Talk:Sasuke Uchiha

QUESTIONS REGARDING TOPICS ALREADY IN THE TALK PAGE OR ITS ARCHIVES WILL BE REMOVED, ALONG WITH THE REPLIES TO IT

Concerning the Mangekyō Sharingan section
As I said in the summary of it's edit before: "Paragraphs and images—especially his first final Susanoo—were placed in that manner to form some semblance of event order. Topics are being mentioned prior to their descriptions." It comes off as a bit jumbled, which is why I tried to re-arrange it the way I did. Concerning the image of Sasuke's final Susanoo, I found it more appropriate to display his first rendition, as it was not only mentioned prior to the the summary of his Eternal Mangekyō, but because there's already a fine example of his Eternal Mangekyō version present in the War Arc section.

Lots of quips like that throughout the article, but I was focusing on those present in his Dōjutsu section, as that interests me most... Also, slightly unrelated, but when using the term Sannin, it should be used to describe all three of them, not individually. —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 08:56, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * ... Er, to clarify: I would simply like to re-instate the format for the Mangekyō Sharingan section as it was in this revision: ... Any input, please? —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 16:55, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except here's the thing...we've organized the section in a way that all three techniques have their own sub-section if you will, displaying the development of each technique...in regards to Sasuke's final Susanoo...it's most complete version of the technique shown so far, which is why it's on display.
 * Also the term Sannin, defines two things...group name and an unofficial rank. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:56, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * The detail of each technique's development was left intact in my revision. Only the changes affected by the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan were partitioned to it's portion of the section. In my opinion, it comes off more coherent to:
 * Relay the abilities of his Mangekyō Sharingan.
 * How they affected him.
 * And how his acquisition of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan changed any of that.
 * It serves to better distinguish his own eyes' power, from what is changed, or gained from exchanging them for Itachi's... Which is also part of the reason I wish to leave the image of Sasuke's older final Susanoo intact; the other part being that it is so underexposed that many are under the impression that Sasuke's Susanoo didn't gain the ability to conjure up Amaterasu's black flames until he took Itachi's eyes. It is, ultimately, a very small matter, but it still bugs the heck out of me. :P


 * And "Sannin" is never used to identify Jiraiya, Orochimaru, or Tsunade individually. Jiraiya, of course, is referred to as "Sennin", which many fans have mixed up with the term coined for all three of the former teammates for years... —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 18:46, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Your revision leaves it too far spread to me...and likely most of the other users view it better like it is:
 * Denoting the look of the Mangekyo
 * Explaning the drawbacks.
 * Displaying each technique and their according development.

Sennin is a translation of Sage, which both Jiraiya and Oro are...there is no confusion in that. And yes it is used to identify them, since it was the term that marked their rise to battle fame as shinobi. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:06, July 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Arguing over the terms used is pointless. The reason he is referred to as "Sannin" is because he is one of the three. It doesn't matter if they were ever referred to individually as such, though I recall on numerous occasions him being referred to as "one of the three Sannin". Secondly, your revisions are far too spread. It goes into unnecessary detail about the appearance of the Mangekyō, when only a basic, standard description is needed, which is what we have, followed by how the Mangekyō developed; its drawbacks, the techniques Sasuke developed or learned, and what he can do with them. The current revision is detailed just enough to give us an idea on what he can do with it, without it becoming long winded. We don't need to write a book on Sasuke's Mangekyō, just give readers a general idea on what he can do with it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:19, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ten Tailed Fox, compared to the current revision, my own possessed approximately 400 less characters. Initially, only around 200 characters were added from my attempted rehaul of the section. The "book", as you say, was already there; my intention was only to rearrange it's contents to avoid the sporadic mention of abilities, and more coincide with the order of events. With that in mind, I'm curious as to why my summary came off as so long winded to you.


 * "Sannin" = "Three Nin". If you saw any translations depicting any one of them as a Sannin, or "one of the three Sannin", they would be inaccurate. The point of my bringing up "Sennin", which it seems Darksusanoo missed, is that the usage of both terms have been—and are still being mixed up; which is part of the problem. Jiraiya(and Orochimaru) may be a Sennin, but he is not a Sannin. It's a very simple matter, which is why I couldn't help but scratch my head when the correction was reverted. —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 03:03, July 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh boy, I can see this is going to be a long one. *sigh* Look, the translations aren't wrong, and you're making a big deal out of something that shouldn't be. There are three Sannin, which indeed means "Three Ninja". Orochimrau, Tsunade, and Jiraiya. Any one of those three are still a Sannin. They have always been referred to as such. When Jiraiya was introduced (I have the Viz, I have read the scanalations, and I'm sure we still have ShonenSuki's translation of the RAW Japanese around here somewhere), he is introduced as one of the "three Sannin". So is Tsunade, at one point in time, and I believe even Orochimaru was referred to as "a Sannin". We won't change the term because it means "Three Ninja". It could mean "Ten-Million Ninja" for all we care. It is the name of a group, as well as the title of its three members. Therefore, they are "Sannin", both collectively and individually. I'll say it again, arguing over a specific term gets us nowhere. It doesn't matter if its grammatically correct or not, that is how the series refers to them, that is how the fans refer to them, and that is how we refer to them. Its as simple as that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:09, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Additionally: The reason your edit seems long winded to me is that most of it was taking time to describe the Mangekyō Sharingan's shape, which I believe, if I remember the Undo correctly, you called an "atom symbol", which is actually less descriptive and more speculative than what we have now. Also, I'm not disputing the fact that your edit was done to make an improvement, but the way we have it now is fine. It lays it out in a flowing order, which is easy to understand, isn't convoluted, and does exactly what the section is intended to do; describe Sasuke's ability. The phrase, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" comes to mind. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:14, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Very well. My grammar police badge seethes, but you can consider the Sannin matter dropped. Same with the revision, though I'd just like to say that, along with a few other extraneous details, I did omit the mention of his Mangekyō Sharingan's atom resemblance after that Undo; it was something I placed in the description of it's dedicated article beforehand, and decided it would be better left there. Anyways, thank you both for taking the time to explain your side of things. I shall now proceed to find a corner for myself to fiercely pout in. >:I —SaiST Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg「talk 14:10, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke's Age
I know 643 is hasn't been added to the wikia yet, but when it is should we change Sasuke's age in Part II to 15-17? Naruto said he was 16 during his fight with Pain, and Obito said tomorrow in 643 is Naruto's birthday, meaning Naruto will be turning 17 tomorrow. If that is the case, Sasuke, who was born before him, should be 17 already right? Omega64 (talk) 06:44, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes that is true but "Do not add new information if the manga chapter is not fully released yet." So yes as you thought, we should wait until the chaoter is fully released and added to the wiki. 07:05, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * We should update ages of all characters with known birthdays using Naruto's birthday as a template--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * But we cannot add it if the chapter in which Naruto's birthday is has not been fully released yet. 12:45, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I mean once it's out. I brought this up many times but some people oppose for whatever senile reason they have. If we know x character has birthday 10th October and has another birthday, we know EVERY SINGLE character born before the date has aged as well.--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

That would be nearly everyone. Hinata, Lee, Sai and some others excluded. Seelentau 愛議 13:12, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds like lots of work for sure, but leaving it not-updated will cause trouble. Like people will think there's more age difference between Naruto and x other character, if we change his to 17 but keep everyone else' the same--Elveonora (talk) 13:25, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I still don't know if it's a good idea to give ages without databook sources, though. :/ Seelentau 愛議 13:26, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know why it shouldn't be while we know it's correct. We may be waiting for 4th databook to come out after another timeskip for all we know or never.--Elveonora (talk) 13:31, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it's against me idea of what should be added to an article and what should not. But on the other hand, it's logical to add it, since Naruto's birthday is Year 0 and even my whole timeline is based on it... How old was Neji when he died? Seelentau 愛議 13:36, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm of the same mind as Seen for one reason. If we change everyone's ages and then, the databook comes out and somehow we're wrong, then, not only have we been misinforming the users/readers, as you seem to be so concerned of doing now, Elve-kun, but we also have to go back and change them all over again. To me, it makes more sense to use databooks (sans, obviously, Naruto whom "tomorrow" in the manga, we know for sure he's 17) because they give you a straight up age. [Character name] is [this many years old]. There will be no need for us to guess, assume, hope, etc. And a databook is likely to come out. Its not like Kishi is just gonna make three and then go "lol, nope. They're gonna have to suffer through without this one." He'll at least make one more. Since it seems the manga is wrapping up, he may be waiting until closer to the end, or after the end to wrap things up and tie up any remaining loose endings. Then we'd have everyone's definite, final ages. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 13:38, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * There's no way for us to be wrong though, unless Kishimoto has changed birth dates of hundreds of characters. This is children logic and math here, no way to burn ourselves. The thing is, not updating their ages is misinforming as well. Sasuke is older than Naruto, but if we update just the latter's, that will make us lying that it's the other way around. Goes for everyone, let's say Naruto was 3 years older than x character according to 3rd databook, yet a year later, he is suddenly 5 years older, right, that's not misinforming and purposely leaving out information--Elveonora (talk) 13:46, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Elve, I'm saying its going to make for one big heck of a headache if we just start changing ages. Especially for these anons, like the one on Itachi's page, that think the ages are wrong already. Now all of a sudden we're trying to guess ages, and pray to God we're right, when we only know Sasuke and Naruto for sure (I'll give you Sasuke since we saw him as infant prior to Naruto's birth). It would make more sense to go off a concrete source, like a databook, rather than change everyone's ages and pray to all that is good and holy that we did something right. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 13:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

"tear drop" I'm not saying otherwise, we can go by 3rd databook's ages and just add 1 year to everyone born prior to October 10--Elveonora (talk) 13:56, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bump, this one seriously needs concludin' --Elveonora (talk) 17:38, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * I rather comment on this one than the other one. Since Kishimoto isn't that good with math, I believed he mentioned that, maybe the characters' ages are 16 - 17 instead of 15 - 16. If we put 15 - 17, than those just joining/visiting the wiki, will be confused and believe that their is another timeskip that we aren't covering. Maybe we could put "16 - 17." --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:38, August 24, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Age
According to chapter 643, Naruto's birthday is the next day. Since Sasuke is a few months older than Naruto, isn't Sasuke already 17? --Kakashi Namikaze (retired) - talk 17:20, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * So should it be added? I will go ahead and do it. And shouldn't Naruto's be added if this is the case, seeming as the whole chapter is now out.  18:19, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * What and why? ~ Ultimate  Supreme  18:23, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well we now know Sasuke and Naruto are 17 according to this chapter... Therefore should it be added to the infobox? 18:32, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * More precisely, we know it's October 10th in Narutoverse.--Elveonora (talk) 18:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Same thing. 19:09, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Unless we're only getting the age from databooks, I see no problem with adding it. Joshbl 56  20:21, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed as to Naruto and Sasuke; but only when the chapter comes out for the "next day" in the manga world. As currently, its the night of October 9th; so only Sasuke is 17. Any other characters, leave their ages alone until a databook comes out. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:54, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Technically, knowing the date and the age of one character, it does mean he can stipulate the age of some other characters. Pretty much every one from Naruto's year can have their age updated if necessary, every person who we know the age difference from Naruto and the birthday can have it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:47, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * ^That is true. Just a quick check shows that most of the rookie 9 and team Guy could have their age updated if we do this. Joshbl  56  23:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * @Omni: I know that. I'm not saying Elve is wrong, I actually agree that several characters have aged. I'm just really wanting to be cautious about tampering with ages. Especially since lately, the number of anon we've had around here trying to change ages (Itachi's being prime example) based of some absurd forum conjecture has been high lately and its likely to start those debates all over again. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:38, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right. The thing is, I raised Sasuke in particular because Kushina's flashback confirmed that Sasuke was born before Naruto, so that is a given. But consistency too is important. --Kakashi Namikaze - talk 14:11, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

So when the chapter comes out are they going to be alot more edits dones to different characters apart from the konoha 11 then? -- Root 根  09:45, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bump-- Root 根  17:59, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Naruto's age, obviously, wont change until that entire chapter comes out. But Sasuke has already aged, so don't see a reason as to why his age cannot be changed. ~ Ultimate  Supreme  15:51, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Should we put 16-17 instead 15-17? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 17:57, August 25, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * No. 15-17 means he was 15 during his first appearance in Part II. and two years have passed--Elveonora (talk) 18:42, August 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Than that means everyone from Jan 1st - Oct. 9th has aged. :P --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:55, August 25, 2013 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Gaara, Naruto and Sakura were 15 when shippuden started, each born january, march and october. So that means EVERYONE was a younger age than databook 3 ages except Konohamaru, Lee, Sai, and Hinata were even younger than the Herobooks ages. It has been roughly 1.6 years since Shippuden started ItachiWasAHero (talk) 21:16, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Adding/Changing Images
Hi. I have two images from episode 326 that I would like to add to Sasuke Uchiha, but I can't for some reason. They are the anime versions of his New Susano'o and Eternal Mangekyo. Would someone help me out here please. --LokeTheBrave (talk) 15:18, August 22, 2013 (UTC)LokeTheBrave


 * Those images have already been uploaded added to the page.... --Speysider Talk Page 16:01, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thats odd, I didn't see them when I checked earlier. Thanks though.--LokeTheBrave (talk) 16:16, August 22, 2013 (UTC)LokeTheBrave

EMS image
I think it'd be better to use the manga photo until we have a better anime shot of his eye, wouldn't it? The old one shows the design up close, but now we have the same problem as the photo of Madara's Rinnegan, in that it isn't so much a photo of the eyes, but rather a photo of his face while he happens to have the eyes active. Thoughts? --M4ND0N (talk) 18:42, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I doubt a better shot is going to come up for some time yet. I'd say keep the anime image that's there and, if an alternative that shows the EMS better comes up, switch them out. Just how we switch out manga images when anime images become available that depict whatever. Plus, if people can't see the image clearly, they can just click it and view it in the lightbox. --Speysider Talk Page 18:48, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that having a "photo of the face with the eyes activated" is actually very good as a character article. If an image is needed for the design in their eye, then the overview page with it's gallery does nicely.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:01, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Not if you can barely see the eyes and it's mostly their face. The manga image was perfect because the panel it was ripped from was used in a similar manner to his Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan images. Simply having color isn't a good enough reason to change it imo, especially when the artwork on the anime photo is cheaply done and in my eyes at least, bad. [no pun intended]. But it's your call, I'm just saying the manga photo did it's job to show Sasuke's EMS, and did it better if what we're looking for is an actual photo of the eye itself and not a zoomed out photo of his face where you can barely see said eye unless you click on the image. --M4ND0N (talk) 20:10, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with the picture. I can see it just fine.--LokeTheBrave (talk) 21:39, August 22, 2013 (UTC)LokeTheBrave

You could see Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan just fine before without enlarging the image. Even then, I'd still argue that the anime's depiction was sub-par. The prior image was also more fitting as a side-by-side comparison to Sasuke's old Mangekyō Sharingan. I also believe the prior manga image should be retained until we get a more appropriate image from teh anime. —「SaiST」Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg 00:02, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

If we need an anime image that much couldn't we use the depiction of the scene from opening 12? I'm sure there's a creditless version and the artwork is superior to the episode counterpart. I'm not sure how it bodes for our policies but if that's not an option I agree, the manga image is better for now. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:40, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think we'd be allowed to use that M4ND0N but it would be good if we could -- Root 根  17:58, August 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * What ROOT 根 said. Images taken from the credits do not count and are not allowed. The anime photo stays because, like TU3 said, the picture is fine for the page. An image showing the actual design of the EMS belongs on the MS page in the gallery. --Speysider Talk Page 19:45, August 24, 2013 (UTC)

Episode 326
I believe the animators did three things wrong in this episode. First mistake, I'm glad they finally showed Sasuke but he shouldn't have been shown until the end possibly because in the manga when Kishimoto finally revealed his Eternal Mangekyo it was at the end of a chapter. Second Mistake is that Sasuke shouldn't have left the hideout this early I don't think, it was much later in the manga when he left it. Final mistake, when he left the hideout his eyes were black, but in the original colored manga page they were Sharingan. Has anyone noticed these mistakes? If so comment and let me know if you agree or disagree. I really dislike the idea of the animators making such obvious mistakes like that. --LokeTheBrave (talk) 04:39, August 23, 2013 (UTC)LokeTheBrave
 * Pretty much sure that anime does not strictly follow manga. ~ Ultimate  Supreme  04:59, August 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Majority of it does though. Excluding the fillers. They never follow the manga.--LokeTheBrave (talk) 05:03, August 23, 2013 (UTC)LokeTheBrave
 * It's just simple animation errors... --Speysider Talk Page 07:50, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Dr. Snakes
In chapter 579, Itachi called Sasuke "Dr Snakes" when Sasuke described the attributes of a snake. Can this be added to the list of Sasuke's names and nicknames in the infobox?Sparxs77 (talk) 14:24, September 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Find your answer here.  http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png  (Contact) 16:03, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke has Naruto's chakra
Naruto's transferred chakra powers up the Shinobi he gives. Sasuke's Susano'o grew legs and grew in size after receiving it. Look at Madara's Full bodied Complete Susano'o, its no where near the size of Sasuke's current one when he has the cloak.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:10, September 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, i have to say that I agree with you. It manifested legs only after the power boost from Naruto's chakra. Look at the other cases: Kakashi and Kamui, Hinata and the Vacuum Palm, Nara clan and their Shadow Possession Techniques; Sasuke is no exception. We know his Susano'o evolves through hatred or intense feelings, but none of that was there. The only evidence we can point to is Naruto's chakra transfer. Senju_Symbol.svgKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 20:21, September 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Right. I'll re-add it due to Naruto's chakra transfer.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 20:44, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

While its definitely true that naruto's chakra powers up techniques dramatically, its impossible to say whether or not sasuke can do it on his own. And no, sasuke's susanoo is smaller than madara's. Madara's is the size of kurama's original size, while sasuke's is the size of kurama now. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 08:30, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its his Complete Susanoo which is made larger by Naruto's Chakra compared to Madara's Complete Susanoo. You're confusing the stages of Susanoo, Madara's only gets as large as Kurama's size while in its Final form.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 08:32, September 20, 2013 (UTC)

Susanoo Subsection
I was wondering if we could add a subsection under the Mangekyo Sharingan section that is purely devoted to the Susanoo. I fighured this would be okay since the Susanoo is such an important part of his current fighting style. I also propose that we add the same subsection for Itachi and Madara as well. KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 03:01, September 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * Susanoo itself is just a extension of his Mangekyo Sharingan. It doesn't need a whole section dedicated to it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:03, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

New stuff to add to page
He can use senjutsu with ease, is using senjutsu susanoo, and can use senjutsu susanoo and normal susanoo with his normal sharingan, all of this as of chapter 648, can someone add to the page please? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:38, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Technically its a Cursed Seal Susano'o and he's only doing it with Jugo's Sage Transformation helping him. He's not using true Senjutsu.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:40, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Even still it is still senjutsu and he used to it according to Oro. Also the susanoo usage with only 3 tomoe sharingan needs to be added regardless. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:42, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wrong. Its the Cursed Seal, NOT Senjutsu. I think you're misinterpreting things.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:50, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

..the cursed seal is Orochimaru's senjutsu chakra.. in this case it is Jugo's Senjutsu Chakra... essentially making a Senjutsu Susanoo. I am not wrong and yes it IS cursed seal form.. but as I explained it is still Senjutu.. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 19:56, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Jugo mixed his Senjutsu chakra with Sasuke's Susanoo, that's all. Sasuke ain't using any Senjutsu--Elveonora (talk) 20:35, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Susanoo essentially is made of Sasuke's Chakra though right? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 20:56, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what Susanoo is, physical manifestation of chakra/user's avatar/chakra exoskeleton whatever you name it.--Elveonora (talk) 22:07, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke himself is not using anything with natural energy or senjutsu chakra. Jūgo is the one adding it to Sasuke's technique. Think collaboration jutsu. This is no different from Tsunade giving Ōnoki tons of chakra for massive Dust Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:25, September 25, 2013 (UTC)

Ok now what about the other thing I mentioned, the fact he is using Susanoo without Mangekyo Sharingan. He is only using 3 tomoe sharingan right now. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 04:22, September 26, 2013 (UTC)