Talk:Wind Release: Rasenshuriken

how has naruto not been able to complete his wind release:rasengan.

Has anyone noticed that the sound used when the wind chakra is slicing and dicing Kakuzu is oddly similar to the Chidori sound? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Boyzzz96 11:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Throwing
Why isn't it mentioned that Naruto couldn't throw the Rasenshuriken when he first used the jutsu? Otherwise the line about him completing the technique in chapter 432 by showing he has learned to throw it doesn't make sense. I mean, you have a solution when there's no problem to begin with right? Before any one tells me to add it myself, believe me I would, but the last time I did it got taken down pretty quickly and hasn't been put back up in all the edits since. --Mini9tailedfox 18:34, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I've mentioned it now. - Zero - Talk 17:32, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Appreciate it Zero--Mini9tailedfox 08:21, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, it was mentioned about Naruto not being able to throw the rasen shuriken the first time he used it when he was fighting Kakuzu. On the manga chapter 340, Yamato did comment, saying," It's called Rasen Shuriken, but it only works when you're right up close to your opponent." So I think the line about him completing the justu does make sense because he could finally throw it, thus finishing the justu.Boyzzz96 11:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Boyzzz, here's the context of my comment: Originally the article wasn't clear about the problem of throwing the FRS. There were comments in parts about Naruto being able to throw it during his fight with Pain, but never about how he couldn't throw it when he first used it against Kakuzu except in the Trivia section, talking about how Chouji had noticed it couldn't be thrown. I made an edit to state that when the FRS was first seen Naruto hadn't learned to throw it. Almost as soon as I made the edit it was erased and a drawbacks section was added, but still no mention how throwing the FRS was a problem. So, instead of starting a pointless revert war, I left a note on here that that it should be added. I agree that the article makes sense right now, but earlier it wasn't as informative as it could've been. --Mini9tailedfox 09:19, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Hermit's Art?
Isn't the Rasenshuriken shown in Hermit Mode Naruto supposed to be called Hermit's Art: Rasenshuriken because of adding sage chakra and being used in hermit mode? Cooltamerboy 17:40, 25 February 2009 (UTC).

Depends. I have no clue about the japanese but my guess is that Kishi used the character for Wind Release instead of Hermit Art. Unless the chapter was mistranslated where it should've said Hermit Art, I'd assume it was meant to be Wind Release: Rasenshuriken. You might want to try and ask someone who knows a thing or two about japanese (not me obviously).--Mini9tailedfox 10:18, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

How else has an answer? Cooltamerboy 04:09, 19 March 2009 (UTC).


 * A new article shouldn't be created unless he uses the name. So someone will have to double check the Japanese manga and throw a scan to ShounenSuki to check if a different name was used. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Mar 19, 2009 @ 17:42 (UTC)

Although he throws it in Sage mode, and the fact that it's infused with Sage chakra doesn't make it sage-mode exclusive, and therefore not strictly a sage art. When used in Sage mode it's not a different jutsu, it's just different execution. For example, Chou Oodama Rasengan cannot be used outside of sage mode (has never been shown, at least) and has only ever been used by characters in sage mode - Both of them using the 'Senpou' in front of it. Using Sage chakra with regular ninjutsu doesn't make it Sage arts. It doesn't become a 'Senpou: Rasengan' or 'Senpou: Kage Bunshin'.

?
The Rasenshuriken is not a Senjutsu.--Inferuno Ryuu 16:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

And Is It Still Kinjutsu???....He Did Complete It.....--AlienGamer

Yes It is. The only way Naruto can't damage himself is when he uses Sage Mode. If he uses it without it it's still a double edged jutsu. Of Course that's my opinion. I could be wrong.--Inferuno Ryuu 20:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The only reason that Naruto can't use Wind Release: Rasenshuriken outside of Sage Mode is because the moment it would leave Naruto's hand, it would start or instantly lose it's chakra and become nothing. Though this is only a theory, and even one that has me a little confused as Rasengan becomes self-sustaining once complete, so there is no reason Naruto couldn't have been able to throw the Rasenshuriken, other than maybe the Wind chakra would disappear the moment it left his hand, which I don't think that but hey, I could be wrong. --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 01:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)\

THE RASENSHURIKEN IS NOT A SENJUTSU, SENJUTSU ARE MOVES THAT CAN ONLY BE USED IN SAGE MODE HE CAN USE THE RASENSHURIKEN EVEN IF HE'S NOT IN SAGE MODE BUT IN SAGE MODE IT DOASN'T HURT HIM BECAUSE HE CAN THROW IT.

That's not true. Senjutsu are moves that utilize natural energy. The moves are enhanced by the natural energy, so they become more powerful. While most of the jutsu used while in Sage Mode have not been seen when the user is not in Sage Mode, that does not mean that the user is incapable of using the attack outside of Sage Mode. Therefore, in my opinion at least, the Rasenshuriken counts as senjutsu, as long as Naruto is in Sage Mode when he uses it. Oh, and remember to sign your posts. --Enoki911 (talk) 20:22, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Infobox
This infobox has been here for a long time. Whoever made it, can they either delete it or allow it to be used officially for other jutsus? Yatanogarasu 23:27, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The infobox still needs a bit more work, the form isn't quite ready and it's not supposed to be used with anything other than the form. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 21, 2009 @ 18:14 (UTC)

No offense, but that infobox makes the article looks a mess. Maybe we shouldn't use it (from the looks of things, looks like nobody even bothered to make any improvements to it). Yatanogarasu 15:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's been worked on since you last brought it up. There's still just some things to add. ~SnapperTo 23:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

name
Shouldn't the article name be "Wind Style: Rasen Shuriken". as the official name for it is "wind style: rasen shuriken", not "wind release: rasen shuriken".--Narutodude (talk) 05:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)Narutodude
 * This wiki's style is direct translations for jutu. We don't use the Viz translations as they tend to change depending on where it is..--TheUltimate3 (talk) 09:39, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In case your still reading this Lightning Blade is translated. Removing what you wrote doesn't mean I can't see it.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

sorry about that. I didn't really think before writing that, so i deleted it.--Narutodude (talk) 22:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC)Narutodude

Naruto Shippuden Movie 3
I saw the third Shippuden Movie today and at the end Naruto uses a triple sized Rasen-Shuriken against the villain. I also saw that it was far more powerful than the normal version and it created a blast even more powerful than the Sage Mode version (it made a crater 3 times smaller than Pein`s Shinra Tensei), but left Naruto unharmed. i know that movies have no connection with anime or manga, but I really do think that we should add this !!Art-is-a-blast (talk) 02:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all. Where did you watch naruto shippuden movie 3? Cooltamerboy (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC).

In Japan, yesterday. Art-is-a-blast (talk) 04:15, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

SO, are you guys going to add the info or not ? Art-is-a-blast (talk) 15:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Until it the movie is released than we will see if we can add it. Cooltamerboy (talk) 17:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC).


 * Problem with that statement: Its allready released in cinema's...--AlienGamer--Talk-- 19:07, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, so you don`t believe me. Art-is-a-blast (talk) 01:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

One-hit Attack?
when naruto first used it on kakuzu, it technically didn't kill him yet cuz kakashi had to go down to the crater and finish the job himself with the raikiri. i admit it is a one hit ko when used in sage mode but maybe that should be added to the page.

naruto killed him two times, but kakuza had 5 hearts, two were destroyed and as naruto hit him he had 3, naruto take two hearts and kakashi did the restScreamo-fan (talk) 17:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

the reason kakuzu survive and bofy was intact was because of his body is made of those treads thingLinkdarkside (talk) 20:49, January 3, 2010 (UTC)

expanded rasenshuriken
Is the expanded rasenshuriken actually odama rasenshuriken? Cooltamerboy (talk) 12:38, September 13, 2009 (UTC).
 * Expanded Rasenshuriken? --ShounenSuki (talk 12:49, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think he means the Sage-mode rasen shuriken...And y would it be odama rasenshuriken?..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 13:04, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

The sphere in the middle is as the same size as the sage art: great ball rasengan. So i think it's great ball rasenshuriken? Cooltamerboy (talk) 14:51, September 13, 2009 (UTC).
 * How did you compare? Jacce | Talk 14:54, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

It is shown. Cooltamerboy (talk) 15:05, September 13, 2009 (UTC).
 * Where and how? Jacce | Talk 15:11, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * He's probably talking about the Rasenshuriken that got the Pain that ripped people's souls apart, it expanded in mid-flight. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:08, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Yup that's the one! The sphere inside it is the same size as sage art: great ball rasengan? Cooltamerboy (talk) 16:12, September 13, 2009 (UTC).
 * No it shouldn't. When the technique is activated it is about the same size as a normal Rasengan. In Sage Mode shouldn't we go by the size of the Odama Rasengan that he used on the summons. In comparison, the FRS was normal sized. The size after it connects makes no difference. All Rasengans expand to a degree. The Rasengan in Rasenshuriken is still roughly Softball sized. It's just really really dense. Rayfire (talk) 16:17, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

So the rasenshuriken has no oodama variation? Cooltamerboy (talk) 16:49, September 13, 2009 (UTC).


 * No, it never has...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 16:51, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Then how did naruto make a triple sized rasenshuriken in naruto shippuden movie 3? Increasing chakra amounts to it? Cooltamerboy (talk) 16:59, September 13, 2009 (UTC).


 * You do know this isn't a Q&A site...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 17:00, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

human path
in the manga, when the rasen shuriken expanded and hit the human path, were there any chakra needle affect on him? did the rasen shuriken create a big explosion like when naruto first used it? 75.2.217.57 (talk) 23:12, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

wait nvm i see the explosion but were the miniscule chakra needles attacking him?


 * They're miniscule. They attack on the cellular level. They are too small to see, so, with the exception of the Rasenshuriken's debut, when we had to see them in order to understand what was happening, you will not see them. --Enoki911 (talk) 20:30, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Wait, so, when the FRS hit Human Path, did it form the awesome sphere of needles as seen when it hit Kakuzu? If not, what exactly happened as it hit Human Path?


 * yes it did form the sphere after expanding first to the size of the sphere then contracted and formed the full sphere, but instead of the poison like effect of the first version the improved version destroyed his entire body but a small part of his head, upper right Fawcettp (talk) 06:22, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Japanese inflatable Rasen Shuriken cosplay toy
I want to be able to see this toy, and see if it actually looks like the Rasenshriken.--adngo714 18:15, June 3, 2010 (UTC)adngo714

Dimensional Rasenshuriken?
When Naruto threw the Rasenshuriken at Human Path, it was only a 2-D flat blade, like Distructo Disk. But in the latest chapter (497), he throws it and it expands into a 3-D sphere. Am I looking at this correctly or should we change it to mention this improvement? --Zaxbeez
 * The shuriken just exploded like it did with Kakuzu.--Deva 27 (talk) 16:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * But did it happen with the Human Path? Chapter 432, Pages 6-7, it shredded Human Path but didn't get Animal Path, who was directly above it. -- Zaxbeez
 * The shuriken expanded and later exploded when the animal path was further away.--Deva 27 (talk) 17:06, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, an explosion, not an expansion; the two are completely different.
 * There was no massive hole when he hit the Human Path though. There was when he hit Kakuzu, and if it hadn't been in his mind, I'm sure there would have been a hole this time too. --Zaxbeez

Why!?
 * Why what? Zaxbeez

I guess why two different uses. If anything the variant he used on Nine-Tails would have probably taken out all of the Pain. Unless perhaps it has to impact to work? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:51, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

hey Douch bags why did you change the thrown rasenshuriken back to the manga version ?
 * Because the image has a bad angle, it's not like the one from the manga, which better showcases the sideway view of the "blades" of the shuriken. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Sage Art: Rasen-Shuriken
It is my belief that the whole reason Wind Element: Rasen-Shuriken is capable of being thrown is in fact Sage mode. In the original version, in normal form, the chakra used to maintain the containment would dissipate after leaving Naruto's hand, thus releasing the self sustaining chakra inside of the sphere, including the wind element chakra that is used in Rasen-Shuriken. However in Sage Mode, using Nature energy to enhance the power in the Rasengan, and by extension the Rasen-Shuriken, nature energy is present. Using nature manipulation causes the Nature energy to take on the responsibility of containment, thus producing the whistling and the shuriken look. So as nature energy is found everywhere, not just inside of Naruto while in Sage Mode, it would make sense that the sustaining chakra is present wherever he is throwing the rasen-shuriken. As such I call it Sage Art: Rasen-Shuriken, because I don't believe that without sage mode that particular Rasen-Shuriken is possible.

What you believe and what is written are two very different things. If the manga states it's called 'Wind Element: Rasen-Shuriken', then it is called 'Wind Element: Rasen-Shuriken'. Gojinn (talk) 04:23, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

New image
Every previous attempt to download pictures to this site has been a failure, so could someone else please add a picture of Naruto hitting the Fox with this? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 05:24, June 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * We do not need a manga image of the giant fox getting hit with a giant wind sphere. We already have images of the effects of wing sphere, we don't need another.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:34, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

Image:Senjutsu Fūton Rasenshuriken.png
Why do people feel the need to replace this image with images that show the same as the rest of the images on the page? I feel this image has more details, being as it is not glowing and obscuring details... - S im A nt 14:00, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * New one any better?..World Cup '10 EEENNNNNGGLLLLAAAANNNNDDDD (AlienGamer &#8285; Talk) 14:11, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. :) - S im A nt 14:17, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Direct hit
When the central sphere [] with his target, it works in a manner similiar to when he was fighting Kakazu.

When he is unable to make a direct hit though, he is able to expand it after it has been thrown, compensating for imprecise aim or fleeing opponents by widening the area of effect. The senjutsu chakra also allows Naruto to increase the Rasenshuriken's destructive power, as the technique that left Kakuzu's body reasonably intact has improved to the point of tearing Pain's Human Path to pieces.Thomas Finlayson (talk) 17:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * The sphere also expanded even when it didn't hit anything. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:32, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It grew larger, not expand and hit the Pains with the Cell targeting blades. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:08, June 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Grow and expand are the same thing, the sphere's radius increased and damaged what it hit. Now why it didn't increase as much as it did when it hit Kakuzu is beyond me. Either the one which hit Kakuzu grew larger because it was more unstable than the senjutsu version, or the Paths of Pain jumped and were thrown further than it appeared. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:46, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

There was a significant difference in radius (by a multiple of 10?), and the only difference between when used against Pain and when used against the Fox is that when it hit Animal Path it was on the edge. Granted it also cut up those rocks when it hit missed the Deva Path but I will put that down to some flaw in the technique (only works when it actually hits something with chakra/cells/etc, or else it could have been used like a rocket launcher in a video game where you hit them with the blast of a miss rather than a direct shot). With the Fox though the sphere had to impact. Moreover, if you look [closely] you will see that the Fox is in the centre of the sphere. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:56, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Why do you think the blades target cells? They're never said that they seek the cells to strike them, just that they have that effect when they hit cells. No such "it only affects things with chakra". You can see both when Naruto first practiced with it and when he used it against Kakuzu that there was significant damage to the area, it all depends on the part which hits the terrain. If it hits if the blade, it just plain cuts, if it hits with the expansion of the sphere, it makes a crater. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:58, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. But does that mean, not indending to put words in your mouth, you agree that it only expands crater style when his target impacts the central sphere? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:05, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. The technique cuts (blade) and "grinds" (sphere, using grind to differentiate what each part does) everything it can. Every time we saw grinding damage, it made craters. Not sure if it was shown against Pain due to dust or if people were lazy to animate it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:09, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Why change things? The only real difference between when Naruto used it (used, not at results yet) was how it hit his targets. Thus the difference in results must be in the impact. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:51, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

When Naruto used it against Kakuzu, the blades and Kakuzu's body were in parallel, when it hit the Human Realm, the blades were perpendicular to his body, and then he was hit by the sphere. I watched the episode again, and noticed that there where two expansions. First there was an expansion that happened like the blade, as if the entire technique had been scaled up. The sphere looked like it was about three times the size of Great Ball Rasengan. Then there was a second expansion, which made the greater sphere, similar to the one made when Naruto hit Kakuzu. By the distance which Naruto seemed to be when he jumped, he was further away from where the Paths of Pain were than he was from Kakuzu. It would mean that the spheres were approximately the same size, just seen from different distances, which accounts the apparent difference in size. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:05, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but could you clarify what you are getting at? That the sizes were the same and that changed the effect? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, sizes are the same, effect is different because of the increase in the technique's stability after the employment of sage chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:35, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but I do not see how that could be. Where could that difference have come from? The only difference I saw was how it impacted. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:48, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only difference in how it hits is the one I mentioned, Kakuzu was hit with the sphere, and the blade parallel to his body (vertically, so to speak), and the Human Path was with hit first with blade when it expanded horizontally, and then by the expanding sphere. In the end, both were hit by the sphere. You're not considering that Naruto uses that jutsu in Sage Mode, with sage chakra. Naruto is able to throw the technique because he used sage chakra to stabilize it. Before, the technique had to be used quickly, or else it would disperse. When it connected pre-Sage Mode, it would expand much faster, because as it was less stable. Post-Sage Mode, the technique is much more stable, evidenced by the fact it can be thrown, something Naruto couldn't do before. In the end, it did the same as it did with Kakuzu, it just took longer because it was thrown, because it expanded, and the damage was worse because Sage chakra is stronger than regular chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:10, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * And against the Fox? Now I see the problem. You think I am doing a Kakazu vs. Pain use, but I am looking at Pain vs. Fox use. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:15, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still applies, the Fox is big and it couldn't dodge the attack, the sphere hit it and became bigger. The sphere always expands and becames the big stuff that you're talking about. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:31, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, new tract. I do not think that the Animal Pain was consumed by the sphere, only the blade; for the top of his head was the only thing left for his upper torso (at an angle at that). That would not make sense if he was consumed by the sphere (should be a lot more left), but it does if he was getting cut up by it. Why was the Fox not cut up then? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:34, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Him being consumed by the blade only makes sense if you say it was his upper body. The blade cut him in half, and then kept on slicing him as his upper body fell on top of the blade, kinda like those industrial machines that slice cheese and ham, which makes sense, considering the angle of what was left of the head. Maybe the blade does this sort of slicing because it only acts in one bidimensional plane, unlike the sphere which has a volume, acting in a tridimensional space, which then would account for the cutting of the chakra circulatory system. About the Fox, maybe it is too strong to sustain such heavy damage, or it heals very fast and Kishimoto didn't want to use a panel to show the healing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:02, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Due to the lack of visible damage on the Fox as it was I doubt that would be a problem. Moreover, we do not know if the healing abilities apply to the beasts outside of humans. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:18, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Noise
I think it should be mentioned somewhere about the unique noise this jutsu makes. - S im A nt 18:33, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

It already says it gives off a loud bell-like screech. --Bathman (talk) 18:42, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh... indeed it does... but it also makes the screech after thrown. - S im A nt 18:49, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it could be added that the screech lasts even when its thrown --Bathman (talk) 18:59, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

GIF image of RasenShuriken
I think you should add a GIF clip of the Rasnshuriken being realsed and thrown. It would be cool.165.24.252.140 (talk) 16:08, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Can we Use this GIF image in the wind release: Rasenshuriken article
Can we use this GIF image of naruto making the rasenshuriken it would make the article cooler and more intresting.

here's the file:

OneMetropolis (talk) 21:37, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The image is of terrible quality, it has subtitles in it, and having a continuously looping GIF is extremely annoying and distracting.
 * I'd vote for no. --ShounenSuki (talk 22:11, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say no for completely petty and selfish reasons: Gifs tend to piss me off.
 * Now I think they work at the Bleach Wiki. Those are fine...
 * But still no.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:42, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * well it's not supose to be real clear it's just to give you an ideal of how it's used by the character. 98.176.202.51 (talk) 01:04, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well-written text and a still image do that job without annoying the hell out of people. --ShounenSuki (talk 07:36, June 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * ^_^ We don't even need to come up with excuses to reject any .gif related idea, Image policy... ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jun 18, 2010 @ 00:12 (UTC)

But I will anyway. And what? What? /triestoactthugandfails. /crysintowarcraftpillow --TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:26, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

punching the vortex???!!!
maybe I'm wrong but did just naruto punch the vortex away? how is that possible??? --94.183.84.226 (talk) 20:35, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

What vortex?Questionaredude (talk) 00:52, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Ranged version and Melee version
Does this make more sense? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:03, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * How are those two forms any different? --ShounenSuki (talk 00:10, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * The melee version is the one he uses both times against the Fox. It expands like a rasegan but holds its shape. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:25, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * He threw the Rasenshuriken at the Nine-Tails. It just did, what it apparently does when it makes direct contact.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:27, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ranged version also made the vortex against Human Path. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not like that, and when he threw it (get to Ultimate in a sec) before that never happened. This time it was different, explain what the difference was otherwise. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:35, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * @TheUltimate3, I agree for the first time it was used against the Fox, but the second? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:35, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Second time he basically used it, as it originally was. Just jammed it at his target. Doesn't mean there are two different versions of it.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:38, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm...point, and it would not hurt him since it was in his...mind, thingy. Okay, but what about a) punching it, and b) what made the first act so different? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:04, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * A) when did he punch it? B) What made the first time he used it so different was that it hurt him. Beyond that it worked exactly the same as it did against Kakuzu when he jammed it at the fox, albeit with a lot more power.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:14, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * A) as part of his finishing move against the Fox, or shoved it, something like that. B) Why not do that against Pain? Potential answer: the situation was different. Question: how was the situation different? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:45, June 18, 2010 (UTC)