Talk:Rasengan

Asura
(This is probably on another talkpage or something but screw it). Thanks to the sh!tty anime filler, we're in a bit of a bind. Asura used a technique that looks like a Rasengan, works like a Rasengan, sounds like the Rasengan, probably even smells like the Rasegan and may allegedly be the Rasengan. While Asura potentially using the Rasengan comes in direct conflict with the fact that it was canonically established that Minato invented the technique, another argument was also brought up that Asura using this technique happened only in the anime, and is technically non-canon. So, the question is, should Asura be listed or not listed as a user of the Rasengan? 01:09, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bumping so this doesn't get drowned from my current mass editing spree. 01:37, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * List Asura as anime only user. Anime does not override established canon facts. Sometimes the first person to do this and to do that is also proven false as the series progresses, for example, Itachi said that Madara was the first one to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan but later on in series we find out that Indra also awakened the swirly pattern MS before him, here canon overrides canon. Since we are documenting both manga and anime we have to mention them, Asura's orb looks like Rasengan variant and Indra's lightning has chirping sound so he used chidori variant.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 02:04, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Technically, Itachi said Madara was the first Uchiha to awaken MS, if I'm not mistaken. Indra predates the Uchiha, so Itachi was still technically right. I see no issue listing Asura as an anime-only Rasegan user, but I don't recall Indra's Lightning Release having the Chidori chirp in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:46, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh okay. And about Indra's Lightning release there was Chidori chirp when he killed his two followers. I compared the sounds of 3 video clips and they matched Sasuke's Chidori sound. Hagoromo's Lightning release has sparking sound not like Chidori, so Hagoromo doesn't have it and Indra has it.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 13:41, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Techniques can appear identical and still be different techniques. Take Water Release: Water Trumpet & Water Release: Wild Water Wave for example. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:55, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

I see everyone to not list Asura as a user, anime-only or not, why because is the manga, anime and databook, it all said Minato was the sole creator. Damn anime adaptors messing up yet again. --Rai 水 (talk) 04:02, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not listing Asura as a user is like removing all non-Uchiha users of Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique, since canon dictates that is an Uchiha-only jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:05, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Mmm hmmm. Well we also don't know if that is even the Rasengan. We could just mention Asura using a similar technique to the Rasengan in the trivia and show the image. --Rai 水 (talk) 05:04, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bump. 15:44, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * He should be listed as a user. It may not have been named as a Rasengan, but it looks like one, is formed like one and sounds like one. I thought we had the whole "anime/movie/manga" only tags in the infobox precisely for when things like this happened, why aren't we using them? --Sajuuk 17:01, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because Asura having Rasengan makes no sense whatsoever? At least by having a mention in the trivia we anknowledge that Asura used something similiar to Rasengan in the anime. Let us not be as lazy and incompetent as Studio Pierrot, okay? --JouXIII (talk) 17:11, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * I also support the option of keeping this Asura's "Rasengan" as a trivia point without adding him as a user. We can't even call his jutsu a Rasengan for sure, even if it looks like one, its actual use and function really differ from what we've seen from the regular Rasengan before. It's a messy case, so I think trivia is the best possible option to keep the info in the article, but avoid the confusion of Asura preceding Minato, Rasengan's long-established creator, in using it. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 17:35, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

So is everyone or most in agreement to put that Asura uses a similar technique as the Rasengan in the trivia section of the respective page instead listing him a user of it, and more so the creator, which contradicts well quite a lot. --Rai 水 (talk) 17:03, July 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I just stumbled across this but I believe he should be listed as an anime only user of the Rasengan. The fact is, it happened and the technique Asura used is by definition and functionally the same as the Rasengan. There's a lot of non-canon things that have been added on other articles, even more bizarre things from the movies and filler arcs. And for that reason, Asura should be listed as an anime only user of the Rasengan. General Heed (talk) 19:31, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except, again, Asura has nothing to do with Rasengan. As stated in both manga and databooks, it is Minato that created Rasengan, and that's centuries after Asura. Asura having it doesn't make sense whatsoever and is against canon so much it isn't funny. Trivia point is more than enough. So again, let us not be as lazy and incompetent as Studio Pierrot, okay? --JouXIII (talk) 20:10, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned before, this is similar to the "first MS user" situation. Itachi said Madara and Izuna were the first Uchiha to awaken MS. He is technically correct, as Indra, while a MS user, was not an Uchiha. To me, what Asura used was clearly a Rasengan, though not named as such at the time, and the jutsu was simply redeveloped by Minato, Asura's use simply being forgotten to history, in the anime only of course. Chidori and Lightning Cutter are both considered Kakashi's original jutsu, though chronologically, what the Third Raikage did is functionally and conceptually the same thing, just stronger. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, Indra and Uchiha clan are at least related, unlike Asura and Minato. Also, trying to justify lazy and incompetent writing of Studio Pierrot will only make us look like lazy and incompetent and I would like to think we're better than that. So again, trivia point is more than enough. --JouXIII (talk) 21:40, August 10, 2016 (UTC)