Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180831085741

LegionZero wrote:

1 Im not equating them. I was pointing out the differences and which one signifies which.

I gave you the manga’ established differences here: Hag0r0m0 0htsutsuki wrote: I don’t have to speculate about Naruto eyes for frog sage mode. I can point to the exact moment where manga establishes to look at his eye for proof of sagehood. Similarly I can point out to you the exact moment in the manga where madara acknowledges proof of Naruto rikudo sagehood. They were proven in different ways, that is fact. Attempting to prove them in the same way results in Fallacy. Manga nor databook has any mention of Naruto’ eyes being even slightly relevant to rsm. Yet against you better judgement you insist it does. Show me where it is explicitly stated that his eye have any relevance to rsm. The same way I can prove it for his other form. Just a heads up, rikudo senjutus didn’t effect Obito’ nor madara eyes, but good luck.

LegionZero wrote: 2 Naruto's eyes are relivent to SPSM because its the only time they ever take that color and pattern. It wasnt explicitly stated but it was explicitely shown. No other time do his eyes have that color and pattern. The databook a picture of Naruto when he kicked the TSB while in SPSM.

Madara mentions that Naryto came back different and Naruto turns around with his new eye pattern and says that he can feel everything. Which is an attribute of SPSM This is wrong again. You admittedly are interpreting a shown image without context, you’re guessing. I’m not. The eyes have no proven significance. On top of all that, you failed to realize that Naruto saved guy using his rikudo hand seal. That power is not part of rsm, and that’s what madara was initially reacting to. Madara even looked at guy’ 8th gate and noticed how it managed to be preserved. Again that was done by Naruto using the rikudo seal not rsm. That power relied on rikudo chakra not rikudo senjutsu, there is a clear difference. Iirc, the seals were explained on different pages in the databook.

LegionZero wrote: Obito and Madara had dojutsu that that overide other eyes. They also awakened their powers through a different process.

But please do tell when anyone had yellow, crass patterned eyes for any other reason

Now you’re just speculating. For one, regardless of how you attain rikudo senjutsu/ juubi chakra, with enough of it the result will always be the same. Obito, madara, hagoromo, and kaguya each gained a significant amount juubi chakra through different methods, yet the same powers resulted from it. So you’re wrong.

LegionZero wrote: It does not say that. It says that kicking the TSB is a feat pulled off by having more chakra than KCM. Hagoromo gave him 6 Paths chakra, which provides a boost strong enough to bring Sasuke to Madara's level. This boost would apply to Naruto as well who already has more chakra than Sasuke. Then Naruto uses SPSM which has an even greater boost than regular Sage Mode. You’ve restated counter 1 from the OP.

LegionZero wrote: This point is disproven when all 6 literally came back to him later on. They didnt form. They moved to him. All he would have to do is wait for them to fall back down to him because he didnt move from his spot. So your rebuttal is that TSOs, whos natural state is to be suspended in mid air, will somehow succumb to gravity? You have to know that isn’t accurate, right? Iirc madara had to extend his hand call his last TSOs from a distance away to throw it at guy.

LegionZero wrote: That is pure speculation. The only time this ever happened was with Obito. Anyone whos spirit manifested through chakra was identicle to their appearence at the time of death (Kushina, Minato, Hagoromo, Hamura). So then I guess ashura(and indra) died really young, since they were shown clinging to Naruto(and Sasuke).

LegionZero wrote: That doesnt matter because its not necissary to have Juubi chakra for TSB, SPSM is. Hamura never had Juubi chakra but his own set of TSB that followed him into death as well. There’s is no way to prove you’re claim wrong nor right. I could easy make a similar claim to support my own stance. Hamura and his descendants have powers of unexplained origin. You can‘t use them here because of that uncertainty.

LegionZero wrote: This was never stated. Hagoromo said he could manifest because Madara recreated his chakra. It was never ever stated he got TSB by making new ones from Madara's body. They manifested because Hagoromo retained them in death. This was shown. It was also shown with Hamura You missed the part where hagoromo explicated states more than his own chakra is required for him to reenter the living world. Madara’ torso both met and exceeded those requirements. Yet he was still weakened because he gave his power to Naruto and Sasuke. Which further proves that those TSO being produced were largely due to juubi chakra that he just acquired from madara. As rikudo chakra alone doesn’t produce TSOs, if that were true madara would’ve gotten it the moment he awakened rinnegan. As that was a result of achieving recreated rikudo chakra. Also edo madara would’ve gained TSOs as kabuto made him also achieve ‘fake’ rinnegan. So you’re wrong.

LegionZero wrote: Kaguya has abilities that Madara didnt. Creating brand new TSB is unique to her

Unless you are trying to say Madara had Byakugan, Ash Bone, Dimensional travel and every other one of Kaguya's powers. Which he didnt.

You’re wrong again because kaguya could only be revived with the juubi’ power. She literally took over his vessel, and absorbed some chakra from infinite tsukuyomi. Not to mention she remained massively weakened because half her chakra was still missing. This is because she was revived entirely without hamura chakra, she was without more than half of her divided power during the 4th war. Yet she still produced a TSO variant. Which we know isn’t possible with chakra from the those captured by infinite tsukuyomi, but rather the juubi’ chakra.

LegionZero wrote: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vestige

I’m not having an issue with the definition. The issue here is the lack of context, which is evident that you have. I’m not leaving anything to interpretation, nor does the OP operate in vagueness. No instead I’ve provided sources, and evidence to my statements. So while I do appreciate the link, that doesn’t help you gain context to further understand which definition is most fitting. This is why I suggested giving example of vestiges that are similar to that which describes the former biju fragments. Did you think of any? I gave 2 examples.