Talk:Steel Release

Components
i think lightning and earth elements are components of steel release ,because stone(Earth) is a non-conductable material ,thought by fusing it with electricity(Lightning) it gaines extra electrons -like a natural conductor does - so it turns to  metal!!! or whatever ..... 93.109.21.198 (talk) 22:07, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * See my theories here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:12, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't Kakuzu use this as well? --76.119.171.118 (talk) 21:47, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Kakuzu uses Earth Release: Earth Spear. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:49, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Mobility
When Hiruko uses the steel on his hand can he still move his fingures and stuff around while its still steel?--Black-Light (talk) 05:08, June 12, 2011 (UTC)Black-Light
 * His use of Steel Release is very fast, but if I recall, he doesn't move his fingers again until he deactivates the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:22, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

Combination
I think (if its possible) that steel release is a combination of earth and yin. Not to speculate much on it actually not being elemental but if anyone watches fullmetal alchemist you may remember greed manipulating carbon atoms to give a similar effect to this nature. Since steel is simply a compound of durable iron and carbon, its possible that he uses the carbon atoms in his body to create a super dense shield. This is just a speculation and if anyone else noticed, steel isnt actually black but carbon is.


 * That's a nice theory (and it makes pretty good sense) but we don't put speculation on the pages. If anything, you could put this theory on this page as he usually give good feedback. If you feel compelled to, you could also add it to this page as well. Joshbl56  10:01, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

water plus earth
in the case of concrete, water hardens earth right can it be put as presumed? Munchvtec (talk) 07:36, December 9, 2013 (UTC) munchvtec
 * Earth Release + Water Release = Wood Release.--LeafShinobi (talk) 19:08, December 9, 2013 (UTC)

Gaara Hiden
Seriously? Did Gaara Hiden seriously introduce Steel Release, they actually called whatever jutsu this? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:03, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Umm, excitement or frustration Omnibender? and Yep! -- Questionaredude (talk) 01:13, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Both. Do not have enough information to determine the ratio though. The fact twins have different kekkei genkai though. I really hope they're fraternal twins, but I have the feeling they end up being identical twins. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:21, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * To add to some frustration, none of his techniques were named, despite him using like 2-3 different technique >.> Expect some unnamed technique pages :(--Omojuze (talk) 07:25, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to know if the wiki going to consider Steel release a part of the canon from this point on, due being in a novel, or...?--Tzao (talk) 10:45, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * No. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:47, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * The same as with Crystal Release, no? Norleon (talk) 10:54, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Application
Considering the two versions of Steel Release we have now work differently, which one do we consider the main, "more canon" one, if any? This would change what we list in this article, and in the main nature transformation article. I'd pick the novel interpretation, since the novels, despite their mentions of movie stuff before, are more in line with what is established in the manga. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:10, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Semi-canon novel > third grade canon movie. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:13, June 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Really the only thing that needs changing is just stating that "Steel Release has the ability to create Steel (I assume from nothing)". Don't have to make the article more complicated than that.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 18:16, June 24, 2015 (UTC)

Enhanced Earth Release
The Gaara Hiden claims Metoro and Etoro's combination of Lava (Earth and Fire) and Steel was a Pseudo-Kekkei Tota. I think this is further evidence to say that Steel release is to Earth what Typhoon and Blaze is to Wind and Fire respectively: An enhanced form of Earth Release. Any thoughts? Shock Dragoon (talk) 19:19, May 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yet Hiruko (from the movie) quoted it to be a Kekkei Genkai. 0 evidence that Steel is related to Earth.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 19:21, May 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * These two statements are not mutually exclusive. The Lava/Steel combination was said to be pseudo kekkei tota, that still works with Steel Release being kekkei genkai. I can sort of see SR being an enhanced ER, but the only known kekkei tota was a combination of three natures, so I'd argue that SR shares one element with LR. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:24, May 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought at first (Earth) but given what we've done with Blaze and Typhoon being "Enhanced" I think it could fit for this since we've seen ER be used to strengthen and weaken earth like steel. Figured it merit discussion when Typhoon could be WR + LR but we wen the "Enhanced route". Shock Dragoon (talk) 19:31, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

Pseudo Kekkei Tota
Since Gaara called the Twin Brothers Cooperation-Technique Pseudo-Kekkei Tota, wouldnt it mean there combined Kekkei Genkais would share one element?

Lava Release is a mixture of Fire and Earth, leaving only one missing Nature.

Fire + Lighting = ? Fire + Water = Boil Fire + Earth = Lava Fire + Wind = Scorch

Earth + Lightning = Explosion Earth + Water = Wood Earth + Fire = Lava Earth + Wind = Magnetism

So two question:

Are we gonna agree that the pseudo Kekkei Tota is a "mixture" of Earth, Fire and Lightning. Meaning our suggested Earth + Lightning is Steel rather than Explosion?

Leaving Explosion Release to be a mixture of Fire and Lightning. And Deidara uses his Earth Nature in his clay rather than directly in his kekkei genkai. And his Explosive Clay is Earth and Explosion based?--Keeptfighting (talk) 22:41, October 11, 2016 (UTC)
 * Manga > novel. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:29, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * Was it stated in the Manga to be Earth + Lightning? Said the Databook that Deidara or Gari only know these two basic natures? --Keeptfighting (talk) 09:54, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * No, but I'm not going to explain again why Explosion Release has to be made up of Earth Release. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:36, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you give me a link where you explained it?--Keeptfighting (talk) 23:05, October 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Should be somewhere in the archives of the Explosion Release talk page. It's basically "Sasuke countered Deidara's bombs with Raiton, because he knew Raiton is strong against Doton. Because it's the chakra that explodes (and not the clay), Doton has to be part of the Explosion Release chakra.". I mean, if the Raiton would counter the Doton in the clay itself (if there is any Doton there), the chakra itself would still explode, right? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:17, October 15, 2016 (UTC)

That and Gari does not use clay and can still make explosions using explosion release.. QuakingStar (talk) 00:28, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Steel Release is as Blaze release and Typhoon Release. S.R. is a variant of earth release. u.u Sharingan91 (talk) 05:52, October 16, 2016 (UTC)

But how is Sasukes Raiton defusing Deidaras Doton, if there isnt any Doton? A Kekkei Genkai is created by combining two natures into a NEW one. I agree on Raiton > Doton, but not on Raiton > Bakuton.

Because Gari is a close-range fighter, he just concentrate Chakra into his Palms and releases it on point to create Explosions. Deidara on the other hand is a long-range fighter. That was the reason to steal the Iwa-Kinjutsu in the first place. So he can create Clay he can store his Explsovie Chakra in and sent it to his foes. Meaning his Clay (Doton) surrounds his Bakuton resulting into the creation of explosive Clay (Bakuton + Doton). So by attacking the explosive Clay with Raiton, you destroy the Clay because Raiton > Doton. The explosive Chakra find its way to the surface and vanishes into thin air, since Deidara didnt gave the "command" to explode. I can't remember anyone trying to defuse the human-bomb Gari with Lightning.

Steel Release is said to be a Kekkei Genkai meaning its a combination from two natures. Blaze Release is a kekkei Genkai, because it is used through the Mangekyou. Its a difference..--Keeptfighting (talk) 14:32, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Combining two natures does not create an entirely new nature. Mokuton, Bakuton and the others are just the names for when you use two natures at the same time (and for the Kekkei Genkai that are needed to do so). Plus, Deidara's clay was always just called clay, not Earth Release or anything like that. Especially when he fought Gaara, he noticed how he didn't have much clay left. If it was just Doton, he could've just created more clay without worries. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:17, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * The issue I've always had with the "Sasuke's Raiton messed with the Doton portion of Deidara's Bakuton" argument is that that's literally the only example in the series where this selective advantage happens. No other instance of a basic nature besting an advanced nature on account of having an advantage over one of its components happens in the series. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:23, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Earth Release often makes use of already existing earth in the users surrounding. Why not use Earth Release with already existing Clay? Even more so after Deidara run out of Clay he digs into the ground to get more clay, affiliating even more with Earth Release.--Keeptfighting (talk) 17:29, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * He digs into the ground to get more clay? So he didn't use Earth Release to simply create more? • Seelentau 愛 議 17:36, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * If he was able to just simply "create" clay, then Sasori would not have remarked on the amount of clay in his pouch and Deidara wouldn't have had to make efficient use of his remaining clay to capture Gaara at the start of the series. He would have just flown away, created some clay from nowhere and used it, which is really unlikely. It sounds like Deidara gets his clay from somewhere, rather than creating it (all of his technique just involve the use of activating clay, not making it). --Sajuuk 17:48, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * I really don't want to bring the novels into this, but in the Akatsuki novel, Deidara is actually going to a village to get new clay. Again, I don't consider it to be canon, just noting it. As Sajuuk says, if the clay was simply created with Doton, Deidara could've done it at all times (even mid-fight). • Seelentau 愛 議 18:01, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * When Deidara runs out of clay he digs into the ground to get more clay, he did this during the fourth shinobi world war.

You two didnt got my point. Earth Release User often rely on ALREADY existing Earth, only on rear occasions they produce there own. For example Earth Release: Earth-Style Wall the user slams there hands onto the ground, raising a earth wall from already existing earth. And Deidara does the same, he use Earth Release NOT for creating more clay BUT to manipulate and control it.--Keeptfighting (talk) 18:57, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * I have a question, What is pseudo kekkei tota? In the novel Lava + Steel is pseudo KT, because it's the union of three elements, so in this case earth+fire+steel... or hypothetically earth+fire+earth+lightning. Then according to this logic the Lava Rasenshuriken is pseudo kekkei tota (lava+wind=earth+fire+wind) or Steam rasenshuriken (boil+wind=water+fire+wind)... --Sharingan91 (talk) 19:10, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * First of all, when did Deidara dig into the ground to get more clay? I haven't found anything like that in the chapters he appears. Then, you're saying that Deidara doesn't use Earth Release to create new clay, but only do manipulate it. Do you really think that when he fought Gaara, a jinchuriki, he would not create new clay using Earth Release instead of getting killed? • Seelentau 愛 議 19:17, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * The digging into the earth thing only happened in anime filler. As for the larger issue at hand, Deidara has at least one clay technique that isn't inherently explosive, so is that not enough to establish he uses Earth Release to manipulate the clay itself?--BeyondRed (talk) 20:32, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not really. First of all, the databook entry for the Clay Clone doesn't mention Earth Release once. The databook entry for Kibaku Nendo further elaborates that chakra is used to control the Kibaku Nendo animals. Not Earth Release chakra. Third, in the Fourth Ninja World War, when Deidara got caught by Kankuro, Omoi used Raiton to disable Deidara's ability to self-destruct. He pierced Deidara, not his clay. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:05, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * And for his C0, Deidara requires ingesting his clay through the chest mouth. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:48, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * To knead the exploding chakra into it. But when Omoi pierced him, Deidara had only removed his cloak. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:03, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * He had just been told by the Iwa-nin how Deidara's jutsu worked. Why allow him the opportunity to set it up in the first place? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:22, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * They did that by caging him. The Raiton was no necessity, it was only used to prevent him from exploding. But there was no clay inside him, so why pierce him with Raiton in the first place? • Seelentau 愛 議 22:50, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Deidara using Earth Release to manipulate and control his already existing Clay doesnt mean he is able to produce Clay out of thin air using ER. Its like shinobi who are not able to use Water Release without a nearby water source. They are able to manipulate it, but not able to produce it.

The whole 'piercing him with Lightning despite being already caged' thing is that they play safe by paralising him.--Keeptfighting (talk) 00:33, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then why didn't Deidara always form the Earth seal when he did something with his clay? And Deidara was anything but paralysed in there. He could move, he could talk, he never made any allusion to being paralysed. And if it was just to paralys him, why didn't they do the same to Sasori? • Seelentau 愛 議 01:11, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why didnt Naruto use the Wind seal to use Wind Release: Rasengan? There are Jutsu that simply dont require Handseals. Maybe the Raiton Chakra was there to prevent him from using Doton Chakra? --Keeptfighting (talk) 13:37, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Rasengan is always used without hand seals, the fourth databook even calls it the strongest technique that doesn't need seals. And no, certainly not. Deidara wanted to blow himself up, Omoi stabbed him with Raiton and Kankuro made an allusion to Deidara being a dud or so. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:22, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * But blowing himself up, takes time to prepare. When you even have intel on how his Jutsu works. Why wait?--Keeptfighting (talk) 17:07, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * They didn't wait. They trapped them in the puppets and then Omoi stabbed Deidara to disable the clay inside his chest. But all this is why I didn't want to have this discussion again. It just ends in repetition. Everything I wrote here, I have written to someone else months ago. Go read that please. • Seelentau 愛 議 17:52, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * I've read it. And still I can't believe the Earth element being a part of Explosion Release, just because Sasuke could defuse "them".

- Why was Sasuke able to defuse Deidara's Explosion Release with his Lightning Release? Oh because Lightning has the advantage over earth, which is presumed to be a component? Then why couldn't Sasuke melt Hakus Ice with his Fire, since one of its component is Wind?

There is NO way a basic nature can win against an advanced nature. Also a reason why no one can win against a Kekkei Tota user beside another Kekkei Tota user.

In fact what we know about Explosion release is that both user need a medium to make explosive. And they need to make contact with it to knead there Chakra into them.

Gari uses his version by kneading Chakra and sending them directly into his foes, making them Human-Bombs. Thats definitly not Deidaras type of fighting style.. so Deidara stole Iwa's Kinjutsu to knead Chakra into his Clay and making it explosive Clay. Thus allowing him to stay away from his oponent.

So what Sasuke did was using Lightning Release to destroy the Earth Chakra in Deidara's Clay, destroying his medium so he could effectivly fighting against his explosive clay.

Now I believe Explosion Release is made out of Lightning and Fire. And Deidara usage needs him to control his Clay with earth-based Chakra. Clay(Earth) + Explosion KG(Lightning+Fire). Giving Steel Release its Earth + Lightning component, which Gaara already proven.--Keeptfighting (talk) 01:13, October 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * For the last time: If Deidara's clay was Earth Release, 1) he would have been able to create it whenever he wanted, 2) he hadn't go to a village to get new clay (novel-only, but you use novels in your argument as well), 3) the clay (at some point) would've been called Earth Release, 4) he wouldn't have needed the Iwagakure Kinjutsu to knead chakra into the clay and 5) it would've made zero sense to pierce the clay with Raiton, when it's the explosive chakra that explodes, not the clay. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:54, October 18, 2016 (UTC)