Talk:Blaze Release

What?
Was is this supposed to be exactly? New element or simply batsh*t crazy powerful Katon? I did see somewhere that the "En" character is made up of two "fire" characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:16, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe it's what the element of Amaterasu is.--Rikudou Geass (talk) 15:19, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * If I had to define it, I would say that it's the result of something like an advanced nature recomposition made with a single element, kinda like trying to force it being stronger. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:27, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Just a thought, i think this is a combination of Fire release and Lightning Release.

I was thinking that it could be a combination.

18:39, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Although possible, it's not confirmed from any source yet. How about waiting a while until it is a confirmed case of not, no? --NejiByakugan360 18:48, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Thats reasonable.

Sting! TenRyuoh!


 * At the moment, there are two possibilities for Blaze Technique:
 * It's an advanced element, created by mixing two basic elements. In this case, the most logical combination would be Fire and Lightning;
 * It's an advanced version of Fire Release.
 * I'd go with the second option myself. refers to a very strong, very hot fire. --ShounenSuki (talk 19:58, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Oh ok. Agreed :). --NejiByakugan360 20:14, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I go with that as well, other than the Yonbi's Youton, a kekkei genkai is necessary to mix two elements into a new one. Sharingan isn't an element mixing kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Guess thats the only thing we can go on until it's revealed.

Sting! TenRyuoh! 20:29, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I strongly disagree, it can't be anything to do with fire, it is clearly Amaterasu flames that he uses for the technique. It is likely that after the battle with Sauske and Killerbee (which is where he first really used Amaterasu with his own eyes), it is likely that he discovered something new about Amaterasu, possibly that it really is an elemental technique, referred for now as the Blaze element, and learned how to control this element, explaining why Sauske was much more skilled with the Amaterasu flames than Itachi was, because Itachi might have not discovered this secret about Amaterasu. Of course this is speculation, but it is likely that the "Blaze" element is really an element that has to do with Amaterasu.

Blaze realese does hav mostly to do with amaterasu but like he said balze is a really hot fire and lightning is 5xs hotter than fire so wouldnt amaterasus flames and his lightning realese combined would be blaze?


 * So I figured out a little something about what Blaze Release might be. Lightning that strikes ground causes a large, very hot and very harmful fire that spreads in a violent maneuver, usually called a Blaze. Maybe that works out? Just a little suggestion. --NejiByakugan360 21:07, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Except "Blaze" is an english word, not a Japanese one, and "blazes" like the ones you described are not referred to with this kanji in Japan. Suigetsu Namikaze ( T | C ) 03:07, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Amaterasu
Quick thought: Should Amaterasu be counted as a Blaze Release, since it's the cornerstone of the "nature"? I think the Amaterasu page should have it's nature icon switched from the Flame Release to the Blaze Release, and maybe add Amaterasu to the list of Blaze Release jutsu and add it to the Blaze Release category. AnimeNikkaJamal (talk) 07:19, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

Um, I'd say add the Blaze Release to Amaterasu, but do not get rid of Flame Release unless Amaterasu is confirmed to be Blaze Release. Flashfire   Master of   Flames  07:25, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the blaze release take to fire elements to make it because if you look at the blaze icon it is just two fire icon stacked on top of each other

I think that amaterasu, the fire, is a blaze release... while amaterasu, the blaze release from the eyes, is what we have all previously called 'amaterasu'. later in chapter 464, when gaara attacks, sasuke shoots just a plain old blob of amaterasu fire at the sand and says 'i cant believe i had to use an enton to defend' or something like that. i don't see how 'enton' could be him doing something special with amaterasu's flames, when he calls this an enton and is simply shooting a generic blast of amaterasu flames out, same as itachi had done. i also don't see how it is possible that enton could be 'amaterasu when shape manipulation is added', because then the razen shuriken would be an 'advanced element'... it would have to be that amaterasu itself is either just a generic name for the advanced nature type (like how the actual nature of the other advanced nature types have different names than their actual release) and that when the advanced nature type is used in an actual jutsu, it is then called enton... or that amaterasu is simply the use of the eye technique used to create the enton flames period...

Blaze Release is a Powerful Fire Release
I think that blaze style is a more powerful and advanced version of the fire style...by advanced i dont mean that it's composed of 2 elements but that it's a much more powerful, maybe more hotter, and variation (dats the word i was looking for) of the fire style...tell me wat u guys think--Moiz1224 (talk) 03:26, September 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * since he is useing ameruestu it would be considered an advance form of fire realese but like wat i said lightning is 5 or 10xs hotter then fire so i still think he uses his lighning style with the flames of ameruestu.


 * You're rather overgeneralising there. Lightning can be up to 30.000°C. Fire however can be any sort of temperature, depending on what is burned and how. Amaterasu is said to be as hot as the Sun, though, which could make it anywhere between 5510°C and 1.000.000°C. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:05, September 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * The sun is composed of plasma (same thing lightning is composed of) and combustion (what fire is). If the ability is said to be as hot as the sun, then it would have to be free-flowing plasma and combustion, so 'enton' would be lightning and fire combined.
 * I hope you know that fire is also plasma. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:23, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * ? No it's not... fire is the exothermic chemical reaction of combustion, taking place when oxygen combines with hydrogen. Plasma is an actual state of matter.  They arn't even the same type of thing.  Fire is a reaction, plasma is a state of matter.
 * Fire and lightning are both made of plasma, which is something like ionized gases. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:38, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

so whats it going to be, an advance form of fire realese or lightning realese combined with fire realses. i vote for fire and lightning. what bout u guys
 * I say, wait with speculating until the manga or a data book clears it out. Jacce | Talk 19:34, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

well, there is fire-lightning, fire-wind, and fire-water available... the last dosn't make any sense, so i'd go with one of the first 2 combos, given he is lightning nature it would make somewhat sense, but he did use the enton to make pointy spike things so could be wind

I believe the Mizukage's Youton is a fire water combo making acid, a water which burns. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:46, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I still think they are exactly the same thing, and just not how we imagined it would be. I'm leaning towards fire/wind, since it seems like it has some form of mass to it, and lightning/fire would (in the naruto world) have no mass to it--SkyFlicker (talk) 19:19, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Mangekyo Sharingan
What if Itachis Mangekyo Sharingan didn't just give him Amateratsu but the ability to use Enton and didn't relize it. But sasuke reliazed the full potentiel.--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 19:54, October 18, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan

I think that you are partially correct. What i think is kinda going with a discussion with Susanoo as well but belongs here. Sauske said in the manga that one who masters both of his eyes with the mangekyo sharingan is able to use Susanoo. Where im getting at is, you dont have to master it to get susanoo, you just have to be able to use it. I think that Itachi mastered tyskuayomi and Sauske mastered the Blaze element and was able to expand from amaterasu. I do not think it is a combination of elements, i think it is just mastery of amaterasu, and sauske has mastered it like ithachi mastered tyskuayomi. --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 02:08, October 26, 2009 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

Fire
Isn't it kind of confirmed that fire is related somehow, especially considering the fact that amaterasu is a fire release technique? 24.45.20.86 (talk) 23:57, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

It depends, i personally don't believe amaterasu should be listed as a fire release even though it is "fire" because it is not normal fire for fire release and it is only used with the Mangeyko Sharingan, and should be listed as a Kekki Genkai. I think personally that Amaterasu is Blaze elemented and that you get blaze release as one of the 3 things of the mangeyko Sharingan --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 02:33, November 25, 2009 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze


 * Amaterasu is Fire Release. The databook has stated it to be the "highest-level Fire Release." So therefore, it is a Fire Release only available to Mangekyō users.--GoDai (talk) 07:16, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Uchiha
Since this seems unique to the Mangekyō Sharingan, shouldn't we add the Uchiha, Sharingan and Mangekyō Sharigan icons to this? They all seem to be required to use this. Something similar was done to Ice Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:41, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Viz
Due to recent changes do this page, am I to assume that Viz called this "Inferno Style" or something similar? More than once I've seen people changing Blaze to Inferno recently, and not only in this page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:06, February 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes in the Viz Manga Blaze Release is Inferno Style

Another Blaze ability?
On this page of manga where Sauske starts battling with Gaara after fighting the Raikage, he says that he had to defend himself with a enton (Blaze) Could this mean:

1...He has another Blaze ability 2...did he just use Amaterasu, which would prove wut ive thought that Amaterasu is a Blaze jutsu 3...is this a wrong translation, did he not say enton and just use an Amaterasu, not proving anything 4...maybe something else? IDK

Here's the Page (second to last picture):

--Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:44, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

It's a bad translation, I believe the correct one was something like "to think you defended yourself even against my enton". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:08, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

but that still means that he used enton, does he just mean basically you defended against my amaterasu, cause then it would confirm wut i think that amaterasu is really an enton --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:55, May 4, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

The technique Amaterasu "summons" (or simply saying, creates) the flames of Amaterasu thorugh one eye (left in Sasuke's case), while Blaze Release, Enton, manipulates already-exisiting Amaterasu flames by modification through the other eye (right in Sasuke's case). At least that's what I've put together so far. It should also be noted that after a Blaze Release is used, the flames used return to their original, freely burning states, so we have no idea what the "Enton" technique he was talking about, since he might have not been talking about the bolt of Amaterasu that seemed to be thrown at Gaara. That one might have been Amaterasu, or some other technique that forces already-burning Amaterasu flames to be shot at the enemy or something. Can't really speculate that deeply with what we have. --GoDai (talk) 07:15, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, only i think that not every advanced nature need a combination of two elements, and i think that Blaze is just an advanced nature and amaterasu being a blaze jutsu, thats just my opinion, but what u said i agree with --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

"Users"
Since Sasuke is the only one who uses Blaze Relase, is there any point to the list of users? Fangzntalonz (talk) 03:59, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's kinda the standard template of the page. All other advanced natures have one to three users. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:19, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Credibility?
1. It is said that the black flames of the ameratsu is the strongest fire jutsu. This "Blaze Release" is saying that it's a different jutsu that uses the same black flames. That doesn's sound right. 2. When he extinguished the black flames from Kirin and Killer Bee, it showed that Sasuke experienced extreme pain in his eyes after doing such. That is evidence alone that this "Blaze Release", being described as controling the black flames, is nothing more than Sasuke's grand talent in the Mangekyo Sharingan. 3. The uchiha clan was a clan that thrived on war, if they contained such a kekkei genkai of mass proportions and didn't realize it, then how could Sasuke have in the heat of battle. With all, if not almost all, kekkei genkai are noticed and exploited for the ninja's use sooner in life than the mid to late teens (EX. Haku discovering around the age of 8). 4. If this was a bloodline limit, then why didn't sasuke learn about it or figure it out before the ameratsu? 5. Other bloodlines don't follow the nature of one of the two elements. Ice isn't water, or wind. Wood isn't earth, or water. Storm isn't lightning, or water. Although, it's more of lighting moving in the manner of water, making it mutualistic. Lava isn't earth, or fire. Boil(boiling mist) isn't fire, or water. "Blaze" only resembles fire. There is no atribute that would make it lighting. The key point of the fire is the flames produced, and controled, by the Ameratsu.

This is simply great mastery of the sharingan, for it has no resemblance to a bloodline limit, while containing the sharingan's abilities.

--Komikale (talk) 01:06, March 6, 2011 (UTC)Mikale koe

Blaze Release is a very unusual way, and to this day makes us scratch our heads. Given how little we know about it, all we could do is use what we already know about chakra natures. My guess in particular is that Blaze Release is Fire Release being modified by Yin Release, which might not actually be a kekkei genkai at all, given how Yin and Yang seem to be the basis of all so far non-elemental ninjutsu. About your points:
 * 1) Blaze Release so far has shown to be controlling and manipulating the flames in ways Amaterasu was never shown to be used.
 * 2) Putting out the flames might be Blaze Release, we don't know. Sasuke did that way before we could ever think something like Blaze Release would come along. As per the previous point, Blaze Release seems to be about a precise manipulation of the flames. Sasuke had also just discovered he could do that, plus later on he got his hate on, so that must count for something. Blaze Release could be to Mangekyō what Mangekyō is to the regular Sharingan.
 * 3) There are very few known people who awakened the Mangekyō Sharingan. Haku doing the water controlling was anime-only, that doesn't count. For all we know from the manga, the first time he actually used his kekkei genkai was when he killed his father.
 * 4) Considering what Blaze Release appears to be, it is about manipulating the flames. It's something even Itachi didn't do. Of course we would have to learn Amaterasu before using Blaze Release. What you're suggesting is akin to Naruto learning Rasenshuriken before Rasengan.
 * 5) The fact Blaze Release is so dissimilar to other advanced natures, and the fact it appears to come from a dōjutsu is what causes the afore-mentioned head scratching. We're not saying that Blaze is fire and lightning, and if you're talking about the image in the nature transformation page, it's just there because we had pick a spot for it to be, and fire and lightning were, according to the established "two elements into one" rule, the least speculative choice, and the fact it has a question mark denotes that it is a speculation, a guess. Ice is technically solid water. Lava is technically molten earth. Mist is technically water particles in the air.

As mentioned, Blaze Release is highly unusual, considering previously established rules for nature transformation, so until the next databook or more manga exposition, we work with what we have. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:23, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

The main summary of your information is that it's a greater mangekyo manipulation. Since ameratsu was already described being the strongest fire-style ability, it is above all others without use of ying or yang. For the bloodline limits you mentioned, they're a combination of the two elements, not claiming all the abilities of one. The point of my involvement on this is to try to have it removed from kekkei genkai because it does not associate as one. I will be okay if it becomes a mangakyo ability that controls the fire, but I am putting up this argument that it does not associate with the bloodlines it is listed with. --Komikale (talk) 01:37, March 6, 2011 (UTC)mikale

There are, in my opinion, two reasons why Blaze Release is listed as a kekkei genkai:
 * 1) So far, it was only shown to manipulate Amaterasu, which is a kekkei genkai ninjutsu. It's not as if Sasuke had used it the manipulate another Fire Release technique. It was used with his Mangekyō Sharingan, the left eye if I'm not mistaken, so a kekkei genkai is necessary to use it.
 * 2) The mechanics of nature transformation so far says that if an element isn't one of the basic five, it is an advanced one, formed by merging of two or more elements. Such a thing can only be achieved by having a proper bloodline, or by having the ability to come from a tailed beast.

Even if it turns out not to be a kekkei genkai, at the moment, there are more things suggesting it is one than there are things suggesting it's not. Regardless, should it be revealed not to be a kekkei genkai, it'll be changed accordingly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:47, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

But, in the context of a doujutsu having relations to the visual aspects, Sasuke's pain after it can only mean that it is nothing more than an advancement on the ameratsu, in which ameratsu was declared the strongest "fire-element" jutsu.

Also, in the point of view of the writter, why would he make a bloodline limit that is completely unheard of until Sasuke when Itachi wasn't able to do so. If it was a bloodline, Itachi should be able to use it. The argument you could make there is that Itachi didn't inherit it though. Back to the main point, the writer making a new kekkei genkai that would depend solely on someone gaining an extreme state, the mangekyo sharingan, before being able to use such ability is somewhat obsurd. I don't beilive anyone would stand for something that iffy.

In the spirit of the kekkei genkai being combined elements, it would also be obsurd assuming that a comination fire-lightning element would only burn and engulf, having no attribute twords lightning.

We're no Kishimoto, we don't know what he means, or what the purpose of this is. As I said previously, nothing in this article suggests that Blaze Release is a combination of fire and lightning. The one thing which does that in the entire wiki is the image, and again, there is a question mark showing that it's a speculation, the icon being added there solely for the purpose of being there, instead of, say wind and lightning. All information regarding Blaze Release is written based on everything the manga has ever said, and will continue to be so as more information is divulged. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:54, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

No, we're not, but he is the rational source behind the story so he wouldn't make any irrational facts about such strong jutsu that wouldn't follow the rules he has displayed. This article does not display it being a combination, but this site shows that's how it is. I don't agree with that last statement. I find that there has been more than enough information twords this just being an expansion of the mangakyo sharingan and that this element is useless to have, due to the fact it's just fire ability and doujutsu.--Komikale (talk) 03:22, March 6, 2011 (UTC)mikale

Then until more information becomes available, we'll agree to disagree. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:33, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

I can handle to let go and agree with that. --Komikale (talk) 03:35, March 6, 2011 (UTC)mikale

two points
one: is this based on something from one of the fan books, and if so could someone put a reference there because it seems like all he did was learn how to manipulate the black flames and everyone just started calling it some new type of special release/nature.

two: for all the people arguing over what natures are included here, but the only thing I've seen is that it says he uses his other eye to manipulate the flames. So wouldn't that sort of shine a better light on how it's done, the fact he's using the eye that controls illusions to do it, rather than one very long page speculating about is it fire plus fire or fire plus lightning? I mean one of lightning thing is just weird, and fire plus fire is just... fire. But even the brief discription here seems to be largely speculative while presenting itself as affermative, saying we just don't know what nature is involved. It's the same black flames, he can just control them. Reading the article though, you wouldn't know that. It comes across like it's some great new nature manipulation that we just don't know anything about yet. I don't know where any of that came from, unless you want to consider the black flames nature manipulation to begin with. But frankly, since the sharingan abilities seem to almost all revolve around illusion and bridging the gap between illusion and reality, MY money's on the black flames and this being exactly the same. It's got more to do with genjutsu than fire. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 11:21, April 22, 2011 (UTC) miah


 * one: Sasuke himself called it "Enton" or "blaze release"
 * two:I don't remember anyone speculating the natures in the articles at least we don't do that. If it's there now it's vandalism. We don't know the mechanic of the technique so we can only add what we know for now
 * three: tl;dr.--Cerez365™☺ 11:26, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

As far as speculating I was mostly talking about this talk page, but wouldn't the enton label apply to amaterasu in general, not just being able to manipulate/shape it? I mean that's like saying because kakashi's dog lightning thing is really shaped differently it's not lightning. It's still the same thing, he's just manipulating it so to be more specific I should say I take issue with calling simply the manipulation of amaterasu blaze release with no mention of it on the amaterasu page.

Even looking at the article though, I do think it's a bit over speculative: "Blaze Release... is an advanced chakra nature... It is unknown what this nature entails." And mostly because this is refering specifically to the manipulation of amaterasu, I think that bothers me. I would rather see this merged with amaterasu in general, with a mention of sasuke's ability to manipulate the flames using his other eye. Mostly because, manipulating an element doesn't make it another element, does it? I don't see the logic in calling it a new element just because he can shape and manipulate the flames when the flames themselves substance-wise don't seem to have changed at all. They're still the same black flames.

I did forget about that quick mention though, and I've not seen the anime episode where he says that, but at least in the manga I don't remember it actually showing him manipulating the flames, it just showed the flames on the sand afterward. Even looking at it again, I'd assume he was refering to amaterasu in general. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 12:25, April 22, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * Friend, unless you have an issue with the two sentences that comprises the article, fine. Otherwise, this isn't a form. Also,please write less, no one is going to read that epistle.--Cerez365™☺ 13:03, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

1. I did criticize the article, it's about 80% of what I wrote. so obviously when you say no one will read it, you mean you're not going to read it. Either that or you didn't get past the first sentence. 2. My criticism about this page is basically that it sounds more like a forum, and a long one at that. So really? You're going to criticize my criticism of this talk page as sounding like a rambling forum, by telling me to keep it to myself because this isn't a forum? 3. An epistle? Were you reading the bible this morning or something? 98.71.99.102 (talk) 13:59, April 22, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * I meant no one will fully read your talk page posts; your latter statement was accurate, i skimmed it.
 * Although article talk pages are not supposed to be a place for "forum talk" you can't be serious in criticising it. That, to me, is ridiculous as long a none of it is translated to the article.
 * Halleluyerrr--Cerez365™☺ 14:11, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

That's an understandable point, but if I criticize it, it's because when they get so long arguing about nothing people are less likely to notice actual discussions about the article, and more likely to miss if their point has already been made. For the same reasons of length, no one wants to read all that about someone's silly theory about fire+lightning. My main point about the article though, is it simply seems like this page should be merged with the page about amaratsu, since in both the manga and anime it seems he only refered to his use of amaratsu as an enton, and his ability to manipulate it should be mentioned there. Plus I really don't like the speculative lines refering to it as an advanced chakra nature, simply because it's never been described as such.98.71.99.102 (talk) 14:21, April 22, 2011 (UTC)miah

You could have avoided this whole topic if you had done your research a bit better. Everything said in the article is based on stuff we've seen in official sources. First, as pointed out already, we call it Blaze Release because Sasuke did. We call it an advanced nature because considering what we know from the manga, everything that's not the basic five, yin, or yang, is an advanced nature. We don't call Amaterasu itself a Blaze Release because it was explicitly called a Fire Release in databooks. We call shaping Amaterasu Blaze Release because shaping it was what Sasuke called Blaze Release. The "it is unknown what this nature entails" is our default sentence for showing we don't know which elements compose this nature, all other natures with unknown composition have it. No text that's out of talk pages and user sub pages suggests that blaze is composed of fire and lightning. The only thing in articles which points at that is the image in the nature transformation page, because we had to include Blaze Release somewhere, and according to what we know so far, advanced natures are made by combining basic natures, so fire and lightning, being the natures Sasuke has, is the least speculative option, and it has the question mark next to it denoting it's not a confirmed fact. Should more information be divulged about it, such as what makes it, or how it is made (if different from the mixing of basic natures), the relevant pages will be updated to reflect it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:27, April 22, 2011 (UTC)