Talk:Indra Ōtsutsuki

Something playing on my mind
It's generally agreed that Hagoromo directly inherited the Rinnegan half of her Kekkei Mōra, in it's Mōra form. So I was wondering if Indra inherited an original Mōra form of the other half? Could anyone enlightened as to his databook entry correct me? :) Pesa123456789 (talk) 15:08, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * What?--Elve Talk Page 16:04, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * He's asking if Indora's Sharingan is a Kekkei Mora. Which it isn't. Neither is Hagoromo's Rinnegan, but people here can't accept that databooks make mistakes. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:08, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I see. Well, we can't be 100% sure what is a mistake and what isn't. There are many erroneous inclusions and exclusions in the databook and I thought we don't correct them--Elve Talk Page 16:22, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. But Hagoromo having only the KKM class doesn't mean that his Rinnegan is a KKM in the same way Danzo not having the Kuchiyose class doesn't mean that his Baku is no Kuchiyose. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:31, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * So are you suggesting that we remove the KKM classification from the Rinnegan, then? 18:38, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:49, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

I certainly disagree. Put yourself in the time-pressed Kishi's shoes; he could easily forget Baku amongst his other abilities because it's not the focal point of his arsenal... It was gone as quick as it came, and never even mentioned again. On the flip side, the Rinnegan is one of the two centre pieces of Hagoromo's arsenal - it gets his attention straight away. Pesa123456789 (talk) 19:49, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Kishimoto has countless assistants that helped him writing the databook. There's no way we can know what was a mistake and what was intentional, so the only logical course of action is not to add anything that wasn't explicitely stated. But this wiki isn't really good at using logic. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:55, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming the manga said Rinnegan = KKG and the databook said KKM? If so, then I don't see why not. Manga > databook, right? The rest we can just note in the trivia section. 20:44, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * The databook didn't give Hagoromo KKG, they only gave him KKM for whatever reason. Going by that, people decided that his Rinnegan must've been a KKM, because that's much more likely than the KKM classification being just another mistake in this mistake ridden book. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:49, August 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm fully aware of that (I once considered his TSB to be KKM because of that at one point). Considering the mass confusion the databook brought, we probably didn't have our heads screwed on correctly then. But again, manga > databook. Therefore, if the manga says "Rinnegan = KKG" then that's how it should be classified here, with the KKM thing being noted in the trivia section or so, if possible. 21:27, August 23, 2015 (UTC)

Creator of Ninjutsu
The fourth databook states that Indra was the progenitor of ninjutsu, and developed it in direct opposition of ninshu. Just realized that that fact isn't reflected in any of the articles on this wiki. FF-Suzaku (talk) 02:02, September 21, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, thought it's common knowledge by now ._.--Elve Talk Page 11:56, September 21, 2015 (UTC)

the straight tomoe trivia comment
Why is this even here? There is no 'straight' line involved in either Madara's original sharingan or Indra's which is a spiral pattern. Izuna has three obvious straight bars. I also cant find a translation claiming Madara associated the straight tomoe with a reasoning Madara and Sasuke had more in common than blood.

(Hadrimon (talk) 13:44, June 18, 2016 (UTC))
 * "Straigt Tomoe" term doesn't necessary refer to the pattern, but rather to the eye power, more specifically, to the EMS, which was awakened only by Madara and Sasuke, while both of them are Indra's reincarnates (although, in fact, it's a vague term which was never explained properly). Also, Madara made an assumption about his and Sasuke's possible connection beyond the bloodline in the chapter 674, when analysing his skills and abilities. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 13:56, June 18, 2016 (UTC)

Appearance dispute
There's a small dispute on this page relating to an image of Indra as a young child. Please use this section to solve that discussion instead of back and forth revert warring. Thanks. --Sajuuk 14:38, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason Indra's young child image with Yin seal behind him should stay is because the painfully clear message the manga and anime gives about Indra and Asura: Indra is Yin and Asura is Yang. Manga makes it important. Anime makes it important. Having the both Indra and Asura child images with their respective seals behind makes the both articles balanced. As for Sarutobii2's arguement, "there's already image with young Indra", so does Asura's article.
 * To clarify what I mean here:
 * Indra=elder son, inventor of Ninjutsu, ancestor of Uchiha, crescent moon and Yin seal behind, Madara and Sasuke next to him.
 * Asura=younger son, heir of ninshū, ancestor of Senju and Uzumaki, fullmoon and Yang seal behind, Hashirama and Naruto next to him.
 * Taking away Indra child with Yin seal-image would break this little balance. --JouXIII (talk) 14:59, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ask yourself this. Is the yin seal part of his appearance? The correct answer is no, thus irrelevant to his appearance. Also, for the sake of you wanting symbolism in the article, the personality section already shows the yin seal/moon in full. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:21, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems you missed my point: if both manga and anime makes it important to have Yin and Yang seal behind Indra and Asura respectively, what makes you to deem it "irrelevant", when freaking official media makes it relevant? What's the point uploading images of young Indra and Asura with their respective seals behind them, if we're not going to use them with full potential? If Asura has young child image with Yang seal behind him, than naturally Indra must have his young child image with Yin seal behind him. It's basic logic and balance.--JouXIII (talk) 15:52, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * I read your point, but you're too caught up with the two articles being Yin to the others Yang, your ignoring the fact that the image is not needed. And despite you saying it must be shown because of another article, that's not how articles work. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:22, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not me being "caught up", it's manga and anime that's "caught up". I'm just trying to keep them like manga and anime portrays the two and young Indra with Yin seal is part of it. Also, by that logic of yours, Asura doesn't need that child image of his with Yang seal, because there's already young Asura image in the article and yet it's still there... Hypocrite much? --JouXIII (talk) 16:29, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * You edited Indra's intro back to match Asura's. You reverted Indra's infobox image so the 2 matched. And now this. Its plain as day your trying to keep the articles similar for whatever reason. Unless im blind and there's a image of Asura's full face as a child in his background, then im not a hypocrite. Rather than resort to personal attacks, actually give a valid reason that doesn't involve Asura or that symbol which is in now way relevant to his physically appearance or attire. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:54, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Again, the reason I'm "keeping articles similiar" is because manga and anime(the official media we're suppose to record, you know) have both Indra and Asura having the counterparts(the seals, Ninjutsu and Ninshū ancestory, etc), thus young Indra with Yin seal is actually relevant. --JouXIII (talk) 17:12, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * We are using an official source to record his childhood appearance. The fact that you're arguing over showing an emblem which is irrelevant to his appearance is mind boggling. And before you say its relevant, lack of mention in said paragraphs makes it irrelevant. This is a wiki, not a art gallery, so stop inserting unnecessary images to show what's already shown elsewhere in the article. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:35, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * So you consider manga and anime "mind boggling", huh... Interesting. Also, I was simply following your logic and you refuted me using it. That right there is hypocrisy at best. --JouXIII (talk) 18:03, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox Image
Given how every other Sharingan user is depicted without their Sharingan activated in their infobox if possible, i propose to change Indra's image to this, which shows his most frequent and natural appearance. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 11:02, July 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's fugly. Also, manga show him with Sharingan pretty much all the time, so with current image, we follow both manga and anime. --JouXIII (talk) 11:33, July 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * Been 24 days, but revisiting this. Can we please decide on which image to use on the talkpage rather than through edit summaries during edit warring? Don't care which image is used, but can we have proper consensus on it, please? 01:37, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * I assumed this image war was over since the image stopped being changed, but i see now that was due to Jace protecting the page. But looking over the edit summaries, the image Jou is in support for is blurred, thus making it clearly inferior to any image that isn't. So i support this image.
 * If it comes down to which Shringan activated image we should use out of un-blurred & blurred, then the un-blurred image is the better one. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 06:04, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's fugly as sin so no, it isn't better. Also, since we're suppose to reflect both manga and anime, the current image is best for it. Let us not be as incompetent as Studio Pierrot, okay? --JouXIII (talk) 12:12, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you keep going on about things being "fugly", but it's getting very annoying that you put down just about any contributions and call many perfectly respectable pictures "fugly". Obsessing over perfections and having images that are mirror images of the manga do not help the wiki whatsoever.
 * I support any image that is not blurred, which means I oppose JouXIII's constant edit wars over the Asura and Indra articles. Jou seems to be rather obsessed about having the Asura and Indra pages be near mirror images of each other and it needs to stop, because it neither helps the wiki or is necessary. --Sajuuk 12:20, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not obsession, it's what both manga and anime says. Also, those images are fugly, simple as that, and they don't improve this article or wiki, pretty opposite actually. As for "blurriness" of current image, you can see clearly it's Indra.
 * Just because you don't care about the series or have something against Indra, doesn't you have to make wiki suffer for it. --JouXIII (talk) 12:30, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is "obsession". All I have seen you do here is edit war and obsess over having two separate articles be near identical for your own random reasons.
 * Also, your blurred image is bad for use in an infobox and therefore I oppose its use in the page. The non-blurred pictures are preferred on this wiki, especially for the infobox.
 * Also, stop trying to make yourself more important than you are by insulting people and suggesting they "don't care about the series". If I didn't care about this series, I wouldn't have edited here for 6 years. So you can stop with the backhanded comments about other people's "care" of the series. Your opinion is not more important than anyone else's here.--Sajuuk 12:33, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

I'm all for the image Saru proposed of Indra qithout his Sharingan or MS activated. It is of better quality, has no blurriness and no other person in the background. I don't know how the word "fugly" is even being used to describe Saru's image proposal, but that couldn't be more wrong. --Rai 水 (talk) 13:00, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Thing is, I'm against unnecessary changes and this definitely is very unnecessary change.
 * "Blurry" would be something you cover middle finger in TV. The only place Saru's image wouldn't be considered fugly would be some bizarre alternate universe.
 * As for Madara being behind Indra, it's on purpose, like with Asura having Hashirama behind him, as well as Asura and and Indra are behind Hagoromo.
 * Also, Indra is always shown Sharingan activated in the manga, like Shisui.
 * So again, there's no good reason to change Indra's infobox image. --JouXIII (talk) 13:49, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * I know that the image of Madara behind Indra is on purpose, but that doesn't mean we can't find an image that isn't as such. So what if in the manga Indra is shown with the Sharingan activated. Are we saying that Indra doesn't have normak eyes. If anything none of your reasons are good @Jou. --Rai 水 (talk) 14:53, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Plenty of good reasons have been brought up and if anything, calling images a made up word is not a good reason. For the most part, you've given no logical reasons Jou and it's clear as day from your countless edit summaries saying things like "this works nicely as counterpart of Asura's infobox" & "it's good contrast to Asura" that your committed to making the 2 articles match. Either pick non blurred sharingan or non sharingan as using a blurry image is illogical and goes against countless images that have been changed on this wiki to depict better colourisation. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:59, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * For me, I'm fine with either of the two images Saru linked just above this comment. Neither is fugly, and having the reincarnates in the background is both unnecessary and distracting. That goes for Asura's image as well. Of the two Saru linked, I'd pick the Sharingan one, as in the other, Indra actually looks like a nice person, which we know he ended up not being. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:38, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * There is also this image of Asura that doesn't have the reincarnate in the background. Just letting y'all know. Carry on. 16:01, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * The only thing I can nitpick about that Asura image is that he's not wearing his usual white attire with the high collar and the tomoe. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:29, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:36, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

I like the first image Saru linked (with the Sharingan activated). The current image of Indra has the shadow in the background and he looks a bit like a simpleton. Are there no images in the anime of Indra with the swirl-pattern dōjutsu? I'd like to see their images changed to match their manga depictions as best as possible.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:15, July 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Only time he appeared with Swirlgan in the anime was the same time he did in the manga, and that was animated with that different style resembling old woodcut art and what not. And was also super blurry too if I recall. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:28, July 25, 2016 (UTC)