Talk:Kakashi Hatake/Archive 4

Something to Possibly Add
I think it would be a worthwhile addition to work it in that when partnered with Guy, he was able to hold off several "Version 2" jinchuriki. However, I can't figure out how I would word it nor where to go. Does anyone else think it'd be a good addition and can find a good way to work it in the page? Skitts (talk) 17:20, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Anyone? Skitts (talk) 21:19, December 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * If it can be added, I would say add it to the end of the first paragraph in the Abilities section since it already mentions Pain being worried about him interfering with their plans. Joshbl56  21:38, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, good eye. I think I have a good way to word it. Improve it as you see fit. Skitts (talk) 21:47, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Equipment
Why is there no such section? Kakashi used chains while fighting Pain. --178.223.189.179 (talk) 18:54, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the infobox, there is a section called "tools". In that, I see the chain he used. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 18:57, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Attempt #1
The image of the profile is awful.. can't we change it??
 * If you have a better one from Part I (not Shippuden), then you can upload it as a suggestion. Make sure you upload it to a new file and add the necessary info (see my page for guidelines). Also, please sign your posts with four tildes (~) ~Hakinu (talk 15:27, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think Shippuden will also work, there's no difference at all. But I don't really see wrong with his image. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 16:02, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Lol, why can't Shippuden images being used if the character has not changed any noticeably? Thought that's only to portray how they looked at the start of the series ... Kakashi looks the same--Elveonora (talk) 17:22, April 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Hakinu The Shippuden image can be used in a case like Kakashi where his appearance does not change one bit. The Shippuden image cannot be used if there is a complete change of the character between Part I and Part II --Speysider (Talk Page) 17:54, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Attempt #2
I've found a better image from the latest episode, but I don't know whether I should crop it to a smaller size since the image I got was captured at 1920x1080 resolution. Should I upload the image as is and ask for your opinion on its suitability ? --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:12, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah Speysider please try to upload it. xD BTW Elveonora, that's my point, though. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 10:23, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done --Speysider (Talk Page) 10:26, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a good image, but I don't think the other's reaction about his eye. Many guys overlook the image too hard. xD —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 11:31, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the first place I dont see any reason to change the existing image. And @Speysider: Your image is good. But the eye seems to be a problem Salil2212™ Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 12:13, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * You seem to have no reason to change any of the images when some are poor quality or just plain suck. I don't see how the eye makes any difference, some other images have exactly the same issue and they are fine, so I don't see a problem with this one. The current Kakashi image makes it seem like he is bored and has no enthusiasm whereas the proposed one shows slightly better enthusiasm --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:18, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I will search for a better image and get back to you Salil2212™ Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 12:33, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't see a thing wrong with the image currently in Kakashi's infobox. It's centric, he's facing forward etc.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:07, April 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * He's facing forward as well in the proposed image ? --Speysider (Talk Page) 13:11, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup. So why change the image when both are almost same ? Salil2212™ Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 13:15, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems you won't relent, let's leave this here. Your being far too petty over simple things imo and you need to just let people try to improve the wiki, rather than destroy it. --Speysider (Talk Page) 13:17, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi's hair looks a bit short in that image from 258. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:32, April 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * It does seem a bit short, animation error though or the fact that's the only good scene I can use of Kakashi (might be able to use one nearer the end of the episode if possible) from this episode. --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:34, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Attempt #3
I have a good quality image replacement. Should i upload it ?--Salil (talk) 08:44, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Give it a shot Salil! —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 08:48, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done --Salil Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 09:22, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it. Any opinions guys? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 10:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * As Cerez said above, there isn't really a need to change the image. If there was a possibility of an image change, it would be better to use a higher quality one, as your one is slightly blurred. --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:00, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * My image is a png which is offcourse better than the jpg used now. I dont find it blurr at all. Also the eye in the existing image looks weird. --Salil Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 11:05, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know it is. Also, I wasn't saying "use the one I suggested above", I was merely pointing out that a different HD shot from the recent episodes would be better. --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:07, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

It is good as a temporary replacement though. And I never said that u wanted ur image. --Salil (talk) 11:13, May 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh lol, sorry for the misunderstanding about the image thing :P --Speysider (Talk Page) 11:13, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * So we can use that image now? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 11:22, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait for people besides the 3 of you to chime in.
 * I will not because I see nothing wrong with the current image and I'm sure this sentiment will lead nowhere in a prolonged discussion.--TheUltimate3 Uzumaki Symbol.svg (talk) 12:09, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know why, but when I make an opinion about a proposed image change, people seem to think the answer is yes, even when I say no. :/ --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:12, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then if you proposed an image they will say no. Weird. But Salil's image has better quality. I don't know guys WHICH KIND OF IMAGE you like. Most images are rejected, tell me what kind of image? —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 12:20, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was not me who started this disscussion . The only thing is that the image is of a low quality and HIS EYE LOOKS SMALL --Salil Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 12:24, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

I see no point in changing an already excellent image. The current one is of good quality, drawn properly and colored well by the animators, has Kakashi in his typical lazy-aloof expression and he's facing forward. If you can find an image that does all of that better, by all means show us, but I've yet to see one suggested that did so. And what's with the current "we must change every character's infobox image" wave? Skitts (talk) 13:58, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Must be the new thing that's going on the Narutopedia, I really don't like the proposed image either, the current one is fine the way it is. - White Flash - (Talk) - 19:08, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * You guys really need to let this movement die now. There's nothing wrong with the image so no need to change it...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:47, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Vandalised
Someone trolled the page again. Added something about him being a porn actor.
 * It's been taken care of.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:16, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Japanese Naming Issue
in the bottom trivia section, it says his name is 畑案山子, so then why is it written in hiragana then katakana at the top? on other pages you don't restrain yourself from using kanji. this wiki is very inconsistent

24.5.242.92 (talk) 03:30, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

yes, i agree, when there's kanji available, i think you should use it. or at least be consistent

Binatang (talk) 03:56, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, you're not getting it. Kakashi's name is written the way it's in the infobox, the fact it has the same pronunciation as that is meant to be a pun. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:58, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

then maybe in the trivia it should be more clear? it wasn't clear to the first poster, i think maybe cuz it doesn't specifically say that it's a play on words in the trivia part?b eh doesn't bother me too much

Binatang (talk) 04:03, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

With the "Kakashi" part, I'm not sure. It seems that when Kakashi is meant to mean scarecrow, as is the case with the character, it is usually written using kana alone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:07, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

oh yes, that is true. while kanji exists for the word kakashi, it's non-standard, and should be written in kana, only old people will still use kanji for this word, because the japanese language was not standardized until after world war II i guess this matter is resolved Binatang (talk) 04:11, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

ANBU Kakashi
Isn't that picture from a movie (non-canon material) ??? "_"--Elveonora (talk) 22:43, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the first movie. Though it's not the only instance where non-canon material is used to illustrate canon information. It's been replaced with something more canon. -- The Goblin  03:00, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Cool, just found it weird to have a scene from non-canon movie pasted there to showcase a canonical event. Same goes for younger Teuchi from the 4th Shippuden movie image, it's not canonical yet still used 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 14:58, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it not cannonical in the sense that it breaks the timeline barrier like the image of Tsunade meeting her grandfather or in the sense that it's from the movie? Because I believe once there's nothing wrong with the timeline of the image it can be used until we possibly get one from the manga. The same would go for Kurotsuchi as a child, how are we to know that she wasn't blonde and curly-haired otherwise?--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:03, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

The Kurotsuchi is questionable and for a review, that's why I brought it up :) and for Teuchi, not just it's from movie, but the timeline of Ichiraku Ramen opening is incorrect--Elveonora (talk) 15:20, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi's age during the Kakashi Gaiden
Is there any evidence which suggests Kakashi was 13 when he got promoted to Jonin? I'm having trouble finding evidence for the notion that he was 13 at the Gaiden.--Jingo12 (talk) 19:43, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * That comes from a pattern observed in the teams of Kohona. They all graduate at the same age, and Obito's age of death in the databooks is 13. Kakashi was promoted just before Obito died, so if they're the same age, he was promoted at age 13. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:20, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

You can even calculate it... 30-17=13, in Gaiden Kakashi was just recently promoted--Elveonora (talk) 02:31, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Though is there anything explicitly saying/suggesting that the Kakashi Gaiden took place 1 year prior the Kyuubi attack?

I get the pattern, though I always figured Kakashi's age was referenced at some point.--Jingo12 (talk) 00:12, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Because Minato was elected right after the war and got killed in a year?--Elveonora (talk) 00:23, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

He was only being given gifts for being Promoted to Jonin, he was 9 when he became a Jonin. Do the math with their graduation ages and use Chapter 599 and you will see, he's just big for his age and was a Genius of course so he advanced easily, but there is one problem, Itachi was 4 during the 3rd war and Kakashi is 9years 8months and 25days older than Itachi. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 02:16, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

No, Kakashi was surely promoted to Jounin at 13. Why would they give him gifts for his promotion 3 years later? ;D Basically you said it yourself, there's a problem... time-line screw up--Elveonora (talk) 10:14, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

You are right, he was promoted at 13. There is a timeline screw up. It can be remedied somewhat if they retcon what tobi said about itachi being 4 years when he got traumatized by the 3rd war. Then if they remove Kakashi and most of the others from most of the chapter 599 flashbacks, then it will be manageable. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 08:21, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

So there's no actual databook, manga or fan book statement to back this claim up? FallenAngelII (talk) 17:46, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Obito and Kakashi are the same year age and Obito died at 13 and is 7 Months and 5 days older than Kakashi. The 3rd war ended shortly after the Kannabi bridge was destroyed and then Minato was elected Hokage. Not long after that, a year at most.. Naruto was born and the Kyuubi attacked, Kakashi was 14 and 25days when the Kyuubi Attacked. Do the math, Kakashi Surely was 13 when he became Jonin and Obito died, also Kakashi is 9 years 8months and 25days older than Itachi. Do the math. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 16:12, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

But, they didn't graduate at the same age. Kakashi was four years younger when he graduated. (Anonymius (talk) 12:44, November 3, 2012 (UTC))

Sharingan Deterioration
In naruto manga 598 page 12 is possible to see blood dripping from kakashi's eye.
 * Yes.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:41, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Well, he wasn't using it as often as Itachi and Sasuke, so that explains the lateness of bleeding/sight degradation--Elveonora (talk) 13:51, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sasuke's eye bled the first time he cast Amaterasu (from Itachi's Tensha Fuuin). Kamui might just take much less strain on the eye than Amaterasu. Remember, Itachi's eye has never bled from casting Tsukuyomi. FallenAngelII (talk) 13:19, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Kishimoto Mess-Up in Chapter 599
Um.. Kakashi is said to have become Chuunin at the age of 6... in the manga he clearly looks 13 or older. Should this be noted?
 * See Talk:Obito Uchiha (chapter). -- The Goblin  08:16, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Added it to the trivia--Elveonora (talk) 15:04, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

Earth jutsu?
I don't see the Earth Wall jutsu he used against Deva Path under the jutsu section, shouldn't it be added since it says he uses Earth Release? 173.63.93.233 (talk) 20:53, September 3, 2012 (UTC)BobBob

"Due to the MediaWiki upgrade many parts of the site will appear broken such as filterable lists. We do ask that you bear with us as the issues are addressed" I say, make it red...--Elveonora (talk) 20:59, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * It is possible that some people's landing platform is Special:WikiActivity and not the homepage, in which case they wouldn't see the notice unless they're using Monobook.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:53, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * My suggestion is put it on community messages. 11:58, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

I don't go to the homepage, rather just go on google and type naruto [character name here] and it brings up the wiki page for that character instead. My bad. 173.63.93.233 (talk) 18:31, September 5, 2012 (UTC)BobBob

wait.. his rank should be Anbu
Since he was promoted to Anbu for many years after becoming Jonin at 13, even if he is not in the Anbu anymore he should still be Anbu rank, just like former Kage are still Kage rank. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:26, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

umm actually, the anbu are really more so a team than a rank. and as for the kage thing, its because they were still kage at the time of their deaths.98.26.246.106 (talk) 07:38, September 4, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

That's not the way Anbu rank works, its a separate rank altogether. Since Kakashi joined the ranks of the regular forces, he can longer be Anbu ranked, if he's not an Anbu...--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:00, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Orochimaru was no longer Anbu when he left as shown by his normal Jonin outfit and the fact he was not with Danzo or Hiruzen as an Anbu at that time and yet on his rank he is still currently classified as Anbu. Yamato no longer was Anbu as he became a Jonin again and part of Team 7 and yet he is still labeled as Anbu. Same with Sai, he is no longer Anbu and yet he is still labeled as such. A LOT of people are in fact. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 16:15, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, ANBU position and a ninja rank are listed separately, unless only one is known--Elveonora (talk) 01:15, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

When did we find out what age he became Jounin
When did we find out that Kakashi became a Jounin at age 13 or close to age 13? A debate has broken out on NarutoForums and I can't find any manga or databook pages to supposed that supposition. Does anyone know? FallenAngelII (talk) 13:13, September 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * . -- The Goblin  13:15, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Use this Calculator in conjuction with given birthdates for Kakashi and Obito and Rin and Gai and Naruto and Itachi. I used it and found Kakashi is 14 years and 25 days older than Naruto. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 11:10, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Undergarment and head band color?
Now I know this is going to sound stupid, but please bear with me... Is it worth noting that Kakashi's undergarment and headband colors differs from the Shippuden anime and the Part II manga? In the anime he still retains the dark blue undergarments, while in the the Part II manga (color pages) it is black? On Chapter 531 cover, one sees Kakashi's garments and headband is colored black. And like I said at the beginning, I know it sounds stupid to bring such a trivial thing up, but I did see it was worth noticing in Mu's Appearance section that his (Mu's) headband color change was changed in the anime, from the original manga color. Sparxs77 (talk) 15:24, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Face under mask
in chapter 16 i thought when kakashi wakes up and startles naruto and sakura sakura whispers something about trying to look under his mask? i do not own this chapter and have only read it on mangahere, if you want a look its page 19, chapter 16

So?--Elveonora (talk) 16:08, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

Sharingan question after chapter 605.
Ok so i will try to do it short .. my question is this one, not even a question , just food for thought.. in the last chapter it show that Obito and Kakashi awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan at the same time.. could it be the fact that, even a transplanted eyes still linked to the original wielder or something ? because it happen almost instantly like they are in sync.. i know it not a forum but if it true something about it should be said under the sharingan section.--Tchad1 (talk) 11:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's always a possibility. However, it could also be equally possible that the two just witnessed/did something that was truly traumatic casing the eye to awaken. Kakashi did after all kill someone near and dear to him and Obito witnessed it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:06, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a possibility, and something that will likely be cleared up soon. Given Madara's talk about how both eyes need to be together to gain their full power, I would think that is somehow involved but that's still within the realm of speculation and as such, should not be incorporated into the articles until we know the facts.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:21, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

How can we say that the eyes aren't connected when Obito was able to see what Kakashi was seeing? Also, Kakashi was in the process of passing out as the MS was being formed. Only Obito was 100% alert and aware at Rin actually dying. Not saying Kakashi wasn't aware, but as I stated, he was in the process of passing out. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 13:09, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

Error about the interpretation of "You let Rin die"
About this sentence, reading various forums I noticed the spread of a misinterpretation of the phrase present also on the pages of Kakashi and Obito in this wikia. From a conversation between me and a Japanese translator on NF:


 * My question: Reading Narutopedia I had doubts about the infamous answer of Obito "You let Rin die"... could you please say me takL if it was reffered to the question of Kakashi about the reason because Obito remained hidden from Konoha, or if it was the anser to the reason for his actions (and consequently the Moon's eye plan)?


 * The answer of the translator: kakashi asked obito "if u re alive... why untill now (have you not shown yourself to me)...?" and obito said "but...yea ...if you really ask me why (I havent)..." "thats because you didnt save rin...""from dying...perhaps" So its the former i assume.


 * Source: [http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=44834283&postcount=896

http://www.narutoforums.com/showpost.php?p=44837272&postcount=897]

I think so that the part of the articles about the sentence in Kakashi and Obito's profile should be corrected.

PS: To avoid misunderstandings, I say this indipendentely from the effective reasons of Obito for his acts (I have no problems with these in any cases), it's just to not do a wrong information on the wikia.--JK88 (talk) 13:06, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

The only place I could find it was in the chapter article, which was changed.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:23, October 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * In the end of the paragraph part II is written: "When Kakashi questions him as to how he survived, Obito avoids his question but explains the reason for his plans; Kakashi's failure to protect Rin, causing Obito to hate "this useless reality", an answer that only caused Kakashi to sink further in depression."


 * While under the page of Obito Uchiha, always in the end of the paragraph on part II, is reported: "When asked how he survived, Obito dodged the question and instead reveals his motivation; Kakashi's inability to save Rin, leading Obito to hate the reality they live in."


 * I think that these ones should be corrected.--JK88 (talk) 18:00, October 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't see why those need to be changed. YOu have an issue with "you let Rin die" yes? And the translator says Obito directly said "thats because you didnt save rin...""from dying...perhaps". Outside of writing it word-for-word. They're saying the same thing. You didn't save her, you failed to protect her/inability to save her. The differences don't seem so big that they should cause an issue to readers.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:53, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry I think that I have expressed bad my thoughts, I have no problem with this sentence, the point of my reasoning wasn't the words of Obito but the reason for them. I wanted just say that many readers in the forums think that Obito's answer was referred to the reason because he started the moon's eye plan. In that panel anyway he was just answering about the reason because he remained hidden from Konoha (the previous question of Kakashi): indeed if in the recent chapters Rin wasn't die (by the inability of Kakashi), who could think that Obito would return to Madara? Finally free, surely he would definitely return to Konoha.


 * So I think that there was a misunderstanding, my point was in the reason for the answer of Obito, I don't discuss about what he is saying. I just wanted to not send the misinterpretation to others readers, just this. --JK88 (talk) 19:16, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Normal eyes
On this page (page 7 i guess without the fanart) of chapter 608 Kakashi is seen with two normal eyes. My guess would be that this is simply an error, but what do you guys think. --Cosmikaze (talk) 14:03, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

He probably deactivate his sharingan. MaskedManMadara (talk) 14:07, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Oh sorry I forgot that he can't does that. so its a error. MaskedManMadara (talk) 14:08, November 7, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi has learned to use the warping part of Kamui
He has learned to warp himself with it just like Obito. As shown in 608. It should be added in his Mangekyo section. 173.66.119.89 (talk) 21:24, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * All of Kamui is warping. Kakashi simply did the same thing he always does, on himself.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:12, November 8, 2012 (UTC)

Origin...?
Has his resemblance to Rikimaru been noted before? I can't seem to find it anywhere on this wiki, but the similarities are too coincidental to not be noted. --165.138.142.66 (talk) 18:30, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because the "this character looks like another" thing isn't done on this wikia.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:34, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

But it's from another series and can we at least suggest the heavy physical similarities between these two? They're virtually identical(albeit in a different sort of animation). --165.138.142.66 (talk) 18:40, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. The link between the two would have to be much more stronger for that connection to be mentioned in the article.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:40, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

What about the same colored mask over the same part of the face, a katana equipped in the back, gray spiked hair, he's a main character ninja in the Tenchu series who is noted to have a calm composure? If that's not enough, then I give up, because there's no further similarities to my knowledge.--165.138.142.66 (talk) 19:56, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Unless Kishimoto-sensei says so. Or if there is an undeniable connection between both the character and the series creator. Then i'd say not to add it.98.26.246.74 (talk) 20:17, November 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

I agree. This is Naruto, not Tenchu. So stop this unnecessary discussion about Kakashi and Rikumaru. Zoeyua (talk) 20:26, November 9, 2012 (UTC)

Possible wrong sentence
''At the same time, he has mysteriously not shown any signs of deteriorating vision despite having accessed it for nearly two decades and used Kamui multiple times in a single battle. '' I think that this sentence, the last one under the voice "Mangekyou Sharingan", should be deleted because the wrong info inside it: at the beginning of the Shippuuden, Kakashi say to Naruto and Sakura to be improved also him like them because now he has a new jutsu (talking about the Kamui), so it's a sign that he hasn't ever used his MS before the timeskip or at least he wasn't able to use his jutsu. This explain because he hasn't lost his sight until now, thing that anyway it's happened in a certain measure, like his words to Itachi suggest it during his meeting with him in the rescue of Gaara's mission. And about Kakashi's multiple use of Kamui, an explanation could be simply the improvement of his stamina, an hypothesis taken in consideration under the voice "Chakra prowess" comparing the different abilities shown by Kakashi in battle during the series.--JK88 (talk) 13:55, November 10, 2012 (UTC)--JK88 (talk) 13:59, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been removed.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:03, November 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Cerez--JK88 (talk) 14:33, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

Mayhaps I should explain the reason here:
 * There is no plausible explanation for what Kakashi said to Itachi when he asked him how far his eyesight had deteriorated.
 * Kakashi unlike Uchiha cannot deactivate the eye, ergo he cannot use it as a normal eye. So the opportunity for us to see how far his eyesight has deteriorated, is non-existent.
 * Also bear in mind that the deterioration of the eyesight does not stop them from using the dōjutsu any at all (until they go blind presumably) and Kakashi predominantly uses the Sharingan only using its evolved form since the encounter with Deidara.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:26, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

As far as we all know Kakashi, I expect him to figure out that an Uchiha would get more side effects other than the non-Uchiha, which are the deterioration of the eye. Either way, we still haven't seen him show any signs of deterioration of his eye, so we can't say that he's suffering from it. --X29 17:24, November 10, 2012 (UTC)

The absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence.98.26.246.74 (talk) 17:42, November 10, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * Ah, but the absence of evidence means it doesn't get mentioned on this wikia. In the same manner you think that we're assuming that his eyes is deteriorating, is the same way people assume that itn't. However, there is more evidence pointing towards it happening than it not.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:36, November 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Just because it's not stated doesnt mean that it isn't happening. I think that until he's stated to be a special case, that we simply keep it like it is for every mangekyo sharingan weilder.98.26.246.74 (talk) 19:57, November 10, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Everyone who held the Mangekyo Sharingan other than Obito and Shisui suffered eye deterioration. Obito's right eye didn't suffer any, which would mean that the left eye, which Kakashi has, wouldn't suffer either. As for Shisui's eye, I have no idea. Probably 'cause Danzo had Senju DNA with him. --X29 03:05, November 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not because no one responds to this in a day means it's over and you can re-add the information. There's three people here against the addition of the information which technically means it cannot be readd. I'm not sure I can respond to your logic, because it is inherently flawed so how about we let other people chime in. Because I've explained to you already in my first post why you would probably never see signs of Kakashi's eyesight deteriorating- go read it again.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:04, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

There were multiple times where we could've seen how his vision weakened. For instance, the Kazekage Rescue Arc and the Invasion of Pain Arc. I won't go on and keep counting. It's such a drag......... --X29 13:48, November 12, 2012 (UTC) We will never see Kakashi stumbling around because he has a normal eye which is not strained. So it's sorta like him having a cheat code. Itachi who was near-blind was able to use his Sharingan/Mangekyō Sharingan perfectly. Which brings us back to the fact that Kakashi knew the eye came with debilitating sight. So unless he found the shrine underneath the village, there is no other way for him to know this.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:39, November 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Kakashi unlike Uchiha cannot deactivate the eye, ergo he cannot use it as a normal eye. So the opportunity for us to see how far his eyesight has deteriorated, is non-existent."

Never will see him stumble? Remember in the Land of Waves Arc, after Haku took Zabuza's 'corpse'? Kakashi collapsed after taking a few steps. There were other times where he showed tiredness from using the normal Sharingan, but I won't recall them, as it's such a drag... At any case, we won't see him tired from using the normal Sharingan in Shippuden, of course, since he's stronger and grown more accustomed to it. --X29 15:59, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

I meant in the way that Sasuke did when he knocked over the glass. Maybe I should have said "fumble". Don't include any time that Kakashi's fallen because of fatigue. And until we find evidence that Kakashi's eye is not sinking into blindness then it can't be mentioned in his article. You're free to beleive whatever you want however.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:05, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what Sasuke has to do with this, but in response to what you last said, we don't have any evidence of his eye sinking to blindness either. He knows that the Mangekyo Sharingan sinks the eyes to blindness, yes, but he hasn't shown any signs of it other than chakra exhaustion and visible strain, which aren't signs to losing the eyesight unless the eye's bleeding, which is what happens to every eye that possessed the Mangekyo Sharingan, except for Obito's and Shisui's, which are excused probably for Senju DNA. --X29 16:25, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Obito Uchiha & Kakashi Hatake - Gained Mangekyou Sharingan nearly 20 years ago. Both still capable of seeing and using it.

Itachi Uchiha - Gained Mangekyou Sharingan what, 8 years before his death? Ended up practically blind fighting Sasuke.

Sasuke Uchiha - Had Mangekyou Sharingan after fighting Itachi. Ended up practically blind by the time he met Team Seven again.

Notice the difference here? There is not set timer on the deterioration. Itachi pulled out all the stops fighting Sasuke, he used Tsukiyomi 'til it broke, spewed Amaterasu 'til the whole place was on fire and summoned Susanoo. He still had it for eight years before we saw notable deterioration in his vision. Sasuke spammed Susanoo and went blind in what, a week or two? If anything, I think we can infer Susanoo does the most damage to the eyesight, but other than that there's no set limit on these things so we can't say if Obito, Kakashi or Shisui's eyes were/are deteriorating, just that it hasn't happened yet. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:25, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

Then X29, if there's no evidence that it is or isn't sinking into blindness then it isn't our place to assume that it is or isn't. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is more evidence for it than against it and with no solid proof it shouldn't be mentioned in the article any at all. That can be left up to reader's minds to wander. I believe I'm now done with this discussion.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 10:47, November 13, 2012 (UTC)

While hoping this isn't misconstrued as a forum matter - while I agree with Cere and others there is no outwardly stated evidence toward either side (though my just-woke-up-memory makes me feel like I remember something mentioned in the manga about the lack of loss), I do have to disagree that there is more evidence towards it. In fact, to say that after stating there's no references supporting it yet say there is still more to support it is contradictory. But that aside...

I feel there's more evidence toward them (Obito and Kakashi) not losing eyesight. What we have to go by are two Uchiha of Sasuke's family, and they use 3 very specific techniques relative to their Mangekyou. Yet 2 Sharigan are completely unrelated and the three users have not used any of the 3 stereotypical techniques (yet; and Shisui being dead). We've seen loss associated with Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, loss perhaps been different in each eye - while Susanoo seems to accelerate it in both (mindful all speculative). Yet Obito, hasn't shown any loss despite having used it in the same manner as Sasuke, while Kakashi was perhaps more like Itachi.

Of course, Kakashi isn't an Uchiha, but unless Kish decides to even make a hint out of it, then we have no reason to even entertain the notion he has any eyesight loss, and given the nature of how Kish has gone about it - it is more of a notion that there is no loss (at least as of yet - which is exacerbated by the fact of Obito; Kamui is not known to cause any eyesight loss - something very important to remember). And, in fact, he seems to be able to use it even more proficiently in this latest arc. While he cannot switch to a normal eye, the eyesight loss was always also seen while using Sharingan in the 2 "stereotype" Mangekyou. So we would also notice that as it is something Kish would've pointed out (it's actually something pretty significant that shouldn't be missed).68.47.191.156 (talk) 14:29, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * About Obito I wanted just say that if he hasn't signs of loss of eyesight (how seems, given that he has always fought using Kamui and never shown possible collateral effects in his behavior), the more likely hypothesis is that such advantage is given for the presence of a massive quantitative of Senjuu Dna (that from various examples we already now like is able to improve the skills of the sharingan). In the conversation with Kakashi, the words of the copyninja seems clearly indicate that he knows so well the Mangekyou, included his drawbacks, just because he has experimentd on himself, thing that seems confirmed when later against Deidara, we discover that also Kakashi is able to use the Mangekyou; so the Kamui is not an exception among the MS jutsus.--JK88 (talk) 22:19, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

New mugshot
The one of Kakashi looks really odd... --OmegaRasengan (talk) 04:42, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Bow and arrow
When he used a bow and arrow? --JoaoKrauss (talk) 01:29, November 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Talk:Might Guy. -- The Goblin  08:41, November 13, 2012 (UTC)