Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-34656247-20180528093116/@comment-34656247-20180530055500

Nashikeine wrote: Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: You said otherwise at first xd

Nashikeine wrote: i am not saying otherwise. in the first post i said non eye contact genjutsu are normal genjutsu. this time around i just elaborated it seeing as you decided to put it in some sort of special skill like MS jutsu category while talking about the things ill Itachi did. i just wanted to make sure that it had nothing to do with MS and its drawback ah Souka, i misunderstood, by normal genjutsu i thought you meant those that guys like Kakashi and kabuto uses ;_;

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Ah good point.but ah bit isn't really acceptable.

Nashikeine wrote: the bit is important. just how long did it pass since Itachi used Tsukuyomi and than going to confront Naruto. if it was only a hour or two than his eyes were still feeling the effect and if a day or so has passed than his eyes were more or less recovered. @It's not Johnny countered this.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: More like that's how powerful Itachi is and not totsuka, i mean itachi is the one who had to maintain stage 3 susanoo afterall, in the state.When he burned through the toad stomach his sharingan deactivated after just one use of amaterasu and tsukyomi, now to stregthen the second point his eyes didnt really cooldown at all. When he burned the wall, he used two tsukuyomi and one shot of amaterasu>>sharingan deactivated. When up against sasuke he used 1 tsukuyomi and 4 amaterasu >> sharingan remained active. So tsukuyomi is really the chakra consuming tech you would agree?

Nashikeine wrote: first of all, it seems more or less that Susanoo doesnt need MS anymore once the user activates it. take Madara's example for it. he did so when he was blind and even when he was using Rinnegan. Itachi's eyes were not even SHaringan after the useage of Tsukuyomi and 4 Amaterasu. Tsukuyomi should be chakra consuming because he manipaluates time in the genjutsu. Second, the items are the powerful ones. Itachi didnt need to manifest a full half body avatar to use Yata Mirror. he could do same with Totsuka Blade. Yeah....but i was referring to Itachi and his chakra, you said that's how powerful totsuka is,the guy needs susanoo to use totsuka, and it's amazing he maintained it in such a state. Nah his eyes were still mangekyou after using those techs, after he tanked kirin that's when his ms faded. And concerning the weapons, he was shown to use yata mirrior in stage 2 humanoid susanoo, and in the anime he was shown to use a mini version of the totsuka blade.it was shown different in the manga. susanoo then weapons....in the end itachi still gets the credit, not totsuka.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: It's not like Minato would be free, his hands would be full,again not fodder guys. It's the same sasuke that fought the kages xd. Minato would have to focusing on his opponent he can't multitask to such an extent even he panic's as seen in the war, tobirama had to come to his rescue, and hearing the name Madara uchiha all 4 of them would be a little scared, knowing Madara's feats and all.

Nashikeine wrote: that was an example of many ways Sasuke's arrows can be dodged and deflected. Wasn't it kinda poor? besides Minato won't be constantly looking out for these guys like they're rin or obito, they're capable of battling.

Nashikeine wrote: Scared of Madara... You make the Madara of the time before he became a legend with his EMS skills and you talk of him from during the war arc where he has EMS-Rinnegan and Mokuton. Make up your mind. still... With ms, he conquered clans....and was feared, he still fought hashirama with ms. Anyways ignore that.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: That's debateable.

Nashikeine wrote: true. but what i say cannot be completely discounted. Hiruzen showed better feats. Well kinda, he showed better against Juubi Obito, analysing and deducing the way The TSB works. Now who on team uchiha won't accomplish that? maybe except for obito....countering guruguru's tech's was kinda an obvious move since he possesed all 5 releases as well.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Ah he did, he saw the flying raijin seal but did'nt budge, or maybe he just could'nt. He did have an MS but his mastery over is great? that's obviously unclear.

Nashikeine wrote: there is nothing shows that he even saw the seal or even the attack. Indeed Izuna was strong and had great mastery over his SHaringan. he was fighting a war against Senju, which included Tobirama and Hashirama and he was the top guy alongside Madara in their clan. Yea in the anime it was shown that he saw the seal that was placed on one of the many kunais tobirama threw at izuna after they clashed their fire and water release tech. Were'nt they the top dudes because they possesed mangekyou? Well he was'nt good at genjutsu, tobirama and him made eye contact but he still failed to place the guy under genjutsu, if it was shisui or Itachi that would've been RIP tobirama. so that's a hint of izuna's poor mastery of the ms.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Well Kakashi is wrong, cuz bee didn't have a sharingan but he followed and countered it perfectly..providing he could sense the tag which is unlikely since even obito didn't, that doesn't mean he knows where Minato will appear. Maybe slight of hand? idk about this one, but it was countered by bee, and these guys are masters of their Mangekyou (idk about obito).

Nashikeine wrote: B outsmarted Minato. no doubt about that and something Minato praised him for. that didnt mean B saw the attack coming. he guessed it. he knew Minato would attack A from blind side and he intercepted it. he understood feeling the seal that Minato would come for him and so he countered it. Minato's opponent at that time was AY and not BEE, and also there is no way that bee would've known that seal was placed on gyuki's tentacle also he would'nt have suggested an attack coming at him since they already deduced that Minato requires the marked kunais to teleport (thats what they thought only) and no kunai was around bee.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: then Jiraiya entering sage mode without MA and PA will be simply useless,the stance is necessary and of course it will mean something to the uchiha team,jiraiya fighting normal, exchanging hands with sasuke then all of a sudden he summons bunta and enters that stance....hmm pretty suspicious, ''he's up to something wonder what it is? he's a legendary sannin so whatever he's up to will definitely not be good 'o' '', -thats something they'll say, and would obviously try to cancel.

Nashikeine wrote: first of all. you being the OP says that Team Uchiha has 0 knowledge on his abilities, means they dont know him because if he is legendary Sannin than they should know about him, but you still argue back that they will worry about Jiraiya who they know nothing of because he changes his fighting style. They dont know about his abilities, that doesnt mean they dont know who he is. To put it simply itachi and kisame knew about Jiraiya's title as sannin, but did they have any idea about his jutsus? kisame was probably just scared because of all the rumors....just like madara, no know really knew what he was capable of but yet feared him blindly. And dude that's totally valid,him changing his stance will definitely raise suspicion. Itachi crouched down, started weaving signs but sasuke interrupted him by throwing the shadow shuriken at him.....see he prevented the attack without knowing what the hell it is. Now jiraiya being in that stance will be like telling the uchiha's hey attack me

Nashikeine wrote: In that sense Madara who is an arrogant guy would probably wont be bothered by Jiraiya. he wasnt even going at full strength against the Kage in the war until he was sure of their resolve that they wont back out. Obito is nerfed that he would die at some point midway. Sasuke and Itachi can be preoccupied by Hiruzen and Kakashi for the while till Jiraiya goes for SM. Madara was sure of himself then, him being an edo, possessing the rinnegan and wood release...who would be scared and not take things lightly? Amaterasu slaps Hiruzen who is less mobile.

@It's Not Johnny
 * We saw how sound genjutsu can be expelled....using genjutsu on one another, and all of them are uchihas so yayy....ps: don't see Jiraiya going in sage mode.
 * Well it was around that arc,and he did use humanoid susanoo after gaara came. (stage 2 in too)
 * I meant kakashi and jiraiya in base,not sage mode jiraiya vs kakashi in speed.
 * Agree.....my head hurts when trying to decide a winner using fair thinking.

wE'RE Kinda straying away from the topic lol, Itachi and Sasuke would mostly likely team up, with them being brothers and all. They would take on Jiraiya and Kakashi. (dont see this ending well) Minato and Hiruzen would take on Madara and Obito due to Madara's popularity (well-feared)

Almost anything in jiraiya's arsenal gets cocked with amaterasu. -Toads, fire release (can be countered with katon, which would be the better choice), his hair guarding jutsu thingy (where he manipulates his hair to shield from attacks). Kakashi has the least stamina here and chakra. But MS sasuke clearly outmatched and surpassed Kakashi, susanoo arrow ftw. Kakashi loses against Sasuke if they were to fight here, Sasuke joins Itachi in his battle against jiraiya and the brothers will cook him with amaterasu. On the other side, Madara and Obito get's slaughtered horribly against this duo, hiruzen and minato....now it's all down to Itachi and sasuke vs Minato and Hiruzen. ;_; Though they will be drained a little (hiruzen being the most affected due to his age). Since they have knowledge on ftg they'll know what to expect, Minato knowing Hiruzens current health place a seal on Hiruzen to get him out of harms way, then it can go either way from here.