Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-26388300-20160524034125/@comment-26773508-20160525014441

9 Arts dragon wrote: @BakumatsuWarrior

My memory is pretty foggy on Hiruzen is he that powerful? I only put Minato there because of his speed ,battle tactics and ridiculous potential as shown when he used sage mode in the war otherwise I'd have put others it's hard to gauge the ppl revived by Edo since they are confirmed restrained of there Fullpower not sure Tobirama is that powerful either he was overwhelmed by gold and silver bros I have bellow few Akatsuki top tiers Hiruzen has no great feats, except his mastery of all 5 elements. And personally, I don't really care about the character. However, one of the translations of Databook 4 (I think it was by Omnibender, though I can't seem to find it in google now) clearly stated that Hiruzen showed more talent than Tobirama at a young age. Now a straightforward interpretation of this would be that Prime Hiruzen>Prime Tobirama. I cautiously endorse this interpretation.

However, a more nuanced analysis might consider the suggestion that talent in itself might not be enough to give Hiruzen a victory against Tobirama. It's possible that Tobirama, being a Senju, had more chakra and was more durable than Hiruzen. We've also seen Tobirama's intellect against TTJ Obito. Combine that with the fact that he invented at least 3 revolutionary and game-changing techniques in modern shinobi history (Kage Bunshin, Flying Raijin and Edo Tensei) and we clearly have a monster of intellect. Hiruzen is smart too. He's The Professor, after all. But we don't know who's smarter. By DB-4 hype, Hiruzen is most probably better in ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu. But it is possible that Tobirama's intellect might secure him a victory in a death match. But considering DB-4 hype, I'd give the victory to Hiruzen more often than not.

Now regarding Tobirama's strength, there is a lot of inconsistency in the manga. He lost to Kinkaku and Ginkaku, and was killed by the Kinkaku Squad. But it's been stated that even Hashirama was killed during the First War as well. Somehow, a demi-god was killed by a bunch of fodders, or a bunch of elite ninjas who were still fodders compared to Hashi. Go figure.

Yet when Tobirama was reanimated during the Fourth War, he almost broke free of Orochimaru's control. The only reason he couldn't break free was because Oro had magic Hashi cells. Edo Itachi had to resort to Kotoamatsukami to break free of Kabuto's control, who as we know was controlling dozens of other powerful Edo Zombies. So that gives us some perspective of how strong Tobirama actually is, although it may not be exactly accurate.

The second clue to Tobirama's strength was given when he raised just one finger in anger (at EMS Sasuke). Just a slight raise of his finger caused so much disturbance that a strong wind was blowing out from the vicinity of Tobirama's body.

The third clue is his fight against MS Izuna, and by extension, his fight against the Uchiha his whole life. That feat explains itself.

The fourth clue is his performance against TTJ Obito. His handling of the situation was incredibly impressive. He was very quick to figure out many of Juubito's weaknesses; he was able to take charge of the team of Edo Minato, Kurama Mode Naruto and EMS Sasuke very effectively; and most of all, he even used Juubito's own Truth Seeking Ball against him. In case we forget, a TBB completely nullifies ninjutsu and can kill an Edo Zombie. Yet Tobirama had the skills to make his kage bunshin safely catch the TBB and attack Juubito with it, without the bunshin disintegrating on contact with the TBB. That's a very impressive feat.

And while Tobirama's feat isn't nearly enough, what little feats he has shown easily puts him among the greatest in the series. His hype is strong too. Although whether he belongs in this Top 5 list is a debatable issue. But I'd certainly put him in the Top 7 at the very least.

EDIT : @KILLERBEE479 The OP clearly says God-tier are excluded, so I don't know what you're on about. And Nagato is weak? Are we reading the same manga? Because it took the combined efforts of Edo Itachi, KCM Naruto and Bee to defeat Edo Nagato. And that too because Nagato was crippled. Who knows what Nagato would have done to those three if he had his legs. And while you might argue that Edo Itachi could have defeated crippled Edo Nagato with his intellect, you still can't deny that a crippled Edo Nagato bitchslapped one PERFECT Jinchuriki and another Semi-Perfect Jinchuriki in like 5 seconds. Yeah sure, that's "weak" as fuck -_-