Talk:Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken

this technique and the tailed beasts special abilities
I'm sure elvenora is seelentau are gonna call me out on it, but down the line we have sand, fire, coral, lava, steam, bubbles, ink and regular tailed beast ball, in order from 1 to 9.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 07:44, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I also notice that it turns out naruto isn't using the truth-seeking balls for this, but I'm just as certain this will be ignored. In any case this technique does confirm at least all the tailed beasts unique abilities and elements.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 07:50, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Elvenora is just going to cry and scream that the other jinchuriki have some Harry Potter shit going on that let's them do the natures and that Naruto is just renting irrelevant chakra XD.--Officialkamuiblade (talk) 07:55, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Should be there page for Sempo:Jinton:Rasenshuriken as well? Rage gtx (talk) 07:58, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, it's pretty obvious that they can be done separately so we should make one for each.--Officialkamuiblade (talk) 08:00, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Also, I have a question (and I'm gonna keep bringing it up until I get an answer). In 684, Kurama gave Naruto chakra for clones. But Kurama was colored like Yang Kurama instead of Yin Kurama, so we thought it was a mistake. In this chapter 688, Kurama was colored as Yang Kurama AGAIN. Is it possible that Kurama has become one entity inside Naruto? Kishi wouldn't make the same coloring mistake twice, would he? I thought Yin Kurama was inside Naruto, so why is the Kurama in Naruto colored like the original/Yang Kurama? And Kishi did it twice in 684 and 688. Someone care to explain? WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 08:02, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * hold it. Theoretically yes, in practice no. They have never been shown individually and beyond their composition we know nothing about how they worth other than blowing up, and all raaenshuriken blow up.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:05, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe Yang Kurama gave Naruto extra chakra like the other tailed beasts did (when they put their hands together with Naruto's) when Naruto was fighting Obito. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 08:08, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Mistake or merger. Nobody can answer your question until the volume is released.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:10, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so we have:
 * Ichibi and its Magnet Rasengan (you can even see sand this time)
 * Nibi and its Fire Rasengan (the flames look unlike any other flames, hm?)
 * Sanbi and its Water Rasengan (nothing special here, I think?)
 * Yonbi and its Lava Rasengan (we have this already)
 * Gobi and its Steam Rasengan (or so?)
 * Rokubi and its Acid Rasengan (nothing new here)
 * Nanabi and its... what's that? Wind?
 * Hachibi and its Ink Rasengan (lol)
 * Kyubi and its normal(?) Rasengan

• Seelentau 愛 議 08:18, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. Which finally confirms Magnet Release and sand.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:20, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. They are obviously related, but we still don't know more about the mechanics behind it, especially considering that there was no sand the first time. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:21, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * the only added thing this time is we see the sand, the rasengan in the middle looks exactly the same. That's enough for me to connect the two finally. To ignore it now would just be willing ignorance on our part.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:26, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, but acting as if we've figured out the mechanics behind it would be stupid nonetheless. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:34, August 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * @TheUltimate3, FRS and YRS can be used separately and only shuriken we know by name is JRS becose there was a rasengan of it, so why wait? Rage gtx (talk) 08:38, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * because as I just said, we only know their compositions not what else they can do. It would be an article with one sentence shared across 6 articles with names changed. If anything the unnamed ones should be listed here.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 08:47, August 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * Wasn't it once stated that Shukaku's ability comes from kneading his chakra into the sand? If that's the case then I don't think it's too much of a mystery. His chakra nature is magnetic, he kneads it into the Sand and boom, he controls sand.--Soul reaper (talk) 08:49, August 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * We must wait for the released volume or next chapters to know more details about these RSs --Sulina (talk) 08:50, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Matatabi's is obviously Blaze Release to me, but it's not like people are gonna agree with that... some of them are hard to tell... is that just plain old rocks or shards of ice?--Elveonora (talk) 10:17, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Matatabi's Blaze Release! And what shards of ice? Are you talking about Saiken's Rasenshuriken? I think that's bubbles.--Omojuze (talk) 10:21, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not Blaze Release, the Blaze flames are completely black. What ice/rocks are you talking about, though? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:22, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Chomei's, I believe people switched which Rasengan belongs to whom. The tornado like one at the bottom left is Saiken's imo, while the one above is Chomei's--Elveonora (talk) 10:30, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Same way then Isobu can be Ice Release with snow flakes flying near. Rage gtx (talk) 10:32, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * What has Saiken to do with wind and Chomei with acid bubbles? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:33, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

I think Elveo was referring to Scorch-Release, rather than Blaze.--Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 10:35, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Actually what you consider "wind" looks like acid to me, while what you deem "acid bubbles" looks like rocks/crystal/ice. The rasengans are under each their respective Tailed Beasts, the "twister" one is closer to slug's side while the "bubble" / rocks one to bug's--Elveonora (talk) 10:38,

August 6, 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's Scale Powder around the Choumei shuriken, it's even drawn like the cloud that Fu was spitting out in the manga. Hadrimon (talk) 11:16, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Cool, but what's the black core?--Elveonora (talk) 11:23, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Insects? >.< xDD--Omojuze (talk) 11:25, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

Wind Release
So can we finally agree that Wind Release has nothing to do with the Shuriken form of the Rasen Shuriken? • Seelentau 愛 議 08:59, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmmm…I don't even know anymore. Naruto could've just created Wind Release: Rasenshuriken and made the tailed beasts add their special abilities to each one.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 09:01, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * That may not be wind, that may be Scale Powder used by Fu. Also, should we create a separate article for each of the Rasenshuriken, like with Lava Release Rasenshuriken?--Omojuze (talk) 09:04, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been discussed above you about that. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 09:16, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Wind Release HAS to do with the Shuriken form, but shaping chakra into shuriken can obviously be done with shape transformation as well, so in order to make shuriken rasengan, wind release isn't needed--Elveonora (talk) 10:03, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Then again (and I probably never mentioned this), the third databook says that the Shuriken form comes from the Wind Release... • Seelentau 愛 議 10:05, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, in case of wind release rasengan, the wind release part makes the shuriken shape. But one can make fire release rasengan for example and make it shuriken with shape transformation--Elveonora (talk) 10:06, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

I think 7tails's rasenshuriken is more special...it's not a simple Futon: Rasenshuriken, its like a tornado or scale dust, or maybe just because we have the help of a much higher level Wind Release user Gerisama (talk) 10:12, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

What was said once before and agreed upon (that Fuuton is part of the technique and in the technique) should remain. It is mechanically-sound, and remains so until proven otherwise. I won't bother discussing it further. --Taynio (talk) 12:40, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

article for each version
this was mentioned above for not being usefull since we don't know what most of them do. I have to disagree though, we sure don't know the respective effects but that shouldn't stop us from making an article when we have the techniques right in front of our faces. we have an article for techniques where we literally don't know anything about like Paper Person of God Technique or Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Participate Formula. So why not about these where we can at least say how it looks like, from what bijuu it stems and what the presumed effects are? Iloveinoxxx (talk) 12:16, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I oppose article for each. Reasoning: the infobox would look awful with 50 rasengan variants--Elveonora (talk) 12:25, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a cheap excuse to me. Three versions already have their article mentioned in the infobox already, so why should the rest being there be an issue to begin with?Iloveinoxxx (talk) 12:45, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, seriously now. We have now articles for all the basics of the different rasenshuriken, but not articles for them. Also, Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan is listed as parent jutsu - but this is wrong. "Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasenshuriken" is a parent technique, but not the other one. We could do the same and list Wind Release: Rasengan as a parent jutsu. but you see why that would be wrong? the rasenshuriken versions are what's important here and if it's okay to presume what they are made out of like scale powder and water release and steam and ink and so on, why is it so impossible to create an article for the shuriken variants as well??? Iloveinoxxx (talk) 11:01, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Scale Powder
Since some of you do not seem to understand this: The Hiding in Scale Powder technique is a technique which uses scale powder. The Rasen Shuriken here uses Scale Powder, too. But not for hiding in it. So the Hiding technique is not the one used for the Rasen Shuriken. Create a general Scale Powder Creation page if you want (similar to Ink Creation), but please do not add the Hiding technique to the article. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:31, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Same goes for the acid. Also, there is no bubble ninjutsu used here. Where do you guys see it? • Seelentau 愛 議 21:13, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Just want to point out, if you are going to change the links in the article to a article that doens't exist, it is good form to actually make the article first. Otherwise it comes across as lazy and unnecessarily dick-ish. Also, don't see why you removed the name (which I'm sure I got right) and made Scale Powder into the unnamed "Scale Powder Creation" but whatever, not like I was wrong though.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:16, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * But I'm not a creator, I'm a corrector. :/ I added the Creation part because of Ink Creation. It's basically all the same. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:17, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * As am I, and yet when I went ahead and made the article for Scale Powder. I'm just saying, please don't stick a red link in an article then come and tell someone else to remove the red link. It's not nice.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:21, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm curious: What's the reason for thinking it's acid and not bubbles? ~SnapperTo 23:00, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Shouldnt someone add Scale Powder Creation to Naruto's Jutsu page ?

If they made the page to... ?

How do we know Chomei's rasenshuriken is scale powder? I am looking at the picture and I fail to see the reference to scale powder. Chomei's rasenshuriken is the second one from the lower right, correct? The rasenshuriken goes from right to left from 1 to 9. I apologize but I fail to see the scale powder in the jutsu. ShadowVillage999 (talk) 02:22, August 8, 2014 (UTC)ShadowVillage999
 * Snapper, bubbles were never related to Saiken before, so there's no reason to believe that they're related now.
 * Shadow, we don't know. I added it because Wind Release wouldn't make any sense, since the normal Rasen Shuriken uses it. The only other special ability Chomei has is scale powder. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:07, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Thinking about it some more, maybe I'm wrong and there really is no scale powder used here. The first scale powder technique was called a Hiden. Why would it be a hiden, if it's a tailed beast's ability? • Seelentau 愛 議 12:11, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Matianu.alexandruionut (talk) 12:28, August 8, 2014 (UTC) Hey there.... Shouldnt we also put the Steam ninjutsu and Acid Creation on Naruto's jutsu page ? Since is not there.... But the pages were already made.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Acid_Creation http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Steam_Ninjutsu


 * @Seelentau: Who knows. Why require the use of steam armor when the tailed beast just makes it? Know now the logic behind Kishimoto's decisions. Just troll with it. Either way, the only thing it can be based on what little we know of Chomei is scale powder (basing off Fu's one technique and supplement material, read; games.)
 * @Matianu: Probably.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:31, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * To regulate the steam and to boost the attack speed. Fu's one technique was a Hiden, Hiden are no Biju abilities. The games don't count. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:38, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course they don't count until we want them to. Still, it exists and it has more weight than our fan-based assumptions of what Chomei can or cannot do. Unless of course you want us to go with the "we have no idea so can't assume nothing". To which point i'll just sigh and leave this discussion now and save us both the trouble.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:43, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's just that the game developers probably don't know more than we do. They're assuming that the scales are part of Chomei, while the manga label them as Hiden... • Seelentau 愛 議 12:47, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Since we literary haven't got the slightest clue what a black core with white tornado-like substance around it could be, it's just scales until it's not scales :P I added "?" there but Ulti found that stupid, so rather scales which may be wrong than "we don't know" I guess--Elveonora (talk) 14:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * And that's exactly what's wrong with the wiki. You all seem to think that [admitting we don't know yet] is worse than [writing down possible wrong information]. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:59, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * On the other side. We joyfully ignore things we don't like. (Hey a different media except paper has shown us something. It's not true and damn them for trying to deceive us!) Because honestly if we didn't use our brains and just went "we don't know so say nothing" half the wiki would be empty and we'd really only have as much info as the last databook.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:04, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Elveonora, didn't you have claims that the black core one was from Saiken and the bubbling one is from Chomei? I tried doing some research on what those "bubbles" could be (assosiated with insects, mainly moths because of the principal of Scale Powder), but I couldn't find anything. After you claimed that I tried looking into the picture more closely and saw a thing that really threw me off into your direction - the black core one doesn't have sparkles, which is a property of Scale Powder.--Omojuze (talk) 15:12, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, the one with black core and tornado is on slug's side while the one you label acid bubbles is on the bug's, but Seel said it doesn't make sense and I kinda agree, but yeah, it's closer to slug--Elveonora (talk) 15:19, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Sooo what do we do? I actually deleted the German article for Chomei's Rasenshuriken and added a trivia note to this technique's article, saying that it's unclear what exactly Chomei provided. Wanna go with that? • Seelentau 愛 議 15:31, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * As can be seen <ಠ_ಠ> the one at the top with "bubbles" is Chomei's, while the bottom one with black core tornado is Saiken's do with that what you will--Elveonora (talk) 15:34, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I still say go with scales. It would be brain dead stupid to ignore the little we can gather on what Chomei can do, no matter where it comes from, and only really serves to make us look like the group of incompetent editors with our heads up our collective asses, more so than we already do. But we've all said our piece, let the community decide.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:42, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I couldn't, because our uploaded version lacks the above portion with TB heads. Also the "scales" look more like acid to me, more so than the "bubbles" do, the black core could be some alkali BS I'm too stupid for. The bubbles one looks too clear to be acid, slug's acid doesn't look so watery--Elveonora (talk) 15:49, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Scales don't look wattery any less. I don't know... when I read the chapter, I immediately connected those Rasenshuriken to their respective users, the thought of it being the other way around didn't even occur. To me, it was obvious whose is whose, until you came along. Now I'm confused, too. I mean, we still have to resolve if the scales are even part of Chomei's abilities, since the only scale technique was a Hiden and Hiden aren't biju abilities. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:55, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Technically, a tailed beasts chakra nature wouldn't be a kekkei genkai in that sense either, but that's besides the point. Unless our article on Hiden is wrong, a Hiden move is a secret technique that is passed down orally from gen to gen in certain regions or clans. As somewhat recent revelations that jinchuriki tend to come from families or close to something, it would not be super far off base that the use of the scale powder would be developed into a Hiden technique that is passed down from jinchuriki to jinchuriki or some such. So yeah, while the technique that is using the scale powder is Hiden, there is room to believe that scale powder is not.
 * Of course that's just my guess and it really hinges on what I know Chomei can do based on what I have seen in a video game (which of course instantly flags it to everyone but me.)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:00, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * While I understand what you are saying, a previous jinchuriki cannot pass on secrets to the next/current jinchuriki because they die when the tailed beast is extracted from them. Maybe the technique was passed down to Fu before Chomei was extracted from the previous jinchuriki but we don't know.
 * One reason I believe the scale powder is unrelated to Chomei is because insect scales refers to Lepidoptera (moths and butterflies) while Chomei is a rhinoceros beetle. I know that kind of logic doesn't mean jack in the Naruto Universe but it was just an idea I had. ShadowVillage999 (talk) 13:03, August 9, 2014 (UTC)ShadowVillage999

What in case I'm right that you guys have switched which shuriken belongs to whom? The top one being Chomei's while the bottom Saiken's? In case I'm right, that would mean we have no idea about what both of them are made of.--Elveonora (talk) 16:17, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * You are most likely wrong. Here you can compare Saiken's to Naruto's gas, they're the same. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:32, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Excellent analysis. The anime screwed up with that one, didn't notice the bubbles--Elveonora (talk) 19:05, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * So I finally managed to convince you for once? Gotta mark this day in my calendar. :D • Seelentau 愛 議 19:17, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, I consider everything that comes from your mouth and of others, I'm not like this but you must admit the placement is a little off, bottom shuriken is more to the right--Elveonora (talk) 19:24, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, but Saiken's shuriken is more near to Kokuo's than Chomei's is. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:35, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Errors with jutsu ?
Matianu.alexandruionut (talk) 13:07, August 9, 2014 (UTC) Is there something wrong with naruto's page ? 2 days and some skills are not displaying and the old eruption jutsu is missing.... WTH ?
 * What eruption? And I can see acid and scales there--Elveonora (talk) 13:14, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Discription
I believe if we make a description for each Rasenshuriken, the article will be better. I am not sure how everyone saw Scale Powder with Choumei's RS, but what is obvious is the small tornados hovering around a core made of unknown substance. If, for example, it was like this:

Matatabi: the core made of the same blue fire Matatabi's body is made of.

Choumei: The core made of unknown black substance with small winds around the Rasenshriken

And so on, just putting the beast and whatever release doesn't look good to me, let's hear your thoughts.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 15:34, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

If you decided to look further up the talk page you would see this topic being discussed already. --Questionaredude (talk) 15:55, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * I meant describing each Rasenshuriken in the same article, not creating an article for each.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 16:33, August 9, 2014 (UTC)