Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-34656247-20181008062436/@comment-6769189-20181011104846

CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero

Nowhere was it stated that raikiri makes you as fast as lightning. They clearly told us in the canon that natural lightning is unevadeable (at least for characters below A4 at the time), and that happened during the same fight sasuke was using chidori against itachi. We don't know the context in which kakashi cut the lightning bolt. He could have simply been out during a thunderstorm running out with raikiri, and he could have been in the right place with the right timing. Sure, it takes speed to hit it, but that doesn't mean he is as fast as lightning. again timing and positioning matter too. When was it stated that natural lightning was unevadable? Kakashi stopped False Darkness using 2 Raikiris when it was a few feet from Shikamaru and Choji.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

And I can throw this back at you, what is the minimum amount of damage to destroy the chibaku tensei core? Until you prove that, this is a stalemate. You are the one claiming it can, so burden of proof is on you. 6 Tail Naruto couldn’t take it out, and this was coming from a Pain that wasn’t even full strength. Unless you are implying that Itachi is 7 Tailed Beast level or stronger then I don’t see how Yasaka Magatama is helping

CombatIQmatters wrote:

We don't even know how much damage his full power yakasa matagama is capable of, but if itachi calls it his strongest long range attack, it obviously isn't fodder. The matagama he used against the core was about the same size as killer bee's bijuu dama. Size=/=Power CombatIQmatters wrote: Alive Nagato IC is more likely to open with summoning jutsu anyway, he summons his dogs and whatever else as itachi forms susano'o, then he gets blitzed by totsuka Preta Path Counter

CombatIQmatters wrote:

since kishimoto already showed us he can't mentally react to the blade even in his strongest form to date. And when was this?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Itachi has no speed feats? You cited evidence from a fight where we know he was jobbing like everyone knows he was jobbing hard to sasuke. We have clear character statements from kakashi and kurenai acknowledging his speed. In part 1 CombatIQmatters wrote:

We have clear evidence of itachi keeping up with a perfect sage. Not really. Kabuto speedblitzed the ever-unliving crap out of him in 587-586 CombatIQmatters wrote:

hell, hebi sasuke acknowledged itachi's speed. itachi kept up with killer bee as well. Hebi Sasuke who kept up with him just fine? Killer Bee who wasn’t going all out and Edo Itachi who wasn’t hindered by stamina or illness?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Sick itachi used multiple mangeyko techniques and handled the strain just fine when he pushed himself. He has plenty of time to finishing coughing off blood and rest after the pains are dead. hell, be basically nearly outlasted hebi sasuke. we have clear evidence of the totuska blade's speed as well. Sick Itachi at full stamina was keeling over and coughing up blood and a Tsukuyomi and 2 Amatrasus. He was not handling it just fine.

CombatIQmatters wrote:

Itachi is always using layers when he fights. The only time we don't see him using layers is when he is strong enough to one shot his opponent immediately, or he lacks complete killing intent. Literally, let's go through his fights. Part one kakashi, weaves a water-style jutsu and a kage bunshin seal in his robe and sheathes shurikens all before kakashi could even blink. The water style goes off and kakashi barely blocks in time, and itachi didn't even throw the shurikens, showing he was clearly holding back. kakashi thought the shurikens were the ruse but that wasn't even the ruse, it was the water style attack. the shadow clone was itachi's true purpose. The shadow clone spawns behind kakashi. Clones don’t spawn like that, they never have. They spawn next to the user. CombatIQmatters wrote:

Kakashi always uses a clone when he fights, so no surprise that he used a clone while he was hidden in the water wall. Then itachi clone substitutes and explodes his clone. Every single ninja cycles through attacks until one works, that is literally how fights work... That doesn't diminish itachi in anyway. Deidara, one shotted by genjutsu. orochimaru, one shotted by genjutsu and a kunai, leaves akatsuki. orochimaru one shotted by totsuka blade. Nagato one shotted by totsuka blade lol. no strategy needed in these fights, low diff wins. Kabuto? itachi holding back, can't go for kill, and was setting up izanami, which has specific requirements. killer bee? itachi distracted him with shuriken and tricked him into looking into his eyes, which is a win in my book. tsykuyomi would have one-shotted. Killer bee barely reacted to the shurikens itachi threw while bee was in the genjutsu, and shurikens aren't even close to being itachi's fastest attack. even in his fight with sasuke, itachi was still showing some glimmers of his usual tactical prowess. Using crow clones to spawn crows and distract sasuke to catch him in tsykyomi. using amaterasu on his own fireball technique. The list goes on. So Itachi has only shown the ability to plan more than 2 moves in advanced once?

CombatIQmatters wrote:

I know this mobility excuse for nagato was coming, but unfortunately it's completely irrelevant. Nagato has preta path and shinra tensei. Last I check, those require a mental reaction, not mobility. He got roflblitzed by the totsuka blade the same way orochimaru did. if he can't react, there is no way his slower pains are reacting, so my battle simulation still stands. Itachi doesn't need resources to beat pain. Nagato has to actually see an attack coming to react to it. All uses of Preta Paths, ninjutsu absorption require body movement and Shinra Tensei wouldn’t necessarily protect him from. Preta path ain't absorbing susano'o because he isn't reacting to the totsuka blade in the first place. the totsuka blade is his element of surprise. In the scenario you presented he absolutely can. Totsuka can may be able to instastab on formation but after the first 1 Nagato will be on the defensive and there is a 1/6 Preta is the first to go CombatIQmatters wrote:

his bunshin feint spawning behind naraka is his other element of surprise. We have seen multiple times that skilled users of kage bunshin can control where their clones form. Itachi did it to kakashi. even kid naruto could spawn clones behind zabuza's water clone. This never happened. Shadow Clones form next to the user or next to their clones but there is no instance ever shown where a clone is formed more than a few feet from the user or their clone. The real Itachi stabbed Kakashi, not his clone CombatIQmatters wrote: this battle is a fair battle, so it isn't starting at a distance greater than 30 feet. Itachi runs towards the pains as close as he needs to while protected by susano'o and then spawns the clone behind naraka path who is standing in the back. Then it's the beginning of the end. Well we already know this isn’t happening.

Itachi isn't getting pulled out of susano'o because that has only happened when susano'o itself was unable to move. Notice how gaara restrained madara's susano'o with sand first and then pulled madara out. why? because we have seen that susano'o follows the user in other cases. even if itachi gets pulled out, susano'o is still in play and can still be controlled and can launch the totsuka blade. Unless Pain Shinra Tensei’s Susanoo and uses another Pain/Summon to pull Itachi

CombatIQmatters wrote:

and itachi isn't exactly defenseless without susano'o. He gets pulled out and he starts using ninjutsu, and can use his crow style substitution technique that saved him against sage kabuto. If kakashi has the time to use a chain while being pulled, itachi can weave signs. Substitution would only work if he has it set up before-hand. If he gets yanked from Susanoo he doesn’t have it set up. CombatIQmatters wrote:

And you disregarded my point that itachi used 3 crow clones. one to put a crow in naruto. one to tell sasuke where to find him, another one during his fight with sasuke. he split his stamina 3 times and still nearly outlasted sasuke, and even used all of his MS techniques, including more than one amaterasu, and a few katons. Crow clones are not Shadow Clones CombatIQmatters wrote:

I have no reason to believe a fresh sick itachi can't use susano'o and amaterasu/tsykuyomi simultaneously if he needs to early on. There is no evidence that making one shadow clone cripples him like you claimed. Shadow Clone+Susanoo+Amaterasu cripples him. By using the Shadow clone he has enough chakra to pull off half of what he could against Sasuke. sick itachi is in kakashi's tier of stamina, and he has an edge because his sharingan doesn't drain him the way kakashi's does, and kakashi wasn't crippled from using one raiton shadow clone against pain. After using the Raiton Shadow Clone Kakashi stated he was down to half chakra. After that he used 1 Raikiri and subsequently got his shit kicked in. then died from chakra exhaustion after 1 Kamui. CombatIQmatters wrote:

The crow clone technique doesn't quite split the user's chakra in half, but using it 3 times definitely should come close to doing so given that the clones have been shown to be able to use techniques. No evidence to back this claim CombatIQmatters wrote:

Lol, are we entertaining that itachi is weaker than pain in taijutsu? Itachi has a MS to see pain's attacks better, we have seen how the sharingan gives one a huge boost in taijutsu skills, obito accredited some of his success against a taijutsu master, Might Gai, to the sharingan. Itachi is quicker and faster than pain. Pain is decent at taijutsu but nothing special. while itachi has shown great skill with shurikenjutsu and taijutsu. pain's rod isn't tagging him in CQC. Shuriken Jutsu? Against a dude who can shoot rockets and lasers? Shurikenjutsu has never been more irrelevant CombatIQmatters wrote:

Like I said, pain is barely faster than kakashi, and itachi is objectively faster than kakashi in every way. Kakashi wasn never impressed by pain's physical speed, yet he commended itachi's. In Part 1 CombatIQmatters wrote:

We don't know when ashura path started moving to save deva, so that can't be used as a speed feat. CH. 423 p10 Asura is nowhere around while Kakashi is barely an arm’s length away from Deva. On page 11 he was there and he would have been visible on p10 if he was close.