Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26998824-20150920161424/@comment-26773508-20150927043245

Thekillman wrote: Minato 87 wrote: Madara can beat Kurama because he has Sharingan and can control Kurama, Same is true for Hashirama with his Wood Release which is naturally strong against Biju because it drains their chakra. Both jutsu are essentially keys to a lock on a gargantuan blast door. Whereas someone like Hiruzen would have to bring down the blast door, someone with a capacity for the Sharingan can just walk up to it and open it. Even Sasuke could suppress Kurama with a glance.

Madara needed Kurama to be on par with Hashirama (and lost even then), so i don't think that it's so far fetched that Hiruzen can beat him without it. Even so, i do not believe that Hiruzen is overhyped or retconned since hes basically one of the most important characters we know next to nothing about. We don't even know what his special jutsu was. I mean, Hashirama had an entire unique release, Tobirama had Edo Tensei, Kage Bunshin and Hiraishin, Minato had his Yellow Flash name (and combinations of jutsu) as well as Rasengan, Tsunade had Strength of a Hundred, Kakashi has Chidori, Naruto has Rasenshuriken.

It's pathetic that there's next to nothing on Hiruzen's exact capacity, but he was said to be the strongest of the Kage (by which i assume the Third Kages).
 * The Third Kazekage was considered the strongest Kazekage of all.
 * The Third Mizukage was the bodyguard at the First Gokage summit (all others became Second Kages)
 * The Third Raikage was considered the greatest Raikage.
 * The Third Tsuchikage is Onoki with his Dust release.

And Hiruzen is the strongest of these. Note that all of these Thirds are apparently ranked higher than the current Tsunade generation that took on Madara. I don't think Hiruzen has any chance of beating someone with Indra's chakra who can use Perfect Susanoo. Just because Madara had a cheat that allowed him to easily control Kurama doesn't make his strength and skills any less effective. I mean like, what the hell is Hiruzen going to do against PS anyway? Remember that the power of Perfect Susanoo is comparable to the power of bijuu. Seeing how Hiruzen struggled against Kurama, I doubt he could harm a PS-wielding Madara. Considering the fact that Kurama's Bijuu Dama failed to destroy Susanoo (when Hashirama's Wood Golem caught Kurama's TBB and then hit the Susanoo-clad Kurama with it), Enma's adamantine staff will only push the PS a few meters at most. So Hiruzen doesn't have anything in his arsenal that can do any significant damage to Madara, at least for now.

And yes, Hiruzen IS overhyped and his hype indeed has been retconned. Hashirama can squash Hiruzen like a bug through both hype and feats. Heck, Onoki and the Third Raikage look infinitely more badass than Hiruzen. How the hell is Hiruzen going to harm the Third Raikage when a senjutsu-enhanced Rasenshuriken couldn't do shit against him?