Talk:Flying Thunder God Technique

Kanji on Technique Formula
Can someone translate the kanji on the technique formula on this pic? I could only make out the first kanji 忍 (nin, endure) and last 絶 (zetsu, absolute). Can't tell the second one if it's awakening (kaku, as in kakusei), and the third seems to have something to do with talisman. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 19:37, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Check this out. Skitts (talk) 19:40, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. But I checked a little more, and I think I have the basic boiled down to this: the second kanji is kaku 覚, third is fu 符, and the last is zetsu 絶. ? I already left this translation at ShounenSuki's page, but still, here would be a possible for everyone to determine its validity. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 19:49, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Because Kanji is japanese using chinese symbols for literally the exact same words, I used google translate to get the symbols. The 2nd kanji isn't 覚 meaning awakening. What I got was 忍交符绝, which if you take those and put them into google translate and translate either detect language or chinese into english you get Endure Cross Symbol Absolutely. Now I'm not saying that's EXACTLY what it is, because I don't know how to read Japanese or Chinese. I went to this site, http://www.saiga-jp.com/language/kanji_list.html, and looked at all the Kanji they had. The closest one to the 2nd kanji for the FTG formula I found in the 2nd grade set. Where it says "Grade 2 (160 characters)  available contents: basic informations, stroke order image, pronunciation audio", right at the edge of the light blue box, go to the 3rd Kanji on the right past the box and you get 交. Now I down't know what these are pronounced as in japanese, but Cross actually sounds fitting due to the use of this technique. 8.27.210.170 (talk) 15:55, November 16, 2012 (UTC) Connor 9:54, November 16, 2012 UTC-06:00

hirashin lv 2 or hirashin has 2 steps
because NS 248 was out,... so, which one is true?? there is hirashin lv 2 or hirashin has 2 steps??? sorry for my bad english... 182.1.201.171 (talk) 08:34, February 10, 2012 (UTC)FantasticGirl
 * This. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 08:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Picture Slideshow
Why are we using that slideshow? The first and second pictures are at angles that do not properly show Minato teleporting. The one where he teleported to Mahiru's foot is more accurate. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 08:00, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * The single image of his with his hand on Mahiru's foot O.o? I know that the sequence in there now is not the best to illustrate the technique (this would be one of the only times I'd support us using .gifs) but one image can and probably will never, properly display the technique.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:06, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * How about one image of Mahiru alone, then the next, Minato teleports to his foot? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:54, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the scene doesn't play out like that in the anime, as the beginning of that particular event is depicted in close-up, so currently the sequence that is being used is the most viable one. Other than waiting for the scene where Minato confronts A, there is little alternative than to stick with what's already there, although maybe the addition of some concise descriptions to the images could help clarify what is actually occurring. Blackstar1 (talk) 00:54, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was also waiting on the A vs. Minato clash to see if better series of images could come from there since that's the best scene(s) with them. So why not simply use them now? I know it's been depicted in the anime, but those images show the technique best.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:13, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I didn't watch that two-parter close enough to notice, so let's wait for A vs Minato and hope for the best there. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 02:31, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes but what about changing it now O.o It'd look like this: Much easier to follow and such ye?--Cerez365™ 02:42, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Not enough background, looks like its from 3 different chapters. --Gojita (talk) 13:26, March 12, 2012 (UTC)Gojita
 * Cerez's gallery seems best. Looks like a good display/summary of the technique to me Skitts (talk) 14:47, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not too sure, as I think the flow of either sequence suffers greatly from the severe angle changes that are present in both, meaning that someone's preference becomes more dependent upon how acquainted they are with the particular scenes. It's a shame that the "two steps" of the technique haven't been clarified, as the inclusion of short descriptions could have really helped. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:47, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Not too sure what "not enough background" means O.o People are already (or at least should be) well acquainted with how the technique works given that it has appeared in all Naruto-related mediums. This is simply a case where we'd use manga images to depict the sequence of event which could be aided by descriptions with the images: "Minato scatters his kunai over the battlefield" "is able to move from one location to another marked location" etc for example. It's a bit regressive, but with the policy that prohibits the use of .gif files, I don't think any of the current images can "really" show the technique.--Cerez365™ 16:33, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well if concise descriptions are to be included, then I'm fine with using the manga sequence, given that it has better clarity and that I'm under the impression it depicts how Minato is implied to typically employ the technique (i.e. scattering numerous kunai). Blackstar1 (talk) 16:59, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia point
So I'm not sure, maybe I'm interpreting it wrongly (and I don't think asking the author will help much) but is there a point to having a trivia point that says: "In the games, most of Minato's ultimate techniques involves teleporting behind his opponent using Rasengan." I mean, isn't that Minato's whole fighting style O.o.--Cerez365™ 00:48, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

well, we don't have enough battle scenes with Minato in canon, so we can't really know yet--Deathmailrock (talk) 07:09, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Hiraishin Lv 2
should we add in the trivia section that in the indonesian version of the volume, there is hiraishin lv 2..??  

minato says "inilah hiraishin level dua (english: that(this) was hiraishin lv 2)"...

sorry for my bad english... ^.^ 182.1.131.22 (talk) 09:57, March 18, 2012 (UTC)Jengkol
 * All versions said that. It was a mistranslation that was cleared up here.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:17, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

random here just wanna add how the flying thunder god jutsu seems to be more about reverse summoning than anything else mentioned in its article.
 * Okay. What is in the article is pretty much a direct translation from the databook.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:31, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Just wondering on the Users of the technique
Didn't Naruto use this in chapter 544? or was that something else?

No Naruto didn't use hiraishin no jutsu, he just used the immense amount of speed granted by the 9-tails chakra mode. Yamato just likened it to the hiraishin no jutsu.71.71.58.70 (talk) 09:37, September 14, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

I disagree. I think Naruto did use it. He learned it from his dad during their time together. Both Tsunade and Bee thought it looked "just like a yellow flash". I'm sure A fought with many Jinchurikis before, first example being Bee himself who has an excellent bond with Hachibi, yet it is still said "naruto is the second to ever evade it". Therefore I think it's no coincidence, speed and Biju power isn't enough to dodge it - Naruto can not only USE flying thunder god, he perfected it (like he did with Rasengan, his dad's other S-level technique) 62.219.147.167 (talk) 10:49, November 28, 2012 (UTC) Kobi Mangafan
 * The Flying thunder god technique requires a seal at the place where the user wants to go. Naruto hasn't placed out any seals.
 * The Flying thunder god technique summons a person to the seal, thus no movement and no flash.
 * Minato didn't get the nickname "yellow flash" from using the Flying thunder god technique, but from his "normal" speed. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 11:19, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

It was just a body flicker my god...--Elveonora (talk) 19:08, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Level 2 and game
So, I was checking new gameplay video, and it seems that, at least for video game purposes, they do consider the "level 2" a different technique, it's Minato's ninjutsu during awakenings in UNS3. They called it "Flying Raijin: Second Stage", that's probably 飛雷神二の段, which we would translate as "Flying Thunder God: Second Step". Looks like the same thing he did against Obito, the action in the video was a bit fast, but that's what it looked like. That'll probably be created for video game, but the question is, do we consider it a separate technique manga and anime wise as well? I know we always considered it just an explanation of the technique itself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:10, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

No, "Flying Thunder God Technique Level 2" sounds stupid as an article. But if a videogame names them separately, we will do so... so canonical article nope, but two game articles yep if that bothers you ;)--Elveonora (talk) 23:19, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * The video game technique "Flying Thunder God: Sequential Steps" was most likely named after what the manga called "Flying Thunder God: Second Step". It wouldn't be anything "new". What I wonder is if we should do like it was done with Sasori. There were at least a few of his techniques in the manga and anime that were never named, but named in the video games, so those were used. I don't know if they were considered techniques in their own right before the games came out, that happened way before I knew what Naruto was. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:45, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Those 2 Sasori's techniques were unique, this is flying thunder god no matters how you look at it. Would be like making a separate article for the ranged variant of Rasenshuriken. Also what about this? http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Flying_Thunder_God_Technique/Archive_1#About_the_so-called_Hiraishin_Level_2 --Elveonora (talk) 01:31, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. I liken it to when one technique is used a new way and although the newly named technique is simply a different way to use the very same technique. I think of it like the naruto uzumaki 2k barrage vs the original naruto uzumaki barrage.98.26.246.74 (talk) 01:50, November 7, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

If the game lists it as a technique then I believe we should add it as a game technique without letting one media colour the other. Maybe make a note that in the canon series it's a misconception about the "two steps" and such.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 08:33, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Dodging
How does he know when to dodge the attack of a lightning-fast punch from A? Minato may be fast, but it dosen't increase his reflexes.--Aeonophic (talk) 21:25, November 18, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic
 * It gives him the advantage by only requiring him to notice the attack is coming, not try and maneuver out of the way, the seal does it for him. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:45, November 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * He dodges it at the last possible moment. Though Minato has good reflexes, it's not something that he does reflex-wise, to me at least, it seems as though, A was simply an inch away from punching Minato and the speed of his technique allowed him to fly in that short gap of time.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:46, November 18, 2012 (UTC)

Debut
ya know in the first episode and chapter of the series, in the very beginning; Minato and Gamabuna are briefly shown fighting Kurama.. and theres a bright flash ending the flashback.. so im pretty sure that is the first official debut of Hiraishin.--RexGodwin (talk) 05:11, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except Hiraishin doesn't give off light. A bit in the games, but not in the manga and anime. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:09, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Flying Thunder God Slash
I had a hunch that this day would possibly come ever since Mianto said Tobirama could use Jikukan Ninjutsu. Any way, I just wanted to know if anyone could find a source for where it says that Minato created this technique? I tried to find databook translations, but was not successful.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:24, March 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * There's a reference to second databook, too lazy to check it out lol. If the kanji are mostly the same, then I doubt it's just a coincidence--Elveonora (talk) 15:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was hoping we could find an English translation. None from ShounenSuki though or at mangahelpers who are very good at this. I'll still check though.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:42, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Can't find anything either :-/--Elveonora (talk) 15:50, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * According to this (not too sure it counts as a link that shouldn't be there) it does say a technique of the Fourth Hokage. Though that still doesn't say he invented or engineered it. Omnibender could actually confirm it better than me, as I actually speak Spanish, not Portuguese.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:51, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps Sasuke invented Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique by himself but the concept existed earlier on just like perhaps Minato took what Tobirama had and improved upon it--Elveonora (talk) 16:01, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

That scanlation says nothing we don't know or list already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:05, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's more how we word it, rather than what's actually there. We have accurate information and everything, but there's a huge difference when we say "used by Minato Namikaze" as opposed to "created by Minato Namikaze". Going forward it could make the difference.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:46, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sempai, i can speak Portuguese (actually i am that) and there is nothing in that link you posted that states that Minato invented the technique, only that his use of it was what made him famous. Minato may have improved the technique, he maybe better at it than Tobirama, but we have zero evidence that he was it's creator...add that to the how he slapped himself and the Second as space-time technique users and now this technique, with virtually the same name...yeah i think i make myself clear. Darksusanoo (talk) 02:52, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aye, you did. The changes have been made already.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:13, March 23, 2013 (UTC)

Inventor?
Was this technique indeed created by Minato? The reference provided in the article for the info, which is the 2nd databook, says nothing of such. The 2nd databook simply says the technique is Minato's technique. I think that the line came to be in the article when some Minato-fan created or edited the article. This is why any info not EXPLICITLY supported by canon should never be allowed in here. Original research or "intelligent deductions" should be limited as much as possible. NoJutsu (talk) 04:47, March 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you had bothered to look at the section above the one you created you'd have seen that the community was already discussing the issue. Stop blowing it out of proprtion, it was neither research nor intelligent deductions, it was a poor word choice from a translation. Notice since you have the databook translation at hand, that the article is possibly near word-for-word of it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:58, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

Minato and formula
Unless I'm missing something, Minato used FTG by the end of the chapter the same way Tobirama did, both simply touched another Hokage and all vanished. Unless it's revealed Minato's tags are very resistant to lots of stuff and persist through years, and that he tagged lots of random locations before his death, I don't see how he could have teleported to his own face in the Hokage Mountain. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:49, April 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * I just don't get it. Nothing indicated that they used Hiraishin at all. All that seemed to happen was they used super-speed or the Body Flicker Technique to move quickly to their respective heads. And can you guys check my question on Tobirama's talk page?
 * [edit] Hm, I see them touching the shoulders of the other Hokage. Skitts (talk) 22:51, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

I can't explain how the seal persisted so long, especially considering his death, but Minato does appear to teleport to his own face in the Hokage Mountain in Chapter 502 (page 6). Blackstar1 (talk) 23:00, April 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Which is part of the reason I think they might've just used the BF. o3o Skitts (talk) 23:08, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

They obviously used hirashin, Tobirama touched Hashirama and Minato marked Sarutobi. Also Omni, you are forgetting the seal was already placed on the monument during QB attack--Elveonora (talk) 23:42, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Minato marked Hiruzen? Er, what? And Omni's whole point is that unless there is something special about Minato's tags (i.e they don't deteriorate from the elements), then there's no explanation how he (or Tobirama) can be said to have used Hiraishin in this instance.
 * [Edit] And I'd like to point something out. Based on these 2 pages (627pg13 & 627pg16), they were already directly above the Hokage monument, so I don't see why they would've had to have used Hiraishin to move a few dozen feet forward, minus just the BFT. So, I petition we remove any mention of Tobirama having Hiraishin until he actually uses it, or mentions that he knows it. Skitts (talk) 23:55, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

What about the sound effect when they touch them? And Hashirama orders Tobirama to use Hirashin in the shrine if you forgot--Elveonora (talk) 23:58, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * The sound effect, I dunno. In the translation I read, Hashirama just says that they were going to fly outside the Naka Shrine. We should get Seelentau to check this out when the raws are released. Skitts (talk) 00:01, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

No links to scanlations. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:05, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

He still says Hirashin and meant for transport, thus his usage at least of it is undoubtful--Elveonora (talk) 00:11, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * He mentions that "We can't use the Hiraishin, we're bound." I agree that could indicate he knows it, or a goof ON Kishi's part in that he knew that Minato knew the technique (not the first time Kishi's made a goof like that lately, i.e Hashi and Tsunade). Skitts (talk) 00:18, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

whoever said that his tags disappear with his death or that that wear away with natural weathering? speculation right there--208.124.127.18 (talk) 02:13, April 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think all Tobirama/Minato did was "mark" the other two Hokage. If they had flown, the smoke would've appeared like it always does. They could be planning on using it now/next chapter.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 02:38, April 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Jutsu are held together by the chakra of the user. At death their chakra disappears. And so do the Jutsu. I always thought that the kunai he had the seals engraved on were still there.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 02:40, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree it was the flying thunder god, and no jutsu do not all the time disappear with the death of their user. hence itachi amaterasu sealing in sasuke before he first met madara (tobi), and any type of sealing jutsu actually makes that statement null. if their jutsu was only held together by their chakra and it broke apart with their death then the nine tails seal would of broken when the 4th died. same with the reanimation jutsu, although it directly states it would not end that way. since the flying thundergod was mention several times, and both the hokage knowing it made physical contact with the two that didn't before vanishing and reappearing at the hokages heads, accompanied by the sound effects used for the flying thunder god, I am inclined to believe that is what was used. --208.124.127.18 (talk) 06:30, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

@Cerez, the smoke wasn't always there, I remember Minato using it at least twice without it, the smoke ISN'T part of the technique, just an effect, kinda like a trope of sorts--Elveonora (talk) 12:58, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Naruto as a user
Er, when did Naruto ever use FTG? I don't recall him using it once in any movie. --Reliops (talk) 15:41, April 11, 2013 (UTC)Reliops

I don't see him.~ Ultimate  Supreme  16:16, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

It was quickly removed. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 16:20, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

File:Naruto_defeats_Menma.png, here?--Samemaru 23:32, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not because the scene looks similar means Naruto used the Flying Thunder God Technique.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 00:12, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

All we know is that he somehow managed to catch the thrown Kunai, likely body flicker--Elveonora (talk) 09:21, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

The Four Hokage
The Four Hokage each used it individually to warp to Kunai placed by minato. Review the chapter before removing them from the user's box. Tobirama didn't touch them, and they warped to different locations around the 10 tails, each one of them appearing in front of the prior placed Kunai. Skarrj (talk) 11:31, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * They aren't users, they simply have the sealing formula placed by either Minato or Tobirama on them, it's the two who transported 1st and 3rd to the Kunai--Elveonora (talk) 11:37, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed, they were marked which is why they asked Minato if he had placed them for the barrier when they got there.Umishiru (talk) 11:40, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Funny how people would like to credit everything to everyone. Now 4 Hokages using Hirashin and the other guy making Naruto and Hashirama users of the same technique, please take that to fanfic wiki until confirmed--Elveonora (talk) 11:43, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume over the Tori seal? I was gonna make a topic about it. At most a See about section should be put on one of the two jutsu pages.Umishiru (talk) 11:45, May 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Also, I was wroung about Hashirama, he didn't actually move and kept current location- Hiruzen did however warp.. They OBVIOUSLY were marked. Minato is the only one who has the Kunais. But simply having a marked Kunai or knowing one exists does not mean you can teleport to it. They simply share a channel through which they teleport and because of that the seal is indiscriminate, meaning anyone who can use the technique can teleport through the marker. Observe pages 8 and 9 again please. Minato, Tobirama and Hiruzen aren't touching or even directly by one another. Hiruzen only asks if the Kunai are in their correct places, because to use the barrier technique they had to assume the four cardinal directions. So the kunai had to be in specific spots, which is what Hiruzen was verifying. Sakura also states on the next panel that they instantly vanished. And they each teleport to a Kunai far apart from one another. Minato and Tobirama didn't assist Hiruzen, he used the technique of his own accord, and warped to a location far from the ones that Tobirama and Minato used. Skarrj (talk) 11:47, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Who said the technique allows the user to teleport only to marked targets and not also teleporting the marked targets themselves elsewhere?--Elveonora (talk) 11:54, May 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Page nine shows Minato telling the two hokage to come to him, then he raises his arms to touch them from behind. He's the one doing the teleporting.
 * Anonymous

Hiruzen, Tobirama and Minato. They all use "hand seal" itself to go to the kunai that Minato mark .. 141.0.8.195 (talk) 17:23, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * They use hand seal after they are already teleported to use the barrier--Elveonora (talk) 18:20, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama could already use the Hirashin so he probably sent himself, plus it was once said that Hiruzen could use all of the Konoha jutsu's, and Hirashin is a Konoha Jutsu..... plus it didn't show that someone teleported him to the Kunai, so Hiruzen could have used the Hirashin.....--Deathmailrock (talk) 21:35, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Had Hiruzen known Hiraishin no jutsu, he would have used it over 16 years ago against the Fox. PWNED, any counter arguments?--Elveonora (talk) 22:09, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

If Hiruzen had Hiraishin then why did he need Minato to warp him to the Stone Faces?? 96.241.55.117 (talk) 23:32, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Genma is assistant Minato, Minato has trained so Genma and other assistants this technique .. So, before they went to see Naruto, in chapter 630, the odds on that time, he has trained Hiruzen .. 141.0.8.121 (talk) 01:57, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Elvenora, you know that just because he could use the jutsu doesn't mean he could use it as well as Minato, so he probably couldn't use it to teleport the ninetails or get to Minato's location because the seals could have been destroyed or he didn't know where the seals were, so he wouldn't be able to use it against the ninetails, also, his old age effected his ability to use jutsu remember? so NOT PWNED--Deathmailrock (talk) 07:07, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Third Hokage
-sigh- I knew this would happen: didn't the third Hokage use the technique along with Minato and Tobirama in chapter 631? They teleported to the kunai to create that barrier. So I listed him as user but it got removed what now --FirePit (talk) 22:55, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, Minato teleported him. The sealing tags on Hiraishin Kunai are custom made, meaning Tobirama should not be able to teleport to Minato's seal and Minato to Tobirama's. It were Minato's kunais and he placed them--Elveonora (talk) 23:04, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. Not to mention, you can see Minato's hand touching the Third in the panel where Hiruzen asks Minato if he had applied the marks yet. Skitts (talk) 23:41, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think he used it either. There would've been no need for Minato to be touching Hiruzen either way. They could've simply sent Minato ahead of them because he's faster/he decided to go ahead and Tobirama flew with Hashirama and Hiruzen. A lot of things could've transpired. I'm sorta disappoint though that Tobirama seemingly can't fly to Minato's marks that would've been cool.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:42, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ummm while the Hirashin Kunai are custom made (where does it say that though), how does that equate to Tobirama not being able to use them? it was never stated that the seals were different.... it never stated that Minato couldn't use Tobirama's seals or Tobirama couldn't use Minato's seals--Deathmailrock (talk) 07:00, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

The reason is that when Tobirama uses the jutsu with the Flying Thunder God Slash he is using an older variation of the technique.When Minato uses the Flying Thunder God technique he has his kunai and seals involved with it so it's safe to say that Minato is using a newer version of the Flying Thunder God technique.When Tobirama uses the technique he doesen't use seals or kunai and can only travel a short distance when he killed Izuna Uchiha.Whiteraven1 (talk) 09:57, June 3, 2013 (UTC)Whiteraven1

Really, did it say that in the manga? or is that speculation? maybe the Slash was just a different way of using it, but it was never shown he couldn't use the seals. Just because he traveled a short distance to use it doesn't mean he can only use it for short distances, Minato also used it for Short distances, there was nothing shown to say that he couldn't use the seals or anything. until it actually says that in the manga or databook, we can't say he isn't able to use the seals, so it's safe to assume he can, because we don't know how the Hiraishingiri works yet--Deathmailrock (talk) 16:53, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Its been stated, for the upteenth time, that the third hokage mastered and could perform all Konoha jutsu. Its safe to presume he could use the FTG after all he did show that he could use Minato's Reaper Death Seal...However in the instant in the war, I say Minato used it on both he and the Second Hokage in the fight against the Juubi.--Kyle Ethan (talk) 17:02, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Level 2
I notice there's some confusion as to whether or not the Flying Thunder God Technique has a "Level 2" or if the original text simply meant there are two steps to the technique. A point of relevance I might add is, in Naruto Shippūden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, there is, in fact, a technique referred to as "Flying Thunder God Level 2". --ScruffyC – Ash &#34;Scruffy&#34; Chancellor, the man who will become the world&#39;s greatest video game designer and change the world y&#39;know! (talk) 17:09, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * See here and here. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 04:19, June 6, 2013 (UTC)

Parent
I'm sorry, why is BFT listed as a parent to this, because it's mentioned somewhat interchangeably with this? I don't think so. BFT makes no use of space-time manipulation and dimensional voids, it's just fast movement. The closest thing FTG has to a parent technique is the summoning technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:14, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Omni this chapter referred to FTG as a BFT. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 21:59, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Confused me as well. Perhaps it's an error or it indeed wasn't referring to Flying God, because on next page it's called with its proper name--Elveonora (talk) 22:21, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Elv like we discussed in Tobirama Talk Page that you said i was wrong stating that FTG is a BFT, they already referred to the FTG as a BFT when Tobirama stated that Minato's BFT was better than his one. FTG is a BFT, very simple. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 22:27, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, it's impossible. BFT is using chakra flow to increase speed, FTG is a space-time technique that uses sealing formulas, not related at all.--Elveonora (talk) 22:36, July 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tell that to Kishi @Elv, the real fact here is that they refer to FTG as a BFT. If they do, twice in a row now, our duty is to add it like that. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 01:02, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

It's not an error. It can't be an error twice by the techniques assumed creator saying the same thing twice and then mentioning that Minato had marked Obito. The technique to me, looks like its compile of more than one technique the body flicker would account for the instantaneous appearance of the persons while (in theory) the summoning technique/shiki would account for the actual movement from marked location x to y.-Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:49, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

That makes no sense Cerez, all summoning techniques are instantaneous because they are teleportation. Body Flicker is actual fast movement from place to place.--Elveonora (talk) 16:54, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * That does make sense the FTG would transport the person from x to y while the summoning technique summons the person, and the BFT make the person appear to fast and startling the opponent, It seems they could work together and that could actually explain how the technique might work but that's theory --ROOT 根 (talk) 16:57, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * The usage is teory, but FTG being a BFT isn't... We can speculate all we want, but the fact doens't change, even if we disagree with it. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:05, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * The only thing of BFT in FTG is the look, it does not play any actual role in how the technique works. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:10, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

It must be an error. I believe the first instance meant what was said, they were indeed talking about body flicker when Tobirama commented about Minato. Now, Kishi simply confused himself and screwed up. No matter how hard you try to justify it, there isn't ANY body flicker involved in FTG--Elveonora (talk) 17:12, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * But isn't an error. Twice in a row now. Just accept it. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 17:31, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt it's an error not twice by the same person unless Tobirama or Kishimoto is dyslexic. I think the FTG incorporates the body flicker somehow and possibly even the summoning technique but note there is no need for blood sacrifice or even smoke as we've noted except that one time Minato teleported which might have just been him kicking up dust. I thought at first that it may have been an error but it makes no sense that Tobirama and Minato would fly and then stop and use the BFT to arrive on the battlefield. And then Tobirama comes back and says the same thing again? To me it makes sense that its incorporated in the technique. Not too sure of I've explained it right though.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:37, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are clear enough but it isn't. Body Flicker is running chakra flow into feet (and presumably also hands when fast hand seal movements are used) to increase speed. There's no need to use body flicker since FTG is already speed of light, there's no way to incorporate it there, it's just an excuse for a mess-up. The technique doesn't work the way you think it does. For your no sense, they can teleport only to a marked place not anywhere their wishes, so they had to walk the rest there. And yes, Kishimoto is a human and he has a history of quite some mess-ups behind him already. Databook description nor the manga and all we know about techniques and shit mentions what you think has happened--Elveonora (talk) 17:54, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Without giving into thr incessant cries of error, because its not, we could all be wrong and the term Body Flicker Technique is being used as a category as opposed to the actual technique. I don't think anyone is dumb enough to be doing a series and to make the mistake of calling one of the most famous techniques and saying oh well it's gone to shit so let me continue to call it that maybe the idiots won't notice and continue to serialise my manga. So I say we ask Seelentau to translate what's said in both instances and if we want to hold off on adding it as a technique I wouldnt br against it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:05, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, both body flicker and flying thunder god have a databook entry, the former isn't stated to be a category but a specific technique with workings nothing alike the latter. So "yes, no, maybe I don't know..." is pointless to do here, it's clearly either a contradiction; thus either an error or retcon, or simply scanlators messed up this time--Elveonora (talk) 18:09, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if BFT is parent, but i think it is related somehow with FTG, theres no doubt in that. It is not an error. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 18:26, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be the first time that a technique is the same as a category name, eg clone technique(s). The databooks use a whole heap of sub categories. This isn't one of those things we should chalk up to being an error or retcon- really? We seem to love that word a lot nowadays. We just need to find the best way to integrate the information.Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:29, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * My opinion is that somehow FTG principles contains is base in BFT, and the way they talk, or it is related, or is parent or is from BFT category because of the fast body moviment. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 18:34, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Sigh, perhaps Kishimoto has had mechanical and/or chemical brain damage from injury or senility caught him early, there's no need to kiss his behind. No matter how hard one tries to justify something false doesn't and won't make it true. The best course of action is to check the kanji, perhaps it's written differently and we may have 2 different body flickers here--Elveonora (talk) 19:13, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it's the parent in the same way the Tailed Beast Ball is the parent to Rasengan. It doesn't have to work on the same mechanical principle to serve as the inspiration. It could simply be that Minato looked at this basic ability and thought, how do I do this better? Besides that, to say that Body Flicker serves no purpose in this is inaccurate to a degree, Minato himself still has to be capable with high speed movement to make this technique truly effective, or else he's just dropping himself into a position where he's a sitting duck and anyone who has worked out that he moves to where the kunai are could get the drop on him if he wasn't capable of evading once teleported. Kinda like Dojutsu and the Chidori. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:28, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

In the same vain Elveonora, there is no need to go around discrediting the manga, that's what forum and messageboards are for, not Narutopedia. You cannot stand on someone's back and curse at them, it doesn't make any sense. im not saying he doesn't make mistakes but you're always too quick to call Kishimoto an idiot.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 19:42, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

I'd sooner consider BFT as an inspiration for developing a reverse summon than in the vein of TBB and Rasengan than an actual parent technique. At the very most, it could go in the related jutsu if that's the case. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:08, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * If not a parent then I don't think we should add it as a related either. Trivia maybe, depending on the translations we can get.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:20, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Trivia isn't enough, parent or related should be the options. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 23:23, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

ok well id like to add something here, I was right btw about tobirama and the flying thunder god...and how the seal works. and so I would like to put a little input here, if a certain user doesn't mind shutting up for a minute and stop spotting nonsense. maybe we all misunderstood how the jutsu actually working in the first place, kishi doesn't make mistakes but not nearly as often as others claim. rarely actually...I don't even believe 100% sure that the data books and completely him like the old DBZ ones weren't akira either. Anyways I think the jutsu is derived from the BFT like someone else said, since its being referred to as a BFT there should be no dispute about it. that is what the author said it is, no matter what we have to say its simply what it is, even if it don't make sense, kishimoto said its BFT so it is. that should be all that is needed, now a trivia saying something like, "this jutsu was called a BFT by its users in the 4th war, but why or how the techniques are related" would be good.--J spencer93 (talk) 04:27, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how can someone try to take notice of what the creator says in his creations, who does not want to follow what Kishimoto decides in his works, one can go to Fanon and create himself what one believes. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 11:33, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * The same goes to you, Dan. You seem to speculate a lot yourself. But that isn't the issue here. Body Flicker is the act of moving one's body at a fast rate of speed. But that's all it is. Raw speed. Flying Thunder God actually teleports, using space-time, the user from one spot to another, sometimes miles and miles away. Even the fastest Body Flicker cannot achieve such a feat. Regardless of what was said by Tobirama, it doesn't change what the technique does, and it certainly doesn't make Body Flicker a parent. At the very least, we could leave a Trivia note that states that Tobirama mentioned in passing that it was faster than his "shunshin" (even though I think he was actually referring to Minato's speed, not the Flying Thunder God; some people just have a habit of taking what they want from the chapter and ignoring everything else that could be a possibility). However, unless anyone here has any cold hard facts that Shunshin is anyway involved in teleportation, then we shouldn't jump the gun by adding such a technique as the parent to this one. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:58, July 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I just read the chapter again. Nowhere in it does he suggest he is referencing the Flying Thunder God. Minato arrives to the battlefield first, but not because of Flying Thunder God — he doesn't even have a tag on the battlefield prior to arriving, so it is impossible for him to have done so. Tobirama and the others arrive in the next chapter, and are visibly shown landing, not teleporting. He was commenting on Minato's raw speed. Not his Flying Thunder God Technique. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:04, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

@Fox, that's what I say as well, but some people want to coat things the way it suits them, ignoring facts. Quite certain the first time around, Tobirama was referring to Minato's speed using Body Flicker Technique. This second time, it may be a mistake--Elveonora (talk) 21:35, July 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Totally agree with you Elve. he was referring to Minato's speed. Not the Flying Thunder God Technique. The second time could be a mistake, a mistranslation, or another misinterpretation, but there is no way, literally, zero that high-speed movement equates to anything space-time related. They're as different as the earth and the moon. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:40, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

um ten tails...saying its as different as the earth and the moon is funny...the moon and earth are created by the same rocks from somewhere near 4 billion years ago...so they are pretty close...and anyways I don't think it should be counted as a parent jutsu. or related. just thing you guys act like your the official source of the manga which you aint. kishimoto is, and when he says something it should be taken as official except when their a possibility of mistake. In that instance you should make a note in the trivia and wait for the tankobon to either fix it, or see if he makes a commit somewhere about it.--J spencer93 (talk) 22:44, July 5, 2013 (UTC) oh and I would like to add that I wasn't saying BFT and FTG are the same, I was saying as far as we know from what is in the manga, the author has hinted at some kind of connection, hence the suggested trivia. or else he is retconing the BFT which I would hope not. --Jspencer93 (talk) 06:26, July 6, 2013 (UTC) Oh my God you guys get off it. I've seen some of you run with more off less that what Tobirama has said twice now. He is referring to the FTG technique when he says BFT.The only thing that's left to be decided is whether or not he's referring to the technique itself or simply as a category.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:02, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except he's not referring to it. I read the chapter. If you think he's referring to it, you either don't know how to use context clues, or didn't read the page immediately before it. He was referring to Minato's speed. Flying Thunder God is a teleporation technique, not a high speed movement technique, hence it is not a Shunshin. You go from point A to point B instantly. They are completely different. They're not even a similar concept. How you could even reason that it is a Shunshin is beyond me. If we absolutely have to include it, put it in the trivia, but beyond that, leave it how it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:41, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

From What We Know
From what we know, Tobirama has not been shown using the FTG markings? Should we list that he apparently doesn't need them, since he hasn't been using them? KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 01:11, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Hasn't been seen using them, but since it's basically an integral part of the technique, I'd hold off. I mean we've basically only seen him use the FTG twice, once cutting down Izuna and once to teleport to the battlefield. Until we gather a bit more it would seem to be premature, even by my standards. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:15, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I was just seeking confirmation due to the fact it's in his page. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 01:35, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * When have we seen him using it to get to the battlefield? He used it to kill Izuna, and to take Hiruzen to the Hokage faces in Konoha. He's at least aware of the tags, since he commented about them in the last chapter. I just find it strange that their heads in the Hokage Mountain would be marked. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:47, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I do think Tobirama uses markings like Minato but in a different manner. He's made reference to marking and the name if the technique would cease to make sense. However we shouldn't make any assumptions on that front so if you see any feel free to remove it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 01:54, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I always thought Tobirama didn't use the marks. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 11:45, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

@Omni: He didn't? I thought he did, That was my general impression for how they all got there so fast... Course he did use it to the get to the Hokage monument right enough... Though yeah, Hokage heads marked... I guess it would be useful for anyone who wanted to survey the entire village? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 13:26, July 7, 2013 (UTC)