Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-43403813-20190805194702/@comment-43403813-20190810234257

This discussion will get no where considering I have my own speculations and evidence, whilst you have yours.

Saying that Garuda being summoned was a mistake, is moot. If you wanted, you could say that about anything in the plot that you didn't like, didn't agree with, or could be construed as a plothole. Juubito not being allowed to use Kamui is bs, but it still happened, and the majority of people don't care about that. The constant changes to how someone acquires the Rinnegan is bs, it's a whole bunch of retconning. This summoning of Garuda could be the exact same thing. Hence, blaming Kishimoto for something that happened in the manga doesn't make a good argument.

This argument around Kamui can go back and forth dude, absence of evidence does not constitute impossibility. All of what has happened in Kaguya's dimensions and what we understand of Pain's abilities creates the theoretical grounds for Pain to use a reverse-summoning out of Kamui. By all means, find something that definitively disproves this, but using "mistake" or "no evidence" doesn't mean crap. For example, you say that Flying Thunder God cannot escape Kamui, and there is literally no evidence to prove that, you only speculated, but did I use that as an argument against you? No. I still understood your point that Obito knew Minato and must have observed his FTG thoroughly in order to be that convinced of victory, but that doesn't stop me from theorising that Minato could leave a Hiraishin seal in the real world to escape Kamui.

I already admitted that Sasuke has more chakra than the Nagato I was talking about, but I still think it is 2x. You're thinking that I'm underestimating Sasuke when in fact I'm not. 2x the amount of chakra Nagato has is insane, and I'm not gonna bother to re-analyse the fights Sasuke had partaken in, as I stand by my points, it's not my problem if you don't agree. Your justification for Sasuke's chakra being "bajillions" more than Nagato's is the fact that he is emaciated from using the Gedo Mazo? Even in his crippled form, he accomplished amazing feats in his invasion of Konoha, and expended a crazy amount of chakra for a single person. Moreover, Nagato being emaciated held a much heavier impact on his mobility and physical strength, as opposed to his chakra supply. I also want to note that Nagato coughing up blood may not even be due to a shortage of chakra. Itachi was coughing up blood due to an unnamed illness, thus that was not necessarily an indicator of low chakra levels. Nagato has literally been impaled by metal rods in his back, has an extremely malnourished body, and his lower half body was completely scorched by Hanzo. I'm pretty sure that more than suffices as a long-term health condition, explaining why Nagato would cough up blood.

It only says that the level of power output of a Perfect Susanoo is comparable to a Tailed Beast, not chakra usage. Susanoo's usage of chakra acts like a sap steadily draining chakra over time; Sasuke described it as a strange aching pain in the cells in his body. With this in mind, the amount of time that Sasuke had his Susanoo open continuously, lasted for a handful of panels. In his fight against Juubi Madara, he activated his Susanoo for less than a minute chopping away at Chibaku Tensei's, and that was it. For Kaguya's fight, it was even less than that, he just bumrushed Kaguya and then she immediately melted the blades. The last part of that battle was taken up by Kakashi's Susanoo. If anything, that still puts Sasuke's chakra at just double Nagato's chakra.

Konan has always been protective of Nagato, its in her nature. She had been warning Nagato for different things throughout the entire fight, it's not like that indicates Nagato's inability to do something. We can clearly see that he still had more than enough chakra, as he successfully created a Chibaku Tensei anyways (that he intended to enlargen), and to top it off, he executed a Rinne Rebirth reviving thousands of shinobi/villagers.

I still think you're underestimating Chaotic Shinra Tensei. Your example of Creation Rebirth has the exact same facet of using a ridiculous amount of chakra in one go, it literally says it on the Fandom page accompanied with evidence in Chapter 169. Without a doubt, Pain used up a huge chunk of his chakra whether you like it or not by using CST, and I still estimate that it would be around half of his whole chakra supply. Both examples of life-shortening jutsu have been deemed to reduce chakra levels by a vast amount in one go.

How does Sasuke's cooldown of his Rinnegan TP indicate that he used a lot of chakra, but Pain's fat cooldown of Chaotic Shinra Tensei doesn't? We know that it was only his Rinnegan TP that needed a cooldown rather than all his Rinnegan powers, because he realised he couldn't use Rinnegan TP during his last skirmish with Naruto. Additionally, he had still shown the ability to use the Preta path, implying that he had access to his other Rinnegan abilities. The only Rinnegan techniques that we have seen Sasuke use outside of Chibaku Tensei is Bansho Tenin, the absorption of the Preta path, and his special teleportation technique. Bansho Tenin doesn't take much chakra to use, and Preta path doesn't take any chakra to use at all, implying that Sasuke's Rinnegan TP was the brunt of his chakra usage, next to Chibaku Tensei, in his Rinnegan for those particular fights. Even still, we haven't seen Sasuke's teleportation technique enough to deduce the exact amount he uses in order to trigger a cool down. Pain's Deva path has been seen enough that we can note its base usage at 5 seconds, and any stronger variants as even more. If we wanna argue that Sasuke's Rinnegan TP cooldown shows that he has used chakra, then that means throughout his whole time fighting Juubi Madara, Kaguya and Naruto with Rinnegan TP, its first cooldown happened towards the end of Naruto's fight? That would imply he didn't even use much chakra by using that technique in the first place. Ergo, his usage of Rinnegan TP didn't contribute much to the diminishing of his chakra supply, rendering it less than the "bajillions" more than Nagato's that you insistently reply.

I decided to take a look at the Rinnesharingan page, and sure enough, it says that it only has the ocular powers of the Sharingan, accompanied with evidence. From that, we can deduce that Kaguya's dimensions are even more similar to Obito's than we thought, and this disputes the idea that Kaguya's dimension is formed by Rinnegan visual prowess. That being said, this doesn't mean that Sasuke was able to summon Garuda to the dimension because of his Sharingan, as the Sharingan doesn't have any direct influence over summoning jutsus, whilst the Rinnegan obviously does through the Animal path. Also, Sasuke doesn't use his Rinnegan to actually move between dimensions, he was only able to because he saw Sakura's burnt coat through a wormhole that Obito created: Sasuke's Rinnegan doesn't give him the ability to move between Kaguya's dimensions by himself.