Talk:Outer Path

Classification
isn't it a genjutsu?


 * Good question! I don't know. The Naraka Path is supposedly a Genjutsu user, but them agian, when was that ever made official? Also, it physically ate and healed the Asura Path. Maybe the Genjutsu is just that powerful...I guess you should put it as Genjutsu for now, until it's official.-xnaminex


 * The only way the King of Hell is going to be a genjutsu is if Kishimoto decides to completely ignore everything he's told us so far about what genjutsu are and how they work. --ShounenSuki 01:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

It seems to me that this a summoned creature like in the reaper death seal, not a jutsu in itself. Should I modify the category jutsu, and ninjutsu to be summons? 74.236.92.133 (talk) 01:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a summon, but it wouldn't appear to be a regular jutsu either. Might be simplest to just attribute it to the Rinnegan. Or resolve the discussion below. ~SnapperTo 19:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Quick question, how exactly does Nagato summon Kin of Hell? Is he really using the Summoning Jutsu, or is this more like Dead Demon Consuming Seal? Normally I believe we classify "Summons" as creatures who exist elsewhere, a blood contract has been made with, and thus the user may use the Summoning Jutsu to summon those creatures. Beings that are created or show up as the result of other jutsu are normally just classified as Ninjustu. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) May 31, 2009 @ 19:36 (UTC)


 * When the Naraka path uses it it just appears, a la the Dead Demon Consuming Seal. When Nagato uses it it appears in a puff of smoke like summons do. Unless the smoke is from something else, there are conflicting accounts (not that I seriously believe it's being summoned from somewhere). ~SnapperTo 19:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The same discussion could be held about what Susano'o is. I think that the King Of Hell is the summoning of a creature living somewhere else (I would bet my money that it resides in Hell :P), but not through the normal Kuchiyose no Jutsu else it would be a technique of the Animal Path. I think it is ninjutsu summoning in the end (I understood from the discussion that the dilemma was whether it was ninjutsu or genjutsu) but perhaps not through the conventional Kuchiyose involving blood contracts and such. - MadaraU (talk) 19:09, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Outer Path
In chapter 449, Konan calls the King of Hell the seventh Pain; the. I think this should be mentioned somewhere. --ShounenSuki (talk 11:37, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought she called Nagato the Outer Path. /shrug But I'll add it.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe I misinterpreted it...
 * Here's what Konan said, translated as literally as I could:
 * To me, it seems Konan is talking about the technique Nagato is about to use, referring to that as the seventh Pain and not Nagato. --ShounenSuki (talk 13:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just by reading it, I think she was talking about well agian Nagato. "Nagato's [Rinnegan] is a technique that contorls life and deaht itself, the Seventh Pain." By replacing eye power with Rinnegan (which I assume that is what she ment), I think is referring to the user of it, Nagato as the seventh Pain.--14:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I assumed she was talking about the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique, because Naruto asked what technique Nagato was using. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm getting confused now....you assume one thing, I assume the other. Neither of us can be sure because damn Kishimoto likes to do this...Compromise then?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Compromises are always good. What do you suggest? --ShounenSuki (talk 14:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Outer Path is mentioned somewhere in the Six Paths page...referencing Nagato and the King of Hell...somehow...fill in the blanks as I know there are blanks.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How about something like... "Just before Nagato used the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique, Konan explained the technique to Naruto, mentioning a seventh Pain. Referring to it as the, it is not entirely clear whether she meant Nagato or the King of Hell used in the technique." --ShounenSuki (talk 14:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect! --TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I added it to the Six paths of Pain page. If you don't agree on the placing, feel free to move it around. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, that was one of the most civilized discussions, nice. However I am of the opinion that Gedo is indeed Nagato. First of all it seemed extremely clear that Naraka Path used the King Of Hell in those truth or false/life or death "contests" with the villagers of Konoha. It would be awkward if the seventh path would be used by another path. Secondly, Nagato used all those dead bodies because he had control over life and death (much like how I understood the Gedo's powers). If indeed the King Of Hell is the Gedo (the life and death path outside the other paths - gedo in itself means outer from what I've understood, outer as in outside of the six realms: god, animal, human etc) it would be awkward for it to be used by another path which is in fact a dead body (like the Naraka path was). I hope I have not cast more confusion. I am almost completely sure that Nagato is the Gedo (Outer Path) and in the Pain Rikudo article it should be mentioned. I decided not to go on my own with modifying after seeing this discussion. I am leaving it at your call and correct me if I understood something wrong. Oh and by the way SHOUNENSUKI (master of jap here on narutowiki ^:)^ - I am not being ironic :P )please tell us the name of the King Of Hell technique in jap. In fact that is why I stumbled upon this discussion, because of the technique's name :D - MadaraU (talk) 18:54, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perfect! --TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:43, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I added it to the Six paths of Pain page. If you don't agree on the placing, feel free to move it around. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, that was one of the most civilized discussions, nice. However I am of the opinion that Gedo is indeed Nagato. First of all it seemed extremely clear that Naraka Path used the King Of Hell in those truth or false/life or death "contests" with the villagers of Konoha. It would be awkward if the seventh path would be used by another path. Secondly, Nagato used all those dead bodies because he had control over life and death (much like how I understood the Gedo's powers). If indeed the King Of Hell is the Gedo (the life and death path outside the other paths - gedo in itself means outer from what I've understood, outer as in outside of the six realms: god, animal, human etc) it would be awkward for it to be used by another path which is in fact a dead body (like the Naraka path was). I hope I have not cast more confusion. I am almost completely sure that Nagato is the Gedo (Outer Path) and in the Pain Rikudo article it should be mentioned. I decided not to go on my own with modifying after seeing this discussion. I am leaving it at your call and correct me if I understood something wrong. Oh and by the way SHOUNENSUKI (master of jap here on narutowiki ^:)^ - I am not being ironic :P )please tell us the name of the King Of Hell technique in jap. In fact that is why I stumbled upon this discussion, because of the technique's name :D - MadaraU (talk) 18:54, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with MadaraU. Now that we have more information, what is the difference in their abilities? Here's what I think.
 * The Naraka Path = This path has control of the King of Hell itself. The path's primary role is to present beings before the King of Hell for interrogation, or in a broader sense, judgment. If the being has "impure Karma" (negative actions of mind, speech, or body), the King of Hell takes their life force into it's mouth and consumes it. If we can assume this ability was used back in the days of the Sage, it could be used to judge and punish truly heinous individuals, and possible to send demons/yoki to the underworld. The Naraka path could also have been used for intimidation, as beings presented to the King of Hell appear to be physically paralyzed with something akin to fear.
 * The Outer Path = This path is Nagato himself, who has the power to control Life and Death. This is a separate power from the other six paths. The abilities include, (1) The resurrection of deceased bodies back to living functionality, with or without their original souls. This ability can be used in "conjunction" with the King of Hell, through the use of the Naraka path's ability. This would mean the ability to heal and repair the other paths derives from the Outer Path. The Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique and how the individual Six Paths of Pain were created comes from this ability. (2) The extraction and sealing of spirits/souls taken from living beings, such as humans and demons (i.e. Tailed Beasts). This ability can be used in "conjunction" with Demonic Statue of the Outer Path.

The gist of what I'm saying is this. The Naraka Path's ability is specifically to control the King of Hell. The Outer Path's ability is to specifically control Life and Death. These are 2 separate abilities. Nagato is specifically referred to by Konan as the 7th Path, not the King of Hell. Lastly....I feel really strongly about this. So even if my fellow members don't agree with what I'm saying, I hope that someone will make sure there is a proper distinction between the Naraka and Outer Paths.Cidem1324

Going through all your points. With this, there is a clear distinction between the Outer Path and the Naraka Path. The Naraka Path is one of the Six Paths of Pain which Pain uses to do his dastardly deeds and the Outer path the Seventh Pain which Nagato, the user of the Rinnegan can control, and he does frequently through the use of the Naraka path.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:16, December 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * The Naraka path, being an extension of Pain is the only one that can use the King of Hell, that is true.
 * The second point however is where things get skewed. The Naraka path isn't using the jutsu, Pain is. The Naraka path is just the body that he can channel the King of Hell through. Read the direct text from the manga, the Rinnegan controls the Seventh Pain, not IS the Seventh Pain, then based off the fanbook where it is clear that Pain is not the Outer Path.

Black Flames?
I see black flames below the King Of Hell. Isn't that Amaterasu?
 * Could be because when Amaterasu was used it was said (by Zetsu if I am not mistaken) that the technique brought forth the Black Flames of Hell (the place from which, according to the name of the technique bringing it forth, the King of Hell comes) - MadaraU (talk) 07:22, October 11, 2009 (UTC)