Talk:Six Paths Sage Mode

There are a lot of incorrect things in this article.
In this state, they can also make perfect use of Yin–Yang Release.[3] Naruto has used it to rekindle Might Guy's extinguishing chakra after the latter had used the Eight Gates Released Formation,[4] as well as restore Kakashi Hatake's original left eye after Madara Uchiha stole his Sharingan.

Aren't these powers independently associated with the Yang marking on Naruto's hand? Considering that it's a power that only Hagoromo and Naruto had (and not Asura), there's nothing that automatically links it to the Six Paths Sage Mode. These feats would be associated with the Yang marking specifically, rather than a transformation Naruto is granted through inheriting the Sage of Six Path's body.

Additionally, they become immune to the effects of Truth-Seeking Balls,[4] and even become capable of manifesting a number their own

These are abilities associated with two different things: The Six Paths Yang Power and possessing the body of the Sage of Six Paths.

The Truth-Seeking Balls are associated with the Ten-Tails, its hosts (Kaguya, Hagoromo, Obito, and Madara), and people who achieve the similar presence of a previous host---namely Asura and Naruto through directly inheriting the Sage's body, although Madara can be included as well, since he literally became Kaguya.

There is nothing linking the Truth-Seeking Balls to the Six Paths Sage Mode. Considering that they originate from the Ten-Tails, manifest when Obito and Madara become the Ten-Tails' host, as well as when Nine-Tails Chakra Mode (enhanced by all the other Tailed Beasts) is activated by Naruto, it is likely that they are associated with Tailed Beasts rather than this heightened form of Sage Mode.

Naruto can take his transformation a step further by drawing power from all nine tailed beasts, donning a chakra cloak that appears similar to his Sage Tailed Beast Mode.

This might be the only part of the article to describe the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode as a separate ability from the Six Paths Sage Mode. Every other part where the chakra-cloaked form is mentioned, it's done so as an ability of Six Paths Sage Mode.

Too many times in the article is Six Paths Sage Mode cited for one of his other abilities.
 * No. In Jin no Sho, it was stated that Six Paths Sage Mode allowed for perfect usage of Yin–Yang Release, and such a thing was what allowed Naruto to recreate Kakashi's left eye and to stop Might Guy's Eight Gates side effect. The Six Paths Yang Power has nothing to do with these feats. Seeing how Asura could manifest Truth-Seeking Balls as well – and he was stated to have gained not Tailed Beast chakra, but Six Paths Chakra – it's clear to me that TSBs aren't directly associated with TBs, but rather with the activation of Six Paths Senjutsu, which Six Paths Sage Mode is a version of. About Naruto's cloak, it's an enhancement of Six Paths Sage Mode, he "just" added the tailed beasts' chakras to the mix. It's considered a variant of Nine-Tails Chakra Mode as well, check the NTCM article.--JOA2007:57, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Chakra Cloak
Thats from the article -> Naruto can take his transformation a step further by drawing power from all nine tailed beasts, donning a chakra cloak that appears similar to his Sage Tailed Beast Mode.

But thats not true.

A user of it gains a totally different Chakra Cloak (Ashura) and thats the same case with Naruto, his Chakra Cloak is a result of the Six Paths Sage Mode. Which he can use to manifest a Kurama Body THROUGH his Six Paths Chakra Cloak. It has nothing to do with the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode or the other Tailed Beasts.--Keeptfighting (talk) 02:35, October 1, 2015 (UTC)

Usage in Boruto: Naruto the Movie?
I just saw the movie myself, and the only transformation that Naruto took on was his Tailed Beast Sage Mode. He never used his Six Paths Sage Mode, you can tell by the pigmentation around his face. If he was in Six Paths Sage Mode, his face wouldn't be glowing. So why is it listed that he used this mode on some pages related to the movie? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:06, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * ^Because some users have convinced themselves that Naruto used SPSM no matter what due to ther being "no pigmentation" (in which there clearly was). 18:20, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

In both the manga and anime, and in Gaiden. When Naruto used SPSM there was no major pigmentation around his face, his face was glowing a bit but it never turned flatout orange like it did in this movie. Naruto was clearly using Tailed Beast Sage Mode, if he was using SPSM his skin would be it's normal shade but just glowing a bit. But it wasn't, it was all completely orange just like in TBSM. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:28, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh believe me, I agree with you, but "no pigmentation" is enough to classify it as SPSM. However, as seen on the article, SPSM as no pigmentation and yellow eyes. In the latest movie, he clearly had red eyes and pigmentation, yet it's still classified that he used SPSM in the movie. Pfft, I dunno what's with people these days. 18:52, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

It's kind of odd, as in the movie he has orange skin, a little bit of red pigment around his eyes, and his pupils are crossed. This looks more like TBSM than SPSM, as SPSM retains his normal skin color with a slight glow and has no pigment at all and has crossed eyes. As for a reason why Naruto didn't use SPSM, it's the same as in The Last imo. If he used it, the movie would have ended too fast and Boruto wouldn't have had a chance to shine. If Naruto created that 3 headed, 6 armed, Asura-like Kurama avatar after absorbing a bunch of natural energy. While Sasuke used his full-fledged flying Complete Body - Susanoo. They would have obliterated Momoshiki through physical combat alone imo or even simply using the physical prowess enhancement SPSM gives, he could take him out. But overall, Naruto still has it as it was clearly used in Gaiden. But it was not used in the movie. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:07, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * True. Had he used full power against Toneri, that wouldn't of even been a movie. And I don't want to suggest Naruto doesn't have SPSM anymore (because that would make some users' butts bleed crimson fire). But yes, I agree, from what I too saw, SPSM was not used in the Boruto movie itself. 19:12, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

Well what do you think should be done then? Some kind of vote or pole? Wait for others to join in? Cause honestly it should be changed to make the pages more accurate. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:23, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Presenting the correct information shouldn't ever be decided by a vote or a poll. But again, I agree with you, so we can wait until others chime in. If no one comes, then it can be changed to make things more accurate. If I recall correctly, SPSM was added based on a low quality trailer. 19:29, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * If I may throw my two cents here... After watching video with high quality, it shows pretty clearly that Naruto doesn't have pigmentation around his eyes. He does have reddish eyes, but not pigmentation. Now whetever Naruto is using either Tailed Beast Mode or Six Paths Sage Mode, I don't know. Just giving a little correction here. --JouXIII (talk) 20:10, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * ^Oho, two different accounts here. Interesting. One says there was pigmentation, another says there wasn't (at least, the red eyes are intact). Is it possible that both appeared in the movie? 20:13, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * In that picture posted on this Wikia, showing Sasuke alongside Naruto, when naruto enters his mode you can see naruto without pigmention around his eyes :)--Keeptfighting (talk) 20:20, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless there was third time, Naruto used Chakra Mode two times: during Momoshiki and Kinshiki's attack and during his fight with KinMomoshiki. The both forms have different markings in the stomach and neither has pigmentation around eyes.*EDIT* I looked again KinMomoshiki fight and markings in Naruto's Chakra Mode in that fight are definitely close to Six Paths Sage Mode. During MomoKin attack, the markings are closer to The Last design.--JouXIII (talk) 20:32, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * So it did indeed show. LSSJ4, anything to add? 20:25, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * @JouXIII, but Naruto clearly did not use SPSM in The Last. Not sure if markings determine which mode he used, because I assumed it was his eyes that did. So not sure what LSSJ4 saw differently then. SPSM consists of no pigmentation and yellow eyes. Despite the mode Naruto used in the movie having red eyes and resembling his TBSM more, it's determined the he used SPSM regardless. So /shrug. I don't wanna debate this for too long, so I guess it's what it is then. 20:41, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * True, Naruto didn't use SPSM in The Last. What I meant was that his Chakra Mode stomach marking during Momoshiki and Kinshiki's attack was similiar to stomach marking in his Chakra mode from The Last. Why there's two different markings in Boruto-movie, I don't know. Sorry about confusion.--JouXIII (talk) 20:50, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

I was referring to the slight red lines above his eyes after he entered TBSM when I said a "little bit of pigmentation". But you're right, the pigmentation is hardly noticeable and he has been incorrectly depicted with his face glowing orange before. Even in the Manga itself, so that can be written off as a simple error on the movie's part. Since lack of pigmentation around the eyes if the main defining feature of SPSM since Naruto's cloaks change so much that they can no longer be used as proof as to what mode he is in. So I agree that despite the coloration, he is most likely in TBSM now. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 21:16, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * During MomoKin-attack or fight with KinMomoshiki? Because I don't see any red lines... All I see are his eyelashes.--JouXIII (talk) 21:25, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

During https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxN1jr8EcGc this fight, is when I see the slight red lines above his eyes. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 21:35, October 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, definitely eyelashes. They do turn reddish, though, I admit that.--JouXIII (talk) 21:38, October 25, 2015 (UTC)

What's so hard to get and remember? SPSM is Sage Mode without pigmentation under eyes, that's how it is recognized, the cloaks do not matter. If Naruto has fox-toad eyes without pigmentation, he is using SPSM--Elve Talk Page 13:45, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

"Six Paths Kurama Mode"
Noticed it in the trivia point you guys were edit warring over. I don't recall ever seeing this term being used. For whoever added it, is there a source for it that I'm unaware of? Because if so, I'll gladly add it to the "other names" parameter in the infobox. 18:43, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently, the video games call Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode Kurama Mode. Arawn 999 (talk) 20:06, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * First, you need to work on posting comments on a talkpage without reverting someone else's edits, which you've done before.
 * Second, okay. Which video game specifically uses the term "Six Paths Kurama Mode"? Storm 4? If so, source? If not, then what other source uses that term? A user basically just added it in without any type of source to it. 20:19, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I didn't deliberately delete anything from your post, that time or now. What probably happened is that you edited your comment - or in the case of the Madara page, added a comment - while I was replying, and my reply saved over your edit. Second, I don't have a copy of Storm 4 to verify since it's not out yet, but that's what it's called on the Naruto Shippūden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 page. Arawn 999 (talk) 20:23, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's besides the point. Is there any source for "Six Paths Kurama Mode"?
 * EDIT: Removed it then. 20:29, December 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, Naruto's Tailed Beast Mode was called Kurama Mode in the Fourth Databook, so he's obviously not from some kind of video games, although it's true that the "Six Paths" prefix has never been added to SPSM Naruto Kurama Mode officially, it could be called so, but, of course, not in the articles. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 20:41, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

Was also able to track down who added it. Can't believe it's been up there for months. The user who added that is known to add unsourced material to video game articles. 20:42, December 4, 2015 (UTC)


 * While we're at it, can we do away with "Sage Tailed Beast Mode" which is also a fanon name? The term "Tailed Beast Mode" on its own is already questionable, since it comes from a chapter title rather than dialogue.--BeyondRed (talk) 03:37, December 5, 2015 (UTC)
 * I suppose. 03:54, December 5, 2015 (UTC)

Tailed Beasts' chakra as a component 2
Well, there's actually an argument between me and a guy called 8Gates about a TB chakra as a component of SPSM (Shikamaru Hiden novel statement). I think this issue was already discussed many times, and the most of us agreed that the novel is non-canon source, so the statement deserves just a honourable mention in the trivia section, but because of 8Gates persistence I must pick up the topic again to make sure if the opinions didn't change since that time. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 19:28, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * People like to argue if the novels are canon or not, but for now this websites considers them not to be. But if and once the anime decides to animate the Shikamaru novel, the statement will become more canon.--Elve Talk Page 22:17, February 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * Canonicity is not in itself a reason to put something in the trivia section. If a piece of information fits elsewhere in the article, it should go there. Just make it clear that it's only implied, and even then only in a particular media. ~SnapperTo 19:21, February 21, 2016 (UTC)

Boruto
Does this mean he's a user in game? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:02, May 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that means someone's made a mod for the PC version of the game. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 07:10, May 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * andddd this is why we go to the talk page before editing. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:28, May 8, 2016 (UTC)
 * LOL, don't trust every image you see on the internet, buddy :P 17:31, May 8, 2016 (UTC)

Renaming to "Sage of Six Paths Mode"
I'm thinking about renaming this article based on the following: The kanji 六道仙人モード Rikudō Sennin Mōdo are literally translated as Six Paths Sage Mode. 六道仙人 Rikudō Sennin is literally translated as Six Paths Sage, yet we're using Sage of Six Paths. Bot translations mean the same, but the latter would usually be written as 六道の仙人 in Japanese. In English, the latter sounds better, so we're using it. Now, there's little reason to believe 六道仙人モード is meant to be 六道 and 仙人モード instead of 六道仙人 and モード. My idea is based on these things:
 * 1) The Six Paths Sage Mode was never said to be a stronger version of the normal Sage Mode (from what I know).
 * 2) The modes in Naruto are usually X and Mode (Sage and Mode, Chakra and Mode, etc.)
 * 3) Madara is said to be 六道仙人化した Rikudō Sennin kashita. I translated that as Sage of Six Paths Transformation, but since 化した is a normal verb (past form of kasuru, meaning to turn/change/transform (into), the sentence would actually be transformed into the Sage of Six Paths.
 * Last but not least, this would also improve consistency throughout the articles.

So, whatcha thinking? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:32, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure if that's a good idea... From what I've understood, Naruto combines the Six Paths Chakra he got from Hagoromo with the Nature Energy, creating Rikudō Senjutsu chakra, meaning that his Six Paths Sage Mode is Six Paths-enhanced Sage Mode. As for Madara, unlike Naruto, he also had Rinnegan, meaning that he practically transformed into Hagoromo, AKA Sage of Six Paths. So in my opinion the name change would be unnecessary. --JouXIII (talk) 14:47, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * You understood that wrong. Hagoromo granted Naruto the mode. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:50, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... After some checking, Naruto uses Six Paths Sage Chakra (六道の仙人チャクラ, Rikudō no Sennin Chakura), which is basically Six Paths-enhanced Sage chakra, right? --JouXIII (talk) 15:09, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * No idea, but if we want to be consistent, it would be Sage Chakra of Six Paths. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:22, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * Is the chakra used for senjutsu ever called "sennin chakra" in Japanese, or is it always "senjutsu chakra"? Because if the former has been used, "Rikudō no Sennin Chakura" could just mean Hagoromo's senjutsu chakra rather than a term for a special type.--BeyondRed (talk) 16:29, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think it was ever called that. The term "sage" in general is only very rarely used in relation to "normal" senjutsu. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:20, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

Bump. I think the most important one is the first point. Where was it stated that this mode is a stronger version of Sage Mode? I think it's just an assumption based on the translation of 六道仙人モード as Six Paths Sage Mode. Even if we'd keep that translation, it could very well be just another way of applying natural energy (as is Sage Transformation). But since Sage of Six Paths Mode is more logical and consistent (after all, it's a mode granted by the So6P), I think it's not true that it's a stronger SM. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:50, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, there's still that toad eyes crossed with fox thing going on and toad eyes means Sage Mode in Naruto's case.--Elve Talk Page 12:03, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * But it would imply that it turns the user into Hagoromo, which would be true only to Madara, since he has both Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu. Naruto doesn't have Rinnegan, only Six Paths Senjutsu. Also, last time I checked you can't fly with regular Sgae Mode and as shown with Sasuke and Kakashi, Six Paths Chakra(which Hagoromo did gave to Naruto) empowers ones abilities considerably. --JouXIII (talk) 12:09, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Nothing implies that it turns the user into Hagoromo and nothing speaks against Naruto using Sage Mode and SoSP Mode in unison. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:21, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except Sage of Six Paths = Hagoromo and he has Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu, where Naruto only has latter. --JouXIII (talk) 12:43, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's called Sage of Six Paths Mode, not Hagoromode. It's the Sage of Six Paths Mode because it's granted by the Sage of Six Paths, not because it turns you into the Sage of Six Paths. Otherwise, Naruto would've gotten the Rinnegan as well. Madara is the only one who was said to have actually turned into the Sage of Six Paths. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:45, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Which is my point. Glad you got it. --JouXIII (talk) 12:55, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Have you ever thought why Hagoromo was called "Sage of Six Paths" or as you say literally "Six Paths Sage" ? Have you considered that it's because of Six Paths Senjutsu? So even if translation "Sage of Six Paths Mode" would be correct, I don't think it refers to transforming into Hagoromo, rather to being Sage of Six Paths and Sage of Six Paths/Six Paths Sage is one who uses Six Paths Senjutsu. /solved--Elve Talk Page 12:56, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Not to mention Hamura has Six Paths Chakra/Six Paths Senjutsu too, so that special chakra isn't exclusive to Hagoromo, it's just a special type of chakra. QuakingStar (talk) 12:59, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * So you all agree that the 六道仙人 in this term is the same as the title Hagoromo got? Because that's what this discussion is about. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:04, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * There's Rinnegan, which is called Eye of the Six Paths. Also, Madara and Nagato have been called Second Six Paths and Third Six Paths respectively. Have you ever considered that combining Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu made Hagoromo Sage of Six Paths? Also, no, I don't agree, @seelentau. --JouXIII (talk) 13:07, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then why did the manga differentiate between 六道のX and 六道X? As I explained above, both can be translated as Six Paths, but the first is literally of Six Paths. If this was supposed to be the Sage Mode of Six Paths, the Japanese name would've been 六道の仙人モード Rikudō no Sennin Mōdo, comparable to how it's 六道の仙人チャクラ Rikudō no Sennin Chakura and not 六道仙人チャクラ Rikudō Sennin Chakura. I hope that makes the difference more clear. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:15, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Idk if it's because I am still waking up or not, but I'm lost in translation. What is the correct terms you are proposing based on the correct kanji and translations?? QuakingStar (talk) 13:18, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * See above. It's basically about if the kanji are meant to be [六道仙人][モード] [Rikudō Sennin] [Mōdo] ([Sage of Six Paths] [Mode]) or [六道][仙人モード] [Rikudō] [Sennin Mōdo] ([Six Paths] [Sage Mode]) and I think it's supposed to be the first one, because whenever something is said to be Rikudō X, it's written with a の, for example 六道の仙人チャクラ Rikudō no Sennin Chakura (Six Paths Sage Chakra). So it would've been written as 六道の仙人モード Rikudō no Sennin Mōdo (Six Paths Sage Mode). I also need to point out that の is a possessive particle, so it's actually Six Paths' or of Six Paths, as opposed to just Six Paths. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:34, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * [六道][仙人モード] [Rikudō] [Sennin Mōdo] ([Six Paths] [Sage Mode]) makes way more sense since Sage of Six Paths Mode implies that Naruto(and Ashura when you think about it) got full power of Hagoromo(Rinnegan + Six Paths Senjutsu), which isn't true. The only one it would fit would be Madara, who HAS both Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu. So with current name, there won't be any confusion. --JouXIII (talk) 13:52, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then why is it 六道の仙人チャクラ Rikudō no Sennin Chakura and not 六道仙人チャクラ Rikudō Sennin Chakura? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:58, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Read what I wrote people. If Seelentau's Japanese translation is correct, then he is well... correct and should be renamed. Sage of Six Paths Mode does in no way implies that its user has 100% power as Hagoromo.--Elve Talk Page 14:05, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * Or this could be resolved by changing Hagoromo's moniker from Sage of Six Paths to Six Paths Sage as the literal translation is. For anyone who doesn't understand, Seelentau has 2 points: consistency with Hagoromo's moniker and that this is called "Six Paths Sage - Mode" rather than "Six Paths - Sage Mode"--Elve Talk Page 14:14, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * I have suggestion: Seelentau has Japanese contacts, right? So couldn't he ask them how they see the kanji of 六道仙人モード are meant to be, like is it [六道][仙人モード] [Rikudō] [Sennin Mōdo] ([Six Paths] [Sage Mode]) or [六道仙人][モード] [Rikudō Sennin] [Mōdo] ([Sage of Six Paths] [Mode]? That way we would get better picture. --JouXIII (talk) 14:19, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have Japanese contacts and asking a Japanese doesn't help much when they don't know English (and are translators). But I asked OD about it, let's see what her answer is. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:42, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Have you tried to extend an invitation to her to join us here yet?? She would be much welcomed addition here. She never answers my messages to I don't even try. QuakingStar (talk) 14:55, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
 * You haven't been to my talk page lately, hm? :P • Seelentau 愛 議 14:58, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Now we have two of the best translators here. I'm actually a tad excited. QuakingStar (talk) 15:05, May 14, 2016 (UTC)