Talk:Kamui

Not Sure
I'm not sure it's quite right to say that there's a contradiction between Madara's and Obito's ability with Kamui while being the Jubi's host. Madara didn't use the intangibility version, but the overt barrier transportation. The part where Obito realized he couldn't use it was in a situation of the sort where he would usually use the "intangibility" usage of the technique. Skitts (talk) 05:48, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless I'm mistaken, Obito never said he couldn't "travel through dimensions" as the article claims, but actually said he couldn't slip through things anymore. If true, there's no contradiction at all and the article should be changed.--BeyondRed (talk) 06:10, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, although perhaps Seelentau or someone had access to the raws, and that's what it said. Maybe we should ask him? :) Skitts (talk) 06:16, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. He says somewhat like "with the TT in me, slipping through isn't possible anymore, huh? How irritating". Of course this means Kamui's ability to let things slip through. However! That is also a dimension traveling. Stating that Obito (and likely Madara) can't use Kamui as the TT's host is wrong. Stating that they can't use part of Kamui is correct. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:22, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Then I guess it's better to change the wording of the trivia a little…--JOA20 (talk) 09:39, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * So I get it TT host can transport himself and others to the Kamui world, but can't send there parts of himself? Doesn't make much sense to me why would full body work but parts not, but ok Kishi--Elveonora (talk) 12:38, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe because he can't teleport the part of the TT that's hit, since it's too much chakra...? Dunno, this is what I'd call plot, even though I despise using that word. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:02, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

Based on completely nothing, I would assume that as the Ten-Tails jinchuriki, the phasing part (instantaneous sending parts of his body to the other dimension) doesn't work, but he can send himself to the other dimension if he desired (as shown by Madara). Why is anyone's guess, but yeah. There ya go.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:27, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * He can't "split" parts of his body between dimensions, but he can wholly transfer from one dimension to the other. It reeks of plot device either way.--JOA20 (talk) 15:44, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 685 - New Info on Kamui
We've already noted what Kamui can do when a user has one of the eyes. Now we know what they can do when the user has both eyes. Obito was shown to use them simultaneously to:

One: Create two Kamui at the same time -- Obito used his left eye Kakashi had to create a long-ranged Kamui that connected with Kaguya's portal, then used his right eye to create a short-ranged Kamui to teleport himself, Naruto's clone and Sakura, and connected both Kamui together to teleport to Kaguya's core dimension.

Two: Create a combined (the original) Kamui with both eyes -- Obito used both eyes to create a larger Kamui portal that is both long-ranged and short-ranged. It even looked different when Obito used both eyes. Proof of this is that the dimension Sasuke was in was a long distance away, as noted by Obito himself, but the portal was a short distance away from both the user (Obito) and the target (Sasuke).

So yeah, I think we should state in the article what happens when a user of Kamui has both eyes. Any objections? WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 01:30, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nope. I also support that the latest Kamui is the original, true Kamui which Obito would've used all the time if he had two eyes his whole life. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:23, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 19:00, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe the portal creation is already in the article. Unless you mean to reformat the article to accommodate what we know both eyes can do together.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:02, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes. That's what I meant. I'll do it shortly. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 19:13, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely against that. I am in agreement with Seel. What Obito recently displayed is likely the true Kamui. What we've seen up until now is just what they were capable of with one eye each, but we all know that the "true" power of a Mangekyō Sharingan technique can only be used when the user has both eyes. Both Madara and Obito have flat out said that. Perhaps we could reformat it based on this new information? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 19:14, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. By the way, can someone insert images for the "Both Eyes" section? Like a simple picture for the combined, original Kamui, and a slideshow of images to show the process of Obito using both the long-range and short-range Kamui and the connection of them to get to Kaguya's core dimension? It would really help. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 19:43, July 16, 2014 (UTC)

Thanx for the image. Do whatever cleanup you want. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 20:01, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gonna make that slideshow. Please don't delete the images I upload. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 01:30, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * A slideshow isn't needed. The images are displayed fine as they are now. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 01:32, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Eh... we'll make it work. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 03:13, July 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * In the nexus space:
 * All moments of the Opening were from a “right launch”, or a left. Never at the same time from both.
 * LEFTY EYE EVENT ..holds left eye from agony inflicted


 * RIGHTY EYE EVENT 


 * Only to make the aperture deeply splayed, wider for Sasuke to physically traverse when opened-- did a left or right give the other eye which built an opening some leg up.
 * Those, along with the first insertion of bunshin Naruto and Sakura, were at best the lone instances nearing simultaneous. At no time did he employ both Mangekyo to simultaneouly build the aperture while in the nexus. Only to make it not unravel rapidly.
 * Also to note: Long-visual kamui and the other was a one-time open-point system to fly into her Space. Not connected to the hole they dug into the fabrics to find which had Sasuke
 * Touch up on that article a bit, would you fellas. --Gantta (talk) 01:31, July 18, 2014 (UTC)Gantta
 * /shrug seems valid enough. Thoughts from others?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:05, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Meh... can you explain why the Kamui looked different? I, along with Tau and Foxie believe that's the True Kamui with both eyes. Obito and Madara confirmed that the true power of the Mangekyo lies with both eyes. But Whatever the majority says I'm fine with. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 01:16, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

No... On page 8 , when Sakura recognized the place and Obito claimed he couldn't sense Sasuke after finding the lava dimension, both eyes were bleeding, before finding the sea of acid. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 03:23, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can we stop linking to illegal images and scanlation sites? It's against the rules, thanks. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 14:23, July 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I can only probably re-iterate.
 * Task of delaying the aperture from rapid unravel caused that bloody eye discharge from right eye.  It was still his left that made the opening as of pg 8 - which Oozed blood as well. By the time they dialed into the space Sasuke was contained in,  Roles had switched up:
 * 'Opening' to Right, while the left readily followed to make the portal that was already up more sustainable.
 * line-up within the nexus again:
 * *First PORTAL creation attempt, Kamui's onomatopoeia ズズズズズズ was syndicated to Obito's “left eye” exclusively.
 * *ズキン zukin; consistent with the “left eye” he covered in agony.
 * *Close up of ギン-gin-/glare was associated with the right  now making the opening and not the left.
 * Many 2chan posters too were quick on the trigger. --Gantta (talk) 18:23, July 20, 2014 (UTC)Gantta

My bad Spey. I'll stop. And bloody eye discharge on the right eye? What Uchiha has focused a technique on one eye and had "bloody eye discharge" on the other? As we've seen with all Uchiha, the eye(s) bleed if a technique is overexerted on it/both. As clearly shown on page 8, that Kamui required and used both eyes. That's why both bled. You can't argue with the manga. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 20:10, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Doubts about changes and additions to the Trivia section
I wanted know your opinion about these changes/addition to the trivia section of the page:

1) Currently the trivia state: "Unlike other Mangekyō Sharingan users, Obito's continuous usage of Kamui does not seem to cause his eyesight to deteriorate." However during Obito and Sakura's rescue for Sasuke opening the portals in the various Kaguya's dimensions, we saw clearly how also Obito's eyes started to bleed. So far the bleeding of the sharingan is always been associated to the deteriorating of the eyesight with the only exception of Amaterasu's usage (indeed Sasuke bleed even owning an Eternal MS). So should we delete the triva having seen something that potentially could be an evidence of the opposite case?

2) During the first meeting between young Obito and Madara, the latter stated how it was incredible that Obito remained alive despite the fall of the cave, "just as if he had been able to slip through the rocks" is the expression used by Madara. The line seems to want hint that Obito was already able to use the property of Kamui that he will use istinctively during Rin's death, and even Madara' statement to want awaken the potential of Obito that he owned according to his intuition could be in agreement with the explanation that Obito had already manifested the powers of the MS (in his death he was regretting the missing of Rin and Kakashi, just as he declares with his last lines in the gaiden). Do you think that would be right to state in the trivia (here or eventually in Obito's page) how the manga could hint to a such development?--JK88 (talk) 21:44, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Shuriken
Kamui variation created by Obito employing Shuriken received a name in Storm Revolution, wouldn't it be better to remove the information about the use of Shuriken from the "Teleportation", and put the name of this variation in jutsus derivatives?--Minato KCM (talk) 23:46 (UTC), November 14, 2014

Adding Shin's Father/Sharingan spying device as users
I'm not exactly sure why they haven't been added as users but both were shown too use Kamui in the most recent chapters so they should be added. --Thdyingbreed (talk) 00:42, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thing is....Kamui is Obito-exclusive, whose dead. It's obviously Kamui but until it's called that, everyone's hesitant to add them Riptide240 (talk) 00:48, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even though I understand the hesitation in listing them as Kamui users, if it was solely up to me, that's what I'd do. Put it this way: what do you think is more far-fetched? That these individuals are using Kamui, a known and well-established MS jutsu, or a second MS jutsu that looks and functions exactly the same way as Kamui, but isn't it? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:49, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression it was Kamui until the most recent chapter, seeing as the father and creature used the technique with just their regular sharingan. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:53, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Obito too used Kamui just with regular Sharingan, or it at least appeared that way.--Elve Talk Page 11:48, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't it said in the third databook that if one trains hard enough, a Mangekyo Sharingan user can attain Kamui? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:31, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bump. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 19:54, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Third databook even claimed Tobi was Madara. Until it's stated to be Kamui, I'm not for adding them to the users' list, though I recognise that their jutsu looks waaay too similar.--JOA2020:05, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Should we at least create a new page for that technique then? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 20:20, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * That could do. If it turns out to be Kamui after all, we'll just edit it.--JOA2020:30, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know... we know that eye techniques aren't unique and we know that one can learn Kamui through training. It's highly possible that they're using Kamui, I think a trivia note would be appropriate. A new article is too much, imo. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:10, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * This technique doesn't seem to work quite the same way as Kamui though. It appears to create a barrier around the user and absorb everything inside of it, rather than just whatever they are touching. Plus we saw both Shin and the creature use it with their regular Sharingan active, and it would be strange for Shin's Mangekyō to have two techniques when nobody else's eyes do. Of course, it's entirely possible that this is a third distinct variation of Kamui, since Obito's eyes already had two, but the usage without the Mangekyō should indicate it is a different technique.--BeyondRed (talk) 22:22, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kamui created a barrier and absorbs everything inside of it as well. ;) • Seelentau 愛 議 00:26, June 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not the short-range version though. But like I said, this could easily just be a new variation.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:57, June 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not? • Seelentau 愛 議 08:41, June 14, 2015 (UTC)

I guess that's just an assumption, actually, since nothing talking about Obito's Kamui has ever referenced it involving barriers like Kakashi's. Obito's version always seems to suck things in whole, whereas Kakashi's Kamui and Shin's technique have been shown severing anything inside of their range. Anyway, to get back on topic we might as well just wait to create any articles for Shin's technique, since there are only a few chapters left in Gaiden for it to be explained (unless it isn't ever explained in typical Naruto fashion).--BeyondRed (talk) 11:07, June 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * The entire basis for not adding these guys as users to begin with was because you guys thought it was "unique" to Obito. It obviously isn't, so how can they not be added? I guess I'm for waiting since the gaiden will wrap up in a few weeks, but I'm still seeing no difference in usage here.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 11:26, June 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * So, let me get this straight. The only reason we're not adding the former, is because it wasnt specifically named Kamui in the manga? That's odd seeing all the evidence supports otherwise. Same swirling pattern, same-effect, same dōjutsu. Everything but the same said, out-loud. Putting them as users would hardly be the type of speculation we usually combat against.-- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 21:08, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shin and his creature used the technique with just a normal sharingan, something which i think Tobi has done. But if he was shown using it with his Mangekyo, his identity would of been spoiled. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 21:20, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Please just put a trivia note. It's not our job to expand on what was and wasn't said in the manga. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:24, June 15, 2015 (UTC)

What Seelentau said. Kamui was however said to be learnable by anyone with the Mangekyō Sharingan.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 00:45, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Databook information
So I finally translated Kamui's article. Here it is. Just saying~ • Seelentau 愛 議 00:59, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Something we didn't know? Well, basically says there are 2 Kamui techniques.--Elve Talk Page 13:23, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * ...no? It says that there's a subtle difference between the eyes that use Kamui. It's still one technique. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:39, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * So the other dimension is created by the Mangekyō Sharingan?--JOA2013:43, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:01, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Didn't we already know this?--14:38, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

But aren't 2 different MS techs required for Susanoo?--Elve Talk Page 14:40, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Isn't it more of a case of requiring a certain level of mastery over both eyes? I don't think they need to be separate techniques, per se. --Atrix471 (talk) 15:09, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * No Elve, not since the Kage summit. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:23, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * So Izuna is Susanoo user and Shisui's game-only tag should be removed, hell every Mangekyou user now has Susanoo according to retconned canon.--Elve Talk Page 15:27, July 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Technically, yes. But since they never used it canonically, it stays as it is. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:57, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Kamui combo speed
(I know it's already been reverted, but I'll respond here anyway.) This edit is not suitable for the wiki: This wiki documents the series, not ideas about the series that certain users come up with. The series says that Kamui's speed doubles, and that's all that the wiki should say on the subject. ~SnapperTo 23:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It presumes to know how the faster speed is calculated, namely that the individual speeds are in some way combined so that the end result is something like 2.2x the speed of a single Kamui. But we don't know that. Maybe the speed is calculated not by combining the two speeds together but rather by a simple multiplication of the number of Kamui inovlved, so that, if there were somehow a third Kamui source, it would 3x. But we don't know, so the trivia doesn't belong.
 * Even if we assume that the two speeds are combined in some way, it presumes to know what the separate speeds of each Kamui are for the purposes of that hypothetical calculation. I don't remember the left Kamui's speed every being expressed as compared to the right. Maybe it's the same, but maybe it's slower. And if it's slower, maybe the combination of the two speeds works out to exactly double the speed of the self-used right Kamui. But we don't know, so the trivia doesn't belong.
 * Even if we assume that the combination of the right and left Kamui somehow yields speeds greater than 2x, so what? The average person does not believe every numerical statement to be an exact value. If I say that I'm 30 years old, am I literally 30 years old? Not unless it's my birthday; on any other day of the year I'd be 30 years and 4 months and 12 days or whatever. Adding a trivia point to explain that "double" might not be literally true sets a precedent where the wiki can nitpick about every conceivable value. Jiraiya says the Nine-Tails' attack was 16 years ago? Better add a line of trivia clarifying that it was actually only 15 years and 11 months. Deidara's C0 is described as covering a 10 km radius? We should take the time to note that based on the size of the blah blah relative to the blah blah seen in chapter blah blah, it probably covers closer to 12 km.