Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34194151-20180924200707

@LoneNinja

1) Exhibit A, Chapter 433, pg 13-14. Nagato is clearly reacting to a rasenshuriken coming out of a smokecreen. rasenshuriken is mach speed +. Yet he reacted with preta barrier. And this situation is directly comparable to the one with naruto bee and itachi. Exhibit B chapter 441 pg 16. Nagato reacts yet again. He even has gained experience in reacting to attacks out of smokescreens to the point he is confident in reacting to high speed attacks coming out of them. Bonus exhibit, turn one more page in chapter 441 to pg 17, and nagato reacts to another rasenshuriken that was hidden within the first one. It was a surprise attack, he didn't see it coming beforehand, and he still reacted.

There is your proof. The fact that nagato could not react to a huge, long, yellow blade coming out of the smokescreen proves that the blade is faster than rasenshuriken, argubaly faster even then kn6 naruto. The blade was always fast, my point about orochimaru being surprised by the blade's speed still stands. People just downplay the blade by focusing on the fact that his opponents were supposedly completely immobile, yet they both failed to register a mental reaction.

2) chapter 686 pg 7-9. Kakashi admits he can't do anything. He can't compete. The characters he is with are out of his league. IF he tried to jump in, all he would do was get in naruto's way or get himself killed, which would disturb naruto's emotions and allow kaguya an opening.

3) I disagree. First of all, you are oversimplifying a few things. You missed the part where itachi wanted to die for sasuke. The whole plot point was that itachi's love for sasuke> konoha. Konoha came second. He did a half-assed job of protecting konoha because of that, but even then he still did his job within reason. he survived long enough for the akatsuki's power to weaken. with itachi's death, the akatsuki was down to half its strength. Akatsuki also couldn't attack konoha directly with him there. Without his love for sasuke/ self-hatred for killing his clan getting in the way, itachi would have probably lived long enough to join konoha in taking down the akatsuki, who by the end of the series was weakened to just obito, zetsu, and kisame. In death, his amaterasu trap was mostly to protect sasuke but it had added benefits to cover konoha's protection and blindside obito. But It's clear that itachi wanted konoha to pull most of its own weight in dealing with the akatsuki, or he wouldn't have let himself die. His hope was that sasuke would return to the village being a hero, and that he could leave the rest to naruto. Obito literally wanted sasuke badly, and itachi would have succeeded in stopping him, which is the whole reason he made that contingency with naruto in case amaterasu failed to kill obito.

Second of all Itachi was dying of a terminal illness. He didn't make any moves on akatsuki because that wasn't his job. Show me one panel of itachi trying to kill kisame, or even trying to hunt down any of the weaker members. even if he made a move, akatsuki members move in pairs. It wouldn't be a 1v1 fair battle. Itachi's weakness is stamina. If he takes out members, he overextends his hand and dies. almost any akatsuki duo have a solid chance of taking him out. He would be forced to retreat. Obito was the only person who knew itachi's true role in the akatsuki, not even nagato knew, so itachi had to do his job so that obito held his end of the bargain. If obito can't use itachi for capturing bijuu, then he has no reason to keep up the bargain, as that was the deal. ITachi helps akatsuki, obito can't attack konoha or sasuke directly with his full force. OBito already tried to destroy konoha but failed thanks to the 4th hokage. Itachi stopped future attempts up until itachi was already near death, and akatsuki was nearing its end game. and guess who took out most of the akatsuki members? ninja from konoha. If obito betrayed the deal and tried to kill itachi, then itachi had nothing to lose. Itachi would try to take out as many members as he could before going down. and he still had kotoamatsukami as a trump card. Akatsuki would still be weakened, and konoha would have a decent chance of winning. and like I said, obito vs itachi is complicated just like obito vs anyone except kakashi. IF obito really, really doesn't want to be hit, you can't hit him because he will just hide in kamui land and can escape if he wants to. In a 1v1 battle itachi could analyze kamui the same way minato did and can take him out if obito tries to attack, but obito isn't guaranteed to do that, and he could easily await backup to ensure itachi goes down.

404 pg 17 (Obito admitts itachi was standing in his way, and with his death he can pursue konoha with full force.) You don't consider someone you can swat like a fly an obstacle that you can only avoid once they are dead lol. at that point they already had 7 bijuu too. It was end game. Obito has no reason to say something like that if he didn't regard itachi highly as an opponent. Obito recruited itachi because like I said, they had an understanding. chapter 397 pg 12. Obito admits he would have been dead without hiding his secrets from itachi. one of these "secrets" was confirmed to be kamui. This means itachi didn't know about kamui.

I haven't made any further commment on the battle because that discussion won't go anywhere if you are claiming that konan is a better tactician than itachi, which has an effect on the battle. My argument is that that is simply not true, itachi lacked the knowledge that konan had. he was also already dead at the point his trap went off. a one time booby trap isn't comparable to what itachi could actually do if he was in that cave with obito and sasuke. You also downplayed itachi's tactics multiple times. I cited you feats of his tactics, like how he overlays attacks, keeps you guessing about how many moves he has enacted, and clone feints in your blindspot and stuff of that nature, and you're only rebuttal was that part one kakashi was irrelevant, which is unsatisfactory. Kakashi is literally just a placeholder, itachi's decision making skills in battle still remain the same whether or not kakashi was a worthy opponent.

Konan's tactic of using a ruse to hide her real attack is something itachi does all the time in battle, and I proved he does it better because he used a similiar manuever and he did it without unnecessarily risking his own life. He distracted killer bee with fireball shuriken to catch him in genjutsu, all while he was holding back the best he could not to kill killer bee. He distracted kakashi with shuriken and a water-style technique to set up his exploding shadow clone feint, and that itachi was jobbing too, meaning he can add more layers to his attacks. He feinted a perfect sage with a crow-style substitution feint multiple times. We have yet to see healthy itachi go all out in a battle. The few times he got the chance to he didn't need strategy. Nagato got one shotted by totsuka blade with ease. Plus, for the record, I have never downplayed konan. In fact, in that itachi vs obito thread from a few months ago, someone was downplaying konan's abilities, and I called them out and corrected them. I gave konan the respect she deserved, but she very clearly made a few mistakes in that battle that had nothing to do with obito surprising her with izanagi, mistakes that I don't see itachi making based on the feats I've shown.

I'm more inclined to believe itachi can lose this battle now only because his speciality is 1v1 battle due to his stamina and the nature of most his techniques. Team oro has a few counters for him I admit, but itachi has a few for them as well. It depends on who takes initiative and whether or not Kimimaro in character would use that bone technique sooner than later, so I'm not sure. But either way, we can't get to that point until the other stuff has been cleared.