Talk:Madara Uchiha

Trimming Down: Abilities
To avoid further edit war, I am adding this here with my intentions. Namely, the complete removal of Bukijutsu, kenjutsu and Intelligence from his abilities section. As well as general trimming down of the prose and circlejerking his section is full of. Because quite frankly, his intelligence should go under Personality, and bukijutsu and kenjutsu are literally only worth a sentence because they aren't that important most of his fighting style was focused around Susanoo, with very little use of a sword or gubai.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:50, December 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand what you are saying, but that is also like saying that Shikamaru's intelligence is not a defining attribute to him. Similar, Itachi's signature ability wasn't shurikens, but was still a noticeable skill of his. Steveo920, 18:56 December 22, 2013


 * Seriously, I am all for making this page sleeker, I've been reducing all day to help out. Not just the abilities section, but the personality section as well. I just think that if the character shows noticeable skill in it, it should be mention to some extent. Steveo920, 19:-1, December 22, 2013


 * The issue is though intelligence is not Madara's defining feature. Madara's defining ability is his dojutsu. He is smart no denying that, but it is not a defining ability. Same with kenjutsu and bukijustsu, he for the most part uses them. But he isn't defined by them. Its not the same situation of Shikamaru or Tenten, both or are defined by their intelligence and weapon techniques respectively. Both ken and bukijutsu can be mentioned, they should be mentioned, but it is not worth a large section which continues to just read like a circlejerk of how awesome Madara is.
 * Like that's the second part of the problem. We don't need to have multiple mentions of how Madara can pwn fodder shinobi with no effort. We don't need to literally repeat some of his great feats multiple times in multiple sections. That was what I was trying to do to trim this down, I removed repeated actions and dropped ones that are quite frankly pointless (Mentioning his can battle an entire army is fine. Mentioning he can battle an entire army multiple times and it becomes a circlejerk.)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:08, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Everything should be mentioned, im agaisnt taking certain thing out Munchvtec (talk) 00:29, December 23, 2013 (UTC)munchvtec


 * Good contribution. Now tell us how you really feel or you just like the circlejerk of information Madara's page has devolved into?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:31, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree, little things shouldn't be blown out of proportion, that's why I am still gragually trimming it down myself, but to act like they had no involvement at all is like saying they have no ability for it all. Hashirama's life force and chakra is a key aspect to Madara's plan, but it wasn't a defining attribute to Hashirama himself. Whats-more, Madara's weapon and intelligence traits are noticeable as he was known for his gunbai and his intelligence played an important role to the development of the world, having manipulated so much from beyond the grave. Steveo920, 19:30, December 22, 2013


 * To be honest, your trimming down seems more phoned in. And you are still blowing things out to be bigger than they need to be. As I said he has used his gubai and that can be mentioned, but not to such a degree that he needs entire section dedicated to it. We don't need a section on his intelligence because "he manipulated things from the grave". He actually didn't, he had Tobi do his works for him, and had Kabuto not revived Madara, Tobi would have been alone with the Ten-Tails. We can mention he is smart fine, but he does not need an entire section based on his intelligence at least not in his Abilities section. So yes, even "important role to the development of the world" is overhyping him. The problem is that much of what is in the article is overhype. Things need to actually be removed to solve this problem not trying to dance around the issue.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:45, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll admit that by statement about his intelligence wasn't thought out, I guess I was getting a little emotional since I seriously put so much work into my edits, but the way you are saying it, characters like Kakashi don't need an intellgence section. It isn't his most defining but it place a huge role on how he operates. Steveo920, 19:53, December 22, 2013


 * I'm of the same mind as Ultimate, honestly, and for every page. Not just Madara. I don't know when it became acceptable that every single sneeze a character makes is mentioned in the ability section, but its needless, and takes up space that could be used by actual useful information. The abilities section should give a summary—key word here—of Madara's defining capabilities. His dōjutsu, to name the most significant. Trimming bukijutsu and intelligence, or even outright removing them, would be fine. Madara hasn't even used his fan since he first arrived back on the battlefield, and, I'm sorry, while he's skilled with other weapons, they clearly aren't his main mode of attack. Not to mention, the abilities section was mostly buffed up by a select few who seem to worship Madara's ever action, adding in needless "junk info" along with a ton of unneeded references. These articles aren't meant to recount every single action in the series done by these characters, verbatim. It is to give a summary. If people want to know that Madara Uchiha was capable of using a fan to blow away Naruto, then they can visit the Jutsu page, or read the manga, but it certainly doesn't need an entire section dedicated to it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:56, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * If you want to reduce the sections, I will have no problem with that. I just think that if they show more than average skill in the said area, it should be noted. It's kind of like how on various pages a character's limits are noted, like Itahci not being able to defeat Jiraiya. Its not defining, but it paints a clearer picture on what the character can do. 2Steveo920, 20:09, December 22, 2012
 * Except this isn't about his limit, its nothing but circlejerking around how he is close to being a god. We could mention him being legendary and strong but instead the article throws extreme focus on him wrecking or hyping up little things he does. Honestly skills outside of dojutsu and nature transformations can be summed up as "Highly skilled in taijutsu and various weapons, particularly his gumbai". That is literally all that needs to be said about kenjutsu bukijutsu and taijutsu yet the article has 3 different sections about them.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 01:40, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll admit I don't even know what "circlejerking" is exactly, but I'm not trying to overhype anything> I just want to give readers a better idea than just thinking a character is good at something when there is more information. To go overboard about how he is close to being a god from intelligence or weapon skills would be like saying he is borderline clairvoyant or he no army in the world could stand against him respectively. Steveo920, 20:48, December 22, 2012

In my opinion, I find trimming down Madara's article to be pointless. 100,000 some bytes is hardly that bad, and furthermore, given that the manga is scheduled to end in 2014 (so probably in a little more than two months or three), it's not like there's that much more information that will be given on Madara. Furthermore, Bukijutsu and whatnot are crucial to a character. The purpose of a Wikia site for information is to give readers a thorough guideline about characters and other associated things, so to shorten it to only bare essentials and cutting out what we consider "unimportant" is silly. As a canon site, we should present exactly what Kishi gives us through the chapters, not shortening it and summarizing it to how we personally fancy it. I dunno, just my two cents. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 05:07, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except the wikia was never supposed to be an alternative to actually reading the manga/watching the anime. Sections like abilities are supposed to be summuries, not word for word dick jerking of a particular character where every single thing they do is consider the Kings Gold and hyped as if it is an intergral part of the character.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 10:33, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * Various characters have various abilities that aren't the most prominent, but still give an overall idea what they can do. Kakashi specializes in ninjutsu supplemented by his Sharingan, yet he is still a highly skilled taijutsu user, one of few able to use any of the Eight Gates, which he rarely uses but is still noteworthy. Steveo920. 10:51, Dec 23, 2013


 * Okay, but you're equating "noteworthy" as an excuse to write an entire novel and dedicate a unique section to the skill. Even your example can be summed up as, "Kakashi is a talented user of taijutsu, being one of the few shinobi capable of opening the Eight Gates". Bingo. Done. Not five paragraphs on everytime he successfully landed a punch on a villain. Ultimate is absolutely right. This wiki is not an alternative for the manga. If you want to know every single skill a character has, that is what the story is for. Summaries are what we are supposed to give: nothing further. That is what a Wikia—an encyclopedia—is meant for. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 19:37, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, my point about Kakashi isn't that he can use the eight gates, its that his abilities in the taijutsu are more than just basic. Again, I am not trying to glorify it or right an entire "novel" as you put it, I am just saying that needs more detail. Steveo920, 14:50, December 23, 2013


 * No, it really doesn't need more detail. Detail is for the manga to work out. We work out summaries. Plain and simple. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:01, December 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm in full agreement of trimming down this article (and some others, but that's for another time). Madara Uchiha is one of the series' most popular characters among the fans, so it is easy to subconsciously blow his feats out of proportion. Emphasis should be on his dojutsu prowess, but everything should be concise and summarized. I can help out with the personality section as well though, since I've done minor work in said areas in the past. --Kakashi Namikaze - talk 14:20, December 25, 2013 (UTC)

Elderly pic for infobox?
Currently it's the most recent pic of Madara when he was alive that's animated. The current photo doesn't show his revived self at all so what do you guys think? --Mandon (talk) 17:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * ...But he's regained his youth...that was from a flashback. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 17:49, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

There's currently no image of him post rinne-tensei in the anime though. The one we're currently using doesn't even resemble his current appearance, it's just a pic of him in his edo-tensei form. --Mandon (talk) 17:52, January 9, 2014 (UTC)
 * Look, what is posted in the infobox is what the character currently looks like the anime. Once Hashirama vs. Madara is animated, a pic of living Madara will likely be uploaded. Until then, this will suffice.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 17:57, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well I don't know much about the image guidelines EDIT: By that I mean the factors in choosing an infobox image. not the actual guidelines, but I'm just saying the current image isn't a photo of him while he's alive. And he doesn't look exactly like that in the current chapters. We thought his post-RT appearance would resemble his edo tensei body and that's why the image was decided upon, but clearly that wasn't the case. --Mandon (talk) 18:03, January 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * There is absolutely no way the picture of Elderly Madara is gonna be used. The picture we have is the closet to an image we've known him throughout the entire manga, not just 2 chapters. So I repeat, there is absolutely no way that picture is gonna be used.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:46, January 9, 2014 (UTC)

You don't have the authority to make that decision, Ultimate. I brought up this discussion so that everyone can decide which photo would be best. So far you and Omega have spoken out against it, and I've voiced why I'm for it, so let's see what everyone else thinks. My point still stands, the current photo isn't a living photo of him. The sole reason it was even considered was because we thought that's how he would look after being revived, since his eyes didn't burn out until the next chapter, so whether or not we use his elderly appearance, I don't think the current image is appropriate for the infobox. Those are just my thoughts. --Mandon (talk) 00:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * First, it's TheUltimate3 and I accept TU3 for short. Second, ain't no way photo of old elderly Madara is gonna be used, especially when that is by far his least notable appearance in the manga/anime/whatever.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 02:16, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Third a picture of him alive is preferred, but not when it is completely contradictory to what we have seen him in most of the series. We've seen old man Madara in two chapters. We've seen young, ready to fight Madara for a quarter of the manga. It's not rocket science on which one will be used. And beacuse you made this topic I will give you a hint; it will not be Elderly Madara.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 02:17, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Does it matter what I call you? You know I'm talking to you so it matters not. Back on topic.. Old Man Madara is the most recent living picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child, so I don't exactly buy that argument. In any case I really don't care which photo we use, as long as it isn't a photo where he's reanimated. I'm going strictly by the reason we used it originally, which was that we thought that's how he would look after his true revival. It wasn't, so we should change it back to the old picture from Onoki's flashback or use a photo of him as an old man as a placeholder since it's more recent. I've raised my points and you've raised yours, and unless someone else comments there's no chance of it being changed anyways so let's see where this goes. --Mandon (talk) 02:59, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes what I'm called is very important. I don't call you MadaraFan01 do it?
 * But seriously the picture of him doesn't even look like he was Reincarnated, the only way you'll know is if you read the manga. And we don't work for just them. We work for the fandom as a whole, and as a whole, adult Madara with red armor is his most iconic appearance. Old Man Madara is not. There is absolutely no reason to use an image of him at his most obscure, other than my personal president that we use images of them alive.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 03:07, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Is there an actual precedent against edo tensei images? If the anime offers no good living options and, in fact, Madara has spent a majority of his screentime as an edo tensei, what's wrong with using it? When the anime reaches Hashirama's flashbacks then, sure, replace it with a living photo. But in the meantime...? ~SnapperTo 03:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * No there isn't. Or at least there shouldn't be. I have just been very vocal in the past about, if available, having a picture of a character alive instead of the cracks and black eyes of Reincarnation. But Madara here shows no visible signs of Reincarnation so even by my old standards, he passes.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 03:32, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no? Yet it still isn't a particularly good image. Are you going to insist on an inferior picture merely because of some not-actual guideline? I would point out that Mū is in the same boat, where there are living options, but they aren't used because they are a) bad, and b) he's known better dead anyway.
 * There's also Gari and Pakura, but they've probably got some complicated manga > anime reasoning I wouldn't follow... ~SnapperTo 03:48, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure if you are still speaking to me or Mandon... If it's at me, I just don't want Elder Madara and see no reason to use it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 03:57, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

There's a difference. I'm not calling you something obscure that has no relevance to your name. if I call you ultimate you at least know I'm talking to you. It's not a big deal. Anyways, there are plenty of images to use Snapper. In fact, we've used them before we switched to the corrent photo. The greyscaled image of him with his gunbai for example, or the one from Onoki's flashback. And if we're allowed to use Edo Tensei photos, there are plenty of images better than the one we're currently using. --Mandon (talk) 05:33, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * I was speaking to TheUltimateMuscle, just in case anyone wanted to know.
 * My point was that there are currently no good images of living Madara from the anime. He's either too old, too grayscaled, or wearing too much atypical clothing. In the absence of a good living image, I see no reason to not use a good dead image, at least until such time that there is a good living image. ~SnapperTo 08:08, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well if we all come to an agreement that ET images with noticable ET traits like cracks and black sclera are okay, then we can easily snuff out a better image than the one we're currently using. --Mandon (talk) 09:15, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure if it's still relevant, but to answer your question about why Gari and Pakura images, pictures of them Reincarnated was chosen because the only not-Reincarnated pictures that exist for them is Anime-Only, and everyone should be well aware by now how much that is a buzz-word around here.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:31, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Why can't we make a compromise??? Do people have to be so stubborn and egocentric? Can someone explain why can't we use both manga and anime images? In my opinion that would be the best, with manga image of his current revived status and anime image of his last recent living appearance, which would be (fortunately not to Ulti's delight) the grandpa one--Elveonora (talk) 13:43, January 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * The issue is convoluted and stupid (and yes I am talking about myself too). Some don't want anime images at all if a manga one exists, some what uniform consistency, some has followed through with the manga and anime depictions but then the problem comes how do you incorporate that with every character, then the whole Part I and Part II thing passed. Then you add this one where really come on, Grandpa Madara is in no way iconic enough for an image, but based on the very unofficial rule I myself championed would/could be used and here is the discussion.
 * It's really a big mess.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:30, January 10, 2014 (UTC)

Is there any reason why we can't just use tabs for Madara like the infobox for Obito? Also, Elve has a point, I think manga images could and should be appropriate under special circumstances. If you could take a minute to go to the One Piece Wikia and look at the infoboxes for each character, you'll see that they use both manga and anime images in separate tabs on both the pre-timeskip and post-timeskip sections in said box. So like, say a character that appeared in the first half appears in the second half, then a manga image is used until an anime photo comes along, and even then both images are still there to view. Obviously both our wiki and theirs have completely different code so I'm not sure how that would work, but it's something to consider. --Mandon (talk) 00:28, January 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to not use tabs for Madara, but on the same token there is barely a reason we do use tabs on Tobi. In terms of sticking four images in the infobox, I don't know if our infoboxes are even designed to do that. It's possible, but we had to wait like half a year to get a functional two tab thing working and I don't know if it works beyond that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:38, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

We could just do an "Alive" and "Reincarnated" thing for the infobox. We don't need 4 tabs for that. EDIT -- But then there's the question of whether or not there's a real point in using multiple tabs. If edo tensei images are acceptable, and he already appears with his iconic look, then I don't really see a reason to care.. to be perfectly honest. Preferably an image that shows him at a better angle would be more ideal but that's just me. --Mandon (talk) 01:25, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Alive and reincarnated have barely any differences. superficial at best so that would not make sense. And It'll have to suffice until more usable living!Madara images are available.

"Old Man Madara is the most recent living picture of him. We used a photo of adult Nagato after the pain arc even though we technically saw a lot more of him as a child"-exactly. We use current in series pictures if available. adult Nagato=not a flashback. Old Madara=flashback.

"Sort of a convenient misrepresentation, no?"- well its what works best. If you notice Hanzo has a similar situation. the anime fucked up and gave him normal eyes, so instead of having both anime/manga images, we use one of ET Hanzo because in canon he has dark sclera so it works.--RexGodwin (talk) 11:49, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Did Anyone Notice?
Did anyone notice two of the following things:
 * Madara was able to go into sage mode after absorbing Hashirama's chakra, but Hashirama himself wasn't in sage mode
 * Madara bit his arm, causing it to bleed, to manipulate the rods in Hashi's back upon his resurrection.-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 04:03, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Really? I haven't had an idea why did he bite his arm all along.--Elveonora (talk) 12:51, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, you can see Hashirama's senjutsu chakra flowing from Hashi's body to Madara's through the wound Madara caused on himself by biting his left arm.--JOA20 (talk) 12:59, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yea, but is it significant, and how did he access Hashi's senjutsu, if he wasnt in sage mode? He wasnt even gathering any at all in their fight.-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 15:07, January 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * There were these clones of Naruto that despite being used to gather senjutsu chakra to allow the original body to re-enter Sage Mode didn't have the Sage Mode markings. And Hashirama was still for some moments, enough in my humble opinion to gain enough senjutsu chakra for Madara.--JOA20 (talk) 15:27, January 14, 2014 (UTC)

Hear Me Out
Ok, so i'm trying to edit Madara's article according to what occurred in today's chapter. I want to exercise these points, but seeing as there is much stress over what goes in/out Madara's page, i want to run by you guys first. I mean, one slip up and you're called a "Madara Fanboy".(haha!) Here we go:
 * Madara's Susano'o shield (mabye make into a seprete unnamed technique?
 * Madara's reflexes to avoid Tobirama's Hiraishin (twice?)
 * TELEKINESIS!!!!?
 * And his ability to just outright rip the tailed beat right out of both Naruto and Bee.-- Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:12, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * No.
 * Yes.
 * No!
 * Yeah, drop the beat! No, he just took less longer than Obito did. Seelentau 愛議 14:15, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

WOW!! That made me laugh out loud, haha. But a few Q's that need A's. No to making the Susano'o shield a separate tech? and are we still discussing the "levitation" to be a probable unnamed Rinnegan tech?--KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:20, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes to no and no, that's conclusion-jumping and we don't do that here. Seelentau 愛議 14:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

The shield is no different in my opinion that a ribcage manifestation, a pic for the variant would be nice tho--Elveonora (talk) 14:29, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

Either way, I strive to only make appropriate edits. So ill get to it. Revision of my edit would be helpful.--KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 14:34, January 15, 2014 (UTC)

The paralyzing air.
Hi everyone, wanna ask a question. In the last chapter, didn't Madara seems or can we assumed the he used Banchou Tenin? THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 20:09, January 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Didn't function like Basnsho Ten'in. Bansho Ten'in pulls the target towards the user. Madara stopped Sasuke while he was jumping at him and held him there.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:15, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's obvious Nagato didn't show us everything the Rinnegan has to offer. After all, the eyes are Madara's or rather Izuna's ._. Well, you get it. For all we know, each Path has 5 or more techniques, making it even more overpowered than already is when used to its fullest extent--Elveonora (talk) 21:11, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Then, we could assume that come from the Rinnegan? I'm not so sure, but Madara was looking at Sasuke when it happened. Like the Rinbou Hingoku, but not sure. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 08:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

Fighting Sasuke Blind
Hi there. I know everyone has been trying very hard to trim down Madara's page, but I had one small piece of information that I think should be added to Madara's Taijutus section. It is worth mentioning that in Chapter 657 he was capable of fighting Sasuke (who was armed with his sword and Mangekyo Shiringan) to a standstill even though Madara was completely blind at the time. --Raizerninja (talk) 00:34, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sort of mentioned already, indirectly, in the ninjutsu section, where his sensing is mentioned. The reason why he was able to do it blind is because sensing made up for it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:52, January 23, 2014 (UTC)

Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path
Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. It can repel which is exactly one of the main abilities of the Deva Path. Remember the Deva Path includes repelling and attracting as its abilities. I don't see how it's speculative to say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path. Is obvious Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path jutsu since it repels. This is enough evidence so say Rinbo: Hengoku is Deva Path.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 04:01, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * What if it's a technique that sends some kind of invisible chakra punch? Like taijutsu, but even faster and with chakra? Seelentau 愛議 04:22, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

It's already stated in the Rinbo: Hengoku article that Rinbo: Hengoku has an invisible force that is powerful enough to repel the tailed beasts so is not a chakra punch. This shows Rinbo: Hengoku has a repulsive force. Also Deva Path is stated to have attractive and repulsive forces. Based on this Rinbo: Hengoku's parent jutsu is Deva Path since it has a repulsive force similar to Shinra Tensei.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 05:04, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that chakra is usually invisible, right? Now, sure it's likely it is a Deva Path technique. But the wiki finds it best to keep out speculation, which is what this is, really. Skitts (talk) 07:59, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Even though its invisible it is still agreeable that it has a repulsive force. Considering the fact it was used by the rinnegan and it has a repulsive force, Rinbo: Hengoku is a Deva Path for sure. Its not speculation if it clearly demonstrates one of the main abilities of the parent jutsu.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:33, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

Missing Tools?
I think their are some tools and weapons that are missing, and that should be added, such as the shakujo, and the chakra receivers are some of the weapons that are missing, how about adding that, it makes sense since he used them in his most recent battle in the war. Another thing worth mentioning is partners shouldn't it include Izuna, Spiral Zetsu and Zetsu.?--JustaNobody (talk) 20:19, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Could you please properly format your text instead of making it look like a ransom note made of newspaper articles? About your questions, no. Chakra receiver was long changed to a jutsu page regarding how they come to be instead of having several different tool variations. He's not yielding an actual shakujo, he's just making the chakra take the form of one. Obito isn't listed as using them either. Unless they give that an actual name and call it an actual tool, like the did with Sword of Nunoboko, that doesn't happen. In the context of two-men teams, Madara was not partnered with any of those. With Izuna, he was alongside his entire clan, Zetsu clones aren't partners to him, their minions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

Missing another unique ability?
I think he is missing another unique ability that he possesses and shares with both Zetsu and Spiral Zetsu, namely his ability to telepathic communicate with both of the former characters. So is it worth mentioning?--JustaNobody (talk) 20:38, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, because he's never done it. Stop trying to hype Madara with every edit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:34, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

I am just trying my best to contribute not to hype him up. That's all.--JustaNobody (talk) 22:48, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

He has done, it and in fact he did it to black zetsu, he told black zetsu telepathically that he was going to play with the 5 kages a little longer before he set out on the plan, and he told black zetsu what to do for the plan.. all via telepathic link to one another. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:46, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yet again, every Zetsu can talk to each other via telepathy. I think that's just a common thing that comes with them, just as they don't need food or water. I guess Madara can communicate with Black Zetsu because it's basically a copy of himself (compare Yamato and his Wood Clone, they can do such things too). Idontcareaboutmyname (talk) 12:08, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Mentioning a chapter would be useful. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it is general telepathy, only telepathy to his will, black zetsu. I don't remember chapter number but

http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_Madara's_trump_card

This talks about the chapter basically. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:55, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * Still needing something more specific. Madara versus the Five Kage spanned across three or four volumes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:18, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * ~SnapperTo 22:28, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

That ^ solved it, chapter 657 page 10 ItachiWasAHero (talk) 22:31, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Ok, so Madara spoke telepathically, but only with Black Zetsu, not Zetsu in general, as it was claimed in the beginning of this article. Probably something to do with BZ being part of his will. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:43, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Absorbing Chakra isn't a unique trait. Several other shinobis have been capable of it. Unique means no one else is capable of it.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 07:46, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Unique can mean unusual or rare, he is one of only a few characters that has the ability to absorb chakra without needing to use a special technique to do it.TricksterKing (talk) 02:10, March 22, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 21:11, March 23, 2014 (UTC)

Introduction?
I don't really understand what's so harmful about detailing certain facts about him in the intro. We do this with every single article for a character but all of a sudden it's clutter to mention that Madara's a Jinchuriki? Might as well do the same for the rest of them (Naruto, B, Roshi, etc) --Mandon (talk) 07:44, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * The introduction is supposed to be a brief introduction of the character, leading into the article. For a lot of characters (Notable offenders in my mind is Tobi, Madara, and Kurama) where their intro because a place where their entire background section and current chapter status had been stuffed. That is bad. If anything the introductions should have been made in a way that they could remain static forever, not changing at the whim of the newest chapter.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:21, February 12, 2014 (UTC)


 * That's a ridiculous argument. Naruto, B, etc. have been jinchuriki since the day they appeared, and as such being a jinchuriki is fundamental to their characters. Madara's been a jinchuriki for two chapters. Zero similarity. ~SnapperTo 16:56, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

he is 179cm not 182cm
Where is the proof for 182cm?? I am changing it back to 179 until databook, manga, or author himself give a number differing than 179 ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:49, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * You could check the edit history of the infobox and ask the person who changed it directly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:03, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

Summoning: Shinju?
Is this also worth adding that he had summoned the Ten-Tailed Beast to his list of techniques alongside Sage Mode? Just wondering is all.--JustaNobody (talk) 02:47, February 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * Are we sure that was summoning and not the Gedo Mazo disappearing and Ten-Tails reappearing as part of its transformation? It seems to have disappeared out of the Uchiha Flame Formation last time it transformed.--BeyondRed (talk) 05:43, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Gedo Mazo/Shinju are one and the same entity, all Rinnegan users can summon it.--Elveonora (talk) 12:07, February 13, 2014 (UTC)

Lightning Element
Surely Madara should be attributed all elements? He has the Rinnegan and knows every other jutsu out there. The Rinnegan allowed Nagato to master all elements. It's all but been demonstrated that Madara has command of all elements.--Reliops (talk) 00:43, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara's natural aptitude for ninjutsu may be similar to Hiruzen's and his possession of the Rinnegan certainly give him the "potential" to use all five elements, but that doesn't mean Madara has actually bothered to learn it. Steveo920, 19:50, February 15, 2014
 * Yes. Nagato is only listed as having them all because were told he learned them all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:57, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

TRimming down
He have won thanks to the throne on performance and strength phenomenal, in many cases, can be seen well, why did you not understand is I do not want to pay tribute?
 * Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? Seelentau 愛議 01:23, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what the OP is trying to say. Now, I usually try to keep the article from getting bloated from new info. Still feel like Madara's article is bigger than it should be though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:27, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara's are not bloathed It is not the complete opposite it will be thorough. Or Seelentau, what is OP and mean what you?

What the...? ._.--Elveonora (talk) 14:21, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * (- _-) I will not stand for his trolling behaviour.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)-Talk-Contributions 18:14, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Why am I assuming your trolling am you are you in the world? If you do not understand, once again, read my question! By the way, I am a girl


 * Oh this article is very bloated, and it is way bigger than it needs to be. I tried trimming it though, and the results were all reverted with small token removals. Honestly this article is just gonna be stupid big for no reason and there is very little that can be done with it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not quite. True, some users have a fixation with bloating this article through numerous small edits, but I usually revert those edits, since they only add more of the same, which this article doesn't need. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:21, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

You guys do not understand, he is the strongest character and best, therefore, why, you need to have it does not explain everything, the best, the article of the largest he?Iloveinoxxx (talk) 14:18, February 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * I fear I may start disregarding your opinion on matters ILoveInoXXX. If for no other reason then how you stated why he should have a bloated article...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:55, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

On the issue of height,
It seems Obito is the same height as Madara according to chapter 665, so maybe databook 4 will list Madara around 175cm instead. Just a quick point out of something is all ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:51, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

667 info
It seems that the 8th gate causes Red Steam and Madara has fought and survived against 8th gate users in the past as evidenced by him even knowing about the red steam. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:31, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara knows more about the shinobi history than anyone else. So it's normal that he knows what the green and red steam means. Seelentau 愛議 07:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, well that is generally true. But I doubt that he knows it on history alone. He fought in the war torn era and the uchiha monument speaks less generally on history so i doubt that it mentions anything about the 8 gates. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:56, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * He lived really long, there's plenty of times he could've fought a Taijutsu user on Guy's level. Seelentau 愛議 07:58, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Just because he knows how the eighth gate works, it doesn't necessarily mean he's fought someone who used it. For all we know, he watched someone fight, or even was just told about it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:46, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi worth adding?
Is it worth adding Sasuke's Sword of Kusanagi because he used it temporarily on Sasuke to fatally wound him? In Madara's tools section?
 * Do we even list Itachi who used it for longer than that?--Elveonora (talk) 18:59, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think using a tool once would be enough to list the respective person as a wielder, but the majority here seems to think otherwise. But then again, why do people like Deidara or Kurotsuchi have "Sword" in their infobox when they used it in just one episode in two or maybe three instances? Noweeaboohoo (talk) 19:10, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Lack of common direction/bias in some cases I would say. I guess what some would consider a "proper" usage would be either of them channeling their chakra through it or something--Elveonora (talk) 19:19, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now THAT would dwindle the user-part of the sword's infobox since hardly any of them does such a thing with them. Anyway, I get the "prominent usage" thing, but almost killing the second main character with a certain tool or having one major antagonist realise the crap he's in due to using the same tool to cut of his body parts seems to be prominent enough IMO. This whole case looks a bit premature, might need more discussion. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 19:26, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Shoot, if someone picks it up and wields it, it should be added. --Now....Fall Under my Ultimate Genjutsu (talk) 19:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * There is and has always been a difference between listing someone as a use of a generic item - sure whatever, vs listing them as wielders of a named tool. If someone takes up the Kohaku no Johei and uses it as a bludgeoning tool, they are to be listed as using the item? Apply that train of thought to listing people as users of items.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:29, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Overestimation in the Juubi Jinchuriki abilities section
Two issues with this part of the article. Minato only said Madara had greater power in his Juubi Jin form than Obito, not "much" great power like the article says. Also, the article says that because he cut through Minato's body while in sage mode, that it means that he has less vulnerability to Sage mode. That is a ridiculous leap in logic, and it implies that Juubi Jinchuriki Obito would not be able to cut Minato in sage mode with a direct hit, which is simply nonsense.

My proposed changes are that we remove the "much" part in Madara's Juubi power in comparison to Obito, and remove the entire sentence about him being less vulnerable to Sage mode chakra because it's pure nonsense.

Kenny U (talk) 01:29, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U

UPDATE: As of now it has been fixed to an acceptable state, so that is fine now.

Kenny U (talk) 01:44, March 24, 2014 (UTC) Kenny U

New Jinchuriki Image
Hi there, I noticed that the image used to show Madara as the Shinju's Jinchuriki is a little outdated, and I wondered if this could be considered as a replacement.
 * File:Madara_Rikudo_HD.png

--RIkudo (talk) 02:03, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

I could be wrong (But I'm not) But these images appear to be the exact same one, except yours is kinda grainy, and has cut off part of Madara's foot and one of his floaty orbs, while maintaining a text box I don't think is necessary. I'm not trying to be rude, and maybe they've replaced it or something since you put up this topic, but it would seriously appear to be a downgrade. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:11, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, in that case, sorry. And don't worry, you weren't rude, you were honest, and I appreciate that. --RIkudo (talk) 02:20, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Same as a past revision of the current image we use for that, that wasn't used precisely because there's a part of the right page missing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:39, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Sensor
I don't think Madara is a sensor. First of all, the reference to when he was a child is stupid. He says he's sensitive, not he's a sensor. Second, even people who aren't sensor ninjas can sense strong chakra. Suigetsu and Karin did so with Naruto's chakra. Is there anything else that hints at Madara being a sensor? If not, I suggest we remove that part. Seelentau 愛議 18:55, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * The only instances that indicate that Madara is a sensor I recall are the detection of Hashirama, when he was still far away from the battlefield. Madara was the only at that moment that seemed to detect it, so even if Hashirama has strong chakra, him being the only one reacting to it for me indicates sensor abilities. There was also that one time when the Alliance did that huge combo against the Ten-Tails' first form, and Obito said something about them being incapable of sensing the Alliance after the dust and insects came into play, which always confused me a bit because he said that after trying to use the Sharingan. All other displays of sensor like ability I can think of are post theft of Hashirama's senjutsu chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:06, April 1, 2014 (UTC)

Don't even try this one Seel. Why do you think he can't pee when someone stands behind, because he senses them of course.--Elveonora (talk) 22:23, April 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Elve, do you really want me to check the raw? :D
 * Omni-kun, wouldn't Madara need to knead his chakra to sense Hashirama? Like Tobirama didn't do back then when they were kids? I don't think there are "automatic sensors"... Seelentau 愛議 10:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Figure he just molded his chakra during that moment. And there may or may not be automatic sensors.--Elveonora (talk) 12:24, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Was there ever anyone who didn't need to do anything to sense chakra? Seelentau 愛議 12:39, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Naruto in chakra mode and sage mode?--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's a special form, not something every sensor ninja has. Seelentau 愛議 12:48, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Now you have something more in the table, Naruto sensed Indra inside Sasuke's, so there is a possibility that Madara sensed Hashirama because they had the same conection. Just wondering. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 13:00, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Seel, even though Madara wasn't in the fight at the moment, I find it highly unlikely that he wouldn't at the very least be prepared to leap into it at a moment's notice, and that would include having chakra ready to use. Indra and Asura's chakra is still a situation outside normal sensor limits, if it indeed allows them to detect one another. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:21, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Unique Traits
Madara was able to use Susanoo without using his Rinnegan. What's to say he can't use the Preta Path without the Rinnegan as well? If so that doesn't count as a unique trait. Cloudtheavenger (talk) 07:13, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The reason why he could use Susanoo with the Rinnegan was revealed to be because Susanoo doesn't even require any eyes at all.--Elveonora (talk) 12:47, April 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Where was this mentioned?--Taynio (talk) 21:07, April 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Re-read the chapters after Madara gets revived with Rinne Tensei and his eyes crumble. He used Susanoo without eyes there--Elveonora (talk) 22:52, April 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Or it just means it has mastered his doujutsu to an extend he can use them (to an extent since he didn't or couldn't manifest the final Susanoo) without his eyes.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 06:19, April 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * If no one can counter it then I'm requesting deletion of his unique trait.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 04:39, April 12, 2014 (UTC)

Notice the Eye?
Did anyone else notice from the latest chapter that Madara gained the juubi's eye on his forehead, similar to Kaguya's sharingan on her head?Jtw2014 (talk) 21:56, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Jtw2014
 * We don't really know what to make of that panel. We were either shown that Madara has the third eye on his forehead under the headband or Kaguya. I would have said the former myself, but that doesn't explain why then would Kishi draw Madara's normal eyes as white. If it were Madara, it would have made more sense to draw the third eye, right Rinnegan and left eye closed.--Elveonora (talk) 21:59, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Madara's new Jinchuriki form has started to rise above the one Hagoromo had, with its tomoes at the sleeves, and his horn like appendages(one of which looks like a rabbit's ear) he started to resemble Kaguya. Gerisama (talk) 08:24, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

Storm release
Can we wait until the full chapter comes out before adding this stuff? It really spoiles it for those that can't read japanese. Derigar (talk) 14:27, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why? We document what is known, there is a spoiler warning on the front page, so there's that. • Seelentau 愛議 14:37, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you like... serious? A mere visit to this place equals getting spoiled. You basically can't be an editor without knowing most the stuff, so just don't come here--Elveonora (talk) 14:42, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * And you get on Ten Tailed Fox for being rude...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:45, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Please don't go and tell people not to come here, that's rude. Unfortunately, you're kinda right with it, though. This is not a page were we list information released in English, but in Japanese, too. We're up-do-date, not up-to-some-fan's-date. • Seelentau 愛議 14:50, April 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Excuse my honesty then. But visiting this place and not wanting to get spoiled is like being hungry and entering a supermarket, then asking them to hide the goods because hanging them in front of your face makes you even more hungry.--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

To be fair, we were really quick with those information this time. The next time we get any kind of spoilers, we wait until the full chapter is released, alright? • Seelentau 愛議 15:04, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

What does this have to do with Storm Release? and I also think you shouldn't be a user if you don't know all of the stuff. Munchvtec (talk) 15:49, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Question. Madara`s Ranton is KKG or it TBS?Rage gtx (talk) 16:05, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be clear by now that YYR allows users access to all 5 basic elements and mix them as they please.--Reliops (talk) 01:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Well well, what a bunch of hypocrits. Remove storm release, and wait before making these edits. Derigar (talk) 14:17, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Before calling others hypocrits, would you please read this?--JOA20 (talk) 14:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Madara's Storm Release (and whatever other advanced nature he showcases other than Wood Release) probably comes from whatever Naruto is also getting them from. Either from the tailed beasts (he still has their chakra, as Obito was able to rip some of Gyuki and Shukaku), or some measure of that mixed with the "senjutsu of the Six Paths" as Madara called, whatever that is. Madara says he has both Naruto and Sasuke's powers, so wherever Naruto gets his, so does Madara. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Sage Classification
As of chapter 674, Madara has used techniques specifically called "Sage Art". Please add Sage to Madara's classification section. Steveo920, 11:33, April 22, 2014

Using Senjutsu chakra alone doesn't make one a Sage. Otherwise Jugo would have been long listed, so would Curse Mark users. In my opinion a proper Sage is someone who can absorb natural energy from his/her surroundings--Elveonora (talk) 15:44, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Wrong, the senjutsu page specifically states that a sage is one that manipulates and utilizes senjutsu chakra, which Madara has done. Riptide240 (talk) 15:49, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I also believe he is a sage now. Munchvtec (talk) 15:50, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Then the page/s need to be updated. Calling those who wield Senjutsu chakra without having absorbed nature energy and molded some Sages is like calling jinchuurikis Tailed Beasts because they wield the Tailed Beasts' chakras.--Elveonora (talk) 15:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

A sage is a sage and a jinchuriki is a jinchuriki. Tailed beast=beast with tails hmmm lets see jinchuriki can gain tails but never really have one and there not really beasts so yeah. Munchvtec (talk) 16:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * If Madara is a Sage then so are Jugo and Curse Mark wielders, that's all I'm saying. Madara got his Senjutsu from Hashirama and Shinju, no training and stuff.--Elveonora (talk) 16:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Senjutsu is not the same as sage arts but then why did madara call it sage art then? Munchvtec (talk) 16:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's the same. Senjutsu refers both to senjutsu chakra (chakra mixed with natural energy and balanced) and brand of techniques using said chakra. We haven't been told that there is a difference between "sage art:" and "sage technique:"--Elveonora (talk) 16:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

So then maybe we should label them as sages as well. Riptide240 (talk) 16:23, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Pre-jinchuriki Madara, I don't consider a Sage. He stole Hashirama's senjutsu chakra, he didn't make it himself. Jinchuriki Madara, I'm still murky about that, but choosing not to list him as such until other stuff gets clarified. I get that the Shinju is one giant mass of natural energy, but natural energy alone doesn't make senjutsu, it's blending that with chakra. I'm deeply thorn between my desire to bash Kishimoto in the head for doing the same with the logic of the manga and my desire to see the manga through the end. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Either way he should have a senjutsu section in his ability page, given that he used senjutsu abilities...and he may be considered a sage...the Sage of the 6 is considered a sage but his power came from the Shinju...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:21, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

We don't know if Hagoromo was a Sage because of Senjutsu. After all he was Sage OF THE Six Paths--Elveonora (talk) 12:01, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

Kakashi's Mangekyō Sharingan in Infobox
In chapter 674, Madara steals Kakashi's left Sharingan and he can use Kamui easily. He control this eye and its abilities completely. You guys, what do you think about this?--Sulina (talk) 17:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Error
I don't see Kamui listed in Madara's jutsu can someone fix that?--Rinneganmaster (talk) 19:54, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Null edit Kamui's article, then null edit Madara's article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:53, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how to do it so someone should do it instead.--Rinneganmaster (talk) 23:15, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

Straight tomoe Sharingan
Can anyone explain what Madara means with this? Derigar (talk) 00:17, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * How can we explain something that is yet to be explained by the author?--Elveonora (talk) 12:33, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * I find Madara's statement about straight tomoe quite odd. Sasuke I understand why his EMS would be straight tomoe, neither his original MS nor Itachi's had straight tomoe, but Sasuke's EMS had. Madara's original MS didn't have straight tomoe, Izuna's are the ones that looked straight, and after Madara transplanted those eyes, there was no change in the basic design of the tomoe like it happened with Sasuke. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:05, April 24, 2014 (UTC)