Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26005711-20150512133037/@comment-26773508-20150728145823

Yalocalsupahero wrote: @QuakingStar,

If we're talking about silver spoons, what no Kakashi? Naruto and Sasuke getting some of The Sage of The Six Paths power, sure. They're the Main Character and the Rival. But Kakashi ending up with a bunch of powers from Obito that Obito never had and some of The Sage's power because of course he did.

Kakashi the "genius" that didn't realize a glowing, screaming magic fist made a bad assassination move. Kakashi's powerup was BS as hell but not nearly as BS as Naruto and Sasuke's Hagoromo powerups. Kakashi's powerup was temporary, and lasted for less than an hour. On the other hand, Sasuke gets his own brand of Rinnegan that can travel to Kaguya's dimensions, as well as instantly control all the tailed beasts SIMULTANEOUSLY!! And all of those powers were permanent. That is beyond S-rank BS!! I dunno if Naruto still has Six Paths Senjutsu, which was also a BS powerup in its own right.

Also @QuakingStar where in the manga has Madara likened Tobirama as his equal? He definitely praised his skills and speed, but nowhere do I see him calling Tobirama his equal. In fact, Madara as well as many other characters have repeatedly stated that only Hashirama could stop Madara. In fact, Madara openly stated that 8 Gates Guy was the ONLY ONE apart from Hashirama who excited Madara to such levels. No mention of Tobirama. He is at best equal to MS Madara, but in no way is Tobirama equal to EMS Madara.

Also, it seems pretty obvious that Hiruzen being the "God of Shinobi" has been retconned. Hashirama cells are the most OP upgrades in Narutoverse. Nobody gives a fuck about Hiruzen's cells. If corporations were as powerful in Narutoverse as they are in the real world, the shinobis would be bombarded with advertisements like:

"Your body's entire right half has been smashed by boulders? Don't worry! Here, get Hashi cells and become OP as fuck!"

"Wanna use Kotoamatsukami more than once per day? Here, get Hashi cells that recharge Shisui's eyes in a matter of hours!! Without them, it would take more than a decade, baka-yaro kono-yaro!!"

"Wanna control Kurama better than others?? Here, get Hashi cells and bind him with your Wood Dragon Jutsu!!"

Also it seems reasonable to suppose that Obito didn't go blind with overuse of Kamui because of Hashi cells. Anyway, Prime Hashirama>Prime Hiruzen. Too many statements in Shippuden confirm this. The most telling one is when Obito first becomes Juubi's Jinchuriki, Hashirama states that Obito is now "even stronger than ME!" To which Hiruzen replies, "No offense! But it seems so." Hiruzen is clearly acknowledging Hashirama's superiority here.

Also going by the whole supremacy of the Senju Clan plotline that Kishi introduced late in the manga, it is not unreasonable to suppose that Prime Tobirama>Prime Hiruzen (with Hiruzen's strength being retconned). Of course, it is entirely possible that Prime Hiruzen>Prime Tobirama, but both lack the feats for a decisive battle. I'm going with Tobirama because of his performance against Juubito. Hiruzen, with his wide arsenal of jutsus, would have also been a tremendous asset for the Alliance against Juubito. But all we saw was that Hiruzen couldn't even get past a severely nerfed version of Hashirama's Thousand Armed Kannon jutsu, or whatever its called. That to me indicates that Kishi doesn't care about Hiruzen enough, which makes the assumption of a retcon all the more plausible.