Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26388300-20160301040622/@comment-27660682-20160320072952

SuperSaiyaMan wrote: MlGshinobi wrote: It matters because you claimed that since hashriama couldn't beat jubbi obito but sasuke/ naruto could and thus they surpassed him. But I counter that because they only did so with plot armor plus the help of entire alliance. Uh what? No you missed my argument entirely. Hashirama is weaker than Juubi Jin Obito. However, when Naruto achieved Six Paths Sage Mode and Sasuke achieved the Rinnegan, they both got stronger individually than any Juubi Jin from their feats. Pre-Hagoromo they were, at best, Hashirama and Madara's equals, after, they surpassed them. By adulthood, Naruto and Sasuke were dealing with threats that Hashirama has zero chance against and were winning. Cutting him in half is irrelevant, madara knows he is immortal so tanking those hits was child's play for him. He " resorted"to infinite tsyukyomi because that was his whole plan from the beginning. He came back from the dead for this goal. He needed his other eye so he got away and got it and naruto and sasuke couldn't stop him from doing so. Sasuke even remarks " shit" as he failed to stop madara from escaping.after they survived tsyukyomi he was ready to demolish them but plot armor saves the day as black zetsu betrays madara right at that moment. The chibaku tensi and limbo clones were purely a distraction and it occupied naruto and sasuke while madara accomplished his dream. It does matter. Despite being 'immortal', it showed Naruto and Sasuke had the power to deal with him. And Madara isn't actually immortal, he can die and both Naruto and Sasuke had the capability of doing so from their feats. Madara realized he couldn't defeat them hence why he resorted to distractions and Mugen Tsukuyomi. Naruto alone effortlessly dealt with the Chibaku Tensei and Limbo Clones too. Sasuke doesn't have anywhere the amount of battle experience that hashirama has who has been fighting and killing uchiha adults since he waa a kid in the most hostile era of shinobi history. I never said hashirama is in the level of a jubbi jin but this is now a 1v1 fight with no plot armor. Edo hashriama overwhelmed edo rinnegan madara who also had hashirama's techniques and hashirama wasn't even using his top budda. By feats hashirama can destroy perfect susanoo, has sage mode, experience battling the rinnegan,  healing factor etc. Sasuke probably wins most likely because of his power up but am I very skeptical of that, and sasuke' s best feats against naruto were only after he absorb ed the chakra of the tailed beasts which he doesn't have in this fight. Your biased argument doesn't make sense. You admit Hashirama isn't in the same level of power as or caliber as Juubi Jins or Kaguya, yet you claim that since he's killed far weaker Uchiha than Sasuke, he stands a chance against Adult Rinnegan Sasuke. And you claim its 'plot armor'? Seriously, that shows you have zero argument other than your own bias. You ignore or downplay any of Naruto and Sasuke's feats, claiming plot, while exaggerating Hashirama's. Oh and Hashirama never defeated Edo Madara, Madara played him for a fool the entire time and was holding back, we saw this when Madara kicked his ass when he came right back to life.

Sasuke (and Naruto) are GOD TIER characters now, and have been since they were teenagers (post-Hagoromo). Naruto is a pseudo Juubi Jin who can use all the powers of the Biju on top of having Gudodama and able to use massive amounts of Natural energy. Sasuke can travel between dimensions, destroy village sized meteors with a fricking Chidori, etc. Hashirama and Madara are not the best anymore. They aren't even close to being the best anymore. Stop whining 'plot' everytime a superior feat to their's is pointed out, and just accept they have been surpassed by a tremendous amount. You have a losing argument otherwise. Except that madara wasn't holding back, it was stated multiple times that even with kabuto's perfection, edo tensi are still weaker than their real life self. Hashriama even said " madara is back to his original strength" once he was revived. Obviously, if hashriama was also brought back to life he would continue to dominate.

Like I said, madada effectively distracted naruto and sasuke and complete d his goal. Oh yea? So how does a person who isn't immortal survive bisection with ease? Naruto and sasuke needed the seals if they wanted to take him down and they couldn't even stop him from casting tsyukyomi. They tried to seal him but he stopped it with limbo substitution. Naruto and sasuke were no where near the equals of hashriama and madada pre hag gift. Sasuke was casually rekt by a blind madara. And sasuke and naruto individually stood no chance against any jubbi Jin either. Madara was the better of them and waa about to kill them if not for zetsu. And against kaguya it was a 4 on 1 fight.

Yea due to hag gift sasuke has the strength to beat hashriama but hashirama still has massive power of his own. And no I call plot when it clearly was plot that allowee their survival.