Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34656247-20181008062436/@comment-34194151-20181011233653

@Legionzero Lol no black Zetsu specifically said lightning from the sky is unevadeable. Sasuke said he is simply guiding the lightning. It was natural lightning, that much was made clear. Natural lightning reaches the ground in 1/1000th of the second. No character alive at that point in the manga could dodge the technique bar maybe V2 Ayy. the only hope is to mentally react and use a shield, like itachi did.

Nagato could see the blade. and he is definitely far enough from the smoke. there is several feet of ground between him and the outer edge of the decaying smokecreen. His mobility issue isn't in the arms, so I don't see a counter-argument from you. Nagato used shinra tensi on kakashi when kakashi came out of the ground without any arm movement, so debunked. he couldn't react, its's really that simple honestly. you are pretty much have resorted to claiming that he can't see the blade, which is ridiculous. there is no evidence of that. he is looking right at the blade.

The naruto point still stands. if shadow clones worked the way you claimed then all the clones would be next to naruto and would form a straight horizontal line if you looked down at them from above. not forming a circle around his opponent. he can control where the clones form in space. I already showed you itachi forming a clone behind his opponent and then you used more speculation. You're telling me that after itachi kicked kurenai, he disappeared from everyone's sight without them noticing and left a clone in his place in the space of a single panel and then somehow got underwater without anyone noticing? great. since itachi has proven he knows how to exploit the blindspots of the rinnegan shared vision, he does whatever he did to kakashi, kurenai, guy and asuma, and gets his clone behind the pains. same result.

Still don't see evidence that Pain arc kakashi is magically faster than itachi now, so moving on.

Lol no, killer bee used all 7 swords and ran at itachi. itachi dodged all of his attacks and even jumped so fast he appeared on nagato's bird. Killer bee is slower. everyone in that fight was arguably holding back against each other, so how does that prove anything.

Except sasuke showed concern when itachi got stabbed. Even if itachi did what you claimed, he moved faster than EMS sasuke could percieve. he stabbed kabuto's horn off from behind. All I see you proving is that itachi has managed to bunshinfeint/substiution feint his opponents and get behind them on more than one occcasion. Itachi pulling that against a perfect sage proves his speed. you also didn't prove that he made a crow clone. sasuke would have seen it and wouldn't be concerned. That wasn't even the only time itachi pulled that feint off against kabuto.

everyone fights at lower efficiency as they lose stamina. Itachi fired more than one amaterasu. you can clearly see he lit up the area around the uchiha hideout with the flames. Rereading chapter 391 might help you see that. all techniques use chakra, so crow clones split his stamina. they may not cut it in half but they aren't free either.

All I ever said is that Itachi throws as much as yakasa matagama as it takes for the core to bust, and then finishes off nagato the same way he did in the canon Whether or not he could do it or not before running out of stamina is kishimoto's decision, so that can go either way. So I don't see the point of the chibaku tensei discussion in either case. Itachi has already shown he can one-shot nagato, that is enough proof for me that he would be able to win. genjutsu+ totsuka blade combo one shots. the genjutsu serves as the "smokescreen", nagato breaking the genjutsu serves as the smokescreen clearing, and then the blade one shots him. the end.

Your scenario has sound logic, but the timing and logistics are completely off. Nagato would only have time to use one summoning jutsu in the time it takes for itachi to form yata mirror and susano'o. The totsuka blade isn't instant, but it definitely only needs no more than a second to land. nagato's reflexes aren't good enough. Nagato has 3-4 pains standing one behind the other, just how he sets up the formation.So, the rhino/dog or whatever runs at itachi. The pains are still standing in the same place. they like using formations when they are all together, that's nagato's fighting style. So, itachi thrusts the blade forward. The blade penetrates through` the dog or rhino, it penetrates the preta path standing behind it, penetrates the animal path standing behind him, penetrates the human path standing behind it, none of them can react because nagato can't react, especially because they will be simultaneously distracted by a clone being behind naraka. also, you forget that summoning jutsu creates a small smoke screen, and the large summons often kick up some dust as well. that makes any chance they have of seeing the blade go down to below zero. Itachi overlays attacks. naraka path is taken out by itachi's crow clone or shadow clone, doesn't matter which one he uses, so this whole shadow clone crippling itachi is irrelevant. the crow clones basically do the function of shadow clones at a lower cost. Just like that, 4 pains are already dead. they all get sealed, and/or instantly die from being stabbed by a weapon that powerful anyway. There is only two pains left.. If anyone is getting behind the other, it's itachi getting behind pain. Whatever two pains remain would be taken out without much issue, because at the end of the day they can't react to itachi's trump card. Itachi is free to go about finishing them in a number of ways. I meant that sick itachi wasn't at full health when he started coughing off blood and panting and kneeling. He used multiple genjutsu, multiple amaterasu, a tsykuyomi, 3 clones before that happened, and even then he was still able to recover and continue fighting. how is he starting off the fight in that condition against pain? the only way pain stands a chance is if he starts out the fight without using formations, which is out of character, he needs his formations in order to protect naraka. he simply has a bad matchup against itachi. pain has a better shot of winning if he fought itachi under the same circumstances in which he fought jiraiya, where he had other pains hiding in wait and used guerilla tactics. but with all 6 pains out in the open it's too easy for itachi to take advantage of him. Your scenario would work if 4 the pains didn't die off the cuff.

kakashi could fight without any issue. Sure, nagato outplayed him, but kakashi was still casting techniques, using doton, using raikiri, throwing kunais at pain, etc. you still haven't explained where the huge blood stain on his head came from, clearly showing pain injured him and he sufffered blood loss. his inability to move could be attributed to both his dwindling reserves and his injuries. Kakashi clearly stated he couldn't make it in time to finish deva with raikiri, implying that deva used almighty push. the ashura path could have been higher in the air. You underestimate free fall speed. At that height, he could easily achieve a free fall speed capable of intercepting kakashi's raikiri. it's obvious he jumped high in the air, otherwise kakashi, choji, and chouza would have seen him coming. That was more of a surprise attack and cunning. an interception feat. I would agree with you if the were weren't clear vertical movement lines on asura. You cannot rule out the possibility that he was higher in the air on page 10, above kakashi's field of vision.