Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-142748-20150410212019/@comment-142748-20150411180840

QuakingStar wrote: If we are going by feats alone then naruto is the absolute strongest being in existence period. You have to use what we are specifically told and what is confirmed in the Databooks too. Itachi and Shisui are the best Genjutsu users of the clan. Sasuke does not have Tsukuyomi, Seelentau and all the others have already debunked that. Also no, Ao said only Itachi could trap others in Genjutsu from that huge a distance. I never said he had KotoAmatsukami, I said that no other person besides Shisui has it, and Danzo and the crow don't count. Heh, that wasn't apparent at the end of the manga on Naruto being the strongest? Sasuke can't use Tsukuyomi, I know that.

No, Ao said that Itachi could put people in a genjutsu and control them out of the sensor range, NOT put them into genjutsu from long range. There's a difference.

Danzo is a Kotoamatsukami user since he has it implanted in his head and he can use it once a day instead of once every ten years. So you're mistaken here.

Madara and Obito have feats that are superior to Itachi in every category, including genjutsu. Thus we can say they are better than him. Itachi isn't on a magical pedestal.

Trappedinmygenjutsu wrote: @SuperSaiyaMan

Itachi is definitely a more proficient user in genjutsu than Madara. Madara only ever used genjutsu against Kurama and never against anyone themselves. I gave Hashirama the benefit of the doubt, assuming that he would at least fight Uchiha who use the sharingan genjutsu in combat during his lifetime. He also has the feat of creating a small scale Infinite Tsukuyomi with the base Sharingan, doing everything Itachi can do with Tsukuyomi with a weaker eye. And genjutsing Kurama is a feat that no other Uchiha, besides Sasuke and Obito, were able to accomplish. Its why it was considered such a tremendous feat within the manga.

Itachi isn't better than Madara in genjutsu, nor is he better than Obito. 30M is sufficient distance in order to defeat Hashirama since the totsuka blade bypasses the opponent's healing, along with Itachi's feats of better speed and reflexes. Itachi doesn't have better speed or reflexes than Hashirama. That's a false claim and is easily disproven by actual feats in the manga. Hashirama even has a better speed feat (Outrunning a Bijudama) and could react to Edo Madara who was blitzing the Gokage all day. And Itachi's Susano'o always takes time to create, which he won't have here, his Susano'o isn't instantly created. As I have previously shown, there are plenty of scenarios where each character can win. Hashirama easily has much more stamina and destructive capability (if he forces the fight to rely on these factors than he would win). While Itachi has a certain skill set (Genjutsu, Totsuka blade, Yata Mirror, Susanoo, etc) which along with his superior intelligence, allows him to be a very difficult opponent for just about anyone. Genjutsu is useless due to Hashirama's sensing abilities. Totsuka won't be able to touch him due to Hashirama's speed. Yata Mirror is useless since its not omnidirectional nor does it have the feats to survive blows from Mokujin. Susano'o is useless due to how tiny it is and its inability to block Flower World's pollen.

You're kind of overestimating Itachi greatly.

Neither need to be restricted. Sage mode wouldn't change that much anyway, Hashirama already has a major destructibility and stamina advantage but the fight does not necessarily have to rely on those factors since the fight could be over long before (sage mode would be of any relevance in the fight). Uh with Sage Mode, there's literally NOTHING Itachi can do against Hashirama. He has nothing to counter Shinsusenju. He has nothing to counter Hashirama's enhanced sensing. He has nothing to counter Hashirama's Myojinmon Gates.

Sage Mode Hashirama is the pinnacle of what a shinobi could be with only the likes of BM/BSM Naruto or BM Minato being able to match him, Itachi doesn't even come close to that.