Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-5085906-20180325121423/@comment-32617252-20180325235435

ohnoki's back hurt. period. he may be the only one i was wrong about in what i mentioned, but his younger self wasnt as strong as u think for example, his old self could handle 5 ems+ wood release madara clones during the war, while his younger self shit his pants and was totally fodderized by one ms madara. see what i mean? i meant his edo form. although the form is actually weaker than one's prime, the edo form has less drawback like being rusty and having other problems like ohnoki's case. itachi is one. his prime would technically be him in his fight against sasuke, but since he was sick and his ms was getting blinder, he never got to achieve, but his edo form got rid of both of those drawbacks, so his edo form>> his alive form, even at its prime. same for hiruzen- his edo form has no chakra lvl and control problems like his alive old self did against orochimaru. he wanst rusty at all while he was an edo. u can totally tell by the fact of how he beat the zetsu clone that possessed yamato, who not even ay and tsunade could beat- both of them are on orochimaru's lvl, btw, so alive hiruzen=orochimaru, edo hiruzen> tsunade and ay. same goes for hanzo's case. he mightve been rusty when he died, but his edo form showed none of that. and for jiraya; his older self beat half of pain (three bodies), while his 30s self along with tsunade and orochi couldnt beat hanzo, whom pain totally, utterly, ultimately destroyed. im not saying that hanzo wasnt rusty either. he was. thats a fact, but he couldnt have been so rusty that he was weaker than choji (the person that came to mind when thinking of how badly pain destroyed him) man. my point is, while hanzo got rusty, jiraya got stronger. and ur word is not the law either, so there is possibility that we're both wrong, and that jiraya was actually gay.