Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26005711-20150512133037/@comment-26773508-20150807100212

RikudoSasuke wrote: precisely. if by only temporarily manifesting kushina-power karin could pressure zetsu for a while .he should have been no problem for the strongest hokage who was reincarnated very his near prime (as per tobirama) with the buffs of edo tensei. i think the best hiruzen thought he could have done was stay put and play defence for the allies. personally i think hiruzens abilities were greatly exaggerated.im not saying he wasnt good,just that it might be a bit presumptious to put him above hashirama ,madara etc just based on hearsay from random ninja.even his position as hokage is questionable,seeing as the next best candidate was pre-sharingan danzo.in his prime he probably had a lot of chakra ,and i can understand how a ninja that knows so many jutsu can be a real threat and seem like a living legend ,but that doesnt make one ninjagod level.not many living ninja saw the likes of hashirama and madara in life therefore the nearest thing to a ninjagod they had was hiruzen,and the legend just stuck. hiruzen was greatly overestimated. infact that might have been what lead to his death.during konoha crush when hiruzen vs oreo ,gai suggested him and kakashi assist hiruzen.they later agreed that hiruzen was more than capable of taking on oreo, and they proceeded to fight fodder sound ninja as hiruzen bit the dust.thus the myth of hiruzens abilities lead to his demise Given Gai's shippuden feats he could have solo'd Orochimaru by opening the 7th Gate, IMO. Him not opening the chakra gates during Konoha invasion seems like a plot hole. But your reasoning resolves this, as Hiruzen was so overhyped Gai thought it was enough to just kick a bunch of fodder Sound ninjas, which didn't require any gates. And so Sarutobi's undeserved hype got himself killed at the end.

Also, an interesting thing from DB4, since some users are using it in their arguments anyway. Apparently, Karin's Adamantine Chakra Chains are only a pale shadow of Kushina's Chains. That's what DB4 claims. So Tobi/Guruguru's Wood Kannon gets defeated by a shitty version of Kushina's chains while Hiruzen watches on helplessly? So on the one hand, DB4 implies that Hiruzen>Tobirama. On the other hand, it claims that a weak version of the Uzumaki jutsu defeated something Hiruzen (with unlimited chakra supply and Enma) couldn't. Meanwhile Tobirama goes badass mode, first by scaring the Oro Gang and then by being awesome against Juubito. Gotta love the inconsistencies and contradictions the databooks create.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the DB4 claims that Single-MS Obito=EMS Madara. That's just pure bullcrap unless it's War Arc Obito with one Rinnegan. But I heard about that databook claim from other users so I can't be sure. But if it's indeed written in DB4 that Pre-War Akatsuki Obito=EMS Madara, then that just destroys DB4's credibility, as it is contradicted in the manga numerous times. Obito, while posing as Madara during the Five Kage Summit, claims that he's only a "pathetic shell of his old self" thanks to the injuries sustained during the battle at VotE. Itachi says the same about "Madara" during his fight against Sasuke. Pre War Obito has shown no feats that says that he's comparable in power to EMS Madara. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Obito hesitated to attack Konoha again because he was afraid Itachi would create some problems. EMS Madara wouldn't be afraid of the likes of Itachi. Heck, EMS Madara would have no need of Akatsuki in the first place. The whole idea of Obito needing to manipulate Akatsuki strongly implies that he's way below EMS Madara.