Talk:Genjutsu: Mangekyō Sharingan

Article
Should a page such as this exist? To differentiate the fact that Sasuke does not utilize TsukuyomiDazzlingEmerald (talk) 23:42, October 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * No. He used Genjutsu: Sharingan with his Mangekyō. There is no such thing as Genjutsu: Mangekyō Sharingan. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 23:43, October 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * The existence of Genjustu: Sharingan and Genjutsu: Rinnegan's articles does not warrant the existence of an article for Genjutsu: Mangekyō Sharingan. And the article does not exist. I don't entirely see where you're coming from. • WindStar7125   WindStar7125 Task.svg WindStar7125's Task.svg 00:17, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

Article, Round Two
A Mangekyo is a heightened form of the Sharingan, so using Genjutsu: Sharingan with the Mangekyo is possible, this page shouldn't be unique enough to warrant its own page. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:24, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Mangekyō is a heighten form of the sharingan because it unlocks new techniques. I don't ever recall that having a Mangekyō Sharingan makes regular sharingan techniques any stronger. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:36, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that the Rinnegan is stated to be the evolution of the Sharingan, much like the Mangekyō is. I wonder why we have a page about Genjutsu: Rinnegan but not about this, when in the end the genjutsu is the same, just used through different evolutions of the same dōjutsu. It makes more sense to me to either put it all in Genjutsu: Sharingan or with a page for each dōjutsu variant.--JOA2009:06, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sasuke calls his genjutsu version of the Mangekyou Sharingan Genjutsu: Sharingan. If it was another technique he would have called by another name. There is no reason to place this article. --Lukas Pessoa Dantas (talk) 12:32, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah he can use Genjutsu: Sharingan through his EMS, as with with Amaterasu with the Rinnegan. But Sasuke & Itachi's usage of genjustu against Killer B and Mecha Naruto require the Mangekyō Sharingan. So either its an unnamed generic technique of the MS or having the MS activated improves Genjutsu: Sharingan. Since we have no knowledge of the Mangekyō Sharingan improving sharingan techniques, then the only option is that its an unnamed technique. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:00, September 14, 2015 (UTC)
 * What evidence is there that the Mangekyo is required? Or that this is somehow "stonger"? Abilities of earlier forms are, as you point out, available while using later forms as well, so I don't see a reason to believe that this and the Rinnegan version should be any different. In Viz's translation of chapter 413, B even seems to call this Sharingan genjutsu (too lazy to verify in raw). ~SnapperTo 06:49, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sasuke uses genjutsu in various instances with the Mangekyō active. Out of these times, there are two where he thinks "Genjutsu: Sharingan" (when confronting the only survivor of the White Zetsu troop that attacked him after he gained the Eternal Mangekyō, and when he helped Itachi get out of Tayuya's genjutsu used by Kabuto); Itachi used a "normal" genjutsu on Kabuto to make him undo the Edo Tensei (since Itachi had sacrificed his Tsukuyomi eye to activate Izanami), and Madara used an apparently normal genjutsu on the Raikage. I'd propose a merge of all the three pages under the name "Genjutsu: Sharingan", since it's the official name.--JOA2007:27, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Sasuke and Itachi activated their MS to cast genjustu. If they intended to cast Genjutsu: Sharingan, there would be no need to activate their MS. The action in itself is evidence. JOA's idea could also work. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 07:34, September 15, 2015 (UTC)

Of course, if the merge proposal is accepted, the article would be divided in sections for each dōjutsu version.--JOA2007:36, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merger of this and Genjutsu: Sharingan. I don't see why it should be separated in the first place.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:35, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * There just 1 problem with the merger, Genjutsu: Sharingan can't be used via the rinnegan, as demonstrated by Madara who had to de-evolve his Rinnegan to trap A in genjutsu. I think this technique is valid, but only list the users who we've seen intentionally activate there MS to cast genjutsu, so basically Itachi and Sasuke. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 20:33, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Madara can't use MS genjutsu with Rinnegan but he can use Susanoo. So can Sasuke. He also used either Amaterasu or Kagutsuchi to break himself and Naruto free from an ice block when Kaguya teleported them to her ice dimension with Amenominaka. From day one, I've argued that Sasuke using genjutsu with the Rinnegan was just him using Genjutsu: Sharingan through his Rinnegan, since his has the "power of the Sharingan", in this case the tomoe. In all things ever attributed to the Rinnegan, genjutsu was never one of them. Are we saying that Susanoo is a Rinnegan ninjutsu as well now? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * We know tomoe aren't required to use GS as we've seen it done with all the tomoe-less MS. The fact of the matter is Madara's usage proves it just cant be done with through the rinnegan. --Bio havik (talk) 23:44, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * Where do you see Madara deactivating his Rinnegan in order to use genjutsu? He's seen in 578 with his Rinnegan active making wood clones that all have their eyes closed. Time passes. The next time he's seen again, in chapter 588, a wood clone has its Mangekyo active already and uses a genjutsu on the Raikage. Unless you're referring to a different scene, there's no evidence that anything is being deactivated in order to use anything else. ~SnapperTo 00:28, September 16, 2015 (UTC)

Madara the Rinnegan active. Made wood clones. Either Madara or the original, which as a clone, should have the same abilities, considering it could also use Susanoo. When Madara uses genjutsu on A, the eyes, which should be Rinnegan, since that's how the eyes were when Madara made the clones, are EMS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:46, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * The wood clones' eyes are all closed when they're created. In fact, the only time a wood clone's eyes are seen is when the genjutsu is used, and then it's already a Mangekyo. Perhaps Kishimoto has some poorly thought out excuse where wood clones can't use the Rinnegan? Rinnegan are supposed to be special and everything.
 * Anyway, I looked it up and it's the anime (ep 339) that shows the wood clone deactivating its Rinnegan. What the anime does is a trivia point, not the basis for an article. ~SnapperTo 00:55, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Even still in the manga, the clone being a copy of the original Madara would of been created with a rinnegan. So why else would it have its MS activated unless its for casting genjutsu? --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 01:04, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Like I said, that's the only time a wood clone's eyes are ever seen. They are deliberately left closed when they're created and then they're not seen closely enough ever again, with this one exception. Perhaps they never had Rinnegan to start with for some completely nonsensical reason?
 * I honestly don't understand why discussions on this wiki so often see people arguing that something that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and tastes like a duck is a squirrel. We can never take the simple approach and note the inconsistent peculiarities about the squirrel in an existing article about ducks. No, instead we need to make an article exclusively about the squirrel because, you know, it could be intentional. It probably isn't, but it could be! ~SnapperTo 01:17, September 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * For whatever it's worth, the wood clone that was previously sealed by Gaara was shown with the Rinnegan. But then, that clone is already a strange case since it dissolved like an Edo Tensei when damaged, which doesn't happen to the wood clones made by Hashirama later on.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:22, September 16, 2015 (UTC)