Board Thread:Wiki Discussions and Support/@comment-26010916-20150211152912/@comment-26010916-20150213205107

Naruto uzu6254 wrote: I don't get it there is no proof that Naruto just used Hagoromo's power and was able to produce youton Rasenshuriken not to mention he was able to produce all the Bijuu Rasenshuriken and that is enough proof for him to have tailed beast chakra, he was definitely able to use Tailed Beasts chakra for Rasenshuriken I mean you've seen it right? Naruto asks Son Goku to lend him chakra, there are many instances where the tailed beasts help him in different situations. If it was just Hagoromo power then why didn't Sasuke use any tailed beast chakra powers? Sasuke got eyes and Naruto got Hagormo's body you said that right? but it wasn't stated anywhere not in databook, but we can assume it and it is correct since it was his Rinnegan manifested in Sasuke's eye and so Hagoromo divided his chakra into two halves and gave it to Naruto and Sasuke, he didn't repeat the mistake he did with his sons. So I'm saying what is the proof that Tailed Beasts are not involved in this mode do you have any? All the Tailed Beasts were shown in panels and they are fractions of Tailed Beast chakra which manifested as conscious being in Naruto's mind. Unless you are saying using tailed beasts power does not count in this mode it can be common to all of Naruto's modes.

Hagoromo unlocked Naruto's potential to use tailed beasts chakra or chakra of any nature in Naruto that is what I call a gift. I mean how can anyone ignore all the tailed beasts power he used. You don't have to be spoon fed with just databook you know you have to understand manga also, It is most likely possible that databook missed this information just like with Danzo's summon and lot of other things.

Another proof is the Rinnegan marking and 9 magatama marking on back of Naruto's cloak, only the cloak lightens up, his skin does not glow. This is similar to Sage Hagoromo and Obito and Madara's cloak after they became Jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails. You have to understand the 9 bijuu's chakra mixed together gives Ten-Tails. Hence the marking on back of Naruto and I'm not talking about magatama markings around the neck and collar since they are found in every mode of Naruto even in RSM.

Again you are taking Kurama's cloak too seriously, as I have said Kurama has larger influence on the cloak since Naruto and Kurama can mix the chakra to form the cloak of KCM/RM/RSM, which does not mean other tailed beasts are not accounted for. No Tailed Beast have shown the characteristic cloak. And he does have them inside so that is why the tailed beasts emerged from ground after he met Hagoromo and later they helped him undo the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Hagoromo+Kurama=Six Paths Sage Mode is not necessarily true and just because it is absent or someone did not decipher the meaning correctly doesn't mean it is true. We have seen the Tailed Beasts in manga helping him, now your explanation that Tailed Beasts were not in him and he communicated them which were located somewhere contradicts the statement of Hagoromo explanation of undoing Infinite Tsukuyomi i.e., the person with all 9 Bijuu + person with Rinnegan should form a Rat Hand Seal to undo Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Bear in mind that this mode's cloak is not everything, you can see the ( + ) marking in his eye without pigment and he was in that mode, he was in Six Paths Sage Made (RSM) and that is why he was able to kick Truth-Seeking Ball and produce Lava Release RasenShuriken.

GodlyHades wrote: Sadly, that is as much as proof as me saying Naruto’s RSM is Hagoromo’s power + Kyuubi chakra: I. No other tailed beasts are implied to have given Naruto their power during RM’s activation/RSM’s activation II. Naruto’s RSM activation had the same Kanji as KCM/BM III. Naruto used the tailed beasts power individually, instead of combining them fruitlessly like JJ Jin’s IV. Naruto’s RSM form behaves the same way as Kurama’s chakra.

I. Yes they are implied, first the Tailed Beasts assembled in circle before Hagoromo, next all the tailed Beasts helped him as shown in panels. You are confused because RM cloak looks similar in appearance to RSM. That is why you are saying Kurama's chakra involved and no other Jinchuriki's chakra is involved, I'm saying it is not involved in cloak yes but it is involved in his techniques.

II. Again you are referring to Kurama because you have seen the common thing that is Kyuubi mode and RSM looks same due to Kurama's chakra the sound is definitely for the flame Kanji and also when Naruto was in Kyuubi mode but it doesn not mean the Tailed Beasts are not there in this mode the Tailed Beasts are involved.

III.How do expect that would look. You mean like Avatar series Aang with 5 elements. When he fought Kaguya he made shadow clones not normal clones and he performed the technique simultaneously with Tailed Beasts' chakra that is, Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken.

IV. The same thing again and again, It is because he is the Jinchuuriki of Kurama. GodlyHades wrote: Naruto without the cloak is PURE Hagoromo’s chakra which connected him to the TAILED BEASTS. Unless you are saying Hagoromo’s pure senjutsu is only activated with Psuedo-Juubi Jins (Jinchuriki who have all the tailed beasts).

Now let me blow your mind with one aspect: Hagoromo, who lost the Juubi, still had TruthSeekingBalls and the RSM Cloak. I thought that was a nice find. I'm not saying that, I'm saying The Tailed Beasts gave him chakra during his fight with Obito and he couldn't use it but when he met Hagoromo and because of Hagoromo's gift he was able to use the Tailed Beasts power so Hagoromo unlocked his capability to use those chakra and Naruto can quickly grasp chakra of any nature (also stated in databook). See simple enough. Of course Naruto was able to communicate with them since the tailed beasts chakra was in Naruto's body and they can also communicate through his mind.

Hagoromo is spirit and has taken physical form because of chakra now and he can take any form he wants, For Example: like How Obito looked like a child when he entered Kakashi's mind. So it's not out of realm of possibility that he has Truth Seeking Balls without Juubi inside. He had Truth Seeking Balls before I have seen Shakujo when he was fighting Ten-Tails so it is also possible that Truth Seeking ball do not depend on whether Juubi is inside or not. And about the markings I'm sure it is his design that is manifested in cloaks of Madara, Obito and Naruto. So the magatama markings and Rinnegan are not that much of a proof.

what I'm saying is that Tailed Beasts were present inside him they gathered around him when Hagoromo was giving his gift, and also the (+) mark without pigment is the most notable feature of this mode, NOT the cloak, because he was present in RSM mode when he kicked the Truth-Seeking Ball and used Son Goku's chakra for lava release Rasenshuriken to cut the tree form of Ten-Tails.

EDIT::IF I sounded ticked off, I apologize, sorry but this discussion isn't going anywhere, unless we have proof but you are right I guess. I feel I have seen all the tailed beasts lending him chakra and helping him but it is not mentioned in databook, is the problem of databook. That's how I viewed it so sorry again.

Because you are looking at it objectively. You seem to be confused on how Naruto's power works here completly. Naruto before meeting Hagoromo, could not talk to the Bijuu's inside of him, besides Kurama. Once he received the senjutsu from Hagoromo, he unlocked the power to talk to them and gain their power. You seem to confuse the difference between asking for power, and continuously using their power for an ultimatium (RSM). Why are you mentioning Sasuke here? The Rinnegan has nothing to do with RSM because it is an eye power (Indra) while Naruto obtained Senjutsu which is a body power (Ashura). That lies in the context of activating the power for itself, Naruto in base RM (The one that hit Madara's TBB) was able to perform no differently than RSM. He only activated it WITH kurama's chakra to enhance it's powers and gain KCM/BM properties. Sasuke, not being a Jinchuriki has no way of enhancing his powers (Rinnegan). Well, in fact he did use the TB during the Avatar battles, but that did not increase his RInnegan per-se.

Yes, I have proof none of the Tailed Beasts were used in the making of RM/RSM. Now, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again. So please, listen or "read". Hagoromo's power was what? Senjutsu. How did RSM form? Kurama. How do I know? Kanji that represents the flame, which involves KCM, BM, and etc involve that KANJI. It's as simple as that, what rocket science are you searching for here? Nothing. You are making things more complicated by using past panels of the Bijuu's being shown, which are meaningless in this situation as Hagoromo brought them to showcase Naruto being the Child of Prophecy. The only time Naruto cooperated with the other tailed beasts, was when he created the TruthSeekingBalls, and when he used their powers/chakra to enhance his own or to make Rasengan variants. Nothing less, nothing more.

Hagoromo unlocked Naruto's potential to use ALL tailed beasts chakra, yes. But where does it state he used their combine power to form RSM? Nothing. How did Naruto achieve that state? Hagoromo. Why would he need a combination of Hagoromo's power + ALL nine tailed beasts to form something of that caliber? Does that make sense to you? Senjutsu + Kurama bac when Naruto talked with Nagato, his eyes were the same as RM Naruto. You should really look at the past/future examples Kishi portrayed between Senjutsu/Hagoromo-Amplified Naruto

Exactly now you understand. Hagoromo's pure senjutsu gave Naruto that form, but as-well KCM/BM have the 9 magatama in their looks as-well but spread around his body. Even KCM has the 9 magatama around his neck, so that is nothing. Not at all, now I see where you are confused. JJ Madara's body was physical, it did not have the same properties as RSM. Look here: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111206783/4309558-4701129869-narut.png Look at how Naruto's form operates in which the flames move, again, Naruto's form took a physical-liking towards Hagoromo. BECAUSE IT IS HAGOROMO'S POWER.

No. I'm done with this "Kurama cloak too seriously". Kurama was the only shown influence on Naruto's power besides Hagoromo. Bring a scan that shows otherwise besides him asking for their power/or him talking to them. As he displayed the same feats once waking up after Hagoromo gave him his power.

Yes, Hagoromo + Kurama = Six Paths Sage Mode. Because Hagoromo himself gave him that POWER in Base RM, he only amplified it with Kurama, as I shown in the Kanji, and gave you a picture to look at it yourself. Assumption of course, but Kurama leads to an objective answer rather than using the other tailed beasts, as their chakra does not behave in the same way Kurama's does. Who said the Tailed Beasts were not in him? What I said was, Naruto can use their power one at a time, not consistently could he merge the powers or use them while using another. Hence why he made shadow clones that represented a Bijuu each, rather than being the JJ Jinchurii who could manifest the powers into a single unit.

Exactly Naruto woke up after receiving Hagoromo's power when that eye. That was Hagoromo's influence alone, and he later amplified it with Kurama which I've explained and showcased FACTS rather than saying "But he used the Tailed beast power too" >W>

I. No they are not implied. That was the Child of Prophecy nonsense, nothing less and nothing more. The only one that seems to be confused my dear, is you. Because the tailed beasts appeared before Hagoromo who is basically their "father", you believe he used their powers when nothing proves your claim. Other than Naruto using their chakra to form Rasengans, which he proved to do even before unlocking RSM. He did it as soon as he woke up, with Hagoromo's senjutsu. Moving on

II. I already proved my claim here, you words won't matter unless you bring facts of the Bijuu's operating the same as Kurama in terms of how the chara operates.

III. Yes the Tailed Beasts gave Naruto chara when he needed it, but nothing implies their chara was used continuously. Hence why NARUTO only used their power: "ONE-AT-A-TIME". He could not manfiest their powers all at once, this is why he uses clones to do such.

Hagoromo's gift gave Naruto the ability to talk/use the other tailed beasts within his body. Also you know there is no databook for RM Naruto, right? The one that woke up with "+" in his eyes. Now, let me open your eyes. When Naruto woke up what did he say "I feel like I can do anything." I wonder ..., he had the comprehension of all things already. It makes sense, totally, because the only thing that enhanced his powers was Kyuubi chakra. Which shouldn't matter much because he was already peforming on RSM level, just with lower reflexes. (He was dodging too, remember that)

What I'm saying, lastly, is that NARUTO gained the ability to call the other tailed beasts within his body. He could not do that before Hagoromo. Nothing implies they were used to make RSM, nothing. Kishimoto made it clear that Kurama was the influence in RSM, very clear. Lastly, just because he used their chakra to make rasengans, does not mean their powers are being continuously used to make something.

No problem man, it isn't going anywhere. I'm just trying to state, that since you CANNOT prove you are right with the manga, and I can prove more facts that he had used Kurama instead of the other tailed beasts, we should just come to the conclusion and use the databooks to define the technique. Rinnegan (eye Sasuke got) is not a technique itself. Nor did it come in the databooks. RSM did, and I talked to one of your translators on the wiki, go to my page. She/he said "Tailed beasts are not located in the RSM page of the databooks. So, there we go.