Forum:Début Issues

I was wondering if we are following a certain guidline when it comes to determining the début of a character. Why is Sakumo's début in chapter 425 and not in chapter 240? Why is Deidara's in chapter 247 and not in chapter 238? Why is Madara's in chapter 280 and not in chapter 217? Why is Yagura's in chapter 507 and not in chapter 420? Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?

I want answers dammit! (>_<)

—ShounenSuki (talk 23:29, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * People changed them I would guess. They are supposed to be listed as their first appearance, not their first important appearance.


 * You are on your own about the birds I guess.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:38, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've probably changed a number of those. The first time a character does something seems more useful than the first time a character appears, usually only partially, in a single panel. This is much more beneficial in cases like Kakuzu, whose cameo is almost 100 chapters before his proper appearance. ~SnapperTo 23:44, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * However, that isn't really what a début is. A début is the first time a character appears, regardless of what they do. At least, that's what I think.
 * That's why I created this topic. To get some clarity on the subject and to make sure there is a decent, consistent guideline.
 * @TheUltimate3: The birds... They sit outside my window... Watching me...... Biding their time. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:20, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * The way I see it, we could list their very first appearance, regardless of what they do, we could list their first meaningful appearance, or both. Not very fond of the both option. Manga wise, I think that splash page debuts should only be used if the character doesn't have a very first or meaningful appearance. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:55, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * So, maybe find a less-inviting synonym for "debut"?
 * Other cases to consider: Obito/Rin; Tsunade; Nagato; Itachi; Sai and Yamato (anime); the First, Second, and Fourth Hokage; Gamabunta. ~SnapperTo 01:12, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * On another issue, I was under the impression that since manga/anime coincide that was the reason both were listed in the debut of the infobox. When they appear in a game or a movie, I don't think listing a debut is a good use of infobox space. S im A nt 01:24, August 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * @Snapper2, Omnibender: I know of no other term that could fit the "first meaningful appearance" definition. Personally, I would simply go for the very first appearance, regardless of what they do. It's more objective and marks the characters' very first appearance in the series, which is quite an important milestone, even if it is only on a splash page. For example, we could say that Yagura's début was in chapter 507, which was the first chapter he actually did anything. However, he was already quite an important character in the manga since chapter 458, when it was revealed he had complete mastery over his tailed beast. He has been a named character with background and plot importance since the second artbook came out, which is more than we can say of certain characters that appeared in the actual manga. He was apart of the series since the splash page in chapter 420.
 * Which début do we pick? Which one is the most important? Without a clear guideline like "the very first appearance," we'll be opening the door to endless debates and revert wars.
 * @Simant: I agree that the game and film débuts are confusing and cluttering, to say the least. The games and films simply do not work like the manga and anime, so a list of appearances would fit better. Maybe an automated one that is hidden by default?
 * —02:01, August 27, 2010 (UTC)