User talk:Elveonora

Re: Mandara vs Hiroshima art/animation
Just like The Allied Shinobi Forces Jutsu's episode or even better. — Shakhmoot  (Talk) 16:40, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not good?! Compared to Madara vs. Shinobi Alliance episode, it's not that good.. But I bet that it would be amazing because this episode is an in-house produced unlike today's episode while it's outsourced episode. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 17:08, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

yes we know since it uses byakugan it must be the kekekenkai of byakugan. It might be a technique of gentle fist.

Re: Hamura
Good Morning. Please review the most recent version of Hamura's article.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:27, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Hamura symbol
But Sasuke's symbol is on his left hand, while Naruto's in on his right, check in the previous chapter when Sasuke mentions his Yin Release and Naruto's Yang Release. You can also see the a part of Naruto's chakra shroud covering his hand, and both Sasuke's wrist cloth and a bit of his belt sash in the panel. I think that since Hagoromo himself was able to grant them the two powers, he'd have to have both as well, so it wouldn't make sense for Hamura to have only one. They both would have Yin and Yang. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:33, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Merging Discussion
Hey Elveo, did you ever get a chance to check out the recent discussion over in Will Materialisation's talkpage? It's a discussion on whether or not to merge it with Banbutsu Sōzō. I'd like your opinion on the matter, seeing as that I believe you supported the merger in the past. Anyway, I know that you'd understand when I say that talk pages topics tend to go cold really quickly, without a resolution. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 15:47, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Re:Re:Raws
I have no idea. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:41, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Re: age
I am 21, approaching 22 this December :3 ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:22, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * In America? Whew, that's a seminar my friend. The American Educational System is nothing to boast about hahaha What is it you had a question about? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 15:27, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, it varies slightly from state to state, but generally 1st-6th grades are considered Elementary School, 7th-8th are considered Middle School (though in some states, like Oklahoma, middle school starts in 6th grade; all depends on the state), 9th-12th is high school, and then college is optional. A lot of American colleges offer dual enrollment for high school students who want to gain college credits, which was actually something I did in my senior year of high school. Of course, like where you are, the length of college depends on the person and the degree in question. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 17:18, June 23, 2014 (UTC)

In addition, in many states you can skip grade levels, like I am in middle school and I am literally taking a math course that is two grades above my current grade level.KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 15:43, June 25, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Enton
So what did the new chapter do to our long forgotten discussion about Enton, Enton: Kagutsuchi and Amatersu? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:41, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * I already gave it on the talk page: No, not gonna happen at least until I got the raws and checked wtf they actually say. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:49, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I said something like Amaterasu is Enton and Enton: Kagutsuchi is not only the shape transformation, but also the release of the flames. The latest chapter proves that Sasuke indeed uses Kagutsuchi to shape the flames he created with Amaterasu, meaning Enton: Kagutsuchi is like Amaterasu and shape control in one. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:33, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Still on the road, it's up to you this time. Also, I want them to bow before me, because I was right and no one believed me, once again. :D • Seelentau 愛 議 11:47, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Re: latest chapter opinion
Wasted pages. If Part I look back is what they wanted, they could have tried an updated version of their shuriken feint against Zabuza. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:25, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

It was a pretty decent chapter, I hope I see Sasuke fight Black Zetsu or Kaguya and FINALLY use the power of the Six Paths and hopefully Shinra Tensei.KiritoLevel96Alicization(talk) 20:03, June 25, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Re: your feedback
I'm not participating in any of those discussions as I don't read the manga and don't really care to involve myself in those discussions: the only time I'd step in is to tell people not to be so heated or name calling, other than that I just stick around the forums to keep them readable. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 17:29, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Re: what do you think?
You've always been blunt with me, so I'll be blunt with you. If you ever want to know whether it is yourself that is the problem, or rather others that are the problem, ask yourself this: "Who/what is the common denominator?" Nine times out of ten, the common denominator is the problem. Its up to you to ask yourself who or what that is. I can't answer that for you, but that is a question I ask myself whenever something doesn't seem right about a situation. But that isn't the root of your message.

The root of your message lies with these two phrases: "What if I'm in fact clever and stupid people are just... well, too stupid to comprehend and appreciate my intellect and they simply hate that which they don't understand?" and "I may never know, but I like to convince myself of my superiority." Let's work with these two for a moment and see if we can't come to some sort of revelation here.


 * 1) While it is true that most people (humans in general) hate that which they can't comprehend, this isn't your problem, based on my interactions with you. I understand you. When you lay out a point or a suggestion, I understand what you're conveying or attempting to convey, but that doesn't automatically equal agreement. Your true problem lies in the second point.
 * 2) Word of advice, people (again, in general) don't respond well to those always attempting to assert their superiority. In this modern day of free speech and "tolerance", everyone wants to at least believe in some form of equality, so when you have someone who constantly tries to make themselves seem more superior than the average Joe, it is met with resistance.

Look, I have a feeling this all stems from the recent, rather volatile arguments taking place on the talk pages, so again, I'll be frank with you. The "rejection" you speak of does not come from a possession, or lack thereof, of intelligence. It comes from the way you approach topics. First of all, we all have theories about how this series works. I have only shared with you my theories on anything in this series a handful of times and only because you ask. There is a reason for that. Among a community of fans, pissing matches often kick off because one person believes their theory to be "more accurate" than that of others and arguments start. That is why I always hound you to give me page/chapter/episode references. Many times, unbeknownst to you, I will actually agree with your theory, but completely reject what you're saying because it has no evidence-based foundation, or has a very loose foundation at best.

Take for example Kaguya's forehead eye.


 * You do realize that our current assumption (which I believe to be wrong), that she has only a Rinnegan comes from the speculation that her eye has always been in a Rinnegan form, and never progressed from a Sharingan, along with a vague statement from Sasuke that actually refers to Madara and his IT? That is the foundation for the "facts" you presented me during that argument.


 * Meanwhile, Hagoromo, the woman's son, says he forehead eye directly bears the Sharingan's power. Well of course it does. We just saw, last chapter, Sasuke using Amaterasu from a Rinnegan; or Madara using Susanoo from a Rinnegan. All Rinnegan have the Sharingan's power because all of the Rinnegan (save Hagoromo's) that have been shown began as Sharingan. This is further backed up by Kabuto's statements about the Rinnegan being part of the Sharingan's "natural evolution". And yes, the translation Seel provided that the Rinnegan is "what lies beyond the Sharingan" supports the evolution translation because they mean the same thing.

Looking at that, which argument has more basis? It is clear which one has more evidence and yet look which version was ramrodded down our throat? By yourself and Seel no less.

Can you understand why myself, and a select few others, might be slightly adverse to that? I realize this message is huge, but I'm going to continue. Bear with me. Communication is key to having your side of things accepted or rejected. Telling people that their suggestions are nothing but lucrative fanon, which you do, calling them mentally ill, which you have, or resulting to religious attacks (how you refer to their faith in a topic being akin to some "insane" religious people), which by the way, is a category that includes me, automatically shuts them down. They go flat into rejection mode and you've lost all hopes of conveying your thoughts.

Consider taking a softer approach and being more willing to leave your theories at the door and consider actual facts. I've seen you say that yourself at one point, but I've hardly seen any actual effort on your part to do that. Its something I'm working on as well. Softer approaches are the only way we calm this wiki down. It is, after all, a fictional series we're recording here. We don't need to treat every topic as if the end of existence is upon us. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:06, June 26, 2014 (UTC) Foxie, I agree with you. Elve, attempt to take a softer approach to things. You are an intelligent individual.21:29, June 26, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Re: 681 scans
Yeah, it's out. Some websites have released the latest issue of Shōnen Jump (2014-#30) today and you could get the full chapter from that. — Shakhmoot  (Talk) 15:31, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, Elve-kun :) — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 20:57, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Senpai answered your question on my talkpage. Check it out ^_^ — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 13:34, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

Re: almost forgot about this
Unfortunately Elev-kun no I haven't and yeah me as well. I've tried many times to have the "Shiro" version of Chikara arc DVD box-set which contains this episode but I couldn't get an one. I think we'll see that in the English dubbed episode in the future since they uses the uncut version of Naruto episodes. — Shakhmoot  (Talk) 22:45, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

Re: confirmed
Tobirama made me do a face-wall while reading the chapter. Revive Madara again? Oh sure, because that worked out SO well the first time xD hahaha ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:30, July 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm actually a big fan of Tobirama. He and Danzo are a lot alike, but I feel that Tobirama actually got the job done. I mean, had Madara not been, well, himself, Tobirama would've succeeded in ridding the scourge of the Uchiha clan forever. Itachi and perhaps Shisui were the only saving grace of that clan anyways. I don't know why Danzo always rubs me wrong, but Tobirama is okay in my books. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 18:56, July 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Very true. True enough. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 20:45, July 3, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Probability
None of those Kanji necessarily have to mean Lava. 熔, the Kanji used in Roshi's, Kurotsuchi's, Dodai's and Naruto's case, means to melt, so it would be Melt/Melting(?) Release. However, this Kanji is archaic and not used anymore. Instead, they use 溶, which translates to to dissolve, making Mei's KG a Dissolution Release. The difference between both Kanji is almost none, so that's why we decided not to have two KG. If we'd go by "different name = different technique", we'd probably have two jutsu. Now, the lava part comes from 溶岩 (熔岩), which is the Japanese word for lava but literally simply means Molten Rock. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:31, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gobi doesn't have Boil Release. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:55, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ya, I sure. There's a different between steam and smoke, even though both is created with heat. Smoke doesn't have a pH level, for example (or none that I know of). • Seelentau 愛 議 13:03, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well if Kaguya started all those clans she must be part of them.

(referring to kaguya's infobox)

--Jashin Uchiha (talk) 13:12, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Tobirama's raw strength.
Characters like Jirobo and Tsunade have monstrous strength even without chakra enhancement. Being related to Tsunade, it is not a stretch for Tobirama to have great raw strength. Steveo920, 15:58, July 10, 2014

I watched the episode again, and there was no sign of using chakra. Tobirama already made it clear that when forcibly using his chakra in its raw form, it becomes visible. Clearly, he pushed on it. Also, Kakashi did announce using the first gate. He shouted "open". Steveo920, 16:11, July 10, 2014

I never said it was his signature trait by far. A wall cracking has no definite nature on how the cracks will form. You said it yourself. If he was going to test the full force of his chakra, it would have been seen. The Impure World Technique deludes the summoned target's physical might, not their chakra potency. Look at Zabuza. Steveo920, 16:44, July 10, 2014

RP: Rude
I went to Omnibender since he's a moderator here. You're too confrontational and you are trying to force your own opinion on other people. You call people you don't agree with idiots. In a sense, I went to a mod since this is a problem YOU have. I backed up what I put with an episode reference which is also in the manga. You extrapolate or outright make up that Madara fought the entire Senju Clan there when Hashirama would have never allowed that.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:29, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Tobirama and the other Senju never fought Madara. Hashirama wouldn't have allowed it doe to Madara's strength: Hashirama was the only one powerful enough to battle him. The manga and anime presented it solely as a Madara vs Hashirama duel, not Madara vs Entire Senju Clan.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:36, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * They were most likely fighting the rest of the Uchiha Clan there. No Senju, not even Tobirama could have faced Madara at that point. It was presented solely as a Hashirama vs Madara duel. Hashirama and Madara battled it out for 24 hours and Hashirama won.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:48, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Susanoo-Equipped Kurama
By the way, what is your opinion on this? I tried to contact @Ten Tailed Fox on it but he never responded. On that link he stated that the Susanoo-Equipped Kurama should be documented in some form. It wasn't published because of here, when Foxie had a seemingly had a different opinion that contradicts what he said in the first link. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 22:22, July 13, 2014 (UTC)

Re: TSB natures
No idea... like, at all. This whole Yinyang bullshit has become too much for me to handle. The only thing I know is that TSB and TBB are roughly the same, because they're both made of black & white/yin & yang/positive & negative chakra. Dunno how the four natures of Obito's TSB come into that equation, though... • Seelentau 愛 議 13:11, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it's not like that. I think it's more "YYR can take on all chakra natures' quantities"... or so... • Seelentau 愛 議 13:30, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Reincarnation
I saw that people were fine with adding an article, but there was clear opposition to not putting it in the infobox. Until a consensus is reached on that matter, it won't be added. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 18:18, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

RE: Something unusual
Forums and talkpages are also included in the edit count. You can see the actual bifurcation of your edits here (It includes deleted edits too; so may be higher)--~Ultimate Supreme  13:24, July 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * There might be some staff-only tool. Ask them--~Ultimate Supreme  13:39, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

Re: wat
If you check those snapshots from Saiyanisland, you could notice that they're identical to those in the manga when Minato revealed about his usage of this jutsu. I don't know exactly how but seems it'll be an ordinary Hiraishin just like when Minato used it against A-B duo. Let's see then. — Shakhmoot  (Talk) 21:43, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Kaguya riku senjutsu
Yes, but floating was accredited to the Rikudō Chakra, not to the Rikudō Senjutsu. We don't know if there's a difference or not, sooo... it's better to wait. It's always better to wait at this point. We can almost never say something for sure right now. We're still missing some pieces. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:53, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Was it stated that they got his chakra? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:22, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Power doesn't necessarily mean chakra. As far as I know, it wasn't stated that they got the chakra. They got the Six Paths Yin/Yang Power and the Six Path Senjutsu, but it doesn't say chakra anywhere, right? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:42, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not the tattoo, but the Yin power. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:39, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * That goes for the purple Rinnegan. Sasuke's is obviously different. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:50, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Was that stated? There's so much half-baked information, I don't know what was stated and what was not. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:12, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Revolt of the demon world
I have no idea how the mistake is called, but you made it and it's quite common: All X are Y doesn't mean that all Y are X. If all Genjutsu are Yin Release (which is most likely the case), it doesn't mean that all Yin Release techniques are Genjutsu (see Madara's Yin Release technique, for example). So yes, Yin Release can be both. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:36, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Gonna be real serious here Elveonora.
I am ignorant of nothing and don't you ever accuse me of such again. You will show the same gritting respect I show you ever time you bring this back up. We all have read the series and know what is happening. What we will not do is make something that is already complex and turn it asinine just to appease your misguided attempts to show the information correct.
 * I know goddamn well the crap that is Kaguya. However, we are not and will not stuff multiple articles into one super article, that does not make things easier for our readers, that just makes it convenient for us, the editors. What we have now isn't wrong. It is presented in a way that makes it convenient to our readers. It would be right and convenient for us, but we are an encyclopedia for the damned planet and it should be convenient for them.
 * The reason why I refused to entertain your argument is because it the same blasted argument you feel the need to make every time a new chapter is released. Someone so much as mentions something tailed beast related and you are jumping down everyone's throat with the same argument over and over and over again providing nothing new to the conversation.
 * You will stop accusing everybody who does not agree with you with bias when you your self are just as bias. If you think someone is biased, be a man, choke it down like the rest of us and don't derail the argument by throwing accusations around like it's going out of style. All that succeeded in doing is turn you into a raging madman who's arguments aren't wroth even a listen.

Questions?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 15:08, July 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * After looking in her talk page, the discussion (obviously) went off the rails. I could go either way on her being a jinchuriki but as technically she would be the jinchuiki of the Ten-Tails and the other tailed beast, because they kinda stop being separate when they are Ten-Tails and it is really bloody confusing.
 * If she is to be a jinchuriki it would be of the Ten-Tails (so yes, herself) but not the tailed beasts as by proxy every jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails would also then be the jinchuriki of everything else.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:24, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

Why do we even
Mental issues? That is undeniably insulting, I read at a college level and I possess an above average IQ.KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 16:34, September 7, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Re: Explosion Release
Nope. It's Doton and ? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:38, July 27, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Kaguya
To you maybe. To me more than enough.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 15:10, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't care about Kaguya's chakra. Koto Senju will come if he so desires. If he doesn't then your edit will go through. --TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:15, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Re: kaguya chakra question
She originally wanted only Hagoromo's and Hamura's chakra back. But then she saw that Hagoromo spread his chakra and mankind used it to create own chakra, and because of that she considers all chakra hers. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:23, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, that's their own chakra. If Kaguya would absorb all the Chakra in existence, she'd have more than when she first roamed the world. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:49, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Technically, it's not hers. I mean, why would it be? They used Hagoromo's chakra, not Kaguya's. But she thinks it's hers because Hagoromo's was hers before. Or so. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:28, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * You don't understand it yet, do you? The humans did not use Hagoromo's chakra as ninjutsu. They used his to create new chakra. And that chakra isn't Hagoromo's or Kaguya's, but Kaguya sees it as hers since they could only create it using Hagoromo's chakra, which he in turn was born with (it wasn't said he used the TT's chakra). • Seelentau 愛 議 19:52, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Re: chapter 674
eh, what text exactly? • Seelentau 愛 議 09:17, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * It says the technique's name, doesn't it? I only have a weird version of the raw available right now, I'll check a better version when I'm back home. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:42, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, found it. It says 昏き雷が２人を襲う！！ Kuraki ikazuchi ga futari o osou!!, which means Dark thunder attacks the two!!. However, this is not black. 昏 comes from 氏 low and 日 sun, it basically means dusk. Can also be translated as gloomy. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:25, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * But Madaras' Yin Raiton was white... also, it most likely refers to the bad intent behind his attack, not to the colour of it. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:59, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto's Stockholm Syndrome
As much as this may be true, I think it's too harshly written for the article. It clearly shows your discontent with Naruto's personality which shouldn't be here. I don't want to entirely undo the edit, as I think it contains true facts. Nevertheless, as it is now, it will probably start another edit wars, so maybe we should find a solution of writing it in a more neutral term, starting with leaving out terms like "evil" or "bizarre" which reflect your own opinion about it. Norleon (talk) 11:56, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Eyes
None of which is conveyed in a black and white image. ~SnapperTo 19:07, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Part IIIOf
If Sasuke ever becomes Hokage, I will join Naruto's Akatsuki lol ~ Ten Tailed Fox 06:52, August 5, 2014 (UTC)

Kaguya's eye was once a Sharingan!
Do you not realize? Sasuke was able to cast Amaterasu and Susano'o from Rinnegan and Madara was able to utilise Susano'o through his Rinnegan as well! Their Rinnegan had once been Sharingan therefore they are able to use the Sharingan's power despite them possessing a Rinnegan. If you believe Kaguya's third eye is a Rinnegn with Sharingan power you must accept that it was once a Sharingannnnnnn!KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 18:47, August 5, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization I understand but Susano'o is a Mangekyou Sharingan jutsu, Hyuga clan and Uzumaki without eyes can not use it.KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 12:32, August 6, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Re: latest episode forum discussion
Done. Yeah, I agree that this episode was amazing in terms of storyline and animation. Tenpenchii's scene was depicted so great and I loved it... — Shakhmoot  (Talk)

Re: 2 things
1) No. Unless the TSB and the TBB are the same. Then yes. But the TBB as a TBB without any connection to the TSB not, no.

2) Probably. But I couldn't care less right now. Trying to figure out the mechanics behind Saiken's gas, fluids and Mei's gas. I have a hunch that they're the same. At least the gases, dunno about the fluids. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:39, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm re-reading the raws for the exact words about Saiken's techniques. We have the strong alkaline fluid used in Leech Gap and the corroding gas used in Acid Scattering. Alcaline fluids are chemical bases, while the gas is most likely chemical acid. Both bases and acid are determined by their pH-level, with bases having a high level and acids having a low one. I suspect that the sticky slime field has a neutral pH-level. Now, what else works as an acid gas? That's right: Futton. I suspect that those things have a relation to each other. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because Boil Release doesn't create slime, I guess. I'm hesistant to add it, too. I also need to figure out how Utakata's bubbles play into this. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:11, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have only a slight idea how lime and vulcanism are related, but they are. Same goes for rubber and lava, of course.
 * Regarding the bubbles, the answer came immediately after I hit Publish. Bubbles are mostly created with soap and soap is a base. So yeah. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:37, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, he called it Suiton, that's right. Okay, then the bubbles are out of question, same goes for NM's oily water, I think. What now? • Seelentau 愛 議 20:55, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, when Mei attacked Sasuke, the latter said that his Susanoo is melting (溶ける, tokeru). Hachibi uses the same word, only in its transitive form (溶く, toku). Furthermore, Sasuke calls the mist mist of acid/acid mist (酸の霧, san no kiri) and Mei says she needs to change the acidity (酸度, sando). Over at the German wiki, I already created the article for Acid Ninja Techniques, maybe I should add this. It doesn't mean that Futton and Saiken's techniques are definitely related, though. They just work the same way. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:30, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because Mei produces mist. Mist is the result of burning a fluid (mostly water, as in Mei's case). If you burn acid water, the mist is acid, if you burn alkaline water, the mist is alkaline. (I have no idea about the Trivia in the Boil Release article, by the way). Saiken, on the other hand, produces gas and while mist is always a gas, gas isn't always mist. It's likely that Saiken does not burn water, but something else. They both use "gas ninjutsu", but only Mei uses the "mist line" of the "gas ninjutsu", so to speak. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:55, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Do you remember or can you find
Well, Sasuke used the black flames on A multiple times, but there was no reaction. Other than that, no. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:19, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Apology
I owe you a personal apology. I had not seen the talk page on Seel's Magnet Release page so I was unaware a new consensus had been reached. Please forgive my reversions and my wrongful blocking of you. Had I seen that first (the link only lead to the page itself), I wouldn't have reacted so rashly, but that is my fault for not looking into it further. Again, you have my deepest apologies. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:46, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Confused
Just to make sure they respond. A lot of things on talkpages go unnoticed, and I'm not the patient type. And I'm not disputing your theory, I'm just really confused on it. I know Kaguya is the TT, but still... And I'll eventually bring it to a talkpage if need be... WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 21:29, August 17, 2014 (UTC)

TSB Article
With the end of the Scale Powder discussion, I could not find any actual reason to believe the Truth-Seeking Balls were used in the creation of the Rasenshuriken.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:19, August 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Probably not.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:56, August 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * I try.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:00, August 19, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Kaguya six paths senjutsu
You said somewhere that the SPS was stated to be the mother technique for the TSB (in the manga). Do you remember where exactly? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:13, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * But then it's not because of the TT, but because of the 9TB. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:30, August 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not the same thing. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:37, August 20, 2014 (UTC)

No answer? :( • Seelentau 愛 議 14:14, August 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * But it is relevant. The TT is not the sum of all tailed beasts, because the tailed beasts are more than simple parts of the TT. They're their own living beings with each their own mind and body. Their personalities are their own, not part of Kaguya's will or so. That's why it's necessary to differ between [because of the TT] and [because of the 9TB]. You get the SPS when you have or had all 9TB in your body at one point, not if you had the TT in your body. Because Naruto, who has the SPS, never had the Gedo Mazo in his body, which is obviously part of the TT. In turn, saying that Kaguya has the SPS because she's the TT's "host" is wrong. She has the SPS because of the nine beasts inside her, not because of the TT as a whole. Do you get that?^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 14:54, August 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree, but I'm against adding her simply because we know jackshit about what is what and what is not. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:54, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because this case is different than the Tobigate. This time, we have no complete explanation regarding what the Six Paths Senjutsu are. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:22, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Becoming the Ten-Tails' jinch grants Six Paths Senjutsu. - That is wrong, as I explained above. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:30, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * The 9 TB are more than simple fragments of the TT's chakra. Having the 9 TB in ones body, one does not have the TT in his body. The TT is an entirely different entity, because it never had the personalities of each TB. That's why you can't attribute the SPS to the TT, but only to the 9TB. Naruto also never was the TT's Jinchuriki, hm? • Seelentau 愛 議 09:51, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

...I can't. I'm feeling like this... especially what he's saying at 00:30... goddamnit • Seelentau 愛 議 11:49, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * The complete TT as it was years ago didn't include the TB chakras, because the TB didn't exist at that point. Imagine it like this: You have dough and you split that dough up. Then you form little buns out of the dough and add raisins to one dough, grains of salt to another and so on. Then you put all the buns together again. Now you have the original dough, but with raisins, salt grains and other things. That's what happened with the Tailed Beasts and the Ten Tails. So what I'm saying is that it's not the TT that allows the use of SPS, but the 9TB. There's a slight difference which is important nonetheless.
 * I wrote a little bit, but I can't think any further. I have no sugar available. :/ • Seelentau 愛 議 12:05, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Then it still would not be necessary to be the TT Jinchuriki. You can use the SPS without it, Naruto is the living proof. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:15, August 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * It mustn't be from the TT, it must be from the 9TB. Otherwise, Naruto wouldn't be able to use the SPS. So yes, Kaguya is most likely a user of SPS, since she has the same TB in her that Naruto and the others have. However, this doesn't confirm that the TSB are part of the SBS. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:31, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

TSB
Let's get a few things straight. One, I don't give a damn what you think is stupid. I haven't edited in the last few hours specifically to avoid involving myself in your nonsense, due to TU3's wise advice, and now you're pestering me on my talk page. Don't. I don't care. Secondly, I'm not adding her as a user because she's not one. If the consensus is to remove SPS as a parent then you have two options; ask another sysop to remove it or wait 4 hours until I get home from my job and I will happily do so myself. Take your pick, it won't ruffle my jimmies either way. Lastly, you and I need to stay faaar away from each other so I'd suggest finding another user to call names and argue with on a constant basis because I, good sir, am at the limits of my patience. If that concludes our business here, I sincerely bid you a good day and ask that you direct any further inquiries to another sysop. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 13:23, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

Opinions needed
Shu talk page Munchvtec (talk) 15:05, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Harassment
It's harassment because TTF asked you quite specifically not to message him and to direct your problems to someone else, yet you messaged him anyway. Secondly, stop saying "sysop status abuse", the sysop flag is not a status symbol, the flag simply gives him some extra tools to help the wiki as a whole, he doesn't have supreme authority over anyone else. While you might be being honest, I feel that the constant talkpage discussions that go on for days are starting to drag down the wiki and make it impossible for anyone to do anything. You can tell that Omnibender has left the wiki, let's not scare off any more people. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 12:40, August 23, 2014 (UTC)

Hi
May I ask what the come on was for, I think i wrote those perso sections pretty well. Munchvtec (talk) 12:27, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

oh...sorry about that. Munchvtec (talk) 12:47, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

Re: apparently :-/
Leave me out of those discussions please. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:14, August 25, 2014 (UTC)

Re: I'm Clueless
Since in fiction, words and definitions are distorted for many different purposes. Im pretty sure anyone who fights like Killer Bee or Ay, wouldn't be considered "ninja", universally. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 16:05, August 27, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Hamura (Koto)
Yea, that's what I realised right before I deleted it. And the staff too would have probably been what caught most peoples eye, but like you said, there are too many different possible reasons how he could have gotten it. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 16:48, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

re: explanation
I gathered that. But, like, why "Bob"?

I realize TheUltimate3 way being unhelpful about the issue, but this is the sort of thing Narutopedia:Sysop Requests is for: to request assistance for things you can't do on your own. So, instead of needing to attempt the Bob workaround (although I'm surprised that didn't work), you ask a sysop to move the page for you. Evidently TU3 wouldn't have done so, but Jacce was online, for instance. And now I am. So... ~SnapperTo 18:46, August 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Infoboxes will update on their own eventually. Or you can make a null edit to the effected articles.
 * As for the split, all you need to do is edit Shinju (or God Tree, I might argue), replacing the redirect with tree-related content. Sysop assistance should officially be no longer needed. If I'm wrong, then I'll render support when I'm able. ~SnapperTo 18:56, August 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * It has sentience, so I suppose it technically is a character. My own inclination would be to treat it as a standard phenomenon and skip the infobox. But it's up to you and others. ~SnapperTo 19:02, August 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'd recommend going through Special:WhatLinksHere/Shinju, make sure links go to the right article. ~SnapperTo 20:45, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * ^ still this please. ~SnapperTo 19:04, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Re: thank you a lot
No prob. You're welcome. Although I'm doing all of this from my phone, I'm in a car at the moment, so it'll take a while. But I got you. -- WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contribs) 20:21, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Driving and being on my phone? Lol I would never do that. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contribs) 20:24, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

re:your opinion
I WOULD... elve...I appreciate that you're very active and caring about this wiki...but with all due respect, please stay out of my conversations with other people...I got Ur opinion on the talk page...now I want other people's opinions... anyway...thanx 4 Ur time... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 13:03, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

well...the TT's rinnegan icon got fixed EXACTLY after I PMed omnibender...donno if it was a coincidence or not...at least I get to know others ideas... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 13:30, September 3, 2014 (UTC)

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...U won't give up on me will U...got a crush on me or sth :]? in every god damn scanlation it's written they merged...this wiki says melded...or incarnated together...nowhere is said she incarnated into it...or it incarnated into her... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 20:54, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

the only thing we know about the original shinju before incarnation was an image that hagoromo showed to naruto which is similar in nothing to the tree obito summoned...that tree is a form of TT...not the original shinju before merging or incarnation or whatever...rinnegan was first manifested in kaguya...possibly beside byakugan...I don't think she had them before eating the fruit...but that's irrelevant here...then after the merging or incarnation the TT got it from her...donno why it didn't get byakugan too...this is irrelevant too...the point is...we have no evidence that the original shinju had rinnegan...therefore listing it in its infobox is wrong in my opinion...the only trait or feature that shinju had was its fukkin fruit...& I can't edit it simply because I'm the only one thinking this way...a majority of the people here should vote their opinions too... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 21:18, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

then we should either separate the original shinju's article form the one obito summoned...or reomve the rinnegan from the one exsting now...the rinnegan infobox is misleading info there... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 21:28, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Re: pure land
Don't know. Haku and Zabuza didn't remember anything, did they? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:09, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

profile page
Sorry if you feel like im intruding but why don't you have a profile page. i mean you have been a user for a while now and it would really help people get to know you a bit. Munchvtec (talk) 08:49, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Why ask me if it makes you a better editor lol. I was just wondering because a lot of the users have an about me section and I was looking forward to reading yours. I have one. Munchvtec (talk) 08:53, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, i appreciate that your honest. But cab I ask you what you think the profile page here is for then? Munchvtec (talk) 09:11, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, i appreciate it. Munchvtec (talk) 09:21, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Kudos
Please do not kudos your own posts, it looks silly and is meant for use on other people's posts. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 11:40, September 7, 2014 (UTC)

Evidence
http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=537667 Use this! The first point is invalid though.KiritoLevel96Alicization (talk) 16:41, September 7, 2014 (UTC)KiritoLevel96Alicization

Re: Seelentau's Analysis
Pretty much all of it. I would elaborate, but reliops' opinion on the subject is pretty much in agreement with mine. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 15:57, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Regarding Naruto's Natures
Wrong. In the anime filler, had you bothered to watch, you'd see he combined Fuuton with Suiton. He didn't give them Wind Release. He wasn't a tailed beast and he wasn't sealed inside of them. Naruto can use the tailed beast's abilities because of the very fact that he is a jinchūriki, same as any jinchūriki can. That's just a fact. Han can use Steam Ninjutsu, Gaara can use Sand, Bee can use Ink, the list goes on and on, and you only want to separate Naruto out because you are dead set against adding anything to him, even if you're wrong. When are you going to get it? The infoboxes don't display the natures Naruto painstakingly learned himself. It shows the natures he's been shown using. Guess what? If Son Gokū gives him Lava and Naruto applies, he used Lava Release! That's all there is to it. The Truth-Seeking Balls are a Tailed Beast Skill. Only those with the all nine or the Ten-Tails could ever use them. If that's a fact, then does it really matter if Naruto painstakingly learned all five natures and yin-yang? Hell no. They come from his connection to the Bijuu chakras inside of him. He's still using those natures. He may have help doing so, but for the longest time he needed help creating a Rasengan. Should he have been unlisted as a user of that too?

This is all in light of a fact that I really wish you would stop showing up to butt in on conversations I start with other people. I tried talking to Seel to finally put this TSB mess behind us, because God knows you are going to fight tooth and nail to say that four versions (five if you count the Sage) of the exact same technique are different elemental combinations, despite four times being confirmed Yin-Yang (Obito, Madara negated Minato's other arm, Kaguya, and we know Hagoromo had all natures), so why the hell is Naruto any different? Because you refuse to accept it. That's the only difference. We were told that they consist of four or more natures, we now know five are needed (I count Yin-Yang as one since it was listed Inyo, not Yin and Yang). Nothing has contradicted. The only thing that seems fishy is Obito not negating Edo Tensei for one chapter, in which he manifested two (rather than 10) TSB, and used an uncontroled version of the technique. But how is that any different than Naruto's Rasenshuriken? He couldn't control it at first, he couldn't throw it, so it harmed him. Now he can throw it and use it at its full potential. I fail to see how that's any different but somehow, good lord, you do.

If none of this makes you think, then I'm done arguing it. Eventually the databooks will come around, or Kishi will confirm it again in the Naruto/Sasuke fight. I just hope that at some point, you open your eyes and see it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 14:41, September 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * I can tell you to stay out of my conversations, and I will tell you that you are no longer to message me on my talk page. We're done here. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 17:24, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I did stay out of the topic between you and Seel. But you can't ban others from reading that and continuing it in another topic, especially since the topic at hand pertains the whole wikia, not just the two of you. The topic is nothing personal of yours, if you felt like it was, then you should have taken that over to Skype or Facebook. Now you have proven that you aren't a person to be taken seriously one bit--Elveonora (talk) 18:02, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

SPS & Rinnegan
You remember how Madara talked about Naruto gaining the SPS and Sasuke the Rinnegan? He put those powers on some kind of scale, so to speak. They're equivalent powers, two sides of the same coin. What for Naruto is the SPS, for Sasuke is the Rinnegan.

Now, flash forward: Hagoromo said in the latest chapter how Naruto has all tailed beast chakras and Sasuke has the Rinnegan. I believe that he did the same as Madara and we have our answer as to what the SPS actually is: all nine tailed beasts chakras in one person. No TT stuff, no Kaguya stuff, just a (pseudo) jinchuriki of all TB.

Whatcha think? • Seelentau 愛 議 22:26, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Was it actually confirmed that the SPS and Rinnegan come from Hagoromo's power? Because remember, Kabuto healed Sasuke with Hashi's cells and Naruto received the missing TB. Furthermore, Madara, who has the same powers, did not meet Hagoromo, but did receive Hashi's cells and the TB. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:18, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hagoromo gave them his yin/yang chakra, which resulted in the seals. As I said, there's nothing that confirms he gave the SPS/Rinnegan and Madara having the exact same powers without meeting Hagoromo basically confirms it. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:20, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I actually saw your message and answered quickly. ^^ Anyways, if 9TB+x results in SPS, Naruto can't have SPS because he's missing the x. And how does the last chapter suggest that Hagoromo has to do with the SPS and the Rinnegan? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:23, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, that... hmmm, if I recall correctly, he gave both of his sons equal powers, but only Indra inherited his strong chakra, right? Hagoromo said so when he talked to Naruto, I believe. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:38, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not "gift" in a sense of a birth presentor so. :D You know how they say someone's been "gifted with intelligence" or so? It's the same here. But you're going too far into speculation, mate. Was it ever stated that the SPS/Rinnegan were given by Hagoromo and/or resulted from whatever he gave Naruto and Sasuke? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:48, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Giving power to someone mustn't mean you do it actively. But maybe he meant how he chose Ashura to be his successor, giving him power over the Ninshu? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:57, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now I'm confused. :D Let's get back to the main question please: Was it ever stated that the SPS/Rinnegan were given by Hagoromo and/or resulted from whatever he gave Naruto and Sasuke? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:16, September 11, 2014 (UTC)

Six Paths
I'm working on a list of all the different terms that use "Six Paths". So far I have: What did I miss? I didn't include the Sage's tools, for obvious reasons. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:38, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Rikudō Sennin (六道仙人)
 * Rikudō Senjutsu (六道仙術)
 * Rikudō no Chakura (六道のチャクラ)
 * Rikudō no Chikara (六道の力)
 * Rikudō no In no Chikara (六道の陰の力) and Rikudō no Yō no Chikara (六道の陽の力)
 * Rikudō Chibaku Tensei (六道地爆天星)
 * Rikudō no Jutsu (六道の術)
 * Pain Rikudō (ペイン六道)
 * I wish you would just answer my questions and not throw in some speculation all the time. :D And even if all of those refers to Hagoromo, he himself was the Sage of Six Paths. He wouldn't be a sage of himself, would he? • Seelentau 愛 議 21:01, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I forgot the Six Paths Sage Chakra Naruto used against Madara's clone. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:10, September 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't really want to discuss those uncertain things anymore. The last time it ended with me almost leaving the wiki. So here's my opinion on those things:


 * No, nature releases (Inton and Yoton) were never mentioned in that context. But if I recall correctly, Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke chakra, so it's likely the chakra's yin/yang power they meant, meaning they received yin/yang-chakra, which equals Inton and Yoton.
 * I don't think there's a manga definition for the term "pseudo jinchuriki", huh? So since it's our definition, we can change it around as we need to.
 * I personally don't think that Naruto's TSB has all natures. So yeah, I can't say anything about that. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:30, September 11, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto, Kaguya, the SPS, and the TSB
I have some thoughts regarding these that I'd like to run by you and see what you think. If we come to a reasonable conclusion, then we can bring them to the site at large, so let's try to leave speculation out of this as much as possible. The fact of the matter is, against each other, we're our own worst enemies: together, though, we could get shit done on this wiki. Of that, there is no question in my mind. So here's my thought process:


 * Recently, Hagoromo noted a similarity in Naruto and Kaguya: both possess the chakra of the nine tailed beasts. Obviously, their chakra was originally Kaguya's, so she'd naturally have it. Naruto gained it by receiving it from the beasts themselves.
 * In that regard, Hagoromo says that Naruto and his mother are the same, though he doesn't think he'll turn out like Kaguya.
 * We know that the Six Paths Sage Technique is likely a result of senjutsu chakra combining with the the chakra of the nine tailed beasts.
 * We know this because the Ten-Tails is made of natural energy and possess the chakra of all nine tailed beasts: the result is its jinchūriki automatically obtain the SPS.

Conclusion: From that alone, I can reasonably connect Kaguya's TSB with Naruto's. I agree with you on one regard: Naruto does not himself have use of all five basic natures and Yin-Yang. He can only use wind and Yang on his own (even before he got the mark, Naruto could manipulate Yang chakra through Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, as that is what turned the White Zetsu into trees). Now, here's where its crucial to follow me through:


 * The TSB are a Tailed Beast Skill; they require the chakras of the beasts to function. Therefore, if Naruto uses them, which he does, we can accept that the tailed beast chakra helps them even without him directly asking for those natures. After all, Minato says that the balls are instantaneous. They form absent of the user's will, which explains why Naruto never asked for help creating them.
 * Matatabi possesses Fire.
 * Isobu possesses Water.
 * Naruto himself already possesses Yang and Wind.
 * Either Chōmei or Gyūki possess Lightning — it doesn't matter which because we know Madara gained lightning chakra for his Storm Release from the Ten-Tails chakra.
 * Son Gokū possesses Earth.
 * Yin Kurama, which was within Naruto at the time, possesses Yin.

From this alone, Naruto has all the components to make up the kekkei mōra of the Truth-Seeking Ball. Like I said, he doesn't have to mold them himself because Mintao claims that they are instantaneously created, and as a tailed beast skill, their chakra is already involved in the creation, so their elements would be present. Does this make any sense? I'm taking this a step at a time. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:53, September 14, 2014 (UTC)