Talk:Dekai

Appearance
Assuming the young man with slitted eyes in the original flashback and this guy are the same - and I generally assume they are - should that be noted in the trivia anywhere, given how little they look alike now?--LastationLover5000 (talk) 16:30, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Why do you think they look different? The only real difference is that his skin is darker than it is in chapter 122, probably because that's how the anime depicted him. His hair was a light color in chapter 122 and it's still light (white on the color pages) in the Gaiden. ~SnapperTo 17:13, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not assuming they look different, they do look different. But I am also still just assuming it's the same bloke.--LastationLover5000 (talk) 15:30, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It’s the same kid. The anime version only has him with the dark hair color. You seem to forget Kishi's art style wasn’t how it looks today back then. There weren’t any "black" characters back then. OmegaRasengan (talk) 22:07, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying it isn't the same kid LOL. I'm merely saying the difference in appearance is worth noting. That's it.--LastationLover5000 (talk) 15:30, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Second vs Third War debate
Since we are in an edit war over the events of the recent one shot being either taking place during the second or third world war, I seek consensus beyond me and the person I am edit warring with. Umishiru (talk) 16:49, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

it’s the 2nd Ninja war the 2nd ninja war starts when Sannin are 24 and mianto is 10 then Sannin fight hanzo at 27 and jiraiya Trains Ame 3 orphans for 3 years and leaves thm at 30 and returns to the leaf, mianto is 16.

the 3rd Shinobi war starts when mianto is 20, stated by Chiyo the 3rd shinobi war started 20 years ago she says this when Gaara at 16 was kidnapped and Kakashi at 30 helps rescue him, kakashi was 10 when 3rd ninja war started him and obito and Rin joined team Minato at 9 when mianto was 19 and the 3rd ninja war ended when mianto was 23 and kakashi was 13. Minato knew rasengan before the 3rd ninja war.

also you can tell this is the 2nd ninja war because of the outfits.

also we can see Asuma, Kurenai, Guy and obito and Kakashi in manga all except kakashi are still in academy. Guy graduated academy at 7 and Obito, Kurenai and Asuma graduated at 9, kurenai and Asuma are 1 year older than Guy, Obito and Kakashi.

Kakashi graduated academy at 5 and became chunin at 6.

likely kakashi is 6 and Genin during Manga and will be becoming chunin soon. he’s likely off duty which is why he isn’t wear head band.

user SilentWolfKills

We don't know how old Minato was when the third war started or when his tutelage under Jiraiya started in reference to the wars. All we know is the length of the periods of peace between and after the three wars, but not how long those wars lasted. Also the leaf ninja aren't seen using green flak jaks until after the second war. We have stils from each war, so we can see a clear change between each of the three in terms of the leaf village at least. If we go by the anime, Suna was already pulled into the Third war during the Third's reign and they had to cut their search early for the third because of it. His death was not the cause, the cause was given as the nation's weakening which led to border skirmishes and that eventually blew up into the third war. Han & Roshi being out in the field lines up with them gaining fame for their ninjutsu styles and lines up with the villages using their jinchuriki outside their villages, given that war was described as a war of attrition, and given the use of child soldiers by kohona, linking back to a lack of sufficient personnel, that would underestanbly mean that Kakashi and crew graduated during the war and were forced too early out in the field as we can see how well the battle of Kannabi Bridge went.Umishiru (talk) 17:24, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

yes we do know what age he was. Chiyo states when Jakashi is 30 the 3rd war stated 20 years ago that makes Kakashi 10 and we know it ended when Kakashi was 13 and Minato 20, when the 3rd war started Minato at 20 fought Ay and Killer Bee.

Minato was 10 when the 2nd war started the Sannin were 24 the war was still going on when jiraiya left the Ame 3 orphans at 30 after training them for 3 years he returned to the leaf at 30 and Minato was 16 at this time.

this manga clearly takes place during the 2nd shinobi war again you can tell by the outfits.

User SilentWolfKills


 * I would advise not using characters' graduation ages as proof, because the math has been shown before to not work. Focus on other evidence.
 * I personally find Tsunade's presence in the Gaiden curious. We know Dan died during the Second, and because of his death Tsunade couldn't continue working as a medic. Considering how bad Minato's wound was, I imagine healing him (because why else would she be there?) would have been difficult if it takes place after Dan's death.
 * For Umishiru, there are two styles of green flak jackets: one without pockets, seen during the deaths of Dan and Nagato's parents, and one with pockets, seen from the Third and onward. The Gaiden uses the version without pockets. ~SnapperTo 18:16, 17 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Dan and Nawaki died when Tsunade is 24, Tsunade fought Hanzo at 27 and doesn’t leave the village until after the 3rd ninja war, she leaves with Shizune.
 * if we look at ages from stated like jiraiya age teaching Ame 3 orphans and age he leaves also the age Chiyo states 3rd ninja war starts which we know Minato is 20 also in manga Kakashi states he was 6 when becoming chunin.
 * the 2nd war was still going on when Minato was 16 and Kakashi 6, jiraiya left Ame 3 orphans at 30 which the 2nd war was still going on.
 * User SilentWolfKills


 * Most of these ages you're providing are never given in the series and the few that are don't align with each other very well. So stop using ages as arguments; use other evidence. ~SnapperTo 18:33, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Can't be the second war. Kakashi and Guy wouldn't have been born yet. Also, Kishimoto most likely intentionally chose the Iwa jinchuuriki because Konoha and Iwa were in most conflict during the Third War. Tsunade being there is probably just an inconsistency, just like how Kushina was somehow unable to leave the barrier in Konoha without being possessed by Kurama despite us knowing full well that Kushina was a kunoichi at some point, and was clearly shown at several times outside the village with no visible repercussions, such as like how Kumo abducted her as a genin. BerserkerPhantom (talk) 18:39, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The manga said the previous war. The previous war was the third. Kakashi's chunin exams were Kohona only leading to the fact that he and his cohort graduated and were genin during the war since you aren't inviting shinobi from other villages into yours when you are in a world wide war and don't need your up and coming talent assassinated. As for age & rank, that means nothing, Tenzo/Yamato graduated at 6 and became a chunin at the same age. This war probably started out like the previous, but active use of jinchuriki in the front lines could have worn down the man power of the villages hit over time. This leads to Kakashi & crew and other too young for war types to get pulled in by the time Kakashi becomes jonin because of their purported genius & the need for personnel. The mission he goes on turns the tide of war and it ends soon afterwards. As for the ages to war stuff, gonna need sources on that one. Kakashi graduated at 6 and became jonin at 12. That puts the length of the third at 6 years at minimum. Plenty of time for Han & Roshi to wreck havok and make Kohona desperate. That being said, I am gonna need some sources on the age to war rations you are using, mine are off the character info boxes.


 * You are right on the green being used as early the second, but I wonder if that is the anime taking creative license. Also it looks like Tsunade is wearing the classical grey armor of the era. Could also be that in that the leaf had two outfits for chunin and above to wear, the green jacket with scrolls for non-war use and the battle armor for war time. Given that Team 6 is switching to green battle armor, this could be a hint at the two styles merging, or if the leaf are having material & supply issues, along with the associated personnel issues during the third. Perhaps leaf shinobi were forced later in the war to use the green cloth with scroll inserts out of necessity & that became the standard all the way into the fourth. Given that we know that Kushina's village was destroyed at some point prior to this, where ever they got the materials for ninja armor from or whoever made them were either killed or cut off during the third war. Either way, the leaf seems to have abandoned armor by the end of the third. The fact that team 6 is still using ninja armor in this chap might indicate that we are seeing early into the third war.Umishiru (talk) 18:49, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

BerserkerPhantom the ages do work the 2nd Neji is war started when Minato was 10 and Sannin 24, Kakashi, Rin, Obito and Guy were born Asuma and Kurenai are 1 year older than Kakashi. Sannin fights Hanzo at 27, Minato is 13, Jiraiya teaches Ame 3 Orphans for 3 years leaves at 30 when Nagato is 10, Minato is 16 and Kakashi is 6, Asuma is 7, the 2nd shinbi war is still going on when jiraiya left the same 3 orphans. the 3rd ninja war starts when Minato is 20, Sannin 34, Kakashi 10, Asuma 11, the 3rd shinobi war ended when Sannin were 37, Mianto 23, Kakashi 13 and Asuma 14.

User SilentWolfKills

the ages do work they have been said and shown because you disagree doesn’t mean it’s not true, it’s a fact.

User SilentWolfKills


 * Fourth databook gives Kakashi and Obito's ages as 31, meaning they're the same age. Kakashi's chunin promotion age is given as 6, Obito's Academy graduation age is given as 9. Chapter 599 shows that Obito and Kakashi were already teammates when Kakashi became chunin. Therefore, the ages don't work; use other evidence. ~SnapperTo 18:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Let's address another elephant in the room: Tsunade. We know she developed Hemophobia after her brother & Dan's death, and this would prompt her retirement as a shinobi with her leaving the village with Shizune. The thing is we don't know when she actually left the village, adn we knew she took Shizune with her. Shizune is the same age as Kakashi, so either Shizune & Kakashi were born & in the academy during the second and Tsunade ran off after this chapter(Which would mean Dan is still alive during this Minato Gaiden chapter) or Tsunade's hemophobia developed slowly over time and wasn't 100% afraid of blood by the third war and functional enough to do surgery.


 * It's possible she came back to the village and snatched up Shizune, but her inclusion here either suggests we are still in the second war or her hemophobia was still in check enough by the third, and at some point left with Shizune later on. Depending on the period of peace between the second & third wars, if we are saying second, then Kakashi & Shizune should be much older than 31 by shippuden.Umishiru (talk) 19:12, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Umishiru it’s stated Dan and Nawaki died when Tsunade was 24 which was when the 2nd shinobi war started, Tsunade fights Hanzo at 27 and is scene in Minato one shot which is before Minato is 20, jiraiya returns to leaf after training Ame 3 orphans for 3 years he returns to lead at 30 which war is still going on Minato is 16, Minato is 16-18 during manga likely 16 because of it took 3 years and 6 months or so to perfect Rasengan which is stated so the manga he’s likely 16. Tsunade doesn’t leave village until after the 3rd ninja war she leaves with Shizune after the 3rd ninja war ends, Shizune is still in academy she’s the same age as Asuma and Kurenai and she doesn’t become Chunin until she’s 13 and the 3rd ninja war ends when she’s 14, she leaves village with Tsunade when he’s Jonin likely they left when the war ended or the year after but before the 9 tail’s attack happened.

the age do work for one we know Rin and Obito didn’t pass the chunin exam when Kakashi did it was time of war they probably let academy students take chunin exam with there team even if they haven’t graduated yet.

it’s said Chuunin Selection Exam – The Changes of 24 Years

The academy was established as an excellent shinobi training institution during the Second Hokage’s era.

That facility’s symbolic system surely is the Chunin Selection Exams.

Although it’s a test to discover those who’re capable to work as platoon leaders, the contents sometimes reflect the nature of that era and come to change.

Recently, the abilities to collect information and assessing the situation as essential qualities of a Chunin have also become big subjects of evaluation.

However, it was in the middle of the Ninja World War during Kakashi and the others’ era that increasing the fighting strength was more important.

At that time, it was a “training method” to force young people onto the battlefield to master the necessary abilities as a captain in combat.

Second Test – The second exam was largely different from the current one. It was a direct combat of three vs. three.

Third Test – During Kakashi’s era, the third test was a one vs. one fight to test the individual combat abilities.

user SilentWolfKills


 * All age-based arguments will be disregarded because the wiki cannot use them as reliable sources. You are wasting your time by continually using them as evidence. ~SnapperTo 19:04, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

you’re so dumb I can’t believe you actually think the Minato one shot Naruto Gaiden: The whorl Within the Spiral, is during the 3rd ninja war haha, when it’s the 2nd ninja war.

jiraiya is even wearing is 2nd ninja war outfit and minato is wearing a different outfit from his 3rd ninja war outfit the Chunin vest he’s wearing is 2nd war the 3rd ninja war change the flak jacket I can’t even by this is a discussion, Minato is young this is before he’s 20 which is when it’s stated the 3rd ninja war stated in manga, team minsto is formed when he’s 19 year before war, Minato is 16-18 during this time, most likely 16.

it took minato 3 years and 6 months or so to perfect Rasengan which is stated if he started to develop it at 16 while the 2nd ninja war was still going on then the Jutsu would be perfect when he’s 19-20 which he teaches to Kakashi who then creates chidori and shows it of for the 1st time as a Jonin at 12 turning 13 that year and on that day obito is presumed dead and Kakashi gets sharigan.

User SilentWolfKills


 * Don't go around calling people dumb. Either address the points they made or concede. Or wait for someone else in your corner to back you up.Umishiru (talk) 19:20, 17 July 2023 (UTC)


 * For the record, I think the Gaiden is set during the Second because of the points I raised in my first comment. Which means I agree with SilentWolfKills. And yet somehow, even despite agreeing with him, I find the ages he's throwing around completely worthless. Which is why he should stop bringing them up.
 * Realistically, I don't think the wiki can say confidently which war the Gaiden is set during, so I imagine the eventual compromise will be to not say one or the other. ~SnapperTo 19:34, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * True, we don't even know if a war is going on at this point. Could just be a skirmish or something. Maybe rather than posting the conflict under one of the wars, we could say something like "At some point in the past "insert person name here" & team six confronted Han & Roshi that led to them fleeing the battle or something like that. The biggest issue is the plot hole of Kushina losing control, but the fourth databook said she never did. Oh Kishi, you messy messy author.Umishiru (talk) 19:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Minato says on page 25 that they're in the middle of a war, but there's no clear sign of it being a world war. So the wiki may need to use, "During a war with Iwagakure ..." and leave it at that. ~SnapperTo 20:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the splash text (unfortunately not present in the official English translation) is meant to indicate it is a world war. As for the vests, I think it could just be a transition betwixt the armor seen during the second war and the more traditional armor seen later during the third war, such as when Minato fought the A-B Combo. Id est, I think it is just early during the war, showing a progression. Arcadia warlic (talk) 10:37, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The fact that the splash text says 'previous war' would indicate the Third War, as the most recent war we, the audience, have seen, is the Fourth. Additionally, the databooks state Han became renowned as a jinchūriki in the Third War, and here we see him, as a jinchūriki, on the front lines fighting. While I can't check this, I don't think Jiraiya even had his cel during the Second war.--LastationLover5000 (talk) 15:29, 18 July 2023 (UTC)