Talk:Asura Ōtsutsuki

Asura with SPSM/Power from his dad?
This may be (very) late and I apologize, I didn't know how to add comments in the talk page. I just want to know why Asura is added as a user of Six Paths Sage Mode? Yeah I agree that he uses Six Paths Senjutsu, but Six Paths Sage Mode? What? Isn't that mode unique to Naruto and Naruto alone? Six Paths Sage Mode is the result of Naruto combining the Six Paths Chakra he was given from Hagoromo with his own Senjutsu chakra, hence the toad eyes being part of the cross pupils. One can assume that Asura didn't have Sage Mode. That leads me to my next point, when was it said that Hagoromo gave Asura? I feel like what Hagoromo said is being misinterpreted. Can we please discuss about this? --UltimaDude (talk) 01:04, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Considering that both of Asura's incarnates (Naruto and Hashirama) don't inherently come with Six Paths Senjutsu, means Asura didn't either, but he certainly exhibited it later on as of his usage of Truth Seeking Balls--Elve Talk Page 18:36, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither Asura nor Naruto were able to use Wood Release like Hashirama could, so mentioning Naruto and Hashirama as to say why he was given power is not a really good argument. Asura is the direct descendant of Hagoromo, so why is it hard to believe that he has his own SPS, just a watered-down of Hagoromo's? It's just like Indra's MS looking like a watered-down version of Hagoromo's Rinnegan--UltimaDude (talk) 20:21, March 17, 2016 (UTC)
 * Because SPS isn't an innate Asura incarnate thing, yet Asura came to possess it eventually as of his usage of TSB. Wood Release didn't have anything with Hashirama having been an Asura incarnate as far as we know. Hagoromo said he had given power only to Asura which was a mistake corrected by giving power to both of his 'sons' this time. People argue that this power mentioned given to Asura was leadership of Ninshuu, but if that's the case, then he would have made Naruto and Sasuke both successors to Ninshuu and tell them to spread the teachings, but instead he gave them both actual powers, speaking in the same context as giving power to Asura was mentioned.--Elve Talk Page 13:33, March 18, 2016 (UTC)
 * So what if it isn't an innate Asura thing? It still goes with the Sage's "body" thing as all of his incarnates have. He is the son of the SoSP. Indra didn't get butthurt because Hagoromo gave Asura some of his power, it was because he was given leadership of Ninshuu. It was that decision that Hagoromo regretted. You can use multiple meanings of a word in the same phrase. Hagoromo had no reason to give either of his sons his actual power, just like he had no reason to give Naruto and Sasuke leadership of Ninshuu--UltimaDude (talk) 19:30, March 18, 2016 (UTC)

Well the context pretty much implies it was an actual power. Wouldn't make much sense for someone to reference spaghetti but talk about eggs in the sentence.--Elve Talk Page 09:51, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * What he said is still being taken out-of-context. If Hagoromo really gave Asura, power then he would of said so straight up. But he only mentions handing over the leadership of Ninshuu to Asura and Asura's power blossoming. It was the former that started to whole Indra vs Asura feud and it is that Hagoromo was referring to when mentioning power in regards to his sons--UltimaDude (talk) 18:19, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * Hagoromo was talking about having given power to Naruto and Sasuke stating that it had been a mistake to give power to just Asura and giving power to Sasuke was a correction of said mistake.--Elve Talk Page 18:29, March 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * He gave Asura power, as in authority of Ninshuu, which is what he regretted. Not to mention, Hagoromo didn't say he give the same to Naruto as he supposedly did with Asura. Hagoromo had absolutely no reason to give Asura some of his power. He wanted one of his sons to be his successor of Ninshuu and he chose Asura, which made Indra butthurt, and thus started the brother's feud.--UltimaDude (talk) 19:28, March 19, 2016 (UTC)

Chapters 692, 693--Elve Talk Page 14:33, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * My point still stands. It was Hagoromo's decision to give Asura the leadership of Ninshuu that started the feud and him giving Naruto and Sasuke some of his power that continued the feud until it ended--UltimaDude (talk) 16:55, March 20, 2016 (UTC)
 * Can we also go back to the other part of the question about whether Asura even has Six Paths Sage Mode? Hagoromo is a confirmed user of Six Paths Senjutsu, but not Six Paths Sage Mode. Who's to say Asura can't have it in some other undefined way like his father?--BeyondRed (talk) 03:11, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * @UltimaDude, there's a thing such as reading from context. Doesn't make sense to talk about actual powers given to Naruto and Sasuke in relation to Ninshuu leadership that was given to Asura. Ninshuu is not a power, I thought Asura's philosophy was 'Love' to achieve peace while it was Indra's 'Power' so wouldn't make sense for Hagoromo to call Ninshuu leadership power, since the reason Asura was chosen instead is because of love philosophy in the first place. Hence it's quite obvious that Hagoromo meant having given an actual power to Asura. @Beyond, the two ways to get Six Paths Senjutsu is either to be a Ten-Tails jinchuuriki or be blessed by Hagoromo's power, Asura wasn't Ten-Tails jinchuuriki so just like Naruto who got blessed and got Six Paths Sage Mode, so must have been Asura.--Elve Talk Page 11:02, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except that you're taking things out-of-context. It doesn't make sense for Hagoromo to talk about giving Asura some of his actual power and regret that it caused his son's feud when such a thing happen. Read between the lines. Authority is considered power and it is that power that Hagoromo gave to Asura, not some of his actual power. Hagoromo giving Asura actual power wouldn't make any sense if he himself said that Asura's own power blossomed and it was because he got help from his friends and allies. I agree with BeyondRed. It makes no sense whatsoever to have Asura as a user of SPSM, if he doesn't have/wasn't shown with a chakra cloak and crossed pupils. Asura can use SPS with his own power, just like his dad, since his dad is the freaking Sage of Six Paths. It is just like how Indra can use Perfect Susanoo with only his MS--UltimaDude (talk) 19:33,March 21, 2016 (UTC)

So are we going to continue the discussion? --UltimaDude (talk) 21:02, April 14, 2016 (UTC)

Species
He's mostly human, genetically speaking and physically speaking he looks like a normal human. Shouldn't we classify him as just a human? A hybrid is an offspring from two distinct species and Hagoromo was both human and alien due to Tenji and Kaguya. Since Hagoromo is part human, regardless of whether or not he had an offspring with an Otsutsuki or human, his offspring would not be a hybrid.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 03:08, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe a child gets 50% genes from each parent, so Asura and Indra each had 50% of Hagoromo's genes and he was half alien and I think 25% of someone's genes not being human still makes them hybrids.--Elve Talk Page 10:43, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * You guys do realize that they called Hagoromo and Hamura humans multiple times in the last episode? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:09, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes and Hagoromo and Hamura had no idea their mom came from the sky. They were born among humans to walk with humans. It seems like the only reason it's thought by them and other people that they look different and have powers is because of chakra fruit that Kaguya ate. Later on Hagoromo and Hamura too distant themselves from humankind, with the whole 'Hamura destroy humankind if they start to abuse chakra for bad things' so Hagoromo and Hamura being labeled human by Gamamaru is because they have no idea about Kaguya's origin, Gamamaru says it himself, all he knows is that she came from the sky.--Elve Talk Page 11:37, May 22, 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't his name 'Ashura'?
I remember reading the manga on mangastream and he was always called: Ashura; why does the article has the name Asura instead of Ashura? Just really curious! --&#42;MsIsamisa (talk) 02:42, June 23, 2016 (UTC)
 * See here. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 04:56, June 23, 2016 (UTC)

Wind Affinity
Can we say his affinity is wind (anime only)? It's well known people have an easier time learning their affinity than others.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 23:15, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok... And? Sasuke first learned Fire, but in the anime, his affinity is Lightning...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:30, June 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * He was taught by Fugaku meanwhile Asura tried all the elements and only could use Wind.Cloudtheavenger (talk) 05:43, July 1, 2016 (UTC)

Asura's Rasengan
I admit this and this techniques are wind release, but this technique in episode 468 is clearly Rasengan variation. Should we add Rasengan to his techniques, what do you think?--Mecha Naruto (talk) 15:21, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. He clearly used Rasengan there. 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * ^ What he said. He's an anime-only user of Rasengan (Studio Pierrot were cheap and lazy to put that in) --Sajuuk 15:22, July 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Cerez has a point, even if I disagree. Maaaan, I hate the anime sometimes... 19:19, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Asura's powers
Shouldnt the six paths yin power and six paths yang power be added to his jutsu list. ok, honestly we never really saw him do anything amazing that has anything to do with said powers, but hagoromo did leave all his power to him which includes the power of yin and yang. also these are the same powers he seperated between naruto and sasuke as he did not want a repeat of what happenned asura and indra. --Me1 (talk) 21:21,July 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * The Six Paths Yin and Yang powers are just the seals on the hands, not the same as having Yin Release and Yang Release, which Asura should now have. Also, from we've seen, the seals appear to just be a temporary gift that goes back to Hagoromo once they're used.--BeyondRed (talk) 01:53, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * ^What he said. That would just be adding misinterpreted speculation. 01:59, July 22, 2016 (UTC)

Six paths sage mode
Was it ever stated that Asura had Six Paths Sage Mode? Because if it wasn't, it should be removed. MartinZ02 (talk) 10:51, August 1, 2016 (UTC)
 * Inferred by the statement of Hagoromo giving Asura power, and comparing that to similar looking powers and their requirements. Discussions about it are scattered through relevant talk pages and its archives. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:38, August 1, 2016 (UTC)

Asura didn't receive power and SPSM
Asura didn't get actual power from his dad nor had SPSM. In chapter 670, Hagoromo stated that from training and cooperating with his comrades, Asura awakened his own power that rivals to that of his brother's. So why would Hagoromo meant that he gave Asura some of his own power if it contradicts what he said 23 chapters ago? Also where did it state that Asura obtained SPSM? Was he listed as a user because he had a chakra avatar to something that has nothing to do with the form (Tailed Beast Mode)? Can someone give me valid reasons as to why the wiki states he was given power and why he's listed as a user?--UltimaDude (talk) 22:59, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Truth Seeking Balls/Orbs and also if that avatar thing happens to indeed be bijuu mode, then he must have been given power regardless, unless you believe he was born with bijuu mode. Furthermore, the anime actually shows Hagoromo giving Asura power.--Elve Talk Page 21:20, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * And when Hagoromo is literally giving Naruto and Sasuke powers, he says the difference that time is that he's giving them both instead of just one of the brothers. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:52, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * @Elvenora Asura obtained Truth-Seeking Balls on his own just like Hagoromo and his brother. In the same chapter where the chakra avatar was introduced, Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and cooperated with his comrades to awaken his dormant power that matched that of his brother's. No where did he state that he gave Asura power or that Asura became friends with Kurama. So I see no reason why Asura formed the avatar other than from his own power. The anime is completely irrelevant. @Omnibender If Hagoromo meant that he literally gave Asura his own power, then it would contradict what he said 23 chapters ago. Obviously he meant political power/authority (leadership over Ninshuu) which is what made Indra jelly. Why can't you see that?--UltimaDude (talk) 22:05, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't. Asura reached power rivaling that of his brother naturally, through hard work and dedication, but nowhere does it state that his power didn't eventually surpass that of Indra, after having received a buff perhaps.

Furthermore, 1 of Asura's reincarnates, Hashirama, extremely powerful and talented awakened no Six Paths Senjutsu, while 2nd known incarnate, known for hard work and dedication also awakened no SPS, no... It had to be given to him, there is zero evidence SPS is part of Asura's birthright.--Elve Talk Page 22:31, February 5, 2017 (UTC)
 * Extremely weak argument considering that Hagoromo obtained Six Paths Senjutsu and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own with out becoming a TTJ, something Senjus, Uzumakis, and Uchihas can only dream of doing. Saying Hagoromo gave actual power to Asura is contradicting what he said about 20 chapters prior.--UltimaDude (talk) 01:42, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * It's not an argument, it's a fact. Hagoromo might or might not have awakened SPS on his own (we don't know it as a fact if he did, so stop saying it as if we do) but SPS certainly isn't part of what Asura inherited, those being his father's strong life force and physical energy.

Furthermore, SPS, if naturally awakened by Asura, wouldn't have put him on par with Indra, since the Mangekyou Sharingan as powerful as it can be, doesn't compare and measure to Six Paths Senjutsu, the Rinnegan does. In other words, if SPS for Asura had been natural, then the two weren't equals, because Asura would have been much stronger. Therefore you can deduce Asura was an equal without Six Paths Senjutsu and Bijuu Mode or whatever that is and there is zero canonical evidence that he had those naturally, thus he must have been literally given power by Hagoromo.--Elve Talk Page 10:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Facts, my behind. We literally seen Hagoromo (from Kaguya's memories) and Hamura (from a flashback in The Last) have Truth-Seeking Balls. Where and how else will they get them without ever interacting with the the Ten-Tails' chakra? Six Paths Senjutsu certainly fits the "strong life force/physical energy/body" motif. What are even saying? You claimed that if Asura naturally had SPS, he would be stronger, then you go on saying that he was given power from Hagoromo. Suppose that Hagoromo did indeed give actual power to Asura, it would be in the form of SPS, and with that he and Indra still mutually destroyed each other. You are basically contradicting yourself. But regardless, these are the facts:

Not to mention, you say that Asura with SPS couldn't be equal to Indra who had just the MS. But do you not recall DMS Kakashi who was able to fend off against Kaguya and did more damage to her than Sasuke? Indra is the son of Hagoromo and was stated to have inherited his powerful chakra, so it makes sense that he and Asura were equals. So tell me, what evidence do you possibly have against all the ones I listed?--UltimaDude (talk) 21:36, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hagoromo and Hamura had Truth-Seeking Balls without interacting with the Ten-Tails' chakra
 * Hagoromo stated that Asura trained and learned to cooperated with his friends which awakened his dormant power that rival that of Indra's. And within the same chapter, we see Asura's chakra avatar wielding Truth-Seeking Balls and battling Indra's PS
 * Asura obtaining leadership over Ninshuu was what made Indra butthurt and started the feud between the brothers
 * The databook didn't list Asura as a user of SPSM
 * There was absolutely no reason for Hagoromo to give Asura literal power
 * Look son, I completely debunked your 'logic' so I understand your portrayal of frustration. I've never denied that Hagoromo was seen wielding TSB before becoming jinchuuriki and that Hamura had them too, I'm not stupid, son. What I'm unsuccessfuly so far trying to explain you here, is that Asura's birth inheritance has never been stated to be SPS. Strong life force and physical energy equaling SPS is a delusion right out your ass, son. Also his incarnates showed no SPS no matter the amount of hard work and dedication, repeating myself here, since your eyes must have completely dodged reason when they saw it.

But back to Hagoromo and Hamura, figure that perhaps, Hamura was the one born with SPS and Hagoromo received it from him, having been gifted by Hamura. Or perhaps Kaguya gifted them before she went fully insane, or perhaps Santa came on a flying reindeer and brought it for them. There is too many unknowns about that, but Madara, someone who literally recreated Hagoromo's chakra din't have SPS until he became a jinchuuriki, so there's that, son.--Elve Talk Page 22:13, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hahaha, so you are completely ignoring what has been stated and shown, figures. You have yet to bring in actual evidence that disproves my points, but instead bring up extremely flimsy explanations. Your argument is just as ridiculous as your "Asura was Kurama's jinchuriki". You only have one job and one job only. Give. Me. Proof. Now can you please do it properly like a good boy? --UltimaDude (talk) 22:23, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * Since you were the one who brought it up, the burden of proof is on your shoulders and so far, has been severely lacking, son. In fact I have more evidence. When Toneri recreated the Tenseigan, thus Hamura's power, he received the Truth Seeking Balls, while Madara, who recreated the Rinnegan, thus Hagoromo's power, didn't receive any Truth Seeking Balls.

Explain that, son.--Elve Talk Page 22:30, February 6, 2017 (UTC) Co
 * I already gave you a ton of facts, but you of course ignore it. To answer your question. The Rinnegan is only a part of Hagoromo's powers. The other part is obtained via the SP Ten-Tails Coffin Seal, hence why TTJs tend to look like the Sage. Now, address the facts I brought up. --UltimaDude (talk) 22:46, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * You explained nothing. If Hagoromo had SPS before becoming TTJ as power that's part of his chakra, then why didn't Madara, who recreated Hagoromo's chakra?--Elve Talk Page 23:08, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * I like how you keep ignoring the list of facts I have above. As I said, Madara recreated only a part of Hagromo's power when he awakened the Rinnegan. --UltimaDude (talk) 23:38, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * The Canon states that he recreated the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra.--Elve Talk Page 23:41, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
 * And canon states and shows that Asura awakened the chakra avatar and Truth-Seeking Balls on his own. Did it actually say that Madara obtained the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra. If Kaguya had Six Paths Senjutsu, then Hagoromo also had it on his own.--UltimaDude (talk) 23:56, February 6, 2017 (UTC)