Talk:Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi

Debut
Isn't it the same stuff as when he murdered WZ?--Elveonora (talk) 13:23, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. Any instance of Susanoo using Enton would essentially fall under this technique, right? SaiST (talk) 13:25, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but this time he called it "Susanoo Kagutsuchi"..something which he didn't really do before.. 13:28, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just because he didn't name it initially doesn't make it not the technique. Many techniques appeared first and were named later on--Elveonora (talk) 13:32, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

I have some doubts about the technique, first, why in the mangastream the technique's translation is Fire Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi? Second, Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama originates from susanoo's palm, and by the way that Tobirama talked about Kagutsuchi, it seems like he saw some one using that in the past. So, that been said, My doubt is if this is a Fire Release technique or a Blaze Release technique. I know that in the manga is illustrated with black flames. But that translation threw me off. --Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:34, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mistranslation, wait for raws, scanlators did the same mistake chapter or so back as well. Also Enton is still Katon, there's simply something more it it that somehow makes it a new "release" --Elveonora (talk) 13:36, June 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Enton is technically Katon but Katon doesn't produce Black Flames. 13:38, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes it is a Blaze Release, about the debut, is the same technique, but they released the name in this chapter, i think is the same technique that Sasuke used earlier. --Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:52, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Shouldn't we use picture from debut?--Elveonora (talk) 19:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Article Name
If it's "Enton: Susanoo no Kagutsuchi", would Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi of Susanoo sound more appropriate? SaiST (talk) 22:51, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the article's name doesn't sounds right, but dont know if that would be the best name for the article too. --Dan.Faulkner (talk) 23:14, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's like Totsuka no Tsurugi is translated as Sword of Totsuka. Calling it Kagutsuchi of Susanoo also makes it a clearer example of Kagutsuchi being used through Susanoo. SaiST (talk) 23:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

Mabye, we should call it [and im going to say it in english tv version] Inferno Style Susanoo Arrow that sounds much better to me.74.89.213.43 (talk) 23:47, June 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * That... Doesn't really conform to the standards of this wiki. SaiST (talk) 23:59, June 12, 2013 (UTC)

It's because Enton: Susanoo no Kagutsuchi and litteral english Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi, it lack's something, i think Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi of Susanoo is right. --Dan.Faulkner (talk) 00:04, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry just trying to help.74.89.213.43 (talk) 00:33, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the name being changed to "Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi of Susanoo." Although that might mess up the literal English translation... "Blaze Release: Added Tool Earth Lord of with the ability to help by all means"? lol. Or maybe in that situation, we can just look the other way and make the name change while keeping the translation. General Awesomo 10:38, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think we should hold of moving this technique for now. I don't see any raw or spoiler script available, telling us how this technique is written. There can be a "no" in it or not, but we don't know. I don't even know why a transliteration was added to the article. It's pointless to move it now because depending on how the technique is written, we'd just have to move it again. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:01, June 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, man... Nevermind then! I thought the Kanji and Romani were only there because somebody saw raw scans or a script. Wouldn't have brought this up otherwise. SaiST (talk) 18:32, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Definition
So, what exactly should we define as this technique? It can't simply be using Kagutsuchi while having Susanoo on, because Sasuke already did that when he and Itachi fought Kabuto, and he called it just regular Kagutsuchi at the time. Maybe it's SK when it's used with an arrow? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:40, June 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * He never used an arrow or a sword of Kagutsuchi in his regular Susanoo mode, though. So that's what I think it should be defined as. Any instance of Susanoo using Kagutsuchi uniquely would probably fall under this technique. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 02:01, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Uh, he has, I just mentioned it above. When he and Itachi are fighting Sage Kabuto, Sasuke uses it to cut through some barriers Kabuto had set, either Shikotsumyaku bones or Kidomaru's web techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:10, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe this is a retcon? You think? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 02:36, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but before considering that, I'm trying to see if there's any particular combination of traits that can define this technique that doesn't go against anything that has been previously established. I can see use of the flames (arrow/sword) and Susanoo development stage. If there are no previous instances of Susanoo using Amaterasu arrows having another name, I think that particular combination can be considered this technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:01, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought I had a clear idea in my head but now I'm not too sure. Maybe it's the use Amaterasu of offensive weapons i.e he coats his weapons in the flames increasing their offensive abilities which would mean we saw this technique when Sasuke used the arrow to "kill" White Zetsu. I think that would be our safest bet and then of course slapping a misleading info tag on the article to cover our bases.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:14, June 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Imo, Blaze Release: Kagatsuchi used from the Amaterasu orb held by Susanoo is this technique, why being used directly from the eyes is the standard one and yes, I noticed what you wrote above about Kabuto fight stuff, he might have used it from eyes then not the orb--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. We need to come to a decision on how to word the article.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:59, June 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * While I believe that any instance of Sasuke's Susanoo manipulating Enton would fall under this technique, it may be more appropriate at this point to leave it at the example of the Enton arrows... At least, until we see another example with this title. SaiST (talk) 18:15, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

We should use logic. It's name is "SUSANOO Kagatsuchi, thus we should treat it as that, Kagatsuchi done with Susanoo. If it were just allows, the name would be "Susanoo Bow: Kagatsuchi" or something I guess--Elveonora (talk) 18:23, June 14, 2013 (UTC)

Small issue, but I don't think Sasuke's using the Enton blades as arrows, or vice-versa. When Sasuke cuts through the barricade with his Susanoo, you can see the curvature on the tip of his Enton weapon, resembling a katana. When he brings it back to his bow, the shape becomes that of an arrow; pointed end 'n all. SaiST (talk) 11:35, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Kagatsuchi
didn't he call it kagatsuchi when he used it with his susanoo to cut through kabuto's spider web? in my opinion, this shouldn't be a separate technique. It's like flash of lightning pillar one chapter it's raigen and another chapter it's raiton, but you don't see them being called different techniques.--64.126.41.224 (talk) 16:40, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * The entire Blaze Release topic is a murky mess. I already brought up that in a previous section. The fact Susanoo has several development stages can be used to make a distinction between the two until more clarifying information is available. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:43, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Shield of Black Flames
Ok soo i'm wondering if we shouldn't add the Shield of Black Flames as a part of this technique. It's technically unnamed, and it's a combination of the Susanoo and the Kagutsuchi. Darksusanoo (talk) 19:10, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, we established that this is stuff being done with the orb held by susanoo hand, shield of black flames came from his eyes--Elveonora (talk) 19:20, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Utilizing Fire Release in a Blaze Release Jutsu?
It seems to be a bit contradictory in the descriptions on this page. The article is named "Blaze Release: Susanoo Kagutsuchi", but the actual text within the article labels the flames as those of Fire Release, both in the description of its nature and in the description of the Jutsu itself. Should we edit that part of the article so as to have it all lead into Blaze Release? Considering the link to Kagutsuchi leaves a certain impression for it.GZilla311 (talk) 22:56, December 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Blaze Release most likely is not an advanced nature. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:59, December 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Excluding "Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi" (because that's a databook name), should we remove the prefix "Blaze Release" from all techniques with it (unless they're specified that way in the databooks?)? ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 23:07, December 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Uh, why would we do that? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:09, December 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * TU3 did that here in this edit... I'm guessing no. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 23:11, December 1, 2014 (UTC)