Talk:Mangekyō Sharingan

Blindness
Actually, there are at least two Mangekyō users who haven't shown signs of deteriorated vision yet, despite the fact they used their Mangekyō techniques a lot: I'm talking about Kakashi Hatake and Obito Uchiha. For the former, it seems he knows about the side-effects of the Mangekyō's power, so he might have blurry vision. But what about Obito? Even though his Space-Time Migration seems to be a Mangekyō technique, Tobi uses it without worry. Maybe we should say it in the Obito Uchiha part.--JOA20 (talk) 20:17, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Hashirama's cells, nuff said.--Elveonora (talk) 21:48, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

Awakening Stolen Sharingan
Should Madara's statement about needing two Sharingan to unlock the Mangekyo be listed as trivia? TricksterKing (talk) 12:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * He said that? Also, Kakashi?--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * He said it when he told Obito that he would take his Sharingan if he died, and, Kakashi seems to be an anomaly  for Sharingan related matters.TricksterKing (talk) 21:53, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

He wasn't referring to Mangekyou, but Rinnegan. He gave his eyes to Nagato, so he needed another pair to get a new one--Elveonora (talk) 22:29, September 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Madara said he needs two Sharingan to bring out their true potential, that doesn't necessarily mean MS. Translators got it really mixed up this week because I wouldn't see why else Obito would say "then together with Kakashi..." he could get stronger.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:42, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is the issue with translators, different groups often say different things. In one I read, Obito said "then... it means that together with Kakashi I can become stronger" and in another it said "that means... that means I can become stronger than Kakashi". I wish Shounen was still here.--210.56.81.64 (talk) 13:56, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Duplicate Jutsus
Does anyone know a reason why the Wiki hiccuped again and has made two of Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance?--Questionaredude (talk) 00:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * No idea. All the previous articles that had duplicate entries show up properly now after the update. What's even stranger is that that's only happening in the Kamui article and here. It shows up ok in Obito's infobox and in the chapter infobox. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:20, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Just a thought
It's never revealed how Kakashi awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, yet Obito most likely awakened his at the news of Rin's death. Could it be possible that the two awakened at the same time, as if they were linked together?LeeHatake93 (talk) 20:00, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's possible but I figure we'll see how it happened in the next few chapters.TricksterKing (talk) 22:37, September 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Speculation. We'll have to wait and see though from what Madara siad in 602, Obito may have awakened it just before the cave in...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Eternal's Power
Sorry if I forgot something, or if I'm ignorant (lack of knowledge), but all I know is that with the "Eternal" Mankekyō, the user can't suffer the blindness of its normal power, however is just that the power it grants, or have something more that I don't know? MaskedManMadara (talk) 21:45, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

There's also a new power, but unknown... presumably Rinnegan--Elveonora (talk) 23:33, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

ok, thank you again :) MaskedManMadara (talk) 15:52, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Unlock MS without gaining the third tomoe?
In the latest chapter, Madara hints that Obito used his MS despite Obito only having two tomoe's. Should we add that to trivia? 173.63.93.233 (talk) 20:36, September 23, 2012 (UTC)BobBob

--Elveonora (talk) 22:07, September 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't know, or do we? ... is there a manga/databook page stating that a fully matured Sharingan is a requirement in order to progress further?
 * But Obito didn't have MS back then, emotion of great loss is required, or nope?

Wow, I never noticed he still had two tomoe. I don't think you can just skip the natural progression like that though, and what Madara said isn't definite. That kinda shoots down the whole "he used MS to escape the rubble thing" in my head. Any way, we can always wait and see no? The story is unfolding either way.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 00:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Answered in Chapter 606, Page 2. Obito (and Kakashi) didn't skip getting the 3rd tomoe. They got it first, and only then did their Sharingans evolve to Mangekyou, albeit in a matter of seconds. --lnite

I read a better translation and it read that he somehow slipped from under the rock as it was caving in, as in while it was still falling in he must of rolled over or moved himself just out of the way, he wasn't hinting at kamui or anything... 173.66.119.89 (talk) 06:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Pair of Eyes' Connection
In the latest chapter, Obito was able to remote see what his other eye, which Kakashi had, seen. Was it added into the page yet? --VolteMetalic (talk) 10:23, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sharingan.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:34, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Question?
Should it be noted that Tobi and Kakashi Hatake are the youngest people to unlock the Mongekyō Sharingan? Or are they not? Zelwolf (talk) 20:16, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf

They are, but that's less than trivial I guess. EDIT: there might have been younger before them, so...--Elveonora (talk) 20:21, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I mean it's not like a really needed to know thing for the story line Zelwolf (talk) 20:22, October 10, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf

Itachi was 12 when he awakened his Mangekyo Sharingan, making him the youngest known BUT Kakashi was either 9 or 11 when he awakened his. Obito awakened his at 13 and then Sasuke awakened his at 16. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 06:15, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's MS usage without strain
Obito suffers no strain refrainlessly using MS due to Hashirama's DNA implanted on him. This is no speculation and I am not forum-ing. Isn't it true that Hashirama's DNA boosts/longevizes the Sharingan power? It's true for Danzo and Obito using Inazagi and also for the resurrected Madara. Isn't it now a fact that Obito has his DNA? Isn't Obito the only one we've seen using the MS so extensively without apparent side effects? Just making a logical deduction here. I believe we will see this more formally explained in the series pretty soon, as only recently Kakashi was revealed to suffer Sharingan strain for extended usage of MS and soon after that Obito was revealed to carry Hashirama's DNA.--Holyn (talk) 17:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:16, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Obito can use his MS without strain because he has Senju DNA within him. Same as how Danzo was able to use Shisui's Kotoamatsukami in somewhat of a succession, whereas Itachi could only activate it after another decade.
 * And when it is announced formally, it will be reflected on the wikia, not before.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:29, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Special Ninjutsu
It is observed whoever awakens the Mangekyo Sharingan sometimes receive a special exclusive jutsu as seen with Obito's(Kamui) and Shisui's(Kotamatsukami) case. 180.194.241.57 (talk) 03:09, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Non-original eyes
Can someone use their mangekyou without their original eyes (sharingan)? And if them implanted two different eyes (sharingan) with the ability of mangekyou, they will have the to differents? please, I know that this is not forum and don't interpret as speculation without answer my question first. MaskedManMadara (talk) 15:07, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Your question would be better posed here.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:22, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Control
The Mangekyō Sharingan is hot specifically needed to control the tailed beasts, it merely enhances the user's dōjutsu power. Sasuke himself was able to control Kurama in Naruto to an extent, suppressing its chakra, with only his standard Sharingan. Furthermore, Obito told Sasuke that all Uchiha can potentially control the tailed beasts, but mentioned nothing about the Mangekyō Sharingan. Control for the tailed beasts should be removed from the Mangekyō Sharingan page and moved to the Sharingan page. Steveo920, December 17,2012, 21:55
 * Still doesn't change the fact that it can be used for controlling it.—

A MS User..
Can Switch Between Sharingan.. Mangekyo Sharingan, and Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as seen in the end of the Kabuto vs Uchiha bros fight from Sasuke, and in the latest chapter 173.66.119.89 (talk) 09:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Itachi vs Kakashi first battle... Not sure about EMS though--~ Ultimate  Supreme  09:47, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * That panel could very well be qan art error. I believe there has been at least one instance of Madara's wood clones being drawn with his Mangekyo despite having the Eternal Mangekyo on other panels.--BeyondRed (talk) 10:09, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

BUT, Sasuke has been shown like this ever since the Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros battle... but it does stand for better reasoning that it has to be an art error.. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 13:56, February 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Kabuto vs Uchiha Bros. example was part of a flashback. Notice the black around the panels, and Sasuke's open collar. SaiST (talk) 02:28, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Wait for volume release/re-release--Elveonora (talk) 15:23, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Bringing up this issue again. 620 is the second chapter in a row where Sasuke has a normal MS rather than his EMS. What do we do about it? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:49, February 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Without more to go on I have to believe it's an art error. Arrancar79 (talk) 05:15, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kishi is good about correcting that stuff though. I've never seen an art error that goes on into multiple consecutive chapters. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:17, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. Doesn't look like an art error.--~ Ultimate  Supreme  05:42, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

About to play captain obvious in here, it's logical that EMS users still can access their "original" final Susanoo, thus their own MS as well? ;D--Elveonora (talk) 13:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

I don't like it, but it's definitely a possibility.. but Kishi can make mistakes sometimes too, take Chapter 599 with Minato's Hokage statue for example. that's an error well beyond the ridiculousness of these past few chapters. I think we should wait and see what the re-release looks like. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:14, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Madara's MS instead of EMS against Onoki wasn't fixed in a re-release--Elveonora (talk) 21:26, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

It would make sense only if was actually not a mistake. I don't think Kishi is that of a hurry... It's probably that Sasuke wants to hide his full power, doesn't he do a lot of that normally? 96.25.226.21 (talk) 11:49, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Is the Eternal MS....eternal?
Sorry, but I am not sure anymore. After seeing Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyo sharigan bleed when fighting Kabuto, I am doubting if the EMS is actually permanent. One could say it just bleeds, but I always thought of the bleeding eye as a sign of the eye going blind. So is the EMS just a stronger version of the MS, or what?--
 * The bleeding comes from the strain the techniques puts on the eye. It's never been said the bleeding was a sign of the eye deteriorating; loss of sight is.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:01, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

The Amaterasu fire actually comes out of the eye, it makes it bleed. After his first day of using MS, Sasuke noticed loss of sight, but while fighting Kabuto, he spammed things and his sight doesn't appear to be any worsened by now since the transplant--Elveonora (talk) 14:40, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the clear up guys. (And if I knew how to sign the thing, I would have. I don't think I have an account)

You don't need an account to sign your post, just leave 4x ~ after your comment--Elveonora (talk) 23:05, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Got it. But err, is it known that the EMS known to last forever? Or is this still an assumption? (Also, and I know it is miniscule, but can we get rid of the use of "an" before the word "Uchiha"? I know the English language is annoying, but in the same way you would say "An honest man" Or "A URL" shouldn't it be "A Uchiha"? 65.188.41.37 (talk) 18:11, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Or is it ooo-chi-ha instead of yooo-chi--ha? 65.188.41.37 (talk) 18:12, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

nobody cares about that here you buffon, it is known omfg how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh?? an you can't be serious about the language part

You should watch out for how you refer to other people. His (or her, I don't know) question is valid, though simply reading the article should answer that, we write them for a reason. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:36, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

Buffon, eh? Well, the fact that it doesn't go blind doesn't seem to be in this article. The only thing that kinda looks like it is the phrase "permanently restores". Wouldn't saying that the eye cannot go blind make more sense or be a bit more clear? And wouldn't you at least understand someone's confusion when they see the EMS bleed? I know I thought that to be a sign that the eye is going blind, and I am sure others may have thought so. Not only that but the EMS hasn't been see much in the anime nor manga, so saying "how would they still be able to use their eyes so much eh??" doesn't make any sense. 65.188.41.37 (talk) 17:45, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure most of us didn't expect Sasuke being able to use his regular MS either. So excuse me for having some bloody questions. 65.188.41.37 (talk) 17:47, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

No once accuses you for having such question, it's more valid than the one with "a/an" lol. The Sharingan blindness has nothing to do with physical damage done to the eye, it has been specifically stated to stem from the eye "loosing light" (whatever that means) and sealing itself, I dare to assume it works in a similar way to Hyuga branch family curse seal but in a natural way (notice how Sharingan seals itself off after using Izanagi for example) Logically, changing the wielder of a blind eye wouldn't repair the damage, so this confirms it. While the strain from using MS techniques is an actual damage to the blood vessels in the eye. So in short, yes, eternal mangekyou is eternal, but it's user can still become blind in a real-world way like the eye getting destroyed, or cataract, glaucoma or other diseases etc.--Elveonora (talk) 18:27, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

The techniques and powers of the MS are eternal In a sense the MS can supports Itself while having a user, but yes of course the eye Is still vulnerable to things such as blood loss and strain etc but It may activate a protections seal of some sort i don't know, but I hope myself and others have helped-- User:Jmootam1999 Loves Naruto 18:34, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

The blood loss thing is making it unnecessarily confusing.... And excuse my doubt, Elveonora, but I don't think that is true. I don't think EMS would only stay eternal as long as amaterasu or any other damaging eye techniques (and I would say that being nearly all of them) isn't used..Sounds kinda weird and kinda defeats the purpose, wouldn't you say? Even if the only techinique that could make the eye blind is Amaterasu, it seems a bit off. I don't know, whatever. I guess we will see in the future. 65.188.41.37 (talk) 19:11, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

That's not what I said. The blood stems from there being pressure on blood vessels, it doesn't make the eye blind in itself. As I said, the blindness from over-usage is more magical/mystical it would appear--Elveonora (talk) 19:35, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

How are you confused because Amaterasu Is a Jutsu which requires alot of focus and Chakra to work In the eye, therefore tiring the chakra points In that area causing strain do you understand now --  Jmootam1999 20:10, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, so the pain or strain the eye comes with is not synonymous with it getting blind/losing its light? Seems rather strange but I guess it is kinda like Inzanami/gi. Okay, I get it now. Sorry and thanks everyone. I hope you did in some way understand how confusion could be engedered from all that... 65.188.41.37 (talk) 20:39, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I understand :) --  Jmootam1999 20:41, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Obito's fire jutsu
It should be removed from the jutsu box since it's a jutsu in its own right that can potentially be combined with Kamui. It's not a MS jutsu though.--Reliops (talk) 22:16, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * If it was a Jutsu on its own it wouldn't be this Jutsu, but a simple Gōkakyu. The spinning is what makes this Jutsu to what it is. Seelentau 愛議 22:26, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, but he did its namesake without Kamui like a generic Katon--Elveonora (talk) 22:48, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Obito used the very same technique in chapter 628 without using Kamui. They are clearly two separate jutsu that can be used in tandem.--Reliops (talk) 01:48, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Obito's Blast Wave Wild Dance is showing up due to a bug. When the page was first made, for some reason, it appeared twice in the list. After we saw Obito using it without Kamui's assistance, it was no longer considered a kekkei genkai technique, but only one of the links vanished. We've had that sort of trouble before. Back when the jinchūriki were first named in the artbook, there was a page for Han's steam-based ninjutsu. For some reason, that appeared three times in any infobox that would list it. Butsuma for example, debuts twice in the infobox for the chapter he debuts in. Simant has suggested this is due to some changes to the semantic data structure before and after the last update, the data and the data interpreter speak two different dialects, so to speak (pun not intended). Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * He did use it without Kamui? Where? oO Seelentau 愛議 19:11, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * He did, unless it was a mistranslation. If it wasn't then it's noteworthy that the name and appearance fit more when sued with Kamui ._.--Elveonora (talk) 19:13, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * He used it without Kamui in the opening pages of chapter 628. You can clearly see that there are no Kamui distortions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:03, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * The spiraling flames on said page are kind of indicative of Kamui's usage. SaiST (talk) 22:54, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * The fire jutsu that Obito uses do spin he just uses Kamui to giv it an increase in range and power.Whiteraven1 (talk) 22:59, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say the "range and power" were clearly in another league compared to when he first used the technique. Just because we don't see any lines indicating Kamui's distortion on that particular panel, doesn't mean it wasn't being utilized to bring about that result. I believe it would be safer to assume that it was until we see something more definitive indicating otherwise. SaiST (talk) 23:06, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Kishimoto has never hesitated to draw Kamui's lines to indicate its use, that's not something time consuming like drawing hand seals. There wasn't even focus on the eye. Also, is it so other-wordly that maybe the flames might be able to spiral by themselves? Regarding the size, I'd like to remind everyone that Obito does have Hashirama's cells, giving him a great chakra pool with which to make the technique powerful. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:42, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

Concerning the pre-requisites of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan
Now... Cerez, if you would please show me the example in which "integrate" was used to describe the transplant, I'd appreciate it. SaiST 14:03, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * "In finding a new master, his brother's eyes gained eternal light..."
 * "However, such an exchange could only ever take place between members of the same clan."
 * "By changing hosts, the younger brother's eyes found an inextinguishable light!"
 * "However, this trade can only be carried out among family members."
 * "It seems that by acquiring a new host, his brother's eyes gained eternal light..."
 * "Obviously, this "exchange" could only be done between clansmen."
 * "Because these are your eyes!!"

You are correct SaiST, integrate was never used. The integration is false information out of pure speculation it should not be on this wiki at all. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:33, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Enhanced perceptive
The article says that the MS gives the user enhanced perceptive, but the reference to the statement (chapter 480 page 6) doesn't seams to support it. Obito is thinking "Sasuke is of the Uchiha clan... and a ninja with MS. From an observers perspective Danzo... He's better then you". To me it sounds like Obito is comparing Danzo and Sasuke to each other, not Sharingan vs. MS. Are there any other instance where MS has been mentioned giving better perceptive or can I remove that part? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 11:39, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Remove that. If it were true, then MS users would have it activated all the time instead of 3 tomoe. I don't recall anything that would support it from manga, unless it comes from a databook, which is unlikely, so misinterpretation/speculation--Elveonora (talk) 12:12, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * No @Elv, they would not, because MS spends too much chakra, now, everyone knows that MS gives a lot of advantages comparing to sharingan, but not sure if enhaced perceptive is one of them. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:44, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it's accurate. It's a comparison of their observation skills; Obito points out that Sasuke's split-second faster reactions, his ability to take notice of those subtle details more quickly, were attributed to the fact that he was a true successor of the Mangekyō Sharingan. Thus, it offers — at least until it's "light" fades — greater visual acuity. —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 16:57, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I checked the chapter again and only see general talk about the characters. Do you have a quote as a example? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 17:24, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * "His eyes are superior to yours. He noticed what happened a split second before you would have..." —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 17:30, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I guess we are reading different translations. I see if Seelentau can help. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 18:53, August 2, 2013 (UTC)