Talk:Tenpenchii

Kurama as a user
Given how Kurama referred to the jutsu by name and was said to be able to create earthquakes and tsunamis with mere flicks of his tails, would he not be a presumed user, albeit on a smaller scale? I don't see any other reason for him to know the jutsu given how he was reborn as a portion of the Jūbi's being and raised as a child by the Rikudō Sennin and thus would not, or at least, should know about any of the Jūbi's jutsu.--Reliops (talk) 19:58, April 23, 2013 (UTC)Reliops

Perhaps grandpa sage of six told them everything about ten-tails--Elveonora (talk) 20:24, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Cataclysm
Anyone opposes us actually moving to that title? It's not like the translation is some convoluted mess. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:23, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * As far as I know we leave those idiom names untranslated, do we? Seelentau 愛議 00:49, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * There have been anime jutsu which are four character idioms as well, and those where translated to their meaning. Hurricane Thunderclap and Impermanence of Worldly Things. I'm not sure if that's the reason being ST and BS, but those where technically split. I think those were left like that out of the convolutedness of them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:49, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say that we should leave it untranslated since cataclysm doesn't explain the technique very well. TricksterKing (talk) 02:11, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should un-translate those anime idioms as well? Seelentau 愛議 12:13, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * It may help if one point out those techniques, cause I have no idea which ones we are talking about.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:03, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * Tenpenchii literally translates to Cataclysm according to Lord Tangorin. I do understand the whole issue that the name may not encapsulate what is going on in the technique but that is what the article itself and the trivia is for. In this case, as Omnibender said, the name isn't convoluted like some of the other translations.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:26, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Edo Tenseing this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:04, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Nature Transformation
Soo i was wondering if the disasters the Ten-Tails brings with this technique are Nature Transformation-related. earthquakes for Earth Release, thunderstorms for Lightning Release, floods for Water Release and the twisters for Wind Release. EDIT: To me this seems like the Ten-Tails using multiple elements/nature transformation forms in conjuction. Any opinions on this? Darksusanoo (talk) 13:26, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you think that is a conjunction between this technique and the Ten-Tails Chakra Weapons because of Hiruzen's statement?  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 18:57, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't take it that far yet...but we see multiple elements being used as part of this technique soo...it can't be anything other than nature transformation.Darksusanoo (talk) 20:04, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right, what I said on my question is if the Ten-Tails has all types of elements from this technique and Obito after acquiring its chakra or not.  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 20:38, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe, though truth be told, we don't know if that unique nature transformation is from the Ten-Tails or if it's chakra facilitated that for Obito. But let's keep the context in this technique...we've seen four different elements in this technique...water, earth, wind and lightning...should they be counted as nature transformation for the Ten-Tails or not? Darksusanoo (talk) 20:43, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * This technique is more complex than any other technique because of its multiple transformation. For me, it's better to wait for the next chapters to see the effects of the Ten-tails chakra on Obito that allows him to use more techniques for more clarifying. Any thoughts?  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 20:50, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think you should chalk this with Obito's unique nature transformation...there are too many unknowns there. Here we clearly see four elements being manipulated...there's a difference between using multiple elements and having the ability to combine them. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:06, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyone care to chime in? Darksusanoo (talk) 23:05, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

As always, I'm against adding anything unconfirmed. Seelentau 愛議 23:26, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * I will not be surprised if the technique does involve nature transformations, but until the manga itself hints at that, neither should we. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:57, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * What else do you want sempai? We see four different nature elements: water, earth, wind and lightning being used, and so far the series has determined that the only way to do so is nature transformation. If anyother character...human, tailed beast or otherwise was seen manipulating an element or more, we'd add the correspondant nature transformation. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:03, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * It could be that the natural disasters here aren't directly created by the TT, but are a result of using this technique, or am I overseeing something? Seelentau 愛議 21:37, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. It was stated to be a god, wasn't it? And also natural energy stuff. Perhaps it affects nature itself to create those effects--Elveonora (talk) 21:56, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Kaguya
Not sure if someone else noticed, but there's panel in 670 with her sort of creating lightning storms that look a lot like this. Is it trivia worthy to compare the two, despite the lack of other disasters in whatever Kaguya did? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:04, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh yea, i noticed that too. Not sure if it's enough to add her as a user, but we may be able to mention something of the sort in the trivia.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju) Talk Page-My Contributions 15:13, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying to add her as a user, I'm just suggesting that we point the similarity. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:24, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree on adding it to the trivia as a similarity. Even though it's not stated as Tenpenchii nor stated that she casted the thunderstorm, it is heavily implied that she did cast it by Hagomoro stating her overpower. BHM1250 (talk) 07:56, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

I know people are stupid about this, but
Ten-Tails is technically Kaguya, so she did use this--Elveonora (talk) 12:48, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I stopped following these discussions, therefore I ask: Did the others accept your conclusions about her being the Juubi or not? Because I remember there being some resistance against it...Norleon (talk) 12:54, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Again: The TT is not "technically Kaguya". The TT is more than Kaguya and it was the TT that used this, so we keep the TT and do not add Kaguya. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:00, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't follow that logic. EDIT: Norleon, what resistance? It was stated in the manga itself, I didn't make it up--Elveonora (talk) 13:03, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * If we attribute everything the TT did to Kaguya, we're ignoring that the TT is more than Kaguya. I don't even know why you think that [Kaguya = TT]. That's not the case, it's [Kaguya + Shinju = TT] and that is what was stated in the manga. Furthermore, looking at the degenerated, mindless TT that used this ability, I'm fairly certain that it was not Kaguya who used it, but the Shinju part. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:05, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

So we credit both? One isn't the Ten-Tails without the other and they used it as one being. What sense does it make to credit one half of it but not the other? That's my point. TT = Kaguya + Shinju, yet only Shinju is listed--Elveonora (talk) 13:09, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's probably because back then, we didn't know that Kaguya had to do with the TT's creation. It should be changed to TT, yes. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:11, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The article should be renamed to Ten-Tails and the Shinju should have its own, because it is no longer Shinju, it was while being rooted in a place waiting for a woman to eat its fruit.--Elveonora (talk) 13:12, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Also you are wrong about the Ten-Tails being the Shinju's mind, there's no evidence the Shinju even had any in the first place, hence being a tree. The Ten-Tails made a hand seal, something ninja and their progeny do, not trees, not to mention it spoke to Madara about becoming one with everything and that's Kaguya's goal, not the Shinju's--Elveonora (talk) 13:14, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said that the TT was the Shinju's mind. But according to the last chapter, there needs to be some kind of mind that Kaguya has to subdue with her own mind. Otherwise, the rabbit comes out. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:16, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The minds of the Tailed Beasts, yes. She tried to turn into Ten-Tails but became a rabbit instead because they interfered. The Shinju isn't known to be conscious in any way. In fact, everything that was originally attributed to the Shinju by Kurama, Gyuki, Obito and Madara, creation/destruction/godhood and stuff, we were shown it then as the Ten-Tails, meaning it was post-Kaguya merger. As a tree, it sat in place for god knows how long and split no oceans or whatever--Elveonora (talk) 13:20, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * What I don't understand is why that rabbit thing is what it is. Shouldn't the result be the degenerated TT we already know? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:25, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because it's an unsuccessful transformation. She tried to became the Ten-Tails as we know it, the Tailed Beasts interfered and she became a rabbit. The heads of the Tailed Beasts I guess are supposed to show that their and her mind are fighting each other, but considering the main head is a rabbit and is trying to kill everyone, she is in control still--Elveonora (talk) 13:33, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

That doesn't necessarily have to be true. If i was a giant fricken blob and had multiple heads growing out of me id try getting rid of them to. This rabbit thing could very well have zero knowledge of what its even doing for all we know. I say wait till next chapter. Munchvtec (talk) 13:38, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The reason why Shinju and Ten-Tails still have the same article is because when you take out the dominate the Kaguya-Factor, we still had the Shinju and the Ten-Tails as one page. If you want to see them all as three separate entities or what not is fine and dandy, but before Kaguya was thrown into the mix being the "How" the Shinju turned into the Ten-Tails, we kept them together. Separating these two does the opposite of merging them into one super article in that the Shinju article then becomes a paragraph background and that's pretty much the end of it, because everything else would be Ten-Tails. If the article's name should be changed back to Ten-Tails or whatnot is up there. Part of me still beleives "Shinju" is just as munch a moniker for the tree as "Ten-Tails" but what can you do.
 * Now as to why giant rabbit monster is a giant rabbit monster, who the hell knows. Maybe giant rabbit monster is what happens when the chakra is unstable? Maybe rabbit monster is what happens when neither side is dominate and Kaguya's form is what happens when she is dominate and giant tree eye monster is what happens when the Ten-Tails is dominate. Who the hell knows, because Black Zetsu wasn't specific. Just said "that thing is outta control! aaaaaah".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:43, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Well i commend you for your great and somewhat amusing answer. Ty. Munchvtec (talk) 13:45, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Sticking to the topic at hand, we have evidence that Kaguya has used this, but ultimately she didnt, regardless of her relation to the TenTs. It's best left as a trivia note, like we have it now. On the side topic, yes, the Shinju should be re-renamed into the Ten-Tails, since the Shinju is a tree with nothing else to do with anything, ever since Madara was proven wrong about its background and being long merged with Kaguya. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 15:01, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ulti: "The Shinju article then becomes a paragraph background and that's pretty much the end of it" why is that a problem though? Not every article has to be super long, you know. Also this is why the logic escapes me... both Kaguya and Shinju make up the Ten-Tails, YET Shinju and Ten-Tails share one article, but Kaguya is separate. Shinju should be separate too in that case. The only way it's logical to me is if we either merge both Shinju and Kaguya into one article as the Ten-Tails or if we separate Shinju and Ten-Tails, thus having all 3 separate.--Elveonora (talk) 15:12, August 7, 2014 (UTC)