Talk:Tailed Beast Ball

MERGE OR DELETE!
Why the heck are there seperate articles for each level of the menacing ball? MERGE OR DELETE! 74.236.92.133 (talk) 23:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, if I am correct about it's intention, it was made to follow the same properties of the category jutsu pages (such as Ninjutsu, Senjutsu, ect). That's really the only reason why this page survived the week it was made.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:05, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Jutsu
I only listed it as a Tailed Beast Skill which it is and technically, it is the Tailed Beasts Skills article that should be categorized as a jutsu type.
 * It is a jutsu type, as in a type of jutsu, not a jutsu itself, since nobody actually uses "menacing ball." Simant (talk) 22:30, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Think of this like a disambiguation page, such as Eight Trigrams or Red Secret Technique. ~SnapperTo 23:52, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

What about Tailed Beasts Skills? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Menacing Ball isn't a Tailed Beast Skill? User:Atrulean Starkiller November 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Menacing Ball is basically a subtype of Tailed Beast Skill. Tailed Beast Skill encompasses all things that are unique to the tailed beast, with Menacing Ball being subtype of the super thing. Or because...Snapper mentioned put it's basically a disambiguation.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:13, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

All right, I guess you made your point so I won't categorize it as a jutsu. User:Atrulean Starkiller November 17, 2009

Nine
I'm indifferent to combining all the menacing balls into one article, but I do think they should be split just by beast, not beast and tail-count. The demon fox, with 497 out, now has four iterations of the same thing. Overkill much? ~SnapperTo 23:33, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You know what. The hell with it. Give me one moment.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:35, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would that suffice?--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:52, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think so. Where did the name for the Four-Tailed version of this came from? I just looked through ShounenSuki's translations, and that wasn't a jutsu listed in the databook. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:54, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ultimate Ninja 4--Deva 27 (talk) 23:56, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * That explains it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:56, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not that it matters anymore anyway. I will let common sense rule the day today, giving that the only thing different is the letters/kanji/whatever before "ki Imari", the name I put here will suffice.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:58, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Following that logic, should the Two and Three Tailed beasts have their species added to the technique they use? They ones with elements in it, or should they simply be changed to "Two-Tailed Cat Menacing Ball" and "Three-Tailed Turtle Menacing Ball"? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:03, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Doesn't matter in the long run I suppose.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 00:05, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Bomb
I want to make sure that, The Translators got this Right, Is it really called Tailed beast Bomb or is it just Menacing Ball?

Come on guys it clearly says bomb in the chapter.

According to wikipedia (and they usually have correct chapter names), this chapter's name is written in kanji as 尾獣玉, which according to them translates to Tailed Beast Ball. The 尾獣 is a given, and the 玉 is the same used in Danzō's Wind Release techniques and in Sasori's Akatsuki ring. It can be translated both as "ball" and "sphere", if I'm not mistaken. I would rather use sphere, but I can live with ball. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:51, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Oh thanks for clearing that up. So the translator just used "bomb" to make it sound "cooler"?

Sort of. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Merge
Since we know the name of it now, can we simply merge all the "menacing ball" pages here? All we need is to put an infobox here and string together the information from the other pages. Also, since the Eight-Tails said this is the ultimate attack of a tailed beast, should all of them be listed as users? Not sure if that would include the Ten-Tails, but definitely one through nine. I believe Bee and Yugito should also be listed, since they were shown to willingly transform and use the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:06, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:48, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, but I wouldn't add the Ten-Tails yet. It is not really a tailed beast, after all. —ShounenSuki (talk 01:27, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Done, and redirected the other menacing ball pages here. Reply here if something isn't right. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:14, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should Naruto be placed here, Since he was able to use this Technique or Minor Version of it, In his 4/6 Tails Mode? UchihaSakudo (talk) 23:40, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nine-Tails was in control, not him, this is why before the actual name came up, only the Nine-Tails was listed as a user in the technique article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:59, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, He also Kinda did this, In his Controlled Chakra Form, He tried to use the Rasengan, but Instead it turned into a Different Version of this Technique, Even Killer Bee said, It was like the Same thing UchihaSakudo (talk) 00:11, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Similar ≠ the same and the Rasengan failed. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:14, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, You got me There, Though it was a Tailed Beast Ball Rasengan, That makes it a Rasengan and a Tailed Beast Ball, Doesn't it? Even If it Failed, He still did it UchihaSakudo (talk) 00:23, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * For a jinchūriki, I understand performing a Tailed Beast Ball as turning into the Tailed Beast while maintaining control over it and then using the technique. Eight-Tails said it itself that you can't use it if you're not fully transformed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:28, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Throwing this thought out there: All the beasts can use this, but the technique we have seen them use are descendants of this technique. Then haven't we killed jutsu pages? S im A nt 00:50, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Forgive me Simant, but I'm stupid today. uh, what?--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 00:52, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I forgot the word "if". "if the techniques we have seen them use so far". Fire/Water/Wind/Ink is not the black and white this technique describes. S im A nt 01:21, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * A none issue, in my opinion. Before Kishimoto decided to make them these, the Menacing Balls (I prefer this. Sounds more...well, Demon)where raw chakra fired. The anime simply followed suit. in my opinion, all that's changed now is that the Menacing Fire and Menacing Water Balls mixed elemental chakra with the yin-yang.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 01:30, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Simant; One's wind, Two's flames, and Three's water do not fit the definition of this ability. ~SnapperTo 02:35, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry for jumping in, so now the separate Nine-tails and eight-tails menacing Ball pages have been taken down and info has been merged, correct? Questionaredude (talk) 03:56, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * @SimAnt: At first glance, I would agree with you, but I took a closer look at the Hachibi's Bijūdama and it also seems to be elemental. Electric to be exact. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:12, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That swirly thing that appears just before he releases it? Considering how elemental the Two-Tails' version looked, I don't think that would really count as electricity. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't remember that having the electricity sound effect. ~SnapperTo 23:41, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well there's so many possibilities we can't really make a good conclusion right now... but seeing how Yugito did change into her full form before she used the fireball thing, it's probably related at least. Seeing how the Two-Tails is entirely covered in fire, maybe that's what its chakra looks like and it does have black or white properties, only invisible due to the chakra's fiery form? --GoDai (talk) 23:57, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Hachibi's bijūdama is clearly different from the Kyūbi's and has a distinctly electricity-looking effect around it. This cannot just be ignored. The carvings in the temple on the Island Turtle showed the Nibi and Hachibi doing their bijūdama and the Nibi' did have flames around it. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:18, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * So does that mean we'll have to make a elemental child for every version of the tailed beast ball, or is it enough to list each tailed beast adds its own twist to it? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Given the many uncertainties surrounding this technique, I'd keep it all in one article. At least for now. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:35, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Is the convoluted listing of Fire Release and Water Release in the infobox really required? Usually when there are variations of a technique, they're left out of the infobox and explained in the article, that's what we did with Lariat. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I continue to question the wisdom of forcing two anime techniques into a manga definition. They are not TBBs. ~SnapperTo 18:30, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically, the technique Yugito used while transformed is a manga technique, which further complicates the matter. I know it's still a while away, but the fourth databook can not come soon enough. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Two-Tails
I know that Two-Tails can perform Tailed Beast Ball, but I don't know if the attack which it used against Hidan and Kakuzu were a Tailed Beast Ball. Maybe it was a simple fire projectile, something as Wind Release: Drilling Air Bullet?--LeafShinobi (talk) 20:30, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed on two-tails AND three-tails, since they contain elemental chakra--Gojita (talk) 22:53, December 6, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
 * So we say those are simply tailed beast ball-like attacks, just like Drilling Air Bullet? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:34, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the Biju have abilities other than Bijudama, but those three definitely don't seem to fit the standard for this attack. The Eight Tails mentioned that it involves Shape Manipulation, but mentioned nothing of Nature Manipulation. I'd recommend calling those "Two-Tails Fire Ball" and "Three-Tails Water Ball," or something along those lines. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  01:59, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I thought about technique's shape.--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:32, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Alright lets try to get some arguments and facts highlighted Also could we please get this discusssion back on track or see some action on recreating the pages, since there appear to be no heavy arguments against it?. --Gojita (talk) 20:35, December 21, 2010 (UTC)Gojita
 * Killer Bee have stated that it rquires a 8:2 chakra ratio to create
 * This fits with how Killer Bee and the Nine-Tails have created the attack so far, BUT
 * I doubt(sorry if it is to speculative) that elemental chakra attacks fit with this 8:2 ratio.

Nine-Tails Trivia?
Could someone put a trivia saying about how the Nine-Tails charges his Beast Ball? (The bubble technique or whatever it was called in the old article) Questionaredude (talk) 01:18, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ratio
As a math person, it bothers me every time I see "8:2 ratio." It is more proper to write it as "4:1" in its reduced form. However, I do recognize that this is harder to visualize, so I suggest saying "80% black and 20% white" or something of the sort. Is this just me?

Speaking of ratio... shouldn't this skill be classified as yin-yang release? Black symbolizes the spiritual (yin) part of Chakra and White the physical (yang) one, right? 212.205.3.48 (talk) 00:43, February 23, 2011 (UTC)ChrisD

The problem is that Naruto only has the Yang chakra of the nine-tails so unless he is using his own yin chakra to supplant the lack of yin, we can't say till more info comes out. Besides why would Kishi call them black and white? The terms Yin and Yang seems to be used more frequently and should be the default names now. Perhaps to avoid having to reveal more about them earlier than he planned? While I agree its Yin and Yang we will have to wait for more info.Umishiru (talk) 00:51, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

Also, we can't put "80% black and 20% white" because the manga didn't state it like that. It was stated "8:2 ratio" so it stays like that. And just because Kishi said they were black and white, doesn't mean they are yin-yang. Unless it's said in manga, anime or databook, it's all speculation. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 03:29, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Naruto listed as a user.
If we are to consider Bee a user of this then shouldn't Naruto be listed as weel. Considering he used it when in his four-tail form?


 * From 4-8 tails Naruto is not in control of his body, the Nine-Tails was. Thus, Naruto has never used the Ball.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 03:33, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

sigh
Re: this

An encyclopedia reports the facts, it does not interpret them. What is a fact? The ball shrinks between when it first hits the barrier and when it punches through the other side. What are interpretations? That: Naruto is somehow responsible; the ball loses power for each of the 36 layers it goes through. Which of these two is suitable for any article on the wiki? Neither. Problem solved. ~SnapperTo 06:52, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yin and Yang
Is the positive white chakra yin or yang chakra and the black chakra yin or yang chakra? Could this be a plausible theory? if so, then how come the Kyuubi can do it, even if it has no yin chakra anymore?--70.94.202.27 (talk) 04:12, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

It is actually the Black Chakra that is positive and the white is negative. I don't think this negative/positive chakra has anything to do with the yin/yang chakra. It seems to be a trait of the tailed beasts' chakra, as of now.--Alastar 89 (talk) 04:56, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Shukaku variant
In naruto ultimate ninja storm 2, when shukaku uses the tailed beast bomb, should we call it something different other than a regular tailed beast bomb, since it mixes sand and chakra, not the black and white?--70.94.202.27 (talk) 04:16, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Could you get a video from Youtube or something, that would help. If it is what you say it looks like, you can just put that piece of info in the trivia section of the tailed beast ball article but I would like to see a video of the tailed beast ball. --Alastar 89 (talk) 05:03, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, just loook up something like Naruto shippuuden ultimate ninja storm 2 gaara vs deidara, it'll be at the end.

Considering he is not a Jinchūriki (at the point in the story, even in the game), I don't think its possible for him to even perform the Tailed Beast Ball. -- Hohenheim Talk to Me ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 01:41, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

What are you talking about, yes he is.--70.94.202.27 (talk) 02:24, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hohenheim, I believe they are talking about the One-Tailed Shukaku, not Shikaku Nara.  ~ Fmakck© (Images 02:29, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * My mistake, I forgot that Gaara still has his Bijū. Had a lapse there :P, but yea. It's not a mix of sand and chakra in the video, it looks like the sand-face of the Shukaku simply took shape around where Gaara fired the Tailed Beast Ball from. -- Hohenheim Talk to Me ◕ ‿‿ ◕ 03:08, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Four-Tailed Picture
If we usually use pictures of jutsu/characters when they are first introduced, why aren't we using Naruto in Four-Tailed form charging/firing the Beast Ball instead? Questionaredude (talk) 19:03, July 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it's not the true one. It's not a fully charged one, unlike the Eight-Tails' when we first saw it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

Shukaku's Tailed Beast Ball
Is it possible that the reason Shukaku can't perform a tailed beast ball is because he is the only tailed beast to be able to have a voice when outside of it's jinchuriki (aka, has been released) and also doesn't have enough chakra to perform it? It might be that a tailed beast needs a certain amount of chakra to use the Tailed Beast Ball and Shukaku simply doesn't have enough to use it, hence his Wind Release: Drilling Air Bullet (which just seems to be his unique version of the Tailed Beast Ball, also possibly devised because he knows he doesn't have enough chakra to use a Tailed Beast Ball).

Excuse a bit of rambling in my post, but I hope I got my point across. --speysider (talk) 18:21, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * When Hachibi said "every bijuu knows it", it means Shukaku knows it too. --VolteMetalic (talk) 18:59, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Knowing it doesn't mean they can use it. It's possible Shukaku saw the other beasts performing the technique, but does not have the chakra levels to use it. Remember, Shukaku only has one tail so he has a lot less chakra than the Two Tails, but higher than that of a ninja (probably the same as Kisame's Chakra level) --speysider (talk) 19:51, September 14, 2011 (UTC)

Rather, you should stop taking things too seriously. At the time when Shukaku battled Gama-what's-his-name, Kishi probably hadn't even made up the Tailed Beast Ball. Or he didn't use it because he didn't have time. If he would charge up the Beast Ball, Gama-what's-his-face would slice him to pieces. Look at the battle again, and you'll see that Shukaku/Ichibi were quite close to Gama-what's-his-momma all the time, eliminating any chance to charge his attack. Ruffy 20:09, September 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol wtf? I'm trying to have a discussion here, I don't need your witty comments tyvm. It's most likely that Shukaku either doesn't have the chakra, or is too fixated on killing people (his bloodlust) to bother with the Tailed Beast Ball. Or simply put, he doesn't see a need to use it, as he has Drilling Air Bullet, which causes the same damage as a Tailed Beast Ball (although on just a slightly smaller scale), as Gamabunta mentioned that a few hits from the Drilling Air Bullet would be enough to kill him. --speysider (talk) 08:18, September 15, 2011 (UTC)

I know this is old but I want to quash this Shukaku thing now before more topics about this is made. 8-tails said every tailed beast can make it. That alone means he can use it. He wind release tech only follows the course of the fact that other tailed beasts can use nature manipulation(2,3,4 tails). Remember tailed beast ball is not the only thing a beast can do and was not practical at the time. Author wise, the tailed beasts were not fleshed out fully back when Shukaku made his debut and battle.Umishiru (talk) 01:44, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Ten-Tails
Why isn't 10-tailed guy listed as a user? Its article says it's classified as a Tailed Beast, and all of them are said to be able to perform this technique. --109.92.124.41 (talk) 18:41, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well, to be technical, the Tailed Beasts are the chakra beings formed from the splitting of the the Jubi, which are stated to know TBB. I'm not saying the Jubi can't, but that all nine of them were explicitly stated as users. Tailed Beast is the only classification we have that it would fit under I assume. Skitts (talk) 20:15, December 22, 2011 (UTC)

Two versions?
So, we all know about when Naruto used the TBB for the first time. He gathered chakra and swallowed it, only to spit it out again as a beam. But other users and even Naruto himself have shown that the chakra must not be swallowed to shoot it away, right? So, are those two different jutsu or just two forms of the TBB or what? Any suggestions? Seelentau 愛議 22:58, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's necessarily two versions, just two ways that it's done. It seems if they're firing the ball there's no need to swallow although only Kurama and his host has ever swallowed the chakra and that's usually for the beam.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:27, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not including the recent anime, the Nine Tails swallowed the TTB and fired it at Naruto in ball form. And on that side note, hasn't every time it has used, it was in Ball form?--Questionaredude (talk) 23:32, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kurama didn't swallow it in the manga in its fight with Naruto. And no it's the same technique, just a different way of using it. Skitts (talk) 00:05, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually he did swallow it.--Deva 27 00:10, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yep, you're right. I was thinking of the one it tried to use before it was sealed. xD Skitts (talk) 00:19, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

But the most recent use by Naruma and the other Bijū showed that the TBB doens't need to be swallowed. Seelentau 愛議 14:53, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

The article has already said for the longest time that it can be fired right away, or ingested and then fired. The Nine-Tails has done it both ways. It's not the first time we've seen it without being swallowed.--Deva 27 14:55, January 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * The article did? ô.o Okay... well, apparantly I'm blind^^' Seelentau 愛議 20:21, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Gallery
Would anyone be opposed to making a gallery of how the Bijūdama works? Such as the chakra being molded into the ball, the ball being swallowed, and then it being fired. I think the most recent episode with the technique would work perfectly. I don't think the current images really show how it works all that well. We could also have one of just the ball being fired.--Deva 27 00:02, January 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not I.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:05, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Skitts (talk) 00:26, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Ex- Jinchuriki
Hey, the revived jinchuriki are also users of the Tailed Beast Ball; they used in the fight against Naruto and B when full transformed in their Tailed Beast, so they should be added --190.204.133.199 (talk) 01:49, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * The tailed beasts used them, under Tobi's command. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:19, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Ok then Han can't have "Horn Breaking" under his jutsu list or Utakata can't have "Corrosive Gas" under his because the tailed beast used them under Tobi's command and not the transforme jinchuriki --190.204.133.199 (talk) 04:18, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

What I mean is that in order to use the Tailed Beast Ball, the beast and the host must be in sync like B and Naruto were with their beasts, because TBB can only be done with a full transformation. As we don't know if the other hosts ever achieved that, they're not listed as the users, just the beasts. There's no such limitation on those other techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:30, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Myth connection
It seems that the Tailed Beast Ball has similarities to a hoshi no tama, an object that holds a spirit's (mainly towards kitsune) magical power or soul. Can we add it in the Influence section? KazeKitsune (talk) 19:03, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

positive and negative chakra
Aren't the positive and negative chakra coloured red and blue? not black and white. Also the ratio is it 8 negative/black to 2 postive/white or vise-verse? --86.166.27.205 (talk) 15:49, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * They're red and blue in the anime. The manga makes it very clear that it's black and white. And the ratio is correct as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:37, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Can we change the colours? wait when killer b does it...it looks like he is using white and black? where does the positive and negative chakra come from?
 * References are in the article for a reason you know. Go to chapter 519. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:57, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

looked? --86.166.27.205 (talk) 18:20, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

I remember that scene, I'm just telling you where to go so you can look it up yourself. I'm not your babysitter, I don't have to explain you everything. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:18, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

then dont that simple babe x--86.166.27.205 (talk) 20:39, July 7, 2012 (UTC)