Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-33030270-20170909171417/@comment-5085906-20170915084824

Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: izuna had zero visibility from a physical point, ad not a chakra one. actually, couldn't hiruzen use some wide range jutsu to attack all the kunai at once? if he did, it wouldn't matter where minato teleported. he would get caught in it anyways. but tbh, I still don't see ur whole picture on how he wins. I need a concrete scene, if u know what I mean. we can both name abilities. why not name strategies. im gonna start. the first that is going to happen in this battle, is either minato placing his kunai, or hiruzen summoning enma. if he does so before minato places them, or if he at least impedes minato from doing so completely, minato looses. im pretty sure we both know that minato's only actual strength against his opponents, is his speed. if he doesn't have that, he obviously looses most of the battles that we saw him win. we agree on this, correct? First off, you could argue that Izuna was blinded, but the guy did see the kunai come his way and couldn't keep track of Tobirama. And we've seen Sasuke had a lot of difficulty keeping up with the Raikage's shunshin which was already established to be slower than Minato's speed. Obito, who is also a sensor, couldn't properly keep track of Minato either. No way Hiruzen can keep up with him.

And yes, I agree that Minato's speed is his most decisive factor in all of his match-ups, but you're oversimplifying his speed and his ingenuity in FTG usage. He does not rely on kunai alone to use FTG. If Hiruzen can take out his kunai off the ground, Minato can still teleport to them and throw them again before Hiruzen has the chance to react. Have you seen his fight against the Raikage? He threw the the FTG kunai in the air while the Raikage was charging at him. That requires some quick sleight of hand tricks to pull off.

But sure, let me give you a proper scenario. So, let's say Minato and Hiruzen are fighting in an open, grassy field in a Sunday afternoon. There's quite a distance in between them. What Hiruzen can do is maintain that distance and keep Minato at bay until he runs out of chakra. What Minato has to do is touch Hiruzen - if that happens, he's done for. For the record, I don't think Hiruzen will summon Enma right off the bat. He didn't do that until after he got caught in edo Hashirama's jutsu when fighting Orochimaru, and he was in a hurry to kill him back then. Besides, he knows Enma in either form will not work against Minato. He needs a technique with a wider range to take out Minato's FTG.

So, the battle starts. Minato does his usual thing of quick-fire, kunai scatter which Hiruzen blows away using a Wind release technique, preferably Danzo's Great Sphere. Minato can easily close that distance by either teleporting to his displaced kunai and throwing one of them near him or use shunshin, but since you're being awfully stubborn then we'll assume he can't do that. I'll show you another way. Hiruzen uses Shadow Possession to try and catch Minato, but that doesn't work. Minato tries again - almost the same strategy, but this time he creates a clone. Hiruzen immediately understands what he's trying to do and creates a clone of his own to watch over clone Minato. Minato scatters his kunai again, Hiruzen blows them out with a long-range technique. Clone Minato tries to throw a couple of kunai in his direction too, but Clone Hiruzen blows them away. Again, Minato can easily teleport to the kunai in his clone's hand, but we'll say he can't do that.

Battle comes to a stalemate. Minato's stumped and is running out of strategies. Lol jkes - he summons Gamabunta! Casually plants a mark in his foot or any part of his body even. Hiruzen summons Enma and makes him turn into Adamantine staff. Minato throws a kunai towards Hiruzen, but clone Hiruzen flicks it away. Now, there are several ways this can go, but this is my preferred outcome - Hiruzen tries to attack Gamabunta with his Adamantine Nyoi, at which point Gamabunta leaps in the air while Minato shunshins his way near the extended staff and marks it. He can easily teleport himself to Hiruzen, but the fact of the matter is clone Hiruzen has noticed that and alerted him. If Hiruzen discards the adamantine staff, he is left without defense against Gamabunta who can even choose to attack them with Water Release: Gunshot if he so desires. If he keeps the adamantine staff, Minato teleports to it and hits Hiruzen with a Rasengan while also marking his body. Then quickly teleport to him again and places a contract seal in order to prevent Enma from attacking him.

This is my...weirdly specific scenario. Sorry, for the long post.