Talk:Sage Transformation

Senjutsu?
I have a slight issue/slightly confused on the matter. I know Jūgo's clan uses natural energy and all but is it right to classify what they do as Senjutsu o.O--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:47, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't seem like any of them actually controlled the energy so it's probably not classifiable as Senjutsu. TricksterKing (talk) 12:05, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call it senjutsu. Senjutsu is what happens when you have senjutsu chakra, which requires a minimum of balance between the three energies. Jūgo and his clan were never said to balance those three energies. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:38, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * But Orochimaru's cursed seals use senjutsu chakra, why wouldn't Jugo? And unbalanced natural energy turns people into stone.

On another note, anyone else notice that Jiraiya's unbalancing of senjutsu chakra in parts of his body to make himself toad-like is similar to sage transformation? Also, when Jugo was talking about orochimaru taking his power from kabuto, he referred to kabuto's sage mode as sage transformation (in mangastream translation, someone please check if this is accurate), which leads me to believe they are one and the same, with the exception of it being a kekkei genkai. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:33, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru applied his own senjutsu chakra to the seal, and you only turn to stone if while taking in the natural energy, you can't handle it and it overwhelms you. From what I understood, Sage Transformation is due to passive absorption of natural energy. However, because Jūgo can't balance it, it causes the transformations. Kabuto used that ability to make it easier to absorb natural energy, but he was able to balance it with his chakra, creating senjutsu chakra, thus entering a true Sage Mode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:13, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Nothing special
I don't think this is worth an extra article. The term just describes what Naruto and all the others are doing when they gather natural energy. Seelentau 愛議 14:08, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * But getting rid of this article would mean we'd have nothing to list Jūgo as a user of. For me, this lists the passive absorption of natural energy, which isn't the case with true Sages. Kabuto did this, but unlike Jūgo's clan, he was able to balance the three energies to enter in a true Sage Mode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:38, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

Kabuto?
Why is he listed as a user, he has Sage Mode 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 11:13, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering that too. Mabye they thought thats why kabuto had the scales and navel snake. It kinda makes sense though, cause he gained the ability to passivley absorb senjutsu chakra.71.71.58.236 (talk) 11:40, July 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * I thought it was because he also intigrated Jugo's DNA into him, allowing him to also passively absorb natural energy. Maybe I am mistaken about that? Joshbl56  11:48, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

But Sage Transformation isn't the ability to passively absorb Natural Energy, this one is the state/transformation that's a result of that. We should create an article for "Jugo Clan's unnamed Kekkei Genkai" to avoid confusion.--Elveonora (talk) 12:05, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

i think we should do a vote with the other users before doing so. i personally am against it because we know way too little about this.71.71.58.236 (talk) 12:12, July 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

"Sage Transformation" is cleary Jugo and his clan absorbing natural energies due to their KKG, the energy affecting an enzyme somehow thus triggering their transformation and rage/madness. Thus the ability to absorb natural energy and to transform are 2 different things, Kabuto has/had the former while never used the latter--Elveonora (talk) 12:19, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

But as I checked ,the chapter says "sage transformation" has been released, that would indicate that Kabuto's mutated form was not only due to Orochimaru's DNA but also Jugo's, and by Oro absorbing Senjutsu chakra and somehow his own DNA as well, Kabuto turned normal. That would explain why even though according to the popular belief he is a perfect sage, had a physical transformation, he was a "dragon" due to Jugo's enzyme mutating him further or something.--Elveonora (talk) 12:52, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

ohhhhhh, and when juugo said to suigetsu that oro didnt suck kabuto's chakra out he just removed his own which would explain why kabutos mutated form was reversed.71.71.58.236 (talk) 13:25, July 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

From what I understood, Kabuto used the ability of Jūgo's clan in order to passively absorb natural energy, but unlike the clan, he managed to balance it with his own chakra, creagint senjutsu chakra, achieving Sage Mode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:12, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Omni, yes. But Sage Transformation isn't the clan's KKG. This is a state that's a result of their power to absorb the energy, not the power itself.--Elveonora (talk) 21:05, July 13, 2012 (UTC)