Talk:Lava Release/Archive 1

has this been confirmed
i am wondering if this lava release has been confirmed by the databook, mainly because i have not had the chance to look at a english version
 * Apparently third databook confirmed it. Leafninja is using Lava release too, so I assume it's true. Jacce 10:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #14579
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''There needs to be a citation because this fact is never stated in the manga. ''

About Hiruzen SArutobi
I think he can use lava release.


 * He can't. Lava Release is an advanced element created by merging Earth Release and Fire Release. Creating an advanced element is only possible with a kekkei genkai, or in this case a Tailed Beast. The Third Hokage had neither.
 * What he did was combine an Earth Release technique with a Fire Release technique in the same way Yamato and Naruto combined Water Release: Tearing Torrent and Wind Release: Rasengan to create the Typhoon Water Vortex Technique. There is no Lava Release involved. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

He can't use Lava release. It was especially made by a tailed beast. It is also a form of elemental recomposition, not only a tailed beast. I haven't seen Hiruzen use wood release either, so that counters this idea.

Name Change
I just read the viz translated version and it said instead of Yoton or Lava it said Corrosion. Should we change it to that? Saimaroimaru (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I found it in the english released manga, lets see manga vol. 40 or 39 I think. Saimaroimaru (talk) 21:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Discussion at Talk:Rōshi. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 22:06 (UTC)

if i may make a point, it appears that roshi's and the mizukage's lava technique is of the same type of kekkei genkai(yoton)it would only seem that iwagakure and kirigakure have different names for it, iwagakure calling it corrosion, and kirigakure calling it lava, just a thought --Caseather (talk) 20:51, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Status
Should it be pointed out that it is the only nature recomposition that doesn't steem from a kekkei genkai? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That depends, do you have any reason to think it isn't considered a kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 16:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not. It's not something that can be inherited, as far as we know. Roshi can use it solely because he's the host of the Four-Tails. It's not like Haku's Ice Release that he inherited from his mother, or the Wood Release which was put in Yamato's genetic code. No idea if this could work like Gaara's sand though, if Roshi had been resurrected after the Four-Tails being extracted, we don't know if he'd keep it, like Gaara kept his sand, though it's likely. Even then, it's not something he inherited from someone else. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 00:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Using the logic they lack the blood, and the lineage to have a bloodline limit, then yes, Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai's. Regardless is regardless, I don't see this as a Kekkei Genkai, and merely see it as a special ability of a demon. Nature Transformation sure, but no kekkei genkai.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So, should it go to the page? We already have a trivia for the lightning nature, about it being the only one not known to be used to create a new nature. We could also mention at water and earth that they're the most used in elemental recompositions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Saying Tailed Beasts lack blood or lineage is rather speculative, in my opinion. I take it you're basing that on the fact they're said to exist out of chakra, but that doesn't mean they don't have blood or organs. Using your logic, Tailed Beasts should be intangible masses of energy, as that is what chakra is. However, the Three-tails teaches us that Tailed Beasts are tangible and Naruto's higher transformations tell us that they have bones and muscles. They likely have blood as well, and possibly the ability to procreate if they could find a suitable mate. However, the lack of a lineage shouldn't really matter. The First Hokage didn't pass his Mokuton on to his descendants, yet the Mokuton is considered a kekkei genkai. There is nothing that suggests we shouldn't consider Yōton a kekkei genkai. Even taking away all other things, it was literally stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a kekkei genkai. That is what the Four-Tails does, ergo he has a kekkei genkai. Rōshi, of course, doesn't have this kekkei genkai (although it could be that he would have kept the Yōton if he had somehow survived the extraction). This doesn't mean the yōton he uses isn't considered a kekkei genkai, though. Kakashi doesn't have a kekkei genkai, but uses the kekkei genkai of someone else, yet his sharingan-related abilities are considered kekkei genkai-related. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * True. I used the logic that they lack blood solely because I haven't seen blood. Anywho. We don't know if it is a Kekkei Genkai, but we do know it is a Advanced Nature Transformation. My way we simply wouldn't add reference to kekkei genkai's to the article simply because we don't know if it's one or not. But thats just me.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It was stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a type of kekkei genkai. If kekkei genkai is by definition mixing chakra natures, then doujutsu would be advanced natures as well. IMO advanced natures and kekkei genkai, while usually related, are by no means the same thing. At the very least, I see no trouble adding something like "it's the only advanced nature known not to stem explicitly from kekkei genkai". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In chapter 316, Kakashi says . In other words, the ability to create an advanced nature like Mokuton or Yōton is called a kekkei genkai. Not all kekkei genkai are advanced natures, of course, but this quote does imply that all advanced natures are kekkei genkai. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And to add to it, a Kekkai Genkai, doesn't necessarly have to be from family lineage...look at the 1st Hokage's Wood Release, and 3 Kazekage's Iron Sand...It wasn't passed down genetically...More like they had the skill and requirments to achieve it...--AlienGamer--Talk-- 03:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that argument for Mokuton, but we can't say Iron Sand can't be passed down, there's no info on whether Sandaime Kazekage had children. I still see no problem in saying Lava Release is the only advanced nature so far not to have been explicitly called a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Tailed Beasts cant have Kekkai Genkai because as far as we no they cant reproduce so it cant be a Bloodline Limit Narutosagemaster (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * But look it at it this way. they always say the jinchuuriki of the four tails can use yoton but they simply could be saying that a jinchuuriki has a certain ability outside its bijuu. they have never significantly stated that the yoton comes the yonbi


 * They have, it's explicitly said in the third data book. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Its not quite confirmed since it says that by borrowing 4 tails power he learned the lava release. It gives away a number of possiblities like: helping him control it, training him, etc. but never states that he got the lava release from the monkey and let me remind that japanese to english translations are never 100% percent accurate


 * It's been said that the Yonbi itself spits lava, I believe in the art book in which it was shown its species. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Been waiting all this time, to make you see this. Sometime before I said that I was related to the plot producers clarifying that in the summit it would be revealed that Yoton was a kekkei genkai. although it did surprise that mizukage was the one using it. but told you it would come

What are you talking about? Weren't you that one person who tried to 'prove' his statements with an interview you never showed us? --ShounenSuki (talk 22:36, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Is corrosion style really lava???
Its called corrosion style in the anime, i know. Yet on here, everything also calls it Lava style. Given the mizukage uses the same style, and hers looks like acid, and acid could be called corrosion, is it not possible that the "Corrosion Style" of roshi is actually acid, and was just mistakenly called "lava" at some point?
 * The databook says this about yōton:
 * "The special ninjutsu manipulated by Rōshi, the jinchūriki of the Four-Tails. By using this technique that combines Fire Release and Earth Release, "lava" is produced that can completely melt all things [it touches]."
 * there is no doubt that this element is lava. --ShounenSuki (talk 11:07, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then why is the Kage of the water-themed village using it, and not, say, the Tsuchikage, from the same village as Roshi, the only other known user? Wasn't there some distinction between two kinds of Youton that was made clear when the spoilers for Chapter 465 came out? Something about two slightly different fire and water-related kanji for "you" or something? I'm not very good with Japanese, but I thought that the version Roshi used as a jinchuriki was slightly different because it's lava-related, and the Mizukage's version is more of an acid-based jutsu.


 * Well, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I find it highly unlikely that the Mizukage would be using a jutsu that's fire and earth-related. Obviously, characters like Kakashi have easily proven that you don't have to have jutsus or a chakra element that matches up to your home village or land, but still... you'd think the Mizukage, at least, would stick with water or at least water-like - in other words, acid - jutsus. Sure, I'm probably wrong on this one, but still, something's just weird about it if she's really using a Lava Release. I suppose all I can do to have peace of mind is wait to see the colored version in the anime, and see for myself whether it's actually lava or not. Teamrocketspy621 (talk) 19:49, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * What the mizukage's jutsu does has the same effect as the description for lava release in the databook "can completely melt away all things. I know the article now says that they are 2 seperate jutsus, and blames it on the grammer, but i really doubt a proffessional author would make two jutsu categories with no way to differentiate between the two other than just simply somehow magically knowing.  p.s. - the "water kage shouldn't use non-water based jutsu" argument isnt really valid.  4 of 5 hokages were never seen using any fire jutsu

corrosion style is just the name given by Viz's subbing...it doesnt mean much..its just like saying wind release: rasengan is wind stlye: rasengan cuz in Viz's sub it was writtten Wind Style: Rasengan--Moiz1224 (talk) 23:30, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

mizukage
i think its ridiculous to have a solvent release. it was clearly stated by chojuro that the current mizukage had a kekkei genkai of yoton which is lava release.

Jinchurikki Abilitys+Several Generations=Bloodlines.
I have a theory (that does have proof). When someone has a demon sealed in them they gain an ability( Narutos high stamina, Garras sand)so whats to stop that from being passed down to other generation. Like what if the first yonbi jinchurikki had a kid and some generations later the 5th mizukage had that bloodline. It was shown that garra has his sand manipulation AFTER Shukaku was exctracted from his body. and the Rikudo Sennin(the 1st Jinchurikki) gave his powers(or some amount) to the brothers and Madara and Harishima( the desendents of the two) developed there own bloodlines.( i know its seems faulty and speculative but please just think about it)--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 21:42, November 8, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan
 * Nothing suggests the Fifth Mizukage is a decedent of a Four Tails jinchuuriki, or that the Four Tails had one other than Roshi. Gaara retained his sand abilities, but just as nothing suggests something keep him from passing it on to his decedents, nothing suggests that it can be done. The powers the Sage of the Six Paths passed to his sons was never even implied to be derived from the Ten Tails, if anything, it's more likely it wasn't, because he split that power before dying. Also, Madara wasn't the first to have a Sharigan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Question...
Looking up the different radicals for "Yō", meaning to melt...

I discovered that Roshi's version, 熔, with the fire radical, can also mean, to smelt, or to fuse.

Mei's version, 溶, with the water radical, can also mean, to dissolve.

Sorry if I'm beating on a dead horse at this point. It's just that I think that this might be the crucial difference.

Roshi's "Yōton" is said to have been volcano-hot and could easily be used to melt down metals, if he ever wanted to be a blacksmith.

Mei's "Yōton" is seen to have hardened almost instantly... wait. Not exactly a display of dissolution, the one time she's been seen using it. --Reikson (talk) 00:21, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lava and Corrosion?
I'd Just Like to say that in the first time Mei shows her Yoton,in Viz, Chojuro calls it Lava style. So does that mean, for Viz's translation, we put Corrosion/Lava style?--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 07:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan


 * I think the version of Yōton used by Mei, which is written with the radical for water in the first kanji (溶遁), should be translated to something like Dissolve Release. The Yō in Yōton, written with the water radical (溶), can be read as lava, but translates more literally to solution/soluble/dissolve, which suggests to me that this shouldn't be read as Lava. Anyway, as we've seen when she used her jutsu, the liquid produced by her Yōton dissolves/corrodes stuff.


 * Even though Kishimoto has introduced Yōton thrice in the series, it has been written with two different kanji, 熔 and 溶, which to me means that they're only pronounced the same, but are different jutsu. Since Kishi is writing for Japanese-reading and -speaking readers, he doesn't have to worry about there being any confusion for them, so he doesn't have to clarify.


 * I'm also aware that the databook lists Yōton with both 熔 and 溶, and mentions the Yonbi as well, but it doesn't address the significance of using different kanji. My conlusion is that the 溶 Yōton used by Mei is a Doton-Suiton combination, and the 熔 Yōton  used by the Yonbi and Kurotsuchi, is a Doton-Katon combination, thus the respective radicals.


 * Also, the Yonbi's jutsu is clearly Lava Release, since it produces actual molten rock, but Kurotsuchi's jutsu creates a caustic substance (quicklime), and as I said before 熔 Yōton translates to molten/melt, so maybe hers is something like Molten/Corrosive Release.--Junaid-Sennin (talk) 14:13, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Speculations aside, we know all that already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Layout
There is still a possibility that 熔遁 and 溶遁 are different? Maybe we could have it like the Ice Release page for now, with two different sections for two possibily different abilities with the same name and similar effect. --GoDai (talk) 03:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a remote possibility, but Kishimoto-sensei has been rather inconsistent with the kanji he used for this technique, making it rather unlikely. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:31, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Was either element referred to as controlling lava (熔岩; 溶岩, Yōgan) exactly? Or were the names and effects just implying lava? --GoDai (talk) 23:52, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Four-Tails' Lava Release was clearly explained as manipulating . I don't believe it was literally stated of the Mizukage, but since the name and effects are the same, it is a safe assumption. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:15, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess so, but I think it should be noted 熔 means "melt; smelt; fuse; mold" while 溶 means "melt; dissolve; overflow" although in Japanese, both are allowed for "溶岩, Lava".
 * Just a question, on the original source of the Four-Tails' Yōton, were both words 熔遁 (Yōton) and 溶岩 (Yōgan) used on the same page? I still think the difference in kanji should be noted to a greater extent on the page, such as the possibility of the two not being the same. --GoDai (talk) 22:52, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

I made a list of what words were used where: With the way they are used, it is highly doubtful they were meant to indicate a difference in the Four-Tails' and the Mizukage's Yōton. I'd say it's worth a trivia point, at most. However, unless Kishimoto-sensei specifically notes there's a difference between the two, I'd say we shouldn't draw unnecessary attention to it. It might confuse people and misinform them. --ShounenSuki (talk 13:35, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Four-Tails' Yōton:
 * Chapter 353: 熔遁
 * Third Databook, Rōshi article: 溶遁, 溶岩
 * Third Databook, glossary: 熔遁, 溶岩
 * Second Artbook: 溶岩
 * Mizukage's Yōton:
 * Chapter 465: 溶遁
 * Chapter 466: 溶遁
 * Second Fanbook: 溶遁

So the Third Databook's article on him had the 溶. But isn't it strange how the 熔 is used in the glossary? Other than that, I guess we'll just have to wait to see the connection. It also could mean Masashi Kishimoto changed his mind and decided to start using the 溶 kanji instead, as I guess it is a little more common, and used more often in "lava" in Japanese. --GoDai (talk) 02:01, May 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * 溶岩 literally translates to lava, since it has 'molten' (溶) and 'rock' (岩), molten rock, which is lava. However, only in the 3rd databooks article is Rōshi's Yōton written as 溶遁, everywhere else its written with 熔遁. The difference being that 溶 is written with the water radical, and 熔 has the fire radical. Molten rock, i.e. Lava, is a combination of Doton and Katon, hence the kanji with the fire radical, so I think Rōshi's jutsu should actually have the fire radical kanji, and the other one with the water radical in Rōshi's article was probably a mistake, and refers to the Mizukage's jutsu, which is a acidic solvent and looks like a combination of Doton and Suiton, suiton because it's liquid.--Junaid-Sennin (talk) 14:24, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * And your point is? We already know about everything you said. Doton and Suiton make Mokuton. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Missing Info.
I noticed that Roshi is missing from the known users section and his jutsu, Lava_Release: Lava Geyser, isn't on the jutsu page even though its the image example for the article. Also the article lists the Four Tailed Monkey as a user but it isn't on the users page either.Umishiru (talk) 15:38, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * he isn't missing his name is listed. Maybe you need to empty your cache--Cerez365 (talk) 15:49, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Rōshi is mentioned, but due to how the page is set up, he'll never appear under the user list, nor will his jutsu. With the infobox, we're listing Lava Release as kekkei genkai. Normally, that wouldn't mean a thing, but since Rōshi's Lava Release isn't derived from kekkei genkai, he's not listed in the infobox. He's still mentioned in the article though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:19, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is a shortcoming that should be fixed. Like with a chakra nature infobox. ~SnapperTo 19:57, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Is it another bug?
I see Roshi and the other users listed in the jutsu section. I assume its a info box bug?Umishiru (talk) 23:05, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering...
But where and when did they mentioned it to be called Corrosion Style, and which person uses this name? Gentle Moonlight (talk) 23:18, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * When Lava Release is first mentioned. When Kisame talks to Itachi about how the battle against the Four-Tails went. The viz translation in the manga was Corrosion Style. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Difference between Mei's and Yonbi's
Well, I dont know if it counts or not, but there is one difference between the use of Lava by Mei and Four Tails. Mei and Roushi makes a lava with the color of red and yellow, and when the time will come, Kurotsuchi will most likely also make a red-yellow lava. But Four Tails, when briefly showen in the anime and in the image here on its page, makes a sort of cyan-dark blue lava. It would support that Four Tails' Lava Release is different than that used by the "normal" humans with kekkei genkai. But than, if Four Tails' lava is cyan, why when the battle between Kisame and Roushi ended, there was a red-yellow lava (Lava Release: Lava Geyser)? I dont know if the cyan lava is exclusive only to Four Tails or also to Roushi, who can use both red and cyan lava, I dont know.

Should it be noted that Four Tails produces a different-colored lava than humans? VolteMetalic (talk) 18:38, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the manga never showed any colour other than the greenish-blue lava used by the Yonbi. Seeing how Rōshi can use Lava only thanks to Yonbi, his lava should also be greenish-blue. The colour the anime gave it is most likely a mistake. Using the anime colours to draw conclusions about the differences between the Lava Releases, if there even are any, is really not a good idea. —ShounenSuki (talk 18:52, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe that green... whatever, isn't lava, but gas. Specifically, chlorine gas, which is green, which is released during volcanic eruptions in the form of rapidly-oxidizing hydrochloric acid.  --Reikson (talk) 22:27, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It would make an interesting way to kill; after all, we've weaponized chlorine gas ourselves, during World War I, or thereabouts. The Yonbi just has to unleash a gusty exhale, and poisonous chlorine gas will jet out of its mouth; it's fatal in high-enough concentrations and refinement.  But then again... apparently chlorine is more yellow-green than the sea-green that we've seen thus far, so... --Reikson (talk) 22:30, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Except that the description that goes with that images clearly states that the Yonbi spits lava. There's no doubt that that green flame thing is supposed to be the Yonbi's Lava Release. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:11, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Despite the fact we were only told that the Four-Tails spits lava, I see no reason for it to be incapable of spiting fire as well, that fire being the unusual blue/green thing we saw. In the second artbook, the thing coming out of its mouth looks much more like fire than it does with lava. I mean, lava is the combination of fire and earth, it makes no sense (to me at least) for it to be incapable of using those elements separately. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:36, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It makes even less sense to think that Kishimoto-sensei would draw the Yonbi doing anything other than its one characteristic ability, especially when he emphasises said ability in the commentary. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:46, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the thing we saw the Four-Tails doing in the databook is exactly the described ability. It doesn't look like lava. For it, it's like a flame that came out of it because it breathed. Kinda like dragons in cartoons just exhale fire when breathing, without necessarily meaning too. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:57, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * If what the Yonbi was spitting out was mere fire and had little to do with its Lava Release, it would make no sense, it would be inconsistent, and plainly bad from a storytelling point of view. The purpose of that image was to display the (still unknown) bijū and jinchūriki with their abilities. The Yonbi had its Lava Release clearly pointed out in the commentary that went along with the image. Not showing it would be ridiculous. As ridiculous as showing Utakata with a random Water Release, instead of his bubbles. Even more so, since the commentary clearly stated that the Yonbi could spit lava from its mouth, which is exactly what's happening in the image. I'm not saying that flame is lava, but it's certainly Lava Release (or directly related to it) and definitely not a normal flame. I have too much faith in Kishimoto-sensei's ability to convey information to believe otherwise. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:33, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the specific is that the four-tails "spits" up lava, there wasn't anything about what it belches, or exhales, or anything of that nature. --208.54.45.79 (talk) 16:13, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Which, in this context, would all be written with the same word in Japanese. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:13, May 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * You'd know more about that than I would... --Reikson (talk) 07:38, May 26, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia
Shouldn't we add that Lava Release shares the same romanisation as Yang Release in the trivia? Goten_ssj3 (talk)
 * as well as Swift Release I think.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:00, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should add in trivia that all users seem to use different forms of yõton. E.g quicklime, rubber, regular lava. Otokage (talk) 22:12, September 13, 2011 (UTC)Otokage

All variations are already accounted for. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:02, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Kekkei Genkai
So, after Dodai turning out to be another Yōton user and even from another village, we should really consider to change that they all use the same Kekkei Genkai. We have Mei as the only confirmed user of the Yōton-KG, it was never said that Kurotsuchi and Dodai also have the KG. Seeing Rōshi learning the Yōton from the Yonbi, it is very likely that there are other ways besides KG to learn how to create a mixed nature. I know that it was often said that the mixed natures can only be created through the use of a KG, but Rōshi is the 'living' rebuttal. What do you think? I mean, we could even create two different articles for each one of the Yōton, but I think that might be too fast^^ Seelentau 愛議 14:03, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it can stay as is mainly because of them calling it Lava Release and the fact that except for the non-canon "Ice Release" usage in the movie, there's no precedence of there being any non kekkei genkai releases I think. Kishimoto will probably explain this to us later else he wouldn't be doing it. I was also thinking of Magnet Release and the Third Raikage's reaction to the Fourth Kazekage using it which might indicate that it's not really a surprise when people from other nations possess the kekkei genkai. For all we know, they might all have ancestors in common or something.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:39, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * A Kekkei Genkai is a genetic trait, they don't need to be from the same village to have that. For all we know Kiri and Kumo could have kidnapped a lava user from Iwa, like Kumo tried to do with Hinata to get the Byakugan. Its too much of an assumption to say what the others use isn't a kekkei genkai. Creating separate pages is highly unnecessary.--Deva 27 15:25, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * ^Loool why didn't I think of that XD Kumo kidnapping the kekkei genkai users is actually really plausible.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:34, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I know, but in the end it's just fiction. It doesn't suit a Wiki to take fiction as facts, even if the sound plausible. The only fact is, that Mei has the KG and that it was never said that the others have the same KG. But this is what the article says, thus the article is wrong. Seelentau 愛議 16:35, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was stated that in order to use natures like this, a shinobi needs to have a kekkei genkai that combines two natures. The only exception to that is Roshi. There is absolutely no evidence that says there are others ways to use natures like this, so its even more speculation to say they don't have a kekkei genkai.--Deva 27 16:43, September 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Both is speculative. Thus I think we should just write something like "It is unknown how Dodai and Kurotsuchi use Yōton.", since this is the truth. Seelentau 愛議 17:26, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

There is more evidence pointing to Kekkei Genkai than against, I oppose your suggestion.--Deva 27 17:29, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * So far it's been established if you are not using a basic Nature (Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, and prob gonna throw Yin and Yang for good measure) you are using a kekkei genkai. The sole exception to this is Roshi because we know he got his powers from the Four-Tails. The only thing speculative about their situation is how they are related enough to use the kekkei genkai but that's more or less about the characters and not with the Release.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 18:04, September 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand both your points and believe it or not, I'm actually on your side. But it defies the sense of a Wiki to write down even the slightest bits of speculation. Seelentau 愛議 18:11, September 11, 2011 (UTC)

After re-reading this talk page again and seeing ShounenSuki's translation of what Kakashi said, I'm now okay with saying Dodai has the KG. Not that it would change anything^^ Seelentau 愛議 15:00, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sections
I move that this page have diferent sections to show the diferent uses that each user of lava release used it like in the magnet release page. like a section for kurotsuchi and her quicklime and dodai and his rubber. what do you all think?98.26.241.59 (talk) 16:41, November 1, 2011 (UTC)

Vulcanized Rubber?
How do we know it's vulcanized rubber? Aren't vulcanized stuff supposed to be black or something?-- 119.154.22.220 (talk) 16:19, December 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's form mostly resembles that of vulcanised rubber that's why it is said. Now as to the colour it could be green if Kishimoto wanted it to be. Think of its properties rather than shading in the manga.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:28, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

Corrosion Style
Just wanted to know which is the real Corrosion Style, because after reading the description of both Lava Release and Boil Release.. I get the feeling that Boil Release must be Corrosion Style..
 * boil release as corrosion style? I don't think i agree that's the answer. according to the viz version. boil release is known as vapour release. Kunoichi101 (talk) 14:47, June 4, 2013 (UTC)Kunoichi101
 * Yes, but the more you read about Boil Release, you'll understand that Boil Release has more properties closer to Corrosion. But if Viz manga translation says Lava Release is Corrosion Style, then okay. But then again..is there any reference?
 * just this trivia "Despite the name of this nature, it does not manipulate boiling water, nor does it boil other things. The name is more symbolic, representing the names of the natures used to create this nature. It is also symbolic of the appearance and effect of this nature, as the corrosion seen is similar to hot water burning something." Kunoichi101 (talk) 21:54, June 4, 2013 (UTC)Kunoichi101
 * Viz translates it as "Corrosion" in 353. "Lava" is used in all subsequent chapters. ~SnapperTo 22:56, June 4, 2013 (UTC)

image change
Shouldn't we use an image of its present form rather? Despite the debut rule--Elveonora (talk) 19:52, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Or couldn't we use a slideshow for the both types of the Yōton?! Mei's version (from the latest episodes) and Rōshi's version?!  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 19:55, August 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * What's wrong with the picture we have? It shows a user spitting a liquid that looks like lava.
 * @Shakhmoot, if we're going to make a slideshow then we should also add Dodai and Kuro's lava release as well to show the difference between all the forms of Lava Release. Joshbl56  19:57, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Joshbl56: Mei's version is only different from the other users according to the kanji names. We could add the variations of those users as points, so the two version that I mentioned above is worthy to have images there.  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 20:04, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

@:::Josh, because Mei's "lava" in fact doesn't resemble lava one bit as of manga and latest episodes. So having the old version there is somewhat wrong. And yes, slideshow would be ideal to show the differences between users (lava, syrup, rubber, quicklime and shit) --Elveonora (talk) 20:09, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well said, Elveonora.. So what about creating a gallery instead of using the slideshow to illustrate the variations for this "paralyzed confused complex" release?! What would be the main image for this article?  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 20:16, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * A debut one which would be Son Goku's artbook image I believe?--Elveonora (talk) 20:29, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Artbooks > Anime .. so yeah!  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 20:41, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Anyone willing to do so?--Elveonora (talk) 13:06, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hang on, what is this artbook image we're talking about? The only image like that I recall ever seeing was of the green fire-breathing, which technically isn't lava. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:07, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * I recall you arguing with Suki about this. Well, if you oppose that image, then so be it.--Elveonora (talk) 22:24, August 13, 2013 (UTC)

Bumping. Is anyone against displaying all the different kinds of Yoton?--Elveonora (talk) 19:32, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big fan of trying to put them all in the infobox. The bad thing about this case is that there are many variations, and none of them seem to be the "main" or most common one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:36, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really see a reason to change this image. It's just supposed to depict lava, which it is. Seeing if we can change it on the actual articles would be more pertinent in my opinion.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:44, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Cerez, the point is not all lava release techs are lava. @Omni Well, we can keep the one in the infobox then, but adding pictures of others in "variants" section--Elveonora (talk) 19:55, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * But not all Magnet Release techniques are iron sand. ¾ of the images in the infoboxes for nature transformation do not represent the whole. It's just supposed to represent it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:05, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not talking about infobox picture/s now, but something like Susanoo Weapon where all variants are shown in the article. We already have the pics uploaded, they just have to be pasted in here--Elveonora (talk) 20:12, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Magnet Release used to be like that, but still, technically with MR, what used was the tool the used magnetism with, not the magnetism itself. In this case, they very clearly spit out different things. It's like comparing regular water with the starch syrup WR jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:16, August 16, 2013 (UTC)

Rename
Since this release revolves in the characteristics of melting/dissolving (lava, acid, quicklime), should we rename it as "Melt Release", similar to "Explosion Release"? Dissolution or Corrosive also works. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 08:46, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Except you know. It's called Lava.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 13:58, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * It isn't actually.--Elve Talk Page 22:41, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I mentioned that somewhere else, but well. Yes, I think we should separate Mei's techniques from the others. Roshi and the others actually use Lava, Mei doesn't. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:24, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * But doesn't Mei actually call her technique's lava release not to mention there both created the same way? Munchvtec (talk) 04:31, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, she doesn't. The Kanji are different. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:46, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

oh...but they are created the same way.Munchvtec (talk) 14:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, they have the same basic natures, that's the stupid thing about it. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * So...i don't really know what you can do. do the data books state anything about them being diff natures? Munchvtec (talk) 15:17, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * The article even states that the two are snonyms and used interchangeably, and used as lava. The article also states that both have been used for Roshi. As such I see no reason to try and separate them into two different elements based off of this.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 15:32, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * What TheUltimate3 said. The article makes the different clear, there is no reason to split up the information here when it's stated. Mei's "Yoton" is just a variation of Lava Release. Changing the name would be fanon. --Sajuuk Talk Page 15:34, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Kanji have different meanings, though. And I don't recall Mei's Yoton ever being used for Roshi's Lava Release. Furthermore, the databook even says that Mei spits out something that isn't lava, but some acid or so. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:38, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * What's the name of Mei's nature ?--Salamancc (talk) 15:49, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Salamancc, it would be Corrossion Release, wouldn't it? I personally would just stay with the trivia notice, but maybe its just me... As confusing as it is, Lava Release doesn't just create lava, but also: quicklime, rubber... maybe in this case, its some sort of volcanic gas (I believe it can be acidic, can't it)?--Omojuze (talk) 15:55, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * No idea about the quicklime, but rubber can be created through vulcanization, so that's legit. Mei's Release would be Corrossion Release or something like that. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:12, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, i don't think its a good idea to separate them. But, I'm only just one person, so my opinion doesn't really give much of a value. The only thing against not separating 'em is that we don't know if two same natures can create different kekkei genkai. That and the english dub called Mei's technique a lava release, or didn't it?--Omojuze (talk) 16:23, January 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * The dub called this a Lava Release technique, and the article already makes it clear the variant that Mei uses. There is no reason to split the article up, it's the same thing applied a little differently, which does not make it a different technique. --Sajuuk Talk Page 16:28, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Quicklime may have been based on volcanic ejecta. But I don't know if Kishimoto would have really researched that far. I'm not too sure if I have a proper opinion on separating Mei's, the article information is what I have to go off and it does seem properly explained — mayhaps a subheading/redirect to separate the two? •Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:30, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Didn't the foruth databook describe Mei's Lava as volcanic mud? It seems Lava release deals with lava yes, but also those materials associated with it in some form. Correct me if I am wrong but some of the substances you find in volcanoes are in fact acidic in nature.Umishiru (talk) 21:00, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Since we are involving something that melts and dissolves, why not just name it Corrosion Release? Since both kanji means to melt, just with either fire or liquid. Even rubber and quicklime involves some melting, as rubber is hardening of melted and vulcanized rocks, while quicklime has a corrosive effect and then hardening. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:34, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm against this. First of all, the dub referred to it as Lava Release, second, we shouldn't just re-name the article because users clearly use material from volcanoes (lava, magma, rubber). Not only that, but the rename would cause lots of confusion to others.--Omojuze (talk) 07:59, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Yatanogarasu: It's already mentioned in the infobox as an alternative name used in the translation.
 * There is zero evidence being given to change anything here. We are only going around in circles for no reason. --Sajuuk Talk Page 11:43, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bolding your statements doesn't make them any more true. As I said before, Mei's technique's databook article doesn't mention lava at all. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:29, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Seel. I might be missing something here because I have not seen the databook entry (point me to it if you can). Is it a case where the trivia in the article is incorrect? Will changing the name from Lava to Corrosion resolve the overall issue? My problem is creating another article for something that uses the same 3 natures. It may cause unnecessary confusion unless absolutely necessary.—Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:00, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * A rough translation can be read here. And I don't really know what to do with this "problem", either. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:52, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * But in your link it says "Volcanic mud", that means that her "Lava Release" is generated in the form of volcanic mud that generates acid. Easy as ABC.. >.<--Omojuze (talk) 13:56, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * The term used there is 泥流 deiryū, which translates to mud flow. A volcanic mud flow, known as lahar, would be called 火山泥流 kazan deiryū in Japanese. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:01, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

The databook can't be any clearer that Mei's "lava" is an acid. Therefore I support it should be renamed to corrosion release or dissolution release. Who gives a shit what the dub named it? The Japanese translation should have priority.--Elve Talk Page 14:45, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, it would be wrong to say that Mei's Yoton is entirely different. But to say that it is lava and to translate it as Lava Release is wrong as well. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:53, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, if people are in opposition of a rename, then I suggest us do the same as we did with Blaze Release in Fire Release's article and make a subsection for Dissolution Release here. EDIT: the image should have been changed long ago, since Mei's Yoton isn't like Roshi and Son Goku's in the canon--Elve Talk Page 15:04, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * I would be OK with this if Mei's techniques weren't called 'Lava Release' in both anime and games. But I guess, I'm not the one who can stop you and prevent the confusion it will cause.--Omojuze (talk) 15:07, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, @Seelentau, just because it was said "mudflow" doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be "lahar", as lahar is a mudflow. And, basic mudflows, at least to my knowledge, do not contain any acidic properties, unlike a lahar.--Omojuze (talk) 15:20, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit: I'm not sure if lahar contains any acidic properties, so don't quote me on that. But the acidic properties might come from gases produced by volcanoes. So it kinda be a mix of the two.--Omojuze (talk) 15:25, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * But it doesn't say lahar. Just acidic mud flow, nothing else. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:26, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * So "lahar" is not a mudflow? yes it is. They don't have to be specific. Not only that, but a mudflow is definately not corrosive.--Omojuze (talk) 15:37, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * They don't have to be specific, but we're still adding what was said in the databook and not what we believe what it could possibly mean. And I know that a mudflow isn't corrosive, but neither does lava has rubber-like qualities, yet we have Dodai's techniques. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:41, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * And does Dodai, does Kurotsuchi spit out lava? No they don't. Your claim is invalid sir. I can't stress enough, are we really trying to break the "1st (and the most basic) rule of kekkei genkai"? I would understand if the anime or the games would claim it to be different, but most, if not all, claim it to be "Lava Release". Its just a variation, ghesss..--Omojuze (talk) 15:45, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * If it would've said "volcanic mud", then I'd have no problem. But it doesn't say that. Also, I'm not for splitting the article, but we should probably emphasize it or so. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:00, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Noting in the trivia about what material is used is certainly enough. and again, despite not being called "volcanic mud", lahar is still a mudflow, which was named. And just 'cause the material doesn't contain volcano-themed properties, doesn't make it a non-Lava Release technique (hint to look at quicklime).--Omojuze (talk) 16:05, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't the article already emphasize the point that this nature takes on various different forms?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 18:54, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Based on what I've been reading Mei's kekkei genkai just sounds like another volcanic property which seems to be what Kishimoto has been doing with the users. I guess we just emphasise the differences and note any other descriptions.—Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:49, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Which is already mentioned in detail on the article. So nothing needs to change, everything is mentioned as it should be. :) --Sajuuk Talk Page 19:53, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just a future note and reference for the future since it seems some people need to reeducate themselves on element usage in Naruto. Names of the elements are symbolic. With fire release you can can make ash but you need to mix it with Wind aka scorch release in order to just manipulate or use the heat proprieties alone. Storm release is another, manga wise and anime wise, it does not create storms, it manipulates destructive beams of light that have more curves that I have a chance of winning the lotto. Dust is another, you are not manipulating dust particles so much as create an energy that can break down objects on a molecular level, dust. Earth release does more than earth, with it you can do density manipulation. Thus the added weight and flying techs Onoki implores. Lava is just another. Literal lava, cement that uses volcanic earth(used by the Romans in real life for construction), vulcanized rubber, and prior to the databook reveal a acid like substance that we now know is volcanic mud. A lot of things happen with volcanoes, so it could be worse. Volcanic eruptions can causing lighting to form and then we have Volcanic glass. But those are speculation in the Naruto context. The point is that the name is just a generalization, a symbol. The uses are another subject altogether. So please in the future, don't be shocked if a lot people object to changing element article name, mainly of the basis of how the element in question is used. Otherwise I would suggest we change Storm Release to Laser Release and Dust release to Atomic Release, but we know that isn't gonna happen. Illogical rant over.Umishiru (talk) 21:49, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * The thing is 塵遁 literary translates to Dust Release. While this one has more room for translation.--Elve Talk Page 22:21, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well it doesn't matter now seeing as we know now that Mei's usage does have something to do with lava/volcanoes. She like Dodai just went a step further in her Lava release training.Umishiru (talk) 22:38, January 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Having the wiki affirm that Fire + Earth = Corrosion Release rather than Lava would not solve this problem with other corrosive substances that are not lava but still are fire and earth as well? -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 23:13, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Renaming the whole article isn't a good idea, but we should in my opinion create a subsection for Mei's Dissolution Release. I mean, Sasuke calls his black Katon as Enton and it has one.--Elve Talk Page 11:32, January 15, 2015 (UTC)


 * Blaze Release had an entirely different name, hence an article and then a section. This one is far more stupid. Because, again unless the trivia is lying, Roshi's Lava Release was also spelled with the same kanji as Mei's, and we know his was straight up lava. So unless we want want to ignore other sources and pick and choose at the entirety of Yatanogarasu and Seelentau's word, I see no reason to make any changes to the article. As stated before, we already make note, multiple times, that Lava Release takes on various different forms, each use is listed here, and the alternative names have been used in the infobox. We're not "more right" or "more wrong" in inaction with this one.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 11:55, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. The difference in the used "lava release" forms can be added to the trivia section, where the different kanji are already explained. Norleon (talk) 12:22, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Roshi's Lava Release was written with Mei's Kanji once, during a time were Mei's Lava Release didn't even exist. So that's hardly any argument. But as I said, I'm not for splitting the article in two, but we should perhaps differ between Mei's Corrossion-Lava Release and the others Lava Release. Because at the end of the day, Mei doesn't create lava, but acidic mud. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:38, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * And only Roshi actually made Lava. Volcanic reaction and all that fun stuff be damned, the only one that was actually lava was Roshi. And we've already discussed Dust and Storm and what not. But all that takes a back seat to what I've been saying anyway: Mei's is already noted to being different. There is no reason to make a subsection for "Corrosion Release" when the term is 1) already in the infobox under "Other" and 2) is already mentioned with the other forms.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 13:42, January 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * That being said, can we change it from corrosive syrup-like substance to corrosive mud or volcanic mud?Umishiru (talk) 00:56, January 16, 2015 (UTC)

So... what of this bone of contention? Will anything happen? -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 17:53, January 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * I fixed the technique's article already. Don't know what will or should happen to this article. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:55, January 16, 2015 (UTC)