Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-31099706-20170327120301/@comment-31338621-20170425160915

CyberianGinseng wrote: Namikazenaruto9 wrote: I thought Watered down Tsukuyomi meant lesser time dilation. 1 sec being equivalent to a week is a weaker Tsukuyomi than one in which 1 sec of real world is equivalent to a year in genjutsu I read through most arguments and I quit agree with most of them as they all fit in the scenario. But here are a few conclusion I have made: Non Uchiha can't even hope to survive this genjutsu. Most of the non uchihas would be dead if they get hit by it. They won't escape no matter what if they get caught.(think abt hashirama, tobirama etc) Even among the uchihas most won't break, as the required condition was to be close relative. Even if we take EMS madara its highly unlikely he would be able to break it on his first try though perhaps he might become resistant to it on subsequent attempts like sasuke. "Same blood" does not refer to a close family member. It refers to Uchiha blood. We know this because Itachi was talking about Uchiha blood when he says "we are the true masters of the Sharingan." right before his statement about "same blood," meaning he is clearly putting all Uchiha's in the same category as himself. Kakashi tells Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes because, "only another person with a Sharingan can probably fight with his." Kakashi is clearly talking about himself, not an Uchiha at all. By saying "that is true (meaning Kakashi's claim about himself) only another Sharingan user (Kakashi or someone like him) could challenge me... some resistance could be made to this Mange Sharingan... Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me," Itachi addresses Kakashi's claim, meaning Itachi is talking about Kakashi, not any Uchiha at all. He never says "close relative." He only says "same blood," meaning "our blood" as he mentioned moments before, meaning "Uchiha blood," nothing else. BrainBrand wrote: Ravenlot 27 wrote: As I and some other people already said, Sasuke could've used the time manipulation aspect to his advantage, breaking Tsukuyomi from inside out, which didn't allow it to run in his head for an extended period of time, i.e. he could've broken it for 1/some of a minute in a real time while it was some minute within the Tsukuyomi time. Kakashi indicated that the opposite was true. Kakashi said

"He uses mangekyou sharingan. It's more powerful than the original sharingan. If you're caught by his ocular jutsu, he has you instantly. It has nothing to do with whether you can defeat genjutsu or not." BrainBrand wrote: So Itachi said Tsukuyomi can't be broken and Kakashi implied it was useless to attempt it. Only way you could believe this is if you totally ignored the context of the conversation. Chiyo was specifically talking about a situation where there were two people: one who got caught and one to break him out. She says, "If it's one on one, surely flee. If it's two on one, take the rear... Even if that's impossible, they can help their partner by cancelling the genjutsu themselves." She's not even talking about a situation where someone caught in a genjutsu is trying to break out of it, only the one where their partner breaks them out of it.

Kakashi then remarks specifically on the situation that Chiyo was talking about by saying, "Well, that's (meaning what Chiyo just said) alright for a normal genjutsu level, but in this case... it will be a little more trouble. He uses an eye jutsu that surpasses the original Sharingan, the Mangekyou Sharingan. If you are struck by that eye jutsu, his genjutsu can affect you in an instant. There is no cancelling the effects of it." In other words, he's telling them that Chiyo's strategy will not work. He isn't even talking about anything else.

And not only that, but Kakashi intentionally reveals to Itachi that he himself has acquired the Mangekyou Sharingan. He does this by asking Itachi about his macular degeneration, lol. Itachi is like Dafuq? "Kakakashi-san... impossible, you..." Itachi now knows Kakashi has Mangekyou and is shocked as hell that a non-uchiha could do that.

Kakashi then says, "Well! Last time I was unprepared," (meaning he didn't have Mangekyou before) "but I'm not like that this time. This won't go the same way it did last time." (meaning now I have Mangekyou and you can't do to me what you did before) In the context of the conversation, Kakashi is clearly stating Mangekyou can fight Mangekyou.

The context of the situation did not imply that Kakashi was talking only about Chiyo's methods of breaking genjutsu. What Kakashi and Chiyo said is similar to this:

Chiyo: if we stab his armor with this technique he'll go down

Kakashi: In this case that won't work. He uses a superior armor to the original. It doesn't matter what technique you use, they won't work on it.

Like I illustrated above Kakashi said in a general sense, not in a specific sense that cancelling the effects will not work. He may of started of talking specifically about specific methods, but then he moved to general methods. If he meant Chiyo's method were the only ones that won't work he could of said "His genjutsu is instant, those methods will not work." Instead of "His genjutsu is instant, there is no cancelling the affects of it."

Kakashi having the MS actually supports my point. Kakashi fought without looking in the eye despite having MS. Kakashi didn't think his MS could defeat Tsukuyomi.