Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26388300-20160301040622/@comment-27823212-20160319192006

Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote: 8Gates wrote: Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote: Instead of trying to constantly downplay adult Naruto, Sasuke, and the new Gokage. You should do the logical opposite, and instead use their performance against Momoshiki and Kinshiki (who are a threat greater than Kaguya together) to showcase just how powerful they all are nowadays. Arguing about whether or not Hashirama can beat Sasuke now or not is not worth addressing. The series has made it clear who is stronger back in 2014, and has continued to make the gap in power even more severe since then. Only Naruto and Sasuke haters and/or Hashirama and Madara fanboys would still to this day continue to say that VOTE Hashirama and Madara can compete with Naruto and Sasuke at this point. Yes of course. The author obviously intends for Gaara and the other Kage to be above Hashirama/Madara since they can competently fight Momoshiki & Kinshiki whom would rip Hashirama & Madara's heads off before they can blink, correct?

If this is what you're saying then you aren't really worth being taken seriously. The Kages fighting opponents on the level that give Naruto & Sasuke trouble would logically prove the opposite to what you're asserting which would be that Naruto & Sasuke were never as strong as you thought they were.

Thekillman wrote: 8Gates wrote: The point about Sasuke being multiple times faster and having multiple times more chakra, better stats, etc. than Hashirama is blatant nonsense that doesn't need addressing. Sasuke doesn't even have chakra on par with Kurama. When gifted chakra by Hagoromo, it's true that his reserves would be much greater than Hashirama. But as proven time and again in the series, chakra gifts are temporary. Since then, Sasuke's chakra reserves would've reverted to his original amount.

This is made clear in the Boruto movie, where Sasuke makes a couple of dozen clones and mentions Naruto can make thousands, meaning his reserves are not remotely comparable to Naruto and thus not even near Hashirama's.

Just wanted to clear that up.

As to speed feats etc, i don't think anything meaningful can be said. Hashirama however tied with an EMS Madara, and while EMS Sasuke wasn't on that level, Rinnegan Sasuke is clearly above EMS Madara.

That, and the Rinnegan would give Hashirama enough trouble. Plus, Amaterasu would make mincemeat of Wood Release. 50% of Hagoromo's chakra were the Yin & Yang seals. Hagoromo's chakra was never truly apart of Sasuke to begin with. He lost Hagoromo's chakra after using Six Paths CT.

The only difference between Rinnegan Sasuke & Ems Sasuke is the Rinnegan & the fact that he can manifest Perfect Susano'o on his own due to the superior ocular power. They possess the exact same physical stats.

Amaterasu is countered by purging the affected area of Hashirama's body with Mokuton. None of the Kage single-handedly fought Momoshiki and Kinshiki and overwhelmed them. Not to mention in the Boruto novelisation Gaara and Darui's taijutsu skills were compared to Naruto and Sasuke's in their fight against the Otsutsuki. Naruto and Sasuke are as strong as I said they were, as the series has said and shown.

False, Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode and Sasuke's Rinnegan are products of Hagoromo's chakra. If the seals were the only thing that gave them half of Hagoromo's chakra, they would have instantly lost all of their powers after said seals were removed. Sasuke flat-out stated that their powers were a result of Hagoromo, they still have those powers, meaning that they still have Hagoromo's chakra. This is an indisputable fact. The wiki even says it itself and cites it's sources. Adult Naruto and Sasuke > The Last Naruto and Sasuke > War Arc SPSM Naruto and Sasuke >>> VOTE Sage Mode Hashirama and EMS Madara + Kurama. I will no longer waste my time responding to anymore anti-Sasuke comments. This has been debated over and over again since the Manga ended and it's already been decided. The novelization states that they are all 1st class when it comes to taijutsu, not that they are all equal. Darui & Gaara pressuring Momoshiki whom clashes evenly with Sasuke doesn't put Darui and Gaara at a level where they can kill Hashirama & Madara. That's blatant idiocy.

It was never stated that Naruto and Sasuke's powers came from Hagoromo's chakra anywhere. Half of Hagoromo's power was already stated to be the seals. Naruto states that he can feel the other fragment of Hagoromo's power, then it is explained chapters later that this was the resonance of the Yin & Yang seals.

Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode is the Biju's power as stated, same as it is for a Ten Tails' Jinchuriki.

It's stated in official material that Hagoromo gifted them with power, but that doesn't imply that such power comes from half of his chakra. Hagoromo making Naruto the meeting point "gifts" him with Six Paths Sage Mode and the Biju being the source is already blatantly stated.

Sasuke didn't awaken the Rinnegan from receiving half of Hagoromo's chakra. The databook simply states that he received it directly and there isn't any reason that his Rinnegan would disappear.

It produces it's own Six Paths power.

Sasuke states that they both benefited for Six Paths power. Sasuke's Six Paths power being the Rinnegan and Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode coming from the Biju, whom Hagoromo had made him the meeting point for.

Your saying that Sasuke possesses half of Hagoromo's chakra when it's already stated by Momoshiki & Kinshiki that Gyuuki and Kurama possess more chakra than Sasuke. This little theory of yours doesn't hold up.

The author has never portrayed them at the level you suggest, no character has made any statement that would suggest such a thing, but what can I say? Fanboys will be fanboys.