Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-36006024-20180727165341/@comment-6769189-20180808205334

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero

How do we know that they were in mid air? Naruto was in the air yes but there is no evidence that I currently see showing that obito was in mid air. Obito is falling on his back in the kamui dimension. Even if the rasengan didn't finish him, he is very finishable. I know we didn't get to see what happened, so its speculation, but it does seem very suspect to be honest. Obito was midair in 598, on pages 14 and 15 his feet are not planted on anything and his clothes are in freefall. There is also no sign of any type of ground for him to stand on.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

That's not what I meant. If naruto could hit him with a rasengan in the kamui dimension as he did in Chapter 598 pg 15, he could have used a chakra arm and rasenshuriken in its place, but instead he only prepared a rasengan.... Naruto's clone was teleported with the Rasengan and probably didnt have the time to form a new a Rasenshuriken.

Obito's regen and durability is hax i know, but he got a hole blown in his chest from raikiri. There is absolutely no WAY he is surviving a rasenshuriken from naruto. At the very least, he isn't fighting anymore, not even the full blown hashirama could keep fighting after that.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I don't think naruto necessarily had 24/7 killer intent towards obito. I mean, wasn't it established during the Pein Arc that naruto wasn't gonna kill his enemies and continue cycle of hatred? Even after they extracted the tailedbeasts from obito, naruto did't try to finish him. I'm pretty sure naruto is one of those personalities that only will kill if there is no other choice. Isn't this the same naruto who called Obito the best guy ever? The same dude who killed his parents in cold blood lol (even if obito turned a new leaf, there is no way that atones for everything else he has done to the point where naruto basically puts this guy above iruka sensei )? I'm not trying to say that Naruto absolutely wasn't trying to kill him, but its not that black/white imo. He did express interest in who he was as well. Ending the world is a pretty good reason to kill him. After the extraction he would have died anyways. At least thats what we thought until it was revealed that the Mazo would keep him alive.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Look at chapter 598 pg 1. Naruto using his top speed should have been able to easily close the distance if he was using his topspeed between himself and obito. Yet we can see him running a few steps and he has barely closed the distance. And opts for a chakra arm to try and flatten obito. Obito didn't even move, he used kamui to avoid it, so we know obito hasn't changed his position. If naruto was using his "top speed" then why was he so far away even after running for a panel? Bullet time. He also needed to try to stay out of arms reach because Obito would win with a touch.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Even V2 ayy would instantly close that distance. Bullet time wasnt active at that point to illustrate how fast A is bevause we hadnt seen his top speed at that point before.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Also, another consideration that I don't think anyone has brought up is shadow clones. At this point, naruto has made tons of shadow clones for other battlefields. So hasn't he been losing stamina since the fight with Ayy? Shunshin uses chakra, and even if naruto is a chakra beast, surely he has way less chakra than the fight with Ei, so that could explain why obito and the others can keep up with him. This wasnt noted to be a problem since Kurama started cooperating. Shunshin is such a low level technique the chakra cost is pretty much negligable.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Also, i don't understand your description of Ayy. Ayy was considered at minimum to be the third fastest shinobi alive when Minato was living. What does his top speed have to do with his opponent seeing him? A MS user in sasuke had trouble tracking Raikage's movements. Minato didn't track Ayy, ayy simply ran in a straight line. Minato was quick enough to assess the situation after the blitz initiated and Raikage closed the distanced and throw his kunai, and avoid getting tagged in the process and counter attack Ayy using the instant speed of Flying rajin. Karin also said The raikage was "impossibly fast" So Raikage is just that fast. He is shown to disappear because he is using the body flicker technique. I'm pretty sure even fodder ninja have disappeared using that. Also, even V1 Ayy covered a huge distance in one panel, just look at chapter 467 pg 1. To me the situation of speed is pretty complex, so I'm a bit confused. I think Lone was making the point that we as viewers dont get to see his movements in his fight with Sasuke because no bullet time was used and he is so fast.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

There are other times though when bullet time can be seen clearly. Like when Deva path killed two naruto clones and dodged two rasenshuriken on like the same page. We know that rasenshuriken is like rediciously fast so we know Pein was fast enough to avoid it, and we can see that the rasenshuriken was barely moving in that panel. So it must mean things were happening in slow motion. I know its possible bullet time was being used in the obito fight but i don't see it clearly yet. The only time we get any comparison to real time we get is in 595 p. 20 where Naruto and Kakashi are in freefall and Obito puts some distance between himself and them.

Kirito975 wrote: Okay so clearly, Obito is very much a controversial character because of plot and inconsistent feats.

At the end of the day, in an all out death match, do you think you think Obito will defeat "unbeatable" 6 Paths of Pain in an all out death match without intel on each other. they're both shrewd shinobi, they both will learn on the go and they both have massive chakra levels and potency.

all i've read so far is an argument about obitos capabilities. but let us not forget whos fighting. this is the same Obito that helped wipe out the entire Uchiha Clan, and gave the 4th Hokage issues, was fast enough to save sasuke from a Jinton from the 3rd Tsuchikage and react to Ayy's speed, and could intimidate kabuto into needing Madara as a bargaining chip.

This is the same 6 paths of pain that forced jiraya to use sage mode and end up killing him, and also destroyed an ENTIRE great village, and even giving the nine tails some issues and kill a rusted Hanzo who was still a very dangerous combatant.

the fight with Jiraya and Pain shows just how much of a difference Intel makes in a fight, where naruto who was still relatively inexperienced compared to Jiraya could defeat pain, because Jiraya did all the work for him.

These are two very strong individuals who have various measures to defeat each other. Obito stomps. He has higher speed, strength, durability and out haxes Pain.