Talk:Kurotsuchi

gender
She is obviously a girl. This is not Haku or Deidara. Even Kishimoto wouldn't give a guy fishnet stockings. Please
 * I'm sorry, but Kurotsuchi is apparently masculine enough to have his/her gender questioned. Unless you have clear, solid proof of Kurotsuchi's gender, it will remain as "unknown."
 * Please sign your posts next time. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:45, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparent to whom might I ask? You? Then I question your ability to judge gender. Nobody believes she is man. She looks no more masculine than Temari. Again this is not Haku or Deidara. The girl has fishnet stockings for crying out loud! This is silly. 68.192.21.209 (talk) 00:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

anyone notice that she has hyuuga-esque eyes?
 * Some earlier editors apparently thought Kurotsuchi was a man, and to be honest, the only thing pointing to Kurotsuchi being a woman is the stockings thing. Not really solid proof, if you ask me. It can easily go either way, so it's best to keep it neutral right now. At least until there is some more evidence. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The fishnet, in my opinion, seems enough to support female. Regardless, this gender debate for people that apparently can only be decided if the character has breasts is starting to get annoying.
 * Start pulling sources from other sites to draw conclusions. Anything will do, anywhere will do.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Cause the part that's really ticking me off is that these always seem to be centered because the character whom seems female can't possibly BE female because they lack breasts. A anon's "our both right, we don't know but there's no breasts & Kurotsuchi is a male name" proves this.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:19, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Has no-one noticed that both Akatsuchi and the Tsuchikage are also wearing "fishnet stockings"? It proves nothing! - Ex Machinæ (talk) 00:41, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

>> I SERIOUSLY hate Kishimoto for making characters that we can't tell the gender off....until we get proof of the gender, because we know that Kishimoto can be strange like that, just keep it at gender unknown. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 01:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Gender evidence
I would like to bring forth some evidence pertaining to Kurotsuchi's gender. It might help solve this matter. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Kurotsuchi wears a skirt. This can be seen on page 1 of chapter 460;
 * 2) Kurotsuchi's jacket shows curves around where the breasts would be. This is especially evident on page 14 of chapter 461;
 * 3) Kurotsuchi uses  as a first-person pronoun. This is a highly feminine pronoun used mainly by women in downtown Tokyo and the geisha quarters.


 * Works for me. What say you (other people not me or ShounenSuki).--TheUltimate3 (talk) 15:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I dont doubt ShounenSuki...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 15:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The pronoun one is good enough for me.Thatother1dude (talk) 16:29, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

ShounenSuki is right. Cooltamerboy (talk) 09:55, September 9, 2009 (UTC).

Deidara
I'm not familiar with Japanese honorifics and suffixes, but as far as I could see, Kurotsuchi referred to Deidara as Deidara-nii, which some have translated as brother. While there is a similarity of sorts, is there any truth in that translation? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If I'm not mistaken, Japanese people sometimes calls others "big bro" or "big sis" as a sign of respect, even if they are not related. Not sure though. Jacce | Talk 16:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Kurotsuchi does indeed refer to Deidara as . However this doesn't necessarily imply they are sibling. It just means that Deidara is older than Kurotsuchi and they were, in a way, close. Hinata calls Neji big brother as well, and Naruto calls Shizune big sister. It's possible they were siblings, but there's no way to be sure right now. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:12, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Family relations
Is she really Tsuchikage's granddaugter, or did she just call him 'gramps' because he's old and they have a familiar relationship? I'm under the impression it was the latter. ZeroSD (talk) 08:46, October 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * I doubt they are actually related. They don't act like grandfather and granddaughter. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:27, October 3, 2009 (UTC)

Does she or does she not have hyuga eyes?--SkyFlicker (talk) 14:36, October 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure she doesn't. ZeroSD (talk) 08:14, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * look in the picture, she has no pupils, they look like the byakugan.--SkyFlicker (talk) 21:51, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * Anko and Ino don't have pupils either. --ShounenSuki (talk 22:26, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * I just got pwnd lol--SkyFlicker (talk) 00:15, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

alot of people call old people gramps,granny,ect naruto even use it on chiyo and Tsunade Linkdarkside (talk) 19:28, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Element?
I am quite sure that she has earth element. If you look at the bottom middle of the scan, you can see a defensive(almost hemispherical) shape which most likely defended her against the pillars falling when Sasuke used his Susano'o. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/468/11/ Shikamaru1994 (talk) 22:20, October 16, 2009 (UTC)Shikamaru1994Shikamaru1994 (talk) 22:20, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * You can't assure that it's an earth based technique! Could be the combination of two elements, her own kekei genkai... we'll have to wait til she fight against someone. Or should we write something like a trivia or speculation?? --Kiba91 (talk) 21:57, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably should refer somewhere in the article, because she is doing something to defend herself... Shikamaru1994 (talk) 01:58, October 19, 2009 (UTC)Shikamaru1994
 * "creates a dome to protect herself from falling debris." ~SnapperTo 02:44, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

By Default, 2 Bloodline Limits
If a person has an elemental bloodline limit, then that person can only use the elements that makes them up. Yamato explained this. So if she has lava release (fire and earth release), and ALSO water release, would she not then be forced to have a second elemental limit, that includes water as well? Or do no rules in the Naruto universe apply to her?
 * Yamato never said a person with an elemental bloodline can only do the two elements that make up that bloodline. At least, not as far as I remember. Do you have a source? —ShounenSuki (talk 19:47, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * If it is true, it should be mentioned in chapter 316, pages 5-8. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 20:30, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't remember that either. All we know is that if you have an advanced nature, you automatically have access to the basic natures that make it up, they never said anything about being limited to those natures. Nothing says someone with an advanced nature kekkei genkai can't independently develop another nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:24, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it was mentioned in 316, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksko6Vzsm ) when Naruto wonders if Yamato has three elements (earth, water, wood) Yamato replies that. "[he] only [has] access to earth and water based jutsu" so his wood element can't really be considered a third element. We also see other people, the fifth Mizukage being a perfect example. having two, said that she can use earth, water, and fire which compose her to bloodline limits. We have never seen ANYONE else EVER use more then the elements that make up their bloodline limit (Danzo only had access to wood element by having part of the first Hokage implanted into his arm, which was the only place he could use wood, and he only used wind though the parts of the body that did not have the Hokage cells) --Dragon Hacker (talk) 23:42, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * That might have more to do with the fact it's extremely difficult to master so many elements, rather than it being impossible or anything. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:49, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just because Yamato didn't try mastering another element it doesn't he couldn't if he tried. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:02, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kurotsuchi could of only focused on the Lava style in terms of Element Fusions. We don't know what else she trained her self in so adding in other element fusions she hasn't admitted to have or display is speculation. Its like adding in Wood element for the Mizukage just cause she has the prerequisite elements.We add case by case as by going by the Tc's logic the Mizukage should have 3 element fusions as she has the elements needed for Wood but as we seen its up to the individual ninja on what they learn and merge(within their ability).Umishiru (talk) 00:24, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * saying she has more then one elemental fusion at this time is speculation, but the above example is a bad one because no one would speculate the mizukage has the wood element. She does not have the dna of the first hokage like Danzo and Yamato both have.Darthwin (talk) 14:55, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd just like to add that element fusions (or advanced nature transformations) can not be trained (at least in respect to obtaining them) but are instead a genetic trait passed down through specific clans, as noted within Chapter 316. Now just as a person who possesses both the earth and water elements necessary for wood releases is incapable of simultaneously utilizing both of them to generate the advanced nature in question due to their lack of the required DNA, Kurosutchi herself may not be able to use another advanced nature purely because it isn't part of her bloodline, despite having the relevant elements. It also isn't unheard of a person at this level possessing three natures (e.g. Kakashi Hatake), so it isn't unreasonable that Kurosutchi can manipulate three elements but that it is ultimately her genetics which decide what if any combinations can be created. Blackstar1 (talk) 17:15, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's the first example we've seen, outside of Danzo's artificially implanted kekkei genkai, of a user having both an element-combination kekkei genkai and a third element besides. The odd thing that strikes me is that it's not the same as her grandfather. ZeroSD (talk) 17:27, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The entire Lava Release thing is very weird. It started out as a Tailed Beast ability connected with Iwa, then it suddenly also became a Kiri kekkei genkai, and now it also became an Iwa kekkei genkai. I sincerely wonder how Kishimoto-sensei is going to tie this all together. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:36, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * My bet is that the same combinations can simply occur independently, they don't have to be related. Especially as each Lava user seems to have a different set of jutsu, it may be each kekkei genkai is a unique variant. ZeroSD (talk) 17:53, October 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know it sounded like I Was saying they should have Wood but all I was pointing out that saying is flawed using teh Tc's argument.Besides didn't Kisame say its rare to see them outside Kekkei Genkai? So even if a person can do it outside bloodlines it seems to be through artificial means(biju,dna implant).I say issue resolved.Umishiru (talk) 05:52, October 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * i suppose he's assuming that because they can use the same base elements that they can probably have the same kekkei genkai. A lot of people share the same basic chakra nature that doesn't mean that everyone can combine the two to form a new element however. --Cerez365 (talk) 23:15, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Kekkei Genkai Relations
If Kurotsuchi has this Kekkei Genkai, and Mei has this Kekkei Genkai, then (weird expiriments) dosn't that mean that they must be related? They both have something that is unique to a certain bloodline, so they both must be of that bloodline. If they are both of the same bloodline, then that also means there is the potential that they have a common descent from someone with the Boil Release Kekkei Genkai. Kurotsuchi also has Dust Release Kekkei Genkai within her bloodline, though she may or may not have the actual Kekkei Genkai. This also means there is the potential that they both have common descent from someone with the Dust Release Kekkei Genkai. This has got to be some seriously weird family tree.SkyFlicker (talk) 09:20, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * While it's essentially the same kekkei genkai the kanji for each is written differently one has the radical for fire and the other for water which could just mean that unrelated people may be able to use the same kekkei genkai but with different elemental base compositions.--Cerez365 (talk) 09:26, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or they simply could share an ancestor from before the ninja villages were established. We don't know if Kurotsuchi has Dust Release, having a relative with the kekkei genkai doesn't automatically mean you have a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:28, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know this, I'm just saying that she has the potential to have it, as well as a possible potential for BoilSkyFlicker (talk) 22:18, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because they share a lava bloodline does not mean they share boil too. Boil could have worked into Mei's family long after lava split between Iwa and Kiri. ~SnapperTo 23:09, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Image
Can we add a new anime image of her now?Fishboy144 (talk) 22:08, February 17, 2011 (UTC)Fishboy144


 * I've always thought it was colored manga > anime images..  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 22:10, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

They changed it so that if the anime is okay we use the anime instead of the colored manga. So I think someone needs to put one in there.Fishboy144 (talk) 22:24, February 17, 2011 (UTC)Fishboy144

Infobox
Okay this infobox picture switching back and forth needs to stop. How about we just put the anime picture in the infobox and we put the colored manga next to her appearance? Does that sound good?Fishboy144 (talk) 02:15, February 18, 2011 (UTC)Fishboy
 * Uhmm.. no? The colored manga image is much more clear and detailed than the anime one. Besides, your image does not contain the proper licence and rationale tags, making it unusable in articles.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 02:18, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really friend. We aim to give accurate depictions. Putting an image of Kurotsuchi with black eyes when we have a perfectly good one of her with the correct eye color isn't very accurate now is it? --Cerez☺ (talk) 02:20, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, but could we atleast put up a picture of her that says "Kurotsuchi in the anime" like next to her appearance? If not okay but I just thought we should atleast have one image of her clearly in the anime.Fishboy144 (talk) 02:24, February 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Cerez I was actually referring to this one, not this one. The current one is fine, the other one had no licence and rationale.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 02:25, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Do we have a properly licensed image showing her from head to toe? If so, we can add that to the appearance section, like we've done with many other characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:27, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

WEll I submitted one but I'm not sure that it works, and also I tried to read about how to license and make it rationale and everything, but I don't quite understand how to do it. Also we could do what ahppened with Konan's infobox because its like exactly the same situation but that is just a suggestion.Fishboy144 (talk) 02:38, February 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is the only one available through out the episode, not that good, but better than some I've seen.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 02:54, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Okay well we'll jusst keep it there until a better one comes up.Fishboy144 (talk) 02:58, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

Somehow in all of this I got confused. Is it that we keep the anime image there with the wrong eyes or the manga image with the correct eye color? Because i lost track of whatever "it" is referring to--Cerez☺ (talk) 03:10, February 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Please change the poor quality image of the manga by the image of the anime. That of Hanzo should also be changed, it makes the whole not very clean and mixed with images of poor quality. Itachou [~talk~] 18:39, February 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * They portray the characters incorrectly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:42, February 19, 2011 (UTC)