Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26998824-20150920161424/@comment-734582-20150928113713

GreatestSin wrote: ^i think your "Observation 2" has a mistake, hiruzen wasnt hyped to be the most powerful shinobi in part 2 :) In the manga, all they say is that "he's the strongest" and then the exact same phrase is used against the first and second Hokage. Later on they say he was the strongest of the five Kage.

BakumatsuWarrior wrote: Inference 3: The fact that Hiruzen, in his near-perfect Edo form, could do nothing against Guruguru Tobi (who had vastly inferior Hashi powers) Was Hiruzen even fighting the guy? From memory, Hiruzen sort-of left after erecting the barrier and seems to have been moving over the battlefield to do...whatever he did. He shows up briefly to block the Wood Statue's elemental attacks, and i believe that's the last we see of him until the IT starts.

BakumatsuWarrior wrote: Inference 1: That Hiruzen was called the "strongest" in Part 1, but instead Hashirama is repeatedly called the "strongest" in Part 2 (Observations 1 and 2, respectively), suggests the author changed his mind about who was the strongest between Part 1 and Part 2. Oh i don't disagree that Kishimoto changed his mind (Hashirama was only ~60 years ago but everyone magically forgot about him) but i don't see Hiruzen's strengths as a retcon. Throughout Naruto newer information supersedes older information (remember Itachi's explanation of the Mangekyou, and what actually happened to Madara?). As to people forgetting, well a lot of shit went down in the Narutoverse ever since (no less than three Shinobi Wars) and it's basically a world of secrecy. From what i understood from the Manga, the reason was basically that people thought Hashirama's feats were exaggerations and legends.

Discussions like these only make me more frustrated that Kishimoto didn't show more of him, as he was definitely demoted to less than a side-kick. There's nothing to go on, and basically nothing to figure out how strong he is exactly. But he defeated a Sennin in his 70's so i guess that's something?