Talk:Space–Time Migration

technique classification
I'ts a Mongekyo technique because it's similar to Kakashi's Mongekyo Sharingan technique.

When was that stated? Never. We don't know alot about Madara. And just because something is similar it dosen't make it that same. Plus you spelt Mangekyo wrong.--Inferuno Ryuu 18:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

well the newest chapters do make it seem like kakashi's time/space warping jutsu, atleast when he shows up and for the lofe of gods Inferuno Ryuu not everyone knows how to spell perfect so who cares if (s)he spelled it wrong huh?Faustfan (talk) 19:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest Madara's teleportation does look a a lot like Kamui, but if those powers are related, Madara's (with everything he can do with this technique) is otherworldly when compared to Kakashi's. It will be interesting to see if those two powers are related at all. - MadaraU (talk) 18:21, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Teleportation
Maybe it was just me. But I think we just saw Madara teleporting and there was like a red/pink flash.
 * I saw that too. It would be a more interesting image to put in the article, more than the current ones. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:50, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * Currently, there's no place in the article to add it...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 02:46, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * We could remove one of the current images and add that one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:37, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

yea i agree with omnibender....could we replace one of the old pictures for the new 1?--Moiz1224 (talk) 05:49, September 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * The currect 2 images show some important aspects of the technique..1 the phasing through, and 2 the actual way he teleports....dont think either can be removed, unless of an anime pic, showing the same thing..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 05:51, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

just put the 2 teleportation pics together, in the same pic --89.122.145.106 (talk) 22:26, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Dimension
Can we please get a picture of sasuke and karin in the "new dimension" that madara sent them to? Narutosagemaster (talk) 06:47, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Images
Madaras Teleporting Technique has appeared in he anime alreadey, so just wondering..... could someone add the picture of the red flash of Madaras and the anime version of narutos rasengan passing through madara.plz :D

Thanks :D
I just wanted to thank the person who changed the picture :D

Time-space jutsu?
I understand the space part, he can warp space, but do we ever see him manipulating time? Yeah, I remember Kakashi calling it a 'time-space jutsu'. Flying Thunder God technique is time-space since Minato could probably stop or slow down the time flow, but that's not the same as Madara does. --Kiadony (talk) 09:17, December 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * spacetime. ~SnapperTo 18:07, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Then it should be named *spacetime* jutsu. I don't think Kishimoto did the research like that, but it just seemed to me that time flow in Naruto universe is more or less constant and I don't remember any relativistic references. I know I said myself that you can't go sci-fi nerd on Naruto, but I guess I can't help it >.< --Kiadony (talk) 19:36, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * In relativity, space and time are one and the same. That "time" is part of the term does not necessarily mean Madara can manipulate time. ~SnapperTo 20:04, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * He can't manipulate space either. What it means is that Madara can travel through time and space, meaning he can trvel to the other side of the universe without any time passing at all, literally, or he can stay exactly where he is and ten years could pass, or even both. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 20:38, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the ability to transport objects into another dimension is the manipulation of space... Simant (talk) 20:43, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Manipulating space means controling and changing space; transport means to move which is what I explained is what his technique can do; move through space and time. 24.45.20.86 (talk) 00:42, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

If Naruto was relativistic, then Madara would create wormholes. He, however, uses what Wikipedia calls a 'dimensional teleportation', which doesn't fit into any scientific theories. So it shouldn't technically involve the time part at all. But I guess 'time-space jutsu' happens to sound fancy so whatever. --Kiadony (talk) 18:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

technically madara does use space form and space and time interlinked but the space form is when he uses hes teleport to make him intangible actually manipulting space around him also teleporting is moving through fabric of space and time u see i dont think madara would time travel hes got all those rules hed have to follow and ruin his plan u cant interact with past things or it could screw everything up.

Well, he bends time and space. This is where one of einstains theorys are a good example. Let's say that i would walk from point A to point B. It would take me X seconds/minutes/hours etc to get there. What Madara does is that he simply moves from point A to B without occupiaing the space between. The time is altered aswell do to that A-->B/X-x2=Y As Y would be the result of Madara teleporting. He simply shatters the law of time and distance.

Dōjutsu?
Should we classify this as a dōjutsu? After all, it seems to concentrate on the right eye, what with the swirling and suction into it every time. Yatanogarasu 20:20, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Name and other stuff.
The name is kind of off, what with it not being limited to teleportation. :P Also, I thought the "teleports body parts" thing was just a theory made by Team Good Guy that has since been disproven with the revelation that Madara has true intangibility?Onomatopoeia (talk) 22:53, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't this jutsu be renamed to dimensional transfer since that's what Madara refers to it as in chapter 510? ItachiZero (talk) 22:19, September 19, 2010 (UTC)ItachiZero

Didn't see the raw, but it most likely said something like Jikūkan, which translates into spacetime. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:21, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Weakness
During the battle between Naruto & Sasuke, Madara quickly protested against Kakashi's attempt at using Kamui against him, while most of the time he simply pretends to be hit and lets the jtsu pass through him. --RinneganLov63 (talk) 02:03, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

No, actully kakashi did use kamui but madara quikley canceled the jutsu so its not a weakness.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 20:29, December 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * ...What? What manga are you reading? Before Kakashi could use Kamui, Tobi told him not to bother because it wouldn't work. He never used it.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 20:32, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Suction Effect
During his battle against Konan, Madara tries to warp himself away. In this particular panel it appears as if Madara almost sucked in the explosive note, as opposed to Konan sending the notes into Madara when he attempted to teleport.--RinneganLov63 (talk) 19:22, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

A Term We Might Want to Use
During their fight, Konan refers to Madara's space–time jumping as. We migth want to somehow work this into the article. —ShounenSuki (talk 17:25, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Unless there is another mention somewhere in past chapters about the name of his ability, I think is the most canon name we have for it. I see no problem in listing it as the technique's name until we either get more exposition or a databook. We'll just need to source it properly. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:31, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Bumping name discussion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:17, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that's fine it's an official source after all. Besides it has a nice ring to it ^^--Cerez365 (talk) 12:53, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

intangibility?
When fighting Konan,his teleportation/dimension eye technique was made distinct from his intangibility,so shouldn't they be separated into different jutsu's? 67.65.161.176 (talk) 04:07, February 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * If they were....wouldn't he have been able to use them simultaneously then? --Cerez☺ (talk) 09:32, February 17, 2011 (UTC)

Actually I wanted to ask the same. are we sure that these two abilities are one jutsu? --86.97.211.26 (talk) 21:07, March 6, 2011 (UTC) eastfire
 * Ever since his encounter with Team Kakashi and Team Kurenai, it was suggested that the intangibility is him selectively teleporting parts of his body. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:11, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

yes but this is later proven wrong as stated in the article. --86.97.211.26 (talk) 21:59, March 6, 2011 (UTC)eastfire
 * Explaining this in a satisfactory manner would probably require me to understand physical concepts that are beyond my understanding. Long story short, we know too little to say. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:14, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

it also could be possible he cant use ANY jutsu when he's intangible(his chakra vanishes right?,or was that teleportation).and the telportation was just a example.but it was clearly stated that his intangibility and his teleportation are different.(is should be mentoned that someone shouldnt be able to affect someone if their un touchable,aka sucked into a dimention).well,for now i think we should just leave it here until we get more info.but they have completly different effects and properties,their not even the same jutsu type 68.88.7.114 (talk) 01:38, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Teleporting stuff without physical contact.
The article says that Madara needs to touch a person or an object to warp it, and I guess it's always true in the manga, but in episode 208, he teleports Fū without touching him (at about 14:11). Should it be counted as an anime error and added somewhere? --kiadony 18:28, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

By the looks of it, Madara never touched Karin before warping her >.> (Chapter 467, Page 8) and it was the same in the Anime as far as I remember :]--Comasbasks (talk) 18:37, July 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well in the manga when Madara teleports Fū you don't really see him touching him, too, but it can be assumed that he did it since he was rather close, same for Karin. He appears right behind her, IIRC. In the anime however Madara "sucks in" Fū while being on a considerable distance. --kiadony 07:27, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * For both instances with Karin and Fū, can you say for certain that he didn't touch them somehow? Because from the angles we're given it's more than possible. We're simply going off the information that was stated in his fights with Konan an Minato.--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:12, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I'm saying. In the manga, Madara is pretty close to both Karin and Fū, so it can be assumed that he touched them. The anime shows Madara warping Fū from a different angle, and the distance between them is shown, too. --kiadony 15:52, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

What about Sasuke ? Didn't Tobi sucked him in without physical contact? --Elveonora (talk) 05:24, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge. After he spoke to Naruto, he had his hand on his shoulder. The main case against this is that pre-FTG, every time he tried to warp Minato, he attempted to touch him first. It could be argued that that was to speed things up, but the actual touching seems to be a requirement as of now. Skitts (talk) 05:31, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

You are rigt, thanks. Then animators did it wrong since it was clearly seen Tobi using it without touching. --Elveonora (talk) 05:42, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Minato's technique used seals to set a destination, where he seemed to be able to define the target offhand. Maybe Tobi's technique is the opposite? As in, he can warp anywhere(within certain reasonable limits) but in order to warp something he has to place a seal on it first? This would explain why he is able to do it without touching the person as long as he had touched them before. Skarn22 (talk) 01:09, November 17, 2011 (UTC)

Anime Image
Aren't these three images :- 1 2 3 doing the work of the previous image. The previous image was from manga and this si from anime. The technique is also well depicted in there three images. akz! (talk)   16:19, September 20, 2011 (UTC)

no replies? Should I change it? akz! (talk)   14:19, September 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a single image showing everything, I think we're good. So no.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:25, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

phisycall contact
I know that the space time migration technique gives you the intagbility in wich the user cant be touched unless he is in phisycall contact.but still doesn't that mean that while using this technique he can't be in phisycall contact with objects like WEAPONS!!!! or even CLOTHES!!!!!!!!!?????????
 * While Madara is intangible, he cannot hold stuff, they'll just slip through him.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 13:35, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Dependence on mass & size?
Where was it stated or shown that the amount of time needed to transport a target depends on its mass (or size/volume)? That statement is unsupported. I know it's logical but as far as this manga is concerned it's speculation. But if I've missed something in the manga can someone please tell me where to look at? --NoJutsu (talk) 20:53, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * The one instance I recall something being said about the mass transported was when Minato told Gamabunta he'd need to use a lot of chakra to transport the Nine-Tails, which indeed is huge. Don't know if it's valid to expand that too other space-time ninjutsu, though it seems to hold true: using more chakra gets you bigger summons. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:14, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Naruto vs Tobi/Madara
Not 100% sure why it was deleted. I suppose it looked bad at least in the history. It should also be noted that Tobi was unable to pass through Naruto while in his Kyuubi chakra mode. Naruto chapter 564, page 1.

^valid tid-bit of information. And no, its not because Naruto is coated in just chakra. Its a special case because even naruto's rasengan passed through madara eliminating the possibility that his ability is nullified by chakra of any kind. We never saw if the chakra chains could pass through minato in their fight. For all we know he materialized after passing through him to make his chains tangible.

Anyway, thats all besides the point. What im sayin is that Naruto can hit Tobi even when he tries to become tangible and that chapter I referenced is proof of that. I quote tobi "I should have passed through you" then he says something about how naruto couldn't even break his mask.User:Devon Lambert - Talk - Contributions 7:39, April 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmm, if Tobi had said something like: 'He can touch me when i'm intangible' then ok, however your proof isn't conclusive enough for me. Comasbasks (talk) 06:52, April 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Tobi was suprised by Naruto hitting him and his comment about not passing through Naruto is good proof that Naruto nullified his technique somehow. TricksterKing (talk) 10:01, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Uhm. Naruto is not able to nullify his ability in any way. Where did you get that notion from. What happened when the two men butt heads was simply Tobi being "badass" and saying he should've slipped through Naruto to save his time but it would have been a waste because he wasn't even able to scratch his mask. There's noting more to what happened right there.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:02, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

That wasn't how it was translated through mangareaders, Tobi seemed suprised that he got hit and that Naruto's headbutt didn't damage his mask, Tobi wanting to get hit doesn't really make sense considering he does everything possible to avoid attacks in other fights. TricksterKing (talk) 00:30, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Still works if Tobi was simply surprised at finding Naruto, and didn't slip through it in time. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Out of this entire debate I think I could understand why Tobi was surprised by being hit by Naruto based off of Omnibender's explanation. Naruto is pretty damn fast so I guess it makes since in that regard. >He saw Naruto but was hit before he could materialize in time.User:Devon Lambert - Talk - Contributions 5:33, April 24, 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand why people are taking something meant to be more symbolic than anything else and turning it into something else. If Kishimoto had wanted Naruto to be able to counter Tobi's migration technique, I'm sure he would've spent more time on it. especially down in the part where it start to rain and Tobi's all reassuring himself and stuff, it wouldn't just be passed over like that.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 05:45, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Why isn't this written down somewhere
When Tobi fights Minato, Minato is able to land a huge rasengan on Tobi and injure him after throwing his kunai through Tobi's head. When he throws the kunai, Tobi materializes a part of his head right? (to avoid damage) and Minato was able to land his rasengan on him. Can someone please provide a logical explanation to how that works, like is there a disadvantage to Tobi's Jutsu? Can he only materialize one part of his body at a time? And why isn't anything about this written down somewhere in this wiki? //Filipinoboy97
 * Tobi makes himself tangible to hit minato because he feels he is faster than minato but minato uses ftg to teleport to the kunai and lands rasengan when he is still tangible Salil2212™ Uchiha Symbol.svg (talk) 17:02, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

What happened was: Minato throws kunai→ Tobi phases through it. Tobi then became tangible in order to grab Minato after that but Minato (who had planned this) teleports to the kunai while in mid-flight and hits Tobi with the Rasengan. It's mentioned in both their articles, and on the Flying Thunder God Technique article. What was done there was nothing special though.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:20, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh ok thanks.

Speed of technique
I am somewhat confused about the speed of this technique. Tobi was able to save Sasuke from Ōnoki's Dust Release technique but he was not able to escape Konan's technique. How is it logical?Undominanthybrid (talk) 15:13, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * You're putting too much thought into it that's why. In any case he has to be tangible when he absorbs himself or anything else so if he had tried to teleport away the second he was tangible Konon set off an explosion.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:21, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Can't make out what you meant.37.40.180.183 (talk) 15:38, June 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * Stop over-thinking it.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:51, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

I always assumed he pulled Sasuke through the ground when he saved him, since A goes right through Sasuke moments later.--BeyondRed (talk) 18:01, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi began teleporting, and then Konan put exploding tags on him. Had he continued to teleport, the explosions would have hit him, so he turned intangible. To teleport himself, he has to become tangible. He could only remain intangible for five minutes, at the end of which, he becomes tangible. Konan put him in a situation that the only thing keeping him alive was his intangibility, the explosions, but she arranged so the explosions would continue for ten minutes, meaning that at some point, Tobi's intangibility would give out, and he would turn tangible, and as such, susceptible to the explosions. It's not a matter of how fast the technique can be activated, but for how long it can be kept active. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:02, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Are not Tobi's intangibility and Space-time powers 2 different techniques ?--Elveonora (talk) 00:02, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kinda, but Konan still talked about them like they were the same thing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:15, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

I always thought about them as separate techniques. Should not we have a separate article for the "intangibility technique" ?--Elveonora (talk) 00:54, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both of them were referred to as the same. I don't think they should be split, at least not now. This is not like a Madara and Tobi issue. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

The talk has diverted. None of you all answered the question. It was a doubt that I also had for a long time.37.40.228.237 (talk) 17:15, July 17, 2012 (UTC)

Apparently there one in the same now.... mak

Both eyes
Remember when Tobi released Fū and Torune from the other dimension? It seems that used both of his eyes to do so. Is it possible that he can use both of his eyes for the Space-Time Migration is chooses to?--Black Ronin8 (talk) 01:32, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

Remember, Tobi had the Rinnegan and the Sharingan at that time. X29, 01:36 AM, August 6, 2012.

I do, so is that a yes? If so, does that mean the rinnegan is also capable of that power?--Black Ronin8 (talk) 08:02, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

He clearly uses just his Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 08:32, August 6, 2012 (UTC)

sorry but i have to disagree. if you look at the holes on his mask (for his eyes) you see the swirling vortex releasing fu and torune coming from just his right eye.98.26.245.37 (talk) 08:35, August 6, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan