Talk:Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki

Clothes & Deva path
wat do mean"a color,like hashimaru"is he wearing clothes? by the way,has anyone noticed how deva path's starting to look like the sage,minus the sword,horns,& i guess ring,as you say there is...i didnt see one but maybe i havnt looked close enough....anywayz,why hav i been seeing a pic of deva path standing with some guy in a green jacket,purple helmet,& sword(like the sage)in fanmade stuff lately...are they relatd or something & i skiped something,im confused...65.189.150.66 (talk) 18:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)anyonymus65.189.150.66 (talk) 18:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Stronger than Pain
I read the chapter where he says "The Sage of the 6 paths created a moon, doing this is nothing" and I've got to say that I don't think he was saying that the original user of the Rinnegan was strong, I think he was just placating Konan. Until it can be proved that was what he meant or direct evidence is given, maybe we should edit that part?24.80.233.100 (talk) 00:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Its quite obvious that the Sage of the six paths was MUCH stronger then Pain, Pain admitted inferiority.HUNTER* (talk) 01:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

more sage talk
well,i've figured out at least who that dude in the purple helmet & green jacet atleast(hanzo),& after a recent discovery in chapter 446,nagato may b te sage reincarnated...if u think bout it,every time they speak of him,he's in a shadow,which means(like everyone else,like itachi,b4 he revealed himself)he hasnt appeared yet,but will...& maybe,through pain...65.189.150.66 (talk) 10:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)anyonomus65.189.150.66 (talk) 10:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it Rokudou sennin not Rikudou
Isn't it Rokudou sennin not Rikudou. roku means six, I guess it is rikudou. but every dictionary i put the kanji in, it reads rokudou -_-
 * You're both right and wrong. "Roku" is the usual way of saying "six" in Japanese. "Riku" is an alternate pronunciation that is practically never used in modern Japanese. It is classical, archaic, and nowadays only found in certain phrases and words with a classical feel to them (e.g., , and ).
 * Rikudō is also one of these phrases. It is possible to pronounce it as Rokudō, but as a term of high religious importance, the classical Rikudō is preferred.
 * Of course, none of this really matters here. The answer to why it's Rikudō Sennin and not Rokudō Sennin is simply because Kishimoto-sensei decided to use Rikudō. --ShounenSuki (talk 20:32, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up beacuse I was going to download a tanboukon just to check.

New information
I figured this would be the best place to discuss the new information revealed in chapter 462...

I'd like to make a few things clear: That should clear up some things. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:49, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * The two brothers that inherited the power and will of the Shinobi Sect are not specifically said to be the Sage's sons;
 * The eyes of the older brother don't seem to be rippled like the Rinnegan, but they appear to have a spiral pattern;
 * The older brother was blessed at birth with the power of the Sage's chakra and his spiritual energy;
 * The younger brother was blessed at birth with the Sage's willpower and physical energy;
 * The older brother was not an Uchiha, nor was the younger brother a Senju. It was their descendants who were called thus.


 * Throwing this out there, I believe the older son's eyes was indeed the Rinnegan. It's just a small picture and trying to get those ripple patterns correctly doesn't seem possible.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:53, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's practically the same size as the picture of the Sage above it and there the ripple pattern is clear as day. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:59, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Practically the same size and is the same size are completely different in the art world. /shrug just look at the picture of the Sage, his eyes were pronounced, like he was glaring at something. The picture of the older one (or was it the younger) was more a generic profile picture. The eyes weren't ment to be the center point of the image like it was with the Sage.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:47, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it wasn't really my point to claim he had an entirely new dōjutsu or something. I just wanted to show there's enough uncertainty about him having the Rinnegan. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:28, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Uchiha ancestor.jpg|thumb|right|upright]]It doesn't look like either the Sharingan or the Rinnegan if u ask me...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 11:25, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

That image is a lot clearer than any I've seen before. It's obvious now that he didn't have the Rinnegan's ripple pattern, but swirls. --ShounenSuki (talk 16:29, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * It is said in page 12 of chapter 462 that the older one inherited his eyes. It is safe to assume that he indeed had the Rinnegan. The reason of it developing into the uchihas' sharingan (probably after the byakugan) is because as Madara states: their blood thinned over the years. - MadaraU (talk) 17:35, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * And the manga image is false?..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 17:46, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, "eyes" in that sentence isn't used literally, just like the "body" that the younger brother inherited. Madara means that the older brother was blessed with the power of the Sage's chakra and his spiritual energy. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:15, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm actually going to side with ShounenSuki on this one. The eyes are definitely spiral-patterned; possibly a midway between the Rinnegan and the Sharingan (and Byakugan???). btw, why havent we made a page for these two anyways?--NurXang (talk) 18:54, September 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * There are pages for those 2..this & this...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 19:29, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Somebody added the Uchiha and Senju symbols to the pages of the older and younger brother, respectively. I was wondering if this was such a good idea, seeing that they weren't of those clans themselves. --ShounenSuki (talk 19:28, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like to add that, the older brother could be conneted to Uzu no kuni seeing as the older brothers eyes are literally an Uzu (uzu = swirl). I don't find it far fitched that a man would name a contry after the shape of his eyes. But it's still only speculation.
 * Oy oy what is this Uzu no Kuni? The Whirpool Country (Kushina's Country)? Ahahah as I pressed edit it came to me that it might be that one, but I want to be sure :) Yeah definitely it's that one... although I don't know if it has an article. Oh and btw, do something about searching for the Sage's page with Rikudo, to go to it. Whenever I wanna read Rikudo's page and search for Rikudo I get nothing:)) I have to always search with Sage of the Six Paths :-<. It's like searching for Hokage with Fire Shadow (bleah:P ) - MadaraU (talk) 22:06, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

will this article get updated soon?86.169.247.179 (talk) 21:24, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * But it is updated :) - MadaraU (talk) 18:18, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely everything Madara says should be taken with a giant grain of salt. While he is never completely lies his tails are always twisted to give him some level of benefit. I believe that it should be sited that that info given by Madara isn't necessarily correct.--Cueil-sama (talk) 17:40, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Why should he lie? He has no reason whatsoever to. Also, the only proven time that he has lied so far is about the Nine-Tais. -Enoki911 (talk) 20:51, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

question
did the sage aquired the rinnegan before or after sealing the jubi inside himself? did he born with it? because it would make sense if the sealed beast gave him the doujutsu since the beast have this eye maybe the rinnegan was the power of the beast that his two sons inherited. it's never said that the son of a jinchuuriki do not inherit part of the powers of his parents. it may be it i'll wait until confirmation 189.27.168.43 (talk) 19:12, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

This is a good question and also leads up to if the containers children would have traits passed down to them that were not necessarily natural to the parent. Something like Naruto's healing or Garaa's unnatural control of sand even after the demon was pulled out.--Cueil-sama (talk) 17:42, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

This imo is the key to many occurences in the manga and makes everything so interconnected that we're bound to see it being touched upon in the future. Naruto, Gaara, Killer bee and all the other jinchuurikis don't just have tails, they have physical resemblenace to their hosts. (Naruto-whiskers, Gaara-eyes, and very possibly Sage-Rinnegan). It's possible the Rinnegan, powerfull as it might be, is just the lesser manifestation of it's source. That would explain quite alot-Why Rinnegan users can use all forms of chakra and jutsu (The Ten Tails, who contains the chakra of all nine beasts-who themselves contain atleast some and possibly all nature elements, would have the perfect chakra). It would explain why Pain had such enourmus amounts of chakra-his Rinnegan doesn't just let him access increadible techniques, it also gives him part of the traits of all jinchuurikis-super high chakra capcacity. Last but definately not least it would shed light on why the Sharingan can tame the kyuubi-it and the kyuubi both came from the same source-the sealing jutsu which made the sage a Jinchuuriki. --Amirw (talk) 21:03, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing was ever said about him getting the Rinnegan because of the sealing of the Ten Tails. Unless they say something about it, the least speculative thing is to assume he had it before having the Ten Tails sealed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:27, March 27, 2010 (UTC)

you annoy me. you say that sage got his eyes and powerful chakra via sealing juubi inside of himself, then you say that it's the same thing for other people who have the rennigan i.e. pain, but did pain have juubi or any of the tailed beasts sealed in him for that matter? no! So what your basically sayin' is that a person w/ rennigan has rennigan cause of powerful chakra, but its' the powerful chakra that the rennigan gives you, that there is a dad gum paradox. obviously sage had his rennigan before he sealed the tailed beast.

What did you smoke? I never said RS got his eyes or power because he sealed the Ten Tails into himself. What I say is that RS was already powerful and had Rinnegan before he sealed the Ten Tails in himself, until said otherwise in the manga. I never said a word about what made Pain have the Rinnegan. I also never said a word about chakra. Also, sign you posts. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:04, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Dude, I was quoting Armirw, not you, I would've moved your section out of the way to clarify, but that seemed kinda rude P.S. sorry about the not signing thing b ut I hadn't thought of a good enough name... yet -deadpool

Jutsu
it was aid in the manga that the sage of 6 paths was the first ninja ever and has brought all the jutsu that are in the world today.wouldnt that mean he nows every single jutsu from the show today. if it is true than sooldnt we put all under his jutsu box--Bleach boy (talk) 22:53, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * He can't know jutsu created after he died (ex: Rasengan and Chidori). If a character is no directly indicated to be able to use a jutsu, they are not listed as a user. ~SnapperTo 05:20, October 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think that they meant that he was the first person to use what qualifies as ninjutsu, not that he used every ninjutsu. I don't know Japanese, though, so I'm not certain. -Enoki911 (talk) 20:53, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

the sage invented ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu were pre-existent, he was the first one to mix chakra (blue) and hand signs (yellow) to create ninjutsu (green)(taijutsu and genjutsu don't use hand signs, just chakra) he also created elemental chakra, as genjutsu and taijutsu only use the basic and non-elemental yin and yang chakra

No they weren't. The Sage first discovered the secrets of chakra, and they developed Ninshū, which was eventually weaponized into ninjutsu. Genjutsu also requires chakra, so no genjutsu prior to the sage. Genjutsu also uses chakra and handseals. Taijutsu rarely uses chakra. Chakra obviously existed before, people just didn't know how to use it. Why are you replying to year old topics? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

sorry, butI'm way to lazy to check the dates. -deadpool

Madara & Hashirama
Just a really really thrown out there idea. Could the sage be madaras and hashiramas great grandfatheror something? and is that why those two were so strong?
 * You are thinking too small. The Sage is more like their great×80-grandfather.
 * Also, sign your posts next time. --ShounenSuki (talk 22:01, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Sage? of Six Paths
Since he's called the SAGE of six paths, could he use perfect sage mode? Or even imperfect sage mode? DemonFoxsCloak (talk) 08:46, December 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * Different sage i presume. There is no evidence that he was a toad sage--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:32, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

But even if he isn't a toad sage, that might imply that other summoning animals have sage mastery as well. DemonFoxsCloak (talk) 17:32, December 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't imply anything. We know he's a sage, and the founder of ninjutsu who sealed the Ten-Tails into is body. Thats about it.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 18:24, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

What I believe is the case, he was the creator of all forms of jutsu, which leads me to believe it includes Senjutsu. The reason why Nagato was in such horrible condition may be because he was meant to learn Senjutsu from Jiraiya, and use Nature Chakra, as a source of power for his Rinnengan-based techniques. Since he had no access to nature's lifeforce, he used his own, leading Nagato to be incomplete so to speak.


 * I don't know, Fukasaku was very clear that what he was teaching wasn't ninjutsu, but senjutsu. I think that in this case, the Sage is merely a title, not his actual classification. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:08, April 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The sage was also know for discovering the secrets of chakra. Doesn't state what type of chakra or if he only discovered one type. Wishful thinking maybe. ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 21:33, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't refer to sage mode or at least i am pretty sure it doesn't. A sage is just a person who practices ideas of spiritual and philosophical topics and also wisdom. BUT on the contrary the sage of the the six paths created all jutsus known so it's a possibility that he created sage mode and might have mastered it. Like Fukasaku said Sage Mode requires time, concentration and guts, which are some characteristics of a sage. They are well concentrated.

God of Shinobi?
when was he ever called the god of shinobi? Aexon (talk) 00:16, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

when sealed the monster ten tailed in his body and that all people living in his time save them by the sage and was worshipped by god through that...User:jayjams]jayjams ([[user talk jayjams}talk]0]0

The Shinobi no Kami was the Third Hokage, The Sage of The Six Paths was just called that.TheAncientOne (talk) 03:07, July 27, 2010 (UTC) The Ancient One.

Six Paths of Pain
If his name is "Sage of the Six Paths", doesn't that imply that he could use Six Paths of Pain?--98.211.195.17 (talk) 14:17, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

You ppl need to listen to the 2-3 episode long back stories! The Rinnegan is called the Rinnegan of Six Paths, so it just meens he posesses the legandary Rinnegan--Silverblade1 (talk) 21:38, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Uchiha and Senju Clan ansetor
I thought they were his sons. What happen? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:02, April 21, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Nine Tails recognizing sage technique
The nine tails was "born" after/during the death of the sage of six paths, yet has memories of his jutsu, so either it has memories from when it was part of the ten tailed beast or it learned it later. - S im A nt 23:45, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Another part of this I noticed, shouldn't that seal go under the sage's jutsu box? DemonFoxsCloak (talk) 20:15, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

If the first post is true, than is there a possibility that some of that knowledge is in each of the tailed beasts and that some of the knowledge rubbed off in the subconscience of their respective hosts?

Nothing suggests hosts and beast can see the memories of one another. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well with the 8 tails, he can talk to his host. so it may be that they can. TheAncientOne - Talk

The doppelgangers show that information can be shared with split up beings. Is there anything similiar in Japanese mythology (someone being split into two bodies or whatever)? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:17, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Still there's nothing to assume that they do have shared consciousnesses at all. They aren't clones after all just completely separate entities of the same being--Cerez365 (talk) 10:05, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

is it possible that in his appeareances so far we saw the sage in his controlled jinchuriki form like the one naruto just learned ?
 * It is possible since the Nine Tails made referrence to it but it wa just a silhouette and we can't be sure without speculating --Cerez365 (talk) 10:05, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities
Just to clarify...Rikudo Sennin can use all of the jutsu used by the Six Paths of Pain, right? 98.200.125.177 (talk) 16:39, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yin/Yang legacy
In Chapter 510, Madara explains to Konan that the manipulation of the Yin and the Yang type of chakra, as the former is based on the spiritual energy and the second is based on the physical energy. The Sage of six paths was able to use both of these manipulations, and Madara say that anyone has this ability can be called Rikudou. For this reason he proclaims himself "second Rikudou" (his sentence "Two of the six paths are now one being!" is a mistranlation) because he has the power of sharingan and the Mokuton of Hashirama Senju: according to Konan these two powers are the power of the Six Path of Pain and, as Madara says, originally Senjuu and Uchiha (and their powers) was one thing because Rikudou was the ancestor of both clan.

So, in my opinion, seems to be implied that the sharingan of the Uchiha is related to the Yin manipulation (see the affinity to the use of ninjutsu through the sharingan), and the power of Senjuu, in particular of the Mokuton (brings life through the luxuriant growth), is related to the Yang manipulation. Not only that, but so the descendants of the eldest son of Rikudou, from where the Uchiha would be born, were skilled to the manipulation of Yin (Rikudou passed to his oldest son his spirtual strength), while the descendants of the youngest son of Rikudou, which would have been born from the Senju and the Uzumaki collaterally, were skilled in the manipulation of the Yang (Rikudou passed to his youngest son his physical strength). Abilities that were handed down by their descendants up to the Uchiha and the Senju (and maybe to the Uzumaki clan). I think that this one should be added to the articles of Rikudou, Uchiha and Senju, because I think that the manga say this even if not explicitly. Any thoughts?--JK88 (talk) 14:00, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Jinchuriki
Why is it that AS FAR AS I REMEMBER READING ON THIS WIKIA, Kushina was the only Jinchūriki said to survive the extraction of a Tailed beast. Didn't the Sage of Six Paths survive after extracting the Ten-Tailed Beast? How else could he use Izanagi to seperate the Ten Tails into the 9 tailed beasts and then use Chibaku Tensei to seal the Ten Tails in the Chibaku Tensei now known as the moon? REMEMBER I SAID AS FAR AS I REMEMBER READING THIS WIKIA 1david12 . (talk) 20:00, September 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically speaking, the Sage isn't a true jinchūriki, as those are the hosts of the Tailed Beasts and the Ten-Tails isn't a real tailed beast ^^ The situation is a bit complicated and ambiguous. —ShounenSuki (talk 20:26, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

True, I agree, then why does it say the "first jinchuriki"? Do you think it should be changed? 1david12 . (talk 15:36, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

I wanted to add 2 important things to this:
1. and I know this was mentioned above, but if he had the rinnengan than he had all the powers of the rinnengan, which would mean he had the 6 powers that nagato had. I mean the fact that madara has all of them just by getting one rinnengan eye, I think it's safe to say that the sage having 2 rinnengan eyes, that the powers that come with those eyes would be his as well. If you can assume that madara has all six when he's just hinted at having one, I don't see how you can be so hesitant with the sage.

2. And this is a bit more tricky, but I think it's safe to say at this point that the image most characters have of the sage as just having the rinnengan is wrong, and that madara is right at what he is showing us. Look at the image of the ten tails, with the mixed rinnengan/sharingan eye (and I don't think it's his eye, since every time a creature has been controlled by the sharingan their eye has become the sharingan). And then look at his new mask. When you consider madara said izanagi was a tech that REQUIRED the sharingan, I think they are hinting that this is what his eyes really looked like.

I'm not saying that it needs to be completely changed, but at least a brief mention that it's been suggested would be better than nothing. Incidentally, it also suggests that he had the wood element powers as well, since this was the second requirement of izanagi-- hashirama's powers. 173.26.55.253 (talk) 19:41, November 12, 2010 (UTC)miah


 * 1. We don't add techniques until they are seen, or mentioned to be useable. Madara mentioned the "Human Path" could be used to read Yamato's mind. The only techniques on the Sage's page are the ones mentioned in the manga to be used by him.
 * 2. That's a little speculative, and the manga only mentioned him having the Rinnegan. We don't really know what else he had.
 * Also, "Hashirama's power" might not necessarily be Wood Release, although it is likely. These things that you mentioned have been suggested by others before, it's just that it hasn't been confirmed, and we can only wait until Kishimoto says these things are true himself. --GoDai (talk) 19:49, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

I was confusing the elemental use that was listed as presumed with the jutsu listed. Though, and I know this isn't a reason for changing it, but I don't think that the other characters images of him are necessarily accurate. It does seem like in the end this is where he's going with it: that the sage had a combination eye and the wood element use.

curious
if the younger brother decends as senju and inherited sage power shouldnt senju clan have some sage power
 * Sage power? you mean as in Senjutsu? Because it has never been said that the younger son or even the Sage himself had this power. —ShounenSuki (talk 04:51, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Pardon my interruption
"The necklace that the Sage wore might be a reference to the Yasakani Jewel; a legendary magatama necklace that is part of the Japanese Imperial Regalia, together with the Kusanagi Sword and the Yata Mirror. The Yasakani Jewel is the only one of these treasures yet to make an official appearance in the series. "

The Senju Clan, as the benevolence icon of the Yasakani Jewel supported as the true inheritor of the Sage of the Six Paths, probably already made the first stage appearance of the magatama in the series. Anybody remember Uzumaki Naruto's necklace...? Wouldn't that technically be the treasure of benevolence, both in memorial and the inheritance of the Senju?

Sorry to bother you, but I'm honestly curious.