Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-1018594-20150217173857/@comment-5273810-20150220043027

ItachiWasAHero wrote: Madara did not have more chakra than Naruto until he became TTJ. Nagato and Kisame had the most chakra in Akatsuki, including Obito. Also if Obito was strong enough he would have forced Nagato to use Rinne Tensei and then take his eye after that, but he didn't because he knew he couldn't. Obito was equal to Madara from his VotE fight with Hashirama minus Kurama's help. Itachi power wise is below Nagato, Madara and Obito, but like I said before this is NOT DBZ and power, chakra levels and speed alone do not dictate the winner or loser of a battle. Obito knew Itachi could kill him. Obito knew Nagato could kill him. Which is why he did not try to take Nagato's eyes by force, or kill Itachi at any point. I never said Madara had more chakra or if I did I never intended it. What I meant is his chakra was when alive powerful enough to restrain and capture all the tailed beasts simultaneously and without breaking a sweat. That requires a lot of chakra, something Nagato couldn't do against Naruto alone in rampage. Also why would Obito want to force Nagato to Rinne Tensei? To bring Madara back? No, he didn't want Madara back, he adopted the plan as his own and decided to do it with himself at the focal point. It was a waste of time to try and take the eyes of Nagato. If he wanted to he could. Let me say it like this, Naruto with Senjutsu, knowledge, and rampaging 9 tails = Pain's level of power. Obito had the knowledge and power above Senjutsu/9 tails rampaging. This has been proven repeatedly just by the way people have treated him. This includes the 9 tails who recognized no difference between Obito and Madara in any way never mind chakra levels and believed he was Madara just as much as everyone else. Madara can beat a sick Nagato and so can Obito. Simple case is Obito didn't need to and so didn't. Obito admittedly knew that Itachi could kill him with proper knowledge, initiative, and his not being prepared for it. But none of these would ever happen in a real straight up fight. Obito never tried to take Nagato's eyes by force as his plans didn't require him to do so at that point and Itachi was still of use to him. Neither were killed by Obito because he simply didn't need to. He didn't need to kill Nagato cause Nagato was going according to the plan, and he didn't need to kill Itachi as he was always going to be loyal to him as long as he didn't touch the leaf again, something he didn't need to do for his plan at that time. Also, he knew of Itachi's plans for Sasuke and decided to use that plan to his advantage and just switch out Itachi for Sasuke which worked so again why kill him when he is already dying and setting up another perfect pawn to replace him?

Trappedinmygenjutsu wrote: I totally agree with ItachiWasAHero, this is not DBZ and it is not as simple as this I can destroy a continent so I would win, etc. The Naruto series has many ways where destructive capability means nothing (edos regenerate, preta path, yata mirror, izanagi, kamui) and more technical abilities (genjutsu, totsuka blade, Kaguya's bone thingy, dust release, sealing jutsu, 64 palms, kamui, izanami)which don't care about how much of a beating a character can take.

The strategic element of Naruto is what sets it apart from other series as characters think of plans to counter out each others abilities while preventing their opponent from doing the same. I agree about power levels not being like DBZ, this we all agree on I think. What I'm arguing isn't something like Obito is more powerful so he can beat Itachi, my statements are trying to make a intelligent conversation about who is more powerful and who would win in a fight. By my calcuations there are 20 different factors that can influence a fight making someone like for example Kabuto beat someone like Tsunade who in a real straight up fight would lose to her. This strategy element is one of the many things, I love about the manga and show and so yeah, to say its simple DBZ power levels stuff is absurd.