Talk:Naruto Uzumaki

now that finally
Fallacies and speculation have been removed, all that's left is to list Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken as a collaboration technique between Son Goku and Naruto and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan as a collaboration technique between Shukaku and Naruto.--Elveonora (talk) 14:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 14:05, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, unless you have a good reason--Elveonora (talk) 14:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Tailed Beast Ball too then yes, for Killer B, Naruto and Minato yes? And I will also add Madara and Obito as well because they are using the Ten-Tails to do it but I feel they get enough leeway because they are the ones forcing the Ten-Tails to do anything.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Tailed Beast Ball is originally a Tailed Beasts' technique, they don't require to be inside of a jinchuuriki to use it. Obito and Madara are using the Ten-Tails' chakra as their own to perform techniques. Naruto had Son Goku and Shukaku respectively mold Yoton and Jinton for him, hence collaboration. If Naruto just used their chakra and performed the nature transformations on his own, he would be the user. That is where the difference lies.--Elveonora (talk) 14:13, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Ball as a collaboration? Your reasonings are not needed for this question, a simple yes or no will do.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course not.--Elveonora (talk) 14:18, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

You two are acting like brats. Can you grow the fuck up? As or the subject at hand, it is a collab technique.Naruto wouldn't be able to perform it without Shukaku OR Son Goku. This proves, undefiably, that it is, in fact, a collaboration technique. Derigar (talk) 14:24, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why do people strive to create strife so much? Your comment was absolutely unnecessary Derigar. I do like this notion though Elveonora. But I believe this would mean that all tailed beast skills would be classified as such.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:31, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why is Tailed Beast Ball not a collaboration? Isn't Naruto, B, and Minato shelving their chakra to use the Tailed Beast Balls, thus either asking or taking the chakra from the other? Is the only thing that makes a collaboration technique a collaboration technique going "Hey, let me have some chakra?" Don't be biased now. For your argument to work, everything has to be collaboration techs. Congratulations.
 * And yes, Derigar this is completely childish. But I'm hoping it get's my point across and it's far more amusing than trying to yell at a wall.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:33, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Cerez, some, not all, but yes. @Ultimate, specific instances of its usage are, like in case of Killer B and Gyuki and so on, but that isn't a reason to add "collaboration technique" to TBB's infobox, because that is an optional variant and not mandatory for it be performed by both a jinchuuriki and a biju. EDIT: to make it even easier to understand, TBB isn't a collaboration technique for the same reason why Shadow Clone technique isn't a parent technique to the Rasengan--Elveonora (talk) 14:44, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't edit here very often, only when I see fit. But this time I will put in my two cents. I think that the Tailed Beast Ball is not a Collaboration Technique because it the user is using jutsu that the tailed beast is able to use. The fallacy that Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan is not a Collaboration Technique because it is a tailed beast skill is literally making me cringe. It's simple math really. For example, when Jiraya and Gamabunta use the Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet together, they are using Toad Oil Bullet & Fire Release: Flame Bullet simultaneously to make Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet. 1 + 1 = 2. When Naruto uses his Rasengan added with the Magnet Release of Shukaku, Naruto is able to use Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan. 1 + 1 = 2. I just don't understand. Please explain. Zelwolf (talk) 14:50, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * When you guys replied to Derigar's message that way, you guys just proved yourselves. Well nevermind. Elveonora has a point that the techniques mentioned are collaboration techniques. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 14:55, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@Zelwolf, pretty much this. Son Goku and Shukaku respectively supplied him with their Yoton and Jinton and Naruto did Rasenshuriken and Rasengan using the chakras. He didn't "spit the oil" so the speak in the equation--Elveonora (talk) 14:57, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * I could care less about any of that Zelwolf. I'm just saying if they are, Tailed Beast Ball is as well. At least as far as the jinchuriki are concerned.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:59, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * As far as the jinchuuriki are concerned yes, but the infobox doesn't work that way. Unless you want it state "collaboration technique (jinchuuriki only)" or something. Not sure if that is even possible--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * See no reason why it can't just go in the infobox and then mentioned in the article in some contrived fashion. After all, not having it is then representing misinformation as fact, isn't that right?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * No, Tailed Beat Ball is not a collaboration technique. The jinchuriki of any tailed beast are using a justsu that the tailed beast already has. The tailed beast can use the Tailed Beast Ball regardless of being sealed inside someone or not. They do not need anyone else chakra or body or anything. For the case of Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan and the Lava Release Rasenshuriken Naruto is using the chakra added with his rasengan to make a brand new type of rasengan. Naruto could not have used the Magnet Release Rasengan without Shukaku, and Shukaku could not use the Rasengan without Naruto. They are combinding their techniques to make a brand new one. Zelwolf (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * Please stop deleting other people's messages from the discussion Zelwolf or you will receive a warning for talkpage violations.--Speysider Talk Page 15:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure that was by an accident Spey, it happens--Elveonora (talk) 15:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry Speysider, I didn't realize I was doing that. If I'm doing it I'm not doing it on purpose, sorry. Zelwolf (talk) 15:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * "They are combinding their techniques to make a brand new one" This right here is the very reason your argument falls apart. They are not combining techniques. One is adding its chakra to the other's technique, and thus it fails to meet the current definition of a collaboration jutsu. It's not the Rasengan+another jutsu, it's the rasengan+other chakra.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:14, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * "When Naruto uses his Rasengan added with the Magnet Release of Shukaku, Naruto is able to use Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan." Is that better for you? Sorry I wasn't clear enough. Zelwolf (talk) 15:19, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * I believe it's an edit conflict, Spey. @Soul reaper, I'm confused now. I've read the article (Collaboration Techniques) and it fits the criteria. (Tailed Beast Ball is not a collaboration technique because it's mostly the bijuu's and it can be done without the jinchuriki). ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 15:24, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

"Pulling an Ultimate3" (no offense :P) techniques are employed chakra in a specific way, move on. You could say Nature Transformation is sort of a technique--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not that it was unclear Zelwolf, it simply doesn't meet the definition of a collaboration jutsu. As I understand it, a collaboration jutsu is when two jutsus are used in tandem to increase their power. For example, Naruto and Sasuke separately use their Wind Release: Rasenshuriken and Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi, then they put the two together and make the far more powerful Scorch Release: Halo Gale Jet Black Arrow Style Zero. But when Naruto uses Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan, he is not putting two techniques together, instead he is adding a nature type to an existing technique to create a new one.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:26, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Just please explain to me to me how Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan doesnt fit the criteria of a colab technique. "one will feed into each other to become a technique of greater power than the sum of its parts" -The Colab Page. What Naruto is doing is the same thing Jiraya and Gamabunta did, and the same thing Sasuke and Naruto did. I'm very confused as to why this does not fit the criteria. Because to me it all fits together. Zelwolf (talk) 15:35, April 22, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf

So Combination Transformation isn't a collaboration technique and neither are most of Kiba's techniques since its him who transforms Akamaru into himself and does the merger?--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * You got me there Elvenora.--Soul reaper (talk) 15:42, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure I did ^_ You got that right there from databook, providing chakra alone for something counts as a collaboration technique--Elveonora (talk) 15:48, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Naruto unquestionably has the chakra of the tailed beasts. Naruto and Kurama melded their chakra when they made nice, does that mean that Nine-Tails Chakra Mode is a collaboration technique? If we're shown him using another different nature, knowing which beast it comes from, but without the question, then it's not a combination technique. It requires a cooperation, but I don't think it's proper to do so. It feels more like a courtesy than an actual requirement at this point. Are we going to say that Kurama is a Rasenshuriken user because Naruto used it while in Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, in which we know he shelves his chakra to use Kurama's? I wouldn't. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:06, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Following the logic I've seen, yes Kurama would also be a user or Rasenshuriken.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nine-Tails Chakra Mode isn't a merger of their chakras, Tailed Beast Mode is. No, because Rasenshuriken doesn't require Kurama. But Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan require Son Goku and Shukaku respectively. @Ultimate, no one suggested such a thing, quite the contrary. You are being explained the reasoning and all you do is pretending otherwise. Not sure if you misunderstand it or are just purposely acting childisly--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * So does that mean Mini-Rasenshuriken, Planetary Rasengan, Rasenkyūgan, and ect can be used by Kurama since they've only been shown with Nine-Tails chakra?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:30, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Kurama didn't have any role in their creation besides Naruto having used its chakra for chakra arms to make them.--Elveonora (talk) 19:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Still Kurama's chakra, or wasn't your argument that just providing the chakra counts as collaboration? This is why that argument doesn't work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:02, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * It does. It wasn't Kurama's intent for Naruto to use its chakra and make those techniques, hence no collaboration between the two. Kurama had like zero active role in it. In case of Kiba transforming Akamaru, Akamaru still has to maintain the transformation himself. In case of Naruto using Lavashuriken, "Son Goku" consciously molded its chakra and gave it to Naruto for the purpose of him using it for a technique. Your logic of Kurama being Mini-Rasenshuriken user and so is the same as it being user of Gentle Fist because Hinata did that using Kurama's chakra--Elveonora (talk) 20:08, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * So Kurama is a Kamui user now? Kurama, while in control of Naruto's body, gave Kakashi chakra so he could come and go into the other dimension more easily. We must add that Kurama is a Kamui user, and by consequence, a Mangekyo Sharingan wielder. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:39, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you guys trolling or something? I told you such logic would be like saying Kurama is a Gentle Fist user. We are talking about original techniques here. Rasengan for example isn't now a collaboration technique just because Naruto and Minato did it together.--Elveonora (talk) 18:43, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's the only one to show that merely providing chakra for another to perform a technique isn't a collaboration, as argued above, it seems. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:38, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hue hue hue.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:57, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should conclude that this is a unique situation. Naruto, as the Jinjuriki of the one tails and four tails, asked their chakra. The beasts had a choice of giving the chakra or not. Difference between bijuu mode and this, is that this chakra has been molded already by the beast itself. It was readily made and given to Naruto, whereas Naruto used raw Kyubi chakra (and B used raw Hachibi chakra). It might seem a little complicated, but it seems the best solution. Now to find a way to concretely put it together on the pages... Derigar (talk) 23:47, April 23, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni, you are missing the point. If party A does something for party B because party B can't do so on his/her own, it's a collaboration between the two. If party B merely uses something that belongs to party A, it isn't a collaboration. Kurama being Kamui user and so on doesn't work, because Kakashi can use Kamui without Kurama. Naruto used the two Rasengans with the "Tailed Beasts" providing their nature transformations for him, hence collaboration technique. Not sure if I can put it any clearer than this... A collaboration = effort of two parties to achieve a result--Elveonora (talk) 12:18, April 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * @Derigar: That's the issue, it's not a unique situation; it's not really any different from what we've already known about the tailed beast and their jinchuriki. When a jinchuriki is using a tailed beasts ability, for whatever reason, they are getting it from that tailed beast, be it by force or by jolly cooperation. Naruto asking or being given the chakra is exactly the same as him supplexing the Nine-Tails and using its chakra by force, its just going about it way way nicer. That's where the line in this entire discussion keeps hitting a wall, people fighting tooth and nail trying to find a difference between these two situations when there isn't one.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:32, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Stop making stuff up please. It's getting boring at this point.--Elveonora (talk) 12:56, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * When you stop being noticibly biased, dismissive of other people's arguments and being a dismissive prat.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:17, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * That was a bit much but I do not appreciate being accused of lying.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:24, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay "dismissive prat" apologies. I should have just said that I think you mix apples with oranges, that's all.
 * Anyway, quite a few people agree with my collaboration proposal, quite a few disagree... (even tho I'm yet to see an actual anti-argument that doesn't fail at its own "logic") but oh well.--Elveonora (talk) 13:52, April 24, 2014 (UTC)

What I seem to be missing is the moving goalposts of your arguments every time I give a situation in which your definition of combination technique doesn't work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:16, April 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't understand your Kamui logic. Kakashi can use Kamui without the need of any of Kurama's chakra. The point is that Naruto can not use both of the Rasengan without both of the chakra of 1 and 4 tails. These jutsu would never have been a thing without the addition of the Magnet/Lava Release of the Tailed Beasts along with Naruto using his Rasengan to make an entirely new version of the Rasengan. When Kurama gave Kakashi some chakra to mak his Kamui travel MORE EASY. They did not make a new techquine. They didn't make Nine Tails Kaumi or anything like that. Kurama did not use Kamui in any way. 1 tails and 4 tails used their respective releases with Naruto's rasengan to make a new version. Just like Jiraya and Gamabunta did with Fire Release: Toad Oil Flame Bullet. I don't understand why it's so hard to understand the points. Zelwolf (talk) 04:04, April 25, 2014 (UTC)Zelwolf
 * Just realized something. Shukaku and Son Goku's chakra are inside Naruto, so that's why it isn't a collab technique? A few seem to think that collab technique should be between two different users (am I correct?). And Kurama being Kamui's user doesn't make sense at all. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 07:08, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Ok my 5 cents on this matter. Just like Zelwolf used Gamabunta case i will do so. I hope we all remember Naruto summon training(when he was only jinchuriki of Kurama), when Jiraya pushed Naruto from rift, in his subconscious he demanded Kuramas chakra and then summoned GamaBoss. So by logic of half in this discussion this was collaboration technique between Kurama and Naruto now? Rage gtx (talk) 07:41, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Summoning Technique doesn't require more than 1 participant to use, so it isn't one even if used in a collaboration.--Elveonora (talk) 09:58, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * It depends on who using it, when Oto and Suna nin attacked Konoha there were definetly more than one shinobi sumoning snakes. Rage gtx (talk) 10:25, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that doesn't mean that Summoning Technique will be stated to be a collaboration technique in its infobox.--Elveonora (talk) 10:53, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * You missed whole point, i only imply Naruto asking chakra from Son and Shikaku to perform jitsu, not different from Naruto asking Kurama`s chakra to summon Gamabunta. That`s why Yoton Rasenshuriken and Jinton Rasengan are not collaboration jitsu. Rage gtx (talk) 11:15, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Omnibender Hahahahaha. Nice.
 * Anywho, I'm looking at the actual Collaboration Technique article, unless I'm reading it wrong, nothing jinchuriki do with their tailed beasts are ever collaboration techniques because the definition of a collaboration technique is two or more jutsus being used together, not giving someone else chakra. I'm pretty sure this argument was brought up before though...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:46, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

@Rage, except Kurama's chakra isn't a requirement to use summoning technique, while Son Goku and Shukaku's chakras are a requirement to use the Rasengans.--Elveonora (talk) 12:03, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok then here another exaple: Naruto in Valley of the End used Kurama chakra infused rasengan. This will meet your requirements? Becose obviously Naruto used Kurama chakra(Just like Son and Shikaku case) and Kyūbi offered his chakra(like Shikaku did). Rage gtx (talk) 12:23, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * And even then Rage gtx, it still wouldn't count as a collaboration technique because chakra does not equal jutsu, which per definition is a collaboration technique.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:56, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * @TheUltimate3, but i against them counting as collaboration technique!!!And now you confused me more saying that. Rage gtx (talk) 13:04, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know you are. And yes it is a confusing issue, especially since the arguments for counting them changes readily.
 * To clarify; Naruto using Kurama's chakra to do the Summoning Technique does not make it a collaboration technique for two reasons: 1, the technique doesn't actually require two people to do, and 2, Kurama provided chakra, it in no way did a completely separate technique that was combined to make a new one. Shukaku and Son Goku provided Naruto with chakra, they did not use a different technique and gave that to Naruto, they gave him chakra.
 * Per definition of Collaboration Techniques, those are not Collaboration Techs because they just provided chakra.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:08, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except Combination Transformation is a collaboration technique even tho it's cast by one person onto another and the latter just may provide chakra, so obviously it is--Elveonora (talk) 17:12, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Which actually brings up a question; was that ever actually called a collaboration technique? Because if memory serves me correctly, it was only actually "made" in an anime only arc and we, using common sense, applied it to everything it made sense. And even back then, in it's earliest edit, the direct explanation of it was using "two or more jutsu that feed off each other and become a jutsu of greater power than the sum of it's parts".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:30, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

No idea if collaboration technique has even any canonical definition. So claiming it works like this or that may be both wrong considering no exact definition was possibly given. Although I would suspect that techniques in canon which require to be cast by multiple subjects would fall under such category, even tho the term itself may be anime-only or something--Elveonora (talk) 18:21, April 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * According to the earliest creation of the article; it was never explicitly stated in the manga but fleshed out in the anime, with a specific explanation of what it was; two or more techniques that make up a new technique greater than the sum of it's parts.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:15, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

it does have a canonical definition, one party lending chakra and another performing the technique is a collaboration technique as far as Kishimoto is concerned, in 135 Gamabunta lends naruto his chakra to perform a Combination Transformation which is a Collaboration Technique. From this is think we should define combination techniques as Willful providing of a component of a jutsu, at the moment of it's use. not to be confused with buffs like giving kakashi loads of chakra so he can warp freely, or every technique used by the ninja allianceDwelf (talk) 11:03, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

Earth and Fire Release
Does Naruto actually possess these abilities? There has been a hefty discussion on the nature of his Lava Release Kekkei Genkai, and the general consensus was that he borrowed it from Son Gokū. This doesn't mean that Naruto is capable of manipulating Fire or Earth Release, it simply means that he is capable of utilizing the borrowed Lava Release from Son. Am I on the right lines here, or have I misinterpreted something? Atrix471 (talk) 14:02, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * You are right, but don't bother because people make up silly reasons to cover their fallacies. As I already said, natures that a character doesn't know how to/can't use shouldn't be listed in his/her/its infobox, that's my opinion anyway.--Elveonora (talk) 14:09, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * There is an entire thread somewhere else. Go there. And you Elveonora, curb your need to go around doing digs at other people every time the topic comes up, specially since this topic is already somewhere else, or it will be curbed for you. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:30, May 7, 2014 (UTC)

Why has Yin, Yang and Yin-Yang been removed?
What's the reason for their removal?--Reliops (talk) 22:20, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * The reason for their absence is because of no reason for their presence--Elveonora (talk) 22:22, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * In that case, the Truth-Seeking Ball page needs an update. It states that the technique type is Yin-Yang Release, but if that is not an essential requirement then it is somewhat misleading. Atrix471 (talk) 22:26, May 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Tell that to Foxie-sama and to Ulti, too.--Elveonora (talk) 09:16, May 8, 2014 (UTC)

Classification as a medic-nin?
In light of his newfound healing abilities, I think classifying Naruto as a medic makes sense. The only sensible argument against it is, IMO, that Naruto heals in a way that no other medic does and thus isn't a medic in the common sense of the way.

But still, the fact is that he does heal people should make him a medic-nin. --Veenp (talk) 21:33, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

I'm against that, he doesn't fit the qualifications. The major thing is that it isn't his job, nor was he ever trained in the things medical ninja can do. If he never got half of Hagoromo's power he wouldn't be doing the whole "Magical Hand" thing he has going on.--Narutofox94 (talk) 23:29, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

Being a healer/Jesus isn't the same as being a medic-nin. Being a medic-nin requires you to not only know medical ninjutsu, but be able to perform them. And, assumingly, perform them at a high level (because some nutjob could half-ass it). --Taynio (talk) 00:23, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

He's not using medical ninjutsu, so no. Karin can heal by letting others bite and suck her chakra, that doesn't make her a medical-nin. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:40, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

I almost used a swear word and offended someone, but my palm and face meet each other so often that it begins to hurt. Medical-ninja is an occupation/specialization/profession/whatever. Knowing how to heal others just doesn't make you one.--Elveonora (talk) 12:55, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

Alright I went a little strong with "should make him a medic-nin", especially considering the fact that Naruto started healing a couple chapters ago. I should have said "should Naruto be considered a medic? Discuss.". After reading the past comments I think the settling argument is "Medic-nin is a well-defined category of people in which Naruto doesn't fit". Got it. By these standards, Hashirama isn't a medic-nin either, which makes sense since there is no mention (correct me if I'm wrong) of him healing other people. Karin isn't a medic either since she doesn't use a technique but lets others suck on her chakra. Naruto, who actually uses a technique to heal others, isn't a medic either since it is not his official occupation and he doesn't use the Mystical Palm Technique. So considering him a medic or not is just a matter of strict definition and I don't get why the wiki's definition of what a medic is is exclusively based on Tsunade's quotes. --Veenp (talk) 16:33, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Even a medic and medical-ninja are two separate things. A medical-ninja is also a medic, but a medic isn't necessarily a ninja. A ninja who can heal others isn't by that alone a medical-ninja. He/she has to have knowledge of human anatomy, being capable of using medical ninjutsu etc. and most importantly, being officially recognized as one.--Elveonora (talk) 19:34, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto being an indirect Kotoamatsukami user and indirectly stopping Edo Tensei.
I know that Itachi transferred his Kotoamatsukami crow (with Shisui's left eye) to Naruto before the big Sasuke vs. Itachi battle.

My questions: 1. Since Naruto "activated" the crow when helping Bee fight Edo Nagato and Edo Itachi and because hes spit it out of his body, couldn't we technically list Naruto as Kotoamatsukami user (but indirectly because the direct users would be the crow and Shisui's left eye)?

2. If it weren't for the crow being spit out of Naruto's mouth, Edo Itachi likely would've still been under Kabuto's control. By extension, Itachi would've released Edo Tensei and used Izanami on Kabuto. Because of the crow "freeing" Itachi, could we technically say that Itachi wouldn't have accomplished these feats if it weren't for Naruto spitting out the crow? --Mike 16:43, May 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * 1) Naruto didn't use it, not even indirectly. It was the crow that had it. Naruto just at the crow hidden in him.
 * 2) That's like saying that guy who told Naruto to steal the kinjutsu scroll in the first chapter in indirectly responsible for Naruto becoming Ninja-Jesus. The actions of one can lead to the actions of another but that is not something worth mentioning in the article.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:47, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

Age
Hasn't a full day passed since the time Obito said tomorrow was the anniversary of Minato and Kushina's death? Wouldn't that meant that Naruto is now 17? Atrix471 (talk) 16:17, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Why are people so hellbent on making Naruto 17? Obito said that of the next day, and as 677 clearly mentioned, it's still night-time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:56, May 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Alright, no need to get all upset. Just posin' a question. Atrix471 (talk) 17:58, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not because you asked a question, it's because I've lost count of how many people have asked that question, or worse, went ahead and made the change anyway without pausing a second to realise Naruto's birthday is, to our knowledge, still hours-away in-universe. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:12, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

yin-yang nature
in the 2 latest chapters we see him forming TBBRS out of TSB...and if I'm not mistaken, he used the one he got from madara out of sakura's body to form the first TBBRS...since madara had the yin-yang nature added to his balls [and by balls I mean TSB...not his balls...lame joke, I know :D] and naruto could not only touch and being immune to its effects, but manipulate it into his own jutsu, is it safe to assume that naruto can use yin-yang too...or is it too speculative... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:31, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

and also 1 more point...since he created TBBRS out of TSB and the TBB are comprised of white & black chakra...does this mean that the white & black chakra are yin-yang...or I'm just stupidly speculating things... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 11:34, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, b&w chakra = y&y. Also, when did Madara use YYR through the TSB? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:51, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

if yes then it should be put in the infobox...or at least be mentioned in a trivia or something that it's related to yin-yang... the moment he became the jubi's jinchuriki :|...the same as when tobi gained control of it...it has been stated in the manga too that he can use yin-yang in conjunction with his balls...and in his article in this wiki too if I'm not mistaken... --DARK ZER06 (talk) 12:16, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seel, your logic is flawed, otherwise Yin and Yang-Kurama wouldn't be able to use the Tailed Beast Ball by themselves.--JOA20 (talk) 12:18, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Huh, okay. Well, I can only say that I'd wait with adding anything not explicitly stated in the manga, simply because things can change every chapter right now.
 * @JOA: I doubt that Yin and Yang-Kurama use their own body during the TBB. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:22, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seelentau, Madara used YYR through the TSB when he cuted Minato second hand Rage gtx (talk) 12:24, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Aye, I remember. But again, I'd wait with adding any kind of statement that would be a fact but wasn't stated as a fact. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:26, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

We were never told that positive black and negative white chakras equal yin-yang release or anything--Elveonora (talk) 15:10, May 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's some other mysterious stuff, never ever elaborated on, but it sure ain't Y&Y because muh facts. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:21, May 22, 2014 (UTC)

I think ying-yang release must be added to naruto because he used trruth seeking ball or we should delete ying-yang release from truth seeking ball

Tailed beasts
Technically speaking aren't the tailed beasts sealed inside Madara since he is the new jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails and not Naruto? Only portions of their chakra is sealed within Naruto, but not the beasts themselves. Even Naruto's current senjutsu chakra cloak seems still reminiscent of Kurama's. So shouldn't we edit this in the infobox? I think the only beast actually sealed within him is Yin Kurama.  Banan 14  kab  12:00, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * I tied to explain this to them but to no avail. They have their stubborn minds set on Naruto being a jinchuuriki of all 9 TBs just because their chakras talk.--Elveonora (talk) 13:19, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yea I really don't think the beasts are sealed in Naruto. And only Son Gokū and Shukaku have talked to Naruto. Where are the other 7? And since Madara sealed all the beasts back into the Statue of the Outer Path, before becoming the Shinju's jinchuriki we know they aren't sealed in Naruto...even if their chakra show consciousness and talk to him. Banan 14  kab  13:38, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * I would be perfectly happy to remove Naruto as jinchuriki of the others if you give me a good reason as to why you think Minato is still a jinchuriki if "the chakra talking" isn't enough for Naruto.
 * When asked last time, you said "That's because Yin-Kurama was split off from Yang-Kurama."
 * To which, I probably didn't respond becaues Ten Tailed Fox had already tore open asses during that conversation and I had work to do, I would respond with "We already knew the Yin-chakra was split off. The only reason we listed Minato as a full jinchuriki was because his Kurama started talking."
 * Then you responded "Then Naruto is the jinchuriki of Minato, Kushina, and ect." Somewhere, this would get added "Also everyone Naruto shared chakra with is also a jinchuriki then"
 * Which was responded with "Minato, Kushina, ect are not tailed beasts. The status of being jinchuriki do not apply to them. Also Naruto never sealed the chakra in those people, they were essentially wearing Kurama's chakra."
 * So yeah. This and that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:48, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Unless proven otherwise, Yin Kurama isn't "just" a bit of chakra split from Yang Kurama, but a separate entity in all regards. Unlike the 8 "Tailed Beasts" inside of Naruto, since you know, they aren't Yin Shukaku, Yin Matatabi etc.

What happened with Kurama was a result of Shiki Fujin, an unique case. There's no evidence that the Tailed Beasts get cloned when you cut a piece of one. Long story short: Yin Kurama =/= 1-8 Tailed Beasts in Naruto.

Yin Kurama and Yang Kurama are like split Second Mizukage, each is as real as the other. While 1-8 TBs' chakra fragments inside of Naruto being conscious is no evidence that they are the same as Yin Kurama. Since you know, chakra can be conscious, hence Shadow Clones and so--Elveonora (talk) 14:13, May 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Exact same argument you've used before. So yeah, the result is on the page. So I see no reason to further my involvement in this discussion. Have fun.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:20, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * No reason to change my argument since it's completely valid. It's you guys who have absolutely no evidence. The funniest part is that you even adjusted what a pseudo-jinchuuriki is so it would fulfill your wish of fallacy coming true. For many years a pseudo-jinchuuriki was someone who had powers of a Tailed Beasts without actually having one inside. Yet suddenly that was changed into: "Oh no, no... a pseudo-jinchuurki's tailed beast chakra can't speak, speaking chakra makes a jinchuuriki" --Elveonora (talk) 14:35, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Which had to be done because of the stink that Yin-Kurama made when it started talking to Minato. So yeah, like I said, I would be glad to make everyone but the people whom we know were jinchuriki be jinchuriki of the "physical" tailed beast we know of if that would soothe the butt hurt you feel over this. But because you are just as adamant that talking Kurama in Minato is just as much a tailed beast as talking Kurama in Naruto, but talking Son Goku is just extra chakra to give Naruto a super mode, then yeah. What we have is what we have until proven otherwise.
 * Tough. I know.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:39, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Talking Kuramas were at least split into yin and yang and with shiki fujin. Obito didn't split Shukaku and Gyuki into yin and yang. The worst part is, that Naruto in fact had received chakras of Tailed Beasts 2-7 through fistbump so according to this, the whole shinobi alliance now also must be jinchuurikis because they got Kurama's chakra the same way--Elveonora (talk) 14:47, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Lawl. I even mentioned you'd retreat back to that argument. Well played. Well played indeed. I was exasperated. Now I am pleasantly amused.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:06, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not in mood for jokes and I'm definitely not here wasting my time for your amusement. The current distinction between a jinchuuriki and a pseudo is flawed. You ignore what makes a jinchuuriki. A jinchuuriki is someone who has a Tailed Beast sealed inside with a fuuinjutsu. Naruto hasn't had at least beasts from 2-7 sealed into him anyway, he was fistbumped. The amount of chakra doesn't play a part in that.--Elveonora (talk) 15:13, May 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * You may not be playing the game, but that doesn't mean you aren't in it. Anyway, the definition of a jinchuriki is having a tailed beast in them. No seal was used to put Yin-Kurama in Naruto, just Obito just stuck it in. As such while using a physical (or metaphysical) seal is one method, a fuinjutus is not required. We already know that the tailed beast gave Naruto chakra, hence why they showed up and gave the Ten-Tails a freak out, and later when all were gathering they were even told that Naruto now had all the tailed beast within him. You are correct, the amount of chakra is meaningless. The result is not.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:28, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * So are you telling me they cloned themselves? Because after the fistbump, the beasts were still there and had gotten resealed. The whole purpose of the fistbump was to give Naruto a little piece of chakra, not to procreate.--Elveonora (talk) 18:06, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Essentially, yes. Be it life breathed into that chakra by the Sage or the chakra was supposed to "develop" into full consciousness, makes little difference to me as the end result is fully functional tailed beasts in Naruto. That's all that really matters to me.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:17, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Although Hagoromo also appeared in the same dimensions as the Tailed Beasts. Is he sealed inside of Naruto and is Naruto Hagoromo's jinchuuriki then? ;)--Elveonora (talk) 18:20, May 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * Jesus Christ, this again? I'm going to need alcohol for this. For the sake of not starting a shitstorm, I'll just say I agree with Ultimate. My argument is in the sections above. I'm done arguing this to a brick wall. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:23, May 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * For the last time, Elve, is Hagoromo a tailed beast? No? Then no Naruto isn't. The definition of jinchuriki involves tailed beasts, so drop that nonsensical, senile argument. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:25, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * "the definition of a jinchuriki involves tailed beasts" was that actually ever stated?--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, May 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * By Chiyo in the Rescue Gaara arc. I actually laughed at this question. Are you so desparate to get your way that you're going to this length? This is truly getting old, really fast. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:42, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Fire Release Nature Type
I don't know if this has been discussed already, but I was wondering why exactly does Naruto have Fire Release in his infobox? Shouldn't he not have it at all? He cannot actually use his own chakra or any chakra at all to produce fire techniques. Magnet and Lava Release I understand, but Fire Release is a whole different thing. He used an explosive tag to perform a collaborative technique with Gamabunta. Again take patience with me if this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it so I'm bringing it up.  Banan 14  kab  04:10, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Refer to many topics regarding the same matter all over the place. Guys list him as a Fire and Earth Release user because he did a Lava Rasenshuriken. He didn't mold those natures himself, so in my opinion he shouldn't be listed, but it's not like my opinion has any value around here or anything--Elveonora (talk) 10:09, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Go cry somewhere else, I'm sick of you playing the victim. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:31, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't confuse cynicism with martyr complex--Elveonora (talk) 12:45, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

So can anyone actually answer my questions...?  Banan 14  kab  15:52, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * He has it because he made a Lava release Rasenshuriken. Since Lava release is made of fire and earth nature. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 17:12, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * He didn't make the lava tho, Son Goku phantom did--Elveonora (talk) 17:13, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Can you stop it with your double standard, Elveonora? Naruto using Lava Release is no different than Roshi using Lava Release. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 18:38, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * And before this spirals into the realm of goddamnit, let's leave it at that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:50, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * @SSS, and you know that exactly because?... We didn't see how it worked in Roshi's case. But we know how it doesn't in Naruto's. So we either assume Roshi couldn't use Fire and Earth either and remove the natures from his infobox so it's even or that he could and keep them as are. But for Naruto, there's no reason to keep them--Elveonora (talk) 19:18, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Yin-Yang Release
I beeive we should add ying-yang release to naruto or delete them from truth seeking ball Because we can't say that Naruto didn't use ying-yang release while he use truth seeking ball which are ying-yang release. So we got two options 1 ==> Naruto don't use yin-yan release (TSB aren't yin-yang release ) 2 ==> TSB are yin-yan release (nARUTO USES YIN-yang release ) Because we can't say a=b & b=c then a#c.
 * TSB ain't YYR, it should have been removed long ago--Elveonora (talk) 10:13, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

I've just edited them right now

Long story short: when it first started showing ninjutsu cancelling effect, people added it to TSB. I agree with them not being YYR per se, and would like to attribute that effect to a separate technique, but the rationale of its use without the cancelling effect being a result of not having control over the technique, like shown with Obito, was enough for me to consider it, can't speak for others. Since every posterior of them was against senjutsu, we can't really say they don't have the cancelling effect. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:31, June 5, 2014 (UTC)