Talk:Dead Demon Consuming Seal

Orochimaru's Kusanagi Abilities
In the description of the Third Hokage's fight with Orochimaru it says that Orochimaru controlled his Kusanagi sword mentally. In the anime I know he motioned the sword with his fingers and it looked like did the same in the manga. Is that what was meant by mentally? Or is it something else? O_o --Mini9tailedfox 10:43, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I do believe he's controlling it mentally in both. SuperN 02:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

First Usage
Shouldn't it be listed that this jutsu was first used/shown in the first episode while named in the one currently listed. I'm going to change and unless someone can tell me why it isn't like that I'm going to fight until it stays like that. SuperN 02:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I for one diden't see it used, only Forth standing on Gamabunta and waiting. Jacce 06:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We all know he used it to seal the Kyuubi thats why. SuperN 13:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * But in the episode/chapter he didn't. He literally just stood on Gamabunta's head and then the next panel/scene was the Eight seal thing on Naruto's belly.--TheUltimate3 14:31, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Clone Being Used
Since the shadow clones each have a percentage of the users chakra spilit evenly through them, when they are consumed doesn't that mean the user only has to sacrifice chakra?
 * Doubtful as you're summoning the Shinigami who most likely gives you a time limit to do what you're going to do before taking your soul. Also remember he has to reach his hand through your soul before doing what you summoned him for so no running away. As a closing message: This is NOT a forum.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 04:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So it is a summon? 74.236.92.133 (talk) 20:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Technically, no. The Dead Demon Consuming Seal Technique is primarily a sealing technique, and while it does make use of the Shinigami's powers and calls him to the battle, it is strictly a sealing technique. If you really want to put a label on it, it depends on what you're focusing on more, the process of performing the jutsu, or it's overall effect in an opponent. In reality, all the Shinigami does is seal away a person's soul.--talk) 14:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Origin
According to Hiruzen Sarutobi, "It (The Dead Demon Consuming Seal technique) is the technique of the hero who saved this village." (Quote from episode 73 (12:21)). Since he says the hero, he must be referring to Yondaime. As an addition to that quote, Oro-kun backs up the theory by answering with "So the technique that sealed the Nine-Tails... is this" (12:31). Or can someone prove my theory on the technique's origin wrong? Hakinu (talk) 22:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody doupt that Forth used that technique to seal the fox, but it still dosen't say anything about Forth creating the technique, just that he used it. Jacce | Talk 05:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * To me it sounds like Sarutobi is suggesting that the Fourth made it... oh well. Hakinu (talk) 11:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Which part, cause to me it sound like "the technique that was used by Forth to save Konoha." Jacce | Talk 12:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as we know in part 1 hiruzen said that the 4th hokage used the technique to save the village we don't know the origins of this technique so we can't put anything as far as originsKiss on me ho she got me (talk) 13:00, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It was the '...technique of the hero' part that made me think so. Hakinu (talk) 15:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't derive strong meanings from small details like that in English. The series is translated from Japanese so there are a lot of cases where small pieces like that may show up that don't properly reflect what the author actually wrote. For something like that you'll have to have someone check the original Japanese and see if it infers the same thing. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 23, 2009 @ 16:24 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're right. Sorreh. Hakinu (talk) 18:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The latest chapter: 467 made me wonder... Wasn't this sealing method created by the Sage of the Six Paths aka Rikudo Sennin? In one scanlation (from \o/ - btw never heard of them) it is said: "that ninjutsu is passed down... the seal that creates a jinchuuriki..." Then again, another scanlation (from SleepyFans) says that the host seal system was created by him, but wouldn't this imply the same thing as what the others said: that the sealing method (which is part of the host system) was also created by Rikudo? The theory that Minato created the jutsu is least probable because, if I remember well, the scroll which Naruto stole contained that jutsu as well (they were all frightened that the Kyuubi might be unleashed with it). That scroll written by Shodai Hokage might contain info passed down from Rikudo Sennin (seeing how with the latest chapters it all ties up - Hashirama being the heir of the one which Rikudo chose as successor)- MadaraU (talk) 19:26, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * From what I could gather, the Sage of the Six Paths merely created Fuinjutsu, which is used to seal things. No idea whether this means that he created this technique, but I wouldn't say that. From what Sarutobi said, it's possible Minato created this technique, but it's not confirmed as far as I can see. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:12, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

The Dead Demon Consuming Seal isn't the only method used to seal the tailed beasts. For example, the Shukaku wasn't sealed in Gaara using that method, we dont know what the Sage used to seal the Ten-Tails in him but chances are, it wasn't this jutsu.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:49, October 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * A good piece of supporting evidence is the fact that he didn't die [immediately] afterwards. ~SnapperTo 04:14, October 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * We'll wait and see then. - MadaraU (talk) 11:54, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Contract?
During the episode when hiruzen summoned it didnt he say that whoever signs the contract? so does that mean theres a contract out there that you sign with the death god and that is how you may use the jutsu?-anymous
 * I'd like to know that as well. Was it in the manga or was it an anime only sequence? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:29, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I assume the original question is referring to who is able to see it? In the manga, Hiruzen says only the user of the jutsu (and eventually the victim) can see the Death God. ~SnapperTo 04:17, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ninjutsu
Is it just Fuinjutsu and Kinjutsu or is it Ninjutsu as well? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:29, March 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sealing jutsu didn't start getting secondary classifications until the third databook. So, just sealing. ~SnapperTo 04:17, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

soul sealed within death god?
does this mean that the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th hokage are doomed to fight eachother for eternity and never go to heaven? Yes.

Really? where did that say that is what it was?
I thought it hadn't been explained beyond some of her chakra was used. Chakra is energy, with the sole exception of the demons that does not mean personality (and look how much they have when not bonded mind and soul to a human). Thus Kushina's personality must have been fused in along with Minato's. Moreover, when the 3rd used it the seal did not leave any room for multiple seals, otherwise he could have just used a single doppelganger. Would have been harder, but his chakra would have been in better shape. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:47, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Future image change
When the anime catches up to chapter 504, can we use an image of Minato using it? I can't help to find that it looks better than Hiruzen using it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:37, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Seeing
In chapter 504, did Hiruzen see the Shinigame? He says "Those markings, it can't be... The Dead Demon Consuming Seal?!". If he saw it, I smell plot hole, because only the user and the to-be-sealed entity are meant to be able to see it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:48, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * i smell it too Omni... i thought that he probably would've just seen the seals that Minato made...but i'm not sure about the "markings" he meant --Cerez365 (talk) 18:54, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Likely wrong trivia
"Minato also implied that it is impossible for a jinchūriki to perform the seal"

This info in the triva is probably wrong, result to a bad translation. According to a Japanese translator on mangahelpers, boyakist4649, the correct meaning is:

"Minato was saying that he is not a Jinchuuriki, therefore the only way he could seal the tailed beast was through the Shiki fuujin. And even then, it appears as though that he could not completely seal the Kyuubi on his own, as he had to split up the Kyuubi chakra between himself and his son. I guess this further emphasizes how special each of these Jinchuuriki are in terms of being able to seal - and at times fully control - these tailed beasts." http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2001478&postcount=4

"Yes - that's what Minato said. Shiki Fuujin is all he can do because he is not a Jinchuuriki. He specifically says: "The sealing technique that I can use, since I am not a Jinchuuriki, is the Shiki Fuujin."" http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2001642&postcount=8

So I think that the triva should be deleted. --JK88 (talk) 00:33, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should get confirmation on that with ShounenSuki before doing anything. I'll take this to his attention. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Here's what ShounenSuki answered me ipsis litteris:

"It's a bit unclear what the Fourth means, exactly:

"And then I'll take the Kyūbi along with me... The fūinjutsu I —not being a jinchūriki— am able to use is... the Shiki Fūjin!" (「そして九尾はオレが道連れにする…人柱力でないオレができる封印術は屍鬼封尽！」)

It's left up to interpretation whether he means it's the only fūinjutsu he can use because he's not a jinchūriki, or if he can only use the fūinjutsu because he's not a jinchūriki. To me, it seems he is saying he can't use any other fūinjutsu but the Shiki Fūjin. It seems to be the most logical interpretation. Or I should say, it seems he's saying he cannot use any other fūinjutsu because he's isn't the Kyūbi's jinchūriki nor can he make himself one (because that would once again release the Kyūbi at some point).

Again, it's vague, but I don't think he's saying jinchūriki cannot use the Shiki Fūjin." Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:18, February 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your effort Omnibender and ShouneSuki: so the trivia can be deleted?--JK88 (talk) 00:46, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Just for now. Since it was something that Minato mentioned, I think we might consider listing the vagueness of what he said. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:38, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Jinchuuriki can't use the Dead Demon Consuming Seal because the Bijuu would interfere with the Host's Chakra Flow so they can't seal up the Tailed Beast for eternity?

Uzumaki?
Unless I missed a ShounenSuki translation in someone's talk page, where was it stated that this seal is an Uzumaki seal, and that the spiral is characteristic of Uzumaki clan seals? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:19, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bumping. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreeing with you. If there's no evidence then we shouldn't speculate.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:00, May 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * No one else manifested, I'm reverting these. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, May 31, 2011 (UTC)

Updating range
Considering that Minato was able to use this on the Nine-Tails from quite a distance, I'm updating the range of the technique in the infobox. Speak up if anything. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:12, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Spiritual Energy
I was just watching the anime episode where Naruto tells Kakashi, Yamato and Sai that Minato resealed the Kyubi, Kakashi responds that Minato probably sealed some of his Spiritual Energy inside of Naruto. Most of the manga translations that I've seen just say 'energy', though they might have missed that. I only noticed because I'm certain I heard Kakashi say "seishin enerugī". However, I haven't seen the literal translation for what Minato said to Kushina on the first page of Ch. 504. Should this be mentioned in this article or fixed on Minato's since it says chakra (assuming thus is correct)? Skitts (talk) 07:11, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * In the manga, Minato does just say 'chakra'. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:17, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Question
Minato said that Jinchuriky can't use this ... but at that time the Kyubi was already out and Kushina not his host, so how is it ?--Elveonora (talk) 10:31, November 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not something we can really answer without speculation.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:29, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Chakra and Soul
Minato used this technique to seal a part of the Kyuubi's chakra,and Hiruzen used it to seal a part of Orochimaru's soul...I mean,why there is this difference of chakra and soul between beasts and humans ? The same happens with the Phantom Nine Dragons Consuming Seal,where it absorbed the souls of hanzou's many ninjas and only sucked out the chakra from the beasts out of their hosts and did not suck their souls,as they were revived through the Impure World Resurrection.
 * Well I don't think tailed beasts have souls :s So it's possible that their "souls" = chakra. As for Hanzo and the Konoha ANBU those were two different techniques the Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals and the Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:52, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Humm,but doesn't those dragons from both techniques have the same effect over their victims ? Gedo Mazou was using them the same way as when sealing the beasts inside itself.
 * Similar effects, not the same; one seals the other one just rips out their souls. Else one of the techniques would be obsolete. but like I said it's possible that the beasts don't have souls since they're masses of chakra given life.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:28, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah,I forgot that they were created with the Banbutsu Sozo hability..thanks

Image
Take the watermark of TV Tokyo off the image. --speysider (talk) 13:13, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't we add both images of its usage to the page? --"Hello, I'm the Doctor; Basically...... Run. (Appointments?) 16:30, February 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Typically, for the jutsu page we use the image of the jutsu as it first appeared. Example would be the Rasengan page uses Naruto's use of it in first series as opposed to a picture of it in Shippuden. So for all extensive purposes, the image here will not be changed.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:27, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Taken souls
What about writing down the souls that have been removed? and of course only those we know. and maybe also those who had a part of them sealed away (Orochimaru, Kurama). --Kasan94 (talk) 20:59, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * What purpose would that serve?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:03, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * No greater purpose, but could be good to know :P just my opinion. --Kasan94 (talk) 18:56, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Info's already represented on the wikia.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:41, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia Addition?
Should it be mentioned in the trivia that despite the fact that the user (and successful use on the victim) of this technqiue are purported to be sealed away forever, both Hiruzen and Kushina seemed to imply otherwise? Skitts (talk) 04:21, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

It was not their souls that have spoken to Naruto, just chakra and mind. --Elveonora (talk) 05:34, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean they've stated otherwise O.o--Cerez365™ 10:07, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Elveonora I'm well aware of what that Kushina and Minato were.

@Cerez It's a bit confusing really. At one point, Hiruzen explained that the user and victim were sealed away for eternity, but as he was dying, he told Orochimaru that he would meet him in the afterlife (chapter 137, page 17). Then the Kushina that appeared in Naruto's psyche said that she'd meet Minato, even though she knew what fuinjutsu he'd cast to split Kurama. Skitts (talk) 19:08, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, that. I don't think we should extend information here beyond the point that they were sealed within the Shinigami. Generally, Shinigami are grim reapers that live in soul society who is to say that they aren't all in the afterlife just under different circumstances.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 19:16, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is Naruto, not Bleach. =_= There is no "Soul Society" in Naruto, or in actual Japanese mythology for that matter, so you're incorrect in saying "generally". 173.180.88.66 (talk) 07:41, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Another bit of trivia: in the episode The Third Hokage, Forever…, when Hiruzen dies after using the Dead Demon Consuming Seal, the Eight Trigrams Seal appears on his chest. 173.180.88.66 (talk) 07:41, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

The Eight Trigrams seal always appears on the user's body after using this technique, that's not trivia, it's just what it does. Also Cerez was joking about the Soul Society thing and as for the "generally" part, he's right, in Japanese media and as a general thought, the Shinigami of Japanese myth are basically equatable to the Grim Reaper figures of Europian Myth. So what exactly happens to those the creature eats is entirely up in the air. It looks like an evil creature, demanding the life of it's summoner, but it basically gives the worthy a pass to call on it to insta-own anything they feel like. Out of all the creatures in Naruto, that thing's purpose/motive are some of the most ambiguous and its entire use is by the good guys! --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 08:24, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect Trivia
Hello. I believe one part of the trivia is wrong; the part that says those who have been sealed by the reaper cannot be resurrected. In Hiruzen's battle against Orochimaru, Orochiamru attempts to resurrect the 4th hokage, who had been sealed by sealing the nine tails. Shinra Tensei.86.25.151.211 (talk) 09:01, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * It wouldn't have been resurrected. Notice the word "attempts": it means he tried and it failed. Even if Sarutobi did stop it, it would've stopped anyway because it wasn't able to do so. --Speysider (Talk Page) 09:06, April 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hiruzen was also noted to not be the one that stopped the coffin. Kabuto explained that it had simply failed.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 09:20, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Even Hiruzen didn't sya he had stopped it, but just commented that it had failed. Not sure what you're talking aboiut. O.o Skitts (talk) 14:26, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

This happens when you read bad translations and not paying attention --Elveonora (talk) 15:07, April 2, 2012 (UTC)

Seal
Should we write that the mark that happens on the user stochmach is similar to the seal of the nine tails that naruto has.--74.15.112.85 (talk) 02:38, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * So is every other known Uzumaki-based fūinjutsu. It just so happens that they use swirls a lot.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:37, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

Quick Question...
Ok, I just thought of this. If a shadow clone has it's own chakra network, couldn't it use this sealing jutsu in the user's place? --
 * You're a heck of a lot of chapters and years late on this. Hiruzen already displayed this. However, we don't know what effect that would have on the real body.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 03:26, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I know that. I've been reading every chapter since the first one. What I meant was, what if someone created a shadow clone, and then the shadow clone performed the "summoning" of the death god and did the sealing.

what about the fact that things that happen to the clone transfer to the user it happened with senjutsu training for naruto. the contract is (most likely) tied to the original caster of the jutsu.71.71.58.31 (talk) 15:42, July 29, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * I understood you and I answered your question as best I could. I assume you mean whether or not that clone could substitute the original person dying after using the technique and as I've said, we don't know because the one person that did do that, also died. Considering however that the Shinigami has to consume the soul of the caster as well as the target, I doubt it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:46, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

i agree with cerez. so does that answer your question?71.71.58.31 (talk) 17:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Translation
Doesn't Fujin mean like Wind God or Something?--Kieronrob (talk) 17:56, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, when written as "風神". What Kishimoto did with this name was join the words together sorta. Normally it would be Shi(dead/corpse) Ki(demon/ghost) Fū(seal/closing) Jin(consuming/exhaust)--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:45, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Uzumaki Clan technique
Isn't that confirmed pretty much?--Elveonora (talk) 11:39, January 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not at all.~ Ultimate  Supreme  11:52, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? Uzumaki possessed a mask to summon the Death God, the Shiki Fuujin's seal has the same design as Uzumaki sealing techniques and Kushina taught Minato, so how not?--Elveonora (talk) 14:33, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would say so. The temple, along with the fact that Minato learned fūinjutsu from Kushina and all kinda cements it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:41, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Any more opinions? This has been brought up already long ago, but earlier it was a speculation, now there's enough to conclude as such.--Elveonora (talk) 15:05, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this jutsu is at least Uzumaki-related, cuz seriously, Uzumaki Clan's mask was used to summon the Shinigami.--Omojuze (talk) 15:15, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Well, in short: To me it's quite certain, I'm pro--Elveonora (talk) 15:29, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Dead Demon Seal and Uzumaki fuinjutsu base formula share the design
 * It's hinted Kushina also knew how to perform Dead Demon Seal, but couldn't due to being a jinchuriki or something like that
 * Uzumaki Mask summons the Death God
 * Kushina taught Minato her clan's techniques
 * I guess you are right ^_^' ~ Ultimate  Supreme  15:34, January 30, 2013 (UTC)