Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-24886865-20171122234112/@comment-24886865-20171218093755

AsianReaper wrote: Nerosmoke wrote:

Kakashi has sensor and sealing ablitys? Kakashi did not fight him head on. instead using other means to take him out. the reasion Kakashi did not take him head on is just that. he could not do it. Zabuza was stronger then he was in hand to hand and was under the cover of the Mist.

Zabuza only lost from mind control. Kakashi was underpowered to beat him.

Omoi destorys a clone with a katana. and the thousands other times they pop in one hit. many of the clones in that fight go in one hit. I don't see how one clone that takes longer to pop then others is the durablity of all of the clones.

And if you think the Naruto clone beating the 3rd Raikage with help and information. then how about Kisame's 30% water clone taking on Might guy team solo and forcing him into the 6th gate after droping a lake onto him.

How is Might Dai weaker then his student. I need to see something that proves that to be the case as there is nothing anywhere that states that.

The 8th gate of Death or the red mist as Madera called it. is a state of great power. Madera did not say anything about the power being based on the user. You really have issues with actually reading the argument thoroughly, don't you.

Kakashi doesn't have sensor abilities, but he can sense enemies. In Kakashi he Gaiden he sensed an enemy like 100 meters away behind a tree, impressing Minato. Also, Zabuza in their second fight had weapons stained in Kakashi's blood. Kakashi has already demonstrated he can smell something like blood and use it for locating purposes. He did this in Kakashi Gaiden. Kakashi didn't fight Zabuza head on because there was no reason to. He had a whole army behind him. Of course he'd make a strategy to more efficiently and quickly take him out. You keep saying Kakashi couldn't do it, when he's already beaten Zabuza twice before when he got serious.

Zabuza lost because Kakashi is a more capable ninja. Kakashi never controlled his mind, only Koto can do that. Kakashi met each of Zabuza'a jutsu head on, so he had just as much power. In fact, Kakashi was clashing with Zabuza's huge blade with just a kunai. Kakashi was not being overpowered.

Omoi beat Naruto's clone so long ago. We use the most recent feats the characters show. In this thread, Naruto is Hokage. So all his feats up until present are considered. And Naruto demonstrated that his clones could endure hits as strong as Chidori now. You're bringing up an old feat, and it's irrelevant now. That's like me saying, "Naruto can't win because he could barely make 2 Rasenshuriken." When we know he can make basically as many as he wants now. Naruto's clones are more durable than you accept.

I used Naruto vs Third Raikage as an example. Why? Naruto split off like 12 clones. Each clone had 1/13 chakra, or 7.69% chakra. How does Kisame's 30% fare now? Seriously, I counted the panel where he split them off. You can go check if you like.

You see nothing that stated Might Dai was weaker? I literally just told you. There's also the fact that he never rose past Genin, and was failing like every mission set for him. Also, the the Seven Swordsmen are nowhere near TTJ Madara, who Gai was able to fight in his 8 Gates.

Really. You think Madara is gonna stop mid battle to state every facet of the technique for the guy who's currently using it. Cmon now.

I think you are the one that has the problem here. Kakashi is a sensor ninja now? lol. I am not even going to argue that I am just going to point to this when ever someone said he is not. because he can sense people now and even impressing a senjutsu user.

That being said. Kakashi lost to Zabuza when they fought then you have this ''despite his ruthlessness, Zabuza was possessed of a softer side that he himself was largely unaware of. After Haku's death, while Zabuza initially only laughs at his usefulness, Kakashi notes Zabuza is no longer able to fight to his true potential as he is secretly distraught at Haku's loss. In his last moments, Zabuza realised how deeply he truly cared for Haku,'' So Zabuza is stronger and is the winner of the fight with out anyone to Help Kakashi.

Zabuza lost to do the Sharigan and teamwork alone he is not going to be able to take on a stronger fighter in one v one inside of the Mist. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/c4/50/9bc450ff96148288c10b3740ffe9a975.png

I am bringing up the thousands of old feats and the omoi feat around the time of the 3rd Raikage feat you talked about. that makes you wonder how would that fight have went if not for the guy with the rubber ball and the 8 tails giving him information. that being said if you are talking the hypothetical non-sage kage bunshin endurance vs mizu bunshin endurance that has been stated to be greater then the kage bunshin in everyway and alow full use of the users ablity's. Then we would also assume Kisame, Zabuza and Mangetsu and the other Swordsmen with mizu bunshin could make %30 %50 70% clones that would wipe the floor with the fodder Shadow clones.

Naruto made 7% Shadow clones? vs Kisame's 30% Waterclone + 6 other kage level swordsmen water clones.

Let's put the possablity of Kisame, Mangetsu or Zabuza making the insane 70% water clones to the side. Kisame's 30% clone was claimed to have super human strength and took hits from Might Guy with out braking made other water clones while holding guy's team in water prisons with water clones and then uses the giant water shockwave, shark bomb and five hungry sharks over powering might guy into the 6th gate. all from a 30% mizu bunshin.

And we are putting them up vs 12 7% shadow clones that have taken out fodder zetsu and was defeated by black zetsu and Omoi from what I remimber. that seems to be quite the differance in terms of quality vs quanity.

Again nothing anywhere showed Might Dai has weaker mussle mass then Might Guy or that the 8th gate is a power muliplayer like you said before. When Madera fight guy he made remarks about the red mist being a sigh of great power not that the red mist some power that only worked for some.

If anything the team of Swordsmen was weaker as it did not Have Kisame or Zabuza who was stronger then Fuguki and Juzo his dad fought. so the stronger team will do even better figthing the Death gate user given all the older members will still die from the fight. Mangetsu or Chojuro would add quite a bit to the team meaning a stronger fight for Guy.

The 7 Swordsmen of the Mist come from the 1st Mizukage era meaning Hashirama era meaning Madera era. if they was weak then Hashirama could have defeated the land of waves and that did not happen. So they are in fact Madera level and defeating a death gate user and tailed beast is reason enough to say they are.

When Madera was fighting the 5 kage he was standing there letting them try to fight him has he said his era was stronger. he even stoped and sat down and would not fight a hashirama wood clone.