Talk:Hiruzen Sarutobi

Personality
Should it be mentioned in his personality that he didnt want to deal with the dark side of shinobi/world and that he intrusted danzo with thoughs task? 173.20.170.66 (talk) 03:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC) NaruHina4ever
 * Done.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 01:34, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

How about this: "In the anime, this was enforced by the fact that no matter how great Danzō's crimes, which included an attempt to assassinate him, Hiruzen could not bring himself to punish him, unable to accept that Danzō was no longer the childhood friend he once knew. " Justin Holland (talk) 01:49, March 21, 2014 (UTC)

Water Release
Doesn't he have water release due to his Wood Jutsu? 71.84.172.244 (talk) 05:20, May 26, 2013 (UTC) Tierein
 * Hiruzen does not use the wood style he's never been shown use It and never mentioned to --ROOT 根 (talk) 05:43, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is Hashirama who has wood release. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 05:46, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

Ōnoki
how about add that Hiruzen Sarutobi meet Ōnoki sometime in his life, cause he knows Ōnoki'sDust Release ?--
 * It's only natural for Hiruzen to know him, both are/were Kage and their villages fought against each other during the Third Shinobi World War.Norleon (talk) 14:09, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Cerez ordered me to tell you that there's no way for two 1000 year old men not to know each other, just relaying a message like a good boy.--Elveonora (talk) 15:51, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * And with that, everything is said and we can forget this topic forevermore.Norleon (talk) 16:15, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Knowing is one thing, meeting is other, i know who Kishimoto is, but i never met him. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 16:26, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Shuriken
I was thinking that we add to his page that he was able to instantly summon/bring fourth shuriken. I find it odd that an Edo tensei, was able to get fuma shuriken like that. Same goes for Minato and his ftg kunai. But unlike Minato, Hiruzen actually had a panel of his summoning the shuriken, then making clones of them. (in the new chapter btw). Even if we don't give him the Lightning Blade Creation, we could mention it in his page. In addition, we need to make a shuriken subheading for him. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 17:26, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm actually not sure what to do about this. I'd rather not create an unnamed technique for his ability to summon shuriken, while at the same time I'm pretty sure its not Lightning Blade Creation. I'm also not too keen on adding a "Shurikenjutsu" section just yet. After all, the only thing of note that he's actually done with shuriken is use Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique, which, in and of itself, is not that impressive nor noteworthy. All of that is already mentioned. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:48, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You don't think we should mention that he could summon shuriken? If i'm not mistaken, Edo Zombies don't carry items, only clothes. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 17:51, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You forget, Mangetsu had all of the swords of the Swordsman in a scroll which he already had. Deidara had his clay. Hanzō had his kusarigama. So on and so forth. Its not uncommon for them to have weapons sealed on their body too, like Sasuke did against Itachi. What I'm getting at is, we don't know if he summoned the shuriken, or already had them sealed in a tag somewhere on him, or if he used another method. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:55, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

That much was shown. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 18:01, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Kabuto gathered the swords in the scroll (note the missing Samehada)
 * Who knows what Hanzo did
 * Hiruzen actually summoned the shuriken, hence the puff of smoke around it, before he threw it and replicated it.


 * That's not proof of him summoning it. Sasuke and Tenten unsealing the weapons from various objects also resulted in a poof of smoke, and Sasuke had it on his wrist, in particular, so it also made it look like a summoning. Also, that may be true as far as the swords, but that still doesn't account for Hanzō, Minato, Deidara, and now Hiruzen. We simply don't enough to make an conclusive decisions. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:05, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hanzo and Deidara both do something different. In everyother instance, including Sasuke and Tenten, when a ninja tool is summoned, it is the result of a technique. In Sasuke's case, Lightning Blade Creation, and in Tenten's, Generic Sealing Technique. The only thing Hiruzen doesn't have, is a defined way he summoned his tool. Idk, I would add a technique like Ninja Tool Summoning, for those unexplained item summonings. Then add Gen. Seal. Tech. as a parent. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 18:21, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * That seems unnecessary to me, but I'll wait for others to weigh in. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:31, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Or simply add the Generic Sealing Technique, which is the staple for ninja weapon summoning techniques, instead of making a new one...we don't know if the Hokages stopped at any moment to re-supply their weapon arsenals or if what Hanzo and Deidara do is unique, if Kabuto resuplied them with weapons or if it's connected to the Hokages weapon use...there's simply too little to go on. To me he simply brought out a weapon, same show almost everyother ninja does in battle. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:34, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, we see everyone pulling their items outta their sack or bag, on their person. What Hiruzen did was summon the Fuma Shuriken. Regardless if Hiruzen resupplied himself with weaponry, he still summoned the shuriken. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 18:40, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

It's either fuuinjutsu or summoning technique, but no scroll or tattoo can be seen. He did it with only 1 free hand behind his back, so he likely pulled it out from his fart hole--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not the first time that things like these have been seen, shinobi summoning weapons out of seemingly nowhere. It's these kinds of things we aren't supposed to stress and just accept that it was summoned. We weren't anywhere near him to see what he did, the same way Sakon summoned a kunai out of seemingly nowhere during his battle with Raidō and Genma. There's nothing here worth mentioning or overly stressing about.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:52, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * I remember the Sakon&Ukon kunai thingy, but can't find it. Can you direct me over the talk?--Elveonora (talk) 20:00, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Chapter 185 pages 3-4.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:27, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Just to give my simple opinion, it looks like he summoned the shuriken, but thats not a big think, like other users said, it is a normal thing. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 20:10, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you read the first part of the Lightning Blade Creation article you'll see that all that is, is a specialised version of the ninja tool summon. Logically it's a convenient way to carry a lot of weapons and have them at your disposal without weighing you down.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:30, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Unless the story itself shows or hints at it being something more than generic sealing, I see no reason to think it's something unique or more complex. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:16, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Stopping summoning
In Naruto Episode 69, doesn't Hiruzen try to stop Orochimaru from summoning the Fourth Hokage by using Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation, but later it didn't need to be stopped because the Fourth Hokage is sealed by the Dead Demon Consuming Seal along with the Yin Chakra portion of the Nine-Tailed Fox/Kurama. --Jumbojetlaser (talk) 10:47, October 2, 2013 (UTC)Jumbojetlaser

Age
The first databook, which covers up to chapter 120, states that he is 68 years old. At his time of death, which happens in chapter 138, he's stated to be 69 years old. How can that be? Seelentau 愛議 10:10, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Either we got a date wrong or Kishimoto can't do math. One or the other.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:22, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't check the Japanese versions of the databooks, but I doubt that it's a mistake on our side. Kishimoto didn't think that through, Hiruzen's birthday isn't even in the months when Konoha Kuzushi happened. Seelentau 愛議 12:29, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * The same applies for Itachi. He's 17 in Rin, but 18 in Tō, even though he must've been 18 when Konoha Kuzushi happened (and the book of Rin ended). I think Kishimoto simply made the mistake to add 1 year to every character, even though it's illogical. Seelentau 愛議 12:56, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * Illogical perhaps but he has done pretty weird things when it comes to timelines. Seriously at this point it's a /shrug lets roll with it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:58, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Kishimoto could have simply decided for Hiruzen to had been born 1 year earlier down the road, same for others. Kinda like: "when Hiruzen was x years old, this happened and it was x years ago and currently he is x years old, but wait it doesn't fit well, for something to have happened when he was 10, having it been 20 years since, he must be 30 now, not 29, so I'm gonna make him a year older"--Elveonora (talk) 13:31, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

On to the age thing in databooks, the FIRST entry ever, for each character, always shows their stats like height, weight, nin stats and etc from the time they are introduced in the series. So Hiruzen was 68 earlier in Naruto and 69 when he died. It is not an error. Someone needs to go to the databook pages and put an explanation on how they work.. I had to get ShounenSuki to explain it to me years ago. But yeah first entries ever for each character, their stats cover their first appearance, so for example Naruto's entry in Databook 1 said he was 12, and 145.3cm tall when Naruto appeared in the first chapter - That was his FIRST entry ever. Ok so the caps aren't for yelling btw. Did I help?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:51, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Elements
How can that be, that Hiruzen mastered all five element's??-- Hiruシン (Dissi) ^^* 14:12, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

It never mentioned him mastering all 5, he mastered earth release and fire release. He just uses the other 3. Munchvtec 14:15, January 22, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec

yeah, but I find that illogical, just Rikudo Sennin can use all five elements, or not?-- Hiruシン (Dissi) ^^* 14:19, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. Every ninja can master all five natures. Seelentau 愛議 14:23, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

It just takes a lot of skill. Munchvtec 14:52, January 22, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec

It is just realistically only a Rinnegan user can master all five, Hituzen merely used them. Use is not mastery. &#34;Allons-y!&#34; (talk) 15:03, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

If you read the discussion, I already said that. Munchvtec 15:07, January 22, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec
 * Stop that, Munchi. Benknightprime, to master means to learn how to use them, regardless of how good. It was always clear that anyone could learn all natures, the Rinnegan fastens the progress, nothing else. Seelentau 愛議 15:17, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Just call me Munch not munchi lol and btw, mastering is not the same as using. For Example: playing a video game is not mastering it if you don't know how to play it though you can still "USE" that game. Munchvtec 15:28, January 22, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec
 * "to master" means to learn to a high degree of proficiency. Hiruzen did just that. Seelentau 愛議 15:37, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * And unless I'm wrong, the Rinnegan gives the user natural access to all basic Nature Transformations. The Third had to learn whatever release was not his affinity. Nagato could just do it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:05, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are wrong. Rinnegan just makes it easier to learn, doesn't give anything--Elveonora (talk) 17:10, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Ummm, Hiruzen used Wind Release Stream, right? shouldn't that be listed on the jutsu he uses? The other stream attacks are listed.....--Deathmailrock (talk) 07:31, February 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's there--Elveonora (talk) 11:11, February 1, 2014 (UTC)

Make names for the techniques he used
Shouldn't we make articles for the techniques the hiruzen and spiral zetsu used? Just something simple like earth release stream lightning release stream, etc.--AsianInvasion711 (talk) 03:16, January 24, 2014 (UTC)
 * Been there since the chapter came out. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:30, January 24, 2014 (UTC)

Naruto-Sasuke comments
"After his reincarnation during the Fourth Shinobi World War, both Naruto and Sasuke, each becoming highly capable and recognised shinobi themselves, would go on to praise his sheer prowess soon after seeing him in action"

If you check the citation out (chapter 632, page 10), you'll notice that Naruto and Sasuke never said such things about the third.

--Jingo12 (talk) 19:47, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

The part about his chakra levels was mentioned in chapter 120 too, not just the the anime episode (episode 71).

--Jingo12 (talk) 20:03, January 26, 2014 (UTC)

The streams
I wasn't going to bring this up because I couldn't really find an article that would fit the discussion and for a secondary reason that may be obvious to some. Any way, why did we create stream articles when Hiruzen used all 5 natures? It seems like whoever created the other articles did so because we had Wind Release Stream which was only created because Danzō was using wind to maneuver himself in mid air. Having those technique articles is like saying Water Release: Water Release — it's what's supposed to happen when they use those techniques. Personally I don't see the sense in having them aside from padding Hiruzen's infobox.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:57, February 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * The wiki is hardly foreign to the practice. Sage Art: Fire Release Stream, Wind Release Slash, Water Release: Pillar Encirclement, Earth Release: Tunnelling Technique, etc. Some of them have grades of uniqueness, but at the end of the day they only signify that X character can use Y nature. ~SnapperTo 05:01, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Still on this, wouldn't it be fine hen if we list him as a user of techniques we actually have like the water bullet or the great flame technique that we saw the other Sarutobi use? There is also the wind release technique we saw a Konoha-nin use. This would at least alleviate the generically named techniques. Thought? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:20, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * I suggested the same thing, Munchi disagreed tho--Elveonora (talk) 22:47, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well I'd like to hear if others would concede to it. It's not like we don't already so the reverse.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:10, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's my feeling that he doesn't need a jutsu at all, named or not. The nature icons should suffice. ~SnapperTo 03:42, March 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Snapper. What did he do, exactly? Launch each nature from his mouth? Dandy. Add the icons, mention he can use them in the abilities section, and leave it at that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 03:57, March 6, 2014 (UTC)

Sensor
When was it shown that Hiruzen was a sensor? --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 15:52, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * In the latest chapter I believe. He sensed that Madaras chakra disappeared. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 15:56, June 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * But it's nothing we've haven't seen before. Hebi/Taka were able to feel Naruto's chakra a country away because it was so potent. Madara had the ten-tails which is even more potent than Naruto's nine-tails so it would make sense plus in the article of Sensing it even says "various characters have commented on the feel of chakra and similar comments regarding the ability to sense high or potent levels of chakra a little, leading to the possibility that chakra sensing is merely a more refined version of this by either teaching or being simply born more 'sensitive'." --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 16:12, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

At this point it has become hard as **** to differentiate between sensors and stuff everyone can sense to an extent--Elveonora (talk) 17:46, June 14, 2014 (UTC)