Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-29517168-20160328040252/@comment-142748-20160401185240

9 Arts dragon wrote: 1.Im not denying anything but you're honestly just flat out downplaying Madara yourself despite all of his showings and yes they did struggle Sasuke needed perfect susano and Naruto needed to use his remaining TSB to destroy something Madara referred to as nothing but mere "rain drops". No, I'm not downplaying Madara at all. You're exaggerating him to an insane amount. You're denying Naruto and Sasuke's feats. Sasuke and Naruto casually dealt with his best attacks and he ran to execute Mugen Tsukuyomi. Naruto recreated his Gudodama and Sasuke used Complete Body - Susanoo casually. 2.No they are not planets wtf? We saw Sasuke and kinshiki fight in her ice dimension and it showed a moon in it? How do you know Madara can't teleport he never even used his third eye besides for IT. What he can use techniques out of Kaguyas Arsenal yet can't teleport is that it? Lol not a chance. They are planets. They're so far away from each other and we see one from space when Six Paths Chibaku Tensei was formed. Chapter 690, page 11, clear view of Kaguya's main 'dimension' which shows its a planet they're on.

Madara can't teleport. He has no idea what Kaguya could even do with her Rinne Sharingan, so he doesn't have her feats. Sakura did damage nonetheless... Basically snapping a twig. Its not a big feat at all and its not a feat against Kaguya. You're being nitpicky and wanting to make Kaguya out to be weaker than she actually was so you can satisfy Madara being the stronger character. And Kaguya is still not impressive despite power lacking brains which is a essential factor in a fight Kaguya not impressive?


 * Casual teleportation between worlds, making genjutsu into reality
 * Planetbusting capability
 * Can disintegrate people with All Killing Ash Bones
 * Can pulverize a Six Paths powered Complete Body - Susanoo with casual attacks
 * Can absorb chakra better than anyone in the series
 * Can open rifts in space time and teleport between them

Kaguya isn't a fighter, but she showed that her overwhelming power is capable of beating anyone. The only way to defeat her is by sealing her, and the only seal strong enough is Hagoromo's. Madara isn't in the same class at all. 3.Two eyes Madara ran? He just used IT and came back he didn't run from anything he was even taunting them before using the IT and saying dying all together should all be considered team work. Yes, he ran. Instead of fighting Naruto and Sasuke and ending the threat there, he chose to use diversions and fly up and execute Mugen Tsukuyomi. Its obvious from that portrayal he himself realized he couldn't defeat either of them or both at once.

Madara's boast was empty. If he backed it up, you'd have a point. But instead? He ran. He used Limbo and Chibaku Tensei to keep Naruto and Sasuke busy so he could use his last resort and use Mugen Tsukuyomi in an attempt to end the battle. It failed since Sasuke's Rinnegan and Complete Body - Susanoo are immune to his Mugen Tsukuyomi. What did Madara do? It's what Madara has which is easily superior to what they have? Doesn't matter what he has. If his feats are inferior, it means he is inferior. His third eye > Sasukes rinnegan His rinnegans > Sasuke EMS If that was the case, why could Sasuke's Rinnegan and Complete Body - Susanoo block Madara's best technique? Seriously, you're ignoring Sasuke is immune to Mugen Tsukuyomi because of his Rinnegan, making the whole 'well Madara has the Rinne Sharingan and its automatically better' false. His six paths mode = Narutos Actually, in their clash, Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode is superior to Madara's Six Paths Coffin Seal. Naruto can use the powers of all the Biju, while Madara cannot for one. And Naruto showed far better speed and power than Madara did. All of those together >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Them individually Except the manga explicitly showed that to be false. And you love ignoring what they did during their second Valley of the End battle, or ignore what they did in The Last and Boruto the Movie. You cling to this despite lacking evidence and flat out ignoring what Naruto and Sasuke actually did. Madaras feats are performing techniques out of Kaguyas Arsenal casually Madara never performed Kaguya's best techniques at all. Hell he only did ONE technique in her arsenal. He can't do anything else since he lacks the knowledge to do so and most importantly, the power and chakra to do so. Remember when Black Zetsu forced Madara to change into Kaguya? There was so much chakra going into Madara he would explode since he couldn't control it. Kaguya? Effortlessly controls it. IT & shin jokai koutan >>>>>>>>> Any feat hagoromo has done Hagoromo creating a moon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mugen Tsukuyomi. Nothing Madara did came close to that.

Not to mention the fact that Hagoromo possesses the Rinnegan and the Tailed Beasts means he can shatter Mugen Tsukuyomi and Shin Jokai Kotan as easily as Naruto and Sasuke did after their fight. If Madara can use Kaguyas moves why can't he do stuff hagoromo did?... Madara can't use Kaguya's moves. He can only use Mugen Tsukuyomi. He lacks the chakra and power to do Kaguya's other techniques. Stop giving him feats he doesn't have. That makes zero sense It makes perfect sense. Madara's power isn't close to Hagoromo's or Kaguya's power, he was, probably years from now, going to reach it, but he never did. Toneri was beaten by a chakra mode Naruto he may have impressive feats but by obvious scaling he's nowhere near Juubidara heck I wouldn't say he's Juubito level by how casually he got defeated
 * facepalm

Toneri was beaten by a stronger, two years trained Six Paths chakra using Tailed Beast Sage Mode Naruto. He has better feats than Obito and Madara combined yet you say he's weaker?! For fuck's sake, can you wear your bias on your sleeve? The fact Toneri can casually absorb anyone's chakra who doesn't have Hamura's chakra protecting them, move the moon with his own power, and cut the moon in half. Not to mention the sheer speed and strength feats he showed (zipping all over the moon with his fight with Naruto in seconds) shows he's beyond what Obito and Madara did.

Newsflash, if someone has superior feats, it means they are stronger. Toneri faced a stronger Naruto. And yes Naruto was weakened he had no Kurama it was not bijuu mode but mere chakra mode at that Naruto wasn't weakened. He and Kurama are link. And yes, it was Biju Mode since Naruto summoned Kurama in the first place. And it had Sage Mode added in since Naruto had the markings on his eyes and the cross eyes.

Naruto wasn't weakened at all. It was never stated at all, you're claiming it without evidence. Mugen tsukuyomi did not fail on them Sasuke had to repel it via rinne sharingan Naruto would've been caught in it as well not that it matters Mugen Tsukuyomi did fail. While it caught everyone else, Sasuke blocked it and protected Team 7. The fact Madara couldn't get them shows it failed on the greater scale since it led to Kaguya's and Madara's ultimate defeat. Momoshiki was being kept up with by kages with no kinshiki absorbed kages who get blitzed and curbstomped by either base Madara or hashirama at that.Moreover his stamina was terrible he only fought back after absorbing ninjutsu from others after receiving a blow from kyuubi Susano he's no shit to madara never will be just because he came after Madara you think he's stronger despite kishimotos showings placing Madara above him please...-_- You...do realize that speaks more about the current generation of Kages NOT against Momoshiki, right? If the current gen of Kages can perform this well, it means they are stronger than the last generation. New generation surpasses the old, remember?

Madara is weaker than Momoshiki from feats and portrayal. He did nothing close to Momoshiki. And he was weaker, from feats, than teenage Naruto and Sasuke while Momoshiki held his own against adult Naruto and Sasuke who are much stronger. Kaguya also quote on quote "ran from them"? Does that make them stronger than her? Kaguya only fled since she was in danger of being sealed. She was comfortably overpowering Naruto and Sasuke, remember? Its only when she was boxed and cornered in she tried to flee to another world of her's. Not at all that's flawed argument plus he only activated IT didn't flee as she did constantly... Madara fled since he couldn't engage Naruto and Sasuke. It was made painfully obvious. Madara's techniques, Limbo and Chibaku Tensei were being casually dealt with by Naruto alone. All in all they are not stronger than him individually as I said why???

Because of things established within the series he has everything they both possess together have and more

Together they have a chance sure He may have possessed what they had together individually, but overall his feats are inferior. Overall, he ran when he couldn't face them directly. Overall, it showed he was weaker than they were.