Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-36632842-20180818184904/@comment-31099706-20180917140932

LoneNinja wrote: 1) Base Sakon was shown to be able to keep up with Base Sasuke just fine in the Manga when the Sound Ninja 4 went to retrieve him. So his "speed" isn't a factor since they were fighting it out and Sasuke's speed was never an issue. So that's obviously not a factor against Kiba who went against both Ukon and Sakon in their CM2 Senjutsu enhanced forms and was keeping up with them. Kiba > Sasuke in speed.

2) Kiba still went heads with CM2 Ukon and Sakon and held his own. Sasuke in his brief encounter with just one, tried his hardest and couldn't deal any damage. He caught him off guard twice but even with his Lion's Barrage, it ended with him dangling from his ankle and then being slammed in the ground by the guy. He then proceeded to call him weak. Sasuke then utilized the Curse Mark 1 and rushed him just to be swatted down by his CM 1 form. Against a CM2 Ukon and Sakon? In his base form, he wouldn't even last a second with that showing.

Kiba takes this with mid difficulty. "Feats > Statements". The feats show Kiba wins. Yep, the guy who was hospitalized and was just fresh from a fight before is gonna be in his best condition. Sasuke onviously didn't use his full speed, nor did he use his Sharingan nor any ninjutsu, it was fight between four ninjas cornering one down who wasn't in his best of conditions. It's like saying Zaku and the rest could handle Lee's speed at the Forest because Lee was holding back.

Kiba survived against Sakon who both underestimated Kiba and was fresh from a battle. And thank you for stating "Feats>statements" that kind of goes against Kiba more than you can think. And I hope this is the end of this ABC Logic. Kiba surviving against Sakon counts as a win because Sasuke in his handicapped condition couldn't fare against four powerful ninjas at once? Come on.

And if you're using ABC logic like this, then how about this, Sasuke beatened up a base Gaara and held good against a Shukaku Gaara. Base Gaara held himself against Kimimaru, who is stronger than all four of the Sound four, how is that for fun? ABC logic can be turned around too.

@Combat. If you actually paid attention to what I said, then you will know that I was mentioning about the moment Sasume gains the Sharingan. Of course Haku could have killed Sasuke at the beginning with the mirrors, but that wasn't the point. I'm not talking about the overall fight, but the point in it, where Sasuke gained the upperhand, after his Sharingan awakened and Naruto fell down. That was the point where Haku mentioned that he can't win against Sasuke, as he is losing his speed, and he can't aim at critical spots and eventually needed a bait to win against Sasuke. That was the point. Now I don't remember why we were talking about Haku and Sasuke for all this long. But I hope this stops here. You don't think this will help you in your opinion, do you?

I cited Obito using one step to dodge Kiba. And as Obito mentioned to Gai, his amazing reacting ability is thanks to his Sharingan, and do you know who has the Sharingan in this debate?

Different ninja use different tools in different applications. Smoke bombs are tools of every common ninja, and if you cite other ninjas using smoke bombs in a creative way for Kiba's side, then I guess I can say Sasuke uses smoke bombs or something with high sense of smell to make Kiba lose his focus.

the smoke won't stay forever, if I remember right, Kiba's smoke stays for a couple of seconds, enough to help him escape and hide himself. But what would Sasuke do if Kiba somehow makes his smoke stay as long he wishes? Use his fire ball jutsu which covers a large area. the Smoke area of Kiba's bombs are about close to the same size as Sasuke's fire ball jutsu, it's gonna be hard to dodge such wide attacks in a small area like that. Kiba gets burned or shot with Shurikens or Kunai's with Explosive tags.

If going for CQC, Sasuke will easily handle Kiba before he can move. He was able to dodge each of Gaara's sand attack up close, and he was able to go dodge Gaara's Shukuku enhanced version. This Sasuke has the advantage in CQC, with Lee's moves, and his speed and the Sharingan, Sasuke will launch a Lion's barrage before Kiba can even jump to spin. Kiba really does not have the advantage in CQC even however you falsely state it to.

In the smoke, The Sharingan will still help him to react better than a normal eye in smoke, as seen with Izuna dodging Tobirama's Kunais in the smoke. And no, he will see through the decoys and traps, the Sharingan is a tool for analysing the surroundings, and Sasuke isn't dumb enough to fall for a decoy, he's clever in seeing through tricks, as he made a plan to see through a imposter in the forest of Death twice. He won't be expecting things to be easy, as he won't fall the same way Sakon did.

You ignoring Orochimaru being tricked of a trap infront of his own eyes isn't gonna change anything. Not everyone uses tricks in the same way, situations depend on different traps over different opponents with different places. Kiba using a couple of tricks that can easily be seen through won't help him. While Sasuke used only traps based on the situation, he trapped Orochimaru, because no smoke bombs and saliva gonna help him there, he tricked Zaku with hiding shurikens inside his fire release jutsu(and that was when he crazy in mind with CM), he saw through Naruto's trick without a word, he shown to trick people with substitution jutsu as decoys. Unlike the only two fights Kiba had, Sasuke's had dozens of battles, in which his opponents all vary differently, with different powers and in different situations. The anime has shown him to use couple of traps against other characters and if you're going over Shippuden, and talking about battles that were involved with opponents stronger than him and won't go down with one shot then I like to remind you that he still used tricks even at present there. And I've been using Sasuke feats all these time, while you proposed feats done by other characters stating Kiba can do it. And if that's not enough, you falsely stated Kiba to being faster than Gaara's sand without even a hint of it, and goes on to ask me to counter something that never existed in the first place, then I have only one thing to you friend, go read the manga from the first chapter to the last, like seriously.

Just mentioning that a weakened exhausted prior to Rasengan Naruto was able to handle himself against Kiba. He was able to go side to side in a small battle area, what was special to that? Everyone saw him moving, it was Naruto's lack of speed and current stamina that made him be beatened up by Kiba. No one mentioned about Kiba's speed in that battle, because it wasn't anything that much. Sakon didn't show any kind of speed feat, while Sasuke showed level of speed equal to Lee. You do the math.

So what do we end up with? Sasuke stomps Kiba.