Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26636534-20180830184727/@comment-34194151-20180918084331

1) we came full circle here, I conceded long ago the technique was a problem, just not uncounterable. In the right situation it could end itachi.

2) I accept your concession. You're entire argument is based on a few fallacies. You claimed that itachi failed to tag obito, false. Obito was tagged by amaterasu, period. You also have no proof that kamui was used, whereas I pointed towards evidence of izanagi used, then you retract your claim by saying there is no proof either way, which is the entire point. So you can't say that konan did better than itachi, period, because for all we know, obito was forced to use izanagi, and amaterasu>kamui. Also, false, we clearly saw amaterasu scorch marks on killer bee's decoy and sasuke's curse mark 2 decoy, so you're wrong. The real killer bee was actually hiding in a tentacle that was not affected by amaterasu and he substituted himself into it. Obito's shoulder and arm were clearly burning him. Additionally, you're argument that he "phased" through the flames makes no sense, as he was clearly tagged by the flames. even if he sent the flames to the other dimension and detached them somehow, there would still be burned clothing. To say that he merely used kamui requires a bunch of contrived events to have happened, not to mention there is still obito's character statements. Additionally, I already debunked your other claims. Itachi was smart enough to use a exploding clone to take all the risk, and detonate the clone to harm his enemies, and was smart enough to stay at a safe distance while the clone exploded and nearly subdued his enemies. Konan instead opted to detonate bombs near herself in a suicide attack when she could have used a paper bomb clone instead and remained at a safe distance. One used a clone to take the fall for them, the other nearly threw their life away when they KNEW they already had another trump card waiting. No matter how you twist it, itachi has made better tactical decisions than konan. Itachi isn't overhyped at all, he has his weaknesses but tactical prowess in battle and foresight and insight isn't one of them, he is most certaintly above the characters here. Put him next to people like Black Zetsu, shikamaru, shikaku, tobirama senju, or minato, then we can start talking.

Plus we know obito didn't detach the flames and drop them on the ground or something, because then the whole cave would have started burning.

3) Nope. Manga>anime. I already knew this excuse would come up, but I'm not buying it. Nagato himself has reacted to plenty of attacks coming out of smokescreens and even attacks that were done while he was in a smokescreen. From kakashi attacking from underground, to rasenshurikens coming out of smokescreens, etc. There is no way you can suddenly make an exception for the totsuka blade for your convenience. He couldn't react, fair and square. Seeing susano'o or not is irrelevant, because he can still see the blade coming out of the smoke, and he is smart enough to use preta path/or shinra tensei to block it, if he could. Totsuka blade's speed was the bane of nagato's existence.

4) The wiki is written by humans, who aren't omniscient or always correct. If I see a jutsu clearly has shown top tier feats but suddenly has low end feats when the plot is needed, I call it out. IF Minato's FTG suddenly became a slow technique and cost minato a battle, I doubt people would suddenly ignore the previous established feats. Plot armor and deus ex machina don't count imo.

5) Nowhere was it stated that he couldn't compete with him in intelligence. I agree that orochimaru is smarter than kakashi in many ways and is more experienced, but he is not a better combat strategist imo. There are different aptitudes even in intelligence. Intelligence isn't just a one size fits all, some people are really smart in physics and some are smarter at learning new languages. Not being able to compete with someone could mean many things, he clearly meant he couldn't defeat orochimaru in 1v1 combat.

Well, the bone argument is fine, I never said it wouldn't be a threat, but he is an experienced ninja who most certainly has seen high level earth techniques before, there is no reason to assume the technique is uncounterable, which is why I kept saying there needed to be a diversion for it land. Team Oro could pull it off, but I'm not sure given that I believe itachi is their tactical superior and he is significantly faster than each of them, in jutsu speed, running speed, reflexes, everything I can think of. their numbers help offset this weakness, but itachi is proficient in the use of clones. I continued this argument because I wanted to see altnerative explanations, this is supposed to be a fair battle. You don't always get to use your trump card. Dediara with his c4 could solo most of the verse, even hashirama or madara in the right circumstance but doesn't mean he will get to use it in battle if his opponent gets the better of him first. But, if nothing else will change, then this was an interesting discussion, and I don't really have a problem with your opinion outside of the Itachi and obito thing.