Talk:Kekkei Genkai

Merge with List of Kekkei Genkai? --Kakashi Namikaze Talk, Contribs 17:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Divide up the page
I think this page should be made into three lists. One should be a list of elemental kekkei genkai (water + wind = ice), one would be for just dojutsu, and the third would be for everything else. Thoughts?

--Smmalis37 (talk) 13:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Others?
Um, what about Shikamaru and Ino, they have kekkei genkai's. No body is able to do what they do, but the Akimichi just specialize in their attacks, others can learn their technique of human boulder and partial expansion. Remember almost every kekkei genkai starts with ninja art, like Shikamaru and Ino. Also, wouldn't the fourth Hokage fall into kekkei genkai, his teleportation technique belongs solely to him and could be passed to Naruto. Only his chakra could work with the seal, father and son chakra are same DNA.
 * Shikamaru & Inos special techniques are clan related, just like Akimichis human boulder. Ninja art dosen't mean that something is genetic. And fouths teleportation technique was something he created himself with special seals. Jacce 13:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Those would be Jutsu, they are clan related, but they are not blood related, which Kekkei Genkai are. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Aug 13, 2008 @ 17:43 (UTC)

Chakra Vampire Bloodline?
What about the Chakra Absorption Ability of Yoroi Akado and Jirobo? I could of sworn I read somewhere that that ability was a kekkei genkai. Jupiah 01:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Both of those were Jutsu related, they weren't bloodlines. 99.228.172.121 03:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Curse Seal Bloodline?
Well what about Juugo's cursed body? He never uses handsigns and doesn't need any kind of seals to transform his body, and Orochimaru created his cursed seals using enzymes he extracted from Juugo's blood. True, it's never explicitly called a Kekkei Genkai, but it obviously is genetic, rather than learned. It really should be listed here. Jupiah 11:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a special case with Juugo, and as far as we know it's not related to his heritage. Suigetsu Namikaze ( T | C ) 18:34, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Mokuton
Isn't the Mokuton considered to be from the Senju clan of the forest?

Mokuton was Hashirama's, and his alone, no other member of the Senju had it, so we don't consider it to belong to the clan, listing it as such would give the idea that various if not all members of the clan possess it, like the Byakugan or the Sharingan, which is not the case. Omnibender - Talk 00:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Couldn't the same be said about the Shikotsumyaku of the Kaguya clan in that case? The only known possessor of this Kekkei Genkai was Kimimaro, to the point that it's said the rest of the clan feared him.

Shikotsumyaku is like the Sharingan, only scarcer. Example, every Hyuga is born with the Byakugan, Uchiha's have the genetic potential but need to be in a situation that brings the Sharingan out, the Shikotsumyaku is a one person per generation thing. Omnibender - Talk 19:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, I guess.

Mokuton isn't really a kekkei Genkai if only Hashimaru posses it.User:DieJARJARDIE 17:53 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Kimimaro was the only one to use Shikotsumyaku in his clan which he admitted himself it was a Kekkei Genkai. --Silver Ninja 01:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Add at jutsu
I propose that we should add Kekkei Genkai at jutsu list because it's still an important skill. If we add weapons there we should add this 2. It was said nowhere that al Uchiha's had Sharingan and that all Hyuga's had Byakugan. It is only said that they could use it. Also from Kaguya clan only Kimimaro had the Kekkei Genkai. Therefore i think it will be better if we add it to jutsu list
 * With the current system Kekkei Genkai are already handled using which is turned into a title icon. The new infobox will have a separate parameter. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 26, 2008 @ 11:10 (UTC)


 * Oh ok . But still I do think jutsus like Mangekyo Sharingan should be added. Also does Sharingan count as Kekkei Genkai for Kakashi?

Combining Elements
Kakashi stated that combining elements is a kekkei genkai....
 * And do you have any point? Jacce 06:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is what I've seen elsewhere, let me make this very clear: combining elements is an example of KG, not all KG is element combo, not all element combo is KG. Once I saw someone arguing furiously that Sharingan is Fire + Lightning because those are Sasuke's chakra natures. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Release
When was it stated that Crystal Release is a kekkei genkai? Jacce 15:46, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Kurama
Why is there a random section on the kurama clans kekkei genkai it really should be delted and merged with the kurama clan article or have its own page. User:DieJARJARDIE 17:53, 15 April (UTC)

I started a new page but delete the section incase there was any problems User:DieJARJARDIE 18:19, 15 April (UTC)

Iron Sand is Kekkei Genkai?
When was it every mentioned that the Iron Sand was a Kekkai Genkai. It is never even said? Cooltamerboy (talk) 02:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC).


 * Third databook. ~SnapperTo 02:59, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Lava
It's in the kekkei genkai category, but it's not showing up on the list. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:47, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yes shouldn't we add the dust, blaze, boil and lava releases... They all seem to be kekkei genkai

Dust and Boil are already there, but I wouldn't add Blaze yet, this would mean Sasuke has two kekkei genkai, we'd need an explanation on how that happened. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:28, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

It shows up now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:29, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Citations on Kekkei Genkai
Could someone please cite the chapter/databook/episode where Crystal Release, Dust Release and Storm Release were stated to be Kekkai Genkai? I can't remember anyone saying they were bloodlines, or even implying it for that matter. Heck, so far as I can remember, the only mentions of Dust and Storm were a single jutsu name each.

Also, why is just about every technique ending in -ton being assumed to be a fusion of two basic chakra elements (even when no one has any idea which elements are being fused)? Blaze isn't a fusion (we know that's actually the Amaterasu being shaped) and Dust doesn't seem to be either (or at least, it isn't obviously one). There are plenty of Kekkai Genkai that have unique jutsu that aren't elemental fusions, so it seems a bit odd to assume each new release must be a fusion until proven otherwise. Altered Nova (talk) 00:13, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Theres never going to be any thing on crystal element in the databooks because that was an anime only kekkei genkai. Narutosagemaster (talk) 00:51, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Every Release (i.e. every technique with a prefix ending in ) ever shown in the manga has been an element. Each and every single one. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise.
 * It was clearly stated that there are only five basic elements and it was all but blatantly said that any other element is a combination of two basic elements.
 * It was clearly stated that to combine two basic elements and create a new one, a kekkei genkai is required.
 * Blaze Release is the only element shown to be significantly different from the others, in that it was created through a dōjutsu and is seemingly used to manipulate fire. However, it could still be a combination of two basic elements. It is, without a doubt, a kekkei genkai.
 * Storm Release is clearly a combination of Water and Lightning Release. This means it is a kekkei genkai, as per point 3.
 * Dust Release is rather obviously an advanced element, as it behaves different from any known element. The Tsuchikage showed the ability to use two basic elements, so we even have the likely components of Dust Release.
 * I'm not getting into Crystal Release, since that is anime-only.
 * --ShounenSuki (talk 02:02, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

What two elemtents has the Tuschikage been seen using? Also I think that Dust could be a combination of earth and wind maybe because when wind grinds down earth it turns to dust. Just throwing that out there. Narutosagemaster (talk) 02:59, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Dust being earth and wind is the common theory, but it's still a theory, so we don't list the wind part. So we're sure we consider Blaze Release now, cause it still hasn't been added to categories and templates as a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:53, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Well, no one seems to have opposed, so I'll go ahead and change Blaze Release to kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:01, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

List of Kekkei Genkai
I think we should have a list of anime only kekkei kengai because the list we have is very confusing as to which are real or not Narutosagemaster (talk) 00:58, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

sand manipulation
shouldnt gaaras sabd manipulation since it is passed down from the ichibi
 * Nope. Lava Release is a kekkei genkai, but because Roshi got it from his tailed beast rather than having the bloodline, he's not listed as having the kekkei genkai. Also, there's no such thing as Sand Release, it's not an advanced nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:44, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * shouldnt gaaras sand be listed as a power like Roshis? I know its not a chakra nature but its a beasts power given to him like roshi got from the 4- tailed beast, I'm not sure if its a kekkai genkai but it sure still be listed somewhere.

well, if its not there cant I make a sand manipulation page?
 * It's not an advanced nature, and it's not a kekkei genkai, no point in making a page using the same logic as that. The way I see it, the closest thing we have is hijutsu, but even with it, we don't make articles on styles, like the Nara clan shadow techniques. We have articles for individual techniques, but not to the style. If this was more like the Gentle Fist, which is a named style from which several techniques stem, then it would be another matter. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:53, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but there are techniques that derive from it like Sphere of Sand Successive Shots: Sand Drizzle, Third Eye, Ultimate Absolute Attack: Shukaku's Halberd (Anime only), Ultimate Absolute Defense: Shield of Shukaku, Armor of Sand, Desert Suspension, Feigning Sleep Technique, Prison Sand Burial, Quicksand in the Style of a Waterfall, Sand Binding Coffin, Sand Binding Prison, Sand Clone, Sand Drizzle, Sand Shuriken, Sand Waterfall Funeral, Sand Waterfall Imperial Funeral, Shield of Sand, Sky Sand Protective Wall. So ther should still be a page on it it, im not saying its a kekkai genkai anymore and i know its not an advanced nature, but there should still be a page on it, it is of naruto, and shouldnt this site cover EVERYTHING about naruto?!

Pretty much everything there is to know about sand manipulation is already available at the ability section over at Gaara's article, making an article about it unneeded. A redirect to that section is would be enough. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:24, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Thinks now i can work on other things.

This is getting big you should make this as ans archive 2

Suigetsu liquid
Would this ba a kekkai genkai since it was only used by him or is this the result of many experiaments by orochimaru?
 * Not enough info on it, and I don't think the third data book called it a kekkei genkai, only a Water Release technique. You know, not all techniques with one user are kekkei genkai. If it mentioned as such, we'll add it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Spiral dojutsu
Could we add ths to kekkai genkai oand make a page for it or do we have to little info?
 * Hardly enough info to say anything at this point. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Blaze release not a kekkai genkai
No proof of blaze release being kekkai genkai because not all Uchiha are able to do it. So it cannot be an Uchiha clan kekkei genkai. It's just control of Amaterasu that's different from person to person. NarutoFanDude (talk) 23:25, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Not all Uchiha have Sharingan, and it's a kekkei genkai. Blaze Release is something Sasuke got after getting his Mangekyō, which is a heightened form of the Sharingan, which is a kekkei genkai. For all effects, if it is derived from the Sharigan, it is a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:21, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, all Uchiha DO have Sharingan. Unless you produce proof that there are Uchiha's without sharingans, I'm going to have to say you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no blaze release. It's just a control over Amaterasu. For it to be a kekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan ALL Uchiha members would need to be able to do it. Of the three members who have shown the use of their mangekyou, only two of which were able to do it. The third member was not, which means it isn't a kekkei genkai. It's just a control over Amaterasu that stems from potential and ability, it's not even a release so it certainly can't be a KG. NarutoFanDude (talk) 23:25, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * You assume all Uchiha wake up with the Sharingan activated. We know from the bat, that is not the case. With the simple out of the way I will be answering the rest in bullet form.
 * There is a Blaze Release. See Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi.
 * Because, based on what we know, Blaze Release manipulates Amaterasu. Amaterasu is derived from a Kekkei Genkai. Blaze Release is a nature release, thus it is itself, a kekkei genkai.
 * No idea what you're talking about with the three people who use their Mangekyos.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:30, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sasuke himself said that not all Uchiha had the Sharigan when he first learned Kakashi had it. And as far as I remember, I don't recall his mother or his aunt and uncle having Sharingan. Not all people have to have something for it to be a kekkei genkai, Shikotsumyako is like that, only one person in a generation has it. And Blaze Release is a release, Sasuke said Enton, which translates to that. You're the one with little understanding on how things work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:33, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

All that page means is that someone for whatever reason, someone thought Sasuke manipulating Amaterasu was a release. It's not, Amaterasu is not it's own elemental affinity, it's STILL fire element, so it cannot be it's own release. And no, all Uchiha don't wake up with it activated, but it always activates eventually.

There are no Uchiha who simply DO NOT HAVE. Which is not the same as HAVE NOT AWAKENED. There are NO Uchiha who completely do not have sharingan. BECAUSE it is a kekkei genkai, ALL of them must have it.

Which is why Blaze release cannot rightfully exist, nor can it be a kekkei genkai. For a it to be a kekkei genkai it has to be unique to a WHOLE bloodline. Sharingan is unique to a bloodline, everyone in the bloodline DOES have sharingan even if they don't awaken it. Mind you, there is no proof of an Uchiha who could not awaken their sharingan. But everyone in the bloodline CANNOT use the so called blaze release. NarutoFanDude (talk) 23:42, February 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh titans.
 * It means it's an element. It's called a release. It's a release. Got a problem with that, take it up with Kishimoto.
 * They all don't have to have it. Did you ignore what Omni said? Wood Release is a kekkei genkai, yet only the First Hokage had it.
 * I disproved this with my last two points. Again if you have a problem with Blaze Release, take it up with Kishimoto. He made it. His rules.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:46, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sasuke used the different name. If that's him being cocky about his ability, someone will have to point that out in the manga or in a databook. Until they awake the Sharigan, they don't have the Sharingan. Having a trait doesn't mean you'll manifest it, look up genetics somewhere if that isn't clear, there are environmental factors that determine whether they'll activate it or not. There are four Uchiha character pages in this wiki that aren't known to have awakened the Sharigan. One is likely to have awakened it because he was part of the police, but Sasuke's mother, aunt and uncle were never hinted to have awakened it. And again, kekkei genkai doesn't mean you automatically get things. The bone thing Kimimaro had was a kekkei genkai that showed up once in a generation in his family. Only Hashirama had Wood Release in his clan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:48, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

This still doesn't prove that blaze release is an actual release, which I don't believe it is. Because it's NOT an element. For blaze release to be real, blaze would have to be an actual element. Even if you substituted blaze with amaterasu, amaterasu is NOT a different element, it's STILL a fire element.

I concede the point about wood release, but we also don't know whether or not it was present in any of his family because there are so few of them ever mentioned. The only one even still alive is Tsunade and like Omni said, having a trait doesn't mean you'll manifest it. So Tsunade might have it, and just never exhibited any signs of it.

Because not manifesting it does NOT mean you don't have it. It just means it never awakened, or didn't awaken at the time. It's not really a sure thing that the very few uchiha members who weren't able to use sharingan would never be able to use it because they died. NarutoFanDude (talk) 23:58, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said before, if that's Sasuke being cocky about his ability, someone will have to point that out in the manga or in a databook, and until that happens, we'll consider Blaze as a separate nature. Manifesting or not, genetics still say that there is a change of not inheriting traits, for all effects in this wiki, if you're not shown or known to have something, you don't have something. If Uchiha's died before they could activate the Sharingan, it means they don't have it. Consider having something as having access to it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:03, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. Yes it is an element. It was called which is Blaze Release. Again if you a problem with it, take it up with Kishimoto. Not us. Don't matter what it does. It's an advanced element because it is NOT one of the five basic ones.
 * And as such, does not disprove our argument.
 * Per above.
 * Because two of your arguments have been disproven/resolved, I can (hope) this little back and forth is over.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:05, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

That's fine, but I don't believe it is a seperate nature because you said yourself before that it manifests from amaterasu. And Amaterasu is known as a fire element. I don't care what Sasuke called it, that does not automatically make it a different element. For it to be an advanced element, it would need to be the combination of two elements and there is no proof of that totally besides the fact Sasuke only knows fire and lightning elements as far as I'm aware, and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't make something like the black flames which from amaterasu. Notice, Sasuke was incased in Amaterasu when using said technique and as far as I know hasn't exhibited it any other time. Your beliefs are fine, but you haven't ACTUALLY disproved anything and I'm entitled to mine as well. I'm glad this is open for more discussion because I'd like know what other people think about it and really it's only a back and forth because for whatever reason you seem to think only your views are allowed. NarutoFanDude (talk) 00:10, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh my dear Lord in heaven....Look. Enton, Blaze Release, whatever you want to call it, is both Kekkai Genkai, and an advanced element. Like the others said, only Kishi himself (whether it be through the manga, or through a databook) can disprove that it isn't. But think of this; Why in the sweet name of Moses would Kishimoto put "Enton: Kagutsuchi" if it wasn't exactly that? Listen here is a few things I'd like to point out;


 * 1) Enton is a release stemming from the Mangekyo Sharingan, meaning those without the said eye technique cannot use it. I'd further that by saying that those who don't posses Uchiha blood cannot use it, though my reasoning for this is that Kakashi who also has the eye has not demonstrated Amaterasu, much less Enton. This makes it Kekkai Genkai.
 * 2) The flipping release itself, is called Enton, translation Blaze Release. You wanna know why it's called that? Kishi only uses Release after the name of an element, to signify advanced Nature Transformation. Yes, we don't know what it is made up of, though I'm pretty sure it's made up entirely of Amaterasu. The Blaze Release nature is nothing more than the manipulation of the black flames, but that doesn't disqualify it from the Nature Release lists. Kishi could be expanding on that topic and you wouldn't know, now would you?
 * 3) Here's another thing, Kishi wrote it. That means that it doesn't really matter what you interpret, to be blunt, it means exactly what he said. Enton, Blaze Release.

My Lord, reading this conversation gave me a headache, because Omni and Ultimate had to repeat their point over and over, and it's pretty clear if you read the panel it appears in, what it is called, and how it is applied. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 01:05, February 15, 2010 (UTC)