User talk:TheUltimate3

I need help, please
Ya, I wondered about that, too. Gotta see what the raw says. Seelentau 愛議 14:12, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

So...
it seems we have a deeper problem in this wiki. I got that feeling ever since ShounenSuki left. He was the calm that held the wiki together and now that he's gone, every discussion turns ape-shit in a couple of hours. See Blaze Release. I asked Elve-kun to start a discussion and left for maybe four hours, and when I come back, there are multiple replies with accusations and bolded words, because we all know that someone who bolds his words is right and the others are wrong.

Ever since I began here, I only wanted to clarify stuff, since I'm most likely the one with the most Naruto knowledge, at least in the German fandom. I never intended to give my personal views on happenings, every discussion I began was based on the manga and what he gives us. But most of the time, I'm confronted with ignorance and words like bias or so.

You remember when Suki did his New Years Fact Checking or whatever he called it? He explained some stuff and BAMM, everyone believed him, no big deal. Now I do the same, I explain to you guys what Enton, Senjutsu and all that stuff is, all based on the manga and everything, but in return I get "discussions" as seen on the Blaze Release talk page.

If it was a random fan who wanted to tell us otherwise because he simply doesn't know better, I'd do it like you and not start a big discussion. But I am by no means a random fan. As I said before, I'm Seelentau, I know my stuff and I believe you guys should trust me a little more, instead of telling me to go and beat dead dolphin horse babies or whatever.

Anyways, I think we need to find a new calm. I originally intended to be it, but apparently, I'm not suited for it. So what do we do? I don't wanna go the current road any longer (or at all). • Seelentau 愛 議 22:00, June 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * If I may offer a solution: maybe Seelentau should replace Suki as a sysop in the capacity of the site's translator. Considering Suki has, in effect, left the wiki, I think this is the most appropriate thing to do. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 22:02, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem we are having is that everyone's ego is damn too high and each one of us wants to be right and command the others. That's pretty much all. Having had a single figure (Suki) that we followed had its pros imo. Because now, we all want to be Suki. To put it into better words: People demand democracy and want to overthrow the monarch. But once the rule is in their hands, they start fighting against each other--Elveonora (talk) 23:04, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, both of you for your feedback. The decision on who should be a sysop is not mine to make. That lies with Dantman.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 23:18, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ya, thank you guys for replying. But I don't think making me a Sysop is going to solve the core problem. It doesn't make me more correct than the rest of you guys or in any way better than you. I think the only little thing most of you need to understand is that I in fact see things as black and white when it comes to the manga. At least 95% of everything I write during discussions is based on what the manga gave us. That's also why I don't understand anyone who calls me biased or a fanboy. It could very well be that I'm blinded by myself or so, but if you really want to prove me wrong, calling me something or saying I beat things isn't the right way. I mean, we all work towards the same goal and when I present you guys a possible mistake, it's your job to prove me wrong, not prove why you're right or call me anything. For example, I wrote on the Blaze Release discussion

"that it was cast from one eye, and then manipulated with the other. - but that is not the case. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:38, June 25, 2014 (UTC)"

Now, I say that never happened and the easiest way to prove me wrong would simply be to give me a manga chapter where it happened. From there on, we could discuss further.

Another thing that comes to mind, again related to Blaze Release, is how some of you handle new information. Sasuke used no Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi, but a normal Kagutsuchi (whatever that is). Instead of accepting it as something new, you guys say that it's not something that needs to be discussed, for whatever reason. But I believe that it shines a new light on things. So what are we going to do? • Seelentau 愛 議 09:33, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * The main problem lies in the manga itself. I don't know how you guys see it, but in the past, everything that happened in the manga was easy to understand and document. Lately, there pops up so much stuff that's not explained completely or just gives flimsy hints towards things we already took for granted, so the the fans are forced to link the recent events with the "old knowledge" by themselves. Naturally, people interpret certain key elements different than others, and that's where discussions start. Just look at the ridiculously long debates about "Naruto having Magma Release", "Naruto and the 9 Tailed Beasts inside him in general", "Kaguya's eye being a Sharingan or not", "Blaze Release being something we did not think about before or so..." and it goes on and on and on.
 * Of course it's a problem how quickly discussions start to get out of control. I deliberately refrain myself from participating in any of these debates as I know that I will quickly lose any motivation to come to the wiki itself - just because it never goes forward. To spreak in fanboy-language, it reminds me of Izanagi.
 * Making somebody an admin for this reason is again not legit enough for me, but that's not for me to decide either. For future discussions with seemingly no end: A good action in my eyes is to, for once, not continue until every participant hates each other even more while there's still no consensus reached, but instead agree on a way to write down the discussed subject in a way everybody can agree on. If that's not the case, write down both versions as possible probabilities. I know this wiki does not include speculation, but a conclusion based on the own argumentation is also speculation in its own way. I mean, nobody can't really say what's going on in Kishimoto's head, right?
 * The argument "I can't go back on what I said as I am 100% sure it's right" is also no warranty for a victory in the discussion. The opposing participants think so just as well. What gives anybody the right to think that his or her thoughts are superior to others? Norleon (talk) 10:36, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau: I don't recall anybody has called you a fanboy. The term get's thrown at everyone else though. That being said, in response to "that it was cast from one eye, and then manipulated with the other. - but that is not the case" comment, when we first see the Kagutsuchi, in chapter 464 states that he Sasuke casts the Amaterasu with his left eye, then manipulates it with the right, which we see in what basically amounts to slow motion in this current chapter. Unless of course you mean to tell me that what has been in the chapter for damn near four years is wrong then by the Old, this wiki we have much much bigger problems. And to a "normal" Kagutsuchi because it dropped the prefix, I will point out to this technique which I was told over and over had to have Wind Release, despite not having it as a suffix.
 * So what are we going to do? At this point, I want to us to stop assuming everything we see is new unless it is actually explained as being new. We have a wealth of information that Kishimoto has already provided us, if he isn't explaining anything now, then we must assume, and I know you really really hate using that word, that it is because we should already know it. But I've stated this 100 times before and naturally that blanket decision is not mine alone to make, but you know that.
 * @Norleon: Izanami. But I see your point. That would be the best course of action, it opens itself up to other issues. For example, picking at the "Naruto and the tailed beasts" thing, that got stupid when it was brought up that because Minato also had a talking tailed beast him in, that that made him a jinchuriki, but when Naruto had 9 of basically the same thing, he wasn't. Then it spiraled into stupid from there. Adjusting it to be more ambiguous could work, but then by that same token it would have to be adjusted to be just as ambiguous for Minato, and so on. And that doesn't get into the realm of infoboxes, categories, ect. The idea is sound and damn may even work. But such ambiguity would have ripples at everything.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:41, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm all for us stating more possibilities in the articles. Why are we so afraid of doing things such as: "Note: Hagoromo proclaimed that his mother has power of the Sharingan, while an identical eye of Madara's was called a Rinnegan. Sasuke's eye which is similar is also a Rinnegan. Currently it's unknown which is true" etc.--Elveonora (talk) 11:46, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * @TU: I don't know if I was called it directly, but I was called it indirectly, I think. But that doesn't bother me.
 * Regarding the Blaze Release thing, you're right (as far as I remember the Japanese text). So if he uses his right eye to only manipulate it, then how do you explain the instances where he has only his right eye opened? The fight against Obito comes to mind. Also, the Lava Rasen Shuriken itself is ambiguous, I or instance say it's not Wind Release. So I wouldn't count it as an example. (See? That's what discussions are. Not the horse beating thing.)
 * How does one explain something to be new? Isn't it new if it simply has never happened before? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:20, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Flames created off panel or "quick" (thus still off panel). We don't always see Naruto creating the necessary Wind Release: Rasengan or see him go through the motions of producing shadow clones, but we know he's doing that. But I do not plan to go through the Blaze Release confusion in my talk page. Consider it me losing if that'll make you feel better.
 * But what can be considered new has to actually be new. Small variation of we already know, isn't something totally world breaking new. If it was, damn near more than half of just about everything we see could be labeled a new technique, new trait, new anything, simply because it wasn't 1:1 of what we have seen before. As I stated before, regrettably using the Blaze Release I just said I didn't want to use again, we know his right eye manipulates the flames while his left creates it. What we don't need is two dedicated panels every time Sasuke points black fire arrows at something. Just as we don't need something of 4 panels for Naruto preparing a Rasenshuriken, parts of techniques are cut out to save time, because Kishimoto expects us to know what's happening because he already showed us it before. But something is new when it is actually something that has never happened before. If something happens and we are literally unable to go "Ok in the past, X happened so Y", taking into account the very first use of something, subsequent usage and the like, then that is something new. What we saw with Sasuke wasn't new because we know that is how it has always worked, we just have to use the dreaded common sense to understand that every piece of it is likely not going to be drawn down because it was essentially been a waste.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:47, June 27, 2014 (UTC)