Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-26005711-20150516202714/@comment-25478058-20150530103148

Shisui's skill level is overhyped imo. His best thing is Kotamatsukami, and in my opinion that is why he ripped his own eye out. He wasn't strong enough to protect his first eye from Danzo (who was defeated by MS Sasuke), so he ripped out his remaining eye and gave it to Itachi, who he knew actually was strong enough to protect it.

That said. If it's Akatsuki at full power without Sasuke, vs Hashi, Madara, and Shisui, I still give it to Team Hashi because the idea of dogpiling on Madara is ridiculous to me, Susanoo Wood Clones anyone? Itachi and Nagato are the only hope for the Akatsuki, if Madara could get Gaara and Tsunade he could get Deidara and Kisame. Full power Madara could counter Nagato's Rinnegan with his own, and Itachi's genjutsu probably wouldn't be able to overpower the man who performed the Infinite Tsukuyomi, a perfect genjutsu cast on the entire world. Shisui could do his Kotoamatsukami, which indeed would be useful, but not necessary to beat them. What Shisui should spend his time on is taking care of Hidan and Sasori (defeated by Shikamaru and Sakura at pre-war power levels), and then he wouldn't need to use Koto. Orochimaru is the perpetual unknown but Hashirama can heal anything, and he can easily handle the remaining members, Kakuzu, Konan, and Zetsu. (Black Zetsu stabbing Madara was PNJ at its absolute lowest point and I am not taking that as any kind of evidence of BZ's "strength.")

The addition of full power Sasuke changes the whole battle. Sasuke can defeat Madara, and without Madara to handle Itachi's genjutsu, Hashirama could go down to Tsukuyomi, plus he now has to deal with Nagato's Rinnegan and the still-standing Sasuke. The only chance for beating Akatsuki with Sasuke is Shisui's Kotoamatsukami used on Sasuke. That is when his presence becomes crucial to winning. Team Hashi with Sasuke smashes the Akatsuki.

In this match-up, Shisui basically becomes a silver bullet to be guarded, not an actual fighter. Madara might as well just yoink one of his eyes the way he stole Kakashi's and give it back after the fight.

EDITED: I am considering full-power Madara as alive, two-Rinnegan Madara minus the Juubi, so essentially his level during the Five Kage fight. I don't know Madara's chakra limit, but it appears to be massive judging by his fights with Hashirama, so I didn't take it into too much account.

I didn't address Obito in this but I was considering him at the level of when he fought Konan, pre-Rinnegan, because Nagato would have those Rinnegan. I don't think Obito at that level is a problem for Madara, simply due to Madara's speed and taijutsu ability. Juubito is a totally different story, but I didn't want to bring the Juubi into this fight. Full power Sasuke has the Sharinnegan, because he obtained that before Madara absorbed the Juubi.

EDITED AGAIN: If there was a two-rinnegan alive Madara, then technically Nagato wouldn't be able to have Rinnegan. But no one would care about that fight, so whatever lol.