Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-30323490-20180624145734/@comment-33286580-20180628040008

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: @Nashikeine Yes, but as I said earlier, Yomotsu Hirasaka working differently is a big deal because it is a multiple-step pattern, unlike Kamui. Another thing is that Yomotsu Hirasaka itself doesn't bring people to a different dimension. Kaguya drags people through the portal. Kamui does that automatically.

Point.

but what i said is that they both open portals. their idea may differ, but they both open portals in the end to suck people in, whether it needs Kaguya needs to drag someone in or it just automatic with Kamui.

Remember this point.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: It wasn't with ease. Even though he avoided the portal (from a NON Rikudou enhanced 14 year old Obito), he still stated that the fight would boil down to the last split second. Also, Minato possessed his own Space-Time Ninjutsu that works with literal teleportation, not just high speed movement. As far as I'm aware, Naruto does not possess any teleportation.

Yes, Minato used FTG, but the thing with Minato is that he was still trying to understand Obito's jutsu. by the time he made his escape he was almost sucked in.

in this fight, Naruto knows about Kamui. he has fought against it. seen it over the years. he just has to see a portal being formed and he can blitz his way out.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: All that was stated was that it was the origin of all Space-Time Ninjutsu, yet Kamui still managed to pose a great threat to Kaguya. In fact, Kamui was the only reason Sasuke was saved from Kaguya's dimension. So no, there isn't a huge gap.

the only reason Kamui worked that way because Obito synced his Kamui with the time space of Yomotsu Hirasak and did what he could.

Yomotsu Hirasaka is much faster in that regard. Remember the ice dimension where Sasuke used Amaterasu, Kaguya was able to use Yomotsu Hirasaka and get out in a split second.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: True, but I'm only using that feat to prove that Kamui is not a whole lot weaker than Yomotsu Hirasaka if it was capable of canceling it.

yeah. not whole lot. but Yomotsu Hirasaka still triumphs it.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: When Naruto and Sasuke were taken to the iceberg in the ice dimension, Sasuke used Amaterasu and Flame Control consecutively really fast. Maybe not at the same time, but still really fast.

something Sasuke trained or more like become proficient with each passing battle.

Kakashi just got the eyes. he isnt used to using both eyes as Sasuke.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Kakashi displayed he was capable of staying inside a Perfect Susano'o and still turn intangible with Kamui. Therefore, he was using two MS abilities at the same time (Kamui and Susano'o). Later on, Kakashi also passes through Kaguya's Ash-Bone and at the same moment, created a Kamui Raikiri. There, he was using both Kamuis. Left eye in order to enhance Raikiri with Kamui. Right eye in order to turn intangible.

Susanoo once active does not require MS. blind Madara is prime example and even Itachi and Sasuke have shown using it without MS. so that's not an example of 2 MS jutsu togeether.

Kamui raikiri is essentially Kakashi using Raikiri with SIx Paths CHakra (or normal if you want) and phasing through oppoenths attack using Kamui instead of dodging the attack with the help of Sharingan. its like taking away the tunnel vision problem with Kamui. he doesnt imbube Raikiri with Kamui.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: "Otherwise, Kakashi would have used it against Kaguya." Kishimoto has a tendency to nerf people who are too overpowered. That's the reason why no Rinnegan user other than Nagato was shown to use all Six Paths Techniques. It's because it'd be too overpowered. For example, picture a Juubito who can not only revert attacks to nothing with Gudo Dama, but also repel and absorb them. He'd be nigh invincible.

Yeah. there are many if that could have happened. but it didnt. fact is that no one used 2 MS jutsu at the same time and that is it.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Actually, I'm not talking about that moment. I'm talking about the moment in Chapter 689 pages 11-12. Kaguya, right after producing the Expansive Truthseeker Orb, goes for Kakashi's Susano'o with an Ash-Bone. Kakashi reacts and responds by blitzing her with Kamui raikiri. During that moment, Black Zetsu specifically stated Kaguya's power and speed were far greater than before. This is proven true by how this Kaguya evaded an attack from both Naruto and Sasuke at the same time, hinting Kakashi was easily on their same league in speed, if not, slightly faster.

that's no speed feat. Kakashi simply used Kamui intangibility to dodge and not literally did it physically.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Wrong. Minato dodged it with teleportation and reaction time. Not speed.

Again. read above.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Lol I'm not comparing Naruto's full speed to TSO. I'm just saying that even with only 1 MS and while near his deathbed and while struggling to fend off Black Zetsu, Obito could still Kamui away Ssakur abefore Madara's attack hit her.

that was on Obito's part. dont give Obito's skills to Kakashi just because the latter got his eyes and Kamui. Obito was shown with ridiculous feat by the end of the manga when he should have long been dead.

Like Madara couldnot even move because the Ten Tails was ripped of him, but Obito could not only move but help save the world. it was just hax on Obito.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Um... Why does it matter if the Kamui Shuriken come with the susano'o or if Kakashi created them with the left eye? It doesn't matter.

just correcting you nothing more.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Considering unstable Kaguya was hit by them, I'm pretty sure they have a good shot at warping away Naruto. Especially combined with Kakashi's genius.

Kaguya could barely control herself in that moment, let alone those arms, while Naruto is in full control of himself.

that is no comparision. Naruto dodges.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Where is it stated or shown Yomotsu Hirasaka is faster than Kamui? Being a highe level technique doesn't make it faster.

the Ice dimension. escaping the thousands of Naruto clones. pulling Sasuke to another dimension without him noticing when he had become a haxxed character with SIx Paths CHakra and his RInnegan sharingan combo.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Kamui feats: 1. Okay. 2. I don't get what you're saying. Are you agreeing Kamui is faster than 8 Gate Guy or not? 3. It is a speed feats. Obito needs to intentionally prolong the duration of Kamui so that Rinnegan Sasuke can get close enough in range to use Ameno.

2. Indeed i am. Gai wasnt that fast really.

i mean look at the whole thing. as Gai charged at Madara, Madara attacked him with TSB, which Minato FTGed away. Gaaara by then had helped Kakashi reach Madara on his sand. Madara seeing his TSBs taken away used the one on him to form a circular barrier around him. while Kakashi had the time to whisk a part of it away.

Gai's attack was nothing like A's when he was shown attacking Minato or Naruto or when Naruto slapped away TBB. they were shown as a flash moving across the field. Gai wasnt.

3- it isnt a speed feat. it is a power feat. and again not his own power. and also Obito was made too haxxed after having Ten tails removed, even when he should have died. and this again was Obito feat not Kakashi.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: And yes, that's one main weakness. The intangibility isn't forever.This isn't that bad though because the Kamui's time limit is 5 sseconds if usedconsecutively. Kakashi's stamia and Chakra are the main issues. That's what I think is a big advantage for Naruto. Just as a reminder for where I stand, I'm only saying Kakashi might have a chance. I'm not saying he's winning.

I got the last part loud and clear on the firs one alredy.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: He can attack while intangible by using the other MS at the same time.

No. nothing has shown that like Obito Kakashi can only phase a part of his body to Kamui dimension. so no.

dont go adding feats of Obito to Kakashi.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Kakashi's PS is also enhanced by Rikudou Chakra though. It's actually enhanced by Rikudou AND SPSM Chakra which Obito absorbed from Juubidara. Other than that, I agree Sasuke is an original owner of the dojutsu and is an Uchiha and has a Rinnegan.

Not SPSM. Obito lost that chakra when he transferred the biju he collected from Madara to Naruto.

Kakashi only had Six Paths CHakra.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: How are Naruto and Sasuke more haxed out than Kakashi?

i always think that Kamui is one of the most haxxed jutsu in Narutoverse, but i solely refer it to its usage by OBito.

Kakashi may have gotten both eyes, but he didnt get to show the level of Kamui usage as Obito.

something he will not be able to given his low level of Chakra compared to Hashirama body Obito.

Naruto has TSB. all powers of the Biju. insta heal. Healing others.

Sasuke has Rinnegan-Sharingan combo. Ameno. travel throuhg other dimensions.

It&#039;s Not Johnny wrote: Those aren't haxes though. They are more of power feats.

Yeah. got it. just a mistake in typo.