Talk:Izanagi

Should we really put this page up for now? I mean, even if it is no longer a spoiler, there has been nothing about this technique that we know of, aside from the name. Just like Chibaku Tensei, when Nagato said its name on Chapter 438, we didn't knew what its effects were until the next chapter. So should we wait until Madara or Danzō explain what the technique actually does before putting this page up? Yatanogarasu 17:18, January, 14 2009 (UTC)

Until Madara explains what exactly it does, everything we know about this technique are nothing but especulations. I prefer to wait for his explanation, but we could put the name "Izanagi" in Danzo's page for while, without a link of course, like we did with Chibaku Tensei a long time ago. Shadow Abyss (talk) 02:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record (you may want to put this in "trivia" or something), Izanagi is one of the two Gods in the Shinto creation myth, the other being Izanami. They were a man and a woman who were given a magical Naginata (kind of like a spear) to raise the first earth out of nothingness. They basically became the parents of Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, and Susanno.


 * For the record, I'm pretty sure this page was only created from vandalism, before the new chapter was released.--Enoki911 (talk) 04:35, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

It's going to be made sooner or later. Might as well leave it as something vague and people will edit it later.--The tick rules (talk) 05:46, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we put a pic in the box area, i know it maybe too early but it feels off without one --Exhorresco (talk) 23:32, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Mind-controlling Dōjutsu (Unnamed)
isn't this jutsu kind of related to the Mind-controlling Dōjutsu (Unnamed) jutsu because all he does is hypnotising the person he is fighting --94.183.154.188 (talk) 09:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Pure speculation. The manga is pointing it to being the jutsu he is useing to constantly revive himself.BEsides that jutsu your talking about is an exclusive techinque to him and Shisui only so no its not just hypnotizinng a person like most sharingan can do.Saimaroimaru (talk) 15:34, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

That isn't what it is pointing out. It is pointing out that the jutsu allows the user to split in and out of reality. Therefore allowing them to touch others but not be touched themselves. This would still not allow for mind control.WolfMaster (talk) 21:37, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed Upon?
"It is interesting to note that Izanagi may also be the technique that Madara used to escape Amaterasu which Itachi had implanted into Sasuke's eye to prevent their meeting."

Well is it? We shouldnt put unconfirmed stuff, Im removing it --Exhorresco (talk) 18:52, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

It's possible that he just used his space-time technique. But Madara is still a possible user. We haven't seen his left eye yet, which leads me to think that the "damage" that his sharingan supposedly has was due to using Izanagi at the end of his battle with the First. Not only would this explain (some) his supposedly lost power, but also how he fooled the First into thinking he was dead.

Or, Madara could've kept the fact that he had the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan obscure( to himself ). This in turn keeps the fact that he is immortal, hidden.
 * Madara's survival was due to some other jutsu. Itachi [And the databook] claim that his eyes are fine, and the databook stated that the jutsu he used to survive and stay alive is known only to him.Wreiad (talk) 20:54, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really which one? Can you send me a link, image, anything at all?
 * Sure. Read the tobi Translation and the chapter page  EDIT: Please remember to sign your comments.Wreiad (talk) 21:09, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you agree with me that it wasn't Izangai that Madara used? [p.s. thx for the links!!^_^]JaiBoogie (talk) 21:42, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The databook came out before the new chapter did. It's possible that some things were changed. However, odds are that he did not use this jutsu to escape Sasuke's Amaterasu. Putting that in the page is speculation.--Enoki911 (talk) 01:59, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes Jai, I'm doubtful it was Izanagi. It really doesn't seem like that given the picture of him pierced with a sword and how someone poofs after being fatally hit while using Izanagi. @ Enoki | He seems to have used the Kamui jutsu to remove the fire. I agree this stuff should be left until it the truth comes to light.Wreiad (talk) 02:23, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Yes and due to the fact that Madara stated here at the bottom of the page that the eye's used to cast Izanagi would lose their eyesight and never open again. Doing the math considering the fact that he fought the 1st after taking his brother's eyes, if he used the technique to escape the 1st then that left him with one good eye. Then if he used it to evade the Rasengan that would leave him blind. If he took Itachi's eyes after Sasuke said that he didn't want them he would be able to use it two more times. If he used Izanagi to put out Amaterasu he would again have on good eye. Now i'm not going to go through the other attacks that Madara evaded but I will use his fight with Fu as the last example. During that fight he was stabbed through the head if he used Izanagi then he would be blind again therefore unable to watch the fight between Danzo and Sasuke. This is only if you are stating that Madara's time-space jutsu is Izanagi. Also it can be fair to say that Izanagi is not a Mangekyo technique seeing as how Danzo doesn't appear to have a Mangekyo sharingan on his body and the evidence of the eyes that used Izanagi would close and the sharingan that have closed were normal then that means anyone who possesses the normal sharingan can use it.WolfMaster (talk) 21:25, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Question
When Danzo releases Izanagi, does the closed Uchiha eyes reopen? --Exhorresco (talk) 23:43, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait until Friday and see for your self. Jacce | Talk 05:24, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Honza8D (talk)

They don't reopen as Madara states here that any sharingan that is used to cast the technique would close and never reopen.WolfMaster (talk) 23:35, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Image
I have this image, but I don't know if it is good enough to put up on the page.--Mpc797 (talk) 01:32, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * How does that represent the jutsu at all? Simant (talk) 01:34, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It shows Danzo negating the effects of him geting hit by the arrow, which is represented by the puff of smoke--Mpc797 (talk) 01:36, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is good, but I think we should also include a picture of Danzo's eyes closing. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 14:38, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Genjutsu
I know that this is confirmed genjutsu, but I don't quite understand how. Genjutsu acreate illusions; Izanagi makes illusions into reality. Can someone explain?--Enoki911 (talk) 02:01, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically, this genjutsu is so powerful that it actually warps reality, though only in a short range. Instead of creating illusions, one becomes illusions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:06, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't quite make sense. It says in the article itself that, according to Madara at least, the user places the genjutsu on themselves. If that is so, then wouldn't that only cause the user to only think that they were dead, when in actuality they weren't?--Enoki911 (talk) 02:29, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

This can be summed up with a philosophical theory that life is all a dream and you are merely the imagination of yourself meaning that like genjutsu life is just an illusion. If following this idea and thinking of the statements made about Izanagi being able to alter reality and being cast on the user. This will mean that Izanagi is a genjutsu that alters a preexisting illusion (reality) of the user who is also an illusion since they are the imagination of themselves. This explains the effects how the user is very aware of themselves as reality and they are both illusions and Izanagi alters both at the same time. The jutsu simply makes the user (illusion) unable to be hit by another person (another illusion) but to still be able to touch them. And if the user is aware of the genjutsu cast on them they will not feel any effect of the genjutsu other than altered perception. This may have complicated things, but does this help to explain the jutsu?WolfMaster (talk) 21:35, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we were to accept that philosophy as true, then yes. However, this is a highly debatable theory, so it doesn't quite seem adequate to me. There is no proof, both in the Naruto world and the real world, that we are mere illusions, dreams, etc. Any other ideas?--Enoki911 (talk) 07:02, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Amusingly enough, there is no proof we aren't mere illusions or dreams. Just because we feel, doesn't necessarily make us real. Ponder that for a moment. ^_^ We do know however, that this is a genjutsu cast on oneself that warps reality for the user.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:22, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, all i'm saying is that if a genjutsu (illusion technique) is used to affect actual reality and not just the reality of what seems to be then reality has to be an illusion itself as genjutsu, by what has been said so far can only affect illusions and alter perceptions. However altered perceptions does not count here as that would be implying that Izanagi makes the enemy think that they hit the user when they actually did just for the injury or death to be turned into an illusion. I'm not saying that there is proof or even that reality is an illusion but so far this is all we have to go on as one chapter is not enough to explain a jutsu completely if it is kept ambiguous throughout the chapter. Though I do have a question of my own, though Izanagi changes reality and only lasts a short time. Then why didn't Sasuke see through the illusion sooner than he did? After all one ability of the sharingan is to be able to see past genjutsu, this job being made easier since Sasuke wasn't the one trapped in the genjutsu.WolfMaster (talk) 15:33, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * A) If you want to have a philosophical discussion, then go to my talk page. B) In response to your Sasuke question, WolfMaster, either Sasuke did see through Izanagi, and kept quiet so that Danzō wouldn't know that he knew, or he was simply too distracted by his anger at Danzō, having to focus on the fight, and the strain of using Susanoo. Personally, I favor the first.--Enoki911 (talk) 17:29, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Madara
I know this isn't confirmed and it shouldn't be posted until it is but it is more than likely that Madara is able to use Izanagi for a couple pf reasons. For one he probably used it to survive from the first hokage making him go blind in his left eye. That would also explain why he wheres a mask that only has one eye hole. Remember this is just a theory not fact so nobody edit any pages because of this. 76.126.77.35 (talk) 23:14, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's rethink this. Madara has an eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, meaning it doesn't go blind. If he did indeed use Izanagi, would the effect [Blindness] apply to him? We don't know. Furthermore, Itachi already said his eyes are fine, and the databook claims his jutsu is something else.Wreiad (talk) 23:33, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

It actually states that you can't go blind by normal means with the eternal mangekyo sharingan, which Izanagi is not a natural way of going blind. But still it hasn't been proven that Madara can use Izanagi, it's just a theory.76.126.77.35 (talk) 23:49, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not a forum. Do not post speculation here.--Enoki911 (talk) 06:59, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Genjutsu ?? Dōjutsu??
"Izanagi is a Sharingan dōjutsu which the Uchiha clan deemed forbidden. According to Madara Uchiha, it is the most powerful genjutsu an individual can cast upon themselves." I'm a bit confused here... --Blaublau94 (talk) 06:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's nothing to be confused about, the two terms are not mutually exclusive. Genjutsu means the technique creates an illusion, while dōjutsu means the technique is performed with one's eyes. Izanagi is both. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:09, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Effects
According to this article, "The actual effects of Izanagi varies from user to user". But, where it this stated? 201.214.101.91 (talk) 15:25, February 5, 2010 (UTC)