Forum:Chapter 599- Obito and Tobi

So, even though this disappoints some of us (there's a first time for everything), we need to decide how we're going to proceed with the whole Obito being behind that mask. Thankfully the articles have been locked, but the talk pages will be flooded soon and I'm thoroughly confused as how to proceed with things.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I say, Just combine both Tobi and Obito pages... Done deal.. no big deal.


 * The same we did with Madara and Tobi. The only difference here is, instead of splitting, we have to merge now :\ (I know how it feels, I was betting for Madara's Living Clone with a consciousness :\) akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 12:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

akz! is right... We have to merge them :\


 * I think that we should wait until the next chapter. They will be probably explain everything about his story and we will easy merge both article knowing his background. Until that moment both articles should be locked and noone should edit them.GothicWarrior  (Dyskusja)  12:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Given what is revealed, we have little option other than to merge the two character articles, so I don't believe there is any need to discuss that further. However, thankfully Tobi is still a unique name that is only identifiable to the masked Obito, so there shouldn't be any need to change all instances of Tobi to Obito at least for those before the reveal (although I guess some editors will attempt to do so, given what happened with the tailed beasts). The only exceptions to this, as far as I see, are Obito's own article and respective ability pages. Blackstar1 (talk) 12:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Probably we should wait till next week. 12:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * At least we can have a header which says - "WE AWARE OF TOBI BEING OBITO UCHIHA, AND DISCUSSION IS GOING ON WHETHER THE ARTICLES MUST BE MERGED NOW OR WE SHOULD WAIT TILL THE NEXT CHAPTER IS OUT, SO DON'T FLOOD THE TALKPAGES AND USE THE EXISTING ONES, THANK YOU." akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 12:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Thinking about the whole merger thing, I feel compelled to say wait because this regrettably wasn't one of those chapters where we were told a lot, 3 words total actually. I was also wondering if someone would merge the articles on a sandbox page for example so we can see how it will look in a similar manner to what Ulti and Snapper did when they separated Tobi and Madara.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

How about you just move Tobi's background (sans Madara/Akatsuki details) to Obito's page?Malcasablanca (talk) 12:46, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I believe we should probably use Beta pages for anything we're doing before touching the actual articles. That is of course if the majority of the community decides to merge without waiting.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I am for waiting a week (or for few weeks), till the entire picture is clear. 12:52, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I also think waiting for some explanations would be the appropriate procedure. Maybe it is not HIM totally but a controlled Zetsu body made with him or some other theories we all might already know.. Khaliszt (talk) 12:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

My bet: Obito's corpse "revived" with Zetsu merged and controlled by the "real/true" Tobi from the shadows with his Outer Path/chakra rods, thus this one being a puppet. There are just too many options, we should wait because it's not yet 100% confirmed, even though the guy battling Naruto and staff sure is "Obito" --Elveonora (talk) 13:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

We should wait until it's made even clearer, considering how often details about Tobi have been changed or revealed as lies. TricksterKing (talk) 13:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

So we agreed on it (I hope), waiting for future explanations is the best choice, could be Obito, again from the Tobi talk-page, my guess is it's Zetsu's Parasitic clone. I'm not going to make a forum-like speech here so that's all from me.

Forgot to sign Yumeyo-yuki (talk) 13:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah and this all makes me ask myself: So, if Tobi had such a great eyes collection (so he has been close to many, maaaany dead uchiha corpses) why would he chose OBITO'S one? It all sounds so weird.. and being so young why would he know Madara or how did he give a Rinnegan to Nagato (who was a kid at the times of young Jiraiya). It's all so weird.. Khaliszt (talk) 13:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * While I agree that this process certainly shouldn't be rushed and that the use of a sandbox page is necessary, if only to highlight any potential issues, I don't believe it should be postponed much beyond a week if the situation remains the same in upcoming chapters. As long as Tobi and Obito are stated to be one and the same, the reason for them being so is largely irrelevant to whether the articles should or shouldn't be merged. The only reveal that would effect that issue, is if this Obito was something else other than the original (e.g. clone or otherwise), but such theories are currently just unfounded speculation and I don't think we should agree to an indefinite halt on just these alone.


 * Hopefully the information in the next chapter should be much more telling, so waiting a week shouldn't do any harm, just so long as we don't postpone this longer than necessary simply because many find Obito being Tobi a bitter and hard pill to swallow. Blackstar1 (talk) 13:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Can't wait for Omni sensei's word on this :/--Elveonora (talk) 13:28, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

There was absolutely no chance, Tobi is Obito. There are too many reasons, why it doesn't make any sense. Whatever, I really want to know, what's happening next.


 * I say we should just merge the articles since it's pretty much confirmed. Stalling is only going to cause acrimony for us and a whole load of issues. =.= --Speysider Talk Page 13:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with a merger senpai... the only confirmation there is the last page, and Kishi might troll us all.--Elveonora (talk) 14:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should merge the pages together it's been revealed that Tobi is Obito so it should be merged as soon as possible


 * Well, I'm not a Naruto fan anymore.. :\ It sucks.. The next chapter might be my last Naruto chapter... Hope it's just the body.... We should wait till next chapter..."Still HOPING" akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 14:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Why the fuck do people take it as confirmed? Yes, yes... the body there sure looks like Obito's, I say wait, details about to be revealed in chapter 600... till then, let Obito sleep under the boulders--Elveonora (talk) 14:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

This may be somewhat off topic, but there is a minor plot hole presented in the chapter, how was Kakashi taking part in the Chūnin exams with Obito and Rin? According to this wiki he was a Chūnin before they even graduated from the academy. Terrios (talk)

Kishi smokes a lot of weed and fucks up the canon/story, proof: made Tobi Obito--Elveonora (talk) 14:15, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a plot twist — yeah. I do agree on merging but waiting on the next chapter is better. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 14:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I hope there's more to it, or else this just proves to me that Kishimoto's writing ability is pure ass. That being said I would make a sandbox to merge the two articles, however my internet is less than steller atm and I am forced to use the school libary to even read and post.
 * Also, language Elveonora. Not sure when you decided to drop your language filter, but I would suggest you pick it back up.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Guys wait I found this interview that Kishi revealed that Tobi isnt actually Obito! KazeKitsune (talk) 14:25, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

That interview is false man, why would a worker of Viz Media (And actually VIZ MEDIA XD japanese mangakas only do interviews to their publishing companies, i.e. Shueisha) filter something and reveal his name so happily? And more important, why would Kishimoto reveal everything is going to happen next to some random guys (even if they weren't random)? That is totally false. On other hand, I hope, ultimate3, that this doesn't end like that, all this needs much more explanations, for god's sake! Otherwise Kishi would have dropped his mangaka level to the subways.. Khaliszt (talk) 14:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I say we wait until next week. Kakashi actually asked if Tobi is Obito and until he gets a clear answer on this, we're just going to wait and do nothing at all. I mean, it's just a week, that's not much compared to the years we had to wait for Tobi to lift is mask. We and the readers can wait another week. Seelentau 愛議 14:36, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Mayhaps we should've had a general sandbox for the wikia from a long time ago but I was hoping you, Snaps (no Snaps) or BlackStar would be able to do the major parts and you could leave the smaller stuff to the rest of the editors. I'm not sure why, but I think you guys would be able to do it properly. I also want to wait, 600 is a nice round number lol. In the meantime, we'll have a sandbox people can fool around in.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's dead. His body is just being controlled by the evil spirit known as Tobi. :/ -- The Goblin  14:43, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ignoriong Aged Goblin, I'm more worried about what to do about the millions of articles that reference Tobi. The Horde will decend on us in a matter of minutes to change every instance of his name to Obito. If we are going to wait, what are we going to do about this?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:44, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think we should wait. Waiting because a few people refuse to believe it is really going to cause a major issue. We should just start changing everything from Tobi to Obito and be done with it.
 * @Aged Goblin: That's not going to help. --Speysider Talk Page 14:47, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

My language filter is on, no worries... I'm 100% calm. We either: You decide, lol.--Elveonora (talk) 14:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) stop reading the manga further and move on with our lives
 * 2) change Tobi to Obito
 * 3) lock the pages

We can just start creating a merged article at Obito Uchiha/Merge or something similar. 14:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

edit conflict The pages are locked so we're good on that front. Whatever issue it causes is not our concern, we have to choose a plan of action and work with it. As for the Tobi uses, Ulti, I'm all for Tobi redirecting to Obito and we let it at that. With the exception of some articles such as jutsu pages etc. I've never had a problem with calling people monikers. That article is fine Supreme.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * EDIT CONFLICT: @Salil: Good idea, so when will they start it? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 14:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Why're ya'll so fast to change anything? In the end, Tobi isn't Obito and you'd have to correct your mistakes again. What's wrong with a little patience? Seelentau 愛議 15:01, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I honestly think both sections should be locked till the next chapter comes out and more info is revealed. Otherwise you're gonna have an Edit War as I like to call it on our hands. Just because they think it's Obito, doesn't mean it is him, for all we know it could probably be an illusion/clone are something else entirely. Not saying it is but in the Naruto World crazier things have happened. I say wait till more info. --Michma12 (talk) 15:02, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Seelentau: The manga confirms it's Obito, why are people like you so insistent not to do anything when it's blatantly obvious Tobi = Obito ?
 * @Michma: The pages were already locked but see my message to Seelentau. Tobi = Obito, we don't need a big discussion saying he isn't as Kishi has quite clearly made his intentions known. --Speysider Talk Page 15:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

@Spey, are you Kishi? Just saying that just like Tobi was Yagura, he might be Obito in a similar manner--Elveonora (talk) 15:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The manga confirms what Tobi looks like under his mask. Kakashi even asks if he's Obito, why can't we wait for a "yes" or "no" by Tobi? I'm not against moving everything, but imagine next week Tobi says no and you'd have to move everything again. Seelentau 愛議 15:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

@Seelantau: We have something called as Page history. 15:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's still work that can easily be avoided by having patience for another week. We waited a long time now, what's wrong with waiting just another week? Wasn't it the same with Madara/Tobi? Seelentau 愛議 15:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

And as it is, the pages are locked and we can't edit them. 15:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's bigger than page history UltimateSupreme. Page History will only matter for the two main articles, the issue is the dozens of other articles a merge like this will effect. At that point it just gets stupid and time consuming.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Been reading these discussions from my phone. Decided I wanted to weigh in. Now, guys (particularly those wanting to wait yet another week), the chapter was called "Uchiha Obito". It covered Obito's flashbacks followed by a panel of Obito's face under the mask. Kakashi was not asking Tobi if he was Obito, he was in shock. "You're Obito?!" is more of a shocked reaction rather than a question. If Kishi named a chapter Obito, called Tobi Obito, and even showed Tobi's face to be Obito, then I hate to tell ya, but next week he's not gonna come in and say "lol nope he was someone else". Its just not gonna happen. Plus, after big revelations like this, Kishi likes to switch the scene for a month, so we may not get any answers next week. For all we know, next week the scene will switch back to Sasuke and Orochimaru and we won't see Obito, Naruto, Kakashi, Guy, and Bee's battle for another month. The facts are there. No one had a problem splitting the articles the second Tobi was revealed to have not been Madara. I see a double standard here. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I never said to do that. 15:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The story had gone downhill since Nagato has revived those he had killed... the weirdo Ten-Tails subplot and now this was a nail in the coffin. I honestly doubt him being Obito for a reason: this one will take more than 10 chapters to fucking explain, so either Kishi is a troll or "bye bye" by the most of Naruto fandom and the rest that stays, enjoy your flashbacks--Elveonora (talk) 15:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Tailed Fox, I thought the flashback was Kakashi's memories and "ur Obito?" was the "narrator's" note/question, not Kakashi's--Elveonora (talk) 15:28, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you vastly underestimate who will actually leave. Besides, that's not what we're here to discuss. It has been confirmed in the manga that Tobi is Obito. This wiki is one of facts, not "Well, a lot of fans don't want Obito so it can't be Obito." Last I checked, Kishimoto was still writing this manga. He said in his interview Tobi's identity would be revealed within weeks. A month later, here we are. Obito Uchiha. Its not gonna turn out to be anyone else. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 15:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * EDIT: It never says whose flashbacks it is, but Kakashi wasn't there for a few of the memories, so one can assume they are Obito's. Secondly, the Narorator's comments say "It's revealed! His name is Obito!" but Kakashi says "You're... Obito?!" on the last page. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 15:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, couple issues with this chapter. Number one during the flash back obito is shown standing in front of Hokage Rock (the rock with all the faces of the hokage). Minato is shown as the being 4th Hokage, yet Minato did not become the 4th Hokage until after the 3rd Shinobi War ended, or in other words after obito's supposed death. #2 Not really so much an issue with this chapter, but another somewhat related plot hole. In Naruto Shippuden episodes 127-128:Tales of a Gutsy Ninja: Jiraiya Ninja Scroll Part 1 and Part 2, it states that Jiraiya met nagato, yahiko, and konan during the THIRD SHINOBI WAR, the narrator even states at the end of part two immediately after leaving nagato, yahiko, and konan- "When Jiraiya returned to the village, the Third Great Ninja War continued." Also, later on in the episode it says the war ended when Minato destroyed the bridge of Kannabi. My point is that according to this website and another of other sources Jiraiya trained nagato during the second shinobi war. According to these episodes though, that simply is not the case. It was definitely during the Third Great Shinobi War. Which mean the 3rd great shinobi war is the same war hanzo fought in, as well as the same war Tsunade, Orochimaru, and Jiraiya became known as the legendary Sannin. Now the war had to go on for many years after jiraiya trained nagato. Jiraiya trained nagato for about 3 years. All the while the 3rd great shinobi war raged on. It was also sometime after this that Tsdunades lover was killed in battle. My point is all of the grief that led to the various bad guys downfall occurred during the 3rd great shinobi War, not the second. When nagato killed yahiko the war was still going on too. And the war ended very shortly after obito's supposed death. Which would have been well after the Akatsuki was formed, therefore obito did not give yahiko the idea to start the akatsuki. he also did not give nagato the rinnegan. he lied about this. but perhaps it was the real madara uchiha that did. maybe with the same technique itachi used to give sasuke the mangeyko. Somehow Madara Uchiha is the one who is responsible for twisting both nagato and obito. And it happened during the the 3rd great shinobi war. Madara also somehow died, I believe his death has something to do with the 3 tails and yagura. THe 3 tails was removed from yagura for some reason. and somehow ended up killing madara. I believe madara met obito first and then nagato. madara likely created zetsu from the 1st hokages cells with his rinnegan, the same way the sage of the sixths paths created the tailed beasts. madara also healed found and healed obito. as well as trained him. the story about why obito is evil, and also how he became so powerful relatively quickly, considering that the attack on konoha was soon after the end of the 3rd great shinobi war is unclear. It was also madara who met kisame for the first time when he was with yagura. I believe kisame was also well aware that tobi was not madara

Actually Tobi already had Obito's eye when he attacked Konoha in the past.. Everything is so weird and the timeline incoherences make this impossible unless there is an explanation on WHY. Maybe it is where that "izuna" theory comes up. Who knows, i think we have to wait.. but the articles should be changed anyway Khaliszt (talk) 15:40, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ignoring the block of text about an anime mistake, the whole timeline is really screwed up now. This is nothing a simple page moving can solve, that's why we should wait. Also, the narrator's words are worthless, they're even left out in the tankobon Seelentau 愛議 15:42, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, but what is the problem to wait a week to be sure and write more info surely correct, rather than write now and edit after... I really don't understand why all these problems and hate... more I'm sure that the admins are more professional and serious than to be considered people that lock the pages just because they don't like what happens in the manga...

Before this chapter I thought that Tobi was Izuna, but also in that case, personally if the wikia was just for my use, I will wait at least next week to edit. It's exactly the same reasoning that it's done when a character die, at the moment we are not able to know if it's effectively dead or eventually is just a fatal wound, so for a week in his profile it's written incapacited... --82.53.58.23 (talk) 15:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

where is it ever mentioned that nagato met jiraiya during the second shinobi war anyways? perhaps that is just an error on this website. it seems like a lot of fans use this site for clarification. but that has to be wrong. it is not a mistake in the anime. jiraiya, tsunade, and orochimaru never fought in the second shinobi war. in fact i believe the only time that the second shinobi war is even mentioned is during danzo's flashback when he was teamed up with Kagami Uchiha, Torifu Akimichi, Hiruzen, Koharu Utatane, Homura Mitokado under the leadership of the second hokage. I'm positive that was the second shinobi war. well before jiraiya was even born.


 * It's not an error, it's been mentioned a lot of times in the series. Also, please sign your posts. --Speysider Talk Page 15:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

A last thing, the manga of Naruto is not perfect but indipendentely by the disrespect which often Kishimoto is a victim in the forums, actually he is very much talented and skilled in comparison the message which usually transpares..Someone thinks really that for the mistery of Obito, one of the main plot device of the story together with the Kyuubi's attack and the death of the clan Uchiha (both linked to him) Kishimoto has not thought of a valide explanation, considering everything he has written until now? Kishimoto is the same person that continued to talk about the past of Itachi Uchiha also 200 chapters after his death, to make his act believable... Contrarily to other that talk already about plot holes, I hope to not be the one that on the contrary is excited for this twist apparently impossible, and just for this reason is curious to see the explanation of the author.--82.53.58.23 (talk) 15:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I admit that I'm angry (ok) and biased... not to mention all "facepalm" cause the story sucks now even more.
 * 1) Kakashi to Sasuke: "I don't want to kill you"
 * 2) Sasuke to Kakashi: "I want to kill you so badly I can taste it, Kakashi"
 * 3) Kakashi's thoughts: "Madara (Obito, lolz) has corrupted him so much"
 * 4) Kakashi to Sasuke: "No matter how far he fell, The Third always looked upon Orochimaru with affection"
 * 5) Sasuke to Kakashi: "You and The Third will have plenty to talk about when you join him!"

[later...]

--Elveonora (talk) 16:01, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Kakashi to Tobi: "Obito, is that you???!!!???!!!???!!!???"
 * 2) Obitard: "lulz, you blind from Kamui already?"
 * 3) Kakashi: "Why... WHY!!!??? you used to be a nice guy"
 * 4) Obitard: "I dunno, lol. Kishi been smoking too much crack, he has lost it..."
 * 5) Kakashi: "Oh, ok... tell me more, sounds like a cool story"
 * 6) Obitard: "lulz, ya know. Zetsu saved me from under da' boulers and repaired me. Got possessed by a part of Maradar's soul, I grew into a mature man in a year, had gotten overpowered and killed our sensei for LULZ"
 * 7) Kakashi: "you have also corrupted Sasuke"
 * 8) Obitard: "right, he ain't your student anymore"
 * 9) Kakashi: "What now?"
 * 10) Obitard: "You see, it's a part of my plan, to become complete and one with everyone. So now I just take over ur body to get both my eyes, then take over Sasuke's, so it's all one big hell of a love triangle"

What about readers who didn't catch up to the current chapters already? Or noobs who will start reading Naruto from the beginning? They will probably just check out some information about Obito and BAMM, everything is spoiled. Keep both articles seperated and hide spoiler information redundantly in both. Buzz-steve (talk) 16:03, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

@Elveonora: Splendid. But we shouldn't be going so much off-topic. 16:06, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not a reason to keep them separate. If new information is revealed, it is added. There are clear warnings all around this wiki that it is full of spoilers, so anyone coming here is just asking to get the story spoiled. --Speysider Talk Page 16:06, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry but, are you guys being serious here? I'll take what I already said in the talk page of Tobi and say it again. When Madara was revived, we didn't "wait a week" to see if it was just his body, did we? We didn't "wait a week" to see if Tobi was the living consciousness of Madara. Case and point? When Madara popped up on the last panel, we split the articles as soon as we could. I could care less what people think of the Obito theory. We're an unbiased wikia site and wikipedia has already gone ahead and listed Tobi as Obito. Whatever you may think of the theory means nothing. What we know is the chapter is called Obito Uchiha, and the man behind the mask was, in some way shape or form, Obito. It's not like I'm 100% happy about it either, but that's Kishimoto's decision, and if we're going to keep our reputation as unbiased and legitimate, then we need to not be biased! Merge the articles. If he turns out to only be Obito's body [which is ridiculous, since you'd basically be saying. HE'S OBITO! owait, he isn't. Kishi doesn't write that way.] then split the articles again. It won't be easy, but it's what we have to do. I can't even begin to describe how ridiculous this denial is, especially on the saiyan island forums. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

It's really hard to have the patience to wait another week before to merge pages or jump to the conclusions and say what suck and what is good? Everyone has own opinions, but at least to give the time to the author to tell us his story? It's in moments like these that I remember like the manga are not done to be read one chapter at the time...--JK88 (talk) 16:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)