Talk:Ten-Tails

merge
Should we merge this and Gedo Statue articles or better to wait for the next chapter for more info?--Elveonora (talk) 17:03, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I vote for the latter. Too many unknowns to do that and even if, they're two separate things. The statue just seems like a body for the Ten-Tails to inhibit, not its actual body which was sealed into the moon.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:20, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Definitely wait. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:24, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think we should wait because theoretically the Ten-tails was firstly closed inside the Moon, which was a chibaku tensei of the Rikodou, so it is not sure if the Gedo Mazou is really some sort of container/invocating statue or not. Actually I'm not even sure on how will the ten-tails let Tobi go on with his plans and how will the statue affect on that. So I think they shouldn't be merged even knowing it, because maybe they're different things. Template loop detected: User:Khaliszt/sig subst

Doesn't make much sense, Gedo Statue + chakra of all beasts = Ten-Tails, thus it must be it's body.--Elveonora (talk) 17:26, July 18, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed. Gedo mazo is the ten tails body. Merge. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 17:28, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

^ Yes, because Madara said the Rinnegan enabled him to break the seal of the Sage that held the Ten-tails's body in it.

In Chapter 610 page 6, Madara refers to the Ten-Tails as "Mazo"... Does this not confirm that the Gedo Mazo is the Ten-Tails after all... Merger time?...--D!ABLO-32 (talk) 13:42, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Still against it. This chapter also gave the Ten-Tails a characteristic the statue was never mentioned to have, being like a force of nature, and as such being sensable by Sage Mode. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:13, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

its just words swaying madara says chakra of the mazo, obito says power of the juubi, meh. or btw elvenora its just all bijuu chakra, the juubi is the fusion of all tailed beasts not body, it can go from body to body chris brown yeahaaa.--Manga-anime90001 (talk) 10:47, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

New Image
Excuse me...Members of the Wiki, I am a Naruto fan that likes to be surfing in this Wiki, I just checked the new Naruto chapter that debuted today, where Kurama explained to everyone what he knew about the Ten-Tails, and while he was doing it, a new image of the Ten-Tails was seen, even if it was only its back, the Ten-Tails looked kinda different, with more spiky protusions on its back and on its tails. Shouldn't this be added to the Appearence part of his page?
 * Let's see Khaliszt (talk)

On your point if you are talking about the appearance in the manga no I don't think the image should change because as it says and shows that is its incomplete form, it only shows with 6-9 tomeo and that it has no legs, wait until the next chapter as it appears it's form is changing. --Elvesyou 16:36, December 8, 2012 (UTC)

Datara
I saw User:Cerez365 added son info on the other Jübi name, Datara. But I create this page to discuss it because referring to the source he used, it had only one leg, and we can see the Ten-Tails has more than one.. Anyway I just want to discuss why this would be like that, and NOT the fact that it was corrected to Datara, I think Cerez365 searched and took an extremely accurate source, even taking to consider the "blacksmithing" thing, it's been said that the Ten-tails created many things so it wouldn't be surprising! My guess is simply that a Beast with only one leg is much more unsurprising that such of a Beast like Ten Tails.. and Kishimoto knows that, lol Khaliszt (talk)

Tailed beasts
Should we go on treating them as "it"? Kurama wouldn't be happy about it.. Khaliszt (talk)
 * They've never been referred to with gender-specific pronouns in Japanese. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:05, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Really? Didn't know! sorry then, I didn't say anything then ^^ Khaliszt (talk)

classification
I don't think we should treat it as a Tailed Beasts, as they were created by So6p from it's chakra... it's more of a God/demon if anything. Even though it was sealed in the grandpa Rikudou, Tailed Beasts are just a mass of living chakra (physical and spiritual energy given soul/consciousness) while the Ten-Tail's chakra got ripped and it's body remained and it had to be sealed in the moon. Not to mention it's highly likely that Gedo Statue Guy is "it" thus that goes against the definition of a Tailed Beasts (being chakra monster) while the Ten-Tails was "the progenitor"--Elveonora (talk) 11:29, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Species (infobox)
Should we list it as a demon? -- The Goblin  17:36, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't classifying it/ the tailed beasts as demons inaccurate o.O?--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:48, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

I don't this we should even list it as a "tailed beast" because see above... I'm for a "deity" or something--Elveonora (talk) 22:41, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 510
This is the best scan I could find of chapter 510, and the eye seems to be missing the tomoes for me.

[]

Fox616 (talk) 16:46, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

"the progenitor"
Shouldn't we include such title in it's infobox?--Elveonora (talk) 00:02, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

'Progenitor' means an ancestor in the direct line. The tailed beasts, and the sage were implying this to naruto, kurama thought back on.

Question
Why is it that the silhouette of the Ten-Tails still being used? The only thing possibly wrong was the missing set of tomoe but in chapter 606, when Madara sent Obito into a genjutsu to explain his plan, when Madara depicted the Ten-Tails carving it was shown with only 2 rows of tomoe. Kishi could have changed the design, he has done so with other things. 75.238.191.98 (talk) 11:50, November 18, 2012 (UTC) Bump75.234.7.254 (talk) 01:35, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

You are indeed correct--Elveonora (talk) 02:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't jump to that answer. The mural in 606 only really shows the face and is frightfully inadequate being a mural of the creature with the sage in it. If anything the image at the end of 609 is better, but given we're likely to get an even better picture of it next week, I think the higher ups basically decided it was pointless to swap it out when a better image was right around the corner and chose wait it out. If for some reason we don't get a new picture, we'll likely swap it out for the full body shot in 609. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 03:24, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think the main point is that the eye appears to have been retconned.--Elveonora (talk) 03:28, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

True, but the question was, why are we still using the silhouette image. Simple answer, even if retconned a mural picture doesn't cut it and timing allows for us to get a better shot come the small hours of Wednesday morning. So all we need to resolve that matter is a little patience. But if it's that big a deal, trivia about the seeming retcon can be added to trivia, right? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 03:34, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

What retcon is everybody talking about regarding the eye? So it's missing a ring and three tomoe, it makes sense, considering that the Ten-Tails is technically incomplete. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:45, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

It has such eye in chapter 606 as well on the "wall" --Elveonora (talk) 20:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

As of the latest chapter, when i look at the Jūbi's eye it look like a mix of a Sharingan and Rinnegan--Tchad1 (talk) 13:24, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

We should update the image now. Any good ones from the latest chapter? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 18:30, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, there are none. Every picture of the Ten-Tails has just been awful.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:02, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Hell the best picture of it is when it roars, and that is still terrible.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:03, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wish it had remained a silhouette. That thing looks like Hooleer from Bleach with a cave in its mouth. Don't even get me started on the eye e_e --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:15, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not a fan of it's appearance myself, but given we can't dictate the will of Kishi, just gotta get on with it. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:19, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think the latest chapter gave us enough good images. Derigar (talk) 19:36, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

The reason why the tentails is "awfully displayed is becaused it is fully formed due to not having the 8 tails and nine tails sealed in the gedo mazou before hand. --Naruto6paths (talk) 19:53, November 20, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I never expected my one question to get this much response, but I want to add that I dont agree with the last post. I think the Ten-Tails appearance has been retconned, the two sihlouette used for this page don't exactly match how Kurama explained the Ten-Tails to Naruto. The two images were from times that Obito talked about the Ten-Tails, which were from a couple years ago. Kurama is more reliable to its appearance than Obito because Kurama is a part of the Ten-Tails. Also the two remaining biju regonise it as the Ten-Tails, I would expect them to say something if it looked different. Also the mural from chapter 606 depicted it with how it looks like now in chapter 610. I can expect that the higher ups and some others to not agree on this, but keep an open mind because we might have a new flashback in upcoming chapters depicting the complete Ten-Tails with all its details because Kishi has no reason to shade it all anymore.--67.142.164.25 (talk) 09:31, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

This is naruto 6 paths speaking, the 10 tails from what you saw there is an incomplete ten-tails. You can say its like an incomplete sharingan it hasn't been completed to its potential. --90.145.61.214 (talk) 14:10, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

But both the Eight-Tails and Nine-Tails both say that is the Ten-Tails. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't say anything if it changed as much as this wiki says. But it doesn't change the fact that its appearance has changed a significantly from the silhouette from a couple years ago.--67.142.164.20 (talk) 03:47, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it can take on more forms, but I'm sure the eye is a retcon, unless it's an error in chapter 606--Elveonora (talk) 04:01, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the eye being a retcon, also the spikey protrustions on its back.--67.142.164.20 (talk) 04:13, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Plant-like Appearance
Ok, it's pretty obvious the Ten-Tails has a plant-like look. It's body is covered by veins, its tails look like closed buds (and in its complete form those ones looks like foliage) and it has branch-like spiky protrusions on its back (well, the Mazou also have them, but you get the idea) I think it's worthy to add that to the Appearance section. Adept-eX (talk) 02:05, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

It's kinda plantish, it's skin is wooden--Elveonora (talk) 02:36, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's skin is what? I highly doubt that beast's body has the same construct as the statue. It looks like it has flesh. Also, I'd assume you're saying it looks plant-like simply because of the lines on its body, which I don't see.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 07:21, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Even those things connected to Obito and Madara are the same as from Hashi clone/Gedo statue so I guess it still has woodish/plantish texture--Elveonora (talk) 22:23, November 21, 2012 (UTC)

Didn't a ton of people guess the Gedo Mazo's statue was made of wood? I suggest holding off until it's texture is made clearly visible by the anime or a colored manga page. Skarrj (talk) 10:08, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the way the tail is unfurling at the end of the latest chapter, this theory may officially have weight. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 20:12, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Connectors
Ok... So Madara and Tobi both physically connect with the Ten-Tails, giving them the ability to control it. This ability to connect is mentioned on the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path's page, though not here. Skarrj (talk) 10:12, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because the aforementioned connection was with the living clone, not directly with the statue. We're all unclear what's going on there.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:31, November 22, 2012 (UTC)

Natural Energy
In the mangastream translation, naruto says its essentially a giant mass of natural energy. Can someone please translate to see if this is accurate? If so, it should be added to the abilities/trivia section. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 00:53, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Raws aren't available yet, at least not where I usually read them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:05, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Current Appearance
I think the Ten-Tails still has a chance of maturing based on Madara saying controlling it will get more difficult. I understand that as its getting stronger and has a chance to mature more. The thing took one step closer to looking like its sihlouette but then two steps back because it grew weird horn things on its head, its missing a arm and is emaciated. As I type its current appearance at the time is being used to showcase its real appearance and would like it to be changed back to its old appearance.--67.142.164.26 (talk) 07:29, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

It likely has multiple forms and no "true form" as it changes constantly. EDIT: it's said to be a force of nature, maybe it's some sort of adaptation--Elveonora (talk) 13:54, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

eye retcon again
The article says that the Ten-Tails has 6 tomoe instead of 9 cause it's incomplete, completely ignoring the fact that it also had such in Madara's "flashback dimension" and it's present even after it's transformation. It's apparent that Kishi changed his mind about this one--Elveonora (talk) 14:13, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

bump--Elveonora (talk) 23:36, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Still makes more sense, and in all of the actual flashback depictions, it had nine tomoe. The Ten-Tails in that genjutsu looked as faithful to the original as the murals of Matatabi and Gyūki look to them in the Island Turtle, which isn't that much, just enough for us to know what it was. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:04, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know either way, that's why I think the whole mention of "having 6 tomoe due to being incomplete" should be removed, and a trivia made instead with: "in it's initial appearance it had 9 tomoe words words words but since words words words it's portrayed with 6" so it's true both ways and everyone can make their own opinion of it--Elveonora (talk) 00:15, December 15, 2012 (UTC)

Maturity
In chapter 612 on the last page in the last panel, there's no word about maturity or perfect stage. It says something about suitable/good time (頃合い), but I don't know what the よう means. :/ Seelentau 愛議 19:16, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Take your pick. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:56, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, but I don't know which it could be, there are too many options :/ But I doubt the meaning of it would change the meaning of the whole sentence to something along maturity... Seelentau 愛議 21:37, December 12, 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete Mature form
FYI, the Ten-Tails' mature form is still incomplete. I bet that it will be fully complete on maybe the final arc.

--Pipeliz265 (talk) 21:13, December 12, 2012 (UTC) Pipeliz265

How is its eye being used to target speculation?
We specifically see it on 613, page 6, shift its eye around and began targeting, trying to hit HQ. How else were we supposed to interpret that scene other than the very obvious?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 09:13, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Unless it's blind, an eye can see lol--Elveonora (talk) 23:36, December 14, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 613 - The scale of the Juubi's latest Bijuudama
I think you're going to want to mention the scale of the bijuudamas this new Juubi form is producing.

If you look carefully at the double page where the first Bijuudama is fired you'll notice the five lakes from the first bijuudamas from the junchuuriki. Also you'll notice a long trail with the Juubi in it which I believe was created by the Hachibi and Kyuubi's combined bijuudama.

However the Bijuudama in the background is unreal in how large it is when you compare it to the old bijuudamas.

I'm not sure how you would but this'd be a really good thing to show in the abilities section of the Juubi's page as a comparison. 86.133.99.27 (talk) 22:46, December 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * The long trail was probably due to the immature form's Bijuudama beam...--JOA20 (talk) 15:51, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Mokuton/Wood Release
In chapter 614, it can be seen that Obito is using the Ten-Tails' body as a medium to throw the Wood Piercing Branches. I suggest we shouldn't put it like the beast can use Wood Release, but instead it can launch the techniques created by its controller.--JOA20 (talk) 15:54, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

It should be listed as a user of the technique but having hit as a pure user of wood release would be complicated to explain. --Naruto6paths (talk) 16:49, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ergo why it shouldn't be listed because it wasn't the one using it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:52, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think soo...usually chanelling chakra is done from a user to an object, not a living being, and its usually just the chakra, not the entire technique...and we know that tailed beasts can use/have nature transformations. Besides Obito could have only been directing the beast to attack. Son Goku/Lava Release for one? So i do believe that it could use the Wood Release...it would also partially explain the origin of it and how it went to Hashirama. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:54, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Do note; until Naruto took control of the Nine-Tails, he was never listed as using the Tailed Beast Ball as someone else (the Nine-Tails) was in control of his body. It would not be beyond the realm of reason to believe the same is happening now.
 * That being said, it is entirely possible the Ten-Tails could use Wood Release, but until the beast starts moving on it's own, I honestly can't say.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * This is making the issue more complicated thann it should be. The Jūbi is the one that used the technique, and as such it can use Wood release. Until we get further explanation, we should list every single fact. Derigar (talk) 17:22, December 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * And I repeat, when Naruto used the Tailed Beast Ball during the Invasion of Pain, he wasn't listed as a user because, he didn't actually use it. Same deal here to be honest but discuss away.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:24, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * The difference is: Naruto is a jinchuriki...the nine-tails is sealed inside him in a way that Naruto can channel the beast's powers. With the Ten-Tails this is not the case, it isn't sealed into anyone it used it on his own...i think the problem is that he used the same technique as Obito. Plus it's true, were complicating the issue too much. The Ten-Tails used the technique, he can use it, then list him. Anything other than that.... that will be speculation. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:30, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Anything other than that would be speculation? Alrighty, let's list Yahiko as a user of Shinra Tensei then. After all, his body performed the technique, even if he was just Nagato's little Rinnegan Puppet, right? The flaw in your argument here is that we're given a vague proposition. We have the Ten Tails launching a wood release technique. The problem is, its being controlled by Obito and only used a technique he has. Now I don't have a position on this, it's honestly up in the air for me to call, but let's not dissuade others opinions as speculation. It's fact that the Ten Tails performed the technique, but that's like saying just cause Gaara uses Shukaku''s sand its the beast's ability and not his. The Beast could be no more than facilitating this ability, not being an actual user. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * And the flaws in your arguments are thus...first Yahiko was dead when he was made a Six Paths of Pain puppet. The modifications to him were done post-mortem. And the difference is neither Obito nor Madara are the beast's jinchuriki by which neither can use the beast's techniques and vice-versa. Gaara retained his ability to use sand, but he only gained it by being Shukaku's jinchuriki. This is like saying that Son Goku's Flower Fruit Mountain technique is not his own...it could have been something developed by Roshi, but again we don't know. If someone uses a technique, list them as a user and unless contradictory evidence appears, let it stay. Darksusanoo (talk) 20:11, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

So now i ask...when have ever seen a situation like this? A technique being channeled through another living being? What's the point? Why not use it himself? I also ask what's more speculative? That the beast can use Mokuton or that Obito pulled off a completely new concept? Besides Obito and Madara mentioned they were taking a back seat to use the beast's powers soo...Darksusanoo (talk) 23:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Since Ten-Tails is flowrish/treeish, I say it's possible for it to be the source of Wood Release (along with Sharingan and Rinnegan) but that's just my mumbling :) On topic, I say we should add Ten-Tails as a user, because not adding it is the same logic as removing Tailed Beast Ball from it's infobox since it's being controlled and not using it by itself--Elveonora (talk) 23:18, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

Safer and most logical approach to me, for now, is to keep Obito as the technique's only user, and say he used it through the Ten-Tails. He even did a hand gesture and all, as if performing the motion of the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:27, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

What about a collaborative technique "large fast spikes wood no jutsu, obito uchiha with ten-tails" or something?;)--Elveonora (talk) 02:52, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

"Sigh"...it was the Ten-Tails who used the technique...i don't remember chakra flow working through living beings and neither saw one technique being used through another being as well. Darksusanoo (talk) 03:01, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

That's why I'm saying we should treat it as been done by both of them to avoid speculation. Also I doubt Obito is THAT strong, he either used Ten-Tails' chakra (but he ain't a jinchuriky so how?) thus unlikely, channeled Wood Release through Ten-Tails (this still makes the Ten-Tails a user) or it was work of the monster alone with Obito just giving order, you decide--Elveonora (talk) 03:07, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * The more direct and simple explanation is that Obito commanded the beast to use the technique, since that's pretty much what he's focused on...i doubt he'd waste his own chakra into a technique since both Uchiha are struggling a bit to control the juubi as it is so they are pretty much focused on that. Darksusanoo (talk) 03:11, December 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Two things
 * 1) People appear to be gleefully ignoring my point that if something isn't in control of it's actions, it doesn't get listed as using it. I will remind people again, Naruto didn't get Tailed Beast Ball added to his infobox, until he got Tailed Beast Mode and did it then. Tobi focusing a jutsu through the Ten-Tails is the same as the Nine-Tails focusing the Tailed Beast Ball through Naruto.
 * 2) Someone made the point to remove the Tailed Beast Ball from the Ten-Tails because Obito and Madara had made the demon do it. Unlike the above, the Tailed Beast Ball is literally the demon attack. Even if Madara and Obito never fired a shot, it would be listed because all tailed beasts have it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 05:28, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * And you seem to forget the difference between Naruto and Madara/Tobi is that the first is a jinchuriki in other words the beast and it's powers are sealed and can be channeled because of it. The latter ones are just controling the monster. It's like the difference between driving a machine and becoming the machine itself. Another thing...yeah Obito's powerful, but to pull off a Wood Release of that scale given the difficulty to use this kekkei genkai it seems difficult at best when they are already struggling to keep the Ten-Tails under control seems off. Darksusanoo (talk) 19:38, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Since the ten tails is the maifestation of almost everything, it should be able to use every nature, even ying and yang release and everything else. 94.135.247.44 (talk) 19:41, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * If chakra isn't able to be transfered into living beings then why was Tsunade and several others able to transfer chakra to other poeple (sarcasim)?71.71.58.231 (talk) 00:25, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 * One thing is using chakra to heal/replenish another person, the other is using another person as a medium for one's own technique which seems as a much more far-fetched concept than the Ten-Tails being able to use the Wood Release on his own. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:33, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Chiyo used Naruto's chakra to help with her Reanimation Technique remember?71.71.58.231 (talk) 00:40, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 * Again same difference: Chakra flow vs technique medium. Chiyo used Naruto's chakra cuz she was empty, she didn't use Naruto as a medium for it, she was still the one using the technique. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:44, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * True. But it doesn't mean that it's impossible.71.71.58.231 (talk) 01:02, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach

It seems a bit difficult to accept that Obito could pull off something of that scale, since his Wood Release abilities aren't all that powerful nor is his control over the Ten-Tails perfect and also that the chakra flow concept is from a person to an object, not from a living being to another. 2.80.178.114 (talk) 23:33, December 19, 2012 (UTC)