Talk:Amenominaka

Infobox image
The current single image doesn't really help to depict the technique. Is anyone able to acquire a screenshot of before they are all teleported to the lava dimension? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:30, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why would an image of them out of one of the dimensions be a better depiction? Considering the point of the jutsu is taking people to these dimensions, I don't see how showing them in one of them is a bad depiction. The only image better than what is currently shown, in my opinion, is if we can get an image of the precise moment the teleportation is taking place, like showing the actual transition from one dimension to another. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:22, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Which is impossible, because the scene is focused on a character up close, then zooms rights out with them in another dimension. This image is perfectly fine, no need to change it. --Sajuuk 18:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * If the anime ever shows a dimension transition zoomed out, kinda like how we can see the background changing in Storm 4 when you have Kaguya changing the dimensions, then I think it's worth changing the image. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:26, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Omni that's what I mean. I think that either two images would be better in this case for narrative (one that shows them on the battlefield in the exact same locations and then in the lava dimension the way the manga did) or one that shows the precise moment of teleportation. I'm not aware of how the anime did it since I haven't watched it myself.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:27, June 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, two images is what you meant. In the absence of a transition image, yes, I do think it would preferable. I just don't recall if the anime has shown the characters in the same relative positions before and after teleportation in a way that would be clear when comparing two images. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:59, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Jutsu’s principle
Ok, this is not the first time I have brought up this topic, but is this Jutsu really just a teleportation? Both Kakashi (https://mangabeast.com/manga/Naruto/0682-012.png) and Zetsu (https://mangabeast.com/manga/Naruto/0684-013.png) refer Amenominaka as an ability to change dimensions i.e. instead of teleporting her enemies into one of her dimensions, she actually summons the dimension itself. This would explain the enormous chakra cost, despite her being the owner/creator of said dimensions, and her inability to transport selected people instead of everyone caught up in Amenominaka’s range. The databook also supports my claim.

Amenominaka:

A jutsu used by Kaguya with her "Rinnesharingan". Changes the world around the user and the people around her into another dimension. The dimensions it can move to are ones of lava, ice, gravity, sand, and acid, and these five dimensions are directly linked to (whatever dimension Black Zetsu mentions back when Naruto is there with them. I can't remember or figure out how to translate it). Using it consumes a huge amount of chakra, making it an eye jutsu only she can use.


 * The references you mention also support the teleporting explanation ("The dimensions it can move to are..." and "feels the same as when we were taken"). There are others: Sakura asks in 683 if others could have been brought along with them; in 685, Sakura recognizes the lava dimension as where they were before; in the same chapter, Obito comments on how impressive it is to instantly travel between such large dimensions; if Kaguya is only changing reality around her, there wouldn't be much need for Hagoromo to summon everyone back from there, nor would it be possible to abandon Kaguya's prison in her dimension.
 * As with many concepts introduced at the end of the series, this jutsu is poorly explained and at times seems contradictory. But its uses in the series do not make sense if it's merely some localized alteration. ~SnapperTo 18:24, July 11, 2019 (UTC)
 * There's also the fact different characters were at different dimensions at the same time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:37, July 11, 2019 (UTC)
 * I’m not suggesting that she created those dimensions the moment she casted the jutsu, since they were implied to had been created in different fashion through ETSO beforehand, I’m saying that she’s somehow capable of overwriting the environment with one of her dimensions (I.e she actually summons one of her dimensions, rather than merely teleporting people into it : https://mangabeast.com/manga/Naruto/0680-012.png), similarly to how Jiraiya can summon toad’s stomach separately from the toad itself. I don’t think it’s all that far-fetched, considering Hagoromo, who is inferior to Kaguya by all measures, could literally create things out thin air using the power of his imagination. Also, the jutsu Obito mentioned was Yomotsu Hirasaka, since he hadn’t seen Amenominaka in action yet. In any case, I don’t think that the present information used on this page is correct and does not line up with statements given in the manga and databook. ~ Solo King
 * Jiraiya brings the toad's stomach to the inn where they're staying; they are inside the stomach, yes, but it's only a layer over the local environment that they can walk away from. Amenominaka doesn't do that: Kaguya and those near her actually end up in the dimensions that she shifts to, leaving whatever previous dimension they were in unaltered. Maybe "teleport" is an oversimplification of the process, and maybe the article can explain the jutsu better, but what you seem to be arguing in favor of is not accurate. I realize you're basing it on statements in the manga and databook, but there are more statements in favor of the teleportation-esque mechanic. ~SnapperTo 17:15, July 12, 2019 (UTC)
 * I see no contradiction here. She doesn’t really alter dimensions or create them, she essentially summons them. It can be a teleportation either way, but a very advanced one, where the surroundings are affected instead of the people (I.e she overwrites the world). Again, I’m not saying she alters dimensions that already exist, but to say that she only teleports herself and people and around her would be a gross oversimplification. The jutsu has been explained enough to roughly understand its mechanics. Also I don’t think Amenominaka is connected in any way or form to FTG, Yomotsu Hirasaka and other “generic” S/T ninjutsu. ~ Solo King
 * No, it's very clear she goes other places instead of bringing the dimension to where she is. The reincarnated Hokage go where Naruto et all were and find no trace on them, one of the sensors saying their chakra vanished. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:17, July 12, 2019 (UTC)
 * Team 7 goes from being on Earth to be in the lava dimension. The Earth is unchanged in the process other than the disappearance of Team 7. So what you're describing, or at least the words that you're using, is not accurate. Kaguya may be summoning the dimensions to her location, but then that means she is simultaneously summoning the previous dimension away. So what is happening to Team 7 may not be teleportation in execution, but it is teleportation in effect. "Re-place" perhaps. ~SnapperTo 20:23, July 12, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I’m completely fine with that. Thanks for understanding. ~ Solo King