Talk:Naruto Hiden

canonicity
Any updates on this front?--Elve Talk Page 22:05, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * They're canonically set in the Blood Prison universe, but they're not canon to the manga universe. At least as long as they're not spoken of in the original manga. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:08, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * this?--Omojuze (talk) 22:26, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Omojuze What I want; Canon that ish. What will most likely happen; Endless debate.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 22:29, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Blood Prison being canon to the manga if the Light Novels are? Ugh, that could get stupid real fast. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 22:31, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Tau provided me enough reasons to make me feel that they're non-canon, but, well.. Blood Prison may exist, but the events from the movie might've never happened.--Omojuze (talk) 22:33, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's just takL's opinion. Kishimoto is involved in the sense that he wrote the original story and that he provides artwork (cover etc). Nothing else, from what I know. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:48, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's just a personal opinion to decide whether it's canon or not. Generally we deal with that it's coming from a novel which is another type of adaption for Naruto series, I think we'll hear those kinds of things in the future, reminding me the Dragon Ball. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 22:55, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, we probably should decide on what we consider canon and what not/semi-canon? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:01, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * According to FF-Suzaku, the book has its own version of Blood Prison events, so whatever's decided with regards to this book series would not require any kind of unilateral uplifting of the movie's material. ~SnapperTo 03:23, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau, I wonder, because these novels serve to conclude character plots left from the manga. Like Kakashi's "transformation" into the 6th Hokage. If these things were non-canon, explaining them would have been redundant, no? If the Akatsuki one for example touches on what's with Orochimaru post chapter 699 and you say it's not-canon, we won't include that information? 0_o--Elve Talk Page 07:53, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, so even if the light novels are canon to the manga, they have a different set of Blood Prison events from the movie. Good. Trying to make the movie Blood Prison canon to the manga would have been troublesome to do on the wiki. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 08:11, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even if they do that, they're at most as canon as the current filler. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:33, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * So, what is the situation: canon, semi-canon("filler canon") or non-canon("movie-canon")? Snapper-kun suggested that infobox information is not to be added until this is decided.--Omojuze (talk) 15:15, February 26, 2015 (UTC)

note
With reference to this: I'm aware that the timeline is official. However, people who have not read the novels seem to be confused on the chronology; Kakashi Hiden evidently begins before Sasuke leaves Konoha, but by chapter 1 of that book he would have already left based on Nartuo's arm. I was just pointing out a minutia that might not be immediately obvious. ~SnapperTo 18:13, May 24, 2015 (UTC)

Madara Hiden?
So I found this- https://twitter.com/Wigi_Migi/status/615130785293598720/photo/1 I don't know if it's legitimate or not, but in case it is, I figured it was worth sharing. The only reason why I think it might be legit is because of the large following it's gotten (200+ re-tweets and favorites). But it could be another BS fan art like the Sasuke Hiden book from awhile ago. --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 22:13, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * ISBN number is fake as well as the barcode is blurry. So it's not legit. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 22:18, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * There's no ISBN number, lol. Also, his account says ⚠️マダラ秘伝は発売されないよ⚠️ = ! Madara Hiden won't be sold ! • Seelentau 愛 議 22:21, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh well. I tried translating it, but I couldn't really get a good one. I only got a brief explanation saying it was the seventh edition in the Hiden series.--KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 23:50, June 28, 2015 (UTC)

Canonicy 2
What is the purpose of Weekly Shounen Jump releasing an official novel timeline for both the Hiden and Shinden novels listing them within the same timeline as the original Manga chapters and canonical movies for them to be considered non-canon? They all seem to coherently follow canonical Manga events purposely and are presented as a way to cover blank periods in time on multiple different characters. Does Kishimoto himself really need to come out and say "Yes they are all canon" for them to be accepted as canon by the wiki community?

This I cannot prove, but a user on Narutoforums linked a seemingly legit interview with Kishimoto in which he was asked questions regarding Kakashi Hiden and other things from the Manga and he did not bother to differentiate between the two. If I could find this interview again and prove it was legit myself I would, but I assumed that the experienced editors and translators here would have had already gotten their hands on that if it existed and was legit. Do any of you know if this interview exists and if it's legit? If so, would that not immediately confirm their canonicy more than ever? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 04:29, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Canon is such a nasty word. It really shouldn't matter if it's novel, movie or game. Munchvtec (talk) 04:34, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * There's no timeline which lists the novels with the canonical movies. Furthermore, canon isn't defined by the author or someone else. Canon is the original story, in our case the manga. As long as something outside of the manga wasn't made canon (for example by calling it manga chapter 699.5), it's not. Even if the author "approved" of it. Then we have the anime canon, including filler, the movie canon and lastly the novel canon, which introduces new things such as Mud Release. By the way, I asked the Naruto twitter account if the novels are canon, but they don't answer, sadly. Then again, I don't think the Japanese bother as much as we do, but they don't have a wiki to run, hm. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:02, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well it's unfortunate that the twitter page didn't respond. However, the official timeline chart on this page literally has The Last and the Boruto film listed alongside Manga chapters and all of the novels. You can just expand the picture and you can see them all listed together. If the novels are listed alongside canonical content as apart of the same timeline that would make them canon, no? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:45, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * "There's no timeline which lists the novels with the canonical movies." Seelentau, April 7, 2016. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:49, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File%3ANovels_timeline.png What do you call that then? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:51, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, technically it's called Naruto Shinobi Chronology. Anyways, my point is that what you think are the movies, are actually the movie novels. The hexagon says 映画ノベライズ Movie Novelize. The other hexagon say Gaiden Series and Shinden Series. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:57, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

@Seel: What the hell is "elga"? Lol Munchvtec (talk) 20:15, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's "movie" in Japanese, like you can see here. --JouXIII (talk) 20:18, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Aren't the novelizations of the movies no different from the movies themselves except? Or what about the Manga chapters being listed? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 20:24, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * They're different. The manga chapters are listed so the reader knows when the novels take place. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:29, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * The novels are the same but have changes. Munchvtec (talk) 20:32, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Do the novels contradict any established canon material in the films? Assuming you've all read them? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 20:41, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think any movie novel has been entirely translated. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:46, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

The movie novels change slightly. They add a few things and remove things. These changes are all small though. The only novel i can think of that has large changes is the Takigakure one but that's an OVA novel. Munchvtec (talk) 21:24, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * /popcorn--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 21:26, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes... that's the difference....... lol Munchvtec (talk) 21:31, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

Def not Canon
Gaara is born the January before Naruto is born, hence is is almost 9 months older than Naruto. DB3 and 4 confirm this. Yet according to this timeline Gaara TURNS 20 in the Gaara Hiden which takes place after The Last and Naruto and Hinata's wedding which takes place in Spring when the Cherry Petals are falling. Plus I believe Sasuke gets his arm back in the Hiden Series.. again making it non-canon. QuakingStar (talk) 16:43, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * So? --Sajuuk 17:13, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Timeline inconsistency, so what? Then parts of the manga are not canon by that logic.--最強の戦士 Lulcy 17:20, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Guys, these are light novels written in a project that is overseen by Kishimoto himself like the "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations" manga. These novels are as canon as anything's gonna get Shock Dragoon (talk) 17:28, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * And we can just end the canon/non-canon debate there, since it has no relevance to how things are recorded on this wiki. :D --Sajuuk 17:31, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Shock Dragoon: Please don't spread false info around... They are not supervised by Kishimoto, he only does the illustrations. Same could literally be said when Kishimoto provided art for Shippūden Hanabi for the Rock Lee SD manga/anime.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:44, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * They are apart of the "Naruto Project" which he oversees if I'm not mistaken. Shock Dragoon (talk) 18:21, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * You know what's also part of the project? The Live-Action Play...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 19:00, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

Apparently Sasuke has his arm back in these, in The Last and in Boruto the Movie he does not have his arm. They are not canon point blank. Bottom ******* line. Sajuuk you're opinion alone isn't changing a thing. QuakingStar (talk) 19:58, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * You've mentioned it twice but with no source. In which novel does Saskue apparently get his arm back?-- Questionaredude (talk) 20:09, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

You have google at your disposal. Go find it. I was told by two different people. QuakingStar (talk) 20:22, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

Searched myself, can't find it. Hopefully somebody has read the novels and comments here. QuakingStar (talk) 20:26, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen, Sasuke's "new arm" was only ever mentioned in Sakura Hiden during a dream sequence so it shouldn't count towards your argument.Shock Dragoon (talk) 22:01, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * I found it, it was in Sakura's dream in Chapter 2 section 2 and as Shock Dragon stated "shouldn't count towards your argument."-- Questionaredude (talk) 22:08, May 23, 2016 (UTC)

Actually, Sajuuk, it does have relevance, otherwise we wouldn't list some things as anime only. But yeah, everything that's not the manga is not canon, Kishimoto's involvement doesn't matter. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:00, May 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * You and QuakingStar completely missed the point by my "So?", but that's expected, given that you are obsessive about canonicity on this wiki.
 * The whole point of me saying "So?" was directed at the pointless reference to canonicity that you and QuakingStar literally don't shut up about, despite the fact that you've been told far too many times to stop going on about it, because it does not have any validity in how we write content. If it's contradictory, you write "In the X novel, ...", we don't just say "oh this is not canon, so let's not give a toss about it".
 * So please, for the love of god, stop bringing up canon/non-canon here, you are abusing it to get your own way in any wiki discussion and it's bordering on the ridiculousness. If you want a wiki that is only about what you have determined as "canon" (given that there has never been any official statements from Kishimoto about what he has determined as "canon"), then go and make your own "Naruto Canon Only Wiki". --Sajuuk 09:07, May 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * /sigh. Okay. That's enough everyone. I care very little about who wrote what, who got what wrong, blah blah blah enough. This discussion has devolved into another canon vs non-canon pissing match, and it ends here.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 09:26, May 24, 2016 (UTC)