Talk:Tobi

Mokuton and Immortality
Finally this chapter made clear some doubts about Madara's abilities. Since the Wood Style has been pretty much shown as having extreme life-giving properties it explains how Madara managed to survive all these years...it also pretty much explains that curious fact of how Madara was able to regrow his blown off right arm on two-times and why did his right arm bleed that white liquid instead of blood. Now a question. How do we add that to his abilities page. Darksusanoo (talk) 15:43, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I rather wait until we know what exactly the raw says. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:57, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Mokuton does not in any way allow the user to regrow arms, or at least was never stated to be able to do so. That would imply some sort of healing factor, which if anyone other than Hashirama possessed it, it would be Yamato. That white liquid you speak of most likely has something to do with White Zetsu, although that's just speculation at the present. And when was Mokuton shown "to give extreme life-giving properties"? The closest thing to what you're speaking of that I can remember is Rikudo Mode Naruto's chakra changing Yamato's wooden totems into trees. Now maybe the combination of both Uchiha and Senju cells in Madara may be the reason for this (Tsunade makes some mention of this in the recent release), but again, it's speculation for the time being. Skitts (talk) 03:18, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

How can it be speculation? Tsunade, who knows a lot about Hashirama, said that if Madara harvested the cells that he could very well be immortal. That's why Madara has lived so long.24.129.58.16 (talk) 13:50, July 19, 2011 (UTC)NamikazeNaruto

Well we seem to forget a few more stand-out examples about the life-giving properties: the Hashirama clone, the Zetsu Army, and possibly the original Zetsu himself. The Mokuton is based on Yang chakra, which as stated by Madara while talking about the Rikudo Sennin, is the physical energy that gives life. There's also the fact that the Yang chakra was the gift given to the Sage's younger son. In the same way that the eyes and Yin Chakra of the elder son gave way to the abilities of the Uchiha clan...namely the Sharingan, maybe the Yang powers that the Sage's younger son had gave way to the Mokuton in Hashirama. Otherwise why would Madara go through the battle of the Valley of the End against the extremely powerful First Hokage, sustain injuries which afected him for the next decades if it were not for him to colect a power related to the Sage? Out of all kinds of elemental chakra, i have yet to see one that could create living beings like the Mokuton. Darksusanoo (talk) 15:07, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

This might be a stupid question but I wanted to ask how can Madara be immortal/prolong his life with the 1st Hokage's cells when the 1st Hokage died?24.129.58.16 (talk) 22:13, August 2, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage
 * Hashirama died in battle. The descendants of the Senju Clan Ancestor inherited his life-force which allows them to live long lives. Mito Uzumaki is a prime example of this.--22:20, August 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Longevity doesn't help against kunai. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:20, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Then Madara really isn't immortal right? Since he can die in battle.24.129.58.16 (talk) 22:31, August 2, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage
 * Yes, Tsunade didn't mean immortal in the sense of not being able to be killed.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:38, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

It's confusing then cause when I think of immortal, I think of not dying. But why did Tsunade say "We have no idea how to beat him" if he can die by a kunai? And, how did you know the 1st died in battle?24.129.58.16 (talk) 22:52, August 2, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage


 * She said that because his abilities are still predominantly unknown and such. Madara isn't immortal in the sense that he can't be killed, just that he can live a really long time in his current condition. They would call Mito immortal too in the same sense. As for Hashirama dying in battle it's in his article or in the First Shinobi World War's article unless i'm distorting the information with his brother's.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:00, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but i don't think the 1st Hokage was in that war. Why would the 2nd Hokage be named when the 1st was alive and strong? Unless he was way older than his brother.


 * It's stated in his article that he died at some point shortly after the founding of the village and before the before the first war. So i'm not too sure about the war bit anymore since we apparently don't know exactly how.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:57, August 2, 2011 (UTC)

So we don't really know how he died?


 * We don't know how Hashirama died. It's still unknown. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 00:07, August 3, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi


 * The first databooks states that:
 * "However, this was a time when the world was at war. At the same time the village began to flourish, he lost his life."
 * It might not state it directly, but there is really no other way to interpret this quote: the First Hokage died in battle, in one of the many wars that were raging during the beginning of the era of hidden villages. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:08, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Is there a site I can read the databooks? Do databooks ever give information that might change? Like saying Tobi is Madara in one then in a later one change it too Tobi is someone else. Sorry for all the questions. Trying to know everything about Naruto.24.129.58.16 (talk) 00:25, August 3, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage.
 * They're normally in Japanese and we generally get our translations from Shounensuki up thur↑. But I don't think Kishimoto would ever be that inconsistent with information.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:30, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

So Shounensuki can read Japanese and translate it? Cool

Shounensuki is Narutopedia's Official Japanese Translator.KiumaruHamachi (talk) 00:39, August 3, 2011 (UTC) KiumaruHamachi

That's cool. Wish I could learn.

Please sign your signature with four ~ and you can! All you have to do is go to a book store or search online for japanese learning sights and you can be like this "Hajimamashte. Genki desu ka. " and the answer "Genki desu." (Nice to meet you, how are you?) and (I am fine.) Also, "Anata no o namae wa nanidesu kadesu" answer is "Watoshi wa Hamachi Kiumaru." (What is your name?) answer (My name is Kiumaru Hamachi) --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 01:37, August 3, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Thanks I'll try it and sorry! I forgot. My bad!24.129.58.16 (talk) 01:43, August 3, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage

It's okay. But first, start reading every character's (canon or non canon) trivia here on Naruto Wiki. You might learn a thing or two about Japanese. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 01:45, August 3, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Alright I will but that's a lot of characters lol. What's canon though?24.129.58.16 (talk) 01:59, August 3, 2011 (UTC)NarutoHokage

Any character featured in the manga. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 02:01, August 3, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Alright thanks :)

No problem. :) KiumaruHamachi (talk) 02:12, August 3, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Ok...question..how come Madara doesn't have the Wood Release stated in his infobox? He infused and was said to have mastered Hashirama's cells, since he could use a complete version of Izanagi. Danzo who didn't have full control of the First's cells and only had an imperfect Izanagi could still use the Wood Release. Madara who had complete control should be listed as one as well since the Wood Release is a Kekkei Genkai and he infused and attained full control of Hashirama's cells. Opinions? Darksusanoo (talk) 20:41, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * I swore I had this conversation before. Until Madara uses the Wood Release, there's no need to add it to his infobox. Having perfect control of Hashirama's cells just means that his life force won't swallow him whole and turn him intoa tree or something. Also, Wood Release is not related to Izanagi, if he stole Tōka's cells he would be able to use Izanagi just the same.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:55, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Izanagi was just an example. Wood release is a Kekkei Genkai and since Madara infused himself with the First's cells he has the ability to it like Yamato and Danzo even if didn't use it so far. Out of all three only Madara isn't listed but all three had Hashirama's cells into them. The simple fact that that Madara infused Hashirama's cells in to himself give's him access to the First's Kekkei Genkai since it is a genetic jutsu. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:05, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since no one has offered an objecting statement, I am going to add Madara as a Mokuton user. Master Shannara (talk) September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I still object, and I'm certain others will as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:44, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Omni, we don't normally list techniques we assume people can use just because they have the prerequisites to do so.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:47, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Madara- abilities
If madara is leader of akatsuki why didnt he hunt for the beasts as he can suck opponents into his dimensionand then he can extract tailed beasts from jinichuriki.
 * He wanted to stay hidden. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 15:52, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Katon
can anybody tell me, when did madara use the Fireball jutsu ? i really want prove .. which episode ? pls--KyoyaCloudX (talk) 11:10, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * This should shed some light on the matter--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:35, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

alrigth, done reading all of it , thanks --KyoyaCloudX (talk) 12:03, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

picture
shouldn`t the photo be him with what he looks like now?--67.142.175.25 (talk) 02:25, August 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * We use images from their début in the infobox.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:36, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Madara's Paths
As of recently Madara has used the bodies of 6 jinchuriki as he Paths of Pain. My confusion is to which bodies is he using? Kabuto used the Impure World Ressurection to summon back the 6 dead jinchuriki, yet Madara is also using the bodies? is he using the revived bodies or the actually bodies? 58.164.115.18 (talk) 11:14, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kabuto could have simply given the bodies to him for him to use or it's their actual corpses although that's unlikely since I'm sure I remember Zetsu eating them afterwards.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:24, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well isn't the body revived by Edo Tensei only obey their master? Isn't it dangerous for Madara? littlethief93 12:37, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Removal of Presumed Natures
I think we should remove the natures because the Rinnegan does not automatically allow its wielder to use them. The user needs to know how to perform the nature transformation. Nagato was stated to have known all the six natures, Madara was not.--Deva 27 01:34, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Didn't Jiraiya specifically say that the Rinnegan allows one to use all (basic) nature transformations? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:06, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Jiraya said it enabled Nagato to master all six, he still had to learn how to use them.--Deva 27 02:17, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Even so those shouldn't be removed...Nagato has Fire and Lightning Release as his natures but he was never shown using these...The Sage himself is listed as having all natures (without the presumed notice). Since the Rinnegan gives the ability to use these they should remain. Also since Madara took a already developed Rinnegan from Nagato, it's even more likely that he has these. Darksusanoo (talk) 02:26, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nagato was specifically said to be capable of using them, Madara was not. We should remove the Sage's natures as well. The Rinnegan does not automatically make the user capable of using them.--Deva 27 02:34, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Them what was the point of stating in the manga/anime that the Rinnegan gave that ability? Besides it was stated that the Sage had full mastery of the abilities granted by the Rinnegan, which includes the ability of the nature transformations(It's kinda of hard to picture the Sage creating the Banana Fan which can create the 5 basic elements without he himself having these as well. And like i said before since Madara took Nagato's Rinnegan after the latter had already developed it, it's likely he inherited the techniques that acompany it. Darksusanoo (talk) 02:46, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * The databook states the wielder of the Rinnegan can master all the nature transformations, it does not say it is automatic. We do not know what Madara is capable of with the Rinnegan, so its speculation.--Deva 27 03:01, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fine i can go with that, but since the Rinnegan allows for such mastery and he has the presumed notice next to the other 3 natures i think it's ok the way it is. But do as you will. Darksusanoo (talk) 03:07, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

@Deva27 Considering it's perfectly possible (though difficult and unlikely) for a "regular" ninja to learn to use all nature transformations, there would have been no point to saying a Rinnegan could learn them. Edit: I may have misread some things in the above discussion. I apologize for any misunderstandings.Skitts (talk) 17:57, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * According to Jiraiya no regular shinobi has ever mastered all six natures, the Rinnegan was what allowed Nagato to learn how to use them all.--Deva 27 19:29, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

@unnamed above I'm pretty sure that was Yamato who said that (probably in the anime though). I don't ever remember Jiraya saying anything like that. Can you give me a chapter and page number? Also, sign your posts with four tildes ~ Skitts (talk) 19:23, August 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Chapter 375, page 11. When Jiraiya explains Nagato's power, he says that Nagato had mastered all six elements and that was something completely unprecedented in the shinobi world.--Deva 27 19:30, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

In the translation I just read, it seems to indicate that the fact that Nagato mastered all of the natures by himself as what was "unprecedented" if I'm reading it correctly. Skitts (talk) 22:28, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Madara Picture
So, chapter 551 of the manga has a full color photo of Madara with about half of his mask broken and showing the right side of his face. I was just wondering if we should add it to the page, or just wait for the anime to show it. CorwinDruzil (talk) 15:40, August 17, 2011 (UTC)CorwinDruzil
 * No that's fanart that MangaStream adds to the end of the chapters as a sort of "fan service"--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:41, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * C'mon people, see the deviantart credit in the page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:55, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Why....
Why you guys remove the lightning, water and wind nature type, from Madara's infobox? --thedasilva1 (talk) 01:26, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Because.... Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:00, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.
Hello,

Shouldn't we added madara and sasuke(in the future) the "Eternal" Mangekyou Sharingan into their infobox?

THANKYOU12:12, August 31, 2011 (UTC)--
 * Uhm, I think it was said somewhere that the Eternal Mangekyō is just a variant of the basic Mangekyō and as suck not another "dōjutsu" in that sense. So it wouldn't have to be reflected in the infobox.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:55, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Madara Uchiha's age
It can be estimated from the flashbacks of Madara, how old he was in them, and how long ago he said they happened that Madara is over one hundred years old. Some indication should be added in the infobox on Madara's page as their is nothing there. (tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 15:36, September 4, 2011 (UTC))
 * We don't do guesstimated ages.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:52, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Fukusaku the toad has an 800+ as an age. Could have fooled me. All I did was put a 100+ on Madara. (tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 17:13, September 4, 2011 (UTC))
 * I believe his age is confirmed also, on the topic of, The Great Toad Elder, his age being 1000+, I believe there ages are confirmed. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 17:15, September 4, 2011 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * From what I know we don't list "###+" ages, so going from that, I would say that Fukasaku's should be removed from the infobox if that's where it is and mentioned in his article as well as anyone else's to be fair. Those aren't ages they're ball park figures.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:22, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

Also, dont forget that we dont even know if Madara is truly behind the mask of Tobi.. Dont wanna start a discussion about all that, just saying.--62.226.55.54 (talk) 08:27, September 5, 2011 (UTC)Timiursa

missing jutsu
why is frilled neck lizard not listed?
 * The what? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 19:44, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * lolwut? thedasilva1 | Talk | Contributions 18:45, September 4, 2011 (UTC)

He is talking about the "jutsu" Tobi was going to use when he fought the eight man squad. It is not listed because it is no justu. He was joking around as always--62.226.55.54 (talk) 08:31, September 5, 2011 (UTC)Timiursa

Madara's Power
I think so that madara doesn't have any elemental powers nor any other jutsu except the rinnegan and the sharingan. Because till now he has not used elemental jutsu even when he was seriously battling konan. Even during his fight with Minato he didn't use anything except space time jutsu which I guess is the technique of his mangekyo sharingan. I don't see how the infobox can put his nature type since he has not shown any. And where did the earth style come from? In which anime chapter did he used it?
 * Did you bother to check the technique list?
 * He used Earth Release: Hiding Like a Mole Technique in chapter #358.
 * For the fire release, see this.
 * Jacce | Talk | Contributions 07:58, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * He used Earth Style: Hiding Like a Mole Technique to plant Deidara's C2 bombs underground during the fight with Sasuke. Even if he can use elemental jutsu apart from that, he might have not felt the need to use them since he has the space-time uber hax jutsu which proves to be sufficient in most cases. I don't think him not using any offensive elemental jutsu should be mentioned specifically. --kiadony --talk to me-- 08:02, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

What does it matter, that he doesn't use them? The Rinnegan grants its wielder all elemantal natures - fact! And, with your logic, Sasuke having the Lion's Barage mentioned as his technique is not right, since he doesn't use it at all, and has better, "uber hax" jutsus? 95.42.182.210 (talk) 22:38, September 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're not getting the point. The Rinnegan grants its wielder the ability to learn all elements. They still have to learn them before they can use them. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:07, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Wasn't that for the jutsu part. They have to learn the actual jutsus, yes, but the elemental natures are given, i think. And i assume we know for sure, that Nagato has learned all elements, which is why his infobox puts them forward? Doesn't simply possessing the Rinnegan mean that all the elements should be put in the corresponding character's infobox? 77.85.110.76 (talk) 01:45, September 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Jiraiya mentions that Nagato had mastered all six chakra nature transformations by age ten. In other words, Nagato had to actual learn how to transform his chakra into elemental chakra. This means the Rinnegan only grants its wielder the ability to learn the elements, but the wielder still has to learn to use them. In other words, it isn't certain in any way that a wielder of the Rinnegan can use the elements, unless stated so. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:06, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Could you possibly provide a link to where Jiraiya states this? I could be wrong, of course, but i would appreciate it if you provide a chapter where it is directly said that one has to learn the elements, and how to use them... 95.43.74.109 (talk) 18:16, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Why hasn't Madara shown his EMS yet?
I was just wondering why madara never revealed his EMS besides in a flashback. We know he has been using it because its abitilies are Space–Time Migration and Full Controll over tailed beast but why havn't we seen it at least once yet, maybe because he's wearing a mask i dont know but what do you guys think?
 * Madara's space-time technique was never stated to stem from EMS, or even the regular MS. At most, it was hinted at, with the technique's focal point being the eye, but not once has any character called it a dōjutsu. And the MS only allows one to control the Nine-Tails, not tailed beasts in general, and that's supposed to be something all MS can do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:42, September 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * He also mentioned that his fight with Hashirama left him a shell of his former self, it might be that he simply can't use it.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:14, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

No it probably is a dojutsu because kakashi has something similar using his MS and madara is powerless to use any jutsu. Regular sharingans cannot use Space-Time ninjutsu so it has to be his EMS and it states that this Space Time migration comes from his right eye which is why he gave up his left eye instead. 68.216.154.2 (talk) 00:37, September 17, 2011 (UTC)TailedBeast
 * I never said it isn't a dōjutsu, just that it was never confirmed as one. Nothing says that regular Sharingan can't use space-time techniques either. Nothing says it can't be a regular MS instead of an EMS technique as well. What I mean is that since the technique was ever out-right stated to depend on kekkei genkai, be it Sharingan, MS or EMS, nothing impedes it from being simply a ST technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:01, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

Tsukuyomi
Shouldn't it be stated that madara can use Tsukuyomi cause his plan is to obtain the Ten Tails to powerup his MS and cast an Infinite Tsukuyomi on the moon. If im wrong then the Ten Tails might have an Infinite Tsukuyomi strong enough to cast on the moon because that eye on moon resembles the ten tails dōjutsu kekkei genkai if it is a sharingan or rinnegan or maybe thats how its eye just look LOL TailedBeastTailedBeast (talk) 16:42, September 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm certain this was discussed somewhere else already, but because I'm too lazy to look for it, here's the nutshell version. Considering that Madara is "a shell of his former self", and the fact he was never shown or mentioned to have used Tsukuyomi in the past (or any other MS technique for that matter, by technique I mean specific technique, not the basic "can control the Nine-Tails" ability), nothing suggests that Madara can use Tsukuyomi as he is so far. The current understanding is that he needs the Ten-Tails to restore his eyes, and only then he'd be able to cast Tsukuyomi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:07, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. But what ever happened to his eyes in the first place, i thought the EMS was suppose to last forever even when they are implanted into someone else. Perhaps his old age prevents him from using its abilities or the 1st hokage really must have messed him up! LOOOL. Well he could just use sasukes old eyes and have a new EMS but thats a whole other story and.Anyway, i just want to point out that there is alot of missing intel on madara thats not mentioned or stated.65.0.108.106 (talk) 21:01, September 20, 2011 (UTC)TailedBeast
 * EMS appears to work only when the eye comes from a sibling, and it's implied that it's not really a transplant, but rather a fusion of the eyes, otherwise brothers with the MS would simply exchange eyes and both would get the EMS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:24, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

O that makes much more sense and i forgot all about that.98.95.76.23 (talk) 22:27, September 20, 2011 (UTC)Tailed Beast

No, it is not implied it is a fusion of the eyes. It is just one set of eyes given to the other. The blood of the person flows through the new eyes and then BOOM his Mangekyo combines with the new one, creating the Eternal Mangekyo. it IS possible to switch eyes. But Madara cannot be trusted with his stories so who knows the absolute truth about him and Izuna, personally I think he was greedy so he hid his eyes so Izuna couldn't get the Eternal Mangekyo after he gave Madara his eyes, that way Madara could stay at the top and stay clan leader. Also, Itachi was already dying, and he eventually died to GIVE Sasuke the Mangekyo and knew Madara would take his eyes and transplant them into Sasuke. The eyes of Uchiha brothers CAN be switched giving both the Eternal Mangekyo, just the circumstance's were never right. Such as Madara being greedy and Itachi dying. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:30, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Show me one thing in the manga suggesting it's possible to simply switch eyes. The reason it is suggested is because when Itachi tells Madara's story and tells Sasuke that he's his spare, the demon figure which appears behind them has four eye sockets, two of which are empty. If it was a simple exchange, there wouldn't be four sockets. And if Madara cared so much for Izuna, he could have simply given him his eyes. Itachi was almost blind, but Sasuke has no trouble seeing with those eyes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:07, September 27, 2011 (UTC)