Talk:Gold and Silver Brothers

Head wear
That thing on their's heads remember me an indigenous cockhade. Should it be on the page??? --The ultimate fan of NARUTO--  welimer2 (talk) 19:36, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * A what? —ShounenSuki (talk 20:28, January 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * A Type of "hat" that the leaders of indigenous villages uses! --The ultimate fan of NARUTO--  welimer2 (talk) 20:56, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's already mentioned that they're wearing headdresses Cerez365 (talk) 21:00, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK... but it has feathers!!!! ahhhh whatever... --The ultimate fan of NARUTO--  welimer2 (talk) 21:03, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * The leaders of the indigenous villages of what? Antarctica? Belgium? Mars? Any way, their hair/headdresses resemble shaguma headdresses to me. —ShounenSuki (talk 21:42, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Like this?--KIWIBOλ (talk) 21:47, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah! --The ultimate fan of NARUTO--  welimer2 (talk) 21:50, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also It would be very possible. Cuz as in Kumo have Dark-skinned people, it's possible that,it have indigenous people too. --The ultimate fan of NARUTO--  welimer2 (talk) 21:54, January 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Indigenous' just means "originally from this place!" Europe's full of indigenous white-skinned people, likewise China and most of it's ethnic groups! Indigenous doesn't mean any specific type of ethnicity. This has nothing to do with Naruto, it's just bugging me ^^ ZeroSD (talk) 12:00, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

Saiyūki
I don't feel like writing a pretty piece of text, so I'll just dump this information here. Kinkaku and Ginkaku are obviously based on two characters from the Chinese classic Journey to the West. In this story, Kingaku and Ginkaku are two demon king brothers, also known as the and the. They live in the on.

They have five treasured tools, called the, the , the the , and the. The pot and the gourd can suck in their opponents and melt them. Ginkaku also has a technique that allows him to move mountains. —ShounenSuki (talk 09:52, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * "Ginkaku also has a technique that allows him to move mountains."
 * That sounds romantic. ♥ ~SnapperTo 20:33, February 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, very romantic ^^ Especially when he used it to move Mt Meru, Mt Emei, and Mt Tai to seal up Sūn Wùkōng ^ω^ —ShounenSuki (talk 21:34, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wish I could read Japanese, sounds like a good book, and apparently, full of romance? ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 21:53, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

I looove romance!♥♥♥

Is it really romantic?-- Ninja Sheik  22:01, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Of course it is. Hasn't anyone ever said, "I'd move mountains for you"? It's how you know the relationship is really going somewhere, because they can only think of nonsense-cliches when they want to seduce you. ~SnapperTo 22:35, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

How sweet! Has anyone really read the whole story before?-- Ninja Sheik  22:36, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Should this information be added to each of their articles, or is just having it on the team page sufficient enough? ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 23:52, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Really guys? Is this what the talk pages have been reduced to? Blat-meh =_= I suppose we should add all that stuff Shounen put ↑ but not the mushy stuff =| --Cerez (talk) 23:56, February 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't worry Cerez, I wasn't even thinking of mentioning Ginkaku's women-seducing abilities in the trivia. ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 00:19, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Women-seducing abilities!?! Ooh, ooh! Tell me about those, pretty please?!-- Ninja Sheik  00:22, February 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've only read some segments and summaries of the actual text online, and even that was translated (and I'm sure some meaning was lost through the translating process) and most of the things I know concerning his supposed "women-seducing abilities" I have gathered from this discussion, sorry to disappoint you, hahaha. ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 00:28, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Aw...Too bad.-- Ninja Sheik  00:30, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I believe we already saw the gourd, or the pot, and maybe the rope. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 00:43, February 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see the rope and the gourd, but wheres the pot?Scott sswag (talk) 21:04, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Considering new chapter
the timeline seems a bit off, if they tried to kill the 2nd kages from the leaf and cloud, would they have still been in the group that later killed the 2nd hokage? I mean, I think there was an assumption made based on the name of the group and the name of the brothers that they were in the group at the time and "played a part" in killing the 2nd, and someone just jumped the gun. But if they tried to take over and kill the kages, I doubt the brothers would have been welcomed back afterward. So it seems like this page, their pages, etc. are a bit off. 173.26.55.148 (talk) 13:46, February 10, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * Using upper case letters is pointless, but I have to agree to your thoughts. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 14:06, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Or there is the possibility that the scene we saw with Hiruzen becoming Hokage was the same incident and in their attempted Coup they hunted him down and finished Tobirama off. Course that's just my speculation and since I don't know the raw you guys are probably right. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:12, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Point taken on the title, I'm just weird about making titles. But even if they were still alive at that time, I didn't agree with that translation really, that they were the ones who killed him. Even up higher, where they translate it, they say it's not 100% sure. The way it described it, they ambushed both the 2nds, where in the death of the 2nd he went off to face them. This would be a lot easier to figure out if the timeline was a bit more established, since it seems they were fighting the cloud in the 1st war where he died, and was almost killed when they signed an alliance. Except he wouldn't have been kage before the war, and wouldn't have been alive at the end of the war. at least I think the 1st died in this war, it says so on the page about the 1st war, but that may be the assumption that's wrong and the description on the page of the cloud villiage may be right... my point really being, depending on what page you're looking at it says something different: some pages say they killed him, others say they didn't; some say the 1st died in the 1st war, others say he was dead when it started. 173.26.55.148 (talk) 01:15, February 11, 2011 (UTC)miah


 * The fan books establish that the First and Second died in the First War. Because 526 could be read as G&K as being responsible for the Second's death, related articles were edited to accept that last week. Now that 527 has muddied things, some of those same articles need to be edited again. Some already have been, but if you see something that outright says G&K killed Tobirama please don't hesitate to change it. ~SnapperTo 03:37, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

I don't own any of the fan books, which is why I tend to hesitate to change something myself, typically fuzzy issues come down to what it says in the books, like the 1st dying: From what you said it clears that up in the fan book, which means at some point they were at war and then formed an alliance with the cloud? ... This whole chapter seems to muddy everything up, like the brothers spending 2 weeks in the 9-tails belly? But the 9-tails was sealed inside the 1sts wife that whole time period, right? So were they stuck in his belly, sealed inside of her? WTF... I've a headache. 173.26.55.148 (talk) 04:49, February 11, 2011 (UTC)miah.


 * Hopefully we'll learn more in future chapters. I find it pointless to keep asking questions that no one knows the answers to. ~ Fmakck → Talk → Contributions 04:54, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because of the confusion of the latest chapters, I decided to look into the time line again. The First Databook actually states that SWW(I) didn't start until after the Second Hokage founded the Academy. —ShounenSuki (talk 09:51, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

What confuses me is, if the first Hokage married the first (true) jinchuriki for the Ninetails, whom is sealed into the First Hokage's wife... I mean... how? Where they already empowered by the Ninetails' chakra by the time they first tried to assassinate the Second Hokage? Did the First Hokage marry his wife after giving up the Hokage title to his brother? Did the ninetails get sealed into his wife after they were married? Bloodtom1
 * It is very likely that the First Hokage and Mito were already married when she sealed the Nine-Tails into herself and, in fact, before he became hokage in the first place. It was never said the First Hokage married Mito because she was a jinchūriki.
 * We also know that the First Hokage died before the Second became hokage. The time line probably went something like this:
 * Kumogakure tries to capture the Nine-Tails.
 * The Kingin Brothers are eaten.
 * Madara obtains the Nine-Tails.
 * The Battle at the Valley of the End.
 * Mito seals the Nine-Tails in herself.
 * The First Hokage dies.
 * Tobirama becomes the Second Hokage.
 * The First Shinobi World War breaks out.
 * Konoha and Kumo sign an alliance.
 * The Kingin Brothers attempt a coup
 * The Second Hokage and his subordinates manage to evade the Kingin Brothers.
 * The Kinkaku Force follows the Second Hokage and his subordinates, forcing the Second to sacrifice his life.
 * Hiruzen becomes the Third Hokage.
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 11:28, February 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nice timeline! There's a few events that might be switched around, the First war might've started sooner (before Hashirama's death) or later (after the alliance/coup), I don't know if we have enough info to pin it down, but in respect to the brothers and 9-tails I think it nailed everything. ZeroSD (talk) 12:07, February 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * The first databook states that SWWI started after the Second Hokage founded the Academy, which he did when he was hokage, which he became after the First Hokage had died. So that part is pretty clear and set. As for it starting after the coup, that seems very unlikely. We know the Second Hokage died during SWWI and the coup was most likely what led to his death. Besides, no matter how the chain of events went exactly, the Second Hokage was killed by Kumogakure during SWWI, meaning that, if it wasn't the Kingin Brothers' coup attempt that led to his death, it was simple war with Kumogakure. If the war started after the coup attempt, it makes no sense for Kumo and Konoha to be enemies during it. They should have been allies. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:37, February 24, 2011 (UTC)

Triva?
Don't know if it's worth mentioning, but the name may be a reference to the gold general and silver general shogi pieces. Arrancar79 (talk) 01:32, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Given their weapons, I highly doubt it. From personal experience they don't tend to take other references as tey also share names with temples in Japan. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 01:43, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * The shōgi pieces are called and  and the Kyōto temples are called the  and the . I don't see any reason to assume the Kingin brothers were in any way based on these things, other than that they also happen to include gold and silver in their names. really, gold and silver pairings aren't that uncommon. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:56, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Well after the latest chapter it looks like the shogi theme was a bit on his mind. Arrancar79 (talk) 02:46, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it would be okay to mention the Shogi pieces as triva.--Deva 27 23:45, March 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely, now that there's an actual connection. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:33, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Connection to Kinkaku Force
As much as I want to believe there's some connection between the Gold and Silver Brothers and the Kinkaku Force, there doesn't seem to be anything suggesting that they were actually involved in the Second Hokage's death. It was said they stabbed him in the back and left him on the brink of death, but is this incident related to his death fighting against the Kinkaku Force? Initially, I was left with the impression that the Kinkaku Force was meant to be the Gold and Silver Brothers, but once I realized that wasn't possible, things started to get muddy to me. Is there, in fact, a confirmed connection between the Kinkaku Force and the Gold and Silver Brothers, and was actually there more than one incident involving the brothers fighting the Second Hokage? Teamrocketspy621 (talk) 21:25, February 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can understand your confusion but the brothers actually said they killed Tobirama and we were told that he sacrificed himself to allow his team to escape alive after he realized they were being tracked by the Kinkaku Force. For now we're treating the two incidents


 * 1. when they attacked both the Second Hokage and Raikage and
 * 2.when the Kinkaku Force killed him as mutually exclusive events until/ unless the dots are connected. --Cerez (talk) 21:41, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

their whisker markings ...
Isn't it worthy to mention that they had them before being swallowed by Kurama?--Elveonora (talk) 21:50, July 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Kinkaku and Ginkaku --Speysider Talk Page 21:54, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks--Elveonora (talk) 22:03, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

sorry but i'm new here...but is it ok to put a trivia about the brothers already having black eyes(i thnk it's their iris) before they were swallowed by kurama..meaning that was before they were summoned by edo tensei27.110.188.73 (talk) 06:21, July 7, 2012 (UTC)Skeyeticz

Where is Cerez? :P I think it's enough to be put into anime-manga differences-animation errors and changes--Elveonora (talk) 13:14, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

sorry...i'm skeyeticz but i changed my name when i learned how to signup(kinda dum eh?)..but i agree...i thnink that would be better...Saeyatachi (talk) 07:42, July 8, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi

Trivia or Anime issue?
Have you guys noticed how the Kinkaku and Ginkaku's appearance in the anime is slightly different in the manga? The main thing is the their skin-tone. On the cover of Volume 56, it shows their skin looking almost like a pale, almost, slate-blue or just slate color. And I think you have already noticed that their missing their white rectangular mark. Should I post it in the trivia right now or make a new section on their article, talking about the difference between their anime and manga appearance? Should I wait for approval or just do right it now? Sorry, I'm still here.--Black Ronin8 (talk) 18:42, July 9, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8

i agree....we should post differences...but i think it would be more appropriate if it would be put on the anime manga difference, just like what ive said in the previous topic..Saeyatachi (talk) 02:46, July 10, 2012 (UTC)Skeyeticz
 * We can't really account for how animators actually draw the characters since when they debuted they looked a lot different since subsequent episodes. The skin tone is because of Edo Tensei but apparently the animators have forgotten this and the plating is mentioned.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:37, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

yeah but how about them having black screla before they were revived?--Saeyatachi (talk) 03:27, July 12, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi

its simply an animation error, it wouldnt be the first.71.71.58.236 (talk) 03:53, July 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

exactly.that's why it deserve to be put in the anime manga difference.example of this is kitsuchi, even in just a short time when he debuted, it is put that his apperance is not correct,even if it's corrected in the next episodes, that's why i'm saying it deserve it's place--Saeyatachi (talk) 04:44, July 12, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi


 * @Cerez365: Their unusual skin tone isn't due to Edo Tensei. As far as the covers for Volume 55 and 58 are concerned, those reincarnated should possess their normal complexion. So even if you could rationalise why their skin is grey, the brothers certainly should be a lot paler than they actually are.
 * @Saeyatachi: Them having black sclera isn't a mistake, at least not on the anime's part. Throughout chapter 527, including the flashbacks, the brothers have noticeably darkened sclera and they aren't even the first from Kumogakure to do so during life. Blackstar1 (talk) 07:39, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh okay. Well I'll readd the skin bit then.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:20, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

On the dark sclera, they could naturally have that too. Hanzō and the Third Raikage had naturally dark sclera while alive. We don't know if that's true for the brothers, is there any panel in which they're shown while alive? Maybe the flashback that old Kumogakure ninja had? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, July 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * yeah i know there's a possibility that they really have black sclera before being resurrected... cause when they were shown in a pannel where A is saying that they survive in the kurama's gut by eating his flesh, they're shown to have glowing eyes(i think) but not black sclera exactly.but can't we atleast put "in the anime they are shown to have black sclera when alive" or something like that?but that is if you all agree?Saeyatachi (talk) 01:52, July 13, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi

umm... if Kakuzu can have red sclera and green irises, i see no reason Ginkaku and Kinkaku cant have black sclera (and from the cover of volume 56, brownish irises).71.71.58.236 (talk) 01:55, July 13, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * Chapter 527, page 5 - centre panel: While not that clear in the original scan, that scene is actually supposed to be a flashback, as seen by the fact that the Kōkinjō is still around Ginkaku's shoulder. The panel is corrected in the tankōbon release, so that it is darkened like the others, but the brothers still have black sclera. Blackstar1 (talk) 07:43, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

oh isee...so that was supposed to be a flashback...okay then..thanks alot==Saeyatachi (talk) 08:30, July 13, 2012 (UTC)Saeyatachi

Thanks for keeping my adding with the skin bit. I'm also glad to see that I sparked a little discussion. But I also have another question that I just thought about. Again, referring on page 5, when it showed them alive, that was after they were spat out by Kurama, right? Yet in episode 269 when it showed the flashback of them alive before they leaped into Kurama's mouth they still had horns,whisker markings, and the dark tips in their hair. In Chapter 529, on page 5 (http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v56/c529/4.html), you can barely see their horns and their hair does not have the dark tips at the end, which means that their current appearance, as far as the horns, whisker markings, and dark hair tips go, was the result from being inside Kurama's stomach and eating the stomach meat, thereby infusing not only infusing them with the ninetails chakra, but also giving them a slight change in appearance. Should I also put alittle bit of this on to the article?--Black Ronin8 (talk) 15:07, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8
 * No. The brothers had horns and dark-tipped hair prior to being swallowed by Kurama. When they're facing off with the fox in chapter 527 page 5, the tankōbon version of the manga image shows it best. The image you're looking at is one of them post escaping the fox's stomach and the other kinda dark. Also, horns have nothing to do with Kurama, he has none and no other jinchūriki of his (mainly Naruto) has exhibited them. '~' --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:18, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, so they were born with horns? That's odd. Although again with the dark tips, post after escaping Kurama's stomach, they weren't there or was that a drawing mistake?--Black Ronin8 (talk) 16:27, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8
 * I don't know whether or not they were born with horns, though I doubt that. It could very well be that they knew of their ancestry and modelled horns after the Sage of the Six Paths but made them look "more evil". I thought of this a while ago, but it could be any reason really.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:31, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, so you thought about it too? Cool. Although the Sage of the Six Paths didn't have horns, it was just how his hairstyle looked like. It was shown in the flashback when all the tailed beasts were kids. I forgot the chapter.--Black Ronin8 (talk) 18:07, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8
 * I know he doesn't have horns. I meant how his hair was styled "reminiscent" of horns.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:40, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Ohhhh.--107.193.212.153 (talk) 20:32, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8 ^^ still me but i was unknowingly logged off.--Black Ronin8 (talk) 20:34, July 17, 2012 (UTC)Black Ronin8

Trivia
Should it be noted that the gold and silver brothers had their treasurer tools before being swallowed by the nine tails.It should be in the trivia because the brothers would never have the chakra for this whitout the nine tails chakra,but they had it even before being swallowed.--Qxv (talk) 03:18, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's mentioned in their articles. It was never said that people couldn't wield the tools just that you needed the chakra reserves to back it up.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:44, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Should it be mentioned that according to the 4th Raikage the brothers may be distantly related to the Sage of the Six Paths? 24.147.146.218 (talk) Anonymous User
 * It already is, in the appearance section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:42, June 13, 2013 (UTC)

This is illogical
How can they be 44 and born on march 7 (Kinkaku) and april 9 (Ginkaku)? It's illogical --KILLERBEE479 (talk) 16:07, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * How? • Seelentau 愛 議 16:09, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Biggest delay between birth of twins was 80 days ./ Rage gtx (talk) 16:16, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know. So? • Seelentau 愛 議 16:18, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * So this is not illogical ;) ./ Rage gtx (talk) 16:19, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * One of the parents is different, mystery solved.--Elve Talk Page 16:22, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't get it... like, I literally don't understand the problem here. Not with the article and their ages, because I know my stuff. What I don't understand is, why don't people bother to read the article before they go complaining? It's seriously not that hard. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:34, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, so people were thinking they're twins? Oooooh, that explains everything. Well, they are no twins, hence the different birthdays. Problem solved? :) • Seelentau 愛 議 02:46, November 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's just not that common for a woman to be pregnant with twins and give birth to one and to the other a month later.--Elve Talk Page 12:45, November 20, 2014 (UTC)