Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34656247-20181008062436/@comment-6769189-20181014044056

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero

you are literally focusing on lexical choices. when a user creates a clone, there are two shadow clones, one is the orignial, one is the decoy. why is this hard to understand? Thats not how shadow clones work. One is the original. One is the clone. Thw original will never be a shadow clone.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol no, except kurenai and asuma would have seen itachi coming out of the water from behind kakashi. they literally would have seen him get up out of the water. That didn't happen. Asuma was fighting Kisame he wouldnt have seen anything.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

kurenai simply saw itachi appear behind kakashi, and called it jutsu speed. Except Kurenai was wrong. She believed the clone was behind Kakashi but thisnt the case Kakashi corrected her while saving her from the explosion.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Your substiution counter doesn't add up, because we have literally seen kakashi swap places with a naruto clone in an instant. A clone that was in reach of himself. He didnt run circles around Naruto to do it like you suggest Itachi did.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Subsitution according to you is high speed movement used to dupe both the reader and some of the combatants. According to the manga it is highspeed movement. Substitution was explained back in chapter 6

CombatIQmatters wrote:

kakashi could track itachi's substitution because he has a sharingan, it's that simple. Itachi spawned the clone behind kakashi and stabbed kakashi's water clone in the back. then when kakashi was swimming under water he substituted. It's that simple. kurenai simply missed the substitution. it's too fast for her to see. Except we know the Itachi standing near Kurenai never moved. There are no ripples below his feet.

But to further add on no one ever stated that Itachi used substitution. Itachi told Kurenai that the one near her was a clone not that he switched out or anything of the sort.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Your theory still doesn't make sense. According to you, shadow clones form next to the user. so where was that shadow clone? What are you talking about?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

where was the real itachi? when did itachi jump into the water? Chilling somewhere observing.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

when did he do this without any noticing? When he kicked Kurenai. It blows my mind that you think he is less likely to be seen pulling a substitution in front Kakashi and Kurenai's faces than creating a shadow clone and sending it out while Kurenai was recovering after being kicked 30 feet away.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

There is literally only one panel of time between kurenai being tossed into the water and itachi appearing next to her, and then kakashi appearing next to them Thwre are 2 panels and there is enough tume between 2 panels to show kurenai travel at least 10 feet before landing.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

yet I'm supposed to believe kakashi didn't see this, when he was obviously watching everything go down from a distance before he got close. Ive read multiple translations of this chapter. Some say he was watching. Some dont. The official dub says he wasnt. Dont know what the official translation of the manga says.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

You are trapped at this point the way I am currently seeing it. either concede to my theory that he spawned the clone and substituted with it, or admit itachi is extremely skilled in deceiving the people around him and swapping himself out with clones in short intervals of time. either way, it's a concession. Itachi is getting behind naraka. my underwater point was to debunk the idea that kakashi couldn't see kakashi's substitution while he was swimming underneath him. Trapped? Pfft right. You have no evidence to back your claim that is more implausible than you view mine to be. You are inserting techniques and tactics where there is no evidence or confirmation.

I dont have to concede anything. The undisturbed water under both Itachi and his clones feet confirm that neither one moved, therefore no substitution.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol no, except we see itachi intercepting kabuto's running speed TWICE. It's like you are purely relying on headcanon at this point for whatever reason. I can't fathom why. Oh look chapter 581 pg 7. Itachi tracks kabuto's running speed. itachi dashes away from sasuke, meeting kabuto half way. blocks kabuto's chakra scapel. then they both jump away. Where was kabuto's speed blitz then exactly? U mean page 17? Half way? Where is your distance marker? There is no way to establish the starting point of either character upon their meeting.

Where was Itachi's blitz? Since hes sooooo fast?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Oh look chapter 586 pg 14. itachi does the same thing again. You mean when Kabuto was trapped in Izanami?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

You literally resort to one panel where itachi was caught off guard. he completely let his guard down, the proof is that he turned off susano'o. At that point, even konohamaru could have killed him with a surprise attack. I would agree with you if we didn't obviously see itachi reacting to and matching kabuto's speed multiple times. , You resort to panels where Kabuto is distracted and misdirected and he managed to not take a major hit as well as get away. Itachi on the other hand didnt avoid the hit AT ALL and couldt react to a second swing coming.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

The reason itachi didn't do a simple kick is because kabuto isn't guaranteed to do the same attack or reaction twice. Kabuto is guarenteed to react to the crows the exact same way the second time either. >.>