Talk:Tailed Beast

genders
As proven many times, the gender classification refers to mental and social identity rather than biological status. It may be annoying I keep bringing this up, but it's true. I would stop if it weren't for instances like Swirl Zetsu which we list as male, but why don't we then the Tailed Beasts? The would be point "genderless pronouns" is moot since we can tell clearly that Kurama is a he both mentally and biologically. I see no feminine personality traits or physical features--Elveonora (talk) 12:12, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * It would be wise to not go into this subject as it is just a can of worms waiting to explode.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:21, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, but just curious, was Swirl Zetsu specifically referred to as "he" in the manga? On top of that, are we just going to ignore that the Five-Tails was given female voice in the anime?--Elveonora (talk) 12:45, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * No clue about Swirl Zetsu, but I assume considering Zetsu is listed as male all of his clones would as well. And yes we are going to ignore the Five-Tails female voice, because Naruto also has a female voice actress, and yeah male. Not uncommon in Japan. Or in America to be honest.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:13, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except all female voice actress for male characters in Naruto do sound male, this one doesn't, perhaps intentionally. For Swirl Zetsu, I beg Seelentau for investigation if the Japanese dialogue somehow suggests a gender, because anatomically "he" is barely anything--Elveonora (talk) 13:42, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * I did mention "clone"...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:49, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

So? Anatomically, Swirl Zetsu is less of a man than other Zetsus, he doesn't even have visible internal or external organs. Again, gender doesn't refer to genetics. I meant if Seelentau could check all the Swirl Zetsu dialogue if there's anything suggesting masculinity or male pronouns.--Elveonora (talk) 14:00, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not going into the physics and metaphysics on gender identity. I'm just saying, in Swirl Zetsu's case because Zetsu has been identified as male, that as a clone, Swirl was also identified as such. I repeat I am not and will not get into the physics and metaphysics of gender identity.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * I won't encourage this discussion either, since it's simply not up to us to decide if any character is male or female. Seelentau 愛議 14:41, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds wise... for the forthcoming future, here I depart again with a tail in between my legs. Just please confirm or deny Swirl Zetsu being male or anything for that matter, so it goes in accordance with what you just wrote above instead of "us" deciding that he "must" be male since Zetsu is one. They are more of a siblings than clones. And since Orochimaru "wasn't" (was in fact) a female biologically in Part I. it should be even so it's not hypocritical.--Elveonora (talk) 14:53, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no "he" or "she" in Japanese. Seelentau 愛議 15:03, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * And unless the third databook entry has been wrong for the past 2 or 3 years, Zetsu was listed as male.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:06, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * The thing is, he wasn't. Seelentau 愛議 18:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ho hooo then.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:09, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? Now I feel offended and grossed.--Elveonora (talk) 22:02, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Young Biju image
Why was a 1080p png image replaced by an image of inferior quality across the tailed beasts articles without discussion ? I'm posting this here rather than 9 times over all the tailed beasts articles. --Speysider Talk Page 19:53, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

well feel free to replace those images with 1080 higher res versions.--RexGodwin (talk) 20:43, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Manga images
Ok, seriously? Do we need these anymore? We have perfectly fine anime images of the exact same thing, without the awkward borders/backgrounds, plus Jinchuriki in the images...and its not like any of the Biju have any massive differences between the mediums, they look exactly the same..--RexGodwin (talk) 22:17, September 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * They're staying. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 22:27, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

No need to act all high and mighty.. maybe actually say a reason?--RexGodwin (talk) 22:32, September 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * TTF, calm down, no need to be aggressive / hostile to a legitimate question...
 * What reason is there to keep both ? The anime depicted the tailed beasts without any differences so I have no idea why we've kept the manga image this long. --Speysider Talk Page 22:58, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well i'd say the previous anime images of the lesser seen Bijū weren't as good as the artbook images, but now that we literally have the exact images in animated form, i don't see a reason.--RexGodwin (talk) 23:13, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wait, are you referring to the one on this page. 'Cuz that's the one I was talking about. The ones on the Bijū's individual pages, I'm not so sure about. Bring it up on their talk pages. Saves confusion. Or be more specific in the future. I thought you were referring to the one we have of them collectively in a group from the artbook on this page, which is staying until the anime provides us some better rendition. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 23:49, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. Yeah i meant as their infobox ones. Agreed about on this page, the manga one is good since it shows all of them.--RexGodwin (talk) 23:56, September 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind the decision that is made here will most likely effect many more characters and should also have influence in the previous discussion about the Part I and Part II tabs. Carry on.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:21, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Since this will effect at least nine pages and to keep it all in one place I'll make my comment here rather than the individual pages. I agree with no longer needing the manga image in the infoboxs of each Tailed Beast. The anime has perfect representations of each now. Arrancar79 (talk) 17:39, September 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * The problem is that, although the anime has depicted them, they're technically not canon representations, because the song they were shown in (the tailed beast counting song) is an anime OVA and it would piss off a lot of users if we started swapping out images of tailed beasts that are "canon" with non-canon images from an OVA. Just to make people aware. However, I would have no objection to just removing the manga images for the tailed beasts and leaving the anime image there. --Speysider Talk Page 18:27, September 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fortunately in this case it seems they were nearly exact representations of the depiction in the manga for what it's worth. Arrancar79 (talk) 20:58, September 18, 2013 (UTC)y


 * Point of Clarification: The mange image we use for all the Tailed Beast have not appeared in the mange either, they all came from a fanbook/artbook. That is just about the same as the omake song the images in question came from. Carry on.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:44, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

It's better to keep those manga image for comparison since the anime and the manga images aren't from the original anime and the original manga. I think the animators who did the song took those artbook images for this work. That's all  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 21:47, September 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I contend that the omake image is as canon as any other episode because it's a true representation of their likeness, the quality is high and the fan/artbook images have their jinchūriki in the picture as well. If they stay then it seems like they should be second, I mean why not put the higher quality image first. Anime is the format used throughout the wiki with few exceptions like Hanzō and A, which I think should be reversed as well but I don't want to get into that here. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:31, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

yeah who cares what the image is from, its the perfect representation of the manga images, but in animated form and without awkward borders and other characters.--RexGodwin (talk) 22:52, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well no one has responded so im gonna go ahead and remove the manga images.--RexGodwin (talk) 13:47, September 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * As you were the one to start it, nor have I seen a agreement reached, you are not in a position to decide the discussion is closed.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:25, September 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Now that that's been taken care of, how about we do actually come to a conclusion, because I would like this, and the rest of the "Anime/Manga" images to reach a ending.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:28, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see a need to come to a conclusion. There's no need to take out the manga image at all. The previous depiction of the tailed beast weren't inaccurate, it's just that we wanted both versions of the image in the infoboxes. The same goes for the current Kage (except A). If you prefer the anime one, simply click on the tab.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:34, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * And I've been trying (hard) to point out the potential problems with having some articles having two images for anime/manga, others having two images for Part I and II, then others having a single image, then others having images of forms.
 * As the self appointed Consistency Admin Guy Person(tm) that just screams a problem. And I've been trying to have that discussion for months and nobody seems to want to talk about it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:54, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * And if memory serves me correctly, I got into an argument with ShounenSuki about the previous pictures of the tailed beasts and the reason they ended up with two images was because such things like color was off (Eight-Tails), slime looked off (Six-Tails), ect.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:59, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I just like the manga images better. I'm not going to cut corners with that or find minuscule reasons like black backgrounds for the manga image to stay. I remember that part of the reason the whole tabs in the infobox was created was so that both factions could have their preference in terms of images as well as to correct discrepancies and all that. That being said, with the whole addition of part 1 and part 2 images I guess you could create some guidelines for it: I think that each case would be different, so consistency may need to be a bit more flexible in this case.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:11, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * usually it is manga vs. anime when there's a discrepancy in terms of appearance.
 * if said person has a part II image for example but they are depicted incorrectly in the anime, part II image is moved to the article and manga image take precedence.
 * there should also be a discretionary addition for images or forms where it can either be added to the infobox or moved to the article e.g. Shinju and Ultimate Summoning Beast.

Family
I noticed that each Tailed Beast has the Sage of the Six Paths listed as "Creator" on the family part of their infoboxes. But should the other Tailed Beasts be listed on their pages as well? For example:

In the infobox of Shukaku:

Hagoromo Otsutsuki (Creator)

Matatabi (Sibling)

Isobu (Sibling)

Son Goku (Sibling)

Kokuo (Sibling)

Saiken (Sibling)

etc... --RIkudo (talk) 17:42, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

Ten-Tails
Is it really a Tailed Beast? Well, maybe we have more evidences appointing to yes, but, from all I knew, I thought tailed beasts are enourmous monsters of chakra, that have different abilities and a different number of tails, created by Sage of Six Paths, from Ten-Tails Chakra. That primordial monster, is enormous contruct of chakra, but, it is not created by Sage. This get in my mind, when I was thinking about Six Paths of Pain and Six Paths Techinique. Six Paths of Pain, is just a style that Nagato created to use the latter. Tailed Beast are just a "new style of Ten-Tails" created by the Sage. Six Paths of Pain, can be even considered a Six Paths Techinique, but Six Paths Techinique is not Six Paths of Pain. Tailed Beast are nicknamed that, not the Ten-Tails, so they are Tailed Beast but the First Monster not. Like Kurama said, it is like a force of nature that acts by instinct, and tailed beast have intelligence. They're different things, so, Ten-Tails can not be considered a Tailed Beast. MaskedManMadara (talk) 13:57, January 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Discussed before. To long didn't read: it probably shouldn't be, but it's the best classification that can be given to it without going stupid.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:11, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

@MMM, don't bother, tried once, twice, thrice to no avail. It's gonna stay a tailed beast in here also gedo mazo and shinju will have separate articles despite being the same thing, just because... :P --Elveonora (talk) 16:28, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Chakra has chakra?
So I don't understand. It says the tailed beasts are chakra monsters, but at the same time they have chakra. The reason why I bring thi up is because in chapter 666 obito ripped of a 'portion' of the eight tails and one tail. Does that mean he ripped off a part of themselvees, as in their consciousness, or just their chakra?--AsianInvasion711 (talk) 23:05, March 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * The tailed beasts are made of immense reserves of chakra, that's why they are called Chakra Monsters. For now, all we know is that Obito took a fragment of chakra from the One-Tail and the Eight-Tails. We do not know wheter there is some consciousness in these fragments.--JOA20 (talk) 23:22, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

You are taking that too literary. There were created from chakra. But they have real physical bodies which create chakra and can even run out if chakra and have to restore it using meditation or whatever, like Shinobi.--Elveonora (talk) 00:18, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

Summoning
The Ten-Tails was also subjected to the use of Summoning Technique just like Kurama. We need to add that to the Trivia section--MERCURIOUS (talk) 19:01, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Chapter 663 page 13. Madara summoned it and then sealed it inside of him.--MERCURIOUS (talk) 15:59, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * He didn't summon it, he remade it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:09, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * What are you on about Ulti? The Ten-Tails was summoned as Gedo Mazo--Elveonora (talk) 16:09, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * He actually did summon it. After the Statue absorbed the beasts, it vanished in a blast of smoke. Later on, when Madara wanted to become the jinchūriki, he is shown making a handseal and summoning it back to the battlefield. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 16:22, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Also this. We were told not once that Rinnegan user can summon the Ten-Tails. Explanation for that? Don't ask, no idea, but it's true--Elveonora (talk) 16:27, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Examples please? I can only recall the pulling of the beasts into the statue, a bunch of crying that Naruto and Sasuke were dying, and then Madara casually jamming the Ten-Tails into his gut.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:44, July 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * /LookedMySelf, Ah yes. The Ten-Tails reformed someplace else and Madara brought it back once it was done. I stand correct corrected.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:49, July 16, 2014 (UTC)

TB Manga images
I can see this has been discussed before, but I'll try again. How about removing the TB manga images from their respective pages, and adding them someplace else on their page. And then keep the images with their Jinjuricki on them. What do you say? --Kasan94  Talkpage 20:21, July 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. I think it's necessary to depict the manga image with their jinchuriki present, and moving the image from the infobox to an appropriate section of the article would be the best move. Especially since we've now removed Konan's manga image due to it being inconsistent, this is the same. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 20:27, July 29, 2014 (UTC)

Bump --Kasan94  Talkpage 13:02, July 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I tried doing the edit on the Shukaku page, What do you think? --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 14:24, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * That looks good! Just be aware that it may not always be possible to use the same structure, but try to get as close as possible :) --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 15:39, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * I will try that, can you revert those pics where the jinjuricki's where cut out? Just use this as a reason for it. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 17:32, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Why are these manga images being kept in the articles? ~SnapperTo 17:44, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * They were kept in the infoboxes for years, plus they are a good depiction of the tailed beast with their most recent jinchuriki. If anime versions of the manga pics exist, then they can be used, but until that time, the manga image can be used. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 17:46, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

I have now moved them all, if you could take a look it would be great, since some of them I'm not to sure about how I placed them. --Kasan94  Talkpage 17:59, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Why is it important to have a picture of the beast with their host?
 * Plus, the pictures aren't exactly accurate to scale. ~SnapperTo 18:03, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * @Kasan: The placement looks good! :)
 * @Snapper: Because it makes sense to showcase a picture of a TB with their most recent host, especially as it's mentioned in the background of every TB article. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 18:04, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * Lots of Background sections mention characters with different characters. Doesn't mean they need a dedicated image. It would be one thing if the manga depictions had some minor detail the anime got wrong, but this seems like displaying the images for the sake of displaying the images. ~SnapperTo 18:23, July 31, 2014 (UTC)


 * I think, with it being the tailed beasts, and that we have such good images to show it, that it makes a lot of sense to have them there. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 20:40, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

speech trivia
As proven by latest chapter, they clearly speak words, since not only do they move mouths but also everyone could hear them. In the anime tho, they speak through telepathy instead or so, that's what I suppose the trivia is trying to say, unless there's an inconsistency in the manga itself, not just manga and anime--Elveonora (talk) 16:19, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying they don't speak words. What I meant was how they speak is inconsistent. This is only in the anime. They speak normally like any other character in the manga. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 17:05, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Genders 2
This discussion should not have been stopped short last time. I think what elveo was saying is correct and there genders should be added. Munchvtec (talk) 17:10, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think we should proceed when clear evidence is there, but yeah... :-I--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * And I also agree. We've got beasts with obvious sexual dimorphism, which is the equivalent of Kishi displaying their genitalia for all to see. Doubt it'll get through, but there it is. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:38, September 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * If no one gives a good enough reason why we should be ignorant in span of 3 days, I will proceed to make the changes--Elveonora (talk) 09:37, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

sounds good, i just thought id bring it up again. Munchvtec (talk) 13:28, September 24, 2014 (UTC)