Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-26107879-20181004003653/@comment-34194151-20181103165531

@Ninja of War I'll try this again:

Except all the translations clearly show Minato and kakashi attributing the speed to the technique itself. And your point about speed = more power for chidori is debunked because every technique benefits from extra momentum. more momentum means more speed and force, that is basic physics. Ohnoki literally lightened Ei so he could have more speed to blitz edo Madara, and then increased his weight at the last second for the absolute maximum power so they could bust susano'o. it was clearly stated by Gai that the TECHNIQUE pushes the limits of the human body, or alternatively in another translation," it's secret lies in the impossible speed of it's stroke". The context is always the technique when the user is running, not just the user. Not just the arm. You are literally going against the manga. I see the logic of your interpretation but it's been debunked. nothing says the user has to be already "fast" as prerequisite. Why? The argument of you and others has three problematic implications:

1:Ninjas faster than part one weightless rock lee always run at a slower speed than their max speed to avoid tunnel vision. Nothing substantiates the claim, and it's also illogical. Why would ninjas intentionally run slower and give their opponents more time to react to their speed blitzes?

2) That The rasengan doesn't benefit from the speed of the user, as they clearly are seen running in a straight line with the technique much like chidori, and yet there isn't any tunnel vision issues. The faster naruto runs with rasengan, the more force that will be imparted when he tags his opponent with it. The speed at which rasengan is applied is a good benefit to have, but it isn't absolutely necessary to run, the jutsu itself has enough destructive power, as seen when naruto was STANDING still and nearly killed kabuto with it. Do you think that early shippuden naruto is slower than part one weightless rock lee? Do you seriously think that Minato himself is slower than weightless rock lee, yet we have seen minato running in a straight line with his rasengan more than once without any tunnel vision, and we know for a fact that rasengan does not boost the user's speed. Minato's running speed and kunai throwing speed is faster than kakashi, even when kakashi is using chidori. The rasengan and chidori are used in almost identical ways by characters faster than rock lee, and yet only chidori has the speed references. That is enough proof.

3) That rock lee and might guy are idiots, because clearly they both have run at their top speed in a straight line without any noted tunnel vision issues. Where was rock lee's tunnel vision when he entered the 5th gate and blitzed the living hell out of gaara in a straight line, and then kicked him into the air'''? But yet with the interpretations used by the opposition, rock lee is now claiming that simply running in a straight line causes tunnel vision? where is the logic in that? IT's obvious that the reason chidori causes tunnel vision is because it doesn't boost the user's reflexes/visual perception, which is why the SHARINGAN, the pinnacle of reflex boost and perception, fixes the issue. All other techniques that have boosted speed to ridiculous levels, like bijuu chakra cloaks, the eight gates, or raiton armor have been explicitly stated or implied to boost all of the user's physical traits, including their reflexes. We literally see that 8 gates and 7 gates guy blitzed juubidara,in guess what, a STRAIGHT LINE. Gaara clearly stated that Guy's movements were inhuman. so this argument has been debunked. Traveling in a straight line at a high speed isn't the issue, it's doing those two things with a speed boost that your reflexes can't handle.

In the next section, we have the quotes that opposition has consistently failed to address properly. Translation 1 from minato chapter 240: "And one more thing kakashi, about that new jutsu of yours, you shouldn't use it anymore. From what I saw, it's a strike with a single focus. It certainly has speed and power, but it makes you move too fast to ascertain the opponent's counterattack. IT is still "imperfect" Translation two:

"A thrust all concentrated in one point, of course you have the destructive power and speed, but because of the speed of your movements are so fast, you can't see the opponent's counter. Because of that, it is an incomplete jutsu"

This interpretation has more ambiguity, but is essentially identical to the first. The jutsu is the context of minato attributing speed and power to kakashi. By the logic of the opposition, minato is talking about kakashi's physical strength, which doesn't make sense. Minato also is more than aware of kakashi's normal running speed. After all the time they have been together, why would kakashi running in a straight line with his best speed suddenly be an issue? It's obvious that with chidori, kakashi's speed increased. Which is why minato banned the technique. You're argument that chidori needs the user's speed to be at a certain level as a prereq is further debunked, because we have seen chidori and raikiri being used by sasuke and kakashi when they were standing still, and they have even used raikiri/chidori to add raiton chakra to kunai and other weapons. so it's been debunked. IT's obvious that once they start running with it, the speed boost becomes the issue if their sharingan isn't active to add the necessary reflex boost, which is why its too dangerous to use in battle for sharinganless kakashi. it has absolutely nothing to do with his normal running speed.

Then there is kakashi's statement from chapter 240:

" With this jutsu, I can finish them in an instant. It's named after your alias"

Like, I genuinely don't understand how this isn't clear. why is speed attributed to the jutsu MULTIPLE times if the speed is supposedly just the user's regular running speed? There is no reason to claim that the speed is the greatest asset of chidori doesn't offer a speed boost. By your logic, raikiri is practically useless, because kakashi can simply use his "rock lee speed" and a katana and run at this "impossible speed" in a straight line and slice his opponent in half, without having to use such a chakra taxing technique like chidori. Mahiru has average durability, a katana to the neck would decapitate him. Raikiri is a raiton technique and all raiton techniques are known for their penetrative power/cutting power. the lightning chakra itself provides that, nothing says you need to run for the jutsu to cut through objects effectively, the speed boost is the greatest asset because speed gives your opponent less time to react.

The claims that other raiton techniques don't boost speed is irrelevant, because chidori was explicitly stated and shown to boost speed. Nothing says chidori variants don't boost the speed of the user, and half the time we have seen that, guess what, the user IS STANDING STILL. Almost Every time I have seen kakashi or sasuke apply shape control, whether sasuke forms a straight line, or kakashi forming a raikiri dog against pain, they were standing in a single position. Even the raikage can stand still with his raiton armor, so it's been debunked. the speed boost comes into play once they start running, like any speed boosting technique. Kakashi's purple lightning isn't stated to be a variation of raikiri either, so it's something completely different.

And finally, the chakra to the arm argument. See the thing most people miss is that when the chidori/raikri is first formed, you can clearly see there is a circle of chakra at the user's feet, and while it dissappears, that could easily be what's contributing to the speed. It doesn't have to be constantly visible on panel in order for it to have boosted the user's speed. @LoneNinja No I don't have to go anywhere else. You literally missed the context of my posts, and I see you haven't even bothered to go back and read, or otherwise didn't have the time. So I could care less about most of what you just said. This forum allows for users to have their own interpretations of the wiki/manga, so the chidori boosts speed until someone actually proves me wrong with something other than "the mods disagree". Your entire argument is based on people reacting to raikiri, which makes no sense because all the people who reacted to it were jounin level, the same level as part one kakashi. It literally took mahiru like 17 tries to finally get the timing down to react to kakashi's chidori. haku's speed with the mirror technique has been referenced to be extremely fast in both the manga and databook, so it's not surprising she intercepted kakashi. My point about the moderators is simple. That same moderator who thinks my argument is stupid also thought another one of my arguments was stupid, yet another MODERATOR agreed with the claims. Even if they both disagree with me on this topic, simply being a moderator doesn't debunk my claim, what debunks my claim is evidence from the manga properly presented and explained. I have yet to see any coherent argument from the opposition, and every time difficult points are raised, the argument gets avoided.