Talk:Hamura Ōtsutsuki

Needed?
Is this page really needed? We don't know anything about him at the moment after all. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 07:22, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * We've had pages that were almost empty for a long time, wait until Naruto and the Sage are done talking, it's possible that more will be shown. TricksterKing (talk) 07:27, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * One of the first two humans born with chakra, helped take down the Ten-Tails. Yes. Just as important as Ashura and Indra were when they were first mentioned as the nameless sons of the RS. Hagoromo is going on about his history, we're bound to hear more about his brother. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 07:36, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Older?
Just to get this out of the way, I see that for a moment, this page was moved to indicate that this was the older sibling. However, I don't see anything in either available scanlation that points Hagoromo as the younger brother. Is there an early released raw or something similar that corroborates this? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:24, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * Na. He should've actually been the younger one, since Hagoromo was the first human to be born with Chakra. Seelentau 愛議 14:27, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I ask this because I can totally see Madara either not knowing the full story because not all of it was in the Uchiha tablet, or, more likely, that he withheld information to somehow twist history for his own purposes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:46, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * If I can go a little off topic here, what about this guy and the Ten-Tails? Did he have it sealed in him as well?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:54, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * I was confused as hell by that too, and I'm certain that the next three or four chapters aren't going to be any better in that department. Ideally, all that means is that they split the Ten-Tails like Minato did with Kurama, and that when he died, Hagoromo took the other half into himself. I can't deal with a future reveal that there is another Ten-Tails out there, or even worse, another set of nine tailed beasts. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:59, March 26, 2014 (UTC)
 * That was my speculation as well...But for now let us worry to make sure if that is even the case in the first place.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 15:09, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

At the risk of staying further off topic, I came up with two distinct possibilities.
 * 1.) Just like with Minato The ten-tails was split into two seperate entities ( I.E Yin and Yang), and the other brother sealed himself, with the help of Hagoromo, inside the moon to keep a check on the Ten-tails original body. this means that if the eye of the moon plan was completed- he'd be waiting for a sucessful return to earth.
 * 2.) the other brother died during that battle, which caused Hagoromo (who was most likely the older brother, the one laced with natural power) to adopt his younger brother's policies Iowndisciti (talk) 15:21, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

Those both are COMPLETELY speculation, and there's a lot more that could've happened then those two distinct possibilities. Madara Uchiha was stated to be the first person to awaken Mangekyo, which is obviously bullshit. Hagoromo was stated to be the strongest Shinobi to ever live and the creator of ninjutsu - We now know both of those titles are his mother's, not his. Skarrj (talk) 20:09, March 26, 2014 (UTC)

His weapons
I was wondering why he isn't listed as a wielder of his weapons when I realised that I don't even have a clue about what those might be. The thing he's wearing on his back is too short to be the sheath of that hammer-thing he's wielding, so do you guys think it's for a sword? Then coming back to that hammer-staff: Does anybody know what it really is and could give me the name of it? Noweeaboohoo (talk) 23:07, March 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it's just a variation of shakujō.—Entondark (talk) 23:16, March 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * According to wikipedia, the shakujō's big deal are the rings on it. There aren't any here though. That, or they are very small and can't be seen well thanks to the angle....Noweeaboohoo (talk) 23:45, March 27, 2014 (UTC)
 * For now I think he should be named as a user of staff.—Entondark (talk) 18:22, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright then. What about the thing on his back? Noweeaboohoo (talk) 23:37, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Hard to say, can be a sword or anything else, let's hope the next chapters.—Entondark (talk) 01:01, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

Jinchuriki Status
When this page was created, it mentioned that he, like Hagoromo, was a Jinchuriki of the Ten-Tails.

But now I noticed that his Jinchuriki status was removed. The raw version of this chapter is available now, right? Hagoromo said "Sealing it in ourselves" or "myself"?

--RIkudo (talk) 17:46, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Unless I'm mistaken, our translator said that according to the raw, Hagoromo's brother wasn't a host himself, he just aided in the sealing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:34, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Didn't Seel write just "Nah"? No mention of raws :P Unless he said so on a user talkpage--Elveonora (talk) 18:40, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding Hagoromo's brother being a jinchūriki, so even if he aided in the sealing, he was not the one the Ten-Tails was sealed in. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:56, March 29, 2014 (UTC)
 * He used the word "onore", which means "I". There was no "onore-tachi" or anything that indicates they sealed it in both of them. They both fought it, that's true, but Hagoromo was the sole Jinchuriki. Seelentau 愛議 10:41, March 30, 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but real Japanese disagree with you. That's how they commented on your claim: "'ororetachi' sounds quite awkward, a jp would say "onore-ra" instead. Either way "onoretachi/oretachi" means "you lot", not "ourselves". If you want to say "to ourselves" in jp, you say "warera ni", "oretachi ni", "watashitachi ni" and so forth. "Onore ni" is like saying "to self" - you can't really tell whether to himself or to themselves."Faust-RSI (talk) 05:55, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't be, I'm not the best translator there is. However, as far as I know, 己 onore is always about oneself, not multiple people. As your Japanese friends said, if he said that they sealed the Jūbi in themselves, he would've used 我ら warera or something similar. Seelentau 愛議 08:24, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll try to discuss this further, in my opinion, it's a quite important nuance, though I believe Kishimoto left the ambiguousness on purpose. If I understand correctly, you're basing your opinion on the use of the word "onore", so the best way to decide this question is to get confirmation on how this word maybe used - either only for oneself or for something more.Faust-RSI (talk) 08:32, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm actually thinking the exact opposite: Kishimoto often writes in such a simple way because the Japanese readers probably don't have a problem understanding what was said. The same goes for the Night Guy line in the recent chapter. While I have problems understanding it, Japanese readers easily get it. Seelentau 愛議 09:38, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems this time it's not the case. His answer was; "Onore" is an ambiguous word - it can be used as first, third and even the second person.Faust-RSI (talk) 11:54, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

What does the viz say?--Elveonora (talk) 10:44, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think it is the only way to have more or less real meaning.Faust-RSI (talk) 11:54, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Apparently the exact line from the Viz translation is
 * "We brothers, to atone for the crimes mother left behind... Battled ten tails, an incarnation of the divine tree... and sealed it inside me. The divine tree, robbed of it's chakra fruit, went on a rampage in an attempt to recover it."--Soul reaper (talk) 13:48, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Thought so. I actually don't think I've ever seen onore being used as we. According to the Japanese wikipedia, you can't use it for third person, though. And if you use it in second person, it's derogatory. Every source I use says it's ususally used as first person singular of I... Seelentau 愛議 14:18, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Translations aside, context clues are also important. The Sage was said to be the first jinchūriki and the one who came up with the art of sealing a beast within a human host. That wouldn't be true if his brother was also a jinchūriki. Kishi has been pretty clear from the start about who was the jinchūriki of Ten-Tails back then. That combined with what Seel has said about onore should put aside any doubt about the possibility of Hagoromo's brother being a jinchūriki. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:18, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Name
If we learn his name, there's something I want to get ahead of. Would we move his article with the surname or without? I sort of get why we didn't use the surnames for Indra and Asura (even though I don't like it and think they should have the surnames), but with this guy, I think not using the surname would really be pushing it. We know that Hagoromo carried their mother's surname, and unless there is a very specific, in-universe explanation, I think that he should have the surname in the article title if we learn his name. I think there's no logic in assuming a sibling wouldn't have the same surname as his brother only because we weren't introduced to him by his full name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:05, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. As far as Indra and Asura go, it could be a Kimimaro like case and they just didn't carry their father's name, or it could easily be that Asura did and Indra didn't etc, but with these two there didn't seem to be a line of succession or a falling out or anything like that, so there should be no reason why they both wouldn't carry her name, so I say go for it. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:26, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

I think you worry too much. This guy's case isn't even remotely similar to Hagoromo's sons, so I don't see why would anyone protest. Unless two different guys banged Kaguya (I think it was a non-sexual conception anyway), his surname is the same as Hagoromo's. In cases of Indra and Ashura, they might have taken their mother's surname, only if they had a second parent themselves of course...--Elveonora (talk) 19:32, March 29, 2014 (UTC)

Ancestor of the Uzumaki Clan
I was just wandering could he be the Ancestor of the Uzumaki clan seeing as its stated the Senju and Uzumaki were distant blood relatives. I know it didn't state that the Uzumaki are distant blood relatives with the Uchiha but the Senju are so it would make sense the Uzumaki are as well. Just a thought.

Joshuagallent (talk) 01:57, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * This guy is more likely to be ancestor of Ginkaku and Kinkaku.--Elveonora (talk) 12:29, April 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * And all of that is pulled out of butt speculation at this point. And you even pointed out that Uzumaki has not been stated to be related to the Uchiha, which would make this point impossible unless there was some freaky incest goin on between the children of Hagoromo's brother and Asura's children.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:33, April 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Could just as easily be the ancestor of the Hyuga, the Byakugan has to get from Kaguya to them somehow. Too early to tell, we'll have to wait and see.ZeroSD (talk) 20:44, April 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Hyuga clan would be very likely, despite the fact it gets stricken from the page just for being speculation (which can hardly be called speculation, when your only options are A and B and A is proven not to be the answer). Shadowfox337 (talk) 20:24, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

For some reason I feel he is linked more so to the Uchiha. I mean, he even looks as Madara does once he becomes the Jinchuriki of the TT. Where as the Sage looks more like Naruto if he were to be the TT Jinchuriki. (YES, I know. The Sage is the father of Indra who is the ancestor, but the looks are uncanny). SusanooUnleashed (talk) 11:48, April 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly, there hasn't been a strong evidence but I believe he's more inclined to be the Hyūga ancestor, since he as an Uzumaki is sort of impossible as well as Uchiha, which is most unlikely since Indra's the ancestor. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 12:58, April 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well technically the Senju and Uchiha ARE 'blood' relatives seeing as they're ancestors are brothers. Therefore if you are a 'blood' relative of the Senju however "distant" you would technically be a 'blood' relative of the Uchiha as well. My point was seeing as Hagoromo's brother is Indra and Ashura's uncle and his children would be there cousins, they are all related by blood so maybe its possible he is the Uzumaki Ancestor seeing as its stated the Uzumaki are distant blood relatives of the Senju. However i do prefer the theory that he could instead be the Hyuga Clan Ancestor, i mean the Byakogan had to be carried on somehow and Hagoromo got one of his mothers Dojutsu it would make sense his brother got the other. Besides Kaguya and Hyuga seem pretty similar lol. Also I did post my previous post before i found out Kaguya also possessed the Byakogan. Joshuagallent (talk) 08:34, April 17, 2014 (UTC)