Talk:Kurama/Archive 5

Game images
I know this isn't usually done, but since we've got canon scenes in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3, should we use them in replacement of certain images (such as the one showing Kurama and Naruto teaming up) until an anime image comes up ? Or do we still want to use the manga images ? --Speysider Talk Page 21:15, March 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can you show us the image first?--Elveonora (talk) 21:21, March 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * You'll have to wait for me to actually do the game on YT first to get the image, if someone else has the game and can get an image, feel free. --Speysider Talk Page 09:36, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

False Info
"Kurama was also believed to be played a role in enhancing the Uzumaki clan's healing ability that Naruto inherited from his mother." Why is this mentioned ? Kurama's main abilities is to rapidly regenerate any damage to Naruto which is true so this statement should be reworded and cited. --Speysider Talk Page 16:33, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Did a databook actually ever confirm that Kurama heals Naruto, or rather stating that Kurama has a healing power just like Shukaku controls sand? Characters in-universe attribute it to the fox, doesn't make it true. The fox's chakra might as well only enhance Naruto's already extraordinary regeneration from his Uzumaki blood or something.--Elveonora (talk) 16:40, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Did it ever say Uzumaki's had healing abilities? just that they had great vitality--Deathmailrock (talk) 20:49, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Whats with the downplay?
Why is there a serious, concentrated effort to rob Kurama of the feats of durability or power he shown in the manga from the article? --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 07:56, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * To me it appears to be a case of an opposite effort. No need to over-emphasize its feats and make it seem better than is--Elveonora (talk) 11:17, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Getting the feats of durability and power in the manga are needed, it makes the article more accurate. There is a concentrated effort to rob anything that Kurama has done away from his article.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:06, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Provide some links to edits you believe to remove valid information that is not stated elsewhere in the article already. — S im A nt 19:13, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Black Ninetails?
was the nine tails in RTN really black??? cause when it was summoned, it looked kinda a bit red and when Naruto's Ninetails fought Menma's, they both looked black.... so it could have just been the lighting that he looked black--Deathmailrock (talk) 20:54, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe Black Nine-Tails is the official name. Not sure where it came from exactly.--BeyondRed (talk) 21:00, May 31, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually Black Nine-Tails is the official name, but yea it doesn't appear all that black in the movie. It did look kinda normal to me. But what is official is official and there's no changing that.

could there be a source of where the name "Black Nine-Tails" came from? was it in the movie or a certain article?--71.118.21.234 (talk) 08:34, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Guys, I just saw the whole nine tails fight again, and I never heard any "kuro kyūbi" throughout.. There was this line "kyūbi to kyūbi no kyome.." in the film but it only means "Nine Tails and Nine Tails resonance..". So, I don't think "Black Nine-Tails" is official. Perhaps we can call it the "Nine Tails of the Limited Tsukuyomi World" or something like that but no Black Nine-Tails for sure.

The Black Nine-Tails name is official. Check out the name of the song from the movie soundtrack. KazeKitsune (talk) 14:24, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * But they never refer to the other Kyūbi as "Kuro Kyūbi" in the movie. They only refer to it as "Kyūbi" and nothing else..

Look in the movie black kurama and regular kurama are different because of their coler when they fought over the water you could see that Black Nine-Tails is indeed darker than Kurama so he is Black it's just the nighttime scence confuses things a bitWhiteraven1 (talk) 17:13, June 2, 2013 (UTC)(Whiteraven1)

Unique trait
Another thing I've been meaning to bring up. Shouldn't we be adding telepathy as a unique trait to all the Tailed Beasts? They have demonstrated it amongst themselves and their Jinchuriki. Skitts (talk) 20:54, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's mentioned on the main Tailed Beast page but yeah, it should be mentioned somewhere on their pages as well.TricksterKing (talk) 22:16, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Separate article for the Yin Half?
Since it seems like the half of Kurama that was split is a full-fledged Tailed Beast with it's own mind and consciousness that's separate from he one sealed inside Naruto. Should we treat it as such and create a separate article for it? --M4ND0N (talk) 06:24, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nah. Same person, not enough separation to fill an article. Also, I suspect a merge soon. Best to think of this as being similar to Mu's splitting tech. Should change Minato from pseudo to full, though. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 06:30, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

I already took care of that. At the very least this Kurama has consciousness and therefore Minato's no less of a Jinchuriki to Kurama than Naruto is, so I went ahead noted it in the article. --M4ND0N (talk) 06:35, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

I would like people's opinion on this. I believe the "yin Kurama" was in fact already shown in Road to Ninja as "black nine-tails" I believe them to be the same. In the AU, Minato or Sakura's dad or whoever simply sealed Kurama's Yin into Naruto, not the Yang like in "real world" hence "black nine-tails" and as such, I believe we should have a separate article, since we do for Menma as an example--Elveonora (talk) 11:01, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * That is a lot of speculation, even for you, Elve. "Black Nine-Tails" was just a genjutsu variation of Kurama dreamed up by Obito. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's not dabble into the realms of the clinically insane here. As for the Yin-half of Kurama, I think this is going to be another Zetsu deal. They're two sides of the same coin, the same person/creature, that were split by a jutsu and can be just as easily restored. Being Kurama's Yin half doesn't make it any less Kurama than the half inside of Naruto. And, in any case, he was shown in one panel. We known nothing about him; zippo. Given the subtitles at the end of the chapter, we'll be given a formal introduction to him next week, so I suggest we all take a big deep breath, then let it out, and.... wait. It won't kill you. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 11:11, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Edit: In addition, we don't have a separate article for Dark Naruto, despite the fact that he had a "mind of his own", if you will, and used techniques of his own. We also don't create new articles for the different halves of the original Zetsu, and they have two completely separate personalities. This is probably going to be handled similarly. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 11:13, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Except "Dark Naruto" was only in Naruto's mind, not someone real--Elveonora (talk) 11:34, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. Dark Naruto was simply another part of Naruto's cognition. The same is the case here. Yin and Yang halves are both Kurama. They're not different people, creatures, nothing. They are one and the same. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 11:37, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, doesn't it strike you all as weird that we're trying to make Minato a full jinchuuriki when these powers were given to him as he was reincarnated? We don't know if the "Yin-Kurama" can be a tangible entity, or just the influence of Kurama's yin-chakra. Jinchuuriki's don't get reincarnated with a the tailed beast guys, especially not in canon. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 12:40, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Who said they don't? You forgot that Tobi's revived jinchuuriki died as a result of the process which resulted in removal of their tailed beasts, hence they died as non-jinchuuriki, that's why they were revived as such.
 * @Fox, It's not the same case, Minato has a fox with separate chakra and consciousness in him. Dark Naruto was simply a mental manifestation of his hatred and bad traits, it never existed outside of the waterfall meditation trance shit thingy--Elveonora (talk) 12:53, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Its not a separate chakra. Its Kurama's chakra, just the other half of it. Its not a separate consciousness, because its, again, just the other half of Kurama's consciousness. It is simply the mass of whatever chakra Minato pulled out of Kurama 16 years ago. Even if, next week, it turns out that it is, in some ungodly way, different than Kurama, then it'll get mentioned in this page, just like we do with Zetsu. The point is, at the end of the day, regardless of all the other mumbo jumbo, they're both the same creature. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 12:57, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

If it's not sealed inside Naruto and it can think and talk and express viewpoints and opinions to the host it's sealed within [Minato] then it has consciousness. It's hard not to consider the Kurama inside Minato every bit as much Kurama as the one inside Naruto. As you said, they're two sides of the same coin, but they're separate right now and each half has it's own consciousness. So to call Minato a pseudo-Jinchuriki at this point is wrong in my opinion. Also, it's not completely unheard of for the separated chakra of a tailed beast to manifest as it's own TB. The Juubi's a perfect example of this, and I don't think it stops there. Kurama had half it's chakra taken away. So if the Ten Tails can have all it's chakra split and have each one manifest as a Tailed Beast, I don't see how it's inconceivable that the same happened to Kurama. Nonetheless, waiting till we get a proper explanation won't hurt. M4ND0N (talk) 15:56, August 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * We're not playing this game every time something like this happens. Its the same situation as Zetsu, either way you slice it. They stay on the same article because, like it or lump it, they're one in the same person. That's all that anyone who will ever see this wiki will ever care about. The fact that these guys want to make an entire new article, about a character that they only have a silhouette and one sentence from, and they claim to know all this information about what it is and how it was formed, is insanity's purest definition. All we would be able to offer is speculation. We don't know what that is, and Minato looks pretty shocked himself. It talks and it looks the Nine-Tails, but we don't know if its just that the Nine-Tails can speak to Minato through its Yin-half, if its Yin-half obtained mind of its own (whew, Kishi must be smoking some good pot for this stuff), or if its something new entirely. So, like I said at the beginning of this thread, we all need to show patience, and wait. A week won't kill anyone. I'm positive it'll be touched on next chapter. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:58, August 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Edit: Slight note, but this is becoming a major pet peeve of mine. The Ten-Tails isn't a tailed beast. At all. No way in hell. Its an actual, physical, living, breathing animal, with a **** ton of chakra. Its chakra are the tailed beasts. There is a huge difference. And I don't remember reading anywhere that tailed beasts' chakra can break away and start forming tailed beast twins all over the place. If Minato is a jinchūriki, then Sora and the Gold and Silver Brothers are jinchūriki too, because all he got was chakra, which is all they got. Its ludicrous the logic that is being put behind this debate. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:03, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Straight from the info box [---> Classification: Tailed Beast.] But that's not what we're talking about so I don't wanna have a debate discussing the Ten Tails being a TB or not, because it's irrelevant to this debate. You're right, it's speculation and it can wait till next week, I was simply asking what people thought of the idea in case it was something the majority of people would like to do or not. I'm completely neutral in this so don't think I'm trying to enforce either side of the debate. With that being said, your logic is flawed since as you said, there's no information indicating that a Tailed Beast can split it's chakra and that chakra becomes separate Tailed Beasts, but there's also no information indicating that this ISN'T the case either. Sora's a filler character so I don't know why you're bringing him up, and we've never been shown the inside of Ginkaku and Ginkaku's minds or subconscious to see if this is true or not either.

Anyway, I wrote this topic last night when the mangapanda translation was the only version I could read. Having re-read the chapter on mangastream it's possible that Kurama is talking to Minato through it's Yin half, but that's just as much speculation as Kurama's Yin half being a separate entity. We'll find out in the coming chapters so I agree that we should wait. --M4ND0N (talk) 00:03, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Did not read all of the above, so my short opinion on the matter. I do not believe that we should have a split article for Yin Kurama. Yin Kurama is half of Kurama, but it's still Kurama, or do we intend to have an article on Kurama as a whole, on Yang Kurama, and Yin Kurama? Seems highly convoluted and unmanageable. We didn't split the main Zetsu character in two articles, even when they split and became independent of one another. However, I do think that we should start considering Minato a jinchuriki. The Yin Kurama appears to have its own volition and awareness, and if I had to guess, similar to Yang Kurama, it is probably responsible for its own sustenance/existence. Sora had chakra he couldn't control and it simply burned out. Besides, he's not canon. Kingin, on the other hand, while they appeared to be able to keep generating the chakra over time, I don't recall there being any trace or indication of an incarnation of will or mind of the Nine-Tails inside them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:09, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, so when I brought this up, everyone opposed the change/removal of Ten-Tails' classification as a "tailed beast" yet now suddenly, months later, you Fox say it isn't. Where have you been when it was relevant? Anyway, chakra alone doesn't make a tailed beast. They have physical bodies, souls and minds. If they were just chakra, then each shinobi alliance would now have a fox talking to them and trying to take over. And define what differentiates a jinchuuriki from a pseudo-jinchuuriki? OH THAT'S RIGHT, the former have an actual beast in them... "looks at Minato, sees a fox" so he indeed isn't a pseudo at this point--Elveonora (talk) 11:07, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

It's obvious that the distinction between Jinchuuriki and pseudo is determined by how much of the chakra is sealed within the host in question. For example, because the tailed beasts ARE constructs of pure chakra, with flesh and consciousness supposedly formed from such high concentrations of it and half of Kurama's chakra was divided between Minato and Naruto, if one is considered a jinchuuriki so must the other.

Because a tailed beast's were crafted from pure chakra, that is where their consciousness lies. The question at hand however, is how much chakra has to be present in one location before their mind manifests AND is that mind separate from the consciousness in other locations.

If the half of Kurama's chakra inside Naruto has a consciousness, is it so hard to believe that the half in Minato does as well.

While I do not believe Yin Kurama deserves another article, I do believe he deserves to have his own section in this article acknowledging him as a separate entity and expanded upon as soon as more information is available.

That is my two cents on this subject. --Azekual (talk) 16:58, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

If the fox in Minato can produce/regenerate more chakra, that would make him a full jinchuuriki--Elveonora (talk) 17:16, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

Why shouldn't the fox in Minato be able to. Granted, we don't know for SURE if he can, but it stands to reason that if the Yang half in Naruto is capable of such, so is the Yin inside Minato. --Azekual (talk) 17:23, August 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Elve, this time there's no winning it, unless Kishi retconed Kurama's sealing, Minato isn't a jinchūriki anymore than I am at this point. I (and you) watched him seal it. He only sealed the chakra because Kurama was still there after he sealed the Yin chakra inside of him. Go back and watch it again if you have to. There isn't a way on Heaven, Hell, Earth, or Purgatory he's a jinchūriki. Its not plausible. Its not sensible. And its certainly not a fact. I refuse to accept one panel and a silhouette as proof of anything. Next week, if it turns out I'm wrong, well then Kishi is smoking some serious pot, because we WATCHED Minato seal the chakra, not the beast. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:05, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I smell bias and ignorance. I get you, it makes no sense to you, but in case you are wrong, you will simply have to get over it. His manga, his rules. It's not that far-fetched tho, doesn't Muu's technique do the exact same thing? (capable of splitting a dude both mentally and physically, likely soul too as well 0_0) So the concept isn't foreign.--Elveonora (talk) 18:58, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Aren't tailed beasts called "chakra monsters"? Technically, they're made of chakra, it simply takes physical form. Regardless of the semantics, there's one key piece of information left for us to properly say anything without speculating: why Minato split the Yin and Yang. When Jiraiya revealed that, he said Minato went through the trouble of splitting Yin and Yang. We don't know why that is important, it could be trivial, or it could be the most important thing about this whole issue. Kingin were tinged with undivided chakra, both Yin and Yang, so it's possible for chakra to be separated without dealing with Yin and Yang, so that obviously still has importance. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:09, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * Either way, this whole thread has been pointless conjecture. We'll have our answer next week. I stated it in an earlier post, nobody here knows the significance of that shadow (save, apparently, Elve), what it means, how it got there, or even what it is, other than it talks. We've seriously, from one panel at the end of the last chapter, gone from "Oh hey, that's a thing." to "OMG Minato's a jinchūriki, and Kyūbi has a twin yin-half that is completely different in mind, body, and soul, and it's the Kyūbi from the Naruto movie (look up a bit, someone actually suggested that), and now, apparently, splitting tailed beasts chakra up creates new beasts, desu!" Its amusing, if not completely irritating. All I've been trying to stress is that next week, we'll know. I doubt Kishi foreshadowed that just to ignore it later. There's no point in jumping to all these conclusions. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:23, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * We might know next week. Jump is on break next week, so we either get the chapter way early, or we wait two weeks. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:33, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

That my good sir, is where you're wrong. There is a very good reason for this conjecture. For one, it is an exchange of ideas that helps predict what's coming and understand what as happened. But even more important than that, it's just plain fun. --Azekual (talk) 20:40, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought predictions(and 'just plain fun') are what Forums are for, not Talk Pages. Blackchaos27 (talk) 20:53, August 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * ^This. Talk pages are to be used to discuss how to improve the article, how to list the available information. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

As long as it relates closely with the topic of the page and overall attempts to contribute to the body of knowledge regarding the topic, there is no harm in it.--Azekual (talk) 21:02, August 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Considering you have nothing more than a shadow as evidence, 99% of what's here is speculation and conjecture and, policy wise, as well as sanity wise, it doesn't belong on a talk page. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 02:21, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

So setting my projections to an event that will have more light shed on it in the near future when nobody else has any meaningful information on the subject either is wrong, eh?--Azekual (talk) 02:34, August 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * From the talk page policy;
 * "The Narutopedia is not a discussion forum, talkpages and forum pages should not be used for any discussion not related to improvement to the wiki itself."
 * So yes. Anything that is outside the realm of fact, as far as the manga is concerned, eg., pointless conjecture, and personal speculation is wrong and not allowed on our talk pages. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 02:49, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

We're not having a discussion about the story, we're discussing whether or not what we've seen warrants listing Minato as a Jinchuriki. You flat out said there's no way Minato's a Jinchuriki and if he is he'd be smoking serious pot and attacking people for disagreeing with you.. I don't think comments like that relate to improving the page either. With that being said, I'm neutral in this but you're speculating just as much as they are by saying that the Black Kurama isn't conscious and that it's just the fox's chakra, etc. If you come up with conclusions like that based off previous assumptions of what's possible or what isn't possible in the series then you clearly haven't learned from the Tobi's Identity fiasco that Kishi can do things with the story that don't initially make sense, or that you wouldn't necessarily agree with and end up explaining it and subsequently making it work. Assuming that this Kurama isn't it's own separate entity is speculation that could and might be disproven next week, so your rants against Elv and those other guys is just as much of a blatant misuse of the talk page as what you're claiming everyone else is doing. Let's just drop the discussion and speculation and wait till next week, because neither opinion is right with what little info we know. --M4ND0N (talk) 18:24, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think no, we don't need to separate the articles. It's the same beast and it's done nothing enough to warrant an article. By definition, Minato is a jinchuriki either way unless Naruto is a pseudo one. Waiting until the next 2 weeks (Jump's on break this week) for more info won't kill us though.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:32, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a really good point that was brought up some time back. If Minato is a pseudo-jinchuuriki, so then is Naruto. If Naruto is a full jinchuuriki, then so is Minato. They both have two halves of the same thing in them, so either can't be something else than the other. Oh, and good post M4ND0N ^_--Elveonora (talk) 18:52, August 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow I've never really thought about that so I guess you could say naruto's pseudo, lets see what more the the manga tells us -- ROOT 根 19:31, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

You are right TTF, so ridiculous, black nine tails = yin kurama... I must be crazy, how could I come up with such a nonsense? "reads latest chapter" oh well, said who? ;D--Elveonora (talk) 12:24, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Elve, the way you act sometimes is downright asinine. If you really expect the wiki to jump to conclusions based on a shadow, you're living on another planet. Now that these new chapters are out, I can honestly say, yes, there is a Yin Kurama. However, seeing as though they finish each other's sentences, and the fact that "Yin Kurama" called "Yang Kurama" itself ("Asking myself for help... this is getting weird."), I don't really think you have a point to begin with. They're still the same person. So, once again, this discussion is meaningless. They won't be getting different articles. Just like Black and White Zetsu didn't. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 08:20, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Black Nine Tails = Yin Half?
Is it worth noting in trivia that the Black Nine Tails from RTN looks exactly like the Yin Half of Kurama? --M4ND0N (talk) 07:37, August 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope. Not worth a trivia note at all. In the end, it's the same Nine-Tails as we've always known, just with slightly darker fur.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 07:48, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

That's not what I mean. Judging by the similarities it's possible that Kishimoto had this planned and in the Alternate Universe Naruto [Menma] had the Yin half of Kurama's chakra sealed inside him instead of the Yang half. Either way speculating on a movie when there won't be any continuation of it is pointless, I just thought it was noteworthy how similar Yin Kurama and BNT looked. --M4ND0N (talk) 08:17, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I was getting at above, but you know, ignorant people stay ignorant. There's no reason for Kurama in AU being black and Yin Kurama being black as well other than them being the same. That's not even far-fetched, but highly likely. Minato or rather Kizashi simply alternatively sealed the Yang part into himself and Yin into Naruto, I mean Menma.--Elveonora (talk) 12:56, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bump--Elveonora (talk) 12:17, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's at least worth noting that Yin Kurama is darker coloured than the one we normally get, though I've been working off the theory that the RTN Kurama was the Yin Chakra from the start, given the difference in abilities of their users. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 20:12, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Its been noted in the appearance section. @Elve: I don't think drawing needless conclusions to movie characters is wise nor prudent. Especially on nothing more than a bunch of guesses. Yin Kurama is darker, Black Kurama is darker. So what? That immediately means you get to draw conclusions on what half of Kurama was sealed within Menma/Naruto in the movie, or even if the Sakura's father used Dead Demon Consuming Seal in the first place to split the chakras? A whole bunch of pointless conjecture. What is listed on the page is what we know. The movie Kurama was called "Black Nine-Tails", and aside from being just that, we don't know the circumstance behind it. As well the mention that Kurama has a yin and a yang half, along with their color variations are mentioned in the article. That is plenty good enough, and doesn't dip into the realm of fantastical fan speculation. For all any of us know, Kishi colored the movie Kurama black because he was just having that kind of day. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:51, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * ok :-( --Elveonora (talk) 21:14, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * ~gives Elve consolatory pat on back~ It happens to all of us. Raidra (talk) 19:00, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Two separate entities, confirmed.
I guess I was right. Should we change the article accordingly and list both Yin and Yang Kurama as separate tailed beasts? --M4ND0N (talk) 08:10, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. Just like Black and White Zetsu, who are two different minds, personalities, and can even move on their own, they're still both Kurama, so they share an article. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 08:12, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

I never said we should split the article. I said we should list the fact that they're two separate entities, because they are. There's no sense arguing about it now, it's a manga-confirmed fact that we're all gonna have to deal with. The logic is simple. Both Kuramas had conversations with each other, Yin Kurama has no prior knowledge of Naruto's past, therefore they're separate beings. --M4ND0N (talk) 08:15, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Its already mentioned in the article, and on all relevant articles that they are separate halves, who can talk to each other (quotes from both are even listed), and the differences between them. I don't know what more you want. I don't know why we'd mention that Yin Kurama has no knowledge of Naruto's past, because, frankly that isn't relevant. But all other differences are already on the page, and were listed last chapter. His article, frankly, is in the same state Zetsu's in in right now. No one is arguing anything with you, and frankly, its been manga-established fact for awhile now, but, aside from adding in the new info from the chapter, nothing else needs to happen. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 08:19, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * They are not two separate anythings. They are the same beast, Kurama Yin even said so in the chapter. It's the same beast with it's chakra split into two, nothing more.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 08:29, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

If they were the same overall entity then Yin Kurama would remember all the stuff that happened with Naruto and him. I thought so too since mangapanda's translation made it appear like they were finishing their sentences, but after the recent chapter they're separate to some degree. They may not be different beasts, although I'm not throwing that possibility out either, but they're different 'something'. At the very least, both have their own consciousness so that makes them separate. In any case, TenTails is right, the article does closely match Zetsu's and it doesn't need any big changes. It's worth considering adding an image tab for each half in the infobox though. --M4ND0N (talk) 08:34, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * There is no reason to add a tab for each version of Kurama (Yin and Yang), as they are the same beast, just that the hosts contain a different chakra. --Speysider Talk Page 08:42, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

I guess so. The infobox image still only depicts Yang Kurama though, and whether or not they're just chakra halves, separate entities, etc, both of them are equally Kurama, and both share different color schemes so it might be relevant eventually, but until there's a color spread or something it wouldn't really work, given the fact that the current image is in color. --M4ND0N (talk) 08:56, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

"No prior knowledge of Naruto" ? Are you serious? Before the two Kuramas bumped fists, Minatos half was telling him of how Naruto had matured and had cleaned up Minatos "mess". Not exact wording, but to the same effect. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:54, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's kinda conflicting. In some instances he appears to know in others he doesn't. Another one would be the knowledge that Naruto turns 17 tomorrow which there's no way he could know, unless there's a calendar pasted on the wall in dat cage, he has counted every single day since the split or Minato told him ._. --Elveonora (talk) 12:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

He knew of Narutos birthday, because they were discussing it out loud and he would of heard them. He is sealed, not deaf. And that's if he didn't know when it was. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 14:34, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yin Kurama mentioned it being Naruto's birthday tomorrow before the dialogue from them took place. But anyway, that's irrelevant. For the actual topic, Yin Kurama was surprised that Naruto threats it as a comrade, that suggests no knowledge of what has happened in 17 years.--Elveonora (talk) 15:01, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Still don't see what that has to do with anything. All the differences are mentioned, they're both Kurama, case closed. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 15:29, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't prove that they share a consciousness Susanoo. Yin/Yang Kurama were one whole entity when Naruto was born, so of course he'd know when he was born. I agree with Elve that it's contradictory in a lot of quotes though. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:15, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

I never said they did share a conscious, M4ND0N. And that exactly my point, they were one whole entity when Naruto was born, thus he would know. And even if he didn't know, they were discussing it out loud so he would have known that way.

But, I'm opposed to the separation of articles as I still count them as one being, just split in half. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 07:29, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

New infobox image
Can we change a new image of Kurama in Part 2 in the infobox ? Why we must use infobox image in Part 1 only lke naruto, sasuke etc--Zi Hao Lau (talk) 13:51, August 29, 2013 (UTC)Zi Hao Lau
 * Because the fox literally looks exactly the same in Part I and II. Naruto aged, the Fox looks exactly the same.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:54, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
 * I beg to disagree. Kurama has gained more mature features. Like an aged wine, you have to be fox snob like myself to notice these... these... subtleties in the way he's drawn, shaded, the contours of his... ...whiskers. All different.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:58, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with him, the colour of Kurama was more red orange in Part 2 than in Part 1--Zi Hao Lau (talk) 14:50, August 29, 2013 (UTC)Zi Hao Lau And Kurama image in part 2 was clearer resolution than in part 1--Zi Hao Lau (talk) 14:55, August 29, 2013 (UTC)Zi Hao Lau
 * I want to say...he was being sarcastic but you never actually know with Cerez, I did read your comment wrong and thought it read you wanted to have a Part I and Part II image of the Nine-Tails. In that case, I'm impartial so long as it's a good picture and not one of those weird promo things.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:57, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Don't we always keep pictures of characters as they appeared in their debut? Hence why we don't have Part 2 images for all the other characters, all of whom actually have significant cosmetic changes, which Kurama does not. Honestly I never would've noticed these subtle changes, and it may just be the artstyle changing. If it's that hard to notice then my vote is probably no, we should keep it as is. EDIT -- Part 2 tabs are a good idea though, if that's what you're suggesting Zi.. just not for Kurama. --M4ND0N (talk) 06:36, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Not true tho, current Kurama is much smaller ;D--Elveonora (talk) 09:49, August 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Its annoying but technically quite of few characters have images from Part II so long as the image matches their Part II equivalents, such as Tenten or any Kage pre-Fifth. So a Part II image of the Nine-Tails wouldn't be bad so long as its as I've said, a good image and not one of those crappy promo stills like the one with the pink clouds I saw floating around a year ago. Also, ha ha Elv.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:23, August 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * The only reason I'm agreeing with the OP to change the image is because the current one is very distant, there are better "close ups" that could be used to depict Kurama. --Speysider Talk Page 18:54, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

The same can be said for all the Tailed Beast infobox images. --Mandon (talk) 19:13, August 30, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh indeed, but I somehow doubt we're going to find a better picture of them, considering their situation.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 19:47, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

We could for Gyuki and Shukaku, but that's about it. I never saw the Three Tails filler arc but I'm assuming it makes an appearance there too. In any case there's plenty we could use for Kurama. --Mandon (talk) 21:54, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Revival
In response to what's currently happening to the tailed beast infobox images, how about changing the old Kurama image to this one? KazeKitsune (talk) 20:29, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * He doesn't seem very "sharp" in terms of quality and it's a little low resolution considering the episode it was shown in. --SuperSajuuk Talk Page 20:33, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * ^ what he said. Plus I personally don't like it in the stance he got, out of those two I would still choose the current one. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 20:38, July 31, 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks too docile and has human-like expression in that one. I prefer "angry demon fox Kurama" over "good ol' uncle Kurama"--Elveonora (talk) 20:45, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

What about something like this? It's taken from the same sequence in episode 330 that the other TB images are from. The only difference being that it's actually a combination of two different frames to remove Naruto from the image. I'm not sure if that would push it too far into unofficial territory though.--Soul reaper (talk) 11:22, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought we already use modified images, unless we did but it got banned or something. In case it's still allowed, then go on, but it's of poor resolution.--Elveonora (talk) 12:51, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * I tried finding a clearer image but no success.--Soul reaper (talk) 12:58, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, I found I much clearer version. I've uploaded it so give it a look. I'll put it in the infobox if there are no objections.--Soul reaper (talk) 13:28, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's fine by me. Now it look a bit more like the other pages --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 13:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * That one seems fine.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:34, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 671
I read that Yang-Kurama appeared along with its Yin half and the other tailed beasts at the Sage and Naruto's meeting place. But I actually don't see Yang-Kurama anywhere...--JOA20 (talk) 13:12, April 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Unless my eyes deceive me, that was only Yang-Kurama. Yin Kurama is still inside Madara. Yang-Kurama just looked lighter because it was pulling itself out of Naruto-mind-ooze--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:45, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * You meant that was only Yin Kurama and Yang is inside of Madara.--Elveonora (talk) 13:47, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * If i am not wrong, Naruto was triyng to say that Kurama's Yin and Yang are already together in one. And a part of their chakra is inside Naruto. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:00, April 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * That is correct Elvenora. But yes, for all purpose, Yin-Kurama now has Yang-Kurama chakra in it, while the full Yang-Kurama is still inside Madara's bowels.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:08, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

The point is, people assume that Yang-Kurama appeared, but all I understood was that Yin-Kurama appeared, I don't see Yang-Kurama anywhere...--JOA20 (talk) 15:11, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

In the Mangastream version, Naruto excitedly asks "Ah! The other half of Kurama is here, too!?". The two panels are also looking from different directions, as well as both being of different colours. I don't see how anyone failed to "see" it when two panels were showed of two different Kurama. --Taynio (talk) 16:19, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

why isn't
Kurama listed as a sensor? Naruto can not only sense negative emotions but also actual chakra while using Kurama's. Not to mention: "With that vision of yours and chakra more ominous than my own… You're the spitting image of Madara Uchiha from the elder days…" etc.--Elveonora (talk) 14:24, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Because "sensor types" are a classification of ninja. Unless I'm missing something, Kurama is not a ninja. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg 21:38, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Neither are Black Zetsu and Kaguya if you want to get technical, yet they are listed--Elveonora (talk) 22:37, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * Black Zetsu (amusingly) is. He was a member of Akatsuki, which was an organization comprised of well, ninja. I would actually argue is "sensor type" even a classification, but we are very cowboy with classifications as is and I don't feel like having that discussion.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:52, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

If a ninja is one who uses ninjutsu, why wouldn't Kaguya be a ninja? It wouldn't be her occupation, sure, but one doesn't have to, say, earn a living from martial arts to be classified as a martial artist. Skitts (talk) 23:32, July 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * So Samurai are ninja 'cause they usin' ninjutsu--Elveonora (talk) 17:17, July 19, 2014 (UTC)

Wind Element in the manga?
The latest chapter showed Naruto calling upon the bijū to supply their chakra for various variations of the RasenShuriken. The one aligning with Kurama would suggest his natural element is wind. I believe the "(anime only)" tag can be removed. Anyone opposed?--Reliops (talk) 20:21, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not me. Kurama gave Naruto wind chakra when he used TBB Rasenshuriken. And can't Kurama create tornadoes by whipping its tails? WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 20:29, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Me nether. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 20:31, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The 9th one had no changes, despite having Kurama's chakra.--Omojuze (talk) 20:32, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indifferent. It probably won't last though.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:38, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Na. I mean, Naruto adds the Wind chakra himself to the other Rasen Shuriken, but needs Kurama's help for the last one? Doesn't make sense to me. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:50, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe Kurama has a stronger Wind Chakra? Don't know. Just think it would be odd if Kurama was the only one not to do something. --Kasan94 Nara Symbol.svg Talkpage 20:55, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
 * Both Gaara and Shukaku also have Wind Release. Wouldn't be the first time. I too am indifferent. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Rinnegan Sasuke.svg 20:56, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * OK then, looks we're either unopposed or indifferent, so I'm removing it.--Reliops (talk) 21:00, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Kurama has always been replenishing Naruto's chakra. This may sound stupid, but since Naruto has at least half of Kurama (or the full fox, it's been colored like the original twice, but don't get me started on that) and fragments of the other tailed beast chakra, is it possible Kurama just contributed chakra to Naruto? Like how Kurama did when Madara first showed up? WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 21:01, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * Or not since I can't edit the page. Would anyone else be so kind?--Reliops (talk) 21:01, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

I doubt that considering all the other bijū were giving contributing their own chakra to the jutsu. If Kurama was doing something different, Kishi would have illustrated it that way.--Reliops (talk) 22:04, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * As Seelentau said, why would Naruto need its help for a chakra nature he already has?
 * As WindStar suggested, maybe it's offering the chakra needed to perform nine Rasenshuriken? That's always been its thing, and when Naruto needed extra chakra to make shadow clones in 684, he had Kurama's help, not any of the other beasts'.
 * As I suggested, maybe Kurama's contribution is making it red, which would not be apparent in a black and white image.
 * In short: need proof, not supposition. ~SnapperTo 22:50, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's hardly supposition when the manga itself paints a clear picture. Naruto asks all nine bijū to contribute to the all nine Rasengan variants. That includes Kurama. The one aligning with Kurama happens to be a regular wind variant. That's makes it pretty obvious Kurama has wind release.--Reliops (talk) 23:35, August 7, 2014 (UTC)


 * The manga has not painted a clear picture about anything for the last few months. This is no exception.
 * Bottom line is, when something is disputed, proof needs to be provided. If no proof can be found, it does not belong on the wiki. ~SnapperTo 23:51, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

What more "proof" do you need? This has happened twice now. Previously Naruto called to Kurama, Kurama responded and Naruto threw his expanded Truth Seeking Ball as Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (Wind Release) now Kurama responded again and Naruto threw standard Wind Rasenshuriken again, it's clearly obvious. And I hope you aren't half serious about the red thing, because Matatabi made it blue and that wasn't the reason Naruto called after it, but to get Fire there--Elveonora (talk) 13:55, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

I'm seriously wonder why every little thing has to be a be fucking battle. If Naruto didn't use Kurama for the wind element Rasengen, then why would Kurama bother replying in the exact same context as the other 8 bijū? Why would Kishimoto bother including Kurama if his aim was to show the variants of each bijū? Magnetism, fire, water, lava, steam, whatever it was Saiken did, scales, ink - it's Kurama's that's a regular wind element, but for some reason it's "supposition" to come to the conclusion Kurama has a wind element, even though he was accredited with the nature type as anime only? Come the fuck on.--Reliops (talk) 15:53, August 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * Now you're getting the futility of editing here. Everything is a battle. Everything.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 16:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well, there wouldn't have to be, but Snapper asks for evidence, despite there being evidence in the manga twice. Chapter 676 page 12 and now 688 page 8. Twice now has Naruto called to Kurama and twice it resulted in Wind Release, so there it is--Elveonora (talk) 16:10, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

The evidence is there. Now we just need someone with the ability to edit the info box to make a decision.--Reliops (talk) 18:22, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Both I and Ulti edited it but Snapper reverted it--Elveonora (talk) 19:02, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Seriously?--Reliops (talk) 20:11, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

I need to butt in: Naruto called out to Kurama twice to create a normal Rasen Shuriken, right? What about the times he did not call out to Kurama and still created a normal Rasen Shuriken? As I said above, Naruto doesn't need Kurama to add Wind Release to the Rasengan, he never did. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:18, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Maybe Kurama did change the Rasenshuriken's color, I mean there is a "Nine-Tailed Fox Rasengan," why not a "Nine-Tailed Fox Rasenshuriken?" That further supports my arguement that Kurama contributed its chakra. And Naruto can now use the Tailed Beast Rasengan, used it as a catalyst for the Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken (alongside the TSBs), and he probably called on Kurama to contribute its chakra. In the colored issue of 676, the shuriken blades were colored orange. @Tau, you agree with @Snapper2 and I that Kurama probably just contributed its chakra and changed the color of the blades, right? WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 20:27, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * Naruto has access to Kurama's chakra and is in Tailed Beast Mode, their chakras are conjoined, he doesn't need to ask for its reserves. So whatever Kurama did Naruto wanted it to do. Just because Naruto has Wind doesn't mean Kurama doesn't. Like wouldn't it be strange to leave Kurama out just because he can do it?--Elveonora (talk) 20:30, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elveo, I'm not saying that Kurama doesn't have Wind-natured chakra. I'm just uncertain that it contributed it to Naruto, who already has it, with it being his affinity and all. I think the anime only tag should be taken off, but for different reasons. Like @Snapper2, I'm sure it gave Naruto its chakra, which would change the color of the shuriken blades and enhance their power, otherwise Naruto wouldn't need to call on Kurama. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 20:35, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * The techniques he uses in chakra mode already use Kurama's chakra, he can turn it red himself if he wants--Elveonora (talk) 20:36, August 8, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Kurama used its chakra to enhance the wind-natured shuriken blades, thus changing its color. And if Naruto can "turn it red" or enhance the chakra himself, why call on Kurama? All I'm saying is that Kurama contributed its chakra, which enhanced the wind and changed its color. Naruto probably used a "Nine-Tailed Fox Rasenshuriken." I'm not saying Kurama doesn't have wind itself, @Elveo. WindStar7125  WindStar7125 Task.svg (Talk) (Contributions) 20:42, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Again, Naruto has free access to Kurama's chakra, he can turn it red himself. That's no more of a reason to call after it than Wind that he already has, but the latter makes more sense than "color change"--Elveonora (talk) 20:43, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

@Elveo, I am not disagreeing with you. Kurama enhanced the wind-natured chakra, that's why it has wind itself. WindStar7125  (Talk) (Contributions) 20:46, August 8, 2014 (UTC)

Right, so can we edit the page now?--Reliops (talk) 15:04, August 9, 2014 (UTC)

Can summon edit this? It's been a week.--Reliops (talk) 22:03, August 16, 2014 (UTC)