Forum:Jutsu articles

It looks like I've ignored Jutsu articles for far to long. It looks as if we have multiple issues that need to be dealt with because this is gone to chaotic.

Issues

 * A number of our Jutsu articles were copied by one or two users who I won't mention, directly from the Leafninja.com website. Other than the fact that formatting it is annoying and they should actually be created first by the Wikipedia articles, but also its illegal; Leafninja.com is not GFDL licensed or PD, it's copyrighted by the authors of the site. You can cite the site for information, but you can't C&P the jutsu information because that's a CopyVio. (This means that those articles are most likely going to need to be mass-deleted)
 * We have not even finished a format for Jutsu articles, mostly we're missing the infobox. While it doesn't seem to be something big, it actually means that when we're done with the Infoxbox, we'll need to go back and re-edit every last one of our jutsu articles.
 * Our Wikipedia copies are not properly attributed; No-one has bothered to cite exactly where they got the Wikipedia versions of the Jutsu or copy an entire past article with proper revision attribution and then split that up in a manor which comments properly show what was done. Because of that we're not following the GFDL which actually lets us copy them and that makes 90% of our remaining jutsu articles that don't fall under the first issue to be GFDL violations instead which is just as bad.

Discussion
Well, the first thing it looks like I'm going to half to do is halt the creation of Jutsu articles. Most of ours need to be re-done anyways, so working on them in a chaotic manor is not going to help the wiki one bit. We can resume creating articles in a structured manor after we've fixed everything and made a set of standards for Jutsu articles.

Just note, most likely we're going to half to Mass-delete the Jutsu articles that are just CopyVios or GFDL violations and have not had much of our input into, and re-do the ones that have had our input into, and then copy the stuff that was good from there and merge it in. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 8, 2007 @ 23:56 (UTC)


 * A total deletion is not needed for a number of reasons, one is that my sanity won't be able to handle it (spent 2 weeks fixing that IPs pages just to have them deleted...no thanks. :P), they may just need to be reworked some.--TheUltimate3 01:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Then an infobox is needed,
If we want to have some higher quality jutsu articles that the best Idea would be to really get some sort of infobox, even if it will be a temporary one that doesn't have any sort of Sync built into it, another aspect that I may suggest for the infobox is a section similar to that of the Akatsuki (forgive my spelling) one in the character infobox for Kekki Genki, so instead of being a Jutsu infobox it applies to all abilities. Another thing, Citing sources on these and many other articles is a priority, It's really hard to find exactly where you found this information in the Manga / Anime, (this should be added to the red outlined box above). Tales-of-a-fan 00:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I intended to make a Skill infobox at one point... I'm going to use that, and use a sub box specific to jutsu and put the auto-categorization into that. Making an infoxbox sub box actually isn't very hard for the system, what's hard is finding out what parameters are needed and what sub boxes they should be put in. This time to lessen the work on me and help me get them out faster, could you list here what parameters we need for the Jutsu. And we'll figure out what ones are Naruto specific and what ones are better for general boxes, and also what ones should be put in the start part of the infobox itself. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 9, 2007 @ 00:51 (UTC)

I remember I worked out what would need to be listed for an ability's info box a while back, Ill get back to you in a moment... *disappears* Here it is:

-Section 1 basic details.
 * title of info box.
 * Name.
 * Japanese.
 * Picture.
 * Image size.

-Section 2 Origins.
 * Original User.
 * Affiliations (country / village based).
 * users.

-Section 3 technical.
 * Type (short range, long range,).
 * Rank.
 * Element.

-Section 4 Keki Genki (optional).
 * Affiliation.
 * Relatives (such as the Sharingan's relation to the baykugan, again sorry for the spelling).
 * Users.

-Section 5 Variants.
 * (list of variants, stuff such as all of Naruto's resengan techniques...)

Thats it, :) Tales-of-a-fan 01:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Those sound good I suppose. Though I wouldn't use Affilations, as every jutsu can technically be used everywhere, just look at Kakashi.--TheUltimate3 01:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... (The ones that start with / are general, and the ones that start with /Naruto/ are the ones that'll be Naruto specific. Take a look at Leafninja.com (A Ninjutsu page) for the difference between what we consider Type and what we will consider type, as well as the addition of Range. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 9, 2007 @ 01:48 (UTC)
 * /Start (This always has the English/Kanji/Romanji and image stuff in it)
 * Type (This is not a Ninja Jutsu type but a special param I will have in the system to allow for different types of skills using the same system... In our case Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, etc...)
 * /Users
 * Creator
 * Users
 * /Naruto/Jutsu
 * Rank
 * Type
 * Range
 * Element
 * Clan
 * Kekkei Genkai
 * Requirements
 * /Other (We'll use the normal standard /Other box to list the Related Jutsu and Variants)


 * I think Type is what it is (example: A-Rank, Attack, Close Range, ect). Range is simple as if a jutsu is a projectile that goes or can go a long distance is long range, a technique that can go further than 5m (as used on Wikipedia) but no higher than 10m is Mid Range, and close range is 0m to 5m, not that far from the user.--TheUltimate3 01:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, I think thats what I explaind in my original listing, and what you refferd to type dantman, is what I would call a clasification, so I've slightly updated my list, with explinations, I also think that it should be divided inot invisible sections to help the writers.

-Section 1 basic details.
 * title of info box.
 * Name.
 * Japanese.
 * Picture.
 * Image size.

-Section 2 Origins.
 * Original User. (since creator would limit thinks like the kekki genki)
 * Affiliations (country / village based, some may be disticly belong to a certain villege such as the water clone, even thogh they are copied by ninja such as Kakashi).
 * users. (self explanatory)

-Section 3 technical.
 * Type (short range, long range,).
 * Rank (A-Rank, S-rank, ETC.)
 * Element. (fire based, shadow based, water based, you get the picture)
 * Riquierments (things like Garra's demon for his sand technic)
 * Classification (Genjustsu, ninjutsu, etc.)

-Section 4 Keki Genki (optional).
 * Affiliation. (clan it comes from)
 * Relatives (such as the Sharingan's relation to the baykugan, again sorry for the spelling).
 * Users. (self explanatory)

-Section 5 Variants. Tales-of-a-fan 02:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (list of variants, stuff such as all of Naruto's resengan techniques...)


 * The Type is actually the (Supplementary, Attack, etc...) type. Basically from what I understand the difference between something that offensively attacks a user, defends the user, increases their abilities, or decreases the enemy's abilities. The sections as you refer are actually sub boxes in the system, they aren't meant to divide the infobox up by sections with headers, they have a completely different purpose. Consider them not like a section in the infobox, but a lego brick. They are meant to be able to build dozens of different variations of infoboxes using what kinds of things you need and re-organizing the blocks to fit properly. They aren't meant to separate visual parts in the infobox but to make it so that we can reuse the system anywhere. The infobox system isn't specific to us, it's designed so that we could use it here, but the same system will also work for a character on the Marpedia, another on the Dragon Ball Wiki, and any series that shows up on the Animepedia. So basically what I've created is not a static infobox, but a generic infobox which can be rebuilt to your purposes much like a stack of lego bricks and formed into whatever type of building you need for your purposes. But as for your redone list, that stuff within Kekkei Genkai isn't needed. The affiliation (clan) and users is already defined in other areas of the box it's not needed there. A Kekkei Genkai infobox will be completely different than the article of a Jutsu that uses a Kekkei Genkai, we're only working on the latter, I'll work on a different infobox for Kekkei Genkai like the Sharingan later. The only thing we need in this is what Kekkei Genkai a Jutsu belongs to. The affiliations isn't really needed as those cases are something that would fit within the users parameter. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 9, 2007 @ 03:36 (UTC)

If a jutsu has no Afflitation then a N/A would be put, or the box paramater would be left empty, And I kinda understood the structure of the infobox earlier, I use section instead of "Sub Box" becuese I didn't really know what a sub box was called, and since I know that what looks like code within the infobox itself actually calls on other more complex code, I just want to sort of provide diffrer between areas in the loist since it seem helps orginize it in my head, less toward the infobox itself. Heres another updated list:

Section 1 basic details.
 * title of info box.
 * Name.
 * Japanese.
 * Picture.
 * Image size.

Section 2 Information
 * Original User. (since as implied by Orochimaraho they are discoverd not created this builds amidddle ground between the two)
 * Affiliations (country / village based, some may be disticly belong to a certain villege such as the water clone, even thogh they are copied by ninja such as Kakashi).
 * users. (self explanatory)
 * Type (deffencive, offencive, stuff like that)
 * Range (short range, long range,)
 * Rank (A-Rank, S-rank, ETC.)
 * Element. (fire based, shadow based, water based, you get the picture)
 * Riquierments (things like The sharingan for certain justsu)
 * Classification (Genjustsu, ninjutsu, etc.)

Section 3 Varriants (a box like the family or jutsu sub box on a charcter infobox, which are listed as "other" in the "code" itself) (yes I know the code in there isn't "real" code, but used to call on other code) Tales-of-a-fan 02:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (list of variants, stuff such as all of Naruto's resengan techniques...)


 * The classification is not going to be down there. It's part of the Start box as type because the system is going to support different modes so that different types of skills can have infoboxes for them on the same wiki without conflicting with each other. But when a jutsu has an affiliation it is normally a case that either the village or clan created the jutsu or are the users for it. Which in that case the use of the Users box would be best. I'm actually thinking of how I might do something special for separating types in the same thing. Such as using  Where a normal parameter is a person, a parameter with a (v) is a village, and a parameter with a (c) is a clan. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion  Oct 10, 2007 @ 16:29 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good. I guess I'll just wait till you'r done with that to start fixing up those articles, and stick with the charcter ones till then. Tales-of-a-fan 22:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest that summoning techniques be in a category of their own...as in, neither offensive nor defensive, since they can be both, just "summoning type". Also, the inventors of most jutsus are unknown. For some, of course, it can be obvious (aka Baika no jutsu was in almost all probability a creation of the Akimichi clan and Kotan: Gokakyu no Jutsu was probably Uchiha Mandara), but in other cases, like Taju Kagebunshin no jutsu, not so much...so what do you propose about that?Jhbartlett 23:04, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * First I wish you'd use the english names, it would be easier to know what you are talking about. That being said, I wouldn't put Summonings into a class of their own mainly because they are presented as one or another thing, either an attack summon (Like Jiraiya's "Bringing Down the House" technique) or a supplementary summon like Gamabunta.--TheUltimate3 00:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

awsome
kool page ^_^