Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-44916514-20200123204114/@comment-43403813-20200201203830

@Jason

So are you allowing Itachi to have the crow already out from the get-go? Because that's not how it happened in the manga. That took time to come out of Naruto and a while to activate, since the activation process is sequential: Itachi activates his Mangekyo on crow -> crow activates Mangekyo on Itachi.

Also, I've only just figured this out, but how would a similar Koto trap be created for Madara in the first place? Itachi was able to make the Koto trap in the manga because he programmed it to react to his specific eyes, since he figured that Sasuke would transplant them into himself. Obviously, he was able to create this trap because he had access to his own eyes. >>> But Itachi has never had access to Madara's Mangekyo Sharingan before. He has never been in close proximity or in possession of Madara's eyes either. So how would the Koto crow know to work on Madara Uchiha's eyes in the first place? It would have no image of Madara's Mangekyo Sharingan imbedded into it. How can the crow be programmed to work on an eye that Itachi has never had access to? Itachi once programmed his eyes, whilst in Sasuke, to use Amaterasu on Obito because he has seen and interacted with Obito closely. Itachi was partially lucky with his plan; he HAD the eyes to make the Koto crow effective for both situations of Edo Itachi Uchiha and Sasuke Uchiha. I don't think that his Koto crow can be used universally unless he has had access to the specific individual's eyes for the programming of the technique. I think I've undone your whole argument with this, unless you're gonna tell me that Koto crow can be programmed to work on a specific eye that Itachi has never seen or has no recollection of.

Madara's Susanoo was completely destroyed, and his body was obliterated completely too by the Tengai Shinsei, like running a hot knife through butter. This was Edo Madara. Later on, a repressed Edo Madara (repressed by Hashirama's Wood Dragons) perfectly tanked a senjutsu-amped Oodama Rasenshuriken point-blank to his body like it was nothing, and this was before all of his upgrades. This is insane, considering that a normal rasenshuriken caused substantial damage to the Third Raikage. >>> This obviously shows that rather than ninjutsu, the sheer force of momentum and the impact of the Tengai Shinsei was leagues above the damage caused by Naruto's amped techniques to a weakened Madara, as it turned Madara's body and his Susanoo to nothing. Hence, whilst a Juubi streamed Bijuu Dama is incredibly strong, chakra preservation and resilience is a thing. No, I am not comparing a senjutsu-amped Rasenshuriken to Juubi Bijuu Dama, but my point is that you are making an assumption that a Tengai Shinsei, let alone DOZENS of Tengai Shinseis, cannot destroy the Kurama avatar by comparing it to a technique of a completely different nature.

How does your reference to Itachi's Amaterasu prove that Koto is continual? Itachi doesn't maintain Amaterasu, he casts it and it spreads on its own, as shown when the Uchiha Hideout was engulfed in Amaterasu. No, Ao said the technique was "undone", as in broken, not that Danzo stopped controlling it. Bro, Kotoamatsukami having to be maintained nerfs its utility like crazy, and all the other instances of its use contradict what you are trying to infer.

I've explained this before, but Madara doesn't need to know the exact name of the technique. If all of the clones looking at the afflicted Madara acknowledge the build-up of chakra in Itachi's eyeball with their multiple Rinnegans, then they will know that a genjutsu has been cast and break the afflicted Madara out of it by informing him, because realisation breaks this genjutsu. Also, all the other clones wouldn't be affected by this genjutsu either, since clones don't share the experiences and feelings of each other until they poof.