Talk:Tobi

Master Manipulator?
Does anyone get the idea, that no matter what Madara's real identity is (Danzo, Obito, or whoever), that he is the master manipulator who set up the events of the entire history of the series? From his defection from Konoha to the present? In chapter 404, he talks with Zetsu about the plan to destroy Konoha as Itachi is no longer in his way, and Zetsu mentions that he has waited a long time. This gets me wondering what exactly Madara wants to accomplish and how long he has had this plan in effect.Miraitrunks766 12:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Family
Should it be included that his living family members are Sasuke and Itachi? Sasuke9031 20:18, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * We have little to know proof that they are related or how they are related. If I'm correct, someone could be apart of a clan and not be related to anyone.--TheUltimate3 22:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * But, the Uchiha clan carries a "bloodline limit". And the Sharingan is a trait associated with that blood.  So...everyone in the Uchiha clan MUST be related.  In order to have the same type of DNA necessary to produce that abnormality, they must share a common ancestor and therefore all be related, if nothing more than distant ancestors.  205.133.131.16 01:39, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Not entirely true... Kakashi Hatake has the Sharingan because it was transplanted, and he's not an Uchiha. But that's not the point... Sure they may have a distant ancestor who is common to them... But if you look a few billion years back in history, you and I could share an ancestor. That doesn't make it notable... Once you say "This person is the grandson of my great uncles great aunt" it has little point... The Family section is meant for immediate and notable family, not everyone who is in the same clan as them. That's why we have the template which groups every member of a clan into that clan. There's no point in putting every Chuck, Noris, and John who is in the same clan inside a box of someone's family, quite simply because it degrades the list and makes the important people who's relations to the character are more crucial to the series harder to find. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion  Jan 5, 2008 @ 01:49 (UTC)

Adding this now. Tobi is Madara, Deal with it.
Well, the title says it all, but in case you still think otherwise, here is the Great Kawa's words on the subject, which is so far the most insightful, well thought out reasoning thus far. Until this is debunked, its "law" so says Wikipedia's Naruto Taskforce.

lright, I'll clear this up for the people who are clueless as to Japanese. I am no expert, but I am taking the JLPT and I have studied Japanese and act as an amateur translator. What Tobi says exactly is:「写輪眼の本当の力が・・・このうちはマダラの力が 」Which in roumaji transliterates to "Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga." Which in English literally means: "The Sharingan's true power...this/that, Uchiha Madara's power." Now, I and other amateur translators suggested on the forums where this Japanese was discussed that it meant he was referring to the "power of Uchiha Madara" which meant the Sharingan or something like that. However, expert translators and native Japanese have said that the "kono" which is usually used as a demonstrative adjective for "this/that (object)" is used sort of as a pronoun in reference to himself (a supervillain way, some translators said as when Zabuza said "Kono Momochi Zabuza" to refer to say "I am Momochi Zabuza") and his power. And the translation has been looked at over and over again by experts in Japanese and that seems to be the general consensus. So, wisen up and accept the translation! The great kawa 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC

Thank you.--TheUltimate3 03:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * And in ch. 383, Pein refers to his talk with MADARA UCHIHA. Madara uchiha99 14:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Madara uchiha99

U know the Category: Uchiha page? Well, it's empty now; I took the liberty to put it all in the Category: Uchiha clan page. The reason I mention this is because I need a Jonin to delete the page for me (i'm a genin, i can't) Madara uchiha99 23:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)Madara uchiha99
 * I already know, I was the one that did the move. I'm just waiting for the category to actually empty out, there are still some images that shouldn't even be inside of a clan category there. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 1, 2007 @ 03:31 (UTC)
 * I knew you did that. Well, I just deleted the links from the dead page to the images. Madara uchiha99 17:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)Madara uchiha99
 * Thank you for the clarification. I saw no reference to Tobi referencing himself as Madara, since I read a fan-translated version of the chapter, so I was confused as to how such a conclusion came to be. --Dubtiger 03:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh... I'm confused.
What's a Hanyo? I'm just wondering because someone said Tobi was one on the wiki. Madara uchiha99 23:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)Madara uchiha99

Okay, I did some searching, and i found out that a hanyo is a half demon. This may be because of the theory on the Naruto forums that Madara Uchiha's father was a tengu. This theory is undeniably backed up, but it has not been completely verified. I'm gonna edit this page now. Madara uchiha99 23:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)Madara uchiha99

differense in anime/manga
in the Anime it is Tobi who says "Tobi is a Good boy", that or Zetsu's other half have a very simillar voice :P

also i suggest ther should be a picture of "old" madara i.e the way he looked like in shodaimes time
 * Whoever you are: good luck in finding a pic of olden Madara: there are none, except maybe a statue of him at the Valley of the End. --Dubtiger 03:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a picture, (which I believe I have) but as of now it should remain Tobi. Cause technically, Tobi is the original version and thats how its usually done. (Like we use a picture of Part I Naruto instead of a Part II.) Likewise, we don't know if Madara really looks like that, but we do know he looks like Tobi now.--TheUltimate3 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, if you have one to upload it would fit in the content of the article though. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 6, 2007 @ 05:17 (UTC)


 * Hey, actually I can get that pic. Though I'm very much unfamiliar with uploading pics and such here :(  But I'll try.  205.133.131.16 01:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * You'll need a user account to upload it. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Jan 5, 2008 @ 01:49 (UTC)

Main image
Where this article currently has a picture of Tobi as he appears in the anime, is this really the most definitive image for depicting Madara Uchiha? Where this does reflect his current appearence in the series, it could be argued that as Tobi is essentially a disguise for Madara Uchiha, this image does not reflect the "true" Madara. Further, a number of characters have had alterations to their appearence throughout the course of the series, such as Kabuto in terms of his integration of Orochimaru's remains, or Jiraiya in terms of his sage mode, or to a lesser extent the Third Hokage's appearence in flashbacks. In regards to the fairly consistant traits within these characters' physical appearences, neither Kabuto or Jiraiya are depicted primarily with these alterations, nor is the Third Hokage depicted primarily in his youth. On that note, the most consistant depiction of Madara as of this point in the series is his appearence during the founding of Konoha, as he has not yet been shown outside of his Tobi persona, which can debatably be seen as a little more than a disguise, it would seem to follow that Madara's appearence during the founding of Konoha is his most definitive appearence. 24.24.90.148 03:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually the most consistent depiction of Madara would be Tobi, as he as actually appeared more times as Tobi then the flashbacks of Madara. Thats really my main gripe about changing the picture. At the moment, we know what exactly Madara looked like at the moment he was revealed in the story, as Tobi (even with all that mystery behind him) he was still Madara.--TheUltimate3 03:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, all those other characters took a role previously in the series and then had their appearances changed later. The difference with Madara is the fact that he was actually introduced into the series as Tobi and is the one actively taking a part in the plot. Madara Uchiha is a historical figure, his past identity basically. So we basically use Tobi's appearance not because it was first, but because this is the first appearance we see that takes an active role in the story's plot. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Jan 26, 2008 @ 06:39 (UTC)

Well, the way things are going, in the next issue we'll have a nice, juicy main image. Madara uchiha99 (talk), Kanji: うちは マダラ 九十九, Romaji: Uchiha madara kyū-jū-kyū 20:45, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Why? Why? Why?  I Swear!
Seriously, this is the longest ever drawn out retard fest promoting a conjecture that is so unbelievably vague and dubious I had to witness 23 pages of postings on Narutofan Forums where people were drawing out over arching arguments mingled with insults and flaming all around. For something like Tobi being Madara drawing out so much bickering, it has no right being posted as a fact within a wiki. Plus - man, is it me or is everyone ignoring the fact that in the last issue of the manga, Naruto issue 396, Tobi unmasks and is revealed to possess a single active right eye Sharingan, where Kakashi has an active left Sharingan. I mean, this is a dead-as-a-door-nail give away as to who Tobi really is. I don't care about the prior posting that says "Tobi is Madara - Deal With It." I honestly think the guy that posted that is a dye of the wool fan of the theory that Madara is extremely long lived. I mean Kakashi was visibly spooked. And any guy who gets spooked like that could only get that way when knowing full well that every Uchiha ever accounted for in Hidden Leaf, let alone sucking in breath, is dead, minus two. Sure, the guy referred to himself as Uchiha Madara, but there were plenty of other guys who spoke, read, and wrote Japanese that disputed that the words the guy, Tobi, used were "...like Uchiha Madara" in reference to the potential power he wished to acquire: (paraphrasing) "To acquire power likened to Uchiha Madara". So frankly, I think you guys are going to eat your very own words when its shown that it was Uchiha Obito gallivanting around the whole fuckin' time. Plus to base an entry on the word of someone who claims this or that is a poor excuse to include it as a wiki entry. I won't bother changing the entry here for Tobi, but I'm sure someone will once word gets out. I can almost guarantee it. - Psypho 20:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Dude. You obviously have not reading the explanation as to why the wiki is that as it is. Your explanation was the same as mine until another user pointed out that this tidbit just could not be easily translated from Japanese to English because of conjugation. --Dubtiger 21:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

lright, I'll clear this up for the people who are clueless as to Japanese. I am no expert, but I am taking the JLPT and I have studied Japanese and act as an amateur translator. What Tobi says exactly is:「写輪眼の本当の力が・・・このうちはマダラの力が 」Which in roumaji transliterates to "Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga." Which in English literally means: "The Sharingan's true power...this/that, Uchiha Madara's power." Now, I and other amateur translators suggested on the forums where this Japanese was discussed that it meant he was referring to the "power of Uchiha Madara" which meant the Sharingan or something like that. However, expert translators and native Japanese have said that the "kono" which is usually used as a demonstrative adjective for "this/that (object)" is used sort of as a pronoun in reference to himself (a supervillain way, some translators said as when Zabuza said "Kono Momochi Zabuza" to refer to say "I am Momochi Zabuza") and his power. And the translation has been looked at over and over again by experts in Japanese and that seems to be the general consensus. So, wisen up and accept the translation! The great kawa 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Deal with it.


 * Now to add on to this old argument, Itachi recently said there are only three surviving Uchiha, himself, Sasuke Uchiha, and his former mentor, Madara Uchiha. Tobi just said "I am a living breathing Uchiha, and I know the truth of Itachi Uchiha" or something to that effect, I'm not reading it right now. Regardless, I would NOT be surprised if Madara had gotten a hold of Obito crushed body and fixed it up for his spirit or something. That wouldn't surprise me at all. But STILL thinking that Obito went to the Dark Side, when EVERY BIT OF CREDIBLE EVIDENCE 1) SHOWS HE'S DEAD 2) THAT HE IS MADARA UCHIHA shows that people holding on to the Obitobi theory without working it to accommodate new information just simply epically fails.

Now your point on Kakashi, is a blatant ignoring of reality. Why? Because as far as he knows there was only 2 surviving Uchiha, and yet he sees someone else with it. WTF is probably going off in his mind, quickly followed by "All the Uchiha are dead, who is this guy?!?" Your assumption that he's shocked because he suddenly thinks he sees Obito is to put it frankly: stupid. And a side note, as far as I could gather, swearing or words seemed offense (your use of the term "retard" and the oh so favorite F-word) is punishable by blocking. So I'd get to editing your own post. Thank you. /bow4 --TheUltimate3 21:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Madara's Disguises...
madara disguises as tobi in akatsuki.. ryt? Is it true that madara used the dead body of obito??.. Is it also true that danzo is madara in disguise to freely spy on konoha? seems like coincidence but danzo also lost his right eye.. somebody tell me pls.. tnx.. (^^,) - Sageknight 9:28, 12 April 2008


 * clears throat* As of now, it looks as if Madara created Tobi for the soul purpose of getting inside Akatsuki to influence its daily affairs. We don't know what is hiding behind Tobi's mask, but its a common fan theory that either Tobi is Obito turned to the Dark Side. There is another theory that is far more logical is that Tobi is Madara using Obito's body. The Danzo thing comes from a very very bad piece of fan art and the use of that very same coincidence, similar to how Tobi MUST be Obito because their names are similar (which isn't uncommon in Japan) and that they Tobi only has his Sharingan in his right eye. --TheUltimate3 10:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

so nothing's clear yet.. everything remains a mystery after all.. it's still best to wait what's gonna happen.. - Sageknight 22:25, 12 April 2008


 * Yup, which is exactly why the wiki page sticks to "Madara is Tobi" for now as that was the last consensually agreed to interpretation. Any major article changes wait till after facts have stabilized. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Apr 13, 2008 @ 01:02 (UTC)

Flight
Madara can fly. Proof is in chapter 396; page 2. Its kinda obvious that's how he crosses great distances at such short periods of time. So please include it in the abilities section

He can teleport. There's a difference. -Cathy

Tobi???
Ok still a little confused. I know in manga #397 Tobi tells sauske that he is Madara Uchiha. And in manga #386 we find out from Itachi that after Madara was defeated by the first hokage he formed and stared a group that we all know as the "akatsuki" Ok here is where i start getting a little confused. If you go back to after Sasori's death, when Zetsu and Tobi were looking for him and his ring. Tobi finds the ring and says "that means i can become an akatsuki member now, right?? After all you have a vacent place" Then Zetsu states " Idiot, its not that simple!" Then we hear Tobi's famous line "It will be fine, Tobi is a good boy." If you watch the shippuden series, when tobi is making that statement (tobi is a good boy) at the top of the screen you see a sentence which states (He uses "tobi" in this case to refer to himself). OK here is where i'm confused, Why would the founder of the akatsuki have to ask to become a member of his own group? It would almost be like a business owner asking an employee that works there if he could join his own company or business. And if He is Madara why would zetsu talk down to him and call him an idiot? And i'm still a little blurry on the statement (he uses "tobi in this case to refer to himself) tobi was definately talking about himself, but why not say madara (if thats who he is) its only Zetsu and him standing there, if it was a big secret i'm sure he could have made zetsu keep it quiet at risk of losing his life or something. And last there has got to be a reason behind tobi's mask, evryone has a theroy, but why only show his right eye?? There has been no reason so far what we have learned abotu Madara, why he should cover his left eye. Maybe he just making a fashion statement, who knows. Well thx, if i may have missed something that would explain more please fell free to post


 * Clears throat* Because, the best way to influence what your underlings do is to become one of your underlings. As he made painfully clear, Itachi was not really on his side, so when Tobi went with Zetsu to get Sasori's ring, Itachi at any time could have ninja'ed his way to hide. And thus, kept the alias of Tobi to "hopefully" throw Itachi off. And the mask thing actually possesses an interesting reason. Because it swirls it leads directly towards 1 eye. When you look at him, your subconscious immidiently targets that eye. All he has to do is get his Sharingan ready, and your stuck in a genjutsu before you know it.--TheUltimate3 20:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Tobi/Madara
Could it be possible that Madara's original body has been intergrated with other bodies or just 1 body? I have seen in many forums that some think that Madara is using Obito's body that was crushed. What about a split personality of some sorts? Maybe why we see Tobi acting a fool so much, its his (obito's) real personality coming out. But when important or vital things happen madara's power and persoality take over? I know in manga 356 and 357 we see that Kabuto intergrated a part of Orochimaru into his body, and he talked about how it took a lot of his power just to supress orochimaru's body from completly taking over his. And we also notice that in the last minutes of the Itachi Sauske fight, Orochimaru shows up from hidding in Sauske's body to try and fight Itachi with his hydra attack. So basically parts of Orochimaru were in 2 different hosts? Could Madara possibly be more than one person or part of him integrated with more than one? Sorry a few questions may sound like statements, but i'm kinda lookin for any answers or suggestions u all may have. Thanks, Naruto FTW!

What do you, whoever edited it, mean by "(presumed damages)"? --Kakashi Namikaze 10:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

New Arc?
Well I looked at the Madara/Tobi page and I have noticed its stops at the Hunt for Uchiha. Well right now in the manga Madara is telling Sasuke the true past of the leaf village(at least only the elders and uchiha know it) and I think there should be another section labeled Konoha's Past arc or Secrect History of Konoha arc or Founding of Kohona arc or something and under it should go be the info Madara is telling Sasuke.Also wouls osmbody put a pic f Madara where he shows sasuke the right side of his face and the pic of him in chap 399 of him fighting Hashirama or something~Saimaroimaru


 * Because that was essentially the arc we are still in. Whatever they are talking about (which is mostly background info on Madara and Hashimara are in the Background section as there is no real need to repeat it. --TheUltimate3 00:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I wonder if what Madara/Tobi is saying is actually true? 196.202.198.45 19:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Kip

Senpai v. Sempai
While I was reading the Madara Uchiha page, I read the Tobi section. Wow. Seriously it's senpai, the m alone doesn't exist in Japanese. If m doesn't exist as a single character/letter then how the hell can it be sempai? The reason people idiotically assume that it's sempai is that ん(n) when put before consonant sounds, like p, sounds like an m. It isn't. Believe it! Shirokage 03:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Shirokage
 * Here's a good bit of info on that . Yes, it is spelled senpai, the sempai is a pronunciation guide. Technically, the proper way to romanize it using modified hepburn it would be sen̄pai. Note the macron above the n. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion May 29, 2008 @ 10:30 (UTC)

Heh, I don't know much about Hepburn romanization though... so could you put some info up on it somewhere? ありがと! 02:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Shirokage
 * Hepburn romanization. For the most part just use what you find on Wikipedia. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion May 30, 2008 @ 02:37 (UTC)

ありがと,ダントマン-さま!02:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Shirokage
 * うど致しまして, If Google got that one right... ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion May 30, 2008 @ 02:51 (UTC)

Udochi mashite? That or Udo itasu mashite... I'm confused, both of which I have no idea what they mean.. And I was the one who uploaded the photo of Sasuke's new Mangekyo Sharingan, sorry, that was all that was available from Saiyan Island. Hey you used google translator. So don't complain. Anyways sorry for the bad image. Shirokage 02:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)Shirokage Do you know whether that's the On reading, or Kun reading? Because that makes a lot of difference... ありがと Shirokage 05:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)Shirokage

Madara Uchiha can use Amaterasu, Tysukuyomi, and Susano'o
Madara can perform all three jutsu because they are unlocked when an uchiha member gains the mangekyo sharingan, And since Madara uchiha was the first person to gain the mangekyo sharingan it should be noted he can use them, although he has not shown performing them as of Yet (although in chapter 386 page 10 theres a dark figure the looks like madara and seems to be performing Amaterasu), its know he performed the during the time he activated his mangekyo sharingan to the point when he blind and took his brothers eyes to awakin the "eternal" mangekyo sharingan.

Also when itachi and sasuke are fight and itachis explaing the clans history he talk about Madara Uchiha and how he got his mangekyo sharingan And "eternal" mangekyo sharingan, he also says that madara learned the Fourth and final eye techneque meaning he mastered the first three. Sakon & ukon70.127.255.124 13:57, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I say, let's wait to list them until we see him use the jutsus. I agree thet it seems logical that he can use them, but untill we see him doing it, let's wait with this speculation.

The argument makes sense, but until he is seen using the technique, there's little we can do. For now, a small mention is all it takes, something like "It is mentioned by Itachi that Madara mastered all the MS jutsus, but so far he has not displayed them", but with nicer words. Omnibender 16:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Madara is Mizukage???
It says in the article "It has also been recently revealed that at some point after being presumably killed, Madara took the role of Mizukage.", but in what Chapter? Shirokage 05:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Shirokage
 * Chapter 404 page 2. Jacce 05:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess I skipped that chapter accidentally...Shirokage 06:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)Shirokage
 * Though that "[has] been recently revealed" junk should be fixed. We shouldn't need to edit the page in a few months to fix that since won't be "recent" anymore. Besides, articles are supposed to be in-universe and saying something is "revealed" is clearly out of universe. We state the facts, not current transition. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Aug 4, 2008 @ 10:27 (UTC)

i thought that tobi was obito

Third databook
I was able to find a scan of Madara's article in the third databook (thanks to whoever uploaded it). If you want to see it, go here. I'll add some of the details. --ShounenSuki 19:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Here is the page for his younger brother --ShounenSuki 19:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Jutsus & Third Databook
Has the third databook confirmed all the jutsus that has been listed on Mandara, or is it guesses as usual?Jacce 10:29, 9 September 2008 (UT

Hey guys, Itachi's back! As of 419, the 3 akatsuki in their hideout are seens "sealing" kirabi? can we assume that Madara lead the ceremony and add the dragon nine consuming seals or whatever to his list of jutsu too? or wait til it's confirmed? ItachiZero 05:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)ItachiZero

Tobi= 29, Madara= 100?
This has been up for a while now. At first I thought it was just a tobi=obito believer (like me). Has this been confirmed? 64.252.36.163 23:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

actualy it's easy to explain. Well Madara is 100, but playing as Tobi he could not be, so he made up age for acting.

That doesn't make any sense... Can someone please explain? 64.252.36.163 18:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Izuna Uchiha
There is a little problem an the "Izuna Uchiha." the the thing is, that it Madara's image in youth insed of Izuna's image. Paths 12:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

tobi+madara=1 page?
i think we should sepretly place things about madara and things about tobi (hunt for the 2-tails=tobi) you get it


 * Tobi and Madara are the same person. No need to separate their page. --TheUltimate3 20:45, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree, Theultimate3. Please hear me out: Tobi is introduced into the story a lot before of the revelation of him being Madara. I entered the Tobi page looking for his techniques and facts before knowing that he was uchiha madara and was spoiled terribly. They behave differently and this is an exceptional case, if we keep the Tobi page redirecting to the Madara Uchiha page, we'll keep spoiling people. I know they are the same person but this has been the best kept revelation in the whole Naruto universe so we might put that aside and put Tobi in his own page. People who enter the Tobi page have been spoiled and this will continue unless a proper page for only Tobi and not his secret identity.

--Dadadaft 18:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes he was, he was introduced as Tobi back then they had separate pages. Then he revealed himself as Madara Uchiha. Right on the front page of the Wikia to expect to see spoilers. If it caught you unexpectedly I am sorry, but it says right there, this Wikia will be filled with Spoilers. Truth be told, if someone didn't to see spoilers than a Wikia is their worst enemy.--TheUltimate3 03:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)