Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-142748-20150410212019/@comment-142748-20150411081557

ItachiXHinata wrote: I do believe Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are unique to Itachi due to the fact MS will awake different techniques for each users, such as Kamui or Koto Amatsukami. The strongest point about Tsukuyomi is that it can manipulate the perception of time, so Hashirama's psyche can be tortured instantly before he can break Tsukuyomi. And Itachi, as a master of genjutsu isn't need eye contact to apply genjutsu like when he pointed at Naruto or counter Kurenai (jonin-class genjutsu user) with easy. And Amaterasu may be a counter to Mokuton, due to the fact that it has never been stopped from other jutsu but sealing technique. Amaterasu won't disappear so it will burn the forest constantly with Itachi only activated it once, which help him saving a lot of charka. And I don't think Mokuton Ryu can absorb Amaterasu. Sasuke can only use Amaterasu because Itachi give it to him, and transplanted Itachi's eye help his EMS level up Amaterasu to be shaped - Kagutsuchi. It's noted in databook Amaterasu is highest lv in Katon, and it can spread constantly Furthermore, there is no detail that Madara was better than Itachi in genjutsu. Madara's genjutsu feat was manipulate Kurama, and he can do the same as well as Sasuke. Or would you say Madara's genjutsu can beat KotoAmatsukami, which is a tie-level with Tsukuyomi. Itachi was believe to be one of the most powerful genjutsu user in Naruto, believed that he can manipulate people outside of Sensor Division's range. Obito marks his Tsukuyomi, alongside with Koto Amatsukami the most powerful genjustu of Uchiha (when fighting DAnzo i believe) His use of Susanoo is on a different lv compared to Sasuke or Kakashi (whom only get perfect form due to Obito being jinchuuriki) he uses weak form to do the most sufficient work His only disadvantage is the low amount of charka so he has no hope for long fight. But assuming Itachi at his edo tensei form (but not immortal), no sickness, no blind,..his charka amount would be like Sasuke with EMS (databook gave idea that his low charka was due to the sickness and he was dying day by day) Itachi would atleast tie in the end. Beside he still has Izanami, Izanagi (which Hashirama didn't see before cause Madara saved Izanagi to revive) Tsukuyomi is the only technique unique to Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan, but Sasuke's own Mangekyo possessed the technique innately, in a completely different eye. So saying he only has it because of Itachi is a bit of misinformation you got.

He caught a post-timeskip Naruto in a genjutsu and Kurenai broke the reflected genjutsu. Not a good enough feat to catch the strongest Hokage till Naruto came into his own. And Itachi was never said to be the most powerful genjutsu user in Naruto. That title actually belonged to Fukasaku and Shima, with Shisui being the best genjutsu user in the Uchiha Clan. Ao said Itachi could take control of individuals and then keep said control outside the sensor range. However, Obito and Madara both are superior to Itachi in the area of genjutsu due to having better feats as I repeatedly pointed out.

Mokuton Ryu would easily be able to absorb Amaterasu. Its made of chakra after all. Izanagi and Izanami are useless against Hashirama and Itachi would weaken himself so he couldn't even use his best techniques.

Your post just has a lot of things wrong and you need to reassess things. Oh and Itachi can't use Kotoamatsukami. Its not part of his arsenal since Shisui's eye was inactive while he was alive. Inactive eye means he can't use it. So you can't give him that technique.

ItachiWasAHero wrote: Itachi has only shown knowledge of Izanagi not usage so your post was fine until you mentioned Izanagi. Also Hashirama was not a genjutsu master he only had ONE genjutsu which of course was not really that effective since a 69yr old Hiruzen just needed his nose to beat it. Hashi does not have MS so he can't beat Tsukuyomi. Madara did not have Kotoamatukami, Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi and only Izuna was hinted to have Amaterasu and thats it. Hashirama has no counter against Utakata or Tsukuyomi, or even Amaterasu. Also @Saiya your question about Utakata and Susanoo combo? yes he easily should be able to in fact it should be ultra simple and nothing says he can't at all Itachi showed three genjutsus total over the course of the manga, yet you consider him a master. Hashirama's one genjutsu is insanely broken and hard to defend against, so you can consider him a master. Hell it was probably developed to battle Uchiha given the way its used.

And I know Madara doesn't have Tsukuyomi or Kotoamatsukami. However, his genjutsu (as well as Obito's) were on the level of the former and the latter with the base Sharingan from feats. Tell me this: if Itachi was better than Madara or Obito in genjutsu, why was his genjutsu so easily broken by Killer B, while Yagura, a Kage Perfect Jinchuriki, couldn't break Obito's? And Madara's weaker...even though he does the exact same thing that Itachi's Tsukuyomi can do with a base Sharingan.

Ukatata doesn't factor in at all in this match. Its a too low level jutsu to be effective. Not to mention the range the match starts at he can't get it off. Stop acting like its a super broken genjutsu when its only feat was on a post-Timeskip Naruto who had yet came into his own. Genjutsuing Naruto isn't a feat especially if he can resist it.

And no, you can't claim that. Itachi's only used one technique at a time. He's never shown he can multi-jutsu at all in the manga.