User talk:Ankhael

message me here, anything you wanna disscuss
--Ankhael (talk) 14:24, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Welcome
Hello, greetings and welcome to the Narutopedia! Thanks for your edit to the Talk:Indra page.

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There's a lot to do around here, so we hope you'll stay with us and make many more contributions. And again, welcome to. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:19, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad
That you depend so much on facts, we need editors like that, so welcome. For the eyes, it's really not speculation. Does the Susanoo require Mangekyou to our knowledge? Yes, it does. Did Indra have the Sharingan? Yes, he did. Did he also have some spiral eyes? Yes, he did. So what's less safe to assume, that those spiral eyes were his Mangekyou, or that he had 3 different doujutsu? Glad it's been settled--Elveonora (talk) 15:07, April 9, 2014 (UTC) it still doesn't make it a fact, there is no point in arguing. your missing the point, your still speculating. --Ankhael (talk) 16:33, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Edits
So you're bugged about Indra's eyes. Let me give guide you through. When we first shown Indra, in the manga, we were shown that he had the spiral eye. We listed that he had the spiral eye. Then the anime caught up, and showed that the eye was red. We didn't really do anything, because the Sage himself had been shown with red Rinnegan at some point close to that, so everyone just assumed art error by the anime team. We still listed his eye as a separate thing. Then, when we learned his name, we saw him with a basic, undeniable Sharingan. And in the very same chapter, we saw him using Susanoo. Well, every user of Susanoo so far, by definition, is a Mangekyō Sharingan user. Suddenly, that red depiction of the spiral eye makes sense. Are you suggesting that Indra had MS and another, unspecified spiral dōjutsu? Do you honestly think that that is less speculative than saying that the unique design we saw in his eyes is his MS, which we know is unique to each pair of eyes, and differs between users? The spiral eye being his MS is the only scenario in canon which successfully explains and goes with every other piece of available information regarding that topic. It's the least speculative thing to say. We don't have to be spoon-fed every single statement. If next chapter they reveal that the spiral eye is something completely different, I'll go around the articles myself and update them, but until then, that's his MS. And don't puff your chest to say that we're the only ones saying this, there are threads in many Naruto boards saying the same thing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:18, April 9, 2014 (U

'''So you're bugged about Indra's eyes. Let me give guide you through. When we first shown Indra, in the manga, we were shown that he had the spiral eye. We listed that he had the spiral eye. Then the anime caught up, and showed that the eye was red. We didn't really do anything, because the Sage himself had been shown with red Rinnegan at some point close to that, so everyone just assumed art error by the anime team. We still listed his eye as a separate thing. Then, when we learned his name, we saw him with a basic, undeniable Sharingan. And in the very same chapter, we saw him using Susanoo. Well, every user of Susanoo so far, by definition, is a Mangekyō Sharingan user. Suddenly, that red depiction of the spiral eye makes sense'''

you telling me stuff I already know, as for the eye colors, thats the anime producers doing, that has nothing kishi's original manga disigns and writings.

'''Are you suggesting that Indra had MS and another, unspecified spiral dōjutsu? Do you honestly think that that is less speculative than saying that the unique design we saw in his eyes is his MS'''

no I am not suggesting anything, though that could be possible, but on contrary didn't it occur to you that that could be his rinnegan. however I am saying that we don't know if the spiral eyes is his mangekyo, we don't know what they are. wikia is not about speculation, and you my friend are speculating, we need to wait for manga giving facts. until then then the eyes should be kept a mystery.

'''The spiral eye being his MS is the only scenario in canon which successfully explains and goes with every other piece of available information regarding that topic. It's the least speculative thing to say. We don't have to be spoon-fed every single statement.'''

that giving scenario is not canon, that is your speculative conclusion. there shouldn't be any speculations in the articles at all, its ok to have theories but its not cool to put them into articles because other fans are going to want to start to do the same thing because you are doing it and its misleading fans that comes to this site that looks for canon source, narutopedia is for canon information. I do like your theory but we have to wait, you cant just put your speculation in an article and call it fact, its misleading without exact reference.

If next chapter they reveal that the spiral eye is something completely different, I'll go around the articles myself and update them, but until then, that's his MS. 

once again this site is about facts, when you put your speculation in the articles you are telling readers what you think not what the series stated and that is wrong, you are abusing the articles and your position on this site and you are wrong.

And don't puff your chest to say that we're the only ones saying this, there are threads in many Naruto boards saying the same thing.

if everyone started jumping off buildings would you do it? and don't put. --Ankhael (talk) 16:31, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Please, pick one talk page. Having you reply both here and at my talk page makes the entire conversation clunky. Either put only your replies in my talk page, or let's carry it out all here. Regarding your other replies. The spiral being red was not a decisive factor. It just helped. Him using Susanoo would still have pushed the spiral into MS without it. Indra's eye can't be a Rinnegan, because the Rinnegan is the result of having the chakra of both Indra and Asura, as we've learned. Indra alone could not have had the Rinnegan, and there are no indications that he was able to take his brother's chakra. If you're not suggesting anything, you're literally suggesting that we ignore a very important piece of information just because it wasn't spelled out for us. If we listed only things that were strictly spelled out for us, there's a whole lot of things we wouldn't list. We're expected to connect dots, it's basic reading comprehension, specially when there's so much context to it. I haven't seen stubbornness on this level since people argued against listing Darui's Storm Release as lightning and water when it was first introduced just because it wasn't explicitly said so. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:05, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

To a certain level you have a point about listing things, but in Indra's case you don't. How am I being stubborn when you clearly don't have facts, wow. You are constantly trying to rationalize your speculation as fact lol, i think your the stubborn one. You cannot put speculation in the article's and try to pass it off as facts, that's wrong man and it contradicts this website. Why can't we just leave the spiral eye a mystery or put it in the trivia, we maybe could trivialized it, you can at least say that it is "believe" to be his mangekyo sharingan, instead of stating directly that it's his mangekyo sharingan, without reference. That's not right, your getting away with putting your speculation in that article and probably many more articles. we all have to work together as a team with the articles.--Ankhael (talk) 19:01, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * The majority was in agreement that it is his Mangekyou, end of story.--Elveonora (talk) 19:22, April 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Calm down. You say that this wikia doesn't rely on facts at all. Believe me, they are actually much more strict with it than you are. For example, about Indra's eyes: before chapter 670, since it was unknown wheter Indra had the Sharingan, his spiral-looking eye was put as "Sharingan ancestor" because it was known that he was the Uchiha clan's ancestor, so the least speculative way was: the Sage had the Rinnegan, his elder son inherited his "eyes", which later evolved in the Sharingan. Nothing wrong with that, right? And now, with chapter 670, it was revealed that he had the Sharingan, and could use Susanoo. Conclusion: he had the Mangekyō Sharingan as well. There were two possibilties: one, Indra's Mangekyō was the spiral eye; two, Indra had both the Mangekyō and another dōjutsu. It's 50 and 50. The one choice which needs least work in the case the correct one was revealed to be the other, is the first: Indra's Mangekyō was the spiral eye. If this is proven uncorrect, you are welcome to correct it, unless someone else has already edited it.--JOA20 (talk) 19:33, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

listen I know that he has a Mangekyō Sharingan, but no one's know if the spiral eyes is his mangekyo sharingan. We do not know how his mangekyo sharingan looks like there isn't a scan that specifically shows his mangekyo sharingan. We know that he has Mangekyō Sharingan because of the presence of Susanoo, but we don't how his mangekyo sharingan looks. It's ok to theorized that the spiral eyes may possibly be his mangekyo sharingan but it's not ok to put that in the article as a fact. And naruto wikia is for facts, otherwise so many people would so many would put crazy things in the articles. How am I wrong for stating something that is right, there is nothing wrong about what I am saying. This site is not about misleading fans. And I clearly see that you guys are irritated by me stating the right thing to do, I also understand that you guys probably want listen to reason. I guess if everyone agreed on a random speculation that naruto had sharingan then it will become ok to put it in his article as a fact. Maybe we should change the website name to "naruto theories" lol.--Ankhael (talk) 03:17, April 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * You say that the spiral eye isn't clearly stated to be Indra's Mangekyō. The same could be said for the opposite: we can't be sure it isn't Indra's Mangekyō. I'd like you to read carefully here:
 * From a young age, Indra was recognised as a prodigy even in his legendary father's eyes. Having inherited his father's powerful chakra and spiritual energy, Indra possessed a weaker version of his father's dōjutsu, which became the Sharingan, as well as its enhanced form, the Mangekyō Sharingan. When first seen, Indra's eyes, containing a spiral-like pattern which originated at his pupils and covered his irides, which was presumably his Mangekyō form.
 * I think it satisfies both sides this way.--JOA20 (talk) 06:43, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

Except the manga stated he was born with his eyes and spiritual power not a weaker form of it. But I do see your point in making it fair. I thought it would be fair to state or talk about his mangekyo sharingan in the article and talk about his spiral eyes in his trivia. Or making a section about his spiral eyes. Maybe something like this. "Indra's first appearance shows him with spiral like eyes, many believe that this is his mangekyo sharingan.". I think it's fair to say something like that or trivialized his spiral eyes. His spiral eyes is mystery and assuming that the spiral eyes is his mangekyo sharingan to me is just to vague right now, however we do know he has Mangekyō Sharingan. --Ankhael (talk) 21:51, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Fact Policy
As I've noticed you've taken a message straight to Dantman, we've already had a discussion. A long one in fact. May want to look at before declaring a discussion is not following policy and threatening to report a whole mess of people.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:32, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

Also--Elveonora (talk) 21:20, April 10, 2014 (UTC)