Talk:Naruto Uzumaki

Naruto's Power
I was thinking about this since i read it in the last manga, but Fukasaku said that "Naruto has surpassed the previous generation". Wouldn't that mean that Naruto now has surpassed Jiraiya and Minato? Because he was able to acheive perfect Sage Mode and defeat one of Pain's bodies in an instant, both things Jiraiya couldn't do.
 * I feel foolish because I only just looked at the chapter once again and saw it was Rasengan he used on Asura Pain. I kept thinking he destroyed Asura with just one punch of his fist. I need to pay more attention now. Revan46 03:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)Revan46

Well still even with a normal rasengan jiraiya would barely hurt asura path so even if it was a rasengan its pretty amazing and the speed he has now is unbelievable

so im thinking that maybe he has surpassed his father and jiraiya. like you said, his speed as increased to the point that he was on Gamabunta's head 1 second, and then in fron of Tsunade the next second. and they were pretty far apart. i just feel like the next chapter is gunna be Naruto just kicking ass and handleing Pain easily

This may sound crazy, but can something be done about Naruto being S-Class?.... Surely he has the power to be considered one. He was able to complete his father jutsu (by adding his wind chakra creating Wind Style: Rasengan) and even took it to another level by creating Wind Style: RasenShuriken. He actually master Hermit Mode (Sage Mode), and has been shown to do certain things that even Jiraiya could not (like defeat 2 of Pains bodies (killing 1 of them) both with single blows). Just asking. --- Klross1


 * Has Naruto ever been called S-class? As far as I know, only criminals are considered S-class. --ShounenSuki 18:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have clarified what I said... I was meaning to say that I think (personally) that he should be considered S-Class like Jiraiya, Orochimaru, etc... Even Sasuke should be considered because of his defeating Orochimaru (who is S-Class). Naruto has even defeated two of Pains bodies (Pain is also S-Class). I just think that Naruto and even Sasuke should be considered S-Class. Sorry for the missunderstanding. --- Klross1

before jiraiya against pain he summoning gerotora .....was gerotora went to naruto's stomach?????????????

jutsu
i believe there should be more of his jutsu in his jutsu list cause he has more. ex. drowning maelstorm.

Why isn't the Shadow Clone Jutsu in the Jutsu List? It's not an Acedemy Jutsu. It's a Jonin Level Technique. Izumo Kamizuki said that in Naruto Episode 60 when Naruto went up against Neji in the Chunin Finals. - Zero - Talk 11:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is. It's listed right between Sexy Technique and Summoning technique. --ShounenSuki 12:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Sorry about that. - Zero - Talk 12:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

jutsu
i believe there should be more of his jutsu in his jutsu list cause he has more. ex. drowning maelstorm.

You might want to give me some examples? -- Rasengan888 hi on the subject oof jutsu wouldnt the taijutsu naruto trained in for hermit mode be called FROG KATAS as that was the powerful taijutsu skill explained by fusasaku--Infulgeo

Automated transfer of Problem Report #11412
The following message was left by Amanguy via PR #11412 on 2008-07-02 05:58:45 UTC

naruto uzumaki is now in team kakashi

One handed Rasengan
It seems he's finally able to use Rasengan with one hand, he takes down one of Pain's bodies with a Rasengan in 430. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:37, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

That would be a possibility. Wouldn't you also think about if he made the rasengan before taking down the body?Master-rey 07:20, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, he definitely took the time to summon a clone, make Rasengan and then release it on Pain in the split second before Pain's attack reached Tsunade. I'm pretty sure he made it without even having to use a clone. Revan46 03:02, 4 January 2009 (UTC)Revan46

also naruto may be fast as lighting but he would not be able to make a clone and make ransengan. if he tried tsunade would have died and he would be too late

When we se him make a Rasengan without a clone, we can write that he can do it. Jacce 06:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes Naruto can create the Rasengan one-handed he cleary does in Part 1 at the end of his fight with Sasuke while you could argue it was because of the nine-tails chakra HELLO do you think naruto can control the nine-tails chakra better than his own and during his fight with Itachi to rescue Gaara in Manga 258 he creates a Rasengan one-handed and yes while he was already trapped in a genjutsu and it didnt really happen physically BUT do you think Itachi's going to create an illusion and not make it perfect where you cant tell the difference between illusion and reality thats like saying you have a dream and your filthy rich but you know its a dream cause in real life your not filthy rich same thing Itachi's not going to create an illusion where Naruto can do Rasengan one-handed if he cant in real life Naruto would know somethings up and he didnt even know he was in a genjutsu until after that so theres your proof
 * 1): At his fight with Sasuke he had the fox helping him, giving him better control over his chakra.
 * 2): In chapter 258 he is seen charging towards Itachi with a Rasengan, he is not seen create a Rasengan. Jacce 12:02, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Naruto v. Pain
I separated the Hermit Mode Training into two separate subjects by adding a Naruto v. Pain section. Obviously because something this big shouldn't be muched up with the Hermit Training Section.

Your thoughts?

I think it's a good idea. As 430 is out (in rough scanlated versions) that's a very good idea as Naruto and Pein will probably have a long and extended battle.

My only concern is the fact that people keep messing with and tweaking Naruto's page. The "Sage Arts Training" should be changed back to "Sage Arts Training!" That's how it was introduced in most versions and how it should stay on his page. Also the quote from Naruto to Itachi has been taken out for whatever reason; that is a pivotal quote from Naruto as it shows how much he cares for Sasuke and why he's fighting so hard to bring him back, as is the focus of much of the series. That should be placed back under quotes. ItachiZero 05:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)ItachiZero


 * yes that would be great i'm really looking forward to this battle,and in my veiw it's probably the most epic battle in all of naruto. oh and does anyone know when season two comes out in america, cause i dnt care for the filler thats out right know for season 1 on cartoon network, i hope someone will let me know if they have info. user:zatch dawning

i would like to know .. gerotora has performed on naruto's stomach or no? naruto's gonna win his battle against pain easily... ad we'll see what is naruto's new jutsu....

I was just reading the Naruto page and noticed that it says that his new move is called "the waves of rage." Are we really sure that's the name of his new move or Kishi's ending comment? It does look like 2 bubbles are bunched together...Just wanna know everyone else thoughts... ItachiZero 19:04, 17 January 2009 (UTC)ItachiZero


 * I think that those two bubble looking things that you're talking about are part of his jacket..... Not entirely sure though, but I think that's what they are. --- Klross1

lol. I meant the dialogue bubbles. If u look closely it seems like what Naruto says at the end along with another bubble are crossing over one another. Or to make things simpler, Naruto's words and "kishi's" are bunched together. That's what I meant ItachiZero 17:09, 18 January 2009 (UTC)ItachiZero

Naruto Coat
I don't edit wikis so i don't know if this is the place to say but on Narutos page it says that Narutos coat its red and Yondaimes is blue but his isn't, Naruto's is red with a black flame round the bottom and Yondaimes is White with a red flame round the bottom, just thought i'd mention it.

And Fourth's coat has high collar and Naruto's doesn't have.Justin92 17:39, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Clones
The information on naruto using the shadow clone jutsu should be as follows

Naruto at first primarly used shadow clones to increase his numbers to try and overwhelm an opponent However as the series progresses Naruto learns to to use Shadow Clones more creatively. Most notably in Part 1 when learning the Rasengan such as using a Shadow Clone as an extra set of hands to help with what he couldn't do by himself at the time. While Naruto would gather and rotate the chakra the clone would form and maintain the shell of the sphere. In Part 2 Naruto would use this same method in a slightly different way for his Wind Style:Rasengan. When first learning the Rasengan which was at the time a jutsu at a level that his body and his level of chakra control was not initially ready for(e.g. the strain on his chakra network in is hands from releasing so much chakra over and over from training) Naruto made a Shadow Clone to compensate for his own bodies limitations. Later in Part 2 Naruto timing and usage with Shadow Clones has notably improved such as using a clone to move himself while in midair or having a clone fall for traps in his place. Most notably in Part 2 Naruto was taught the "secret" to the Shadow Clone Jutsu that any clone summoned once it disperses any and all of its information and experience both visual and auditory is transfered back to the original. Thus by using the Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu to have every clone focus on learning one thing in particular the user could learn at an incredibley accelerated rate which is proportinate to the number of clones used(e.g. 10 Clones means 10x faster,100 Clones 100x faster 1000x Clones 1000x faster) This method is not something anybody can use though. To see notable results a large amount of clones must be used and the informaion feedback (the collective expeirence gathered by the all the clones summoned) can overwhelm the users mind causing them to loss conciousness and pass out. Naruto is apparently the only one who can use this method with such effect and without worry with his great reserves of chakra, stamina and his healing abilities from the Nine-Tailed Fox that allow him to not only effectivly use this method of training but to use it repeatedly even during the same day which could put anyone else even his teacher Kakashi in the hospital with just one use from extreme exhaustion and fatigue. While training to learn and master his wind elemental chakra using this method Naruto has learned a new way to use Shadow Clones in battle which according to Kakashi is "on a whole new level". Naruto using a Shadow Clone to attack the enemy as a simulation can learn about his opponents abilities and formulate a plan to defeat them from the experience gained from his clone without endangering himself. Also when training to complete the Rasengan Naruto came to the conclusion that combining his wind elemental chakra with the Rasengan was like looking left and right and the same time. Naruto would again use the Shadow Clone Jutsu in a similar manner before when Naruto was first learning the rasengan. Except instead of a single shadow clone and in total three hands naruto would use two shadow clones and in total five hands. Naruto would use his own hand to gather and rotate the chakra one clone's set of hands to form and maintain the sphere of the shell and the second clone set of hands to add the wind elemental chakra.

Rasengan Training
It was a month. I don't get why this is difficult. Rasengan took a month. He only took a week to finish the third stage after he met Tsunade. He had already been training for three weeks before that. Rayfire 03:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

i think he trained before meeting tsunade but i dont think it was three weeks where did u get that info and also it took the 4th hokage years so ya it still is amazing- alexfkdianna

Yondaime
I believe there should be more information in the trivia section explaining links between Naruto and his father, Minato

For instance: Similar appearance, The ability to summon toads, Use of the Rasengan, Both trained under Jiraiya

And any of similarities people can think of. I realize that all of these things are already mentioned on the page at various points but i believe there should be more of an effort to point out the similarities between them

Age
I know this is a dumb question, but after Part 1, did Naruto train for 2 and a half yrs, or 3 and a half?
 * Sign your comments please. Naruto trained for 2½ years while away from the village but since returning back, and now fighting Pain, enough time has passed for him to age 3 years from when he originally left, at age 13. The article starts this btw. SuperN 22:46, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Whoever okays the editing is stupid
On Naruto's page mostly and Kakashi's page whoever is editing them is a moron and should not be allowed to continue on Naruto's abilities go to the discussion on Naruto's page about Shadow Clones that is the information that should be listed on all these other pages youve gone into great detail about there abilities Jiraiya, Kakashi and Pain but you just write simple nonsense when the page could be more descriptive it makes Naruto look like he hasnt changed at all when hes improved a lot and on Kakashi's page hello hes one of the very few ninja who can summon and why isnt that listed on his abilities like I said get rid of who ever is editing these pages or better yet let me do it since its not being done right


 * 1) Insults don't make you cool.


 * 2) If you are so smart do it yourself.--TheUltimate3 19:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hermit's Art: Great Ball Rasengan & Ultimate Rasengan/Super Great Ball Rasengan
Can we please clarify that Hermit's Art: Great Ball Rasengan and Super Great Ball Rasengan are two different jutsu so that there won't be so many changes to Naruto's Jutsu list and to the Super Great Ball Rasengan page. When Ulitmate Rasengan is translated in Japanese it is written like this 超大玉螺旋丸 or Chō Ōdama Rasengan (which was used in manga chapter 377 pg.13). When Hermit's Art: Great Ball Rasengan is translated in Japanese it is written like this 仙法・大玉螺旋丸 or Senpō: Ōdama Rasengan (which was used in the latest manga chapter 431 pg. 9-10). This is proof that they are two different jutsu. Naruto's is slightly smaller than Jiraiya's but they are still different. If I am wrong, please correct me. --- Klross1

I think that technically, the jutsu may be the same, it's just different naming. Like the confusing nomenclature of Chidori being erroneously called Raikiri (though Raikiri is a different tech). Also, on the panel where Naruto connects the Senpo: Odama Rasengan into the summons, we can clearly see that it's much bigger than Naruto himself, maybe just as big as Super Odama Rasengan. - Xfing

Sorry. But I think the two jutsu are different. Jiarya's Style produces a bigger ball of energy than Naruto's. - Zero - Talk 14:15, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * First of all, Jiraiya's Super Great Ball Rasengan is much bigger than Naruto's Hermit's Art: Great Ball Rasengan. The two also work differently, it seems.
 * If I'm not mistaken, Great Ball Rasengan is different from the normal Rasengan because it creates a Rasengan between the hands of two people, using both their chakra. In a way, it's two Rasengan on top of each other.
 * Hermit's Art: Great Ball Rasengan seems to be the same, only augmented with Senjutsu.
 * Jiraiya's Super Great Ball Rasengan is simply a gigantic form of the normal Rasengan augmented with Senjutsu.
 * --ShounenSuki 14:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well shouldn't they still be classified as two different jutsu like Chidori and Lightning Blade. If the only thing that makes them different is the name then they are indeed different (otherwise Masashi Kishimoto would have given them the same name). Same with Chidori and Lightning Blade. --- Klross1


 * They are the same. Konamaru's resangan is smaller then naruto's resangan (Possibly do to different amounts of chakra), but they are both the same technique. Narutos Super great ball resangan is slightly smaller then jiras, probably do to different amounts of chakra (Naruto made two at the same time which would have taken a huge amount of chakra.)
 * Or he just diden't have the time to make them bigger. Jacce 18:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we should pause this discussion right here untill more data is revealed. In the Meantime we can let the information stay the way it is. Just a thought though. - Zero - Talk 20:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Rasengan Can Be Thrown?
This might sound crazy (& please go behind me and check to see if I'm wrong), but I was watching Naruto 194 (Mysterious Curse of the Haunted Castle) and at 19:50 in the episode Naruto threw Rasengan at the wall (stomach of Kouza Kubisaki's Giant Lizard summoning) before the walls sucked everything out. I didn't know what to think of that so I wanted to bring it to everyone's attention. Now from what I understand, Rasengan can't be thrown (or so I thought until seeing the episode). Please respond... I am eager to know about this. --- Klross1


 * No, it can not be thrown. It being thrown in the Anime (and filler at that) is more likely an oversight. The technique is haneheld and/or based off current chapters floating over the hand, but it can't be thrown.--TheUltimate3 05:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

In manga 432 (spoiler on youtube that looks quite real), Naruto trows the Rasenshuriken... :D --UchihaGlenn 13:53, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's wait until it is released before putting anything on his page. Jacce 13:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

NO the Rasengan cannot be thrown BUT Naruto's Wind Style:Rasenshuriken can the 4 blades created from Narutos wind chakra spin and it works sort of like a helicopter and while it hasnt been shown its likely naruto can control its movement after he throws it if you've seen dragonball z think of krillins destructo disk the two are very similar

Waves of Rage
How did we even know that it's his new technique? It could also be that he is very angry, rage uknow...? --UchihaGlenn 13:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I feel the same way. But if the technique's name is wrong then waiting a few days won't hurt much, we can change it when the next chapter is revealed. - Zero - Talk 17:06, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The chances of "Waves of Rage" being the name of Naruto's new technique are 5% at most. Every chapter has a side-text on the last page to make the cliffhanger more exiting. The "Waves of Rage" thing was simply this side-text. It has no actual relevance to the story and never before has it been used to introduce or name a new technique. --ShounenSuki 18:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, that's what I thought too..--UchihaGlenn 18:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Good, then its settled. Is it not? - Zero - Talk 04:26, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Rasenrengan
Who came up with this name, Naruto just uses two rasengans at the same time!--UchihaGlenn 13:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe it was originally used in Naruto the Movie 2: Legend of the Stone of Gelel and it's correct name is Twin Rasengan. It consisted of one Reasengan made with the Demon Fox's Chakra and the other with Geliel Chakra. This is the first time it has been used in the manga, albeit with Sage Chakra only. But the basics are the same. - Zero - Talk 13:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * 螺旋連丸 = Rasenrengan.,  Rasenrengan, or Spiraling Connected Sphere. Still don't believe it? compare the kanji on this page to what I have.--TheUltimate3 13:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you're right. - Zero - Talk 13:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Where did you find the word, Connected --UchihaGlenn 14:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Why are you guys so concerned with this Rasenrengan its from a spanish or some other language translated manga THIS IS NOT IN THE english translated manga this shouldnt even been on this site in the english translated manga it says DOUBLE RASENGAN quite clearly

TheUltimate3 how do you know if this is really the moves name? Cooltamerboy 14:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC).


 * A thread in Mangahelpers spoiler threads. The thread is now moved and I haven't the foggiest where I found it. And upon further searching 連 doesn't mean Connect or Connecting but rather Holding or something along those lines.--TheUltimate3 14:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, 連 has the meaning of "group," "company" as a noun and "to be connected," "to be related" as a verb (連る). --ShounenSuki 14:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Damnit so Spiraling Connected Sphere was correct anyway? Jeez...--TheUltimate3 15:14, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I would personally translated t as something like "Spiralling Group of Spheres" or "Spiralling Sphere Group," since they aren't actually connected. --ShounenSuki 15:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Gah!--TheUltimate3 15:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't it just Double Rasengan -.-'' --UchihaGlenn 15:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Double = 倍--TheUltimate3 16:46, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8718/696870hv7tg9.jpg　螺旋連丸　98.30.159.17 14:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)Chimie

I agree with UchihaGlenn. The name should be as it is in Chapter 432 page 16 (Double Rasengan) or in Chapter 433 page 17 (Sage Tech: Double Rasengan/Hermits Art: Double Rasengan). --- Klross1.

Flying Tool
In what episode did Naruto use this :s, I can't find it :s --UchihaGlenn 18:50, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In Shippuden episode 19 he summons a large shuriken and throws it at Sasori. Jacce 19:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Okj thank you :) --UchihaGlenn 19:15, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Duh, flying tool means he threw a weapon and there are many instances where he throws kunai and shuriken it is not that complicated people-alexfkdianna

S-Class
Ok.... Can we all agree that Naruto is S-Class. Surely we can put that S-Class (a ninja who has gained power and knowledge far beyond an average Jonin or has earned a feared status) in his Classification area on his page. This boy is extremely strong. Skikaku Nara stated that that Naruto was "on a whole other level". Naruto has killed three of Pains bodies (if not four) and has severely incapacitated another. Now if Pain is S-Class and he's getting his a** handed to him on a plate, then why can't Naruto be considered S-Class as well. Just asking. Lol. --- Klross1
 * Do you have any proof S-class isn't exclusively used for criminals?
 * In any way, as long as Naruto hasn't been stated to be S-class, we cannot assume he is. --ShounenSuki 23:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Klross1. A lot of people that edit these pages assume a lot anyway so what would it hurt just to put it on the page. Just last week we had people to assume that Waves of Rage was Naruto's new jutsu and it wasn't.
 * Do you have any proof that S-Class is just for criminals? None of us know exactly what S-Class pertains to. Therefore until Masashi Kishimoto himself tells the public (through anime or manga), we won't know. --- Klross1.
 * Speculation has no place in the article, which is why it is removed. The "Waves of Rage" thing was removed for that exact reason.
 * The only characters I remember being called S-class were criminals. In fact, the term is usually "S-class criminal". Has the term S-class ever been used for a non-criminal? --ShounenSuki 01:08, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes Naruto should be considered S-Class or even Kage Level there basically the same and yes there are others besides criminals who are S-Class why dont you take a look at Jiraiya's profile or even Tsunade's and hello what do you think S-Class pertains too the weather lets see there D-Ranked missions C-Ranked Mission theres B-Ranked techniques A-Ranked techniques they all have a measuring system. Missions jutsu and ninja you need to retake Naruto class 101
 * Name one character, other than criminals, who has been called S-rank. And no, Tsunade and Jiraiya have never been called S-class, as far as I know.
 * Also, the mission rankings have nothing to do with this. Or are you saying Tenten is S-class as well? --ShounenSuki 14:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

People haven't, that's true, but Kakashi stated that some techniques are S-Class. Therefore it stands to reason that those who have gone to a higher level than A-Class are known as S-Class and then there are the S-Rank missions. Besides we have no proof yet that S-Class is solely for use for criminals just as we have no proof to the contrary. So... Maybe we should wait for more info before we start making assumptions. - Zero - Talk 17:13, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Ninja Rank
I think we should change his rank from "Genin" to "Sage" or "Senin" because Naruto-san if far past the Rank of Genin(He past it after he beat An S-Class Ninja)

GohanRULEZ 00:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Sage isnt a rank its a title or nickname thats why Jiraiya's called the Toad Mountain Sage and Sanin isnt a rank either its the same with the Sage thing Naruto will continue to have the rank of Genin until he passes the Chunin Exams or he goes from Genin to Hokage which isnt hard to believe since while its never been shown Gaara went from genin to Kazekage and he was never said to advance to Chunin or Jonin in between


 * He didn't take his test, he is still a Genin.--TheUltimate3 00:44, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I still think we should change it,he's level is way past Genin,and he couldn't take the test if he wanted to(With Konoha Being Destroyed and all)

GohanRULEZ 00:47, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * But he is still a Genin. He didn't pass or get promoted via Chunin Exams. His rank remains the same. The village was fine until Pain went all fun house mirrors on it.--TheUltimate3 00:56, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Fun...House...Mirrors?.Ok, well Tsunade might promote him to Chunin After all this S**t with Pain is over.

GohanRULEZ 01:20, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully Tsunade will promote him to Jonin!!!! lol. --- Klross1

Jonin's kinda pushing it. Lets just shoot for Chunin.

ok what how is jonin pushing he is stronger than most, no all jonin in the leaf village, heck hes stronger than the hokage -alexfkdianna

????. Naruto is clearly stronger than most Jonin, not to mention he's even gotten smarter. lol. I think that Jonin would be a fitting rank. He's a a lot stronger than Neji, Temari and Kankuro and all them became Jonin over the time skip (2 1/2 to 3 years). Just saying. --- Klross1.

GohanRULEZ 02:05, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

While his skills are now probably Kage Level. Naruto still is a Genin because he hasn't been promoted officially. Lets hope he does get to be Chunin now, at least. - Zero - Talk 06:48, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Discussion ends here, Naruto is officially a Genin, and all we list here are stats, being a Genin has no relation to Naruto's skills. Talkpages are not places for people to discuss things not related to the wiki, so anyone continuing to abuse the talkpage for discussion on what they think Naruto should do or what rank they think is is at will be blocked from the wiki. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jan 25, 2009 @ 01:26 (UTC)

Single handed rasengan
This kind of edit needs serious improvement. It speculates that Naruto has a preference for clones (we have no citation to state that). It's also going overboard and not explaining the proper circumstances. We've seen this only in special modes like Hermit mode where he has enhanced chakra control, and after very extensive training this is not a simple "After training during the timeskip naruto becomes able to use the rasengan with one hand" like this statement implies. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 1, 2009 @ 05:04 (UTC)
 * He has done it against Itachi 30%. No clones, no nothing. He just seems more comfortable using clones to create the Rasengan, even though he can form it on his own.
 * He is only seen holding a rasengan with one hand, he has never been seen create a rasengan with one hand, not even in Hermit mode. Jacce 07:27, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That sort of implies he can do it on his own. He has been seen creating the Rasengan in one hand in the fight against Itachi 30%.
 * Sice he learned how to use Rasengan he has used a clone first, then when the ball is ready the clone disapperas and he only uses one hand to attac with it. The fight with Itachi clone and Pain dosen't prove anything. Jacce 17:05, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Creating a Rasengan on his own without the need of Clone assistance shows how much his chakra control has grown. He has done so against Itachi clone, he has done so against Pain. It proves that his chakra control is better.
 * Then why using two clones during Wind Rasengan. Only one was needed to ad the wind chakra. When he is actually seen creating a rasengan without a clone, I belive you. Jacce 17:24, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Jacce, he created one normal Rasengan on his own, without the need of Clones, against Pain. And also against the 30% Clone of Itachi. He needed to use two clones to create the Fuuton: Rasengan to add the wind chakra into it. And even in Sage Mode, he created the Rasenshuriken on his own, shocking the clones he created since they didn't even get to do their thing.
 * SuperSaiyaMan, when exactly did he do it. Chapter and page, please, because I couden't find it. Jacce 17:40, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Chapter 258 page 91 in tankobon format. Naruto created the Rasengan without help. And of course, chapter 430 page 17-18 and 432 when he makes the Rasenrasengan for the first time in 432 page 15. Naruto did all these without the use of a clone.
 * All those times are when he uses a Rasengan, he isen't seen making one. Before using the rasengan, he has plenty of time to make a clone and remove it. In chapter 258 (page 5 by the way), Kakashi fights Itachi, in chapter 430 Pain talks with Tsunade before Naruto shows up, and in 432 he has been hiding in Gamabunta's mouth for quite a long time. Jacce 17:55, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Show me the clone then. Show me the puff of smoke which happens when he dispells the clone after making the Rasengan.
 * I told you, there was plenty of time. From manga point of view: the smoke has disapperd, from real world point of view: showing a clone would just be a waste of ink and paper. As I said, when Naruto is seen starting and creating a rasengan without a clone, you have proven that you were right. Jacce 18:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

That still doesn't prove that he used a clone, Jacce. This is an Occam's Razor now. 'Plenty of Time' doesn't mean he used it. And given how fast the attack going to Tsunade was, Naruto frankly didn't have *time* to form a clone to do the Rasengan.
 * and you are just speculating. I'm saying that he had time to make a clone. When Naruto fought Sasuke in the valley, he made a clone and started a rasengan when Sasuke jumped if a cliff with a chidori, so Tsunade's chat with Pain ment plenty of time. And still, you can't prove that he diden't use any clones. Jacce 18:14, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Valley of the End was PRE-TIMESKIP, you can't use that as evidence for a post-Timeskip discussion. And I'm not referring to Tsunade's chat with Pain, I'm refering to Asura Pain's charge. And you can't prove he *did* use clones.
 * The valley was to prove that he can do it on short notice, and from what can be told from the pages, Naruto could have seen Pain and starting a Rasengan, then Asura made his move and then Naruto attaced. And yes, I can't prove that he used clones, but it is more likley that he did and it wasen't shown, a fact not even you can't defy. Jacce 18:41, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Basically, Naruto has not been seen forming a Rasengan by himself. It's always created off panel or off screen. Because he isn't seen doing it by himself there is no proof that he can do it by himself. Proof is needed for something to be added to a wiki. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
 * Yes, this is the agreement that we have come to all the other times that people have brought this topic up. So here's the discussion end. SuperSaiyaMan till some actual proof shows up I suggest you stop pushing an old discussion with stale information, every argument you have made has been refuted in previous discussions where they have already been used. On top of that you are ignoring facts (Post-timeskip wind release training; Naruto tried to create a rasengan using a single hand and failed). Right now this is just causing a disruption rather than improving anything. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 2, 2009 @ 01:04 (UTC)

Naruto using Earth Jutsu
Should Naruto be listed as being able to use the Earth Release:Mole Hiding Technique yes we all know that Naruto doesnt have a Natural Affinity for Earth Element nor has he trained to use Earth Nature Chakra but in the Chunin Exams during his fight with Neji Naruto used this justu albeit by digging the hole with his hands to hide underground and pop out to strike Neji. He used the Jutsu his own way by improvising just like he did with Rasengan using Shadow Clones and the Toad Oil Flame Bullet with Gamabunta using a Paper Bomb he improvised but clearly used the Jutsu

Note: Kakashi later used the same style attack that Naruto used on Neji on Itachi during their mission to save Gaara which was listed as Kakashi using the Earth Release:Mole Hiding Technique
 * But Naruto diden't use any chakra, he just dug a hole. Jacce 07:38, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Jacce I dont what your problem is but you seem to like to disprove things left and right while I realize the whole someone has to say he did this and someone else has to say he didnt you should really read very carefully before you speak Naruto using the Toad Oil Flame Bullet did not use a Fire Jutsu he used a paper bomb which doesnt need chakra but he did the Jutsu anyways BECAUSE he improvised which he did the same thing with Earth Release: Mold Hiding Technique thats why I want to know if it should be listed or not so you should read carefully before you respond


 * But he didn't use chakra for it. He literally just dug a hole. For Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet, chakra was used, albeit from Gamabunta. Digging a hole and jumping out the ground from said hole is not a technique.--TheUltimate3 04:02, 2 February 2009 (UTC)