Talk:Tobi

So whenever I try to edit
I think it's really obvious now, I mean REALLY obvious that Madara is the main villain. The latest chapter has me suspecting the series will end after the war. I occasionally try to make the obvious edit, listing Madara as the main villain. But whenever I do, someone instantly undoes my edit. So does this wiki really believe that Madara isn't the main villain? Or that there isn't enough evidence to list him as such? The man has almost orchestrated everything and laid the foundation for the entire story, he pulls everyone by strings like puppets. He's a troll almost to Aizen's level, and fucks with people's minds beyond belief. He has the Sharingan, Mangekyo Sharingan, AND the Rinnegan. He's undoubtably the most powerful character in the series.

So why can't we list him as the main villain already? It certainly isn't Kabuto, or Zetsu [lol] And it's definitely not Sasuke.


 * Because he does nothing villainous during the first 300 chapters, and it's likely the idea of him didn't even cross Kishimoto's mind for the first 200 chapters. Ignoring that, Orochimaru operates outside the realms of the giant retcon that is Madara, and he could pass for "the main villain" for the those 300 chapters Madara does nothing. So what happens when there are two "the"s? They become "a"s. ~SnapperTo 07:21, November 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention that Sasuke could still turn out to be the true main villain. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:11, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Darth Vader did more in the Star Wars trilogy but Palpatine was still the main villain, and wasn't seen until the very last movie, and very little of him was actually seen. Adding onto that, Orochimaru's title as the main villain was forfeit when Kishimoto decided to throw him away like garbage and let Kabuto take his place. And the likeliness of Sasuke being the main villain is bogus. For that to happen Madara would have to be out of the picture, and in the process the Moon's Eye Plan would be stopped. By taking this into account, if Madara is defeated than the ninja world essentially wins. Sasuke also doesn't have the arsenal of abilities to be the main villain. Kishimoto is following a common manga-cliche, and that is to beef up a main villain by making him possess godly powers. Madara could easily overpower Sasuke now, even with the newly obtained EMS that Sasuke obtained by transplanting Itachi's eyes. This is all speculation right now, but the most likely scenario is Naruto and Sasuke fighting Madara together after another shit load of chapters. I mean we see how Kishimoto writes, usually predictions never come true. But just as well, by using simple logic it's obvious Sasuke can't be the main villain because he doesn't have the power to do so. As well as the fact that Madara being defeated after all he's done, and Sasuke just randomly becoming the main villain for no reason is terrible writing, and isn't exactly expected of Kishimoto. I'm not saying I know what's going to happen, but I think it's pretty obvious that Madara is the main villain. He has the power to be the main villain, a motive a main villain should possess, and not to mention his death would equal the end of the war and all the threats the Akatsuki posed on the world. If you have anything that can contradict my points, I'd be happy to read them. Not for argument purposes, but I'm interested to see what you guys can come up with.

I wonder whatever happened to simply reading/watching a story and being pulled along by the story's interesting points and instead trying to act like a crystal ball and cut ahead of the author speculating on what they're going to write before they even write it. I might as well point out that we never listed the Fourth Hokage as Naruto's father until the story basically outright said it eliminating any sane speculation on the topic (well, ignoring the kind of speculation based on whacked out logic the class of people who still believe Tobi is Obito are using, heh...). ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Nov 5, 2010 @ 07:56 (UTC) 07:56, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

I definitely have to give you props on that point. And the fucked up thing is they're still persisting to claim that Tobi/Madara could still be Obito, despite him having two eyes and no facial similarities. I guess they can't accept their age-old theory isn't going to happen, but I digress. I guess we'll have to wait until the series is over to really claim Madara is the main villain.
 * Well, not completely over... It's possible that through some interview in the future Kishimoto might state he's ending the series and drop a hint or two, it'll probably end up on ann as well, at that point may be a one-sided enough debate. ^_^ if I remember correctly, I remember seeing someone's concocted theory on Obito traveled back in time and is Madara. Well... if it wasn't that it was another equally strange theory. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Nov 5, 2010 @ 21:33 (UTC) 21:33, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Six Paths of Pain
Why don't we add the six paths of pain's techs to his jutsubox, since he has the Rinnegan?


 * Because until he shows up in combat with Six separate bodies, then he doesn't have the Six Paths of Pain. Having their abilities is not the same as having them.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 16:53, November 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's what I said!!! (LOL) We should write down their abilities in his jutsu box. Not that he has the six paths. Maybe I should have rephrased in a more understandeable way... It's obvios that he can use them (i.e the abilities) as seen in Chapter 515 pg 11 (http://www.narutoverse.org/Naruto/515/11/). --MadaraCami (talk) 17:01, November 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, I misread that. I thought it said "Six Paths of Pain" and didn't see the "techs" part. Personally I don't see why not.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 17:54, November 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * We don't list jutsu until there's some direct indication that the character is able to use it. Just having the prerequisites isn't enough. ~SnapperTo 18:17, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * And that was the rule I forgot. I am really out of things today.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 19:39, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did we list things just with direct indication? iirc one of the older rules was we never listed it unless they "actually" used it in the story, there were plenty of "able to" jutsu we left out, especially since it would have made lists insanely long for some characters. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Nov 5, 2010 @ 07:58 (UTC) 07:58, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * We try to avoid cases of "able to", but in 515 Madara decides not to use a jutsu because it would kill Yamato. We should make an exception for his good heart. ~SnapperTo 17:41, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Considering Madara stated in 515 that he could use one of the techniques used by the six paths, shouldn't we allow for the techniques to be added? I mean, Madara had no reason to lie about being able to use the technique so it's clear he has the ability to use it. At least it's worth a mention that he has the potential to use it. 86.130.173.37 (talk) 01:19, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * If he hasn't been shown using them or hasn't been directly stated to be able to use them, we do not list them. It could be he requires training before being able to use those techniques and has so far only trained for the mind-reading technique. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:46, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that madar is hiding a third eye under his bandages on his forhead, because he is going to controll the ten tails.I mean the ten tails is having one eye so why should not madara is portraed as same as ten tails. I don't say we should write that becouse it is not truth but only asking. Also should we not wrote that only three peoples who were able to really hurt madara was konan first hokage and naruto's dad.I once wrote that on kona's page but they deleted it.
 * Of course it was deleted, that's a preposterous speculation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:35, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

True?
Madara Uchiha is Playable character in: "Naruto Shippūden: Dragon Blade Chronicles". I thought you can only play as Sasuke and Naruto there, right? Can you play as Tobi too?

Replacement?
Sasori said " haha only Zetsu and my Replacement Tobi is left"... Am I missing out on something previously said or should I wait and see? 1david12 . (talk 06:11, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, "Tobi" replaced Sasori as member of Akatsuki and Deidara's partner. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 07:28, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering when did Sasori actually met "Tobi"

I have to agree with that. I don't remember Sasori meeting "Tobi" at all. As he showed up after Sasori was killed. So how could he know that "Tobi" was his replacement without meeting him? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 12:25, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * From the various things said by the Akatsuki members after Sasori's death and Tobi's introduction, it was made quite obvious that Tobi was already next in line for quite some time and rather well-known by the other members. There is also the possibility that the dead Akatsuki members were brought up-to-date on the current state of affair after being summoned, or that they actually can get some information on the world of the living in the afterlife. —ShounenSuki (talk 15:59, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Tablet Translation, now possible.
So now that Madara has both EMS and the Rinnegan, he can translate the tablet that the Sage left behind. Prehaps this might be one of his next moves? I wonder if it holds the key to reviving a massive amount of people? Not making up a theory, just a suggestion? Since I've seen no talk about the tablet in awhile, thought I'd throw it out there. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 12:40, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Madara can read it all just by having the Rinnegan alone. No Sharingan required. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:56, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Wood Style....? Madara...? How...?
Well, the title is the question. somebody enlighten me on this. It says he possesses the wood style in the infobox.
 * He claims the manged to take some of the First hokages DNA, but it is unknown if that included wood release. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 08:11, December 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah i remember now. Danzo could use wood style, but madara claimed to have mastered it to an even greater degree, allowing him to use izanagi for 10 minutes. So i guess you're right.

it is possible for madara to have wood style fromfirst hokage's dna though it is highly unliky because he is never seen using it.

New Mask Colour
According to the article, Madara's new mask is gray, but I believe it is more of a dull purple, as it is the same colour as thee Rinnegan. It should at least be written in the article that the mask is the same colour as the Rinnegan, ne?

~Tobi

Is there any proof to support the mask is purple? I havn't seen a coloured version of it? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 02:18, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chapter 515 cover.--Deva 27 (talk) 02:25, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Fair call. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 02:29, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

File:Chapter 515 Cover.jpgNoahUchiha (talk) 15:51, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Soul Removal?
Soul Removal? When did Madara use that? 98.200.153.143 (talk) 17:05, December 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * He offers to use it in 515. ~SnapperTo 17:51, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Right Eye
Would it be a safe bet to say that Tsukuyomi would be in Madara's right eye. Since he sealed/lost his left Sharingan. I'm not sure if this is classed as speculation. But a worthy note to think about or mentioning in the trivia section. I don't know. SharinganMike (talk) 21:05, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Madara wouldn't give up his tsukuymi eye for izangi or 'The Eye Of The Moon Plan ' would be for nothing. So it is most liky in his right eye.

main antagonist
couldnt we simply say "Madara has replaced Orochimaru as the main antagonist of the series, in Part II, after the latter was sealed away forever"--98.117.165.233 (talk) 02:21, December 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * You forget that Kabuto implanted Orochimaru's remains into himself, and he is fighting to keep control over it. So the potential for Orochimaru to return is there. Also it has to apply to the series at any given point. So towards the begining of Shipuuden, Orochimaru was the main antagonist and Madara wasn't known to be alive at that point. SharinganMike (talk) 18:54, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

not true. nagatos presence was felt even early on in Shippuden. Akatsuki was more involved than oro and as the recognized leader, Nagato could be considered the main villain of part II until Ch. 364.--98.117.165.233 (talk) 06:37, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

The akasuki is the main threat, at the moment it's madara and sasuke. sasuke because of the impending battle between him and naruto.
 * A war between two people does not an antagonist make...Madara's the one with the grand scheme--Cerez☺ (talk) 00:53, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

No longer has EMS
could we say that Madara appears to no longer have his EMS
 * No, because no one ever said he lost it. The fact he hasn't been seen using it in the present is already noted. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:52, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

eternal mangueko
its said that an eternal mangueko cant loose the light EVER!!!,during his fight wit konan, how did his left eye go blind?

Because he used Izanagi, which costs an eye for each use. EMS prevents you from going blind when using MS techs.--Red-kun (talk) 00:46, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

MS over use leads to blindness and the counter part is EMS though the izangi is sharigan abilty and can blind any form of sharigan from S to EMS.

Kekkei Genkai
If Madara has the Rinnegan, like Mei Terumi, has two Kekkei Genkai. The Sharingan and Rinnegan --Leodix/My Talk/Contributions''' 01:03, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes he does. Your point being? —ShounenSuki (talk 01:06, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Mei is still the only known case of a person naturally having more than one kekkei genkai. Madara had the Rinnegan transplanted. Danzō had many Sharingan transplanted and the Wood Release implanted. Nothing about Madara having the Rinnegan is noteworthy in that aspect. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:08, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Hyūga are said to have multiple kekkei genkai. Or rather, the Byakugan was said to be one of the kekkei genkai of the Hyūga clan. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:22, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe they consider the Gentle Fist style as a kekkei genkai of sorts because only those with the Byakugan can properly use it? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:29, January 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Whatever they meant, the Hyūga have multiple kekkei genkai. Somehow. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:48, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

If you say that gentle fist is a kekei genkai than you can say that amatarasu and tsukuyomi are as well, seing as how only the uchiha can use it. --Rigoberto60 (talk) 17:20, January 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ehm... Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are considered kekkei genkai. At least, they're considered kekkei genkai techniques, being based on a kekkei genkai and all. Gentle Fist could easily be seen in the same way, if the ability to release chakra from any point of one's body is considered a kekkei genkai. Personally, I'd say it's a nice explanation. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:23, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Man kishimoto has done his thing here it is only the imagination so who cares only important things are the facts like story not the esention of jutsu I watch naruto and read it because of story not because of jutsu. The jutsu is the way to make story interesting but jutsu to be more important than caracter it self...
 * Your point being... ? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:43, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Madara's powers
By now Madara has been seen using his space time jutsus.This abilities are from his saringan or some king of his own personal abilities?
 * It stems from his sharingan apparently. But the sharingan is his 'own personal abilities'--Cerez365 (talk) 16:31, January 12, 2011 (UTC)

It is possible it stems from the sharigan though minato(4th hokage) had the abilty and he had no dojutsu or speacial ability.So realy its up to you to decide

Madara's rinengan
In the madara article it is mentioned that that now becasue he has the rinnengan he can use all the abilities .But we are not certain if they realy are rinengan abilities... So ? --Madman361 (talk) 18:21, February 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * The book which revealed the Mizukage's name and each Kage generation said that those are Rinnegan abilities. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:11, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Madara's mask
Shouldn't madara's page say that he wears a mask not only to keep his face hidden, but as a requirement for his space-time teleportation? When ever madara used his teleportation jutsu, he closed the distance with his target (Suggesting limited range) and looked at the target he wanted to teleport with his right eye. When he wanted to teleport sasuke, he held sasuke close to his right eye and sucked him in, with a bit of recoil as a result at Chapter 467 page 4-5. When he wanted to teleport himself, he would either look at an appendage of his or the inside of his mask. Since both parts are attached to him they would be drawn in, sucking him in aswell. At Chapter 510 the part of his mask that covered the area around his right eye was removed so he could no longer look at it in order to teleport himself, so instead he bought up his arm and attempted to teleport it instead, with his body going along for the ride. Should this be mentioned or should I not even try to add it without the manga stating it so? Ralneox (talk) 08:44, February 26, 2011 (UTC)Ralneox
 * Without the manga stating so things like these are normally chalked up to speculation--Cerez☺ (talk) 09:08, February 26, 2011 (UTC)

his migration technique
umm..why isn't it listed under its jutsu?its practically his main abillty,where did it go? time-space migration or something like that

Another bug with the info boxes.Umishiru (talk) 06:51, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

info
I like this website but the creator is kind of overrating it how in the hell would he know any of the chars birthdays
 * All the information we get are from official sources. That is, from Masashi Kishimoto or some other affiliated official sources. We don't make things up here. --Cerez☻ 21:11, March 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is why there are those two references in the infobox. ~SnapperTo 21:30, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Tobis eye hole on mask in anime first aperence
In his debut in anime tobis eye hole on mask is on his left side in stead on right side...Look [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/evbzw7.jpg[/IMG]Maybe we should write that in trivia...93.86.167.19 (talk) 18:31, April 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's from a youtube video that had mirrored to avoid copyright.--Deva 27 18:35, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

I didn't knew that not so inter(net)active...

Madara's right ARM
he has lost it several times, shouldn't it be wirtten ut in the trivia section? also, during the anime epsiode where he fight torune and fu, he breaks his arm off and instead of spewing out blood it seemed like it was made of white setsu's arm, anyone noticed this too? The Forgotten (talk) 17:14, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really trivia, already mentioned through the article, his arm looked like that in the manga as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:52, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, ok. But I'm really curious as to what is it, didn't look like human flesh at all The Forgotten (talk) 14:29, April 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * This isn't a form =| --Cerez365™☺ 16:55, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well its worth a mention in Apperance that when Madara removed his arm his arm wasnt anything human like but like white zetsu. Narutofox94 (talk) 01:47, May 4, 2011 (UTC)Narutofox94
 * Already mentioned in his article.--Cerez365™☺ 03:14, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Where at bc I read this article a lot and i dont remember that being mentioned. 74.207.179.180 (talk) 03:40, May 4, 2011 (UTC) Narutofox94
 * Read it again.--Cerez365™☺ 03:42, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * hey how about not being a dick and just tell me bc I just want to know and im about to go to bed.
 * I'm not being a "dick" read his article or use [Ctrl+F] and search for what you want in his article, it's mentioned several times. Also, please remember to sign your posts.--Cerez365™☺ 03:52, May 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know i think you still are bc you could have just said abilites. And I did find it bc I know the find thing but I thought you would just be nice enough to point that out to someone. The only moderators I really respect on here is omnibender. Its not like people thinking that you have to have the complete corpse for impure world ressurection that has been mentioned several times and on talk topics. But whatever Im done posting on here bc I know your going to say this isnt a forum 74.207.179.180 (talk) 03:56, May 4, 2011 (UTC)Narutofox94
 * Then we have something in common: I respect Omnibender as well, but we digress... I told you to use the search function because it's all over the article which was the initial point i was trying to make. I'm fine with being considered a dick either way. Btw, this is a forum.Cerez365™☺ 04:13, May 4, 2011 (UTC)

Glad we have something in common too. But no you told me to "Read it again". You could have just said "Read "Abilities" it is mentioned there.", I would have been done posting and wouldnt have even bothered any more of your "precious" time. People will misunderstand you if you say "Read it again" when they said they have read it a lot. It was only mentioned on abilites at the bottom of the page and was metnioned only there but im not completely sure. Just for future reference you shoulld say where it is mentioned under the article then you wont piss people off as much and maybe then i would have respected you more 74.207.179.180 (talk) 04:30, May 4, 2011 (UTC)Narutofox94

Madara standing.
When Madara desummons the Statue and reappears else where, the Statue isn't just behind him, but Madara is standing on it's hand. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 13:14, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

Why was it removed that when he resummoned the Statue, he was on it's hand? I think it's worthy of being noted? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 15:09, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

nature types.
What is the source of Madara's nature types? --Ilnarutoanime26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) 06:26, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Earth: He used Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique. Fire: this section. Lightning, Water, Wind: his Rinnegan. Yin & Yang: He used Izanagi. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:33, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. The three were gifts of Rinneg g an... Thank you. --Ilnarutoanime26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) 06:50, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Tsukuyomi
I know you don't add techniques characters haven't been shown using but shouldn't Tsukuyomi be an exception in this case. I mean it is his plan to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi so it is safe to say he can use Tsukuyomi. Or we can at least say Tsukuyomi(Presumed)--78.172.100.205 (talk) 18:23, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * But suppose his attempt to use Tsukuyomi is a bust? Then we'd be inaccurate in presuming yes? We can leave it until he casts it (if any at all)--Cerez365™☺ 18:29, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

madara's age
how old is madara i mean he has to be older than 100 and how did he live to such an age
 * If we knew, don't you think we would have written it in the article? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 05:27, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

Konoha was founded 96 years ago wasnt it ? He could be 40 years old by that time so I think he is 120-130
 * Not a forum, not a place to discuss this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:17, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

Well this is called talk page ... I know its not forum but people ask questions and you answer them and I see a lot of discussion up there ... but back to point, for example Yahiko have listed approx. 25-30 so for Madara something like xxx - xxx would be good ?--Elveonora (talk) 21:26, May 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * The anon user asked if there was an age, he (or she) didn't start a discussion, speculating on how old he is. I already removed some of that by another user today. We have that age listed for Yahiko because that's how he was described by Chōji to Tsunade during the Invasion of Pain, after Chōji escaped the Deva Path. We didn't pull that description out of thin air. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:33, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

text edit
I tried to change this myself but I'd need an account I believe to edit this page, but the line, "and all the clans they had conquered came," where is this ever said that they conquered all of them? 98.71.103.120 (talk) 05:32, May 26, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * It doesn't say all of Konoha's clans were conquered. It says that the clans they did concur joined Konoha. ~SnapperTo 17:36, May 26, 2011 (UTC)