Talk:Kekkei Mōra

4 to 6 Elements?
Considering Obito was able to perform Truth-Seeking Spheres which Hiruzen determined to only consist of Four Elements... And the Truth-Seeking Spheres being a Kekkei Mora... Isnt it possible that a Kekkei Mora is possible with only Four Elements? Especially since Obito's were also usable without even Yin-Yang Release, and Naruto's without Yin Release. This to me seems to suggest Kekkei Mora is possible with at least 4 elements, and further stabilizing with every subsequently acquired element and regaining more of its powers. Skarrj (talk) 05:27, September 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sarutobi didn't say "only four natures", but "at least". • Seelentau 愛 議 09:33, September 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Also only Kaguya's TSB was stated to consist of all natures, thus only hers should be considered Kekkei Mora, as there's no evidence every user's TSB are all natures--Elveonora (talk) 10:40, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto and others
This discussion is closed.

There's no evidence theirs use all natures. Kekkei Mora was ever only attributed to Kaguya. Black Zetsu described it as "Expansion Truth-Seeking Ball of Bloodline Encompassing" if Naruto, Obito and Madara's TSB had used Kekkei Mora, theirs would have been described as such too, or rather it would be redundant to describe Kaguya's as of Kekkei Mora if the others' were the same.--Elve Talk Page 15:33, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

The new databook that's coming out next month should finally clear this mess.(Kuroiraikou (talk) 15:39, October 11, 2014 (UTC))


 * Nope. Not doing this again Elvenora. Until proven otherwise nothing is changing. Considering this the only warning. You know I don't warn twice.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 15:44, October 11, 2014 (UTC)

Kekkei Mōra in template code
Could someone of sysops or admninistration tell me if it's possible to create a same line in infobox for Kekkei Mōra, like in case of Kekkei Genkai and Kekkei Tōta ? Has this idea been mentioned before ? 20:15, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's already enabled. You need to add it manually, though. ~SnapperTo 20:33, November 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think so my Friend. I tried to add line to Kaguya's infobox source and it never appeared :/ Madsig.png Zero.png 03:16, November 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * ??? ~SnapperTo 04:36, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

Misunderstanding
I don't understand. Why are we suddenly classifing many jutsus as kekkei Mora? Like Amenominaka for example? Did the 4th databook state that? I thought Kekkei Mora were jutsus composed of the five basic natures. Also, Isn't the 4th databook going to come tomorrow? Why do we have some references on it? Like Sasuke's and Kaguya's techniques names.--KILLERBEE479 (talk) 16:15, November 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * It comes from a preview. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:19, November 2, 2014 (UTC)

TSB
Is there a reason for deleting the TSB from the article? o.ô • Seelentau 愛 議 04:45, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, don't we list the Blaze Release nature (the genetic mutation) under the Kekkei Genkai article? We don't list Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi (the result/jutsu) in the KG article. Didn't you say the TSB is the result/jutsu? Rather the TSB has an unknown nature and an unknown genetic mutation? That unspecified nature should be in the KM article. •  WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 04:54, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, you're right. I keep forgetting that^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 04:55, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hopefully the databook gives us that unspecified nature. ^_^ I think Snapper2 speculated in a thread that it would be called "Truth Release" or something. XD • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 04:58, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

I still think those techniques should be mentioned in the article, one way or another. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:31, November 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Do what you want, then. :P • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 20:22, November 10, 2014 (UTC)

Shikotsumyaku??
According to the Fourth Databook, can we list it in Kekkei Mōra, not Kekkei Genkai?--Sulina (talk) 07:29, November 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * What does it say?--Elve Talk Page 18:26, November 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think according to FF-Suzaku, All-Killing Ash Bones is a KKM, not Shikotsumyaku. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 18:35, November 11, 2014 (UTC)

so how is it?
Jin no Sho gives Kaguya only a Kekkei Mora label, but no Kekkei Genkai, am I right? But she has Byakugan, which is Kekkei Genkai, so is her Byakugan Kekkei Mora somehow? In that case, she does have Shikotsumyaku, but a Kekkei Mora version of it. But if we list her as Byakugan user then so should we as user of Shikotsumyaku. I know she is currently listed as a user of both Byakugan and Shikotsumyaku, but someone wanted to remove them with the reasoning that Jin no Sho doesn't list her or so--Elve Talk Page 21:25, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree i think there must be KKM versions of Bones and Byakugan for Kaguya. ./ Rage gtx (talk) 22:48, November 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * She is no user of the Shikotsumyaku. Her bone technique was described as being different and much stronger. Her Byakugan, on the other hand, was simply called Byakugan and there's nothing that indicates that it is a Kekkei Mora. • Seelentau 愛 議 03:00, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hagoromo is in the same position, is he not? He has a kekkei genkai (Rinnegan) but is only stated to have kekkei mora (unknown) in the databook. Truth-Seeking Ball not being a kekkei mora really complicates things.--BeyondRed (talk) 05:03, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Due to having Kaguya's bloodline (from being her son), and being shown in chapters 670 and 690 the ability to use a TSB without using tailed beast chakra (due to facing the original tailed beast in the Ten-Tails) and without being a jinchūriki (like Naruto, Obito and Madara), logically, the TSB is the KKM for Hagoromo. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 05:06, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, but the databook lists TSB as only ninjutsu (not even senjutsu, despite containing "sage chakra"). The databook also seems to count tailed beast advanced natures as kekkei genkai, so logically TSB would count as kekkei mora for Obito and Madara, wouldn't it?--BeyondRed (talk) 05:15, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

No, Obito and Madara weren't listed as KKM users. They don't have direct access to Kaguya's bloodline like Hagoromo does. And plus, the TSB is not related to a TB. In other words, it isn't a TB skill (which was a term made up here to differentiate "Ninjutsu" and "TB Ball"). • WindStar7125     05:31, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

So we remove her as a user of Shikotsumyaku? In that case, shouldn't we note her bone ability in kekkei mora article?--Elve Talk Page 09:18, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * We still have no idea what a Kekkei Mora is, though... • Seelentau 愛 議 13:44, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * I already removed her as a user and noted her bone ability in the KKM article hours ago before you brought up this topic. Keep up, Elve. :P • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 16:31, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Too busy being awesome to pay attention to a commoner :P--Elve Talk Page 17:00, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Kaguya' s ability
All Kaguya's ability are classified Kekkei Mora: Rinne-Sharingan, Byakugan, Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball. I think that we should also enter Kaguya's Shikotsumyaku. Sharingan91 (talk) 10:16, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kaguya does not have Shikotsumyaku.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 10:37, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Sharingan91: nel Quarto Databook, viene detto che la tecnica ossea di Kaguya non è Shikotsumyaku, ma qualcosa di più potente. (It's written in Italian, sorry folks)--JOA2010:43, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that this is as for the byakugan! Kaguya's Byakugan is KM, while that of her descendants is KG. Kaguya's Shikotsumyaku is KM, while that of her descendants is KG. Sharingan91 (talk) 10:48, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Forse, ma l'abilità di Kaguya non è mai stata chiamata Shikotsumyaku. (This is the last time I write in Italian, sorry =P)--JOA2010:53, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * @JOA: Anche se l'abilità di Kaguya non viene chiamata Shikotsumyaku, sempre manipolazione ossea è! Solo che quella di Kaguya è molto più forte, ha la capacità di polverizzare i bersagli colpiti(KM), mentre quella usata da kimimaro è un'abilità diluita(KG). Come per il Byakugan abbiamo quello di Kaguya che è molto più forte(KM) mentre quello dei sui discendenti è un potere diluito(KG)Sharingan91 (talk) 11:08, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Please write in English when you're discussing on the wiki's talk pages. Otherwise, other users are left out and that's not the purpose of a talk page. :) • Seelentau 愛 議 12:37, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

I call bs on the whole: "Kaguya doesn't have Shikotsumyaku" thing. I want to see it black on white where it's stated rather than just "x says y said z is true" Also since the book classifies her Byakugan as Kekkei Mora, it isn't unreasonable that she simply has Kekkei Mora version of Shikotsumyaku.--Elve Talk Page 13:00, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * The book doesn't "classify" her Byakugan as a KKM. You guys just decided that it does. That's a different thing. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:13, February 18, 2015 (UTC)


 * Databook "jin no Sho pag.25" I read a translation, it speaks of the inheritance left by Kaguya, her skills which were forwarded to the clan descendants.Sharingan91 (talk) 14:11, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * I know. But that doesn't mean that the original ability is a KKM. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:36, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Profile lists her as kekkei mora user, not kekkei genkai and her techniques which are used with the Byakugan are also kekkei mora, so Kishi decided so, not "you guys"--Elve Talk Page 15:03, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * None of her techniques require the usage of Byakugan. It's not like she cannot use her hair without the byakugan.--Omojuze (talk) 15:08, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

@Omojuze "Rabbit Hair Needle" is KM because Kaguya using her Byakugan, she targets the vital points of her enemy. "Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack"is KM because Kaguya using her Byakugan. Substantially all of its abilities are KM. They are diluted to her descendants -Byakugan KM -> Byakugan KG: -Sharingan KM(rinne sharingan) -> Sharingan KG -Shikotsumyaku KM -> Shikotsumyaku KG -Truth-Seeking Ball KM ->Truth-Seeking Ball. Sharingan91 (talk) 15:16, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Omo, none of the gentle fist techniques "require" the Byakugan either, yet they are listed as kekkei genkai because they are used in conjunction with the Byakugan.--Elve Talk Page 16:12, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Elve, the thing is that you're the guys who put 1 and 1 together, Kishi just gave you the 1 and the 1. The Byakugan was never directly called KKM. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:15, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Neither was Jiton ever directly stated to be Futon+Doton.--Elve Talk Page 16:25, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * All of her techniques are classified as Kekkei Mora because they were used by her. Byakugan and Shikotsumyaku are Kekkei Genkai, but when used by Kaguya they became Kekkei Mora. --Salamancc (talk) 16:50, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * It wasn't, but in that case, there's no other possibility. Here we have the possibility that you're wrong. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:59, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

I don't see that possibility, only that the databook may be wrong and your own words were that it's not our job to determine what's right or wrong but to document shit as stated.--Elve Talk Page 17:02, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think All Killing Ash Bones is Kekkei Mora and Shikotsumyaku isn't because we know it is Kekkei Genkai and inherited by clan a diluted version may be, so she doesn't have Shikotsumyaku and all her feats are Kekkei Mora, we can't list Shikotsumyaku and All Killing Ash Bones together in infobox because they are same thing but differ in power level or whatever reason, it will be like Listing her Byakugan as (KM) and (KG) together in infobox, so one is enough.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 17:22, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Byakugan is a kekkei genkai. End of story. Saying that it is a Kekkei Mora, although reasonable, would be false with the information that we have from the manga. And manga > databook.--Omojuze (talk) 17:26, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's kekkei mora for Kaguya for whatever reason, there's nothing unreasonable about that, it's a fact. Manga > databook it may be when it comes to deciding which is right about a thing when there's a conflict, but nothing in the manga says that "Oh, Kaguya's Byakugan is totally not a Kekkei Mora by the way"
 * @Mecha, All Killing Ash Bones is a technique not the name of her bone ability, which I think is simply kekkei mora version of Shikotsumyaku and I'm yet to see something that says otherwise.--Elve Talk Page 17:49, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * There's nothing that says "Kaguya's Byakugan is a Kekkei Mora" either. We have the manga that calls the Byakugan a Kekkei Genkai and the databook which - even with the revealing of Kekkei Mora - still doesn't call her Byakugan a Kekkei Mora. And we have you (and some others) who say "no, that's wrong and my assumption is correct". • Seelentau 愛 議 18:04, February 18, 2015 (UTC)