User:Seelentau/RTS

''This project is on hiatus for an indefinite amount of time. If you're interested in a timeline of the events in Naruto, please visit the German version of this timeline.''

Kakashi's, Rin's and Obito's age
Alright folks, since there still seems to be disagreement regarding the age of those three, I'll explain it again, hopefully for the last time. All this information is based on the databooks and of course the manga, it also requires the ability to think logical. I won't take months and days into account, since we don't have enough of them. So only the years matter.

First of all, Kakashi's age:
 * Kakashi is 30 years old. The Book of Sha is dated to 16 years past Naruto's birth (pNB), meaning that Kakashi was born 14 years before Naruto's birth (bNB).
 * Kakashi became Genin at the age of 5, meaning 9 years bNB.
 * Kakashi became Chūnin at the age of 6, meaning 8 years bNB.

We take a break here and look at when the 3NWW took place:
 * According to the Book of Tō and chapter 239, it began over 10 years ago. The Book of Tō is dated to 13 years pNB, meaning that the 3NWW began at least 3 years pNB.
 * Minato fought in the 3NWW, meaning it actually began bNB. But I doubt anyone would say otherwise.
 * Itachi was traumatized by the 3NWW at the age of 4, meaning it happened 1 year bNB, since Itachi was born 5 years bNB.

So we have the war happening (and likely ending) 1 year before Naruto was born, with Kakashi being 13 years old. So far, so good. Now here's where most people make a mistake. They think Kakashi, Obito and Rin must be the same age, since they all graduated from the academy and became Chūnin at the same time.

To solve this, let's look at when Obito and Rin became Genin and Chūnin:
 * Obito became Genin at the age of 9 and Chūnin at the age of 11.
 * Rin became Genin at the age of 9 and Chūnin at the age of 11.

As you can see, both of them were 4 years older than Kakashi when they became Genin. But for them to be in the same Genin team after they graduated, they must've graduated at the same time. There's no example that would suggest it could be otherwise. Now, if Obito and Rin were four years older than Kakashi when they all graduated, it means that they were born four years earlier than Kakashi, amirite?

From this, we get the following:
 * Obito is 34 years old, meaning he was born 18 years bNB.
 * Rin would be 34 years old, meaning she was born 18 years bNB.

And now we conclude this:
 * Obito "died" when he was 13 years old, according to the Book of Tō.
 * When he was born 18 years bNB and died 13 years later, we get the date 5 years bNB for when the 3NWW happened, since Obito died in that war.
 * Kakashi, who became Jōnin at that time, was born 14 years bNB and 14-5 is 9, meaning he was 9 years old when he became Jōnin.

Now we solved Kakashi's Jōnin age, when the 3NWW happened and how old Obito actually is (and Rin would be if she hadn't died).

On a sidenote, Minato told Obito that Kakashi's father died "five years ago", meaning he died 10 years bNB (5+5=10). Kakashi wasn't even Genin at that time, he was only 4 years old.

Here is the problem with your timeline. Gai and Asuma became Chunin at 11 and 12. Genin do not wear flak jackets.. they were BOTH seen wearing the Flak Jackets when Rin showed her Kakashi Paper to them all, meaning they were at least 11 and 12 then.. Kakashi is the SAME age as Gai but only around 8 months younger. IN the chapter of Kakashi Gaiden it was said Kakashi had JUST become Jonin and Rin even talked about the fact she just talked to Obito and the rest about it. It means it happened soon after that page in chapter 599. Obito died at 13... Now it was stated that Itachi and Kakashi were prodigy's/genius's who graduated the academy in ONE year. Nobody else is known to have done that. Sasuke and Naruto joined the academy at 5 years old and graduated at 12 years old. Jonin sensei's can decide that certain students cannot take the Chunin exams if they feel they are not ready.. and only teams of 3 can take the exams. Gai held back his team one year because of it. Now that covers my timeline right there. Obito died at 13, soon after Kakashi became a Jonin at 11, where 11 year old chunin Gai and 12 year old chunin Asuma, 15 year old chunin Aoba and 12 year old Genin Kurenai are shown when Rin reveals her "secret plan" to give Kakashi gifts for his promotion. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:47, May 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I see. So you're basing your whole timeline on the fact that Guy's wearing a flak jacket? Seelentau 愛議 01:57, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Gai and Asuma are Chunin there hence the Flak Jackets. Kurenai is not wearing a flak jacket as she did not become Chunin until a year later when she was 13. That supports my timeline. That and EVERYTHING ELSE I POSTED.... come on man I thought you payed more attention and was more mature than Elveo? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:02, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I was asking a valid question and I need to ask another one: Are you aware that there's a war going on at that time? I quote the Book of Kai for you: "This war turned into an unprecedented war of attrition, tormenting all nations with a shortage of war potential. Not even excluding a great power like Konoha, very young children were thrown unto the battlefield, losing their short lives.". While I agree with you that Genin usually don't wear flak jackets, they're also usually not fighting in world wars. But as the quote says, even young children were thrown on the battlefield, explaining why even the Genin are wearing flak jackets: There's a war going on, they're forced to fight and they need to protect themselves. It doesn't matter if you're Genin or Chūnin, if you're thrown on the battlefield, you need a flak jacket to protect yourself. Seelentau 愛議 02:12, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

-___- If that was the case then Obito, Kakashi, and Rin would of been wearing their flak jackets at Kanabi Bridge... that was a nice try though. Genin DON'T have Flak Jackets. Chunin can choose NOT to wear theirs. Same with Jonin. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:16, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why are Chūnin allowed to choose, while Genin aren't? Can you proof that they aren't? Seelentau 愛議 02:23, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Because the vest is the sign of becoming a chunin, it is worn after that by choice. IN the 4th war all the Genin are kept at home while all the chunin and above are at war... with Flak Jackets on. Name ONE genin who has worn a flak jacket.. oh wait you can't and why is that? because those who pass the chunin exams are awarded flak jackets and the rank of chunin. In Shippuden all the chunins are not seen wearing their flaks til the war, Kurenai as a Jonin is not seen wearing hers except in flash backs and Kakashi didn't even wear his during the 3rd war. There is the proof. Obviously chunins and jonins don't have to wear their flaks unless it is war time and even then they really don't have to... and even in war time genin don't have flaks as shown with team minato ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naruto is a Genin and participates in the war. Besides that, even if you're right, are you aware that those stuff is based on chapter 599? Kishimoto made a few timeline mistakes in that chapter and only corrected one. I doubt he even thought of what you thought of, Guy wearing a flak jacket and all. Furthermore, while you're basing your timeline on what a soldier wears during times of war, I base my timeline on actual dates and calculations. I hope you understand why I can't take your opinion on this seriously and why I'm reverting your edits on Kakashi's article, asking for its protection. Seelentau 愛議 02:53, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Did you not read my other posts on this subject?? I used dates, ages, and manga evidence. YOUR "definitive" evidence is the genin and chunin grad age numbers for obito, rin, and kakashi... YOU clearly are very close minded and do not know how to use dates and numbers as well as me. My proof is better than yours, you just like Elveo are being biased and close minded and are mad that I am right. Kakashi was 11. Enough said. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Also, Naruto was a genin because he was gone for 2.5 years with Jiraiya and never took a second chunin exams, he wasn't supposed to participate in the war.. have you been reading this manga at all?? You have some very terrible arguments ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:08, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

And again.. I don't post opinions here I post facts. In my opinion Kishi just got everything wrong and Kakashi was 13 and so was Rin when he was a Jonin. But the facts based on everything I found make him 11. I seem to be the only unbiased person on this site. This is sad ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:19, May 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * You'll find others who are just as proficient and less biased as you. They also are able to conduct themselves in manners becoming. I've went through everything you, Elv, and Seel has listed. No one, from a glance, has made an error in their math. Should you wish to be taken seriously, refrain from extraneous comments and condescension of high degrees. I'd also, if you could, would like it if you could post your "findings" in a timeline form such as:


 * Date / Event / Source (the most important part)


 * As an example, you could say "2000/ Kyuubi attacks; Obito age 13/ Manga #". And if it's databook information itself, please provide a link. If it's on this site, provide the page. Given the nature of the anime, I'd refrain from listing it, as any relevant information should be found in the manga long before it airs via anime, along with potentially corrupting things. Ignore the movies in their entirety. This will make it easier for others to search through your information and understand it more clearly, whether correct or incorrect. Do not worry about trying to do any elaborate math; just put the years and events, along with the source and it will be revealed by itself. --98.101.165.89 (talk) 03:45, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

The only argument you're using is - besides the childish insults that will get you banned sooner or later - that Guy is wearing a flak jacket. I explained why it's normal that he's wearing one. You didn't even try to disprove my timeline, instead all you do is whining about how everyone is biased while using caps far too often. If you want others to take you seriously, I strongly suggest you stop this kind of behaviour. Seelentau 愛議 03:58, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Please sign in when you comment.

That is not my only argument. Check again, and yes you are right I will work on a timeline right now. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:10, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Anonymous, I like your idea and I will concoct a timeline with that exact format. Thank you. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:24, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I did the math and made a timeline and Rin is the only one who is 2 Months too young to graduate at the same time as obito and/or Kakashi, but I did the math all the way until Naruto's Graduation and Hinata is also too young to have Graduated at 12 with the rest of her friends so I think Kishi just likes to round up ages when they are within 2-3 months of a year. But with all said and done, my math and timeline fits all the way. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:20, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I just spent hours creating a timeline I did not even remember to save and right when I pasted it here the computer died. I am frustrated beyond belief and I decided I am not going to post another timeline for awhile. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:04, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I am cooled down now and I have come to this conclusion, if we completely disclude chapter 599, then Obito and Rin are 4 years older than Kakashi, if we include chapter 599 then they are 2 years older than Kakashi. It all comes down to Databook 4 to solve this issue. Right now as long as it isn't addressed by databook 4 then we are both wrong and right at the same time. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, also completely irrelevant, but @Itachi, Kabuto also graduated the Academy in a single year, he never was called a prodigy/genius as far as I remember (though he certainly is) :-I and yes, Seel's reasons are the same as mine, movie and flack jackets and other **** aren't enough evidence, the ultimate evidence are dates and scenes. For what we know, all parties are wrong and he wasn't even 9 back then. But based on CURRENT up to date information that is subject to change, he was. It's clear that Kishimoto did mistake or a retcon because Kakashi's graduation number shows him leaving the Academy years before Rin and Obito, but that makes it even more complicated and can't be solved, unless the chapter 599 already solved it by making the 3 of them peers rather than possibly what the original idea might have been, that they were of the same age but Kakashi simply matured earlier.--Elveonora (talk) 11:41, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I stated at the beginning of my text that I won't take months into account, since we don't know what month they graduated or what month the war began and all that. And of course I didn't look at chapter 599 when I made my calculations, because it's not relevant at all and also it's full of mistakes. I explained why it's normal for a Genin to wear a flack jacket at times of war, too. Regarding the gap in their Ninja IDs, since we don't know exactly how they work, I ignored that, too. From that I conclude that Kakashi was 9 years old (and 4 years old when Sakumo died). Why is it even a problem for people to be wrong about that? There was no need for all this, I think. Hopefully, this settles it (at least until we have Databook 4, as you said). Seelentau 愛議 13:34, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

I'm Axel_Carrozzo. Itachiwasahero, I correct your previous mistake. You said that Kakashi became junin at 11 and Obito died that same year with 13. Obito was as tall as Minato when they fought (Obito 175,0 and Minato 179,2) The young Obito was 154,2 when he died. A person cannot grew up 20,8 cm in two years. This is a common mistake many people have commited. That Kakashi and Obito were 13 at Kakashi Gaiden and Kurama's attack happened one year later (Having in mind that Kakashi was 14 back then). Obito couldn't have goten that tall in a single year. Remember he had his deeper voice (Current adult voice) during the incident. From what I say that a person can't also have his/her voice mature in one year. The timeframe Seelentau established is actually acceptable for growth changes (Kakashi 9 and ObIto 13 at Kakashi Gaiden) (Kakashi 14 and Obito 18). In those five years apart, It's logic that Obito grow up that much. I'm having problems to sign. That's why I post my talk page User_talk:RIKUDO_SENNIN_47 --RIKUDO SENNIN 47 (talk) 15:11, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

@Rikudo 47: +rep lol--Elveonora (talk) 15:25, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

How many mistakes were fixed in the tankobon? Because I know the 4ths face was removed from the monument and that was it and it was the only thing he apologised for... so the Flak Jacket Argument is still there. Now on to the voice and height argument.... ITACHI UCHIHA disproves all of your argument. He was shown to be at 164-165cm(manga) and 170-171cm(anime) at 13 in comparison with Fugaku and Mikoto, and he sounded the exact same as when he is an adult... Let's not forget Naruto in 3 years grew 18.5cm. from 147.5cm to 166cm. outside of your grad age numbers your arguments are back to square one, the grad age numbers do cement him as 9 when he became a jonin if we go only by those numbers with no delving deeper... but just like with Zabuza being actually 19 instead of 26 you should already know there are a few mistakes in every databook. Excluding the people who were not supposed to be there and the 4th hokage monument mistakes.. chapter 599 is all good to go and it makes Kakashi 11 years old, not 9. Like I said, You are not right and I am not wrong, but vice versa is also true. It is up to databook 4 to decided which way it goes. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:40, July 11, 2013 (UTC)