Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26958911-20151010214426/@comment-26773508-20151024064632

GreatestSin wrote: @BakumatsuWarrior

lets look at all the victims of a genjutsu, did they have constant control of their chakra (like mentaining it the whole time)?

naruto is the same, he needs to disrupt his chakra flow in order to free himself from a genjutsu, if anything, than it would end like clone-itachi vs naruto in the beginning of part 2, only that naruto would free himself with the first attempt, a normal genjutsu has therefore no chance of doing big harm to him, but tsukuyomi only needs a moment and this is more than enough (even with the assumption that generic genjutsu dispelling techs are useful), at which point in the story was a char able to dispel a genjutsu before recognizing that they had already been trapped in one?

btw, we know that chakra control makes you powerful enough to destroy genjutsus but this either requires another person or the user to do it, and before the genjutsu was cast it was never shown to be possible to stop it, you suddenly say that naruto can (do soemthing that was never shown or hinted to be possible) because he is in the top5 of chakra control :I Look, I'll just say it again. The question I'm raising is whether Itachi can even succeed in disrupting Naruto's chakra flow for even a picosecond? Like you said, once Naruto's in a genjutsu, he'd have to disrupt his chakra flow to get out of it, either by himself or with the help of someone else. But why does Naruto have to disrupt his chakra flow? Because his natural, ordinary chakra flow was disrupted the moment the genjutsu was cast in the first place. So Naruto has to disrupt the disrupted chakra flow to get out of the genjutsu.

So the scenario where Naruto gets caught in Itachi's genjutsu, and then manages to break free from it, can be broken down to 5 successive events:

1. Before genjutsu: Naruto's chakra is flowing in the natural, ordinary manner.

2. The instant the genjutsu is cast: This is the instant Itachi manages to disrupt/modify Naruto's chakra flow.

3. During genjutsu: If Event 2 succeeds, Naruto starts hallucinating. During this time, Naruto's chakra flow is abnormal.

4. The instant Naruto corrects his abnormal chakra flow: After some time of being in the genjutsu (could be a fraction of seconds or several minutes, doesn't matter) Naruto either disrupts the disrupted chakra flow by himself or has someone else do it for him.

5. After genjutsu: If Event 4 succeeds, Naruto will be free of the particular genjutsu he was placed under. So now he can continue fighting Itachi in the real world.

Now your main argument has rested on the assumption that all the 5 chronological Events described above will most likely take place if Itachi vs SPSM Naruto ever takes place. You also say that Naruto will take severe damage even if he breaks out of Tsukuyomi within one second of it being cast, which is absolutely true, since Tsukuyomi can alter the victim's perception of time (1 second in Tsukuyomi could mean 1 year in the victim's mind). That is a valid conclusion, provided that all the events from 1 to 5 take place.

Now my objection is that if SPSM Naruto and healthy Itachi were to ever fight, I severely doubt Event 2 will take place at all. You assume that it will take place. I say that most likely it won't. As we've never seen Itachi in a fight against someone at SPSM Naruto's level, so we can't go around assuming that Itachi would be able to disrupt chakra that is waayyyyy beyond the leagues of anyone he's ever fought or known, including himself.

But you say that Naruto has never shown any strong feats against genjutsu. True. But Itachi also has 0 feats against shinobis who are, for all practical purposes, demigods. They may not be called demigods in the series, but SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke are at that level for all practical purposes. And to disrupt chakra that powerful, one would expect Itachi to be at least at the same tier as SPSM Naruto. But he isn't. So it's highly unlikely SPSM Naruto can be put under Tsukuyomi for even a fraction of a second.

QuakingStar wrote: If Naruto can't stay the effects of infinite tsukuyomi with his spsm, then koto and tsukuyomi would rape him. Eye contact is all thats needed for Tsukuyomi. Naruto's chakra changes nothing against that, no proof it can or would. Inf tsukuyomi is simply a large scale boosted version and Sasuke made it clear Naruto would get ownwd by it Dude, if Infinite Tsukuyomi were to be likened to the Milky Way Galaxy, then Tsukuyomi would be like Pluto or Mercury. The difference in scale and strength between the two genjutsus is of tens of thousands of orders in magnitude. Don't you even compare the two tsukuyomis -_-