Talk:Madara Uchiha

Hashirama Face Implant
Like, it's gone.--Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 17:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * When Kaguya left his body, it probably reverted back to his base form. Any alien entities, no matter how well ingrained, probably left with her. I'm gonna assume the Rinnegan is gone too. --Atrix471 (talk) 18:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Likely an oversight--Elveonora (talk) 19:09, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd wait for the next chapter. If Madara reappeared, it means he has still some role to play.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 19:18, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * He is dead, without the slightest doubt. Seriously, I'm Madara's fan too, but why some people can't get over his death? Yes, it was half-assed, but it happened.--Elveonora (talk) 19:22, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elveo, Multiple screenshots were shown without the Hashi face implant. Why think it's an oversight? -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 19:25, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elveo, I'm not saying Madara isn't dead, just that he, either his body or soul, has some role to play, otherwise Kishi wouldn't have bothered to make the Kages teleport his body back to Earth as well.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 19:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's be honest, Hashirama just wanted to be with his bestie one last time... --Atrix471 (talk) 19:29, August 28, 2014 (UTC)

Dead?
How can we be absolutely sure Madara's dead? He could just be unconscious. --Mandon (talk) 19:32, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * We aren't, people just like to make assumptions. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:33, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, we are. When a Tailed Beast gets extracted, the jinchuuriki dies. In addition, he was already dead the moment Kaguya took over--Elveonora (talk) 19:36, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Generally speaking, when someone is stabbed and their body is used as a medium for the revival of another, they are dead. Considering that Madara's body was used as a medium to revive Kaguya, I would be very surprised if he's still alive. For now, Presumed Deceased is staying, unless a new chapter states he isn't. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 19:37, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not only Kaguya took over which killed him, but also it is the manga's rule that extraction of a Tailed Beast kills the jinchuuriki.--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Obito got impaled through the chest and later forced to use a jutsu that guarantees death and he still lived through it. Besides, Madara's wounds are all gone now.. it's very possible that he's currently alive and will get a proper death scene in the next chapter. --Mandon (talk) 19:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't do "I think it's possible" the difference is that Obito had Black Zetsu, Gedo Mazo and Naruto's Jesus hand to keep him alive.--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Please, we all know Kishi physically cannot leave a villain die without being redeemed in some way. If Madara dies, how will TNJ work? --Atrix471 (talk) 19:49, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * All I'm saying is we can and should wait until there's absolutely no doubt he's dead. That's why we listed him as "Presumed Deceased" even after his existence was seemingly wiped out with Kaguya's revival. You've been told this time and time again Elv but for the millionth time, stop jumping to conclusions and editing articles with conjecture. Remember a few years ago when you opted for us to wait a week when Tobi was unmasked, even though all the evidence pointed to him being Obito? I hate it when people hold others to a standard they can't adhere to.. so like I said, let's just wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think people are forgetting that the Tailed Beast Extraction killing the user rule doesn't apply too Jinchuriki's of the Shinju it only leaves them paralyzed.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 22:06, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * If he really is dead, how can he be summoned? You are too quick to assume that Madara is dead, just like when you turned out to be wrong about Obito. Also, it was never confirmed that he died when Kaguya took over. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:15, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Thdying, that's not what was stated. The reason Hagoromo survived was because he extracted only the chakra while leaving the body of the Ten-Tails inside of him, which kept him alive but resulted in paralysis.
 * @Patsoumas, Pains are corpses, they can be summoned. Kunai and Shuriken are inanimate, they can be summoned, your point?--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Pain's corpses are reanimated through the power of the Rinnengan, and the Kunai & Shuriken are summoned through scrolls, not Summoning Technique. When a person dies, his chakra disappears, so how would Madara be summoned if he is dead? And also, I don't think that it is stated that the Jinchuriki dies immediately after the Bijuu is extracted. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 10:09, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * The only point that matters is that Madara isn't definitively confirmed to be deceased, therefore we can't call him deceased. --Mandon (talk) 18:31, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except he is. Do I need to slap the chapter and page onto your face where Zetsu says how it's a rule that when a Tailed Beast is extracted, the jinchuuriki dies? Seriously, I like Madara too, but this fanboy bias is getting out of control. How you feel towards a certain character shouldn't affect what you want to go or don't want to go into his/her article.--Elveonora (talk) 18:35, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Didn't seem to kill Killer B all that much. He's alive until he we know he's dead, though death is likely. "Presumed Deceased".--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 18:56, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * You beat me, well done, okay then. (I wonder how B survived though, the tentacle things makes me go crazy)--Elveonora (talk) 19:00, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Need I remind you Elv that Madara still had the gedo statue inside of him [or Kaguya] when the TB's were extracted? That rule doesn't apply here. Madara was never explicitly confirmed to be dead, therefore we wait. --Mandon (talk) 19:38, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * He didn't/doesn't have the "statue"--Elveonora (talk) 19:48, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * He did when the Tailed Beasts were extracted, thus removing the certainty of death. --Mandon (talk) 20:55, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yin-Kurama stated that Ten-Tails' jinchūriki survive the tailed beasts' extraction only if they have the Demonic Statue in their body because of its strong life force – meaning, if the Statue is extracted as well, the jinchūriki's case is no different from any other tailed beast's jinchūriki.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 21:06, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think you both need to re-read the chapter because you don't seem to remember the order of events. It wasn't Statue > Tailed beasts. It was Tailed Beasts > Statue, meaning the tailed beasts were extracted from Kaguya/Madara while the statue was still inside them and then the statue/Kaguya spat out Madara, meaning the effects of the statue are still in place. --Mandon (talk) 00:43, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * There are no lasting effects. The "statue" keeps them alive only for as long as it's inside, not once it's extracted as well.--Elveonora (talk) 12:39, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * If the jinchuriki dies immediately after the Biju/Gedo Mazo is removed, why was Obito still alive after Black Zetsu left his body? He had the Gedo Mazo & the 9 Biju extracted from his body AND he had used the Rinne Tensei. I'm sure Madara will eventually die after the extraction, but nothing says that he is already dead. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 15:33, August 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * And as we all said, Madara was still alive. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 11:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * To say 2 sentences, thus was dead.--Elveonora (talk) 11:40, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * He was still alive, and died after that. It's different being dead & close to death. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:36, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now he's very obviously dead, can we stop this discussion and update the infobox? --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 12:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not saying he isn't dead now, I'm saying that he wasn't dead in the previous chapter, as some were hurried to assume. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 12:45, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

There's no need to pick at people with hindsight. Let it simply be a lesson to people not to jump the gun when they think somebody's dead. Nobody was denying he'd probably die in the next chapter anyways. --Mandon (talk) 17:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Storm Release is not his kekkei genkai
He gained it by becoming the Juubie's jinchuriki, just like Rosh and Naruto gained Lava Release from Son, its not a kekkei genkai it's a tailed beast skill.--Hunter4522 (talk) 23:26, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't know for sure either way, you can't be so sure.--Elveonora (talk) 09:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * The ones that posses all bijuu chakras can create the truth seeking ball and have all the chakra natures and kekkei genkai--Hunter4522 (talk) 15:11, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, no such thing was stated in official translation about all kekkei genkai. Fire, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Wood, Yin, Yang were attributed to Kaguya, with Wood possibly being an error, supposed to be Water instead.--Elveonora (talk) 18:30, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * So how is Wood Release a kekkei genkai? Is it because the Uchiha and Senju are both descended from the Sage of the Six Paths? I thought Wood Release was only a Senju kekkei genkai... Banan 14  kab 

Wind release
I thought Madara's wind release was anime only so why is that caption gone?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 20:07, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because he used Storm Release, which is made up of Wind and Water. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:11, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * That would be Ice... Lightning and Water you mean. You should go to bed :P--Elveonora (talk) 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * ...hmph. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:12, August 31, 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, I believe we should put anime only.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 23:00, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, why was the anime only tag removed?-- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contribs) 00:37, September 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hey shouldn't the Storm Release be listed in Madara's kekkei genkai, after all it is an advance chakra nature and a bloodline trait. I mean I know Madara only acessed it through like the six paths senjutsu but still it should be added its a form of kekkei genkai. i'm not saying that we should list his storm release jutsu as a kekkei genkai, but just simply put it in his infobox. --Tuxedo12 (talk) 04:38, September 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't know how he could use it. Stating it was because of jinchuuriki status is no more speculative than stating it was because of kkg, because at the end of the day, we don't know--Elveonora (talk) 08:24, September 3, 2014

(UTC)

Did Kaguya say the Truthseeking ball is made of all elements? If that's true than Madara's a wind release user.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:13, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * There's a still an argument going if the description was about her own alone or in general--Elveonora (talk) 21:15, September 4, 2014 (UTC)

Loss of Rinnegan
Since when, I wonder, does a loss of Hashirama's face mean Madara has lost his Rinnegan, when he didn't have that when he awoke those eyes? Thats not confirmed anywhere. Nor is it conformed that a loss of hashirama's cells at all would mean he lost the Rinnegan. Its a kekkei genkai and was in his blood from the time he awakened it. (The Fox King (talk) 21:59, September 4, 2014 (UTC))
 * The manga made it quite clear, Madara lost all his enhancements before death. If he still had Hashirama's cells, they would have helped him survive like they did with Obito. If he still had his Rinnegan, Mdara's eyes would have still shown it. The Rinnegan was only awoken by a combination of Indra and Asura's chakra, and Madara lost Asura's chakra thus his eyes reverted back to the state they were before. Its really quite simple. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:14, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara is able to switched between Rinnegan and other dojutsu at will, and may just have been too weak to keep it active at death. Again, we don't know he lost all of hashirama's cells, just the face, which wasn't there at the start. Plus Rinnegan isn't an enhancement for Madara, its naturally his. --The Fox King (talk) 22:19, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Saiyaman No, that really is quite stupid. Madara's eyes did exactly what Itachi's did when he died and turned back into their normal form. Madara awakened the Rinnegan. It doesn't just disappear. When they run out of chakra, their eyes go back to normal, because the eyes require chakra to remain active. So, before you try again, SuperSaiyaMan, you are not to add anything about Madara losing the Rinnegan because he didn't. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 22:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Uh, we see the Sharingan still in his eyes meaning that comparison doesn't make sense, Ten-Tailed Fox. The tomoe were still there. And Hagoromo made it clear how a Rinnegan is awoken: Indra and Asura's chakra mixes together, bringing out Hagoromo's. If Madara still possessed Hashirama's cells, why did he die so quickly compared to Obito? --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:24, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Obito had things like the Gedo Statue, Black Zetsu, a higher concentration of Hashirama's cells, and Naruto's "Jesus" hand keeping him alive all that time at different points. Thats why. Madara had, at the end from the looks of it, at best just the cells he stuck in his chest originally, which again we don't know he lost and none of those other things. --The Fox King (talk) 22:27, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Um, @SuperSaiyaMan, where are the tomoe? I see no Sharingan in his eyes at all. They just look blank. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 22:30, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Page 9, bottom right panel. You see the Tomoe in the edges. Though if Ten Tailed Fox doesn't want it to be put down, okay. Maybe in the next chapters we'll get some confirmation since no one in their right mind would want those Rinnegan to stay around with Orochimaru being there. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:34, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * I've already seen the page, I know what I said when I typed in "They just look blank." Those aren't tomoe. It looks like he used Izanagi twice or something. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 22:39, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * If the Rinnengan disappears when Indra's & Asura's chakra are not combined, how could Nagato, who only has Indra's through the eyes, keep the Rinnengan active? --Patsoumas1995 (talk) 23:21, September 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think its due to being a Uzumaki and Senju descendant he was able to maintain the implanted Rinnegan, given both clans are descended from Asura. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:40, September 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * I suppose that's why he was called 3rd Six Paths despite it having been just an implant --Elveonora (talk) 10:12, September 5, 2014 (UTC)

Dead 3 times
Madara has never died 3 times during the entire series, but 2. He died the first time when he was an old man, he got revived during the war by Obito's Rinne Tensei and died for his second and last time when Kaguya was defeated and Madara had the Jubi extracted from his body. I red over there that some users are taking madara's status when Kaguya took over his body as dead, which is not right. He just was unconscious, deeply inside Kaguya. And the irrefutable fact that he had never died after this event, despite some characters of the series thinking the opposite (Tobirama's attempt to use Edo Tensei), is clearly given to us 2 chapters ago; Kaguya defeated, and Madara ALIVE sharing his last moments with Hashirama. Please, we have to begin to use common sense when we create discussion articles. Have that trivia note about his deaths erased, it's not true. --KILLERBEE479 (talk) 19:07, September 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * The first time he died at Hashirama's hands and revived himself through Izanagi. The Second as an old man. The Third time was after extracting the Tailed Beasts.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 19:11, September 10, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release
is it safe to assume that fire is his affinity, and maybe add it to the infobox...based on the fact that uchiha members have affinity for & proficiency with it...also for the most part of the series he used this nature more over the others... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:50, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * No assumptions. For example according to the anime, Sasuke's affinity is Lightning. And yeah, I know manga > anime, but we can't ignore the anime. But just in case the anime is correct in Lightning being Sasuke's affinity, then it may be possible for someone to have 2 affinities. In fact, according to the anime, advanced nature kekkei genkai = having affinity for 2 natures thus being capable to merge them. They pulled this outta their arses, because Kishi said no such thing, but again, in case they are right, then Sasuke's affinities may be both Fire and Lightning and taking the kekkei genkai part into consideration, it would explain Blaze Release :D :D :D--Elveonora (talk) 11:56, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * There can't be two affinities, because that would not be what an affinity is. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:59, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Tell that to Studio Pierrot :P In fact, there may be 3 (Kekkei Tota) according to them. Now I mention it, I don't think we have documented this anywhere, we simply ignored it I guess--Elveonora (talk) 12:03, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

well if someone has affinity for 2 natures or more then it's not necessary to put it for both natures at all...but if someone like naruto or kakashi has an affinity for one nature & uses that one nature more that other natures as in kakashi's case then it's right to put affinity for that nature in the infobox...I'm suggesting the same for madara's fire...and maybe obito too now that I think about it...since he too hade fire as his original nature and used it more that other natures...and possibly any other character with these conditions...like...idk temari for example...or kitsuchi...or earth for onoki...hope I've made my point clear... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:06, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Frequency of nature's usage isn't necessarily a determinant of an affinity.--Elveonora (talk) 12:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

then what is... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:11, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Affinity means natural talent towards a certain nature... a genetic predisposition if you will.--Elveonora (talk) 12:14, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

doesn't madara have that natural talent & genetic predisposition towards fire?...based on what V've seen from him in the manga... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:21, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Likely, but we weren't told Fire is his affinity, so we can't assume so--Elveonora (talk) 12:23, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

sooo...V R putting the term affinity for only 2 characters in the entire series in this wiki & not for other characters with similar conditions?...ok --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:26, September 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because we were told what those characters' affinities are.--Elveonora (talk) 12:29, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Changes
I think we should remove Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique from Madara's jutsu list. Just because he forced Obito to perform it doesn't mean Madara can use the jutsu. Obito can use the jutsu not Madara.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 21:39, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan in the first place. And also, the Outer Path is a derived technique of the Six Paths Technique. Read the article I just linked. Anyone who can use the SPT has access to the powers in the article. Including the Outer Path. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 21:46, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not saying Madara can't use the Outer Path, I'm saying he can't be a user of the Outer Path: Heavenly Life jutsu. Madara didn't use the jutsu, he forced Obito to perform it. Therefore I think we should remove samsara of heavely life jutsu from Madara's jutsu inbox. Madara can use the outer path since he can perform the demonic statue chains. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 22:19, September 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * My point is, the Six Paths Technique grants those abilities. If Madara can use the Six Paths Technique, he can use the Outer Path, and therefore can use the Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique. He won't be removed. And like I said, Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 22:32, September 19, 2014 (UTC)

And plus, of course Madara was using it, with his artificial Rinnegan and real Rinnegan through Obito. You can't convince anyone that didn't happen, that it was all Obito and had nothing to do with Madara. And I'll say it again, Obito was using Madara's Rinnegan. Of course Madara can use it, all of the powers Obito and Nagato used come from him. -- WindStar7125   22:45, September 19, 2014 (UTC) Just because you can use the Outer Path doesn't mean you can use all of the derivative jutsus from it. As a rinnegan user, you have access to all of the rinnegan powers and therefore you are a user of every path power. However just because you know them doesn't mean you can use all of the derived techniques. If you claim all the powers of Nagato and Obito are Madara's you are saying Madara should be a user of Shinra Tensei which he hasn't demonstrated. Madara never demonstrated Samsara Jutsu on his own. He only forced Obito to perform that jutsu on himself.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 07:19, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

Forcing Obito use it means Madara can use it--Elveonora (talk) 10:26, September 20, 2014 (UTC)

How does forcing someone to perform a jutsu make that person a user? Madara could had been mentally forcing Obito to give in to his wish? --Rinneganmaster (talk) 01:50, September 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * You can't delete discussions unless they are forum talk or theories. This discussion does not violate the deletion policy nor the talkpage policy. This is the property of the wiki community. Once you make it, you can't delete it, otherwise you'll be violating the policies. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 01:56, September 21, 2014 (UTC)

I accidentally clicked deletion category by accident. But my question for this discussion is how does forcing a user to perform a jutsu makes that person a user too? Madara never used it, it was Obito.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 02:02, September 21, 2014 (UTC) How does madara forcing obito to perform the jutsu make madara a user too?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 22:39, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Rinnegan Ownership
So in Madara's Rinnegean subsection it says that he can use the Rinnegan to their full potentail/ability because the eyes are originally his. While I agree this makes sense the real question here is that is this correct as Madara technically had Izuna's eyes at the point. So the eyes weren't "originally his", but he did naturally awaken them. I don't know I just thought it was best to discuss it here first before making changes.  Banan 14  kab  20:49, October 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Nevermind this post. I understand what was meant by the sentence.  Banan 14  kab  07:23, October 21, 2014 (UTC)