Talk:Tobi (Zetsu)

Name
Though I'm not 100% about this article, can anyone think of a better name for the character, because all Zetsu are androids, and the name sounds out-of-universe. Or is Swirl Zetsu as the filename says suitable?--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:08, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Swirl Zetsu is better. I thought the term android was odd, but I'm not paid to worry about names I am paid to make sure the article is formatted correctly. (Wait, I'm not paid at all! /cry)--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:10, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait.. you get pai-oh ('-' ) ( '-'). Swirl Zetsu it is then. He seems like he's going to be "relevant" somewhat at least.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:18, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can't we just include all the clones&variants into the single "Zetsu" article? "Zetsu" stands for a number of Hashi-tree-made artificial entities... and again, how come does/do he/they have blood while being 99% flower and almost hollow 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 11:24, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I think Spiral Zetsu is a better name :)) I think that maybe he will be named "Tobi" later, let's just wait. Also, "android" was a terrible translation, ms translated it as "artificial human" which is way better because zetsus are biological beings. About merging with Zetsu page - no, of course not. That page is already a mess because of having such a different beings as White and Black Zetsus in it. This is the same as merging all articles about different characters into the "People" article. It's good we have at least White Zetsu Army article separately.Faust-RSI (talk) 12:51, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Spiral does sound better, ties in with Naruto themes instead of swirl and all. Also not for the merging. They're different characters except for the other clones that can be lumped together.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:43, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Obito called him "Spiral" in the manga I read, OR Swirl, referring to it's face, so Swirl, or Spiral Zetsu is a better name, unless They pick to just put him as another Zetsu army.--Kinglink15 (talk) 17:38, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

But in my opinion, it's better to name him Tobi as does looks like the mask obito's wore before. Maybe you could name him Tobi zetsu, Spiral Tobi or just Tobi. Tobi and Zetsu is a pair, how nice.--Williamteoh97 17:38, September 29, 2012 (UTC)

How about something like "Zetsu (Swirl)" or "Zetsu (Clone)"? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:27, September 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, should we change it like I said above? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 09:32, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * That doesn't really follow character naming conventions though. More a tool. If the name was to be changed it would probably be to Spiral Zetsu, though we could just wait, next chapter is around the corner...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:36, September 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds good, but just bringing this up: what about people like Gantetsu (Iwagakure), Gantetsu (Shinobazu), and Gantetsu (anime), and so on? They use similar naming convention with weapons, more or less. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 05:37, October 1, 2012 (UTC)

Colour
Obito asked where the "other white dude" has gone, suggesting that the swirl one may not be of the same color. But I am not really sure if this is worth adding to the article... Fox616 (talk) 14:40, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? I got the impression that there was simply a third "white dude" with whom Obito interacted...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:34, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

In fact, we seen up to four white zetsu (the first two and two more normal looking ones) in that flashback when he was trying to walk again and succeeded, they were cheering.98.26.240.62 (talk) 17:02, September 26, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

All Zetsu are White,(Black Zetsu isn't of course), I can refer that he asked other white dude, as in, the other Zetsu they he remembers seeing, after the whole, "Getting use" to the body we saw few more Zetsu so the colour is the same, until the manga of it's colour shown (Next chapter will be issued on colour) or the anime.--Kinglink15 (talk) 17:42, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi
Considering his personality and his mask, is anyone else thinknig the original, goofy persona of Obito called Tobi was actually this guy? So Tobi was a real person.. hmm.. and he bonded with obito's body and took control of it after Sasori died?--72.201.75.108 (talk) 18:16, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Very possibly the "goofy Tobi" persona of Obito was/is this dude, but this ain't a forum so we have to wait a few more chapters--Elveonora (talk) 19:39, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Or the Idea Obito got of "Goofy" was from this guy, even the Mask he got it from this guy.--Kinglink15 (talk) 20:43, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Status as a "Zetsu"
Is it really safe to call this a "Zetsu"? It is entirely possible that Zetsu was just the name of the green-haired one we end up seeing later on. Since the White Zetsu Army are all based on him, it makes sense that they share the name, but the other primitive white creatures may have their own, unique names. Perhaps it would be preferable to refer to the others simply as artificial humans until we get some sort of confirmation? --BeyondRed (talk) 19:27, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

If more unique and nicknamed individuals appear, I think we should simply make an article and call them "Hashirama's Plant Clones" or something--Elveonora (talk) 19:41, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, i think Zetsu is the name for the original Green-haired artifical human that we know as the Original White and Black Zetsu, and the Swirl guys name is Tobi so they are distinct and different entities. But, with not alot of info we have to wait a few chapters to see how they proceed. If Swirlzetsu is named Tobi like me and many others predcit, we can classify them as different entities.--72.201.75.108 (talk) 19:48, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

And if he turns out to be Tobi, how are we going to proceed? Will we have 2 articles with "Tobi (Obito Uchiha)" and "Tobi (White Zetsu Clone)" or something?--Elveonora (talk) 19:58, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah probably? just as Obito took on Madara's idenity he very well could of done the same with this "Tobi".--72.201.75.108 (talk) 20:36, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * This Zetsu might be the reason of Obito acting like a Goof, Let's not forget, Sasuke slashing "Tobi" left no mark it "slipped through him, Obito could have gotten the idea of being this Zetsu, if he is named Tobi, then it's name was the idea for Obito, over all, this Zetsu acts as all the other Zetsu, even the original a bit, only more of a goof. I am only stating my theory of this Zetsu after all, he could have been that one thing that gave Obito the idea to look like, for a reason unknown. (could have died during saving Rin, or somewhere along the line.) It is a Zetsu, cause it was stated, so far The officers are only doing what the Manga stated, A few more chapter might help us along the line. And if it's name is Zetsu I think it would be better changing all "Tobi" into Obito, and this Zetsu can keep it's own name.--Kinglink15 (talk) 20:42, September 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * This Zetsu might also be my long lost cousin from Grrfurjiclestan. I don't understand why people feel the need to assume what he/it is. Wait for the story to unfold. Bridges can't be crossed before we reach them. As for its status as a Zetsu, there's a reason why its being called a clone.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:37, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, no one from those were called neither clones nor Zetsus in the latest chapter.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:56, September 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * hello are we ignoring this he needs a diff name209.56.53.1 (talk) 18:41, October 1, 2012 (UTC) NaruHina4ever


 * At this point, it's probably best just to wait a few more days for the next chapter. Hopefully it will clarify whether this clone is a "Zetsu" or has its own unique name.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:41, October 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was recently call a clone of the original White Zetsu.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 11:44, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Chakra Nature
Is it realy safe to say he has wood, water, and earth. wouldn't he/it just has the potential to learn it and not realy have it. I know he has the DNA but does it mean he mastered it? 209.56.53.1 (talk) 17:47, October 3, 2012 (UTC) NaruHina4ever
 * Never said that the Zetsu have mastered wood release because they use it on a weaker scale than Hashirama and Yamato. I doubt we'll ever see any Zetsu using wood release the way those two do but their techniques (though not listed here) are possibly wood release. As for the other components because they can use wood release water and earth have to be added, though I sometimes link that their use of wood release is more innate rather than nature transformation.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:04, October 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah their move are "possibly" wood. Don't we have a "got to see it to beleive it" rule??? 209.56.53.1 (talk)NaruHina4ever
 * Yes, but it was superseded in Zetsu's case after Shizune and Sakura's autopsy.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:06, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

So who has decided that we get rid of all chakra natures on Guruguru's page and add them to Yamato's page instead?Faust-RSI (talk) 11:45, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Gender
Are you sure this Zetsu's male? Or is it just that genderless can't be chosen? Seelentau 愛議 13:54, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * No gender can be choosen. Don't know why he was put as male.~ 13:57, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Gender =/= Sex. He acts and sounds clearly male--Elveonora (talk) 18:05, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds male o.O? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:34, October 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * So much subjectivity... he is an artifical human, a lump of cells. He has no gender, no sex, no anything. Seelentau 愛議 18:55, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't he called a spiral guy? Everyone has a gender regardless of genitals. He doesn't seem to be behaving any feminine to me--Elveonora (talk) 19:39, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu(main) is classified as male in the databook, yet he has no genitalia. And as all zetsu are clones of each other, regardless of the various plant like shapes they take, they are all genetically identical. They all also take a male profile (body outline). Also, their genetic source is male.(I'm sure its possible to add his DNA to a female using the method used on Yamato, but thats not how they were made). Quite sure this is enough evidence to make him male. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 19:53, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

That's correct as well. But the fact that people do confuse sex with gender is sad "_" --Elveonora (talk) 19:58, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Then make him male again, I was just wondering. Seelentau 愛議 23:13, October 10, 2012 (UTC)

Voice actor
Why is there only Nobuo Tobita put as the voice actor of Spiral Zetsu? Because there must be two of them: Wataru Takagi and Nobuo Tobita. (As you can hear crearly in 345 episode).
 * Because the credits says it's Nobuo and only him. There is no two voices just because his personality is like the Tobi persona. And please sign your comments.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 09:19, January 17, 2014 (UTC)

Guruguru?
Sorry, can we have a reference for that? And also, if such a reference exists, it will be logical to rename the whole page, as this would be the only name (even if nickname) that is actually present in the manga. Nobody ever called him Spiral Zetsu. The Spiral One, on the other hand, could be one of his listed nicknames.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:35, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * In one of the three chapters that were covered in this week's episode. Not quite renaming material since this isn't actually a name or a description, it's an onomatopoeia. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:40, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * He refers to him with an onomatopoeia because of his swirl face. I doubt any English equivalent exists for that, so I'm against renaming him. Seelentau 愛議 13:53, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * So, what has changed now? What's new in the raw except of chapter 605, page 17 that I added quite some time ago? Faust-RSI (talk) 14:50, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

That's all fine and well, except an onomatopoeia CAN be a name. Even in this manga we have Tenten and Tonton.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:04, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing has changed, he was simply called Guruguru by another source than a manga character. Seelentau 愛議 15:48, February 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * And this source is?..Faust-RSI (talk) 19:53, February 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * An additional page summarizing the four enemies of the Shinobi forces found in the WSj published on 3.3. Seelentau 愛議 00:40, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, never knew that did such a summary. Off-topic - so, 4 enemies are Guruguru, Madara, Black Zetsu and..?Faust-RSI (talk) 09:38, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * ...White Zetsu. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 09:44, March 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Strange that they consider some random clone worth mentioning...Faust-RSI (talk) 09:46, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

Obviously
Sage Art means senjutsu was involved, so spiral zetsu can use senjutsu making him a sage and is clearly the strongest zetsu. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:27, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't be so sure of that. That could've possibly been a non-senjutsu version. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 07:36, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Nature Transformation
Well, considering the jutsu SZ did wasn't a sentient being, and is just a giant wooden construct, shouldnt he be listed as having all 5 releases?--RexGodwin (talk) 08:24, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, it was the wooden entity that formed a hand sign. Seelentau 愛議 10:04, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've been thinking a lot about this and it's very complicated to determinate. The wooden entity isn't a summon, it's a technique and, relatively, every attack that the construct does, should be attributed to the user, making to Spiral Zetsu, indirectly, a specie that can utilize the five releases. Right now I cannot imagine a technique that is able to produce its own jutsus or its own chakra nature (in this case), except the Summon Technique and the Six Paths of Pain of Obito. Now that I think better, all this stuff could be solved if the big statue would be considered an independent creature, but that would be weird and nonsense. The other issue is that, if Spiral Zetsu is able to use the five nature transformation, in the same way, Hashirama should to be able to, but that is too much speculation and is out of the topic. I'd like to know other opinions to consolidate my thoughts. Leo  Hatake  10:53, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * I see, so I ain't the only one who'd say that if SZ can use all five natures, Hashirama must be able to do so, too... Seelentau 愛議 10:55, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Why is it a nonsense that the statue is a living creature rather than a technique?--Elveonora (talk) 14:50, January 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because its a technique. And anything else is speculation. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 16:37, January 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Because if the entity is considered a living creature, it wouldn't be a technique, would be a character summoned by the users. And then, in that case, we should be able to add that the nature chakra's attack don't have relation with Hashirama and Spiral Zetsu, but at this point, I think that it'd be speculation. Leo  Hatake  19:42, January 22, 2014 (UTC)

Did any of you ever stop to consider that its not even Guruguru using the technique? its been a good long wile since we've seen anything about it, but there was SOMEONE inside of him (with dark hair, my money is on an Uchiha, likely one presumed dead like Izuna). Shadowfox337 (talk) 13:14, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * well i was wrong about it being an Uchiha, but I called it, not his technique, it was the person inside, lol. so NOW you have revise his nature transformations and jutsu and apply them to the right character >:3 Shadowfox337 (talk) 06:47, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Wind Release Stream
How do I add Wind Release Stream to Spiral Zetsu's infobox? Sam (BAZINGA) 17:30, January 29, 2014 (UTC)

Clone of?
The opening line of this says he's a clone of White Zetsu, should he not be listed as a clone of Hashirama Senju? I mean they're both clones of Hashirama, it's not like White Zetsu was made then Spiral Zetsu was duplicated from him, right? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:26, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think you should read (and participate) this http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Zetsu#First_Artificial_Human Faust-RSI (talk) 09:50, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

White Zetsu calls him a clone of himself.--RexGodwin (talk) 21:25, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should remove all "clone" notions now from his page.Faust-RSI (talk) 07:18, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Incapacitated?
Should we label him as incapacitated in his info box? Munchvtec (talk) 12:05, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * How? He's still fighting against Hiruzen right now. So no. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 12:22, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * The last we saw of him was him lying on the ground after Orochimaru bit him, so it's fair enough to list him as incapacitated at the moment. TricksterKing (talk) 12:29, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * We don't change people's status to incapacitated just because of 1 incident. He has to be like that for an extended period of time.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:42, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * The last we saw of him was him overpowering Orochimaru's binding and cursed seal already disappearing.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:32, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

It was disappearing? Well that means he could get back into the fight but I guess don't add him as incapacitated yet then. Munchvtec (talk) 15:31, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

male
Was it actually stated that Guruguru is a clone or White Zetsu?--Elveonora (talk) 15:59, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. Major recton occurred. They are not artificial humans anymore, nor clones. Just "previous victims" of Mugen Tsukuyomi.Faust-RSI (talk) 20:07, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's why I'm asking. White Zetsu was male because databook said so (I believe) and if Guruguru is clone of WZ then so is he, but if he isn't a clone but rather a different person that was trapped in IF, he may not be male--Elveonora (talk) 20:10, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * And yet again you're talking about changes regarding the last two chapters, were different translations are available and no changes should be made because both translations could be wrong. Please stop that and wait for me to get the raw. I mean, it's apparently online, but I've not seen it yet... • Seelentau 愛 議 20:34, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I pretty much doubt that all of them (ms, mp and viz) got that wrong, this time anyway. Would be shocking if they did.--Elveonora (talk) 20:44, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be the first time.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:51, June 29, 2014 (UTC)

As I said on another Talk page, RAW is already available, and I have translation from Japanese reader. Which page are you interested in?Faust-RSI (talk) 21:00, June 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't need translations, I need the full raw. ;) • Seelentau 愛 議 08:37, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * You've got the raws. So the White Zetsus hanging on Gedo Mazo tree were previously human, right?--Elveonora (talk) 14:07, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't have the raws, but I have the forum post. According to it, you're right. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:10, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok. And there's no such statement ever about Guruguru being a clone of the most prominent White Zetsu, right? So Guruguru might not be male. EDIT: also BZ didn't mention any Hashirama cells modification, which leaves how come WZ can use Wood Release and their DNA are akin to Hashirama's a mystery--Elveonora (talk) 14:16, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Only the army was cloned from White Zetsu, Guruguru wasn't. Also, no mystery: Madara imbued the statue with Hashi's cells and only after that, the White Zetsu were pulled out. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * It didn't say he imbued the statue, but that he used the statue to cultivate the cells, that being multiply them. I suppose in similar way how spores reacted to Jugo's Senjutsu and matured. And if he did imbue the statue, then that in itself opens another can of worms, that being the Ten-Tails having Mokuton :P Because you know... having Hash cells = having Mokuton, is that right Orochimaru? :D--Elveonora (talk) 14:28, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how you cultivate cells, sorry. But he had to somehow fuse them with the statue, otherwise, the Zetsus wouldn't have Wood Release, hm? Let's just wait for now. (I mean come on, we all know that in the end, it turns out that the Shinjūbi can use all natures) • Seelentau 愛 議 14:33, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

This is fishy... White Zetsu says that Guruguru is his clone in chapter 604, right? Ugh... I don't know how to process that. The cloning didn't start until they've got their hand on the Tailed Beasts, so why would WZ consider Guruguru to be his clone? Can you please check the raw? I wonder if it says literary clone or just copy or something--Elveonora (talk) 14:38, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * It says bunshin, which is commonly translated as clone. I have no idea what to do with that, either. But no one of us does have to, we can siiiiimply wait for more information. :) • Seelentau 愛 議 14:43, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

As I said somewhere else, Zetsus maybe also misinformed and truly believed to be Madara's creation. It's also known for sure they don't have any memories of their previous life - that's why Guruguru is interested in poo. So they could believe they just a clones of each other. But I have another question. The whole Zetsu Army page is written in a sense ALL 100000 were taken from the GM and were, in fact, also victims of previous MT. So how about that? Major retcon, considering Sakura's and Shizune's research? Faust-RSI (talk) 15:12, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * The page is wrong then. The army were clones of the prominent White Zetsu made using Tailed Beast Chakra--Elveonora (talk) 15:21, June 30, 2014 (UTC)