Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-43403813-20190907005521/@comment-43840650-20191006221527

You can still see an attack coming and still be hit by it. Surprise attacks are ones you don't see coming. The reason why its not a surprise attack is because Pain was the one attacking in the first place, Jiraiya just retaliated. Not the definition of a surprise attack.

Regardless if Itachi was hiding in trees or not, The summons didnt see Itachi.

So are we creating feats that haven't been proven in the manga randomly? The chameleon was never said to have this feat, so it doesn't. Stop creating feats to back up your arguments.

Are you hearing yourself? How are the methods I listed useless? Are you saying that Pain can't use Shinra Tensei on a Shuriken/Kunai? That its too fast for them? That's the point we were having, not about Itachi's clone.

Jiraiya literally threw a giant shuriken at the Asura path as a surprise attack, and Asura dodged it perfectly. Pain was also quick enough to summon a Panda which could take the hits of jiraiya's needle hair jutsu, so it can probably tank the shuriken and kunai that go towards them, and pretty quickly too. So if for some stupid reason Pain can't just dodge them with shared vision like they normally do, because thats what you're trying to say, then Pain can use all its other methods as well.

The Rinnegan still has the feat of seeing chakra networks. If Madara can see Guy's network from at least 100 ft away in detail, then Nagato should be able to see the build-up in Itachi's eyeball, and we know this is a possible way to see someone using ocular abilities as its been explained in the manga. Even still, Nagato's sensory abilities is just another feat for his ability to avoid genjutsu. And Itachi didn't even use Amaterasu at that time, he used Kotoamatsukami, which is what Nagato actually detected, so Nagato was still able to detect it building up.

Your point about 90% of genjutsu being the same is irrelevant, because my original point was that the Rinnegan resists visual genjutsu anyways, including these 90%. It is fact that Tsukuyomi and Infinite Tsukuyomi are functionally identical, not identical in every way, as they both trap the user in an illusion, which means it would take similar means to resist such a thing. And for the 1000th time, the fact that the Rinnegan could resist IT logically means that it would resist a much weaker genjutsu of the same functionality.

"After receiving half of Hagoromo's chakra from his spirit, Sasuke awakened a Rinnegan in his left eye, which contains three tomoe on its two innermost circles for a total of six. In addition to the Rinnegan's power, this eye retains the abilities of Sasuke's left Mangekyō Sharingan, including the ability to cast ocular genjutsu and use Amaterasu.[14][15] If Sasuke overuses the power of his Rinnegan, his ocular power will temporarily diminish, causing the tomoe in his Rinnegan to vanish until his full power returns. During this time, he is also seemingly unable to activate his right eye's Mangekyō Sharingan or use Susanoo."

-- From the Naruto Wiki, which has provided evidence from the manga.