Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-27660682-20160128215222/@comment-734582-20160129094332

Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote: It should also be noted that the Databooks are not always correct, as the second databook stated that the Amaterasu's flames are as hot as the Sun. The temperature of the sun ranges from anywhere between 6000 and several million degrees. An acetylene blowtorch reaches (core) temperatures of up to 20 000 degrees. Don't look too much into comparisons like this, or things like "as strong as steel" as steel can be more than ten times stronger than itself, since steel is an alloy and depending on how you pick your parameters, it's either weaksauce or godlike.

MlGshinobi wrote: There is a lot to go on. Read through the post. Where am i grasping at straws? I'm a big proponent of the idea that Hiruzen's claim of power is true. But i also spent a lot of time thinking about it (boring train rides) and i don't think there is enough convincing evidence. Most of it is just people talking about Hiruzen, and what little we see of him is in old age. Even as an Edo Tensei he's in his weak form.

We don't know what Prime Hiruzen is supposed to be, because we never saw it. Georgio722 wrote: @MlGshinobi Hiruzen can't destroy a mini wood statue while Hashirama can summon a regular one Going by looks, Edo Hiruzen is not much younger (60-ish) than when he died. When he died, he could barely create a shadowclone without dying from the side-effects. Yet, Hiruzen is the longest sitting hokage (Naruto can beat him maybe) and either the longest or second longest reigning Kage in Shinobi history (depends on when Onoki became Kage).

Georgio722 wrote: Hiruzen can't defeat Kyuubi, while Hashi captured all the Tailed Beasts. Wood Release is the power of the Juubi, which is why it's so strong against Biju. That's like saying Hashirama can bring down a vault door, when he simply has the key. Georgio722 wrote: Mind you that Hashi captured Kyuubi while fighting the strongest Uchiha ever When did a Prime Hiruzen ever get to fight a strong shinobi? He mostly left the Kyubi attack to Minato, the Hokage, while he ensured the safety of the villagers (remember that Kyubi was summoned in the middle of Konoha and every step he takes will kill dozens of villagers). He didn't even get to see the Masked Man or get a chance to fight him whatsoever.

During the 4th war he was mostly absent from any kind of important battle other than once more helping the regular folks. We don't know if he pulled a Naruto and sent shadowclones to every part of the battlefield to help, or was just present at the Wood Statue. We don't know if Spiral Zetsu continuously remade and repaired the statue(After Karin destroyed it, Spiral Zetsu announced his job was done).

So if you think about it, what do we really know about Hiruzen's strengths, abilities? We know him as a frail old man far past his prime, and as a reanimation not far from that point. We know nothing of what kind of stuff he pulled. No stuff of legends like the Raikage or Minato going against entire armies on their own. No stuff of legends like facing Legendary Ninja. He didn't even fight Orochimaru, he fought his Edo Tensei.