Talk:Jigen

Leader
Was that actually stated that he is one?--Elve Talk Page 13:58, April 29, 2018 (UTC)
 * No. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:54, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * Good, because not only has that never been clearly stated, I think it would be strange for the leader to be number 4. For all we know, he is just second in command, the acting leader when the true leader is absent or something.--Elve Talk Page 09:13, April 30, 2018 (UTC)

black rods
Aren't they the same old Rinnegan ones? And yes, I know we haven't seen any Rinnegan from Jigen, but even the Gedo Mazo could spawn black rods without it--Elve Talk Page 08:47, July 22, 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about it. This seems to be a logical assumption but they work somewhat differently from the Rinnegan rods. I mean, Naruto said that the rods were absorbing his chakra, while we know that Rinnegan rods didn't have the absorption quality, only inserting user's chakra to hinder the movements. Plus, Naruto was surprised to see how Jigen's roads work, which is weird for a person who's already seen Nagato's and Momoshiki's receivers in action. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 09:24, July 22, 2019 (UTC)

Jigen's abilities
I don't think his ability to shrink and return objects to normal size is what he used to replace the furniture destroyed by Delta at all. Not only would this imply that jigen has a microscopic drink, lit candle, table, and food there? but we see the destroyed table to the side as well Kingomanoki (talk) 17:13, August 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * Dude, you should read the most recent chapters before making such remarks.
 * P. S. Maybe I'm not necessarily right, but the current ability of Jigen is more plausable for an explanation than some unknown technique. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:50, August 20, 2019 (UTC)
 * I...did look at the recent chapter. Otherwise I wouldn't be making such a remark. The new chapter showcases his ability to shrink and grow things to their original size. I'm simply questioning why would this technique be the same thing he used to create another table? unless you you're saying he had food, drinks, candles, and a spare table already there to return them to their normal size? But then again, it's not like i'm absolutely right either, I just can't see how. Kingomanoki (talk) 20:34, August 20, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with them not being the same ability. It would be silly to think he had a backup table, food, and candle shrunk down somewhere but to enlarge them when Delta got mad. Not to mention the destroyed table and items were still on the floor when he made new ones appear. Princeharris1993 11:38, August 21, 2019 (UTC)

Size Alteration vs Object Recreation / Wrong Reference
Jigen appears to clearly be using two different techniques. Jigen didn't simply enlarge a spare table he had, he literally spawned a brand new copy of the table, candle, food, etc.

Also, I don't know who is doing the references, but Boruto chapter 23, page 6 clearly shows Koji Kashin about to use the True Fire of Samadhi on Konohamaru and company, NOT Jigen using his Object Recreation technique or anything alluding to it.

I mean, would Jigen really keep a microscopic table, food and candles around just to enlarge them should Delta get mad and destroy them? Sasuke said Jiren has several secrets, and he didn't get a chance to state what the other one was.

"Outside of combat he also uses the technique for more mundane purposes, such as replacing home furnishings destroyed by Delta.[6]" - There is nothing in the manga that I can read that states they are the same technique or even hints at it. Would be nice if someone corrected the information on the page rather than assume they are the same technique. At least a reason for such conclusion would be nice. -- Princeharris1993 01:17, August 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, I wonder why no one has touched it yet or questioned it other than us. Kingomanoki (talk) 18:28, August 28, 2019 (UTC)

Ok now they've completely removed it.. Kingomanoki (talk) 02:33, September 8, 2019 (UTC)

Status
As revealed in Chapter 46, Jigen has been all but erased from existence. Should his status be changed to at least "incapacitated"?--Steveo920 (talk) 14:26, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * He was able to shed a tear after Naruto and Sasuke's defeat, so his existence is still intact. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:59, May 24, 2020 (UTC)

He's still there he just has no control whatsoever FlatZone (talk) 16:54, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * For me, his status is rather irrelevant, but shouldn't we move most of the contents to Isshiki Ōtsutsuki page? I mean, since it was revealed that Isshiki has controlled Jigen from the very beginng, shouldn't it be obvious that all his actions, abilities and personality belong to Isshiki and Isshiki alone? It's somewhat similar to Nagato using Yahiko as a Pain body - all the info of Pain-Yahiko doings still reside on Nagato's page instead of Yahiko's. Shouldn't we do the same to Isshiki and Jigen?Ravenlot 27 (talk) 21:51, May 24, 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 02:06, May 25, 2020 (UTC)

Relationship Status
Since Isshiki's page has Jigen as "Vessel" on the Relationship section of his infobox, shouldn't Jigen have Isshiki as, essentially, "Host" placed into his Infobox's relationship section, in reverse? I mean, it doesn't make sense having only one of them listed, but not the other way around.

HygorBohmHubner (talk) 04:06, June 19, 2020 (UTC)

Uchide no Kozuchi and Sukunahikona
So, i noticed my edit was undone by Omnibender, under the assumption that Jigen's ability to materialize objects was the same as his ability to shrink objects. That's false and the manga proves it. At no point in time did any character addressing Sukunahikona mention anything about materializing objects and restoring things.

In folklore, the could be used to "strike anything out that is desired" (aka, materialize objects), this includes even a mansion, amusing men and women, useful servants, horse and cattle, food, and articles of clothing. This lines up with Jigen having rematerialized a duplicate of the table and food, despite the originals still being on the floor. This could also explain how Jigen/Isshiki was also able to seemingly spawn the black rods out of thin air, despite the ability being eerily similar to the Black Receivers of the Rinnegan.

As such, the ability to spawn objects out of nowhere shouldn't be "grouped" into Sukunahikona, as they have been shown/explained to be two separate abilities, completely different from one another.
 * As such, I think the ability should be mentioned on his page as a feat, while remaining unnamed until it is revealed in better detail in the future, separate from Sukunahikona.

It wouldn't make sense for Jigen to restore a pre-cut steak back to normal size, even though he literally just cut the steak before Delta ruined his dinner. There's no way whatsoever that he somehow had a spare backup of his dinner and candles to just casually restore to normal size. The idea that he did is almost as ridiculous as some of the "talking points" on numerous pages since 2010.

-- Princeharris1993 19:30, June 20, 2020 (UTC)