Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180917010235

JOA20 wrote: The only time Naruto used Kurama to gather nature energy, he was already in SPSM. Why would he gain rings around his eyes while in SPSM? How much of the OP and thread have you read? I asked that because much of your reply has things I’ve addressed already. ICYMI, I’ll be quoting much of my previous replies here.

Naruto has gone without having rings around his eyes while in kurama sage mode, meaning outside of rsm. I gave evidence of this.

Proof #1 Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Naruto gaiden chapter 700+3 page 11: Naruto activates sage mode, rings appear around his eyes.

Naruto gaiden chapter 700+3 page 18: Naruto deactivates sage mode.

Naruto gaiden chapter 700+4 page 234: Naruto activates kurama sage mode, no rings are present.

This is the evidence you asked for. If there's nothing else, we should agree now.

Proof #2 Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Boruto Episode 38 @11:06 is what solidifies my stance entirely. Here Naruto starts off entering his part 1 initial kurama cloak, then progresses into kurama sage mode. Nothing here depicts rsm. Plus Naruto wouldn't use rsm during training against a few jonin, that's ungodly spite and not in the realm of naruto' character. This confirms my statement. This is naruto in ksm without rings around his eyes because kurama is gathering the senjutsu. There are 0 signs of Rikudo senjutsu, so there is 0 chance of this being rsm. Naruto never used a part 1 jinchuriki cloak on himself during the war, thats what he gave to the alliance.

Claiming that a lack of rings around his eyes equates to and indicates rsm is now debunked. Rikudo sagehood was never indicated by eyes, not for madara, obito and not for Naruto. Too much context exist today for that to be true.

JOA20 wrote: As for my question, you didn't really answer. In chapter 700+3, you say Naruto entered Sage Mode while he was moving, something stated to be impossible by Fukasaku (well, we know it's possible for those with Jūgo's Kekkei Genkai, but Naruto doesn't have it). Except I answered it directly. Kurama wasn’t involved until later. Those pages are cited in the above quote.

JOA20 wrote: For the piece about the nine tailed beasts' chakras, I don't disagree with you, but it's not stated clearly enough to warrant more than a trivia point. In the datuabook, all it's said about SPSM is that it was given by Hagoromo. Better stick to what is stated rather than putting potential speculation. Another thing: you say that the nine tailed beasts' chakras together make the Ten-Tails' chakra, but there's something missing in the equation. Thats ironic because you can’t point out in canon where it states clearly the eyes indicate rsm, but yet you attempt to hold the same rule against me. Even then I have evidence where it’s stated. Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: 4. You are only proving my point. Obito and madara were juubi jinchuriki that was their source of rikudo senjutsu. Well guess what, Naruto was(essentially) also a juubi jinchuriki. That means his source of rikudo senjutsu was similar to theirs. Similar in that they each had gained all 9 biju chakra. Those 9 chakra were acquired each aquired without any help from hagoromo. The mode itself only works with juubi’ chakra. Which is why Naruto waited until enough was produced so he can use it. Hagromo himself acknowledge the existence of all 9 biju inside Naruto. All this was stated in the OP.

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Multiple sources confirmed the cooperation and mixing of those chakra, I proved that already as well.

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: You’re conveniently skipping over major details. Like how hagoromo 'battled ten-tails, an incarnation of the divine tree and sealed it inside him, how he later 'partitioned the power of ten-tails and named each of the peices' and how ashura gained power through cooperation, and how he 'believed that the bond known as cooperation was true power'. and how he sees naruto as 'quite similar to ashura. Dont skip facts that inconvenience you. Iirc, you called it 'fluff' from the databook.

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Hagoromo believed in cooperation, Naruto being able to namr each biju meant he had theirs at that point. You are debunked, again.

Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: Hagoromo called out to each Biju chakra inside Naruto. He and the Biju verified them as one of conditions Naruto had met. There is another condition that is Naruto' mentality, which was necessary to aquire rsm. The juubi chakra is necessary to use rsm, this was explained in the OP as well as with the provided novel scan. Don't mistake one condition for the other. I keep saying this but you always ignore it. Rsm has multiple requirements hagoromo called them conditions, kurama confirmed Naruto met those conditions. I've been teaching you about one of those conditions. But you refuse to learn. You keep telling me about the condition that cause Naruto to receive rsm. I made it clear that this isn't about that. This is about the condition Naruto met to use rsm. The same way driving a car requires you to first aquire a car, to know how to drive a car, and to have fuel in the tank for the car to work. Naruto' fuel for his car was the juubi' chakra, as confirmed by multiple sources. Stop telling me about how he got the car. We all know that already.

You also repeat the same mistake I warned about in the OP and in my later replies. You keep bringing up that hagoromo gave Naruto rsm, which only confirms the condition of naruto’ mentality. As I just showed you the biju’ cooperation is also a condition to achieve the juubi’ power. Rsm only works with the juubi’ power. That is a condition for rsm. This condition isn’t reflected properly on the rsm page.

About the gedo statue, while it’s require to revive the juubi it isn’t required to achieve its chakra. I’ve said numerous times that Naruto doesn’t have the actual juubi inside him. Recreating juubi’ chakra doesn’t require the gedo statue, though it can be done using the gedo statue. Multiple sources confirm this. Including the novel that states Naruto was essentially a juubi jinchuriki. A feat that’s credited to his previous cooperation with the biju, something current Naruto has lost since vote2. As points of reference Naruto didn’t need his parents skeletons to greet their chakra, or use it to suppress kurama. The alliance nor the gold and silver bros needed kurama’ skeleton to achieve its power. In this case, the juubi is no different.

Since you’re ‘sticking to what’s stated,’ show us where his eyes are directly stated to indicate rsm or remove it from the rsm page since it’s the very speculation you’re trying to avoid.

JOA20 wrote: Long story short, Six Paths Sage Mode overwrites Sage Mode. Why are you suggesting kishimoto changed the 2 known mechanics of sagehood in Naruto(the mode and the transformation)? And without evidence at that. Throughout this post I’ve backed my many stances with evidence. So can you thoroughly and irrefutably explain how rsm overwrites sage mode?

JOA20 wrote: Naruto won't gain any rings around the eyes while in SPSM, no matter how much natural energy he gathers. Naruto isn’t gather senjutsu while in rsm, this was proven already. Just as he had clones send him nature energy against pain for a boost, he has kurama do the same for rsm. The difference is that when kurama gathers that energy, he doesn’t get rings around his eyes. There’s evidence of biju cooperation when naruto’ enters rsm. The same can be said when hokage Naruto enters ksm in gaiden and in the boruto anime. This is all fact based, I’ve directed you to all the evidence needed to warrant corrections.

JOA20 wrote: Feel free to bring up your arguments on the Six Paths Sage Mode talkpage, though. If I prove my stance true beyond any reasonable measure of doubt, as I have here, will the rsm page be updated? If not then from the start to finish, what exactly would it take to make the appropriate updates to the rsm page?