Talk:Torii Seal

Deletion
If it wasn't, why doesn't it act at all like Naruto's old seal? Why did the Nine-Tails comment on the similarity to the Sage of Six Paths? How come Naruto can use the torii at will? Evidence points to it being a completely new seal.--NaruHina fan (talk) 03:26, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * With this article ¾ of it would be speculation. We've already been told that the majority of the workings of the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style is unknown. This could just be a stage in it. I just really don't see the need for this article.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:29, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then why would the chapter itself call it the new seal? It could be an evolution of the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style, but it seems far more likely to be a new one. Especially if it could completely dissolve a Tailed Beast Ball, and be commented in being similar to the Sage of Six Paths.--NaruHina fan (talk) 03:34, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * No it's also the seal itself, and as Cerez said, it's a ¾ speculation --Ilnarutoanime26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) Konohagakure_Symbol.svg 03:49, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm ambivalent to this. I see logical reason on both sides. I agree that there are things suggesting it's a new seal, and I agree that it's possible that is one of the hitherto unknown limits of the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style. I do, however, feel that if this article is to be kept, that it should have its name changed. We all know that this is a seal, and that the chapter title called it a new seal. In fact, I think "New Seal" is actually the most canon name for it, since when the Nine-Tails said "This is... the Sage of the Six Path's...", we didn't get to hear what was his. Most likely it meant the seal, but we don't know that beyond reasonable doubt. If we did, I'd suggest this to be named "Sage of the Six Path's Seal", but since we can't, "New Seal" is the most canon name. For a descriptive name, I'd say "Torii Seal". All that if the article is kept. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:25, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Omni's suggestion.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:31, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

I thought the Nine-Tails was referring to the chakra shroud enveloping Naruto? On the topic of seals, I thought Naruto was able to do what he can do because he has the Key for the seal. The title of the chapter, couldn't it be referring to re-applying the same seal? --Alastar 89 (talk) 06:36, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * If it was the seal, then it wouldn't look different. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:02, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

How?
I just wanted to know how you know it's called the Torii Seal. It never said that in the manga did it?24.129.58.16 (talk) 16:35, July 13, 2011 (UTC)Joey
 * It was never named officially. "Torii Seal" is just a name that was generated, hence why it's in italics.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:40, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Oh okay well it's a cool name for the seal. Can I get your opinion on something? I hear peopkle calling Naruto's new Fox Mode the "Sage of Six Paths Mode" even though Naruto doesn't have the Rinnegan. I know Naruto has some resemblance to the Rikudo Sage But I don't think it's right to call his new form the "Sage of Six Paths Mode." What do you think?
 * Ah yes they do call it that since he resembles the silhouette of the Sage, but it's actually been called the in the manga so we're sticking with that as opposed to "Sage of Six Paths/Rikudo Mode."which is not necessarily wrong, just a fanmade name that'll probably not go away.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:33, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

I must have over-looked that they call it "Tailed Beast Chakra Mode" somehow. I'll have to look it up. Glad there's someone that agrees with me though :)24.129.58.16 (talk) 17:35, July 13, 2011 (UTC)Joey
 * woops lol we're using the name "" Sorry about that, though both can be used.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:44, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Both names are better than "Sage of Six Paths Mode." Do you know what chapter it says "Nine Tails Chakra Mode?"
 * It's either Naruto or Bee, somewhere during the last ten chapters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:05, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Picture of Stored Nine-Tails Chakra?
Well, should we add a picture to illustrate where the chakra is stored in the seal? Yes you Should! please Do!
 * Not too sure if that has to do with the seal exactly. Didn't Naruto just separate the chakra? Though at the same time there were torii there so I think it'd be fine, although simple referencing might do just as well...--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:31, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

Range of this technique
Is not it limited to Naruto's inner?--Spcmn (talk) 19:20, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know. If we did then that would be incuded in the article.71.71.58.231 (talk) 20:04, December 14, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 * He's right though. I don't think this should have a "range" any at all because it doesn't have an 'area of effect'.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:36, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

why does the article
Say it's an updated eight trigrams seal or something? The chapter is even called "new seal" and it was even stated that he had removed the old one.--Elveonora (talk) 19:35, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * He still uses the same key to open and close it though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:22, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's true. It's more than likely based on eight trigrams, that doesn't make it an upgrade in a sense that it changed. He had to remove the old and apply a new one, the wording should be changed a bit, because it suggests it's his old seal changed after he stole fox's chakra which is nonsensical and untrue. This is my opinion alone, but I believe "Torii Seal" is the technique mentioned that were Minato and Jiraiya mentioned to have been working on but never finished, stating it's time for Naruto to finish it.--Elveonora (talk) 22:29, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Whisker marks
A person in NU forum did an interesting observation. Naruto's whisker marks resembles a trigram when he enters in Bijuu Mode, probably reflecting how the seal evolved from its parent technique. Anyway, I think it's an interesting info for the Trivia Adept-eX (talk) 06:48, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Minato
After seeing Minato gain identical seal markings upon assuming his own Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, and subsequent Tailed Beast Mode, despite the fact that neither torii were used, nor did he have to go through what Naruto did to obtain it, wouldn't it be safer to say this is simply part of the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style? The same seal was used to place the Yin half of Kurama inside of him (we've seen with the Third Hokage that the Dead Demon Consuming Seal produces an Eight Trigrams Seal) as it was on Naruto. So, wouldn't this just be an evolution of said seal, and not a unique technique? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 08:28, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was always under the impression that this technique was on the scroll that Minato instructed Jiraiya to give to Naruto. Ya know, with the key and all. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 11:06, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I honestly didn't notice Minato's change at all.
 * That being said, I could go either way.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:12, September 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bump. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:31, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I always assumed the different seal marks happened over the fact they don't have the entire beast in them. The whole splitting of the Nine-Tails, reasons and effects, is something I've been waiting ages to have properly explained, since Jiraiya first mentioned it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:42, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

@Fox, except:
 * When Minato sealed half fox into himself, it didn't produce the eight trigrams seal
 * torii seal was explicitly called "new seal" and we saw Naruto removing his old--Elveonora (talk) 23:04, September 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Eight Trigrams Seal is a product of the Dead Demon Consuming Seal; that is a fact you can't dispute. That's not to say its the same technique as the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style, but rather that they produce the same seal. That is what it is. Secondly, Minato's seal in KCM is the exact same as Naruto's "new seal", so unless Naruto can suddenly can create new seals out of thin air, without knowing any sealing techniques himself, then this is just an evolution of the original seal. It would make sense. The Eight Trigrams Sealing Style apparently has some mysteries that haven't been fully explored, and the fact that it changed after each jinchūriki gained control of his tailed beast, hints at similar prerequisites, despite the fact that Minato's seal doesn't require the use of torii. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:26, September 6, 2013 (UTC)

Still the Same Seal
As the above discussions stated, this article is unneeded, as this seal is still the same as the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style. Naruto's entry in Retsu no Sho describes the black patterns on his Kurama Chakra Mode as the Four Symbols Seal(s) spreading out, not any sort of new "Torii Seal". Also, chapter 666 shows that Naruto's seal looks the same is it always has while he isn't in Chakra Mode. For all we know, the "new seal" in chapter 499's title could refer to the new cage for Kurama in Naruto's mind, or to the actual torii that he manifested, since they are presumably a form of fūinjutsu just like Hashirama's.--BeyondRed (talk) 08:16, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Which page of chapter 666?--JOA2008:25, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Page 16, when Obito seals Kurama into Naruto.--BeyondRed (talk) 08:26, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's the seal Obito created to transfer Yin-Kurama along with Shukaku's and Gyūki's chakras inside Naruto. At most, it would prove that Tailed Beast Transfer Technique is the same as the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style. Remember that the tailed beast's seal disappears once the tailed beast is extracted (see when Yang-Kurama tells Gaara to bring Naruto to Minato, because Minato's Flying Thunder God marking was to disappear along with the seal after the Nine-Tails' extraction).--JOA2008:31, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that they're likely the same technique, which would make Obito a user of Eight Trigrams Sealing Style, but that's probably a discussion for another talk page. Anyway, Retsu no Sho's statement still stands. Naruto's seal is comprised of two Four Symbols Seals, and according to that book it is still comprised of those same seals as of The Last, so it seems unnecessary to assume this "Torii Seal" is a completely different seal worthy of a separate article.--BeyondRed (talk) 08:44, June 26, 2015 (UTC)

I can't see anything in chapter 666.--Elve Talk Page 11:41, June 26, 2015 (UTC)

....Hm. Can anyone verify of the seal on Naruto's chest is still visible at any point after the creation of this new appearance? Because I don't think the form it takes in Chakra Mode is indicative of a new seal after reading this and the above discussion.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:53, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * So i looked myself, and unless I'm mistaken there was no new outward seal, which would mean, while the appearance is different it is still functionally the same seal.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 10:07, June 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, unfortunately the only time we see Naruto's seal after he obtains Chakra Mode is the aforementioned scene in chapter 666 (you can't see it in some lower quality scans, but it's there). That technically isn't the same Eight Trigrams seal, since the original was removed when Kurama was extracted, but considering the fact that Naruto's seal takes on a new shape whenever he enters a new Chakra Mode (which is becoming increasingly often) there's no reason to assume it doesn't return to its original form once Chakra Mode is turned off.--BeyondRed (talk) 10:24, June 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm getting. If anything the "Torii Seal" is just what happens when the creature inside said Seal is now under complete control. The appearance on the chakra cloak looks to just be whatever and can change whenever Kishimoto wants it to.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 10:46, June 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it is the same seal he opens and closes with same key, he obtained the chakra mode because he pulled out Kurama's chakra and closed the seal, after he opened the seal again he got Kurama mode. Retsu no Sho calls it Four Symbols Seal, In The Last his chakra mode has different appearance because of the open seal.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 09:27, July 13, 2015 (UTC)