Talk:Mizukage

Which one?
I'm confused, which Mizukage is Madara? First, Second, Third, Fourth? He didn't say which he was. Omnibender 15:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

My best guess, and I'm pretty sure that it's more or less confirmed, is that Madara was the Third. The Third was the one who was impressed by 7 Swordsmen of the Mist and established them as being elite. The Fourth was the one who disbanded The Seven Swordsmen and was corrupt and such, also the one that Zabuza attempted the coup d'etat at.

Kisame simply refers to him as "Mizukage", which I take to mean the Mizukage he was loyal to, The Third. AKLieu

What.
What is going on with this page, and why is there someone's random speculation here? I came on this page to find out what it is we know about the Mizukages now that Madara is one, and I can't tell what's right or wrong. It appears that it has all been made up, frankly. Has it been confirmed? Or invented? I can't rewrite it because it's so baffling.

Fanfiction
Most of this article is pure fan fiction. We know next to nothing about the Mizukage. We don't know how many Mizukage there have been. We don't know which Mizukage named the Seven Swordsmen. We don't know which Mizukage Madara was/is. We don't know any of this.

I'm going to remove all this fan cruft. If any one thinks I removed something that shouldn't have been removed, please show some evidence. --ShounenSuki 20:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Zabuza's failure
Didn't Zabuza fail in assassinating the Mizukage? --ShounenSuki 23:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, when Kakashi is lecturing Zabuza when preparing the lightning blade, during the flashback, Kakashi mentions: "While you suceeded in assasinating the Mizukage, you failed to pull of an entire coup d'état on Kiri....". Though Zabuza failed in taking over Kiri, Kakashi says that that the Mizukage was definetly killed by Zabuza.Orochidayu 23:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I scanned through the Zabuza fight, but all I could find was Kakashi saying . It's slightly more ambiguous in Japanese than how I managed to translate it, but even so it's almost certain Zabuza failed to assassinate the Mizukage.
 * If you have a more definite source, please tell me. --ShounenSuki 00:13, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Former?
Was it ever stated the Madara is no longer a Mizukage? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:15, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Although it was already implied by Kisame correcting himself to say Madara-san isntead of Mizukage-sama, in the tankōbon version of that chapter, he literally says "former Mizukage-sama". --ShounenSuki 23:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Unable to Edit
So why is it when I try to edit the pages for spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes, why am I unable to do so? They just appear as Main, Madara and stuff in the {{ brackets. Any idea?{{unsigned|Revan46}}
 * You have to go to Madara's page and fix it there. Jacce | Talk 06:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

3rd Mizukage
wouldn't it be safe to assume madara was the 3rd mizukage? Kisame recognized him as the mizukage, meaning that he had to be mizukage during kisame's lifetime.... if the were the 1st or 2nd he would be too old for kisame to recognize him. adn we know for a definite fact that he wasnt 4th or 5th.... idk...


 * Or maybe there's a picture/statue of all the former Mizukage that Madara is recognizable from. ~SnapperTo 20:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, Kisame would be able to recognize him even if he wasnt alive when he ruled, the village know who their kage are and look like, say when the 1st Hokage was ressurected by orochimaru, the anbu was able to reconize him and the 2nd right away, but he wasnt alive then, my opinion is that he founded the village and was the 1st mizukage, because he might have left the leaf and started it, becasue he wanted to be the leader of a village, like wanting to lead the leaf, it is said in the story soon after the leaf was founded, other countries started to copy them, but that doesnt mean all of the others at the same time, since he was alive then, it is likely in my opinion he is the one who started the village and was the 1st mizukage --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:05, April 5, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

the mizukage madara should be has to be 2nd or third
if we look at the seven swordsman there is chojuro who is very young and was mizukages bodyguard


 * What does Chojuro have to do with which Mizukage Madara was? ~SnapperTo 05:11, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, what does that have to do with Madara, he could have been the First, Second, or Third Mizukage......being the first IS possible because he was alive then, plus after he deserted the leaf village other countries started copying the leaf, and using the one village per country system with a kage leader. It is possible since he was alive and not part of the leaf anymore, that he is the one who created the Mist village and was their First Mizukage, plus, some people said Kisame wasn't alive all that time so how could he recognize Madara as the Mizukage, well it's simple. just like the leaf has the face carvings, and the sand have statues, they probably have some tribute also, take for instance, when Orochimaru attacked the leaf, the ANBU outside the barrier the sound four made, realized it was the First and Second Hokage's, but they weren't alive when they ruled, these are my reasons why he was probably the First, to show you that it is possible for him to have been the First, however, it is possible he was either the Second or Third as well, I just trying to show he COULD have been the First --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 21:48, June 9, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

Madara
Could Kisame have been referring to Madara having the power of the mizukage, rather than being the mizukage. For Example: Like him knowing madara was controlling Yagura. If so, stating him as a "former mizukage" would be inaccurate. S im A nt 01:37, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * No--Myrmidonian (talk) 01:50, August 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's a possibility, but that's what Kisame said. I guess we'll have to wait. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:52, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kisame unambiguously called Madara "former Mizukage". There should be no doubt that, at least in Kisame's mind, Madara was at one point Mizukage. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:49, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Madara and Yagura
I have a question (maybe stupid). Can we list Yagura as Fourth Mizukage de jure and Madara as Fourth Mizukage de facto?--Erik1310 (talk) 11:05, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking keep Yagura as Fourth Mizukage, and Madara as 'Hidden Fourth Mizukage,' or something. Because officially, it was always Yagura. ZeroSD (talk) 11:28, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's the same discussion as above, and i too think that it was merely through Kisames point of view that he was the mizukage, since Madara was never appointed, i don't think we should list him here. One can compare to Danzo who was appointed but was never voted in, therefor we can add him as a Candidate Sixth Hokage. --Gojita (talk) 15:29, August 26, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
 * Madara was never considered nor voted into anything. He was merely controlling the person who was chosen to be the Mizukage it doesn't make him the Mizukage at all --Cerez365 (talk) 15:33, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wonder if this would make Madara the Shadow Water Shadow... —ShounenSuki (talk 16:59, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Number of Kages
How do we know there are four? I don't remember that being stated. --8th Mizukage 03:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Because she's the 5th...--Cerez☺ (talk) 12:21, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * In chapter 458 page 3 it is clearly said that that Yagura was the fourth mizukage. That Mei is fifth comes from the second fanbook, I think. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 12:23, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Her being the fifth comes from the actual manga. When she refers to the time of the Bloody Mist, Ao calls her fifth. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:46, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Chapter-Tankōbon_Differences
On the page Chapter-Tankōbon_Differences, it is mentioned that:
 * When Tobi reveals his face to Kisame Hoshigaki, the latter identifies him with "Mizukage-sama" (水影様, Mizukage-sama). In the tankōbon version, he instead refers to Tobi using "former Mizukage-sama" (元水影様, Moto-Mizukage-sama).

People already discussed this, when Tobi was thought to be Madara. But we know more now. Tobi could only have been either the First Mizukage, or the Third Mizukage. Shouldn't this possibility be mentioned as trivia?--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 14:42, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kisame knew that Tobi was the one who actually controlled Yagura. In a sense, Tobi was the actual Fourth Mizukage. That's the most obvious, and the least speculative conclusion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well...yeah. That was my interpretation of the manga too. However, the tankōbon version has changed it for a reason...and now the original interpretation doesn't fit all that well any more. That's why I asked. It basically comes down to the question whether the tankōbon version is better canon than the manga version. (Think tankōbon→manga→anime from most important to less important.)--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 12:03, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Adding the former doesn't invalidate this interpretation at all. If Yagura was no longer the Mizukage, which he wasn't, as the Three-Tails was already out and about, as well as capture, Tobi no longer had someone he could manipulate from the shadows, Mei was probably the Mizukage at that point, meaning Tobi would still fit the "former Mizukage" designation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, April 5, 2012 (UTC)