Talk:Shukaku/Archive 1

reason behind the name "Shukaku"?
I've learned that Shukaku apparently is a Nominative Case (A Nominative Case is A type of Pronoun or Noun, opposite of a Accusative Case, for ex. "I" is Nominative where "Me" is Accusative.). Now if this true that must mean that his name "Ichibi No Shukaku" means "I The One Tail" and his other name "Sabaku No Shukaku" means "I Of The Desert". What I want to know is if this is the correct Translation of his name or if "Shukaku" has a Homophone that I can't find that is the correct translation. the reason is because I noticed that Shukaku is the only Bijuu not known by it's tailed name (like "Kyuubi" or "Nibi") or it's Monster Name (like "Youko" or "Nekomata"). SilverSword 17:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, Shukaku isn't a nominative case. It's the nominative case. I.e. it's the Japanese term for "nominative case". However, the name of the Ichibi is indeed a homophone. While the Japanese term for "nominative case" is written as 主格, the name of the Ichibi is written as . It comes from an old folk-tale about a tanuki, a teapot, and a priest (their exact roles differ in the various versions). --ShounenSuki 21:07, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me see if I understand you correctly. What you said was that the Kanji that means "Gaurdian Crane" (like I said on Kyuubi, I don't have Japanese) is pronounced "Shukaku" just like the nominative case that is pronounced "Shukaku"? If so then thank you for the information. --SilverSword
 * Yes. They are written differently and have different meanings, but are pronounced the same. Like the English words "two," "to," and "too". --ShounenSuki 17:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh trust me my lessons in Japanese have MORE than taught me what Homophones are, their possibly one of my biggest complaints about the Language (that and Kanji and no spaces. Otherwise it's actually alot easier than English!) I just wanted to make sure I gotten what you said right. Thanks Again. SilverSword 23:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Let me get this straigh. The Ichibi's name is Shukaku, is a homophone for the Japanese word for "Nominative Case", but it means "Guardian Crane", even though the Ichibi is a tanuki, not a crane. HUH?!
 * As mentioned above, the name Shukaku is taken from an old Japanese folk tale, where it is the name of a priest who bought a teapot that is actually a tanuki in disguise. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:46, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Shukakus Name
on freedict i found that shukaku means host and guest could that possibly mean shukaks name is refering to gaara being the former host of shukaku 24.64.84.114 (talk) 21:33, October 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * No such meaning for the kanji, if you are going to look for a reference look for the meanings of the KANJI, not the romaji or hiragana. The romaji and hiragana are syllabic and can have many meanings, the kanji denotes the meaning of the words. 守 means "guard, protect, defend, obey", and 鶴 means "crane, stork". ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Oct 26, 2009 @ 00:56 (UTC)

Where did this come from?
"Apparently, one of Shukaku's former jinchūriki was the one who inspired the Third Kazekage to create the Iron Sand technique." -- Background Section

Do we have a source of this cause it sounds fanon? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 22:56, February 11, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * it's true reread chiyo's introduction of iron sand. Simant (talk) 22:57, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it on an episode or in the Iron Sand article? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 22:58, February 11, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * It was in an episode, and I believe it was in the manga as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:03, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you, both of you, thanks. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:04, February 11, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Trivia
"Shukaku is the only tailed beast known to have had more than one jinchūriki and an actual name." Technically, one could argue that all of the tailed beasts have had more than one host: when they were fused as the Ten-Tailed Beast, they had a jinchuriki. Individually, the statement is true, but if you count their fusion, then...--Enoki911 (talk) 06:07, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that the Sage of the Six Paths isn't really considered a jinchūriki and the Ten-Tails isn't really considered a Tailed Beast. --ShounenSuki (talk 07:57, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that in Shukaku's case that is about the entity known as Shukaku, not something that Shukaku is part of. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:17, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * If the Sage isn't a Jinchūriki, then why is he listed as one on the Jinchūriki page?--Enoki911 (talk) 04:58, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because in a way, he is a jinchūriki. The Sage is in somewhat of a grey area. --ShounenSuki (talk 10:16, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Near-impenetrable sand defense ?
I think Shield of Sands is the better one

should we change it?

The "Near-impenetrable sand defense" is too long and excessive IMHO

Actually
when kyuubi was first introduced he was 'kitsune kokono tsu no o'. 9-tailed fox. and 'you ko'. mythological fox spirit. it wasn't until later on that he became Kyuubi,and when 'kyuubi' was used,from what i've seen,it was always in the personal sense. example,of speaking about someone and not something. kyuubi himself converses with the 'kyuubi' title. they act as it is his name,he acts as it is his name. thus,I conclude,it's his name and not his... species,per say.75.135.234.155 (talk) 03:09, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not entirely true, actually. Although the naming was a lot less rigid in the first chapters, none of its names were used in a way similar to personal names.
 * Your kitsune kokono tsu no o is actually . It's not a name, but a description.
 * In the first chapter alone, the fox was called, , , , and.
 * Despite this, Kishimoto-sensei later on settled into using mostly . None of these can be considered personal names in the same way Shukaku is the personal name of the One-Tails,. though. All of them are merely descriptions and systematic names. —ShounenSuki (talk 09:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Abilities
Is'nt using a wind nature with his menacing bal a unique ability?

Can we even be sure Shukaku is a Wind Release user? I mean the only Wind Jutsus he have used is Wind Release: Drilling Air Bullet and his Air Bullet/Beast Ball thing. But everytimes he takes a deep breath before using them. What if he just inhaled air and mixed it with his chakra instead? Can we be sure he have Wind Release? So far the only confirmed abilties he have is his unique ability to control sand.KenjiNitari (talk) 21:10, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * His ability was called a Wind Release, ergo he uses Wind Release. Wind Release techniques work like that sometimes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:17, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Whats the deal with Shukaku´s origin?
Ok, according to Madara, ichibi was born after the sage of six paths divided the ten tails to nine separate beasts. Its a fact, BUT in Chapter:97/p9 (anime episode - 58), Gaara said that he represents a living spirit an old priest from Suna sealed in a kettle. I guess the Gaara´s info about the tailed beast´s origins is fake, right?
 * It's called a legend, probably something that the people from Sunagakure came to believe. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:46, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * In a way the ichibi is a living spirit or demon. And it probably was sealed long ago (after the sage split up the ten tails) in a kettle in Suna just like we see the hachibi being sealed in a pot in Kumo. What Gaara said wasn't so much an orgin as it was the story of how the beast came to reside in Suna and himself. --98.203.169.149 (talk) 23:59, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Beast control - possible trivia addition
In episode 205 of shippuden, Madara gives a list of jinchuuriki and the bijuu they contained, curiously Gaara can be seen, in his Post-Time skip outfit poking out of the Shukaku's head. This may mean that this is how Gaara transforms into the One Tails, even if he had a decent relationship with it, since all the other jinchuuriki shown (Yugito, and even Yagura and Killerbee, who had complete beast control) are all shown turning into the full beasts, but are not visible.

Now this may seem petty, but I believe it is worth noting as he is the only jinchuuriki physically protruding from the beast. I believe it should be noted in the trivia section
 * Everything about their relationship is already listed in Gaara's jinchūriki forms article. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:14, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * it kinda looks like he's just standing on him--Cerez™☺ 22:40, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

The thing is though, he's the only one physically protruding from the beast in question, I believe that is worth noting, and that isnt noted in the character description

Picture
I think that during the fight with naruto and gaara, that a picture showing shukaku head on would be more presentable Cda081799 (talk) 08:43, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Fourth Shinobi World War
When all the other beasts resealed back into their previous hosts? What happened to the Shukaku? Is it still locked up? Did Madara seal it inside of him? Are there some kind of preparations going on for him? Or was the second last host revived and turned into a host again? Or did Masashi Kishimoto forgot all about him? 119.154.12.132 (talk) 10:34, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ichibi is probably still sealed, since Tobi didn't have any previous host to put him in. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 10:44, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

One-Tailed Tanuki?
In 567, the Eight-Tails referred to Shukaku as the One-Tailed Tanuki, which closer fits the naming convention used for the other Biju. Seeing as the name Shukaku seems to be derived from from a man-made legend, would it be more accurate to rename the article and make note of it? Mohrpheus  (Talk)  16:59, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, he should be called One-Tailed Tanuki like Kyubi is Nine-Tailed Demon Fox --Elveonora (talk) 17:58, December 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Shukaku" is actually what appears to be the beast's name, not like the "Nine-Tailed Demon Fox". Before we even think of changing it though we'd require raws, the translators might have been liberal with the writing.-_Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:13, December 14, 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it that only Suna started calling him Shukaku cause they thought its a corrupted priest from legend ? I dont think Tailed Beast have actual names ... that could mean that Kyubi's name might be Bob. --Elveonora (talk) 22:51, December 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, ShounenSuki has its name as Shukaku in his translations. Joshbl56  02:22, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Kyūbi's name could very well be Bob, I myself prefer "Bonqueisha" heyyyyy.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:26, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Note that this chapter's had some pretty noticeable translation errors. For example, what is clearly a Raikari was called "Thunder Slash", and when Tobi called for the Four-Tails be unleashed, he said "Next comes the Two-Tail".--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 02:32, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Where are you reading your chapter from TheUltimate3? Joshbl56  02:40, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

He's talking about MangaStream's translation, specifically this page and this page. Skitts (talk) 02:44, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, never knew Mangastream could mess it up like that... Joshbl56  02:48, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Oh you don't know the half of it... It all seemed to start recently, because I think they started using a new translator recently. Skitts (talk) 02:52, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't think any of the current scanlation houses are any better. I mean mangastream's pretty but they lose info in transition all the time and mangareader rushes their work leaving out entire speech bubbles sometimes, terrible grammar and they even scanned Utakata out of the cover this week =_= --Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 02:57, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

I've seen others like Mangadaddy and MyMangaSpot leave out entire pages before. =/ Skitts (talk) 03:00, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, that's pretty bad. I think we should stop our this topic now since we went off topic about half way up (though it was my fault...) Joshbl56  03:03, December 15, 2011 (UTC)

Since it's now been revealed that the Tailed Beasts were all given names by the Sage of the Six Paths, so presumably that's the origin of Shukaku's name. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 06:00, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

The name
[...]but Shukaku's given name still remains unknown. <= Isn't Shukaku the given name? Seelentau 愛議 04:47, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * That was my understanding...---Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:49, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. The Shukaku's name is based off a Suna myth about a monk turned demon. If this is the beasts actual name given to it by the Sage is unknown.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 13:29, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Image from Ultimate Ninja Storm
I'm wondering if this image could be useful in this article somewhere. Maybe it would fit somewhere in Appearance. It is from Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm, and it wouldn't be the first time video game art was used. Naruto's article has the image of his younger and older self together from Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations. Diamonddeath (talk) 04:21, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * No need to use this in appearance section as we have his full appearance as his cover image, not just the face. akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 10:21, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily. The image we already have doesn't show the full body, especially the feet. In both main images (manga and anime), the lower half of Shukaku's body is hidden. This is one of the only instances that it is ever shown. That's why I thought that it could be useful as an image for the Appearance section. Diamonddeath (talk) 10:32, January 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * In the anime image only the foot part is missing - they are covered by bushes....but that doesn't seem to be an important part. The anime image of shukaku almost shows everything that isi important.....another image with the foot part is simply unnecessary. akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 10:43, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. I feel like a full body image is, if not necessary, then highly helpful. I suppose it's just a matter of preference to some degree. Diamonddeath (talk) 14:37, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Speech
Does anyone know what kind of "I" term does Shukaku use to refer itself, like 'ore', 'washi', etc? I tried looking for chapter 135 raw, but couldn't find it. KazeKitsune (talk) 20:18, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Earth Release
but i thought the shukaku was an earth release.
 * When have you seen it use Earth Release?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:46, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia assumption
"Shukaku is seen among the Tailed beasts that gave Naruto their chakra even though he was sealed away before the Fourth Shinobi World War and was never released."

For all we know the Jūbi merely saw the beasts and the Sage in Naruto symbolically. I don't see the need to jump to conclusions that it saw the Shukaku because the other bijū gave some of their chakra to Naruto.--Reliops (talk) 15:11, May 8, 2013 (UTC)Reliops

If it was symbolically, why is octopus missing?--Elveonora (talk) 15:13, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe because it already saw Gyūki in person. I don't know. It's best not assume things though.--Reliops (talk) 15:30, May 8, 2013 (UTC)Reliops


 * Yet you are assuming quite a bit in your own statement to Elve-san. I, too, found it sort of odd that Shukaku appeared with the Bijū who gave Naruto chakra, however, like with the Hokage Monument, it could just be that Kishimoto already forgot he didn't include Shukaku in that moment and added him into this scene. There is too many unknowns to make a mention of it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:30, May 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not to mention if he were simply sensing/imagining them within Naruto (Why would he though?) due to Naruto reminding him of Sage, why wouldn't he include Gyuuki? That's why it's more than likely their power he sees and not symbolic, not to mention a panel before he sees chakra all around Naruto--Elveonora (talk) 16:42, May 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out when Tobi noted something was wrong with Naruto after he was forced to reseal all his Tailed Beasts, there was an a shadow image of nine chakra tails around Naruto. One can assume they simply mean the Nine-Tails, but it also could imply that Naruto has or had at one point the chakra of all 9 tailed beasts within him, (he had the Eight-Tails when he first fought the Nine-Tails for control, he met beasts Two through Seven and got chakra from them, and I can only assume the other tailed beasts took on some of Shukaku's chakra and then passed it on to Naruto. Kurama said transferring chakra is not hard for tailed beasts.
 * However all of this is speculation so at the end of the day and unless it gets retconned out of the book version, it gets a mention.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:48, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Priest
Following what I've first said here, I think there is some misconception on this article as well. My volume brings as translation of Gaara's line in chapter 97, page 8:


 * (Gaara): The Incarnation of Sand is known as "Shukaku"... An ancient spirit protector of the Hidden Village of Sand. It was sealed inside a sacred relic before the possession.

No mentions of priests, therefore... Abe 01:50,7/7/2013
 * Abe you need to remember that what you're reading is also for better or worse a translation of the volumes. If its not coming from the raws then there's a possibility that this is also mistranslated. We can still check an see, though I think priest might also translate to spirit protector...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 02:18, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe he's aware of that. He's trying to determine which is more accurate on this point: scanlations or the Brazilian publisher's translations.
 * To add another official translation to the mix, Viz's English translation (2006 printing) is as follows:
 * Known as Shukaku, it was the spirit of a former Sunagakure elder that had been sealed inside a teakettle.
 * ~SnapperTo 08:34, July 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page. Any ways, I found the raw so we can double check.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:15, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

"Seelentau"

- 「守鶴と呼ばれ茶釜の中に封印されていた 砂隠れの老僧の生き霊だ」 "Shukaku to yobare chagama no naka ni fūinsarete ita. Sunagakure no rōsō no ikiryō da" "Called Shukaku and sealed in a tea kettle. The living spirit of an old priest of the Sand." --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 22:00, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh well ( ._.) I cannot argue against that. Hope this myth gets more clarified once the Rikudou Sennin's flashback takes place Abe 22:07,7/8/2013

Tanuki and Kitsune
In the trivia section where it talks about Tanuki's rivalry with Kitsune (Japanese mythological monsters) could we add that Kurama is maybe portrayed as the Kitsune since it means foxes, and the fact that Shukaku hates Kurama so much because of how he label their strength depending on their number of tails is probably Kishimoto hinting about the japanese mythology and the two monster's rivalry..? Gerronix12 (talk) 23:09, September 5, 2013 (UTC)

Markings.
"with black (dark blue in the anime) markings all over its face, body, and tail". Seeing as last weeks chapter says these are curse seal markings, should we change this statement to say this fact? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 23:03, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. You can say that they are a cursed seal pattern, but it's not necessary to say what they do. They're already mentioned and somewhat explained in the ability section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:13, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

two glaring errors
two things have just appeared in front of my notice, one, despite minato being unable to seal all of kurama's chakra inside of his infant son, the chiyo sealed "one whole shukaku" inside gaara with no problem. Second, despite shukakau being said to influence its jinchuriki while they sleep, and was sealed into gaara prior to his birth, baby gaara is sleeping during his birth scene with no sign or hint of shukaku being released. Anyone wanna explain that?--Caseather (talk) 04:00, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Shukaku's chakra levels are not as high as Kurama
 * 2) Shukaku is said to influence its hosts when they sleep. What good would it be to control a baby?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 04:27, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) It all comes down to Kurama always having been described as the strongest of the nine beasts, going by tails or not. Sealing it would be more difficult. Also, there's the capabilities of each individual seal, and individual skill of each shinobi performing it, but I think we both agree that Chiyo using whatever seal isn't the same as Minato, who was taught by an Uzumaki, using Uzumaki-based seals. On the other issue, Shukaku had just been sealed. The seal would be at its strongest, and for all we know, Gaara simply was conscious but not crying. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:32, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

well his eyes were closed. --Caseather (talk) 05:53, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Shukaku was sleeping too along with Gaara at the time, mystery solved.--Elveonora (talk) 07:58, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

Manga only Jinchūriki?
On Shukaku's list of Jinchūriki, Bunpuku is listed as (Manga only)... shouldn't this apply to Naruto as well, seeing as he is not Shukaku's Jinchūriki in the anime yet, or does the Manga only label apply to Bunpuku himself being a manga only character as of yet? Atrix471 (talk) 19:10, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bunpuku is automatically tagged because he's a manga only character in his infobox. I don't think we can tag the other characters, at least in that field, in a case by case the way I think you mean. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:00, April 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean, I was just checking. Atrix471 (talk) 20:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Unique Jinchuriki?
Ok so its been shown that for Shukaku's Jinchuuriki they have no Cage-like or restrictive Sealing Jutsus within their subconscious. Instead Shukaku is seen sitting or standing behind the jinchuuriki, almost in the way that Naruto or Killer Bee are when they mastered their Bijuu. It would explain why Gaara could enter Tailed Beast Mode or Summon Shukaku's Body without losing control or dieing. He was even able to use Partial transformations right off the bat. My theory is that cuz of Shukaku's unique sealing conditions (almost similar to a Perfect Jinchuriki's), explains why Gaara went into Partial Transformations straight away, instead of using the Traditional red Chakra shroud- which usually required uncontrolled rage and a beastial mindset.--Kyle Ethan (talk) 13:39, December 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Killer B and the Eight-Tails also lack a cage. I'm going to assume the prisons are entirely based on the seals used. Naruto used the Eight-Trigrams seal, Kurama was in a cage. We don't know what Kushina used, the Kurama was nailed to a giant ball of chakra. In tersm of the jinchuriki forms, it really comes down to the fact that Shukaku appeared way way early in the series, probably before Kishimoto had planned out the whole tailed beasts relation thing. It wasn't until Part II was it stated that there were 9 tailed beasts if I remember correctly. Gaara didn't lose control of his body because technically the Shukaku's body wasn't it's actual body, but a construct made of sand.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō.svg (talk) 14:02, December 18, 2014 (UTC)


 * Killer Bee and Gyuki lack a cage because Killer Bee became a Perfect Jin. When Naruto & Kurama made the "Perfect Jin" link, Naruto unlocked the Seal/ Cage. Thus, we can assume Killer Bee may have done same, or that those are the conditions for any Jinchuriki to do to be a "Perfect Jin" with their Bijuu (which is why Minato and Jiraiya left the key to Naruto). For Shukaku's Jinchuuriki, it shows they aren't bound by a Sealing Cage within. All we see are Sand Cones around them which probably has something to do with it but who knows. Even if Kishi hadn't planned the whole Tailed Beast relation thing earlier, things have to be tied up at this far point and he has left many clues (no matter how small) for speculations...which is where my assumptions come in.--Kyle Ethan (talk) 14:19, December 18, 2014 (UTC)