Talk:Rasengan

Asura
(This is probably on another talkpage or something but screw it). Thanks to the sh!tty anime filler, we're in a bit of a bind. Asura used a technique that looks like a Rasengan, works like a Rasengan, sounds like the Rasengan, probably even smells like the Rasegan and may allegedly be the Rasengan. While Asura potentially using the Rasengan comes in direct conflict with the fact that it was canonically established that Minato invented the technique, another argument was also brought up that Asura using this technique happened only in the anime, and is technically non-canon. So, the question is, should Asura be listed or not listed as a user of the Rasengan? 01:09, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bumping so this doesn't get drowned from my current mass editing spree. 01:37, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * List Asura as anime only user. Anime does not override established canon facts. Sometimes the first person to do this and to do that is also proven false as the series progresses, for example, Itachi said that Madara was the first one to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan but later on in series we find out that Indra also awakened the swirly pattern MS before him, here canon overrides canon. Since we are documenting both manga and anime we have to mention them, Asura's orb looks like Rasengan variant and Indra's lightning has chirping sound so he used chidori variant.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 02:04, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Technically, Itachi said Madara was the first Uchiha to awaken MS, if I'm not mistaken. Indra predates the Uchiha, so Itachi was still technically right. I see no issue listing Asura as an anime-only Rasegan user, but I don't recall Indra's Lightning Release having the Chidori chirp in it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:46, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh okay. And about Indra's Lightning release there was Chidori chirp when he killed his two followers. I compared the sounds of 3 video clips and they matched Sasuke's Chidori sound. Hagoromo's Lightning release has sparking sound not like Chidori, so Hagoromo doesn't have it and Indra has it.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 13:41, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * Techniques can appear identical and still be different techniques. Take Water Release: Water Trumpet & Water Release: Wild Water Wave for example. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 03:55, July 24, 2016 (UTC)

I see everyone to not list Asura as a user, anime-only or not, why because is the manga, anime and databook, it all said Minato was the sole creator. Damn anime adaptors messing up yet again. --Rai 水 (talk) 04:02, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not listing Asura as a user is like removing all non-Uchiha users of Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique, since canon dictates that is an Uchiha-only jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:05, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Mmm hmmm. Well we also don't know if that is even the Rasengan. We could just mention Asura using a similar technique to the Rasengan in the trivia and show the image. --Rai 水 (talk) 05:04, July 24, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bump. 15:44, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * He should be listed as a user. It may not have been named as a Rasengan, but it looks like one, is formed like one and sounds like one. I thought we had the whole "anime/movie/manga" only tags in the infobox precisely for when things like this happened, why aren't we using them? --Sajuuk 17:01, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps because Asura having Rasengan makes no sense whatsoever? At least by having a mention in the trivia we anknowledge that Asura used something similiar to Rasengan in the anime. Let us not be as lazy and incompetent as Studio Pierrot, okay? --JouXIII (talk) 17:11, July 27, 2016 (UTC)
 * I also support the option of keeping this Asura's "Rasengan" as a trivia point without adding him as a user. We can't even call his jutsu a Rasengan for sure, even if it looks like one, its actual use and function really differ from what we've seen from the regular Rasengan before. It's a messy case, so I think trivia is the best possible option to keep the info in the article, but avoid the confusion of Asura preceding Minato, Rasengan's long-established creator, in using it. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 17:35, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

So is everyone or most in agreement to put that Asura uses a similar technique as the Rasengan in the trivia section of the respective page instead listing him a user of it, and more so the creator, which contradicts well quite a lot. --Rai 水 (talk) 17:03, July 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I just stumbled across this but I believe he should be listed as an anime only user of the Rasengan. The fact is, it happened and the technique Asura used is by definition and functionally the same as the Rasengan. There's a lot of non-canon things that have been added on other articles, even more bizarre things from the movies and filler arcs. And for that reason, Asura should be listed as an anime only user of the Rasengan. General Heed (talk) 19:31, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except, again, Asura has nothing to do with Rasengan. As stated in both manga and databooks, it is Minato that created Rasengan, and that's centuries after Asura. Asura having it doesn't make sense whatsoever and is against canon so much it isn't funny. Trivia point is more than enough. So again, let us not be as lazy and incompetent as Studio Pierrot, okay? --JouXIII (talk) 20:10, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned before, this is similar to the "first MS user" situation. Itachi said Madara and Izuna were the first Uchiha to awaken MS. He is technically correct, as Indra, while a MS user, was not an Uchiha. To me, what Asura used was clearly a Rasengan, though not named as such at the time, and the jutsu was simply redeveloped by Minato, Asura's use simply being forgotten to history, in the anime only of course. Chidori and Lightning Cutter are both considered Kakashi's original jutsu, though chronologically, what the Third Raikage did is functionally and conceptually the same thing, just stronger. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:18, August 10, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, Indra and Uchiha clan are at least related, unlike Asura and Minato. Also, trying to justify lazy and incompetent writing of Studio Pierrot will only make us look like lazy and incompetent and I would like to think we're better than that. So again, trivia point is more than enough. --JouXIII (talk) 21:40, August 10, 2016 (UTC)

Regardless of whether it is or isn't technically a Rasengan, shouldn't Asura's technique be given its own article? Appearance aside, its use is very distinct from a normal Rasengan, far more so than a lot of variants that do have proper names and articles.--BeyondRed (talk) 03:22, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Wait, it is just a technique not a Kekkei Genkai to be related to some ancestor vis-à-vis Sharingan, the problem only arose if you think about the first user, if you don't take that into consideration then there is no point in discussing it. Rasengan can be created by almost all ninjutsu user with some training of course. Asura used it so he qualifies to be listed as a user. We have anime-only tag for this purpose.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 11:35, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * The problem is, we HAVE to think about first user of Rasengan, who is Minato as a creator of it according to both manga and databooks. Just because Studio Pierrot decided to screw up things royally, doesn't mean we have to screw up things too. So again, trivia point is more than enough. --JouXIII (talk) 13:04, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why the hell are you so obsessed about hating everything the anime does? It's getting absolutely ridiculous, every discussion you post in results in a hate-bashing against the anime.
 * All you are doing is hindering this wiki from recording the information presented to us. It is not unknown for techniques to have been created by people long ago, forgotten for all time and then rediscovered by someone else. You are using early information from Part 1 as though it's some sort of way to invalidate what the anime has shown us: which is that Asura used the Rasengan.
 * Just because you like living in denial of the anime changing some details of the series (which it is perfectly entitled to do, it is not a direct 1:1 of the manga and it never was) does not mean you get to tell us how to record the events depicted in the series. We get it, you hate the anime, stop letting your own bias against the anime get in the way as to how things are recorded here.
 * Getting back on topic: Asura should be listed. He used a technique that fundamentally looks, sounds and acts like a Rasengan. The only thing we are doing by not including it is what JouXIII keeps accusing us of being if we include it. --Sajuuk 13:13, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * "Changed some details"? Studio Pierrot added things out of nowhere and without explanation. Not only that's lazy and incompetent, it also insults the intelligence of the viewers, so if you have no problem that Studio Pierrot thinks you as brainless sheep, that will swallow anything, fine. Just don't let it affect the quality of this wiki. I would like to believe we're better than Studio Pierrot.
 * Also, there's already triva point that anknowledges Asura using Rasengan-like technique(which, by the way, does NOT work like regular Rasengan)
 * Finally, manga and databooks > anime and both manga and databooks says that Minato created Rasengan, not Asura. --JouXIII (talk) 13:49, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
 * You have to think that this episode came after manga and databooks were released, and I agree that Kaguya arc had lot of errors but since we are documenting anime events also this should also be included. The director of anime said that he took help of Kishimoto, but that's not the point the point is Asura used a sphere containing Rasengan which is a variation of Rasengan, some users have unique Rasengan (take Boruto for example), if you remove him as a user it sounds like he is incapable of using a Rasengan which is the opposite.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 13:57, August 15, 2016 (UTC)