Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-25498052-20141004162612/@comment-4503935-20141105000028

Sumandark8600 wrote: Ok guys, lets get this straight. Anyone who says Sasuke's base form can't use Sharingan must also not allow for Naruto to use his Uzumaki stamina or Kurama's chakra. The databooks give Sasuke a 4 in genjutsu and Naruto a 5 in stamina, meaning their base forms incorporate their clan traits/kekkei genkai and for Jinchuuriki; chakra from their Bijuu.

Throughout all of part 2, Sasuke's base form has been superior to Naruto's base form, both of them stating it themselves. Naruto acquiring sage mode was equivalent to Sasuke getting his MS meaning Sasuke was still superior as evidenced by Sasuke killing a ton of Samurai, fighting 3 kage, killing Danzo over and over, fighting Kakashi and then reverting back to his base, stalemating with Naruto whom was fully rested.

Naruto then learnt to control Kurama's chakra in stages until he could fully control it resulting in his Bijuu cloak form with the ability to transform some chakra into Kurama. (We'll have to wait for the databook for an explanation as to why Naruto's Bijuu powers look so unique in comparison to other Jinchuuriki) This in terms of power put him on par with Sasuke with chakra transformation Kurama being roughly equal to Susanoo. Sasuke did however have less chakra than Naruto, exaggerated by Naruto's later usage of sage mode which boosted his power to higher than Sasuke's level. Without sage mode however, they were shown to be equal in power with Sasuke frequently matching Naruto's moves to perform combos.

Also while Naruto fought for roughly half a day longer than Sasuke during the war (the entire war lasted 2 days, Naruto being confined for the majority of the 1st day) he also kept having his chakra replenished by Minato and his Kurama half. Moreover, both Naruto and Sasuke got their chakra replenished and were completely revitalised by Hagoromo, so nobody can really use exhaustion as an excuse for Naruto being stronger than Sasuke.

The powers the 2 of them received from Hagoromo were equal in distribution as stated by Hagoromo so Naruto and Sasuke were again equal. Naruto's lack of a full tailed beast being more than made up by having some chakra from all of the Bijuu.

During their final fight, Naruto initially wasn't going all out, but it was evident that as a result he was suffering heavily with Sasuke dominating the early stages of the fight.

It also seemed obvious from chapter 698 that Sasuke wasn't trying to kill Naruto straight away either as he seemingly wanted to connect to Naruto through another fight to understand him better almost as if he wanted Naruto's opinion on how to effectively make peace. That is what he meant by saying that he'd lost to Naruto, as in he was admitting that Naruto's ideology for peace was better than his own along with his will to not question himself or waver from his nindo (something Sasuke has understandably struggled with given his recent revelations regarding Itachi and speaking to Hashirama), not that he lost the fight as that was clearly a draw.

As for the power ups, Sasuke used his own powers to absorb chakra from the Bijuu, but they were never used like a Jinchuuriki would use them. Infact Sasuke's power up was very comparable to Naruto's as he used sage mode to acquire natural energy of similar amounts to that which Sasuke took from the Bijuu. In short they both used their own powers to steal power from nature. As such again don't say that Naruto received no power up whilst Sasuke did.

Even after Naruto got serious he was still seemingly on the back foot taking massive damage from Sasuke's attacks until he used 2 Kurama shadow clones to help create his ultimate attacks which together cancelled out Indra's arrow relinquishing them both of most of their chakra. Naruto only then survived due to Kurama's chakra acting without Naruto input to defend against Amaterasu.

The 2 then scrapped it out seemingly forever appearing equal in pure Taijutsu and pure strength (with no consideration for speed or chakra due to their fatigue) Naruto then had the handicap of Kurama healing him somewhat and providing him with more chakra. Sasuke however was able to steal half of this using his Rinnegan later resulting in a stalemate where both parties lost their arms. Nowhere does it say that Naruto never went unconscious, it is just implied that due to his healing factor he awoke slightly earlier than Sasuke.

All in all, Sasuke and Naruto are rather even in terms of power, they excel in different areas however which even out and as such are hard to compare depending on how much you value each attribute and truth be told either could win in a fight dependant on how they used their powers. Overall due to his superior intelligence and Genjutsu abilities, Sasuke will more than likely always have a higher base stat total than Naruto, but in his base form he is also faster than Naruto anyway (whom only gains any speed after donning his Kurama cloak) so that seems fair to me.

Finally, anyone who says that plot is a reason for either character being OP or UP doesn't seem to understand that in the Narutoverse their is no plot, it's life, that like saying I'm currently writing this comment because plot no Jutsu, it makes no sense and in pure Naruto terms, demolishes the 4th wall so completely that there's no point in anyone even bothering with anything as anyone can do anything because of plot. No they can't, they can do what they are capable of inside their own universe. Just because I can go out and learn German while unicycling in a onesie doesn't mean I'm ever going to do it.

Sorry for the rant in that last paragraph but it just really irks me when people use plot as an excuse, you're just citing your own ignorance of the concept of a Narutoverse. So how did Naruto win this one, but lose the last fight as the valley of the End?