Talk:Zabuza Momochi/Archive 1

The Sword of Zabuza
I am unsure of this bit of information, but I read from somewhere that Zabuza's sword's name is Executioner, in reference to its physical shape of that of a guillotine blade. Yes? No? --Dubtiger 19:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe tht I read somewhere that it is called the Guillotine Sword, but I am not sure, I'll edit if I get any more info on this topic for you. --Ikijime Koorimusha 20:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hehe... Found this on the wiki just after I posted... ''His weapon of choice is a Zanbatō, which translates into "horse slayer" as it was intended to cleave the head of a horse off with its massive weight and size. He seems to prefer water jutsu, this is probably due to him being from the Hidden Mist. Although the zanbato's name was never mentioned at all, Suigetsu mentioned that its name is Executioner. Another suggested translation of zanbato is "guillotine", which implies that it is used to cleave necks. The circle cut out of the top and the semicircle near the handle, as demonstrated by Suigetsu later in the manga, seem to fit this. purpose aptly

'' Peace! --Ikijime Koorimusha 20:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

But, Most Official Things, including Non-Canon Games (Like Ultimate Ninja) Say its name is Decapitating Carving Knife --Silver Sinspawn (talk) 11:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Zabuza's Rank
There seems to be some dispute over Zabuza being a Jonin, or ANBU.

Personally I don't see why they are being treated as mutually exclusive. Tenzo/Yamato is an example of a shinobi whose skill is recognized as that of a Jonin, and is a member of ANBU. It also seems clear from the dialog that the reader being clued in to his rank.

Example: Jonin

Kakashi: "If we get attacked again it will surely not be a Chunin, but a Jonin." Ch.11 Kakashi: "This one's on a whole other level." Ch.11 Sasuke: "The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed." Ch.12

Example: ANBU

Zabuza: "When I was a member of the Hidden Mist's assassin team..." Ch.12

Unless there is some data book that ranks Zabuza specifically lower than a Jonin it seems clear he was both. Just my two cents. Arrancar79 16:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The databooks treat ANBU as a separate and higher rank then jōnin. Also, it has never actually been said that Zabuza was a jōnin. Only that he was an ANBU.
 * Just because he was said to be as strong as a jōnin doesn't mean he ever actually held that rank.
 * By the way, about your quotes:
 * Kakashi: "If we get attacked again it will surely not be a Chunin, but a Jonin." Ch.11
 * At least in the Japanese manga, Kakashi specifically talks about the level of the attackers, not their actual rank. Obviously, Zabuza is as strong as a jōnin, but that doesn't mean he ever was one. Haku was at least as strong as a chūnin, perhaps even a Jōnin, but he never held either rank.
 * Kakashi: "This one's on a whole other level." Ch.11
 * Zabuza was on a whole other level. As a former ANBU, Zabuza would have been far stronger than the chūnin-level Demon Brothers.
 * Sasuke: "The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed." Ch.12
 * Sasuke was referring directly to Kakashi's killing intent here.
 * --ShounenSuki 16:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Even ANBU are ranked as other ninja.


 * Haku was not trained by a Hidden Village with an official military like Zabuza, so that seems beside the point.


 * Good point "a whole other level" is vague. Though Kakashi was aware of who the "Chunin" Demon Brothers were, and certainly who they worked for. The identity of the "Jonin" he expected was not just a guess. Being missing-nin, as well as the attempted assassin of the Mizukage they were in his Bingo Book. We can be sure he got a lot of attention in its pages.


 * I must disagree, "What incredibly dangerous chakra, It feels like I'll be killed if I make a single move. This could drive a person crazy... The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed... I can't take it... I'd almost rather die and get it over with..." This thought came after Zabuza faded into the mist, and began to contemplate out loud how he would kill them. The mind games are what put Sasuke on edge.


 * Naruto "This is a Jonin, a real ninja." Ch.13


 * Being one of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist it is unlikely he would be less than Jonin rank, ANBU or not.

Arrancar79 21:24, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Even ANBU are ranked as other ninja.
 * Really? Says who? ANBU don't even have to have graduated from the Academy. They are hand-picked by the Hokage. They might assume a normal rank while undercover among regular shinobi (e.g. Yamato), but that doesn't mean they actually hold that rank.
 * Haku was not trained by a Hidden Village with an official military like Zabuza, so that seems beside the point.
 * All right, what about Naruto? He's a genin, yet he's strong enough to fight Akatsuki members. He's easily chūnin level, so does that mean he's a chūnin?
 * Good point "a whole other level" is vague. Though Kakashi was aware of who the "Chunin" Demon Brothers were, and certainly who they worked for. The identity of the "Jonin" he expected was not just a guess. Being missing-nin, as well as the attempted assassin of the Mizukage they were in his Bingo Book. We can be sure he got a lot of attention in its pages.
 * There is no evidence Kakashi expected Zabuza to be the next to attack them. He expected a high-level opponent, but not Zabuza specifically.
 * I must disagree, "What incredibly dangerous chakra, It feels like I'll be killed if I make a single move. This could drive a person crazy... The intensity of a Jonin... it feels like my life is being squeezed... I can't take it... I'd almost rather die and get it over with..." This thought came after Zabuza faded into the mist, and began to contemplate out loud how he would kill them. The mind games are what put Sasuke on edge.
 * No it didn't, read that part again. Sasuke said that directly after Kakashi, about 4 pages after Zabuza had disappeared into the mist.
 * Naruto "This is a Jonin, a real ninja." Ch.13
 * Because Naruto was an expert on Zabuza's past? Naruto likely would have said jōnin-level if he knew Zabuza. Not in the least because missing-nin lose their rank, regardless of what it was.
 * Being one of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist it is unlikely he would be less than Jonin rank, ANBU or not.
 * And why couldn't he simply be an ANBU? Why would a specially selected shinobi who was trained outside the normal ranks necessarily have a normal rank? They do other missions, have other duties, other selection procedures. There is no reason for them to have a normal rank besides their ANBU rank.
 * --ShounenSuki 21:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Every village ninja holds a rank. ANBU is not a rank it is a special unit like the Konoha Military Police, Medical-nin, or Hunter-nin. Even if the rank is secret, the ninja will be given a rank and promotion based on skill.


 * "All right, what about Naruto?"
 * Naruto's rank is a special case. The village elders have done all they can to hold him back for fear of the Nine-Tails.


 * "He expected a high-level opponent, but not Zabuza specifically."
 * OK, good point.


 * "...about 4 pages after Zabuza had disappeared into the mist."
 * After disappearing he talks out loud about where he should strike. "Liver, Lungs...Which one should I go after?" - 4 frames later - Sasuke freaks. The anime rewords it a bit, and suggests its the stress of two Jonin poised to strike. I'd say at best were both right, and at worst it's pretty subjective.


 * Because Naruto was an expert on Zabuza's past?"
 * I'm not saying that at all. My point is Zabuza is called a Jonin 3 times(4 in the anime), appears in flashbacks wearing the flack vest of his village, and has the background to support having that rank before becoming a missing-nin. Shy of Zabuza stopping the fight and saying, "By the way. If anyone was wondering, YES I really am an official Jonin." it couldn't get more clear than that.

Arrancar79 14:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this conversation could use a few outside opinions. Otherwise we'll be talking in circles.


 * Naruto's rank has nothing to do with the village elders trying to hold him back. It's plain and simple. He always missed the chunin exam or had something ruin the exam so he could not pass.
 * ANBU is a occupation, not a rank. People can come and go from ANBU, but that never changes what rank they hold.
 * I'm calling in another little favor on this one, give it a bit of time. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Aug 13, 2008 @ 18:21 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm Tommy6 a helper of wikia. I'm here due to w:User_talk:Yukichi.
 * According to the article of Naruto's character in Japanese Wikipedia, ANBU (暗部) is a abbreviation of 暗殺戦術特殊部隊 (In English:Special Unit of Assassination Tactis), so it says ANBU is not a word of rank. And the databook you presented do not mention his rank.--Tommy6 00:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you were to check out the databook 1 entry for ANBU and the databook 2 entry for Uzuki Yuugao, you'll see that their ranks are ANBU. If you check out the fanbook, you'll see that the ANBU aren't just a special function normal ninja can hold. They're completely outside of the regular forces, which means they're also outside of the regular ranks.
 * ANBU members are specifically selected by the Hokage for whatever he wants to select them for. ANBU mebers don't even have to have graduated from the Academy.


 * That said, even if you wouldn't accept ANBU as a rank for Zabuza, there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that he ever held the rank of jōnin. --ShounenSuki 16:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the problem is that when Naruto saw Zabuza defeating Sasuke, he said: "This is a jonin, a true ninja". 213.67.182.127 (talk) 05:42, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Difference in anime and manga
If you noticed anime showed that the semi-circle on sword is on the blunt side, but in manga it was on the bladed side. (in both Zabuza and Suigetsu appearences)Paths 13:36, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Can somebody pay attention to this masage, it is important in a way.Paths 16:49, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to reply to an old post, but that's incorrect. The semi-circle is always on the bladed side, manga and anime.74.240.252.227 (talk) 18:53, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Zabuza's Birthday
Is there any reason for Zabuza's Birthday to not be showing up on his page? I went to edit the page and it showed it was already there but in the preview and on the page, it doesn't show up. --Ultimt evil 05:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed it. The infobox said birthday instead of birthdate. --ShounenSuki 08:02, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #16693
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #16693 on 2008-12-26 05:00:05 UTC

zabuza left the mist village being a jounin wich was his hishgest rank and he becomes a mising ninja class S because he did an atmept to kill the mizukage an invade the vilage hidden in the mist atking many lives of ANBU apart from the horrible incident when he ganed his nickname "the demon hidden in tha mist"killing more than a hundred students older than him

Appearance
there is nothing on his appearance (eyebrowless face)--~{ G G  113 )~( has low tolerance ) 16:17, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * "In some scenes of the anime, Zabuza did not have any eyebrows." ~SnapperTo 18:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

More Images
Just wondering, we should add more images to Zabuza page, like his last moments, he and haku and more. Beacause even thought he died, he and haku were great part in naruto. -because of haku, sasuke awakened his sharingan -zabuzas sword appeared later with suigetsu -he appears in a lot of flashbacks later in the series, even in shippuden -hes quite popular -he has alot of water-based jutsus.

Mizukage
In What episode (and which part of it, would be nice) does it say he failed to assassinate the mizukage. Simant (talk) 20:02, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't know the exact one, but I think it would the first or second episode he appeared in. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:05, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I pretty sure i heard kakashi say that zabuza succeed in killing the mizukage and failed in the coup.. I even seem to remember a slight flash back to him slashing someone (presumably the mizukage?) in a silhouette, then he and his followers fled) but i once tried to go through the arc again.. and it wasnt in the first 3 i believe... i got bored with listening for that exact phrase, though that exact phrase might have only been in a specific version of the dub/subs... Simant (talk) 20:12, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Kakashi indicates he failed in chapter 30. ~SnapperTo 23:39, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok i see in the manga, but I still wonder if they made a mistake in the anime (or just some people remembering inaccurately). and it looks like it should be around where haku died, i'll check the anime. Simant (talk) 23:52, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, i see in manga, and found in episode 17 towards end. But i was right about the flashback with siloutte and killing someone. -.0 Simant (talk) 23:52, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

So, which Mizukage did he try and off?
Do we have enough time information to figure out which Mizukage he likely went after? ZeroSD (talk) 02:27, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to hazard a guess and say Yagura but at the current moment in time we don't have enough information to make a definitive answer to this question.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 02:32, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * As SuperN said, there is not enough information. We do know it was either the Fourth or the Fifth Mizukage, though. --ShounenSuki (talk 02:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Actually its unlikly to be the fifth, from the dialogue in the mangam, it suggests Terumi only became Mizukage very recently

Zabuza's Headband
Has anyone else noticed the fact that Zabuza's headband is not slashed like a normal Missing-Nin? I have checked the anime and manga, and every time he is shown, his forehead protector is unmarred. This leads me to wonder if it means anything special, an accident on Kishimoto's part (Since he was the first missing-nin to be seen), or simply the fact that Zabuza believes he was truly supporting Kirigakure with the coup. -- What are you guys' thoughts? HG-Bounder-X (talk) 07:36, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nobody has said that all missing-nins scratch their headband. The Akatsuki members do it to show that they no longer care about their village. Jacce | Talk 07:38, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It just seemed curious to me since he is the only one I've noticed without a scratch. But, now that I think about it, I don't recall any others that didn't betray their village, instead of the other way around. HG-Bounder-X (talk) 08:28, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Zabuza doesnt hate his village like tha Akatsuki members do, quite the opposite. he became a renegade to free it from its bloodthisty ways. So it makes sense that even if normal renegade members slash their headbands (of which theres no indication anyone but the Akatsuki do) Zabuza wouldnt because he still cares about his heritage. (UTC)

Age
I had undone a edit to Zabuza' page when someone added that he would be 19 at the time of the manga instead of the current age of 26 that we have on here. However, looking back at their edit, looking back at the manga chapter, makes me think they are onto something here if we have the graduation age of 9, his background saying that he wasn't even a student at the time of the graduation massacre, or a ninja for that matter, and this massacre was 10 years before the manga. Makes me think either translation mistake done in the manga, or Kishimoto is contridicting himself as Zabuza, if he graduated ten years before the manga, and he was 9 at the time, would then be 19, instead of 26, or even younger. I have no idea. Could anyone clear the light on this? --Juubi no Ryuu (talk) 02:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

We're going by what's officially been stated. Perhaps there is a contradiction. If so, it would be best to create a sub-section below titled "Age?", rather than putting in the infobox Age- 26 (19?)--Red Dog31 (talk) 02:14, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

What chapter's and page's were these numbers given in? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:33, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Chapter 14, page 8. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 04:57, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

It says 10 years ago the exam had been changed because the previous year zabuza killed them all. Zabuza graduated at 9 so I'm going to say he took the exam and graduated the year after he killed those other kids. So Manga official age is 19 yrs old at the begining of naruto. Its nothing special as The Databooks give Contradicting age's for Iruka too. So Iruka was 10 at the time of the 9 tailed fox attack and after it. Making Iruka 22 at the begining of Naruto, Databook 2 and 3 state Iruka's age's as 23 and 26, Officially retconning the Databook 1 age of 25 so In this case we have to wait til Databook 4 to see Zabuza'a age again as maybe Databook 1's age for him was a mistake too and it will really be labeled as 19. Which means When naruto was 2 Zabuza graduated the exam and some point soon after that he tried to assassinate Yagura. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:26, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Another interesting fact is he never became a chuunin according to what Databook 1 shows. So he graduated from the academy at 9, then became appointed Anbu by Yagura the 4th Mizukage, then became part of the Seven Swordsman, then Zabuza tried to assassinate Yagura and left Kirigakure. He took Haku with him on the way out of the Water Country. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 18:52, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Not really interesting, we knew that already from everything that is in his infobox. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:34, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

he was talking about the fact Zabuza never became chuunin you douchebag.
 * Which can be seen from the infobox.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 03:53, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Yagura
According to this:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=570610 It was Yagura that Zabuza was trying to assassinate.Umishiru (talk) 08:23, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Special Kunai
I´m reading the volume 4 and I have noted a special kunai, we can to cite this? --Vinidamatta2 (talk) 20:32, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chapter 521 page 15--Cerez365 (talk) 13:19, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

The Sword's Destruction?
Did A CUT the sword in half, or SNAP the sword in half? The sword's article says snapped, Zabuza's article says cut.ZPRN (talk) 21:51, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Snap would imply bending it with force to break it...he used Lightning Release and cut the sword in half--Cerez365 (talk) 13:17, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Killer Bee cut through part of the sword against Taka. During the fight against A, using his Raiton Armour, he broke it. It just seems it broke cleanly along the cut Bee made. SharinganMike (talk) 13:17, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

Team page
Any idea whether we should make a team page for him, Haku, Pakura and Gari? And a name for it in case we do? I know they didn't have a proper introduction as a team like the other IWR team, but it appears they're functioning as one nonetheless. Just not sure if there is a fifth member, in chapter 520, you can see someone that's not any of the four, though you can see just the hair. I think it's the Kumogakure guy, but he's not with them in chapter 521. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:59, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Bloodline Team?--98.117.165.233 (talk) 23:00, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking about making it because i mean the alliance said that the whole "team" has bloodline limits soo ughhhhhhh idk. if you guys want ill make it --DragonStyleNaruto - Talk - Contributions 17:43, December 27,2010 (EST)

Abiities Section Mistake
Okay, So I was browsing through his abilities section and I came across this statement, "He also demonstrated considerably great strength, able to crush solid objects like an apple when only at partial strength",While this statement could be true I don't really see how crushing an apple shows great strength, so with that being said can I delete that statement? --Iam... JakuhoRaikoben 15:14, January 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ever tried crushing an apple with a single hand? It does take considerable strength. Although I would personally find the fact he effortlessly wields the Kubikiribōchō a far better example of his strength. —ShounenSuki (talk 15:36, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Lol, well yes it does take a good amount of strength if we were talking out of Universe but as far as in Universe I'm sure many of the characters even Genin's could crush an apple with little to no effort, but I do agree that his wielding of the Kubikiribōchō is a better example so I'll go edit it. --Iam... JakuhoRaikoben 16:02, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Land of Waves
Should zabuza and Haku have Land of Waves affiliation?--LeafShinobi (talk) 12:24, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, they're not actually affiliated with the Land of Waves. They were just staying there temporarily. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:51, January 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks.--LeafShinobi (talk) 15:56, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Demon shroud
I noticed the demonic oni chakra he has seems visible to characters who watch him. Since chakra is normaly invisible is it worth adding this to the trivia comment on this shroud
 * Please read the article people spend a lot of time writing them. Also sign your posts.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:01, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Reference
"Kakashi later stated that he hesitated before cutting Haku and that (though he didn't admit it) Haku's death had shaken him." Can someone give me a Chapter and page to confirm this? --Questionaredude (talk) 03:36, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Chapter 524 Page 7--TricksterKing (talk) 04:35, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Was he referring to himself or Zabuza? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:19, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was referring to Zabuza.--TricksterKing (talk) 08:25, February 7, 2012 (UTC)

Zabuza - S-Rank Or A-Rank?
Good day. After carefully considering all that was stated regarding Zabuza's rank on the talk page (a few topics above), it came to my attention that the article does not reveal whether Zabuza is S-rank or A-rank.

I understand that it is probable that no canonical source reveals Zabuza's rank in this regard, but, considering Zabuza's status as a former ANBU and jonin, his legacy as the 'Demon of the Hidden Mist', his position as one of the Seven Swordsmen, his unrivaled silent-killing ability, and his murky past, is he not worthy of being considered an S-rank missing-nin? Of course, this is pure speculation, but I believe it is something notable. 41.134.8.193 (talk) 16:36, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Weapons
i am not sure if it is correct or not but this page says he used a tanto...when? i do not remember this at all--208.124.127.75 (talk) 09:05, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Anime-Manga Differences. -- The Goblin  09:09, October 24, 2012 (UTC)