Talk:Hokage

????????????????
"His wife named Uzumaki Kushina with the red-long hair.- oleh COBEBUBE" What was that? --Narutodude (talk) 04:38, September 24, 2009 (UTC)Narutodude
 * That was vandalism. When you see something like that, feel free to remove it..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 07:03, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

I knew that. Just didn't know who did that. So I waited --Narutodude (talk) 22:08, September 24, 2009 (UTC)Narutodude

Trivia
Hiruzen himself says that there's a soul bound to Orochimaru's Edo Tensei technique that doesn't belong to those he resurrected, so the First and Second Hokage are obviously not trapped within the Death God, only Minato and the Third. Jules R. J. Blake (talk) 04:04, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * What? When? Where? --ShounenSuki (talk 08:21, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * During the Orochimaru vs. Hiruzen fight, when he was getting ready to use Shiki Fuujin. He said that he must do something about the souls bound to Edo Tensei. Jules R. J. Blake (talk) 08:30, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I cannot find any mention of the soul bound to the Edo Tensei summon not actually being that of the resurrected. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:39, November 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Jules R. J. Blake i think you might be thinking of when orochimaru was talking with Tsunade about resurrecting her loved ones, and needing 2 sacrifices Fawcettp (talk) 11:13, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

All Hokage have had some connection to each other: The First and Second were brothers, the Third was the student of the Second, The Fourth was the student of Jiraiya, who was a student of the Third, and the Fifth is the granddaughter of the First, the grandniece of the Second, and the student of the Third. When Kakashi was considered for the position of the Sixth, his connections to the past Hokage almost cemented his selection as he was a student of the Fourth. The former acting Hokage, Danzō, was once a rival to the Third for the position, and Danzō disagreed with the peaceful ideologies of the five Hokage.
 * it should be added that Danzō was also a student of the Second, and teammates with the Third.
 * He wasn't a student of the Second and he was only team-mates with the Third for one mission, as far as we know. Sign your posts. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:51, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Kakashi
Should it be noted that Kakashi is essentially the acting Hokage now? Gaara, Temari, and Kankuro have explained that Danzo flew the coop, and so it's been decided that the group needs to move on as though Kakashi had been chosen instead of Danzo from the start. I mean, the village doesn't know, but they said there's no time to go back and have the Jonin vote. So do we count Kakashi as acting Sixth or not? Teamrocketspy621 (talk) 16:13, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * He's not. Right now, Kakashi is a dude staying at an inn on the Outskirts of the Land of Iron. Danzo left the summit, but that doesn't dismiss him as acting Hokage, because nobody at the summit has the authority to say "Danzo is no longer Hokage." Only the Fire Daimyo and/or the Jonin Council can say that.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 16:33, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

This is my opinion, but i think we should have the pictures of the kage being in their kage robes if there are pictures of them in them, not their profile pictures, there is one of the 1st and 5th kages, danzo too, and we can put the picture on Minato's page (the one that says, Minato as the fourth hokage, i just personally think we should put those as the pictures on this page --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 21:11, December 17, 2009 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

Well,I'm sure we put atleast something about him being Hokage now that Danzo's dead--24.161.125.222 (talk) 17:46, February 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Again, until someone actually reaches Konoha and makes it official, he's just a guy running in the woods with a little boy. Yes I made that as creepy as possible.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 17:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Had Tsunade ever really met 1st? I don't see how that could have happened.

Strongest of all kages?
I don't recall Sarutobi being said to be the strongest of all kages...he wasn't, was he?--Narutodude (talk) 21:43, January 3, 2010 (UTC)Narutodude

1st controlling some biju
The 1st Hokages Secret Wood Style Jutsu made him able to control biju. I understand how Madara was able to control them through his dojutsu/genjutsu. But how can ninjutsu be able to manipulate things. All it is suppose to do is hurt you.
 * Ninjutsu can be used for a lot more than just hurting people. The way i understand it, the First Hokage channels his innate ability to control Tailed Beasts through his Wood Release. It was just a coincidence that his kekkei genkai gave him both powers.
 * Sign your posts next time, by the way. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Question
When Orochimaru was fighting the 3rd and summons the first and the second, were they the real 1st and 2nd or are they fakes. if they were real, there is no question that hiruzen is the strongest hokage since he was able to beat the1st, 2nd and Orochimaru at the same time. i think that minato was strongest since hiruzen said i wish the 4th were here, he would be able to beat Orochimaru.
 * They were the real First and Second Hokage. They had their souls, their abilities, and their strength. The only thing they lacked was their minds, since Orochimaru took those away. They were, in fact, more difficult to defeat, because they could regenerate when harmed.
 * The Fourth Hokage was not stronger that the Third, but he had the potential to become stronger. The Third Hokage was specifically called th strongest of all the Hokage, which includes the Fourth. However, the Fourth Hokage was called the greatest shinobi and the greatest Hokage and was said to be able to have risen to great heights. This indicates that he was one of the best in every point a shinobi and Hokage should and could be great and he could have potentially have become even stronger than the Third. He just died before that.
 * Again, sign your posts. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:06, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

kakashi
shouldnt he be put under candidate 6th as well he was just about to be announced hokage before tsunade woke up 90.205.34.194 (talk) 07:47, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

No when Tsunade woke up that ment that konoha had a hokage and doesn't need a candidate so Tsunade is the hokage again :P --Petar93 (talk) 09:46, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

strongest hokage
How do we know which one is strongest. Unless it's stated then it shouldnt be added ad its really a matter of opinion. Sanders-sama (talk) 18:37, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * It has been stated, multiple times, that the Third Hokage was the strongest. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:43, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * such as when ? Sanders-sama (talk) 19:13, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Such as in chapter 94, page 12 and in the First Databook, pages 117 and 265. --ShounenSuki (talk 19:23, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jiraiya staes the the 4th was the greatest ninja that ever lived. Jiraiya or Iruka. Who is more crediable? When your teaching little kids ovbiously your going 6to big up the CURRENT hokage Sanders-sama (talk) 17:32, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Databook is impartial, free of any bias Iruka or Jiraiya may have. ~SnapperTo 18:01, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I find it difficult not to think he was the strongest. He took out both the 1st and 2nd right along with Orochimaru... BY HIMSELF.

Danzo
Should we keep Danzō on the list? 24.45.20.86 (talk) 18:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. For an entire arc, he was Hokage.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:00, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * he wasnt hokage yet, all the jonin didnt decide that yet. he was just candidate hokage right?--Shelldone (talk) 21:10, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He still had an official appointment by the Fire Country's Daimyo, that should count for something. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:15, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * He ACTED as Hokage yes but was never one. Nevertheless he played an important role but he should be put in the same thing as Kakashi - Triva sectionSanders-sama (talk) 21:20, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Danzō was officially appointed as Hokage by the Daimyo and his council and acted as Hokage for a while. He was the regent and Hokage in all but law. He certainly deserves a mention in the actual article. --ShounenSuki (talk 21:24, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then we should a "Candidate Hokage" section. We could have Orochimaru and Kakashi there too Shock Dragoon Mar-28-10 5:30PM
 * They were never actually Candidate Hokages. Sure Candidates FOR Hokage but not the former.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 21:39, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Jiraiya was more of a Candidate Hokage than Orochimaru and neither Kakashi nor Orochimaru was ever officially appointed. --ShounenSuki (talk 21:42, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said, Danzo gets his place because for an arc, he was Hokage. Jiriaya and Kakashi were candidates for the title, but neither of them got the position. Orochimaru was merely considered, but clearly didn't get the job.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:38, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

I understand all of this, like at the end of chapter 450 he was said to be hokage, but even kakashi said the jonin didnt vote yet so hes acting as hokage for the time being. and even danzo said he wants to impress the other kages to get the vote from the jonin... so officially he wasnt hokage, but he just acting as hokage.--Shelldone (talk) 23:18, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think since the article is titled "Hokage" the point of the page is to show the Hokage of the village. Danzo was never officially a Hokage, or else he would have a picture in that room, and a carving of his face on the Hokage Monument. Danzo was merely put as the Acting kage, thats the word. What i mean by "acting" is that he was appointed leaser until a final decision was made (the jonin vote). I believe the hokage page should just contain information about the official hokage and that in the trivia section, its says, "Danzo was appointed during the Kage Summit arc as Temporary Hokage, until an official decision was made, unfortunatley, he died before the official Jonin vote was made," or something like that. --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 00:24, May 16, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

When he was dieing he admitted to not being the Hokage when he was thinking of Saurtobi. He was a candidate not the real thing. In order to be the real thing you need the Daimyo's blessing AND the Jonin vote. Danzo died before he got to the Jonin vote and as such even he admitted he wasn't Hokage. Say what you want but the character himself admitted it.Saimaroimaru (talk) 05:53, June 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why you even argue??? His last words said it: (Last Words) "Hiruzen... it looks like it's my turn next... but I... never did become Hokage... no matter how far I went I could never catch up with you... you are the leaves bathing in the sun. I... am the roots that grow in the dark." What prove do you still want? He said it. I am backing all the guys that said to remove him from the Hokage list. And if you don't remove it, then remove the Acting Sixth Hokage from his picture. He is dead now, not acting at all. :)--Donatelo (talk) 20:42, June 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fiction is written in present tense. If there is ever a point in a story where something is, it will never be was. ~SnapperTo 20:47, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

ya but if ur going to keep danzo, then kakashi should be there too, he was a candidate as well, and if you say he wasnt given blessing my the daimyo, he was a second from being done so, meaning that he was a candidate for the position, it's either put both the candidates, or take them out......my suggestion is to just make a trivia that kakashi and danzo were candidates for the position of 6th hokage --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 21:38, June 9, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze


 * Kakashi never made it to Candidate. A lot of people said "Hey Kakashi should blah blah blah" but officially he never made it. Even when he was about to be made it, Tsunade woke up and it was backed off. Danzo however was given the title by someone in power and had the power to make decisions.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:51, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

i agree, however, in the Fire Daimyo's head he already had Kakashi as a candidate for the position, and he was literally about to say "I hear-by appoint you as the Sixth Hokage" --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 22:20, June 9, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze


 * And he didn't. He instead said "Danzo, you're the Sixth Hokage.". That is why he's on the page, and Kakashi isn't.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 22:24, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

plus to add a point to previous comment, the word Candidate dictionary definition: A person who applies for a job or is nominated for election (side note:) -A person or thing that is regarded as suitable for or likely to receive a certain fate. Basically what i am trying to say is that a candidate is someone who is considered for the position. You have to use the word correctly, if you are going to say Danzo a CANDIDATE for 6th Hokage, then you need to put Kakashi as well because, he was considered for the position of 6th Hokage, my suggestion are to either change that danzo was a candidate, put a thing or kakashi as candidate, or just change to a trivia thing --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 22:25, June 9, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze
 * The main difference is that Danzō actually ruled as Hokage, whereas Kakashi didn't. Nor was Kakashi ever officially proclaimed as (candidate) Hokage, like Danzō. --ShounenSuki (talk 23:03, June 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yes i fully agree with you, my main point is that candidate isn't the right word, i see the difference and what you two are trying to say, you just need a different word --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 02:07, June 10, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze


 * But "candidate" is literally the only option. ~SnapperTo 03:19, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I do not quite see why another word would be needed. Candidate fits the role Danzō had quite perfectly. Just because it has other possible meanings, some of which might include Kakashi's position, doesn't mean that those meanings are intended. Almost every single word has multiple interpretations. The intended meaning is clear from the article.
 * Besides, even taking into account the broader definition of candidate, this would still not really include Kakashi.
 * For most, if not every, official position similar to that of Hokage, a candidate is someone who has been officially chosen to be a possible choice in the election for this office. Kakashi never made it that far, Danzō did. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:01, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

yes but kakashi, was a possibility for the position, that is wut candidate means --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 17:03, June 10, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze
 * Since Danzo did some work as Hokage, maybe we should use "Acting Hokage"? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 17:17, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * @Sauske-Blaze: Not when the term is used to refer to a candidate for an official position. In that case, a candidate isn't just someone who has the possibility to gain that position, but someone officially chosen to run for that position.
 * For instance, let's say that the position we're talking about is that of president. The candidates for this position are those officially chosen by the participating parties.
 * @Jacce: Acting Hokage doesn't actually completely fit the situation either. An acting Hokage would imply someone who takes over until a new Hokage can be elected. Not to mention that we actually have an official canon title. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:32, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

While the fact if Danzo should listed as Hokage or that we should make a new section about Hokage Candidates, should we not at least aknowledge on the Hokage section that for a while he was giving out the orders and representing the village as leader for a while. While he may not have been "Hokage," he was still in charge. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 18:01, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

I like ShounenSuki's point, like say the presidential run, all the people running for the position of president are known as candidate's, but I agree as well with his second point, that he should be listed as acting, or temporary acting or something. Maybe we should just change it to trivia that he was the acting hokage during the Kage Summit arc, and keep the page for the official hokage --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 22:34, June 10, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

Since he was preforming duties as Hokage and had a chance of becoming the Hokage, something Jiraiya and Kakashi didn't, Danzo could be listed as "acting". 213.67.182.127 (talk) 10:02, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

I think that Danzo should be removed from the Hokage page, because he was never officialy appointed like the others and if not that way then put it to trivia that he was acting hokage or remove the picture, because he is already dead.--Adek121 (talk) 14:05, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Of the non-Hokage, Danzo is the one who got closest to being one. From the structure we know (appointed by Daimyo, approved by jonin), he's the one who went the furthest. Also, why remove his image? Only Tsunade is alive, should we remove deceased Hokage as well? Don't think so. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:36, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

The best title for Danzo is "Interim", he was the Interim-Hokage. A person who is put into a position for the meantime to deal with current issues until the position can be resolved at a later date. I think this word should be substituted in the place of candidate, that or use the word 'Nominee' which also makes sense. On the debate on the word 'candidate', it is best defined, in the context we are talking about, as a person who is a contender and has some form of support for a position; Kakashi would fall under this definition of being a candidate, since he has several people who would support him such as Shikaku in his run for the position of Hokage. Naruto could be considered a candidate for Hokage, since he was praised so highly by a anonymous villager/Ninja and other notable characters. --Alastar 89 (talk) 07:08, December 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * No it isn't. Interim implies a temporary position one hasn't necessarily been officially elected for. Danzō's position was neither temporary —he would have become the real hokage had all gone right— nor unofficial — he was chosen legally and according to the normal procedures. There is no good word in English for what Danzō's position was. There are various terms used for positions like Danzo's, but none are perfect:
 * Candidate Hokage: Implies he has no official duties, nor has been actually elected in any way yet.
 * Hokage-Elect: Does imply he has already been elected, but also that he has no official duties yet
 * Interim Hokage: Implies a non-elected, temporary position with limited power, serving as an bridge between two official hokage. Usually used in times of crises when there is no longer any official government and no time to officially elect one.
 * Acting Hokage: Also implies a non-elected, temporary position. Usually because the official hokage is temporarily unavailable.
 * Hokage Nominee: Same as candidate-hokage, but implies candidature suggested by someone else, rather than candidature on one's own accord.
 * Hokage-Regent: Implies a temporary position held because the official Hokage is unable to rule in their own right, be it illness, minority, or something else. implies a non-elected, held-for-life position.
 * Hokage-Designate: Implies the person holding the title is expected to become the next Hokage, but isn't yet there.
 * Hokage-in-Waiting: Same as Hokage-Designate.
 * No English term truly fits Danzō's position, so we fall back on the term used by Kishimoto-sensei: HoKage Candidate. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:50, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia error
''All of the former Hokage have been sealed away in the stomach of the Death God summoning; The Fourth was sealed when he sealed the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox within Naruto, while the First and Second were re-sealed when the Third sealed them away. As for the Third, he was sealed when he gave his life to seal Orochimaru, but only managing to seal away his arms.''

How can the First and Second be re-sealed into the Death God summoning when they we're not sealed by the jutsu before Hiruzen actualy sealed them 91.176.139.47 (talk) 23:49, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Sakura connections
Why, in the connections trivia point, is sakura mentioned. She's never once been mentioned in regards to being hokage. The point is about the connections of those who have been hokage or, like kakashi, were considered for the position. Sakura really has no reason to be mentioned. I'm going to remove that part if no one objects and raises a legitimate reason--Soul reaper (talk) 11:04, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, I see no point in mentioning Sakura. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 11:14, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Tsunade and the 1st?
Did Tsunade ever really meet the 1st? I don't see how could that have ever happened since he had to have died before she was even borned. I think this was an ERROR. ~Daddy Mak~
 * Where is it said she met the First? —ShounenSuki (talk 15:25, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's the First's arm. ~SnapperTo 18:09, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * If that is so, then it is merely another anime error, I'd say. Tsunade was most likely born during the Third Hokage's reign, when both the First and Second Hokage had already died. —ShounenSuki (talk 19:02, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I was referring to that scene. After Chapter 481 it never made sense. I think it was an anime error because I don't remember seeing it on the manga. Thanx ShounenSuki. ~DaMakDaddy~

Hokage Picture All Wrong
The picture of the Hokage Monument that was recently added is incorrect. Hiruzen Sarutobi never had a beard. Also, where was the picture taken from?
 * You're right didn't even see that they gave him a beard. It was taken from Shippuden Episode 185--Cerez365 (talk) 07:31, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice that either. I'd restore the old one but, looking at it, it seems to have the same problem; just not as obvious. ~SnapperTo 19:29, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

WHY MANGA pics all of a sudden?
Why is Narutopedia gradually changes all anime pics into manga pics? Is this a wiki that only covers manga now? Just curious, why is a manga pic now used for the Hokage Monument when there are good full coloured anime pics out there? Other examples include Part 2 characters from coloured volume chapters, when there are full body shots of them in the anime? Sparxs77 (talk) 11:37, November 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can find a high-quality, flawless anime image of the Hokage Mountain, no-one will stop you from switching it with the manga image I put up. I only changed the image to one of the manga because the anime images were... not up to par, so to say.
 * As for the character images, that is because the coloured manga images give a more accurate view of what the characters are supposed to look like, being drawn by the original creator and all. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:41, November 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * We were actually in the middle of discussing this little issue a month ago, but the Wikia Crisis put it on the back burner to more pressing matters. I have no will to restart to discussion as of now because I have a lot of crap to do for the next three days (as of this writing) so feel free to bring it up here if you so desire.--TheUltimate3 ~The User King ~ 11:59, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

4th to 3rd Hokage?
Okay so obviously the 9 tails attack on the Leaf was before the 1st episode, and then the 4th hokage sealed it, so obviously it was the 4th hokage at that time. But if that's true, then at the beginning of the show, why was 3rd hokage back in seat? And how was there ever a 4th hokage if the 3rd hokage never died at the time? shouldnt the 3rd hokage still of been hokage when the 9 tails attacked? --Mizukage[Mist]
 * People tend to retire when they get pretty old. Hiruzen Sarutobi was 56 when the Nine-Tails attacked. That's not exactly young for a ninja. Jiraiya died at a younger age than that, as did many powerful shinobi. It should be no surprise that he would want to retire. That's my take on it, anyways.
 * The only important thing you need to know is that the Fourth Hokage was named while Sarutobi was still alive. That is the word of god. (Word of god as used here refers to the word of the creator of the series.)Ryne 91 (talk) 05:40, April 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * The former doesn't have to die in order for a new Hokage to be named. Just like any other regime it seems like Hiruzen was either helping Minato in an advisory capacity or helping with the transition of a new Hokage in office.--Cerez™☺ 05:46, April 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah i suppose, but if Hiruzen DID want to "retire" or anything of that sort, why didn't they just name a 5th Hokage? --Mizukage[Mist]
 * You know, all of these things are explained in one or more articles. Consider reading them?
 * Hiruzen never selected a Fifth because he could never find someone appropriate for the position. ~SnapperTo 02:17, April 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ahh and i dont know where the articles are :O

Hi VS Ho
I believe you all that HOkage is the proper spelling, not HIkage, but I'm just confused so this is a question of curiosity. I always thought that Hi was fire, not Ho. Can someone explain?--74.105.224.17 (talk) 18:35, April 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * The kanji for fire has multiple pronunciations. I.e.:
 * Hi:
 * Ho:
 * Bi:
 * Ka:
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 19:18, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Danzo the 6th... For a few days?
Wasn't Danzo already appointed as 6th Hokage before being conveniently offed by Sasuke (Or wasn't he approved by the Jounin or something, before Sasuke killed him?), so that the previous Hokage (Who was conveniently not dead) could be reinstated (Somethign like with the 3rd and the 4th)?--Boris Baran (talk) 21:59, July 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Danzō had been appointed by the Fire Daimyō, but he said himself he still had to be approved by the jōnin to be officially considered as Hokage. Even as he died, he said he didn't become Hokage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:06, July 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thx :) --Boris Baran (talk) 00:26, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Hokage the strongest out of...
... all Kages by default? Is this true? It seems Kabuto thinks so right here. Basicly, he's saying that the Hokage is always the strongest out of all the other Kages, just because he is the Hokage. Or did i misinterpret his words? 95.42.145.132 (talk) 14:24, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * He was referring to Hiruzen who was considered to be the strongest Kage during his time as Hokage.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:31, August 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Cerez365is right, it's just a bad translation. He's simply saying that the Third Hokage was said to be the strongest:
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 14:37, August 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 14:37, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you both, this really clears things up.... 95.42.145.132 (talk) 14:46, August 10, 2011 (UTC)