Talk:Shinjutsu

Other Shinjutsu
Now that we have this new jutsu type, should the previous techniques used by the Ōtsutsuki members be classified as shinjutsu now or… ? OmegaRasengan (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It was actually quite obvious that Otsutsuki techniques aren't Ninjutsu, since Otsutsuki are no Ninja and Indra invented it. Since Indra invented Ninjutsu, this must mean Hagoromo's techniques were Shinjutsu, what complicates matters is, that in the anime he can use Senjutsu from Toads and Susanoo and we list Susanoo as Ninjutsu... also are Rinnegan techniques also Shinjutsu now?Elve Talk Page 05:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Kishimoto making a mess of continuity, in other breaking news, water is wet. This isn't really a new mess, since stuff like Chibaku Tensei and Amenominaka were listed a ninjutsu despite predating Indra's turning ninshu into ninjutsu. I think trying to decide what Rinnegan stuff is or isn't would be a mess. I think it depends on whose Rinnegan we're talking about. My immediate thought is that shinjutsu seems to be kekkei mora by another name. That just showed up in the fourth databook with no explanation on what it actually was. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think at the very least all non-hybrid Otsutsuki techniques(everything Kaguya, Momoshiki, Kinshiki, and Urashiki had unique to them) should qualify as Shinjutsu by default. Rinne-Sharingan definitely counts(even though I personally dont think its any different than other rinnegan) Rinnegan techniques used by humans and hybrids(Amenotejikara and Limbo) should count as well. the six paths techniques are a bit more questionable and seem to be exclusive to the purple Rinnegan used by human hybrids and non-existent in pure Otsutsuki as of now. Mangekyo Sharingan is another questionable one as those abilities predate ninjutsu, are not used the same as ninjutsu, and seem to be derivative of Rinnegan abilities however no known Sharingan abilities have been shown used by pure Otsutsuki outside of hybrids like Hagoromo using Susanoo. Tenseigan is completely up in air, only two known users(one of which isn't even exactly confirmed) who were both hybrids and all abilities shown seem to be a mix of six paths sagejutsu and Shinjutsu-like abilities. Personally I think that all Otsutsuki, Rinnegan, and Mangekyo Sharingan qualify as Shinjutsu due to them predating ninjutsu and defying laws of reality that ordinary ninjutsu cannot accomplish. zacharyman1mil - Talk 3:47, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Shinjutsu doesn't require any hand seals first and seemingly works differently than Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu is meditating/concentrating and changing chakra to achieve a specific result, while Shinjutsu user seemingly doesn't even need to know how to use chakra and Ninjutsu. Since Hagoromo thought that Ninjutsu was revolutionary when Indra invented it, Shinjutsu users simply will the effect into existence, without transforming the chakra. I mean, Kawaki used Karma before he even learned that he too has chakra and can use it for Ninjutsu. Therefore Hagoromo in my humble opinion is a Shinjutsu user, Ninjutsu starting with Indra. Hell, Six Paths: Chibaku Tensei allows one to use a more powerful version of a Rinnegan technique without a Rinnegan, simply by physical touch. Creation of All Things also seems like a definitive Shinjutsu candidate, although I disagree with the notion that Shinjutsu > Ninjutsu, since we have things like Edo Tensei, Living Corpse Reincarnation, Reaper Death Seal and so on, that are pretty much divine levelElve Talk Page 13:49, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I think even those you can see a distinct line drawn as they all have hefty restrictions and tolls compared to the likes of the naraka path(which now that think about it how much more shinjutsu can you get than casually summoning a deity of hell to revive the dead) and karma. the majority of hagoromo's move set I definitely think qualify as shinjutsu. since since shinjutsu is not very well defined yet where the line is drawn is incredibly vague and could probably include things like byakugan(which apparently can be used to see the future so thats something), all other dojutsu, and every technique that predates ninjutsu. the hand signs rule doesn't seem very universal since a mastered ninjutsu can skip much of the hand signs or even all of them and very powerful shinjutsu can require hand signs to help human users along(like amateraus, chibaku tensei, and that meteorite thing madara did both needing hand signs on some occasions but don't seem to be a strict neccessity) zacharyman1mil - Talk 9:37, 6 december 2022 (UTC)
 * Kishomoto making a mess of things, while not news, doesn't mean we have to make it even more of a mess. This is definitely something to keep track of, but absent further clarifications, I wouldn't change anything. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:09, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

The Eyes
Now that we have more information, I'd like to discuss what to do with the eye articles. I previously changed Senrigan's infobox from the genetic to a jutsu one because we had no information on what exactly it was, kkg or scientific ninja tool, considering Ada's status as a cyborg tinkered with by Amado. Isshiki's dojutsu were genetic infobox from the start because there was no indication scientific ninja tools were involved in it. Since with the Isshiki eye we had a genetic infobox for the eye and jutsu infoboxes for the actual jutsu, I think it's appropriate to change Senrigan back to the genetic infobox, since we know have quite explicit confirmation those can be transplanted through DNA. Thoughts? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:02, 24 November 2022 (UTC)