Talk:Kurama

Wind release?
Just noticed that there is a wind release (anime only) tag for the Kyuubi. I cannot think anywhere, where it uses wind release jutsu. prove me wrong. but safe to say, until i have been proven wrong, Wind release shall be removed. SharinganMike (talk) 17:01, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * If the fire breathing is considered a Fire Release and listed in the infobox, the twister it made with the arm is a Wind Release and is listed in the infobox. Both have the same canon standing, so it's either both or none for me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:51, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would personally go for including neither. In fact, I would argue for a rule that would exclude from inclusion anything the anime creators thought up while high on drugs... —ShounenSuki (talk 00:57, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Those episodes were just...horrible in terms of quality. I'd say make a trivia note stating that in the anime it can breathe fire, but saying it has Fire Release has no real standing. As for Wind Release, isn't it possible that the shockwave from its arm created that tornado? Like when Naruto punched at Sasuke in the Final Valley, creating that "wind" shockwave? That's not wind release at all. I say remove them both. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 17:39, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * The animation did get decent once Chibaku Tensei started though. Since those were anime only things, I think there isn't much damage in leaving those as long as they're clearly shown to have happened in the anime only. If we remove these natures, I think we should also remove the Water Release from the Three-Tails, because everything we know about its abilities is anime-only. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:48, December 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Quite unsure why I never got emails about this contributions. But anyway, better late then never. The fire stream the 8 tailed version did, is undeniable. Fire Release. The Wind Release, I would say no. One is because what Ten Tailed Fox said. Another is because Neji, and Hinata. They use the Eight Trigrams Empty Wall Palm, as seen in Chapter 521. A projection of chakra, similar to what Naruto does in the Final Valley. Yet that isn't to be Wind Release, due to the useage of air. It's just the useage of chakra. And on another note. The twister, it could be even at a stupidly long stretch at being Water Release. Or logically thinking. The chakra cloak. Seems a bit of a ramble, but it'd be fine SharinganMike (talk) 13:40, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * If what the fox had done was just a shockwave, I'd be ok, but it literally became a mini tornado. I'm don't get why bring Neji and Hinata into this discussion, we're talking about what the fox did, not them. I don't remember Naruto doing anything that even remotely looked like a tornado in the Valley of the End. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:26, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Releases revisited
Since talk on this subject died out without really reaching a conclusion, I think it's time to bring it back. Like I mentioned a few sections above, I believe that as the fire-breathing and twister both have the same canon standing, we either list both as natures, or neither. I would go for neither. As an extension of that, I think we should also remove Water Release from the Three-Tails, since it has pretty much the same canon standing as this, and the Fire Release from the Two-Tails, since it was never actually called Fire Release. This includes removing the natures from their unnamed tailed beast ball attacks. The only tailed beasts with actually confirmed natures are Shukaku having Wind Release, and the Four-Tails, having earth, fire and lava. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:37, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * This will live! I suppose they could be removed as the twister could very well just be chakra apart from the fact that's it's not canon at all. But, if it's clear that these abilities were only shown in the anime and hence is fictional i suppose it can stay as is. --Cerez365 (talk) 13:55, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ahaha I just commented on the Wind Release topic about 20 minutes ago, didn't even see this one. The Two Tails and 3 Tails, should stay, gives it abit of depth towards towards the beasts. However the Wind Release should go for the 9 Tails. The Fire should stay. See my Hyuga reasoning above as to why Wind should go. SharinganMike (talk) 14:06, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hyūga have nothing to do with this. And we have as much explicit canon evidence for Two and Three Tails' natures as we do for the Six Tails. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:26, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I want to point out that until I fell completely off the discussion, none of the tailed beasts elemental moves were considered nature transformations. Then one day, they were and I never pushed the issue because I felt it was a moot point. With this said the discussion then falls back into that old argument: Are those moves nature transformations. If we do consider them transformations, then by their anime canon weight, are listed in the infobox. If not, then the jutsu are listed under techniques but that's it.--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 18:34, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Omnibender, I think you misunderstood what I meant about Neji and Hinata. The Eight Trigrams Empty Palm uses a forcefull chakra push which also pushes the air. But it is not a Wind Release. Daytime Tiger uses chakra to create air pressure into a single point. ALso not a Wind Release. The 9 Tails could have simply used chakra to create the the twister. I don't see it as a Wind Release jutsu. By default, would it make Naruto's roar in the Final Valley a Wind Release? Or a mere use of the chakra of the 9 Tails. I'm just giving examples of other jutsu's that have used air, but are not Wind Release. And for this, the reasoning as to why it shouldn't be down for Wind Release. SharinganMike (talk) 18:46, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand the "push the air" argument, my point here, is that unlike every other jutsu that falls under "push the air", this took the shape of a tornado. None of previously seen attacks that work by sending chakra have ever done that, as far as I know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:51, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

How about Daytime Tiger though? Does a sign, creates the pressure point, does another hand sign, "which launches the air pressure at the opponent in the shape of a tiger, by leaving a gigantic tiger-shaped impression into the initially built-up air pressure with the hand seal." That's the only jutsu that shapes the air, that I know of, which isn't a Wind Release. SharinganMike (talk) 19:03, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm divided now. I understand, and sort of reluctantly agree with that argument, but I still think that it should be both or neither, in the listing of the natures. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:14, January 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think Wind Release should go. Far too much inconsistancy, and specualtion over the entire "jutsu". The animation to those episodes was pure shambles. And I do animation! Where as the fire stream, you don't just burp fire. I would keep the Fire Release, and leave it at that. SharinganMike (talk) 19:22, January 5, 2011 (UTC)