Talk:Tailed Beast Ball

MERGE OR DELETE!
Why the heck are there seperate articles for each level of the menacing ball? MERGE OR DELETE! 74.236.92.133 (talk) 23:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if I am correct about it's intention, it was made to follow the same properties of the category jutsu pages (such as Ninjutsu, Senjutsu, ect). That's really the only reason why this page survived the week it was made.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Jutsu
I only listed it as a Tailed Beast Skill which it is and technically, it is the Tailed Beasts Skills article that should be categorized as a jutsu type.
 * It is a jutsu type, as in a type of jutsu, not a jutsu itself, since nobody actually uses "menacing ball." Simant (talk) 22:30, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Think of this like a disambiguation page, such as Eight Trigrams or Red Secret Technique. ~SnapperTo 23:52, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

What about Tailed Beasts Skills? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Menacing Ball isn't a Tailed Beast Skill? User:Atrulean Starkiller November 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Menacing Ball is basically a subtype of Tailed Beast Skill. Tailed Beast Skill encompasses all things that are unique to the tailed beast, with Menacing Ball being subtype of the super thing. Or because...Snapper mentioned put it's basically a disambiguation.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:13, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

All right, I guess you made your point so I won't categorize it as a jutsu. User:Atrulean Starkiller November 17, 2009

Nine
I'm indifferent to combining all the menacing balls into one article, but I do think they should be split just by beast, not beast and tail-count. The demon fox, with 497 out, now has four iterations of the same thing. Overkill much? ~SnapperTo 23:33, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know what. The hell with it. Give me one moment.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:35, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would that suffice?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:52, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think so. Where did the name for the Four-Tailed version of this came from? I just looked through ShounenSuki's translations, and that wasn't a jutsu listed in the databook. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:54, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ultimate Ninja 4--Deva 27 (talk) 23:56, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That explains it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:56, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that it matters anymore anyway. I will let common sense rule the day today, giving that the only thing different is the letters/kanji/whatever before "ki Imari", the name I put here will suffice.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:58, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Following that logic, should the Two and Three Tailed beasts have their species added to the technique they use? They ones with elements in it, or should they simply be changed to "Two-Tailed Cat Menacing Ball" and "Three-Tailed Turtle Menacing Ball"? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:03, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't matter in the long run I suppose.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:05, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Bomb
I want to make sure that, The Translators got this Right, Is it really called Tailed beast Bomb or is it just Menacing Ball?

Come on guys it clearly says bomb in the chapter.

According to wikipedia (and they usually have correct chapter names), this chapter's name is written in kanji as 尾獣玉, which according to them translates to Tailed Beast Ball. The 尾獣 is a given, and the 玉 is the same used in Danzō's Wind Release techniques and in Sasori's Akatsuki ring. It can be translated both as "ball" and "sphere", if I'm not mistaken. I would rather use sphere, but I can live with ball. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:51, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oh thanks for clearing that up. So the translator just used "bomb" to make it sound "cooler"?

Sort of. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Merge
Since we know the name of it now, can we simply merge all the "menacing ball" pages here? All we need is to put an infobox here and string together the information from the other pages. Also, since the Eight-Tails said this is the ultimate attack of a tailed beast, should all of them be listed as users? Not sure if that would include the Ten-Tails, but definitely one through nine. I believe Bee and Yugito should also be listed, since they were shown to willingly transform and use the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:06, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:48, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, but I wouldn't add the Ten-Tails yet. It is not really a tailed beast, after all. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:27, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done, and redirected the other menacing ball pages here. Reply here if something isn't right. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:14, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should Naruto be placed here, Since he was able to use this Technique or Minor Version of it, In his 4/6 Tails Mode? UchihaSakudo (talk) 23:40, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nine-Tails was in control, not him, this is why before the actual name came up, only the Nine-Tails was listed as a user in the technique article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:59, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, He also Kinda did this, In his Controlled Chakra Form, He tried to use the Rasengan, but Instead it turned into a Different Version of this Technique, Even Killer Bee said, It was like the Same thing UchihaSakudo (talk) 00:11, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Similar ≠ the same and the Rasengan failed. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:14, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, You got me There, Though it was a Tailed Beast Ball Rasengan, That makes it a Rasengan and a Tailed Beast Ball, Doesn't it? Even If it Failed, He still did it UchihaSakudo (talk) 00:23, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * For a jinchūriki, I understand performing a Tailed Beast Ball as turning into the Tailed Beast while maintaining control over it and then using the technique. Eight-Tails said it itself that you can't use it if you're not fully transformed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:28, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Throwing this thought out there: All the beasts can use this, but the technique we have seen them use are descendants of this technique. Then haven't we killed jutsu pages? S im A nt 00:50, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Forgive me Simant, but I'm stupid today. uh, what?--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 00:52, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I forgot the word "if". "if the techniques we have seen them use so far". Fire/Water/Wind/Ink is not the black and white this technique describes. S im A nt 01:21, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * A none issue, in my opinion. Before Kishimoto decided to make them these, the Menacing Balls (I prefer this. Sounds more...well, Demon)where raw chakra fired. The anime simply followed suit. in my opinion, all that's changed now is that the Menacing Fire and Menacing Water Balls mixed elemental chakra with the yin-yang.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 01:30, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Simant; One's wind, Two's flames, and Three's water do not fit the definition of this ability. ~SnapperTo 02:35, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for jumping in, so now the separate Nine-tails and eight-tails menacing Ball pages have been taken down and info has been merged, correct? Questionaredude (talk) 03:56, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * @SimAnt: At first glance, I would agree with you, but I took a closer look at the Hachibi's Bijūdama and it also seems to be elemental. Electric to be exact. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:12, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That swirly thing that appears just before he releases it? Considering how elemental the Two-Tails' version looked, I don't think that would really count as electricity. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't remember that having the electricity sound effect. ~SnapperTo 23:41, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well there's so many possibilities we can't really make a good conclusion right now... but seeing how Yugito did change into her full form before she used the fireball thing, it's probably related at least. Seeing how the Two-Tails is entirely covered in fire, maybe that's what its chakra looks like and it does have black or white properties, only invisible due to the chakra's fiery form? --GoDai (talk) 23:57, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Hachibi's bijūdama is clearly different from the Kyūbi's and has a distinctly electricity-looking effect around it. This cannot just be ignored. The carvings in the temple on the Island Turtle showed the Nibi and Hachibi doing their bijūdama and the Nibi' did have flames around it. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:18, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * So does that mean we'll have to make a elemental child for every version of the tailed beast ball, or is it enough to list each tailed beast adds its own twist to it? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Given the many uncertainties surrounding this technique, I'd keep it all in one article. At least for now. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:35, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Is the convoluted listing of Fire Release and Water Release in the infobox really required? Usually when there are variations of a technique, they're left out of the infobox and explained in the article, that's what we did with Lariat. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I continue to question the wisdom of forcing two anime techniques into a manga definition. They are not TBBs. ~SnapperTo 18:30, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically, the technique Yugito used while transformed is a manga technique, which further complicates the matter. I know it's still a while away, but the fourth databook can not come soon enough. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Two-Tails
I know that Two-Tails can perform Tailed Beast Ball, but I don't know if the attack which it used against Hidan and Kakuzu were a Tailed Beast Ball. Maybe it was a simple fire projectile, something as Wind Release: Drilling Air Bullet?--LeafShinobi (talk) 20:30, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed on two-tails AND three-tails, since they contain elemental chakra--Gojita (talk) 22:53, December 6, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
 * So we say those are simply tailed beast ball-like attacks, just like Drilling Air Bullet? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the Biju have abilities other than Bijudama, but those three definitely don't seem to fit the standard for this attack. The Eight Tails mentioned that it involves Shape Manipulation, but mentioned nothing of Nature Manipulation. I'd recommend calling those "Two-Tails Fire Ball" and "Three-Tails Water Ball," or something along those lines. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  01:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought about technique's shape.--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:32, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright lets try to get some arguments and facts highlighted Also could we please get this discusssion back on track or see some action on recreating the pages, since there appear to be no heavy arguments against it?. --Gojita (talk) 20:35, December 21, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
 * Killer Bee have stated that it rquires a 8:2 chakra ratio to create
 * This fits with how Killer Bee and the Nine-Tails have created the attack so far, BUT
 * I doubt(sorry if it is to speculative) that elemental chakra attacks fit with this 8:2 ratio.

Nine-Tails Trivia?
Could someone put a trivia saying about how the Nine-Tails charges his Beast Ball? (The bubble technique or whatever it was called in the old article) Questionaredude (talk) 01:18, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ratio
As a math person, it bothers me every time I see "8:2 ratio." It is more proper to write it as "4:1" in its reduced form. However, I do recognize that this is harder to visualize, so I suggest saying "80% black and 20% white" or something of the sort. Is this just me?

Speaking of ratio... shouldn't this skill be classified as yin-yang release? Black symbolizes the spiritual (yin) part of Chakra and White the physical (yang) one, right? 212.205.3.48 (talk) 00:43, February 23, 2011 (UTC)ChrisD

The problem is that Naruto only has the Yang chakra of the nine-tails so unless he is using his own yin chakra to supplant the lack of yin, we can't say till more info comes out. Besides why would Kishi call them black and white? The terms Yin and Yang seems to be used more frequently and should be the default names now. Perhaps to avoid having to reveal more about them earlier than he planned? While I agree its Yin and Yang we will have to wait for more info.Umishiru (talk) 00:51, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Also, we can't put "80% black and 20% white" because the manga didn't state it like that. It was stated "8:2 ratio" so it stays like that. And just because Kishi said they were black and white, doesn't mean they are yin-yang. Unless it's said in manga, anime or databook, it's all speculation. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 03:29, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Naruto listed as a user.
If we are to consider Bee a user of this then shouldn't Naruto be listed as weel. Considering he used it when in his four-tail form?


 * From 4-8 tails Naruto is not in control of his body, the Nine-Tails was. Thus, Naruto has never used the Ball.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 03:33, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

sigh
Re: this

An encyclopedia reports the facts, it does not interpret them. What is a fact? The ball shrinks between when it first hits the barrier and when it punches through the other side. What are interpretations? That: Naruto is somehow responsible; the ball loses power for each of the 36 layers it goes through. Which of these two is suitable for any article on the wiki? Neither. Problem solved. ~SnapperTo 06:52, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yin and Yang
Is the positive white chakra yin or yang chakra and the black chakra yin or yang chakra? Could this be a plausible theory? if so, then how come the Kyuubi can do it, even if it has no yin chakra anymore?--70.94.202.27 (talk) 04:12, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

It is actually the Black Chakra that is positive and the white is negative. I don't think this negative/positive chakra has anything to do with the yin/yang chakra. It seems to be a trait of the tailed beasts' chakra, as of now.--Alastar 89 (talk) 04:56, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Shukaku variant
In naruto ultimate ninja storm 2, when shukaku uses the tailed beast bomb, should we call it something different other than a regular tailed beast bomb, since it mixes sand and chakra, not the black and white?--70.94.202.27 (talk) 04:16, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Could you get a video from Youtube or something, that would help. If it is what you say it looks like, you can just put that piece of info in the trivia section of the tailed beast ball article but I would like to see a video of the tailed beast ball. --Alastar 89 (talk) 05:03, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, just loook up something like Naruto shippuuden ultimate ninja storm 2 gaara vs deidara, it'll be at the end.

Considering he is not a Jinchūriki (at the point in the story, even in the game), I don't think its possible for him to even perform the Tailed Beast Ball. -- Hohenheim Talk to Me ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 01:41, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

What are you talking about, yes he is.--70.94.202.27 (talk) 02:24, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hohenheim, I believe they are talking about the One-Tailed Shukaku, not Shikaku Nara.  ~ Fmakck© (Images 02:29, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * My mistake, I forgot that Gaara still has his Bijū. Had a lapse there :P, but yea. It's not a mix of sand and chakra in the video, it looks like the sand-face of the Shukaku simply took shape around where Gaara fired the Tailed Beast Ball from. -- Hohenheim Talk to Me ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 03:08, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Four-Tailed Picture
If we usually use pictures of jutsu/characters when they are first introduced, why aren't we using Naruto in Four-Tailed form charging/firing the Beast Ball instead? Questionaredude (talk) 19:03, July 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it's not the true one. It's not a fully charged one, unlike the Eight-Tails' when we first saw it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Destructive Force
How could we scale the difference between the tailed beast balls and their respective users? The 8-tails biju bomb didn't look that much more powerful than Naruto's 4 tailed ball. If that's the case, then how could we find out just how powerful a full tailed beast ball from the nine tails really is? I read an interesting post somewhere, where a guy did the math and this is what he came up with.

"In the fight against orochimaru, Naruto's 4 tailed beast ball was approximately 4 in. in diameter at full density. The volume of it was 33.5103 in3. It was enough to wipe out about 50 cubic kilometers. The incomplete tailed beast ball at average density in 6 tails against pain was about 30.48 cm diameter (notice it is in centimeters). Using proportions and comparing density, it would be about 3.39 cm in diameter at full density. It was enough to recreate the Shinra Tensei crater (which is about the size of New York City). The volume of the ball would be about 20.34 cm3 but it destroyed 937743144.7 km3. That means for every cubic centimeter of tailed beast ball, 4610702635000 centimeters were wiped out. And that is just six tails! Alright, so trying to establish the exponential difference in power between 4 tails and six tails, i went easy and decided to do it multiplicitavely instead. So at that rate, a full tailed beast ball while the 9 tailed fox is at >25% power would have a ratio of 1 cubic centimeter of super chakra would destroy a whopping 542,834,590,700,000,000,000 cubic centimeters!. In the chapter where Naruto beats up the 9-tails, it forms a tailed beast ball about 500 meters in diameter. at less than a quarter of its full strength, that ball would have a volume of 65449846.95 meters cubed. With the above ratio for destruction, that would be enough to destroy the Earth... 32,799,217950,000 times. And remember, the nine tails is at 1/4 strength and this is not exponentiallly. If it was, it would be much more than that. Plus considering the tailed beast ball only involves the digestive tract, the whole embodiment would turn the whole nine tails into one massive blast. Don't even get me started on the 10-tailed beast. You might be saying, "Why is he at 1/4 power? Whats up with that?" Remember that the 4th Hokage only sealed half the 9-tails chakra into Naruto. Plus, when the 9-tails formed the ball against Naruto, He already had most of its chakra, which means he had over half of half of its chakra. The only reason the whole ninja world wasn't destroyed when the 9-tails was free is because of the most powerful jutsu in the Narutoverse...........Plot no jutsu!!!!!!!!! It would make for a bad story if everyone died before the manga even took off, so Kishi had to nerf the tailed beast ball QUITE a bit."

It seems to make sense. I honestly doubt Kishi is gonna be writing all of these equations just to be consistent, but if Naruto's six tailed, incomplete beast ball was enough to fill up the Shinra Tensei crater, (which was about as big as the leaf village) then I have a feeling that the COLLOSSAL, GINORMOUS, MASSIVE, (insert another 50 adjectives here) tailed beast ball that the Nine-tails was getting ready to perform in Naruto's face as he was sealing it's chakra away would leave quite a crater.