Talk:Kanzeon Lotus King

Locked Related Jutsu?
What is the reason for locking the editing for the Related Jutsu category? I wished to add Sage Art: Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands and vice versa. --Questionaredude (talk) 05:23, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * This technique has to be mentioned in the infobox, as it is in the one of the larger version as well. Norleon (talk) 18:09, July 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Bump. Norleon (talk) 10:03, July 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Seriously. Guruguru is added as a user of the Top Transformed Buddha technique because he used it just like Hashirama, albeit with his smaller version of the Sage Art: Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands. If the Top Transformed Buddha is a derived jutsu of Hashirama's version, the same should apply to Guruguru's version. Everything else does make absolutely no sense. Norleon (talk) 13:07, July 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like there is something wrong with the infobox. I don't see a place to add derived techniques. So /shrug--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:27, July 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * You just edit add it as parent jutsu to the derived jutsu and it should appear here too--~Ultimate Supreme  18:40, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Parent or Derived
Shouldn't Hashirama's variant be the derived version since it's just this technique with Sage Chakra added to it?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 01:57, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thing is, Hashirama's is the original jutsu, as far as it down. A derived jutsu isn't necessarily stronger than the original. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:56, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah this is an odd case, because we'd only seen it used when Hashirama's in Sage Mode. Honestly, most Wood Release techniques shown are derived from Hashirama in one way or another, as seen with Yamato, Danzō, etc...even Madara's use of it wasn't Hashirama's. If anything, this one should be the derived version, but we wouldn't list Tobi as a user of the parent should we go this route for obvious reasons.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 05:13, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * But I don't recall Sage Mode being needed for any jutsu. Just enhancing jutsus that already exist.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 05:25, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe you're right. We just haven't seen it without Sage Mode...could be wrong though.--Mina [[Image:Hatake Symbol.svg|20px]] talk 11:22, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Name?

 * Is there any reason why this technique isn't named "Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands"? --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 11:38, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's not the stronger, true version. The name isn't official. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:51, May 31, 2015 (UTC)
 * And since Seel, the translator of this wikia hasn't done anything about the name I can only assume that means the fourth DB did not cover the name of this technique or its details.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 21:07, May 31, 2015 (UTC)

Rename and Merge
I suggest we rename this page to "Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands" because taking out the "True" is just speculative. True does not have to mean this technique is "false" or "cheap imitation" when in comparison.

Furthermore, I suggest after renaming this page, we put "Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands" under this page, under a subsection "Senjutsu Influence", similar to how Hair Needle Senbon and Rasengan each have that section. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:32, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree and remember to sign your edits @cloud. Munchvtec (talk) 04:36, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wrote both paragraphs (Yatanogarasu), and signed just the subparagraph. Thought I just have to sign it once. But thanks for agreeing with me. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:38, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * ah...i saw this and assumed it was him. Why'd you indent and space the second paragraph? Munchvtec (talk) 04:45, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Didn't want it to clutter everything into one paragraph, just separating my two points. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 04:47, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * I see. Fixed anyhow. Munchvtec (talk) 04:50, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

This (supposed) technique wasn't given a databook entry, but the book did strangely list Tobi as a user of the Wood Release: Wood Human Technique. So maybe it was trying to imply that this miniature Shinsusenju was his version of that technique? Not that we'll ever get confirmation or anything.--BeyondRed (talk) 04:51, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Just saying but this technique does not look like anywhere near "several thousand hands" like Hashirama's version does. This looks more like several hundred hands at best. I think it should be renamed "Wood Release: Several Hundred Hands". --Rai 水 (talk) 04:52, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't recall exactly where this discussion took place, but I believe the main reason for the split in the first place was because Tobizetsu doesn't use Sage Mode, which is part of the original jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:41, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Sage Art: Hair Needle Senbon was introduced before the regular Hair Needle Senbon. This situation is pretty similar, except we have no official name for Tobi's version. In both cases, the non-senjutsu variant didn't get an entry in a databook but the senjutsu version did.--BeyondRed (talk) 05:52, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except the non-senjutsu version of Hair Needle Senbon was only named in the anime, in an anime-only sequence. And something I was against in the past was putting everything Fuguki did under that name. The thing he did in the manga does not match the thing that was named in the anime. Manga Fuguki used nameless thick bundles of hair as spikes. Anime Fuguki named Senbon, which shot out individual strands, and bundle spikes were considered the same thing, despite the name clearly not applying. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 06:01, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) What about Sage Art: Rasengan? Here, we just get rid of the "Sage Art", and we get "Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands". Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:02, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Again. I suggest renaming this page to "Wood Release: Several Hundred Hands". Why? Because it at best looks like it bares a few hundred not thousand, like Hashirama's version. --Rai 水 (talk) 06:08, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks can be deceiving, and names can be misleading. As Naruto kept calling it Multiple Shadow Clone Technique when sometimes he merely produces like 5 or 6. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:12, May 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * That is an anime thing though. This isn't even named. It's not just that this version doesn't require Sage Mode, isn't as large as Hashirama's version or as powerful, but it doesn't have near as much hands as Hashirama's. It would be ridiculous to refer to both as several thousand in comparison. --Rai 水 (talk) 06:24, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Rename
I'm thinking we rename this jutsu to "Wood Release: Several Hundred Hands" because when in comparison with Hashirama's Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands, this obviously technique is lower in numbers in comparison. --Rai 水 (talk) 17:22, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
 * Bump. --Rai 水 (talk) 04:08, May 16, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not against the name change, since both in the manga and in the anime Tobi's version does have fewer hands than Hashirama's version. --JouXIII (talk) 23:28, May 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Considering this is actually unnamed I see no issue with the rename. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:31, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I can't think of a reason as to why not. Munchvtec (talk) 06:42, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems more speculative than simply removing the "True" part. We can't be sure if Hashirama's version actually have 1000 arms. The name could simply be to exemplify how devastating the technique is, not actually counting the number. I mean, Thousand Hands Manipulation Force doesn't look like a 1000 arms, while Red Secret Technique: Performance of a Hundred Puppets has discrepancies in how many puppets in the manga (over 100). Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:47, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Yet this technique differs from those since it's unnamed. Munchvtec (talk) 06:49, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing that Hashirama's version actually has 1000, but we can clearly see his has more, and if anything, this one would be hundred or so hands compared to his. --Rai 水 (talk) 06:58, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110904041913/messaging/images/1/1c/Emoticon_yes.png I'm good with the rename. 15:43, May 29, 2016 (UTC)

Lotus Lord Kanzeon
I think we finally have a name for this technique. A couple weeks ago, the Naruto Blazing game gave this jutsu to Ashura Otsutsuki as his secret technique (i think?). Here is the vid for this jutsu. I don't know the literal translation of the jutsu's name is, but the game wiki translates it as Lotus Lord Kanzeon. Although Asura is the one demonstrating this jutsu, I think it is the same one used by Tobi in the manga. Should we use this name until something better shows up?--GunmetalDragon (talk) 17:33, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
 * 観世音蓮華王 Kanzeon Renge-Ō. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:49, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks Seel. So what do you think? Should we rename this page to that? Also, I'd like to know what others think as well.--GunmetalDragon (talk) 19:54, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's Tobi's technique, from the looks of it. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:30, July 23, 2019 (UTC)
 * Question: is the thing that Asura did in the anime a fewer-armed version like Tobi did? He's currently listed as a user of the senjutsu version Hashirama used. Listing Asura and Tobi as using the same jutsu would entail removing him from Hashirama's version. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, July 27, 2019 (UTC)
 * From what I saw, it had about the same number of hands as Hashirama's but the figure itself was less detailed like Tobi's. I'm guessing this was all just to recreate the scene with Madara vs Hashirama anyways. But I'm thinking we should leave it as it is, since it mirrors Hashirama's version more (There's also the issue that another user brought up on the talk page of Hashirama's version where he notices the D4 name of the jutsu includes the name for Top Transformed Buddah, and that TTB probably isnt a seperate jutsu). But yea, I don't think Asura did this jutsu. Also, are we all on board with the name change?--GunmetalDragon (talk) 01:57, July 28, 2019 (UTC)