Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26107879-20180325045722/@comment-34752936-20180325085720

Madara called Tobirama the fastest shinobi (from their time), but he's never straight up called Tobirama an equal. In fact, he's more often said "the only man who can beat me, is Senju Hashirama", so I don't know what you're talking about...The exact quote is "There's a reason why you brothers can't bring out your true strength... call it coincidence... call it fate... but there's a gulf between our skills now". You're adding in your own context while ignoring what he really said.

He's talking about both brothers, but you're trying to cut Hashirama out of the conversation and make it seem like it's all about Tobirama. It's not. Tobirama has never been an equal to either of them, that's why they are the rivals and he isn't. There is a gulf between the combined might of the Senju Brothers and Madara, that is what is being said. And nothing about it allowing him to win was stated. If you're gonna try to bring up the quote, look at it in context.I already said, we do not know if the quote was true or not. But the fact that Madara can be directly quoted saying that the only person who can defeat him is Hashirama is far more concrete than a line from Itachi's lie from a story.

You can't possibly try to convince me that a line from a story we know was bull is somehow more logical than a line supported by multiple stories. Madara called Hashirama his equal. Tobi called him his equal. Hashirama showed us a story that made them out to be close to equal and above everybody else (Tobirama being scared shitless by his tired brother). There's far more evidence supporting my "idea" than yours. We don't know if anything Itachi said was real, we do know that what Madara said was real though. And considering this is EMS Madara,this fight should be placed after Izuna's death,right? Since Madara got EMS after Izuna's death.Hashirama NEVER wanted to kill Madara, and he held back accordingly. If the story says Izuna and Madara were equal when they had MS, they were equal. It's just Tobirama was actually fighting to kill, while Hashirama was fighting to defeat only. Which was never enough to beat Madara. And we saw what happened when hashirama finally got his resolve up to kill Madara; he killed him.Point is, Izuna and Madara were equal as MS brothers. And Tobirama proved he could take down one, so the other will most likely fall to Tobirama too. Madara didn't start overtaking Tobirama til he got EMS, and even with EMS it'd still be a very hard fight for Madara. So if Tobirama can beat MS Izuna who is slightly weaker than EMS Madara,then EMS Madara would win against Tobirama. Don't get me wrong,Tobirama is strong. If it had been MS Madara vs Tobirama,I would've had to lean to Tobirama's side.