Talk:Gaara

New part 2 image
I resently uploaded this pic:. And I find it better than the current one, since it put a bit more distance to him, so you can see all his hair and sholders. --Kasan94 (talk) 18:21, November 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * And he dosn't look so sad. --Kasan94 18:45, November 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no consensus on this change, so please don't make an arbitrary decision to change things. If nobody replies to your message, simply bump it and ask again. If there is still no reply, then people don't see any reason to change the image. Frankly, I prefer the current image over your one because the current one shows his proper mood (which is indeed sad, most of the time) --Speysider Talk Page 15:49, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

part 2 image
What do you think about this image for Gaara's infobox? It is more recent, and it is the way he currently looks,besides that, his kanji is more visible. I'm new to this wiki (hence the hopeful wish to do some changes on it) so I hope I posted everything in order. :) Vojkffy (talk) 20:16, March 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * Don't add messages in the middle of other discussions that have long died. Moved your request to the bottom for easier viewing. --Speysider Talk Page 20:18, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

I don't see why it's necessary to change. There is no significant difference in Gaara between the two images. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:42, March 16, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara's sand manipulation
His sand manipulation should be listed as a unique trait on his infobox, he retained this ability after having Shakaku removed. Shakaku has it listed as one so should Gaara. (Kuroiraikou (talk) 13:25, April 13, 2014 (UTC))
 * This.--Elveonora (talk) 13:37, April 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * Also listing produce ink on Killer B unique trait as well.(Kuroiraikou (talk) 15:10, April 13, 2014 (UTC))


 * Point of clarification, the "unique trait" bit in infoboxes was designed strictly for tailed beasts.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:12, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? Then why do human characters use it too?--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, April 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * I've seen chakra absorption listed on alot of humans infoboxs.(Kuroiraikou (talk) 15:26, April 13, 2014 (UTC))


 * I said "designed strictly". It was for the tailed beasts and their unique abilities exclusive to that tailed beast and their jinchuriki. If memory serves me correctly I think they were there when the ability section in articles were just a list if techniques and no details.
 * Quite frankly the section is a relic and could probably be removed as is. It's purpose is now being served within the article proper.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:34, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

are all gonna just forget that Gaara controls sand by infusing chakra into it? which he keeps in his gourd, its not foolish to believe while in battle he does this to surrounding sand. Also, it's likely Gaara w designed around his tailed beast like Roshi was. FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 06:23, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Magnetism Release
The latests raws prove that Shukaku uses Jiton. Does this not pretty much confirm that Gaara was using Magnetism Release all along? If not through his father's genes (note the eye markings when his father uses Jiton), then surely his ability to manipulate sand was due to Shukaku's ability. As Obito recently demonstrated for us again, bijū skills can remain with a jinchūriki even after extraction.--Reliops (talk) 02:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

The eyes were a huge indication that Gaara used Magnet Release, but this proves it completely. Gaara is a Jiton user. Derigar (talk) 14:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Completely possible, and most completely likely. Doubt we will ever know for sure so until then, he does not get listed.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara a Jinton user? Highly possible, considering both his father and Tailed Beasts had it, but still not confirmed. Sand manipulation = Jinton? Perhaps, but too speculation/not confirmed so nope.--Elveonora (talk) 14:27, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * One could argue this that it's not too speculatory at all. Iron Sand, which uses Magnet Release was said to have been designed off Shukaku. Shukaku using it on its own damn near proves it. But things are never so simple around here.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:39, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sand isn't magnetic tho.--Elveonora (talk) 14:47, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * And fire isn't black and burns hotter than the sun for a week. Your point?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:01, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * But we can't just assume that sand in Narutoverse is magnetic or that he uses special sand that is. Also Magnet Release is unlikely to be what moves the sand, because Gaara would be able to sustain Kunai and stuff in the air, which he hasn't shown. A Magnet Release which can't manipulate anything but sand is illogical--Elveonora (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * When did I say we could assume anything. I said it was probable and likely, and then even stated things are never so simple around here to imply that it wasn't going into the article anyway.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Cant you just add it and say presumably like on tsunades page? Munchvtec (talk) 15:32, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Tsunade's case is different. Also, how the hell could Gaara's daddy subdue Shukaku with Jiton when Shukaku itself can use Jiton? This makes no sense at all. • Seelentau 愛議 15:56, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Its a very long running anime/manga series. not everything needs to make sense. We can't answer every question asked. Munchvtec (talk) 15:57, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Tsunade's case was weird before we even began having these types of conversations, mainly because of the difference between electric signals in the nerves, and lightning that does actual lightning things.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seel, basically we are led to believe that Shukaku's Jinton can exclusively manipulate only sand (which isn't even magnetic) somehow ._. 4th Kazekage used Golden Dust which is heavier than sand therefore overpowered Shukaku.--Elveonora (talk) 16:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think tsunade has lightning release but lets stay on the topic= Gaara. Munchvtec (talk) 16:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Jiton doesn't manipulate anything. It changes the Chakra nature to a magnetism nature, nothing else. Sand isn't magnetic so it can't be manipulated with Jiton. Gold is dia-magnetic, at least. But sand? No way. • Seelentau 愛議 16:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Kishimoto is screwing with us. Munchvtec (talk) 16:05, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seel, then suppose Shukaku was just dumb enough not to defend himself with his own Jinton against Kazekage's Golden Dust. Otherwise Kishi doesn't know that sand ain't magnetic or he just doesn't care, because (sarcasm) it's completely logical for magnetic chakra to magnetize ONLY sand, magnetic or not.--Elveonora (talk) 16:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Kishimoto has all but said plenty of times, he is no scientist. If he was, jamming ones eye into your skull would not all of a sudden make it work.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:09, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * That still doesn't explain why would Shukaku's Jinton affect but sand. That's like Katon which burns only paper but people are safe--Elveonora (talk) 16:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, in the end, it doesn't even matter, since this is but speculation. If anyone adds Jiton to Gaara's natures, I'll revert it. • Seelentau 愛議 16:15, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I understand where both sides are coming from, but I think instead of having these length discussions about steps to take in doing things… we wait… Clearly Kishimoto intends to explain all of this.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:35, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the primary argument here stems from Gaara's eyes. The Fourth Kazekage got the same damn eyes when he used Jiton and Gaara was shown in the very next chapter using his father's Gold Dust along with his own sand. I will not voice my support either way, but c'mon people. Not everything has to have a giant flashing neon-light banner above it to be completely obvious. Very high probability here that its the case. Our best bet, to be sure though, is a new databook. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:37, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't take those eye markings necessarily as an indication of Jinton. We were told they are from insomnia in Gaara's case after all, not to mention the shuriken Jinton user has no markings--Elveonora (talk) 16:41, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Shuriken-jutsu user was from Kirigakure. Could be a different strain of the genetic trait. Works that way in real life too. Gaara's father gained the rings when he began using Magnet Release. As I've said, Gaara also used Gold Dust in the very next chapter, in tandem with his sand. Again, I'm not supporting or denying, I'm just saying: common sense people. Doesn't take much. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * So Jinton usage causes insomnia? (sarcasm)--Elveonora (talk) 17:24, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveonora. "Magnet Release (磁遁, Jiton; Viz "Magnet Style") is an advanced chakra nature kekkei genkai which allows the user to convert chakra into magnetic forces and magnetise an object." Tell me again, annoyingly, how sand isn't "magnetic". Derigar (talk) 18:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Toroi's Jiton worked completely different from Sunagakure's Jiton. If Yondaime could magnetise stuff like Toroi, he could have simply magnetised a lot of shinobi and impaled them with gold. We need to wait to see how Shukaku's Magnet Release works. We have to see what its effects are. Once we have that clear, we look to see if there are any of Shukaku's or Gaara's sand techniques that have the same effects. If any of the techniques apply, they'll be retroactively called Jiton, much like Sandaime's were when Magnet Release was released, and when Deidara was confirmed a user of Explosion Release. Does that sound like a sensible approach? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

That is a perfect way to handle it, Omnibender! Derigar (talk) 18:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * How can magnetism itself be used in different ways? I get that you can apply it to either shuriken or iron sand, but it stays magnetism, doesn't it? • Seelentau 愛議 18:26, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Omni We may not even see the Magnet Rasengan's effect, because Madara vanished. If it won't affect him on the missing pages of chapter 674, then we will have to wait for Naruto to use it again, which he may not do--Elveonora (talk) 18:27, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau - Different genetic versions of the same Kekkei Genkai MIGHT result in different effects. The Sand kekkei genkai specialised in large amount, small objects; akin to sand. The Stone kekkei genkai specialised in small amount, large objects; akin to a ninja tools. This is taken from direct observations. Either way, it is confirmed that Shukaku and Gaara's father both have Magnet Release (JITON, not Jinton -_-), so Gaara both got Magnet release from his father (genetically) and his Bijuu (akin to Roshi, or however he's called). Thinking Gaara doesn't have Magnet release is illogical and honestly, just plain dumb. Derigar (talk) 18:43, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Calling me dumb is... well, the most dumbest thing you could've done. Gaara has no Magnet Release because as logical as your explanations are, it was never ever hinted at. So we don't add Gaara as a MR user. Full stop. • Seelentau 愛議 18:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not to mention even if it were 200% fact that he does, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the Jinton that controls the sand--Elveonora (talk) 19:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Never called you dumb, just that all these major hints that Gaara has jiton are being ignored is dumb in my eyes. Derigar (talk) 23:29, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

"Magnetism Release (Presumed)"?
As we have discussed to quite some lengths, alls signs point towards Gaara being a Magnetism Release user, however, as this has not been explicitly stated, I suggest we add it to his info box with the "(Presumed)" tag next to it.--Reliops (talk) 19:34, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * If Gaara had ever used some jutsu that looked like Magnet Release, I'd agree with you, but for now, well, he didn't.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 19:38, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Shukaku's ability to control sand is presumably Magnetism Release though, and since Gaara retained that ability, it would appear that his presumed Magnetism Release is naturally aligned with sand. It's not that far off from his father's gold dust.--Reliops (talk) 19:50, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * In two seconds I searched 'Is Sand Magnetic?', and the answer is no, it isn't. Black sand can be magnetic, due to certain minerals within it, but Gaara's sand definitely isn't black. Also it's called Magnet Release, stop saying Magnetism. --Atrix471 (talk) 19:56, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Please read this and tell me what you think: If you don't feel like clicking:

"I actually made a thread aaaages ago about this after gaaras dad displayed the same eye rings as gaara. There is two types of magnetism:

1) paramagnetism: is a form of magnetism whereby something is attracted to a source via a magnetic field. This is most similar to toroi's magnetic shuriken.

2) diamagnetism: type of magnetism which repels objects with a magnetic force. Quartz the main component of sand is diamagnetic and hence why gaara can manipulate it and make it fly through the air. He is essentially manipulating the magnetic forces that repel the sand off the ground.

Given this info it's most likely a combination of lightning and earth release in that the minerals in the ground or sand are magnetised to form the repulsion field." --Reliops (talk) 20:15, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if sand isn't magnetic, pure gold isn't magnetic either but Kishimoto has someone using Magnet Release with it. If he wants Gaara to be a magnet release user then he'll tell us so eventually. We cannot presume until then. Because that would mean that Temaru and Kankurō are using Magnet Release presumably with their abilities as well. That's the problem with "presuming" in Gaara's case.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 20:21, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

We presume a lot of things on this wiki. We presumed Orochimaru had Mokuton because that made sense. We presumed Tsunade has lightning release because that makes sense. We presumed Hamura had Yin Release because that makes sense. With Gaara, there is arguably more cause to believe that he possesses Magnetism Release. And I don't know Temari and Kankurō would be of any concern as Temari only uses wind and we know puppets work with chakra strings, i.e. their styles don't resemble that of Gaara and their father at all. Nor do they have the eye rings.--Reliops (talk) 20:49, July 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * Regardless of whether sand manipulation is Magnet, it's inconsistent. We list Orochimaru because he has the genetic potential to use Wood Release, but not Gaara who has the potential to use Magnet Release through Shukaku. We should either list both or neither, depending on whether natures are listed for potential use or actual demonstrated capabilities.--BeyondRed (talk) 21:51, July 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with BeyondRed here. We list Orochimaru for being presumably being able to use Wood Style, just because his host body is a White Zetsu. Gaara should be updated for the exact same reason. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 21:59, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

I'm just going to say this and leave the discussion: If Gaara could use Magnet Release he would have no viable reason to ignore the other abilities granted by the nature. Remember when he used a sand clone to block shuriken in the chūnin exams? If he possessed Magnet Release he could have easily just stopped it in the air, but he didn't, which in my opinion is evidence that he doesn't possess the nature. --Atrix471 (talk) 22:02, July 29, 2014 (UTC)


 * Just because he have it, don't mean he fully knows how to use it. And as stated above, there is a possibility there more than one type of Magnet release (Toroi / Fourth Kazekage). If Orochimaru is stated as having Wood Release because his body is a White Zetsu clone, then Gaara should also have Magnet Release, since he was the jinjuricki of Shukaku, and could manipulate sand. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 22:42, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * If he had diamagnetism, he should be able to manipulate gold dust too... which he can't. Also if you read the Gold Dust article, the trivia section states it doesn't actually function by diamagnetism anyway, so the Fourth Kazekage is the same as any other Magnet Release user. Edit: We also know that not all Bijū inherently pass abilities down to their jinchūriki, as Naruto only received Kurama's 'Negative Emotions Sensing' after defeating it within the seal. --Atrix471 (talk) 22:52, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

I still don't see how the sand manipulation has anything to do with Magnet Release. The closest thing connecting the two is Naruto's Magnet Release technique, and even that doesn't quite look like sand. Nothing Gaara has ever done resembles all known variants of Magnet Release. I'm not saying that Gaara doesn't have Magnet Release, but with what we have, this isn't the same as the Orochimaru and Tsunade examples. I'm still against listing Hamura as a Yin Release user, but I find it harder to care each day. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:54, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaara has also manipulated gold dust. Don't forget that. He was able to manipulate his sand and gold dust at the same time, at that. The rings around the Fourth's eyes were obviously meant by Kishi to give us closure to the source behind Gaara's mysterious rings. They were never stated in the series to be related to insomnia, and originally were speculated to be a result of being Shukaku's jinchūriki, just like Naruto's whiskers. We now know that to be wrong. Seeing as Shukaku has Magnet Release, Gaara's markings were likely permenant, because, unlike the Kazekage, who could freely mold Magnet chakra whenever he wanted, a jinchūriki's chakra is always in contact with a tailed beasts, and so the markings simply stuck. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 23:58, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall the only thing Gaara did was to mix the gold dust into his own sand and then use it through that arbitrary method; he never directly manipulated the gold dust. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:01, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * That is directly manipulating Gold Dust. Gaara already stated in the chapter that the Gold Dust was heavier than his own sand, but that he could move it, and then mixed it with his own to create a combined attack. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 00:06, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

What TTF said. And if we're going to allow presumptions based on potential for Orochimaru, then surely Gaara more than qualifies? Shukaku has Magnetism Release and manipulates sand. Gaara's father has the same eyes he does and uses the same fighting style with gold dust - gold dust Gaara mixed with his sand. All points clearly point to Magnetism Release. Enough so warrant a (Presumed) tag.--Reliops (talk) 00:28, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Whatever, this topic was discussed before and you were shot down. I still stick to the prior judgement. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:45, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

First of all, Gaara moved the gold sand with his own sand, not with chakra. Second, when Shukaku aided Naruto, he didn't give him sand, but the Rasengan was still prefixed Magnet Release. The only thing that was new were the sealing markings, so I think Magnet Release has some sort of connection with fuinjutsu. Anyway, for now, we don't add Gaara as a user. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:58, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Gaara moved the gold dust by mixing it with his own sand. He also manipulated hail like that, but I don't see anyone saying he should be listed as an Ice Release user because of that. He essentially scooped up the gold dust with his own sand, that's not a direct manipulation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:15, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Also thing of note is that Naruto's Shukaku Magnet Release's powered Rasengan enveloped Madara's limbo clone. That means the chakra stuck to him like magnet, meaning Shukaku's Magnet Release is likely the same principle as Toroi's, no sand manipulation BS.--Elveonora (talk) 16:29, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Finally, some common sense in this thread. --Atrix471 (talk) 17:26, July 30, 2014 (UTC)

Let's get disingenuous to prove a point. Gaara said he mixed the gold dust with his sand, he didn't say he manipulated it with chakra, but he didn't say he was carrying it either. I believe the implication is clear. I don't recall when Gaara carried hale, but that's an irrelevant example seeing as there is no Ice Releaser that gains dark rings around his eyes. There are two sources that heavily imply Gaara is a Magnetism Release user, is bijū and his father. Not to be repeat myself like a broken record, but the fact his father gains rings around his eyes identical to Gaara's and has a similar fighting style, and then considering the fact Naruto gained the ability through Shukaku, would lead to the presumption that Gaara's ability does, in fact, stem from Magnetism Release.--Reliops (talk) 20:23, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * And no one disagrees with you on that being a logical deduction. Except it isn't entirely compatible:


 * You attribute the rings around eyes to Shukaku
 * Except Shukaku doesn't gain any rings while manipulating sand, nor did Naruto gain any rings when he used Magnet Release: Rasengan
 * Gaara's father had rings when using Magnet, wasn't jinchuuriki of Shukaku
 * Therefore the Magnet rings and Shukaku are unrelated
 * Other Magnet Release users like Toroi and (presumably) 3rd Kazekage had no Magnet rings around eyes
 * So Gaara's rings do not necessarily imply a relation to Magnet Release in any way--Elveonora (talk) 20:37, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaara's marks are permanent. His father's appear when using Magnet Release ONLY. This gives two outcomes: either Gaara is constantly using Magnet Release, or it's a arbitrary birth mark (like Naruto's whisker marks, for example). Since constant chakra usage would kill him, due to the inevitable outcome of chakra exhaustion, this argument is pointless. --Atrix471 (talk) 20:40, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes because Gaara's father having those markings is just a coincidence spurred by Kishimoto's whim. Sometimes I wonder if a few of you even read other literature. There are certain things that you really just have you use your brains with. Do any of you really, honestly, believe that Kishimoto gave Gaara's father, a Magnet Release user, and Gaara (the Kazekage's son), whom has a tailed beast with Magnet Release, the same markings for completely different reasons? I just cannot fathom the kind of logic used to reach a conclusion that ignorant of how context clues work. It is absolutely unbelievable. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:47, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * When Gaara is canonically proven to have Magnet Release you can be snarky all you like. Until then, save me the lecture please. This is a discussion that's come up multiple times for a reason, and that reason is simple: it hasn't been approved. Guess why that is? I'll give you a hint, it's to do with the utter lack of evidence in it's favor. Conjecture will get you nowhere, so cool the attitude. --Atrix471 (talk) 20:56, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

@Foxie, yeah, because a guy who misinterprets canon's context is the first one a person would go after to ask for context clues.--Elveonora (talk) 20:58, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * So, in other words, when Kishi gives you a giant neon banner that tells you everything you were supposed to learn with context clues (this is 1st grade level reading comprehension, how's that for snark?), you'll accept what everyone else already knows? Brilliant. Some encyclopedia this is when that is the mentality. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:59, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * While I am one who loves context clues as much as the next guy, Shukaku's Magnet Release has yet to look like sand. When it hit Madara, the cursed seal spread across his body and no sand, unless I missed it terribly. As such, despite it being likely in conjunction with the Second and Third Kazekage, we cannot say that Shukaku's sand is moved with Magnet Release.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:08, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Eye shadow, Bijū (that he doesn't even possess anymore) and familial ties are not, on their own, sufficient evidence to add an advanced chakra nature to his skill set. Kishi has never been subtle with his Kekkei Genkai. Darui revealed his, with the name clearly stated, in the first fight he fought. Sasuke did the same for Blaze Release, as did Sasori with the third Kazekage's. I have plenty of examples, so going entirely on previous information, I believe that if Gaara had Magnet Release, it would have been beaten into our heads. Oh, and I noticed you said you 'sense this discussion getting out of hand', which is pretty ironic given your intentional attitude here. That is the last I'll say on this matter, since I tire of this argument which is obviously getting nowhere. Hell, I really don't care anymore, add Magnet Release in if it helps your ego. --Atrix471 (talk) 21:31, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it's a mascara. You know, like those young cute emo guys tend to wear.--Elveonora (talk) 21:36, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * And we now have Naruto's Magnet Release Rasenshuriken with sand clearly shown infused with it. Is that enough to finally link sand and Magnetism and list Gaara as a user, or are we just going to be plain stupid about this? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 00:07, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Probably the latter, but now I am a believer. While first on the fence, I am now convinced. There would be no reason to show the sand if it wasn't part of the Magnet Release.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 01:04, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * I am in agreement. I'll give some time for others to chime in, then I'm adding him. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 01:35, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Please add him. I'm tired of reading this needless discussion. It should've been done weeks ago. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 01:46, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Thank goodness! Agreed.--Questionaredude (talk) 01:49, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

So Gaara has Magnet Release... seems legit :/. His father and former tailed beast do, not to mention he has the same markings as his father like Foxie pointed out. Gaara also infused his father's gold in his sand at one point. Things are pointing toward Gaara having it. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 02:00, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Good, adding him. This also means his sand techniques are magnet, so we need to all tagteam those and get those properly listed. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 02:04, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * My apologizes for filling up the activity feed. I added Magnet Release to all but Wind Release: Infinite Sand Cloud — Great Breakthrough.--Questionaredude (talk) 02:25, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

If Gaara is added as Magnet user along with sand techs being Magnet, then I demand us listing Ashura as jinchuuriki, otherwise I quit. Be consistent please. There's much more evidence that Ashura was a jinchuuriki than there is for sand being Magnet. Enough with picking and chosing--Elveonora (talk) 11:19, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Asura isn't being discussed on Gaara's page and you cannot barter on decision with another. Gaara's case is closed, Asura's isn't. The end. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 18:32, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

About damn time. I was going to post a close up image of Shūkaku's Rasengan variant to continue this discussion.--Reliops (talk) 16:09, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

So you guys decided Gaara has Magnet release based off th evidence.. but I don't see it in his page anywhere or on his infobox.. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:04, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think they decided to remove it again, since there is no actual evidence for him having it, but rather more evidence against it. For more, please check out my analysis on this topic. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:11, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm somewhat irked that my arguments were discounted so quickly when they ended up reaching the same outcome I was trying to convey anyway... --Atrix471 (talk) 18:14, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

I read it Seel. but there are a few things that you can't really say, you don't know that the 3rd Kazekage is not related to the 4th.. it was just never said if he was, or if he wasn't. He may very well end up being 4th Kaze's dad. Also Gaara was born the Jinchuriki and Magnet release is something Shukaku gives to it's hosts just like how Gyuki gives ink, logically we can say Magnet release is Earth and Lightning release and def not 3 releases because that would make it a Kekkei Tota. I still think it is very possible Gaara has Magnet release because sand is still part of earth and isn't sand just tiny rocks shaped by water? So its safe to say earth release can control sand and other rocks. I would have to go with them on this and say he has magnet release.. but it can't be proven until it is stated what two natures make magnet release and if one of those natures if earth or not. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:03, August 16, 2014 (UTC)

Kekkei Genkai
Shouldn't Magnet Release be under Kekkei Genkai as well? The Fourth Kazekage used it and Gaara still uses it even though he lost Shukaku.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 16:24, November 3, 2014 (UTC)

In the latest databook, Gaara doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai icon under his natures ad does not therefore possess Jiton.Pesa123456789 (talk) 16:04, November 6, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well in the latest databook, none of the advanced natures other than the 5 basic ones as well as Yin & Yang show up.....doesn't mean they don't possess others. Gaara's sand manipulation uses Jiton through Shukaku (or so his page says), which at one point Gaara possessed, therefore he "does" possess Jiton and it needs to be put back in his infobox. Know clue why someone keeps removing it. Senseless.--Minamoto15 (talk) 16:37, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because he doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:52, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Even though Shukaku does and was once sealed inside Gaara? Makes sense I guess. Thanks.--Minamoto15 (talk) 17:04, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Naruto doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai either. I don't know why he is listed with a Kekkei Genkai. The databook is mostly shit. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:07, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, so I'm not losing it. I was just gonna bring that up. Know where I can find the db translations?--Minamoto15 (talk) 17:16, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * There are none. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:21, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Seel, I understand Jinton having been removed as a kekkei genkai from his infobox, but why remove it from his natures?--Elve Talk Page 18:25, November 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because it'll automatically show up as Kekkei genkai regardless if you list it in his natures.--Minamoto15 (talk) 19:00, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, why is the nature removed? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 18:48, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

@Minamoto, that's not true. For example Bunpuku's infobox gives him Magnet Release with an empty kekkei genkai column. Anyway, we list most if not all sand techniques as Magnet and state in Magnet article that it controls sand, so omitting Gaara makes no sense--Elve Talk Page 20:58, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

Bump, what to do with this. Any opinions? Foxie, anyone?--Elve Talk Page 11:44, November 13, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elve, yeah I saw that. It wasn't functioning that way before though, maybe I just missed a step. On topic, all I know is that if we aren't gonna keep Jiton as a KG for Gaara even though Shukaku was sealed within him, then the same set of rules should apply for all the Jin's even though I don't completely agree with it. I was always under the impression that advanced natures were KG's.--Minamoto15 (talk) 21:03, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

Bump again, we need to make final decision here. It's pretty lame that Gaara is the only Jin (former) to not reap the benefits of not having a KG section, while all the others do though they're no different, specifically Naruto, Roshi, and Han.--Minamoto15 (talk) 15:52, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

So now Gaara isn't listed as a user of Magnet Release despite the evidence. But wait there is the excuse. "He isn't listed a user in the flawless databook." Give me a break. Many things aren't said in the databook; some things contradict things. The databook isn't really that reliable to be honest. According to some people logic, earth plus wind equals magnet release and Gaara being related to his father and being a jinchūriki of Shukaku who also manipulates sand points to it being so. Though I don't agree with the natures that make up Magnet Release, evidence supports why Gaara is a user. You guts are literally being hypocrites. Rachin123 (talk) 20:53, November 18, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * What do you even want? It was a theory that Gaara had Magnet Release, nothing else. This theory was debunked by the databook, that's all. And for the thousandth time: Gaaras has absolutely nothing to do with the natures of Magnet Release, ffs. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:04, November 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's also a theory that Magnet Release is made of earth and wind and a pretty idoitic one at that. Besides the fact it doesnt make sense, even Kishi didn't say what the elements were made of. As for you saying Gaara has nothing to do with the natures of Magnet Release, tell others who said that the relation between Gaara and his father having similar natures giving evidence that it's made of those because Gaara has lightning but his father doesn't. Not to mention it's even more stupid to say his jutsus are magnet release but he doesn't have the nature. Smh. Rachin123 (talk) 21:23, November 18, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * It is no theory and I don't give a shit if it makes sense to you or not. In fact, no one here does. So stop your complaining please. Also, Magnet Release should be removed from all of Gaara's techniques, but I'm not the one to do that. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:28, November 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * First off, do not come at me like that. Secondly, you don't have to reply. Thirdly, don't speak for everyone because I have even talked to others who agree with me, not that it's a competition but for you to say nobody cares, makes you sound ridiculous. I'm not trying to make this about me, in fact I'm trying to think logically and factually. Truth is Kishi messes up more than anything. But continue on with your business. Rachin123 (talk) 21:42, November 18, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * Now, calm down, both of you. I was the one who started the Magnet=Wind+Earth idea, but I did it in the wikia's interest, not to see people going out of their way to yell at each other. I don't care what anyone thinks, as long as there's proof of what's stated in the articles.--Mangekyō Sharingan Izuna.svg JOA20 21:49, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. We better not have this again, so I suggest we move on, shall we? So far, due to Rasa's elements, Magnet = Wind + Earth. Fine. Don't like it, but fine. And also, to quote someone, "The logic of Magnetism is similar to the magnetite (the most magnetic of all the naturally occurring minerals on Earth), which is formed by: 3 molecules of iron (earth) and 4 oxygen (wind) = Fe3O4." Alright then. Back to the subject, I don't think Gaara was listed as a KG user, so what's the debate here? Databook didn't list KG for Gaara like it did for Naruto, Roshi and Han, so what's the problem? According to the databook, Gaara doesn't have a KG. ~• WS7125 [Mod] 22:26, November 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well if you want to try and go in depth with science, then point out that "wind" contains H2O (Water) too. So are we to say water is apart of the KG? We are talking about the actual elements. No need try and go into what particles make up it to try and prove a point. FYI you breath oxegen, wind has nothing to do with it. Oxygen is always in the air. Wind is just the movement of air. In this case I'm guessing the swift movement of chakra. And are we really to trust the databook after it said Suigetsu was 3 inches taller than Sasuke. Another flaw. I can name plenty of them. But because people are so stubborn and want to put everything in the faith of the databooks, they screw up things. I'll just have to let it go. i've tried to make sense of things. I'll just worn others who may want to visit this site, that you will run into many flaws. Go at your own risk. No but I'm gonna stick to my knowledge cuz it's a lot more understandable and logical than the creator's, and that's saying something. Rachin123 (talk) 23:45, November 18, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123


 * @WS7125 and Seelentau, did the DB also state that Gaara's sand manipulation doesn't use Magnet Release? If it does state that, then wouldn't it be a good idea to note it in the form of a unique traits section? Also, just how much stock are we gonna put in the databook to begin with? Because a lot of it's content heavily contradicts the manga (not that it affects this discussion in any way) hence why I kinda concur with Rachin. For example, on this topic particularly, it's fine that Gaara isn't a KG user but the only reason possible for that is because Magnet Release is a KG of the beast itself, not Gaara. Why then does that not apply to Naruto, Han, and Roshi? Point bring, we need to watch just how much of the DB we're gonna take seriously. Just my opinion though...--Minamoto15 (talk) 00:22, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * The databook is the first source for any and all information. You can't just go and declare part of it wrong and part of it correct by yourself, just because you don't like what it says. Only if the manga obviously contradicts the databook, the manga takes precedence. For example, Danzo doesn't have Kuchiyose in his profile, but he used it in the manga.
 * Now, we never had any real proof that Gaara's techniques are Jiton. Reliops' theory was just that: A theory. It was built on facts, yes. But the databook didn't come to the same conclusion, hence we don't list Gaara as a Magnet Release user anymore.
 * The basic natures for Magnet Release weren't explained in the manga, either. However, we know that an advanced nature Kekkei Genkai is always based on two basic natures. Looking at Rasa's natures - since he is the only one whose natures we know - it can only be Wind and Earth. Every other combination is simply not possible because its already taken (Wood and Ice). And that's why we list Magnet Release as Wind + Earth. Could we end this discussion now, please? • Seelentau 愛 議 02:31, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay so that means we are throwing away being a jinchūriki gives you access to the biju nature or advanced nature. Shukaku manipulates sand with Magnet Release. Gaara manipulates sand. Gaara could also get the power from his father. Are we to say that this doesn't go for Gaara because the DB didn't say so? This has nothing to do with not liking it so get that out of your mind because what's wrong is the logic. The evidence is put in your face and yet you still deny. Despite many other things we based off theory because of evidence. I mean literally how much more evidence do you need. It didn't even take much for Tsunade to be listed presumably as a Lightning Release user before the new databook. If you fail to understand rather obvious things then good day to you. Smh. Rachin123 (talk) 02:46, November 19, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * Shukaku manipulates sand with Magnet Release? Might be, but Gaara doesn't, because Gaara can still move sand without being Shukaku's Jinchuriki. He got the power from his father? Then why doesn't it say Kekkei Genkai in the databook? Why isn't Magnet Release mentioned anywhere in relation to Gaara's techniques? Do you realize that? There is not one case where any connection was drawn between Magnet Release and Gaara's sand. Yes, the databook is flawed, but on multiple occassions regarding one issue? No. Just no. There is nothing obvious here, it's just you reading way too much into the manga. • Seelentau 愛 議 02:53, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it's you who is reading too much into the databooks. Even jinchūriki's were counted as KG users if their biju had one. Just because the beast is removee doesn't necessarily mean the user couldn't still acquire the nature or KG in thus case. This is proven as factor as Shukaku manipulates sand with Magnet Release and would you look, Gaara manipukates sand too. If you want more in your face evidence Gaara's father could be a possibility of Gaara being a user. Just becasue the DB didn't say so doesn't mean crap. Kishi didn't state a lot of stuff but we made a theory based off some evidence. Or Kishi does state something and 8/10 he contradicts the manga. So as for you saying there is "not one" connection between Gaara's sand and Magnet Release you need to rethink what you said. Like I said it's obvious. Just like apparently Magnet Release being made of earth and wind because of Rasa despite Kishi not actually stating so, however, he did give us Shukaku and hosts have been known to get their biju's natures. Wow this is completely sad. How could you not understand? Sigh. And @Seel you don't have to keep posting. If you are so annoyed with it, ignore it. Nobody is forcing you keep posting. Rachin123 (talk) 03:22, November 19, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * "Just because the beast is removee doesn't necessarily mean the user couldn't still acquire the nature or KG in thus case." - It does.
 * "Shukaku manipulates sand with Magnet Release" - Never stated in the manga or databooks.
 * "Just becasue the DB didn't say so doesn't mean crap." - I wish you would stop acting as if you were to decide what is crap and what isn't. You are not. And I can do this all day long. • Seelentau 愛 議 03:26, November 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Here is my one cent on the issue of the 4th databook's occasional disparity with the manga, and Gaara's Magnet Release. An error of omission is not as significant as an error of inclusion. For example, the databook's omission of Madara in the list of Izanagi users cannot be considered to mean a direct assertion that Madara is not a user. Although the databook's silence strongly implies the exclusion of Madara from the list, yet it is still short of an explicit declaration of an exclusion, as in the databook never directly states that Madara is not an Izanagi user. Now assuming, for example, the databook listed Tsunade as a Perfect Susanoo user, then we'll call that error of inclusion a true contradiction, because the databook is explicitly making a claim that is faulty. But in a situation like Gaara's purported Magnet Release, where the databook remains silent on it and the manga does not explicitly affirm it, it will be a mistake to build a fact out of it. My suggestion is to remove "Magnet Release" from Gaara's infobox and then explain everything that implies he might posses Magnet Release in his trivia. Putting a speculation (which might arguably be correct, but nonetheless still a speculation) into his infobox introduces an error of inclusion, whereas simply omitting it causes no harm. NoJutsu (talk) 03:31, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Here is the thing @Seel. I never said that my opinion is superior to anyone's. I even said that I am only going off logic and facts. Now for Shukaku. He is a Magnet Release user. Sand is mad of quartz which can hold magnetism. Do the math. Just like Boil Release not being stated actually to be fire and water but that's plainly obvious. Basic science. Anyways let's see when you have a user of Magnet Release manipulate sand and the host manipulates sand you put two and two together and say he uses that. Gaara like his father has earth and wind and like you guys said thats what supposedly make up Magnet release. Gaara having Magnet Release is literally right there. Kishi also didn't say Tsunade has lightning releasd yet people still put it there and put presumed. @NoJutsu I can agree that Gaara's info has not been touched on yet that didn't stop people from putting other presumed things, just saying. We can't sit here and be hypocrites especially when much if the things on this wiki is based off theories. Rachin123 (talk) 03:48, November 19, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * I don't care about math or any real life science. This is a fictional work and as long as Gaara isn't stated to be a Magnet Release user, he won't be added as one. That's all I have to say. • Seelentau 愛 議 03:57, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I find that laughable. This fiction series uses physics of real life but when someone questions something, you have the nerve to say, "It's fiction." And I'm sure you have nothing else to say because all you do or at least seem to do is rely on these flawed databooks, fact proven so. I could only say to you sir that your logic of Naruto must be all over the place seeing how that's how the databooks are too. I am not even trying to get to you Seel since you seem to have made up your mind. I wish you could understand but oh well. Rachin123 (talk) 04:04, November 19, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * @Rachin. I have to agree with you that so many stuff on here are based on theories, which is really sad. It's even ironically worse than Wikipedia, where there is even much more incentive to saturate articles with loaded statements. This discussion asides, it baffles me why some Narutowikia editors can't just stick to canon-facts, especially when there is no reason for agendas to be charged with hot sentiments; after all, this is not real life stuff. NoJutsu (talk) 04:10, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

Except dear Rachin, this has nothing to do with physics or chemistry. Wind-natured chakra is just sharp n' thin pieces of chakra, needle-like. Earth-natured chakra is chakra that can alter density and weight. There's no actual wind and gases in it nor actual earth with minerals in it.--Elve Talk Page 16:10, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly, using the facts that Magnet Release was confirmed to be an advanced nature made of two basic ones, and Rasa's elements in the databook, Magnet Earth + Wind and damn what Rachin123 says. We're no longer arguing what Magnet Release is made of, TU3 closed that discussion, so please, let's drop it. This is getting annoying. We're discussing KG here. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 17:49, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except though it isn't natural wind it is still used and technically combined with the air around it creating some sort of current of air. Like earth. They use the natural earth and conjunction with their special earth chakra to manipulate it. And @Windy nobody is arguing anynore what Magnet Release is made of so I'll stop you right there. Don't sit here ane try and say Naruto do not use physics in their logic and throughout the series. However they tend to defy it but that's another thing. What I'm try to get at is Gaara not being listed as a Magnet Release user despite some evidence. Guess that means Rasa and Gaara's third eye are completely different too, besides one being mix with gold dust. Damn what the databooks say. They had so many wrong turns, it would silly to find them so reliable. But you guys are being hyprocrites. With that said I take my leave from this talk page because I'm sick of trying to explain things that you just don't seem to get through your heads. It is what it is I guess. Rachin123 (talk) 18:23, November 19, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * Read again. It's not just that Gaara doesn't have a kekkei genkai in the book (which could be an error) but his techniques are not described as having anything to do with magnetism either. Is that an error too? In other words, unless Seel and other translators all over other forums missed some crucial information by an accident, then sand isn't moved by Magnet Release and thus it should be removed. You and others were simply wrong, get over it.--Elve Talk Page 18:44, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand why you guys are trying so hard to make something out of nothing. It has not been mentioned anywhere that gaara has magnet release and screw rasa's natures.

@raichin: yes their has been many things in the narutoverse where real-world science was implemented but that doesn't also mean that everything in naruto is. like seel said this is just a work of fiction so stop taking it seriously. Who cares if he wiki says he has magnet release or not, it's not about the wiki. it's about what you yourself personally think. opinions matter Munchvtec (talk) 19:09, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

but just to be clear, gaara doesn't have magnet release! Munchvtec (talk) 19:11, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said Sand = Magnet, so don't confuse me with those who did just yet. But considering Rachin123 has "taken his leave from this talk page" like he said, we can finally move on. We're not going to disregard the databooks because he doesn't like them. That being said, let's move on before TU3 closes this discussion, hm? ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 19:59, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Gaara is still listed as a user of Magnet Release and his jutsus. Shouldn't you guys get right on that since apparently he doesn't have it. Rachin123 (talk) 17:22, November 20, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * You can either do it yourself (and see if all of those jutsu are locked) or continue to complain loudly. The choice is yours.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 17:42, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Magnet Release should be removed from all of Gaara's techniques. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:44, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not complaining. I just find it ironic how the people who were such in a hurry to disclose him having Magnet Release didn't remove Magnet Release from his possession. However, if it's not Magnet Release. Shall we assume he using Earth Release? I mean I guess that seems right. Also was any of his techniques ranked before the change? Rachin123 (talk) 17:54, November 20, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123

Nope. Sand is being moved by nothing as far as this wiki is going to be concerned.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:56, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Back to square one. So Sand does not equal magnet due to the databook. And sand being moved by chakra isn't a possible answer rather than nothing? ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 18:10, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I was being facetious. It's obvious sand is moved with chakra. The nature of it is now nothing. Databook makes no mention of sand, but Naruto's Magnet Rasenshuriken had sand. You'd think being Shukaku's Jinchuriki would be sand but clearly that bit was not important to Kishimoto and arguing about it worked out so much better last time. So sand has no nature once again.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 18:14, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course you were. I know. So, it would be plausible to remove Magnet Release from Sand techniques now? Okay. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 18:20, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

The sand comes from something. Sand equals crushed rocks, minerals, etc. Stemming from Earth therefore Earth Release. I even remember Gaara mentioning he could create more sand by crushing the rocks in his fight against Kimimaro. Also I remember there being ranks for the jutsus before the Magnet Release change. Rachin123 (talk) 18:24, November 20, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123

@TU3, we're so lucky Reliops isn't here to counter this. He's on a paid vacation. I wonder who'll remove Magnet now.... ~• WS7125 [Mod] 18:27, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'll do so. However do you guys consent to the sand being manipulated with earth release chakra? Rachin123 (talk) 18:31, November 20, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * No? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:32, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sand is just a tool being moved by chakra. ~• WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 18:34, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * So was these jutsus ever ranked? I sworn they were once before the change of it being Magnet Release controlling sand and since KG aren't ranked, it was removed. Rachin123 (talk) 18:38, November 20, 2014 (UTC)Rachin123
 * Well, that would've been bullshit. Just check the databooks for ranks. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:40, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1st) We should still keep Gaara with Magnet Release, 'cause we know that Shukaku has it (and gives it to its jinchūriki), 2nd) Gaara used it to move Rasa's Gold Dust against Gengetsu, didn't he?--Omojuze (talk) 18:42, November 20, 2014 (UTC)

There was one sand jutsu in the third data bok that had a rank. Munchvtec (talk) 18:48, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * But hiden jutsu also used to not have a rank, but some of them do now. I think we shouldn't rush in removing Magnet Release from the sand-based jutsu yet, but I guess that's just me. The whole logic of "it was never stated in the databook" is meh.. to me, 'cause the databook made LOTs of mistakes. We should only improve articles, not remove info from 'em. But again, i guess its just me..--Omojuze (talk) 18:51, November 20, 2014 (UTC)