Talk:Hiden: Hiding in Scale Powder Technique

Bee's Shades?
Should it be mentioned (in trivia maybe?) that bee said this doesn't effect him because of his shades? Joshbl56  04:24, November 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a blinding technique, the shades simply did what they were supposed to do. I don't think that's warrants a mention in trivia.--Deva 27 04:26, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think I agree with Josh on that point. Even something in trivia. Something like "While this technique is versatile in how it can blind multiple targets, it's effect can simply be stopped by wearing 'shades' or covering ones eyes". Or something along those lines? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 11:18, November 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not so much covering your eyes since the technique would still be in effect when you open them but if it can be mentioned without making B's sunglasses sound special/important then that's fine I suppose.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:11, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Something like that..? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 12:24, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Better Image
Can someone upload a better image of Fū using this technique as I'm not sure where to find a better quality raw image? Also, why is the second image so long? Joshbl56 19:14, November 23, 2011 (UTC)

Insectile Scales
Just a note: while the kanji in the term rinpun (鱗粉) literally means "scale powder", the term refers specifically to insectile scales (such as the "dust" on moth wings). According to old wive's tales, that "dust" causes blindness. FF-Suzaku (talk) 02:42, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added a link to Wiki article to make it more clear.Faust-RSI (talk) 10:59, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it a Tailed Beast Skill then ? --Elveonora (talk) 11:04, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's related, or at least it fits in insects' "theme". But it's classified as "hijutsu", I don't recall any bijuu skill having its own classification.Faust-RSI (talk) 11:35, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Who added is as hiden ? it was never stated.--Elveonora (talk) 11:59, November 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it was. Faust-RSI (talk) 12:03, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

My bad, sorry.--Elveonora (talk) 12:06, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the explanation, good to know it was realted to insects ^^ --201.240.228.136 (talk) 02:15, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Rename
This explanation is not mine, but made by a trustworthy translator: Transcribed: Hiden・Rinpun-gakure no Jutsu Literally: Secret・Scale(as in the powdery scales of butterflies)-hiding Technique

As far as the word "powder" is concerned, this is a mistranslation of the word 鱗粉[rinpun], which refers specifically to the powdery, microscopic scales of butterflies and moths (or scales of lepidopterans, per takL ). In English, these things are just called "scales", I don't think there is a word that's used specifically for butterfly/lepidoptera scales.

The kanji for 鱗粉[rinpun] taken individually is 鱗 = literally means "scale" and 粉 = literally means "powder", but since this is a compound kanji word, you can't take the meanings the individual kanji components separately.

So, Fuu is spewing out glittery butterfly scales that sparkle so brightly as to blind the opponent. Faust-RSI (talk) 09:52, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Shounensuki, our resident translator (and the only one I know) translated it as "Hiden: Hiding in Scale Powder Technique" you can bring this up with him on his talk page.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:19, November 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * There's nothing wrong with translating 鱗粉 as 'scale powder', both because it's a technically correct translation (the scales do form a powder, after all) and because it both translates the general meaning of the word and the general feel of it. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:33, November 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not technically correct in any way. Scales don't form a powder, powder is something that is usually present on the scales. That's exactly why rinpun means insects' scales, because powder is unique to them and can't be found on, let's say, fishes' scales. Rinpun=insect scales, you can't translate it as scale powder just because it consists of these two words. That would be mechanical translation without context and I believe you're far better level than that.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:44, November 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, the scales of butterflies and such are so small they do form a powder themselves. Also, there's more to a word than the mere face-value meaning. In this case, it's beyond obvious that the 'powder' part of the Japanese word is quite important. Leaving it out would remove a huge part of the intended meaning and feeling of the name. Take it from a professional translator that translating is more than simply conveying meaning. You also have to convey feeling, style, rhythm, et cetera. That's why I like translating for Narutopedia so much. I'm allowed — even encouraged — to use explanatory translator's notes, so I can basically translate each aspect of a term, whereas with a normal text, I'd have to make compromises. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:52, November 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I was the one who gave the translation for this and Suki-san confirmed it. We both know how to translate Japanese, while you just copy what someone else said. You obviously don't know how to translate Japanese, don't you? It's two with knowledge against one, who doesn't know what he's talking about, huh? I think, that settles it. Seelentau 愛議 19:37, December 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm a lurker at NarutoForums, so I know takL's translations a bit, and as far as I know, he (or she? No idea) is Japanese. If I'm not mistaken, he's the one who clarified something about what Madara said about absorbing Mei's technique to ShounenSuki. I prefer ShounenSuki's translations, because they feel more polished to me, and they convey meanings that are usually lost on translation due to puns and cultural background behind some terms, which I consider going the extra mile. However Seelentau, I think that this was unnecessarily antagonising from you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:51, December 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention to sound rude. I just can't understand why he thinks he is right and we are wrong, when we have the knowledge and he has (obviously) not. Seelentau 愛議 21:57, December 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * TakL is a native Japanese speaker which does give him an advantage over that language. However, he is neither a professional translator nor a great English speaker. He also doesn't pay much attention to consistency and spelling, really. As I said above, he was technically right about 鱗粉 really just meaning 'scales', but not being well-versed with the intricacies of actual translating, he overlooked the deeper meaning as he is quite prone to do. He definitely beats me in knowledge of Japanese, but I think i have him beat when it comes to knowledge of English and translation skills. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:27, December 1, 2011 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Skill?
Should this jutsu be labeled as a Tailed Beast Skill? I know the Fu's tailed beast Chomei is an insect and this ability is an insect related jutsu so at first glance it would appear to be a tailed beast skill. I always thought that because this was labeled as a Hiden jutsu that meant it couldn't be a tailed beast skill. Hiden jutsu are passed down orally from generation to generation in certain regions or clans. Fu could not learn this technique from a previous jinchuriki because they die when the tailed beast is extracted from them to put into a new host. I thought this was a jutsu unique to Fu's clan or something because it was labeled as Hiden. Also we have never seen Chomei use the powder scale jutsu before (video games don't count); I know there has been speculation as to the rasenshuriken Naruto created with Chomei's chakra was scale powder but it is unclear exactly what Chomei rasenshuriken is from the picture. This is just my personal opinion and you are free to disagree. ShadowVillage999 (talk) 12:03, August 10, 2014 (UTC)ShadowVillage999

As of the last chapter, Naruto used a rasenshuriken of each tailed beast, this included a scale powder one, which means Fu's clan either had a special ability that a tailed beast had (like how magnet release users learned from studying shukaku) or alternatively Kishi changed his mind on where the scale powder comes from. Hadrimon (talk) 12:17, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Show me the scale powder please. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:40, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing will convince you otherwise so why bother asking Seelentau?
 * @ShadowVillage999 It's annoyingly tricky. The only reason why whatever Chomei's Rasenshuriken is using "scale powder" is because we have no idea what kind of trait Chomei has because it has done absolute fuck all since we've seen it. The only hint we do have is when Fu using this technique against Naruto and B and a plethora of game techniques based around the powder coming from Chomei. Now our two options is to say fuck it and use something stupid and vague like "unknown swirl of something" or use other sources besides strictly the manga.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:19, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm just saying that the super-whirly black rasen shuriken doesn't look like the bright white or yellow scale powder... • Seelentau 愛 議 13:37, August 10, 2014 (UTC)