User talk:Omnibender/Elemental recomposition table

Caustic/Corrosion release
While I don't really know what elements could made it, Caustic/Corrosion release seems like a very legit idea for an advanced nature related to Earth Release. Caustic minerals/earth products are common, such as calcium oxide and other limes, which are highly corrosive and capable of making dangerous chemical burns. Using Earth chakra to extract from/transform normal dirt and soil into these caustic minerals seems very plausible. Also, their contact with water makes then release lots of energy, maybe even enough to create an explosion.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 13:29, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * There are a few natures which already have some relation to that. Kurotsichi's Lava Release uses lime, which is supposed to be caustic, and Boil Release is corrosive by nature. I also have Rust Release in the decaying aspect of it, and it uses Earth Release in my conception. The only spots left for Earth Release combinations are involving Lightning Release and either Yin or Yang. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:40, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Effects
I thought knowing the effects of certain natures would help with coming up with new ones by avoiding suggesting something already there. So I was wondering: I know it's not too big of a deal, but I was just wondering, because I wasn't sure if the Alkali Metal nature idea was viable in the first place. --GoDai (talk) 00:39, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Is Cloud Release limited to manipulating water vapor in a condensed form, or can it do other things, like precipitation and charging up electricity?
 * Do you have a specific type of Gas in mind for Gas Release? If it gives chakra the nature of a gas, does that mean a whole variety of gases are available? I mean I would guess things like Smoke are unavailable, but is it simply any gas except ones that are with other elements? Or maybe it could transform chakra into an "ideal gas" with higher temperature and lower pressure?
 * Is Metal Release able to manipulate any metal on the periodic table, and alloys? Or is it more like the stereotypical iron and steel?
 * Does Power Release basically deal with conversion of energy in general?
 * What would Sky Release do? The kanji for sky can also mean heaven, space, emptiness, or vacuum, but I'm not sure if the components would directly connect to such themes.
 * Does Mercury Release simply produce and manipulate mercury?
 * Does Flint Release revolve around the sparks that it creates?

I haven't given much thought on what each of them would do, I always try going by the theme, since I find that to be a more restrictive approach, forcing me to be pickier. Here goes: The reason I avoided putting alkali is because Mei could alter the pH of her Boil Release, so I thought that if she wanted, she could create a corrosive alkali instead. That didn't happen but the Six-Tails did. There are some concepts I thought up, but didn't add to the table, that in the end showed up in the series anyway. When I was looking for triple combinations involving earth, I thought of rubber using water and yin, and coral using water and yang. I never put those down, even uncommented, and look what happened to these. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Cloud Release, I see manipulation of the water vapour. I don't really see it as creating electricity (that would be like the movie version of Storm Release), though I can see it being used to diffuse Lightning Release techniques, soaking up the electricity and dispersing it. I can also see some degree of solidification of the clouds, just enough to push things.
 * Gas Release, the most basic thing would be a highly combustible gas that could combust spontaneously. I wouldn't rule out trying to make specific gases, though that would require a certain skill and finesse to change the chakra into the gas you want.
 * Metal Release, I can see it as creating and controlling metal. If it's metallic, it can control it. Creating metal would make generic forms of metal such as steel and iron, but with more skill, other stronger metals could be created as well. However, I do think that this would only work well with solids, so if you manage to melt it, control over it would be poor.
 * Power Release, it's all about energy conversion. For example, turning one type of energy into another form of energy, or increasing/decreasing the energy in something. Everything would deal with the manipulation of energy. You'd have to create something or use some energy first so it could be manipulated though, and it would only control the manipulation. It wouldn't control the energy once it's converted, one would only be able to change the energy again.
 * Sky Release is one of those I picked only based on it presenting the components together. Maybe some sort of energy a la Storm Release.
 * Mercury Release would produce mercury and manipulate it as well.
 * Flint Release is a bit like Deidara's exploding clay. There would be a material component, if it hits something, it creates the sparks which explode and set things on fire.

Oh I see, that made a lot of sense for me. Also, so Water+Lightning+Yin will be something along the lines of Umishiru's malfunction and Earth+Lightning+Yin will be the Welding one? Are the other two undecided? What are you thinking of right now? --GoDai (talk) 02:01, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have already settled for those two ideas, though there's a few things with their names I still want to sort out. The word for weld can be written in three different ways. It uses the same kanji that changes according to village in Lava Release, and as it turns out, I discovered there's a third variant of that, using the metal radical instead of water and fire. I want to know if there's any difference on the meaning of the word depending on the kanji, since that one seems to be rarer than the fire radical one. Maybe one them is more appropriate for the effect of welding things, which I believe would be the metal one. I also don't know how Weld Release would be. 接遁 = Shōton/Setsuton/Setton? On the Water/Lightning/Yin, there are many different words for it, so I'm looking them up to see if there's any word in Japanese that fits the idea more than the others. No idea on Lightning/Earth/Yang and Lightning/Water/Yang though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:28, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

How about the Amber Release idea? Does Amber have too little connections with electricity for it to be viable? I think Glass as a "solid wind" and Amber as a "solid lightning" would've been a good duality, since static electricity was discovered by friction between the two. But I also imagine that its connections to electricity seem quite minimal. Yang could be related to the organic part though. --GoDai (talk) 08:22, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Ugh, I can't find it but i remembered when I asked about Sky you gave a much clearer answer that made me understand it. reading the archive made me realize I was pushing salt for a long time. >.>Umishiru (talk) 08:44, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I remember someone suggesting Amber, though I believe that the minimal connection with electricity made me pass it. I also ran into amber when I was searching organic gems for a combination I don't recall right now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I see, I guess the English word "electricity" being derived from the Greek word for amber doesn't really change anything about the Japanese. Also, wh you say higher skill would allow creating more stronger metals with Metal Release, would it also have control over the softer kinds of metals, like the metals in groups 1 and 2 on the periodic table (Alkali metals and alkaline earth metals)? And a "Catalyst Release" wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion, but at this moment I have no strong ideas. All the ideas I come up with seem to have way too little connection with Lightning. --GoDai (talk) 01:57, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

I see no reason for them not to be controllable. The one way I can see them in a non-controllable form if they're in a form that makes them non-metallic. For example, sodium wouldn't be controllable if it's like kitchen salt. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:59, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Medicine Release
Water + Lightning + Yang = Medicine/Elixir/Vital Release. Water is seen as a life saving substance, lightning is similar to the brain signals that multi-celled organisms use to operate and has been looked at by science fiction especially in Frankenstein as essential to life and processes. Yang is life energy itself and believe medical ninjutsu are basically Yang Release jutsu. The idea is a liquid Yang release or liquid that has the same function as medical ninjutsu only stronger than either. Sort of like a Fountain of Youth/Elixir of life or the Panacea that boggled the minds of alchemists. Perhaps a alchemy release.Umishiru (talk) 08:49, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Health Release is there already, kinda overlaps with this idea. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:54, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Oops I forgot about the yin-yang combos.Umishiru (talk) 01:09, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Reveal Release
Truth/Reveal Release. I was reading the wikipedia article on yin and yang and how its seen as Yang as the sun over the valley and yin as the shadow formed from the light hitting one side of the valley. Going off of Sui's table I was thinking how Yang has the heaven quality, lightning is seen in many cultures as an act of God(s) or heaven as a punishment or sign. Earth which has Yin as its symbol is cold and materialistic, and since heaven is seen as more morally correct than the other two, earth represents the lie Yang represents heaven who is seen many cultures as all knowing with lightning as their judgment. The idea is that Yang shines its light(going by Sui's table of yin and yang on the light intensity section on earth in which shadows created by such a thing or ridden of by lightning who producing its own like. The idea is that Truth release reveals the truth of a target and that truth depending what the user knows.Umishiru (talk)

Ferment?
Going simple, how about something like a "Ferment Release" for Earth/Lightning/Yang? I've looked over many chemical processes, and fermentation (発酵) seems to be one of few that haven't been covered fully (After all, Purificaton did cover a large deal of chemical processes). This fermenting nature would give chakra the properties of organisms such as yeast, allowing the user to use the chakra to cause fermentation in targeted organic objects in order to convert substances for their own purposes. Earth would be the organic substance being affected by the nature, Lightning would be for the energy conversion (and fermentation involves the oxidation of organic substances, dealing with electron transfer), and Yang would be used to bring this chakra to life, the same way how it was used to give Miasma and Bacteria life. --GoDai (talk) 06:38, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

When I think of Ferment I think of liquids, so maybe Water + Lightning + Yang which turns or gives a target yeast like proprieties. Water is a catalyst like in alcohol fermentation, lightning is the energy and yang is the life and expansion quality that we associate with yeast like effects.Umishiru (talk) 02:48, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm That's very viable too. If we were to go with Water/Lightning/Yang, I don't think it would be just limited to fermentation, since fermentation is limited to organic compounds, but rather a chakra that can act as a powerful catalyst in general. It could also include fermentation, since enzymes are biological catalysts. --GoDai (talk) 01:48, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Burst Release
Earth + Lightning + Yang = Burst Release. Its basically like fireworks. Lightning passes its energy to Earth creating a energized substance maybe powdery in looks that spreads when it explodes out do to Yang's Expansion Quality. Sounds like Explosion release but explosion release only exists in energy form and needs a kinjutsu to exist in physical substances other than the users body.Umishiru (talk) 00:26, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I also thought of a fireworks-related nature a long while ago, but I didn't really see a spot for it so I didn't suggest it, although the way Omnibender described it, I see sparks and explosions in the Flint Release already. --GoDai (talk) 01:06, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Void Release.
I know you don't wanna go there but I was looking up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuji_(philosophy). Its basically without Yin/Yang, nothingness, non-existence. I was thinking the stronger counter-part of Yin-Yang is Void Release. Yin and Yang are so in harmony and perfect that they cancel each other out. Without form or life, an object becomes nothing.Umishiru (talk) 17:48, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Different releases
Hi, I think some releases just don't make sense :p

So I'm suggesting some new ones!

Water + Earth + Fire = Clay Release.

Clay Release would be sticky earth that can be hardened or softened by the user at will.

Why? Petroleum seems... random... to say the least :p

Water + Earth + Wind = Mud release.

Mud Release would basicly be liqued earth.

Earth + Fire + Lightning = Rubber Release.

I guess rubber has already been used in the manga, but meh.

By the way, where is the evidence that Yin and Yang releases can be mixed with the 5 basic ones? Because none of your Yin/Yang releases make sense xd

Antonino200 (talk) 23:10, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

Clay Release makes no sense because Earth Release can already affect things to make them hard or soft, and Deidara's clay techniques are done with Earth Release. If you read the explanation for petroleum, it's not random at all, it has logical ties to all components. Regular Earth Release already manipulates mud as well, mud has no connection with wind either. Like you said, Lava Release already uses rubber, so no. Manga said that advanced natures are made by mixing basic natures, which Yin and Yang are, since people don't require kekkei genkai to use them. So in theory, they can be mixed. The revelation of Yin and Yang as actual natures is something that, to me, explained how Blaze Release was possible. Again, if you read the explanations, they make sense. I use traits of Yin and Yang that tie to both their traditional, actual meaning, and the concepts they're tied to in the manga. I see much more sense in any of my Yin and Yang combos than I saw in any of your suggestions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Friction- or static-based nature
I'm back, I was away because of some important exams. Meanwhile, I was thinking about Earth/Lightning/Yang, and I thought maybe it could be related to friction. Friction is caused by the interaction of electromagnetic forces between charged particles which compose the surfaces in contact. When we say friction, we usually refer to dry friction, which is the friction that resists the motion of two solids in contact. Friction changes kinetic energy into heat, and can also give objects different charges (like when glass and amber is rubbed together). Earth would be the solids whose surfaces are in contact, and Lightning would be the electromagnetic forces which are the fundamental cause of friction. I guess the physical aspect of Yang could give a symbolic side to the conversion of the kinetic energy into heat and the transfer of electrons. --GoDai (talk) 05:13, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see the connection of all three components, but what would this Release do exactly? I can think some sort of energy conversion and wearing things down due to the friction, weakening them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:51, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

If it's just friction in general, I imagine something like infusing the air with the friction-chakra as a force to resist mechanical motion, and as you said, wearing targets down the more they struggle to move. In terms of visual effect, someone trying to walk through this friction area would feel as if the air was acting as sandpaper on their skin. I also think this could work in reverse; in One Piece, the Sube Sube no Mi (often translated as the "Slip Slip Fruit") makes the friction of the user's skin near zero (referencing the databook), so they become immune to most forms of weaponry, with bullets, blades, and physical attacks simply slipping off the body. In general, I liked this idea because it was unlike all the previous ideas which focused a great deal on the likes of magnets, batteries, and static charges. I also think the static charge idea is viable with Friction Release; for example, different materials in contact could generate static electricity, and the user could use the attractive and repulsive forces to their advantage. Also, I think the user could build up energy from the friction and discharge it, like a war-oriented version of walking across a carpet. The possibilities are generally wide in scope. --GoDai (talk) 01:40, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

Lightning+Yin+Water
A Demon(悪魔 Akuma) Nature, yielding Demon Release (鬼遁, Oniton). My reasoning behind this are as follows 1. Some demons, such as the kappa, lived in water, signifying the water nature. 2. Demons often have dark, evil qualities, thus signifying the Yin Nature 3. Yin+Lightning=Dark by you logic, and demons often have DARKqualities, thus signifying the lightning nature. --64.30.64.229 (talk) 21:05, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * Makes no sense to me, the ties to each component are non-existent. I listed Dark as Yin Lightning because Yin would pass its properties, changing lightning. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:49, February 1, 2012 (UTC)