Talk:Gentle Fist

Question
can't someone train themselves to send chakra through their palms and use it to damage the heart? everyone knows where the heart is so can't someone outside of the hyuga clan damage it with chakra control training alone? --75.3.231.166 (talk) 19:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

No, the point of Gentle Fist is to attack the chakra points, not the organs, and damaging the chakra points around these organs is what causes the damage. And since Byakugan is required to see the chakra points, that leaves the conclusion that no not anyone can learn it. -Perschbacher
 * Actually the basic point of Gentle Fist IS to target the organs. Skilled practicioners (i.e. Neji) can take it further and attack the chakra points. So, yes a regular person can use Gentle Fist.
 * No, Gentle Fist basic useage is to target the chakra network..to damage it and the organ's it's associated with. A skilled Juuken user probably knows where to attack someone's chakra network to damage their heart. A normal person cannot see the chakra network, so no, they can't use Gentle Fist. --Alexdhamp (talk) 22:47, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Fiighting style
I think we could add these two paragraphs to the gentil fist page. They come from the fighting style page and I thing they complement well this article.

¨Another example of a fighting style is the Taijutsu style known as Gentle Fist, which is a both an 'Internal' style and a 'Soft' style martial art:

An 'Internal' martial arts style is a fighting style which is characterized by its emphasis on the use of the practitioner's mind to coordinate the leverage of the relaxed body, (as opposed to the use of brute strength,) and the internal development, circulation, and expression of their chakra. A practitioner of a internal style understands that an opponent is only as strong as their weakest joint. Training regimes for internal styles include meditation and exercising control over their internal chakra flow. A 'Soft' martial arts style is a fighting style is characterized by its approach by receiving the aggressor's force and momentum and turning it against him by leading the attack in another direction. In these styles, the user seeks to turn their opponents own strength against them, to bring them off-balance, diffusing the energy of the incoming attack, and, in the case of the Gentle Fist, to take them down from the inside. A 'soft' style is less about ones physical strength and more about ones internal power, in the case of of a Gentle Fist practitioner, its the user's superior chakra control and precision that brings success. This fighting style emphasizes control and defense.¨ Neji uchiha (talk) 06:46, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Parent jutsu
Since this is the most basic thing the Byakugan allows, should we consider it a parent technique to the other Byakugan techniques, similar to what we do with Destruction Bug Host Technique? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:28, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think the Byakugan is actually necessary for the Gentle Fist style. It just makes it a lot more easy. —ShounenSuki (talk 21:37, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant listing Gentle Fist as a parent jutsu to other Gentle Fist techniques, for example Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms and Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:44, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, in that case, yeah of course. It wasn't already? —ShounenSuki (talk 22:53, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it wasn't. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Gentle Fist Style
Wouldn't "Gentle Fist Art" or "Art of Gentle Fist" more litera translation of "Jūkenpō"?--LeafShinobi (talk) 11:44, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * That would bring it in line with our translations of ninpō and senpō. 'Art' does come closer to the meaning of 法. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:38, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * So should we change it?

OK, if no one has something against it, I will change it to "Gentle Fist Art".--LeafShinobi (talk) 14:53, May 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I changed it.--LeafShinobi (talk) 18:35, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Gentle Fist Style
When is it called like that except of Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms and Gentle Fist Style One Blow Body?--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:15, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dim Mak?
Could the Gentle Fist techniques have anything to do with the martial art Dim Mak or is it based off it? 108.74.182.16 (talk) 06:59, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * It certainly is related to it. What you call a martial art is really nothing more than a simple concept: the using of acupuncture points in attacks, sometimes leading to instant death. is generally called  in Chinese; a word that translates to tenketsu in Japanese. —ShounenSuki (talk 08:38, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's probably a combination of Dim Mak and Baguazhang(Eight Trigrams Palm). --Alexdhamp (talk) 22:54, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Hyūga Elder
In Neji Chronicles we can briefly see him when fightibg Oto Ninja but can we assume that he can use Gentle Fist?--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:32, March 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Honestly I believe this wouldn't be a stretch but we never saw him using it so it's still an assumption but i'd be all for adding him though. --Cerez™☺ 23:36, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

Edit
The Gentle Fist style is sending chakra into the body of your opponent to attack the chakra network, subsequently injuring surrounding internal organs due to their close proximity. I changed it because this article defined striking the tenketsu as the Gentle Fist style, which is untrue; that is merely a variation of the Gentle Fist style. I believe that my change should be kept.

--Skipperdoo32 (talk) 23:13, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

(Sorry; the above comment should be under a new topic)

--Skipperdoo32 (talk) 23:14, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

No words you changed speak of tenketsu. Most Hyūga attack the chakra network without targeting the tenketsu, only a few can target those. Nothing about the way the article is written says that it's all just tenketsu attack. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:27, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

But that what I was trying to specify; the article had listed attacking the chakra network, "disrupting or diverting" the flow of chakra. This is the description used for when one attacks the tenketsu, not generally for gentle fist style fighting. I was just specifying that, for the article suggested that striking the tenketsu was a common aspect of Gentle Fist.

I was under the impression that general attack to the chakra network would account for chakra flow being affected. I'll have to look for the chapters again. Thanks for pointing it out. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, March 30, 2011 (UTC)

hidden technique
why this technique can only be used by the hyuga can is this a hidden technique.
 * Sign your posts. The answer to your question is in the article. This style is about attacking the chakra network, something which requires the Byakugan to see. The term you want to use is hiden, not hidden, and this isn't hiden, it's a kekkei genkai taijutsu style. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:58, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Couldn't the Main House techniques like Eight Trigrams Palms Heavenly Spin and Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms be considered a Hiden within the Hyuuga clan, itself?--Alexdhamp (talk) 07:01, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really, all those techniques were performed by releasing chakra to their tenketsu. --NejiLoverr26 10:26, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're mixing up "hiden" and "just not taught to them"--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:55, June 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Point taken. >.< --Alexdhamp (talk) 02:16, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Does it really have to be fists?
I was just wondering, would it be possible for someone to be able to close or open a tenketsu using something other than their hands? Like, maybe, an elbow or something? Or is it just not possible in any other way? I'm writing something and I'd appreciate the input. Thanks in advance! --Marael (talk) 23:49, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Of course, Hyuga can control all their Tenketsu. The taijutsu fighting style uses their hands though. --Elveonora (talk) 23:50, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kaguya
Hasn't she used this in the latest chapter?--Elveonora (talk) 11:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * When? The hair senbon stuff or those chakra fists? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:32, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Chakra fists, reminiscent of Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm--Elveonora (talk) 11:42, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * For me they look like Evening Elephant Human Hands version. :D — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 11:45, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? I thought either simple tailed beast chakra hands or the welcoming approach murder-thing. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:46, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gentle Fist seems to actually require the use of ones fists, and it appears she did use hers, and she has her Byakugan active, I would say yes.
 * However as both of you are apt to point out, she never did state she used Gentle Fist so I would also say no, and as the article currently does not have her in it, I wouldn't add her now.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:48, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Definitely not chakra arms, but could be a canonized version of welcoming approach murder thingy. So I guess next chapter it is--Elveonora (talk) 11:52, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

i guess we just wait then but i dont think its gentle fist. Munchvtec (talk) 13:33, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't think it was Gentle First when I saw it. I thought it was just generic chakra first, much like Naruto does with tailed beast chakra. It didn't look like Gentle Fist to me because GF doesn't usually get a hand imprint like that, the only one remotely similar is Hinata's Twin Lion Fists, but those look like lions, not fists. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:50, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

I guess it is gentle fist since she used her byakugan to create it and i guess gentle fist got it's new technique after a long time .(Jajati (talk) 11:47, June 13, 2014 (UTC))

Eight Trigrams: Twin Lions Crumbling Attack
so, does nayone who can plan on adding this to the jutsu list ?Yahyanime (talk) 16:57, January 31, 2015 (UTC)

Shira
See history, Omojuze says he used acupuncture instead of chakra. I guess he think acupuncture also blocked Neji's attack.--Elve Talk Page 15:48, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I didn't say acupuncture.. >.< I just noted to you an example as to how pressure points are used in nowaday life. Either way, Gentle Fist - palm fighting, and the existence of real-life pressure points which can be blocked with precise jabs (like in karate) or senbon. The only instance when a Hyūga used a finger was in the Chūnin Exams against Naruto, when Neji purposely jabbed Naruto's chakra point to block it.--Omojuze (talk) 15:51, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * And since Shira cloaks himself with his chakra using Silent Fist, I think that was enough to block Neji's attack, either that, or it's a filler mistake.--Omojuze (talk) 15:52, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tenketsu are tiny (so tiny that not even all Byakugan users can see them), they can be blocked by other means than chakra yes, by a needle for an example, but not by a mere impact of a finger which doesn't fit in. Shira's owl cloak makes him silent, it didn't close Lee's Tenketsu, otherwise it would have closed all of them not just those hit by Shira's finger.--Elve Talk Page 15:56, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shira is a taijutsu user, so he's possibly highly knowledgeable in a person's body and chakra system. Well, we can't see pressure points in real-life too, but they can be blocked or stunned. Shira's owl cloak could've, but I don't really think so either, but If it did, Shira mostly did punches and not jabs, the jabs are what could've blocked 'em.--Omojuze (talk) 16:00, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * But he did jabs with two fingers for blocking Lee's chakra points. The only thing we don't know if there is chakra involved from his fingers just like with Neji, also for releasing chakra points he did hit some point which was no chakra point. When Shira was fighting Neji he was blocking Neji's Gentle Fist probably knowing where Neji is going to hit.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 16:29, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

What you say is like saying it's possible to put an arm into an ear hole, that's about the size difference between a finger and a tenketsu, impossible. Also Neji's attack can't be simply blocked/tanked, it inflicts internal damage as is a K.O. move, the only way he could sustain it is by releasing chakra from the points hit.--Elve Talk Page 16:47, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bump.--Elve Talk Page 12:18, February 27, 2015 (UTC)


 * It is a K.O. move but only when Neji's fingers hit the tenketsu which are in close proximity to the organs, Shira anticipated Neji's move he knew his tenketsu points so he blocked Neji's attack by his hands so it doesn't hit his tenketsu, a normal person who doesn't know about tenketsu would get hit by Neji, because the speed at which Neji's hand move is unblockable by random movements. Lets say the tenketsu node size is same as the size of pinhole or comparable to lymph nodes in our body, surely one would be able to block chakra flow pathway with pressure even though it is deep beneath the skin.


 * I was under the impression that Shira wasn't able to expel chakra just like Lee and Guy, they use it for Eight Gates mostly expelling sweat but not chakra, Also I believe Shira walking on quick sand was because of chakra control internally just like walking on water. If he is expelling then I guess he is similar to Neji in using this technique may be he is expelling chakra from the finger's tip in small amounts to hit tenketsu. Neji noted that he is using chakra cloak to muffle sound so the guy expelled chakra.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 12:56, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shira, Lee and Guy can all expel chakra. Shira's has chakra cloak all around his body in a shape of an "owl" he has to expel chakra from his body to do that. Even to walk on things they have to expel chakra from their feet to create a layer of chakra which makes them float above watter/attached to surfaces. Shira and Lee simply have no talent for Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, chakra control and chakra flow aren't Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, nature transformation is. Also Guy can use Ninjutsu.--Elve Talk Page 13:41, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * So it's gentle fist then? but we have created a page for his technique which is used in conjunction with silent fist, does anyone agree for listing gentle fist as parent technique for Tenketsu Blocking Strikes? and also listing Shira as a user of gentle fist.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 14:55, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * No more opinions?--Elve Talk Page 18:32, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Can't support adding him as a user (is this what this thread is for?). The technique is based on a Hyūga kekkei genkai. Clarify what he said and then add to bird fist. Also Lee has no issue with expelling chakra, he just can't mold it to use jutsu. I do hate fillers so.—Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:53, February 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Based on, it doesn't require it.--Elve Talk Page 21:18, February 27, 2015 (UTC)

Removing Boruto
Nothing suggested Boruto was using chakra in his palm against Shikidai. Furthermore, gentle fist users aim for the body, not the opponents head. --Shrek4chan (talk) 14:41, March 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * A trivia point or at least a mention that he did something similar is all thats needed. If we dont know then we dont know, discussing it wont give us an answer as there is no answer right now. By the way, a gentle fist user can aim for whatever they please. Munchvtec (talk) 15:54, March 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Considering that Hinata is Boruto's mother, I sincerely doubt that it's coincidence that Boruto uses something similiar to Gentle Fist.
 * If anything, The Day Naruto Became Hokage implies that both Boruto and Himawari were taught Gentle Fist, since Himawari was capable of striking tenketsu after she awoke Byakugan. --JouXIII (talk) 16:16, March 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Either this could be Gentle Fist or Chakra Enhanced Strength. The latter is more likely as paln striking is the signature use the Hyuga. Also, if your claim is we didn't see any chakra exoelled, well look at water surface walking for instance. When Boruto tried to hit Shikidai you notice that though Boruto's attack was stopped, there was some force or chakra expelling that blew on Shikidai's face a bit. And also, last time I checked tekentsu is in the head too, not that I think Boruto was aiming to shut down it, but excluding the head is false. --Rai 水 (talk) 17:17, March 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm quite sure it was the Gentle Fist.--Elve Talk Page 18:14, March 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * The effect on Shikidai's face is just a common animation technique for showing the force of an attack. It alone can't be used as evidence for expelling chakra. --JavelinR (talk) 17:32, March 3, 2016 (UTC)

That and using palm strike like his clan members do. I mean you don't honestly believe ut was pure strength behind that palm? --Rai 水 (talk) 17:52, March 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * Had it not been Gentle Fist, why slap his face? If it were meant as physical fist, fist would have been more adequate for that purpose.--Elve Talk Page 18:24, March 3, 2016 (UTC)


 * Lots of characters have used palm strikes in fights. It's not as common as a fist but it's there. (Rock Lee's early fighting stance even starts with both his palms open.) You're going through a lot of conjecture to use that as definitive proof.  Don't get me wrong, it's not unreasonable to assume Boruto at some point in his life learned the technique given who his mom is.  But until solid evidence surfaces it's just that, an assumption. I don't think it reflects well on this wiki's standards to be so loose with how it defines a jutsu. Even if Boruto did pick up the idea of using palm strikes from watching his mom the Gentle Fist is usually depicted as an entire martial arts style.  One missed strike that we have to debate whether or not even comes from the Gentle Fist doesn't serve as compelling evidence in my opinion. --JavelinR (talk) 18:39, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Like I said it's either CES or Gentle Fist. We've seen the same thing happen with Sakura towards Kabuto when aiming to punch him. The reason it is believed to be Gentle Fist is because of his lineage. Also, @Jave explain that to Palm Bottom. One strike. Still a Gentle Fist fighting method. --Rai 水 (talk) 19:10, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Or maybe they were just showing off their movie budget? It's still to big a jump to assume that alone proves a jutsu.  Also Palm Bottom would be considered a derivative of the Gentle Fist like Heavenly Rotation, but much more basic... if it should really be counted as a jutsu at all.  Really only the "chakra insertion" part makes it Gentle Fist.  Everything else about it, including the Japanese name provided on that page, just depicts a basic palm strike.  Try image googling "掌底 ナルト" and the overwhelming majority of the results aren't even Hyuga related.  "掌底" just returns real life martial arts.  Palm strikes are simply a basic component of the Gentle Fist that predate the style.--JavelinR (talk) 19:30, March 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * It is still part of Gentle Fist.
 * Also, Himawari, not even academy student, was capable of using Gentle Fist almost immediately after awakening Byakugan. As we can all agree, Gentle Fist doesn't automatically come with Byakugan. In other words, Himawari was taught Gentle Fist before she had Byakugan. The most likely teacher would be Hinata. And since Boruto is oldest of two, it would only make sense that Hinata would teach both her children Gentle Fist.
 * Then there's this. --JouXIII (talk) 11:06, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Doujutsu techniques can come automatically. Case in point, Kakashi's Susanoo and Obito's Kamui. And there's no proof she was taught gentle fist. After all, there are such things are learning from a scroll and mastering the technique without assistance like with Neji and Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven.
 * I say leave it for now, but if he's truly a user of the Gentle Fist, he will use it in the upcoming manga. And if he doesn't, remove him then. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 11:29, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, Gentle Fist is Hiden, meaning that it doesn't come automatically but you must learn it from someone within your clan orally. --JouXIII (talk) 11:36, March 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Only proves it can be learned, not that its limited to being learned.
 * Yeah, Boruto performed something identical to Gentle Fist and he's seemingly has more chance of using it being the son of Hinata, but the same argument could be said about Boruto using Chidori. He's performed something identical and he's the student of Sasuke, not to mention he has lightning release. Saying all that, palm techniques aren't exclusive to the Gentle Fist, as Naruto performed a palm attack against Pain, 1 of Choji's attacks uses his palms and Kakashi uses his fingers to use One Thousand Years of Death. Without confirmation he was using a chakra palm, it should be labeled as a ordinary palm attack.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:13, March 4, 2016 (UTC)

I don't see a reason to remove him as a Gentle Fist user. The Hyūga are the only one that have an open-handed fighting style, there was the after effect of Shikadai stopping him which, had it connected and not been Gentle Fist, would have been far less effective that a punch (which is most fighter's default). Then someone mentioned that Himawari was able to use Gentle Fist after awakening her Byakugan. I don't find it improbable that Hinata taught them the fighting style of her clan, or else, like we've always suspected, Gentle Fist is (at least partly) a kekkei genkai.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 03:01, March 5, 2016 (UTC)