Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-35448581-20160502192848/@comment-734582-20160505124840

GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: Yes a Sage can sense all around him, yet he can see it, that’s a ‘’power of the eye’’ a dojutsu, a jutsu molded in the eye. Kurenai can cast genjutsu, but she doesn’t use her eyes to do so, she uses hand seals, that’s why it isn't Sharingan. They aren't seeing all around him. Sage mode allows the user to sense the flow of nature energy and any disturbances in that. Sage eyes are not a technique in itself, it's merely a byproduct.

Sharingan allows the user to analyze jutsu with their eyes, cast genjutsu with their eyes, see chakra with their eyes. It's a dojutsu because it has techniques in the eye, which is what Dojutsu means.

Byakugan allows 360 vision plus the ability to see Tenketsu, so it's a technique in the eye.

Toneri had Tenseigan, which he got from a Byakugan, so it's reasonable that he has the Byakugan's vision, so it's a dojutsu.

Rinnegan is a mixed bag, as it clearly allows visual techniques (shared vision) but also acts purely as a manifestation of power (Asura, Human, Animal, Preta and Naraka as well as Gedo path show powers manifested through the body).

Tenseigan is similar to rinnegan, and it too shows visual techniques as well as physical manifestations. So it's very much a dojutsu.

Rinnegan has Animal path which summons stuff, except that regular people can summon stuff too. Ashura allows physical enhancements, but regular people can do the same. Why would Tenseigan suddenly not be a Dojutsu on the same ground?

It's because that, as you say, similar goals can be achieved through different methods, that I say that tenseigan is not a dojutsu per se, as it (as I see it) is not replacing hand seals. GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: Again as you say: The difference is that some things have been granted a specific name by the autor while others do not get such mention, even if it does not make sense or even contradicts things he himself somehow established. Numerous people have unexplained eyes (kurenai's somehow being red) but they're not called anything. So it can also be seen as reason to believe those are not special, but named eyes are.

GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: Well yeah, we can't say Rinnegan and Sharingan actually came from Byakugan. But the again:

Ootsutsuki’s Byakugan+shinju fruit chakra = Rinnegan, which later mutated into sharingan. I have no idea where you are getting this from. It's not clear if the Otsutsuki had Byakugan at all before the Shinju. Even so, Kaguya had Rinne Sharingan as a third eye, and it's that eye that turned into Hagoromo's Rinnegan. Byakugan has nothing to do with it. It makes no sense either, as Hagoromo shows nothing that suggests he has Byakugan-related powers. The Rinnegan has Sharingan powers, and the Sharingan comes from the Rinne Sharingan, not the Byakugan.

GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: If it were just as you say, asura would have been born with a sharingan too Nope. Hagoromo got Kaguya's Sharingan dojutsu and half her Six Paths power. The other half went to Hamura. However with Ashura and Indra there was an imbalance in power, with Indra receiving the Sharingan Kekkei Genkai and Ashura no such KKG.

GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: all clans descending from Kaguya and the Ootsutsukis (Senju, Uzumaki, Uchiha,Hyūga, and Kaguya clans) would have the same abilities. Chakra seen to change/mutate between generations. Not even all members of a clan/species manifest their abilities the same way. Hagoromo and Momoshiki both had the rinnegan, yet its appearance and placement were quite different. It's the exact opposite. Chakra wants to spread as evenly as possible, but certain abilities want to stick together. The Uchiha have special eyes, the Uzumaki special sealing chains, the Senju a special body, Juugo's clan special sage abilities, the moon otsutsuki special eyes, etc. Chakra has been diluting for ages now, staying the same but manifesting as ever weaker powers.

Hagoromo and Momoshiki can't be compared, as Momoshiki and Kinshiki did not get their power from the Ninja World's tree.

GurīnEnGan no Seiin wrote: So toneri had all that power all along? He got it by combining Ootsutsukis and Hyūga chakra? Sort of. Hagoromo's power was unevenly split between his sons, but who says the same happened with Hamura? It seems -assuming for simplicity's sake he had two- both sons had Byakugan. However, it seems that the future Hyuga had different Byakugan powers than the Otsutsuki. It seems the Otsutsuki Byakugan grants sage-like power, continuously gathering Nature Energy and allowing control over it. Unlike the Uchiha/Senju were power was split between Eye and Body, here the power was split between eyes. So by getting a Hyuga Byakugan and the powers it gives, and his body granting it his chakra (similar to EMS) he recreated the two strands of dojutsu to create Byakugan.

Notice that the Otsutsuki Byakugan don't need anything special to gather Nature Energy: they just do. It also makes sense: The Otsutsuki sealed their Byakugan because when they have too much nature energy, they turn to stone. They did it because they had no choice.

Also, notice that Elder Hamura didn't show Tenseigan but Byakugan. it seems to be he simply sealed it's power (rather than the physical eye) into a stone seal, becoming the Energy Vessel. Considering this, it's possible that once Hinata destroyed the Energy Vessel, the byakugan sealed inside it sought another Tenseigan, and when Toneri was defeated he could no longer prevent this. Even after Hanabi's Byakugan is taken, Toneri summons the Energy vessel's remains and still uses the Tenseigan's abilities including absorbing Naruto's chakra from a distance (which he previously did by throwing the green orb). He also mentions he'll show Hamura's power, suggesting that these Byakugan simply contain the Tenseigan's remaining power.

It all suggests that the Tenseigan is similar to the Rinnegan, but since it has control over nature energy (suggested by the energy vessel stuff as well as animating a statue (which Kabuto could do) and the fact that he has sage-mode-like markings. It has shown the power to drain chakra from a distance so surely it could seal away Toneri's tenseigan. And when encased in Byakugan we hear numerous voices calling out to destroy the earth suggesting that these Byakugan still retain some of their owner's mind.