Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-30168130-20170319171713/@comment-734582-20170411143146

Starscream1998 wrote: But Naruto, Naruto doesn't have to be dark, edgy, gritty or any of that crap that people think makes a story more 'grown up' but the Shinobi World was established to be hell What i liked about Naruto is that it was both. It thoroughly and repeatedly established that the world is hell, and it most definitely was dark and gritty (or whatever the buzzwords are nowadays. same filling different packaging). The humor served to contrast that nicely, either as a coping mechanism (IE Naruto is annoying because he desperately wants attention) or as genuine relief. That despite being hell, people could laugh and have fun. that friends could be made even when it was unlikely, and that enemies could just be regular guys caught in a death spiral.

But that nuance got lost more and more. Even though the world was repeatedly shown to be hell, we have Naruto overcoming things with the Power of Love, when it so often makes no sense. Obito's remarks during the 4th War were all cutting really really deep, but all Naruto could do is respond with "well, because i'm a True Believer". It's a war where half the ninja population gets wiped out, but nobody actually kills an enemy to keep it morally clean.

IE: The zetsu are already dead beings from an age long past, and have essentially no chakra or personality or will of their own. you're not really killing people.

The Edo tensei are already dead, so you're not killing people

Kabuto was saved by The Matrix (Itachi having compassion for Kabuto was actually a nice point of nuance. I'd have done it differently, less deus-ex-machina style, but it was a nice point of nuance)

Obito was almost killed by Kakashi (the unfortunate implication would be that he literally killed his entire team. The fortunate implication is that he already thought that, plus it would actually kill a mass murdering psychopath with the greatest power in the world right now) but saved by Black Zetsu so he could sacrifice himself, so Naruto also technically didn't kill him, even though his actions directly led to it.

Naruto murders Kakuzu, but because Kakashi deals the killing blow his hands are technically clean. Meanwhile, Shikamaru straight up kills a dude and no fuss is made about that.

Naruto straight up talks Nagato into suicide. This is despite the fact that at least Nagato had a plan, whereas Naruto's answer at this point was...nothing. Nagato could've forcefully united the world, which isn't entirely unlike how world peace gets established in the end.

Time and again real problems are brought up (IE The Raikage wanting to kill Naruto to thwart Obito, since there's no indication whatsoever he can actually control Kurama and isn't just straight up handing Obito the prize) and brushed aside just as easily (Because power of faith).

Naruto was the only reason Pain assaulted Konoha, and bringing him in was tactically stupid while it was a legitimate belief naruto couldn't handle Pain, yet Tsunade just goes "you need faith!".

Naruto promises he won't let his comrades get killed as they literally are dying around him, yet the only retort is "just have faith!"

Why spend so much time coming up with credible, realistic problems and then defend yourself with "because faith!" Especially since Pain's plan was ultimately put into work, as the world witnessed a great destructive jutsu that made them aware of their weakness while the most powerful being in the world guiding them. It just wasn't Nagato that guided people.