Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34656247-20181008062436/@comment-34194151-20181013185027

@LegionZero

you are literally focusing on lexical choices. when a user creates a clone, there are two shadow clones, one is the orignial, one is the decoy. why is this hard to understand?

Lol no, except kurenai and asuma would have seen itachi coming out of the water from behind kakashi. they literally would have seen him get up out of the water. That didn't happen. kurenai simply saw itachi appear behind kakashi, and called it jutsu speed. Your substiution counterargument doesn't add up, because we have literally seen kakashi swap places with a naruto clone in an instant. Subsitution according to you is high speed movement used to dupe both the reader and some of the combatants. kakashi could track itachi's substitution because he has a sharingan, it's that simple. Itachi spawned the clone behind kakashi and stabbed kakashi's water clone in the back. then when kakashi was swimming under water he substituted. It's that simple. kurenai simply missed the substitution. it's too fast for her to see. Your theory still doesn't make sense. According to you, shadow clones only form next to the user. so where was that shadow clone? where was the real itachi? when did itachi jump into the water? when did he do this without any noticing? There is literally only one panel of time between kurenai being tossed into the water and itachi appearing next to her, and then kakashi appearing next to them, yet I'm supposed to believe kakashi didn't see this, when he was obviously watching everything go down from a distance before he got close. You are trapped at this point the way I am currently seeing it. either concede to my theory that he spawned the clone and substituted with it, or admit itachi is extremely skilled in deceiving the people around him and swapping himself out with clones in short intervals of time. either way, it's a concession. Itachi is getting behind naraka. my underwater point was to debunk the idea that kakashi couldn't see itachi's substitution while he was swimming underneath him.

Lol no, except we see itachi intercepting kabuto's running speed TWICE. It's like you are purely relying on headcanon at this point for whatever reason. I can't fathom why. Oh look chapter 581 pg 7. Itachi tracks kabuto's running speed. itachi dashes away from sasuke, meeting kabuto half way. blocks kabuto's chakra scapel. then they both jump away. Where was kabuto's speed blitz then exactly? Oh look chapter 586 pg 14. itachi does the same thing again. where was kabuto's speed blitz exactly? You literally resort to one panel where itachi was caught off guard. he completely let his guard down, the proof is that he turned off susano'o. At that point, even konohamaru could have killed him with a surprise attack. I would agree with you if we didn't obviously see itachi reacting to and matching kabuto's speed multiple times. Itachi is clearly faster than most of the perfect sages, and sage mode naruto was giving pain a run for his money with his speed.

Smh, how many times have I explained that Itachi at minimum reads two moves ahead? This is a strawman, because using diversions is what defines the guy. You forget that he needs to replicate the same exact actions in order for izanami to work. You tried to downplay it before, not sure if your opinion has changed, but he is literally at minimum as smart as shikamaru. Shikamaru told tayuya, the "first step is the fake out, the second attack is the real attack" We literally see itachi doing that while not even going for the kill. While jobbing, he has shown the ability to use up to two fake outs before initiating his real attack ( shuriken, water style, attack, bunshin feint against kakashi, and then adapts accordingly). Itachi did the same thing to kabuto, the crow bunshin or subsitution is the fake out, cutting off kabuto's horn is the real attack. Itachi is also literally as smart as minato. Minato's rasengan was the fake out against obito, but teleporting to the kunai for FTG level 2 was the real attack. both of these shinobi plan two steps ahead perfectly to counter their opponent. Minato and itachi had almost the same scores in the chunin written exams. both of these shinobi have been known for their wisdom and intellect, both in feats, and in comments from both enemies and allies alike. no amount of downplaying is changing that. It's obvious that itachi and minato were portrayed to be the pinnacle of intellect and strategy and hax in battle, itachi's hax being totsuka and yata mirror, and minato's being FTG. They are clearly at best a half tier below hashirama and madara, who are the pinnacle of battle experience and power. Itachi and minato should be in the same tier with nagato and tobirama, and prime hiruzen. but then there are matchup advantages. and depending on the stipulations, itachi can potentially defeat EMS madara depending on totsuka blade's hype, and hashirama 1v1, while I'm fairly certain minato has a chance to take out EMS madara 1v1. The reason itachi didn't do a simple kick is because kabuto isn't guaranteed to do the same attack or reaction twice. it's obvious itachi did the bunshin feint because he knew kabuto would react to it the same way EVERY SINGLE time. Kabuto was clearly disoriented by the crows it was literally the best way to ensure izanami goes off.

And lol, kakashi was "keeping up" in part one as well. he obviously reacted to the water style, and had time to make a bunshin while he was protected by the water wall. ITachi still was able to cast more handsigns and sheath shuriken before kakashi could blink. If itachi wanted to, he could have thrown the shurikens and disrupt kakashi's handsigns. He literally stopped making jutsu after he made the shuriken. he was very clearly faster. Kakashi knows it too, he said itachi wasn't even showing his full power there. in part two, itachi easily reacted to his attack, grabbed his arm, and though kakashi dodged his punch, itachi easily grabbed the back of kakashi's head. nothing at all says kakashi matched him in speed. Itachi was obviously jobbing in that fight even harder than he was in Part one.

You also seemed to imply itachi couldn't track killer bee's speed in cloaked forms. the only cloaked form itachi would have trouble with is v2. killer bee runs in a straight line, making the sharingan having an easier time tracking. Itachi went easy on killer bee. he didn't use susano'o, he didn't use tsykuyomi, and was giving killer bee hints. Itachi only busted out the mangeyko because he realized that if the fight continued, nagato and himself would end up stomping bee and naruto. nagato himself already showed he can solo both killer bee and kcm naruto who doesn't have access to clones. Adding in itachi makes it a mega stomp. Itachi clearly stated he wanted to test if his koto amatsukami contingency was in place, so that's why he activated mangeyko, and to this relief, naruto's crow came out and broke itachi free. If itachi was serious against bee, bee already lost to tsykuyomi in that fight. 7 sword style was already countered. v1 isn't quite enough to pressure itachi enough if sasuke could react to that speed. V2 might do it, but at that point susano'o walls bee hard. full bijuu mode is the only issue if itachi can't go for the kill by sealing hachibi away. at that point, he still can catch bee in tsyukyomi. Base bee can arguably be taken out by an exploding shadow clone feint.

I seriously, seriously, doubt that the raikiri makes you faster than lightning in running speed. Kakazu, after being "killed", got back up, ran in front of kakashi as kakashi was running towards hidan with raikiri, then swatted kakashi away like a fly. so now we are saying kakazu is 100 times faster than the speed of sound. Shikamaru evaded kakazu's attack before, so now shikamaru is a lightning timer too? It doesn't make sense. Even if kirin is faster than lightning timer, that was the only lightning jutsu said to be undodgeable. all other raiton techniques don't get that feat in my opinion. If the jutsu's area of effect is unavoiable why did sasuke and zetsu not get hit? Why did zetsu specifically say the jutsu is unavoidable while referencing it hits the ground in 1/1000th of a second???? lightning is simply charged particles moving in an electromagnetic field so fast they release light. not all lightning moves at the same speed, that is purely dependent on the strength of the field force, or in the case of ninja, there skill with using lightning manipulation. thunderstorms cause a massive shift in charge distribution and create an extremely large electric field between clouds and the ground.