Talk:Kisame Hoshigaki

Abilities
I have added the following information under the "abilties" category, as it appears greatly relevant to Kisame's strength.

Kisame himself proved powerful enough to successfully capture the Yonbi Jinchuriki after beating him half to death, despite noting his target's exceptional powers. Though a difficult task by his own admission, Kisame merely complains that he is "a bit tired". This is quite a significant feat, when taken into account how quickly Jiraiya's personal summon, Gamabunta was overpowered by Shukaku, the Ichibi (one tail).

I'm not very confident in how it flows into the next subject, though. Any suggestions and help would be much appreciated. --~Mizukage~ 05:44, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The last portion of said addition was removed for the following reason: "Not as signifigant as one would think because in many cases summons arent that all powerful."

This may be true in some cases, but should not apply to chief summons. Manda threatened Orochimaru's life on more than one occasion, oblivious to the fact that he had been handicapped at the time. Jiraiya and Gamabunta are called partners, but Jiraiya himself states that even he can't handle him very well. They are at least heavily implied to be peers in strength. --~Mizukage~ 21:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

My edit note isn't going to fit, so I'll leave it here.

I've changed this:

Kisame himself proved powerful enough to successfully capture the Four-Tailed Beast's Jinchūriki without much effort or damage on him, despite noting his target's exceptional powers. Though an hard task, Kisame merely complains that he is "a bit tired".

Back to this:

Kisame himself proved powerful enough to successfully capture the Four-Tailed Beast's Jinchūriki, despite noting his target's exceptional powers. Though a difficult task by his own admission, Kisame merely complains that he is "a bit tired".

It flows better - refering to the difficulty of the task twice is redundant. But not only that, it's inaccurate. It refers twice to the level of difficulty, but says something different in each case. "Without much effort" is at odds with "hard task".

The reason I'm bothering to post this here is to urge people not to edit just for the sake of editing - that section of text was fine as it was. It doesn't actually help us, but instead gives us more to fix. So be concious of the material you are editing. --~Mizukage~ 22:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Earth
This-Earth Release: Underground Submarine Voyage. Where did this name come from? He didn't mention the name in anime, nor in manga, it looked more like Inner Decapitation technique.Paths 12:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The technique is explained in the third databook. --ShounenSuki 12:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank youPaths 12:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

akatsuki
is it notable that he is only member left akatsuki that doesn't have a major role in the organization
 * I wouldn't say that... Hakinu talk 21:47, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

he finishes unfinished jobsNolanRiot (talk) 14:14, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Also. Since when is capturing hosts on his own not a major role? He did it once already and was sent (as Nolan said above) to capture the eight tails. That's pretty major in my book.

Dantheman 11.24

Needs citation / sounds biased
"Although Kisame does have his pride, he acknowledged Itachi as the stronger of the duo."

Cite this please.

its not biased, chapter 144(japanese version):

Kisame states "While you(Itachi) may be able to manage against him, I couldn't possibly...He's in a completely different level..."

by his own admission it was revealed that although he[Kisame] couldnt handle Jiraiya, maybe Itachi can...


 * And it seems logical that Kisame said he couldn't handle Jiraiya... why? Kisame is so strong by being able to suck the opponent's chakra and convert it for stamina, chakra for himself whatever etc. If he were to fight Jiraiya and the latter be forced to use Sage Mode, if Kisame were to suck that chakra... Samehada would have turned into a stone frog sword (get it?:)) like pain's preta path did) or he would have turned into a stone frog if he would have transferred the chakra to himself:D But this may sound like supposition, that is why we would have to see a battle between kisame and naruto to see if that would happen:D - MadaraU (talk) 13:55, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Screentime
i personally beleieve that Kisame is the most recurring memeber of akatsuki appearing with itachi mid-way through part 1 and still alive as one of the last three members, if you feel you must change this tidbit in the trivia section, PLEASE discuss it here.--72.75.228.65 (talk) 17:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

this referance makes no sense
it says that karin never saw so much chakra in one place... and as referance it has the 8th one - naruto manga 260 page 16

but checking that page, it's the one about kakashi vs itachi... karin wasn't even introduced back then... any explination? --89.122.145.106 (talk) 10:11, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone must have changed the numbers. Cause it happen. Jacce | Talk 10:15, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, that ref shows that Kisame just had 30% chakra, while his power was stated later. Jacce | Talk 10:23, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

About the seven swordsmen
it sais that they were using particulary big weapons...whereas Raiga...a former member...used 2 one-handed short swords...I think you should look to change that passage...--Yumetai (talk) 20:00, November 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, Raiga is from an anime filler arc, which are hardly even canon... Mimixcarr (talk) 08:27, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * The second databook quite clearly stated that all the Swordsmen use large swords. --ShounenSuki (talk 09:10, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

the filler arc clearly states that Raiga was a seven swordsmen of the the mist i don look at the data books, and i dont know who makes them, but mashashito kishimoto has complete control over the anime episodes and i trust them more than the data books it is also possible that the data book had a mistake, and we know that us possible because one data book had zetsu as being from the hidden leaf village and we know hes not the data book prob had a mistake, or the person who makes them just assumed that they were all big swords (also, in the picture for the seven swordsmen of the mist, the guys on their knees as if bowing have thin swords like raigas, so that proves my point more) --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 03:08, November 14, 2009 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

ROFL, Kishimoto is the one who makes the Databooks, so for you to say the databook has a mistake, means that you are saying that Kishimoto made a mistake of his own series. The anime, while approved of Kishimoto, is not under the direct control and directing of him from what I know, and many of the fillers are just fillers for the anime, so they can wait for the manga to get so distance between it's storyline and the anime, as anime episodes can at times cover 2-3 chapters at a time. As for the Zetsu thing, either a) the people who showed the information on the internet mistranslatied from the databook, or b) they got the information from a wrong source. Point is, the anime, while somewhat following the manga (Which IS cannon), is at times wrong, mostly during filler arcs, so Raiga is merely an filler character used to kill time. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 03:33, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

There is no reason to assume that Kishimoto cannot make a mistake in his databook. He has marked the "Rescue Kazekage" mission as A-rank, which is clearly wrong. It has to be a S-Rank mission, because you cannot possibly say that there are too many missions more important or difficult than rescuing the village leader of an ally, and yet a number of experienced characters in the Narutoworld have completed more than a handful S-Rank missions. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 04:18, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Dude... if Kishi says it is A-rank, and he like invented the mission difficulties (along with the rest of the Narutoverse), then it was an A-rank mission LOL. Besides it could have been named A-rank (in the story) because they (Konoha & friends) did not know what they were going up against (DEIDARA AND SASORI WERE THE FIRST AKATSUKI TO BE FOUGHT BY THE GOOD GUYS... in the open at least - trivia much?:D ) Bottom line for all the crazy things I heard in this talk: Databooks must be taken word for word (as long as they are correctly translated) Fillers: meh, the anime guys screw up even some canon stuff (such as when they made Pain's eyes yuch:))) so I am guessing they don't talk to Kishi too often - MadaraU (talk) 13:49, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, sure, if you want to take the easy way out (and let Kishi do the same), that's fine. As far as I am concerned, once the author has made some rules in the story, even he has to follow them consistently. If Kishi says in the next databook that Moegi is stronger than Kakashi and Jiraiya, and you say that it has to be correct because Kishi said so, then that's fine with me. I cannot do anything about it, and it's none of my business anyway. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 15:11, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

By the way, the rank of a mission is not decided after the mission by taking into account what happened during the mission. It is decided when the client comes to the Hokage and gives the details. In case of "Rescue Kazekage" mission, the Sand's messenger bird came with a message of Level 1 emergency alert, and the rank of the mission was to be decided there and then. If a level 1 emergency alert from an allied village does not call for a S-Rank mission, then what does? I was just wondering if Naruto were doing a D-rank dog walking mission, and Kisame appears on the scene to fight with him, then does the dog walking mission suddenly becomes a A-rank mission? LOL. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 15:16, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Random trivia note for you Geijutsu, in the manga it is an A rank, in the anime, S-rank mission. So many differences. Now as to WHY they might have put it as A-rank, I don't know honestly. Also, an A-rank is appropriate for rescuing a leader of a village, as A-rank can concern village or country-level problems. Had they known about Itachi and Kisame, they probably would have raised it to S-rank, for the fact of having to deal with around half of an Organization full of "S-rank" criminals. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 04:59, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

You are still saying the same thing. Let me emphasise it again. The rank of a mission is decided when the Hokage accepts the mission from the client, after going through the requirements mentioned by the client. It is not decided after the mission is completed, by analysing what happened during the mission.

Aside from that, the message from the sand said that "The Kazekage has been kidnapped by the Akatsuki", and that means you can pretty much assume that you have to go against the whole Akatsuki organization.

Then, you say that A-rank mission concerns the village or the country. If that is so, then what, according to you, is the concern of S-Rank missions? Just go through Jiraiya's trivia section. He has completed 138 S-Rank missions. Isn't it a little far-fetched to think that there are that many missions more important or more difficult than the "Rescue Kazekage" mission?

However, we have slightly deviated from the main point here. Someone here said that "Kishi writes the databooks, and there cannot be any mistakes in the databook", whereas my point was that, "Kishi is still a human being, and he can make mistakes." I just brought the "Rescue Kazekage" mission to illustrate my point. If you now say, "Kishi might make mistakes in the databook, but even so, we would accept that as right.", then I would agree with that, but if you keep saying, Kishi can never maki mistakes while writing databooks, then I certainly don't agree. I hope you agree with me on this one. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 05:14, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, alright, while I had never said Kishi couldn’t make mistakes while making the databook, I admit I did imply it, but really, what are the chances of that happening? But I guess it could happen, he can make mistakes too, Killer Bee’s transformations are an example of that. However, when I first replied here, it was not Kishi making a mistake I was talking about, I was meaning to say to Sasuke-Blaze that the fillers are not cannon, or part of the real story, and Raiga is just a kill-time character. As for the S-rank/A-rank..... *Shrugs.* Either Kishi decided not to put it as an A-rank in the manga and later put it in the anime as S-rank, or there is some detail we don’t know about, like him making a mistake. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 00:33, November 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if you're all completely aware of this, but Kishimoto-sensei has little to no input in the anime. The anime creators made a mistake with Raiga and with the ranking of the Kazekage rescue mission as well. From our point of view, Kishimoto-sensei is incapable of mistakes, unless he admits to one or contradicts himself. --ShounenSuki (talk 02:12, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Who are included in this "our"? You are worshipping him like Mikami of Death Note worshipped Yagami Raito. Kishi is not GOD, he is a human, and he can make mistakes, just like you and me. As I have said before, it is alright if you say that even if he makes a mistake, we would still accept it as right, but certainly not that he cannot make mistakes. There is nothing wrong in making mistakes, so there is nothing wrong in admitting that someone made a mistake. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 12:49, November 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * "Our" refers to the editors of this encyclopædia and to Naruto fans in general. I never said Kishimoto-sensei is incapable of making mistakes, what I meant was that it is impossible for us to know when he made a mistake, unless Kishimoto-sensei admits it or contradicts himself. So from the point of view of his fans and the editors here, everything Kishimoto-sensei says is correct. There is no point in arguing about whether or not he made a mistake.
 * So when Kishimoto-sensei says that the Kazekage rescue mission was A-rank, it was A-rank. When he says the Seven Swordsmen wield large swords, they wield large swords. Only if and when Kishimoto-sensei goes against these facts or says they are incorrect, can we assume they were mistakes. Until then, it is the anime that is incorrect. --ShounenSuki (talk 13:36, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Killer Bees transformations are a mistake? What a ignorant comment. Where do you go being above the author and telling him what is right?I can't believe what I am reading people so full of themselves they think they are over the author. Link to me where Kishi said you decide how missions are ranked or its bs. Mission ranks are decided after the client gives the details of the mission not after the mission is done. As for Jiraiya I doubt he rescued the hokage 138 times, nowhere did Kishi say that S-rank missions were saving kage level ninja, besides they're kage level ninja if they can't save themselves well thats a problem.Saimaroimaru (talk) 08:06, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

What is this?
Kisame seems to have a thing for a ninja S-Class title. As he sulked that Jiraiya's "Legendary Sannin" title sounded better than "Itachi of the Uchiha Clan" and "Monster of the Mist" - I don't get it... I was under the impression that what he meant was that if he and Itachi were to challenge Jiraiya, the names Uchiha and Seven Swordsmen would be put to shame. - MadaraU (talk) 12:20, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, it makes no sense. There isn't even such a thing as an S-class title. I'm removing it. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:14, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

ouch
Kisame is now dead... although unconfirmed... can someone please update that for us? Thanks Nat12345919 (talk) 18:35, November 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * It will be updated tomorrow or, if the admins get annoyed enough, later today. I personally doubt he's dead but... ~SnapperTo 19:21, November 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * It will be updated tommorow, at earliest 12:00am at the dot.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:07, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Kisame's head was removed from his body, but wich was the jutsu he was going to du before they do so? he maybe dead, maybe not.Jazy1993 (talk) 23:19, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

The fun thing is that - Kisame appears to be remarking about how fast he was attacked AFTER he was decapitated (his head flies up and appears to be upside down while he says that, grinning ).. I think he's going to survive this the same way Suigetsu can get cut in half etc - who knows, being ninjas of pretty much the same specialisation - perhaps Kisame can liquify / reform his body as well.. atleast to an extent.

Er... I'm pretty sure Kisame is dead. Think about it, he lost the cloak as well, and every one so far who's done that has died. --Hasofcd (talk) 06:26, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Kisame performed a last technique before his "death". Suiton: Daikoudan may be translated as Water Release: Big Shark Projectile or Water Release: Body Substitution. So, he may be alive. Shadow Abyss (talk) 08:58, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

He's dead,The Jutsu he used(or try to) was "Big Shark Bullet."

User:GohanRULEZ|Sting! TenRyuoh!]] 10:17, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure about his death because he said that he wasn't match for their speed after being decapitated. This is not the first time he survived a fatal blow, some chapters ago his chest was fully opened at point his ribs were exposed and he has not died or fainted. I think it is better to wait for more informations. Shadow Abyss (talk) 18:53, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

I think it's safe for him to be presumably deceased, though. Hasofcd (talk) 20:26, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

He's definitely dead. He did survive a fatal blow but that was cuz he used Samehada to heal him...now he doesnt have Samehada so he cant heal n plus if he did have Samehada there's no way it cood put his head back together. Kisame is dead--Moiz1224 (talk) 20:52, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

I think we ought to put «presumably deceased» instead of «deceased» in the infobox --Sennoman (talk) 18:48, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

I didn't realise that a topic had been opened for this, before I made a similar comment on another topic below. There is not enough reason to convince us that Kisame is dead. I am not saying that he is not dead, just that we do not know yet.

''Reason 1: He lost the Akatsuki cloak, and everyone who lost the cloak, has died. '' - There is no rule that everyone who has lost the cloak should die. It has so happened until now, but there is no reason to assume that the author would not change the pattern this time. Moreover, wouldn't it be easier for Kakashi and Naruto to just hold Madara and take off his cloak? Presto! He is dead. Sorry, that is absurd.

''Reason 2: He does not have Samehada anymore. '' - What makes you think that Kisame has no other powers of his own? Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 14:36, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Fucked Up Imagery
in the last few chapters we have seen inconcistency with dialouge and images (like kirabis nuber of cloaks) but in chapter 473 page 8 it CLEARLY showed his final Words WHILE HIS DECAPITED HEAD WAS LIKE 15 FEET IN THE AIR. not only that rather then getting out of the way and not in the least bit being suprised he just stood there and let the attaack him at least that gets a notable mention.--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 06:53, November 28, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan

How do I edited infobox?
Someone's gotta stick "Deceased" in there. :P Teamrocketspy621 (talk) 16:14, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

Last Words
Shouldn't we keep to tradition and put Kisame's last words, like we do for all the other members and characters that have died thoughout the series? KiumaruHamachi

i agree. Although they weren't as honorable as other last words.--SixthMizukage (talk) 19:37, November 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * True... but still... i believe that those who die should at least have their last words quoted. KiumaruHamachi

Hold it! Why is everyone assuming that Kisame is dead? Don't speculate till the author confirms it. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 14:27, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Gayjutsu, stop acting like you know so much hi isnt hidan his head flew of, he might not be dead it could be the jutsu he used before with only more of his chakra, But he is dead untill the autoer says hes alive, but he is dead for now. Kouseki (talk) 19:02, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Hidan had immortality as long as he kept killing people, Kisame didn't. And him being wrong doesn't give you the right to be rude to him, so keep your opinions to yourself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:35, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Huh! That's a strange rule. A person is considered alive until he is confirmed dead. Here, it looks like things work the opposite way. A person is dead until he is confirmed alive. Great. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 04:26, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Yeah, let's just forget about the fact that this part of discussion is about Kisame's last word and his head flew clearly from his neck, unless his a worm, I doubt Kisame is walking any minute now, also, with Raikage around I doubt he can be alive much longer even if he were.


 * No, that was a strange rule of thumb I've been trying very hard to snuff out. It's stupid to assume someone is alive when they were clearly shown to be killed. Someone being beheaded is an obvious death, and the person is then dead until proven otherwise.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 04:49, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, so even Sasuke was "dead" when Deidara used his C0, and then became "alive" after it was revealed that he teleported with Manda's help. Fine, do whatever you want. Geijustu wa bakuhatsu da (talk) 04:56, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Sasuke survived because he summoned Manda and went into Manda's mouth and Deidara went boom. Either way he was considered dead until Suigetsu summoned him and Sasuke came out of is mouth. But either way he was considered dead until he was proven alive.--SixthMizukage (talk) 05:27, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Even if Kisame is capable of surviving with his head cut off, or living as a disembodied head, it doesn't matter, because it was Kakuzu who patched up disembodied Akatsuki members, and Kakuzu is dead now. If Kisame survived, he's as valuable as Hidan now. Remembering that this is a manga and anatomy doesn't actually count for anything, I think he said it with his last breath, before the whole dying thing kicked in.