Talk:Haku/Haku's Gender - TheUltimate3's Talkpage

Haku page
Stop deleting the talk page. That is in violation of the rules because it is vandalism, and stop pushing your POV on the article page. If you have something to say then say it on the talk page so we can come to an agreement on the issue. --Believe it! 23:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Daniel did not tell you to archive the talk page. I looked on your discussion page and on the talk page. He didn't tell you to do it nor would he. If he wanted it archived then he would have done it himself.

You are right about one thing though. This is a one sided deabte so far, since your side has yet to post a single shred of evidence that Haku was a boy. --Believe it! 23:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

It is YOUR OPINION that Haku corrected Naruto. In reality all she did was claim to be a man. And you know what that proves? It proves that Haku claimed to be a man. That is it. It does not prove that she was a man or a boy. After all, Haku claimed to be a tracker Ninja as well. So are you telling me that Haku was also a tracker ninja? Give it up, you have no proof. --Believe it! 00:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Consensus

"When there are disagreements, they are resolved through polite reasoning, cooperation, and if necessary, negotiation on talk pages, in an attempt to develop and maintain a neutral point of view which consensus can agree upon. If we find that a particular consensus happens often, we write it down as a guideline, to save people the time having to discuss the same principles over and over. In the rare situations where consensus is hard to find, the dispute resolution processes provide several other ways agreed by the community, to involve independent editors and more experienced help in the discussion, and to address the problems which prevent a consensus from arising.

Thus, if you want your POV to rule, then you will need to take this to Dispute Resolution where non-biased Admins will review the facts, in which case you'll lose because you have none. Your best bet is consensus with me that the article should remain gender neutral and possibly have a short reference to the discrepency of what gender Haku was.


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:OR

"Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, nor a forum for promoting one's own point of view; all material must be verifiable Facts must be backed by citations to reliable sources that contain these facts Interpretations and syntheses must be attributed to reliable sources that make these interpretations and syntheses"

You and Daniel are trying to push your POV on the article page. I am trying to keep the article neutral. Wikipedia favors MY efforts. Even if I were trying to post that Haku was a girl on the artice page, I may still be supported by Wikiepdian rules because I have official facts that back me up, where as you two do not. You can quote the manga and Haku, that is true, but what you quote is not proof of your claim. You claim Haku is a male, but what you quote does not back that up. Therefore your claim is Original Research and is not permited to be in the article.


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:POINT

This is a guideline that you should follow. The Haku page was created with no gender references. When I edited it to add more story and correct some mistakes I did not add my POV to the article. I made the page to be neutral. You are the ones who are disrupting Wikipedia to make a point, which is that Haku was a boy. You are the ones trying to change the article to reflect your biased POV, and without discussing it on the talk page no less. You are the ones in violation of the guidelines. --Believe it! 01:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

So the neutral version of the article has been protected. Good. That is exactly what I wanted and what should happen. I look forward to discussing this issue with you on the talk page. Just make sure you post PROOF this time, not opinion based on irrelevant information. --Believe it! 01:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I know what facts are. You don't. You are taking one irrelevant fact and you are claiming that it proves your biased POV to be correct. The fact that Haku claimed to be a man is not proof of anything except that Haku claimed to be a man. It does not mean she was a male. You ignore the fact that she also claimed to be a tracker ninja. You would not like it if someone edited the page to reflect that idea would you? This alone kills your claim. Forget about the fact that Haku's claim can be proved to have been a lie. You have no basis for your idea. You can't argue your case let alone defeat mine. --Believe it! 02:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)