Talk:Izanami

ultimate ??
i dont remember it as being said the ULTIMATE dojutsu of the uchiha Salil dabholkar (talk) 11:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Chapter 581, pagte 15 — "the ultimate dōjutsu that holds his destiny" Blackstar1 (talk) 12:00, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Opposite to Izanagi
Seing as izanagi creates illusion to reality wouldnt this probably make reality an illusion? (zenryoku90) --85.159.131.196 (talk) 12:04, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * It may be a speculation as of now Salil dabholkar (talk) 12:12, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

From the description of Izanagi, the technique removes the boundaries between reality and illusion within the user's own personal space, meaning it actually covers both of the options mentioned above by Zenryoku90. This is the reason why Danzō didn't die when struck by Sasuke's arrows, as he made the reality of his own death into a mere illusion. Blackstar1 (talk) 12:23, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

From Itachi's comparison of the two techniques (i.e izanagi alters destiny while izanami decides it) one could deduce that while Izanagi will allow its user to avoid death, thus altering destiny, Izanami could bring death, thus deciding destiny. However until its shown, this is pure speculation Nate Alter (talk) 09:39, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

All the Kami
Amaterasu - Sarutahiko - Ame no Uzume - Inari - Izanagi - Izanami - Susanoo - Tsukuyomi

Sorry if this is speculation, but does anyone see a link? Does the Uchiha clan possess another three jutsu's besides the current five? Derigar (talk) 12:08, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

until its shown they only possess the potential for the already shown ones. --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 12:18, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Doubt it. Inari is already the name of a character. Also, The five that have jutsus already are all related. The main Mangekeyo Jutsus are Izanagi and Izanami (husband and wife/brother and sister), Amaterasu, Susanoo and Tsukuyomi (all of whom are born from Izanagi after he fails to rescue Izanami). The other gods you listed appear along side these gods but are not related in the same way.--210.56.88.85 (talk) 12:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * There are more kami than just those eight, you know. According to tradition, there are eight million, even. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:54, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Izanagi and presumably Izanami are not MS jutsu.

--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 12:55, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I see! Thanks :D Derigar (talk) 13:23, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

possible ?
So basically this technique judges the one it's casted upon and decides if he/she is worthy to live based on his/her deeds ? --Elveonora (talk) 12:47, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * The way Itachi spoke of it, it simply allows one to decide destiny. Not sure where you got that other stuff about being worthy from. Next week (SO LONG) should clear thinbs up Skitts (talk) 13:01, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Izanami being a goddess of both creation and death and the part about deciding destiny made it sound like "Izanami" will judge Kabuto or something. --Elveonora (talk) 13:03, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Could be. Too bad Kishi had to leave us hanging high and dry. xD Skitts (talk) 13:26, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Mangekyo
Hm, since Itachi's MS is activated as he says that this technique is prepared, shouldn't that mean it's an MS technique? Skitts (talk) 13:05, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Read above. Izanagi can be used just with ordinary Sharingan, if this is a pair to it then I dunno. --Elveonora (talk) 13:07, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how anyone could know that as now. :3 It's not like the situation with Edo Madara using Susanoo while having the Rinnegan active, since we already knew that it was an MS technique. We've only seen it used (rather, as of now prepared to be used) while an MS was active. Skitts (talk) 13:10, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, so see ya one week later ; ) For the time being, I see no problem with it being listed as a MS technique. It's neither right or wrong for the time being, when we know it's gonna be changed. --Elveonora (talk) 13:14, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

This is exciting ^_^ But I hope this technique is some kind of Deus Ex Machina to the current Kabutomaru-Uchiha brothers situation. Derigar (talk) 13:27, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I can live with it being listed as an MS technique for now, but as this technique makes a pair with Izanagi, I think it's highly probable that it can be used with a regular Sharingan, as it was also said to consume its light. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:40, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

I find it a very, very long shot that this is a MS tech and not a Sharingan tech. If it's a parent technique to Izanagi and it's meant to make a pair with it as the Uchiha clan's ultimate visual techniques, why would be used as an MS tech, as the MS is an extremely rare power to activate? Darksusanoo (talk) 03:54, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, givin' now my opinion. I agree putting it as an MS tech. for now, until the Manga 582 was released. --IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 14:30, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * While I agree that there isn't much issue in listing the technique as MS for now, given that it's said to be paired with Izanagi and that Itachi has had his MS activated since chapter 578, if we're ultimately not given confirmation either way, I'd vote for changing it to a Sharingan tech instead. Blackstar1 (talk) 15:15, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Black. Unless more information is released, this should be changed to a regular Sharingan technique. Derigar (talk) 16:25, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Revisited
I'm not sure who removed it since we came to a consensus to keep it until proven otherwise, but seeing as Itachi said that he was using the technique in the latest chapter while his Mangekyo was still active, shouldn't this be [re-]labeled as a MS technique? We even see one of Itachi's eyes darkened out at the chapter's end. Skitts (talk) 16:59, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Going from Izanagi, I don't think the Mangekyō alone is required to use it. I thought his eye went out because of him "degenerating" (O.o?) after being cut.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:06, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * But this isn't Izanagi and was called the ultimate Uchiha Dojutsu, so it doesn't have to be the same. :p Also, if you look on the last page (and the page before), you see Itachi activating the technique, and then on the last page you see him still using a seal and in the last panel that he's in, his right eye is darkened out, while his left one isn't. o3o Skitts (talk) 17:11, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's possible that you do need the Mangekyō Sharingan but I'd go off the precedence of its counterpart Izanagi which doesn't require you to have the Mangekyō for this one. That's the page, did you notice that Kabuto was "crying" as well xD? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:14, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and I smirked when I saw that. :{D Skitts (talk) 17:16, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

The Last Time... I Hope
Okay, seeing as Itachi has kept his Mangeko Sharingan activated the entire time as he prepared and then activated Izanami, it's rather safe to say that this technique requires the Mangekyo, no? Skitts (talk) 12:33, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. TricksterKing (talk) 12:44, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to say that this technique requires the Mangekyo —¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 12:48, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Still would leave it as just Sharingan. It's not a case where he's actually deactivated his MS (at least from where I checked and what I remember) he hasn't not had it activated since chapter 578. If it was that he activated it when he was speaking about the technique, maybe, but I don't think that's the case here.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:08, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Itachi was using Susano'o for the last few chapters, keeping Susano'o on stand-by or 'hold' for caution and defence it is not surprising he kept mangekyo on for quick rescue. Itachi stated himself anyone in his clan (with sharingan {normal}) could use it. /Question Yumeyo-yuki (talk) 18:38, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Genjutsu
By taking into account the entire conversation itachi has with sasuke, this technique is obviously genjutsu. It is highly doubtful Itachi would say that it affects the opponent regardless of their senses if it wasn't. Most ninjutsu do that already, and the only type of jutsu that effects the senses are genjutsu (with exceptions, such as those that utilize light and sound to paralyze/disable the enemy. But its highly unlikely itachi will pull out one of those, given the situation and kabuto's immunity to things of that nature). Also, seeing that this jutsu is the counterpart of izanagi, its likely to be yin-yang release as well. Of course, there's nothing wrong with waiting until the next chapter for this to be confirmed, but I'm just impatient. :P --128.123.203.94 (talk) 19:16, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * All Genjutsu affect the opponent via their senses. That leads to the possibility that this isn't genjutsu. Skitts (talk) 19:39, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * it can still be a genjutsu that affects the user in some way, similar to izanagi. just because kabuto blocks his senses, it doesn't mean that he will be immune to a genjutsu cast upon the user.

i think is a genjutsu that not use any sense as medium (some genjutsu of the sharingan use the eyes something else like the toad singing use the sound) is a genjutsu that affect the reality itself (like izanagi change the reality itself for the user alone) --Nitram86 (talk) 23:15, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Reqirements
Since Izanagi requires both the power of the Senji and the Uchiha, should Izanami not requires the same things as well?--69.242.113.193 (talk) 16:29, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but we don't know that yet. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:36, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact that Izanagi was deemed a Kinjutsu by and obviously had been used by Uchiha in the past, I doubt that Senju DNA is a necessity. Unless it's really just that easy to integrate another's DNA into your own. Skitts (talk) 04:21, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

itachi doesnt have senju dna and since itachi was able to use it, i doubt you would need senju dna.Tris0928 (talk) 04:38, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Unless Hashi boobs are being sold on black market ...--Elveonora (talk) 15:50, April 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Itachi might have obtained it from somewhere. So possibility is there Salil2212™Uchiha Symbol.svg 12:44, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Senju DNA perfects Izanagi. It's possibly the same for Izanami too. Patsoumas1995 (talk) 13:46, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

This pretty much confirms that Senju DNA iSN'T needed for Uchiha clan Sharingan powers ... unless Itachi also has Hashi's face under the cloak --Elveonora (talk) 14:45, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? You know this isn't a forum... Tobi I believe it was, said himself that to make perfect use of the technique DNA from both lineages were required not that it couldn't be used without it. What difference does Itachi's use without it make? The effects of Izanagi is very different from that of Izanami.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:52, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

The difference that Senju DNA is used for nothing more than to boost one's chakra/energy (thus how long it lasts) Uchiha labelled it forbidden, so they had to use it before ... unless each of them had Hashi's face on their chest.--Elveonora (talk) 15:00, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * What's your point? If the purpose to of a cup is to hold beverages, doesn't it serve a purpose in the whole process nonetheless even though you could use your hands? The fourth section of the Izanagi article speaks exactly to that. The article at no point says that it can't be done without it. From the little we've seen of Izanami, I'm not even sure how you jump to this conclusion that Senju DNA wouldn't boost it in some way or the other.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:09, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

That's not what I'm saying ... sure it helps. The article for Izanagi says: "to make full use of the Izanagi, the user also must have genetic traits of the Senju" I don't think that's correct ... better wording would be "to make better use" because full use sounds like without the Senju stuff, it's effects are dfferent/incomplete. And again, there's no indication the Senju DNA is used for anything else than to boost one's chakra/energy in order to lengthen the duration of Izanagi and to have chakra reserves high enough in order to use it more than once --Elveonora (talk) 15:38, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have never seen Izanagi used by someone without Senju DNA to compare the effects, so what exactly are you basing this assumption on? Tobi stated to Konan that Izanagi was only available to those who wielded both Senju and Uchiha DNA. It's all there in chapter 510, pages 10-13 or there about.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:30, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

How could it be forbidden by the Uchiha if that's the case ? That would imply that Uchiha were modifying themselves with Senju cells or what. and Izanami apparently doesn't require it--Elveonora (talk) 23:05, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * You still don't get it. Yes the Uchiha are able to use Izanagi on its own- that is without Senju DNA aiding them. However that form of Izanagi will not be in its perfect/complete form. That means they can use it→ go blind→ and pull off the technique. Acquiring Senju DNA allows them, to use a perfect form of the technique as seen with Tobi, who was able to withstand an explosion that lasted 10 minutes with one eye instead of sacrificing ten-one minute Sharingans (He noted that Danzo's was imperfect because he was unable to control the Senju DNA). No one said all Uchiha were going around poaching off the Senju to get their DNA in order to use it. I highly doubt they'd even been using it since the repercussions are terrible. As for Izanami, no it wouldn't seem that it requires Senju DNA as Izanami doesn't venture into the world of Yang Release as Izanagi does.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:18, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Debut chapter
Shouldn't its debut chapter be the chapter when it is actually used? —¤ S@lil ¤ (T@lk) 08:04, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the jutsu wasn't still used. Wait for the next chapter. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 08:09, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

So till then shouldn't the space be blank? —¤ S@lil ¤ (T@lk) 08:13, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's been blanked. TricksterKing (talk) 10:08, May 15, 2012 (UTC)

Yin-Yang Release
Shouldn't this be Yin-Yang Release, given that its just like izanagi, but effects the opponent, rather than the user? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 12:25, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope. This has nothing in common from the little we know on the technique and ability that utilizes said Release. In any case, we're going to wait for exposition before adding anything. Skitts (talk) 12:30, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean, nothing in common? They both alter someone's destiny. Changing destinies is only something that can be done by altering reality, and that's something that can only be done with Yin-Yang Release. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 22:22, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. For one we have never been told what natures it entail if any. Secondly, nothing here speaks to what Yang Release is- there is no imagination taking on form here. Thirdly, not because its counterpart is Yin-Yang Release means this automatically is. We can wait for that information to be given.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:45, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

So ...
Kabuto is trapped in an endless fight against Itachi that he can't win ? 0_0 So if Kabuto has chosen his destiny by accepting himself being a failure, he would not have to fight Itachi ... right ? Because the events of Izanami are those that he himself has helped to achieve.--Elveonora (talk) 14:43, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming that if Kabuto decides to continue raging against Itachi in his mind, destiny will continue to loop itself as Itachi wishes it. Otherwise I'd assume it can change.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:53, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

But as long as Kabuto won't accept his failure, he will be trapped in his own arrogance ? Just asking to make sure I understood what it does.--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Only one eye?
In Chapter 586 Page 17, Itachi's other eye has mangekyō sharingan —¤ S @lil ¤ (T@lk) 15:26, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Aye. You only sacrifice the eye you use to cast the technique.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:28, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

But in the above frame, both his eyes have mangekyō sharingan —¤ S @lil ¤ (T@lk) 15:32, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * That was part of the illusion Kabuto was in. We see the real Itachi's eye go blind on page 4.--Deva 27 15:33, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

when the tecnique begin??
i was thinking about the moment when the tecnique begin the loop start with the clash between itachi and kabuto before cutting his horn so the tecnique start here and all the fight was in the illusion of izanami?? --Nitram86 (talk) 19:58, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * The technique wasn't activated until this chapter, so it was probably activated when Itachi's left MS went blind. Skitts (talk) 21:03, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

question
are izanagi and izanami the shinto counterparts to christianities "adam and eve"?, just curious --Caseather (talk) 20:50, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Adam and Eve weren't gods. To me their stories seem too different for that.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:57, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any possible connections with Adam and Eve. Skitts (talk) 21:05, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

The story of Izanagi and Izanami is actually more similar to a Greek story. I should know, since I did a project on it for school. Ever heard the story of Orpheus and Eurydice?-- Ninja Sheik  21:08, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * no--Caseather (talk) 22:06, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have and they are similar stories but the one of Eurydice and Orpheus ended more happily than that of Izanagi and Izanai I think.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:48, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

actualy no. orpheus entered hades the underworld, used the music from his lyre to convince the death god hades and then hades said he could take eurydice back home if he walked out of hades without looking back but trusting that eurydice was following him out, when he got near the exit he got suspicious that hades played a trick on him and turned around seen eurydice right there, eurydice was then pulled back down into the pits of the underworld. i don't think it's a happy ending in either story.98.26.240.179 (talk) 22:58, May 16, 2012 (UTC)yomiko-chan
 * Oh yeah. I had forgotten that last bit.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:18, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Regeneration of the eye
Because Itachi is a revived corpse and all damage done to him regenerates, is it possible that the eye sealed by this technique will also regenerate? 68.39.240.90 (talk) 23:54, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is unknown at the moment.--Deva 27 00:08, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

(E/C) As evidenced by Mū's Splitting Technique and the 2nd Mizukage's Steaming Danger Tyranny, no. Those whom are reincarnated by Edo Tensei are still susceptible to the drawbacks of their own techniques. Even post-reincarnation, Edo Itachi's eye still bleeds when he uses Amaterasu. Also, Edo Tensei regenerateshysical damage. Skitts (talk) 00:13, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Possible article's misconception
" Whilst under the effects of the technique, the target will stand motionlessly as the loop of events continually replays inside their mind.[3]!"

I think that this line would be deleted, in waiting of the new developments of the next chapter. I'm not sure that izanami is a sort of illusion in the mind of the victim, sincerely the last panel seemed to me happens in the real world, with Kabuto that aware of the loop resigned himself to keep fighting and Itachi that confort him  for the loss. --JK88 (talk) 13:02, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's not a misconception. Try reading the chapter again. The Itachi that Kabuto is fighting in the loop has both of his Mangekyo, while the Itachi that has his hand on Kabuto's head still retains a blind left MS that had gone blind earlier in the chapter. Makes it obvious that Kabuto is in a mental illusion, especially since the Kabuto Itachi has his hand on is stationary. Skitts (talk) 13:57, May 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I re-read the chapter more times (an not just for Izanami), but I'm not convinced and I repeat that I think that before we need the explanation of the jutsu in the next chapter. Anyway, if this is an illusion and not the reality, what is the meaning of the line "the jutsu that decide the fate"? I know that an illusion would be more coherent with the power of the sharingan, but I think that this jutsu has effect on the manipulation of real events that end to happen ever in a predetermined way (so an influence on the destiny of the things).


 * And about the lack of the eye in Itachi in the last page in the hypotetical return to the reality, actually we seen him without the left eye also during the previous loops, exactly here: http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/97464374/9--


 * However you may be right, it's just that I don't understand the meaning of "decide the destiny" if this is really something that happened only in the mind of the victim...JK88 (talk) 15:12, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

 I thought at first that it was happening in the real world but I doubt the whole Itachi patting Kabuto on him head bit since I don't think the current Kabuto would stop raging so easily and where did all the snake parts go? We can easily wait until next week, however, and see if we get a proper description of the technique from Kishimoto. I also don't think Izanami took hold until that same page 9 or whatever. As for "the justsu that decides fate" that's pretty straight forward: At least that's how I look at it.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:20, May 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) if Kabuto continues to fight→ he'll continue to look.
 * 2) If he does something else→ different "path" opens up.


 * Understand, anyway I more convinced now, I think that effectively it's an illusion. The last scene is too much repentine to be like I've interpreted it (Itachi patting Kabuto) and, also is I prefer a decision of the real fate, like I've said make more sense that the jutsu is actually the ultimate illusion/mind-rape for the sharingan. Although to be a jutsu in pair with Izanagi, it was logical to think that his effects were passed on the reality like in the Danzou's fight and his continuous "reset deaths" effectively happened.


 * EDIT: Additionally, I think that the jutsu didn't start in the previous chapters, but just at the end of the last chapter or in this chapter with the page that I've posted before (with the disappearence of the Itachi's eye to mark the start of Izanami). This also if uses events taken from chapter 580. In the loops we can see that sasuke has practically no role (it's logical) while until the last chapter, there were continuous conversations between him and Itachi, also regarding the wait for the beginning of the effects of Izanami.--JK88 (talk) 15:37, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Just pointing out that Tobi's eye went blind more than 10 minutes after his usage of Izanagi - when the effect has ended. We don't know when Itachi has already used it --Elveonora (talk) 16:39, May 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * You are right, anyway in the Tobi's fight, Konan said that his intangibility has a limit of 5 minutes; then Tobi said to posses a so called "perfect" Izanagi, another thing in comparison with the jutsu of Danzou. So seems that what makes different Tobi's Izanagi from that of Danzou is the time-limit, in the case of Tobi at least of 5 minutes (admitting that for the first 5 minutes of explosion he used his intangibility to escape from the explosions). Sorry for the off-topic.--JK88 (talk) 17:26, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yep, my point that he could cast Izanami before his eye went blank--Elveonora (talk) 22:19, May 17, 2012 (UTC)