User talk:GoDai

Hello GoDai, greetings and welcome to the Narutopedia! Thanks for your edit to the User talk:Omnibender/Elemental recomposition table page.

We do hope that you will stay for a long time. Enjoy your stay as we work to become the best Naruto info site out there. BELIEVE IT!

If you're looking for something to do why not look over the Forums or more specifically Narutopedia Collaboration for a list of projects we're working on. And the Community portal has a lot of recent discussions and places to go listed on it.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- ShounenSuki (Talk) 03:13, 2010 March 5

Theory page
What you want to do is this, a subpage. Just transfer the content from your page to that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:22, March 6, 2010 (UTC) Ah, so frustrating. --GoDai (talk) 02:02, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * No real need to move thinks there, you still should have a main user page, the way you did it before had made it a page for a completely different user. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:45, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Inheritors of the Will of Fire
Yup, it's out, but it's a raw. It does have Japanese subtitles those. If you plan on seeing it, avoid seeing one hosted at MegaVideo, they have time limits. Do you want a link? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:15, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here. Use the second version, the first one with "mirror" on it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:32, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you haven't watched it yet, the subbed version is already out, there's a link to it over at Jacce's talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't oppose having pages for those characters. I'd bring up the subject on the movie's talk page first. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:46, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Dark release
Man, the page says "...Hiruko is able to detect their natural elemental affinity, and then manipulate the victim's chakra and perform ninjutsu of that element." It's exactly what he did there! So it's not wrong... --Rubião April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * So would be a bad idea make a new page for this jutsu??? By the way, that special seal was the same used in the Storm Release: Demon Dragon Storm. Some people say it's the bird seal, but it's not...--Rubião April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Man, I spent all day today (sounded strange I know XD) watching episodes with jutsu using bird seals!!! Omnibender said that was the bird seal, but I disagree because Hiruko's middle and ring fingers were together (and it was the same seal Shikamaru was using, I noticed it)! In all bird seals I saw there weren't any fingers together (just the index and little, but they are up). I think there should be a page about this jutsu, but I want to make the bird thing clear first. Thanks for listening me :D --Rubião April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there are a lot of things to be seen and fixed, but unfortunately I'm with some problems in my computer, so I will hardly edit here for a while... I will discuss these problems with you calmly later, ok? Thanks --Rubião May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Elements and Recomposition
It's an interesting theory, a different perspective, definitely something I've never seen anywhere or thought myself. You could be onto something. Kishimoto never mentioned any elemental advantages on advanced elements like he did with the basic ones, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. They can be different. I liked your theory. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:08, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Cardcaptors
Not really sure. I wouldn't say it just yet because in Cardcaptors, the anime and the manga are very different. Just so you get an idea, in the manga, there were about 19 cards. In the anime, there were 52. I don't remember specifics, so I can't tell if that happened just in the manga or if it was something the anime expanded on. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:59, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Amaterasu
I believe it was mentioned in Amaterasu's entry in the second databook, you'll have to look for a scanlation I think. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

Re:5
I think Kakashi used those words because at that point, he wasn't explaining the nature manipulation of Yin and Yang, which going by what was implied is the source of many non-elemental ninjutsu, despite still being the result of a nature manipulation, just not an elemental one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Third Kazekage had a kekkei genkai, maybe it's an advanced nature, maybe it's not. Deidara's technique's were Earth Release, the exploding stuff probably is a consequence of the Iwagakure Kinjutsu, if other people kneaded chakra in other materials, I think they'd explode as well, Earth Release or not. Nagato's techniques are just techniques that use chakra, no implied nature manipulation on them. They're more like "divine force", so to speak. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:33, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Elements
Nope. The only activity around it was a couple anons trying to add the combos which make up the elements with no known components in the nature transformation article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * The missing lines are merely bugs, the arrows can be added easily. —ShounenSuki (talk 09:54, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Yin and Yang
We've suspected some of that for a while now. After Yamato and Kakashi said that Shadow Imitation Technique uses Yin and Yang manipulation, people linked it back to Tayuya, who Shikamaru said used similar chakra to him for her Demonic Haunts Disorder. They are made of chakra with imbalanced ratios of spiritual and physical energy, so when they attack, they eat the target's physical energy to stabilize themselves. The only other idea that could be suggested based on canon stuff is that Yin and Yang are related to power and will, as a similar graphic was shown when Fukasaku and Gerotora were explaining how Naruto had to take over the Nine-Tails' power after separating it from its mind. Wouldn't really used the Avatar and Firebender examples since those are completely different series. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:19, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Elements Diagram
You mean something like this? —ShounenSuki (talk 16:06, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say bring it up on Talk:Nature Transformation for discussion. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:11, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I uploaded a fixed version with added arrows. Hope you like it. —ShounenSuki (talk 14:32, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Sand
The idea has been suggested before, but since everything about it is already available at Gaara's page, such an article was never created. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Elements in anime
Most of those are added because either it's rather obvious they're from a certain element. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Yin and Yang
I wouldn't say so. Based on the descriptions given as to what Yin Release and Yang Release are (they are Releases, ShounenSuki spoiler translations available in foruns), I would say yes and no. From what I understand, things like, genjutsu for example, are a form of Yin Release, because it deals with the mind and imagination. Medical ninjutsu, on the other hand, would be Yang Release, because of life and vitality. Sakura was a genjutsu type and is a medic nin, C is both a genjutsu user and a medic nin. I would understand Yin Release and Yang Release as particular forms of a basic nature. Now, Sage of the Six Paths could use Yin-Yang Release to basically create stuff out of nowhere, since he used it to create the Tailed Beasts out of the Ten Tails' chakra. I could consider Yin-Yang Release as an advanced nature, since it would be a merger of Yin Release and Yang Release, but that would mean a kekkei genkai is needed to use it. What I'm in doubt, is whether Yin-Yang Release is something only Rinnegan can use, or if Sage of the Six Paths was simply so badass to the point he did what he did. In an unrelated note, look forward for a revamp of my theory page in light of the recent chapter. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:43, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not just Sakura, everyone. Izanagi in particular requires Senju and Uchiha blood, but we don't know what other lesser forms of Yin-Yang Release might exist. Maybe people are capable of merging them without kekkei genkai, this chapter only revealed a basis of what that is, but it also raises new questions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:50, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a scan. From what I understand, spoilers are released in an IRC channel somewhere in the Internet, most of the times by someone who goes by Ohana, but occasionally by someone called nja as well. After those are released, either all at once or by parts, people translate it. What I saw was a translation of those texts from Japanese to English, by ShounenSuki. I don't even question it being his because the style of the translation is clearly his. Just search any naruto forums for a 510 spoiler thread, it's very likely it'll be there. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I understood is that because Madara was able to get Hashirama's power, he has the First and Second Paths, Nagato being the Third. My guess is that Madara has to find/become one with/absorb the power of the Six Paths in order to become the new Sage of the Six Paths. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:01, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, that's just my guess. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:07, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * ShounenSuki is waiting for the raws, so he can see the real deal, as well as get accurate translations. They're also released through IRC channels. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:27, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Updates are done. The only changes in store depend on something I asked ShounenSuki about, and something he offered to do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:26, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Seedling Fern
Databook says, so it is. The only true error I ever saw in databooks was when Kishimoto messed up with the physics of magnetism. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Madara and Six Paths
I understand as much as you do now. Madara called himself the "Second of the Six Paths" and Nagato the "Third of the Six Paths", according to ShounenSuki's translations. What that means, I think it has yet to be elucidated. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:21, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Naruto Shippūden 3: Inheritors of the Will of Fire
I would bring the matter up in the movie's talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:28, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Storm Release
No idea who had the idea first, but the first one to show Storm Release was the movie, it premiered long before Darui was even introduced. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:24, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Wiki contributors
What exactly do you mean? The amount of bad edits doesn't seem to have spiked after the massive Russian vandalism. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:08, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Is Ohana ever wrong?
Everything I ever saw coming from her is reliable. The only stuff I ever saw being wrong is when she sometimes assumes or is in doubt of something, but she usually points these things out. Sometimes, other people also post rather accurate spoilers, but they're not as good as hers. The one thing I ever saw coming from Ohana I didn't believe was in this week's chapter spoiler, there was a mention of Deidara having something that the spoilers called Bakuton. It had matching kanji. Other than that, wrong stuff from Ohana is usually when translators do a poor job. Again, this week, a translator listed Dust Release's Jinton as Chiriton, and called it Clay Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only thing I saw was the spoiler in Japanese, with kanji and all, but so far no raw. ShounenSuki usually gets those when they come out in IRC channels. I "Ctrl+F"ed the -ton kanji in the spoiler, and indeed a Bakuton in the spoiler, but since that's not the raw, I don't believe it just yet, it would be a major retcon of Deidara's abilities. Both kanji for Lava are listed in the Lava Release page, and according to ShounenSuki, the difference between one and the other is virtually null, since it's just another way to write it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:20, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's wait for the raw, and hope there are clarifications. As far as kanji meanings and all go, I go by what ShounenSuki says, so you should ask him. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:44, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Re: The Lava vs. Dissolving again...
I understand what you're coming from. Right now, I would like to wait for the raw, before saying anything definite on the matter. I would like to say that I have also thought about the two different kanji signifying two subtly different techniques. However, the problem is that Kishimoto-sensei has simply never been that consistent with the kanji. He used both to refer to Rōshi's Yōton, for instance, and has only used the 溶 in the word for lava.

Now, looking at the usage of the two kanji, there is indeed a noticeable difference. 熔 is generally used in words related to metal and other hard substances, whereas 溶 is more used in words related to liquids. Unfortunately, both can also be used vice versa, and are practically synonyms. Both can be used to write lava, both can be used to write smelting, both can be used to write dissolve, fuse, melt.

At this moment, I think it is safest to assume the two Yōton are the same and only make a note of the different kanji and their possible implications. The techniques we've seen look enough alike to be considered the same element and I really don't see how another Yōton could fit in with the already known elements.

Until we can get some more information, we'll just have to live with this uncertainty and hope Kishimoto-sensei won't introduce the third synonymous kanji 鎔. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:28, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I kind of hope he's making this distinction. It would make it deeper and more interesting in my opinion. However, even if Kishimoto-sensei is trying to make this distinction, I do believe the two Yōton are still fundamentally the same element. Both creating a corrosive, lava-like substance formed from mixing Earth and Fire chakra. Their origins might be different, though, with Iwa's Yōton stemming from the Four-Tails and Kiri's Yōton being a natural kekkei genkai.
 * To answer your question about the raw: it really differs. I use multiple websites and IRC channels and there isn't a single one that is consistently the first. Don't worry, though. I am also looking forward to this chapter's raw for the exact same reasons ^^ —ShounenSuki (talk 19:34, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally can't imagine the Ten-Tails giving the Sage of the Six Paths his Rinnegan. It was said that the Rinnegan allowed the Sage to create ninjutsu, which he already must have done before sealing the Ten-Tails inside of him. Also, I don't believe the Ten-Tails' eye is supposed to be a "Sharinnegan," but rather a triple Sharingan. If anything, I believe the Sage's Rinnegan and the Ten-Tails' TriSharingan merged together to form the six-tomoe Sharinnegan shown on page eleven of chapter 510.
 * I do think it is possible for jinchūriki to inherit their tailed-beasts' powers in a way and in turn to pass it on to their children. Gaara, Naruto, and now Kurotsuchi seem to imply this.
 * Kurotsuchi, by the way, was only said to be "the Tsuchikage's granddaughter" in the spoilers. This heavily implies she is Ōnoki's granddaughter, despite the different kekkei genkai. Perhaps she simply inherited her kekkei genkai from a different grandparent.
 * As for the Bakuton, I can say only this: Don't put too much trust in the spoilers. More often than not, they are heavily flawed and misguiding. Wait for the raw before falling into despair. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:05, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The raw is out and all our worst expectations have come true. Kurotsuchi does use 熔 and Deidara does mention . —ShounenSuki (talk 14:34, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Explosion
The Release page will not be created right now. Even ShounenSuki doesn't think it's a real Release, even though he made an icon for it already. We won't be making the page now because one, Deidara's techniques were already called Earth Release, two, it would be a major retcon, so we would need confirmation for that. Right now, Explosion Release is noted in the trivia section of relevant articles, those being Deidara, Nature transformation and Exploding Clay. If this is indeed a nature, then yes, this was a wrench thrown in a finely tuned engine. Though I already have some back-ups, one involving Earth Release and Yin/Yang/Yin-Yang, which I prefer since it's the one that'll require less pruning of my current theory, and the other would involve a major overhaul, since there's a slight change, in my opinion, that Explosion could be the first example of a combination of elements which are already used, meaning the ratio of each element used to make a blend does affect the result. In this case, it would be an Earth-dominant Earth and Fire mix. If this does turn out to be just Deidara being boastful, there is also the possibility that Blaze Release was Sasuke being boastful, or at least vain and proud enough. The current discussion is at Talk:Deidara. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:31, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Re: More Elements Discussion
Not Yin and Yang separate, I don't think it would constitute a kekkei genkai, but I'm not sure for them together. Like you pointed out, there is evidence suggesting it's a kekkei genkai. I'm not sure how Yin or Yang affinity would work, if it even exists. I considered putting the Supreme Ultimate, but I'm a bit lazy lately, so that hasn't made the table yet, it probably will someday. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:42, October 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually he can use more the one kanji, and he has in Yin-Yang Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:07, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Dust definition
When 塵 is used on its own, it has a number of related meanings, depending on context and pronunciation. When pronounced as "chiri" it refers to, well, dust; Tiny particles of dirt. When pronounced as "gomi" it refers to rubbish, garbage; something without any utility value. When pronounced as "jin" it refers to impurity, defilement, which in a Buddhist context refers to the world we live in and our daily affairs. With this pronunciation it also becomes a number, referring to numbers in the 10−9 range. Basically, it refers to dust and dirt, especially very fine kinds.

Given the effects of this element, I would say Earth + Wind seems most likely, as Dust manipulates matter ("Earth") on a molecular level and cuts it apart (Wind). However, I could see Earth + Lightning work as well, as the bonds between the molecules could be described as a kind of electricity. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:09, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Icons
Not to my knowledge. The icons are pretty, but they aren't terribly illustrative. ~SnapperTo 05:17, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Re: 遁?
The basic meaning of 遁 is indeed 'escape,' 'flee'. It is not a very common kanji.

The reason it is used in the names of the elements is not because of its meaning, though. The elements are named after actual techniques used by real-life shinobi in times long gone. For example, katon was a technique that involved using fire or smoke to hide oneself or to cover up one's escape. The best translation would be fire escape: to escape by means of fire.

However, the Naruto version is quite different, so it is generally translated as Fire Release, using a somewhat loose interpretation of the meaning of the kanji.

As for your second question, here are my translations of the Yōton sections:


 * 熔遁（ようとん）:熔遁とは火遁と土遁の性質変化を同時に発生させて行うもの. 四尾の人柱力老柴が四尾の力を借りて会得した. 本編中では未登場.
 * Yōton (fire radical): Yōton is what is created by the simultaneous use of the Katon and Doton nature transformations. The jinchūriki of the Four-Tails, Rōshi, was able to use this by borrowing the Four-Tails' power. It has not yet appeared in the actual story.


 * 溶遁（ようとん）:四尾の人柱力のものとは漢字の表記が違う.
 * 溶遁・溶怪の術（ようとん・ようかいのじゅつ）:【水影】体内のチャクラを粘性の高い強酸に変換し、口から吹きだす. 反対に、それを固めることもできる.
 * Yōton (water radical): Written with different kanji than the Four-Tails' Yōton.
 * Lava Release: Melting Apparition Technique: (Mizukage) Turns the chakra within the body viscous and very strongly acidic, and then emits it through the mouth. In contrast, it is possible to harden this.

It seems to me that the Japanese Wikipedia editors did take not of the different kanji, but have not yet noted Kurotsuchi's Yōton. The Japanese Wikipedia is always somewhat behind, though, so this isn't really that surprising.

The Japanese are able to treat the two differently without implying they are different, though. A luxury we don't have, seeing how we have to translate them and do not just have a list of elements with short explanations, but actual articles and such. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:21, October 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Style is in no way a correct translation of 遁, but given the context and way of use in the manga, it is acceptable. It is a very loose translation, though, and ignores the historical context completely. If you're going to translate that loosely, you could just as easily use element.


 * As for the film elements... The film was released on 1st August 2009. The chapter that gave us the Storm and Dust Releases was released on 21st September 2009. Even just considering the release dates, it is highly unlikely that the film creators took their ideas from Kishimoto-sensei. Taking into account the fact it takes about a year to create one film, and it becomes even more impossible.


 * The similarly named elements were either the result of a coincidence — which isn't that odd — or of Kishimoto-sensei taking the ideas from the film and changing them to his own need. Either scenario is very much possible. The first because it is quite likely that Kishimoto-sensei planned out the elements a long time ago when he first had the idea and the second because it is a highly common creative process when writing a story.


 * You also have to take into account the fact that the manga is the original work. It is the manga that is important and all the other works, like the anime and films, are considered little more than oversized adverts for it. I doubt Kishimoto-sensei would ruin the surprise value of his own manga by allowing a film to show something first. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:01, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a bit of a shame that the Third Kazekage's Iron Sand isn't an advanced nature, as it would have been a perfect combination of Earth and Lightning.
 * I think it's important not to stick too much to the exact definitions of the elements we have, but to allow for some creative interpretations. After all, it's unlikely we would have come to the conclusion that Water + Wind = Ice or that Earth + Water = Wood in the way we generally think. For Lightning + Wind, perhaps we should look at what they do.
 * Lightning pierces, shocks, and paralyses. Wind pushes, cuts, and blows. If we focus on the paralysing aspect of lightning, perhaps some kind of poisonous air? —ShounenSuki (talk 07:57, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ultimate Ninja Storm 2
Do you have the game by any chance? Someone simply started adding names for techniques from the game, some of which you corrected, however, I don't think the techniques are, at this point, fully translated, since they're usually first added with their English name, and they someone with the game moves it to the actual Japanese name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:16, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Go to the talk page of the guy who added a couple game jutsu, he has provided a youtube video of the game in Japanese as source for the game names. See what you can make out of it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:35, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Shippūden Movie 3 subjects getting into manga
In the pages for Chūkichi and the Unknown Iwa Ninja, there are images of the four characters Hiruko abducts, and that is as close we get to see the Unknown Kumo Ninja and the Unknown Kunoichi we get. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:10, November 12, 2010 (UTC)