Talk:Zetsu

Split the page Part 2
As I said in Part 1, we should split the page. Here's why: In Chapter 521, page 4, Madara referred "White Zetsu" and "Black Zetsu". Yatanogarasu 21:31, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * That would just make it more difficult to refer to Zetsu prior to chapter 450. ~SnapperTo 22:09, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. While his two halves might have two very different personalities, they are still the same Zetsu. Read about multiple personality disorder and you'll understand. Cicaneo (talk) 22:18, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Games
how many games did Zetsu appear User:Gamma Venom 567

How to Handle the White Zetsu Army
Right now he's listed as not having been in combat, but now that some of his White Sides have been in combat that's not exactly the case. They're both part of him and also separate and multiple, so I'm not exactly sure how to write that. Also, should 'White Zetsu Army' be in his teams? It's kinda true. Upgrade of the abilities section at least is needed. ZeroSD (talk) 05:47, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there is a clear difference between Zetsu's white side and the 100.000 White Zetsu. It seems a good idea to me to keep them as separate as possible to avoid confusion. —ShounenSuki (talk 06:33, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, an army Zetsu is merely a white-half that's kept separate and can be replaced, eventually plus some boosting from Kabuto. Come to think of it, the Zetsu at the Kage meeting still had the half-face thing so that one wasn't an 'army Zetsu' per se. So our ignorance of his ability to fight is mostly black-half. In any case, they are his jutsu/body/whatever.ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * They might be similar, but the army Zetsu have (or haven't) shown several things that make them distinct from Zetsu himself.
 * They can open their bodies like flytraps.
 * They don't seem to have personalities or even true consciousness.
 * They have complete bodies.
 * They are powered up by the Shodai clone.
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 06:50, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * True. So the only normal White Zetsu we've seen is the one at the Kage meet. ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

unsensable
i truly dont see what iss wrong with zetsu not beiing able to be sensed and that he is the land itself in the ability corner


 * Because that is a consequence of Mayfly, which is already explained. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

mayfly talk about merging with the earth,not to be the land itself--178.118.121.7 (talk) 20:28, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

If he merges with it, he becomes it. If not, it's something that will be further clarified in upcoming chapters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

it doesn't exactly looks like his mayfly power,when he becomes the land itself,i think it is something we should note --The tyrant kuma (talk) 20:32, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Personality
First paragraph under personality: "the black half is more serious and intelligent while the white half is carefree, easygoing, and seems to enjoy toying with others".

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "enjoy[s] toying with others" - playfulness? Sadism? What scene is this inference based upon? I don't mean to be nit-picky here, I just want some clarification. Zetsu is a mysterious enough character as it is. Cicaneo (talk) 03:24, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

zetsu's root thing
I'm not entirely sure how to even word this on the page, but I also wanted to get a general opinion about it before I changed anything. Currently it says: Zetsu can also use it to extend roots underground through which he can communicate with his other half should they be separated. What I noticed in the pic though was the motion lines, where he came out of the ground. It seems to me what he is doing is more like using the white-zetsu material remaining that forms his other leg to extend the roots and actually the white zetsu shown growns out from the end of those roots. In other words, that white zetsu wasn't already there to connect with, but grew out of the root's end to communicate. That would explain the motion lines like he was just coming out of the ground, and it would certainly fit in with what's been seen of the white zetsu's abilities, to form so many clones like that. I do think it should be changed from what it currently says, but I want to run it by people since it would also change the meaning of what's being said 98.71.99.102 (talk) 01:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * Remember that they have one body and the black half isn't black entirely. Neither do i think it was a clone as never seen a clone of Zetsu with the flytrap appendages before and for some reason I think if the black half of Zetsu had made a clone it wouldn't have spoken the "carefree" way it did. From what i saw after extending the roots that "stuff" that came down ran along to another set of roots.--Cerez365™☺ 01:40, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

it did, it connected with the normal tree roots and suddenly started growing along them at what seemed like a greater pace. But the thing about the spikes is a good point. I know he's not totally black though, that was why I was thinking that left leg helps black zetsu keep in touch with other zetsu bodies, because it's still enough to use some of the white zetsu ability. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:14, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

I guess it's fine as it is for the moment, but what peaks my interest is that when his head pops out of the ground it's got those 3 tentacles sticking out of the side of his head leading into the ground. That's a bit different, but I do get the point about the spikes. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:27, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Those distorted attached things are always, there. Check any the concept of Zetsu at the end of the article. His leg looked like that in the manga and anime as well, and his head also looked a bit like that when he moved around watching Sasuke and Itachi's fight. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:32, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * That normally happens when they use Mayfly technique though.--Cerez365™☺ 02:33, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if you're talking about the spikes that always seem to surround him, those I know are always there, but what I'm talking about is that if you look at the latest chapter there is one picture in particular that clearly shows the ends of the roots that extended from black zetsu's white foot attached to the head of the white zetsu that pops out of the ground. Those have never showed up on his head before. I went back as well and looked at all the other zetsu appearances, and the one that struck me was in chapter 486 when white zetsu went to tell madara they were in trouble, the white zetsu next to sasuke never moved, another white one just appeared next to madara in his hideout, though the same roots couldn't be seen attached to his head, so perhaps that's a black zetsu thing. Since white zetsu's location wasn't shown it could be him the roots connected to so perhaps it's not a clone, but the 486 chapter seems to show white zetsu making a new white zetsu appear somewhere else to relay the info 98.71.99.102 (talk) 13:47, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Wood Release
Chapter 545 Page 3: "Based on how many there are, I would assume they're living plant clones grown from cells harvested from the First Hokage! They're weaker, but can still use Mokuton!" Timeel39 (talk) 16:11, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason you put this here Timeel? —Fmakck (Images 16:13, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I put it in his infobox but someone took it out =P Was I wrong to put it there? Timeel39 (talk) 16:17, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * But can Zetsu himself use Mokuton? Madara did modify the clones. —Fmakck (Images 16:22, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll admit to being a tad confused on that front and would really prefer if we wait for raws or some more direction with this =S--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:25, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, you can never really trust scanlations. —Fmakck (Images 16:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！ I got it from here: http://topmangaspoilers.info/ does that count? It translates roughly as "However weak, they use Wood Release!" (I'm not as proficient as translating from Japanese as others) Timeel39 (talk) 17:07, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Text spoilers are wrong way too often and are unreliable, wait for the raw. —Fmakck (Images 18:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the RAW says exactly the same: 「うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！」 - "Uzumatte yowaikedo Mokuton o tsukaushi". And Timeel's translation is correct, as far as I can see. But I can't imagine how they usw Mokuton. Only because they have the cells? They'd still need Water Chakra and Earth Chakra to mold the Wood Chakra. I think Sakura's just referring to the cells and not to an possible ability to use Mokuton... Seelentau 愛議 02:59, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I always considered that if you have the genes for a certain combination, you will automatically have an affinity for those two. If Zetsu can use Wood Release, by definition, he can also use Earth Release and Water Release. There's no point in, let's say, being able to use Storm Release, but not being able to change your chakra into water and lightning natured chakra to merge them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:06, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, there's no point. But we know that ones affinity lies in his heart and not his cells. Otherwise, Kakuzu wouldn't have all five natures. In the end, this is just one more topic to be solved in the future. Maybe we'll get more information in the upcoming chapter. Seelentau 愛議 03:34, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * The heart is made of cells isn't it? I've always been sceptical about it, because if you have genes, you have them in all your cells. Unless there's a unknown rule which says that the genes which allow such combinations are in the heart alone, I don't see why it should be the heart. The one other big deal about chakra and heart we know about is that it seems to be the most import point in the chakra pathway system, as Kabuto almost killed Naruto by disconnecting his heart from the rest of his body, meaning the Nine-Tails' chakra couldn't kick in and heal him, and because there's where the last of the Eight Gates is located. Unless there's such a "gene responsible for chakra affinity which is expressed only in the heart" thing, every transplanted body part should be able to generate a chakra which leans towards a certain affinity. I'm taking biomedicine, I think I know more about genetics than Kishimoto. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:47, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, first of all, Danzo has used Wood, but not water and wind. Second, Zetsu's body itself may be similar to wood release, being able to merge with plants and flora via Mayfly. Third, his absorption techniques is like plant roots absorbing nutrients. Fourth, his Substitute Technique allows him to alter his cells, "cells" as in Hashirama's Wood Release cells. Will any of these help determine whether Zetsu has Wood Release? 04:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * zetsu or white zetsu in particular is made from hashiramas cells just like yamato. a kekkei genkai is a special ability that comes from ones DNA. regardless of if he originally had water and earth release having wood release means that you atomatically have water and earth releases like danzo he never really showed wood release but he had it and he didint use water or earth release yet you gave him them. also just being able to use two chakra natures or more does not mean one can combine them to create the advanced chakra nature. like kakashi he has water, fire (in anime), earth, and lightning release and preassumably wind release but he cant use the advanced elements of them like boil release, lava release, or storm release. oh and hashirama has not used water or earth release and you give him that. look the bottom line is since has the cells regardless of how weak it is or if he can or has the potential to use water and earth release its still in his DNA.

WellShounensuki's translation is basically the same thing, but I still have to ask, do we list them (Zetsu and the clones) as wood release users now? --Cerez365™ 14:58, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it will hurt to wait until at least one Mokuton ability is demonstrated. Faust-RSI (talk) 15:10, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that description should be enough to say Zetsu has Wood Release, though not enough to mark any of his techniques as Wood Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:29, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * So are we going to do this? From the "it's even more like Yamato's than before" comment, I think it's safe to say that:
 * The original Zetsu (at least White Zetsu) can use Wood Release, due to being made from harvested cells of the First Hokage. If he's the clones are more similar than they were before, it means they were already similar before, meaning Wood Release already in the original.
 * The White Zetsu Army can also use Wood Release, as they're made from the original Zetsu, as well as being powered/modified by Yamato.
 * Anyone disagrees? If so why. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly it's along the same lines of Danzō's use of Mokuton but do you mean are we going to list them as users O_o? because it's already mentioned in their articles.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:33, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * But not in their infoboxes or in the nature transformation article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Real Whitezetsu
How can we be sure he was made from Hashis cells, as Sakura did an autopsy on one of the clones, who were grown from the Hashirama tree/Yamato. For all we know the clones aren't even actual clones of Zetsu, just taking his appearance. (scare tactic)--RexGodwin (talk) 00:37, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sakura also said the Zetsu at the summit had similar DNA to Yamato. The Zetsu clones DNA became more like Yamato's after he was used to power them up.--Deva 27 00:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Yeah now that I Reread that I see. But when did Sakura get that information on the original? He didn't die at the Summit.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:19, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Raikage killed a Zetsu remember? Probably got a sample from that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:26, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah that was the real one. He was shown splitting off from the black one and had been with Sasuke until he came out of the ground infront of the Kages.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still a clone of the original, meaning it has the same DNA. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:40, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean. He's still the real White Zetsu. There's only one real White Zetsu. The one we've seen the most. He was shown using clones, but we know there is an original that is usually attached to the black one. The real one got choked by A, and ge didn't create clones till later.

The Zetsu that the Raikage killed set up a Spore Technique, from which other Zetsu appeared. They're clone-like, but not really clones. Considering they're made from Zetsu, it's reasonable to assume that they must have been able to get something from those. There are two possibilities: either the Zetsu the Raikage killed was a clone, who can use the original's techniques just like him, or it was the original White Zetsu, which would mean that there's no real "original" White Zetsu, meaning that as long as there's a White Zetsu, others can be created from it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:27, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to clear some things out:
 * 1. The Zetsu Raikage "killed" was the real one, because only real White Zetsu has a "normal" flytrap. Apparently, he wasn't killed (as it takes more to kill him than break his neck). Karin saw his chakra after his neck was broken and it is was normal just like everyone else (chapter 464, page 11).
 * 2. The clones from Spore Technique are perfectly normal, they just didn't need to fully grow in the summit, their purpose was to absorb chakra and restrict movements. But as shown in chapter 486, pages 3-4, they are able to form full bodies. So, even if they didn't get the body of real Zetsu during the summit, they got plenty of his spore-clones, which DNA must be the same. Faust-RSI (talk) 09:05, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Karin only started feeling his chakra again when the Spore Technique activated, meaning that the spores drained chakra of those with it and grew itself. Most likely what she detected was Zetsu's chakra from the spores, which began producing chakra after it started draining. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:23, July 4, 2011 (UTC)