Talk:Sword of Kagutsuchi

Image and article citations
I think this has been happening for a few other techniques/things here. Since when are we sure that what was done in the game and in the manga is the same? This seems like just a way to circumvent the discussion we had before where people thought that this might be an arrow and not a sword. Hence I don't think we should have that image nor the manga début there.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 07:14, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * While i myself think that we should seperate the sword/arrow of Amaterasu from Enton: Kagutsuchi, do to it's confusing nature, i must agree with you. It's not confirmed, and there's no full proof way to know. For now at least.71.71.58.231 (talk) 07:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan
 * Understood. Didn't mean to undermine the previous discussions on the matter, didn't even know there was much of question of whether or not Sasuke's been using an arrow, sword, or both. Anyways, I'll remove the image and manga debut... SaiST (talk) 15:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

It seems chapter 585 does not exist to you guys?--OmegaRasengan (talk) 16:17, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

What Omega said, I believe we should have had an article for it long ago--Elveonora (talk) 16:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is exactly for that reason why I brought this up. Sasuke pierced White Zetsu- given, some think with an arrow others with a sword. Y'all can't just usurp that discussion and say "hey, the game has a technique called sword of kagutsuchi so it must be what's in the manga". It can't work like that.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:03, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

My main problem with this is that when Sasuke used Kagutsuchi in his fight with Kabuto, he called the Amaterasu blade-thing Kagutsuchi.71.71.58.231 (talk) 17:23, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Yeah Cerez, look at Kabuto fight, he swiped what appears to be a Susanoo sword in Amaterasu flames--Elveonora (talk) 18:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cerez is just looking for an excuse to object to anything involving me. Again, chapter 585. Also, since when is not common for unnamed jutsu in the manga to be named in the games?--OmegaRasengan (talk) 18:56, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * True. The being named in games thing that is.71.71.58.231 (talk) 19:03, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Also arrows are fired from a bow, I see no bow in both instances--Elveonora (talk) 19:41, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Who's to say that he can't generate the arrows seperate from the bow?71.71.58.231 (talk) 20:16, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

He can, but let's call it a "blade" for a moment. For it to be an arrow, it has to serve as a projectile to be fired from a bow. He used the blade for melee, thus a sword and again against Kabuto--Elveonora (talk) 20:29, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why don't we use an intermediate term. One that could be used to denote to both Arrow and Sword. I'm not sure what that might be, but it would probably be the best thing to do 'til more light is shined on it.71.71.58.231 (talk) 20:42, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan


 * I think logically, it is a sword. He did stab Zetsu with it and then used it again during the battle against Kabuto. The game giving us something to actually call it merely gives us well, something to actually call it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 01:03, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

So you are for making it official I guess, so am I, Cerez is against tho, anyone else?--Elveonora (talk) 01:13, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well if everyone else thinks we should, then let's do it.71.71.58.231 (talk) 01:18, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

So it's official, Sasuke used an Amaterasu Sword against Zetsu and during his fight with Kabuto, right?--Itachi7000 (talk) 02:43, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ehhhh more or less.71.71.58.231 (talk) 02:55, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

So it means that the Amaterasu Sword should be clearly stated for not only this article, but for Sasuke's article and Susanoo article, right?--Itachi7000 (talk) 03:12, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kinda. Although it's very likely, we have no solid proof of it. My main problem with it is that during Sasuke's fight with Kabuto, he called the Amaterasu Sword Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi.71.71.58.231 (talk) 03:17, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

That's true, I mean its already stated in this article, but regardless, the weapon he used against Zetsu and Kabuto is a sword made from Amaterasu right? Cause if it is, I believe that the sword should be clearly stated in Sasuke's article and Sasuke's Susanoo article. Wouldn't we all agree on that?--Itachi7000 (talk) 03:28, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Jutsu or tool?
Now that the majority of us agree that he used the sword of black flames and it appears in the manga. I was looking the article and this doubt shot my head. It need to be considered a jutsu derrived from Kagutsuchi or a tool from his Susanoo and the Enton!? MaskedManMadara (talk) 14:33, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

The orb itself is a tool which produces black flames, but the blade is an application of shape transformation using those flames with Kagutsuchi, so it is a technique that uses a certain tool, like the Bashosen techniques for example.--BeyondRed (talk) 16:19, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * So I will bring up again my discussion in Enton that I asked if the orb is a tool and someone said to me that it isn't. 187.89.147.113 (talk) 21:46, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is created through a technique, so it is not a tool. It's simply an application of an ability, no more, no less.71.71.58.231 (talk) 22:00, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

I don't see how a chakra orbs counts as a tool, it's not an item--Elveonora (talk) 22:19, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

None of Susanoo's weapons can really be called tools then, can they? They are indeed applications of a technique and formed from chakra. Possible exceptions are Totsuka and Yata, but we really don't know the details behind Zetsu's comments on them.--BeyondRed (talk) 00:20, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's a Jutsu, since Sasuke did the same with Chidori and it wasn't labelled as a tool then. Seelentau 愛議 00:26, February 13, 2013 (UTC)

Why?
Why is this separate from the regular Kagutsuchi page? Kishimoto explicitly called it Kagutsuchi, and the last time I checked, video games and anime NEVER get priority over him.--Deva 27 04:16, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently you haven't seen the above discussion. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 04:53, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

This NOT an unnamed jutsu and should not be treated as such. KISHIMOTO called it KAGUTSUCHI, video games NEVER have the authority to over rule him.--Deva 27 22:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Before going ahead with editing the articles, wouldn't it have been better to wait for other user's opinions before changing them? Hasn't this happened before? (Not the edit thing, the video game/manga issue) --Questionaredude (talk) 23:03, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why wait for opinion when it is explicitly called Kagutsuchi in the manga? It was not an unnamed jutsu, and as such video games have no authority here.--Deva 27 23:14, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Right.~ Ultimate  Supreme  04:48, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Questionairedude. A decision should be made before editing something without hearing out what everyone else thinks. And it seems Deva is still not giving attention to the first discussion about this technique as this matter was already dealt with. Now another decision on the debuts has to be made again. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 05:38, March 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Deva, why on earth are you being so aggressive to everyone and reverting people's changes without reason ? If a decision was made to change the name because the video game named the technique, you can't just go around undo'ing everyone's edits and over-ruling the discussion and decision made. --Speysider Talk Page 21:49, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Manga
Sasuke clearly used this in the manga, just not named it. Like Blaze Release: Yasaka Magatama, shouldn't this be considered canon and have a chapter debut as well? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:04, June 3, 2013 (UTC)