Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-6769189-20180905081922

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Juubi chakra grants yin yang release. Naruto achieved this prior to entering rsm. Naruto was already increasing his level of this power when he healed guy and dodged limbo as explained in the OP. All his ensuing healing feats happened post entering rsm, meaning he had even greater levels of this power. Rikudo senjutsu was always present, just in different amounts. Which proves hagoromo didn’t give rikudo senjutsu to him, he produced that power using the biju chakra. The novel even confirms that by having those 9 biju Naruto was basically a juubi jinchuriki. The manga/databooks never made the connection between Juubi chakra and SPSM that you keep making

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote:

Hagoromo did not change any rules, nor did kishimoto(by implication). Hagoromo also didn’t give Naruto power to use without the biju. Everything hagoromo gave Naruto during the war was used with help from the biju. Rsm needed a certain level rikudo senjutsu. The hand seal needed less rikudo senjutsu than rsm for healing. The Yin-Yang databook entry attributes Naruto's healing abilities to Yin-Yang Release. Nothing to do with the seal.

Yin-Yang Release Databook Entry
 * having gained Hagoromo's power, Naruto was able to perfectly demonstrate the power of Yin and Yang release.[]

Sasuke Databook Entry []/
 * From the Rikudou Sennin, he awakened the Rinnegan and the key to the seal...

6 Paths Chibaku Tensei Databook Entry
 * Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals.[]

Ch 681 p8
 * Zetsu talks about how powerful the seal used on Kaguya was and shows the marks on Naruto & Sasuke's hands

Nothing about the having healing abilities anywhere.

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote:

Naruto got chakra from each biju, that was his method of attaining rikudo senjutsu. Hagoromo realized he had this potential and gave him the rsm to utilize the power. He also gave him rikudo yang power which required both rikudo yin power and rikudo senjutsu to reseal kaguya. Even on its own to heal kakashi, guy, and obito, Naruto still demonstrated the use of yin-yang release. This counter has been restated a few times now. The databook doesnt back this. The SPSM entry doesnt attribute SPSM to the Bijuu. It is attributed to Hagoromo. Hagoromo didnt attribute SPSM to the Bijuu in the manga

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote:

As for boruto era, his design matches that of kcm Naruto and not of rsm Naruto. While you’re spot checking, be sure to look at a few key things. Staring with their backs. Whether their cloak activated or not, hokage Naruto’ back looks a lot like kcm naruto’, and nothing like rsm Naruto’. Same can be said about their stomachs(where the seal is), their shoulders and the backs of their hands. All of it makes hokage out to be using kcm or the equivalent since he now uses full kurama. But then theirs the eyes. Which is simply explained by the fact that just as Naruto can gather nature energy, so can the biju. Kurama proved this during naruto’ clash with Sasuke’ amped indra arrow. Right before the clash, Kurama gathered a massive amount of nature energy, ‘everything that’s available’. Which is far more than Naruto ever amassed at once on his own, yet he never gets those rings around his eyes. Hokage Naruto is simply doing the same thing. How do I know. Because hokage Naruto has used sage mode on its own, and the rings were present. Conclusion being if there are no rings around his eyes while Naruto is using senjutsu, it means that energy is being amassed by kurama. If there are rings present, Naruto himself is gathering the senjutsu. There you have it, you no longer have to cling to assumption that no rings around his eye automatically means rsm. It has been debunked. "Debunked" Kurama Sage Mode has orange eyes, not yellow.

Naruto didnt gather Nature Energy himself in The Last but he had the Orange Cross Eyes and Toad Sage pigments.

CombatIQmatters wrote: @Hagoromo

Ridoku sage mode is the power of a juubi jinchuriki, that is agreed upon. It's confusing because madara and obito aren't listed as users of rsm, but in the manga madara says he is a ridoku sage. So my theory is, there are simply two different types of ridoku sage mode. The same term is being used to define different things, which is why I keep saying the terminology is confusing. The problem with this is that Bijuu chakra was never mentioned to be a pre-req for any form of SP Senjutsu. Hagoromo/Hamura achieved SP Senjutsu prior to sealing Kaguya. Hagoromo retained SP Senjutsu after he expelled the 10 Tails.

Naruto's SPSM is an ability given by Hagoromo and it is a unique form of SP Senjutsu. The databook says this many times. He also had SPSM active prior utilizing the Bijuu's chakra. This is made clear when he asked Son Goku to lend him chakra for his Rasenshuriken.

The Juubi/10 Tails Coffin Seal is a shortcut to SP Senjutsu because the Juubi is a natural mix of 6 Paths Chakra and nature energy so the Jinchuriki gains this attribute as well.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I concede that the lack of tomoe on the back and the design changes are a problem for my argument, but that could easily be due to the new author's inconsistency, plus ying and yang kurama chakra cloaks were different, as seen by minato's cloak vs naruto's so their hyrbid is weird. The cloak Naruto had in 4SWW doesnt appear to be the same as cloak as KCM. It doesnt make his skin glow and it has different markings.

My theory is that this 4SWW cloak manifests because of the other 8 Tailed Beasts chakra.

It mimics the Coffin Seal Senjutsu's effects on clothes, hair, and has the tomoe and symbol on the back. Because Naruto doesnt truly have the 10 Tails, the cloak/hair dont materialize as a solid because he doesnt have the Gedo to properly bind together the beasts, but he gets the back marking because the parts are there. This would also explain why he only gets 9 TSB while Madara/Obito/Hagoromo got 10

Everything after the 4SWW was used only Kurama's chakra. Likely because Naruto has only small portions of the other beasts so he can talk to them.