Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-34938099-20180730091858/@comment-33286580-20180831021716

XShadyShadow wrote: 1)Well of course he used Susanoo to block it because he was distracted and Oonoki helped Naruto. What point are you making? Him using Susanoo doesn't matter given the circumstances. That doesn't give a point to Naruto at all. It means nothing.

and that is what the point... HELP. Oonoki gave a slight bit of help from his side and Naruto capitalised on the moment.

Remember Naruto has hundreds of clones at his disposal. Naruto has shown his intelligence in using said clones to distact enemies. Granted Madara wouldnt be that hard pressed as most ninjas, but a literal army of clones will keep him on feet and Naruto or a clone of his can strike.

Remember that was base Naruto Rasengan, something he can amplify times over in BM.

XShadyShadow wrote: 2) Kurama fears Madara, he also commands Perfect Susanoo. The point here is that it's implied Madara > Kurama. It's heavily implied, doesn't need to be shown.

Kurama feared the SHraingan and his tained Chakra. Eyes that can subjugate you without doing much is bound to be feared. the fact that Madara was the only known Uchiha to accomplish that feat before Obito made Naruto fear him indeed.

But fear does not mean that Madara had raw power greater that Kurama.

PS is apparently said to be on par with Biju and it just so happens that Kurama is the strongest. it is never stated that PS is greater the power of the BIju.

it is Deus Ex Machina power, similar to Hashirama, that was what feared.

XShadyShadow wrote: 3) It's more than just a fraction of a second and Madara wouldn't need to be on par with Itachi. Sasuke put killer bee under Genjutsu (Who has better synergy by far with the eight tails than Naruto does with Kurama for the record.) which aided in him dodging an attack. Sasuke got tagged after the fact because he let his guard down and Killer bee is faster. Madara is likely better at Genjutsu than Sasuke, he's faster than Naruto, and Naruto/Kurama don't have enough teamwork at this time to be better than Killer bee/Hachiibi.

Madara does not have any feats showing he is better than Sasuke in Genjutsu. it was never even implied. Madara's powers were shown to majorly focus on Ninjutsu. the only time he used a Genjutsu was the generic Sharingan one against one of the allied forces ninja he slaughtered.

Also. Yes at the begining when Naruto obtained the BM he wasnt completely synced with Kurama, but by the time he was fighting Juubito Naruto and Kurama's sync was such that they could share Chakra to the entire allied shinobi forces and in a way that it was natural to their chakra. There was hell lot of progression from when he fought the six Biju to his fight with Juubito.

Madara is faster than Naruto...DUDE... Naruto in KCM or BM is the fastest shinobi by the point and only those with Space-time jutsu can outdo him.

XShadyShadow wrote: 4) I'm sorry but Madara is dodging Rasenshiriken, takes too much prep time, and Madara was reacting to the raikage's speed.

what has prep time got to do with it. the point is from when it is thrown and it reaches its target. Naruto can aim in that time. and in no way can Madara outspeed Third Raikage's speed.

Also in KCM and BM there is literally no prep time for Rasenshuriken.

XShadyShadow wrote: 5) How does destroying wood clones relate to the wood dragon? The wood dragon also suppressed BM Naruto in his Kurama state by Madara's own useage.

Becuase wood dragons were Hashirama's one of the 2 main weapons when fighting PS and Kyubi in the Valley of the End. they were going head to head with PS and Kyubi.

Yeah. it was effective against BM, because wood dragons absorb chakra and Naruto was abundunt with it.

But Madara cannot use the jutsu because he is his EMS self and not hashi-boob self. so no points for Madara.

XShadyShadow wrote: 6 & 7) Naruto's Rasengan isn't doing damage to PS. In base Madara is too fast to get tagged by Naruto. PS tanked a tailed beast bomb, plus I'm certain Madara's sword slashes would cancel them out except Madara can swing faster than Kurama can charge a TBB. The barrages are faster but still take a bit of charge.

Naruto reacted to third Raikage, the fastest ninjas, with SM. with KCM stage 1 he outsped fourth Raikage at his fastest. He was so fast in KCM that he slapped away TBB like they were balls with which he hit a homerun and multiple at a time.

In no world is Madara faster than Naruto.

So a guy who literally outspeeds the fastest ninjas cannot dodge a mere slash. wow. oh... naruto can also simply go from BM to KCM, have the shortness advantage and blitz out of the way.

And Madara slashing TBB... they are nukes. you slash them they detonate on you. AND so far nothing of slashing TBBs has even been shown.

And, it is not like Naruto is going to stand directly fact to face with PS and fire at point blank. the guy will be at a distance doing so. they are long range attacks.

XShadyShadow wrote: 8) The Juubi far surpasses anything Naruto or EMS Madara can dish out. I'll check that out in a bit.

do check.

also. the fact that BM (half) tanked TBB of Jubi and Tenpachii, means he can easily stand to the slash of PS.

XShadyShadow wrote: 9)Just because you were keeping pace with someone momentarily doesn't mean you fight on par with them. Juubito >>>>>> BM Naruto easily.

And didnt i just say that. i did say he was just keeping pace.

but the fact is he was keeping pace with Juuubito, a guy Hashirama clearly states had gone far above his level. Oh and by the way, EMS Madara is below Hashirama in terms of power scaling.

SO BM can keep up with Juubito, but not with a far inferior EMS Madara. right.

XShadyShadow wrote: I'm using perfect logic, you just don't understand. By no admission am I saying that base EMS Madara >> Edo Madara. What I'm telling you is that Madara said he's stronger when he's alive and what he meant was his base stats meaning in terms of taijutsu i.e physical strength, speed and things of that nature. That's why he casually blitzed Naruto with no eyes. Edo Madara has stronger abilities, but is physically weaker.

Nowhere is it stated that Edo are physically weaker to the original.

Btw when was it stated that Madara was weaker to his living self. reference please.

XShadyShadow wrote: No, Madara absorbing Amateratsu was of his own accord. Look it up on the wiki, it's because of his own unique ability or something of that regard. You can absorb chakra without useage of the Rinnegan, the Rinnegan's useage is just the most potent.

First of all all Chakra absorbtion skills and jutsu absorb Chakra.

what Madara seemingly did was absorb Amaterasu. he absorbed a jutsu, a skill only Rinnegan possess.

Also on that note, did he really do it? looking back he discarded his armour wich was caught up in Amaterasu and by the manga panel it is clear the armour still had the flames burning.

there was a small bit of flames on Madara, but as implied that he absorbed those flames, then it can only possible throught Rinnegan's Preta Path.

XShadyShadow wrote: Yeah, Naruto waa caught off guard but I doubt it'd have made a difference. Alive Madara is too fast for Naruto. Anyways, this is overdrawn. Like I said before, Naruto here is literally outclassed.

Dude. the fastest shinobi ever (outside of FTG users) are the Raikage. it is specifically said so.

Naruto surpassed them in speed by long margin. he is the fastest shinobi alive.

Madara is fast, but no where near even the Raikage levels.

XShadyShadow wrote: EMS Madara is better than Naruto in almost every regard. The ONLY thing keeping BM Naruto in this fight is Kurama. Kurama and Naruto are also largely inexperienced working together as Madara has had tons of experience using his PS. PS alone dwarfed the five kage. I highly doubt BM Naruto in his Kurama state alone is beating the five kage.

Firepower - Susanoo SLash... TBB

Speed - Naruto BM hands down

NinJutsu - Rasengan and Rasenshuriken ultra variants trumph anything from Madara

Genjutsu - Madara

Please tell me how is Madara above BM Naruto.

Yes he has experience, but Naruto has overwhelming power.

Also once again, from the first time Naruto attained BM to the point of his fight with Juubito his connection with Kurama had become far superior. the fact that he could go BSM is the prime example... after all SM requires perfect balance to be a perfect Sage.

Yes. Naruto would beat the Gokage.