Talk:Magnet Release

New
Is this a new element or do they just say release ?--Black-Light (talk) 19:43, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * well it's just been given its name recently but we've seen the element in use from Sasori's use of the Third Kazekage as a puppet.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:42, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's most likely a combo of earth style (as metal is an element of the earth) and lighting style to create a electromagnetic field that the user can control and direct, Just as the wood style is earth and water and the larva style is earth and fire and so on! ~ Awar 06:22, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

I'm thinkin maybe advanced natures could consist of yin and yang chakra, not just basic chakra natures like earth for example 86.152.65.78 (talk) 08:16, November 18, 2011 (UTC) Otokage

Debut Game
For some reason I can't see this chakra nature's debut game even though if I go to edit it, it's there. Dueler65 (talk) 22:25, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the template is set up to show them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:00, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

How hasn't Gaara been shown a user with the latest chapter?
Gold Dust is heavier than Gaara's sand, hence why its the counter. Gaara had to overpower and lift his sand out of it remember? He would have to have Magnet Release to manipulate the Gold Dust into his Sand Clone and then manipulate it in the Sand Coffin that trapped Joki Boy. --NaruHina fan (talk) 18:44, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Gaara had to use his sand as a medium to carry the Gold Dust. He mixed it in with his own sand like he said. If he had manipulated it on its own then it'd say he possesses the kekkei genkai.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:48, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * But he had to manipulate it on its own to get it into the sand so it wouldn't fall out. Remember, Gold Dust was explicitly said to be heavier than Gaara's sand. It wouldn't have been able to be integrated into his sand without it being magnetized. --NaruHina fan (talk) 18:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * It still boils down to the fact that instead of mixing it with sand, he could've just manipulated the gold dust without the aid of his sand. Instead he chose to mix it with his own sand.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 19:15, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since he had to keep it secret to make the Second Mizukage think it was just his sand?--NaruHina fan (talk) 19:26, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Gaara might have used Magnet Release, but he could've easy not have. There's simply no solid proof. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:33, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add that just because Gold Dust is heavier than sand, this doesn't mean that Gaara is unable to intergrate the two together, it’s just a simple matter of quantity. Gaara's sand may be able to support the weight of an object but only up to a certain degree, if this value is exceeded as in the case of the Fourth Kazekage’s use of Gold Dust, then Gaara would be unable to manipulate the mixture. However, as long as the weight/concentration of the Gold Dust is kept below this level, then Gaara should have no trouble manipulating it but the additional weight would reduce the speed at which this could be done. Blackstar1 (talk) 19:36, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

SSM, you jumping the gun on situations like this is precisely why a great deal of your edits are reverted. If Deva didn't revert them fast enough, I'm certain I would. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

nature combination
is this lightning in earth release cause that makes alot of sence cause magnets are made from metal in metal is a part of earth iron nickel cobalt in any other metal part of the earth  lightning magnetize the metal or object  (74.141.196.236 (talk) 02:33, October 6, 2011 (UTC))
 * IF we knew, we'd list it in the article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:39, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes but the fourth kazekage controlled gold dust in his techniques. Gold isn't magnetic and it isn't even similar to earth (other than being solid). Gold is found in the earth as just pure gold and not a metal ore (like iron oxide or aluminium oxide)86.152.65.78 (talk) 08:14, November 18, 2011 (UTC)Otokage

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Gold_Dust Read the article including the trivia.Umishiru (talk) 08:25, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Third Kazekage?
Why are we speculating that the third kazekage has magnet release?
 * Because we already knew that his magnetism was a kekkei genkai, and magnetic abilities were recently shown to be an advanced nature. Forth Kazekage is basically the Third Kazekage using gold instead of iron. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:08, December 4, 2011 (UTC)

Third Kazekage
Third isn't in the template, in section wielders.GothicWarrior  (Dyskusja)  17:27, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Weird, I do don't see him either. And it doesn't seem to be a cache problem. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:02, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * And now the Fourth Kazekage is missing from the section? I am correct in saying he also has Magnet Release? Sparxs77 (talk) 14:39, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Hereditary
Shouldn't we mention that the element is not a family thing, since the 4th Kazekage can use it but his children can't?--

thats many kekkei genkai. its been stated several times in the serries that even though a character has came from the family line of said kekkei genkai doesnt mean they can use it, however it also means that they can pass the genes on to their children grandchildren et cetera.98.26.246.218 (talk) 00:51, June 20, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan
 * It's never been said that you have to inherit a kekkei genkai. The Sharingan is a prime example of this- only a select few are able to awaken the dōjutsu. I think the only people that it was said that had to inherit anything was the Byakugan.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 01:05, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez, and that's likely only "thanks to" inbreeding--Elveonora (talk) 12:25, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

although their from the same clan as a whole, they don't do full on inbreeding. ya see genetic mutations dont accur ( from the inbreeding, normaly) if the people (breeding) in question are more than 8 cousin'th (not sure how to spell that).98.26.246.218 (talk) 13:27, June 20, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Couldn't this technique be a hiden?
Multiple people have been shown to be able to use Lave style with no apparent blood relations to each other so maybe it's hiden and other villages found out how to use it Magnet Style is probably a hiden?--
 * No, Magnet Release is not a hiden technique.....The hiden techniques are passed down orally from generation to generation in certain regions or clans which is not the case in Magnet Release techniques nor in lava release techniques. akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 15:10, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

It's always possible that someone from those clans betrayed their village and went to another village. FirePit (talk) 15:46, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * It would still be a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:59, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Not a Kekkai Genkai!
Hey this isn't a kekkai genkai for one reason that is SUPER important. It says that the third learned it. He was not born with it. That means anyone with the skill to learn it, though it is probably difficult to learn, can in fact learn it. They don't need to be born with the ability, as illustrated by the third not learning it until later and not using it at birth. Someone deleted this, so I'm adding it back in. 192.183.30.172 (talk) 03:20, February 4, 2013 (UTC)Adam

Firstly, in order to use an ability that one was born with, one has to learn how to actually use it. Secondly she might have meant learning how he used his Magnet Release to manipulate Iron Sand. Thus your point is moot.71.71.58.231 (talk) 03:55, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

Thats not the case with basically any type of kekkai genkai that doesnt need to be developed over time. the sharingan doesnt show up automatically, so that would be a perfect example for your argument. a perfect argument for mine is ice release, which haku used with no effort at all when a tiny kid. they dont need to "learn" how to use the release. they just need to learn how to use the jutsu. but since people dont see it as i do, i wont bother putting it back the way i had it, since it will just be deleted again. 192.183.30.172 (talk) 05:38, February 4, 2013 (UTC)Adam
 * Sasuke learned how 'ta use the Sharingan's Techniques over time as he got stronger. Haku was said 'ta be a genious. 'Sides we didn't see Haku formin' some 'tha fancy ice mirrors when he was little. Oh and btw 'tha was Anime Only, it's not Canon, so once more yer point is rendered moot.71.71.58.231 (talk) 06:07, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

wow you sound kind of rude when you respond. anyways, the ability doesnt have to be powerful. haku used some small lame ice or water ball. then she killed everyone with big old ice spikes (kind of a powerful move to me) that shows that the ability is shown even at a young age. the 3rd kazekage is not mentioned to have any control over magnets before he learned it. the page itself says that he learned how to do it, not born with it. i would think it clear just by what is said in the post. 192.183.30.172 (talk) 06:18, February 4, 2013 (UTC)Adam


 * Firstly: Sory if 'mah comments seem rude. I'm don' mean fer it 'ta like that.


 * Secondly: 'Tha Ha thing is non-Canon. 'Tha Anime s full of so many inaccuracies 'ta bother arguin' over. Oh and 'ya know Haku is a boy right.


 * Thirdly: No one ever said 'tha Haku never learned how 'ta use it. it may have been at a young age. Sandaime Kazekage learned how 'ta use Magnet Release 'ta manipulate Satesu, and like all Kekkei Genkai was learned. Jus' cuz' 'ya got 'a Kekkei Genkai doesn't mean yer able 'ta use it off 'tha bat without any problem. Haku was 'a genious, so he learned how 'ta use it at an early age.

71.71.58.231 (talk) 06:43, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan ok fine i'll concede unless someone else comes and fights for my point at some point of time. if someone picks up where i left off, i'll help them, but until then, i'm done. oh and no disrespect, but itd be a lot easier to take you seriously and read through your comments quicker if you stopped putting ' and all the abbreviations. you dont have to write exactly how you speak. itd also help it seem a lot less rude. just a tip you dont have to follow it if you dont want to. 192.183.30.172 (talk) 06:48, February 4, 2013 (UTC)Adam

To end all of this, Chiyo said the Third Kazekage mimicked Shukaku's ability to manipulate sand using his own natural abilities. Hence why he used Sand Iron and not just sand. You misunderstood what was said. As for how Haku learned skills from his clan, ever heard of scrolls or records? How'd Yamato learn to use Hashirama's Wood Release techniques?--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:57, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

What buddy Cerez says, but also my 2 cents... 3rd's Iron Sand wasn't stated to be Magnet Release nor a KKG, people just made the connection cause it was similar to 4th's powers if I remember correctly--Elveonora (talk) 17:28, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * It was actually. It wasn't named however until the Fourth used it. I wondered the same thing when the Third was included first but Shounensuki cleared it all up. You can check this and then navigate from there. Before it used to just be called magnetic chakra kekkei genkai.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:50, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

But was magnetic chakra being a KKG something Suki sensei came up with or did a databook state such?--Elveonora (talk) 17:54, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Chiyo said the Third was born with the ability, and his three Iron Sand techniques used by Sasori were ranked as kekkei genkai in the Third Databook. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:27, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Then it's settled--Elveonora (talk) 23:54, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

Gaara
Do we classify him with the KKG he did retain the ability after Shukaku's removal? (Kuroiraikou (talk) 18:00, April 21, 2014 (UTC))

Personally I dont think he is a Magnet Release user, he never used Magnet Release jutsu, even if the cursed seals are magnet release, he didnt use it either(only with Shukaku's help). Not to mention that he's not a user on his page as well. Gerisama (talk) 15:04, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

magnet and sand
I want to let you know that this isn't to serve an argument against that, since I do not oppose the decision (but nor I support it), I couldn't care less to be honest. I just wanted to point out that inclusion of sand in a magnet release technique doesn't necessarily point to any connection whatsoever. There's no Steam Release, nor Powder Release, also Gyuki's Rasenshuriken had ink, yet there's no Ink Release as you obviously know. Therefore the substances the Tailed Beasts produce aren't necessarily chakra natures. The latest chapter proves nothing, just because Shukaku included sand there doesn't mean it was a result of Magnet Release--Elveonora (talk) 11:28, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Especially considering that when the MR Rasengan was used for the first time, there was no sand. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:45, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * People think just because Sand is used by Shukaku, it's magnet release because we know it can use it, but they forget that Shukaku can also control sand, and give its control to others.--Omojuze (talk) 11:49, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * As I know you two hate building logical conclusions as much as I like to do them, so that leaves only two reasons behind the sand being there and what to do abouut it;
 * 1) Kishimoto is a dick and just threw sand in there to be a dick and screw with us, so we ignore it.
 * 2) The sand does things because of Magnet Release, as per Iron Sand and Gold Dust, so we add it.
 * Would you two just prefer we ignore the sand like we do everything else that requires a little thought or can we go full ham and just say that the Magnet Release Rasengan inside that Rasenshuriken wasn't a Magnet Rasengan at all and just looked weird?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:54, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * And yes I am quite aware of how unnecessarily hostile that sounded.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:59, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem with a logical conclusion is that it isn't necessarily the only possible one. I can do the same, see: When the Magnet Release Rasengan was used, there was no sand. When the Magnet Release Rasen Shuriken was used, there was sand. Both times, Magnet Release was used, but only one time there was sand. Since the Magne Release factor stayed the same, we have to possibilities: Either the sand has nothing to do with Magnet Release, or Kishimoto forgot to draw sand the first time. Now, I don't say any of those options is more correct than the other. I say that as long we have more than one possibility (which is almost always the case), we should refrain from adding anything to any article. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:06, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

How this wiki functions at all is a damned mystery to me sometimes. I can foresee a battle coming but I'm not going to take part in it. Do what you wish.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:12, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, those things can't be avoided when different people with different opinions and mentalities come together. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:17, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't worry Ulti, the workings of this wiki too are beyond my comprehension, at least that much we can agree with. Everyone's "logic" is different and everyone deems it superior to the next person's. I for one have to smash my head against a wall daily because of the state the Shinju article is in. Too bad logical conclusions mean anything in this place only when you are a sysop though--Elveonora (talk) 12:28, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Considering not everyone seems to agree with the decision making sand techniques Magnet Release, I suggest we at least state "presumed" rather than making it seem like a fact, because it simply isn't a fact.--Elveonora (talk) 18:05, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with elveo, it should be listed as "presumed" because sand jutsu's being magnet release just simply isnt a fact yet. Munchvtec (talk) 18:21, August 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * I've played this game twice and finally made some progress. I refuse to play a third time. Explain the sand in Naruto's Magnet Release Rasenshuriken or no presumed. That is all. You're not going to blatantly ignore sand flying around a Shukaku-infused Magnet Release technique, the similar eye markings around Gaara and his father;s (a Magnet Release user) eyes, and Shukaku's own Magnet affinity just because it doesn't fit your bill of evidence. For most of us, the Sand Rasenshuriken was the final straw. In the words of one of my favorite TV personalities, "Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining." These circular arguments are getting tiresome. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:33, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Uh-oh. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 20:54, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * How does presence of sand imply any connection to Magnet? Sand is something Shukaku can control, it can also use Magnet, but that doesn't mean sand is controlled with Magnet. Also Gaara's eyes were stated to be because of insomnia. Shukaku himself doesn't get any eye rings when using Magnet, nor did Naruto when using his Magnet Rasengans. There's simply no evidence whatsoever besides barely vague connections.--Elveonora (talk) 22:43, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Remember the very fact that Shukaku being a tailed beast was reconned so I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing to be changed. Also, since he/it's a Racoon-dog thing the eye rings are a consistent thing. The only thing I can say that's in your favor is Naruto not gaining any "eye shadow" in use. --Questionaredude (talk) 01:33, August 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * There is nothing vague about it. The Nine-Tails was originally said to be a natural disaster. Since you like to use Gamabunta's "bags under his eyes" being a sign of insomnia comment so much, consider this: By Gamabunta, Shukaku was originally stated to be an ordinary monster that was spawned from a Sunagakure priest and he called jinchūriki "psychic mediums". So please forgive me if I say that Gamabunta fed us a crock of ****. He isn't a credible source. At all. The characters are not Kishi so don't give me the crock about Gamabunta's words being "proof from Kishi" as you did in that last nonsensical argument of yours on Gaara's talk page. They're not. They're Gamabunta's words which have since been proven wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Did I mention, though not by Bunta, Shukaku was originally said to be the reason behind Gaara's sand shield (that one was recently retconned as well)? Gaara's insomnia rings were bullshit the moment his father displayed the very same rings. There is literally no reason for sand to magically appear, from out of nowhere, around a Shukaku-empowered Magnet Release technique for shits and giggles when Gaara, also user of sand and son of a Magnet Release user, had the beast within him. Its no different from Roshi using Lava or Han steam. He used his tailed beast's abilities to manipulate sand, which makes his sand techniques Magnet Release. I'm sorry that Kishi doesn't understand a damn thing about Science and therefore doesn't know that sand isn't magnetic (gold isn't magnetic in the normal sense, either, as we've already discussed), but this is the same man who just had Sakura punch a hole in Naruto's side and pump his heart with her fist, completely ignoring the fact that she'd have shattered his ribcage and lungs in the process of doing that on a real person. This is fiction. If you can't accept that, then I can't help you, but I will not let you just throw blatant evidence out the window. When you can properly explain how sand just happened to materialize around a Magnet Release technique, why Gaara's father manifests the exact same rings around his eyes when he preforms Magnetic techniques, and why you refuse to acknowledge why Shukaku's jinchūriki is suddenly exempt from the same beast-host ability sharing that every other jinchūriki is capable of (Han, Roshi, Fu, Utakata, B; they literally all possess their beasts abilities and only B was on friendly terms with his beast), and subsequently back it up with manga/databook references, I'll gladly accept your arguments. Until then, this case is closed. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 06:48, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

If we should try and compare this to some real life things, then it is acturly kinda possible. If the sand grains had magnetite (Fe3O4) in it, then it is magnetic. This type of sand can be found someplace's on our Earth, like Santa Cruz in California. If we then assume that most of the sand in the Narutoverse is like this, then it could be a solution. --Kasan94  Talkpage 11:08, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Why not? Shukaku's body is made of sand and it can control sand. That doesn't mean it controls the sand with its Magnet Release. The reason sand appeared is not any different than why Ink appeared in Gyuki's Rasenshuriken. Sand is a substance Shukaku produces like Ink is a substance Gyuki produces, but I will ask you again, where do you see any connection with sand around Shuriken and sand being controlled by Magnet?

For Gaara's rings, they may be because of Magnet Release. But if Gaara has Magnet Release, he does from his father, not Shukaku. Shukaku NOR Naruto have those rings when using Magnet, please don't ignore that. Therefore even if Gaara has those rings because of Magnet Release, there's no evidence the possible Magnet Release of his has anything to do with sand control.--Elveonora (talk) 13:59, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Foxie, it's up to you to present adequate evidence. And even then, evidence still isn't a fact, you don't have either. Unless there's a good reason to believe that the evidence can be taken as fact, my hand will be forced to revert the craziness--Elveonora (talk) 12:52, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Where exactly are you guys going with this, no one really needs to stress about whether or not it is magnet release or isn't. just adding a trivia note for now should be fine. You guys are trying to make a fact out of nothing. Munchvtec (talk) 12:57, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know, having Gaara listed as Magnet Release user and all sand techniques too as such probably helps Foxie and select few others sleep at night or something.--Elveonora (talk) 12:59, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Ten Tailed Fox@ why exactly do you want something that isn't confirmed to be listed as a fac when it isn't? Also i see no reason to bend over and listen to a select few users about changing something. Its not revealed as Magnet so it WONT be listed until further notice. Munchvtec (talk) 13:02, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

For once I know im not wrong here. Munchvtec (talk) 13:04, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

But doesn't Gaara use chakra infused sand? would it be wrong to assume mixing his sand wit surrounding sand is why he can control so much at one time?FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 13:19, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

The discussion should end now, i know im no big wig or anything but this is all speculation. sand jutsu has been around for ten plus years so if no mention of it being magnet release was made then it probably isn't. Munchvtec (talk) 13:22, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the thing is that Foxie and others went ahead and listed Gaara as Magnet user and all sand techniques. Feel free to start reverting them if you want--Elveonora (talk) 15:50, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure that Gaara's sand techniques are Magnet Release... but I agree with Munchvtec and Elveonora. We don't have any proof for that, so it is pure speculation. I think Gaara and his technique should not be listed as Magnet Release (user) until we have a proof on this, just like Scorch Release is not listed as composed by Fire and Wind even if wath Minato said on the Rasenshuriken/Amaterasu fusion made it pretty logical to assume...Gilgamesh85 (talk) 17:09, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara said that he infused his chakra into the sand at the beginning of the series, hence why he carries that special little gourd around on his back all the time with "chakra infused sand" in it. Magnet releases description is "allows the user to convert chakra into magnetic forces and magnetise an object." (See the connection between the chakra infused sand and the allowing of one to convert their chakra into substances making it magnetic?) it really says next to nothing about the object having to already be magnetic.

Saying that gold or sand isn't magnetic is completely irrelevant due to this, but heck, even kiba noted that gaaras sand had a strong stench of blood (blood has iron in it people! :p)

As such i would be siding with the FOR listing him as a magnet release user as the facts and evidence just seems to blatantly obvious to ignore. --Kiriako (talk) 19:32, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Very, VERY nice try. You have almost managed to persuade me with the "blood has iron in it" part... Except Gaara controlled sand before he had blood in it. Not to mention explain this: if sand control is Magnet Release, why does said release works only on sand? Why doesn't Gaara magnetize shuriken like Toroi? Gaara is yet to be shown move anything but sand.--Elveonora (talk) 22:34, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why did the Fourth Kazekage only use Gold Dust? Why did the Third Kazekage only use Iron dust/sand? They have yet to be shown moving anything than what we've seen. --Questionaredude (talk) 22:56, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * To subdue Shukaku, why not? Also Gaara has blocked kunai and shuriken with his sand so many times, they didn't get magnetized, explain that.--Elveonora (talk) 23:03, August 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because, Like Lava release, the elemental names denotation doesn't automatically dictate the effect. Remember Lava Release and Rubber, quicklime(lolwut?), and yellow puke. Magnetisation doesn't have to attract just metal, following this pattern. It could also be used figuratively, as in the attraction of other objects. In this case, sand. -- Koto' Talk Page-My Contributions 23:27, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately for Elve, we don't need to convince him. The consensus on Gaara's page, after the recent revelation, was unanimous and most of the arguments here are for it to. Its settled until he can refute the evidence with chapter, page, and panel. Also, Elve, wasn't it you who said "absence of of evidence is not evidence of absence"? But now you want to say that just because Gaara hasn't magnetized anything (not to mention the Third and Fourth Kazekage only magnetized their chosen mediums of dust/iron) other than sand as proof? Don't make me laugh. Do not forget that Gaara's sand, by his own admission, was "special" and he also possessed the ability to make new sand by grinding earth with his sand. Why not just take control of surrounding sand? Why did he have to make it with his pre-existing sand? To magnetize it? I can't answer that, but the evidence we do have outweighs the evidence you severely, severely lack. Until such a time that changes, this is over. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 23:45, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

So lemme get this straight -- here's the support of Gaara being a Magnet Release user and all of his sand manipulation techniques being Magnet Release: Yeah, it's looking like this debate is pretty much over. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 05:57, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaara has the rings around his eyes that are required (for his father) to use Magnet Release.
 * Sand isn't magnetic, but neither is gold, yet the latter can be manipulated by Magnet Release.
 * Gaara has manipulated Gold Dust as well (That makes Gaara a Magnet Release user).
 * Shukaku has been shown to use Magnet Release in conjunction with sand (with Naruto), and was Gaara's tailed beast.
 * Gaara can only manipulate his sand and not surrounding sand, suggesting Gaara could have altered the chemical properties of his sand to make it magnetic like his father altered the properties of his gold dust to make it magnetic (Looks like the manipulation of sand is magnetic as well).
 * Are you done? Good. Bee'cuz, I hate to repeat myself, and others, needlessly and I've never seen people who like to beat on a dead horse like you people do. So here I go:


 * 1 - That point helps
 * 2 - Like I said before: ''"Remember Lava Release and Rubber, quicklime(lolwut?), and yellow puke. Magnetisation doesn't have to attract just metal, following this pattern. It could also be used figuratively, as in the attraction of other objects. In this case, sand." - Yea, I meant what I said.
 * 3 - Umm, only carried it. So that's moot.
 * 4 - Yea, that kinda started this discussion.
 * 5 - Gaara stated so and read point 2.
 * You were right about one thing though. This discussion should be finished. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 06:14, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

My bad for beating on a dead horse. I just need to clarify and confirm the evidence of Gaara being a Magnet Release user and his sand manipulation being Magnet Release, before I continue editing this wiki as such. But we can agree on this: The discussion is finished. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 06:49, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Dont be, it's just that some people around this discussion tend to take what being said to them lightly, too lightly. So light, they either ignore it and completely disregard it. If more people would take the time to just analyse the evidence given to them, then these discussions wouldnt get so hectic and become so perpetual. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 07:07, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Has anyone of you guys read my RTS about this topic? Maybe you should to that. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:33, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Foxie, what revelation, what evidence? You must be in some sort of delirium to see it. But anyway, screw this place, it has lost its standards. If you wish for this to be Foxiepedia the fanon haven, go on.--Elveonora (talk) 09:11, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

@TTF and others, if you haven't noticed, elv just started reverting. @elv, seriously? You lost, get over it. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 17:16, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * @MangekyoSasuke and others: before stopping Elveonora's doings, read here.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 17:20, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Mangekyo, since when is this a wrestling watch? Popular opinion isn't a fact--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * A consensus was reached between a huge chunk of users and several of the admins. Elveonora mass reverting everything on his own whim is vandalism: plain and simple. This discussion can continue,but vandalism shall not be tollerated. I will personally revert back everything Elveornora removed until such a time that the previous consensus is overturned with new evidence. Thank you. For all confused about the recent reversions, here, which is where the actual consensus took place. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 17:36, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Let it be known however. Despite this being given the greenlight by me, I still think it is absolute bullock and we continue to sit with thumbs in our mouths begging Kishimoto-sama to whisper lovingly into our ears before we can be arsed enough to use our brains. With that said, I cannot within reason, deny the arguments provided. Despite every fiber of my being telling me otherwise, we go back to the assbackass stupidness of waiting.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:51, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * I and the other users who agreed on the changes agree with you, but what can I do at this point? Sand appearing where no sand should, and in a Magnet Release technique, aided by a beast with Magnet Release, which was once sealed within a user of Sand should be undeniable proof that Gaara possesses Magnet Release, all the other evidence withstanding. That said... the wait goes on. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 17:54, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Elve, I find your hypocrisy distasteful. You've been whining people's ears off that Ashura is a jinchūriki - something I agree with because all the evidence is there - however that hasn't been stated. You demanded he be listed as jinchūriki because Gaara's similar circumstances led to his being listed a Magnet Release user, but now because Ashura isn't listed as jinchūriki, you're kicking up shit over something else because you couldn't get your way? Is that what's happening here? I agree with TTF. A consensus was reached. You reverting everything by yourself is vandalism.--Reliops (talk) 18:50, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not to mention downright stupidity at its finest, but as you've heard, Seel made his own conclusion, based on his own opinions (which somehow constitutes fact now), which Eleve leaped on, and Ultimate gave the order so its done (not that I can really blame him). Until Kishimoto gives us the answer on a giant flashing billboard, there is apparently nothing we can do about the obvious any longer. We just have to accept, as readers, what we know to be fact from Kishimoto's clues (as readers are supposed to) and turn a blind eye here until the mindset around here changes for the better. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 19:48, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * What boggles my mind is that apparently the fact that one Magnet Release Rasengan had sand in it and the other didn't somehow dismisses all other evidence - even though the reason for inconsistency is obvious given fact that the first Magnet Rasengan was for sealing and the second was for attacking? I just don't get it. And of course Elve has to go ahead and turn this in an edit war because he couldn't get his way with the Ashura thing--Reliops (talk) 19:55, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Reliops, I would appreciate if you stopped throwing false accusations at me, this has nothing to do with that particular topic at all. To address this, it's not our job to determine what's true, but the author's. Opinion of majority still isn't a fact. There is nothing to be concluded from what we know. I'm not disregarding anything, it's you who are seeing connections where there may be none--Elveonora (talk) 20:02, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * False accusation? I think not. You were demanding Ashura be listed as a jinchūriki based on the same logic we listed Gaara as a Magnet Release user. I agree with that logic, however when you didn't get you way with Ashura, you brought up the fact that Gaara was listed as Magnet Release user. A few days later, you pull this nonsense, knowing full well that this wikipedia is melting pot of passive aggressiveness consisting of individuals that will disagree for the sake of disagreeing. There is a mountain of evidence pointing towards the fact Gaara has Magnet Release. We all know it. It's unfortunate we haven't been told he has it in big, bold letters, but anyone that has actually stuck with the manga this long knows that Kishi doesn't always fill the gaps for us. We have taken liberties in the past that we shouldn't had and made assumptions that turned to be false, but this is not one of them and undoing this decision is a mistake, plain and simple.


 * And you say it's not our job to determine what's true? Don't make me laugh. I can go through your contribution history and come up with dozens of examples of you connecting dots because they make sense even though that's not what we've been explicitly told by Kishimoto. What really grinds my gears is that we had actually - finally - come to a consensus, and you just had to muck it up for no good reason.--Reliops (talk) 20:07, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * We need to put Magnet Release for the Third Eye technique at least, Fourth Kazekage used it by gathering the Gold Dust he manipulated by MR. Anyway, I don't see how having sand around a Rasengan make it MR, the core dimension doesn't have any sand in it so Naruto can gather it around the technique, which meant it was the same as Gyuuki's ink, Shukaku can turn its Chakra into sand.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 20:16, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I'm going to have to oppose you on that because it makes too much sense.--Reliops (talk) 20:20, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

My reasoning behind wanting Ashura listed as a jinchuuriki was usage of Tailed Beast Skill, that's not the same logic at all. Ashura's usage of it is clear as day by looking at a manga picture. But now show me again the mountain of evidence pointing to sand being controlled with Magnet Release, because Seelentau's analysis proves otherwise, there's a mountain of evidence against. Put your hand on your chest and tell me with clear conscience that sand control is Magnet Release and that it's a fact. Facts don't need to be proven, they are fact independently on an individual's understanding and perception of them. So if you say it's a fact, give proof. A chapter page that can be used to reference that--Elveonora (talk) 20:23, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ahem, Seel isn't the manga. He isn't the mangaka. He is a translator with no translated evidence to back up his theory therefore his words are not fact and cannot be used in the face of a mountain of manga evidence to the contrary. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:26, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

It's the same logic insofar as all signs pointing to it despite it not being stated. And instead of wasting my effort with you on a long wall of text like TFF, who at some point, I imagine, was making too much sense since you still went ahead with undoing everything, I'm going to keep it down to a few simple points.

1. Gaara's father gets the exact same rings when he activates Magnet Release. This was not just thrown in there because Kishi likes the style, and only Gaara's father gets those rings. 2. Gaara's father uses the same stlye] and even used the Third Eye 3. Shukaku posseses Magnet Release and we have seen it utilised once with his cursed seals ability, and once again as an offensive measure - at which point you can clearly ] sand - which makes it blatantly obvious sand is magnetised through Magnet Release as it's also Shukaku's means of defence 4. Gaara manipulated Gold Dust

Like you said in the Ashura talk page, there is a difference between playing it and playing it dumb. This would be the later.--Reliops (talk) 20:42, August 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not going so say anything else on the subject after this. Every other sand or sand-like manipulate has been revealed to be a Magnet Release user. I'm not saying that Gaara has it as Kekkei Genkai, like how Naruto has multiple advanced elements without Kekkei Genkai thanks to his tailed beasts, but maybe like Naruto getting the Magnet release from Shukaku, so did Gaara.—Steveo920 (Talk) 16:42, August 12, 2014


 * Yes and I see ink flying around a shuriken too. And acid and steam and so on. Where's your evidence the sand is suspended there with Magnet Release?--Elveonora (talk) 20:39, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Because ink is Gyūki's ability, Acid is Saiken's, and Steam is Kokuō's. So you're really going to tell me that magnetized sand isn't Shukaku's (a sand monster who can control sand and magnetism?), or are you really that delusional? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:41, August 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay enough. All of you. What's done is done. No back and forth is going to change either of your minds, so all of this ends here. Until stated otherwise this discussion is over.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:55, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Just to respond. @Foxie, How do you know the sand is magnetized? @Reliops, and none of those points prove sand being manipulated with Magnet--Elveonora (talk) 20:59, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT:How soon we forget... Remember when "Magnet Release" was unnamed, and was just the special ability the Third was born with? I do. We're doing the exact damned thing now, as we did then. Jinton wansnt named till Toroi's usage, it was continued with the 4th Kazekage's usage. Further on with Shukaku and Naruto, but something that we forget is that putting pieces together is hardly (hardly) a new practice to the way we present information around here. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then why bother even going against the grain? Fact is, if anyone opposes this change, don't bother add the Kazekage in your argument, because that makes your argument hypocritical and invalid. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 21:03, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

this discussion is over unless the manga or anime specifically stated that they are magnet release then it isnt. like elveo said feel free to revert all those edits. Munchvtec (talk) 11:20, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

Shinra Tensei & Bansho Tenin
Seeing how we added Karura as a Will Materialization user simply based on the fact that her will lives in Gaara's sand, I propose that we add ST and BT as Jitonjutsu, simply based on the fact that they manipulate attractive and repulsive forces, which is how magnets work. This goes against my deepest beliefs, but since you guys are so into adding anythinglikely to an article, we should do it everywhere and not only where you like to see it. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:19, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on physics, there are four forces: gravity, electromagnetism, nuclear weak force and nuclear strong force. Deva Path powers like the Chibaku Tensei, Shinra Tensei & Bansho Tenin are more along the lines of gravity (I mean a Deva path power did create a gravitational moon), and Magnet Release is closer to electromagnetism. Based on that, I'd say things are okay the way they are. -- WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 20:24, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * You seem to be doing this out of spite, Seel.Umishiru (talk) 20:25, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seel, I'd ridicule you for your brat throwing himself on floor behavior, but sadly I'm inclined to agree with you. I understand that (Koto was it?) made the page, so he feels inclined to add whatever will stuff he wants there, but that doesn't mean it should turn into fanon. @WindStar, Seel knows quite well they aren't Magnet, he just "plays along"--Elveonora (talk) 20:27, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because I despite the weird "system" this wiki has ever since ShounenSuki left. I mean, I have nothing to lose here, but the way this wiki is going is wrong on a deep level. I can't actually wait for a fourth databook, there will be so much "HA, TOLD YOU SO" thrown around, it'll result in a black hole. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:30, September 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Funny thing tho, that there's actually greater chance that the two aforementioned techniques may be Jinton, than Karura having used/using Will Materilization, which is zero--Elveonora (talk) 20:34, September 6, 2014 (UTC)

@Seel, what I meant is that you shouldn't have brought up this topic in particular, because I bet that some folks may even take you seriously and rush to list those techniques as Magnet Release :D--Elveonora (talk) 20:40, September 6, 2014 (UTC)

This is just a theory
Don't kill me. I'm just asking if you guys think its reasonable that Magnet Release is a mix of Earth and Lightning release? No changes, no arguments, just talking. Riptide240 (talk) 02:12, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * This is probably something you should bring up in the forum. Like you said, it is just a theory, and isn't a topic that improves the article simply because there is no manga proof that Magnet Release is made of Earth and Lightning. Although possible, this topic is forum talk. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 02:27, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those questions are for the forums. Not talk pages. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 02:27, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, @Foxie, I'm sure he got the memo from my first comment :)-- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 05:02, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Magnets and sand again
"I don't care if sand is magnetic or not. You forgot, in your analysis, to mention that Toroi Magnetized people. Last I checked, I don't stick to magnets. Science won't help you with Kishi. Magnet Release can magnetize non magnetic substances. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke 15:09, September 8, 2014 (UTC)"
 * You are not allowed not to care. You people used science to prove the difference between Toroi's and Yondi's magnetism, so I am allowed to use science to say that Gaara does not have Magnet Release. He didn't use it and resorted to his own sand to move something he would've been able to move without help if he had Magnet Release. Please debunk that. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:12, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I've never used science in my explanations because Kishi has told us he sucks at it. Toroi magnetized people proving non magnetic substances can be magnetized with MR. End of argument. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:15, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, humans too are diamagnetic (with iron in our blood being magnetic), thus is sand and anything that isn't magnetic. The thing is, the force of magnetic field required to repulse the sand would have to be immense. It would be much, much, much easier for Gaara to just use metallic substance to save himself the chakra. And it wouldn't explain why repulse just sand and not other things--Elveonora (talk) 15:13, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Fox: Yeah, but Toroi's Jiton is different than Yondi's. What goes for Toroi's mustn't necessarily go for Yondi's Magnet Release. And even if it did, Gaara still didn't move the gold on its own, he used his sand. Again: If Gaara has Magnet Release, he would not need his sand to move his father's gold. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:18, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

@Elve: You assume though that Kishi went through that thought process, when again, he says he sucks with science. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:18, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Also, note, Gaara never said he had to mix his sand with gold dust. He simply said that he did. Very different than you're portraying Seel. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:20, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why Gaara mixed his own sand with golden dust can be easily explained, his own sand already is soaked with his own chakra, thus is easier to move than gold dust that wasn't soaked in his chakra, thus he mixed the two for easier manipulation of the latter--Elveonora (talk) 15:20, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * There is that too. Gaara has to infuse sand with his chakra in order to move it, which fits the bill of MR because he has to magnetize the sand to move it. He may simply have wanted to infuse it with his chakra. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:23, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Fox, what did you call those sentences again? Grasping for straws, I believe? You're the worst hypocrite I've ever seen, I can't imagine how someone like you became a sysop. Jesus fucking christ. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:24, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Hasn't Shukaku manipulated sand via magnet release? —Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:26, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Grasping for straws is when you have no support from the manga and continue arguing for any little thing you can grasp for, which you are still doing I might add. I never argued science from day one because it doesn't apply with Kishi. You are the one who wanted to argue Science, which doesn't work here, and I am simply pulling my examples from the manga. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:26, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * @Cerez: He has. When he sealed Madara using his cursed seal (it failed due to Susanoo, but still). That was the first confirmed example, proving he can do it in general as well. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:27, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * TheUltimate3's opinion: Don't care just everyone stay away form my Talk Page this time. Seriously.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 15:29, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

As I said, sand too is diamagnetic, so can be repulsed by magnetic fields. But:
 * why would someone do that? It would be much easier to just use metallic powder instead of sand
 * why repel just sand and not... anything else? Unless anyone can answer these two question, I'm having doubts--Elveonora (talk) 15:30, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Cerez: He hasn't. He didn't use Magnet Release in the sand tomb thing, he used his cursed seal.
 * @Fox: Well, I have support from both the manga and real life: Gaara did not lift the gold dust using Magnet Release, but with his own sand. He would've lifted the gold dust directly. Also, sand is not magnetic.
 * @Elve: Sand is not diamagnetic. At least not desert sand. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:31, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * @Elve: Again you assume Kishi went through that same thought process. Kishi very clearly doesn't care for science and it shows here. We know that MR can magnetize non-magnet substances, like humans, from Toroi and Gaara himself said he needed sand saturated in his "special chakra " to move it at all. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:33, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

@Tau, Gold probably requires a different (stronger or weaker) diamagnetic field than sand. And even if it doesn't, you're forgetting the fact that he was hiding the gold dust. Why would he want No-brow to know what he was doing? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 15:35, September 8, 2014 (UTC) Edit: @Tau, Anything and everything that isn't para, ferro, ferri, or anti-ferromagnetic is inherently diamagnetic. That includes sand. Look it up. Better yet, just look up both magnetism and diamagnetism on wikipedia (the English one, I have no idea what the German one looks like) MangekyoSasuke (talk) 15:40, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * But we can't argue science if the beast used it. It becomes fact at this point.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:38, September 8, 2014 (UTC)<

@Seel, sand is diamagnetic. @Foxie, just because Kishi isn't an expert at science doesn't mean he is completely clueless, he applied science into the series before--Elveonora (talk) 15:39, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well, as I said before, you're all lost beyond saving. I'm really sorry for this wiki. Tau out. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:42, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * The beast did and can use it. Naruto proved the connection between Shukakus seal markings and MR, Shukaku was shown using both sand and the seal together so that's that. There is no arguing that. It happened. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 15:40, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Lovely. We lose a translator. This wiki is really going downhill if all people can do is bitch and argue every single day and CERTAIN sysops like to be assholes to those who try to solve the problem. (facepalm) --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 15:46, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Seels frustration is justified, although he is wrong, sand can be moved with a magnetic field. That still tho doesn't mean it is in fact moved with a magnetic field in Shukaku and Gaara's cases, that's jumping the gun--Elveonora (talk) 15:48, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, this is just great. Seems like Seelentau may pull a ShounenSuki. Great job guys, is this what you wanted? To push away our translator just to prove you're correct? See what egos do? "You're wrong, I'm right" this and that. This has clearly become a bigger issue than it needs to be. -- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 16:01, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

There's always a middle ground with which both the opposition and proposition are happy--Elveonora (talk) 16:04, September 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I initially thought sand was a mixture of earth and wind release. Then this magnet thing pops up...-- WindStar7125 WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 16:12, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

If Seelentau wants to take his ball and go home because his pride can't bear being wrong about something, that's his decision. Maybe he'll come back when he feels like it, maybe he doesn't. I, for one, have no intention of bending over backwards to placate him or feed his ego.--Reliops (talk) 16:28, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

If you guys already decided that all of Shukaku's jinchuriki have Magnet Release, then why are you guys still arguing about Gaara. And Gaara's already listed as a user on his info box, yet not on the Magnet Release page itself. Fix Riptide240 (talk) 19:45, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * That page will update itself automatically in a day or so. The argument is over. He's added, its done, the end. If they want to continue to argue it, that's their business, but it won't change anything unless new evidence comes to light. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 19:47, September 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * OK good Riptide240 (talk) 19:57, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

judging by...
4th Kazekage's natures, Magnet is Wind+Earth? 0_o Kinda disappointing, where's Lightning? :(--Elve Talk Page 10:25, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaara had Wind, Earth and Lightning. Like I said, we haven't gotten to advanced natures yet. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 10:28, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Seel posted the 4th Kazekage's data book page and he didn't have lightning. Unless it's an error, then magnet can't use lightning either.--Soul reaper (talk) 10:46, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * You really need to read my comment. We haven't gotten to advanced natures yet. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 10:49, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * I read it, obviously we're not going to change the page until we get the information from those pages. I was merely pointing out that either Elve will be correct, or there will be a discrepancy.--Soul reaper (talk) 10:52, November 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * I doubt we will have 2 different Magnet natures tho--Elve Talk Page 11:20, November 4, 2014 (UTC)

so...
Does Jin no Sho say that sand is moved with Jinton? Because someone has removed Gaara as user--Elve Talk Page 17:20, November 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * It doesn't mention Magnet Release in any article related to Gaara. He also doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai. It's like really safe to say that he can't use it (the KKG). If he can use the nature itself, I don't know. He would've been able to while he was a Jinchuriki, but not anymore. Kishimoto said Gaara could still move sand because it was his trademark, along with the eyes. But that is no in-story-explanation.
 * Also, Rasa somehow learned Jiton, too. But he has Kekkei Genkai and Hiden listed. ._. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:30, November 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * This databook was all kinds of useful wasn't it.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 17:33, November 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not a single implication in any of the sand techniques' entries about magnet stuff? If not, then we might as well mass-remove the Jinton listing...--Elve Talk Page 17:35, November 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's like this databook did everything right for me and what I told you guys. It just effed up the timeline, the most important thing for me. ._. On a related note: this. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:38, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

@Elv, Hold up before doing anything. @Tau, can you translate the part of the databook on the beasts themselves? Also, I'm sure you've noticed, but a lot of the information in the databook appears to be either outdated or contradicting to the manga. Maybe Kishi started writing it long term and forgot to update it? Speculative, I know, but the fact that there are errors are apparent. I don't think we should take this as proof of sand not being magnet release, at least not just yet. Maybe wait for the fanbook? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:26, November 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not changing anything? I just asked if the databook clarifies the whole sand-magnet thing...--Elve Talk Page 19:44, November 6, 2014 (UTC)

Basic Natures
Looking at Rasa's infobox, we can see that he has three basic natures: Wind, Water and Earth Release. Knowing that Magnet Release is a kekkei genkai – and as such is a mix of two basic natures – all we have to do is to look at the possible combinations of Rasa's natures. There would also be Yin Release, but we have never seen anything that looks like a kekkei genkai with Yin or Yang Release as its components, so the only logical conclusion in my eyes is that Magnet Release is formed by combining Wind and Earth Release. The only problem is wheter to include that in the article's page. Any thoughts?-- JOA20 13:19, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Wind+Water=Ice
 * Wind+Earth
 * Water+Earth=Wood
 * Normally, this would be logical fallacity, since just because there's apparently only one possibility, it doesn't mean that it's the correct one. It could be neither. But then again, this is a manga and I doubt that Kishimoto would make it any more complicated. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:24, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * "There would also be Yin Release, but we have never seen anything that looks like a kekkei genkai with Yin or Yang Release as its components" Blaze Release? Unless that really is Fire+Lightning and absence of Lightning in Itachi's case is just another of the databook's lists of errors. Unless Blaze really is just Fire+Shape Transformation, in which case: fuck my face please.--Elve Talk Page 13:27, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, first of all, we can't just go and declare anything an error just because it doesn't fit our established stuff. Itachi has no Raiton and as long as this is not proven to be wrong, it's the truth. That means Enton can't be Katon + Raiton. Now, for Katon + Yin, if I recall correctly, it was said that Yin and Yang exist outside of the five basic chakra natures and according to Kakashi's explanation, advanced natures are made by mixing two basic natures. While this could've been retconned without our knowledge, I'd say that Inton has nothing to do with Enton. Then the databook also doesn't explain anything about Enton, it just repeats what we know and then there's another sentence were it's called Katon. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:35, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * So the databook explains jack shit, really helpful. And since it's again called Katon just like in the 3rd databook, it's getting more and more likely that Sasuke just made Enton up, simply gave his black Katon a fancy nickname without it being a different nature, at all. In which case, we would have to delete Enton article and merge it with Katon. EDIT: I wonder what SaiST has to say on the matter...--Elve Talk Page 14:41, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes Elveonora!! Finally, something that makes sense xD--Omojuze (talk) 14:44, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * If the databook says nothing else about Blaze Release, then that means it's essentially an advanced fire release, correct? That's what can be gathered from what Kishi has giving us. Amaterasu is "the highest level of Fire Release", so Blaze Release is a nature that constantly produces fire of the "highest level". Since a KG is involved in the whole thing, it could be a unique "advanced nature" in that it uses a bloodline-enhanced version of a single basic nature, instead of 2 separate natures. I hope Magnet Release is given a better explanation.16:25,11/8/2014 16:25, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, En(炎) and Ka(火) both essentially mean "flame", but if I'm not mistaken, En is written in a way that presents it as greater than Ka (Correct me if I'm wrong, Seel/Tau/oh-great-translator-whom-I-hope-not-to-offend). So the name itself pretty much says it's just a superior version of Fire Release.16:48,11/8/2014 16:48, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

@Seel, is 3rd Kazekage given name and natures in the databook?--Elve Talk Page 16:36, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * So... from what I've seen, Kagutsuchi was referred to as Fire Release in the databook... Meh... guess it lends credibility that the highest level of Fire Release is Blaze Release... • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 16:40, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nope, Elve. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:41, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * So if the highest level of Fire Release is Blaze Release, then highest level of Wind Release is what, Hurricane Release? Highest level of Water Release is what, Tsunami Release? Highest level of Earth Release is what, Earthquake Release? Highest level of Lightning Release is what, Magnet Release? 0_o That my friend, is fanon-quality material if I have ever seen one and I hope the author can do better than that. @Seel, well, that's precious, most the other Kage were given names...--Elve Talk Page 16:45, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * So far, there's really no indication that Enton is an advanced nature. As much as it pains me to say that after changing my beliefs to the pro-advanced elemental side. You might say "but uh, it's a Kekkei Genkai?!ß1". Yes, it is. The Byakugan is a Kekkei Genkai, too. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:49, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

Fanon-quality material? Says the one that came up with Hurricane release, Tsunami release and earthquake release. Considering Kagutsuchi was referred to as Fire Release in the databook and Blaze in the manga, I'm thinking Blaze could be just superior fire or something Sasuke made up. • WindStar7125     16:51, November 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well I hoped the author could give us a better final villain than Kaguya, Elveonora. Not all expectations can be met. @Windstar Exactly. Using what we've been given, those are the only conclusions we can really come too. 16:55,11/8/2014 16:55, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I don't think this databook changed anything. We concluded that Enton is an advanced nature and the databook only stated what we knew already. That's why I don't think we should change anything. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:58, November 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Before I would have agreed not to, but considering a whole data book came out and it didn't give us any new info, I feel it's supposed to be "obvious" enough to us that we can figure it out. Damn Kishi. A whole book and questions are still left ambiguously answered.17:08,11/8/2014 17:08, November 8, 2014 (UTC)

I've said it in the past that Enton is what Sasuke dubs these black flames. I don't think it to be wise to throw everything else we've considered aside just because the Data Book didn't bother to make things clear. Even if the black flames are still being called Katon in passing, it doesn't change the fact that they have never appeared and behaved as normal Katon do; we shouldn't just ignore that... Now, that said, this would be better discussed on Blaze Release's own Talk Page, wouldn't you agree? :P —「SaiST」Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg 20:15, November 8, 2014 (UTC)