Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-36006024-20180727165341/@comment-34194151-20180809024523

@LegionZero and LoneNinja

I'm talking purely running speed. Like if Obito and Raikage had a foot race pre war-arc. Obito couldn't even blitz Minato when he was using a stealthy approach, Minato was focused on the nine tails and obito had the element of surprise, but minato could still sense, react, and swing his arm around in the time obito took to try to tag him from behind. Obito uses kamui (mental reacion) plus sharingan precog to catch the arm after it slipped through. its a feat of CQC speed and reactions, but he the advantage due to having an unorthodox jutsu. To me that isn't much different than ayy touching minato's nose in the time minato had to move his arm, especially because Minato was only stopped by obito while he was in the middle of an action, whereas after raikage made the first move minato had the initiative to do his own action.

Then the battle resets. Obito and minato both run at each other, so how does that prove that Obito can run faster than the raikage? I don't think there is even proof that Minato has faster footspeed than Ayy,just better reaction time and CQC speed and control over his body, the feat Minato used was amplified by FTG which grants instantaneous movement.

The obito situation is also different because of the nature of his weapon. the chain was behind him, so obviously if minato phases through obito he will be hit by the chain. Minato couldn't instantly stop his momentum, and was also focused on analyzing the jutsu. But before obito could do anything else Minato uses FTG to get to a safe position.

Now the fight is on equal terms because Minato figures out what obito is doing. The raikage lacked kamui, so its not a complete comparison. Once that happened, minato and obito blitz each other at the same speed sure, and we know they are both fast because of the kunai. Minato threw the kunai mid way through the blitz. Then it became CQC speed. How fast can obito's arm tag minato, and how fast can the rasengan tag obito. You could argue that Obito had the advantage, but that could have been minato's plan along. The best way to defeat an opponent is to make them think they are winning, then strike them unexpectedly. Obito then overextends by materializng, then Minato uses the instantenous FTG speed to teleport to a rapdily moving kunai and tag him and catch that same moving kunai in mid air. So yeah I get it, both characters had to be comparably fast and reflexive for that whole sequence to happen the way they did. Obito is definitely faster than I thought previously, because Minato himself is a beast in running speed, outrunning the kages and all to the battlefield with ease.

So I guess its possible that he was kcm level speeds along, but still.

@Jason, how do we know when anything is bullet time in manga??? IDK. I have had to learn that from Legion zero and Lone actually, because while I read the manga I never could tell how fast characters were moving unless it was explicitly stated. I mean to this day, IDK how rock lee's gated speed in part one compares to even Ayy's speed. Or even weightless rock lee. Even kakashi said that rock lee was "fast" and seemed surprised by his speed, but idk how that same kakashi wouild react to seeing V2 raikage. Then there is the fact that throughout the war arc, we don't get proper references. Like think about how rediculosuly fast KCM Minato should be, but in the anime he looks like he isn't that fast. Think about how fast Kaguya should be, but she doesn't seem that fast either without context. ITs much easier to measure people's speed in relation to ninjutsu, because ninjutsu like rasenshuriken has a pretty fast speed, like hypersonic, yet we see Pains reacting and dodging without being blurs themselves. So I can say bullet time was used alot in the Pain fight for example. I'm asking you to explain it to me because I don't understand otherwise, but with my limited knowledge and going back and forth with the others, their contextual explanations seem to make sense. I think there was alot of PIS stupidity in the war, and I think Obito's speed might be a little hyped, but we also have to make leaps to assume naruto and the others weren't using their best speed. Kakashi and Gai keeping up with them could just as equally be Plot induced stupidity too lol. You can't really tell. Or it could be that Gai just was in the right place and right time, and had his speed amplified by pushing off a rock and using gravity to help accelerate. IDK lol.