Talk:Demonic Illusion: Mirage Crow

This shouldn't have a page until confirmed to actually exist
There's no reason to believe that this is an actual technique of its own, and not simply a variation of Utakata/Ephemeral. 74.236.82.102 (talk) 15:53, August 9, 2011 (UTC)Clockwork

I agree, its just some random genjutsu not listed in databook or said in manga so I think it should be removed.--89.173.25.116 (talk) 16:10, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

This genjutsu is different from Ephemeral...in this one does not turn the crows in shuriken nor make the user see his body parts as someone elses parts...and there are several characters who have un-named techniques and every ability is listed when shown in the manga and anime. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:57, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Even if it wasn't different we don't have enough information on "Ephemeral" to make any decisions about it.--Cerez365™ 16:59, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Name
I believe i have attained its name. In Naruto Shippuden Ultimate ninja Heroes 3 video of itachi moveset i have found him using a technique that is this one but its called Genjutsu: Demon Wind Raven. I know Omnibender has a website with many games and it should have the japanese translation somewhere there. Also possibility for the translation could be Genjutsu Fūma Karasu. (Fūma = Wind Demon) and (Karasu = thought being crow can also mean raven from what ive read) and as dusk crow genjutsu is merely a given name for the technique as it werent properly named this could be a more appropriate name? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 11:00, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Found it. Not too sure if I can say it's the same thing.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:40, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I would say it is due to the nature of the technique where it creates crows that then turn into shuriken but if people think its different then perhaps it could then be made into a page as a variant of the Dusk Crow Genjutsu ? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 11:47, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

actually i know exactly what talking about and the technique is named evil illusion mirage raven. check it for yourself98.26.240.179 (talk) 18:53, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

The crows turned to shuriken in Ephemeral not this one.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 18:56, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

no no in this one it just makes crows fly out from itachi's body.98.26.240.179 (talk) 19:02, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

The sites I have deal mostly with games Ultimate Ninja, UN2, UN3, UN4 and UN5. I'll have to look it up a bit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:27, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

This isnt evil illusion mirage raven thats a Tsukuyomi technique this one creates crows that then turn into shuriken as it falls on the opponent. and as for the ephermal useage in games it doesnt actually use the seing faces of friends but seing as there is a general view of leaning away from ephermal it should therefore be classified as a derived jutsu as it has similarities to the technique and ultimate would have been designed based on the jutsu and itachi's crow useage. And thanks Omnibender ^_^ --Zenryoku90 (talk) 16:39, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Sasuke as a user
Sasuke used this jutsu while fighting Danzou (When he summoned all the crows), Yes?--Omojuze (talk) 21:20, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

No, Sasuke did a genjutsu inside of a genjutsu, it was supposed to appear that Itachi was there--Elveonora (talk) 23:30, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Merge into Ephemeral
I think Ephemeral is a genjutsu that can have what the victim sees whatever the victim wants them to see. This is just one of the many possible visions, so let's merge it, like we did Susanoo Genjutsu and Burning Paper Genjutsu into the Genjutsu: Sharingan. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 22:17, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

So should we merge, since this is just Ephemeral with a different vision. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 05:38, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

"no eye contact"
That's false, it clearly shows Itachi's Crow trapping Naruto in the genjutsu--Elveonora (talk) 03:24, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

I noticed that too. I was wondering if anyone else noticed.71.71.58.231 (talk) 03:30, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

You sure? I always saw the crow as being part of the genjutsu, not being the one to cast it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:11, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

There wouldn't be a reason to draw 2 panels showing Naruto establish an eye contact with the crow--Elveonora (talk) 21:49, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

There is no sense in Itachi carrying that many crows under his cloak. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:35, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Neither is there any sense in Orochimaru keeping snakes in his sleeves "_" those crows were summons. Look at those pages again, Naruto notices the crow and is caught in the genjutsu by looking into it's eye--Elveonora (talk) 23:03, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily summons. Up until Edo Itachi, we never had confirmation he summoned crows, since other than Crow Clone Technique, all the times Itachi used crows, they were genjutsu. We've seen Itachi having crows with Sharingan in other occasions as well. When he meets up with Sasuke, just after he implants the crow into Naruto, there's a crow with Sharingan in both sockets when they meet. Are you saying Itachi has a murder of Sharingan-implanted crows? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:14, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and no. This is a very weird case, because those supposedly genjutsu crows (2 sharingan eyes) left feathers behind. Also in this instance, only 1 crow with 1 Sharingan is shown--Elveonora (talk) 23:38, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

I always took it that Itachi summoned abunch of crows and the one that had Shisui's Mangekyō Sharingan put Naruto in that illusion.71.71.58.231 (talk) 23:45, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

From the angle, only one eye is visible. I'm also reluctant to find that this is the real crow, because Itachi rigged the eye to cast Kotoamatsukami, that would be a very important eye, which I find odd at the very least for Itachi to simply use it to cast such a basic genjutsu if he was saving it for something so much more important. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, December 22, 2012 (UTC)

Same technique & Sasuke
Given that the two are very similar, would it be safe to say that this = Demonic Illusion: Mirage Raven (The "Tsukuyomi Mode" is a game-exclusive awakening btw)?--Omojuze (talk) 13:04, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

The two look the same to me.—Steveo920 (Talk) 10:51, September 13, 2015

- Also, why not adding Sasuke as a user? I haven't seen any solid explanations as to how Sasuke actually "created" the crows, aside from Genjutsu: Sharingan. However, so far, only Itachi's signature genjutsu (which include this one) use crows. I'd suggest adding him as a user as well.--Omojuze (talk) 19:49, September 13, 2015 (UTC)

Going by looks alone, I'd agree, but the game jutsu is derived from Tsukuyomi, and Itachi didn't use MS to cast this. In fact, I'm not sure why it was even changed to say it's a Sharingan genjutsu, as it was previously derived from Ephemeral. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:55, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not derived from Tsukuyomi, it's just that Itachi used that technique in a specific awakening, which includes the word "Tsukuyomi". Also, it's not derived from Ephemeral: They have nothing in common aside from being able to be cast without eye contact (and even so, this one can use eye contact and in every use, it was seen with the Sharingan).--Omojuze (talk) 20:59, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I've played the game before and "Tsukuyomi Mode" being derived from "Tsukuyomi" is a really big stretch... >.< --Omojuze (talk) 21:00, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Imo Sasuke used this technique with his sharingan. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:38, September 14, 2015 (UTC)

Why is this listed as Kekkei Genkai?
Is there any evidence that a Sharingan is necessary for this technique? If not lets remove that. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:11, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * It is derived from Genjutsu: Sharingan and if a technique has a parent which requires a Kekkei Genkai, then all derivatives of the parent technique automatically need it too. Read the infobox. --Sajuuk 22:13, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah but the thing is, no eye contact is needed and Ephemeral isn't even listed with Genjutsu: Sharingan. Is this an oversight or just an assumption? Arrancar79 (talk) 22:16, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * The crows in illusion have Sharingan as eyes, so there's that. --JouXIII (talk) 22:17, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Arrancar79: Can you read the actual article first? "However, direct eye contact can still be applied <...>". Here you go, case solved.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 22:18, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Can be applied" hence it's not necessary. Spare you me your smug comments. As far as the eyes having Sharingan, it's a Genjutsu that doesn't indicate anything like it would with Nine Tails having Sharingan eyes when controlled for example. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:22, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * If eye contact can be applied, then it's automatically a dojutsu, and if a dojutsu uses Sharingan, it's classified as a kekkei genkai..--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 22:25, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * No, that's not how that works. If it can be done without eyes that proves it's not a Dojutsu. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:29, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sharingan not activated would make this not a doujutsu, not lack of eye contact, or is Izanagi now not a doujutsu? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 22:35, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * That is an interesting point but I don't see any hard evidence that Sharingan is required for this Genjutsu. It all sounds like a big assumption and with Ephemeral not requiring Sharingan I'm inclined to believe this is the same. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:43, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ephemeral has nothing to do with the Sharingan and is just a generic genjutsu cast with the finger. Whereas this technique is stated to be a derivative of a technique that uses the Sharingan. Putting 2 and 2 together means that this technique needs the Sharingan. --Sajuuk 22:48, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Where is that stated? This has never been in a databook, you can't source the article when the discussion is about whether the information is correct. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:54, June 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's exactly how it works. If a jutsu can be used through an eye - it's a dojutsu. And here's a comment from the past. Like, we ain't gonna change it just 'cause a single user jumps around about how he/she thinks that it might not be the case when we have many factors that support their opposite view... :D--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 08:22, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * As far as I can remember, the crows in this genjutsu don't have the Sharingan, only the one embedded with Shisui's eye did.--JOA2008:54, June 21, 2016 (UTC
 * Chapter 366, page 7. Crow in illusion is shown with Sharingan. --JouXIII (talk) 10:53, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, in its left eye. Just like the crow embedded with Shisui's eye. No other crow has the Sharingan.--JOA2012:49, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * In episode 126, if you look closely, you can see both eyes of crow being Sharingan. --JouXIII (talk) 13:04, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * That would be an error, given how SP had no reason to animate Shisui's crow with only 1 sharingan. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:44, June 21, 2016 (UTC)

Even so, the crow with Sharingan within genjutsu in chapter 366 is not the crow with Shisui's Sharingan, because as shown with its reveal in chapter 549/550 and Itachi's flashback in chapter 590, Shisui's Sharingan was in Mangekyō-state when he removed it and Itachi implanted it in crow, only reverting back to regular Sharingan after using Kotoamatsukami. In other words, that crow with Sharingan in chapter 366 is part of genjutsu. --JouXIII (talk) 14:09, June 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * @BerserkerPhantom No, there is no evidence this is a Sharingan technique. Naruto was in the Genjutsu before he made eye contact with the crow (the only thing he made eye contact with). The only evidence that eye contact "can be used" is from the article and that came out of nowhere. It shouldn't be in the article for one thing because it confuses the issue, eye contact can be uses as a medium for any Genjutsu, Sharingan or not and there no reason to believe it is necessary. It doesn't matter if I'm the only person that is arguing this point, that doesn't make me more or less right/wrong. The burden of proof is on it being a Sharingan technique, eye contact wasn't met so where's the evidence? Arrancar79 (talk) 21:29, June 21, 2016 (UTC)