Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-31672013-20180831233027/@comment-27924662-20180921100535

CombatIQmatters wrote: Kurenai caught both of them. Kisame was clearly caught by the tree branches as well. It appeared that she focused on finishing itachi first, but that was her own mistake due to inexperience, and as a result the genjutsu was completely broken and reversed. If it was just kisame kisame would have died. Than you should read chapter 141 Itachi Uchiha again, because Kisame was cutting Asuma into "ribbons" while she tried to attack Itachi. CombatIQmatters wrote: What proof is there that jiraiya has faster hand seals than kakashi? Kakashi has the sharingan, he can instantly percieve jiraiya's hand seals and even copy them if he wants to. Jiraiya doesn't have itachi level hand seal speed. Yumi noma gets copied and used on jiraiya, and now all of them are stuck in the swamp, except now jiraiya gets caught in genjutsu, and guy opens the gates to break free of the mud and blitzes him, and kakashi can still cast ninjutsu even if he is immobolized. Kakashi can use lightning style to diffuse the mud around his teammates, and leave jiriaya trapped in his own mud, GG jiraiya. Jiraiya is experienced enough to not use ninjutsu like that against the sharingan. He would use toad summons and jutsu that he can overpower kakashi with, anything else is just copy ninja food. Also, yumi noma has only caught a huge fodder snake summon which didn't have any skills or experience and the human path of pain who was caught off guard and already using chakra to stick to the ceiling. IF jiraiya uses the seals for yumi noma off the bat, the jonin will see it coming and simply run chakra on their feet to stand on top of the swamp before it immobilizes them. While he is focused on trying to make it sink them, the jounin have initiative. Oh no one said Jiraiya is faster in hand seal, you should read it again, the only thing i said was Jiraiya's hand seal are faster than Guy or Kakashi's approach. And if copying is truly an option than scale and power of jutsu will differ. Especially in this case. Also Kakhi can't copy collaboration ninjutsu too. He gets rekt like the time with Kakuzu. And even if Kakahsi sees the seal it's not gonna work, the techniques range is really very large enough to sink largest of the summons easily. And perhaps you should check what bog is, it ain't water where you can stand via chakra and escape from. once you are trapped any movement is end of story, no movement is end of story. Only flying could help you. or someone outside of technique with a rope. Heck Jiraiya got three pains in a restricted area. This team has no counters to the technique. CombatIQmatters wrote: This isn't a 1v1 battle. It's a 1v4 battle. If jiraiya stops to clash rasengan with kakahsi's raikiri, he still has a leaf whirlwind coming at him from the right, and asuma's trench knifes coming at him from the left, and kurenai close behind. He needs to choose his first action wisely or he isn't living long enough to even cast a summoning jutsu in the first place.

Jiraiya 's summons and toad guourd have to resolve in the first place. 1 Vs 4 in Pain's hideout, and you are claiming that he won't be able to use hand signs or summon. That's over-exaggeration. If it was open field perhaps i could agree, there are so many chance of using summons via stealthy approach especially considering how Jiraya is the best infiltrator of Leaf. And before you make some comments about resolving just remember against Pain it took him single hand sign to use the toad mouth trap and finish the mutlti headed dog. So you shoukd be the one to point out something faster than that.