Forum:Community Adoption Request

Discussion
It's up at w:Forum:AR:Adoption_request_for_Narutopedia_Wiki. I didn't see it linked here, but figured anybody participating in this thread may wish to review it as so far 3 people have posted there. +Yc 06:14, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm so sorry no one so far notified the entire wiki. Speysider wants to adopt the wiki because Dantman is inactive. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 06:21, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That is... really... rude? — S im A nt 06:30, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I dont think he wants to do that, but Just make any admin, a bureacrat (Atleast I want that) —¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 06:34, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Simant: What do you mean? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 07:29, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Simant: How is it rude ? Also, the two known bureaucrats have absolutely no involvement with this wiki. --Speysider (Talk Page) 07:30, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well thats not the purpose of the adoption request on the community wiki.. that is for inactive wikis or wikis with no sysop. If a bureaucrat is needed a sysop can simply request via special:contact a promotion with a link to community consensus. There is no chance of them assigning a bureaucrat like that for one of their 10 ten bread earners. — S im A nt 07:32, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Speysider: Before you start to accuse others about being unjustified in their reaction to this, you should (re-)read the guidelines for making such a request, in particular those concerned with wiki (in)activity. Even if you managed to somehow err over these very clear rules, common sense at least should have dictated that it was unwise to completely circumvent all of the admins on this, so don't be surprised by any of the potential backlash you could receive. Blackstar1 (talk) 08:05, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Blackstar1 It honestly doesn't matter what insults get thrown at me, I've gotten used to it by now. As far as I can tell from Wikia policy, there has to be active bureaucrats and since the only two known ones are not active, the wiki becomes available for adoption. --Speysider (Talk Page) 08:38, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * If they won't give the powers to Speysider then it would be given to other admins. This is actually did for the good of the wiki. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 08:48, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Speysider: That isn't the case and personally, I feel the Adoption Request article makes that very clear:
 * "This page is where you can request administrator and/or bureaucrat rights on wikis without an active admin and/or bureaucrat team." (first line of article)
 * "Is the wiki inactive? No sustained editing by other users. If there are other users please start a blog post or other public discussion of new leadership before making your request and allow users at least a week to respond." (first guideline)
 * @IndxcvNovelist: I'm not in any way debating the benefits of having an active bureaucrat, but I don't believe Speysider shared your intentions when he made this request and even if he did, this certainly wasn't the correct way to go about it. As I've indicated above there is a clear procedure to such a matter and informing the community beforehand, let alone the admins (who this directly concerns), is an extremely important part of this process. Blackstar1 (talk) 09:11, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Anyone mind telling me how I put my name for the Adoption thing?--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:01, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @TU3: I think u should use Special:Contact—¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 10:03, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well that solves one issue. Now how do we deal with the current adoption request that is technically illegal (heh), because none of the wiki's current and active admins were notified about it.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 10:07, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Blackstar1 + @TU3 If Wikia staff think it's against the rules, they will deny it and do it privately. You don't need to waste your time preaching rules I am already aware of. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:09, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Was not preaching any rules. And since we do apparently need a bureaucrat we probably do need a voting on who should be chosen for the task.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:12, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * The "rule preaching" was directed to Blackstar1, I failed to edit :(
 * I'll go for Jacce, Simant or Omnibender since they have a heck of a lot of edits. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:13, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Since I'm not really that civil, I think I'll refrain from posting my previous message. I'm for the voting in of another bureaucrat if it's necessary that we have one. However, I don't think it should be left open to the entire community. The Administrative team: Sysops and the rollback users we have etc should make that decision amongst themselves. Or just go with seniority.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:17, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Cerez, according to wikia policy, it has to be done by the community. No crats will be appointed without community approval. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:19, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree Cerez. Probably the path of most order if the sysop and rollbackers decide. Limits the pool of voters to those with some sort of administrative ability.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:20, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

But the wiki policy is clear —¤ S @lil ¤ (T@lk) 10:25, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure we'll all be fine with whomever they chose Speysider. It's not as if we don't know the users. The rest of us can squabble about it one they choose a candidate. Heh, this is just like choosing a Hokage- Sandaime Bureaucrat Candidate→ then the regular forces can give their opinions.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 10:27, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I know lol, but on another wiki I had to physically recommend someone for bureaucrat before it could be given. Hence, the whole community must be in agreement to the promotion. No point promoting someone that people aren't sure about --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:29, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right about that last part. However, my opion's been stated and I stand by them making the decision. I have faith in the Admin team. Would be even better if Dan popped round as well.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:32, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * And the entire Wiki will have their say, when a list of suitable candidates are produced. Otherwise wise we can end up with the issue where the wrong users can be chosen. Users with administrative power who edit regularly is myself, Omnibender, Jacce, Deva, and Simant. I wanted to give Cerez power months ago, but I couldn't >.> and then he seemed to be able to handle any issue he came across without powers. Other than these six people, I don't believe nobody else is qualified to administrate this wiki.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:36, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * You put a lot of emphasis on the last two words. I'm pretty sure there's many other people who are qualified, not just those 6. User:LeafShinobi is one such person who is a very active editor here. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:39, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh dear Ulti._. But I'm afraid if given power i'd have all the other Naruto wikis swear fealty to us and after forming my army, take King's Landing from Joffrey! But on a serious note, there are indeed a lot of people here though that work on the "ground floor" who seem like they could handle more responsibilities. Our Third Bureaucrat may want to think of cleaning out some of those inactive rollback users and get a fresh new team.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:45, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I put emphasis on the last part because to me this wiki is all that matters in this discussion /shrug. I've been here since 2007 (Goddamn I'm old...seriously I didn't think it was that long T_T) and I've seen plenty of people pop up and say they want to be admins due to experience at other wikis. They never lasted.
 * Also the six I listed where listed due to administrative power. Except for Cerez, but he's been doing admin stuff for like a year now. LeafShinobi is an epic editor by all means, but I for the life of me can't remember when he has seriously contributed to the administrative side of things.
 * Also of note: I didn't take edit count into consideration. I'm more interested in what they did with their edits.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:46, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think rollback users can be choosen later by the new bureacrat —¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 10:53, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Cerez365

"Our Third Bureaucrat may want to think of cleaning out some of those inactive rollback users and get a fresh new team." That was generally the reason I requested a new bureaucrat and listed the wiki for adoption by someone. Apart from two of those rollback users, none of them continue or even visit this site any more. A new crat should really have been added a long time ago when Dantman became inactive imo. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:54, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. But I wanna have rollback powers too, if that's okay for you guys. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 10:58, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * @AboutEditCount: If edit count mattered as such, then every active editor here deserves to be admin. It cannot work like that, it would open a floodgate of people padding their edit counter with the desire to gain admin status. That's my issue with using an arbitrary number for such a important decision.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 10:55, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * True, but consideration of admin should take place when the user reaches a specified and private number at least. --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:56, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 10:58, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Just so you know. Dan was here at least two months ago. And he's also never been the type, from what I remember, and have seen to be an active day-to-day editor. He's more of the set framework and infrastructure for the wikia and have the editors actually have work to do, so I never expected anything outside of that. I also honestly don't think we need an army of Administrators, the goal here isn't to achieve sysop but to chronicle Naruto. In any case, one step at a time, no gun jumping etc... The Admins need to have their discussion.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:00, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I know. That's what sparked this, since last I heard if no bureaucrats are active for 2 months, the wiki is adoptable. We all know TranClan (whoever the hell he is) won't bother to turn up here and Dantman is more the technical side of things, so we need a crat that does the general running of the wiki. --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:02, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^^ This, and I wonder what happened to Snaps; been inactive for months. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 11:06, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * To be fair, that's what I've been doing since Dantman went MIA. When Dantman was active (as active as he could be) back in 2007 to about mid 2009 or so, he would log on and pretty much monitor what the wiki was doing, only stepping in when he really needed to, or there was technical things that needed to be done, pretty much letting the Wiki work on its own. When he went MIA I took over as the "silent observer" who maintained overall order, and when Simant arrived with his epic epic wiki code skills, pretty much took over the technical side.
 * That being said, we do need a buercrate and I still believe we need the administrative team to decide who among us that should be then the vote begins.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 11:08, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * When I meant "general running of the wiki" I meant like making sure there aren't any inactive staff and replacing them with newer staff, so that the staff is constantly revolving to the changes of people's lives and the fact some people have no further interest in Naruto (hint: Suki-sensei :P). There's little point having loads of staff when 3/4 of them have no interest in this wiki or Naruto. --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:12, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I see. But by the way, we will only have one crat? Or many this time? O_o —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 11:18, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Ideally two. That way it is unlikely both will go MIA at the same time.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:20, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, then the users should put up their votes if this will be respecting majority. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 11:23, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, having two is good —¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 11:27, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * If a crat would be inactive, then the then-crats should make a user promoted to crat. :) —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 11:31, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Now? —¤ S @lil ¤ Uchiha Symbol.svg (T@lk) 12:43, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Took forever to read through all of that. <("o_o)> Anywho, I too think edit count isn't something that action in regards to this can be solely taken on. It doesn't (to my knowledge) take into account edits that are undone. *Cerez ftw* Skitts (talk) 13:53, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I feel the need to point out rollback is almost worthless with the exception of mass vandals where you don't look at their individual edits and revert from recent changes. Anyone using rollback without viewing edits, is doing it wrong. When viewing edits you can revert to any revision through the history. — S im A nt 14:51, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I don't really think rollback is special. It's just the better version of the undo button. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 15:17, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * OMG! Dantman actually visited the wiki and he just gave me and Indxcv rollback! :O --Speysider (Talk Page) 15:49, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. The bossman sees you two as worthy for some responsibilities. Hail.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 15:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * i am so glad!:) —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 17:07, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

A little pointless...
Well this seams a little pointless.

Firstly, MIA? That doesn't fit. Missing in action only applies when you've done everything non-resource-intensive you can to locate the person. My email is listed on my userpage, if someone would have just sent an email earlier they'd see I'm still alive.

This wiki didn't have another user with a bureaucrat flag because it never needed one. The only thing a bureaucrat flag is needed for is for giving out sysop and rollback flags (well, and revoking them). Besides that it has absolutely no purpose. And I've always been available to tweak rights if someone pokes me properly. The only real reason to set up another bureaucrat flag would be if we had a lot of rights changes needed regularly and I wanted someone else to deal with them.

Now as for pokes. Wikia's notification system is broken. I do not get notifications when people edit my talkpage. If you want me to see a message you have to send me an email. I've had a message about it on my userpage all over Wikia for months but I guess people aren't going to get that fact without it also on my talkpage (which I didn't do because it requires editing over a dozen wikis to do that; the userpage message worked because my userpage is transcluded cross-wiki)

Now on to flags themselves. Firstly there is absolutely no point to removing flags. There is absolutely no harm to leaving a user with rollback rights when they're not around. It doesn't cost anything to the wiki (a single edit to this wiki uses up 1000x the data that a rights flag does). There is no limit to the number of flags. And there is absolutely no harm in an inactive user becoming active again with a rollback flag still intact.

And promotion. For sysop, that's only given out when the wiki has a use for it, never on request. For example if a user is continually helping out the wiki marking spam pages for deletion. And a sysop keeps deleting the pages tagged for deletion. If the sysop notices that all the pages the user tags for deletion are in fact deserving of deletion, the user seems to know the wiki's rules, and the user is doing so much that it would be helpful to let them skip the whole deletion request process; then that's a reason to give the user a sysop flag (iirc, this is how SimAnt got his sysop flag). Basically sysop flags are only given out when the existing sysops feel that there are too many things that only they can do and they see that there is a user who seems like they could handle a sysop flag responsibly.

As for rollback. That's trivial. Anyone who's been doing spam cleanup and could use a faster rollback button can request that. But request is the key, besides the two requests I didn't see because of Wikia's broken notification system I haven't seen anyone asking for it. Honestly, rollback is so trivial that on other wikis I give sysops (and sometimes even rollbackers themselves) the right to promote other users to rollback. Wikia just doesn't have that option. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 16:20, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Warning this response will be peppered with as much dragon tongue as I can resasonbly place, for I have finally beaten Skyrim.
 * Anyway, there you have it. Our Kinbok, Leader, has not been MIA as I previously thought, but simply unreachable due to faulty code and our ignorance in actually contacting him. Now that it's clear that het, here, this entire discussion now is now completely pointless! Morokei Lovass!
 * The mistakes of not e-mailing you will not be repeated, I assure you of that but I think we can all agree we can put this little issue to bed, geh?--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 16:32, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Aye. I never thought he was MIA to begin with either way, and I was aware of the emailing bit (though I never had a need to contact him) but they made it seem as though we had to have a bureaucrat here every waking moment. I guess everyone is satisfied now though, so onward! God's speed and God save the Queen and such!--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:37, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised Dantman appeared. Everything is back to normal! —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 16:57, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Dantman, I can see why you think you don't need another crat, but you've just pointed out the reasons that another crat should be added. You have a broken notifications system, which means it can take ages for a response. While you have an email, how are you supposed to see the messages if your email box is most likely filled with a lot of spam ? For example, it's taken nearly a year (maybe less) just for me to be able to get the rollback status. I don't see a point either to keeping flags on users when they haven't visited the wiki for a year, as it's blatantly obvious they have no interest in this site any more and it seems pointless having a load of staff with only small numbers being active. My opinion is that there should be just one extra bureaucrat. For a wiki as large and as active as Narutopedia, one crat who is very hard to get ahold of is just not going to cut it imo. A new user trying to find a staff is going to be severely put off if he looks at the list of admins to find a huge list of admins that don't visit here anymore. Inactive staff should generally be removed from the wiki if they don't visit after some length of time. --Speysider (Talk Page) 17:02, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * My inbox is perfectly fine. My antispam is extremely good. And I continually check it. The argument is moot anyways. The notification system itself works using email, so the only difference is you're sending an email directly to me instead of expecting the notification system to do it for you. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 17:10, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I saw your userpage too. I should have tried to email you. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 17:30, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Even so, my point still stands that you are only active here once every 2 months (I think) so it means obtaining rights means having to wait a while for a response. Having an extra crat at least means that if you aren't around, there's someone else available to give the rights needed. --Speysider (Talk Page) 17:57, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I'm active here whenever someone pokes me. Just poke me and it should happen within a day. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 18:16, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Lol. Any thoughts here? Is this still on? Or the discussion just died? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 18:26, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Viral rollback
I got Wikia to change the rights configuration here.
 * sysop can now add and remove the rollback right from any user
 * rollback can now add rollback to any user

Basically now this means rollback users can add other rollback users. And sysops can revoke it from anyone that abuses it. And can also revoke rollback (and hence the right to give other users rollback) from anyone seen re-promoting users who have abused rollback. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 03:39, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Dantman. =) Off topic for this thread, but has anyone gotten to work on implementing that new homepage design that that one user added but it was reverted to allow discussion? Skitts (talk) 03:59, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's amazing. I didn't know Wikia can actually do that. - White Flash - (Talk) - 04:12, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool dantman! —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 10:10, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, this is here. So it won't be awkward, me explaining stuff o.o I still feel compelled to give a bit of a warning though. Though this is good for the Wikia that there's a bit more flexibility (not too sure about the rollbacks giving that status to other users bit), I think it needs to be assessed who exactly gets these rights because it's an easy one to abuse out of ignorance. Persons that undo vandalism a great deal and have a grasp on what the wiki considers to be such should be given that flag. So I believe they should have been members here for a goof while, but of course that's entirely up to the Admin team.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:36, May 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * 2 things here Cerez, 1.) you said goof while, which caused me to laugh, and 2.) I do agree with what you said and all but how exactly could someone abuse this? I can't think of any except if someone started doing rollbacks out of spite for someone. Care to explain please? Joshbl56  17:42, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Example, rollbackers would make undeserving ones rollback too. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 17:49, May 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Say you make an edit and I think "no, it doesn't work like that" Now you're actually right but instead of talking about it, I revert your edit or vice versa (which doesn't show up in the normal feeds). The function might also become a substitute for the undo button so instead of getting to explain why you undid it, it's just done. Which is why I said persons that look like they understand undoing should use it. But then again, I'm a conspiracy theorist and all.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:57, May 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Both fine answer so I think I'm quite satisfied with them. Thank you for explaining it cerez but I guess I usually give people on here the benefit of the doubt when it comes to editing. Joshbl56  18:01, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Wow. Real life gets in my wiki editing for three days, so much happens. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:36, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ground 0 feeling? Lol --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:48, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * sometimes, i use the undo button when it needs explanation. You have a point Cerez-senpai, that could happen. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 02:13, May 24, 2012 (UTC)