Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-142748-20150410212019/@comment-142748-20150413054755

Trappedinmygenjutsu wrote: Itachi has been shown to kill when he has to, but he generally avoids doing so since he is a pacifist. If Itachi was a true pacifist, he wouldn't be a ninja at all. He's a technical pacifist, he dislikes fighting but he will do it. Not only that, he has to keep his cover lest his true allegiance is discovered and will kill his fellow Konoha shinobi if need be. If not for Guy's intervention, he'd have had Kisame kill Asuma and Kurenai since they were helpless. Naruto also has Asura's chakra within him and that does jack all in terms of protecting himself from Itachi's genjutsu. For all we know, it could have provided him with more resistances than normal. Not that it matters, Hashirama came to his own at full power, he should be easily able to break Itachi's genjutsu. Its kind of common sense. Most of Itachi's abilities are well known but Orochimaru (biggest source of intel in the series) did not know of Itachi's Susanoo and the weapons that it possessed. Itachi only had to fight at what Kabuto though was full power and he was able to hold back the rest of his abilities in order to help Killer Bee and Naruto. Kabuto knew of Itachi's Susanoo and everything. Orochimaru also didn't bother to go after Itachi again and set his sights on Sasuke.

And...Itachi's mind wasn't crushed and Kabuto wasn't fighting through him. Itachi had his own mind, which forced him to make decisions to fight at his full power when he had no other choice. Why are you acting like Kabuto crushed his mind and made him a mindless like he did Nagato or Chukichi? Do you honestly think he would have became as feared as he was if all anyone had to do was genjutsu: kai in order to stop him? Tsukuyomi wouldn't even give Hashirama enough time to use the technique even if he wanted to and the experiences that Hashirama has experianced won't protect himself from Itachi's genjutsu. Everything that Kakashi had to deal with (mother died while young, Father committed suicide, Both team mates died in front of him, teacher died, the hokage recently died after the village was nearly destroyed, enduring the 3rd shinobi war) and Kakashi only lasted 1 second in the Tsukuyomi, Hashirama would not last very long before being in a similar condition to Kakashi. Itachi is a phenomenal genjutsu user, but every use has either been countered, endured, or when it succeeded? It was on a greenhorn Naruto who had no experience with Genjutsu, both times.

Tsukuyomi inflicts massive mental trauma, but it can be resisted. And like all genjutsu, it can't kill. Even a Sharingan-less Sasuke was conscious after its use. Hashirama should be able to endure it. As I have stated earlier, Hashirama would not be able to tell that Itachi is a genjutsu specialist until he is caught in a genjutsu and experiencing drunken dreams for the rest of eternity. Hashirama and Madara's battles relied on ninjutsu and destructive power, but that is not what this fight is about since it is Hashirama VS Itachi. We havent' seen the entirety of Madara and Hashirama's battles. Madara has used genjutsu in combat, so why wouldn't he use it against Hashirama? And practically ALL Uchiha are genjutsu users and specialists, why should Itachi get so much special treatment, making him out to be 'more special' than the rest of the clan and even the likes of Madara? How much sense is that?

Rachin123 wrote: @Super Firstly your belief pales in comparison to hardcore facts. I mean anybody can believe. Just because he's a incarnation of Asura doesn't mean he's automatically able to get out of any genjutsu. And Tsukuyomi doesn't have to kill him but if he does bear the effects, he'd be in maybe a slightly better state than Kakashi and that's nothing really. Also having high chakra has zero to do with dispelling genjutsu so don't bring false info like that into this. And what do you mean the stuff Hashirama went through? IMO Sasuke had it worse and genjutsu still affected him nonetheless. Itachi has the Yata mirror, genjutsu, he can even point and get him, the Totsuka Blade, Susanoo. I just don't seem how Hashirama would win this. Again I'm not saying Itachi wins easily. He has low stamina, yes but he has shown to last a good amount of time during his fight with Sasuke and he wasnt trying to kill him. All you got are insinuations about Hashirama genjutsu. Yes Hashirama waa called the "God of Shinobi" but youre taking that out of context. That doesnbt mean he excels in everything, but what he got he waa sure strong. And what BZ said might be a hyperbole but we have no reason to believe its not invincible but it may most likely not be but damn sure it'd be durable as heck, its one of the Treasured Tools for crying out loud. Also you're sort of being a hypocrite by saying what BZ says is a hyperbole and have no reason to believe it but we have no reason whatsoever except a fan's "belief" that supports Hashirama having good genjutsu prowess. Hashirama is also a genjutsu user. It wouldn't surprise me if he, like Hiruzen, had a 5 in genjutsu stat. All of Itachi's genjutsu were easily broken, resisted, or countered. Even Itachi himself was put under a genjutsu he had no defense against and needed help breaking out. Itachi's genjutsu really aren't anything special outside of Tsukuyomi, and even then, a 8 year old sharingan-less Sasuke could resist it and stay conscious.

Yata Mirror and Sword of Totsuka are NOT part of the Sacred Tools in Naruto. They weren't created by the Sage. Not only that, they are NOT perfect weapons. Nothing in Naruto is invincible. What Black Zetsu said is hyperbole and we should NOT take it seriously, especially in a debate.

How doesn't Hashirama win this? Stronger jutsu, able to manipulate the battlefield at will, high intelligence and chakra control, and general scale of things. Hashirama was even said to be stronger than the Shinobi of Itachi's era, yet he's supposed to LOSE to Itachi, how does that make sense? You're overestimating Itachi, putting him on a level he was not in the manga.