Talk:Yasaka Magatama

Tool?
I know it was given as a technique an all but given it's background and stuff should it be considered a tool as well O.o--Cerez365™ 13:16, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was called a jutsu, so we can't make assumptions.--Deva 27 13:19, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * He said Ninjutsu, yes. But I'd say it is a weapon, too. Judging from the background and how the other two are tools, too. Seelentau 愛議 18:20, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we list this as a Ninjutsu then the Totsuka blade and the Yata Mirror have to be too. Besides since the last item was the Yakasa Magatama it makes more sense to list as tool to complete the set. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:11, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * This was called a ninjutsu, the others were called items. It looks to me like Susanoo creates the Yasaka no Magatama, so its more likely its a ninjutsu.
 * Were was this stated as a ninjutsu? the only was that Itachi called it's name which hardly qualifies. Given the other weapons and how they all come from Susanoo and part of a matching set, it's silly to list this as a ninjutsu while the other 2 are as tools. Either list all as ninjutsu or all as tools. Also sign your post Darksusanoo (talk) 23:36, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Itachi did say they'd use their strongest long range techniques. Although I still think it might be a tool, it can remain as is until we get more information.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:44, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a ninjutsu, the others are tools, the name of the technique and it's influence has no barring on whether something is a tool or ninjutsu.--¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 23:46, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi suggests that they should all use their strongest long-range Ninjutsu. Of course that implies this is a Ninjutsu. But given that the other two are tools, I'd say this is a tool, too. In the end, we should just wait. Seelentau 愛議 23:53, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe we should add Yasaka no Magatama to the tool section together with the Sword of Totsuka and Yata's Mirror because its a weapon/tool used by Susanoo a jutsu used by Itachi in Mangekyou Sharingan. SLAYER13PH (talk) 08:11, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi does say that they should use their strongest long-range ninjutsu, however his strongest one, which he showed, might require the use of one of the legendary tools. --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 13:26, August 18, 2011 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

So far all Susanoo-related attacks have been made by weapons: the Totsuka blade, the Yata Mirror, the crossbow from Sasuke's version...this is basicaly Itachi's version of long range...since all Susanoo's items were classified as tools it doesn't make sense to state this as a ninjutsu since it derives from Susanoo like every other item. Darksusanoo (talk) 19:35, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Any more ideas/opinions/objections to change this into a tool? Darksusanoo (talk) 21:07, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * But we really can't change it until it's actually confirmed as a tool especially with the way it's used. I'm not entirely sure why I brought this up in the first place any more but I'm against it since it's us making an assumption because of the techniques influence.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:16, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * But in the same way we're assuming this is a ninjutsu without solid proof...and so far all of Susanoo's attacks have been weapon/tool-based ones. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:25, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

All of the Susanoo have used tools...the Totsuka blade and Yata mirror for Itachi's and the regular blade, and crossbow for Sasuke's. It's ilogical to list this one as a ninjutsu when Susanoo only used weapons so far...also there is no proof other than Itachi's Statement to use the most powerfull long range techniques...and as far as it's known tools can also fall in to this category. 2.80.179.90 (talk) 22:43, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

I would like to ask why is this specific item being treated differently from the other ones? All the other Susanoo items were treated as tools. And Itachi's statement is ambiguous at best and not revealing at all. Any more opinions? Darksusanoo (talk) 06:20, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I agree...why is this specific item being treated differently? Like the other editors said all other Susanoo itens are treated as tools and the only "proof" against it is a very ambiguous statement by Itachi. Why is not changed to a tool yet? 2.80.178.15 (talk) 16:24, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Just because everything else is a tool doesn't mean that this is as well and we can't just bunch things in together. This is not one of those things that we can just rush and do so we should at least wait for a raw and a translation from Shounensuki. Because regardless of whether or not the statement was "ambiguous" to you, it was still said so we present the data as given to us.--Cerez365™ 16:30, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

As I said before, there's nothing that says that this is a tool. On the other hand, Itachi said that they should use their strongest Ninjutsu and used this afterwards. The only argument for it being a tool is that the other two are also tools. But there's no reason for Kishi to make this a tool, too. Seelentau 愛議 16:34, August 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't classify this as a tool yet. Not only isn't there any real indication that it is a tool (although tools are also classified as ninjutsu, so that argument is moot), it was also named in a decidedly different style than the Totsuga Sword and the Yata Mirror, which might indicate it's not a tool like them. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:55, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

I agree to darksusanoo we must treat it as a tool. SLAYER13PH (talk) 06:57, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Come on guys send it to itachi's tools section its part of susanoo's tools. itachi didn't wave hand seals for that or use it physically. its susanoo who throw it.SLAYER13PH (talk) 07:58, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi said that they should use their strongest long range techniques, Itachi used this, ergo this is a technique. I'm not saying it's impossible for this to be a tool, but I find it extremely more likely to be a technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:25, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Hahaha! LOL like i said before even madara's susanoo can wave hand seal to have a meteorite ninjutsu falling from heaven. i therefore conclude it must be a tool of susanoo not a jutsu of itachi. we should label it as a tool of itachi's infobox. who's with me?SLAYER13PH (talk) 03:27, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

@SLAYER13PH It is not a tool. I don't even know why that was questioned. Itachi said it was his strongest long-range technique. Not to mention, a tool's primary means of usage isn't for it to be a projectile. Skitts (talk) 03:29, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

@Skitts i agree my friend it is a long-range technique but a technique does not mean to be a jutsu. itachi didn't wave hand seal or come from him physically. his susanoo throw it like it wield the yata's mirror and sword of totsuka. as seen on madara's susanoo it can wave signs as it wishes to help madara have a meteorite jutsu coming from heaven, a tool primary means usage it can be offensive or defensive even if it is thrown like a shuriken (which is also included with the tools section.) a kunai, flash bombs or a senbon etc.. i think kishi wants to complete the 3 japanese imperial regala of japan as a tool for susanoo. the sword of totsuka which is a variant of kusanagi no tsurugi, yata's mirror (yata no kagami) and yasaka magatama yasakani no magatama. as he complete the 3 japanese ancient myth religion tsukiyomi,amaterasu and susanoo as a mangekyo sharingan 3 powerful techniques. just it is how i analyze. Its a tool. SLAYER13PH (talk) 06:39, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Chapter called it a technique, we list it as technique until something equally canon or more says it's not. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:40, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Earrings
Could it be the magatama earrings that Susanoo wears? Yatanogarasu 07:37, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was generated between it's right hand though it didn't take them off.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:29, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Naming consistency
The articles on item/technique which come from the Imperial Regalia are currently named with what I perceive as a slight inconsistency. All three follow the format "something no thing" in the original Japanese. We currently list them as "Sword of Totsuka", "Yata Mirror" and "Yasaka no Magatama". I know there's a historical reason for there being no written indication of the "no" in the mirror, though it's still said with it in the middle. To make them all follow the same format, I think that they should be named either "Sword of Totsuka"/"Mirror of Yata"/"Magatama of Yasaka" or "Totsuka('s) Sword"/"Yata('s) Mirror"/"Yasaka('s) Magatama", unless a compelling reason not to is provided, of course. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:52, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd have no problem with this. I'm in favour of the possessive names though, "Mirror of Yata" sounds odd.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:00, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree.--Deva 27 00:42, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

The latter example seems best. Skitts (talk) 06:40, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * の isn't simply a possessive particle in Japanese. it can also serve as a kind of modifier particle, changing the word in front of it into a kind of adjective. For example, the Japanese word for an English teacher is . In fact, this behaviour of the possessive is also found in English: an English teacher can also be said to be a 'teacher of English'.
 * In this case, the use of の is because of this function:
 * The Kusanagi no Tsurugi is a 'grass-cutting word';
 * The Totsuga no Tsurugi is a 'ten-fist[-long] sword';
 * The Yata no Kagami is an 'eight-hand-span[-wide] mirror';
 * Et cetera, et cetera. Naming them something like 'Kusanagi's Sword' is plain wrong, as it implies that 'Kusanagi' is an actual person or place. Naming them along the lines of 'Sword of Kusanagi' or 'Kusanagi Sword' would be a lot better, and I personally prefer the latter, myself. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:53, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

Does that mean that Yata Mirror is also correct, and that this article could be moved to Yasaka Magatama? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:20, August 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * In my opinion? Yes and yes. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:46, August 21, 2011 (UTC)

May be a little late now, but how about "Yasaka Curved Jewel"? The "Curved Jewel" being "Magatama" translation. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:37, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * I personally prefer the term 'magatama', but there's nothing really bad about using 'curved jewel', I guess. It depends on what the others want. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:36, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Then wouldn't it be "Yata Kagami", "Totsuka Tsurugi" and "Kusanagi Tsurugi", just taking out the "no" in all of them? Of course, consistency is one thing, but how it sounds is another. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 21:13, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * There are actually good translations for kagami and tsurugi. A magatama is a specific type of jewel that is generally referred to as such, even in English. 'Curved jewel' might be a direct translation of the term, but it isn't really what it's called in English. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:06, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Makes sense, I guess. But I guess just taking out the "no" from this technique doesn't really count as "translating" it into English. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 05:55, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why wouldn't that count? —ShounenSuki (talk 06:34, September 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Eight Slopes Magatama?Umishiru (talk) 06:37, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia partial removal.
I think the reference to Itachis looking like the Cursed Seal of Heaven should be removed. Pretty much for the fact that it has nothing to do with the Uchiha, Sharingan or Susanoo at all. That was something by Orochi. I think the reference to it looking like a complete Sharingan is sufficient enough. Anyone agree? I really do just think it looks.. Out of place being there (o___O) SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:40, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see a big deal leaving it the way it is. The trivia is about the shape, not the concepts behind them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:12, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Conversely, I don't really see a need to keep it. The tomoe thing has always had a big role in Naruto same as swirls. Noting that Itachi's looks like that sounds a little like hinting at something.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:22, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

With alot of things though we have removed things like this? How something looks like something else and it's been removed because it has nothing to do with the technique. I think it should be removed. Sure, it may look like the CSoH, but that has nothing at all to do with Yasaka Magatama. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:01, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

What if we were to extend the line? "is reminiscent of the completed form of the Sharingan, (then adding something here linking how the Sharingan, Susanoo and Technique all tie in together). I can't exactly word what I mean, hopefully you get my main drift though? I feel quite strongly that the Cursed Seal part be removed, but don't want to remove it only to have the edit reverted. I'd rather have some back up first. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 13:28, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I personally don't see any reason to have that trivia point at all. People can do such comparisons themselves. Us putting things like this in the trivia only leads to unwanted and unnecessary implications. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:42, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just going to remove the CSoH part. I like the Sharingan comparison, the CSoH part just looks out of place. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 13:51, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Sasuke as a user
In chapter 574 pages 10 and 15, if you pay attention Sasuke's Susanoo is firing the tomoe consistent with the Magatama attack...except in his case they appear to be coated in the flames of Amaterasu. Any contrary opinions? Darksusanoo (talk) 15:50, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

While similar, they definitely aren't the same thing. From size to effect, they're quite different. Skitts (talk) 15:53, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Uhm...The technique varies from user to user like the Susanoo...Madara and Itachi's version anyone?. The only real difference is that their coated in Amaterasu flames. Darksusanoo (talk) 15:57, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

I don't remember Madara's being any different from Itachi's other than quantity of tomoe. Sasuke's seems like a different technique in my opinion. Skitts (talk) 16:05, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Madara's is different in the quantity and the fact that they are launched as separate projectiles, while Itachi's is a bound three tomoe version that is launched as a shuriken. Yes Sasuke has a small difference...the Amaterasu coating, but other than that it's the same technique. Remember as each Susanoo is different, so is the the use of each technique, but they are essencially the same. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:10, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Amaterasu coating seems to be a bigger difference to me than the difference between Madara and Itachi's versions. I would hold off listing his as a user of this for now. Since we'll probably see Sasuke using them again in the near future, there's a chance we'll get confirmation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:14, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Ever since receiving the EMS Sasuke's weapons have shown an Amaterasu coating, but that's more like Blaze Release added on the Susanoo. Re-check the chapter, the shape of the attack clearly resembles the Magatama attack, plus we know that even though Susanoo's may be different they may share the some of the same weapons. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:35, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * They do but magatamas aren't exactly uncommon with Susanoo or even the Uchiha. All the Yasaka Magatama techniques we've seen have then tomoe joined together. This one just fires out Amaterasu flames in that form. I'd also hold off on adding him as a user since he's on the minority side.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:45, February 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * They dont seem to be solid chakra at all like the others but just blaze release given how they react on impact.--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 18:35, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Although I agree with refraining from adding Sasuke as a user for now, given some of the similarities, I believe a trivia note may be the best option currently. Then, not only are both sides appeased, but the information can also easily be transferred to a more appropriate place when necessary, rather than simply resulting in the creation of yet another unnamed technique. Blackstar1 (talk) 16:58, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

An article's been created for the technique after the discussion. Not too sure how you guys want to proceed but meh I can't be bothered to beat a dead horse.--Cerez365™ 19:54, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * The jutsu only shares similar shape nothing else so its name shouldnt link them together given their distinct differences though they should be put down as 'similar techniques' and have a link to each other. In my opinion they should be called 'Blaze release Tomoe' to avoid people thinking they are the same technique, something long those lines anyway.

--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 09:44, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

My 2 cents:

he is using the magatama, you can clearly see the tomoe shape on the left Also it's Susanoo's power so if both itachi and Madara can do it then Sasuke as well ... and since this looks a lot like it, I don't think it's a new technique until Kishi names it somehow. I support listing him as an user and adding "Sasuke's version" to Magatama article. --Elveonora (talk) 21:56, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tomoe shape or not its clearly made of Amaterasu given how its acts on impact, its not made purely of chakra but purely of Amaterasu. This shows it to be a Blaze release jutsu given its made of Amaterasu and has had shape manipulation on it.

--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 09:39, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Uhm everything is made of chakra...both the Magatama and Amaterasu. Plus it doesn't make sense that he uses a technique which is almost exactly like the Magatama in shape and use and it's something completely new. We've seen that the Magatama attack varies from user to user...in Sasuke's case he just coats the Magatama in the Amaterasu. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:28, February 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sasukes is made of Amaterasu whereas the Magatama like susano is chakra made into a physical form.
 * Its only shares the shape, its qualities however are that of blaze as its made of Amaterasu and shaped into the tomoe where Magatama is chakra made into a physical form. Its not coated look at the manga again and you will see that on impact it is clearly just flame.

--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 17:00, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly i still believe it's Magatama...the thing is what confuses people about Sasuke's Susanoo is the fact that his weapons appear to be either made or with a coating of the Amaterasu. Therefore i find more reasonable to believe that his is a variation of the Yasaka Magatama than a brand new technique, which is like 80% the same as the Magatama attack. Itachi's uses 3 tomoe bound together as a shuriken, Madara's uses a larger number, which he fires as separate projectiles, maybe Sasuke's has the ability to incinerate foes. I think it would be more adequate to say that his variation aplies the Blaze Release instead of being a brand new technique. But either way i prefer seeing the technique shown in some proper way until we get more info so do as you please. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:05, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * But the only similarity is the appearance; the fact its clearly made of ama seperates it from yasaka jutsu entirely. If it was simply solidified chakra then it would no doubt be yasaka mgatama. There is a plentiful amount of info on it given we can see the source it comes from and the effect it has on impact.
 * --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 22:11, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

I agree, Sasuke usually coats his techniques with Amaterasu, such as his Susanoo Sword and Shield of Black Flames. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 23:02, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * look at how it acts on impact on page 10 and more clearly 15. Theres no solid chakra there, its not coated its purely flame.
 * --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 23:05, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Even so...it's still a projectile attack that's shaped like a magatama...it's not a new technique, it's variation of the original. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:23, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * The fact its created out of something completely different changes every thing, its like ignoring a new fire release jutsu because there is a wind release jutsu of the same shape. The fact its made of Amaterasu that has had shape manipulation applied to it makes it a blaze release jutsu and undeniably a new jutsu regardless whether it resembles a jutsu that has different characteristics to it.
 * --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 23:37, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

The magatama are many times smaller and are projected directly from the orb Susanoo holds in its third hand. This technique is different. Even if by some stretch it ends up being a variation of Itachis' and Madara's, it's still that, a variation. Mini-Rasenshuriken is still a separate technique despite being a variation of the original, because its effect and size difference. Skitts (talk) 23:29, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't his amaterasu sword the "chakra sword" of susanoo just coated in Amaterasu ? This technique is most likely Magatama coated in Amaterasu --Elveonora (talk) 23:41, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Page 15 in the latest chapter, pay attention to the impact.--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 23:43, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

To go off my previous post, I think that Sasuke's attack deserves its own, new article, being as it's only similarity to this technique is apparently its shape. @Elevenora The magatama are produced directly from the black orb, so they aren't simply coated. Skitts (talk) 00:22, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely but what would you call it, Blaze release: Tomoe?
 * --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 00:24, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Other than with Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi, I think we're holding off on giving Blaze Release to anything since it's a rather iffy Nature transformation. Skitts (talk) 00:26, February 17, 2012 (UTC) As for the name, I'm not sure. Skitts (talk) 00:26, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think the ":" is necessary. "Blaze Release Tomoe", or if you want a name that mirrors this technique a bit "Blaze Release Magatama" (because the tomoe is just a shape, whereas the magatama is an actual object). We have Kagutsuchi for the spikes, and a descriptive name for the shield. Are we going to split the "Blaze Release Sword" as well? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:31, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. As for the sword, I'm not sure. Is it different enough from Susanoo Sword to warrant its own article, or would a section or aside in that article suffice? Skitts (talk) 00:34, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Eithers fine with me given its made clear that relation between the two jutsu is only aesthetic.
 * The arrows too have been said to have blaze released combined with them being used for close combat instead of it being an actual sword, im not too sure how to go about it.
 * Should the trivia be removed from this page about sasukes new blaze jutsu and instead a link to similar technique?--Kotoamatsukami (talk) 00:39, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Kotoamatsukami: That change should only be made after the creation of the new article. Also, I believe the amaterasu blade should be left as it currently is (noted in the Susanoo Sword and Susanoo Bow articles), as we don't have enough information to define it is either a sword or an arrow, let alone enough to warrant an entirely separate article. Blackstar1 (talk) 01:04, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

I made the page. o3o Improve where necessary. Skitts (talk) 02:30, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

It's obvious all Sasuke's jutsus that are related with Susanoo will have an amateratsu added to them. Blade, arrows, shield and now magatama. Why not to create a separate page for every of them just because they're coated in flames? Be consistent or admit it's the same jutsus. Faust-RSI (talk) 07:50, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

A teensy bit late, but whatever. @Faust-RSI The thing is, this isn't the same as what Madara and Itachi did. Those two generated chakra bound magatama in the hands of their respective Susanoo, while Sasuke simply produced magatama-shaped flames from the orb his Susanoo holds. Skitts (talk) 04:52, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * The orb is what actually produces Amateratsu that surrounds Sasuke's weapons. Do you really think Kishi would waste panels showing in detail that first magatama is produced and then it immediately surrounded with the flames from the orb? I don't think so, moreover, those actions seems to happen at the same time, that's why it seems magatamas are produced from the orb itself.Faust-RSI (talk) 14:47, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but what you just said has passed the realm of "reading between the lines". How are you going to argue that what Sasuke did and the Yasaka Magatama technique are the same using an assumption like that vs. actual observation?


 * All we have to work with is similarities observed in the techniques until it gets a databook entry. Sasuke fired single tomoe-shaped attacks at his target(s) as opposed to Madara and Itachi whose attacks were joined together somehow — it's as simple as that really.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:54, February 26, 2012 (UTC)

Enton?
I don't understand why the Blaze Release section should not be updated with Sasuke's new techniques. Isn't the Amaterasu-coated tomoe a form of inferno manipulation? Not only that, I do not see any mention of the Sasuke Susanoo sword/arrow coated with Amaterasu as well. Are they not forms of Blaze manipulation? Burra101 (talk) 16:34, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sasuke's article mentions those in the appropriate sections, such as nature transformation, and EMS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:41, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Nevermind Burra101 (talk) 19:07, February 17, 2012 (UTC)