Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26958911-20151010214426/@comment-26675690-20160218144952

First are somethings that I don't get with how the OP was phrased.

His Power Level is Over 9000!!! wrote: Jiraiya: During his battle with Pain

Itachi: During his battle with Sasuke

No restrictions and fair fights

While Itachi was later said to not be ill that just means that he can't die from it like during Itachi vs. Sasuke. Just because he lacks a brain tumor or tuberculosis (whatever his illness is) doesn't mean his endurance goes up at all. It's not like it actually affects his speed speed, strength etc. And where are some people getting "perfect eyesight" from.

LoneNinja wrote: 1.1) Jiraiya stated he was going all out at the very beginning of the fight thus voids your claim he wasn't. You keep forgetting Itachi could use other Genjutsu besides the Sharingan based. The fact people said he could control multiple people on the manga chapter I provided, pretty much seals this case. Shisui also was able to use genjutsu outside a sensors range on multiple people, shown during Ao's flashback.

Pretty sure at the time Itachi was trying to kill Sasuke until Kishi retconned the thing just so Sasuke had a reason to be at odds with Konoha. So saying Jiraiya was going all out is clearly incorrect seeing as what SM did hadn't been defined yet aside from stronger jutsu.

1. Pein's receiver stabbed through SM Jiraiya's forearm and shoulder with ease while SM Naruto shattered it like glass with a block.

2. Jiraiya didn't have any additional sensing abilities or else he would have known three other Peins (or reinforcements at the least) were coming and drop his guard.

3. SM Naruto (indirectly) on top of Gamabunta a good ways away from the 6PoP and Tsunade was able to intercept the Asura path, who cleared at least 60m-70m in 1 second from our perspective (therefore is actually moving much faster), before it reached Tsunade while Jiraiya moved at the same speed. And I think we all agree that Jiraiya >>> Naruto speed wise.

4. SM Naruto crushes the Asura path with one hit whereas it tore of SM Jiraiya's arm without Ma or Pa realising until they looked down.

1.2) Not even gonna reply to this because the clones were also gathering their chakra and had their hands clapped. Also about the Kakashi thing, Kakashi could only make a handful of Shadow Clones while Naruto could make over a thousand without Kyubi.

Doesn't have to do with the debate but I think that Kakashi is just shit at telling chakra levels without the Sharingan

2)I asked for a toad that could benefit Jiraiya, Gama is not one when he can just be Genjutsu'd, Amaterasu'd, Tsukuyomi'd, etc.

Seeing as Gama was fast enough to get in between Kisame and Naruto (with neither realising until it had happened) as well as stop Samehada dead in its tracks, I'm pretty sure that Gama could actually make a difference

3)Then read the Manga chapter it has listed.

Well that is clearly an exaggeration seeing as these guys are sensing some pretty accurate shit going down a few hundred miles away. Now if Itachi can cast genjutsu at that distance he is op even for the best of the best outside characters like Kaguya, Juubidara and Juubito

6) I think I gave you a reasonable time and it still isn't on there, so can't be used.

Fact is though Jiraiya always has fuinjutsu materials on him just like when he first sealed Amaterasu. Not to mention when he started burning the message into Fukusaku's back. That means he can simply use a rock to seal it away. That makes it even worse for Itachi since he is a Doton user, so one rock wall with the seal already on it and one MS power is useless

8) There's no way a toad can get away from an Amaterasu flame when it could hit A in his Lightning Armor form and he needed Body Flicker+Lightning Armor to dodge it. That is a made up assumption that a toad is fast enough to dodge it.

Gamakichi used NE against TTJ Obito, if he can use it why wouldn't the older boss level summons be able to aka they sense Amaterasu and jump. Plus Gamabunta was able to keep up with SM Naruto and Pein's fight actually intercepting the Deva path who is definitely the fastest. This means that in terms of speed if

Amaterasu >= CS2 Sasuke < Orochimaru = 4 Tails v.2 < 6 Tails v.2 >= Deva = SM Naruto

And Gamabunta could intercept Deva moving full speed to stop Naruto re-entering SM then the giant toads are able to dodge dodge Amaterasu along with Jiraiya/SM Jiraiya.