Talk:Steaming Danger Tyranny

Mizukage's face
Should we mention that the face in the steam looks like the mizukage's face since we don't know anything else about the technique?Joshbl56 (talk) 17:52, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is very subjective. To me, the image doesn't resembles the mizukage's face.--Spcmn (talk) 18:14, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Technique's name
I checked the kanji of this technique and saw that the last one, 威, mean power or authority|Jisho.org. Shouldn't it be relevant to the technique's name?--Spcmn (talk) 19:32, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Try looking up both of the final two kanji. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:42, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't this a bit like naming Darui's technique Storm Release: Encouraging Crushing Chain Tormenting Principle? Everyone calls it laser circus.  Jokey boy is what the popular translation calls it, and it's far too ridiculous to not catch on.Kaidou (talk) 22:07, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia
Should we add that even though this is mizukages technique, Ōnoki said that Mū's ancestors was the one to create it?
 * Mangastreams translation is wrong, Onoki only says that Mu couldn't completely deal with the technique. I wouldn't trust Naruhodo's translations.--Deva 27 23:07, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Do you know a place with better, more reliable translations in total where I can read the chapters, Deva?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:23, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

is this water or steam release
cause thats like steam but wait boiling water makes steam so this could be boil release to in was one of the jinurki said to use steam jutsu are guys sure this is water release jutsu cause making steam would require to boil water which needs heat (74.141.196.236 (talk) 01:39, September 22, 2011 (UTC))
 * No such thing as Steam Release for Han, not the same thing as Boil Release, which uses acid. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:41, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Now that we know lava release can create quicklime and rubber, it's entirely possible that one user of boil release makes acid mist and another uses steam.  It's also possible that it's a combination of water and scorch release, or simply pure water.  So it's certainly too early to argue that steam is produced by boil release, but I don't think the "no, it's acid mist" argument flies at all anymore. Kaidou (talk) 02:43, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

boiling water creates steam so it would make sence in boiling water is like acid too when its thrown you it burns you like acid an gives up to 3rd degree burns it's far too early too early too argue the techniques makeup or effects. however considering that the mizukages can turn into that oliy water-like substance and the fact the techniques names is STEAMY danger tyranny i would assume it's steam. also the fule parameters of the boil release kekkei genkai are still unknown as it has only been shown ounce as of yet. it's known that han does not use steam release as kishi did not refer to it as that he said steam based ninjutsu. also it's unknown if he will make a steam release but until it's been stated that either one is related or falls under the steam release it should stay blank. the steam relase debate is the same as bubble release and sand release arguements which have never been stated to be releases and until its stated its pure speculation and is taking up unnecesarry space on this page which could be used for debating more important matters for improving this wiki.98.26.245.197 (talk) 03:04, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

Kishi settled the Bubble jutsu a long time ago. One of Pein's summons uses bubbles and it was classified as a Water element jutsu. Sand is hinted at being a Subset of wind. It could be either that Boil can manipulate steam as well, Steam is Yin + Water, or Steam is a subset of water element. I say wait to the next chapter.Umishiru (talk) 07:07, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

It would be pointless for there to be a Steam Release when there is already a Boil Release; then again, there is a Scorch Release... And anyway, Boil Release dissolves things like an acid and does not boil them away like one would think. We'll just have to see how this turns out Skitts (talk) 19:28, September 22, 2011 (UTC)

I understand your trying to say that Boil and Scorch are similar but they aren't. Boil refers to acid and melting while scorch refers to heat waves of the desert, as such that includes drying and dehydration, they are opposites somewhat.Umishiru (talk) 03:37, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

If you read my post correctly, you'd see that I never said anything about Boil Release and Scorch Release being similar. I said that Kishi creating a Steam Release would seem to be odd or useless as I find his creation of a Scorch Releas to be. Skitts (talk) 18:25, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

I reckon this is going to be like a kekei tota.. a mix of fire, wind and water.. cause remember, water + fire makes a steam like just like in the picture, and it seems like it is contolled by wind.. Also it might have something to do with explosions.. Explosions=Fire
 * The two Tsuchikage are the only ones with kekkei tōta. There is no suggestion that there others capable of that. Why is it necessary to state such obvious things? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:25, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

it is stated that only onoki is the only one who has kekkei tota that is alive.. When they knew Mu is ressurected, Onoki is the only one who knew that Mu uses Kekkei tota too.. I mean in this situation, when the Second Mizukage and Muu's time.. None of the current ninja now knows quite a lot about them.. Only Onoki since he's very old.. Not to mention, he's a student of Muu.. It also seems like he knows quite a lot about the second Mizukage.. and this is probably what Muu is about to say when he was about to get sealed.. Cause he didn't finish what he's about to say.. And remember, Mu successfully killed the second mizukage too.. so he's the only one who know's how to counter this kind of jutsu.. Im thinking the counter for it is what he's about to say. 2.123.24.164 (talk) 20:30, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

They never said anything like "only one alive", just "only one". And Mū could be getting ready to say anything, that he was a clone for example, or that he had set a trap. The correct translation of this chapter shows that the Third Tsuchikage says that the technique the Mizukage used is one not even the Second Tsuchikage knew how to deal with, which implies this is the technique that killed him. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:49, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

They don't really know the second tsuchikage/muu's skills that time until Onoki said it meaning that all they know is only Onoki can do it.. Also, yes, the second tsuchikage is killed, but your aso forgetting that the second mizukage was killed too.. Who knows, maybe the second mizukage was killed first by second tsuchikage before the tsuchikage died. The fact that the second mizukage's knew that he killed Muu as well may mean that they are both left defeated in the battlefield and they can see each other being unable to fight... 2.123.24.164 (talk) 20:56, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not forgetting that they both died, I'm just saying that this might be the technique that killed the Tsuchikage, that doesn't mean he couldn't have used some other technique at the same time to kill the Mizukage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:15, September 23, 2011 (UTC)

Translation
can someone translate that part exactly please (ShounenSuki? ^^): (先代ムウ様も手を焼いたという水影の無限爆破忍術 - sendai muu sama mo te o yaita toiu mizukage no mugen bakuha ninjutsu) ...was it now the technique developed by mū's ancestor's (先代ムウ) or that in the past mū didn't know how to deal with this technique either? :/ Johnny/ジョニー (talk)
 * ShounenSuki's translation is on his talk page.--Deva 27 20:51, September 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * thank you. ShounenSuki has already clarified it. Johnny/ジョニー (talk)

Question
does he blow up into the water vapor to form the clone and then reform himself or does he just partially liquefy himself to form the water for the clone? and why does the clone have to cool down.71.71.63.85 (talk) 14:08, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * He doesn't do anything to himself (Mizukage lacks the ability to liquify himself), it's a special clone he makes. It's sort of like making a normal water clone, except out of two substances instead of one. He cools it down so he can make it explode again.ZeroSD (talk) 14:19, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

also when the clone explodes does it vaporise or does it release the vapor without completely breaking apart.71.71.63.85 (talk) 18:23, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

ice release
i thought this chapter will answer my question but gave me more he made it hail hail is ice does that mean he have ice release inside the clone hot water does mean he have boil release to im confuse does he have to kekei genkei like the 5 mizukage (74.141.196.236 (talk) 14:31, September 28, 2011 (UTC))


 * More than likely he simply has some tricks to affect the temperature of water and they're all Water Release with zero kekkei genkei. ZeroSD (talk) 14:38, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

but to affect the tempeature of water you need heat which in naruto fire release also sence has it been that if do some trick that they can make ice hail in hot water also he had water vapor which comes boiling water heating the clone up now that i think about it he could have boil release i mean its all the there the heating .the water the water vapor i think the  2 mizukage has 2 kekei genkai  i mean if you. could make ice from another way then ice release want be kekei genkai no would it cause. people would be able to make if thats then you might ninja found a way to make scorch release by sence water release users can control the temperature of water this allow them to make ice boil so no i dont think its some trick oof his (74.141.196.236 (talk) 15:32, September 28, 2011 (UTC))
 * The water is blown high into the atmosphere which makes it cool down and turn into hail. Its not ice release.--Deva 27 15:43, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

again if there was another way to make ice through different methods then ice release would not be a kekei genkai it would be a side element for water and the water heated up there was also water vapor which is steam water release users cant make hot water in he turned that clone from steam to hot water (74.141.196.236 (talk) 16:02, September 28, 2011 (UTC))
 * Ice release is when the user uses wind release and water release at the same time. To do that they need a kekkei genkai. Just because something uses ice doesn't mean that it is ice release. The water is heated up because of the oil.--Deva 27 16:06, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

your saying the water heated up because of the oil im pretty sure oil does not heat things up you need heat to heat up water in there was water vapor so that means the water was boiled i think the 2 mizukage got an kekei genkai would not be the first time kishi gave one to someone who was thought not to have deidara for example he has explosion so maybe he  changed his mind in gave em a kekei genkai oh is this oil like from like vegetable oil or is it a form of water release if its a form then its the source of hot water cause to make it you need fire  water + fire = boil he can be from yuki not all yuki are dead only haku mother in him self we dont happen to actual clan or the name until how many chapters later (74.141.196.236 (talk) 16:20, September 28, 2011 (UTC))


 * The way I understand it, the technique works like thus: the outer layer of oil both heats up and cools down very easily. The friction caused by merely moving causes the oil to heat up, which in turn heats up and evaporates the water inside it. This causes the clone to expand and, eventually, explode. Then everything cools down again, reforming the clone, and allowing everything to start all over again. The hail was formed because the water vapour had blown that far up into the atmosphere where it cooled down so much that it naturally formed hail. No Fire or Ice Release needed. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:36, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * so it heats up from friction in oil but how does it keep reforming when explodes its water vapor does mizukage bring it back or does the clone this jutsu is so confusing in he is from hozuki clan oh and did the clone reform its hand to a blade on its left hand yeah on page 4 on manga stream you can the clone have reform its hand to a blade is this the hozuki jutsu that allows them to change their body parts into hard water weapons (74.141.196.236 (talk) 16:45, September 28, 2011 (UTC))


 * I believe the clone reforms thanks to the Hydrification Technique keeping the vapour connected in a way. And yes, he does form his arm into a blade. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

S rank
this jutsu should definite be listed as s rank jutsu its the most powerful clone jutsu of the series  it explodes reforms only to explode again it moves super fast in can shape its body into weapons on page 4 manga stream left hand you can see its reform in to weapon it should be noted this jutsu is very complex (74.141.196.236 (talk) 16:53, September 28, 2011 (UTC))
 * That's nice, but we don't rank techniques ourselves. We wait for Kishimoto-sensei to do that for us. We're kinda lazy that way. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:55, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

No Joke Jokey Boy
Some one please edit this, we've seen it. It is a near contantly exploding, oil and water clone that moves faster than gaara's sand, so pre shippuden lee fast, pretty darn.

Couple of problems with your speculations. First off, you're saying that Gaara's sand is still the same speed as it was in Part 1, which we've already seen isn't true. Secondly, it isn't near constantly exploding. It cools down, moves around for a bit, with the movement-induced friction heating up the oil and then explodes sending water vapour outward violently. Skitts (talk) 17:08, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Plus the second mizukage noted that the sand was getting faster.Umishiru (talk) 18:18, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * More like the clone was getting slower ;) Seelentau 愛議 19:25, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe not the proper place to take this, but just one question for Skitts. From where do you know that Garra's sand is slower now than in part one. Everything i have read, points to either the oposite or no change, i dont remember ever seeing it stated as getting slower. --Cosmikaze (talk) 20:02, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

really the clone was getting slower, because of the gold.

BUT, we should know that the Gaara was controlling only the ground sand, not his own and super infused-chakra sand.

Deidara already have noted that the ground sand is slower than the sand of his gourd. --189.31.172.89 (talk) 20:29, September 28, 2011 (UTC)(Uman)

The temperature of Jokey boy.
It should be noted that the jokey boy clone melted Gaara's golddust down. If you use the real life melting point, that means that the jokey boy clone is over 1000 degrees celsius. However considering Gaara's sand never turned into glass at any stage that means Jokey boy cannot be above roughly 1700 degrees celsius. Btw Gold starts to melt at 1064.18 °C or 1337.33 Kelvin if you want to be exact. Also wouldn't this mean that Jokey boy becomes dangerous to take on physically, due to the fact it is extremely hot.

Should those points be added to the page? 90.197.180.131 (talk) 20:38, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it would be necessary. Most oils combust well below 1000K, so for the clone to ever be able to melt gold using real-world physics, it would have to be made of super-heated burning oil. The thought is nice, but I really don't think real-world physics apply. 212.242.138.121 (talk) 22:01, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we should probably add somewhere that this technique is hot enough to melt gold since kishi does use real world physic sometimes. Plus its interesting trivia. Joshbl56 (talk) 22:07, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

The issue is that Gaara clearly stated that he used Golddust, which he also said melted because of Jokey Boy. Considering all the science Kishi was using in this I do think it's applicable here. Especially as there aren't any plotholes in being above 1000 degrees. It just has to be noted the technique can't be over approximately 1700 degrees or Gaara's sand would have become glass. 90.197.180.131 (talk) 22:20, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

I think "hot enough to melt gold" would suffice. No need to delve too deeply into the chemistry; it'd be as pointless as trying to figure out how cold Gaara's hail-infused sand would have had to have been to cool down the reaction in the clone's body. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  22:42, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

"The Clone is able to reach very high temperatures, as shown by how Gaara's golddust melted once it came into contact with it." Is a line like that roughly what you want? Also could I please ask someone else to edit that in, I'm not too good at editing wiki pages, I'm not sure if this should go under a Trivia heading or in the Jutsu description.90.197.180.131 (talk) 22:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Move back?
Considering what we know about the technique, should we consider moving it back? The technique has aspects of both the pun name and what the actual kanji say. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:11, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd say that the "boy" part is a given but it still might be best to consult ShounenSuki on his opinion, as I believe that he was also considering such a move but decided to await the release of Chapter 557. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:17, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what to make of this, to be honest. It's obvious that the name is a pun, but how to translate it? As Blackstar1 said, the 'boy' part is a given. There's no doubt that word was meant here.
 * However, there's the part. It's also written in katakana, but the lengthened 'o' is written normally and not with an chōon, which means it most likely wasn't meant to be an English word. (No 'jokey' here.) It could simply be meant to imply the normal Japanese word for, but it could just as easily be written in katakana for consistency and not for any intended puns or double meanings.
 * I still believe this name was somehow intended to be a reference to Steamboy — especially given Kishimoto-sensei's well-known love for films — but of course I have no real evidence. This really is a very difficult situation for me >< —ShounenSuki (talk 22:50, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Seeing how 'jōki' can be interpreted as steam, in spite of the different kanji, I personally believe the reference to Steamboy has more than enough reason to warrant its inclusion, even if it's just a trivia note. Unfortunately, it doesn't help much with the technique name though. Blackstar1 (talk) 23:06, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Parent
Should we really consider the Water Clone Technique as a parent? I know the clone is made of water, but is it really a water clone? The chapter makes it clear that it's made from the Mizukage's water/oil mix. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:13, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Aside from being a clone technique that incorporates water in some way, there aren't really any other similarities. The clone neither has limited range nor does it appear to revert back to its component parts when damaged, it also doesn't seem to have one-tenth of the original person's power but rather because of its composition, an ability that is unique to itself. There may be some relation between the two, yet I think classifying it as a parent technique is likely a step too far. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:31, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * From what we could gather, the clone is basically just a membrane of oil filled with free-floating water; in other words, for the most part it is the oil we see moving as a humanoid form, not the water. So I think the difference is considerable enough to consider the jutsu more or less unrelated. Mohrpheus   (Talk)  22:39, September 28, 2011 (UTC)