File talk:Advanced Elemental Relationships Diagram.svg

Something weird with this image, the unknown combinations have the same color as the Ice nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:04, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * You want them to be empty spaces? they are Placeholders really. so we can edit original file to add new combinations instead of sloppily placing image just in that general area, I counted out the spaces so it was symmetrical(ish). Simant (talk) 16:12, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Not empty spaces, just think that if they had a more neutral color, say a shade of gray lighter than the Storm icon, or even just the outline would be more fitting. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:49, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't feel confident messing with the colors, or drawing lines... can never get them to look good. But sure if you can change the colors be my guest, and if you can you can link the known nature combinations, and leave the unknown unlinked. Simant (talk) 16:54, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok that, is awesome. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:23, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * *claps* nice. Simant (talk) 00:57, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Funny, the lines remind of of Sasuke's Mangekyo Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:06, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It has more points than his. Are the ones without "?" all confirmed? o.oNumber1ItachiFan (talk) 07:41, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:08, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Magnetic Element
Since 546 confirmed that Magnetic Release is a Kekkei Genkai, and it comes from the Wind & Lightning Nations exclusively, should there be a placeholder added to the Wind + Lightning slot for that elemental release, with a "?" similiar to the Blaze Release?

Who says it has to be Lightning + Wind only because those nations possesses it? That would mean only the Earth and Water nations should have access to Wood Release. No i think Magnet Release is Ligthning + Earth. That just seems the most logical. KenjiNitari (talk) 19:21, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Magnetic & Explosion Release
Since Explosion Release was also used by Deidara, wouldn't it seem that it's earlier something else with Earth Nature? I'd assume Wind myself and place Magnetic with Fire and Lightning. Just thought I'd mention this, since it seems to me more logical (of course, nothing confirmed, so "?", but just trying to help and see where Magnetic Nature fits). - Metus ylc0304 23:00, July 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Magnetism doesn't really have anything to do with fire. I believe Explosion will turn out to be Fire Release and Lightning Release. The only thing Deidara uses Earth Release for is to animate the clay sculptures, making a long range Explosion Release. Magnetism will be Lightning with either earth or wind. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I completely agree but I'd presume that it would most likely be the former (lightning and earth), as the connection between the necessary metal typically being obtained from ore found within the ground, is far stronger and simpler than anything that could be established in relation to wind. Blackstar1 (talk) 23:55, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:00, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Omnibender I have to agree with you. I'm 100% certain Explosion Release is Lightning + Fire. And Magnet Release is Lightning + Earth. As to Deidara's explosion being earth-based as well. I think it is only his clay, that also explains why Sasuke's lightning could defuse his clay. KenjiNitari (talk) 19:12, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Blaze release
May I ask that Blaze release be removed from the diagram, as the Amateratsu flames are not related to a mixed fire and other release. Just saying as Blaze release is simply using Shape Transformation with the flames.--Biozim98 (talk) 04:04, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look up relevant talk page and talk page archives on why that is there. We've answered that question enough times already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:53, April 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * We have been talking about that a long time ago, but for some reason the admins dont want to remove it, and even change the explosion/magnetic releases whose positions right now don't makes sense, even though so many seem to agree that Explosion might be Fire + Lightning and Magnetism might be Earth +Lightning. I don't get why they seem so against it. KenjiEvans (talk) 09:55, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Like I said, go through the relevant talk pages and talk page archives, and read them. I've explained this more than enough times, in many different discussions, and people stubbornly elect to remain ignorant as to why stuff is listed the way it is. If you wish to be lazy and not look it up, it's not my problem. In particular read the archives on the nature transformation talk page, and pretty much every "(Element) Release" talk page archive. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:26, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

Adding shape transformation to something doesn't make it a new not to mention advanced nature, meaning blaze release is a combination of 2 "releases"--Elveonora (talk) 16:13, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * No it's not, when it's stated that Blaze Release is simply the manipulaton of Amaterasu, used with shape transformation, it's not a combinatin of two releases. It even says so in the Blaze Release page. Why is it you keep insisting on that? KenjiEvans (talk) 09:58, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Stop being lazy and read up those pages I told you to read. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:26, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok first of all, where are those pages? You tell us to read something that we dont even where is. And second, drop the attitude, just because some people dont' know where to find these pages, it's no reason to be rude and accuse them for being lazy. And finally, no matter what you say, it still doesnt change the fact that some of the Releases on this page don't make sense. You can talk about it all day, but that will not change the fact that the current Explosion and Magnet, not to mention the Blaze Release doesn't make sense the way they are now. I don't get why you seem so much against the idea of changing it so it makes more sense, especially if the majority agree. I'm not criticizing im'just asking because i'm confused that's all. KenjiEvans (talk) 18:28, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'm assuming you know how to use the wiki, that's why I didn't give precise instructions. Go to the Nature Transformation article. There are links to talk pages near the title of every article. If a talk page has archives, they will be linked at the start of the talk page, normally in the upper right corner. Also in the nature transformation article, there are links to each every Blaze Release, Storm Release, etc articles in the wiki. Some of those also have talk page archives where these explanations are available. I do agree that Explosion is most likely fire and lighting, and that Magnet is lightning and earth, but for reasons explained in those articles I mentioned, particularly on how advanced natures come to be, putting Blaze anywhere else in the image or removing it would be either removing information we do have, or making a guess that requires even more speculation. My abrasiveness with the topic stems from having had to explain this far too many times. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:59, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh those pages, yea I know about them I just assumed it was some other page entirely. I never meant to cause any chaos here. I signed up on this wiki in order to help since I'm a huge fan as well. So forgive me if I caused anything, wasn't my intention. But I do wanna ask, why do you assume Blaze Release is even a combination? sasuke is simply using his Sharingan to manipulate Amatersu, there is no mixing of chakra, so are you even sure it's a Kekkei Genkai (not including the Sharingan), and not a high-level Fire Jutsu?KenjiEvans (talk) 11:51, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Follow the reasoning:
 * All Releases shown have been elements → Blaze Release is an element;
 * All (canon) Releases out of the basic five are achieved by combining two (in kekkei genkai) or three (in kekkei tōta) basic elements → Blaze Release is an element that is achieved by combining basic elements
 * This is why we consider it a combination. We're simply following the logic and pattern established through the manga that holds true for every other instance. Unless Kishimoto reveals more information, supporting or refuting that Blaze Release works like this, the least speculative route to take is to assume it works as established. Because it's the least speculative assumption on what it is, Blaze Release has to enter the image somewhere, and that place, considering the previous reasoning, would be the elements Sasuke has displayed. Removing it from the image would be the same as saying it doesn't exist, or at the very least going through a greater leap of logic than anything already listed. I don't believe blaze to be fire and lightning, I don't think anyone with an ounce of understanding of the series would think so, but to try listing anything else that would make more sense would be venturing in the realm of speculation. In my opinion, and one I have seen other people considering in forums, I think that Blaze Release, as displayed by Sasuke, particularly the shaping of Amaterasu in weapons, would be a conjunction of Fire Release and Yin Release, which from the moment it was first named, linked to the creation of shape and form. It would obey the established principle of merging two chakra natures, while at the same time being a much more logical explanation. The reason we don't list it so is because the information on Yin and Yang Releases is very scarce. Other than the very vague and general description we got during Obito and Konan's fight, we hardly what they are and how they work. We don't even know if they can be merged with the regular basic natures, which is why we don't suggest in the image. Blaze Release being there is also why we don't suggest Explosion is Fire and Lightning (its current placement connected to earth somewhat based on Deidara also using earth), and in consequence why Magnet isn't Earth and Lightning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:00, December 17, 2013 (UTC)