Talk:Nagato

Earth Style Release:earth style wall…
…and nagato page still need editing

Earth Style Release was used by Kakashi on Nagato.

So the first thing that needs to be done is on nagato's page, completely erase the jutsu.

Then, on the earth style release page, delete him from the users list.

I am still learning how to do this but..

This technique was used by kakashi on nagato, none of nagato's 6th paths (esp one he was battling) have the ability to use this technique, if i need to back this up with manga chapters i will soon/.
 * It was used in a flashback in episode 131.--Deva 27 (talk) 04:25, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Nagato never used the technique in a flashback episode, or in the manga

KAKASHI used it in the manga, and never in a flashback so it needs to be taken out of nagato's page because it was used by kakashi. and nagato needs to be taken out of the user of the jutsu's page

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/08/
 * Shippuden episode 131 when Jiraiya was thinking over how Nagato could use all the elements.--Deva 27 (talk) 05:00, July 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can buy that it's Earth Style Wall. I'm having more difficulty believing the other jutsu are Dragon Fire Technique and Violent Water Wave. ~SnapperTo 05:14, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

when did he use violent waterwave??


 * he used violent water wave in the flashback chapter in the manga. I still got get that he used earth style wall ever. even in the anime. that was KAKASHI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Infamous Ryan


 * When are you going to learn we're not talking about his fight with Kakashi? In the anime, when Jiraiya remembers that Nagato could use all elements, Nagato, as a child, is shown using four different elemental jutsu against a black background, the one he wasn't shown using during this sequence was Lightning Release. That's when he used it. I only wish I could remember in which episode exactly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:34, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * but is that nt a little bit taken to easy to say that was violant waterwave, because there hant been sais that name of the jutsu, it was just a water technique, or did say someone in the anime this was violent waterwave?Ernie1992 (talk) 12:25, July 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you tell us one more time that Kakashi used the jutsu, I'm going to hit you with something. ~SnapperTo 22:04, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well then both Kakashi and Nagato used the Jutsu.. I dont keep up with the anime as much. But i know for a -fact- as stated http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/08/ kakashi is the one using the earth style wall(in the manga) I have yet to see the "flashbacks" of the anime where Jiraiya is watching Nagato perform these techniques.. ~ Infamous ps. im going to watch episode 131 as you stated and see if what youre saying is correct. Im only here to help.. not argue or start trouble ^_^

To Ernie : http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090924190554/naruto/images/thumb/e/e0/Violent_Water_Wave.PNG/300px-Violent_Water_Wave.PNG <- Violent Water Wave was used by Yahiko, not Nagato. Nagato used a water release, i think. hm. http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Yahiko

InfamousRyan (talk) 20:38, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

one more thing. i watched episode 131 like you told me to. and it contains nothing of a flashback of Nagato using the earth-style wall jutsu.

This jutsu is strictly Kakashi's.http://www.crunchyroll.com/media-534456/naruto-shippuden-131/ InfamousRyan (talk) 20:43, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Then you didn't watch properly. In that same link, at crunchyroll, the scene begins at 13:09, Nagato first uses a Fire Release, then Earth Style Wall (exactly the same way Hiruzen used it), and then a Water Release. Nagato used it. Fact. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:26, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

you are correct. but it does not state exactly what jutsu he is using it only states that he could use all elements of ninjutsu with a demonstration ps Hiruzen used "Mud Style" wall. barfed out of his mouth, looked exactly like mud that grew to a wall. The technique Nagato used as of this time, the Earth one we saw, has no name although we could simply call it earth release: style wall It could be something completely different. InfamousRyan (talk) 12:23, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

It has the exact same effect of Hiruzen's technique, and Hiruzen named it. The most logical explanation is that it's the same technique, ergo it's listed as that technique, plain and simple. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:44, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

not to forget, nagato never uses violent waterwaveErnie1992 (talk) 22:00, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Same flashback. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:12, July 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * i watch this and this is never violent waterwave, it looks more like kisames Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave

generelly you cant specify the names of the jutsus; just because they look like jutsus in the manga or anime are they far from them away, sorry but thats how it is, no name of the jutsu in the anime, no jutsu name on this site, its my opinionErnie1992 (talk) 22:35, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just looks like he is a fountain.. not really any pressure behind it like in the "violent" water wave. The water then moves up like a wave.S im A nt 22:46, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

^hey the topic isnt over yet^^Ernie1992 (talk) 19:21, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Flight
for the record. his power is to push things away and pull things away. he could easily use it to float up for a lil bit of time >.> just saying. does ANYONE find it noteworthy to mention in his abilities that this guy is capable of FLIGHT??--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness"'' (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 08:24, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * When did he fly? --ShounenSuki (talk 08:33, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * floating if you wanna call it. Right before he shinra tensei'd the heck outta Konoha. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/429/06-07/ --暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness"'' (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 08:44, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would call that an amazingly high jump. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:53, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ....u call that a jump? he stayed afloat for a few pages and even talked. He should have been falling to the ground by then. That was no jump.--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness"'' (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 08:57, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Dramatic license, the effect of showing multiple things happening simultaneously, and the fact that if you jump high enough, you do actually stop for a moment at the highest point, like a pendulum does when it swings. --ShounenSuki (talk 09:05, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * fine TT.TT --暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness"'' (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 09:12, July 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Darknesslover might actually have a point. In the anime, the Deva Path was shown rising and all, but in no way that was a jump. He rose steadily and slowly. And it certainly wasn't a dramatic effect, because he was show rising while other people moved regularly, in the same frame. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:30, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does not happen in the manga, and even then he could have just been slowing down as he reached his peak. I find it more interesting that he survived the fall. And his new Animal Path when he first invaded. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:17, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like I said, it's not like he went up and slowed down before he peaked, he went up all the way practically with the same speed, which was slow. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:19, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Manga he seemed to go pretty fast. Cloak seems to indicate starting to go down. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:26, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Manga can portray flow and speed like animation does. Also, how many times have I asked you not to use double brackets when doing that? It's unneeded, and it looks ugly when rendered. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:02, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, force of habit. But what kind of speed are you referring to? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:51, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Does anyone think that he could have just manipulated gravity to stay in the air a bit longer? I mean, it is his trademark ability.--Bathman (talk) 05:20, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Range though? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 17:15, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Rinnegan
Is Nagato's eyes always Rinnegan or are can he make them normal too? Desai1234 (talk) 06:29, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unknown, I think he was always shown to have it on after the first awakening so he at least has the option of not turning it off ever. ZeroSD (talk) 11:21, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that he kept his eyes covered when young to hide his eyes (discrimation, fear, etc. like in Land of Mists). So I would say he was born with them. Moreover, even when dying they were like that, but with Uchiha when chakra gets to low the Sharingan goes out. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 20:33, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

The 5 Second Gap
We know that there is a 5 second gap between Nagato's abilities, but the info about it isn't enough, we all have many questions about it.

Can anyone give full information about this, it's really confusing.

There is not a 5 second gap between Nagato abilities,there is in fact a 5 seconds gap in his jutsu when he use deva path ,but as we see close the path is to the original ,more chakre can recive,so we can suspect that it can take little time to recover if it is closer,and the original is not very tired.But in fat the only time when we saw Pein using thish tehnique is when he fight with hanzo and yahiko died.

who said its 5 secs in real life its 30 fing secs :O--110.32.63.135 (talk) 06:52, May 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * The anime ≠ real life. Remember Namek? Until DBZ, I had no idea that five minutes was equivalent to three hours. ~SnapperTo 07:10, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia?
Can it be noted, perhaps in the Trivia section, that both Sasuke and Nagato awakened their dojutsu right after their parent's deaths?Sparxs77 (talk) 22:34, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The way that he had his eyes covered with his hair makes me think that he had the eyes already (unusual so hide them for a list of reasons ranging from self-preservation to vanity). He did not use his powers offensively until his parents died, but he may have already had access to the seeing chakra function of them. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:56, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * His eyes only remained active after he protected Yahiko, killing the Iwagakure chūnin. Before that, it was only a short activation. Nagato never had his eyes hidden when the Rinnegan was active, making it rather obvious that when his hair is in front of it, it's not active. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:45, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Nagato's Dog Summon
I don't know if anyone recalls, but Nagato used to have a dog named Chibi. It's already known that Nagato used Yahiko as his Deva Path, but is it possible that Nagato did something similar with his dead dog?

I mean, that dog summon of his was unnaturally powerful, it seemed as if Nagato put a lot of effort into making sure it couldn't be killed.

Seeing as he had a sentimental attachment to the Deva Path because it was Yahiko, and thus made it his most powerful of the Six Paths, is it possible Chibi received the same treatment in the case of his dog summon?

Nagato handicap
We never saw nagato fighting at his full power in person ,only a child who had a conflict with hanzo,and after that we saw him in that machine and using the 6 paths. Is it possible that the reason for using the 6 paths is that when he fought hanzo he got his legs damaged by hanzo tehnique and then he used gedo mazo that let him with chakra chakra rods embedded in him forever,and that made him unable to use them in a big proportion,so he found out,or he already knew to use dead bodyes as tools to make his dreams come true.Remember that when kabuto bring him back he no longer has those chakra rods embedded in him and now we can see him fighting at his full power.

I dont think so. He is handicap for using the sealing jutsu on the demons. I remember konan saying that jutsu similar to Shinra Tensei cut his life force. Dj q-pid (talk) 23:45, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Even though he was resurrected without the chakra rods, he wont be able to fight at full power. As we saw he had to be carried when they all set off into their divisions Kabuto sent them towards. So if he can't walk, he wont be fighting full power. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 08:37, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Jutsu Editing
Under the infobox, shouldn't Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path have it's (Manga Only) tag removed, since it has been shown in the anime? Plus, how CAN you edit that?Questionaredude (talk) 02:21, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * It will update automatically.--Deva 27 (talk) 02:23, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

Sannin
I think its not right to say they run into the Sannin because they didn't meet them by accident. It should say they persue the Sannin so they would teach them ninjutsu.Giotis (talk) 19:08, August 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's only in the anime. ~SnapperTo 00:36, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well, in that respect, they still wanted to find ninja to teach them ninjutsu in the manga, didn't they? They just didn't have a specific target, just someone strong.--Hawkeye2701 (talk) 12:50, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Uzumaki Clan???
The chapter is out and Madara have revealed that he was part of the Uzumaki Clan. Do we only add the clan to the infobox or could we possibly also change his name. Or do we do nothing like we did with Tsunade? --Gojita (talk) 19:36, September 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita


 * Although it did gave me a WTF reaction when i saw it, i think it's a bit to vague and skeptical. Nytemyre (talk) 19:38, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * ...according to Madara in the chapter that was just released, is Uzumaki Nagato (Nagato Uzumaki for you English loving peoples). Edit/redirect the page accordingly, imo. Jonnieboi05 (talk) 19:39, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nagato may be a descendant of the clan, but we don't not know what his full name is.--Deva 27 (talk) 19:44, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Thought as much. So should we just add the clan to the infobox, or is that also to speculative? --Gojita (talk) 19:49, September 15, 2010 (UTC)Gojita


 * I think adding the clan to the infobox would be fine, but I agree with Deva27 in that we shouldn't make his title page name Uzumaki Nagato. Because think of Tsunade, we aren't sure that her surname is Senju, but we know she's a descendant of the Senju Clan. Abells92 (talk) 20:19, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

He was mentioned as an actual member of the Uzumaki clan. Naruto is more or less simply a descendant, but still considered "Naruto Uzumaki". Yes, I know it was done to hide his relation to Minato, but still. From what I can see, all members of a clan (exceptions being Root members and Tsunade) have the last name of their clan. So, I think the page should be moved to "Nagato Uzumaki".--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 20:22, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Abells92. Excuse my overediting. I'm new here and not to use on talking on forums. I like pie. FullMetalXY (talk) 20:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

There is no indication he was ever called "Uzumaki Nagato", for all we know, the only name he ever got was Nagato, which is how the page should remain. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:42, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little curious how he and Naruto are related. Like is he Naruto's uncle (Kushina's brother maybe) or a cousin or something. Just conjecture, nothing to add to the main page. CorwinDruzil (talk) 05:48, September 16, 2010 (UTC)CorwinDruzil

So since Nagato was a descensent of the clan, should it be too crazy to assume that there might be other uzumakis out there besides Naruto and Nagato. And assuming if Nagato knew he was a descendent of the uzumaki clan, shouldn't he have brought up to Naruto that they were relatives? And the third path, I don't get where Madara is going with this. Could it be assumed that all 6 paths will be from prominent clans? This is getting quite interesting!


 * Since the Uzumaki Clan are related to the Senjus, at least according Kushina, I would say the six paths are clans descending from the sons of the Sage of The Six Paths. Senju, Uchiha and Uzumaki may be three of the six paths. 201.51.71.164 (talk) 17:24, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

should it be noted that nagatos mother is part of/descendant the uzumaki clan? (as comapred to teh father) she has the same hair colour, which is safe to say is a "genetic link" to the clan? SharinganMike (talk) 19:10, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was not stated that every member of the clan had red hair. Both of his parents could be members.--Deva 27 (talk) 19:13, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

i know not every member has it but his mother does have the red hair. which is the same as nagato, of which madara stated his iconic to teh clan SharinganMike (talk) 19:35, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and added Uzuamki in some places where most obvious, but there are many places i didn't know how to edit, or if i could i couldn't do it correctly. I also added trivia regarding it. If somone more knowledgable than me in wikipedia-editing can add Uzuamki where needed, that would be awsome. (Black Lister (talk) 14:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC))

He's already mentioned as a member of that clan through the article and in the infobox. His name, however, is not to be changed, because Nagato himself has never been known, nor has went by the name "Uzumaki Nagato". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:19, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Kushina did said the Uzumaki Clan are scaatered because their village was deystroyed. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:20, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

My opinion on the matter of Nagato and the Uzumaki clan is that Nagato didn't know about his ancestry. The proof can be seen in that Nagato didn't mention this in his battle with Naruto, the subject would of been a point of discussion if the information was known to either party. The reason Nagato wouldn't know his own ancestry would be that his Uzumaki side of the family probably used an alias to avoid detection because they (Uzumaki/Uzushiogakure) were feared for their Fūinjutsu which was the reason said village was destroyed which probably made them hide in the first place. This reason would make the idea of Nagato having a different name more likely. Also, I have a hard time using Madara as a source in general because he could be lying, of course when the statement of Nagato being a descendant of the Uzumaki clan was stated he was alone which makes lying pointless. I agree with the people that Nagato should only be listed as a Uzumaki descendant in the info bar since the last name is likely a fake or different family name, like a Naruto but in reverse. 76.199.161.149 (talk) 04:57, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Andrew--Alastar 89 (talk) 07:39, May 23, 2011 (UTC)

Madara was alone, talking to a dead body. He had no reason to lie. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:03, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Path
From Special:ProblemReports/37080:

Nagato is "Thrid Sage of the Six Path", not "Thrid of the Six Path"

Proof http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/17

--

In case it isn't obvious: mangastream added "sage" to their translation. Why? ~SnapperTo 17:38, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

No idea. I wish raws are released soon so ShounenSuki can go through it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:39, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Original, accurate version, proof of being 3rd of 6 Paths (no mention of Sage): http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-16/naruto/chapter-510.html --Capt Obvious (talk) 05:48, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for staying true to your screen name while at the same time being completely unhelpful. ~SnapperTo 08:38, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

So, ShounenSuki has cleared this up:. Nagato is not the third sage. However, inserting "sage" seems to clarify what Madara means, as Nagato is not the third of the Six Paths either. "Of the" suggests there are a fourth, fifth, and sixth too. Something's gotta give. ~SnapperTo 19:29, September 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly what I was pointing out, but apparently only YOU have the right to say it. Proof that you're a hypocrite and a waste of space. Capt Obvious (talk) 20:49, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * And thank YOU for being a true to your name by snapping needlessly and being useless at the same time. I was merely pointing to the original Mangastream translation, which was more accurate, and some may have missed it. You're too stupid to understand that, I get it. Capt Obvious (talk) 20:49, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Discontinuity
When Jirayia saw Nagato for the first time in years, Nagato told him that he only had a vague, unimportant recollection of Yahiko. Later, it was shown consistently that Nagato and Konan had a very close relationship with Yahiko, even after his death. Brainwasher5 (talk) 12:52, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * or the far more likely route that he was simply lying to Jirayia? 86.24.249.15 (talk) 16:10, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

New nickname: "Third Rikudou"
Shouldn't we add, among the nicknames of Nagato, also "Third Rikudou" (or "Third sage of six paths")?--JK88 (talk) 16:18, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Nagato's voice actor?
I just noticed Vic Mignogna was listed as Nagato's voice actor and wanted to see a source to confirm this. I understand the game has been released in several countries in English but would like to confirm from somebody here that the game uses him as the voice of Nagato before its posted. Otherwise, it could be misleading people like when Richard Epcar was listed as the voice of Madara.

Genjutsu
When Nagato paralyzes Naruto with his Chakra Disruption Blades, he use a Rinnegan's genjutsu to suppress the Naruto's desire to fight?--Leodix - My Talk - Contributions 19:17, November 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those blades are used simply to disrupt the chakra flow of the opponent. When that happens, they can't mold chakra properly, impairing their fighting ability. Tsunade did the same to Jiraiya in Part I when she poisoned him. This is the same thing, through a different method. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:21, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Nagato has only one Rinnegan eye
i think nagato has only one Rinnegan eye because u always see its left eye not once its right and Madara Uchiha who took its eye has only de left eye Rinnegan --Marche (talk) 17:27, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

We've seen him with two Rinnegan eyes, check the first time he activated it, just after his parents were killed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:37, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

I know its boring but I found one mistake kishimoto sempai made about nagato.Kabuto told Madara that for impure world he needed DNA and that means he need to dig peoples graves and took it from their corpses. But if nobody knew where nagato body was buried until madara forced konan how he made nagato resurect from dead.I mean when kabuto aproached to madara and they allmost fighted nobody even madara knew about where nagato was buried.We only saw that in chapter where konan and madara fought.So how did kabuto took DNA from nagato, if konan keept his body safe.Kabuto said that he can't bring jiraiya back because his body is on botom of sea, and nagato's grave is buried on botom of sea.Maybe he took some DNA from those pearcings in his back(I don't know is it peercing or some kind of chackra transmiter)YamatoTakeru (talk) 12:37, January 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Kabuto could have obtained the chakra from somewhere else. The machine Nagato used to move around, the places he stayed in Amegakure... You'd be amazed how easy it is to find DNA of people. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:58, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I said I tought he used DNA from his peercing from his back wich was on machine.But if he could get Nagato's DNA easy than he could get Jiraya's also easy.But if he bring Jiraiya back and that is a big if than is there a problem of toad summoning because naruto also can summon toads but who will control them.I think Kishimoto always kill all the top strong ninja like jiraya hirunzen asuma chiyo.Only reason he didn't let kakashi tsunade shizune choza hinata and all another interesting people killed is because he can not produce material for work or it is hard for audience to acept new main caracter(I really think they are interesting not making irony or something like that) so from my point of view kishimoto is busy but doesn't have material or something like that.I have another opinions too.YamatoTakeru (talk) 21:35, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Dark pictures
Does anyone mind me lightening up pictures of nagato?--RexGodwin (talk) 19:36, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope I've always said they were a bit too dark. As long as they look decent it should be fine--Cerez365 (talk) 19:46, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Most Nagato images look dark because he's mostly shown indoors. Plus, I've seen some of your revisions, you brightened them too much. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:14, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Debut
RexGodwin's edit made me wonder, should we keep Nagato's debut as when he saw him as a child, in flashbacks, or his in-the-flesh first appearance in the Invasion of Pain arc? What's our standing in this? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

the real Nagato debuted when we saw his body when Deva used Shinra Tensei. and Nagato only appeared in NUN2 in a cutscene. id say Nagato is different rnough from "Pain" to warrant his own sepeate debut.--RexGodwin (talk) 20:45, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

although young Nagato debuted earlier, i dont think we count flashbacks of characters who actually appear in the series later do we?

Do we even have another character in this situation? We do use the first flashback appearance to the debut of a character when said character was only mentioned before. Shisui was mentioned way back in Part I, but only when Ao mentions him in the Kage Summit we see how he actually looked like. I'm not sure how Yagura counts, because he was both mentioned and seen like Shisui, but we added his first appearance as a flashback in which he was controlled by Madara. We didn't change his debut to when he appeared as a resurrected member of Kabuto's army. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:55, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

but we were also unsure as of if pain was really Nagato until we saw his body. (I had actually thought Yahiko killed Nagato and stole his eyes... stupid theory i know..) so its not exactly an easy situation. :P--RexGodwin (talk) 21:00, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

so lets narrow this down:
 * "Pain"/Deva first debuted at the end of part I in ch.238 the first Akatsuki meeting
 * His true appearance was in chapter 363 when Madara revealed himself in Ame
 * Yahiko and kid Nagato was first debuted in ch. 373 in a flashback
 * Real emaciated Nagato debuted in ch.438 when Deva moved closer to Nagato to use SHinra Tensei

is that about right? :P--RexGodwin (talk) 21:05, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Seems about right, though you still have to add the chapter Deva Path actually appeared with Madara in Amegakure. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:12, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * We really need a good guideline to what débuts we use... —ShounenSuki (talk 21:28, December 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think Nagato will be the only character to give us this much trouble. Everything works out perfectly for most other characters, and for the ones that don't, the situation is dealt with quickly enough. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, December 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if we're going on a case-by-case basis, I'd say we should use the first time Nagato was shown, in chapter 372 if my memory is not failing me. It was from that point on that Nagato started playing an important role in the manga. —ShounenSuki (talk 21:42, December 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Technically, Nagato appeared the first time Pain did. Just because we didn't see his body doesn't mean he wasn't introduced. The first time the Akatsuki leader was shown is really when Nagato was introduced, if he was shown in his real body or not.
 * The problem however, is that people like to ignore this for whatever reason seems fit to them and we have issues like this.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 04:29, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

When you have a character with multiple bodies and a shared consciousness, it's bound to cause trouble. I checked the debuts, and I think chapter 372 seems to be the most proper one. I think that's the debut we had in the infobox before RexGodwin edited it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:47, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Movie
im pretty sure his appearance in the movie will be a flashback, nothing more. he was already shown with WHite hair and using Gedo Rinne Tensei, so i seriously doubt he apepar physically in this movie.--98.117.165.233 (talk) 06:53, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * We've considered less about appearing in movies. In Inheritors of the Will of Fire, we considered Matsuri as a debuting character because an image of her appears when Gaara thinks of the people of Sunagakure from two seconds. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:00, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

Choice of Killing Nagato?
I have a question about the article statement: "He decided not to kill Nagato, as that would only perpetuate the cycle of revenge." Does anyone else know if it is confirmed for a fact that Naruto *really* had the opportunity to *certainly* kill Nagato? I always assumed that if Nagato had enough chakra/stamina remaining to resurrect all of Konoha that it was not necessarily a foregone conclusion that Naruto would have beaten him. Personally, I actually find it very doubtful that that would be the case. In other words, I view it as Nagato having the choice between going all out to kill (summoning Gedo Statue or the like) or to save (the Samsara of Heavenly Life) and he simply chose to save. Is there clearcut supporting/contradicting evidence for this? In support of my interpretation, if Nagato did in fact have the ability to resummon the Gedo Statue (clearly he still controls it for sealing tailed beasts), is the fact that Naruto tends to almost always try a physical attack first in any novel confrontation...I don't think there could be a worse possible opponent for him (touching the summon is instant and certain death).
 * Too long;only skimmed. It's been taken care of though --Cerez365 (talk) 13:00, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

You make a valid point, but considering Naruto is the host for the Nine tailed fox and Nagato needed him alive long enough to extract it, performing that technique, especially on the border of Konoha would be a move I doubt he'd make. Making any sort of judgement call on their fight debatable as Nagato was down to fighting by himself with the limitation of keeping his target alive while Naruto had already been through a life and death struggle to this point, but had no such need to keep his enemy alive. With tis in mind, I think the line should be changed to "He decided not to fight Nagato, as that would only perpetuate the cycle of revenge." but other than that I don't think a clear cut victor can be called on a fight that never happened and seemed to have some seriously messed up conditions.--Hawkeye2701 (talk) 13:08, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can agree with that. I am not claiming with certainty that Naruto would lose, but certainly his choice was whether "to fight" and not "to kill."

Well, considering Naruto himself said "So, I won't kill you guys.", there isn't much support for any statement stating that Nagato could still have won. He was low on chakra, not to mention his mobility was limited by his machine. Skitts (talk) 02:43, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

At the risk of sounding inflamatory, in a fight against Nagato, who, while his chakra may have been low, still managed to revive every dead person in konoha (That type of technique typically taking a large amount of chakra to begin with, let alone an entire village worth.) and Konan, a perfectly capable member of Akatsuki who cared deeply for her teammate, not to mention the line you're giving isn't exactly the raw translation either, I stand by that any position taken on the victor of this fight would be purely speculative. --213.122.96.222 (talk) 03:18, February 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yea. With Konan's power I get the impression that even if Naruto killed Nagato, he likely wouldn't be long for the world after. I could see some difficulty in defending against a rasenshuriken while in the devices Nagato was linked to making it hard for him to defend himself freely, so I'd say it's more a situation where there's definite risk to both sides. ZeroSD (talk) 08:34, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

The most logical thing to say would be "Naruto decided against attempting to kill Nagato" since there is no way to know for sure if Naruto would have beaten him as we don't yet know Nagato's abilities in the chair. Not to mention Konan was there, who was capable of inflicting severe damage to Madara and forced him to use Izanagi, and nagato had a substantial amount of chakra left, performing a jutsu that normally takes a shinobi's life after just reviving one person. There is no way to say with certainty that Naruto would have killed Nagato had he tried. --JustinCredibleLove (talk) 05:06, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Konan's being able to severely damage Madara was a far different situation. She had knowledge of the duration of Madara's intangibility technique, and thus was able to prep for it. This does not mean she necessarily stood a chance of stoppinng Naruto. Skitts (talk) 00:45, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

And we'll never know because she's dead end of discussion. This isn't a forum.--Cerez365™☺ 00:56, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

seeing chakra and enhanced vision
i know about the barriar and the feet and stuff,but isnt it more possible he can just sense chakra?i mean,he couldn see the sage chakra extending the punch when he fought Naruto Naruto even saying a attack he cant see?and about the vision enhancement,i think he can only see as much as a normal eye,since one of the methods of defeating him was forming blind spots.66.142.141.250 (talk) 06:43, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

The Rinnegan does not (or any other doujutsu as far as we know) allow one to see senjutsu chakra. This is evidenced by the fact that Pain was confused by the fact that the Path that appeared to have dodged Naruto's punch was still destroyed. he couldn't see the sage mode chakra. Skitts (talk) 21:39, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Frog Kata doesn't use senjutsu chakra per se, it uses natural energy, which is used to make senjutsu chakra. There's a difference. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:57, April 16, 2011 (UTC)

Uhh.. Presumably?
"One of his Rinnegan was presumably removed, and was inserted in Madara's left eye-socket". Last time I checked, Madara DID remove and insert the Rinnegan into his eye socket. Or was I imagining all this? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 08:34, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Family?
UM, in the manga it is said by the rain underlining he killed his parents wife and kids. How did that start, just wondering.


 * I don't remember the Ame nin saying anything about "wife" and "kids" in both the manga and anime. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:51, April 27, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi


 * I think you're confused with the part where Ryūsui tells Jiraiya that Pain killed not only Hanzō, but Hanzō's parents, wife and children, distant relatives, friends, and their children. —ShounenSuki (talk 08:52, April 28, 2011 (UTC)

Movement.
Now I can't quite remember where I read this, but it said the reasons for Nagato being in the mechanical device for movement was because he was burned by a technique either Hanzo or his Salamander used, causing severe burns to Nagatos legs. I had a quick scan through Nagatos page but don't think I saw it in there. I will do my best to find where I saw this bit of info. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 03:40, May 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * 447. ~SnapperTo 03:45, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

Well,i just did not understand one thing. The impure world resurrection technique should bring the souls back to this world with it's bodies fully restored,but Nagato is still unable to walk. I know that he's lost his legs movements when he was alive,but Itachi's lost his sharingan's sight when he was alive too and was supposed to be blind,but he is not. Can someone explain me Why Nagato can not walk ?
 * It's called "Inbō no Jutsu" (I hope I got it right), more commonly known as "Plot no Jutsu". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:23, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that the impure world resurrection technique brings the subject back at a time close to his/her death. If it brought them back in the prime of their life of with their bodies restored Chiyo wouldn't be an old lady, Hanzou wouldn't be weak from his long paranoid years of seclusion, and Kakazu wouldn't be filled with his seaweed ligaments. Nagato wasn't crippled in his fight against Hanzou because he used the Paths of Pain to fight him. I think that the chakra rods that got rammed in his back and their effect of emaciating his body is what crippled him.--98.203.169.149 (talk) 01:43, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * No he was crippled by Hanzō's Exploding Tag Technique. The rods/ Gedō Mazō did give him the emaciated look though. Just accept it as part of Kishimoto's plot and let it at that.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:26, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Then if Kabuto resurrected Jiraiya,he would come back to this world without the arm he's lost when fighting Pain ?
 * Not a forum.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:28, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Thank u --'

How do you come to the conclusion that the revived Itachi is not almost blind? His sight was los when he fought Sasuke and I'm sure that this hasnt changed just because he was resurrected. It is much more of a plothole that Sasori was resurrected as a young man since he only stayed young because he turned himself into a puppet. The resurrected Sasori is made out of flesh (ok... dirt, but you know what I mean :D) and should be a lot older --217.187.37.133 (talk) 23:50, August 7, 2011 (UTC)Timiursa

Trivia Addition
Would the fact that every ninja that was shown to have defeated one of Pain's bodies on screen could each use the Rasengan be noteworthy enough to add to the Trivia? Skitts (talk) 17:24, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, (if you know about this, I'm confused if Konohamaru destroyed one of the paths, because I still saw it in Naruto's fight) we can add it. --Ilnarutoanime 17:37, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Even though you're right, that's "junk trivia" we try to shy away from titbits like that here.--Cerez365™ 17:45, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Nagato's image
Hello

I uploada new picture of nagato.

well, is this better?

THANKYOU20:40, July 23, 2011 (UTC)~

Personality
Did Kabuto remove his personality? His eye turns dark on page 14.--Deva 27 13:58, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think so, that'd be the only way to show it. He also stopped talking.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:03, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Nagato appearance changing
In Naruto Manga 550 Nagato took some of Killer B chakra and his hair turned red and he turned back into his youth appearance is he getting back young and strong or is it just an appearance change?Lil rob (talk) 08:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)Lil rob
 * His body is getting "strong" again; he was never old though.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:50, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

DO anyone know if he got weak from his battle and death or just for what other reason?Lil rob (talk) 18:37, August 6, 2011 (UTC)Lil rob
 * If i understand correctly, he didn't get weaker, he just couldn't walk.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:44, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Image (Appearance section)
If the full body image is needed, I suggest to wait for the next chapter, because the image of young Nagato is obviously out-dated.Faust-RSI (talk) 14:52, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I simply find it unnecessary because of this.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:53, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

I have uploaded an image for it --> This akz! (talk) 15:04, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Movement, again.
Reading through the Articles on Nagato, I got a little confused.

"and could stand without the support machine he had once used to move around"

I think this should be changed. I think the only reason he was "standing" was because he was in his coffin which would have supported him? As seen in the latest chapter, once Itachi let go of Nagato, he couldn't stand on his own. Although, he could have been kneeling to do his summons.. Hmmm. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 01:09, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * But Nagato is able to stand (and stoop) on his own, he isn't however able to walk or anything like that. When Itachi let him go he was standing for a short period of time. He was also standing inside the chameleon's mouth as well as when he went to attack B.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:21, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah I see what you meant now. I removed the bit about him standing since he was inside the coffin and it isn't relevant there.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:25, August 11, 2011 (UTC)

Kuchiose No Jutsu
Was just wondering why aren't the Animals listed as summons? We know for a fact that Nagato himself can summon them without Animal Parh. 68.230.70.176 (talk) 04:58, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because putting making every summon Nagato ever did appear in the infobox will make a huge list that'll make it look ugly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Status
I'm confused. Nagato was dead, sure, that is why his status is "deceased" even if he was resurrected with Edo Tensei. But now he is sealed in Totsuka - in eternal genjutsu - and his soul cannot be released by any means. Shouldn't we change his status to "Incapacitated", like Orochimaru's? Faust-RSI (talk) 14:01, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * He is still dead.--Deva 27 14:02, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * His state is exactly same as Orochimaru's Faust-RSI (talk) 14:06, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is dead. All Edo Tensei'd people are dead.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:08, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I presume we should change Orochimaru's status to "deceased"? His body was killed by Sasuke long ago. His soul state is same as Nagato's Faust-RSI (talk) 14:18, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

No friend, this is how it works: There is no status as "revived" If you died and were then edo tensei'd you're still deceased. Orochimaru was never killed, Sasuke absorbed him and then he was sealed with the Sword of Totsuka. (remember he had a body coming out of the Eight Branches Technique) Being that the sword seals you forever, technically he isn't dead, just eternally incapacitated. Nagato was dead before his soul was sealed into the sword.--Cerez365™ 14:25, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * This is indeed a difficult topic. Orochimarus body was sliced by Sasuke, but he managed to get out of the snake. Then his body(?) was sealed in Totsuka. Nagato's body wasn't but his soul was. So I'd say, Nagato's and Orochimar's status are the same, since both souls are trapped in the Genjutsu and are not dead/in the other world. But on the other hand, Nagato said that he'd go back into the other world... how can that be if his sooul's going to be sealed in the Totsuka sword? Seelentau 愛議 22:36, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * But Nagato actually died. After you die there's nothing after that even if you've been edo tensei'd. There are a lot of conditions surrounding the Totsuka sword and even Orochimaru and those snakes but the fact still remains that Nagato was dead.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:51, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * If there was nothing, those zombies couldn't even have been revived. No sir, it is obvious that, at least in Naruto, exists something like a Nirvana/Afterlife. As you know it is called the pure world. And Nagato's soul was taken from there to the real world. The problem is, it wasn't is body. But at least his soul was alive. And that soul is now sealed in the Totsuka and so is Orochi's. Seelentau 愛議 22:58, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Long story short, Nagato's deader than dead now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * In that case, Orochi's too and should be marked as dead, not in..whatever the word is^^ Seelentau 愛議 00:43, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nagato died, and then had his soul sealed. Orochimaru was simply sealed body and soul together. Not the same. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:19, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru's body was sliced up by Sasuke, wasn't it? Anyhow, the outcome is the same: Nagato's soul is in Totsuka, Orochimaru's is in it, too. The body is a different topic, but has nothing to do with the life and death of a person. The existence of Edo Tensei is my proof for that: It completly ignores the body and is just focusing on where the soul is. Seelentau 愛議 01:47, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Movement (for the last time)
I know I’m a bit late, but let me clear one thing once and for all. Nagato’s limited movement is not a result of Hanzo’s attack. In fact, Hanzo himself said Nagato somehow evaded it. It’s manga fact he was jumping (notice the distance) and squatting after that. No need to make assumptions – all shown in the manga. On the contrary, he was never shown to move normally after being synced with Gedo Mazo through the black rods, it was even shown some of them are connected to his spine which is cruel for movement. Nagato was obviously emaciated through rods and not only that, being unable to freely move with them he spent YEARS in his wheel-chair meaning his muscles were almost completely atrophied. And this is the main reason. That also explains:
 * 1. Why Nagato remained cripple in his ET form. ET brings your body back healthy, but doesn’t turn you into body-builder, i.e. muscle mass remains the same. With atrophied muscles on his legs etc. Nagato was still unable to move normally even in ET form.
 * 2. Why Nagato didn’t use his Preta powers to regain health. It was useless because while alive he was synced with Gedo Mazo and it would immediately emaciate him again. Also, the problem of rods wouldn’t be solved with Preta.

I think I’ve provided enough manga scans to correct the article. Faust-RSI (talk) 21:05, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Hanzō says that Nagato evaded the worse of his attack. Note that Nagato did not move after having his feet blown up. The way I see it, Hanzō crippled him and the rods emaciated him. A lot of attention has been placed on his feet subtly throughout the chapters where he is resurrected and then revitalised for us to ignore it. If it were a case where he moved afterwards then it would be a different case.--Cerez365™ 21:45, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * You are saying he did not move despite I provided two links where he did. In first link, even if he had jumped at the same time as explosion was activated, he still must had to land safely with Konan in his hands and he had done it perfectly. Hanzo damaged his legs - no doubt, there were even scars left as was shown in the latest chapters. Nevertheless, the attention on legs during fight with Hanzo was made for different reason - to show how desperate Nagato was and why he had chosen this overkill move - Gedo Mazo. He was not only raged, but also injured, and in that situation this was enough for him. Hanzo crippling him makes no sense at all:
 * 1. In ninja world where you can make ANYTHING with chakra you can heal almost anything.
 * 2. Nagato had Preta and Asura to heal his legs, yet he never used them.
 * 3. Nagato was resurrected as ET and still couldn't move normally.
 * Black rods and muscle atrophy explains that all, is actually based on manga and eliminates the need to blame author about being inconsistent, illogical or using Plot no Jutsu. I can't see why it is hard to accept. Faust-RSI (talk) 09:07, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

I was referring to page 5 onwards when he ceases movement. Nagato has shown the ability to at least stoop before he was revitalised.
 * 1) Not everyone has access to brilliant medical ninja like Konohagakure does.
 * 2) The possibility exists that he could not use them at the time. It's also possible that he never had access to the quantity or quality of chakra the Eight-Tails has to complete such a feat.
 * 3) If that explains it all why doesn't the same hold true for other parts of his body like his hands that were just as emaciated? The spine plays just as much a role in their movement. There is simply no way to completely rule out the fact that the fire did play a part in Nagato's crippling. Also care to explain why his was still white when he was resurrected? It could be as simple as part of Kishimoto's plot.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:25, August 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Stoop is nothing like jumping and also standing with the all weight of all rods.


 * 1) Speculation. Also, there was no need to be "brilliant" like Tsunade.
 * 2) Speculation. Giving Hachibi's chakra those qualities out of nowhere would be plot no jutsu, and there is no need for that.
 * 3) Well, "damaged spine" is not the main part of the story and I'm not insisting on it. The rods role is that in emaciated state it is even more difficult to move with them. Also, fire did play a role and I even descriped part of it myself. I'm talking about this moment in article: "Nagato's legs were greatly damaged in a battle against Hanzō. As a result, even though he can stand up by himself, he can't move as quickly." It strongly implies Hanzo was main and only reason of his immobility, which is not true. And why his hair shouldn't be white? His hair colour is not a physical damage, it just indicates the state of his body (and manga strongly implies this state is the same as when DNA sample was taken. Sasori's was taken while he still was human, thus he got human body. Nagato's was obviously taken after his death (no way Kabuto knew about him earlier), so he got white hair. But this is off-topic). Faust-RSI (talk) 12:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Arm cannon.
When Nagato was using the Asura Path's powers he showed an arm cannon that wasn't shown before...since most of the Asura Path's weapons are listed as techniques, maybe an article can be made to list that as well? Any opinions? Darksusanoo (talk) 23:51, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I understood, Nagato simply had in his arm what the Asura Path had in its head. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:01, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the Asura Path abilities are basicaly technological weapons it appears to be a different device from the head cannon. the thing is basicaly a walking weapons depo. So if it's a different weapon it could be listed as a different technique. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:21, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or a notation could be made in the already scanty article and a note made/ other image added. I don't know exactly what we'd call it: hand-rope-detachment-cool looking thingy- technique?--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:27, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you serious or just being ironic? Darksusanoo (talk) 02:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Either way since every one of the Asura Path's tech are based on different weapons, it doesn't make sense not to make an article about the arm cannon. And if your serious about the other arm it could be called mechanical arm tendrils...simple, generic and acurate. What do you think? Darksusanoo (talk) 17:08, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or we could just create a gallery on Asura's page to show them and move them when they get a name.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:26, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Works as well by me. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:33, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

field of vision
as stated by Kabuto, Nagato could not only see through the eyes of his SPoP but also through his summonings' eyes as well as the King of Hell's. That's something we've always assumed but couldnt prove it, so it should be added to the article...--
 * This is not new information, it's already mentioned in the articles from last week.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:13, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Nagato's other name.
Hello,

Since nagato cast the seventh pain "Outer path", shouldn't we put it on the other name like: God, Pain....etc?

THANKYOU15:28, August 26, 2011 (UTC)~
 * I'm not really sure, it's a technique and supposedly at the same time from the translation, Konan seemingly did refer to him as such. But I don't know if it's necessarily a moniker.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:51, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Jiraiya being able to beat Nagato…
…under the section about Nagato's abilities

Not once did Pain/Nagato say Jiraiya would win if he knew the secrets to his techniques. He said if it wasn't for the secret, period, as per se chapter 383, page 13. As for the Genjutsu add: chapter 378, page 7, Fukasaku explicitly said that Pain/Nagato *not* knowing that Jiraiya is a Genjutsu user would be a *huge* advantage. Further supported by chapter 379, page 10, where Pain/Nagato clearly said he didn't expect Jiraiya to have high level Genjutsu and where Jiraiya lectures him about *underestimating* his opponents; page 15 of that chapter Shuradou reminded the readers that he was lectured about *underestimating his foes*.

In all its apparent that Nagato/Pain underestimated the Genjutsu and were caught; how does this link to the secret? Well read on.

The secret as we know is that "the real one isn't with them". Logically if Jiraiya knew the secret he would've capitalised on it and taken the Genjutsu to an unsuspecting Nagato; thus with that secret Nagato/Pain would've probably wouldn't have been able to win.

I believe this notion is more supported than "knowing the secret to his techniques" as the way I put it, it flows nicely whereas I had to search hell and back and still couldn't find a citation for "knowing the secret to his techniques" but instead noticed that in relation to any secret all the emphasis was homed in on the fact Nagato/the real one wasn't with them (Pain).

Plausible?