Talk:Hand Seal/Archive 1

Proper naming
Would a more appropriate term for this page be Hand seals? These seals are derived from the taijutsu "hand seal" tradition by Feudal-era ninja to denote their style of combat. --Dubtiger 17:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
This Page might need to be flagged for vandalism. Check previous revisions for changing Technique names w/ the word "porn".

Proper naming in hand seal category
Some of the jutsu in the wikia list "Hare" instead of "Rabbit", and so on, should these be fixed? 74.236.92.133 (talk) 04:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Lightning Handseals
I just wonder how do Sasuke use some of his lightning justus(in Shippuden) without a handseal while according to this article it is required for a ninja to use a handseal/s to perform jutsu..? Here are some Sasuke's justus who don't have handseals:
 * Chidori Senbon
 * Chidori Current/Stream
 * Chidori Sharp Spear

and there's also the other one called Limelight(Shippuden episode 66 I think..) and sometimes Kakashi don't use anymore a handseal in performing his Raikiri...

And even a skilled ninja must use at least one handseal(for example Nidaime)to perform jutsu, then why Sasuke's lightning techniques don't even have one handseal?

Then again, I'm just focusing about the Uchiha clan--sorry for being an interrogative person.. (I'm just asking by the way, so please answer nicely)--Sasunaruitakashika (talk) 17:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I have a theory, but I'm not so sure if it's legit.

During his KGB training for chakra nature manipulation, Naruto was able to call forth wind chakra without making any hand seals. In theory, Sasuke is doing the same thing, except with lightning chakra instead. He summons forth the lightning element without any hand seals, then shapes it to form his variety of Chidori techniques. Mohrpheus (talk) 18:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a theory too, not all techniques use handsigns, for example, many of guren's crystal techniques, and in some cases, a "half tiger sign" can be used in stead of the normal hand sels. Also, sometimes certain techniques(such as the water clone technique) can be done without handsigns(such as in kisame's case when he was battling with gai), despite the water clone jutsu needing the tiger handsign, so maybe after practicing a justu enough the user can use the half-tiger sign, and then with even more training(or just experiance from usage) the user can do it even without ANY handsign. One last thing, maybe these techniques don't even need hadsigns in the first place(although the raikiri is shown to need them, so if he didn't use them once, I bet this isn't the answer, although that part could simply be an error, or they ran out of time and decided to delete that part, or something like that).--WhiteWizardOfWater (talk) 04:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Read the chakra Page and it syas that ninjas can use some ninjutsu without handseals but the handseals help to concentrate chakra Narutosagemaster (talk) 06:01, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

also it says that "Through various methods, the most common of which is hand seals, the chakra can then be manipulated to create an effect that would not be possible otherwise, such as walking on water." Narutosagemaster (talk) 06:03, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, when fighting kakuza, he uses an earth hardening jutsu and did no hand signs, but later it is said by himself that kikashi was able to read his earth seals extremely fast. I always just figured that they DO all use handseals, but just use them extremely fast. Also, think of it this way, using the hand seals takes up space/time in the manga/anime that is probably better spent giving us more actual story than panels/minutes worth of hand seals every chapter/episode...and if asked, the writer would likely say 'they just use them really fast'--SkyFlicker (talk) 17:03, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kakashi was reading the hand signs of the hardening jutsu just before Choji tried to take out Kakuzu in the end of episode 83. Jacce | Talk 20:09, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

in the manga kakuzu is shown using the snake seal.

New affiliatons?
Some of the hand seals say that they have new affiliations, such as the monkey being associated with lightning release. Where is this information coming from?

During the battle with Pain, the ANBU that tried to counter Animal Realm's summons, used Wind Release and Lightning Release techniques. They each only used one hand seal for their techniques. The ANBU that used Futon used the Dragon hand seal, while the one who used Raiton used Monkey. Further in the recent chapters Darui used monkey with his Raiton. Also monkey is present in the basic Raikiri hand seal sequence, while I believe Ox should also be associated with it, because it was Kakuzu's Ox mask that used False Darkness.Rayfire (talk) 16:25, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * One technique using a single seal doesn't really mean that the seal is associated with that Release, that would require several techniques of that element being shown to use it, like Fire, Earth and Wood have shown. From the ones on the page right now, I don't buy Lightning with Monkey (clearly an Ox association as already mentioned), Rooster with Water (not that common in the many techniques we have listed), Dragon with Wind (there are hardly any Wind Release techniques which use hand seals, I think only two wind techniques use that seal) and Ram with Crystal (Boar, Tiger and Monkey appear as much as Ram in these). I'm taking those out until there's more discussion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:00, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we shouldn't be connecting hand-seals to elements at all, unless there was a clear indication of it in the series. Like with Fire Release and Earth Release, both of which had their associated hand-seal clearly shown in the manga. For the rest, it seems the way the hand-seals are drawn is simply too inconsistent and that's even without bringing in manga VS anime canonicity. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:14, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Yinwater formation?
I was wondering about the yin water seal while reading the manga when I saw an unusual seal in chapter 49 (when Orochimaru gave sasuke his juinjutsu). I looked the hand seals for the jutsu up, but all I could find was a reference to a secret hand seal that didn't seem to match the context this was used in. So, I ask the question, is that seal the secret seal of that juinjutsu, or is it the yin water seal? 75.154.90.211 (talk) 01:42, November 15, 2009 (UTC) -Tor Tion'Me'Ru'Manda Uliik'Ad Diryc'Goyust

I'm not sure about your question, but the article did say the handseal was unknown and when I was running through the anime of the battle on slow speed I noticed that kakashi formed this seal:

Jin handseal picture

This handseal was followed by the three handseals specified in the bottom text as following the jin handseal so I believe that this is the jin handseal --123.211.193.87 (talk) 12:18, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Other Hand Seals
Um, who here has proof that Yamanaka clan's Mind Body Switch Technique "Hand seal" is real hand seal and not just a targeting sight? Otherwise i see it as speculation... Simant (talk) 23:41, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sakura recognized the technique by the hand seal when she and Ino fought just after the second part of the Chunin exam. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:54, November 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm.. in the anime yes they do say signs, and Ino says "hand sign." But in manga chapter 72, I don't see them referencing the hand signs at all, though I should ask Shonen. Though I do notice another unique hand sign when she releases the jutsu. Simant (talk) 00:45, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Sakura does directly refer to that hand seal as a hand seal. In fact, in the official fanbook, there is an article about hand seals and this hand seal is used as an example of a hand seal that is not one of the twelve basic hand seals.
 * I've used the word hand seal far too often there... What an annoying word. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:40, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically two words. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:14, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * That actually depends on your definition of what a word is ^^ but you're right, two words. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:05, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Okay then; now how about shion's new hand seals, should we include them as well on this page? Simant (talk) 21:47, November 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Where's the kanji for this??? --GoDai (talk) 05:09, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

The Jin seal is performed like the Dog seal, except the right hand is closed.--190.82.165.52 (talk) 02:28, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

DOG AND HALF TIGER SEALS
1.I think that the dog seal is also commonly affiliated with wind release because if you look at danzo's Fūtons they all end with this seal...please mention this in the page. 2.we have another unique hand seal...(i don't know its name but)half tiger seal...the one that is with the index fingers only(instead of index and middle fingers)a great example is danzo's Wind Release: Vacuum Great Sphere...mention this too. --94.183.157.132 (talk) 06:18, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Haku's seals
Hey guys, I think I figured out how Haku seals from "Thousand Flying Water Needles of Death" jutsu are made. I watched epi 13 slowly and I thought he could have made the normal seals just with the left hand. Just see the dog seal example: the right hand is closed and the left hand is straight. I searched a little and conclude my hypothesis. Here are the 8 seals shown in the anime and each one I identified (I just really don't know what is the third one...)

1º tiger

2º dog

3º ??? (I thought it could be the monkey seal, but it's improbable...)

4º maybe rabbit

5º ox

6º boar

7º bird

8º rat

Just to remember: it's just a hypothesis made by me, I can be wrong. Any doubt just watch episode 13. Bye --Rubião February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Someone's gotta change the Haku's seals part, because it makes people confused and think that the seals for the Demonic Ice Crystal Mirrors can be done with on hand, when it's actually the seals for Thousand Flying Water Needles of Death that can be used with one hand. --GoDai (talk) 03:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Is the Jin Seal Really in Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique?
I just noticed that on this page it says that the Jin seal is used in the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, but on the page for the technique under doesn't include the Jin seal under "hand seals". This is a major inconsistency, so could someone clear this up? --Ensign Tylok (talk) 21:17, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

mudras
those seals are called mudras and are of buddhist origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudras

this article may help this one

I knew about that already, but truly, naruto's hand seals aren't exactly mudras. the idea of hand seals came probably from these mudras, the "real" hand seals. --Rubião March 16, 2010 (UTC)

the article below talks about the influence of the mudras in ninjutsu that're called by them "kuji-in"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuji-in#Meanings_in_Ninjutsu

187.52.19.69 (talk) 17:05, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

But the animal are from the china zodica. How are they relate to the mudras?????

Mudras, or kuji-jin, are related to ninja and Hand Seals in Naruto. Hand Seals are basically based off the mudras. The Chinese Zodiac is also used in other Asian nations such as Korea and Japan, up to this day. For example, the video game Ōkami made use of the Chinese Zodiac. --GoDai (talk) 21:33, April 16, 2010 (UTC)

Reverse?
Does it matter which hand goes over which hand, which hand's fingers are on the front, etc.? I think the manga sometimes shows the right hand over the left in Ram. Anyone? Most ninja do what I mentioned above. Is it safe to assume all seals can be used the othere way around, like mirroring? --GoDai (talk) 05:09, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

I would assume so. The picture shows left over right for the ram seal while in the Chunin Exam prelim room the statue shows right over left

Stats
Are these hand seals the same as those mentioned in the stats chart or is the stats showing the chakra control. 130.236.152.230 (talk) 11:38, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I believe that the "hand seals" in the character stats represents the speed at which the character can perform hand seals (hence uber Itachi's 5). ~SnapperTo 17:33, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not "seal speed", but "seal proficiency and knowledge of seals". Naturally, the more you become proficient with them, the faster you'll become at using them.

Actual Appearance of Hand seals
Should we label how the seals are formed, such as "Index and middle finger raised, ring and little fingers interlocked" for Tiger? The bird seal has some inconsistencies throughout many articles. Also, is it important which hand is above which in hand seals, and/or is it something to do with being either left- or right-handed? --GoDai (talk) 22:21, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it changes for right or left handedness. Not sure if it is necessary to say how they're formed if they're the ones in the image, just the non standard ones. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:25, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It can be a little confusing if Kakashi is facing us instead of us looking at the back of the hand seals. For example, it is not clear for Bird/Rososter, as in Orochimaru's fight with the Third Hokage, I remember the bird seal being "Folded thumbs pressed together, index and middle fingers interlocked inwards, and the ring and little fingers raised," but according to the page of Shadow Sewing Technique, Rooster is listed, and when it was used, it was "Thumbs pressed together, index and little fingers raised, and folded middle and folded ring fingers pressed together inwards." These may both seem the same at frontal view, but the folded fingers are different. --GoDai (talk) 22:36, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Out of the twelve standard ones, the bird is the only one that is difficult to see what it is when seen from the front. I thought the same as you about which fingers were up and down. If they're not the same, this can also be confused with the seal Choji uses for his expansion techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:49, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I think it is safe to assume the Second Hokage was using the bird seal, and the side view can be seen in that chapter. We know the seals for the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique, and I think he was using the last. --GoDai (talk) 05:04, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

I found out that the Shadow Sewing Technique indeed uses the Bird seal, and the movie probably had a mix-up with another seal. The seal in side view is identical to the seal Tobirama Senju uses for the Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique. --GoDai (talk) 00:22, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I know this is an old conversation, but it seems some people do Bird with their middle and ring fingers folded, and some others fold there index and middle. Maybe it varies between techniques.ZPRN (talk) 19:07, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Fid more hand seal images
try to find as much hand seal Jutsu pictures,for example water style: water dragon jutsu hand seal picture.

kakashi's doujutsu hand seal
you can add another hand seal to your list...the one that kakashi used just before he activated his mangekyo sharingan and used kamui on deidara --173.236.83.93 (talk) 19:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That was a Tiger seal, just positioned in front of his eye. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:44, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

no look closer the index fingers are down and pushing each other i swear

Monkey handsign not anatomically possible
i keep seeing the images for how the monkey handseal looks and both the example ones and the one where naruto is doing it, its two hands of the same side you cant have your thumbs on the same side if you are putting your hands palms facing eachother (and they are, look at the fingernails) which they are in every picture i see. it doesnt particularly have anything to do with this article because its an illustrator error. but i just thought i'd note it cause no where have i seen anyone bring it up. Viperaspec (talk)


 * One of those is a pinky, not a thumb. ~SnapperTo 18:53, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

that makes sense, its just the way it was drawn in the anime made it look awkward. 72.37.171.164 (talk)

Anime Byakugan Seals
The article says some are different than the basic twelve? Which episode is this referring to?ZPRN (talk) 18:53, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Eyes
In Shippuden episode 191 Hanare was able to weave hand seals with her eyes. Is this a normal shinobi ability or a kekkei Genkai? Or something else
 * Please sign your posts. Since this is an anime-only thing, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It is definitely not a kekkei genkai, because Kakashi was able to copy her technique with the Sharingan, which wouldn't be possible if this was a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:57, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Kisame uses one hand (Half Tiger) to initiate Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave
Looking at the manga, I find it very obvious that it's not a Ram, it's the Half Tiger (or Half Ram) when he uses Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave. It's in chapter 471 page 15 in panels 7 and 8. His left arm is clearly still in his robe. On the page before that, his left arm starts merging with Samehada, and on the next page, it is still merging. That means that there's no possible way his left arm was involved in the seal. So, it's obviously the Half Tiger or Half Ram.


 * I find the manga unreliable when it comes to claims of hands and uniqueness. If Kisame had the same one-handed capabilities as Haku then I think it would have received special attention, not a couple of panels of "is he or isn't he?". ~SnapperTo 19:21, March 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Anyways, Kakashi only made a big deal out of Haku's usage of one handed hand seals, despite the fact that Zabuza made a water clone with a single hand during their initial encounter. That implies that there's a difference.Ryne 91 (talk) 19:24, March 31, 2011 (UTC)

Wrong naming of Certain Seals
I would say just refer to chapter 503 of manga where Minato uses his dead demon seal

Like the one which is shown as horse is actually bird The hare seal is actually the bird And the one which shown as the bird seal is actually Rooster seal

Source http://www.mangareader.net/93-55672-19/naruto/chapter-503.html--
 * They were apparently mislabelled, the kanji here matches the names of the seals. You can cross check on the article page.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:03, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Seal of Reconciliation
Any particular reason for it not being listed here, or just an oversight? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:32, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

shino's
shino use one hand seal when he fought guren crystall

Hand Seals With One Hand
Besides the mentioned, didn't Itachi also perform hand seals with one hand during his fight against Kakashi, Asuma, Kurenai and Guy in the first part? At least it what i do remember.

Sasuke and Chidori
The article says that Sasuke have mastered Chidori so he can use Chidori without using any hand seals but doesn't he need to use hand seals to use Chidori? I mean in part two he uses hand seal (at least against Killer B) and because he has mastered it he use less seals instead (I think it's the same as Raikiri, and still talking about Sasuke vs B) --UchihaFan98 (talk) 18:14, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Twin Rising Dragons
Should the arm movement that Tenten does at the end of Twin Rising Dragons be considered an unknown hand seal?( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nytwg7K6ME ) <--- That's the link to a Twin Rising Dragons video if you don't remember what it looks like. --Ampm123 (talk) 22:59, September 18, 2011 (UTC)Ampm123

Anime hand seal sounds
In the anime, each village apparently has a sound when they perform either a hand seal or a line of hand seals. Should this be mentioned (eg the anime-only characters Renga/Jiga/Ruiga had the Hidden Mist Village sound effect, probably suggesting they came from the Land of Water and so on) ? --speysider (talk) 17:40, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

lol i never noticed such thing, are you sure each village has a different sound ? O-o --Elveonora (talk) 18:53, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Yup, the sounds exist. Just play back any time a ninja from the Leaf, Sand, Mist, Stone and such village uses hand seals to activate jutsu, there'll be a different sound effect for every one of them --speysider (talk) 18:56, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

I never noticed a difference between villages, but sometimes, I can hear different sounds for different seals in the same technique during the same sequence for a single technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:26, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

The villages all have different sound effects, look back at some episodes like the Forest of Death section, which is a good example of multiple sound effects for each village. What do you mean by "I can hear different sounds for different seals in the same technique during the same sequence for a single technique." as it's quite a tongue-tie to say :P --speysider (talk) 20:29, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Say Jiraiya uses a technique which requires six hand seals. During the sequence of those six hand seals, even if the focus isn't on him (that being, he's offscreen), I can hear two or three different hand seal sounds. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:35, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, when they are performing the seals themselves. That is standard between all the ninja, but each party has separate sounds. For a really obvious example, all Akatsuki members have the same sound effect when they finish their hand seal sequence for any jutsu they perform. The same is true for every other shinobi village. --speysider (talk) 20:40, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, you mean the jutsu activation sound ? --Elveonora (talk) 21:48, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the jutsu activation sound is different between every village. --speysider (talk) 08:16, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Dodai's unique seal
In chapter 555 Dodai uses a unique looking seal with his thumbs, index and pinkie fingers touching and middle and ring fingers curled up before casting his Rubber Ball jutsu. I don't remember ever seeing that before. Someone should add that one to the page.68.62.50.139 (talk) 01:12, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the bird seal friend.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:15, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about that. It's very similar, but the bird seal has the middle and ring fingers locked together, while Dodai's middle and ring fingers aren't touching at all. The bird seal is also oriented differently, in the bird seal the pinky and pointer fingers point upwards while Dodai's are pointing forward, away from the body. 68.62.50.139 (talk) 17:50, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen the thumbs always point outwards. As for the fingers interlocking, I believe Shikamaru (or a Nara at least) has used it like that before.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:55, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Measure What?
I've been meaning to ask this for a while. What exactly does the Hand Seals category in a character's stat spread measure? Is it the speed that they can string them togwther or what? Skitts (talk) 01:43, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Either that or chakra control quality. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:10, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I was about to ask the same thing ; ) EDIT: It's most likely chakra control as the former is already covered by "speed" stat --Elveonora (talk) 23:18, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Different hand seals for the same jutsu?
Why do different people use diffrent hand seals for the same justu? and why are there hand seals I mean what do they do? --86.166.27.205 (talk) 11:53, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why dont you read the article?  http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (T@lk) 11:54, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's in the article nor is it something we can answer.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:02, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I meant that for the second part.  http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (T@lk) 12:03, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * To make it more easy to understand, I meant "All that we know is there in the article"  http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (T@lk) 12:06, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I thought you meant the first bit. Yeah that they can read about in the article.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:17, July 11, 2012 (UTC)

pig or boar?
i thought the chinese zodiac animal was "the pig" but the hand sign based off of it is called "boar", a little confused here. --Caseather (talk) 03:51, July 16, 2012 (UTC)