Talk:Plot of Naruto: Shippūden

Official arc names from the data book
Not sure if this really matters, but the new data book has a section describing the plot for most of Part II (pages 206 to 213), with two pages for each arc up until just before Jiraiya invaded Amegakure. The names are:



Do what you will with the info. FF-Suzaku 13:36, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Differences in Anime and Manga
There are many differences in the anime and the manga series of both Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden. Maybe you guys should make seperate plot pages for the two. For exmaple the Three Tails Arc. In the manga Naruto does not make any appearence in it, but the most recent preview suggests that Naruto will in the anime. Just a thought though. One that, I believed, should be put forword. - Zero - Talk 15:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Or we could simply add the info here. Clearly stating that it happened in the anime only. - Zero - Talk 17:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Teleport?
That last line in "Tsunade and Pain": "Apparently, though, not everyone in Konoha was killed, possibly because of a ninja using some sort of jutsu that can teleport a large number of people at once, as Sakura is seen crying after the village was destroyed. " ..appears to be speculation.... I was under the impression that Sakura was safe because of Katsuya (the slug)-- as far as I can tell Sakura hasn't teleported. Where did this information come from? Perhaps it should be removed?
 * I took care of it. Jacce 11:57, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Sasuke's Revenge?
I don't really think that Sasuke's revenge is an appropriatetitle for the arc. Although Sasuke was the main focus in most of the chapter, I think we all can agree that it isn't him getting his revenge. Bestrapper91

Change Title - Plot of Naruto Part 2
This ain't the Plot of naruto shippuden, this is the plot of naruto part 2.

It is. Besides I plan on adding indformation from the filler arcs soon. Labling that they are anime onely of course. - Zero - Talk 10:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #16723
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #16723 on 2008-12-27 05:05:53 UTC

In the section that says naruto fights back there is erroneous information

Filler arcs
Why aren't there sections for the Fire Temple and Three-Tail Turtle arcs here? It's been bothering me for some time. Is this merely a page for the manga's plot?Orochidayu 02:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking of adding them when I got the time. Unfortunately I cant make the time, yet. However before adding Filler arc Data here the Plot of Naruto must specify Naruto Part 1's Filler Arcs. - Zero - Talk 09:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

New Sections

 * Taken from Jacce and Zero2001's Talk Pages:

Why? If you ask me, the content I added was helpful to those who did not wish to go through the whole page in order to know the unresolved plot threads so far. Plus I was planning to link the content to the respective page sections, reference the data and add a section on the people who have died in Chranological Order. All relevent to the plot. More people have died in the Shippuuden era than during Part 1. Everything I wrote is relevent to the plot.

Why did you immediately shoot down my idea? If you think it was redundancy then it isn't. People would like it if they could access info without going through multiple topics. You didn't even bother to discuss it. I can make sure that no incorrect info is added. I regularly visit so I can delete incorrect data. Please restore my work so I can improve on it. I'm requesting you to do it instead of doing it myself because I have no desire to usurp your authority and have no wish to get into an argument. Please restore my work before someone else edits the page and I have to do everything all over again. At the very least restore it untill a discussion can take place. Thank You. - Zero - Talk 06:41, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I considerd that speculating. Talk to Dantman and see if he is ok with it. Jacce 06:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Specualation is defined as making guesses based on revealed data. What I wrote was simply a statement of the plot threads that had not been resolved as of yet. It was completely, 100% true and not speculation. You can ask Dantman if you wish but please restore the facts I wrote or give me permission to do so. I shall take full responsibility if Dantman objects. - Zero - Talk 06:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * But since it hasen't happen, how do you know it will happen? Something else might turn up. And what's the point, everything is already in the page. Jacce 07:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

That's why I named the topics as Unresolved Plot Threads (so far). It means that untill now these plot threads have not been completed. Plus I phrased each point as a question. How exactly is that guessing? It's a basic statement of the facts that these plot threads haven't been completed as of yet. Even if they remain unresolbved untill the end. They will be unresolved and thus belong in that section. It will be a fact that those plot threads were unresolved untill the end. That is not speculation. Read my edits carefully. Yoiu'll see for yourself what I'm talking about. Please restore my work or allow me to do so. I know what I am doing. - Zero - Talk 07:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * So what is the point of having it. Everything is already said in the page. Jacce 07:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

That's precisely my point. Everything is written but it is so mixed up with everything else that it can pass unnoticed. Creating a seperate section for things like this ensures that data can be accessed easily and quickly. This way everyone can know that the metioned plot threads are still to be resolved or havn't been resolved as of yet. It's the basic rule of information presentation. Mention imporatant points seperately even if it is repitition. And you have to admit that Unresolved Plot Threads are important. So can I restore it please, or will you do the honors? Come on. Trust me on this. I mean look at the character pages. You could say that the data on jutsu/techniques are present in it's plot section but the data is still written seperately in another section as well. So why not in the Naruto Shippuuden Plot as well? You have to admit that it is the logical step to take.

Also, I'm also going to add a list of names of the characters who have died, sorted chronologicallyby death course. There is a lot of data that has to be added. Plus haven't you noticed that m ost of the pages in this wiki have little to no pics. Especially the Plot pages. There's lots to do and if you keep deleteing things like this then noone will get the resolve needed to add things at all. So what do you say? Can I? - Zero - Talk 08:50, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Dantman left his opinion on my talk page, I suggest you read it. Jacce 18:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * : I wouldn't say it's speculation, nor would I say it's something we normally put on the wiki. It doesn't actually make any unconfirmed statements or guesses, but rather presents the guesses in a list. Then again, there are a few notes that aren't neutral enough, and other notes:


 * "(Depending on what happens to him, Though there is a very low chance of it being the latter)" would be speculation
 * Danzou (bad romanization)
 * "Unresolved Plot Threads (so far)" What happened to never using "current", something that is "so far" kind of falls under the scope of "current" that we want to avoid.
 * Best thing to do would be to make a few neutral statements on the talkpage and see what other community members's opinions on if we should be putting an unresloved plot pieces list into the article. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 1, 2009 @ 18:11 (UTC)

Very well. We shall move this discussion to the talk page. - Zero - Talk 04:02, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Continuing Discussion here:

So correct my mistakes but don't remove the whole section just because of a few small mistakes. How is that fair? Look I get it. You want things t remain as they are as much as possible. Humans naturally resist change. But you have to underdstand that Change is inevitable. You can't just go around shooting down peoples ideas just because you do not like change. Anyway This discussion cannot be good enough unless people actually see what I'm talking about so I'm gonna restore the edits just untill this discussion is resolved. that way everything will be fair. I'll even add the improvements I was talking about. So can I? - Zero - Talk 04:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * For the depending thing: We know Naruto is either going to bring peace to the world or destroy it. Let that remain and delete the bracket info.
 * For the bad Romanization: Correct it.
 * For an inappropriate topic name: Change it to something more suitable.


 * I agree that a section for unresolved plot points is unnecessary, especially since it could be years before there's any development with things like "how will Naruto bring Peace to the world?" If the biggest advantage that section would provide is helping readers make sense of the synopsis, then taking an ax to the amount of detail would be far better. Seriously, I don't know who's updating this every week, but they need to exercise some restraint. Six paragraphs on one chapter? That's bound to take longer to read than the manga itself. ~SnapperTo 04:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm With Snapper2 On this one....this sounds a bit unneccesary if u ask me ~AlienGamerTalk

Very well. I wont press for the Unresolved Threads section. But how about a section containing a list of characters who have died. Sorted in Chronological Order of Death, or is that irrerlevent to the plot as well. - Zero - Talk 08:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That Sounds like a gud idea, will help a lot of ppl to keep track. Not entirely sure if it shud be in the plot section though, perhaps an entirely new pg??But zero u've only got 2 opinions, there r a lot more users, aybe u shud wait to hear wat they hav to say before u get too disapointed....for all we know Snapper2 and i could be outvoted, and a lot of ppl mite aggree wit u...AlienGamerTalk

A new page just for a list? Look, I'll add the info in a table containing the Arc Name and Place of Death as well. Then we can discuss whether it should stay or be deleted or have it's colors changed or whatever. You cannot decide whether something is good or bad without experiencing it, thats what people always say. I mean seriously how many times has it happened that you do not like how a dish (food) looks but when you taste it you complete become a fanatic over it. But please do not delete without proper discussion first. That way the discussion is more effective. - Zero - Talk 09:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to help me complete the table. - Zero - Talk 09:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Descriptive Writing

 * I agree that a section for unresolved plot points is unnecessary, especially since it could be years before there's any development with things like "how will Naruto bring Peace to the world?" If the biggest advantage that section would provide is helping readers make sense of the synopsis, then taking an ax to the amount of detail would be far better. Seriously, I don't know who's updating this every week, but they need to exercise some restraint. Six paragraphs on one chapter? That's bound to take longer to read than the manga itself. ~SnapperTo 04:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

About my descriptive writing. i'm afraid that it's the only way I can write. So instead of cleaning up and summarizing the sections. Why not copy the data into their relevent chapter article pages as synopsis. That way my work wont go to waste. And you will have what you want while I will not have to see my work go to waste. Everyone happy.

Those who haven't had their Manga Book Names released can stay as they are here untill they do. Then you can summarize them after transferring them as well. Don't you agree that this is a good enough idea. I just don't want my work being a complete waste. Just think how you guys would feel if you spent your time writing something. Only to have someone else come along and delete it without caring for your hard work. Isn't the purpose of wikia to consoladate all info on a subject? No matter how trivial? I mean most of the people who come here do so because wikipedia deletes their work when they paste it there just because it is descriptive. - Zero - Talk 08:42, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I knew that this would come up someday so I thought about how everyone can be happy. Transferring the decriptive data to Manga Chapter/Book Pages was the best solution I could come up with for all parties involved. I do hope it is accepted because it really is the best solution keeping all parties in mind. - Zero - Talk 08:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Plus, since we cannot give links to onemanga, therefore we need to write descriptively. - Zero - Talk 08:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The goal is to summarize. People do not want to wad through this level of detail when they can just as easily read the manga or watch the anime (which they can find by themselves if they're interested). They want the highlights of what happens, not a panel-by-panel synopsis; maybe a page-by-page synopsis at most. I have no intention of doing anything with the content of this page ("good" or "bad"), but set some limits for yourself. ~SnapperTo 21:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * But the goal of wikia is to consolidate all information on a subject and not summarize. Summarization is Wikipedia's style. Anyway. I'm only saying that just in case it is decided to summarize this page then the data should first be copied onto the respective Manga Chapter Pages and then the Data on this page should be summarized. And now that you've touched this topic others will be sure to follow. So a contingency plan needs to be put forward. This one is the best for all parties involved. And not everyone has the pleasure of having the manga books to read or watch the anime. For them this is the only way. So we might as well give them the best we can. After all isn't the purpose of Narutopedia to become the best information site out there? It's written on the Main Page, so I can't say that Summarization without backup is a good idea. [[Image:Zero Sign.jpg|30px]] - Zero - Talk 09:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If people can find this page there's no reason why they can't find one of the many sites that provide the manga too. This article may be excruciatingly informative, but if it takes an hour just to read through it and find the desired information it's not nearly as useful as it could be. ~SnapperTo 18:23, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * "information" is not descriptive writing. "information" is providing facts. Plot summaries are provided so that people can find out what events happened in a chapter/episode (perhaps even use that to find out if an episode was one they are thinking about), and find out what relevance certain characters had in certain arcs.
 * When wa's wikia's goal to not summarize? When did we say that we weren't going to summarize on this wiki? Since when was summarization a Wikipedia only style? Summarization is a universal technique applied by everyone who is trying to provide information about something rather than copy the entire thing.
 * That being said, there are actually plenty of reasons not to use descriptive writing and summarize instead. Not just because the extra information is useless, but because describing an entire chapter/episode in absolute full detail starts to get into the zone where it can be considered infringing on the copyright of the author of that media. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 19:34 (UTC)

And this is exactly the reason why I'm saying that the information should be transferred to the relevent chapter pages before it is summarized here. How would you feel if I went to all the character pages and started summarizing the plot data there. Don't you feel it would be unfair to all the people who have worked hard to write that info. Seriously, It takes an hour just to write the manga into text format. Look I'm not saying that the information on this page should remain as it is. I agree that this page's purpose is to give an overview. But I'm saying that you could transfer the data to it's relevent Manga Chapter page as synopsis (where it will be acceptable) and then summarized the data here. That way everyone will be happy. And if your goal is to become the best information site out there, then do not go for summarization always, best information is always descriptive. If you want I can transfer the data to the necessary pages and then you guys can summarize all the data here you want. - Zero - Talk 06:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

The tankōbon format is not out for the fight against pain yet. When it will then I'll do it. So can you guys please bear with it untill then? Seriously, I didn't see you guys complaining before. You should be happy you're getting this much info. - Zero - Talk 06:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Or if you can't bear with it that long. I can always transfer the data to a sandbox of mine. But that would be a waste since people can't navigate to the page and read it there. I think the first option is better. - Zero - Talk 06:15, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As Dantman said, that level of detail is problematic no matter where it is and simply needs to be cut back. Speaking from personal experience, it is much easier to butcher your work yourself than it is to have someone else do it. ~SnapperTo 19:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

And as I am speaking from my experience. It is only problematic if you are unwilling to do the work. Otherwise it's quite easy. Good wikis have a way of maintaining themselves. And I do not wish to butcher my own work. If you're so hell-bent on it then I will protest against it. It is wrong to ruin anothers work if it is correct. This is a wiki. People come here to get descriptive info. Information needs to be descriptive or it is considered incomplete. What are you afraid of, a little work? Are you afraid of doing it? Or are you afraid that your work will be diminished by it? Is that it? I'm doing the work if it's the first. And if it's the second. Well you probably already know how wrong that stance is (I seriously doubt that it is the second but best to confront all possibilities). Why are you so hell bent on ruining others work? Do you seek to derive pleasure from it? If not then you should consider the plan I've put forward, which is a good compromise in my opinion. I want the information to stay where and how it is. You want it to be summarized. The plan I put forward is the middle ground. So why is it not acceptable? And it doesn't infringe on the copyright if you paraphrase. Plus if it does then this whole wiki is already infringing on that copyright. - Zero - Talk 12:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The level of detail in this article is not just difficult to maintain, it is also difficult to read through. This article should be giving a plot overview, not a novelization. The amount of detail is so great, one can't see the forest for the trees. I understand you put a lot of time and effort into this article, but too much is too much. There is also satisfaction in moderation. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Having alot of detail is nice. I personally love readin the articles of the Galactic Civil War and the Second Galactic Civil War at the Star Wars wiki. Going into super insane details which is basically just an description of every single chapter is not good though.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:20, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There are severals reasons why I haven't done anything:
 * I do not want to. If I had a desire to add weekly updates I would have started doing that a few months ago. I trust that people who are interested in adding the latest developments, of whom there are many, will do so.
 * Were I to summarize your work, I would not actually summarize your work. It's faster for me to write my own version than it is to trim down what already exists. And that would be inconsiderate of the effort you've put into the article.
 * This wiki seems to favor articles on volumes over articles on chapters. You've suggested both so I don't know which you'd prefer, and the former is not possible at the moment.
 * Even if this were to be transferred to chapter/volume/arc pages, it is still too long. Cutting down the level of detail is something that should happen no matter where the information ends up. What you are doing is not paraphrasing; if Naruto was a book, this article would be a word-for-word copy of the book.
 * I am not "hell bent" on ruining your work. I am suggesting that you stop wasting an hour every week when the masses would be much more appreciative if you only took twenty minutes to do a less aggravating summary. ~SnapperTo 19:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If I may butt in, its not that anyone is ungratefull or hell bent on ruinin u'r work.....its just that this is goin a bit overboard.....for example
 * The discussion with the 4th is only 1 chapter, yet its taken 10 paragraphs
 * The Final Clash With Deva Path...only 2 chapters....but 11 paragraphs
 * The Pain Arc has taken up 87 paragraphs
 * The pain Arc Alone has taken up HALF the plot summary page....
 * So think about this.....the size of the page has DOUBLED on ONE ARC alone.....Frm the beginning of shippuuden till before the pain arc could hav been covered with the same space.....AlienGamerTalk


 * Jesus help us...gotta pay attention to this article more...--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:37, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. Very well, butcher my hard work. However, I must inform you that I have copied all the info I added onto a text file and I do plan on adding them to the chapter pages (Many of which haven't been created yet, if I may add). I'll add them under synopsis heading and sort the data according to chapter. When I do I'm sure that you'll appreciate it. Furthermore, I will start adding similar data to the other chapter pages as soon as my holidays start, which will be around the middle of may. And, I will take full responsibility for maintaining it. Remember I'm the kind of guy who sticks to what I start. And I'm not just doing it because I want to. I'm also doing it for all those who do want to read descriptive data. I'm not asking you to read it. Those who wish to could go to the chapter pages and those who want the overview can come to this page. I have relented on many past occasions but I just cannot relent on this. A wiki is about all audiences. Not just those who want the short overview. It's unfair to ignore some just because there are more voices saying something else, if there is a way to sate both sides of the conflict. This way everyone will be happy. I think that's a good thing don't you? And it's not like we have a limit on the amount of space available, you know. And if you think that just because it will take to long to do it then let me say this: Rome wasn't built in a day. But if they had given up after the first day and demolished what they had done then it never would have been built at all. The same here. I wont add anymore info here but I will continue adding it to my text file in order to copy it when the time comes. - Zero - Talk 05:55, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with who's maintaining it, and you've ignored all the previous comments. People don't come to a wiki for a full plot writing as descriptive as the media itself, they come for information, and large descriptive plots like that just get in the way of that. If someone is looking for full descriptive information then they can be pointed to buy/read/watch the manga/anime themselves, we are not a replacement for what we are documenting. We have also noted why descriptive writing causes trouble, namely the fact that after a certain point descriptive writing becomes copyright infringement and can be argued in a court case. You are arguing here against multiple people and are the only one trying to push this POV. Ignoring that fact creates disruptive behavior. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 6, 2009 @ 06:08 (UTC)

That is your point of view and I do respect it. But from what I have seen across many wikis, People do come to get full plot details. And they are disappointed not to get it. Not everyone has access to the manga or the anime, whether due to using a dialup that has way too little speed or because it is not available in stores near them. Wikis are the only place where they can sate some of their thirst for information. But if you really do not wish to do this then so be it. I have other places I can post my data. Now that I have copied my work I do not really care what you do to it. As for the copyright It hasn't happened so far. I seriously doubt if it will happen at all. It's only when you copy the exact thing that copyright is violated. Reading in words does not compare to the pics in the comics or the video and audio of anime. Writers have little to fear from data already released. It's only when leaks occur of data that is yet to be released then it become a cause for concern. As for anime. They are only concerned over videos and audios. Otherwise sites like tv.com would be swimming in lawsuits. Basically this whole site promotes their work. I seriously doubt if they would scream bloody murder over it. But as I said. I'll leave it if you wish. But you should really consider what I said instead of shooting it down like you always do. Just a thought. You're free to ignore it if you want. - Zero - Talk 06:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter if people have access to the manga and anime or not. We are not a replacement for them, end of story. And as for copyright, it's not as clear cut as you think. It doesn't mater if Viz will try to take us up in a court case or not, we have no intention of permitting anything that would make for one of those cases even if they are unlikely to be pursued. And highly descriptive writing is one of those things. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 7, 2009 @ 08:24 (UTC)

In the end it is your wiki. Do what you want. I can always post my work on Scribd.com. But I still say you are wrong. Still... I will respect your decision as it is made with good intentions. However the way things are going on this wiki, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes you guys months to summarize my data. It's a fact that you guys are slow workers. - Zero - Talk 10:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Get to work
Hey, wake up! If you guys make a decision then you should immediately get to work implementing it. Seriously. - Zero - Talk 08:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * lol...u'r rite....evry1 was so serious a few days ago...AlienGamerTalk

And now they're just lazing around. Sheesh. The organisation of this wiki is really lax. Seriously. Wake up. If you weren't gonna do any of the work then you shouldn't have started the above discussion in the first place and you shouldn't have asked me to stop writing descriptively... Seriously. Wake Up. - Zero - Talk 17:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You made the mess, you clean it up I always say. Besides, you wouldn't want me touching this, I'd delete it from the top bottom and then tell someone with a better memory to go to town.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

You and I have a very different idea as to what constitutes as a mess. You were the ones to call it a mess. You were the ones adamant on summarizing it and now you are the ones not doing it. Lazy. Very Lazy. Tut tut. Such a waste. - Zero - Talk 07:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you're so hell-bent on us ruining your work I can get started on that once 444 has come and gone. Of course, since I'm basically going to erase everything you've written over the past few months, I still encourage you to do it yourself. Lighten the blow, if you will. ~SnapperTo 22:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Deaths
This Is wat i meant by controversial....ppl hav different views on wat happened to kakashi, there will no doubt be a revert war about this, and evn in the future if there r unconfirmed deaths, summ ppl will add it, and the others will revert it :S...AlienGamerTalk

And fukasaku is NOT frm Konoha AlienGamerTalk

Fine then I'll remove Kakashi and Fukasaku as well. But bear in mind that I'm not writing where they are from but where they died. - Zero - Talk 09:38, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Besides if there isn't anything to revert things get boring for the higher ups. Believe me I know, Maintaining is half the fun. - Zero - Talk 09:43, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. Why is it that People can't bother to read talk pages... or edit summaries for that matter. This is so troublesome. LOL. By the way, Thanks AlienGamer, for reverting DjangoBrown's edits. - Zero - Talk 14:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

OK. I would just like to say that while the new table does match the other tables on this wiki. It's aligning of text is horrible. I'll try to fix it. And why use redirects when you can use renamed direct links? Do you like watching that small text at the top every single time? - Zero - Talk 07:02, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Preferred method of center aligning stuff inside cells is the "cell-align-center" which in our shared css aligns the cells individually in a clean way. That center-block will handle making the table itself be in the middle of the page when caches refresh. Give it a little while and it'll magically start to look right.
 * Redirects are more reliable than direct links. Deva path will always point to our information on the Deva path. Ya, currently that is Nagato. But hell, a few days ago the link was Nagato. In the not to distant future the correct link might become Six Paths of Pain. Heck eventually we might have enough information and decide "Hell, let's give each path it's own article" and then the link becomes Deva path directly.
 * Despite that a link to Deva path will always point to the correct location because all we have to do is edit that redirect or direct page instead of hunting down every last single frigin direct link on the wiki.
 * All that... and staring at Deva path while editing is far more polite and cleaner than staring at Deva path . ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 8, 2009 @ 09:14 (UTC)

I would prefer, as you say, the "hunting down every last frigging link" path. But as you wish. Oh, and would you mind skipping the profanities next time? Thanks. - Zero - Talk 08:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

What is really a death?
Does both the mind AND body need to be destroyed? And if so which mind and body as Orochimaru had many bodies in the past. Since Kabuto integrated remains of Orochimaru into himself, there are two Orochimaru at that point, the body in Kabuto and mind in Saskuke(for some time). 74.236.92.133 (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Chiriku
When was it said that Hidan killed Chiriku with his curse? Jacce | Talk 10:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * When they showed Chiriku dead they also showed Hidan pulling his spike out of his chest while on the symbol. 2 + 2 = 4. [[Image:Zero Sign.jpg|30px]] - Zero - Talk 17:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * He did that after defeting Yugito, and he diden't do it after killing Asuma. Jacce | Talk 17:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * But he did do it after killing Chiriku, the head monk of the Fire Temple. That happened before killing Asuma. Remember? [[Image:Zero Sign.jpg|30px]] - Zero - Talk 17:43, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with Jacce. Hidan performing his rituals says nothing about him having used his curse or not. Even if we were sure it meant he had used his Curse Technique, there is still no way of saying he used it against Chiriku. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

And to be fair, he had no time as he was called back by pain...but on the other hand this is just a ritual he does, and might be unrelated to the curse, he might do this after he kill's any victim AlienGamerTalk


 * Stabbing oneself? Considering from what I've seen, Hidan's ritual was based on the sharing of the pain of death. He wouldn't use it unless he had actually used his curse. Rituals 101. [[Image:Zero Sign.jpg|30px]] - Zero - Talk 17:50, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Although this might be stupid to say...Hidan, by the looks of it will always go for an outright kill....this is the only technique of his shown....other than taijutsu, and the immortaility thing that is, but, again, it's my judgement on his character AlienGamerTalk


 * True but he would prefer to use the ritual so that he may feel the pain of his victims death. It seems from his comments that it is a vital part of his faith. But this is going far off the track, we are talking about Chiriku not Asuma here. [[Image:Zero Sign.jpg|30px]] - Zero - Talk 17:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In the end, we have not seen him activate the curse, so really, it is speculation. Jacce | Talk 17:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * True, But in all the fights SHOWN, hidan has used this technique, it might not be far-fetched to belive he did so here as well, but u'r right, that wud be speculating, and hence pointless AlienGamerTalk


 * All things aside, we don't even know if it was Hidan who killed Chiriku. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That isn't entirely true....Hida uses his ritual after he kills sum1...it wud be fair to say, he wouldn't do this if sum1 else killed him, and Kakuzu doesn't help Hidan unless hidan is incapicitated, and if he does help, he generally mentions this wenevr he can, (like in the meetings), Its fair to say that Hidan's the one who killed Chiriku..AlienGamerTalk


 * Still, both attaced at the start of the fight, and Hidan told Kakuzu to not fight agasint Asuma & co. Against Team 10 both fought. Jacce | Talk 18:24, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the fact there were dozens of monks Hidan could have killed. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Why not just assume that the team killed him? even if only one of them killed him, they are at least still part of the team74.236.92.133 (talk) 18:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Hidan pulled the spike out of his chest after Chiriku is shown dead. Plus he was on the symbol. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the curse was the final blow. But Kakuzu might have helped, so we can call it a teram effort. - Zero - Talk 07:47, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * However, the symbol was far bigger then it had to, and Hidan did the same after his fight against Two-tails, so it is realy no proof that it was his effort that killed Chiriku. Jacce | Talk 09:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with those who think that Hidan's Curse Jutsu killed Chiriku. Hidan's Curse WAS the final blow as the last scene was that he was on his "Curse Mode" appearing dead (signifying Chiriku's death at his hands). I don't see why this is not proof enough that Hidan is Chiriku's killer.--Ethelion (talk) 13:09, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you are misstaken, Hidan is not seen with his curse activated during his time in the fire temple. Not before the fight, not during, and not after. Maybe you should tell us where you saw this. Jacce | Talk 13:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw this in the anime episode 73 in the Hidan and Kakuzu vs. Chiriku Aftermath. See for yourself and let me know what you think.--Ethelion (talk) 13:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked one more time at the episode, at 15:00 Hidan rises after been beaten by Chiriku's holy technique (in his normal form) and attacs. At 15:15 his feet are seen (still normal). The camera shifts to Chiriku, that claims that he shall protect the temple, and activates his technique. The camera moves to the mountain and some hits lands. At 15:36 the camera shifts to the destroyed temple and at 15:46 Hidan is seen praying (still normal). So where did he activate his curse? Jacce | Talk 13:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He was never shown activating the curse but was in "Curse Mode" after the battle. This directly implies that he finished Chiriku off with his curse, don't you think Jacce?--Ethelion (talk) 13:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I just re-read your reply and noticed that you observed Hidan still being normal after the battle. I must admit that you proved me wrong and humbly apologize for the mistake. Thanks for understanding and good job on noticing the details.--Ethelion (talk) 14:03, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, that is what I do. Jacce | Talk 14:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)