Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-36019309-20190114073523/@comment-31338621-20190206034329

AsianReaper wrote:

What do you mean as far as it's known? Itachi interacted with his victims in Tsukuyomi, showing he's in there with them. So it's a function of the technique for him to actively shape their experience. You your self agreed earlier when I said Itachi was actively shaping their experiences. Backtracking? I didn't say Itachi was actively controlling Sasuke senses, just that he was controlling his senses. You really think Zetsu would only recognize by the user getting knocked out when that's what Kakashi does with Genjutsu Sharingan? In fact, Itachi and Kisame were surprised Kakashi was even conscious after Tsukuyomi at all. Here's the kicker though:

If that's your argument, how did Zetsu know that Itachi used Izanagi if Sasuke didn't even pass out?

There's absolutely no reason to disbelieve Zetsu, there's no hinting that Zetsu was misinformed. IT just doesn't fit your narrative so you're trying to say Zetsu couldn't recognize it, when Black Zetsu is like the leading authority on everything in the Shinobi world cus he's seen it all.

Itachi praised him for the analysis because like I said, It legitimately didn't matter if they actually could break each other out of Tsukuyomi, it's be over before they could. Only the victim has a shot at breaking out, and only if they're Uchiha. Again, I have no idea where you're figuring that Kakashi meant if Chiyo could break out on her own. There's absolutely no reason for him to believe that; He himself, a genjutsu expert and a SHaringan expert, could not break out. And Itachi said that only Uchiha could break out. Where would Kakashi get the idea that anyone else could break out?

I didn't say he had to be knocked though, just that it may be one of the ways he finds out. Zetsu might have been able to tell that Sasuke was in Tsukuyomi due to the sweat on his face, him gasping for air and him falling down.

Black Zetsu may have a lot of knowlege, but that doesn't mean we should take everything he says at face value, otherwise Itachi is invincible due his spiritual weapons. Meaning he can beat Pain or Tobi by himself.

Look below

Look, this was your argument. Where does it look like Kakashi implies that those with the ability to break the Genjutsu on themselves wouldn't have time? He's saying that in the context of their group, even those who could break the Genjutsu wouldn't have time. He's saying the partner method won't work. Kakashi himself couldn't have any clue whether or not it would've been useless if the victim could break out. He's never broken out and he's never seen anyone break out. It's the fact that he says "it has you instantly, it has nothing to do with whether or not they can break genjutsu." If he wanted to say those methods that Chiyo knew wouldn't work, he could just said "His ocular jutsu has you instantly, those methods won't work." or something of the sort, he said a blanket statement about how it doesn't matter if you can break genjutsu.