Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-30323490-20180607192958/@comment-34194151-20180911053642

@Cleoina

Yup that time of year again huh, moved back into my dorm myself today.

Yeah Nagato can react to a frontal blitz. But I think minato would try to let him cast a hand sign first. Minato likes to use his speed like that. It's not so much that nagato is horribly outsped, it's just a timing and focus thing. Look at Mifune vs hanzo. Hanzo tried to form a handseal and in the next panel mifune was already in his face. It's not so much that hanzo is slower than mifune it's just that when you try to focus on casting a jutsu, you're focus is impaired for a few milliseconds. IT makes sense, because you literally have to try and mould chakra throughout your body. Try aiming a bow an arrow while trying to run to the left at the same time. You will find aiming becomes extremely hard for a short interval of time. that's why hanzo had to cancel his sign, but he had no trouble reacting to mifune otherwise. The same thing happened when kcm naruto attacked Lord Muu from behind, Lord muu had to deactivate his particle style in order to dodge, then reactivate. If mifune is fast enough to cover that distance between him and hanzo, so is minato, and minato would do it even easier with his superior speed.

So, that's why I say minato's regular shunshin gets slept on. The only reason Ayy could tell so quickly that minato's extreme speed (FTG) involves the kunai was because he got to see it twice, and the second time made it obvious, because minato was in-mid air when he got to the kunai, when just an instant of time before he was on a tree. But minato doesn't always fight like that. The only reason things went that way, was because Ayy literally gave minato time to setup his kunai, due to his lack of intel, but also because Ayy doesn't use hand seals, he is a taijutsu based speedster. If Ayy tried to cast a handseal, minato would have blitzed him and tried to interrupt it, at the cost of not being able to spam like 30 kunai.

Against Nagato, this is why I stress that his IC initial action is his downfall. He is 90 percent likely to open with a summon, and steal initiative, it's just his thing, and that uses a handseal. The second minato sees nagato prepareing the seal, he is definitely more than fast enough to take kunai out of his pouch, start a shunshin, and plant a kunai behind nagato. Minato is smart enough to place it slightly to the right or left, to make it seem like he missed. Nagato wouldn't think anything of it. Minato can then use shunshin, and with minato's speed, shunshin looks like teleportation over a short distance like 30 feet. Even in real life humans can cover that distance in like 3 seconds, so imagine what minato can do. Minato would close the distance by the time nagato is resolving his handseal, and he would interrupt his focus. Nagato is still quick enough to use shinra-tensei though, and I think it's his smartest action. IT allows him to create distance and get into his comfort zone. Once minato is flying away, nagato would get the chance to finally resolve his summoning, But then, minato can teleport back to that same kunai in the blink of an eye and use FTG level 2 rasengan, as he will try to end the fight before nagato can do anything else. This action, would tip nagato off to avoid the kunai though, because it's the only way minato could have gotten back to that location so quickly after being thrown like 5 feet vertically into the air lol. Other than that, Nagato has no way to immediately realize that the kunai is the key to minato's speed, he would assume minato is just naturally that fast in the initial circumstance i presented.

The only other initial action i see nagato doing in character is the bansho tenin + giantblade/meteor/soul rip combo, which screws him over just the same. If kakashi can use a ninja weapon while being pulled, so can minato. Minato would do the same thing I've already described, planting a kunai slightly behind nagato but to the right or left so as to make it look like he missed. and then teleport to it last second. This action would of course tip off nagato to the kunai, but he still would get tagged by the hirashin staged two rasengan.

MAYBE, nagato opens with a decent sized shinra-tensei, but that also screws him over without knowledge, as minato would just throw a kunai back in the same manner I have described for a few posts now. With initial knowledge, he would use a massive shinra tensei to get minato as far away as possible, then when minato tries to throw kunai back at him, he would use wind style, but in character, I don't see him knowing to do that immediately without this prior knowledge, it's a tactic he would use later in the fight.

Well, deus ex machina sucks huh? I see your logic with jiokudo,logically nagato shouldn't have been a cripple if he could heal himself. Using the 6 paths pain still would have been smart, as they basically serve as shadow clones and can gather intel on enemies and are still pretty deadly.He didn't need to be a cripple. But Idk if we can use this as a definitive option if nagato hasn't shown it in character. But since it is a stated ability, Nagato may actually pull it off. If that's the case, then I don't see how minato can put him down if he can just put himself inside jigokudo and then come back out brand new lol. Minato's weakness is his DPS. So you have me sold on that one.

I also doubt that nagato could remove the mark. This might be another case of PIS, but obito had that mark for 16 years, never tried to remove it. You would think that after he escaped to the kamui dimension, he would have zetsu look for the mark and then cut off the piece of skin that has it or something, but he didn't. I thought it was stated you could never remove the mark. Not even Juubito could remove tobirama's mark. The only outlier we have is minato's mark dissappearing the instant obito became a TTJ, but that was never explained. so MAYBE nagato can remove it, but it's unclear.

I believe minato is one of the worst opponents to face without initial knowledge, because FTG+ his natural speed is really overpowered to the unsuspecting opponent, same can be said for nagato too though in terms of the rinnegan's versatility.