Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34194151-20180916143901

1)

Still haven't refuted any of my main points here. pre-time skip Gaara reacted to the technique without any prior knowledge, enough said. if he couldn't react he wouldn't have had time to rise into the sky and save lee as well. ABC logic with gaara's sand doesn't work, as that sand was amplified by ohnoki. Don't see how gaara's amplified sand = kimimaro's bones, plus madara wasn't expecting the sand to get so fast, he had no trouble avoiding it before hand, notice how gaara never pulled that trick on him again, enough said. And not to mention, madara was already standing on the sand, which is way different than bones disturbing the ground and fissuring it, which can be heard/ seen beforehand. Still haven't addressed friendly fire from the technique. Like I said, if gaara had the common sense to jump, so can itachi. he can use susano'o in the air to prevent himself from being impaled, then land on a safe-haven bone. Ninjas are literally trained in the ability to move on trees and other objects, it can be done. You just assume itachi is inexperienced enough to just stand there and use susano'o when he has experience seeing bones erupting out of the ground all over the place. He is a mobile opponent and can jump. The technique is clearly deadly and a threat, but not something uncounterable by itachi. hence, why team oro needs to a bit more creative to actually land that technique on him. Itachi speficially failed to react to the inorganic renamiation because he used up that time protecting sasuke. he would have dealt with it accordingly without being distracted. I feel like you aren't giving the appropriate credit to itachi's abilities here.

2)um, what now? OBito underestimated her. He knew she was preparing a trap yet walked right into it. Doesn't show a speed feat from konan. Shows her tactics, which I've stated multiple times to be good, so this is beating a dead horse, and is no grounds to call me biased. Konan better tactician than itachi? seriously? She used a suicide attack instead of using a clone to take the fall for her, and it still failed. By your logic itachi is at minimum just as competent because amaterasu actually landed on obito (and the dude wasn't even alive, we are talking about itachi in death here, and yet you are comparing to that to konan in actual battle, where she has more attempts to enact a win-condition), forcing him to use izanagi, whereas konan's initial attack took away an arm, but still left obito in fighting condition. The dude had no trouble sacrificing his own arm against fuu and torune. She also overextended her hand, using a big technique that wasted all her chakra, despite having prep time, and doing "many simulations". guess those simulations didn't account for the fact that she would be defenseless after the technique was completed. She analyzed kamui because she observed obito specifically for years, and she still assumed that the great "madara uchiha" was a one trick pony, and that's how she ended up being countered and outsmarted. Itachi's goals were different. his main priority was protecting sasuke from the darkness. He first planted amaterasu in his eyes. obito countered it whatever, most likely using izanagi there too ironically, given that obito admitted he would have been dead otherwise if itachi knew whatever additional scecret he had. itachi is dead at that point, nothing he could do, except he had a contingency. Kotoamatsukami crow in naruto. Obito didn't see that one coming, now did he? Obito would have been outsmarted by itachi in terms of his goals to manipulate sasuke if not for kabuto reviving itachi, enough said. And even ignoring this, itachi has shown better in-battle intelligence and wisdom feats than konan, don't see how this is even debatable. Itachi's goal wasn't to kill obito in the same way that konan did. Konan opted for a straight up battle, albeit with prep time, and still failed. Itachi simply didn't want obito manipulating sasuke, and he set two traps, and while the first one failed, the second one would have succeeded. Itachi actually had a backup plan in case his first one failed, whereas Konan literally overextended to the absolute limit, both times. All those years of observation then enough prep time to do simulations and she couldn't come up with a plan that didn't invlove A, killing herself, or B, exhausting ALL her stamina and leaving herself defenseless? Konan is being overrated in this department, she is good but not on itachi's level. ITachi had the foresight to know Obito would give sasuke itachi's eyes and then have sasuke fight naruto. It was itachi who foresaw all of obito's moves in the end, not the otherway around. If itachi felt the amaterasu trap was enough, then there would be no need to give naruto shisui's eyes, as obito would have died and sasuke wouldn't have learned the truth and wouldn't have turned on konoha. So no, Konan isn't better than itachi at tactics. Itachi, even in death, was scheming and succeeding, whereas konan had multiple tries to enact her win condition against obito and failed to get the job done and didn't even optimize her own moves.

3) Amaterasu burned through the fire-resistant toad stomach instantly. Amaterasu burning slowly only happens for plot purposes. it engulfed the eight tails pretty fast, also itachi killed nagato's cerberus summon fairly quickly. And now amaterasu is being compared to mere katon? c'mon. when was konan burned by jiraiya exactly? In the manga she got one shotted by oil.

4) Did I say the blade was instant? No I didn't. But faster than orochimaru's reaction time, yes. You could see the question mark in his dialouge, indicating surprise.Him being able to move or not is irrelevant when he clearly failed to register a mental reaction to the blade. Orochimaru has to predict the blade to avoid it, can he do so? yes. So itachi will have to outsmart him to land it, which is within his area of expertise. comparing the totuska blade to kn4 naruto is baseless, because the same dude who could react to kn6 naruto couldn't react to the blade with his signature moves-preta path, shinra tensei, enough said. It's clear that the speed of susano'o's thrust with the blade is fast.

5) Sure it is. We are gonna ignore the clear feats of itachi's intelligence with clone feints and ninjutsu tactics? Kakashi by his own admssion admitted that that what itachi showed there was "barely half " of what he could actually do with ninjutsu and stuff. So a jobbing 3 tomoe itachi literally outsmarted kakashi with his tactics and didn't leave himself open to any attacks from kakashi. Itachi is clearly on par with shikamaru when it comes to tactics like that, and argubaly better because shikamaru needs time to sit and think. And I'd argue that kakashi is a better tactician than konan is. kakashi figured out the weakness of kamui in less time and coordinated the use of kamui multiple times with allies and outsmarted obito several times, obito only lived due to his durability. they both had the tools to take on their opponent, and kakashi did it better. Obito knew what kakashi was capable of with the other kamui and was still outsmarted.