Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-30323490-20180822175947/@comment-34194151-20180822221752

@Kirito975

Reread the chapters that explained the warring states period. hashirama has way more in field head-head direct combat experience than jiriaya, that is a fact, it isn't debatable. The war was so regular and brutal that the average life span was a mere age 30. Hashirama not only fought every day of his life for several decades, shortly after the 5 villages were formed, hashirama fought in the 1st shinobi world war as well, where he captured and subdued the bijuu. Jiraiya fought in the second world war, and that don't compare at all in magnitude and scale of hashirama's warring states experience + 1st shinobi war. Did jiraiya fight every day for decades? no he did not. iraiya spent his time mostly as a spy and a sensei after that, and  I mentioned nothing about covert tactics or espionage. Jiraiya is obviously more experienced in that, but not head to head fighting. I clearly stated that one must consider the type of experience in question. We don't know what age hashirama died or how he did, so where did you get that he died at age 30 from? I did some research, and timelines suggests he died in his mid 40s. Madara also said he fought users of the 8 inner gates, so there will people like that during his and hashirama's time.

And if you want to use the argument of fodder/nameless shinobi, then that is easily countered by the fact the strongest person jiraiya fought before the start of the series was hanzo (who is fodder to either hashirama or madara in every way), and he lost with a ton of back-up plus two other sannin, while hashirama defeated the second strongest person of his era many times solo. Hashirama's experience outclasses jiraiya's in both quality and quantity. by your logic ohnoki, kakashi, hiruzen, and jiraiya mostly fought fodder shinobi too before the start of the series, which obviously isn't true. Jiraiya spent his time mostly as a spy after that.

Experience is an intangible much like intelligence, so you can't just disregard how it will affect each action in the battle. We are talking about a dude who can capture full kurama bijuu damas with his buddha hand, wood durable enough to survive the same dama explosion at close range, and redirect them but somehow regular sm naruto rasengans are taking him out? As per the OP, naruto doesn't know about the wood-style restricting capablities, and while kurama would likely give him intel, that still doesn't stop him from being caught off guard against a dude who has experience fighting bijuu, and is capable of suppressing the ten-tails it self. If he goes bijuu mode avatar and uses flash damas, laughing budda jutsu captures the bijuu damas and throws them back. Wood dragons +shinsusenju + deity gates make kurama avatar a non-factor. Hashirama's several thousand hands also overpowered 11 PS susano'o ehnahced bijuudamas and still had enough firepower to strip off PS, even if naruto's bijuu rasenshurikens can compete with this, hashirama can still divert them through multiple means, like rashomon gates. Hashirama won't be phased by ones from this version of naruto. What is naruto's answer to SM hashi pollen with his avatar taken away? A watered down wood-style pollen jutsu from madara crippled the 5 kages and without ohnoki's will of the stone plot armor, they couldn't do anything. Naruto has the firepower to compete with hashirama, but hashirama can counter all of his moves because he has comparable stats. Hence it comes down to skill/experience, and hashi's experience closes the gap. Naruto needs SPSM hax to win, because with that he has abilities that easily circumvent hashi's experience (hashi's experience works against himself in that case) and I don't think hashi can suppress SPSM naruto with mokuton.