Talk:Sage Mode

Slug Sage Mode?
Considering it's been confirmed that slugs (Katsuyu) come from the Shikkotsu Forest in the most recent chapter, and that is the only other place besides Mount Myoboku (Toads) and the Ryuchi Cave (Snakes) where you can learn Sage Mode. Logically, the third version of Sage Mode that Hashirama Senju used is probably Slug Sage Mode. But since it isn't confirmed, it cannot be added. But I think it's worthy of being put into the trivia. Thoughts anyone? 01:08, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I think what your saying sounds logical but like you said it's unconfirmed.Although im not a 100% sure about putting it in a trivia without further proof.Whiteraven1 (talk) 01:17, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * See the discussion on Hashirama's talk page. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 01:47, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Where do you get the "only place to learn Sage Mode" for all we know, someone can learn Sage Mode in their bed at home while watching TV.--Elveonora (talk) 11:31, June 21, 2013 (UTC) Because, Kabuto stated there are only 3 places to learn Sage Mode. From the toads at Mount Myoboku, the snakes in the Ryuchi Cave, and from the Shikkotsu Forest. Which has been recently confirmed to posses slugs. Considering Naruto learned Toad Sage Mode from toads at Mount Myoboku, Kabuto learned Snake Sage Mode from snakes at the Ryuchi Cave, and Hashirama Senju has a third version of sage mode that we've never seen. Logically, it is Slug Sage Mode. 14:13, June 21, 2013 (UTC) @Elveonora
 * Not true. Kabuto said he found the Ryūchi Cave which was equally as famous as Mount Myōboku and Shikkotsu Forest. Saying that those are the only places to learn Sage Mode is akin to saying that only Konoha-nin can learn Sage Mode then.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:34, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Absorving natural chakra as its secundary effects, almost impossible to be learned alone, because most of the people don't know that is even possible to absorve natural chakra and how to do it, it as to be teached or seen, and those three places being mentioned as the only places that someone could learn to absorve natural chakra i don't remember. Hashirama could easely observed how frogs do it, like Minato did with Rasengan inspiring into Tailed-Beast Bomb, and being Hashirama the most brilliant shinobi ever since Rikudou, he could developed his own Sage Mode. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:46, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's the point, there's no proof any animal taught him that. He could have managed to learn it by himself, theoretically--Elveonora (talk) 15:11, June 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah but besides if {a big if} Hashirama managed to create his own sage mode then what should his sage mode be called.Should it be called the Senju sage mode.Don't get me wrong im still debating about the whole Slug Sage Mode thing.But if it's later confirmed that this isn't slug sage mode then this is what it should be called.74.89.213.43 (talk) 16:36, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I highly doubt ANYONE even him can simply learn on his own sage mode. That is a ridiculous assumption. I believe he was taught by somebody one way or another ItachiWasAHero (talk) 05:55, July 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is an easy one, couldn't resist. Logic says, that there has to be first of something every time. Who was the first Sage ever (any species) taught by? Bingo, someone had to come up with it, that alone confirms it's possible to be self-taught--Elveonora (talk) 17:09, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well, that is true. We will just have to wait and see what explanation is given for it if any. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:15, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Reverting
Okay, there has been this small revert war happening where Hashirama's Sage Mode is being changed to Wood Sage Mode. Stop this now and explain why someone would want to change it to Wood Sage Mode. Joshbl56 12:33, July 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no discussion here, someone is simply putting a fanon name in because they think it sounds better. The only person to use that particular Sage Mode was Hashirama and until Kishi decides an official name for it, we will continue to call it "Hashirama Senju's Sage Mode". --Speysider Talk Page 12:47, July 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * fanon name? Seriously? -.- Look at his Sage Art: Wood Release: True_Several Thousand Hands, and notice that unless he has Wood/Trees Sage Mode, there is no other explanation for this. Besides, calling it 'Hashirama Senju's Sage Mode' sounds pretty stupid. Next time, try to think before canceling an edit. 13:37, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Shima's technique is called Sage Art: Wind Release Dust Cloud, her Sage Mode isn't Wind Release because of that. All Sage Modes with a confirmed origin stem from summoned animals. There's absolutely no evidence that his Sage Mode stems from his Wood Release. I'd suggest you try taking your own advice. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:58, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Gamakichi?
Seeing as he has been described as using a Senjutsu attack, should we list him as a user of Sage Mode? I mean, maybe we ought to wait for the better translations, but I think it's pretty clear there. --ScruffyC – Ash &#34;Scruffy&#34; Chancellor, the man who will become the world&#39;s greatest video game designer and change the world y&#39;know! (talk) 05:56, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, shouldn't only humans be listed as Sage Mode users? The Toad Sages use senjutsu without transforming and databook 3 only listed Jiraiya as a user of "Sage Mode", despite the toads being mentioned as users of senjutsu.--BeyondRed (talk) 22:04, August 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think, toads use senjutsu without transforming into sage mode. They are original user of senjutsu, they dont need to transform but humans transform to use senjutsu.--Salamancc (talk) 22:56, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * They do have to gather natural energy to use senjutsu though. The fact animals were not listed as users of Sage Mode does raise an important question. Has there been any reference in the manga of animals entering Sage Mode? Or do they only make senjutsu chakra and use senjutsu? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:40, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * One can't use senjutsu without sage mode tho. I don't think they are in an empowered state all the time. As stated, they also need to gather natural energy. And Fukasaku was strong enough to lift a giant boulder. With such strength, he would not have been killed by Pain, suggesting he was in normal mode when hit.--Elveonora (talk) 11:10, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * They need gather natural energy but they dont need to enter sage mode. Sage Mode is a technique which used by only humans.--Salamancc (talk) 18:44, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Says who? Unless it's stated in canon, you just made it up. Gathering natural energy and balancing it EQUALS Sage Mode, there's no difference. The latter results as a consequence of the from former--Elveonora (talk) 18:55, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Right back at you, Elve. Where was it stated in the manga that animals needed Sage Mode to preform techniques like that? Anywhere? I actually question why we add animals to Sage Mode myself. It seems that animals can more naturally use natural energy and sage techniques without needing the transformation their human counterparts require. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20:17, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) What part exactly? We know the toads need to gather natural energy because we've seen them do it. The fact which appears to have sparked this discussion is that Shima and Fukasaku are not listed as Sage Mode users in the Third Databook, despite some of their techniques being listed as senjutsu. That would imply that Sage Mode is a state in which humans are able to use senjutsu, and that animals, while also capable of using senjutsu, are not considered users of Sage Mode. We have to fine comb through mentions of senjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:20, August 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what I'm getting at. Completely agreed with Omni. Animals can do senjutsu without Sage Mode, which, makes the human users look more animal-like I might add. It'd be sort of... redundant? to make an animal go through a similar process. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:29, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't forget that there's the whole issue of Jūgo's clan's ability, and cursed seal being a mock senjutsu as well to murk up the subject a bit more. I'm half expecting Sasuke to be explained about some of it in coming chapters, only for us to learn that he can once again use his cursed seal over the flesh transplant he got from Jūgo way back when Taka was hunting Killer B, so he can have "senjutsu"/mock senjutsu that can damage Obito. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:38, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except humans are animals as well guys.--Elveonora (talk) 21:54, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

It seems like only animals that can be summoned (like the toads and snakes) are the ones that can use senjutsu naturally and also teach it since they can naturally absorb the natural energy. If it was all animals then I'm pretty sure the entire Inuzuka clan would be able to into sage mode since they are always with dogs. As for Jūgo, I thought it was mentioned that, while he can absorb natural chakra, he can't control it like the toads/snakes and that's why he goes on rampages? Joshbl56 22:19, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not everything is to be seen always through the scientific lens Elv. Josh, they did mention his clan couldn't control it, but the cursed seals Orochimaru made, some of its bearers could control it. See Sound Five, Sasuke. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:23, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * True that some could control it but it was shown that even Sasuke had trouble in the beginning (remember him trying to break Zaku's arms?). Going by the actual page, it mentions that Orochimaru created a method to actually help the body get accustom to the curse seal.  Joshbl56  22:33, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Omni, that's right, this is a fiction after all. But Kishi seems to have at least a basic grasp about biology and stuff. We weren't told humans have a creator in Narutoverse after all ;) and the whole Kekkei Genkai stuff is a strange twist on evolution. Anyway, I'm really sorry to ruin your little speculation guys, but "all animal techniques = senjutsu" is wrong, as Water Release: Gunshot wasn't listed as senjutsu. One who can absorb, balance and control/use natural energy is by default a Sage and since Shima and Fukasaku had to restore it, they aren't under enhancements all the time and as such, when they are, they enter Sage Mode. 3rd databook omitting them is strange, but it might as well be an overlook. It's called "sage mode" not "animal mode" and as far as I'm aware, their nickname is "great sage toads" and since they use senjutsu, it refers to that, not anything else.--Elveonora (talk) 13:09, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where is the difficulty in realizing that frogs and other species mentioned as using natural energy don't enter into Sage Mode but only humans? But as @Elv said and @TTF both theories discussed here are not explicit anywhere. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:02, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Again sucking natural energy and getting chakra upgraded to senjutsu chakra = sage mode. So they DO.--Elveonora (talk) 18:01, August 9, 2013 (UTC)