Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation

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Second Mizukage Reason
Why Kabuto revived the Second Mizukage instead of Third? Yagura is the Fourth, Mei is the Fifth. But Kabuto said he revived the predecessors of the current Kage. I'm confused :S. Could he have been revived by other reasons? Leodix  (Talk 05:00, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Second Mizukage is still a predecessor of the Fifth Mizukage. It's also down to whose DNA Kabuto acquire it's possible that he couldn't get any for the Third for whatever reason. --Cerez☺ (talk) 05:11, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why is the Second Mizukage the predecessor of the Fifth? The Third, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned yet. It may have a logical explanation why the Third isn't summoned, which may/may not be explained as the manga progresses since any guess would border to speculation. Darkerratum (talk) 05:17, March 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Fourth was Yagura and Kabuto summoning him. Why Kabuto didn't use Yagura instead of Second? I do not see much logic. Leodix   (Talk 05:23, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

The best explanation I've come up with without speculation: Kabuto cannot find very old dead guy's (girl's?) DNA.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 05:26, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

^ And I'm talking the 3d by the way.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 05:28, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

@Leodix, Yagura is a special case, since he has a category for both jinchuuriki and kages. Since Yagura is in both, he was categorized as a jinchuuriki and his predecessor was revived for the Mizukage slot. It should have been the Third Mizukage, not the Second, unless there's a reason behind such. Many possibilities occur when this is put into question. @Fmakck Second Mizukage and the Second Tsuchikage are far older than the Third in my POV, since the Second passed the torch to the Third if we talk about succession, and yet the Second has been revived. We should wait for further developments to answer this I guess.Darkerratum (talk) 05:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the 3rd Mizukage is Tobi. From the encounter he had with Kisame a while back, Tobi revealed himself to Kisame, and the fellow Akatsuki comrade said something along the lines of, "So it was you all along, Mizukage-sama." So the order of Mizukages goes as follows: "No-Brows" is Nidaime, "Tobi" is Sandaime, Yagura is Yondaime, and Mei is Godaime. If Tobi isn't Sandaime, then that just leaves him as Shodaime - making him the ruler of another country at around the same time that Hashirama and Madara were around. It wouldn't make any sense.--Mizzcocoa214 (talk) 20:12, October 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Tobi was controlling Yagura, thus why Kisame called Tobi Mizukage. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 20:15, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

Status of the Edo Tenseis
We should list the current status of the Edo Tenseis. Check the Akatsuki page for how it's done. For Shin and Sasori, they are Freed. For Haku, Zabuza, Ginkaku, and Kinkaku, they are Sealed. For Deidara, he is Captured. For the "6th coffin", it is Inactive. For all others, they are all Active.

(talk) 17:12, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Have you read the page? This has been suggested already, and it's not worth it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:14, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

I agree on the above, we should have the summoned status , it's generally a good idea for imformation--Futon-Kunai


 * I don't agree on the above - it seems pointless.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 12:04, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I'm with Fma-kun and Omni-senpai.-- Ninja Sheik  20:55, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Its still a genuine idea, who actually created this wiki in the first place , maybe they could decide , or a vote maybe , its just a good idea to have--Futon-Kunai

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not really useful, not really needed, can change often, not worth the required editing to update their status every time it changes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how their status changes frequently. Readers can instantly know who is active, sealed, or freed if we simply add a section. Asuma is sealed in the current chapter. From the progression of this manga, do you really expect him to get unsealed ever again? (talk) 15:42, April 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Because it would be really difficult to unwrap him...
 * I, personally, am leaning towards implementing this. It will of course become pointless once everyone is "inactive", but it seems as though that won't be for a while. ~SnapperTo 21:46, April 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Might I point out that this article is about the technique and not about what happens to the victims of the technique? The status of the Edo Tensei summons is irrelevant to the technique itself and thus to the article. In fact, I already found the reasons for their summoning to be rather irrelevant. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:23, April 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * what happens to them after they are summoned actually do matter because they are summoned as a result of this technique. If you disagree, then please tell me why you have to list out the names of each ET anyways, it's not like each of them matter to the technique itself as you said since there is no difference in the technique for summon each of them. (talk) 18:04, April 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Edo Tensei zombies are a direct result of this technique. The reason they were summoned is secondary. What happened to them afterwards is completely irrelevant. Imagine us listing for each and every animal summon exactly why they were summoned and what happened to them afterwards. It's ridiculous and cumbersome. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:52, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

You also forgot about the Salamander King being sealed

There's no evidence it was sealed after Mifune escaped through its head. There's no evidence that it's even a resurrected minion like the others. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

world Resurrection
When a person uses this technique the people they bring back to life,are they conscious like do they know what they're doing.Also are they alive again forever?


 * Hmmm.. if only there was an article of some sort that has information on this technique.. Please read the actual article before asking questions that can be found in it. Also, sign your post with ~ .  ~ Fmakck©  (Images 17:18, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

2 out of 5
kabuto tells orochimaru that he did well against the 3rd hokage, saying he even summoned 2 out of 5 shadows or something. i guess 2 is the 1st and the 2nd hokages. And Minato is the 3rd. i know minato could not be summoned, because of the death god. so i guess who was the other to kages. ( kage means shadow ).


 * I would assume he means two of the five Hokage. However, I'm not sure what chapter/page you're referring to. ~SnapperTo 00:42, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find it and I just went through ¾ of the manga. If you can, please provide a reference. Though I think it would've been mentioned more by now if it were factual.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 01:56, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

he must mean the return of Itachi 2. When Itachi faces Kakashi, just a few pages before that battle starts.

Unlimited Chakra
Do those revived have an unlimited amount of chakra? Also, would techniques harming the body such as multi shadow clone technique or susanoo bring damage to the revived?
 * We don't know. Also, we don't know and we don't know.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 12:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

No. I doubt it. When Muu summoned Madara he said he didn't have much chakra left. 21:03, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Muu was unable to use his Jinton after he split. Because of his low chakra levels, that is. So, NO unlimited chakra (= fact) and also no damage (= not a fact). The reason I think no damage, however, is that they will recuperate anyway, so the damage gets nullified anyway. Derigar (talk) 14:24, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * He said his power was halved. Power is not only in relation to chakra and the two aren't synonymous.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

From what I have seen there are 4 main schools of thought on ET zombies chakra: They have an unlimited chakra pool; They have chakra that regenerates in the same way their bodies do; They have no outside influences and use/regenerate chakra like anyone else; They receive chakra from the ET caster and/or the body of the sacrifice.

In my opinion the only one that has been disproven is the first one, and that is because of Muu. I wouldn't say that he disproves the second scenario, because sealing half of someone away should basically decrease the size of their available chakra pool by half, so even with quick regenerating chakra it would never reach large enough to be able to cast the jutsu. Not saying it is necessarily that way, but it is possible. Almightywoody (talk) 16:23, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Pointlessness of the Impure World
It would seem that another weakness of this technique has been exposed, or should at least be noted. The Third Raikage when addressing his fellow revived Kage, states that he has complete faith that the shinobi of the villages have surpassed them. Kakashi also says something similar to Kakuzu right before he dies. It should be mentioned that although the technique does have a near unlimited power in calling back the dead, the current generation of the naruto universe seems to have more power than the last, making the technique it own downfall

1. Sign your posts. 2. The fact that Mu said the new generation have surpassed them have nothing to with the technique. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:33, July 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess that is actually a point of the story - Naruto is all about the new generation surpassing the old one. I don't think it should be listed as a weakness of the technique itself, because technically it can be used to revive the younger ninjas, like Deidara who was a student of Ōnoki. --kiadony 10:38, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

What he is implying is that back when the technique was first used, there was no way to stop it. Now if you look around since the fight between the Third and Orochi, there has been many, many ways developed and thought of to stop the use in it's tracks. But yes, also it is about the next gen passing the last, but has absolutely nothing to do a "weakness" in this technique. As Kabuto stated, there is no drawbacks. But in saying that, there could and they're yet to be seen. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:48, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

There is one thing which bothers me. When Naruto hit Toroi with his Rasengan, Kabuto noticed it, more than any previous attack used on other zombies. Somehow, it seems that Rasengan has some sort of effect on Impure World Ressurection. Or that Kabuto noticed something was meant to be something different, the time will tells. but if it doesnt, there is maybe one weakness of this technique, in Rasengan, but that is a mere speculation. VolteMetalic (talk) 23:17, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Kabuto was just surprised he was taken out so fast. Either that, or his awareness of the resurrected shinobi surroundings enabled him to detect Naruto's Nine-Tails chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Prehaps Kabuto was surprised to see Narutos new form and felt that with his new power, he'd be a threat to taking out the resurrected. As he noticed it more then others, because it was Naruto who attacked. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 06:01, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Haku's eyes
The articel says that "The summoned all have black sclera and white irides", but shouldnt it be noted somewhere that Haku's eyes actually has grey clera and black irides up until the point where Kabutu takes complete control(See chapter 521 and 522). Don't know if he is the only one, but he is the only one where i have actually noticed it. --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:00, July 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since nobody had anything to say, i went ahead and added it. Feel free to invert my changes if they somehow is inapropiate or wrong, but if you do, please tell me why. --Cosmikaze (talk) 22:31, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen they all keep their eye colours until Kabuto takes full control of them, not just Haku.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:49, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * While you might be right, try and take a look at http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/12 and http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525/2 just two examples, and maybe you are able to find some proof for your theory, but in these pictures all the summoned has black(grey)sclera and white irides, witht he sole exception af haku (okay in the second page i posted hakus eyes does acutally look white, but maybe they are just closed for some reason or something, i dont know, but in all other apperences by him until the point where his personality is erased his eyes are clearly not white (see http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/13 as an example). im not saying he is the only one, just that he is the only one i have noticed (maybe besides dojutsu users) who doesnt have black and white eyes --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:08, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Eye colors vary, check the voloume 55 cover.--Deva 27 23:11, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, thanks for the color image.--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * this as well normally they're depicted with the lines in their sclera and when Kabuto takes over, it goes pitch black.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ye i noticed the lines/grey> pitch black thing, but since that was the same for everyone that was besides the point i was trying to make :) but seeing those color pages have me convinced, it just seemed strange to me that haku was different, but seeing the color pages helped a lot :)--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:21, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

No risk to the user.
Does this technique take any chakra? 122.254.121.34 (talk) 10:37, July 14, 2011 (UTC)(random)
 * Yes.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:11, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

If it does it still poses a risk to the user if the user has insufficient chakra
 * He means no repercussions after using his chakra for the resurrection part, controlling the and whatever comes after that probably takes very little chakra and has no ill effects on the user after extended use.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Tobirama Senju
Kabuto is listed as a manga user of this technique. The case of Tobirama is almost the same because it has been mentioned only in the manga that he created (and certainly used) the Edo Tensei. Consequently, next to Tobirama Senju somebody has to add "manga only". Unless im wrong because i havent watched the last anime chapters. BTW, im latinoamerican so maybe i have some writting mistakes XD.201.230.54.171 (talk) 15:11, July 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works, he's never been and will probably never be seen using the technique. In this instance he is simply listed as a user of the technique with no manga/ anime implications.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 15:22, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

afterlife ?
Haku and Zabuza died ... after got revived, they commented that this look nothing like afterlife. This mean that it seemed like a seconds from their death to their revival. But ... arent the souls meant to be in other world after death ? How is it they dont remember them being dead in heaven/hell or wherever ? Maybe because other world/afterlife dont exist ? So where are the souls then ? ...--Elveonora (talk) 23:14, October 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe the Pure Land isn't somewhere you exists consciously. Maybe they don't have the memories from the other world in this world. —ShounenSuki (talk 23:38, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

I see ... Kishi is such a good writer O_O That trick with Madara got me.--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Preparatory Ritual
Doesn't this create a plot hole? As is mentioned in the trivia, Orochimaru's attempting to bind Minato to his sacrifice body would have failed in the prep. ritual, Minato wouldn't have "caked over" the sacrifice (not sure of a better term to describe the demonstration with Fu and Torune), nothing should have happened at all, so why bother trying to summon it later if there was nothing to summon? On top of this, why would a coffin have come out at all based on that? Another thing worth mentioning is that it had the '4' on it like the 4th was actually in there (though the 4 was only shown in the anime so presumably can't be taken as 100% canon). 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:01, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * The coffin never emerges in the manga, though Orochimaru notes that the summon failed. Who says the soul can't be bound to the sacrifice when the coffin is summoned?--Deva 27 00:10, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kabuto's explanation of why the 4th couldn't be summoned because his soul was unreachable was very clear. His demonstration following the explanation also shows exactly what you have to do beforehand. Based on what he says, the 4th wouldn't have taken over the sacrifice because his soul couldn't be anchored to the impure world in any way/shape/form, ergo it wouldn't/couldn't be bound to the sacrifice at any point. 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's only a plot-hole if the soul can't indeed be bound at the same time the coffin is brought up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:23, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, Deva was right about the coffin not appearing at all in the manga, so the coffin isn't even really the issue, the question lies in why Orochimaru attempted to summon it at all during his fight with the third (and made note of its failure, meaning he thought it would work) when in the preparatory ritual Minato's soul would not have overtaken the sacrifice or even responded to the summon (during the prep. ritual), since, as Kabuto said, was entirely unreachable to the technique. Either way this still creates a plot hole. 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:33, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * The only possible explanation, the only possible loop-hole for this not to be a plot-hole, is that it's possible to tie the soul to the sacrifice and make the summon all at once. If the first fails, so does the second. It's the only explanation which doesn't create a plot-hole. Maybe Kabuto showed things a bit more clearly so Tobi (and the readers) could understand how the technique works. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Kabuto said, "If the soul does not reside in the pure world, they cannot be resurrected". I would say that means there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, so I think, based on everything we know, it is indeed a plot hole. I've seen many arguments/discussions about this very topic across the internet, and until Kishimoto retcons/explains it in the manga, or naruto ends, we can't really say either way. Again though, based on the facts we've been given, it is indeed a plot-hole for the time being. Jetdeagon (talk) 00:50, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * And none of that invalidates the notion that it might be possible to sequentially bind the soul and summon it, which would resolve the situation without creating a plot hole. It's just a matter of finding loop-holes and exploiting them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, but in the manga itself it has been stated that souls not in the pure world cannot be resurrected. It came out of the users' mouth, and immediately afterward we saw exactly how the ritual of preparation plays out. As I said, until any loophole is brought up or exploited in the manga, it can't be taken as fact to explain away a plot hole. Jetdeagon (talk) 01:02, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Orochimaru has used a different Preparatory Ritual. Seal is formed around the sacrifice, and the wished to summon one's blood/dna is applied to the seal thus changing the body of the sacrifice into the summoned one's. Whos to say they are alive right away ? Maybe Kabuto just bond the soul with a body right away and Orochimaru not. So Orochimaru has most likely prepared Minato's body in the coffin but not yet blew a life into him. So when Orochimaru was about to summon Minato, the coffin failed because the soul was not available.--Elveonora (talk) 17:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * A simple explanation without a plot hole could be that he tried to revive Minato and failed due to him being sealed and resorted to using the Fourth Kazekage. His soul was never sealed so there's no reason Kabuto couldn't have used him as he did. This is all speculation but it may help some of you sleep at night :). Arrancar79 (talk) 21:39, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't make since at all since the coffin failed period and since Kabuto was able to summon the 4th Kaze clearly his soul was available for the binding. Maybe guess as stated above that Oro tried the prep and summon at the same time.Umishiru (talk) 05:42, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Blackmail Coffin
So was the Blackmail coffin used by Kabuto to force Tobi to take the deal with the alliance, Madara after all? Was it a different shinobi? I never got the chance to read the manga chapters so please dont make me feel stupid. So yea, if it was Madara in the coffin than who is the supposed madara leading akatsuki?
 * Yes, it was Madara, we have no idea who Tobi is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Who is...
...this? Seelentau 愛議 22:04, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Dunno. He/She's there by accident. They were removed in the tankōbon version.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:07, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * ah, I see. Worth mentioned it, maybe? Anyway, thanks :) Seelentau 愛議 22:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's supposed to be in the Manga/Anime differences article and somewhere else I think. Omnibender brought it up already and I think we followed through with it and all.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 22:18, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * mhkay, I don't want to discuss about such small fry, so I'll leave it as it is^^ Seelentau 愛議 22:19, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Why Not Display Each Shinobi's Status?
Moments ago, I was going to suggest adding a "Status" column to the list of revived ninja (e.g. Purified, Sealed, Incapacitated, Active); however as I was going to copy the source code to show off a couple of examples, I saw the hidden message "Do NOT add a status column". Why can't we show their statuses? SuperSaiyanSonic (talk) 21:10, October 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * --Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 21:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

edo
is the "edo" in this technique related in any way to the old name for tokyo, also "edo", or is it different? --Caseather (talk) 21:08, November 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Read /Archive 1. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:31, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Imperfections
The Fox King has pulled up that in part I the resurrected lose their imperfections after being affected by the talisman but in part II, they still have them. Should we add somewhere that in part II they still have the imperfections, even after being completely controlled by Kabuto(like how Mu was)? Joshbl56 02:54, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Control
I have a question, does Kabuto control the Edo Tensei's himself or does he simply 'program' them to move as 'instructed'? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:04, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * He can control them himself, as seen with the Raikage, Mu, and Nagato.--Deva 27 16:06, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * When their eyes go completely black he's controlling them himself otherwise they're 'instructed'.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:07, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Another question, are their senses connected to his own? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:11, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Senses? Everything we know is in the article friend. Though as far as senses go I'm assuming he can hear and see what they do, from his reactions/conversations and so on.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 16:16, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Who's controlling the Jinchuriki, Kabuto or Madara? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:21, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

They are most likely still under Kabuto's Edo Tensei, but Tobi took control of them using the chakra rods. --Elveonora (talk) 16:25, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Okay I'm done, thanks for answering my answers all of you 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:26, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Should we add that Chakra receivers can shift control then? Also I can't help but notice the control seems to end when a jinchuriki fully transformed. --1337 B33FC4K3 (talk) 05:02, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the control ends once the Jinchuriki have transformed. It may just be harder to control as there is more power to control. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:46, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat related, but since Tobi's six paths of pain were defeated without ET being cancelled, and without the zombies being sealed, or reaching enlightenment (the only confirmed methods to deal with ET zombies), doesn't it seem likely that they weren't ET zombies at this point even though Kabuto referenced them earlier?Almightywoody (talk) 05:19, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Did you read some chapters in the future or what? Jins were never shown after their bijuus were extracted from them, except Roshi. He was unconscious but not destroyed or whatever you mean.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:43, April 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * That was kind of the point. How many unconscious ET zombies have you seen? I don't think you can knock them out, they never stop coming (unless you seal half their soul away like Muu). It was probably just his corpse (after all Akatsuki are the ones who killed the Jinchurikis, with the possible exception of Yagura, but Tobi was in control of him shortly before he should have died), or it should have disintegrated. Since it didn't it seems like it was the same technique as Nagato's 6 paths of Pain that revived them, instead of ET.Almightywoody (talk) 05:50, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * So you're suggesting there is another set of Edo-jins running around? Or didn't you see they were regenerating like all edos? Or that they have a souls like all edos? And who said edos can't be knocked out? Please provide manga page saying that or stop this pointless discussion. The BIJUU were extracted from them. That would kill normal human. Of course it has a strong effect even on edo-bodies.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:56, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Your question is interesting. Maybe there's a hidden trick in the manga, but give the page references. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 06:02, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Samehada O.o?
"Upon awakening they retain their personality, memories, and all abilities they had in life, including kekkei genkai, kekkei tōta and summoning contracts, but does not seem to be able to recreate unique weapons such as Samehada, though normal weapons like kunai and shuriken do seem to reform."

Does anyone know what that statement's supposed to mean, because I'm drawing a blank.--Cerez365™ 20:35, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's meant to mean that a resurrected shinobi gains back all their abilities and such they had before dying, but any unique blades like the Seven Ninja Swords do not get resurrected. That's my interpretation of it. --speysider (talk) 20:43, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * That was my interpretation of the statement as well but, while I believe the section about unique weapons should be retained yet exchanged with "such as the blades of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist", I don't think the latter part is necessary as I believe there is nothing to indicate that tools such as kunai are obtained through the technique rather than normal means. Blackstar1 (talk) 20:53, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

That change should suffice but I still don't understand part. Kunai and shuriken reform O.o That's saying that the edo tensei bounds the souls of kunai and shuriken past to metal souls when Kabuto could have easily equipped them with these things before sending them out? I can only think of Toroi who had a scroll and Kinkaku who spat out the treasures (even then that's just summoning) As such I propose that the latter bit be removed and the first bit be edited to what BlackStar1 suggested but more specific so no "special tools" just state the incident with the swordsmen and not being able to get their swords.--Cerez365™ 21:00, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think that was added because there might have been an example of an edo tensei using tools after they were reformed. For example, clothes reform. I don't think that means they have souls, but just that edo tensei covers that, maybe the image of when they died. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:57, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Cancel Summoning: Impure World Resurrection?
If the technique can be canceled wouldn't Kabuto just cancel Itachi? I don't understand why people in this manga thinks it can be canceled?

He has most likely lied to Sasuke again ... if he told him that to stop the technique he has to die again, I don't think he would allow that. --Elveonora (talk) 01:05, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

It is my theory that to release the technique, one releases the entire technique. So if Kabuto did away with Itachi he would undo all the other Edos, including Madara. In that respect it is standard for most techniques for the user to be able to disengage it, why wouldn't they be able to? And with a technique that doesn't even cancel after its user's demise, deactivation would seemingly be the only method of cancelling the technique. Especially if Tobirama was the first user and there aren't any of the Edos he created walking around Konoha now, there has to be a way to cancel it. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 22:25, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

It would be too much of a delay for Kabuto to cancel the Edo zombies because then he probably would have to look for more sacrifices before he can use Edo Tensei again. 112.202.79.25 (talk) 14:52, April 12, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous

Sealed status
simply stating whether or not they are sealed is indeed redudant, they will all eventually be sealed/released. however i do think it should be mentioned HOW and WHO sealed them, example being 1st hokage sealed/released by 3rd Hokage with: Reaper death seal, etc, or Shin sealed/released by Sai with: Released.

something along those lines.

Shadowfox337 (talk) 02:29, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sacrifices
From where does Kabuto get so many sacrifices to use this technique ?--Jaison Clinton Castelino 10:21, March 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Possible from Takigakure, where he tested his abilities before heading for Tobi, leaving a trail of corpses behind. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 10:25, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

it's not like the sacrifice needs any special properties, other than being alive. could've used anyone, and i'm sure there were plenty of orochimaru's experiments/underlings available for sacrifice too. Shadowfox337 (talk) 20:15, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Anime Addition
It seems we may see some new characters however atm its unlear whether pakura is revived as she was not included in the shinobi noted for her skill like Zabuza, Haku and Gari. But regards to the new faces whats going to happen to them will they be kept in waiting for further showcasing ? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 14:41, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Pakura was in the manga, so she's not a new addition. although it would be interesting if a few Filler faces showed up in the revival.

Shadowfox337 (talk) 21:28, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

mistake
did they make a mistake in naruto 256? Kabuto said the Gokage, or five kage, and he only showed 3, and none of the hokage can be revived because of the dead demon consuming seal.--76.92.243.71 (talk) 23:38, March 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was referring to the 5 current Kage. Skitts (talk) 23:48, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

If the resurrected can feel no pain, then why is it said that Itachi closed his eyes and covered his eyes in pain when Kabuto used his dragon technique?Undominanthybrid (talk) 19:00, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

It's more like they don't feel pain that is the result of body harm or mutilation. We've seen the Seven Swordsmen reform from nothing, and it didn't seem like being disintegrated caused them any discomfort. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:59, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Edo Tensei control to stop pre-existing jutsu?
"Have the summoner end the technique. As they are unlikely to do this voluntarily, using a genjutsu to trick them into cancelling the technique is ideal. The sequence of hand seals for cancelling the technique is Dog → Horse → Tiger and saying "release" (解, kai). If the summoner dies before the technique is deactivated, then this method is impossible. " - from article section "Countering"

If the summoner does die, shouldn't that mean that he will be susceptible to Edo Tensei from another person too (unless he/she was sealed)? If the summoner dies, can't someone use Edo Tensei to summon him/her, then use that special talisman to control his will and let him/her end the technique?

Maybe the bold sentence should be changed to " If the summoner is sealed before the technique is deactivated, then this method is impossible. " 112.202.93.154 (talk) 16:28, March 30, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous


 * There has never been more than 1 living person that knows Edo Tensei, or at least that has been said to. And how would we know? That sentence however is correct. If the summoner dies, Edo Tensei cannot be cancelled. Skitts (talk) 16:23, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Good point, but what if someone does learn Edo Tensei soon? Like, someone might end up killing Kabuto (without releasing his jutsu) and then someone might learn Edo Tensei technique, then force Kabuto to end his Edo Tensei. After all, the summoned retains his/her abilities, learned jutsu, chakra, etc., so it might be possible that Edo Tensei control can also be retained. 112.202.93.154 (talk) 16:34, March 30, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous
 * People cannot commandeer others' techniques as far as I know. Learning Edo Tensei doesn't mean you could end Kabuto's. You'd have to find ways to seal the resurrected permanently.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 18:50, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

What if an Edo Tensei user kills Kabuto, resurrects him, and then overrides his will with the special seal to force Kabuto to end his technique? It's not really commandeering jutsu, but controlling Kabuto actually.112.202.79.25 (talk) 19:56, April 8, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous
 * I assume you mean a resurrected shinobi kills Kabuto and brings him back with Edo Tensei as well? It would make Kabuto end his technique, but now Kabuto would be stuck as an Edo, because whoever brought him would be gone. He'd just be there with his will overridden. It all comes down to whether if he no command from the original caster, he'd be able to exercise his own will. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:19, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Omnibender, I meant what if a mortal Edo Tensei user kills Kabuto, summons him as an Edo zombie, and then makes him cancel the technique? It would be another way to end a specific person's Edo Tensei. I think this might be useful enough to put in the list of methods to end Edo Tensei, or even in the trivia, at least....
 * That can't be added. It's speculation.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 19:46, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

It does seem like if the ET caster was resurrected in some fashion (I don't see it mattering what the fashion is - ET, Rinne Tensei, Granny Chio's jutsu) they should still be able to dispel it, but the likelihood of one of those jutsus being available seems a little too slim to make specifically 'sealing' to be what makes it impossible. If I was to propose an edit to the section I would suggest a gravitation towards a more general term. Something along the lines of 'Of course if the summoner is unreachable, then this method is not workable.'. Almightywoody (talk) 16:48, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Unknown shinobi
in episode 256 many resurrected shinobies is unknow howare--
 * Just like you, we haven't the foggiest. They're anime-only edo tensei's most likely to thicken the plot.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 11:37, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Image
the previous image was better than this. This doesnot show the exact jutsu Salil dabholkar (talk) 06:48, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * It shows the restoration of the resurrected ninja, and it correctly portrays the darkened sclera, which wasn't the case with the previous image. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Sensing location
Before I make a change lemme see if I got this right. When Itachi said he could feel where the source of the technique was coming from (577, p. 16) but then goes on to say that it was actually Nagato doing the sensory stuff (580 p. 7) Does that mean that Itachi wasn't able to tell where it was coming from and that Nagato had actually told him? I'm a bit confused on this point.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 20:37, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Before he said it was Nagato, I understood it as him seeing the chakra that was controlling him with the Sharingan, but it seems that Nagato used sensing skills to determine the point of origin of said chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:05, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah I had forgotten about the Sharingan in all of this. Then it'd be more appropriate to note that resurrected shinobi with sensory abilities can determine the source of the chakra instead of saying they all can?--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:12, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Are we sure Nagato is a sensor ? Rinnegan can see chakra after all. --Elveonora (talk) 21:58, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * If seeing chakra was all it took to track where Kabuto was, Itachi wouldn't have credited Nagato, as the Sharingan alone can already see chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:11, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

But Itachi could sense Kabuto as well, right ? --Elveonora (talk) 22:26, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as we know, Itachi isn't and has never been a sensor. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * What was said in ch.577 was incorrectly translated. In Japanese, Itachi never specifically said it was him who could sense Kabuto's chakra.--Deva 27 22:35, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Also, the Rinnegan can see barriers, I don't think it's ever seen chakra. There's a few things that Nagato has done that would classify him as a sensor other than the Itachi thing.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 23:01, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * He sort of saw Tsunade and a few ANBU gathering chakra to their feet to counteract Shinra Tensei by sticking themselves to the ground. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:11, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well then... I shall be taking my leave =\ --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 23:32, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Name change suggestion
''@Seelentau: I chose 'reincarnation' over 'resurrection', because nothing is being resurrected here. There is nothing that was once dead and is now brought back to life. However, you could interpret what happens as Kabuto 'reincarnating' a bit of himself into the lifeless object. In fact, to keep things consistent, I would suggest changing the translation of Edo Tensei to be in line with this technique.'' - ShounenSuki.
 * Any opinions on this? Seelentau 愛議 16:31, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * IMO, Resurrection sounds better than Reincarnation for this technique. With this technique, your only bringing them back from the dead to fight for you. Reincarnation implies that the user is returning their soul to the Pure World (similar to One's Own Life Reincarnation. I vote for keeping it the way it is. --Speysider (Talk Page) 16:34, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

I think 'resurrection' works better here.--Deva 27 18:12, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Either way goes for me. However, I would like to point that that ShounenSuki has translated this as 'reincarnation' in the title of chapter The Secret of the Impure World Reincarnation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:19, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Now the name listed doesn't match what the technique actually does. We're not reincarnating anyone (aka bringing them back from the dead at the cost of the caster's life): we're temporarily resurrecting them and when they are defeated, they return to the dead. I don't like the name of this article because it now confuses me to what the technique does. --Speysider (Talk Page) 17:44, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Though it's been changed already ( '-') If it's for the sake of uniformity, I have no issue with the change.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:47, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh! I do think we should have a bot help out with this though. It seems like a mountain of work.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 17:50, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes a bot should. Unfortunately for all the power I have here, the ability to use a bot continues to elude me...--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:52, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Good luck convincing anyone that we're reincarnating people here. If it was a reincarnation, then the caster would die. If we take Orochimaru's Living Corpse Reincarnation technique, then that is a reincarnation because if he does not perform it then Orochimaru dies. In this Summoning the caster does not die in any form, because he is not transferring every ounce of chakra and life force to the resurrected person. This is not a reincarnation technique and it should not be named or listed as one. I believe this should be put back to Resurrection, regardless of trying to keep with uniformity. --Speysider (Talk Page) 18:55, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Actually what is done with this technique is more reincarnation than anything else. I was just thinking about it and if these people were to be resurrected, then they would have had to have their own bodies that they did in life. However, that's not the case, they have a body of a sacrifice (usually used in reincarnations) moulded out of dirt and ash to fit their appearance. Having their soul bound to something else. Now I'm not sure about Budhism but in Hinduism, that's exactly what reincarnation is- only with animals. Going from that I believe we shouldn't even call them "revived" any more.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 19:02, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * The problem with reincarnation is that the caster must die. Even if your providing a dead sacrifice, said sacrifice will have no chakra. The caster would have to give all their chakra to reincarnate someone, like with Chiyo's One's Own Life Reincarnation and Orochimaru's Living Corpse Reincarnation. In the case of Chiyo, she gives out all her life force and chakra, then dies once the person has been reincarnated. In Orochimaru's case, he must be in a body to survive by transferring his entire soul and chakra into someone else. If he has no body or the process is negated by an Uchiha then he dies. If this Summoning was reincarnating people, Tobirama would not have developed it if it required giving out all the person's chakra and life force and Orochimaru / Kabuto would not have been able to use it. There is also the fact that a reincarnated person is restored instantly to their original form. A person revived with this jutsu shows decay and requires a talisman to be implanted into their heads to return them to their original forms. Therefore I believe this page should just be left as Summoning: Impure World Resurrection because the people revived with this technique are only being resurrected to serve as a puppet for the caster: they are not being brought back into the Pure World in any form. --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:09, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Reincarnation - 1. Rebirth of the soul in another body. 2. A reappearance or revitalization in another form; a new embodiment

Resurrection - 1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life. 2. The state of one who has returned to life.

Theses are word for word definitions of the two terms, not in regards to any technique, just the literal word. Now regardless of what you define as a resurrection technique or a reincarnation technique, by definition either one of these could work and it really comes down to how you define "life". I personally prefer resurrection and it fits if your definition of life is returning from the pure world, but reincarnation covers it with rebirth of the soul in another body, which is errily close to this technique, but its second definition is actually way off as its not in another form, its the same form plastered over a sacrifice. At the same time I don't believe the term "Life" is quite applicable to those brought back with this technique, so resurrection all together sounds off. That is just my view. Over all, here are the definitions, do with them as you will, but Speysider, stop trying to classify techniques by their name, reincarnation as a principle does not include the sacrifice of one life for another, its just the term we used here cause we're trying to translate from an entirely different language. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:14, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's called a discussion, I'm simply giving my views to why it should be called Resurrection, so being rude like that is honestly a waste of your time. --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:18, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I can judge for myself how to use my time. I think giving those definitions was worth it as your view is only brought into it in the last sentence or two. But as usual I must remind myself that it isn't a forum, so I apologise if I appeared rude, but I may as well point out that you blatantly and seemingly sarcastically said good luck trying to get this accepted because you believed your view to be correct. If you intend to be taken seriously I suggest you work on your own presentation as well. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:36, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's called sarcasm, I wasn't being serious and I was giving my view in a big explanation as to why I think it should be named the previous way. Nowhere did I say my view was correct. Am I not allowed to have a opinion without being flamed for no reason now ?? --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:39, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

... Yeah, I'm gonna leave this in the hands of someone with more authority and patience than I. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:48, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I think since even the Japanese name says 'reincarnation', we should stay with it. Even the interwiki-link for 'reincarnation' in the English wikipedia links to 'tensei' in the Japanese one, while 'resurrection' links to 'fukkatsu'. I don't know much about the religious background, but Kishimoto-sensei would've probably used 'fukkatsu' if he wanted to say 'resurrection'. Seelentau 愛議 20:04, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'd say no. For me, this isn't so much a translation thing as it is being true to what the technique does. Really, we need to have a standard for this. For example, can't sennin be translated as "hermit" or "sage", but the wiki chooses "sage" because that fits the description of how the term is used in the series in relation to real life sages were supposed to be like? At least to me, the use of 'reincarnation' here over 'resurrection' seems to give off a sense that this is similar to what Orochimaru does (and what reincarnation itself is supposed to be), the same being being brought back as something else. They are different, dure, but they are still, well, them. Is reincarnation ever even used to mean what this technique does? Skitts (talk) 20:35, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I understand this, 'reincarnation' is when a dead soul is brought back in another body, whereas 'resurrection' is when a dead soul is brought back in its own body. At least that would be my definiton, so correct me if I'm wrong. Seelentau 愛議 20:54, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thats the fun thing about this job. Sometimes things are not as black and white. This is one of them. Reincarnation, as far as my limited understanding goes, means that when one dies and are reincarnated, the persons soul comes back to the realm of the living, but as another being. The soul is the same, but the person is different. So to speak.
 * If I read above correctly, for this jutsu Reincarnation works just as well as Resurrection. Reincarnation works as the people are sacrificed and "reincarnated" into the soul of the poor sap that got brought back. Resurrection works because yeah, people be coming back from the dead. --TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 20:57, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, technically both works, but 'reincarnation' would be more correct in terms of translation, because for 'resurrection', another term is used mostly (I think). And as I said, as far as I know the Edo Tensei works as a reincarnation. The problem is that both terms don't really differ... While we're at it, used to revive the dead would have to be changed, too. Seelentau 愛議 22:03, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, reincarnation works kind of. It's a bit of twisting of the meaning, since I don't think it implies being the same person like resurrection does. I don't really mind. But with us having renamed this article, shouldn't, say, Chiyo's One's Own Life Reincarnation be changed to resurrection since in that technique it's a true resurrection, exactly as the target was? Skitts (talk) 22:16, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

"Revive the dead" is a fine phrase to use. It's technically not wrong, and it sounds better than "reincarnating the dead with new bodies".--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 22:19, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that's where we realise that all things in the manga aren't being taken so literally. Or at least, it's use the reader's that put it under a microscope... poor Kishimoto lol. I think Chiyo's technique name should/can remain the same though because: And still we have "Chibaku Tensei", "Shinra Tensei" and "Rinne Tensei", which somehow translate into "Heavenly Body Bursting from the Earth", "Heavenly Subjugation of the Omnipresent God" and "Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique". No reincarnation here. Just saying.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:39, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) apparently tensei means reincarnation and fukkatsu means resurrection
 * 2) what Chiyo is doing is actually reincarnating her own life, into someone else. That way, I see it following the same principle of reincarnation vs resurrection.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 01:30, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because the Kanji aren't the same... Seelentau 愛議 05:45, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * My bad, you're right Faust-RSI (talk) 05:50, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

IMO the 'resurrection' sounds better, though there's nothing wrong sticking with 'reincarnation'. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 05:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)