User talk:Omnibender/Elemental recomposition table

Ideas, although incomplete.
I also personally think there should be a Swamp Release somewhere, maybe in place of Mercury. I also had a short discussion with ShounenSuki about Pain's Deva Path powers on his wall, and it is a viable theory that the Deva Path's abilities may be "Heaven Release," as we have seen Explosion and Magnetism have their revelations too. --GoDai (talk) 09:21, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fire + Lightning + Water = I'm thinking of some kind of superconductive liquid, but nothing comes straight into my mind. Maybe something that corrodes and channels electricity. Also, if you've noticed, Fire-Lightning-Water/Ice is a very popular trinity in popular culture.
 * Wind + Earth + Yin = Pressure/Weight. It wouldn't be exactly the same as Nagato's abilities, since those revolve around himself. This nature would somehow add weight into things. The wind nature would allow the chakra to phase into the target.
 * Wind + Earth + Yang = Weathering. The earthen dust would act on solid materials, powered by Yang. Fills in for the previous dust ideas, although Water also is related to weathering.
 * Wind + Water + Yin = An advanced Ice, "冷" or "凍"; Cold or freezing. All three elements fit, even Yin with its cold theme.
 * Wind + Water + Yang = I personally think "wave" goes here, and Water+Yang should be something else. I keep imagining ripples across a pond for this triple combination, although you do already have pulse.
 * Lightning + Earth + Yin = Shatter (or something similar). Like how Lightning creates fissures in Earth, but using Yin to manipulate that form and applying it to other targets to shatter them instantly.
 * Lightning + Earth + Yang = Quake. "震" means "thunder," and "地震" means earthquake. The Yang would provide the force. It also forms a duality with Shatter. I'm thinking something similar to the Gura Gura no Mi in One Piece.
 * Lightning + Water + Yin = Something to do with electrolysis, obvious with the first two elements, and along with Yin to control the form of the dividing process. However, I have no idea how to express "電解" in one kanji. Th division into hydrogen and oxygen gases could be used for a wide variety of other things.
 * Lightning + Water + Yang = Something to do with the relationship between Water and Light. Storm also had a light-like appearance. Related to reflection and/or refraction. Refraction Release? Haven't looked into the kanji yet. Might end up not fitting.
 * Bump~ Any thoughts? --GoDai (talk) 00:45, August 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Fire/Lightning/Water is one of the toughest combinations to crack. The one thing I managed to think that had a viable connection to these three is something that is something that is very shaky, which is some sort of holiness. In different religions, you see Holy Fire, Holy Water, and in some, lightning is considered holy as well.
 * I once considered Pressure for something involving Wind Release. Maybe density?
 * Considering Yang in Wind/Earth/Yang, I'd think something that is either very strong or else related to some sort of creation, since Yang has to do with life-giving and all that.
 * I'm beginning to consider putting something like Fluid or Flow for Water/Wind/Yin, which is something I always left benched. I can't think of anything else that fits well enough. Wind would act in that "letting something enter something else" way on Yin, which would work with water to make things melt. Kinda like turning stuff into liquid, but not through heating, just making it melt.
 * I see why you would associate wind with waves. No idea on this one though.
 * Shattering is an idea, but I think it might be too close to Crystal Release, which was also used that way. Crystallise something and then shatter it.
 * I seriously have no idea on what to do with Lightning/Earth/Yang. I see where you come from with Quake (powerful vibration in the earth), but it feels too close with Earth for me.
 * If only hydrogen had good kanji for this situation, this would totally fit. Hydrogen is a charged particle made from liquid.
 * I think something with reflection is kinda covered with Mirror Release already.

The thing about a Heaven Release is that it would mean the Rinnegan allows the use of another kekkei genkai, or in another case a kekkei tōta, which I don't really see happening. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:10, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Fire+Lightning+Water=Purification. I was thinking about what you said about holiness, and I thought about what those holy objects are often used for. Izanagi washed his face with sacred water after he came out of Yomi, and fire often has something to do with removing impurities, and along with lightning, it is associated with refining. Also, dōjutsu are also by-products of kekkei genkai, and Blaze Release apparently came out of Sasuke's eyes, so I wouldn't be that concerned with Heaven, although not entirely favorable, or even likely. --GoDai (talk) 03:38, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Concerning Mercury
When I made that suggestion I never really meant you create the metal mercury. The user can manipulate any solid(Earth) object and liquefy it(Water) and manipulate(Yin) that liquefied object for whatever purposes. Another thing, that same combo can be Poison release. Earth is diluted in Water in which the solution is transformed(Yin) into Poison.As for the earth wind yin/yang, I am currently thinking of something involving free radicals in particular free radical oxygen, when I come up with something I will post.Umishiru (talk) 01:43, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't remember you suggesting me to create a mercury nature. Ever since I began the three-element combination table, I fine-combed every conversation regarding opinions, and I don't recall mercury coming up. A quick text search doesn't show any mention of mercury in the wiki I don't know of already. I don't think I'll list a poison nature for reasons in a section above this one. Besides, mercury can act as a poison already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:36, July 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Omnibender/Elemental_recomposition_table/Archive_4#Concerning_Gaara I also gave you the current combo for metal but I don't care about that.Umishiru (talk) 05:32, July 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bump.Umishiru (talk) 00:14, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Trust me, I know about free oxygen radicals. I had a subject in college two semesters ago, almost half of it involved free oxygen radicals in one way or another. The most immediate thing that comes to mind when thinking about free radicals have either something to do with metabolism or with decay in general, which you supplied me with Rust Release already. For natures involving wind chakra, I'm trying to think stuff in which wind would carry the other effects into something else, kinda like what I think happens in Scorch Release (wind takes fire into something, heating it up) or what might happen if Magnet Release turns out to be wind and lightning (wind carrying the electric effect without the electricity). The part about a poison nature, I already gave arguments to someone else about four sections above. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:52, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * LOL, thats not what I posted a reply for, I understand your reasons for not having those natures, I was bumping for the link I posted concerning Mercury.Umishiru (talk) 14:08, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I see where you come from for a poison nature, but for reasons I used in four or five sections above, I don't think poison is a nature I'll be adding any time soon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:24, August 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Poison nature? No no I am posting concerning this: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Omnibender/Elemental_recomposition_table/Archive_4#Concerning_GaaraUmishiru (talk) 01:25, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * About Mercury there? What you suggested there was combinations between advanced natures, and a combination that I ended up using for Mirror Release. I'm considering the "making stuff into liquid effect" for a currently vacant combination. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:43, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Confusion
What is the difference between Freezing Release and Frost Release? Also, what kind of properties could Forest and Eruption Release have compared to their weaker counterparts? --私は何ができますか？ どうすればいいでしょうか？殺す. 14:13, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * They're pretty much similar things with different names really. All the "stronger counterparts" are basically what Blaze is to Fire. More powerful. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 3
Wind + Earth + Yang = Animate/Vital/Spirit Release. Breath(Wind) of Life(Yang) that is manipulated into solid form(Earth). Objects that aren't alive or manipulated through other elements gain of life or their own like what Chiyo tried to do for the puppets. Or a Soul(Wind, Yang) is created which can enter solid(Earth) forms and do whatever or what the user commands.

Wind + Earth + Yin = Malfunction/Break/Glitch/Flaw release. Sand is known to have caused malfunction in the circuitry of the technology it enters. Example WW2 North Africa campaign where it is said sandstorms stops battles because of general blindness and malfunction of tech from sand getting in. Basically Sand(Earth, Wind) + energy sucking quality (Yin) or instead of that a form of energy that causes things to malfunction. Sand(Wind, Earth) that is transformed into a light brownish to white/black energy that causes objects to malfunction. Another way of saying it a form of energy that flows(Wind) into a object and solidifies(Earth) and causes it to malfunction either through sucking energy or reversing the process of how a object functions(Yin).Umishiru (talk) 20:23, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

If I didn't have Soul Release for Wind/Yin/Yang, that would have been a terrific idea. The crumble idea I might use, I just need to see if it's different enough from Implosion, though I think it'll be. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:25, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

I am not thinking of crumble but more of the target not working correctly or at all or backfiring. Something like that.Umishiru (talk) 19:07, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

It's an idea, though I think that like Aurora, it's something I'll have to find a fitting proxy, something that sounds more like an element. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:44, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

More on Natures
Well I like what you did with Dawn, and I think Kishi is eventually going to have to do what he did with Boil and Storm; Their names don't really sound like new natures, but their effects definitely say otherwise. Wind+Water+Yang could be "Typhoon" but have a completely different effect.--GoDai (talk) 08:03, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fire + Lightning + Water = The three have purifying/refining qualities, which I think is a good discovery.
 * Wind + Earth + Yin = Density is a good idea, since Wind is related to pressure and Earth has been mentioned to manipulate the density of earth also. Yin has an inward motion feel, as well as the form manipulation aspect.
 * Wind + Water + Yin = I think fluidifying things would be fitting. Yin would be used instead of Fire (Heat) to change things into liquids and/or gases.
 * Lightning + Earth + Yin = Battery? Leyden jar? Yin represents gentle, calm, still, silent, motionlessness. So I think it could be some form of lightning stored within an earthen medium, used to power other things. Just another idea.
 * Lightning + Earth + Yang = Shockwave (衝擊波)? A shock wave carries energy and can propagate through a medium or through a field such as the electromagnetic field in some cases. Although this sounds a bit related to wind. I find that shockwave could be placed in several different spots.
 * Lightning + Water + Yin = ...Hydrogen... only if you could do something like what you did with Aurora/Dawn.
 * Lightning + Water + Yang = Refraction then? Or maybe Glass do that as well.

Idea pt. 4
Water + Lightning + Yang = Melt/Solvent Release. The idea is that lightnings ability to vibrate/oscillate is passed on to water increasing water's natural ability to break down substances aka universal solvent. This vibration is enhanced through Yang. Basically allowing the user to liquefy objects and manipulate them for various purposes.Umishiru (talk) 19:13, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * You suggested that effect to me before, it's in the fourth archive. I'm considering that result, through a different mechanic, for a Wind/Water/Yin combination: the wind would have the "carry the effect into something else" thing, yin would change the form of something to that of a liquid, making stuff melt. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:44, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas, although incomplete.
Fire+Lightning + Water = I think that can be Bite (かむ, Kamu) creating a Bite Release(む遁, Muton) Wind + Earth + Yin = Like you say that can be Pressure (高圧, Kōatsu) creating a Pressure Release (圧遁, Aton) Wind + Earth + Yang = Weathering: I get not idea...

Ideas Pt.5
Wind + Earth + Yang = Salt Release. The idea is that since in Naruto Earth trumps Water through most likely by soaking it up, this aspect is enhanced by Yang. The idea is a physical version of Scorch release in terms of effect as Salt is needed in the body to regulate water levels and also the opposite of Scorch by taking out salt of the body causing the opposite of dehydration known as Water Intoxication: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication where basically the body drowns from its own water reserves. Basically a element slowing the user to manipulate the Fluid balance of a object or person: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_balance besides what other properties salt has. Now you have three idea sections to read(I posted a response on section idea pt.3)oops. Umishiru (talk) 21:31, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Or for Wind + Earth + Yang = Sugar release. Earth(Earth lol) particles(Wind) are transformed into a substance that gives energy(Yang) when in the body. We know that sugar grants to temp boost in energy levels.Umishiru (talk) 21:36, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * The only problem with Salt is "Brine" is written with the kanji for "Salt" and "Water," and the kanji being used for Brine Release is salt. Therefore, it also counts as a Salt Release, unless a better kanji is found. --GoDai (talk) 23:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand but I would prefer if Omni would give his opinion.Umishiru (talk) 00:56, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

What about for kanji: http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/graphics/r_tsuchihen.jpg for salty taste or table salt. Look I am not a expert or a know how in any foreign language at all, that is why I don't try to enter such discussions, I would prefer if you would lay such issues to a japanese language expert like ShounenSuki.Umishiru (talk) 01:02, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

What GoDai said is correct about brine, I've told you that myself once already, it's in the Ideas Pt.2 topic, which is now in archive 5. That kanji is basically the kanji for earth when used as a radical in other kanji. The kanji for salt, used in Brine Release has it, as well as the one for Land Release. Sugar is an idea, but I think that it may depart too much from the effects of the other two, kinda like ShounenSuki's Chaos Release idea for Fire/Water/Lightning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:44, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

How about this for Sugar Release. Wind is generally seen a free unhindered energetic force in nature. This energy is passed on to Earth and enhanced by Yang.Umishiru (talk) 00:42, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Water/Lightning/Yang, and others
I was thinking about something like refraction, and manipulating wavelengths of light. I tried to simplify that into one kanji with a traditional, symbolic representation, and I came up with Rainbow (虹; Niji). Not sure if it's the perfect fit, but it's an idea. --GoDai (talk) 07:57, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Also, in the Greek elements, there are those four qualities that distinguish the elements, and the kanji commonly used to describe these are: hot (溫; warm), dry (乾; dry), cold (冷; cool), and wet (濕; damp). I thought some of these could be used; Wind/Earth/Yin could be a Dryness Release, the ability dry any object instantly, and maybe turn living things like trees into dry powder. --GoDai (talk) 08:22, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I like the dry idea, I found, which I saw can also be translated as "arid". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:28, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Oh that sounds fitting. Oh and by the way, "乾" does mean "Heaven" sometimes (As in the Eight Trigrams use). However, I'm pretty sure it means "dry" in most (modern) cases, and I don't really know any other kanji that mean anything along the lines of "dry." --GoDai (talk) 08:15, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

The one thing that puts a chink in this idea is that Yang is the principle associated with dryness, Yin is associated with dampness. I'll probably use it anyway. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:57, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Oh that's interesting. It could pose a minor problem, but I wouldn't be too worried since traditionally, Yang is associated with the mind while Yin to the body. Kishimoto seems to have his own plans for Yin and Yang, and while it would be nice if the natures showed alignment with the traditions, I wouldn't be too worried if they didn't match up. --GoDai (talk) 07:46, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Brine, Salt, and Bases and Alkali
I was thinking that if there's Boil Release which controls acid, a nature with the effects of utilizing bases or alkali could be a theory, but I ran into a problem. "Basic" is "塩基性" which has the kanji for "Salt" in it, meaning it conflicts with Brine. Now I'm kinda agreeing with Umishuru in thinking "塩遁" should be something about salt, bases or alkali. I personally don't see the strong connection with Yin to Brine, since although I do understand the form-changing part, the manipulation of the concentration of a particular solute in water doesn't seem to be Yin's thing.

Or as an alternative, we could work on a metaphorical name for a base-controlling release, since Boil is metaphorical too. --GoDai (talk) 21:50, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Problem with basic water is that the Mizukage was shown to be able to manipulate ph levels, if she can lower the acid levels of boil release then perhaps she can lower enough past then neutral level into base levels.Umishiru (talk) 11:27, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm that is actually critically correct, although I'm not an extreme expert on the topic. I was thinking acids and alkali would be differentiated by the donation or acceptance of protons, or that they either have H+ ions or OH- ions. --GoDai (talk) 08:58, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Density?
I'm thinking Earth+Wind+Yang would be something like density, or some really dense, strong material. It's a shame there's not kanji for diamond, although there's the kanji for Vajra, 金剛, which is basically the Buddhist counterpart of adamant. I'm also thinking maybe density could be Earth+Wind+Yin and dry/arid could be Earth+Wind+Yang (that way it also lines up witht he traditional views on Yin and Yang). --GoDai (talk) 09:24, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * The issue I see with density is that it resembles earth's characteristic to change composition too much. And despite lining up with the traditional view in Yin and Yang, there's nothing to tie dry with life-giving of Yang Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:26, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh well I thought the Yang would be part of the "strength" thing but I guess you're right; Earth Release can manipulate the density. And I guess a "hardening" nature wouldn't work either since we've seen Earth Release: Aggravated Rock Technique. --GoDai (talk) 20:36, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Shock Wave
On Wikipedia the definition for a shock wave is "a type of propagating disturbance that carries energy and can propagate through a medium (solid, liquid, gas or plasma) or in some cases in the absence of a material medium, through a field such as the electromagnetic field", which I think could be a fitting result of Earth/Lightning/Yang. --GoDai (talk) 04:22, September 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's kinda like Pulse Release already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:20, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 6
Lightning + Earth + Yang = Holy/Sacred release.Basically holy/sacred stone. The idea is the pulling from Purification release. Lightning's purify powers are passed into earth and enhanced by yang making it a solid form of purification release.

Another idea is earth's hardness is passes on to Lightning producing a yellow crystal like stone, the energy in the stone is enhanced by yang giving it a bright glow and it retains Lightning's speed making it much faster than earth release. Earth with the speed of lightning/ Lightning with the hardness/form of earth. Hardness and density of earth, speed and destructive power of lightning, and these aspects enhanced by yang.

Lightning + Water + Yin = Corrupt Release. Water and Lightning combine their purifying qualities which is reversed into a corrupting nature by Yin.It follows the similar style in video games where certain items are cursed like in Dragon Quest/Warriors or Golden Sun.Umishiru (talk) 00:16, September 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Not sure about those. The corrupt idea in particular doesn't make much sense when you consider what Purification Release actually does. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:50, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well the idea of corrupt release was similar to my break/malfunction release. Basically it causes a object to stop working by making one of its parts or systems malfunction, almost like a backfire release. Since purification stops a aspect by removing, corrupt release would stop it by leaving the aspect there but in a non working form. Think for it like this, taking candy away from the bag or having the candy melt; taking away a tire or the tire bursting while on the vehicle. Also don't forget that water and lightning are both seen as things that causes things to malfunction or not work. Water by short circuiting and rusting or whatever, and lightning by short circuiting, causing power breakers to go off, or over load the system with too much energy. Yin release would bring about this by reversing their purification aspects into a malfunction/break down/overloading nature.Umishiru (talk) 01:47, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Earth/Wind/Yang
I personally see some rocks being destroyed. Either weathering, smashing, or maybe even smashing into powder. Symbolically, the wind, representing force, with added force from Yang would act on earthen objects, smashing (?) them, in a unique way we haven't seen before, of course. This may sound too similar to shattering, but breaking something apart seems to be what keeps coming to me with this combination. Compared to dry, which damages things from the inside by dehydrating them, this force would damage them externally. --GoDai (talk) 01:04, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt.7
Water + Lightning + Yang = Froth/Dissolve/Solvent release. The idea is that since water breaks down a great number of objects it has the name of universal solvent.Lightning's ability to oscillate/vibrate is passed on to Water which increases its ability to breakdown objects further which is enhanced by yang. Basically a fluid the reduces objects into a frothy like substance.

Another combo is Water + Wind + Lightning = Froth/Dissolve/Solvent release. As said before Water gains Lightning's oscillation properties which reduces a target down into a slushy mass which is then churned up into a frothy substance by Wind.

I know you put Sky Release as that combo but its the only elemental nature on the table that really doesn't sit with me, flight is covered by the manga by Onoki and is probably a product of Wind or Dust release and Cloud covers everything else.Umishiru (talk) 07:10, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Froth sounds a bit like the Fluid Release idea. I never though of Sky Release as something which allows one to fly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:50, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Personal Revisions and Questions.

 * So Glass Release cannot produce mirrors? Or does Mirror Release have some unique abilities?
 * I like Fire+Lightning=Explosion now, since symbolically it's like fire that happens in an instant, like lightning.
 * You seem to be not using Steel, but you still use Dark and Swift?
 * I'm still not sure about Brine. To me, the kanji says something to do with salt, bases and alkali, and/or solutions, etc. Like a counter or compliment to Boil.
 * Earth+Lightning+Yin/Yang could be something to do with grounding. I also like quake or shockwave for the Yang choice but I guess that's too Earth-ish?
 * Amber Release? Amber was called "electron" in Greek, and I think first research with static electricity was done with amber and glass. All words that have the word root "electr-" would be derived from the Greek word for amber. I know it's vague, but remember it could be just symbolic, and the actual substance created could be like, a solid lightning.
 * Water+Lightning+Yin=Eletrolysis. Although there is no general way to put it as one kanji, you could go "解遁" (Kaiton), basically Separation Release, since electrolysis would separate materials.
 * Water+Lightning+Yang=Rainbow. Symbollically, after a storm, a rainbow is seen. I think this nature would manipulate different wavelengts of light, like a Spectrum Release. The water would be the medium for the light produced by the lightning. The "light" thing fits in with the Yang.
 * Water+Wind+Yang=Cold/Freezing. Water and wind fly into your face with so much force that it instantly freezes you. A cold wave ("寒波") would be produced. And we haven't seen Ice Release freezing anything, so why not. It would be the opposite of Fluid Release because instead of fluidising, it would solidify.

I would really appreciate if you read all that, if you find it too large of a list, please ignore it until you have enough time on your hands. Thanks! --GoDai (talk) 04:47, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

In order:
 * Glass Release and Mirror Release do seem similar, but I don't see them doing the same things, not exactly. I see Glass Release as sharp shards or sharp powdered glass, or even well disguised barriers. I may even see them as taking shape of other things as decoys, like sculptures. Since glass is sharp and transparent, the simplest way I see it working is as solid Wind Release. For Mirror, I see it as the quality of reflection being the main thing, such as reflecting attacks or tricking the opponent, a la "smoke and mirrors".
 * From the moment we got Explosion Release, that was the most logic combination to me, I just didn't change it immediately out of vanity, hoping that somehow Light Release was still a possible combination. When Magnet Release was confirmed, I had to move stuff around, so Magnet went from Lightning/Yang to Lightning/Earth, Explosion went from Lightning/Earth to Lightning/Fire, and Light went from Lightning/Fire to Lightning/Yang. That change even sat well with Dark being Lightning/Yin.
 * I could have used Steel instead of Metal for Fire/Lightning/Earth, but that would make it a kekkei tōta instead of kekkei genkai, which would go against something that is higher in the canon hierarchy than my speculations.
 * I think your issue with Brine is more about the kanji with the nature itself. I can't use the other kanji because it would be the same as Water Release. The one nature which uses more than one kanji radical is Yin-Yang.
 * I get the quake idea, and I also think it's too earth-ish. It's kinda like Pulse Release inside a medium for me.
 * Amber does have a history with electricity, though not a particularly strong one. I think you might be onto something with amber. I'll look into organic gemstones.
 * I thought of electrolysis before, but I think the idea of separating things is already covered by Purification Release.
 * The idea of rainbow makes sense, my concern about it is that it might be too close of Dawn, which has some lights already, and Light Release itself.
 * A bit too close to Ice Release for me. I don't doubt that Ice Release can be used to freeze things. This is a difficult combination. I tried thinking of detergents and whirlpools, but nothing seems to quite fit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:00, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

I won't reply to the ones that have already been answered, thanks for answering all of them.
 * I was just thinking that since you removed Steel, you might not use Dark and Swift either. Well I guess Steel could replace Earth+Yang, with strong metallic bonds and such being opposed to the neat ionic bonds in Crystal.
 * On things involving Water and Lightning, I looked around on things involved with electrolysis, and things involved with thunderstorms. I did find the other forms of lightning like elves, sprites, and blue jets, but I have no idea how to say any of them as kanji at the moment. I do know the kanji for "glow" (灯), which could be useful with the symbolism. --GoDai (talk) 07:28, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 8
Water + Lightning + Yang = Void release. Since both water and lightning pull objects apart through being a solvent(Water) and vibration/oscillation(Lightning) these forces are merged. Yang enhances this force to the point that it creates a area where there is no mass/space or structure left creating a void or literal space(outer space the area outside of atmospheres).

Water + Lightning + Yin = Structure/Build/Absorb release. Instead of pulling objects apart Yin reverses this, creating structures of energy the pull objects towards then building them up further. Another way of seeing this is that that the objects are broken up and Yin reverses this turning them into a substance/energy the builds up or increases the energy that absorbed them.

Earth + Lightning + Yang = Sharp release. Lighting oscilliation is passed on to earth that is then enhanced by Yang. This produces a substance that turns any thing into a sharp object. For example, a wood ball hit by Sharp release would be able to cut one all of its sides like a round blade and so on.Umishiru (talk) 01:09, September 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hm I always like your creative ideas, but why is it that the Yin component in your ideas always "reverses" things? Hope you're not offended or anything, just wanted to know your reasoning :) --GoDai (talk) 07:31, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

In my personal view, I see yin as a cold force; opposing, and filling what is missing which sometimes means changing the structure of something in ways not characteristic, thus creativity.I really can't explain it but that is the best I can come up with.Umishiru (talk) 05:26, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Breakthrough on Water+Wind+Yang?
I believe I've discovered something interesting, something comparable to the formulation of Purification. The kanji 消, is generally used to mean "to vanish; to die out". In Cardcaptors, there was a card with this kanji, "The Erase", which had the power to erase things from existence. In a more general sense, it means "to disappear; to erase; to wash away", while it can also mean "to melt away; to be extinguished; to cut power from". Normally it would've just passed by me, but I went back and saw that you said something about detergent. I also realized the "extinguish" meaning of this kanji is extremely significant, since while the term 消火 means to extinguish a flame, the word for fire fighting is "消防", entirely dropping the fire kanji, retaining the meaning without it. We saw water and wind techniques combine separately to form a vortex of water vapor to stop Kakuzu's extremely powerful wind-enhanced fire technique, and I'm thinking this could be the basis for the symbolism. Water+Wind+Yang=Erase/Extinguish. While I'm unsure of the effects this nature would have, I feel there are very few that could take this place also. Perhaps it will instantly dissolve and vaporize targets, making it seem as if they vanished into thin air? Used on humans, it would literally "extinguish life".
 * A similar kanji, 滅, can mean "to exterminate; to destroy, to collapse, to perish, or to disappear". The buildup of the kanji signifies that it once also meant "to extinguish" (Like in Chinese), since it's a combined form of the water radical and a kanji meaning to destroy ("to destroy using water", as in a flood, or extinguish). What's most interesting is that when you combine the kanji and create the word 消滅, it means "to wipe out; to die out". It signifies that in this case, the fire represented life, while water was what brought an end to it. --GoDai (talk) 02:44, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * I definitely see the connection with water and with with the "wash away/blow out" idea. The life part/Yang part of it is what may require a bit of tweaking. In Naruto, Yang Release is associated with breathing life into things. Since this is about removing something it kinda goes against that, but then again, the Dry Release idea uses Yin Release, and in reality, Yin is associated with dampness, but I managed to work that out, I just need to do something similar here. Looking at the table ShounenSuki gave me for traits associated with Yin and Yang (see archive 5). Maybe instead the Yang aspect should be seen as what the nature should affect, as in recognising what is alive/active and end it? In dark/light, Yang is associated with dark, but regarding light intensity, it is associated with bright light. It is also associated with inhalation in respiration, and with reduction in acupuncture. Maybe that could be interpreted as dilution of chakra/energy/whatever? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, September 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hm yeah maybe. There's so many ways to interpret this kanji that as long as there's a way to relate it to the three elements, it should be fine, I think. Another possibility is this: Because Kishi has said Yin and Yang were form and life, I think adding to much Yang for the Yin to balance out could cause form to collapse, and the mass and matter inside to lose form and manifestation, as if they were flushed out of existence (Although the overall result would be that they were actually converted into a raw energy of some sort maybe?). --GoDai (talk) 04:47, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 9
Taking from what Godai said:

Wash/Clean Release = Wind + Water + Yang. Water molecules are charged therefore are able to pull many objects apart, thus universal solvent. Wind can cut by applying pressure. Both of these forces are combined. These forces are enhanced by Yang increasing the mixture's reducing properties, creating a substance that "washes/cleans" a target. You can think of it like a washing machine, Water is applied to pull the dirt, the spinning motion(can be simulated through Wind) further weakens the dirts hold on a object in this case an objects/bonds, Yang the enhancer acts as a soap finally breaks the bonds/object apart into whatever, thus washing it.

Also, after watching the latest chapter, perhaps the Second Mizukage creates his Oil by fusing Water + Yin.Umishiru (talk) 02:42, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty much sold on the effect GoDai suggested, with wind/water erasing the form by overloading with Yang, creating an imbalance, though I'm still trying to see which is the best translation to convey that effect while retaining some connection with wind and water. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I was only trying to help him. I thought you weren't sold on his idea so I tried to boost his idea up.Umishiru (talk) 04:53, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

Gravity Release = Earth + Lightning + Yang
I came up with an idea for a Gravity nature (重力, jūryoku) yielding a possible Gravity Release (重遁, jūton). It's supposed to be a combination of the Earth, Lightning and Yang natures. Earth is part of the combination because a large amount of it (planets and dwarf planets) creates so much weight that it starts to attract smaller rocks and debris in its range (may result in moons or planetary rings). Lightning is part of the combination because it yields the type of power essential to energize the earth generating gravitation as a fundamental force of interaction itself. Yang is part of the combination because it can constantly provide the power needed for reinforcement of the gravitation or to put gravitational force into different objects causing them to attract their surroundings depending on how much gravity they hold. Pain's Shinra Tensei, Banshō Ten'in and Chibaku Tensei could also be techniques derived from Gravity Release since they are based on the physical laws of repulsion and attraction. DarkblueFlow (talk) 23:23, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * I specifically avoid trying to create new natures based on techniques that aren't likely to be from a nature. It would create way too many inconsistencies, regarding what the Rinnegan allows one to do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then let's just say that Pain's techniques happened to have a similarity with Gravity Release. Well, I really really wish Gravity is added to the table. DarkblueFlow (talk) 20:54, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm probably very late to bring that last argument up, but if I recall correctly the Rinnegan yields the power of the six paths, each having a special ability. Tendō's path allows to attract or repulse objects, without manipulating gravity itself while Gravity Release would allow one to do that. If Tendō had the ability to control all gravity he could have just amplified gravity at the place where Naruto stood and if increased to a certain level, the pressure would have crushed Naruto (:D). Just wanted to say that hoping you change your mind. ^_^ DarkblueFlow (talk) 18:35, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 10
Earth + Lightning + Yin = Agent/Auto/Control Release. Following similar to your mind release, this is more of a zombie element for the living. Lightning passes its ability to travel the nerves to Earth which in combination with Yin's form changing transforms a target in a zombie like creature under ones control.Sort of like the puppet jutsu but with ones mind and with a ugly looking result.

I got the idea from this:

Another idea for Earth + Lightning + Yin = Inertia/Slow Release. Yin is seen as slow looking at the table ShounenSuki posted: and this: |. Earth has been seen as seeking to draw all things together with itself:. This allows Yin's slow quality to be passed into Earth. Lightning is seen as a symbol of power and by Kishi as speed. Yin is also seen as reverse and scattering on Shounen's table which allows yin to reverse Lightnings speed into a slow force. The idea is a substance or energy that causes object to slow and decelerate and maybe even stop.

It also explains why Water + Earth = Wood. Earth in many cultures is seen as nurturing(Thus various earth goddesses) and has been associated with fertility by many cultures for many thousands of years.Umishiru (talk) 03:53, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Something relating to motion? Maybe acceleration? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's probably very late to put that up, but I would say if Kishimoto ever officially introduces Swift Release as a combination of two elements, he would give it the ability to change the velocity of things (accelerating and decelerating objects by nullifying their kinetic energy). DarkblueFlow (talk) 18:28, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps it could also deal with acceleration.I guess it isn't that hard for you tweak tweak it to deal with acceleration as well or do you need me to post something up to include it?Umishiru (talk) 02:42, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Idea Pt.11
Earth + Lightning + Yang = Judgment/Heaven release. Lightning is seen as a punishment or anger of god. Its the symbol of power and in many cases deities who wield it are high ranking. Yang also represents heaven on Shoun's table. Earth in both Japanese and Chinese view of elements is seen as stubborn, responsible, and values harmony and stability and also resistant to change in which the law is at times.Umishiru (talk) 03:36, October 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I get how each individual element is related to the idea, but it doesn't feel like an element to me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Resurrection of Miasma Release
Miasma (瘴気, Shōki) and Miasma Release (瘴遁, Shōton): Earth, Wind and Yang. I'd like to resurrect the idea of Miasma Release with it being something similar to poison gas. Earth because its capability of polluting things (dust particles), thus fitting perfectly for miasma. Wind because Miasma Release is thought of poison gas, where wind (or better said air) is needed for it to be gas. Yang because according to ShounenSuki's Yin-Yang table (Archive 5) its inclination is expansion, meaning to spread the miasma. DarkblueFlow (talk) 22:21, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know, that's a very clever way to reincorporate Miasma as a triple combination. I can also see the Yang acting as "giving life" to the stuff in earth, as in the things which cause disease. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:21, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

I like this idea too. I always had the idea of something like a viral or disease-causing chakra, one that would infect the enemy's cells, and reproduce itself, so that even one drop of this infectious chakra could kill the target within minutes, by multiplying exponentially. By giving chakra an infectious nature, the chakra could be described as a miasma, as if each particle had been converted into a tiny pathogen. Earth is also traditionally related to dirt, and impurities, things that must be cleaned away. Miasma itself is described as "bad air", which would be the germ-like chakra. As you said, Yang would be responsible for the microorganisms that compose this chakra (or even the DNA inside viruses, since they are believed to be the origins of life on Earth by many). We've seen poisonous gas, but never have we seen a chakra that spreads disease. Sounds fascinating. The only possible obstacle here is that you should make sure it's clearly different from Bacteria Release. --24.82.143.38 (talk) 08:45, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * The difference between Miasma and Bacteria... Well, I would have to know how Bacteria Release works and what it entails in order to create a difference. But first, Miasma Release works with a large amount of viruses compressed into a poisonous gas while Bacteria Release is based on emission of bacteria in some way (Fluid maybe?), which is something else. DarkblueFlow (talk) 12:04, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bacteria in general need to live on a substrate from which they can extract nutrients, they usually live on the soil and in the water. I don't think that bacteria can simply live in the air. The picture I have of Bacteria Release has it working like throwing that kind of substrate on someone, kinda like throwing bacteria-containing medium, kinda like a mud or water, or even acting on the naturally occurring bacteria in the human body, after all, more than half of one's dry weight is composed of bacteria. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:15, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

I think Bacteria Release would make one's chakra behave like bacteria, manipulating already existing bacteria and acting on enemies on contact. The Miasma Release would involve more airborne pathogens, especially viruses. Since there is no kanji for virus, the kanji for miasma would be a good symbolic way to represent it, like Storm Release. In my mind, this miasma chakra could travel through the air, and one bit of it infecting an enemy could result in the fall of entire armies. --GoDai (talk) 10:12, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

So... is it going to be added or is there still more information needed? DarkblueFlow (talk) 18:21, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just waiting until I had a more clear idea on how it would differ from Bacteria Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:00, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I imagined Miasma Release as extremely poisonous gas that infects the target with deadly viruses that kill it within minutes or even seconds. Since it travels through air, if one bit of it infects one enemy that could result in the fall of entire armies (as GoDai said). I'm sure I would come up with a good idea of a difference but I don't know how you imagine Bacteria Release, what it entails and how exactly it works. DarkblueFlow (talk) 19:16, October 11, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm let's think about it this way. Since a Release is basically when you give your chakra new properties or amplify properties that it already has in order to make it behave like a certain element and also utilise nearby identical elements, if you produce Bacteria using your chakra and control it, what would its major use be. Would it suddenly spread bacteria into targets on contact, rapidly decomposing them? If so, it would be different from a viral nature since this "miasma" nature would spread through the air, infect cells, replicate itself, and destroy cells. If not, it wouldn't be much different, and I think the kanji being used for Bacteria means something around "germ" too. --GoDai (talk) 04:34, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, if you want to see what other artists have shown a virus element as, see Cobra on Fairy Tail. Despite being called the Poison Dragon Slayer, the poison he used was actually viruses, and he utilised viruses similar to how Natsu used his Fire Dragon Slayer powers. --GoDai (talk) 04:38, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well... if I would have to imagine how Miasma Release looks when used, it would most likely look the same as Cobra's poisonous gas. Doing no direct damage, but infecting the victim with deadly viruses that weaken it and cause death within minutes or even seconds. If I imagine Bacteria Release, it would be like throwing some dark fluid at the target that consists of like 75% bacteria and 25% water. The bacteria then decompose the victim's body by "eating" the flesh. DarkblueFlow (talk) 19:38, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bacteria aren't necessarily pathogenic. You'd be amazed at how many things bacteria can do. Bacteria are the greatest chemists ever, there are processes in the world that happen only because certain bacteria have the right enzymes to make a reaction happen, even in very bad conditions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:46, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * And that's the difference. Miasma Release releases a poisonous gas full of viruses that travels through the air, infects the enemy and spreads in the area. Miasma Release could also work like Zeref's Death Wave (Fairy Tail) that looks like a blast of black haze travelling towards the intended target and infecting every living thing on its way (but of course not causing instant death). Bacteria Release releases bacteria in form of a fluid (?) that harms the enemy because of the bacteria that cause various negative reactions (?) in the body. Although that's just how I would imagine Bacteria Release. DarkblueFlow (talk) 09:20, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah Omni you're totally right, since there's so many different kinds of bacteria, and there's even those in natural flora. I was just imagining a possible simple offensive use, which resulted in the decomposition kind of thing as the fastest, most direct offensive effect. I wasn't really trying to decide what it would do or anything, I just suggesting that comparing what they would do differently in similar situations could be the best way to draw a clear line between them. I also think if one was able to manipulate all that bacteria they could conduct rapid chemical processes on a cellular level, since every single bacteria could be manipulated to carry out precise reactions. --GoDai (talk) 09:25, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

So... still more information needed? DarkblueFlow (talk) 00:01, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really, just being lazy. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:46, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas for ones involving Water, Earth, and Lightning
For now, I have no idea how these can be expressed as natures, but I would like to set out discussion topics and see what we can get out, since these seem to be the most difficult to make good combinations out of (Kishi clearly had trouble too, seeing what he ended up doing with Storm Release, and he used up the only really clear combination for Earth and Lightning with Magnet).
 * First off, I looked into redox: Reduction(還元), oxidation(酸化), anode(陽極, "positive pole"), cathode(陰極, "negative pole"), electrolyte(電解液, "electrolysis liquid"; 電解質, "electrolysis material"), cell/battery (電池, "lightning pool"). Sadly, none of these kanji seem to be very useable on their own.
 * Something very possible is that Kishi will name the natures in anyway that involves all the component natures, and then simply give them an effect that cannot be described with kanji, such as Lightning+Earth+Yin being some sort of solid, glowing lightning. --GoDai (talk) 02:08, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the answer to our predicament is looking at them symbolically and combines those. I haven't posted anything yet because I am being lazy and in the mist of deciding what Judgement/Heaven release do.


 * Though think about it now, here is something. Water + Lightning + Yin = Error/Fault/Breakdown/Failure/Glitch/Fail/Defect Release. Taking from your erase release idea, Water is seen as a malfunction agent when introduced into mechanical tools and machines do to short circuiting, Lightning as well by overloading a machine with too much power, Yin can upset the Yang/Yin balance. The idea is that rather than "erase" a object, the object can't function or move.Umishiru (talk) 22:10, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do like the symbolism based on short circuiting, since coming up with similarities between natures and utilising them is basically what we did for Purification and Erase natures, as well as many others. The only possible problem I see at the moment is that the basic symbolism really depends on the actual machine or tool that we're dealing with, since there are many variables. While water can account for short-circuiting and rusting, there are also waterproof objects and those that run on water. While some machines would overload with too much electricity, others would just work even faster. But overall, I say it's a pretty good idea we could build on and branch off of, since for me, personally, Water and Lightning are two themes that are generally depicted as machine's enemy. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, "Acid Rain", "Power Down", and "Last/Rust Acid Virus" are cards that are specifically designed to counter machines, and main characters that use machine decks have faced difficulty against those using Water or Thunder based decks including the above-mentioned cards. Overall, I like the common theme you found, but I'm not exactly sure if it would fit that well, mostly since I have no idea what kanji would be used for the effect you described and make good relations to Water and Lightning at the same time. I was also thinking about a Shock or Paralyse nature, but obviously Lightning itself can do those things. --GoDai (talk) 04:26, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Depends on a machine? Water is seen as snuffing out life by drowning and objects move slower in a body of water than air unless specifically made for that environment. lightning circuiting can be played on by that nerves and yin couldn't care less about whether not object is organic or not.Umishiru (talk) 05:50, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, don't get me wrong, I think your idea is really good. I'm just discussing the best way to put its name. What Kishi often tends to do (in my opinion, anyway) is a) name the combined natures in way that involves the components' traditional names (Water+Lightning=Storm), but also b) possibly give the combined natures effects that are decided by the chakra natures' characteristics themselves (Lightning+Water=Flowing Electricity). It's my often my guide to naming things, and it helps me explain things to people who argue that boiling is completely different from acid, since by this personal rule, Boil is merely the symbolic name for this corrosive vapor nature. While your Malfunction-based idea could work really well in part b) with the natures relating to its intended effect, I just wasn't sure if Malfunction was the best way to name it, since other natures like Earth or Fire can cause malfunctions too, by clogging and overheating. And about the machine thing, I was just pointing out the symbolism it could have, not that its effects must target machinery. When I read your idea a while ago, I was thinking of something like this:, disrupting systems of any kind, including humans, machines, and energy fields. It would make sense since water's fluid nature would easily flow into "open" points in a system, and the lightning would dictate the flow of matter and energy within the system, while Yin would be the form manipulation of the system, and as you originally said, something that acts in reverse of the usual. --GoDai (talk) 09:16, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas from Periodic Table?
While I was looking around, I found a Japanese periodic table on the internet and suddenly thought the elements with kanji may help fill the table. I'm not sure if it'll exactly help, but you could take a look at it if you wanted to. A possible combination to Earth and Lightning related ones may be in here somewhere. --GoDai (talk) 05:55, October 14, 2011 (UTC)

There are lots of usable elements but I guess they are only usable when there are triple combinations that work by creating an imbalance by using more of one compound than the other (example: Earth + Earth + Lightning). Chemical releases are a complicated thing and would take time to know how to place the compounds and are unlikely to ever be added be it canon recomposition or Omnibender's table. Metallic recompositions are also unlikely to be ever added since we saw the Iron and Gold Sand techniques (by that I want to remind of possible Copper, Silver, Tin or Lead Sand techniques). But the following list of ideas features just examples of how you could use chemical elements and metals as triple element recompositions.

"Chemical releases" as I call them could be:
 * Boron (硼素, Hōso) and Boron Release (硼遁, Hōton)
 * Nitrogen (窒素, Chisso) and Nitrogen Release (窒遁, Chitton)
 * Fluorine (弗素, Fusso) and Fluorine Release (弗遁, Futton)
 * Silicon (珪素, Keiso) and Silicon Release (珪遁, Keiton)
 * Sulphur (硫黄, Iō) and Sulphur Release (硫遁, Ryūton)
 * Arsenic (砒素, Hiso) and Arsenic Release (砒遁, Hiton)
 * Bromine (臭素, Shūso) and Bromine Release (臭遁, Shūton)
 * Iodine (沃素, Yōso) and Iodine Release (沃遁, Yōton)

"Metallic releases" as I call them could be: ...too bored to list more metals.
 * Iron (鉄, Tetsu/Kurogane) and Iron Release (鉄遁, Tetton)
 * Gold (金/鋆, Kane) and Gold Release (金遁/鋆遁, Kinton/Inton); (鋆: common Chinese character I prefer)
 * Copper (銅, Dō/Akagane) and Copper Release (銅遁, Dōton)
 * Silver (銀, Gin/Shirogane) and Silver Release (銀遁, Ginton)
 * Tin (錫, Suzu) and Tin Release (錫遁, Shakuton)
 * Lead (鉛, Namari) and Lead Release (鉛遁, Enton)
 * Zinc (亜鉛, Aen) and Zinc Release (鋅遁, Shinton); (鋅: common Chinese character I prefer)
 * Platinum (白金, Hakkin) and Platinum Release (鉑遁, Hakuton) (鉑: common Chinese character I prefer)

Since it would take too much time to figure out fitting compounds for each idea I didn't do that. DarkblueFlow (talk) 01:23, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Right, but an "imbalance" isn't exactly necessary, since it's not like we're using all of the chemical elements, I beleive we are prioritizing getting at least one idea for each combination. If we can make a good connection to any of these elements with Lightning, we have good options. For example, we could usemetals that are commonly used as common anodes and/or cathodes and consider them as choices. And while we probably won't see a lot of metallic natures since Magnet Release manipulates metal as a weapon anyway, it's still possible, since Kishi can always come up with a similar thing that has a different purpose. --GoDai (talk) 04:22, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Wind and Lightning
With that combination, what do you think of a disintegrate nature? Both wind and lightning cuts well, and lightning could focus the wind towards one specific point. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 15:36, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm curious on what wind and lightning will turn out to be. I can see Magnet being lightning with either earth or wind. If it turns out to be lightning and earth, which I find more likely, I have no idea what will be used for lightning and wind. The only reason I have Swift Release in there is because it's an idea with a higher canon standing than my own, I try to find a place for those before coming up with my own ideas. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:36, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * One idea I tend to cling to for Wind+Lightning is like, a resonating nature. Since both enhance how well weapons cut when used in chakra flow, it would be like the ultimate cutting chakra flow nature. --GoDai (talk) 23:37, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

Bonding Release?
I liked what Umishuru said about a "build/structure" nature. How about something like a "Bond Release"? The chakra would act as the intermolecular and intramolecular (and maybe even nuclear) bonds that "glue" particles to particles. Earth for the targeted matter, Lightning for the energy, and Yin for the form and the inwards pull. --GoDai (talk) 23:41, October 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kinda like an opposite of Dust Release, which instead of breaking stuff down at molecular level would put them together at molecular level, kinda welding or smelting perhaps? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:10, October 17, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. An opposite of Dust Release, which would turn the "dust" into solid structures. When used on two difference substances, maybe some fusion of properties could happen. --GoDai (talk) 01:15, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't necessarily see this as something turning "dust" into solids. I can see this working kinda by phasing stuff inside other stuff, maybe some active shaping of the stuff being manipulated as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:20, October 17, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm yeah. Maybe something like "merging" or melding. --GoDai (talk) 17:20, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

It is a very good idea. In my opinion, a Structure (構造, Kōzō) nature and Structure Release (造遁, Zōton). It does not create matter out of nothingness, it gathers atoms and molecules from the surrounding area and uses them to create objects by integrating the molecules into the structure to create various different structures. This nature does not change the atoms into another (chemical) element, opening a weakness: If there's no "proper" matter around (stone or metal for example) you can only create structures out of the more unsuitable molecules around you. Also, gathering matter from a bigger distance requires more chakra. DarkblueFlow (talk) 19:04, November 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha it kinda reminds me of a Fullmetal Alchemist nature. Are you experienced with Japanese? --GoDai (talk) 11:51, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Ideas Pt. 12
For the Judgment release I was thinking of a energy that can cause great pleasure and healing and also when needed great pain. Sort of like the Heaven and Hell reward of Christianity.

Lightning + Water + Yang = Luck release. Symbolically you have to be unlucky in life to get hit by lightning since the chances are really low, Yang is seen as positive according to the table which can translate as lucky i guess and water is neutral but would act as the catalyst. Since water is seen as a purifying substance it would allow the energy or substance go from bad to good luck and so on a reflection on water's many states and ability to exist in varying temperature on opposite ends basically water adaptability.

Lightning + Water + Yin = Void release. Yin represents space and therefore void. A void a is a place with no matter, to achieve this Lighting provides the energy to break up bonds. Water pulls the separated mass towards it self in which Yin absorbs since it is seen as taking in on the table and wet. Yin also causes the yin/yang balance of an object to collapse removing its form and leaving nothing left. What is left is a void.

Earth + Lightning + Yin = Transition/Form/Matter/Energy/Material/Convert Release. Following the Wet release idea that deals with turning things into liquids, this element would deal with turning objects into energy(lightning) or into solid matter(Earth). Yin deals with form and would pass on its form manipulating qualities to the element as well as aid. If you want examples, as gas is hit and it can turn into energy or a solid state in which it color depends on what color the gas was originally.

Water + Lightning + Yang/Yin = Refraction/Bend release. Water has light refracting qualities. Lighting gives out light and could turn an object into thus. Yang enhances these qualities or Yin aids in manipulation of form. The idea is a energy or substance that causes objects to bend and contort.

As for the bonding release, a better name for it might be clump.

Lightning + Water + Yang/Yin = Flux/Ferro release. The idea is this:    Basically Lightning passes on its magnetic qualities on to water in which its strange shape qualities and color(when introduced to a magnet) are attributed to Yin or have Yang act as the magnet. You basically have a black magnetic water.Umishiru (talk) 04:46, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

The closest thing I ever got to something like luck was when I tried to make an Entropy Release for fire/water/lightning before the purification idea came along. It had to do with charges of water molecules changing when they change states. Void is kinda like Wind Release's vacuum for me. I'm still sold on the smelting/welding idea for lightning/earth/yin. The flexibility is something I had though for a possible Rubber Release, but Lava took rubber for itself. The ferrofluid idea looks like an interesting variety for Magnet Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:24, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I was going for a liquid version of Magnet Release.Umishiru (talk) 01:28, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Alkali metals
I was considering other possible properties one could give to chakra in Naruto. Along with an idea of a viral chakra (Although I didn't think it would be a nature, your similar Miasma theory seemed to fit fairly well), I also previously thought of something like an ability related to manipulating the alkali metals, or some sort of similar substance. Visible traits such as their high reactivity with water and air would be a big factor. Although there could be a better place for such nature, the place it would fit most well in this case would be Earth/Lightning/Yang, I think. The lightning's characteristic of unstable energy (and how lightning is amplified by water) would be applied to Earth to produce an earth that would react violently in water, and if very reactive, spontaneously combust in air. An Alkali (アルカリ Arukari) nature, allowing for the use of Alkali Release (碱遁, Kenton) ninjutsu. I asked Shounensuki about this and he said although the term is uncommon, it should be fine for the nature name. I personally imagine the user producing metals, increasing in reactivity (From sodium all the way to cesium). And the term covers both alkaline substances and alkali metals so it also fits my general idea of something that could maybe be the opposite of Boil's acidic nature. I also thought we should try to stick with things that do sound like physical elements, because I felt Purification and Erase were borderline abstract. Oh if you do complete the table I hope we'll have time to revise it. ^^ --GoDai (talk) 05:53, November 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Alkali is an interesting idea. My only concern is that Mei implied that she could manipulate the pH levels of the mist, meaning she can potentially make it into a strong base as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:24, November 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm yeah you're probably right. For this nature, I'm mostly just thinking of pure alkali metals like Rubidium and Cesium, not bases like their hydroxide forms. So rather than focusing on bases, I'm focusing more on the metals themselves and their reactive characteristics like exploding in water. --GoDai (talk) 03:15, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like something that goes under metal release.Umishiru (talk) 03:19, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I thought that too but we also have Mercury, so I was thinking Metal as more of the general sense of metal we refer to in everyday life. --GoDai (talk) 11:49, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Reaction

 * As cool sounding as that is, ferrofluid is actually made from tiny particles of iron that is put in a liquid, so this actually has to add some kind of earth chakra as well.

EDIT: Never mind, forget what i said. This could actually be used since magnet release uses a metal (shuriken, gold, etc.) to perform jutsus. My bad. I just read that it uses iron as well and automatically assumed. My bad. Joshbl56 04:37, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

your guess
Which of your advanced elements will come as true ? --Elveonora (talk) 01:32, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

To get techincal, we don't know really. One of his elements shave been made canon but were made canon through different names. It has his heat release idea which in the canon is Scorch release. Though I doubt Kishi uses this site for ideas.Umishiru (talk) 01:36, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Haha, you never know. But seriously, I mean ... there are dozens of combinations possible and also I have a question for Omni: Do you think it makes a difference which element enhances whom ? I mean, is it the same if you combine water and wind as wind and water ? And what advanced nature you think is about to appear next? --Elveonora (talk) 01:41, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's the same if you combine wind and water or water and wind. I have no idea which nature will appear next. Assuming Scorch is Fire/Wind, Explosion is Fire/Lightning, and Magnet Earth/Lightning, next is Lightning/Wind. I really hoped that with the revelation of previous techniques as natures, such as Magnet and Explosion, that Gaara's sand sould be revealed as Earth/Wind. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:00, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the Sand is KKG of some sorts, its still not explained in detail about Gaara's powers. For example Roshi, he and his beast were able to use Lava. But was Lava the power of the beast and Roshi was able to use that thanks to it or its Roshi's KKG and the beast is able to use it while Roshi transformed ?

Also I think its a difference which applies first. Isn't it different if you apply Wind to Earth thus earth thats sharp and thin, and Earth to Wind thus wind able to change it's solidity/density ? Or Fire to Wind = Scorch and Wind to Fire thus sharp and thin fire ? (Laser) Because each chakra nature has 2 properties/behaviors:

But: However, there are exceptions to this in the "form of some mediums" (meaning its possible to control existing/real fire as well) example example 2
 * Fire Release: It is performed by moulding "superheated chakra" inside the stomach before releasing it via the lungs and mouth (so it's actually not fire just hot chakra) example

But: Wind techniques are usually performed by "generating air circulation and can be enhanced through this method as well" (control of real wind source/medium) example example 2
 * Wind Release: It is performed by "manipulating chakra to be as sharp and thin as possible" (sharp and thin chakra) example

But: Lightning is much more powerful when it "utilises natural lightning" example
 * Lighting Release: Allows the user to "generate lightning by increasing the high frequency vibrations of their chakra", allowing for piercing damage and fast movement, the electricity paralyses the target (fast vibrating chakra) example

But: Or to create it; be it dirt, mud, or rock and have the "ability to change the strength and composition" of the earth from being as hard as metal to as soft as clay example example 2 example 3
 * Earth Release: Allows the user to "manipulate the surrounding earth" example

But: Or create their own, by "turning their chakra into water" example Water Release techniques can not only "change shape but state as well" example 2
 * Water Release: Allows the user to "manipulate pre-existing water" example

What I'm trying to say that nature transormations are able to use pre-existing mediums, change chakra into an element or combine elemental chakra with pre-existing medium. Thus it's a difference if you add Earth Release properties into already existing earth or other source, create earth from chakra or just add Earth Release properties into something for example Sand/Raikage as Onoki did.

So it's possible to add Wind Release properties into real water, to add Wind Release properties into Water Release water. So it's a difference which elemental property is applied first and into what.

So it's not the same if you combine lighting/earth or earth/lighting. As I said, there are dozens of combinations possible. --Elveonora (talk) 03:13, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

So ? Also I think Sand is Wind+Earth, I have my own theories of course only if you are interested. --Elveonora (talk) 02:14, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

While its an interesting theory, elemental fusion is simultaneous. That means Wind + Earth is the same as Earth + Wind. One after the other is collaboration.Umishiru (talk) 02:24, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Well this entire "properties" thing is basically what I preach all the time :P. However, from what we've seen, there isn't going to be 20 combinations because there's a fixed pattern. Copy-pasting from what I proposed to Omnibender before: ''My current pattern theory for natures is that the "enhancing nature" affects the "main nature" in a counterclockwise direction on the nature transformation diagram. As I said before, Wind enhanced Water to create Ice, Fire enhanced Earth for Lava, Water to Lightning for Storm, Earth to Wind for some "solid wind" nature which Dust was previously a candidate for, and now, Lightning to Fire for Explosion. In my theory Ice can only be created from water, Lava from earth, Storm from lightning, and Explosion from fire, and Ice cannot be created from pre-existing wind, Lava cannot be created from fire, Storm cannot be created from water, and Explosion cannot be created from lightning (although unsure for now). My new idea is that this also applies to the adjacent element combinations. In a counterclockwise direction, Fire enhances Water to produce Boil, Water to Earth to produce Wood, Earth to Lightning to produce Magnetism (As the nature didn't create magnetic rocks or anything), Lightning to Wind for a theoretical "vibrating/fast/shattering wind", and Wind to Fire for Scorch, a phasing fire. Overall, Fire can be enhanced by Wind or Lightning, Wind can be enhanced by Lightning or Earth, Lightning can be enhanced by Earth or Water, Earth can be enhanced by Water or Fire, and Water can be enhanced by Fire or Wind. Kishimoto's more unorthodox natures like Storm seems to imply this pattern, which I plan to build on top of my old, partially failed theory. A counterclockwise direction may also be an interesting approach as opposed to the clockwise direct relationships the natures have.'' Oh and by the way the "opposite" and "adjacent" combinations are terms I used for my previous theory. In conclusion, I don't think there's going to be 20 kekkei genkai combinations because it looks like Kishi is showing us a pattern. When Lightning+Water turned out to be something no one really expected, I sensed this "direction of enhancement". If Water must enhance Lightning, Lightning will probably enhance Fire, Fire to Earth, Earth to Wind, and Wind to Water. It all makes sense so far, really. --GoDai (talk) 03:46, November 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Opposite" Recompositions:
 * Ice: Wind enhances Water; Floating ice; Can be produced from Water.
 * Lava: Fire enhances Earth; Molten earth; Can be produced from Earth. 
 * Storm: Water enhances Lightning; Fluid electricity; Can be produced from Lightning.
 * "Pressure"?: Earth enhances Wind; Solid air; Can be produced from Wind. (Previously thought of for Dust until it became a KT. I'm thinking since Gaara does not turn chakra into sand, he must be using a form of chakra that manipulates sand the way magnetism manipultes metal, which is why it's Magnetism Release, not Metal Release.)
 * Explosion: Lightning enhances Fire; Sudden combustion; Can be produced from Fire. (I previously had Blaze but I realized Explosion made so much more sense and it seems to work)
 * "Adjacent" Recompositions:
 * Scorch: Wind enhances Fire; Phasing heat; Can be produced from Fire. 
 * Boil: Fire enhances Water; Burning water; Can be produced from Water. 
 * Wood: Water enhances Earth; Trees growing from the earth in fluid forms; Can be produced from the Earth. 
 * Magnetism: Earth enhances Lightning; Magnetic energy; Can be produced from Lightning. 
 * "Resonate"?: Lighting enhances Wind; Vibrating air?; Can be produced from Wind. I see shockwaves in my mind, like the ones that you pointed out that were similar to Pulse.
 * Oh and I take a tiny bit of pride in Scorch Release, because I predicted Fire+Wind would be something along the lines of a superheated air. At the time Omnibender's table had Smoke fore Fire+Wind and Heat Release was an enhanced Fire, I think. I still do think Smoke would've worked out well too. --GoDai (talk) 03:57, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's not the same if you pour water into acid and acid into water. I will try to explain again. Wind+Earth, adding wind properties into earth as a medium. Earth+Wind, adding earth properties into wind as a medium.


 * Fire+Wind = Scorch (making wind release hot, evaporating water at a molecular level)
 * Wind+Fire = Laser (Sharp and Thin beams of fire)
 * Fire+Lighting = Flash (Lighting moving at speed of light)
 * Lighting+Fire = Heat (Highly vibrating waves of fire causing heat in weather)
 * Fire+Earth = Magma (Heated earth)
 * Earth+Fire = Lava (Fire with changed composition)
 * Fire+Water = Steam (Evaporating water)
 * Water+Fire = Boil/Acid (creating an acidic hot mist)
 * Wind+Lighting = Energy
 * Lighting+Wind = Explosion (Highly vibrating electrons [sparks] getting in contact with oxigen in a high air pressure causing an explosion)
 * Wind+Earth = Sand (wind cutting and shaping earth minerals into sand)
 * Earth+Wind = Crystal (Creating Crystals in the air from various compositions by increasing their density)
 * Wind+Water = Bubble (cutting and shaping water to create bubbles)
 * Water+Wind = Ice (making wind solid)
 * Lighting+Earth = Quake (vibrating thus shaking ground)
 * Earth+Lighting= Magnetism (increasing the potency of electrones)
 * Lighting+Water = Shock (rotating water under voltage)
 * Water+Lighting = Plasma/Storm Release (changing state and shape of electricity into beams of lighting)
 * Water+Earth = Mud (changing state of earth into liquid)
 * Earth+Water = Corrosion (increasing density and potency of water thus making the corrosion instant)

I have yin,yang,yin-yang and also 3 element combinations in mind but will post them later because its too long. If you are dunno where Wood is, just ask :P --Elveonora (talk) 09:38, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Well I was previously one of those people that strongly beleived that there were going to be 20 combinations, a bit similar to your ideas. This was also supported by the fact that Mei's Lava Release was using a different kanji that could potentially mean "corrosion", although it turned out to be just lava in the anime. Anyway, the Japanese wording is crucial for me. You see, while pouring water into acid and pouring acid into water are different, that's not exactly how simultaneous nature transformation works, it's more like suddenly having water and acid mixed together without a certain order. They aren't mixing two different chakras, they're giving one body of chakra two properties at the same time to create a completely new chakra. The whole reason Kishi emphasized this is because: I hope that gives you an idea of what I think, and hopefully it gives you more ideas for discussion. I think you have a lot of similar ideas as me, like the Left Eye Fire and Right Eye Yin for Blaze (It makes sense because Uchiha have been attributed to those two :P). --GoDai (talk) 09:56, November 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nature Transformation, often misunderstood, is giving one's own chakra some properties to turn it into different forms of matter and energy. It basically "disguises" your chakra and makes the environment react the same way it would with the real thing, since "nature" refers to "properties" or "behavior". When one manipulates pre-existing elements, I believe they are using a small amount of this natured chakra to "pull" on rest of the already-existing element, making it follow the chakra's movements. I think you already said something similar, althought nature transformation is really both of the things you said. It gives things properties, but it does that because the chakra itself carries these properties, and one converts chakra into the element by giving the chakra near-identical properties.
 * Therefore, when one simultaneously gives their chakra the properties of two elements, they're basically creating something that's perfectly two things at the same time, in a way. In this case, Lava would be like Fire and Earth, both at the same time, since it carries both sets of properties. Now the big question is why doesn't it turn into a solid, dense fire then. I think of it as dominant and recessive characteristics, when they co-exist, some characteristics suppress others, resulting in a molten earth, with fire being the enhancing element and earth the enhanced element. Since Kishimoto clearly told us it was simultaneous transformation of two natures, it's actually logically impossible for there to be two different things, with the information we've been given. Don't get me wrong; 20 natures is extremely possible in this case, although it would be slightly awkward with what Kishi has told us.
 * Fire enhances Earth. Earth enhances Wind (unknown). Wind enhances Water. Water enhances Lightning. Ligthning enhances Fire. Next, Fire enhances Water, Water enahnces Earth, Earth enhances Lightning, Lightning enhances Wind (unknown), and Wind enhances Fire. All these make sense so far, and I find it quite strange that Kishi hasn't shown us any of the reverse of these(We haven't seen Lightning enhancing Water, Water enhancing Wind, and so on).
 * And I'm guessing you're going for the Wood is Earth/Water/Yang? XD --GoDai (talk) 09:56, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Exactly with the Wood and Blaze stuff. Also I think 1st element is always used as an enhancer/amplifier and the 2nd one as a medium. It's still 2 natures used simultaneously just one applied to other. If it were combining both mediums and applying both to each other, the result from water and wind would be Blizzard with sharp and thin hail-stones that are able to change solidity or something. --Elveonora (talk) 11:30, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's what I mean when I say they have dominant and recessive roles when their properties overlap. It's really about what's more natural and which one automatically and naturally takes which role for me. Since it is practically impossible to be solid and fluid at the same time, hot and cold at the same time, matter and energy at the same time, etc., the "simultaneously combined" result will appear to only bear some properties of one thing and some properties of another. Ice is made of water, but the ice mirrors float, which is similar to what we've seen for other Wind-related elements like Scorch and Dust, and possibly the nature responsible for sand manipulation. This is probably because they naturally fall into the roles, as a fluid wind is a bit redundant compared to, let's say, a fluid lightning. There's also quite a deal of Japanese traditional culture and the Godai involved. --GoDai (talk) 11:46, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

I like the way of your thinking, but im still after my theory :P Did you read all my combinations ? Also, how do you know about my Wood and Blaze stuff ? Did you read that or you think that as well ? : D --Elveonora (talk) 11:50, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

Well let's just say I think about every single possibility over and over again to reach the best conclusions. I read things everywhere, and the Blaze thing, I even have the Fire Yin thing on my page. The Wood thing was a guess, I've thought of the idea myself and I was wondering for only about 5 seconds when I saw that you didn't have Wood in your list. I was actually quite surprised when I saw you say a lot of your ideas, because they sounded extremely similar to what I mentioned quite a long time ago. --GoDai (talk) 12:23, November 13, 2011 (UTC)

About Sand Manipulation
For now, I think sand manipulation is granted by a nature that's not called Sand, although it may be vague. I did have "pressure" in the pattern theory I always preach, since I predict the combination of Earth and Wind will be Earth enhancing the Wind to create a "solid wind", which allows Gaara to manipulate sand. Sand is very often related to pressure, with a lot of Gaara's techniques being based on utilising it. I feel that the chakra being used is something like a mass of dense, pressurized air that is being used to shape the sand, because sand is the ideal material for such form of air to interact with, being easily carried by it. When Gaara crushes targets with sand he's using his chakra, infused inside, to press it in, and I imagine this chakra is in the form of something like dense, invisible air bubbles that push and carry the sand. It's really up for debate, and since it's so vague other ideas would be very welcome ^^. --GoDai (talk) 12:23, November 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Magnetism Release manipulates metal. It does not turn chakra into metal, but rather into a metal-manipulating force.
 * "Pressure(? Or some other name.)" Release manipulates sand. It does not turn chakra into sand, but rather into a sand-manipulating force.

Im happy we have/had similar ideas. I think it's (again my part : D) Wind+Earth not Earth+Wind, because again theres wind cutting and shaping minerals in earth into sand. Earth+Wind I have for Crystal since its Earth Creating Crystals in the air from various particles by increasing their density. But who knows, maybe you are right and maybe I am ... or even both of us are wrong. Also do you know some other popular theories/speculations I should know about ? I have not read other's talkpages ... I'm new to this. So if ya have for me more interesting theories not limited to advanced natures, then bring them to me and we can discuss :P Also what do you think is with Kekkei Tota stuff ? I used to think something, but I changed it. --Elveonora (talk) 12:33, November 13, 2011 (UTC)