Talk:Sand Cocoon

???
"Because this and Shield of Sand are somehow different."--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 15:57, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Taijutsu is effective to that, unlike it is to this. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:08, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not true. Spikes are additional: He used them against Sasuke, but didn't against Deidara. Plus, Lee could only break through the Shield of Sand after opening up the Eight Gates, which Sasuke cannot do, hence he didn't have sufficient taijutsu to break it...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 16:09, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Chapter 82 proves you wrong.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:15, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * How exactly? Weakening it =/= breaking through it. O.o And Lee's speed allowed him to bypass it, which Sasuke himself stated to to have.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 16:22, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Lee punched a hole through the sand. Sasuke's punch didn't make a dent. You questioned how they are different, and now you have your answer. Also, the name is a English place holder, which is not a reason to move a article.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:01, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Lee punched a hole through the sand. Sasuke didn't make a dent." WRONG. Chidori. You know, the whole "Gaara is bleeding so we must retreat" situation... O.o--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:06, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Did some research: Your, so called, "technique" has two different names provided in the set: this (which is another name for Gaara's "Shield of Sand") and this >.> An even bigger reason not to keep the article...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:25, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Kanji
Does anyone know it?--Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:01, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Stop adding the page without a source or I'll have to issue a block for adding fanon content. You can add it, then have a discussion about keeping it, when you actually have a source for it...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:05, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Page was only added once, just like the amount of times you requested the source, that could be found blindfolded. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:34, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * A "source" means "a japanese source", since the kanji could easily be the ones of Shield of Sand and is a mistake english translations do a lot. We record the manga, not an english adaptation of it.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:37, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * I gave you a source, it's just not to your approval. Also we do record the English adaption, hence English anime names in the infobox. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 18:03, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Eh, isn't the picture on that card from Gaara's use of Suna no Tate? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:15, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * There's also this. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:38, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * It is.... @Saru: While it would be true, names we use come from a Japanese source, since we don't use viz/sub translations. So if you don't have a source for it, it's best not to add it, especially from an unreliable material.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 21:00, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't use English names because we have the Japanese names already, in this case, we don't. Also, unless there's a policy or discussion, all that is your opinion.


 * And as the article listed, the technique uses a hand sign and was stronger than its parent technique against taijutsu. That's proof enough to warrant an article, named or unnamed. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:23, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * a) Don't make-up new cases for things that benefit what you want. b) So what? A lot of techniques use different hand seals (eg. Fireball Jutsu) and sometimes they do not. It's Shield of Sand, and the card you provided "as a source" has the exact same technique (but in Part II) as Shield of Sand's other name ("absolute defence"), hence - the same. Plus, you said "it's unbreakable", but it's false, as Sasuke broke through it with Chidori.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 12:27, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Waiting for that policy or discussion to be linked that forbids use a English Name as a place holder :) You started this talk page off by asking what the differences are, i explained them in full and now your claiming that a technique that acts automatically, requires a hand seal. That makes no sense, just as much as you bringing up Chidori in a discussion about it's defence against taijutsu. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:46, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Again, you don't have proof that it's not "Shield of Sand", when the exact same "technique" has the name of Shield of Sand... English Translations are screwy, so we record the manga, not an english adaptation of it. And Chidori doesn't require taijutsu? Can it be thrown now? News to me... Hand seals don't mean jack s@it since sometimes techniques have them andsome times they don't and sometimes they have two sets of different hand signs, just 'cause. This back-and-forth is becoming annoying because you're literally ignoring all of my arguments that claim how stupid this discussion is, from your end, in the first place.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 12:52, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * The proof is the the handseal and the superior defence against taijutsu and your speculating that there 1 and the same because handseals can be used in techniques, even though Gaara never uses handseals with Shield of Sand. Right. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:01, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * How is it superior when both of them can and have been broken through? And for the millionth time, what is your basis for the article if the card game (a.k.a. YOUR SOURCE) claims it to be "Shield of Sand"? Again, hand seals don't mean jack s@it, if they would, we would have two separate articles for "Fireball Jutsu".--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 13:04, May 7, 2016 (UTC)

Ok, just checked the episode: Your "hand seal" argument is completely invalid. The hand seal wasn't for the shield, it was for Gaara's transformation into Shukaku (as in he held the hand seals whilst being in the shield, which shouldn't be the case if he were to use them for the technique...)--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 13:09, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Gaara doesn't need a handseal to transform and it would make 0 sense to start transforming before being fully protected, not to mention TB transformation isn't a technique and that hand seals can be used throughout using techniques.


 * This technique is superior because it resisted Sasuke's strong fist, while Shield of Sand was punched through by Lee's strong fist. While it's true that some techniques can use hand seals, derived jutsu are also stronger than parent techniques which as pointed out, is stronger. The basis of this article is that it presented itself as a unnamed technique in the manga, not that it was named in the TCG.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:47, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then why would Kankuro say "Oh no, he's using [THAT technique] >.>"? (Imo, it's Feigning Sleep Technique, doesn't it have the exact same seal?) This "technique" debuted against Sasuke, as you've added yourself (ep.66, chapter 112), so... CONTRADICTION GALORE, and even if it did debut against Lee, Eight Gates do make a difference in strength...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 13:50, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably because they expected him to be using the Feigning Sleep Technique.
 * I think your confused. I never said it was used against Lee, i said it's parent technique Shield of Sand was used against Lee. Also Lee hadn't open any gates when he could punch through the sand (ch82, pg 17) So again, Sand Cocoon is stronger than Shield Of Sand which is a quality of a derived jutsu --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:10, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Speculation Your favourite word ;)
 * you're. Im'ma use your own "sources" against you: A "source" said that they're one and the same. Deal with it.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 14:31, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't know what technique Kankuro was talking about so it's irrelevant and a source incorrectly labelling a technique a wrong name doesn't deny the articles existence, or should i slap on a redirect on Vanishing Rasengan since it was called Rasengan? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:51, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Given his facial expression and the fact that Temari mentioned about their plans being in jeopardy because Gaara is using "THAT" technique, it's pretty obvious that your so called "Sand Cocoon" is not what they were talking about at all... And about Vanishing Rasengan: Honestly... Why not? It was called "Rasengan" in both anime, manga and video game. I'm not that brave, since there's an entirely different nature involved (which the regular Rasengan doesn't have), but if you feel like you're up for a challenge - go for it (and anyways, it's not the place for us to have a convo. about that.)--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 14:56, May 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Speculation My favourite word ;) --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:59, May 7, 2016 (UTC)