Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-34656247-20180528093116/@comment-33959444-20180601013344

@Jason of the Mangekyou I did forget about that, so I guess Sound Genjutsu won't help. I explained how Jiraiya will probably manage to enter SM.

That wasn't the Humanoid Susano'o. You can see it had a skeleton. His Humanoid Susano'o seems to have a robe and has no skeleton.

Jiraiya and Kakashi in base can still be debated. The only thing is that Jiraiya in base has no speed feats. However, if we go by hype, it certainly does seem that having the name of Legendary Sannin is greater than Kakashi's title.

True, but Jiraiya does have the Fire Sealing Scroll. It's impractical as a defense, but it can still be used. Jiraiya can counter Susano'o with Swamp of the Underworld.

Care to explain how Hiruzen and Minato destroy Obito and Madara?

Hiruzen as an old man was strong, but he alone certainly can't do much. Madara with the MS has no feats, but we do know that as a reanimation, he was effortlessly going through countless Shinobi in the Fourth Division with just Taijutsu while he only had the Three Tomoe Sharingan activated. He only brought out the MS once the Kage and Naruto jumped in. And during his fight with the Five Kage, his Skeletal Susano'o and Humanoid Susano'o (I'm assuming that MS Madara can use them since they're the earliest stages of the Susano'o) alone were causing trouble. It took Tobirama (who was relative to base Minato) to defeat MS Izuna, who was on par with MS Madara. Remember that this was Tobirama after fighting Izuna for entire years, so it took a while to finally defeat him. I don't think Minato and Hiruzen would defeat Obito and Madara easily, especially with their Susano'o and Kamui combined.

@Nashikeine Nah, I can't really get in now. This thread has a lot of text to read through, now that you guys are debating, that I can't be bothered with for right now. I'm just responding to the things you guys direct at me.