Talk:Susanoo

Sasuke Anime image
The image i added is just the same as the complet Susanoo. it looks the way it does because it is... fluctuating, i believe that would the best word. Before you just give up on using an aninme image, please try to see if you can get a better screencaptur than me please. Gojita (talk) 13:12, June 2, 2011 (UTC)Gojita


 * It's an inaccurate representation. Compare the teeth and orb thing between the manga and anime versions. I don't think the anime should be used.  ~ Fmakck© (Images 13:37, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is always the other option of adding them both. With proper subtitles I don't think it'll make a difference.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:41, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should add it at all, but if we will the caption idea could work I guess.  ~ Fmakck© (Images 13:50, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

Just add both but in my opinion, only the anime version should be added for two reasons:
 * 1) It clearly shows how Sasuke's Susanoo looks like Itachi's, just with a different color.
 * 2) How do you know it didn't have the sake jar and mirror in the manga? The current picture doesn't really show the jar but there is clearly a mirror on it's left arm, not a bow. So bascially it uses the same weapons as Itachi. Just add the anime one. BlackGhost91 (talk) 17:23, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * The teeth are wrong, there's no "orb"-like thing in it's right hand.
 * Because it was never shown with it? That's not a mirror it's a bow. Itachi's Yata Mirror did not look anything like that. We can't because it's simply an inaccurate depiction of his Susanoo.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:29, June 2, 2011 (UTC)

Then how about you put both to show the difference? BlackGhost91 (talk) 17:42, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I already made that suggestion. Nothing's set in stone yet.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:46, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I agree, how can we explain its differences if we don't put it both? --NejiLoverr26 17:49, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * "as depicted in the anime"--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:55, June 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea we add anime and manga images together all the time. There was a whole discussion about A and Killer Bee's hair color difference which was a big issue for months. Also for the Sword of Totsuka page we added both to display the differences. Also does anybody remember the debate about the Ten-Tailed Beast? These are all fine examples of anime and manga differences which were settled in time. We can use both and say the differences in the captions and in the article paragraphs themselves. That's just my opinion. Banan 14kab  18:27, June 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I like this idea. We should show the differences between them, even if the differences are mentioned in a different section such as trivia. In that case, the anime only version picture can be shown next to its mentioned differences in the trivia section, which would leave the manga version where it belongs. We can even have that part mention checking out the trivia for the differences in the anime version. Diamonddeath (talk) 04:07, June 3, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should keep the Sasuke final Susanoo (manga). Because the anime downright poorly potray Sasuke's version (too much of the wavely glow filter effect) In the manga we get a true sense of Sasuke's darkness through his incarnation of Susanoo where as in the anime it just looks like Itachi's but purple. Camoxide (talk) 22:07, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

HEY!!!!
Don't block it and then remove extra and relevant material. I belive that due to the fact that it has been shown twice now, it is worth noting. --Gojita (talk) 02:24, June 3, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * While it's never moved i suppose, but apparently Itachi's roared so the whole thing did seem more like an animation device, nothing more.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:20, June 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Itachi's both moved and roared during it's fight with Orochimaru and even made faces when it was contricted by the snakes. And seeing Sasuke's doing the same recently, that is why i believe we should mention it! --Gojita (talk) 19:08, June 4, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

Three arms
Did you notice that Itachi's Susanoo has suddenly three arms like Sasuke's? I can't remember it having three arms in the fight between the brothers... Seelentau 愛議 19:19, August 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hm, I thought it always had three arms. An extra one always held the Sake jar, didn't it? --GoDai (talk) 19:23, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Its always had three arms, the third arm holds the Totsuka sword.--Deva 27 19:24, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're both right, but I never considered that an arm.. looks more like an additional hand to me, but meh, nevermind. Seelentau 愛議 20:01, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Something that I think was changed is the finger count. I don't remember Itachi's Susanoo having six fingers in each hand. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:03, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Picture change
I was wondering if it would be a good idea to change the current pic of Itachi's incomplete Susanoo to the most recent one on chapter 551. I believe that the manga pic from 551 show's Itachi's Susanoo in a much more clear way...the current one barely shows the head and arms don't even appear. Any opinions/objections? Darksusanoo (talk) 17:10, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It does show it in more detail.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:10, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Add a clearer pic to Itachi's complete Susanoo from 551 then.67.186.100.177 (talk) 05:07, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sasuke Yata Kagami
If you look closely behind the left speechbubble of the manga image of Sasuke's Armored Susanoo, one should be able to see the outline of the Yata Mirror, but currently we write that this was only shown in the anime. With the new shape the same outline can be seen even clearer. Due to this i suggest we change the summary of Sasuke's final Susanoo so that it says something along the line with that it posses a shield that is similar to Itachi's Yata Mirror but it is unknown if it posses the same abillities.

Do people agree, thoughts anyone????. --Gojita (talk) 13:00, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * Sasuke cannot have the Yata Mirror, it is a tool that Itachi equipped his Susanoo with and as such wouldn't be inherited. His crossbox has always slightly resembled the Yata Mirror in any case.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:14, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * My point is that the change in appearance and shape ressembling the Yata mirrror even more, instead of the current writting that claims he actually have the Yata Mirror in the anime. --Gojita (talk) 13:25, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * No it does not, look top right and you'll see the arc of the bow.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:22, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't see it. Could you create an image where that arc is highlighted???? But if you are talking about the new image, that can easily just be the flaming form, "flaring up". We can't see the other half, so i hadly see THAT as a proof. --Gojita (talk) 16:30, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * Yes it flares upwards not down. Like I said, the crossbow has often looked like the Yata Mirror but it's higly unlikely that Sasuke has it.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:36, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I am also merely claiming that it no longer appears to have a crossbow in it's armored form but merely a shield that looks more like the Yata Mirror than in its complete form and that it should be noted in the both the manga and anime description instead of the anime section claiming that he has both treassures. I have never claimed that he posses the Yata Mirror and i don't intend to do that, at least not until it is shown that the shield posses the same properties. But let's put this to a hold. Let the article be as it is and wait until we see this form from a different angle, shall we not? :-D --Gojita (talk) 16:46, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * But that's the problem, the bow has always looked like the Yata Mirror from certain angles, it didn't change to resemble it even more in my opinion. If we're going to do anything it would be to stay off the topic and not compare it to the mirror at all especially with a dust cloud covering ¾ of the thing because to me, it still looks like the same old crossbow.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:54, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * First of all please don't go changing so much when there is an ongoing discussion about the apperance. I feel it is rude to me as an editor.


 * Secondly. Sasuke is now using the "blade" to stabe, not shoot, something he never did when the crossbow was clearly viewed, so we cannot even claim yet that it still wields and arrow and a crossbow, but actually a sword. and yes i know that there is the thing about angle and all, but that does not mean that that little flare is the bow on top of the shield. And about Itachi's arm beeing similar. The purpose of dividing the article into the two version was because of the major differences and since the "scally" arm was not seen in the first version i believe that is far worth mentioning.


 * Thirdly. The shape of the crossbow does change in the armored form. One can clearly see that the angle flames that connected the strings is no longer there and the shape is far more "flamy" thus it is worth mentioning that the shape becomes more similar when developing into the armored forms. --Gojita (talk) 17:56, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita


 * 1) I suppose I should apologise for that, even though I swore this was a discussion on Sasuke wielding the Yata Mirror. In any case I didn't see the edits to Sasuke et al. until I was done here.
 * 2) You have no substantial proof that Sasuke is wielding a blade as opposed to what we already know (that it wields a crossbow; the arc of which I showed you, and something that looks exactly like the arrows he wielded before.)
 * 3) Like I said before with the exception of colour of the arrow and orb, they all look the same they did before.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:06, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I suppose I also need to point out that Sasuke's Susanoo isn't "scaly" Itachi's had the same thing when forming.--Cerez365™ 18:11, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * One proof i have is that we have never seen the full crossbow since it gained its armor and after Zetzu was stabbed we have neither seen an arrow tip that was clearly visible during his fight with Danzo. And Indeed Itachi's armored version had that, but we never saw it on Sasuke's first version, therefore.--Gojita (talk) 18:15, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

Sasuke manifested the armoured Susanoo for about a second before it disappeared? Did you see the tip of a sword? If you had just read over his fight against Danzō you'd see where the arrow impaled him and what i'm talking about. Therefore what friend? It's not part of the appearance or an ability and it's not scales, it's just something that happens when the thing is taking form.--Cerez365™ 18:22, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I believe that second or so combined with the current appearance is enough. Also the scally part could actually be better explained. I am refering to the fact that skin seems to peel of. Note the hand that holds the orb in both forms. In the first the hand and fingers apepar normal but in the second version one can clearly see the skin peel of both the arm and the fingers and Itachi's version did not have peel on its fingers. and what do mean about where it impales him??? a thing that size would impale anybody in about the same place no matter if you stab or shoot at them. COULD WE GET SOME INPUT FROM SOME MORE PEOPLE!? --Gojita (talk) 18:27, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita


 * I would like to suggest a compromise revolving around the fact that we only have one image of each of the final forms. I would like to keep the note that the crossbows shape change and then write something along the lines with:


 * It's crossbow seems to have turned into a regular shield ressembling the Yata Mirror even more than before and in its first appearance Sasuke used the now pitch black arrow as a meele weapon


 * Or something along those lines, at least until we can get a better view of it and what it can do. Can we agree on that???? --Gojita (talk) 18:44, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

Ok like Cerez said:

1. You can clearly see the string/arc thing on the bow in the top right of the picture. It looks like the same bow, just obviously different in appearance. Also the bow did always look like the mirror at times... So its not a sword and shield, it is the bow and arrows, just modified. 2. Not matter the angle, the mouth area has always been fixed to one spot (i.e. Itachi's and Sasuke's Mangekyo version: to the right side, Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyo version: to the left) I highly doubt it is a mistake as we never seen any type of Susanoo move its mouth area to another side before. 3. Judging by your caps, there is no reason to be angry. 4. Ablaze and incinerated can be the same thing. 5. Susanoo has used the arrow as a melee weapon once before. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 19:30, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I just speed read through things, so forgive me if I've missed something. From what I could understand of this chapter, and what I understand about Sasuke's Susanoo, my opinion is as follows:
 * Prior to EMS, Sasuke's Susanoo had a sword of sorts in an incomplete form, he used it to cut through the pillars holding the ceiling at the Kage Summit. In his complete, non-armoured Susanno, he had a shield-looking crossbow, which also acted as a shield once against Danzō (if I'm not mistaken), and the orb in his right hand, which then also looked like Amaterasu, but didn't seem to be Amaterasu, generated arrows, which didn't seem to be Amaterasu either.
 * After EMS, shield seems to remain the same for me, maybe bigger, but still with the same functions. The orb is still black, but considering what we saw him do to Zetsu, I'd say he can use the orb to both make arrows, since it still has the bow, and an Amaterasu sword, kinda like Amaterasu meets Chidori Sharp Spear. The sword is definitely darker, and it appears to have Amaterasu flickering from it in some points. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:29, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Referring to the arrow/sword that Sasuke's Susanoo is using in Chapter 553. Looks like it's made up entirely of Amaterasu's flames t'me, not just covering anything. The orb that was held by the Yamabushi-form of Sasuke's Susanoo also seemed to be comprised of Amaterasu's flames.

But the arrows it produced weren't. The tree Danzō created to alter the arrow's path didn't burn. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:07, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

That was before the appearance of the orb, from which the arrows are created, changed to share the distinct appearance of Amaterasu's flames though. SaiST (talk) 07:59, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

the form of it
i think whether it's a bow or a sword, sasuke is able to transform it to fit into proper situation. like he did on kage summit using the sword(or maybe an arrow that being swung). in killing zetsu's clone case he's using the sword to stab him because in such place u can't throw it using crossbow. and i also think that now the crossbow is bound to be a shield like yata mirror. though we can't be sure if it's really yata mirror or shielded crossbow. one interesting thing that i notice is unlike his brother that seal away his enemies using totsuka, sasuke's hatred seems influenced his susano'o to just 'destroy' his enemies using sword of amaterasu. also notice that instead of sake jar, sasuke's susano'o third hand on the final n EMS ver. is holding amaterasu-coated orb or perhaps the orb of amaterasu itself. it produces the amaterasu sword for close-mid range, and bow for long range battle. sorry for my bad english peace! ^^ Feliciaxx (talk) 17:12, October 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * We'll find out exactly what it is and its capabilities/ form in time. The tools that Itachi equipped his Susanoo with aren't the same as the one's Sasuke's came with- there's no need to compare the two.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:22, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

Madara's Susanoo
Is it to early to try and say that Madara's Susanoo looks kind of like an Oni? Joshbl56 (talk) 04:19, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

i think it's more like it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asura_%28Buddhism%29?
 * Ah, ok. I was thinking that since it has the elongated canines and the horn that it looked similar to what an Oni looks like. Joshbl56 (talk) 13:14, October 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * yeah i also agree about that. but is there any Oni with 4 hand and double face? to think that asura mentioned above is a symbol of anti-God in buddhism, maybe kishimoto use it to describe the Oni itself. since Oni also a symbol of bad things, right? Faieezzz (talk) 20:11, October 21, 2011

Two Questions in One
First, should it be mentioned that Madara is the only one of the three (that we've seen so far) that has been pulled out of his Susanoo?

Also, why doesn't Susanoo have a tools section? He does use the Sword of Totsuka, Yata Mirror and the bow. Joshbl56 (talk) 00:14, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Susanoo is not a character; it's a jutsu, so it doesn't have a tools section. Think of the weapons more like extensions that come with the jutsu.--Endomarru (talk) 03:11, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * In response to the first part of your question, I don't think that's necessary. Gaara could have probably done the same thing to Itachi and Sasuke as well in they were in the same situation.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:16, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

Size
The wiki currently says that the size of Susanoo can be changed. Are there any examples of this?--Endomarru (talk) 03:10, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just the fact that the Susanoo itself is much bigger than what the ribcage appears to be when it appears is an indicative of that, but I think that we've seen Sasuke using it from different distances, and going by his size inside Susanoo, it's clear that it would change sizes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Uhm I searched for the whole size altering thing and the only thing that came close what during Sasuke vs. Danzo... I made an attempt to explain what it meant really but it's kinda difficult to put in layman's terms but I ended up going into a complex explanation about the user choosing how many thoracic vertebrae they want there and such.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:30, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

Madara's Complete Susanoo?
Can anyone please add a picture of Madara's Susanoo showing it's complete form in all its entirely? --BlackGhost91 (talk) 05:27, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * We can't, because we have yet to see Madara's complete Susanoo. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, October 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * We have actually, when it first appears it wasn't finished forming, in later panels there is "skin" covering its entire body. We just can't get a good image of it.--Deva 27 21:08, October 21, 2011 (UTC)

rinnegan case
should we add rinnegan for its dojutsu ??? because madara's susanoo actived when he use rinnean

No. Madara activated Susanoo when he first activated his Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. Unless the next chapter comes along telling us that it is, it isn't. Also, sign your posts with four tildes ~. Skitts (talk) 06:42, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

Images
I would like to suggest some other options when it comes to some of the images we use.


 * First is Sasuke's Ribcage. I have theese two.
 * The other is Itachi's complete Susanoo. i can of course easily crope it, though it would prefere we go back to the image with the shield since the current one barely shows anything but the top of the head the "hair". What do people think? --Gojita (talk) 19:59, October 24, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * I think images in the article now are fine. In the image you suggested for Itachi's Susanoo we can only see its head. I prefer the manga image since its entire body can be seen.--Deva 27 20:04, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Am i in the need of stronger glasses or is it no just the head and arms??? and what do you think about the Sasuke Images i suggested --Gojita (talk) 20:05, October 24, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

All the pictures look cool though for Itachi's you can only see its head. The pictures in the article are good the way they are now.--BlackGhost91 (talk) 20:12, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I like the anime image of Itachi's Susanoo but it's not full-body and since we have a manga shot that does - I agree with Deva27.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:23, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Alsoooo there's nothing wrong with the image of the ribcage that's there now so why change it o.O? It actually shows all of them unlike the ones you've presented.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:41, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

As in way of. they are too thin and the way they are placed around Sasuke does not match any other scene shown in either manga and anime. BTW, sorry about the watermark, i haven't found a video without yet :S --Gojita (talk) 20:53, October 24, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

Susanoo Ribcage Characteristics
The picture trying to show Itachi's isn't a Ribcage version of Susanoo. Its just a screen of Itachi in the process of reforming Susanoo, which has already assumed the skeletal state. We clearly see a difference between that picture, and the ribcages Sasuke and Madara formed. Thus, Itachi doesn't have a picture of just the Susanoo ribcage.--NaruHina fan (talk) 20:48, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The ribcage stage is sometimes formed with an arm(s)(Sasuke first activation) and the head has yet to be formed so it fits fine as illustrating Itachi's ribcage stage. --Gojita (talk) 20:50, October 24, 2011 (UTC)Gojita
 * I disagree, I can quite clearly see the complete spinal column and atop of that, a shape that (without reviewing the episode in question) I presume belongs to Susanoo's bottom jaw. Just because the image is cropped to focus on the ribcage portion, it is still unquestionably a picture of the complete skeletal form and thus, is not what it is claimed to be. Blackstar1 (talk) 20:58, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I at first also thought that he wasn't just using Susanoo's ribcage but that was mostly due to me thinking that someone said Sasuke was the first one to do it. If you read chapter 391 going into 392 you'll see that Susanoo has no face so i'm not too sure any more. Either way would be fine with me I suppose.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:58, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The image has not been cropped... that's the way it was presented both in the manga and anime. Everything else didn't start forming until later.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:03, October 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Look at the clear difference between Sasuke and Madara's rib cages compared to the one featured for Itachi's. You see a clear developmental difference. More bones are seen, both arms, you can see the chin of Susanoo. Its very clearly in the Skeletal Incomplete Stage. Also you have to factor Itachi is rapidly attempting to reform it on extremely low chakra too, so the different stages can't be seen since he has to battle Orochimaru after. Thus, we have zero evidence of a Susanoo ribcage for Itachi in any of the times he has used it.--NaruHina fan (talk) 21:14, October 24, 2011 (UTC)

The volume 58 cover debunks your whole argument. Also Madara's Susanoo debunks your argument too. Think about it.

Itachi's Susanoo
Is confirmed to be a yellow golden color in the manga. Look at the new volume cover to see. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 22:41, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it is made chakra after all. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:10, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which Kishimoto originally intended to be yellow yes?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not just originally. he still draws it as yellow more often than not. Just check Naruto's Kyūbi Chakra Mode. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:27, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I knew it. I had started thinking that I fabricated that info.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:30, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

I think that the colour of chakra differs between users ... Naruto's yellow, but in anime its blue. Mostly like 90% of chakra shown in anime is blue to make it easier ... only a special chakras are coloured differently, like Orochimaru's, Sasuke's CS, Susanoo etc. Dunno the manga, but I always imagined the Raikage's armor to be yellow/golden : (--Elveonora (talk) 11:15, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

I absolutely can't get this mini "edit war" about Itachi's Susanoo colour. Anime team messed up, LIKE MANY TIMES BEFORE. Deal with it, people, what's wrong? To prevent pointless editing, I ask for the support to leave the information about the colour in the anime in Trivia section and delete it from the main section. Also, I propose to delete Anime screenshot and change it with the scan from Volume 58 cover. Faust-RSI (talk) 06:38, November 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * In regards to this days-old proposal I'm against it.

It's also not a matter that the anime team "messed up" it's the order of illustration. They had no idea this time that it was yellow in Kishimoto's mind. I don't think this is a big issue but the way you're presenting it seems to be blowing things out of proportion.--Cerez365™ 12:44, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) We should simply do a "In the manga Itachi Susanoo is yellow (red in the anime)" bit- there's no need to separate them like they're Haraaam. The trivia can also mention that it was coloured inaccurately because it was illustrated in the anime before the manga et al.
 * 2) I also propose that the gallery be left with the image we got from the manga recently along with the reference that points us to the volume article page so we can see the image any way. To me, the image cropped from the volume cover just doesn't look proper.
 * I made compromise, this is no longer an issue for me.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:07, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you want to leave the information about anime colour in the main section of the article so badly, so be it, but I still see no reason for it. As for you second point, I did exactly the same edit of the gallery on the October 28 (of course the quality of image available was lower). But then this stupid edit-war occurred. So I decided to change one picture rather than add one new. But now you came and said "no no no, let's just add one more". That's what I did in the first place, so I'm ok with this.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:20, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Can Someone Add Itachi's Final Susanoo From The Manga?
I think the anime version should be in the trivia section while someone should add the most recent version of Itachi's final Susanoo into the picture gallery. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 14:25, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no colored version. The anime image can stay out of trivia, the only difference is color and that is already noted.--Deva 27 14:54, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

Alive?
Isnt it basically alive ? I mean ... should not it be considered an entity ? --Elveonora (talk) 00:56, November 12, 2011 (UTC)