Talk:Asura Ōtsutsuki

Logical deduction using facts
There have been arguments about Asura having Six Paths Senjutsu. To me the answer is obvious, yes, he did. From what we know, Asura's chakra+Indra's chakra=Hagoromo's chakra. Simply put, merging chakras of Hagoromo's sons recreates Hagoromo's chakra. Hagoromo is known to have had Six Paths Sage Chakra. Asura's avatar has Truth Seeking Balls too so.--Elve Talk Page 10:19, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * But [Asura's chakra =/= Hagoromo's chakra] and [Truth-Seeking Balls unconfirmed]. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:40, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Point being there's no indication Indra inherited Six Path Sage Chakra, while Truth Seeking Balls are highly likely with Asura along with the Tailed Beast like Avatar.--Elve Talk Page 10:46, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Neither Indora nor Ashura were said to have inherited SPSC and the black orbs weren't confirmed to be TSBs. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:47, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * If merging their chakras restores Hagoromo's then one of them has to have SPSC and the black orbs i'm aware weren't "confirmed" to be TSB but it's obvious. I mean, Naruto against Sasuke was almost identical to Asura vs Indra, yet you say their avatars and orbs which look almost identical are unrelated? Lawl.--Elve Talk Page 10:58, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * But his chakra is SPSC, if the two each had 50%, why does one have the full 100%? Also, it doesn't matter what I'm saying. Or you. Or anyone. They weren't confirmed to be TSB, so we won't call them that. I can only repeat: It's not our job to correct the manga, neither is it our job to fill in the unexplained gaps. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:05, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

Naruto has/had SPSC, so he has/had 100% of Hagoromo's chakra? Nope. And it's not correcting manga, it's stating the obvious. I'm sure Kishimoto trusts his fans can connect the dots. Naruto is reincarnation of Asura and their avatars and orbs are very similar so it's given they are related.--Elve Talk Page 11:11, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * So Hagoromo's chakra is 100% SPSC, but if you have only 50% of his chakra, you still have SPSC? Then what did Indora get? Logically, he would've gotten SPSC as well. And yes, there are similaritys. They don't mean anything as long as Kishimoto doesn't explain them, though. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:17, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem is, Indra's chakra avatar wasn't stated to be Susanoo either. Yet it's "obvious" and we "correct the manga" and "fill in the gaps" in regards to that, but the same doesn't apply about Asura's chakra avatar because double standards.--Elve Talk Page 11:19, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Lol no. It's because Indora's chakra avater obviously is Susanoo. You don't need to correct or fill in anything there. Ashura's avatar doesn't look like anything we've seen to date, so we can't name it just because Naruto's fox avatar somewhat looks like Indora's avatar. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:35, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just like it's "obvious" to you that Indra's chakra avatar was Susanoo since it looks like other Susanoo, it's "obvious" to me that Asura's chakra avatar was Kurama and his black orbs were TSB. Your "obvious" isn't superior to mine. It hasn't been stated anywhere in manga or databooks (to my knowledge) that Indra used Susanoo, so hence by your own logic it should be removed.--Elve Talk Page 11:39, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no difference between Indora's Susanoo and the others. There IS a difference between Ashura's chakra mode and Naruto's Kurama mode. Additionally, Ashura was never said to be Kurama's Jinchuriki, in fact, Mito was even called its first Jinchuriki. There is no problem in calling Indora's avater Susanoo because it adds up. Ashura having Kurama's chakra does not. Additionally, the black orbs could've been TBB and not TSB. Both are black orbs, so we can't say for sure that they're TSB. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:44, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

That's not the point, your logic was we shouldn't correct and fill in the gaps. Indra's chakra avatar is NO MORE obviously Susanoo than is Shin's Space-Time Tech Kamui, yet we haven't added the latter. The only difference between Ashura and Naruto's is the heads and neck thingy. Also TBB require Tailed Beast chakra, TSB require Six Paths Sage Chakra and FF-Suzaku I believe said it's suggested in the novel Tailed Beast chakra plays role in Six Paths Senjutsu after all (and you say it's fanon I know). One way or another, Ashura was either jinchuuriki or Six Paths Senjutsu user or both.--Elve Talk Page 11:54, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * My point is that Indora's Susanoo isn't something that was filled in by us, while Ashura's avatar obviously would be. This discussions alone are proof enough that we can't simply add it as you want. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:57, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Except it was filled in by us. It wasn't stated to be Susanoo in any official source, heck, Indra wasn't stated to have had a Mangekyou Sharingan either, it was "filled in" by us that his spiral eye thingy was it.--Elve Talk Page 12:06, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Elve, maybe that's because it didn't have to be stated by an official source. I think anyone can read the corresponding manga chapter and determine that it was indeed Susanoo. The disconnect here is that you think Asura is obviously using something that isn't obvious to others.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 12:12, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because there is no other possibility. Same goes for Magnet Release's natures. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:13, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, precisely. We knew his natures via databook, so there was only one obvious choice left. Elve, you yourself stated that Asura was either "jinchuriki" or "SPS", or "both": one out of three possibilities. You're comfortable guessing on which it is?--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 12:17, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

Hypocrisy is our greatest sin isn't it... Indra's obviously Susanoo because it has most of the characteristics other Susanoo have, Tengu theme and all, still doesn't change the fact it wasn't stated we just assume, thus you shat in your own mouth Seel about "not our job to assume" For the rest, only differences between Ashura and Naruti's avatars is the head and necklace/beads otherwise they are more similar to each other than Indra's Susanoo to Sasuke's, yet they aren't the same thing because double standards. @Minamoto, the novel suggests Tailed Beast chakra is required for Six Paths Senjutsu, if that's true, then it's both.--Elve Talk Page 12:22, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd like to ask which novel suggests that because I don't recall that at all.--Omojuze (talk) 13:16, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe it was the Shikamaru novel. Shikamaru notes that he has all tailed beasts chakra and Six Paths chakra that basically made him a god.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 13:20, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * ^mhh... Thank you. But that doesn't imply anything in regards to requirements of Tailed Beast Chakra to use Rikudō Senjutsu. The sentence doesn't imply anything at all, unless you count "confirmation" that Naruto has kept the Bijū chakra.--Omojuze (talk) 13:23, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * There were also remnants of the other 8 bijuu inside him as well. In that way, you could say he was a human pillar for the power of the Ten Tails. In the last war, Obito had become a human pillar for the Ten Tails and gained chakra rivalling that of the Sage of the Six Paths. Naruto, who’d taken the bijuu into him as well, had some of the Sage’s power even now. - this? (Shikamaru Hiden, Chapter 1/4, between pages 75-85)--Omojuze (talk) 13:27, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's correct.--Elve Talk Page 13:51, June 21, 2015 (UTC)

Last Name
Y'know, ever since Ōtsutsuki was added to his and his brother's pages something's been nagging me, but I left it alone. Y'all cite the fourth databook as having given this information. Their names in the databook are literally just given in first name only. I know we were expecting them to be revealed with the full Ōtsutsuki name, but it didn't happen and yet we went ahead and added it as soon as we could. I mean, am I missing something here? Is it actually mentioned somewhere in one or both of the databook articles and Kishi for some reason didn't add it to the title?--ScruffyC (talk) 13:47, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the last names were given in some promotional material in the WSJ or so... • Seelentau 愛 議 13:49, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the reason that they were given "Otsutsuki" is because of the fact that Hagoromo revealed that he had two sons called Asura and Indra and his name was given as "Otsutsuki", so it was logical that their names were the same as well. But honestly, a lot of shit done on this wiki makes little sense anymore and reasoning just becomes wilder and wilder. >_> --Sajuuk Special:Contributions/SuperSajuuk 14:01, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * I understand the logic behind it, and once upon a time I was on the side of adding their names with that reasoning in mind... However, seeing as Kishimoto went to the trouble of not adding the brothers' names as "Ōtsutsuki" in the databook, something I'm positive he thought about (he did confirm Hamura's name as such), I'm hesitant to seal the deal, y'know? But if there's promo material confirming it, I'm happy. ScruffyC (talk) 14:07, June 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Talk:Indra_Ōtsutsuki and http://i.imgur.com/cj9LQHi.jpg 14:27, June 21, 2015 (UTC)