Talk:Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki

Chakra natures
Is the information that Rinnegan gives the user ability to master all basic chakra natures enough to put them in his infobox?--LeafShinobi (talk) 16:51, October 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, but the fact that he created ninjutsu is enough to put it there.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:12, October 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * He discovered the mysteries of chakra. Considering that after the Sage, Madara is the earliest known user of the Rinnegan, and that people already fabled the Rinnegan as allowing one to use the five natures, it makes sense for him to be listed as having them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:37, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention he created that Banana Fan thingamajig. I don't think he could've made that without knowing them. Skitts (talk) 18:29, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Rinnegan
Are we really sure that Sage had the Rinnegan before becoming a host ? I think it's a speculation.--Elveonora (talk) 16:07, November 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem with that statement is that we've only seen him with the Rinnegan. Joshbl56  18:17, November 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't understand how the two incidents are related? The eldest son wouldn't have inherited a dōjutsu if that were the case, tailed beast skills aren't hereditary.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:20, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure ? Naruto and Gaara are affected by their Tailed Beasts and tell this to Uchiha. Ten-Tails has eye that looks like Sharingan, if having a tailed beast is not hereditary, then there would be no Sharingan in Uchiha. Unless Sage had Sharingan as well. --Elveonora (talk) 19:02, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure given the information we have currently. Naruto and "Gaara" (to some extent though his father has the same eyes so I can't speak 100% about the rings or even his abilities) gained physical traits from their beasts, not otherwise. There is Rōshi but at the same time we don't know if he'd be able to use it without the beast. The Sharingan is an "offspring" of the original and apparently only dōjutsu: the Rinnegan. We've even seen where Kabuto has said "what lies beyond the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan..." It seems like somewhere along the line on descendants the eyes changed etc. The Jūbi's eye cab look like all three of the great dōjutsu if you wanted it to.--Cerez365™ 19:16, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

We are at least pretty sure (at least now) that Sharingan is from Ten-Tails, unless as I said it would mean that Sage had both. That would really make him a God. I don't think he had any eye powers before of becoming a host, that's why I'm discussing this and why the page is speculative saying he found jutsu thanks to Rinnegan. --Elveonora (talk) 19:22, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I would like to hear more people's opinions on this and admin's as well. --Elveonora (talk) 20:27, November 28, 2011 (UTC)

I think that saying he got the Rinnegan because he became a host is highly speculative. We've known him as having the kekkei genkai for much longer than him having the beast. Like it was said already, there we've never seen him without the Rinnegan, or at least awakening it for the first time. Considering what we know about it, I think it's least speculative to say he had it before. While sealing the Ten-Tails is a big feat, he is first and foremost known for discovering chakra and creating what came to be called ninjutsu. To seal something, use of fūinjutsu is required, ergo, we would have had to discover ninjutsu before sealing the Ten-Tails. The Rinnegan was said to allow one to use all sorts of ninjutsu. This leads me to him having the Rinnegan before sealing the Ten-Tails. I'm not saying the other way is impossible, but it would require more explanation, so this sounds much more likely to me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:01, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Rinnegan has no genjutsu powers we know of. That would make it as rare as Wood Release Thinking that the 2 most powerful abilities (Sharingan and Rinnegan) in Narutoverse are just a mere mutation is silly. So6p being really a demi-God is possible. As I said, Uchiha are descended from So6p ... they possess the Sharingan. People say that Sage casted a genjutsu on Ten-Tails and thats why its eyes has the Rinnegan like pattern. As I said, there are no genjutsu powers of Rinnegan we know of. That would still mean that Sharingan is from Ten-Tails and that Tailed Beast powers are hereditary. Another but weird possibility is that Sage's original eyes were Sharingan and he get the Rinnegan from Ten-Tails. It would be much more believable one of his sons inherited the eyes from him and not from the beast inside of him. --Elveonora (talk) 22:39, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * And we know Ice Release, Wood Release much longer that them being a KKG.
 * We have not seen Nagato's eyes without the Rinnegan as well
 * We have not seen So6p awakening it, seriously ? We have not yet seen him at all other than the silhouette.
 * Madara can switch between the Rinnegan and EMS ... and turn them on and off.
 * The point being that the Rinnegan and Sharingan are the one and same eyes, meaning that Sharingan has not devolved from Rinnegan nor evolved.
 * Kabuto said it's a natural evolution meaning it's possible to attain the Rinnegan from a Sharingan by normal but unknown means.
 * Taking Hashirama's cells is a forced evolution.
 * When Rinnegan and Sharingan were once basically the same, this mean Sage had a Sharingan as well.
 * This would mean that the Ten-Tail's single unique eye is not unique at all and it was just a result of being under So6p's genjutsu.
 * If Sage was born with the Rinnegan, it must really be just a mutation as Kakashi said.
 * Or Sage was really a demi-God
 * Or the most possible variant is he get that from Ten-Tails.

-Ahem- Not a forum. Anyway, the Sage did not have the Sharingan. I don't have to theorize or anything to state that. His son had his own dojutsu, which was visually very similar to the Rinnegan. The Sharingan evolved from the Elder Son's dojutus, ergo it is very odd to say the Sage had it. And I too find it very unlikely and much less speculative to say he had the Rinnegan before the Jubi sealing. Being able to see chakra would definitely be a big help in divining the mysteries of chakra, which he did. Skitts (talk) 22:43, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

Read again please. If Rinnegan is a natural evolution from Sharingan, this would make Sharingan a degradation. If Uchiha got the Sharingan from Ten-Tails, this mean it's not related to Rinnegan since you say Sage had it before sealing thus it cant be an degradation nor evolution of it. If Sage had both Sharingan and Rinnegan before sealing, this would make it more believable that one of his son's line inherited the eyes from Sage rather than fron the Ten-Tails ... but this would leave the Ten-Tail's without any kind of unique eye thus the only possible version is Sage getting an eye technique after the sealing. And I know its not a forum ... I'm discussing it to improve the page. Saying Sage found chakra/jutsu thanks to being born with Rinnegan was not confirmed and it's more of a speculation to what Im saying. --Elveonora (talk) 23:10, November 29, 2011 (UTC)