Talk:Momoshiki Ōtsutsuki

Momoshiki, Kinshiki, & a Grunt
After watching the extended Boruto Movie Trailer (1), there are three distinct baddies, being --DC52 (talk) 11:33, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) A man with very long hair and a vale (2) whom is likely Momoshiki
 * 2) A grunt (3) whom does not have long hair (4)
 * 3) A third distinct baddie with longish hair & no vale (5) whom is likely Kinshiki
 * The guy on the shoulder is Momoshiki, we know him from the movie poster. The guy below him has no Rinnegan in his palms, so I don't know if we can say for sure he's Kinshiki. Same goes for the guy with the rabbit ears. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:36, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau agreed, i was about to post that we cant tell for sure who is Kinshiki yet. It could be the grunt or it could be "rabbit ears", also the grunt and "rabbit ears" could possibly be the same person.--DC52 (talk) 11:40, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the grunt below Momoshiki and the rabbit ear dude are definitely two different persons. Also, the rabbit ear dude uses some kind of half-moon? While the second grund uses a club. So they could probably be two different persons as well. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:44, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * This should probably be in the forum thread about the trailer rather than a talkpage... --Sajuuk Special:Contributions/SuperSajuuk 11:46, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau One last thing before i move this to the trailer forum, i found this (1) which confirms that the grunt is キンシキ | Kinshiki --DC52 (talk) 11:57, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yup, that confirms it. Sajuuk, this discussion was about what information we put into this article. It's perfectly fine here. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:03, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau hmm, are those two dots in the middle of his forehead eyebrows? To me it looks like Momoshiki has eyebrows just above his eyes (like a normal person) and has two dots on his forehead (1). Im on the fence when it comes to this, its up to you. --DC52 (talk) 17:37, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Does it say anything interesting besides their names?--Elve Talk Page 12:06, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Tau: Okay then. Will leave this discussion in peace. --Sajuuk Special:Contributions/SuperSajuuk 12:06, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * So Kinshiki is grunt who has horn only on his right side, and the Rinnegan might be on his other palm or somewhere else. And Momoshiki is the short one so it's confirmed. Thank you DC52 now we can add description and image. --Mecha Naruto (talk) 12:09, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Elve, the main text is the same that was translated a few days ago, from what I can tell. I can't really read the character descriptions. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:09, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Elveonora its mostly just fluff & not really new info, someone took close up shots Inojin, Sarada, Mitsuki, & Sasuke, OrganicDinosaur translated them here (1), also 2chan seems to agree that for Momoshiki it says "An enigmatic man who attacks Konohagakure Village. He's collecting the chakra that dwells in the world." (1) --DC52 (talk) 13:46, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone think there is a third person, according to this we can say: It looks like he is a fusion of both Momoshiki and Kinshiki, Momshiki has pony tail and rabbit ears and Kinshiki has big palms, and the outfit is different.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 15:10, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1 is Momoshiki.
 * 2 is Kinshiki.
 * 3 is??


 * @Mecha Naruto it could be the person whom Kaguya fears. --DC52 (talk) 15:19, June 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, is it worth adding them as Otsutsuki already, given that they are exactly the same in appearance? Momoshiki looks just like Kaguya and they share the pale skin with Hamura and Toneri.--Omojuze (talk) 15:31, June 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * @Omojuze id say its very safe to assume that Momoshiki & Kinshiki are Ōtsutsuki's based on the plethora of similarities to other Ōtsutsuki's --DC52 (talk) 15:40, June 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * @Omojuze The Kaguya Clan Markings shows that you are related to/from the Kaguya clan in the same way that having a Sharingan shows you are related to/from the Uchiha clan. Momoshiki's forehead markings (1) are nigh identical to Kaguyas forehead markings (2). Im on the fence about whether or not this should be added, its up to you. --DC52 (talk) 16:08, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, Kaguya never used Shikotsumyaku... Regarding their abilities, I'd say we wait.--Omojuze (talk) 16:12, June 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * True, but Kaguya used All-Killing Ash Bones. On the other hand it is always good to wait for confirmation. At the moment i think the best thing to do would be to state in "appearance" that Momoshiki & Kaguya have similar forehead markings. --DC52 (talk) 16:27, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeap. That would be the safest.--Omojuze (talk) 16:28, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Hair color
I had also assumed that Mitsuki's hair color was bluish-gray, but was told it was white. So, doesn't the same apply here? 00:40, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Most likely, doubt they have bluish-gray hair.--Kuroiraikou (talk) 00:49, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

except they do: defintely isnt white.--RexGodwin (talk) 02:09, July 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Seems gray to me.--Elve Talk Page 02:43, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

Rinnegan
Studio Pierrot/Shueisha art is irrelevant when compared to art done by Kishimoto. The main visual, which was drawn by Kishimoto depicts Momoshiki's rinnegan as light purple, a nigh-identical color to Hagoromos rinnegan. Shueisha has a history of wrongly coloring rinnegans red, Shueisha colored Sasukes rinnegan red in the official colorization. Kishimotos art should always be the primary source. --DC52 (talk) 01:04, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of that. Yet, another user says that it's because of the light or whatever. Please ask him about it, as I said. • Seelentau 愛 議 01:11, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Depicts it as light red here, though. 01:40, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * @WindStar7125 It's still vastly different from the dark red that the Studio Pierrot/Shueisha drawing depict Momoshiki's rinnegan as, which is the same color that they wrongly depicted Sasukes rinnegan as. Its best to wait until the movie, to see what color it is, for now we should go off of Kishimotos art and label it as light purple/pink --DC52 (talk) 02:07, July 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, and saw movie spoilers. His Rinnegan is indeed red. 03:21, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Momoshiki confirmed as an Otsutsuki
Zai no Sho confirms that Momoshiki is an Otsutsuki --DC52 (talk) 03:19, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Image of Momoshiki's form after absorbing Kinshiki
The image can be found here --DC52 (talk) 13:26, August 9, 2015 (UTC)

Momoshiki trivia addition
I'd like to make a point in the trivia that Momoshiki's main ability of using the rinnegan's in his hand to absorb, desconstruct and copy elemental attacks has similarity to the Dark Release style we saw with Hiruko in the earlier movie, much like how me made a note on the functioal similarity of Shin Uchiha's space time jutsu to kamui

Hadrimon (talk) 08:46, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * But Hiruko And Dark Release Aren't Canon o.O Bob1200 (talk) 18:49, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

That doesnt change the fact that it works so incredibly similar, try using the brain a little bit?

Hadrimon (talk) 22:53, August 24, 2015 (UTC)

Should we add lava release?
He blatantly makes lava from chakra, once to burn sasuke and another time to make a huge golem. Seems natural we should add lava to his element list

Hadrimon (talk) 10:04, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to wait until get images. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:41, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

We even have him written as using lava in his profile though

Hadrimon (talk) 17:14, August 26, 2015 (UTC)

HD Image of Momoshiki after absorbing Kinshiki
 --DC52 (talk) 00:19, September 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * We don't use images from previews or anything with words in it. Also, that was definitely not HD. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:34, September 4, 2015 (UTC)


 * @Seelentau Sorry, i was unaware that we did not use images from previews, i wont add them in the future. Also, it is indeed from an HD video. --DC52 (talk) 00:43, September 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * 720p is HD? Oh well~ :D • Seelentau 愛 議 00:46, September 4, 2015 (UTC)

Wood Release?
"Fusion Momoshiki" uses wood release for to create the wood Dragons. in the this trailer 2:32 and 3:00  --Sharingan91 (talk) 20:35, September 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's more like he's capable of giving life to pre-existing material. I'd say, wait for the movie :)--Omojuze (talk) 20:40, September 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok... --Sharingan91 (talk) 07:44, September 5, 2015 (UTC)

Personality?
Unless there's good reason, shouldn't there be Personality-section for Momoshiki and Kinshiki?--JouXIII (talk) 13:45, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, there should be one but. No one wants to make it. Understand that we are people and we have the choice to do things. Eventually someone will add one. Feel free to write something since you seem to care so much. Munchvtec (talk) 14:47, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Rasengan, Wood Release and Ice release?
Momoshiki uses Rasengan,, and he absorbs Wood Release (In fact, in the movie he uses). Quote: "Countless ninjutsu were thrown out of Katasuke’s gauntlet. Fire release, water release, wood release, lightning release, and the Rasengan. Every now and then hiden jutsu that had been collected from Konoha’s clans were fired towards Momoshiki as well. No…they were practically offered up to him on a silver platter. Momoshiki’s right hand sucked up every single one of the jutsu." ... Quote:"Crimson flames, lightning that split heaven and earth, absolute zero degree blizzard, a downpour of meteorites. They threw back Katasuke and them first."--Sharingan91 (talk) 08:58, October 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Finally someone who obtained WR without Hashirama's cells. Any mention on what hiden's he absorbed? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 09:06, October 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shikamaru's Shadow Imitation Technique was the only one shown. I'm iffy about Ice Release, though, Water Release can create frost sometimes, no? Also, it's a blizzard, Haku's Ice Release didn't create snow.--Omojuze (talk) 09:12, October 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * The snow may be a form of Ice Release... Ice Release: Wolf Fang Avalanche Technique, Ice Release: Swallow Snow Storm... As in the Lava Release: rubber, lava, fire-rock, quicklime, mud... --Sharingan91 (talk) 09:34, October 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure if I have any place in the discussion, but he seemed to use the Rasengan in the film as well, against Boruto. When Boruto formed the Rasengan (and Naruto supplied additional chakra), Momoshiki said he could form a countless number of those, and responded with his own Rasengan — red and black in colour. Just figured I'd supply that tidbit.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 01:31, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Was that red and black ball he summoned a Rasengan? Didn't seem like it :/ 04:11, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that was the Rasengan.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 04:12, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was different than what I saw in the previews.... 04:15, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * He formed two spheres in the movie. The first was the Bijūdama he absorbed from B. The second was the Rasengan, which he absorbed I believe from Katasuke's Scientific Ninja Tool. You lot can always wait a year for the DVD, I'm just telling you what I saw.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 04:20, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Well, if the novelization says he used Rasengan, and someone who watched the movie asserts it, well, I can't see any reason not to believe it. :/ 04:23, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Saw it on YouTube (Type in "Momoshiki Rasengan" on Google). Looks like a Dark Rasengan to me, just like the novel said. Novelizations and movies are almost always the same, so yeah. 04:33, October 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Glad to have been of assistance.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 04:38, October 14, 2015 (UTC)

Techniques.
Sasuke said something along the lines that Momoshiki's rinnegan seals and unseals techniques similar to the Kote. With that said, he shouldn't be listed as a user of any of the techniques he unsealed since he never created them. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 04:45, October 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, his ability is to suck in jutsu with his rinnegan and then unleash them back stronger on his opponents. That's why Sasuke says to Naruto not to use jutsu against him, but he sucks up Katasuke's jutsus he unleashes on him because he is stupid. Probably that's why Kaguya who was physically frail and did everything with jutsu needed soldiers against the two. His ability is pretty much Kaguya's Achilles heel. --Exkirion (talk) 06:51, October 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a tough one. Unleashing them after absorption is still kinda using them isn't it?--Elve Talk Page 08:47, October 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd say he's as much of a user for using these pre existing techniques as the Konoha 11 being users of the Rasengan. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:56, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

I'd personally argue against that last part, as near the end he create a giant rasengan on his own despite not absorbing on right before. Seems to show he can access anything he has previously absorbed, and in that case, modify the proportions to create his giant red rasengan. I'd say it's closer to a sharingan copied jutsu, he can use it whenever (Hadrimon (talk) 10:31, October 21, 2015 (UTC))
 * The concept is the same as Dark Release: Inhaling Maw, and look how we decided to treat Hiruko.--Omojuze (talk) 11:20, October 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * The concept is identical to the Konte, and look how we treated Konohamaru as a user of the Shadow Imitation Technique. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:16, October 21, 2015 (UTC)

WTH?
Why does he have WR? --Keeptfighting (talk) 22:31, October 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Read the above discussions.Umishiru (talk) 02:46, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

Ok. And why aren't Lava Release (which is already mentioned in his article) and Ice Release not included, instead only Wood Release?--Keeptfighting (talk) 04:08, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Read the above discussions.Umishiru (talk) 15:50, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * I did, but it doesnt answer my question..--Keeptfighting (talk) 16:57, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Could be an oversight. Go ahead and add him as a possesor of said elements if you like.Also it maybe best that you don't create topics with overreacting titles if you wish to be taken seriously.Umishiru (talk) 17:59, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Got it :)--Keeptfighting (talk) 18:34, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

Jutsu Infobox
In the infobox there is Earth Release: Earth Flow Spears, but in the movie he uses Wood. Then we should enter in infobox Earth Release: Sandwich Technique. --Sharingan91 (talk) 14:08, October 30, 2015 (UTC)

Kaguya
Idk why it says he is Kaguyas retainer but he definitely isn't.They are apparently feared by Kaguya and the reason she made the Zetsu army; nowhere is it said they work together or implied as such.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 20:06, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Where is it said he's the retainer of Kaguya?--Ravenlot 27 (talk) 21:00, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed from infobox. --Sharingan91 (talk) 21:09, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * The discussion is still ongoing. Pretty sure Momoshiki and Kinshiki were called that in either Zai no Sho or in some promotional material. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 21:14, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * They implement the will of Kaguya, the search of the chakra for itself. --Sharingan91 (talk) 21:24, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

well movie info trumps all else and they were her enemies not followers.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 23:52, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Wood or Earth Release
If people think that Momoshiki posses Wood Release, I would like to know why. Because the "wood" dragons Momoshiki used against Kurama are earth-based Dragons. That was made clear, after Momoshiki used the Shinju Sasuke was standing on to stop his movement's and Sasuke countered it with Lightning, which makes clear that it was Earth Release. Besides that can Momoshiki use Lava Release or did he just used a combination of Earth, which he melted with Fire? Was it anywhere stated that he can use both the Nature combinations?--Keeptfighting (talk) 02:19, November 20, 2015 (UTC)

That's terrible logic man, they came out of the shinju, a structure made of wood. Just because sasuke used lightning on it doesnt make it earth. Thats like saying an earth dome used to shield a fire attack means its a water jutsu

(Hadrimon (talk) 21:45, December 17, 2015 (UTC))
 * Well, personally I doubt Shinju really consists of Wood Release we know it, as Shinju must be above any KKG in any case, but, of course, it doesn't make Shinju Earth Release, an element of even lower quality than WR, either. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 21:54, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

This has been bothering me for quite a while. I don't think we can call it Wood Release, since he was just controlling the Shinju, otherwise we would have to call God: Nativity of a World of Trees Wood Release, which it's not. --UltimaDude (talk) 17:50, December 31, 2015 (UTC)

New infobox image
I uploaded a new image of him, should we replace it? Chieko ^_^ (talk) 12:46, December 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * More casual expression and better lighting, change sounds good. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:52, December 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Him smiling looks very creepy >.< His facial expression on the current one is better IMO, but I'm fine with either.--Omojuze (talk) 12:53, December 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd like this new one, it should fit. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 12:57, December 26, 2015 (UTC)

Monsters
Should a jutsu page be made for making his two giant monsters?--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 21:18, December 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * There was one, but for the reasons that I can't remember it was removed. --JouXIII (talk) 02:00, January 1, 2016 (UTC)

Momo's Rinnegan rings
Is it worth to mention that when Momoshiki activates his red Rinnegan, the black rings change their colors to white?--JouXIII (talk) 21:13, January 1, 2016 (UTC)

Ice Release + justus' names
Where did you get info about Crimsom Flame, Motion of Land, Thunder Splitting and Ice Release?--KILLERBEE479 (talk) 00:17, March 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * The Boruto Movie Novel, written by Kodachi. --DC52 (talk) 01:04, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Status
We never got a confirmation of Momoshiki's death, he was just blasted into space. Momoshiki did say he was immortal. His status should be "unknown" --DC52 (talk) 01:03, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * From a story telling perspective, he's dead. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 04:06, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Plus theres different types of immortality. hes likely the "never ages/dies from natural causes" type as hes from Kaguyas era with a youthful appearance.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 00:59, May 21, 2016 (UTC)

advanced/combined natures
I haven't seen the entire movie, but was there an actual evidence that he could use Wood Release and Lava Release? For Ice Release in novel, actual statement/technique or assumption?--Elve Talk Page 13:54, June 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Momoshiki manipulated the tree to make spikes, which apparently = Wood Release + he absorbed someone's WR . He also absorbed snow in the novel, which is why Ice Release is listed, though he didn't use it to my knowledge. As for Lava Release, his Golem sort of looks like it's made of lava. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:08, June 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * You read above "Rasengan, Wood Release and Ice release?". In the translation novel he absorbs wood release.--Sharingan91 (talk) 14:15, June 7, 2016 (UTC)