User talk:Axel Carnage

Hello Axel Carnage, greetings and welcome to the Narutopedia! Thanks for your edit to the User talk:Art-is-a-blast page.

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Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Dantman (Talk) 05:50, July 9, 2009

Re: Madara/Danzo
It has been up before, and then it has been removed. Until there is some good source for it, it will be removed. And spoiler chapters does not count. Jacce | Talk 06:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I understand that. However, this has nothing to do with facts or fiction. I actually put that statement there first (right after that I made an account and then Art-is-a-bang edited it). I thought I'd add it with the Obito theory because it's just a theory fans came up with (which actually is a fact), even before Danzo had any recent screen time. If you're going to edit that out, you might as well edit the Obito theory out too. Axel Carnage (talk) 06:36, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The Obito theory was more likely. Jacce | Talk 06:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't matter. It's not about what you think or anyone else thinks, it is a FACT that fans came up with an Obito theory and it is also a FACT that fans came up with a Danzo theory. Please don't base things off your own opinion. Axel Carnage (talk) 06:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the common opinion on the wiki, personally I don't believe in either. For the Obito/Tobi theory: we have the name, the pins in the uniform, only one eye. Danzo however: lacks one hand while Madara has two, Danzo protects Konoha while Madara wants to destroy it. Jacce | Talk 06:46, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh my.... You're still basing things off your opinion. And you'll see in the next chapter why I bothered to even add that theory. I'm going to re-add it once the new chapter comes out. (Holy crap I keep forgetting to add the stupid signature).Axel Carnage (talk) 06:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * 1; No, I don't have a opinion, I base it on facts. 2; that is pretty much the point of the wiki, adding info when it comes up. 3; Don't trust spoiler chapters, they have been proved to be unreliable. Jacce | Talk 06:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

My point is, you cannot do anything in the world to change the sheer fact that fans (you, I, whoever) have made theories that Danzo is Madara. It does not matter if it doesn't come from a source because it's under Past Speculation (which is where the Obito theory is which DOESN'T have any facts whatsoever, it has never said anywhere in the manga/anime that Obito was Madara) the fan-made Danzo theory is a fact itself and should be added if the Obito theory is allowed to be there. Again, it doesn't matter how likely the theory is. A theory is a theory. Axel Carnage (talk) 06:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Madara's Disguises..., Hokage. Just don't change anything in Madara's archive, those are old discussions. Jacce | Talk 07:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if a theory is a theory. We aren't a comprehensive resource of theories. Fans create theories, just like fans create shipping, just because someone says they have a theory doesn't in any way make it notable enough to be put in a speculation section, just like how we don't list shipping because any shipping anyone says exists, does the moment they say it. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 9, 2009 @ 16:40 (UTC)

That is the most hypocritical thing I have ever heard. Why in the hell do you have an Obito theory if you're not "comprehensive resource of theories"? You are a hypocrite unless you either add the Madara/Danzo theory under the Obito one or edit out the Obito theory completely.Axel Carnage (talk) 00:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious? You would include speculation FROM FANS on a wikipedia page and not a SPOILER PAGE WHICH IS A HINT FROM THE AUTHOR! You would be banned from any other wiki for such ignorance! The Obito/Tobi speculation if anything should be removed, and every spoiler page fact put in! This is a wikipedia! SKEPTICISM IS LAW HERE! Madarake (talk) 00:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Why "in the hell" would including one or two small notes about past theories which were very popular until the manga revealed the facts that confirmed or denied them. People speculated that Pain was Kushina's father, or an Uchiha, but we don't list those. We don't even go into detail about the speculation, every edit adding detail on the Obitobi speculation has been removed. Fans make as much speculation as they do shipping, but you don't see any huge list of those here, I say it again "We aren't a comprehensive resource of theories". Obitobi was a popular founded speculation with points based on facts that were hard to object to up till Tobi was revealed as Madara, and the speculation still persists despite that. And so we include a small note in the article to even it out. The Danzo theory is another wild theory there are dozens of which is founded only by loose connections and wild possibilities not backed by facts. We get dozens of edits adding speculation, we revert them, we only add speculation sections when something had a heavy popularity and a number of the editors feel that despite being false the theory is notable enough for a small note in the article. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 10, 2009 @ 02:43 (UTC)

The Obitobi crap was just a wild theory as well. This damned silly Danzo Uchiha crap actually has evidence, although I don't believe it, it deserves as much mention as the Obitobi crap if not more for it's evidence. Pure fan speculation is silly nonsense, but when there is damned direct evidence - http://anime-and-manga.info/naruto-455-raw-naruto-455-spoiler/ - even if there is a quarter's chance of being fake it's considered data! Speculatory crap is never considered data. Wikipedia is for data. Madarake (talk) 12:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Now that chapter 455 is out, it proves that the spoilers were accurate. I still don't think it would be a deadly sin to add "Some people also believe that Danzo could be Madara because of appearances.....etc". Honestly, it's not going to effect anything.... Axel Carnage (talk) 20:06, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

There are still no proof that they are the same person. We will wait and see what happens. Jacce | Talk 20:08, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear christ...it's just a damn theory, proof doesn't freaking matter. Just forget it, negotiating with you is pointless. Axel Carnage (talk) 20:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

There is no f*cking proof of Obitobi either you moron! Forget this, I'm done wasting my time with such an ignoramus. -.- Madarake (talk) 20:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Axel Carnage, you're free to ignore hostile comments like the ones Madarake made. But the fact is that this wiki goes by concensus, especially on topics like speculation. No matter how much you argue one on one here it's not going to change the fact that current concensus is a note on Obitobi in the page, and Danzo theory doesn't belong, if you don't like that, you're going to have to change concensus by getting others of the community to agree with rationales on why the Danzo theory also deserves a note in the article. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 10, 2009 @ 20:25 (UTC)

Re: Locked?
Alright, alright...whatever. Did you lock me from editing Madara's section? Can you please unlock me? I'd like to add something to Trivia (not about Danzo). Axel Carnage (talk) 20:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that's not something specific to you, that's page protection. Jacce protected the page, it looks like there's been a lot of reverting in the article. Jacce has the protection set on autoconfirmed and it expires on the 17th. The system doesn't let us make per-user exceptions to page protection, but you can make notes on the talkpage and someone who can edit can add that info to the page. Or you could wait, you'll be able to edit after your account gets autoconfirmed status (which I believe happens 4 days after you created your account), that should happen even before the 17th when the protection disappears, from the looks of it either tomorrow or the day after that. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 10, 2009 @ 20:56 (UTC)

Ok. Axel Carnage (talk) 21:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Madara
Both were mentioned as founders in the past, the co-founder was sort of the way to comprise over it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:41, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Madara's Sharingan
I'm not the only one who reverted that, but to answer your question, Madara's words don't necessarily mean that. It can very well mean that he'll simply kill her after he finds out where the Rinnegan is, that the only reason she's still alive is so that he can get that information. Also, no genjutsu shown in the manga has ever killed anyone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:07, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hinata was stabbed similarly to Konan, and she remained alive for quite a while until someone found her and healed her. It doesn't matter how powerful the genjutsu is. We've seen Tsukuyomi many times now, said to be the most powerful genjutsu, and how many people has it killed? None. Controlling Yagura with genjutsu translates into nothing as far as genjutsu killing potential goes. Controlling isn't killing, you're trying to compare apples and oranges. Izanagi is a genjutsu that is used on oneself rather than on others. Her eyes closing can just as easily mean slipping into a genjutsu trance, or merely unconscious. As far as the manga goes, genjutsu has never killed anyone. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:32, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * All I saw in your last comment was "Madara is badass". So what? Just because he is, it doesn't mean he has to do things. Itachi says Madara's a shell of his former self. Madara kinda says this as well when he says his wounds from the battle with Hashirama were so deep. Until he or some other reliable source outright states he killed Konan using only genjutsu, we don't. Whenever something is ambiguous, there are two things we do here: either leave it out until it's further clarified, or if possible, word it in a way that shows the ambiguity. For example, before the fanbook came out confirming that Storm Release was indeed Lightning Release and Water Release, everything was worded in a way indicating that the information wasn't confirmed because there were so many other things indicating it. That's not the case here. I am looking at what's in front of me, I'm just also considering other facts from the manga, something you seem not to be doing. Considering the information at hand, saying Madara killed Konan with a genjutsu is too speculative to be in the article, as well as potentially wrong. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:07, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * You just lost all the credibility you had built up with me when you resorted to name calling, but for now I'll overlook that, because you're by bar the person who tried the most to properly argue your point when it was contested I can recall. You also think that scanlation translations are infallible when they're not. The literal evidence isn't the scanlation, but the raw. This is precisely the reason why I told you above that we either word it to show ambiguity, or we don't mention at all. The single translations I'll always trust are ShounenSuki's, so your best chance to convince me is with one of his translations, showing, again, unambiguously, that Madara killed with a genjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:57, July 16, 2011 (UTC)