Talk:Nagato

When did Nagato become Jiraiya's student
I am having a doubt here. When did Nagato become Jiraiya's student? I mean did he become before Minato became a student of Jiraiya or after Minato. To put it simple, who became Jiraiya's student first, Nagato or Minato? I think you all must be interested in this question. So someone who knows about it, please answer the question. nagato, read the manga! Vik0z0z 22:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually shouldnt it be Minato, since when Jiraiya taught minato he was only a squad jonin leader, and when he taught Nagato, Yahiko, and Konan, he was already a sannin.Shuhei Hisagi 22:49, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

No Jiraiya taught Minato after and plus just because he was a sannin doesn't mean his rank changed.

Deceased Pains
As of Chapter 432 the following Pains' are deceased, although they may be able to be brought back by Naraka Path: Animal Realm (Second Body), Asura Realm, Human Realm. Preta Path is incapacitated. Does anyone disagree with this? Revan46 01:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC) I think Preta is dead I mean Look at this! It looks like his body was torn in half! He's dead.

GohanRULEZ 19:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * That's his cloak, if you notice he's spinning around, as such his cloak is spinning and flying in the hair. 99.250.49.86 14:48, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Well he hasn't move yet and we don't know if the punch killed him or not.

GohanRULEZ 19:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it wise, considering Pains ability to resurrect bodies to not label them deceased until they are actually replaced.--TheUltimate3 20:01, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually it would probably be reasonable to mark all of the bodies as deceased since they are just corpses being controlled from a distance.WolfMaster 20:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

this should prove he is dead.http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/16/

Seeing as how Pain's Naraka Path is dead shouldn't all those that have been actually killed (all but Deva & Preta) be considered deceased? --- Klross1. Well we can definatly consider preta path deceased Pain can't turn crumbled stone pieces into skin and bones so if he survives the fight with Naruto he would have to find a new preta pathWolfMaster 20:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No because Pain can probably just get more bodies like he did when Jiraiya "stole" one. SuperN 01:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No we can't. In fact, we can't consider any of the bodies deceased in the context of the Six Paths. They are all corpses being used as puppets. They can be destroyed, but they can't die again. Besides, they can likely be repaired by Naraka Path. "Deceased" simply isn't a good word to describe Pain's bodies. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes that is a matter of difficulty considering they are dead anyway but we have the old animal path deceased since pain replaced it and naraka path is incapacitated so it can't revive any of the other bodies so pain's six paths will all have to be replaced so they are all effectively deceased for good having lost their usefulnessWolfMaster 14:29, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Still, "deceased" isn't the proper word to use. "Destroyed" or "incapacitated" are far better. These words are better suited to describe puppets that can be repaired and didn't actually die in the conventional sense of the word. One wouldn't say Kankurō's puppets were deceased, right? --ShounenSuki (talk 15:47, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

No we wouldn't but however Kankuro's puppets where never alive in the first place but i have an idea why don't we just do the same thng as done with the old animal path put next to the paths Inapacitated and then beside that either Replaced or Needs ReplacementWolfMaster 20:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the problem with that is that we don't actually know if they need replacement. The only reason the former Animal Path needed replacement was because he was taken to Konoha, outside of Pain's reach. Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that they are currently incapacitated/destroyed. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:50, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Technicality, they ARE dead. But, in my belief, I think that the Pain bodies are pretty much puppets. Except, without chakra ropes and everything. So, I'm going to agree with Shounensuki and say that they're incapacitated/destroyed. You can't kill a dead when it isn't alive at all. -- Rasengan888 (talk) (Narutopedia Editor) 20:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

hair color?!
You have no proof that Pein's hair color is orange. And that picture from he anime,you could've mistaken it for brown or red. So untill you have more proof get a picture from magna. And not all Peins have to have the same hair color.


 * I'm going to assume you completely ignored the picture of several colored pictures of Pain. Including the info box, and the two images of Human and Petra Paths. So far his hair has been consistently, orange.--TheUltimate3 01:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

i repeat not all Peins have to have the same hair color. and that picture of pein with orange hair is clearly FANDUB


 * Page 1, Chapter 377. That is not fan colored. There you see three of his six bodies with orange hair. The infobox picture, comes from the newest databook. So far, as I have stated, Pain has consistently orange hair.--TheUltimate3 01:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

human naraka and preta were on page 1 chapter 377.no matter what u say ill find proof that pains hair color is unown

the spoilers(which look pretty real) for chapter 442 shows a color page with nagato's hair being red as a kid and currently.


 * You have about as much proof as I do. Except I have the edge because all his bodies hair has been consistently orange.--TheUltimate3 01:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Four bodies of Pain have been shown having orange hair: Deva Path;Animal Path(former);Preta Path;Human Path. And while I'm at it... Why was the colored image of Human Path changed to black and white? Paths 12:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Guys, all of Pain's bodies are orange-haired, except for the Demon Path who is quite obviously b-b-bald! Another thing: I suppose someone should switch the order between Human and Asura paths. Human is after God, while Asura should follow God. Asura is a superior being to a human. It should go like Deva > Asura > Human > Animal > Preta > Naraka.
 * No, the ordering is fine. The ordering has absolutely nothing to do with the names, Pain's bodies are listed in the order that they appeared in the series. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 13, 2008 @ 22:15 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be listed as black, because nagato's hair color is black(or some other dark color), but the real question is why is Pain's hair color orange (or someting like that) and why is nagato's hair color black???????


 * At least Deva Path's hair is orange because Yahiko (apparently) had orange hair. He may have gathered other orange-haired bodies after that just to remind him of Yahiko or something. As for Nagato's hair, we technically don't know that for sure that he's Pain's real body. Besides, we have a picture of Nagato on the page already.

look, apparently we have enough proof that his (Pain's Deva Path) is orange, or an auburn of some sort. The colored manga proves it and if u look on the Pain article, u can see the anime pic of him and see a little bit of his hair which, by the coloring, shows dark orange, brownish auburn-colored hair, so yeah... AMTNinja 18:38, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Resurrecting Pain
I'm putting Asura Path's status as "currently deceased" - he is deceased at the moment, for the time being, but he can still probably be brought back by Naraka Path. - Xfing

Good question???? --Tansl Retor 07:18, 30 December 2008 (UTC)Tansl Retor hey i thought pains name was spelled with an e like pein? Pain in Japanese is Pein. There are also other reasons why we use an A and not an E.SuperN 12:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * See Talk:Pain/Archive 1, "Pein" is the romaji, "Pain" is the official English listed in the databook. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jan 29, 2009 @ 07:28 (UTC)

Deceased VS Incapacitated
I think using "deceased" for the Pain bodies is rather superfluous and actually a bit ridiculous. Not only are they already deceased (as all seem to be simply corpses being controlled by Nagato), they can also be easily brought back to "life" by Naraka Realm. I suggest we change to using "incapacitated" or something similar. --ShounenSuki 23:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree: Based off the infomation we know deceased is an incorrect termonology to use describing their current state. They're like Zombie Puppets, Reanimated Corpses if you will. I believe that until the real 'Pain', Nagato if you will is dead another word should be used.

I need to ask can they be brought back now since Naraka Realm has been destroyed?
 * Probebly not the old ones, but as long as Nagato is alive he can replace them with new ones. Jacce 19:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

age
Pain, Yahiko, and Nagato are never given an official age, but the infobox does give one. Can someone remove it?

God Realm's Jutsu
Shinra Tensei is just the name for "repelling force". In the latest manga "attracting force" has a different name. I mean they both must have a common name and it is not "Shinra Tensei".

It's called bansho tenin

Pic
I found a picture of Nagato how he looks as of now.Can I put it up?

gohanRULEZ 21:33, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Wait for some high quality scans to surface. FF-Suzaku 11:56, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok

gohanRULEZ 21:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Speculations
Can someone clean up the speculations area? Some of these things have been proven false by recent issues (Including 436). Maybe these points could be moved to Past Speculations like disproved rumors in other articles. 99.48.50.112 06:24, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Yahiko vs Nagato
Shouldn't age, height and weight be removed from this page? (Those are Yahiko's data) Geohound 06:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Pain's real Identity
Now that Pain's real identity has been revealed to be Nagato, don't you think Nagato should be given his own page? Pain/Deva Realm from what we see is now confirmed to be just one of Nagato's 6 bodies he's controlling, whereas Nagato is an actual person.


 * My initial impulse was that the Six Paths of Pain should perhaps get their own seperate article, but it's hard to say right now. Really, all that's changed from last week is we know what Nagato currently looks like. Might be more prudent to wait and see how Nagato stands within Akatsuki, etc., first? FF-Suzaku 20:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

It would make sense.

gohanRULEZ 22:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Realm vs Path
Would it be better to refer to Pain's bodies as Paths, or as Realms? In a slightly different note, I thought that the correct name for Pain's Main body was "God Realm/Path", not Deva?The World Platinum 15:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * "Path" is a more literal translation of the kanji 道. "Realm" would be more appropriate (in my opinion) considering the Buddhist use of the words (although "path" is also quite accurate). I prefer using "realm".
 * Pain's main body is called in Japanese. This is the Japanese term for the Buddhist concept of the Deva Realm. Literally (without taking into account the context), the kanji for tendō mean "heaven path". However, the "ten" in tendō refers to a specific type of being, the Deva. These beings are often called gods in English, but that is really an inaccurate translation. The Deva are quite unlike the gods Westerners are familiar with. Therefore, using Deva would be more appropriate and would also show the link between Pain and Buddhism. --ShounenSuki (talk 16:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Alright, thank you very much, because I've seen it in multiple ways and was unsure which was correct.The World Platinum 22:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I think we should upload a image of the previous six paths of pain for reference. User:Minato

Chibaku Tensei
Can a mod or someone with power add Chibaku Tensei to Pein's main moveset please? --Lou Diamonds 14:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Nagato page
Shouldn't we make a separate page since pain is the 6 bodies and Nagato is guy controlling them


 * I concur. Pain and Nagato aren't the same being... Heck, Pain is actually a technique utilized by Nagato. 83.191.131.70 14:39, 16 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Then why dont we change the name, picture and stop calling him pain Jackrandle 16:34 march 2009 (utc)


 * I agree, as said above the "six Paths of Pain" is actually a technique and Nagato is the real being Shock Dragoon


 * Agreed, Nagato is his real name, Pain is just a disguise name he took up because he uses other bodies (and maybe a little because of his goal of showing true pain to everyone as well). As it is now, it's like naming the Hiruko puppet Sasori because Sasori used him or naming Madara's page Tobi just because he uses it as a cover name. --81.237.203.10 15:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Six Paths of Pain
Now that it has been converted to the "Nagato" page, shouldn't we create a "Six Paths of Pain" page so we can save space on this page? Shock Dragoon
 * Sounds like a good idea. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Mar 27, 2009 @ 22:47 (UTC)
 * I personally don't believe it a good idea as we'd be striping most of the information about the character away. At least until Nagato is dead or permantaly defeated so that we can see what the pages would look like. ~Super Novice-Talk to Me~ 23:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Super on this one. Because Pain, just due to simplicity counts as two characters (I.E. Naruto is fighting Pain, he is looking for Nagato), I would wait until we know we don't have to deal with frequent updates before trying anything.--TheUltimate3 23:09, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to me like a separate page will be needed soon. The Six Paths of Pain are, in effect, a jutsu utilized by the chakra receivers and the Rinnegan. On pages 13 and 14 of 441 we can see that Nagato does not actually occupy any of the bodies (namely the Deva Path). Instead, he transmits his own chakra to the bodes much like the puppet styles.


 * This means that it would be more accurate to classify Nagato as the character and Pain (or the Paths/Deva Path) entirely under either the "abilities" section or in an entirely new article.


 * The whole "Pain is Nagato/Nagato is Pain!" argument, while a good guess, lost credence in chapter 442 and was outright disproven in 441. It's probably best that we stop sticking to what's nice and cozy and familiar and change the page to what is the truth.--Newthx2u (talk) 02:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

NEW PIC
WHEN DID THE RED HEAD PICTURE OF NAGATO COME OUT!!!!!!! i never remember seeing this picture in anything is it fan colored??

one more thing should we move the 6 paths of pain and nagato in to 2 diffrent articles--PAIN (talk) 04:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The coloured pictures cam eout with chapter 442. Your second question was already answered in the section above yours.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 04:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry did not read the article above mine My Bad--PAIN (talk) 04:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I for 1 prefer the old pic.. AlienGamer
 * The old one isn't actually a picture of Nagato though now is it? Though i do admit he is ugly in the picture.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 04:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * -had to lol at that- Metus (talk) 08:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I prefer the old. But I'm gonna wait until others chime in. --TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:08, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya I Agree...These new pics look crappy...to say the least..... AlienGamer


 * It's not that it's crappy, cause in truth it's a good picture of Nagato. Just not the first picture we see of him.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:39, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

At least we should upload a High Quality part of that scan, this is a cropped part of the Sleepyfans scanlation and the qualiy is very bad, the same goes for the pictures in Yahiko and Konan's pages.--Dadadaft (talk) 15:10, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not that it's a crappy picture (though a higher quality would be great) it's just from my standpoint, that's not the first picture we see of Pain. For all extensive purposes it's the last picture. TheUltimate3(Not at my own computer)--131.118.64.110 (talk) 15:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry Ultimate but what do you mean last? I understand it's the lastest picture but last...?  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 16:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * (Before going to class) Since Pain was introduced (i.e. We could see his face) it has been in order, Deva Path, First Animal Path, Preta and Human Path, Then Asura and Naraka Path, New Animal Path, and then after seeing 7 Paths of Pain we finally see Nagato. That's why this is technically his last appearance.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 16:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I understand now.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 16:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Image policy has been to use the first appearance that a character has showed up with. The older pic may have been better just like how we use a Tobi pic for Madara Uchiha. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 19:41 (UTC)
 * I uploaded the redhead pic. I understand that the "first appearance" pic is the one that's usually used, but God Realm isn't actually Nagato. If this page was the "Pain" page, then God realm would be fine. However, this is the "Nagato" page. Lest just stick to the main pic being a (preferably higher quality) redhead pic.--NurXang (talk) 20:28, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying Dantman but wouldn't this situation be a bit different? In the Madara one It's the same person and body but different names. In this one though it's two different bodies, two different names just both under that same control.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 20:32, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not two different names. "Nagato" is the old name, "Pain" is his alias. Just like "Madara Uchiha" is using the alias "Tobi". And while he has multiple bodies, it's not a case of control where an external person is being manipulated but still owns that body. Nagito's ability takes dead corpses and allows him to manipulate them as his own body, for all intensive purposes the bodies become his body and no longer belong to the old owner. He may be a patchwork made up of multiple bodies, but they are still his bodies. Just like how Kakuzu takes other people's body parts and replaces his own with them, has multiple hearts none of which even have to be his own, and can separate his body into 5 individual bodies. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 21:45 (UTC)
 * No. just pretend that the 1st time we saw Kankaro was one of his puppets we still wouldn't put 1 of his puppets for his picture. Vegerot (talk) 14:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd say you're correct, this situation is a bit different. This is more like the situation with Sasori and Hiruko. None of the Six Paths of Pain are actually Nagato, they're corpses he controls like puppets using his chakra transmitters. Deva Path, for example, is simply Nagato manipulating and acting through Yahiko's dead body. Unless we get enough information on Nagato to warrant the seperate articles for Nagato and Pain, I think that this is probably for the best; We don't know how much info we'll get on his various bodies when the next data book comes out, so I think it's best to keep this page Nagato-centric for now, since we actually have stats for him. At any rate, I'm currently cleaning up and enhancing a higher quality scan of the 442 frontispiece, and will upload better images of Nagato shortly, as well as Yahiko and Konan. FF-Suzaku (talk) 21:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Kankuro's puppets are puppets, he controls them through chakra threads. Pain's paths are bodies, he manipulates them from inside without any chakra threads, he sees what they see, and feels what they feel. They are bodies, puppets are inanimate objects. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 22:01 (UTC)


 * Actually, he controls them by transmitting his chakra (via the numerous black rods piercing his back) into the chakra reciever piercings on the bodies -- like a remote control. The bodies are the corpses of deceased shinobi, and I believe dead bodies are generally considered inanimate (hence why bringing them to life is called reanimation). He doesn't control them from "within", though if he did, it wouldn't be much different from the way Sasori controls Hiruko, which he wears like armor; furthermore, Sasori was able to transplant his heart into other puppets and take control of them. We still don't know the exact details of how Nagato manipulates them, but it's probably similar to the way he is able to paralyze his still-living enemies by stabbing them with the black spears and pouring his own chakra into their bodies (with an image of the Rinnegan always appearing in the background behind them). FF-Suzaku (talk) 23:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This is absurd, Nagato's page deserves a picture of Nagato and a Pain page deserves a picture of Deva Path. It's not fair that the wiki has to have wrong images just because the admins think that's the way it should be. Separate the Pain and Nagato pages and the problem will be solved.--Dadadaft (talk) 23:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They are technically the same person. If you read the section above this section you can see why they won't seperate them into two pages.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 23:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Birthday
Now that the page has become "Nagato", shouldn't his birthday be added to his infobox (since we can't do it)? It's September 9 or 19.
 * Where or when did it show Nagato's birthday? I think we only know Yahiko's.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 16:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I read it in the Third Databook
 * Sign your posts please. Edit it in on this page. Here  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 16:44, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks man, but when I edited it, It didn't show up! Does it take time to change or something? User:Shock Dragoon
 * Not sure what happened I'll look at it later.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 19:12, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed it for you. Bithdate not Birthday. :)  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 19:21, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Editing Ideas
Well, I was thinkin', maybe we should make a part about his real body, and his/its abilities, like ya did with the other bodies. And, I know where he uses Wind Release: Violent Wave Palm (I think that's the name, and it would be really cool if Naruto learned this sometime), but why isn't it listed with one of his bodies, or all of them if they can all use it? That's all.--Kagimizu-Seeya 'round~ 22:39, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's Wind Release: Violent Wind Palm. It's not listed with any of his bodies because he used he used it as a child, with his real body. As for his main body, any abilities he uses with it should probably be included in the main body of his abilities section. Right now, the article looks as though it would need a considerable amount of updating to bring everything in line with the recent change of making it center more around Nagato than on his "Pain" persona.

Ordering of Bodies
I believe we should reorder the list of bodies in their order of appearence; Deva, Former Animal, Preta and Human, Asura and Naraka, Animal or whatever offical list Buddisum has for the realms; Deva, Human, Asura, both Animals, Preta, Naraka. Six realms  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 23:02, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought we were already ordering the bodies by order of appearance? If the ordering is wrong then that should be fixed to be in order of appearance. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 23:06 (UTC)
 * I've put them in correct order by appearence now. Dantman, question how are we going to handle the 'path' in the name of the Sage of the Six Paths?  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 23:14, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Need a little more thought on how to deal with what is a title and what isn't. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 4, 2009 @ 04:41 (UTC)