Talk:Wood Release

Sorry that I am bringing it up, but..
Why isnt Naruto listed as a wielder of the Wood Release? He possess Zetsus arm--Keeptfighting (talk) 10:15, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because Naruto doesn't use Wood Release. --Sharingan91 (talk) 10:32, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru either?--Keeptfighting (talk) 10:39, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Many times I asked to remove Orochimaru as a user. --Sharingan91 (talk) 10:45, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * But he is still listed. So as long as he is listed as a user of WR, Naruto should too.--Keeptfighting (talk) 10:47, September 7, 2015 (UTC)

Momoshiki
If he was a user, then it's incorrect to say the originator is Hashirama, no?--Elve Talk Page 12:13, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Before Momoshiki absorbed WR from Katasuke's kote, Naruto was bound to the god tree, which suggests was done via WR. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:39, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Katasuke used WR through Kote and Momo absorbed it? Don't remember such scene. Also I'm still quite annoyed how badly this is being handled. Only those who actually possess a kekkei genkai should have the label and it shown in the infobox, for example Naruto shouldn't have Magnet, Boil or Lava in his infobox, it's misleading and incorrect.--Elve Talk Page 17:39, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't recall Katasuke having WE through the Kote either. But I disagree with your notion that Naruto shouldn't be listed as having those kekkei genkai in his infobox. By that logic, he should also not be listed as having negative emotion sensing, since that is Kurama's power. No jinchuriki should ever be listed as a Tailed Beast Ball user, and so on. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:59, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's different, when a jinchuuriki is in control and he or she uses TBB, they are the one doing it, so they are users. And Naruto is indeed a user of Magnet, Boil and Lava, hence why they are shown in his Jutsu part of infobox, but they shouldn't be treated as his kekkei genkai.--Elve Talk Page 19:08, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * A long while ago, back when the "how to treat Son Goku's Lava Release" arguments were raging, I recall being indifferent about those natures being listed as kekkei genkai. My argument was, if those are genetic abilities, and the tailed beasts are technically made of chakra, they don't have genes, so kekkei genkai would be off the table, but it wouldn't bother me much having them listed as such. Those advanced natures could be listed in their nature listing, but not as kekkei genkai. I don't recall much that happened during those arguments, but I believe that once at least some of those advanced nature tailed beast based jutsu were listed as kekkei genkai in databooks, it became a moot point. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:18, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Who said they have no genes? They have consciousness, skin, flesh, bones, blood, saliva etc. and they have even aged... isn't aging a slowdown in cell renewal? They are clearly physical. Just because they were created from chakra, doesn't mean they are literary just chakra. They are not like Shadow Clones, temporarily physical, but dispersing back to chakra when struck. If the databook lists them as kekkei genkai, then the Tailed Beast clearly must have genes. Point is the jinchuuriki shouldn't be labeled as having said kekkei genkai too--Elve Talk Page 19:29, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, Kakashi shouldn't be listed with the Sharingan Kekkei Genkai, either. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:37, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * The "they're just chakra" argument was made before their origins were shown. A specific case of jinchuriki based jutsu being labelled kekkei genkai is Boil Release: Unrivalled Strength. Explicitly shown as something Naruto could use only because of Kokuo, labelled as kekkei genkai in its entry in the Jin no Sho. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:00, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Seel, yes. @Omni, because the kekkei genkai belongs to Kokuo and Naruto used it through Kokuo. It's a kekkei genkai because it's a combined nature, which Naruto used with help of Kokuo, but the kekkei genkai belongs to it not him.--Elve Talk Page 22:39, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Boruto novel - "Countless ninjutsu were thrown out of Katasuke’s gauntlet. Fire release, water release, wood release, lightning release, and the Rasengan. Every now and then hiden jutsu that had been collected from Konoha’s clans were fired towards Momoshiki as well". --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:53, November 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * What about Lava Release and Ice Release? Were those attributed to Kote or him absorbing them from someone with Rinnegan?--Elve Talk Page 13:45, November 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * But this didn't happen in the movie, so Momoshiki having Wood-Release is novel-only.--UltimaDude (talk) 03:12, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Momoshiki has absorbed-from-Kote Wood Release novel only. His manipulation of the God Tree, which is the current basis for his listing still happened in the movie, and soon enough should also appear in the manga. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:12, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Elve and that's where you're wrong. Kekkei Genkai are both the genetical anomaly and the resulting effect. While Kakashi might not have the genetical anomaly, he still has the result of it. Same for everyone else. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:24, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, he doesn't anymore now, does he, since it never was part of his genome, just a transplant. How about writing in a new infobox section, for characters who have been in possession of kekkei genkai by unnatural means?--Elve Talk Page 11:54, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I'd feel that'd just be unnecessary.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 12:45, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Omni Since when does God Tree manipulation fall under Wood Release? By that same logic, God: Nativity of a World of Trees is Wood Release. If Momoshiki is listed as a user of Wood Release for manipulating the Shinju, then the same should be done for Kaguya --UltimaDude (talk) 14:55, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * There was a lot of discussion about whether that was Wood Release or not when it first appeared. If I'm not mistaken, that particular jutsu isn't considered Wood Release because the fourth databook was released not long after, categorising it as kekkei mōra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:30, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then shouldn't Momoshiki be listed as a user of Kekkei Mōra for doing the same thing? That leads me to my next point; he shouldn't be listed as a user of Lava Release (unless he absorbed it in the novel, then it should just be listed as novel-only). What Momoshiki did to burn Sasuke was simply creating friction and pressure to cause the boulders to explode. This akin to Gaara manipulating sand to do some spectacular things. --UltimaDude (talk) 18:40, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Momoshiki doesn't have the Rinne Sharingan. About Lava Release, I believe that's due to the golem Naruto and Sasuke cut through as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:55, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * But ... What's the problem? Momoshiki uses ice release in the novel, lava golem and wood dragon in the movie... also in the novel he absorbs wood release jutsu. I think that the talk is closed.--Sharingan91 (talk) 20:56, November 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Omni The Rinne-Sharingan isn't the only Kekkei Mōra (e.g, Kaguya's Byakugan and Hagoromo's Rinnegan). But regardless, Shinju manipulation isn't Wood Release. Momoshiki didn't absorb any Lava Release jutsu, so where would he get Lava Release from? He manipulated the earth, similar to how Gaara manipulates sand and how Kaguya was manipulating ice in her ice dimension. @Sharingan91 He got Ice Release, in the novel, by absorbing a jutsu from a user, I can accept that as long as it is listed as novel-only. He didn't make the lava golem and wood dragon through Lava Release and Wood Release. Also, he was shown to have manipulated the Shinju before he absorbed the jutsus Katasuku fired. Even if that wasn't the case and he was using Wood Release, then it should be listed as novel-only since he has gotten it only in the novel. Nice try, though--UltimaDude (talk) 01:25, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * And Momoshiki's were not called kekkei mōra anywhere. Him manipulating earth doesn't explain why his golem would have lava glow. I have basically checked out in caring about where this goes, since I've seen this discussion happen time and time again, and no one is ever able to agree or compromise in anything. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:34, November 27, 2016 (UTC)