Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-31810758-20170513174308/@comment-734582-20170516163835

Kakashisologod1 wrote: I am on his side.Itachi loses but not nearly as bad as people make it up to be. Based on what? His yata mirror stopping a few explosive tags and his Totsuka blade sealing stationary targets? He's fighting a guy who cut several mountains just to prove his point, and didn't use one of his strongest jutsu because he thought it was an insult to use it twice. The guy literally forced maps to be rewritten. Madara fought Hashirama, a guy so powerful he subdued Tailed Beasts. Itachi is Sannin-level (something Manga and Databook agree on), similar to Nagato. Madara is beyond that by a considerable margin.

Itachi even with EMS would only have a Susanoo, whereas Madara was using Perfect Susanoo with his EMS. (if you can cast a Majestic Attire, you can cast a PS. They're similar in size and power. If he got Kurama's chakra, for such a large-scale jutsu we'd be seeing the cloak or a golden glow). According to his own words (and further proof by Obito V Kakashi), (visual) genjutsu doesn't work on someone with the same eyes.

Madara is simply too powerful, as clearly shown in the Manga. It was even made a point in the Manga that his very name and the threat of his power was enough to start the 4th war. I don't see the point in comparisons of how long he could fight. The Raikage fought fodder for 3 days. Madara fought a guy that creates forests in his spare time, a guy with enough chakra that a Kurama jinchuriki is "comparable" and had enough power to fight Madara AND Kurama at the same time. To keep that up for 24 hours is far far different than the Raikage.

I also don't see the point in comparisons to DBZ (Naruto: world where genetics, hard work and talent grant reasonably limited power. DBZ: no upper limit to power. Just train and you become stronger regardless), since they operate on completely different concepts.

I also don't see the point in "healthy Itachi" debates since we have no idea what that actually looks like. We only know that he should've been able to dodge a shuriken which he couldn't do in his sickness, that his power was enough to keep Danzo in line. Also, that he wasn't comfortable taking on Jiraiya and was worried enough to use an Amaterasu to escape (despite fading eyesight). This was well before his fight with Sasuke. So even in health there's no real indication that he'd be exponentially more powerful or so.

It's also not entirely clear what EMS does for you, since Madara had it for quite some time before fighting Hashirama in the Valley (and we have not that much info on his MS days). There's some indication from Sasuke that it significantly increases your chakra, but no hard info. It makes Mangekyou abilities spammable, but Madara has the same power. We don't know his MS powers and it's not clear if he chose not to use them or couldn't use them. Sasuke's eye has both MS and Rinnegan powers and shows a noticeably different design, indicating that Madara's Rinnegan robbed him of his MS powers (and whatever ones he may have used against Hashirama weres probably after the Thousand Hands/Kurama showdown AKA the 23-ish hours of the battle we didn't see).