Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34194151-20190114171531

Name me ONE ninjutsu or genjutsu in this manga that wasn't amplified by the users having access to more chakra... I'll wait. And make sure to control for chakra control too. If the chakra control is too bad, then it doesn't make a difference. Even in Sage Mode, Jiraiya lacks any meaningful chakra control to create yin release chakra for genjutsu at all, so no amount of chakra he puts in will make up the difference.

Pain's shinra Tensei increased in magnitude the more chakra he put in. When he moulded more chakra, he went from destroying Kakashi's earth wall and creating a small crater to nuking the ENTIRE hidden leaf village, and he put so much chakra in his life span shortened.

How is Ebisu's diagram in part one not clear? When Sakura moulded more chakra for clone technique, 3 clones appeared instead of one. When naruto makes kage bunshin, his kage bunshin are stronger than kakashi's and are easier to maintain due to the massive stamina he has. Kakashi's 5 clones are way weaker than naruto's same 5 clones. More chakra put in, the stronger or more complex or numerous the jutsu.

When Tobirama and Hashirama were revived in part one, not only could they not use any high end techniques, their water style and mokuton techniques were severly weakened. Look at Hashirama's deep forest emergence during his fights with Madara and look at Edo Madara's replication of his jutsu, then look at what he did in part one. Hashirama was so watered down that he couldn't resist the edo tensei at all, yet in part 2 when he was brought back closer to full power, he broke the control effortlessly. His Chakra control didn't change, his reserves did though.

Tsykuyomi was explicitly stated to be one of the most powerful genjutsu ever and was clearly shown to have a chakra cost that reflected that, and yet somehow Putting more chakra into genjutsu doesn't amplify the potency according to you lot.

When kakashi got chakra from Kurama, he could casually warp objects as large as gyuki.

Naruto went from summoning a tadpole to summoning gamabunta by simply having his chakra reserves increased. His chakra control didn't change at all. His chakra control was trash, but adding more stamina solved the problem.

I have made ZERO assumptions. I referenced you guys Ebisu's diagrams, and multiple feats... The whole point of the 8 gates is that increased chakra flow/increased access to chakra increases relevant stats for the user. More chakra available> greater genjutsu and ninjutsu feats...

Your point about naruto is incorrect. Genjutsu Kai is a battle of strength just as much as it is about chakra control, which is the whole point of ANY ninjutsu or genjutsu. He moulded his chakra and followed Jiraiya's instructions precisely. Partner method is IDENTICAL to Genjutsu Kai, clearly stated in the canon. It's just more practical to use partner method because chakra inserted from a third party doubles your chances. It's not a guarantee you will break out, as Obito clearly controlled the third mizukage for years....

Your claim that it matters more is unsupported. Itachi's Tsykuyomi was partially credited to his skill with genjutsu by Danzo. His MS eye is required during the chakra control step for him to channel the technique in the first place, but his skill is what allowed him to freely manipulate time. IT still required ALOT of chakra for him to make the genjutsu so potent that the miniumum requirment is sharingan + uchiha bloodline. That is the only genjutsu we have seen immediately make him gasping for breath, because every time he wants to make an illusion powerful enough to potentially render an opponent comatose, that's what it took. When he used it for simple things like showing Sasuke the truth of the massacre, it wasn't anywhere near as draining on him.

Ephemeral gets stronger with 100 percent Itachi, as per, I don't know, literally the MECHANICS of genjutsu and ninjutsu in the first place ????