Talk:Rinnegan

Confused of the Six Jinchurikis of Pain
I'm confused as how there can be many Rinnegan when 3 people have it. Can someone help me out because it's confusing and bothering me (I know this isn't a forum) --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 02:01, June 25, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * We're as in the dark on this matter as you are. Attempting to answer this would only lead to speculation and thus "foruming" so lets just wait and see if this question is answered in the manga soon.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:14, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks Cerez. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 15:02, June 25, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Jinchuriki Wielders
Despite the fact that they're all dead, would the Jinchuriki also be counted as known wielders? Catero5 (talk) 04:34, June 30, 2011 (UTC)Catero5
 * Nope. We never considered the people whose bodies Nagato used to make his Six Paths of Pain as wielders of the Rinnegan, no reason to consider the jinchūriki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:57, June 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Essentially they're imply tools now, not characters.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:33, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Error
Something wrong with the infobox. The debut game and movie won't show up. Dueler65 (talk) 11:28, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Missing techniques
Why isn't the techniques of the Human and Preta Path listed in the infobox as they are Rinnegan techniques? Darksusanoo (talk) 00:30, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Blocking Technique Absorption Seal wasn't ranked as kekkei genkai in the third databook, and Soul Removal only showed up after. At first it wasn't listed as a kekkei genkai, because it was the same as Mind Reading, it was only split from it when Madara made it clear that using it always kills the victim. It's not listed as kekkei genkai because we've seen other techniques, like BTAS that weren't considered kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:37, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * How of can that be? Konan stated in the series that the abilities of the Six Paths of Pain were Rinnegan powers and that Nagato could use then as their own...we latter saw Nagato use those powers directly against B and Naruto...there derived powers of the individual path's. P.s Just out of curiosity has the 4th Databook been released yet? Darksusanoo (talk) 00:44, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * One of the path's powers was the Summoning Technique, and other than E-rank techniques, that's the most common technique in the series. And no, the fourth databook hasn't been released yet. If the interval between releases is kept, we should begin hearing about it soon though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:47, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Kuchiyose - Rinnegan
From the translations, (which I don't trust especially given where they came from this week >.>) Kabuto mentions the shared vision as a result of the "Kuchiyose-Rinnegan". Should we add it as a technique since it would explain how all those animals and bodies got the Rinnegan?--Cerez365™ 17:28, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe we should wait for a better translation.--Deva 27 17:29, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a technique. From the way it is worded, I'd say Kabuto simply meant 'the Rinnegan of the summons'. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:04, August 24, 2011 (UTC)

Elements
im little confuse and sorry for not signing post im not an member it says rinnegan can you any jutsu   does that include  like  wood release  ice release     lava release other kekei genkai like that
 * No. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:36, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

oh cause it said it allows the user to use any jutsu thanks for info

I wouldn't say an outright no, its a little vague at the moment. Nagato wasn't able to verify it due to his short panel times in battle. I would say its arguable either way. Its okay to argue one end (yes it can/no it can't), but to also acknowledge the possibility of the other side. Irregardless of your position, it would probably depend on the user's skill and mastery over particular elements, you can say, as the Rinnegan doesn't give you auto-mastery. --Jingo12 (talk) 00:25, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Why has it been changed from allowing mastery of all six basic nature transformations to just five without Yin & Yang being mentioned anywhere at all?
 * Because while it allows one to master the basic natures, it doesn't automatically grants them. The user still has to train in them. Regarding the change from six to five, read . Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:28, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

I believe it was changed because while the manga said with his eyes he was able to master all six elements, the databook said five; it may have been changed due to the contradicting information. From this we can get that mentioning the five elements is significant because a lot of ninja cannot master any element outside their elemental affinity without Kekkei Genkai or similar, while it seems Yin-Yang can be mastered by any ninja without being predisposed to an affinity or such.--Jingo12 (talk) 21:17, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

The Rinnegan in the photo needs to be redesigned
The Rinnegan has 5 visible circles not 4. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 17:29, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Really though? As long as the eye has the ripples it could have 10 and still be right.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:36, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Just sayin' is all. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 17:37, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * But something like that is unnecessary. It was never said that it had to have a set amount of circles like the Sharingan which is supposed to have 3 tomoe.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:38, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

The circles cover the eyeball, in most recent chapters, I've mostly seen four visible circles.--Deva 27 17:41, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

I was wrong and Deva is right. It's 4 visible circles and 1 non visible circle, and since the Rinnegan is that size the image should look the same. Look at chapter 551 page 4 when Nagato uses Naraka Path, His Rinnegan shows 4 visible circles and 1 non visible circle. Its there as seen by the color scheme and the older images in the manga colored and not. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:25, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Alright so I was proven right again. The most solid proof ever is in Naruto Chapter 550 page 15, Nagato is shown to have 5 circles in the Rinnegan and right after the 5th circle there is regular white eyeball color. The eyes turning grey because of the Edo Tensei strengthening made it even more obvious so the Image of the Rinnegan Shounensuki created needs to be fixed. Sorry if I sound like a jackass but you wouldn't want to see 4 points on Itachi's Mangekyo would you? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:43, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll repeat it again I suppose, it isn't the Sharingan where we were told that they have three tomoe. So until Kishimoto says the Rinnegan eye has a specific number of rings around it, then this is a moot point.--Cerez365™ 14:49, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/File:Rinnegan_Has_5_Circles_Only.png Look at this closely and you will see this point is not moot. I have circled in red the normal sclera right after the 5th ring. Just trying to prove a point here. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:55, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * That fine and all, but outside of your observation, where was it stated that the Rinnegan eye had to have five circles? That's the only way the image in the article would be "wrong"--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:12, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Let me explain this in an easier way. For example, where is it stated that Itachi's Mangekyo has to be designed like a 3 pointed shuriken? It isn't, but its made that way and Shounensuki made the image for Itachi's Mangekyo that way. Image wise this would be the same as choosing the 2 Tomoe Sharingan and using it as the image for the Sharingan instead of the 3 Tomoe. Point blank if something should be done it should be done right and it's up to Shounensuki if he agrees and wants to redesign his Rinnegan image. So there's no use in arguing over this. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 15:25, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing with you friend, I'm simply saying I don't see the sense in your argument until it's officially said that there's a specific amount of rings around the eye. Personally I've always thought that the entire eyeball had concentric rings around it so that's probably why I don't see any point to this.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:29, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I share Cerez's opinion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:07, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Me too. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 16:10, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

If you all agree with him then I will leave it be. I have been out voted Lmao ItachiWasAHero (talk) 16:18, September 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Although this discussion is as good as over, I'd like to point out that the sclera you marked in that image isn't sclera at all; it's the caruncle: the pinkish-red part in the corner of the eye. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:47, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

-___- I cannot believe I didn't realize this.. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:05, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

From ShounenSuki's Databook 3 Translation. "Its most distinctive feature being the ripple pattern spreading out over the eyeballs" This confirms the rinnegan isnt just 4 or 5 rings. It covers the WHOLE eye. I was very very wrong. This info should be added to the Rinnegans page. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:33, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Volume Changes
It has just been brought to my attention that in the seventh edition of volume 41, the mention of "the six ways of chakra nature transformation" that the Rinnegan grants has been corrected to "the five ways of chakra nature transformation." I haven't seen image evidence yet, but it came from two highly reliable sources. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:45, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would they change it? Seelentau 愛議 19:30, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It might have been a mistake from the beginning. It might be to incorporate a change in how Kishimoto-sensei wanted to showcase the chakra nature transformation. It might be to avoid any confusion that might arise from it. There are plenty of possible reasons for the change. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:55, September 25, 2011 (UTC)

Evolution of Sharingan?
Based in manga 560, is possible get rinnegan from a sharingan? Maybe kakashi have reason in "mutation theory"?


 * It seems there is a contradiction: 1"Madara managed to awaken the Rinnegan"; 2"whether or not this suggests that the Rinnegan is the final evolution of the Sharingan has yet to be confirmed". The first phrase suggests that the rinnegan is the final stage of the sharingan (Normal S>Mangekyou S>Eternal MS>Rinnegan). But the second phrase suggests its "unknown" if the rinnegan is the final evolution of the sharingan. I dont know what translated version of the chapter you read, but according to the translation from Mangastream or mangareader Madara awakened the rinnegan before his death and its true that the sharingan can get to the rinnegan. So, basically i think the phrase 2 should be deleted because according to the versions of the chapter i read the rinnegan is the final evolution of the sharingan (unless there is another final evolution).--201.230.25.11 (talk) 14:38, October 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * for now i suggest we keep the phrasing "Due to unknown reasons, Madara managed to awaken the Rinnegan shortly before his death" that statement is based on his own words from the manga(the translation we have so far) and fit fine withouth the need to speculate. Second, you must remember that the sharingan was born from the older son of the sage who inherited his eyes(different design) so it is highly possible that a sharingan user can evolve his eyes into the rinnegan, we just don't know how. --Gojita (talk) 15:08, October 19, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

it would make sence they have similar powers the sharingan allows you to copy any jutsu so i guess the evolution of that would be, be able to use any jutsu this allow them to fully copy any jutsu thats, kekei genkai im scared to think what the evolution of that is (74.141.196.236 (talk) 01:45, October 26, 2011 (UTC))

@74.141.196.236 You are misinformed. The Sharingan does not allow one to copy and use any jutsu. What it actually does is allow them to memorize and recognise them, not use them unless they have the capability to use the technique, which is why Sasuke, Kakashi, Itachi etc., can't just see Naruto's Rasenshuriken and use it. And also, technically the Sharingan is the evolution of the Rinnegan, although it can be said to be a diminished dojutsu in comparison. The Rinnegan does not automatically let one use any technique and nature transformation. It gives them the potential to master any type of standard nature transformation with more easily. The closest thing to it being said that it could use any technique was during the Invasion of Pain Arc, when Ibiki said that he wouldn't be surprised if a Rinnegan user could could use any technique they wanted. Skitts (talk) 02:40, October 26, 2011 (UTC) its copying look at this got from sharingan page to memorise almost any technique that he or she witnesses, apart from other kekkei genkai techniques. The user can memorise ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu with near perfect accuracy, allowing the user to use the techniques as their own, or even modify them to create their own new techniques, much like Sasuke Uchiha's Lion Combo. In order to reproduce a copied technique, however, one must have the necessary skill or ability to perform them. A prime example is Rock Lee's brand of taijutsu. While Sasuke was able to copy some of Lee's moves, they put a much more significant strain on him since he hasn't trained nearly as much as Lee has. In addition to physical skill and kekkei genkai techniques, the Sharingan cannot reproduce techniques dependent on other factors, such as summons that the user has not signed a contract with. e they can use it if they got skill  i  got this from sharingan page from this wiki the memorize then they be able to use it if they have skill   with rinnegan to they be able to use any non kekei genkai jutsu (74.141.196.236 (talk) 03:13, October 26, 2011 (UTC))

That the Rinnegan is an evolution of the Sharingan actually makes sense. Kishimoto's been setting this revelation up since, well, since Orochimaru was introduced. The Rinnegan, not the Sharingan, is Orochimaru's and Kabuto's "truth behind ninjutsu". Why else would Orochimaru want both Sasuke's Uchiha bloodline and be experimenting with Hashirama Senju's cells? Everyone thought Orochimaru was after the Sharingan for its copying abilities, but he was actually after the Rinnegan, or why wouldn't he just kill Sasuke and take his eyes? Orochimaru said Yamato resulted from an experiment to see if Hashirama's cells could be implanted into others, and that he wanted to run further experiments on Yamato. Danzo showed combining the Sharingan and Hashirama's cells could unlock power beyond either bloodline: the reality-warping Izanagi, the Sage of Six Path's trademark power, but in order to get the Rinnegan I'm thinking one needs to combine the Uchiha bloodline with that of the Senju, hence Orochimaru trying to possess Sasuke rather than just taking his eyes. Kabuto said he wanted a Zetsu, which are cloned from Hashirama, to run tests on, and even said to Madara that he and Orochimaru had come up with the theory that the Mangekyo could evolve into the Rinnegan provided the user's body had certain modifications (hinted to be the addition of Senju cells taken from either Tobi's clone of Hashirama, from Yamato, or from said Zetsu clone), and that Madara had validated it. And before anyone says "How did Nagato unlock the Rinnegan if he's not Uchiha or Senju?" I'm willing to bet that the Rinnegan that Tobi gave Nagato Uzumaki were Madara's, or more likely that Madara gave them to Nagato himself, seeing as how he initially thought he'd been resurrected using Rinne Tensei rather than Edo Tensei. 173.180.77.156 (talk) 21:07, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

I haven't read through the bulk of this, but I would like to remind all those involved that this isn't the place for speculation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:22, October 26, 2011 (UTC)

Enough with the speculation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:28, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Kekkei tota dojutsu and 'Beyond life and death'
In the chapter where Madara is summoned he says Nagato had finally grown (believing he had been brought back using the beyond life and death justu of the rinnegan) but its been said that the rinnegan can only resurrect people whom the weilder of the rinnega has recently killed cause their souls are stored for a short time in the King of Hell... Does what madara saud imply that a fully mastered Rinnegan can bring back anyone no matter how long they been dead? It could set the stage for more golden oldies being brought back as happened with edo tensei.

Secondly a kekkei tota is an advanced kekkei genkai.. which is very rare. Doesn't that mean rinnegan can be classified as a kekkei tota dojutsu since the sharingan has to evolve 3stages to get to the rinnegan and it is also very rare and so powerul a person can potentially become a 'god of creation'... What do you think?

We don't know, and no. Rinnegan has explicitly been called a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:20, October 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also! What is there about the Rinne Tensei technique was based off what was seen with Nagato's use. That might need to be changed with what Madara has said now.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:21, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

I've always taken Nagato's comment about his 'being in time' to use Rinne Tensei with a grain of salt, as he was nearly out of chakra at the time so it seems odd to assume that it is true in all cases. Skitts (talk) 23:01, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

UMm. about the--why else would Orochimaru want both Sasuke's Uchiha bloodline and be experimenting with Hashirama Senju's cells? Everyone thought Orochimaru was after the Sharingan for its copying abilities, but he was actually after the Rinnegan, - this makes sense since Orochimaru is trying to or was trying to master every justu he would need to able to master all chakra natures right? i know thats over with but i could not help it sorry.--Johnathan Hemphill (talk) 23:31, October 30, 2011 (UTC)ZahennNoria

He may have ultimately been after the Rinnegan, but his going after the Sharingan would also quicken his ability to learn all ninjutsu. And he seemed much more interested in gaining control over tailed beasts by experimenting with Hashirama's DNA than anything else. Not to mention, the other benefits granted by the aforementioned DNA. For all we know, it would have lowered the buffer time on his Immortality Technique like it did for Shisui's Mangekyo. On the note of chakra natures, it's perfectly possible for someone without the Rinnegan to learn the five basic natures, I've never heard anything stating that it wasn't possible. What the Rinnegan does is give the potential to master all five elements more easily, it is not the only way to do so (though, no one but Nagato has been noted to known them all). Skitts (talk) 23:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Susanoo
Should not Susanoo be added as a Rinnegan power due to Madara using it? --Elveonora (talk) 02:36, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * He's simultaneously using the Mangekyo Sharingan's power.--Deva 27 02:39, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi has had Susanoo activated when only his normal Sharingan was activated, but we don't add it because he apparently doesn't need his MS active to use it after activating it. I'd assume the same to be true for Madara as well. Skitts (talk) 02:41, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * When did Itachi do that? If you're talking about when we first saw him use Susanoo, he was nearly blind at time so his Mangekyo's design disappeared.--Deva 27 02:47, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thats a difference though, Itachi summoned Susanoo with his MS and when his eyes almost lost its light, they reverted to normal Sharingan. Madara summoned Susanoo with his EMS, cancelled it and then re-summoned it again with his Rinnegan. --Elveonora (talk) 02:53, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

No actually. I was talking about in chapter 551, when his eyesight is perfectly fine. Skitts (talk) 03:18, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * He's using Mangekyo Sharingan there.--Deva 27 03:24, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

I'm referring to page 14. You can see that the eyes don't the Mangekyo design. Skitts (talk) 03:35, November 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * They do. This can be seen even better in the Volume 58 version of the chapter.--Deva 27 03:37, November 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm looking at the page in question, and they look more like his Mangekyo Sharingan. If it was just his regular sharingan, there's be a gap between the tomoes and lines from the pupil. There, they connect and form the shape. XRoadToDawnX (talk) 05:26, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

So ShounenShuki or someone ? --Elveonora (talk) 15:37, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Rinnegan is the next level after the Sharingan, stated by Kabuto. Likely gained by some special means. (possibly Senju Powers) Anyway, Madara has the capabilility to use the Rinnegan.

He uses his MS. And then he gets owned. He defends himself with the Rinnegan. While Susanoo is dissipating after getting pulled out of it. And after he defends himself. *WITH THE RINNEGAN* Activates Susanoo again while using Bansho Tennin. And has deactivated and activated Susanoo again, a few times now, With the Rinnegan.

It is clear that when attaining the Rinnegan in an Uchiha. The power from the previous eye level's can be used with the Rinnegan. Making Susanoo. A MS and Rinnegan technique. But only a Rinnegan technique in regards to an Uchiha that has attained the Rinnegan.(79.66.86.97 (talk) 16:40, November 10, 2011 (UTC))

Thats not what Im asking ... I read manga dont worry. The question is if should or should not Susanoo be added as a Rinnegan technique. --Elveonora (talk) 17:14, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

It should be.(79.66.86.97 (talk) 21:15, November 10, 2011 (UTC))

I say No. We have specifics for how Susanoo is used, lets not venture into territories we know nothing of. Itachi has used Susanoo without directly activating his MS. Whether or not that's because of his near blindness, i don't know. But that's exactly why we should let it alone. Susanoo is an ability granted to those that possess Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, apart from that it was never said they had to have their Mangekyō Sharingans on to use it.--Cerez365™ 21:28, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi and Sasuke can use Susanoo, without having Rinnegan, ergo Susanoo doesn't require Rinnegan. Plain and simple. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Its not about requirement ... its about Susanoo being used while Rinnegan activated. --Elveonora (talk) 03:42, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

If we went by that logic, we would have already added Tobi's Space-Time Migration as a Sharingan technique since, from what we can tell, he has it active while using this, even though we don't know for certainty. And there are other techniques that Nagato used while having the Rinnegan active that aren't actually Rinnegan-rooted jutsu, that would be added based on that logic. Skitts (talk) 03:53, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I say we shouldn't add it as one of it's techniques because 1.) Itachi and Sasuke have been able to use Susanoo without the Rinnegan. 2.) Tobi (or someone else) said that you have to be able to use Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi to be able to use Susanoo (which you can't do with a regular Rinnegan) 3.) It has been said that Madara's Rinnegan is an evolved form of his sharingan (EMS or whatever) which means he should be able to use all his sharingan abilities. 4.) Nagato has never used Susanoo or even said anything about it. I'm sure that if he could use it then he would. Joshbl56 03:59, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I think we should. Its not about logic, its about practise. We have seen using Tobi his Space-Time stuff with Sharingan many times if not everytime. If you think that Tobi's powers are due to his magic mask, then as you please. And your Nagato example has no logic, but thanks. Meteorite technique is used both with Rinnegan and Susanoo helping to form handseals, meaning he can combite the powers. We have seen Susanoo being used with Rinnegan, thus I think it should be added ... by your logic Kamui should be removed as a MS technique since databook says it can be awoken by training one's chakra and Sharingan is not mentioned at all. Also to Josh, And dont even bother mentioning Nagato not being able to use Susanoo ... he is not an Uchiha as far as we know. Also, we have seen an user (Madara), using something then I think it should be added. Again, no other people were seen using Kamui other than Kakashi and Shisui's MS power is unique as well ... should these be removed as a MS powers from the article as well ? --Elveonora (talk) 04:09, November 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1 Im not saying that Rinnegan is a requirement for Susanoo, but that its able to use Susanoo with Rinnegan as well.
 * 2 Point being ? Madara can use both most likely since its stated in databook.
 * 3 Again, Im not talking about "why?" but "because"
 * 4 ...

Actually, with Tobi, no we haven't. To my knowledge, all we've ever seen is the target flowing into the eye hole of his mask. I never said it had anything to do with the mask, but that even though he may have his Sharingan activated while using the technique, it doesn't mean its a Sharingan technique. That was also the same intention of my Nagato comment, it actually has logic, thank you. The Susanoo situation had him forming three hand seals instantly. Since hand seals just mould chakra, that doesn't mean Susanoo is required for it since, again, it would just be moulding it more quickly. In regards to my Nagato comment, the intention there was that even though Nagato has used techniques while his Rinnegan active, that doesn't mean those techniques originated or are affiliated with the Rinnegan. Case and point, Blocking Technique Absorption Seal. Everything has indicated that this is only a Mangekyo technique, not a Sharingan. Sasuke and Itachi have said that it awakens after awakening Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. The 3rd Databook says the same. Thus it is directly related to the Mangekyo, not the Rinnegan. And as for your Kamui example, the 3rd Databook says that an Uchiha who trains their chakra for long enough could invoke this technique, meaning it probably isn't unique to Kakashi. The point is, we only add it if it is a requirement to use the technique. Skitts (talk) 04:45, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Ah ... I almost give up. Its not about that. If Tobi's space time technique is not Sharingan related, why he keep sucking thing in and out of his eye ? Thats what Im talking about ... theres no proof that Susanoo is required for Madara to use the Meteorite Technique, yet Susanoo is added as Rinnegan and Susanoo to cast Meteorites" not databook says that ... but its there and Susanoo being used with Rinnegan should be mentioned as a parent jutsu at least. Madara Uchiha is able to use Susanoo with Rinnegan ... its not about how? why? Its about he did. Again, I know Susanoo can be awakened after having both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi ... you still dunno what Im saying. If we were to see Naruto using "creation of all things" you would probably say it should not be added to his jutsu list becaus Naruto is not So6p ... --Elveonora (talk) 04:54, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Um, Skitts, I think you chose the wrong jutsu for this since both Nagato and Madara had to activate the Rinnegan to use Blocking Technique Absorption Seal.

As for the whole Susanoo-Rinnegan conversation, I still do not think we should add Susanoo to Rinnegan. To try to reform my answer, the only one we have seen using Susanoo with the Rinnegan is Madara. For now I think we should put that Madara can use Susanoo while activating his Rinnegan somewhere (Maybe in Rinnegan trivia or in Madara's Abilities description). Also, for Tobi's whole space-time eye technique, he could just be using his eye to see where he is being transported to. Remember that Tobi can also transport different parts of his body as well (as seen when someone tries to attack him and just go right through). Joshbl56 05:05, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

"the only one we have seen using Susanoo with the Rinnegan is Madara" Isn't one user enough for it to be added ? Will you add that only if Sasuke will run with Rinnegan and Susanoo activated or something ? I think Tobi's eye sucking and phasing are 2 different powers ... dunno why its said to be one though. --Elveonora (talk) 05:14, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

No, the technique I specified makes my point: just because someone uses a technique while their dojutsu is active doesn't mean that dojutsu is a requirement for the technique. I don't know of any other instance on the wiki where we added a technique to a something for which it isn't required in order to use. BTAS isn't on the Rinnegan page because it isn't a technique that someone has to have a Rinnegan in order to use. In every other case for Susanoo, the user needs to have a Sharingan to use it. Madara still has his EMS, he just switched to his Rinnegan. It's not a Rinnegan technique, so I do not believe it needs to be added. If someone that never had a Sharingan used Susanoo, we'd add it, but Madara has it. Skitts (talk) 05:21, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

So ur saying that Madara could be able to use Susanoo without both his eye techniques activated at all ? My last words on this: So you are saying that its not important that Madara used Susanoo while Rinnegan active because he can switch and its basically the same eyes, meaning he should be able to use Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi with Rinnegan activated as well. Then by your logic, he should be able to use Rinnegan powers with his EMS activated as well ? If so, why he has activated Rinnegan to counter the attacks ? This is my final proof. --Elveonora (talk) 05:29, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Did I say that? No. What I did say was, we have only this instance that could indicate that the Rinnegan can activate it, but that the requirements of this technique are purely rooted in the abilities of the users Mangekyou Sharingan, not the Rinnegan. That is what constitutes adding a technique to the page. Skitts (talk) 05:35, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Facepalm ... We have seen him using Susanoo with Rinnegan, but not that barrier stuff with EMS thus indicating thats its possible for a higher level of the eye technique to use the "lower" powers .. ie. Rinnegan being able to use MS powers. And its not "could" its he did. --Elveonora (talk) 05:40, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

About Madara having to change to the Rinnegan, since we said that the Rinnegan is nothing more than another step in the Sharingan evolution, then the one of the lower evolution shouldn't be able to use the higher evolutions abilities. If they could then Itachi and Sasuke wouldn't have to activate their Mangekyo Sharingan just to use Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, or Susanoo. Joshbl56 05:41, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Again, repeating myself. If the Rinnegan isn't a requirement to use the technique, it doesn't go on the list. @Joshbl56 well, to be technical, the Sharingan is a depreciated (evolved may be a better word) form of the Rinnegan. Skitts (talk) 05:45, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Joshb156, thats what Im trying to say. It makes sense for an Uchiha to be able to use MS power with its "evolution" Rinnegan but not using Rinnegan powers with MS. And Madara did so, thus should be added. @Skitts, where its said that it must be a requirement for a technique to be added ? Thats like saying Many Hidden Shadow Snake Hands should not be added if the person was not seen using its lesser version since its a "requirement" or that other people except Naruto should not have multiple shadow clone technique listed since only Naruto read the scroll of seals ... --Elveonora (talk) 05:48, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Because it originates from a specific Kekkasi Genkai, hence possession of that specific KG is a requirement to use any techniques and abilities granted by it. If you look at the list of techniques on every dojutsu page (or any KG page), you'll see that every technique is one that requires that KG, hence why it is on the list. And Kage Bunshin isn't only known to those who have read the scroll, it's simply a techniques Hasirama added to it because it is dangerous to use. Not really even similar to this case. It's not about using "a lesser version of it". Skitts (talk) 05:53, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Oh so you mean that Susanoo is said to be a MS technique possible to unlock after having both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomu so its unique to MS. But you see, in Madara's case its not. Thats what Im talking about. But you are right ... better to wait a 1 more chapter or 2. But if Madara will be seen using Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi with Rinnegan then I really see no reason for them not being added to Rinnegan page as well. --Elveonora (talk) 06:01, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry Elveonora but I'm going to have to agree with Skitts on this one. We should only add what is required to use said technique. I added that Madara has been seen using Susanoo with the Rinnegan on the Susanoo page (though I'm sure it will be taken off). Joshbl56 06:02, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. But why ? I see no reason for it to be taken off. Its a trivia and we can put a chapter reference as well. I think its enough for it to be in trivia ... I dont want to edit it with "Susanoo is a Rinnegan tech as well" or something ... but I think it should be stated in Rinnegan article right after Madara Uchiha awakened before death. --Elveonora (talk) 06:06, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the rudeness up there. I was getting annoyed at the wifi problems I was having, and that bled into my posts. o3o Skitts (talk) 06:09, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Im sorry as well. I guess we will have to wait for Omni or Shounen to decide. --Elveonora (talk) 06:10, November 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, let me just add my two cents here, then. There is no denying that Madara used Susanoo while having his Rinnegan activated, but we cannot say with any certainty that he used it through his Rinnegan. Just because he had his Rinnegan activated doesn't mean he had his Mangekyō Sharingan deactivated, after all.
 * Combine that with the fact that we haven't a clue if those with only the Rinnegan (like Nagato and the Sage of the Six Paths) can use Susanoo, and I come to my opinion that we shouldn't say that Susanoo is a Rinnegan power as well. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:44, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

I see. So better to wait for further manga evidence then, thank you. --Elveonora (talk) 22:06, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Adding Susanoo to Rinnegan is silly to me. I'm against listing it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:47, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Its settled then. --Elveonora (talk) 23:52, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Just something i just realized.
Madara was able to switch off and on the Rinnegan, so its obvious it can be turned off, but just like Itachi and Madara, Nagato never turns his doujutsu off. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 05:44, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

He did. He killed his parent's murders with Rinnegan and it switched off only to turn on when Yahiko stuff happened. (Same with Sasuke, while kid he activated it for a few secs only to awake it for real years later) Remember the eyes are not his, so he can't turn it on/off by will. If what Tobi said is true, he gave them to him. --Elveonora (talk) 06:20, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

When was it said it couldn't be deactivated? That should have at least been clear from the beginning of the Invasion of Pain.--Cerez365™ 12:00, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

It was never said he could either. Since it's possible the eyes were not his. But this topic is pointless, what's the point ? If we will be sure they were transplants, then it can be stated he could not. --Elveonora (talk) 15:46, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Nagato is only as old as Minato's age group which would be around shibi and chouza's age's respectively. Jiraiya was 54 when he died. Do the math, how could the eyes have been transplanted? They most likely couldn't have, he didnt literally give the to Nagato, he helped make Nagato is what I am thinking, hence the giving of the DNA which is the giving of the rinnegan, Uzumaki plus uchiha dna makes Nagato. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 01:47, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Plus think about it, the fact Yahiko was 25-30 years old when he died, and the fact Nagato Unlocked the Rinnegan before he was 10 while he lived with his mother and "father". The real Madara knew Nagato and said that brat Nagato finally grew up, this means the real Madara who awakened his rinnegan shortly before his death, knew Nagato when he was still a child. Nagato had to awaken his OWN rinnegan, making him the 3rd rikudo. Madara awakened his own Rinnegan, making him the 2nd rikudo. Just use your brains people. It all hints towards not being transplants, also don't forget the new Akatsuki was formed after Yahiko's death, and either the old Akatsuki or new Akatsuki was coerced into creation by Tobi. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 01:52, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

This isn't a forum though friend...--Cerez365™ 02:09, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Don't state your opinions as facts please. Details of what happenen are unknown for now. If you read the manga, Madara survived his battle with Hashirama and lived long enough after to know Nagato. If you are interested, post to my talkpage and we can discuss ... I have my own theory of what happened. We don't know which "Madara" encouraged Yahiko to create Akatsuki. --Elveonora (talk) 09:32, November 18, 2011 (UTC)