Talk:Kotoamatsukami

Used on Mifune
It has yet to be confirmed that Danzo was using this on Mifune. Ao never said that Danzo was, All he did was reveal Shisui's power and that Danzo could be using it. --Rikudou Geass (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Didn't Kakashi also use a mind control jutsu on Zabuza during the Land of the Waves arc when they fought the first time?--80.222.117.199 (talk) 15:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Kakashi used the basic hypnotic abilities of the Sharingan. Nothing on the level this technique is supposed to be. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to get this addressed. In the convo regarding Shisui, Ao and Itachi seem to reference Shisui's ability as a trait of his actual eye power and the Genjutsu that he uses with them, not just Koto Amatsukami in particular, which is a specific Genjutsu that's related to Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan. Do we know for certain if Danzou uses Koto Amatsukami in particular as well since it's a product of Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan or if it's only a related Genjutsu that Shisui's eye power also possesses? Basically, do we know for certain if Danzou uses the same "exact" technique or another Genjutsu derived from Shisui's eye power and not just the Mangekyou Sharingan? Do the translations hint to this as well? --Rising Ras (talk) 05:43, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Limits
Danzo said he can't use this technique multiple times a day, shouldn't that be noted?

Unnamed → Shisui's
Should we move this to "Shisui's Mind-controlling Dōjutsu"? --NejiByakugan360 16:25, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not only Shisui's now...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 16:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point. --NejiByakugan360 16:28, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * See I think the whole "Unnamed" thing looks tacky in the info boxes, just give a simple name for now until the real name is revealed! maybe like Hypnotic Eye Technique or something AMTNinja (talk) 16:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Since eye contact isn't needed, that'll cause confusion....--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 16:31, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * yeah but the power itself does derive from the eye tho right? so it could work, but anyways Im just saying it needs a decent name for now AMTNinja (talk) 20:07, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Danzō has been the only one so far to have used this technique. Sure, it was originally Shisui's, but we never saw him use it. Calling it "Shisui's Mind-controlling Dōjutsu" or something like that would unnecessarily confusing.
 * Also, just because "unnamed" looks 'tacky' doesn't mean we should make things up. It is unnamed, full stop. Saying anything else would be giving false information. Although "unknown" would probably be better in the name box. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Im not saying we make up a whole new name for it like with kanji and all dat, but just for the infobox sake, we give it a name, and the article can say unnamed and such. I mean we DO want to make the site informational and good looking right! ;D AMTNinja (talk) 20:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't mind the infobox saying "unnamed" or "unknown". In fact, I mind it less than the infobox giving a name even though we don't have an official name. That's just misinforming people. --ShounenSuki (talk 22:12, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I think unknown's better. Also why didn't we make a page for the technique sasuke used on the samurai? Cooltamerboy (talk) 10:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC).


 * The technique Sasuke used on the samurai? What technique are you talking about? He only used his Kusanagi Sword: Chidori Katana as far as I remember. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh sorry because i got information from leafninja saying that sasuke used an unknown technique? Cooltamerboy (talk) 12:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC).


 * He doesn't use any unknown techniques, unless you're talking about that aura of hatred that appears behind him. However, that is as much a technique as the demonic aura that appeared behind Zabuza when he attacked Gatō's thugs, or the Sharingan "demons". --ShounenSuki (talk 13:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Does Sasuke have it maybe?
Sasuke might have it.Remember when he got inside Naruto's head and stopped the Nine-Tailed fox from giving him any power?Maybe he was using the mind-control thing.24.161.126.82 (talk) 20:34, September 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * He wasn't controling any1. He used his Sharingan to see inside Naruto, and thus appeared in his subconsciencenses (god know how). Plus doesn't sum1 say "Unique to Shinsui"?..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 20:36, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

kotoamatsukami is the ablility that was used by only Shisui-san through his mangekyou but since the eye has now been embedded in into the crow and the crow into naruto hence it now grants naruto the ability to cast kototamatsukami; but it can only be used by one who has Shisui-san's mangekyou and since Sasuke-san doesn't have that he can't use kotoamatsukami.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:29, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * It does not grant Naruto the ability to do fart. Itachi simply put it in Naruto because he was most likely to see Sasuke again and his drive to save Sasuke or something like that. Naruto serves as nothing more that an apartment complex and the crow's just another tenant.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:36, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

@cerez365: i didn't mean to give the impression that naruto can use the sharingan willingly but i meant for it to be used by naruto's crow (it's naruto's since it now is in naruto) as a response/counterattack against Itachi-san's sharingan.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:58, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * And I meant to give the impression that Naruto plays absolutely no part in what Itachi's crow does except to provide it with room & board.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:42, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

that's what i said as well!!--WashingAwaySins (talk) 16:52, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

type
is it ninjutsu or genjutsu? --94.183.155.7 (talk) 17:37, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's Genjutsu.

Doryoku
I think Shisui's tech is called Doryoku.

here's my proof.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/480/12/

I tried to translate it and it means "great effort"


 * "Dōryoku" means something to the effect of "eye power". It's synonymous with dōjutsu and is not the technique's name. ~SnapperTo 21:09, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Doujutsu: Seigyō Hitomi Kokoro
I once in my foreign language course I found a translator from English to kanji and kanji to romaji, and then be able to find this name: Doujutsu: Seigyo Hitomi Kokoro. I searched for a teacher and he said that mind control would doujutsu that way.
 * That name is neither proper Japanese, nor the canon name of this dōjutsu. Also, sign your posts. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:31, October 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well but it is the correct romaji and in fact you have to rely more on others, came here to help with some things, I'm new I do not know sign. = /
 * Not knowing how to sign is no excuse, as it is clearly explained at the top of a talk page when you edit it. The name simply makes no sense in Japanese. The rōmaji might be correct for the individual words, but the phrase as a whole is nonsense. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:03, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand, but it has to accelerate just to know the name of the Jutsu.Thank you for your attention.=D
 * Again, sign your posts. Also, what on earth do you mean? —ShounenSuki (talk 00:15, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Madara
Madara used this on yondaime mizukage, yagura right? Call me Red Dead Itachi.


 * Madara used something on Yagura, but we never learned what it was. The Fifth Mizukage only thought this was a similar technique, but it's not necessarily the same. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:41, December 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * But think about it, UNLIKE normal manipulation techs, yagura's eyes did not become sharingan. same with mifune. whereas with the kyuubi his eyes became the sharingan

Not all people under genjutsu show the caster's eyes, example Empheral used on Naruto by Itachi. Madara used a similar tech but was never named or revealed exactly what it was. Saying it was this is merely speculation. After all Itachi used a genjutsu to control someone as well in Pt. 1 when he tried to separate Naruto and Jiraiya. Not all controlling genjutsu are Shisui's tech, besides the fact Madara was mad at Danzo destroying Shisui's eye and not using it on the Kage to get the other tailed beasts just shows you it isn't the dojutsu, besides it was unique to Shisui and unless you had one of his eyes(one is destroyed) this particular doujutsu is as good as lost.Umishiru (talk) 03:14, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

only beast get the eyes as the caster when under sharingan's influence, no human gets the impression of the eyes. for example, the beast got the impression of the sharingan like the time when nine-tails was controlled by madara and like the time when while fighting diadera sasuke's snake got the impression of the sharingan; but no human ever gets the impression--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:34, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Dōjutsu no Shisui
I have reviewed the spoiler of chapter 459, and translation of the Naruto Forum user stream, he mentions that is Dōjutsu no Shisui, and then talks about the technique, I ask that you review the spoiler or chapter to see if it is something real name ... If my mistake sorry.
 * That basically means "Shisui's Dōjutsu", though I believe it would be Shisui no Dōjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:03, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ok obrigado Omnibender, Brasil é nós. x) LosErmanos

Is a Genjutsu
In chapter 211, is mentioned by Danzō is a Genjutsu that, inasmuch as he reveals the eye of Shisui ... Carries this information? LosErmanos
 * We've known that since the technique was first revealed in the Kage Summit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:38, May 12, 2011 (UTC)

it is a genjutsu since Itachi-san himself said that he implanted something into the crows left eye, pay attention to his following words "the ultimate 'genjutsu' of Uchiha Shisui's mangekyou sharingan... Kotoamatsukami"--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:39, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why do you pointlessly reply to months old discussion without adding anything substantial to it? Don't do it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi usage?
In chapter 540, we see Shikaku and Ao discussing Itachi's genjutsu powers. One of them sounds oddly similar to this technique. Similarities include;


 * Not needing eye contact to initiate
 * Takes control of individuals and influence their actions
 * And is a genjutsu originating from the Sharingan

With these similarities in mind, is it possible that these two techniques could be one in the same, or could we at least note these odd similarities in the article until more info comes out? --- Ten Tailed Fox 23:53, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * People are assuming he needs no eye contact


 * Doesn't mean it's the same as Shisui's abilities like that are normally unique to each Sharingan
 * As most Uchiha cast genjutsu.
 * Anything's possible though improbable.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:55, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * The reason most people assume he needs no eye contact is because Ao said he can cast the genjutsu from beyond the range of the sensor ninja, which we've seen to be posted at the edge of each camp. Also, its not an assumption to think that Itachi can preform such a feat. We know he can cast genjutsu just by pointing, so it isn't too much of a stretch to say he can do so by other means too. Lastly, it cannot be regular Uchiha genjutsu. Only Itachi and Shisui have been commented on having particularly strong genjutsu techniques, and we know for a fact that Sasuke's genjutsu are rather poor, according to both Danzō and Madara. --- Ten Tailed Fox 00:05, May 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * He didn't say he could cast the genjutsu from that range or take control of someone from that range. Mangastream's translator added that word. Shisui's genjutsu in any case is different from anything so far. It can be more liked to a "push" [From the movie of the same name] or "Inception" [From the movie of the same name]. His genjutsu seems to change the person rather than manipulate them constantly.
 * Randy Michael (talk) 00:16, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

remember the time when naruto and all went to save gaara from akatsuki and went up against Itachi-san? that time naruto was caught in Itachi-san's genjutsu when he didn't even look in his eyes, itachi-san later informed him that he can cast genjutsu by mere flick of a finger. maybe Ao was referring to that time?--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:43, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as we know, Ao never met Itachi, Shisui was never said to be capable of casting genjutsu by pointing at people. For all we know, we doesn't even have to look at the eyes or even interact with the person, just looking at them should suffice. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

The Final Fight
It can only be reactivate in a decade meaning Naruto probably won't fight Sasuke for the next ten yrs in the timeline.--Zero62422002 (talk) 19:24, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or he'll fight him without this technique. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:27, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, how would a crow know how to activate a Mangekyou Sharingan? Seelentau 愛議 19:44, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, Naruto will use it. As far as I know, it's not yet deactivated, so Naruto can use it. --Ilnarutoanime 19:52, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * The technique cannot be "deactivated" or lost per se. Naruto has no control of the crow so it would happen the same way it just did, Sasuke activates the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan→ crow recognises Itachi's Mangekyō Sharingan→ crow comes out and does his stuff.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:04, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

The crow's Sharingan is just a normal Sharingan now. When the Jutsu was active, it was a Mangekyou Sharingan. So for the Jutsu to activate again, the crow would have to activate it's Mangekyou Sharingan again and I seriously doubt that it is capable of doing so. Also, the crow isn't inside Naruto anymore, plus Itachi's way of talking about the Jutsu makes it very clear that the Jutsu can't be used another time (at least in my opinion). Seelentau 愛議 21:06, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

til now we know that Shisui's mangekyou sharingan has been used against Itachi-san and according to Itachi-san Shisui-san's mangekyou sharingan needs a decade to be available for use again. so according to the information we have uptill now the sharingan can not be used again until a decade unless there are other ways to reduce the time limit other than just using Hashirama senju's body cells. so it all states that naruto would not be able to use it against sasuke-san (well according to the available information we have uptil now).--WashingAwaySins (talk) 15:51, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * You said nothing we don't know already. And considering the Senju/Uzumaki distant relationship, I wouldn't be surprised if Uzumaki chakra, or even the Nine-Tails' yang chakra was enough to activate it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

The Most Powerful Genjutsu is...
I Know this is not the best place to discuss this.... but, What Genjutsu is the most Powerful? ¿Izanagi or Kotoamatsukami? Because in the new chapter Itachi said That Shisui created the most Powerful Genjutsu. --thedasilva1 (talk) 05:52, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * From the way Itachi says it in the raw, it seems to me that Kotoamatsukami is the strongest genjutsu of Shisui's MAngekyō Sharingan. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:48, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

so its confirmed Kotoamatsukami is not apart of itachis power?
Even Though he said it was and it said itachi"s jutsu changes the course battle or somthing to that effect in the opening page of chapter 550....

So its not his then its confirmed by you guys?Jodyjoe0 (talk) 06:15, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

crow
can naruto use the crow in the fight with Sasuke? I don't understand. Does the ten years rule apply? --79.240.48.122 (talk) 14:26, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * For me, I think he can, because it's not yet deactivated. --Ilnarutoanime 14:28, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually it is deactivated - crow's sharingan is normal on page 9, plus Itachi points out that "mangekyo has faded away" --89.230.138.98 (talk) 18:13, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think they're talking about the technique's effect, not the eye's ability to cast the technique. By "they", I mean the two people who posted above you, not the characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:17, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I think that somehow naruto will be able to use it, because if not he can't take sasuke back to Konohagakure alive.--79.240.49.106 (talk) 12:25, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Image
I don't think that the current image does a good job illustrating the technique. I think that an image of the crow at the moment it used the technique would be better suited. I don't think we should use the anime image of Danzō using it as well, since that was from a Byakugan perspective. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:08, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it really shows anything, but it isn't really one of those techniques that you can depict properly. Also, wouldn't the crow bit just be a black background with Shisui's eye?-

-Cerez365™ 20:31, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi as a user
hmm i think it's need to be added that itachi used kotoamatsukami1 why? ill explain basicly what im trying to say is that it is not an itachis' tech by any means but as he ahd acces to the eye he used it. not hsi crow-but he-itachi by setting everything up as it went. to furthemore clear what i mean is- danzou ahd shisui's eye and he sued kotoamatsukami -so danzou is a user of it, itachi ahd the eye n he sset thing s up like they went(although it was ment for sasueks ems) but still itachi "used" it. so no its not his tech but via shisuis help and his own geniuseness he used it;D i hope that made it clear. i think it should be added in the "jutsu users" bar itachi uchiha.that'd only make sense.
 * 1) shisui is dead, he can't use it anymore
 * 2) itachi had his eye
 * 3) he supplemented the eye so that it would cast a "protect konoha" genjutsu
 * 4) he implanted it into anruto

is kyuubi narutos power? is 8tails KB power? is shisuis eye danzous power? is samehada KB power? is katsuya tsunades power?

then wthis was itachis power/ technique for that moment. it only makes sense dont you think.! a dead person cant activate his MS and use genjutsu-itachi set that up.


 * You understand though, that at no point has Itachi used Kotoamatsuki yes?

Saying he used it, is kinda saying Orochimaru uses Wood Release because of what he did to Yamato.--Cerez365™ 12:14, August 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * He got Shisui's eyes→ still hasn't used them
 * Implanted into the crow→ still hasn't used it
 * Crow fulfils its intended purpose but on the wrong eye→ still hasn't used it.

then by your logic who activated the kotoamatsukami the bird? when a crow's will start casting highest level genjutsus ill eat my left arm;DD

itachi had the eye and he rigged it to be used on his sight. so if yo'll make a bomb with tier n itll set off sometime l8er you wont be responsible for its activation? dont be hating or anything im just pointing what is obvious-itachi made the kotoamatsukami activate which makes him a user of it if it only was once. im not trying to hype itachi or anything but he was the one who used it by riiging it/making it a timebomb. shisuii wasnt the one who used it. its like kakashi has obitos eye so kakashi isnt using MS but obito? aperantly ir is kakashis jutsu.

ehh i hope i made myself clear;)


 * had shisuis eye-couldnt use it due to 10year cooldown;D

>implanted it in crow-hasnt used it !>:made it cast genjutsu protect konoha when countering itachis MS by using komotoamatsukami-setting it off-> used it.(even if it was in the wrong place/wrong time)--

Kotoamatsukami was activated based on the conditions Itachi had set. No one "activated" it. In the same manner if it was used on Sasuke, we wouldn't be having this discussion.--Cerez365™ 20:19, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

i agree with cerez365. the jutsu was not perticularly activated by anyone. itachi-san did not activate it since he no longer weilds it, he just set up the conditions that were required for it to be activated on it's own. the crow did not activate it either since it doesn't have conscious or intelligence, it is just a body that was required for the eye to be embedded in. the jutsu's activation was just a response of coming up against Itachi-san's mangekyou sharingan.--WashingAwaySins (talk) 16:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

but he set it to activate in conditions when it sees his sharingan. so he amde it activate-thus using it! and yet again no it's not his tech. in 550 killer B even asks why didnt "you"-refering to iatchi as user of it. use it on sasuke faster-in which he replies that it has a 10 year cooldown.even though it was a failed plan it still was activated so itachi should be added as an suer BUT noted via shisuis eye and crow. it is only senseble n reasonable. not trying to hype/bash anyone.
 * He set up conditions for it to activate through unknown means that does not mean he used it. If it had been used on Sasuke as intended we wouldn't be having this discussion.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:33, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

People, enough with creating tons of sections to discuss the same thing, I just merged sections about the same topic, and would have merged more if there were no other topics in between. You don't need to click "add topic" to reply in talk pages. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

ok i get it, haters gonna hate. its like this if itachi didn't use koto amatsukami then: get it where this leads???????????????
 * 1) tailed beasts aint jinchuriki power?!
 * 2) hashiramas DNa isnt madaras power?!
 * 3) samehada isnt KB power?!
 * 4) obitos sharingan isn't kakashis power?!
 * 5) nagatos rinnegan which mdara implanted in himslef aint his power.?!
 * 6) orochimarus dna isnt kabutos power?
 * 7) great ninja treasures ain't kinkaku and ginkaku power?!

its been shown NUMEROUS times that it was iatchis power in manga:
 * 1) when itachi gave the crow to naruto " i've given you some of my power"
 * 2) "ITACHIS" jutsu changes course of battle i think kishi is giving us a hint no?!(550 1st panel)
 * 3) the crow is yours inst it?(nagato to itachi)
 * 4) "i layered a genjutsu on top of the enemy's jutsu"(itachi ch.550)

itachi set it up so koto amatsukami would be activated when it sees his sharingan and ITACHI made it cast a genjutsu protect konoha. thus he used it. it was a part of his aresnal as a gift from shisui. it makes him an user of it. it would be used anyways on sasuke and the misshapened accident shows no inferiority to it. and tell me that these aint fact i worte. it is only logical, but yeah haters gonna hate. it should by added like this:

users: shisui danzou (with shisuis eye) itachi uchiha (with shisuis eye implanted into crow)


 * Using caps lock and a lot of question marks and exclamation signs will get you nowhere friend. Read the numerous discussions that have been going on before you posted. The only thing Itachi used was whatever he did to implant the message into the eye. He did not/has not used the eye in any other way. If the eye were in his body or possession like all those other things you listed up there and he actually wielded it then it'd be "his power".--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:31, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

there are numerous posts above which imply nothing. yet kishis implies himself by writing it that it's iatchis power-ok i dont even care n i think it shouldn't be. but itachi should be added as user of it. so by all means explain how can a dead eye cast koto amatsukami by itself? itachi set it all up so it would activate on his MS sight. so by setting the thing up doesnt make him an user of it? like transcript amaterasu seal which he implanted into sasuke-the hell its stated as his jutsu? its thesame thing. kinjutsu thats how he activated it if you ask me.

ive only provided facts and sensible- se i mean sensible-logical explanation why itachi should be added as an user of it. and no its not his tech its shiuis but as he ahd his eye he gained acces to that genjutsu get where it leads-same like danzou did the only difference is that danzou ahd it in his eye socket whiule using it but itachi made it like transcript amaterasu seal and put it in crows eye via timer9timer being the waiting period to se his Ms )

Itachi used a fūinjutsu to implant a technique in Sasuke's eye. Back when those chapters came out, I was beginning to read the series, but I don't think Sasuke was considered a user of Amaterasu until he used it himself against B, after he awaking his on Mangekyō Sharigan. For all we know, all Itachi did was a "Transcription Seal: Kotoamatsukami". Same thing as the other, setting up an effect upon a specific trigger, in another's eye. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:13, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Exactly what Omnibender said, in that way he'd be a user of the "Transcription Seal: Kotoamatsukami" and not the technique itself.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:20, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

well the it'd be only logical to add it as transcript seal koto amatsukami. if you put it that way. about sasuke i meant that whilst it was his eye casting the technique is itachis and itachi is an user of it(i think you misunderstod me) and thats why its the same via koto amatsukami in crow:)--
 * No it wouldn't, there's no evidence that that was what he did. It's just a very good guess.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * what guess its said in the manga numerous time sthat itachi set that up that itachi activated/embedded shisuis Ns with that control for gos sake the first panel of manga 550 even states itachis jutsu-you clearly ainti itachi mooded person. facts prove othervise and im not trying to insult or anything-im being logical

The technique itself still isn't Itachi's. If had transplanted the eye into himself, it would be a different case, but it isn't. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Not the most powerful Genjutsu
I think the creator of the article kind of misinterpreted what Itachi said. Kotoamatsukami is not the most powerful genjutsu in general but only the most powerful that awakened in Shisuis Mangekyou. It is obvious that Izanagi is more powerful since it is able to turn the user invincible for a short period of time and the price you have to pay is much higher; you loose your sharingan. Also you can use Izanagi only once (per eye) which puts a limit to this jutsu while Kotoamatsukami can be used again and again, even if it takes a long time to reactivate. Senju DNA is required for both using Izanagi and using Kotoamatsukami more frequently. But I dont want to start a war about which technique is more powerful, we can only decide by the facts. And to me it seems that Itachi never called Kotoamatsukami the most powerful Genjutsu, only the most powerful that Shisui was capable of using. --217.187.37.133 (talk)Timiursa
 * "Kotoamatsukami is the ultimate genjutsu granted by Shisui Uchiha's Mangekyō Sharingan." That is what is said, it's probably you who are misinterpreting what is there.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:02, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * And the term used for doesn't have the exact same meaning as the English equivalent. Kotoamatsukami, Tsukuyomi, and Izanagi can all be called "saikyō" without contradiction, according to ShounenSuki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:17, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

as far as sieries have shown koto amatsukami is the strongest genjutsu without the risk that of a izanagi. only thing that can be a level higher than koto amatsukami is mugen tsukoyomi imo. but i think they should be classiifed as stringest genjutsu- all 3 of them have some special requirements izanagi-permanent lose of eye/ mugen tsukoyomi -10 tails/ koto amatsukami 10 year recharge w/o hashirama cells but.

in the mangastream translation i read it on itachi stated that shisui was the strongest genjutsu user in the uchiha clan, but it did not nessicarily state the koto amatsukami was the strongest. though the way they talked about it, it was ocular jutsu of the highest order.98.26.241.111 (talk) 14:55, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Shisui was stated to be the "strongest genjutsu user" of the Uchiha. Itachi also said, from that same mangastream translation: "The ultimate genjutsu of Uchiha Shisui's Mangekyō Sharingan".--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is very likely Itachi doesn't know Izanagi, in which case Kotoamatsukami would be the strongest genjutsu in his eyes... --89.230.138.98 (talk) 11:58, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * That would be a baseless assumption.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:39, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Mangekyou Sharingan?
I think mangekyou sharingan is not needed to use this technique. Why? Because Danzou used it. Danzou does not have mangekyou sharingan, but he was able to use this technique! Please, answer the question!--Gaara95 (talk) 15:47, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Danzo had Shisui's MS, he was just not seen using it. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 15:49, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

He had Shinsu's sharingan, but he never activated its mangekyou form, right? You said that mangekyou activation is required to use this technique. Does it mean that Danzou can activate mangekyou?--Gaara95 (talk) 15:57, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * He could activate it, yes. It was just not seen. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 16:02, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

Note
Shouldn't it be noted that it wasn't able to be detected by sensors? Fu wasn't able to sense it nor was C able to sense it. Ao wasn't able to sense it without his Byakugan. 119.154.78.140 (talk) 09:44, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since when has genjutsu been able to be be sensed O.o?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:35, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think he meant how they are able to sense the chakra being disturbed. Joshbl56  10:40, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's Karin o.o --Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:48, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is it only an ability of hers? I thought all sensor had some degree of being able to tell chakra disturbance in someone since they detect others by chakra. Joshbl56  10:53, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been trying to remember an instance where anyone but her has done that, but I can't seem to remember any. I know sensors have commented on chakra disappearing altogether but never disturbances in chakra. Inoichi even said he could track people via their chakra but it has to remain the same. At the same time I've been trying to figure out what's so special about the Mind's eye of the Kagura and I'm assuming this is one of those intricate abilities.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:58, December 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, her Minds Eye of Kagura sounds like the jutsu version of the Byakugan (Since it allows her to see chakra, tell disturbances, and has a huge radius). Joshbl56  11:06, December 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Her technique allows her to detect chakra, not see it. What we see when she uses the technique is just a representation of the technique for us to know she's using it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:33, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

Why Didn't/Couldn't Itachi Use Kotoamatsukami on Sasuke?
I believe this has been answered before, but I don't remember what the reason was. Does anyone have the answer for me? If so, thanks in advance. Diamonddeath (talk) 05:02, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * He said he couldn't because the dojutsu could only be used once in a decade. Meaning it had already been used before. He also said there were other things he wanted to do for Sasuke with his death..

Was it revealed what it had been used for previously? Diamonddeath (talk) 05:21, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:29, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

I brought the topic here but Cerez ignores it ... :(--Elveonora (talk) 13:38, June 24, 2012 (UTC)

infobox wrong
It won't let me edit it =( In the info box on the right side of the article, in the kanji section, it should be 別天津神, not 別天神

ㄌㄍㄓㄕ (talk) 04:36, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

It is correct. Check the raws for either chapter Kotoamatsukami is mentioned by its name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:18, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia?
One the first line in the trivia section, it says Danzo never removed the bandages that covered Shisui's Sharingan, but he did. I have a pic of it if you would like proof. Zelwolf (talk) 03:09, November 7, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf


 * He never removed them to use Kotoamatsukami. That is the point. The only time he ever removed his bandages was to fight those ninja on his way to the Land of Iron, but it has no bearing on this ability, thus the trivia. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 08:14, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Crow User
I think the Crow should remain listed as a user. It may not have had any control over when or how it would use it but it still used it. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:26, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. The crow still used the jutsu. Zelwolf (talk) 14:54, February 5, 2013 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * You yourself said no control over when or even how. How could it have used it? The only thing the crow did was react to its master's dōjutsu/presence and fly out. If anything Itachi would have more reason to be listed as a user.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:06, February 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * No choice would have been a better way of putting that. My point is still that it used it. Arrancar79 (talk) 05:04, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Differences
does anyone see ant differences between shisuis right eye and left because there usually is a difference--Shotcolla (talk) 22:18, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

No, there isn't any difference between Obito's right and left eyes either IMO. The difference stems from being used by different user with different skill and chakra--Elveonora (talk) 11:08, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Checking Naruto chapter 587 page 8. Tq 141.0.8.136 (talk) 09:52, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * There is nothing in that chapter that shows different eyes, except for Itachi's left eye being blind. No pairs of eyes have ever shown different patters at all. They're always a matching pair.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:25, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the OP was asking about a difference between left eye Kotoamatsukami and right eye Kotoamatsukami, not visual one.--Elveonora (talk) 15:09, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Itachi as a user round 2
Really dude? A couple of IPs try to help and just because you disagree with them you block all IPs from editing the page calling it vandalism?

The jutsu was cast in its most important instance plotwise. A chapter is named after it. Yet just because it doesn't fit your own narrow definition of what counts as "usage" you're not gonna call the guy who embedded it as a user? (And call everyone who does a vandal?) Foo used a puppet to cast his Mind Transfer Puppet Curse. So is he not the user of that technique? I know this is far from canon but even the folks at Crunchyroll realized this and wrote, "Itachi *uses* the ultimate genjutsu technique Koto Amatsukami to free himself..."

Did Shisui not bequeath the eye to him making him a de facto user? Just because he didn't put it in his socket (gross) while preparing the jutsu doesn't mean he didn't use it. If you're still so stubborn about your semantics, why don't you create a workaround to say "using his crow" or something like that, like you've done with the Third Kazekage's techniques for Sasori? 141.0.8.156 (talk), also 141.0.8.158, 15:20, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It seems to me to be similar application as Transcription Seal: Amaterasu. — S im A nt 19:24, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Thank you. Now could you revert it/unlock the article for crying out loud? 141.0.8.158 03:11, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * First of all, the technique's importance, named chapter or no is of no concern to us in listing Itachi as a user, in fact that's a flawed line of reasoning in any case. Itachi never used this technique, Itachi used whichever techniques it was to rig the genjutsu and inscribe the command into it. If he had used Kotoamatsukami to do any of those, it would've been useless to him in present day. The crow didn't use it either, all it did was fly out of Naruto's mouth and the eye did the rest.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 03:45, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * So then tell me this: did Foo not use his Mind Transfer Puppet Curse because he merely "rigged" a puppet to activate the jutsu when attacked? Did Sasori not use the Iron Sand techniques because he was merely using the Puppet technique to make the Sandaime perform the hand signs? Just because the rigging and the jutsu actually taking effect happened at different times doesn't mean that the rigging was some distinct technique. If you have to be that pedantic, let's make a compromise and add "Transcribed into Crow's eye" or something like that.
 * And what do you say about Crunchyroll's description? You may say, "That's not canon!" But they have good reason to have written that, which is this: "戦局を変えるイタチの術 ナンバー５５０:〝別天神〟"[raw chapter 550, page 1], "Senkyoku o kaeru Itachi no jutsu Nambaa 550: "Kotoamatsukami"", "Itachi's technique which changes the course of war. Number 550: "Kotoamatsukami"" Who in their right mind would not add a technique that is labeled in the manga as "Itachi's jutsu" to his list of techniques?141.0.9.61 (talk) 08:51, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good Point. Let's add Itachi as a user.JaZZBaND (talk) 12:36, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * First off, "no links ಠ_ಠ" Fū technique incorporates the technique itself with a condition of someone attacking the puppet. The entire thing is the Mind Puppet Switch Cursed Seal Technique not just the rigging of the puppet else it would just be the clan's regular Mind Body Switch Technique. Puppets are tools for use none of which would be possible without chakra from the user, no matter how human the puppet is. As for Crunchyroll, I'm sorry but I fail to see its bearing in any of this, all they do is animate the manga, they carry no weight in anything in this discussion. Again you seem to be putting too much emphasis on the fact that Kotoamatsukami is a titular technique and somehow that means it deserves to have Itachi as a user. Persons who have actually used the technique are listed in the infobox and the more unique cases (yes including the crow) are detailed in the article and left up to Kishimoto to give us the say so on listing them as users. At least that's how I remember it being decided for the last umpteenth time we discussed this.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:11, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Itachi isn't a user, he just had Shisui's eye in a crow that was his summon, not in his sockets.--Elveonora (talk) 13:26, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Ok allow me to apologize for my earlier comment. I was just trying to end this conversation. But, one thing I did believe earlier in time, was that we could possibly give Itachi the Time-Release Technique. Itachi's actions and past fit the criteria and its description. Don't you all agree?JaZZBaND (talk) 13:48, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * No need to canonize a movie technique--Elveonora (talk) 13:52, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sucker.141.0.9.61 (talk) 14:44, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'll admit your point about Fū's jutsu. It is different. As for the chakra for the genjutsu, if it did not come from Itachi, Naruto or the crow itself, where did it come from? Indeed puppets are tools. But animals (summoned or otherwise) are tools too according to Hayate Gekko.

"Kotoamatsukami is a titular technique and somehow that means it deserves to have Itachi as a user"

"Somehow"? I think you hardly read anything I wrote after the word "Crunchroll" except the fact that I had a link in there. Find yourself a copy of chapter 550 and READ it! Kishimoto has already given the say so. What part of "Itachi no jutsu : Kotoamatsukami" do you not understand? Not to mention Itachi saying, "I put my new genjutsu on top of this enemy's technique." (The "かけた", "kaketa" on page 8 imples the first person.) I doubt that you'll relent even if it's listed in the next databook.141.0.9.61 (talk) 14:44, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

The way I view it currently is the same way Itachi programmed Sasuke's sharingan to use an Amaterasu against Tobi when the latter used his sharingan (The Transcription Seal). After all, the genjutsu was Shisui's technique, and the eye that used it was Shisui's. There's no reason to list Itachi, since all he did was program it (Shisui's sharingan) to do something. And as far as the translations one thinks they may find, while possible, every other translation I've seen refers to "rigged", and never they it was his technique or anything of that nature. In fact, after mentioning what happened, he goes on to say it's Shisui's technique, not his. Though, by proxy, one could argue who can "use" the technique, since he made it happen, but that's just feeding speculation. --98.101.165.89 (talk) 20:24, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Rigged" is a pretty accurate translation of "細工", "saiku", but he's talking about the crow coming out, not the jutsu itself. Look at the box just above it. Your favorite translation might say, "I layered a new genjutsu on top of the enemy jutsu." He doesn't say anything like "transcribe", he just says, "ueni kaketa", "put on top of". But forget about whether he used it or not at all. He may have used a transcription seal, it may even be related to the time-release technique like the other person said. That would be speculation. What is not speculation is the fact that it is "Itachi's technique". Go back and read PAGE 1. (how many times do I have to say this?) It does not say "Shisui's technique", it says "Itachi's technique" and right below it "Kotoamatsukami". How are you people missing this?141.0.9.60 (talk) 04:23, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as translation goes, you don't need to "find" a translation. Just google "naruto raw 550" and go to the 3rd or 4th result. You can see clearly what I mean. If you have no clue about Japanese, understanding the meaning of the kanji is going to be difficult. But the katakana and hiragana are straightforward. Just look up a katakana table on Wikipedia or something and you should be good. Itachi's name is written in katakana and if you've watched any bit of the English-subtitled anime, you should know what "の", "no" means! "術" is "jutsu".141.0.9.60 (talk) 04:36, May 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because that's completely irrelevant, and it was used with Shisui's eye, of which is not attached to Itachi like it is Danzo -- that's how we're "missing" it. The name of the chapter is not "Itachi's..." either, it is simply 'Kotoamatsukami". So you're also mistaken, there. He also says that he embedded the command "Protect Konoha" in the eye, then the eye into the Crow. If you want to be really technical, the Crow casts it via the eye. Now, whether or not Itachi somehow rigged, yes rigged (I was referring to the eye, though I know rigged was used for the crow, the eye to use the technique is open for discussion, but he, himself, does not use it.--Taynio (talk) 15:51, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * right|Somebody said no links, but you guys seem to be blind even with links. Anyway, fair use. What technique do you think was labeled "Itachi's jutsu" here, then? -Karunyan (talk), also 141.0.*.*, 02:23, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * And what line of reasoning is "it's Shisui's eye so it can't be Itachi's" anyway? Is the Samehada not Killer Bee's weapon coz he never merged with it? And comparing it to saying Orochimaru used Wood Style is also absurd because Yamato is not a mere tool of war like the crow or the eye.141.0.9.75 (talk) 04:16, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

I changed the section title so as not to conflict with any potential links the section above with the same name. Regarding the topic, I maintain what I said in that other section. Itachi may have set the effect of the technique, rigging in the eye, but it's still not his eye. The only way I could consider Itachi as a user of this was if he had used it with his own eye, or if he had used it after implanting Shisui's eye. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:40, May 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * You people seem to be much more interested in links and pictures than in READING what anyone has written above. I too maintain my position. Why is everybody so obsessed about the "implanting" of eyes? Again I say, is Killer Bee not the user of Samehada because he never merges with it? Anything in Itachi's possession is "his eye". And again, the manga says, "Itachi's jutsu which changes the course of war", not "Shisui's jutsu which changes the course of war".141.0.9.60 (talk) 04:45, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * By your logic, at least what you've most recently said, the Itachi still wouldn't be listed as a user of Kotoamatsukami but Shisui's eye would be listed as a tool, not a user of the technique. Let's say that Itachi never had to use the eye on himself, would you then still consider Itachi a user? Again I submit to you, we're not listing Itachi as a user of the technique, he used whatever technique it was to rig the eye and what have view. I don't see that changing any time soon until the databook is released.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:24, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * My answer to your question would depend on what Kishimoto says if and when it (presumably) takes effect on Sasuke. If he says "Naruto no jutsu", Naruto used it. If he says "Itachi no jutsu", Itachi used it. There's no need to wait for the databook. Kishimoto has already written that it's "Itachi's jutsu". You don't need to "submit to me" anything. Just take a look at the picture above and tell me what he refers to as "Itachi's jutsu" there. Thank you.141.0.9.77 (talk) 15:59, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

When a man gives a kid a gun and that kid kills that man with that gun, was the user of the gun the man or the kid? Now, that might be a bit weird for an example, but it's the same with Kotoamatsukami. Seelentau 愛議 15:06, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * With the man making the arrangements that the gun would fire on its own.--~ Ultimate  Supreme  15:24, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's like asking if the Tsarnaevs used the pressure cooker bombs. Of course they did, and if the man made the arrangements, sure he did.141.0.9.77 (talk) 15:59, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, so Naruto is a user of chakra chains cause ghost Kushina did them through him and he also can use Katon as it has been done in an anime filler while he was unconscious. EDIT: and Jiraiya is a user of Amaterasu since he sealed it into a scroll that was held in his possession and Ten-Ten is definitely a Katon user cause of Exploding Dragon Strike and Shikamaru used a scroll full of water, thus Suiton--Elveonora (talk) 16:09, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're taking the words, "Itachi's technique" too literal there. It is very possible that Itachi may be listed as a user in the databook, but until then, what I'm assuming is the majority, doesn't believe it should be added to his list of techniques. Also, please do not remove semi-colon from the image, everyone here has the ability to click on links. A simple referencing of the image would've sufficed as well.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:19, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see you're relenting a little bit. I'll wait until you're fully convinced. Although, majority of what? We're not taking a vote here. I'm trying to convince you guys and when someone doesn't reply to any of my points (I've had only two points), I take them as either convinced or having nothing to say in opposition. If you do wanna take a vote, I'm ready for it. You know the protocols here, you start it. It's a (damn my impulsive nature to correct everyone) colon, not a semi-colon:) Sorry about the image but I had to make sure you saw it.141.0.8.140 (talk) 17:15, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, Kushina is the user of chakra chains though she used them through him (just like Itachi and the crow). Tenten and Shikamaru are users of the Scroll Summoning Technique much like Naruto's Shadow Clone Summoning Scroll. I'm not sure about Jiraiya, but if he had figured out a way to use Amaterasu in battle somehow, I'd say he's a user. Also, can you be more specific about the "anime filler"?141.0.8.140 (talk) 17:15, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, just like Itachi hasn't used Kotoamatsukami, he just scripted it so the eye responds to his eyes and uses itself--Elveonora (talk) 17:28, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * And that's not "usage"? Though that's not my main point. My main two points have been 1) what Itachi himself said directly referencing the genjutsu, "I put my new genjutsu on top of this enemy's technique." and 2) what Kishimoto says in calling Kotoamatsukami, "Itachi no jutsu".141.0.8.140 (talk) 17:45, May 24, 2013 (UTC)