Talk:Tailed Beast Rasengan

Status
Is this really necessary? That was merely a Rasengan made with tailed beast chakra, this is more towards the Vermilion Rasengan we long ago incorporated the Rasengan page than it is to a new technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:21, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is needed either.--Deva 27 (talk) 01:23, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is needed either, it was a normal rasengan with a different chakra source. S im A nt 01:24, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you all forgotten how much Kishimoto loves to make new Rasengan with completely uninspired names? ~SnapperTo 03:54, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

SimAnt, if you don't like it, please refrain from taking the picture off the page...

I think it does need it's own page. It's completely different from the normal Rasengan. It's got a different chakra source, different way of forming it, and it's not a Tailed Beast Bomb like the other Tailed Beasts use. I think it's good to have a page so it doesn't get confused with the other ones (: SusanooUnleashed (talk) 04:16, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, because does a normal Rasengan have this type of formation? Nope. A normal Rasengan uses the concentrated spiral, now this Rasengan just forms into a compacted ball, no rotations needed.

Oops, I was wrong. It DOES need chakra rotation :P CDi-FailsCDi-Fails (talk) 04:42, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Would just like to mention that tailed beast bomb can only be performed in biju mode. RASENGAN is a jutsu that took its concept from the biju ball. Bee said that it was as if minato made this jutsu for his son. SOOOO naruto can perform this tech without having to go into biju mode. THIS IS NARUTO'S WAY OF DOING THE BIJU BOMB. we should add this on the page....

The Vermilion Rasengan and Tailed Beast Ball Rasengan are two different jutsus. The latter also doesn't look like a normal Rasengan. I think the justu's earned a high enough rank to get it's own page. When the Fourth Data book comes out it'll probably get its name and rank. That's if Kishi-sensei doesn't give it's actual name later in the manga even. Sparxs77 (talk) 08:26, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't there a page dedicated to all the rasengan? I really wish people would wait before they go creating pages... The technique was barely even created yet. This really is the pat of manga release that i detest --Cerez365 (talk) 11:38, December 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I have to say that I don't think this technique deserves its own page. From what I can gather, it is nothing more than a simple Rasengan with unexpected results. Naruto may use those chakra arms to create it, but we don't consider his Kage Bunshin-created Rasengan to be different from the normal one. He may use the Kyūbi's chakra, but that doesn't make it fundamentally different either. It should be mentioned on the Rasengan page, but an own page is too much for now. —ShounenSuki (talk 11:41, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

With all respect said now, if this page gets deleted, then Wind Style: Rasengan should also be deleted. Same fundemental basics isn't it. THAT is also just a Rasengan infused with Wind Chakra. This is a Rasengan infused with Kyuubi chakra. It's a pretty huge step in the manga. It even says at the end of the chapter that it's a new jutsu. We keep all the non-canon game Rasengans (examples include True Rasengan, Three Tailed Rasengan), but we shoot down the actual canon that comes along. I just don't think it's fair that we keep certain stuff, just because we feel like it and then discard other CANON stuff!! Sparxs77 (talk) 18:55, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wind Release: Rasengan has nature manipulation added to the mix, which does indeed make it fundamentally different from the Rasengan. It is also easier to categorise on the wiki when it has its own article. We keep the game variations because they are treated differently in the games. this Rasengan was considered nothing more than a Rasengan. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:16, December 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * End of chapter 519 (according to the Mangastream translation) it states "new jutsu." I hate to repeat myself, but this Rasengan looks entirely different than a regular Rasengan!! A regular Rasengan resembles typhoon. This new Rasengan resembles a Menacing Ball. This will be something entirely new, because Naruto will not be able to consume this. It'll be his own unique jutsu unlike other Jinchuriki's Menacing Ball. It deserves recognition. On Sasuke's page the Shield of Amaterasu is the same as Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi (Shape Transformation of Amaterasu) and yet that has never been considered for deletion. That is why I stated above: If we do one thing on one page, it should be done on all the pages. Sparxs77 (talk) 12:57, December 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sparxs, the end of chapter 519 on Mangastream says "Naruto begins a new technique..." signifying that he is getting ready to create a new one. That doesn't change the fact that this was simply a Rasengan, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter what it looks like. Naruto wasn't trying anything different with it, so its just the regular technique. Using the Shield of Amaterasu and Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi as an example doesn't make sense either, since they are different techniques. In one, Sasuke simply sets Susanoo on fire with Amaterasu to protect himself, and with the other, he actually shapes the flames into spikes to use for attack. Those are two completely different uses, and the second was given a name. Naruto called this technique the Rasengan when he was forming it. Its the same thing! I don't even see how there is still an argument here. All of the information on this page is located on Rasengan's page too, so this page is redundant. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 15:15, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ten Tailed Fox, telling me that my example doesn't make sense is the biggest slap in the face I got. You've just decided that this page isn't necessary and when people comes to the front with evidence, why it is an important page, then it "doesn't make sense!" Whatever, do what you want... Delete the page. Obviously the lesser contributor's contributions and facts are not taken into account. Sparxs77 (talk) 07:21, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

Probably the best idea, we should just put this picture on Naruto's main page under the new information added last week. What this article details is identical to what Naruto's main page is saying, so we might as well show his "new way of forming his rasengan" on the main page and delete this article until more information is revealed about the 8:2 ratio rasengan. Shikamaru1994 (talk) 23:29, December 7, 2010 (UTC)Shikamaru1994

Normal Rasengan
ShounenSuki is right. When Naruto was forming this technique, he wasn't adding anything new to it. He was just trying to form the regular Rasengan with his Nine-Tails Chakra Arms instead of Shadow Clones. It unexpectedly took on the form of the Tailed Beast Ball. Βee further proves this by saying that Rasengan is essentially the same as the Menacing ball because it uses the same fundamental steps to form it. This technique is nothing more than a normal Rasengan that had unexpected results. Until Naruto gives it a new name or it shows a fundamentally different use from the normal Rasengan, this should be merged with the normal Rasengan page. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 16:50, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we should just keep this page like it is, and wait for more info. Anyways, we have already mentioned it is incomplete. Even so, wouldn't you call rasengan an incomplete move??? it only had shape transformation, no nature.


 * I think its pretty dumb to keep it up, actually. All the information on this article has been added to Rasengan's article, making this article redundant. Furthermore, as I said, this is a normal Rasengan, so it belongs on the normal Rasengan's page. This article, in my opinion, is unneeded. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 22:03, December 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * It isn't a 'normal Rasengan', hell its practically called a new technique at the end of the chapter. And its using Black and White chakra-how isn't that fundamentally different to the normal Rasengan? --NaruHina fan (talk) 20:24, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with what NaruHina says -- Leodix   |   My Talk   |   Contributions   20:33, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's just the sig, the users' actual name is SuperSaiyaMan. And what the chapter said is that Naruto's is beginning to use make a new technique. When Naruto started making this, he calls it Rasengan. We've seen many techniques much more similar to Rasengan be given different names, I find it unlikely that this will change all of a sudden. Like mentioned before, this is merely a Rasengan made with a different chakra source, and we never considered Shadow Clone-aided Rasengan as a different technique, same applies here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:50, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * This technique Naruto showed was clearly a normal Rasengan. The new technique will be one that actually works in Rikudō Mode. The final page of chapter 519 say and the preview for chapter 520 says . Both clearly indicate Naruto doesn't actually have a new jutsu yet. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:11, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Delete
In my opinion, we should keep the article until we have more information that may appear on the next chapter. -- Leodix   |   My Talk   |   Contributions   20:01, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Still, keeping the delete tag directs people to take part in the discussion. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:50, December 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's always the chance to redirect this page to the Rasengan page and add the details there and only reinstate this page if enough information is provided that would make it worthy to have it's own separate page, due to the fact that not enough notable information is available at the moment, and is an alternative to deletion. -Adv193 (talk) 01:12, December 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Chapter 520 calls it a new technique, and Naruto even gives it a new name, so I say we keep this article! --CDi-Fails (talk) 03:58, December 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can also agree now. Naruto has named it and he has also noted differences from the regular Rasengan (weight). ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 04:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * The technique we were shown in 519 is still different from the technique we were shown in 520, though. The difference lies in Naruto trying to balance the black and white chakra. —ShounenSuki (talk 12:01, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just put it under the normal rasengan page as, "new form of rasengan" or something like that.Elvesyou--JS 14:06, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ratio simplification
I know Kishimoto mentioned the chakra ratio as 8:2, and I have no big issues with it, but is there some significant reason for us not to simplify it as 4:1? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:09, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not really necessary in my opinion. it wouldn't add much and might actually cause some minor confusion. Let's just keep it the way it is. —ShounenSuki (talk 22:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Plan on what to do
Let's just keep the page, then once Naruto completes the new technique, we can update the page to make it official info on the actual COMPLETE version.

Is it safe to say that it is a short range technique. Rasengan is a short range but the tailed beast bonb is not so shouldn't we wait to see the characteristics that this jutsu will adapt. This jutsu could end up being like rasen shuriken witch can be thrown. --Rigoberto60 (talk) 16:11, December 20, 2010 (UTC) You know how Bee said this is made in the exact same way as the Tailed-Beast Ball, so maybe it's attack is the same as a Tailed-Beast ball but a lot harder to make. So it could be Long-Range. We don't know yet though we'll just have to wait.--Shabih (talk) 19:47, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yang
In the Yang Release page it says: "When Naruto was in Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, Yamato's Wood Release totems reacted to the Yang chakra's life-giving properties and matured into full-grown trees."

Since it has already been said that Minato sealed the Kyubi's Yang chakra inside Naruto and since it has been proved by the above statement that Naruto's covered in Yang chakra when in his new transformation, could we consider the new Rasengan to be a Yang release technique?Nawirama13 (talk) 20:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Since we don't fully known what Bee meant by the black and white chakra ratio, we're avoiding that at the moment. Plus, if Yin and Yang turn out to be something that is a general skill, it isn't listed except for special cases, and we'll have to see if this is one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:52, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

I guess the only way to solve all these dilemmas is a 4th databook. Sigh...Nawirama13 (talk) 21:06, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

We don't know yet if it is a yang release, but it probably is going to be. The Black and White may be Yin and Yang chakra... but Naruto doesn't have the Nine-Tails' Yin chakra--Shabih (talk) 19:53, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Naruto has his own Yin chakra to draw from, instead of using the lack Kyubi Yin chakra he could supplant it with his.Umishiru (talk) 20:30, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

He can't because he has to temporarily shelve out his chakra to use the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode.--Shabih (talk) 21:25, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yin and Yang essentially mean Dark and Light. Black and White. Tailed beasts are essentially made of yin and yang chakra. And consdering the tailed beast bomb is 8 dark and 2 light. It is a Yin-Yang Release technique. What else could killer bee have meant. There is yet another type of chakra called black and white chakra. No, its Yin and Yang chakra. Please dont get this confused with Yin and Yang energies. Basically Yin and Yang Chakra. Is Dark and Light. Yin and Yang energies. Which form the foundation of basic chakra. Is spiritual and physical. There is two different types of Yin and Yang in Naruto.

So yeah. Tailed Beast bomb is a Yin-Yang Release technique.

Yeah... no. The terms used to describe the chakra qualities in the Tailed Beast Rasengan were black and white, positive and negative. Not Yin and Yang. Just because those terms can be associated with one of the principles, it doesn't mean they are. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:29, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Chakra Arms
Should they be mentioned as a pearent jutsu? We don't list Shadow Clone Technique as a parent for Rasenshuriken. Naruto uses arms because he can't craete Rasengan by himself.--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:30, January 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see where you're coming from. Not sure what to do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:40, January 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Consider this: Chakra Arms is technically not a jutsu. It's merely using demon chakra in place of arms, tails, entire body.--TheUltimate3 ~Aspect of Wiki ~ 21:50, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

You should keep it,it has different forming,different color and different power

Fox Mode Rasengan
Can you tell me how Naruto can do a normal Rasengan in his Fox Mode? When he tries to form the Rasengan for the first time in this mode, it's the Tailed Beast Bomb. But in the latest chapter, he can do a normal Rasengan in his Fox Mode. Shouldn't it be the Tailed Beast Bomb again? 24.129.58.16 (talk) 23:38, July 7, 2011 (UTC)Joey


 * The Tailed Beast Rasengan is trying to mold the black and white chakra of a demon into a Rasengan, as he is incapable of forming Tailed Beast Ball on his own. All the Rasengans are just elaborate normal Rasengans, probably using the cloak to spin the his normal chakra without his hands.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 00:23, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken, he tried to do a "normal" Rasengan when he found out he couldn't do the Tailed Beast Bomb. When he tried that "normal" Rasengan, it turned out to the Tailed Beast Bomb.24.129.58.16 (talk) 01:31, July 8, 2011 (UTC)Joey

let the creators do it however they want they made it---SuperSaiyanKrillin (talk) 16:30, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

As of Chapter 554...
Should this be deleted or merged somehow due to the fact that Naruto calls it the Tailed Beast Ball in the latest chapter? Questionaredude (talk) 02:37, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't take his statement to be literal. We should wait for the next chapter.--Deva 27 02:40, September 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * In the following chapter, Dodai comments it's the same TBB as the one used by 8-tails. --109.92.185.169 (talk) 00:38, December 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * All TBB are the same... what's your point?--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 00:45, December 17, 2011 (UTC)