Talk:Ōtsutsuki Clan

Main Family Icon
Hey, I did this Icon to represent the Main Family Ōtsutsuki. OBS:I think it's an official symbol to appear in Movie. This symbol appears in the battle between the two families (Ōtsutsuki's). --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 02:59, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's very good, but how should we use it? --Lukas Pessoa Dantas (talk) 03:18, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Use as a symbol of Main Family, or even make a section on them. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 14:36, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks great, it would be even better if you add intersecting lines and some colour inside triangles.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 14:54, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can do this^^. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 15:21, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Done! Icon Colored and intersecting lines. OBS: If you want I colored the ellipse, tell me. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 15:45, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Great job on the image icon, much appreciated! we can use this, just a tiny correction, if you could rotate and make the small triangles's apex point below the big triangles' base points (no need to touch) just so they are aligned not parallel below each other, just like the one in image, I hope it's not too much :D Thanks a bunch!--Mecha Naruto (talk) 16:53, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

I was about to add this svg but unfortunately the page is protected. Meanwhile you can improve it and upload it to this wiki it would be helpful thanks :).--Mecha Naruto (talk) 17:36, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll fix it^^. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 19:56, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Done! New Icon. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 20:11, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * I made a new one for the Clan Symbol. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 23:54, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Where we include New Icon? I propose to leave the old symbol in the infobox while this insert it as an image in the bottom of the article with a caption.--Sharingan91 (talk) 09:41, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * One question: are these icons official, or are they just random fanon ? --Sajuuk talk 10:11, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't know if the colour is, but the symbol is official, as seen in the movie.--Omojuze (talk) 15:18, May 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are official. The colorful and just take the color. --Shodai Tsuchi (talk) 15:29, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

The movie book says the following about the mark on Toneri's back:
 * トネリが身に纏う装束には、六道の陽と陰を併せた紋様が象られる.
 * On the costume that Toneri wears, there's a design in the shape of a combined Six Paths Yin and Yang.

• Seelentau 愛 議 20:01, July 9, 2015 (UTC)

Branch Family Symbol
In The Last, it's been shown multiple times that the Branch Family's symbol is actually a bronze, yellowish color. Is that grounds to replace the clear/transparent one we currently have? --Jizo 悟 (talk) 23:58, July 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm also clueless as to why I see the same symbol in both the infobox and trivia section. 00:18, July 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * "If I don't, who will?!" --Jizo 悟 (talk) 10:18, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Is there a reason we're using the branch family's symbol for members of the main family or the Otsutsuki clan in general? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:05, July 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Has more of teh cool factor.--Elve Talk Page 12:39, July 25, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the Main Branch no longer exists? --Jizo 悟 (talk) 07:05, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Oh well, the article is in need of some updating. Also why isn't Rinne Sharingan mentioned in abilities?--Elve Talk Page 11:22, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why're you even asking that? You know the answer very well. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:38, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, I still don't get the reasoning behind Rinne Sharingan exclusion.--Elve Talk Page 11:53, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kaguya got it from an outside source. Unlike the Byakugan, the Rinne Sharingan was never part of her bloodline. So, since no one can awaken it simply by being part of her bloodling, it's not her clan's kekkei mora. Or would you say the Sharingan is part of the Hatake clan as well? • Seelentau 愛 議 12:08, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * So your point is that she wasn't born with it and it's not inheritable?--Elve Talk Page 12:11, July 26, 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Or at least not in its original form. Parts of it obviously were inherited as the Rinnegan and the Sharingan. But to acquire the full thing, you need to eat the chakra fruit or do whatever Madara did to awaken it. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:14, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Or it's even possible, that someone else consuming the chakra fruit would have given different powers, not Rinne Sharingan, who knows.--Elve Talk Page 12:27, July 26, 2015 (UTC)

Momoshiki & Kinshiki confirmed as Otsutsuki's
Zai no Sho confirms that both Momoshiki & Kinshiki are Otustsuki's. --DC52 (talk) 07:34, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * There not members, there descendants like Ginkaku and Kinkaku --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:37, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yup. They're definitely not called Otsutsuki. The term used is 末裔 matsuei, which really simply means descendant. Kinkaku and Ginkaku are 子孫 shison, a term that means descendant as well, but there's probably some kind of difference I don't know of right now. • Seelentau 愛 議 07:48, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * So why are we listing them as members if they aren't called Otsutsuki? Toneri said he was the last of his clan after all. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:53, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because I like to act prematurely x) Remove it if you want~ • Seelentau 愛 議 07:54, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * So their not descendants but members now? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:54, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well they did introduce themselves as "Otsutsuki" and there was the whole flashback to Kaguya and such, so I would say yes.--Omojuze (talk) 15:57, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * They're distant members of the clan. They just didn't have the last name in the Zai no Sho, so I thought it would be better to remove them. But since they're even introducing themselves as Otsutsuki, the case is clear, isn't it? • Seelentau 愛 議 16:02, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Crystal clear. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:11, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

Do they predate Kaguya? Are they directly related to her? 3rd son? Cousin? Husband?--Elve Talk Page 16:13, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, once again I turned to 4chan's /a/ board for help, but the people there were huge jackasses. After much trashtalking, someone finally answered my question about the difference of shison (what Kingin are to Hagoromo) and matsuei (what Shikis are to Otsutsuki clan). Shison are mose closely related, like children and grandchildren, while matsuei can also be more distantly related. I have no idea of their relationship with Kaguya, though. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:26, August 7, 2015 (UTC)

@Elveonora, From what i understand Momoshiki & Kinshiki are Kaguyas retainers. Also someone needs to add Momoshiki & Kinshiki as members of the Otsutsuki clan on this page. --DC52 (talk) 02:47, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * They should be appearing already, I think. Probably those weird media filtering things at play. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:17, August 10, 2015 (UTC)
 * So...if they're descended from the Ōtsutsuki but not actually members, do we treat them the way we do Shin Uchiha and the Uchiha clan? And is there any clarification on what "Retainer of Kaguya" actually means? --Jizo 悟 (talk) 09:04, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Their surnames are Otsutsuki though. It probably means there's no actual Otsutsuki Clan anymore, just like there's no actual Uzumaki Clan anymore, there might be Karin, Naruto and his children, but they aren't like: "hey, lets restore the clan and become famous fuuinjutsu users again" or something. In blood and name they are extant, but as a clan defunct.--Elve Talk Page 09:39, August 12, 2015 (UTC)

Rinne Sharingan
Why is this not included in the infobox? Kaguya's always only ever been shown with it. Madara going to the moon to awaken it has no bearing on the origins of Kaguya's. Going by that logic, we should presume that Indra awakened the Sharingan, or that Haggers awakened the Rinnegan. of which would mean de-listing the Sharingan and Rinnegan.

She isn't known as the originator for nothing. Pesa123456789 (talk) 19:30, August 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the Rinne Sharingan isn't part of the clan, like for example the Byakugan is for the Hyuga clan. You don't get the Rinne Sharingan by being born into the clan, so it's not the clan's dojutsu. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:35, August 8, 2015 (UTC)

"Novel, Movie Only"
In the case of Momoshiki, Kinshiki and Toneri; if the movies they appeared in are confirmed to be canon, do we really need to say they're only members in certain media? Do we need the specifics of it? --Jizo 悟 (talk) 23:10, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, because they only appear there. The canonicity doesn't matter. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:34, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * If the canicity doesn't matter then why mention it at all?--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 23:36, August 12, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because it's about the media a character (or whatever) appears in, not about the canonicity of the media. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:50, August 12, 2015 (UTC)

Main family emblem
Is there any reason we're not using the main family emblem in the infoboxes of Indra, Hagoromo and Kaguya? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:15, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * That is an excellent suggestion, but I think the only ones that can be confirmed as "Main" would be Kaguya, Hagoromo & Hamura, Indra & Ashura, and finally Otstsuki Patriarch. Shock Dragoon (talk) 17:28, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Um no, Asura was born second, so he would be branch, but I don't think it counted for those 2 anyway, after all, they and Hagoromo were the only ones from the family left on Earth.--Elve Talk Page 22:03, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

Time
Several decades after Toneri's attack, two distant descendants of the Ōtsutsuki clan, Momoshiki and Kinshiki would arrive on earth in search of the tailed beasts. After abducting Naruto and fighting him, his son and Sasuke in another dimension, they would ultimately be defeated by the three shinobi's combined effort.

This Should Say A Decade, Not Several Decades, Gaiden Itself Takes Place 10 Years After The Last, And The Movie Can't Be More Than A Year After That, lol. Actually Its Probably Less Than A Year. Bob1200 (talk) 01:23, August 25, 2015 (UTC)

Ogres and misc
Their similarity to the Japanese youkai "Oni" (Ogre) might be worth mentioning. The Boruto novel directly calls Kin and Momo "Ogres" until they introduce themselves as well. They also share general similarities with the Onis like: Strange skin and hair color, one or two horns and little to no eyebrows. This is especially prominent in the movie where Kinshiki fights with a club and an axe mostly; standard weapons for onis and when Momo eats Kin he gains generally Oni like features like red skin which is the most common skin color amongst Onis, bulky build, fanged teeth etc. He generally starts to look like an Oni. (Ex: https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/changelingthedreaming/images/1/1b/Yokai_Oni.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140218023152) His name also comes from Momotarou's who was a well known Oni slayer in the folklore.

Also looks like there are 3 types of people amongst them: -The pure blood: Having bluish gray hair, and brown-ish woodlike horns and some form of higher doujutsu than the standard Byakugan. (Momoshiki, Kaguya) -The half bloods: Having mismatching horns with the same colors as their skin and having only one or a variation of their parent's doujutsu. (Kishiki, Hagoromo, Hamura) -The mixed bloods: Grandchildren and onwards adapting the appearance of the race their forefathers married into, but still inheriting their forerunners' eyes or a variation of it. (Ashura, Indra, Toneri) --Exkirion (talk) 01:33, September 3, 2015 (UTC)

The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter
Is Kaguya and her clan based off of Taketori Monogatari (竹取物語) ? Or am I completely off base? ChildofKyne (talk) 04:57, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Could be, for me the only think both share is name and origin. It could also be related to Sailor Moon haha.--Keeptfighting (talk) 07:18, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Her name and title are, it's already in her trivia btw ;)--Omojuze (talk) 11:04, September 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Nah, you're on base. 16:38, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Where does the article get nigh-omniscience/omnipotence from?
Why does the article state "indicating the clan members somewhat retained both nigh-omnipotence and nigh-omniscience attributes". What proof is there of the Otsutsuki clan being nigh-omnipotent & nigh-omniscient? --DC52 (talk) 07:23, January 22, 2016 (UTC)

Otsutsuki "species"
Should there be a page for them? I think its pretty significant that some of the last main villains are their own race separate from humans.--RexGodwin (talk) 07:11, May 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't think its necessary imo. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:24, May 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * Isn't everything already covered in the article?--Elve Talk Page 15:55, May 1, 2016 (UTC)

priesthood
Weren't Asura and Indra also priests? Ninshu and all.--Elve Talk Page 12:29, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

Puppet Technique
Is there anything that actually calls the Ōtsutsuki users of the Puppet Technique? If anything, the puppets of the moon appear to have a form of artificial intelligence and operate independently. We even see Toneri give them verbal commands at one point in the movie.--BeyondRed (talk) 17:18, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Read this. At the bottom. It's FF-Suzaku's translation of parts of Retsu no Sho. It claims the origin of of puppets and its practitioners come from the Otsutsuki. 17:22, June 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Apparently the puppets are animated and controlled by natural energy coming from the Tenseigan, although not confirmed, cause no one has been able to get hands on the fully translated The Last novel.--Elve Talk Page 19:08, June 11, 2016 (UTC)

Toneri
Can anyone take off 'anime only' from Toneri's listing in the clan member section?--Anchorman34 (talk) 21:18, August 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * Due to the way "x only" tags are set up, that tag appears there because Toneri doesn't appear in the manga. If I understand it correctly, the "anime only" tag would likely disappear if in Toneri's infobox, he is checked as a character that appears in the manga.  22:29, August 30, 2017 (UTC)

Official clan emblem
"When a priest made a hand seal, a pattern emerged around the bride and groom’s feet. The double cross design—the crest of the Ootsutsuki clan—was being drawn." - The Last novel. Anyone recall seeing the emblem within the movie? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:30, January 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * Can someone make a svg image of the emblem? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:41, March 29, 2018 (UTC)

Just a question: where’s this “main vs branch” emblem coming from? Kishimoto designer the clan symbol, was there confirmation that they have 2 emblems? Otherwise this sun(?) icon should be treated as other information, not take over as an official symbol.—Cerez 365  (talk) 18:10, April 3, 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm unsure if there's information in Retsu no Sho regarding them, but the distinction of emblems from my understanding stems from this this scene. From memory, the only mention of the emblems in the novel is from the same scene - "A great number of soldiers began a war. A battle flag with a crescent moon and sun was being waved". --Sarutobii2 (talk) 04:44, April 7, 2018 (UTC)

Celestial beings?
Is there anything that states they are, or are they Aliens? There is a clear difference. Celestial leans more to Divine where as Aliens are just beings not of Earth. JamesSenpai (talk) 20:06, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
 * It's the term Toneri used to refer to Urashiki. He also referred to them as Gods in an older episode. I was the one who came up with the alien classification, although people changed it to celestial being. I would say celestial being is just a description... but then again, so is alien, rather than a name of a specific race. I'm fine with both alien and celestial being. And I don't agree that celestial has to refer to divine/magical beings. Hell, it wouldn't even be wrong to refer to celestial beings, assuming they were ones, as aliens.

Celestial being = being originating from space, unearthly. Alien = outsider, stranger, foreigner, so still correct, even though in this case it mostly refers to a space alien.--Elve Talk Page 20:30, April 30, 2018 (UTC)

Information is this article is factually outdated and should be split
1. Kaguya was not the "clan's leader". At least not the main clan.

2. "clan members coming to Earth to steal her chakra" is wrong. They are coming to RECLAIM the crop, after she defected from the main clan.

3. Kaguya didn't "grow jealous that they inherited some of her power", but engaged them after they interfered with her God Tree plan.

4. There are main clain and Earth-based clan, who then departed to the Moon to form the Moon-based clan. They have seperate histories and should be split into different sections.

--GTA6v1 (talk) 09:59, August 6, 2018 (UTC)


 * Although you're right in some aspects, some are still erroneous
 * 1. Actually, she was. The information comes from the fourth databook where it's stated that she arrived on the Earth with her clan as a leader. This clan (or at least a part of it) later immigrated to the Moon after Kaguya was sealed and Hamura became a new leader. Kaguya filler in the anime messed up with the storyline and showed it as if Kaguya arrived alone which isn't true.
 * 2. That's more or less true with the updates given in Boruto.
 * 3. Again, according to the databook and manga, the jealousy was the actual reason. The interference in the God Tree plans is also something anime filler completely messed up with.
 * 4. The Moon-based clan is still a descendant of the main clan. We know little to nothing about this "man clan" to make a separate section for it Ravenlot 27 (talk) 10:23, August 6, 2018 (UTC)
 * Just my personal opinion, but we should at least split the original pure Otsutsuki and Moon Otsutsuki in the article. The reason for this, is that the pure Otsutsuki (like Kaguya, Momoshiki, Kinshiki, Urashiki etc.) supposedly split into main and branch families, but Hamura's descendants split into their own main and branch families, independent on the pure Otsutsuki, meaning Hamura's main family isn't the same main family that Urashiki spoke of etc.--Elve Talk Page 10:57, August 6, 2018 (UTC)