Talk:Jinchūriki Forms

Gallery
Glad to see that this page was created. Is the plan to add a gallery for the different users? At the very least, there should probably be pictures for the various aspects of the forms (a close-up of Version 2, the miniature tailed beast skeletons, different uses of partial transformation, Naruto's eight-tailed form, etc.).--BeyondRed (talk) 20:43, June 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sora
When did Sora do partial Transformation? KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Koto, Sora didn't. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:08, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

... Dan, I think the fact that someone is asking is indicative of him being listed. So if he didn't use it, why is he listed? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 16:15, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * He did, his arm partially transforms sometimes.. — S im A nt 16:15, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, his arm was always like that until the chakra was removed. It was mutation of sorts. I don't think that counts as a partial transformation, ya know?. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:20, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * His arm isn't a bijū arm or is it? Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:21, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 16:23, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * That is what first thought, that arm isn't from the bijū, being only a mutation, review the episode @Simant. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:30, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

His arm wasn't always like that. It was wrapped in bandages, and whenever he tapped on Kurama's chakra, the arm would change into that mutated Nine-Tails arm. Don't know if that counts as a partial transformation, but it seems not too many people actually remember what happened in that arc, so I thought I should bring it up. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:32, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely partial transformation, I brought this up myself long ago and some opposed it. Someone can't "mutate" from chakra, mutations are genetic. It was a result of Kurama's chakra thus partial transformation--Elveonora (talk) 20:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Definitely a mutation and not partial transformation, that has nothing to do with parcial transformation, just look at Sora's hand, looks like a crab's shell or something. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 22:52, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its not a mutation. Mutations are done at the cellular level, and are not caused by energy. It is a direct result of Sora's Nine-Tails chakra, and his arm only transforms when he's agitated/using Kurama's chakra. Therefore, it is a transformation. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 23:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Foxie is correct this time. The only way for Sora to could have mutated is if he had Kurama's cells/DNA or shit and it would have stayed once the chakra was gone. In fact it looks like a mix between Kurama's arm and his human arm, no crab shell lol.--Elveonora (talk) 12:21, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

(Restarting indents) Anymore opinions on this? I'm watching the Twelve Ninja Guardians Arc on Crunchyroll to get us some more images as well as to update the neglected filler characters everyone seems to pass over and ignore. It seems the consensus is that it is in fact a partial transformation, but, just for a fact check, I've confirmed a few things by re-watching these episodes; Based on this observation alone, I guarantee you, it is a partial transformation, but continuing on; Therefore, based on this evidence, I think it is safe to list Sora as an anime-only user of a, albeit unwillingly, partial transformation (which is no big feat, because Naruto has done it too). ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sora's arm is caused by his possession of the Nine-Tails Chakra.
 * By that very definition, it is not a mutation. Any one who has studied anatomy, biology, etc. (and being a med student, I've studied this extensively), knows that mutations are caused by a change in the nucleotide sequence within someone's DNA. In other words, you're born with mutations. You don't gain mutations suddenly.
 * The arm is actually a normal human arm except when he's angry and using Kurama's chakra. So, yet again, like most jinchūriki, it is sparked by his usage of Kurama's chakra. Not by a mutation in his genes.
 * Did he? i don't remember Naruto doing it--Elveonora (talk) 22:46, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naruto's partial transformation was far more extreme (eight-tailed form), but it proved that partial transformations can happen unwillingly. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:48, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know Naruto was unconscious back there? It was a forced transformation, nothing he did himself. But oh well, that's not very relevant anyway.--Elveonora (talk) 22:51, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

This is crazy
This generalised page is okay, but why on earth did you guys remove the individual pages? It completely removes the in individuality of the transformations.209.73.151.10 (talk) 17:00, June 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe because with the generalised article all the individual information is there too, and theres no need to be all those individual articles. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:03, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

Menma's Tailed Beast Mode
Since Menma is Kurama's jinchūriki in the Genjutsu World, and he could fully manifest the Nine-Tails (albeit like a summon), shouldn't we put him in the Tailed Beast Mode paragraph?--JOA20 (talk) 21:43, July 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * No. He summoned Kurama. He did not transform into him. There is a huge difference. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 23:26, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Back on the note of Menma, he did, however, use the initial Jinchūriki mode (during his fight with Naruto, when the Nine Masked Beasts returned to him, watch his eyes, you'll see the red iris with slit pupils). Should he not be listed as a user of the Initial Form at least?--The Eleventh Doctor (Trust me. I'm the Doctor.) 19:54, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Mode
We should specify HOW each Jinchuriki who has it reaches it, and whether they have full control or not. It'll make the topic far more accurate and clear up things, since its wrong to assume that Han, Roshi, Utakata, and Fu can assume the full Beast Mode form without outside help since their control is unknown.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:39, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that this distinction should be made, since this is the rationale we used for adding or keeping people as users of Tailed Beast Ball. However, I'm not sure that making that in the list of users is the best approach to do it. Mentions during the text should suffice. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:05, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are taking the term "known users" just means persons who have turned into their beasts. There are more details present in each persons respective article to identify under what conditions the mode was used. And as Omni said, more details can be added to the sections as well.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:45, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Obito Uchiha
How would we go about adding Obito's new form to this page? Doesn't seem to fit the bill of any of the others. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 06:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Under a separate heading I'd say: main heading "other forms" or "miscellaneous" and then sub-heading "Obito's form" or something like that. Possibly they'll tell us what it is, but for now it doesn't conform to any known forms.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:49, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * We should wait for next chapter until we add something about Obito's jinchūriki form. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:06, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't have to wait. This is a Jinchūriki form. I'm of the same mind of Cerez. An "Other Forms" heading, with a sub-heading for Obito should work for now. Its clearly different from anything we've seen before. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:48, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is... since we'll see a lot more of this form in the comming chapters, it's more than likely to have a big growth...maybe making a separate article aswell to add the several details...given how it's more similar to Naruto's NTCM, maybe even give an un-official name similar to it...that is when we have too much details and if no official name is given. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:27, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * And this latest chapter is just showing me right...Obito's section in his articla for this is geting massive...maybe a new article showing this mode with a un-official name until a official one is given could help. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:56, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Until something is named, I am very much against this. It is clearly different from any type of jinchūriki transformation we've ever seen, and I think creating new articles left and right, just because his form is different is a bad way to handle it. Also, there is no magic limit on how big a section should be. It will be as big as it needs to be. Right now, the best course of action is to just leave it how it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:03, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Colored Pics?
Why do we have colored pics under Obito's Jinchūriki Form? I don't remember him being colored in any chapters (that I've seen) and I thought we didn't use fan-colored pictures. Joshbl56 02:26, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * They're not fan-colored. Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece had their last week's chapter re-released earlier today, but in full color.KazeKitsune (talk) 02:37, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

final form
According to Gyuki, the previous form of Obito's was next to the last, that means what we see now is the final transformation; ie. Rikudou Sennin's form.--Elveonora (talk) 11:07, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * The "perfect" final transformation won't be exist right now since Naruto and B have their bijū. There's a big difference between this form and Rikudō's. So still nothing confirmed here and also Kurama didn't say anything about this from even with a merely word.  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 11:22, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * He doesn't need the beasts themselves, only their chakra, he already has them all. Gyuki in fact said that the previous form was next to final, so this must be the final form--Elveonora (talk) 11:46, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * This from probably should be the final according to Gyūki's statement, but that doesn't mean that it's the same form that the Rikudō had when he was its jinchūriki (i.e. This form =/= Rikudō's form)  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 11:53, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Probably Obito's final form, not Jūbi's, i still don't believe that Jūbi could enter its final form without all Bijū's complete chakra, it doesn't make any sense, but kishimoto trolls what we know as sense, still, they said nothing about this form, we can't say that is the final form yet. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:33, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Had Sage not used it, Gyuki wouldn't have recognized it, logic.--Elveonora (talk) 22:45, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is the beast's final form but the form achieved by its actualised(?) host. The beast's final form was what the Sage confronted and sealed into himself which is what probably gave him that form we've seen post becoming the host.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:54, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I meant jinchuuriki form, not the beast's. Octopus guy must have seen it since he noted that Obito's previous one was "next to final" so this is Sage of Six Path's final jinchuuriki form.--Elveonora (talk) 22:58, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not seen, because Gyūki was part of Jūbi then, but know it because it was inside Jūbi once before. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 02:02, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion
Since Killer B talked about Tailed Beast Chakra Mode (尾獣チャクラモード, Bijū Chakura Mōdo) way before the term "Nine-Tails Chakra Mode" was used, I think B meant that all jinchūriki can use it. Let me explain. B talked about the full transformation in the Tailed Beast (what we know as Tailed Beast Mode) as the full manifestation of the Tailed Beast after the jinchūriki tapped into its chakra reserves, thus entering "Tailed Beast Chakra Mode". I think we should change the page in something like this:


 * Tailed Beast Chakra Mode
 * Initial jinchūriki form
 * Version 1
 * Version 2
 * Nine-Tails Chakra Mode
 * Tailed Beast Mode
 * Partial Transformation
 * Full Transformation
 * Other Transformations
 * Obito Uchiha's Jinchūriki Form

What do you think?--JOA20 (talk) 10:40, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Why not put "Nine-Tails Chakra Mode" in the Other Transformations? --Questionaredude (talk) 16:29, July 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because it's a form of Tailed Beast Chakra Mode, unique to Kurama's jinchūriki (Naruto and Minato especially), but still Tailed Beast Chakra Mode.--JOA20 (talk) 17:25, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * The article is supposed to be used fore generic purposes. Lumping in chakra modes with other modes that jinchūriki are able to enter shouldn't be done. That's why Obito has been thrown into "other transformations" and articles were made for the other ones.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:11, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Understood, I'm sorry for the trouble I caused.--JOA20 (talk) 02:21, July 31, 2013 (UTC)

Ten-Tail's Extra Abilities
Since pictures are up from the new chapter, I was wondering if it would now be okay to add in the extra abilities this chapter showed Obito having.

The first is the amazing healing. We see him healing on page 3 and he has shown to have fully healed by page 4 (small picture of him in the bottom left corner of the page) and further evidence can be found on page 9, where he is spinning around.

The second part I want to go over is what Naruto says on page 4. He mentions only feeling natural energy when using sage mode and that natural energy could only be stopped/damaged by itself.

Should we wait until the raws of this chapter come out before putting them into the article or do you think its safe to do so right now? Joshbl 56  00:23, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Bump Joshbl  56  09:11, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Obito healed super fast from Naruto's QB Rasengan before becoming a jinchuuriki. The natural energy part should already be there--Elveonora (talk) 12:15, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * I must be looking in the wrong spot but I'm not seeing anything about natural energy in his section. I'll add it as a trivia note and see if anyone removes it for now. Thanks for the reply Elveonora. Joshbl  56  20:32, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Partial transformation gallery
Should we add an image of Naruto's partial transformations after he gained Tailed Beast Mode?--JOA20 (talk) 10:39, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's the thing about his Tailed Beast Mode, which makes it iffy to me. When he's in Tailed Beast Mode he is technically fully utilizing the Nine-Tails' chakra, which means whenever he is not full on fox, he is technically in a partial transformation.
 * But that is me spit balling and I'm pretty sure the article itself does not reflect this observation.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:06, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, yeah, but by partial transformation we mean a manifestation of the tailed beast's body parts, otherwise we would've put Sora's right demonic hand as well. So I think we could put an image of Naruto manifesting Kurama's head or arm, to show the visual differences with the transformation against Pain. And Naruto cannot create a fully-powered Tailed Beast Ball without manifesting the full Kurama cloak, so there's a bit of difference between the enhanced Nine-Tails Chakra Mode and the full Tailed Beast Mode.--JOA20 (talk) 11:21, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * The thing is, I don't think those should be considered partial transformations. He isn't transforming into Kurama neither manifesting parts of its body, it's just a chakra cloak--Elveonora (talk) 21:53, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Really? Bee and Gyūki had no trouble stating that Naruto had finally managed to fully transform into Kurama despite the fact that it was not in the flesh, and it is called Tailed Beast Mode, which is the manifestation of a tailed beast without its jinchūriki's death.--JOA20 (talk) 22:05, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's already been noted that his Tailed Beast Mode is unique among the jinchuriki Elv. What I was saying (which again is not reflected in this article) was that on a very loose technical sense, he is always in a partial transformation once he dons the mantle in Tailed Beast Mode because that was pure Kurama chakra that he could then mold into arms, tails and head whenever he wanted.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:22, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * So you're saying that Naruto's partial transformations in Tailed Beast Mode are a form of Tailed Beast Chakra Arms? But Chakra Arms cannot create Tailed Beast Balls, so at least Kurama's head should be considered as a partial transformation, along with the chakra arms that have the same marks as Naruto's hands, since they would be Kurama's arms.--JOA20 (talk) 23:03, August 31, 2013 (UTC)

@JOA, really? Tailed Beast Rasengan part of a tailed beast's body isn't needed to create it. Naruto doesn't transform into Kurama one bit, that giant cloak fox isn't Kurama, but the cloak enlarged. It really is more like chakra arms--Elveonora (talk) 23:18, August 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, that's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that Kurama said Naruto had transformed into "his tailed beast", B and Gyūki said he'd be come Kurama, so on and so forth. Look, stop arguing against Kishimoto. Its been noted that Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode is unique among Jinchūriki, but it is the Nine-Tails he's becoming according to the Nine-Tails himself. So just leave it at that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 01:50, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * No one argues against its "uniqueness" and Kishimoto. The facts are tho that Naruto doesn't transform physically into Kurama neither the chakra cloak fox is Kurama. When Killer B is in Tailed Beast Mode, he and Gyuki are one and the same being. They both get hurt when attacked and bleed, going as far as Gyuki loosing teeth and horns. On top of that, both Killer B and Gyuki can speak through the transformed body in Tailed Beast Mode.

For Naruto, the chakra cloak fox lost its tails, Kurama didn't get hurt, neither Naruto got because it wasn't their body again. And I'm yet to see the chakra cloak fox open its mouth and speak. There's no transformation being done, they just merge their chakras and Naruto forms a giant fox body out of it. But the topic is about partial transformation... the same applies to it. Forming chakra head is no different than forming chakra arms and neither are actual parts of Kurama's body and Naruto's doesn't change and as such they do not classify as partial transformations in its literal definition not at least. In fact, we list Killer B Version 1 Lariat's "horns" as chakra arms and by that so should we the head.--Elveonora (talk) 11:48, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Another conversation I do not wish to engage in a lenghtly argument over. I will just say this: Tailed Beast Mode as we've been told is turning into the tailed beast within. Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode is stupid unique, but he is turning into Kurama regardless. The Nine-Tails speaking through it is irrelevant, hell the Eight-Tails only spoke on the outside once and ever time after that it has been speaking to B or the Nine-Tails through telepathy.
 * That being said, this entire discussion took a turn that will most likely not be used for any article anyway, especially this one was it was originally about the partial transformation gallery so I suggest we either drop this Tailed Beast Mode discussion or the entire one in general.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:31, September 1, 2013 (UTC)