Talk:Rinnegan

Ashura + Indra = Rinnegan
According to the latest chapter, you need specifically the chakra of Indra and Ashura to combine in order to get the Rinnegan, which means you have to be a reincarnation of either of those two to be able to get it, I guess we should add that to the article. --Chrillbill (talk) 14:32, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Aye. What I'm wondering about is, do you still need the Mangekyo Sharingan? Seelentau 愛議 14:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * So this is why Obito hasn't gotten his own Rinnegan, I suppose, nor Danzo--Elveonora (talk) 20:33, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Obito hasn't gotten Rinnegan yet because he hasn't. Madara only awakened Rinnegan in his advanced age, and he raised the point that for this reason Obito probably wouldn't awaken it. The descendents of both clans have Indra's and Ashura's chakra though, its just the reincarnations do to a far greater extent. Skarrj (talk) 20:44, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Na, there's a difference between being a descendant of Indra and being his reincarnation. Seelentau 愛議 20:53, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * They aren't even literal reincarnations or are they? Only the chakras get passed on, not their souls. Otherwise it would be impossible for there to be both Madara&Sasuke and Hashirama&Naruto at once.--Elveonora (talk) 21:06, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know the specifics on the real world definition of reincarnation, but this chapter made it very clear that to get the Rinnegan, one specifically needs the chakra of Indra and Asura, who from time to time are reincarnated. If they were to suddenly reincarnate in two other random clans, and a similar cell implanting happened, Rinnegan would pop up. It has nothing to do with actually being blood related to Hagoromo. And remember, in the wise, wise words of TU3: "chakra is screwy". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Real world definition of reincarnation means to be reborn again after the passing of your current physical vessel with your soul being given another one to occupy, like you get killed or "die" of old age and a second later you just wake up in a newborn baby, meaning it's immediate. We were told only chakras of Ashura and Indra get passed on, so they aren't literal reincarnations, more like inheritors of power. If it were a real incarnation, then there would be no Madara and Hashirama to be revived with Edo Tensei since they would be Sasuke and Naruto at the time. For chakra is screwy, I don't think it's to be taken literary. If that were, then all Orochimaru would have had to do was to absorb some chakra from both Naruto and Sasuke and hurray!!! The Rinnegan.... there wouldn't be a reason for him to go through decades of genetic experiments. To me it's obvious the chakras of Ashura and Indra get passed on only to their blood descendants, because they genetically have a portion/watered down version of said chakras already. If it were any different, then we would have Inuzuka and Aburame with powers of Ashura and Indra--Elveonora (talk) 10:15, April 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well, chakra is in fact screwy.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:11, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * The physical body creates more chakra. So even if Orochimaru or Madara as examples got hands on both chakras of Ashura and Indra, getting the Rinnegan, it would be only temporarily and gone the moment they would have spent up the said chakra, or not? Meaning a piece of body indeed is required, to continuously create the chakras--Elveonora (talk) 12:20, April 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * These arguments of yours are really credible, I don't see how to argue with them, but I see that somehow the article got ripped of any DNA requirements with only chakra requirements left and that just can't be true. Hashirama and Madara both could absorb chakra but no one of them awakened rinnegan until actual cells were transplanted. It's pretty obvious both cells AND chakra are required. That's what actually happened with Sasuke - he got Hashi's cells from Kabuto AND chakra from Hagoromo as replacements for Naruto's cells and chakra.Faust-RSI (talk) 08:28, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, to me obviously at least, absorbing Indra and Ashura's chakras alone wouldn't do a thing. Because the absorbed chakra would eventually run out. While cells on the other hand, continuously produce more chakra.--Elveonora (talk) 10:48, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Power to See One's Life-Force
In chapter 672, Madara was able to see the life-force of Might Guy flickering out. Later, Naruto, using the power of the Sage of Six Paths, targeted that same point to save Guy's life. This should be added to Madara and the Rinnegan's page. Steveo920, 16:14, April 9, 2014
 * That was just chakra not life-force. Also it mustn't even meant that Madara saw it, could have been Kishimoto showing us.--Elveonora (talk) 20:16, April 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * Madara was plainly talking a key point on Guy. Steveo920, 16:20, April 9, 2014
 * Looks exactly like what he saw when Guy opened the last gate, which was chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara: "From the chakra around your heart's pressure point, I can see that the next attack will be your last". No life force mentioned.--JOA20 (talk) 20:32, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Differing appearance..
There is two known Rinnegan.. the one that has the tomoe seals which the Shinju, Kaguya and Sasuke have and the one that Hagoromo and Madara have. Anybody have any clue what the actual differences between the two are? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:06, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem is that both are called Rinnegan, while the Tomoe-Rinnegan is also called Sharingan. Other than that (and the Tomoe), there's no apparent difference shown yet. Seelentau 愛議 09:29, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * This is so confusing... so Kaguya's Rinnegan+Sharingan is called Sharingan and Sasuke's Rinnegan+Sharingan is called Rinnegan. Kishi is playing fools with us--Elveonora (talk) 13:50, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha well yes kishi is lol, but anyways will there be a pic added of the kinds of rinnegan on this page? Munchvtec (talk) 14:03, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * A Rinnegan is always a Sharingan, but a Sharingan isn't always a Rinnegan. I'd just describe how Sasuke gained the Rinnegan, that it's like a fusion of Rinnegan and Sharingan and that it was called Sharingan by Hagoromo earlier. Everything else is speculation and should be kept out of the article, as usual. • Seelentau 愛議 14:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

But to be more specific, the tomoe rinnegan only appears in a single eye,(one eyed Jubi, third eye of Kaguya, and now Sasuke), while the Rinnegan awakened for both eyes are the purplish tomoe less ones. But still strange, Kaguya's hyper-super eye was considered as a sharingan, and Sasuke's a rinnegan. Gerisama (talk) 16:29, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Gerisama

I believe the difference stems from the manner of acquisition. Madara's eyes evolved over time and exposure to Hashirama's chakra, whereas this "perfect" version of Kaguya's and Sasuke's was achieved by taking in the Ten-tails fruit or gifted to by the Ten-Tails host (my theory being that the Sage of Six Paths they encountered outside of natural time would still have some of the beasts' chakra). I'm sure they're almost identical in effect and ability, but i'm sure there will be a significant difference between a Natural Rinnegan and Nurtured Rinnegan. Shadowfox337 (talk) 17:45, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Another difference would be is that the Rinnegan that Kaguya, Juubi, and Sasuke was shown too be red in colour on volume cover for volume 64 instead of the normal purple that the regular version has

That should probably listed in the article as well since it isn't mentioned that there's different color variations for the Rinnegan.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 18:10, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I say we simply stop trying to make sense of things. Kaguya's eye was called a Sharingan, we call it Sharingan where it concerns her, Sasuke's eye was called a Rinnegan, we call it Rinnegan where it concerns him. What I want to know, is that do we call Shinju's eye now. We decided to call it Sharingan because its eye was the same as Kaguya's, and hers was called a Sharinga, but now there's another possibility and no concrete comparison in-universe. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:13, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

what I'm wondering is, who called kaguya third eye sharingan? Cause i dont remember anyone or statement saying she had sharingan. Now she does have the powers of sharingan.. Sasuke new eye looks not similiar but exactly like Kaguya's third eye. Knowing that sasuke has the power of sharingan and rinnegan with his new it will probably be safe to say the same for kaguya.--Ankhael (talk) 03:15, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Kaguya was said to have the Sharingan's power, not the Sharingan eye. Her eye likely allows the usage of Sharingan abilities, but it still seems to be the same eye as the Rinnegan. Xfing (talk) 19:00, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Xfing, please observe the chronological order of the replies. And no. The term used in the raw was douryuko, which has long been considered a synonym with doujutsu. So she has Sharingan, that is clear as day. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:56, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe Seel's response to this was that every Rinnegan is a Sharingan. Therefore stating that a Rinnegan user has the Sharingan isn't wrong. So Kaguya having had the Sharingan doesn't exclude having the Rinnegan as well--Elveonora (talk) 18:01, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * At least one editor read what I said. :D • Seelentau 愛議 18:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Reading is something, agreeing is another. Your argument is that as the Rinnegan is the final stage of the Sharingan, every Rinnegan user is by extension a Sharingan user. That falls because as far as we know, Hagoromo never had the Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indra was born with "his father's eyes". Indra had the Sharingan. --JOA20 (talk) 19:37, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni, just because a character isn't known to have used X doesn't mean he/she can't use X. Tobirama is yet to use Edo Tensei on screen too, yet we know he made it and used it in the past. We know the Rinnegan is also a Sharingan by extension, so yes, Hagoromo also had the Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @JOA20 "His father's eyes" = "he has doujutsu". Indra had a Sharingan, not a Rinnegan. Even in the "every Rinnegan is a Sharingan" argument, that doesn't mean "every Sharingan is a Rinnegan". Sage was always known by the Rinnegan, not Sharingan. Knowing and using a jutsu is much simpler than having an ever-complicated working-er dojutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * And the Rinnegan is but Sharingan with an extra layer of flavor on top of it. Please explain, how could he have had the Rinnegan without having the Sharingan too. The Rinnegan is everything that the Sharingan is but more.--Elveonora (talk) 20:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I fully agree with Elveonora. Hagoromo probably has access to the Sharingan. It hasn't been shown in the manga, and it shouldn't be listed under the Kekkei Genkai section (not that anyone suggested that, but Elveonora seems to imply so). That's would make us look like headless Naruto fans. Plus, it'd be connecting the dots. Same logic with Kaguya, she has the Byakugan and Sharingan, NOT the Rinnegan (unless later stated otherwise). BTW, you guys should stop whining about the "Power of the Sharingan." She was clearly shown to have the Sharingan eye on her forehead, and the raw stated it was the eye itself. Though it may be exactly like Sasuke's and the Shinju's eyes, the manga stated Sasuke's was a Rinnegan (and if you look at the chapter 674 raw that leaked, his eye is looking more like the Rinnegan we're accustomed to seeing, it's losing tomoe!) and Kaguya's was a Sharingan. Things that look alike do not mean that they are the same (again, unless stated otherwise). So far, Kaguya doesn't have a Rinnegan. The Shinju doesn't have a Rinnegan. Sasuke does. Stop making a big damn deal out of this "Power of the Sharingan" notion. It's pure nonsense, ridiculous and downright stupid. Kishimoto-sensei may have confused us, but that is how he made things, and we should follow suit, not make stupid assumptions and overanalyze things. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

Kaguya and the Juubi should be listed as users.
Since the Sasuke's eye has been confirmed too be the Rinnegan Kaguya and the Juubi should be listed as well since they share the same eye.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 18:25, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

The respective topics are still going, we will have to think this through first.--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

"Switching" Speculation
"While the powers of the Rinnegan remain intact upon implanting them into a new person, like Nagato and Obito, only one who "naturally" manifests the Rinnegan, as in Madara's case, is able to switch between the Rinnegan and Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan; otherwise, the Rinnegan is always activated."

The sentence above is pure speculation. It is never stated once that only those who "naturally" manifests the Rinnegan can switch between it and the Sharingan. That is pure speculation. Madara has shown to switch his eyes, however it has never been stated that any other person with it was unable to switch it, it was never shown, which could be due to any number of reasons (such as them feeling the Rinnegan was [truthfully] the most powerful choice). That would be the equivalent of stating that a character CANNOT use a chakra nature, just because they have not been shown to use it (which we would never due, we would just leave it blank and only fill it in if information has been given). The policies on this site are very clear that unless the information has been outright stated or confirmed, which this is not, it should NEVER be included in the article. Dragon Hacker (talk) 03:39, April 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Changed it to say only Madara has been seen deactivating the Rinnegan. While unlikely, we don't know if Nagato and Obito could or not, so we shouldn't say either way.--BeyondRed (talk) 04:07, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Hear me out
Although Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan... I think I know the reason Obito called him the Third Six Paths. He was an Uzumaki and was Edo Tensei'ed WITH the Rinnegan, as if the Kekkei Genkei was in his blood the same way Itachi had the Mangekyo in his blood, so I believe although initially the eyes were transplanted to him from Madara they actually helped him awaken his OWN Rinnegan since the eyes had Uchiha DNA. Therefor although he had Madara's Rinnegan in his head it also helped him awaken his own Rinnegan in his blood, so if he had lost Madara's eyes and transplanted Random Sharingan eyes or maybe even another pair of normal eyes, then those eyes would be able to transform into his own Rinnegan eyes. That is why Madara is the Second Six Paths and he is the Third Six Paths. Also, would Sasuke be called the Fourth Six Paths since he awakened the "One-Eyed Rinnegan"?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:31, April 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Impure World Reincarnation brings you back just as you were at the moment of death, unless modified afterwards. When Nagato died, he had the Rinnegan, thus he was revived with the Rinnegan. Same reason why Itachi was revived with his eyes, despite Sasuke having them.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:57, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't think either of us really knows how exactly Edo Tensei works and it irks me to behold that some of us pretend otherwise.--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Edo Tensei, and many other jutsu, work as the plot needs them to work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:24, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

new teleportation technique
shouldn't this technique be created? Sasuke can teleport objects and himself within a certain distance?--AsianInvasion711 (talk) 04:14, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should hold off since we don't know all the details yet. We know absolutely nothing about his method of teleportation, so we should probably just wait a chapter or 2 and then create the page with what we know, because at this point it would barely constituate a sentence. Skarrj (talk) 05:37, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

This may sound crazy
Madara and Obito should be listed with all of Nagato's Rinnegan techniques.

Madara had the dōjutsu and the Gedō Mazō for a unknown amount of time he must have learned a plethora of things before implanting the eyes into Nagato. We know Obito is Madara's apprentice, he must have passed on some of this knowledge to Obito. He's the only person that could have trained Nagato how to properly wield the Rinnegan, and the plan original was for Nagato to ultimately revive Madara.

On a side Madara should be listed for the Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals technique, i believe he passed it on to Obito to teach Nagato how to seal the tailed beast into the Gedō Mazō. (Kuroiraikou (talk) 18:47, April 29, 2014 (UTC))

Not quite. First, the way Madara pulled the tailed beasts back into the statue, it was not with the ethereal dragons, it was with chakra chains, that had a clothespin-like end, which vaguely made them look like dragon heads. Second, no. Look back to when we first saw Nagato summon the statue, chronologically, when Yahiko died. When he deflected the kunai and shuriken from the Ame-nin, he seemed to do that pretty instinctively. While I'm certain that Madara passed knowledge to Obito, and Obito in turn did the same to Nagato, we can't be certain of what, because Nagato has done at least two things, seemingly on his own, before any instruction. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:01, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

New Rinnegan sections?
It would be appropriate to add sections like "Rinnegan Variations" and "Rinnegan forms" like this wiki did with the Mangekyo Sharingan article with its different versions, right? Now that we know Sasuke's Rinnegan is red... WindStar7125 (talk) 19:59, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * I second this- Sasuke's Rinnegan is obviously very different now (to be honest, I wish it was purple instead of red). --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 20:01, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I foresee a lot of exhausting back and forth discussion regarding who has what now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:13, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you agree with me and Kirin or naw? WindStar7125 (talk) 20:30, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * I don't know. With MS, they have always been different among themselves. The Rinnegan, Madara and Hagoromo have the exact same. Sasuke being the different one (not counting whatever other users others will want to have listed) seems to be the exception, not the rule. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:54, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I say no. Not until we know more. This new Rinnegan of Sasuke's is clearly special and Kishi is paying a lot of attention to it recently, so we're sure to get more information on it soon. Just wait until then. No need to go creating wild new sections based on the speculation of the fanbase. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:57, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Can we at least create a .svg image for Sasuke's Rinnegan? In the infobox on Sasuke's page, it is still the purple variant, and we know it is red with 9 tomoe. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:09, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * I don't see why we should. Its not like the Mangekyō Sharingan where each user has a unique design. Like Omnibender already stated, Madara and Hagoromo had the exact same Rinnegan, and Sasuke is the exception to the rule. I'd support that if Madara, Hagoromo, and Sasuke all had different Rinnegan, but I'm not in support of doing that just because one of the three is an anomaly. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:12, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) There's already an svg image for what we currently call the Ten-Tails' eye. Besides, the number of tomoe in Sasuke's Rinnegan is already inconsistent, in the first chapter it appeared, it had 9, and now it has 6. Besides, having specific versions appearing in character infoboxes requires careful infobox tinkering. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:13, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nine tomoe was only for one panel though, it had six in another panel that chapter. Likely a mistake, just like Naruto having 11 Gudodama for a single panel. Doesn't change how inconsistent the Shinju's eye is though.--BeyondRed (talk) 21:26, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I say wait a bit, but I wouldn't argue against it being added either. I'm weird.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:05, May 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * That one panel was an extreme close-up that specifically focused on Sasuke's new Rinnegan, so it is highly unlikely that the tomoe in the third circle was a drawing error, which is what is being used to explain the other supposed 'inconsistencies' with the number of tomoe (really, we'd all be better off waiting for Kishimoto to explain the mechanics behind Sasuke's eye before we all jump to conclusions about the changing number of tomoe in Sasuke's Rinnegan).MJ (talk) 23:18, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Rinnegan has nine tomoe like Kaguya's Sharingan and the Shinju's eye. The Shinju had the same inconsistencies. We should probably use the Ten-Tails eye .svg image in Sasuke's infobox, at the least. WindStar7125 (talk) 22:25, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * I agree with Windstar. Also I think your reasoning is poor Ten Tailed Fox. Even if some people had different Mangekyōs if one or two peoples' varied I would think that .svg files should be made to identify that. So even though Sasuke is the only one with a different Rinnegan right now I still think he needs his own .svg file which another user has uploaded anyway. Does it take time for it to show up in infoboxes? All the recent developments regarding dōjutsu have been getting complicated. Thanks Kishimoto.  Banan 14  kab  11:56, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * You ask questions to which answers have been given multiple times. I'm exhausted of explaining them, look them up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:05, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Tomoe on Sasuke's Rinnegan
Why exactly does Sasuke's Rinnegan have six tomoe? Does it not have nine? I know it's been shown many times that Sasuke's Rinnegan has six, but the Ten-Tails initially had the same inconsistencies as well. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:41, May 24, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

-removed- This panel shows] the third ring has tomoe too. It'd be more accurate to use the normal Juubi eye picture. &#34;Demons run when a good man goes to war.&#34; (talk) 00:27, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * No links please. Once the volume is out, we will know for sure I suppose.--Elveonora (talk) 11:16, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Rinnegan will be on the volume cover? Where did you get that information? WindStar7125 (talk) 14:17, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * I didn't, it may be tho. Also I wasn't talking about the cover specifically, but the panel where the eye is shown with 9 tomoe. If that will be kept for volume release, then yes, Sasuke's Rinnegan also has had 9 but 3 have vanished or something ._.--Elveonora (talk) 16:14, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Like I said, the Shinju had the same inconsistencies, yet we know it has nine tomoe in its eye. WindStar7125 (talk) 16:41, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * Perhaps I'm just blind but every single panel I've seen of Sasuke's Rinnegan from the very start has had six tomoe. So... yeah. Unless anyone can point to me a specific instance where there's nine, I'm pretty sure there's always been six. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:01, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ten Tailed Fox, check the last page of chapter 673. WindStar7125 (talk) 17:58, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * Ah, thank you. Well, after seeing that, I'd say, in Sasuke's case, the nine tomoe variant is a mistake. Every single other drawing of it, including its first appearance in the chapter you mentioned, WindStar, depicts six tomoe. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:04, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's why I'm curious if that will be fixed in volume release--Elveonora (talk) 20:02, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Ten Tailed Fox: That one panel was an extreme close-up that specifically focused on Sasuke's new Rinnegan, so it is in my opinion quite unlikely that the tomoe in the third circle was a drawing error. MJ (talk) 21:52, May 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * And that's why you're wrong. Just because its focused, doesn't mean anything. We've now seen three or four chapters with Sasuke's new Rinnegan and six tomoe has been displayed consistently in every singular instance of its appearance with the exception of that one. So, unless that is changed in the volume release, then, regardless of what you think, the nine tomoe variant is a drawing error. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:08, May 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * Get off your high horse. There's a reason I said it was my opinion. It being focused means that it is likely extra attention to detail was paid to his eye in that panel. 6 tomoe has never been consistently displayed in every singular instance. Or have you forgotten ch.674 where there were no tomoe present at all in some instances? In some panels, Sasuke's eye displays 4-5 tomoe (ch.676, pp8; ch.677, pp4), because his eyelids are only open enough to display some of the tomoe. As it stands, the only two instances where we got a clear enough display of all three circles, one had tomoe in the third circle, one had no tomoe at all. If I am wrong, which I obviously could be, then that's fine. Waiting for the Tankobon version is the ideal way to resolve this issue though. Any idea when that will be released? MJ (talk) 00:14, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

A volume consists of about 10 chapters, so soon.--Elveonora (talk) 10:20, May 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * A couple of months maybe? D.Phoenix (talk) 17:20, May 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * About so. The latest available volume at the moment was released May 2nd, the article on the last chapter of the volume was created March 12th, meaning it was published in Japan March 17th. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

We should add that sasuke and madara's Rinneganrare different in power and appearance.HagoromoOtsutsuki (talk) 22:11, May 26, 2014 (UTC)HagoromoOtustsuki

@Omnibender Thanks. Since there are only 6 tomoe on Madara's third eye in ch.678, I suppose that 9 tomoe appearing in Sasuke's eye can no longer be chalked up to a drawing error no? D.Phoenix (talk) 00:37, May 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elve-kun and Omni-sama: Volume 70 will be released on August 4, 2014 and probably it has 10 chapters (from 669 to 678). — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 00:41, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

still needs some updating
Since the forehead eye also is a Rinnegan, perhaps time for a variant section may be appropriate, not to mention Madara has it too, so the image description should be changed. Also what with the Shinju?--Elveonora (talk) 18:53, May 28, 2014 (UTC)


 * There is already a varient gallery on the page.
 * ....So do it.
 * Sure go ahead.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:00, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Wasn't a term "one-eyed Rinnegan" used in the manga? There was some debate about this, so perhaps that's how we should label the red Rinnegan. For the Shinju, that one needs a general consensus I think--Elveonora (talk) 12:46, May 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * The end of chapter 673 does use "片" to describe Sasuke's Rinnegan, but it seems the kanji is used to describe "one-sided" or "one of a pair", so even if it fits Sasuke's case, I don't believe it would be accurate to describe the forehead Rinnegan with that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:44, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

It's time too list the Shinju as a Rinnegan user
I feel like people have been avoiding this topic for a while now so it's time too settle it now that the third eye that Sasuke, Madara, Kaguya, and the Shinju all share has been confirmed multiple times over too be a Rinnegan the Shinju should be listed as a user of the Rinnegan.

I mean it's even referenced in the Rinnegan forms there's really no reason why the Shinju should be excluded if everyone who shares the same eye is listed as Rinnegan user.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 16:06, May 29, 2014 (UTC)

Bump--Elveonora (talk) 13:08, June 1, 2014 (UTC)

Well it looks like I was that people were avoiding this topic for whatever reason.

I'd still like too know why we aren't listing the Shinju isn't as a user here as everything so far supports his eye being a Rinnegan unless someone could provide some valid reasons as too why it shouldn't be listed.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 13:38, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Because...nobody...put it in? Pretty sure most stopped fighting that fight a few days ago. Someone just you know...has to put it in the article.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:19, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Oh good then we can add the Shinju as a Rinnegan user since it's obvious that it's eye is a Rinnegan I would do it myself but I don't have the slightest clue how too edit those template/info box things.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 16:16, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been listed. Although the history section states that Kaguya had it first. If the Shinju's eye indeed is a Rinnegan (because honestly, what else could it be at this point?) then we should state that it is the original user with first human (or so would it seem, save the horns and stuff) user was Kaguya. We should also differentiate between the red and purple Rinnegans. It indeed is true that Hagoromo was the first user of purple Rinnegan--Elveonora (talk) 16:23, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

The Shinju still needs too be added too the list of Known wielders in the info box. That should be changed the Shinju should be noted as the first known being too possess the Rinnegan and as for Kaguya we can state that she was the first known human to wield the Rinnegan.

There isn't any differences between the Red and Purple Rinnegan aside appearence and that the Infinite Tsukuyomi can only be cast with the Red Rinnegan.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 16:35, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * It should show up eventually. Don't know how the automated infobox stuff really works, but it should show up at some point.
 * As for getting the right version of the eye to appear, well that involves coding that I don't know.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:42, June 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Just click Null Edit from edit dropdown
 * I clicked it now which made it appear.--~Ultimate Supreme  17:10, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for being offtopic, but why is Zetsu listed as a wielder? Is it a remnant from when the WZ and Bz pages were merged?--Elveonora (talk) 18:22, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Something like that. Probably because Infobox:Zetsu still exists to preserve editing history. Worst case scenario, even if that were to be deleted, it would still be there. In either case, Zetsu showing up as its own entity in other infoboxes can be resolved by hiding it with the same way UltimateSupreme did away with Fire Release: Blast Wave Wild Dance showing up at MS infobox and Kamui infobox. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:52, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

The Tomoe are variable
From what we've seen in the manga, Sasuke loses tomoe from his Rinnegan upon casting techniques. When first seen, his eye had 9 tomoe, but later had 6, 3 or even none. The fact that Madara's third eye only had 6 tomoe after casting the Infinite Tsukuyomi lends credence to this hypothesis. I therefore think that Sasuke's eye and Madara's are the same thing. But obviously, we need to wait for a manga explanation before we go either way with this. Xfing (talk) 16:40, May 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think the one-eyed, red-tomoed Rinnegan lose or gain tomoe; I think it's just a drawing inconsistency. Remember that the Shinju (when initially revived as the Ten-Tails) had six tomoe in its eye every now and then? I also think Sasuke's and Madara's eyes are the same thing, given than both can activate and possibly deactivate the Infinite Tsukuyomi, respectively, but I can't persuade Ten-Tailed Fox that they are the same and have nine tomoe, so it's just a waiting game from here on out. WindStar7125 (talk) 17:26, May 31, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125


 * New person here :S but I have read plenty of talk pages about articles here so I got the gist of how these things go... I want to raise attention about something I noticed about Red Rinnegan. I disagree with WindStar and I don't want to call the different numbers of tomoe in a single eye "inconsistencies"; we haven't seen enough yet but I'm sure there's plenty of consistency in this (I have no idea why the Juubi displayed so many different numbers of tomoe though).


 * The most recognized examples so far are the Juubi and Sasuke, most notably Sasuke due to consistently losing tomoe right after he used his teleportation technique. Specifically I noticed that teleporting himself tends to "cost" 3 tomoe, teleporting one object "costs" 3 as well (for example when he did it to Madara and his own sword at the same time, he lost 6 tomoe), and there was the instance in which he teleported Madara to the spot between himself and Naruto which for some reason removed 6 tomoe from his eye. The lost tomoe all seem to re-appear shortly after.


 * Then Madara lost 3 tomoe after using Infinite Tsukuyomi. This is definitely not an inconsistency in drawing as more than one panel displayed his third eye having 6 tomoe. Even Kaguya lost 3 tomoe when she used the so-called "Space-Time Portal" technique - in chapter 681 "Kaguya's Tears" observe the page where she cries looking at Naruto and Sasuke. She has 6 tomoe (even at the beginning of the next chapter she still has not recovered the outermost 3 to complete 9). Personally I think this is confirmation of the "Space-Time Portal" being a Rinnegan technique.


 * Although the "Dimensional Shifting" is confirmed to be a Rinnegan technique anyway, after Kaguya "shifted" to the icy world she definitely doesn't have 9 tomoe in the bottom left panel. That being said, I admit that it's hard to see the eye's details in the panel I'm talking about. Sasuke also seems to have only 3 tomoe remaining after using that Amaterasu/Kagutsuchi combo. They re-appear by the time he is sent to the desert world.


 * I point this out because I believe it should at least be added to the Trivia section. Red Rinnegan seem to lose tomoe when they are used to cast techniques, but so far there doesn't seem to be any obvious side effect unless we assume that casting certain techniques require 3 tomoe to be present, in which case the side effect would be having a brief cool down period during which the techniques in question cannot be cast. EDIT: Provided that the number of tomoe hits 0 that is. Also I don't know whether a technique would remove exactly 3 tomoe or any other specific amount.

EDIT #2: For the Madara example I said "panels" but I meant "pages".Darumarcie (talk) 21:05, June 27, 2014 (UTC)Darumarcie

Does the Sharingan lose tomoe when it uses its various techniques and/or is over-exerted? No. You're not going to persuade anyone that the Rinnegan "lose tomoe" or whatever when they use techniques. Your "proof" that this notion is true due to panels that make mistakes isn't legitimate. When Sasuke was initially shown with his Rinnegan, it had six tomoe, then nine in the panel on the last page, and from there, it had six on a consistent basis. When the Ten-Tails was first shown, before being revived, it had nine tomoe, then six when it was initially revived, but it didn't use any techniques so how did it lose tomoe? I'm very tired of having to address this issue any longer. Like the rollbacks and sysops say about this problem, we'll wait for the volume cover to solve these inconsistencies. WindStar7125  (Talk) 21:20, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

Are we talking about Sharingan or about Red Rinnegan? Based on what are you calling the changing numbers of tomoe "inconsistencies"?* It's a fact that everyone who has that eye excluding the Juubi has lost tomoe immediately after using certain eye techniques. I'm not here to devalue your opinions or observations; I am simply providing my own opinion/observations while stating that I disagree with yours.

Go ahead and re-read the last few chapters paying close attention to every Red Rinnegan. You'll find that the nature of the "inconsistent" tomoe amounts is in fact very consistent. Again, discounting the Juubi's eye. If you're not open to this idea fine, that's your view. I'm more interested in the replies of people that are willing to entertain it.


 * EDIT: A better word would be "mistakes". Changing amount of tomoe is technically inconsistent in itself.Darumarcie (talk) 21:36, June 27, 2014 (UTC)Darumarcie

Just wait for the volume--Elveonora (talk) 21:50, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

^^^^^^^^Exactly. WindStar7125  (Talk) 00:39, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

The images that were created
for the one eyed rinnegan is wrong. it is exactly the same as the rinnegan, but red with tomoe. The lines are too thin. just change the rinnegans color to red and add the tomoe to it. then upload it and BAM you got the real one-eyed rinnegan. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 23:53, May 31, 2014 (UTC)

Is this what you wanted? You can thank this guy for it. WindStar7125  17:00, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not the one-eyed Rinnegan, though. Also, the lines are too thick. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:05, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

And what of the light purple Rinnegan? Those lines are just as "thick" as that image. WindStar7125  18:25, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * So? Sasuke's Rinnegan was depicted with thin lines. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:51, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Do the lines really matter? I mean, these are really just base images to illustrate the design (or so) of the dojutsu. Does the thickness of repeating lines really matter?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:52, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Edit conflict: If we are really arguing about the thickness of the lines in an .svg image, then by the Nine, I swear I will beat you all with a newspaper. Get over it and move on people. There are more important things to argue about elsewhere. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 18:54, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

First of all, where did you get the impression that this was an argument? I was asking Seel a genuine question, and he tells me that the purple had thick lines and Sasuke's had thin. That's all. Period and final. WindStar7125  19:00, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? Sure seems to me that three people are making a stink about the thickness of the lines in a damn .svg. Either way, you're right. It is over. Move on to something else. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 19:05, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Seel.. it wasn't drawn with thinner lines than purple Rinnegan, the lines were the same, and it was proven when Sasukes tomoe were removed in that page and his and Madaras Rinnegan looked exactly the same, and yes that looks pretty damn good windstar7125 I like it ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:45, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Ten-Tails. No one is arguing. but as shown when they were in the same manga page.. the rinnegans are the exactly the same minus the tomoe and color difference ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:47, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

I think both rinnegan images still need to be adjusted after looking at both side by side just now, but at least the one-eyed rinnegan looks better now than before ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:53, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

By the way, when I said "this guy," I meant Rafael Uchiha. I take NO credit for making the .svg image, he's the artist. WindStar7125  20:14, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke has 6 tomoe? What?
He had 9 tomoe when his Rinnengan in at least 1 panel of chapters 673, 674, 678, and 679 from what I know. He has also shown 6 tomoe, but not always, and since he has shown having 0 tomoe, and Madara & the Juubi have also shown having 6 tomoe multiple times, it means that the 6 & 0 tomoe on everyone is either an error, or the way their Rinnengan works for some reason. So, why is Sasuke having 6 tomoe is a fact? Patsoumas1995 (talk) 00:01, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Only had 9 tomoe the first time it showed, every time since then it was six, when it had tomoe at all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:04, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * I should point out that the only times it was shown with no tomoe are when the "colors" were inverted while he viewed the world of Madara's Limbo: Border Jail. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:05, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * There are a few panels in non-inverted colors too. Chapter 674 just above an inverted color in which he does have tomoe after hitting Madara's shadow. His last appearance in that same chapter (I think, the scans aren't very good). His first panel of 678 too. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:22, June 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara's third Rinnegan had 6 tomoe as well, after he had cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Kaguya's Rinnegan had 6 tomoe in one panel in ch. 680. D.Phoenix (talk) 01:36, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sasuke had 9 tomoe in some other chapters, though they weren't very clearly shown, you could see them there. And the Juubi, Madara, and Kaguya have also appeared with 6 tomoe. Not to mention that most of the time, we can't tell if Sasuke has 9 or 6 tomoe because his eyelids are in the way. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 20:42, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

How about we wait for the volume cover to address these tomoe inconsistencies? Is that such a bad idea? True, all with the tomoe Rinnegan have had either 6 or 9, but it's just a waiting game from here on out. WindStar7125 (Talk) WindStar7125 (talk) 21:30, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sasuke's Rinnegan was only shown with nine tomoe in one panel, every other time his eye is visible, it's either six tomoe or none, there are no panel where the eye lids are in the way. At most, there are panels he's too far away to see any detail even in his right Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * @ Omni, yes, there are panels where Sasuke's eye is not open completely. There are even panels where you can only see 3-5 tomoe because of this (e.g. ch. 675 pp 1). That said, I also now believe Sasuke's eye is supposed to have 6, because there have been more panels where we could see that there were no tomoe in the third circle.D.Phoenix (talk) 22:25, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I doubt it is an inconsistency at this point. The Sharingan has already shown a varying number of tomoes, which depends on mastery. Maybe the Sharingan-esque Rinnegan is similar, at least as far as the varying number of tomoe goes. D.Phoenix (talk) 22:25, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * But with the Sharingan, it's a known fact, and the tomoe don't change numbers between chapters, like the Ten-Tails eye does, and it never goes down in number like Sasuke's and Madara's eye have done. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:00, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra points?

 * I don't think the Rinnegan can actually see chakra points, it just saw the chakra from the 8 gates, the hearts pressure point. It should also be noted that he only saw the chakra after it was opened by the gates which release a tremendous amount of chakra--Deathmailrock (talk) 03:50, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's likely any dojutsu could see the heart's tenketsu if all of the body's chakra was flowing into it. In the panels depicting Madara using the Rinnegan to see Guy's chakra, we only see the Eight Gates' tenketsu, not the entire system like the Byakugan sees.--BeyondRed (talk) 04:04, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * But the article makes it seem like the Rinnegan can see the system like the Byakugan though...--Deathmailrock (talk) 04:20, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those 8 chakra points are still chakra points, so even though it can't see them all, the main ones can be seen with the Rinnegan--Elveonora (talk) 13:15, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Shinju has 12

 * The Shinju has at the least 12 tomoe though (cause there are some behind the eye lid; Kaguya's eye might also be the same; it could only look like 9 when you see it from the front)--Deathmailrock (talk) 04:22, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nope. It was only shown with 12 once. We've seen the eye from many angles, enough to know that most of the times it was shown with six, and a few times with 9. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:16, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

tomoes' & centers' sizes
so I've been wondering about the reason why The Shinju, Kaguya and Madara's Rinnegans' tomoes are smaller than their circles & sasuke's larger...cuz I'm sure in both forms the tomoes & centers are almost the same size...exactly like sharingan...I'm saiyng this based on the latest chapters where madara, kaguya & even sasuke's rinnegans have been shown like this...a great example would be the panels from 682...I think the only difference is that sasuke's has 6 tomoe (if not 9) & Shinju, Kaguya and Madara's 9...my suggestion would be that the rinnegan icon or model should be based on sharingan's...just add another layer of tomoe...any thoughts? --DARK ZER06 (talk) 09:14, June 25, 2014 (UTC) or you can combine sasuke's tomoes with the other 3's centers... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 08:22, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

bump... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 19:36, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

You are welcome to make an updated image--Elveonora (talk) 20:08, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

i donno how :D I was just explaining my idea & was checking if anybody actually agrees with me... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 20:16, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course I do, there simply isn't anyone willing to correct that. Perhaps most don't see it to be an issue at all. I mean, it's just slightly bigger.--Elveonora (talk) 20:25, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Red Tomoe Rinnegan's abilities
So far, we can agree that both red tomoe Rinnegan allow users to use the powers of the Sharingan in conjunction with the eye (unlike Madara's dual Rinnegan, which required him to switch to his EMS) and teleport (Sasuke on a smaller scale, Kaguya on a much larger scale), right? WindStar7125  19:13, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not surprising considering Hagoromo's "power of Sharingan" regarding Kaguya's Rinnegan ;)--Elveonora (talk) 19:28, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

You must be real happy after winning that battle vs Foxie... ;). Anyway, I'm leaning toward putting what I just said in the article. Any objections? WindStar7125   19:42, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well Sasuke has shown definitive proof of your statement, but we have no idea if Kaguya's technique(s) are linked the Sharingan or Rinnegan. Hell, I have no idea if the third eye can even cast Sharingan techniques. Just to be safe, only mention Sasuke's eye, since his IS different to all the other tomoe Rinnegan we've seen (6 tomoe, not 9).--Atrix471 (talk) 19:47, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

In the recent chapter, @Atrix, it was shown that Kaguya's Rinnegan was what was teleporting everyone to different sceneries (this is also mentioned in her article), and Hagoromo said she had the power of the Sharingan, and yes, Sasuke's IS different, that's why I said "both" in my first statement. WindStar7125  20:01, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure, Sasuke"s teleportation may actually be a nerfed version of her reality manipulation, so I wouldn't say they are that different yet, until the manga itself makes a clear distinction between them--Elveonora (talk) 20:07, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Regardless, this doesn't prove by any stretch of the imagination that all tomoe Rinnegan can use Sharingan techniques, since I'm 99% sure that Sasuke's teleportation ability is a Rinnegan-based technique. Besides, teleporting yourself and others/objects within a certain radius doesn't seem at all related to this, but as you said we may as well wait until we receive confirmation. Atrix471 (talk) 20:15, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

One: I never said the teleportation technique was a Sharingan technique, I know it's from the Rinnegan. Don't get it twisted. Two: I am going based off what the manga said - Hagoromo stated she had the powers of the Sharingan, this wiki assumed those powers resided in her Rinnegan. The recent chapter showed her teleportation technique is from her Rinnegan. All I am doing is noting the similarities between her Rinnegan and Sasuke's. That's all. Both red tomoe Rinnegan can use the powers of the Sharingan, as stated by Hagoromo himself, Kaguya's article and shown by Sasuke. Both also allow teleportation, for example, Sasuke can teleport within himself and objects in his range the same dimension, Kaguya can teleport herself and others in her range through different dimensions, as stated in your link @Atrix. I'll reiterate what I've said: All I am saying is that both red tomoe Rinnegan can use the power of the Sharingan and teleport. That's it. WindStar7125  (Talk) 20:49, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll concede on the Sharingan power thing. The teleportation thing is just a theory, the tomoe Rinnegan (or the Rinnegan in general) could have user-specific abilities just like the Mangekyō Sharingan, so Kaguya and Sasuke could just so happen to both have teleportation abilities. At the moment, teleportation in ALL users seems a little speculative, but if it helps I will agree that all tomoe Rinnegan have Sharingan-like abilities. Atrix471 (talk) 21:03, June 25, 2014 (UTC)