Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-37265641-20181022021850/@comment-35409024-20181205102025

CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai The reason I said you are biased is for a few reasons. One, you keep putting words in my mouth. I said Itachi is only invincible while he is wielding both the blade and the mirror, as stated in the canon. How is that so hard to understand? Seriously, reread all my posts. If you think I'm being judgmental, then I'll tone down my posts, but if you actually stopped putting words in my mouth that would be nice.

I stated from the beginning, Itachi has two major weaknesses. He doesn't start in susano'o. If you are fast enough, you can blitz him before he activates it. Two, he has shit stamina and a terminal illness, which means he isn't holding up the mirror long enough against multiple high level opponents. He will succumb to his stamina and die eventually.

It doesn't matter if Itachi is your favorite character or not. Our discussion is about the abilities of the Yata Mirror. The point is the Yata mirror turns back any attack, full stop. The reason I said you were biased was because you made predictable comments like: "You really that delusioned to think Naruto and Sasuke at this current time can't beat Itachi while his Susano'o is up? Sheesh." What does the current Naruto and Sasuke have to do with the shown feats and description of the Yata mirror, absolutely nothing.

No I don't have to prove anything. The bottomline is, Itachi has bound those weapons to his susano'o. There is no evidence that he can currently wield them without it, even if that was the case when he originally found those weapons. The burden of proof is on you to claim that he can. The fact that he doesn't wield them 24/7 would imply there is a cost. Even if there is none, Itachi made the conscious decision to bind them to his susano'o, which costs chakra to maintain. Kunai, swords, and shurikens aren't the same as a spiritual weapon. Paper bombs cost chakra, and any other relevant tool of a similiar category does. The proof is that he didn't use the yata mirror to block kirin. Going by your logic, he could have simply spawned the yata mirror out of his ass and blocked the attack, yet he clearly attributed his survival to his susano'o. That in of itself proves that he must achieve the complete body susano'o before he can wield the mirror, end of story. There isn't even physical evidence that he managed to elevate that far. In my opinion, he only got up to the skeletal susano'o based on all the evidence.

More putting words in my mouth. When did I state that growing and moving are the exact same thing? nowhere. I simply said the mirror grows to adapt to the attack, and if it must, it can move on it's own based on the databook description. It wasn't seen moving in the canon because that wasn't a necessary adapation, growing in size satisfied itachi's needs.

Furthermore, you missed the context of what I said. The mirror clearly was seen moving because it has the sfx:whoosh, which means rapid movement through the air. Again, Chapter 393 pg 6. The mirror rapidly expanded in height, and in this CONTEXT, movement refers to the shield shrinking through the air back to it's normal size. The shield grew but growing and shrinking through the air is a type of movement.

How am I supposed to take you seriously when you can't understand alternative uses for English words. Furthermore, you come at me even suggesting that I would use fake translations to support my argument, when you still haven't accessed the Viz scans and looked up the sfx dictionary for yourself. Like I said, the physical copies of naruto come with a sfx guide. If you don't have a physical copy, then I don't know what to tell you, there are plenty of methods online that you can use to get access to the information. I don't want you claiming I'm using false info, I want you to see it for yourself on your own accord. If you needed assistance, then you should have asked or gotten the resources before blurting out your claims.

Furthermore, Like I said, Kishimoto is right until proven wrong. I don't care about the databook claiming genin sasuke was light speed in reactions, because that was debunked well before that databook entry came out. The databook always has hyperbolic entries, and entries designed for trolling, like claiming sasuke has god like speed and can take on all the akatsuki, while on the same page showing his godlike speed being reacted to. There is a difference between those types of entries and entries that are supported by the manga and have not been debunked in any shape or form. I don't care about your subjective views about how you judge character credibility. Everyone has been wrong about something, period. Kabuto himself was the one who claimed hirzuen was the strongest and kabuto retracted that statment when he admitted he didn't know about hashirama's true power. The Fact that the databook and shown feats support Black Zetsu's statement debunks your claim. Kishimoto said the shield turns back any attack by altering it's attributes in accordance with the attack in his databook, so he is right until proven wrong.

Lol, and anyone who has watched Itachi's feats knows that Jiraiya isn't even a match for even a serious 3 tomoe Itachi. Jiraiya can't track his clone formation speeds, so he is gonna get stomped by an exploding shadow clone. Everyone knows Itachi was playing the role of a spy when he told kisame that Jiraiya was too much for Kisame + Itachi+ reinforcements. Kisame himself knew that, because after they retreated, he said to itachi "why did we have to retreat, with your power...?". Lmao, even Kisame knows itachi was jobbing to Jiraiya. Rofl, even Kisame alone is enough to beat Jiraiya. Kisame thought Jiraiya was stronger than him based on hype, but he didn't know what Jiraiya was actually capable of. In an actual fight Kisame would literally suck Jiraiya dry. Lion's mane? drained by samehada. Rasengan? drained by samehada. Suiton>katon. Sage mode is irrelevant because Kisame would drain jiraiya dry before he got the chance to turn kisame into stone. Jiriaya would have to fill Kisame with nature energy amounting to the size of Kisame's reserves, and Kisame in base has bijuu levels of chakra. Jiraiya is dead before that happens. With just two sword strikes, Kisame literally absorbed all of Killer Bee's chakra, to the point Killer Bee had to rely purely on Gyuki's chakra to fight Kisame, which says alot. Kisame and Itachi one versus one are two beasts out of Jiraiya's league, so Kisame and Itachi against Jiraiya is pure spite.

This is why I said you were biased, because you bring up statements that were clearly debunked by other statements and shown feats, which comes across like You are grasping at straws. But anyways, I did get a bit hotheaded, So I apologize.

Bruh. The viz doesn't have an sfx guide. I looked it up from up to down. Volume to volume. Literally sound effects aren't described in the Viz. If you have proof, post it. If not, I have nothing to discuss on the matter. I did the research and the research shows you're wrong. Nothing I can do about it.

Why couldn't Itachi wield them? They're items. Not Chakra weapons. Not Kekkei Genkai. What argument do you have that comes from the canon that even remotely hints that he cannot? There is absolutely no reason to even say that you can't wield them. I already made valid points. Orochimaru. They're items. All you have given is just made up stories on the matter. Nothing stemming from the canon. I'm supposed to trust in wild theories? No.

Kishimoto didn't say what you say he did. I don't know why you exaggerate. https://i.imgur.com/fGXONDB.png He said what i said he said. It can repel any attack. Can was used. A shield can block doesn't mean it does it on it's own. A sword can stab someone, doesn't mean it goes around stabbing on it's own. The Yata Mirror can repel any attack, doesn't mean it does it on it's own. I don't know why you don't understand the basics of literature. Zetsu's and the Databook's entry are not proof it can move on it's own accord.

You can call me biased all you want. You can say i put words in your mouth all you want. You said growth is proof it can move on it's own. CombatIQmatters wrote: Your semantics about movement is irrelevant, because the shield clearly must move in order to defend against atttacks. Growing in size, changing shape, is enough proof it can do that. Don't act ignorant. All I've said so far was exactly what you have said. If not, then you worded yourself wrong, cause I'm clearly not the only one taking it that way.

Although I agree that Itachi can beat Jiraiya, I doubt he would only need three tomoe. That's equivalent to saying he would beat Jiraiya with ease, and that is another reason why the Itachi fan community has such a bad rep. I doubt Jiraiya could be done in by a simple clone tactic. You're making him sound like an Academy Student whose intelligence is far lesser than Itachi's. I also don't think Kisame can beat him. Sage Mode Jiraiya is not some pushover fodder lesser than Kakashi.