Talk:Zetsu

Split the page Part 2
As I said in Part 1, we should split the page. Here's why: In Chapter 521, page 4, Madara referred "White Zetsu" and "Black Zetsu". Yatanogarasu 21:31, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * That would just make it more difficult to refer to Zetsu prior to chapter 450. ~SnapperTo 22:09, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. While his two halves might have two very different personalities, they are still the same Zetsu. Read about multiple personality disorder and you'll understand. Cicaneo (talk) 22:18, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Games
how many games did Zetsu appear User:Gamma Venom 567

How to Handle the White Zetsu Army
Right now he's listed as not having been in combat, but now that some of his White Sides have been in combat that's not exactly the case. They're both part of him and also separate and multiple, so I'm not exactly sure how to write that. Also, should 'White Zetsu Army' be in his teams? It's kinda true. Upgrade of the abilities section at least is needed. ZeroSD (talk) 05:47, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there is a clear difference between Zetsu's white side and the 100.000 White Zetsu. It seems a good idea to me to keep them as separate as possible to avoid confusion. —ShounenSuki (talk 06:33, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, an army Zetsu is merely a white-half that's kept separate and can be replaced, eventually plus some boosting from Kabuto. Come to think of it, the Zetsu at the Kage meeting still had the half-face thing so that one wasn't an 'army Zetsu' per se. So our ignorance of his ability to fight is mostly black-half. In any case, they are his jutsu/body/whatever.ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * They might be similar, but the army Zetsu have (or haven't) shown several things that make them distinct from Zetsu himself.
 * They can open their bodies like flytraps.
 * They don't seem to have personalities or even true consciousness.
 * They have complete bodies.
 * They are powered up by the Shodai clone.
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 06:50, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * True. So the only normal White Zetsu we've seen is the one at the Kage meet. ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

unsensable
i truly dont see what iss wrong with zetsu not beiing able to be sensed and that he is the land itself in the ability corner


 * Because that is a consequence of Mayfly, which is already explained. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

mayfly talk about merging with the earth,not to be the land itself--178.118.121.7 (talk) 20:28, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

If he merges with it, he becomes it. If not, it's something that will be further clarified in upcoming chapters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

it doesn't exactly looks like his mayfly power,when he becomes the land itself,i think it is something we should note --The tyrant kuma (talk) 20:32, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Personality
First paragraph under personality: "the black half is more serious and intelligent while the white half is carefree, easygoing, and seems to enjoy toying with others".

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "enjoy[s] toying with others" - playfulness? Sadism? What scene is this inference based upon? I don't mean to be nit-picky here, I just want some clarification. Zetsu is a mysterious enough character as it is. Cicaneo (talk) 03:24, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Zetsu's Root Thing
I'm not entirely sure how to even word this on the page, but I also wanted to get a general opinion about it before I changed anything. Currently it says: Zetsu can also use it to extend roots underground through which he can communicate with his other half should they be separated. What I noticed in the pic though was the motion lines, where he came out of the ground. It seems to me what he is doing is more like using the white-zetsu material remaining that forms his other leg to extend the roots and actually the white zetsu shown growns out from the end of those roots. In other words, that white zetsu wasn't already there to connect with, but grew out of the root's end to communicate. That would explain the motion lines like he was just coming out of the ground, and it would certainly fit in with what's been seen of the white zetsu's abilities, to form so many clones like that. I do think it should be changed from what it currently says, but I want to run it by people since it would also change the meaning of what's being said 98.71.99.102 (talk) 01:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * Remember that they have one body and the black half isn't black entirely. Neither do i think it was a clone as never seen a clone of Zetsu with the flytrap appendages before and for some reason I think if the black half of Zetsu had made a clone it wouldn't have spoken the "carefree" way it did. From what i saw after extending the roots that "stuff" that came down ran along to another set of roots.--Cerez365™☺ 01:40, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

it did, it connected with the normal tree roots and suddenly started growing along them at what seemed like a greater pace. But the thing about the spikes is a good point. I know he's not totally black though, that was why I was thinking that left leg helps black zetsu keep in touch with other zetsu bodies, because it's still enough to use some of the white zetsu ability. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:14, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

I guess it's fine as it is for the moment, but what peaks my interest is that when his head pops out of the ground it's got those 3 tentacles sticking out of the side of his head leading into the ground. That's a bit different, but I do get the point about the spikes. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:27, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Those distorted attached things are always, there. Check any the concept of Zetsu at the end of the article. His leg looked like that in the manga and anime as well, and his head also looked a bit like that when he moved around watching Sasuke and Itachi's fight. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:32, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * That normally happens when they use Mayfly technique though.--Cerez365™☺ 02:33, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if you're talking about the spikes that always seem to surround him, those I know are always there, but what I'm talking about is that if you look at the latest chapter there is one picture in particular that clearly shows the ends of the roots that extended from black zetsu's white foot attached to the head of the white zetsu that pops out of the ground. Those have never showed up on his head before. I went back as well and looked at all the other zetsu appearances, and the one that struck me was in chapter 486 when white zetsu went to tell madara they were in trouble, the white zetsu next to sasuke never moved, another white one just appeared next to madara in his hideout, though the same roots couldn't be seen attached to his head, so perhaps that's a black zetsu thing. Since white zetsu's location wasn't shown it could be him the roots connected to so perhaps it's not a clone, but the 486 chapter seems to show white zetsu making a new white zetsu appear somewhere else to relay the info 98.71.99.102 (talk) 13:47, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Wood Release
Chapter 545 Page 3: "Based on how many there are, I would assume they're living plant clones grown from cells harvested from the First Hokage! They're weaker, but can still use Mokuton!" Timeel39 (talk) 16:11, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason you put this here Timeel? —Fmakck (Images 16:13, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I put it in his infobox but someone took it out =P Was I wrong to put it there? Timeel39 (talk) 16:17, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * But can Zetsu himself use Mokuton? Madara did modify the clones. —Fmakck (Images 16:22, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll admit to being a tad confused on that front and would really prefer if we wait for raws or some more direction with this =S--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:25, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, you can never really trust scanlations. —Fmakck (Images 16:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！ I got it from here: http://topmangaspoilers.info/ does that count? It translates roughly as "However weak, they use Wood Release!" (I'm not as proficient as translating from Japanese as others) Timeel39 (talk) 17:07, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Text spoilers are wrong way too often and are unreliable, wait for the raw. —Fmakck (Images 18:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the RAW says exactly the same: 「うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！」 - "Uzumatte yowaikedo Mokuton o tsukaushi". And Timeel's translation is correct, as far as I can see. But I can't imagine how they usw Mokuton. Only because they have the cells? They'd still need Water Chakra and Earth Chakra to mold the Wood Chakra. I think Sakura's just referring to the cells and not to an possible ability to use Mokuton... Seelentau 愛議 02:59, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I always considered that if you have the genes for a certain combination, you will automatically have an affinity for those two. If Zetsu can use Wood Release, by definition, he can also use Earth Release and Water Release. There's no point in, let's say, being able to use Storm Release, but not being able to change your chakra into water and lightning natured chakra to merge them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:06, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, there's no point. But we know that ones affinity lies in his heart and not his cells. Otherwise, Kakuzu wouldn't have all five natures. In the end, this is just one more topic to be solved in the future. Maybe we'll get more information in the upcoming chapter. Seelentau 愛議 03:34, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * The heart is made of cells isn't it? I've always been sceptical about it, because if you have genes, you have them in all your cells. Unless there's a unknown rule which says that the genes which allow such combinations are in the heart alone, I don't see why it should be the heart. The one other big deal about chakra and heart we know about is that it seems to be the most import point in the chakra pathway system, as Kabuto almost killed Naruto by disconnecting his heart from the rest of his body, meaning the Nine-Tails' chakra couldn't kick in and heal him, and because there's where the last of the Eight Gates is located. Unless there's such a "gene responsible for chakra affinity which is expressed only in the heart" thing, every transplanted body part should be able to generate a chakra which leans towards a certain affinity. I'm taking biomedicine, I think I know more about genetics than Kishimoto. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:47, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, first of all, Danzo has used Wood, but not water and wind. Second, Zetsu's body itself may be similar to wood release, being able to merge with plants and flora via Mayfly. Third, his absorption techniques is like plant roots absorbing nutrients. Fourth, his Substitute Technique allows him to alter his cells, "cells" as in Hashirama's Wood Release cells. Will any of these help determine whether Zetsu has Wood Release? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * zetsu or white zetsu in particular is made from hashiramas cells just like yamato. a kekkei genkai is a special ability that comes from ones DNA. regardless of if he originally had water and earth release having wood release means that you atomatically have water and earth releases like danzo he never really showed wood release but he had it and he didint use water or earth release yet you gave him them. also just being able to use two chakra natures or more does not mean one can combine them to create the advanced chakra nature. like kakashi he has water, fire (in anime), earth, and lightning release and preassumably wind release but he cant use the advanced elements of them like boil release, lava release, or storm release. oh and hashirama has not used water or earth release and you give him that. look the bottom line is since has the cells regardless of how weak it is or if he can or has the potential to use water and earth release its still in his DNA.

WellShounensuki's translation is basically the same thing, but I still have to ask, do we list them (Zetsu and the clones) as wood release users now? --Cerez365™ 14:58, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it will hurt to wait until at least one Mokuton ability is demonstrated. Faust-RSI (talk) 15:10, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that description should be enough to say Zetsu has Wood Release, though not enough to mark any of his techniques as Wood Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:29, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * So are we going to do this? From the "it's even more like Yamato's than before" comment, I think it's safe to say that:
 * The original Zetsu (at least White Zetsu) can use Wood Release, due to being made from harvested cells of the First Hokage. If he's the clones are more similar than they were before, it means they were already similar before, meaning Wood Release already in the original.
 * The White Zetsu Army can also use Wood Release, as they're made from the original Zetsu, as well as being powered/modified by Yamato.
 * Anyone disagrees? If so why. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly it's along the same lines of Danzō's use of Mokuton but do you mean are we going to list them as users O_o? because it's already mentioned in their articles.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:33, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * But not in their infoboxes or in the nature transformation article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm all for listing them then, it follows logic and manga stuff.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:42, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bump.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:35, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wood Release is already there, I added it to those relevant pages about three days ago. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:48, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just realised =_="--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:50, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Real Whitezetsu
How can we be sure he was made from Hashis cells, as Sakura did an autopsy on one of the clones, who were grown from the Hashirama tree/Yamato. For all we know the clones aren't even actual clones of Zetsu, just taking his appearance. (scare tactic)--RexGodwin (talk) 00:37, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sakura also said the Zetsu at the summit had similar DNA to Yamato. The Zetsu clones DNA became more like Yamato's after he was used to power them up.--Deva 27 00:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Yeah now that I Reread that I see. But when did Sakura get that information on the original? He didn't die at the Summit.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:19, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Raikage killed a Zetsu remember? Probably got a sample from that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:26, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah that was the real one. He was shown splitting off from the black one and had been with Sasuke until he came out of the ground infront of the Kages.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still a clone of the original, meaning it has the same DNA. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:40, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean. He's still the real White Zetsu. There's only one real White Zetsu. The one we've seen the most. He was shown using clones, but we know there is an original that is usually attached to the black one. The real one got choked by A, and ge didn't create clones till later.

The Zetsu that the Raikage killed set up a Spore Technique, from which other Zetsu appeared. They're clone-like, but not really clones. Considering they're made from Zetsu, it's reasonable to assume that they must have been able to get something from those. There are two possibilities: either the Zetsu the Raikage killed was a clone, who can use the original's techniques just like him, or it was the original White Zetsu, which would mean that there's no real "original" White Zetsu, meaning that as long as there's a White Zetsu, others can be created from it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:27, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to clear some things out:
 * 1. The Zetsu Raikage "killed" was the real one, because only real White Zetsu has a "normal" flytrap. Apparently, he wasn't killed (as it takes more to kill him than break his neck). Karin saw his chakra after his neck was broken and it is was normal just like everyone else (chapter 464, page 11).
 * 2. The clones from Spore Technique are perfectly normal, they just didn't need to fully grow in the summit, their purpose was to absorb chakra and restrict movements. But as shown in chapter 486, pages 3-4, they are able to form full bodies. So, even if they didn't get the body of real Zetsu during the summit, they got plenty of his spore-clones, which DNA must be the same. Faust-RSI (talk) 09:05, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Karin only started feeling his chakra again when the Spore Technique activated, meaning that the spores drained chakra of those with it and grew itself. Most likely what she detected was Zetsu's chakra from the spores, which began producing chakra after it started draining. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:23, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Whatever the method, he wasn't killed back then, at least permanently, that's the point. Faust-RSI (talk) 05:42, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Zetsu's Techniques
Mayfly, Mayfly Communication Technique, Spore Technique, should they be considered Wood Release? It's official that he can use Wood Release techniques. Those techniques have something to do with plants and the earth. OmegaRasengan (talk) 02:22, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Though that may be true, I think we should wait until they're officially listed as such given that it was called weak as well as the general lack of information that we have on all of it.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:27, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well its been a while, I think we should classify them as wood release. Madara uses a technique almost exactly like the Mayfly in recent manga and it is because of wood release. I say we at least add it as wood release and possibly make Madara a user. Skarrj (talk) 12:12, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing has changed. What Madara did was simply hide in a tree. Mayfly is much more than that and only characteristic of Zetsu.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:15, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

name meaning
what does his name mean?, just wondering --Caseather (talk) 04:05, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw somewhere that it meant (絶, Eradicate) but it'd be best that you ask User:ShounenSuki about that.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 04:52, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

The death of white zetsu
I think it happened just last chapter with Sasuke killing him. Anyone else agree? 67.184.16.75 (talk) 20:46, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think Sasuke's final Susano'o killed a zetsu clone... I think that was the original white zetsu. He only has half a face, whereas all the clones have a full white zetsu body.  67.184.16.75 (talk) 20:44, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree, that might not be the real Zetsu given that it dodn't have any of the aloe vera appendages. That along with the fact that we've seen one of his clones act in the same manner during Team 7's reunion in chapter 541. I think we should wait until it's said so definitively.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:48, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * True, Zetsu has made clones that looked like that one now that I think about it. 67.184.16.75 (talk) 21:08, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * the clones in the war were produced by gedo mazo flower thing ,wile the half faces ones are by White Zetsu.--Linkdarkside (talk) 22:10, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Also he wasn't wearing the other half of Zetsu's pants. --ChaosLove (talk) 23:31, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Some people really lack attention, so I'm doing this the hard way.


 * 1. This is original White Zetsu:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6872/originalyw.jpg
 * He ALWAYS has his flaytrap things.


 * 2. This is White Zetsu regular clone:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7476/clonef.jpg
 * It looks the same but lacks the flytrap


 * 3. This is the soldiers of White Zetsu Army: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1774/armyv.jpg
 * They look different because they have complete bodies, they are green and have spikes because of Kabutos use of Yamato DNA to make them stronger. Why I'm talking about them? Because some people can't see the difference between regular Zetsu clone and Zetsu Army soldiers.


 * 4. And now this: http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5816/zertsu.jpg
 * I've even lightened it. It's clear that this Zetsu doesn't have flytrap things. Thus, it's a regular clone. Editing. Faust-RSI (talk) 00:28, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I know it's an old topic and all, but I'm a little lost. Wouldn't the original White Zetsu have died when A snapped his neck? When was the last time we saw the original White Zetsu? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 00:40, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Appearance issue
Maybe for somebody this is old news or maybe for someone it was never a question. But participating on several Naruto-related forums I know for sure there is an issue with Zetsu's flytrap-extensions (or spikes, when they White and Black are separated). The main and obvious question is - is the flytrap a jutsu or is it some kind of mutation, real part of his body? Maybe having a flytrap as a part of the body sounds to unreal even for "Naruto" manga, but after it was explained (at least) White Zetsu is an artificial being, this issue became popular again. The last chapter showed us Blach Zetsu can freely manipulate his spikes turning them into roots possibly through Mokuton jutsu. But more importantly, when he was immobilised and injured and said he couldn't move, the spikes completely disappeared, indicating they are a jutsu or a Mokuton related ability, but not a real part of his body. So, I propose to add this information into Zetsu's abilities or appearance section.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:48, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Now this I understand. However, I am against adding this information. Yes he can apparently manipulate the extensions into roots (maybe that was just a side-effect) because of his Wood Release ability, but in that frame you cannot see his entire body. It could simply be that the extensions are still there and you're assuming that they should have been visible (part of his hand is still transformed by the way). It could also be that the extensions can function in the same manner as autotomy does (the thing lizards do with their tails). I'd have been fine with this had his whole body been shown but the wikia isn't here to appease people in forums.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking more closely - yes, you can't tell for sure how much of the upper part of his body is shown. But on the page 10 it is clearly visible he losses every extension that was transformed into root. Now you can argue that once transformed, the extensions becomes renewable (as in your example with lizards), but this only strengthens the point - extensions are jutsu, and the can be "cancelled" whenever he wants without harming his body as if they were his real body part.Faust-RSI (talk) 15:03, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then, that would mean that it was the real White Zetsu that was killed at Mountain's Graveyard which would explain a fair amoutn. However I think that we should at least wait for a better explanation of the extensions or image where we can see that they're gone entirely before adding something like that.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:12, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's pretty clear neither White, nor Black Zetsu will cancel it willingly, and in the picture of the death of that clone there wasn't a sign of cancelling :p Ok, let's wait.Faust-RSI (talk) 16:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

More Wood Release techniques
Since we now know that Zetsu can use Wood Release, can we classify Mayfly and Mayfly Communication Technique as Wood Release ninjutsu? 119.154.65.16 (talk) 05:46, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because we know he can use Wood Release? . There's also another discussion that took place about this already.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 09:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

White Zetsu's Death
In this page, the main white zetsu is mentioned as being stabbed by sasuke using a sword, wasn't it an arrow?--TricksterKing (talk) 20:58, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * blade, not sword. We dunno what is it exactly so it's being left "ambiguous"--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:02, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

His page is not yet updated, someone willing to do that and list him as dead ? --Elveonora (talk) 21:53, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * It already states that White Zetsu is dead. Since Zetsu has two sides you can't exactly list him as being deceased with Black Zetsu still alive. That's the best that can be done in the current situation.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:05, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

I always thought about black and white "Zetsu" as two separate characters ... but I guess ur right, it's simpliest this way. --Elveonora (talk) 22:07, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Black Zetsu has been pinned to the ground and can't move, similar to Hidan. Would it be inappropriate to list Zetsu as incapacitated? The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 00:11, February 16, 2012 (UTC))

Re: The Zetsu's status
So, since we have a little issue with Shiro Zetsu being dead and Kuro Zetsu being alive (at least for the time being, I was wondering if this revision (the status section) would be all-right with everyone. I know it's not what we regularly do, but given that we have no other way to deal with it unless we split the articles...--Cerez365™ 22:25, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think thats a fairly good idea, maybe needs something about the white zetsu army's status.--TricksterKing (talk) 22:37, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about Zetsu how or why would we put them in that infobox O.o?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:45, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

We've seen some of the army display a personality now that the original died, we still don't know how the original was made, so one of them could theoretically be white zetsu possessing the army, so unless all are dead, perhaps he hasn't died yet.--TricksterKing (talk) 22:54, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * They've displayed persona a long time before White Zetsu's death though. We're working with what is known instead of assumptions.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:00, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough.--TricksterKing (talk) 23:01, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

@white zetsu's status & chapter 574: on page 9, first panel, the white zetsu clone says nothing more than: (「お前・・・まさかボク達のオリジナルを・・・！！」, "omae... masaka boku tachi no orijinaru o...!!") ...so someting like (sorry for my poor japanese and english) "you... could it be that our original...!!". but it was not explicitly state that their original was killed, nor anything else was done to him. or is it crucial what happend in chapter 553 and that's the only reason for white zetsu's status? Johnny/ジョニー (talk)
 * We clearly saw Sasuke killing the White Zetsu that was in charge of looking after him. In this chapter, the White Zetsu practically says that the Zetsu watching Sasuke was the original. Even if for you that's not an explicit statement, listing White Zetsu as deceased would be the least speculative thing to do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * yeah, i see. i just wanted to make clear that in 574, there wasn't any mention by white zetsu clone about their original "being killed". Johnny/ジョニー (talk)

Since Black Zetsu is slashed in half and unable to move, would it be alright to put incapacitated instead of alive in his entry on the infobox? The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 01:31, March 4, 2012 (UTC))
 * Incapacitated is usually for more permanent states. Black Zetsu's not even unconscious. Chōjūrō just has him pinned down with Hiramekarei. For all we know that battle could still be waging on.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:48, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu's "background"
The part about being made from Hashirama's cells by Tobi and having access to Wood Release ... are they not talking just about Zetsu Clone Army ? We don't know if the original Zetsu possess Wood Relase and stating Tobi made him is kinda speculation. After Kabuto enhanced them with Yamato, their DNA became even more similar to 1st Hokage. Their DNA is like that of plants ... being like a plant does not mean to have Wood Release, Tobi is a proof of this since he has not yet shown any Wood Release power. Where I'm heading is that it's possible "White Zetsu" was a character before and he ended like that after experimentations on him with Hashirama's cells. The clone killed at the summit was made from Hashirama's Living Clone, but we don't know if the original Zetsu was as well.

This would mean there is no "original" White Zetsu since all of the clones are made the same way as him so "White Zetsu" is ... White Zetsus.

The way it's worded seems like White Zetsu was made just complete Black Zetsu. We don't know the origins neither of them, so please to re-word it a bit. --Elveonora (talk) 20:43, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 574 more or less confirmed that there is (was?) an original White Zetsu and that the army clones aren't related to the clones at the Kage Summit, since they were surprised to hear that the original might be dead and the half-faced ones that appeared after the summit were said to be controlled by the original. Which imples that the clone left at the summit was made of the same thing as the original was.--BeyondRed (talk) 02:30, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the clone at the summit was like the original ... not enhanced with Yamato like the "Clone Army" but that does not confirm he was created by Tobi, nor by someone. He could be a person before to begin with, that was experimented upon ... thus we don't know what the background/s of "Zetsu" is/are. Just the way it's worded sounds too speculative, like if it was clearly stated in manga or something while it was not. --Elveonora (talk) 15:53, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Much better now, thanks Omni. --Elveonora (talk) 16:47, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Update: From what I understood of the latest episode, only the Zetsu Clone Army enhanced with Yamato has Wood Release. --Elveonora (talk) 00:03, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * When was it said otherwise?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:26, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Should not we change the infobox then ? --Elveonora (talk) 13:02, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, it seems as though I misunderstood your previous post. Not too sure what bearing the anime has on stuff but from what I understood from the manga and what has been said before the White Zetsu Army clone's DNA was almost identical to that of Hashirama's from Shizune and Sakura autopsy. I don't think anything has changed since then.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:21, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Do we have a translation from ShounenSuki on this ? My points:
 * even if the "original" Zetsu Clone Army individual's DNA (before Yamato enhancement) is similar to Hashirama, still no proof that the original true Zetsu (we don't know if the original is black or white, they can be 2 different people, I don't believe they are just an experiment) has a Wood Release.


 * From what I understood, the original Zetsu Clone's DNA is like that of plants, and after Yamato enhancement they have gained Wood Release.

Kinda confused with these, each translation says it a bit differently and even recent anime episode made it sound that way that I do interpret it.
 * On what kind of clone the autopsy was being done ?

So, do we have enough evidence to state the original White or Black Zetsus have Wood Releas and are made/created of Hashirama's matter ? Can't Zetsu be similar to Yamato to begin with, humans being experimented on ? --Elveonora (talk) 13:57, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

The fact that the Black Zetsu, which was never stated to have been enhanced by Yamato, leads credence to the thought that he...it could already use Wood Release. And if I remember correctly, Sakura said "Their DNA is even more like teh 1st Hokage's than before. I'm certain they're using Captain Yamato to increase their fighting capacity" Skitts (talk) 14:02, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I also remember reading many things, the most precise translation would be appreciated --Elveonora (talk) 14:15, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Unamed Technique
Zetsu was shown to use a unamed technique where he manipulates roots from his body that go into the ground and then reach out towards beneath the target and rising up to entangle them. Exact chapter and 562 page 9. should a page be made for this and if so i think i have a good name for it called Kanuri which is the japanese translation for Wild vines. so what peoples oppinions of this matter? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 15:30, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure that counts as a technique, but even if it does, it received no name or description in Japanese, so it would be an unnamed technique with a place-holder name until it is named. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:36, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu's appearance in Part I
Should we count a 2 second glance over at the end of an episode as a real appearance ? I don't think we should in all honesty. --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:22, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * If that isn't an appearance, I'm not too sure what is...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:09, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because I don't believe that a 2 second appearance counts as a real appearance in the series. Zetsu mainly appears in Shippuden. The Part I section could be removed and just made one sentence before the arc stuff for Part II (like, Zetsu briefly appeared at the end of Episode 134 after having recorded and seen the whole battle between Naruto and Sasuke) --Speysider (Talk Page) 13:14, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Still an appearance, he even speaks there--Elveonora (talk) 14:17, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu History
According to the Zetsu page, Zetsu was created by Senju with genetic spore plant things, when was this revealed? And isn't possible this is just rumors reated by the naruto writers as usual? Like how thier was a controversy on Zetsu's white persona death, or is it that this character is teh only akatsuki character without much importance to the story line? Because that's unlikely considering that every akatsuki has a back story?--6th Mizukage (talk) 01:17, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Read topics above, I'm asking the same thing ... --Elveonora (talk) 01:20, May 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes but for now we don't know that it's not true. If that were the case then we should treat everything in the manga as a (possible) lie o.O? When it is revealed to be false it will be treated accordingly. I also don't really see the merit in saying "almost all Akatsuki members have a storyline so Zetsu must have one too" He more than likely does have one but that doesn't mean he wasn't grown in a petri dish. There might be a number of reasons why they've taken so long to give his background story.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 02:32, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes that does seem reasonable, it just seems with white zetsu dieing and all you'd think that the writers would give zetsu a good backstory and if not it would be kind of a waist of a good character.--6th Mizukage (talk) 22:06, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Assuming White Zetsu is in fact dead. You never know.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:09, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 526
Page 6, Black Zetsu demonstrated the ability to fuse with the land, but it seems he could also see through the environment as his eye became visible. Would this be considered the same as Mayfly or is it a different technique? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:01, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

It's mayfly--Elveonora (talk) 23:03, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I just find it peculiar that he specifically praised his (Black Zetsu's) powers, yet White Zetsu can use that technique too? Seems like he would've said "our" powers instead. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:09, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

It might originate from the black half, unless someone can provide a chapter page for white one using it alone. Makes you wonder why didn't they attack ambush style (clone army) from underground. But by the way... black/white Zetsus are considered as one entity, "Zetsu"--Elveonora (talk) 23:17, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

The article mentions that both halves can use Mayfly on their own. I feel like Black Zetsu's is a variant of the former technique in that he can use it to see and spy on people instead of simply using it for transportation. We've never seen White Zetsu have his eye visible like that when fused with the land. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:46, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

RRY? I must have missed it then. Well, what we know is listed so no speculations. We might not had seen everything Black Zetsu has to offer, we don't even know for sure if he/it is dead. What he does though pretty much fits the description of Mayfly, so I don't think eye being there is a brand new technique--Elveonora (talk) 02:52, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Orrr, Black Zetsu said my power because he was there alone. Had White Zetsu been there he would have said "our" O.o? Simple case of ownership.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:13, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

His background, again...
We had this convo many times before... how come could this guy have been created from Hashi's DNA and plants since he has "Blood Type: B" in his infobox? Can someone EXACTLY provide the line by Sakura or who stated that he has plant and Hashi DNA or something? That doesn't confirm any creation, there are things like enhancements in this manga.--Elveonora (talk) 02:05, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

just because he's made from plants and hashi's DNA doesnt mean he cant have a bloodtype, besides he was stated to have a bloodtype b as well as having been made from hashi's DNA plus plants, which is how it shall stay.98.26.245.37 (talk) 04:02, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

also jut so you know it was chapter 545 page 3 and 4.98.26.245.37 (talk) 04:06, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Again... she is talking about ZETSU ARMY CLONES. They are made from Hashi Plant Clone and later enhanced by Yamato, the one at the summit also was a clone (unless I'm mistaken)--Elveonora (talk) 14:30, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

zetsu's army clones were made from the original zetsu, thus a clone. also black zetsu was shown manipulating roots using wood release, so obviously the original zetsu has wood release. putting those two things together make t obvious that wood release was something zetsu already possessed and thus his clones did too.98.26.245.37 (talk) 14:42, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

"THe real white Zetsu" got killed by Sasuke, for what we know... in all the appearances with Black Zetsu, the white half could have been a clone from the army. Also what do you mean "thus a clone" ? I thought Zetsu Clone Army = Original White Zetsu + Hashirama Plant Clone flower, with Yamato they were enhanced. Also Zetsu's root abilities being Wood Release is still a speculation. There's simply no 100% confirmation of Zetsu being an made-up experiment and not a mutated person. Plants don't have blood. unless I'm mistaken, thus in my opinion the original white Zetsu being the one killed by Sasuke without the fly-trap extensions. We just don't know FORE SURE. --Elveonora (talk) 15:43, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

It was never stated that the army clones are related to the original Zetsu, just that they were made with plants and tailed beast chakra. They referred to white as "their original", but it could just be that they were created in his image. They definitely don't share a mental link with him the way his half-faced clones do.--BeyondRed (talk) 20:04, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

okay in what world is the root attack used by black zetsu not wood release? that was obviously wood relese, why do people think they need kishi to spoon feed them stuff abot the show? he uses wood release (definitly that was 100% without a doubt i would bet my life on it wood release), it was stated that the clones of zetsu (their his clones of course theyr related otherwise they wouldnt be clones, clones the word itself proves a great point), and by the way apearently if you actually read naruto and not some other manga, kabuto wanted zetsu speficaly for hashiramas genes in him. at a certain point in a long running series, the author expects the reader to make theyr own decison based on comen sense and what was previously stated in the series (unless it retconned, but until then) instead of having to explain stuff every single time. and when i said clone, i meant clone not in a clone technique sense but a genetic clone not bunshin jutsu but instead a copie of the original made from the genes of said original. um also if he was created by tobi or madara or whoever else then he could still bleed cause remember he was created, maybe they wanted him to bleed to fit his (half way) human-like apearence. and umm white zetsu clone zetsu - white zetsu, just the name shows relation in some way or another and also the face looks similar, besides who said that clones always share a mental link with the person who made them, and when did i ever even mention the original white zetsu being killed by sasuke, that right there is speculation since although it possible and it was implied by white zetsu's clones that the original (original-not real, notice the diference) had died.

also here are several ponits that imply zetsu's clone army being related to zetsu,
 * in chapter 512 page 6, tobi says (according to the viz translation) "kisames intel told us the alied shinobi forces are 80,000 strong and now we know their formation pattern. but the real key to our army is zetsu". notice how he said zetsu not plants or hashiramas genetic clone. kabuto then conitinud "i have the ability to make zetsu stronger... if you take me there (there being the gedo mazo thing)". why would they simply say zetsu instead of white zetsu or plants or hashiramas genetic clone.
 * chapter 515 page 8, kabuto said "jst dont kill him, okay? if you want to make the zetsu stronger." why would he lump zetsu and the zetsu army together by saying the zetsu? unless the zetsu is a new naruto species just doesnt make sense (sacrasm).

could someone else come in on this cause its getting so bothersome aurguing someone who is so obstinate and has to point out a little specific detail of something and even when theres proof for the oposition he has to just out speculation speculation speculation right after another even though zetsu actually showed it could use wood release he just says oh thats speculation. and finaly, when is zetsu ever seen bleeding? i dont remember him ever bleeding.98.26.246.122 (talk) 23:50, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

@beyond, you see. No proof of the original White One being a Hashi reject @other dude, Zetsu's techniques not being listed as Wood Release because it's not confirmed, but that's not what I'm discussing here. Kabuto wanted Zetsu for Hashirama's DNA? Orochimaru, and in that matter Kabuto already have it at their disposal. (Madara enhancement) etc. Now you are speculating on White Zetsu being alive/dead, sure not confirmed if the one killed by Sasuke was "real white zetsu" or "original clone zetsu" but for the time being, he is dead. Yes, "Zetsu" is also kind of term as well. Like saying "Zetsu" = may mean more Zetsus. Even if he meant the "original" then it's even less likely he has/had any Wood Release before the Yamato enhancement. Being a plantman and having plant-like abilities =/= necessary Wood Release or being related to Hashirama. That's it, we are yet to see Zetsu bleed other than sap, while the Databook says he is B-blood type--Elveonora (talk) 00:30, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

firstly im not speculating the real white zetsu being dead. in fact you brought it up. also not all of zetsus techniques are being listed as wood release. but if hes shown manipulating wood then its wood release thats not speculation thats common sense. he has hashirama's dna was stated by sakura to use wood release and even was shown manipulating wood. and also why does zetsu having blood matter, we dont even know if he was some por human tobi experimented on or if he was created by tobi. regardless this is going nowhere, your just going to keep throwing around the word speculation, and ive not the time nor the patience to deal with this any longer, ill let some else deal with you.98.26.246.122 (talk) 00:43, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

So a plantman has to have wood release in order to use something similar, the only thing close to manipulation is "communication technique" because I don't remember any other instance than this and clone army being turned into trees. And again, I'm reading ShounenSuki's translation: Shizune: "In other words… This… This is almost identical to the Shodai Hokage's individual make-up!" (「つまり…これ…初代火影の個人配列とほぼ変われなくなってる…やっぱりそうだったんだ!」) Akimichi: "What are you talking about?! What do those white things have to do with the Shodai Hokage?" (｢何の話だ!?この白いのと初代火影が何だって?｣) Sakura: "In short, the white guys are copies of the Shodai-sama! Or rather, judging by the numbers, they are moving clone plants, created by cultivating the Shodai-sama's cells and using plants as a medium! They may be weak, but they use Mokuton!" (｢つまりこの白い奴は初代火影様の分身体!というよりこの数からして初代様の細胞を培養し植物を媒体に造られた動くクローン植物って事!うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし!｣) Akimichi: "Hmmmm… Hn?! …I don't quite understand…!" (｢ん〰〰〰〰…ん!?…よく分からん…!｣) Sakura: "Anyhow… Judging from this data, Captain Yamato is also being used as a power-up for these guys!" (｢とにかく…このデータから見てヤマト隊長もこいつらのパワーアップに利用されているんだ!｣)
 * Sakura: "…It became even more similar to Captain Yamato than at the time of the Five Kage Summit!!" (｢…五影会談の時よりヤマト隊長に近くなってる!!｣)

The "Zetsu" killed at the Kage Summit could of have been from the clone army, not a "clone" like a clone technique of the original one. Thus already made from Hashi's DNA+ plants. The army obviously has Wood Release, but there's no proof the one killed by Sasuke, presumed as the real one had such. For what we know, "White Zetsu" could be the PLANTS part, not Hashi's DNA part. And that's exactly why it does matter, we don't know if he wasn't a human that was being experimented upon, plants don't have blood. Not to mention, the one killed by Sasuke doesn't have the fly-trap stuff and DOES HAVE fingernails.--Elveonora (talk) 02:19, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

um are you reading the same manga? the root thing i was talking about was in chapter 562 page 9, he was clearing manipulating roots that looked like wood that were coming from his body. that is the wood release i was talking about.98.26.246.122 (talk) 02:33, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * still no proof of it being a wood release
 * the topic is about origins of white half, the black one is even more of a mystery--Elveonora (talk) 02:41, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

how is that not wood release? it looks just like how yamato makes wood from his body. whatever. for now we just have to go based on what we'v seen and been told, that means he was made fomr hashi's cells and he has a blood type, going any further would simply be too much speculation.98.26.246.122 (talk) 02:48, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Whatever, I'm gonna make an edit, if some people don't like it, reverse it back.--Elveonora (talk) 02:53, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

fair trade i geuss, considering that its a very confusing topic.98.26.246.122 (talk) 03:16, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

I have worded it so it's less speculative and the meaning doesn't change much, hopefully it's alright.--Elveonora (talk) 03:31, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Wow this blew up, but I'd like to point out, when this was added I was also confused but from the translation you pasted Elveonora, I believe it was added because of what Sakura said. It would seem that the medics got their hands on the clone left at the summit and ran diagnostics on it.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:11, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but what kind of clone was it at the summit? Clone like from the army, or a technique? Even if the latter, we don't know if the true white Zetsu had created it. --Elveonora (talk) 18:01, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Besides the fact that it didn't look like one of them, I highly doubt it was a clone from the army, why would he have used one of those? It seemed like a regular clone of White Zetsu.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:07, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Parasite Clones don't have flytraps, but it wasn't the original as that one is presumed to have been killed by Sasuke (and pointing again, he had no flytraps for some reason and had fingernails) thus I guess Tobi sent one from the army to the summit (before Yamato enhancement)--Elveonora (talk) 18:45, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Who is to say the really in fact can't have flytraps or that it was a Parasite clone? I don't recall them saying Zetsu was limited to one type of clone. The differenes between that clone and the army clone is way too vast for you to be assuming it's an army clone. You don't see any of the clones from the army (who have complete bodies) with flytrap extensions like Zetsu has.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:50, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

AND that's why it's so confusing and it's an issue... what it does mean: But that would mean he was pretty dumb to go there to get himself killed, so unlikely. You choose, 2 issues we have now, if White Zetsu is alive or dead, and being made or not from Hashi. To solve the latter, we have to find an answer for the former. So again: Logically, before the Yamato enhancement the original army had the same DNA as the summit Zetsu.
 * the real white zetsu was indeed killed by Raikage and the one by Sasuke was a Parasite Clone/Advanced Shadow Clone/other kind of a technique clone.
 * there is another variation of Parasite Clone with flytraps
 * Summit Zetsu = plants + Hashi cells
 * Army Zetsu = plants + Hashi cells and Yamato's DNA
 * The White Zetsu Army turned into trees when in contact with Naruto's "purified" Kyubi chakra, while Black Zetsu didn't. Both army and black one have Wood Release
 * The one that died at hands of Sasuke appears to have nails (at least to me) white white zetsu was noted to not have any (in the manga)
 * "Zetsu" blood type (presumably of both white and black) is B
 * Yamato has an A
 * Hashirama's unknown

There are so many questions unanswered and we know so little of Zetsu that I think there shouldn't even be the "background" section.--Elveonora (talk) 19:12, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Very little is known about Zetsu's origins, except that at some point, at least part of him was cultivated by the harvesting of some of the Hashirama Senju's cells. At some point, when Akatsuki was established, Zetsu joined and functioned as their hunter-nin and spy.


 * There is no reason for a character to not have a background section. What I posted above tells us exactly what we do know of it. At some point, he was "created", joined Akatsuki, and was their spy and hunter-nin. I'm not sure what the rest of this discussion was for, but this is all we know of his background.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:20, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Now that it was reworded a little, it doesn't sound like it's 100% confirmed that Zetsu is/was a plant given life by Hashi's cells. I just don't want a speculation for some character to have a not-so-clear information being listed as something confirmed. It should at least have: "Warning: This article or section may possibly contain misleading information and all the information in the article cannot be vouched for 100%. Please refer to the article's talk page for more information" there. We don't know the origins of the summit clone, so it's just assuming it was the same as the original white one, thus plant + Hashi cells. Then there's blood type issue (I don't know biology) buy Yamato has an A so shouldn't Hashi has it as well? But Zetsu has "B" not to mention we are yet to see any Zetsu bleed blood, and we don't even know for sure if he is alive or not--Elveonora (talk) 19:39, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * A Warning is also unnecessary. We know Zetsu applied clones before and during the Summit. There was like 8 of them during the Team Kakashi Reunion. All we just need to do is revise his background and really that's it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:53, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

So do you find the way the information is listed and worded as alright? What about his status? The majority takes him as dead, but what about no flytraps? Also "Zetsu" (both) are being taken as one entity, but does the white one has Wood Release or just Black? Not talking about army. If you see and understand any of these issues in this topic, what are your suggestions? Some changes or let it be for the time being till new information surfaces?--Elveonora (talk) 22:45, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Based on what those White Zetsu said when Sasuke slaughtered them, the original White Zetsu, which this article cares about got nuked, so that one is dead. The Black Zetsu is currently pinned to the dirt by Chichiro of however you spell his name so he's still alive. Pretty straight forward. White Zetsu has Wood Release as he was made with plant matter and First Hokage cells, according to Tobi. Basically what we are already told I'm confused as to where the problem is.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 23:50, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

By the way, I can't see his/their status in the infobox, not sure if it's due to the bug/glitch but I didn't see it either before it got broken. That's where I see a problem.
 * I agree, the one killed by Sasuke was the original, however there were no flytraps, but maybe I'm seeing too much in that.
 * Isn't it also reasonable to say that Black Zetsu is dead as well? Or at least incapacitated Like a lot of chapters were released since then, and the Ninja Alliance is moving from place to place, and it appears as all battlefields are clear now, with Edo Tensei released like no fighting anymore (maybe except for the clone army) so that's why I'm speculating on that one.
 * lol at "Chichiro"
 * Are you sure that "White Zetsu" was made from Plants + Hashi and not just the Summit clone and the Army?
 * Logically speaking, since (just) Black Zetsu was seen using Wood Release, shouldn't it state that he also (presumably) is a result of Hashi experimentation?
 * I don't want to speculate, but judging by the chapter in which Tobi first appeared, it didn't look like they know each other, even calling Tobi an idiot, so how could the latter create the former?
 * Right, the army clones have full bodies, the one at the summit didn't, but had flytrap that parasite clones weren't seen with.
 * Even if the original white one had wood release, it's still not proof enough of being a plant given life by Hashirama's DNA, and not just some human that was being experimented on.
 * Yamato has an A blood type (so shouldn't Hashirama has it as well? @Omni, can you please explain?) but Zetu has B, that's why I'm speculating on him being his own person like born, not a walking flower.--Elveonora (talk) 00:18, August 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1)Perhaps you are. The one Sasuke nuked only had one eye, that's enough for me.
 * 2)Incapacitated.
 * 3)Appearances. Considering the lengths he would go to lie to the world, he is one to be very, very keen to keeping up appearances.
 * 4)I'm not sure what you mean about the Summit Clone and the Army.
 * 5)The clones during the Summit where all part of Parasite Clones. Enough to explain their differences from the Zetsu Army.
 * 6)The proof is that Tobi told us how White Zetsu came into being. We don't know anything about Black Zetsu other than he is "land itself".
 * 7)Correct me if I'm wrong, but being injected with DNA does not change ones blood type.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 00:38, August 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) Right
 * 2) Right
 * 3) Right
 * 4) The summit parasite clones ones used by the original White Zetsu and not an army clone, you say? It/he looked differently that army clone but wasn't the original for sure as that was killed by Sasuke, see what I mean?, and sounds weird for a parasite clone to create more parasite clones.. or not?
 * 5) Ok
 * 6) When? 0_o thought it was Sakura/Shizune
 * 7) I guess it does, blood type even change after bone marrow transplants, so I don't see why it shouldn't after applying more and other than blood cells into a body or even merger of DNA.--Elveonora (talk) 01:14, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Clones have shown the ability to use the techniques of their real counterpart. Why should this clone be any different? Though this whole White Zetsu issue needs to be sorted out, there is no way that the clone at the Summit was a clone from the army, their appearances are worlds apart. The next issue is whether or not it was in fact a clone or White Zetsu pretending to be dead- that's always a possibility. That would mean that when White Zetsu left, the thing they experimented on were the spore clones which would still land us at the same conclusion, White Zetsu's DNA is somehow similar to that of Hashirama's.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:04, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Jutsu
Im thinking we should possibly list on the Jutsu pages which specific side of him uses the Jutsus. (obviously it will redirect to the singular "Zetsu" article). and possibly list in parenthesis on the Zetsu page which side uses each Jutsu (or at least ones we know are exclusive to each side). Anyone else agree?--72.201.75.108 (talk) 04:15, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should treat both halves as separate entities, because it's not the same case as Sakon&Ukon as they were identical brothers... these two are kinda different--Elveonora (talk) 04:36, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Would anybody else support this? Unlike the twins, both sides of Zetsu have shown distinct abilities, Mayfly aside. White has clones, substitute, and spores, whilst black has his root technique, sensing, and "recording".--BeyondRed (talk) 06:12, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Yea, Totally the two sides are much diffrent in jutsu and Personality they should be treated as seprate entities, i agree.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 06:24, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. I don't believe there's any need to split up their techniques nor treat them as separate entities. In the first place we don't even know if it will render in their joint infobox when you do that, and I don't see listing the one person as a user causing any issues. The same thing is done for Sakon and Ukon, I don't see why Zetsu should be different just because they act independently at times.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 09:34, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Friends?
The newest added information claims that White Zetsu and Obito were friends. I checked the latest chapter couple of times, but I see no indication of this. Obito surely was friends with a swirl-patterned guy (Tobi?), but his relationships with White Zetsu were rather formal.Faust-RSI (talk) 12:40, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Surely friends/partners, they knew each other for like 20 years--Elveonora (talk) 13:37, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * They do seem more than formal. Not even counting their later relationship. He did rush back to tell him his friends were in danger.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:42, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

"Partner" and "Friend" are entirely different things :) Obito obviously expressed his "warm" feelings to the swirly one, but I can't see the same for White Zetsu. I agree though that White Zetsu himself was very friendly with Obito. But this is more because of his personality, not because Obito expressed something similar. Also, compare how Swirly and White Zetsus express their feelings on page 10. The White Zetsu's reaction is rather moderate.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:51, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Family
Since all the Zetsu(s) come from the Hashirama clone, doesn't that mean they are all related in a way, like brothers?

My Quote
Was it deleted specifically because I added no citations or simply because it was considered irrelevant? Mostly addressed at X29. I thought it relevant simply because the saying "Tobi is a good boy" is popular with fans. I would like some explanation if nothing else.--50.15.82.214 (talk) 09:51, October 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * That phrase is popular, however, it doesn't define Zetsu as a character. I'd assume that's why it was removed. You can see the quote policy for more.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:11, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

His Clan
Shouldn't Zetsu be classified as a Member of the Senju clan since he was created from The First Hokage's DNA? Also should Madara Uchiha be placed as his "Creator" where the parent section is concerned I mean he is in a way Zetsu's "father". Though if we go that far he may as well be added to the Uchiha clan(granted if that were the case he and Spiral Zetsu would probably be Uchiha in name only) which confuses and gives me a headache.MrAnonymous (talk) 09:42, October 17, 2012 (UTC)MrAnonymous
 * No.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:50, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

What kind of logic is that? Then Kakashi is an Uchiha...--Elveonora (talk) 15:44, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Separation
I think after the latest chapter we should discuss the separation of the article (to Black Zetsu and White Zetsu) again. Black Zetsu is revealed to be completely different essence than White Zetsu, he is Madara's clone created via Onmyōton while White Zetsu is Hashirama's clone created via Mokuton. They have different personalities and origins, their only common thing is ability to merge into one body.Faust-RSI (talk) 15:40, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * If Madara never separated them, why should we? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:47, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez, the white was there before the black has been created, thus we should do some kind of separation in their article at least, like Kamui has (Kakashi/Obito)--Elveonora (talk) 15:56, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ukon was born before Sakon, yet their articles aren't separated are they? I'm against separating their articles because the two operate as a single being most of the time. The information in the article isn't overbearing or confusing so I don't see the need to separate the information. Also Faust-RSI, all the clones were created using Yin-Yang Release from what I understand: one from the statue the other from the clone, it's just that White Zetsu was created first, there is no difference between the two. I really don't see one good reason to separate the articles, simply because they can split themselves. In that case we should create one for Mū's "clone".--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:05, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, meant separate background/personality/abilities/other stuff sections, not 2 articles for them--Elveonora (talk) 16:09, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

Since they work as a single entity most of the time, it might be best to keep the sections on their background and role in the story as a single section. The same goes for their appearance, since splitting them would basically mean describing a lot of the same things twice. Their abilities, however, may be a different story. Other than Mayfly, which all of their kind can use, the two haven't really displayed any shared abilities. Their abilities section could be split into two the way most articles are split into sections for nature transformation, kekkei genkai, etc.--BeyondRed (talk) 18:08, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Would this work for a reorganised version of the abilities section?--BeyondRed (talk) 21:08, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think that's how it should be, but also a separate background since their "birth" differ--Elveonora (talk) 23:56, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

1. Yes, Madara never separated them, though this is irrelevant, all of the most important, final arc, they were separated. 2. Ukon and Sakon never acted as separate entities, yet BZ and WZ did. Also, their significance is incomparable with that of Zetsu. 3. It was never mentioned WZ was created using Yin-Yang Release, moreover, it is strongly implied it has Yang release only, as seen when Zetsus abnormally react to Naruto's chakra. Moreover, WZ is Hashi's clone, while BZ is basically Madara, I don't know why you ignore that. And this is HUGE difference. I don't see how it is even possible to compare them to Muu's jutsu.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:45, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * In the most recent chapter, Madara told Obito that the beings created through Yin-Yang Release could be used as his pawns, implying that it was used to create the white clones as well. As for completely splitting the article, it could lead to problems on other pages; mentions of Zetsu acting as a single entity on other pages would have to link to one side or the other. Black Zetsu's creation can be explained within a single sentence and he remained merged with White Zetsu for a while after that, so their background section works fine as it is, although the part about Black Zetsu's creation is currently out of order. The abilities section could definitely be separated though, as previously mentioned.--BeyondRed (talk) 06:57, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sakon and Ukon have acted independently, they've split up as well.
 * How much significance a character holds for you is insignificant to the discussion, and not a valid reason. We're supposed to be neutral.
 * The Zetsu clones were all created from Yin-Yang Release. They react poorly to Naruto full-on Yang-natured chakra because of their genetic makeup. They're vegetation, the Yang-natured chakra is simply activating them. What is happening to them is no different than Danzō's arm turning into a tree.
 * I'm not ignoring anything. You seem however to be willing to just look past the fact that they're a single entity, that just happen to be able to split and act independently to split their articles for no good reason.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:59, October 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * They have, for one battle, hundreds chapter ago. Zetsus did this recently in the most important chapters of this manga. Sakon's and Ukon's significance is almost zero, BZ and WZ have connections to all the most important events of this manga. So no, it is not my personal opinion in any way, it is what this manga shows us thus your comment is no relevant and makes no sense.


 * My mistake, they did, though one clearly represents Uchiha and Yin while other Senju and Yang. Though this is not the point. The point is that WZ is Hashirama's clone while BZ is not.
 * They are not single entity in any way, did you miss the part where WZ was existing for-hell-knows-how-long before BZ was even born? Being able to merge don't make them one. There are more characters that are able to merge, but only Sakon and Ukon share the article, even bijuus have their own pages.Faust-RSI (talk) 19:14, October 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm also for a split in the articles. As far as Zetsu is concerned, Black Zetsu and White Zetsu were created for two completely different purposes using two completely different methods, Black Zetsu has been shown to do things that White Zetsu cannot, they aren't as dependent of each other as we originally thought either. They have different personalities, backgrounds, that kind of thing. Comparing them to Sakon and Ukon is not even applicable. Both White and Black Zetsu have spent a considerable amount of time separate (all the time before Black Zetsu was born, and during most of this Shinobi World War arc). While Sakon and Ukon were shown to separate, we don't know anything about their pasts, or what they're like when they are apart for significant amounts of time. Furthermore, we don't know if they have the exact same abilities, or have different abilities than each other. We do know all these things about the two Zetsu. If, at some point, we learn all of this about Sakon and Ukon, I'd be for splitting them too, but in this case, I think a split is necessary. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:38, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * They've spent more chronological time together, but as far as on-panel, shown time goes, they haven't separated for that much time, and they didn't do much by themselves after splitting. And even considering the things that they did do after splitting, they spend much more time staying put than actually doing stuff. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:02, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Regardless, we have more than enough material to classify them as separate characters. I find it extremely unnecessary to lump them all together when we have so much unique information on their individual selves. They aren't even collectively referred to as "Zetsu" anymore. They haven't been since earlier in Shippuden. They've been referred to as Black Zetsu and White Zetsu for quite some time. I think we have enough to warrant two articles. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:15, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Edit: Also, should we decide to split them, we could make "Zetsu" a disambiguation to link to all the different Zetsu incarnations, since the term "Zetsu" now applies to Black and White Zetsu, Spiral Zetsu, the White Zetsu Army, and the like. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 21:19, October 27, 2012 (UTC)

There is no need to split Zetsu. Up until this current arc, there was only Zetsu, with Black and White personality. Them separating into two physical forms. As mentioned before, that would be like separating Sakon and Ukon which would result in two articles with the exact same information for the majority of the page.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:52, October 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Ultimate, there would not. For Sakon and Ukon, that might be the case, but regarding the two Zetsu, there are ample amounts of information amount both to give them completely unique articles. Black and White Zetsu, as a single entity, didn't make too many appearances before this arc. Their plot sections prior to the Five Kage Summit arc is mediocre at best. Its not like they made a ton of appearances as one being. I'm sorry, but, given the unique nature of their creation, the fact that they were created separately, have different personalities, different purposes, and even, in some cases, different abilities, makes it perfectly legitimate. White Zetsu is even dead, at this point. So you're telling me we're gonna keep adding stuff for just Black Zetsu now to this article? Makes no sense. For the last two or three arcs they haven't been merged. At all. There is no legitimate reason to keep them together. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:23, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

Separation is the most logical thing to do, I don't see why some people disagree.--Elveonora (talk) 01:27, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have created two sandboxes; Black Zetsu and White Zetsu. That should serve to demonstrate how different each article can be. It has different information specific to that Zetsu, illustrates their ability differences, even their plot section focuses solely on their actions when they act alone. The only thing that is exactly the same on both articles is the "Creation and Conception" and the "Trivia". Even the quotes are different. I believe this proves we can make them unique articles. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:08, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good work, I'm all for making those sandbox articles into the ground for the separate BZ and WZ articles. The only arguments opponents have all sound like "I'm too lazy to do this, this is too much work, let's better do nothing", sorry, but this is how it looks like Faust-RSI (talk) 11:31, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm gonna wait for one more person to chime in and then we'll go from there. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:52, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't see the benefit from splitting the article. Even the databook didn't bother splitting the profile between WZ and BZ. I don't see the cost/benefit in doing the split. Besides, changing all the links to BZ and WZ isn't something that can simply be done with a bot. The article as is is perfectly capable of informing everything there is to know about Zetsu, B&W. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:09, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * The databooks have nothing to do with this. When the last databook came out, Zetsu had not been split up for two arcs. You can bet the next databook will have them separated, as it has now been revealed that they have different origins and different purposes. As the sandboxes I created show, they even have different abilities and Black Zetsu is more of a fighter, while White Zetsu, as Obito mentioned, is not a "front line" fighter. They're different in numerous ways. They even have different personalities. As I said before, if Sakon and Ukon had displayed this many differences and this much independence from one another, as Black and White Zetsu have, I'd be asking for them to split too. If its really just the links you're worried about, there are editors that are more than willing to do that. But really, I and others see it as a necessity. They're too different to keep on the same article. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:16, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * There is no benefit in splitting the pages. You say it is nothing like Sakon and Ukon, but fail to say how it is so. For the overwhelming majority of the series there has only been Zetsu. Hell, even splitting they've done nothing that warrants the articles being split. There is nothing that requires this page to be split.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:27, October 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hell, even your proposal pages feed into my argument. Both the articles are practically the same.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:30, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I told you how it was different from Sakon and Ukon. Sakon and Ukon appeared for less than half an arc. There is no information on their background, they have the exact same abilities and even similar personalities. Not the case here with these two. Funny, because if you look up, you'll see these explanations two or three times. Secondly, yes there is everything to requite these pages being split. They have different personalities, different origins, different purposes, different abilities, and besides that, the only argument we seem to be getting from you, just like with the Obito and Tobi split, is "its too much work". Also, looking back over my proposals, I see numerous differences, particularly in the background and abilities sections, as well as towards the arcs in which they become more prominent as separate characters. They're two completely different people. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:38, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * And their articles will be get this 80% the same (yes I pulled a number out my bum). Look at the current article and the two proposals you wrote up. At most the only noticeable difference is they are separate (obviously) and alot of uses of "both Zetsu". There is no logical reason to split a page if the information is just go in to be repeated in another with 1 or 2 words changed in a attempt to make it different. There is nothing wrong with the current set up, and splitting them will cause more problems than solve because there was nothing to solve.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:44, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * logic full of win, White&Black Zetsu have a single common article, while "Spiral Zetsu" has his own. We either include all "Zetsus" in one or keep each separated if different enough--Elveonora (talk) 19:04, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Completely agreed. Sorry, Ultimate, but your logic makes zero sense. There is ample material to make two separate articles and there should be two separate articles. They are two unique characters and, especially now, with White Zetsu dead and their inability to rejoin, its important that we emphasize the differences in their characters. My sandboxes were just examples of how it could be done. Once we actually get to doing it, the final result will be much different than those sandboxes. Unless you can give us all a reason other than "too much work" or Sakon and Ukon, which aren't even comparable cases, then you really have no basis for stopping the split of the article. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 19:19, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Spiral Zetsu for most of the series didn't exist, and other than a common origin, shares nothing with the B&W Zetsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:21, October 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Omni is correct on Spiral Zetsu. Save common origin, nothing is similar and his page ends where it does. No matter how you say it, the information will be the same, if only different because it was worded differently to make it different. You can ignore it all you want, but to split a page into two when most of the information will be similar is pointless.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:29, October 28, 2012 (UTC)

TheUltimate3, you are completely unfair to the sandbox articles. They are only examples, and they were created by one man, he did it all alone. You can't demand perfection from them, the good content will be created by the community. Developing those pages will obviously drop your "80%" down. But they will never be 100% different, though only few articles here have 100% unique content, you can't avoid interdependencies among different characters.Faust-RSI (talk) 09:03, October 29, 2012 (UTC)

Madara Uchiha
Shouldn't Madara Uchiha be put as Creator in the Family? Or the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path? Since we are including others in Zetsu's family branch50.9.79.129 (talk) 19:10, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

"father" ? :O--Elveonora (talk) 00:35, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. Though something besides 'father'... lol Skarrj (talk) 09:12, October 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Clones don't usually get relations to people, the living clone is still its genetic source at least physically. What would be put there anyway, "will giver"? It's not really necessary to draw a line to Madara in this case.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:36, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Abilities
As with the newest manga, Dream World 606, Black Zetsu is a portion of Madara's will. In the abilities section it says black zetsu has the ability to record things such as battles and 'show' these recordings to Tobi. In manga 604 White zetsu says he can telepathically communicate with his clones. I'm not sure if this is evidence enough but it's apparent to me at least that black zetsu is watching the battles, gives the memory to White zetsu (because they are able to share a body) and White Zetsu transmits the memory to the part of Tobi's body that was made from Hashirama's cells.
 * Or maybe Obito uses the Sharingan to view the memories. It's all speculation either way. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:51, October 18, 2012 (UTC)