Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-142748-20150410212019/@comment-142748-20150413063801

Rachin123 wrote: They are powerful weapons nonetheless. But they aren't invincible weapons. That's the point I'm making. They're role was so minor, its obvious Black Zetsu was just exaggerating to introduce more pathos to the series. Hashirama used 1 genjutsu and that was countered too. No, it wasn't countered. Hiruzen was completely powerless in it and he couldn't break it. This is from a man with a 5 in genjutsu just like Itachi. All he could do was attack blindly and hope he hit Hashirama and Tobirama or guard himself while getting his ass kicked. And you are again insinuating Hashirama has high genjutsu despite never showing much skill to make it seem so. He caught a Hokage in a genjutsu, said Hokage wasn't able to break it and could only stop it by yanking out Hashirama's soul. Seems to be pretty broken and high level to me, with Hashirama having high skill to use it. Also Itachi wasn't trying to destroy Sasuke's mind or anything. ...Tsukuyomi can't break or destroy someone's mind. It can just inflict enough mental trauma to make them pass out. And that's completely false of you to say "...all of Itachi's genjutsu have been easily broken, resisted or countered." You are making up stuff. I'm not. A clone of Kakashi was able to break Itachi's genjutsu. Kurenai was able to break Itachi's genjutsu before he could even land a kick. Killer B was able to break Itachi's genjutsu before his shuriken could even hit! A greenhorn Naruto was able to resist it to the point where Itachi commended him!

Not once has Itachi's genjutsu been shown to be unbeatable. If a greenhorn Naruto can nearly break it, Hashirama should be able to break through any of Itachi's genjutsu considering he'd have faced a superior genjutsu user. I'm gonna say you're being bias. Don't toss stones if you live in a glass house, man. You have shown little to no proof, specifically for him beating Itachi in genjutsu. Other than being a member of the Senju clan which trains their shinobi in all three disciplines, Hashirama having high chakra control and intelligence (two of Genjutsu's counters), and having fought superior genjutsu users. Hashirama has his wood release. Itachi has his fire and water jutsus. ...Hashirama knows all five elements, Yin Release, Yang Release, and Wood Release. Itachi's fire and water techniques are miniscule in comparison. He can level the field with wood. ...Madara's battlefield-wide Katons were unable to turn one of Hashirama's normal Mokuton, which cover the entire Lightning Desert, in a sea of flames. Yet Itachi's tiny Katons and Suitons can do the same? Seriously? Itachi can chop it easily. Itachi's best Katon can't even burn down a normal forest, why should he be able to do so against a battlefield-sized Mokuton? Even if Hashirama absorbed Hus Susanoo, Itachi has shown more speed, has other types of ninjutsu. Itachi has shown inferior speed to Hashirama. And don't you remember the effects of Susanoo on Itachi? It hurts his entire body, zaps his strength and lessens his reactions. If Hashirama absorbs it, he's done. And Hashirama will not break Tsukuyomi. He shoudl be able to resist it though. Sasuke broke it as Itachi said because you'd a close blood relative and Sasuke being real good in genjutsu explains it. No genjutsu is truly unbreakable, rachni. All can be broken. And that was a hyperbolic statement. Although I believe Itachi broke it but made it seem like Sasuke did but that's speculation although more believable than Hashirama getting a 5 in genjutsu. Manga and databook said Sasuke legitimately broke Tsukuyomi, so you're wrong here. And no its not, Hashirama was able to catch the strongest Kage of the time in a genjutsu that couldn't be broken despite Hiruzen's on 5 in genjutsu. You're underestimating him. I am not overestimating Itachi the slightest. You claimed Itachi's small Katons can burn down Hashirama's entire forests. That's NOT overestimation of Itachi's abilities? He's not even a favs character of mines at all but he is a character you don't like so you may be underrating him and overrating Hashirama without his Sage Mode. I dislike Itachi, but I'm not underestimating or underrating him. Hashirama without his Sage Mode was fighting Madara and Kurama at the same time and and even outran a fricking Bijudama. Yet I'm overrating his abilities, seriously, when he has feats like this? He ain't dodging Amaterasu either. Doesn't need to. Like Nagato he can sense the build up of chakra and block with a Mokuton which will absorb it. And with this, I take my leave, its clear here that this is going to be an run on thing. I gave reasons, good ones, with "facts" so good luck with your discussion Super. You gave no facts dude. Your reasoning was shoddy, and your counters were lacking. You even forgot Hashirama mastered all five chakra natures and yin and yang, and acted even though he put a Kage in a genjutsu that couldn't be broken he's not a accomplish genjutsu user with high chakra control and intelligence.

I'll consider this a concession.