Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26005711-20150704102606/@comment-26773508-20150816050314

Minato 87 wrote: QuakingStar wrote: Nope. Kakashi with DOuble Mangekyo also has Six Paths Power. He would do to Hashirama the same shit he was doing to Kaguya who was faster and had more raw power. Hashirama can regenerate of that attack. With Kamui Raikiri Kakashi can't kill Hashirama, he took Kaguya's right arm, Hashirama would beat Kakashi even without one arm. Hashirama can't regenerate if DMS Kakashi uses Kamui Raikiri on his heart. Lest we forget, even a god like Hashirama was killed in the First Shinobi War, and he wasn't even as old as Hiruzen when he died.

Also, yes Hashirama can destroy DMS Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo, but it's gonna take him a while, as he wasn't able to immediately destroy Madara's Perfect Susanoo while they fought (they fought for a whole day). Hashi needs senjutsu to destroy the Perfect Susanoo. And while the Perfect Susanoo will eventually get destroyed, dealing with DMS Kakashi's intangibility will be a whole other issue. IMO DMS Kakashi will eventually beat Prime Hashirama. But Hokage Kakashi is arguably the weakest Hokage in history.

UnstoppableUchiha wrote: This is a hard one to speculate on. We've only ever truly seen Hiruzen fight twice... resurrected during the Fourth Shinobi World War, in which he was near complete power but not quite there, and before his death when Orochimaru invaded Konoha. Each time Sarutobi was older. As a result, when it comes to considering how he would fight in his younger years, all we can do is guess.

We've witnessed that he is wise; we've witnessed that he is talented, considering that he has learned to use each chakra nature; we've witnessed that he has excellent battle instincts; we've witnessed that he is advanced in taijutsu, is a master of ninjutsu, and... though I despise ever referencing the databooks... is said to be gifted in genjutsu as well.

And you know what? All of those things... all of them... could be said of Kakashi as well. Let's be honest: we've never seen Sarutobi do something that the eventual Kakashi -- the one we're debating over, the one from years later following the War, in the Hokage seat -- would be incapable of pulling off himself. We've seen Kakashi use genjutsu... even battling Madara-trained Obito in genjutsu to a draw. We've seen him skillfully use taijutsu. And we've seen him use masterful ninjutsu many times, each of the elements represented.

The way I see it, the only way one could estimate Sarutobi's victory would be to assume things about his prime that we simply don't know anything about. For, insofar as I can see, Kakashi and Sarutobi look fairly evenly matched on paper. I think this fight could go either way, depending on what each shinobi perhaps had for breakfast that morning. You made some excellent points. Plus there's also the huge chakra boost for Kakashi now that he has no sharingan. Considering his War-arc feats, it seems that his chakra level as Hokage should be quite above-average at least, but most likely it's around Pre-War Orochimaru level. I'm basing this on the fact that Sakumo's hype was Sanin-level. And in order to gain such hype, one must have considerable amount of chakra, rivaling that of the Sanin. So it's not unreasonable to suppose that Kakashi, the boy genius who became a jonin at 13, inherited his father's reasonably powerful chakra. Also, I assume Orochimaru has the least chakra among the Sanin due to the fact that his body couldn't handle senjutsu chakra. Jiraiya could handle it because he had a lot of chakra, while we know Tsunade has a huge chakra pool due to her Senju/Uzumaki heritage and her feats during Pain's invasion (constantly healing innumerable Konoha nin).

Now there are also counterexamples to the assumption of inheritance of powerful chakra. Hiruzen must have had enormous chakra due to his hype and his old-age feats. And while Asuma has good chakra reserves as well, he's not at all in the same league as Hiruzen. So this gives us a basis for taking an agnostic stance on Hokage Kakashi's chakra prowess.

All in all, I agree Kakashi throughout the series has shown almost all feats that Hiruzen was said to have possessed by hype. But I still think Hiruzen would take it because of his hype.