User talk:Seelentau/Naruto Timeline

a thing
"Kushina dies because of extraction" thought it was because she got impaled by a **** big claw :D--Elveonora (talk) 14:57, January 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * She would've died anyway, so whatever :D Seelentau 愛議 14:59, January 16, 2014 (UTC)

How about a legend for easier navigation? I can't make sense out of those numbers :P--Elveonora (talk) 14:54, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those're the dates in MM/DD/YY format, while the numbers in brackets are the age of the character at that point. Seelentau 愛議 15:04, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I get it now, but this for example: "01/01/64–12/31/64" means 64 years before current events, or not? Well if that's so, should it no say -64? or at least 64BCE? You don't differentiate events from before zero from those after zero, unless I'm blind--Elveonora (talk) 15:25, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the timespan, one year. So yes, it means 64 years before Naruto's birth year. Of course there can't be a negative year, but seeing as the years count down until year 0 and then count up again should explain enough, huh? But I can add "bNB" and "aNB", if you want. Seelentau 愛議 15:28, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, no, it's just for the sake of semantics :P Kinda like we have BCE and CE, I was also afraid the code wouldn't recognize two evenly named sections, but that doesn't seem to be the case.--Elveonora (talk) 15:39, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Anything else about the layout? A wiki page probably isn't the best place to create this timeline, but I don't know if there are any "timeline-creation-programs" out there... :( Seelentau 愛議 15:40, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

I like it as is. Will you eventually add things like "at least a millennium ago, Sage of Six Paths was born" etc.? :) EDIT: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User:Seelentau/NewTimeline#01.2F01.2F44.E2.80.9312.2F31.2F44_bNB does this refer to Konoha as the first or to the fifth having been established? Because the others followed afterwards, so Konoha is a little older than that--Elveonora (talk) 16:16, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll try to be more precise with the information I add. So no Sage for now. That date refers to the five countries, it comes from the second fanbook. Seelentau 愛議 18:14, January 20, 2014 (UTC)

So what's the latest explanation for Kakashi-Obito age thingy? ^_^ --Elveonora (talk) 13:45, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Before I changed it based on the anime info? I searched for anything that dated Obito's death to 5 bNb, but I couldn't find anything. So I took their Ninja IDs and calculated everything from there on. The anime info corrected it just a bit (2 years), but it still fits. Seelentau 愛議 15:57, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

"a young boy slaughters the participants of a Genin exam in Kirigakure" interesting that you omitted Zabuza's name. Also a question, are you re-reading the manga as well for this timeline or purely from memory?--Elveonora (talk) 13:57, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, because it couldn't have been Zabuza, even though the manga states that. So I left it out for the time being. I'm using the German timeline for most of the things, but I re-read everything I'm not sure about. Seelentau 愛議 15:57, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

They can't be the same age, they were in the same group, weren't they? We know that Obito "died" at 13, but since we aren't entirely sure how many years bNB that was, going backwards we can figure that out.


 * he became Chunin at 11 (supported by both databooks and manga scenes)
 * we know he failed the Chunin exams once, having been knocked out by Guy (supported by both databooks and manga scenes)
 * this means that Obito was 10 when Kakashi 6 because we are 100% sure they both participated together, unless Kakashi has a double, so easy math
 * therefore when Obito was 13, Kakashi must have been 9
 * Kakashi becoming a Chunin at 6 is not only confirmed by databooks but manga twice, so an unlikely retcon
 * He is 31 now (or rather 32 in a month let's say) 32 - 6 = 26, meaning it's been 26 years since then
 * So Kakashi was 7 when Obito became Chunin and 9 when Obito died
 * 26-3= 23... 23+13= 36 years old, Obito's current age

I really don't get how can you workaround that... only by taking the registration numbers into account and ignoring else you can.

For Zabuza, he might have had a twin or something, after all, Suigetsu can be easily mistaken for Mangetsu--Elveonora (talk) 17:09, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't ignore the IDs, but you're right, I forgot about the Chūnin exam they participated in... f**k it, I was so sure about it this time >_< Gonne look into it tomorrow again, today real life takes priority. Seelentau 愛議 17:33, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Just to say... It's really a tremendous job to do such thing like that, senpai. Thanks a lot... I wonder about how the upcoming anime filler arc will deal with those timelines. (For example, when did Yamato join the ANBU or somthing like that) Elve-kun, good analysis by the way. I'm looking forward to see the full version of this timeline. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 17:40, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

I'm depressed now... if we go by chapter 599, we have to ignore the IDs or vice versa. But I can't ignore any of those information... what do? Seelentau 愛議 17:54, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Trust me, so am I. But if I were you, I'd ignore the IDs since they haven't even been explained, not to mention it's much easier to make a mistake when it comes to a serial number than a whole bunch of chapters and databook adding to each other. Chapter 599 pretty much agrees with Databook details for Obito and Kakashi (save the IDs) but once again there's the Hayate and others error. I'd just ignore conflicting information, or try to find a workaround like with the Zabuza =/= insane student thing lol.--Elveonora (talk) 20:47, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

The problem is this, the ID's need not be explained as the name "Ninja Registration I.D." Is self explanatory = They got the I.D. when they became Ninja and they became Ninja when they Graduated the academy so yes the ID's are correct but stay in tune for any changes or retcons in databook 4. Also chapter 599 cannot be taken seriously here, as Anko and Hayate should not have been there at all. Not to mention Kakashi and Guy could not have fought in the Chunin exams as Gai was 7 upon becoming genin and at that time Kakashi was already a Chunin for an entire year. @Seelentau are you slowly adding information to the new timeline?? I'm eager to see Asuma filled out on it as he links to Kurenai and I think his info may further help with it ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:36, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Aren't the Suna IDs erroneous? I wouldn't bet my testicle on them. Also obviously chapter 599 is canon, Guy beating Obito and them being peers has been referenced more times with the whole: "you don't remember faces anyway" and shi* It's not like Kishi is suddenly gonna pull: "OH NO, Guy didn't beat Obito but some random generic ninja with just as fine ass as he has!" Events actually shown to have happened > numbers--Elveonora (talk) 11:50, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

But there lies the problem, there is MORE evidence for against that than there is for it. Plus we were finally given a number for Gaiden Kakashi even if it is from the producer of studio pierrot, which was 13. Go look at Seel's timeline again, it all fits pretty good. You are also forgetting Kakashi was a prodigy who graduated in one year, Rin and Obito were NOT. Databooks and manga in the entirety have more info stacked than Chapter 599 and the few scenes shown after that. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:21, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well, it's Seel's timeline, not mine, so his problem to solve ;) just stating my opinion--Elveonora (talk) 20:23, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Well I wish Kishimoto would come look at this wiki, after mastering the english language, and take over and put everything the way they should be, with our help of course. Because NO mangaka is perfect, but lots of small errors and retcons can be quite annoying and confusing ItachiWasAHero (talk) 23:19, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I actually agree with IWAH this time. The databook information along with the Anime weigh more than chapter 599. We probably should put this into the related articles, too. Anime information is still kinda official. Seelentau 愛議 10:17, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

So let's assume chapter 599 is false as it can be. But Kakashi still became a Chunin at 6 tho, that's both databook and pre-chapter 599 manga fact. So if both he and Obito were 13 during Gaiden, that would mean it took Obito and Rin 3 years to catch up with Kakashi only so they could form Team Minato. That doesn't explain tho how could Kakashi become a Chunin without Rin and Obito, could have he joined another team for the time being? And what was he doing those 3 years and why would they pair a Chunin with Genin instead of keeping him with the original team that had helped him become a Chunin? See? It's still problematic as it can get--Elveonora (talk) 10:49, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know what he has done in the meantime or why they paired him with a Genin team and all that. But I don't need to know that for the timeline, hm? Seelentau 愛議 11:05, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess Sakura proves that it may be possible to become a Chunin without being part of a 3-man Genin team and that perhaps such an individual may temporarily join another team to participate in the exams.

Funny thing tho, you take this into account for your timeline and assuming it's correct and Kishi messed up, in that case official articles will have it wrong still. I guess we will have to explain it somehow in trivia sections.--Elveonora (talk) 13:36, January 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * We have two possible timelines, none without faults. With the upcoming arc, however, we have more proof that the ID-timeline is correct and the chapter 599-timeline is wrong. The thing is, the canon anime states that the 599-timeline is correct (by including chapter 599), while the anime-only arc states that the ID-timeline is correct (by making Kakashi 13/14). Seelentau 愛議 14:17, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

I'm calling it, there are 2 Kakashis!!! 1 we know as a prodigy and the other one has a prosthetic eye and substitutes for the real Kakashi each time he comes late.--Elveonora (talk) 23:43, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

Well..
Seems Kakashi was appointed to Anbu at the age of 13 and not 14, since it was 10 months before Naruto's birth since Minato anounced to Kakashi she was now pregnant and made him an Anbu. We also find that Yamato was an Anbu when Kakashi was so Yamato as Kinoe was 9 years old. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:39, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ok so I did the math and what not, Nagato was born in September, Minato in January I believe, so it was 4 months after leaving Amegakure that Jiraiya became Minato's sensei, Minato was 3 years younger than the Ame Orhpans and Yahiko died at age 20 in the same year Minato became a Kage, meaning Minato became a Hokage around December 10th when he was 17, 1 month later January 25th he turned 18 and about 9 months later he died at 18, on October 10th. That makes him the youngest Hokage ever I believe. Gaara still has the title of youngest Kage ever I believe. But that means he was Team Minato's sensei at the age of 13 almost 14, and I def believe it as Itachi was 170cm tall, very mature, and already an Anbu Captain at the age of 13. So Minato was already a Jonin at 13 almost 14, which means he became a Chunin and then Jonin within him being 10-13yrs old. Jiraiya already stated he was so much of a prodigy and Ei stated nobody could beat him pretty much so I believe it 100% ItachiWasAHero (talk) 08:09, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't know how long Kushina as been pregnant when Minato told Kakashi.
 * We don't know what year Jiraiya left Amegakure.
 * We don't know at what age Jiraiya began to train minato.
 * We don't know how much younger Minato was than the Ame orphans.
 * We don't know what age Yahiko was when he died.
 * I don't know if I forgot anything. Seelentau 愛議 09:43, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

"We don't know what age Yahiko was when he died" didn't you say yourself you have translated it? Currently his infobox says 20--Elveonora (talk) 15:13, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, that's wrong. The pierrot guy says shōnen Yahiko was about 20. Chōji says Yahiko is looking 25-30. Corpses don't age. What now? Seelentau 愛議 16:12, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Well yeah I guess what I said here was a half speculation. But then again, they said Sai was naruto's age, he isn't he was a year older. I think by now we all know that there are errors and inconsistencies in this manga. We just have to go with the largest and most consistent amount of data. Yahiko was most likely 25 when he died anyways. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 16:25, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Now I am confused on the whole shonen yahiko thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dnen

ijdk... its safe to say they manga makes less mistakes than the anime, that's for sure. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 16:28, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

If he said about 20 and 25-30 can't we just leave it at 20 or say something like Age: About 20 or we can say that he is 20-25 cause he's not 30 Munchvtec (talk) 16:34, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

To me that means he was 20 at some point while alive. It should be noted however that the Inuzuka-bastar* reject Lava guy appeared older during his death than when he had entered, meaning some years must have passed--Elveonora (talk) 16:36, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

lol you mean Kyusuke, so lets just say 20-30. Munchvtec (talk) 16:37, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I meant Seinen, of course. Translated that wrong. Yahiko was about 20, Chōji says he's 25-30, manga > anime. Solved. Seelentau 愛議 16:53, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Elveo said something about kyusuke but nevermind, I added 20-30 in his infobox. It should be kept till a databook is released. Munchvtec (talk) 16:55, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

I believe if you actually think about it then its all canon in its own way, the way you guys do things it might as well be two alternate dimensions. Munchvtec (talk) 16:56, February 7, 2014 (UTC) Of course years passed. Maybe Yahiko was 20-25 when they founded Akatsuki and 25-30 when he died? Seelentau 愛議 16:58, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

Yes but I still put 20-30 why not leave it/ Munchvtec (talk) 17:04, February 7, 2014 (UTC)

"Seinen (青年) means "young man", a term used in the manga market to describe titles intended for an 18-30 year-old demographic ." So studio pierrot wasn't really making crap up really. But but 25-30 still remains, the thing said 20's not 20 right? So 25-30 is still more correct. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:31, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Aye. What about the other "we don't know"s? Seelentau 愛議 10:54, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

Other "we don't know's"?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 12:58, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't know how long Kushina as been pregnant when Minato told Kakashi.
 * We don't know what year Jiraiya left Amegakure.
 * We don't know at what age Jiraiya began to train minato.
 * We don't know how much younger Minato was than the Ame orphans.
 * These. Seelentau 愛議 13:26, February 10, 2014 (UTC)

Jiraiya began to train minato when he was 10, minato became a genin at 10 and was assigned to a genin team with Jiraiya as the sensei, this was after the second world war and after he trained the ame orhpans. he was in amegakure for 3 years.. Minato was anywhere from the same age as them, to 3 years younger, because jiraiya immediately went home after he trained them and it was shown in anime he came back and became Minato's sensei who was 10yrs old. So like I said, Minato can be at most the same age as Nagato all the way to 3 years younger. Kushina's pregnancy lasted 10 months, we do know that. Naruto was born 0ctober 10th, Kakashi did not turn 14 until the 15th of September, the month before October, in the episode that it was after Obito and Rin died and the third war was over that Minato became a kage and told Kakashi about Kushina pregs and Obito("died" at 13 born February) and Rin are the same age as Kakashi as established. So the time frame of Minato telling them. So Obito was 13 and 7 months when he "died" and 14 and 8 months when he attacked Konoha, which was 10 months after December 10th.

Ok so that means at Kanabi bridge Obito(13yrs7months "dies") Kakashi is 13 at the least.

Obito is 14 and 8 months on the day Naruto is born, Kakashi at 14yrs 1month.

A Jinchuriki's pregnancy term is 10 months so Kushina got pregnant in early December, Obito is 13 and 10 months, Kakashi is 13 and 3 months. Kakashi is 13 still when Minato becomes Hokage. Kakashi was at most 13 and 11 months when Minato told him about Kushina being pregs, and at the least 13 and 3 months. GEEZUS, that was annoying to type, well that narrowed it down. Hope the top post didn't look like jibberish.. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 05:45, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * "this was after the second world war and after he trained the ame orhpans." - How do you know that?
 * We also don't know if Minato was Hokage when they conceived Naruto, right? Seelentau 愛議 10:19, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * I added some of the stuff you mentioned, check it out ;) Seelentau 愛議 11:13, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Nice, The timeline slowly gets more complete. On another subject, I was positive that it was Kabuto at Sasuke's location, but Tobirama and Karin don't know the chakra at all so I wonder who it really is ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:19, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Anything else you guys wanna see in the timeline? I also want a source for "it was shown in anime he came back and became Minato's sensei who was 10yrs old.", please. Seelentau 愛議 22:28, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

The proof for him training Minato after Nagato is the fact that Nagato was the first person he thought could of been "The Savior of this World" and "Destined Child" that the toad spoke of, he later said the same thing/things to Minato, I am going to guess he said it after he was told that the Ame Orphans "died" which was only 1/3 true.. Either way Nagato was the first to be called the Savior of this World and or Destined Child, by Jiraiya after the toad told him about it. Think about it ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:05, February 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * In addition to that, Jiraiya's red markings extended all the way down his face when he trained Minato's team (chapter 122), meaning it was definitely after leaving Amegakure.--BeyondRed (talk) 04:49, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Good proof too man ^ Yeah Minato is 3 years younger than Nagato. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:06, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, fixed that one. Seelentau 愛議 10:46, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Additions to guide.
Ibiki, Genma, Ebisu, Raido, Aoba, Iruka. I think these are the next most relevant to add. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:15, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. Ignored chapter 599, too. Because you know, a one year old Hayate joining the academy is just wrong. Anything else? Seelentau 愛議 10:46, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * You never know what they add into baby food these days. Perhaps some growth hormones and shi* seems reasonable :P--Elveonora (talk) 16:05, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Wow man, this timeline is looking pretty damn good. I have to give props on this again. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:15, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks man, couldn't have done this without you guys. I added almost anything I can think of. Sadly we don't know at what age Inoichi and the others from that generation became Genin/Chunin, we only have their IDs. When Nawaki lived and died can't be calculated, either. :/ Seelentau 愛議 11:45, February 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now you mention it, weird. Nawaki's infobox lists him as a Genin, he died in a war didn't he? In that case they must have allowed Genin participation then.--Elveonora (talk) 13:53, February 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, anything else I could add? Or maybe, let's make a list with stuff we actually can't add right now because we don't know enough? Seelentau 愛議 17:59, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Basically anybody who doesn't have any databook info, or mentioned age data in the manga either, we can't list for starters. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:52, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Well, for starters we have Seelentau 愛議 10:11, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nawaki, whose ID and age we have, but not when he lived and died.
 * Inoichi, Shikaku, Chōza, Shibi, whose ID we have, but not their graduation ages. That also goes for a few other characters.

Yeah a piece of the puzzle is missing for a few characters such as those. Kushina was generally the same age as Minato, she was taken from uzushiogakure, was that before or after it was destroyed? because it was stated to be an immediate transition i believe, and during a war. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:24, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * That must have been before the village was destroyed. I'm thinking, did that happen before or after Nagato's family moved to Amegakure? Seelentau 愛議 16:34, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, regarding the graduation ages of Nawaki and the others, I might be on to something:
 * Fugaku (ID 004086) => Hiashi (ID 005159) => Hizashi (ID 005160) => Mikoto (ID 005348) => Nawaki (ID 005350) => Shibi (ID 005480) => Chōza (ID 005490) => Shikaku (ID 005491) => Inoichi (ID 005492)
 * Now, Fugaku obviously graduated some years earlier than the others. But the rest is really close together, I assume they all graduated in a time frame of two years. Is there any way we can use that? Seelentau 愛議 20:25, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * In theory we could, nice work. But we don't have any guaranty about what age they entered/left the Academy. The students in the same class/year may or may not vary greatly in age--Elveonora (talk) 20:55, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, we won't ever figure out the ages. How can we pinpoint the graduation times, though? Seelentau 愛議 21:12, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Just want to say congrats on the timeline I just read it and it's amazing, great job keep it up and if you need any info for it I have the three data books in English viz edition. Munchvtec (talk) 21:08, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * I own every Naruto chapter, databook and fanbook in Japanese, but thanks, though^^ Seelentau 愛議 21:12, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * No lies? 0_o like everything? Have you gotten that over the years or did you get them at once sometime?--Elveonora (talk) 21:27, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * No lies. I have the Japanese book of Hyō and Sha as actual physical copies and everything else as digital ones on my external HDD. Seelentau 愛議 21:51, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Apparently, Dan was somewhere stated to be "Tsunade's generation" meaning they were about the same age. Since he died as 27 years old, it happened let's say 27-28 years before current events, meaning he died 10 bNB. Wow, talk about going from one world war right into another--Elveonora (talk) 21:41, February 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Dan is in the timeline already^^ Seelentau 愛議 21:51, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

Uzushiogakure only scattered in the process of being destroyed, so it had to be technically after, that Nagatos family moved. In regards those bunch, we could give them grad ages if we count every 27-36 numbers and have someone in that group with a given age. Without a given age for at least one, it will be very meticulous and possibly speculative work to give them Genin ages. We also have to remember it can take 1-6 years to graduate the academy.ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:19, February 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * But Nagato lived in Ame way earlier than Kushina got brought to Konohagakure, hm?
 * We don't have any ages for any of those guys' graduations, unfortunately. :/ Seelentau 愛議 09:37, February 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * I would say it was about the same time.--Elveonora (talk) 13:11, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

I noticed you added Konohamaru as becoming a Genin before Part Two, but he was shown as not having a Shinobi headband yet when Naruto returned to the village in Manga though so how did you get this?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:39, February 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Before Naruto left the village, he showed Konohamaru the Rasengan. At that time, Konohamaru already wore the headband. Also, his Ninja ID is pretty close to the ones of Naruto's generation. Seelentau 愛議 08:41, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, but I thought that was the way the Anime changed it, and in the manga, naruto as wearing his new outfit showing that i was when he returned that he taught it to konohamaru?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:46, February 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nope, check chapter 428. :) Seelentau 愛議 10:02, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Ohhh I can't believe I forgot that.. nice. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:26, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

but wait.. is anything changed in the tankobon version ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:36, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

related to your edit
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User:Seelentau/NewTimeline?curid=119239&diff=854328&oldid=852779 what exactly is wrong with it? I can't even think, the episode screwed my mind so much that I don't even know where to begin. Also they seemingly contradicted themselves, previous episode claimed Yamato to be result of "cell injection" experiment, while this one shows him cloned in a tube as I said--Elveonora (talk) 13:00, February 27, 2014 (UTC)