Talk:Ice Release

Hyouton?
Can someone tell me if they actually said "Hyouton" in the movie? I just heard they said "Setton" or "Snow Release" apparently, which would make more sense with this having no similarities to the effects of the kekkei genkai and usaully controlling snow due to the surrounding in the movie's setting. I don't want to watch the movie....--GoDai (talk) 10:11, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * By the way, did Renga actually use Ice Release????
 * I would feel better if only "Haku" was under this page. Haku created ice mirrors that served as "portals" for his (apparently-)space-time jutsu, while Yuki-nin actually froze targets, and Renga created lenses by condensing moisture. I think we should create a separate page for the Yukigakure Hyouton.--GoDai (talk) 10:11, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * His technique used ice, so it is deemed Ice Release, I don't think another page would be required, the section on this one explains well enough the difference between the manga Ice Release and others. And Haku didn't use space-time ninjutsu with his mirrors, he just moved between them faster than the normal eye can see. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:57, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

So did they say "Hyouton" in the original movie? Where did this "Setton" stuff come from then? Is it just a fan-made word to describe the difference?--GoDai (talk) 19:42, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not 100% sure, but I think they did say Hyōton. I'd have to check the movie though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:16, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

If it isn't a space-time jutsu, how does he "jump into" a mirror and appear out of another one? Also, if the mirror he was in smashed, he could jump out of one of the fragments. What's the correct explanation? Optical illusion? --GoDai (talk) 07:14, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * He had high speed to move between mirrors, Sasuke was able to track Haku with the Sharigan when he jumped around. If you're talking about the mirror he made to go take Kakashi's Raikiki for Zabuza, I think that he just hid in the ice mirror and moved the ice mirror there, similar to the guy hidden in a puddle in the beginning of the series, also in the Land of Waves arc, and to Kakuzu's hidden in water technique in an anime only sequence. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:15, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Movie
Is it necessary to keep the movie-only Ice Release techniques, Ice Release involves changing your chakra to Ice release chakra by simultaneously using the nature transformations of wind and water, the "Ice Release" Nadare and his gang uses isn't even a hijiutsu , Kakashi could easily copy it with his sharingan. 119.154.20.238 (talk) 16:36, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

All moves regardless of what official medium they came from are recorded on the wiki regardless what others think. Also read previous conversations on the appropriate pages. The manipulate existing ice. And since it was a movie, it has no real bearing on the plot or on ice release at all anyway, if you watch naruto movies especially ship number 3 you see that the movie makers don't really care for consistency with the manga anyway which is fine since it doesn't harm the plot in anyway. Basically what you are saying was discussed long ago and has been already acted on.Umishiru (talk) 17:04, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Also the point of listing them here is so that people know what is the difference between the canon one and the movie and anime versions when they come o the page.Umishiru (talk) 17:07, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

By the way, we only have this problem because when this movie came out, it was never said that Ice Release was a kekkei genkai, and it was never said that it was made out of Water and Wind. It wasn't even mentioned that Haku used Ice Release at the time. The movie creators probably just made it up since at the time, we had only seen Fire Release, Earth Release, Water Release, Wind Release, and Wood Release, and they thought it woudl be cool to see some ice. The elements were only sorted out later in Part II when Kakashi taught Naruto about them, and that's the actual time when the problem showed up. --GoDai (talk) 19:53, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, at the time this film came out, we did already know that Haku used ice and that it was a kekkei genkai. In fact, Haku's ice was used to introduce the entire concept of kekkei genkai. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:28, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that what he meant is that when this movie came out, Ice Release, with that name, and being made up from two natures, those bits didn't exist. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:53, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, we knew that Haku's Ice Release was a Kekkai Genkai at the time because I remember Kakashi specifically stating that because of that he couldn't copy the techniques. The reason that they did that in the movie was because...they wanted to. Skitts (talk) 21:58, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, they started the films off well with a tradition of completely disregarding and screwing over canon. Reminds me a bit of the Dragon Ball Z films… —ShounenSuki (talk 00:04, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Haha yeah just to clear up the confusion, I meant that while we knew Haku used a ice-related kekkei genkai, he didn't say "Ice Release: Demonic Ice Crystal Mirrors" which meant we didn't know it was an advanced chakra nature at the time. This probably made the movie's non-kekkei genkai Ice Release seem to be a different thing from Haku's ability until Masashi Kishimoto revealed that Haku was using Hyouton too... with that nature itself being kekkei genkai. --GoDai (talk) 23:49, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, it really was just a stupid choice. Haku's ice might not have officially been named Hyōton until much later, but it certainly was called that since the moment it was introduced. When the first film was announced, everyone thought it was ridiculous to use non-kekkei genkai ice techniques on both English and Japanese fora. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:11, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh interesting. How did the fans know it was Hyōton? Did they make a logical guess? Or was it a fan name for it that eventually became official? Because these kinds of guesses are the exact same kind of guesses that gets us things like "OMG Shikotsumyaku and Kumonenkin are natures!" Was it mentioned to be Ice Release soon afterits introduction? --GoDai (talk) 01:20, December 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, it was something the fans made up, but that doesn't take away the point that anyone with even a remote interest in the series had already figured out that ice was a nature like fire and such. The introduction of Mokuton had only cemented this believe. It might not have been official, but to most fans it could just as well have been and even so, the film makers should have been more careful.
 * Using Hyōton in the film showed that the film makers where unoriginal, couldn't care less about the series or its continuity, had no interest in actually making the fans happy, and didn't even pay heed to the original author. The fact that they used guns and trains only made this worse. Even Kishimoto-sensei himself voiced his disappointment about this. I know several people, myself included, who never watched another Naruto film afterwards, simply because this one was the biggest disappointment until Dragonball Evolution came along. —ShounenSuki (talk 02:19, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have watched all the movies so far, and most of them are pretty bad. I found the sixth one to be passable, though compared to the others, it looks like a masterpiece. Maybe it's that I watched it while having low expectations. The seventh was an epic fail though, something that shouldn't be possible considering Minato was in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:37, December 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's rather pathetic that the second-most popular shōnen series of the past decade gets such terrible films… —ShounenSuki (talk 02:47, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

VIZ Translation
I think its better to call it Ice Style like every other Kekkei Genkai instead of calling it "Haku's Secret Arts of Water". Its as if the Ice Release applies only to Haku, which is not true.