Talk:Izanagi

Article
Should we really put this page up for now? I mean, even if it is no longer a spoiler, there has been nothing about this technique that we know of, aside from the name. Just like Chibaku Tensei, when Nagato said its name on Chapter 438, we didn't knew what its effects were until the next chapter. So should we wait until Madara or Danzō explain what the technique actually does before putting this page up? Yatanogarasu 17:18, January, 14 2009 (UTC)

Until Madara explains what exactly it does, everything we know about this technique are nothing but especulations. I prefer to wait for his explanation, but we could put the name "Izanagi" in Danzo's page for while, without a link of course, like we did with Chibaku Tensei a long time ago. Shadow Abyss (talk) 02:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record (you may want to put this in "trivia" or something), Izanagi is one of the two Gods in the Shinto creation myth, the other being Izanami. They were a man and a woman who were given a magical Naginata (kind of like a spear) to raise the first earth out of nothingness. They basically became the parents of Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, and Susanno.


 * For the record, I'm pretty sure this page was only created from vandalism, before the new chapter was released.--Enoki911 (talk) 04:35, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

It's going to be made sooner or later. Might as well leave it as something vague and people will edit it later.--The tick rules (talk) 05:46, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we put a pic in the box area, i know it maybe too early but it feels off without one --Exhorresco (talk) 23:32, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Mind-controlling Dōjutsu (Unnamed)
isn't this jutsu kind of related to the Mind-controlling Dōjutsu (Unnamed) jutsu because all he does is hypnotising the person he is fighting --94.183.154.188 (talk) 09:10, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Pure speculation. The manga is pointing it to being the jutsu he is useing to constantly revive himself.BEsides that jutsu your talking about is an exclusive techinque to him and Shisui only so no its not just hypnotizinng a person like most sharingan can do.Saimaroimaru (talk) 15:34, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

That isn't what it is pointing out. It is pointing out that the jutsu allows the user to split in and out of reality. Therefore allowing them to touch others but not be touched themselves. This would still not allow for mind control.WolfMaster (talk) 21:37, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uh what are you talking about. The dude before me thought Izanagi and shusui jutsu were related when they weren't beyond their user.Saimaroimaru (talk) 04:27, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed Upon?
"It is interesting to note that Izanagi may also be the technique that Madara used to escape Amaterasu which Itachi had implanted into Sasuke's eye to prevent their meeting."

Well is it? We shouldnt put unconfirmed stuff, Im removing it --Exhorresco (talk) 18:52, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

It's possible that he just used his space-time technique. But Madara is still a possible user. We haven't seen his left eye yet, which leads me to think that the "damage" that his sharingan supposedly has was due to using Izanagi at the end of his battle with the First. Not only would this explain (some) his supposedly lost power, but also how he fooled the First into thinking he was dead.

Or, Madara could've kept the fact that he had the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan obscure( to himself ). This in turn keeps the fact that he is immortal, hidden.
 * Madara's survival was due to some other jutsu. Itachi [And the databook] claim that his eyes are fine, and the databook stated that the jutsu he used to survive and stay alive is known only to him.Wreiad (talk) 20:54, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really which one? Can you send me a link, image, anything at all?
 * Sure. Read the tobi Translation and the chapter page  EDIT: Please remember to sign your comments.Wreiad (talk) 21:09, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you agree with me that it wasn't Izangai that Madara used? [p.s. thx for the links!!^_^]JaiBoogie (talk) 21:42, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * The databook came out before the new chapter did. It's possible that some things were changed. However, odds are that he did not use this jutsu to escape Sasuke's Amaterasu. Putting that in the page is speculation.--Enoki911 (talk) 01:59, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes Jai, I'm doubtful it was Izanagi. It really doesn't seem like that given the picture of him pierced with a sword and how someone poofs after being fatally hit while using Izanagi. @ Enoki | He seems to have used the Kamui jutsu to remove the fire. I agree this stuff should be left until it the truth comes to light.Wreiad (talk) 02:23, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Yes and due to the fact that Madara stated here at the bottom of the page that the eye's used to cast Izanagi would lose their eyesight and never open again. Doing the math considering the fact that he fought the 1st after taking his brother's eyes, if he used the technique to escape the 1st then that left him with one good eye. Then if he used it to evade the Rasengan that would leave him blind. If he took Itachi's eyes after Sasuke said that he didn't want them he would be able to use it two more times. If he used Izanagi to put out Amaterasu he would again have on good eye. Now i'm not going to go through the other attacks that Madara evaded but I will use his fight with Fu as the last example. During that fight he was stabbed through the head if he used Izanagi then he would be blind again therefore unable to watch the fight between Danzo and Sasuke. This is only if you are stating that Madara's time-space jutsu is Izanagi. Also it can be fair to say that Izanagi is not a Mangekyo technique seeing as how Danzo doesn't appear to have a Mangekyo sharingan on his body and the evidence of the eyes that used Izanagi would close and the sharingan that have closed were normal then that means anyone who possesses the normal sharingan can use it.WolfMaster (talk) 21:25, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Question
When Danzo releases Izanagi, does the closed Uchiha eyes reopen? --Exhorresco (talk) 23:43, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait until Friday and see for your self. Jacce | Talk 05:24, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Honza8D (talk)

They don't reopen as Madara states here that any sharingan that is used to cast the technique would close and never reopen.WolfMaster (talk) 23:35, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Image
I have this image, but I don't know if it is good enough to put up on the page.--Mpc797 (talk) 01:32, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * How does that represent the jutsu at all? Simant (talk) 01:34, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * It shows Danzo negating the effects of him geting hit by the arrow, which is represented by the puff of smoke--Mpc797 (talk) 01:36, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is good, but I think we should also include a picture of Danzo's eyes closing. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 14:38, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should add this to the page, since the division of the Tailed Beasts is a very important use of the technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:35, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mm, I think the current image illustrates how it works better. ZeroSD (talk) 00:30, September 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not suggesting to use it as the main image, just to have it added to the article. While it does show the complete technique, unlike Danzō's incomplete Izanagi, it shows very little. Maybe if they do a flashback and show it better, or if Madara uses it to make something big as well, but not that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Genjutsu
I know that this is confirmed genjutsu, but I don't quite understand how. Genjutsu acreate illusions; Izanagi makes illusions into reality. Can someone explain?--Enoki911 (talk) 02:01, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically, this genjutsu is so powerful that it actually warps reality, though only in a short range. Instead of creating illusions, one becomes illusions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:06, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't quite make sense. It says in the article itself that, according to Madara at least, the user places the genjutsu on themselves. If that is so, then wouldn't that only cause the user to only think that they were dead, when in actuality they weren't?--Enoki911 (talk) 02:29, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

This can be summed up with a philosophical theory that life is all a dream and you are merely the imagination of yourself meaning that like genjutsu life is just an illusion. If following this idea and thinking of the statements made about Izanagi being able to alter reality and being cast on the user. This will mean that Izanagi is a genjutsu that alters a preexisting illusion (reality) of the user who is also an illusion since they are the imagination of themselves. This explains the effects how the user is very aware of themselves as reality and they are both illusions and Izanagi alters both at the same time. The jutsu simply makes the user (illusion) unable to be hit by another person (another illusion) but to still be able to touch them. And if the user is aware of the genjutsu cast on them they will not feel any effect of the genjutsu other than altered perception. This may have complicated things, but does this help to explain the jutsu?WolfMaster (talk) 21:35, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we were to accept that philosophy as true, then yes. However, this is a highly debatable theory, so it doesn't quite seem adequate to me. There is no proof, both in the Naruto world and the real world, that we are mere illusions, dreams, etc. Any other ideas?--Enoki911 (talk) 07:02, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Amusingly enough, there is no proof we aren't mere illusions or dreams. Just because we feel, doesn't necessarily make us real. Ponder that for a moment. ^_^ We do know however, that this is a genjutsu cast on oneself that warps reality for the user.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:22, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly, all i'm saying is that if a genjutsu (illusion technique) is used to affect actual reality and not just the reality of what seems to be then reality has to be an illusion itself as genjutsu, by what has been said so far can only affect illusions and alter perceptions. However altered perceptions does not count here as that would be implying that Izanagi makes the enemy think that they hit the user when they actually did just for the injury or death to be turned into an illusion. I'm not saying that there is proof or even that reality is an illusion but so far this is all we have to go on as one chapter is not enough to explain a jutsu completely if it is kept ambiguous throughout the chapter. Though I do have a question of my own, though Izanagi changes reality and only lasts a short time. Then why didn't Sasuke see through the illusion sooner than he did? After all one ability of the sharingan is to be able to see past genjutsu, this job being made easier since Sasuke wasn't the one trapped in the genjutsu.WolfMaster (talk) 15:33, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * A) If you want to have a philosophical discussion, then go to my talk page. B) In response to your Sasuke question, WolfMaster, either Sasuke did see through Izanagi, and kept quiet so that Danzō wouldn't know that he knew, or he was simply too distracted by his anger at Danzō, having to focus on the fight, and the strain of using Susanoo. Personally, I favor the first.--Enoki911 (talk) 17:29, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Madara
I know this isn't confirmed and it shouldn't be posted until it is but it is more than likely that Madara is able to use Izanagi for a couple pf reasons. For one he probably used it to survive from the first hokage making him go blind in his left eye. That would also explain why he wheres a mask that only has one eye hole. Remember this is just a theory not fact so nobody edit any pages because of this. 76.126.77.35 (talk) 23:14, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's rethink this. Madara has an eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, meaning it doesn't go blind. If he did indeed use Izanagi, would the effect [Blindness] apply to him? We don't know. Furthermore, Itachi already said his eyes are fine, and the databook claims his jutsu is something else.Wreiad (talk) 23:33, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

It actually states that you can't go blind by normal means with the eternal mangekyo sharingan, which Izanagi is not a natural way of going blind. But still it hasn't been proven that Madara can use Izanagi, it's just a theory.76.126.77.35 (talk) 23:49, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not a forum. Do not post speculation here.--Enoki911 (talk) 06:59, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we remove this now? Its been a long time since Madara and Obito were declared separate entities, and Madara's use of Izanagi is still unconfirmed175.110.159.98 (talk) 10:27, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Obito used Izanagi, Izanagi is an Uchiha kinjutsu, Madara told Obito he'd teach him use Uchiha kinjutsu. It stands to reason that Obito learned Izanagi from Madara. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:22, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Not only kinjutsu, but also yin-yang release, Izanagi is both ;)--Elveonora (talk) 13:19, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Genjutsu ?? Dōjutsu??
"Izanagi is a Sharingan dōjutsu which the Uchiha clan deemed forbidden. According to Madara Uchiha, it is the most powerful genjutsu an individual can cast upon themselves." I'm a bit confused here... --Blaublau94 (talk) 06:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's nothing to be confused about, the two terms are not mutually exclusive. Genjutsu means the technique creates an illusion, while dōjutsu means the technique is performed with one's eyes. Izanagi is both. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:09, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Effects
According to this article, "The actual effects of Izanagi varies from user to user". But, where it this stated? 201.214.101.91 (talk) 15:25, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Chapter 479, page 5. Wreiad (talk) 17:10, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Meaning
From what I've read about Shinto mythology, Izanagi does not literally mean God of Creation, and also, the technique name is written in hiragana, so the literal English should be just "Izanagi". 24.45.20.86 (talk) 00:01, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

abilities
i understand how izanagi can make reality an illusion because of how he doesn't die but i don't understand how it can make illusion a reality. can someone explain that? --71.156.43.33 (talk) 03:22, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but we don't write this story. Wreiad (talk) 05:12, February 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably something akin to the time-space jutsu other sharingan jutsu have combined with genjutsu. ZeroSD (talk) 23:37, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Genjutsu become real?
According to SJ(American version) it also makes Genjutsu become real.Umishiru (talk) 01:47, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, real to the user only. It is a Genjutsu the user casts on ones self. Arrancar79 (talk) 01:53, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind, I knew that, was thinking something else.Umishiru (talk) 02:31, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry
Oh i'm sorry about deleting the last edit, I didn't read the new chapter until now

Rinnegan
Since the Sage of the Six Paths could use it, and he didn't have a Sharingan, what should we do? Remove the Sharigan from the requirement or list the Rinnegan as a requirement as well? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:39, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should list the Rinnegan since it said it required Uchiha and Senji Blood, So that means It need the Sharingan(Uchiha) and Rinnegan (Senji) that's probally why the Ten tails has an eye like that

We could put both.--FullMetalXY (talk) 22:57, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking the sage's eyes were mutated by the Juubi's chakra to the point of gaining tomoe, and that not only created a new dojutsu, but allowed him to use Sharingan dojutsu. Yes, this is a theory, but the tomoe shown over his head when he's depicted obviously means something, perhaps that he gained more power from using the Juubi's chakra. Madara himself claims to want to become the Juubi's host, and he wants the rinnegan, and has claimed before that the plan is about the "sharingan's true power", which could be referring to the Juubi's dojutsu or it's chakra mutating his eyes. Right now the rinnegan shouldn't be added as a requirement because it wouldn't make any sense. It simply hasn't been shown as possessing any significant abilities or similarities with the shairngan. At the very least, if possible, we should have a high resolution image of this page to show whether or not the sage's rinnegan gained tomoe as indicated by the symbol above his head and the diagram. It seems to be in eyes, but let's be sure.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/12

Wreiad (talk) 03:00, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

This jutsu was created by the Sage of the Sixth Path, it's obviouly a Rinnegan jutsu, in origin. Only a rinnegan user has the the power of both Uchiha and Senju (who are derived from the sage), because he can use any form of chakra, elemental or yin and yang. Izanagi was created using yin and yang by the Sage. This is why madara wants the rinnegan, because even if he acquired the power of hashirama, he has to sacrifice an eye to use this jutsu, just like danzou


 * Please sign your comments. There is no evidence that it was Rinnegan dojutsu in origin, as that would make it a kekkei genkai. Madara mentioned that having the Senju and Uchiha's "powers" is what gives one access to Izanagi, not having the Rinnegan. He claims the foundation for Izanagi is manipulating spiritual and physical energies, and never attributes it to the Rinnegan. As I said, it may be a dojutsu that was given birth to by the dojutsu the sage attained from having the Juubi's chakra, and would thus explain why there are tomoe shown in his eye. Madara himself has claimed that his plan is about the Sharingan's true power, not the Rinnegan's.

Wreiad (talk) 14:42, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Having the Senju and Uchiha's "powers" IS having the Rinnegan. It's clearly stated that the Senju has the physical body and willpower of the Sage and the Uchiha the chakra and the eyepower. "manipulating spiritual and physical energies" is the manipulation of yin and yang, and that PRECISELY one of the Rinnegan attributes: the ability to use ANY chakra manipulation, it is stated many times. There's no tomoe in the Sage eyes, we've only seen the Sage with the rinnegan and a little view of the eye of the juubi. it is the juubi who has the tomoe. "the sharingan true power" is the Rinnegan of the Sage, because with the Rinnegan you can build up the juubi and use the perfect izanagi just like the Sage did -Beldin September 16


 * Having the Senju and Uchiha's "powers" is not having the Rinnegan; he and Konan never says that. Again, spiritual and physical energies are not kekkei genkai, nor is being being able to manipulate them. The rikudo merely discovered something that already existed. Izanagi would be a Rinnegan kekkei genkai if the Sage used it with his Rinnegan in the sense of being a dojutsu, and that wouldn't make any sense at all when given how Nagato has never been shown to have used a Sharingan technique. I'm not sure how many times I can say it's better to wait until there's a much higher resolution image to confirm that rikudo's eyes had tomoe.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/12

Right now there's more to indicate that his eyes mutated from the Juubi's influence and that's what ultimately gave rise to Izanagi, not the Rinnegan, which as never been shown to have the same powers as the sharingan until this unique circumstance. The eye is even shown with 6 tomoe versus the Juubi's 9, so it's not the Juubi's eye, but Rikudo's under the influence of it's chakra. The 6 tomoe most most likely has something to do with the Juubi and being the "sage of the 6 paths", as his necklace most likely has to do with the Juubi given how Naruto attained something similar from the fox recently. The Rikudo didn't create the Juubi either. He's only said to have created the tailed beasts known today from splitting it's chakra. Wreiad (talk) 02:53, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

That's a lot of speculation. Nothing was ever said about how the Ten-Tails affected the Sage of the Six Paths, just that he became stronger. Also, the Rinnegan laid foundation for Sharingan and Byakugan, not the Ten-Tails. The Sharingan evolved from the not-quite-Rinnegan dōjutsu the older son had, and as far as we know, the Sage already had sons when he became a jinchūriki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:49, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yin and Yang
Let me see if I got this straight. Sage of the Six Paths used a genjutsu to create the Tailed Beast, and since he said he the process involved Yin-Yang manipulation, this genjutsu has a nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:14, September 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * If Yin and Yang are elements, aren't all genjutsu elemental? --GoDai (talk) 03:57, September 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * The same confusing thoughts can be applied to the Nara Clan's shadow based techniques and others alike. I think we should avoid dwelling on such thoughts until the manga clarifies more of this. Besides, Madara have only explained how he used the properties of both to create anything from nothing and how the same can somehow be applied with Izanagi. --Gojita (talk) 16:56, September 16, 2010 (UTC)Gojita

Omnibender knows where I'm coming from because me and him are talking about this, but Izanagi is a YinYang elemental technique that can turn Imagination and thought into reality. Technically, it is much more than a genjutsu, it really is a jutsu that has multiple abilities, one being a genjutsu like ability, another being able to create even living things. --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 20:01, September 16, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

There is also something else to discuss on Inzanagi, Madara says that only people who have uchiha and senju power can use it, but the uchiha labeled it a kinjutsu, meaning they were familiar with the technique, meaning that many people probably could use it if they bothered announcing it was declared a kinjutsu, meaning that many people would have had senju/uchiha power.....just a though --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:32, September 17, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

sry im posting three times in a row but i realized that in the article you need both uchiha/senju power to fully utilize the technique, which i agree and think it makes sense, the uchiha could only use a variationof Izanagi --Sauske-Blaze (talk) 01:34, September 17, 2010 (UTC)Sauske-Blaze

I think there is an explanation of how they knew about it. The matter of the tablet at Naka Shrine which can only be read by possessors of the Sharingan, Mangekyo Sharingan, and Rinnegan which has the story of the Sage written on it. Izanagi was originally his technique, so it more than likely had atleast a small mention of it on the tablet.WolfMaster (talk) 00:48, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Duration
Madara said during the Danzo fight that Izanagi normally lasts for 'the briefest of moments' (chap 479 p2). I'm having trouble figuring out how to add that info in a phrasing that fits well. Also presumably this is for the incomplete non-senju boosted version, but that might fall under speculation. ZeroSD (talk) 02:27, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was "Senju boosted" it's the only way he could use all those eyes. It's just that he was unable o control it--Cerez365 (talk) 02:41, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know, I just think we should mention the base duration somewhere. ZeroSD (talk) 05:14, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

danzo using the tech
" He also had Orochimaru extend the lifespan of each Sharingan's Izanagi to a minute, allowing him to use the technique for up to ten minutes, with breaks in between as he deemed necessary."

There's no specific reference to how long he can use it, that says it's a minute for each. In fact it makes a point of saying that's why he keeps looking at the eyes on his arm, because the time of each was extended but not necessarily a minute flat as this says. It just seems like it needs to be changed and not so specific. 173.26.55.148 (talk) 21:02, December 15, 2010 (UTC) miah
 * Chapter 479 page 5, Madara comments that Orochimaru must have experimented on the eyes to make the jutsu last longer and Danzo is thinking that he only have five eyes left and take his "chance on the next minute". Page 11 shows Karin counting seconds and gets it to one minute and comments that Danzo's chakra dropped. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 21:13, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Creation of All Things = Izanagi
Isn't the Creation of All Things Izanagi itself? And wouldn't that mean that the Sennin can use Izanagi, too? Seelentau 愛議 17:28, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

That is discussed in length on this page..-_-. Please read all or most of it before making posts like this.

Just point him to the discussion. I'm leaving the link so others may see it should they come across this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:18, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

Ref-tag
Something's wrong with the references :/ Seelentau 愛議 12:49, May 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * It happens sometimes. All you have to do is change a word or add a punctuation mark or something to fix it.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:52, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Why do we not have 'Creation of all things' as an article
if it is truly seperate from Izanagi, we should make a page for it and have Izanagi as a related jutsu.

It's evidently Yin-Yang element as well so I think we have grounds to make a page

question
are both sharingan and senju power required to perfom the technique ? the article says that its possible just with Sharinga. But narutobase version of chapter where konan and madara fight say that you need both, so how is it ?
 * For the complete technique yes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:24, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

The Sharingan allows for use of this technique for 'the briefest of moments'. For the complete version of the technique, you need to have the powers of both clans, with the mastery over said powers dictating how good their Izanagi is (hence, why Madara's use was superior to Danzo's). Skitts (talk) 02:50, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

ningenjutsu kinjutsu
Parts of this post is somewhat similar to the one above 'genjustu'. Izanagi has been classified as a genjutsu but I think it can be better classified as a ningenjutsu technique since it combines both illusionary and real elements when executed similar to the raikages nintaijutsu.

Secondly i think Danzo trully waisted his izanagi 10 minutes since izanagi is 'capable of turning injuries and even death inflicted upon the user into mere illusions.' it means he could've used kinjustu such as fully activating the 8 gates without any risk of death or muscules ripping which would have given him great power and advantage in battle, instead of using ordinary wind release and other such jutsu's

1. It was stated as a genjutsu in the manga. To classify it as anything else is to go against the word of god. Just to be clear, "word of god" is used to refer to the word of the creator of the series in that case.

2. This isn't a forum. It isn't a place to criticize what happened in the manga and to say what should have happened. Talk pages are for the benefit of the wiki itself. Ryne 91 (talk) 06:12, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

Senju DNA ??
Does this really require it or not ? I'm confused, each time I see people saying it does and then that it doesn't. --Elveonora (talk) 13:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe it does. If it did, then how would the Uchiha have declared it a Kinjutsu? Unless snatching Hashirama's DNA is really just that easy.... I believe his DNA simply enhances it. Who knows. I think Tobi comments on it, but I can't remember him stating it was a necessity. Skitts (talk) 13:58, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

It is probably only for non-uchiha members because Izanagi can only be used by those with the genetic traits of the Sage of the Six Paths and also to increase their vitility Salil dabholkar (talk) 14:04, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * It can only be used by those with at least a Sharingan. The way you worded it makes it sound like Senju can access it. Skitts (talk) 14:07, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

So both is not an requirement, just Sharingan alone is enough ? --Elveonora (talk) 14:29, April 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sharingan is the requirement. Senju DNA makes it better.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:31, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

I want to roll this up again. Why do you guys think that a Sharingan is enough? Tobi says that Izanagi can only be used by those who possess both powers, Uchiha's and Senju's. Seelentau 愛議 11:50, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Itachi just said that the uchiha had a habit of using it, it seems unlikely that all of them possessed Senju genes as well. I'm guessing it's also because Itachi's explanation of Izanagi's history and abilities is more recent than Tobi's. TricksterKing (talk) 12:18, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Seeing as we have two sources that are contridictory to each other (unless the Uchiha went on a killing spree) I don't think we can come up with an actual answer for this until more info is put forth. I say this point should go in trivia and stay there until we learn more about Izanagi. Joshbl56  12:25, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * What Itachi is saying isn't contracting to what Tobi is saying. But the whole Izanagi/Izanami stroy is ridiculous. I think we should wait with such assumptions as they are made in the article. Seelentau 愛議 12:56, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * What I meant was that Itachi made it sound like the Uchiha just started to randomly use Izanagi but Tobi said it required both the Senju and Uchiha DNA, which would mean that the Uchiha would have to go on a killing spree to gain such things. Joshbl56  13:04, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I know, I know. The whole thing is confusing, that's why we shouldn't write it down as facts yet. Seelentau 愛議 13:21, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

I brought this up on ShounenSuki's talkpage once ... it would be ridiculous if it turned out that Senju power is also really needed ... then Uchiha were nothing more than barbaric tribe with Godly powers 0_o But since they are gifted with "Sage's eyes" I think they can do it pretty much with Sharingan alone, Senju stuff is just an enhancement to pretty much everything lol --Elveonora (talk) 13:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's just your speculation. Seelentau 愛議 13:29, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, isn't this all speculation as we have no solid prove? Joshbl56  13:31, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

To fix the issue, we should mention that there are differences between what Tobi and Itachi say and that BOTH are good liars, so it's unknown which is true at the moment --Elveonora (talk) 13:39, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * We can only go by what we have. We have Tobi's statement that you need both Uchiha and Senju power for Izanagi. And we have Itachi's statement that many Uchiha used Izanagi in fights and such. I don't see how these to statements oppose each other. I know that the thought of Uchiha going on a killing spree for the Senju DNA is ridiculous, but it's not up to us to decide what's true and what's not. We can write both statements in the article, saying that after Itachi's statement it's unclear if really both Senju and Uchiha power is needed for Izanagi. Seelentau 愛議 13:43, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * So we are going to keep both of them on the page together? I guess that's all we can do for now and hope this is cleared up later. I wouldn't say unclear, more like improbable. Joshbl56  13:48, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's up to us who to trust ... yes, I think we should mention that it's unknown at the moment, and the story of each imply something ... but we should not yet word it like: "Izanagi was common among Uchiha and Senju power is also needed" because most would assume the killing spree scenario is true and we simply don't know for sure ... maybe like this: "Tobi says that powers of both Senju and Uchiha are required while Itachi that: Izanagi was common among Uchiha, thus it's unknown which is true if not both"--Elveonora (talk) 13:56, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Requirements of the jutsu
Tobi explicitly says that Izanagi is a jutsu that can only be performed by those who have the powers (DNA) of the Uchiha *and* Senju.

I say this because this article seems to mislead the reader in thinking Izanagi can be used by the Uchiha clan, but it can be used better when the DNA of the Senju are in the picture. That is contradictory to what Tobi explained. Tobi seemed to imply that Danzo's lack of control over Hashirama's DNA is why he could use use it as well as he could. Minor speculation, perhaps.

However the article is going by speculation to imply that Izanagi can be used *without* Senju DNA. This isn't the message that Tobi gave when he described Izanagi, in detail, when he spoke to Konan.

Izanami may not require Senju genetics, but the pages we can nab show that Izanagi does.

Before spontaneously editing the article: I thought I'd get some words on this before I even thinking of editing.

Note I made careful use of saying Senju DNA as that is the requirement; not necessarily Hashirama's particular DNA.

Read above, that's why I ask. Also sign ur post. --Elveonora (talk) 23:24, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Izanagi jutsu to all uchiha clan
I think we should include Izanagi to all uchiha clan jutsu. Slayersimon (talk) 10:47, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why? Have they all used it? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:51, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think every Uchiha has fireball jutsu listed even though it's a coming of age technique.--Elveonora (talk) 14:37, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * There was a discussion about that. Which I think I started '~'.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:42, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

as of latest chapter ...
Is it just me, or the latest manga contradicts what we know ? read please: http://www.narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=191643 the first half has some good points, the rest is just opinion.--Elveonora (talk) 10:27, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

i think that an uchiha can use izanagi for long period of time (like tobi did vs konan ) using only one eye the attack of konnan work for 10 minutes then tobi die use izanagi to come back and did this for more than one time waiting the jutsu end. if izanagi work only on a istant tobi must be died because even if he use izanagi once he come bak in the explosion of konan technique so die again and he must use a other eye --Nitram86 (talk) 10:43, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Also Tobi said it can be used to alter one's own reality, so how could Uchiha fight over which results to use ?--Elveonora (talk) 11:02, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

@Nitram86 If I remember correctly, Izanagi doesn't put you in the same place is you were in the beginning. For all we know, Tobi could have just use it to get out of there quickly and waited for it to end, but this is all speculation. As for the link, I would like to try and answer some questions.
 * For the arrogance, I think the Uchiha have an arrogant streak anyway and their ability to defy death would make it worse.
 * I think that when Itachi said it would be a problem he meant that multiple Uchiha's used this jutsu. Seeing as the Uchiha were a warring clan, losing members because of their loss of eyesight would be the worst possibility.
 * For the bickering, I think it would be like kids fighting over who 'died' during a game of soldiers (or whatever else). Someone was suppose to 'die' but didn't because they had 'didn't get hit' (aka, Izanagi) and the others didn't see it that way. It was probably a big hit to their pride (and we all know how bad that is for them).
 * Using the jutsu more than twice is probably possible. They could have transplanted another members sharingan or the jutsu could be possible with a blind eye (that's pure speculation so pay no attention to it, I'm just trying to find a way to explain things) Joshbl56  11:24, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for replies ... also is it a MS technique or not ?--Elveonora (talk) 16:42, May 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, Danzo uses the technique with 10 (not sure of the exact number) regular sharingans. Joshbl56  16:45, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

even if the jutsu don't put you in the same place put you near the place where you are so the jutsu of konan that is in a very wide area put tobi in danger again and if he use izanagi only once while have a lot of damage?? if after use the tecnique you came back in the same heal when you use the tecnique tobi must come back without any injury but when he come back he missing a arm and have the mask broken...i think the damage come from the time between using izanagi the fist time and the use of izanagi again --Nitram86 (talk) 12:24, May 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry to kill it for you but he actually lost his arm and part of his mask during her first attempt to blow him up, not during her 10 minute explosion. He basically came out unscathed (except from his earlier injuries) from that. We don't actually know how far Izanagi can put someone from the starting point as danzo only did it a couple of feet away, just enough to not get injured. Joshbl56  12:42, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

most perfect uchiha eye technique
In the latest chapter (587) on page 3, itachi states that izanagi was rumored to the most perfect uchiha eye technique since it can alter destiny... I think this deserves to be stated at least in the trivia section "and is the most powerful amongst this type of genjutsu" ? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 12:12, May 29, 2012 (UTC)

''and is the most powerful amongst this type of genjutsu (i.e it is the most powerful amongst the type of genjutsu that are cast on the user instead of being cast on the opponent)... that does not imply that it is the most perfect Uchiha eye technique...Izanagi is both the most perfect Uchiha eye technique and the most powerful genjutsu cast on the user... these are 2 different things

EMS
If the EMS prevents the Uchiha from becoming blind then can't a Uchiha theoretically avoid the blindness of Izanagi and Izanami?--Elven Windsword (talk) 02:17, June 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * EMS was only said to prevent blindness which stems from the use of MS and its techniques, nothing was ever said about the blindness brought on by Izanagi and Izanami. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:36, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Prerequisites
I realize that the requirements to use Izanagi have previously been discussed, but despite this, I still fail to see where it is concluded that someone possessing strictly Uchiha DNA can utilize the technique. The only thorough description of the genjutsu given was by Tobi, and he clearly stated only one that had both the powers of the Uchiha and the Senju clan, AKA the Sage of Six Paths' genetics, could perform Izanagi period, not just the complete form. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 06:36, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

could've been ret-conned.71.71.58.236 (talk) 06:45, July 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

So all the Uchiha mentioned in 587, in order to use this technique were poaching off the Senju and integrating their DNA into themselves (running the risk of possibly being unable to suppress all that power and becoming trees) to use the technique o.O? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 09:35, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well Cerez, not all Senju were able to use Wood Release (We've seen multiple people from the Senju clan and only 1 can use Wood Release). This would also explain the bad relationship between Uchiha and Senju as well (this is just speculation though so please don't take it seriously). Joshbl56  10:32, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh dear lol. Apparently I catered it to Hashirama too much, sorry. All Senju have powerful life forces but not everyone would turn into trees >.< I dunno about the face thing, if it would hold true for all of them, but the poaching of a strong clan like that is unthinkable.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 10:35, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

We should word it that it has been implied that Uchiha were addicted to Senju power or something 0_o this "senju power needed vs only uchiha power needed" is confusing and often going nowhere ...--Elveonora (talk) 11:04, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Regardless, it is possible the Uchiha that Itachi was referring to did implant Senju cells to obtain their (and the Sage's) power. Wasn't all of that information left on the tablet in the Naka Shrine? Besides, the only two people that have used Izanagi, Tobi and Danzo, both possessed Uchiha and Senju DNA. Until it is seen or stated otherwise, I think it should be revised to its original requirements. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 19:41, July 12, 2012
 * Everything is indeed possible while at the same time being improbable. The story Itachi told Sasuke lends credibility to the fact that the Uchiha are able to use a rudimentary form of the technique by themselves (i.e. without Senju DNA). I believe them poaching off members of such a powerful clan to be the less likely situation. Also, I think the story Itachi told was pre-founding of the village (not too sure why else an entire clan/so many members would go out to battle). For the time being I don't think anything can be done absent a databook enry for the technique.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 20:15, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter what's probable or not. The fact is, there has not been a single named shinobi that has used Izanagi that didn't possess both clans' DNA, and the single time prerequisites were given was by Tobi, in which he stated one must have the Sage's genetics. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:32, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Madara using Izanagi
Why is Izanagi in Madara's justu/infobox?--Axel Carrozzo (talk) 16:42, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Haven't a clue.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:44, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Given the latest chapter, it's clear that Madara can use it since he is capable of using Yin-Yang Release and taught the kinjutsu to Obito, who used to great efficiency against Konan. Now since Madara has all the prerequisites and taught it to Obito, it's clear he can use it. Darksusanoo (talk) 16:51, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * But this is one of those cases where they have to actually use the technique. He told Obito he would teach him how to use them- teaching can be theoretical with no practical application during the learning process. I can't see Madara and Obito spamming Izanagi during teaching with one eye each...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:55, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * No disrespect sempai but that's utter BS. Here's why:

1. Madara is the most powerful of the Uchiha, a prodigy inside a clan of prodigies, so learning one the clan's top techniques was likely a given.

2. Madara has all the prerequisites to use Izanagi...Sharingan, Wood Release, Rinnegan

3. Madara has knowledge of Yin-Yang Release, of which Izanagi is a technique of...

4. As seen through out the series and now solidified with this chapter, everything Obito can do as a fighter came from Madara. If we were talking about Danzo learning from Madara, who had a poor aplication of Izanagi, i would agree that it could be a theory only learning process. Now Obito managed to maintain Izanagi for at least 10 minutes with one eye while Danzo required 10 eyes and Orochimaru's aid just to hold that long. That level of skill requires an extensive process of learning and some trial and error.

5. We all know that Madara and Obito had a S#$T load of spare eyes, so the spamming part is null. Plus the fact that the old school Uchiha (and Madara is an old school Uchiha) were known to spamming Izanagi, which is why Izanami was created.

6. When in any canon moment of this series has a character teached a technique to another character without having at least a minimal ability to use it?

I'm sorry sempai but there's more evidence for than against...Darksusanoo (talk) 17:28, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * If you read my post, I at no point said Madara couldn't use the technique, nor do I doubt he can use them. However, I did say this seems to be one of the cases where the use needs to be demonstrated before we go adding him as a user, so that topics like this one does not arise and people don't come running, asking why it's there. That is just my opinion, others like yourself might feel differently. I'm simply going off what the wikia usually does.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:36, October 17, 2012 (UTC)

@Cerez, I don't see Minato having his soul eaten by Shinigami only to have it returned back and teach it to Sarutobi this way. @Dark, why did you delete my post?--Elveonora (talk) 17:41, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, We should wait until he actually uses it.~ 17:44, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * @Elveonora, sorry it was my computer who caught a virus a while ago and it's damaged so sometimes it acts up when i'm writing stuff so again sorry. @Ultimate i believe Elveonora was trying to say the opposite of what you were supporting. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:20, October 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Madara also said he'd teach Obito the Six Paths techniques, despite not having his Rinnegan at the time. For all we know, he could have showed Obito through genjutsu or simply told him how to use these techniques.--BeyondRed (talk) 18:23, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was supporting Cerez there. Just got caught in an edit conflict.~ 05:03, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Izanagi able to be used offensively?
It shouldn't be said in the article that the technique could be also used for offensive uses as well as defensive? Tobi's words in this page seem wanted mean that during the fight with Sasuke Danzou manipulated reality even to drive home his attacks, as well as "back to life": http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/5b/5b75ee5434607f02ee12ba2830571b3e14e5634d0ac4aa3c0b4bfa93.jpg In addition also the comments of Karin in this page seem meant it: http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/a2/a2c7b7098dfcca8f07711963542300f388122095cd23db700be18f5a.jpg --JK88 (talk) 20:51, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Who said it's an effensive technique this article only indicates that it's supplementary what are are you talking about.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 21:05, November 5, 2012 (UTC)

Weird, I could promise it was there... EDIT: I bet the OP refers to the fact, that Izanagi can not only turn reality into an illusion, but also make an illusion real. It's missing from the article, at least I don't see it there--Elveonora (talk) 15:18, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Madara using izanagi
Madara has never seemed to teach obito anything. The brief moments he was alive was due to gedou mazo. He entrusted his will to one zetsu and it became black zetsu. Even if Black zetsu taught Obito izanagi, it was because of obito's sheer skill and chakra that he was able to master it!

Izanagi should not be in the infobox! Because if madara had used it he wouldn't have the ability to gain EMS. It would be from some other DNA. We cannot assume that he used it sometime in past. Obito had only his left eye that had mangekyo sharingan, also to activate susanoo he would need both his eyes and that other eye is with Kakashi.

We can't even assume that madara used it after battle with hashirama, because he had his EMS before death and also he activated rinnengan with his own eyes and transplanted them into Nagato. He didnt have too many sharingan to spam otherwise he would have had sharingan in both eye socket.

Obito has that many sharingan because of itachi's cooperation with him.

I agree on the fact that he has knowledge of all the uchiha kin-jutsu. But that does not means he used it all. If izanagi is in the infobox then izanami should be there too, or none should be present!

Either Madara taught him inside of a genjutsu, or black zetsu did as his "will" So by your logic, an Uchiha has to sacrifice an eye to confirm he knows how to do so? Minato learned Shinigami without killing himself for example. What has Susanoo to do with this? The only fair statement is the one with Izanami. There's no other way from where Obito could have learned Izanagi as it's not his personal/new technique, Kishi even bothered to draw a panel with Madara stating: "Come, I will teach you Uchiha kinjutsu, six paths techniques and Yin-Yang release" or something like that.--Elveonora (talk) 23:45, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Not to further confuse things but wasn't the stone tablet in the Naka Shrine said to have information on their techniques as well as the clan history and Mangekyo bits? I want to say it was Itachi that said it. Arrancar79 (talk) 08:50, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

I don't remember any techniques being mentioned and even if so, Sasuke read the tablet and didn't know about Izanagi before his encounter with Danzo--Elveonora (talk) 13:42, April 6, 2013 (UTC)