Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-33030270-20170909171417/@comment-33308438-20171014190825

Enma surprised him right before his eyes. Not a sneak attack or anything. So yeah, there's no need for that ? mark if he wasn't surprised by the speed as he already knew everything about enma.

You can't say hiruzen was really bragging to be honest, since he was said to surpass tobirama in talent. Which means he obviously has better ninjutsu.

You're saying oro was beaten by itachi like its a bad thing, actually jiraiya wouldnt stand a chance. Pain might be mid diff but still itachi wins. Though I'm not going on detail in that.

Actually the series has been consistent with talent = power thing, as naruto whom you said was not that talented , was actually just lazy to study for the exams. You could see he mastered rasengan and jiraiya had full faith he would master it. Which shows both kakashi and jiraiya believed he was as talented as Sasuke and Neji. Kakashi was also sure naruto would master rasen shuriken which implies he foresaw raw talent in naruto, which would enable him to do so. There are also a lot of feats which imply naruto is almost shikamaru level genius.

You're also forgetting hiruzen didn't have stamina even before the fight began to make 2 shadow clones, now that's the worst stamina level of any shinobi in whole naruto series. That much toll, old age took on his body. Oro kept reminding him " Even the god of shinobi cant beat old age " again and again, he even said " please show me your true power " which means he knew hiruzen at prime would easily take them on.

But is there anything to prove that hiruzen waw named the " god of shinobi" or mastered all jutsu of konoha during dan's lifetime? Since he died really early in the 2nd war.

You could say minato might get the upper hand but the thing is, the databook says enma is what let him attain godhood. Which means his prime, that is when he skillfully wields enma , he could strike even minato , if in his old age , he could strike kusanagi and not allow oro to dodge it. If if minato evades that, which is highly unlikely , hiruzen could hiraishin and speedblitz him with enma ...... he could even use genjutsu to stun minato's movements , even if its for seconds and then use hiraishin. I dont think if he combines hiraishin, genjutsu and enma , then there will be no counter from minato's part. It's just I cant see minato breaking out of illusion and simultaneously evading enma amplified by hiraishin.