Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180922192049

LegionZero wrote: IF he does its not worth 2 squirts of piss, especially in combat or else he would have used the cloak from the end of Naruto against Momoshiki, instead he only uses Kurama Mode and he doesnt have the markings on his back that would signify the presence of the chakra of all the Tailed Beasts This we agree on. LegionZero wrote: The SPSM page already identifies the cloakless form as SPSM >.> and the cloaked form as a seperate mode. Don’t go contradicting yourself. You just said hokage Naruto’ modes lacked the hallmarks of rsm because he doesn’t have enough of the necessary chakra to enter it. The exact words apply to Naruto when he kicked the TSO and saved gai. Be consistent, the hallmarks of rikudo senjutsu are what indicates rikudo sagehood. The moment Naruto had those very hallmarks is when he achieved that power and entered that mode.

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero

The fact that hagoromo had that same cloak before being a TTJ should prove that ridoku senjutsu grants access to the cloak. So if hokage naruto still has SPSM then his cloak should be the same thing, bijuu or not. this should mean that his SPSM is in fact dependent on having the bijuu within him.

Also, if the coffin seal and tomoe don't indicate ridoku senjutsu, then what does exactly? How do we even know that madara is a user of six paths senjutsu? The only other evidence is the truth seekers, which doesn't always have around him. I fail to see why the 9 bijuu chakra inside naruto wouldn't give him ridoku senjutsu and SPSM after hagoromo gave him the key to use them together. The novel does state that naruto was in fact a juubi jinchuriki, which would give him the same powers as madara and obito. Overall agree. CombatIQmatters wrote: @Hagoromo, shoot we forgot about limbo. This proves that naruto is in SPSM when he kicked the TSO, just as I had suspected, but it was likely an incomplete form. The form gets completed by the bijuu chakra cloak. I disagree with this, because just like small amounts of biju chakra and amounts of sage chakra can grant abilities, small but increasing levels of rikudo sage chakra should also grant abilities. Which it did. Having an amount of sage chakra doesn’t make you a sage, orochimaru proved that. Having and amount of tailed beast chakra doesn’t make you a jinchuriki, the 40k shinobi that made up the alliance on day two of the 4th war proved that. Naruto, when he kicked the TSO and saved guy has some, not much, but some rikudo sage chakra. He was able to benefit from it as it grew, but that doesn’t mean he was in rsm. Kakashi himself was given rikudo sage chakra from obito when he was temporarily given dual ms in volume 71 chapter 689 page 3. Kakashi outright states that rikudo sage chakra boosted his ocular powers, yet we don’t see kakashi with any signs of juubi’ power(other than the existence of his logic defying perfect susanoo but even then the chakra for susanoo is always produced in the brain and doesn’t come from the juubi), so this tells me he has very little but still a usable amount of rikudo sage chakra. The same can be said about Naruto at the point where madara was noticing his power’s increasing. So that’s why Naruto isn’t in rsm then. Plus there’s no evidence supporting the claim that Naruto uses rsm in conjunction with another mode. There is only one rsm. CombatIQmatters wrote: However, the main point of the OP is still intact because I'm still trying to sort out why exactly hokage naruto's cloak wouldn't have the tomoe if he was still using SPSM. If the bijuu have nothing to do with it, then the cloak should still have the tomoe. I agree with this, the cloak with the hallmarks of rikudo sagehood is missing from all of Naruto’ forms post vote2. Manga anime databook and novel all state, whether directly or indirectly, that those hallmarks are required for the mode. Show us evidence of rikudo senjutsu in hokage Naruto, as that is the only way to prove his rikudo sagehood or any rikudo sagehood. AsianReaper wrote: Hokage Naruto's cloak doesn't have tomoe because his cloak is no longer using power from all the Bijuu. But SPSM is separate from that obviously, so he just uses SPSM with his Kurama cloak. The moment you say hokage Naruto is without rikudo senjutsu or his means of obtaining that power, you forfeit any claims of him using rsm. I said this already rsm is a single form. A form that requires rikudo sage chakra, juubi chakra, juubi’ power as proven by the OP and the thread. You conceded the moment you said he was without that power. AsianReaper wrote: Me over here wondering when @Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki is gonna respond to my arguments. If you have any new arguments that haven’t been discussed on this thread already, what are they? Be sure to provide support for them as well. CombatIQmatters wrote: @AsianReaper, but there is no proof that SPSM is a separate mode. It still requires the 9 bijuu inside and when he manifests the chakra cloak it should have tomoe and coffin seal. Why wouldn't he use his powers exactly? why settle for a half-baked SPSM? Even hagoromo as a user of six paths senjutsu has tomoe on his cloak. So why does naruto suddenly not have his powers? Agreed, there is 0 evidence to the claims that rsm is multiple modes of can be used with other modes. The only way to believe that is by taking leaps in logic that doesn’t adhere to canon. Using rsm against shin clones, thieves on a train and against a few jonin during training but not against Momoshiki is illogical.