Talk:Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique

Parent
Shouldn't say that his parent jutsu is Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique ?????
 * I'm not sure. The techniques don't seem similar enough in the way they work or in the effect they create. Skitts (talk) 09:23, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's seems to me that he has eyes of a dragon ,and the same effect just smaller ,the great dragon has a body of sanke,a head of dragon,it's bigger and has the same user,for me its enough ,what do you think?
 * Going from the names you could assume it'd be the parent technique, but as Skitts said they really don't look or operate in a similar manner which most of the times is what is used to determine parent techniques (at least that's what I do). So I'm not to sure either.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:21, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah,but what do you mean when you say it's operate different?
 * The Dragon-Fire technique has to run on a string and has no definitive shape; it just looks like fire. While this one takes on a shape. That's what I mean by you can't really tell if it's the parent technique.-- Also, remember to sign your posts using four tildes (~) or the signature button.Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:14, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

not necesarly,in the manga don't need those,and the wire strings has been used ,to capture the enemy,when perform this jutsu,and i'm new on this wiki i don't know how tu use what you tell me.
 * I really don't understand what you're saying there. Sasuke did use strings to run the fire along in the manga.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:45, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

look at the trivia of the technique!
 * The trivia points say that in the anime and ova string wasn't used. However in the manga, the one time it was used, it ran along the wire. It wasn't even that brilliant as the image in the infobox makes it out to be. Simply I think they look too different to say definitively that it's the parent technique even though the names sound like one was derived from the other.Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:41, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes but amaterasu ,tsukuyiomi, look very different from susano,and they are derivated --Emanuel7 (talk) 15:05, January 10, 2012 (UTC)emanuel7
 * Because it was stated that you need those two technique to manifest Susanoo. Here we were told nothing.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:07, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes,but they has the same user,and we don't always know if the condcutor is necesarly maybe the user did this to not miss the enemy,and they have the same user and name!!--Emanuel7 (talk) 17:24, January 10, 2012 (UTC)emanuel7
 * But that's just it. As I said before I personally think that there's anything besides a name linking them. Though that might be enough to list it as such. I'm not opposed to it being lined as the parent technique, but you'll have to get the opinion of the rest of the community before anything can be done.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:36, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Madara Uchiha a User really?
Where has Madara Uchiha been shown to use this tech? He only used a similar jutsu (Fire Release: Dragon Flame Release Song Technique). --Elven Windsword (talk) 20:37, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Wanted to ask the same question O_o--Elveonora (talk) 22:31, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Yea I was surprised that no one else brought this point up. But anyway I say we should delete Madara as a user of this jutsu until it is proven in the manga otherwise. --Elven Windsword (talk) 22:43, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Can someone explain it to me? ...--Elveonora (talk) 12:56, June 28, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see much of a problem in listing Madara as a user. His technique is quite obviously a stronger version of this, meaning this would be its parent technique. Madara is, in my opinion, certainly a user of this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:14, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

That makes no sense Omni, he never used it. How are you so sure he can perform this technique? It could be Sasuke that invented it ... so now how about I go, and create articles for Wind Release: Rasen-Kunai cause I'm certain it's possible 0_o ... never used or was never implied to be a user = not listed. So should we list Izanagi and Izanami as a techniques Sage has used just cause 1 or both are delivered from Creation of all things he could use? ...--Elveonora (talk) 05:38, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Izanagi and Izanami are sibling techniques, but as far as the manga has explained, they weren't created together. Izanami was said to have been created as a way to punish those who abused Izanagi. And Izanagi only applies the same principle as Creation of All Things, they're much more like Tailed Beast Ball and Rasengan than Great Dragon Fire and Madara's technique. Madara's technique is essentially shooting five dragon heads at once instead of one at a time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:25, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

We may always assume that he can do it, but there's still a possibility that Sasuke's version is a "recent" creation, but that's less important ... shooting 5 smaller dragons logically allows that he should be able to shoot a single bigger head (it's the same technique, just different level of shape manipulation), but no usage or mention of usage = no reason to put it there. Maybe now I won't put the best comparison, but it sounds like adding Hashirama as a user of Multiple Shadow Clone technique just cause it was written on a scroll he had in possession. BUT I'm open for a compromise because the way you put it makes some sense ... if Konohamaru has had used a Giant Ball Rasengan, an ordinary Rasengan would be put to his infobox automatically I guess. But in Madara/Sasuke's case we must take into consideration a possible "fate/coincidence" factor that's at play :P Simply if people are all pro for it to being there, so be it ... I will survive that, somehow 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 19:11, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Why is Madara listed as a user again?--Elveonora (talk) 01:52, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Because Dragon Flame Release Song is this technique used five times at once. The dragons look exactly the same. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:08, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Again, that's no proof they are related. Sasuke's version appears like something developed by himself... Madara was revived by Kabuto and they are yet to meet eyes to eyes with Sasuke, so how could have Sasuke use a technique apparently delivered from Madara's, the latter whose he never heard of. That's a weird logic, we don't know which came first, but likely Madara's cause as I said, Sasuke's appears to be his own. Thus that's kinda like listing multi shadow clones to a shadow clone user, with: "I bet he can create more" logic. Also this isn't "Susanoo, thus Tsukuyami and Amaterasu as well" case--Elveonora (talk) 02:28, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with when each technique was developed, it has to do with their functionality. The dragon heads look identical. If the argument was adding Sasuke as a user to Dragon Flame Release Song, then you'd have a point, but this isn't the case of adding a multiple version to someone who can use an individual version, it's adding an individual version to someone who can use the multiple version. What you're arguing for is the equivalent of not adding the shadow clone technique to someone who can use the multiple shadow clone technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:05, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, you are the boss. I just don't get it... just because Madara uses multiple smaller dragon heads doesn't automatically mean that he can do less of them but a larger scale version... and even if "obviously" he can, we can't simply assume as such since he has to use it first in order for it to be listed. Also logically, Madara's version is the parent technique to Sasuke's, not in reverse, since Madara did learn it long before Sasuke was born, unless I misunderstand the meaning of "parent technique" I don't want to argue for the sake of angering you, so if there's not a good anti-argument enough that I could use, I leave it be for now--Elveonora (talk) 03:49, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

I looked up and found a similar situation. Let's try like this: considering that chronologically, DFRS came first, GDF gets listed as a derived technique of that, and stays as such as long as the manga doesn't say it came before DFRS. Sasuke remains GDF and Madara remains DFRS, similar to how Hinata is listed as using Eight Trigrams Thirty Two Palms, which is a derived of Sixty Four Palms, not in power, but in concept, hence why Hinata isn't listed as a manga or anime user. Not a fan of using an anime interpretation for manga stuff, but it did set precedent. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:29, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

"loves Omni sensei" yes, please, edit it accordingly--Elveonora (talk) 04:43, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Shots
In the description, it says a genunine fire dragon. But, sasuke fires 4 dragons into the sky. I was wondering if he used it three times or just shot 4 dragons into the sky using this jutsu --Aeonophic (talk) 14:12, August 3, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic.

Yup, comfirmed it was 4.--Aeonophic (talk) 15:29, August 3, 2012 (UTC)Aeonophic

We don't know if he did use it three times or not so i guess it's more safe and convinient to just say that it's a genunine fire dragon.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 11:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

What would be the purpose of this if he fired four of them using this technique once? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:55, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Sasuke probably shot them sequentially. Madara's technique looks like it's simultaneously. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:33, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Great Dragon Flame Jutsu
ok so I was thinking of renaming the English tv Version Great Dragon Flame Jutsu so as not to be confused with the other Dragon Flame Jutsu. I wonder why the Anime would name 2 completely different Jutsu the Exact Same Name (English Anime Only) there needs to be some form of difference between the 2's Anime Names thats why I am proposing this (either that or have like a "if you were looking for the other technique known as Dragon Flame Jutsu click this Link") its way too confusing even for a seasoned Naruto Fan and Semi-Expert such as myself. plus renaming it Great Dragon Flame Jutsu would fit with its nameing scheme (as all the other names of it have Great Dragon or Great Flame something). just a thought it would make it a lot less confusing (especially for the newcomers to the site and series) and make the site that much better. Lordofninjas1 (talk) 03:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * We use the literal translations for the articles, and we list the English tv names we're given, no matter what they are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:55, March 25, 2013 (UTC)