Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-29517168-20160328040252/@comment-142748-20160401211941

9 Arts dragon wrote: 1.First of all nothing was casual by them he even needed the help from Kurama in order to destroy several meteors Sasuke took his time and split the meteors and ran back to save the others from being trapped in mugen Yes, it was casual. Naruto expended ZERO effort doing so. Sasuke 'took his time'? He casually flew by and cut up a Chibaku Tensei as it was an annoyance. You seriously are downplaying them. 2.Theyre not planets a dimension/space time is not a planet that's absurd and they had a moon which means it has space in it and is not merely a planet that notion is ridiculous
 * facepalm

They are planets. We see one from outer space. You are denying visual evidence to claim that Kaguya isn't a planet buster since it doesn't suit your argument. Yes Madara can use teleportation kishimoto wrote that with six paths mode characters gain universal understanding or something alone those lines in which case he knows how to use it First of all, Madara never showed that capability. Its not Six Paths Sage Mode that gave Naruto that ability. And you're confusing Six Paths Sage Mode with Six Paths Coffin Seal, two different yet similar techniques. And secondly, Madara never showed the capability of teleportation. He's not Kaguya, he's not as strong as Kaguya. He can't do what she can and this is blatant in the manga. And she didn't snapped a twig but snapped one of her horns and made her bleed. And I'm not nitpicking at all Sakura didn't make her bleed. She just snapped the horn. The blood was from the wound she ALREADY sustained by Kakashi who had Six Paths chakra to power him up for his Kamui Raikiri. Again you're mentioning irrelevancies I know full well of her feats but despite those she's not a good fighter she's just powerful princess who needs black Zetsu as her brains honestly she's the reason Narutos ending was bad a terrible villain but that's a discussion for another day It doesn't matter if she 'ruined the ending' for you or a 'terrible villain'. Kaguya is the strongest character int he entire series. Naruto and Sasuke were matching her both together and individually. If they can do that against her, Madara isn't a trouble at all. 3. He used IT he never ran from them if he did he would have not have confronted them after using it and yes Sasukes rinnegan rendered him immune to IT but not the others including Naruto 'He never ran!'

> Madara flies up and lets his Limbo fight and creates Chibaku Tensei as a distraction. > Never fights Naruto and Sasuke directly

Yeah, that is running. And Sasuke's mere presence robbed Madara of defeating Team 7. His feats his feats his feats? How about his showings and what he's shown to possess and common sense? ...showings are feats man. And you're not using common sense, you're exaggerating Madara's capabilities while downplaying Naruto, Sasuke, Toneri, Momoshiki, Hagoromo, and even Kaguya so you can claim Madara is the strongest the Narutoverse has to offer and that he can't be surpassed. If that was the case are you serious???? You don't have any evidence of your claim other than your own preconceived notions. Tomoes define power the Juubi Obito absorbed had the same eye as Sasuke and the Juubi Madara asborbed had the same rinne sharigan as Madara and Kaguya therefore his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sasukes deal with it First of all, 'tomoes define power' was never said or stated in the manga, that's a fan made assertion. Secondly, Madara has no feats superior to Sasuke, much less adult Sasuke who can do what Kaguya can do. What are you talking about? A one eyed Madara? Again with that Naruto was stopped dead in his tracks and would've been killed if it weren't for Sasuke That's blatantly false. One-eyed Juubi Jin Madara never 'stopped Naruto dead in his tracks and nearly killed him'. Naruto was sensing the Limbo and was reacting. Sasuke could see the Limbo, Naruto could sense it. Later, Naruto could fight all four Limbo's that Madara created without Sasuke's help. Madara at Fullpower was never shown all of those dojutsu together are surely stronger than them individually Except you don't have the evidence to support that. He doesn't have the feats for it. He DOES no lack knowledge read the databooks not only the manga he has universal understanding of nature or something it's written by kishimoto No he doesn't. Only two users of that are Naruto and Hagoromo. Madara isn't one of them. Toneri was not beaten by a six paths Naruto but a sage chakra mode Naruto in one blow Naruto showed no traces of six paths power Naruto could fly in that form, thus he was using Six Paths Chakra. And it was Biju Sage Mode, not chakra mode. Naruto condensed his entire transformation into his fist to block an attack that could cut the moon in half, strange how you ignore that. War Arc Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto wouldn't have been able to do that at all. The Last's version of Biju Sage Mode Naruto is far stronger than his War Arc self, and we know this since his feats are superior. And thus, Juubi Jin Mada and Juubi Jin Obito are also weaker than Toneri since Toneri fought a stronger Naruto who still possessed Six Paths chakra and used it. And for beaten by Naruto his feats power scale to everyone with more chakra and more powerful dojutsus than him including Madara he's not stronger because hur his feats are better despite Madara at Fullpower never being shown or using his true capabilities No, Naruto's feats only scale to Sasuke, Hagoromo, Hamura, Toneri, Momoshiki, and Kaguya. Madara and Obito do not scale to them. And yes, if someone has better feats, it means they are stronger. If we see what they can do, that means they are stronger.

Madara was surpassed. Seriously, you're making him out to be something he's not. Really you want to claim Naruto was at Fullpower against Toneri despite the fact that upon his chakra being sucked out he reverts back to base form and kyuubi noting nothing of it?? Naruto was at full power. First of all: Sakura had spent three days replenishing his chakra. Secondly, Naruto and Kurama are linked. And Naruto channeled his entire transformation into one fist to overpower Toneri's attack and then knock him out. You conveniently ignore that.

Naruto wasn't weakened. At all. That's fan made. As if it matters anyways Yeah, go on ignoring feats so you can claim that Madara is stronger when he showed he really wasn't. Mugen tsukuyomi was only countered by Sasuke,limbo were only countered by him as well.And it did not lead to Kaguya or Madaras defeat they needed help from Obito and kakashi with a ridiculous asspull to fight once she turned into the chakra blob Naruto was countering Limbo too. His first USAGE of Six Paths Sage Mode was his avoidance of Limbo which shocked Madara! He fought four limbo clones on his own and won.

Both Naruto and Sasuke showed the power and capability to defeat Madara. Kaguya is a different story since she can only be defeated via the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei and that she's the strongest character in the enter Narutoverse. Yes because the current gen Darui and chojuro are stronger than the God of shinobi and Madara despite the fact that they don't possess nearly as much power but let's just brush that aside too? Lol If their feats show it, yes. Are you really ignoring the fact that the manga hit it over our heads that the previous generation is surpassed by the new? It was the main theme of the Kakuzu battle. Kaguya never overpowered them at once only one on one and she was being led by black zetsu as well they wouldn't be able to beat her without Obito who shouldn't even have been alive at that time 'Kaguya never overpowered them?'


 * Eighty Gods attack vs Naruto's chakra fists. Naruto is overpowered.
 * Complete Body - Susanoo Rinnegan Sasuke vs Kaguya. Overpowered twice with ease.
 * Kaguya vs Naruto's 5000 clones. Kaguya plows through all of them.

However, at times Naruto and Sasuke overpowered her. Naruto used Kokuo's power to physically overpower her. Sasuke nearly hit a six paths Chidori on her and his Complete Body - Susanoo adapted to her power and he blocked her attacks.

Instead of whining about how the fight went, just analyze the feats given. Limbo was retconned physical attacks shouldn't have worked against it but again another ridiculous asspull the final arc is full of them either way Narutos clones shouldn't have been able to stall them although he never dealt with his limbo even Sasuke notes AFTER mugen that his shadows are still out there and they needed their combined might to destroy Chibaku tensei he referred to as rain drops There were no retcons. And this is a really weak argument. When you are disproven, you call retcon or asspull. And they needed their combined might for Chibaku Tensei? Since when, Naruto explicitly said he wiped out all of them. What Sasuke was referring to was the seals that would be used on Kaguya. You mistook them.

Yes yes he is stronger than them individually Shame you haven't proven it. Hagoromo who GAVE them those powers said that a pre shinju tree absorbed Madara with one eye is close to him in power Madaras power grew so much he gained the same eye Kaguya did when she ate the chakra fruit itself and awakened a 9 Tomoe rinne sharigan No, Hagoromo said Madara was approaching his power, but never said he was close. Doesn't matter if Madara has the same eye as Kaguya, he lacks her chakra and overall power. Madara never even surpassed Hagoromo, while Naruto and Sasuke did reach his level. And yes all of those together are stronger than themselves individually and no Madara could use the bijuus power properly he didn't have an inter struggle with himself as Obito did he could properly control said power and use it as he saw fit Madara can't use the Biju's individual powers. He can't use Shukaku's Magnet Release and cursed seal. He can't use Son Goku's Lava Release. He can't use Kokuo's Boil Release. He can't use Matatabi's blue flames. He can't use Isoabu's Water Release. He can't use Saiken's alkaline. He can't use Chomei's blinding scales. He can't use Gyuki's ink. He can't use Kurama's negative emotions sensing. Naruto can. That's what makes Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode superior to Madara and Obito's Six Path's Coffin Seal. As it stands momoshiki and kinshiki who got beaten by 2 kages who are bellow hashirama and used mediocre techniques to do so as well are not and will never be above Madara Momoshiki was defeated by Naruto and Sasuke. Kinshiki let himself die after severing the Shinju. And the Kages have better feats and portrayal than the last generation.

You love downplaying everyone but Madara. You really don't have an argument. You ignore feats. You make things up. You give Madara feats he doesn't have.