Narutopedia talk:Canon policy

Yey
I assume this still has some work to be done or is it basically completed? Otherwise, it seems like this could probably end most of those pointless discussions over canonicity and it looks good. (Happy now with this post, Seelentau?) --Sajuuk 00:22, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Can we include databooks and this point,
 * When certain things in databook contradict the manga, they should be written in trivia section
 * I know all discussions regarding databooks are finished and are dealt this way, this is just to let everybody know how we handle things here.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 05:52, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that something like that should be mentioned. We don't know if we'll be getting more databooks in the future. --Sajuuk 12:48, July 3, 2016 (UTC)
 * Could easily be the case, we have one hand sign left and only ~80 or so parts of the Konoha 100 Leafs thingy. Also, the last 10 chapters of the original manga weren't covered. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:21, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Movies
Lovely to see how much the canon policy has solved thus far. There's a current dispute about movies (excluding The Last and Boruto). Are they non-canon? A-canon? C-canon? Their own canon? I would guess C-canon, but it doesn't seem to be solving much in terms of which edits are valid and such... 16:55, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * They're obviously A-canon, as they're essentially made by Studio Pierrot and are on the same level as content that is unique to the anime. The exception to this is "The Last", which is made clear to be a continuation of K-canon.
 * I don't know why people feel like bringing up canon/non-canon when they start their pointless edit wars with well-intentioned users, that has zero relevance to how this wiki records things, but it clearly hasn't gotten through to everyone yet. --Sajuuk 16:58, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * If in the policy article The Road to Ninja movie is noted to be C-canon (despite Kishi's involvement in creating it), thus all the other movies can be considered as C-canon, but not higher. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 17:30, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Also Sajuuk, this wasn't a pointless edit war and as I told you multiple times before, canonicity is relevant because in cases of contradicting information, we have to have a way of deciding which information weighs more. Otherwise, all information from all sources would be equally correct and the articles would be a shitfest of contradicting information (eg Kaguya's backstory). But well, since this comes from me, I'm pretty sure you'll deny it anyways. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:44, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm hesitant to classify the movies as "A-canon" because in my experience with other anime such as Dragon Ball or One Piece, it's not a smart idea to try and position the movies anywhere. Movies are their own independent stories that take characters from the main storyline in the manga/anime. The anime is not completely non-canon because it still adapts the manga, whereas the movies do not. Then again, I don't mind making trivia points about the position of movies, since it's merely trivia where we don't necessarily state things as facts.
 * Also, involvement hardly dictates canon. The movies being made by Studio Pierrot doesn't mean they're all A-canon, because by that logic Road to Ninja should be K-canon simply because of Kishimoto's heavy involvement in that. 17:46, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau: No, canonicity is not relevant. Dantman has made it clear many times that it does not matter what level of canonicity something has, we record everything and annotate those things that only exist in specific media. The canon policy was made to stop the constant discreditation and removal of information from this wiki, just because it came from some source the user didn't personally like. Case in point: this, this and this.
 * @WindStar7125: I never said "involvement" mattered, but you said it yourself: they're independent stories. All the films include the Studio Pierrot logo in them, the logo is not there just for the hell of it, they must have had plenty of involvement. Road to Ninja was a movie-unique story that just happened to include some involvement from Kishi, but it wasn't fully written by him, or it would indeed be K-canon if he fully wrote it. However, the films were clearly created to fit into specific times of the anime (and later the manga), based on the characters that are present and the things that the characters say in the movie. --Sajuuk 18:05, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * Of course we record everything, but if the manga said Rock Lee can't use Ninjutsu and a movie shows him using Rasengan, we wouldn't say that he can use Ninjutsu, simply because manga > movies. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:13, August 18, 2016 (UTC)

The new Boruto manga isn't fully written by Kishi at all, and it's still considered to be on the highest tier of canon. The movies being produced by Studio Pierrot don't automatically make them "A-canon". Hence why involvement (as in, who wrote or produced or "made" it) is almost irrelevant in dictating canon. And if the films were "clearly created to fit specific times of the anime" despite there being no statements whatsoever confirming that, then I can equally say the anime fillers were "clearly created to fit specific times of the manga". For instance, Kaguya's backstory. It was clearly created to give backstory on what happened before the main series, yet contradicts a ton of information from the manga and databooks, and cannot be considered to fit in the manga's depiction of events. Thus, why a movie such as Road to Ninja has been classified as "C-canon" in the first place. I'm merely asking that all other movies follow suit. 18:14, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau: Yes, we would record it by saying "In the movie, Rock Lee was shown using a Rasengan. It is unknown how he was able to perform this technique, as he is not able to utilise the chakra network to perform ninjutsu." as a trivia point. If a character was shown doing something in one media that is contradictory to another media, then we note it as a trivia point and use the specific media tags in the infobox to show that the character used that technique in that specific media. That is how it has always been on this wiki, long before you became a sysop here.
 * @WindStar7125: Have you actually watched any of the movies? If you had, you would see that there are scenes in just about every movie that gives the viewer a clear indication of the movie's position to the anime. Also, the anime is a direct adaptation of the manga, it can do whatever it wants and heck it could have just created it's completely independent story and just borrowed elements of the manga, such as storylines or character names. --Sajuuk 18:20, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * And that's the point. If we wouldn't follow canonicity, that puts the manga above the movie, Rock Lee would be able and would not be able to use Ninjutsu at the same time. The article would literally state "Rock Lee can and also can not use ninjutsu". But going by canonicity, it would state "Rock Lee can not use ninjutsu, but in movie X, he uses Rasengan". See the difference? Also, you don't need to remind me how it was before I became sysop, I've been around only two months less than you. ? Seelentau ? ? 18:24, August 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * It gives a clear position of the arc(s) the movie is supposed to fit in, but we can't say for sure "This movie happened between this and that episode", especially when there's a little or completely no timeskip in the anime for these events to happen. As already said, the particular movie just borrows the characters' concepts from the particular point in the storyline, but it doesn't automatically make it fit into this point. Okay, after reading another movies' articles, I realised that I was a bit too strict to trivia points, but I still find it highly unreasonable to make notes about the particular movie being placed between two particular episode as if it was a fact, when there's completely no evidence proving it. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:31, August 18, 2016 (UTC)