Talk:Truth-Seeking Ball

Being Permanently Lost
had this question...was it stated anywhere in the databook that the TSBs can be permanently lost...because I'm looking at the reference for it [chapter 669] & no one ever said that these things can be lost forever...or am I mistaken... --DARK ZERO--talk 22:04, May 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Observation.--Elve Talk Page 22:11, May 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Minato said so, I think. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:13, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

where exactly did he say that...I'm reading the mangastream scans...even if he did say it no one knew shit about them & he talks like he know if they can be permanently lost & shit?...I see no reliability in his presumed saying...& what do U mean by observation...yes we haven't seen anymore being created by any of the users [except kaguya which is a different case being an exception in many areas & her TSB was an expansive one so let's not discuss that now] but that doesn't mean that they can NEVER be regenerated or recreated... --DARK ZERO--talk 22:33, May 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Naruto, Obito and Madara spent them one by one. Feel free to re-read the chapters and see for yourself.--Elve Talk Page 05:58, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

what kind of logic is that...just because they didn't recreate them during one single night it doesn't mean they can't do it forever...are you telling me that that bastard hagoromo NEVER used a single one of his fucking balls that he has all of them when he spoke to naruto & sasuke in their minds...plus, the only time we have seen them getting destroyed was when kaguya took over madara and his balls [you can say both his TSB balls & his actuall balls] disintegrated...unless there is a statement in the databook that these can be PERMANENTLY lost, we need to remove it from the article...because nowhere in the damn manga we have heard such a thing...& also one more perfect proof is that obito lost all of his balls before losing the 10tails & he RECREATED one from madara's chakra...not enough proof for you?..U can go see it for yourself too... --DARK ZERO--talk 07:23, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * He recreated it from Black Zetsu~ • Seelentau 愛 議 09:49, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Dark Zero- the expletives are unnecessary, ad is the caps lock rage. With regards to how that section is worded, it may be accurate but it is ambiguous at best. Lost forever is a cliffhanger statement as opposed to "cannot be regenerated" which is what I'm assuming they wanted to say. Would that suffice?—Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:06, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Again... Per Cerez365. 11:14, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

@seel seriously :|...since when is BZ made of TSB to recreate one from it...if this is the case then add it to either the TSB page or the BZ or obito's page that he indeed recreated one from it...but I honestly think your mistaken...he created it from the chakra he absorbed from madara...he just moved BZ's coating up his hand so that he could wield the ball/staff... @cerez I uh.......didn't understand the first line of your reply :D sry...so you are suggesting to leave it be as it is even though it has been proven otherwise that TSBs CAN indeed be recreated just like how obito did?..ok...your choice... --DARK ZERO--talk 12:19, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * BZ isn't made out of TSB. Obito created a black orb and formed a staff out of BZ and used Senjutsu chakra on it to deflect Madara's TSB. Nothing else. It's a make-shift TSB, lacking the five natures. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:34, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Why...
...do we use a game image when we also have an anime one? Iloveinoxxx (talk) 11:25, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * I assume it's because we've done so on the Six Paths Sage Mode article (though, there's no anime rendition of the mode yet) and we've done the same on the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode article. 11:29, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * I concur with WindStar, but also because the depictions in the anime are slightly blurred or hard to obtain. The game image is sharper and focuses better in the infobox. --Sajuuk talk 12:01, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Misinterpretation
The Shakujou is not made of the Gudoudama as the Gudoudama's original shape is a ball and it only can stay in a different shape for a period of time. The Gudoudama literally means "seeking for truth" (求道 gudō) "ball" (玉 dama). Thus stating that the Shakujou is made of the Gudoudama is a contradiction. Although it is the same as the Gudoudama that can change its shape, however, the Shakujou seems to have its own shape, thus it should be specifically classified as a separate object. MangaJamesNathanAnime (talk) 04:06, June 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * On Chapter 672, when Gai uses his "Night Guy", Madara only has the Shakujō left; no Gudōdama. After he gets kicked, the Shakujō is gone and he has one Gudōdama. Would you like to explain that? --Atrix471 (talk) 22:03, June 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Whose shakujo are you talking about? • Seelentau 愛 議 22:04, June 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Madara's. There before the kick, gone after. No Gudōdama before the kick, one after. --Atrix471 (talk) 22:06, June 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not you, I meant the OP^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 22:09, June 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * That, I'm not sure. But the Shakujou was blown away on that same chapter 672 when he was kicked (as you said that it was gone) and Madara was sent flying at least more than 70 meters (then appears the Gudoudama out of nowhere). Regarding Obito's confrontation talk with Madara on chapter 665, it seemed though he used Black Zetsu's mass to form the Shakujou even though it seemed to take the shape of the Gudoudama first (kinda short/tiny for the usual Gudoudama) before it took the shape of the Shakujou. The Shakujou seemed to have been depicted differently from the Gudoudama in terms of shape and that to consider Gudoudama's literal name and literal reference. My point is both the Gudoudama and the Shakujou are pretty much of the same thing as both can change shape and float but it does seem to differ and thought it'd be better to specify the Shakujou's classification in name. MangaJamesNathanAnime (talk) 04:07, June 26, 2015 (UTC)

SPS
According to this SPS is parent to TSB after all, hence all TSB users are SPS users.--Elve  Talk Page 13:43, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why do you always twist the words from the manga and databooks? It doesn't say anything like that. On the contrary, it says "Those who awakened SPS have the TSB". Not "Those who have the TSB have SPS". Please stop misusing my translations. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:49, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Um how is that different? You get SPS > you get TSB also. Unless you suggest you can get TSB without SPS.--Elve Talk Page 13:51, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly: You get SPS > you get TSB also. That's not the same as "You have TSB = you have SPS". How is that so hard to grasp? It's almost the same as your problem with Kaguya and the Ten-Tails. It's a common mistake while making logical conclusions, but you should really work on that. No insult intended. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:56, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * My point is there's no other way to get TSB mentioned is there. Does the expansive tsb have its own entry?--Elve Talk Page 13:57, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * You might have noticed that many things weren't mentioned in the databook. Yet Madara and Obito have the TSB w/o using SPS. And yes, I translated it as well in that thread. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:58, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you bud, sorry for jumping to conclusions.--Elve Talk Page 14:01, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong here in translation shouldn't it be Kekkei Tōta instead of Kekkei Mōra? this line- This is a power that easily exceeds both "Kekkei Genkai" and "Kekkei Mora".--Mecha Naruto (talk) 14:21, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * ...I'm doing those translations late at night, so mistakes can happen. Thanks for the notice ^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 14:35, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

Number of orbs
Was a TSB ever transformed into a shakujo? Or a shakujo into a TSB? I'm asking this because when Obito gained control of the Ten-Tails, he had at most nine orbs and one shakujo. When Madara confronted Kakashi and the others, he had nine orbs and a shakujo as well. Same goes for Hagoromo when he first appeared in Naruto's subconscious. So either the shakujos aren't transformed orbs or everyone actually starts out with ten orbs. This would fit with Hamura having only five orbs, which is the exact half of ten and would fit the whole sun/moon imaginery. Oh and only Naruto had 9 orbs after he entered godmode. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:57, July 12, 2015 (UTC)

Nevermind. I suggest you guys look into my recent additions to the article, though. Maybe needs some rewording. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:37, July 12, 2015 (UTC)