Narutopedia talk:Bureaucrat

Merge
Would anyone mind if I merge this page into Administrators and expand a little?—
 * Probably not such a good idea. That bit on Bureaucrats having sysop permissions was false. Bureaucrat only has block, some rate limit and configuration stuff, and the permission to manage rights. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 20:45, October 31, 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't really talking about merging them. Just converting them into a single article with each retaining their contents and expanding the content with little more information.—

Ad Hoc Bureaucrat Nomination: Ventillate -
This feels a bit awkward, but this wiki could use an active bureaucrat to help run things smoothly from an administrative standpoint as well as working with FANDOM to discuss and implement changes (whether technical or non-technical) as necessary. In the past there have been discussions regarding a new bureaucrat due to the lack of an active one, but often have been rejected or kept frozen due to either a lack of interest from the nominee(s) or for other reasons.

I'd like to nominate myself as bureaucrat. Per my previous nomination to administrator, I believe I can fulfill the bureaucrat role with my experience. I believe that this will be essential to help keep the wiki running smoothly from an administrative standpoint, and if no one else is interested in the role, I am willing to serve as one.

Users please indicate on whether you support or oppose this nomination with supporting rationale. All perspectives and questions/concerns are more than welcome. -Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work } 17:58, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I think Ventillate is a great candidate to be a bureaucrat and is very active on the wiki, and is also highly familiar with Fandom stuff. For that reason, they should be made a bureaucrat as they already have active communications with the Wiki Manager. --Sajuuk 18:16, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * As in the previous Sysop nomination, I believe Ventillate is a fantastic choice for a bureaucrat. It may be a bit soon after becoming a Sysop, but he has already made a lot of needed changes to the wiki. Ninja Of War (talk) 19:58, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm curious what administrative tasks Ventillate is expected to be doing. The only thing a bureaucrat does is adding/removing sysop flags. There are no special flags needed to talk with FANDOM staff about making changes. Also, do please notify the other sysops of this nomination. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 20:54, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Though in terms of the raw rights that Bureaucrats get, you're correct. I do understand what you mean, but I do have a few extra things I'd like to add on. For one, an active bureaucrat looks well on the community whether they're engaging on articles or discussions (either or is fine). In terms of "administrative" changes, it's more directed to the changes we see on main fandom (technical or non-technical) and whether we decide to implement that or not. I have had the pleasure of working with Wiki Managers to update the Naruto fandom both technical and non-technical in order to conform to modern day website or policy updates. Another part is that Fandom has mentioned that it's better to have have too many people in additional roles than having too few. I realized that you may have encountered some technical issues where you did not always receive notifications, and therefore it may seem that you are unreachable. Having another bureaucrat to discuss similar material with could prove useful when intervention or discussion is needed (especially when it is critical). I will contact the other sysops later on to see if they can contribute to this as well. -Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work } 22:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A bureaucrat flag should not be a requirement to make any technical or non-technical change. Nor to make decisions on whether we implement changes to the wiki. Decisions on implementing changes to the wiki should come from community consensus, not the desires of a single user. If as a sysop Fandom has given you any trouble getting things fixed because you're not a bureaucrat, or ignored the community's consensus because it wasn't a decision made by a bureaucrat, then that is a deeper problem needing a separate discussion that we need to fix properly, for everyone; not bandaid over.
 * The admins and editors are the active face of a wiki and what looks well on the community. A bureaucrat is just there to rubber stamp requests made by the community. I don't see how the editing or forum activity of a user with one of the most universally mocked titles makes a wiki look good.
 * Bureaucrat is not one of those cases where "more is better". This may be the case for sysops/administrators, moderators, and especially rollback users. However the bureaucrat role is a very different type of role to give someone the permissions for. It is a high risk low reward role while sysop is a lower risk higher reward role. A sysop can do many things to help the wiki, while the damage a rogue or hacked sysop can do is limited to what they can do with their own account. They cannot propagate that to another account. Either a bureaucrat or staff member can easily remove the user's rights in one action. And the mess left behind is easily found in one user's log and of a level any of the wiki's sysops can easily help cleanup. So having many sysops helps deal with the wiki's administration and the risk to the wiki should any of them turn out to have been a bad pick is minimal. Bureaucrat however is another story entirely. A bureaucrat's only benefit to the wiki is having someone to give sysop rights. A bureaucrat has the rights needed to revoke sysop flags from all administrators, give bureaucrat and administrator rights to any number of sockpuppet users or other malicious users. The only people who can remove the bureaucrat flag are staff members. And because the bureaucrat can create infinite bureaucrats this is a level of cleanup where only staff can clean it up, they cannot do it in a single action, and the wiki's admins are also unable to slow down the attack while waiting for staff. To use an analogy, many sysops is equivalent to many armed soldiers surrounded by peers and officers to keep them in check; many bureaucrats is equivalent to many people with nukes, where any one of them can on their own blow everything up.
 * Yes, I do have some technical issues with notifications. I'll make a support ticket for it, but it's anyone's guess whether Fandom will ever fix it, it's been affecting my notifications for years. And I do tend to skip replying to messages I don't have a response for, as I have difficulty writing and making replies to stuff like this literally takes hours of time out of me, a resource in scarce supply, sorry about that. But I am available to handle nominations, if someone other than Fandom's broken notifications lets me know one is in process. Do make use of the nominations process to discuss nominations for more admins and moderators (though we may need a different location where notifications are separate from protection/block requests). Do discuss whether Fandom's changes should be implemented on the wiki with other admins and the rest of the community. And do let me know if Fandom gives you trouble changing something just because I haven't rubber stamped it, especially stuff decided by community consensus.
 * ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 09:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Same reasons given in the sysop Ad Hoc. And Dan, it's not about any extra tools you can click on, it's more than that. I'd ask what exactly it is you've done here in the last several years, but alas. Munchvtec (talk) 22:14, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm also unclear what the advantages here are. Fandom staff have generally been very reactive to sysop requests and the only time I've seen them express a preference for bureaucrat input is with regards to user rights. What "technical and non-technical" changes has Ventillate liaised with Fandom about on the wiki's behalf? ~SnapperTo 05:28, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A few things actually. Outside of FANDOM help, I revitalized the icons and integrated them into templates in order for the wiki to transition from a skeuomorphic UI to a flat UI based on modern web design standards. Back when Ursuul was our Wiki Manager, I worked with him in finding templates and elements on the wiki to adhere to FANDOM's new mainstream dark mode UI. I wasn't able to access the CSS page at that time and Ursuul was rather skilled in the scripting language where I was more beginner-intermediate, so that helped. The other one (which I noticed and wanted to implement personally) was the DiscussionsRC API that would update our community portal in order to show the latest activity with our forums. This needed to be done as the remnants of what was there was broken and ineffective. After adding in the code to the page, Lder was able to add in the API to our ImportJS module, which now is properly working and updating the page with forum posts/activity as usual. Sorry for all the tech jargon, but I figured I'd be specific in order to give a glimpse of what's changed so far. -Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work } 03:34, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * No, that's much more informative, and would be strong reason to make you a sysop if you weren't already. But the fact that you did all of that when you were just a regular user supports my belief that Staff doesn't care who they're in contact with; they'll talk to a bureaucrat just as readily as they'll talk to a sysop just as readily as they'll talk to a Discussions moderator just as readily as they'll talk to a vanilla editor. And if they'll talk to anyone, then this particular of your skillsets - useful though it is - is irrelevant to the question of whether you should be a bureaucrat.
 * The only real qualification that seems to matter for bureaucrats is, which I guess you have? ~SnapperTo 03:26, 14 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I am favour of that which shall continue to revitalize the wiki, and from what I have seen, Ventillate appears worthy of the position. Arcadia warlic (talk) 10:41, 8 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Snapper, what exactly is the instance of FANDOM asking about bureaucrat input about user rights? As far as I know, whenever FANDOM has reached out to the wiki, it's usually the most recently active sysop. And about notification issues, while not widespread, I do have anecdotal experience of another user complaining about them, though I believe in their case it was about being unable to unwatch/unfollow either message wall threads or topics in discussions. the nomination, if only because there'll be someone else to handle whatever that's not me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:52, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you clarify what you mean by "there'll be someone else to handle whatever that's not me"? Are you referring to Ventillate? They are already an admin able to do so. Or are you just referring to getting new admins in general? ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 04:20, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * When Discussions was first implemented, there was a lack of sysops (as in, none) who were interested in moderating the forums. This predictably created an issue of porn and other spam flooding Discussions. I don't want to track down whatever messaging there was, but you can see User:Ursuul referencing a lack of bureaucrat responsiveness in the user rights log of User:Squinty97: "Approved by TheUltimate3 & given go-ahead by Pikushi in the absence of Bureaucrat response." I don't think Staff is fussy about who they're in contact with, but I think they prefer to avoid being the ones to grant user rights. ~SnapperTo 04:56, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dantman Referring to Ventillate as bureaucrat, since I have no interesting in being responsible for managing user rights on top everything else I already do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Same reasons for when he was nominated to be a sysops. OmegaRasengan (talk) 07:46, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Kunoichi101 (talk) 11:04, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Going to go ahead and close the nomination discussion period for this. Thank you all who have shared your thoughts and feelings on it, I strongly appreciate it. Going forward, any potential nominations from moderator and up will be done via the new nominations page. If necessary, this page will still allow talks for anything other than the actual nomination regarding bureaucrats. -Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work } 23:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)