Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-43403813-20190805194702/@comment-43403813-20190809202738

AsianReaper wrote: Sasuke summoning Garuda is explained by a couple things. One, Kaguya's dimension is linked to her Rinnesharingan, and he has the Rinnegan. Also, he's got a bajillion times more chakra than Nagato.

We don't know for sure that Kaguya uses her Rinnegan powers to access her dimensions, as it could be her Sharingan power, Byakugan powers (unlikely), or an inherent ability of her own. Even if it was her Rinnegan power, that does not mean Sasuke was able to summon in her dimension because of that. By that logic, if someone with a Sharingan was trapped in Kamui, they could summon anything they wanted in there, simply by possessing a Sharingan. I think that Sasuke was able to summon there as a result of the expanded summoning capabilities that the Rinnegan provides, rather than just allowing him to summon in Kaguya's dimension specifically.

No, Sasuke definitely doesn't have "bajillions" more chakra than Nagato. The most definitive difference that Sasuke has from Naruto is precision and skill. He relies on defeating his opponents quickly in order to reserve chakra, similar to Itachi. Naruto's monstrous chakra is how he kept up with Sasuke's skills in the first place, training with hundreds of shadow clones. By the point of Rinnegan Sasuke, yes he probably does possess more chakra than Nagato, but not bajillions. If how much chakra Nagato had expended in his assault wasn't enough proof for his monstrous chakra, his Uzumaki lineage is renowned and touted for the aforementioned, as well as durability and tenacity.

The only people that were sucked in Kamui that had emphasis on their abilities that I can think of were Torune, skilled with his bugs, Fu, who is skilled as a sensor, and Kakashi, who obviously possesses Kamui, so unless you're referring to the discussion surrounding Minato vs Kid Obito, I don't know what character/s you mean. It may be true that no one has shown the means to escape Kamui, but that doesn't necessarily prove it is impossible, and we haven't seen anyone with the Rinnegan trapped in Kamui without a way out to disprove Pain's ability to reverse-summon out of it. Moreover, as I said earlier, Obito stated that Kaguya's dimensions and his own were exceptionally similar, and the fact that a reverse-summon was achieved by Sasuke in one of her own, there'd be no reason to believe that the same is not possible in the Kamui dimension: a dimension so similar to Kaguya's. (Also, on a sidenote, it is claimed by a Fandom page accompanied with evidence that travelling through Kaguya's dimensions cost considerable chakra, but travelling to and from Kamui does no such thing. Hence, this would be a reason for Pain's longevity in executing several reverse-summons to rescue the paths of Pain from Kamui).

You made an interesting point about the chakra receivers in Pain's summonings. They may well just be regular summonings like a normal dog or a normal bird that Pain put receivers in so they can project the Rinnegan through their eyes. I didn't think about that before. But regardless, one of the Rinnegan's summoning benefits is that it can even summon people like Konan as well as animals, along with the paths of Pain, which is why I think Hagoromo used the Animal path in this way. If I recall correctly, there is no way to summon people without the utility of blood sacrifices, contracts or scrolls, unless the user possesses a Rinnegan. And when Hagoromo summoned Team 7, there were no such things put in place, aside from the typical black lined outlining that happens with every summoning made ever, which leads me to believe that he used the Animal path.

You make a fair point regarding the 17 Kage, but I noted in this edit earlier that travelling to and from Kaguya's dimension seems to cost considerable chakra according to Obito when he was searching for Sasuke, but this isn't the case for Kamui. Since Hagoromo was summoning them outside the dimensions altogether, it would probably cost even more. Although does it state whether all 17 kage use ALL of their chakra, or just some? In any case, Pain would be able to reverse-summon from Kamui without the expenditure of such chakra, and if we want to assume that reverse-summoning would still cost chakra unlike Obito's use of Kamui, it still wouldn't be much either.

I gave a rather flippant answer regarding Obito's training but I didn't realise you'd take it seriously lol. And I don't trust the databooks at all, as they claim ridiculous things like Hebi Sasuke being able to wipe out the entire Akatsuki. But my main point around Kid Obito was that he was less experienced with use of Kamui against OP opponents like Minato, so he may not have known that FTG could theoretically escaped Kamui anyways, that's it.

Actually, Pain's Shinra Tensei cooldowns do correlate with chakra used. Whenever Pain uses Shinra Tensei, the more chakra he pours into the technique, the greater the force of the technique. Konan even acknowledged that the amount of chakra that he poured into Chaotic Shinra Tensei was so great, that it would shorten his life span. Therefore, Shisui's ability cooldown is different to this particular case. And Deva path or any other paths looking fine doesn't matter, it's Nagato who would look extremely fatigued, as the paths of Pain are just puppets. For example, when fighting Hinata, Nagato coughed blood which made Deva path get punched by Hinata, but the Deva path still looked rosey.

When I said he wasn't phased, I meant mentally. He wasn't like "Oh crap now what do I do", he calmly said something along the lines of "I'll have to make Chibaku Tensei bigger then". So your general argument around Pain not expending much chakra except for Kakashi is not true, as he had expended a lot of chakra throughout the whole fight, so my original point saying that Pain's battle does not accurately represent his power still stands.