Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-36157725-20180816213118/@comment-34194151-20180818221254

@Blazerelease I'm just gonna keep this shorter than I want to. Subsitution creates the optical illusion that you are hit. Madara was never hit, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to escape because he would have been hit by the sealing jutsu. Sasuke didn't figure out anything. He saw the clone the whole time, he saw it move back to madara. That was object identification. He made a theory that madara couldn't use his shadow again for some time, and he was wrong. If he can see the information in front of him, then it isn't deduction. Madara used limbo style subsitution. Instead of a log he left a limbo clone in his place. Sasuke's "Strategy" cost kakashi an eye. And we have seen subsitution enough times in this manga to see that that was clearly what madara did. And your argument doesn't make sense. You say sasuke's plan worked yet madara escaped... I also never stated that madara's deduction there was something brilliant either, it was actually not much better than what sasuke did, he just stated what he saw and what was obvious. It was also something the average mind could do.

Unnnecessary extra work? C'mon. Look at gaara vs 2nd mizukage, Look at the 5 kages countering madara's preta path abilitiy. Hell, look at Team 7 vs kaguya. Sasuke himself disagrees with you, because he showed better strategy vs kaguya actually and that was critical to sealing her. In order for those victories to be succesfull, they needed to create a far more complex strategy than a speed blitz. Speed blitz isn't some brilliant plan. A bloodlusted and idiotic/sucidical 4th raikage could do that. Hell, sasuke's plan to kill itachi, despite him formulating it for 3 years, was better than what he did to madara, but by your logic that was "extra work" too huh?

I won't take the time going off on shikamaru, because i was refering more so to his father, who i think is smarter than shikamaru.

As for your other points, you just repeated what you already stated or ignored context so if you are interested, I would suggest you reread my points, and the reconsider context, because since you are already showing disinterest in continuing, there is no point in me typing up a big essay again while adding scans and other details. for a brief summary, itachi wanted to die in his fight vs sasuke so him spamming amaterasu made sense, the 5 kage had sensor types with them, which sasuke didn't think of,  Danzo wasn't shown to be a shinobi stupid enough to attack an ultimate defense with a kunai, he only became that dumb vs sasuke, and there is no proof that you can't teleport inside susano'o, in fact it was already shown that users can be attacked within their susano'o, such as when gaara pulled madara out of his. so if Zetsu didn't call him out, the sensors would have detected them. Even if after he realized his cover was blown, sasuke didn't engage in what was called a TACTICAL RETREAT, he fought the kages head on like an idiot, and would have died. Here is my point, Obito and sasuke had the same information: 5 kage are strongest shinobi on earth. Obito goes in to rescue sasuke, then makes tactical retreat. Sasuke doesn't make tactical retreat and nearly dies. Obito> sasuke.

so my point still stands that obito sent sasuke into certain death, and obito had to save sasuke's life. Therefore, obito successfully manipulated sasuke. And your logic is flawed too, because obito also realized Madara was manipulating him, which is why he betrayed him and wanted to cast the genjutsu for himself, he even tells madara that he never considered him a friend. Dude, Koto was far better than izanagi. Simple : use koto on obito with the command : Obito kill sasuke, then kill yourself. Danzo then takes both their sharingan and goes about his buisness. Sasuke using Kirin without a back-up plan isn't that smart, because it required him to use all his chakra. That is same mistake Konan did versus Obito, she overextended her hand and didn't study her opponent thoroughly. HE didn't study all of itachi's abilities, itachi could have also used izanagi which sasuke didn't know about too, So no Kirin would have never worked because sasuke didn't plan well. Everything else I said in my previous post still stands, so if you review that and this comment and are interested in a longer discussion, I'd be happy to reply with a more in depth explanation, but right now I feel that you aren't keeping an open mind. You disregared Obito's lack of conviction and belief in the eye of the moon plan, which is a separate issue from intelligence. You ignored the fact that he didn't capture naruto in the inn because he wanted to talk to him about sasuke and nagato, and even if he tried, he wouldn't have succeeded there. Obito needed the rinnegan boosts to beat naruto. Sasuke could deduced izanagi because he saw it happen like 5 times, the sharingan can see and percieve chakra/jutsu, and anyone with half a brain can see that danzo'eyes were closing every time he used the technique. MEanwhile Shikamaru's father deduced a complex strategy to blind and immobilze the ten-tails using techniques from the alliance that he just learned about, if you thought all he did was use shadow stitching in that fight, idk what to tell you. He didn't just have the alliance spam attacks, there was strategic value to each attack he asked them to do. Zetsu was trolling the alliance because of his ability to transform into other shinobi, kabuto was irrelevant in that regard. Sasuke using genjutsu on Danzo was in fact not smart, because Danzo made it clear he could detect when sasuke uses genjutsu and break it. The genjutsu only worked because of plot. Sasuke can't control time perception, and Danzo is smart enough to know how much time he had with izanagi, basic math, count number of eyes left and times it by 60, and you get how much time in seconds is left on the jutsu. Someone as paranoid and cautious as him won't be tricked by genjutsu like that all of a sudden.

Sasuke is smart, but compared to obito he has made more tactical errors. And no, I didn't find your comment to be rude.n And for the record, I never stated obito was a genius either, just that he was smarter than sasuke and was still smart himself.