Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34656247-20181109094030

LoneNinja wrote: @Jason Like I said. The anime is canon when it comes to portrayals to the Manga. Narutopedia:Canon policy <- You can say it's anime all you want, but this is clear. You don't have to accept that it's canon but it is according to this. Unless you have evidence where Totsuka begins it's movements, this is what I'm abiding by. K-canon is listed as the highest tier of canon for Naruto, but yet you'll go with A-canon? i wonder why. I provided the example with Juubi Obito but that wasn't even touched upon, can't the totsuka be as fast as him? i guess you won't accept that.

Also, I definitely can use feet per second because i know the distance in this case does not exceed 1000 feet. You can clearly see the distance between Sasuke and Itachi before Orochimaru takes over, and that is nowhere near 1000 feet. I can also see that both the snakes and susanoo do not exceed a thousand feet (Itachi's armored Susanoo is around the same size as Sasuke's. Sasuke's full body Susanoo is around the size of a tailed beast like Kurama. Kurama is around the size of Shukaku. Shukaku is around the size of Gamabunta. Gamabunta is only 55 feet.) So with that I can determine that Totsuka does not move at the speed of sound or it would hit Orochimaru faster than a single word can even be heard. So if the distance doesn't exceed 1k feet why are you even calculating it using feet per sec? 1k feet wasn't even it's destination length.

Your evidence: A blade hit an uncaring man, with no maneuverability of his legs, covered in slime, not in any body thus not at full strength since it's stated he requires a host.

Mine: Distance between the targets. Sound traveling faster than the blade since words are formed before the interruption takes place in the Manga. How do you know that the words are formed before the blade strike and not after? (in the manga) the blade was already through him after all..... Don't ignore Nagato, he had a good distance to dodge, see the distance between the smokescreen created and that of Nagato. And i suppose you're gonna bring in the he was crippled bs, but nah he clearly aged himself down and gained a younger body, even before that he suddenly appears behind of killer bee and slipped towards Naruto, if he was crippled would he had been able to even do those? nopeeeee...Itachi had to carry him before afterall. Also lets look at another similar scene, but first it can be agreed that Nagato>>>>preta path/tendo/any path. Now to the scene, In the naruto vs pein battle, at one point Naruto created a smokescreen and then launched out a fake rasenshuriken (wwas a transformation..which still behaved like the real rasenshuriken in terms out sound released and speed ) the preta path was able to engage and absorb that fast incoming attack and all he had to do was lift his arms up to absorb it....Nagato couldn't that to the totsuka blade and in both scenes the similarities is near accurate even the distance between the smokescreen and the characters are similar.Nagato being crippled has nothing to -(if you're gonna bring this up) do with his hand movement becuase as we all know, his legs suffered the damage....boi got totsukablitzed

aNy whooo's the blade is fast is my opinion..susanoo literally has two arms to thrust the blade smh

Nashikeine wrote: Kakuzu always did that. Itachi had geniune reasons to kill Orochimaru. i mean, Orochimaru was after his eyes and if he could not take it off him than he would go to the other pair of Sharingan eyes, and the only other Uchiha alive was Sasuke, who Itachi was protecting all along. Itachi would never allow harm on Sasuke, who was only a child back then. he clearly would go for the kill. so in that split second where Itachi went for the kill, Orochimaru broke the Genjutsu, but was not fast enough to react to take no damage. that is why only his arm was cut off. Nope, he was about to break the genjutsu using hand seals but that's where he lost his arm...he never got to break the genjutsu. Besides itachi was mentioning controlling you or kill you to orochimaru. Meaning he has not yet decided what to do with him.

other important thing to take off of it is the fact that later in his fight with 4tailed Naruto we learn that even being bisected in two doesnt do any damage to Orochimaru. he simply reattaches his body back. or if the damage is to severe he can use the Body Shedding Jutsu and come out undamaged. he did nothing here. Sound true, but can he even do it when damaged under the influence of genjutsu....nope.The jutsu is not automatic.

so it does not give Itachi any victory. Nope, it means he was underestimating itachi and got his ass handed to him for that...usually the last man standing is announced as the victor..

Also in that fight Orochimaru wasnt fully reformed. the last body he had taken over had completely given away and he had yet to take over Sasuke's body. How do sannin's fight? mostly with their summonings, and they just sit back and watch..now this guy was doing just that but only had a much stronger summoning than Manda soo......

Itachi without MS is a solid elite Jonin level shinobi. he probably ranks over Kakashi (not the war arc or later one). So goes for every uchiha...i mean imagine Obito without Sharingan, no sharingan no kamui...oh shit that's bad for him.

the problem with Itachi is that outside of MS skills he simply lacks power. i mean, outside of MS skills, his greatest ninjutsu are at best C-rank in nature. never has he shown any jutsu of higher level and if put against a solid shinobi with the same jutsu he loses the battle. Hebi Sasuke overpowered Itachi's Fireball with his own. Are you referring to the sick ,near dead ,already exhausted itachi's fireball?

Yeah he reversed the Genjustu of Kurenai, but really what did it do to her. all she did was bite her lips and she was free of it. it took no toll on her. It was like kurenai was in her own genjutsu, the one she imagined...it's like being in your own home. It did leave her open to attacks.

in Shippuden Itachi caught Kakashi clone in a Genjutsu and Kakashi too shrugged it off. I know you guys will say that Itachi had only 30% of his strength then, but a reminder that a Kage Bunshin divides Chakra equally. Kakashi clone was at 50%. now it is time and again state that Kakashi is not great in terms of CHakra reserves (in elite levels i would say), while Itachi being an Uchiha was clearly born with higher Chakra reserves. Um clones are not affected by genjutsu. Which is why it didn't even go poof afterwards. And what are you saying? itachi has low reserves maybe due to being sick or restrained by plot.

In Naruto universe most elite shinobi come from clans and Uchiha is the oldest there is. So that 30% Itachi is about as good as 50% Kakashi and yet he could not keep him in Genjutsu. also the fact that he needed to use Tsukuyomi during the war on Sasuke while Sasuke used a generic Genjutsu to help break each other from a Sage powered Tayuya Genjutsu means that his non MS Genjutsu arent really that powerful. Oh wow, what a logic..so right now tsukuyomi becomes a fodder move, and sasuke's basic genjutsu is higher. Well Obito and Danzo seems to disagree. And i think everyone else will.

Yes, during the war it is said that Itachi's Genjutsu prowess is one of the best, but it is a statement that more or less applies to the 95% of normal shinobi. the likes of Kakashi sit in the 5% elite and Orochimaru could even be said to sit in the 2% super elite of shinobi forces. You know they were referring to all his genjutsu..that includes tsukuyomi, so your super elite and below will still get fodderized....oh i forgot you see tsukuyomi as a fodder move.

and just to be very clear Itachi's greatest Genjutsu feats is against Naruto and Diedera. I dont think i need to say anything for Naruto, but for Diedera i will have to give my clarification. and as far i see Diedera was just like Naruto, a shinobi pants at Genjutsu. he cannot recognize Genjutsu and has no way to deal with them. i mean he failed to recognize the Genjutsu he was put in by Itachi and even after training his eyes for years still failed to recognize the Genjutsu used by Sasuke and this was a Sasuke that could not defeat Sai with a Genjutsu. I don't see how you can recognize the genjutsu if your surrounding remains the same. Sai fell on his knees dude and was perspiring heavily. Orrrrrrrr i guess you're right, sasuke's basic genjutsu is greater than tsukuyomi but still could'nt defeat sai. Yeah,,,,

Itachi's so called speed at casting Jutsu may put him over elite Jonin, but Orochimaru is a Kage level shinobi. If Kakashi could see through Itachi's diversions and speed cast and Kurenai could break through Itachi's Genjutsu then Orochimaru can do all that. he is far superior to both Kakashi and Kurenai. What tier do you think itachi is in? Orochimaru was even in Hokage tier, it's just a damn title. Sharingan couldn't see the hand seals but orochimaru would, because your reason for it being Orochimaru just has the title of sannin. Need i remind you that Orochimaru was studying jutsu's even before he left konoha but still got shit on by a 14 yr or so old itachi's genjutsu.

i understand that the small interval in which the Genjutsu paralyzes opponents Itachi can attack Orochimaru. he did so in that first encounter, but clearly failed to kill him. and after attaining the Snake form and immortality nothing Itachi can do without MS can harm Orochimaru to actually kill him.Also in that split second wehre Orochimaru is captured in the Genjutsu, his Edo could come to his support and engange Itachi. Dubunkend above. LOL and how can the edo tensei be activated without the caster even activating it? lol

You could say that in that split second of being caught in the Genjutsu Itachi can Amaterasu to burn Orochimaru. Can't happen. Just so you know, be it pre shippuden or vs Sasuke, Itachi had to build up Chakra to use MS jutsu. he always closes his eyes builds the chakra in his eyes and then uses Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi. he does it everytime even when he fires the Amaterasu one after the other. it isnt instanataneous so it isnt happening. I'm starting to think that you're 9 years old....itachi closed his eyes indeed but was also weaving signs, amaterasu doesn't need signs lel. Second part was when he needed to be clearly overpowered by the flames, which is what he was waiting for..i mean what if sasuke had stopped blowing fire midway to caster some other jutsu and bam itachi uses amatersu in that time..he'd be buring his own flames ;_;. Now thirdly we have itachi spamming amaterasu without needing to close his eyes. Edo itachi need not to close his eyes either.soooooo.......

and let us be honest, Amaterasu is doing nothing to Orochimaru. Sasuke avoided being burnt by it by using Orochimaru's Body Shedding Technique and it was clearly inferior to Orochimaru's use against 4tailed Naruto. the fact that Amaterasu burns slowly helps Orochimaru there. Slow like how it burned gyuki? i'll also state that the rate at which amaterasu burns is inconsistent. Either ways you're correct he'll just substitute from it.

Tsukuyomi on the other hand is a tricky one. it will deal significant damage to Orochimaru no doubt, but there are certain canon factors that support Orochimaru here. the fact that pre Shippuden Kakashi was still able to fight even after succumbing to Tsukuyomi clearly states that Orochimaru will have better chance out of it. Yeah Kakashi was bedridden after the use, but he was still conscious where it mattered. Next biggest thing is the fact that Hebi Sasuke broke of Tsukuyomi. I know you are wondering what am i talking. it was Sasuke who broke Tsukuyomi so how does it benefit Orochimaru. SImple. Sasuke did so by using CS2 and if you know how the CS2 works that you should clearly understand that it was Orochimaru's Senjtusu Chakra that helped Sasuke break through Tsukuyomi. I know the Sharingan played its role, but there is something that current Orochimaru has that triumphs Sharingan and is on par EMS. The Zetsu body he took over. we know how that body just skyrocketted the skills of a weakass Obito. 9 yr old confirmed...sorrry m out. You even mentioned down below the ''itachi and kisame retreating from jiraiya bs