Talk:Black Zetsu

my my...
At this point, to me it is apparent that the time has become to split the articles. If not, then at least explain me a valid reason for why shouldn't we list "Zetsu" as Sharingan/Kamui user and all...--Elveonora (talk) 18:51, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Zetsu is wearing (or rather, being worn) by Obito. He's as much a Sharingan/Kamui user as Sasori is a Magnet Release user. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:53, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except it was BZ casting the Kamui, Obito is unconscious. Not to mention by your logic, Guruguru ain't 5 natures user or anything if it turns out he is attached to Yamato.--Elveonora (talk) 19:09, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Also as I stated on the main talkpage, BZ usage of Mokuton is also the same thing, yet it somehow is valid but this isn't--Elveonora (talk) 19:36, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * How is that different from Sasori using Magnet Release when the Third Kazekage is dead? And Yamato isn't known to use wind, fire and lightning, that's why Guruguru is assumed to use it. Either that or the statue is somehow a summon/entity of its own that has the five chakra natures, which I find more unlikely than Guruguru having them. If BZ and WZ were to be split, I'd be against listing BZ as a Mokuton user, as he's only done that while attached to a WZ part. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:49, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Like i've always been in agreeance with, The two article should be separated. After recent revelations, nothing can really oppose why they should.--Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 22:15, May 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * I really see no reason to say what my position is. Damn sure can already find it in Zetsu's talk page.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:20, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

add Kaguya Ōtsutsuki to the family
Shouldn't we add Kaguya Ōtsutsuki to the family of Black Zetsu


 * Until we know for sure how Madara failed sticking literally his own brain into Black Zetsu, no. We wait until next week.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:24, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

White Zetsu
Isn't he White Zetsu's clone brother too? ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 20:20, May 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Black Zetsu technically not a Zetsu. He was made from Madara's will, whereas White Zetsu was born from Hashirama's DNA. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:22, May 28, 2014 (UTC)

Quotes
should we split up the quotes? Maybe have BZ only on his page, and both of them in a quote on the main Zetsu page.--RexGodwin (talk) 00:18, May 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 01:50, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Status?
So, what should we add for him? Deceased? Incapacitated? Faust-RSI (talk) 06:35, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Deceased, he has served his purpose for Kaguya's revival--Elveonora (talk) 10:59, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not really. He didn't die, he just transmuted into another being so to speak. This is no different than Demonic Statue into Shinju. We didn't list it as deceased back then. Did we simply not change the statue's status or did we change to incapacitated when the Ten-Tails first appeared? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:12, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Demonic Statue and Ten-Tails articles should have been merged long ago tho since they are the same entity. BZ and Kaguya don't share consciousness--Elveonora (talk) 11:15, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * And Naruto could detect evil from the statue but not the Ten-Tails, clearly not the same entity. What you're suggesting is essentially that we merge Black Zetsu and Kaguya, which isn't going to happen. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:49, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Naruto could no longer detect the statue's chakra, not evil, because it transformed, with its chakra having changed. Also I didn't suggest that, BZ has his own consciousness and personality, he isn't Kaguya.

On the other hand, Gedo Mazo is pretty much a disabled Ten-Tails, they are the same entity.--Elveonora (talk) 12:02, June 4, 2014 (UTC) Except Gedo Mazo is a CoAT creation much like the tailed beasts, it's the leftovers/waste of the prime materials used in the creation of the tailed beasts, which wouldn't exist if Hagoromo hadn't created the other tailed beasts in the first place. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:53, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * This isn't going to become another "Statue should be merged with Ten-Tails" discussion, so that can stop right now. Black Zetsu's status, if he was used to turn Madara into Kaguya and then disappeared, would be listed under Incapacitated. Like Madara, so long as Kaguya lives, so to does the pieces that make her.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:27, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

"Gedo Mazo is CoAT creation" that was never stated anywhere. Gedo Mazo is the Ten-Tails with most its chakra taken away, it wasn't created from imagination and inhaled life into--Elveonora (talk) 13:55, June 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * Law of Conversion (Pretty sure I used that wrong). The nine tailed beasts were CoAT creations, and their creation is what turned the giant tree monster into a humanoid statue.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:00, June 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * So? It changed its form but hasn't lost its individuality. If I cut someone's limbs off, that won't make that person someone else. Gedo Mazo is the body/mind/soul whatever of the Shinju and I'm positive of that, that's why I'm clueless as to why are they separate. Each of its maturing form doesn't have a separate article either, Gedo Mazo is just one of its forms, the most weakened one--Elveonora (talk) 14:08, June 4, 2014 (UTC)

Recording Jutsu
So I think we finally should make an article about BZ's recording jutsu; we have more info and he was actually shown showing stuff to Naruto/Sasuke.--RexGodwin (talk) 16:15, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * And name it what? Black Zetsu's Recording Technique? Might suffice just mentioning it in his abilities section. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 16:18, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

so? would not be the first unnamed technique. :P--RexGodwin (talk) 16:20, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Right, but it might be unnecessary-Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 16:35, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Id argue its a pretty significant ability, unique to Black Zetsu thats been hinted at throughout like all of Part II. Certainly more noteworthy than 2 of his other unnamed jutsus; body splitting and root comunicating.--RexGodwin (talk) 16:37, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Considering this is stuff Zetsu just witnessed, couldn't it simply be super good memory that Kaguya can tap into? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:40, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

So Obito can tap into Zetsu too?--RexGodwin (talk) 16:40, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Good point, but I still don't think that warrants as a technique. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 19:26, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Like I said, more of a technique than that so called splitting technique.--RexGodwin (talk) 03:48, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

gender
Omni's voice echoing through my head: "the gender refers to biological gender" and if you insist on that, male should be removed from BZ's infobox, since he is a goo--Elveonora (talk) 13:18, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. I think it being listed male is a remnant of the Zetsu being Hashirama's clone that got debunked. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:02, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Black Zetsu refers to himself as Kaguya's "son" so he should be considered a male. If he considers himself a dude, so should we.--Kenny U (talk) 00:52, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * He uses "child" in the Japanese translation I believe. And even if he did consider himself male, I was told "gender" refers to biological sex here rather than the perceived mental and social identity, so shrugs--Elveonora (talk) 11:14, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Jutsu
Has BZ used anything other than maybe Sensing and that image playback thing itself? It seems like the kekkei genki, chakra nature, and jutsu it has in the infobox are being used by whatever body it's on at the time, if that's the case shouldn't we handle it like Sasori and the Third Kazekage? BZ carried the Rinnegan in it's eye area but did it ever use it on his own? I'm sure this has come up somewhere before but I couldn't find it to read the arguments already made. Arrancar79 (talk) 23:40, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

Try the "Dojutsu in Zetsu" section of Zetsu's talkpage. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 03:23, June 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, after reading through all the arguments I can't see a reason for BZ to have half of what's in its infobox and why this isn't the same situation as Sasori. Arrancar79 (talk) 05:14, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Mayfly issue
EDIT: Chap. 681, while Black Zetsu was on his own, he seems to be using Mayfly w/o the aid of White Zetsu mass. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 02:25, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure he's not just seeping through cracks and slits within via his malleable body? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 02:48, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * He passed through a tree as well, prior to entering the lab.--Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 03:07, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * What chapters did he do this? Arrancar79 (talk) 05:10, June 26, 2014 (UTC)


 * Like i wrote above, chapter 681. Likely page 14 or 15 -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 05:52, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Nah, he is a liquid, he can slip through everything--Elveonora (talk) 11:58, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * That makes no sense though. look at this -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 14:02, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Earth Release? :P--Elveonora (talk) 14:07, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Is it really that hard to accredit it to Mayfly.... or would you rather this; that good ol' umbrella technique for everyone that travels through something. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 14:45, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

-_-' Bump. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 05:07, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. Mayfly is most likely related to Hashi's cells. Kurozetsu simply crawled through the thin spaces in the rock. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:25, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

BZ's or not:
Ok so from what I have seen from the anime and manga, Black Zetsu isn't an Artificial Human but an Artificial Being, he is in no way human as we all know he is the will or part of the will of Kaguya but he is an intelligent being. Not only that but the complete Mayfly technique seems to me is a collaboration jutsu between Black and White Zetsu and when they are separated they can probably just use the parts of the Mayfly as weapons/roots in battle both of them I'm guessing which is still the Mayfly jutsu and makes sense. And finally Black Zetsu is basically like the symbiotes in Marvel aka like Venom, he only had access to the sharingan when attached to Obito and controlling his body its not his own jutsu in anyway think of it like Ino took over someone like Kabuto's mind and he had the chakra scalp activated already. So sharingan powers not his just controlling and using them through Obito's body. Oh and come on White Zetsu is the one that can absorb chakra as a unique trait, Black Zetsu's recording ability should be stated as his unique trait and not a jutsu unless he called it a juts oh and also controlling bodies. Sorry for the long post love to see what you guys thinkWilliam000 (talk) 05:22, June 29, 2014 (UTC)William000 (talk) 05:20, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Both Zetsu can absorb chakra. Black Zetsu just did it in chapter 681, and White Zetsu's Parasite Clones (and the army clones) can absorb chakra, so there's no reason to assume the original can't as well. That said, it isn't currently listed in his infobox. As for Black Zetsu being able to use Mayfly on his own or not, see the above section.--BeyondRed (talk) 05:45, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

Kaguya's child
Wouldn't Zetsu here be considered Kaguya's "child" (no confirmed gender) and Kaguya be his "mother", since Black Zetsu refers Kaguya as such? That would go in the infobox, right? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:34, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not in a biological sense, so no.--Elveonora (talk) 14:31, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

Mangekyō Symbol?
He didn't have Itachi's eye, he had Obito's. The symbol should be changed to Obito's MS Officialkamuiblade (talk) 15:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)Officialkamuiblade
 * The coding doesn't allow for that. Itachi's Mangekyō is the default so that's what it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 18:58, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yay, looks like I could do it *feeling cool* --JOA20 (talk) 19:17, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox image
Shouldn't we use File:BZetsutrueform.png as the image for the info-box? Since it's his true and full form, while the current is only half of him covering a part of White Zetsu. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 00:41, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

no. Being attached to WZ is his most seen form for like 99% of his role in the series. Same reason why theres Obitos most recognizable mask in his infobox. Also the manga pic is just that.. not colored, and awkwardly angled. --RexGodwin (talk) 05:05, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Name
Should we mention somewhere, maybe in trivia, that his real name is unknown or he doesn't have one, and that "Black Zetsu" is just what Madara came up with thinking it was his "will"? Faust-RSI (talk) 05:35, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except for the fact that he refers to himself as "Black Zetsu" too. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 05:46, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's irrelevant. See Yamato or Sai. Faust-RSI (talk) 05:47, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * That is very relavent, because unlike the those two, Black Zetsu had never hinted at having another name. The fact that he calls himself Black Zetsu, until he is actually called by another name is his name.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:02, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Shikotsumyaku
Sorry, but taking account of his KG for being a parasite, does he not technically have Shikotsumyaku as well? He was controlling Kaguya's arm to fire the bone, so, to stay in line with him having all of Obito;s KG, he should be listed as a user of Shikotsumyaku as well. &#34;Demons run when a good man goes to war.&#34; (talk) 09:29, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup.--Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 09:37, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess, the guy has any powers of the body he is attached to--Elveonora (talk) 10:00, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * He is Kaguya's will, I'm not that surprised he can use her (= his own) techniques. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:10, August 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Does it really make sense to list BZ as having these kekkei genkai? Because he doesn't, really. He has access to the bodies that have access to them, which isn't the same as having access to them himself. Is Fu a user of Byakugan because of when he took control of Ao's body? ~SnapperTo 17:51, September 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * But Black Zetsu actually used techniques with the lent KKG, unlike Fu--Elve Talk Page 18:49, September 25, 2014 (UTC)

possible addition
so guys I think there is no information from chapter 656 & 665 both last pages, I think we have to include it, If you don't get what I mean read the last comment , I think Obito is using Black Zetsu he is controlling him and making a Shajuko. And we have to include that Black Zetsu body can form Shakujo. I want to change the content in article, It is written that it is made of black mass, I think the term is misleading, what it should be written instead of that is, it is made of same substance as Truth-Seeking ball, anyone agrees with me?Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 04:26, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Just because Black Zetsu and the TSB are both black, we're not going to add the theory of BZ and the TSB being the same substance unless there is factual evidence. Both are black. And that's it. We're not adding that to the article, this isn't the Naruto Fanon Wiki. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 04:33, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think you misunderstand, there is the factual evidence Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 08:07, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you prove that it wasn't Black Zetsu retiring because scared of the danger the TSB would pose?--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 08:34, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you notice Obito's hand partially left uncovered? 'in ch 665 the end page', Obito was jinchuriki for a while so he was able to control Black Zetsu Obito overpowered Black Zetsu after Black zetsu absorbed Kurama, he could mould Black Zetsu into Shakujo, we can see him impaling Madara and in ch 666 we can see Obito using Shakujo to deflect the Madara's TSB by rotating that stick, Black Zetsu did want to retire in the first place. Okay I'll not add the speculations but I'll add his part was formed into Shakujo, if that's okay.--Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 16:38, December 19, 2014 (UTC)

Black Zetsu is a "He" not an "It"
Black Zetsu refers to himself as Kaguya's son, and other characters refer to him as a "He". Literally no one in the entire run of the manga has ever referred to him as an "it", so why does his wiki page use that pronoun? We should change it to "he" and "him". --Kenny U (talk) 18:03, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because 1) there is no he/she in Japanese. 2) because he most likely used the word ko, which means child. 3) because it's not a human being, but an artifical life form. 4) even if we were not to use it, we would use she, because it's Kaguya's will, who in turn is a woman. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:19, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Does the JP version really have characters using "it" for him? 2) Black Zetsu refers to himself as Kaguya's son. It doesn't matter if he's Kaguya's will, he clearly views himself as a male, so we should too. --Kenny U (talk) 18:37, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Child, not son. Also no penis and testicles = not a he.--Elve Talk Page 19:03, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * What Tau and Elve said. 19:05, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kenny U, I'm talking about the Japanese version, not the English fan translations. I don't know if they say it, but that doesn't matter anyway. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:11, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Years late, but isn't he called Kaguya's third 息子 not just 子? FF-Suzaku (talk) 21:10, December 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * We still list only biological gender. The entire 'gender is what you feel like and how you identify yourself' is a modern idea that has no basis in genetics or biology. If sexual reproduction has not taken place to produce BZ and BZ can't perform sexual reproduction, then there is no gender to speak of. We can still note if BZ considers itself to be Kaguya's son, though.--Elve Talk Page 22:56, December 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Dunno, if he's called 息子, he's a "he", obviously. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:07, December 20, 2018 (UTC)

Six Paths Technique
He is a user of it, when he coated Obito he used the Rinne Rebirth Technique. Its like Zetsus usage of Kamui and All Killing Ashbones--Keeptfighting (talk) 22:28, August 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope. He forced Obito to use the technique, he didn't use it himself. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:31, August 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thats the same thing, using someones Body when they cant/didnt want to resist and forcing someone. Fact is he coats a opponent and force them to use Jutsu by using his will. Are they in a state like Obito, after returning from the Kamui Dimension OR shortly after the Ten-Tails was removed from him.--Keeptfighting (talk) 00:01, August 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * Zetsu didn't form the hand seals, Obito did.--Mina [[Image:Uzushiogakure Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 00:50, August 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * But Obito wanted to revive the Allied Shinobi forces but BZ forced him to use it on Madara, Obito could have "just" canceled it, but BZ will was stronger and so BZ "took over" that Jutsu--Keeptfighting (talk) 11:06, August 27, 2015 (UTC)
 * It was still Obito who used it. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:44, August 27, 2015 (UTC)

consistency
Would it be preferred for all articles to refer to BZ as "it" or "he"? Asking because Body Coasting article refers to BZ as male--Elve Talk Page 14:21, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * If anything, being the will of Kaguya makes BZ a she. But yeah, BZ should be acknowledged as "it".--Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:27, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it should be "it". --JouXIII (talk) 14:31, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Same here, since BZ isn't actually human, it cannot have a gender whatsoever. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 14:35, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Changed the Body Coating-article. --JouXIII (talk) 15:50, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Hiding with Camouflage Technique?
I'm not entirely sure, so I'll ask: Should BZ be added as a user of the Hiding with Camouflage Technique? It materialised in front of Indra, though I'm not really sure if it used this technique, given that it burst into this weird purple wind afterwards, too. Might have used something different instead at that time, though. Your thoughts? Norleon (talk) 13:16, June 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bump. Norleon (talk) 06:00, June 17, 2016 (UTC)

It had the same hazy look as other people using the technique. I say yes.--Steveo920 (talk) 07:41, June 17, 2016 (UTC)