Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-30966312-20180413200754/@comment-33959444-20180524044547

@Nashikeine It's never stated Naruto or Sasuke became Hagoromo level. In fact, it makes no sense to me that they are. Remember that Hagoromo and Hamura together defeated Kaguya after months of fighting. SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke needed outside help to do it and could have lost in several instances. And yes, Sasuke had extra Tailed Beasts, but he didn't flat-out become the Jinchuriki. He just absorbed a lot of their power. It's made clear by the series by the Ten Tails that is a lot stronger than all the Tailed Beasts that go into making it. For example, we know that Naruto in Kurama Avatar could go head to head with 6 Tailed Beasts without much difficulty. Then, as soon as an incomplete form of the Ten Tails in its first form, it absolutely demolishes Naruto, Bee, Kakashi, and Guy at the same time. The only thing the Ten Tails had that the 6 Tailed Beasts were missing were 1 Tailed Beast and only portions of Chakra from the Nine and Eight Tails. One difference is that the Ten Tails is the agrigate of all Tailed Beasts, while the Bijuu themselves are separated. So, that's the only solution for the insane power gap. So, the Ten Tails >>> all nine Tailed Beasts. Hagoromo, even without the Ten Tails, was still so strong that he was able to fight against Kaguya for entire months. Together, he (before he became the Juubi Jinchuriki) and Hamura (before he gained the Tenseigan) were able to seal Kaguya. So, Hagoromo and Hamura are showing superior feats to Naruto (defeating Kaguya by themselves while Naruto and Sasuke needed help from Sakura, DMS kakashi, and DMS Obito) while in depowered forms (Hagoromo didn't have the Juubi and Hamura didn't have the Tenseigan). By feats alone, they are stronger than Naruto and Sasuke. They're also narratively stronger as Naruto and Sasuke only have half the power of Hagoromo. And I'm not even sure if it's half, actually. Remember that even after this ghostly Hagoromo (who was just a ghost and didn't even ahve the Ten Tails, so he was weaker than his prime self) gave Naruto and Sasuke his power, he STILL had the Rinnegan and SPSM, so it's possible he actually gave less than half his power to each of them. Remember that it was through his power that Naruto and Sasuke could seal Kaguya. So, Hagoromo is broken OP. I don't think Naruto and Sasuke are at this level, at least not yet...

And even though Hagoromo and Hamura were depowered against Kaguya, she was actually still very strong. Remember that Hagoromo and Hamura were her direct sons, so they inherited her powers. Hagoromo was so strong that he broke logic and awakened the Rinnegan through emotional trauma as if it was a Sharingan. He also learned Sage Mode in an instant and had Six Paths Sage Mode (the original user of it). Hamura had no feats, but he should have been relative to Hagoromo as well. After months of fighting, they finally defeated Kaguya.

Getting another half of the Kyuubi doesn't double his overall power. It powers up all of his forms that have to do with the Kyuubi.

Naruto actually used BSM against Toneri. It wasn't KCM, because the other half of Kurama was still able to form a Kurama Avatar. If he was in KCM, that wouldn't be possible.

When was it stated Toneri was on par with Hamura?

Even if Momoshiki was stronger than Kaguya (I have my doubts about that), it doesn't mean he has better immortality. Kaguya survived 9 Tailed Beast Rasen-Shuriken to the face and came out with scratch marks over her body. The only reason she went unstable was because the Tailed Beasts inside her reacted to the Tailed Beast attacks.

The part about Chakra and all is head canon, but didn't Kaguya state she shared her Chakra with Hagoromo and Hamura? It's never stated they had their own Chakra or anything.

@Starscream1998 Kaguya is the incarnation of the Juubi, which is the incarnation of the Divine Tree. The Divine Tree was shown to absorb Sage Chakra in the fight against Juubito and in the Kaguya filler arc, it was absorbing the natural energy of the terrain. Kaguya can absorb Senjutsu. Senjutsu is just proficient against SPSM and Truthseeker Orbs. Doesn't mean it can't be absorbed.