Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-33959444-20180519003101/@comment-33959444-20180612214602

Natrix Spiritual Cloak Gleam That fact doesn't matter. Orochimaru was still capable of regenerating at an insane rate and using Oral Rebirth. And Orochimaru was coughing out blood at the end of the next arc, which is implied to take place 6 months after the arc in which Naruto and Orochimaru fought.

You can't use databook stats to support Orochimaru against Hiruzen considering Orochimaru has a 3.5 in Taijutsu. If we use databook stats, Kisame has 4.5, so he's better. And Kisame has insanely great physical strength as well as Water Prison to the point he was overpowering Guy and forced him to use the 6th Gate.

Kisame in water while fused with Samehada was so fast that Bee in V2 wasn't capable of reacting. Bee in V1 was so fast that apparently nobody had dodged him except for Sasuke and his brother.

Hiruzen was only slightly weaker in Edo. However, Hiruzen had infinite Chakra, infinite stamina, regeneration factor, and immortality. All of that together makes him a better fighter than him in an alive state.

I'll agree that Adamantine Staff was able to push out Kurama.

And I feel you're underestimating Kisame's CQC capabilities. Again, Kisame greatly overpowered Guy with his physical strength and sent him down into the water.

Or, it could have just been that the Nine Tailed 4T Cloak was stronger than Orochimaru had expected, just like how Sasuke ended up betraying him, unlike he expected. And we do know Orochimaru underestimated Naruto because Naruto's 4T Bijuu Dama destroyed his Triple Rashomon, which he was using to block it.