User talk:Omnibender/Elemental recomposition table

Initial impressions
I don't agree with the Crystal Lightning/Earth combination much, but could I just say that I find this table absolutely amazing? It's a job well done! --NejiByakugan360 15:25, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank ShounenSuki, he gave me the base code for the table. I listed Crystal as Earth and Lightning mainly because of fulgurites. It's the only thing I can think of when I put earth and lightning together. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:40, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added explanations on my reasoning for the combinations in the table. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:54, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've got to hand it to you Omnibender, all the reasoning are understandable. Crystal i good as well. I'm really impressed ^_^.--NejiByakugan360 22:25, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

There's got to be something that can be put in for fire and wind. 24.189.153.102 (talk) 21:11, October 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's the one I'm having most trouble with. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:12, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Blaze is the only thing i could think of, but that would be impossible. 24.189.153.102 (talk) 21:16, October 25, 2009 (UTC) Possibility is a smoke release, thought that would be stupid. 24.189.153.102 (talk) 21:17, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

It's the best idea I've seen so far, the most I had come up with is "heat", but that's too close to fire. I'll list smoke, perhaps ash, for now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:19, October 25, 2009 (UTC) It could also be another option for plasma, as plasma is an ionized gas that is very hot. 24.189.153.102 (talk) 21:24, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Plasma would have a closer relationship with lightning for me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:36, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Apparently, water is a very good solvent by itself, combining it with itself could mean some possibility of a dissolve of solvent release. Vik0z0z (talk) 21:51, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Thing is, there are two solvent like water combinations already, with earth and with fire. One yields lava, and the other gives acid. I get what you mean, but it would feel too similar to other advanced natures. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:57, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

I think lightning+lightning combo should be light release not dark but i dont know what dark should be

I did think about it, but lightning/lightning was the only combination in which Dark Release made the slightest sense. Read the definition of Dark Release, the definition of Lightning Release, and then my reasoning. It's quite a stretch, but it's the only way I could make it work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:54, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

I personally don't think there should be a Light Release, since Darui's Storm Release: Laser Circus seemed to be a light-based technique. --GoDai (talk) 06:17, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Looks more like liquid lightning if you ask me, that's even how we describe it over at Storm Release, and in the technique Darui used. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then would you say the "Laser" part was just a pun on the appearance of the technique? GoDai (talk)
 * I don't know if it's a pun, but it isn't unheard of, see Lava Release: Melting Apparition Technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I meant how the kanji is pronounced "Laser Circus," although it's not usually pronounced that way exactly. --GoDai (talk) 07:17, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Proof reading
I think Ash Release would probably be pronounced as Haiton instead of Kaiton. Pressure is and Pressure Release would most likely be pronounced as Atton. Otherwise, pretty good job on the Japanese there. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:15, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Yin an Yang
I gotta say, your table seems incredibly accurate. Just to throw out my opinion, for the elements such as Blaze, Darkness and Pressure, you can't really "combine" an element with itself. I think it's more likely that Yin/Yang acts as an enhancing element, and when combined with one of the original five, creates a stronger version of the element. So......Blaze would be Fire and Yin/Yang. Darkness would be Lightning and Yin/Yang. Pressure would be Wind and Yin/Yang. Steel would be Earth and Yin/Yang. And Light would be Water and Yin/Yang. But anyway, the table is great! Thanks! ZeusMino
 * I considered those as alternative theories, the only reason I considered putting an element with itself is because is some cases, such as Blaze and Steel, it fits. Every advanced nature is, or at least is supposed to be a kekkei genkai using the five basic natures. At first, I considered Blaze as Fire and Lightning, because it was the only thing that fit, but then came Steel, and the only thing left for Earth was Earth itself, so that's when I changed the current same element natures. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:42, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I think you should mention Yin and Yang in the summary for the stronger versions table, because it is a possibility that Yin and Yang make elements stronger. Oh, and I get the Stronger versions, but I don't see the advanced natures having them. Vik0z0z (talk) 22:48, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought about that, but since Blaze Release doesn't seem to have any Yin and Yang in it, as far as we can tell, I'm not playing that card just yet. Advanced natures having stronger counterparts just felt possible, everything could get stronger, Blaze is a stronger version for a nature manipulation, others should have it as well, basic and advanced alike. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:07, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

More than two elements combo
Is it me or noone has ever thought about combinations of more than two elements?
 * I was wondering about and they never said that only may be 2 elemennt in a combo. for exeple :wind+air+lightning= iron sand and maybe bigger part of one and smaller af the other may result in another element for exeple:a 3/4 of water and 1/4 of wind = buble releaseThe ultimate fan of NARUTO &#91;&#91;Welimer2&#93;&#93; (talk) 22:34, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * It might be possible, but since such a thing was never actually hinted on the manga, I'm not going down that path just yet. I'm a very "by the book" person, and the only things ever said about advanced natures is that they're made up from two basic natures. If Kishimoto-sensei decides to introduce three element advanced natures, well, I'm going to have a hard time making a table for three elements, not to mention a grid with three entries. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:39, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * When Yamato explained wood release (chapter 316 page 6), he said that he used earth in his right hand and water in his left, so mixing three or more elements might not be possible. Jacce | Talk 06:33, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * The only way I can see something like more than two elements combo would be someone pulling a Naruto and somehow using Shadow clones for extra elements. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:24, November 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * To Jacce it might be the Yamato case or just to explain to Naruto if he said that he was transforming half of his chakra in water and the another half in earth the fusing both into just one Naruto would make a face like"...uh..." The ultimate fan of NARUTO welimer2 22:02, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Water + Water
I was thinking... flame is a more powerful type of fire... steel is a more powerful type of earth... so wut is a powerful form of liquid... and i though..Mercury.. liquid metal... and umm.. yeah.. wut do u think about it? 76.193.190.47 (talk) 22:54, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Liquid metal is only related to water because it's liquid, Ocean was the thing that best fit what I imagined for water + water. Since the other forms of water were already taken by Han and Utakata, ocean, as in great quantity of water was the best I could come up with. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:08, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

It is possible for water and water to be a superfluid release. You can look it up on wikipedia. It has a relation to your shape release theory. I think superfluid in japanese would be 流動 (ryūdō)24.45.20.86 (talk) 18:20, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia and Google Translate both give me 超流体 (chō ryūtai). It seems that in Japanese, it's two words instead of one. Interesting idea though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:44, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

do you think it is interesting enough to put on the table? 24.45.20.86 (talk) 19:02, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be ryūton 24.45.20.86 (talk) 19:06, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I'm still looking it up a bit, trying to see if I can picture actual ninjutsu using this nature. The things superfluids do, like creeping up and the like seems like something regular Water Release would do, since water was seen jumping to places. I'm looking for something more unique within superfluids, but it looks viable, I'll add it later. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:37, November 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * You know, maybe you're just thinking too hard about this. Blaze Release does nothing more special than Fire Release, it is just stronger. Maybe Water Release's more advanced form is the same. In that case, it would have a name that would simply remind one of powerful water. Something like Wave Release.
 * Wave Release, of course, would be perfect for Naruto. Not only would he have a nature that could stand a chance against Sasuke's Blaze Release, it would also combine with his Wind Release to form his father's family name: Namikaze - Waves and Wind. --ShounenSuki (talk 21:52, November 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * Superb idea. What would it be? Hiton or Haton? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:22, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * --ShounenSuki (talk 22:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

But I don't think Blaze Release is just a stronger Fire Release, but a way to "condense" flames (maybe just Amaterasu) into seemingly-solid shapes. When Sasuke was fighting Gaara, he was amazed that he had to use a Blaze Release technique (probably Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi) to block the Kazekage's attack.--GoDai (talk) 01:30, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * He could fire balls of Amaterasu at Gaara, ignite Susanoo's ribs and shape them into a shield around himself, and gather flames Amaterasu into one area and condense them into spikes.--GoDai (talk) 07:09, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Amaterasu itself has been stated to be a strong Fire Release, and it is only Blaze Release when its shape has been changed (which Itachi was incapable of), in my opinion. I know this has been mentioned several times, but I think the best explanation for Blaze Release is that it is Fire + Lightning, since they are the two natures Sasuke is capable of using, Amaterasu symbolizes "the Material World and Light", and the sun, which itself symbolizes light, heat, plasma, flares, radiation, etc. But that's just my opinion and I myself think that's just symbols.--GoDai (talk) 07:15, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say it is Fire and Lightning fused. Amaterasu, and therefore all Blaze Release techniques stem from the Mangekyō Sharingan, which in turn stem from the regular Sharigan, which isn't a element combining kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * But Would that mean Itachi was unable to use Blaze Release because he wasn't as skilled as Sasuke is now? Or is it because all Mangekyo Sharingan may have differing abilities depending on the user? --GoDai (talk) 18:15, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps even both. The moment Sasuke was able to use shape manipulation on Amaterasu, he was noted to be more gifted than Itachi. Also, Itachi was sick, we don't know how debilitated his abilities were. Maybe he was able to do such things and we never saw it. Taking into account how degraded his eyesight was when he fought Sasuke, I'd say that he simply didn't spam the Mangekyō like Sasuke is doing now. He had it for years, and the damage Sasuke has now is comparable to that of Itachi's, despite Sasuke having his for a shorter time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:38, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I was just thinking, would Sasuke have named his new nature by himself, or would he have learned of Blaze Release off-screen, somewhere in an unknown sub-plot? Characters use a lot of techniques, which they may have named themselves...which means Sasuke might have been trying to look "cool" with his new "nature" which seems to be nothing different from shape transformation on a strong fire...--GoDai (talk) 19:35, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Sasuke naming the new nature, I think he's self-centered enough to do it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:15, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Stronger version
If we consider that Blaze and other same element combinations aren't actually combinations, but instead a stronger version of their basic nature, I've also put together what the "stronger version" of all other releases might be, those being the so far non same element combos (both confirmed ones such as wood, ice, lava, etc. and my main theories for unknown combinations, such as light and smoke). I won't be putting them here now because they still need more tweaking and researching of kanji, because they're a bit too fanon for my taste, and because I don't want to make yet another giant table. If you want to, ask here while the whole thing isn't ready. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:51, November 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * As it turned out, I'm way too much into nature transformation to let this go, so I sped this up and here it is. Feel free to correct any Japanese mistake, wiktionary has failed me before. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:58, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Movie natures
i think you should add Wind and Lightning to the possible combinations list, since we are not counting th movie natures as canon. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 18:41, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I'm considering lightning and wind as swift until the manga gives us a more plausible nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:48, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Get There
How do you get to the article for this the recompsition table of what you think, can u tell me or have a link.Kouseki (talk) 19:05, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Liquid Release
I'd Like to offer a suggestion if thats okay. How about Water+Water is Liquid Release. As in being able to control all things Liquid or liquid like.--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 06:05, December 10, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan
 * Water Release already accounts for some non-water liquid techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:29, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Typhoon
Technically, Taiton would mean Great Release, and the other option is Futon, but that would mean Wind Release, so your "Great Release" would be improbable. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 21:47, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * Technically it wouldn't. Since it is derived from the Japanese word taifū, there are two ways to write Taiton. One is with the kanji and the other is with the kanji . If it is ever used in manga, I'd say the latter option would be the more likely one to be used. --ShounenSuki (talk 22:08, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Possible and Stronger Element Theories
I just want to say that your theories, as always, are amazing. I don't completely agree with the Wave one, but still, it has sense. Good job.--NejiByakugan360 23:52, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think that my greatest accomplishment yet was to foresee vacuum techniques as part of Wind Release, even though it wasn't a new element. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:57, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Sand Release
Could you possibly try and put a Sand Release in there? Gaara and his tailed beast use Sand, and it is a long term speculation. The only problem is...the combination on Earth and Wind is already taken...--NejiByakugan360 16:18, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't list sand. It was never implied to be a nature manipulation, and the fact Gaara takes sand with him implies he can't generate sand, like we've seen shinobi generating the elements they use. If I had made this table before Dust Release was revealed, I would definitely have listed Sand as a wind and earth blend. Plus, the one named sand technique with an elemental name is Wind Release: Infinite Sand Cloud Great Breakthrough, linking it more to Wind Release than Earth Release. And to boot, Earth Release already has the most possible combinations, including Earth with itself, unless they introduce a concept that the ratio of elements used changes the blend, or maybe a Yin and Yang manipulation does something similar, I can't see sand being anything other than a tailed beast ability. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:38, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * But Rock Lee did note Gaara's ability to make sand out of soil using his own sand and pressure-based ability, although the sand was harder to control than his own chakra-infused desert sand. Earth Release is known to have a mud-based theme, usually transforming soil into mud (and maybe hardening it into a rock-like form, but not precisely rock). Also, although not as relevant, in a video game (I don't remember which one), an Earth Dragon Bullet can be formed using Gaara's sand with Kisame or Suigetsu's Water Dragon Bullet, hinting Earth Release is manipulation of moist/wet soil(mud), and Gaara/Shukaku's sand manipulation is manipulation of dry soil(sand). --GoDai (talk) 03:12, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that Gaara can't make it out of nowhere. Sure, Gaara can use the soil to make sand, but he can't make sand appear out of nowhere. Hiruzen was able to spit mud, he created earth. Gaara never did something like that. Gaara's only way to get more sand is either to take regular sand, or create it by harvest minerals from the soil. He can't just spit sand. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then is there a term such as chakra-infusion? Ink, Paper, Bones (Calcium), and other jutsu (many of which seem similar to chakra natures, but are likely not) are used by infusing the substances with chakra, then manipulating it. Would this be a form of simple Shape Manipulation? (Most of these techniques seem unique to the user though)--GoDai (talk) 00:36, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know if this would count as shape manipulation, but it is the sort of infusing chakra and manipulating things with it, Deidara did say that Gaara's sand was enhanced with his chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't Gaara spit sand in his jinchuriki form with Wind Release: Infinite Sand Cloud Great Breakthrough? Or was that the sand inside the gourd that fused with him to form Shukaku's shape?--GoDai (talk) 01:20, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * The amount of sand on him during the transformation did increase, but I believe that's because Shukaku was getting more control over Gaara. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:24, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * So he didn't turn his chakra into sand, right? In Gaara's Jinchuriki form, does his sand fuse onto the outside and inside of his body to form Shukaku's shape?--GoDai (talk) 06:11, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that when he's in those forms, the amount of sand increases because Shukaku starts taking over his body, kinda like how flesh and bones of the Nine-Tails start to form on Naruto in his latter forms. In Shukaku's case, sand appearing to form his body instead of raw chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * So in the Two-Tails case, it's blue fire? Would sand and fire still be infused with chakra to form an "chakra coat"? --GoDai (talk) 18:18, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say so, from the little we saw on the Two-Tails, that would be my guess. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:38, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

So Shukaku had wind nature, while sand was not an element. Two-Tails wasn't fire nature, right? And Three-tails wasn't water nature or was it? --GoDai (talk) 06:44, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not as far as I could tell. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:20, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

3 Way
Since ninja with the correct bloodlines can make new elements with 2 releases how about 3 releases into one (like Water, Fire, and Wind) and. Or mixing already made advanced chakra with simpler chakra (Like Wood, and Fire). Or even 2 different advanced releases(Wood and Ice for example).--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 21:58, January 23, 2010 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan
 * See what I said some sections above. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:01, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Naming
Seeing the confirmed canon advanced natures so far, it seems that Masashi Kishimoto is planning to name all the natures as "traditional" as possible. Storm was actually more like light ("laser circus"), Blaze was controlling the shapes of Amaterasu (maybe symbolizing Light, Heat, Sun, or Plasma), Boil was not just steam, but it was a corrosive, acidic vapour, and Dust was crushing things into molecule-sized dust (although its abilities have not been fully confirmed or revealed, it was not called Molecule Release)--GoDai (talk) 03:51, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * So therefore I don't think an advanced nature would have a name like Radiation, Plasma, Pressure, Magnetism, Acid, Velocity, or Laser.
 * Dust Release abilities were slightly explained in the second Fanbook. Boil isn't very traditional, nor is Storm or Dust, and nonetheless, they're there. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I understand, but the theme seems like "what japanese people (maybe ninjas) would have known in the old days" to me. They would have known the concepts of boil, storm, and dust, even though the effects of the jutsu weren't very traditional (for example, Storm does not control actual storms). I think the rule is "Traditional name, but modern sci-fi effect". GoDai (talk)
 * We've seen survailance cameras, refrigerators and TVs, but no fire arms. Orochimaru did genetic engeneering research. They have some technology, and it seems natural they'd have some knowledge on some stuff. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:58, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but I'm just thinking the names of Natures are made around things actual ninja would have known, not ninjas in Naruto. Considering their technology, the word Storm doesn't seem to be the best way to describe the effects of Storm Release.--GoDai (talk) 07:43, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Orochimaru's Experiments and Otogakure
Orochimaru conducted many experiments in search for copying kekkei genkai. Yamato and Danzō were able to use Wood Release, and it may be possible other test subjects were able to use elemental techniques. Earlier in the plot, the Oto-nin were able to use techniques based on sound (Zaku's jutsu was based on vacuum and air pressure also) through the use of special instruments and implants in Zaku's case. Could these have been Orochimaru's efforts to find a Sound Release?
 * An anime-only character, Kigiri, was also able to use smoke in battle, such as the Smoke Clone. Kigiri was able to use a fire-based technique, confirming the connection of smoke to fire. Kihō was also able to use smoke-based techniques, such as the Smoke Dragon through special devices. GoDai (talk)
 * What Orochimaru did was to transplant a kekkei genkai to other individuals, something which seems much simpler than creating a kekkei genkai. Even though it has logic, I wouldn't give much credit to the smoke now, because as an anime-only plot, it may have nothing to do at all with Kishimoto, we don't know how involved he is with anime-only plots. The Six-Tails Arc, for example. Utakata is a canon character, but the arc about him isn't. His bubble techniques were referred to in a canon source, but most of them appeared only in the anime. We don't know if they should be accountable as valid arguments. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thinking the Other Way
Wood Release keeps coming up on my mind, as wood release generates living wood. (However, the effects varied between users: Yamato seems to generate just wood, Danzō seems to generate trees from his arm, and Hashirama seems to generate trees and control them entirely, probably because it was his natural kekkei genkai and he had absolute control over it.) Unlike the other advanced natures, wood release seems to deal with an extremely complicated structures: living cells. The fact that earth and water natures are enough to form living plant cells seem too much out of range, although with Earth Release already being able to control mud eliminates mud as a combination.
 * To me, it seems Kishimoto is trying to fit in stereotypical classical elements into this system, like Fire, Wind/Air, Earth, Water, Lightning/Electricity, Wood/Plants, Ice/Cold, Metal, Poison/Toxins, Sound/Sonics, Light, and Darkness. Most of these have already been shown on manga, although Metal, Poison, and Sound were not Natures. These three could be Natures, but with effects different from the previously shown jutsu related to these classical elements.

--GoDai (talk) 01:17, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * So maybe
 * After (more like If) Fire + Lighning = Blaze (symbolizing Sun, Light, Heat, Plasma, and Radiation in my opinion) becomes true
 * Fire + Wind = Poison Gas (or Smoke/Ash, or maybe related to Shizune's poison gas technique, although not kekkei genkai)
 * Wind + Lighning = Thunder (Sonic Shockwaves? Not the same as Oto-nin's hearing-based jutsu)
 * Earth + Lighning = Metal, or some type of metal, maybe steel/iron (or Magnetism, either way you control metal)
 * This way, all stereotypical classical elements seem to fit in.
 * This is just my opinion, the best I could come up with. I think stronger versions, triple+ combinations, and stronger versions of combinations may be a little to complicated, and I think it would be awkward for all that to be suddenly introduced into the plot, since nothing like that was mentioned before. I also ignored all anime/movie-only natures. I myself stick to the 10-possible-combinations-only theory for now.
 * But who knows. Kishimoto can play around with the plot any wasy he wants since he's the author. --GoDai (talk) 07:40, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

I've given my thoughts on why I don't think that Fire + Lightning = Blaze a couple sections above. I don't think that poison would reuslt from Fire and Wind, I can see it being something derived from Smoke, but not being the main product of the blend. Thunder is just the sound produced by lightning, and it would be difficult to use because "kaminari" refers to both lightning and thunder, it's the whole phenomenon. I considered Metal as a possibility for Earth and Lightning, but since I hold anime-only higher than films, that's my number two option for that blend, the first one is Crystal. Metal was in one of the movies. I just put stronger versions going on the idea that Blaze is just a uber strong version of Fire, applying that idea to other elements. I'm with you on triple combinations, until they hint at it, I won't speculate on it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * But would it be okay for me to consider Amaterasu as the stronger fire, and Blaze Release allows you to control the flames, not just emit them (usually from your mouth) to ignite other things, like Fire Release?
 * So I think Fire only breathes flames, while Blaze controls them.--GoDai (talk) 18:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I mentioned Earth + Water = Wood seems a little too far out of range, but I think Masashi Kishimoto had to put it somewhere, and that was the best place for it. So I think he will try to "shove in" other stereotypical elements into this system. The only ones left were Poison, Sound, and Metal (the only ones that seemed the most obvious, yet were not in this system)., so I tried squishing them in.
 * I think Smoke may have an extra effect, like Boil Release, which was definitely more than boiling water and hot steam.
 * I don't think the Crystal would be a combination, because Guren fell into many situations where she could have used Lightning (or maybe Earth, but Crystal was probably a better choice than Earth) jutsu to gain an advantage, but she did not. I think the ability itself is non-canon.
 * Haku was shown using a water technique.
 * Yamato was shown using Water and Earth.
 * It was stated Lava is Fire + Earth (I think)
 * Darui was shown using Water and Lightning separately.
 * Mei Terumī herself said she had Earth, Fire, and Water natures, and she had 2 kekkei genkai: Lava and Boil. (She did not possess the ability to combine Earth and Water)
 * Guren did not use any of the component natures of Crystal, leading me to believe it was rather a pseudo-element. She had a high level of skill with it, but was yet unable to generate Crystal from raw chakra. She crystallized her surroundings, including moisture. I believe it was a kekkei genkai that allowed you to control a substance, but not a true Nature (no matter how convincing), like Kimimaro's ability. (They also had similar techniques: Dance of the Clematis: Flower, and Crystal Release: Giant Crystal Dart.) The name itself may have been mistaken, as Guren did not know of the origins of her unique ability, like Haku. Haku did not name his technique "Ice Release" because he did not know the kekkei genkai's name.--GoDai (talk) 18:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Dark, Steel, and Swift natures have no proof as natures, and I think Earth + Lightning would let you control some type of metal, not make your own body as hard as metal, and therefore it would rather resemble Iron Sand. None of the effects of the movie natures resembled Nature Transformation at all. --GoDai (talk) 18:52, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please don't make so many indents, they stretch things too much. Also, you don't need to leave spaces in piped links, do, not  . I think that Blaze Release would account for producing flames to some extent, because Sasuke complimented Gaara on being able to guard against Amaterasu. Don't know about simply controlling it. Maybe controlling Amaterasu, which is particularly powerful fire. I agree that sometimes Guren could have used Lightning to gain an advantage, but Crystal still is a kekkei genkai, because either she or Kakashi said that the Sharingan couldn't copy it, and Orochimaru said that her techniques were a elemental recomposition. Earth and Lightning were the only viable blend. That or an Earth Release with Yin-Yang twist we don't know about. I agree that the natures are rather irksome, but since natures are usually denoted by radical-ton, they're natures for now. Also, Iron Sand is nothing more than magnetism, the Third Kazekage just had magnetic chakra, which he used to manipulate the iron sand. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:10, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Sharingan can't copy k.g., that's true. But advanced elements are only some of the k.g. Shikotsumyaku is a k.g., but not an element-combining one.
 * Haku had no idea the k.g. he had was Ice Release, but Guren's case might be the other way around, while it is a k.g., it might not be an advanced nature, but just very convincing enough to make Orochimaru believe it is an advanced element. Although being called *something*-ton makes it count as an advanced nature, it was anime-only and that doesn't seem enough proof for it being a canon nature. And most of the techniques would have been named by Guren herself or Orochimaru, meaning Orochimaru might have named it Shōton himself. For example, Orochimaru randomly travels all over the world, and finds a kid that can create and manipulate metal or something. He could easily assume it is an advanced nature on the spot, when it might not be an advanced nature.--GoDai (talk) 03:19, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Haha sorry about the indents. I see what you're saying. But is there anything confirmed about Yin and Yang? Can you tell me the chapters where I can find info on this?--GoDai (talk) 19:29, March 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about "Conduction Release"?
 * Actually, we don't know if Haku knew the name of his kekkei genkai. At the very least, he had to know that it involved blending wind and water natured chakra. Seeing that Kirigakure went through a period in which people with kekkei genkai fought and were feared, I'd say that at the very least someone knew its name, I also find it unlikely that Zabuza didn't know its name. Sharingan can't copy any kekkei genkai, element combining or not. Very little is known on Yin and Yang. All that is known is that it is a form of nature transformation responsible for some non-elemental techniques, including but not limited to the Nara clan's shadow techniques, the Akimichi clan's expansion techniques, medical ninjutsu and genjutsu. ShounenSuki's translation is here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 13:20, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Nature Transformation vs. Chakra Infusion
Gaara's sand manipulation is chakra infusion, although unique to him and Shukaku. It is similar to Sai's ink, Kimimaro's bones/calcium, and Konan's paper, etc. These are "pseudo elements," as they all control a substance, but cannot generate it out of nothing. They are all infused with chakra in order to control. Ink cannot be generated, shikotsumyaku requires some bones/calcium to accelerate and direct growth, and Dance of the Shikigami is a transformation jutsu.
 * It is to be noted both Natures and Infused substances have been used for bunshinjutsu, shunshinjutsu, etc.
 * Jiraiya could also infuse hair with chakra to sharpen it, and he could spit oil like a toad.
 * Killer Bee could generate ink from his mouth, being the jinchuriki of the Eight-tails.
 * Kidomaru could infuse spit with chakra to create sticky spider web-like "silk" and infuse sweat with chakra to create a golden metal that could block chakra. --GoDai (talk) 08:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Not so sure - maybe both?
The following seem to be manipulating an element that is able to be generated and controlled through a Nature Transformation, but at the same time, it may not be so in that instance.
 * Deidara had an earth-based jutsu - his famous Exploding Clay - which utilized clay infused with his chakra, which allowed him to detonate them at will. He also had the Iwagakure Kinjutsu, which allowed him to "knead" chakra into materials (therefore energy into matter), like clay. So it seems that he generated clay, then infused it with more chakra.
 * The Two-tails had the ability to control fire. The word "control" is important, as Fire release only allows one to select a shape, then breathe the fire out of the user's mouth (except in the case of Amaterasu). Blaze Release is the nature that allows the manipulation of flames. The phrase "Fire Release" is not placed in front of any of the Two-Tails' techniques (actually hardly any of the techniques are named on the spot). Is this similar to Gaara's case, where the flames have covered Yugito's body on the outside and inside?
 * The Three-tails indirectly controlled water in the form of tidal waves through shockwaves / sonic roars.
 * Utakata's bubble ninjutsu seems to be based on Water Release, considering his affinity. However, his bubble techniques have a wide range of effects, but Water Release has also been seen to be able to control other liquids. The bubble jutsu may also be a unique skill of the Six-tails.
 * The anime seems to like lightning - it has Lightning Fangs, Sword of the Thunder God, and Limelight, which makes Lightning Release seem like a very common and easy element to use...
 * I think the anime should stop using so much lightning and making it seem special.
 * One of the movies also had a Gelel thingy where someone could use Lightning wihout the affinity.
 * I'm really confused with this one - Temari's fan jutsu was classified as Wind Release in the anime - but was it that way in the manga? It more looks like Temari's normal chakra infused with the wind the fan creates, which makes it look like a Wind Release.
 * I think in the anime this guy had a jutsu called Assimilate All Creation Technique and in his battle with Kakashi he copied the properties of a rock. I don't think this should be a Nature Transformation of earth. It is implied he could do this with may other things in nature. He also had a copy of Gaara's jutsu where he used rock powder to imitate sand. I think Earth Release has more of a mud- or moist-soil- theme, and dry-sand/rock- belongs to Shukaku...
 * --GoDai (talk) 08:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

On the Temari case, I think some of them were mentioned as Wind Release in databooks, but I can't vouch for that. I wouldn't consider those assimilated techniques. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:31, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * On this wikia, Nagare's techniques are being classified as Earth jutsu, which I think is wrong. I think the manga never showed Earth Release users generating and controlling rock. It was mud.--GoDai (talk) 18:55, March 6, 2010 (UTC)