Talk:Susanoo

Perfect Susanoo?
Why hasn't Madara's final stage of Susanoo been called 'Perfect' like all the translations have? Its different from the 'Final' stage after all, given it grows twice in size and is a different armor and everything. So why not call it Perfect like the translations instead of just calling it 'Final'?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:49, October 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * *facepalm* Its what Madara's Susanoo's final form is called. What is the reason why you don't want what all the translations say, even the official one, calling it Perfect Susanoo? Really? Why?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:36, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * You sure the official translation says "perfect" ? Sounds fishy, perfection is only a concept, it doesn't exist.--Elveonora (talk) 21:19, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * And yet an egomaniac like Madara calling his Susanoo perfect fits perfectly...either way I don't know what they actually called it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:38, October 5, 2013 (UTC)
 * Final, perfect, I really don't think it matters what we call it. Madara was just trying to get the point across that it was Susanoo in its most complete form. I'd also like to see the "official" translation he's talking about, because, I don't believe Seenlantau has translated that for us. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:15, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Have Volume 62 right by me. Madara officially calls his giant Susanoo 'Perfect' form. He says its 'not there yet' until having it 'settle'.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 03:32, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about the Viz translation, we don't use that as the "official" translation. The "official" translation would be the RAWs. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 03:53, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then lets get Seenlantau to translate. Since from most translations I've seen, as well as the Viz one, Madara clearly separates his Final (full armor) stage from his Perfect (stablized chakra) stage.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 04:33, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Truthfully, I think you're overhyping it. Madara is very egotistical and tends to think a little too highly of himself, so I honestly don't really care either way what he called it, nor do I think that finding the correct translation will result in a name change on the article, since it is represented correctly already, but if it will soothe your mind to know whether he called it "perfect" or not, then by all means, put in a request to Seenlantau and bring it up again then. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:19, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

It was removed because people started (or still apparently) believe that Perfect Susanoo was something entirely different. Because the meaning can be interchanged, the translation final was chose so that it doesn't look like there is a Perfect Susanoo.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 08:01, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * I see, it just looks like the Final stage is separate from the form Madara chose. He even blatantly says when asked: "Not quite yet..." and thinks 'settle', and his Final Susanoo form grows twice its normal size and gains a completely different type of armor and different swords. Though I think only Seenlantau can really clear this up Cerez.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 08:42, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're not understanding what Cerez said. Cerez is agreeing with you that "perfect" is the correct translation, but since the terms "final" and "perfect" are interchangeable, then "final" was chosen over "perfect" because people started believing the two were entirely different forms, which, given your reaction to this, is a pretty fair assessment. See, you're still basing your observations on size and we've already established that, where Susanoo is involved, size is screwy. All Madara did was take his final Susanoo and stabilize its chakra. Other than that, there is no distinction between the two, and as I already said, Madara is pretty much a big ball of arrogance. Of course he refers to his final Susanoo as "perfect". The dude thinks he's god's gift to shinobi. Its fine the way it is, SaiyaMan. It really isn't something we need to get translators involved in. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:45, October 6, 2013 (UTC)

Curse Mark Susanoo
Why was the image removed? Is it not showing a variation? --Questionaredude (talk) 03:31, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it's merely Sasuke's Complete Susanoo with the Cursed Seal markings over it. It was removed for the same reason the Nine-Tailed Armored picture was removed. On that note, we really don't need one of the perfect Susanoo pictures for Madara.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 03:48, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Are either of those images in a specific article? Both are notable in their own way. --Questionaredude (talk) 04:54, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why are they notable? Neither of them show the skill of the user; Sasuke isn't using the natural energy to enhance Susanoo, Jugo is, and Madara didn't do anything other than cover Kurama, which he was on top of, with his own Susanoo. Other than being appealing to the eye, they say nothing about the users themselves, and, as Ultimate already noted, are therefore irrelevant. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:22, October 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to start another argument, but this article is about the technique, not individuals' prowess with it, correct? That stuff is mainly for ability sections. If equipping Susanoo onto a tailed beast and the "senjutsu Susanoo" are applications of the technique, why aren't they considered notable? Naruto's senjutsu and nine-tails chakra enhancements are discussed on Rasenshuriken's page, for example.--BeyondRed (talk) 06:36, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * And not to sound like a smart ass, but this page has sections devoted to recording individual usage of Susanoo. Sasuke didn't use the Senjutsu chakra, did he? No, it came from an outside source — namely Jugo. Therefore, it doesn't show a user applying a different strategy to Susanoo, therefore, while it gets a mention in Sasuke's section, it doesn't need an image for it because its just Sasuke's complete Susanoo with tattoos on it. Furthermore, when Naruto enhances his Rasengan, while its Kurama's power, its Naruto who is applying that power to Rasengan. Not to mention, Kishimoto actually gave that application a special name. So yes, it gets a mention, and this doesn't. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 07:13, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except Sasuke's senjutsu susanoo looks different from his regular one, regardless of its origins. Meaning we need a picture of it somewhere. We're a wiki site, its our job to provide that kind of info. The same goes for using susanoo as an armor for the nine tails. Whether that goes here or on the character's page doesn't matter. The images just need to be there. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 13:33, October 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, they do not. If people want to see it that badly, that's what the manga is for. We're not in the business of creating gigantic galleries full of eye-appealing images, when they serve no purpose. Madara's usage of Susanoo to armor Kurama "looks different" too and its still not going in here, because it serves no purpose. As a wiki, our job is to record facts, which they are, not create a photo album for people to browse through. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 01:09, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke Stabilised Susanoo
 Noting the straight squared nose and jaw in the last panel, is it reading to much into a single panel, that Sasuke has already learned to stabilise his Susanoo??? --Gojita (talk) 21:46, October 8, 2013 (UTC)Gojita
 * Yes. Its reading way too much into it. We'll know more in the next chapter. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:58, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Itachi's Susanoo Color
Currently the article states that its color is different from manga to anime. However, with the recent episode, and even before then, in the Naruto/Nagato/Killer B fight, Itachi's susanoo changes color depending on the stage its in. And the color of his complete Susanoo matches the color of it drawn in the manga. And while it is speculation to say that the color changes in the manga version as well, its incorrect to say that the color is different, when the two examples of that stage match. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 01:49, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Color changing according to its stages is anime-only, both Madara and Sasuke's Susanoo keep their color through all forms, hell even in the anime. What the anime team decides to do doesn't affect the canon, in the manga it was seen as yellow and speculating that somehow magically studio pierrot got it right is ridiculous--Elveonora (talk) 11:27, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently you didn't read what I said at all. I said we can't take color changing to be true in the manga, but we also can't say the color is different when the examples of the complete form has the same color. Learn how to read things before you comment. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 13:08, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I did and understood you completely, I just thought you to have had a hidden motive behind the topic, that being the reason for my seemingly unrelated response. I haven't noticed a different color in the recent episode, when exactly?--Elveonora (talk) 13:34, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * You still don't seem to understand what he's saying. On our article, we state that the anime depicts Itachi's Susanoo as "red", while the manga depicts it as "yellow". However, the manga has only colored Itachi's "complete" Susanoo. The anime, conversely, uses the exact same color for the complete Susanoo. What he is saying is that, while we can't say that the color changing to red in its incomplete and final forms is canon to the manga (as they haven't been colored in the manga), we also can't say that it is an anime error, since the only thing the manga colored, they got right. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:45, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

I knew that... but thanks for telling me, alright. I know what the topic is about all along. I just thought he was trying to push the color change thing as canon despite him stating it not to be his intent as of the line "while it is speculation" etc. But if he hadn't written that, I wouldn't have been suspicious or paranoid even, ironically. The color doesn't match tho, in this episode, it looked like a different shade of red at best/dark orange in case he refers to the 4 armed shot of it, not that much yellow. It's just shading. Red is still prevalent no matter how you look at it, so that's not really a wrong statement. I think it may be no different than the tailed beast ball in the anime being different slightly among its appearances, it depends on the director/animators working on the episode, they keep flipping back and forth constantly. For example, I don't think this happened during the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. But if you want your heart at peace, feel free to add there being a yellowish tint and call this topic concluded--Elveonora (talk) 19:02, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Look closer. The susanoo used in the recent episode has Itachi's split between complete and incomplete. The complete parts are colored yellow, the incomplete ones colored red. The picture in this article requires you to look closely, but there's a clearer example in the character articles. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:10, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Edit: Look at the body fluid shedding technique picture. Clearest example. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:14, October 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Seeing it now. Well add it if you want, not a biggie--Elveonora (talk) 20:05, October 11, 2013 (UTC)

Equipped Susanoo
So, now that we have a couple of examples, should we maybe make a separate section showing it equipped to tailed beasts (Kurama) like we do for the different weapon variations? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 13:52, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. However, you're gonna have to persuade the Sysops and the Rollbacks in order to do so. For instance, you could name the section you want so badly "Shape Transformation", and place it between "Weaponry" and "Influence", but having it deleted at the hands of a sysop or rollback would be frustrating. I like the idea, but you have a lot of opposition against the idea right now. WindStar7125 (talk) 20:58, October 16, 2013 (UTC)

It makes sense and there isn't a reason not to, this is relevant to this jutsu and much more trivial things have been added to pages e.g chidori has CM influences to the jutsu on the page, it hardly changed it, only 1 more use of chidori and differently coloured. --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 17:54, October 17, 2013 (UTC)