Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-31966672-20200409171208/@comment-4961229-20200415211123

LegionZero wrote: Sometimes you do. Either way, this isnt proof of where Neji learned to cold read

Cool. Now show me Neji teaching himself cold reading. Ill wait.

I havent argued against this for at least 2 posts now. Not sure anyone has. You can get off that loop already.

Nothing can really witness speed. Objects moving at high speeds can be observed, but that is semantics. Anyways...

Hinata didnt see Neji hit her arm like 18 times

Neji couldnt see the 4 jonin restrain him against Hinata

Neji couldnt see Kyubi amped Naruto moving in their fight

There were a few times Neji couldnt see Kidomaru's counters that werent in his blind spot.

Chidori immediately tipped off Sakira due how bright and loud it is. She even had time to turn around. If she wasnt completely cought off guard by an attack from behind while emotionally distraught she probably could have avoided it.

I love how you tried to frame the scene like the attack was successful when Kakashi came in and stopped the attack.

Kakashi had to get himself stabbed so he could physically restrain Pain. You ignore any forward moment may be performed at tunnel-vision inducing speed. Kakashi used a full body motion

I guess technically they dont have to run but the target has to be restrained, distracted, or blindsided

Doesnt have to widen the FOV. It speeds up the process of information of the optic nerve, negating the tunnel vision. You're the one making the claim that he could've, would've, should've learned cold reading somewhere in some magical chapter. I only need to point to Neji saying he does cold reading with his all seeing Byakugan. I literally need no other information than that.

You quit arguing about it without conceding the point, hoping I'd just forget. That's why we're still arguing about it.

Hinata certainly didn't react to it. She was much slower than Neji back then. Hinata also was an inferior user of their doujutsu, so IF she didn't see it, that's why.

Neji didn't react to them. Prove that Neji didn't see them. Neji didn't have the speed to react to a Jounin at that time. As Rock Lee explained, it doesn't matter that you can see a movement if you don't have the speed to react, you can't do anything but watch. You've presented no evidence to prove your case.

Don't know what fight you were watching, but Neji kept up with everything Naruto threw at him when his Byakugan was active. When Naruto vanishes in a speed blitz, Neji never loses sight of him, he catches the shuriken Naruto threw at him, and throws them right back, but Naruto's speed dodges his attacks. The last attack was when his Byakugan was deactivated.

Not that I recall. Kidomaru had to hide attacks in his blind spot, otherwise they were detected. Point out what you're talking about. Not going to take your word for it. In any case, a 2 tomoe sharingan wouldn't be likely to get anyone out of that situation.

All doujutsus fail. That's a fact. Kakashi with 3 tomoe sharingan couldn't see Itachi's hand signs. Sasuke's Mangekyou couldn't keep up with Kirabi's swordplay. Doujutsu's fail because the movements are beyond their current capability all the time. Point where I said any doujutsu is 100% effective all the time. You can't, because I didn't.

Doesn't change the fact that 2 tomoe completes Raikiri/Chidori and the Byakugan is more than a match for it.

I said nothing about the attack being successful. You made a claim. "Chidori REQUIRES the high speed to use" I demonstrated twice that Kakashi and Sasuke certainly used the jutsu in a completely different fashion than what you claimed. If they failed to meet the standards of their own jutsu then they are incompetent. Is that now your claim?

By the way, I love how you tried to frame the scene like it's lack of success has anything at all to do with the validity of your point. When Kakashi showed Minato that jutsu at high speed he almost got killed. Minato had to save him. How's that for lack of success?

That's not what happened. Kakashi didn't intentionally get himself stabbed and that wouldn't restrain Pain if he did since he could let go of his weapon any time. Kakashi put up a wall behind Pain to block retreat and then engaged him in hand to hand combat. If you were correct that high speed hand to hand combat induces tunnel vision, then nondoujutsu users would ever engage in it. Yet they do all the time. Clearly, it's not the same thing. Unless you can show hand to hand combatants worried about tunnel vision you can't prove this point.

So now you admit that it can be used differently. You could've just done that in the beginning and saved us both some time.

No it doesn't. And you have no evidence that it does. I on the other hand do have evidence that the Raikages didn't react to the counterattacks in exactly the manner that Minato described.

UltimaDude wrote: I concede that A4 was indeed moving his head, but it was before Minato teleported. Notice that I'm referring to A's second go. In the attack you're talking about (A's first go), Minato flicked his kunai upwards at the last second from below the waist. A then moved his eye to see the kunai right before Minato teleported behind him.

Don't put words in my mouth. Lightning Release Chakra Mode has been explicitly stated to stimulate the user's nervous system that enhances their speed and reaction time. So A3 and A4 don't suffer from tunnel vision

Have you ever thought that A3 couldn't move in time? Regardless of tunnel vision, A would have seen Naruto get out of the way.

That was because of momentum.

Notice how in all the examples you brought up the Raikage's target time and make their move at the last second? This is unlike the Stone ninja who just casually swung his sword at a charging Kakashi right after shouting at him. Minato, Naruto, and Sasuke had to time their counter in order to use their opponent's momentum to their advantage, otherwise the Raikage would have easily changed course. Timing a counter would not have been necessary if A3 and A4 suffer from tunnel vision.

Don't you think that Minato disappearing would have tipped Obito off to switch to phasing? He was simply shocked and couldn't react in time Then he didn't have "a single point of focus" and it doesn't fit Minato's description.

Please, don't bring in stuff from the anime. We don't know how Minato placed his kunai that Raikage barely had time to glance at before he was attacked. There is no panel which shows that in the manga. Only the anime shows him flipping his kunai.

This is your headcanon. Reaction speed eliminating tunnel vision was never stated in the manga. It doesn't make any sense anyway. If you're thinking faster AND moving faster than you'd have the same problem at a faster scale. In order for this to even make ANY sense, Raikage would have to be moving at slow motion to himself to eliminate tunnel vision. He can't out think his own speed.

No. Losing sight of the target isn't the same as detecting where the target's counter is coming from. Just because I lose sight of a left hook doesn't mean I'm going to detect that it was a feint and that the punch is really a right cross. If your logic is correct, Kakashi could see his target shifting the body he was trying to stab, so why did Minato have to save him? Hint. Minato never mentions momentum.

No. Momentum had nothing to do with it. Momentum won't stop the Raikage from shifting their arms just like momentum didn't stop Naruto/Sasuke from shifting their entire upper bodies. They didn't alter their arm movements because they didn't see the counterattacks. That's why they got shanked.

Have you ever played any sports? How do you somehow believe that you can hit any fast moving object at all without timing your swing? He did time his counter. That's why his arm and sword are drawn in blurred lines, indicating that he swung quickly at the precise moment Kakashi reached him: https://i.imgur.com/fkXTgd5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Frt8tg7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bIFoWHv.jpg He thus nicked Kakashi under his arm despite Minato saving him from the brunt of it. Nothing was casual about it; that's a fabrication on your part.

No. Once again, losing sight of something isn't the same as knowing where it is or where it's attacking from. Here Blade loses sight of his opponent and gets clocked with an uppercut he wasn't expecting: https://i.imgur.com/eaVK67w.mp4 By your logic the mere fact that he could no longer see the opponent should've alerted him to how to counter the incoming attack. Pretty sure you've been in at least one fight in your life. Fighting doesn't work like that. Losing sight causes you to hesitate more, not react quicker. However, if you clearly detect something coming at you from below, your reflexes kick in much faster.

That's all for now. If I missed any of your issues it's because I'm dealing with two different Great Walls of Text. UltimaDude wrote: Do you mot see the quoted message directly above it?!?! I see that I was already chill and you made a nonsensical statement, but whatever. Now I know to completely ignore such statements in the future.