Talk:Wood Release: Cutting Technique

Black Rods
Since this will be brought up. The black rods in question are on the following pages of chapter 605: 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 14, 15Umishiru (talk) 05:50, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have to doubt those were chakra receivers unless Madara put them in him. As far as we know those are only afforded to the Outer Path, so the information shouldn't be mixing with this in that manner.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:28, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Kanj and name?
err, I don't know about the correct Kanji yet, but 挿す sasu means to insert, 挿し木 sashiki describes this. 刺す Sasu means to pierce. I think Kishimoto-sensei made a pun here, using 刺し木, which means piercing branch/wood/whatever. Seelentau 愛議 08:49, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Anoooo. You sure that Spiral Zetsu called the technique's name? One scan house has it and the other simply has "wood release". Though it's odd I'd prefer to trust Mangastream because I don't know how Obito would have learned to use a specific Mokuton technique already...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:28, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but personally, I would never trust mangastream. They f-ed up way too often for me to see them as a good translating group. They only make HQ images, that's all. That said, we can only wait for the raw, though I don't think a fan translator would come up with such a pun, since it would somewhat destroy his credibility, huh? Seelentau 愛議 10:36, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dunno. They've been known to have a spark of ingenuity every once in a while. Still the raws or even a spoiler script would be welcomed.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:01, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Mangastream used to have a reliable translator, his name was HisshouBuraiKen. Used to rush a bit and spice up technique names now and then to make them sound cooler, but generally delivered solid translations. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:58, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

From the raws, it would appear that the technique was actually named. However, this makes me feel that Spiral Zetsu was involved in the "process" a bit more than people think/can see.--Cerez 365 ™(talk)
 * In that case it should be renamed to Wood Release: Inserting Tree Technique or so. As I said, 挿し木 describes the cutting of plants. The pun still exists, it's not so deep anymore, though. Seelentau 愛議 21:48, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should make it similar to Earth Release: Sandwich Technique. Put the name with the pun, list the different literal name, and then explain the pun? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * uh, there's no pun in the Sandwich Technique, that name's just a Gairaigo. Here we have 挿し木, which describes the cutting of plants and is literally translated to Inserting Tree. It may or may not be a coincidence that one could change 挿 to 刺, which changes the inserting to piercing, thus fitting the technique's usage. It's up to you if you want to write down this homophone, but there are plenty of other homophonic Kanji. Seelentau 愛議 00:21, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering that the term for this in English is actually "cutting", it might be the case to call this "Wood Release: Cutting Technique". I would also not be surprised if come next volume, the kanji for this technique is changed to make the pun more apparent. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:31, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

All of them
i was just wondering how we know that the technique consisted of all three times it was;supposedly, used? to make that clearer; how do we know the move wasn't just the instance he threw the sword? is it because basically they were all the same thing? and as a side note the hand seal used wasn't ram it was just a basic seal. although that doesn't really matter. sleuther (talk) 6:16, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Black Zetsu
I noticed that in his fight with Naruto, Black Zetsu uses a technique that is extraordinarily similar to this one. Part of it can be seen in the panel I've provided. Currently, we have that as a small-scale version of the unnamed Underground Roots Technique, but it seems more likely that it is this technique. And, after seeing just how many unique ways Obito could use it in his first time, I don't think it would be improbable to say that Black Zetsu also has his own unique way of using it, through the ground. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:18, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Possible, but I wouldn't bet on it. I recall bringing this up somewhere, but I believe the technique might be limited only to the growth of the wood spear Obito threw, the one he made grow with a hand seal. Considering that the name of the technique refers to a way to make a new plant grow from a cut part, that is the action in the chapter that most aptly matches the name of the technique. There's the chance the volume release will change the name, because the pun Seelentau explained sections above looks just like something Kishimoto would do, but unless that's the case, I think only one of the things Obito did that chapter is actually this technique, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to want it split. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:46, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's not what I was suggesting. Haha, sorry, I made it too vague. I was suggesting that what Black Zetsu is using, rather, is Wood Release: Cutting Technique. He's doing somethings very similar to it in that panel I posted, namely, turning his limbs into branches, creating new ones from his limbs, the like. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:06, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * And what I meant is that the turning limb into branch might not be Cutting Technique. The name best describes only one thing Obito did, which wasn't the first Wood Release attack. It was the thin wood spear he threw and made grow. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:27, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Ten-Tails as a user and restructuring the article.
Now for the two million dolar question on everyone's mind... first, chapter 614, where we see the Juubi, using a Wood Release technique, so is it his own, or did it have Obito's imput since he can the same technique?

Second, the article displays the technique as a close combat technique, even though it's literally a projectile style technique, and it says it has a larger scale version due to the image of the giant roots with the body bits of Kiri-nin all over them. Now i see this last bit as a little speculation, since by the time we see the giant roots and branches, it's pitch night and it's clear a large portion of the fight was cut off, and since this chapter and Obito's initial use, it's a bit clear that these are separate jutsus. Opinions/ comments are welcomed and necessary. Darksusanoo (talk) 14:22, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd rather list Obito as having used the technique through the Ten-Tails for now. I already brought up the topic of what constitutes the technique above, but I didn't get any reply. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:23, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The user part is being throughly discussed in the Ten-Tails talk page so sempai's imput is always good. As for what makes the technique, it's bit obvious as of this last chapter...which means that Obito used a second Mokuton to finish the fight with the Kiri-nin. Darksusanoo (talk) 02:29, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Soo if anyone wants to lay some imput on what makes the technique. As of the latest chapter it's clear that our initial assumption of this technique having a large scale version is wrong. From what's seen, the Cutting Technique involves using wood projectiles that once they strike a target, they "explode" into multiple branches, while the other spiral like roots appear as different technique altogether. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:12, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

They, this is a projectile wood no jutsu--Elveonora (talk) 02:08, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes i know that, but what i'm trying to point out here is that this technique does not have a large scale version, at least not the one Obito pulled off to finish the Kiri-nin. I'm saying that part should be removed and maybe made into a technique of it's own due to it's unique appearence. Darksusanoo (talk) 02:20, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Based on both the name of this technique and its recent usage, it seems to refer exclusively to a piece of wood separated from the user being made to grow upon contact with its target. This would mean that both the large-scale wood technique and the branches Obito used to impale the Kiri-nin are separate techniques (or just generic uses of Wood Release).--BeyondRed (talk) 05:54, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah...since the last chapter we see that the giant spiral roots Obito uses has nothing to do with this technique. 2.80.178.114 (talk) 18:07, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Well, we might already have an article on which to list that information. Spiral pattern aside, Obito seems to have done what we currently list as Zetsu's underground root technique. We don't currently list that as Wood Release though, as we have it as derived technique of Mayfly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:35, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Sempai, then we should change this already. And since the Zetsu are a derivative of Hashirama/Wood Release, it's time to change most of that as well. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:09, December 20, 2012 (UTC)

Another thing is that this article needs new pics to display it's use as the current one is completely inaccurate. Darksusanoo (talk) 04:13, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, I'm a no on the whole adding Ten-Tails, just so that is out there. As much as it may be possible (though highly improbable) that the beast can use Wood Release, there was too much external factors there to say that for sure. As for this article, I know there's a discussion to remove the thought-to-be "larger scale" version of this technique from the article and call it what Zetsu did (already responded to this), I don't see any other need for the article to change. We can't get an image to depict everything, that is why we use references. As far as I know, there is nothing inaccurate about that image since we can't depict the stake multiplying, and what the Ten-Tail did was just an exaggeration of Obito throwing the stake himself. Also, I just thought of this, and I do think Spiral Zetsu was involved with the first use by Obito, hence the transformation of his right arm and the whole rods sticking out of there as well (being by-products of the Gedo as well) but that's just my speculation on that part.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:01, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually Sempai there's images in pages 11-12 i think of chapter 605 that depicted the proper use of Obito's technique (i've even send you a text in you talk page in regards to that to no reply)...him throwing the stake, imapaling the ninja and it replicating inside the ninja. I believe thos better reflect the nature of the technique and how Spiral Zetsu complimented Obito's skills. Darksusanoo (talk) 12:16, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that would create a gallery on a page that has too little content to support it. That's why we use references. I'm sorry, I didn't see the message, or I read it and forgot to follow up. But this is just my opinion either way.--13:38, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * And so we chose to keep an inaccurate display of it...the image present has nothing to do with this technique. Darksusanoo (talk) 14:02, December 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not inaccurate. I thought the Jutsu allows the user to make pikes of wood to use for close range combat or as projectiles that multiply when they stab through something. Besides in Obito's fight with those Kiri-nin, at one point he stabs that Kiri-nin with the branches that sprouted from his arm, and if you look closer you see the branches that stabbed into those guys split apart when inside. Showing that this Jutsu isn't just long-range.71.71.58.231 (talk) 16:23, December 23, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 * While I agree that this is also an application of the technique, I fell that it's better to use the confirmed use of the technique, which in this case would be when Obito threw the branch. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:25, December 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ten-tails as a user part 2
Ok, so revival of an old discussion...it was originally decided that Obito was the only user of the technique, and used the Ten-Tails as medium for it. Now my problem with that is the mechanics...as far as i can remember, while chakra flow is a common theme in the series, using a full technique through another living creature is not. The only exception to this is if your a jinchuriki, which, by having the beast sealed inside, allows you to channel it's powers, which wasn't the case with Obito and Madara. Plus another small detail...when Obito directed the beast to use the technique, he didn't perform any hands seals to trigger the growth of the trees, as we have seen him do in the past.

Any more opinions/comments on this are welcomed. Darksusanoo (talk) 20:16, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Even though others may disagree, to me it's clear the Ten-Tails' skin is of a wooden nature (not only it's brown but it also resembles bark cracks of a trunk) and the rest of its body has plantish parts/properties. Obito was connected to it with whatever nasty tentacle thing. Kinda like in Avatar with the hair. As much as I love to theorize, I disagree, because listing the Ten-Tails as a user of Wood Release would raise a whole lot of questions and speculation, resulting in edit wars among other things. In my opinion, Obito simply used the Ten-Tails body as a medium for the cutting technique thanks to its related composition, just like a Doton user can manipulate ground around.--Elveonora (talk) 20:36, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow @Elv love this teories of yours ^_^. But a all bunch of new questions would show up, Gedō Mazō skin looks almost the same, don't you think?. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 20:49, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

And yet the mechanics of Obito channeling a technique through a living thing doesn't raise questions? The only thing close to that (other than a jinchuriki) are collaboration techniques, where two individuals perform the technique in unison. Plus the connections of the Ten-Tails with nature-related themes: it's senjutsu-like chakra, its physical composition, the corpse flower-like cannon, it's ability to manifest clones which is uncannily similar to Zetsu's own from an organic standpoint. Plus why didn't Obito use any of the seals necessary to activate the technique? Darksusanoo (talk) 20:56, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Dan.Faulkner, so? Why should it look different, it's the same entity. There's no need to be searching for connections between Wood Release and the Ten-Tails besides what I suggested. @Darksusanoo, shouldn't a Suiton user in theory be capable of using Suigetsu's body for a technique? That's what I suggest happened with cutting technique. Also hand seals aren't necessary to use a technique, there are many instances of character executing one in an instant. They are just used to better manipulate chakra, figure Obito improved with it over 20 years later--Elveonora (talk) 20:59, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Has it ever been shown that a Suiton user used Suigetsu's water body, @Elve? No. It was the beast that used the technique, with Obito merely commanding it...it's more logical than this theory most people seemed to accepted...plus we know the tailed beasts can perform Nature Transformation techniques and that at least one KKG-based elemental technique originated from a tailed beast, soo it's very well within the realm of possibility...Darksusanoo (talk) 21:13, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * That was just an example. My point being is that Ten-Tails' body is plantish so Obito used a Mokuton through it just like it can be done from land. And it's been nowhere stated that Son Gokuu is the origin of Lava Release. There's isn't any non-speculative reason for why the Ten-Tails should have Mokuton, since it's supposedly a Senju Clan kekkei genkai. Unless it isn't and Hashirama fled to the moon and stole it from the beast, or Obito/Madara implanted Hashirma's cells on the Ten-Tails--Elveonora (talk) 22:58, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or simpler...as the Uchiha inherited their dojutsu from the Sage, who was the beasts jinchuriki, maybe some of the Senju inherited the Wood Release. Given how Son Goku is pretty much the oldest confirmed user of the Lava Release. Remember...the fulcrum of it all was always the Sage and the Ten-Tails. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:19, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Good point about Son Goku being ancient... but still, unless it's not stated in canon that Rinnegan, Sharingan, Wood Release and Lava Release originate from the Ten-Tails and Tailed Beasts, it's fanon--Elveonora (talk) 23:22, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hum...i'm sure you're aware of how a KKG works right? It's tied to an individual's blood/DNA/cells...so in order for others to gain it, they have to either blood related, or having undergone genetic splicing which was the case with Hashirama and his Wood Release. Since Son Goku is a Tailed Beast and older than any other Lava Release user in the show it kinda speaks for itself. Plus, how can you say it's fanon, if we saw the thing do a Wood Release technique...which is a KKG...so regardless of Obito's imput, it had to have KKG in order to use a Wood Release technique since it's tied to the users cells/DNA...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:39, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * You ignore what I say. There are many explanations, one more likely than the other. He could have used its body just like earth can be used to form a Mokuton technique. Or Obito/Madara applied Hashirama's cells to the beast. Even though your Son Goku Lava Release argument is thought-worthy, I've got a quite good counter-argument for that. Since you say the ape is the origin of one advanced nature: Lava Release, so it's reasonable to assume that Ice, Storm, Boil, Explosion, Scorch and Magnet do also originate from the other eight Tailed Beasts. Well, the issue is none of them has been observed using any, so nice try. It's quite possible that Son Goku's Lava Release and unknown first human user's one have different origins. After all, an x advanced nature kekkei genkai is just a gene allowing to merge specific natures to create a new one. The likelihood the same mutation occurred in Son Goku as in humans is there--Elveonora (talk) 23:49, June 22, 2013 (UTC)´
 * I do not ignore what you say, but both your arguments are flawed. First, there's a major difference between manipulating elements and a living being's cells to produce an effect. Even if by some stretch of mind Obito/Madara managed to infuse something as massive as the Ten-Tails with Hashirama's cells and get it to use it with such effectiveness, given the KKG renowned difficulty in its use in a few hours, it still gives me reason, since by infusing it with the cells, it gained the ability to use Wood Release. A KKG isn't something you can put and pull off so easily unless it's tied to a specific body part like the Sharingan or Danzo's version of the Wood Release. Second...so because the other tailed beasts, who have radically different abilities between themselves, didn't demonstrate other KKG, Son Goku can't either? On the contrary it stands to reason that at least one Nature Transformation KKG came from a Tailed Beast. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:13, June 23, 2013 (UTC)