Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-31171723-20170129212432/@comment-30168027-20170131171251

Thekillman wrote: Uzumaki1naruto wrote: so since back then naruto was defeated by toneri, how come toneri defeat naruto now with spsm Because he still can't defend against a chakra drain? Toneri doesn't need physical contact to do it, as The Last shows. but naruto in spsm is faster than anything and anyone, so how can toneri absorbs someone's chakra without knowing the place where the person is (i mean naruto can blitz toneri and finish him off faster than toneri can realize he moved)

Thekillman wrote: So yes, Madara was defeated. And he was defeated by Black Zetsu. That BZ could hide his intentions from a rinnegan user just shows his skill, but remember: anything is a ninja tool, nothing is off limits.

naruto too (he did once with obito) can take off from madara the tailed beasts chakra thus letting madara only with gedo statue inside of him, since someone has disturbed the nine tailed beasts chakra inside madara, he can't perform jutsus (if he could, he could kill obito as soon as obito tried to steal chakra from him)