Talk:Lava Release

has this been confirmed
i am wondering if this lava release has been confirmed by the databook, mainly because i have not had the chance to look at a english version
 * Apparently third databook confirmed it. Leafninja is using Lava release too, so I assume it's true. Jacce 10:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #14579
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #14579 on 2008-10-21 09:26:11 UTC

''There needs to be a citation because this fact is never stated in the manga. ''

About Hiruzen SArutobi
I think he can use lava release.


 * He can't. Lava Release is an advanced element created by merging Earth Release and Fire Release. Creating an advanced element is only possible with a kekkei genkai, or in this case a Tailed Beast. The Third Hokage had neither.
 * What he did was combine an Earth Release technique with a Fire Release technique in the same way Yamato and Naruto combined Water Release: Tearing Torrent and Wind Release: Rasengan to create the Typhoon Water Vortex Technique. There is no Lava Release involved. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:31, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

He can't use Lava release. It was especially made by a tailed beast. It is also a form of elemental recomposition, not only a tailed beast. I haven't seen Hiruzen use wood release either, so that counters this idea.

Name Change
I just read the viz translated version and it said instead of Yoton or Lava it said Corrosion. Should we change it to that? Saimaroimaru (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I found it in the english released manga, lets see manga vol. 40 or 39 I think. Saimaroimaru (talk) 21:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Discussion at Talk:Rōshi. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Apr 3, 2009 @ 22:06 (UTC)

Status
Should it be pointed out that it is the only nature recomposition that doesn't steem from a kekkei genkai? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:32, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That depends, do you have any reason to think it isn't considered a kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 16:43, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not. It's not something that can be inherited, as far as we know. Roshi can use it solely because he's the host of the Four-Tails. It's not like Haku's Ice Release that he inherited from his mother, or the Wood Release which was put in Yamato's genetic code. No idea if this could work like Gaara's sand though, if Roshi had been resurrected after the Four-Tails being extracted, we don't know if he'd keep it, like Gaara kept his sand, though it's likely. Even then, it's not something he inherited from someone else. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai? --ShounenSuki (talk 00:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Using the logic they lack the blood, and the lineage to have a bloodline limit, then yes, Tailed Beasts can't have kekkei genkai's. Regardless is regardless, I don't see this as a Kekkei Genkai, and merely see it as a special ability of a demon. Nature Transformation sure, but no kekkei genkai.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So, should it go to the page? We already have a trivia for the lightning nature, about it being the only one not known to be used to create a new nature. We could also mention at water and earth that they're the most used in elemental recompositions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Saying Tailed Beasts lack blood or lineage is rather speculative, in my opinion. I take it you're basing that on the fact they're said to exist out of chakra, but that doesn't mean they don't have blood or organs. Using your logic, Tailed Beasts should be intangible masses of energy, as that is what chakra is. However, the Three-tails teaches us that Tailed Beasts are tangible and Naruto's higher transformations tell us that they have bones and muscles. They likely have blood as well, and possibly the ability to procreate if they could find a suitable mate. However, the lack of a lineage shouldn't really matter. The First Hokage didn't pass his Mokuton on to his descendants, yet the Mokuton is considered a kekkei genkai. There is nothing that suggests we shouldn't consider Yōton a kekkei genkai. Even taking away all other things, it was literally stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a kekkei genkai. That is what the Four-Tails does, ergo he has a kekkei genkai. Rōshi, of course, doesn't have this kekkei genkai (although it could be that he would have kept the Yōton if he had somehow survived the extraction). This doesn't mean the yōton he uses isn't considered a kekkei genkai, though. Kakashi doesn't have a kekkei genkai, but uses the kekkei genkai of someone else, yet his sharingan-related abilities are considered kekkei genkai-related. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * True. I used the logic that they lack blood solely because I haven't seen blood. Anywho. We don't know if it is a Kekkei Genkai, but we do know it is a Advanced Nature Transformation. My way we simply wouldn't add reference to kekkei genkai's to the article simply because we don't know if it's one or not. But thats just me.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It was stated that mixing two chakra natures to form a new one is a type of kekkei genkai. If kekkei genkai is by definition mixing chakra natures, then doujutsu would be advanced natures as well. IMO advanced natures and kekkei genkai, while usually related, are by no means the same thing. At the very least, I see no trouble adding something like "it's the only advanced nature known not to stem explicitly from kekkei genkai". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In chapter 316, Kakashi says . In other words, the ability to create an advanced nature like Mokuton or Yōton is called a kekkei genkai. Not all kekkei genkai are advanced natures, of course, but this quote does imply that all advanced natures are kekkei genkai. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:41, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * And to add to it, a Kekkai Genkai, doesn't necessarly have to be from family lineage...look at the 1st Hokage's Wood Release, and 3 Kazekage's Iron Sand...It wasn't passed down genetically...More like they had the skill and requirments to achieve it...--AlienGamer--Talk-- 03:58, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that argument for Mokuton, but we can't say Iron Sand can't be passed down, there's no info on whether Sandaime Kazekage had children. I still see no problem in saying Lava Release is the only advanced nature so far not to have been explicitly called a kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:08, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Tailed Beasts cant have Kekkai Genkai because as far as we no they cant reproduce so it cant be a Bloodline Limit Narutosagemaster (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * But look it at it this way. they always say the jinchuuriki of the four tails can use yoton but they simply could be saying that a jinchuuriki has a certain ability outside its bijuu. they have never significantly stated that the yoton comes the yonbi


 * They have, it's explicitly said in the third data book. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Its not quite confirmed since it says that by borrowing 4 tails power he learned the lava release. It gives away a number of possiblities like: helping him control it, training him, etc. but never states that he got the lava release from the monkey and let me remind that japanese to english translations are never 100% percent accurate


 * It's been said that the Yonbi itself spits lava, I believe in the art book in which it was shown its species. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Been waiting all this time, to make you see this. Sometime before I said that I was related to the plot producers clarifying that in the summit it would be revealed that Yoton was a kekkei genkai. although it did surprise that mizukage was the one using it. but told you it would come

What are you talking about? Weren't you that one person who tried to 'prove' his statements with an interview you never showed us? --ShounenSuki (talk 22:36, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Is corrosion style really lava???
Its called corrosion style in the anime, i know. Yet on here, everything also calls it Lava style. Given the mizukage uses the same style, and hers looks like acid, and acid could be called corrosion, is it not possible that the "Corrosion Style" of roshi is actually acid, and was just mistakenly called "lava" at some point?
 * The databook says this about yōton:
 * "The special ninjutsu manipulated by Rōshi, the jinchūriki of the Four-Tails. By using this technique that combines Fire Release and Earth Release, "lava" is produced that can completely melt all things [it touches]."
 * there is no doubt that this element is lava. --ShounenSuki (talk 11:07, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then why is the Kage of the water-themed village using it, and not, say, the Tsuchikage, from the same village as Roshi, the only other known user? Wasn't there some distinction between two kinds of Youton that was made clear when the spoilers for Chapter 465 came out? Something about two slightly different fire and water-related kanji for "you" or something? I'm not very good with Japanese, but I thought that the version Roshi used as a jinchuriki was slightly different because it's lava-related, and the Mizukage's version is more of an acid-based jutsu.


 * Well, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I find it highly unlikely that the Mizukage would be using a jutsu that's fire and earth-related. Obviously, characters like Kakashi have easily proven that you don't have to have jutsus or a chakra element that matches up to your home village or land, but still... you'd think the Mizukage, at least, would stick with water or at least water-like - in other words, acid - jutsus. Sure, I'm probably wrong on this one, but still, something's just weird about it if she's really using a Lava Release. I suppose all I can do to have peace of mind is wait to see the colored version in the anime, and see for myself whether it's actually lava or not. Teamrocketspy621 (talk) 19:49, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * What the mizukage's jutsu does has the same effect as the description for lava release in the databook "can completely melt away all things. I know the article now says that they are 2 seperate jutsus, and blames it on the grammer, but i really doubt a proffessional author would make two jutsu categories with no way to differentiate between the two other than just simply somehow magically knowing.  p.s. - the "water kage shouldn't use non-water based jutsu" argument isnt really valid.  4 of 5 hokages were never seen using any fire jutsu

corrosion style is just the name given by Viz's subbing...it doesnt mean much..its just like saying wind release: rasengan is wind stlye: rasengan cuz in Viz's sub it was writtten Wind Style: Rasengan--Moiz1224 (talk) 23:30, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

mizukage
i think its ridiculous to have a solvent release. it was clearly stated by chojuro that the current mizukage had a kekkei genkai of yoton which is lava release.

Jinchurikki Abilitys+Several Generations=Bloodlines.
I have a theory (that does have proof). When someone has a demon sealed in them they gain an ability( Narutos high stamina, Garras sand)so whats to stop that from being passed down to other generation. Like what if the first yonbi jinchurikki had a kid and some generations later the 5th mizukage had that bloodline. It was shown that garra has his sand manipulation AFTER Shukaku was exctracted from his body. and the Rikudo Sennin(the 1st Jinchurikki) gave his powers(or some amount) to the brothers and Madara and Harishima( the desendents of the two) developed there own bloodlines.( i know its seems faulty and speculative but please just think about it)--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 21:42, November 8, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan
 * Nothing suggests the Fifth Mizukage is a decedent of a Four Tails jinchuuriki, or that the Four Tails had one other than Roshi. Gaara retained his sand abilities, but just as nothing suggests something keep him from passing it on to his decedents, nothing suggests that it can be done. The powers the Sage of the Six Paths passed to his sons was never even implied to be derived from the Ten Tails, if anything, it's more likely it wasn't, because he split that power before dying. Also, Madara wasn't the first to have a Sharigan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Question...
Looking up the different radicals for "Yō", meaning to melt...

I discovered that Roshi's version, 熔, with the fire radical, can also mean, to smelt, or to fuse.

Mei's version, 溶, with the water radical, can also mean, to dissolve.

Sorry if I'm beating on a dead horse at this point. It's just that I think that this might be the crucial difference.

Roshi's "Yōton" is said to have been volcano-hot and could easily be used to melt down metals, if he ever wanted to be a blacksmith.

Mei's "Yōton" is seen to have hardened almost instantly... wait. Not exactly a display of dissolution, the one time she's been seen using it. --Reikson (talk) 00:21, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lava and Corrosion?
I'd Just Like to say that in the first time Mei shows her Yoton,in Viz, Chojuro calls it Lava style. So does that mean, for Viz's translation, we put Corrosion/Lava style?--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 07:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan


 * I think the version of Yōton used by Mei, which is written with the radical for water in the first kanji (溶遁), should be translated to something like Dissolve Release. The Yō in Yōton, written with the water radical (溶), can be read as lava, but translates more literally to solution/soluble/dissolve, which suggests to me that this shouldn't be read as Lava. Anyway, as we've seen when she used her jutsu, the liquid produced by her Yōton dissolves/corrodes stuff.


 * Even though Kishimoto has introduced Yōton thrice in the series, it has been written with two different kanji, 熔 and 溶, which to me means that they're only pronounced the same, but are different jutsu. Since Kishi is writing for Japanese-reading and -speaking readers, he doesn't have to worry about there being any confusion for them, so he doesn't have to clarify.


 * I'm also aware that the databook lists Yōton with both 熔 and 溶, and mentions the Yonbi as well, but it doesn't address the significance of using different kanji. My conlusion is that the 溶 Yōton used by Mei is a Doton-Suiton combination, and the 熔 Yōton  used by the Yonbi and Kurotsuchi, is a Doton-Katon combination, thus the respective radicals.


 * Also, the Yonbi's jutsu is clearly Lava Release, since it produces actual molten rock, but Kurotsuchi's jutsu creates a caustic substance (quicklime), and as I said before 熔 Yōton translates to molten/melt, so maybe hers is something like Molten/Corrosive Release.--Junaid-Sennin (talk) 14:13, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Speculations aside, we know all that already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Layout
There is still a possibility that 熔遁 and 溶遁 are different? Maybe we could have it like the Ice Release page for now, with two different sections for two possibily different abilities with the same name and similar effect. --GoDai (talk) 03:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a remote possibility, but Kishimoto-sensei has been rather inconsistent with the kanji he used for this technique, making it rather unlikely. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:31, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Was either element referred to as controlling lava (熔岩; 溶岩, Yōgan) exactly? Or were the names and effects just implying lava? --GoDai (talk) 23:52, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Four-Tails' Lava Release was clearly explained as manipulating . I don't believe it was literally stated of the Mizukage, but since the name and effects are the same, it is a safe assumption. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:15, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess so, but I think it should be noted 熔 means "melt; smelt; fuse; mold" while 溶 means "melt; dissolve; overflow" although in Japanese, both are allowed for "溶岩, Lava".
 * Just a question, on the original source of the Four-Tails' Yōton, were both words 熔遁 (Yōton) and 溶岩 (Yōgan) used on the same page? I still think the difference in kanji should be noted to a greater extent on the page, such as the possibility of the two not being the same. --GoDai (talk) 22:52, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

I made a list of what words were used where: With the way they are used, it is highly doubtful they were meant to indicate a difference in the Four-Tails' and the Mizukage's Yōton. I'd say it's worth a trivia point, at most. However, unless Kishimoto-sensei specifically notes there's a difference between the two, I'd say we shouldn't draw unnecessary attention to it. It might confuse people and misinform them. --ShounenSuki (talk 13:35, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Four-Tails' Yōton:
 * Chapter 353: 熔遁
 * Third Databook, Rōshi article: 溶遁, 溶岩
 * Third Databook, glossary: 熔遁, 溶岩
 * Second Artbook: 溶岩
 * Mizukage's Yōton:
 * Chapter 465: 溶遁
 * Chapter 466: 溶遁
 * Second Fanbook: 溶遁

So the Third Databook's article on him had the 溶. But isn't it strange how the 熔 is used in the glossary? Other than that, I guess we'll just have to wait to see the connection. It also could mean Masashi Kishimoto changed his mind and decided to start using the 溶 kanji instead, as I guess it is a little more common, and used more often in "lava" in Japanese. --GoDai (talk) 02:01, May 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * 溶岩 literally translates to lava, since it has 'molten' (溶) and 'rock' (岩), molten rock, which is lava. However, only in the 3rd databooks article is Rōshi's Yōton written as 溶遁, everywhere else its written with 熔遁. The difference being that 溶 is written with the water radical, and 熔 has the fire radical. Molten rock, i.e. Lava, is a combination of Doton and Katon, hence the kanji with the fire radical, so I think Rōshi's jutsu should actually have the fire radical kanji, and the other one with the water radical in Rōshi's article was probably a mistake, and refers to the Mizukage's jutsu, which is a acidic solvent and looks like a combination of Doton and Suiton, suiton because it's liquid.--Junaid-Sennin (talk) 14:24, February 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * And your point is? We already know about everything you said. Doton and Suiton make Mokuton. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Missing Info.
I noticed that Roshi is missing from the known users section and his jutsu, Lava_Release: Lava Geyser, isn't on the jutsu page even though its the image example for the article. Also the article lists the Four Tailed Monkey as a user but it isn't on the users page either.Umishiru (talk) 15:38, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * he isn't missing his name is listed. Maybe you need to empty your cache--Cerez365 (talk) 15:49, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Rōshi is mentioned, but due to how the page is set up, he'll never appear under the user list, nor will his jutsu. With the infobox, we're listing Lava Release as kekkei genkai. Normally, that wouldn't mean a thing, but since Rōshi's Lava Release isn't derived from kekkei genkai, he's not listed in the infobox. He's still mentioned in the article though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:19, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which is a shortcoming that should be fixed. Like with a chakra nature infobox. ~SnapperTo 19:57, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Is it another bug?
I see Roshi and the other users listed in the jutsu section. I assume its a info box bug?Umishiru (talk) 23:05, February 22, 2011 (UTC)

Just wondering...
But where and when did they mentioned it to be called Corrosion Style, and which person uses this name? Gentle Moonlight (talk) 23:18, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * When Lava Release is first mentioned. When Kisame talks to Itachi about how the battle against the Four-Tails went. The viz translation in the manga was Corrosion Style. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Difference between Mei's and Yonbi's
Well, I dont know if it counts or not, but there is one difference between the use of Lava by Mei and Four Tails. Mei and Roushi makes a lava with the color of red and yellow, and when the time will come, Kurotsuchi will most likely also make a red-yellow lava. But Four Tails, when briefly showen in the anime and in the image here on its page, makes a sort of cyan-dark blue lava. It would support that Four Tails' Lava Release is different than that used by the "normal" humans with kekkei genkai. But than, if Four Tails' lava is cyan, why when the battle between Kisame and Roushi ended, there was a red-yellow lava (Lava Release: Lava Geyser)? I dont know if the cyan lava is exclusive only to Four Tails or also to Roushi, who can use both red and cyan lava, I dont know.

Should it be noted that Four Tails produces a different-colored lava than humans? VolteMetalic (talk) 18:38, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the manga never showed any colour other than the greenish-blue lava used by the Yonbi. Seeing how Rōshi can use Lava only thanks to Yonbi, his lava should also be greenish-blue. The colour the anime gave it is most likely a mistake. Using the anime colours to draw conclusions about the differences between the Lava Releases, if there even are any, is really not a good idea. —ShounenSuki (talk 18:52, May 24, 2011 (UTC)