Talk:Gengetsu Hōzuki

Postmortem instead of "Impure World Resurrection"
Should we put "Postmortem" where Akatsuki is instead of "Impure World Resurrecton?" --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 12:23, January 28, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi


 * I think we shouldn't list it at all. See Talk:Akatsuki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:10, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I shall remove Akatsuki from their affiliation. But I'll need help doing that.--KiumaruHamachi (talk) 16:20, January 28, 2011 (UTC) KiumaruHamachi

Personality
Shouldn't a small section about his personality be added? Peruzka (talk) 01:58, January 30, 2011 (UTC) Peruzka
 * and what exactly would we put there? We haven't seen enough of him or his 'personality' to add a section. --Cerez365 (talk) 02:26, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know if this constitutes as enough evidence to warrant an inclusion within such a section but he does appear to become easily angered, at least in regards to the circumstances surrounding his death and rivalry with Mū, evidently demonstrated by the dipication of a bulging vein upon his forehead when the matter seemingly comes under dispute. It's also unusual that he appears more concerned over the fact that him killing Mū comes into question, rather than his own actual death (chapter 525, page 3). Blackstar1 (talk) 02:35, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

One thing I began to notice was that Captain Awesome really seems to enjoy the thrill of battle despite wanting to be beaten, much more than most. I'm not sure how much you can read into the "Tyrant of Pure Battle-Lust" closer but it's something I've picked up on as the chapters go. I'm curious if anyone else has thought about this and how you would fit this into his personality? Arrancar79 (talk) 22:27, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * That "tyrant" thing is a very bad translation on one of his techniques, not his personality. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:04, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry I think I was unclear. I mean to say this is something I've noticed over the last few chapters in spite of the closing line. It's a personality trait I'm picking up on, just curious if anyone else agrees. Arrancar79 (talk) 21:44, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Quotes
I think someone should add the "Well well...my most bitter enemy delivered right to me..." quote. My Japanese is bad at best so I dont know the literal translation, thats just mangastream. But I think from what we've seen of the Second it sums him up pretty well; The second generation of Kage were in a war filled era and it would appear he spent most of his life/reign as mizukage in battle with Mu and died in battle with him. Then Mu and whether he killed him were his first concerns after being ressurected.

10TailedDemonChild (talk) 11:39, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * The quote is actually a bit different in Japanese: —ShounenSuki (talk 12:03, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Definately differs a bit in Japanese, but I still think its worth adding if someones up for it.

10TailedDemonChild (talk) 19:06, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Second Mizukage
Why didn't Kabuto Ressurect the Third Mizukage?? :/
 * He might not have found enough DNA, the third might have been revived but not seen yet, or his/her soul maybe never reached the pure world. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 09:19, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

He probably did and just hasnt revealed him yet or for all we know the Third isnt dead just retired--Muguruma69 (talk) 01:52, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * She/he must be really old than.--KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:59, July 13, 2011 (UTC) KiumaruHamachi

"Two-Year time skip"
Should we add in trivia that he semi broke the fourth wall? Saying "this wasn't just a two-year time skip" was more than likely a reference to the time between the original Naruto and Shippuden. Fangzntalonz (talk) 15:17, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why do you think so? Seelentau 愛議 15:59, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Where does he say that, any way? —ShounenSuki (talk 18:17, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * He says before the Fourth Kazekage and Gaara fight. I can't find it though.--KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:21, July 13, 2011 (UTC) KiumaruHamachi
 * If it's on the last page of chapter 546, then he merely says he feels like he went through a time slip. —ShounenSuki (talk 18:57, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

he was saying that he was resurrected a long time after he died because apparently Ōnoki was young when he knew him.

Yin Release and Genjutsu users.
Mizukage said he was a Yin release user and therefore a Genjutsu user. Does that mean we add Yin Release to all other ninja articles with ninja shown to use Genjutsu in some form? http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73913037/18 Umishiru (talk) 16:49, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well in between all the theoretical explanations and now the 2 Mizukage's confirmation, maybe we could start listing genjutsu users as yin release users...Itachi and Sasuke for one are extensive genjutsu users. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:30, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well that's fine, if it gets reverted, oh well.Umishiru (talk) 17:41, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Uhm, if you could wait until something is done and not bring this discussion up on every article you feel a mind to that'd be awesome please and thanks ^___^--Cerez365™ 17:50, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should wait for a proper explanation before we label all genjutsu users as having yin release.--Deva 27 17:54, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I only brought this discussion to one artcle and redirect another to this one to keep us from having to lines of chat for one topic. And thats fine.Umishiru (talk) 17:57, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Plus what more explanation do you want. Why yould teh Mizukage say hes a Yin release user and therefore Genjutsu if that wasn't the case. Yamato said Yin and Yang were involed in non-elemental jutsu like genjutsu and the 2nd just pretty much said that Yin deals with genjutsu.Umishiru (talk) 18:00, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Bump.Umishiru (talk) 18:05, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * we all read the chapter friend, we know what's there. In large-scale cases like these we like to wait for more of a regular quorum and verification of facts before acting. The information is not going anywhere so please calm down.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:07, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Huh? I didn't flame you or anything or posted any emotion, so it feels weird to tell me to calm down when I am calm.Umishiru (talk) 18:09, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Look i agree that Yin Release and genjutsu users are the same, but since there are sometimes problems with some translations let's wait a bit more discuss the imformation at hand. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:13, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes I really wish to travel to Japan, meet with Masashi Kishimoto and ask him few things so you can have your "proper explanation". If Kishimoto cant satisfy you, than nothing.VolteMetalic (talk) 18:26, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe you people need to learn prudence and patience. There isn't a raw yet, I believe, so this whole thing could easily still be a mistranslation. Even if it isn't, we shouldn't jump the gun and call all genjutsu Yin Release. What about Lightning Illusion Flash of Lightning Pillar? It's Lightning Release, but also genjutsu. Is it both Lightning and Yin Release? Is it a special case? Could it be possible to use other elements to get genjutsu effects?
 * There are plenty of uncertainties and issues to be worked out before doing something as drastic as calling all genjutsu Yin Release and all genjutsu users Yin Release users. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:14, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * And you should learn resolution. You have two, or three, mentions that Yin Release is about illusions and your imagination. Yamato said that Yin and Yang are non-elemental jutsu, so to your example of C's genjutsu, it is Lightning. Because genjutsu can be of any type, probably also Yang when you have a good explanation. In this way, any non-elmental genjutsu is Yin, or any other. Depends on if the genjutsu is of spiritual or physical nature.VolteMetalic (talk) 19:49, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * We have at least one genjutsu which isn't simple Yin Release, Izanagi. Your last two sentences alone should suffice as a reason not to go listing every other genjutsu as Yin Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:54, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well Izanagi is a Yin-Yang we know but it's not the best example since genjutsu itself is use to confuse and paralyze the foe, while Izanagi works as a reverse genjutsu that manipulates the actual physical world. Genjutsu in itself manipulates the oponnent's mind. Yin Release is refered as spirtual energy and as a way to give form to the imagination...so it kinda fits...plus i've read the translation of what the Second said and with the previous mentions it does kinda confirm it. Plus C's specific genjutsu may be a combination technique of some kind...since that tech works in 2 steps, first the blinding light (Which may be the actual Lightning Release) and the secondary part which in this case was Jugo seeing Sasuke being smashed by the Raikage (the actual genjutsu maybe). So in terms of basic genjutsu it may acutally be Yin Release. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:21, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * You could very well be right, but the point is that we have no way of knowing for sure. All we know is that the Second Mizukage basically said that all Inton techniques are genjutsu, but that we also have examples of Onmyōton and Raiton genjutsu. In other words, all Inton techniques may be genjutsu, but it seems not all genjutsu are Inton. Thus it is too early to start saying all genjutsu techniques are Inton and all genjutsu users are Inton users. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:33, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then since we can't get Kishimoto-sensei on the line ;P to clear it up we'll have to wait for the next chapter for some hope of clarification Darksusanoo (talk) 22:40, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * While we have decided to wait for the next chap I would like to point out that we classified Deidara clay jutsu as collaborative Earth and Explosion release with the clay being earth release and the explosions supplied by well Explosion release. This came probably be said of C's genjutsu, its probably collaborative Yin and Lightning release, the lighting coming from lightning and the enter the targets mind or whatever coming from Yin, as for Izanagi, remember part of its make up is Yin release through the Yin-Yang release. I think that all genjutsu has Yin in some form or fashion but may employ other elements for different effects.Lets just wait like said for the next chapter and hope the 2nd Mizukage goes into a lecture behind genjutsu and its connection to yin. He is after quite talkative when he wants to be, that or a charismatic man.Umishiru (talk) 04:01, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should add the second mizukage into the list of yin release users. It has already been confirmed by the second mizukage that he possessed this nature transformation. I've also been thinking about the technique he used to make the sand around gaara's seal crumble. It appears as if it's crumbling due to a liquid being mixed with the sand. I guess we still need more proof to see if he maybe possesses water release but it's just a speculation. Otokage (talk) 10:14, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Otokage

The fact Yin Release in his infobox already adds him to Yin Release users in the filters, the fact he doesn't show up is due to MediaWiki bugs that don't depend on us to be fixed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:46, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe he specialises in yin release genjutsu. It's also said in the yin release article that yin release can create form from nothing and yang only breathes life into it. Maybe the mirage genjutsu could simply be creating a new form from nothing, like the izanagi. The only difference would be that the izanagi is cast on the user and the mirage is cast on others.

"According to Yamato, the manipulation of Yin and Yang is the source of non-elemental techniques such as the Shadow Imitation Technique, Multi-Size Technique, medical ninjutsu, genjutsu, etc." Kishimoto is not stupid he knows his fans are getting confused about the yin-yang stuff ever sinced he introduced advance techniques like Izanagi. Usage of yin release is completely common in people who use genjutsu and since everyone can learn a genjutsu just take it off 2nd mizukage's page and only leave it on the genjutsu page. Dddttt (talk) 00:37, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Given he has a petrification technique...
Shouldn't he have Earth Release as well?--NaruHina fan (talk) 03:08, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't what that is so we shouldn't speculate, some earlier thought it could be water. When he explained his fighting style he didn't say anything about having water or earth, so I believe we should wait for clarification. What is mentioned in his abilities section is enough for now.--Deva 27 03:17, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Should we add a page for it, and name it "Second Mizukage's Jutsu" for now?Timeel39 (talk) 03:55, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think waiting is best. The note in his article should also suffice.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 04:00, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * uhhh this is my first time reading the discussion page for the 2nd mizukage and are you guys serious!?! I think you guys are making this more complicated than need be. He's a Mizukage I'm pretty sure he's skilled in water style ninjutsu, and the last page of the new chapter confirms this. NOw do you guys remember that last filler of Naruto? when Gaara's sand got wet, naturally, it got heavier and Gaara had a hard time controlling it and blah blah blah... This is pretty much waht's happening here is it not? he added some water to the sand and the wet sand crumbled off... I dont see where this petrification thing or this OMFG THE MIZUKAGE HAS SOME UBER COOL ABILITY!!!.... didnt ShonenSuki say something about the SFX having to do with water being added (can't clearly recall.) umm pretty much all i needed to rant about lol.. cheahh 76.197.230.120 (talk) 05:01, September 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Your rationale is flawed. From what we know, only one Hokage was able to use fire release, so saying the Mizukage has to use water release is not going to hold up. Also, fillers don't really count as anything canon. The way the article is not should suffice until Captain Awesome gets featured in the chapters.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:44, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

i'm not agreeing with the rude guy up there but on the side of the last page of the previous chapter it said water vs. sand gaara vs. the mizukage. now i know just because he's a mizukage doesnt mean he uses water element but that note and the jiwa sound effect seem a little suspicious. if it meant their villages that would be wrong cause it would have said mist vs. sand or water vs. wind. and i know y'all will probably say he didnt mention it when him and the raikage told their abilities but the raikage didnt mention his black lightning or his four finger nukite thing. and its even been stated that someone from form the water country is more likely to have water nature instead of someone from the fire country who's more inclined to have fire nature.71.71.62.169 (talk) 11:51, September 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * What rude guy? <_<:D>_> I initially was adamant that it was water that he was using and to be honest it probably is. But without direct proof (ie we see him using it) we have to represent the information as is.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:24, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

i meant user:76. 197. 230. 120 was rude not you cerez.71.71.62.169 (talk) 12:48, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Mirage Technique Question
I don't know if it was just the scanlantion I was reading, but I was unable to tell if it was implied that the Clam was making the Mizukage himself a mirage or if it was simply a mirage of him. Does anyone know? Skitts (talk) 21:45, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was wondering about this as well somewhat. The best we can do is wait for a translation from the raw.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:46, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

water release?
in this link http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/31829130/17 it says on the left side

"A top tier clash of water and sand... Gaara vs the Second Mizukage!

does that mean, the second mizukage uses water release?
 * It could just be a pun for where they come from. It might be revealed in the upcoming chapters since it looks like he's going to be featured.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:53, September 18, 2011 (UTC)

well, you can see gaara's sand dripping.. It also says that Gaara's sand is useless.. which means, it is indeed water that makes it useless since water makes sand loose..

Those end-of-chapter lines are often misleading. There have been many chapters where they say something like "what will character X do?", and character X doesn't show up in at least three chapters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:32, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

As always we should wait until proved with adding stuff, especially since this is the only lead we have, and he did not state so himself when telling the shinobis about his powers. In regards to the pun, i think that would be wierd, seeing as it would then logicaly be either "water and wind" or "Mist and sand". But then again, stranger things have been stated --Cosmikaze (talk) 11:43, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

The most credible thing suggesting the Second Mizukage uses Water Release so far is how he removed the binding tag when Gaara tried to seal him, when the sand darkened and crumbled. The sound effect is about liquid welling up. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the Second Mizukage is a Hōzuki clan member, capable of using the Hidrification Technique, having turned part of his body into water to weaken the sand portion with the binding tag. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:41, September 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Omni =/ Captain Awesome cannot be a Hōzuki T_T Well it would make sense >.>--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:14, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Looks like him being Hozoki is true lol ... Omnibender, I mean Mr. Oracle xD I would not be surprised if Hozoki's power is Kekkei Tota--89.173.25.116 (talk) 23:49, September 21, 2011 (UTC) if thats so then why is dust the only mention kekei tota they would have mention his.

the hydrification technique has only been stated to be a hidden jutsu. and as we all probably or should know a hiden jutsu is a technique which is only taught to members of a certain clan, in this case the hozuki clan. a hidden jutsu is capable of being taught to others just like any other techniques however its secrets are kept to the members of a clan. and kekkei tota have yet to be explained in full. oh and on a side note omnibender you really are something, you geussed it right on the spot that was awsome. and fore all other people who want to add to this page please read the page and the chapters before commenting on things that are irelevent and simple minded. do your research before speaking please it will make things go way smoother.98.26.245.197 (talk) 03:12, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sure ... I know its hidden technique ... Wood release was the case too and later turned out to be bloodline limit--Elveonora (talk) 18:45, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Databooks only divulge information that is known up until the point in the series. Explosion Release and Magnet Release were introduced in the beginning of Part II, but were only revealed as actual natures during this arc. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:40, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Genjutsu
I know he claimed himself Yin Release and genjutsu user but for now we saw only his clam using illusion and not himself. Is he really Yin Release user?--LeafShinobi (talk) 19:19, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * He says he is, so I don't think we should make assumptions. This Steaming Danger Tyranny technique may be Yin release as some ninja thought it was genjutsu. Maybe his techniques are only similar to genjutsu.--Deva 27 19:24, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Steaming Danger Tyranny Technique?? when does he use that and where do you read your chapters? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:36, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's the name of the technique that he uses at the end of the chapter. It's ShounenSuki's translation.--Deva 27 06:49, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

If it's ShounenSuki's Translation then it is absolutely correct. It's pretty cool a Hozuki Clan Member was a Kage. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:58, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Hozuki Clan.
He is for the most part confirmed to be a Hozuki Clan Member "So! Hurry up and run!! This is the Hozuki Clan's Water Gun Technique!!" Given his abilities, the fact's he comes from the Mist, his water secretion technique that is similar to oily water and his Hozuki Clan Water Gun technique, he is most likely from the Hozuki Clan. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:34, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless I have bad timing and you added this comment when there was no information about his clan in the article, why are you pointing that out? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:40, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

His nick name
"The Tyrant of Pure Battle-Lust" ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:39, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not his nickname, its just the ending captions for the chapter. Those never seem to be important.--Deva 27 06:47, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah you're right. I need to remember to not take the titles and captions seriously. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:59, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

He called himself "Mr. No-Eyebrows" which I think would count as a moniker O.o--Cerez365™ 12:39, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

I think he was speaking to Onoki in a familiar sense, as if Onoki used to call him "Mr. No-Eyebrows" when he was alive or something. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:36, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Hydrification technique?
Why's Hydrification technique listed there? Hydrification is a technique in which one turns themselves to water or other liquid. Mizukage *doesn't* turn himself into liquid, he produces a liquid which destroys sand. ZeroSD (talk) 16:34, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * He's a Hōzuki, the databook I believe said the members of the clan possess the ability to liquefy their bodies. That's exactly what Capt'n Awesome is doing. It's no different from what Mangetsu has been seen doing on even what Suigetsu does at times. It seems like you're using Suigetsu as a benchmark when no one ever said that the technique has to follow a set methodology.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:39, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm pointing out 2nd Mizukage's not liquifying his body at all. He's creating liquid, but remaining solid. He's not flowing out of restraints or changing body shape like both brothers do, he's secreting liquid. Also, just because a clan possesses a technique doesn't mean all members have it or that it was even invented when Mizukage was around. They may have the same base technique, but his jutsu doesn't have the same properties of the hydrification jutsu that Suigetsu and Mangetsu use, and you'd think being squeezed by sand would show whether someone can turn into water pretty well.ZeroSD (talk) 17:03, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

the hydrification technique also allows the user to turn partially into water also and the sand was srounding him so its unknown if he was turning mostly into water and we just couldnt see it. also since he's obviously of the hozuki clan and uses water element its almost completeley safe to say he's using the hydrification technique.98.26.246.162 (talk) 17:06, September 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * "Almost completely," but for one important fact- he still hasn't demonstrated it. What he has done is different. When escaping, he destroys the sand, even though hydrification would allow him to slip out even easier, and so on. He makes liquid, which is similar, possibly related, but since when do we put one jutsu on someone's list because they've demonstrated a different one? We can wait until someone shows a jutsu before adding it. ZeroSD (talk) 17:22, September 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand your point, but most of his body is covered up. The fact he was able to shot water from his finger seems suggestive to the point of confirmation for me, since no other Water Release user, other than those of this clan have been shown using water in a way that didn't involve spitting it out or manipulating already present water. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:40, September 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Cloths transform too, so that big collar of his would show if he went melty, and when others use the hydrification technique on a lot of their body they look liquid all over. So we'd be able to see if it was that even with as much covering as he has.
 * He's clearly able to make liquid from his body, we see him do that against sand multiple times, but "Can make liquid" is not "can turn into liquid," and it would be visually apparent if the latter had been done. Think of, say, the Aburame. They have some people use large visible bugs, and other people use nanobugs. The people who use one don't use the other, while both being signature clan-only techniques. Unless we're told that all clan members have hydrification, it's just assumption that he has it and not simply a related one when he's only shown a visual and functionally distinct technique.ZeroSD (talk) 04:06, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Anon, I don't recall Suigetsu or Mangetsu ever turning their clothes into water. Care to say a chapter? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:55, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

does his clothes turn to water everytime karin hits him when he fought he merged with water bee knocked him out in he turned into a jelly substance then went back to normal with clothes if everytime he turned to water in his clothes did not he would be naked (74.141.196.236 (talk) 19:57, September 23, 2011 (UTC))
 * Every time Karin has hit him, we only see him turning to water, not his clothes, it just splashes around. Before Suigetsu was defeated by B, you can clearly see he's not wearing any clothes, despite his upper body being solid. He gets naked every time he fully turns into liquid, when Karin hits him, just part of him turns to water, so he simply reforms still in his clothes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:17, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

yeah what about the time he fought killer bee in turn to water in blocked tail beast wheres his clothes wheres his clothes when he got knocked in became a jelly form
 * Nothing in that scene indicates his clothes also turned to water. There one time I remember his clothes turning into water is in the filler portion of the anime episode he was introduced in, and since that's filler, it isn't canon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:37, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

yeah it does turn his clothes to water remember when taka faught the eight tails jinchuriki and bee punched suigetsu and it went right through suigetsus shirt.71.71.62.16 (talk) 16:25, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nien! When B punched Suigetsu (chapter 412 page 13) it didn't go through him. His cloak is open and you see water rushing outwards to cover B's hand. If you look at Suigetsu from behind ([page 14) B's hand is nowhere to be seen.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:31, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * In the panel where Suigetsu speaks, it kinda looks like it goes through the front of Suigetsu's shirt though, the cloak is open, and it seems like the hand goes through the shirt underneath. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:44, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, now I'm unsure whether or not cloths transform, I do remember it in the anime. But more to the point: No part of him was ever shown transforming ever, and not all clan jutsu are universal to members. Unless someone can actually point me to him using the jutsu, I'm going to delete the reference, it's not the policy of this wiki to put in jutsus on "probably" and "maybe". ZeroSD (talk) 22:15, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The water gun uses water that is made from his finger. You can see the droplet of water, but part of the tip of his finger is still water-like. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:57, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The finger thing alone is enough to list him as a user as, I remember Omni saying this already but- they're the only ones we've seen use water in that way. Others normally spew it out of their mouths or manipulate an existing source.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:01, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if that's not how he creates the oily substance, he can still make regular water with it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:03, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

Ok this is getting out of hand...so far all Water Release techniques that i can remember were fired either by the user's mouth or using a pre-existing water body...the Hydrification technique is the only one that produces water from the user's actual body...let's see his Water Gun uses water from the body, he was shown producing water from his body, he's a member of the Hozuki clan and that technique is the base one for producing and transforming one's body into water, that doesn't mean that there can't be different uses or that the water density can't be different...chakra water was stated to be denser than the usual...maybe his is even denser which may give that "oil" felling...overall the evidence points to the fact that is a Hydrification user...it seems kinda farfetched that there's a different technique for the same use...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:04, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's far-fetched, but I do think that it's more likely to be a variation of a technique we already know than a whole new technique, given what we know about the technique. The only other technique related to oil we know of is Jiraiya's Toad Oil Bullet, which has no ties to this at all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:08, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It does make more sense to me that he is using Hydrification, going from prior cases like Torune and the Aburame. The next thing is, who is to say that what Mangetsu, for example is doing/using wouldn't be regarded as a different type of water as well?And not all clan techniques are universal to every member but hiden ones tend to be. Hence why they go through all the trouble of safeguarding to to hand it down in their family members only.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:15, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * At best it could be said is that the Mizukage's version is slightly different for several reasons. (due to his chakra it could make the water thicker and since he is an older member of clan he could have enough mastery to use it partially). There is no reason to assume that he can't use it especially since it's the only known technique that can allow the user to produce water from the body. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:29, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll note that making water from the body is obviously a lesser ability than full transformation, and Hydrification is specifically the full transformation into liquid, which he very notably has not shown. Consider Konan, and how young Konan can make paper, while only older Konan can transform into it, for a similar situation.
 * And simply put, no matter if you think it's likely, we should wait for confirmation, which we simply do not have yet. 2nd Mizukage has neither been shown to turn into water or been stated to have it. We may get confirmation next chapter for all I know, but 'majority rules' and 'I think it's probably...' aren't how we do things.ZeroSD (talk) 13:01, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * We've seen Suigetsu partially becoming water as well, both when hit (Karin, Raikage) or on purpose (when roughing up that Kumo shinobi for info on Killer B). Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:55, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Aaaand latest chapter, one of the ninja specifically refers to Mizukage's main body as solid. I believe that settles that. ZeroSD (talk) 13:13, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * "...not like the Mirage genjutsu." I think your argument died here today.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:25, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * And he calls it *Solid* (and dodges thrown shuriken)! It wouldn't be solid sans genjutsu if it's hydrification. We've got outright confirmation here his real body is solid now. ZeroSD (talk) 13:32, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Who says the Mizukage wouldn't be solid if he had the Hydrification Technique? What basis do you have for that claim?
 * The way I see it, the following arguments exists for him having Hydrification:
 * When he uses the Water Gun Technique, he seems to be turning the tip of his finger into water.
 * We've seen him use water several times while being completely immobilised and at places you wouldn't expect the water to be, suggesting he can turn parts of his body into water without needing to move, as with the Hydrification Technique.
 * His Steaming Danger Tyranny clone seems to be using Hydrification and clones generally share the abilities of their users.
 * He's a Hōzuki and a powerful one at that.
 * The oily water is drawn similarly to Mangetsu and Suigetsu while hydrificated.
 * The arguments against him having the Hydrification Technique are:
 * We don't actually see him turn into water very clearly.
 * It's a compelling argument, but I personally lean towards him having the technique. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:46, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Who says the Mizukage wouldn't be solid if he had the Hydrification Technique? What basis do you have for that claim?" -Hydrification technique is the ability to become liquid. That's exactly what the technique is. Producing water isn't it (and producing water explains 1, 2, 4, and 5 on your list without it). The clone being able to do something similar isn't a reason either, as clones can often do what the user cannot, like Deidara's that can turn into clay, so none of the 'pros' actually require Hydrification. Also, it's not just that he's never transformed, but he also does stuff like dodge shuriken and otherwise treat physical attacks as a threat that they aren't to Suigetsu. He doesn't use it to escape physical confinement which the technique would easily allow escape from (the need for a sealed container being a specifically noted power of the Hydrification technique). And I understand you lean towards it... but since when do we give people techniques without confirmation? Especially when we have someone saying he is solid. Unless a databook or manga page, we need to have the article reflect accordingly regardless of personal feelings on probablies. Right now, the manga's flat-out said he's got a solid body, and we should just note his techniques similarity to Hydration in their page. ZeroSD (talk) 18:30, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Deidara's clone doesn't turn into clan, it's made of clay. And what the manga said about him being solid was as not being a mirage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * And likewise, 2nd Mizukage's clone doesn't need a turn-into-water jutsu, it's made of liquids. Also, may I point to you up-page in the discussion of Yin Release and Genjutsu? We have more proof of genjutsu being yin release than Mizukage being able to turn into water, he's repeatedly acted solid when being water would help out. ZeroSD (talk) 23:34, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

It has come to my attention that this debate may be occurring because people are conflating two *separate* abilities. Look at the description of Hydrification, if you will. "By liquefying the whole body at will, this technique makes it impossible to receive damage from physical attacks." Note specifically it is not the ability to make liquid from one's body. ZeroSD (talk) 23:55, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * His technique is very similar to a technique we already know, from a clan the character was confirmed to be part of. Saying he uses a variation of it is much less speculative than saying he uses a completely unrelated ability, yet similar looking ability. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:23, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Except a variation would still not be it; He creates water/oil, that's it. It, if anything, sounds like a variation of the root technique of Hydrification. Furthermore, multiple people have techniques that create a substance directly from them, and also sometimes have a high-level with transformation, without all users of the school having that transformation (for example, Sasuke can make snakes from his body, but cannot turn into Snakes. Orochimaru can too and can turn into a snake. Anko's snake technique, in other words, shows as much sign as full transformation as Mizukage does, having the same technique school doesn't mean you have every technique in it). Related? Yes. Does he have the technique? No, and remember, Hydrification is specifically the *transformation*, not making water. Plus, we've seen none of Hydrification's most obvious signs- namely, the body actually flowing, or especially when tired someone looking very watery. You need to stop trying to prove that making water looks similar to hydrification, something we're both agreed on, and try and prove actual hydrification transformation. ZeroSD (talk) 02:12, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Your snake techniques argument is moot. Sasuke only used techniques involving snakes after he absorbed Orochimaru, and Orochimaru himself experimented extensively on himself, becoming a snake. Lots of his techniques, the ones he share's with Anko included, involve summoning snakes, they don't create it out of nothing, they summon it. Sasuke could only do those because he had absorbed Orochimaru. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:31, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why are you so transfixed on turning into water as opposed to producing it. You're making it seems like they're world apart.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:37, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Omnibender But Sasuke can grow snakes directly too (like when he used 'em to replace a lost wing), and snake transformation is an advanced technique in the same jutsu school. Or Konan- Konan can make paper even when she's not transformed into paper, like when she did her final technique in flesh mode, or before she learned the transformation. And Yamato can make wood grow out of his hands or even body and face but can't become wood. Being able to make something =/= being able to transform into something, even if there is a transformation jutsu in the same school. ZeroSD (talk) 03:12, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Cerez Because turning into the water *is* the Hydrification technique! If you can't prove transformation, you can't prove hydrification. A water bullet technique is not a water dragon technique, for example, and if I'm requesting proof of someone having water dragon, no amount of showing someone has water bullet is proof of water dragon. You're emphasizing water, water, water, but I'm pointing out there's still no dragon. If you think hydrification is just creation of water and not transformation... well, get to re-writing. Change the jutsu description to water making and give water transformation it's own page as a related jutsu and I'll be right there with you. ZeroSD (talk) 03:12, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

How about this as a compromise since this is going nowhere. We keep him as a Hozuki clan member and remove the hydro tech till more clearer information comes out.Umishiru (talk) 02:46, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Whether or not he's a Hōzuki isn't being brought into disrepute so that's not an issue so it can't be used as compromise.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:50, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

He produces water from his finger, and said finger can be seen to be somewhat liquefied on the tip. He's a Hozuki, and a powerful, Kage one at that. He destroys sand with an oily water despite being immobilized, meaning he's releasing a sizable amount of water from somewhere and it obviously isn't his mouth since his head was visible. Not to mention, there aren't many (none, that I can remember anyway) instances of someone using a clan-specific technique without being a member of that clan. His Water Gun technique is obviously related to the Hydrification technique in that it liquefies one's body. He hasn't directly shown to use the tech., but there were several indicators of it. There have been things that were less clear in the series that had to be taken without direct indication. The Body Pathway Derangement being Raiton, for example. To recap, he uses a related tech, he's a Kage level Hozuki, destroys the sand with an oily water that wasn't the water gun technique (didn't penetrate the sand). Skitts (talk) 17:01, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * ZeroSD, please don't try to make threaded replies, that messes with the chronological organisation of the page, you don't know who replied first to who. When Sasuke changed the lost wing into a snake, that was after absorbing Orochimaru as well. He never did such a thing before. All abilities involving snakes were used while he had absorbed Orochimaru, and we has never shown using them either before doing that or after Itachi sealed Orochimaru. If the Mizukage's technique doesn't turn out to be the Hydrification Technique, we'll simply make a new one, simple as that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:06, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * First Skitt's replies- "He produces water from his finger, and said finger can be seen to be somewhat liquefied on the tip." More precisely, it has liquid *on* it. It was not actually liquified on the slightest. "He destroys sand with an oily water despite being immobilized, meaning he's releasing a sizable amount of water from somewhere and it obviously isn't his mouth since his head was visible" Ok, we both agree that he can make water from his body. That isn't what hydrification is, so it's definitely not proof. "Not to mention, there aren't many (none, that I can remember anyway) instances of someone using a clan-specific technique without being a member of that clan." Didn't say he's not from the clan. But consider how Shino's dad has destruction beetles, Torune has destruction nanobugs. They're both clan techniques with the same base, but different jutsu paths with different abilities. Mizukage has different clan water techniques in other words. "His Water Gun technique is obviously related to the Hydrification technique in that it liquefies one's body." No, it doesn't. It *makes* liquid, a very different thing. "He hasn't directly shown to use the tech., but there were several indicators of it." Those indicators are all showing lesser related jutsu. Hydrification, total transformation, is a more advanced one. Think of how Konan can make paper without transforming.

Now Omnibenders- Sorry, I'm not exactly sure how to do it with such a complex conversation ^^; "When Sasuke changed the lost wing into a snake, that was after absorbing Orochimaru as well. He never did such a thing before." I fail to see your point. What does whether he's absorbed Orochimaru or not have to do with the fact that one can have a technique come out of the body without having a related transformation technique? (Sasuke can't turn into a snake even post-Oro merge but can make snakes directly from his body) And there's the Konan example that's even clearer, even after she's been knocked out of paper form she can still create new paper. "If the Mizukage's technique doesn't turn out to be the Hydrification Technique, we'll simply make a new one, simple as that." The techniques he has shown definitely isn't. He doesn't have the transformation, and Hydrification is just the transformation, not the water creation. ZeroSD (talk) 02:34, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that all of Orochimaru's techniques involving snakes either was through summoning them or by using the snakes that composed his highly experimented on body. As Sasuke only used snakes while having Orochimaru, it means that he had the same limitations as Orochimaru, meaning he couldn't simply transform into a snake, it would either go through summoning or through snakes composing him, which would be channelling Orochimaru's powers. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:43, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * My point isn't about how he got it, though. It's that he can have a jutsu, snakes, come directly from his body like in chapter 359, without being able to transform into it, and he's not the only one, Yamato makes wood (a water-related jutsu!) from his body without transforming. Thus, direct body creation of a jutsu does not mean one can transform. ZeroSD (talk) 00:27, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Uhm though I stopped following this so I'm not too sure what all this is about, but i don't think that Yamato's use of Mokuto that has water as a base element can in no way be a valid example of someone not transforming.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:10, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is we have *several* types of jutsu of several schools, elemental and non-elemental, where the jutsu is made directly from the non-transformed body. Making jutsu from the body isn't evidence of transformation in short, and it's the only thing being presented as physical evidence he has transformation. We've also seen him be physically hit and not splash too. Or in other words, we don't have proof of transformation, and even some evidence against it. Just body-element-creation. ZeroSD (talk) 01:49, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * But when you compare all of that you have there where you're drawing references from all over the place, compared to references that can all be linked back to one singular reference→ "Hōzuki clan" I don't think it measures up quite well.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:10, October 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Either way, regardless of whether or not a presidence has been set in other elements, the direct production of water from a body has not been observed aside from the Hydrification Technique, which merely offers a plausible explanation as to how this may occur.
 * ZeroSD, the alternative you present is filled with just as much conjecture as the proposition that you argue against, as it too does not feature explicit evidence to affirm it. However, in a case such as this, where the options are between a previously established technique that can account for everything seen or a completely new one based solely on the absence of an express statement or a considerable transformation, you must at least by now be able to understand why Omnibender and others may have chosen to side with the former.
 * It's pretty apparent at this point that neither side is willing to relent and that this arguement could continue indefinitely as a result, so may I suggest that someone with authority state exactly what the wiki's policy is to be on this particular issue, so everyone involved can move on until a time where more evidence comes to light. Blackstar1 (talk) 02:09, October 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * "But when you compare all of that you have there where you're drawing references from all over the place, compared to references that can all be linked back to one singular reference→ "Hōzuki clan" I don't think it measures up quite well." Hozuki clan isn't proof either, though. Not all members of a clan have all clan jutsu, and he's actually demonstrated a lack of splattering when hit or other effects.

"the direct production of water from a body has not been observed aside from the Hydrification Technique, which merely offers a plausible explanation as to how this may occur." But one which doesn't fit everything we've seen, and all other known transformations have a non-transformative creative jutsu that are related. "ZeroSD, the alternative you present is filled with just as much conjecture as the proposition that you argue against, as it too does not feature explicit evidence to affirm it." My entire point is that there is doubt in it's existence. You can't prove a negative, and as you admit, the other point is based on conjecture. Everything he does can be done without hydrification, and there is visual evidence against hydrification. There is very certainly reasonable doubt, and then some, on the matter. "However, in a case such as this, where the options are between a previously established technique that can account for everything seen" Actually, it cannot. Hydrification can't make oil (an entirely new ability), nor does it explain why he can be hit without transforming, or why when he gets tired he gets less wet when Suigetsu becomes more liquid-y when tired or injured. Hydrification as defined on it's page is purely transformation, and Mizukage's abilities are purely liquid creation with no sign of transformation. "so may I suggest that someone with authority state exactly what the wiki's policy is to be on this particular issue, so everyone involved can move on until a time where more evidence comes to light." If it's an admin not directly involved in the debate, at least. I argue this falls under the existing policy on when there's doubt of a jutsu, we don't add it until there's confirmation.ZeroSD (talk) 02:39, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

"Jokey Boy"
I suspect that Second Mizukage can have a family relation to Mu. Because: As it was said in the manga, Oonoki stated that he was "Not the same little he used too pick on", which maybe meens thay knew eachother as friends. And that he knew one of Mu's, ancestors secret technique, which means thay maybe are distant relatives.

Or maybe that he somehow manage too steal the technique.

The Mizukage knew Ōnoki because he was Mū's pupil, who the Mizukage fought in many occasions. What you read was a terrible translation, what the chapter really said is that the technique was something not even Mū knew how to deal with. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:47, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

where can i find the correct translation cause everywhere i go it says the same thing (74.141.196.236 (talk) 19:59, September 23, 2011 (UTC))
 * ShounenSuki is our translator, he got it from spoiler texts describing the chapter, it's in his talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:17, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * And he is waaay better than Naruhodo. When will mangastream learn --Cosmikaze (talk) 09:40, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

MangaStream generally has the best translations actually (from the scanlators that I know of anyway). The real problem for the last 10 or so chapters has been Naruhodo having taken over the translating. He notably drops the ball in several cases Skitts (talk) 03:44, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Second Mizukage Hydrification Technique special ability
Hello everyone,

here some taughts about this oily water technique from the 2nd Mizukage. Whether it is the Hydrification Technique or not is arguable (he never stated it), but nowhere it is mentioned what his technique really does. What I read on the talk pages, you think Gaaras sand is rendered useless in a similar matter like Konans paper body is affected by Jirayas oil. I think there is much more behind this oily water than just the properties of water and oil:

On chap 548, page 14 the second Raikage is explaining why Gaara´s seal is not working. He used the words: "As soon as it recognizes an enemy jutsu ... it is programmed to respond on its own" and it is nullifying enemy jutsus.

Probably this "oily water" is an highly advanced form of the Hydrification Technique, which can be programmed! and nullifies enemy jutsus on contact!!! A technique which is acting on its own was never mentioned before in naruto (beside the Chakra cloak, but all of us know that it is because of the tailed beast chakra).

If that is the case, then this jutsu should be a parent jutsu to the Hydrification Technique and should receive at least an own page.

Maybe some people agree with me

Thanks for reading :-)

Cross111 (talk) 15:33, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

You misunderstood what the Raikage meant when he said 'programmed'. He meant that the bodies of the resurrected are set so that they respond to enemy jutsu in a way to nullify and/or counter them. The Second Mizukage's tech is highly unlikely to work on its own outside of S:IWR. Kabuto simply set it so that they use the necessary techniques when, well, necessary. It is in no way similar to the tailed beast chakra cloaks. Skitts (talk) 16:29, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the fact that the translation is not very precise, and I also included this possibility. But what is about the nullifying ability of the oily water? Cross111 (talk) 16:44, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * The structure of sand is broken down by water. It's as simple as if you were building and sand castle at the beach and the tide came in.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:48, September 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Gaara's sand is weak against water, but Second's oil makes it even worse, that unlike water, it "stinks" tot eh sand particles, "glue" them together, so actually he makes a kind of rock from the sand, similar to the gold dust used by Gaara's father, but more potent. Thats at least how I understand the physiques behind this. --VolteMetalic (talk) 17:11, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oil as a Tool
Since it was shown that the Mizukage actually uses oil in his techniques, shouldn't that be added for him as tool or something like that? The Tyrant jutsu and his Hydrification make use of it...any ideas/opinions? Darksusanoo (talk) 14:16, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would it be a tool if he creates the oil?--Deva 27 14:19, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

if you list the oil as a tool on his page then jiraiya and the toad would have to be placed too but its not necessarily..--DragonStyleNaruto (talk) 00:03, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oil isn't listed as a tool, because it isn't one. Hence why Jiraiya doesn't have it as a tool, because the oil that they use comes from ninjutsu. Skitts (talk) 16:11, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

Water Axe
The large Water Axe used by Mizukage in Joki Bôi is a technique?


 * I'm pretty sure it's part of Steaming Danger Tyranny since they mention it there. Joshbl56 (talk) 19:46, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

2nd Mizukage listed as a Water Clone User.
So considering the use of Steaming Danger Tyranny or "Jokey Boy" Shouldn't The 2nd Mizu be placed as a user of water clone jutsu. Onoki states that the technique is made using a clone of mixing the water and oil. I.e. a water clone with thin layer of oil on top of it.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/33966361/3

--DragonStyleNaruto (talk) 23:34, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Oil forms the outline and it has water floating inside. Saying it's derived from the Water Clone technique is going to far in my opinion.--Deva 27 23:36, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I second what deva says cause if you look farther down the page it shows that the clone isn't completely made of water so it is not a water clone. More along the lines of an oil clone that is filled with water. Joshbl56 (talk) 02:49, September 30, 2011 (UTC)