Talk:Amaterasu: Flame Wrapping Fire

Needed?
Do we really need this? Plus, it was never called a Blaze Release, only Kagutsuchi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:07, November 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * At most it should have an article, but calling it Blaze Release is stretching, because as far as we know, it's not.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:41, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

At the very least, we should call it a Fire Release due to Amaterasu being involved. Master Shannara November 29, 2009
 * I agree, as Amaterasu is involved, but the shape of Amatersu is suspicious to me, as normal flames wouldn't usually connect from one rib of Susanoo to the other. --GoDai (talk) 04:43, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Name
In the last episode, karin said, It's something, like "kuroi hi no tate" - shield of the black flames Rudis (talk) 13:41, March 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't oppose using it as the name, but I do think it's more of a description than it is an actual name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Blaze or Fire Release?
Is this a Blaze Release? I think it is, due to the manipulation of black fire itself is "Blaze Release", not just Kagutsuchi. The simple Amaterasu, which does not include shape manipulation, is "fire", and the highest level of Fire Release, but manipulating the black fire (Kagutsuchi, Amaterasu Shield) should be "Blaze". Yatanogarasu 22:57, March 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with this reasoning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:37, March 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Going from the Blaze Release article this sounds about right.--Cerez☺ (talk) 01:38, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

The name again
So, the name was mentioned in said episode, sí? Seelentau 愛議 22:06, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't remember it actually having been given a name, but I do remember Karin saying something like him creating a shield of black flames to halt A's attack. Skitts (talk) 22:17, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Karin gave it a description-like name. I confirmed it with ShounenSuki, the topic should be somewhere it the last couple of my talk page archives. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

What is the shield?
Considering what Karin described, which is just the "shield of black flames", that means that the shield is only the black flames. This would mean that Susanoo is not quite a parent technique to this. Similarly, we don't consider Susanoo a parent technique to Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi. Does anyone oppose removing Susanoo as the parent technique to this? I would consider this to be a parent technique to BR:K (or maybe related) more than I consider Susanoo to be a parent to this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:34, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I dunno if he can use "shield of black flames" without Susanoo ; ) --Elveonora (talk) 22:46, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

i think the shield was the susanoo ribcage coated with the amateratsu flames the shield part was the susanoo --Nitram86 (talk) 23:01, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there's no Shield of Black Flames either without Susanoo or Amaterasu. It's basically 2 techniques used together I think it can stay as a parent technique or related/delivered or something --Elveonora (talk) 23:04, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

My reason to question this is because Karin called it "of black flames", which can be understood as only the flames being part of the shield, like a two-fold defence. Think Ōnoki and Gaara's sand shield and rock golem, or Dodai and the Fourth Division's rock and rubber wall. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:20, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

My thought is that the black flames are a shield on their own, Susanoo is just something for Sasuke to attach them to, since he probably wouldn't coat himself in Amaterasu, which makes Susanoo a backup defence like Gaara's sand armour. TricksterKing (talk) 00:59, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Game Name's Kanji and Literal English
Can someone that has the Japanese version of Naruto Shippūden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 look up the combo list for EMS Sasuke? Look for his tilt, which is Amaterasu: Flame Gathering, and post the kanji for it. I unfortunately don't have the Japanese version, so I can't help.

Question is, when we find that out, will the literal English translation of that kanji become the new article name, like with Asura Attack? Or will we stick to the unofficial anime name? Either way, it still becomes "named," right? General Awesomo 14:21, April 19, 2013 (UTC)

If we manage finding kanji for it, certainly. It's what we did for Akatsuchi's golem technique. The problem is that, other than ninjutsu and ultimate ninjutsu, it's incredibly hard to find the kanji for combos. Of the Ultimate Ninja Storm series, I only ever managed finding complete movesets for UN1. UN2 and UNSG, I have found only ninjutsu and ultimates, and sometimes awakened ninjutsu. UNS3 has just been released in Japan, so we should get ninjutsu and ultimates for them soon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:16, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Isn't it as simple as just opening up the combo list? There should be kanji for combo strings, tilts, grabs, ninjutsu, ougis, awakened combo strings, awakened tilts, awakened unblockable attacks (replace grabs), and awakened ninjutsu. Or not, perhaps they just kept those in English. General Awesomo 17:05, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

It is, but the English version of the game only has the option of turning on Japanese audio, they can't change the subs to Japanese text. Only Japanese games can open up the combo list for kanji, and as someone who has looked up extensively for those, I can say that it's very hard for those to come by for later games of the series. The most recent one I found that had pretty much every combo was the first Ultimate Ninja Storm game. Only one I every managed finding for UNS2 only had moves for one or two character, and most were repeated movesets from other games. There is one site I'm looking that kinda looks like will add them but I'm not hopeful. I still have to see if I can find movesets for Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3, which so far I was only able to find in the form of youtube videos instead of actual text, and then I have to translate the ones I found for UNS. And then there's also the case of the translation being accurate, because kanji can have different rōmaji, ultimately making it a bit of guess work, unless you can get them elsewhere. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:15, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Any luck, anyone? General Awesomo 06:08, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, yes, I did find the kanji. Only reason I have yet to put it forward is because I'm waiting for the site to release the moveset for all characters, that way I can ask our go-to translator to proof translate my translations all at once instead of bugging him every time the site releases new information. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:39, May 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's great. Are there any other unnamed jutsus out there that would gain a name from Storm 3? Nothing else really comes to mind. General Awesomo 02:41, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Counting individual combos as techniques on their own, like this one, that means for every new character, there's about 8 to 10 new techniques. 12 to 14 if the character's moveset changes during an awakening. By new character, I mean both characters that debuted as playable in this came (jinchūriki, select Edo Tensei shinobi, War Tobi, Mifune, for example) and new variations of old characters (TBB Naruto, EMS Sasuke). Some old characters may also have new techniques if they have Awakening Actions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:03, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I meant unnamed jutsus like this one and how Asura Attack used to be unnamed until Storm 3. I actually looked some up. There's Soul Removal, Wind Waves, and Wind Release Stream. Though the last two debuted in Generations, but I guess it's like you said, it was tough or impossible to get. So, we'll be having a bunch of renaming to do, right? General Awesomo 04:02, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Soul Removal got a name. Wind Release Slash and Stream might have. From UNSG to UNS3, all previous characters lost a combo, so if either of those is a technique that Danzō had in UNSG that was lost in UNS3, kanji for it won't be in the site, but Danzō's moveset has yet to be published. Most of the techniques released in that site so far were actually for techniques which debuted in UNS2 and UNSG, since they've been pretty much unchanged through the games. There are some characters that we'd need to look with a bit more of care though. While we use the English name of the games, their Japanese title show that sometimes they come from different series. Some of the techniques I was able to find for UNS2/G/3 may have actually debuted in those. Pain, Konan, Hidan, Kakuzu, Suigetsu, Karin and Jūgo for example. They were not in Ultimate Ninja 4 and 5, but made their playable debut in Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3. I'm looking for stuff on Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3, but all I managed to find were YouTube videos, and those are much harder to get kanji out of than simply finding a list and doing the translation. Danzō in particular debuted in Ultimate Ninja Impact, but that is easier to check out because I have a couple sites with movesets from that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:46, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, Soul Removal is listed as unnamed in it's article. I can't recall it ever being named in the manga or anime. And judging from it not having a rank, it probably didn't have a databook entry, right? Danzō kept both Wind Release Slash and Stream in his combos, wherever the true Slash may be, as he tends to use it a lot in his moveset. The only combo he lost was the one ending with Wind Release: Vacuum Blade, which is still used in his awakening combo. General Awesomo 07:15, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

So now Amaterasu: Flame Wrapping Fire becomes this technique's name? General Awesomo 21:59, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Enton Kagutsuchi
This is a variaation of Enton: Kagutsuchi i think. Kagutsuchi is a jutsu which allows to manipulate Amaterasu flames at will in different forms. --Salamancc (talk) 21:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's why Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi is listed as this technique's parent jutsu... General Awesomo 21:46, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think, this jutsu page is unnecessary because its the same technique as Enton: Kagutsuchi only this is its defensive usage.--Salamancc (talk) 15:26, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that this is but one use of Kagutsuchi, but this article will likely remain as it was "unofficially" named in Ninja Storm 3. Having Kagutsuchi listed as the parent ability keeps things straight. SaiST (talk) 16:08, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Named or Unnamed
Karin calls it Shield of Black Flames, so we consider it unofficially named. But it has been properly named (albeit differently) in the games. Should we make it "officially" named, and even change it to what the games said? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:06, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Man, 7,862 edits and you still don't know how this works? lol jp. As you can see from the discussion in the "Game Name's Kanji and Literal English" section, this article will be getting a name change soon. Omnibender and Seelentau (hope I'm not forgetting anyone) are in the process of fine tuning the translations of the Naruto Shippūden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 techniques' kanji. Found here. General Awesomo 22:47, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

Keitaihenka
Where is Keitaihenka involved in this technique? Seelentau 愛議 21:16, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Answer: Probably nowhere, but C says so in chapter 463. Knowing you, that's enough proof, so nevermind. Seelentau 愛議 21:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Name re-opened
Can we please call this thing Blaze Release? I mean isn't Blaze Release anything that gives shape (besides a blast) to Amaterasu?(Evilpuppy (talk) 01:30, August 18, 2013 (UTC))


 * I personally like the description from the manga but the name came from a game, which means it's a tier higher than fan-given names :\ Joshbl  56  01:36, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Game only
Since the name comes from a game and if it were only manga and anime this would be under Enton: Susano'o Kakutsuchi shouldn't this be Game only? (Evilpuppy (talk) 01:23, September 30, 2013 (UTC))
 * Not really...this, unlike other Enton forms, shows no shape transformation...also the Susanoo Kagutsuchi involves manipulating the flames into various weapons of the Susanoo. Darksusanoo (talk) 03:24, September 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * C identified it as Shape Transformation of Amaterasu's flames immediately after it was used, Darksusanoo. Shape Transformation isn't just about molding the chakra to take the likeness of various objects, but controlling it's movement as well... Evilpuppy, Susanoo Kagutsuchi entails the act of Sasuke using Kagutsuchi through Susanoo; manipulating it's orb of Amaterasu's black flames. It isn't the same as Sasuke using both Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi to spread the flames upon his Susanoo. —「SaiST」Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg 14:06, September 30, 2013 (UTC)