Talk:Black Receiver

okay.....
What exactly is the difference between this and Will Materialisation? What we know: But then the article claims that the Black Rods are a result of it too, while in this article, it says Rinnegan produces them.--Elve Talk Page 09:59, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Kaguya used it to make Black Zetsu
 * Madara can use it too, because he thought that he had made Black Zetsu
 * Will Materialisation is more of a general technique used to manifest someone's will, whereas the receivers are actual tools, as their main use was to control people (ie Six Paths of Pain, Revived Shinobi through Edo Tensei etc).
 * When the receivers were introduced, they were simply described as a chakra demodulation tool (ie a receiver and transmitter of chakra) and weren't described as being the manifestation of the user's will, until Madara came along and said they were. However, this page should stay, because it's essentially a tool that was specifically described in the series, even if it's similar to a technique. --Sajuuk 10:10, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Thing is that Madara said that the black rod from clone Hashirama's navel is his will. The topic is more about the source of the black rods and how they differ, if they do. There's a reference to Databook 4 saying that Rinnegan users can make them. Did Madara make his Black Rods with Rinnegan or Will Materialisation? Not to mention some Black Rods disappeared after their makes has been weakened or died, while others persisted, so there seems to be a difference.--Elve Talk Page 12:33, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Did Nagato use Will Materialisation to produce black rods? As far as I'm aware, he didn't: therefore the production of black rods is a Rinnegan technique and not actual "will materialisation". --Sajuuk 12:38, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * What about Madara's statement then?--Elve Talk Page 18:40, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Did we ever see Nagato actually produce the black rods? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:47, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * As he was controlling and channeling the abilities through the Six Paths, he made them produce the black rods.. biggest example is the Deva Path, so it's safe to assume that he can since he is making his paths do it too. QuakingStar (talk) 18:57, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * The Paths used by Nagato are dead bodies controlled by his chakra, therefore he was the user. He also produced a similar rod from his walking machine. --Sajuuk 19:00, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Chapter numbers? • Seelentau 愛 議 19:22, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's in one of the chapters covered by this episode. --Sajuuk 19:42, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Chapter 444, to be exact. Pretty morbid number... --JouXIII (talk) 19:52, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * And where did Nagato produce a rod there? • Seelentau 愛 議 19:54, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well he created a rod in the episode at around 15:15, which I would assume came from him. --Sajuuk 19:59, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Dunno about the anime, but in the manga, he just shoots it. From what I know, he's never actually seen creating it (in the way Madara did, at least). • Seelentau 愛 議 20:01, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * In the anime, he simply shoots it, but he clearly makes a statement of "At this close range, I can easily control your movements with my chakra". There would be no way he could control movement with chakra if the rod wasn't infused with it in the first place, suggesting he must have "created" the rod, just not in the conventional manner that Madara did.
 * Additionally, all of Nagato's Six Paths weren't physically seen holding their hand out and producing a rod from thin air, they just appeared at their hands from nowhere. --Sajuuk 20:04, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * The rods are chakra conductors, Nagato can send his chakra through them. That doesn't mean he created it. I mean, Asuma can infuse his weapons with his chakra, but he didn't create them.
 * I only know of one scene where a rod appears, which is when Tendo stabs Hinata. A rod slides out of his cloak. But even that scene doesn't depict Tendo actually creating the rod. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:09, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Asuma has to be physically touching his weapon to infuse chakra though. No shinobi has been seen infusing random things with chakra over thin air, they've always had to "touch" some aspect of the weapon to get the chakra into them. Unless they have telepathic mind waves to send chakra through the air (except in the case of genjutsu). --Sajuuk 20:11, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Naruto was able to do that as well, wasn't he? That's how he found Nagato, I think. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:23, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * No, he simply embedded a rod into himself and used Sage Mode to follow the chakra trail that resulted from it, that doesn't count. --Sajuuk 20:26, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * He didn't use Sage Mode, I think. At least not in the manga. But I still don't understand how Nagato being able to send chakra through the rods makes him the creator of the rods. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:30, May 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Is that relevant to the origin of the black rods and topic at hand?--Elve Talk Page 06:48, May 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm looking at the panel right now Seel is right he didn't have to use Sage Mode to use the reciever. QuakingStar (talk) 07:09, May 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, Naruto tells Inoichi he found him in Sage Mode on chapter 443 page 12, so he did indeed use Sage Mode, Kishi just forgot to draw it there. QuakingStar (talk) 07:22, May 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Elve: It's relevant to determine whether it's a Rinnegan technique or not. --Sajuuk 07:47, May 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * Naruto is in Sage Mode in both the anime and manga when he locates Nagato. It happens in chapter 441, Naruto just stabs himself with a rod again in 443 to... feel everyone's pain, I guess? And I never noticed before, but the panels in 441 actually do make it look like Naruto is sending his own chakra to the rods in Nagato's back, rather than the other way around, though it's not entirely clear. Nagato just says he traced it back to him.--BeyondRed (talk) 09:23, May 12, 2016 (UTC)

Apparently Databook 4 Jin no Sho states that Rinnegan can create Black Rods. If that's true, then the question is more about the rods supposedly made with Will Materialisation. The Demonic Statue used Black Rods, it/Kaguya doesn't have the Rinnegan. So maybe someone else like Madara put them inside?... Or were those different? When Madara ejects black rods from plant clone Hashirama, he says it's his will, he also puts some inside Obito, but he doesn't have Rinnegan at the time.--Elve Talk Page 11:15, May 12, 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm the one who added that databook reference, but originally just to say they were related to the Rinnegan. What the book says is "one with the Rinnegan opened distributes the trademark black receivers" in reference to activating the Six Red Yang Formation. If the Rinnegan does create them, it's surely not the way, just like the Truth-Seeking Balls, Six Paths Senjutsu, and flight ability apparently have multiple origins. As for Nagato, we never actually see him or the Pains grow rods out of their bodies as it's always done off-panel, but chapter 442 has Deva Path use one after his sleeve's been blown off, so there's nowhere else he could be pulling it out of.--BeyondRed (talk) 11:36, May 12, 2016 (UTC)