Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-34656247-20180528093116/@comment-34656247-20180529064320

Nashikeine wrote: Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Conditions are: '''*Obito doesn't have Hashirama's dna (so limited use of kamui) '''*The obito that fought Minato. the OP is contradicting himself here.

Obito without Hashirama cells, yet the one who fought Minato. both dont exist. most of the feats are because his Sharingan and MS are boosted from hashirama cells. Danzo showed how Hashirama cells boosted his use of Shisui's Sharingan, same way it is for Obtio and it is agreed by all.

in that sense Obito can not only be limited to the use of Kamui, but his Kamui speed will also drastically reduce. you can be sure of the latter part because when Kakashi was buffed by Kurama's chakra, not only could he use Kamui more and on bigger objects, but he could also do it real fast.

also non-eye contact genjutsu is normal genjutsu. By saying that i was referring to his age range, the one that fought Minato minus wood release..guess i really put it in a wrong way ;_; saying 14 yr old obito would've been better... Non-eye contact genjutsu is normal? ik about the normal non sharingan one, but what abou the one Itachi uses, requiring finger and stuff..and genjutsu mirage crows ?_?

Nashikeine wrote: the healthiest we know of Itachi is him from part 1. in that he only used 1 of Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu and yet it was clearly noted that using them put a toll on his body that he himself states that he needs to rest his body for a while (chapter 148). in that sense his limit is probably no more that 3-4 MS jutsu at best. (and dont say he spammed more in his fight against Sasuke, because at that time he simply didnt care about his health any longer. he was there to die anyway.). It was two tsukuyomi, one on sasuke and one on Kakashi, plus a single use of amaterasu. Also though he was dying he had to stay alive to complete his plan so he wasnt really throwing away techniques, he had to stay alive to seal oro. If he was indeed throwing away techniques wildly then he would've died before he would've died ;_;. So sick Half blind Itachi, used tsukuyomi (the power level is unclear), susanoo, spammed amaterasu, clone, fire release, 2 genjutsu (i think), shuriken jutsu (for about 20 sec?). Now those will have to multiply greatly since this itachi has a fresh Mangekyou plus healthy chakra.

Nashikeine wrote: Obito will be a lot weaker. his Kamui slower, but definitely better than Kakashi. other than that he really doesnt have any other really powerful offence. Also obito without H.cell's KAMUi drawbacks is unclear, like itachi feeling backlash from every usage of amaterasu.

Nashikeine wrote: Sasuke cannot spam his MS jutsu either. Sasuke also has his limit. the guy was healed and replenished of his chakra by people like Jugo, Zetsu and later Karin throughout the Kage Summit attack. around Kage Summit he had only gotten basic hand of FLame Control and could only use skeletal Susanoo to at most form a sword. Sasuke used stage 2 susanoo as well, remember he shot an arrow at danzo...this arrow will be useful against almost everyone in team Minato, except for Minato. Kakashi is definitely faster than hiruzen and Jiraiya yet he had to resort to kamui to evade that arrow and not his physical speed.

Nashikeine wrote: Hiruzen will be the wildest trump card. not only he knows hundreds and thousands of jutsu and can combine them efficiently. above all he is the most analytical. he can grasp what a jutsu is capable of by seeing it only once and can drop major holes in his opponents jutsu. These guys are basically the kings of analysis mostly Madara and Itachi, with them having the sharingan makes it worse. Also we'll stick to what Hiruzen at that age was shown to use xD

Nashikeine wrote: Minato is the overall MVP here. with his FTG he can run rounds around all his opponents. even Madara who did dodge FTG before cannot do it this time because he is not enhanced by hashirama cells, rinnegan and SM from Hashirama. the fact that Izuna could not counter Tobirama with his MS means Madara cannot do it either, especially to a better version of Tobirama. Above all Minato can mark the other four with FTG marks and can get them out of danger, especially if they get caught in Kamui. AGREE on the Minato part greatly. But he's definitely not gonna solo this team, I think Izuna just lacked reaction time that lead to his death, killer bee was able to counter Minato after he used FTG to appear behind of BEE and no kunai was there only the FTG seal which bee didnt know of. So these aren't fodder Iwa nin, Yondaime .-.

Nashikeine wrote: Jiraiya will be te wild trump card. he has a variety of jutsu and at this stage only likes of Madara and Itachi can truly match him. but with unending SM with the toad duo (yes, i know Minato has a perfect SM, but it only lasts for seconds so no use there) he will have the firepower to even break through Susanoo. and just for the count, Jiraiya will be able to get into SM because no one knows about his SM abilities and he has three people defending his ass, while he can also summon a toad as extra help.

For him to enter sage mode his hands must be placed together and his actual movement will be greatly reduced, so the uchihas would definitely suspect that he is up to something...wont they? Sasuke's susanoo arrow is a perfect counter for this.