Talk:Zabuza Momochi

The Sword of Zabuza
I am unsure of this bit of information, but I read from somewhere that Zabuza's sword's name is Executioner, in reference to its physical shape of that of a guillotine blade. Yes? No? --Dubtiger 19:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe tht I read somewhere that it is called the Guillotine Sword, but I am not sure, I'll edit if I get any more info on this topic for you. --Ikijime Koorimusha 20:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hehe... Found this on the wiki just after I posted... ''His weapon of choice is a Zanbatō, which translates into "horse slayer" as it was intended to cleave the head of a horse off with its massive weight and size. He seems to prefer water jutsu, this is probably due to him being from the Hidden Mist. Although the zanbato's name was never mentioned at all, Suigetsu mentioned that its name is Executioner. Another suggested translation of zanbato is "guillotine", which implies that it is used to cleave necks. The circle cut out of the top and the semicircle near the handle, as demonstrated by Suigetsu later in the manga, seem to fit this. purpose aptly

'' Peace! --Ikijime Koorimusha 20:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Zabuza's Rank
There seems to be some dispute over Zabuza being a Jonin, or ANBU.

Personally I don't see why they are being treated as mutually exclusive. Tenzo/Yamato is an example of a shinobi whose skill is recognized as that of a Jonin, and is a member of ANBU. It also seems clear from the dialog that the reader being clued in to his rank.

Example: Jonin

Kakashi: "If we get attacked again it will surely not be a Chunin, but a Jonin." Ch.11 Kakashi: "This one's on a whole other level." Ch.11 Sasuke: "The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed." Ch.12

Example: ANBU

Zabuza: "When I was a member of the Hidden Mist's assassin team..." Ch.12

Unless there is some data book that ranks Zabuza specifically lower than a Jonin it seems clear he was both. Just my two cents. Arrancar79 16:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The databooks treat ANBU as a separate and higher rank then jōnin. Also, it has never actually been said that Zabuza was a jōnin. Only that he was an ANBU.
 * Just because he was said to be as strong as a jōnin doesn't mean he ever actually held that rank.
 * By the way, about your quotes:
 * Kakashi: "If we get attacked again it will surely not be a Chunin, but a Jonin." Ch.11
 * At least in the Japanese manga, Kakashi specifically talks about the level of the attackers, not their actual rank. Obviously, Zabuza is as strong as a jōnin, but that doesn't mean he ever was one. Haku was at least as strong as a chūnin, perhaps even a Jōnin, but he never held either rank.
 * Kakashi: "This one's on a whole other level." Ch.11
 * Zabuza was on a whole other level. As a former ANBU, Zabuza would have been far stronger than the chūnin-level Demon Brothers.
 * Sasuke: "The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed." Ch.12
 * Sasuke was referring directly to Kakashi's killing intent here.
 * --ShounenSuki 16:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Even ANBU are ranked as other ninja.


 * Haku was not trained by a Hidden Village with an official military like Zabuza, so that seems beside the point.


 * Good point "a whole other level" is vague. Though Kakashi was aware of who the "Chunin" Demon Brothers were, and certainly who they worked for. The identity of the "Jonin" he expected was not just a guess. Being missing-nin, as well as the attempted assassin of the Mizukage they were in his Bingo Book. We can be sure he got a lot of attention in its pages.


 * I must disagree, "What incredibly dangerous chakra, It feels like I'll be killed if I make a single move. This could drive a person crazy... The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed... I can't take it... I'd almost rather die and get it over with..." This thought came after Zabuza faded into the mist, and began to contemplate out loud how he would kill them. The mind games are what put Sasuke on edge.


 * Naruto "This is a Jonin, a real ninja." Ch.13


 * Being one of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist it is unlikely he would be less than Jonin rank, ANBU or not.

Arrancar79 21:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Even ANBU are ranked as other ninja.
 * Really? Says who? ANBU don't even have to have graduated from the Academy. They are hand-picked by the Hokage. They might assume a normal rank while undercover among regular shinobi (e.g. Yamato), but that doesn't mean they actually hold that rank.
 * Haku was not trained by a Hidden Village with an official military like Zabuza, so that seems beside the point.
 * All right, what about Naruto? He's a genin, yet he's strong enough to fight Akatsuki members. He's easily chūnin level, so does that mean he's a chūnin?
 * Good point "a whole other level" is vague. Though Kakashi was aware of who the "Chunin" Demon Brothers were, and certainly who they worked for. The identity of the "Jonin" he expected was not just a guess. Being missing-nin, as well as the attempted assassin of the Mizukage they were in his Bingo Book. We can be sure he got a lot of attention in its pages.
 * There is no evidence Kakashi expected Zabuza to be the next to attack them. He expected a high-level opponent, but not Zabuza specifically.
 * I must disagree, "What incredibly dangerous chakra, It feels like I'll be killed if I make a single move. This could drive a person crazy... The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed... I can't take it... I'd almost rather die and get it over with..." This thought came after Zabuza faded into the mist, and began to contemplate out loud how he would kill them. The mind games are what put Sasuke on edge.
 * No it didn't, read that part again. Sasuke said that directly after Kakashi, about 4 pages after Zabuza had disappeared into the mist.
 * Naruto "This is a Jonin, a real ninja." Ch.13
 * Because Naruto was an expert on Zabuza's past? Naruto likely would have said jōnin-level if he knew Zabuza. Not in the least because missing-nin lose their rank, regardless of what it was.
 * Being one of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist it is unlikely he would be less than Jonin rank, ANBU or not.
 * And why couldn't he simply be an ANBU? Why would a specially selected shinobi who was trained outside the normal ranks necessarily have a normal rank? They do other missions, have other duties, other selection procedures. There is no reason for them to have a normal rank besides their ANBU rank.
 * --ShounenSuki 21:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Every village ninja holds a rank. ANBU is not a rank it is a special unit like the Konoha Military Police, Medical-nin, or Hunter-nin. Even if the rank is secret, the ninja will be given a rank and promotion based on skill.


 * "All right, what about Naruto?"
 * Naruto's rank is a special case. The village elders have done all they can to hold him back for fear of the Nine-Tails.


 * "He expected a high-level opponent, but not Zabuza specifically."
 * OK, good point.


 * "...about 4 pages after Zabuza had disappeared into the mist."
 * After disappearing he talks out loud about where he should strike. "Liver, Lungs...Which one should I go after?" - 4 frames later - Sasuke freaks. The anime rewords it a bit, and suggests its the stress of two Jonin poised to strike. I'd say at best were both right, and at worst it's pretty subjective.


 * Because Naruto was an expert on Zabuza's past?"
 * I'm not saying that at all. My point is Zabuza is called a Jonin 3 times(4 in the anime), appears in flashbacks wearing the flack vest of his village, and has the background to support having that rank before becoming a missing-nin. Shy of Zabuza stopping the fight and saying, "By the way. If anyone was wondering, YES I really am an official Jonin." it couldn't get more clear than that.

Arrancar79 14:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this conversation could use a few outside opinions. Otherwise we'll be talking in circles.


 * Naruto's rank has nothing to do with the village elders trying to hold him back. It's plain and simple. He always missed the chunin exam or had something ruin the exam so he could not pass.
 * ANBU is a occupation, not a rank. People can come and go from ANBU, but that never changes what rank they hold.
 * I'm calling in another little favor on this one, give it a bit of time. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Aug 13, 2008 @ 18:21 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm Tommy6 a helper of wikia. I'm here due to w:User_talk:Yukichi.
 * According to the article of Naruto's character in Japanese Wikipedia, ANBU (暗部) is a abbreviation of 暗殺戦術特殊部隊 (In English:Special Unit of Assassination Tactis), so it says ANBU is not a word of rank. And the databook you presented do not mention his rank.--Tommy6 00:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you were to check out the databook 1 entry for ANBU and the databook 2 entry for Uzuki Yuugao, you'll see that their ranks are ANBU. If you check out the fanbook, you'll see that the ANBU aren't just a special function normal ninja can hold. They're completely outside of the regular forces, which means they're also outside of the regular ranks.
 * ANBU members are specifically selected by the Hokage for whatever he wants to select them for. ANBU mebers don't even have to have graduated from the Academy.


 * That said, even if you wouldn't accept ANBU as a rank for Zabuza, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he ever held the rank of jōnin. --ShounenSuki 16:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)