Talk:Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation

"Sensitive ability"
Amaterasu has showed a weak point on this technique, but I don't think only the Uchiha's black fire can do this. I think that the "inorganic life" can avoid the danger through a sensitive ability, like the live being does. Indeed they don't have the organelles of the cells with that function, but since they can "detect" and attack a target, I think they can also do this. So what do you think? The only weak point of this jutsu is Amaterasu or general intense heat?--Spcmn (talk) 14:44, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * They can revert to their previous state? It's a bit confusing to me because organic beings don't have previous states to revert to. For now, unless someone can find a precise scientific reason for that happening, I think what Kabuto said exactly should be mentioned, no assumptions.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:48, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * While I find it plausible, given that "response to stimuli" does fit with at least the biological definition of life, I don't believe Kabuto's statement alone is enough to confidently assert that this is what occurred. Blackstar1 (talk) 14:52, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Name
Should we change the name of this technique to Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation whether that allows any object to be reincarnated without using the internal energy? Shakhmoot (Talk) 14:55, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's best leaving the decision about this technique's name to ShounenSuki, seeing how the used here is the same as that in Summoning: Impure World Resurrection. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:01, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. Move it when we have raws. It might be that tensei can translate to something else.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:05, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * It would fit with the others romaji translation, but we do have to wait for ShounenSuki.--Spcmn (talk) 15:08, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Calling it "reincarnation" doesn't make sense. Resurrecting something that was never alive to begin with? Say what? :O And was this technique actually named? I don't recall seeing one. o3o Edit: Never mind on that name bit, I see my answer in the infobox. Skitts (talk) 15:49, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

It should be 'resurrection', indeed. But maybe Suki-senpai thinks something else is more fitting. Seelentau 愛議 11:01, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Transmigration = Transfiguration ?!?
Sort of interesting. On the one hand we have:
 * Transmigration of the soul or reincarnation, a spiritual belief

yet, on the other hand, we have:
 * transitive verb — to cause to go from one state of existence or place to another

Although that last one can be read in the same way, after the Harry Potter madness it isn't out of the range of possibilities to view this as:
 * inorganic to organic transfiguration.

It seems magic truly has found its way into the Naruto World. LOL--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 23:15, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * As I said above, the correct translation would be 'resurrection' ;) Seelentau 愛議 23:31, April 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * We can also see the Impure World Resurrection (that has the same "Tensei") as a form of changing two souls of place in one body of this living world. @Seelentau, according with Jisho.org, "Transmigration of souls" also fit with those Kanji of "tensei". So I don't think theres a correct form, but we can think in a appropriate form.--Spcmn (talk) 23:38, April 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, that translation is not really accurate. 転 'ten' means 'revolve', 'turn around' or 'change', 生 'sei' means 'life' or 'existence'. But 転生 'tensei' really means 'resurrection' or 'reincarnation'. It's apparantly a buddhistic term. Seelentau 愛議 23:48, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Natural Energy, or Yin-Yang release?
In the translation I read, which I don't entirely trust, so please correct me if I'm wrong, Just says that Kabuto instills life into inanimate objects, but doesn't state how he actually does it. If the translation I read is correct, while instilling natural energy into it is a good theory on how the technique works, based on how Kabuto was relating himself to the sage of six paths, I think its more likely that its Yin-Yang release or one of its composite elements. I can also understand how the phrase "different from jutsus that simply control with chakra" might make you think that he was using natural energy, but I think he was just comparing creating life to controling a medium through chakra, such as earth and water release. I'm not saying you should put it as Yin-Yang release, by the way, I just think that using natural energy to instill life should be removed until confirmed. Also, sages don't control pure natural energy, they use sage chakra, so anything he would control would still have chakra in it.128.123.203.94 (talk) 02:08, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought of Yang Release as well when I saw this technique. Not Yin-Yang Release, because this didn't create form, just animated it. Only more exposition or the next databook to clarify that. Exposition will probably come first, manga is probably near its end, and it wouldn't make sense for a databook to be released, leaving only a small part of the plot for a potential fifth databook. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:46, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought it was yang as well, I just didn't want to assume that it was that specifically, because others have different opinions, so I stated all of them and the way the sentence came out, makes it seem like I thought it was the combined element. Obviously, it was me that made the post, I just made an account.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 02:56, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Considering it's Senjutsu, Natural Energy seems a much more likely source than Yang Release. Skitts (talk) 03:02, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sage chakra can be converted into any nature just like regular chakra. Kabuto also hinted he derived the technique from orochimaru's studies. Orochimaru wasn't a sage, so it isn't likely to be a jutsu that can only be used in sage mode. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 05:35, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * IMO this is best considered as Yang. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 06:10, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm well aware that Senjutsu chakra can have its nature transformed MangekyoSasuke. That has been shown since the chapter it was introduced. This technique (which wwas NOT said to have anything to do with Orochimaru) was said to go beyond manipulation with chakra. This could be Yang Release (which is supposed to deal with giving life), but considering it wasn't called Yang Release (which even in Sage Mode, characters use the nature type) and it's Senjutsu, there is just as much a chance that it accomplishes the feat with Natural energy. Also, given the fact that aside from hearing what the Sage did and the Wood Release's reaction to Naruo's Yang chakra cloak, we've never seen usage of Yang Release. Skitts (talk) 06:20, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have we ever seen a technique that's called either Onmyōton, Yōton, or Inton??? And I mean that in the "Wind Release: Rasenshuriken" way, and not like Yamato's exposition about non-elemental techniques. The author has given his readers just enough information to keep them busy on internet forums for a week. I've seen people arguing it's just an Earth release technique... or something similar to the toad stomach summoning. And you can't blame them. Take away Kabuto's words and it doesn't look all that amazing anymore.--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 12:13, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kabuto said that this goes beyond manopulation with chakra, meaning it's not Earth Release. He would have said Earth Release or it's nature if it was, hence my previous point. Skitts (talk) 12:28, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * And I countered that by asking whether we have ever seen a technique called Onmyōton something, Yōton something, or Inton something. I can't remember anything like that off the top of my head. So your point is mute, as there is no requirement to have Yōton included in the technique's name.
 * As for Kabuto's statement... even Banbutsu Sōzō involves manipulating chakra, so I don't really take that seriously without more information than we've been given. As for natural energy being the source of this technique... that would require a RetCon, because natural energy doesn't do anything by itself apparently.
 * Hopefully, next week we'll see the end of this twilight zone madness and get an explanation about what Izanami is, and what Sage Art: Inorganic Transmigration is.--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 13:26, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * This technique being similar to Earth Release is a simple misconception caused by Kabuto being surrounded entirely by rock at the time of use. Dependent upon Kishi's definition of inorganic, the things that could be manipulated is potentially incredibly vast, ranging from metals to various liquids, or even parts of the very air.


 * Anyway, I don't see much issue in considering this technique as a result of natural energy for now, given that even if it were use of a more specific chakra (senjutsu, yang or otherwise) it would have still had to originate from natural energy to begin with and then be converted as the technique is considered a "sage art". Blackstar1 (talk) 13:32, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * You (Joolusko) seem to think I'm trying to refute your whole post. I'm not, I'm pointing out that, as Kabuto said this technique goes beyond manipulating objects with chakra, not manipulating chakra itself, which is why it isn't Earth Release. Unless it's very obvious (Raikiri, Kirin), the nature is always said, even in Sage Mode. Skitts (talk) 13:40, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'm confused why two people respond to the most irrelevant part of my post...that about Earth Release. I agree that it's not an Earth Release, as the Doton part would probably have been mentioned. But because of the lack of information, I have seen people trying to make it as such.
 * Anyway Skitts, wasn't your point that Yōton should have been added to the name if it was a Yang Release? Which was the point I was trying to counter!?
 * Hmmm, but you make an interesting point about going beyond manipulating objects with chakra. I made a half serious comparison to transfiguration (Harry Potter) one section above. We could be talking about manipulating objects with life force, sort of like Full Metal Alchemist. It would explain the name. And the lack of Yōton in the name.--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 14:05, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yin-Yang release is still chakra, Natural Energy is not ... it's more like some amplifier. I think he uses both Yang Release enhanced with Natural Energy, unless it by default gives life--Elveonora (talk) 13:58, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

@Joolshuko Erg. My only point isn't that "Yang Release:" should be added, which you never actually countered, you just said there was no evidence. My point is, Yang Release is STILL chakra. Kabuto is obviously manipulating what he's giving life to, and the fact that he stated that this goes beyong manipulating something with chakra means it isn't Yang Release unless Kishi decides to randomly conflict with that statement. Skitts (talk) 14:24, April 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ignoring the first sentence that would lead to a pointless argument...if Kabuto goes beyond manipulating something with chakra, then (1) I agree that it doesn't make sense for it to be Yang Release, and (2) it makes even less sense for it to use a component of chakra; i.e. natural energy. The logical conclusion is that Kabuto is using something different to manipulate objects. Something like Souls, or Life Force. He's exchanging chakra for the ability to manipulate something with Souls or Life Forces. That would fit with his personality and role within the story.--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 14:48, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

So is it a ninjutsu if he is not using chakra ?--Elveonora (talk) 15:00, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

He is using chakra. Otherwise, there would be no need for hand seals. Thus it is a Ninjutsu. Seelentau 愛議 15:24, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

@Seelentau could you translate what Kabuto says about that? I'm going to feel rather stupid if the actual Japanese is different than what the scanlators gave us (wouldn't be the first time...) Skitts (talk) 15:26, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have a raw yet :/ Seelentau 愛議 17:06, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Aw, me have sad face naow. :/ Skitts (talk) 17:23, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Hm, I did just find one potentially similarly odd thing. Frog Kata is labelled as a Senjutsu technique, even though it just uses external Natural energy, but it can only be used in Sage Mode. Skitts (talk) 17:25, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Everything that requires the use of natural energy is called Senjutsu. Seelentau 愛議 17:37, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought they were techniques that used Senjutsu chakra? Not quite the same. o3o Skitts (talk) 17:44, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * uuh... Senchakra is made of physical, psychical and natural energy. Thus, everything that uses those three energies/that kind of chakra is Senjutsu. Seelentau 愛議 18:43, April 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Skitts, going back to an earlier post, you said that it should have been labeled as a yang release ninjutsu if it was. But manga history has shown that unlike the five major elements and their combined versions, yin, yang, and yin-yang release techniques have never been labeled as such. The shadow imitation, multi-size, and medical ninjutsus were never labeled to be as such, be they were confirmed to be one one those three elements. I'm highly doubtful Kishi is going to change tradition and start labeling them.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 18:47, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dang, these distinctions will be the end of me. @Seelentau I know that, but doesn't Frog Kata use Natural energy outside the body, not that which has been merged to create SenChakra? Anyway, seeing as I'm the only one arguing for this, I think I should stop. :) Skitts (talk) 18:50, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Kabuto's Life Force
I think it's possible that Kabuto instils his life force into the rocks. He does have a strong life force now, due to studying Karen. -- Cidem1324 (talk) 06:46, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * He can heal himself, I don't think you can steal someone's life force...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:55, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Uhm, you can steal someone's soul from the afterlife as per Edo Tensei. Unfortunately, the relation between soul and life force is somewhat fuzzy. A better example would probably be the shodai's DNA that every Uchiha seem to be compatible with for some unfathomable reason. Although again, a somewhat fuzzy distinction. And you can die without sufficient chakra, which coupled with chakra absorption techniques, basically means that...by induction, you probably can steal someone's life force.--Joolushko Tunai Fenta Hovalis (talk) 17:47, April 15, 2012 (UTC)