Board Thread:Episode Discussions/@comment-3261234-20150226122433/@comment-2043993-20150302072709

Hawkeye2701 wrote: Tzao wrote: That's the problem with letting your opponent live and learn, or just pass on their intel, it was the same problem that handed Nagato his defeat, and Zabuza, and Hanzo, Hidan, Neji and a slew of other characters, they were all defeated because their opponents found a way to beat them based on knowledge of their abilities aquired beforehand. I agree wth Nagato and Hidan, but the otther three?

Zabuza lost the second time because he didn't know about Kakashi's Ninken, he had already eliminated Kakashi's sharingan from the equation, and had the upper hand. At best, Kakashi knew a handful of his techniques, but couldn't really do jack besides, this is more proof that Zabuza did this to Kakashi, not the other way around.

Hanzo lost cause he had gotten weak and complacent and Nagato killed him. He only realised this when he fought Mifune, who had been beaten by Hanzo in his prime. You could argue he only realised his weakness by allowing Mifune to live and learn, but then there were people like the Sannin who had survived battle with Hanzo and were still no more willing to try and fight him.

As for Neji, he died cause Obito attempted to cheap shot Naruto. That had nothing to do with knowing his techniques. The only time Neji was ever actually handed a defeat was by Naruto, and it's less that he had somehow played his hand when he fought Hinata and more that Neji himself underestimated his opponent.

There's certainly truth in what you say, Lee and Shira have played their hands fairly openly and others can take advantage of that, but your examples are rather broad. examples rather broad: point taken

When I said defeat, I didn't neccessarily mean that the character was killed, my mistake for not clarifying that, but:

I still think that Kakashi won because he knew about Zabuza's over-reliance on hiding in the mist and used that against him (coupled with him closing his eyes). True, Kakashi only knew a handful of his opponents' techniques, but the same was the case with Zabuza.

Hanzo lost to Mifune because he'd already told him about his weakness and Mifune had developed some resistance to his poison and utilised talk-no-jutsu against Hanzo. Though I do admit that his defeat was mostly his own doing for forcing himself to commit seppuke. As for the sannin not wanting to fight Hanzo, Jiraiya thought that Hanzo was still at the top of his game, so of course he wouldn't want to fight him, no sane person would want to.

As for Neji, I realise that I was too hasty to declare that he lost to Naruto due to knowing about his abilities before hand.