Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-33030270-20170909171417/@comment-33308438-20171011140720

LegionZero wrote: None of the akatsuki are Minato speed....

Kakashi talking about Narutos stamina has what to do with Genjutsu exactly? Because Jiraiya specifically stated chakra control breaks genjutsu. Disrupting the network involves slowing down, speeding up, or stopping the flow. Stopping the flow breaks the genjutsu. Read the chapter dude.

Shape and nature transformation does not equate to perfecr chakra control. When Naruto was struggling against Itachis genjutsu. Naruto didnt even learn nature transformation until almost 100 chapters later. Stop attributing a characters feat to their younger selves.

Orochimaru was Hiruzens first choice, mostly because he was Hiruzens favorite. That doesnt mean that that he is as fast or faster than Minato. You are attributing this ability to Orochimaru even though it was not stated or shown. Jiraiya was his second choice but Jiraiya had imoerfect Sage Mode while Minato had a perfect one. They were chosen more likely due to having more experience as opposed to their stats. Until you have a chapter with a quote or speed feat that put Orochimaru over Minato in speed, then its not true. Also when u say after images, are you talking about shadow clones? Because they have nothing to do with speed.

What are you not under standing about IF ENMA IS SEPARATED FROM HIRUZEN?!? IF THEY ARE SEPARATED, then Enma does not matter necause Minatos toads will keep Hiruzen and Enma separated. In this scenario, Hiruzen has to fight without Enma.

What chapter does Hiruzen run as fast as FTG? Because it wasnt in Kuchinas flashback.... Kakashi was confident naruto could master it, so he had that chakra control back then. Genjutsu is broken by applying more power, which is possible with more stamina. Jiraiya said " if you use more power to break the genjutsu, it will be cancelled" nothing about chakra control. And if naruto could master the rasengan he has more than enough chakra control to break genjutsu according to your logic since tsunade was shocked and even said he cannot master it in a week. I wasnt even talking about nature transformation, but the mastery of rasenshuriken which requires one of the most polished chakra control.

Hidan and kakuzu were beating up kakashi so its safe to say, they can keep up with minato's speed. Kakashi was keeping up with minato in base and the rule of the bell mission is "try to cone at me with the intent to kill" which is exactly what kakashi was doing, preparing chidori, if minato was capable of dodging that , he wouldnt have used ftg before he even prepared the jutsu.

Hiruzen can catch enma and use it to form a cage or he could spar in taijutsu as databook says he's skilled with it. And his hand speed will easily react to minato's ftg and beat him, even orochimaru was surprised when enma came partially out of the staff. Which means it'll easily catch minato and to remind you this is prime hiruzen. So his reflexes and speed will be equal to minato.

And I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, even if minato breaks it , he wouldnt be able to react to hiruzen's enma beating him up. And that'll render him defeated.

And I was talking about war arc hiruzen, he ran at full speed when tobirama told him to get away and minato used hiraishin, but hiruzen and minato reached the destination at the same time.