Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-37265641-20181022021850/@comment-34194151-20181120013928

@Loneninja

I suggest you reread my post, like literally. You missed a lot of context. Contrary to popular belief, I simply accept concessions when my argument hasn't even been addressed. normally saying that gets users to better analyze the data and at least actually present a proper counterargument. if i see that the argument has been addressed then we carry on. if you still disagree, that isn't an issue.

Lol, it's pretty funny how you ignore the manga just to downplay a fictional character. Black zetsu literally has seen all of shinobi history and is objectively one of the smartest characters in the show, but now he doesn't know what he is talking about just because you don't want to give itachi the credit he deserves? lmao.

It's obvious. Itachi is only invincible sufficient he can maintain his susano'o. I myself has stated that multiple times. One v one, itachi can certainly compete with some of the god tiers, that much is obvious. Susano'o forms in under a second, the totsuka blade is insanely fast, itachi is smarter than kaguya, and the yata mirror blocks her attacks. Whether or not he actually wins depends on if the totsuka blade can seal her, which is a decision for kishimoto to make, so I don't have an answer for you.

Itachi's weaknesses compound against multiple opponents because again, if he can't maintain susano'o, he is no longer god tier. His stamina limits him. Black zetsu is also fully aware of the undeground weakness, but he also knows itachi is smart enough to know that underground attacks are the weakness, so itachi can easily counter those just like every other character. Like I said, with susano'o he is in the same tier as minato, nagato obito, and also in the same playing field as hashirama and madara. Those 5 characters literally are all the characters just one tier below god tier, so yes Itachi is up there. The yata mirror and totsuka blade pushes him to borderline god tier status because of their hax, his eye techniques, and his intellect. take away the totsuka blade and yata mirror and sure itachi can't do many of the things I have said, but I have no reason to take away items he worked and searched for. So they are apart of his arsenal. Black zetsu still accepts your concession.

I literally could care less if any user here thinks I'm an itachi fanboy just because they can't comprehend simple statements from credible sources. Black zetsu is literally the most credible source in the manga because he was there from start to finish. His statements aren't baseless hype. Even if you are one of those people who think that Black zetsu is a retconned character, it's still irrelevant. why? because what was his role in the akatsuki before the whole kaguya thing? information gathering and espionage. So yes, when he says those spiritual items make itachi invinicible, and when someone like orochimaru dedicated a large amount of their time to finding those items, I take it seriously.

That isn't to say that there aren't a few character combos that would be very problematic and could outlast itachi. an easy example is minato + tobirama. both of them are fast enough and reflexive enough to avoid totsuka blade and they both rival itachi in intellect. so if they FTG about and force him to waste susano'o or simply teleport it away I see itachi losing. so obviously there are logistics and a few rare outliers to itachi's invincibility, but it still comes back to the same issue: itachi's stamina. so you have been debunked.

I even Said obito+ nagato is enough to beat itachi most times because obito is someone itachi can beat 1v1 but he can't beat obito while focusing on nagato. Obito is too fast and can easily bypass the yata mirror and totsuka blade, so again he is just an outlier. itachi can take obito 1v1 but not with someone at the level of nagato also distracting him.

Your nagato point is debunked. kabuto was using the third raikage's raiton reflex boost while controlling him, so while controlling nagato kabuto has nagato's abilitiles and reflexes. Nagato's reflexes couldn't react to the blade, period. like I said, even if itachi can't break chibaku tensei by himself, that is irrelevant now because itachi has the intel now. he won't let nagato use it this time around. and itachi said that because he didn't know what the minimumm damage to destroy the core was. You really just don't get it. I bet you think that itachi would have opted to throw paper bombs instead to test the technique's defenses lol. If it was actually shown that the minimum damage to bust the core required all three techniques, you would have an argument. But since itachi has no intel on how durable the black core is, your argument is rendered mute. itachi was simply being cautious. @Nashikene, That is quite the headcanon there. Itachi literally hasn't been in q serious battle outside of orochimaru ( who he solo'd twice with miminal difficulty, and orochimaru is easily a mid-tier kage), and nagato. As I already stated to loneninja, the fact that the 3 needed their strongest attacks is a falsity. why? because we never saw what itachi's max power yakasa matagama can do. You can clearly see that the matagama itachi used against kabuto and the ones he used against chibaku tensei have a HUGE difference in size, so not sure where the downplay is coming from. Furthermore, killer bee didn't use continous bijuu dama, which is his real strongest attack. You have no proof that all 3 attacks were absolutely necessary. Itachi had zero intel on the core so he had no idea how much damage was necessary, so he used common sense and had each of his allies attack it with their powerful techniques all at once, period.

Furthermore, naruto and killer bee would have been able to turn things around against nagato in my opinion if itachi didn't show up. Yes, they were losing, but naruto literally lost because of information. In his previous battle with pain, he never actually faced the chameleon technique first hand, nor did he ever experience ningendo. furthermore, naruto couldn't use any shadow clones. Nagato literally had all the advantages there, so it made sense naruto would lose. Killer bee on the other hand had zero experience with the rinnegan at the time, so he made understandable mistakes that put him in a bind. if itachi didn't intervene, killer bee would have simply entered full bijuu mode to break free of the restraints nagato had him in. that could possibly give enough of an opening for naruto take his soul back. After that, the battle resets in favour of killer bee and naruto. At that point naruto knows how to counter every one of the other rinnegan techniques. he can better communicate the rinnegan techniques to killer so they can use teamwork, chakra arms to counter shinra tensei. In my opinion, naruto and killer bee are smart enough to develop a strategy to counter the shinra tensei+ preta path combo. naruto didn't get the chance to use his raikage level speed against nagato because he was caught in mid air. If naruto actually touched the ground in that fight, things would have went differently.

What people also forget is that there is also such a thing as fights that can go either way. Just because you saw a character lose in the canon doesn't mean they would lose ten times out of ten, you need to pay attention to why they lost as well. Sometimes it's a simple lack of intel. A classic example would be apparent if you simply watched kakashi's fight with zabuza. Zabuza literally stomped kakashi with bunshinfeints and had him sealed in a water prison. after that, kakashi stomped zabuza by copying his techniques. That fight literally went both ways. it's often the case that between two evenly matched opponents whoever makes the first small mistake loses. kcm naruto (with clones) + killer bee against edo nagato could have gone either way in my opinion. killer bee's ink clone can seal nagato maybe.

And yes itachi has a shot at soloing nagato. he already solo'd him in the canon. Nagato couldn't form a mental reaction to use preta path to absorb the totsuka blade. Even if you think itachi can't break chibaku tensei by himself, that doesn'tchange the fact itachi now knows when it's coming and what it entails. he didn't try to stop the technique before because he didn't have the intel and he was focused on protecting naruto and bee. now he knows about chibaku tensei and can predict the seal with chibaku tensei. Itachi beats nagato with a simple finger genjutsu, which nagato breaks, only to be one shot by totsuka blade as per canon.