Talk:Tobirama Senju

Background cleanup
Second Hokage contains content that has nothing to do with the Second Hokage but has to do only with either Hashirama or Madara. --Kakashi Namikaze Talk, Contribs 20:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Third databook
I was able to find a scan of the Second Hokage's article in the third databook (thanks to whoever uploaded it). If you want to see it, go here. I'll add some of the details. --ShounenSuki 19:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Are you going to add the details, that are written on this article, to his page? I'm hoping this article has some more info on him that we don't know. So little seems to be known about this hokage, and he has seen a small fraction of the attention of the first throughout the series.--SkyFlicker (talk) 03:18, October 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * So I guess the latest anime got it wrong on 'the hokage succession' and on the 'timeline of the great wars'? Because that two part jiraiya story basically showed that the first hokage was alive and gave the title to his brother, and they were both alive and then the second gave the title to sarutobi?  I like this latest info you added tho shounensuki, shows that the second had a much greater role than previously thought. thanks.--SkyFlicker (talk) 22:59, October 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. The Second Hokage deserved some more attention.
 * Oh, and yes, the anime got things wrong. Again. --ShounenSuki (talk 23:47, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * So I guess that was all there was to the article? Nothing more about his combat abilities or such?--SkyFlicker (talk) 23:58, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

Mokuton?
I was just wondering, if Tobirama is of the Senju clan, can't he use mokuton techniques? I know that we have not seen him use any but he does use water, (which counts as half of the mokuton combination) and isn't it a kekkei genkai, meaning that it is passed down from generation to generation?

Just a thought... Shikamaru1994 23:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Shikamaru1994


 * Mokuton is said to be unique to the First Hokage. Only those with the (almost) exact same genetic make-up as him can use Mokuton.
 * It's called a Kekkei genkai because it's a genetic trait that allows one to fuse two elements into a new one (something that is considered a Kekkei genkai). However, it was simply never passed don to his descendants and is usually treated like a unique technique (which is why it was called a Hiden Jutsu in the second databook). --ShounenSuki 00:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Water Dragon Jutsu
When did he use this? did he only use it in the manga? cuz i know he didnt use it in the anime, so im not sure? --AMTNinja 08:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * He uses it in the manga in chapter 120. --ShounenSuki 14:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Did he really only use one seal for this jutsu (ignoring anime) or was only one seal shown? 71.207.177.20 (talk) 07:18, December 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Only one is shown. In the manga, the only jutsu that he uses that others find impressive is Water Release: Water Encampment Wall. ~SnapperTo 20:09, December 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Then why does the entry say, "could even perform the most complex of water-style jutsu with only one hand seal," and is cited with a manga page? Dragonus Nesha (talk) 03:52, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Water Release
This statement bothers me.

"However, it has been speculated that he was just gathering the water vapor in the air to fuel his all powerful jutsus. It must be noted that even if this was the case the sheer quantity of water needed would necessitate gathering moisture from a very large area. Such a feat would be just as impressive as creating water from nothing."

First of all, do we really need to put speculation in the article? If there is no support for it in canon why does it matter? Secondly, how is gathering water vapor from a large area "just as impressive" as violating the law of conservation of mass? --Pocky4Cthulhu (talk) 16:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, changed sentence to "being able to make use of powerful Water jutsu in areas where there were no bodies of water." No place for speculation. Besides there's yet another possibility. Kishimoto could have just decided to violate physics like he does all the time, have him gather water vapor, or heck he could be summoning water from a big lake. All we know is we don't know a thing. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 18, 2009 @ 20:40 (UTC)


 * Hey umm i just went over the battle of the Hokages in the manga and noticed that when Sarutobi uses Fire Style: Dragon Flame Bombs and Tobirama counters it with his water wall he's spitting out the water ,unlike in the anime where he simply formed a Water Wall.Should we add that to the page.The link is right here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/03/

Deathreaper 23:55, 5 October 2009 hate to post something late but it does show him spitting the water out of his mouth. dradoow

most likely he release chakra around him and convert the chakra in to water.Linkdarkside (talk) 18:43, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Well if you watch clearly you can see that he spits out a water stream in the Anime too, so his secret behind the use of extreme high techniques without existing water sources seems to be creating water from his own chakrra like Kisame, and then use it for suiton jutsus, that should be added, btw under appearance someone should add that he has his holster on his upper arms!!! --Grave Blashyrkh (talk) 17:28, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Water + Sword
I can imagine how good of a fighter he would be, if he could use water dragon bullet anywheres with one hand seal, and shove his sword into the stream. that would be one huge and fast water/lightning combo--SkyFlicker (talk) 21:59, October 6, 2009 (UTC) 1. that sword isn't real 2. relevance? 3. --Cerez365 (talk) 18:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Affinity
I know its kinda dumb to ask this but when did it say his affinity is Water exactly. Even if he's good at Water Ninjutsu that doesn't mean that his affinity is water

He's the greatest water manipulator to ever live. That's all the information that is necessary.

Sword of the Thunder God
Should we not add (Anime only) next to it? Jules R. J. Blake (talk) 01:32, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * after Template:Infobox/Tools is up. Simant (talk) 01:34, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Uchiha Kagami
Since he was on the same team (and was the presiding leader) with an Uchiha, can it not be inferred that he did at least have some trust in the Uchiha clan? Like, can we make a note of that?

We was not on the same team. His team and another team had a joint mission. You also don't need to trust your partners in your team. As such whether he holds even an ounce of trust for the Uchiha has never been proven so the answer is no.--74.233.173.126 (talk) 07:34, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a matter that he didn't outright trust the Uchiha in the way you're making it out to be. There was still some uneasiness amongst the clans, but they weren't castrated from the village the way you're interpreting it. Hence he probably did trust Kagami and the other Uchihas as a fellow shinobi and villager, just with trepidation --Cerez365 (talk) 14:31, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities
It's been troubling me for a while but there when Tobirama has his fingers on the ground and then he notifies his team that they're being tracked by those guys from kumo... should we take into consideration the fact that this might be a sensory ability of some sort O.o Cerez365 (talk) 21:12, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting... see if you can word that to remove speculation. - S im A nt 21:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * "After briefly running his fingers on the ground, Tobirama was quickly able to discern that his unit was being tracked by Kumogakure's Kinkaku Force." How does that sound? We can still add something saying we don't know what is, like "Whether he was a sensor or an accomplished tracker himself is unknown." Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:45, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Kakashi did the same when he was young. It seems more like being able to tell who is coming via the vibrations they make. As for identifying them, I would guess he did it by their number (20), and the fact that they were near Kumo and that only this team might have the courage to go after him. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:25, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Minato was the one who did it, Kakashi would've probably used smell to identify them. This probably just confirms it then O.o? Cerez365 (talk) 20:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like one finger when minato does it though. - S im A nt 21:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Cerez365: thanks for pointing out my error. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Simant: that may simply be a reflection of skill or accuracy in measuring how many there are. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * If more than one person does this, should we add it to the Sensor section? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are probably dozens of ways shinobi can gather information about their enemies . Sensor type ninja, however, seem to have the unique ability to actually sense chakra with a great degree of accuracy. --ShounenSuki (talk 07:22, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to change the words, "sense" gives the idea they're both sensors. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:58, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * The ability probably has something to do with the fact that they're both jikukan ninjutsu users --Cerez365 (talk) 00:06, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities: Impure Ressurection
Since he was presummably the first to create this, should we not make a comment on the skills necessary? Plus, as I understand it, it is basically a super-high-level summoning jutsu, should that not be mentionned for his abilities? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:38, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned in his ability section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:17, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * That does not say that he created it, or the skills he would have had to master to actually use it. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:05, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't know if he created, that's a very relevant "presumably". The only thing we know for certain is that he could use it, and that is already covered. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:27, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it not said that only he, Oro, and Kabuto can/could use it? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily relevant to mention who else can use the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:10, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

My point being that he is was the first of the only known users. Plus, the fact that he would have needed key skills to use this jutsu. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 16:11, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough he has a point. I think it'd be safe to assume he created the kinjutsu since Madara said they were the only ones who could use it --Cerez365 (talk) 13:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Games
Shouldn't the games he appears in be in an "Other Media" section rather than the "Trivia" section like with the other characters? KonohaSunaKiriKumoIwa (talk) 22:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Kushina Uzumaki
Is there a reason that Kushina Uzumaki is listed as his Sister- In- Law? It should be Mito Uzumaki.98.22.73.195 (talk) 06:24, July 9, 2010 (UTC)Ryne

Space Time Jutsu
In Chapter 502 the Minato said that he could use space time ninjutsu. http://mangastream.info/manga/Naruto/Naruto_502/11
 * Additions were already made to his article--Cerez365 (talk) 19:21, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Family
Shouldn't Mito Uzumaki be listed the family section of Tobirama's infobox?

In-laws aren't listed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:59, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that I really care either way, but why aren't they? —ShounenSuki (talk 18:18, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it started with something you said actually, something about listing relationships that were important. It went down as listing blood relatives with known kinship, spouses, godparents/children and significant others, though that case was more because of Asuma and Kurenai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I remember that... The Asuma–Kurenai matter was rather annoying... —ShounenSuki (talk 18:29, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

ANBU
Where do you get from that Tobirama has organiced the ANBU?--77.5.39.143 (talk) 17:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * From the databooks --Cerez365 (talk) 17:28, February 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * From what Databook exactly? Hyo?--77.5.39.143 (talk) 17:37, February 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hyo is a fanbook. This is from Sha (third databook). ~SnapperTo 17:45, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Did you even read the dang article? It is also confirmed in the anime and manga that he founded it

Sensor?
Reading the section on his ability to sense nearby ninja by touching the ground with his index finger, doesn't also make him a sensor to a degree?Umishiru (talk) 02:08, February 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * He didn't simply sense others, it's like he felt vibrations on the ground or something. He didn't sense the way other sensors do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:10, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure, essentially it is a "sensory" ability, after all there are other means of sensing but then again it might just be a general skill or an ability that space-time technique users can perform after all Minato did it as well. --Cerez (talk) 03:06, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Background stuff
For some reason I'm not too clear here but are we to assume that the incident that occured when Tobirama was with his team and Team Danzō the same incident as the one the Raikage recalled in chapter 527? --Cerez (talk) 01:12, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that's right, so yes.-- Ninja Sheik  01:14, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought the Raikage said that Tobirama was left on the verge of death at the coup d'etat attempt, and he actually died at the incident with Team Danzō. Or am I also confused? ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 01:19, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should treat them as separate events until we have a definitive link between the two (either courtesy of a better translation of 527 or a future chapter). ~SnapperTo 01:43, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

missile of water
In episode 71 of naruto classic tobirama spear missile of water in hizuren, no should we put one page for that jutsu, equal the article -Lava Release: Lava Geyser- that was named without no certainty of name of article then i think that we could make a article with the name -Water Release: Water Missile- please me respond.
 * From your description, it's probably Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:13, September 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I always thought that was the anime's representation of it. Though it does look more like missiles and sorta like the water version of Fukasaku's Fighting Tongue Slash.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:37, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Banned edo tensei
Edo tensei? How do we know he banned it?
 * That'd probably be from that databooks. It's categorised as a kinjutsu, hence it's "banned"--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:00, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aside from it being listed as a kinjutsu, didn't Kabuto mention that Tobirama banned it? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:35, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Add to trivia?
On this page here his right eye goes normal when the Third is sealing him. I haven't noticed it on any other chapters before. Worth a mention? It's not a scanning mistake either, it's pretty clear to see the difference. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 04:11, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't something similar to that happen to everyone before Edo Tensei wears off an their soul departs? Skitts (talk) 04:21, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * It does, it's when the summoner loses control of the edo tensei. The same thing happened to Nagato when he was being sealed, it's just that the Second's eye colour that makes it more apparent.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:02, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Irony galore. He is the 2nd Hokage (Fire Shadow) and he uses water jutsu

By your logic Minato nor Tsuande fit whether. A kage title does not dictate what jutsu a ninja should use.Umishiru (talk) 16:16, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Best water style user
Why does it say in his abilities section that he's revered as the best water user in the entire series, when the reference used for that remark states no such thing? Yes, "creating water where there is no water" seems impressive on the surface, but he was merely transforming his chakra into water; a concept that wasn't full fleshed-out until the second part of the series, so what he did back then is practically commonplace. In the times he used water jutsu, the first jutsu he used created water from his mouth [As with most water jutsu], while the second manipulates the water he just created. He never at any point actually literally creates water out of thin air like that portion of the article mentioned. Was he mentioned to create water out of thin air, and be the greatest water user in a databook or something?

Wreiad (talk) 01:41, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I too would like to know where this is stated. Kisame's Suiton ninjutsu were quite impressive in my opinion. Kaitan (talk) 06:11, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a year old discussion, so i probably should have blanked your comment, but it's a legitamite question. I don't think that it was ever said in the actual Manga, i'm not sure about Anime, but i'm pretty sure it was stated in a databook. I'll look it up and give you the entry for you and anyone else who askes this question on here can know once and for all.71.71.58.231 (talk) 06:32, February 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Now, i wasn't able to find anything in the databooks about being the "best" Water Release user, the first databook said "He was a superior ninjutsu user, being able to use Water Release without being near the waterside, among many other feats.". And in the second databook it said "He is prideful of his superior combat ability, and with the Suiton jutsu which he was especially skilful at.". Here are the links to the site that i got the databook translations from-

Databook 2- http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=22953750&postcount=111.

Databook 1- http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=22952054&postcount=11.

I think that the "best" title may have came from the Anime.71.71.58.231 (talk) 06:57, February 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Birthdate/Zodiac sign
I read that Tobirama is born on February 19, so shouldn't he be a Pisces instead of an Aquarius?

Dreamkiller0826 (talk) 16:23, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

I recall reading a discussion about this somewhere in the wiki. Don't quote me on this, but this might have to do with some peculiarity of the Japanese. This topic has appeared in someone else's talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:57, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Appearances?
Does anyone know what episode the main picture in this article of him is from? I've been searching but I can't find it.

108.20.53.29 (talk) 05:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)TobiramaFan


 * As it says here, Episode#140~ Ultimate  Supreme  05:23, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Shrine
Where it says it almost destroyed the Naka Shrine, weren't they still in the Uzumaki Clan's Mask Storage Temple? Kaitan (talk) 03:29, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * They were in the Naka Shrine.~ Ultimate  Supreme  06:08, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Armour
Tobirama's is quoted as saying, "Beneath his shoulder armour he wore two bands on each arm. Though the purpose of these are not known, merely touching one of them was enough for his brother to forcefully tell him to lower his hand." I disagree with this, his pics clearly show the bands to be silver armour worn on his upper arm. I believe it's a bit speculative to assume they serve another purpose without any evidence. IMO Hashirama was reacting to the raised finger only. ref. Chapter 620 page 3-5 Arrancar79 (talk) 23:11, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Looking at chapter 620 again pgs 3-5, I'm even more convinced that Hashirama was only reacting to Tobirama moving his finger. The bands around his arm IMO are just armour till there's more evidence they have another function other than protection. In western armour those pieces would be referred to as Rerebraces under his Sode. Anyone have thoughts on this? Arrancar79 (talk) 05:06, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, he was just releasing his chakra, nothing to do with those bands--Elveonora (talk) 14:37, March 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed, I'm removing that now. Arrancar79 (talk) 21:56, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Folding arms
I don't really see it relevant as too him folding folding his arms it doesn't really need to be on the page and (I know it's not a forum) but where did we get that info from that tends to fold his arms ?--Jmootam1999 (talk) 22:01, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

he is shown folding his arms in almost all of his appearances in which he is passive.--J spencer93 (talk) 09:33, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Kunai
When is usual Raijin Blade isn't present in the manga/anime/or videogame, he uses a kunai instead. Anyway to add this to his weaponlist? --Aeris97 (talk) 20:29, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

For the same reasons that we don't list general skills (such as Kawarami no Jutsu, or Shunshin no Jutsu) in the characters' infobox, we do not add standard Ninja Tools to their infobox either. Unless His fighting style revolves around it, or He is known for His skill with them, then it shall not be put in His infobox.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 20:51, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

The academy
i don't think tobirama founded the academy because how he found it but you can clearly see in manga while hashirama telling sasuke his way what is a village and shinobi somewhere after madara death you can see the academy was found while hashirama was alive. also he told madara his dreams about that children is given mission to match and to grow their skills. I will say tobirama created the police. he also didn't found konoha it was hashirama with madara told that you can see everything it was madara name it. Tobirama also created the chunin exams. please help me to understand all details.

Next time please create a heading so I won't have to do it for you, and also sign your post please, Tobirama did create the academy, this could of been done when he was not Hokage It doesn't have to be when he was Hokage (but that has created confusion with the latest chapter but i won't to into that) and yes he did create the police force and he did not found Konohagakure as that was his brother Hashirama and madara and yes he created the chunin exams most of what you said Is included in the article I'll ask other members of the wiki about my point which is in brackets as I'm also not sure -- Jmootam 1999 16:43, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * It was never said he created it when he was Hokage, he was simply credited with creating it. When was never stated.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:35, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not true, it was about 43 years before QB attack, thus circa 60 years prior to current events. Thus even if he wasn't Hokage when he did, it was 5 years after the village's founding which means Hashi lived to see it. Possibly Hashi passed on the hat to Tobirama long before his death, but that contradicts timeline thus let's settle on that Tobirama founded the training facility without a hat (for now)--Elveonora (talk) 18:58, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Flying Thunder God
When did the chapter actually say that Tobirama knew Hiraishin and that he wasn't bound by the same limitation as Minato? I didn't catch it. admittedly, Tobirama mentioned that "we" couldn't use it while they were bound (since Orichimaru wouldn't allow it, I presume), but it doesn't actually say he could use it. Skitts (talk) 22:46, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mangastream scanlation is clearer. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:59, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, time to add Flying Thunder God Technique to the jutsu section of the infobox, right? General Awesomo 00:09, April 11, 2013 (UTC)