Talk:Mangekyō Sharingan/Archive 3

Madara's MS
It looks like a more triangle like shape rather than a circular shape on episode 136. And i why can't a sharingan with 2 tomeos become a MS. Where's the proof that it can't skip the third tomeo. Instead of having these pictures of eyes wouldn't having it in a head be better
 * That's called bad animation. The best instance in which we see Madara's MS is the episode where we got the image currently used in his article was taken from. It makes no sense for a two tomee Sharigan to become a MS. Considering how MS is acquired, is highly likely that by the time someone gets a MS, the Sharingan would already have matured. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:36, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then change it to "to obtain the MS the user must feel the emotion of losing someone very dear to them but also must have 3 tomeos"
 * Looks very odd to list it like that. I don't think it's necessary. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:35, July 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. I don't think that's necessary. --Ilnarutoanime 12:02, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

One thing doesn't make sense, Sasuke saw his entire clan killed and experienced the pain of having his clan killed, but he didn't unlock his Mangekyou Sharingan until Itachi, the person he hated the most, was killed. Did the guy who created Naruto just not think of the Mangekyou Sharingan at that time or did Sasuke not experience enough pain to awaken his Mangekyou Sharingan until itachi died? Also, in the episode that first showed the Mangekyou Sharingan, Itachi said that including him, only two other uchiha clan members could use a mangekyou sharingan, but in the latest issue, it shows that Shisui had a Mangekyou Sharingan.


 * The Mangekyō Sharingan doesn't activate until you see the person that is most important to you die. In Sasuke's case, even at the time of the massacre, this person was Itachi.
 * As for your second question, Itachi actually said that, if Sasuke were to activate his Mangekyō Sharingan, there would be three people alive with the Mangekyō: Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:41, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

I thought it activates when the user kills the person most important to them,not just see them die.Plus,i dont think the event that awakens the sharigan can be the same one that awakens the mangekyo. 67.66.63.251 (talk) 09:19, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * No one said that the same event that awakens the Sharingan also awakes the Mangekyō. Please read the article before asking such things, it's there to be read. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:32, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Danzo
Not sure if its already been brought up, but can Danzo be considered a user...yes he might have taken Shisui's eye while he had the Mangekyo, but he's shown no signs of being able to activate it. ..AlienGamer (Userpage ⁝ Talk) 02:48, August 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Scratch that actually. ..AlienGamer (Userpage ⁝ Talk) 02:50, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

i have to agree with your point. since he have shisui's eye, which is MS, he does have MS, but the thing is is that the eye cannot use the jutsu because it needed to recharge. unfortunantly, we cannot be for certain about this.

Obito
Shouldnt Kakashi's sharingan be Obito's?And why isn't it listed as enternal?(i have a guess,just want to know the official reason) 67.66.63.251 (talk) 09:21, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it's Kakashi's and not eternal? In order to get the "eternal mangekyō sharingan" you need another pair of sharingans to integrate into your own. Please to go and read the articles that people took time and effort to write and bring to near perfection.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:36, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Kakashi's sharigan was Obito's, but i dont see where your going with this. He is "credited" for the use of his sharigan, but he never used a Mangekyõ. And its not ethernal as Cerez said, cause for that you'll need a second pair of sharigan. And even tough we are not completely sure about the specifics, it has also been indicated that that other pair should be from a sibling. Corect me if im wrong, since i can see someone wrote "The tighter the blood ties are between the "donor" and the receiver, the better it is for compatibility, siblings for example" but i never remember reading this --Cosmikaze (talk) 13:45, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Izuna's Mangekyõ
"Izuna's look more like a detailed form of the basic three-tomoe Sharingan". I have never been able to see how that is a detailed version of the bacis sharigan. I think Kakashis look a lot more that the normal one then. Its just a minor thing and if people want it that way im okay with it, just wanted to hear what others had to say. --Cosmikaze (talk) 13:24, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose the word "detailed" is used out of context there.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:33, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Mangekyō Sharingan
itachi said the only way to awaken the Mangekyō Sharingan is to kill someone close to you.then how did itachi awaken his own when he did not kill shisui? --
 * The way to gain the Mangekyō Sharingan is to have the person you're closest to die e.g. your best friend or parents etc. In order to facilitate this since they simply put weren't willing to wait until the person died, they would kill them themselves, the trauma from which awakens the Mangekyō Sharingan. You don't have to necessarily kill them yourselves as in Itachi's case seeing Shisui die and aiding him in the process somewhat was enough to awaken his.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 04:05, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Drawbacks
Shouldn't we add the topic drawbacks to the article like detoriation of eyesight...akz! (talk) 05:10, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I meant should we add it as a separate sub-topic in this article? akz! (talk) 12:00, August 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Too little information to make into a section of its own. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:12, August 13, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia
I've noticed that this page doesn't contain trivia fact about MS's abilities' names. All of the MS techniques are all related to Shinto mythology. Why hasn't anyone posted that??.--118.137.138.97 (talk) 14:01, August 17, 2011 (UTC)

Sasuke's MS
As stated by Shee in episode 202, Sasuke has in his left eye the power of Amaterasu and with his right eye he can manipulate chakra form of Amaterasu. But the manga doesn't say anything like this ^^^ And also I've never seen Sasuke using Tsukuyomi, only genjutsu. So, should it be changed?! akz! (talk) 11:08, August 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * C said it in chapter 464, page 7. He's used Tsukuyomi on B-413, page 8, Danzō-480, page 6 and possibly the Yotsuki Clan Member- 408, though it's nothing like Itachi's.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:46, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

yeah, it was definitely a genjutsu(413), but nowhere it's stated that it was Tsukuyomi. Same with Danzo's case. Madara stated that it was a weak genjutsu but not Tsukuyomi. I am also confused as C (in the anime) said that in his left eye the power of Amaterasu and with his right eye he can manipulate chakra form of Amaterasu. But in the manga(464), C says nothing about the power in Sasuke's right eye.... akz! (talk) 12:13, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as I know regular genjutsu has never been cast with the Mangekyō Sharingan. Danzō also told him that his Tsukuyomi was vastly inferior to Itachi's in chapter 478 page 3. It was also never said that C said it in the manga, it's just something that was observed and maybe incorporated into the anime at that point.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:15, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

I know that C never said that in manga. But I think regular genjutsu can be cast with Mangekyo. akz! (talk) 12:38, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * The only reason that we should list Sasuke as an user of Tsukuyomi is his use of Susanoo, since it requires the user to master both, Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. There was never a situation that clearly proved Sasuke's use of Tsukuyomi. Even Danzō didn't mention Tsukuyomi. He only said, Sasuke's Genjutsu is far below Itachi's Tsukuyomi (or so). Seelentau 愛議 15:38, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why would Danzō compare basic genjutsu to something like Tsukuyomi when naturally it would not be as powerful? Unless he wanted to berate Sasuke, at the same time however, Sasuke's ability with genjutsu has never been poor. To me, it all points to them talking about his use of Tsukuyomi.-Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:50, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I know. But still he never really mentioned it. What we believe or interpret in those sentences is something else. Seelentau 愛議 15:59, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think Danzo compared Sasuke's genjutsu with Itachi's Tsukuyomi as he found that both the brothers had same ability. akz! (talk) 16:22, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * It still would not make any sense to compare genjutsu of a lower class with Tsukuyomi since Sharingan wielders were capable of using genjutsu. Emphasis was also placed on his right eye in all the instances I noted, and like I said before, I can't remember base genjutsu being used with the Mangekyō Sharingan. It might not have been explicitly stated but implications of its use is evident.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:00, August 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * It would make perfect sense to compare genjutsu of a lower class with Tsukiyomi, the entire point was to emphasize that Sasuke's MS genjutsu is inferior. It really wasn't tsukiyomi, here are some crucial pieces of evidence:


 * 1. Chapter 142, page 15. Itachi uses Tsukiyomi against Kakashi for the first time. He tells Kakashi that a Sharingan can make some resistance against his Mangekyo Sharingan (implying that there is regular MS genjutsu), but he has a special technique called Tsukiyomi that only someone with Uchiha blood could endure. Danzo's ability to dispel Sasuke's genjutsu is consistent with this statement, and Kakashi's failure to resist tsukiyomi is also consistent with this statement.


 * 2. Chapter 415, page 9. Sasuke uses his amaterasu manipulation ability, looks to the right and says "is that the mangekyo's power?" The chapter is titled "a new power", and the only new thing Sasuke has done is amaterasu manipulation. Using amaterasu itself is old hat, and there was never any fanfare for the genjutsu.


 * 3. Chapter 417, page 9. Only after learning both amaterasu in his left eye and this new move in his right eye does Sasuke unlock a "new power" (later confirmed to be Susanoo in Chapter 464, page 16). He had his genjutsu and amaterasu heading into the killer bee mission, so he would already have unlocked susanoo if your explanation was correct.


 * 4. Chapter 464, page 7. This chapter is clearly laying out Sasuke's moveset. C says "in the left eye, amaterasu, in the right eye, the power to control it". Those are Sasuke's two powers, not "in the left eye, amaterasu, in the right eye, a powerful genjutsu". He says this even though he was hit by the genjutsu himself


 * 5. Chapter 464, page 16. Juugo confirms at the top of the page that the "new power" Sasuke mentioned after the Killer Bee fight was Susanoo. Sasuke says "only those have awoken both mangekyo eyes can use this ability...Susanoo". Notice the shift? He's not talking about amaterasu and tsukiyomi, just the left and right eye. This is at the end of the very same chapter that number 4 was from, where C lays out the abilities in Sasuke's left and right eye (neither of which is Tsukiyomi).


 * This is pretty indisputable evidence. Sasuke's MS genjutsu is just MS genjutsu, not the special technique tsukiyomi. He had amaterasu in his left eye, then learned he could control amaterasu with his right eye (a power that is probably called "kagutsuchi") during the Killer Bee fight, which allowed him to unlock Susanoo before he met with the kages. The genjutsu is irrelevant for this, because it's not one of his special techniques. Kaidou (talk) 00:03, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan
When we learn more about the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan we should make it ito its own page.--Chubzhac (talk) 01:11, September 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's just a variant of the Mangekyō though. I don't think there'd be enough information on the EMS or even the need for it to have it's own article since Sasuke's is the only one we know anything about.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:45, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Huh? I'm fairly sure Itachi said that the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan is a completely new Dōjutsu. Not to mention he also said it brings the user new powers... and most in the manga consider it superior/different from the regular Mangekyō Sharingan, not a mere evolution stage like the tomoe's of the Sharingan. I mean it's pretty stupid imo to put in Sasuke's and Madara's info box that they have the Mangekyō Sharingan when in fact it's the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan... also why is Eternal putted in quotation marks? --78.133.76.177 (talk) 17:00, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

It has caused a large change to Sasukes susano which but until more is known about the changes and how it functions differently I think this page is sufficient. --Kotoamatsukami (talk) 15:30, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Edo Tensei - Mangekyō Sharingan
If I know no better, Itachi didn't use too much of MS technique in the first place. but now that he's in Edo tensei mode (to say nothing about Koto Amatsukami), is he's still affected by the "ever vanning light" effect? (if you dunno what i mean, I'm talking about the eye-deterioration till blindness effect that comes with MS activation) or is it the same as Kakashi's MS where the deterioration rate is either nonexistent or obscure (no obvious symptom)? Ar-cen-ciel (talk) 04:24, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

if itachi is summoned using edo tensei, then he cannot be damaged. i think that means that he can't be affected by the deterioration from MS.

Because of the Edo Tensei, I doubt it. He seemed to use Amaterasu and Susanoo without any negative side effects like coughing up blood or fatigue besides bleeding eyes. Either it's taking a while for the blindness to start setting in or he has his own "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan" like Sasuke and Madara but without the fusion of another Mangekyo. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 04:41, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

No he simply is not sick anymore. Since his new body is healthy and immortal he is not sick anymore and his eye sight as at full health too and most likely cannot deteriorate since Edo Tensei will just heal it back to full health. 72.66.90.246 (talk)

Now you're speculating. You don't know the condition of his eyes, so you can't say that they're at full health. For all we know, he might only see blurs. And his body is far from healthy. Don't forget it's basically composed of ash. That's not healthy, even if it doesn't cause him any problems. Ryne 91 (talk) 07:42, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Sasuke's Left EMS
Wouldn't it be a good idea to make a flash picture or however you call it of Sasuke's left EMS since the let one has Itachi's upside down in his own Mangekyo so there is a difference. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 04:43, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

There is no need for it. There is no major difference, except one is upside down? So it seems pointless to do. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:52, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

SusnaooUnleashed has a good point. It could just be a simple drawing. Often in the manga and anime the sharingan is depicted at different angles and are not always in one position. Banan 14kab  06:01, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

I really hope Kishimoto changes the left one so it says the same as the right one, either in upcoming chapters or in the tankōbon. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Mangekyo sharingan's powers
Does MS power's differ from user to user?I f so why does itachi and sasuke have same powers.Can madara use those powers too?Does shishui's MS have only one power?

So far yes. Some powers are not totality unique like the databook and Madara said about Sasoono. We don't know. We don't know.Umishiru (talk) 03:49, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Eternal Mangekyo picture
Doesn't Sasuke's EMS look more like this, instead of the current picture that is present on the page? 95.42.188.170 (talk) 21:02, September 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's merely a fan colouring of the last panels of chapter 553. Sasuke's EMS looks exactly the same in the svg image. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:07, September 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, i know, but in the colouring, as well as in the actual Manga page, the inner black outlines form a circle around Itachi's MS, instead of a hexagon, like in the current picture. In short, i'm saying that it should look more like this, though i don't know if it's that big of difference... 95.42.185.150 (talk) 02:04, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Fan coloring on both.Umishiru (talk) 02:28, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

I know, and it's not like the Sharingan images posted on this page are coloured by Kishimoto himself, everything here is done by fans. I'm just saying that the inner outlines of Sasuke's EMS, look more like a circle, instead of the standart hexagon, like the picture posted on the page, but if you don't agree with me - that's fine... 77.85.101.224 (talk) 19:55, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Spectre
What is that spectre behind Madara with the four sockets in its eyes with the sharigan. You know after he got his EMS?
 * Has not been explained. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 18:24, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

It is most likely a metaphor for his power. How it was only complete after he obtained his brother's eyes.

That spectre it's the container of the eyes ,of the power ,the new and old pair of eyes as Itachi said.

Obtaining Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan
To get the eternal mangekyo you have to take another mangekyo sharingan and transplant those into you, which would also require you to remove your own eyes, so why could the other person not simply take your eyes also and both of you get eternal mangekyo sharingan. --Inutsu (talk) 17:36, October 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * The full details of how to attain the EMS are still a bit blurry, but what's know is that it's a one way process, meaning that the discarded eyes are of no further use (usually cuz of the damage they sustain). Darksusanoo (talk) 17:39, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

That sound resonable. Guess such an easy solution is too much to hope for. --Inutsu (talk) 17:43, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's a simple matter of two things:
 * The eyes are probably integrated into one another hence how they look in Eternal form.
 * You can't transplant a working kidney and give somebody your diseased one and expect it to start working just because it's in another body.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 17:45, October 27, 2011 (UTC)

Them being integrated as you said would make sence however the 2nd part not. If your eyes are going blind from the mangekyo sharingan then you steal another person who is also going blind from mangekyo sharingan (though not neccessarily as blind as you are) then you still gain the eternal mangekyo so the reverse should hold true as well. If what you said first is true, which sounds as good or better than anything else, than that explains it if not however, then the only explanation is what Darksusanoo said that they become unreversably damaged by the transplanting process or else they would surely have just transplanted back and forth.

Your theory DarkSusanoo is wrong as Itachi went completely blind right before he died. Sasuke almost went completely blind before he had his eyes taken out and had Itachi's eyes implanted. Itachi's eyes WERE blind and yet when they were implanted Sasuke acquired perfect vision, to the point he could see fine in the dark I think the blood of the reciever of the eyes flowing through the transplanted eyes sets everything in motion, the fusion of the mangekyo designs, the powers all of it. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 07:25, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

We don't know how the process of obtaining the EMS works. We know what they do to make it occur, but that's it. Anything we say on the matter would just be speculation, so it would not be in our best interests to give answers. This isn't a place for speculation. Ryne 91 (talk) 07:32, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

I disagree that the eyes merge into one pair. The eyes exchange theory sounds reasonable and my answer is because one took the other's eyes to surpass him/her not to be equals. Siblings killed each other to obtain the greater power, thats the curse of hatred ... endless lust for power. And I agree about the blood thing. The blind eyes gains a new light by changing a host ... they are actually not really blind, they just sealed themselves so the user is "forced" to take his/her sibling's eyes to gain a new light and greater power. Don't want to speculate, but it seems its possible to attain a MS and EMS since Kakashi and Shisui were able to do so. I don't see Kakashi killing the closest person to him and when he used it first time on-screen, a seal was used. Not to say a Databook says Kamui is obtained by training one's chakra over and over so most likely with Kamui comes MS as well. And EMS is most likely possible to gain by switching eyes but the sibling would have to overcome the curse of hatred first :P --Elveonora (talk) 07:53, November 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * To obtain a Sharingan, you have to live through some frustrating situation/emotional stress.
 * To obtain a MS, you have to kill the closest person (friend,parent,sibling,lover)
 * To obtain an EMS, you have to take the same eyes of your relative.

I would like to remind all that this isn't a forum. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:39, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Omnibender this is just a really interesting and confusing subject.--Inutsu (talk) 04:43, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

why did madara and izuna just trade eyes? Why did one brother take the others and just, what? "threw out his first eyes"?
 * Because of reasons already discussed above that shouldn't be further discussed, as this isn't a form. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:39, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sasuke MS
Should we write that Sasuke's MS has a shape of a star? What do you think?

The shape is already mentioned. --Elveonora (talk) 09:02, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi's Mangekyō
Is it worth mentioning that Kakashi appears to be able to activate and deactivate his Mangekyō Sharingan at will despite not being an Uchiha? --TricksterKing (talk) 04:23, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

It's not like he's turning off his ordinary Sharingan. Skitts (talk) 04:38, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Combining Sharingan, Mangekyo Sharingan and Rinnegan
So we learn that Madara awakened his Rinnegan before he died with his Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan...

Isn't it logical then that we combine a page that tells that the Sharingan (explaining the three stages) becomes a Mangekyo Sharingan, which then becomes Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan which THEN becomes Rinnegan?

Of course, it would be a small page. The full explenation of each Dojustu would be a redirection to another page. (already existing ones) Antonino200 (talk) 23:06, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think so. The way that the Edo Madara spoke of it, awakening the Rinnegan wasn't exactly natural, and wasn't until after he had integrated Hashirama's DNA into his genetic structure. And I fail to see why we need a single page to serve such a little function when the articles already do that. :O Skitts (talk) 00:03, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Manga 574
I think we have enough information to start a new section called "Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan".

Things we could add, include:


 * Seeing everything the previous owner did.
 * Having new powers and abilities.

I'm forgetting a few more, but I believe it is of importance that we do so.Antonino200 (talk) 14:18, February 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * New powers and abilities?
 * The Mangekyō Sharingan can share images- that much we know already. Firstly we don't even know if any of what Sasuke said can be taken literally or was even translated properly.
 * A few more? We've only seen two EMS one of whom did nothing out of the ordinary with it.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:28, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't it mentioned somewhere on this very wikia that the EMS gives new powers?Antonino200 (talk) 14:20, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Which we know nothing about. The only thing that was ever said other than it doesn't lose its sight is what Itachi said, and to date, what he said is still ambiguous whether it means the EMS is born or that new techniques are born. That ambiguousness is (or at least should be) reflect in the instances the wiki says anything like that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:39, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sasuke's EMS eyes fixed
In chapter 574 it is revealed his right eye was a design error in his EMS debuting chapter, so the image on this page of his EMS needs to be fixed as it is shown the left eye is the correct design not the right eye. 72.66.90.246 (talk) 18:05, February 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Or — and this is a long shot — his eyes were spinning. We won't know whether or not it was an error until the tankobon is released.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:30, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Even if that one eye spinned, In every panel after that shows Sasuke's EMS both eyes are the same as his left eye in the original appearance of the EMS in Sasuke, so either way, spinning or not, ShounenSuki's image is now incorrect.72.66.90.246 (talk) 08:02, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Apparently I misspoke when I left this message. The tankobon was already out by then.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:37, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Handfull of unlocking
That is not really acurate. The Mangekyo Sharingan has only be opened/activated by Madara, Sasuke, and Itachi. Should we change it to be more specific?
 * You're forgetting both Izuna and Shisui, so given that "handful" simply means a small amount, it is completely appropriate. Also, please remember to sign your posts using ~ . Blackstar1 (talk) 22:22, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * And Kakashi. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:12, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Pattern of jutsu
Might it be possible that the left eye is based on Yin Chakra (mental jutsu, like Tsukiyomi, and the right eye of Yang (Physical jutsu, such as Amaterasu)?

Or is there no pattern at all? Derigar (talk) 17:15, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know. Just pointing out that between Sasuke and Itachi it's reversed. --Elveonora (talk) 17:31, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Correct version of Sasuke's EMS
Please add the correct version of Sasuke's EMS in the picture gallery. The current one is obsolete now. The recent chapters have fixed the error.--BlackGhost91 (talk) 05:59, March 27, 2012 (UTC)

I wonder which one is correct now. It pointing up or down --Elveonora (talk) 13:05, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

This is also good Salil dabholkar (talk) 13:14, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Awakening Susanoo
I thought Susanoo was awakened when a Uchiha ninja uses his/her own unique abilities in both eyes, not necessarily Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. I thought that because Sasuke and Itachi were direct relatives (brothers) that they had the same abilities and therefore awakened their Susanoo in a similar manner. I didn't think that applied to every Uchiha. I was lead to believe that every Uchiha had different Mangekyo Sharingan abilities (with the possible exception of direct relatives). I never read or saw anywhere that one had to have used Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu in order to use Susanoo, that just happened to be the case with Sasuke and Itachi. Also, during Sasuke's and Itachi's fight, didn't Zetsu say (also the first paragraph in the Susanoo page of this wiki said this) that Susanoo "is the third ability granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan after awakening the abilities in both eyes." It didn't specifically say that those two abilities had to be Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu to awaken Susanoo. Am I missing something?

--TheDeadpool2 (talk) 21:29, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Also no need to make double posts: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Susanoo#Awakening_Susanoo --Elveonora (talk) 21:59, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

According to the 3rd databook, Susanoo ONLY awakens when both Amaterasu. And Tsukuyomi have been awakened in one's eyes. Skitts (talk) 23:55, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

......Well I guess that answers that question....and I made a double post to have a doubled chance of getting my question answered, and Susanoo and the Mangekyo sharingan pages seemed the most appropriate to post this question. --TheDeadpool2 (talk) 10:48, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Itachi's MS

 * Shouldn't we change the section of Itachi Uchiha that he didn't kill Shisui, rather saw him die? He admitted it, so why putting Itachi that he killed Shisui?
 * --IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 09:35, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was never not said that Itachi didn't kill Shisui but that Shisui was the one that orchestrated it. That's why there's that word "allegedly" there. I don't think Itachi's section should explain Shisui's story/that whole event, it's just focusing on the dōjutsu.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:15, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Amaterasu
Is it worth noting that in the most recent chapter, sasuke using amaterasu still caused his eyes to bleed, but a drastically smaller amount than when he had a regular mangekyo?--65.28.12.252 (talk) 01:57, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:04, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

It is interesting to note that not only did his eyes bleed but his susanoo had its original form instead of its EMS gashtly form... Also why is it stated that sasuke's amateratsu is superior to itachis cause he can shape transform it and extinguish its flames... it is true that sasuke can shape transform amateratsu but itachi could also extinguish the flames (Chapter 390 page 9), so sasukes amateratsu is superior solely due to shape transformation


 * We haven't seen anyone yet who can use Amaterasu and not have their eye bleed, so why would would it not bleed at all? I don't think he actually extinguished the flames, they just burned the wing until there was nothing left. Same way as the white snake was burned until there was nothing left. Sasuke has literally stopped the flames and extinguished them while they were in full effect, something Itachi has never been able to do. As for the Susanoo comment, we have seen both Madara and Itachi use different forms for their Susanoo as well so I doubt Sasuke's would just stop using his earlier forms. Joshbl56  13:41, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Eternal Mangekyo and Enhanced Stamina and Chakra Reserves
Does the Eternal Mangekyo grants the wielder with greater chakra reserves and enhanced stamina or simply don't put pressure in the body? Because Sasuke hasn't show any sings of fatigue after using Susano and Amaterasu in a single day and battling Kabuto. We can't take Madara as an example because he was ressurected and don't tired out like Itachi --Jinchurama9 (talk) 05:58, May 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * "don't put pressure in the body"

Probably this. But it would just be a speculation --Salil (talk) 06:06, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

EMS for the last time ...
I see people speculating that Sasuke's EMS eyes are a failure as his eyes still bleed from using MS techniques. It was never stated that one's eyes won't bleed from Amaterasu, it's the heat that makes the eyes bleed. EMS restores the lost light and the eyes will never seal themselves again from using the MS techniques.--Elveonora (talk) 13:25, May 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that in the article o.O --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:45, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

No, I have seen people saying that Narutowikia is wrong about this and they wanted to make edits that EMS transplant was a failure and other crap. So just making that clear, even above a user is debating such EDIT: Josh has already handled that ... hopefully.--Elveonora (talk) 13:51, May 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm just not getting why people keep saying this. It's all over some forums and it hasn't made sense to me yet. Amaterasu has always caused the user's eye to bleed, unless I'm missing someone. Joshbl56  13:55, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Pretty much. Eyes are bleeding when Amaterasu is used due to the heat, flames coming our/into ur eye ya know. Tsukuyomi puts strain on an eye as it creates pressure on the blood vessels. Also it's not a physical/real kind of blindness, the eyes seal themselves as the "light" is extinguished ... Itachi's were completely "blind" yet they were given a new light inside of new host--Elveonora (talk) 14:06, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi MS or not ?
It's clearly stated that in order to control Kurama (and as hinted by Madara and shown by Tobi other Tailed Beasts) a Mangekyou Sharingan is required. Thus if we go by both databooks and manga, by logic Tobi must have MS.

Not to mention his mysterious space-time powers stems from his Sharingan eye, unseen in "regular" Sharingan. Isn't that his MS's power ? I know it may appear speculative as we haven't seen it, but "we know" it's there as due to above 2 points. Isn't it at least worthy a trivia that Tobi is hinted to have MS due to feats and such ?--Elveonora (talk) 22:05, May 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * What do you mean shown by Tobi with other Tailed Beast? As far as I know, he still had the regular Sharingan when controlling them. I will say that Kurama's eye was a regular sharingan when being controlled. As for the space-time jutsu, how do we even know that's a sharingan ability? He could just use his right eye for the effect of looking like one. We've already scene him transporting parts of his body without having the whole swirling effect over his eye. Joshbl56  23:10, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Same goes for Madara, he was seen using regular Sharingan to control Kurama yet the plot says MS is required. When has he used it without the eye ? I remember him using right eye eaach time--Elveonora (talk) 23:15, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Since he has controlled Kurama most likely, but we don't know. And again, he didn't only use his eyes to control/ subdue the Tailed Beasts, regardless of what Kakashi thought. His transportation technique might not even be a Sharingan technique. It could just be for effect. Skitts (talk) 00:55, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Elveonora, I don't really have an answer to that. Maybe someone who has more insight does but I don't right now. It could be a giant contradiction in the manga or Kishi changed his mind about it. When I asked what other Tailed Beast, I meant what other beast has he used only the Sharingan to control, not which eye. As for Madara controlling Kurama, the only pic I can find of that is this one, which only shows him talking to Kurama, not controlling him, so he could have changed it to the EMS before taking control. With Tobi, we literally see him using a regular sharingan to subdue the creature. Joshbl56 01:08, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

@Skitts, but he used just Sharingan on Kurama. For the technique, I doubt he would do that for effect, you could thought that with his old mask that resembled a spiral ... each time he sucks thing in, right eye is used ... not to mention Danzo's bodyguards came from the eye as well. It's clearly the power of his right Sharingan, if his left Sharingan also had such power, he would wear a mask with 2 holes. But for what we know, Tobi's technique might be similar case to Kamui ...

@Josh, I don't think we should treat that as a contradiction or retcon. Tobi can do things with his Sharingan comparable to those of MS ... I think we should mention in trivia that he can possibly be a user. Also here--Elveonora (talk) 16:03, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Or we could just wait and see what unfolds. If Tobi does have a Mangekyō Sharingan, Kishimoto isn't going to let something like that go unanswered. Even when it's highly likely, it's nothing more than speculation at this stage.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:09, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Does Itachi have an Pseudo Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan?
When Itachi was resurrected by Kabuto and when he used his Mangekyo Sharingan; throughout the whole day he used it, he never complained or experienced any type of blindness or after effects after using his three Mangekyo tech. There was never a time where he had his vision deteriorate. I honestly think he had some type of pseudo Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan because of the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation. Should I put down in this article and the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation article about this? --BlackGhost91 (talk) 23:07, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

My answer is no, because such term doesn't exist officially and Edos have almost limitless potential due to being immortal and having infinite chakra etc. BUT... the interesting thing is his usage of Mangekyou Sharingan with no ill effects, but after the usage of Izanami his eye lost it's light... kinda worthy a trivia I guess.--Elveonora (talk) 23:24, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah but Izanami would have made you blind regardless of whether you're an Edo Tensei or not because that's an overpowered dojutsu like that needs something to keep it from being overused. It's just during his battle with Sasuke, he was obviously experiencing deteriorating vision from using the Mangekyo Sharingan but when he's an Edo Tensei, he never experienced this or complained about it. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 23:31, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

That's what I mean as well, once could argue that as an Edo, his eyes regenerate from usage of MS techniques, but why not Izanami then?--Elveonora (talk) 00:17, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

From what i can tell, the blindness induced by Izanagi/Izanami tech, work more like sealing one's vision, instead of just destroying it, though it can't be completely proven yet, it would explain the difference in general. From the information gathered, the MS causes irreperable damage to ones eyes over time, while Izanagi/Izanami, causes immediate blindness after one use. As Edo's can regenarate non-stop, the MS backlash would be negated, but if the other two actually seal one's eye, it would bypass that regeneration alltogether Darksusanoo (talk) 00:55, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

The way you're looking at it would be a yes he has "pseudo" EMS but that is not how one gets the EMS. Two MS have to be integrated in order to get it. Technically, Itachi's condition was only due to the fact that he was an Edo Tensei, nothing more. As such it's not worth mentioning. Also, even if a EMS used Izanagi or Izanami, that wouldn't stop the technique from sealing their eyesight. So if Sasuke used it, more likely than not, the eye would be sealed away.Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:05, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's important enough to put in anyway. I know it's not a true way to gain the EMS but it's an interesting side note of how to gain something similar to it. I'm putting it in the article. --BlackGhost91 (talk) 14:54, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. It cannot be placed in the article. It's junk trivia, meaning it's akin to you simply clutching a hand full of straws and meshing them together. No good will come of it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:40, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

gaining eternal Mangekyō Sharingan
I do not think the series introduced any other way of gaining eternal Mangekyō Sharingan other than utilization of a brother's eyes. Itachi made it clear during his battle with Sasuke; the information below seems to be nothing short of speculation. Although a sibling is the best donor, it is the only compatible donor.

"The tighter the blood ties are between the "donor" and the receiver, the better it is for compatibility — a sibling for example would make the best donor.[6]"

First Statements
So I apologize in advance for bringing this up once more, and I will let the lack of Uchiha addition for Tobi slide, but deliberately stating he is a non-Uchiha in the first couple sentences of the article? This is unacceptable.

Tobi told Kakashi that "borrowed power" wouldn't matter. Regardless if he's alluding to himself being Obito or that Kakashi is not fit to wield the Uchiha's power (because Tobi is a member), that is crystal clear indication that Tobi is an Uchiha. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:37, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

He's not a confirmed Uchiha, it's not like we can list it as "awakened by an Uchiha and someone who may or may not be an Uchiha". If he's confirmed as an Uchiha, he'll be added as an Uchiha, but for now, he's not an Uchiha. Tobi's statement can also imply indicate that he disapproves of Kakashi using a power that isn't originally his, regardless of its source. No need to see an indication he's an Uchiha. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:57, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

But then wouldn't that be hypocritical if Tobi's own power was "borrowed"?

I don't see why he would even bother saying anything about Kakashi's Kamui if Tobi was in the same boat as him. It makes no sense. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 03:05, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree Omni, this chapter (again) further confirms that Tobi is an Uchiha. I don't even slightly believe that he is Obito (nonsense) but even if he is, then he is an Uchiha. He wouldn't comment as stated above on Kakashi using a borrowed power (while doing it himself) if he wasn't from the Uchiha Clan. It's the same thing Sasuke picked on Kakashi for, not to mention that stating "awakened by Kakashi and Tobi 2 non-Uchiha" is for the latter more than a speculation as everything points out for him to be one, latest chapter included, diving it even further. But if you still disagree, at least remove the non-Uchiha statement and change it to "ambiguous origins" instead--Elveonora (talk) 18:05, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with both sides, odd. Yes Tobi did call Kakashi's power borrowed, but that is not enough for us to not call him a non-Uchiha, despite how unacceptable you view it to be. When his origins are revealed, that "non-Uchiha" part may or may not be repealed but as it is today, I have to agree with the wording of the article as Tobi's identity is still an unknown to us.--Cerez 365 ™(talk)18:25, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Possible new layout?
I was looking at the kekkei genkai article and got an idea. I tinkered with the layout of this page and was wondering whether anyone liked this or would prefer that we just keep the gallery at the bottom? I tried to get the symbols to go side by side, but to no avail, so if anyone knows whether or not that's possible, it'd be helpful.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:55, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer the gallery...But your layout doesn't look too bad, it's good too...But I'll go with gallery at the bottom. akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 14:01, August 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks nice, but I too think the gallery is better. In the kekkei genkai article, the icons are mostly decorative, in this case, the gallery is there to show how the MS designs are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:14, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, fair enough. I was just tinkering any way.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:04, August 28, 2012 (UTC)