User talk:CombatIQmatters

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YM
As requested. My first piece of evidence against the YM.

Here is some proof that YM is not omni-directional and cannot reflect any attack. Ch392, pg 10, you can see one of the snakes from Orochimaru's eight branches technique bypassing the YM (Meaning the YM is not adapting to the snake's attack). It's bypassing the YM by going over the top. Anime further proves this, in episode 138 of part 2, multiple snakes bypassed YM and even constricted Itachi's Susanoo with the YM in tow. @Lone brought forth the canon policy on this wiki makes anime portrayal of canon fights..err..canon.

Ninja Of War (talk) 20:10, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so, Exhibit A is Chapter 392 pg 10 Well I have a few points for that. 1) I think we have a different way of looking at the Yata Mirror's function. Sure it looks like the snake is going over the top, but does that really matter? The mirror's goal is to protect itachi and his susano'o. If the snake continued to push over, the mirror would continue to expand in my opinion. The manga panel is frozen in time, and the snakes were immediately decapitated after that. And that very same panel is concrete proof that the mirror adapts. The mirror is now suddenly taller than susano'o, because not only is the mirror touching the ground, it  it expanded in height to cover susano'o's face. Furthermore, the mirror is also clearly covering the side of susano'o. Even if we say the anime portayal is canon (which it shouldn't be because it directly contradicts what was shown in the manga), it's still clearly an outlier, and I can prove it in my next bullet points.

2) Exhibit B, Take a careful look at Chapter 393 pg 8. I'm looking at the Viz scans, both in color and in black and white, and you can clearly see the mirror expanded to cover the left side of Susano'o. Not only that it expanded to cover susano'os head, and is even reaching as far as to cover the back of susano'o, clear evidence that the mirror adapts.

3) Exhibit C. Take a careful look at Chapter 393 pg 5-6. The mirror clearly expands in height to counter an upward thrown paper bomb thrown at susano'o. On that same page, you can clearly see the SFX :whoosh, which means rapid movement through the air. That is concrete physical evidence that the mirror adapts, and the SFX proves that the mirror was decreasing in size back to normal. Undeniable evidence.

4) Finally, Exhibit D, Chapter 393 pg 9. The Yata mirror is not only covering the front, but has expanded to cover the WHOLE LEFT SIDE of Susano'o! You have to remember that the mirror doesn't have a physical form and can change any of it's properties. So going back to Exhibit A, Chapter 392 pg 10, One of the snakes was deflected backward. The other snake was deflected upward, and then there is a snake on the ground that was attempting to move around susano'o, but you clearly see yata expanding to cut off it's path. After that, we don't see what happens because the totsuka blade goes to work. So I don't think that discredits the mirror.CombatIQmatters (talk) 22:18, December 3, 2018 (UTC)

____A) Okay, you see when users talk to me about the YM and it's abilities I keep on coming back to this chapter 392 pg  10. Since in that instance the mirror failed to adapt to the snake going over the top. It is not frozen in time, there are motion lines drawn around the snakes, indicating they are in motion. Like in mathematics, for a series or sequence to be given a formula, it needs to hold for all instances. If there is one instance where the "formula" fails then it cannot be correct or proven. This is what is happening with the YM in this instance.

On your points B)-D), I would address them, however, my point A) already derails the YM adapting. How do you see the YM adapting when there are no motion-lines indicating expanding for the YM?

Ninja Of War (talk) 12:41, December 4, 2018 (UTC) Okay, I accept your challenge. I don't think I was clear about what I meant about the panel being frozen in time. Yes, the snakes have movement lines which indicates the snakes were moving. But as I meant to state in my previous post, you can still clearly see there are also plenty of movement lines along the backside edge of the mirror, i.e, the parts of the mirror on the rightmost side of the panel. Susano'os head is also completely covered. The manga panel is still only a snapshot in time. The movement lines on the mirror clearly show that if the snake continued to slide over the top, the mirror would have adapted using those extensions we see, and it could easily become a dome, and has practically almost become a 360 degree dome to adapt to attacks in some instances in points B-D. I wish there was an easy/legal way for me to upload an image with the movement lines I'm talking about highlighted, but you should be able to see them if you are looking at that panel carefully.CombatIQmatters (talk) 23:00, December 4, 2018 (UTC)

___Sorry for the hiatus. Unfortunately, the motion lines you indicated for the YM are resulting from the collision from the multiple snakes before hand. As is indicated by the snakes that were deflected backwards, and the anime portrayal, which I remind you is canon due to the wiki canon policy. Furthermore, the panel I mentioned shows the one of the snakes going over the top of the YM. The YM is not adapting before hand, and the motion-lines on it are backwards due to post-collision. If the YM adapted in line with the snake going over the top, I would accept your interpretation, however that does not happen. Ninja Of War (talk) 15:05, December 11, 2018 (UTC) @Ninja of War, No problem.

The shield still clearly grew significantly on that panel though is my point. The Yata Mirror hence adapted. The snake going over the top is only an issue if it was clear that the mirror wouldn't further adapt to it. But like I said, the next thing we see is the totsuka blade decapitating the snakes... with no viewpoint on the mirror for the reader... Also, the anime takes a lot of liberties with many things and has generated it's own inconsistencies with the manga. I can literally list a ton of things the animators added that did not take place in the manga. For starters, look at Deidara vs Gaara in the manga vs Deidara vs Gaara in the anime, many things happened in the anime that were not even remotely hinted at in the manga. Or even Asuma vs Hidan in the manga vs anime. Here is a kicker, Kakashi and Team Shika against Hidan and Kakazu. Going by the anime Kakashi and Kakazu are near equals in Taijutsu, but in the manga no such Taijutsu Skimirsh ever took place, among other things... So even if the wiki policy allows the use of anime scenes that did not take place in the manga for debating purposes, Clearly that is problematic if the anime contradicts the manga... does it not? The manga did not show those snakes coiling around Susano'o.

So if the one of the cornerstones of your argument is that the anime shows the mirror failing to adapt, then that is fine, and if the wiki policy says that that is canon, that is also fine, but it doesn't mean the anime's depiction is correct. The animators take deliberate liberties with the source material, and as far as I currently know .Kishimoto and his writing assistants/editors had nothing do with the animation of that scene, therefore I do not see how it makes any merit in an honest discussion to determine the validity of Databook 3 (a material also written by Kishimoto and his assistants). My purpose in this dicussion is to determine if the manga, the ultimate source material from the author himself, which takes priority over everything else, failed to show the Yata mirror adapting. If the manga fails to show it adapting, then Databook 3 is debunked. But so far, I think I can still argue the case with you that the mirror would have continued adapting had it been given the chance on Chapter 392 pg 10. CombatIQmatters (talk) 00:47, December 17, 2018 (UTC)

______Well, I see your position in this discussion. To me, your argument rests on the assumption that the mirror will react to the snake in a later panel. Looking on Chapter 392 pg 10, we see the snake over the top, with the mirror not adapting. I find it hard to believe that the YM will let a snake(an attack) over it's guard and then at the last moment adapt to defend. So there are several assumptions being made here, 1) the YM doesn't react at the same moment as the incoming attack, 2) the YM waits till the last moment, 3) the YM adapts perfectly, unless you use another one of your abilities to counter. There are too many assumptions there. Assumptions don't negate what is shown on Chapter 392 pg 10. The YM didn't adapt then, so Databook 3 is debunked as far as I'm concerned.

Ninja Of War (talk) 18:31, December 28, 2018 (UTC)