Talk:Toneri Ōtsutsuki

Image and description of appearance
Since we already have the article now, could we also use one of the images provided in one of the threads for his infobox and appearance-section? Or would that somehow go against spoiler policies or whatnot? Norleon (talk) 12:29, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Wait for official art, not a photo of a magazine with a scan on it--Elve Talk Page 12:32, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, the photo is of course out of the question, the images depicted in the magazine are official artwork though. Or am I mistaken here? Norleon (talk) 12:37, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * They are, but they wouldn't serve as infobox image, maybe for "creation and conception" section or so, not to mention they would have to be first-hand scans, not photos of scans--Elve Talk Page 12:49, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm currently in school right now, but I want to pose a question: Are we absolutely sure he even has the Byakugan? I'm looking at a scan on Saiyan Island that shows him having crystal blue eyes, although I'll admit that his other face shots make him look like has the Byakugan.-- Ninja Sheik  13:28, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * He appears to have the byakugan in Kishimoto's sketches, which may mean that they're stolen, or that Kishimoto's sketch just didn't include the final detail for his eyes (which seems unlikely to me). FF-Suzaku (talk) 17:45, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

If he doesn't that would explain why he kidnapped a girl who does.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:34, October 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I heard one of the translations is that Toneri has a 'Advanced Byakugan'. Shouldn't he have Byakugan and that mentioned?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:50, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * If you can give us a source, sure. • Seelentau 愛 議 01:57, October 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Think it is takl on Narutoforums. I'll ask for his translation.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:18, October 30, 2014 (UTC)

Nemu Takara
Why was this trivia removed. they look exactly alike except for hair color. Munchvtec (talk) 16:46, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

heres a link to his picture, it's toneri with his eyes shut pretty much. http://aonoexorcist.wikia.com/wiki/Nemu_Takara Munchvtec (talk) 16:50, October 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * If we list every character who looks like another character, the trivia sections would be miles long. FF-Suzaku (talk) 17:41, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

True i guess. Munchvtec (talk) 17:46, October 29, 2014 (UTC)

puppets or shinobi?
I've seen conflicting statements on the matter. Are his subordinates the former or latter?--Elve Talk Page 15:04, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

We probably won't know until new scans come out. Munchvtec (talk) 18:27, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

Him & Kumogakure
The profile said that he failed to capture Hinata, prior The Last.

I realized this might had anything to do with Kumogakure in a past. I mean look at Kurama (later with Kushina along) for example, until their subjects change on capturing Hinata. -- ScottKazama (talk) 11:00, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * We will find out once the movie releases.--Elve Talk Page 16:15, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Family Chart
HERE --&#42;MsIsamisa (talk) 16:32, November 22, 2014 (UTC)

Height
Toneri's height is 1,84m. Can someone with editing powers include that?Toneri Narsha (talk) 16:15, November 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * First, please sign your posts with ~
 * Second, a random picture that doesn't state anything is not a source. We do not include heights if they're not given in a databook. Until the Retsu no Sho is released, we won't be adding a height to the infobox. --Sajuuk Talk Page 16:09, November 23, 2014 (UTC)

I forgot, sorry. And he is a movie characters, it isn't like he will have a DB entry or something like that. But ok, I understood why it isn't possible. Narsha (talk) 16:15, November 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe Retsu no Sho is a databook specifically covering the last few chapters of the manga (those not covered by Jin no Sho) and Naruto the Movie: The Last, because that movie is canonical to the story line (it covers the stuff in the timeskip between 699 and 700). --Sajuuk Talk Page 16:18, November 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not a random picture, Spey-kun. It's sketched by Tetsuya Nishio, the characters designer of Naruto anime, making that image legit. So I don't have problem to put it into his infobox. Yeah, we should wait for the Retsu no Sho release to confirm more about this, but putting the height from the settei is not wrong at all. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 20:11, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

Settei are official sketches and the only time we do not add settei heights is when they are retconned by an even more official source such as a Databook or the manga itself. Toneri is 184cm tall and that is all there is to it. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 08:32, December 6, 2014 (UTC)

Appear in Anime and Manga
Who can explain for me? I can't find this information.--Sulina (talk) 04:30, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Last will have a manga tie-in included in the movie guidebook I believe. Not sure why anime tho--Elve Talk Page 11:49, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * The animators will probably include the movie as a filler for the timeskip, which they normally do to fill in those big jumps in the manga (eg Konoha History Arc). --Sajuuk Talk Page 12:06, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now for the actual reason, he's labeled for just about everything because otherwise he doesn't show up in the Otsutsuki clan article if he isn't labeled to appear in the manga or anime.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 12:43, November 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * I edited the infobox so that it should no longer be necessary to list him as being from the Anime and Manga. It currently looks like it's working but we won't be sure until the cache updates tomorrow (today?). ~SnapperTo 19:31, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

Since the page is locked…
Can some sysop add this image to the article, maybe in the appropriate section? Many thanks.--JOA20 07:08, December 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * What would the caption be? ~SnapperTo 17:08, December 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like chakra mode to me, but I suggest we wait. I thought there's a spoiler policy or something. Wait 4 days, or so--Elve Talk Page 17:10, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Manga appearance as well?
Masashi Kishimoto just recently released a manga art book for "The Last: Naruto the Movie", so shouldn't it say in his profile box (or whatever you call it -_-) that he has made an appearance in the manga as well? (Keep in mind that it's a MANGA book by the author himself) Rainonme2 (talk) 07:22, December 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not a manga book, it's a movie book. He hasn't appeared in the manga (001-700). • Seelentau 愛 議 08:02, December 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * 0_o point being it's drawn not animated?--Elve Talk Page 13:41, December 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Mine? My point is that the drawings in the book are mostly sketches for the movie. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:22, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Hold on Seelentau, there are also character profiles AND some manga sketches as well. Remember, a lot of the information this wiki has on Naruto        is not from the manga but other books Masashi Kishimoto has written. So if you're going to say that the information in this special art book shouldn't be accounted for, should we also include information from other source materials such as the Databooks? Rainonme2 (talk) 07:09, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said that. I just said that he doesn't appear in the manga and that the drawn sketches are for the movie. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:27, December 8, 2014 (UTC)

unlock
when will this article be unlocked? Munchvtec (talk) 14:20, December 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * it's already unlocked actually just now Kunoichi101 (talk) 21:03, December 10, 2014 (UTC)

Sole member of his clan;
Isn't it given in Retsu no Sho that he's the sole surviving member of his clan. Should we add it? --Hisana456 (talk) 09:52, December 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * If anything, it should be added that Hamura died long ago. Iloveinoxxx (talk) 10:32, December 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Otsutsuki Clan wiped itself out in a civil war when he was still young, and now he's the last surviving member.

Abilities
After consulting several blogs, summaries, and a wiki, here are Toneri's known abilities. Some have official names, others don't:

Hopefully some more clarifications will come. I was a bit disappointed that Retsu no Sho didn't actually contain a jutsu database for the movie. FF-Suzaku (talk) 22:29, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Puppet Technique - There are a great many puppets on the moon which Toneri controls. He apparantly controls them by infusing their bodies with chakra, rather than using strings.
 * He is also able to control humans by releasing a green sphere of chakra and sending it into their body. Probably related to the Otsutsuki version of Puppet Technique. He can also remove the sphere or detonate it.
 * Summoning Technique - He summons giant carrion birds, including a crow and a vulture, to ride on.
 * Chakra absorption - Creates a green orb that can drain chakra from a distance. He uses this to absorb Naruto's Kurama Chakra Mode after Hinata takes Hanabi's Nyakugan back.
 * - After taking Hanabi's Byakugan, he awakens the power of countless generations of sealed Byakugan that were sacrificed by the Otsutsuki Clan. The Tenseigan is roughly on par with the Rinnegan, in terms of strength, and he's said to be as powerful as Madara when using it.
 * - Chakra mode awakened along with the Tenseigan, roughly on par with Naruto's Kurama Chakra Mode.
 * Control of attractive and repuslive forces - Not confirmed to be called Shinra Tensei / Basho Ten'in, but reportedly works the same way. He uses it to control meteors and the moon.
 * Six Paths Flight - He can fly, presumably using this power.
 * Chakra Orbs - Not confirmed to be Truthseeker Orbs but that's what most people are calling them, and they reportedly work the same way. His presumably glow green because they're infused with chakra from his Tenseigan Chakra Mode.
 * - Forms his chakra into a tornado that can parry Naruto's Kurama Chakra Mode Rasenrengan. When the two clash it tears a hole in the moon. I don't have the kana reading, but it's presumably Ginrin Tensei Baku.
 * - Forms his chakra into a giant golden sword. Powerful enough to cut the moon in half. I don't have the kana reading, but it's presumably either Kinrin Tensei Baku or Kanawa Tensei Baku.
 * - From the Naruto: Shinobi Collection mobile social game in Japan. I don't have the Toneri card in my collection yet so I can't describe what it looks like, but it's a single target attack. I don't have the kana reading, but it's presumably Kinbō Tensei Baku.
 * Unnamed transformation - After Hinata removes Hanabi's eyes from Toneri, the many Byakugan sealed in the Tenseigan altar are drawn to and cling to Toneri's body and he begins to undergo a monstrous transformation. Naruto reaches out and takes his hand, saving him.
 * Wait a second. Doesn't that mean the Byakugan is also the Ohtsutsuki's kekkei genkai?--JOA20 22:35, December 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * It does, their clan Kekkei Genkei are Byakugan and Tenseigan. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:57, December 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * So it's revealed that Toneri uses an orb to absorb Naruto's chakra at one point. Toneri is basically able to use something similar to Truth-Seeking Balls and Naruto isn't able to use his TSB in his clash with Toneri, and Naruto is apperently using his Tailed Beast Sage Mode in the movie rather than his Six Paths Sage Mode. And I hear from @ItachiWasAHero that he read somewhere that Toneri took Naruto's Six Paths Chakra from him in one of their fights, a certain chakra that is required for usage of the Six Paths Sage Mode and Toneri's presumed usage of Six Paths Flight. Beginning to think what @ItachiWasAHero read somewhere is valid, meaning that Toneri did in fact take Naruto's Six Paths Chakra, but that's just me. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 01:17, December 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no clue exactly how valid the information I read was though... but I think I found it somewhere on naruto forums in early november. Toneri was supposed to have stolen his six paths chakra in their first encounter and it seems Naruto never gets it back ItachiWasAHero (talk) 05:00, December 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Narutoforums.com? There were a lot of spoilers there... for example, I saw a discussion about the Tenseigan around that time, which turned out to be true. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 05:05, December 14, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... maybe it is entirely true then. Now just to wait for the HD English Subbed Rip to come out. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:11, December 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * Watching the leaked cam footage, the orbs do indeed appear to be Truthseeker Orbs. He has nine, and they only glow green when he's infusing them with his chakra to attack. At one point he splits them into several smaller black orbs, infuses them with chakra and launches a flurry to destroy several of Naruto's clones, then draws them back to form a black dome to shield against Naruto's Super Odama Rasengan Barrage. FF-Suzaku (talk) 06:41, December 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Still got more to go. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 07:01, January 28, 2015 (UTC)

As strong as Madara
Does the part where Toneri's power is comparable as Madara's have a source? I can't seem to find one anywhere. All forums I seem to visit seem to only cite *this* place as the source for that claim. Apparently the movie databook makes no comparison to Toneri and Madara's strength at all. Nor does the film, as far as I know.
 * If I'm right, I think we should change the entries of Toneri/Tenseigan which mention Madara. If not, I think we should really source them. --Jingo12 (talk) 05:46, January 4, 2015 (UTC)


 * The line was added here. You may want to ask the user who added it how he came to that conclusion. ~SnapperTo 18:58, January 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't we *not* add that entry in that case? I mean if you're telling me to ask the user how he reached that conclusion, that tells me that there is no bona fide source for that claim. Ergo we shouldn't be adding conclusions that users make without any sufficient citation. --Jingo12 (talk) 00:39, January 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Look above at the abilites header on this page FF-Suzaku is one of are translators. (Kuroiraikou (talk) 10:31, January 5, 2015 (UTC))
 * All these power comparisons are redundant anyway. Rather than comparing him to Madara, mention he was strong enough to face Naruto--Elve Talk Page 13:53, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

From all the sources I come across, this wiki is literally the only place which makes the comparison between Toneri and Madara. Maybe it is worth having another look at the movie databook? --Jingo12 (talk) 03:02, January 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you feel the line is in error you are free to remove it. ~SnapperTo 19:36, January 7, 2015 (UTC)

Married?
So in the Last, Hinata agreed to marry Toneri and later they have a marriage ceremony. During the ceremony, Hinata was under Toneri's control and towards the end Naruto interrupts. It appears they did get married as Toneri referred to Hinata as his wife afterwards. So my question is are they technically married as Hinata agreed to marry him and their marriage ceremony was a success but at the time she was being 'mind" controlled? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:36, January 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, he wedding ceremony was stopped in time by Naruto (of course). Toneri is a total romeo, he's been calling Hinata his bride since his debut in the film, when he first encountered her!--Hisana456 (talk) 10:42, January 17, 2015 (UTC)

Techniques, not showing up on Toneri's infobox
By the looks of things, movie-only techniques don't seem to show up on Toneri's infobox. Any way to fix that? And maybe at the same time, removing "(Movie only)" these three articles without making 'em disappear from the infobox as well?--Omojuze (talk) 19:52, January 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bump!--Omojuze (talk) 06:30, January 30, 2015 (UTC)

Toneri Mugshot
should we change Toneri's profile image to a different one? the current image is actually a puppet in his image. Kunoichi101 (talk) 07:26, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Tenseigan image?
Why is there a MS paint image made by a little child in the tenseigan section? I apologize for the insult in advance, but as you may be able to tell with my tone here, I am utterly confused. I thought there was rules against images that are not present within manga/anime?

00:43, February 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's an official image. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:51, February 20, 2015 (UTC)

from where? lol 01:47, February 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Leaked concept art, I think. • Seelentau 愛 議 02:20, February 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a colored concept drawn by Kishi. It will more than likely be replaced with something of higher quality in the future though.--Elve Talk Page 10:50, February 20, 2015 (UTC)

Jutsu List
Why isn't all of Toneri's jutsu listed in his infobox? He's used several jutsu in the movie, I'm just wondering why they aren't there. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 23:07, March 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * You're right, it isn't there. I even null edited the page. Thanks for pointing that out, we'll work on it. 23:13, March 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * also there's a mistake that all jutsu or some are somehow anime, manga, and movie, but all jutsu are movie-only. Kunoichi101 (talk) 15:18, March 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried another modification to the infobox. Either there's a time delay before the change is reflected or it didn't work.
 * The anime/manga labels are intentional to get stuff to be listed through semantics where desired. The labels in-infoobox are correct, so the unseen anime/manga tags aren't an issue. ~SnapperTo 19:24, March 10, 2015 (UTC)

Puppets Yello Spheres
What jutsu are those puppets using when they are shooting with those yellow balls?Ernie (Admin)(Dissi) 21:25, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * The giant Tenseigan apparently powers them, so they are shooting the giant Tenseigan chakra?--Elve Talk Page 09:14, July 24, 2015 (UTC)

Why is Toneri listed as having no Jutsu?
--DC52 (talk) 21:01, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * A glitch with infoboxes. Honestly, I think the easiest way would be to tag canon movie techniques and characters as "anime" and "manga" media and not add a suffix (movie, anime only, etc.) to canon non-movie techniques. I'm certain it's possible. It'd be a bit inaccurate, but it would be the least frustrating.--Omojuze (talk) 21:04, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see why we shouldn't go with your idea to be honest Omo. There are so few canon movies out there anyway, and it's not like people don't know which movies this applies to. Plus, we could always add a trivia note which I believe would offset any inaccuracies the wiki's afraid of.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 21:42, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * I have to agree as well it's getting ridiculous. "The Last" and "Boruto" are canon so let's not put the (movie only) thing next to their jutsus when it's obvious this canon anyway and the closest we'll get to them in manga. Shock Dragoon (talk) 21:56, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why aren't movie techniques allowed to show up in the infoboxs anyways?--Kuroiraikou (talk) 16:48, August 11, 2015 (UTC)

Headshot Votes
just wanting to let anyone choose which headshot image is better for Toneri's article. Here's two links for the headshot: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Toneri_Headshot.png http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Toneri_Otsutsuki.png

I want anyone's opinion about the headshot on this talk page and i hope they'll decide. Kunoichi101 (talk) 00:07, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I'm creating trouble by adding this headshot but I felt it suited this article better because one, it shows the Tenseigan, and two, it's actually Toneri rather than a puppet duplicate. NewGenToneri (talk) 00:39, August 21, 2015 (UTC)NewGenToneri
 * it's ok. i mean the current headshot is kinda too greeny. Kunoichi101 (talk) 01:27, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Something with better lighting.--Elve Talk Page 15:26, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * The current one is fine imo. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 15:37, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * But do you know the current one is not the real "Toneri", but a puppet? Kunoichi101 (talk) 16:37, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Semantics. It imitates his likeness perfectly, and that's all the infobox image needs; a good quality, front-facing image of the person's face.--Atrix471 (talk) 17:28, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * P̶r̶e̶f̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶a̶i̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶g̶l̶e̶. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:34, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I uploaded a better version of the image, you can check it out. I think the new pic is better too because of the colors...Chieko ^_^ (talk) 18:53, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I change my vote after seeing the version Chieko uploaded for the new image XD. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 19:10, August 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * so should we try giving it a looksie? 00:17, August 22, 2015 (UTC)NewGenToneri

It's perfect thnx to Chieko-san-chan this voting talk is now adjourned. Kunoichi101 (talk) 00:25, August 22, 2015 (UTC)

Trivia
Would it be worth adding that Toneri was the only person to be effected by the Infinite Tsukuyomi but not the God: Nativity of a World of Trees? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 09:29, September 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * He was affected by it? When? Never heard of that happening, was it actually said in the movie?...--Omojuze (talk) 10:00, September 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't he be effected by it? The technique traps anyone within the light and he was well within range of the light. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:34, September 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * The light reflected off the moon. He was inside the moon. In order to reflect, it needs to collide with the moon and come back, so I doubt it would take effect on those inside the moon. --Atrix471 (talk) 10:37, September 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * Excuse my science knowledge but doesn't light reflect? If the light comes from the moons surface and hits the earth, wouldn't that penetrating light reflect back towards the moon? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:54, September 1, 2015 (UTC)
 * The range of the technique is far too unspecified to tell. Also, applying science in Naruto, let alone manga series. Wut!? >.< This is the same world where people can float in midair for convenience and use techniques that defy any laws of physics and logic altogether. And with the whole light thing, no I don't think so, I'm a bit rusty on physics after the summer, tho. Light never comes from the moon, it comes from the sun, what we see as a moonlight is an illusion of the moon reflecting the sun and acting sorta like a mirror. This technique literally, makes moon "glow".--Omojuze (talk) 11:37, September 1, 2015 (UTC)

flight?
Didn't he show it?--Elve Talk Page 18:06, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Profile pic
how about this one? --AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 20:11, January 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Toneri_%C5%8Ctsutsuki#Headshot_Votes i thought we already decided the headshot vote last year. Kunoichi101 (talk) 20:14, January 19, 2016 (UTC)