Talk:Shin Uchiha (Clones)

Kamui
It seems Shin was able to use it, the mini ten-tails like creature had the same Mangekyo pattern like Shin so it's Shin's power, the creature has shared vision with Shin's father it seems the creature doesn't have it's own Mangekyo, it takes pattern of whomever it is connected to.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 07:35, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, Naruto was referring to Shin's usage of Kamui. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 07:41, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless raws tell otherwise, Shin is a user of Kamui, whether it makes sense or not.--Omojuze (talk) 08:04, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Having the same eyes doesn't mean they both are users of Kamui. Just like Sasuke having Itachi's eyes doesn't make him a user of Tsukuyomi. And just because Naruto credited Shin as using Kamaui, doesn't make him a user.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:08, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes it does, Saru. "That boy can also use Space-Time Ninjutsu". How come that is not clarification?--Omojuze (talk) 08:11, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because he wasn't the one who used it obviously. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:12, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * To me it looked like he did, so that's your personal view coming in the way. That's why its the best to wait for the raws to clarify that. As of now, we are told that he had used it. EDIT: It could also be possible that both of them had used it though.--Omojuze (talk) 08:15, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Saru, just accept the fact he used Kamui. Naruto stated he did and the creature's eye had Shin's mankeyou sharingan pattern. --Rinneganmaster (talk) 08:18, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Naruto did not call it Kamui. The swirl is the same and we know that a dojutsu can be learned by different users (Amaterasu). So yes, for now, Shin and Migi have it. • Seelentau 愛 議 08:39, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Naruto said he knew Space–Time Ninjutsu, doesn't mean he was referring to Shin. And they share the same eye, but that doesn't mean they both have leaned Kamui, as Migi could of learned it separately after gaining the MS. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 09:17, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes Saru it is correct, that small creature next to him used Kamui, it seems as though Naruto wasn't able to see that creature but isn't it obvious that those who have same Mangekyo pattern can do same sets of Jutsu. We haven't come across anything like this before but take a look at Obito and Kakashi, same mangekyo pattern, of course they were Obito's eyes but Kakashi was able to learn Kamui-long range.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 10:18, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what the raws will show or confirm, but in any case we don't to have things spelled out for us. Shin's Mangekyō pattern and the little squirts' (is Migi really the name?) is the same. Listing him correct UNLESS there's a clear rebuttal.--Minamoto15 (Talk) 10:47, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Mecha - My point is since they share the same eyes, they should be able to perform the same techniques, but only once they learn it or become capable of using said technique. Madara and Hagoromo have the same design of Rinnegan, but that doesn't mean Hagoromo should be listed as a user of Limbo: Border Jail.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:56, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I am with Sarutobii2 on this, to consider Shin as Kamui user he must use it first, right now only Migi thing was one to use it.So or we accept Migi and Shin as same person, or Shin does not have Kamui atm. ./ Rage gtx (talk) 11:06, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * All right then, I agree with Saru, we don't know if they are one thing or separate beings but as of now Migi used it so listing Shin as a user could be wrong.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 11:25, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Shin didn't use Kamui. I don't know what to discuss here.Faust-RSI (talk) 11:30, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Wasn't the shuriken thing he did Kamui? I know weapons came from Obito's eyes when he expelled them, but maybe this is some new version, ranged like Kakashi's but can also expel stuff.--Elve Talk Page 11:38, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * There is one small flaw in that though, @Saru - Naruto, or anyone else for the matter, don't appear to even know of the creature's existance, as it was not referenced in any way. Also, why would he use "can also" against an enemy that he did not fight?--Omojuze (talk) 11:55, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * You answered your own question Omojuze, if Naruto didn't notice that creature, of course he would think shin was the one who used Kamui. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:01, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Now that's really worth thing to discuss, Elve, but people here seem to argue about Naruto's reference, which sure doesn't prove Kamui's usage, because he referenced the point at which Shin didn't used it. Faust-RSI (talk) 12:08, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Saru then he would say "someone is using a space-time ninjutsu". Don't jump into speculation or let your personal distaste misguide you.--Omojuze (talk) 12:18, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Omo Unlike Naruto, everyone who read the chapter could see that the 1 eyed thing performed the technique. If Naruto himself read the chapter from our point of view, ofcourse he would say "something is using a space-time ninjutsu". --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:38, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not everyone, as it wasn't clear whether the creature, Shin OR both of them used it. Also: So... Naruto doesn't have a 3-dimensional view of his surroundings? Because it sure does sound like you're saying that. If someone would've transported Shin, he definitely would've said something along the lines of "someone's using a Space-Time Ninjutsu". But now he said that it was him. This could as well be an error art-wise, you know?--Omojuze (talk) 14:13, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

It was most definitely Kamui. Or did you all forgot the stuff Obito did when he got both eyes back? Shin has Kamui. QuakingStar (talk) 14:37, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * There is a panel showing the distortion around the mini creature's eye, so I thought it was the creature that was using Kamui, also it will get cleared in some few chapters, I'm sure Shin is capable of using it because of the same MS pattern, it seems he used long ranged Kamui like Kakashi, he attacked Naruto and kids with that shuriken weapon using Kamui, leaving it as it is for now, Shin is a user of Kamui.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 14:40, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shin was looking to his left, which was in the opposite direction from where Kamui was being used. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:48, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

It was Shin's Mangekyo active and Shin's design being used on the creature. QuakingStar (talk) 15:01, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Saru!! Shin has both eyes, hence both abilities. He can teleport himself while looking at any direction, just like Tobito. xD--Omojuze (talk) 15:03, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Omojuze big issue in you reasoning it that eye that casted Kamui was in Migi and Shin did not show anything that we can relate with that cast. And we deleted Madara's Ama because he never used it, so until Shin himself casts it or Migi will be confirmed to be controlled by him in time of cast, he has no Kamui.
 * On side note why we still didn't created page for that telekinetic jutsu Shin used on his chained shuriken? ./ Rage gtx (talk) 15:34, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Big issue easily solved with a) Shin was credited to use it, b) Shin could've used it on the creature OR both the creature and Shin can use it and both simultaneously teleported. Also, there was no telekinetic jutsu involved, the shuriken just detached themselves and were launched in middair to the opponent (don't question Naruto logic >.<)--Omojuze (talk) 15:41, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, seriously to me it was definitely some kind of Jutsu, more emphasis was put on his Mangekyō, Naruto and Kids were facing Shin and it seems he was controlling the weapon (with telekinesis) with his Mangekyō Sharingan attacking them from behind, why would he activate Mangekyō? I'm assuming that shuriken blade weapon came from Kamui dimension and it launched mid air so he could control the blades.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 15:55, May 21, 2015 (UTC)


 * a)Just look second page it has next sequence: Shin's eye turn into MS, Naruto do blah-blah with his shoulders in chakra, Shin's MS eye do casting, shuriken falls apart and attacks Naruto and co.
 * b)And no Naruto's logic does not matter when we see with our eyes that Shin didn't use Kamui. . ./ Rage gtx (talk) 15:59, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

If Shin was using Kamui on that creature, why would kishimoto draw the swirls coming from its eye instead of the middle of its body, or better yet the swirls originating from Shins own eyes?? I doubt he's a user, so i ask whats wrong with waiting a week or 2 before being 100% sure he's a user?. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 16:00, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ufff.. I.. just.. I just... can't. Why do you people make decisions based on what you see or think and not what is told to you by the characters themselves? Welp, all hopes for the raws to clear it up, if the raws tell us that Shin is a user, there will be no use in denying.--Omojuze (talk) 17:21, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If we listed only what characters said themselves, Hanzo would be alive according to Kakashi. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:25, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * And that is a fail example because according to others we know he's dead and we also know that Kakashi is mis-informed.--Omojuze (talk) 17:27, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Shin's a user until proven otherwise. Since when does an editor's logic take precendence over the character? You guys are funny man.--Minamoto15 (Talk) 17:29, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * ^Exactly. Since when do we take sight into consideration when it's flat-out said that he used it? This is something that I cannot comprehend. xD--Omojuze (talk) 17:31, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Naruto said "He's even got space time ninjutsu". Did you's see him mention boy in that sentence? Because i didn't.  --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 17:42, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * He and even, regarding to his battling style. Did he fight anyone else to say "even". No. And he is what? A girl? A being? NO. It's a boy/male.--Omojuze (talk) 17:43, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * @Sarada, c'mon seriously? He couldn't have been referring to anyone else. You're going to debate that Naruto wasn't referecing Shin? I think you know better.--Minamoto15 (Talk) 17:51, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * That thing knows Naruto, so you would assume Naruto knows it as well. And by Naruto's response, its the 1st time its performed space time ninjutsu infront of him. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 17:56, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Everyone knows Naruto, due to him saving the shinobi world and being a Hokage. You literally are stepping further and further into speculation.--Omojuze (talk) 17:57, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Stop grasping at straws SaradaUzumaki, Naruto was referring to Shin. Shin has the Mangekyo and the Mangekyo he has was being reflected on the creature the moment he focused his eyes on it, because before that it had a normal sharingan. He used Kamui on it and himself. QuakingStar (talk) 18:02, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, to teleport two people at once with Kamui, the user has to initiate direct contact, if I recall correctly. No contact was seen (although it could've happened, but let's not jump into speculations). So, it's most likely that both of them are users OR it's not Kamui at all.--Omojuze (talk) 18:40, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, when Obito sacrificed himself against Kaguya he wasn't touching anybody but guess what?? He used TWO Kamui's at once. QuakingStar (talk) 18:51, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Great example. Totally forgot about that :)--Omojuze (talk) 18:52, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Chapter 676 page 1.. another example is here, Black Zetsu uses two Kamui's one on himself and one on Madara and he was not touching Madara. Shin has Kamui, enough said. QuakingStar (talk) 19:07, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

Also, is Migi the official name of Shin Uchiha's father's little plankton?--Mina talk 19:46, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, people just call it that because it resembles a character off Parasyte The Maxim. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 19:53, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow, how could I not have picked up on that.--Mina talk 19:55, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

So looks like there 3 sides of opinions on the matter. Those who say shin used it, those who say that thing used it instead and those who want confirmation that the technique is actually Kumai. Since it wont kill anyone to wait a week or 2, i say lets wait it out before adding him as a user. --Bio havik (talk) 20:56, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

It seems obvious to me that it was the creature that used Kamui. The swirl was centered around its eye, and Shin was pulled into it. And if Shin could use Kamui, he probably would have used that to escape from Sasuke. Plus the dojutsu Shin used to attack with was definitely not Kamui; it looked more like some sort of telekinesis. He made the blades of his chain-shuriken detatch and split apart, then fly at Naruto and the kids. That doesn't sound like Kamui, does it? FF-Suzaku (talk) 01:03, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Who said it WAS Kamui?--Mina [[Image:Uzushiogakure Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 01:20, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * This is kind of like how there are multiple users of Amaterasu and Susanoo. There seems to be multiple users of Kamui as well. And also, the third databook said this about Kamui, for anyone who's interested. 01:24, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Honestly if it was Kamui, Naruto would of called it that insted of Space-Time Ninjutsu since he's pretty familiar with the technique. The scene only depicted 1 kumai worm hole being used so it either was Shin or The creature. And the Kumai swirls were circling around the creatures eye so do the maths. --Bio havik (talk) 02:01, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * /shrug 02:02, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Naruto and Minato never once called it Kamui.. they always called it jikudan something. Even in the war naruto called it that so I doubt he would suddenly start calling it by what he knows it is. Also go read the chapter again, there was TWO kamui wormholes. QuakingStar (talk) 03:01, May 22, 2015 (UTC) Nope there wasnt. The litte guy w/ the one eye teleported both him and shin BoltUzumakiXD (talk) 03:05, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Ok so there was only 1 warp. But it changes nothing, once Shin stared it in the eye it had his Mangekyo design. Then the warp started. Shin had to be the one to use it. QuakingStar (talk) 03:08, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * but the real question is if shin has kamui, why didnt he just use it? LOL so its the little guys ability^_^BoltUzumakiXD (talk) 03:12, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

He never showed his Mangekyo til then. It also makes sense that he has it considering he seems to be traveling long distances near instantly on his own(Obito did the same thing..) they were each standing in separate spots when they were warped and they were not touching each other, and Shin was looking right at the chibi. QuakingStar (talk) 04:19, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
 * Quick question, there was 1 warp correct, Shin was looking left, away from the warp, so im asking has either Kakashi or Obito ever demonstrated the ability to use Kamui in there blind spot to teleport? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:05, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

We Sure He's an Uchiha?
It seems people are assuming he's an Uchiha simply because he has Sharingan, but with the latest chapter we're introduced to a new character whom has many Sharingan implanted on his body similar to Danzo but to a greater extent, which means Shin may very well only be an implanted user. Bentheechidna (talk) 01:34, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Duh, most of us know this, but it's a mini series. We'll get the answer for sure soon. We can't assume things Riptide240 (talk) 01:38, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Except you're talking about Danzo "Shimura". He's called Shin Uchiha for a reason. Anyway, there's too much mystery around the two to assume otherwise.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 01:44, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * His surname is Uchiha and he wears Uchiha emblem, yep, so much speculation listing him as an Uchiha, what a travesty.--Elve Talk Page 11:51, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I must have missed the page title clearly stating "Uchiha". /sarcasm --Sajuuk talk 11:54, May 29, 2015 (UTC)

MS Technique Name
Are we gonna name his MS ability? It seems from the chapters that his MS ability revolves around telekinesis or something to that effect, used to manipulate weaponry. Any ideas for what should we call this? Same applies to the father.--Mina talk  13:13, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * achem...--Omojuze (talk) 13:19, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * Damnit Omo. Alright then, case closed.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 13:21, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Father-Son Relationship
According to chapter 700+7, he is just the clone of Shin Uchiha. Can we change Shin Uchiha (father) as Genetic source, Orochimaru as Creator.--Sulina (talk) 09:05, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless someone provides good reason against it, I support this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:27, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Didn't Orochimaru say that Shin created the clones himself after he left Oro? • Seelentau 愛 議 20:45, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Rename?
Should we rename the page to "Shin Uchiha (Clones)", since the title makes it sound like they do not bare the actual name of Shin. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 18:41, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you can handle going through the articles to fix the move again, be my guest.--Omojuze (talk) 18:57, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:02, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Technique
Shouldn't this page be a technique article since its a cloning technique instead of a character article? --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 19:10, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe it was said that he was genetically multiplied by using his teeth and other body tissues.--Omojuze (talk) 19:11, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not a technique, lol. It's real-world cloning, as opposed to Naruto's Kage Bunshin. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:23, June 11, 2015 (UTC)

Final Name Decision
Enough with moving this damn article, damn it! Discuss this here and reach one final decision that will not change, save for new, significant information, at which point a new discussion shall take place before moving the article around multiple times in less than a day. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, my suggestion is "Shin Uchiha (Clones)", since "Shin Uchiha's Clones" doesn't tell us precisely that they share the name "Shin Uchiha". They are not his son by biological standpoint, so "Shin Uchiha (Son)" is also a bad way to go. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:05, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I had already told users to use the talkpage. Heh. Guess they didn't listen. Whatever name you all choose, I'll be fine with as long as there is a consensus. 23:20, June 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I've asked about it, and got a "be my guest". So that's why. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 00:15, June 12, 2015 (UTC)