Talk:Killer B's Jinchūriki Forms

Tails
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the image, he's clearly shown to have 8 tails in his demon cloak form, I know there are horns, but if you look carefully, the other tails are visible just near the words. Omnibender - Talk 16:14, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

No it is only three tails, plus the two horns the appear above his head, then the cloak wraps around the rope around his waist and his scarf making it seem he has more tails.

The horns are very small compared to the tails, and they are very close to his head, not in the mass of chakra above it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:17, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I count at least five tails on his body, asides from the horns. Maybe a diagram is needed for better speculation... Mohrpheus (talk) 20:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's a diagram for you ^^ There are three obvious tails (red, green, and blue). Then there is the rope around his waist (magenta), which could be mistaken for two more tails. There is also his scarf (yellow), which could also be mistaken for another tail, and finally there are the two horns (cyan), which could also be mistaken for two tails.
 * There are only three actual tails, though. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The horns are the two things near the forehead protector, if you compare the image with the scan of when KB rams Sasuke's chest, you can see that the horns are not what you marked as cyan, the cyan ones are also tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * He has two sets of "horns"; the conventional set on his head and the set on his arm used for Lightning Plough Hot Sword. If you look at the panel where he's collapsed from Sasuke's genjutsu, it's more obvious that there are only three tails. ~SnapperTo 21:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Life-Span Shortening
From what I saw, the Eight-Tails transformation makes Killer Bee lose his skin like Naruto, and after getting out of it, he was shown almost alright with his skin healed. This looks to me that his skin and cells are regenerating at a speed similar to Naruto's own healing, maybe a little slower. Should we put this information on this page? --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 23:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * He doesn't heal instantly like Naruto does, so he isn't going to have the same problem. His case is more like what happens to Sasuke's hand when he uses Chidori. ~SnapperTo 02:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

No legs ?
I looked the images of the Eight-Tailed Beast over and over, but I really can`t see any legs. Can please someone tell me if they see any legs ?


 * Dispite being in the wrong place, the Eight-Tailed Giant Ox has two arms and eight tails, but no legs.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 09:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Four Tails
Is it just me or is the shape more sculpted when he's in four tails?Endomarru (talk) 02:31, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Six-Tails?
Yet again, I take issue to the comparison between Killer Bee's new form and the one he used against Sasuke. Look carefully at the recent chapter - unlike his previous Jinchuriki transformation, the chakra cloak does not envelop the ropes around his waist. This is clearly visible in the picture in the article. The same can be said about his scarf, which was also previously stated to "not count as a tail." The fact that Killer Bee's 4-tails transformation omits both of these featues suggest that they are all indeed tails. Hence, the form Bee used against Sasuke would be a six-tailed form, not a three-tailed one. Nothing can really be said to the contrary. Mohrpheus (talk) 20:57, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * In the v. Sasuke fight, the scarf and rope "tails" are a) shorter than the other tails, b) do not sprout from the tail bone region, and c) only exist because they are surrounding something (something no tail for any other jinchuriki has done). Perhaps Kishimoto is trying to make it less confusing by not giving the scarf and and ropes a shroud this time. ~SnapperTo 21:26, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed they are shorter, but seeing as Killer Bee has the only other chakra cloak in the series, it's very possible that it would work differently than the Nine-Tails cloak. Not to mention that being based off of an octopus-bull creature, the strange positioning of the tails could represent how octopi have "arms" rather than "tails." I doubt Kishi would just change the chakra cloak's design so soon, but you may be correct. Mohrpheus (talk) 22:14, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yugito can be seen with tails briefly and Gaara's sand tail isn't forming around anything. And if Kishimoto were following an octopus design for the tail placement, Killer Bee would have tails all around his waist, not just the back. ~SnapperTo 04:00, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yugito and Gaara are entirely different cases, because they do not have chakra cloaks. Gaara's tail was made of a physical medium, rather than pure chakra. Yugito on the other hand had tails made of blue fire, and they only appeared because she was transforming directly into her full beast form. I admit that the octopus arm thing was speculative, but that doesn't change the fact that one form clearly enveloped his ropes and scarf while the other did not. It is more important to take the manga at face value rather than assume that Kishi altered something. Mohrpheus (talk) 22:58, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * And yes, taking the manga at face value, Killer Bee only went three, then four tails whenever he wrapped himself in the Eight-Tails chakra. As Snapper said, when the chakra wrapped around his scarf and rope are shorter than the tails, and when we see Killer Bee from the back, we can see where all the tails originated, right at the base of the tail bone.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:56, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Lol. Taking these new developments into consideration, I concede my argument. The seven-tail form follows the tail-on-back rule. I suppose you were correct about Kishi deciding to change the way the form is drawn - it certainly makes things easier to comprehend. Mohrpheus (talk) 20:36, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Seven and eight
I know that there were eight tails, but in some panels, I can count only seven, as if he changes between seven and eight tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:33, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * You know, I noticed that two. I just assumed it was a artistic mistake, cause when he went Version 2, he had seven tails in it's first panel, then in other panels he suddenly had eight. Then when it got absorbed, his chakra shield then had eight. /shrug--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:36, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * If anything, the text will be corrected when the tonkoban comes out, ShounenSuki said that while in the manga Kisame called Madara "Mizukage-sama", in the tonkoban he said "former Mizukage-sama". It would make things neater. I've also added the one tailed transformation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I dont know what the tonkoban is.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:46, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's the book containing only the manga chapters, usually 10 chapters at a time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:49, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Is suspect that the eight-tailed panels were mistakes. There are too many cases of a tail suddenly appearing/disappearing. ~SnapperTo 19:09, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it's possible to avoid all this mess and confusion and simply stop listing each individual transformation. Instead, perhaps it is better to simply have three general sections: one for Version 1 transformations, one for Version 2 transformations, and one for the complete Tailed Beast form. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:05, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * The thing though, it works for everyone but Killer Bee. Naruto's ones are obvious, same with Gaara's (his was only through the extent of his transformations). Killer Bee's the only one where crap starts to get effed up. I guess Killer Bee could be the exception but I still think it's a artistic mistake.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:17, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, there are obviously artistic mistakes at work here. In the first panel where Killer Bee uses the Version 1 cloak, he has 8 tails, yet Sabu says he has seven.
 * I think sorting the transformations like I suggested is the best for Killer Bee, though. Also keeping in mind a possible future where the Version 1 and 2 transformation can also be applied to the other jinchūriki. Naruto already has shown us transformations similar to Killer Bee's, he jut cannot control them yet.--ShounenSuki (talk 00:35, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or ever, considering the demon fox....--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:10, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd support reducing this to version sections until the 8/7 tails can be sorted out. Or at least until the individual sections can be better fleshed out (this thing looks awful with eight images). ~SnapperTo 05:57, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

There I agree with you. Unlike Naruto and Gaara, whos sections are much much larger and can support the images they have, Killer Bee's does not.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 06:30, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ahem* Excuse me, but the way it is shown is that Killer Bee is in 7 tailed version 1 (incorrectly drawn as 8) when he has 6 tails absorbed and down-grades to 1 tailed version 1. He then draws power from the ox and goes into 7 tailed version 2 then quickly to 8 tailed version 2 while forming the ox's spine and skull along his back and onto his hand. he then attacks kisame and loses enough chakra to be changed into 8 tailed version 1. In one of the following panels only 7 can be seen, while all of the rest show 8, one of the tails was probably hidden behind his back in this panel.--Hulon2 (talk) 03:35, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

second page of chapter 471
people, really look good at the picture of Killerbee with 7 tails (level 1), there are actually 8 on it. 4 left, 4 right of him. One peeking behind the letters... --FlameSkarr (talk) 18:16, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Edit: i mean the one titled "Killer Bee's first Seven-Tailed form."--FlameSkarr (talk) 18:19, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not really, you can tell when one tail is front of the other, the pencil stroke lets shows it, you can tell that because to the right, there is a tail in front of another, and it's very clear at the point that they're together that there is a white line of sorts showing where one ends and the other begins It's just one tail there. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:21, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

can u plz send me your mail, ill send u the picture with tails numbered, plz i dont know how to post a picture here--FlameSkarr (talk) 18:32, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

never mind, got it, here is the link: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:8_tails_shown_red.jpg sry if it is an infraction or similar, just see the 8 tails--FlameSkarr (talk) 18:37, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Those are eight, the one I'm saying it's seven is the version 2 of seven tails, just after KB asks for more chakra, in it people are saying that the third from left to right is actually two tails, they're not. As far as I can see, they're the same. You can tell when one tail is on top of each other looking at the second from right to left, it overlaps with the first and with the third tail, also from right to left, a white line seperates them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:40, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, sry i didnt notice that yet i mean this picture because its named "Killer Bee's first Seven-Tailed form." in the article when it clearly is not... Should we maybe change, at least the name of, it?--FlameSkarr (talk) 18:43, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Tilts his head.* Not that this has anything to do with any information, but I find it interesting when I see that Killer Bee has chakra around his feet shaped like hooves, when the Eight-Tails doesn't have legs at all rofl. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 03:22, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well. It IS an ox.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:33, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

8 tailed cloak
ok, i waited awhile for people to settle this, but i guess thats not the case. i can understand thinking that the 8-tailed cloak could have been an accident in those pages from 471. however, for the ENITRE duration of 472, Killer Bee's Cloak was constantly in an 8 Tailed form. now for some reason this seems to be ignorable to some people who refuse to allow the page to be updated. so just for them, i'll list when 8 tails can be counted in 472:
 * 1. The first cell of page 1.(version 1)
 * 2. The second cell of page 2.
 * 3.The third cell of page 4.
 * 4. The fourth cell of page 4.
 * 5. The sixth cell of page 5.
 * 6. The first cell of page 6.

now, the only times in which 8 tails cant be confirmed were those in which the tails werent readily visible. this can be coupled with the fact that in EVERY VISIBLE CELL where bee has his tails, there are 8 of them. now i'd like to hear why people think the "only up to seven tails" line should be guarded. and PLEASE, use sources or evidence. Newthx2u (talk) 18:58, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Page 2 of chapter 471, Killer Bee is shown with eight chakra tails though Sabu only mentions 7. Flash forward to his Version 2 transformation, again on it's main panel, it had only seven tails, then suddenly without warning there were eight. As we already concluded above, that this either a artistic mistake (and a rather bad one at that) and we have someone who did say "seven tails".--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:33, November 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Again, i'm not talking about the 471 line. The entirety of 472 shows absolute consistency, other than the confusing cell (note even a page, a CELL) which youre talking about. If we go with the "artistic mistake" argument, we might as well say that there could have only been six tails, or five (pick a number). I'll remind you that on page 14 of chapter 439, yamato says that naruto entered a 9-tailed state, but we sure as hell dont have a section for that on the Kyuubi transformations page (mainly because we have eyes and can count).
 * Overall, this means the "sabu said 7" argument and "artistic inconsistency" argument are both useless and disproven. simply changing it to say he can reach eight tails, and keep the trivia note about the mess-up line on that one cell from 471 would be the best course of action. Newthx2u (talk) 00:44, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Honestly to me, It doesn't matter what we see, because we aren't in the naruto universe. It is this simple: Sabu is in the naruto universe, he sees seven tails, then there are seven tails. Simant (talk) 01:32, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you quite understood exactly what Newthx2u was attempting to say in his last paragraph. It appears to me he was asking you to disregard/exclude the issue from Chapter 471 for the moment (whether you accept it as a simple mistake or not) but instead to focus solely on Chapter 472, which demonstrates Killer Bee in his version 2 form with eight tails various times throughout the chapter. In this case it can't be accepted as a simple mistake because of how many instances are displayed, seemingly making the other issue irrelevant, as whether or not eight tails where displayed in the last chapter they were certainly shown in the recent chapter. Blackstar1 (talk) 01:55, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, Blackstar. Thats the point i've been trying to make. however, i'm not trying to completely disregard the cell in 471, just that whats presented in 472 resolves that issue.
 * Simant, ive already addressed the whole "if he said it" argument in the paragraph above you with the reference to a single panel from chapter 439. Newthx2u (talk) 02:22, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Single panel? What about when killer bee says samehada can absorb six tails at a time and he has 1 left, are you saying that 8 - 6 = 1? Also i seem to recall that when naruto transforms the tails don't grow separately, they branch off, perhaps there is 7.5 tails or 7.25 tails. Either way it doesn't matter since it is unclear, perhaps you could wait for the anime to reach up to this point? Or if you are that hellbent on it, then send a fan letter and ask the author yourself... Simant (talk) 02:26, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Take a chill pill dude, we're debating so lets not start throwing feces. the 6 tails absorption happens before the 8 tails transformation happens. the first appearance of a level 1 8-tails is on the first page, and the level 2 8-tails appear as he's performing lariat.
 * Also, i find it odd that youd rather say that there are "7.25" tails before admitting that there are clearly 8.
 * Finally, as long as we're bringing up math, could you go and look at any page from chapter 472 and tell me how 8=7? i'd really appreciate it. Newthx2u (talk) 02:58, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Lets not turn this into a debate over the number of tails featured in chapter 471, there are other sections already doing that. The issue here is instead people reverting the line about Killer Bee only being seen in a seven-tailed version so far, even though chapter 472 clearly demonstrates him using an eight-tailed version. Can we please keep focus on this rather than dredging up other issues as well. Blackstar1 (talk) 03:27, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

What if Sanbu just counted wrong?

Let's just remove all controversy from this page
Hey guys, let's just remove all controversy from this page. We should keep the little trivia bit about the panel erros, however we should remove where it blatantly says that "Killer Bee has only been seen in a seven-tailed version 2 transformation thus far." There is just to much controversy about how many panels show his Version 2 Eight-Tailed state, without characters referring to them, and then another panel refers to Killer Bee currently in a 7-Tailed State. Lets wait till the Manga explains this, or the Anime shows us clear pictures before we state peoples interpretations with absolute certainly in this article. Dragon Hacker (talk) 21:08, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Can we finally put Killer Bee as being able to do a 8-Tailed Cloak with Manga 463
On page 7, Bee has been clearly shown in a 8-Tailed Cloak when attacking with his brother, the absolute clarity shows that this CANNOT be artistic errors. Furthermore Killer Bee transformed in a constant 8-Tailed Cloak for most of Manga 472, without anyone saying he was in a 7-Tailed Cloak. It is ludicrous to assume that Bee can only go to a 7-Tailed cloak when he has been clearly shown to go in a constant 8-Tailed Cloak for 2 straight chapters (3 IF you include some 471, although not a constant transformation, with only the one line stating he was in a 7-Tailed Cloak)

We need to update the page with this fact, or else the page will turn into a page of personal bias, misconceptions, and ignorance. Dragon Hacker (talk) 23:30, November 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I hate to break it to you but personal bias is the name of the game around here. If you'll look two discussions above you'll see what i'm talking about. Find a comfortable seat and dont expect too much action/admission of error from these guys too soon dude. Newthx2u (talk) 04:44, November 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * If only being a jerkass was a blockable offense....anyway, here's what I'm going to say, keep the discussion up and don't be a jerkass when trying to prove your point. Two discussions ago, we came to the conclusion that it was an artistic mistake (which personally I still think it is), get more people to look and respond and if fact and luck is your side, your argument can be victorious. I will not dip my hands in this because, to put it bluntly, I am biased against any argument made by Newthx2u.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 04:49, November 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you realize you're both perfectly capable of making the changes yourselves? I'll admit that an eighth tail is appearing too often to be a mistake. ~SnapperTo 04:52, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not at all a normal user he but I check this site often and read the weekly chapters. Bee uses Lariat if I'm correct. Earlier on, he used Lariat against Sasuke and the Hachibi chakra surronded all the parts of his outfit that stuck out, including the ropes around his waist. Could it just be that?--King of Las Noches (talk) 04:57, November 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Dragon Hacker, there was a discussion about the ropes thing awhile back, but that's not the case. if you look at any of the 8-tails pics from the last 3 chapters you can see that they're all independent of any clothing and such. This is also the case with his chakra horns on his head and any swords he uses, but thanks for the contribution nonetheless.
 * U3, if you were looking to not prove my point, that wasn't the way to do it. There were debates in the past where i openly supported your views regardless of our disagreements. Chances are that that will continue be my policy, regardless of the fact that you have so predictably shown your true convictions.
 * Snapper, i'm fairly certain that they've still got the page blocked. Even if it was editable there would still be several individuals who'd just declare a very progressive revert war. Newthx2u (talk) 05:43, November 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * If by true convictions, I've revealed myself to be a spiteful prick, then yes. I am a spiteful prick. And I will remain a spiteful prick as long as it get's results.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 05:47, November 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also there is no block on the page.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 05:48, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Chakra Cloak
When I look at the article, for the version one transformations, it says that Killer Bee uses his own chakra to bring out a demon cloak, while the version two says he taps into the demons chakra. Unless the version one cloaks are constructs of Bee's OWN chakra, shouldn't he already be tapping into his demon's chakra for version one transformations? --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 20:41, December 6, 2009 (UTC)