Talk:Kamui

''' For previous discussions about this technique, see Talk:Space–Time Migration. '''

Similar to Madara
Very similar to Madara uchicha's technique but on a lower level.
 * Not necessarily the same technquine, speculative to say anything other than they're both space-time ninjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:39, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Reply: I also noted that, i think there's a relaton between those techniques, remember that tobi told him once not to bother using it against him. There are just two facts of why he told him that... the technique is similar to the one he uses or he just as a sharingan usar knows how to avoid it.

loss of eyesight
does kakashi suffer the same side affect of using the mangekyou sharingan? does he gradually lose his eyesight? 75.2.217.57 (talk) 07:46, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Third Databook translation by ShounenSuki, 'The "Mangekyou Sharingan" is a doujutsu that, with continuous usage, burdens the user with the loss of their eyesight. Since this is the source of "Kamui," using it in rapid succession puts Kakashi's body at risk as well.' So maybe he *is* losing his eyesight, it's just that his character isn't as dramatic as Sasuke's or Itachi's so Kishimoto doesn't emphasize this. --Kiadony (talk) 11:33, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * That, OR Kakashi, by having received his sharingan eye from Obito, instead of it being his own eye since he was born, got him a different form of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, without it having any "greater" powers, like Madara's, but still keeping his vision when using the Mangekyo Sharingan techniques. Bruxacosmica Talk 21:42, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Name
When was this technique named in the mange? I've only read the Viz translations, so did it get left out? Or was it in a databook?--Enoki911 (talk) 05:57, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Third databook.Saimaroimaru (talk) 07:09, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Third databook
Third databook (kamui entry) says "If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked" (link). Shouldnt it be mentioned in article? Honza8D (talk)


 * I would think so. I'll add it to the trivia, and if anyone finds anything wrong with it, they can remove it. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 15:09, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

That was stated in the context of Kakashi learning the technique.NoJutsu (talk) 20:43, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Barrier?
Doesn't this technique just collapse a point in space that Kakashi focuses on? Where did it say he creates a barrier? Does it mean he creates a barrier around his targeted object and then have the barrier teleport away? Is that what it means? Yatanogarasu 08:33, January 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * User:ShounenSuki/Third Databook Translations. ~SnapperTo 08:43, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * So should it be classified as Kekkai Ninjutsu?--LeafShinobi (talk) 19:50, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I understand from the translation a barrier is created then Kamui takes effect in that area. So i suppose it is a kekkai ninjutsu--Cerez365 (talk) 20:38, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Where does this move come in Ultimate ninja 5? EzioLover (talk) 23:15, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't the barrier just limiting the area of effect of Kamui? It's not like it restricts things from entering/exiting it unlike all of the other Barriers. Skitts (talk) 23:20, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi
Tobi can use this too.
 * It was being discussed here. 08:19, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Template
The template is f***ing up, but I have no idea how to fix it. Can someone familiar with the code look at it? 01:47, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I cant see anything wrong with it. Maybe it was fixed before I am posting this. 03:31, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * 04:43, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * But its alright now, right? 04:59, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

infoboxs don't display correctly in monobook so you have to switch to wiki's skin.

Why Only One Aspect Can Be Used At Once
Tobi can't remain "intangible" while absorbing something, otherwise the object will still collide into him in the other dimension, no? Is that too much of a stretch of speculation? He either sends himself or the object, but not both, because that's pointless. I was thinking that this was part of Kakashi's reasoning for realizing that the two techniques were both the same technique, but too much speculation? --GoDai (talk) 01:19, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

No idea, but welcome back GoDai ;D people are still confused with the whole Konan/Kakashi explanations--Elveonora (talk) 01:42, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Because if his entire body is in the other dimension he can't absorb things that are outside the other dimension, so his intangible image can't absorb stuff because he is actually existing in the other dimension. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 12:21, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

New Information
Madara implied that Obito phased through the rocks. He says "I don't know how that rock didn't crush you. It's almost as if you were able to slip away from it...". I don't think we can safely say that Tobi's technique is Mangekyo Sharingan unique. I think we should change it back to the normal sharingan until we have absolute proof it is unique to MS or even the fully mature Sharingan. Skarrj (talk) 10:42, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Traumatic experiences tend to awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

His sharingan wasn't fully matured, he couldn't have awoken it. Skarrj (talk)

As far as I can see, nothing on this wiki says that the Sharingan needs to be at the 3 tomoe stage to evolve, it's unlikely that it's awoken at that point since everyone else needed to feel the pain of a loved one dying or killing them yourself, we've seen Obito using his teleporting ability with just the sharingan.TricksterKing (talk) 11:13, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

He might have used Earth Release to phase or something, and if it was Kamui, then he might have felt a loss of close ones as he was about to "die" also unless there's a reference for that, where's a proof that a Sharingan needs to me 3 tomoe in order to be able to unlock Mangekyou?? What if a 1-2 tomoe kills his best friend/relative?--Elveonora (talk) 22:50, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Since we now know Obito awakened his Mangekyō Sharingan when he witnessed Rin die how did he "slip away" from the rock? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 12:23, October 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't know... Madara was just making an assumption of what happened.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:33, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Derived Jutsu mentioned twice
On the Infobar, the Fire Release Jutsu is mentioned twice. It might just be a glitch, rather than human error, though... --ScruffyC (talk) 06:34, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:02, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

A Suspension Bridge to Peace (episode)
In the episode A Suspension Bridge to Peace obito is seen using kamui with normal sharingan? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 00:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is a clip of him doing that with an ordinary Sharingan in the anime, but in the manga chapters for the same fight, it is not present, meaning that is anime-only occurrence. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:49, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not exactly true. There is a distinct close-up panel of Tobi utilizing Kamui during his battle with Konan, but there is no visible Sharingan design nor pupil at all. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 01:46, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 606
From Chapter 606 it seems kamui is activated whenever obito's mangekyō is activated so instead of obito activating the mangekyō then activating kamui when he activates the mangekyō kamui activates instantaneously I think this because he tried to touch rin and at first phased through her... and I don't think he had the intention of phasing through her only to touch her. So my conclusion is whenever the mangekyō is activated kamui is activated and he is solid until something something is hitting him in which it phases through in instead I don't think he chooses when to activate kamui and when to deactivate it. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 12:32, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * That would mean that Obito's body is constantly existing in another world, which I don't think is accurate. It would appear that it's simply because he just developed his abilities, he was unable to control the phasing. That, and the fact that Kishimoto did it for "dramatics".--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:43, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

No I mean the jutsu is activated at the same time as the mangekyō but he is solid... until something hits him he instead phases through it... so activated but solid when nothing is through him --82.39.201.72 (talk) 13:03, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * If that were the case, he wouldn't have been able to kill all those Kiri-nin as his Mangekyo was activated the entire time. What we saw was, when no longer in a fit of rage, he didn't have full control of the phasing.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:57, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction
Okay, so he has to have his whole body solid in order to attack, right? But when he defends, he can send a part of his body and still remain solid? We know that he's still in the real dimension, as we can see him, and the part that overlaps is the part that is gone? Isn't this a contradiction? Also, when he transports himself, doesn't he have to become solid to go to the other dimension ,why doesn't he just do it the faster way, like when he encountered naruto's tailed beast ball?--Asian711 (talk) 20:50, October 24, 2012 (UTC)

It all sounds weird, we will need a databook to clarify more, same for Izanagi. Kishi isn't good when it comes to explanations--Elveonora (talk) 22:05, October 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think that the explanations are very simple and logical, but offcourse are just suppositions until a confirmation from the databook or the manga. About the first question: Obito's kamui probably is able to teleport in the other dimensions every part of his body just in the moment that is overlapped by something of solid in the Earth's dimension. Probably Obito can just activate or not the jutsu, but he hasn't no direct control on what part of his body "make intangible".


 * About the second question, Obito's "intagibility" permits him to transfer in the other dimensions the part of his body that comes in contact with something, but just until the contact continue. Probably he is unable to stay in the other dimensions, but he must necessarily "return" to the Earth's dimension, in the exact point where he was when he became intangible. Contrarily, when he teleport himself ("soliding himself") the process is more slow, but he is able to remain in the other dimension, and overall the advantage is that he can then teleport himself in what point of the Earth he want (without return in the same from where he disappeared). When he travel from a point A to a point C of the world (for example from the forest where was present the Konoha's squad of 8 people to the place of Sasuke's battle with Itachi), seems likely that actually he telport himself before to a point B present in the other dimensions, and just from there he goes to the point C on the Earth.--JK88 (talk) 22:28, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

He has two states, Intangible and Tangible. When in the Intangible state he will phase through anything that touches him. Even if he is the one touching the object. Lets say he is phasing through a punch, he can't counter while phasing because IF he did, his fist would phase through the person unless he released the intangible state. Get it? He can't choose to selectively phase. While in the state he doesnt have to be in the Other Dimension but will be warped there on contact with something physical. It's complicated. But by looking at when Guy used the roundhouse kick against him while he was trying to grab naruto, it's easy to see. He phases through Naruto because his whole body was in the tangible state despite him just doing so to phase the kick aimed at his head. Skarrj (talk) 15:38, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nice work Skarrj with that example of Naruto and Gai, you have found an evidence to my assumptions. Tobi can decide what part of his body selectively phase.--JK88 (talk) 16:54, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * You mean he CANNOT. Either he's completely solid, or completely impervious. While he's in the impervious mode, any object that will come in contact with his body will phase through it, while the body part being phased through will be made manifest in the other dimension. Obito cannot have his head in impervious mode, but arms in solid mode, for example. Xfing (talk) 18:01, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi's Usage
Kakashi has now seemingly demonstrated use of Obito's variation of Kamui on both himself and Eight-Tails. Should the article be rewritten and just split into teleportation and intangibility now, with Kakashi's long-range barrier included in the former?--BeyondRed (talk) 14:52, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * As you said; teleporting and intangibility are to different things, but Kakashi has yet to actually show intangibility. Until he does show it, I think it should remain the same. 09:58, Steveo920, November 20, 2012


 * He didn't mean intangibility, he meant sucking stuff into your eye, then releasing it later. With a swirlin suction pattern. Kakashi couldn't do that before, now he can. Just like Obito. He hasn't shown intangibility yet, but he has shown close-range Kamui. I would construct the article in a way that separates only intangibility and teleportation, citing Obito's teleportation aspect as the primary one, and later adding Kakashi's long-range aspect, unseen in Obito. Xfing (talk) 17:50, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Everything that Kakashi has done has been mentioned. So what needs to change? Kakashi, unlike Obito is still able to warp away stuff without physical contact, so to me at least, Kakashi isn't using it in any way he hadn't before now except that now he knows he can bring stuff back to the real world or actually has a need to unlike before (warping away Deidara's body part(s) and an explosion).--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:53, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, and to put it in other words, obito needs to touch a person or something to warp something away whearas kakashi only needs to focus on the target with his eye to warp the target away, clear statement. --Naruto6paths (talk) 20:01, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

I just found out something, since the right eye uses intangibility and the left eye uses the teleporation barrier, their both additions since both eyes uses that spiral teleporation. I think we should set it up were we separate teleporation barrier and intangibility because there additions to the teleporation of each eye. And since both Obito and Kakashi used teleporation, we should seperate it into teleporation.--Droidkaju (talk) 03:02, November 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with Droidkaju, while the current version not say incorrect info, the article was written keeping in mind a certain outclassed difference between the Kakashi's and Obito's kamui, when seemed that the power of the copy ninja was less similar to Obito's one: the partition of the paragraphs is an evidence of it. So I'm of the opinion that should be written in a different form similar to the suggestions done to making the understanding much more clear.--JK88 (talk) 13:31, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

Literal english name
Penis of the Gods. Is that refering to the organ? Because I do not understand.--Axel Carrozzo (talk) 21:33, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Someone vandalised the page. I don't know why you're seeing that, since I reverted that edit about 20 minutes ago. And please stop putting so many lines between the section title and your comment, it makes the page look hideous. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:42, December 16, 2012 (UTC)

SHOULD OBITO TOUCH???
May I know, should Obito touch the target to send him/her to his pocket dimension?203.201.173.210 (talk) 15:40, March 25, 2013 (UTC) ~ Ultimate  Supreme  16:46, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Contradiction
It says that "although physical contact is required to absorb a target" What about with Danzos body guards he absorbed one in whilst touching them, yet with the other he did not. ? Whats the deal with this ? --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 15:41, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * In the manga, Tobi touches both Torune and Fu with his hand before warping them (Ch475 page 10 & Ch475 page 11). Skitts (talk) 16:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, its a bit hard to see but it looks like it :p il add it to the trivia that somtimes in the anime the mistake is made where the victim is not touched. --Keep Calm And Call Kakashi (talk) 16:08, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Left eye teleportation
So, at the moment, in the left eye's teleportation section, we currently say that Kakashi can teleport himself, on account of him being able to leave Kamui's dimension. But does that really count as teleportation? We have yet to see Kakashi purposefully send himself into that dimension, so, all he has done is avoid imprisonment in that dimension. Also, should merely entering and leaving Kamui's dimension be counted as teleportation? The phasing effect aside, I also considered Obito's teleportation as him disappearing in one location, to the Kamui dimension, and from there, appearing in a different location. Think going from the Kage Summit to the Samurai Bridge, or from Sasuke vs Deidara battlefield to Amegakure. Kakashi has yet to the either. Kurama only said he can get in and out of the dimension, nothing about him using it to cross great distances. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:40, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, as it is now with the Teleportation section separated from the sections on the eyes, it implies that Kakashi can do everything Obito can, even though he's only left the alternate dimension and ejected Eight-Tails from it. It's also kind of redundant to say there that physical contact is necessary and then say otherwise in the left eye section. Should the article just be split into two sections, one for each user? Actually, isn't it a little speculative to say that the difference in Kakashi and Obito's versions is because of which eye they use when it could be Uchiha dna or even something else entirely?--BeyondRed (talk) 05:58, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it counts as teleportation. Earlier, he has shown the ability only to create a barrier and warp stuff into the other dimension and later on also out of it, leaving out from inside counts as teleportation, tho you are right that he is yet to teleport in I believe. The only real difference between Obito and Kakashi's Kamuis is that the former's requires physical contact to warp stuff and the user can become intangible, while Kakashi has it ranged but can't turn ghost mode.--Elveonora (talk) 10:15, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Normal Sharingan
in the newer manga, obito is using his normal sharingan and phases through attacks without using his mangekyouRiptide240 (talk) 11:22, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Old news--Elveonora (talk) 11:23, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

If thats the case then why hasent anyone got an answerRiptide240 (talk) 11:25, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

What answer?--Elveonora (talk) 11:42, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

as to why he can do it without a MS but on the page it says its a MS techniqueRiptide240 (talk) 22:24, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Which chapter exactly shows him using Kamui with regular MS? I don't recall that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:27, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Read the chapters when they're fighting the ten tails, lee and naruto attack and hes clearly using a norm sharingan in addition to his rinnegan on chapter 617Riptide240 (talk) 22:44, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

On mangapanda its page 16Riptide240 (talk) 22:45, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

You can just make out the triangle shaped tomoe markes in his eyeRiptide240 (talk) 22:46, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

On that page, I see his regular Sharingan after the Rasenshuriken go through him, not during. I'd sooner chalk that up as a mistake than as a fact. Besides, there is one instance of MS powers being used with regular Sharigan. In a flashback we've seen Madara take control of Kurama, a MS power, using regular Sharingan. Regardless of how he used it, it is without a doubt a MS technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Thats not a mangekyou power, obito can do that, even sasuke supressed the kyubi's chackra with his sharingan, its even on the sharingan page in the abilities. Why do you the kyuubi takes a sharingan pattern in the eyes it just can be done with the mangekyou thats all Riptide240 (talk) 23:04, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

It even says so on obito's page under sharinganRiptide240 (talk) 23:06, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Controlling Kurama is a MS power, re-read the chapters that lead to Itachi and Sasuke's fight in mid-Part II. Sasuke says that the price for controlling the Nine-Tails is blindness, and Itachi says something like "so you actually did what I told you to do and read the tablet in the Naka Shrine". You need to awaken the MS to be able to do it, but once you do, you can do it without activating MS. Suppressing Kurama's chakra and actually controlling Kurama are two very different things. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:32, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

so are u saying that u need to awaken the MS and then once u do, u can control kurama with a normal sharingan, or that u need to control kurama first with the MS and u can do it normally?Riptide240 (talk) 14:18, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

because obito told sasuke that all uchiha can potentially control the tailed beasts but didnt mention the MS. This is all on the mangekyou talk page under tailed beast controlRiptide240 (talk) 14:31, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

And on the page tailed beast control, it says the sharingan has that ability. When madara and oito controlled the nine tails, they had there sharinganRiptide240 (talk) 14:33, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Omni already explained it to you, a dude has to first have a MS so he can control the beasts--Elveonora (talk) 14:38, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Well then u need to edit the sharingan page cause it says that the sharingan's hypnosis ability can be used to control a tailed beast and also, the MS is needed to controlthe nine tails, but not all the other tailed beastsRiptide240 (talk) 14:44, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

MS has been specifically linked to controlling Kurama, but it might have some measure of control over the other beasts as well. When the Five-Tails tries attacking Obito in the early stage of his battle with Naruto and B, and he has to restrain it back to Han's version two cloak, you can see the Sharingan in its eyes. Obito used both Sharingan (or MS power through basic Sharingan) and the Rinnegan's Outer Path to control the beasts. Most likely, all the times they refer to the Sharingan having the power to control the Nine-Tails, they mean the MS, just not with the specific term. MS is still a Sharingan in the end. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:58, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Then why is it on the damn sharingan page if MS has its own. Plus everyone refers to it as MS not the sharinganRiptide240 (talk) 02:48, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the best course of action would be to refer to it in articles as a Mangekyo power as it was described by Itachi and Sasuke, but include a (trivia?) point on the Mangekyo Sharingan and/or tailed beast control pages that Obito and Madara seemingly did it with only the regular Sharingan active?--BeyondRed (talk) 04:13, April 21, 2013 (UTC)

Kakashi?
Shouldn't it be noted that Kakashi was only able to teleport himself only after receiving chakra from the kyubi? And how the Kyubi's chakra might have had something to do with it (but not stating it as a fact, but a maybe or theory or something)?--Deathmailrock (talk) 08:37, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * We don't place theories on the page. As for the Kyuubi's chakra, all it did was replenish their supply and give them the shroud. I doubt it upgraded their skills. Joshbl56  10:21, August 16, 2013 (UTC)