Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180831184217

LegionZero wrote: Manga is a visual medium. It doesnt have to tell us everything. It communicates just as much by showing us things.

Yellow-cross eyes have only ever appeared once Naruto obtained SPSM. I caan point out every single time this unique eye design showed up.(and they all corrospond to Naruto using SPSM)

Just a heads up, dojutsu like Sharingan and Rinnegan override non-dojutsu eye designs. Take a look at any time Sasuke used his Sharingan with Curse Mode active(Orochimaru's Curse Marks are a variation of Sage Transformation which is a form of Senjutsu by the way)

Do you have any explaination for Naruto's new eyes? Or why they come and go when he uses SPSM? Or are you saying they are there for shits and giggles? The image(s) relies on dialogue and narration. Without it you are left to interpret, create a personal narrative and guess the meaning of said image(s) instead. That’s implies a margin of error, whereas I can cite the narrative and gain all the relevant information to understand said image(s). Without guessing, my margin of error is significantly less than yours, if any at all. Maybe your approach would work for titles like Age of Reptiles, Moon Knight, or even the first 4 issues of Shaolin Cowboy. But Naruto aren’t those titles and your speculation is wrong. It’s wrong because you can’t support it without falsely equating the standards of different forms with different powers and hallmarks. Your claim is based on fallacy and is far from factual.

LegionZero wrote:The Yang seal doesnt give him healing powers. The Yang Seal is used with the Yin Seal to activate 6 Paths Chibaku Tensei

Naruto with just the Yellow-Cross Eyes could dodge a Limbo clone. Which he can only sense with SPSM.

Madara also doesnt directly say that it is SPS until the chapter you cited but thats because he didnt figure it out until then. In the next chapter questions exactly what kind of power up Naruto got so even though he called it 6 Paths Senjutsu. He doesnt even fully understand the ins and outs of Naruto's new abilities. He knew Naruto was different before he activated the cloak, he just didnt understand how at the time.

We know his rikudo hand seal is responsible for saving guy, it’s been consistently shown and implied to be. Naruto not only placed a seal on guy identical to that on his hand. Later when he was questioned about saving guy, Naruto looks at his hand giving credit of the feat to rikudo seal. There’s no questions about it. Everything is there for you to read and comprehend. His hand seal is what heals guy. Madara knew exactly what power Naruto and Sasuke got that could see and sense limbo. What he questioned was how they got it. The power he didn’t know about were the hand seals. That hand seal didn’t gradually raise Naruto’ level of power that madara was sensing, rikudo senjutsu did that. So Naruto had started producing rikudo senjutsu when he sensed limbo. Once he had enough of it, Naruto entered rsm. The same happened again later when he fought Sasuke. His eyes changing doesn’t have any significance. Even the databook would’ve affirmed that if it were true, just as it affirmed the presence of juubi’ chakra.

LegionZero wrote:The same powers didnt result from it though. The only 2 people to get the same abilities were Obito and Madara who used the same method of obtaining 6 Paths Senjutsu.

Kaguya didnt gain Juubi chakra. She is the Juubi. Kaguya did gain rikudo senjutsu. That’s like saying kurama can’t use kurama chakra. You just said she is the juubi, obviously she’d have access to her own chakra.

LegionZero wrote: You have yet to invalidate it. You ASSUME that the chakra being referred is the culmination of all tailed beasts chakra but that isnt stated anywhere. You just keep saying it is. I proved it was. I proved Naruto(and Sasuke) still has rikudo chakra. So according to that logic he should be to enter rsm and produce TSOs, but he hasn’t. So that logic is flawed and simply wrong. Again juubi’ chakra is required to enter rsm. Hokage Naruto is without juubi chakra.

LegionZero wrote: Their state while being used is to levitate.

They do succumb to gravity. Ch. 668 p 15 the TSB Minato teleported are lying on the ground with his cloak.

This didnt happen. Madara had it as a staff and reverted it back to a ball after Guy detroyed his arm. It was always at his side and he sat still while he launched it at Guy.

It happened but I was mistaken about when it did. It wasn’t before he threw it at Guy, it was after. First page of chapter 673. I can admit that I was wrong about naruto’ two returning. Though that doesn’t change the fact madara’ thrown TSOs were caught by Minato, as you pointed out, and later disintegrated. Fast forward to hagoromo’ brief self revival and there are a new set of TSOs, which even he credits to the presence of juubi chakra inside madara’ severed torso. And again there’s kaguya who produced an ETSO. Conclusion they can and have replenished.

It’s not moot to mention Indra and ashura’ spirit. They were depicted there and they weren’t even aged.

LegionZero wrote: TSB are stated to come with SP Senjutsu and Hamura has them.

Even if we ignore the TSB, He also used 6 Paths Chibaku Tensei(a SP Senjutsu technique)with Hagoromo.

That is true, but just like madara wondered about Naruto and Sasuke, we do not know how hamura acquired his power. All rikudo senjutsu users interacts with either the juubi or the juubi’ chakra. We don’t know what hamura’ case is. Using hamura is moot.

LegionZero wrote: For starters, the translation you used makes no sense. He mentions the chakra of the ten tails and then immediately says its the chakra of the nine tails, Ashura, and Indra that allowed him to manifest.

Second, nowhere in that page did it say he made TSB's through Madara's lower half. Those are the same TSB he had in the afterlife. Madaras lower body alome didnt even have enough of Hagoromos chakra for him to manifest until Hashirama touched it.

3rd, Hagoromo being weakened has no effect on the TSB's because they are like tools, not fueled by chakra like a TBB or a Rasengan.

4th, when a character manifests, they have all their original powers and abilities. This is why Kaguya had all her Kekkei abilities even though Madara didnt have most of them. This is also evident by the fact that Hagoromo had his TSB in the afterlife even though he wasnt the Juubi's junchiriki when he died. When Obito came back from the afterlife, he only had his abilities, not ones he had while Juubito. 1. It does make since. He mentions madara and hashirama and the juubi’ chakra was all present in that torso, then he goes on to mention the bare minimum chakra that is required for him to perform the feat. Essentially, that torso exceeded the necessary chakra for hagoromo to return on his own. Why he needs kurama chakra is unknown, but still established. 2. That’s headcanon madara has the same body he gained hashirama’ sage mode from. That requires hashirama chakra. Also he gave away his power to Naruto and Sasuke. Also he can’t be juubi jinchuriki as a spirit. That title belonged to 2 then living Uchiha and(in a sense) to Naruto. 3. It does have an effect. The god tree was stealing chakra cloaks from the alliance. No chakra no cloak. Obito when he initially became a jinchuriki, didn’t properly tap into enough juubi chakra, and TSOs weren’t produced then either. 4. Obito wasn’t a jinchuriki before he died. What are you talking about? Minato didn’t die a perfect jinchuriki. And to competent debunk you I just have to point to the minimum requirements hagoromo needed to resurrect. You want me to believe that TSOs could be produced with rikudo chakra and kurama chakra. Yet you just got finish saying hamura had rikudo senjutsu. And we know all examples of TSOs users had juubi’ chakra. So until you can produce an example of a TSO user with only kurama chakra and rikudo chakra you are wrong.

LegionZero wrote: TSB's dont come from Rinnegan. No one ever said this. Why are you bringing this up. TSB are a result of 6 Paths Senjutsu. This is why Naruto and Hamura had some. Yet you just got finish saying hagoromo was brought back with his own power, including the TSOs. Since we know that at the very least hagoromo needed rikudo and kurama chakra to revive, you’re suggesting that even with those chakra he’d still have TSOs. That is wrong. You can’t say TSO require juubi chakra then imply it can be achieved without it. That’s a contradiction.

LegionZero wrote: Kaguya's power was never literally divided between her children. They recieved half of her strength and abilities. Oxymoron much? Kaguya lost much of her chakra to her twin sons, she never recovered that power.

LegionZero wrote: You are projecting the exact same way dude. You are providing statements that dont match what you are saying. You are choosing the definition that suits your view even though the rest of the passage directly contradicts it. Outside of naruto’ TSOs that returned to him, I’ve proven myself correct. Plus being wrong about that didn’t disprove my overall point.

Eye have no relevance because there’s nothing contextual to supporting. You’re interpreting an image. Whereas I’m pointing out actual acknowledgements of Naruto increased power, prior to and after he entered rsm.