Talk:Haku

It's as if the gender of Haku is skillfully avoided. There aren't even indirect gender identifiers. This poses as a problem, since his gender has been ambiguous to many people. --74.194.118.203 19:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Then add the identifiers, make it clear while Haku looks and can pass as a girl, he is clearly a guy. They mave have been omited for the simple reason that vandals like to change "He" to "She"--TheUltimate3 22:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Haku's gender is a highly debated issue, since there is very strong evidence that Haku was actually a girl. Instead the article should remain neutral. If we are going to state that she is one gender or the other for referencing purposes, then we must also include a section that describes the debate on her gender in full detail so readers can weigh the facts themselves. This would take a long time to write out. I think for now Haku's gender should not be referenced until after someone writes a section regarding the debate. --Believe it! 09:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * High evidence my butt. They said clearly that the guy was a guy in the show and in the manga. The interesting thing is that he was designed to look like a girl. Don't believe me? Chapter 12, page 12. Haku clearly says he's a boy. And I don't think Policaly Correct, Sexy scared American TV would allow a character who clearly looks like a girl say "I'm a boy,". Fact is, Haku is a guy dispite the awkwardness of it all. No debate should be added as it clearly says "I'm a boy" and that the only people who would debate it would be the possible (but oh so likely) Yaoi fans.--TheUltimate3 11:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You are wrong. The series did not clearly state that Haku was a boy. The Japanese version heavily implies that Haku was a girl, since Haku uses female speak words for self reference and because she shows physical attraction to Zabuza. Haku did not claim to be a boy either. You are reading a mistranslation. Haku claimed to be a man. Not a boy. Moreover, she made this claim in front of Naruto, who was her enemy. Therefore it is most likely that what she claimed to be in front of her enemy was misinformation. So in reality the fact that she claimed to be a man, which is proved to be a lie since she was not old enough to be a man even if she were a male, proves that she was a girl. This is because Haku would not have told her enemy the truth about herself. Also, the yoai fans would oppose the option that Haku was a girl, not support it. So you need to realize that there is a huge debate on this issue and that the proof indicates that Haku was a girl who merely lied about her gender, just as she did with her missing-nin status. --Believe it! 02:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, to add another settling point so that no-one comes and says "So he's a Guy in the Manga, what if they changed his gender in the Anime". I do remember him stating his gender in the English version (I watched the earlier portions of the series in English on TV, I didn't get into the Japanese until around the Chunin Exams). And for those who would say "The English Dub isn't canon, they could have changed his gender to being a guy when he could have been a girl in the original version." I'm watching the Japanese version right now to grab the line to settle this. And just so there's no argument on "But the fansub group could have translated wrong" I'm not reading from the fansubs. I'm listening to the raw Japanese voice of the characters as the line is spoken and putting that up here and translating the important bit with the little bit of Japanese I know. I may not know enough to create a phrase on my own, but I do know enough to tell the words for boy and girl apart.
 * In Naruto Episode 12, when Haku wakes Naruto up he says (Pardon the fact that I can only go by sound, and won't get all the words right) "Okush-te-kure tano nee-chan" (Which the subs translate as "Did you wake me up?") but he uses nee-chan in his speech eluding to how at the moment Haku appears as if he is a girl and Naruto mistakes his gender. Haku does not make any reply correcting Naruto on his real gender yet. Naruto also uses nee-chan many times before Haku tells him his real gender. This is probably one of the main reasons that people commonly try to prove he is a girl when he is not. (Also, TheUltimate3, ^_^ I don't think it's the Yaoi(girl on girl) fans... The Yuri(guy on guy) fans would probably support him being a guy. But I think it's the general fans interested in the normal heterosexual relationships, because the scenes between Naruto and Haku almost make you wish that Haku was a girl (For the same reason we have NarutoXSakura and NarutoXHinata fandom). When Haku leaves Naruto he says "Ah, soreto, bokua Otoko-desuo" (Which the subs translate as "Oh, and I'm a man."). The key word here is (Of course this is all the pronunciation, I don't know the romanji spelling) "Otoko", primarily the 'oto' at the beginning. The version for female is "Ananoko" (from pronunciation again), the key point is that the male version has 'oto' before the 'ko' and the female version jas 'ano' before the 'ko'. You can clearly hear this difference and identify that he is referring to himself as a man. If you need further proof, Naruto's response (As translated by the sub, I'm not going to bother listening to the verbalization for this one) "No way! He's cuter than Sakura!". Proving in multiple ways that Haku is a male. (Firstly, the 'he' in the sentence. Secondly, the fact that Naruto is shocked that a guy is that feminine. And thirdly, Naruto referred to him as 'nee-chan' earlier on showing us that Naruto thought he was a guy, and the only way this type of statement would result in Naruto in shock would be if it was a statement that stated a gender in reverse to what Naruto though. In this case, because Naruto thought he was a girl, it would mean that he made a statement contradicting that, staying he was a guy.)
 * Case-closed. Haku is a Guy in the Anime, and TheUltimate3 has already identified to you that he is a guy in the Manga. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 5, 2007 @ 07:35 (UTC)


 * The case is not closed. You just posted proof that Haku claimed to be a MAN, not a boy. You are correct that "otoko" means "man". However, this is a blatent lie on Haku's part. She was 15 years old in the series, and that is considered to be "shounen" or young boy age. Therefore if she had been telling the truth, she at least would have said that she was a "shounen" or boy, not a man. Furthermore, the fact that she told Naruto this indicates that she was lying, since Naruto was her enemy and one of Haku's nindo was about deception of the enemy. Add to this the fact that she was being hunted by tracker ninja and could not afford any true facts about her identity to leak out. The reason why she told Naruto that she was a man at the end of their conversation was because Naruto was CORRECT about Haku's gender. She had to throw him off so that he would believe something incorrect about her rather than the truth.
 * You also assume that Haku "corrected" Naruto. What she did was "incorrect" him. Haku would not want her enemy to know about her, and that is why she did not reveal anything to Naruto until after she had been utterly defeated by him and wished for death.
 * Also, going back to her claim of being a man, and the fact that this is not true since even if she had been a male she would not have been old enough to be a man; This is proof that what she said to Naruto was a lie and thus cannot be used as proof that she was male. It can be used as proof that she was female though, since it makes logical sense that she would give her enemy misinformation about her identity. You also cannot say that Haku was a boy who simply thought of "himself" as a man, because during Haku's conversation with Zabuza after she had saved him she admitted to Zabuza that she was still just a kid.
 * This leads to the next point. During that converstation Haku compliments Zabuza on his "flawless" or "Beautiful" body. This is an irrefutable indicator that Haku was a girl. Add to this the fact that Haku used female specific words to refer to herself during this time.
 * So again I say that this issue is much more complex and much more in favor of Haku being a girl than any of you think. Therefore, if we are going to refer to Haku as a gender in the article, we must include a section that lists this debate and the different points made by each side. --Believe it! 02:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)