Talk:Butsuma Senju

Naming
What was wrong with Senju Father? Hashirama's Father makes it sound like he's only what he's called. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 06:32, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Is there enough information on this person for him to have an article ? All we know is that he's someone's father, I'd hardly call that noteworthy for an article. --Speysider Talk Page 07:59, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * We know he is Hashirama's father, as Tobirama stated that. We know a little about his personality and beliefs, based on how he acted in the chapter, I'd say we have enough to make a reasonable article for now. Stop putting deletion tags on everything you think doesn't make a sufficient article. It just needs the rest of the information from the chapter added in. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 08:57, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Other articles have been tagged for deletion even when they have more information than this article. I have every right to put a deletion tag on if I feel the article does not have enough information about said person. If you want to continue your argument on this, take it to my talkpage. --Speysider Talk Page 11:05, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's more suited for him to be called "Senju Father", since he is not only the father of Hashirama, but of Tobirama and Itama as well. "Hashirama's, Tobirama's and Itama's Father" is way too long, so "Senju Father" is about right in my eyes.Norleon (talk) 12:32, February 27, 2013 (UTC) The last gut who edited his page forgot to add Tobirama in his list of sons 180.194.239.212 (talk) 11:55, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Senju Leader
Where was it stated that he really was the one in charge of the clan?Norleon (talk) 12:38, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to know where exactly he was identified as the clan's leader. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:13, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I've removed the speculation from the article until it can be given a proper reference on this discussion. --Speysider Talk Page 15:15, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apart from the fact that positions like these are hereditary, I can say I at least added that out of convenience of giving him an intro. However, if you want to leave it out for something else, go ahead.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:00, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * It won't be mentioned on the article unless it is confirmed. Otherwise, your just inserting speculation that doesn't need to be there. --Speysider Talk Page 16:01, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

From the latest chapter, it seems that Hashirama and Madara inherited the role. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:55, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

The only thing that would suggest the young Senju and Uchiha's fathers being leaders of their respective clans would be the mention of the two being evenly strong--Elveonora (talk) 20:09, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Being strong isn't what determines whether or not you become clan head. Its inheritance. And it didn't say Hashirama and Madara took over their clans through strength, they just became the clan heads. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 20:26, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

"With their newly obtained power, the two brothers became the head of the clan, with Madara becoming its leader" and "Madara used the power of his Mangekyō Sharingan to take control of the clan, with Izuna at his side" unless it's editor's speculation, it must have been mentioned as such, or not?--Elveonora (talk) 20:34, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I'm talking about the latest chapter. And while that talks about Madara, what about Hashirama? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 20:38, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

"Wood Release" "Senju of the forest" and how does the latest chapter prove the fathers being leaders other than their strength?--Elveonora (talk) 20:44, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Anyone else want to add their opinion on this? Because right now its just a two person discussion thats not going anywhere. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 22:39, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think this is one of those cases where the obvious isn't stated. I fully believe him and Tajima to be the head of their clans. When Butsuma asked Hashirama about Madara, the talk about him jeopardizing the entire clan, and the way he gave him a mission was very leader-like. I understand why people would rather hold off listing him and Tajima as clan leaders, but I particularly don't see a big deal about it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

It perhaps also kinda mirrors with Naruto's father being a "king" and Sasuke's leader of their clan.--Elveonora (talk) 13:00, March 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * As Omni said: obvious just not stated. Leadership is something that you inherit in clans from what we've seen. Examples Fugaku and Itachi, Chōza and Chōji, even Hashirama's becoming the leader of his clan speaks for itself. There are subtleties to suggest that both Tajima and Butsuma were their respective clans' leaders (Hashirama's convo with Butsusma and Tobirama) but whether or not people want to go off that or simply wait for concrete evidence, is up to them. I can go either way.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:10, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pro listing them as leaders, I just always want to discuss things first because my opinion alone is irrelevant, the majority decides and if there's no one to decide, the most credible person left do so ._. There's enough subtle evidence, and perhaps we can make a trivia before people start to question it that "since such position is inheritable" etc. but again, it's stated in Madara and Izuna's articles that they took control of their clan with the power of Mangekyou, not inherited it, so :-/ --Elveonora (talk) 13:15, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

More evidence: in mangastream's translation of the new chapter, Tobirama talks of Hashirama doing things like their father. This implies he was their leader. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 15:36, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I guess the latest chapter subtly confirms it--Elveonora (talk) 15:59, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * not that convinving

Family
In family, it only lists Hashirama and Itama. Tobirama's missing 196.42.1.195 (talk) 11:25, March 6, 2013 (UTC)Anonomys.

Shouldn't Mito be listed as a Daughter-in-law or are we ignoring those kind of relations? VlenFlyheight (talk) 07:57, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Daughter in law isn't an option for that text box, it only allows for parents or other relationships meaning husband or wife, so she isn't listed there as she isn't his daughter by birth.120.144.203.35 (talk) 08:55, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't list in-laws. We generally list only blood relationships in which the kinship between two individuals is known, the only exception to those being spouses, and more rarely when it's the case, significant others. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:41, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

How do you know he's dead ?