Talk:Eight Trigrams Vacuum Palm

Affect
How does this jutsu affect the vital points?Neji of the gentle fist (talk) 10:45, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * By hitting them with a burst of high-pressure chakra. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:01, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Wind Release
Ok in English this technique is called the Air Palm, and since they say "Air" I thought it was part wind release when Neji sends out a blast of something. I could be mistaken, though, if he's wind natured.


 * No, the Databook states only the information given in the article and mentions no "Wind Release." Many wind- and air-related techniques such as Decapitating Airwaves and Daytime Tiger exist, yet they are not counted as Wind Release, each for their own reasons. In the case of this technique, it's just the chakra and force of the palm that builds up a "vacuum shell," not a change in the nature of chakra. --GoDai (talk) 07:37, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

And yet Nine-Tailed Fox Twister still gets the Wind Release tag? 98.200.153.143 (talk) 00:18, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is an anime-only technique. Anime doesn't always follow established manga canon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:34, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look hur we know that the Hyūga specialize in manipulation of chakra and such so it's much easier to assume that what the fox did was likely a wind release compared to what Neji did was a release of chakra (this is also proven with the Eight Trigrams Vacuum Wall Palm). I think if Kishimoto-sensei was stating that Neji had an elemental affinity he would've made it abundantly clear to us. --Cerez365 (talk) 01:07, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Range
In the neji chronicles it seems that this technique can be used from long distances. Maybe we should change the short to mid range tag? --Neji uchiha (talk) 03:42, December 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the official range, which was given by Kishimoto in the third databook.--Deva 27 (talk) 04:10, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

ok--Neji uchiha (talk) 06:17, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Which translation is better: "Eight Trigrams Empty Palm" or "Eight Trigrams Air Palm"?--LeafShinobi (talk) 18:01, May 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that the kū is more related to empty than to air. It's even part of the Japanese word for vacuum, which literally means "true/truly empty". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:09, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Kū' as 'air' does exist (e.g. kūchū, 空中: 'in the sky'), but in this case, 'empty' sounds like the better translation. After all, it's not like this technique has anything to do with air. It does, however, involve a vacuum: emptiness. —ShounenSuki (talk 09:46, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing to do with air? I thought the databook says that it "pushes the air with a fast palm attack" or whatever. I've always personally liked "Sky Palm" as "sky" seems to encapsulate both "emptiness"(empty sky) and "air"(obvious reasons), IMO. Empty Palm is good, too..sounds like something you'd hear on some Martial Arts movie where mystic powers are used. -Alexdhamp (talk) 21:05, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * The databook says this technique creates a vacuum shell. A vacuum is pure nothingness, hence why 'empty' is a better translations. It would also prevent any misunderstandings, as 'air' implies it uses Wind Release. —ShounenSuki (talk 21:33, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Push the air and shoot it at enemy, a secret Hyūga super-fast palm attack!!" that's your own translation, is it not? So, why would it mention "pushing the air" if it had nothing to do with air? I know vacuum is nothingness, but doesn't "kuu" also denote "air pressure/air force"? I've actually seen people take the "vacuum" or "empty" and misinterpret it, as well, on NF and try to convince me that the move is intended to suck the target in "like a vacuum". -Alexdhamp (talk) 23:27, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * That was a difficult sentence to translate >< The original Japanese actually uses 空 as kū. It also referred to creating a vacuum by pressure, but I had difficulty wording it properly without getting too liberal. Still, even if it did 'push air', the technique itself still wouldn't actually involve air. It would involve the vacuum created by pushing the air. Using 'Air Palm' implies this is a Wind Release technique, which it isn't. Using 'Empty Palm' or even 'Vacuum Palm' implies the technique utilises a vacuum to hit the target with, which is exactly what it does. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:15, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * My problem with it is the concept of "compressing a vacuum"..I don't see how that's even possible. A vacuum is pretty much the exact opposite of compression. You can, however, utilize a vacuum to compress air. Which gets me to the core of what I want to ask, I've never seen the raw, but is it possible that the original Japanese "vacuum shell" can be translated as "air(pressure or force) bullet"? -Alexdhamp (talk) 00:49, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Your problem is putting too much faith in Kishimoto-sensei's physics knowledge. He sucks at physics. That said, how do you utilise a vacuum to compress air? I don't see how that would work...
 * What I believe he meant was that the technique uses Gentle Fist to compress the air, or push it out of the way, so that a vacuum pocket is created, which is then shot at the enemy. Really, he's clearly talking about vacuums and not compressed air. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:05, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * You may be right.. As for how to compress air with a vacuum..that's what some air compressors do..it's also how I pictured Neji's(and presumably Hinata's, as well) technique working. Using Juuken to create a vacuum with chakra, that pulls in air then compresses it into an "air bullet"(which is why I asked about that), or a singular/localized point, by not letting it disperse as even more air is sucked in...which is then "shot" at the target. That's why I said I like Sky Palm as it encompasses both the ideas of "vacuum/emptiness" and "air pressure/force". -Alexdhamp (talk) 01:30, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not how vacuum work, though. First of all, a vacuum is only a vacuum as long as it is completely devoid of matter. As soon as a bit of air is sucked in, it is no longer a vacuum. Even then, it only sucks in air as long as the pressure within the 'vacuum' pocket is lower than that of the surrounding air. When the pressure is normalised, it stops sucking in air, thus making it impossible to compress air this way. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:53, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Except that's pretty much how air compressors work. They draw air in(like/via a vacuum), capture it, then use something like a piston to compress it, then the process is repeated to fill up the tank with pressurized air. As I said, I had pictured that Juuken was used to create a vacuum with chakra, which draws in air into a single point, holds it there while compressing(which creates free/empty space, as that's what compressing something does, it reduces the volume it uses) it as it continues to draw more in, compressing it into the stored compressed air and chakra, all simultaneously until the "air bullet" is formed. Again, much like an air compressor works. But, you're probably right as you can read the original Japanese and all it's implications, so I digress. -Alexdhamp (talk) 02:46, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, you mean like that. I'm sorry, I thought you meant to say that the vacuum continuously sucks in air, even after the pressure was normalised again. I didn't realise you meant to say that a new vacuum was created each time within a confined space and the air sucked in kept being compressed. I understand now ^^
 * Still quite far removed from how Kishimoto-sensei explained it. I'm sure if he had something like this in mind, he would have made it more clear. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:26, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Kekkei Genkai
Why is this technique classified as a Kekkei Genkai? Is the Byakugan necessary to use this technique? No vision of a person's chakra pathways are necessary. It seems to be just a form of chakra control. Unless it's categorized as that in a databook, I don't really get why it's a Kekkei Genkai technique. 02:38, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is categorised as such in the databook, because the vitals of the opponent are targeted using the Byakugan. Reading the article would have told you that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:48, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * If the databook says that, then fine by me. I figured that using the Byakugan just made the attack more effective. A compressed burst of chakra anywhere would hurt, no? 20:05, April 13, 2012 (UTC)