Talk:Tobirama Senju

The academy
i don't think tobirama founded the academy because how he found it but you can clearly see in manga while hashirama telling sasuke his way what is a village and shinobi somewhere after madara death you can see the academy was found while hashirama was alive. also he told madara his dreams about that children is given mission to match and to grow their skills. I will say tobirama created the police. he also didn't found konoha it was hashirama with madara told that you can see everything it was madara name it. Tobirama also created the chunin exams. please help me to understand all details.

Next time please create a heading so I won't have to do it for you, and also sign your post please, Tobirama did create the academy, this could of been done when he was not Hokage It doesn't have to be when he was Hokage (but that has created confusion with the latest chapter but i won't to into that) and yes he did create the police force and he did not found Konohagakure as that was his brother Hashirama and madara and yes he created the chunin exams most of what you said Is included in the article I'll ask other members of the wiki about my point which is in brackets as I'm also not sure -- Jmootam 1999 16:43, April 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * It was never said he created it when he was Hokage, he was simply credited with creating it. When was never stated.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:35, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not true, it was about 43 years before QB attack, thus circa 60 years prior to current events. Thus even if he wasn't Hokage when he did, it was 5 years after the village's founding which means Hashi lived to see it. Possibly Hashi passed on the hat to Tobirama long before his death, but that contradicts timeline thus let's settle on that Tobirama founded the training facility without a hat (for now)--Elveonora (talk) 18:58, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Flying Thunder God
When did the chapter actually say that Tobirama knew Hiraishin and that he wasn't bound by the same limitation as Minato? I didn't catch it. admittedly, Tobirama mentioned that "we" couldn't use it while they were bound (since Orichimaru wouldn't allow it, I presume), but it doesn't actually say he could use it. Skitts (talk) 22:46, April 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Mangastream scanlation is clearer. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:59, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Well, time to add Flying Thunder God Technique to the jutsu section of the infobox, right? General Awesomo 00:09, April 11, 2013 (UTC) It's already there--Elveonora (talk) 00:13, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama and Minato use Flying Thunder God to teleport the  Kage they touched on the shoulder to their respective mountain Heads.--Hordy4040 (talk) 03:30, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

He used Hiraishin to warp himself and Hashirama to their stone heads, just like Minato used with himself and Hiruzen. So it needs to be added to Tobirama's Jutsu list. 96.241.55.117 (talk) 02:11, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's already in his jutsu list--Elveonora (talk) 11:51, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

No it is not in his jutsu list.. that's Flying Thunder God Slash, not Flying Thunder God. So it still needs to be added.ItachiWasAHero (talk) 10:39, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Gosh.... there are many errors with the jutsu infoboxes. It will come sooner or later. Relax, he's listed as a user, right? That's what counts. JaZZBaND (talk) 10:44, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

The current way the infobox is broken down, jutsu don't appear if they have appeared in both the manga and anime, but the user has only used them in one medium. FTG has appeared in both manga and anime, but since Tobirama has yet to be revealed a user in the anime, it doesn't show up. For example, neither Tobirama nor Hashirama have Bringer-of-Darkness in their infoboxes, because the genjutsu was used by one in the anime, and by the other in the manga. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:31, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Greatest Water User Revisited
The article lists a reference for this statement that says no such thing and then states that it shouldn't be changed. If he really has been referred to as such somewhere, shouldn't the reference indicate it? The databooks don't seem to say he was the greatest of all time, just highly skilled and known for his usage. Was it in the anime? Elsewhere?--BeyondRed (talk) 06:09, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

I don't have any problem with Tobirama being considered the best water user, I just think its bad form to use out-of-universe wording the specifically states this is a manga/anime. I think we should change "in the series" to something like "in history" or "to ever live".Steveo920 00:40 August 28, 2013

I know this is an old topic, but I agree with the first statement. There is no statement about Tobirama being the greatest water user neither in the manga nor in the Databook. What the ANBU said is "unbelievable" I don't see how does that make Tobirama the strongest at the water jutsus? Especially that everyone and their mothers does their water jutsus without any source now. RexRex-05 (talk) 09:42, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

I understand what your saying but then you have to look at it in a different perspective, besides most of it is based off what we see from him but not other characters. You you have to take into account that he was able to dispel a high power fire technique with a high powerful water technique and then follow that up with another high powerful technique. And in recent months it was learned he wasn't even at full power but he was still able to do all that and we even saw a glimpse of his water style recently when he cut through the Ten-Tail branches. And that was with a small high pressured wave while still not a full power and the only other people we saw cutting through it were Sasuke and the team of Hiruzen and Enma. And ontop of all this (possibly due to being a Senju) he is able to do all these high power water techniques with just on or two hand signs (and in the anime technique no signs at all). --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 11:31, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

newest chapters
newest chapters confirm he can use the flying thunder god, he even says the 4ths is better then his, so is it a data box error or is it not added for some reason?--208.124.127.18 (talk) 06:26, June 5, 2013 (UTC) never mind, he is listed on the jutsu's page so I am guessing its a databox error.
 * He never said 4th's is better than his though, learn reading comprehension, I like how people see only what they want to see.--Elveonora (talk) 11:53, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

the translation I read does say it was better then his. I have great reading comprehension also thank you, Elveonora. guess I will wait until it literally says, I used the flying thunder god technique. for it to get added. --208.124.127.18 (talk) 00:13, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * the translation I am reading says "fourth...looks like my shunshin pales in comparison to yours."--208.124.127.18 (talk) 01:47, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what every ones' and the raw said. Shunshin means body flicker though not Flying Thunder God which is Hiraishin.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 02:25, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like our anon overestimates his reading comprehension.--Elveonora (talk) 11:33, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Flying Thunder God is a Shunshin, when they are talking about Shunshin they refer Flying Thunder God. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:53, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't... read what Cerez wrote above--Elveonora (talk) 12:57, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes it is, it's the only technique that they could compare with each other, so they are referring to it as Shunshin, because Hiraishin is a Shunshin. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:00, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

What does any of this matter when Minato's speed is already established? We're down to arguing senseless technicalities now.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:31, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Is just to clarify a point, doesn't makes sense utilize basic Shunshin instead moving faster with Hiraishin, the Kunai used by Minato when he appeared in the battlefield showed that he was using Hiraishin, so the Shunshin they were referring was obviously Hiraishin. I am done here. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:44, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are done being wrong? Good to know. Minato arrived at the Alliance's location first because his Body Flicker is faster than the others' that's what Tobirama referred to, not the kunai--Elveonora (talk) 14:43, June 19, 2013 (UTC)

actually elveonora I didn't, I went back and it was redone as it usually is after a day as it usually is. but like dan. Faulkner said I am done here, the admins and users as this wiki are incompetent at their best. --208.124.127.18 (talk) 03:18, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

That was a good one, you should make a living out of your talent to amuse. Calling others incompetent won't make your testicles drop kiddo. Feel free to hit that big blue button up there and start your Naruto Fanon Wiki where you can be an example of competence to everyone by filling articles with what you falsely believe to be true.--Elveonora (talk) 11:46, June 20, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the first poster, they were talking about FTG, and calling it a shunshin. It's clear that from chapter 631, page 6 Tobirama stated that Minato's better than his. OF course it's obvious that he was talking about FTG, but just in case it's not obvious for some people, in chapter 637, page 15 Tobirama called Minato's FTG by saying shunshin. On chapter 650, page 5 and 8 he called his own FTG by saying a shunshin.Rex-05 (talk) 20:10, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Well just think about this. The FTG technique allows the user to teleport themselves from one place to another using the aid of seals. There's no being faster/better because it's already instantaneous, its what you can do with it. We have seen Minato use the technique to make Space-Time barriers and Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Participate Formula and the Mutually Instantaneous Revolving Technique in conjunction with Tobirama .Now Tobirama has been seen using the Flying Thunder God Slash and the Mutually Instantaneous Revolving Techniqus in conjunction with Minato. Now if you look at Minato's use, his dervied techniques. mostly use the use the technique in conjunction with his special kunai whereas Tobirama has never used them himself. So in a nutshell its logically he was referencing his versatility and skill with his special kunai and being able to think of putting the seals on the kunai instead of having to get in close to the oppnent and when you think it through it makes sense because you can't be better being instantaneous. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 21:26, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

That has already proven wrong in 2 ways. The first one which is the most obvious of the two is the fact that in chapter 641, page 11 Tobirama stated that using FTG via the clones is too slow which PROVE that the FTG CAN be slower. That of course according to both manga Panda, and Viz. The second thins is the fact that Hashi asked Tobirama to use FTG in chapter 627, page 12. Tobirama responded that they can't use FTG because they are bound at that moment. Now, if Minato's and Tobirama's FTG were as the same speed, they would have arrived at the exact same moment to the battlefield which is not the case. At least that's what I understood from all of that, I don't know about you. Rex-05 (talk) 21:54, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Well you did get me with the shadow clones I totally forgot about them but heres the tthing, you seem to forget. What I said about Minato having Flying thunder God Kunai is with the kunai he has more versatility with the technique unlike Tobirama who limited himself to only physically putting a seal on a person not other objects. So that doesn't make Minato's FTG anymore better than Tobirama's. Instantaneous=Instantaneous. The only thing better is his versitility with certain derived justu/weapon use, not with the technique not the technique itself. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 23:16, October 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Pardon me for pipping in with new devellopents on that front, but the latest chapter (661) actually shows Tobirama using FTG by marking a Kunai and teleporting while figthing Madara --Tzao (talk) 09:57, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Weapon?
Should it worth mentioning under his tools sections that he had a kunai when his soul was being removed, and that used a sword when fighting Izuna Uchiha?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:08, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Him using a sword is listed under Kenjutsu, not sure that the kunai is worth mentioning, since using it is a common skill that most ninja have. TricksterKing (talk) 22:14, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

Again, that sounds ok then.--JustaNobody (talk) 22:38, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

already mentioned?
the legacy that tobirama was doing in his lifetime, one of it was the ftg and minato using it in the 3rd war, why we don't add it??, edo tensei is already mentiond too, so why you add it in the legacy?. User:Abdulrahman Al-Otaibi 8/4/2013 08:38 PM UTC

Folding Arms

 * Tobirama had the habit of folding his arms — a trait he's had since his youth.

Because, folding one's arms is so unique a trait, it deserves mention. Right? --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 05:24, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well its not really very noteworthy and folding his arms doesn't do anything, ability wise. And so the only section I could think for it to be under is Trivia, but it is not very noteworthy, as I have already said. 06:27, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I know it's an old topic, but looking at this, I can't help but mention, it's a manga. Unlike real life, we're give still frames to tell the narrative. If, unlike other characters, Tobirama has been shown to regularly fold his arms, this makes it a trait more unique to him than others. This doesn't mean that everyone who folds their arms more than once has this trait, but if in the screentime he's had, he's mostly shown with his arms folded, it's a thing. Not to mention, if you take into consideration body language, having one's arms folded denotes a more defensive and guarded nature, such as Gaara before he lightened up, and given everything we know about Tobirama, yeah, this would seemingly be accurate. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:34, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Removed. It was added under the impression that it would be expanded upon later (as part of a technique) but that doesn't seem to be happening.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:51, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

I don't expect it to be part of a technique though, I just think it's a nod towards the fact that he''s a guarded individual. Could easily throw it in as a minor note in personality. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:58, March 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * Folding one's arms isn't unique and doesn't particularly show any sort of personality trait. Madara does it too. They're simply folding their arms. Leave it out of the article. It has no place there. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 23:28, March 15, 2014 (UTC)

Shadow Clone Technique
The Shadow Clone Technique is not listed amongst his jutsu, even though he displayed his mastery of it and stated that he was its creator. I'm not allowed to edit the infobox, so could someone who is add it to his jutsu list? Veenp (talk) 16:58, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * When somebody uses a technique, we ad the user in the techniques infobox. Then the technique appears in the characters infobox. However, we are currently having some problems with the system, but Tobirama has been added the the Shadow clone infobox. So it should appear when everything is fixed. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 17:02, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama never fought Madara for 24 Hours
Hashirama and Madara were the only two people who fought at that location, so it shouldn't be added that Tobirama also fought there.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 02:56, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * And yet, Tobirama and the other clan members were magically present. Or are you really going to tell us they all gathered in a circle and held hands while Hashirama and Madara duked it out. Tobirama was standing right off to the side of Hashirama in the flashback, has stated multiple times he often fought side by side with his brother, and there was explosive smoke everywhere around the battlefield. It is stated that he, along with his clan mates, and Hashirama, fought against Madara together; which is true based on what was shown in the manga. The end. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 03:03, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Λ Took the words right outta my mouth. ~ Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 03:46, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * TenTailedFox, you do realize that many points you brought up never happened in the chapter itself. The manga has Tobirama and other clan members talking with Hashirama over a defeated Madara. The manga never implies Madara fought the entire Senju Clan during that peace accord. You confused the battle before Tobirama killed Izuna with the one Madara had the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan for the first time which was a one on one fight.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 05:28, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

he has a point, it was never shown or stated the clan or tobirama was present during the battle between the two that lasted an entire day, only that they showed up near the end. also would seem pointless to bring them sense madara himself claims only hashirama can oppose him, and that anyone else would be trivial. wouldn't that just be asking for collateral damage bringing the clan along?--J spencer93 (talk) 05:42, August 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I know exactly what I'm talking about and got nothing confused whatsoever. Tobirama was there, there was fighting, and we can prove that he said he fought alongside his brother on many serious occasions, which this would count as one of, so unless you have something to prove he didn't fight, he did, because the manga blatantly shows him there alongside Hashirama. Once again, if you really intend to tell me the clan showed up to just twiddle their thumbs and sing Hashirama's praises while Hashirama and Madara blew each other to smithereens, I'm not buying it. He was present for the battle, that is mentioned in the article. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 06:24, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tobirama and the rest of the clan were present after the battle had ended. The battle opened up, with Hashirama framing it, as a one on one against Madara who had just achieved the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and activated his Susano'o. Now, why wouldn't Hashirama add during this story that the rest of the clan fought too? He framed it solely that it was a one on one duel between himself and Madara that lasted 24 hours. You did confuse the final battle between the brothers which was Hashirama and Tobirama vs Madara and Izuna on the vast battlefield with a bunch of explosions with both clans fighting around them. I'd use hyperlink but the site apparently won't allow outside links now.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 06:28, August 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm looking at the chapter right now. I don't need your hyperlinks, and unless what I'm looking at is some freak homonculus of photoshop, then all I see is Tobirama there. You're pulling at strings now. There is no indication when or where Tobirama and the rest of the clan arrived. You can't see the surroundings when the battle starts, it doesn't show any of the actual fighting, and it pans out when it shows the end, showing the clan surrounding the battlefield. That means that either A) they were present during the battle, or B) they showed up and stared blankly while these two tore each other's throats out, which is highly unlikely given the Senju and Uchiha's animosity. Again, he was at the battle, it is noted, it stays as is. You're wasting time arguing it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 06:32, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * ...even though Hashirama explicitly framed that final encounter before the truce between the Uchiha and the Senju was formed as a duel? The only thing you can claim is that the clan were present at the end of the battle, not during it. After all, if Madara was strong enough to fend off the entire Senju Clan, on top of Hashirama and Tobirama, why the hell wasn't he considered the strongest of his era?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 06:36, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * More to the point, TenTailedFox, Hashirama illustrates that ever since they were kids, himself and Madara had one on one duels. Check page 9 of chapter 624 where Hashirama indicates everytime he and Madara ever fought, it was one on one. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 06:53, August 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm done arguing this. I don't care how you want to say the battle was framed. Tobirama was there, as was the clan, they were shown there, the end. They were at the battle. They didn't arrive after the fact because they were already there when it ended. So its mentioned. Let it go. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 06:58, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * They were there at the end. That's it. Hashirama had every time he and Madara faced each other was a one on one affair. That's it. That's canon. And knowing Hashirama's personality-you actually think he'd let them get involved in this duel? --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 07:11, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

exactly ten tails, they were only shown at the end of the battle, never was it said they participated in it, which seems unlikely since hashirama and madara both constantly say they fought 1 on 1. there is the possibility that they were there and fought but it can not be confirmed as canon, so it must be left out.--J spencer93 (talk) 18:10, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

This time, I'm with Foxie on this one. Don't you hear how ridiculous it sounds? Why would lots of Senju Clan members just stood there? They must have been present all along, unless you think Hashi signaled them to come once the battle was over so they could shit on Madara's face to humiliate him or something for what he did to their friends and family. Also the two didn't fight all solo for sure, you purposely forgot Mito helping her husband out by swallowing a giant fox and other ways possibly. Your constant character bias is getting annoying SSM--Elveonora (talk) 20:28, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * How is it character bias? Hashirama framed every duel he had with Madara as a duel. They were the only ones who fought each other in every encounter. And Mito wasn't anywhere near the battle in Hashirama's final flashback, so that's a retcon. Its not character bias, its handling the wank that is being put out Elveonora.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 21:36, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

we don't know if they just stood there though, that battle was only like two panels, not even showing any fighting actually, then madara was laying on the ground. they could of been fighting other uchiha or something. but I did notice one thing that puts a little credit to ten tails statement...everyone in that picture has scuff marks them. so really idk, seems odd to state repeatedly that hashirama was the only one to literally be able to stand up to Madara (who called 5 kage at 1 time trivial) and yet here a group of senju clan are shown with hasirama sometime during or prior to the fight. also elveonora I have no clue what your talking about lol when did Mito swallow the fox? I think I missed something somewhere. my only point was it can not be said without a doubt obviously because its being discussed here with valid points on both sides, that the senju did or did not participate in that fight. but...as for your statement about calling the clan over...well there is 5 villages allied together around madara and hashirama fighting right now and no one is getting involved, even powerful ninja like might guy. seems no one wants a part in that fight. --J spencer93 (talk) 21:13, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

What retcon? We weren't shown the whole fight, re-read the chapters and notice a timeskip. She could have come, sealed Kurama into herself and departed away before Hash penetrated Madara with his... sword. And seriously? Last time I checked Madara fought the Five Kage, Hash's granddaughter included, so your whole "duel" nonsense has been debunked. Hashirama is the only one who can fight with him on equal terms, doesn't mean there weren't other Senju who could give him a considerable challenge. Tobirama is quite strong too, you know.... and killed Izuna don't forget--Elveonora (talk) 22:04, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hashirama isn't the type of person to let anyone interfere with his fights with Madara. If Madara wanted to fight him, Hashirama would face him alone. The manga frames each of Hashirama's and Madara's fights as a one on one duel. Mito wasn't there at all in the battle, Hashirama would have mentioned her, and its probable Mito appeared after the entire fight was over. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:45, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * While I don't believe this to be anywhere near a decent example of someone's ability, SuperSaiyaMan is correct in saying Tobirama didn't seemingly fight Madara. That's about all that's correct there. The other Senju were fighting Uchiha or what have view and then he went to deal the finishing blow. It is indeed ridiculous to think they just stood there and gave their life energy to Hashirama so he could create a spirit bomb...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:56, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

cerez that is what I said, they were probably fighting uchiha or someone else. my point was we cant tell one way or the other in this so it shouldn't be added. just state he was present but his involvement was unknown.--J spencer93 (talk) 01:40, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

I cannot believe this discussion has gotten to this point. The only thing here that any of you, Spencer and SSM, can oppose what's on Tobirama's page is the " fighting Madara", part. While I have to admit that there exist some serious doubt that he did indeed fight alongside his brother the entire time, that doesn't mean he didn't fight for the extensive amount of time. It was stated that Hashirama and Madara fought for an entire day (24 hours). Do you honestly believe that Tobirama (along side the clan) sat there and watched the battle for nearly a day, doing nothing? No, that would be improbable. While it is likely that Tobirama and the clan did not participate in that specific fight, he would have to had fend off the rest of the Uchiha for atleast that amount of time, for him to have arrived at the end of Hashi/Madara's fight. So where do I stand on the matter? Obviously with TTF and Elveo. It is ludicrous to believe that Tobirama and the clan watched a fight for, lets say almost that entire day, without doing anything. Whether he fought alongside his brother, or not, he still fought for nearly an entire day. That is irrefutable. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 09:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

um that is exactly what I been saying. we cant say tobirama participated in that fight...your statement literally echoes what my last 2 have about them most likely were off fighting other uchiha or something while those 2 fought it out. And I just read how it is worded on the page now and it has been changed since I posted my first comment, I have no problem with how it is worded now. You people all need to loosen up seriously, and maybe read a little better.--J spencer93 (talk) 16:34, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

It's clearly obvious he did, do you think he got scuffed all over from picking daisies? Pesa123456789 (talk) 19:27, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama Info
I found it online its apart of the databook it says that tobirama had an extreme interest in perfecting himself would that be ok to add to the trivia?

--Narutorikudoumode (talk) 23:55, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * It kinda is. If I'm not mistaken, his favourite words in his databook entry refer to qualities a good warrior should possess and cultivate. That's in the trivia section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:01, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Personality Image
I saw that we now have an image of him being angry at Naruto for his personality section. I always thought that the one when he declares to attack any harm for Konoha (e.g. Sasuke) would be a good choice too since it clearly expresses his ruthless determination for the village. You can find it on chapter 620, page 3. What do you think about it?Norleon (talk) 08:42, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:46, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. ;) Norleon (talk) 21:48, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Worthy of Mention
It, might be noteworthy to add that he literally grabbed two individual Tailed Beast (Naruto and Minato) and used the Flying Thunder God Technique. This is a testament to his chakra levels and his skill with the FTG technique. I would add it, but sadly, i wouldn't know where or what, for that matter, to add to Tobirama's and/or the FTG technique. Help. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 22:05, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Someone's chakra while reincarnated shouldn't be mentioned for that specific reason. The other bit has been added to his article.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:24, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I would be right to assume that you are referring to the infinite chakra granted by the Edo-Tensei, right? Well, because of recent revelations (i.e. the barriers the Hokage's made), that the infinite chakra doesn't circumvent their chakra levels/capacity. It's like a free refill, in a sense. I can get as many refills for my large cup, while my cousin gets them for his kiddie cup. I would still have more, and drink more, before I need more. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 23:35, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I still stand on my own that their TBM isn't a true form, there are no tailed beasts there or people transformed into them, just chakra cloaks formed as such. They can float inside, it doesn't equal fully solid mass, the size doesn't matter since the weight and density are low. On top of that, it's true that larger things take more chakra to transport, but we don't know how much it is to declare him having large reserves. His chakra may be the same as Kakashi's and transporting a building may take just 1% of it while a person 0,1%. All in all, we don't know how taxing the technique is.--Elveonora (talk) 10:49, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Understood. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 21:53, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Did Tobirama save himself or what?
basically i was reading chapter 644 again and i realized no one saved tobirama but he miraculously was outside the barrier. naruto said before the hokages, sasuke and jugo arrived, everyone else were connected to him because they had his chakra cloak and in the pages before they jumped naruto only had tailed beast arms on sasuke and jugo, and minato already had f.t.g kunai outside the barrier. i thought maybe it was just a mistake on that page but then when we see everyone outside the barrier he still wasnt making contact with anybody. now unless putting a f.t.g seal transfers chakra then forget it but if not, im just wondering how it would be changed on the actual page. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 20:32, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Not a forum, he tagged Minato prior to. Remember? KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 21:39, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

sorry if it sounded like a forum, but unless the seals contain chakra there was no way he could have been saved by minato unless he waited for minato to jump outside then use his f.t.g. But i doubt that because the blast inside the barrier looked near instantaneous --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 19:44, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Lets not forget his reflexes, plus FTG is instantaneous. Therefore, he technically had "ample" time to jump to Minato. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 20:00, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

so then since (if im guessing correctly) tobirama saved himself how would it change on his page because it does say he was teleported by minato outside the barrier. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 15:06, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Tobirama's speed
In the taijutsu section, it states that Tobirama is faster than Hashirama, where is the source for this? Pesa123456789 (talk) 17:28, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:35, September 11, 2013 (UTC)

Body Flicker Technique
i was reading 641 and in the first 2 pages Tobirama appears next to Minto takes the mysterious black orb and uses Flying Thunder God and hits Obito with it. Did he use Body Flicker because at that point he hadn't marked Naruto, Sasuke or Minato. And if he did use it shouldn't it be in the jutsu box? --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 19:52, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * BFT is a basic jutsu, only people who are renown for it or make heavy use of it get listed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:52, October 10, 2013 (UTC)

spit no jutsu
Any idea what it could be, I mean, did it resemble any known technique to you?--Elveonora (talk) 12:54, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * When I read it the first time, I thought it was spit, yes. Maybe some kind of suiton saliva no jutsu. Seelentau 愛議 12:57, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Senju Lava/Boil Release KKG confirmed... I'm trying to think of acidic Suiton, recalled nothing so far--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought he was using real senbon. If so, he could be labeled as a user of the Prepared Needle Shot, I already wrote on that technique's talkpage.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 14:44, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed looks more like senbons than any water release.--Elveonora (talk) 14:50, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can't really imagine it being something else =/.-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:52, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Well then, what about it? Will he be listed as a user of the Prepared Needle Shot? He did all of what the jutsu is about.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 16:21, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except for what Tobirama did doesn't suit the name, when did he prepare the needles? Mayhaps they've always been summoned into the mouth. I still think there's a possibility that it's water like in the Water Needle technique. I wish it was more clear whether that "senbon" was coming or going.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:52, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess he kind of stored them before in his mouth, just as Shizune must've done it in her fight against Kabuto. For the water part, I am not really convinced since nothing there looks like water would be involved.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 17:27, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * BumpIdontcareaboutmyname (talk) 15:20, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

I believe this is one of those times where We just let it alone until it's explained. We call it "a technique" Without being specific as to what it is. It could go either way possibly in my opinion. Whatever the technique is, there does seem to be some liquid below his chin.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:17, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's called saliva I believe--Elveonora (talk) 17:23, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought that was Edo Tensei-debris.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 17:38, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

I'm siding with Elveonora here (a rare event). To me, I simply got the impression that he spat at Madara. Now you ask "And he used Amaterasu to block it? Why would he?", and my counter is, why shouldn't he? He has this massive amount of chakra right now, and he cocky as cocky can be. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 07:38, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara used Amaterasu? News to me, in my chapter it was Susanoo--Elveonora (talk) 12:19, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * It was Susanoo, he merely made a mistake. Back to the topic please.
 * Since I can't see anything that hints to water being used there, I have troubles leaving the topic just as it is. However, when the majority is opposed to my opinion while the rest abstains from it, I guess it can't be helped then.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 12:28, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with us deciding on needles. If they were anything else but needles, like.... water needles, wouldn't Kishi have had Tobirama think in his mind: "Insert-TON: whatever no jutsu" to indicate a techniques was used there?--Elveonora (talk) 12:51, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Generally yes, but that's not always the case. Madara didn't thought "Susanoo" when he was blocking Tobirama's attack, neither when he used his jedi-powers to let Sasuke float. These are the cases where debates arise, since it's not 100% clear what exactly was going on now...Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 13:15, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is everyone saying it's spit. It'd be water if anything. I believe we should check what the sound effects used in the frame symbolise to see if that helps. Or else wait for the anime to see what they depict it as and go with that. I generally wouldn't agree to the latter, but it seems like the best option in this case.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:18, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * This discussion is redundant. While rare, shinobi spitting out weapons isn't something never before seen. If the needles were made of water, Kishi would've made this a technique. Highly doubtful this ever be elaborated on in the manga.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 21:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * So what's the agreement here?Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 12:07, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bump.Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 20:22, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think this is one of those cases where the anime will have to clarify the situation for us. Either that or if the manga ends soon enough and we get one last databook. If I had to pick, I'd say Tobirama did use senbon. We learned in these recent chapters that Madara is stabbing them with the chakra receivers at their tenketsu, meaning their chakra control is haywire, so I find it unlikely that he'd be using a Water Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:43, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agree with Omnibender, but with the anime doing yet more pointless fillers, I don't see us getting information like that for a while -.- --Speysider Talk Page 20:47, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

So until the scene gets to be shown (most likely in three years or so... -.-), we don't mention it under his abilities? Or should we try to somehow mention it without going into details? But then again, what would be the point in doing that...Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 20:54, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Madara says
Tobirama was known as the fastest shinobi alive. Only Minato, then after Minato's death.. Ei, were known to have that title so It should be added to Tobirama now. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:35, January 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * Unless I'm mistaken, he did not say it as if it was a title, it said it as a declaration "You were called the fastest shinobi." not "You were called the Fastest Shinobi". I mean really, that doesn't even sound like a title.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:38, January 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * I see your pov but the way Madara said it "Once hailed as The Fastest Shinobi..." seems like a legit title. Even if it was a deceleration it still sounded like a nickname if anything. In my opinion I think it should be their. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 22:59, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

I'd wait until the raw is available. I want to know if Madara actually said something like "you were called". I don't quite think this would be a title (we never listed it for Minato, A, or Naruto). I'd also like to know if the specific words used in the different occasions are the same. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

I also think that what Madara said was a legitimate title. Munchvtec 16:03, January 16, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec

Well if it is stated like that in the raw then like I said before I think it should be a title. Other than Minato, A and Naruto are never directly stated as being fastest in history or shinobi or however you want to put it, its just something A said about himself and Naruto but Tobirama was directly stated as The Fastest Shinobi. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 04:54, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Minato was reputed to be the fastest shinobi in his time. There's no difference between A and Madara saying it. To me, the same applies to both A and Naruto (indirectly at least). Still I wouldn't have an issue listing "fastest shinobi" in the same manner that we list Captain Badass as the "strongest Raikage" in history. I know a lot of us would like to see Tobirama with an epithet, but don't let a simple description become a moniker.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:36, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

It's just a description, not a nickname/title. Seelentau 愛議 13:59, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Well to be blunt a title/nickname (at least in the Naruto world) generally are descriptions of a person and their abilities. Thats why i say Tobirama should have the nickname of "The Fastest Shinobi" but I'll even take it a step further. I would propose that it be like the "Saviour of this World" title, were it refers to the characters of Tobirama, Minato, A and Naruto as to it not being exclusive to Tobirama. They are/were all basically known as the fastest of their time. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 18:22, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra Absorption Technique?
I'm not sure if its worth noting since im not too sure myself, but when the Alliance was going to take down the Shinju tree he told Minato he was going to use his chakra to get people out of harms way and he places his hand on him. Two panels later he's in the backround with his hand still on him and when we see him two pages later he's able to use the Flying Thunder God on members of the Alliance previously only connected to Naruto and Minato. So basically my question is can he naturally absorb chakra or is that a new technique?--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 22:34, February 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * He already had the chakra no? I mean, he was teleported out of the closed Six Red Yang Formation when Naruto and Minato shared their chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:35, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Actually from what I was able to gather he never had chakra from neither Minato nor Naruto and he wasn't in direct contact with either, he was standing at the side and saved himself. I actually did bring that point up a while back on this page, its a little further up.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 23:39, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Minato: "Unless my body or my chakra touch it, I can't teleport it". Ergo, Tobirama by touching Minato was able to perform Flying Thunder God on every member of the Alliance who had been given chakra by Naruto.--JOA20 (talk) 06:49, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Minato wasn't given chakra, they melded their chakra together to save the Aliliance, theres a difference. Physical contact with Minato doesnt mean chakra contact with the Alliance. To perform Flying Thunder God on the Alliance members Tobirama needs Minato or Naruto's chakra and he had Minto's and like I said he places a hand on him then he can use it. Plus the way its worded "Fourth, I'll be using the link between your and Naruto's chakra" and how the panel is (Tobirama placing a hand on Minato) suggests he transferred chakra from Minato to himself.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 12:35, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Instructions?
So, what are we talking about here? The translation I saw didn't suggest anything like that, but rather that Kabuto's own knowledge and Itachi's influence are what saved Sasuke, i.e. it wasn't Tobirama's advice on how to heal (he is a medic now, too?), but Itachi's advice on how to change his life that made Kabuto want to save Sasuke. Kabuto even elaborates on this later, talking about how Itachi's love for Sasuke changed his heart.Faust-RSI (talk) 20:02, March 7, 2014 (UTC)

It depends on what translation you read but what I read suggests that Kabuto's own healing abilities under the guidance/supervision of Tobirama is whats saving Sasuke. Itachi's influence is what has inspired Kabuto to change his heart and decide to save Sasuke. And Tobirama isn't necessarily a medic but he has knowledge of unorthodox means to heal someone.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 23:32, March 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Whixh is why I said wait until the raw came out, but... --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 07:54, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the raw is out already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:23, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Recent Deletions
Not sure how I'm ruining an article when it constantly get undone with things that are actually true and obvious but to the point: 1. Fatest Shinobi Title- I'm tired of sitting by while you guys ignore the fact that this is clearly a title. No one hesitated to add "Eternal Genin" to Might Dai. It may have been a bit of discussion but even Obito has the title "Saviour of this World". My problem is the fact in translations the focus remains the same with Madara hailing him as "The Fastest Shinobi" of their time but on the wiki its brushed aside and its said its not a title. But its like I said on Omnibender's talk page, how is Orochimaru saying "Even you who was hailed as God of Shinobi can't defeat old age." different from Madara stating "Once hailed as The Fastest Shinobi... just look at your pathetic self now." And I'm always seeing it's mentioned in his abilities but that has nothing to do with the fact that as a title its not listed. Granted it may not be a moniker but his renown/being hailed deserves title recognition same for Minato.

2. Chakra Absorption- Minato didn't use chakra transfer, Tobirama used chakra absorption and here how I know and you can tell. a) just look at what Tobirama does, he places his hand on Minato not unlike that of when Orochimaru did it to Kabuto. b) Minato couldn't have bought him to their chakra network because of my understanding if he did, instead of Naruto being the medium it would have been Minato. Tobirama had to take away from Minato's directly link with Naruto and the Kyubbi so that Minato wouldn't be used as the medium.

3. Infobox- Tobirama is acknowledged as Hashirama's advisor. Konoha Council members jobs are to "to give their opinions and advice, thus making sure the decisions made are fair and take into account all possibilities and viewpoints." As we saw he did so when Hashirama wanted to give the position of Hokage to Madara irrationally and he accompanied his brother to meetings with Feudal Lords something advisors to the Hokage do. Also he was the bodyguard for his brother at the first Five Kage Summit like Kankuro and Temari (who both have "Kazekage's Bodyguard" under their occupation I might add). Also is it really necessary to put what clan he hails from in the beginning summary, its not like he played a major role in Hashirama and Madara shaking hands.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 21:05, March 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not a moniker. We already discuses this at length and I thought it was concluded that it was not a moniker merely a statement that he was the fastest shinobi. Conclusion: along with the raw translation confirming it- it isn't a moniker. If you don't see the difference between Eternal Genin and the fastest shinobi then that's your issue.
 * Unconfirmed and uncorroborated. You don't know what was done there so we don't mention it. You don't just add it because you think that's what happened. That's why we don't mention the water/needles he spat, "moving" his soul, or assisting Kabuto because we don't know what he did.
 * He was Hashirama's advisor which is why I left it in his intro. That doesn't me a he was par of the Konoha Council which was created with Homamura and Koharu. I have no issue adding him as an advisor, however, he shouldn't be added to the team.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:27, March 15, 2014 (UTC)