Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-26107879-20181004003653/@comment-6769189-20181203064058

Ninja Of War wrote: @Legion

It's not reaction when you know exactly what your opponent is gonna do, plan a counter and time it perfectly. Knowing is half the battle. When/where was it stated that Obito planned on wasting time by having Minato take a swing at him while he snuck up behind him to warp him away with Kamui? When has Obito EVER made it a part of his plan to get cought sneaking up behind an enemy to warp them away?

Ninja Of War wrote:

The second instance, Minato needed to confirm his hypothesis. He needed confirmation to determine when to strike. And he could have done so by throwing a kunai or using a shadow clone instead of putting humself in unnecessary danger.

Ninja Of War wrote:

Flinging projectiles while Obito phases through all the time is effective? No. Minato needed to land a physical hit to win. So, he needed to figure out when/if Obito would solidify and work around that. Minato wouldn't learn about that by just throwing projectiles. Shadow clone.

Ninja Of War wrote:

Minato prefers to use hand-signs when not in combat. 4SWW? Minato weaved a sign for shadow clone outside of combat, which he then teleported for FTG slash. It was war. They were in the middle of the battlefield and made a shadow clone to take part in combat. He wasnt in the middle of a fight but Minato had time to cast a shadow clone to test Obito since they werent engaging in hand-to-hand.

Ninja Of War wrote:

FTG Kuama's TBB? Good point there, although Minato did not actually engage Kurama yet, so is that really combat? Really? Minato making the 1st move to confront Kurama and his attack isnt engaging him?

Ninja Of War wrote:

Reaper Death Seal? Kurama was already restrained then, so not combat. Tell that to the fatal injury he sustained 5 seconds after casting it. The battle wasnt over since Kushina was barely concsious and struggling to hold Kurama back.

Ninja Of War wrote:

LOL, I think we went off topic here. Back on topic now? O yes. Kakashi called Chidori fast and Minato says it makes him fast in chapter 240 so that should be the end of the discussion.

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero, Those hand sign instances you sighted can be debunked because I can simply argue the signs were too fast to be seen just like you are claiming, and just like I already said in my previous. The writer doesn't always show them for cinematic purposes unless it's needed for the plot. Absolutely not. If it wasnt stated/shown to have happened then it didnt happen.

The manga has shown that a user can reduce or even eliminate the need for hand signs for a technique if they are skilled enough in using it.

It has also shown that characters who are low on chakra need hand signs to perform jutsu they otherwise wouldnt need signs for.

There are very few times in the series where no signs are shown without a character explaining they are just super fast at it.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

In the sasuke vs deidara instance, sasuke could have easily placed his sword in his armpit before casting the seals. Sasuke could have moved his hand and then placed it back on the ground. Killer bee wasn't stated to require handsigns for his lightning release technique though. So Sasuke went from a vulnerable position to upright so that he could weave signs so that he could lay back down in a vulnerable position to activate Chidori to get back upright to flow it into the sword while Bee who was already shown to be faster than Sasuke was cutting through said sword to kill him.... right....

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Obito kept up in combat speed due to sharingan, incredible reflexes, and kamui, and knowledge on minato's abilities, nothing more nothing less. Nothing says he was as fast in running speed. You say nothing more nothing less but Obito was able to tag Minato using combat speed twice and Minato wasnt shown to move faster than Obito at any point in the fight.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

As Ninja of War already explained, it's impossible for minato to have analyzed kamui the first time aroundbecause he was clearly suprised by it. He simply observed, and that was the begininning of his analysis. Simply observed? His breakdown was literally written on the page. If Kakashi can figure out Domu after one look and figure out what he needs to do to beat it then Minato can do the same.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

During round 2, Minato was analyzing kamui and obito's fighting style. The proof is on Chapter 502 pg 13, Minato confirms obito's fighting style and he is confident in how kamui works enough to reveal his FTG level 2 trump card. If round 2 was about analysis he wouldnt have rushed in himself and then let himself get cought in the chains. He has at least 3 safer and even more effective options if his goal was just analysis.

He thought he was fast enough to get the kill and he was wrong.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lmao what? OBito wasn't screwing around. Project Tsykuyomi was on the line. Obito was screwing around. He was also fighting all 4 of them for next like, 8 chapters with 0 struggle. Even if his plan was "on the line", he was fighting the strongest the Alliance had to offer and he was handling them all by himself with little effort.

Ch 473 p 3: after Seeing Naruto use TBB and TBM, Obito states than Naruto is nothing more than a pawn to him and that he knows the limits of his power and that he wouldnt break a sweat against him.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Chapter 595 pg 10, Obito says to Guy "I'll start with you". Guy stalemated him in CQC, fair and square. Stalemate? Guy got one good counter in before Naruto intervened.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Obito wasn't zipping around him because he is not as fast as you think he is. Why throw shurikens at him when he can rofl blitz guy according to you on Chapter 595 pg 9. Because he needed to put a bit of distance between himself and Naruto who was holding a mini-TBB right behind him. He was also mid-air.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Let Guy come in close then run a circle around him into his blindspot and warp him away. Because Naruto was right there with a mini-TBB

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Obito was stated to be capable of defeating anyone of them with a single touch lmao. Even if Obito is significantly faster than guy, The characters don't always use their top speed. You keep referring to this like its a 1-v-1 but Obito has to make sure hes not leaving himself open to an attack from 3 other characters.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

In fact, the fact that obito is always impressed by minato's bodyflicker (such as when minato rescued naruto before obito can stab the baby naruto, minato using his body flicker after warping to kushina and running on top of a nearby tree to avoid kurama's palm) would suggest he isn't as fast as minato. Being impressed=/=inferiority. If so, then Sasuke surpassed Kakashi in the bell test and surpassed Guy in the Chunnin exams.

Minato rescued Kushina from Kurama and impressed Obito but could body flicker before getting hit by Obito's chain. HMMMMM

CombatIQmatters wrote:

So you concede that naruto doesn't always use his top speed in a serious battle. He felt the combination attack with sasuke was worth more than using his top speed, which is the whole point. You can't just say that the characters always use their top speed 24/7 unless you can be sure of their mindset and all the other variables involved, aka PHYSICS and TUNNEL VISION. I dont understand this argument. So because Naruto had to lower his speed in this specific instance in order to cooporate and strategize with a character who is slower than him against an enemy with almost totally unknown powrrs means that Minato who had already seen Obito's abilities wasnt using his top speed?

Worst decontextualization i have seen all month.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol no, who cares that the other jins can see him. The point is, if kcm naruto uses his top speed, roshi can't react to him, and neither can any of the other jins. It doesn't matter that they have shared vision. the characters don't always use their top speed. Clearly not. He showed no problem dodging and countering them 1-on-1 but when they ganged up on him he got rocked.

Even Minato got tagged by Bee because Bee took advantage of his outside perspective and being out of Minato's line of sight so dont even act like speed is enough to handle multiple opponents under the circumstances Naruto was presented with.

Kaguya got tagged by Sakura of all people because she got ganged up on by characters who were all slower than her.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

We see naruto using his top speed to slap away bijuu damas that would have vaporized both guy and kakashi. he used his top speed there because bijuu damas can't "counter attack" like people can, so there was no risk, and when he uses that speed the characters always compare his running speed to the yellow flash's running speed. There were only 7 characters who could have attacked him in that moment but whatever.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol, even after killer bee cleared the forest, naruto wasn't seen using his top speed. We see him opting to block attacks instead of "running circles" like you are claiming would happen if there is a huge speed difference. Like I said, be consistent. Either concede he doesn't always use his top speed or then you are arguing all those V2 jins are as fast as kcm naruto, and by extension, 6 gates guy is as fast as kakashi and they are both as fast as kcm naruto. I suggest you read that again. The 1st thing that happened after clearly in the forest was Narutogetting knocked off balance then smacked around before he could regain his footing.

Then Obito comments about how 2-v-6 was too much of a disadvantage for Naruto and Bee. The manga right here confirms it wasnt the stats that put Naruto at a disadvantage.

I really dont know why Guy you bringing up Guy and Kakashi's speed here..

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol. obito wasn't running circles against Fuu and torune, therefore by your logic Fuu and torune are as fast as minato lmao. Obito punked them by doing what he always does, phase through attacks, and then materializing to counter attack. He sneaked up on insect boy from behind and warped him away. He used a feint to disract mind transfer boy and then warped him away by coming out of the ground. Why would he need to run circles around them?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Also, not how tunnel vision works. Apparently thats how it works in Naruto considering characters who have achieved their speed through training can reach speeds far above real life human perceptions and be just fine.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Minato is a literal speed demon. Even for his reflexes, running at his absolute top speed would still cause tunnel vision, Until the manga states that he has this problem then this is your headcanon.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Minato vs raikage and bee? When did minato ever use his running speed in that fight lol? He used FTG the whole time. I didnt say he used his running speed. My point i was trying to make was that he did t know anything about their abilities and went straight for kills/checkmates. No reason to believe it was different after he had already seen Obito's phasing ability, especially since he went in for an attack himself rather than using safer, more effective methods to test/analyze/observe/guage Obito.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

V1 ayy wasn't necesaarily using his top speed against sasuke there, so debunked. Then he wouldnt have bothered using V2...

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Obito vs kabuto Chapter 489 pg 18-19. Where is obito's yellow flash speed? With that speed he would be able to blitz base kabuto with ease since according to you the characters use their top speed to blitz always. kabuto wouldn't have even had time to weave a single hand seal with that speed coming at him. That wasnt a fight. Obito was shown to have traveled much further than Kabuto had so we already know he is faster. He didnt know about Kabuto's upgrades so its very likely he underestimated him and once Kabuto started using Edo Tensei, killing him would have been a bad idea.