Talk:Mangekyō Sharingan

Speculations
Do you think it is possible that the Mangekyo's abilities are unique with each individual? There is no sign that Kakashi's Mangekyo has the same abilities as Itachi's (or vice-versa). Keep in mind, this is an opinion-based question. --Dubtiger 04:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I remember a note that the Mangekyo abilities that Itachi uses were abilities which were already documented alongside the information about the Mangekyo. Meaning that the abilities he has are ones that had been acquired in the past. So it couldn't be unique to the individual. Kakashi's is most likely different because of his far different circumstances; He's not an Uchiha. The eye is not his, it's only a transplant. It's quite simply a technique that he created on his own because he didn't have direct access to the Uchiha's normal Mangekyo abilities. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 6, 2007 @ 05:21 (UTC)

Kakashi also gained his Mangekyo in (we can reasonably assume) a completely different way. it is probably only called a Mangekyo because it's an altered Sharingan, other than that there are almost no similarities.

Is it possible that Kakashi obtained yo daddy Mangekyo from witnessing Obito (his best friend's) death after he gave him his eye? I've heard this theory and I've been thinking about it a bit... UchihaDescendant 20:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC)UchihaDescendant
 * No, because in that case he would have had the Mangekyo much earlier. It had to have happened during the timeskip. Namikaze Suigetsu 03:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Not true for Kakashi it takes alot of chakra so maby it was only intill Part II he got enough chakra to use it (not for very long though)

Would it be alternativly possible that the different ways to get the mangekyou sharingan give you different powers? look at itatchi. Kill your best friend. Ok, he did that and that is the only "recorded" Way to get the mangekyou. Look at Madara. We dont know how he got his,and also he got them from his brother and they got a combonation mangekyou sharingan. Look at kakashi Hatake. His mangekyou might be the result on the transfer of the sharingan (If you look at Madaras, mangekyou, the bar that Tapers around from the circle to the bar going out from the pupil, it goes thiner until almost nothing, similar to Kakashi's) and the fact that madara is able to (Speculation) Send parts of his body to another dimension at will, it is similar to Kakashis ability.

Another thing is that Sauske's eyes were given to him by killing His brother (Though this can be speculated that it is because itatchi is technically his best friend because without him he would never be the ninja he is today)

Any ideas to that?Kajowwojak 20:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susano'o are the three "real" Mangekyo techniques, while Kakashi's is just special. Madara has those three plus a fourth one which no one knows about, and Sasuke hasn't really used his Mangekyo too much, so it's safe to say that he probably can use the three Mangekyo techniques and he will probably use them during an intense battle like Itachi. So i'm pretty sure that while the appearance is unique, the techniques are the same, except for Kakashi's. 24.189.153.102 (talk) 15:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Y r there 2 sections for the same thing..Speculation, and a bit further down, Mangekyo Speculation...Then again, y's there a section for speculation at all?? AlienGamer | Talk 15:31, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

The mangekyos abilities are not unique with each individual. In my opinion mangekyo sharingan users(only if capable) can use all mangekyo techniques including Kakashis kamui. Its proved that the mangekyo sharingan can use more then just tsukuyomi,amaterasu and susanoo. I believe that the mangekyo sharingan has x number of abilities and kamui is one of them,for example another ability of the mangekyo is to extinguish the flames of amaterasu. The only person who knows all the mangekyo secrets/techniques is Madara. HUNTER* (talk) 22:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Since we have agreed that Mangekyo abilities aren't unique for each user, I think the part in Sasuke and Mangekyo articles that says Itachi gave Sasuke Amaterasu should be removed. Sasuke has Amaterasu in his own Mangekyo anyway - Itachi's was only a one-shot technique to try and dispose of Madara (Itachi-like form of the Mangekyo shown then is evidence enough for me) - Xfing (Talk)

I say we wait for some more info. Maybe the next databook has some answers. Jacce | Talk 11:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it is possible that All seen Mangekyou ailities (Susano'o, Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, Kamui) are part of a special group of doujutsu (eye technique) abilities that anyone with the Mangekyou can learn. Look at the styles of Ninjutsu: A ninja might have a water afffinity, but be able to perform Earth-style Jutsu. It could be the same with the Mangekyou. While one user might be able to access certain techniques, such as Amaterasu for Itachi, it does not necessarily mean he is incapable of learning Kakashi's Kamui (if Itachi were alive) and vice versa. The reason why they don't use the same ailities is possibly partially due to the fact that no one had proper schooling in mastering the Mangekyou, each being left to learn on their own and discovering certain abilities seperately. If Madara has had this long to develop the Mangekyou's abilities, he has more than likely mastered all that could possibly be known about it. All of this is mere theory, of course. {{ Kyouken

Mangekyo Sharingan Three or Four users Itachi?
I think that when Itachi did Sasukein the butt Mangekyo Sharingan and said that it would be three users, Kakashi had not yet developed his Mangekyo. If you remember in episode 32, when Gai supports Kakashi after the fight with Deidara, Kakashi says: "Sorry about this Gai-kun, using that new Sharingan really drains me so...". Jacce 21:16, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Well so far there are quite a lot of mangekyo users. They are: Sasuke, Itachi, Kakashi, Madara and Madara's brother. Naruto1994 01:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)Naruto1994

Dispute: How is it that Madara's involvement with Kyubi
How is it that Madara, who lived from somewhere between 40 to 60 years ago, had any involvement with the Kyubi attacking Hidden Leaf Village 13 something years ago. I mean this is just speculation. I can't believe this is actually written here as fact. -Psypho 19:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Because Jiraiya said the only person who could control the demon fox was Madara. Then Sasuke later confirms that the true potential of the Sharingan was to be able to control said demon fox. And after that, Itachi confirms that Madara was behind the demon fox attacking Konoha. There is no speculation, everything said about Madara's Sharingan is accurate, even the immortal part, with the whole "Invincible Immortal" comment of Itachi. My suggestion to you is to read the manga.--TheUltimate3 21:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Madara's Brother
During Sasuke's battle with Itachi, he says that Madara and his brother were the first ones to obtain the MS, and they show both of them with their MS. Shouldn't we add Madara's brother as a MS user? There was an image of him with an activated MS before Madara plucked out his eyes. 189.4.226.4 21:47, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Orochimaru as Sasuke's Sacrifice
I don't really think this is the case. I think that Itachi is the sacrifice. It was after Sasuke realizes that Itachi was the loving brother he remembered, that his new Mangekyo Sharingan is shown. Also, I'm not sure it is an "Eternal" version. I can't see any of Itachi's mangekyo in it. Eudaemon 13:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC) no it is because itachi never wanted Sasuke to now the 'truth' so when he poked him on the forehead before he died he transferd his mongekyo to him and it would activate and autimaticly use amutesaru when he sar Madaras Mongekyo (or normal) Sharingan so Sasuke didnt need a sacrafice.

Page 2-3 of chapter 401. We see Orochimaru freeing himself, and quickly killed, pulled out of Sasuke's body, and Madara stated "Freedom from the Cursed Seal...and death of someone close to you... The battle would awaken your Mangekyo." From that it is gathered that Orochimaru was Sasuke's sacrifice for his Mangekyo. And thus Sasuke has (Until proven otherwise as far as I can tell) has 2 different Mangekyos, his unique one, and Itachi's Anti-Madara Mangekyo.--TheUltimate3 13:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you wanted all those spelling errors and run on sentences left in there that I fixed. hasen't was put back instead of hasn't, etc. Some of those "sentences" are 3 or more sentences in a row with just commas separating them.

And, back to the topic at hand, Madara says specifically in Chapter 401 that Itachi wanted to die before Sasuke's eyes. Itachi was the sacrifice. Removing Orochimaru's influence was just something he did to keep that influence from further corrupting Sasuke. Eudaemon 15:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

As another point, at no time did Sasuke show Orochimaru the slightest bit of respect. He was there to gain power only. Orochimaru wasn't a brother or father figure to Sasuke. I hardly think he qualifies as someone close to Sasuke. Eudaemon 15:47, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's an idea... perhaps the Mangekyo can be gained by killing someone that one has very strong or intense feelings for, even those like hate, lust, love, etc. That may explain why Kakashi developed his (killing someone he had intense hate for or something to that effect).  On the other hand, it is right to say that Itach is Sasuke's sacrifice (Ch. 401). Peace! --Ikijime Koorimusha 21:17, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Erm, Sasuke hasn't implanted Itachi's eyes into his own. i seem to remember Tobi mentioning that he's got Itachi's eyes in case Sasuke wants them later. 70.138.167.143 23:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sasuke's Mangekyo Sharingan is clearly not Eternal. For one, Itachi specifically mentioned that you must take the eyes of a sibling to obtain it; Itachi being a sacrifice only gave Sasuke a basic Mangekyo Sharingan. Second, Sasuke recently mentioned that his eyesight was blurring, which wouldn't happen if his Sharingan was Eternal.

To the original question, I also think Orochimaru couldn't be the sacrifice because Sasuke never cared about him. The sight of Itachi poking his head like he did when Sasuke loved him was probably enough for Itachi to become Sasuke's "sacrifice." LapisScarab 02:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * how would the mangekyou be tranfered by poking him in the fore head. he pked him there when they were younger and it didnt do anythingPsyko-Savior (talk) 14:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Transcription Seal: Amaterasu. Jacce | Talk 14:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Mangekyo Speculation
How do you know that Madara wants the tailed beasts to bring back his Eternal Mangekyo? It is stated in the article that getting the tailed beasts for getting his eyes back is his ambition.

EDIT: Maybe I'm forgetting what it is said in the manga. T.T He said he wants to regain his power that bacicly means that he wants there power (the demons power) to take over the world u know bacic villan stuff Hokagegogeta 03:00, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe, just maybe, Mangekyou's powers are all Nine-Tail's technique.... just maybe... kind of makes sense though, I mean, Nine-Tail is just as invincible as Rikudou guy, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo covers a lot of Naruto's basic jutsu field, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Kuchiyose.... I don't know...;;;

Mangekyou


 * I've speculated on that possibility for some time. The Sharingan obviously has some hidden ties to the Kyuubi (Nine-Tail), so it's a possibility that the Sharingan originated from the Kyuubi. Possibly a Jinchuuriki with absolute control was able to obtain them from the Kyuubi, and fathered a clan who shared this trait. I faintly recall that the Sharingan was an offshoot of another Doujutsu-based Kekkei Genkai, so perhaps the Kyuubi's chakra tainted the Kekkei Genkai and it mutated into the Sharingan. After all, if any Doujutsu could control the Kyuubi, it would make sense that Hiashi, Neji, or Even Hinata would have the potential to control it. Of course, this is all speculation, and it could be a complete coincidence that the Sharingan can control Kyuubi. {{ Kyouken

Kakashi's Mangekyo
Kakashi only used the Mangekyo after it had been used on him. Isn't it pretty reasonable to assume that he just copied it from Itachi?
 * No it is not. Kekkei Genkai cannot be copied using the Sharingan. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Nov 24, 2008 @ 04:29 (UTC)
 * who's to say that if somone, such as kakashi, gets the sharingon without being born of uchiha blood the cannot copy mangekyo from a uchiha-blooded user of mangekyo.Xx-kimimaro-xX (talk) 13:36, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Izuna/3rd Databook
As far as I know, the 3rd Databook states that Izuna did indeed give his eyes to Madara, and died later in some battle. I think that the lines where it's said that Madara killed him deserve a correction. Besides, plucking one's eyes doesn't kill him automatically. - Xfing

And for logical reasons it said that Izuma was equal to Madara so since Madara was blind anamaticly made Izuna stronger so Izuna had to willingly give it to him.


 * Izuna was a sacrifice to his brother Madara becouse he wanted to win over the battle with the Senju clan but then the Senju clan wanted peace and Izuna sacrifaced himself for nothing.
 * Acording to Madara, he had to sacrifice his friend to get MS, then he sacrificed his brother to take Izuna's MS and make EMS. Jacce | Talk 17:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Question
Does the person who wants MS have to kill their best friend or can they put in a Halleucination state where they see their best friend dying?--Inferuno Ryuu 21:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

If the person knows its a hallucination than no but if the person thinks its real than probably. Vegerot 21:41, 4 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, even if they didn't know it was a hallucination, it wouldn't work. They need to actually kill the person. {{Kyouken
 * Sasuke didn't kill Itachi, and still got a MS. Jacce | Talk 13:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But Sasuke did kill Itachi, didn't he?Xx-kimimaro-xX (talk) 13:40, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A disease killed Itachi. Madara made it quite clear in chapter 401 page 14. Jacce | Talk 13:53, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * does it specify how long he has had this desease or if itachi knew about it?Psyko-Savior (talk) 14:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Itachi knew he was sick, he used several medicines to stay alive just so he could die in front of Sasuke, but it doesn't say for how long he was sick. Jacce | Talk 14:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

That may be. But the strain and exhaustion caused by their battle ultimately caused Itachi to overexert himself and speed up his death. Transitively, Sasuke caused Itachi's death. {{Kyouken

Where is Itachi's Mangekyo?
In the manga when Itachi comes to the village to get Naruto and fights Kakashi it doesn't show his Mongekeyo Sharingan?! Vegerot (talk) 14:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you are talking about part one he had sharingan activated when he fought Jiraiya and when he fought Kakashi.And if your talking about Part 2 he got the genjutsu from his ring that he wears. At least thats what i think

Nope, it wasen't seen, although he used it. The view of it came later. Whant to know the chapter? Jacce | Talk 17:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Something is Wrong With My Picture!
I just uploaded a new Pic but it doesn't show it! This is what it looked like(except ALOT smaller)!



Vegerot (talk) 13:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Images
I replaced the images again. I know they were reverted before, but please allow me to explain. That and I believe free svg images are preferred above fair use images from the manga and anime. At least when showing simple things like the Mangekyō Sharingan shapes. --ShounenSuki (talk 07:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The image of Itachi's Mangekō Sharingan showed it to be far more pointy than it is usually shown. As far as I know, it was only shown like that once, when he used Tsukuyomi on Sasuke.
 * The image of Madara's eternal Mangekyō Sharingan had text over it. There was also no image if his normal Mangekyō Sharingan.
 * The image of Sasuke's Mangekyō Sharingan was of a very low quality and looked quite ugly.
 * The image of Kakashi's Mangekō Sharingan was fine, but I replaced it for consistency's sake. although I must say it looked rather odd. the edge of the iris wasn't even a good circle.


 * The thing though, is they are just so unnecessary, when we have images we can use that are properly rationaled. While the image of Madara's Mangekyo does have text on it, the shape of the Sharingan is still clearly visable (which is why I left Izuna's there because...his was not.) And now for my future outlook: the svgs are nice but can be considered Fanart (technically they are), really I want to avoid anything, and anything that could cause epic problems in the future (ironically this is why I was reluctant from moving the Pain to Nagato, and we saw what happened when I did.)--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:44, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Compromise: The ones you made however don't have to be on the wayside. Everyone knows that red ball + black stuff = Sharingan, so is there a way we can make it so that the all those are used as that Mangekyo icon at teh top of the page for each character? I mean, we have the Itachi one on Itachi's page, Sasuke's one on his page, ect ect?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That should be possible. Still, I stand by the arguments I gave above. At the very least, Itachi's image should be replaced. The one right now simply doesn't show how his Mangekyō Sharingan looks.
 * So far, we've been using svg images for most simple things from the Senju clan symbol to the Cursed Seals. I don't think there's a problem with using them, to be honest. I'm not an expert on copyright and such, though. I only know Dantman prefers svg images with things like this. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In the Itachi thing; Giving the way his Mangekyo keeps changing (large, gets thinner) I assume it's just a focus on what his eye is doing. Like how a pupil gets big or small depending on what you are trying to look at and in how much light. To the clan symbols and cursed seals I could have sworn we had images clan images and marks directly from the manga/anime.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I compared about a dozen images of Itachi's Mangekyō Sharingan from the manga and they all show it as I drew it in the svg image. The pointy one currently shown in the article is only shown once. I couldn't find a second image that looks similar.
 * About the use svg images, most simple images have already been replaced by svg images (a lot done by me). I do believe this is preferred, a lot were tagged with a message asking to replace it with an svg. I could be mistaken though... perhaps we should ask Dantman just to be sure. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

By all means go ahead. If I'm wrong then I am wrong, I just go by what I thought had higher priority.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:44, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * SVG images are indeed preferred for all symbols. For multiple reasons, in fact I normally delete any symbol that isn't uploaded as a free svg:


 * The .svg have better quality. For simple symbols we end up with small graphics of arguably poor quality compared to a SVG that can be created which scales to any size thumbnail with far better quality.
 * Fair use rationales for symbols are faulty. Part of fair use is whether or not the image can be replaced with a free alternative, for anime screenshots and manga pictures since we are documenting the thing normally those cannot be replaced and thus we have part of the fair use case. However for symbols these can be replaced with a custom made freely licensed image, so that part of the fair use rationale is faulty for any symbol we try to use.
 * A lot of time I'm not even sure that the symbols people upload can even be claimed as fair use. Our fair use claims are towards the official media, we cannot claim fair use on anything else. I have a strong feeling that a lot of the symbols that people upload are ones that they find on fansites and decide to upload here. Those are not official media and thus do not fall under the standard copyright which we can claim fair use on.
 * ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 7, 2009 @ 16:47 (UTC)
 * Then I guess it's settled. I'll put the svg images back. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And I'll make sure the other images are in the various articles.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 20:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Kakashi
Is it possible that Obito already had the Mangekyo Sharingan so when he gave it to Kakashi he got it?

No because if he did kakashi would have had it since he got the sharingan so it is probably not that

Well, I was gon'na make a section for this question somewhere, but this'll do. Anyway, Kakashi's Sharingan came from Obito, and Kakashi awakened the Mangekyo in that Sharingan eye, so, wouldn't it also be considered Obito's Mangekyo Sharingan?--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 00:54, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Sharingan (Mangekyo)
I thought that only way to get the mangeckyo was killing your best friend. However in any event it so happens that alot of people get it without killing there best friends. exp: Sasuke Uchiha Kakashi Hatake

It is also clear that Obito did not in fact have the mangeckyo. If anyone Remembers Obito had just revealed his sharingan right before he was crushed. He also only had two symbols in it.

--Six-shot-samurai (talk) 18:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)six-shot-samurai


 * Its not killing u'r best friend...rather, killing sum1 close to u...Sasuke = Itachi...the way kakashi got it is unknown..and yes, obito did not hav it, Kakashi attained it after getting obito's sharingan...AlienGamer | Talk 18:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Kakashi remains unknown, since he said in part I that all close to him was dead, and he got his Mangekyo sometime short before part II. Jacce | Talk 18:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm starting to think that Kakashi's Mangekyo is an issue for a Q&A thing. Anyone else agree?--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 00:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Itachi's other Mangekyo?!
Doesn't Itachi have 2 Mangekyo the 1 he has in the article and a fatter 1?!?!?Vegerot (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)!!!!
 * it apperars as if it has changed looks a couple of times. Jacce | Talk 14:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Then shouldn't we show them?!?!Vegerot (talk) 15:06, 31 May 2009 (UTC)!!!

Sasuke's OWN Amaterasu
I think that Itachi didn't transfer his eye techniques to Sasuke. Madara said himself that transferring Amaterasu into Sasuke was just a one-shot attempt to kill him, as evidenced by Sasuke's Sharingan's appearance (it was Itachi's). I think this Amaterasu was only a chakra imprint, just like Minato Namikaze in Naruto's subconscious - served its purpose then dissipated. All of Sasuke's dojutsu are HIS, not given to him by Itachi. Itachi only gave him a single Amaterasu to get rid of Madara - Xfing (Talk)
 * But we can't know for sure until it is said in the manga. Jacce | Talk 11:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

As you wish... but it seems that the opposite has also yet to be said in the manga. In that case, why follow one way and not follow the other, since both aren't yet proven by statements? PS Do you enter the posting date manually, or is there a button for it? - Xfing (Talk)
 * You just need to ad ~ after the text. Jacce | Talk 11:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

What a fool I am. Thanks, Jacce. BTW, please see the "Speculations part" on this Talk page. Xfing (talk) 11:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But Amaterasu is Sasuke's only mangekyou abily so far, correct?Psyko-Savior (talk) 13:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC) and xfing just type four ~'s. oops nvm

I am of the opinion he did transfer the techniques, so Sasuke would be able to access them immediately without training, after receiving the Mangekyou. He programmed Amaterasu to activate once he saw Madara's face, which was a one-shot attempt at killing him. He might have given him Tsukuyomi but we can't be sure. He tried using a Genjutsu on Kirabi, but it didn't saw which one. We won't be sure for another few chapters. {{Kyouken

Why is mangekyo sharingan considered a seperate kekkai genkai?
Why are there pages with "Has kekkai Genkai: Mangekyo sharingan", shouldnt it just be the main bloodline trait.. its still just sharingan. Simant (talk) 20:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * More precisely, it is a rare and more advanced version of Sharingan. Jacce | Talk 21:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Cause it's easier to organize and make things navigable that way? ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jun 20, 2009 @ 21:11 (UTC)

Different Mangekyo Sharingans
Why do you only put Itachi's Mangekyo on top of everyone who has the Mangekyo? If each one is different wouldn't it be better if you put each individual's Sharingan instead of Itachi's?


 * Thats just an icon....Since we want ppl to know that it represents Mangekyo, we needed one icon, not many....That one icon simply represents that the user has achived the Mangekyo sharingan...-- AlienGamer--Talk-- 17:48, 24 July 2009 (UTC)