Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-33229263-20171019104931/@comment-734582-20171023115911

LegionZero wrote: Hamura got his power by awakening it from within himself, as opposed to an external catalyst, as there was none mentioned. There isnt much reason to believe he was particularly old when he got the Tenseigan and accompanying abilities. There is no basis for this whatsoever. All we know is that late in life he had the Tenseigan, sealed it in the Energy vessel and died. Also, the Tenseigan gives TSB's. When or how he obtained this power is not mentioned or even hinted at. The only guarantee we have is that when they sealed Kaguya, he didn't have TSB's or tenseigan. It's thus entirely possible he got this power from Hagoromo or from the Gedo Statue. LegionZero wrote: Lack of TSB doesn't mean lack of 6PSM. In this context, it does. It makes no sense for them to not use it against the Juubi, if they had it. LegionZero wrote: (maybe a knack for Sage Mode cuz Hashi had his outta nowhere total speculation for him though). Affinity for nature energy seems to come naturally to transmigrants, since Naruto and Sasuke both had it despite being only a 10-20% chance. LegionZero wrote: Hagoromo giving his power doesnt necissarily come with all of his abilities. The patterns imply that he is only passing on his chakra (and with it 6 Paths chakra). The 6 Paths chakra would activate the dormant ability of the corrosponding bloodline only. While i agree with this, i don't agree with what you're implying here. The Anime suggests that Ashura got SPSM from hagoromo, but no such distinction is made in the Manga. He's simply shown holding nondescript black orbs (which, given the Kurama-like avatar, seem to be Bijudama).

To me, the suggestion here is that Ashura and Indra eventually obtained Six Paths power, hence the reincarnation thing, but not to such an extent as their father, hence they can't manifest themselves as true individual beings. Indra doesn't have the Rinnegan yet he has his father's chakra (that is, six paths chakra) and Ashura eventually gets Six paths chakra from his father (that he uses for his chakra avatar). LegionZero wrote: New eye scenario: Madara would have one original Rinnegan and one new Rinnegan which would have been more than enough to eventually take his 2nd original Rinnegan out of play. Still seems to me that Madara wasn't expecting to need the second one until Naruto and Sasuke showed up. He revives, kicks ass easily without eyes and then obtains the Rinnegan with zero effort. He brags to Zetsu about sealing the Biju in seconds. He gives Sasuke an ultimatum and then beats him with ease, after already having beaten Naruto with ease. At this point, literally nobody had the power to oppose him. He was genuinely surprised that Naruto could even kick a TSB and was shocked that Naruto could even sense his Limbo, and his actions become far more reckless since then. The time to easily gather an eye from the battlefield was over already.

There are other problems with this (can we guarantee the Rinnegan power can even manifest that fast? wouldn't the eye have to adjust to the new chakra and power?) but more frankly i think Dojutsu simply don't work that way. The Sharingan is created by a chakra from the brain that alters the optic nerve, so a genuine change in the eye results in a Sharingan. There's no reason to believe a non-uchiha eye has the ability to accommodate this special chakra and thus manifest a Sharingan. By extension, we could argue the same of the Rinnegan. There's little reason to believe that just sending some chakra signal to the eye would suddenly cause a genetic change in the eye.

Further implications arise from Orochimar's case, where cutting off the soul in his hands caused unavoidable degradation and loss of use. In this case, Madara's "rinnegan spirit" if you will would still be locked in his original eye, and so no matter what he did to someone's eyes, it would inevitably degrade. LegionZero wrote: When did Madara absorb ninjutsu without eyes? That would have to be a different absorption power considering that he couldnt use any other Rinnegan without the Rinnegan or else having the eyes themselves would be arbitrary. Sasuke casts Amaterasu on him and the flames just disappear. It's almost directly after he is revived by Rinne Tensei. I interpret it as being the same power as the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan however allows it to be projected into a barrier, which means you never get physically hit by the Jutsu (and so you avoid all sorts of potential side-effects).