Talk:Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken

Scale Powder Pt.02
Now that the trailer for Storm 4 showed us the technique in colour, we can see that Chomei's Rasenshuriken has yellow-tinted sparkling dust. The scale powder in the Storm games has been portrayed as orange/yellow, so it fits. Is this enough to say that the Rasenshuriken is made out of Scale Powder?--Omojuze (talk) 19:50, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Two words: Video. Game. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:12, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Three words: Any.better.ideas? And no, leaving it blank doesn't work anymore, given as we have a coloured source. So it stays for now, whether you like it or not.--Omojuze (talk) 20:15, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Quote Seelentau. And I add two words: Trivia. Point.--JOA2020:16, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * More words: If you have to actually ask if it's correct or not, then don't go ahead and make the changes assuming you're right. That's contraproductive. Also, neither are the video games a canon source, nor are you the one to decide what stays and what doesn't. Please undo your changes as long as this discussion is ongoing. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:17, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * LOOK. If a coloured source isn't enough for you then you're just being stubborn... And why put it in the trivia? Given what we know from manga, it also fits perfectly. Unless you provide something against this that actually makes sense, I'm afraid your logic is invalid.--Omojuze (talk) 20:19, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * And, either way, it will stay. Either as canon or game only.--Omojuze (talk) 20:21, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Game only, of course. But it has nothing to do with this article. So make the according changes please. You know very well how things work, we're not adding disputable information without talking them out first. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:23, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, the trailer provides a coloured source of the entire technique. It's not disputable information when we have a clear indication. You're just being stubborn because we learn of this from a video game first and not the anime... Also, all other eight Rasenshuriken fit the manga description... talk about flawed logic.--Omojuze (talk) 20:25, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * And it's still from a video game, which is not an acceptable source and never has been. You know that very well. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:30, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Quote: Never has been. Really? Because we have named quite a few of unnamed techniques with names provided by a game source, and nobody ever sees a problem in that..--Omojuze (talk) 20:31, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * If you have a problem with that, you're free to address it in the forums. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:41, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't, but clearly you do because you're cherry picking as can be seen here...--Omojuze (talk) 20:43, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with the naming either. :) • Seelentau 愛 議 20:45, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * So.. what's the problem here? It's not like the game pulled out scale powder outta nowhere.. We have a coloured pic of a manga pic that wasn't clear enough. The coloured pic is clear enough to indicate the Rasenshuriken.. I really don't understand your flawed logic. Have you ever even played Storm games before because they're pretty spot-on when it comes to art and storyline.--Omojuze (talk) 20:48, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that a video game isn't a canon source. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:55, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's canon enough for stuff we don't know or aren't clear with. This is one of those stuff...--Omojuze (talk) 20:56, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just like we use the game to back-up the techniques with no given names, it's the exact same principle - take the stuff we aren't clear on and adapt it based on the Storm video game adaptation (because the game is very rarely wrong).--Omojuze (talk) 20:57, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * I really wish the wiki would stop making judgement calls on canonicity, it is not our job to determine this. --Sajuuk talk 21:02, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * For video game to "very rarely" be wrong, they'd need to be "right" sometimes. When has a video game ever managed to do that? ~SnapperTo 21:07, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Snapper, this is about the Storm series only though. In regards to abilities and art/colourations, they have been wrong very rarely, if never.--Omojuze (talk) 21:09, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * That didn't answer my question. When have they ever been "right" about something that, at the time, was unconfirmed? Colors prove nothing; they have access to the anime's designs long before we do so of course that much will be consistent. ~SnapperTo 21:17, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

Have not seen the new trailer yet, but will do. Not having read everything above, forgive me if I'm repeating something that was said already. I see that there was some back and forth in the article itself about Chōmei's contribution to the jutsu, whether it's game or manga. If the look of the jutsu in the game fits with the scale powder in the game, add it as game only, for now. I think the only way we'll be able to conclusively add scale powder is when the anime debuts this jutsu, and that's going to take a while. If the anime makes it clear enough, I think it should be ok to add it as manga as well, we've had other sorts of anime clarifying questionable manga panels before. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:28, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way is the manga itself speaking against Chomei contributing the scale powder by making it a hiden. Manga 1, video games 0. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:51, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * Hiden are not kekkei genkai though. Anyone can learn 'em. Also, Bug Bite?--Omojuze (talk) 22:01, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

A Hiden is a technique passed from generation to generation from within a clan, village, or certain region. If it was Chomei's ability, it wouldn't be classified as a hiden but rather a tailed beast skill and he would be stated to have it. Which he never was in the Manga or Fourth Databook. Therefore, it isn't his, but rather Fu's own individual technique, but the game gave Chomei the technique anyway. That's why the game is wrong in this instance. I personally believe that Chomei's element is storm release, but I don't wanna start an argument over that. So it will have to remain unknown since Chomei's element has not been confirmed yet. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 22:43, June 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * a) We all know what hiden is, we can read... b) Who said that a Tailed Beast can't have hiden? c) There is no such thing as a Tailed Beast Skill, it's a fanon term and the databook proved that. d) One of Chōmei's techniques, Bug Bite, has been classified as hiden by the databook... So.. Checkmate.--Omojuze (talk) 08:46, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bug Bite isn't Chomei's technique, it's Fu's. Hence the Hiden. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:37, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * The databook lists Chōmei as a user, so it sterns from it, given as we'd never seen it using the technique before.--Omojuze (talk) 09:40, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * just a reminder.--Omojuze (talk) 09:41, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Lol no, it does not. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:49, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then why is Chōmei listed as a user, if it doesn't... I got'chu driven into a corner dude :)--Omojuze (talk) 09:51, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because it needs Chomei's wings for it and to my knowledge, we handle it like that. Don't we? Then remove it.
 * Also, you should be aware that this isn't about someone beating someone else in a discussion or anything. Get off your high horse. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:54, June 17, 2015 (UTC)

If it needs Chomei's wings, then the technique sterns from Chomei.. xD Have I said I "beat you"? I'm just saying, one day you say one thing, the other - another thing.--Omojuze (talk) 09:56, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * If it needs Chomei's wings, then it needs Chomei's wings. Naruto needed Kurama's chakra for the Odama Rasengan, does the Odama Rasengan stem from Kurama? No. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:01, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Naruto needed Kurama's chakra in Big Ball Rasengan because he didn't have sufficient chakra himself. This, here, is not the case at all.--Omojuze (talk) 10:07, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Fu needs Chomei's wings in Bug Bite because she didn't have wings herself. Same logic, case closed. We're drifting too far away from the main topic anyway. Chomei's stays as game only contributor, kay? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:09, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with that case, but I do agree that we've drifted too much from the main discussion. Ok, it can stay for now (until the anime proves it otherwise), just to end this discussion on a good note to satisfy both sides.--Omojuze (talk) 10:15, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * So, out of curiosity, if the anime also makes it powder are we just to add it as such or are we gonna ignore it?--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 14:19, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * We're gonna add it as such. But I can't imagine them making a black orb white. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:21, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * I was more concerned with the "powder" around it.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 14:22, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't see any powder there, just wind. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:25, June 17, 2015 (UTC)

Of course you don't.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 14:26, June 17, 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course not, if you'd compare it to the powder in the Hiding in Scales technique, you'd see that it's different. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:37, June 17, 2015 (UTC)

Scale Powder 3.0 (sigh)
So now I'm back to this crap. Based on here, scale powder is yellow. Chomei based Rasenshuriken is also yellow, stupid black orb in the middle nonwithstanding. So can we please stop beating around this bush and label it as such.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:33, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Still non-canon colorations (color edition manga and games) so we can't really use 2 different possibly untrue sources to prove themselves.--Elve Talk Page 12:37, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd really like to wait for the anime to catch up to that scene. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:38, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * So instead of going off two other sources that show the technique consistently for their medium (scale powder in both) and finally putting something down, we are just going to put our fingers in our ears and go "La-la-la can't hear you" until the anime shows it? Really? By the Nine Divine...--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 12:40, August 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably the same as the games, I believe Studio Pierrot collaborates with CyberConnect no?--Elve Talk Page 12:41, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

Considering that they changed the color of Magnet Release: Rasengan to blue, I guess not. -- Questionaredude (talk) 13:13, August 13, 2015 (UTC)

Boil Release
Shouldnt we remove Kokuos Technique from the Parent Jutsu section? I think the Jutsu has nothing to do with the Rasenshuriken from Kokuo. Unrivalled Strength is used to increasing the force behind Taijutsu, while Naruto throw the Rasenshuriken. Isnt it more obvious that Kokuo just added "normal" Boil Release Chakra to the Wind Release Rasenshuriken?--Keeptfighting (talk) 10:37, September 7, 2015 (UTC)

Saiken's Contribution.
Given Saiken's Rasenshuriken resembles water, more so than acid, wouldn't it be logical to list it's contribution as Water Release? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:48, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Compare the Rasenshuriken made of Isobu and Saiken's chakra. There's clear difference. --JouXIII (talk) 12:56, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * If Mei contributed Lava Release: Melting Apparition Technique to a Rasenshuriken, it would look different compared to Son Gokū's, despite them being the same nature. The same can easily be said about Saiken contributing Starch Syrup, and Isobu contributing just water release. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 13:33, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Except Saiken's primary ability is creation of acid. --JouXIII (talk) 13:38, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Was this technique said to only include each TB's primary ability? And also was acid said to be Saiken's primary ability, because it used acid as much as syrup. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:11, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe it was based more on observation, as every other tailed beasts Rasengan was based off their primary ability.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 14:23, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * What TheUltimate3 said, plus @Sarutobii2: You're suggesting avoiding speculation by adding an even bigger piece of speculation? Remember, it was us who decided that Saiken used starch, it wasn't really mentioned in any media that it was that technique in the first place - We know for sure that Saiken can use "Wisdom Wolf Decay", so that's the safest bet; Either that or nothing...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:56, March 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * But since when does corrosive gas produce bubbles when it's not in any contact?--UltimaDude (talk) 21:07, April 7, 2016 (UTC)

To be fair, Utakata showed in his version two form that saiken can secrete liquid alkali, which could easily account for the acid/alkaline ability and the bubbles

(Hadrimon (talk) 08:41, August 29, 2016 (UTC))

Choumei
I looks quite plainly obvious now that Choumei contributed wind from the gusts around the rasenshuriken, and the colour matches the scale powder (Hadrimon (talk) 14:35, August 25, 2016 (UTC))
 * Scale powder looks nothing like that in the anime. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:08, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * In the anime, Scale Powder consists from the white shiny thingies, so it doesn't really match the colour of anime Rasenshuriken. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 18:12, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * From the coloured pics of the manga Seele provided a long time ago, the scales are yellow-ish, and so was the Rasenshuriken (kind of). But I ain't gonna open another can of worms, so take it as you want :)--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 20:41, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Omnibender, the coloration in the anime for a good amount of the Rasenshuriken are different then that of the manga, not just Chōmei's contribution with the alleged Scale Powder (and what's this contention about with the Soap Bubble Ninjutsu?). Either way, Studio Pierrot is at it again. 21:00, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Anime used the game's colors. --Sharingan91 (talk) 21:22, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Not really. Game colour matches the coloured manga, with a darkened sphere and yellowish surrounding. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:32, August 25, 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope, it didn't. While in the game it's clearly the yellow Scale Powder of the same kind the Fuu character uses in her combos, in the anime it's some kind of cloudy grey vortex of unknown nature around the Rasenshuriken itself. Checked the combo of SPSM Naruto with this technique involved to make sure. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 21:35, August 25, 2016 (UTC)

What we know about this technique is that each Rasenshuriken is infused with the special aspets/chakra properties of each individual tailed beast. Now putting that into consideration what do we know about Chomei the seven tails? Chomei is able to utilize insect-related techniques and possesses the ability to fly which it grants to its Jinchūriki. We don't have a lot to go by other than that. Naruto's Wind Release: Rasenshuriken already is wind style so that elimanates Chomei's controbution being wind as far as I know. From the color of the anime we see a dark blue wind surrounding an orange sphere. Now this is just a guess but I believe Chomei's contribution isn't a chakra nature but rather its unique ability to fly. I came up with this by looking at Chōmei's body the dark blue wind surround the 7 tails Rasenshuriken is the same color as Chomei's body/shell the dark orange center is the same color as Chomei's wings which may possibly be scale dust as several insects are able to shed scales from their wings which is essentially is scale dust. The orange color is also similar to the previous game techniques used by Fu in the video game but this is just a guess.--Tuxedo12 (talk) 02:30, August 28, 2016 (UTC)

His power of flight? Lol Sage Naruto can already levitate. The blue wind may be gale style or storm style? The only thing we know choumei can use offensively is the scale powder. The power of flight as an attack is silly

(Hadrimon (talk) 11:08, August 28, 2016 (UTC))


 * Jesus anime, what the shit? You had one job and that was to make this hell clear.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 12:33, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Storm Release and Scale Powder, thank me later. Come on people, use little deduction... Madara used Storm Release out of nowhere, with it most likely having been from a Tailed Beast. And since all of the other shurikens are apparently something else, with the exception of one, which is unknown, the one might as well be deduced as Storm Release.--Elve Talk Page 15:43, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * But Madara didn't absorb a Tailed Beast and the databook attribute his abilities to the Sage of Six Paths' powers. - Seelentau Talk 15:45, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, we should remember that the Scale Powder is presented as a Chomei's ability only in the games. In the manga/anime/other sources the one who used the Scale Powder is technically Fuu alone, and this ability was never attributed to her Tailed Beast (even while it seems quite fitting for the insect-like beast like Chomei). So Chomei must've possessed some kind of ability which was never revealed, but still exists, and this ability enhanced its Rasenshuriken in this technique. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 16:48, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * Everyone sees what he wants to see. Tailed Beast and Jinchūriki have similar abilities (Kokuo-Han, Roshi-Son Goku...). I think we haven't had clarification why this is implied. Scale Powder is the unique ability associated with Fuu and Chomei, as Bubble Soap with Utakata and Saiken (anime and game). It's useless to create all these paranoia (Storm release, Wind Release, Typhoon Release or Acid...)--Sharingan91 (talk) 19:44, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not a paranoia. In almost all the Jinchuriki cases it was clearly stated (in the official sources like manga/databooks) which abilities used by them come directly from the Beasts themselves (Lava Release of Son Goku, Boil Releaase of Kokuou etc). It's not a coincidence - some abilities of Jinchuriki are just granted to them by the Beasts, but they still are shinobi and thus can develop the abilities of their own, without always relying on the Biju's power.
 * Anyway, Chomei was never called a user of the Scale Powder - it's a fact. Both manga/anime colouring shows something different from Scale Powder - it's also a fact. Why is it so hard to put this together? Chomei clearly possesses some kind of ability which was neither properly shown nor explained. Ravenlot 27 (talk) 20:15, August 28, 2016 (UTC)

Lets just logically think for a moment and say Chomei possessed the ability in the manga. It would make as much sense to infuse a technique that visually obstructs an opponent into a rasenshuriken as it would be for Kurama to infuse negative emotions sensing into his rasenshuriken. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:27, August 28, 2016 (UTC)

In the colored Manga panels that were posted on Hiden: Hiding in Scale Powder Technique and Chomei's talkpages. The technique that Fu uses and the technique that Naruto infuses into his Rasenshuriken are the same color. His Rasenshuriken is yellow just like Fu's scale powder and it looks extra windy, so logically Chomei's natures would be wind and his special ability is scale powder. The databooks have forgotten to list certain things before, so I don't know why some arguments are entirely dependent on the databook not listing Chomei as a user. The ability is insect-based, and all of the other jinchuriki used abilities derived from their beasts against Naruto and Killer B. It only makes sense that Chomei uses wind and scale powder based on what we've seen. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 23:11, August 28, 2016 (UTC)
 * The other tailed beast powers aren't Hiden, though. And we all know what Hiden techniques are. Maybe it's like Son and Roshi, but there's no canon indication for that. The Rasenshuriken has no light particles or the kirakira sound words and what's more, it's made up of a black-ish orb which has zero connection to scale powder. In the anime, the difference is even more obvious, with a golden ball and the grey smoke-wind-whateveritis. Maybe we'll get a Pierrot blog post about it, but aside from that, there's no explanation, I'm afraid. - Seelentau Talk 00:13, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Tau, Hiden jutsu with uses Fuu is only of the jutsu of Scale Powder, probaly Chomei doesn't uses this jutsu but another with uses S.P (there is a wood release with is Hiden, but is only this jutsu. Not all W.R. is hiden!). As Saiken doesn't use all jutsu soap bubble ninjutsu but only jutsu Water Release: Bubbles Technique --Sharingan91 (talk) 05:15, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * That's true, but it doesn't make Chomei any more likely to be a user of Scale Powder. Furthermore, the databook says that the Rasen Shuriken are equipped with the "special chakra properties" of the Tailed Beasts. Is Scale Powder even a special chakra property? - Seelentau Talk 11:15, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Scale Powder is as Ink or Acid-Bubbles --Sharingan91 (talk) 11:20, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * And what's the proof for that? - Seelentau Talk 11:44, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Can we, like, pls stop beating a dead horse; We waited for the anime to "prove" that it's scale powder, and it "proved" that it ain't. If the addition of scale powder was not "proven" last time (before the anime debut), it won't be "proven" again by using the same repetitive arguments that "prove" nothing...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 11:51, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * @Tau, Fuu releases S.P. by mouth.--Sharingan91 (talk) 12:01, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * At this point, I am willing to go C-Canon route. In that list, note Scale Powder (as per Video Game), add an note to it that it is unclear what the hell it was in both the manga and the anime and the closest we got to something is in the anime.
 * This way, our list doesn't have a big "Unknown" in the middle of it, and we point out that the anime/manga was unclear so for now, we use the closest to a actual answer we have.
 * Everyone wins, unless you want to be difficult for the sake of being difficult.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 12:25, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then we find out that it's just silk, Chomei's Cocoon. XD --Sharingan91 (talk) 15:19, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Saiken
That would still leave us with an unknown liquid for Saiken. Because it could either be slime or acid. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 12:33, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Slime?^^ It's acid in the manga and soap bubbles in the anime. - Seelentau Talk 14:18, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * This liquid could also be used in the manga. Furthermore, those bubbles look more like blobs of water, and in the digital manga and game it's coloured blue, all of which suggest Saiken's contribution is this liquid and not acid as we're assuming. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:34, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * How does the Starch Syrup technique resemble this in any way? And how do the bubbles look like water? Everytime Utakata uses bubble ninjutsu, they're depicted as normal soap bubbles with an even surface. - Seelentau Talk 14:44, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * he blobs resemble water being deformed by the spinning of the Rasenshuriken. Better question is how can they be acid bubbles without any sign of gas to generate them from? If it clearly was acid as that image you linked made it out to be, every other media outside of the manga would have depicted it as such, but they chose water for a reason. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:22, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Why can't they be Soap Bubbles again?--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 15:26, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * ^same question here. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 17:16, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Were soap bubbles ever associated with Saiken in the manga? - Seelentau Talk 17:46, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * Were acid bubbles (that weren't generated from gas) ever associated with Saiken in the manga? 1 and only technique that creates just bubbles in the manga is Soap Bubble Ninjutsu. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 18:19, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * And soap bubbles never looked like this. Again, I say it's acid in the manga and water in the anime. - Seelentau Talk 18:21, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
 * If we must be sincere, left image appears to foam. But then, a gas creates bubbles when it is released in the air??--Sharingan91 (talk) 08:32, August 31, 2016 (UTC)