Talk:Jigen

Leader
Was that actually stated that he is one?--Elve Talk Page 13:58, April 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * No. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:54, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * Good, because not only has that never been clearly stated, I think it would be strange for the leader to be number 4. For all we know, he is just second in command, the acting leader when the true leader is absent or something.--Elve Talk Page 09:13, April 30, 2018 (UTC)

black rods
Aren't they the same old Rinnegan ones? And yes, I know we haven't seen any Rinnegan from Jigen, but even the Gedo Mazo could spawn black rods without it--Elve Talk Page 08:47, July 22, 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about it. This seems to be a logical assumption but they work somewhat differently from the Rinnegan rods. I mean, Naruto said that the rods were absorbing his chakra, while we know that Rinnegan rods didn't have the absorption quality, only inserting user's chakra to hinder the movements. Plus, Naruto was surprised to see how Jigen's roads work, which is weird for a person who's already seen Nagato's and Momoshiki's receivers in action. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 09:24, July 22, 2019 (UTC)

Jigen's abilities
I don't think his ability to shrink and return objects to normal size is what he used to replace the furniture destroyed by Delta at all. Not only would this imply that jigen has a microscopic drink, lit candle, table, and food there? but we see the destroyed table to the side as well Kingomanoki (talk) 17:13, August 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * Dude, you should read the most recent chapters before making such remarks.
 * P. S. Maybe I'm not necessarily right, but the current ability of Jigen is more plausable for an explanation than some unknown technique. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:50, August 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * I...did look at the recent chapter. Otherwise I wouldn't be making such a remark. The new chapter showcases his ability to shrink and grow things to their original size. I'm simply questioning why would this technique be the same thing he used to create another table? unless you you're saying he had food, drinks, candles, and a spare table already there to return them to their normal size? But then again, it's not like i'm absolutely right either, I just can't see how. Kingomanoki (talk) 20:34, August 20, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with them not being the same ability. It would be silly to think he had a backup table, food, and candle shrunk down somewhere but to enlarge them when Delta got mad. Not to mention the destroyed table and items were still on the floor when he made new ones appear. Princeharris1993 11:38, August 21, 2019 (UTC)

Size Alteration vs Object Recreation / Wrong Reference
Jigen appears to clearly be using two different techniques. Jigen didn't simply enlarge a spare table he had, he literally spawned a brand new copy of the table, candle, food, etc.

Also, I don't know who is doing the references, but Boruto chapter 23, page 6 clearly shows Koji Kashin about to use the True Fire of Samadhi on Konohamaru and company, NOT Jigen using his Object Recreation technique or anything alluding to it.

I mean, would Jigen really keep a microscopic table, food and candles around just to enlarge them should Delta get mad and destroy them? Sasuke said Jiren has several secrets, and he didn't get a chance to state what the other one was.

"Outside of combat he also uses the technique for more mundane purposes, such as replacing home furnishings destroyed by Delta.[6]" - There is nothing in the manga that I can read that states they are the same technique or even hints at it. Would be nice if someone corrected the information on the page rather than assume they are the same technique. At least a reason for such conclusion would be nice. -- Princeharris1993 01:17, August 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, I wonder why no one has touched it yet or questioned it other than us. Kingomanoki (talk) 18:28, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

Ok now they've completely removed it.. Kingomanoki (talk) 02:33, September 8, 2019 (UTC)

Status
As revealed in Chapter 46, Jigen has been all but erased from existence. Should his status be changed to at least "incapacitated"?--Steveo920 (talk) 14:26, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * He was able to shed a tear after Naruto and Sasuke's defeat, so his existence is still intact. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:59, May 24, 2020 (UTC)

He's still there he just has no control whatsoever FlatZone (talk) 16:54, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * For me, his status is rather irrelevant, but shouldn't we move most of the contents to Isshiki Ōtsutsuki page? I mean, since it was revealed that Isshiki has controlled Jigen from the very beginng, shouldn't it be obvious that all his actions, abilities and personality belong to Isshiki and Isshiki alone? It's somewhat similar to Nagato using Yahiko as a Pain body - all the info of Pain-Yahiko doings still reside on Nagato's page instead of Yahiko's. Shouldn't we do the same to Isshiki and Jigen?Ravenlot 27 (talk) 21:51, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 02:06, May 25, 2020 (UTC)

Restoration Ability
I noticed my edit was undone under the assumption that it was just something he had previously shrunken down. That's false as the chapter showed the destroyed table, candles, and even the steak he just cut, all on the ground. Yet everything was duplicated and restored back to their previous points. We were even shown both simultaneously in the same panel. It wouldn't make sense for him to casually keep duplicated wine, candles and a steak he just cut, shrunken down. He literally just cut the steak, lol.

So far, his shrinking ability has only been stated to shrink and restore objects that aren't living, excluding himself, but no character mentioned anything about the unnamed ability he already displayed. The Black Rods he uses are unnamed, but are allowed to remain on the page, yet my edit that was written based off what was shown in the manga was revised based on an assumption. Amado never even mentioned Jigen or Isshiki having the ability to restore things.

My Edit: "He can generate complete duplicates of damaged and destroyed objects and chemical reactions, as they were in their previous state. (Reference: Boruto chapter 24, page 5)

They don't even resemble the same ability. Chapter 24 Page 1 shows Jigen cutting his steak and eating a piece. Page 2 shows Jigen's steak in 2 portions. Page 4 shows Delta destroying the table and ruining dinner for Jigen. Page 5 shows Jigen restoring everything that was destroyed and ruined. Page 6 shows the restored table and contents and the destroyed items still laying on the floor, simultaneously.

Based on everything we were provided in the manga by the characters themselves and visually, Sukunahikona only changes the size of objects. It was never implied or stated that it duplicates or restores objects, thus making this "unnamed technique" a different technique entirely.

My edit was revised with the note: "pretty sure we're considering these to be stuff he has in miniature", yet, none of the feat itself is even included in the pages of Jigen, Isshiki Otsutsuki, or Sukunahikona. Why say you include it if you don't even mention it on any of the pages? It's practically disregarding the feat in its entirety.

Relationship Status
Since Isshiki's page has Jigen as "Vessel" on the Relationship section of his infobox, shouldn't Jigen have Isshiki as, essentially, "Host" placed into his Infobox's relationship section, in reverse? I mean, it doesn't make sense having only one of them listed, but not the other way around.

HygorBohmHubner (talk) 04:06, June 19, 2020 (UTC)