Talk:Senjutsu

Frog or Toad?
At first it is mentioned that the user will turn into a frog but later it is stated that the user turns into a toad statue. Why?

Name?
I am not sure about the translations, but shouldnt it be called Hermit Techniques, since the others are translated as hermits arts

I think this should be called "Sennin Jutsu" not "Senjutsu", since Senjutsu stands simply for tactical skills (it is proven in the Manga early on, where Sasuke's grades in various Ninja disciplines are shown).


 * It does? Well, in my prediction, the reason that they call it Senjutsu is because to make the term "Sennin Jutsu" shorter to "Senjutsu", this whole Senjutsu name has nothing to do with skill, but to simlify the term. --Rasengan888 15:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's called senjutsu. There's nothing we can do about that.
 * You're not completely correct, though. Although "senjutsu" is the Japanese word for "tactics," that senjutsu and the "sage technique" senjutsu are written with different kanji.
 * That said, I do believe we should decide on a standard translation for "senjutsu"/"senpō". I'd prefer "Sage Technique"/"Sage Art," since the practitioners of senjutsu aren't actually hermits. --ShounenSuki 15:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)]
 * I've done, alot of searching about this. 仙 is hermit, not sage. If it were sage, it would be along hte lines of Seijin or 聖--TheUltimate3 16:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And to prevent the inevitable headache I'm sure you're gonna give me with this Suki, please provide whatever source you have as proof.--TheUltimate3 16:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've done, alot of searching about this. 仙 is hermit, not sage. If it were sage, it would be along hte lines of Seijin or 聖--TheUltimate3 16:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And to prevent the inevitable headache I'm sure you're gonna give me with this Suki, please provide whatever source you have as proof.--TheUltimate3 16:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * A sage is a wise and learned person. A hermit is a person who secluded themselves from society
 * comes from . A sennin is a person (or the spirit of a person) who has gathered so much wisdom and merit that they became immortal and gained the ability to perform miracles and magic. They are said to live in the mountains as hermits. They are basically people who transcended human limitations.
 * In short, the term "sennin" can be translated as both "sage" and "hermit" (it can also be translated as many other things, but "sage" and "hermit" are the most common translations).
 * However, since the sennin in Naruto aren't actually true hermits (although the Toad Sennin do live on a mountain), "sage" seems the more appropriate translation here. --ShounenSuki 16:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That depends on the person you ask. I actually do think they fit the idea of hermit, cause as you said they do live in a mountain, hermits can be all mystical and worldly with the best of them. Regardless, to be fair, and to avoid this going on much longer than it needs to be to avoid the headache I was talking about earlier, it would be best to use both Hermit and Sage in our translations or neither at all. Though that makes all the Hermit Arts techniques an oddity now...--TheUltimate3 16:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Right now, 仙/仙人 is translated as either "sage" or "hermit". This makes the translations inconstant and confusing and overall unprofessional. I believe it would be best to decide on a common translation and only use both where it is appropriate (like in this article, when Senjutsu is translated). --ShounenSuki 16:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And here the headache starts. /sigh
 * You already know my position. Hermit was the first translation used, your whole sennin comment still screamed "hermit" to me, while not justifiable, still speaks to me when Jiraiya first used it, he looked more like a hermit than anything.--TheUltimate3 16:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My apologies for the headache.
 * I would be fine with using hermit. As I said, both translations are technically correct. All I want is consistency. Perhaps we should wait for another's opinion? --ShounenSuki 17:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't be. It's in my personality. I'm a territorial person who dislikes change and hates to get into confrontation and lose, and prone to collect things for no real reason other than the hate of seeing things thrown away. That said, yes we should wait for more people to chime in.--TheUltimate3 17:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

gelel?

I think I will agree with ShounenSuki and say too that Sage is a much more suitable word for Sennin.Hermit ,as it's origin is Greek, is literally someone who has gone to the desert to be alone and meditate so he can achieve connection with God .It really is more attached to the Christian religion than the Buddhistic or Shinto beliefs that Kishimoto uses in Naruto (see Sage of the Six Paths etc.)Also the official tankobon in english use the word Sage to translate Sennin .I know that many are used to hermit since when Jiraiya introduced Sennin Mode this was the first translation and although it may have suited Jiraiya I think that you will agree that Hermit doesn't just fit with Naruto .(he is not old or have cut off his relationships with humans going in a desert and eating locusts for Christ's sake ..!!).Also we call the senjutsu chakra sage chakra and Nagato's idol, the Sage of the Six Paths so we really need consistency in this wiki.--Naruto Namikaze (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * And I agree with TheUltimate3 AlienGamer | Talk 16:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe it should be Sage Mode and not hermit. Naruto has always called Jiraya Pervert Sage. Also, sage is more oriental while hermit is more European. Also, a hermit is someone who lives in solitude while a sage is considered a wise and powerful individual User:Shock Dragoon | User talk:Shock Dragoon 12:39 ETZ May-7-09

naruto volume 25
vol. 25 I was looking at sasukes report card for when he was like 7-8 years old and at the bottom I saw senjutsu on the report card does that mean they teach it in the academy. Although naruto was completely unfamiliar of senjutsu training by the way i saw it on page 77 on volume 25
 * It's a homophone for some other subject, though I don't remember which. Kinda like how Dust Release and Swift Release both are called Jinton in Japanese. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:41, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * Senjutsu is also the Japanese word for tactics. --ShounenSuki (talk 23:30, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Frog or Toad?
It must have been a typo

image
can someone plz upload an image of the sage chakra from the resent episodes to replace the current, i cannot as i have not got a decent image on file Fawcettp (talk) 08:59, April 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * AlienGamer did upload the image you requested, but ShounenSuki took it down.

Here it is If you want to put it back, I won't stop you.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:28, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Translation
Well, I really hate to break it to you, but Senjutsu does not mean Sage Techniques.
 * 仙術, or in it's katakana form, せんじゅつ, is Senjutsu which literally translates to "wizardry" or "secret of immortality". Look it up by Kanji, Katakana and Romanji here. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 04:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is a translation. Other options include:
 * "spiritually immortal; transcendent; super-human; celestial being" (in Daoist/Taoist philosophy and cosmology)
 * "physically immortal; immortal person; immortalist; saint" (in Daoist religion and pantheon)
 * "alchemist; one who seeks the elixir of life; one who practices longevity techniques" or by extension "(alchemical, dietary, qigong) methods for attaining immortality" (in Chinese alchemy)
 * "wizard; magician; shaman" (in Chinese mythology)
 * "genie; elf, fairy; nymph" (in popular Chinese literature, 仙境 xian jing is "fairyland", Faerie)
 * "sage living high in the mountains; mountain-man; hermit; recluse" (folk etymology for the character 仙)
 * "immortal (talent); accomplished person; celestial (beauty); marvelous; extraordinary" (metaphorical modifier)
 * The question is, which makes sense for Jiraiya, a sennin (仙人)? Is he immortal? A wizard? An alchemist? A sage/hermit? A fairy? Occasionally with the last option, more often with the fourth.
 * Additionally, online translators are terrible. The one you used also translates genjutsu (幻術) as magic/witchcraft. And that's bullshit isn't it? ~SnapperTo 04:28, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Different contexts, different meanings. Dictionaries of any kind are never foolproof.
 * In normal, real-life use, "senjutsu" does refer to wizardry and the secret of immortality. However, the kanji literally refer to the art of sages. In the context of Naruto, "sage techniques" is a perfectly fine translation and translating it as "wizardry" is simply wrong.
 * The same goes for "genjutsu", by the way. In real-life use, translating it as "magic" or "witchcraft" is quite acceptable. In the context of Naruto, that translation falls horribly short. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:05, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Wait
So if I am reading this right then Senjutsu chakra is Yin + Yang + Natural energy?Umishiru (talk) 03:52, February 4, 2011 (UTC)