Talk:Tsukuyomi

The article name is Tsukiyomi and that is what was in the article. 71.229.98.95 changed this to Tsukuyomi in this diff. Can someone verify this? ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Nov 27, 2007 @ 04:17 (UTC)
 * Nothing to worry about. Infact that IP caught a mistake. Its is spelled Tsukuyomi, but was spelled wrong here. I redirected it to its actual article.--TheUltimate3 05:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Sasuke and Tsukuyomi?
Has it been confirmed that Sasuke can use the Tsukuyomi? In many other pages, it continously says "presumably". This is just out of curiosity, and I would like to know. Thanks for those who help me out with this. 190.35.102.204 23:31, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Sasuke never used tsukuyomi. And where did the info came that all all mangekyo sharingan can use tsukuyomi isn`t tsukuyomi a special ablility only possesed by itachi with his mangekyo?--Kevinhomaster 07:21, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought that it was just Itachi because he was a very strong ninja, especially in the area of Genjutsu, that could use it. Of course I could be wrong...if anyone finds the answer it would be helpful if they could tell me. THANKS! Haku711 13:50, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Well Sasuke was shown to use a Mangekyo Sharingan genjutsu on at least one occassion. Judging from the reversed colors, it was Tsukuyomi, but that is not certain.

Slowing Down
Is it possible for the Tsukuyomi to slow down the opponent. Look at Naruto Ultimate ninja Storm videos. Please could someone answer? Malkhawam HM 07:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC).

Tsukuyomi has been shown to but the victim in a very real and very painful Genjutsu. If it is slowing someone down, it is because their mind is getting screwed beyond reason. It doesn't actually slow anyone down.--TheUltimate3 12:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Would this Slowing Down happen in the real world. Malkhawam HM 13:00, 20 November 2008 (UTC).


 * No. Because Tsukuyomi doesn't actually slow you down. It's a genjutsu that effects the brain, not the body.--TheUltimate3 13:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Would the opponent slow down in the real world (at least a little) because of the genjutsu effects on the brain? Malkhawam HM 13:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC).


 * If someone is running at top speed at the user, and the user uses Tsukuyomi, the victim will stop in his tracks as he will suddenly find himself in the genjutsu. If he doesn't slow down, he will fall straight to the ground as his mind is no longer "in" his body but within the genjutsu. He will in no way shape or form, slow down like you see in the Ninja Storm games.--TheUltimate3 13:17, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you have seen Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm videos and shows it would seem like in the other world for tsukuyomi it would slow down the user (but mostly for Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm and look when itachi does his awakening mode for Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm he would clearly be seen using the technique). Am I right? Malkhawam HM 13:26, 20 November 2008 (UTC).

It slows down the victims perception of time, by the amount the user wants it. It doesn't however actually slow the victim down.--TheUltimate3 13:29, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

If you have seen Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm videos Itachi could be seen using Tsukuyomi (not an ougi) the taunt and slow down the opponent (even though i don't know if that is the real world). So do you go an answer? Malkhawam HM 13:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC).


 * Sigh* You are still not getting the difference between canon (manga/anime as this wiki is concerned) and non-canon (movies and games). I've been giving you an answer which you have been ignoring so I am going to say this one last time: Tsukuyomi does NOT slow the person down. If they are running at top speed, and they get it by the Tsukuyomi, they will still be running at top speed when it dissipates. The slow down mechanic which you are hopping on constantly is a GAME-PLAY MECHANIC that exists because a instantaneous, perception destroying genjutsu can not actually function in a game in anything other than a cut scene, and even then video games tend to throw the physics of techniques out the window. So again for the last time, Tsukuyomi does not slow the person down, no matter what you see it can do in the video games.--TheUltimate3 13:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

He's right. It's just something that they added in to make the game more fun. Like in the game if you use Anko's special jutsu,the one where snakes wrap around you and your opponent, you won't take any damage. But, in the real world, it's a suicide technique that kills you and your opponent. BTW How did she survive? I am missing that information. Could someone please fill me in? THANKS! Haku711 13:54, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are refering to how she survived when she used it in the manga/anime, she never completed the jutsu, as Orochimaru warned her that the Orochimaru she was going to kill was a clone (a shadow clone in the manga, a earth/mud clone in the anime). Jacce 14:10, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks I've been missing that info for a while! I didn't know she could just stop it like that... COOL! Anyway thanks againHaku711 14:15, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * She haden't come that far, merly grabbing Orochimaru's hand and forming the seal. Jacce 14:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

madara
shouldn't we put Madara as a user, because Itachi said that Madar could use all four Mangekyo techniques?
 * It was a mistranslation, Itachi was talking about Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. Jacce | Talk 19:58, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Madara says that he will use the Infinite Tsukuyomi, so should we put him down as a user? Yatanogarasu 21:51, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Wants to be a user ≠ user. ~SnapperTo 05:00, October 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Wants to be a user of infinate tysukyuomi, not original, it seems as every person with MS has Tysukyomi, Madara would probably have to have the technique if he wanted to use infinite tysukyomi because just becoming a Jinchuuriki does not give his MS Tysukuomi but would give him the power to be able to cast it on the moon so everyone would be under his genjutsu. So in short he wants to be able to use Infinite MS, but would require the techique (Tysukuomi) before hand to be able to use the Infinate MS. Hidan13 (talk) 16:41, October 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably has it ≠ has it. ~SnapperTo 17:45, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Because this revert war can go as long as I can make it....
...we're gonna discuss. As of now, we know the requirements to use Susanoo is to first be able to use Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. We've seen Sasuke use Amaterasu and go to town with Susanoo, and we've seen him use a genjutsu that looked exactly like Tsukuyomi against Killer Bee, but he didn't say it's name. So logic tells that Sasuke can indeed use Tsukuyomi. Thoughts, translations to help with this. Ect, ect.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:39, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Talk:Sasuke Uchiha. A similar argument, where it was decided that he can use Tsukuyomi as well--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 20:47, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * We can't dogmatically assume that Sasuke can use Tsukuyomi because he can use the other two MS techniques. For all we know, there's a reason Kishi never stated he used Tsukuyomi. It's possibly the reason Susanoo is imperfect. Tsukuyomi is the only MS technique Sasuke has never been referred to as using, added to the fact that theories stated in the manga have been - more than once - later proven to be false. Take the example I stated earlier; Itachi stated that one must kill their best friend in order to achieve the MS, but Kakashi had no one close to him and achieved it, which strongly suggests that Itachi's - and in effect, Madara's - belief was false (Sasuke's case is still debatable). My point being, we have no surefire concrete basis for undeniably believing that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 20:50, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Except by definition of Susanoo, the user must have already known Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Using what we know, Sasuke must be able to use Tsukuyomi.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:53, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Except the statement you're referring to was stated in-universe (meaning it is what the characters believe, not necessarily what's confirmed). By definition, a user must kill their best friend to receive the Mangekyou Sharingan. Remember that? And the last point, Sasuke has still never stated, nor has it been stated by anyone else, in-universe or out, that he can or has ever used Tsukuyomi. Anything more is - by definition - speculation. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 20:57, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait, you're saying what is stated in the story to be speculation because it has a chance to be changed? Is that your argument? Because that is extremely flimsy at best.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:17, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * (sigh) No, no, no. I'm saying something that is officially unconfirmed and speculative shouldn't be accepted and stated as fact as it can be changed. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 21:20, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * And yet, it is not "officially unconfirmed" and "speculative" because we were told (I believe it was in the databook, because that is what our databook translator said in the discussion AlienGamer posted above) the user of Susanoo must master Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Therefore, Sasuke using Susanoo means he must, until proven otherwise, use Tsukuyomi.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:25, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa! Wait a minute: "it is not "officially unconfirmed" and "speculative" because we were told (I believe it was in the databook, because that is what our databook translator said in the discussion AlienGamer posted above) the user of Susanoo must master Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi." If it was stated in a databook, you should have said so sooner. Post a scan of the page as proof, because I read that conversation, and I didn't see one databook reference. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 21:31, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Found a link to mangahelpers via ShounenSuki. Read Susanoo, and that was good enough for me. Feel free to add Sasuke's name back. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 21:38, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * o.O O.o wha? That's it?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:40, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * (quote)"The two doujutsu that only those who have activated the "Mangekyou Sharingan" are permitted to use "Amaterasu²," denoting the "light of the material world" and "Tsukuyomi³," symbolising the "darkness of the spiritual world" Only those who have activated the "Mangekyou Sharingan" -the heavenly eyes that see without obstruction the truth of all of creation- are permitted to use these two doujutsu. Dwelling only in those who have grasped both of these technique is the power of a tempestuous god... that is "Susanoo"."(end quote)
 * Yep, that's it. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 21:44, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

How do we know it is unique to the Uchiha clan?

ShieldmaidenI live by honor and die like a warrior 13:38, December 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Because the Mangekyō Sharingan is needed to use it. Jacce | Talk 13:47, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

"Red moon" reference
Just where exactly in the [Black and white] manga was it shown? I saw no such red moon when Itachi used it in part one, and the databook makes no mention of a red moon. If anyone did and insist on keeping that part in article without clarifying it as part of anime [which it is to begin with], I'd like you to specifically reference it in the manga to avoid any further confusion. As you'll see, there is no red moon or even atmoshpere when Itachi demonstrated the jutsu. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/17-18/ http://mjv6qw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pOrc_tko15F8btQWVzTqmYeiNa-48RXDzZuwbQ1i3v7QcevMyA8ZGvvKSD-A9wmR8l_blJvFKZoYEYXV6Pterib635ZKUYl6K/redmoon2.jpg

The area in the manga is completely dark. Listing such as a trait of the jutsu without clarifying it is thus inaccurate as it's not canonical.Wreiad (talk) 12:06, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Being that the manga is black and white kinda does that to color don't you think? The anime is able to show a lot more of things that are limited by the small panels in the manga. Thus far, we've seen in color (in the anime, obviously) and it had the red moon, which caused the introverted colors and what not. But I'll do some rewriting because you made such a long post and I'm sure your gonna bite me if I don't.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:53, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I take that back, there is no way to rewrite it without going into a bunch of unnecessary babble because I made my point above.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:55, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Tell me, where on that page do you see a moon, let alone a red one?Wreiad (talk) 16:49, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * The very pictures you linked. Like I just said, we've seen it in color (gray-scale, as seen in the manga, the red moon to explain the gray-scale we see in the anime) and thus it is mentioned. If you wanna be difficult and shoehorn a "anime only" reference someone in there, be my guest just don't do it in a way that screws with the flow of the article.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 18:10, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * The place you chose to add (anime only) suggests that the color inversion is unique to the anime, which it isn't. Tsukuyomi illusions are white lines on a black page instead of the usual black lines on white pages. ~SnapperTo 18:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Clearance: Genjutsu from chapter 478
The genjutsu used by Sasuke in chapter 478 cannot be concluded to be Tsukuyomi because there is no substantial evidence to support that. Let's revisit older chapters and put this into perspective. Sasuke's first use of genjutsu with his Mangekyo Sharingan was in chapter 408, page 3. Here, he easily breaks the will of the Cloud shinobi after Suigetsu failed to do so with his physical prowess, and the cloud shinobi is paralyzed. Let's do recall that Kisame claimed Itachi's genjutsu [Tsukuyomi] was known to break the will of victims [chapter 142, page 9], and Kakashi experienced paralysis [Or fatigue] after it was used. Even Karin knew Sasuke's genjutsu would work. Why? One can therefore make a reasonable assumption that Sasuke's genjutsu from that particular chapter was Tsukuyomi. Moving on to chapter 413 page 9, he does the same thing again, only this time we see the inverted colors, and it's broken. This is important. Let's go back to chapter 388. Here, Sasuke breaks Tsukuyomi. Like Killer Bee after him, Sasuke is fatigued and can barely move for a certain amount of time. Not only that, but Itachi, user of said genjutsu, experiences slight fatigue to the extent where he also collapses and has pain in his eye. When Killer Bee broke Tsukuyomi, Sasuke experienced fatigue to the extent where his reactions were quite slowed [He is hit by a Lariat] and his eye is pained as well. This is important; All the above is missing when Sasuke used his genjutsu on Danzo. It is shown that one shouldn't be able to attack during or after Tsukuyomi's duration, and Sasuke was about to do just that while Danzo was distracted. To summerize: 1) The colors are not inverted. Unlike his prior genjutsu, this one features no inverted colors.

2) Sasuke experiences no fatigue. Unlike his other genjutsu that was broken [That was again, broken], this particular genjutsu caused him no fatigue and he was about to follow it up with an attack.

3) Danzo experiences no fatigue. Sasuke has his eye removed, and he later collapses after the genjutsu is used. Killer Bee is stabbed and collapes. Danzo is burned and nothing happens? It's like how Naruto is hit by several shuriken and choked, and nothing happens to him. Seem familiar?

4) Sasuke's eye is not strained. And the last important one. Both times when Tsukuyomi was broken, the user was holding their eye. Not once in this chapter Sasuke stop to hold his eye.

So who are we kidding here? This was a "normal" genjutsu meant as a distraction, as I especially don't think someone is effectively locked into using Tsukuyomi while they have the Mangekyo activated and can't use other genjutsu; Tsukuyomi shouldn't be the exclusive genjutsu of the Mangekyo Sharingan. Let's also keep in mind what happened after Itachi used genjutsu on Naruto and it was broken. The exact same seems to have occured here. Finally, we can't just blindly take what a character says without looking for the conflicting evidence. Madara for example claims Sasuke's pure hate enabled him to break the cursed seal. Sasuke's thoughts on the other hand, show that his love for Itachi instead fuels him.Wreiad (talk) 19:57, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your points are explained by Sasuke not being as skilled with Tsukuyomi as Itachi is, which is what Danzo says. Also, Sasuke's hate for Danzo and love for Itachi go hand-in-hand, so that's not conflicting. ~SnapperTo 20:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or he just used a regular genjutsu? We should show evidence that Sasuke was using Tsukuyomi to put that i. So far, I don't think he has in that particular. I alreay pointed out how Tsukuyomi's inverted colors and how it causes fatigue and eye pain when it's broken, so this has nothing to do with skill and don't ignore that much.Wreiad (talk) 22:00, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The end of chapter 387 and the start of 388 are a Tsukuyomi illusion and the colors don't become inverted until Sasuke starts to break it. Inverted colors are a characteristic, not a requirement. In regards to chapter 413, you are giving too much attention to one panel. Sasuke is not aware that Bee has broken the illusion. He lets his guard down and for that gets Lariat'd. The pain it causes him is also clearly not as bad as what Itachi experienced, so logically he could ignore the discomfort and continue attacking if he wanted to, as he does with Danzo. Again, Danzo says Sasuke's Tsukuyomi is not as sophisticated, which means the penalties of using it would not be nearly as bad as Itachi's. ~SnapperTo 04:27, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Danzō doesn't say that Sasuke's genjutsu is Tsukuyomi, however. I'd say that's a misreading of the line:


 * HisshouBuraiKen: Danzō: I'll commend you for actually trapping me in a [genjutsu]. However... [. . .] Compared to Itachi's Tsukuyomi, where he could alter your perception of time at his whim... You're as far below him as the land is below the sky.


 * There is just no element of the sentence that says—or implies—that it's Tsukuyomi. Bvdan (talk) 17:10, February 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is implied by the fact that he's comparing the genjutsu to Itachi's Tsukuyomi, which he wouldn't feel the need to do if he was talking about any other genjutsu, as a genjutsu that can alter the perception of time has never been shown other then Tsukuyomi, thus it wouldn't be an insult to go "That generic genjutsu you just used is less powerful then a genjutsu which uses an immense amount of chakra, is a kekkei genkai, and screws over your eyesight, from a master of genjutsu." Now would it? 81.131.231.87 (talk) 13:27, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're saying that Danzō wouldn't compare Tsukuyomi to a generic genjutsu because the stronger one is obvious, but Danzō essentially said that Itachi's Tsukuyomi is obviously stronger than the genjutsu Sasuke used. There's a hole in that.   JQuinn (talk) 07:04, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

maybe all of MS jutsus are meant to be practiced and master each with a level increasing every time a the user practice it or undergoes emotional distressed--200.59.28.160 (talk) 04:58, March 21, 2010 (UTC)eternaluchiha95

You all have very good points on why Sasuke's genjutsu isn't Tsukuyomi, but Madara has implied that he does have it. Sasuke says, during the Kage Summit, that the third eye power Susanoo is used when one has two Mangekyō, and later, Madara elaborates by saying one must have awakened Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to use Susanoo. Since Sasuke can use Susanoo, we can then confirm that he too can use Tsukuyomi. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 16:03, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

He wasn't arguing that Sasuke didn't have Tsukuyomi but rather that he didn't use it when he was fighting Danzo. It seemed like Danzo was comparing Sasuke to Itachi in Genjutsu skill. As he stated he compared Sasuke's "Genjutsu" to Itachi's "Tsukuyomi". Using basic English knowledge this does not indicate at all that Sasuke uses Tsukuyomi but rather that he used a genjutsu that wasn't on par with Tsukuyomi.--74.233.173.126 (talk) 22:41, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

User: Madara?
If mAdara plans on making an infinite tsukuyomi, why isn't he listed?
 * Because wanting to use doesn't mean he can use. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:30, October 16, 2010 (UTC)