Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-39468671-20200614003405/@comment-6769189-20200616090338

UltimaDude wrote:

Both the Great Fire Annihilation and Great Fire Destruction are derived from the Great Fire Ball Technique that differ in range and power. So, that's not helping your case So changing range and power makes a jutsu different in this case but not Senjutsu Rasengan having a different composition makes it not different?

UltimaDude wrote:

The only modifications that would make the Rasengan any different is the size, number, and change in chakra nature. Both the Rasengan and it's senjutsu variant are the same size, number, and both have no change in chakra nature. But its made of different energies. To say that Senjutsu Rasengan and regular Rasengan are the same is dishonest and misleading because there is a difference in composition

UltimaDude wrote:

You're reaching with the Chidori example with that reductive argument. There's obviously more to the Chidori than just a simple jab, which you, yourself have pointed out. So you basically defeated your argument there. With the Rasengan on the other hand, there's nothing more or nothing less to it than a spinning ball of chakra formed and held in the palm of the user's hand. Simply making the Rasengan out of sage chakra, instead of normal chakra, doesn't change that Wait, so when you reduce Rasengan to its conceptual basis, it is valid but when i do so it is invalid.

You are doing exactly what Guy did, just to a somewhat lesser degree

Wind Release Rasengan, Vanishing Rasengan, and Magnet Release Rasengam are all swirling balls of chakra in the palm of the hand but their chakra compositions are different giving them different effects and attributes, which makes them different.

UltimaDude wrote:

They are not the same design. The one on Gaara's looks far more "veiny" with less dots and said thats are more "free". The ones on the face are exactly the same as the ones that Shukkaku has. Squiggly lines connected to crescent-like shapes and dots.

UltimaDude wrote:

They are not the same marks. In fact the marks here are far more distinct compared to the ones on the first transformation and sealing technique. You have to be very disingenuous to say that they look alike. Check the chapters with this form. There are close-ups showing that they are the same

UltimaDude wrote:

Lol, no they are not. Do you see any line wrapped around the MR: Rasengan that has the dots and squiggles stemming out of it with a big 'ole circular mark? The lines wraps around and become more interconnected on Madara as they spread across his body... almost like when Shukkaku added his seals to the the Sand Funeral

MR Rasengan does have those circular marks, just not layered 8 times over. Look at the center. The 1 dot with 1 ring around it is all over MR Rasengan.

UltimaDude wrote:

It is a straw man, since I never argued that they were the same technique, but nature. So let's drop the Rasengan/Senjutsu Rasengan since you're reaching anyways. Ok so your argument is that since they look the same that they are the same nature

Clones, Shadow Clones, Lightning Release Shadow Clones, Exploding Shadow Clones, Water Clones, Crow Clones, Ink Clones, and Wood Clones are the same nature because they look the same

Vanishing Rasengan and Rasengan are the same nature because they look the same.

Senjutsu Rasengan and regular Rasengan are the same in principle and execution but different in composition, and have different effects. Case and point: Senjutsu Rasengan injures Juubi Junchuriki, regular Rasengan dont. Senjutsu Rasengan cant be erased by TSB.

UltimaDude wrote:

The normal Rasenshurikens don't always explode, for the ones that don't, are they still not Wind Release? Name one instance

UltimaDude wrote:

The explosions lasted for one panel, so there wasn't a lot of contact time. The particular Rasenshuriken was used in conjunction of other variants and was also behind some of them, meaning it exploded before it could even come in direct contact with Kaguya. A short, multi-layered explosion may not have been the ideal condition for the particular Rasenshuriken to manifest its sealing properties. From what we seen they all converged on one point and exploded simultaneously. Otherwise it would be a waste of time an energy to form and throw attacks that wouldnt even hit.

Lasting "one panel" isnt representative of the passage of time.

UltimaDude wrote:

Not to mention, Naruto's intention wasn't to seal Kaguya when he threw the Rasenshurikens Then what is the point of using a technique with a Magnet Release Rasengan in the center of it? Its a sealing jutsu.

UltimaDude wrote:

Like I said before, they are both the result of SPSM Naruto infusing Shukaku's chakra into a Rasengan (in the case of the Rasenshuriken, there was wind chakra as well). Both the MR: Rasengan and the core of the particular Rasenshuriken look exactly the same. You would have a point if an entirely different character produced a technique with the same markings, but we've only seen Naruto produced the markings on the MR: Rasengan and the core of the particular Rasenshuriken. It's very likely that the particular Rasenshuriken is Magnet Release And like i said, infusing Shukkaku's chakra doesnt necessarily mean that it is Magnet release.

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

Deva path isn't telekinetic manipulation of inorganic objects. It has either almighty Push or Universal Pull. And why do you pull Doujutsu abilities again and again? They're clearly different. Because you are over here talking about "In the anime, what I see is people calling any ability that controls inorganic objects through telekinesis "Jiton"." I dont even think telekinesis is a thing on Naruto. Wtf are you talking about. The anime characters call it Magnet Release because it is. Somebody even asked Gaara where he found a Magnet Release user.

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

Now, that there is someone that believes sand is Jiton, Only you and the OP believe that for some bizarre reason

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

Sand and Gold dust is never used to mark a target, they're just manipulated. Because different users implement Magnet Release in different ways. 3rd Kaze, Rasa, and Shinki use it to manipulate granular matter into various shapes to suit their needs

Toroi uses it to magnetize opponants so that his weapons are harder to evade.

Like how Sasuke uses lightning release in his hand but 4th Raikage uses Lightning Release all over his body.

Or like the 3rd Raikage uses his Lightning Armor with Hell Stab, but 4th Raikage uses Lightning Armor to do wrestling moves

Or how Dodai uses Lava Release to make Rubber but Roshi uses it to coat his body but Mei just floods the area with an acidic mud-like substance.

Or how Mei uses Boil Release to create a corrosive mist but Han uses it to amp his taijutsu.

Are you understanding this concept yet? A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

And they do not need any "third" nature to enhance them. They are literally using Lightning Release to enhance their Magnet Release. Go read the novel or a summary or the wiki page or watch the anime again.

No one in the series talks about electromagnetism unless lightning release is flowing through Iron Sand

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

They never make use of magnetic poles. You cant manipulate magnetic forces without manipulating the the poles. Please go learn about magnets and magnetic fields

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

It's not even said that they have the ability to even manipulate magnetic fields other than it being called "Magnet Release" Since the definition of Magnet Release is manipulating Magnetic forces, we only need to be told that a character is using Magnet Release to know they can Manipulate Magnetic forces.

Why is that so hard to understand?

A4RONS4JIS4M wrote:

Whenever it's on screen, I can't help but notice how much more different it gets than Sand/Gold dust manipulation. Thats because different tools have different properties to take advantage of. Take Shuriken and Kunai for example. Both bladed weapons, but they are made in such a way that Shuriken are only effective as throwing weapons.