Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-36512555-20180814043009/@comment-34194151-20180821035016

@Ninja of War,

If you reread all my posts you will see that this has become a semantics issue. You said that edo madara isn't faster than ayy. The reason I asked you for proof that madara is going all out, is because logically, the only way you can make the bold claim that madara isn't faster is if you assume madara was going as fast as he could. IF madara isn't going all out, then he isn't necessarily using his top speed by definition. My proof? Madara was clearly toying around and not using his full abilities until he decided to off-panel the kages and leave them bleeding out. Further proof? Other characters have withheld their top-speed before getting serious. rock lee didn't take off his weights immediately against gaara. Raikage didn't go V2 immediately against Taka Sasuke. Killer bee didn't use his top V2 speed immediately vs team taka. Therefore, madara wasn't necessarily using his top speed in that fight, so he is featless. There is no proof either way.

And I already refuted your points. here is the manga evidence: Chap 563, pg 2. Madara is standing on top of a pillar. Mei spits lava. Madara jumps into the air. Raikage jumps as well and blitzes madara while madara is in mid-air. Last I checked, Madara can't use his footspeed in the air. He also clearly reacted to Ayy by forming a guard on the following page. Madara still got knocked backed, cause of physics. Madara falls on to the ground because he can't fly. He forms susano'o to block Mei's lava. THEN, Raikage strikes a Madara laying down on his back with his lightning chop. Madara already had susano'o up before the strike. All of Ei's feats after that are irrelevant to my point, because Ohnoki enhanced Raikage beyond his normal speed capabilities. Edo Madara is featless in speed, so you can't make the argument he isn't faster than Ayy, nor can I make the argument that Ayy is faster. What feat does Ayy have that proves he is faster than featless edo Madara? Blitzing Sasuke? Well keep in mind that that same sasuke was significantly slower than old Edo tensei Hiruzen, Tobirama, and Hashirama to the Juubi battlefield, and Madara is most likely on par with those hokage in speed, if not faster than at least Hiruzen.

My point being that Jason was saying Madara is faster than obito, and we have no speed feat for Madara that suggests he is faster or slower than obito

I'm taking about obito vs kcm naruto, chap 595 pg 7-8. I'm not sure how obito compares to BM naruto, though naruto seemed to be able to headbutt him with ease, though he failed to do so before getting tagged by mokuton

@Jason

Show me a panel of Madara using his foot-speed in mid air. Until then, Raikage only blitzed him because madara couldn't use shunshin in the air. Madara can't fly, as I explained to Ninja already. After that, again , no proof of Madara being slower than Ayy. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Idk if obito is actually faster than KCM naruto anymore I admit, because there were other times afterward where he seemed to be able to dodge obito while in KCM form such as when the juubi was fully revived.