Talk:Byakugan

Origins
Its says that the Sharingan is an offshoot of the Byakugan however it shows that on his death bed the Sage of the Six Paths left the Sage's "Eyes" to his oldest son and the Sage's body to his youngest son. Later the older brother would found the Uchiha Clan and would wield the First Sharingan while the younger brother founded the Senju Clan and its say the Rinnegan laid the groundwork for the Sharingan and Byakugan that mean the Byakugan must be a mutation of the Sharingan.


 * If they're related at all. I don't believe it's ever been stated officially, and it's looking less likely in light of today's revelations. TomServo101 (talk) 20:10, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Three things:
 * Sign your posts;
 * The older brother didn't found the Uchiha clan, his descendants did;
 * It is still possible that the Rinnegan first evolved into the Byakugan and then into the Sharingan.
 * --ShounenSuki (talk 20:44, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * But that's a speculation that takes the Sharingan theory further.--Bleachshinigami (talk) 17:02, May 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Sharingan being derived from the Byakugan is still a canon speculation, that is, an in-universe speculation. As such, we list it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:10, May 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * After Tobi's words about the Uchiha Clan being directly descent from the Sage of Six Paths, and the revelation that the Sharingan can eventually evolve into the Rinnegan, given the proper conditions, how can it still be valid speculation? Canon itself has disproven that speculation, making the theory dead and buried.  The Byakugan has no relation to the Sage's bloodline whatsoever, or the Rinnegan; it's just another Kekkei Genkai that happens to be a Doujutsu, with no relation to the Sharingan or the Rinnegan. User talk:Catalyst75


 * People still believed in-universe, that the Sharingan derived from the Byakugan at some point. Because this happened in the manga, we list it. We know Shukaku isn't the spirit of a corrupted priest, but we still list that people from Suna came to believe that. It's the same thing here. Why are people so stubborn to remove something that is perfectly valid? However wrong the characters may be, this is still something that some of them thought to be true. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:07, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * There are still several ways in which the Sharingan can have its origin in the Byakugan. It could be that the Elder Son's dōjutsu first developed into the Byakugan and only then into the Sharingan; it could be that the wife of the Elder Son —or even the Sage of the Six Paths— was a Byakugan wielder; it could be that some of the Elder Son's descendants had children with a Byakugan wielder, leading to the first Uchiha; or it could be any of a dozen other possibilities. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:10, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

It is hard to believe that the byakugan is related to the rennigan or the sharingan at all. If this is the case, however...as you all know, the Sharingan Ancestor eye technique was possessed by the Sage's son. The same son that eventually produced offsprings that would become the Uchiha Clan. Taking the physical appearance of the Ancestor Eye and Tobi's statement saying that "he inherited his father's eyes," we could say that the rennigan devolved from father to son. This would make the sharigan, itself, the next step.(only by achieving great experience and power over the sharingan and the EMS could you break the genetic barrier and evolve your eyes back into its ancestor, the Rennegan.) If the three eye techniques are related in anyway, then the next logical step in the devolution would be that the Byakugan is the devolution of the sharigan, not the other way around. The difference between the two eye technique's power and the chance of advancing the power supports this arguement.YonbiAzai (talk) 05:34, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

@Omnibender From things that were said ten years ago which have never been brought up again in-story? People are stubborn to have something like a rumor removed because that rumor was out-right proven untrue. Keeping that rumor alive only fuels unwanted speculation and theories about the Byakugan's impossible relations to the Rinnegan and the Sharingan. The whole of the Ninja World likely knows now about the truth behind the Sharingan and Rinnegan's origins, so shouldn't a now dead rumor be removed?
 * I don't think you get it. The Byakugan could easily have been a dojusu that evolved from the Sage's Elder son first, and then those that possessed it branched off, while the others eventually developed the Sharingan. Regardless of whether or not that is the case, it is believed by characters in the series to possibly be true, so that's why it's listed. Skitts (talk) 16:44, February 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, this is much like Shukaku and Matatabi being previously thought to be corrupted spirits. The Sharingan itself was in the beginning of the series implied to read minds or see the future. In both cases, this is not what happens, but it's kept there because it's what the characters thought. All those are properly indicated to be beliefs, not in-universe facts. If people can't use common sense and good judgement, that's beyond our influence. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:52, February 25, 2012 (UTC)

Genjutsu
can the byakugon see through genjutsu?
 * it was stated that the three main dojutsus cannot be fooled by visual genjutsu but it is possible to use other forms of genjutsu on them e.g. auditory genjutsu --Cerez365 (talk) 16:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Ao wields a Byakugan, he said he saw through the (Sharingan) Genjutsu placed on the Third Mizukage. However, the Byakugan article is mute about this ability.
 * The two aren't necessarily related. Ao could have merely been good friends with Yagura and noticed subtle changes to his personality as a result of imperfect Complete Hypnosis. ~SnapperTo 19:46, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ao also saw through the genjutsu placed on Mifune and he didn't know him. And i'm pretty sure that it was already said that the three dojutsus can see through all forms of nin, tai and genjutsu... --Cerez365 (talk) 19:53, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * He didn't see through anything; he got suspicious of why things were going so well for Danzo. With his Byakugan he could see Shisui's components and, knowing Shisui to be rizzle good with genjutsu, figured things out. See Hinata's encounter with Tobi for a clearer example of how Byakugan-users identify genjutsu. She looked for someone performing a genjutsu, not some sort of chakra differentiation on herself or her teammates. ~SnapperTo 20:04, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the three dojutsus introduced so far can't see through ALL forms of ninjutsu. the byakugan can't even differentiate a real body from a kage bunshin, and the byakugan is the most superior out of all dojutsus in terms of insight. Neji Swirl
 * Didn't Ao mention that the Byakugan was able to see through the genjutsu on Yagura? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:46, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm tired of trying to point that out. It was actually said before in the manga but just mentioned in passing. But wasn't "confirmed" until Ao said he saw through the one placed on Yagura--Cerez365 (talk) 03:42, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * But did he see that Yagura was under someone's influence, or did he see someone doing the influencing? Other examples suggest the latter. ~SnapperTo 05:26, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

kirigakure
Kirigakure has a Hyuuga Member? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:03, March 30, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * No, Ao stole the Byakugan from a Hyūga clan member.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 23:07, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I for got about him. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:09, March 30, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Single Byakugan
Hinata using only her right Byakugan, you can see that her left one is inactive, indicated that the veins are not visible. Or should we consider this to be a typo? Yatanogarasu 10:52, April 3 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a discussion on this in Hinata's talkpage.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 17:55, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

Can the byakugan read movements

 * Do you mean like the sharingan? DevilN (talk) 21:48, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, neji read hinata's movements during their fight, he also hit every kunai kidomaru sent at him accurately with his 64 and 128, hinata read genno bird summon's movements for naruto to hit it with a rasengan. I wanted dis to be added 2 d byakugan page. And also its d best in seeing chakra flow
 * If you mean how the sharingan does where you get an actual image of the attack before it happens then no, however, because they have a great field of vision they can effectively anticipate their foes movements.Cerez365 (talk) 22:06, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Cerez365, byakugan can't copy or see the attack before it happens but it's more accurate in seeing chakra flow(I don't know which is better Rinnegan or Byakugan). DevilN (talk) 22:17, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

But the byakugan can effectively read fast movements allowing the user to strike accurately even though it does not give an image before a strike like d sharingan. Like the example i gave above, neji hit every one of kidomaru's kunais with his 64 and 128. If he couldn't read its movements he wouldn't know the right time to hit each kunai. In essence he would just b throwing his hands. And also d hinata and genno's bird thing. Shikamaru said it clearly:"hinata use your byakugan to read its movements"

Predicting movements and identifying Genjutsu
Can d byakugan see fast movements due 2 the influxes or changes in a person's chakra and also fast moving objects as shown during hinata vs neji and neji vs kidomaru respectively. Genjutsu: during d yakumo kurama arc hinata saw through yakumo's uncle's genjutsu. If yes, can this be added to the byakugan page

The Byakugan has near perfect vision regardless of speed unless their movements are completely erased they can see it. As for genjutsu it was already said that they 3 great dojutsus cannot be fooled by visual genjutsu... Cerez365 (talk) 16:56, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, for not signingNeji of the gentle fist (talk) 18:38, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Can byakugan copy techniques?
I think the copy techniques, if a sharingan user is there.Let us say a hyuga and uchiha member are fighting someone like hiruzen and hashirama, and hiruzen does earth style wall and since sharingan can not see through objects, the hyuga member can see through it and see the hand seals,amount of chkra used and do it,since a hyuga cannot use elemental techniques,he can tell the uchiha member the hand seals and amount of chakra used,the uchiha member can now copy the technique through the hyuga member right?if yes then we can add it to the main article.sazae (talk)


 * No. ~SnapperTo 19:30, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

U see sazae, i told u that d hyuuga's byakugan can't copy. That plan won't work.Neji of the gentle fist (talk) 16:24, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Chakra flow
Is it only the sharingan that can see chakra flow. Allowing them to know when someone is in genjutsu due to irregularity of chakra flow. Can't the byakugan see chakra flow and also know this. If yes, it can be added to the main articleNeji of the gentle fist (talk) 16:39, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhm, this isn't a forum for answering your questions unless it pertains to the main article... yes the byakugan can see chakra flow (there might be variations of how between it and the sharingan) so therefore they can see irregularities in chakra --Cerez365 (talk) 18:08, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Oh....yeah.....OK....thanks.Neji of the gentle fist (talk) 20:00, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ao and illusions
"He doesn't see through it. And even then it's about the Byakugan and not the Hyuga" - Snapper2

First off all, sorry about that, that was my fault. Problem with having a bunch of tabs open - I though I was on the byakugan page and meant to edit there. Second, what you say confuses me. Both the manga and Ao's article on this site state that he "saw through" Danzo's sharingan-cast illusion. If anything, does this (Ao's own statement) not provide all the evidence needed to conclude that he (and not necessarily the entire Hyuga clan, since none of them have displayed such an ability) can use the byakugan to see through genjutsu? Or is there something in the translation that suggests otherwise? --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 02:35, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He didn't see through Danzo's illusion, he was able to tell Mifune was under an illusion because he recognized Shisui's chakra.--Deva 27 (talk) 02:47, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * What may I ask is the difference? Isn't identifying and recognizing an illusion via chakra what one would call "seeing through it"? The description is identical to what Obito did in Kakashi Gaiden (different method used; by his own words, Ao saw Shisui's chakra and identified a genjutsu, whereas Obito noticed the disturbance in Rin's chakra to come to that conclusion, but they both used same method of observation - this and the former are the only real insight we're given in how dojutsu interact with genjutsu). And even so, how could you discern anything otherwise, given what Ao (and through extension, Kishi) said? Honestly, to me, it sounded about as clear-cut as it gets. I am confused at the reasoning behind this. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 03:03, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a difference. Obito noticed the difference in Rin's, the target's, chakra. Ao noticed the difference in Danzo's, the caster's, chakra. See Hinata's encounter with Tobi for a clearer example of how Byakugan-users identify genjutsu. She looked for someone performing a genjutsu, not some sort of chakra differentiation on herself or her teammates. Such suggests that the Byakugan cannot identify what is a genjutsu (thus "seeing through it"), but merely whether or not a genjutsu is in use. ~SnapperTo 03:29, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see your point, and I agree with most of that. Someone else brought a point almost exactly like this to my attention months ago, which is why I agree that is has yet to be displayed by any Hyuga (not to mention the fact that no more than two have - however shortly - ever had the spotlight on them). However that can be attributed to the user, not the technique. The case of the Sharingan (as explained by Zetsu during Sasuke v. Itachi) shows that dojutsu are a tool, and it is up to the user to determine how skilled they are with it. Yes, I know it's all the moot point, but remember: the upper limits of the Byakugan have never been shown.


 * Maybe Hinata wasn't skilled enough, maybe she thought her (finding the user) way was better, maybe she simply couldn't do it at all - we really don't know (and given the attention the Byakugan is given in this manga, or lack thereof, we probably won't). But Ao's case is the first and only clearly and plainly stated case where the Byakugan was literally stated as "seeing through" a genjutsu. This is why I attribute this to Ao and his personal prowess as opposed to the Huyga in its entity. With the amount of vague information we have all-in-all, it is difficult to take things at face value and not be skeptical, but there is, as of yet, no basis for disputing Ao's concretely stated ability. We don't have enough information to make an argument (that is manga/databook-based argument) proving otherwise.


 * So what it comes down to is this; The Hyuga have never shown themselves seeing through genjutsu. Ao has proven himself capable of seeing through genjutsu with the Byakugan. Skepticism of past events aside, this proves that - at the very least - the Byakugan is at least minimally capable of seeing through genjutsu. Perhaps Ao's manner of doing so is different, but I don't see how you can come to any other conclusion. --Xepeyon You Speak, I've Spoken 04:38, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I doubt Ao would be have Byakugan capabilities that a Hyuga does not. It's unfortunate that genjutsu are used so rarely, particularly when in the presence of a dojutsu user; Rinnegan's got 1, Byakugan's got 2 (~3), and the Sharingan gives more than it takes. Perhaps we just need to come up with a way of differentiating how/what the Sharingan "sees through" and how/what the Byakugan "sees through". ~SnapperTo 05:52, October 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ao is older and has had his byakugan longer, he has to have combined his byakugan abilities with his own, although they would be irregular he got it during a war, and has seals on his ears to protect itInfamousryan (talk) 18:36, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Only doijutsu in konoha and joint army possesion
Shouldn't we write in trivia that Byakugan is only doijutsu that konoha and joint shinobi army posses due to fact that both rinegan and sharingan curently are in posession of Akatsuki and Kabuto...YamatoTakeru (talk) 12:04, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Konoha has Kakashi's Sharingan.--LeafShinobi (talk) 12:45, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Byakugan Abilities
It's also shown in the anime that the byakugan has an ability of inshight, as in to read the oponent, as when Neji sees that Naruto is totally confident in the fight against him, and when he tells Hinata what she is feeling. Shouldn't this be listed as well?


 * I think that's just Neji himself and has nothing to do with the Byakugan. If it were the Byakugan then everyone with it would a some form of insight. Joshbl56  16:34, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

That's partially true. It's possible to notice one's emotions,thoughts etc. by chakra flow. If he is nervous, chakra flow is faster. When he is calm, its normal. Also Byakugan has an x-ray vision thus he can see his heart beat rate. --Elveonora (talk) 18:05, November 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah but people can read others based on their habits. If I remember correctly (which I usually don't) Neji told her about her feelings by watching her eyes move from the top right to the lower left. As for Naruto, you can tell he was confident by the way he moves. The Byakugan would just reinforce those observations (at least for Hinata, I don't know how confidence affects chakra flow/heart rate). Joshbl56  18:33, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, when you are nervous/scared, heart beat rate is faster. Chakra pathway system is all around the body. Karin can tell by chakra flow if someone is lying for example ... this with Byakugan and a good observation should be easy. But its already mentioned that Byakugan can see more than Sharingan so whats the point of this ? --Elveonora (talk) 19:06, November 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the person who posted the original question just wanted to know if the Byakugan gave the user better insight. As for me, I just wanted to have a nice conversation/argument. Guess we better stop now :P Joshbl56  19:13, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

The answer is yes, Byakugan has the best vision. Neji's skill is both due to Byakugan and him playing a psychologist --Elveonora (talk) 19:38, November 25, 2011 (UTC)

Byakugan and Juuken
Could somebody explain why the Juuken-Jutsu are considered Kekkei Genkai? They're not used with the Byakugan, Juuken is just a fighting style that relies on the Byakugan and the Jutsu are classified Hiden, right? Why do we list them as Kekkei Genkai? Seelentau 愛議 18:52, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Hyūga have [at least] 2 Kekkai Genkai:

I remember ShounenSuki mentioning that a couple of years ago. And since you would need both of the Hyūga Kekkai Genkai to perform this, that makes it's derived fighting style one. Skitts (talk) 19:02, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Byakugan (obviously)
 * The abilitty to expel Chakra from any of their 361 tenketsu
 *  I think somewhere a long time ago in a discussion Shounensuki pointed out that the Hyūga clan was stated to have more than one kekkei genkai. From that I think it was also said that the ability Jūkenpō is also one of those unique abilities of theirs stemming from their ability to release chakra from any part on their body.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:04, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I know about the Hyūga having more than one KG, but isn't the release of chakra through the Tenketsu something every ninja can do? Or how is the Chakra released here? But meh, I just checked the Databooks again and indeed all these Jutsu are labeled as KG. I always thought they were Hiden... weird. Seelentau 愛議 19:36, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, Kakashi mentioned that even most Jonin-level shinobi could release chakra from their hands and feet. The Hyuga's tenketsu related Kekkai Genkai is that they're able to release them from all 361 of theirs. That's how they can use their Kaiten technique. Skitts (talk) 19:50, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Aye it is something they can all do but that's from the tips of their hands and or sole of their feet. The Hyūga are special in that they can release chakra from every single point of their body hence Kaiten.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:53, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Buuut as Skitts said, releasing chakra through Tenketsu is something (almost) everyone can do. That means it can't be a KG. Seelentau 愛議 20:29, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Hyūga can release chakra from ANY tenketsu, which other shinobi cannot do. That is their Kekkai Genkai. To be more clear, during Neji's Chunin exam fight with Hinata, Kakashi explained that even Jonin could only expel chakra from the tenketsu present in their hands and feet, with the Hyūga's other Kekkai Genkai allowing then to do so with any. 'Tis be ho Neji halted Naruto's punch in their fight, by expelling some chakra from some tenketsu in his face. Skitts (talk) 20:47, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * And the Gentle Fist Art One Blow Body technique.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:04, May 19, 2012 (UTC)