Talk:Sage Mode

Sage Mode and Sage Transformation
Heya, I recently read db4's article on Jugo again and I'm thinking we should kinda do something about the two articles, Sage Mode and Sage Transformation. This is based on two things: In Jugo's db4 article, it says "Taking in the natural energy that's overflowing the earth, he turns into a brutal 'sage'" and in the Konoha Hundred Leafs box in db4, it says "In Jugo's village, the state after invoking the power of Senjutsu is referred to as 'Sage Transformation'". I'm not sure if simply merging them would be the best thing to do, though. What y'all think? Also, it was made pretty clear that Orochimaru was also able to use senjutsu chakra, just not turn into a perfect sage, as Kabuto said. This should definitely be reflected somewhere here. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:48, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok. But I have a doubt, I think that the "Sage Trasformation" is the name of Jūgo's Clan's Kekkei Genkai u.u .--Sharingan91 (talk) 15:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * That's not true, as you can see from the second quote. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:39, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, I think I understand. So Senjutsu used through KG is called Sage transformation, while Senjutsu used through training is called Sage mode. It's best to combine everything in one single article.--Sharingan91 (talk) 16:04, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sage Mode and Sage Transformation is the same thing, just two different names. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:13, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, Jugo's ability obviously works another way around than a usual SM, so it still wouldn't be correct to call both the same thing, and should the merger happen, ST deserves at least a separate section. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 16:22, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * But the databook did call them the same thing. Of course they would still get their separate sections. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:27, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm personally against it. I'm finding it too convenient that the two jutsu being the same came up just now and not, let's say, two years ago or so, but maybe I'm just imagining things. As for why I'm against it: Sage Transformation is a Kekkei Genkai (or, at the very least, a technique that is only available to those with Jūgo's DNA, meaning that it's a technique available only through a certain Kekkei Genkai), and Sage Mode is not.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 18:07, June 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Why convenient, though? Did something happen the last few days that relates to Sage Mode/Sage Transformation?
 * Sage Transformation being accessible through a kekkei genkai and Sage Mode not does not mean that it's not the same. Just two different means to reach the same outcome. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:21, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

I thought this was old knowledge, I have said the very same thing long time ago, yet everyone disagreed, but suddenly it's the truth 'shakes head' Sage Transformation IS Sage Mode, but it's also more. In other words, when one with Jugo's KKG uses Sage Mode, a physical transformation also occurs because of special body fluids, which trigger a physical transformation, hence the different name for the same feat. The physical transformation doesn't really make it a different jutsu, since it's only a side effect. Shortly said, all Sage Transformation users are by default Sage Mode users.--Elve Talk Page 10:36, June 5, 2017 (UTC)


 * I just want to point out, that taking Sage Mode, then adding body fluids into to make them mutate, does turn it into something else. It stops being "Just gathering Natural Energy" into "Gathering natural energy + bodily fluids that mutate". In regards to the articles themselves, aside from specifying that Sage Transformation is basically "Sage Mode on Bodily Fluids", there isn't much else that needs to be done. Because other wise, we end up getting into that stupid argument about what classifies a Sage again.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 11:20, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no stupid argument about that, I think? A sage is someone who can use Senjutsu, a perfect sage is someone who can use Sage Mode/Sage Transformation. But as I said above, I'm not even sure if merging the articles is the best way to handle all this... • Seelentau 愛 議 11:45, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Then like I said, the simplest solution would just be to specify in the Sage Mode article, that when members of a certain clan uses Sage Mode their bodies produce special fluids which mutate their bodies, thus 'Sage Transformation', while in the Sage Transformation article note that this is the result of the certain clan using Sage Mode, which mutates because of their fluids.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 12:24, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Semi-offtopic question, why doesn't Orochimaru classify as a Sage then, since Jugo does according to DB4 despite his 'sagehood' being made much easier thanks to his powers?--Elve Talk Page 18:49, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * If we go by Kabuto's distinction, Orochimaru is indeed a sage. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:10, June 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * The only thing potentially going against Sage Transformation and Sage Mode being the same thing is that there's still the possibility that "Senninka" is a blanket term for all senjutsu-empowered states whereas Sage Mode is just one specific kind of state taught by the toads and snakes. And those DB4 characteristics really shouldn't be used as the basis for anything, they're so wrong that Kabuto is literally missing 3 characteristics in his profile. On a related note, is this also the time to bring back up the fact that no non-human sages are ever said to be using "Sage Mode" in the manga and DB3 only listed Jiraiya as a user?--BeyondRed (talk) 02:53, June 6, 2017 (UTC)