Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-31966672-20200409171208/@comment-6769189-20200416092916

CyberianGinseng wrote:

You're the one making the claim that he could've, would've, should've learned cold reading somewhere in some magical chapter. I only need to point to Neji saying he does cold reading with his all seeing Byakugan. I literally need no other information than that. And tou are claiming he could've, would've, should've taught himself cold reading somewhere in some magical chapter because Byakugan.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

You quit arguing about it without conceding the point, hoping I'd just forget. That's why we're still arguing about it. No, you are still arguing about it. I let it go a long time ago.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Hinata certainly didn't react to it. She was much slower than Neji back then. Hinata also was an inferior user of their doujutsu, so IF she didn't see it, that's why. So there are speeds too fast for the Byakugan to see.

The thing is, its not that she didnt react to the strikes. She was shocked they were even there. She never saw those hits land.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Neji didn't react to them. Prove that Neji didn't see them. Neji didn't have the speed to react to a Jounin at that time. As Rock Lee explained, it doesn't matter that you can see a movement if you don't have the speed to react, you can't do anything but watch. You've presented no evidence to prove your case. That would be valid if not for the fact that he was genuinely shocked at all of these. Like, no idea something was happening until after it happened. If he was registering these movements he wouldnt be surprised or caught off guard

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Don't know what fight you were watching, but Neji kept up with everything Naruto threw at him when his Byakugan was active. When Naruto vanishes in a speed blitz, Neji never loses sight of him, he catches the shuriken Naruto threw at him, and throws them right back, but Naruto's speed dodges his attacks. The last attack was when his Byakugan was deactivated. Neji expressed shock at Naruto's sudden disappearance and didnt react until Naruto was coming to a stop. If he could see him he wouldnt have been shocked and would have already begun his counter.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Not that I recall. Kidomaru had to hide attacks in his blind spot, otherwise they were detected. Point out what you're talking about. Ch. 192: Neji went to hit Kidomaru in the back and Kidomaru flipped himself all the way to the other side of Neji and Neji was taken completely by surprise

Ch. 194: Neji completely misses Kidomaru oozing his armor stuff while hitting him the with the pokes of death while using the eyes of see "all". Neji also is shocked at Kidomaru's sudden disappearance

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Not going to take your word for it. In any case, a 2 tomoe sharingan wouldn't be likely to get anyone out of that situation. Speculation

CyberianGinseng wrote:

All doujutsus fail. That's a fact. Kakashi with 3 tomoe sharingan couldn't see Itachi's hand signs. Sasuke's Mangekyou couldn't keep up with Kirabi's swordplay. Doujutsu's fail because the movements are beyond their current capability all the time. Point where I said any doujutsu is 100% effective all the time. You can't, because I didn't. No one is arguing they dont fail. You claimed the Byakugan sees speed. Clearly it doesnt all the time. And from what we have seen from the Sharingan it offers a significantly greater boost in perception of speed than Byakugan.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Doesn't change the fact that 2 tomoe completes Raikiri/Chidori and the Byakugan is more than a match for it. Speculation

CyberianGinseng wrote:

I said nothing about the attack being successful. You made a claim. "Chidori REQUIRES the high speed to use" I demonstrated twice that Kakashi and Sasuke certainly used the jutsu in a completely different fashion than what you claimed. If they failed to meet the standards of their own jutsu then they are incompetent. Is that now your claim? You claim it can be used without speed but both times it was attempted without it it failed. The jutsu can be activated at close range and even launched at close range but its efficiency is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

By the way, I love how you tried to frame the scene like it's lack of success has anything at all to do with the validity of your point. When Kakashi showed Minato that jutsu at high speed he almost got killed. Minato had to save him. How's that for lack of success? Kakashi didnt have the Sharingan at the time. Kakashi actually hit and killed 17/18 targets. So if we are counting: Long range, dashing Chidori: 17 kills

Near stand still lunge Chidori: 0 kills

Like i said, effectiveness is significantly reduced. But the series kind of already told us the jutsu requires overwhelming speed and a Sharingan to make up for tunnel vision.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

That's not what happened. Kakashi didn't intentionally get himself stabbed and that wouldn't restrain Pain if he did since he could let go of his weapon any time. Kakashi put up a wall behind Pain to block retreat and then engaged him in hand to hand combat. Nothing would have stopped him from moving to the side

They also didnt engage in hand to hand after Kakashi got stabbed, he went straight into a Chidori

CyberianGinseng wrote:

If you were correct that high speed hand to hand combat induces tunnel vision, then nondoujutsu users would ever engage in it. Yet they do all the time. Clearly, it's not the same thing. Unless you can show hand to hand combatants worried about tunnel vision you can't prove this point. So what you are saying is Kakashi's Raikiri failed in this instance because he didnt use it with the kind of speed Raikiri is intended to be used with?

This only reinforces that Chidori minus speed results in failure

CyberianGinseng wrote:

So now you admit that it can be used differently. You could've just done that in the beginning and saved us both some time. Can be attemoted to be used differently but doing so has only resulted in failure so far.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

I on the other hand do have evidence that the Raikages didn't react to the counterattacks in exactly the manner that Minato described. No you dont have evidence. There are panels clearly showing 4A looking around while using a full speed punch and the lore states the armor speeds up his nervious system

UltimaDude wrote:

I concede that A4 was indeed moving his head, but it was before Minato teleported. Notice that I'm referring to A's second go. In the attack you're talking about (A's first go), Minato flicked his kunai upwards at the last second from below the waist. A then moved his eye to see the kunai right before Minato teleported behind him. Im confused. I dont see a panel where A is looking around before Minato's teleport.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Then he didn't have "a single point of focus" and it doesn't fit Minato's description. Pray do tell. What made the execution different between them? They both used a high speed dash-thrust. If

CyberianGinseng wrote:

Please, don't bring in stuff from the anime. We don't know how Minato placed his kunai that Raikage barely had time to glance at before he was attacked. There is no panel which shows that in the manga. Only the anime shows him flipping his kunai. There is a panel showing him mid dash looking arou d himself.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

This is your headcanon. Reaction speed eliminating tunnel vision was never stated in the manga. Chapter 462.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

It doesn't make any sense anyway. If you're thinking faster AND moving faster than you'd have the same problem at a faster scale. In order for this to even make ANY sense, Raikage would have to be moving at slow motion to himself to eliminate tunnel vision. He can't out think his own speed. Unless the increase to the nervous system is greater than body increase.

CyberianGinseng wrote:

No. Losing sight of the target isn't the same as detecting where the target's counter is coming from. Just because I lose sight of a left hook doesn't mean I'm going to detect that it was a feint and that the punch is really a right cross. If your logic is correct, Kakashi could see his target shifting the body he was trying to stab, so why did Minato have to save him? Hint. Minato never mentions momentum.

No. Momentum had nothing to do with it. Momentum won't stop the Raikage from shifting their arms just like momentum didn't stop Naruto/Sasuke from shifting their entire upper bodies. They didn't alter their arm movements because they didn't see the counterattacks. That's why they got shanked.

Have you ever played any sports? How do you somehow believe that you can hit any fast moving object at all without timing your swing? He did time his counter. That's why his arm and sword are drawn in blurred lines, indicating that he swung quickly at the precise moment Kakashi reached him: https://i.imgur.com/fkXTgd5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Frt8tg7.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bIFoWHv.jpg He thus nicked Kakashi under his arm despite Minato saving him from the brunt of it. Nothing was casual about it; that's a fabrication on your part.

No. Once again, losing sight of something isn't the same as knowing where it is or where it's attacking from. Here Blade loses sight of his opponent and gets clocked with an uppercut he wasn't expecting: https://i.imgur.com/eaVK67w.mp4 By your logic the mere fact that he could no longer see the opponent should've alerted him to how to counter the incoming attack. Pretty sure you've been in at least one fight in your life. Fighting doesn't work like that. Losing sight causes you to hesitate more, not react quicker. However, if you clearly detect something coming at you from below, your reflexes kick in much faster. You really should start replying to specific quote because it is borderline impossible to know what you are referring to in pretty much all of the above quote.