Talk:Hiding in Surface Technique

Technique?
Where is this technique from? It was never mentioned in the manga or databooks, as far as I know. --ShounenSuki 20:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think its from the anime based off its English TV version named Universal Assimilation Jutsu. Which means it had at one point appeared in the Japanese anime as Hiru Banshō: Bōka no Jutsu.--TheUltimate3 20:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I figured as much... The Japanese name sounds ridiculous to me, but oh well... at least the kanji and rōmaji match. Was it ever stated that Orochimaru and Zetsu use this technique? With Zetsu, I suspect it's a confusion with his Mayfly technique. --ShounenSuki 20:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It was before Mayfly was given as his technique. Before that you just had to assume he was using this technique.--TheUltimate3 20:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

There is no point in the japanese anime, where this "technique" is vocalized, so I repeat the previous question: Where did the name come from? I think, the name refers to Nagares Doka no Jutsu and this jutsu doesn`t exist! -- 91.10.107.67 00:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

It probably came from a databook. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Neither Rin no Shou, nor Tou no Shou, nor Sha no Shou! My opinion: This Technik is a slurred version of Nagares 拾万象・同化の術, Hirou Banshou: Douka no Jutsu, probably created by some fanbased rpg-forums. -- 91.10.77.36 12:46, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I have checked with many sites, and the name seems to be common title people seemed to have agreed upon to describe the technique. I do not believe a proper name has ever been given to this jutsu, in anime, manga, or databook.Kusarigama (talk) 15:21, September 13, 2009 (UTC)Kusarigama.

This technique distortes the area around the user, Mayfly does not although its easy to assume that Orochimaru got the idea from Zetsu during his time in the Akatsuki do to his desire to learn all jutsu.--TheBlueBlur (talk) 01:33, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Uh... sorry to bring the topic up again, but where the hell is this technique from? It was never named in any official release, afaik. That means, the name must be fanon and thus should not be used here. Seelentau 愛議 19:02, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

Since we can't find a correct source, I may as well put that false info template on there until a source can be found, or change it to unnamed or merge with some other technique. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 12:43, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * After all, can't this just be Hiding with Camouflage Technique (I know it's not Mayfly)? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 12:48, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Hiding with Camouflage technique bends light around the body and hides you. Orochimaru was lodged into a tree and very visible. I don't really see the difference between this or any other unnamed technique that someone decided to get really creative with the name. Removing the kanji and making the article more "general" shouldn't be a problem if it's not going to be deleted.--Cerez365™ 12:52, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * What Cerez says for the way. LordNaruto (talk) 15:07, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT: Could not it be some Earth Release technique ? this or this ??? --Elveonora (talk) 15:54, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was in a tree though.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:33, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

So ? --Elveonora (talk) 23:30, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not Earth Release which "allow the user to manipulate the surrounding earth for offensive and defensive purposes".--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:34, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Why is it Blocked
can someone remove to block on the technique for update? Jishaku Otoko (talk) 03:40, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's blocked only for non-autoconfirmed users. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:03, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Users
When did Yamato used this technique? --Sorrel (talk) 00:40, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * In the anime, he did it when he first appears when summoned by Tsunade. In the manga, he appears to have used it when Team Samui got tracking seeds on them, assuming that wasn't a wood clone that appeared out of the rock. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:11, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

existence based on assumption

 * no mention in databooks or manga
 * not official name
 * Yamato and Madara could have used "mayfly" like ability of wood clones

All in all, what Orochimaru did SUPER EARLY in the series back in the forest is questionable. If I were an admin, I would have long deleted this one hell of an excuse for an article. So we have 2 questionable users and 1 "true" user of something we don't even know if exists, articles like this and Body Flame Technique really aren't a good resume for the image and accuracy/credibility of our wiki--Elveonora (talk) 20:04, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Madara and Yamato do not Know the MayFly that jutsu is used by Zetsu only and it has been shown in the anime that a few ANBU black ops members have been seen using the Attack Prevention Technique to phase through the floor in Tsunades office.So while the two techniques look "similar" they are not the same.Whiteraven1 (talk) 20:15, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

I never said they do, but wood release shadow clones have a very alike ability to pass through objects, in cases of Madara and Yamato it could have been clones. Also anime isn't canon, it's unrelated what was show there to this "phenomenon" since it also appeared in manga.--Elveonora (talk) 20:28, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Yes it's true that the wood style shaow clones have this ability.Im just trying to say that there's no direct connection to Mayfly and Attack prevention.(also they should really think of a better name for attack prevention to me it sounds cliche.)Whiteraven1 (talk) 20:36, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

As it is, this article is basically just a blanket for all merging/tunnelling techniques that haven't been named. The details even differ between users; Orochimaru damaged the tree as he entered it, but neither he nor Madara seemed to do the same upon exiting from trees, Yamato emerged from the mountain having taken on its texture, etc. I think it's worth having a mention of what Orochimaru did in part 1, but assuming that Madara and Yamato used the same technique seems presumptuous, especially for Yamato's wood clone's usage on the Hokage mountain. Other than those, are there any other instances that are currently considered a part of this technique?--BeyondRed (talk) 22:12, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

If you ask me, this technique is just Assimilate All Creation Technique, Orochimaru just used it without any other Assimilation techniques Nagare did. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:46, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Madara as a user?
How come Madara was listed as a user of the technique and even has it marked under his abilities section as a Wood Release one, since this is not a Wood Release technique and what he use was likely the Mayfly technique? Darksusanoo (talk) 01:46, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Either Mayfly or the Madara was a Mokuton Binshin.... or it was really this ._.--Elveonora (talk) 11:44, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah...and i mentioned somewhere many moons ago that it was more likely to Mayfly...this technique isn't even a Wood Release one...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:35, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * For now, Mayfly is unique to Zetsu. Someone has to re-read the chapter/s and explain us why the tree Madara couldn't be a Wood Clone because I don't see a reason why not. If it indeed wasn't, then he used attack prevention and that would be the end of this topic until we learn that Mayfly isn't just Zetsu thing--Elveonora (talk) 12:46, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Yamato as a user round 2
I barely remember the topic I made that Omni participated in, but we have agreed to remove him as a user of hiding in rock (since that's an anime-only technique and the wall thing happened in manga too) and list him as a user of this, right? So first, if not anything else, the infobox should say "anime only" because re-reading chapter 456, there's Yamato in the wall and when we see him on next page he is already with Naruto and the others, so the first one must have been a wood clone, right? Does a databook specify that Wood Clones can merge with/travel through trees ALONE? If so, then I guess he indeed used "this" but still it was a clone I believe. There's also the Madara topic, we have 2 vague users...--Elveonora (talk) 12:42, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, it was me who made the discussion in Yamato's talk page, as I was still under the user name JaZZBaND. Refer to that talk page, and see what was determined. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:39, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Koto which topic in Yamatu's talk page? Dan.Faulkner (talk) 15:48, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

Madara and Yamato
Jin no Sho says that Mayfly is Mokuton unless I'm mistaken, so more likely than not, they used Mayfly rather than a made-up technique.--Elve Talk Page 08:25, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no entry for Mayfly in the Jin no Sho? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:32, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * So where does that come from? 0_0 The history says it came from Jin no Sho.--Elve Talk Page 16:15, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bump.--Elve Talk Page 12:22, February 8, 2015 (UTC)

The databook says that because of Hashirama's cells, they can use Kagerō and merge to that Zetsu monster thing, I think. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:37, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * So implied Wood Release then. Therefore I guess it's safer to assume that Madara and Yamato used Mayfly rather than a non-existent technique with fanon name.--Elve Talk Page 14:09, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Deletion
Why is this article being considered deleted? Its a technique that Orochimaru has used on a few occasions and even has a hand sign. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 21:47, February 9, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because:
 * Orochimaru in the manga was once seen merged with a tree and no explanation was given in the manga or any of the databooks whatsoever as what he did and how he did that
 * The name doesn't come from an official source, it's completely fanon unless someone manages to reference that
 * So this is pretty much an unexplained phenomena labeled a technique even though it might not have been and with a made-up name--Elve Talk Page 13:36, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * All this is, is a unnamed technique like many other articles on the wiki and not having an explanation on how the technique works isnt a legit reason to delete it. What we do know is what it does, which the user can assimilate with surfaces as seen twice in the manga and another time in a filler arc for Orochimaru. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:24, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * A valid technique so it stays. Just because the manga or a databook did not explain anything, does not mean that the anime didn't. The anime expanded on it so it stays. --Sajuuk talk 14:27, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * I thought we decided to delete unnamed techniques, Snapper was on that. Also there's little evidence that that was even a technique, so it's very far from valid. At most it gets to be mentioned in abilities.--Elve Talk Page 14:50, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Where was it decided that Snapper alone was to decide that all unnamed techs were to be deleted? We saw this, technique or ability (seriously, the fact that we now have people trying to push a difference between the two is beyond stupid that I can't even comprehend), it should stay. At least until this imaginary large discussion about unnamed techniques gets settled, and not across half a dozen talk pages.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 16:07, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * Many techniques were merged and marked for deletion after Jin no Sho, like Zetsu's splitting ability and so on. This really has no good reason to stay, it's fanon essentially.--Elve Talk Page 19:25, February 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * "Many"? I think there were five, one of which didn't go through. Because some things that are unnamed are unique.
 * If you're interested in some sort of purge, though, a list of unnamed jutsu is:


 * ~SnapperTo 19:37, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no reason, or necessity, to delete things just because the databook did not give it a name. This is not a wiki where only information stated in the databook can be given. It's a technique that was used in the series, thus it has a page like any other technique. --Sajuuk talk 19:42, February 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * 1) Could have been the Transformation Technique or Hydrification Technique or whatever
 * 2) Partial bodily transformation into a snake, result of genetic experiments onto oneself, not a technique
 * 3) ._.
 * 4) Chakra Flow, we don't consider flowing chakra into a Kunai its own technique, do we, so why should we flowing chakra into hair
 * 5) Correct me if I'm mistaken, but we saw Sakura and Tsunade both summon Katsuyu at the same time and it was called simply Summoning Technique
 * 6) Training practice, not a technique, not sure why you brought it up
 * 7) Technically, most characters use chakra to enhance their strength
 * 8) To be merged with Orochimaru's Juinjutsu
 * 9) This one is fishy, there are confusing statements on how it's done, if the tools are summoned with space-time technique or unsealed with fuuinjutsu
 * 10) Pure chakra control, chakra can be released on the entirety of the body through tenketsu--Elve  Talk Page 20:35, February 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * The list is automatically generated; I'm not necessarily proposing any of them for anything.
 * There are also 63 at present, so listing your thoughts on all of them here may not be the best idea. ~SnapperTo 20:39, February 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a unnamed technique but a technique nonetheless. It would better to have a temporary name rather than it just be labelled as "That Technique". As it has clear explanation of what it does but unfortunately it was misisng an official name but as site generated by fans it perfectly suitable for us to make a name up in the mean time, more so because ut won't ever be cleared uo since its so old. However I do propose a change in name. Options: Surface Merging Technique or maybe Hiding in the Surface Technique --Rai 水 (talk) 20:46, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Unnamed techniques (most of them unnecessary and not even a technique) should be deleted. This one is generally used by clone techniques to hide user. --Salamancc (talk) 22:56, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't this technique use a hand sign, which means it is a technique, according to the page on hand signs this move is a technique. --LoneNinja (talk) 06:58, February 22, 2015 (UTC)LoneNinja (talk) 22:55, February 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No he didn't. I just rewatched the episode and he went underground, he didn't merge with anything. This article is based on a false premise.--Elve Talk Page 11:58, February 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes Orochimaru clearly uses the Ram Hand Sign as he sinks into the ground taking Yukimi with him and away from Yamato and Kakashi on episode 354 on Naruto Shippuden. It's kind of hard to miss because it zooms in on his hands, haha. If your going to delete this technique (which it is a technique because it uses hand signs) because it is not Canon, then I suggest you start deleting most of everything on this wiki because there is a lot of non canon techniques and non canon information on this wiki including information on Main Characters. So if this is going to be deleted I expect to see a lot of changes on the entire wiki. --LoneNinja (talk) 18:03, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand. There's no evidence that what Orochimaru did with a tree early in Part I. is the same thing he did in this filler with Yukimi.--Elve Talk Page 18:24, February 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * The evidence is the effects and if it wasn't the same technique which technique was it then? If that isn't the technique then it's going to have to lead to another article on a new technique discovered then which will probably be named Attack Prevention because of this article :P. --LoneNinja (talk) 18:41, February 24, 2015 (UTC)

Seriously, I don't care anymore, do what you will with your fanon haven.--Elve Talk Page 19:35, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Couldn't it just be this? Although, since Orochimaru used this in Part I, the first databook would've made notice huh?--Omojuze (talk) 17:22, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * That and Orochimaru could phase through tree's and Yamato could phase through floors. Both not exactly earthly surfaces--Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:40, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yamato may have used Mayfly or it was a Wood Clone--Elve Talk Page 19:16, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Boar-Masked Anbu Member's partner also used this tecnique in the hokage office so i doubt it would be mayfly. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:19, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

Rename
It might just be me but it seens like the name should be changed. It makes it seem like users use this technique when they are about to be attacked or so they don't despite every time its been used its for the latter to sneak up on someone, not really avoid confrontation. Anyways, I think it should be renamed to something more suitable like Hiding in Surface Technique or Surface Merging Technique. --Rai 水 (talk) 01:56, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Or more preferably, should be deleted.--Elve Talk Page 10:44, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * "Surface Merging Technique" is more fitting and descriptive. What attacks has this technique avoided for it to get its current name?? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:49, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Love the name Saru, change it!:)--Omojuze (talk) 14:50, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just seems odd to label a technique "attack prevention" when obviously its not if Anko could attack Orochimaru with her Hidden Shadow Snake Hands while he was using this technique. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:58, March 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's so true @Saru. @Omo We need at least two other people to vote for the name change. --Rai 水 (talk) 17:35, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

I honestly agree since the current name doesn't really fit. change it. Munchvtec (talk) 13:22, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why should it be changed? The user merges with another object, which prevents them from being attacked, hence "Attack Prevention Technique".
 * I'm honestly sick and tired of seeing these discussions on this wiki. The names will not be changed at the whims of every random member who comes to the wiki. --Sajuuk talk 13:53, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Really Sajuuk? So Anko did not grab Orochimaru, clone or not, out of a tree he was merged with? And just because things have been here for a while doesn't mean it doesn't need to change. --Rai 水 (talk) 13:57, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * @sajuuk: so we are just random members right. me, saru, and rai actually are not random so it can be changed. Munchvtec (talk) 13:59, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * So basically, if some random user of the wiki didn't like the name that a user decides upon, it's fine for them to change it? Ok then, let me know how well that works out.
 * And Rachin, Anko's use of pulling Orochimaru out does not count. Hell, she would NOT have been able to do it without snakes, so if she had no snake jutsu, Orochimaru would be protected.
 * There's a major reason why I don't care for this place anymore, these constant pointless changes that happen on every god damn article and they happen because one user doesn't personally like the name. Get over it, the names don't have to make any fucking sense whatsoever, it's an unnamed technique. --Sajuuk talk 14:10, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah real appropriate behavior and i really don't think it's up to you to tell us no. Did we say we were going to change it if we got a few votes. I didn't. if a more appropriate name can be thought of then rename it. I really don't see why you get so butt-hurt over this. Does it need to be renamed, no not at all. i actually have no problem if it gets changed or not. Munchvtec (talk) 14:17, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * None of the three who commented are "random users" so stop there. Second, how does it not count? It was a jutsu, no? I thought it prevents you from being touched. Sajuuk you are making up a ridiculous excuse because you don't like changes well you gotta get over it. I didn't like that we changed our arc names to Kishi but hey. And it may be an unnamed technique but that doesn't mean the name can't be more suitable to the technique itself. --Rai 水 (talk) 14:21, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd like to hear more on the suggestion to delete this article ( '-') Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:26, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Rai: Riddle me this: if another user comes along and doesn't like the new name, is he rightfully allowed to go and change it to whatever he wants it to be? Apparently so.
 * @Cerez: The reason for this article being called for deletion is because "it's unnamed" and because "no databook stated anything about it". Which are foolish reasons. --Sajuuk talk 14:27, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Sajuuk Nobody's changing it though, not until a certain consensus is made. You don't have to like it but if it comes to it, you'll just have to deal with it. If you don't want to deal with it then don't. Nobody is forcing you to come onto to talkpages and read and comment on stuff you find "useless". --Rai 水 (talk) 14:34, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * exactly as @rai said. if you don't like it then don't come. Munchvtec (talk) 14:36, March 17, 2015 (UTC)

._. Err... Not sure if this is truly a candidate for deletion... 21:06, March 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * The mere fact that you want to rename this article means that you don't know what it is and what it does, it's simply anything you want it to be.--Elve Talk Page 22:50, March 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * The fact that the technique never did what name says is why I think it should be renamed. More so to what it allows. This technique has shown that you could be touched, depsite its suppose to prevent attacks so the name is a contradiction. Naming it Hiding in (the) Surface Technique or Surface Merging Technique is acceptable as that's what users have done with this technique. It allows you to mertge with surfaces. However, as shown it doesn't prevent you from being attacked. Look at Orochimaru vs Anko confrontation for example. So maybe its you that dont know what it means Elve. A few people agree with me and I have reasons for it beyond I don't like the name. People who disagree have poor excuses, such as hating change. At the rate this is going, this technique's name may most likely change and you'll just have to deal with it.--Rai 水 (talk) 00:35, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hiding in Surface Technique would fit other similar techniques that involve avoiding damage, and it vague enough for an unnamed technique. I say go for it.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 10:34, March 18, 2015 (UTC)

Just Wondering
Why doesn't this technique show up on any of the user's infobox? It was like this for Kurenai before the name change too. I'm confused. I tried null editing so that's not it. Hmmm... --Rai 水 (talk) 09:04, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

Difference or possibly what it is?
I'm not trying to go against anyone here I was just wondering if there was really any difference between this technique and the Earth Release: Underground Projection Fish? I mean from what is described this technique could possibly be that couldn't it? LoneNinja (talk) 23:54, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Great point.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 00:22, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Now that you mention it, its very similar but as the name suggests and as shown it works on the ground only. --Rai 水 (talk) 01:01, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unlike Underground Projection Fish, this technique isn't limited to earth. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:06, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Are we even sure it isn't? I mean it's true it goes through objects such as trees and buildings but wouldn't that count as Earth? Also on that episode where Orochimaru does the Ram hand sign, how do we even know if that was the HIST and not UPF? I mean it's odd he went from cutting tree's and phasing into his environment without a hand sign to not cutting anything and using a hand sign. All the user's of this technique are shown to be phasing into Earth Base Elements aren't they? I mean besides a Tree which can be considered Earth based, everything else is Earth based. LoneNinja (talk) 08:13, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes the things that people have phased through have been earth based which almost any surface would be earth based (walls, doors, etc) as they are oroginators from Earth in general but the Projection Fish tecnnique has shown to be limited to the ground, even as the name pointed out that it'd be used underneath the ground, not any surface. --Rai 水 (talk) 21:55, June 16, 2015 (UTC)