Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34656247-20181110123835

LoneNinja wrote: I also don't see the relevance to Rasenshuriken. Care to explain how it that stays on topic before I give my opinion on it? I don't want to stir the discussion off topic. I'm guessing the rasenshuriken is at least transonic to supersonic in terms of speed...panel-wise the Thot-suka blade was shown to be faster than the rasenshuriken. SO we can atleast get a small specific hint as to how fast the thot-suka blade is by gauging the speed of the rasenshuriken..im not good with words.

I see a shadow clone shown to be affected in a Genjutsu (it literally shows the clone in the illusion, being turned to paper and then lit to ash). This too me, shows me a clone can be affected. As for Itachi's statement, I take "you" being referred to the real Kakashi, and "this" being referred to a Shadow Clone. I kind of see it as conflicting that he would switch from "you" to "this". He went from associating the clone to a human being to an object? I just don't see it. That was indeed what he said i guess ;-; but it doesn't make sense, why would he say the genjutsu has no effect to the real kakashi?? when he clearly put a clone under it--experiences only gets transferred to the original after the clone gets released and well Itachi cancelled that genjutsu halfway due to realising that it was a clone. Besides the clone had itachi in a tight grip which still remained even after the clone got a taste of a piece of genjutsu.....with that i'll stay with my answer (clones are immune to genjutsu).

I also like to point out that Itachi used Genjutsu on a Shadow Clone of Naruto before and that it worked on the clone in chapter 366. Naruto and the others were tasked to find Itachi, who would lead them to Sasuke cause he was searching for him at the time. Kakashi stated from the gecko that Naruto wasn't allowed to be by himself due to the Akatsuki which is why Hinata and Yamato had to accompany him when they split up to look for Itachi prior to 366. After a few things went down, they grouped up with the others and Kiba found Sasuke's scent. So they went on to look for Sasuke and track him down. Sasuke and Hebi were onto them and somehow spread their scent in multiple directions. Naruto utilized Shadow Clones to go to each possible scent. In 366, one of the clones encountered Itachi. The real Naruto was still with the full platoon of Kakashi, Sakura, Hinata, Kiba, Yamato, etc shown in chapter 371. Noww wow, this indeed was shown to be it but thinking properly, it doesn't make sense. What about the crow that clone Naruto unintentionally ingest? how did it appear in the original Naruto's body if a clone swallowed it?? only experiences gets transferred back to the original 0__0 in chapter 550 when they were showing the flashbacks both Itachi and Naruto mentioned nothing about a clone .__.

Nashikeine wrote: Okay. Orochimaru did not get to break the Genjutsu.

Yet the fact remains that Itachi did not go for the kill even when he should have ample reasons as i stated so. that is speculation but understanding Orochimaru it shouldnt be hard for Itachi to understand that.

and what do you mean Itachi was thinking whether to kill or control Orochimaru. where did that come from. all Itachi talked there was that he could see through all Orochimaru's jutsu. if you are adding the anime stuff to this then remember that there is just too much added over the manga. like there is fucking Kabuto coming to the aid of Orochimaru. Yep anime got me here ;-;

first of all the moment he is hurt the Genjutsu breaks. that is the basic of cancelling Genjutsu. Kurenai broke of the Genjutsu by simply biting her lips and Orochimaru had his entire arm cut off. So how can he substitute if he's dead? if his head is off?? remember he'll regain his consciousness after the genjutsu breaks that is when he's free to cast his substitution...now when someone loses their head they usually die instantly. gg

Yes. he got his ass handed because he underestimated Itachi. i agree to that. and that is one of the reasons i say the next time they fight he isnt underestimating Itachi.

there is no clear victor because Orochimaru still lives to see another day and his only loss was his arm. He lives because of outside interference (sasuke)...so he kinda lost, i mean he could'nt have unseal himself.

4tailed Naruto vs Orochimaru. the Gokage vs Madara. Jiraiya vs Pein. the Sannin dont sit back and fight. they more or less fight using summons as an aide, especially Orochimaru where he summons smaller snakes for various jutsu. and with moves like deep forest bloom (poison) plus the fire style, madara would've had cooked slug to eat, but would be unable to eat it because it would be poisoned..damn.
 * 4 tailed naruto vs orochimaru....so you'll summon manda to get killed? i mean you simply touch the tailed beaast and your skin corrodes. It;s skin can't even be pierced normally so what will manda do? die?
 * Gokage....tsunade had to co-op with the other kages or had the other kages to co-op with.

I said without MS.

and just so you know Obito tamed the Kyubi with his Sharingan. My point still stands for guys like madara/sasuke. Yeah and that same obito stated that the uchiha can tame the biju with the sharingan, sasuke kinda tamed the kyubi as well.

that was an example of sorts. Yet apart from his use of Fireball jutsu and the water drill like Jutsu tell me a high level jutsu he has shown to use. maybe perhaps flames that can burn forests like Madara or a water vortex like Zabuza. the fireball is not killing S-rank shinobi. yes it can be good in the hands of the right user, but in the end it is C-rank jutsu for a reason. Remind me again of why you're stripping away the sharingan from it's rightful owner and it's relevance to the battle. Without FTG Minato would be in the same tier as well. Without Rinnegan ,Nagato would be beyond fodder class. i can list more.

Kurneai was indeed in her own jutsu, but the control was now completely in the hands of Itachi.

I mean if Itachi were to take Asuma's chakra blode from him and attack Asuma does that mean the Asuma was attacking himself.

Itachi reversed the Genjutsu on Kurenai and Kurenai broke off it The fact remains that Itachi didn't create the content of that genjutsu, but kurenai did. no biggie.

Genjutsu can not work on a clone. where did that come from?

they didnt need to show Kakashi's clone go poof given that they did show it going away in smoke in the Genjutsu somewhat indicating that it also went pook in real world.

also You do remember that in Sasuke chase arc Naruto was caught in a Genjutsu by Itachi. now correct me if i am wrong but Naruto was specifically meant to be by the side of Yamato and Hinata and whatever ninken was assigned to him. Naruto should not leave their side any time. so at that point Naruto was caught they should be by his side too. they werent. Naruto previously had sent out Kage Bunshin to scout out the area so it should be a clone of Naruto that met Itachi and was caught in the Genjutsu.

Again with the sick Itachi. at this point he wasnt said to be sick. the sickness only came to be during his fight with Sasuke. what was he sick again with? Chapter 260 itachi stated it.... Oh gosh, that was the real Naruto, when the team arrived there was no naruto with them. And besides the crow got swallowed by Naruto ....'the' Naruto.

dude i just said Tsukuyomi was used to overpower a Sage powered Genjutsu. in what world does that make it fodder. You said sasuke just used a basic genjutsu while itachi had to use his strongest genjutsu...you're kinda saying it's fodder by competing it against a basic genjutsu.

so, maybe you missed it out but Itachi so far has only shown he can use Tsukuyomi once. if he doesnt use Amaterasu than probably twice. ALso Tsukuyomi is not shown to affect multiple target at once. it affects one person only. SO at most he can put two people in it.

Tsukuyomi is also not contrlling people. it is making them believe days go by in a mere second. When did i deny any of that>? btw i was referring to edo itachi...and so were you.

Sorrounding never remain the same. even with Diedera when he was controlled and attacked Itachi as he believed he was actually attacking himself. the sorrounding was vastly different from what he imagined.

Also using Genjutsu has a sort of sign. Like the one used in CHunin Exams where feathers fell in and Kurenai changed the sorrounding and Itachi had nailed Orochimaru. the signs are alwyas there as per the use of the Genjutsu. What? im referring to the literal surrounding, you mentioned the nails which were used on orochimaru, now in deidara's case such obvious elements wweren't present in the genjutsu deidara was in...atleast for the first few seconds. Same goes for the finger genjutsu, it was activated so seamlessly Naruto didn't even realise (even though jiraiya taught him). There's another example present in the sasuke vs danzo battle.

I see Itachi somewhere at high S-class. i would generaly go by ranking of S class, Kage class and then the Hokage class. now there is little difference between the former two. and just because someone is a Kage or a Hokage does not mean they belong to that level.

Sharinagan didnt see handseals? Itachi had his hands hidden under the cloak. indeed Sharingan can't see that. Itachi used showed one arm with the shuriken to decieve the Jonin, but his other hand was never seen. indeed the hand seals arent going to be seen.

and yes Orochimaru would see through the deception and not seals. the man is a far greater veteran and seen way many battle than Kakashi ever has in his lifetime. So Itachi is not Hokage class? ok. something is wrong here. lol

Itachi cannot use MS techniques in an instant. that is manga proof. debunked. lol.

I am not who made the vs thread, but the one who did already had the Edo on Orochimaru's side. so he does not need to activate it. duh. hM, HE kinda used tsukuyomi in a flash and the same with susanoo.... Lol where in the opening post does it say the edo characters are already out? it just says whhich character orochimaru has in his edo arsenal.

So he closed his eyes the time he put Kakashi in Tsukuyomi and leter also Sasuke and then used Amaterasu on the toad stomach to create a hole just for fun. RIGGGGHHHTTT. EDO Itachi doesnot count. the guy unlike his alive self does not have to bother about wasting CHakra. seems like this is inconsistent as well...he didn't close his eyes when he was about cast tsukuyomi on hebi sasuke nor did he need to close it after he used it on fire ball jutsu which now tells me that closing his eyes to use the techs is totally not necessary.

i am over 9000 actually. i believe you

Yeah. such a bs. because it so did not happen right. i mean they didnt retreat. they just didnt want to kill Jiraiya because Itachi was oh so loyal to Konoha.

whose the 9 year old now man. you are openly dissing hard manga panels as fales. ALL you have to do is take a look at the chapters name in which they retreated....then take a look also at what they're saying whilst retreating..then rewatch the story and understand itachi's character and now come back here and tell me if killing a strong protector of konoha would be the best thing to do when protecting konoha is one of your long term goal.

nothing can kill Orochimaru apart from something that can hollow mountains. Yeah totsuka blade, go home...same for you tsukuyomi.

how Itachi is very limited in use of Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susanoo. Oh gee,tell me a living character who has unlimited use of his/her abilities.

How the Edo can easily counter anything Itachi can do to them. Totsuka blade!! i thought i told you to go home. Don;t forget the battle doesnt start with edo characters already on the field.

you didnt like that i looked down on Itachi and you decide to call me childish without reading the whole thing. i knew that an Itachi fanboy would come at me, but at least have the decency to read everything properly Look down? all im doing is correcting lol.....and wait, won;t that make you an orochimaru fanboy? 0____0