Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation

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Bleeding
Can a Edo bleed? Otherwise how can they summon creatures?188.140.239.11 (talk) 12:50, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes they can. Itachi's eyes still bled after all and the Second Mizukage was able to summon his clam.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:05, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

It appears they bleed only from self-inflicted injuries, in a sense like usage of a technique that harms their (or better say the host's) body etc.--Elveonora (talk) 14:56, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

It's the same as the way they are able to remove their own clothing and such, but if somebody else does they just regenerate. Probably also related to the way Tobi was able to insert Sharingan and chakra receivers into the Six Paths without them regenerating.--BeyondRed (talk) 20:19, July 20, 2012 (UTC)

What about when Kabuto placed a mind control tag into Torune blood came from his mouth and made a sound of pain there was blood but it was self inflicted by Torune and I thought people brought back to life by edo tensei couldn't feel pain? and when people brought back to life by edo tensei are injured you don't see the sacrafice underneath so when kabuto implants the tag in there head wouldn't it fall out because there is no brain?? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 21:48, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Torune was drooling not bleeding and that looked like Fū making the "sound of pain". As for the rest of your question, this isn't a forum.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:42, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

So he was drooling blood?? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 17:09, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * People tend to drool saliva. had it been blood, the colour would have been darker.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:45, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Itachi's Eyes
Itachi got blind after fighting sasuke from both his sharingan,and was resurrected with both of them normal Nagato had his legs injured, and came back with them still injured any explanation ?--177.33.246.101 (talk) 00:37, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Itachi's eyes were pretty bad, but nothing indicates he went fully blind before death. If how his eye looked after he used Izanami is an indication at least. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:30, August 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nagato on the other hand could have simply "forgot" how to use his legs due to not using them for so long. It's akin to someone getting in an accident and needing rehabilitation to learn to reuse to limb, only Nagato had none of that.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:06, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

Nagato's legs were long healed, the problem was with his brain/nerve endings--Elveonora (talk) 17:01, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

About the use of the word "reincarnation". While that may be the title of the name in english, the technique does not actually reincarnate anyone. It resurrects them. The two words are very different. As such, the words "reincarnation" and "reincarnate", etc., should be replaced with the appropriate variants of "resurrection". 69.126.200.33 (talk) 03:40, September 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what the term "tensei" means, and as such, it's the term to be used through the wiki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:16, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

People are returned to "life" using other people's bodies as vessels. It is incorrect to say there's any type of resurrection here unless you're using layman's terms in which case everything is a resurrection.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 09:54, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Resurrected in the exact state they died in?
If edo tensei resurrects the dead in the exact state they died in wouldn't that mean for example Itachi would be resurrected in the state when he fought Sasuke near blind and in bad physical condition? Or Sasori he was resurrected as a human, didn't he die a puppet? Unless all resurrected by Kabuto are special like madara, they were resurrected when they were at their best. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 22:17, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * For all we know, Itachi was near blind when he was brought back. And he wasn't in a bad physical condition, he was sick. A puppet can die, Sasori was brought back as a human because he was a human. Only Madra was a special case. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well when he was "near blind" his sharingan or mangekyō had no tomoe seal just a grey eye like Sasuke's after his battle with Danzo and wouldn't he be resurrected near blind? Because he died near blind. What I mean is maybe Kabuto can resurrect them at any point in their life like he could have resurrected Itachi in the state before his battle with Sasuke. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 22:54, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

It resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected, except in Madara's case, works... doesn't it?--Elveonora (talk) 23:18, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Kabuto must have gathered Itachi's DNA after Sasuke killed him... so why wasn't he resurrected near blind with grey eyes and no tomeo on his sharingan or mangekyō sharingan? See where I'm coming from? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 23:23, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Who told you that? He could have had a bunch of his hair from a hairbrush.--Elveonora (talk) 23:29, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure hair doesn't count.. are you listening to what you're saying? that wouldn't be it. I can't imagine Kabuto getting Itachi's DNA while Itachi was alive... who told you it resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected? If so, is it 100% true? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 23:33, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

It says "Kabuto can also modify his summoned fighters, as he did with Madara Uchiha. While the technique usually reincarnates the deceased at the exact state they were in at the time of their deaths" not they are resurrected in the state when their DNA is collected.. to support this Kabuto says he graverobs to get the DNA he can't resurrect living people.. so for example he got Pakura's DNA while she was alive and killed her and resurrected her? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 23:40, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Any DNA is sufficient, doesn't have to be only corpses/remains as he used blood and didn't specify what kind. I don't see why a genetic source from young Hiruzen should revive him as an old man. It's logical and explains basically what this topic discuss. No one says that, of course a living person can't be resurrected. The user can prepare the "zombie body" anytime though, the example being Minato. His soul wasn't available, but a host turned into "Minato" has been prepared.--Elveonora (talk) 23:46, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

So how did Itachi get resurrected to a point when his sharingan weren't near blind when he died? I thought it resurrects them in the state of their death. and I understand what you mean, but young Hiruzen's DNA wouldn't revive Hiruzen when he was young. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 23:51, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Elveonora, no one ever said that the person is brought back according to how they were at the time the DNA was collected. And anon, hair does have DNA, but only the root of the hair if I'm not mistaken. Remember that DNA isn't the only necessary thing, the soul of the person is brought back as well. That is what probably accounts for them coming back as they were prior to death. I still don't quite see the point of this topic. Madara is the only exception of this, and that is accounted for in the article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:53, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough.. I guess :P --82.39.201.72 (talk) 00:50, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I mean how was Itachi resurrected with non-near blind sharingan when he died with near blind sharingan because of his battle with Sasuke? I thought edo tensei resurrects the dead in the state in which they died, that means his sharingan. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 23:58, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

@Omni@others, can you provide a source for Edo Tensei reviving people prior to death? Unless I'm mistaken, it's just as big assumption/conclusion as the statement of mine (which is more logical imo)--Elveonora (talk) 00:03, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure Kabuto mentions it... --82.39.201.72 (talk) 00:04, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

"Then dust and ash encase the sacrifice's body, giving them the same appearance that the reincarnated had at the time of their death. The process is apparently somewhat painful as seen when Fū was used to reincarnate Torune." If they are resurrected with the same appearance they had at their death would they be resurrected in the state of their death? --82.39.201.72 (talk) 00:09, October 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) no one provided a source yet, since "I'm sure Kabuto mentions it" isn't enough
 * 2) please, instead of double posting, just edit your previous post
 * 3) stop asking more question like if this was a forum before we conclude if what's written in the article is false or correct--Elveonora (talk) 00:16, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not asking more questions... I'm asking the first, and only question which you haven't answered yet. Have you got any evidence that "It resurrects them in a state from the time the DNA has been collected?" --82.39.201.72 (talk) 00:20, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

That's not your original question, there is no source for date of acquisition of DNA playing any role. What is known about the technique is in the article, and further discussion is pointless. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:43, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Again, it was never stated to revive people/turn victims into other people as they were at the time of their death, either there's a reference to that or isn't, currently it's the latter. It should be removed, for it only to say: "Then dust and ash encase the sacrifice's body, giving them the same appearance that the reincarnated had" as the rest is a conclusion based on an assumption due to a lack of information, unless you can put me wrong and provide a quote from a chapter/databook page. What I have stated above is a possibility how it may really work, and since it appears we don't know, either remove that or put up my version that makes more sense. Basically in short (not to confuse you) what is being discussed is: --Elveonora (talk) 04:16, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * How Edo Itachi is not blind.
 * I say simply because Kabuto had his genetic material before the Sasuke fight
 * There currently isn't a redirect for the "prior to death" part

How they were at death probably comes from Nagato (who came back with the weakened look he had from using Samsara of Heavenly Reincarnation) and Torune (who was brought back in the exact same cloths he had just moments before). Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:44, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I doubt it's as cut and dry as the person being reincarnated as how they physically were in their lifetime/before their death. Someone mentioned a while back that it is probably how the person's soul perceived itself at the time of death, which is why Sasori didn't get reincarnated as his core of living flesh and why Nagato still couldn't walk properly though the legs of whomever's body he occupied were functional. I don't know where you got the information that Itachi wasn't "blind" since I don't remember him being blind at his time of death, just severely deteriorated vision. There are several possibilities that could explain that such as the host body wasn't blind (reincarnation vs. resurrection again), but I quite like the "you're as whole and young as your soul thinks you are" angle. The point is, we'll never be 100% on this until Kishimoto explains, so don't sweat the small stuff.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:53, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

--Elveonora (talk) 16:58, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kabuto got Nagato's DNA after he revived the villagers?
 * That's self-explanatory.


 * So you're content to believe that people are reincarnated in the state their DNA which Kabuto gathers is in? There's a few flaws to that though: scientifically, DNA doesn't change like that, why aren't people like the Kage whose DNA obviously came from grave robbing not old and decrepit in appearance? Why didn't Sasori look older? From what Kabuto said, he brought Madara back beyond his prime. Though I don't know what that means exactly, but if he did that to everyone, what was the point in mentioning this? I also don't get the whole Kabuto got Itachi's DNA from a hairbrush but like I said we can only speculate on this matter until we're told otherwise.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:09, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

--Elveonora (talk) 17:14, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, Omni knows biology, I think... maybe he can tell.
 * They died as old as they had forms in which they were revived...
 * Sasori looked normal to me.
 * No one says he did that to everyone, also we know what "beyond his prime" means exactly.
 * That was an example.

It could be they're resurrected at their best (prime). and Madara is special because he had was resurrected with his rinnegan even though at one point he gave it to someone (Nagato). And he had his memories, knowledge from his old self in his young body. --82.39.201.72 (talk) 17:25, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

No, Chiyo was revived as an old hag, the only one in his prime and beyond is Madara. This pretty much confirms that they are revived in a state from the point the DNA gets collected. The way I see it, Kabuto simply used blood from younger Madara (the Hashirama's sword he got pierced with for example could serve as a source) and added Hashirama's genes into the mix, reviving young Madara with already the latter's powers as his own.--Elveonora (talk) 17:46, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Just because two things correlate (vary together), it doesn't mean they're actually related. There's a scientific paper which mocks this belief, showing that stork nests and births were positively correlated somewhere in Germany sometime last century. Nothing in the manga confirms, or even suggests that time of acquisition of DNA defines how they're brought back. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:59, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you understood me Elveonora: The point still remains that only Kishimoto can answer this, if he chooses to or not. Some things just have to be accepted as continuity. But as far as I can tell, people are reincarnated in the state that they were before they died. Accept it either as part of the plot or the fact that in Nagato or Itachi's case (assuming the latter was "blind") that their souls were reincarnated into fully functioning corpses, hence defects of their previous body would have no bearing on those bodies.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 18:01, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * DNA does not change based on what happens to you unless it's a genetic disease- which is very rare. So if you lose a limb for example your DNA does not reflect that.
 * Still make no sense to me. See previous point.
 * Sasori should have been revived as a much older man, instead he looked in his 20's or so (the last time Chiyo saw him). That's what I mean by perception of soul.
 * I thought I made that clear.
 * Still a faulty example. Kabuto's mentioned that he takes the DNA from corpses or more than likely their last battlefields. (cite Jiraiya)

@Omni, that didn't answer my question though. Does DNA of a living being outside of it's body age in a sense, that if it was used to "clone" the said subject 5 decades later, would it result in x + 50 years old individual or just x ? @Cerez: There's no way he could age as a piece of wood, the preserved part was likely just one of his organs or just piece of flash, not his brain, so he couldn't appear older when revived by Edo Tensei Itachi's "blindness" was self-inflicted, if I blind myself by hitting my eye with a pen, it isn't reflected in my DNA whatsoever since it's not genetic--Elveonora (talk) 18:32, October 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Never said it does.
 * You see point above, it doesn't matter if Sasori's DNA got collected before he turned himself into a doll, or from his doll physical part.
 * Just to let you know, I don't see the Itachi case as a problem at all, you think I don't get what I do and you don't get what I mean you don't get.

No, it doesn't age. DNA is damaged and repaired at every moment, both by environmental elements and by the very nature of the duplication process. If it's out of a body and properly stored, it can be maintained in a stable form for a long while, though I'm not sure how long. DNA changes very little during life, it accumulates said damage. Considering Kabuto took it from graves, it's obvious it doesn't need to be in top shape. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:11, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

So doesn't that just prove my point?--Elveonora (talk) 19:50, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

No. If decay to the DNA did anything to the reincarnated, grave-robbing would give very poor soldiers, because their DNA would have had more time to decay and be damaged. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:02, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

Just throwing it in there, DNA does change over the course of your life, otherwise you wouldn't stop growing, or even age ( Wikipedia Page for Epigenetics:[])...but considering this manga was not written by a biologist i suggest leaving the science at usual level --ThatUser (talk) 02:35, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Epigenetics is about how your genes are expressed. Basically, it regulates which genes are "on" (being transcribed into mRNA and subsequently translated into proteins) and which genes are "off" (having their expression suppressed by other factors). That's the reason why we have different cell types, despite all of them having the genes for all proteins in our body. A muscle cell and a liver cell both have the genes which are expressed in brain cell, but those are off, so they don't have brain cell characteristics, because they don't express the same set of proteins. The nucleotide sequence in all of them is the same. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:48, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's Six Paths of Pain Dōjutsu
Although the six shinobi are still deceased, the fact is that they were each transplanted a Sharingan and Rinnegan eye, the same as characters like Kakashi. I think we should add to their infoboxes that they have the said eyes. Steveo920, October 20, 21:51

If they are the Six Paths of Pain and if they face those chakra recivers in their chest, then that means Obito implated a chakra receiver into himself (note that their sharingan and rinnegan are in the same eye sockets as Tobi's).--Droidkaju (talk) 02:01, October 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * The eyes aren't transplants, just "reflections"
 * I'm pretty sure it was even hinted upon that Tobi has a rod as well in his body--Elveonora (talk) 02:14, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

More likely than no, the Sharingan weren't reflections but the Rinnegan definitely were. It is also possible that Tobi didn't have a chakra receiver lodged in his body because of the fact that the jinchuriki were reincarnated and not corpses. He could simply have been using the Outer Path techniques to control them.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:52, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez, Outer Path's Six Paths of Pain/Rikudou no Jutsu is used with a Chakra Receiver, thus he has to have one in his body in order to "transmit" as well--Elveonora (talk) 19:38, October 21, 2012 (UTC)

How in the...?
I feel I have the right to ask this. I understand the person's body isn't needed for the reincarnation, the only requirement being the deceased person's soul and a living sacrifice as a vessel, right? Okay, so where in the hell does Kabuto keep finding these people's souls? O.o And don't tell me that every single reincarnation needs a DNA sample. IIRC, some of the reincarnated shinobi's bodies were destroyed in real life(therefore no DNA sample), and Kabuto claimed that while he couldn't reincarnate Jiraiya because he had sunken too deep into the water when he died, if he could get ahold of the Six Paths of Pain's chakra recievers he should be able to reincarnate him; despite the chakra recievers being attached to his dead body! It was such an absurd statement on his part, I'm beginning to become morbidly confused on just how this jutsu works. --165.138.142.66 (talk) 17:08, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

He said he could get the DNA off of the Path's weapons. If you recall, the Animal Path he sent back to Konoha pierced Jiraiya's shoulder and basically every blow that wasn't the final impalement could render DNA samples to recreate Jiraiya. As for bodies that were destroyed who is to say Kabuto didn't get the DNA before this time? He needs some piece of the Target's DNA in order to recreate their body.

Having said that, about the Souls, it's not literally retrieving their Soul, it simply means that the person has to be dead and gone, not alive or sealed in order for the Soul to be called back to the body. He doesn't have to lay hands on a soul (How the hell would you even do that) Just be sure that the one he wants to revive is dead and that their Soul wasn't sealed before then. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 17:37, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I think I understand better now. --165.138.142.66 (talk) 17:43, October 26, 2012 (UTC)

Everything you need to know is present in the article, reading comprehension and thinking are your best bet before asking. But to save you the effort, it's as follows: Simply, a life for a life trade.--Elveonora (talk) 21:47, October 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * a living sacrifice has to be prepared
 * any DNA samples that belong to the people a summoner wishes to bring back
 * also their souls must reside in "the other world" if you will
 * 1) the summoner makes a sealing formula around the "about-to-be-sacrificed-person"
 * 2) places the "to-be-revived-person's" genetic material on the seal
 * 3) dust encases the victim, turning his/her body into an Edo zombie
 * 4) Souls descend from heavens into the zombies, replacing the originally living

Transplant
The article should mention the fact that the summoned shinobi retains the transplantations he has underwent in his life. Nagato and Hanzô are clear examples of that. --Bad77Wolf (talk) 01:43, October 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to note, while there is no need to not say that transplants remain after resurrection, the article does clearly state that the revived are brought back in the state they were in at their death. So logically speaking, if they had a transplant at the time of death, they would keep it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 02:18, October 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe but I think that deserves a proper, more explicit statement, considering the importance of transplantations in the Narutoverse. --Bad77Wolf (talk) 18:12, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

A page of the talismans?
I don't know why there isn't. Some of the info on them can be transferred to a new page. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 00:16, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Appearing Asleep
The article currently, and has for quite a while, claimed that those revived by this technique appear "asleep" until a talisman has been inserted, but that isn't really the case. When Torune was revived he was awake and could even move on his own, and the two Hokage revived by Orochimaru could speak and, at the very least, walk when they were summoned. The only time the "asleep" statement is true is in regard to Kabuto's revived Akatsuki members, but that was likely because he had inserted talismans to bind their personalities when they were first reincarnated, just like Torune. Not sure how to better phrase this in the article, but it seems rather incorrect to leave it as is.--BeyondRed (talk) 08:16, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * The article says when summoned. It is not with reference to what happens to them after the ritual had just been completed. Changed the word either way.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 08:30, January 12, 2013 (UTC)

Jinchūriki
Hello, there's something I'm a bit unsure about. Madara says that a reincarnated body cannot become a jinchūriki, right? Then how did Obito manage to reseal the tailed beasts in his six reincarnated jinchūriki?--95.236.187.181 (talk) 11:01, January 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it was only for Ten-Tails.~ Ultimate  Supreme  11:22, January 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll say what I think about it. The tailed beasts that Tobi controlled in the fight against Naruto & Killer B were still sealed inside the Demonic Statue: Tobi just used the chakra receivers in the jinchūriki bodies to link the tailed beasts' power to each body. As such, each Path had access to its tailed beast's power, but the latter wasn't actually sealed inside the former, just linked by the rod.--JOA20 (talk) 12:32, January 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * An explanation of this is in the other relevant articles. It is not here because it's not related to the technique.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:20, January 29, 2013 (UTC)

is the "edo" kanji the same kanji used to form tokyo's previous name?? --Caseather (talk) 03:10, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. Impure world is "穢土." Edo (Tokyo) is "江戸." General Awesomo 03:39, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Release
Shouldn't there be a Page for the Release Counterpart of this Technique? --Kieronrob (talk) 17:05, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see the logic behind it, but I would hold that one off for now. We had a scroll with the name on it for Dead Demon Consuming Seal. We didn't have that for this one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:35, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Since we have xxx unnamed techniques, I don't see why this one should be an exception--Elveonora (talk) 19:21, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Bump, nothing then? It's obviously it's own technique, Tobirama doesn't seem to know about it--Elveonora (talk) 17:11, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

How would Tobirama not know about it? He created the technique, Oro and Kabuto only made it better/stronger. Like I said, I'm not completely averse to the idea, but I think we should have more stuff behind it before making the page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:50, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

The release part appears to be a different technique, it doesn't appears Tobirama knows about it, if he knew, he would have released himself, nope?--Elveonora (talk) 01:45, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe he didn't have the time to.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 01:53, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Madara had time with his soul being sucked away and attacking 5 Kage ._.--Elveonora (talk) 17:47, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * >.< True.--71.71.58.231 (talk) 17:51, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * He did not. What Kabuto was forced to do was release the technique. What Madara did, was once he was completely unimpeded, he seized the control of the technique over himself. He's still bound to the physical world by the IWR, just by his own will rather than a third party's. If Madara wanted, in theory, he would need to perform the same hands seals Itachi had Kabuto perform to be released. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:05, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, and that's why his "self-control no jutsu" is a separate technique and should have an article imo, he even did a handseal if I remember well--Elveonora (talk) 01:41, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * They simply said he hijacked the technique. Still not seeing it as a separate technique. Madara could do that because he has knowledge on IWR itself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:42, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Control without talisman
Should be added in the paragraph about the control of the Edo Tensei, that it's possible exercise a form of it also without talismans inside the reincarnated ones? In the last chapter Orochimaru say that his bind with the Kage is reinforced by the Hashirama cells in his body, so thid should mean implicitly that a basic control on the summoned ones is always been present in the user of the jutsu also without particular tools.

Or I'm misunderstanding something?--JK88 (talk) 16:28, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you are right...~ Ultimate  Supreme  16:31, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

The talismans never directly controlled them, just their personality and control over movements by setting them to automatic mode--Elveonora (talk) 16:36, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sound Four
Since the Sound Four will be revived in the next filler episodes, instead of having each member in a slot, why not just insert the team? --Questionaredude (talk) 15:55, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

Sound Five you mean, Kimimaro is already there ;D--Elveonora (talk) 15:56, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

True, but Kimimaro was temporary. --Questionaredude (talk) 16:10, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why would it be necessary to put only "Sound Four" when they all have names? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:23, February 28, 2013 (UTC)

We put each member of the previous Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist individually, no reason to change that with another group. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:02, March 1, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot about that. Thanks. --Questionaredude (talk) 03:15, March 1, 2013 (UTC)

Orochimaru's Arms
I think the statement about an intact soul is inaccurate to make. From the time he took a new host to just before he cut the four Hokages free, he never once used jutsu that required handsigns. It's more likely taking a new host only freed him of the pain of losing his arms, not actually restoring his ability to weave signs. VlenFlyheight (talk) 08:30, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe you're talking about the trivia point, which I agree with you on. After Orochimaru transferred his soul to Gen'yūmaru, he was never seen using a technique that required hand seals/hand related things since. The only time that he even remotely came close was after he was revived and he absorbed his chakra from Kabuto, but that was about it. Other than that, the trivia point is something that can go unsaid.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:20, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, he did preform a technique that required handseals, the Triple Rashomon gate, unless summoning doesn't count.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:09, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

He didn't wave a sign, remember, he has/had summoning tattoos all over his body. From what has been said, it appears that sealing of his arms took away all his techniques. I don't think what he did display afterwards counts as a ninjutsu, lots of his powers stem from experimentation like summoning snakes directly from his body, altering his body, transfer etc.--Elveonora (talk) 21:02, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

I referenced both the manga and anime. When he used triple Rashomon he bit his thumbs and slammed his hands straight down. Heck, anime wise they slow motion cut back and forth between the blast and him slamming his hands to show there were NO handsigns whatsoever. VlenFlyheight (talk) 16:21, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Chakra: Unlimited or not
In the article, it states that the resurrected (within this jutsu) have unlimited chakra. However, when the Second Mizukage used Steaming Danger Tyranny, he lost plenty of chakra. Or was it that he got tired?--Aeonophic (talk) 22:10, March 7, 2013 (UTC)Aeonophic

It dehydrated him--Elveonora (talk) 22:28, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Dehydrated? Where ever did it say that? It was simply stated that it leaves him in a weakened state, which considering Naruto, could be just about anything.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 00:40, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Think like this: all shinobi have a max chakra capacity. If they spend chakra, it takes them time to regenerate that chakra. When they're reincarnated with this, they still have the same max chakra capacity, but their chakra regeneration gets amped way up, to the point the chakra they spend is practically regenerated on the spot. When Mū split, the chakra capacity was split between the two. When the Mizukage allocated chakra to his powerful clone technique, his chakra capacity was diminished as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:50, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Gallery?
Would it be possible to get a gallery for the guys who were resurrected during the Chikara arc? I know they aren't important enough for individual articles, but images would be a grand help. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:30, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Considering they're not likely to be seen anywhere else since there are no articles on them, I support this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:50, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

In that case, could I please make two requests? Could someone find the relevant pictures, as I can only obtain ones of utterly abysmal quality, and can someone tell me how you make a gallery? I don't mind doing the work, I just have no idea how. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 04:59, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Help:Gallery.~ Ultimate  Supreme  15:45, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alright, two months later and I've finally made a start on this. I've only got a few at the minute, but I'll add more as I go get the pictures later. Sorry for the bad quality, like I said I can't get very good ones, but hey, it's a start. I'm still not happy with the size of the pictures either, could probably do to shrink it, but like I said, work in progress. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 20:15, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Now i added a bunch of pictures, in a bit better quality than before. Do we also want from the newest episode? or is that a bit to much ;). If it is, we can always take those we got a good picture of--Kasan94 (talk) 14:03, June 7, 2013 (UTC)

What happened to the gallery? I thought it was agreed since they don't appear elsewhere on the wiki a gallery was fine? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 12:29, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why do we need a gallery? References are more than enough for people to cross-reference the episodes themselves. The page is congested enough as it is.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:38, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

Infobox slideshow
So I was thinking: maybe it'd be a good idea to have the steps of the Edo Tensei (in their image form) shown as a slide show in the infobox. Thoughts ? --Speysider Talk Page 19:03, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

4th Kazekage
would it be safe to assume that, given that we now know that 1) With Minato Namikaze sealed and 2) the Coffin with "four" on it being an anime exclusive and 3) Orochimaru couldn't have gotten Minato's edo tensei to the coffin stage, but HAD killed the 4th Kazekage personally and had access to his remains: that the anime coffin with "four" from the battle with Hiruzen Sarutobi can be said, with this knowledge as a retcon, to have housed the Fourth Kazekage? We could at least put something to this effect in the trivia section, there is speculative trivia all over the site with less to go on than this proposal. VlenFlyheight (talk) 11:30, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. Kabuto confirmed in the manga that the fourth coffin was Minato Namikaze but failed because his soul did not reside in the Pure World. The only thing that was not canonical in that instance was the thought that Hiruzen stopped the coffin.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:01, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * there shouldn't have been a coffin in the first place if it was Minato, by anime retcon it could only logically be the kazekageVlenFlyheight (talk) 12:11, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * But It could not be the kazekage, as kabuto said that It was Intended for minato to be summoned, but that could not work because minato was obviously with the shinagami and so It wasn't him, and It also could not of been the kazekage as his bodfy was lying In a pit after the Invasion but I'm not sure if the whole body of someone is needed or only a little bit of DNA for them to be summoned anyway It was minato and It could of been the kazekage but If it was kabuto would of likely said so --ROOT 根ANBU_Symbol.svg(talk) 12:15, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * he only needed a spec of DNA for it to have been the Kazekage, and the coffin never appeared in the manga. 21:18, May 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * It is not an anime retcon, that's how it happened in the manga as well. Manga noted that it was Minato in the coffin, so that's the end of it. The reason why or even how there was a coffin was never expounded upon, but we can't just assume Orochimaru didn't try something unconventional in Minato's case.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:23, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's say Orochimaru just prepared his body but was YET to insert the soul--Elveonora (talk) 12:48, May 27, 2013 (UTC)

Chikara Arc Shinobi
is it really necessary to show pictures of them here? If so, why don't we show all of them?Norleon (talk) 11:05, June 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Read the comments, I think we agreed to show pictures of noticable Edo Unnamed Shinobi:)--Omojuze (talk) 11:14, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

random trivia
is it worth noting that with the exception of kin and zaku, every ninja that has ever been used as living sacrifice for edo tensei has been from the leaf village ( in both the anime and the manga)? Iowndisciti (talk) 07:39, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not true.--Elveonora (talk) 13:37, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * So far we've only seen Itachi's sacrifice being a Konoha-nin which if anything was just symbolic.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:51, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, I get the whole process in reanimation and stuff; it requires a living person and flesh or DNA of the dead. Now, if the person died because he was used as a reanimation sacrifice, can he/she be brought back with the same jutsu?

I don't see why they wouldn't be able to, my big question is at what point is the sacrifice considered dead? I mean could Kabuto have summoned Fu while Fu's body was still being used as the basis of Torune's reincarnated form? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 20:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the sacrifice is considered dead either when the summoning of the deceased is complete (when the ash finishes forming the body of the deceased) or when the technique is released, because that's when we see the sacrifice among the ashes. Most likely, it's the first option. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:01, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

Pics of unknown Edo Tenseis
Someone should get pics of all the unnamed revived ninja from the new episode!208.65.172.242 (talk) 13:28, June 17, 2013 (UTC) Carignan

Without Scroll
Orochimaru was able to summon the four Hokage without the use of a special scroll so shouldn't the descriptionof the technique be changed to reflect this fact. Tasuxeda (talk) 20:06, August 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wha?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * What not; Orochimaru has sealing formulas all over his body. He is a walking fuuinjutsu/summoning tattoo--Elveonora (talk) 22:08, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Cracks
Is it safe to say the cracks reappearing is due to usage of Chakra? Because Hashirama's body began cracking when Madara absorbed his Senjutsu Chakra.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 09:46, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

PRESSURE POINTS!!!?
My question is as follows: What...What...and WHAT!!!? This is just another convenient weakness of Edo Tensei, isn't it?--KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:57, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * It isn't exclusive to Edo Tensei, pressure points have living folks too, it's called tenketsu--Elveonora (talk) 15:04, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I knew that. But the fact that they're edo tensei.....-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:06, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's weird that they even have them. Thought they are dust/dirt/ash/paper or whatever--Elveonora (talk) 15:10, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you think the Edo's are only affected the way we saw them because of the Chakra Receivers? Based off what Hashi said, someone could do that with a normal weapon, right?-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:12, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Same thing Hyuga folks do with Gentle Fist I guess, so blocking the holes with anything would do.--Elveonora (talk) 15:14, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Understood. It just seems like Edo Tensei is getting less "perfect", than it used to be.-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:23, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

skin color
Is it worth mentioning that unlike the anime, Edos appear .... with more dead-like skin color in the manga?--Elveonora (talk) 14:51, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen, the cover volumes depict them with pale death-like skin. Though in the chapters themselves, based from the colored version of chapter 638, the skin color is the same as they were in life, just with added cracks.--Narutofox94 (talk) 14:59, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting. An inconsistency then, or the covers depict them with pale skin for dramatic effect or something--Elveonora (talk) 15:03, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * From what I have to guess, it's to have as many different colors on the volume to attract more attention so they buy it and for artistic purposes to show that they're dead but were brought back with forbidden means. I think it would make a good trivia point since it's consistent.--Narutofox94 (talk) 15:24, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

In the anime they appear pale at first but after "revitalizing" they get their normal skin color back, if I recall correctly. --kiadony --talk to me-- 18:12, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Madara's Enhancements
In reference to Madara's reincarnation being "special", the article currently states that it is possible to mix and match different points in a reincarnated person's life for the best result. Madara's statement about his chest-face in chapter 657, coupled with Kabuto's earlier comments, seem to imply that Kabuto simply reincarnated Madara and then implanted Hashirama's DNA (using an improved version of the Danzo method) in the hopes that he would awaken the Rinnegan, unaware that Madara had done the exact same thing in his lifetime. This of course doesn't explain why Madara wasn't revived as a one-eyed old man with Hashirama cells plugging his wound, but that may be where the "special" part comes in. Any objections to changing the section to reflect this?--BeyondRed (talk) 00:12, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere on the article that the Edo Tensei can revive people at an age chosen by the user, but I could be remembering false information. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:20, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's the thing, it does say that, but the series never did. We were never told why Madara is his younger self when others appear as they died, just that he was somehow special and Kabuto improved him in some way (which according to 657, meant adding the Hashirama face).--BeyondRed (talk) 00:29, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh right, I get it now. Well the series was generally very vague in regards to the actual work Kabuto put into Madara's revived form, all we know is he was revived younger and better than when he died, so there isn't much that we can say about it. --Atrix471 (talk) 00:56, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Butting in: There are no rules as to what form a revived person is in. If the normal rule is "appeared as they died", then Sasori would be a chunk of flesh. • Seelentau 愛 議 01:12, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Akatsuki Cloaks
I believe that Edo Tensei revive the shinobi with the clothes they wore at the time of their death, so none of the Akatsuki members revived had any cloak on them, as they all lost it in the battle prior to their death or, in Nagato's case, didn't wore one at all. So that must be the reason why the Akatsuki members were revived with these red cloaks on them. --LordofBraxis (talk) 12:33, September 8, 2014 (UTC)

Derived Jutsu
I don't think the derived Jutsu belongs there. Derived Jutsu means it comes directly from the parent technique and can't be performed without it. A living person can perform it, albeit at the cost of their life. The technique just takes advantage of Edo Tensei's regenerating abilities.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 03:17, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

Trivia unlimited chakra
I don't think the last point in trivia is correct. In chapter 591 last page, Madara claimed that there is a risk to this jutsu, Madara said if the person knows the seal they can release the edo summoning contract and in turn the person gets unlimited chakra, undying body so he stayed in this world, when the jutsu was released by Itachi the other summon returned to other world but Madara didn't he released the contract. The hokages didn't try to release the contract, so its obvious they and other edo tensei summons can also run out of chakra. I just want opinions before removing this trivia point and include these points in article.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 03:06, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Madara is a different case, I'll just change it.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 03:18, April 13, 2015 (UTC)

Tobirama's and Orochimaru's versions
Only Tobirama's and Orochimaru's versions couldn't bring the reincarnated back at full power. As shown several times over the course of the manga, Kabuto's version was said to be the perfected version of Summoning: Impure World Incarnation. As such, he could summon and wield dozens of reincarnated simultaneously, while keeping them at full power. We know his reincarnated were at full power due to Onoki commenting that Mu's power was the same it was in life, back in 546, and we've seen other shinobi such as Itachi or Nagato be stronger than they were in life, either because they lack illness (like Itachi) or because they were able to restore themselves to the prime of their power (Nagato). Orochimaru had yet to perfect the technique, all he could do is bring Hashirama and Tobirama (the only two Edo Tensei explicitly said to be weaker) to a hair's shy width of their full power, most likely due to their extraordinary capabilities.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:00, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Which is all conjecture that has no place in the article. You need direct evidence that Orochimaru's is inferior to Kabuto's, not a convoluted explanation that, among other things, assumes Madara is pretending to be weaker for unspecified reasons. ~SnapperTo 23:54, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Please learn to shorten the titles of headings you put on talkpages. 2) Agreed with SnapperTwo, once again, seems like a conjecture you came up with that wasn't. stated. anywhere. 23:57, April 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kabuto's version was said to bring back the Shinobi at full power. This was proven then Onoki said Mu's power was the same it was in life. Check chapter 546 to see that, and 521, Kabuto says something to the effect 'Created by Tobirama, completed by Orochimaru, its the greatest technique in the universe'! However, Orochimaru's, despite the knowledge he gained from Kabuto, was unable to bring back Hashirama and Tobirama at full power. In fact those are the only two Edo Tensei that were stated to be weaker in life. Tobirama himself said that Orochimaru hadn't perfected the technique, only upped the precision.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:45, April 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * And its not conjecture when the reincarnated by Kabuto were said to be just like they were in life by people who were trained by them or worked with them. Even if Madara is weakened, he's a special case like Tobirama and Hashirama, the exception, not the rule.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:56, April 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Your entire argument hinges on Onoki's one offhand comment being 100% literal. Even if it is 100% literal, it in no way is satisfactory evidence for your claim that Orochimaru's IWR is weaker. Here are some counter-interpretations, both of which assume Orochimaru and Kabuto have the same IWR:
 * Mu, contrary to Onoki's comment, is not 100% the same as when he was alive. For argument's sake, he's 90% of what he once was. That missing 10% is not actually perceptible because, in Mu's case, it's so small. Hashirama and Tobirama, being stronger than Mu, miss that 10% much more noticeably.
 * Mu is indeed 100% the same as when he was alive. For argument's sake, he was reincarnated with his full 1000 HP. But the perfected IWR has a 1000 HP maximum, and Hashirama and Tobirama are ordinarily 1200 HP. Without that missing 200 HP they cannot be said to be fully what they were.
 * Now I don't actually care which, if any of these, is the case, so please don't debate them. My point is that there's more than one possible interpretation, and for that reason the wiki cannot assume any one is true. ~SnapperTo 01:22, April 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Alright. If that's what the wiki needs.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:26, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Fūinjutsu Counter
With the ability to remove the summoner's control over its summon,would the Contract Seal act as a means to counter Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation? --Minatoblitz (talk) 20:38, March 23, 2017 (UTC)

Sarutobi
Should it be mentioned that Hiruzen Sarutobi was the only one who was able to negate the Edo Tensei? When he fought Orochimaru, he stopped the 3rd coffin. --†_JuαиPα™_† a message? 21:27, May 1, 2018 (UTC)
 * Before posting, you should read the article, where the circumstances of Minato's reincarnation are specifically stated...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 21:38, May 1, 2018 (UTC)

Confusion
The article states:

"Yin–Yang Release, as manifested in Truth-Seeking Balls, can negate the regenerative properties of reincarnated bodies, reducing their effectiveness and, if used to strike a vital spot, kill them for all intents and purposes."

Now, I'm not sure if the passage is simply written in a confusing manner, or if I'm just forgetting something, but what's up with Hiruzen eventually regenerating his destroyed body? He had his body from the waist up destroyed, and he was ultimately able to restore himself. The passage above makes it seem as if a reincarnated shinobi will die for good if a vital spot is hit and that any non-vital area that receives damage will never regenerate. I know "intents and purposes" is there, but having "negate" without "for a time" adds to the confusion. I would've just altered the passage, but I'm curious if there was some other reason for Hiruzen's regeneration. Munchvtec (talk) 18:11, March 24, 2019 (UTC)
 * Based on different topics on Talk:Truth-Seeking Ball and its archives, Obito's Truth-Seeking Balls hadn't yet been applied with Yin–Yang Release when he attacked Hiruzen. ~SnapperTo 18:50, March 24, 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Thank you for checking around. Munchvtec (talk) 19:04, March 24, 2019 (UTC)