Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180926002701

AsianReaper wrote: I haven't gone back and argued your points because I find them so fundamentally wrong that it seems useless. But lemme try to humour you. If you believe I’m so wrong then you should had no problem proving it, but yet my main point remains intact. AsianReaper wrote: You claim that the image on the page isn't enough to show that the eyes are the indicators of SPSM. And that a larger image shows him with his cloak on the page. While this may be among the most recent thing I’ve said, it’s far from everything. So I’ll be looking to see just how far back you go to for my previous replies, how much information you actually acknowledge and if you keep or change your perspective after doing so. AsianReaper wrote: True, the larger image shows his cloak. But the fact is, on the page describing SPSM, both images are present. So? Them both being on that page doesn’t automatically determine what each picture specifically means. That’s like walking into an apartment building and assuming every person you see is a tenant in that building. The most you can say about the two images is that they’re tied to rsm is some way or another. Just looking at them doesn’t give you enough information. You have to rely on the page itself for that. Creating meaning out of thin air won’t cut it. The image has a captions to tell you exactly what you need to know about it. That is what you must adhere to if you’re striving for accuracy.[www.587.claudiastrong.com/good-reads/cutlines/]   AsianReaper wrote: So, what can we conclude? It’s simply impossible to have reached a conclusion already. You just looked at a couple images. You didn’t read what was said about those images, so you know nothing about them. This is where your premise goes wrong. This jump to conclusion is premature and illogical. Today, there’re multiple working translations of the databook page. So there’s 0 reason to rely on the image alone. Without the words, these images are meaningless. Your conclusion is based on nothing. AsianReaper wrote: That both images are depicting SPSM. This is no more than a guess. You can’t possibly reach this conclusion from two meaningless images. You have no support for such claim. Again, if this is premise of the consensus, it is utterly wrong. AsianReaper wrote: So what do we conclude from that? You haven’t concluded anything. The databook isn’t a picture book. Hell even the art books, which are more picture heavy than any databook, have words on its pages. You’re taking an illogical leap, go back to those images and read what it says. That’s the only way to understand why they’re on the page. AsianReaper wrote: They have something in common that we can identify. Based on what you said so far, the only thing you know is that they’re on the same page. That’s not enough deduce the intent behind their inclusion. AsianReaper wrote: The thing in common that we can identify is that Naruto has cross-slits with no pigmentation in both pictures. For starters, both images don’t even show his eyes. If they were so important they would have been included. On top of that, I could easily say thing about other random body parts. Every picture of Naruto on that page shows Naruto’ legs. By your logic, Naruto’ legs are more indicative of rsm than anything else on the page. AsianReaper wrote: If it were because of Kurama giving him the Sage chakra, he would have made note of it. Like he made note of Son Goku giving him chakra. But he didn't. I'm not proving myself wrong, I'm using the images provided. But you are wrong because you have yet to tell me what the databook says the images mean, and the exact feat you ask for was shown later in vote2. AsianReaper wrote: Both images are used to depict SPSM. So what do they have in common? It's not hard to figure it out. I told you why they don’t both depict what you claim they do. Based on only the images in question, your comparison is unjustified. AsianReaper wrote: You keep saying the picture is showing his awakened Juubi power. Despite it not being stated on the page that SPSM used Bijuu chakra at all. It does state that biju chakra was used, but you wouldn’t know that because you still haven’t told me what the databook says about those images in question. Until you use the provided description in its proper context, your claims remain baseless. AsianReaper wrote: I'm not blatantly misconstruing anything. You literally are and I showed you precisely where. AsianReaper wrote: I'm using the context of the image being used on the SPSM page. You literally aren’t. You can’t fabricate context out of thin air. AsianReaper wrote: If it's being used on the SPSM page, it's obviously being used to describe SPSM in some way. That is neither obvious or true. You should know why by now. AsianReaper wrote: In this case, the caption said that the kick was only accomplished by a huge chakra, greater than Kurama mode. So it's describing that SPSM gives him greater chakra than Kurama mode. You finically mention caption. Unfortunately you did so out of context. Your interpretation of what’s being described is inaccurate. That’s like claiming madara, kabuto or jugo transformed and reached sagehood before they gathered sage chakra. That is simply untrue. In every instance sagehood was achieved, sage chakra was gathered prior, rsm is no exception. You are suggesting that kishimoto abandoned his own established mechanic, which is unsupported and again not true. The description denotes juubi power. In truth the image depicts Naruto with juubi power, which I proved using the manga and the novel page. That’s what is being shown, that’s why the image is relevant to rsm. AsianReaper wrote: I'm not spinning a narrative. You literally are, I pointed out where. AsianReaper wrote: I'm looking at the picture and the caption, and where it's placed. It's on the SPSM page. So what must the picture and caption be relevant to? Susanoo? You are saying one thing and doing the exact opposite. Plus the caption was missing from majority of your logic. Not only did you arbitrarily slap the caption at the end when it’s literally the only way to understand the image in question, you took what was said and made another illogical leap to a conclusion. This was pointed out also. AsianReaper wrote: He doesn't use the 9 Bijuu to power his chakra cloak anymore, but you've yet to convince me that he needs the 9 Bijuu to enter SPSM. The page from shikamaru’ novels directly compares hagoromo’, obito’, and Naruto’ rikudo sagehood. What was established was that with cooperation and power from each biju, Naruto gained that of a juubi jinchuriki. This proves me correct outright. Being a juubi jinchuriki or having the power of one is required to achieve rikudo sagehood. Case closed. AsianReaper wrote: It's never been stated that Kurama gathering Nature Energy causes lack of pigmentation. It's never been hinted at. It’s been shown numerous times; during vote2, gaiden, hokage Naruto’ training circa the graduation exams. AsianReaper wrote: You know what we do know? Kurama chakra + Sage Mode = Cross slit eyes WITH pigmentation. Naruto showed that twice. One in front of Nagato. The other time against Juubito. Why would there be a lack of pigmentation if the ingredients to the mode remained the same? Because the method changed. Kurama sharing his nature energy with Naruto doesn’t make rings appear, Naruto gathering nature energy himself does produce rings. We’ve seen both cases happen many times. Naruto gathers nature energy in gaiden and during the nue arc. AsianReaper wrote: You see, it's not that I don't have arguments to your claims. It's that I just don't understand how you reach so far for your conclusions and then accuse everyone else of reaching further than you. Quote me where I‘ve been reaching? I pointed out clearly why your claims doesn’t make much sense with what is known and provable today. I don’t just say ‘you aren’t making any sense’, I also proved it. I showed you the error of your ways. AsianReaper wrote: So I usually leave it alone and only argue one or two key points that I don't wanna let slide. You ‘letting stuff slide’ implies you can prove something different to be true. You’ve yet to do that. AsianReaper wrote: But my silence is not conceding the point. My silence is just me not feeling like putting in the effort to type such long paragraphs for someone who believes their own interpretations can only be objectively right. There is only two presented arguments. The one I’m debunking in the OP and my own. If there’s a third or fourth or 100th argument, I’m willing to hear it out. In fact that’s exactly what I’ve been requesting. How much you type isn’t important, it’s what you’re saying and what you can prove that is.

Look at all that I’ve proved. Look at all the counterarguments that I’ve addressed already. Look at how they all ended. You say you have more counterarguments yourself, if that’s true and if they aren’t repeats of already addressed counters, state them. Especially if you believe it debunks me. Why hold that back? If I’m wrong I’d like to know why. Which ties into the very first thing I told you in this reply. If it’s that easy, do it. But if you can’t debunk or disprove me, and have no new counters, all that’s left for you to do is concede.

You only addressed the last thing I said, let’s see what you have to say about the rest of my statements.