Talk:Living Corpse Reincarnation

Other dimension
Uhm, could someone clean up this obviously false information, this jutsu doesn't take the user to another dimension. This is just another one of those mental planes where characters interact mind to mind, just like the one created by Tsukuyomi, and the place in Naruto's mind where he talks to the Nine-Tailed Fox. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jun 22, 2009 @ 16:57 (UTC)

Real Name
According to the anime, would not Fushi Tensei 2 jutsus? (Furofushi no Jutsu and the Tensei Gishiki)

Specifics
when he switches bodies does he take the keikeygenkai from his previous bodies as well?


 * No one knows. The only people who can possibly answer that is Kishimoto himself. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:00, January 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * It would make sense. After 3 years, the body starts rejecting him. And I cant believe, Orochimaru would go through so much trouble to gain the Sharingan (First Itachi, thereby abandoning Akatsuki. Second Sasuke, which was the main reason he infiltrated the Chunin Exams) if he couldnt keep it permanently217.187.27.134 (talk) 23:21, January 30, 2011 (UTC)Timiursa

Name
Wrong name? Watch:  Nikutai Tensei no Jutsu would be correct.


 * A Portuguese IP, wrong about a name? I'm, like, so surprised. ~SnapperTo 16:24, March 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't be too harsh, the Japanese actually does say . It sounds like it's the name of the type of technique Fushi Tensei belongs to. —ShounenSuki (talk 18:12, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Body Time
You said that orochimaru had to transfer his soul to that unknown female's body due to itachi severing his left hand...but it happened when orochimaru left akatsuki,9 or 10 years ago(in shippuden's timeline),and u also said that he left this body after fighting with the third hokage,which happened 3 or 4 years ago. But guys,orochimaru has to switch bodies of three in three years,then it's impossible for him to keep 6 or 7 years inside the same host.--177.33.218.210 (talk) 16:40, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * The minimal interval between changes is three years. Everything he did preparing Sasuke implies he can stay in a body for a longer while if the body is stronger and able to sustain him. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:46, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

What Ombi said.--Elveonora (talk) 16:49, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

hmm got it,thanks--177.33.218.210 (talk) 20:49, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Snake not a part of the Jutsu
Look at the techniques description, Living Corpse Reincarnation sends the users soul into someones body, and when Orochimaru does this he reveals his true form as a giant snake, which his article tells us was the end result of many experiments. Basically, Orochimaru turned himself into a giant snake, with the ability to create a normal body when needed, but he sheds that body when he prepares to take another one.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:07, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree this wasn't used at all. I did mention it in articles though because there's none for the white snake itself but not because he used it. Alsooo check Talk: To Be Myself please. Sincerely, Confused.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:10, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm confused as well. -.- —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 13:12, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * This article actually gives us the best way to describe the white snake, Power of the White Snake. This article should be linked when referring to Orochimaru's modifications, not the Living Corpse Reincarnation.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 13:14, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, seems the best idea, and how about Kabuto? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 13:16, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

He channeled Snake-Orochimaru out of his chest and send it into attack, and then attacked with that body shedding thing, a technique we already knew he could do. Snake-Orochimaru did nothing of importance in this chapter except serve as a way for Itachi to use Naruto's Talk no Jutsu.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:19, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ah I forgot about that article it's a much better choice than the technique article.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:24, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see TU3. So we're going to add Kabuto as the user of this or not? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 13:27, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. He didn't shoot his soul into another body, he just made Snake-Orochimaru come out of his chest.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 13:30, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Living Corpse Reincarnation is used to switch bodies, he didn't do that. What he did use was Orochimaru's true form, nothing more.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:31, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

The snake was never apart of this jutsu, it is Orochimaru's true form. It's description shouldn't even be on this page, and the picture should have been changed long ago.--Deva 27 13:47, May 9, 2012
 * With the image change thing. Aye? or maybe something with Orochimaru in it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:51, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really like that image Cerez, I just don't know why though. --Speysider (Talk Page) 14:01, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

@Deva Um, does he not use his true form to swallow his desired host to initiate the jutsu? That would make it an integral part of the technique. Skitts (talk) 14:03, May 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's the best image we got of the technique. As we don't actually see how the technique starts.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 14:07, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * It gives the wrong impression though that the snake is actually the technique. I think an image of inside the world itself and just mentioning that he enters his true form should be enough.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:28, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^This.--Deva 27 14:35, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it's the closest thing we have. Hm, now that I think about it, in Part 1 when Orochimaru is about to transfer to Genymaru, we kind of see the beginning of the technique if I remember correctly. Skitts (talk) 14:42, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

So looking through all the scenes this was used, I think that's the best shot available. It shows several people that have been absorbed(?) etc. Apart from that there's a scene where Orochimaru is going towards Sasuke but it just looks like pink blobs because their faces aren't visible any at all.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:33, May 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. Skitts (talk) 17:40, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

alternative usage/form
Shouldn't we mention that in case of WZ clone it occurred differently? Before it was: Now it was: --Elveonora (talk) 14:42, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru transforms into his snake form and comes out of his host body
 * Swallows a new body, transfers soul and the snake body dies
 * Orochimaru didn't transform himself, but instead a bit differently looking snake came out of his mouth and entered WZ's body through mouth like a parasite


 * Ah, seems worthy to be mentioned.--~ Ultimate  Supreme  16:00, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Bump, somebody please do it, I would do it myself but dunno how to word it properly--Elveonora (talk) 17:47, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Added. I think it covered everything.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:22, March 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm still confused...I went back and re-read the chapters and all I have to ask is whose body Orochimaru's true snake from came out of. He left Gen'yūmaru's body when he went after Sasuke, then Sasuke absrobed his being into his body which was sealed away by Itachi and now Sasuke revived him thourhg the consciousness in Anko's cursed seal...so whose body is he occupying that allowed him to "slip out" of it and posses a White Zetsu parasite clone? Does anyone know for sure? OR did I miss something?  Banan 14 kab  20:43, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

None, he was hostless.--Elveonora (talk) 22:43, March 24, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously, am I the only one who remembers Sasuke telling Jūgo to fetch some of Kabuto's flesh? The body Orochimaru had upon being revived through Anko's cursed seal was made with Orochikabuto's flesh. That's the body he left behind. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:54, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

No, he was his own body, what he left behind was a skin/shell--Elveonora (talk) 18:06, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Which is what I'm saying. When Sasuke used Anko's Cursed Seal of Heaven to restore him he used a piece of Orochikabuto's flesh to make him a body. That piece of flesh is what became the snake that regurgitated the new Orochimaru body. As long as he's in a body, he can use the Living Corpse Reincarnation to get out as the snake form and take over a new body. When he took over the Zetsu clone, he left behind the body made with Orochikabuto flesh, and took over the Zetsu clone one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:29, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, what he left behind was still a copy tho, not a host, so essentially he was a body inside of a body. It would appear that Kabuto's half changed his form and Oro even got his memories, as speculative as it would be, doesn't that mean he now possess the stolen KKG abilities?--Elveonora (talk) 18:57, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Why wouldn't that body be considered a host? The whole purpose Orochimaru created this technique for is to get his soul a new body, not his body a new body. If the matter were simply releasing the cursed seal, why would they need a piece of Kabuto's flesh? Orochimaru got his knowledge after getting his own chakra back from him, he didn't have it immediately upon being regurgitated from the snake. We're playing it safe for now with the abilities Kabuto got from others because we had zero mentioning of that since then. My personal opinion is that he would have maintained all the abilities, since Kabuto did manage to integrate them into his body, and his flesh was used to make Orochimaru's new body. I recall there being a discussion about this somewhere back when that chapter was released, dunno if in the chapter's talk page or Orochimaru's. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

The reason why I just brought this is up is because "we" went ahead (well, some of "us") and listed him as a user of Wood Release, this is similar. About the host thingy, it was just flesh a clone body if you will, no soul to suppress and take over. Seemingly, his DNA now also contains Kabuto's as well cause his form is different and all that, at least that should be mentioned, would be nice to add a picture of that to this article or elsewhere--Elveonora (talk) 20:06, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Similar, but not the same. With the body he got before, we didn't know if the acquired traits carried over or not, specially after he left that body for the Zetsu clone. In this case, Orochimaru took over a body which possessed the Wood Release, and if I'm not mistaken, that was only added after Tobirama confirmed most of Orochimaru's body was made of Hashirama's cells, and so far every one who got the cells got Wood Release. I don't see how him having Kabuto's DNA is relevant, since other than the acquired traits he got through experimenting, Kabuto himself has no biologically derived ability. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:43, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

I don't remember orochimaru's form to be different because of kabuto's DNA It was rather kabuto's form was altered by taking orochimaru's DNA as such other peoples are but In a a manner of cursed seals and yes he has acquired hashirama's cells but I don't think through a white zetsu probably back when he did alot of experiments including danzo am i right ? -- User:Jmootam1999 Loves Naruto 20:54, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

As he was taking over zetsu, his snake form resembles more that of Kabuto's and also he took over differently than the description of LCR states it works, it's safe to assume it's cause of Kabuto's dna for as stated, his form was recreated with it included--Elveonora (talk) 20:56, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think It's to do with kabuto because kabuto has not enhanced his DNA into orochimaru or a white zetsu clone -- User:Jmootam1999 Loves Naruto 20:59, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

I fail to see anyway Kabuto's DNA could have any effect on Orochimaru at all. For all we know, that was just a stylistic change to make the action more fluid or whatever. Maybe Oro didn't see the need to grow his snake form to such great proportions to take over an immobilised Zetsu clone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:05, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I rather take a change was done for a reason other than stylistic, also you brought his body being from Kabuto yourself. As for why it's different, we don't know, it's been noted tho, so the topic may as well end here till more information, if any arrives. I just find it curious since his form was always stated to be made of many little white snakes and that he swallows his victim and takes over. Instead of transferring his soul into Zetsu's body, he did so with his whole body and it physically transformed the Zetsu instead of him just wearing a mask or whatever--Elveonora (talk) 21:18, March 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the idea that Kabuto's DNA had no effect on Orochimaru's body. He merely absorbed his remaining chakra from Kautos body anyway. Nothing genetic including DNA was involved. It was only involved when Kabuto integrated Orochimaru's cells into his body. And the new clone body theory makes sense.  Banan 14 kab  19:10, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

Things that Deserve Attention
So, there were two things that I would like to bring some attention to. First, I think it'd be best if we were to change this to fushi tensei. Second, and more importantly, I believe that the jutsu article should have some mention of Orochimaru also adopting the victims abilities. I mean, I would add it, but it would likely be removed due to suspected speculation. But, since we added the substitution technique to his repertoire, we should list Fushi Tensei's effects properly. Just saying. Any ideas and/or objections???? JaZZBaND (talk) 21:25, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

It's logical and self-explanatory though, I don't think it needs to be spelled out that he gets his host's powers once he occupies the body. Anyone who follows the plot a little bit should get it since he wants Sasuke for his eyes, strong chakra and etc.--Elveonora (talk) 21:52, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fairly put, but there's that ever present difference between dojutsu and ninjutsu in general. Kekkei genkai ( elemental like in guren's case) and Dojutsu (sharingan), but what about the substitution technique? I mean, it's not hiden, but it's a normal ninjutsu nonetheless. Also, what's your outlook on the Fushi Tensei idea? JaZZBaND (talk) 22:04, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Substitution Technique is unique to Zetsus and more than likely stems from Wood Release Kekkei Genkai just like Mayfly and others, we just need manga/databook to confirm an almost doubtless guess as a fact. For its name, well, living corpse reincarnation sounds stupid after all, Fushi Tensei is less tongue-breaking at least to me... kinda like most of the fanbase uses "Rinne Tensei" instead of calling it "Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique"--Elveonora (talk) 22:16, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that you put it like that, I totally agree with you! It's like I always do! Thanks lol. And as for Fushi Tensei, i'll make the changes immediately. JaZZBaND (talk) 22:19, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I just hope no one has a problem with that. I don't like to do things harshly on my own, but I think this is one of those times when something is done rather than talking to a wall hoping it answers.--Elveonora (talk) 22:25, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Please do not change the name of the article until you get a bit more consensus from the wiki users. I have absolutely no problem with Living Corpse Reincarnation because we're an English wiki, and at all times we should be using English and not Romaji no matter how refined it is. The only exception I see to this is Hotei technique used by Hashirama which is literally the gods name and has no proper literal translation.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 22:35, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * And Shattered Heaven? But right, should be discussed in detail. To you it sounds okay, to me it really doesn't, it sounds too literal. Can't it be an exception like Rasengan instead of Spiraling Sphere etc.?--Elveonora (talk) 22:56, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry people, I guess I acted in too much haste.... I apologize for that. But I also believe it's a little to literal, you know? I understand that we are an English wikia, but there are some names that don't seem like the best choice. Instead of going literal English, why not the viz or English tv names for the jutsu? Literal just seems broken sometimes, IMO. JaZZBaND (talk) 23:02, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wasn't that a game name? What's so bad about the name Heavenly Obstacle Quaking Star any way? I know that some techniques like say the literal translation for Shira Tensei- which even though I think sounds really cool- is better known by that name. That's why I remember Chidori and Rasnegan weren't translated. We can't just start calling things by their romaji name simply because it's a bit easier to say, unless we're going to do that for all techniques...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:04, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * No. Just because the Romaji looks better does not then mean the pages should be named such. The pages that have been titled with the Romaji is because they are commonly known that way, not because they look cooler. Unnecessary page change is unnecessary. --Speysider Talk Page 06:55, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

I was under the impression Tengai Shinsei was left untranslated for similar reasons other Rinnegan techniques: cumbersome translation. Pretty much all Deva Path techniques (which TS appears to be) are untranslated. ST and BT at least, I think it had to do with their "origin" from a four character idiom. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke as a Host
Should Sasuke not be considered a host of sorts, rather than just a failed candidate? Orochimaru's will was suppressed by Sasuke, but he did transfer his soul into Sasuke's body and Sasuke gained a number of his unique attributes, just as a regular host would.--BeyondRed (talk) 03:25, June 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not really. If you read the bottom of this part, you'll see that he revived himself through the cursed seal instead of LCR. Anko would be in the same category as Sasuke as Orochimaru was revived from her cursed seal as well.  Joshbl56  04:05, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, if you define "host" as a container/vessel, then I'd say yes. Sasuke was Orochimaru's "jinchuuriki" of sorts for a while 0_0 The difference is he was in control, hence the "failed" part--Elveonora (talk) 11:53, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Any resolution of this technique is based on the Orochimaru's control over an target's body and soul, suppressing the target's soul to manifest his. Sasuke was on the control, so he couldn't be considered a host, the technique's hosts are completely different from what Sasuke managed. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:11, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Orochimaru Did NOT Develop This
The article states he developed it meaning he invented it but that isn't true at all, if you re-watch the invasion arc during the original series or even re-read the manga, the way the third Hokage takes about the technique indicates that it existed BEFORE Orochimaru worked to master it meaning he found a scroll on it and dedicated himself to learning it. This is confirmed a few times I believe in the series. Please someone make this change.=Lord of the bored, User:Boredfan1= 21:36, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

Except the databook said it was.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 23:54, November 9, 2015 (UTC)

The thing is, you can't take the databook to be canon, it has some useful information to fill in the gaps but a lot of times, they just make crap up like they did in this series and didn't think things through very well meaning you have to take it with a grain of salt e.g consider what is in there possible to be true but take it as true immediately just because it is in there. Both the manga and anime if I can remember where in both confirm that he found the scroll he didn't know exist for a technique he didn't know exist so it would be impossible for him to have created something he didn't know existed unless he simple forget but Orochimaru doesn't simple forget these things. Sure, he may have made improvements to the technique, that isn't impossible and is actually very likely however, there is too much evidence that points against the technique having originated with him.=Lord of the bored, User:Boredfan1= 01:48, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

...Or Hiruzen simply deduced what kind of technique Orochimaru was trying to develop. The way Orochimaru talked about "getting everything in the world" and how it would take long time, it's pretty easy figure out what Orochimaru was talking about. --JouXIII (talk) 02:22, November 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * Except we do have to take the databooks as canon because Kishimoto wrote them.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 05:55, November 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * Agreed.

1)The Databooks are written by Kishi, therefore canon. In terms of how they interact with the manga, whichever comes last is the most accurate and up to date info.

2)There is something we call retcon. Kishi has done it before.

3) In terms of Hiruzen knowing beforehand, like Jou said, he could of deduced what Oro was doing. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if Oro had talks with Hiruzen beforehand under the pretext of speaking of "hypothetical" in order to gauge his reaction to such a jutsu and to get the opinion of the guy who knows every hiden jutsu of the leaf.--Umishiru (talk) 07:23, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Even putting what Hiruzen said aside, you can't ignore what I said about Orochimaru finding the scroll for a technique that both of which he didn't know exist. I'm re-watching the series out of boredom so I'll make sure to post here what episodes I am referring to so you can re-watch them lol.=Lord of the bored, User:Boredfan1= 17:32, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

To have something to begin with, can you just mention the episodes/manga chapters you're talking about? Ravenlot 27 (talk) 17:57, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Don't erase other people's messages bored. The only instance I recall Orochimaru finding a scroll relating to one of this techniques was an anime filler which suggested his Eight Branches Technique already existed. Oro stole the scroll when he left Konoha. Nothing else ever suggested this jutsu was anything other than his own original technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:07, November 10, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well that was quite rude of him to do. I know where I am not wanted.--Umishiru (talk) 22:30, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

Well, I reread a corresponding manga chapter and still can't unterstand where your version of the events comes from, @Boredfan1. When Huruzen saw the face of Oro's current vessel, he asked if he's already completed that kinjutsu. Enma's words also suggested this. And when we see the flashback, Oro clearly told Hirusen in the laboratory he's been developing the immortality jutsu (after some philosophic thoughts about techniques' nature and his own desire). I think it's enought to say Oro at least developed pre-existing jutsu (as with the case of Edo Tensei) or invented a completely original one. ("developing" still doesn't mean the same as "inventing") Should also note that then Oro had to explain to Hirizen the exact mechanics of the jutsu, if it existed before him, Huruzen would have known at least something about the details.Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:34, November 10, 2015 (UTC)

There are over three hundred episodes, I don't remember which thing happened in which episode lol. But like I said, I am re-watching the series so I'll be able to give you exact episodes soon or I'll get lucky and remember lol. The first episode with Hiruzen takes place during the Chunin Exams arc in Naruto Shonen Jump after Orochimaru starts fighting with the third Hokage.=Lord of the bored, User:Boredfan1= 18:40, November 11, 2015 (UTC)

I've read the chapter and watched the episode... And there's nothing that indicates that Living Corpse Reincarnation existed before Orochimaru or he found any kind of scroll related to it. Are you sure you don't mean scroll that Orochimaru found in order to use Dead Demon Consuming Seal: Release?--JouXIII (talk) 19:29, November 11, 2015 (UTC)

Bored, either you learn to make edits without deleting huge portions of the discussion, or you're going to get blocked for violating talkpage policy. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:11, November 11, 2015 (UTC)

Found it! Episode one hundred fourteen titled Eye of the Hawk. Skip to the 7:12 or 7:13 because this is what I am talking about though I have no idea what chapter this is in the manga, I never was good at finding specific chapters lol.=Lord of the bored, User:Boredfan1= 04:57, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Episode 114 covers chapters 344, 345 and 346... And surprise, surprise, it's anime-only thing, meaning that it isn't canon. ^_^ Also, the scroll that Orchimaru was reading has picture of eight-headed snake, which means the scroll was more likely about Eight Branches Technique, and its Triva-section already mention this. --JouXIII (talk) 15:48, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * I should also add the dialogue between Hiruzen and Oro in this episode almost (aside from the fact it's shortened a bit) completly reflects the same dialogue in the chapter 121 of the manga and in the episode 72 of the 1 season respectively. The major part of episode 114 of Shuppuden is meant to show Oro's biography and it consists of some previous scenes of manga/anime + anime only material. But that conversation was shown long time ago, and we know it pretty well, so this episode brings literally nothing new in the discussion. And even if we skip anime only tag on the scroll with the Eight Branches Technique, it still isn't related to the jutsu we speak about, thus nothing new again.Ravenlot 27 (talk) 16:05, November 14, 2015 (UTC)