Board Thread:Theories and Speculation/@comment-45510280-20200416210937/@comment-1207741-20200429043724

Squinty97 wrote: @Snapper2 What I'm saying really is that this feat from the novel is inconsistent in motivation and mechanics and character/power portrayal. Yes, it was never shown in the manga or anime, but even if it did show up, the feat itself makes little sense when we consider Itachi's motivations and what he wanted to accomplish.

But the argument that you were mainly discussing is the one about me saying that the feat was not repeated in any other media. This particular argument was one I made simply because it reinforced the other; as in, it didn't make sense in terms of character motivations and abilities (my other posts go more into depth about it), and the feat was never shown despite the manga and anime both constantly going back and repeating information as well as expanding. It was more of a combination of factors, not just the fact that the manga and anime didn't include it.

In terms of you saying that Itachi's usage of Tsukuyomi should satisfy whatI said about expanding on a power with a feat, I disagree. Itachi's usage of Tsukuyomi there was so far beyond the regular usage that it seems more like an outlier, and due to the other factors I mentioned, again makes me see it as less valid.

Idk if I caught every argument. Actually I probably haven't, there's a lot to read lol. Sorry if I missed an important one, feel free to remind me and I'll give my take. I've read some of these points when you and others expressed them before. I've had thoughts about them, which I'll bulletpoint in a moment. But I want to preface this by saying that I'm not interested in this particular aspect of the discussion, so there's a good chance I won't pick up this part again. But maybe you and/or others will find something to debate between yourselves. Anyway: But as I said, I'm not interested in any of this, so I'll split it off.
 * Prior to chapter 590, almost all flashbacks pertaining to the Uchiha were from Sasuke's perspective, with the occasional retelling of Tobi sprinkled in. 590 was the first time Itachi's perspective was given. Ergo, for most of the series there would have been no grounds to depict any relationship that Itachi may or may not have had with Izumi.
 * A manga chapter is limited to 17 pages. Economy of space is a far greater issue in the manga than the anime. With that in mind, would it have been a good use of space to introduce Izumi? Based strictly on how her relationship with Itachi is depicted in the novels (ie. un-reciprocated/one-sided), no it would not. Would it have been worth introducing her in order to explore this new use of Tsukuyomi? That's a lot of pages to dedicate to something that doesn't have much overarching plot significance. Would it have been worth showing how Izumi dies as a demonstration of Itachi's good heart? 590 does have his final conversation with his parents and him crying while killing them; I'd argue that's an equally deep depiction of his compassion, one that also doesn't require a lot of new information.
 * Tsukuyomi has been demonstrated to be escapable/endurable to Sharingan users: Kakashi doesn't immediately collapse after experiencing it; Part II Sasuke even breaks out of it. Perhaps Itachi feared Tobi would also be able to escape its effects, in which case Amaterasu was a more reliable way of killing him. Or, if we assume Tsukuyomi only kills by tricking the brain into thinking it's at the end of its natural lifespan, would that have been something Itachi could do? Could he concoct an illusion that would convince Tobi's brain to let his body die of old age? Probably not. I don't remember how seriously Itachi believes Tobi to be Madara in the manga, but let's pretend he does believe it: as soon as Obito found himself living the life of Madara Uchiha, he would know it was genjutsu and the trick would be spoiled. Or, let's pretend that Itachi had doubts about Tobi's identity: how is he to construct a fictional life for a person who is an enigma to him, whose goals and motivations he has only limited knowledge of? Again, Amaterasu is the safer choice.
 * As for why Itachi wouldn't have killed Tobi on any number of previous occasions, that's a perilous thought process to follow. If you're going to ask why character X didn't do Y at Z time, then the series quickly falls apart. Why did Kakashi make hypnotic suggestions to Zabuza instead of knocking him out with Genjutsu: Sharingan? Why did Kakashi take the time to monologue Zabuza from a tree when he could have used Lightning Cutter immediately? Why, if his goal was to protect Tazuna and his students, would he waste time and chakra playing water clone tag with Zabuza for so long? And so on. A work of fiction necessitates that you not dwell for too long on the things a character doesn't do unless the fictional work itself chooses to dwell on things a character doesn't do.

What I am interested is your criteria for what material you'll consider in discussions. You are of course free to make your personal definition of "canon" as convoluted as you please. But for the sake of discussion with other people, it's very burdensome. If you're going discuss a work you need to grant it some level of authority strictly by virtue of its existence; you can't place additional demands for corroboration or reinforcement on it because its word isn't good enough. Or, well, you can, but that defeats the purpose.

And this narrowing of material also creates unneeded barriers in debating the series with others, which I assume is your goal when participating in these discussions. To use my language example from before: you are not simply saying to people that you will only use French in a discussion. You are saying you will only use French that has been approved by the Académie Française and that received said approval no later than 1900 and that is taught in Québécois schools by age 15 and that don't contain the letter G. Which is a lot to ask of someone.

If you want to discuss something - for fun - you should really consider loosening your requirements. To restrict yourself to only the anime is one thing, but to only accept certain types of filler depending on whether or not you feel it's consistent with the manga unless it was something that the manga didn't bother with and that also can't be said to be important although maybe it is important just not to you? Yes, that's a lot. I don't see how you can have a discussion with somebody if you're going to gate off material arbitrarily.

For the sake of argument, which, again, I assume is your goal, you should be willing to entertain things more, play along in order to participate. Nobody's asking that you accept the novels into your personal Naruto universe, but if you're going to enter into a discussion about the novels, you need to take them as they are for the purposes of that discussion.