User talk:Minamoto15

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There's a lot to do around here, so we hope you'll stay with us and make many more contributions. And again, welcome to. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Seelentau (talk) 17:36, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Nature Types
No, not necessarily. KG are not automatically listed when you insert the advanced nature types in a character's nature section in the infobox. You must enter the advanced nature in the KG section of the infobox for it to be classified as a KG for that character. • WindStar7125     20:00, November 12, 2014 (UTC)

re: mobile
You need to take a screenshot and upload it to an image hosting site (imgur/tinypic) and link it here so people can see what you are talking about... --Sajuuk Talk Page 16:44, November 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * The change to the Wikia Global Navigation is permanent. Bugs with the mobile theme need to be reported via Special:Contact/bug as it's not something we can control. --Sajuuk Talk Page 18:43, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Madara's Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan icon
I don't intent to visit the wiki via my mobile because of the horrible network connections that I have there, but I checked your thread about your issue. Just try what Sajuuk said to clear your caches in your mobile. If it doesn't work, try to update either your browser or your mobile software. These are the solutions that in my mind. — Shakhmoot  (Talk) 04:32, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

edits
The Blaze Release discussion appears (?) to be ongoing. Please do not add it to articles until the discussion is resolved. ~SnapperTo 22:58, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Sage Mode
I learned Japanese in school, but I lacked the capabilities to actually speak/write it. But I did learn it. Orochimaru learned how to use Sage Mode, but lacked a body to actually do it, so he went ahead and developed his cursed seals as a substitute. Do note that Orochimaru's cursed seal feeds off the owners chakra and feeds them Orochimaru's senjutsu chakra.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 10:11, December 15, 2014 (UTC)

RE: Infobox content
Use Contact/bug--~Ultimate Supreme  11:36, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Re: Outer Path
"SnapperTwo"

- That's a passive quality inherent to the eye itself. Like the Sharingan's analytical abilities. We're talking about abilities for which the eye is merely a prerequisite, and those abilities are not necessarily available to users by default; see Sasuke's work to unlock his eyes' powers. The wiki only lists jutsu which characters have used and/or have been directly indicated to be able to use. That shouldn't change. Otherwise we get into territory where, for example, we list every Konoha jutsu for the Third Hokage because he's the "Professor". Or where Obito gets Susanoo. Or Hashirama gets whichever miscellaneous wood jutsu Yamato uses.

This. Your argument is that it's Madara's eyes, therefore he should be a user. We don't list Hashirama as a user of every little wood technique Yamato, Zetsu, or others with his cells use do we? We don't list Obito as a user of Susanoo either. And we certainly won't stuff Hiruzen's infobox with all Konoha jutsu because Hiruzen is the "Professor." We don't list Hagoromo as a user of Limbo, and we don't list Kaguya as a user of every Rinnegan or Sharingan technique just because she has the Rinne Sharingan. She also isn't a user of Shikotsumyaku just because it is derived from her ability to use All-Killing Ash Bones. We don't list Hamura as a user of every Byakugan technique. We also don't list Minato as a user of every derived Rasengan technique just because he was the creator of it. Just because one can use the parent technique, does not mean we should list him/her as the user of all the derived techniques. The wiki only lists jutsu which characters have used and/or have been directly indicated to be able to use. The bed we made. The "consistency" we've kept on this wiki for years. If we decide to abide by your idea, then we would have to apply the same "logic" to all the examples mentioned and more to fulfill the "consistency" mantra. We don't necessarily follow a fan's "logic," we follow what Kishi provides us. Yes, Madara can use the Six Paths Technique, and the basic 7 Paths, but let's not delve too far into it when we list Madara as a user of every little derived technique because it was "his eyes." If we do so, we ignore the possibility of scenarios such as this: What if Yamato used Hashirama's cells to come up with a minor wood technique Hashirama never thought of in his lifetime? Should we automatically list Hashirama as a user of that technique? What if some in the Kaguya clan couldn't use All-Killing Ash Bones because their bodies couldn't handle such power and they came up with Shikotsumyaku as an incomplete/derived version after Kaguya's sealing? Yet Kaguya isn't a user of Shikotsumyaku by the databook. What if Madara used the Rinnegan to come up with a technique for his own convenience, should we list Hagoromo as a user of that technique because Hagoromo is the original user of the dual Rinnegan? Not necessarily. Again, just because one can use the parent technique, does not mean we should list him/her as the user of all the derived techniques. Otherwise, we would apply that "logic" of giving every derived technique to a user of the parent technique to everyone, which would just be unnecessary. We follow what is stated or implied, not necessarily what is "logical" all the time. Many can use the parent technique without being shown to use the derived one. Others, like the Kaguya clan and Karin, use derived techniques because they are incapable of using the parent techniques. However, Kushina isn't a user of the derived technique because maybe Karin is the original user of it and came up with it on her own. No matter how illogical it may seem, we follow what characters are stated, indicated, or implied to use. Hope you understand.  ~•WS7125 [Mod] 22:41, January 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * "This is not the only thing the article states"

- It states that the Outer Path grants the user access to Rinne Tensei.


 * The article already specifies that the Outer Path, in its entirety, is only available to users who are alive, which is likely the reason why Madara isn't listed. He was an Edo Tensei. Nothing needs to be changed.  ~•WS7125 [Mod]WindStar7125 Task.svgWindStar7125's Task.svg 00:00, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Explanation on Blaze-Fire
I do not want that thread to devolve into another Blaze-Fire debate, so I will take this to your talkpage:

"Minamoto15"

- Windstar mentioned the Blaze Release thing for example....when Blaze Release was first incorporated here, was it something the wiki just assumed was a different nature? According to Seelentau, the databook refutes this entirely, yet the manga depicts it as a different nature from Katon (they even operate differently). To me, this encompasses is the biggest issue and it's only one example. If you ask me, there should've been a discussion about how we should treat the DB and anime information, so we can at the very least be consistent with it.

You misunderstand the issue with Blaze. Black flames were never stated to be different than fire on any platform. It was never called a different chakra nature. We assumed it was for so long, that it was constituted and popularly assumed as fact from the manga, when it did not originate from the manga, it was our own assumption. Both the second databook and fourth databook both stated that black flames are fire release (2nd db - Amaterasu is fire release. 4th db - Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi is fire release). We ignored the 2nd databook and treated Amaterasu and Blaze Release as different from Fire Release, when that was not the case, we just made assumptions on that. So none of that came from the manga (The previous "chapter 464" notion was an over-evaluation on my part, so that is moot). -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 21:14, February 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * "Minamoto15"

- I don't see any harm in using common sense here, especially when every other nature around had a unique effect (advanced or basic)


 * There are no such thing as "advanced" natures. That is a fanmade term for the wiki in order to separate Lava, Wood, Ice etc. from the five elements. All of them are called "nature transformations" whether they be the five elements or combinations of them. "Advanced" natures are just another assumption we used on this wiki for so long.


 * "Minamoto15"

- hell Sasuke even had a different name for it, but it gets ignored because the databook states otherwise hence why I asked if Blaze Release was something the wiki just came up with.


 * Yes, I am aware that it had a different name, but the difference between Blaze Release and natures such as Lava, Wood, Ice, etc were all called and confirmed to be nature transformations made by two seperate elements. Blaze was never called a nature transformation, other than Fire, in both the manga and the databook. Blaze was always referred to as flames and nothing else.


 * "Minamoto15"

- but to omit it completely and just merge it with the standard Katon article isn't the way to go in my humble opinion, for reasons I stated earlier, it doesn't work the same way as ordinary Katon.


 * We never omitted it. As I said earlier, Blaze Release and Amaterasu were always referred to as "black flames," even by the manga. Fire Release is the only nature that produces flames. The manga never specified that Blaze was anything else but Fire, and neither did the databook. Hence, Blaze being made up of fire and nothing else. Again, there are no such thing as "advanced natures" and Blaze was always referred to as "flames" by the manga and "fire" by the databook.


 * -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 21:58, February 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, Blaze Release is a Kekkei Genkai because it is a dōjutsu. A "Kekkei Genkai Fire Release" more or less, but only because it is a dōjutsu. Blaze Release = black flames. Essentially, Blaze Release/Black flames to Fire Release is like Black Lightning to Lightning Release: It is just a name and only a name, with no change in nature, just changes in color, effect and power.
 * -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 00:47, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Anything more you want me to explain or...? -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 01:26, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Regarding Databook vs. Manga
That's how we should handle things. We're Narutopedia, we note everything Kishi says, even the mistakes. It's not "Databook vs. Manga," it's "Databook, Manga, and whatever Kishi says" -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 20:44, February 14, 2015 (UTC)

Just like WindStar says. Do not listen to ANY other users who would try and tell you otherwise. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:16, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Re:Orochimaru Shadow Clones
In his fight with Anko, chapter 50 page 13. When did he use it in anime?--LeafShinobi (talk) 18:32, February 22, 2015 (UTC)

Re:Sakura's Novel Debut
Kakashi Hiden. And I already did, someone must've removed it.--Omojuze (talk) 19:18, April 27, 2015 (UTC)

re: Medical Ninjutsu & Yang Release
The reason why that is not being considered is because of the what-if clause. Due to all of the possible "what-if" theories out there, and the possible contradictions to said speculation, it was decided that it was best not to pick one that doesn't have more evidence than another, and maintain what is stated, no matter how likely the theory was to be true. Now, to address what you've messaged me:

"Yamato actually confirmed in the manga, during the beginning stages Naruto's chakra nature training, that genjutsu, medical ninjutsu, as well as the hiden techniques of the Nara & Akimichi clans all fall under Yin Release or Yang Release." You mean chapter 316? Okay, I'm going to type the relevant conversation in that chapter about Yin and Yang Release from the manga website I'm looking at right now. Naruto: ... Kakashi: I guess I should start explaining the training... ''Naruto: Then how about Shikamaru's "Kagemane" and Chouji's "Baika no Jutsu" Kakashi: ... Naruto: And how about Medical ninjutsu and genjutsu? ''Kakashi: Hmm, it'll take a long time to explain those. And if I explain it all at once, it'll confuse you so... Yamato: Why don't you tell him about the "quality control" of "Yin" and "Yang" another time?... So where was it stated from that conversation that the Nara and Akimichi's techniques are either Yin or Yang? In fact, that was more of an implication. Again, one can interpret that in many different ways.

"We also have confirmation on the hiden techniques mentioned above fall under one of these natures too (Expansion-Yang, Shadow Possession-Yin)." Again, see above.

"Now, this wiki has no problem making well-educated 'guesses' on the components that make up Explosion Release and/or Magnet Release though the latter has more legitimate backing all things considered." Trust me, the picking and choosing of what should be presented as fact here and the lack of consistency annoys me as well, which is why I try (emphasis on try) to stay out of certain discussions these days to avoid showing visible frustration and clear my head to work on the wiki and moderate. But wikis are never 100% consistent. Certain things will have to be ignored and contradicted at some point, if it means improving the wiki.

As for the Magnet and Explosion Release stories, to quote a translator you and I both know: There's no other possibility. This is how it was explained to me: Magnet and Explosion Release were confirmed to be nature transformations, unlike Blaze. They are not elements, so they are not composed of only one nature. There were both confirmed to be Kekkei Genkai, so by chapter 316, or the same chapter I just referenced, they are composed of exactly two natures.

Like I said, Magnet Release was called a nature transformation and a Kekkei Genkai, so it is indeed made of two natures. Rasa's elements were Wind, Earth, Water and Yin. Neither Yin nor Yang have ever combined with others elements to create a new KKG nature, other than Yin-Yang Release, so Yin is not an option. Here are the other possible combinations, based on Rasa's elements:

Wind+Water=Ice - Not an option. Water+Earth=Wood - Neither is this. So that leaves Wind+Earth, based on Rasa's elements, him possessing Magnet Release, and Magnet being confirmed to be composed of two natures.

Because "there's no other possibility." It dodges the what-if clause, due to the logical conclusion being the only option in this case that was supported from what was stated. Yes, Magnet Release was indeed a fustercluck, but what can we do?

Now to Explosion Release: it is indeed made of two natures as well. Deidara's explosive bombs are made of Earth. So Explosion is made of Earth, too. That leaves one element left for Earth to compound itself with to create Explosion Release, since Kekkei Genkai are confirmed to be composed of two natures.

However, Wind is taken (Magnet), Fire is taken (Lava) and Water is taken (Wood). That leaves Lightning as the only option, not to mention that Sasuke's Chidori was able to diffuse Deidara's Earth bombs, leading to the conclusion that Explosion is composed of Lightning and Earth, and once again dodging the what-if clause, because "there's no other possibility."

Can't say I like it, but I speak from experience, so trust me on this: Over time, you'll begin to feel or realize that your voice means very little when other users have their minds set on doing something and won't listen to anything else. In some cases, that's meant dodging the completion of discussion altogether and just making decisions without an adequate consensus. I know, it's frustrating. Hence why I abstain from some (though not all) discussions. But's that's just me, I'm not suggesting you do the same.

"So my question to you is, why again can't we link medical ninjustu to Yang Release? It's clear that it falls under one of Yin or Yang and the latter is the only one that makes sense. Plus, DB4 has Rin, Tsunade, Ino, Sakura, and Karin all as Yang Release users. How much more proof is needed?" Here's a contradiction to that sentiment: we have two healing techniques with Yin in their names. Not to mention that Naruto's healing abilities are Yin-Yang Release, not Yang Release.

That sentiment, though it seems to make sense due to Yang's definition of "breathing life into form," doesn't escape the what-if clause. It's just another possibility among other ones. For example, due to the two techniques I just linked you to and Naruto's abilities, one could ask "What if medical ninjutsu is Yin Release and Yang Release?" or "What if it's just Yin Release based on those two names?" in the same breath of asking "What if healing abilities are Yang Release?" From these questions, the natures medical ninjutsu are composed of are up in the air.

There are many possible theories such as those I just came up with, and many possible contradictions to them. So like I began, it was decided it was best not to choose a theory that doesn't have more proof than another and stick to what is stated and confirmed. Or in some cases, make logical conclusions based on what is stated and confirmed, though not explicitly stated or confirmed.

Again, I'm not saying I condone the logical picking and choosing, nor am I trying to give off the impression that I vehemently disagree with you, but hey, no wiki's perfect. Sometimes there's consistency, other times, it's a case-by-case scenario. You begin to get tired of everything. But it is what it is. 22:05, April 30, 2015 (UTC)
 * And by the light, sorry for these long responses. As you can see, I'm not that concise. :D 22:10, April 30, 2015 (UTC)