Talk:Itachi Uchiha

Underweight
Hey, is it too trivial to add either in appearance or trivia that Itachi is clinically underweight? Timeel39 (talk) 19:15, July 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Is the information correct? —ShounenSuki (talk 19:26, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well according to what others say he should've ideally been between 63-79 kg for his height, but wasn't Itachi terminally ill? I don't think it needs to be mentioned.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:24, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * If this is about BMI, many other characters would be considered underweight if we actually did the math. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:45, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that other countries use different definitions of 'underweight'. What is perfectly normal for one country could be underweight for another. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:37, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

This is rather typical, that the many authors give weight and height numbers that according to BMI would make many of their characters heavily under or overweight so i believe that we should just ignore any such numbers and just list them according to the data we have ^^ --Gojita (talk) 03:53, July 23, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

Itachi's performance in chapter 549
When trying to list Naruto's and Itachi's brief taijutsu battle, we have to make it clear Naruto easily intercepted Itachi and forced him back before B even got involved. He was also forced to retreat from B's Seven Sword Dance, we saw that he was hit by the blows due to the sound effects used. It was really impressive, but Naruto was trying to get confirmation about the Uchiha Clan Massacre and was informing Itachi what happened to Sasuke. Thus, we should add stipulations. Unless you honestly believe Itachi in base can survive a full powered hit from Naruto at full speed in his Nine-Tails Chakra Mode despite what it did to Kisame...--NaruHina fan (talk) 23:03, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok let me point out the flaws in your logic: first neither Naruto nor Itachi got any hits on one another...second both were talking while fighting...third it was Naruto the first to retreat form Itachi's offensive and Itachi only pulled out to dodge B's attack from behind. Fourth if neither was shown with a clear advantage it's listed as an equal fight...and no mentions to the speed or strength were made. What was mentioned weas the ability in combat and how neither had had any edge against the other. (Also there is always a lot of conversation in Naruto battles) Plus the "forced to retreat" doesn't actually hold any ground since it's natural for a trained ninja to gain as much distance as possible when under a barrage of heavy attacks. So unless in the next chapters we see Naruto outmatching or overpowering Itachi in other hand to hand combat ocassions...it should be stated that both fought on equal levels. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:22, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Uh what? The talking was the main point of their clash, both needed to learn about what happened to Sasuke (for Itachi) and the Uchiha Massacre (for Naruto). Naruto using his full speed and power in Nine-Tailed Chakra Mode surpasses A's speed remember, and here he hurt Kisame badly with a single punch despite being clad inside Samehada. Naruto didn't show any of the strength or speed he showed in previous chapters during his clash with Itachi. And Itachi WAS forced to retreat  before Killer B even struck.  When has Itachi ever shown physical strength on the level of clashing with someone who can push a Tailed Beast Ball (which is incredibly dense) without problems? Or speed that surpasses the Raikage's?--NaruHina fan (talk) 23:29, July 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok first off did you fail to notice i never made any reference to the physical strength levels? Second taijutsu isn't just about speed and strength, it about how to attack and block in the most correct ways. Third yes Raikage's speed maybe one of greatest in the series, but if you pay close atention the full extent of Itachi's isn't quite known since the only times he fought he was extremely ill and holding back during his fight (Sasuke fight), and yet it was still incredubly difficult to keep up with him. Now taking into account that as a ressurected shinobi Itachi's physical abilities are likely restored to full health and the fact that he is "programmed" to fight without restrictions means that his physical abilities are now much stronger than in his previous fight. Plus there is no logical reason for Naruto to hold back in the fight, because:

A. Itachi is dead and he'll actually regenerate from any damage done to him. B. (As stated above) As a ressurected ninja his powers are at max meaning he's even more dangerous than before. C. Unlike Itachi, Naruto is alive and can very well take damage and die even with the chakra cloak D. Naruto when learning that no one of Madara's army was actually alive stated he didn't have to hold back. E. By logic it would be easier to fight at full strength, restrain Itachi and the ask the necessary questions. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:54, July 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Itachi's speed and strength are very known in the series. He's not known for being a speedster. And 'extremely ill' and holding back? Those are the only feats we had. And Sasuke had zero trouble keeping up with Itachi outside the genjutsu battle. And yes, against Itachi, he had very logical reasons to hold back. All Naruto was doing there was trying to find out the truth of the Uchiha Massacre. Stop hyping up Itachi and making his brief skirmish with Naruto better than it really was.--NaruHina fan (talk) 00:13, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I've now attempted to rewrite this article's "Taijutsu" section in order for it to better reflect the capabilities and expertise Itachi demonstrated during this brief encounter, while still placing emphasis on the more questionable aspects that resulted in this discussion in the first place. Hopefully this helps to somewhat resolve both of your respective issues. Blackstar1 (talk) 00:41, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Anymore opinions please? Darksusanoo (talk) 00:44, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's much better Blackstar1. Thanks.--NaruHina fan (talk) 00:48, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Well then, shall I end this debate? Itachi was epic as usual... On a serious note though I really don't see a need to be inflating either of their ability sections. What are we going to do every time that Naruto fights? "His speed surpassed that of Itachi, Nagato, even the Thirrd Raikage..." It's not necessary to list every feat that they've accomplished against people as a display of their abilities it becomes tedious and simply unnecessary. Both of their abilities are listed with enough details that readers can get a full grasp of it.--Cerez365™ 03:19, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

I would just like to point out that a resurected ninja doesnt necesary has their powers at max, just look at Nagato. Before he absorbed Killer Bee's chakra his state was less than optimal, actually it was the exact same as when he died, not even being able to walk by himself. While its ovious not the fact with everyone (Deidara), does we actually have any information of the other being true, or is it just therories. --Cosmikaze (talk) 15:46, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Why is Itachi still able to use his Mangekyo?
Weren't his eyes implanted into Sasuke's? He activated them in the latest chapter.
 * Because if you read Summoning: Impure World Resurrection, you'll see that the resurrection doesn't raise the deceased one's own body, but their soul in the body of a sacrifice. They need just a bit of the person for the summoning contract to work. Other than his soul, and perhaps as little as a drop of blood, nothing in the body Naruto and B are fighting are actually Itachi. I thought everyone knew this, specially after people went nuts when Deidara appeared and everyone was like "how come Kabuto brought him back if his body exploded" and all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

So your sayin that those arent deidara nagato kakuzu sasori and itachis bodies.Lil rob (talk) 06:22, July 31, 2011 (UTC)Lil rob
 * Exactly. When Orochimaru revived the first and second hokage, he used Zaku Abumi & Kin Tsuchi's bodies as "hosts". Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:30, July 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * People have got to read the articles. They're written for a reason. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:30, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Crow Summoning?
Would it be wrong to consider that Itachi's able to summon crows? Considering this last crow's first appearance and Itachi's Crow Clone Technique, they appear out of nowhere, so he must summon them, right?Nawirama13 (talk) 18:50, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I swore I brought this up. Anyway, I can't seem to remember the crows disappearing like summoned creatures normally do and it's better not to speculate. The crow's odd though since we don't know whether or not it's a summon or Itachi created it or whatnot. Mentioning his affinity and use of them should have been enough.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 19:00, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

because naruto was caught in the genjutsu before the crow appeared we dont know how it got there. and considering that it's physical cause itachi transplanted shisui's ms into it. and multiple times in the manga itachi is seen with a crow and not just in genjutsu, he;s seen with one on his shoulder when he and sasuke met in that cave were itachi tells sasuke to meet him at the mansion were they had theyre final fight at.98.26.241.111 (talk) 21:49, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Crows
Sorry, I'm like confused... isn't the crows Itachi's power of Shisui's powers? --Ilnarutoanime 19:27, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * The crows are Itachi's.--Deva 27 19:32, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

the crow was Itachi-san's and he embedded one of Shisui-san's eyes in his crow.WashingAwaySins (talk) 18:48, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Can we at least respect…
…the fact that Kotoamatsukami is itachi"s jutsu too!

I dont no why this is being ignored but on the very first page of the manga chapter 550 Kotoamatsukami is referred to as itachi"technique but nobody as listed him as one of the users of it instead i see the credit being given to his crow instead go figure but its clear he says "i used a new genjtsu new" this chap

there also a bunch of weird things going on in his ablites section that looks poorly put togather or put togather by sombody who wants to discredited his skill.

Danzō actually used the genjutsu himself, after implanting the eye. Itachi himself never used the technique, he just set up the eye to activate given a certain condition. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:58, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

It says its his jutsu on the first page and itachi himself stated he used it the crow is itachis and itachi gave naruto some of his power i dont no how you can say he never used it when he just stated openly in fact he did. Jodyjoe0 (talk) 01:56, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Is Itachi Alive?
Hi, I'm sort of new but as of chapter 550 is Itachi alive since he's not controlled by Kabuto..or is he still controlled by Kabuto? The Manga's confuses me.KuroRai 02:13, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well. He broke free of the control, but he's still not what you and I would call alive. He's an Edo Tensei zombie without any master. Seelentau 愛議 01:17, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kabuto can no longer control Itachi's actions, though I believe that if he wanted, he could simply recall Itachi, similar to what he did with Deidara when Deidara was fighting Ōnoki, or else release Itachi's soul, making Itachi crumble into ashes and the body of the sacrifice. I don't think that's something Kabuto would do, not unless he has enough of Itachi to make a new sacrifice to summon him, if recalling someone more than once is even possible. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * By logic, it would be possible. But it would be stupid, because Kabuto could just re-summon Sasori, Shin etc. Seelentau 愛議 12:15, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * So Itachi can't be released by Kabuto? --Ilnarutoanime 12:27, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say no. Itachi himself said he broke free of Kabuto's control. Why would he be able to release Itachi? Seelentau 愛議 12:32, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then how would he be released? --Ilnarutoanime 13:07, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Dunno. This is the first time such a thing happened in the Manga. We've to wait for the next few chapters if we want a clear answer. Seelentau 愛議 13:46, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think something very anti-climatic will happen, such as Nagato using Soul Removal on Itachi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:54, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought Nagato used the Soul Removal on Naruto. --Ilnarutoanime 15:58, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

He was about to use it, if he had used it, Naruto would be dead right now. He only constricted him with those "chakra dragons", but hasn't yet proceeded to remove his soul. Anyway, Itachi could simply remain an active figure of the Manga, untill that which can free his soul is done... in Itachi's case, that would be Sasuke coming back to the light. After that happens, Itachi will be released from the binding...95.43.250.233 (talk) 16:12, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * @Ilnarutoanime He is using it against Naruto, what I mean is that I think that the end of Edo Itachi will be something anti-climatic, for example, him being "forcefully released" by Nagato, through the use of Soul Removal. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:15, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aah ok I misunderstood it. I think it will be since Kabuto completely controlled Nagato.--Ilnarutoanime 16:17, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

So then basically, No... that's a shame =/.KuroRai 18:30, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Kabuto probably won't be able to release him though, Itachi will most likely help Naruto convince Sasuke to come back, or if he still isn't convinced, maybe they will have a fight.. who knows? --YamatoSan (talk) 17:15, August 7, 2011 (UTC)YamatoSan

itachi abilities article kinda makes him look unimpressive on narutopedia
when reading about itachi article and compareing it to the last data book and whats been said in the manga you dont actually understand how powerful and skilled itachi is...but i read thing like "he was aware of his limitations, given his praise of Jiraiya, saying the best he could do against him was a stalemate" i get the feeling that the person writing or editing the article is trying to discredit itachi or didint actully read the manga before hand.....because it was stated that itachi was only doing and saying thing like that to e-viod conflict its no more true then him wanting to capture kakashi or naruto in part 1 so why was this even added?

also statement like "he is on another level to the others"(Edo Tenseis) by Kabuto or how even madara was always in amazement of itachi are skiped but what is added is "The only thing that Itachi was lacking was his chakra reserves, which was below average" WHAT? when i read minato there arent any negatives when i read jiraya they arent any negatives(he has alot of negative points about his abilities) but itachi has his powers thrown under the bus by narutopdia? it lmost looks in attentional.

i remember it never used to be like this but somebody which i can only conclude is a itachi hater or someone simply doesnt think that highly of him edited him severely to make him look less impressive then what he actually is. Jodyjoe0 (talk) 17:25, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Itachi did say that about Jiraiya. The fact he was ill puts a damper on his overall potential, him wanting to avoid conflict or not. If you check his databook stats, you'll see he has low stamina, which translates into smaller chakra pool, as chakra is physical energy mixed with spiritual energy. That in turn also showcases his good chakra control since we always see him use powerful techniques. It's interesting, because you're not taking in consideration anything good said about him, such as Sasuke being unable to defeat him despite Itachi's disadvantages. His taijutsu, ninjutsu and Sharingan sections only praise him. That makes you seem one of those people who are very partial towards Itachi, who can't see anything bad being said about him without accusing others of being haters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:37, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

That is something i wanted to bring up too, actually. I would have especially focused on the line "he was aware of his limitations, given his praise of Jiraiya, saying the best he could do against him was a stalemate". <== Itachi never said anything like this in the Manga, nor did Kisame say something along the lines: "If we both fight him at the same time, maybe we could win". This was Anime-only, like many other things that the Anime team likes to put in. The chapter in question is 144. It's quite the opposite, actually... Kisame states that Jiraiya might be a match for them.95.43.250.233 (talk) 17:42, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

If it was in the anime, we list it as well, as that is also part of the franchise. I'll look for chapter 144 and the corresponding episode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:47, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * This stalemate statement is kind of ironic actually, given that Itachi and Jiraiya share the same highest stat total (35.5). --kiadony 17:50, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Its not anime only, the translation may be wrong.--Deva 27 17:53, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

@Omnibender

I dont undrstand what your really trying to say here the only person with article that has bad things about him writein is ITACHI!AT LEAST the ones i have read so far in comparison so far and i have read alot of aritcles..

if your going to add the bit about his statment about jiraya then why didnt you add the bit where he openly states only a person with the same bloodline as him could defeat him? you see what im saying? why was that left out but the jiraya part added? ITACHI NOT TELLING THE TRUTH THERE? but he was when he praised jiraya?

you also forget itachi was just talking about himself but also kiasme as well with more men as back up to make it worst itachi didnt no what jiraya was capable of so what makes this statment so accurate to.

also the databook goes of of recent condition like sarutobi speed and strength being decreased because his old age itachi stamina is not actually that low it was because he was sick.

like i told you up there when i read minato jiraya and even sarutobi i dont see any negatives in fact i read inaccurate statements. to make them look stronger like minato being unsurpassable which raikage only said in the context of him thinking he was the chosen one because of jiraya told him so but you dont dare say according to raikage minato is a idiot.NO! only things that make him look good are added so why isnt itachi given the same treatment?

im wondering why are you attcaking my character for me making in observation calling me partial towards Itachi? WHAT? so your the one making him look that way?Jodyjoe0 (talk) 18:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I wonder what's wrong with Itachi's article. --Ilnarutoanime 18:28, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying you are, I'm saying it makes you look like. The only bad things ever said or shown about Jiraiya's ability was that he sucked at genjutsu, and that he didn't master Sage Mode. Itachi was said to keep himself alive with medicine, but was never said since when, or for how long he did that. For all we know, he could already be sick when he was introduced. Kimimaro was also fatally ill, but his stamina in the databook is 4.5, though I think that the fact he has a cursed seal puts his stamina up as well, something Itachi didn't have. Hiruzen's article shows that he has lost a lot of his power with age, as shown with the limited use of Shadow Clones. Minato's article has few negatives about him because the manga itself shows few negatives about him, such as failing to combine nature transformation with the Rasengan. I list what the manga and anime show, just that. What makes Itachi look good is that he was able to do everything he did, despite having the fatal illness disadvantage, something that in my opinion makes him even more impressive, not less. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

i see so what has been listed is a representation of what you believe makes itachi impressive? i think i understand now.This also explains why his abilities section his changed so much since the time of his death.it makes sense i doubt all the editors are objective with opinions after all it went from"itachi is a exceptionally gifted who easlly deafeated several powerful shniboi(whos names got listed) to "he was aware of his limitations, given his praise of Jiraiya, saying the best he could do against him was a stalemate(even though kisame was postive itachi would beat him)

But i can see what has happend but i digressJodyjoe0 (talk) 20:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Don't get mad at the wiki get mad at Kishi, as the manga went on since his first shown fight a lot about him has been revealed good and bad. If anything, Kishi has shown that he is a amazing ninja who prepares for many situations and has great chakra control.Umishiru (talk) 20:55, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

@Umishiru

Im not mad at kishi or wiki

But i wonder if you were going by whats shown then isnt only right to add that only a sharingan user can beat him? you no since he said so and proved it?you see what i did there openly used one statment that can be proven false but yall ignored the other which cant!im not saying add both but im saying it exposes a certain bias for some character and how you write their articles

that one had to be ignored right for someones own personal veiws on the matter LOL but like i said i digress! Jodyjoe0 (talk) 21:22, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

i just reread chapter 144 in the viz media manga translation and kisame said "even if you might be able to take him on, i'm not so sure about me... he's in a different league." then itachi said "yeah... if we faced off, we might end up killing each other. at the very least, we'd hurt each other badly. ...and even if i had more backup, it probably wouldn't change the outcome." on page 9.98.26.241.111 (talk) 21:56, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I have already requested ShounenSuki the translation of that page, and gave him a link for him to compare with what was said in the anime. He told me once that generally, Viz does a good job in translating dialogue, but not such a great job at translating the names of things, such as various techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:40, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

what does viz mistranslating on various techniques have to do with this? but yes i'd like to know what shounensuki's translation is. i just wanted to say that the manga does talk about the stalemate even though i was a little late.98.26.241.111 (talk) 21:44, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

And there at the end of the confrontaion with jiraya kisame states itachi could of beaten him and itachi changes the conversation. you have to realize itachi entire role that kishi is protraying he wants to protect the village not destroy it so he would of stated anything to sway kisame from battle with jiraya the statement had nothing to do with jiraya strength because itachi has never fought him. ita all in the context of itachis character.Jodyjoe0 (talk) 22:11, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

in the viz translation chapter 148 page 7. kisame says "why did we have to retreat...? ...with your eye power..." and itachi then said "...there's no need to be impatient... none. ...besides which, i must also... rest my body in one place for the foreseeable future. for not only tsukuyomi, the nightmare realm... but i was forced to use the amaterasu as well..." as it clearly states using the tsukuyomi or amaterasu uses up alot of chakra especialy using both. and as we know itachi has low stamina which equals low chakra reserves. besides which itachi looked fatigued when saying it in both the manga and anime. and jiraiya is strong itachi would half to use high level techniques when fighting him. he already used too much chakra that day even if he wanted to he wouldn't have been able to do much. also to note he already fought kurenai, kakashi, sasuke, and by extension asuma and guy, which are all very powerful shinobi in their onwn rite (not as powerful as itachi though, but still) and adding jiraiya on top of that along with itachi's earlier comment that even with kisame jiraiya would most likley match him, itachi would be at a large disadvantage.98.26.241.111 (talk) 22:34, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

You commented on the viz media translation, I commented on what I heard about its quality, just that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:21, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

i understand.98.26.241.111 (talk) 22:36, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

so you both agree that what has been writen about itachi"s limitations regarding jiraya is incorrect?

at least that what it sounds like. Jodyjoe0 (talk) 23:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Not yet. We're still waiting for ShounenSuki's translation, which comes directly from the original Japanese. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:36, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

no jodyjoe im not agreeing with you, though i myself am a fan of itachi i do not beleive anyone here downsized itachi's abilities. but what omnibender said were still waiting for shounensuki's translation.98.26.241.111 (talk) 00:40, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Look every editor of this wiki agree's that Itachi's one the most powerfull and skilled ninja of the series...that being said he did have flaws in his fighting style like other ninjas and he was not undefeatable (His low stamina and that his arsenal lacked some versatility and that his top 3 jutsu took over 30% of his chakra each). And given the fact that he was refering to Jiraiya's abilities it's not that much of a long shot as a statement. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:01, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

i completley agree with you.98.26.241.111 (talk) 01:06, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

ITS NOT ABOUT AGREEING WITH ME. its about misinformation the VIZ trans seems to agree with me....lets see what ShounenSuki's translation says. Jodyjoe0 (talk) 04:30, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

yes lets. and you don't half to use all caps.98.26.241.111 (talk) 04:40, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

i said i was agreeing with darksusanoo.98.26.241.111 (talk) 04:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

So, from the looks of it, Itachi and Kisame do consider Jiraiya to be superior. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:13, August 7, 2011 (UTC)

Whoa... how can all the translations miss(translate) this? I mean it's one thing to say that the best Itachi could do against Jiraiya is a stalemate, but saying that Jiraiya may be a match for Itachi and Kisame is another. They skipped about three panels worth of conversation. I can't believe the Anime was actually more cannon than the Manga itself. Well, alright, i guess it's clear now, though i still find this praising of Jiraiya a bit too much... 95.42.181.75 (talk) 00:34, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I fail to see how Kishimoto's own praise of his character is "a bit much"...--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:23, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ignore it just a upset fan of a certain character.Umishiru (talk) 01:27, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I can tell fanboy editors when i see them...give me a break so jiraya in base(without HM)is as strong as both itachi and kisame at the same time?

and logic does not previl? nobody sees how this IS impossible? THE SAME TIME IN BASE? so never mind kisame saying itachi would be able to beat him? thats not a hint? never mind itachis role in protecting the village?

ON SECOND THOUGHT never mind i geuss since this is a place for fans the editor can praise there fav charcaters as much as they want.(Cerez,Umishiru,Omnibender)

BUT one last question since jiraya is on par wiith BOTH itachi and kisame why is kiasme left out of the statment and doesnt this mean jiraya is stronger then itachi why do you guys stop at limations? itachi has never even faced jiraya66.229.47.197 (talk) 06:41, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

1) Please prove that I have ever unfairly edited Itachi's article to make him look weaker than he is or Jiraiya's to make him look stronger than he is.

2)A) I just went over both articles, both list negatives that are supported by the manga, Itachi admitted to not being stronger as proved through the translations, and was getting weaker due to a disease besides the downsides of his MS and a smaller pool.

B)Jiraiya never mastered Sage jutsu, and wasn't good at Genjutsu thus needed outside help to cast one.

C)Itachi's negatives praise him more as they show despite his negatives he matches Jiraiya, shows great masterly under such negatives and has shown more resourcefulness/prepareness if you read their articles.

D)Overall its actuality's Itachi's article that is better. It seems to me your a Itachi fan who is upset that someone could be stronger than him. Get over it and if your so mad about it write a letter or something to Kishi or go post angry posts on a forum(this is not a forum).

4)Fanboy editors? Now your just getting out of hand and upset.If you have nothing to add beyond accusing others as fanboys and arguing against the manga then please move on.Umishiru (talk) 07:14, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Im not mad and if i ma it is at the possiblity of this place being considered crediable.

If kishis words were god to you then why isnt it added that only a sharingan user can beat itachi? GTFO YOUR JUST A FANBOY trying to play editor.

but whatever like i said this just a place where fans write up favorable articles about there fav charcaters I GET THAT NOW so just keep typing your BS.

yea right nice fanfic so now jiraya in base without sage mode> itachi and kisame both at the same time?ONCE AGAIN GTFOH.66.229.47.197 (talk) 07:16, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

1)And what your more credible?

2)Can you link me to the chapter and page where that was said? And have you actually read the manga? Consider the fight that is going on now and his jutsu being trumped by Killer Bee. Kishi has changed a lot and has done retcon since that fight in pt.1. We go by what is in the manga, as said before Itachi admitted to a stalemate with Jiraiya, the databook stats support this, also there is a such thing as boasting as none of the ninja he was facing at the time could beat him and as Madara said the purpose of his visit was to warn the village about him. Lets just say for a second that he was lying despite the databook backing of his statement, how do we know he wasn't boasting back then both statements were made in the same arc anyway.

3)No your just being unreasonable please point out any sentence in either section that are bs beyond what your harping about,(the stalemate statement).

4)Sigh sounds like your just mad because your character isn't as strong in teh canon as he is in your mind. Sorry we go by the manga and databooks which come from Kishi himself, not from the angry posts of some disgruntled fan.Umishiru (talk) 07:26, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Futher more to clear this non-sense up orochimaru beat jiraya twice so the idea of itachi is lucky to match jiraya is a joke and shows your fanboy because itachi beat orochimaru with ease twice.

Itachi only said those thing about jiraya to aviod a large scale battle(somthing that he said he was trying to do) because he was on the leafs side as the manga stated

And kisame says itachi would beat jiraya so in the end your using old statments and flawed logic to place a charcater on a level where he is not.

jiraya could not even face animal realm in base and now he trumps arubly the most powerful duo in the manga?clearly you people dont even read the manga you just hear about char pick you fav and write!

GOOD FANFIC GTFOH sound like a jiraya fanboy became editor!66.229.47.197 (talk) 07:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

1) Jiraiya was younger than he was now when he first face Oro and probably weaker than his older modern self. If you are talking about the fight back in the Tsunade arc as well, remember his chakra control was being messed up by the poison Tsunade gave him.

2) Going by your logic if Itachi was lying about the stalemate with Jiraiya then what else is he lying about? Which therefore means everything he saids should be taken with a grain of salt. What do we have next to compare? Databook which overall lists their abilities as a stalemate.

3) Please read the battle, Jiraiya was facing an opponent with way different abilities than what Itachi was sporting, plus Nagato admitted that if Jiraiya knew about the 6 bodies from the start he would have lost. Please prove that I have favored one character over another in terms of ability section, please link me to those edits.Umishiru (talk) 07:46, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Listen im not going to Argue any more because its clear your a jirayatard and as big as they come i dont need to prove anything more.

because you thinking jiraya>itach and kisame both together regardless of if he has HM or not is seriously enough edvidence to prove your a biased tard/editor with no crediableity what so ever...and its enough to show that nobody should be reading your article that you edit its really enough to discredit the site well maybe not the whole site but enough respect will drop rep will be ruined

your no better then the hardcore fanboys on narutoforums in fact i bet your one of them its disgraceful that your even editor at the place thats supposed to info on everything naruto but i geuss any random fanboy can becomce a editor if you got the job not that big of a deal i geuss oh well.

Might as well call it Narutardopedia!

GOODAY SIR.66.229.47.197 (talk) 08:15, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

1)So your accusing me of being a jiraiya fanboy without any proof. Nice.

2)A)What are you talking about, have you have seen my edits? The edits I made Itachi expanded his abilities section and I add a negative to Jiraya's ability section because both are supported by the manga not some angry fan post.

B) I did not even create the Jiraya and Itachi articles and most of the stuff comes from other editors.

3) Fanboy? You never proved that I was a fanboy of anything. I asked you for proof of such claims and you have turned up nothing and only dug in deeper with your argument without any proof whatsoever by just insulting others. Yes anyone can become a editor as long as they make constructive edits that do not go against the official material.

4) I guess your done then. Thank you. The next time you come to the site please talk about something important or make constructive edits and not insulting others who don't agree with you, otherwise you are wasting everyones time.

5)Good day to you sir also.Umishiru (talk) 08:23, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

So uhm, I got lost somewhere after my last comment because of all the tirades and lulz. But I will say one thing, Narutopedia is probably the most objective, non-biased site you'll even find to represent information on the Naruto series. I'll admit to being a fanboy and i'm sure everybody has their favourite character(s) (I for one think everyone is awesome except Ebisu >.>) but it's for that reason why there are more than one editors on the wikia that always help each other to state facts from a non-biased standpoint, that's what I like about this place.

Now as it pertains to Jiraiya, we got a translation directly from our resident translator, whom we have the utmost faith in. If Kishimoto wants to heap praises on his own character why should that not be represented? No one said that Jiraiya without Sage Mode could defeat Itachi and Kisame, but the two men did say they had no hope of winning.--Cerez365™ 11:02, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Even if it has been said, one has to use some degree of... well, lacking a better word, i would say "logic", to deduce things. There is no way both Itachi and Kisame at the same time will "have no hope of winning" against Jiraiya. The best Itachi could do against Jiraiya is a stalemate... that has already been estimated (somewhat further proven, by their equal Databook stats). Kisame is probably weaker than Jiraiya... that is also fact. But Jiraiya cannot defeat Itachi+Kisame... 95.43.76.85 (talk) 19:19, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * So we're supposed to refute the mangaka's own words, in favour of personal bias "logic"?--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 19:22, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

If i had to take everything mangaka says for truth, then i guess only a Sharingan user can defeat another Sharingan user, meaning Jiraiya stands no chance against Itachi, which isn't the case. "Personal bias", eh? So somehow, Itachi is equal to Jiraiya, or at least close to his power... but at the same time, Itachi+Kisame "have no hope of winning"... *facepalm*

Jiraiya was yet to be seen in battle, at that time... i remember when Tsunade was about to be introduced, she was said to be the strongest Kunoichi ever, although i can think of at least two Kunoichi who are stronger than her. Hiruzen feared that no one in the leaf could stop Orochimaru, even though he pwned him, Hashirama and Tobirama, in the end. What i'm trying to say is, that i think Kishimoto tends to overhype soon-to-be introduced/seen in battle characters, just so we can be aware of their power, without actually showing any backup for it (not then, at least). Believe what you want, but you can't just blindly take everything that is said for truth, even though it contradicts with something that was also stated earlier/later on... 95.43.76.85 (talk) 19:46, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Please show me where it is said that only a Sharingan user can defeat another, because that was only said for Dust Release. The closest thing to that is only a Sharingan can counter another.
 * I won't even comment on the Tsunade bit because that'd just be speculation.
 * Hiruzen died and Orochimaru's ambitions were halted not stopped by him.
 * They're Kishimoto's characters and if it's all the same to you we'd rather take his words over your own. You seem to be looking to make concessions for whatever personal fanboy reasons. The information as we get it will always be represented as we get it and no other way. --Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 19:57, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

I am guessing you are from Onemanga since there is a big Jiraiya/Itachi discussion going on. We go by what is in the manga not what you and your cohorts decide to believe on that forum. If you want a site full of fan speculation then go to the Naruto Fanon Wiki or make your own. This isn't onemanga's personal speculation wiki. Unless you have manga or databook proof proving your right please go away as there are more pressing matters than your need for Itachi to be elevated to a higher level than needed. I expanded Itachi's ability article and added a negative to Jiraiya's ability section, Shoun provided a translation that pretty much resolves that whole stalemate statement issue. If you've come to no more than try to get us to add in onemanga speculation then it won't work.Umishiru (talk) 19:59, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * It was said at the time Madara was explaining to Sasuke the truth behind the Uchiha clan massacre. At one point, Madara mentioned that the higher-ups knew that "only a Sharingan user is a match for another Sharingan user", and that is precisely why they decided to make Itachi slaughter them. I'm sorry i can't provide a precise chapter, but i simply don't want to look for it
 * Fine..
 * When Hiruzen began showing his concern of Orochimaru's power, i thought that it was going to be a one-on-one fight. But it was basicly carried out by Shodaime and Nidaime, not Orochimaru. He did not show those abilities he was so feared of, he simply summoned two people to fight for him. In the Manga, it's even worse, because there Orochimaru summoned the Hokages right out the box, without first fighting with Hirzen a bit, which was added in the Anime. Hiruzen would have crushed Orochimaru without his Edo Tensei, but Kishimoto had to somehow defend what was previously stated by him...
 * Please don't call me a fanboy, it makes you look really banal with that sort of... "insult", which generally goes around Narutopedia, when someone does not know what else to add. I'm not being a fanboy, if accusing Kishimoto of contradicting his own statements is fanboyism, then yes, i am a fanboy. You didn't say anything about how if Itachi is equal to Jiraiya, both Itachi and Kisame don't stand a chance against him, but i kinda get why...

Umishiru, i'm not from Onemanga, i honestly thought that site was closed, because they couldn't provide Manga anymore, and all of their database got deleted. Huh... well, anyway, i don't get what everyone is accusing me in. I don't know who added the line: "he was aware of his limitations, given his praise of Jiraiya, saying the best he could do against him was a stalemate", but we now know it is true, because ShounenSuki proved it, so it should stay. No one is saying otherwise...

What i don't consider truth is another thing, which i already explained... 95.43.76.85 (talk) 20:38, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

1) Since you don't have proof then you have nothing to back up your statement. I doubt a sharingan user is invincible, thus the method of beating a sharingan user as mentioned by Chiyo. Itachi was the top ninja of his clan, and as pointed out he used Madara's assistance in the massacre not to mention Danzo was present as well. Plus Hashirama beat Madara putting a big hole in your speculation.

2)Personal opinion, we go back what is shown and said not what people speculate on. I have my own opinion concerning Oroichimaru and Hiruzen but I don't let it bleed into the articles.

3)I never called you a fanboy that was Cerez. Kishi is the creator and writer of Naruto, therefore what he writes overrides anyone's opinion on the matter. He has done more questionable things than simply make Itachi equal to Jiraiya, but because its HIS work not yours, mine, or the sites, what he saids goes. Don't like it? Tough cookies.

4) Since we are bringing up liars and questionable statements, since Madara has lied on a big issue already its safe to say that anything he saids should be taken with a grain of salt.

5) Can you provide proof he wasn't aware of his limitations? Or you simply don't want to provide proof.

6) In this site you have to provide proof of what your trying to prove otherwise it is no more than just speculation, that is what keeps speculation out of the site.Umishiru (talk) 22:30, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

ok this whole discussion just turned into an argument that is taking up too much space on this page. shounensuki already translated the whole stalemate statement thingy, it should have ended at that but no, if you wanna argue do it on some forum. we already have proof of kisame/ itachi vs. jiraiya stalemate thing and hiruzen only lost cause he was to old and conpared to his younger self weak, now i admit i am alittle biased towards tsunade so i aint gonna talk about that, and kishi has the rite to to do whatever the hell he wants with his manga and just cause someones fav. charector turns ot to not be as strong as they want they get pissy and go on a rant, which i personaly think is kinda petty. now would this discussion please end its unecisary and unwanted, so stop this pety argueing and grow up. and like my mother used to say if you anit got nuthin nice to say shut the hell up.98.26.241.111 (talk) 23:15, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

oh and im not calling umishiru or cerez petty im calling 95437685 and 6622947197 petty :).98.26.241.111 (talk) 23:20, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Umishiru, those points weren't adressed at you, so why even bother answering? I'll just adress your first point, for you to learn to read, before posting. I'll quote myself from earlier: If i had to take everything mangaka says for truth, then i guess only a Sharingan user can defeat another Sharingan user, meaning Jiraiya stands no chance against Itachi, which isn't the case. I assume you thought i really think Sharingan users to be invincible, which goes to show that you really don't read...

All i wanted from the start was to be explained this: if Itachi is equal to, or at least close to Jiraiya, in terms of power, then how does Itachi+Kisame have "no hope of winning", as Cerez puts it. I asked it as nicely as i could, but he decided to be a tough guy about it, and went ahead with some "clever" responce. Then he called me a fanboy, for no obvious reason. Then you come along, stating that everything that is written here is based on Manga, and what Kishimoto says. Alright, i agreed a long time ago, when Shounen provided the translation, that Itachi is aware of his limitations, and that the best he could do against Jiraiya is a stalemate. But no one answered my question, just goes on being a dick about it. Fine... 95.43.76.85 (talk) 02:05, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Then ask Kishi because it was Itachi who said with the addition of Kisame there wouldn't be a difference in outcome not us.Plus Kisame showed doubt before Itachi even chimed in. Your questioning the manga, in that case go ask Kishi not us, we don't write Naruto or make any decisions about what goes in it, Kishi does that. If you have nothing to add other than angst then please don't add anything at all.Umishiru (talk) 03:12, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

This entire section has outlived its purpose. Let it die. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:26, August 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah we can't just remove facts even if it will look unimpressive... --Ilnarutoanime 09:38, August 10, 2011 (UTC)