Talk:Obito Uchiha

''' For previous discussions about this character, see also Talk:Tobi and its archives. '''

Wood Release Confirmed
Obito uses Wood Release in Chapter 605. 207.216.193.120 (talk) 04:41, October 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Its true. Spiral Zetsu even said that it was Obito who used Wood Release: Piercing Branch Technique, not him. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:43, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, why don't we add it then? Also, Obito's Mangekyou Sharingan section needs to be updated to say that he got it by witnessing Rin's death. 207.216.193.120 (talk) 04:49, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah he fully matured his Sharingan and awakened Mangekyo at the same time, I am guessing if you awaken the Mangekyo before 3 tomoe then it forces your sharingan into maturity. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 05:19, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's all very well, but are we gonna add Wood Release to his Kekkai Genkai or not? I'd do it myself, but I can't edit anything. =_= 207.216.193.120 (talk) 06:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

i truly agree it should be added.--Tchad1 (talk) 10:53, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

The infobox is locked, when an Admin gets here they'll either unlock it and the information can be added, or add it directly. You guys aren't the only people that can read and come to the realisation that it needs to be added. This place isn't run by robots either.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 10:59, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

I see it's been added already. The one thing I believe we should consider listing is that the only time we've seen him using confirmed Wood Release is when he was wearing Spiral Zetsu. Remember that his own Zetsu arm was mush at that point. This is kinda like a more complicated scenario of Tsunade giving Onoki chakra for Dust Release, but this time both people can use Wood Release. I'm sure I'm acting paranoid and nit-picky about this, and we'll see Obito use Wood Release by himself in the neat future, but that's just how I am. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:20, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

You can't ignore Zetsu's comment. Also the branches came just from his crushed side.--Elveonora (talk) 01:42, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not. Obito willed the technique, and was credited with its use, but it was technically spiral Zetsu's arm that performed it. He made it happen, but not with his own Zetsu arm. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:58, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

There's no problem then. For now, we should mention that while being merged with Zetsu, he can use Wood Release or something--Elveonora (talk) 03:06, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't be against throwing caution to the wind if you want. I always wondered why he never used it in his adult years...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Note, I wouldn't even say he was merged, wasnt he just...kinda wearing Spiral Zetsu's body?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:57, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

The wood did come from Obito's Hashi part, not whole Zetsu enveloped body. Just because a ninja didn't use something doesn't mean he couldn't, because if we go by this logic, Tobirama wasn't an Edo Tensei user and Itachi has never used Magatama and that fire tech since that was post-death--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

It indeed did come from his right side, no one is discrediting the fact that he used it, Omnibender's just being cautious. As for the Tobirama bit, I don't get that because they said he was the inventor of, and was known for its use by the older generation. Madara stuff also doesn't make sense to me since that would mean all Edo Tensei'd persons never used the techniques they've currently displayed. I just found it interesting that Tobi's never used it in present day.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:30, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

It's not like killing people with branches is his only technique, Zetsu didn't display and wasn't known for Wood Release until late in the manga. While interesting, it's self-explainable... But of course it's still very possible that the funny Zetsu clone guy suit DID enhance his Hashi powers, thus without him, it's just weak or something. But that isn't the point, Obuto has Hashi cells, used a Wood technique knowingly, so has been put as a user, there's nothing left to discuss. If it was his own technique or not doesn't matter since Sasuke had temporary ones as well and are still in his infobox.--Elveonora (talk) 17:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Uh, how does spiral Zetsu crediting him with the use of the technique means it came from Obito's Hashirama arm? We saw it breaking when he tried getting past the wall. He pretty much didn't have a right arm when the Zetsu enveloped him. This would be akin to a leg amputee Ino performing a kick after sending her mind to a different body. Obito is listed as the user, but it should be pointed out that it was performed with a body part that isn't his. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:09, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's age
Are we really doing this again? Obito isn't 13. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:38, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

He's Around Kakashi's Age, A Year Younger I Think .--~ &#123;D.S.P.&#125; &#91;G/G&#93; (talk) 22:09, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Actually Obito is older, so he isn't 29-30 as you constantly list him to be--Elveonora (talk) 01:40, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Just because Kakashi said he became chunin at 6 doesn't mean much anymore. That was literally the beginning of the series, and Kishimoto has a tendency to contradict himself. He obviously forgot or changed his mind, since there's no way Kakashi was 6 in chapter 599. But I will admit that Obito's age is ambiguous, since it hasn't been elaborated on yet. Since there's no direct confirmation of his age, we should just say 30-34 or something. Even that would be better than listing him as 13.. since he's obviously not. :/ --M4ND0N (talk) 06:43, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Kishimoto has already acknowledged the mistake in chapter 599, Obito and Kakashi's graduation/promotion ages are correct, as both manga chapters and databooks do reference them. The things that will be corrected are Minato's monument head being cut and hopefully Hayate won't be present in the chapter as he would be 26 now if alive, but the entrance ceremony did occur 26 years ago, so at the time he was either an infant or still inside of his father "_" Kakashi was 4 and Obito 8 during their first Academy day if you like it or not. That makes him 34 in Part II. --Elveonora (talk) 17:20, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely hit me up with the article where he acknowledges this, because it seems like a good read.. especially since Kakashi doesn't look 8 at all, and that's going by the same logic people used to discredit Tobi being Obito back when he fought Minato.. so like, fair game I guess. lmfao. But if it's totally confirmed by the man himself, why are we not listing him as 34? Anything but 13 would work at this point. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:52, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

So far its looking like a retcon needs to be done, Because Kakashi was a REALLY huge 9year old if thats the case, because Kakashi next to rin was obvious he is not small in chapter 605. Kakashi is 13 in the gaiden and the 599 just opened up plotholes, stop trying to make everything fit and just accept kishimoto effed up here. Kakashi and Obito are the same age... 173.66.119.89 (talk) 06:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Don't look how old do Kishi's character drawings look, do I have to bring up the overused Itachi example? Also it's completely feasible, I know of 10 year-old that's 150cm --Elveonora (talk) 23:14, October 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * And on that note, I remember Shonensuki mentioning somewhere that "Kishimoto is horrible at protraying age," so Kishi just made a mistake on the ages of the characters. It can happen to anybody who is drawing children younger than 14-15 (as most JUMP protagonists are that age). --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:37, October 12, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

What makes you think Obito and Rin weren't 6 at the time? I know it sounds like I'm grasping at straws, but I'm just making a point here. While Kishi indeed confirmed that Kakashi became Chunin at 6 early in the series, there's a lot of stuff to consider here. A. Kishi never revealed either Obito or Rin's ages, at least from my knowledge. and B. Chapter 599 has a number of plot holes, mainly Minato's statue. So Kakashi being in the Chunin exams at the same point as Obito might have been a mistake on Kishi's part. None of this confirms that Obito is older than Kakashi. --M4ND0N (talk) 01:34, October 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 - Watch you language on here, we do not allow the f bomb to be dropped in discussions. Second, Obito's age was released in the databooks as 13 years old when his presumed death occured and Rin's was never revleaed. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 01:42, October 13, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Well see? There you go. So option B is that Kishi simply messed up when putting Kakashi's chunin promotion in the chapter. He forgot that Minato wasn't Hokage at that point, so what's stopping him from forgetting that Kakashi graduated at 5 and became Chunin at 6? This still isn't confirmation that Obito is older than Kakashi. It could just as easily be a mistake on Kishi's part. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:15, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

He didn't forget/retcon/mess up anything, except the Minato Monument mistake (acknowledged and will be corrected) and Hayate, but that's secondary.
 * According to a databook, Obito was 13 as of his "death" and Kakashi has been promoted to Jounin at the time (Kakashi Gaiden, chapter 599 being references)
 * I relly don't get what's not clear here:
 * 1) Obito did fail the exams twice, once at 9 (the year Team Minato has graduated from Academy - Kakashi 5 at this time), then at 10 (Kakashi turned Chunin as 6 years old) and finally managed to succeed as 11 years old (Kakashi being 7)
 * 2 years later, Kakashi turned Jounin and Obito got crushed by boulders
 * 5 years later, Obito attacks Konoha, Kakashi was 14 then

There's no error--Elveonora (talk) 03:55, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Again, that is your assumption, you don't know what is and what isn't wrong here. Kishi was the one who added the data to the databooks and he is the one who makes the manga, he simply either forgot or contradicted a few things, whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and the databook 4, you are not Kishimoto yourself and he never addressed this issue either so stop acting like "he said it himself" or "in an interview".. wait til the tankobon and wait til databook 4, then we will confirm more things with those. So far we should just put it that he was 13 during the Kannabi Bridge incident and leave his current age blank until it is genuinely confirmed by the man himself, also ShounenSuki found an ingenious method on discovering academy graduation times with their Ninja Registration numbers, look at Obito, Gai, Rin and Kakashi's reg numbers and tell me what you get when combined with their other databook information.. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 19:27, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

No worries, I wouldn't work with assumption here, just canonical facts. For now as of it is, Kakashi turned Jounin at 9 and Obito is 34. Before you say, "retcon blah blah wait for up-to-date blah blah" then information will be updated as changes and additions are being made. --Elveonora (talk) 19:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * "whatever errors he made he will correct in the tankobon and databook 4" that's what I said, I don't disagree, so what's your point?
 * "you are not Kishimotot yourself and he never adressed this issue either s stop acting" Thank you for letting me know I do not write manga, also he did, I'm not a very good actor, sorry
 * So? I'm okay with leaving his age as "13" the point of this is, that he ain't as old as Kakashi, thus putting 29-30 in there is premature
 * With all due respect to Suki-sensei, he was also the one to screw up with the "safe to assume all Genin members of Team Minato are the same old" This brought the phenomenon that have spread all over the fandom, as a confirmation of Kakashi graduation age being 13 (since Obito "died" as 13) both databooks and chapter 599 prove this to be false, not to mention it's Kishimoto > everyone else.

Again. It was you who said Tobi couldn't be Obito because he looked too old to be 14 when he fought Minato. I'm going by that same logic here.. Kakashi doesn't look even close to 6 in chapter 599, so I'm going to assume it was a mistake on Kishi's part. Kishi's made it abundantly clear that he can draw younger characters, so there's absolutely no excuse for the mistake in 599 besides Kishi simply forgetting when Kakashi became chunin or he changed his mind on the timeline. Either way, to assume Kakashi was 6 in 599 is ridiculous. And that's putting it nicely. I'm not contradicting canonical facts here, I'm simply pointing out that 599 was a rushed chapter, as seen with Obito's white hair in a single panel, and Minato's statue. And I definitely wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to simply forget when Kakashi became a chunin. Obviously this can't be resolved by anybody but Kishi. --174.4.131.186 (talk) 20:28, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, before it was made clear, that Suki's sensei statement is incorrect. We can always wait for the Tankobon, but if it won't be changed, please don't tell me he made the mistake a few times in a row. Also he didn't forget, the chapter even shows Kakashi becoming a Chunin. It was a year after Academy graduation, both in manga and databook, there's no contradiction. I wouldn't mix drawing mistakes with canonical/timeline ones. It's hard to draw a young looking Kakashi, taking into consideration most of his face is concealed with a mask, and he wasn't shown with many facial expressions due to this. It's simply a fail, you can even notice that he looks much older in face when defeating Guy, than he does in the Gaiden, which happens years after.--Elveonora (talk) 02:31, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

How is it hard to draw a young looking Kakashi? Kishi pulled it off just fine in the beginning of the chapter, where he actually does look 6. The contradiction is that Kakashi doesn't look anywhere close to 6 in the Chunin Exams. He looks even older than he did in Kakashi Gaiden, so that's another reason why I think Kishi lazily wrote the flashback portions of the chapter. Still, I agree, we should still wait for Databook 4, and if the ages are still the same, then it is what it is. --M4ND0N (talk) 03:23, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Info
How come the newer information of Obito and pictures haven't been added to his page for the beginning of his flash back of him first having on Spiral Zetsu aka Tobi.
 * They have, do us the favour of actually reading the article. Images are only added if there is enough text to distribute them through it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:55, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering why does Obito's page also only have his stats from before his death?
 * Because they're the only ones that were published in the databooks. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:37, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's Arm
In the last page of chapter 605, Obito's arm is not visible, yet there is a giant tree to the immediate right of him. Am I the only one thinking that he lost control, like Danzo, and his arm was swallowed whole by the Senju DNA? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 04:13, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't look like it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

So you don't think the right side of his body looks irregular and the cloak had been torn as if a massive tree had ripped through? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 18:05, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ohhh, I see what you mean now. The giant tree structure is in fact coming from his right hand but it doesn't seem like he's lost control of the DNA.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well, perhaps not, but it's the same concept as when Danzo's arm was engulfed by a tree. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 18:47, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that Danzō needed to break it off before his entire body got turned into a tree while Obito seems "fine" there. Maybe the next chapter will bring something different into play but from those frames it doesn't seem like his body is turning into a tree but simply a cruder looking replica of what Yamato normally does.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:10, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it seems like he would've snapped the tree off like he did numerous times with Piercing Branch or whatever, especially since he's done fighting for now.

But yeah, I guess we'll see. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 16:49, October 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Speaking of arms, Obito has his right side replaced with a regenerative body, right? Now maybe it's just me, but in the anime, when he fights the 4th and gets hit by his Rasengan, it seems that his left arm is damaged. Am I looking at it incorrectly? 24.63.48.105 (talk) 15:27, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Obito Uchiha a Missing-Nin?
I don't think he's technically a Missing-Nin I mean everyone in Konoha thinks Obito Uchiha's dead but he was alive committing various crime as Tobi or Madara Uchiha.

It was only when Naruto destroy his mask when his real identity was revealed and the fact wasn't revealed to the public yet. --Cococrash11 (talk) 00:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Has he returned to the village? Does he hold any allegiance to the village any more?--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:09, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

That was his identity of Tobi, and Madara Uchiha. The Ninja World didn't know that Obito Uchiha is a Missing-Nin to the public yet. --Cococrash11 (talk) 19:42, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * But we know. He went as far as to attack the village and from all outward appearances, he holds no allegiance to the village any more.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:29, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

So the information is for us and it's for their world to find out sooner or later. --Cococrash11 (talk) 06:45, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Second Six Path Title belongs to Madara, not Obito
As of chapter 606, everything Tobi has said he's done under Madara's name has been done by Madara. Including this title. It should be moved. Or at least put on both of them.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:14, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Madara_Uchiha#Second_Rikudou still ignored--Elveonora (talk) 23:51, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Starting up the name debate again
I think in light of the new chapter, we really should switch all references to the name Tobi in background and plot overview and replace it with his original name. Because from how it looks, Tobi was an alias Obito only really used a little bit in part 2 until he revealed himself as "Madara Uchiha". The latest chapter clearly shows him adopting Madara's name first, so I really don't see any reason to treat his Tobi alias as anything but a very brief, and very temporary name he used for the first half of part 2. It shouldn't be used to describe him in 70% of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 04:26, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * So, what should we use?~ 04:34, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

What else would we use? For the plot overview and background, we'd replace every use of the name Tobi with Obito. Since Tobi is an alias and we know who he is now, there's no sense really using it aside from the info card and the references at the beginning of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:12, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Here's an example of why we shouldn't do this and immediately check it out. Furido aka Kazuma.--Droidkaju (talk) 05:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * (EC)I am Ok with changing it.~ 05:22, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

The difference is, Obito was only directly referred to as Tobi for a small portion of the series. On top of it just being an alias, it's messy to refer to him as Obito on one portion of the article and then Tobi on another. Since we already know who he is, and the latest chapter confirms that he was using Madara's name from the start, and not Tobi, it seems appropriate to just call him Obito. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

It is not messy. What is messy is using anachronism and referring to him as places where he was referred to as Tobi or Madara, or going through every section and essentially inserting "spoilers" every instance where another name may be used. Calling Obito Tobi in some cases or even Madara should be as natural as calling Sakumo "Konoha's White Fang" or the tailed beasts by their generic titles sometimes; it's just a moniker. I know this wiki is full of spoilers but in most cases the reading flows better when the name Tobi is used instead of Obito. By now everybody should know that they're one in the same, and we have redirects.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:04, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I'm completely okay with calling him "Madara" with quotes on portions of the wiki where he uses the name. Like, for the background section of the article, one part of it is labeled, "Becoming Tobi." But since we know he never adapted that alias at any point in his past, we should change that to Becoming "Madara" as an example. And for the portions of the plot overview where he uses Madara's name, we'd change it up accordingly. I actually think that would work equally well to calling him Obito throughout the entire article, imo. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * I will say this, I hate using names with quotes. Strongly. It looks, for lack of a better word, stupid. Going from there, the reason Tobi is used in sections where he was otherwise going as Madara is because of the revelation that Madara was dead. Using Tobi for those parts works just as well and doesn't get stupid with two Madara's on the site.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:09, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * uh, it's easy: Everything he does as Obito is labeled as Obito's doing. Everything he does as Madara is labeled as Madara's doing and everything he does as Tobi is labeled as Tobi's doing. He was Obito when he was young, Madara after the real Madara died and Tobi when he joined Akatsuki. Madara and Tobi are equivalent nicknames, if we somewhere state that Tobi has done something, we can also state somewhere that Madara has done something. If we explain that Obito only took on the name of Madara, every reader will know who is who. Seelentau 愛議 19:16, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

But then it gets even more convoluted than it is already. It kind of adds to the problem of inconsistency when we have Obito labeled with 3 names instead of 1. We have enough information to confirm that everything Obito did as Tobi and "Madara" were things he did consciously as Obito, so there's little point in calling him by any alias. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:32, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that it would take away the purpose of him taking on these names. Of course we should write that it was consciously him at the beginning of this article, but afterwards we should call him by the names he took on at that time. Because you know, if we really don't want to call him by any names, we should call him 'Nobody', since he also dropped his old name. All or none. Seelentau 愛議 22:28, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

So why are we calling him Tobi in portions where he didn't use the name? Either we call him Tobi and Madara on appropriate parts of the article or we call him Obito everywhere he's mentioned. The best course of action right now is to see what the majority wants. Obviously I'm in favor of changing it to Obito everywhere else, but I also think calling him "Madara" or Masked Man on parts of the article where he's wearing the mask is also a good compromise. But calling him Tobi on parts where he didn't use the name? Since it was used as a placeholder for Obito's name until we discovered his identity after the revelation of Edo Madara, I see no use to use it for the article anymore, except on the infobox and beginning of the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:05, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * THeUltimate3 is not at his own computer atm, so I will be speaking here. I want it noted that, according to le databook, "Madara Uchiha put on the mask and began working under the name Tobi". Discrediting the fact that Madara himself clearly didn't do any of this but Obito had, at some point in the past before the start of the story, Obito began operating under the name Tobi. Now, there we go.--131.118.74.42 (talk) 00:37, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

That's irrelevant, since it's an outdated databook and the latest chapter clearly shows Obito adopting the Madara alias first. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:33, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * And so "Madara" took up the name Tobi. It hasn't been contradicted.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 02:55, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

What speaks against doing it as I said? Tobi and Madara are both aliases, the only difference is Madara being a real person and Tobi not. But if we explain beforehand that Obito only took that name, we can use it afterwards without confusing the reader. Then we're saying he changed his nickname to Tobi and call him Tobi from that point on. In the end, when he's talking about being no one and all this, we can explain that matter too, and finally go back to calling him Obito, since his real identity was revealed and he's called Obito by Madara. Seelentau 愛議 11:07, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

But seriously. Am I the only one who thinks we're making this more complicated than it needs to be? It's not even a matter of confusing the reader, it's a matter of having a cleaner, more consistent article. We know who he is.. so why don't we just call him Obito instead of switching his name depending on when he's wearing the mask and when he isn't? There's no point. I'm perfectly willing to do the changes myself, if everyone's for it. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:50, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * You're not the only one who thinks that, no. I think its dumb too that they refer to him as Tobi everywhere. Tobi, Madara, its ridiculous regardless of what reason you people use to do it. I don't people referring to Minato as just the Fourth Hokage in the sections he was only known as such. You can't really do that with Madara, since the real Madara is around now. I gave up arguing with them after the second time I brought this issue up. They really should change it, one, because its redundant, two because its unneeded, three because it makes things more convoluted than necessary, four because we don't do it for any other character, five, did I mention it is redundant? But they won't, so I'm not gonna even try again. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:51, October 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I also think that it should be changed. 04:54, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Not only that, there's no real standard set for when you call him Tobi and when you don't. On the panel where Obito and Zetsu go looking for Nagato it's listed on the article as, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Moon's Eye Plan" or something. So where does Obito end and Tobi start? There's no real thought put into how we name him in the article since his mask came off, so instead of tiring ourselves trying to decide when we should call him Tobi and when we should call him Obito, why don't we just skip all that and call him Obito? If any admins are available to give us the yes or no to this issue, that would be great. Again, I'm perfectly willing to do all the edits myself if need be. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:19, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

This really needs to just stop. I've mentioned this before, and I'll say it again. Tobi does not even consider himself Obito anymore. In fact, he claims Obito is dead with the statement "whether or not 'I' survived is irrelevant." And there's also the fact that he explicitly stated that the name "Obito" no longer held any value to him. Point being, the masked man left all of his past, save for possibly Rin and the pain with her death, behind him. This is also presumably why he becomes paranoid and starts concealing his identity in nearly every instance possible. He no longer wants to be Obito.

So, looking at it from his perspective, I feel like it makes complete sense that every act performed under "Madara" or Tobi is credited to the latter name since he deems "himself" to be deceased. As to where the alias Tobi should be in place of Obito, I believe it should start either with this past chapter of him using the name "Madara" or when the name "Tobi" surfaces for the first time in the timeline. That's just my two cents. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 01:19, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

You're taking what Obito said entirely out of context. He never said he considers Obito dead or alive, he only said that he was nobody. The fact is, he's Obito, whether he considers himself Obito or not. In a logically written article, Obito would be called Madara in points where he used the name, not Tobi. And that's going by the logic you people use to justify calling him Tobi even though we know who he is. Just stop, he's Obito, so there's no reason to keep switching his name throughout the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 01:29, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

The admins have already expressed their dislike for having quotations in a name or calling him Madara as well and have 2 Madaras in the same article. Zetsu still calls him Tobi, and the man himself would rather be called Tobi than Obito. I personally think he should still be called Tobi even after having the mask destroyed since the mask doesn't really change a person's identity, but whatever, I'm not going to get butthurt over it. You're the one who needs to just drop it and find something better to do rather than bicker all day about substituting an alias for another name. Who. The hell. Cares. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 01:56, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would like to apologize now, for not responding sooner, I was waiting for (at least) one more person to say something. That being said, I agree with Uchiha Suraku's reasoning, though my nerd brain looks at it similar to Anakin/Darth Vader at the Star Wars Wiki. In areas of story relevance, such as Background and the Part in Story sections, what they go by is what is used, and I believe that should be reflected in other articles, (for example: Nagato, who's real name is used in his background up until he takes on the name "Pain").--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 02:17, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Well see, if it was just the plot overview that called him Tobi, that would make sense. But the latest chapter seems to point toward Obito never using the alias in the flashback until the beginning of part 2, so at least for the background section I think we should list him as Obito. Especially because it's convoluted to say, "Obito and Zetsu enact the Eye of the Moon Plan" while he's still wearing the mask, and then the next photo using the caption, "Tobi and Minato clash." It's inconsistent and messy, especially because there was no chapter specifying if Obito adapted the alias between meeting Nagato and fighting Minato. I tried to compromise and change the first picture to say, "Tobi and Zetsu enact the blahblahblah" But Droidkaju reversed it because he said it's too early to call him Tobi. So like I said, we need to figure out where Obito ends and Tobi begins with actual facts from the manga. I think a good compromise is calling him Tobi when he actually uses the name, which is mostly on the plot overview section. At least until the flashback proves otherwise and he starts calling himself Tobi. I mean it's your call, and I don't think there's anything wrong with calling him Tobi in context to a timeline where he actually uses the name, but I still don't think it makes sense to call him so in the background section since he adopted Madara's name first. Also, once again you're distorting facts from the manga, Suraku. Obito prefers to be called Tobi than Obito? Are you being serious, or just deliberately misunderstanding Obito's words? He doesn't care what he's called, that was the whole point of what he said. Obito, Tobi, Madara, he doesn't care. He never stated once that he dislikes his original name, he only said that it means nothing to him. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:08, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

No, I am not taking anything out of context. The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names. Hell, he has yet to even utter the name "Obito" since he donned a mask.

But, then if we aren't taking the own man's preference into consideration, Zetsu is the next closest reliable source in line. He's been with Obito/Tobi since the beginning of his antagonism, and he too has yet to even mention the name "Obito" since becoming Tobi. So Madara calls him Obito because the name "Tobi" never surfaced when he was still alive, big deal. Madara also doesn't know what Tobi is up to at this point and questions his methods. The structure is currently fine the way it is. Let's move on with something else now. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:26, October 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Problem with your logic, " The man point blank said he could be called Madara or Tobi to Naruto/B. There was no mention of Obito included in his list of preferred names."


 * You are looking at this too much from the character's point of view and not the author's. If Kishimoto had Obito say, "Tobi... Madara... Obito... Call me whatever, I don't care." He'd have spoiled his identity then and there. Of COURSE the name wasn't mentioned. Also, that wasn't a "list of preferred names". When you don't care what your name is, then there is no such thing as preference. Obito is Obito. Aliases don't matter. I think Omnibender's point was fairly valid, though. I never considered the Anakin-Darth Vader thing. However, M4D0N is also correct; where does Obito end and Tobi begin? He was using Madara's name first, after all, and the only people that refer to him as Tobi is Sasori, Deidara, and Zetsu. We can't call him Tobi in all the earlier sections if we don't know when his name was Tobi. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:18, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. The handling of this article is becoming more difficult than it needs to be. Just call him Obito in the background section and leave everything as it is until the sections after his mask is destroyed. Problem solved. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:06, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia Section
All right, this is getting out of hand. Before the trivia that user Droidkaju wishes to put on the page is thoroughly discuss on the talk page, as it should have been from the very beginning, I recommend for the page to lock until a decision is made. All further debate will be done here on the talk page.

And to respond to Droidkaju's question: What the heck are you talking about? You're making me confuse.-- Ninja Sheik  23:25, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know how many times the wording was changed, but I don't have anything against the trivia itself in principle, the thing is, it's very strangely worded. Let me see if I got it straight: when Obito used the swirl mask, we could see the scars on his face, and thought it was because he was old. When he changed to the Rinnegan mask, what do you mean to say happened? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I was kinda confused what what Droidkaju is trying to say, but after I reverted the edit last night, I went into the History and saw yours and Cerez's words to him when you guys also reverted it, as well as Droidkaju's. To me, it just seems like he's pointing out that he just seems old because of his scars. I don't think that's relevant to mention.-- Ninja Sheik  00:35, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Since I couldn't explain my trivia in words (and I don't blame, you I sometimes can't clarify my sentences or explain very properly) I'll just show a picture to explain. So look on the new photos page and you'll see what i mean.--Droidkaju (talk) 00:37, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, in the opening, they put the same scar-like wrinkles he has in the right side of his face in the left side of his face, even though he's not supposed to have them. You mean to point out an animation mistake? I don't recall us ever having that sort of clarity or zoom on his left socket in the manga, one that would show the wrinkles. I can only recall seeing the left eye, with the part of his face hidden in a shadow. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:44, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: Okay, I see the images. Same as Omni-senpai: Are you pointing out an animation error? His scars aren't as pronounced in Picture 7. And his skin color is also clearly paler. But the scars are still visible. Most of the time his face is hidden in a shadow. Bottom line, when we get a close up of his left eye, the scars are very clearly visible.-- Ninja Sheik  00:47, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Now do you see why i think the trivia should go back and that the Obito shouldn't be protected.--Droidkaju (talk) 00:50, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Not really, no. If it's an animation error, then just but in the Anime-Manga Differences page. Also, you can't expect the animation not to change. It's going to change and keep changing. And it's going to make mistakes. Do you remember Naruto's fight with Pain in Planetary Devastation (episode)? The animation was simply horrible. And animation is going to make mistakes. That's why we have that section on A-M Differences page.-- Ninja Sheik  00:53, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

I think his point is, that in the anime, it's being portrayed as winkles under both of his eyes, while in the manga, it turned out to be scars instead on his right side of face, thus the animators were under the impression that he was old (we can't blame them)--Elveonora (talk) 01:09, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

The manga equivalent of picture 8, last panel of chapter 514, we see only the eyes, not the skin around them. Definitely an animation change/mistake. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:10, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. :) Droidkaju already made the edit on the A-M D's page already, too.-- Ninja Sheik  01:13, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

Considering that page, references to manga chapter and pages, as well as episodes are required. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

The animation in the Kurama!Naruto episode wasn't a mistake. It was deliberately surreal. 173.180.88.66 (talk) 05:56, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Using his real name in the background section
Chpt 607 is out and the flashback is over. Obito never used his Tobi alias once in the past, so it's pretty much confirmed that he adapted it later down the line. With that being said, there's really no justifiable excuse to calling him Tobi in the background section of the article, and I think we should change it. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:52, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

I agree... he is "Tobi" since "joining" Akatsuki it appears, thus calling him that despite him no longer being Tobi makes no sense whatsoever--Elveonora (talk) 06:39, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm still going to disagree. I'm still using the databook that after "Madara" disappeared from history, moved as Tobi. But I can see this will be ignored. I will instead move my actions into gutting the background section.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 07:16, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed with Ultimate. In addition, the name "Tobi" is not only used as a name, it is used to depict his drastically altered personality, goals, ideology, etc. This is why there is a section called "Becoming Tobi". However, it would be more accurate to say "Becoming 'Madara'", but I know the admins are against using quotations as a name, thus Tobi will have to suffice. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:48, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Edit: Well, I just noticed that entire section was removed. As for what reason, I have no idea. Now it just looks like there was never a transition between goofy Obito and the evil Tobi. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * In the end, I had better things to contribute to the wiki than the fight against what he would be called in one section. Changing it from "Becoming Tobi" which caused all this to "Becoming Madara" which was pointless and "Becoming The Man Who Was Nobody" was just really now come on. "Moving the Plan Forward" or whatever it's called now, was the lesser of two evils and we can get on with our lives.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:35, October 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * While I understand your dilemma, "Moving the Plan Forward" seems to only indicate that Obito adopted Madara's Eye of the Moon Plan and nothing more. I feel like there should be a stronger title to represent the immense change Obito went through. Perhaps it could be named "A Change of Heart" or something along those lines? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:42, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi was just an alias used for infiltrating Akatsuki. If you really wanted to represent that, you could change it to "Becoming nobody" or "Rise of a masked man" or something, but "Becoming Tobi" didn't seem fitting, since he, from what we can tell, never used the name prior to the start of part 2. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:26, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia
in CHapter 606: page 6 i think when obito is kneeling with rin, the moon's reflection and the ripples make a rinnegan. Also just a question i cant figure out, when in this chapet or the last did his sleeve get ripped off? i reread and dont see where it just missing in this chapter.


 * Are you referring to the Obito in the flashback? It's in Ch 605. His sleeve was torn when he unleashed the huge Mokuton jutsu on the Kiri-nin. In 606, he'll break off from it and you can see the torn area. 24.63.48.105 (talk) 21:21, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Already shown
Obito's means of finding anyone at any given time is due to the artificial body that he has. By communicating with other hidden zetsu or the black/white zetsu telepathecally he is able to find and locate any person. Should this be added to his profile ? --Naruto6paths (talk) 20:10, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

For more reference, see chapter 604 on page 8. --Naruto6paths (talk) 20:12, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

The several Zetsu can do it, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet. If he could simply learnt stuff directly through Zetsu, he wouldn't have heard from a white Zetsu words of when B and Naruto left the island turtle, and it would also mean that there are several Zetsu scattered around the globe constantly. There weren't that many Zetsu during Madara's last days, or through the majority of the series run. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

Technique Flaw
PLease answer and don't delete. If Obito's teleportation and intangibility are the same thing, how come he doesn't show the swirly thing when he phases through attacks?--Asian711 (talk) 20:35, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably so we know the difference, or because it would be too time consuming to draw. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

His Age
Shouldn't his age be updated? It still says he's 13 in the profile... 98.242.158.166 (talk) 03:19, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. See previous sections and past archives. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:36, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

Naruto's Parallel
Maybe it's just me, but that's how I see it (not my idea as it's kinda copied from some guy, but I agree):
 * Both ignored by their peers in the Academy
 * Both dreamed of being recognized by the village and becoming Hokage
 * Both following their masters will of bringing peace to the world: Jiraiya and Madara
 * Both extremely good at convincing and manipulating people with their words (talk no jutsu)
 * Both in love triangle with their respective teammates
 * Both were loudmouths
 * Both wore googles
 * Both wore blue and orange colored clothes
 * Obito has Sharingan, Naruto has Kurama (Sharingan controls Kurama, Kurama "gifted" to Naruto so he can fight "Tobi")
 * Menma in AU has a similar goal/plan and is later possessed by "Tobi"

I guess they are partially opposites, and Kishi is trying to show us that if it wasn't for Naruto finding friends/support, he would turn into something similar, from a "savior" into a "destroyer"--Elveonora (talk) 15:53, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe. So?—
 * A trivia, perhaps?--Elveonora (talk) 15:59, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm... do we really write trivia like that anywhere?—
 * We do not. It falls under junk category.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:10, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thats what I meant.—

Hmm, okay. Just thought it to be interesting... how do you define "junk trivia?" --Elveonora (talk) 16:40, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * This.—

Personally I think it could be added, but not in that way. The whole thing it could be summarized in 1 or 2 lines. However I would wait the closure of Obito as character before add it. If this (pretty obvious) parallelism is confirmed or mentioned in a Interview to Kishimoto, I think there wouldn't be  problem to add it as we would have a trustworthy reference.Adept-eX (talk) 17:29, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

@Adept, you are right. Maybe it's too early for that, but one can't deny the similarities. Maybe there's gonna be one whole chapter for that...--Elveonora (talk) 20:57, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

A really shortened version of that is already canon, Itachi made that comparison. That's all that's needed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, you are right. Is it mentioned somewhere?--Elveonora (talk) 22:49, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Addition to the Quotes section
I think that Obito's sentence about his new nindo displayed in the chapter 608 [whatever shinobi you are, you are always trash in this world], should be whorthy to be added in the Quotes section.--JK88 (talk) 14:30, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Second Sixth Paths? I think not.
Obito is not the second sixth paths. If fact, he might as well be the fourth. Madara Uchiha is the second Sixth paths because he awakened the Rinnegan and then gave them to Nagato, making him the third sixth paths.--68.6.176.66 (talk) 16:20, December 15, 2012 (UTC)David

How do you know?71.71.58.231 (talk) 16:22, December 15, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

That's there because that's what Obito claimed around the time he fought Konan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:27, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

@Omni, but we know that he referred to Madara.--Elveonora (talk) 20:42, December 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * He was referring to himself, as Madara. Nonetheless he did mean Madara but at the same time I can understand where Omni's coming from. Mayhaps we should just remove the title from Obito's article altogether, so neither of them have it there. Because lets say, without Obito saying so directly, we change it and state that "while under the guise of Madara..." that opens us up to the possibility of "what else did Obito say as Madara but meant himself, could we accidentally transcribe".--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:29, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

"second six paths" basically translates into "second person to have awoken the Rinnegan" (hopefully the grammar is right) and we are 100% certain that it was Madara, with Nagato as 3rd to do so and Obito didn't awake anything. Despite being a transplant, Nagato still had to "activate" the eyes, while Obito is like Kakashi's case--Elveonora (talk) 20:03, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

So basically, we all agree that it was Madara Uchiha, who is the Second Sixth Path. Shouldn't someone change that in the article box thing?68.6.176.66 (talk) 21:21, December 20, 2012 (UTC)David

People agree but they don't want to change it, logic much--Elveonora (talk) 04:32, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * RL stands atop this Wiki. And they could be trying to see if anyone else has something to add before making the change.71.71.58.231 (talk) 04:45, December 21, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

Yeah, this is piss-poor logic. It's just a title that essentially holds no true value. If you're going to remove the Second Six Paths, you may as well remove Madara Uchiha as his alias as well because he's obviously not the Uchiha clan leader either. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 07:24, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * He used to be.71.71.58.231 (talk) 14:49, December 21, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

Lol. No, he never was Madara... --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 00:27, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

@Suraku, good point. So it's there because he called himself as such, not because he is, right? But then I dunno how to handle this. Madara is clearly 2nd Rinnegan user after Sage--Elveonora (talk) 01:21, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Obito isn't a descendant of Madara [necessarily]
It's junk trivia since Kishi never confirmed how closely related they are. Forefathers doesn't always have to mean someone you're directly related to, all it looked like Obito meant was that Madara was a forefather of the clan. --M4ND0N (talk) 05:29, January 4, 2013 (UTC) Apparantly it shouldn't be in trivia section atleast. ~ Ultimate  Supreme  05:43, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Right. Though I agree with "Madara is NOT the forefather of the entire Uchia clan. He is a member just like any one else; he did not give birth to the clan, and just like any other family, he has a direct line of relatives"
 * Madara did not not give birth to everyone in the clan. He was a member just like any one else granted he is more famous. Unless he and Izuna gave birth to all those other clan members that used to fight the Senju. There is absolutely no difference between this situation and say the one with Tsunade or Nawaki's relationship with Hashirama. I'm not saying he definitely is but the fact that Obito went as far as to say my [precious] forefather should at least be worth a mention.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:20, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure. But not in the trivia section because it indeed sounds like junk trivia. ~ Ultimate  Supreme  11:32, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

Obito is Madara's descendant... if he meant of more clan members, he would have said: "our ancestor Madara Uchiha?"--Elveonora (talk) 15:52, January 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * There really isn't any place else to put it. It can be interjected in some places referring to him as his ancestor but there's no section where it "fits". As for Elveonora's question he shouldn't have called him an ancestor at all, just relative and maybe not prescious.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:51, January 4, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure if Obito was directly related to Madara, it would count as a pretty important plot twist that Kishimoto would elaborate more on, but that's irrelevant. And Elveonora, I find it kind of funny that you're declaring Madara to be Obito's ancestor like it's an undeniable fact, especially after all the times you used the, "Until Kishi confirms it, it's just speculation" logic when used against a theory you don't like. Is it suddenly okay to confirm Obito's lineage to Madara without having more information from the man himself? I still think we should leave it out of trivia.. especially because all the Uchiha are related, even distantly, and the word ancestor would logically apply to Madara with all the clansman, not just Obito. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:20, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Madara can't be an ancestor to all the Uchiha, there were others before him, along with him and after him... unless you think that the latest Uchiha were all from a line that inbred from Madara/Izuna's child, you silly--Elveonora (talk) 07:07, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

"An ancestor or forebear is a parent or (recursively) the parent of an ancestor (i.e., a grandparent, great-grandparent, great-great-grandparent, and so forth). Ancestor is "any person from whom one is descended...""

That is what I take the word ancestor or forefather to mean. I suppose people also mistakenly think that Hashirama fathered the entire Senju clan as well? Also, the story isn't over just yet which means there's more than ample time to find out Madara's lineage, this isn't speculation drawn on absolutely no basis, it was said in the manga. I also don't think that a man like that wanting to leave a lasting impression on the world would not have fathered a child. Then again, he did intend to live forever (and he's bat s#!+ crazy) so you never know. Fact of the matter is, we could be right and Obito is his direct descendant or we could have just been blowing the phrase "''my precious ancestor/forefather" out of proportion. Only time will possibly tell.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 08:24, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Also M4ND0N, he would have used "former clan leader" if he didn't mean family relation. (not to speculate, but Sasuke's resemblance to both Izuna and Madara might hint on something) and unless we believe that there was some hardcore incest going on in the clan, Obito and Madara are directly related. Another hint might be "Now I know why Madara chose you" since Obito is of his blood, he expected him to possess potential. Also don't tell me Madara, the handsome guy and leader of Uchiha didn't have any affair with women ;D--Elveonora (talk) 08:55, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

There was already a lot of incest going on in the Uchiha clan, if you think about it. In Japan it's accepted for cousins to marry [for some reason] and the Uchiha families are all related, albeit distantly but they still mate and have kids together. So really, Madara is absolutely related to Obito, as is he related to Sasuke, Itachi, Shisui, etc. That goes the same for all the other Uchiha alive in Madara's time, because they're all related under the same clan, the same kekkei genkai [bloodline release. genetics, people.] so Obito was right about Madara being his forefather, but could mean distant uncle, great great great grandfather, etc. We can't know for sure, that's why I think it's junk trivia. I should also remind you guys that Obito didn't call Madara his ancestor, he called him his forefather.

"1. An ancestor. See Synonyms at ancestor. 2. A person who is from an earlier time and has originated or contributed to a common tradition shared by a particular group. " So he could've meant Number 2, which fits the bill pretty well since they're part of the same clan. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:51, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Obito used Izanagi against to counter Amaterasu.
Obito used Izanagi to counter Sasuke's Amaterasu. First of all, notice that Amaterasu clearly hit Obito's clothing.



The flames then spread and even burned at his face and bigger portions of his body.



After that you see some time passes by and he even lets out a death rattle.



After that he comes out with completely intact clothing. No damage whatsoever. This is just how Danzo's clothes were also reformed when he was brought back to life. Itachi already knew how Obito's Space-Time works since Konan knew about it. There's no way Itachi would make such a mistake. He was going for a surprise attack in hopes of killing Obito and he succeeded, but did not count on Obito having Senju cells and Izanagi. This is why Obito said he managed to hide some secrets from Itachi or he'd be dead.



This follows in line with Kishimoto's style of giving clues to the most powerful techniques before we actually see them. He did that with Amaterasu when Itachi used it on the giant frog. Basically Obito trolled two people who had managed to find a way around his space time with Izanagi: Konan and Itachi. Orochimagus (talk) 07:30, February 12, 2013 (UTC)OrochimagusOrochimagus (talk) 07:30, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is complete speculation. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 07:36, February 12, 2013 (UTC) In what way or form is this speculation? Look at it again, Omega. 64.136.27.162 (talk) 18:05, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with Omega. There is absolutely no indication thus far in the manga that Itachi was aware of his Kamui either. The only vague hint given is that he reaffirmed Tobi "slipping through the Uchiha's defense" in chapter 590. Aside from that, Tobi was never seen using Kamui around Itachi. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:46, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

And can you explain to me how Obito can use Kamui on something that has contact with his body. As we know what is already touching him would leave with him. Kamui is out of the question. It also does not explain Obito's slow groaning and death cry. And where is the burn damage to his clothes? Kamui can't repair clothes. o.O'

Suraku, have you even looked at those pictures? Or even remotely pondered it? Look at the facts, they're right there. Just because he didn't use it around him doesn't mean he didn't know about it. As Obito/Tobi said to Sasuke "Leave it to Itachi to set a post-mortem trap, I can't believe how well he plans ahead..." But Itachi didn't know that Obito knew about the Izanagi that he learned from Madara. 64.136.27.162 (talk) 07:35, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Obito's Current Ambitions
I don't feel that it is completely accurate to say he actually cares about Rin anymore. He has not expressed a single desire in reuniting with her since adopting the Madara persona and becoming an adult. If anything, he's constantly showing his passion about creating a new world void of the current shinobi system/where people don't have to make pitiful excuses in front of graves. Even his reasoning for becoming what he is today wasn't too convincing: "If I had to say why...."

Sure, she definitely played a role into his antagonism, but does she still matter to him now? I think the "love for Rin remained" statement should be removed until we find out what exactly entails for him in the Eye of the Moon Plan, if anything other than the aforementioned ambitions. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 00:15, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ugh, he wants to recreate Rin in an illusionary world and make sweet love with her ;D If he didn't care about that, he wouldn't hesitate to throw his life away to revive Madara, if the plan itself was all he cares about.--Elveonora (talk) 01:09, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Just because he wants to be there to witness the new world (not sacrificing his life for Madara) of harmony and stability doesn't necessarily mean he wants to reproduce Rin in said "reality" so he can finally be together with her. If it were that simple, if all he wanted was a mere girl brought back to life, he could've invested in Edo Tensei (he clearly knew of its existence before Kabuto) or given someone the Rinnegan and made someone sacrifice their life for hers via Rinne Tensei, but instead that jutsu was intended to be used for Madara, whom he supposedly doesn't even consider an ally.

I mean honestly, look at this man now. I don't know about you, but I just can't see him cuddling and loving another human being. Oh, and I also find it a bit odd that there are several scenes of Rin in the collaboration of images in the world which he afterwards states "I don't care about it anymore." Regardless, my point remains that he has yet to blatantly state "I want to be with Rin" or any other words that lead to him currently giving a shit about his former female teammate. It just seems too ambiguous at this time to comprehend Obito's true passions. Despite his mask being destroyed and learning about his identity, there's still quite a bit of mystery that remains about him. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 07:02, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * He wants both, Rin and a new world full of peace. And this is not a forum~ Ultimate  Supreme  07:54, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

There's no point in reviving the real Rin since as stated, he doesn't care about "this" world anymore. Also Rin loved Kakashi, she would definitely not love him if she saw what a monster he has become. He can recreate Rin in the genjutsu world to his own liking (it's not love, it's something sick, forced/one-sided obsession) as I said, if he didn't care about "Rin" there would be no point in him living. He doesn't care about world peace, he just wants his own personal perfect world--Elveonora (talk) 17:08, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Am I not explaining this clear enough? Since becoming the masked man, he has not expressed any concern for another human being, aside from Izuna. Even after stating the reason for him turning into an antagonist and joining Madara, Kakashi continues to ask if it had something to do with Rin, to which Obito doesn't respond. Everything the two of you have refuted is mere speculation. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 19:38, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

You don't understand, he doesn't care if people are alive or dead, he will recreate them in the genjutsu world, that's why life doesn't seem important to him. Remember what he said to Kakashi, if he dies or lives, he will end up in the other world anyways--Elveonora (talk) 19:57, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Did you mean what he said about Kakashi? Because he said all that crap roughly 16 years ago. Now I'm not saying he doesn't continue to believe in that particular ideology, but after over a decade and a half and maturing mentally, we can't just automatically assume he still holds feelings for a childhood crush. People's emotions and ambitions change over time and I haven't seen Obito screaming Rin's name out at night. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:43, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Madara
not sure how to word this, but it should definitely be mentioned somewhere in his personality how in the present, he doesn't appear to have any loyalty or respect for Madara whatsoever.--RexGodwin (talk) 08:49, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Main Antagonist?
Given all that's happened in the past 20 chapters, is it safe to assume that Obito and Madara are two of the central antagonists of the series? When it boils down to it, everything bad that's ever happened so far in the series is directly linked to Madara through Obito. I'm just not seeing Sasuke turning into an antagonist of that caliber at this point, and the same goes for Orochimaru. Should we still list the two as major antagonists or bump them up to main? --M4ND0N (talk) 00:56, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Obito and Madara are definitely the main antagonists, Oro also isn't an antagonist during current events, he appears to be helping despite surely having an ulterior motive--Elveonora (talk) 01:03, February 23, 2013 (UTC)