User talk:GoDai/Ideas and Theories

User: GoDai/GoDai Seishitsu Henka, Combinations, and Theories

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Proof: Amaterasu is Fire Release (Databook)
I'll probably put more feedback later, but from the top of my head, I can give you a reference to something you used. Amaterasu is databook-confirmed Fire Release. See ShounenSuki's translation of Itachi's Transcription Seal: Amaterasu. One of the first sentences is that Amaterasu is the most powerful Fire Release technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. Finally, some solid confirmation. --GoDai (talk) 02:00, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

answers
Man, I have read "whole" page of yours and I must add we really think alike. What I meant as an enhancer is when the chakra is given properties of an element, when medium the chakra is changed into an element. So we both agree upon this except you say in KKG both are enhancer and medium but I say only 1 is enhancer and 1 medium : P You really have a brain. --Elveonora (talk) 08:00, November 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oil: I don' think its an element. Jiraiya when in Sage Mode is basically partially a frog/toad and they were shown to be related to oil. I think it's similar to Curse Seal/Mark or Tailed Beast Transformation since Killer B was shown spitting an ink due to his tailed beast being an octopus ... so spitting ink is related to Jiraiya's not perfect control over natural energy thus turning into a Toad.


 * To Shizune, it's possible she is like Hanzo. Maybe she has something similar as salamander's venom sac implanted.


 * Chakra Disruption Blades and Chakra Receiver's are basically due to Gedo Mazo ... it pinned Nagato with it and since then his body is able to create them. Since Pain's got them too, it's the same.

Chibaku Tensei is I think Magnet Release + Yin Release.
 * Deva Path's gravitation powers are basically Magnet Release on a bigger scale.

The only difference is that Asura is half humanoid/half machine. So I say Nagato uses alike powers in both Deva and Asura.
 * Asura's and Deva's powers are very similar since they use both use Magnetism.


 * Kimimaro's power are a mutation, no chakra transformed.


 * I think Kidomaru used Earth Release to change the strength and composition of his sweat. His sweat is kinda special ... something to do with him being like a spider :P Mutation/KKG or Oro's experiments.


 * Sand thing, yeah I agree Wind+Earth= Sand


 * Two Tail's body of blue flames is just it's form, nothing special.


 * For Steam it's Fire+Water


 * Bubble Release or something is Wind+Water


 * Konan uses a real paper infused with chakra, and her Dance of the Shikigami is basically a Combination Transformation with herself and her paper of chakra.


 * Sai uses Yang Release to bring his Ink painting to life.


 * Most characters used tools/body alternations to create the sound (Dosu,Zaku,Tayuya's flute is kinda magical) in case of Kin&Shima&Fukasaku, just a genjutsu ... so no Sound Release sorry :P


 * Dark Release is not canon

Both Yamato and Hashirama possess Wood Release, though Yamato's control over Kyubi is inferior compared to Hashirama so it's not a Wood thing but rather Hashirama chakra's unique trait.
 * I agree that power to control the Beasts is not due to Wood Release. It's a unique ability to Hashirama's chakra. Tobi controlled the Kyubi with just a normal sharingan and not used any wood pillars to do so, suggesting that Hashirama's chakra enhanced Tobi's normal Sharingan's genjutsu.


 * About Lava written differently, I think it's because in one case it's Fire+Earth (melted earth/magma) and in other Earth+Fire (fire with changed composition to be more sparse-tenuous/Lava)

* Fire+Wind = Scorch (making wind release hot, evaporating water at a molecular level) * Wind+Fire = Laser (Sharp and Thin beams of fire) * Fire+Lighting = Flash (Lighting moving at speed of light) * Lighting+Fire = Heat (Highly vibrating waves of fire causing heat in weather) * Fire+Earth = Magma (Heated earth) * Earth+Fire = Lava (Fire with changed composition) * Fire+Water = Steam (Evaporating water) * Water+Fire = Boil/Acid (creating an acidic hot mist) * Wind+Lighting = Energy * Lighting+Wind = Explosion (Highly vibrating electrons [sparks] getting in contact with oxigen in a high air pressure causing an explosion) * Wind+Earth = Sand (wind cutting and shaping earth minerals into sand) * Earth+Wind = Crystal (Creating Crystals in the air from various compositions by increasing their density) * Wind+Water = Bubble (cutting and shaping water to create bubbles) * Water+Wind = Ice (making wind solid) * Lighting+Earth = Quake (vibrating thus shaking ground) * Earth+Lighting= Magnetism (increasing the potency of electrones) * Lighting+Water = Shock (rotating water under voltage) * Water+Lighting = Plasma/Storm Release (changing state and shape of electricity into beams of lighting) * Water+Earth = Mud (changing state of earth into liquid) * Earth+Water = Corrosion (increasing density and potency of water thus making the corrosion instant)
 * Again my pattern, let me know which you think may be right:


 * Blaze pretty much as I said is Fire/Amaterasu+Yin


 * Can you comment on my Yin/Yang stuff ?

--Elveonora (talk) 09:17, November 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Kishi uses science.


 * Well glad you liked the page, although a lot of the ideas are really old and outdated right now, I don't always find the time to clean this place up.


 * For the section about "possible natures" I don't necessarily think they're natures, but I only listed them so I could use them for ideas later on. For example, obviously sound is not a nature in the cases we've seen so far. So what I would say for that section is, don't really think I'm trying to prove anything, I'm just listing out possibilities, mostly as notes for myself. Deidara's explosive chakra was in that section until it became a nature, so we never know, and that section acts as more like a reminder for myself.
 * For the Tailed Beast-related nature-like things, I'm being patient until Tobi and his Paths break out some techs.
 * I like to keep things in possibility as long as they're there. Movie natures such as Dark are only non-canon just because they're not in the manga yet; Kishi can always just take it and put it in if he wants. Remember, the characters identical to the ones from the movie were revived by Kabuto. Storm Release was actually premiered first in the movie, but Kishi took it and made his own version. Because something is non-canon right now certainly does not mean Kishi can just decide to put it in; they don't restrict him in any way.
 * I like your idea for Sai's techniques. I think it makes sense.
 * The Lava being written differently is the only thing that raises some doubt that there are only 10 combined elements. At the same time, becuase in Japanese they are hardly ever different, I've come to accept they are only different due to their village origins, or something like that. I really don't completely oppose the idea that there are 20 combinations, but at this moment in time, for me personally, there seems to be more pointing at 10 than the amount of hints pointing at 20. I don't oppose it, I might even change it if the manga points out even more hints.
 * The definition of Nature Transformation is any changes in the way chakra behaves, changes in its properties (I would actually like it better if it was called Property Transformation). Therefore, if someone's chakra acts in some way that normal chakra shouldn't, I think of it as a possiblity of nature transformation. Also, another way nature transformation seems to interpreted in the manga is "turning chakra into other elements" by giving normal chakra the same properties (color, mass, volume, phase, temperature, etc.) that the chosen element has. This one is a biggie, as it explains how changing the nature of your chakra allows you to breathe fire and spit water and earth, among other things. All that fire, earth, water, or whatever, is actually still made of chakra, just behaving differently. Remember when the Preta Path absorbed Sage Art: Goemon, and not only did it absorb chakra, it absorbed all of the oil, which shows that the oil was purely made out of chakra. This is the main reason Jiraiya's Toad Oil Bullet's databook entry describing it as "Jiraiya converts his chakra into oil" is important. Recently, the Second Mizukage was seen being able to manipulate an oily water (Simply referred to as oil in the chapter after probably for conciseness). I theorize that he did this by removing some properties (natures) of water from the water and adding some properties of oil. It's also possible that it was Yin Release being applied to Water Release. This could help describe how Jiraiya was turning his chakra into oil also, as the only way to turn chakra into another material is to give it the same set of properties possessed by that substance. In this case, the sticky and slippery feel, viscosity, flammability, color, etc. are all being applied to normal chakra, in order to convert it into oil. This also applies to Shizune's breathing of poisonous gas; if you see the databook entry, it clearly explains how she does it; she kneads her chakra into chemicals inside her body. This is also her giving her chakra poisonous, gaseous properties. While there are 5 major types of basic nature transformation, I find it possible that this is more of a spectrum of colors and that there are infinite varities of the "properties" one can give to their chakra. --GoDai (talk) 06:59, November 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I haven't answered some things, I'll try to answer them later, I do find myself quite busy at times. Maybe one topic at a time on this page in different sections would be more comfortable to see rather than my huge walls of text.

Ok, you can always check later :P Feel free to notice me about your theories/speculations. I thought the oil is due to sage mode, but now you are right ... he did that in his normal form. So then I guess its Water+Yin, and it even may be a hint since Mizukage has mentioned Yin Release : P --Elveonora (talk) 07:52, November 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's pretty much what I meant. The whole reason I mentioned Yin Release being a part of it is because the Mizukage mentioned he's a user of Yin Release, but didn't even mention Water Release when he began. This may mean his Yin techniques and abilities are more significant, which in turn made me think the oily water, which is a big part of his abilities, was related. --GoDai (talk) 10:45, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Can you please reply on my yin yang stuff i posted to omni's page ? should be in swift release section, thanks. --Elveonora (talk) 12:00, November 18, 2011 (UTC)

Wow ... even your KKG theory is similar to what I'm about to post soon 0_o --Elveonora (talk) 11:49, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oh sorry I was away for the weekend at some conference. Would you mind posting the Yin-Yang ideas here as a separate topic? --GoDai (talk) 00:13, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yin and Yang
I see. Can you please once again explain me your "formula" how you think the advanced natures are selected ? Yes, Yin and Yang are not nature transformations since it's not elemental ... Thats why I guess it was removed from the Rinnegan. Yin and Yang are transformations of chakra but not into nature. My guess is that yin and yang are being used from the start without even us really noticing. Iruka said something at Chunin exams, and few more times it was mentioned but I dont remember the examples now. I think every not elemental technique uses yin and yang. For example:

Shadow Clones its 3 Yin : 7 Yang Clone Technique 7 Yin : 3 Yang Genjutsu 10 Yin : 0 Yang Medical Ninjutsu 0 Yin : 10 Yang

What Im trying to say is that every technique uses a different ammount of Yin compared to Yang. When Its "only" Yin, its a Yin Release Technique (Genjutsu). When its "only" Yang, its a Yang Release Technique (Medical Ninjutsu). When its 5:5 Yin and Yang, its a Yin-Yang Release (Izanagi and stuff).

Wood Release is still Water+Wood thus 2 elements but only Yang chakra is being used thus I see it something like:

Yang+Water (Chakra able to change shape and state that gives life) enhancing earth as a medium, thus its earth given "life" (Wood).

But in case of Yamato I think he uses Yin instead most of time ... its because:

Except one technique, its wooden pillars instead of trees. Kabuto used him to strenghten Zetsu, and if he is the same as Hashirama then there would be no point because he is just a weaker "clone" Those with Hashirama's cells are said to physically boosted (given Yang energy) Yamato' wooden pillars changed into a trees with Kyubi's yang chakra, thats another reason I think when its pillars its Yin, when trees its Yang. --Elveonora (talk) 10:58, November 21, 2011 (UTC)

Hm well you gotta remember, the word "nature" in "Nature Transformation" doesn't mean "nature and environment". It's the second definition here:, meaning "the innate characteristics of a thing". Yin and Yang are still natures of chakra, since the physical nature and spiritual natures are the very things that chakra is made of. For me it's not really a matter of whether it's elemental or not since they actually never use the word "elemental" in the original Japanese manga, we just commonly refer to the 5 chakra natures as "elemental chakra" because that's a somewhat accurate description for what they do. In fact, all the manga talks about is the different natures (meaning quality or characteristics or behavior) of chakra.

Your point about the wooden poles vs. actual living trees is a matter I brought up myself some while ago, although I decided that we haven't seen enough of Hashirama's techniques to decide that there was this difference with wood/trees. However, I do also have this idea that Yin and Yang in combinations may not need kekkei genkai, or some other exception like that. There is a a possibility of the "oily, slimy liquid" used by the Mizukage is something like Water+Yin, and Sasuke also used Blaze Release, which is also possible in not being a kekkei genkai. Application of Yin and Yang may not necessarily be Yin and Yang, as you say. However, I do find that Yin-Yang Release is definitely the sixth nature, since it was always referred to as such. Because of the importance Madara shows in being able to use Yin-Yang Release, this nature could be the actual kekkei genkai we're talking about, if that makes any sense. --GoDai (talk) 00:58, November 27, 2011 (UTC)

I know, I meant it's not an element. And yes, yin+yang is like wood+water I mean kkg is most likely required to be able to combine them. --Elveonora (talk) 02:34, November 27, 2011 (UTC)