Talk:Geography

Merge
I believe this page should be merged with Locations. --ShounenSuki (talk 02:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Getsugakure
Does Getsugakure actually exist? It seems to be the same case as we had with "Soragakure," which turned out to be the Land of the Sky. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Countries
Should the list of countries be the complete list, or remain as it is with only major countries? A complete list at this point would be 40 countries, but it is relatively easy to list it out, it would just be messy to look at in the table of contents. Perhaps just a list without the summaries? Simant (talk) 21:47, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the article name "promises" that it's going to be about the geography, it seems to me that it tells us to list all the geography. We could make (two? big and smaller places/canon and non-canon places.....) different articles. If you or someone else feels up for it. Personally, I have so little knowledge of the countries that I don't feel "fit" to do it myself.
 * If we decide to keep the article as a whole, I say we cut the summaries on the smaller or less important countries (canon-wise). ~swooshes off to bed~ ~Hakinu (talk 22:00, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

personally im a fan of breaking up the lists by weather or not they were anime only, it gives the reader a sense of what is relevant to whatyoshiyuki17

515
I know Kishimoto once said he was bad in physics, and the this chapter just showed us he's not good with geography either. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:24, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lets just consider that a map made by the shinobi, who have bad intel in the ocean... S im A nt 00:26, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * He has been perfectly consistent up to this chapter. Something's up and until the raw is out, I suggest not changing anything. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:28, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, other than obvious scale issues, what problems does it have? ZeroSD (talk) 10:39, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * If the Mangastream version is to be believed, the Land of Rivers is now Valley, Iwagakure changed to Stone, with Rock being a small country beneath it, the country north-east of Fire is the Hot Springs, and between this country and the Country of Lightning is the Mist. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:15, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except for Mist, that seems like unusual but mundane translation choices. 'Hot Springs' is almost certainly Yugakure. The Mist one's the one that leaves me the most curious... like if Mist owns that bit of land maybe. ZeroSD (talk) 14:12, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sho, I'm not good with Geography, but isn't that the order of where the villages and countries are? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 14:19, November 3, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * Mist should be one of the islands south/south-east of Kumo, not the country right next to it. ~SnapperTo 16:18, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks Snap. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 16:19, November 3, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

since the village issue has contradictory information, why not just look for another translation as a reference?yoshiyuki17

One possibility is it's saying that Mist has that land in addition to it's islands. ZeroSD (talk) 04:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it makes the saying that they had no relations with other villages up till now hard as seeing as Kumo and Kohona has had a war before(twice) and unless they went around that land, it will be hard for Kira to not be affected if that map s right. Umishiru (talk) 13:36, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * They've obviously had clashes with other countries before, we've seen them fight on page, and are members of the Five Kage council. I think no relations just means no formal alliances or the like. ZeroSD (talk) 20:50, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys are mistaking this land between the 'Land of Hot springs' and the 'Land of Lighting' as being related to the Land of Water's Hidden Mist village, apparently this 'Land of Mist' has no relation to the Land of Water (host of the Mist village). This would satisfy all prior data concerning the Hidden Mist village and the 'Land of Water'. --Alastar 89 (talk) 02:31, November 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your argument isn't following your own evidence; "Cloud" is used on the map, not "Lightning". ~SnapperTo 05:11, November 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cloud is inside Lightning....Cloud is the villiage, Lightning is the country, i don't see nothing wrong with my logic. I really hope this conflict of data/location gets resolved quickly. --Alastar 89 (talk) 06:39, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sleepy fans translation is out, and it seems like the Valley is ninja village located in the land of rivers. The Stone village is located in the country between Wind and Earth. Their translation also says that it was Kirigakure.--184.14.197.202 (talk) 19:52, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

If this parcel of land is owned by 'Land of water', then that would mean that they gave permission to foreign forces to access their lands to fight other lands, which is crazy since it would mean damage to your land.--Alastar 89 (talk) 07:13, November 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why would it mean that? It's only a small strip of land that could easily by bypassed by sea. Not to mention that Kirigakure has been involved in wars, which might very well both be explained by having mainland territories and explain why they have them in the first place. Not to mention that military access agreements are not unheard of, even when one of the parties is — supposedly — neutral. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:54, November 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I will give you an example of how a country, if it gave military access, would end up. For example purpose lets use Poland, Poland allows Germany (at war with Russia) to use its land to get to Russia...to stay neutral they allow Russia to use its land to get to Germany...where is the battlefield? It is poland. Another, Naruto-verse, example is Amegakure; it was a land between the big nations that were at war, that land was ravaged by said war. The option you give of use of water travel is a good point, which I yield to you. I understand that Kirigakure might of been involved in wars because of the fact that they have land but I am taking my view of Kirigakure being absent from the first three ninja wars based on what was stated in the current Kirigakure article, which maybe changed in the future depending on future data.--Alastar 89 (talk) 05:21, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, the battle would generally end up in Russia, where the Russian troops are. Germany would have no reason to fight on Polish territory, as there are no enemy troops and there is n enemy ground to be conquered. Besides, the battlefield might not have been directly next to Kirigakure territory. What if Yugakure had asked Kumogakure for protection and the Land of Water allowed Kumogakure troops to move through their territory to Yugakure territory. There would be no damage done to Land of Water territory. Amegakure is like a Narutoverse Belgium. It was too small to be able to force the larger territories to actually care for them. The larger countries simply saw Amegakure as nothing more than a defenceless piece of land, rather than a useful ally or a force to be reckoned with.
 * As for Kirigakure being involved with any wars, well, the Great Shinobi World Wars are said to have been fought between the Five Great Nations, which include Kirigakure. They had two Bijū under their control, which were one of the main objectives for these wars. There also must have been some clashes between Kirigakure and the other villages, or else no-one would know anything about them. —ShounenSuki (talk 10:12, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Chapter 515 Clarifications
I finally have the raw and the situation is as confusing as expected. Chapter 515 does indeed place Kirigakure between Yugakure and the Land of Lightning and adds the and  villages to the map as well. At least, I'm assuming they're villages, as all the other names are those of villages.

I'll be updating the map soon. I would appreciate any tips on how to handle this situation, together with the previous issue of the Land of Waves/Land of Whirlpools. —ShounenSuki (talk 10:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * thoughts: wait for the next chapter to mention something that contradicts the contradiction. Perhaps the volume release will fix it? Perhaps the country moved over the past 2 years? Space-time country jutsu... S im A nt 14:20, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at the moment, I'm assuming the spot of land Kiri was placed in in chapter 515 was simply another part of the Land of Water. It may have been called an island nation, but that doesn't completely exclude the possibility of it having some territory on the mainland. If this is true, it is quite likely that the peninsula South-East of the Land of Fire is also a part of the Land of Water. Indeed, it seems like we have to rethink our statement that the Land of Water is the smallest of the Five Shinobi Countries. Including the main island, the various smaller island surrounding it, and the possible mainland territories, the Land of Water would easily rival the other countries in territory size.


 * I vaguely remember it being said that the Land of Rivers had no shinobi village, but I may be mistaken in that. If I am mistaken, there being a Tanigakure in the Land of Rivers is very well possible. I'm sure nothing has ever been mentioned about the country Ishi is located in, so that doesn't cause any problems either. It's a shame Kishimoto-sensei didn't give us the location of the Land of Woods, though.


 * My biggest concern at the moment is the Whirlpool/Waves thing. I'm very hesitant to simply remove any mention of the Land of Waves from the map, but I have so far been unable to find any sources that actually locate this country on the island East of the Land of Fire. The island that, of course, used to hold the Land of Whirlpools. Unfortunately, that is about the only place it could be located. Of course it is still very well possible that the name of the country changed, but once again there is no evidence of this. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:02, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * The version i'm looking at only uses hidden village names; i.e. leaf, sand, stone, cloud. so it makes sense to me that if the area between land of lightning and village hidden in hot springs is part of the land of water, that it would also say "mist" like the rest of the areas on the map, not "water".  It also says "rock" and not "stone" for the area between land of wind and earth.  Could the kanji also mean "rock"?  SkyFlicker (talk) 23:19, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I updated the map, adding the new country data and some other details. Please tell me what you think ^^ I haven't yet changed the Whirlpool/Wave part yet, though. Still not sure about that. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Updated since I posted yesterday, or updated since i left the comment on your page? Either way it looks good!  I know that the literal of the hidden stone village is actually "village hidden in the rocks" yet it is called "hidden stone village".  yet, the literal for the new one is "village hidden in the stones", so should it be called "hidden rock village" to keep up with the backwardsness? or should the Village Hidden in the Rocks (land of earth) now be the Hidden Rock Village, and the new one be the Hidden Stone Village? lol.  I know the land of earths hidden village is known for its rain of rocks (like the kind u pick up and throw), so it seems it should be the Hidden Rock Village.  Perhaps the new village means stones as in building stones, like the huge 3x3 meter kind, so it would be the Hidden Stone Village now?SkyFlicker (talk) 13:34, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Iwagakure, the old village in the Land of Earth, is the Rock. Ishi, the new village in the unnamed country is the Stone. Both are the same kind of material, only stones are smaller than rocks. There is no reason to ever use stone for Iwagakure or rock for Ishigakure and there never has been. Whoever does this is simply being silly. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:58, November 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh look, a chapter 517 brings us new countries. The Land of Frost. And the Land of Hot Springs? So there's a Hot Spring Village and a Hot Spring country huh?--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 22:11, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Land of Hot Springs is probably the country that Yugakure is located in and the Land of Frost might actually be the little piece of land chapter 515 gave to Kirigakure. The kanji for frost and mist are very similar. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:41, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd just wish the man would throw us a bone here. Quit with the countries and the villages...we have enough. At least wait until a databook comes out so we know where everything is..../sadface --TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 22:48, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are we sure it isn't Frost and not mist?Umishiru (talk) 00:20, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Another Possibility is that this 'Land of Frost' nation is a protectorate of the 'Land of Water' nation (which the 'Water' nation protects the 'Frost' nation, which means the 'water' nation has more control). --Alastar 89 (talk) 03:12, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * A protectorate of an isolationist island nation with a win-or-die attitude to war? I hope Kishimoto-sensei isn't going to do something as potentially controversial as that...
 * No, after chapter 517 it has become clear to me that calling that piece of land 'Kiri' was just a mistake. the last few chapters were rushed, so mistakes can creep in easily and even without that situation, this mistake would be an easy one. The kanji for and  resemble each other a lot, especially in handwriting. Even their kana resemble each other. I could easily see Kishimoto-sensei's typesetter confuse the two, especially when he's in a hurry. Chapter 517 made it impossible for that mistake to happen again as we actually saw images of the country, rather than just the name. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:59, November 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation, I am not knowledgable in Kanji; though I had a feeling that something along those lines was the reason for the confusion. It was nice that ch.517 cleared that up... I wish Kishimoto would just publish a world map, with the various countries labeled for us. :)--Alastar 89 (talk) 04:17, December 13, 2010 (UTC)--76.229.211.191 (talk) 04:12, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Land of Sand
wasn't sand only in the dub? and even then wasn't it a fake country created by genno to infiltrate the leaf village?

because i remember the original japanese version just using the village hidden in the sand, instead of a different country altogether.
 * What are you talking about?--Deva 27 (talk) 22:05, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Trap Master arc. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:19, November 20, 2010 (UTC)