Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-34656247-20180531072459/@comment-34656247-20180606051642

'-' Thekillman wrote: Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: When did he want to defeat sasuke? i stated that he wanted to get orochimaru out of sasuke so how is that the same as defeating sasuke lol. Make's sense ;_; i think o_o
 * He needed to defeat Sasuke in order to bring out Orochimaru. In the end, Sasuke was out of chakra, out of ideas and Itachi still had fighting spirit, chakra and a powerful jutsu left. Itachi won the battle.

Thekillman wrote: Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Also you would've noticed the difference but you didn't and here we are ;_; He used tsukuyomi 4 times in the anime yet you did'nt notice the difference? tsukuyomi was even used as a command type genjutsu, this is when itachi used it against kabuto. This is proof that the genjutsu can be altered as the user see fit. Uh, he did use tsukuyomi ;_; the last part after Kabuto was already under Izanami. He use tsukuyomi on Kabuto commanding him to reveal the signs that are necessary to release edo Tensei'-'/ there it was used as a command type jutsu..it's alter-able.
 * Uh? Itachi never used Tsukuyome against Kabuto. That was Kotoamatsukami. A jutsu which works very differently. It's easy to break, the difficulty is discovering that you're under it in the first place. As for Tsukuyome:

Thekillman wrote:
 * Against Sasuke 1: Time dilation, horrible visions
 * Against Kakashi 1: Time dilation and space manipulation, physical torture
 * Against Sasuke 2: Time dilation, horrible visions
 * Against Kakashi 2: Time dilation and space manipulation, physical torture
 * Against Sasuke 3: Time dilation and horrible visions.

See the trend? Obviously the last 2 times didn't work (Kakashi was really a clone and Sasuke broke out), but it's consistent. Um Kakashi only got caught once, the genjutsu used on kakashi's clone wasn't tsukuyomi ;_;
 * Ms is needed and that 30% clone of itachi didn't had access to MS.

Thekillman wrote: And kakashi knew that, but still succumbed to it...THAT shows itachi's gjutsu mastery is abnormal '-'7 and dude all sasuke saw was his eye getting ripped out and he went to the ground afterwards, so what if he had experienced what kakashi did ;_;
 * There's a difference between the power and effect of a genjutsu though. Genjutsu is a foreign control over your chakra flow. What the genjutsu shows has no effect on this. Genjutsu is broken if the victim's ability to rouse chakra is greater than this foreign control. Obviously the victim's mental state influences how well they can rouse their chakra etc, but it has no effect on the actual power of the genjutsu.

Thekillman wrote: Yea basically.
 * Mental struggles are typically depicted as physical struggles in the mental plane. Like Naruto v Kurama for instance. Seems to me that a bind is simply meant to depict that the genjutsu is strong.

Thekillman wrote: Note that space manipulation happens against Kakashi with Tsukuyome, indicating Itachi thought he couldn't mentally break him, whereas against Sasuke he doesn't but uses hellish visions instead. The first line. To summarise what i was trying to say: when a hold is present the gjutsu becomes more difficult to overcome, your physical self is being confused with your mental self (your mental self which is placed on hold) Naruto wasn't on any hold, so he was free to clap his palms together to try to break it, say if itachi had included a cross, naruto's action (trying to break) would've certainly been different. when sasuke used genjutsu on Cee, he was forced to see himself being squeezed by a susanoo, his same stance in the genjutsu world was also made in reality.
 * Bindings tend to leave the victim free to think but not act. We've seen other illusions that tend to alter the victim's perception but not movement (e.g. forest illusion, extra Sharingan on their hand). Then there are genjutsu that alter a victim's mental state (sheer terror induced by visions, e.g. Itachi against Sasuke).