Talk:Lava Release

has this been confirmed
i am wondering if this lava release has been confirmed by the databook, mainly because i have not had the chance to look at a english version
 * Apparently third databook confirmed it. Leafninja is using Lava release too, so I assume it's true. Jacce 10:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #14579
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #14579 on 2008-10-21 09:26:11 UTC

''There needs to be a citation because this fact is never stated in the manga. ''

About Hiruzen SArutobi
I think he can use lava release.


 * He can't. Lava Release is an advanced element created by merging Earth Release and Fire Release. Creating an advanced element is only possible with a kekkei genkai, or in this case a Tailed Beast. The Third Hokage had neither.
 * What he did was combine an Earth Release technique with a Fire Release technique in the same way Yamato and Naruto combined Water Release: Tearing Torrent and Wind Release: Rasengan to create the Typhoon Water Vortex Technique. There is no Lava Release involved. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

He can't use Lava release. It was especially made by a tailed beast. It is also a form of elemental recomposition, not only a tailed beast. I haven't seen Hiruzen use wood release either, so that counters this idea.

Name Change
I just read the viz translated version and it said instead of Yoton or Lava it said Corrosion. Should we change it to that? Saimaroimaru (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I found it in the english released manga, lets see manga vol. 40 or 39 I think. Saimaroimaru (talk) 21:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Discussion at Talk:Rōshi. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 22:06 (UTC)

Status
Should it be pointed out that it is the only nature recomposition that doesn't steem from a kekkei genkai? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That depends, do you have any reason to think it isn't considered a kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 16:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not. It's not something that can be inherited, as far as we know. Roshi can use it solely because he's the host of the Four-Tails. It's not like Haku's Ice Release that he inherited from his mother, or the Wood Release which was put in Yamato's genetic code. No idea if this could work like Gaara's sand though, if Roshi had been resurrected after the Four-Tails being extracted, we don't know if he'd keep it, like Gaara kept his sand, though it's likely. Even then, it's not something he inherited from someone else. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 00:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Using the logic they lack the blood, and the lineage to have a bloodline limit, then yes, Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai's. Regardless is regardless, I don't see this as a Kekkei Genkai, and merely see it as a special ability of a demon. Nature Transformation sure, but no kekkei genkai.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So, should it go to the page? We already have a trivia for the lightning nature, about it being the only one not known to be used to create a new nature. We could also mention at water and earth that they're the most used in elemental recompositions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Saying Tailed Beasts lack blood or lineage is rather speculative, in my opinion. I take it you're basing that on the fact they're said to exist out of chakra, but that doesn't mean they don't have blood or organs. Using your logic, Tailed Beasts should be intangible masses of energy, as that is what chakra is. However, the Three-tails teaches us that Tailed Beasts are tangible and Naruto's higher transformations tell us that they have bones and muscles. They likely have blood as well, and possibly the ability to procreate if they could find a suitable mate. However, the lack of a lineage shouldn't really matter. The First Hokage didn't pass his Mokuton on to his descendants, yet the Mokuton is considered a kekkei genkai.
 * There is nothing that suggests we shouldn't consider Yōton a kekkei genkai. Even taking away all other things, it was literally stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a kekkei genkai. That is what the Four-Tails does, ergo he has a kekkei genkai.
 * Rōshi, of course, doesn't have this kekkei genkai (although it could be that he would have kept the Yōton if he had somehow survived the extraction). This doesn't mean the yōton he uses isn't considered a kekkei genkai, though. Kakashi doesn't have a kekkei genkai, but uses the kekkei genkai of someone else, yet his sharingan-related abilities are considered kekkei genkai-related. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * True. I used the logic that they lack blood solely because I haven't seen blood. Anywho. We don't know if it is a Kekkei Genkai, but we do know it is a Advanced Nature Transformation. My way we simply wouldn't add reference to kekkei genkai's to the article simply because we don't know if it's one or not. But thats just me.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It was stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a type of kekkei genkai. If kekkei genkai is by definition mixing chakra natures, then doujutsu would be advanced natures as well. IMO advanced natures and kekkei genkai, while usually related, are by no means the same thing. At the very least, I see no trouble adding something like "it's the only advanced nature known not to stem explicitly from kekkei genkai". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In chapter 316, Kakashi says . In other words, the ability to create an advanced nature like Mokuton or Yōton is called a kekkei genkai. Not all kekkei genkai are advanced natures, of course, but this quote does imply that all advanced natures are kekkei genkai. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And to add to it, a Kekkai Genkai, doesn't necessarly have to be from family lineage...look at the 1st Hokage's Wood Release, and 3 Kazekage's Iron Sand...It wasn't passed down genetically...More like they had the skill and requirments to achieve it...--AlienGamer--Talk-- 03:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that argument for Mokuton, but we can't say Iron Sand can't be passed down, there's no info on whether Sandaime Kazekage had children. I still see no problem in saying Lava Release is the only advanced nature so far not to have been explicitly called a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Tailed Beasts cant have Kekkai Genkai because as far as we no they cant reproduce so it cant be a Bloodline Limit Narutosagemaster (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

But look it at it this way. they always say the jinchuuriki of the four tails can use yoton but they simply could be saying that a jinchuuriki has a certain ability outside its bijuu. they have never significantly stated that the yoton comes the yonbi

They have, it's explicitly said in the third data book. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Its not quite confirmed since it says that by borrowing 4 tails power he learned the lava release. It gives away a number of possiblities like: helping him control it, training him, etc. but never states that he got the lava release from the monkey and let me remind that japanese to english translations are never 100% percent accurate

It's been said that the Yonbi itself spits lava, I believe in the art book in which it was shown its species. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)