Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-25531508-20140923043228/@comment-3568954-20140925080052

Haxs wrote: Avatar Silver wrote: Haxs wrote: Avatar Silver wrote: Like others have stated, I think Hiruzen may be underrated simply because we've seen him fight once and he lost. But mind you, that person he lost to was Orochimaru, who could take on Naruto's four tailed form while he was in the pains that come before he can reincarnate. Hiruzen was at least 25 - 30 years past his prime (died at 69, prime is considered to be over at 40 ish.) Lets also not forget that he was trained by Hashirama and Tobirama Senju, and had no Kekkei Genkei like Hashi and his fire style was weak to Tobirama's water style, and he still could hold them off, beat them multiple times, and then seal them both at the same time while getting rid of Orochimaru's arms (probably his entire soul if he didnt get stabbed by that sword at the end. Point is, Hiruzen is a monster. Orochimaru was actually in a weakened state. His body was failing him and he couldve actually defeated naruto. Don't forget Hashirama & Tobirama were nowhere near their full power when they fought hiruzen. Especailly hashi he didn't have Ashura's Chakra anymore. If Hashirama was still Ashura's reincarnate and was at his prime, Hiruzen would die. Thats what I meant, Orochimaru was in a weakened state and Hiruzen almost completely sealed him away. Besides, what evidence is there that Hashi and Tobirama were weakened just because they were reincarnated? and Hashi is (was) still technically Ashura's reincarnate, just re reincarnated. When they were reincarnated the second time, Tobirama stated that Orochimaru's edo tensei improved cause they were near their full power. The proof is that Hashirama didnt use sage mode or his humanoid wood techs and Tobirama didn't use hiraishin? Hashirama WASN'T Ashura's incarnate anymore as it transmigrated to Naruto. He did not possess Ashura's body anymore nor his chakra.

It doesn't matter if Asura migrated to Naruto by then Hashirama still has the same level of chakra he had while alive. once changed by the indra and asura's chakra the shinobi has those changes forever, hashirama said that in nine tailed mode naruto's chakra level was almost as high as hashirama that means hashirama has chakra that surpass the 9 tails in size