Talk:Kawarama Senju

Another Brother
I am about 53% sure that Kawarama is another Senju brother. I of course base this completely on the name "Kawarama", like "Hashirama", Tobirama. The only wrench in this theory is Itama, who's name drops the "rama" ending and ruins everything. Still maybe a trivia note?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:15, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * If it really was their brother, then I guess they would be a little more depressed about his death, like Hashirama sulking at the river after his other brother died. Otherwise, it is more an assumption.Norleon (talk) 12:26, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree. None of them seemed to speak about Kawarama as a sibling, a relative yes, but not a sibling.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk)

Hi, well actually Tobirama said that Kawarama is their brother. Check it again for prove ^_^. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 15:26, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

My 2 cents, "Senju Father" fathered pretty much most children in Senju Clan, it's common for a leader to impregnate many women or not? I also disagree with @Norleon, they were obviously much more touched by his/her death than they should if it was just some random Senju kid, dad's suppressed sadness turned into anger and he had to filter it by hitting Hashi, the whole "be thankful for a part of his corpse retrieved" thing also the convo turned into Hashi talking how he doesn't want to just watch Tobirama and Itama die a hollow death. Also Tobirama told Itama "keep thinking like that and we will be burying you real soon" in response to avenging the lost loved ones, everything hints on that--Elveonora (talk) 15:24, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * It hints, yes. But it proves nothing. We have to wait for later chapters or even the next databook to be completely sure. Until then, we simply know that he is another Senju member, nothing more.Norleon (talk) 16:03, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Going by the name, I would also believe Kawarama is another brother, the naming scheme ending in -ma. When raw comes out, we have to see if the way they talk about him indicates he's a sibling. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:20, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

So, has there been a confirmation about Kawarama being a sibling to the Senju trio? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 14:29, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. Seelentau 愛議 14:49, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * It may be a naming convention within the clan, so it wouldn't necessarily mean that they had to be brothers.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:10, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

In chapter 624, when Madara says that his brothers have been killed by the Senju, Hashirama thinks about Itama and a guy who is probably Kawarama. Wouldn't that be enough to claim Kawarama as Hashirama's brother?--79.50.187.241 (talk) 08:16, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think it was obvious and now has been confirmed--Elveonora (talk) 12:48, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I am still not totally convinced about this. Everything hints on that for sure, but what I am missing is the unmistakable evidence, like "all his brothers died, just like mine" or something like that. He could have been his cousin just as well, who knows it for sure?Norleon (talk) 12:55, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

The scenes and situations mirrored themselves, cousin is possible, but unlikely since he even looks like Tobirama, I'd say the white hair comes from a/the mother--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Please remove him as brother o hashirama and son of butsuma. He is not. If he were the author would just have made it clear. Why make mystery about this unimportant character? If its not confirmed this information shouldn't be hereHolyn (talk) 23:57, March 24, 2013 (UTC)Holyn (talk) 23:55, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

The mirroring of the situations is too much to ignore. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:38, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

And why should a memory be a proof of brotherhood ? Aren't people allowed to remember or care for anyone beside their siblings ? There is absolutely no hint that Kawarama is a brother, there is a proof that he is a Senju clan member but that's all. What are you bunch of 12 year olds who write down on wiki what they wish to be true ? Its stupid to say he is a brother when no one refers to him as brother. And no one cared much about Kawarama at his funeral axcept for Itama who cried, Hashirama was upset because he was 7 years old. Butsuma didn't give a damn. It's embarrassing to put it on wikipedia in this case narutopedia that he is a brother, if you want to write fanon stories go to a fanon wiki and make him brother, clone, sayan or what ever you want. But erase it from here or I will unless you have proof from manga that someone says he is a brother or a databook or even Kishis statement from interview. I forgot my user name

Everything points out to him being their brother, their reactions, his appearance, his presence in the flashback and Hashirama's comment--Elveonora (talk) 22:49, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

When Madara said the blood of his brothers was in Senju hands, Hashirama remembered Itama and Kawarama, and we know Itama was killed by Uchiha. As mentioned before, and as the overwhelming majority who reads Naruto will tell you, those parallels and Butsuma's interactions with his other sons in Kawarama's funeral all point to Kawarama being their brother. Butsuma considered Hashirama's words a disrespect to Kawarama's memory, and was proud that Kawarama died fighting, so he punished Hashirama. Is it possible that he's not their brother? Sure, but it is infinitely more likely that they're siblings than it is that they're not. There's this thing called common sense, we use it here, Kishimoto doesn't have to spoonfeed us every bit of information. All the available info adds up to it. I invite you to try removing that from the article, but let me say this: every regularly editing user will revert your edits, and if you start a revert war, either the article gets protected, or you get blocked. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * They were talking about brothers. No matter how precious a sibling relative is, it doesn't mean that Hashirama thought of Kawarama like that. Apart from that, really? The four of them look like Russian nesting dolls... Tobirama and Kawarama almost look to be twins. Hashirama has full dark features, Tobirama full white, Kawarama has white hair black eyebrows and Itama is halfsies. Quite inventive if you ask me, too much thought for clansmen.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 05:28, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Gender and Kanji
Just noting that neither his gender nor his Japanese name is confirmed (except of the Senju-part, ofc). Seelentau 愛議 12:50, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Hashirama said he is male. He said he. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 15:29, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Confirmation = Japanese raw, not scanlation.--Elveonora (talk) 15:32, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Oh ok understood, sorry. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 15:34, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, about the gender, there's nothing that really indicates what gender he has. The only word besides his name is 奴, which can either mean "he" or "she". Seelentau 愛議 11:33, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * While it would be on the side of speculation, we do have a precedence, all other Senju with names ending in "ama" (間) are all male. I don't think we'd be far off to note that Kawarama was male. On the other hand we do only know one female Senju whose name meant peach tree...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:52, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I could note how the Kanji is written with the Kanji for 'woman', but that doesn't mean anything. Let's make him a boy. Seelentau 愛議 18:53, March 2, 2013 (UTC)

The article already says it was a male, singular of Shinobi means male ninja, not a Kunoichi, also "his" is being used--Elveonora (talk) 05:05, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Shinobi does not mean 'male ninja' and no, there is no 'his' used in the raw. Seelentau 愛議 11:49, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * "...when part of his body was retrieved, it was buried alongside his other fallen comrades..."79.223.93.104 (talk) 12:07, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * ...in the raw. I don't care about what the translation says. Seelentau 愛議 14:31, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Seel, we usually refer to female ninja as Kunoichi, thus "Shinobi" in singular sounds masculine, perhaps something more gender neutral should be used--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * You can call me Tau, if you want. Seel makes no sense in German^^ Shinobi is gender neutral. Seelentau 愛議 15:14, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Pan Tau? :D:D:D Perhaps eel ._.--Elveonora (talk) 15:26, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Infobox
Hey why is their part 1 on the age of his Infobox I don't think its needed ?--Jmootam1999 (talk) 22:31, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Changed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:56, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Image
In the new chapter, there is a panel where Hashirama remembers two boys. One of them is Itama, and the other one is obviously for me it's Kawarama. Should we put his image on the article?



186.204.178.25 (talk) 13:25, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * An image has been added.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:30, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't he mentioned in the previous chapter or so? --Questionaredude (talk) 14:44, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, he was.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:03, March 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't his debut chapter be back then if that is the case? --Questionaredude (talk) 15:10, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Not quite. Shisui was mentioned all the way back in part 1, but he didn't actually appear until flashbacks showed him during the Five Kage Summit arc. If we left mentions as debut, Itachi would have debuted all the way back to the introduction arc. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

age
this is going to sound really rude, but hear me out, kawarama senju was introduced in a flashback during part two when his age was stated, but the time he lived/died was prior to either "parts" of the series, so i don't see why his age says "part II:7" when the "part II" should be dropped, just because he appeared in that part. It was a flashback to a time long before the actual story, and this is what i meant by "rude", that's the kind of mistake a child would make, specifically in the anime when Zabuza's flashback depicted him as being reanimated even though he shouldn't have been back then, its the same thing. Since i've been here that's the most uncouth thing i've ever said, but there is some truth to it, unless there's another reason for the "part 2" being there that i didn't pick up on, but his appearance being in part 2 and not 1, even though he was already dead by both is the only reason i can think of why his age is, well, i think you all get the idea. --Caseather (talk) 21:13, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

He debuted in Part II. of the plot, it doesn't refer to the character living in fictional era of pre-x point in the series. For example, let's say it's currently year 2000 in Naruto. Even if Kishi had decided to move in time and in Part I. had shown someone living in 2030, while Part II. takes place 2004, we would have listed it as Part I. not Part III. or Part X --Elveonora (talk) 21:55, March 27, 2013 (UTC)