Talk:Sasuke Uchiha/Archive 14

Sasuke cannot sense Natural Energy
Seelentau, I think you're making a mistake. We know it wasn't Sasuke exclaiming that thought, but Naruto due to one simple fact: without training you can't see or sense natural energy. All the '!?' from Sasuke was seeing Naruto's avatar change. We know its Naruto thinking that since he goes "Here it comes!" the previous panel.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:04, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * To explain my revert: The panel before shows Naruto inside his avater, receiving the energy. He says It arrived!. The next panel shows Sasuke's view, his reaction !? and then he thinks I can feel it......! that much natural energy has suddenly...!? and in the lower right panel, he then says ......... So you're finally serious about killing me. It wouldn't make any sense for Naruto to think that he can "feel" the natural energy or be surprised about the amount, since Kurama states how much it is before he sends it. Also, Sasuke's words about Naruto being serious as well as his view on Naruto during that panel wouldn't make any sense either. Furthermore, large amounts of chakra can be sensed by non-sensors, so why not all the natural energy of the world as well? • Seelentau 愛 議 01:12, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think even Naruto was surprised on how much Kurama was able to accumulate. Even Kurama exclaimed he may have gotten too much before sending it to Naruto. Natural Energy cannot be sensed by anyone who hasn't had the explicit training to do so. Fukasaku explained that very clearly. Its an otherwise invisible energy to everyone else. When Sasuke remarked 'So it looks like you're finally ready to kill me', it was after Naruto's Kurama avatar changed into the six-armed form. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:18, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Kurama didn't say that, it just said that it took a while because it's all the natural energy above the world. Plus, in the panel before, the natural energy had already arrived so if it was Naruto who was surprised by the amount, he would've said it in that panel. But he just said "It arrived!". And again, switching to Sasuke's view, his reaction ("!?") and his sentence in the lower right panel wouldn't make any sense if it wasn't him who sensed the natural energy. • Seelentau 愛 議 01:22, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * He kind of did. Kurama remarked: "I might have amassed a little too much, in fact." And in the viz volume, when the 'Got it' is used, its Kurama saying it due to the font difference. Naruto then asks how was he able to get so much natural energy so quickly, and Sasuke then goes "Finally resolved to kill me, eh?' after seeing the new appearance. Its Naruto's thoughts, not Sasuke's there. And it'd make sense since Naruto's the only one whose had the training for Natural Energy sensing.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:26, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Curse Mark uses/is Senjutsu/Natural energy and is Sage Transformation and Sasuke was said to have mastered it. Therefor I think him sensing Natural Energy is entirely possible. QuakingStar (talk) 01:30, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Uh no. He didn't even know what Senjutsu even was until the Kabuto battle, nor what natural energy was until fighting Obito. And he lost the Cursed Seal, depriving any and all chance of 'sensing' natural energy he would have had. Not even Juugo can sense natural energy, yet Sasuke can just because he could react and use CS2? Sasuke can't sense natural energy, he doesn't have the training for it. Only Sages like Naruto, Kabuto, Jiraiya, Gamakichi, Hashirama, Fukasaku, and Shima can.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:34, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. I never paid much attention to the font, but you're right. It's Kurama who says that it arrived. But it still doesn't make sense how the scene switches to Sasuke's view, shows his reaction, then in the same panel shows Naruto's thoughts and then in the next panel Sasuke says how Naruto is ready to kill him. To me, it would make more sense if that was all Sasuke: He reacts with a !?, then thinks to himself Holy shit, so much natural energy and comes to the conclusion He's serious now. I mean, we can keep it out and wait for the anime to catch up, but I'm pretty sure it's Sasuke's thought, not Naruto's. After all, Naruto doesn't need to feel the energy when it's inside him anyways. • Seelentau 愛 議 01:35, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * The only reason why Naruto would say that is because he wasn't expecting Kurama to amass that much, hence the top panel saying 'I may have gotten too much'. Naruto is the only one with the training for it. Sasuke had no concept, at all of Senjutsu until the Kabuto fight, nor did he even know about natural energy until Obito.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:38, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Still, this line will have more sence if it belongs to Sasuke. And even if it doesn't, the line "So, you're finally ready to kill me" obviosly belongs to him, and since he said this before Six Paths: Rasenshuriken formation, it stands to reason that Sasuke actually felt the energy coming into Naruto beforehand. He sensed something really big already before Naruto prepared his strongest jutsu, that's a fact. Also, Sasuke's reaction (!?) implies that he felt this incoming energy, hence his surprise because of the amount. I don't know how, I don't know why, but he felt it. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 07:51, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sasuke has eyes. He was looking right at Naruto. He saw the Avatar of Kurama fully change into the six armed asura form. He can't sense Natural Energy, Ravenlot 27. Only sage's can, and Sasuke doesn't have the training to be a Sage. It was Naruto who remarked on how much natural energy Kurama had amassed calling back to 'I may have gotten a little bit too much'.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 07:58, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * ...and it was Sasuke who commented Naruto's depleted chakra reserves before (that he hadn't enough of it to create a single TBB). If Naruto stayed low on chakra, new avatar wouldn't have changed anything at all and Sasuke didn't have to be afraid of it. In fact, he would've just mocked Naruto's weakness again. Again, he still noticed that Naruto got serious. The reason? He really felt something incoming. And this "something" couln't be anything except for nature energy. But don't overdo this, I'm patient. I'll just wait for anime to prove this once and for all. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 08:14, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

By the way, the argument that only sages can sense natural energy is kinda weak when you consider Madara absorbing Hashirama's senjutsu chakra without turning into stone, something which should've been impossible according to Fukasaku as well. I wouldn't rely too much on old facts, Kishimoto was never one to do that, either. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:18, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sasuke has sensed Naruto's chakra multiple times throughout Part II despite it apparently being implied that only sensors can sense chakra, and Sasuke's stated not to be a sensor. And yeah, based on what we've seen with Kishi ignoring old facts all the time, it isn't too far-fetched that it was indeed Sasuke being able to sense natural energy due to Naruto amassing large amounts of it. It isn't impossible. But again, waiting for the anime isn't a bad option either. 13:23, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

According to VIZ Translation, the panel in question says: "I can feel it! How did he gain so much nature energy so suddenly?" Senjutsu Sensing I - pretty sure it's Sasuke speaking, but I can find the raw if you guys need it. --Keaire (talk) 15:42, May 22, 2016 (UTC)Keaire

Yang Release
I thought Sasuke was given the Yin Release only.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 13:53, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then by that logic, Naruto was given Yang Release only, which we know isn't true.
 * EDIT: Not to mention, all genjutsu is Yin Release, so Sasuke had Yin Release long before he met Hagoromo. 14:10, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Naruto never used genjutsu. Also, he had the other tailed beasts in him to access the TSB.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 15:30, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * The only ones who can truly use Yin-Yang Release are those who either have received Hagoromo's power (fourth databook) or have the TSB. So I think you should figure out why Sasuke has Yang Release. 15:34, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Naruhodo.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 17:52, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

TSB's are made of YinYang Release and only TSB Users are confirmed to have YinYang Release right?? and if not then YinYang Release is Hagoromo's power that comes from his DNA/Chakra since he generates it therefor having Rinnegan/Six Paths Chakra/Six Paths Senjutsu gives YinYang Release and apparently all elements to all and any who possess those. So why does Nagato not have YinYang Release and Yin Release?? It's kind of picking and choosing if you ask me. What's the deal here?? QuakingStar (talk) 20:10, May 16, 2016 (UTC)

Sasuke's Novel Appearance
Sasuke's actual first novel appearance(as well as Team 7, Zabuza, Haku and other characters from Land of the Waves-arc) is Naruto: Innocent Heart, Demonic Blood (白の童子、血風の鬼人, but we don't have article for it... Shouldn't that be fixed? --JouXIII (talk) 20:33, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

Personality section
I'm a new contributor, and I did not know about the talk function. Let's talk, then.

We all know what personality is: it is the nature of a person, defining traits, and individual idiosyncrasies that are persist throughout a variety of situations. To me it should also take into account character motivations and core beliefs as they shift and move, because of course, those constitute your nature. It is important to me to explain the moments after Sasuke fought Naruto more fully, for example, because his core beliefs change, and as a result we see a change in his behavior, and curses are broken, etc.

Now, if we're in the business of shortening and summarizing sections, how does an entire paragraph that explains Sasuke's relationship with Itachi, and another entire paragraph that explains Sasuke's relationship with Sakura belong in the Personality section? It doesn't, it belongs in a Relationships section.

Lalalalaigothis (talk) 17:55, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

→ I made a contribution to a wikia, and you're completely undoing my work. You're not making revisions or making any constructive changes of your own on top of mine as the Term "revision history" suggests, you're just slapping the label of fluff on it, just because I added words that actually pertain to PERSONALITY. Traits. I have tried posting in the talk section providing a rationale for my edits, and you have not talked. I have even shaved off words here and there as the admins have asked to knock down the word count, since that apparently is the first priority around here (although note it is longer in part because I added citations - ooh the horror!) This site is made for editing and improving over time, that's what I'm trying to do on this page. And you?

Lalalalaigothis (talk)
 * Obviously, this is my problem. I tried taking a hands-off approach, and I was a fool to think others would use the talkpage. So now I'm going to be more direct. I took the time to read both versions of the article from when it was unaltered and altered by you. I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself here, but here are the reasons why I said your edits are merely "fluff" and unhelpful:


 * 1) The article explains the personality just fine. Just like in real life, the way a person acts is based on how those close to them treat them. In Sasuke's case, that's his family (Itachi and Sakura) and his best friend (Naruto). THAT is why they're being mentioned in his personality section. From looking at your edits, they add almost nothing new. All your edits have done is just add and summarize even more events that happened in the series along with explaining his personality, hence why it's unnecessary (for instance: mentioning that he wanted to be part of the police force is something that can go in the background section of the article, not the personality section).
 * 2) You use words like "apologizes" and stuff. This wiki uses British English, so "apologises" would be the correct term to use.
 * 3) A good amount of your "citations" are incorrect. For instance:  He uses his missing left arm as a constant reminder of everything he has overcome.  This is completely false, and isn't even the correct chapter, as the final battle with Naruto and Sasuke happened near chapter 700, not chapter 230.
 * 4) You misinterpreted what I told you on your talkpage. Currently, we're trying to cut down on long articles such as Naruto or Sasuke, not every article on the wiki.
 * And since you are a new contributor, I'm going to go ahead and explain the 3RR policy to you: you are not to revert edits more than 3 times in less than 12 hours, else you may be blocked. But since you are a new contributor, I decided to be a bit more patient (you reverted 12 times in less than 12 hours). Standard procedure in revert warring is to protect the article and restore the article to the version it was before the edit war, which is exactly what I'm going to do next. After the protection period is done, you are not going to get into another edit war on this page, else I'm going to block you and anyone else that participates in said edit war. When multiple users are reverting your edits, do not revert back. That is basically ignoring editor requests, and that can also get you blocked.
 * I understand that it's wholly frustrating when you feel that everyone is reverting your edits for no reason. So I apologize for others not using the talkpage like I instructed you to. But reverting back is not the answer, especially doing so 12 times. I cannot keep protecting this page forever, it is for the community to edit. If the community does not approve your edits, then there's not much you can do. The same goes for me, an "admin". If the community doesn't like my edits, there's not much I can do.
 * It hurts to get your hard work reverted, I know. But that happens to everyone that edits on a wiki. When you make an edit, that gives anyone else the license to revert it. That is the public nature of a wiki. You cannot tell people they cannot remove your information, and I cannot tell people they can't remove my edits. Neither you nor I or anyone completely owns anything on a wiki's mainspace. By contributing here, you give free rights to allow anyone to remove it. If you don't want your edits to be touched by others, then there's no point in editing at all.
 * If you can, try editing on other areas of the wiki. There are multiple articles that can use more information. I've already protected this page twice in 3 days, and I don't take kindly to doing so. I am not going to protect it a third time. So please, enough with the edit warring. 00:01, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for providing your response. In vain, no doubt. Lalalalaigothis (talk) 00:47, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox Change
File:Sasuke_Uchiha_Infobox.png Okay, does anybody agree? His face is more close-up and it's perfectly symmetrical.-- 4th Six Paths (talk) 00:18, July 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I would agree to it if it was of better quality. You can see pixels here and there. --Rai 水 (talk) 02:26, July 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I would argue showing his entire head/hairstyle is better than slightly showing him more close up. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 06:51, July 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Current image is better than the proposed one. --Sajuuk 09:00, July 29, 2016 (UTC)

Age
Is it confirmed that Naruto Gaiden takes place 15 years after the war? If so we have a pretty adequate timeline for character ages. Sasuke is 32 in the present storyline, and thus the current age should be added to the infobox. --Mandon (talk) 00:10, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * We avoid calculating ages. 00:20, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

What's wrong with using basic math to calculate how old a character is, when there's a baseline for doing so? What's 17 + 15? If Naruto Gaiden/Boruto the Movie took place 15 years after the battle with Kaguya then Sasuke and Naruto are canologically 32. I can see avoiding age speculation if there's little or nothing to go on, but we basically have the timeline from Kaguya to Boruto set in stone, if that entry is accurate, which I can't vouch for. --Mandon (talk) 05:43, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * We are not adding calculated ages to any infobox. Just because Naruto Gaiden happened 15 years after the war when Sasuke was 17, it does not mean he is 32 by the time the events of Gaiden occurred. For example, the war could have happened on September 2016, and Gaiden could have happened in May 2031. Sasuke then would have been 31, not 32, by the events of Gaiden because his birthday is July 23, and had not yet passed by the time Gaiden had begun.
 * In the example, Gaiden happened 14 years and 8 months after the war. 15 years is an approximation, not an exact measure. Birthdays that have not passed between the dates of both events can alter the expected age. That is one of the reasons, if not the main reason, why we do not calculate ages. It’s not like we have exact dates of when things happen. It’s situations like these in which I wish this wiki put references directly next to ages so readers know we are using confirmed ages, and not unconfirmed ages we made up and tried to calculate. 06:18, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * What's more, the ages given in the manga are often inconsistent (e.g. Hiruzen's age in db 1 and 2), so we only note officially given ages. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:53, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Easy workaround. Age: 32-33 / 31-32

This isn't speculation - it's a fact. We have the information to go off of. I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic in this policy, as there's no real speculation involved. Also, it's worth asking - If we don't go by calculated ages, why is Sasuke listed as 15-17 in Part 2 of the Infobox? That's clearly calculating. He's never been explicitly stated to be 17, but because we know he's older than Naruto, and that Naruto is 17 at the time of the war - his age is listed as such. And there's no problem with that. Math is math. --Mandon (talk) 21:36, August 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * "This isn't speculation - it's a fact. We have the information to go off of."
 * Where? Care to share what source you've obtained that information from?
 * "I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic in this policy, as there's no real speculation involved."
 * Not a policy. We're just like any other decent wiki that doesn't want to make a habit out of inserting unconfirmed information into articles.
 * "Also, it's worth asking - If we don't go by calculated ages, why is Sasuke listed as 15-17 in Part 2 of the Infobox? That's clearly calculating. He's never been explicitly stated to be 17, but because we know he's older than Naruto, and that Naruto is 17 at the time of the war - his age is listed as such. And there's no problem with that. Math is math."
 * I'll get to why your "math is math" logic is flawed. I especially love how you say "He's never been explicitly stated to be 17" as if you've honestly gone through every single piece of official information on Naruto that has been released - manga, databooks, guidebooks etc etc - and come to that conclusion. It was stated in Jin no Sho, the fourth databook, that Sasuke was 17, around the end of Part II. It was stated Sha no Sho, the third databook, that he was 16, around the beginning and middle of Part II. Those ages you see there are official, not calculated (this is why, ladies and gentlemen, that I request that we add references next to the ages). The fact that there are two sources that list two different ages for Sasuke confirms that at some point, just like Naruto, his birthday passed during Part II and that he was 16 at the beginning of Part II and 17 around the end of the war.
 * "Easy workaround. Age: 32-33 / 31-32"
 * And finally, your proposed solution doesn't make solve the issue at all. Using that only further increases the degree of uncertainty surrounding Sasuke's age in Gaiden - adding "31-32" to his infobox either a) shows that we weren't certain at all what his age was so we just added both ages and rolled with it or b) it implies that Sasuke's birthday passed during Gaiden and that he was 31 at the beginning of Gaiden and 32 at the end of Gaiden - which you have zero confirmation of.
 * Once again, unless there is an official source on ages or dates, we are not adding ages of any sort to any infobox. 04:02, August 12, 2016 (UTC)

Flight
Shouldn't the article note that, at least in Boruto the Movie, Sasuke has some ability to fly or levitate? [] Skitts (talk) 00:59, August 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't say that. Having just checked the scene myself, it seems more like he can glide his partial Susanoo. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:23, August 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * If the Susanoo had been using wings, and were descending, I'd agree. But I didn't see either of those in that scene (it was just the rib-cage Susanoo). In fact, it appears to be levitating horizontally if you continue to watch the scene where Sasuke is giving Boruto a motivational talk. Skitts (talk) 01:28, August 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * From the angle, it seemed to be slowly descending to me. I'd still restrict whatever mobility was displayed in that scene to Susanoo instead of just Sasuke. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:58, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

Sasuke sensing Natural Energy
I didn't forget about the previous discussion on this topic. Anime confirms (or rather, re-confirms) that Sasuke did indeed sense Naruto's natural energy. So can we finally add back what should not have even been removed in the first place regarding this? 22:47, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * It already has been added earlier today. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:56, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Good. 23:04, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * And edits like this popping up was exactly what I anticipated. 00:28, October 1, 2016 (UTC)

Timeline of Sasuke's Travels
The epilogue where it said 2 years after the incident with Toneri, Sasuke returned to Konoha and Sakura began pregnant where does it say that?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 23:48, October 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Naruto Gaiden: The Seventh Hokage and the Scarlet Spring takes place 13 years after the last movie. Sarada is 11 in gaiden, therefor her birth takes place 2 years after the last. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 23:58, October 23, 2016 (UTC)

yin-yang release
Why is he a user exactly?--Elve Talk Page 08:38, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems like every user of Six Paths — Chibaku Tensei got labeled as such. Seems false to me though, Sasuke merely used his Six Paths Yin Power for that, not Yin-Yang release I believe. Norleon (talk) 10:51, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually I believe Sasuke and Naruto are deemed YYR users because they were given Hagoromo's chakra in general. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:58, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I would like to know what exactly the databook says about this. If I remember correctly, Naruto was plainly and directly said to be a YYR user in the 4th databook, while Sasuke was added as one here simply because of some supposed 'got Hagoromo's chakra' logic. Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan thus Hagoromo's chakra, no YYR as an example.--Elve Talk Page 00:47, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, the databook says that after receiving Hagoromo's power, Naruto could make perfect use of YYR. Sasuke received Hagoromo's power as well. Nagato did not. Having the Rinnegan does not automatically grant you Hagoromo's power. Only SPS and becoming the TT Jinchuriki does that. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:53, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither of which Sasuke has. Power is a broad term, it doesn't really say that Sasuke received the same kind of power from Hagoromo like Naruto did, does it?--Elve Talk Page 14:31, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
 * No idea^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 14:59, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we shouldn't state that Sasuke can use YYR unless certain.--Elve Talk Page 15:17, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Does anyone else think he should be removed?--Elve Talk Page 13:23, November 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bump--Elve Talk Page 16:27, November 4, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why does he still have Yang Release tho? 23:32, November 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, remove it, an oversight.--Elve Talk Page 00:05, November 25, 2016 (UTC)

So only TTJ and SPS users have yinyang release.. yet Madara had YinYang release with just the Rinnegan and he taught Obito about YinYang release.. so the Rinnegan gives the capability to eventually use and master yin yang release instead of simply giving it to the user.. that sound correct seelentau?QuakingStar (talk) 00:26, November 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * Madara no longer had his Rinnega at the time he taught Obito, but then again he could still produce black rods without it, so some of its abilities may be usable without eyes like Susanoo. It could also be because they both had Hashirama cells, since Uchiha inherited the Yin half of Hagoromo's power and Senju inherited the Yang half. As far as available translations go, the databook doesn't directly say that Six Paths Senjutsu grants Yin-Yang Release, it just says something vague about Naruto using it perfectly thanks to Hagoromo's power.--BeyondRed (talk) 00:51, November 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Is Yin-Yang Release well distinguished in the original Japanese from Yin and Yang Release? Anyway, the power Naruto got from Hagoromo was Six Paths Senjutsu, so it's at least implied that Yin-Yang Release is something usable with Six Paths Senjutsu. Sasuke didn't get that but he got Rinnegan. Also Madara taught Obito Rinnegan techniques too, without him or Obito having Rinnegan at the time. The way I understood it all is that Madara taught Obito inside of a Genjutsu, like a training simulation. So either of them not having some power or not being able to use something at the time is moot, since if it's in a genjutsu, it's only about learning how it works and remembering--Elve Talk Page 13:43, November 25, 2016 (UTC)

You're right that is how Madara trained him for the teaching Jutsu and etc part. QuakingStar (talk) 14:02, November 25, 2016 (UTC)

Sensor
I don't think he should be classified as a sensor because his sensory abilities are limited to Naruto's chakra since they both have one half of Hagoromo's power. He couldn't sense Sakura after she was taken. They needed Naruto's sage mode since sages have sensory abilities.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 13:56, April 14, 2017 (UTC)