Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-25498052-20141004162612/@comment-24649454-20141105213524

TricksterKing wrote: he can absorb chakra and he can attack, just because he hasn't learned how to do both at the same time doesn't matter. It was nothing to do with him not knowing how to do both at the same time, it was that he physically couldn't due to him having a brand new rinnegan, nothing to do with his control over it. Do you get the difference?

TrueAlphaJ wrote: Did sasuke come into the world with his sharingan activated/unlocked or did he have to go through different ordeals for him to awake the three tomoe sharingan... You don't seem to grasp the concept of base forms, like I said earlier, Sasuke has a 4 in genjutsu according to the 3rd databook, the databooks are written using a tier system and are based on a character's base form. As such, Sasuke before he awakened EMS had a 4th tier level genjutsu rating. This is only possible (given his shown feats) if he is permitted the usage of his Sharingan meaning that Sasuke's Sharingan (and possibly even EMS now but improbably) is/are considered to be part of his base form. You don't get to decide what Sasuke's base form is constituted of, Kishimoto does and I don't think you can argue with what the manga-ka says.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...when was the last time sasuke or naruto has been seen fighting in base forms... Again like I've already said, they fought each other just after Sasuke killed Danzo 11 times thanks to Izanagi, not to mention fighting Kakashi, 3 Kage and killing hundreds if not thousands of Samurai, with little to no rest in between. As a result he was extremely fatigued and deactivated his Sharingan for his clash with Naruto collectively resulting in Naruto being at a massive advantage in terms of handicaps yet their fight ended in a stalemate. Tbh, I'm not sure how you could forget that encounter, it was rather memorable.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...what is a samurai compared wo sasuke? fodder thats like saying killing white zetsu is impressive 1 Samurai isn't impressive no, but Sasuke didn't kill 1 Samurai, he killed hundreds if not thousands of them and he did so effortlessly. People never say that Madara's meteor jutsu isn't impressive even though all of the people he killed using it were fodder Shinobi. Remember that after the 1st day of the war, 40,000 Shinobi had died and 50,000 white Zetsu had died. Also even fodder can be impressive in large enough numbers as evidenced by the tug-of-war the Shinobi Alliance had with Obito concerning the Juubi's chakra. Basically your point lacks either thought, logic or both.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...ignore him spliting his chakra sending his clones to each battlefield ignore him sharing his chakra with 40 000 plus shinobi plus the edo kages... When did I say I was ignoring it? For starters, the Edo Kage have unlimited chakra so they didn't need any of Naruto's chakra and as such never got any. Second, there were nowhere near 40,000 Shinobi left alive for Naruto to share chakra with thanks mainly to Madara and his meteors, at most there were roughly 15-20,000 of them. Plus he used so much chakra doing that that on numerous occasions he had to have rests where he got healed or replenished his chakra via Kurama or used chakra the other Bijuu had given him or needed Minato to supply him with extra chakra via his half of Kurama. Not to mention he eventually took all that chakra back when he realised he needed it to fight Madara, plus he only lent chakra to everyone for a couple of hours max, probably a lot less actually, not long at all really. In retrospect he kinda bit off more than he could chew by sharing his chakra with all those people. Third, Naruto's Shadow clone Jutsu is one of his techniques he uses to fight people, you can hardly use it as a reason to why he's so fatigued as after he dissipates his shadow clones, any remaining chakra they had goes back to him, therefore the chakra used by the jutsu is equal to the chakra he'd have used if his real body were to have fought all those opponents. So your points aren't gaining you any ground there I'm afraid.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ok completely refreshed right im sure you would see it that way No need for the digs...Anyway, you can tell by looking at the way the character's are drawn alone. After receiving Hagoromo's powers they are both relatively free of fatigue marks (those small lines on their skin which are universal manga shorthand) They also stop having baggy eyes, (another shorthand method) and you can also tell from their actions and personalities that they are fully recovered. Not to mention that if they weren't they'd hardly be able to move to the fact that they were essentially on their deathbeds before getting power from Hagoromo, they'd be in Guy's state near enough.

As for your analysis of the fights against Kaguya and Madara, along with the final fight of Sasuke vs Naruto, they are clearly both extremely inaccurate and biased. A true analysis would be:

At the end of chapter 672: Naruto showed up, deflected Madara's TSB using his new powers and proceeded to save Guy by rekindling his chakra, he didn't restore his chakra that's what med-nin do.

Then in 673: Naruto fought Madara and due to Madara's injuries and getting help from Son Goku had the upper hand yet he was still able to do very little damage to Madara and couldn't stop him from absorbing the Shinjuu tree in order to get a power up and heal his own wounds.

In 674: Sasuke was able to see Madara's Limbo clone due to his Rinnegan and so helped Naruto sense them, Naruto was unable to defend against it however whereas Sasuke was able to use his superior intellect to figure out the workings of limbo and then as Madara attacked him he was able to counter with his Rinnegan, teleporting Madara onto his sword. Sasuke then showed he was able to combine his own techniques with his new powers to improve them as seem by his black Chidori, Naruto on the other hand needed the help of Shukaku to utilise his powers and form a jutsu capable of harming Madara. Sasuke then continued to show his leadership by coming up with strategies and giving orders to Naruto to follow. Sasuke then showed great speed and strength by being able to chase after Madara and cut him in half using his sword whilst Naruto stood still.

In 675: Naruto used a shadow clone to help him seal one of Madara's Limbo clones using Shukaku's jutsu to do so as he couldn't do it himself. He then proceeded to use his new powers to restore Kakashi's eye while showing he has no understanding at all of his new powers much unlike Sasuke. (It seemed evident however from what Naruto said that Naruto was using part of Kakashi's chakra and infusing it with his own and Kakashi's cells to stimulate stem cell growth and development leading to the formation of a new eye. Again totally different to Med-nin and not requiring Naruto's chakra to do all the work as is the case with Med-ninjutsu)

In 676: Madara came back and reattached his body seemingly instantly, Sakura then foolishly went to attack him, leaving Sasuke to save her by attacking Madara and putting him on the defence so he couldn't attack Sakura again after is initial attack, Naruto then caught Sakura to stop her getting hurt further. Madara then makes 4 Limbo clones which Naruto proceeds to fight using 4 shadow clones but he seemingly doesn't defeat any of them. The real Madara then proceeds to create numerous Chibaku Tensei which Naruto destroys some of using a Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken and Sasuke destroys even more with his new Susanoo form. Madara then activates Infinite Tsukuyomi.

In 677: Naruto and Sasuke continue to destroy the numerous Chibaku Tensei with Sasuke flying through the path of several Rasenshuriken in his Susanoo unaffected by them in order to save Team 7 from falling under the genjutsu of IT, once again showcasing his supreme intelligence with his quick thinking, realisation and strategy development, with Naruto apparently clueless.

Not much happens in 678 and 679 other than Sasuke continuing to show his intellect with even Kakashi being impressed by it and then Kaguya begins her revival.

In 680: Sasuke saves Naruto from the lava using his hawk summoning and therefore by extension saves Sakura Kakashi and Obito as Naruto ten saves them using chakra arms. Sasuke continues to take charge of the group like a true leader and ten proceeds to use part of his Susanoo to block an attack from Kaguya protecting everyone. Just as Sasuke is about to create a full Susanoo to help him fly after his hawk is taken out, Naruto realises he can fly and then proceeds to save everyone with chakra arms. Naruto then creates a shadow clone to look after Kakashi, Obito and Sakura and then attacks Kaguya head on, only to come out of the impact the worse of the 2 as he couldn't match Kaguya's power.

In 681: Sasuke intercepts Kaguya's attack with his Susanoo, shielding Naruto as he knows that if he dies they can't seal Kaguya. This however results in him receiving the brunt of the attack and his Susanoo dissipates, he then saves himself from the lava by teleporting to Naruto's position. Following this Kaguya uses Black Zetsu to try and absorb the pairs chakra, Naruto breaks free 1st and finally comes up with a idea of his own for a counter attack.

In 682: Naruto's shadow clone begins to revitalise Obito in a similar manner to how he saves Guy in the hopes that he can help them as he can't comprehend the current situation himself very well at the moment. Sasuke then lands a direct hit on Kaguya with Amaterasu and following this, Naruto has an opening to use his Harem Jutsu which is less effective than he'd hoped but still enough of a distraction for Naruto to slap her. Kaguya then freezes both of them in ice and Sasuke thaws them both out using Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi, saving them both again. Naruto apologises for his terrible plan and they revert back to heading Sasuke's instructions. To prevent this teamwork, Kaguya takes Sasuke to another dimension with Naruto not being fast enough to follow.

In 683: Naruto gets bombarded with attacks from Kaguya without Sasuke's help and Obito begins to formulate a plan based on his SOT6P knowledge.

In 684: Naruto trapped by Kaguya's attack tries to counter her when she comes near him by getting help from Kokuo in order to increase his chakra levels and his strength. He then breaks free of the ice and using more chakra just now given to him from Kurama he is able to use Mass Shadow clone Jutsu. Kaguya fends off these taijutsu attacks despite them being enhanced in strength via Kokuo's aid and then visits the dimension Sasuke is in. Naruto attempts to chase after her but is again too slow to reach her portal before it closes.

As seen in 685 however: The shadow clone with Obito is able to travel to the other dimension thanks to him using Kamui to transport himself, Naruto's clone and Sakura. They find Kaguya there however so Naruto's clone gets the others to hide while he faces Kaguya but he is taken out in 1 hit. Kaguya then goes back to the other dimension where all of Naruto's other clones and his real self are. Naruto's clones then engage with Kaguya as Obito searches for Sasuke with Sakura's aid. Obito eventually finds Sasuke and through a combination of Kamui and Sasuke's Rinnegan they join up. Meanwhile Naruto is having a tough time against Kaguya, unable to do anything against her onslaught as she continues to effortlessly destroy his clones in a search for the real Naruto.

In 686: Kakashi watches on helpless to do anything as Naruto steadily gets beaten more and more by Kaguya. Sasuke and the others return from the other dimension and upon seeing them Kaguya decides to get serious and send them all to a high gravity dimension. Obito and Kakashi then try to save Sasuke and Naruto by getting in the way of Kaguya's attack only for Obito to use Kamui to save Kakashi as well, dying himself as he wasn't able to Kamui away both attacks.

In 687: Naruto tries hopelessly to heal Obito to no avail while a level headed Sasuke begins a surprise attack on Kaguya initiated by his Rinnegan teleporting him. Kaguya takes them all back to the dessert dimension though in order to give herself enough maneuverability to avoid Sasuke's Chidori. Kaguya changes dimension again in order to best replenish her chakra while Sasuke proceeds to fight her head on using his Susanoo during which time Naruto is saying a final farewell to Obito allowing his emotions to rule him.

I 688: Naruto eventually joins the assault using Sasuke as a diversion as instructed, only for his attack to be mostly dodged, Kaguya losing an arm from the combination of attacks from Sasuke and Naruto while Kakashi receives temporary power from Obito including some remnants of his SOT6P chakra. Kaguya then assaults Sasuke's Susanoo with attacks only for him to hold firm and then counters with his Susanoo's sword, further injuring Kaguya but she is able to absorb chakra from his Susanoo in the process leading to it dismantling. Naruto and his clones with help from all the Bijuu then use Sasuke's attack as a diversion again like planned. Kaguya defends against the techniques of him and his clones however by absorbing their chakra allowing her to regrow her lost arm. Due to the Tailed Beast chakra in the attacks that resonates with her own Shinjuu however, Kaguya undergoes a transformation turning into an amalgamation of all the Bijuu. This version of Kaguya attacks the group with great ferocity with Sakura being saved at the last minute by Kakashi's Susanoo that he obtained through Obito's powers.

In 689 and 690: Kakashi uses amui in conjunction with his Susanoo to attack Kaguya, she eventually turns back to normal however, having replenished enough chakra and having enough gifted to her from Naruto's last attack to create a supermassive TSB in preparation for her final attack. akashi then proceeds to use Kamui to evade Kaguya's attacks and then stabs her with a SOT6P enhanced Raikiri setting up Sasuke ad Naruto to seal her, however Kaguya attempts to attack them 1st but Naruto and Sasuke use Naruto's shadow clones in conjunction with Sasuke's teleportation technique to confuse her. Kaguya switches her attack using her dimension hoping move on her own attack though in a similar way to Kamui, Kakashi counters this with a Kamui however. Then Sakura punches her from above to prevent her from escaping and Sasuke and Naruto manage to seal her, long with Black Zetsu for good measure, the Bijuu then all get set free and the fight is over.

Moving on to Naruto vs Sasuke then...

At the end of 692, Sasuke casts a genjutsu via his Rinnegan on all the Bijuu instantly and then again instantly Chikabu Tensei's them using each Tailed Beast as a gravitational core so that they can't escape showing that he has a much greater aptitude for the Rinnegan than Nagato has shown by a large margin even after only having it for such a short time and only in 1 eye. (@TricksterKing, another proof that Sasuke has the control over his Rinnegan to be able to absorb and use chakra simultaneously, he only can't do it due to his eye being new, if he had implanted Madara's eye he could have done it) (And don't say Nagato could have done that if he weren't fatigued from the invasion of Konoha as Sasuke is more fatigues from fighting 2 pseudo-Gods.)

Other than Sasuke casting genjutsu on Sakura nothing of note happens in 693 and 694 is all talk trying to constantly demonstrate a delicate harmony between the 2 characters as evidenced by their juxtaposition.

In 695: Sasuke clearly starts on the front foot with Naruto unable to do a thing initially as he attacks. Naruto uses some of his TSBs to defend himself resulting in their destruction and he then proceeds to use up the rest in a futile attack on Sasuke's Susanoo which is left unharmed. He then dons his Kurama transformation and the 2 giant chakra colossus beings collide. From this Sasuke can tell Naruto isn't going all out and tells him to step up his game or else he'll die.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: are you being serious right now didnt want to kill naruto sasuke himself said it about a million times that he intends to kill naruto... ^ This statement from Sasuke in 695 along with his words in 696: "What's wrong are you just gonna stay on the defensive? If you don't start to take the initiative you'll die...you'll never be able to kill me attacking at that level" shows 2 things: 1-that Sasuke wants to fight Naruto seriously in order for them to connect and be able to read eachother's hearts properly and that as such until Naruto goes all out he won't be doing so either, and 2-that Sasuke doesn't really want Naruto to die despite his other words to the contrary, he just wants Naruto to think that so he might go all out. This is further backed by Sasuke's actions throughout the entire fight as actions are much easier to lie with than words are. Believe it or not, characters in manga can give misinformation deliberately and can also use sarcasm etc. they aren't always literal or else they'd be boring and unrealistic. (and no by saying that I'm not nullifying my own statement as it is backed up by both actions, facial expressions and words, not just words)

In 696: Sasuke and Naruto then see each others hearts as they collide again, this time using giant variants of Chidori and Tailed Beast Rasengan through their chakra colossuses. Sasuke is unsatisfied however as it is evident that he can't see Naruto's heart clearly nor could Naruto see Sasuke's clearly or else they'd have no need to keep asking each other questions and Naruto would be sure one way or the other of to if Sasuke wanted to kill him and why. This lack of certainty is again due Naruto not going all out resulting in Sasuke using his Sharingan to power match him as he did for their collaboration jutsus during the fight against Obito. Sasuke then decides the only to make Naruto go all out is for himself to go all out so he absorbs chakra from the 9 Bijuu he has trapped and transforms his Susanoo to the next level. At this point Kurama himself tells Naruto he needs to go all out as Sasuke is now on the same level as Hagoromo. In response Naruto makes 3 Kurama clones agreeing through his actions that he needed to get serious but no sooner had he done that than Sasuke downed one of them in 1 hit. The other 2 clones and the original proceeded to attack Sasuke but his Susanoo blocked all their attacks before they even reached him, including 3 Bijuu dama they made using up all of Naruto's remaining chakra. Sasuke downing a clone ended up working NAruto's favor however as that clone went on to quickly amalgamate nature energy to give to Naruto through Kurama's thinking and Naruto ended up being supplied with "everything there is from above ground" from Kurama. As this was going on, Naruto fused himself with his 2 other clones to improve the strength and ware of his Kurama chakra colossus being. Sasuke mentions how pleased he is that Naruto is finally going all out and trying to kill him and then they both begin to charge their strongest attacks, with Naruto begging Sasuke for a proper fight as he too wants one now after seeing Sasuke's grit and determination amongst all the other things stated above.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: naruto was not going out at no point meaning in this fight at no point has naruto tried to kill sasuke everything he has done is to cancel out sasukes attack... ^ It is literally stated in chapter 696 several times that Naruto was going all out against Sasuke and even was going as far as to attack to kill, as I have just shown for you.

In 697 they both end up using almost all of their chakra in their most powerful attacks enhanced by Nature energy and Bijuu chakra for Naruto and more Bijuu chakra for Sasuke. Kurama then states if it weren't for that nature energy they'd be dead already with Sasuke egging Naruto on to continue fighting him seriously with words such as "God damnit, you're still alive" Sasuke gains the initiative once again and uses Amaterasu on Naruto before he can finish using his shadow clone jutsu that he was just about to perform, showcasing for the umpeenth time Sasuke's superior reflexes and speed in regard to Naruto. As soon as Amaterasu hits him though, Naruto enters a version 1 Jinchuuriki state through no conscious effort as the Bijuu have done it for him in order to protect him just as Sasuke predicted they would...

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...acting without narutos input to defend against amaterasu are you joking right now are you seriously making up shit right now sasuke himself said that the amateratsu wasnt even a distraction to naruto he then said he needed the bijuu For starters please don't swear at me, it's childish, rude, aggressive and offensive not to mention against wiki policy. Anyway I think you need to check the chapter again, the actual quote from Sasuke is "As I expected, this won't work against his real body thanks to the Tailed Beasts"

697 continued: ...Naruto then makes his clones and counter attacks while Sasuke suffers with pain from his eye as he is trying to use it with too little chakra in his chakra reserves. Sasuke counters one of the clones with midair taijutsu and then summons 3 shuriken o take out 3 of the clones standing close together. He proceeds to use Chidori on the 4th but as he stabs it through the chest the clone catches his arm, lingering just long enough for the real Naruto to attack with a punch before dispersing. Sasuke and Naruto then create a Chidori and a Rasengan respectively but both soon disperse with them having little chakra remaining, Naruto tripping and falling over due to his fatigue just before his Rasengan disappears. Sasuke sees an opening to beat him up and the 2 begin a purely taijutsu brawl that lasts all day with neither giving in, showing their resolves. Kurama eventually grants Naruto with some chakra that Sasuke steals using his Rinnegan and then creates a Chidori in order to try and finish Naruto.

In 698: It is shown that Sasuke can't stabilise and use the chakra from Naruto instantly as he has only recently acquired his Rinnegan as stated by Kurama and Sasuke himself. Naruto is therefore able to counter with taijutsu and the 2 begin their final attacks as Kurama gives Naruto the remnants of his chakra before having to go into a long and deep rest to recover meaning he can't be called upon again for a while. Naruto charges a super tiny condensed Rasengan in order to increase it's power to size ratio while Sasuke combines Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi with his Chidori with the resulting clash leading to the both losing their dominant arms and falling unconscious from the blood loss sustained as such. Therefore the fight ended in a stalemate.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: every time i hear this excuse i wonder if you guys actually believe it. him using that chakra made his whole revolution plot line become irelevant with him bacsically contradicting himself like every other villain weve seen through out the series...

No idea where you're even going with this, it makes little to no sense but I do know that Sasuke never once contradicted himself, not even sure how using chakra could constitute contradicting anything really tbh. Please be more clear cut on this one.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...he was begging naruto to fall even last chapter he asked naruto to let him kill him... No he never said that, he just asked why it was that Naruto wouldn't stay down, sarcastically saying: (as you can tell from his expression) "No matter how many times I knock you down, you just keep on getting up...Just give me a break and fall already"

TrueAlphaJ wrote: another assumption on your part what healing can you show me this healing your talking about... Erm, no, it's not an assumption. Like I said, Naruto has accelerated healing due to being a Jinchuuriki. It's common knowledge and has been since Part 1 when he healed the hole i his chest that Sasuke made using a Chidori at the Valley of the End. Honestly I don't know how you didn't know that. Anyway I can't show it too you as it's passive much like the Uzumaki and Senju clans' longevity and incredible stamina/chakra. That's essentially their Kekkei Genkais only they're passive and therefore less flashy than most others, hence my earlier statement of if you take away Sasuke's Sharingan you need to take away Naruto's stamina and chakra reserves.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: where they add their own version of the character to try and justify a situation You're the one trying to make your own version of a character by trying to take away Sasuke's sharingan abilities.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: ...there you go full fight summary since it seemed like you didnt understand what was happening and the fact that naruto was the one that was awake first still seemed like he was awake for a little while longer since he said "you've finally come to eh" meaning sasuke has been unconscious for some time That wasn't a fight summary, it was a bad montage of words making little grammatical sense like the majority of your post, (please work on your grammar and spelling...and punctuation, it pains me to see such bad English) it was also exceedingly short; missing tons of info and detail focusing only on what you wanted in a very biased opinionated way, my truly full and objective fight summary is above ^

TrueAlphaJ wrote: during the paing arc base naruto was keeping up with pain in his base from then he entered sm to over power him Naruto was in Sage mode for most of that fight and he got truly owned when he ran out of natural energy to keep him in Sage mode.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: sasukes base isnt the same either his base stats actually decreased after losing the curse mark Again you show your lack of knowledge of a base form. Sasuke's curse seal never had anything to do with his base power and anyway, after losing the cursed seal he got MS which was an upgrade from the seal both in potential and in extra chakra it awakened for him.

TrueAlphaJ wrote: current naruto is ahead of sasuke No he isn't, as I have just unequivocally proven. Sorry.

And to whomever it was that said Naruto won the fight cus Sasuke said so...no he didn't. The fight was clearly a draw, Sasuke just admitted to Naruto that he'd lost the battle of will when their hearts finally connected properly in that last attack where they lost their arms, as in Sasuke was conceding that Naruto's ideology was better is in essence is what he was trying to say.

Now please actually read all of this before you reply ill-informedly otherwise you are being extremely disrespectful in regard to myself given the time and effort I've put into this extreme breakdown.

Also before you go and tell me how wrong I am on everything I've said: 1- I use only facts and give evidence to support my claims, unlike your points mine follow logic and are derived from references I have stated in my analyses. I don't henceforth, make assumptions, nor do I quote things without checking the quote. In fact I re-read all the chapters I've spoke about today as I wrote this somewhat tedious reply for the 2nd time following it's initial deletion somehow.

I don't think I've missed anything but if I have I will add it to this post later. In all fairness there are 376 lines of writing here so...