Talk:Rasengan/Archive 2

why do not you put it
Because those are already listed in the jutsu infobox, there's no need nor point in listing them twice. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

2 jutsus
you should also put Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan and Super Great Ball Rasengan in the list --94.183.158.12 (talk) 17:27, December 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * I take it you are talking about the derived jutsu list. That list is only for techniques that are directly derived from the the featured technique. Both the Sage Art: Great Ball Rasengan and the Super Great Ball Rasengan are directly derived from the Great Ball Rasengan. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:46, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

oh your right i apologize

damage
can rasengan potentially kill someone or damage them severely? --75.3.231.166 (talk) 06:25, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Why do you think the jutsu is A-ranked? -- (_)LTR/-\ FRCE 02:27, January 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps because it was explicitly said so? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:44, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Rasengan variations
why does there need to be a page for all of the different variation of rasengan? they are all basically the same move and most of them only get used a few times and often only in one fight. 81.98.252.151 (talk) 19:55, April 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because it's there. ~SnapperTo 21:57, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Adding a derived
Shouldn't we add Sage Art: Super Great Ball Rasengan to the derived list? 69.198.244.26 (talk) 16:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The list only shows up until "grandchild" jutsu, so to speak. That one is further down at the genealogical tree. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:10, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

1 Handed Rasengan should be added to the Trivia.
I stopped watching Naruto Shippuden a long time ago around before Episode 40 was out. now i'm on: Naruto Shippuden Season 2 :  Ep. 100|23:14|

and I found Naruto use a 1 handed rasengan in some illusion and almost hit Kiba, but Kakashi held him back.

Three different versions of the same attack
These three should be mentioned in the article. We have Konohamaru's golf-ball sized version; Naruto's, Jiraiya's, and Kakashi's baseball sized version; and Minato's larger volleyball sized version.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:10, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Konohamru's isn't perfected, Naruto needs help from a clone, and Minato's is just a bit bigger, I don't think that means they are different versions.--Deva 27 (talk) 23:18, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing in the manga indicates that Konohamaru's isn't perfected, Deva 27. He combined for rotation and power and made a smaller version of the Rasengan. Naruto doesn't ALWAYS need the help of a clone *again, few times Naruto has done it with one hand*, he just uses it since its faster. And Minato's being bigger also means its more powerful. There are three versions of the technique that we've seen in the manga. Tiny (Konohmaru's), Standard (Naruto's, Kakashi's, and Jiraiya's), and Large (Minato's). --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:24, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The boy's a genin with well i'm going to say regular or average chakra for his age (maybe more being a Sarutobi and being able to perform 2 A ranked jutsu in succession and what not). You expected his rasengan to be the size of seasoned users? Two of which were noted to have an immense chakra reserves? There was nothing wrong/weird about his rasengan...--Cerez365 (talk) 01:02, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Naruto said he would show Konohamaru how to make it bigger. Again, the manga has shown different versions of the same attack, first Konohamaru's tiny one, the standard one, and then Minato's larger version. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:07, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * How to make a bigger one he was more than likey talking about Oodama Rasengan. The manga has shown different versions to the same attack yes but they all used the rasengan so it's the same attack. The size of the rasengan is proportionate to the amount of chakra you can put into it. There was no "difference" in any of the attacks except for that. --Cerez365 (talk) 01:25, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * The size of the Rasengan also shows how powerful the attack is. The larger the Rasengan, the more powerful it is.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:27, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except this isn't change like from Rasengan to Chōōdama Rasegan. The difference is barely noticeable. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

The first time Naruto had a successful rasengan may have been a different version. It was alot more powerful than the one Jiraya used to show Naruto. Can anyone explain? YellowPhoenix (talk) 02:39, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Obviously Jiraiya wasn't trying to kill the man, and naruto put his all into his.

Underwater Rasengan Formation
In the Land of Tea filler arc during part I, Naruto used shadow clones, each had a Rasengan, and put they're hands in a circle to make a whirlpool. I think that needs to be put as an Anime Only variation Your mine! Fireball Jutsu! (talk) 18:58, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was spinning the water with his chakra.--Deva 27 (talk) 19:00, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Colour
On the cover of Volume 52, I believe, Rasengan was shown to be white-ish in colour. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 21:58, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its colored yellow.--Deva 27 (talk) 22:06, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yellow Rasengan picture
Do we have any real pictures of the yellow Rasengan?? Fangzntalonz (talk) 02:23, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Example. ~SnapperTo 02:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

???
Why is Cho Kasseiken on the derived list? 98.200.252.109 (talk) 16:17, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * That jutsu is stuck in the wiki's memory, and regrettably appears in a couple of places that it should not. ~SnapperTo 16:24, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, okay. 98.200.252.109 (talk) 16:38, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Blue Impact???!
Sorry, but I played Ultimate Ninja 3, and there's no way that Naruto formed a Rasengan in his hand while punching the enemy!!! It's just chakra gathered in this hand, not in a spiral sphere. And besides, Naruto needs a CLONE!! And the Green BEast Naruto only uses taijutsu!! Why is such an attack put in the derived jutsu?41.17.216.229 (talk) 10:03, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

The video games like to stretch it a bit. Just look at the ougis(specials/ultimates) for Un1-Un5.Umishiru (talk) 16:47, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Why?
Why is every single stupid video game variant in the derived list? Really? Most of them don't even make sense. 98.200.125.177 (talk) 15:54, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thus why its only possible in video games.Umishiru (talk) 16:46, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

I know that. My question was(and is), "Why are they all there?" 98.200.125.177 (talk) 13:21, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Parent Jutsu?
How is the Menacing Ball it's parent jutsu? It says that the Rasengan was based on the Menacing Ball (and in my perspective) like Iron Sand is based on the One-Tailed Shukaku's automatic sand defense, so wouldn't you have to change that article to reflect that as well? Questionaredude (talk) 00:36, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:05, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * there is a subtle difference, though. The Rasengan is a specific technique based off another specific technique. Iron Sand is a whole collection of techniques based off the general abilities of a jinchūriki. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:08, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I still don't think it's enough to call it the Rasengan's parent jutsu. Definitely something for the related jutsu field though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're probably right, especially considering we don't know the exact story behind it. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:21, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

One-handed Rasengan?
At what point in, Naruto Shippūden Movie 3: Inheritors of the Will of Fire, does Naruto create a Rasengan without the aid of his clones?
 * I think it's when he fights Gaara, though he might have done that when he fights Hiruko as well. It's not exactly one-handed, he uses both hands, but he definitely doesn't use a shadow clone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:50, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I mis-worded that a bit.Questionaredude (talk) 03:19, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia about the rasengan's second color
I think that should be noted in the trivia section that, according to the Kishimoto's comments in the second artbook, he has not yet officially decided the color of the rasengan and this is the reason beacuse in many colored illustrations by Kishimoto, the rasengan (and the rasenshuriken) don't presents a color blue but a yellow/orange (and this particular is more evident now that it is also visible on the cover of volume 52).

It's only my supposition but probably this indecision/difference arises from the fact that, in the version of the manga, Naruto tell Jiraya that he feel the color of his chakra to be yellow, when instead the anime version has changed the dialogue replacing the word yellow with blue (and maybe influencing the color of the rasengan if in Kishimoto's point of view, he wanted that its color was equal to that of Naruto's chakra).--JK88 (talk) 12:09, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Rasengan Inspiration
I have thought of something. How could Minato create Rasengan by observing the tailed beast ball when he only saw it once, at a day of his death. Even if he invented it at the day when he saw the TBB (Which is impossible since he mastered it in 3 years) there's no way he could tell Jiraya about it. Could it be that Minato fought the 9 tails before the incident when fighting Madara? --&lt;&lt;-Rage-&gt;&gt; (talk) 20:28, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who said he didn't see Kushina use it before? She had great control over the fox. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 20:30, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Who said he didn't see any of the other eight tailed beasts use a Tailed Beast Ball? —ShounenSuki (talk 20:33, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * She had great control, but I don't believe that a person like she would ever fully transform into fox. We also know that Nine tails isn't the guy who would let you transform and use such a jutsu. What I believe is that the Rasengan isn't similar to TBB because Minato observed it, it could be that it is just a coincidence. --&lt;&lt;-Rage-&gt;&gt; (talk) 20:35, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, by the time of Minato, every tailed beast was sealed as far as I know. --&lt;&lt;-Rage-&gt;&gt; (talk) 20:36, December 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sealed where? By Akatsuki? That wasn't until several years later. Into a jinchuriki? All the more reason why he'd see it in action; ninja wars and whatnot. ~SnapperTo 20:38, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Were there any Jinjurickis that could totally control their beasts at the time? Sure, Killer Bee could be one, but I highly doubt. --&lt;&lt;-Rage-&gt;&gt; (talk) 20:40, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Killer B, Yagura, possibly Yugito or her predecessor. You don't have to have complete control over your tailed beast to be able to transform into it and used the Tailed Beast Ball. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:45, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Nine-tails Influence
Should we mention that due to Naruto Sealing off the nine-tails chakra into a separate part of his body, he currently cannot access any of his tailed forms, thus like Flapping Chidori, Demon Fox Rasengan is presumed unusable? Questionaredude (talk) 21:16, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really, the chakra is still in Naruto, and he has better access to it than he had before. We saw him trying to transform into the Nine-Tails, the reason he can't isn't related to the chakra, but with the cooperation with the Nine-Tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:34, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * So what about saying, "Due to the Nine-tails ceasing to cooperate with Naruto, the Demon Fox Rasengan is presumed unusable"?Questionaredude (talk) 21:41, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * That kind of statement is unnecessary. To add that would be to add that Kakuzu can't use elemental jutsu he doesn't have the hearts for anymore, that Sasori can't use the abilities of puppets he doesn't have anymore, that A cannot play pattycake with hands he doesn't have anymore. The wiki covers any point in the series, not just the most recent material. ~SnapperTo 02:27, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Literal English
"Spiraling Sphere" or "Spiralling Sphere"?--LeafShinobi (talk) 19:18, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Spiralling, of course. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:25, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Rasengan rotation directions
It has been noted that rasengan is more efective if it is spined in one direction but as it seems it is spined in multi directions.Why is this? --Madman361 (talk) 22:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Movie Only?
Should there be a "(Movie Only)" listing under the derived jutsus like Seven-Colored Rasengan or Tornado Rasengan?
 * And on a side note: Would putting a "(Game Only)" listing be overbearing? Questionaredude (talk) 23:51, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Movie and game jutsu children aren't suppose to display on an anime/manga jutsu, when those movie/game pages are purged it will look like it should. S im A nt 23:58, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Picture
Just throwing this out there... thats an image from part II of a jutsu from part I. - S im A nt 01:53, May 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bump. S im A nt 23:33, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * You want it changed?  ~ Fmakck©  (Images 23:48, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the idea.--Cerez365™☺ 23:44, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

black "positive" and white "negative"
Its from the article. Is this a mistake?--78.172.100.205 (talk) 21:42, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope, that's what the manga said. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:45, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

Rasengan Shadow
Okay, I know this isn't really important, but like look at the shadow of the Rasengan (the one on the main Rasengan page with it in Naruto's hand)..it's in the shape of a...well, judge for yourself. ~KuroRai~ 00:57, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

This page is here is for suggestions not 6th grade humor, ok? Cda081799 (talk) 06:26, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Planetary Rasengan
Is named twice in the derived jutsu list.Umishiru (talk) 03:28, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Rasengan?
Is this a plothole? If Naruto's shadow clones form the rasengan and the original merely provides chakra, and shadow clones transfer what they know to the original, shouldn't naruto have already learned how to do rasengan by himself?--GundamFun711 (talk) 23:35, December 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * No. He uses shadow clones or chakra arms to form a shell for the Rasengan and compress it.--Deva 27 23:37, December 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * And all the experience he earns from it is essentially making the Rasegan with more than one set of hands, which doesn't help him get better at making it with one hand. If he did the Multiple Shadow Clone training with each clone trying to make the Rasengan with one hand, then it might work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think he can make a Rasengan with his own 2 hands and outside of his power modes. But this way it's faster.--Elveonora (talk) 23:48, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

No. If he had, that would have been something Kishi would have given a bit of focus on. Anyway, to answer the question, no it isn't a plot hole. All that the clones do is form the Rasengan the way that Naruto does it, thus the experience the provide is how to perform that method better. Skitts (talk) 23:51, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Naruto simply doesn't have to aptitude to create the Rasengan with one hand, that much has been stated. Else I don't think he'd have taught Konohamaru how to do it with a clone.--Cerez365™ 23:53, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

That's stupid plothole then ... he has enough chakra control to be the only human able to balance yin/yang/natural chakras thus first to master Sage Mode. He is the one that completed Rasengan. He can do and mantain combination transformation. Looks like he can do some sealing techniques as well. I just cant see how the main and overpowered character can't do a Rasengan in one hand or at least to perform it with 2 hands without shadow clones or power modes.

Are you sure he was never shown using Rasengan without help of shadow clones and power modes ?--Elveonora (talk) 00:03, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. With the exception of the futile attempts during his initial stages (vs Tsunade) there's no cannon media with him doing that.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:09, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I see, thanks. Then I will have to live with that he is weak T_T --Elveonora (talk) 00:13, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

First, we still have no confirmation that Yin and Yang actually refer to physical and mental energy rations. Second, what Naruto does to create Sage chakra is a change in the chakra's composition, he's not manipulating the chakra like one would in, say, medical ninjutsu. And just because Naruto is the only known true Sage, that doesn't mean he's the only one. Fukasaku says that the marks of true Sages are the eyes, how would he know that if no human had ever mastered Sage Mode before? Toads already have those eyes. There could have been others before him, who have died already. What Naruto did to Rasengan was to put another aspect of changing the nature of the chakra, that still doesn't have to do with what is known as chakra control. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:25, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

No offence but hope you are not being serious.Not eyes, the pigment around eyes.--Elveonora (talk) 00:43, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I think the person's eyes themselves are also an indication. Also it was never said Naruto was the only Sage- Fukasaku said he bore the mark of a "true" Sage and said "compared to Jiraiya..." there were more than likely others that have walked the Path of a Sage (in this sense). I actually respect the fact that Naruto still cannot produce a Rasengan with one hand. It gives me a sense of familiarity- knowing where he's coming from and also remembering that he has no skill with stuff like that. Not because he's powerful is it going to mean that he's somehow improved his finesse with intricate skills like those.--Cerez365™ 00:54, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Toads also have some pigmentation around the eyes, the marks around Shima and Fukasaku's eyes don't change when they're in Sage Mode, so to know that those are marks of a true Sage, other humans must have mastered Sage Mode in the past as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:03, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well if the eyes itself are an indication, then Gamakichi is s Sage as well. I remember Fukasaku stating the pigment around eyes are mark of a true sage. And you are right Omni, looks that way.

About yin/yang stuff, I think there's nothing more to add. Thinking that yin/yang and physical and mental/spiritual energies are 2 different things is silly since it was always referred to them as so. The OP's point being is that Naruto used Rasengan dozens of times and that he still creates more and more powerful and complex versions. The experience from Shadow Clones helped him to learn how to change chakra into wind nature. After creating that many shadow clones in the series, he should be able to perform Rasengan already without their aid and outside of power-up. So saying he can't is silly. It was said his usage of Rasengan has surpassed the previous users, so thinking he can't do it like Jiraiya is weird. Where was it stated that Sage Mode or Kyubi Mode helps him to make Rasengan with less arms ? I think we have seen Naruto using normal Rasengan in Sage Mode without Shadow Clones, attributing it to him being in Sage Mode is stupid since it should be even more difficult for him with even more chakra control required.

I think him using shadow clones to create Rasengan is not due to him being unable to himself, but because its his style after that many years. More arms = faster.--Elveonora (talk) 01:26, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

This is becoming a forum, the original question was answered so lets move on.--Deva 27 01:30, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sage Art: Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan
Why' isn't Sage Art: Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan in the infobox? Ultimatex (talk) 23:53, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because a technique infobox only shows up to "grandparent techniques". That one is derived from a "grandparent technique", so it doesn't show up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:59, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Tornado Rasengan
Can the Tornado Rasengan added to the infobox.Ultimatex (talk) 12:30, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. Movie and game techniques do not show up as derived techniques in infoboxes of anime and manga technques and characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:30, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

Name
Just curious, this has probably been brought up previously, but why is this page, along with Chidori, referred to by it's romanized name, and not the literal translation of the Kanji? I sort of get it for the Mangekyo jutsus (E.g. Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi) due to the Shinto references, but why are both Rasengan and Chidori referred to as such? Why should the pages not be called "Spiralling Sphere" and "One Thousand Birds"? Again, I'm sure this has been brought up at a previous point in time. --Chitalian8 02:19, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Probably due to those names being used in the english versions of the anime and manga so they are more recognisable than the literal translation. TricksterKing (talk) 03:00, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Because they are most well known by just their Japanese names. Almost all translations never use their translated names.--Deva 27 03:02, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^^ What he said. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 03:10, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

From a familiarity standpoint, I understand: People know what the Rasengan is more than they know what the Spiralling Sphere is. However, why should we not keep consistency with the rest of the Jutsu articles? I'm just trying to be consistent. Chitalian8 14:08, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

They are simply just the exception to that rule. All the translations use the romanisation instead of the literal translation and they are essentially the signature techniques of the two foremost characters in the series. The bigger problem came along in trying to translate their derivative abilities. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:17, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

One handed rasengan revisited
In the movie Blood Prison Naruto does the rasengan one handed if i'm not mistaken --Mongrel Shadow (talk) 00:18, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * In that same movie, Naruto knew B, yet the Invasion of Pain apparently never happened and they aren't fighting a war. He was also apparently going to die with the greatest medical ninja in the world and her two pupils one foot away from him. He also managed to use the Hiding with Camouflage Technique without the cursed seal burning and have a shuriken and wire string even though they searched him. The movie has no bearing on the storyline whatsoever.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 00:35, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi's Chidori
It says "Kakashi Hatake tried to add his lightning element to his Rasengan, but was unable to and explains that he created the Chidori and Lightning Cutter instead," maybe this is just my opinion, but didn't Kakashi just copy the Rasengan with Sharingan? If he did, that would mean he created Chiordi before he learnt the Rasengan which I think is what happened even if he didn't copy it.50.79.85.107 (talk) 14:23, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kakashi developed chidori before getting Sharingan --Salil Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 14:31, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Minato taught Kakashi the Rasengan as far as I remember, but couldn't add a Chakra Nature so developed the Chidori. This was all before he got the Sharingan though. --Speysider (Talk Page) 14:39, May 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was never really said how exactly Kakashi learnt the Rasengan but he was unable to finish he sensei's work and couldn't add his nature manipulation(s) to the Rasengan successfully.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:13, May 2, 2012 (UTC)

Misspellings
"Spiraling" does not have two "l's" in it, nor does stabilize have an extra "s." --Belial Edge (talk) 17:26, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * This wiki uses British English, so yes they do.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:32, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh...nevermind. Sorry about that. --Belial Edge (talk) 07:28, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Super Ultimate Rasengan
How come you don't have "Super Ultimate Rasengan" listed in the "Derived Jutsu" section? --Dethklok91 (talk) 05:56, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Movie and video game techniques don't appear in those lists, unless the parent technique itself appears only in movie or game. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:21, November 3, 2012 (UTC)