Talk:Paper Person of God Technique

Name
Wouldn't this be more like a "chasm of paper" or something? I mean, an ocean wouldn't split open like that, but a fissure in the earth would, to create a chasm. Yatanogarasu 02:08, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The name's temporary and will suffice until an official name is given to it by Kishimoto--Cerez365 (talk) 02:13, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

what about tsunami of the shikagami or sea of the shikigami.It sounds good to me. (from Raffe Ace Uchiha)

I put ocean because that's what the non-dialog text on those last two pages called it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:51, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Water on the sides
If you look closely, you can see the water of the lake around, and that Konan only used her papers to create a chasm in the center, rather than turning the entire body of water to paper. Yatanogarasu 00:23, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Someone finally noticed her using paper to form a wedge in the lake and, not idioticly turn the ocean into paper. Besides Konan has nowwhere near enough chakra to perform such an enormous jutsu--RinneganLov63 (talk) 01:56, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * While I doubt the entire thing is paper, you can't definitively say where the paper stops and the water begins. The paper is apparently beneath the water for the entire chapter and the water seen at the end could also have paper underneath it. ~SnapperTo 01:59, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, but it does not seem a very practical move against Madara. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:52, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Paper Angel??
Hmmm... just wondering about it, but... why changing the name to something as strange as "Paper Angel Technique" without even discussing it on the Talk Page? I mean, I can't see the "angel" anywhere, and I don't think Deva17 would do a change like that without even discussing it. I mean, has a new chapter been published and the technique has been named there? I'm quite confused...--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 21:52, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Konan says the name in the new chapter.--Deva 27 (talk) 21:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, the Japanese name would be Tenkami no Jutsu, right? --Ech0six (talk) 22:04, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * We should wait for the raw before putting a Japanese name.--Deva 27 (talk) 22:05, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely sure if she's talking about this technique. She says her 'Paper Angel technique' wore off due to using so much chakra, but note that she's no longer turning into paper either. ZeroSD (talk) 22:06, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought it was perfectly clear that the Paper Angel technique (shouldn't that be Kami Tenchi?) was the technique she used to turn herself into paper and fly, like the way she appeared before Jiraiya. She stated that that technique wore off as the paper fell of her. The (Exploding) Paper Abyss on the other hand simply completed.Rayfire (talk) 00:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Some spoilers have translated the jutsu as the Paper Person of God Technique. I don't think its refering to her paper form becaused thats already noted under Dance of the Shikigami.--Deva 27 (talk) 00:57, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw that translation as being credited to ShounenSuki. Either way, I think that Dance of the Shikigami is simply the turning into and controlling paper, this Paper Angel Technique/Paper Person of God Technique is the overkill exploding tags. It kicks Hanzō's technique in a sensitive place. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:20, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still, there's a distinct lack of, y'know, angel or person ness to this technique. And on the comparison to Hanzō's technique, agreed ^^ ZeroSD (talk) 04:04, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * How often do jutsu names match up with what they actually do? Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, Susan'o, Kamui, and Izanagi all come to mind. These are just names of Japanese deities and aside from sounding cool, don't really do anything to tie the jutsu they're named after together. --Ech0six (talk) 03:12, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tsukuyomi → Goddess of the Moon → Moon is often related to illusions in East-Asian myth → Extremely powerful genjustu
 * Amaterasu → Goddess of the Sun → Sun is made up of extremely hot fire → Extremely powerful Fire Release ninjutsu
 * Susanoo → God of the Sea and Storms → Powerful warrior and protector in Japanese mythology → Extremely powerful offensive and defensive ninjutsu
 * Kamui → Power and majesty of the gods → The ability to make things disappear from this world
 * Izanagi → One of the gods of Creation → The ability to create something out of nothing
 * I'd say the names match the abilities pretty well, actually. The Paper Angel Technique, in my opinion, is not the giant chasm of paper Konan created. I think it refers either to her ability to turn herself (and other things) into paper, or her ability to control that paper. When Konan mentioned her technique was cancelling, her hair ornament and all the other paper flowers started to fall apart. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:46, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought that was Dance of the Shikigami? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:06, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dance is likely her paper creation/control while Angel is specifically the transformation. It is telling that she doesn't say she runs out of bombs, she says she runs out of chakra to sustain Paper Angel. Considering her transformation actually gives her angel wings, I do think that's what she was referring to.ZeroSD (talk) 02:13, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree that this is the wrong name for this tech. And Dance of the Shikigame would be a different tech from the one that allows her eto turn into paper. That was specificially turning into a mess of paper butterflies to scout with. It's a little more complicated than just modifying her own body, nbreaking it down into so many parts dispersed over such a wide area, it's understandable why it would have a different name. BUT the most convincing argument I can think of to convince people of this is that pain was refered to as god and she as his angel. So she used the paper angel of god tech. Make sense? I know that sometimes the names of techs don't have anything to do with the tech, but how often is the name absolutely perfect for another tech and instead given to a tech where it makes absolutely no sense? It goes along with her title as angel. This tech should have a different name. Frankly how this was argued back in sept of 2010 and the discussion just seemed to stop and go no where I don't understand 98.71.122.74 (talk) 20:04, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * Please look at the last post before adding to it, you just commented on a 7+ month old discussion that's already been resolved.  ~ Fmakck©  (Images 20:14, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * To be fair, he did check the date and the discussion was never properly resolved as far as I remember. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:21, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, but the date of the last post was so long ago so I assumed the discussion was either resolved or it just died down due to no one really caring about the topic anymore.  ~ Fmakck©  (Images 20:26, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

The later point, that it just died for some reason and no one ever cared seems the more likely. That doesn't really make it right tough. She was refered to as the angel of god/pain and clearly made of paper with the wings. So paper angel of god tech seems to very specifically refer to that, and the point about the flower falling apart when she said she didn't have enough chakra to use it anymore, seems to really drive it home. 98.71.122.74 (talk) 20:32, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah

How about instead of us just arguing back and forth about this, we take a sort of step by step approach. First, part of this naming comes from the 3rd databook where people say dance of the shikigami was listed as her ability to turn into paper, so what exactly does it say and what pic is used? Is it the pic where she turns into butterflies or does it show her when she was the half-paper angel with the wings? I'm just curious if it gave a description or not, because it's listed in the reference section on the dance article, but the reference is not used in the text anywhere and references like that always bother me. If it's not cited in the article, why is in the reference section? So if someone has the 3rd databook, perhaps that is a place to start to actually come to a conclusion on this and end the argument for good. 98.71.122.74 (talk) 21:45, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * The databook reference cites the information in the infobox (rank, classification, etc.) A translation of the entry itself can be found here. ~SnapperTo 21:54, April 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link. That description only seems to talk about the butterflies though, it doesn't reference it as the wider ability to turn her body into paper. Am I wrong about that? 98.71.122.74 (talk) 22:03, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * Also, what is the reference to, "Confetti, dancing in the wind," after that? Is that just a caption listed under a pic or is that a tech? 98.71.122.74 (talk) 22:08, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * Yes, it's a caption for one of the images. ~SnapperTo 22:14, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense, and the text after that: By converting one's own body into countless small pieces of paper, they can move freely and have the ability to change form! It has many uses from reconnaissance to surprise attacks. Furthermore, the magical way the countless pieces of paper dance in mid-air, changing shape, gives them a fascinating charm. Is that a descrption that seems attached to the description of this tech, or is it sectioned off and referencing the pic of the guy being covered with paper as a general reference to her ability? I think this should be my last question about this, since if it's sectined off and doesn't seem related to the tech above, it seems clear that the dance tech is only about the butterflies 98.71.122.74 (talk) 22:22, April 26, 2011 (UTC)miah

Remote Exploding Tag
I would like in the infobox to note how she exploded all of those tags remotely, but does it count as a parent jutsu? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:20, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. All exploding tags, in a way are remote. What would a non-remote exploding tag be, something that blows up in your face? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

More like just timed explosives.--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 23:01, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * They could have been controlled by her remotely. Sarutobi could do it (admittedly, on a much smaller scale), so I'd say it isn't out of the realm of believability that Konan could too. --Ech0six (talk) 02:25, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Timed ones have a sort of countdown (i.e. 5 seconds), remote is like sending a signal since you are not sure when they will be in the right place. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 20:13, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

The signal to detonate them could be chakra. We know Nagato can do this similarly to control the paths and since Konan seems to have complete control over paper through, I'm assuming, chakra she can control explosive paper just as well.
 * Pretty reasonable actually. Chakra would be needed to move the paper she can use it to also activate the explosions. I am convinced, anyone else? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 05:18, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I prefer Messenger
If it can be translated a messenger, rather than person I think it should be. IMO it makes form a better name. "Telegram from God, six hundred billion explosive tags". =D Arrancar79 (talk) 18:56, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Bibilical reference
I think that this technique is a clear reference to the biblical episode in which Moses divides into two parts the Red Sea with the powers conferred by God. I think that this "information" should be added to the trivia section, given the numerous references and quotes to divine in the manga for Pain and Konan. --JK88 (talk) 20:57, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Kanji
I looked through the whole chapter #509 and #510, but nowhere was this technique named, so we should leave the kanji out of the article, until we get some information from a new databook or so... Or was it named in some special release? Seelentau 愛議 17:16, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is named in chapter #510 if I'm not mistaken. After the explosions stop, Konan has this very tired look and the flower in her hair falls apart. In Mangastream's scanlation, it was called Paper Angel technique. As usual, ShounenSuki checked the raw and got us the literal name of the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:26, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * She names it in chapter 510, page 7, frame 5. I have to say, though, I still think the "Paper Person of God Technique" is somehow Konan's ability to manipulate paper and not the technique described in this article. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:27, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * ^THIS. Any news about it? I think we should change the whole article, since it's obvious that she meant her paper body Jutsu and not the giant paper ocean. Seelentau 愛議 20:13, May 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand: If you're right, Suki-san, what's with Shikigami no Mai? Isn't that the Jutsu that allows here to become paper? Seelentau 愛議 22:03, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't know, to be honest. I think Shikigami no Mai might be her ability to move and manipulate paper, whereas Kami no Shisha no Jutsu is her ability to actually turn into paper. Maybe vice versa... —ShounenSuki (talk 23:06, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * ↑I was thinking the same thing only reverse--Cerez365™☺ 23:12, May 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Now, how do you intend to solve this? It's obviously wrong what is described in this article. But what is right? What could you write instead, until the next databook comes out? Seelentau 愛議 18:08, May 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although it's nothing life threatening and we could be wrong, we could always use this template.--Cerez365™☺ 18:33, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

No info is better than false info. I'm surprised no one has tagged this page with "false info".LordNaruto (talk) 16:16, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although I did suggest it, it's only the name of the technique that might be wrong, it's just like making up a name for a technique so I don't think it's necessary. A name change would be preferable with a mention of the "paper person of god" bit.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:27, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * So should we add the "false info" template?--LeafShinobi (talk) 22:13, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

Too early to make conclusions
About every discussion on this talk page remains unresolved. This page should be tagged until further information is revealed in future databooks. Zero info is far better than a misleading info.

It hasn't been decided if the whole technique was prepared beforehand or if it's only the exploding tags. Neither has the name of the technique been decided.LordNaruto (talk) 16:39, August 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * wrong name is not a big issue. It can be fixed later. As for the preparation thing, just as you said, "no info is better than bad info", I believe the page was silent on that. So the page is manageable as it is now.--Newestman (talk) 16:48, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Image
What exactly is wrong with using both of the proposed images? There is nothing wrong with using slideshows, they help to show technique better when needed.--Deva 27 20:48, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * One side believes the anime picture of the giant hole doesn't show the paper being inside said hole so wish to use the first image to show the paper separating the water. The other side doesn't like the slide show and expects the users the already understand that because its Konan, paper is being used on the water.
 * The issue is that instead of talking about it when the first conflicts arose, we had an edit war which resulted in me locking the page so that only admins can work on it for the next week.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 20:51, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh I did not see this. A user apparently dislikes the slideshow function greatly. Any way, I believe we should use both images at least for now (next week might give a better angle from inside the chasm). The way I see it is that the manga image actually shows that the lake is being split by paper not Moses parting the red sea. I also don't believe the paper flying around the image in the anime is good enough to depict that. The focus is supposed to be mainly on what the paper's doing...--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:52, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * As Cerez365 says, I don't see the issue in retaining both images for the time being, given that in just a week the close-up image that depicts the paper can be replaced by a far more appropriate one taken from the interior of the chasm. Blackstar1 (talk)

This is inside the chasm. I'm not too sure if someone could get a better angle or such, but there isn't much water so you don't get that "full" effect. For me I'd prefer we just left the manga image but if the anime's to be used it's going to need two images in my opinion.--Cerez365™ 12:55, March 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I say we make this easy and use the manga image and the equivalent anime image. To hell with "see the paper", I can't see the paper int he chasm in either of them anyway.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 15:15, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

False info ?
Which info is false ? It seems correct to my knowledge. --speysider (talk) 16:15, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the chapter the paper ocean thing was used, Konan talked about how her "Paper Person of God" technique was dissipating because of her having used too much chakra. However, she never specifically mentioned the paper ocean thing to be that technique. Therefore, the assumption that she was referring to this technique can be regarded as false info.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 16:33, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Considering the chapter is called An Unexpected Kinjutsu and she has not used any other technique than that, it's sure it. --Elveonora (talk) 16:40, March 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * There is also her 'turn into paper' technique, the one that actually makes her look like an angel. When she says that, the paper flower she's wearing dissolves as well, and she never turns into paper for the rest of the fight.ZeroSD (talk) 14:36, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

The unexpected kinjutsu of the title is Tobi's use of Izanagi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:45, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

[http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/509/16 Sealed within an ocean of paper ... a secret technique protects Nagato] Konan displays her ultimate paper technique, trying to send Madara into the abyss My paper angel technique wore off It's sure it, and also what you said Omni ... it can work both ways. --Elveonora (talk) 16:58, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Those end/beginning of chapter texts, I'm not sure how canon they are. They're not carried over to the volume releases. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:28, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

"Shikigami are said to be invisible most time, but they can be made visible by banning them into small, folded and artfully cut paper manikins. There are also shikigami that can show themselves as animals or birds." Also, the databook reference to that tech seemed to pretty clearly be refering to turning in to butterflies for scouting, a technique that would fit with that name pretty well. as far as the paper angel tech, the paper flower on her head fell apart and she lost the ability to turn into paper. Plus it fits her self-description as an angel. people are saying that the fact the other tech ended before she said this, and that seems to be the big basis for saying the huge paper canyon was paper angel, but two techniques ended there, as she pretty clearly lost the ability to turn into paper as well. regardless, dance of the shikigami refers specifically to the tech she used to turn into many butterflies for scouting. she even used a hand seal, something the never had to use for her typical paper jutsu, as it was always active. 98.71.103.43 (talk) 05:49, August 2, 2012 (UTC)miah

the databook specifically reffered to her turning into paper technique as the shikagmi dance not just butterflies. this is shounensuki's translation. Dance of the Shikigami[41] (式紙の舞, Shikigami no Mai) ■ Ninjutsu, B-rank, Offensive, Supplementary, All ranges ■ User: Konan

Butterflies performing a bewitching dance A beautiful "paper art" with an ever-changing appearance ↓ While the technique is invoked, all parts of her body start peeling off… [picture of Konan's head unravelling into sheets of paper]

[picture of Konan's body unravelling into paper sheets] ↑ Countless pieces of paper scatter, their shapes disappearing like an illusion… → The many scattering and dancing pieces of paper, are folded into the shaped of butterflies, like origami. The fly away, leaving nothing behind but their lingering scent. [picture of Konan's paper sheets flying away and folding into origami butterflies] Confetti, dancing in the wind

By converting one's own body into countless small pieces of paper, they can move freely and have the ability to change form! It has many uses from reconnaissance to surprise attacks. Furthermore, the magical way the countless pieces of paper dance in mid-air, changing shape, gives them a fascinating charm. [picture of Ryūsui's body covered in Konan's paper sheets, while Konan herself is partly reassembled and holding a paper spear] ← The enemy entangled in the paper looses all ability to move, allowing Konan to attack with a paper shaped into a weapon.98.26.246.240 (talk) 05:58, August 2, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

That's what I'm saying... Paper Person of God Technique is Konan's body transformed into papers, while Dance of the Shikigami is the butterflies and shit. Need to be changed, what she did against Tobi were simple in-before prepared exploding tags hidden there--Elveonora (talk) 22:35, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

ok you obviously didnt get what i was saying. the databook entry specificaly says that it allows her to transform into paper and manipulate it not just butterflies. heck it even adds her using a spear of paper as part of it as well as blanketing peoples bodies with the paper. we simply need to leave things as they are now until we get a databook entry (which hopefully will be soon).98.26.245.37 (talk) 01:24, August 3, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

What I meant is that "Paper Person of God Technique" refers to her ability to turn into a paper, while Dance of The Shikigami is turning into a paper.--Elveonora (talk) 01:32, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

ok i think i understand what your saying. paper person of god technique is turning into paper and dance of the shikigami is the practile application of changing the shape of the paper for things like scouting (the butterflies) and spears, restricting etc., it would make sense. so if we were to make paper angel and shikigami dance connected (like i just explained) then would we make a page for that paper ocean thing, cause it does seem like it is its own technique.98.26.245.37 (talk) 03:09, August 3, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * We're waiting for the databook to clear everything up. But more than likely this will either get an official name or be moved to something else because it's possible that Paper Person of God is her turning into paper and Dance of the Shikigami is the shaping of the paper etc.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:07, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

ya know i was thinking the same, but in reverse. but yes a databook entry confirmation is better to wait for rather than make rash assumptions.98.26.245.37 (talk) 11:19, August 3, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

神の紙者の術
She mentions this name long after her paperbomb chasm technique fails to kill fake Madara. She's obviously referring to no longer having enough chakra to dodge etc. by turning herself into paper. This checks out in the anime as well. Please change this to something like Konan's ultimate technique or something else.--Karunyan (talk) 11:02, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * We discussed this years ago, seemingly with no real conclusion. So let's bring it up again. My opinion hasn't changed, the Kami no Shisha no Jutsu is her basic technique to turn herself into and to control paper. Seelentau 愛議 14:48, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * But doesn't that take all the meaning out of Dance of the Shikigami? The first paragraph in that article says the exact same thing you just did Seelentau. The name Kami no Shisha is used only 1 page after she finished using the 10 minute exploding tags in chapter 510. The translation I'm using as a reference is the one from mangahere and says 'Kami no Shisha no Jutsu... Is over...I didn't think... it would take this much chakra,... But now...'. That translation makes it seem like the technique she used is called PPoG and that the reason her paper fell apart was the lack of chakra to keep up all of the paper she had used. Is there a translation of this chapter from someone on this site? I looked at ShounenSuki's Third Data Book Translations and the full chapter translations but there wasn't anything in there about this technique. Joshbl56  15:58, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * My stance is the same too. Paper Person is her into paper turning technique, while Dance of Shikigami is splitting into paper pieces--Elveonora (talk) 17:14, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay but what about the line 'While the technique is invoked, all parts of her body start peeling off… ' from the data book? That sounds like Shikigami no Mai is the technique that changes her into paper. Plus, outside of her using the one line after splitting the lake in Amagekure where else does she use this techniques name? I've half-heartedly looked but can't find anything. Joshbl56  17:30, July 1, 2013 (UTC)

Context is also important. Those tags would have stopped exploding independent of her chakra levels once have they all blown up and they were meant to last for only as long as his Izanagi has lasted and they DID. So her comment would not make sense if she were referring to the tags because they accomplished their purpose.--Elveonora (talk) 17:49, July 1, 2013 (UTC)