Talk:Demonic Statue of the Outer Path

character?
I have a stupid question, how can a statue be a character. Simant (talk) 22:55, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

well he is a sommened creature (sorry for spelling)--Bleach boy (talk) 23:00, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * Summoning: Rashomon is a summon as well but it is not a character, it even has a face. Who said this was a creature? Simant (talk) 23:02, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well now that you mention it.I really think that we should cancelit as a character and put it as a jutsu.--Bleach boy (talk) 23:06, October 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * It has two jutsu pages already... i suppose it was listed as a character because it can do jutsu, so that means it can use chakra and that means its alive. weird. Simant (talk) 23:08, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

How could sasuke synchronize?
Because Nagato is dead, and since the Demonic Statue requires the Rinnegan to summon. is it safe to say that Madara will give the Rinnegan to Sasuke so he can "synchronize" with the statue???--Silverblade1 (talk) 21:44, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing that says if one is to synchronize with the Statue they must have the Rinnegan. ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 21:52, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

yeah, thats what cunfuses me, go to the Rinnegan page, then scroll down to the bottom and click on the "List of Techniques that use Rinnegan"...it shows all the six path techniques, but also Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path ??--Silverblade1 (talk) 21:58, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

You need the Rinnegan to summon it but I think to synchronize with it you have to be a descendant of the Sage of The Six Paths (Uchiha Blood is counted too). Anyone noticed that it resembles the Ten-Tails? Maybe it was left behind by the Sage of The Six Paths to people who posess the Rinnegan incase they needed the Ten-Tails' Chakra for good?Shabih (talk) 16:03, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Dragon Spirit.....monster...thing pics
I took some screen caps of the dragon thing, here's what i got. WhiteArmor - (Talk) - 06:38, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's nothing closer to the manga counterpart? Soul removal and all that? ~SnapperTo 18:21, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

It's possible to get a screencap of the soul removal, though I must say, I quite like the one with the dragon thing looking at Hanzō. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:09, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I wanted one like the manga as well, but sadly, i couldn't get a shot like that. - WhiteArmor - (Talk) - 07:28, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Statue
here's a pic, use if you need to. - WhiteArmor - (Talk) - 06:43, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

This is not a Forum
As Narutopedia isn't a forum you cannot post theories like this-

"The statue also bears a resemblance to the silhouette of the Ten Tails, the key differences being a blindfold over it's one eye and Its tails cut down to stumps. One of the tails completely cut off so it appears there are only nine."

-If you want to hypothesize about the statue, join a forum.

i agree

More Buddhist References
I believe I've mentioned it elsewhere on this wikia, but the Gedō Mazō bears a strong resemblence to some famous statues of the Buddha when he was still a practicing ascetic, a form of belief that he'd later describe as an "Outer Path" that prevented one from reaching true enlightenment.

In the most recent chapter, the Gedō Mazō is shown sitting in a meditative pose atop a lotus flower. The Buddha is sometimes depicted as sitting atop a lotus flower, which symbolizes someone who overcame the pain of the material world and has become enlightened, just as the lotus flower grows in dirty water, but blossoms on the water's surface. 66.220.139.66 (talk) 22:37, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

why
Why does this summon have affiliations but not users? --Rigoberto60 (talk) 15:55, April 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Summoners aren't listed in the infobox. ~SnapperTo 16:24, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Where was this stated?
"With Sasuke not ready to sync with the statue during the Fourth Shinobi World War, Madara summons it on the battlefield to find someone else to synchronize with it."

Can someone show me where this is stated in the manga? Iffy88 (talk) 19:38, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Madara says that he needs a substitute in manga chapter 536. He doesn't directly state that he needs someone to synchronize with it, but, considering he needs to capture the Tailed Beasts and isn't ready to synchronize it to Sasuke, I'm assuming that what he meant is that he needs a substitute to synchronize in the meantime. I'm assuming Nagato was synchronized with the statue in order to absorb the other Tailed Beasts, but I wonder what exactly it means to be synchronized with the statue.Diamonddeath (talk) 20:01, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

He said he needed to steal a substitute it was never specified, so its to Earlie to say that he meant someone that can synchronize with the statue, --Rigoberto60 (talk) 03:38, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

I told you that it was never summoned to sync. Maadara clearly said substitute, Which was not specific. --Rigoberto60 (talk) 02:54, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Statue's anatomy
"When summoned it bursts from the ground, with only its upper torso and arms visible." When Madara summoned this beauty, it showed off a nice pair of legs. (as it's written further in the page when it's ankles are referred) I don't know much of statue's anatomy but I think that's a pair of legs, so you should consider removing the last part of this sentence. (And I think you can guess why the thing started to wear a robe, nobody wants to see all its body parts)

PICTURE
thanks to whoever changed its picture the olod one was crumy
 * Please sign your posts.--Cerez365™☺ 04:06, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Blasts
Before this becomes a huge thing: do the shock wave and blast thing the statue used in 537 count as fire and lightning? The wave after it got punched certainly looked like fire, and the thing it shot from the spike protrusion do look like lightning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:07, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think we assume it can use elements. We should stick to calling them energy blasts.--Deva 27 00:12, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I ask because I already reverted one Lightning Release addition. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:32, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

We should add some pictures of the statue during the fight--Endomarru (talk) 01:22, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Article too small.--Cerez365™☺ 01:32, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

what the statue is made of
especially on the pic of it behind madara in chapter 520, the statue in color and texture appears to be made of wood, should that be mentioned or is it possibly too much of a speculation at this point? To me at least, it seems clear, but I know I'm not a consensus... or even a majority 98.71.103.120 (talk) 05:57, May 25, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * We'd be assuming since we have no clue.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:19, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

I think now it's even more apperent it's made of wood. --Elveonora (talk) 02:27, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Still an assumption. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:48, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it looks like wood ... don't think it's needed to wait for a confirmation from Kishi to tell you that wood is wood. It has: -Wood like colour -Wood like texture/skin -Broken branch like protrusions --Elveonora (talk) 03:09, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Or it could be brown marble. Or rocks. Or bronze. Or chocolate. No one ever said it was wood. Besides, lighting really influences these things. We've seen the statue since the beginning of part 2, and I don't recall people saying it was made of wood before. Pointless discussion is pointless. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:42, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we should go with chocolate. That sounds legit.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:02, March 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Har Har Har. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 11:56, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Still no wood? It has a wooden texture and branches ...--Elveonora (talk) 23:56, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

rinnegan
as far as i can tell the only reason anybody thinks gedo mazo can only be used by rinnegan users is because nagato used it so where does it say that and what does it say exactly.
 * If Madara could use it without having the Rinnegan, it would seem likely that he would. Since he only did it after acquiring the Rinnegan, for now, we take it as meaning the Rinnegan is required to summon it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:33, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Alive or Statue
Is this statue alive or just a statue? I'm very curious about it. --Ilnarutoanime 11:58, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Tool Classification
Since the statue is well...a statue shouldn't it be considered a ninja tool instead? Darksusanoo (talk) 01:11, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * It does seem more logical to treat the statue as tool in the infobox...it's kinda of redundant to have the Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path and also hase Summoning Technique (Demonic Statue of the Outer path). It like saying it's two jutsus for the same thing. And since it's a statue maybe it should be classified as a tool. Opinions please? 2.80.103.63 (talk) 15:39, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then by your logic it's redundant to have articles for summoned entities like Katsuyu and Gamabunta since they're the same as the statue. One's a page for the technique and the other's for the the character...--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:03, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow ok this discussion i didn't took the turn i want...my point was that the statue has properties that fit better for a tool classification that that of an actual living summon creature (like you said Cerez Katsuyu and Gamabunta). My idea was to classify the Statue as tool instead of a living being, especially because it didn't ever showed any kind of personality or independant action. It's only shown working like a robot and it's a statue for both Madara and Nagato. What i think our other fellow wanted to state was that the Statue already has it's signature summon technique, and for it to show again in the basic summoning technique is kinda of repeating the point. Instead of the character being on the part of the basic summoning tech in the infobox list it in the tool section. If i recall correctly for example Kabuto has the basic summon tech(for snakes) and the Edo Tensei, yet on the list of creatures for the basic summon tech it does not list the edo tensei zombies. Did you get my point? Thougths please. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:17, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * But, the statue is alive though. Apart from the fact that we don't know much of anything about it since not all summoned entities are the same it has shown signs of life ever since it was first summoned so I'd be against listing it as a simple tool.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:22, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then by that that logic Hashirama's clone couldn't be a tool either since for all intents and purposes it's also a living creature. The fact is that neither creatures have shown any form of sentience...their like puppets in a way...they can't do anything without a user unlike any other summon species like the toads, slugs and even the snakes. the point tha tell's them apart is the fact that unlike the other species the statue has not shown any form of sentience other than the fact that it blindly follows it's summoner's orders and it's fit for combat and sealing. Other than that it has no other properties than that of a giant statue. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:33, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Shadow clones are created not summoned so I don't understand what they have to do with any of this...--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:39, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I never mentioned shadow clones...i mentioned Hashirama's living clone that Madara created and is listed as tool in his infobox. It's also a living being but it's listed as tool. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:20, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh dear, why'd I see "Hiruzen's" :s Though that's "living" it doesn't have a consciousness as Madara stated. When we've seen the statue it acts as any other summoned creature and does its summoners bidding.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:40, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * hahaha happens to the best of us ;) The difference is from other summon creatures, is that outside of combat or sealing functions the statue does nothing: it does nothing other than being a statue..unlike any other summon like toads or slugs...like i said before the statue may be alive but it's not sentient...it's like a puppet minus the strings, it not made of flesh, nor is it seen doing anything outside the summoner's orders...it's a mindless tool. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:49, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Shinobi are tools, too. Should we list them as tools just because they follow orders? Seelentau 愛議 19:37, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nice you're comparing sentient beings capable of coherent speech and feeling pain and emotions and perform multiple activities outside their orders to a giant statue who's never been seen forming an actual sentence or performing any form of independant action other than the commands of their respecitive summoners. Darksusanoo (talk) 19:50, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it stopped Kitsuchi from crashing it. That means it has a will to life. Or can you prove that Madara made the statue doing that? Also, can you prove that Nagato wanted the statue to use the dragon? We never saw him using any Jutsu besides the summoning of the statue. Everything else was done by the statue itself. Seelentau 愛議 19:59, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * First off if you wanna talk that the statue has defensive instinct why didn't it made any atempt to dogde or block any of Chouji's blows? The thing took then head on. And it only went on a rampage by Madara's order. And in Nagato's case he was directly connected to the statue and as soon as Hanzo's men were all dead and Hanzo gone the statue was gone. If Nagato wanted he could have given any other order to it. I'm not saying the thing is not alive, i'm saying that it does not appear to possess any form of sentience and outside of it's functions it does not appear to possess an actual mind. it's not like Gamabunta or Katsuyu. It may be animated but it's still a statue. Darksusanoo (talk) 20:25, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand your point. Also, I don't really care what the statue is labeled as. I just wanted to say that it's wrong to classify the statue as a tool just because it follows some orders ;) Seelentau 愛議 20:42, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course i understand that. If it were by that all shinobi were only tools ;) I'm just trying to put out the fact that the thing is a statue and that it does not do anything outside it's given orders. They "say seal"...and it seals, They "say fight" and it fight's. Nothing that suggests intelligent thought. But oww well i'll stop beating the point and wait for more opinions if anyone is interested Darksusanoo (talk) 22:04, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a rather interesting topic that was brought up. I think that for now, it should be kept as a character. It is alive, and despite the apparent limited intelligence, it has some independence of action, unlike the Hashirama clone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:13, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Why...
why madara isn't pierced with chakra rods in the back, when he summoned the statue? --thedasilva1 (talk) 01:10, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Nagato did that for a different reason.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:32, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because Madara just summoned it and Nagato used Kuchiyose: Gedō Mazō. Seelentau 愛議 12:00, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Madara Summoned the statue like Nagato did, there was no difference --thedasilva1 (talk) 1:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Madara didn't have to power the statue to use the soul-ripping technique. While it did use other techniques, it probably use the chakra of the tailed beasts sealed in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:24, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Rings?
Anyone notice how when Gedo Mazo was summoned to seal the tailed beast, it had Rings on? But when summoned to the battle field, it has no rings at that point. Also, im new to wikia editing. xDSkarrj (talk) 05:54, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't remember seeing the statue wearing any rings at all. You need to provide a source so others can see what you're talking about.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:27, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Summoning
Should it be mentioned in trivia that when Nagato summoned him, he came out of the ground instead of a puff of smoke? Joshbl56 01:29, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

picture
What about a picture showing the Statue without blindfold? To show it's 9 eyes. --Elveonora (talk) 04:52, December 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its image in the infobox is without the blindfold. It's a bit far from the face, but in full size you can clearly see the eyes, and even tell which ones are closed and see most of the pupils in the opened ones. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:01, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I mean image from anime ... for example Shukaku sealing. --Elveonora (talk) 05:16, December 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't recall there being good angles on those. Most of the shots from sealings show the statue with the dragons coming out and going at the host. In an image showing the sealing, I think that would be the most important thing about it. Its eyes are not that import to warrant a close from it, like a dōjutsu would be. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:23, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, since the manga version does not have the ring kanji on the fingertips, it is less descriptive than the anime one. Now, if we can enhance the size and resolution of the anime, then it'd be better, right? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 05:36, December 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * In chapter 255, it shows the statue with the ring kanji. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:35, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Dragon technique
Why isn't the statue's dragon-ish soul removal listed as a jutsu like the other techniques it's been seen doing? Darksusanoo (talk) 23:05, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

It's listed as one of Nagato's Jutsu, Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals--TricksterKing (talk) 23:23, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * And? The Outer Path chakra chains are listed as one of Tobi's jutsus but are also listed as one of the Statue's techniques. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:27, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the thing Nagato did when he first summoned the statue is listed under Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path, which is what was used. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:33, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Outer Path
I'm not exactly sure how to phrase my question, but whatever. :) Okay, so I guess I understand what the Outer Path is, or rather understand as much as it can be with the current lack of exposition. Are we treating Gedō Mazō as a part of the Outer Path ability? It kind of seems like the statue can use at least part of the Outer Path ability, seeing as it can use the path's Chakra Chains, so shouldn't it be listed as a user of that as well? Skitts (talk) 22:21, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Bump. Skitts (talk) 04:18, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd always assumed that it had something to do with the Outer Path as the name for it is the demonic Statue of the Outer Path but I don't know about clumping it together with the actual Outer Path. Chakra Chains is listed as a jutsu it can use as well. Joshbl56  04:33, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe both Nagato and the Statue are Outer Path ... life-death "_" after all, he was able to use it after it has pierced his back.--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

@Joshbl56 Tobi mentioned that the Chakra Chains he used was an ability provided by using the Outer Path, which would mean the Statue uses it as well, no? Skitts (talk) 14:34, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Well, over at the German Narutopedia, I solved this question the following way: As we all know, the Rinnegan grants the user six paths as well as the seventh path, the Gedō. The 7th path allows the user to do two things. The first is to revive people by using the Rinne Tensei Jutsu. The second is to control corpses by using the Gedō no Jutsu (mentioned by Naruto) and the Chakra transmitters. But I see, that's not the question here^^ I really don't have a clue how the Gedō Mazō fits in here. It isn't used for either of the Gedō's abilities, that much is obvious. I don't think that the Chakra chains used by Tobi are the same Gedō Mazō's using. When the Yonbi was shown, we could see two types of chains, right? I think the one going through the Yonbi's chest is the one used by Gedō Mazō while the ones on Yonbi's arms are the ones Tobi is using to control the Jinchūriki through the ability Gedō's granting him (Tobi). Seelentau 愛議 17:30, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

@Skitts, I meant that Chakra Chains is already one of it's jutsus. Also, when people say Outer Path, I think of Nagato and the King of Hell but I think Elveonora is probably the closest one here as far as the life and death situation as well. The Outer Path's description says that it revives people, which is the life and the Statue takes life away through his Ghost Dragon things, which is death.oshbl56| Joshbl56 ]] 17:58, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Hm. Unless I've missed something, we may need to revise the Outer Path article. As I understand it (and what Seelentau appears to have said), each of 7 Paths is an ability/technique that allows the user access to a subset of related techniques. For example, the Deva Path is an ability that allows the user access to techniques that manipulate forces in general. 2 of them control Gravity (Banshō Tenin and Chibaku Tensei) while the other (Shinra Tensei) manipulates a "repulsive force" (as per ShounenSuki's translation). However, the Outer Path article says that the Outer Path ability allows one to revive the dead, but that would be the technique it allows access to, the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique, not the Outer Path itself, since that ability allows other things besides that. Perhaps I've misunderstood/mixed things up, but I think that is correct. Skitts (talk) 18:37, May 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the whole topic is somewhat mixed up on this wiki. The Outer Path is a technique that allows the user to control life (Rinne Tensei) and death (Outer Path no Jutsu). At least that's what I understand it to be. Seelentau 愛議 18:46, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

That's correct.--Elveonora (talk) 18:53, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I thought so. I'm going to go make a new topic on the Outer Path talk page. Skitts (talk) 18:59, May 30, 2012 (UTC)

Body Of The Ten Tailed Beast
The latest chapter revealed that the statue is the body of the Ten Tailed Beast excavated from the moon and returned to Earth. 207.216.193.21 (talk) 13:12, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I expected this to happen either way. The translation said it is the vessel of the Ten-Tails. Not its body. It'd be the same thing as a jinchūriki possibly.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:15, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

I knew that since day one, it makes sense.--Elveonora (talk) 13:31, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well... both the translations I read said "body", but that could just be one interpretation. 207.216.193.21 (talk) 19:50, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

It's obviously a body, not a vessel ...--Elveonora (talk) 22:01, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

The statue has "sawn-off" looking spikes on it's back, the Ten Tails has spikes on it's back. The statue doesn't have tails because it's chakra was split into the 9 beasts so that could be why it doesn't have tails at this point. Although the statue has more then the "One eye" the Ten Tails is said to have, has any of the beasts said anything about it only having the one eye? Or are we just going on what everyone's heard in the legends? There could always be the possibility that it has more then the one eye? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 02:18, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Why is everyone forgetting that the beast's body was sealed within the moon? I really doubt Madara or anyone had time to journey to the moon and break it out without the entire structure breaking down or no one noticing. Naturally you're going to find similarities between the two but it was called a vessel, so until we know better, it's simply a vessel, not the things body. We have to work off what we know.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:56, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't Nagato summon it?--Elveonora (talk) 15:28, July 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and it came from the ground. But when was it ever said the Sage placed a contract on the beast's body or better yet why would he do that? I think there's a missing piece to the story we don't know just yet. For now we can't represent it as anything else but a vessel.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:20, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sage even planned it's revival, or more like has foreseen. The thing that it came from the ground instead of puff of smoke is a curiosity in itself. Also who said that a Sage placed a contract seal on it? I think it's more like that wielders of Rinnegan can do that--Elveonora (talk) 17:53, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Differences when Nagato and Tobi summoned it?
Should it be added to Trivia or somewhere else that when Nagato summoned it, the statue pierced him in the back but it didn't when Tobi summoned it?

sign your posts, because Tobi didn't summon it for the purpose of "soul sucking dragons no jutsu" thingy--Elveonora (talk) 23:53, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

merger...
I think it's time to merge this with "Ten-Tails" since it's one and the same thing, just lacking it's original chakra/power.--Elveonora (talk) 15:52, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with this. Leodix   (議論 16:46, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup.~ 18:01, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * On the same note, is it safe to merge the article on Nagato summoning it as well?--BeyondRed (talk) 18:20, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think a merger is necessary. The Demonic Statue is well, a statue, the lifeless husk. The Ten-Tails is the living, breaking primordial demon. Major difference between the two in terms of article.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:27, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * edit conflictAlong with the fact that the statue has a name, and named techniques, I think they can stay separate with the relevant notations made.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:34, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

We didn't merge the nine Tailed Beasts when they were to revealed to originally be the same being, no point in these mergers as well. A more appropriate discussion regarding this, in my opinion, is what to consider the entity to be after it has finished merging the chakra of seven tailed beasts. Do we refer to it and list it as an incomplete Ten-Tails, or do we keep listing it as the statue? I think that it should be listed and considered an incomplete Ten-Tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:41, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

But it's still the same entity, just without it's tails and eye, simply weaker. That's like saying Kakashi wouldn't be a copy-ninja anymore if he had lost the Sharingan to blindness currently. Also the appearance section should be updated "now" that we know how it looks recently, that's why a merger would be better than to refer to a single character in two articles--Elveonora (talk) 23:44, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, why did we merge Tobi and Obito pages? Even if they're the same person they use different names and are entirely different personality wise. * sarcastic* But really, this is the Ten-Tails no matter how you stretch it. The Juubi was never even stated to have died. And it was sealed, only more proof it was still dangerous and still it's old self- despite having it's chakra severely drained. I suggest we merge the pages, list the name Demonic Statue of the Outer Path in the alias section and change it's class to 'Summon, Tailed Beast', split the appearance section, give it 2 pictures through the tabs like the Obito/Tobi page got. And add the abilities sections into one or keep them separated. Also keep in mind Kurama had it's chakra removed by naruto and still had a small amount left, likely the case with the statue as there was still enough left to indefinately prolong Madara's life, empower Spiral Zetsu, and create hundreds of Zetsu Clones. And we already know that Tailed Beasts with chakra missing, coughKinkaku&Ginkakucough, will try and drain the chakra back. At the very least you gotta make them have a family section saying they're related and change the classifications. Skarrj (talk) 09:05, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * That makes no sense. Tobi despite his behaviour, is still Tobi- one single person. All of that merging and splitting up of information in the article is entirely unnecessary to me in this case. One's a statue the other the Ten-Tails. The manner in which you even want to present the information is confusing from just reading it. As for your concerns Omni, I always thought that once it was done the merging and such all other info would just go on the Ten-Tails' article with appropriate redirects and such.Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:43, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez, the Ten-Tails is the statue... it might have ceased being a "TEN-TAILS" but that wasn't it's name to begin with, more like a nickname. If I had a dog Bob and used to call him "4 paws" from time to time, even if he had lost one limb, I wouldn't have referred to him as "3 paws" from that point on.--Elveonora (talk) 01:20, October 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Look people, mainly Cerez and Omnibender, the statue has been confirmed to be the body of the beast. Madara gave it the name "Gedo Mazo", but in the same chapter in which he states that he named it, he also calls it the body of the Ten-Tails. Now, the statue is a living creature. It can move, roar, fight on its own. I'd go as far to say its literally the Ten-Tails without all of its chakra. It makes no sense whatsoever to keep the articles separate. Cerez says the statue has named attacks. Yeah? And? Now they're the Ten-Tails' named attacks, because we know now what the statue is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 03:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

I guessed that the Statue was the body of the Ten-Tails a long while back on my talk page but I still think the Statue should be viewed as a constituent part like the other tailed beasts. I do think it's well past time to merge the Nagato summons though. Arrancar79 (talk) 03:50, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't understand. I have yet to see one good reason why the two articles should be merged. That's like if we find out that Naruto and Sasuke were originally one being, then we should automatically just hump all the information in one article. Thee two separate articles have merit on their own and with proper redirection: "this article is about the empty vessel of the Ten-Tails, see...", "this article is about the ten-tails itself, see..." One is about the entire being, the other about what its empty vessel has been up to while it was sealed away. You guys are making it out to look like people are running around headless wondering why the two have yet to be merged, when it looks like merging these two articles would bring more confusion than it's worth.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:26, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

I just see it pointless to state some of the information in both articles twice, also what in a case it gets revived? If we ever get to know So6p name, will we have 2 articles, one that refers to him as a person the other as a legend? Makes no sense... now, what about we make an article for Pervy Sage, since it appears to be an alter-ego of Jiraiya--Elveonora (talk) 23:12, October 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Ten-Tails has been revived"
 * "Demonic Statue no longer exists since it has grown back it's tails and got an eye"
 * "Reality check: it's the same thing"


 * The Mazo may be the "main" part of the Ten-Tails but it's still just a part in the same way as any of the tailed beasts IMO, it's part in the story is as unique as any of them. If the TT say produces the dragons from it's mouth then I could see maybe merging them then but the Mazo could function in such a very different manner as to clearly be nothing like TT. I don't see this being like a Cell-Perfect Cell situation, if that analogy helps. Arrancar79 (talk) 01:19, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Anyone have a disagreement with merging this with the Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path article? Arrancar79 (talk) 01:23, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path is a technique. It won't be merged with a character/item page.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 01:38, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

That's a difference... Tailed Beasts (Kurama > Shukaku) are their own entities, while Ten-Tails and Demonic Statue are one and the same, thus your analogy is out of place.--Elveonora (talk) 02:48, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

They're as the same thing as are the Sharingan and the Rinnegan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:58, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

How can you compare pairs of eyes with a living entity/character?--Elveonora (talk) 03:13, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ten-Tails and Rinnegan are "complete". The power of the Rinnegan was split into two bloodlines, much like the Ten-Tails had its chakra split from its body. The Sharingan, a part of the Rinnegan can be made into the Rinnegan again by adding Senju genes/cells/power/whatever, which originally was together with the eyes, as the Rinnegan in the sage. The Demonic Statue, a part of the Ten-Tails, can be made into the Ten-Tails by adding its formerly split chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:24, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * @ TheUltimate3 Why is it a technique? I didn't see a databook reference so it seems that it was just created that way. The Mazo seems like it should be treated as any other character summons would like Kurama. Arrancar79 (talk) 03:31, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

It was created as a technique because it's introduction in the series was as a technique. There are other techniques which follow the "Summoning: X" format. If it was merely a Summoning Technique, only "Summoning Technique" would have been used, much like with 99% of the summoned creatures in the series. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:33, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

While Sharingan/Rinnegan were separated/have evolved/devolved/whatever from each other, they are basically 2 different eye techniques, while "Ten-Tails" never has died or ceased to be in any way. Loss of power =/= loss of identity, and even if so, that doesn't make Gedo Statue and Jubi 2 separate entities. It's very pointless, unless we refer to Gedo Statue as a "tool" and to Jubi as a character, except tools aren't alive--Elveonora (talk) 03:41, October 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, thanks Omni I understand the idea behind that decision now but is it still the most appropriate format in this instance? I'm seeing it as just like Kurama. Arrancar79 (talk) 03:42, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Merger- Decision Time
Chapter 609 pretty much confirms what everyone's been saying. The Statue is the Ten-Tails. Its gained its tails back and become more complete, but the Statue wasn't destroyed, nor did anything else happen to bring the Ten-Tails back. It literally is just a more completed form of the statue. For that reason, I believe we can now warrant a merge between the two articles. Thoughts on this? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 06:05, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree-- JayCeeCee  06:14, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's not forget that 10-tails and the Gedo statue were separated during all the major plot points in the story. The body and the 9 portions of chakra all became their own individual characters, so merging the articles together seems a little hasty--Malcasablanca (talk) 06:36, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Having them separated is ridiculous.--Elveonora (talk) 06:48, November 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Take it this way, the Statue is the Body, while the Chakra is the soul. Madara is trying to put the soul back into its body. So We Humans, don't have a seperate ID Proof for our Soul and Body do we ?-- JayCeeCee  07:07, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Still going with no. You guys don't seem to understand that no one is disputing whether or not the Ten-Tails and the Demonic Statue are one entity. What you're not getting is how others want to portray the information on this wiki. You seem to think that because they're a singular thing then then we have to merge the articles which is wrong. As far as I'm concerned the role of the statue has ended and all information from chapter 609 and onwards should be reflected in the Ten-Tails' article.--Cerez 365 ™(talk)09:05, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm rather conflicted on this. While I can see Cerez and Omni's point, I just can't get beyond the point that the statue isn't so much a statue as it is a giant corpse. It's not like we consider The Paths of Pain as being separate people from their living selves even when under the effect of Nagato's Techniques. I get it's not about whether or not they are the same entity, but how we choose to present it, but it's also not the case that we make articles for people whose corpses significance continues beyond that of their life. Anyway, over all, I think I'll go with Cerez and Omni on this one and say no. If nothing else it means that the Statue article doesn't open with a massive spoiler saying "Ten Tails" if some new fans are trying to find info on it. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 09:59, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

i am going with cerez with this, it is the all the tailed beasts together that makes the ten tails.. not the gedo mazo it should stay seperated. the gedo mazo as how its role seems is just a vessel to carry the chakra--Manga-anime90001 (talk) 10:42, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

my bad ^the gedo mazo only serves now as vessel for juubi--Manga-anime90001 (talk) 11:03, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

My vote's on merge. Body without chakra is still itself. It makes no sense to keep the articles separate. Also, in case they'll still be kept separate, why isn't it classified as a tailed beast? Even though it has no tails, its still the original tailed beast. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 15:19, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * We've already went over this, and we knew the outcome of the revival and it didn't change the reasoning of the Statue and the Ten-Tails. Hell Cerez is right, the role of the statue has ended, and now information of the Ten-Tails, in it's own article begins.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:33, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Why did we merge Tobi and Obito? Because they are singular. Nuf said. Skarrj (talk) 15:43, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Because Obito putting on a mask is still a guy in a mask. A corpse becoming a giant statue is not. If you want to make a good argument try and think about it fully.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:51, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well it could be argued that the statue is still the 10 tails just without it's chakra. Because it still kept it's body, personality, ect. But upon further thinking, it's basically the same as a Human Puppet. Just corpses. Though it could be argued that the 10 tails was never killed and was only drained of chakra, so it isnt really a corpse. Skarrj (talk) 16:25, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

@ultimate, Obito with or without a mask is still Obito, just like the statue without it's tails is still "ten-tails" Also the tailed beasts aren't it's soul, they are it's chakra, the ten-tails never died thus Gedo isn't it's corpse. Imagine being very dehydrated; water is for your body what the tailed beasts are for Gedo. It's simply the same entity just weakened--Elveonora (talk) 21:25, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

The articles should stay split. As mentioned already, the Statue was its own being for a long while. I don't recall anyone suggesting to merge the tailed beast articles into the Ten-Tails. They were their own characters. So what if Madara gave the statue its name, the Sage of the Six Paths did the same thing to the tailed beasts. Even as a summon, the statue is its own thing, and no, since just the statue isn't the Ten-Tails, it'll not be categorised as a Tailed Beast MangekyoSasuke. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:41, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Where do you have proof that Gedo had any different mindset/personality/soul than from before it got it's tails cut and eye ripped? (chakra split) It never ceased to exist, it has changed only physically. A larva and a butterfly aren't 2 separate entities, are they?--Elveonora (talk) 21:56, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

By "its own being", I mean that it did stuff after having its chakra split. Madara used it to grow the Hashirama clone, Nagato summoned it against Hanzō, Obito summoned it against Darui's division. If anything, the fact it could be controlled as a statue is a difference from the Ten-Tails as a whole. If the Sage could merely control it, why seal it? Given one has the prerequisites, the statue will do the bidding of the summoner. Sage couldn't control the Ten-Tails, he had to seal it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:20, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Because in it's "complete" form it was too strong to control with Outer Path alone?--Elveonora (talk) 23:34, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

You asked for a difference. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:08, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Actually a Larva and a Butterfly are different xD. The Larva when born has 2 sets of DNA in it's body. 1 set is dormant. When it forms the crysalis around it's body, it physically dies and the second set of DNA is used to create the butterfly from its corpse. But this argument is getting tiring. The Gedo Mazo and Juubi are technically the same. The argument is that it was used for a long period of time without it's chakra and thus is a different entity. Thinking back, didn't Mu split himself in half? Maybe we should make a whole new page for the split. Skarrj (talk) 16:15, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Mū was still the same being. He split into two identical entities that were no different from the original, aside then having half his power. The Ten-Tails didn't remain the same thing. It ceased to be the Ten-Tails. Not once in the manga they refer to the statue and the Ten-Tails interchangeably, they always mention the statue as a vessel of the Ten-Tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:29, November 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I had never heard that the sage seals the Jubi due to not control its power but because he is dying and the beast will reborn after his death. MaskedManMadara (talk) 17:36, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

Jubi and Gedo Mazo, have body and power in a different level, when Nagato summoned it to revenge his friend's death, I think he want its total power and not just a part, and it don't have the power of Biju so how could you say to be only one?


 * Ten-Tails: fusion of the power of all the Biju into a single body, one eye, and tails.
 * Gedo Mazo: nine eyes (I don't know if its nine or ten), no tails, and it don't have (initially) the power of all Biju.

Sorry, but there is something I want to ask, anyone here explain to me please, how is the personality of the Statue that was always under control of someone else? MaskedManMadara (talk) 17:39, November 15, 2012 (UTC)

you know whats funny all you say is the body! the body!! look. the juubi was sealed into the sage's body it can go from body to body, if the gedo mazo was its body why did it went to another???! that clearly shows

the Juubi itself is not a body, its NOT BOUND TO THE GEDO MAZO. if it could enter another body, and it can! that right there should shut that theory up, i dont why this is still going and why its so hard to understand?! sigh--Manga-anime90001 (talk) 11:12, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

You guys are still focusing on the origins of the statue vs. the Ten-Tails which I don't think should be the issue here. The issue should be the best way to represent the information but if we want to go all technical, up until the last moments of its revival, the statue was referred to... as a statue.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:50, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

@manga-anime, the only thing that shows is, surely not anything intelligent on your part... the lack of logic irks me. Not sure if it's because of a lack of overall understanding of the plot, or it goes beyond the realm of Narutoverse. @cerez, I think it depends on the way one is looking at it. You are right, it's about representing the information in a best and easiest to understand way as much as it can be possible. But if it was solely on me, I'd like to have the articles merged and slit in the middle with: "existence as the Ten-Tails" and "existence as the Demonic Statue of Outer Path" Let me ask you a hypothetical question: (please don't take this as a forum post, but we will have to face this more than likely in the future) The chakra of "the ten-tails" being separated and "tailed beasts" created from it again, given life by Naruto or x character blah blah, but this time, "one-tails" is a dog called Bob and "two-tails" is a deer called Jessy. Would we merge raccoon Shukaku and dog Bob along with cat Matatabi and deer Jessy? Since they "will return with a different forms and names" I consider this to be kinda similar to what's to come... Gedo Mazo and Ten-Tails are the same entity, just with different forms.

Makes no sense to me, if we follow this logic of separation, why don't we have a separate article for each of Orochimaru's "incarnations" ???--Elveonora (talk) 00:47, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Lack of logic beyond narutoverse??? oh my gosh. you sound just like those people from forums. .this is not a forum, i am clearly showing you the facts that the juubi and the mazo have differences but nooo just because I disagree, you have to insult people. Like seriously, get over it, you cant always be right, whats this about animals??? the gedo mazo itself is not a chakra form of the juubi its a Statue not a chakra form clearly different from a fox chakra form of the kyuubi. So please don't insult people's knowledge because yours ain't that good either, showing poor proofs--Manga-anime90001 (talk) 11:07, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't a literal statue, statues are carved sculptures by people, art of handwork. Uchiha Madara nicknamed it like that because it's "remains" resembled one and it served a role of a sentient tool more than of a character.
 * 1) I don't deny that they have differences, the topic is if they are separate entities or not. It's "the ten-tails" not "a ten-tails" thus Gedo Mazo might have had a different physical appearance and mental level, but the "soul" stayed intact since it never died, thus the two subjects are one and the same entity.
 * 2) Gedo Mazo was what had left from Ten-Tails' body after So6p separated it's chakra into 9 pieces that were given lives and names, I don't know what are you on about with "fox chakra form of the kyubi" (your statements make little sense, that's not an insult)
 * 1) You obviously don't get the animal analogy.
 * 2) The first point is important, because if people agree with me on that, then keeping them separated would be an exception. I really find it weird, White&Black Zetsus and then Sakon&Ukon have a single article, despite them being each their own entity... while in this case there are two?--Elveonora (talk) 23:52, November 17, 2012 (UTC)

Let's just all agree to say that the Gedo Statue is the vessel. It simply harbors the chakra of the 9 tailed beasts, and in turn allows the Ten-Tails to come back. It is not the Ten-Tails. It just transforms into it/ Zelwolf (talk) 02:27, November 18, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf

How can you even think that when the manga clearly stated otherwise--Elveonora (talk) 02:42, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Zelwolf, I think you missed a point about where compromise comes into this. We can all agree the Statue is a Vessel used to house the chakra of the tailed beasts. It's the nature of it as either just the vessel or the Ten-Tails itself that's the issue. I personally do think of it as the Ten-Tails, but simply as a matter of how best to present the information, I'm all for having separate articles for the Ninja Tool Statue and Living Ten-Tails. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 03:10, November 19, 2012 (UTC)--Hawkeye2701 (talk) 03:10, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think the articles should stay seprate because essentially the statue was the corpse of the Ten-Tails. It was used by Obito, Madara, and Nagato but without being issued with a command it just seems to just stand around, the one case it did anything without being ordered to was when it responded in pain as it transformed into the Ten-Tails. I wouldn't be surprised since the Ten-Tails has been revived that it displays personality, given more reason to stay seperate. The last sentence was specualtion but there is still more evidence given that they should stay seperate--67.142.164.26 (talk) 08:47, November 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * sigh* I've sat back and watched this go on long enough.

1. The statue is in fact the body of the Ten Tails. - When the Sage separated the Ten Tails chakra into Nine entities, he sealed the body inside to moon. The manga has stated this fact more than once.

2. When Madara unlocked the Rinnegan, he unlocked the seal and brought the body back to Earth.

3. Now that the body has regained 7 out of 9 chakra components, it's essentially now become an Incomplete Ten Tails.

My thoughts on merging the two sections, are we should keep them separate. We're not all jumping at combining all pages of the beasts into one, are we? No. I say we leave it as is. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:49, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ok the new chapter pretty much shows they are two different entities. Demonic Statue of the Outer Path has emotions while as the Ten Tails it does not. They also have different chakra signatures, if you could even call what the Ten Tails has a chakra signature. Pretty clear this discussion is over. 71.237.133.173 (talk) 20:47, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Read it again...--Elveonora (talk) 20:54, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

They said that the statue's chakra vanished, and then the Ten-Tails appeared. Ten-Tails was also compared to an innate, natural force, even being sensable by Sage Mode, something that the statue was never mentioned nor shown to be a subject to. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:39, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

abilities
Weren't those dragons that killed Hanzo's men essentially Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals? They look identical and are used by the same entity. So why isn't it listed as a user? Another thing, since chakra receivers originate from its body and are related to the black orbs of Obito's which we call when shaped Ten-Tails Chakra Weapons isn't it user of the chakra receiver as well for creating them and piercing Nagato's back etc. ? Also I again wonder why don't we merge this article with Ten-Tails--Elveonora (talk) 17:17, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you've brought this up. There should definitely be a merger between the two article. they are the same thing, essentially. But as for the Dragons, i believe that Omnibender once said that they're two different technique's, one is a summoning tech, while the other is a sealing tech. (if i'm explaining that right) But on the other topic, i'm all for listing the relevance between the chakra receiver and the T.T. Chakra weapons. That would mean, we might have to list the receiver creation, as a jutsu instead. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 17:29, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, but as brought up here http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Summoning:_Demonic_Statue_of_the_Outer_Path#Restructuring it might not be anything more than "summoning technique (ten-tails)" granted to Rinnegan user, the same one Madara used to bring it to the earth from moon. The black rods, dragons and shit are likely to be unrelated to it--Elveonora (talk) 17:34, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * With that, i'd have to say that i agree. I was confused on the point i was trying to make lol. But, We should definitely merge the two dragon techniques. We just have to list it in a variation section. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 17:39, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) We're not going to have another discussion on merging the statue with the Ten-Tails so don't even try.
 * 2) Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path's dragon things ripped out people's souls. Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals seals things. Different techniques are different.
 * 3) Chakra Receiver's origins are screwy. They could be from the Ten-Tails, they could also be from the Rinnegan. We don't know.
 * 4) Anything else I'm misssing?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:44, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Such an attitude is rude. An elitist's mentality "I said so, my word and it alone is final" ... no good reason has been presented as of why the merger shouldn't be done, they ARE one and the same.
 * That's a valid point. The former rips souls, the latter seals chakra, although the topic stays, isn't the statue a user of Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals? Its body was used to perform the rituals. Also shouldn't we then have a separate technique for the version used on Danzo's men? We currently do under the name Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path but I'm again pointing out the article may be false in what it describes/attributes what to what.
 * More like "don't we know" currently it's been agreed on them to had come from the ten-tails, we just leave it at that until further information arrives, if any.
 * Yes, don't forget your ego when leaving--Elveonora (talk) 18:01, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I believe we did at one time have a seperate article for that one. Believe it was called Demonic Statue Soul Removal or something. In the end the page was like a sentence which was then just covered in the main "Summoning: Demonic Statue" article at no loss.
 * 2) It may have been from the Ten-Tails, it may not. The issue is that Pain could create chakra receivers himself, when the Demonic Statue, which at this time was as close to the Ten-Tails as a stone, was sitting in a cave. I don't think people took into consideration that bit, but mostly stuck on Madara's words and what Tobi did. Hell if anything I would hazzard a guess that the chakra receivers were more Outer Path based, considering everything we've ever seen of them was by someone with a Rinnegan. But that is a discussion for another place.
 * 3) Yes, i'm aware it was quite rude. Could have sounded less so, but I personally hate it when people try and start the same argument a few months down the line trying to get a new outcome. Nothing new can be added to the argument, such a tactic is mainly done trying to hope people forget or change their minds.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:10, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

You are right, I apologize as well. And people change their minds, or some at least do. It's not about hoping the same people will suddenly agree with me (which also is possible) but new editors have since come and they may have something to say on the matter.--Elveonora (talk) 18:21, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * What's the old saying? "Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity?" Sometimes rudeness is what it takes to get that tid bit across. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:22, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * More like stubbornness or refusal to give up. There are no new tactics or tricks to try in order to achieve my goal because I'm not trying anything besides discussing and promoting my opinion. But I might be insane as well, that would explain the lack of results 0_0--Elveonora (talk) 18:27, August 22, 2013 (UTC)