Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34656247-20181008062436/@comment-6769189-20181010085145

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero

Having help =/=him needing it. I didn't see any signs of naruto or killer bee helping itachi land the blade, that was itachi soloing. you are probably referring to the chibaku tensei, but again, this is a common fallacy that some people use. Just because they used teamwork doesn't mean they are doomed without working together. At this point you would have to prove Itachi has the ability to counter/destroy Chibaku Tensei on his own. Living Itachi cant spam Yasaka Magatama.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I suggest you reread the panel where Orochimaru got stabbed. He clearly got stabbed in between words. the words "defeat" and you" are linked by a dash mark. Clearly indicating those panels are linked in time. That means no more than a second passed, because that is the speed of human speech. Orochimaru was also clearly surprised by being stabbed, as his facial expression was surprised and he also had a question mark in his speech bubble that indicated surprise. Orochimaru couldn't react in the first place. Your description is out of order. he only realized he was screwed after being hit. Yes he got stabbed mid-sentence but that doesnt mean he couldnt have avoided it. On the next page he talks about how its a "little cut." He didnt consider it a threat.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I see no reason to believe that characters below A4 are lightning levels of speed. Reflexes, sure. but not actual running speed. You have to be faster than ayy to reach those speeds. Might guy and ridoku characters are probably the only ones at that level of speed. A4 is above lightning levels of speed with Raiton Armor. Anyone who can counter/dodge Chidori has combat speed/reaction speed above lightning.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Kakashi, choji and chouza thought the 5 second interval between shinra tensei from deva path was almost unexploitable. They thought it would be hard, but this would generally be due to how the attack worked. If he did use it, they could be grievously injured or thrown back out of range. That is why they used a 4 step plan with 2 diversions.

Asura Paths was able to jump inbetween Kakashi's Raikiri and Deva before the attack landed and they were like a foot and a half from eachother

CombatIQmatters wrote:

You severely underestimate the length of the totsuka blade. Relook at that chapter nagato got stabbed and then re-consider how long that blade is. Itachi, killer bee, and naruto are all about the size of nagato's head, that's how far away they are, and the blade seems to continue in length as it comes out of the page towards the reader. But is it long enough to peirce into the center of a structure that dwarfs mountains? Bee, Itachi, and Naruto are comparable to Itachi's Susasoo's face. Madara's Susanoo is so big that Madara is barely the size of its eye.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Tsyukyomi won't kill hashirama but he isn't dodging the totsuka blade while he is caught in it. I doubt sick Itachi can hold Tsukuyomi and use Susanoo at the same time

CombatIQmatters wrote:

minato can distract hashirama with FTG level 2 and itachi can then use tsykuyomi and totsuka blade to finish him. Is this a 2 on 1? If its a 2 on one then its an easy with with an FTG+Totsuka combo.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I don't see your point. Kakashi and itachi both improved in speed over the timeskip, and kakashi couldn't even overwhelm 30 percent itachi in speed. I have no reason to believe the speed difference between them has changed.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I never said Pain is slow, but he is certainly slower than both itachi and minato based on feats. Itachi can easily react to kakashi's raikiri imo, Basis of for this is what exactly? Living Itachi has almost no speed feats.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

You are underestimating itachi's speed and tactics. People seem to forget for whatever reason that itachi overlays attacks when he is fighting. He is actually very straight forward. He showed one time that his attacks have any layers and that was using his shuriken as a distraction on Kakashi. Other than that he kinda just cycles through attacks until one works.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Not only is there a noticeable speed difference in every way between him and the pains, i have no reason to believe the pains can react to a totuska blade blitz faciilated by a bunshin feint. Itachi has shown the ability to place clones behind his opponents in the heat of battle. Because Itachi has shit stamina and isnt as fast as you believe. Hebi Sasuke was giving him a decent run for his money when it came to taijutsu.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Summons won't come into play. Here is why. The 6 paths of pain take a T- formation when they fight. Naraka stands in back, human path and animal path stand in front, and preta path stands in front of all them. then ashura path and deva path stand to the left and right of preta path to maximize defense and offense at the front of the formation. Meaning, at least 3 of the pains are standing one behind the other. that means at least 3 pains are dying at the start of the fight. They start in a t formation and Pain spams summons and has Preta ready to absorb whatever ninjutsu comes their way.

Dont see how Itachi is not getting pressed by Pain.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

If edo nagato who is faster than the pains can't react to the totsuka blade with preta path, then why would a slower version be able to react? Kabuto explained that Nagato's lack of mobility was a problem, not his actual speed.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

-Match starts, 16 meters away from each other. Itachi forms susano'o, and it takes a second for the the fully armored version to form. nagato uses summoning jutsu and a rhino starts running at him. And now Preta prepares his chakra absorption to protect the rest from Susanoo.

CombatIQmatters wrote: unfortunately for pain, Itachi forms exploding shadow clone behind the naraka path just like he did to kakashi. At what point would this opening be available? Shadow clones dont just appear super far from the user.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Nagato senses it, naraka tries to counter-attack with a rod. itachi is faster and better at taijutsu, so he outmanuevers it and kills it with kunai. the other pains look back. when that happens, the totsuka blitzes through the rhino, and 3 of the other pains standing behind it one behind the other are dead. 4 down. deva and ashura left. Lets count the assumptions here
 * Itachi is better at Taijutsu
 * The paths can even properly sealed since they dont have Nagatos consciousness within them
 * Preta path doesnt just start absorbing Susanoo

CombatIQmatters wrote:

the shadow clone blitzes towards deva as the other 3 pains are being sealed away and rhino are being sealed away. deva uses shinra tensei, cause the clone to explode. 5 second cool down begins. Or Pain uses a Rinnegan rod, disrupting the clones chakra flow and dispersing it.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Itachi uses amaterasu on ashura path, after distracting it first with a katon. any lasers it fires would be blocked with ease by susano'o. Unless Asura path is already foring underneath Itachi. Where he has no protection or the chameleon pulls Itachi from Susanoo exposing him to any number of ranged attack or into the preta path to absorb what little is left of Itachi's chakra. If Asura Path is tagged by Amaterasu Preta can absorb it off of him.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

That is all well within itachi's stamina range, and that is sick itachi. sick itachi used 3 shadow clones, multiple amaterasu, tsykuyomi, and then susano'o in the same day before he died. Sick Itachi at full stamina only had 1 Tsukuyomi, 2 Amaterasu, and Susanoo in him before he gave out. You cut his stamina down to less than half with that Exploding Shadow Clone

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Healthy itachi is just fine to accomplish this. With minato as back up, its honestly no contest. OP says Itachi is sick.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

My point about naruto still stands. he outsmarted the pain's formation by overlaying attacks and using deception with bunshin feints and fake rasenshurikens, which is on the order of itachi's bread and butter when it comes to tactics as well. Ummmm ok lets be real about how Naruto took out the Pains. Because only 3 out of the 7 Pain kills he got he did so in a 1-on-1 confrontation.


 * Asura Path:Naruto had the element of surprise. Itachi has no such thing in this fight, at least not the way you set it up.


 * Preta Path: a bit of dumb luck but this was the 1/3 1v1 fights he had with the Pains.


 * Human Path: Naruto took him out because his toads were handling the summons for him. Itachi has no such assistance.


 * Animal Path: took her out because one of the toads swallowed them up leaving her completely blind. Itachi has no such techniques. It was at this point that Naruto needed the Toads to distract Deva Path because he was too presses to summon his back senjutsu clones, and even then he had to have another toad do the summoning for him. At this point Naruto would have lost 1-on-1


 * Naraka Path: the 2nd of 3 Pain kills Naruto got on his own.


 * Preta Path: the final kill Naruto got without assistance by using a Senjutsu chakra trick. Itachi doesnt have that.


 * Deva Path: Naruto was actually defeated by Deva until Kurama broke out. Then Pain used CT and Naruto was saved by the 8 Tails transformation. Itachi doesnt have that.

Itachi doesnt have the resources or the stamina to use tactics similar to Naruto's.