Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-32832770-20170812151353/@comment-5085906-20170818184933

Thekillman wrote: Mr. Grave wrote: It doesn't mean that he wasn't in full control. I know you're basing Juubi control off of what we saw from Madara, but the truth is Madara fought Naruto and Sasuke for a few minutes only until Black Zetsu backstabbed him. We did see Madara being hit by a Lava Rasenshuriken and not having all his Biju ripped out, even though a simple Majestic Susanoo slash did the same for obito.

I think it's fairly evident that Obito's grasp over the Juubi was inferior to Madara's, and that it resulted in some of the major differences we saw. For instance, how easily Obito's beasts were removed, or that he couldn't Kamui himself in any way.

Kaguya didn't get the same effect until hit by the chakra of all nine biju in a specialized attack, only when she was getting low and even then quickly regained control. But like i said, Obito losing control violates the terms of the Versus. Ergo, he simply cannot lose control.

This takes away Naruto's main mechanism of winning, and quite frankly i don't see The Last naruto winning this in any way. I did admit that Obito was unsteady towards the end when things took a very "friendship is magic" turn and that is precisely the reason why a Susanoo slash was enough to free the beasts. However, I argue that unlike what you are suggesting, we did see Obito be in full control towards the middle part of the battle. There was nothing to suggest that the same Obito who was mocking Minato and spitting on all of the Hokage's face was struggling to gain control of his form. And asides from his poor performance, there was no definitive piece of evidence that Madara was superior to him outside of having Hashirama's Sage Mode, which Obito didn't have, and maybe pure skill as we know Madara was gifted enough to rival Hashirama without hax.

And again, the thing about Kamui - it's not proven that Obito couldn't warp himself out of the battlefield. It's just that he didn't want to as it would 1)leave him vulnerable to Minato, whom he already fought before and had already figured him out and 2)he was trying to initiate Infinite Tsukuyomi and he wouldn't be able to do that if he just rolled his belly at the sight of the first incovenience.

And I don't get your logic of 'he has full control so he can't lose it' as that clearly didn't work with Kaguya.

But okay, let's assume that Naruto doesn't possess all the natures from the Tailed Beasts. I still believe that the Choodama Rasenshuriken has the power to leave him immobilized, even if he can use the warp function of Kamui since both of the Rasengan variants travel quite fast and we know for sure Obito needs to remain tangible for a while in order to finalize the warp. Judging by the damage two of those from half-Kurama Naruto did, then I can estimate it to be at least on par with what Guy did to Madara or maybe even worse.

If that doesn't work out, then I insist that Naruto can remove the Tailed Beast chakra from Obito using that unnamed technique that he used when removing Toneri's orb from Hinata.