Talk:Lightning Release

Is it just rikaichan, or does 雷 mean thunder, not lightning? ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 25, 2008 @ 09:33 (UTC)
 * means both lightning and thunder. It refers to the entire phenomenon, not just the light or the sound it produces. the reason it's often mistakenly translated as only 'thunder' is because it comes from the phrase, meaning 'the roaring of the gods'. --ShounenSuki 12:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
 * ^_^ Oooohhh yay... The difference between Thunder and Lightning in English and lack of a combined word always annoyed me a bit. Well, Thunder Release redirects here now. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 25, 2008 @ 21:39 (UTC)

Tsunade
I know it's been argued before, but even though Ranshinshou isn't classified as a Raiton in the databook, she still needs to convert her chakra into electricity. The page for Raiton says that, when Lightning is your element, you perform those techniques by converting your chakra into electricity. Again, even though Ranshinshou isn't classified as a Raiton, doesn't the manner in which Tsunade performs it imply that she's Lightning-oriented? 168.221.159.6 (talk) 13:57, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you might be on to something. I suppose it's possible that Ranshinshou's just an offensive medical jutsu, but if anyone wants to use it, their chakra should naturally be Lightning natured. I myself have added Lightning to Tsunade's page, but it's been discarded. I wonder if anyone will take what you've said as real proof. Jules R. J. Blake (talk) 21:17, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't forget about this. Jacce | Talk 13:04, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, but all we concluded there was that it wasn't a Raiton. It doesn't have to be, but the fact that Tsunade can change her chakra into electricity, whether the technique she's performing is Raiton or not... Jules R. J. Blake (talk) 14:56, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Emblem Color
Purple was better.

Lightning is yellow, or blue, which is already taken for Water Release. Why should it be purple? -Enoki911 (talk) 06:59, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Effect
Just to check before putting it up, but would you say that it is mostly a paralyzing jutsu? I say this from when Sasuke used Chidori on Killer Bee/Suigutsu and Chidori Current against Sai and Naruto. There is also Kakashi and his lightening clone. -Thomas Finlayson (talk) 7:10, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

How it is strong against Earth jutsu
I admit that this may be too much speculation, or too much interest in Naruto, but I would like to find out how exactly lightning jutsu effects earth jutsu; water-fire is easy to understand, and we can grasp wind-fire, but lightning is still an unknown. I contacted a science teacher about lightning in regards to rocks and dirt (the founation of earth jutsu) since he was an Earth Science expert, and I got (edited down): Lightning can travel through rock short distances. When lightning hits dirt and sand it will fuse the sand grains together to make fulgurite. The ground contains so many electrons, that energy is transferred very quickly into the rock when it is struck and little change in the rock itself occurs since rock is a poor conductor, especially when dry so if it travels any distance in rock it will heat it up. Google fulgurite
 * Any idea how we can use this? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 10:21, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really doubt Kishimoto-sensei actually thought this deeply about this... He once said in an interview that physics and such weren't his best subjects. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:59, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we just assume then he meant that the electricity will transfer energy through the earth? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 10:37, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * We should just assume that he took the Japanese five elements and their strength relations and made it into a pretty circle. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:31, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 11:38, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, go to [talk: Earth Release] --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 6:13, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Earth jutsu commonly utilizes the ground as a resource, true. However, many think Lightning should be weak to Earth because it grounds it. The important thing they forget is that Lightning jutsu maintains control over the electricity, so it cannot be grounded unless the Lightning user releases control. The grounding effect rather gives an advantage to the Lightning user, as he can now easily cannel focused Lightning chakra through the Earth, either hardening mud or shattering rock. (I was asked to say this, why not) --GoDai (talk) 04:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I also added how since a lightning jutsu user prevents the electricity from dissipating, this allows it to continue. Plus, further information from a teacher supports your idea. The dirt/mud would be hardened/petrified, and as for the rock usually nothing happens outside of heating it up…but that is because the energy is transferred too quickly; lightning jutsu has proven to be slower so it has more time to heat up the rock and perhaps destroy it (expansion perhaps)? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 1:47, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you see Kakashi's battle with the Deva Path it is clear that the forked energy that Lightning jutsu produce just causes the rock to shatter. I recall the chakra paper crumpling up, due to the chakra being jagged, crooked, not fluid, and forked. --GoDai (talk) 06:31, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sudden expansion due to heat would probably cause it to shatter. I agree with the paper part, but Kakashi wise are you referring to this or this? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 10:18, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Second one. The Lightning shattered his own Earth technique. --GoDai (talk) 21:55, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm...some may argue that the whole shape change thingy may be part of that, but sudden expansion can also be attributed. Regardless, I am sold. 24 hours and then we post? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 21:58, May 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not so sure, as nothing has been confirmed in the manga. --GoDai (talk) 22:08, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Granted they will accuse this of being only speculation, but it is physics combined with observations of the manga, but we will give them some time. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:14, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * The physics in this wasn't stated directly. This isn't Iron Sand World Order, in which we had a clear reference from the databook with flawed physics. Other than Kisame's comment on high frequency vibration, I don't think the actual qualities of lightning chakra were ever elaborated on. Assuming that two same level techniques were put against each other, we know the lightning one would beat the earth one because of the advantage. How the advantage works however, is beyond me. We've seen franchises putting Earth as stronger than Lightning, such as Pokémon, via "earth doesn't conduct electricity", and we have Naruto, in which Earth is weaker. I think that it goes something like the "energy" of the Lightning overpowering the Earth, because of its "hard, unwavering" quality, so to speak. It's not really an explanation through physics, more of a symbolical one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:27, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

First, sorry to move your thing but as I said I want to keep the top part clear. As for the advantage, that is what we are trying to explain. Essentialy lightning jutsu moves slower than real electricity due to the control the user has over it (Fact). Electricity is usually unable to do damage since it so fast and the electrons are 'absorbed' into the ground (Fact).

Hypothesis: Because the lightning jutsu goes slower it heats up and ruins the earth jutsu if not destroy it outright. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 00:16, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Any contradictions? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:22, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

Kirin
I think that this should be listed as a normal lightning jutsu, while still an exception in several ways, despite the fact that it uses real lightning. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:29, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is listed as a normal jutsu. But it is literally normal lightning guided by the user. It is not released from the users body. Unless I'm reading your addition wrong, Kirin simply does not work with what you added.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:31, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I was trying to clarify was that while 99.99% of lightning jutsu goes relatively slow, there is one that actually goes as fast as lightning jutsu (they can find out when they go to the page why that is). Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:38, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then it should be reworded to say that. Because the way its worded now it says that "When a person uses a lightning jutsu form their body it moves slow. Except for Kirin because that uses normal lightning not from their bodies"--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:41, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

How is this?: 'When the jutsu is released from their bodies, and thus not requiring physical contact, it does not move as fast as true lightning; with one exception. Instead, due to the control the user has to exert over it, it moves far slower, which can give opponents time to react still.'
 * No that still says the user releases Kirin through their body. When they don't.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:45, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see the problem now. Okay how about: 'When the jutsu is released from their bodies, and thus not requiring physical contact, it does not move as fast as true lightning. Instead, due to the control the user has to exert over it, it moves far slower, which can give opponents time to react still. Only one jutsu has been shown to move as fast as lightning; although it was not released from the body.'


 * Now I question why Kirin even has to be refernced, but whatever. It would work better if speed wasn't even mentioned.
 * This would work: Currently Kirin is the only Lightning Release that uses natural lightning as an attack.
 * Or some such.--TheUltimate3 (talk)

...so am I allowed to put that line in?
 * And yes the speed matters, because when you generally hear 'lightning,'the connotation is 'extremely fast,' heck it is a metaphor even! The clarification is necessary. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 02:00, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Changes
Sorry, but what were the last changes about? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:50, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Paper resemblance
Here we have the whole paper represent your elemental jutsu thing. Fire, water, and wind (the cutting part of it) are fairly clear for interpretation on what they can do, but what about the other two? What can be inferred from the crumpling paper it is to represent lightning jutsu since we have not seen anything like that yet (and I would think electricity would make paper catch on fire, though I have no real experience with that)?
 * And yes I know that I may be overthinking this, but I feel since we got earth jutsu done we should finish this. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:22, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

For the crumpling effect, I think that the lightning chakra would "charge" the paper with electricity, the crumpling happening due to positive and/or negative charge interactions within the paper and with the atmosphere. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:13, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I sort of getting what you are saying, but would it actually crumple?

If different parts of the paper had different charges, they would attract each other, making dents and bending the paper. Of course the charge would need to strong enough to cause such attraction, but since Kakashi mentioned the paper reacts to even the minimal amount of chakra, I don't think this would be a problem. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:54, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * But why would different parts of the paper have a different charge? Charges are supposed to go toward's two opposite poles (and yes I know the physics of magnets is a little stretched in this series already), and if the two poles were attracted, would it really be like that? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:16, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because crumpled paper resembles lightning. --ShounenSuki (talk 01:27, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, as a Japanese cultural thing? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 03:11, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, as a culture-surpassing visual thing. Kishimoto-sensei is not, in any way, a physicist. In fact, he has stated he was actually quite bad at physics. Trying to connect real-life physics to his works is a bad idea, at best. Especially when the answer can be as simple as: it visibly resembles lightning. --ShounenSuki (talk 04:44, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:35, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

'allowing for piercing damage and fast movement'
Was this from a databook? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 01:36, July 6, 2010 (UTC)