Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-43403813-20200102180859/@comment-43776375-20200109143921

Alright I'll concede that Minato may not reach Obito in order to stab him, but in terms of Nagato, I think Nagato can. Nagato just has much farther reach in terms of techniques. Thanks, but what I mean is that you can't escape the distorted space, maybe we can try macking cases, I'll do that at the end

Well, that's wrong, because Nagato has used his clones before in fights. He used his Shadow Clones before he got emaciated by the Gedo Statue, and then he was forced to think of more complicated ninjutsu i.e. Mirrored clones, shapeshifting clones, his six paths techniques, etc.

Let's pretend that Nagato has never used any type of clones before for argument's sake, except for one occasion, just to show that he has the feat. Saying that "he doesn't use it in fights so let's not include it" is a fallacy in of itself, and can be contradicted with what many people validate as viable techniques in fights:

- Obito used genjutsu on the 9-tails once, and the majority of the fanbase is deadset on Kid Obito having the entire 9-tails as his fighting style.

- Itachi, on one occasion, used a Tsukuyomi so potent that it shut down his girlfriend's brain. People have used this argument in many versus battles on this website.

What I think is, if the individual has shown the ability to use the technique, and has been pictured using it in combat (including stronger derivatives of the same ninjutsu), then it should be allowed in a MU.

The clue's in the name. Shadow Clones are identical to their caster in every way. The only changing variable is the amount of chakra put into each one. Obito only experienced that pain because he just popped in a Rinnegan and started using it within days. Nagato had his entire life to get accustomed to its power. The knowledge of the clone, the strain of the techniques that had been used etc, are all passed back to the original caster if the Shadow Clone dies. I got on his wiki and seems like he used it only in the anime though

Itachi used that in the novel? If it was written by Kishi I guess it's fair game?

But it's a cloned rinnegan, like, why edo Nagato didn't made clones, it would surely helped given that he had troubles at moving

I mean, people already argue this stuff for Obito already. People say that DMS Obito insta-wins against anyone since he just snipes their heads off with Left Eye Kamui at the beginning of the fight. So I don't see why Obito can't use Kamui in that way. But he'd still need to remain tangible whilst using Kamui on whatever bodypart. There's also the fact that Nagato can completely heal himself with the Naraka Path, and leave Obito occupied with his clones. If its a feasible notion and fits all of their ability descriptions throughout the manga, then it passes. For example, I could argue that Nagato could make one shadow clone, and they go on either side of someone, use Bansho Tenin, and then rip his body into two pieces. (fyi I'm not including this as something Nagato would do, its just funny to think about lol) The nakari thing is still uncertain: https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:277178

And the ripping off with two clones is another example how, why didn't he do it?

If Nagato rips out Obito's soul, the soul would disappear (like it usually does) and Obito would disappear. And then he would re-appear somewhere else, and then Nagato would sense him immediately. It's not like Obito would continue to use Kamui whilst his soul is outside of his body completely lmao. I mean Naruto used his chakra arms in that condition and you said that the soul would have come with Nagato while he is being absorbed into Kamui so the "rip off" would come at the end

Anyway here's the points 1. You can't move from the inside of the swriling space to the outside 2. Nagato will use shadow clones that can use the rinnegan abilityes 3. Obito can make wood clones 4. Everything that Obito sucks in is teleported near him in the kamui-dimension

I think Obito will always lose if 1 if false and Izanagi doesn't put the soul back in his body

So with the condition where 1 is true:

If 2 is true I think Obito can wins only if 3 is true or if 4 is false

If 2 is false I think Obito wins

Exceptional case:

If we suppose that Obito can actually do the "only teleport a part of the body" I think he can win even if 1 is false but 2 is false

And can win even if both 1 is false and 2 is true, but he needs 4 to be true