Talk:Kurama/Archive 4

Size
So does the yin chakra being taken only affect Kurama's size and capacity for chakra? Even after when he was feeding off naruto's chakra, he still seems to be considerably smaller compared to when the kurama attacked konoha. Also, when he feeds off naruto's chakra, does he like convert that to his own chakra? I don't get it.--76.92.243.71 (talk) 03:25, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

We don't quite know about what happens to the chakra it absorbs. In regards to the size, we only know that the lack of Yin chakra weakened it (whether it is by half we don't know), and made it smaller. Skitts (talk) 03:30, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Appearance changes from 571
Are we really going to keep those? Those look more like something that happens only to the chakra when Naruto transforms. Actual Kurama doesn't suddenly look like a Tron character. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:13, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yin Half?
I know the Yin half of the Nine tails is sealed and that it never will be seen again, but why did Minato seal the yin half? Lil rob (talk) 17:59, January 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Minato couldn't seal all the Nine-Tails chakra away, there was simply too much. Hence, the Yin chakra was sealed in the Death God and the Yang chakra sealed in Naruto. --speysider (talk) 18:59, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

I think he is asking why Minato has not sealed all of it into Naruto, and the answer is we don't know for sure yet. --Elveonora (talk) 00:41, January 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe it has already mentioned in the manga why he couldn't, because it's mentioned on this wiki. --speysider (talk) 00:58, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

He couldn't seal all of it. Apparently, there is either an inherent limit on how much Shiki Fujin can seal at a time, or how much can be placed inside of the Death God. Even if he had a seal that could have done so (like Mito did), his situation didn't exactly leave him with other things that may have been necessary. Skitts (talk) 02:11, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Kurama is stronger than five tailed beasts at once.
When clearly showed in the manga, it should be added to in the article to show how strong he is. Instead of deleting it, it should be kept. --NaruHina fan (talk) 18:54, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

You're assuming that:

-All five of the beasts are putting most of or all of their chakra into the TBB which I find highly unlikely.

-The Kurama's blast equals their attack; we haven't seen the outcome.

That's probably why it gets removed. Skitts (talk) 20:31, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kurama was turning three into rag dolls and why wouldn't the Tailed Beast Ball here be equal to the might of the combined one? Why is everyone so determined to remove Naruto and Kurama's feats?--NaruHina fan (talk) 20:52, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Equalling five doesn't mean it's better than the five together, just that it's as strong as those five together. We're so determined to remove them because they're still not quite feats, as they have yet to happen, because we have yet to see its outcome, poor wording on your part (in my opinion, don't know if others share this), but most important, because we're part of an ancient secret society that hopes to bring the end of the word by removing hype of manga characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:02, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Shhh, you're not supposed to talk about it Omni. ;) Skitts (talk) 22:16, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Like I said before, it's unnecessary hyping every-single-week. If Kurama farts next week we'll be seeing that "of all the tailed beasts his fart is the strongest devastating the other five tailed beasts combined!". The next issue I have is that you just come and drop a one line here and a one line there that never seems to tie in with anything or benefits the article... it just sits there...like this...--Cerez365™ 00:31, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Ha Ha Ha Ha. That was humourous Cerez365. But I think you should have a better tone. Your words are dripping with sarcasm.37.41.33.82 (talk) 13:04, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I forgot to wite about theb topic. Maybe Kurama's chakra levels are higher than the five Tailed Beasts. That doesn't mean he is the strongest. Having the highest chakra levels doesn't make you the strongest.37.41.33.82 (talk) 13:06, May 11, 2012 (UTC)

Jiraya
Why isn't mentioned that it nearly killed Jiraya during his training with Naruto? --93.86.115.139 (talk) 04:45, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * because Naruto almost killed Jiraiya not Kurama.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:52, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Jiraya said Naruto went into 4-tailed mode before suppressing Kyubi's chakra. We know Naruto can't control more than three tails, meaning Kyubi was in control of Naruto's body not Naruto himself. --109.93.103.12 (talk) 23:07, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * So we should transfer everything that Naruto's done while in any tailed form to Kurama's article? Kurama's hatred corrupts Naruto, the fox doesn't control his body.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:11, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm, it seems it is a misunderstanding. Part of this article features events when Naruto went into the four-tailed mode and higher modes, indicating that Kurama was in contol of Naruto's body. That's why I've thought this training accident should be added. --109.93.103.12 (talk) 23:28, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

A case against Nature Release
I've read the various talk pages and archives on this subject and after giving it some thought believe that giving Kurama an elemental nature is unnecessary given other, more simple explanations.

Wind - I'll start here because in my view this is the easiest to explain away. Kurama simply caused a "twister" by swiping his massive hand with enough force to disturb the air. An example of this being Decapitating Airwaves and Daytime Tiger both effect air pressure without a wind element nature.

Fire - With the explanation for wind in mind, I believe the friction of Kurama's chakra being "roared" out could ignite the air. An example of this happening is the Morning Peacock, more a case of cause and effect than moulding of chakra.

These topics have been talked to death but I hope to have added something to the discussion. I'd also like to suggest removing things that could be viewed as displays of power (ex. Sonic Roar, Twister, Fire Stream) from being classified as jutsu altogether and noted in the abilities section but I may be, admittedly, being too anal. Arrancar79 (talk) 02:24, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

For starters, this is anime-only, so it isn't canonical anyway. :P There's a clear difference between the two techniques you mentioned and what Kurama did. It created a literal twister.and even discounting that, it actually breathed out fire, not roared and things were set ablaze. Skitts (talk) 02:43, February 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't see the rotation of the air being evidence of wind nature, my two examples were meant to show that air can be used/disturbed without having a wind element. As for fire coming directly from his mouth, fire came directly from Guy's hands. Arrancar79 (talk) 03:00, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * The twister was created with a mere hand wave. There was no such thing as a pressure build-up like in Daytime Tiger, which is done with extreme speed. The fire created by Guy's Morning Peacock is created because of the speed creating friction with the air. Again, there's no evidence of this happening with Kurama, it just breathed fire. This is simply one of the instances the anime writers simply add filler content and screw things up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:52, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the case of the twister I don't mean to say they work exactly the same. Yes, Daytime Tiger used extreme speed, I'm suggesting Kurama used power. I use it as an example of air being manipulated without a wind nature. In my opinion if there is a shadow of doubt or any plausible alternate way of explaining things like this, then that should be the preference. To apply a nature, even with anime only tags, seems speculative. Like I said in my first post, I admit that I'm probably being anal or maybe just a manga purist but either way it gets decided, I appreciate the responses. Arrancar79 (talk) 23:08, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Creating a twister is something that for me really seems like something that would require nature transformation. I've said it many times in the past and I'll say it again: for either, either both twister and fire-breathing are listed as nature transformations or neither is considered. Not just one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:16, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd be very happy with neither but I don't see that happening. XD Arrancar79 (talk) 06:19, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Unique Traits
Hey shouldn't excelerated healing be added to Kurama's unique traits. It saids throughout the series that due to his influence on Naruto that whenever he gets injured he is healed. And as he goes through the Nine Tail Chakra cloak levels that it heals at an accelerated rate but shortens his life. So I'm just saying that is a unique trait of Kurama so it should be added. --Tuxedo12 (talk) 16:02, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

yes. It has been said many times. But it can be a speciality of Uzumaki clan. We dont know for sure Salil dabholkar (talk) 04:59, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Foot Print
File:Nine-tails shrinks.png vs File:Kurama_after_sealed_his_Yin_chakra_away.png The anime image poorly represents the scene, the way the anime does it makes it look like its claws dragged as it shrank and there are some other weird markings and strange additional imprinted shapes going on there. — S im A nt 08:07, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

So anyone ? I really have no problem with the anime one. --Elveonora (talk) 12:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I have no issue with it, only Simant seems to have a problem, I don't see any of the other admins having a problem. I believe policy states that the manga image should be updated with the anime image once it becomes available in an episode. Am I wrong ? --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:54, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

If the image conveys the scene properly. However, I'm with Simant on this one. It does make it look like that was caused by it dragging its paw. I think the manga version displays the scene more properly and better. Skitts (talk) 13:03, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's going to look odd if every other page has anime images and this one has one manga image. People are going to wonder why that is. For consistency, I feel that if there's an anime image available it should be used, not discarded just because of an animation error. It still represents the scene imo. --Speysider (Talk Page) 13:10, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Just add a note under the anime image as of what it is supposed to portray, fixed. --Elveonora (talk) 13:13, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

@Elveonora I don't think we usually do that, since that would look a bit cluttered. I don't think this is the only page that uses the reasoning that I pointed out above. That's why the default image on, say, Shisui's article is the manga one. You guys are free to change it if more of you support the change. Just my two cents. o3o Skitts (talk) 13:41, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't care since it portrays the same scene ... coloured it just looks better :P --Elveonora (talk) 13:50, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's really not that important if the footprint just "poofed" smaller, or dragged smaller. To be honest actually, Kurama's Background section doesn't need four pictures so there is no guarantee that the picture will remain there.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:17, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

The image could be moved to either the appearance section or abilities section either way it is important for readers to see the change in size of Kurama. As for which image to use, the goal here on the wiki is to be accurate with the author of the series, not consistent with the anime. The anime image inaccurately displays how he shrunk, implying that his paw was pulled across the ground rather than the change being an instantaneous result of the Dead Demon Consuming Seal sealing the Yin chakra all at once. — S im A nt 22:12, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * The anime representation could also just be a mistake in the producing of that episode, in terms of consistency. I still feel it is best to use the anime image, because the manga images are not in colour. If there's still an unknown decision for this image, I'd say just remove it. As TU3 said above, there's too many images there. --Speysider (Talk Page) 09:11, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, so that's why it looked odd... the animators made Kurama's foot drag when it got smaller. It's good to have something to show how he's (possibly) changed in size after having half his chakra sealed elsewhere. I say possibly because I'm not sure, I would have expected him to be smaller than the other tailed beasts now but that isn't the case. At, any rate, I don't have a problem with either image being used.

Also @Speysider directly. you really shouldn't think like that. I'm sure you wouldn't want users or sysops to ignore your issues saying "eh, he's not an admin so no need to consider what he's saying"--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 10:35, April 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey guys! :D xD Stop being worked up. Well I think it's the best way is to use the manga image or if it doesn't look great. I prefer removing it, though.
 * --IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 10:48, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Cerez What are you talking about? :S --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:25, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * All this boils down to is consistency vs. accuracy, the point of this encyclopedia is to accurately inform the reader of the original story from the author of the series, anime images that do not conflict with it are fine. As for established policy, "If an anime image poorly represents a scene, a manga image should be used in its place if available." has been on the image policy for nearly two years. The anime changed the work from the original author and changed the physics of his universe, everyone can agree that the two images do not show the same thing. — S im A nt 22:41, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

new Kurama anime image
I found a pretty good high quality anime image of Kurama that can replace the old one in the infobox. What do you think of this? (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kurama_ep249.png) KazeKitsune (talk) 06:49, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually don't see anything wrong with the current image. -- http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (Talk to me) 06:50, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * The current one doesn't have the high quality or the 16:9 (widescreen) ratio as the one I'm proposing. KazeKitsune (talk) 07:09, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Widescreen format isn't necessary...and your image is of much poorer quality.. akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 10:03, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh really? On my last image (http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kurama_image_anime.png), they put a templete that said that it needs to be in a widescreen format, so I did. And for the old image, it has MEDIUM resolution, which makes it more blurry (especially the lineart), while the new one is from Crunchyroll, a website that has HIGH quality videos. I'm just trying to help, so please, can you just go with it...? KazeKitsune (talk) 10:23, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a look at . It says something different. Also I dont see a major change in the quality as such. -- http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (Talk to me) 10:28, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops! I totally skipped the important words, my bad! Well I fixed the ratio. KazeKitsune (talk) 10:41, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Don't really see an issue with the image, except the fact that I'd prefer if Kurama's face wasn't in the air. Either way, I'm fine with whatever decision is made. Also, just so you guys know, the widescreen thing has not been written into policy that images of that nature can't be used, so don't bother starting with that. It would more than likely be tagged with said template and fixed in the next 20 years or so, but other than that, it's not a valid reason to chastise an image.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 10:32, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * If that's the case I happen to found the image that doesn't involve Kurama's face in the air lol XD KazeKitsune (talk) 11:09, August 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * EDIT CONFLICT: lol :D you got that totally wrong...Naruto is a 4:3 anime, whereas the image you uploaded was in 16:9 ratio i.e. you can't unnecessarily stretch an image into widescreen format which is supposed to be in 4:3.

P.S. About the new Kurama image, I prefer the Part I image which is currently in the infobox because the image containing the character how we first saw them must be used..The one you uploaded is a flashback, I guess. akz!  10:36, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally don't think my image looks all that bad... T_T KazeKitsune (talk) 11:36, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * I cant see any reason as such to change the current image.
 * @Cerez365: I know that. I never use that template. -- http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (Talk to me) 11:30, August 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * The purpose of is to tag images which are not in it's proper aspect ratio, so we can keep for uniformity in the images. For example, all original Naruto and the first 52 Shippuden episodes are to be in 4:3 and everything after that is 16:9. If your image is in the wrong ratio, it'll be tagged for deletion to be reuploaded in the correct ratio. On the topic: there is no need to change the image. --Speysider Talk Page 11:35, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

Gender
Are we undecided on Kurama's gender? I think he might be a guy, since in Chapter 568 Son Goku, who's known Kurama for one of the longest periods of time out of all the characters in the manga, refers to Kurama as one twice. Mind you, it's a fan translation, so I'm not too sure how well it holds up. 46.33.142.30 (talk) 20:53, October 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Honestly, until we have an official source, I wouldn't put down a gender. These tailed beasts are massive lumps of chakra in physical form. I doubt they have a gender to begin with. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:58, October 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Every time someone mentions a tailed beast in the manga, we check the Japanese to see if gender specific words are used to refer to them. So far, none was used. Translator simply default to male pronouns when necessary. This is a bit like Swordsmen. The word itself in Japanese is gender neutral, and technically (I think) so is the English one, but "men" is in the word. The word in Japanese is something akin to "swordsperson" in terms of gender. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

He is obviously male, but again, Kurama might not consider to be anything--Elveonora (talk) 01:20, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Minato refers to Nine-Tails as 'he' in the dubbed cutscenes of UNSG. -- The Goblin  13:05, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I trust only the original Japanese audio. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:51, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Why do we have to doubt it's gender while it's obvious that Kurama is "he" ???--Elveonora (talk) 20:17, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Just because it's voiced by a male, it doesn't mean it's a male. Katsuyu for example, has a female voice, despite the fact slugs are hermaphrodite. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:21, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Sex =/= gender, Kurama has both masculine appearance and attitude/personality/behavior. It doesn't matter if it has a di** or not. Orochimaru had a female body, but never ceased being a male. EDIT: gender is both social and personal identity, someone might be genetically a woman/man but consider herself/himself a man/woman, that's why transsexuals exist in the first place. Gender isn't anything physical but mental and some sort of a status--Elveonora (talk) 20:30, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

True, though nowadays, gender is still widely used as a synonym for biological sex. Maybe we should change the word from "gender" to "sex" in the template, since what we always listed was the physiological aspect, not the socio-cultural one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:38, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

That would be a good thing to do. Except do we know if Kishi means the former or the latter? I don't know how it's written and thought of in Japanese and what the databooks say. Listing Kurama as unknown or not listing at all looks all weird imo since "it" didn't show any feminine traits... unless Tailed Beasts are asexual when it comes to both aspects "_" Not to speculate, but a possibility is that Haku was in fact a girl, raised by Zabuza as a boy (well, apparently wasn't too successful) this is purely hypothetical, not a speculation... I have no plans on starting again that one nor changing his infobox. I'm just pointing out that the difference is QUITE important and we shouldn't mix that up. It's not important as "what we always listed" because to me, it appears that Kishimoto is talking about gender as a gender. How Kurama acts and talk is enough of an evidence from my point of view. But again, ur an admin, ur rules.--Elveonora (talk) 20:53, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

But didn't son refer to himself as the monkey sage king or something among those lines? (Eastfire)--2.51.238.15 (talk) 21:21, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, he ain't a Queen ;D--Elveonora (talk) 21:52, November 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think its safe to say some of the tailed beast have confirmed genders. Though in Japanese their are gender neutral words that can be used for both male and female. These are normally used for the tailed beast in the manga, so I've been told. But I think we could say that some of the tailed beasts have confirmed genders. For example:

Skarrj (talk) 22:49, November 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Isobu refers to itself as 'boku' (ボク), which is used by young boys.
 * Son Goku refers to himself as king and has a masculine body(His chest).
 * Kokuo's name translate to "respectful king". This would mean he is male if anything.
 * Saiken is a slug so by default would be a hermaphrodites.
 * Chōmei is a Kabutomushi. Only male Kabutomushi get the large horns, females lack horns altogether.
 * Gyūki is described as a bull(Or rather an Ushi-Oni, a cross between a bull and an octopus). Bull's are male.
 * Shukaku, Matabi and Kurama have no obvious gender traits or nods towards their gender in the series that I could find.
 * Though the Shukaku has been said to be a priest, which would mean he is male. Though this could be wroung or simply his original Jinchuriki's status. He is also a Bakedanuki(Monster Tanuki or Tanuki Spirit) which are always male if I remember correctly.
 * Umm although traditionally boku is used for boys nowadays both men and women (although still more masculine).98.26.240.254 (talk) 23:11, November 24, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

Is this topic dead? lol Skarrj (talk) 00:22, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully not, but apparently Omni said his final word on the matter and others aren't bothered much lol--Elveonora (talk) 04:25, November 27, 2012 (UTC)

Trait
Should it be put that Kurama can "Hand Out Chakra Freely" under traits? Kurama noted that there was a difference between its self and Naruto, because it can give it out freely. Chapter 609 Page 12 Zelwolf (talk) 02:56, November 28, 2012 (UTC)Zelwolf

It is already noted as a tailed beast skill. Kurama said it was like the chakra transfer technique, but a tailed beast's chakra always fully replenishes without health risk. 03:20, November 28, 2012 (UTC)~ Wikia contributer 03:20, November 28, 2012 (UTC)~

Kurama the strongest Tailed Beast?
I get that Kurama was supposed to be sealed last in the Demonic Statue, but it has never been stated it was because it was the strongest.--80.116.146.223 (talk) 23:57, January 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't vouch for it, but their reason to seal Kurama last was something along the lines of the statue not being able to hand its power at the moment, needing the other beasts to be sealed first, either to grow used to the chakra, or so that there's enough chakra to balance out Kurama. It was a talk between Kisame and Itachi if I'm not mistaken. Check their talks around the time Kisame captured Rōshi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:04, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a bit confusing. Kisame says that the Nine-Tails was supposed to be sealed last in the Demonic Statue, because otherwise the Statue would crumble. It may be because the Nine-Tails is too strong to be contained by the Statue without the other Tailed Beasts, or because the eye corresponding to Kurama was the one in the center and as such there may have been too much power at one side than the other, making the Statue "fall" and then "crumble". But I get your reasoning. I'm sorry for disturbing.--80.117.74.72 (talk) 09:41, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Kurama and the shinigami
I was just wondering. Now that the shinigami has been cut open and the hokage's souls released and also orochimaru's arms, does anyone else think Kurama is about to get a big boost in chakra since his yin powers should be released? Loyalknight (talk) 17:57, February 22, 2013 (UTC)loyalknight


 * Who knows. From what little I understood, Minato used the Dead Demon COnsuming Seal to seal the chakra in him and not in the shinigami. But that of course is speculation so really who knows.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:00, February 22, 2013 (UTC)