Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-43403813-20190805194702/@comment-43403813-20190809180606

What do you mean there's nothing pointing to Pain being able to reverse-summon from Kamui? The fact that Sasuke is able to summon Garuda to Kaguya's dimension, a space-time jutsu where its resemblance to Obito's is almost uncanny, is something that points to Pain being able to reverse-summon from Kamui. Also, entering Kamui and leaving Kamui are two very different things, Pain wouldn't be able to enter Kamui, but he would be able to escape.

^ As a way of explaining, imagine Bob casts a genjutsu on James. Bob knows the specific technique that activates this genjutsu, therefore in order to use this genjutsu, he must know the technique. However, James does not necessarily need to know the technique in order to "exit" the genjutsu e.g. physical pain could be used to break out of this genjutsu. There are many different ways to bypass the effects of various techniques, and this is comparable to Kamui.

The space-time jutsu Kamui through Obito's sharingan is required to enter the Kamui dimension, but the individual trapped in Kamui may be able to use their own techniques and resources to escape Kamui, either successfully or ending in failure. If not, why would Obito need to cast a genjutsu on his captives in Kamui to subdue them, if there is no way for them to escape? He would rather not risk it, indicating that there is possibly a way to escape his dimension.

Attempting to enter Kamui would mean that you're intentionally hijacking Obito's mangekyou ability, but leaving Kamui is a means of avoiding it, and as long as the animal path or Nagato are in the dimension where the shinobi world is, they'd be able to reverse-summon any other paths of Pain trapped in Kamui.

It can be argued that Hagoromo was able to reverse-summon Team 7 back due to the Animal path. By your logic, the only way to escape Kaguya's dimensions would be to use Kaguya's wormholes, but that was proven not to be the case. Additionally, Hagoromo only needed chakra from the other Kage because he gave a lot of chakra to both Sasuke and Naruto, as well as the fact that he is only an essence of himself rather than alive, meaning that the chakra he had available to him was very limited. So in theory, Pain should be able to do this as well through his use of the Animal path to a much smaller scale: reverse-summoning from Obito's smaller pocket dimension that is closer rather than Kaguya's expansive and much farther multiple dimensions.

I literally said that what I said about FTG was conjecture, I was just theorising a possible counter-argument. A couple press-ups and punches supervised by White Zetsu wouldn't necessarily propel Obito into beating Minato, so using "training" as an argument is insufficient, and Madara did nothing, he just sat in his chair siphoning chakra. But that doesn't mean I don't believe you in saying FTG can't escape Kamui.

Did you forget that Pain fought the entire Leaf Village and then proceeded to blow it up? Shinra Tensei's usual interval is 5 seconds, and after Pain used Chaotic Shinra Tensei, he was unable to use the Deva path for over half the battle with Naruto. This must tell you how much chakra was spent using that technique. Even after all this, Pain stated himself that he would enlargen the Chibaku Tensei before Sage Naruto mysteriously reappeared, so he wasn't phased by the fact that the Kyuubi broke out. So under normal circumstances, Pain from jump would easily be able to produce a Chibaku Tensei capable of capturing the 8 tails cloak, if not the complete 9 tails. What happened in that battle between Pain and the 8 tails cloak does not accurately represent Pain's true power. And also, Pain didn't want to kill Naruto either, he wanted to capture him as well.