Talk:Zetsu

Split the page Part 2
As I said in Part 1, we should split the page. Here's why: In Chapter 521, page 4, Madara referred "White Zetsu" and "Black Zetsu". Yatanogarasu 21:31, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * That would just make it more difficult to refer to Zetsu prior to chapter 450. ~SnapperTo 22:09, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * No. While his two halves might have two very different personalities, they are still the same Zetsu. Read about multiple personality disorder and you'll understand. Cicaneo (talk) 22:18, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

Games
how many games did Zetsu appear User:Gamma Venom 567

How to Handle the White Zetsu Army
Right now he's listed as not having been in combat, but now that some of his White Sides have been in combat that's not exactly the case. They're both part of him and also separate and multiple, so I'm not exactly sure how to write that. Also, should 'White Zetsu Army' be in his teams? It's kinda true. Upgrade of the abilities section at least is needed. ZeroSD (talk) 05:47, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there is a clear difference between Zetsu's white side and the 100.000 White Zetsu. It seems a good idea to me to keep them as separate as possible to avoid confusion. —ShounenSuki (talk 06:33, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, an army Zetsu is merely a white-half that's kept separate and can be replaced, eventually plus some boosting from Kabuto. Come to think of it, the Zetsu at the Kage meeting still had the half-face thing so that one wasn't an 'army Zetsu' per se. So our ignorance of his ability to fight is mostly black-half. In any case, they are his jutsu/body/whatever.ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * They might be similar, but the army Zetsu have (or haven't) shown several things that make them distinct from Zetsu himself.
 * They can open their bodies like flytraps.
 * They don't seem to have personalities or even true consciousness.
 * They have complete bodies.
 * They are powered up by the Shodai clone.
 * —ShounenSuki (talk 06:50, January 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * True. So the only normal White Zetsu we've seen is the one at the Kage meet. ZeroSD (talk) 06:42, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

unsensable
i truly dont see what iss wrong with zetsu not beiing able to be sensed and that he is the land itself in the ability corner


 * Because that is a consequence of Mayfly, which is already explained. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

mayfly talk about merging with the earth,not to be the land itself--178.118.121.7 (talk) 20:28, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

If he merges with it, he becomes it. If not, it's something that will be further clarified in upcoming chapters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

it doesn't exactly looks like his mayfly power,when he becomes the land itself,i think it is something we should note --The tyrant kuma (talk) 20:32, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Personality
First paragraph under personality: "the black half is more serious and intelligent while the white half is carefree, easygoing, and seems to enjoy toying with others".

I'm not quite sure what is meant by "enjoy[s] toying with others" - playfulness? Sadism? What scene is this inference based upon? I don't mean to be nit-picky here, I just want some clarification. Zetsu is a mysterious enough character as it is. Cicaneo (talk) 03:24, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Zetsu's Root Thing
I'm not entirely sure how to even word this on the page, but I also wanted to get a general opinion about it before I changed anything. Currently it says: Zetsu can also use it to extend roots underground through which he can communicate with his other half should they be separated. What I noticed in the pic though was the motion lines, where he came out of the ground. It seems to me what he is doing is more like using the white-zetsu material remaining that forms his other leg to extend the roots and actually the white zetsu shown growns out from the end of those roots. In other words, that white zetsu wasn't already there to connect with, but grew out of the root's end to communicate. That would explain the motion lines like he was just coming out of the ground, and it would certainly fit in with what's been seen of the white zetsu's abilities, to form so many clones like that. I do think it should be changed from what it currently says, but I want to run it by people since it would also change the meaning of what's being said 98.71.99.102 (talk) 01:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah
 * Remember that they have one body and the black half isn't black entirely. Neither do i think it was a clone as never seen a clone of Zetsu with the flytrap appendages before and for some reason I think if the black half of Zetsu had made a clone it wouldn't have spoken the "carefree" way it did. From what i saw after extending the roots that "stuff" that came down ran along to another set of roots.--Cerez365™☺ 01:40, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

it did, it connected with the normal tree roots and suddenly started growing along them at what seemed like a greater pace. But the thing about the spikes is a good point. I know he's not totally black though, that was why I was thinking that left leg helps black zetsu keep in touch with other zetsu bodies, because it's still enough to use some of the white zetsu ability. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:14, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

I guess it's fine as it is for the moment, but what peaks my interest is that when his head pops out of the ground it's got those 3 tentacles sticking out of the side of his head leading into the ground. That's a bit different, but I do get the point about the spikes. 98.71.99.102 (talk) 02:27, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Those distorted attached things are always, there. Check any the concept of Zetsu at the end of the article. His leg looked like that in the manga and anime as well, and his head also looked a bit like that when he moved around watching Sasuke and Itachi's fight. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:32, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * That normally happens when they use Mayfly technique though.--Cerez365™☺ 02:33, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if you're talking about the spikes that always seem to surround him, those I know are always there, but what I'm talking about is that if you look at the latest chapter there is one picture in particular that clearly shows the ends of the roots that extended from black zetsu's white foot attached to the head of the white zetsu that pops out of the ground. Those have never showed up on his head before. I went back as well and looked at all the other zetsu appearances, and the one that struck me was in chapter 486 when white zetsu went to tell madara they were in trouble, the white zetsu next to sasuke never moved, another white one just appeared next to madara in his hideout, though the same roots couldn't be seen attached to his head, so perhaps that's a black zetsu thing. Since white zetsu's location wasn't shown it could be him the roots connected to so perhaps it's not a clone, but the 486 chapter seems to show white zetsu making a new white zetsu appear somewhere else to relay the info 98.71.99.102 (talk) 13:47, April 24, 2011 (UTC)miah

Wood Release
Chapter 545 Page 3: "Based on how many there are, I would assume they're living plant clones grown from cells harvested from the First Hokage! They're weaker, but can still use Mokuton!" Timeel39 (talk) 16:11, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason you put this here Timeel? —Fmakck (Images 16:13, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I put it in his infobox but someone took it out =P Was I wrong to put it there? Timeel39 (talk) 16:17, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * But can Zetsu himself use Mokuton? Madara did modify the clones. —Fmakck (Images 16:22, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll admit to being a tad confused on that front and would really prefer if we wait for raws or some more direction with this =S--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:25, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me, you can never really trust scanlations. —Fmakck (Images 16:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！ I got it from here: http://topmangaspoilers.info/ does that count? It translates roughly as "However weak, they use Wood Release!" (I'm not as proficient as translating from Japanese as others) Timeel39 (talk) 17:07, June 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Text spoilers are wrong way too often and are unreliable, wait for the raw. —Fmakck (Images 18:28, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the RAW says exactly the same: 「うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし！」 - "Uzumatte yowaikedo Mokuton o tsukaushi". And Timeel's translation is correct, as far as I can see. But I can't imagine how they usw Mokuton. Only because they have the cells? They'd still need Water Chakra and Earth Chakra to mold the Wood Chakra. I think Sakura's just referring to the cells and not to an possible ability to use Mokuton... Seelentau 愛議 02:59, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I always considered that if you have the genes for a certain combination, you will automatically have an affinity for those two. If Zetsu can use Wood Release, by definition, he can also use Earth Release and Water Release. There's no point in, let's say, being able to use Storm Release, but not being able to change your chakra into water and lightning natured chakra to merge them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:06, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, there's no point. But we know that ones affinity lies in his heart and not his cells. Otherwise, Kakuzu wouldn't have all five natures. In the end, this is just one more topic to be solved in the future. Maybe we'll get more information in the upcoming chapter. Seelentau 愛議 03:34, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * The heart is made of cells isn't it? I've always been sceptical about it, because if you have genes, you have them in all your cells. Unless there's a unknown rule which says that the genes which allow such combinations are in the heart alone, I don't see why it should be the heart. The one other big deal about chakra and heart we know about is that it seems to be the most import point in the chakra pathway system, as Kabuto almost killed Naruto by disconnecting his heart from the rest of his body, meaning the Nine-Tails' chakra couldn't kick in and heal him, and because there's where the last of the Eight Gates is located. Unless there's such a "gene responsible for chakra affinity which is expressed only in the heart" thing, every transplanted body part should be able to generate a chakra which leans towards a certain affinity. I'm taking biomedicine, I think I know more about genetics than Kishimoto. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:47, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, first of all, Danzo has used Wood, but not water and wind. Second, Zetsu's body itself may be similar to wood release, being able to merge with plants and flora via Mayfly. Third, his absorption techniques is like plant roots absorbing nutrients. Fourth, his Substitute Technique allows him to alter his cells, "cells" as in Hashirama's Wood Release cells. Will any of these help determine whether Zetsu has Wood Release? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * zetsu or white zetsu in particular is made from hashiramas cells just like yamato. a kekkei genkai is a special ability that comes from ones DNA. regardless of if he originally had water and earth release having wood release means that you atomatically have water and earth releases like danzo he never really showed wood release but he had it and he didint use water or earth release yet you gave him them. also just being able to use two chakra natures or more does not mean one can combine them to create the advanced chakra nature. like kakashi he has water, fire (in anime), earth, and lightning release and preassumably wind release but he cant use the advanced elements of them like boil release, lava release, or storm release. oh and hashirama has not used water or earth release and you give him that. look the bottom line is since has the cells regardless of how weak it is or if he can or has the potential to use water and earth release its still in his DNA.

WellShounensuki's translation is basically the same thing, but I still have to ask, do we list them (Zetsu and the clones) as wood release users now? --Cerez365™ 14:58, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think it will hurt to wait until at least one Mokuton ability is demonstrated. Faust-RSI (talk) 15:10, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that description should be enough to say Zetsu has Wood Release, though not enough to mark any of his techniques as Wood Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:29, July 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * So are we going to do this? From the "it's even more like Yamato's than before" comment, I think it's safe to say that:
 * The original Zetsu (at least White Zetsu) can use Wood Release, due to being made from harvested cells of the First Hokage. If he's the clones are more similar than they were before, it means they were already similar before, meaning Wood Release already in the original.
 * The White Zetsu Army can also use Wood Release, as they're made from the original Zetsu, as well as being powered/modified by Yamato.
 * Anyone disagrees? If so why. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly it's along the same lines of Danzō's use of Mokuton but do you mean are we going to list them as users O_o? because it's already mentioned in their articles.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:33, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * But not in their infoboxes or in the nature transformation article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm all for listing them then, it follows logic and manga stuff.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:42, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bump.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:35, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wood Release is already there, I added it to those relevant pages about three days ago. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:48, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just realised =_="--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:50, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Real Whitezetsu
How can we be sure he was made from Hashis cells, as Sakura did an autopsy on one of the clones, who were grown from the Hashirama tree/Yamato. For all we know the clones aren't even actual clones of Zetsu, just taking his appearance. (scare tactic)--RexGodwin (talk) 00:37, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sakura also said the Zetsu at the summit had similar DNA to Yamato. The Zetsu clones DNA became more like Yamato's after he was used to power them up.--Deva 27 00:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Yeah now that I Reread that I see. But when did Sakura get that information on the original? He didn't die at the Summit.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:19, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Raikage killed a Zetsu remember? Probably got a sample from that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:26, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah that was the real one. He was shown splitting off from the black one and had been with Sasuke until he came out of the ground infront of the Kages.--RexGodwin (talk) 01:38, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Still a clone of the original, meaning it has the same DNA. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:40, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean. He's still the real White Zetsu. There's only one real White Zetsu. The one we've seen the most. He was shown using clones, but we know there is an original that is usually attached to the black one. The real one got choked by A, and ge didn't create clones till later.

The Zetsu that the Raikage killed set up a Spore Technique, from which other Zetsu appeared. They're clone-like, but not really clones. Considering they're made from Zetsu, it's reasonable to assume that they must have been able to get something from those. There are two possibilities: either the Zetsu the Raikage killed was a clone, who can use the original's techniques just like him, or it was the original White Zetsu, which would mean that there's no real "original" White Zetsu, meaning that as long as there's a White Zetsu, others can be created from it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:27, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll try to clear some things out:
 * 1. The Zetsu Raikage "killed" was the real one, because only real White Zetsu has a "normal" flytrap. Apparently, he wasn't killed (as it takes more to kill him than break his neck). Karin saw his chakra after his neck was broken and it is was normal just like everyone else (chapter 464, page 11).
 * 2. The clones from Spore Technique are perfectly normal, they just didn't need to fully grow in the summit, their purpose was to absorb chakra and restrict movements. But as shown in chapter 486, pages 3-4, they are able to form full bodies. So, even if they didn't get the body of real Zetsu during the summit, they got plenty of his spore-clones, which DNA must be the same. Faust-RSI (talk) 09:05, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Karin only started feeling his chakra again when the Spore Technique activated, meaning that the spores drained chakra of those with it and grew itself. Most likely what she detected was Zetsu's chakra from the spores, which began producing chakra after it started draining. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:23, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Whatever the method, he wasn't killed back then, at least permanently, that's the point. Faust-RSI (talk) 05:42, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Zetsu's Techniques
Mayfly, Mayfly Communication Technique, Spore Technique, should they be considered Wood Release? It's official that he can use Wood Release techniques. Those techniques have something to do with plants and the earth. OmegaRasengan (talk) 02:22, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Though that may be true, I think we should wait until they're officially listed as such given that it was called weak as well as the general lack of information that we have on all of it.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:27, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well its been a while, I think we should classify them as wood release. Madara uses a technique almost exactly like the Mayfly in recent manga and it is because of wood release. I say we at least add it as wood release and possibly make Madara a user. Skarrj (talk) 12:12, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing has changed. What Madara did was simply hide in a tree. Mayfly is much more than that and only characteristic of Zetsu.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:15, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

name meaning
what does his name mean?, just wondering --Caseather (talk) 04:05, July 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw somewhere that it meant (絶, Eradicate) but it'd be best that you ask User:ShounenSuki about that.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 04:52, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

The death of white zetsu
I think it happened just last chapter with Sasuke killing him. Anyone else agree? 67.184.16.75 (talk) 20:46, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think Sasuke's final Susano'o killed a zetsu clone... I think that was the original white zetsu. He only has half a face, whereas all the clones have a full white zetsu body.  67.184.16.75 (talk) 20:44, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree, that might not be the real Zetsu given that it dodn't have any of the aloe vera appendages. That along with the fact that we've seen one of his clones act in the same manner during Team 7's reunion in chapter 541. I think we should wait until it's said so definitively.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:48, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * True, Zetsu has made clones that looked like that one now that I think about it. 67.184.16.75 (talk) 21:08, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * the clones in the war were produced by gedo mazo flower thing ,wile the half faces ones are by White Zetsu.--Linkdarkside (talk) 22:10, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Also he wasn't wearing the other half of Zetsu's pants. --ChaosLove (talk) 23:31, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Some people really lack attention, so I'm doing this the hard way.


 * 1. This is original White Zetsu:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6872/originalyw.jpg
 * He ALWAYS has his flaytrap things.


 * 2. This is White Zetsu regular clone:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7476/clonef.jpg
 * It looks the same but lacks the flytrap


 * 3. This is the soldiers of White Zetsu Army: http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1774/armyv.jpg
 * They look different because they have complete bodies, they are green and have spikes because of Kabutos use of Yamato DNA to make them stronger. Why I'm talking about them? Because some people can't see the difference between regular Zetsu clone and Zetsu Army soldiers.


 * 4. And now this: http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/5816/zertsu.jpg
 * I've even lightened it. It's clear that this Zetsu doesn't have flytrap things. Thus, it's a regular clone. Editing. Faust-RSI (talk) 00:28, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance issue
Maybe for somebody this is old news or maybe for someone it was never a question. But participating on several Naruto-related forums I know for sure there is an issue with Zetsu's flytrap-extensions (or spikes, when they White and Black are separated). The main and obvious question is - is the flytrap a jutsu or is it some kind of mutation, real part of his body? Maybe having a flytrap as a part of the body sounds to unreal even for "Naruto" manga, but after it was explained (at least) White Zetsu is an artificial being, this issue became popular again. The last chapter showed us Blach Zetsu can freely manipulate his spikes turning them into roots possibly through Mokuton jutsu. But more importantly, when he was immobilised and injured and said he couldn't move, the spikes completely disappeared, indicating they are a jutsu or a Mokuton related ability, but not a real part of his body. So, I propose to add this information into Zetsu's abilities or appearance section.Faust-RSI (talk) 13:48, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Now this I understand. However, I am against adding this information. Yes he can apparently manipulate the extensions into roots (maybe that was just a side-effect) because of his Wood Release ability, but in that frame you cannot see his entire body. It could simply be that the extensions are still there and you're assuming that they should have been visible (part of his hand is still transformed by the way). It could also be that the extensions can function in the same manner as autotomy does (the thing lizards do with their tails). I'd have been fine with this had his whole body been shown but the wikia isn't here to appease people in forums.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:24, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Looking more closely - yes, you can't tell for sure how much of the upper part of his body is shown. But on the page 10 it is clearly visible he losses every extension that was transformed into root. Now you can argue that once transformed, the extensions becomes renewable (as in your example with lizards), but this only strengthens the point - extensions are jutsu, and the can be "cancelled" whenever he wants without harming his body as if they were his real body part.Faust-RSI (talk) 15:03, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well then, that would mean that it was the real White Zetsu that was killed at Mountain's Graveyard which would explain a fair amoutn. However I think that we should at least wait for a better explanation of the extensions or image where we can see that they're gone entirely before adding something like that.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:12, November 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's pretty clear neither White, nor Black Zetsu will cancel it willingly, and in the picture of the death of that clone there wasn't a sign of cancelling :p Ok, let's wait.Faust-RSI (talk) 16:02, November 5, 2011 (UTC)

More Wood Release techniques
Since we now know that Zetsu can use Wood Release, can we classify Mayfly and Mayfly Communication Technique as Wood Release ninjutsu? 119.154.65.16 (talk) 05:46, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because we know he can use Wood Release? . There's also another discussion that took place about this already.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 09:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

White Zetsu's Death
In this page, the main white zetsu is mentioned as being stabbed by sasuke using a sword, wasn't it an arrow?--TricksterKing (talk) 20:58, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * blade, not sword. We dunno what is it exactly so it's being left "ambiguous"--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:02, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

His page is not yet updated, someone willing to do that and list him as dead ? --Elveonora (talk) 21:53, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * It already states that White Zetsu is dead. Since Zetsu has two sides you can't exactly list him as being deceased with Black Zetsu still alive. That's the best that can be done in the current situation.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:05, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

I always thought about black and white "Zetsu" as two separate characters ... but I guess ur right, it's simpliest this way. --Elveonora (talk) 22:07, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

Black Zetsu has been pinned to the ground and can't move, similar to Hidan. Would it be inappropriate to list Zetsu as incapacitated? The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 00:11, February 16, 2012 (UTC))

Re: The Zetsu's status
So, since we have a little issue with Shiro Zetsu being dead and Kuro Zetsu being alive (at least for the time being, I was wondering if this revision (the status section) would be all-right with everyone. I know it's not what we regularly do, but given that we have no other way to deal with it unless we split the articles...--Cerez365™ 22:25, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

I think thats a fairly good idea, maybe needs something about the white zetsu army's status.--TricksterKing (talk) 22:37, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about Zetsu how or why would we put them in that infobox O.o?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:45, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

We've seen some of the army display a personality now that the original died, we still don't know how the original was made, so one of them could theoretically be white zetsu possessing the army, so unless all are dead, perhaps he hasn't died yet.--TricksterKing (talk) 22:54, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * They've displayed persona a long time before White Zetsu's death though. We're working with what is known instead of assumptions.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:00, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough.--TricksterKing (talk) 23:01, February 18, 2012 (UTC)

@white zetsu's status & chapter 574: on page 9, first panel, the white zetsu clone says nothing more than: (「お前・・・まさかボク達のオリジナルを・・・！！」, "omae... masaka boku tachi no orijinaru o...!!") ...so someting like (sorry for my poor japanese and english) "you... could it be that our original...!!". but it was not explicitly state that their original was killed, nor anything else was done to him. or is it crucial what happend in chapter 553 and that's the only reason for white zetsu's status? Johnny/ジョニー (talk)
 * We clearly saw Sasuke killing the White Zetsu that was in charge of looking after him. In this chapter, the White Zetsu practically says that the Zetsu watching Sasuke was the original. Even if for you that's not an explicit statement, listing White Zetsu as deceased would be the least speculative thing to do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * yeah, i see. i just wanted to make clear that in 574, there wasn't any mention by white zetsu clone about their original "being killed". Johnny/ジョニー (talk)

Since Black Zetsu is slashed in half and unable to move, would it be alright to put incapacitated instead of alive in his entry on the infobox? The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 01:31, March 4, 2012 (UTC))
 * Incapacitated is usually for more permanent states. Black Zetsu's not even unconscious. Chōjūrō just has him pinned down with Hiramekarei. For all we know that battle could still be waging on.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:48, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu's "background"
The part about being made from Hashirama's cells by Tobi and having access to Wood Release ... are they not talking just about Zetsu Clone Army ? We don't know if the original Zetsu possess Wood Relase and stating Tobi made him is kinda speculation. After Kabuto enhanced them with Yamato, their DNA became even more similar to 1st Hokage. Their DNA is like that of plants ... being like a plant does not mean to have Wood Release, Tobi is a proof of this since he has not yet shown any Wood Release power. Where I'm heading is that it's possible "White Zetsu" was a character before and he ended like that after experimentations on him with Hashirama's cells. The clone killed at the summit was made from Hashirama's Living Clone, but we don't know if the original Zetsu was as well.

This would mean there is no "original" White Zetsu since all of the clones are made the same way as him so "White Zetsu" is ... White Zetsus.

The way it's worded seems like White Zetsu was made just complete Black Zetsu. We don't know the origins neither of them, so please to re-word it a bit. --Elveonora (talk) 20:43, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 574 more or less confirmed that there is (was?) an original White Zetsu and that the army clones aren't related to the clones at the Kage Summit, since they were surprised to hear that the original might be dead and the half-faced ones that appeared after the summit were said to be controlled by the original. Which imples that the clone left at the summit was made of the same thing as the original was.--BeyondRed (talk) 02:30, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the clone at the summit was like the original ... not enhanced with Yamato like the "Clone Army" but that does not confirm he was created by Tobi, nor by someone. He could be a person before to begin with, that was experimented upon ... thus we don't know what the background/s of "Zetsu" is/are. Just the way it's worded sounds too speculative, like if it was clearly stated in manga or something while it was not. --Elveonora (talk) 15:53, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Much better now, thanks Omni. --Elveonora (talk) 16:47, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Update: From what I understood of the latest episode, only the Zetsu Clone Army enhanced with Yamato has Wood Release. --Elveonora (talk) 00:03, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * When was it said otherwise?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:26, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Should not we change the infobox then ? --Elveonora (talk) 13:02, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, it seems as though I misunderstood your previous post. Not too sure what bearing the anime has on stuff but from what I understood from the manga and what has been said before the White Zetsu Army clone's DNA was almost identical to that of Hashirama's from Shizune and Sakura autopsy. I don't think anything has changed since then.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:21, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Do we have a translation from ShounenSuki on this ? My points:
 * even if the "original" Zetsu Clone Army individual's DNA (before Yamato enhancement) is similar to Hashirama, still no proof that the original true Zetsu (we don't know if the original is black or white, they can be 2 different people, I don't believe they are just an experiment) has a Wood Release.


 * From what I understood, the original Zetsu Clone's DNA is like that of plants, and after Yamato enhancement they have gained Wood Release.

Kinda confused with these, each translation says it a bit differently and even recent anime episode made it sound that way that I do interpret it.
 * On what kind of clone the autopsy was being done ?

So, do we have enough evidence to state the original White or Black Zetsus have Wood Releas and are made/created of Hashirama's matter ? Can't Zetsu be similar to Yamato to begin with, humans being experimented on ? --Elveonora (talk) 13:57, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

The fact that the Black Zetsu, which was never stated to have been enhanced by Yamato, leads credence to the thought that he...it could already use Wood Release. And if I remember correctly, Sakura said "Their DNA is even more like teh 1st Hokage's than before. I'm certain they're using Captain Yamato to increase their fighting capacity" Skitts (talk) 14:02, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

I also remember reading many things, the most precise translation would be appreciated --Elveonora (talk) 14:15, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Unamed Technique
Zetsu was shown to use a unamed technique where he manipulates roots from his body that go into the ground and then reach out towards beneath the target and rising up to entangle them. Exact chapter and 562 page 9. should a page be made for this and if so i think i have a good name for it called Kanuri which is the japanese translation for Wild vines. so what peoples oppinions of this matter? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 15:30, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure that counts as a technique, but even if it does, it received no name or description in Japanese, so it would be an unnamed technique with a place-holder name until it is named. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:36, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu's appearance in Part I
Should we count a 2 second glance over at the end of an episode as a real appearance ? I don't think we should in all honesty. --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:22, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * If that isn't an appearance, I'm not too sure what is...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:09, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because I don't believe that a 2 second appearance counts as a real appearance in the series. Zetsu mainly appears in Shippuden. The Part I section could be removed and just made one sentence before the arc stuff for Part II (like, Zetsu briefly appeared at the end of Episode 134 after having recorded and seen the whole battle between Naruto and Sasuke) --Speysider (Talk Page) 13:14, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Still an appearance, he even speaks there--Elveonora (talk) 14:17, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu History
According to the Zetsu page, Zetsu was created by Senju with genetic spore plant things, when was this revealed? And isn't possible this is just rumors reated by the naruto writers as usual? Like how thier was a controversy on Zetsu's white persona death, or is it that this character is teh only akatsuki character without much importance to the story line? Because that's unlikely considering that every akatsuki has a back story?--6th Mizukage (talk) 01:17, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Read topics above, I'm asking the same thing ... --Elveonora (talk) 01:20, May 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes but for now we don't know that it's not true. If that were the case then we should treat everything in the manga as a (possible) lie o.O? When it is revealed to be false it will be treated accordingly. I also don't really see the merit in saying "almost all Akatsuki members have a storyline so Zetsu must have one too" He more than likely does have one but that doesn't mean he wasn't grown in a petri dish. There might be a number of reasons why they've taken so long to give his background story.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 02:32, May 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes that does seem reasonable, it just seems with white zetsu dieing and all you'd think that the writers would give zetsu a good backstory and if not it would be kind of a waist of a good character.--6th Mizukage (talk) 22:06, May 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Assuming White Zetsu is in fact dead. You never know.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:09, May 10, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 526
Page 6, Black Zetsu demonstrated the ability to fuse with the land, but it seems he could also see through the environment as his eye became visible. Would this be considered the same as Mayfly or is it a different technique? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:01, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

It's mayfly--Elveonora (talk) 23:03, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I just find it peculiar that he specifically praised his (Black Zetsu's) powers, yet White Zetsu can use that technique too? Seems like he would've said "our" powers instead. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:09, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

It might originate from the black half, unless someone can provide a chapter page for white one using it alone. Makes you wonder why didn't they attack ambush style (clone army) from underground. But by the way... black/white Zetsus are considered as one entity, "Zetsu"--Elveonora (talk) 23:17, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

The article mentions that both halves can use Mayfly on their own. I feel like Black Zetsu's is a variant of the former technique in that he can use it to see and spy on people instead of simply using it for transportation. We've never seen White Zetsu have his eye visible like that when fused with the land. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:46, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

RRY? I must have missed it then. Well, what we know is listed so no speculations. We might not had seen everything Black Zetsu has to offer, we don't even know for sure if he/it is dead. What he does though pretty much fits the description of Mayfly, so I don't think eye being there is a brand new technique--Elveonora (talk) 02:52, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Orrr, Black Zetsu said my power because he was there alone. Had White Zetsu been there he would have said "our" O.o? Simple case of ownership.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:13, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

His background, again...
We had this convo many times before... how come could this guy have been created from Hashi's DNA and plants since he has "Blood Type: B" in his infobox? Can someone EXACTLY provide the line by Sakura or who stated that he has plant and Hashi DNA or something? That doesn't confirm any creation, there are things like enhancements in this manga.--Elveonora (talk) 02:05, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

just because he's made from plants and hashi's DNA doesnt mean he cant have a bloodtype, besides he was stated to have a bloodtype b as well as having been made from hashi's DNA plus plants, which is how it shall stay.98.26.245.37 (talk) 04:02, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

also jut so you know it was chapter 545 page 3 and 4.98.26.245.37 (talk) 04:06, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Again... she is talking about ZETSU ARMY CLONES. They are made from Hashi Plant Clone and later enhanced by Yamato, the one at the summit also was a clone (unless I'm mistaken)--Elveonora (talk) 14:30, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

zetsu's army clones were made from the original zetsu, thus a clone. also black zetsu was shown manipulating roots using wood release, so obviously the original zetsu has wood release. putting those two things together make t obvious that wood release was something zetsu already possessed and thus his clones did too.98.26.245.37 (talk) 14:42, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

"THe real white Zetsu" got killed by Sasuke, for what we know... in all the appearances with Black Zetsu, the white half could have been a clone from the army. Also what do you mean "thus a clone" ? I thought Zetsu Clone Army = Original White Zetsu + Hashirama Plant Clone flower, with Yamato they were enhanced. Also Zetsu's root abilities being Wood Release is still a speculation. There's simply no 100% confirmation of Zetsu being an made-up experiment and not a mutated person. Plants don't have blood. unless I'm mistaken, thus in my opinion the original white Zetsu being the one killed by Sasuke without the fly-trap extensions. We just don't know FORE SURE. --Elveonora (talk) 15:43, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

It was never stated that the army clones are related to the original Zetsu, just that they were made with plants and tailed beast chakra. They referred to white as "their original", but it could just be that they were created in his image. They definitely don't share a mental link with him the way his half-faced clones do.--BeyondRed (talk) 20:04, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

okay in what world is the root attack used by black zetsu not wood release? that was obviously wood relese, why do people think they need kishi to spoon feed them stuff abot the show? he uses wood release (definitly that was 100% without a doubt i would bet my life on it wood release), it was stated that the clones of zetsu (their his clones of course theyr related otherwise they wouldnt be clones, clones the word itself proves a great point), and by the way apearently if you actually read naruto and not some other manga, kabuto wanted zetsu speficaly for hashiramas genes in him. at a certain point in a long running series, the author expects the reader to make theyr own decison based on comen sense and what was previously stated in the series (unless it retconned, but until then) instead of having to explain stuff every single time. and when i said clone, i meant clone not in a clone technique sense but a genetic clone not bunshin jutsu but instead a copie of the original made from the genes of said original. um also if he was created by tobi or madara or whoever else then he could still bleed cause remember he was created, maybe they wanted him to bleed to fit his (half way) human-like apearence. and umm white zetsu clone zetsu - white zetsu, just the name shows relation in some way or another and also the face looks similar, besides who said that clones always share a mental link with the person who made them, and when did i ever even mention the original white zetsu being killed by sasuke, that right there is speculation since although it possible and it was implied by white zetsu's clones that the original (original-not real, notice the diference) had died.

also here are several ponits that imply zetsu's clone army being related to zetsu,
 * in chapter 512 page 6, tobi says (according to the viz translation) "kisames intel told us the alied shinobi forces are 80,000 strong and now we know their formation pattern. but the real key to our army is zetsu". notice how he said zetsu not plants or hashiramas genetic clone. kabuto then conitinud "i have the ability to make zetsu stronger... if you take me there (there being the gedo mazo thing)". why would they simply say zetsu instead of white zetsu or plants or hashiramas genetic clone.
 * chapter 515 page 8, kabuto said "jst dont kill him, okay? if you want to make the zetsu stronger." why would he lump zetsu and the zetsu army together by saying the zetsu? unless the zetsu is a new naruto species just doesnt make sense (sacrasm).

could someone else come in on this cause its getting so bothersome aurguing someone who is so obstinate and has to point out a little specific detail of something and even when theres proof for the oposition he has to just out speculation speculation speculation right after another even though zetsu actually showed it could use wood release he just says oh thats speculation. and finaly, when is zetsu ever seen bleeding? i dont remember him ever bleeding.98.26.246.122 (talk) 23:50, August 8, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

@beyond, you see. No proof of the original White One being a Hashi reject @other dude, Zetsu's techniques not being listed as Wood Release because it's not confirmed, but that's not what I'm discussing here. Kabuto wanted Zetsu for Hashirama's DNA? Orochimaru, and in that matter Kabuto already have it at their disposal. (Madara enhancement) etc. Now you are speculating on White Zetsu being alive/dead, sure not confirmed if the one killed by Sasuke was "real white zetsu" or "original clone zetsu" but for the time being, he is dead. Yes, "Zetsu" is also kind of term as well. Like saying "Zetsu" = may mean more Zetsus. Even if he meant the "original" then it's even less likely he has/had any Wood Release before the Yamato enhancement. Being a plantman and having plant-like abilities =/= necessary Wood Release or being related to Hashirama. That's it, we are yet to see Zetsu bleed other than sap, while the Databook says he is B-blood type--Elveonora (talk) 00:30, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

firstly im not speculating the real white zetsu being dead. in fact you brought it up. also not all of zetsus techniques are being listed as wood release. but if hes shown manipulating wood then its wood release thats not speculation thats common sense. he has hashirama's dna was stated by sakura to use wood release and even was shown manipulating wood. and also why does zetsu having blood matter, we dont even know if he was some por human tobi experimented on or if he was created by tobi. regardless this is going nowhere, your just going to keep throwing around the word speculation, and ive not the time nor the patience to deal with this any longer, ill let some else deal with you.98.26.246.122 (talk) 00:43, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

So a plantman has to have wood release in order to use something similar, the only thing close to manipulation is "communication technique" because I don't remember any other instance than this and clone army being turned into trees. And again, I'm reading ShounenSuki's translation: Shizune: "In other words… This… This is almost identical to the Shodai Hokage's individual make-up!" (「つまり…これ…初代火影の個人配列とほぼ変われなくなってる…やっぱりそうだったんだ!」) Akimichi: "What are you talking about?! What do those white things have to do with the Shodai Hokage?" (｢何の話だ!?この白いのと初代火影が何だって?｣) Sakura: "In short, the white guys are copies of the Shodai-sama! Or rather, judging by the numbers, they are moving clone plants, created by cultivating the Shodai-sama's cells and using plants as a medium! They may be weak, but they use Mokuton!" (｢つまりこの白い奴は初代火影様の分身体!というよりこの数からして初代様の細胞を培養し植物を媒体に造られた動くクローン植物って事!うすまって弱いけど木遁を使うし!｣) Akimichi: "Hmmmm… Hn?! …I don't quite understand…!" (｢ん〰〰〰〰…ん!?…よく分からん…!｣) Sakura: "Anyhow… Judging from this data, Captain Yamato is also being used as a power-up for these guys!" (｢とにかく…このデータから見てヤマト隊長もこいつらのパワーアップに利用されているんだ!｣)
 * Sakura: "…It became even more similar to Captain Yamato than at the time of the Five Kage Summit!!" (｢…五影会談の時よりヤマト隊長に近くなってる!!｣)

The "Zetsu" killed at the Kage Summit could of have been from the clone army, not a "clone" like a clone technique of the original one. Thus already made from Hashi's DNA+ plants. The army obviously has Wood Release, but there's no proof the one killed by Sasuke, presumed as the real one had such. For what we know, "White Zetsu" could be the PLANTS part, not Hashi's DNA part. And that's exactly why it does matter, we don't know if he wasn't a human that was being experimented upon, plants don't have blood. Not to mention, the one killed by Sasuke doesn't have the fly-trap stuff and DOES HAVE fingernails.--Elveonora (talk) 02:19, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

um are you reading the same manga? the root thing i was talking about was in chapter 562 page 9, he was clearing manipulating roots that looked like wood that were coming from his body. that is the wood release i was talking about.98.26.246.122 (talk) 02:33, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan


 * still no proof of it being a wood release
 * the topic is about origins of white half, the black one is even more of a mystery--Elveonora (talk) 02:41, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

how is that not wood release? it looks just like how yamato makes wood from his body. whatever. for now we just have to go based on what we'v seen and been told, that means he was made fomr hashi's cells and he has a blood type, going any further would simply be too much speculation.98.26.246.122 (talk) 02:48, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Whatever, I'm gonna make an edit, if some people don't like it, reverse it back.--Elveonora (talk) 02:53, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

fair trade i geuss, considering that its a very confusing topic.98.26.246.122 (talk) 03:16, August 9, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

I have worded it so it's less speculative and the meaning doesn't change much, hopefully it's alright.--Elveonora (talk) 03:31, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Wow this blew up, but I'd like to point out, when this was added I was also confused but from the translation you pasted Elveonora, I believe it was added because of what Sakura said. It would seem that the medics got their hands on the clone left at the summit and ran diagnostics on it.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:11, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but what kind of clone was it at the summit? Clone like from the army, or a technique? Even if the latter, we don't know if the true white Zetsu had created it. --Elveonora (talk) 18:01, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Besides the fact that it didn't look like one of them, I highly doubt it was a clone from the army, why would he have used one of those? It seemed like a regular clone of White Zetsu.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:07, August 9, 2012 (UTC)