Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34700383-20180829185752/@comment-34700383-20180905015055

Vladosaurus wrote: Hold on, Naruto's healing is because of yin-yang release and SPSM, not because of the sun seal.

The data book for the six paths yang seal makes no mention of this "healing" power, yet this is mention in yin-yang release.After gaining SPSM Naruto gained yin-yang release, and in combination with the 2, he able to use his healing. Juubi chakra grants yin yang release. Naruto achieved this prior to entering rsm. Naruto was already increasing his level of this power when he healed guy and dodged limbo as explained in the OP. All his ensuing healing feats happened post entering rsm, meaning he had even greater levels of this power. Rikudo senjutsu was always present, just in different amounts. Which proves hagoromo didn’t give rikudo senjutsu to him, he produced that power using the biju chakra. The novel even confirms that by having those 9 biju Naruto was basically a juubi jinchuriki.

CombatIQmatters wrote: @Hagoromo

I read the OP. Hagoromo changed the rules when he gave naruto ridoku sage mode. All we know is that he gave him the ability to use it without relying on the bijuu chakra. You aren't understanding me, and it's not your fault, the terminology is very confusing to me.

I can prove you are misunderstanding me, whereas I understand you: 1.You are saying that rsm requires ridoku senjutsu specifically from the 9 tailed beasts inside of him, when there is no proof of that. Naruto was using it without any bijuu cloak. Technically though, if you believe that hagormo got his six paths senjutsu not through learning but by stealing juubi chakra from kaguya during their fight, then technically it still traces back to the juubi, but in this case it was given through hagoromo.

2. you are saying that rsm requires ridoku senjutsu. True, but no one said that hagoromo wasn't capable of providing this to naruto himself. why can't the chakra greater than kurama be hagoromo's chakra himself?

3. you are saying that hagoromo gave him the mode, but he can only enter it under the condition that he has the chakra of all 9 bijuu within him. But this is redundant. all 9 bijuu inside of him would have already satisfied the condition of granting him six paths senjutsu, allowing him to use truth seeking orbs and giving him the modified bijuu cloak. so hagormo's rsm buff was something separate.

4. You are saying that naruto was kneading chakra and building up to getting his bijuu cloak. That's a fine theory, but it could just as easily be that ridoku sage mode is an independent buff. He already had 6 paths senjutsu from being gifted it by hagoromo, just like sasuke was gifted hag's 6 paths chakra allowing him to accelerate the development of his rinnegan.

In conclusion, All I'm saying is that naruto got two separate buffs. He got half of hagoromo's chakra which gave him 6 paths senjutsu and the ability to use 6 paths sage mode (Again, independent of bijuu chakra), then having all 9 bijuu gave him the modified kurama cloak plus truth seeking orbs.

Well, I would have to do more spot checking, but where it was stated or shown that he isn't using six path sage mode in boruto or the movies?? I believe the eyes have relevance because well, they look like sage mode eyes. Isn't it reaching a bit to say that the eyes have no connection at all to his six paths age mode? It isn't frog sage mode, he didn't have a kurama cloak at the time, so if you rule those out, what else is left exactly? By your logic, he shouldn't have been able to kick away the tso because he wasn't in rsm yet at the time.

Hagoromo did not change any rules, nor did kishimoto(by implication). Hagoromo also didn’t give Naruto power to use without the biju. Everything hagoromo gave Naruto during the war was used with help from the biju. Rsm needed a certain level rikudo senjutsu. The hand seal needed less rikudo senjutsu than rsm for healing.

As for you’re stance, I hear what you’re saying and it’s wrong. It’s wrong because for hokage Naruto retained hagoromo’ chakra, yet there are now sign of him using rikudo senjutsu. Also if you go back to that novel scans I linked to, you’ll see my stance is confirmed. There you’ll see a clear comparison between Obito hagoromo and Naruto. The common denominator being that they were each considered juubi jinchuriki. Which in turn granted obito Naruto and hagoromo rikudo senjutsu. Proving outright that hagoromo chakra alone doesn’t suffice for that power. The OP addresses this.

Naruto got chakra from each biju, that was his method of attaining rikudo senjutsu. Hagoromo realized he had this potential and gave him the rsm to utilize the power. He also gave him rikudo yang power which required both rikudo yin power and rikudo senjutsu to reseal kaguya. Even on its own to heal kakashi, guy, and obito, Naruto still demonstrated the use of yin-yang release. This counter has been restated a few times now.

As for boruto era, his design matches that of kcm Naruto and not of rsm Naruto. While you’re spot checking, be sure to look at a few key things. Staring with their backs. Whether their cloak activated or not, hokage Naruto’ back looks a lot like kcm naruto’, and nothing like rsm Naruto’. Same can be said about their stomachs(where the seal is), their shoulders and the backs of their hands. All of it makes hokage out to be using kcm or the equivalent since he now uses full kurama. But then theirs the eyes. Which is simply explained by the fact that just as Naruto can gather nature energy, so can the biju. Kurama proved this during naruto’ clash with Sasuke’ amped indra arrow. Right before the clash, Kurama gathered a massive amount of nature energy, ‘everything that’s available’. Which is far more than Naruto ever amassed at once on his own, yet he never gets those rings around his eyes. Hokage Naruto is simply doing the same thing. How do I know. Because hokage Naruto has used sage mode on its own, and the rings were present. Conclusion being if there are no rings around his eyes while Naruto is using senjutsu, it means that energy is being amassed by kurama. If there are rings present, Naruto himself is gathering the senjutsu. There you have it, you no longer have to cling to assumption that no rings around his eye automatically means rsm. It has been debunked.

LegionZero wrote: @Hag0r0m0: page numbers and databook entries or bust

What exactly are you asking for evidence of? And if I do happen to have the proof you’re requesting, will you then concede?

CombatIQmatters wrote: @Hagoromo

Vlad's statement kinda seals the deal imo. Look at my last post, as well as Vlad's. the fact that naruto healed guy in of itself proves he was in six paths sage mode, so it's the eyes lol. Combine that with my previous post, and I think it's clear. I already addressed his post.