Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26388300-20160405070243/@comment-27924662-20160430153219

Thekillman wrote: Ravenlot 27 wrote: Serously, there are times I think about all these discussions on Edo-Madara vs Edo Hashi topic being sheer jokes. Same here. Madara was under the seal yet he could still easily control Obito. He wasn't trying to escape the seal because he was using Obito's nice gesture to revive himself. this is an overstatement madara never controlled obito it was black zetsu so yes you are wrong.......... Thekillman wrote: He battled Hashirama to kill time. I mean, when Obito was doing the plan Madara just sat and waited until Hashirama was free to fight him. The moment he was revived he started to use Rinnegan powers, restrained Hashirama and Tobirama with the receivers and stole Hashirama's chakra. If he could do that, why did he wait until he was alive? "a ninja must see through deception". one thing he couldn't form those black receivers since they weren't true rinnegan that's why he couldn't access those black receivers and some rinnegan techs and besides hashirama had a jutsu to absorb chakra too so no I don't think it's a big diff and besides if you watch fight carefully he did used wood dragon against hashirama so you are wrong on this count too. Thekillman wrote: As to Madara using Kurama, Madara had put him under summon, therefore Kurama was his summon. Discussions about Jiraiya and the Sannin involve summons, and i don't see people complain there. In fact, summons are integral to their style. this argument is good one and in my favor.as summon kurama is the best one you could ever think of,(since it can heal the damage sustained with it's chakra ,it has fire- wind chakra nature, than it has tailed beast bomb,size etc).besides inorder to counter madara in this scenario hashirama never brought in summon animal by himself, he defeated both(madara+kurama) black and blue with his own power so saying hashirama being stronger than both madara and kurama together is an accurate description. Thekillman wrote:

Furthermore, Hashirama had more raw power than Madara, which you can define as "strength". But Madara with his Mangekyou has access to special techniques, which one can also see as strength. In what regards Madara considered Hashirama stronger, well i think it's clear he was talking about reserves. I don't think its clear madara was talking abt reserves. if he was he would have just said so.and besides if hashirama had only more chakra and was inferior to madara in skill he wouldn't have won in every encounter........

Thekillman wrote: I stand by the fact that Onoki had no problems dealing with stuff like Deep Forest Emergence and even things like Susanoo were broken. Combinations of power like the Raikage with Onoki were able to overcome even insanely powerful techniques. wood clones were dealt with. A meteor -dwarfing even True Several Thousand Hands by an order of magnitude- was dealt with. If the Kage could deal with the kind of godlike crap Edo Madara threw at them, they can handle Hashirama. It's only the Rinnegan-Edo Tensei invincible combination that gave the Kage no way to win realistically. Without the Rinnegan making Ninjustu useless and without the Edo Tensei making defeat by actual death impossible, they could've handled Edo Madara. Onoki barely managed to pass by those techniques.(luck also played a factor here) also when that meteor was falling madara was just standing their waiting to see how they would counter infact he did this everytime he used any said technique he waited for their counter patiently. if he really wanted to kill those 5 he could have curb stomp them long back. comparing .edo madara with sage mode hashi (in terms of endurance, healing power and chakra levels alone is a good approx. since he had enough strength to beat both madara and kurama as well as restrain kurama even after end of fight). abt that metor and thousand hands jutsu I think if that 1000 thing jutsu can take on tailed beast bomb it means it has quite a high endurance and besides that jutsu destroyed a kurama enhanced PS. whereas those 5 kages had tough time against the normal PS also abt Susanoo Wood golem is almost of same power so yes 5 kages are in for long exhausting battle. though hashirama not able to absorb ninjutsu and edo tensei is a huge minus but I think he can still cover all of that up with his healing and sage mode. besides hashirama can also use those frog kumite style type of attacks which the kages won't even see coming. Thekillman wrote:

Hashirama can die. Hashirama can't absorb techniques. Those two facts mean that the Kage actually have a realistic path to victory, unlike the time they fought an immortal jutsu-nullifying zombie god. Jutsu only hit Madara when he felt that absorbing them was beneath him. and madara allowed himself to get hit, it's quite possible that hashirama can avoid those attacks and besides his healing power with sage mode makes him quite indestructible so I think he can tank hits and besides you are right abt the kages have a realistic chance of say 40% of winning the fight