Talk:Boruto: Naruto Next Generations

Image
Shall we use the image from the announcement page for the article? Norleon (talk) 11:39, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not? But I prefer the issue cover of WSJ that will contain the first chapter of this series (if released of course). Until that time, we can use this image. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 13:44, December 19, 2015 (UTC)

Chapter references
Okay. So at one point, a few users felt there was no need to specify the name of the manga we were referencing, because at the time, it was blatantly obvious that we were referring to the Naruto manga, as there weren't multiple manga series to document at the time. However, with this new Boruto manga, I would guess that the need to specify which manga series we are referencing is indeed important now, right? None of us anticipated there would be another series that continued the Naruto manga. Over a year ago, I had edited hundreds of articles to make the change. I am willing to change those back (or request the usage of a bot, whichever is wanted, though the bot does not get everything) for the upcoming monthly manga series. I would think using "Chapter 0, page 0" and "Boruto chapter 0, page 0" would be confusing without using "Naruto chapter 0, page 0" to specify the former. But I must ask first: Does anyone think this change is necessary for the upcoming series? Or no? 23:14, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * It would make sense to do this. Munchvtec (talk) 23:17, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * I was discussing that very thing with a few users on chat. Which is also why I stooped making redirects for the Naruto manga as I najed them "Chapter ?" because like you said. We didn't anticipate a new manga series. Of course I'll need to rename them "Naruto chapter ?". To answer your concern, I agree that referencing pages "Boruto chapter ?" and "Naruto chapter ?" is what we should do. However, I don't think a bot is necessary. There are plenty of users to helo out on this change. --Rai 水 (talk) 23:24, March 21, 2016 (UTC)
 * Seeing how this discussion is now in the forum, it makes this one redundant. Makes things inconvenient for me, but whatever. Do as you please. 06:59, March 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * Soooo, are we decided on this yet? :x 00:34, March 26, 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't know how the chapters will be numbered. If it starts with chapter 7+11 or 711, the change seems unnecessary, but if not, i support the change. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 06:12, March 26, 2016 (UTC)

Reboot
So now that first chapter of the Boruto series is out and its chapters don't continue from 700+10, we can start making the changes to references - changing "Chapter ?" to "Naruto chapter ?". My question is, should we, when referubg the Boruto series, put "Boruto chapter ?" or "Boruto: Naruto Next Generations chapter ?". --Rai 水 (talk) 20:57, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Canoncity
If supervised by Kishimoto, would it be canon?Cloudtheavenger (talk) 02:11, May 19, 2016 (UTC)
 * "The series serves as an official continuation of the Naruto franchise". --Sarutobii2 (talk) 02:21, May 19, 2016 (UTC)

Chapter release dates
Should we start including the Japanese & English release dates of the chapters in there infoboxes, like we do for anime episodes & volumes? It would be more informative imo. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 18:33, June 11, 2016 (UTC)

Anime article
So, isn't there an article for neither Denki, the character introduced in the first anime episode of Boruto, neither an article for the episode itself. HygorBohmHubner (talk) 21:51, April 6, 2017
 * I usually create the episode articles, but I don't believe the infoboxes have been updated to understand there are two anime series now. If I filled out all the appropriate fields, stuff would get a bit wonky. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:11, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

So, what you're saying, there won't be no Boruto anime episode articles? HygorBohmHubner - Talk
 * There certainly will be. I'm just saying that as things are now, they'd have to be created without filling certain infobox parameters, or without infoboxes at all until they can be adjusted. I asked about them in the thread about the episode, but no one really noticed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:34, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

Novel
Novel Version?. --Sharingan91 (talk) 15:05, April 26, 2017 (UTC)

5 years
Where was it said that the anime takes place 5 years before the manga? There's no source.Yahyanime (talk) 21:24, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * Boruto episode 2 says it has been 10 years since the world war, and the Boruto movie which the manga starts off with is said to be 15 years after the war. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 21:29, April 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * ...although I don't give a rat's ass about Naruto anymore, I maaaaybe should watch the anime, for the sake of my timeline... are there any more dates or anything? • Seelentau 愛 議 21:52, April 27, 2017 (UTC)

Novel "titles"
Just in case someone wants to create articles for the novels, here are their titles or... well, what is said above the "Novel 1/2" on the cover: • Seelentau 愛 議 13:34, June 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Novel 1:
 * Novel 2:
 * In the moment, I've added titles on this page. --Sharingan91 (talk) 17:28, June 10, 2017 (UTC)

Vol 73 + Question
The Scarlet Spring arc is finally getting animated. Now, my question is: It says, "Ghost Incident arc" so do we have an official name for the second arc in the Boruto manga? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 18:42, July 8, 2017 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * Currently there's no name for the current manga arc, though given the plot it should be renamed to "Mujina Bandits Arc" if it doesn't receive an official name. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:11, July 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * He obviously meant the anime... :)--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:21, July 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * @Sarutobii2: I agree, we should call it that name. @BerserkerPhantom: Yes, sorry, I meant the anime. I should have clarified. Thank you for the clarification. In any case, yes, I am referring to the anime. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 23:44, July 8, 2017 (UTC)Kiumaruhamachi

Novel 1
On this page we have it called "The New Leaves Soaring Through the Blue Sky!", so why is it in the novel debut section in the infobox is it called "The New Konoha Ninja Flying In the Blue Sky!"? --Rai 水 (talk) 04:36, March 20, 2018 (UTC)
 * Bump --Rai 水 (talk) 19:01, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * Because nobody updated the debut section since August 2017, I suppose. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:03, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * So is the official name the latter than? If so, I'll get to changing it and the redirect. --Rai 水 (talk) 20:06, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * No, the one in this article. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:33, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok. So to be clear, it is called "The New Konoha Ninja Flying In the Blue Sky!"? --Rai 水 (talk) 20:35, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * ... • Seelentau 愛 議 20:41, March 21, 2018 (UTC)

Did you misunderstand what I was asking? --Rai 水 (talk) 20:55, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * No. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:16, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * So what was the "..." for? I know I used latter, but I was talking about the name used on this page. If it is called the latter, than the infoboxes need to be updated. If not, the name on this page needs to be changed. --Rai 水 (talk) 21:22, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think you know what "latter" means. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:35, March 21, 2018 (UTC)
 * Why are you avoiding my question with snarky remarks for? Either you can help me or you can't. Like I said there are two different names. If you know what the name really is, then make the edit(s) please. --Rai 水 (talk) 02:49, March 22, 2018 (UTC)

To clear things up, he did answer your question: "On this page we have it called 'The New Leaves Soaring Through the Blue Sky!'..." "So is the official name the latter than? If so, I'll get to changing it and the redirect." "No, the one in this article." "This page" = "This article" = "The New Leaves Soaring Through the Blue Sky!" is what he was referring to as the correct translation. So not "The New Konoha Ninja Flying In the Blue Sky!". EDIT: Updated the infoboxes accordingly. 04:16, March 22, 2018 (UTC)
 * @Windy Thank you. Much appreciated. --Rai 水 (talk) 04:19, March 22, 2018 (UTC)

I answered the question with my first reply: "so why is it in the novel debut section in the infobox is it called "The New Konoha Ninja Flying In the Blue Sky!"?" => "Because nobody updated the debut section since August 2017". No idea why Rai would think the official name is the one in the infobox. • Seelentau 愛 議 16:01, March 22, 2018 (UTC)

Official character English names
A book that i believe came out with Japanese 2nd Boruto dvd boxset features English names for characters that differ from the ones we use on the wiki. From the names, which articles should be renamed if any? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 08:00, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell (I didn't bother with the anime), they're just romanised differently, no? Or do the characters in this pamphler have entirely different names? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:17, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * Those names are written in another romanisation system. Different methods of writing (eg, Wāpuro vs Hepburn) but still the same. --SUIV (talk) 13:52, March 23, 2018 (UTC)
 * They look like the names Crunchyroll uses (ex. Killer B -> Killer Bee), so... No? We don't use viz names either (C -> Shee, Onoki -> Ohnoki, etc.), so why should we use these?--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 15:01, March 23, 2018 (UTC)

Anime arcs
Apparently, there are six arcs? The page doesn't give any names, but it breaks the anime down into six stories/events... • Seelentau 愛 議 18:48, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * So let's pretend a few of us don't speak Japanese and cannot interpret that page. Does it tell us what those six arcs are?--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 19:09, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, what the pictures show. I think the only difference is that the page differs between Academy and Ghost Incident arcs. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:25, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * The Ghost Incident at the earliest begins at episode 7 judging by the image used. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 18:13, March 27, 2018 (UTC)

Found this game on the anime's website that i guess is in relation to arcs. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 02:53, April 5, 2018 (UTC)

Arc Names
This scan where the Graduation Arc was officially named, this scan named the upcoming Boruto Chunin Exams,  (sharing the same to Naruto's) implies it a seperated arc and there's will likely a cut-off to Versus Momoshiki Arc.--Sulina (talk) 12:16, April 6, 2018 (UTC)
 * By any chance do the scans indicate what date/episode the two arcs begin/began? Trying to determine how accurate our arc pages are after discovering this which seemingly lists the Graduation Exams Arc spanning from episode 34-37. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 10:01, April 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * Some arcs and details are there, total 06 along with episodes covering, as listed:
 * Eps. 1-16 (already stated here);
 * Eps. 17-24;
 * Eps. 25-32;
 * Eps. 34-37;
 * Eps. 40-42;
 * Eps. 43-47;
 * This also said the upcoming Chūnin Exams event from Boruto: Naruto the Movie story will adapt into in the anime in April but no confirmation about how long this arc goes beside the old info about reincorporating Kishimoto's initial movie draft we already knew.--Sulina (talk) 15:32, April 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * Appreciate you taking the time to look into the matter. Taking into account what Seel posted right above, what should we do? The two arc structures conflict with one another. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 16:21, April 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * DVD BOX1 contains episodes 1-15, explicitly named "Academy Entrance Arc", notes that it spans from Boruto's entrance to the Academy to the climax of The Ghost Incident (ep. 15). Unlikely, BOX2 includes eps 16-32, consists two arcs: Sarada Uchiha Arc and School Trip Arc.--Sulina (talk) 19:38, April 7, 2018 (UTC)

>Regarding the "Chunin Exams Arc". You do realise, @Sulina, that it's the Vs. Momoshiki arc under a different name, right? Or are you really confused, 'cuz if you are, please tell me so I could be certain that you're not trolling... Just like the Sarada Uchiha arc was re-named for the anime release. The poster clearly emphasizes that the Momoshiki fight is part of the arc, and the Vs. Momoshiki arc contains the Chunin Exams in the manga, and on this wiki, we follow the manga's choice of arc precedent, so...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 20:46, April 9, 2018 (UTC)
 * From the scan I provided, beside the arc name, no details about the story and it never states that the Arc will focus on VS Momoshiki even though the visual showed Ōtsutsuki trio. Well, you can put them aside. From @Sarutobi, the Chunin Exams from Boruto Movie will be adapted into the latest arc borrowing element from Kishimoto's draft for the movie. Possibly, following suits of the short length of previous Boruto arcs, there'll be more than 01 arc we could see in the anime series. --Sulina (talk) 16:02, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * How can there be two separate arcs when the poster specifies that it is for this arc in particular (an arc that starts in April, they said), and that it'll contain Boruto's fight with Momoshiki...? O.o Some flawed thinking if you ask me.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:14, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * For promotional purpose maybe? People would heat up for a climax boss battle rather than a group of genin showing off their skills. Believe me, I'd like to see more specific details but...--Sulina (talk) 17:30, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * And you mean to say that TV scans are not for promotional purposes????? o.O Wat?--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:32, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * Did I? The scan shows Ōtsutsuki villain trio but possibly they're not the main focus of this arc but the upcoming Chunin Exams, or not, that's what I meant "promotional," in addition to what I said above.--Sulina (talk) 17:38, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * Again, what? "Not the main focus"? Opening, ending, promotional material, etc. would suggest otherwise. I don't think you know how promotional material works. :/--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:44, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * "Product image for illustration purposes only. Actual product may vary." like this? Unless it explicitly says that the arc will adapt Momoshiki's fight, I won't think such case happen. Chunin Exams Arc for Chunin Exams and we should wait for further announcements.--Sulina (talk) 17:51, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * It did. And promotional material for anime doesn't work like that, it's done months in advance, and is used to get people hyped for the zenith/high point of the arc in question.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 17:55, April 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * Then, you could expain why they title the arc "Chūnin Exams Arc" but not a Momoshiki-related one? Chūnin Exams adapts Chūnin Exams, it's stated there, in those scans while Momoshiki fight wasn't, go with this. I never stated 100% that they, anime staff or plan or whatever, didn't adapt it when you talked like "I know, I thought" 100% what's gonna happen. Anime progress doesn't follow your thought, it follows their OWN PLAN, and you have no real evidences. Believe or not, I'm not trolling in the first place, I'm not new to this wiki, either, and I feel "stupid" arguing with you.--Sulina (talk) 04:09, April 13, 2018 (UTC)
 * Because different material has different names for arcs, and arc names are subject to change; That doesn't mean it's a different arc (look at the 1st Boruto arc for example, it has at least 3 known official names, yet it's still the same, single arc.). Promotional material revealed at Jump Festa of all things stated that this arc will be a re-telling of the (entire) movie, so, it's a single arc, no questions asked.--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 20:18, April 17, 2018 (UTC)

Boruto's Chunin Exams Arc
So I am assuming were are placing the arc title "Chunin Exams Arc" in the main-direct link under Versus Momoshiki arc? Considering Versus Momoshiki is an actual arc titled name and it will link to the Boruto movie anyway. But, we should not add it to everyone's page as they may not even be shown in the anime adaptation so its best we only make the add to those we've seen thus far. --Rai 水 (talk) 04:13, May 5, 2018 (UTC)

Manga & Anime
So, the Boruto anime and manga are beginning to diverge significantly, which wasn't difficult to prognosticate. In the movie/manga, Naruto notices Boruto cheating in his match with Shikidai and disqualifies his son. As of the latest Boruto episode, this does not occur, and Boruto progresses to the next round. Per the canon policy, the movie, manga and anime are all K-canon, the manga retcons the movie (thus the movie isn't documented in character articles, but the manga instead), and the manga takes precedent over the anime in the event that dissimilarities occur between the two. Clearly from this week's episode, the anime and manga are going to have disparate events. Apropos of this and the policy, do we, like we did with the movie, choose not to document the anime in character articles in favor of the manga? Or do we still document the anime in those specific pages, despite the notable differences?

Personally, I believe the movie and manga are similar enough where choosing to document only the manga is justified. However, since the anime is on quite a separate route, I think that unlike the movie, we can document the variations of events between the manga and anime in character articles (such as Boruto and Shikidai) like so: we begin the introductory paragraphs with "In the manga, such and such happens... Boruto is disqualified" with the appropriate references to the manga throughout the subsequent sentences and paragraphs. Then directly under this, we can say "In the anime's telling of events, such and such occurs... Shikadai loses and Boruto moves to the next round" with citations from the anime (I think we did this with Hagoromo and Hamura's articles with their backgrounds when the anime profusely contradicted the manga). Thoughts? 23:28, May 24, 2018 (UTC)
 * we all know that the anime version was from Kishimoto's original draft of the movie and my thoughts are okay how it goes in any version. and for boruto's disqualification in the anime might appear in the later episode Kunoichi101 (talk) 00:59, May 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * I made an edit to Boruto's article that somewhat goes with your proposal. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 15:20, May 25, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your responses, Kunoichi101 and Saru.
 * "we all know that the anime version was from Kishimoto's original draft of the movie and my thoughts are okay how it goes in any version."
 * Does this mean you agree with the proposal? Or am I misunderstanding?
 * "and for boruto's disqualification in the anime might appear in the later episode"
 * Does not change the fact that in the manga, Naruto noticed Boruto's cheating directly after the latter's match with Shikadai, and in the anime, this not the case and Boruto is in the final round. Even if he does get disqualified afterwards, the events are still significantly different in the two variations of the story.
 * @Saru, I've seen your edit. Wondering if more should be done for separation, aside from separate paragraphs, should we use subheaders titled "Manga" and "Anime" to further distinguish events along with the "In the manga/anime" introductory sentences (perhaps there wouldn't be any need to add references if those subheaders are present in the article)?
 * I believe this topic is important to address as soon as possible, as I've noticed the events in the anime haven't been noted in Shikadai's page at all, but have been to a certain degree for Boruto and Sarada's pages, for instance. So should we find a way to document anime events? Or are we just not going to document them? 05:56, June 2, 2018 (UTC)
 * Seelentau may disagree, but in my opinion, the latest rendition of an event is the most canonical, so basically novel anime adaptation&anime > movie&novel movie adaptation&manga.--Elve Talk Page 07:31, June 2, 2018 (UTC)
 * Dunno, I don't watch the anime, but it's equally canon to the manga. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:21, June 2, 2018 (UTC)
 * @Elve, the anime retconning the manga? Alright, that would be an easy solution.
 * @Tau, ok, but they contradict each other significantly now. Do you think we should document them both in character articles like I suggested or something else?
 * There is also the case where the manga will just take precedence over the anime, which is also fine.
 * I'm just wondering what the decision is, as the character articles so far do not consistently adhere to one of the three suggestions I've listed. Given how Boruto and Sarada's articles have anime-exclusive information on the Chunin Exams for instance, I'm postulating that the reason some other articles from characters of the same generation do not have anime events covered in them is because we haven't fully decided how we are going to note the variations. 07:39, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

The manga and movie tried to rush the events, as you know the movie was constrained on time since its just a movie, and the manga tries to get a lot done in the chapters it puts out since its only once a month so they rushed the exams too. In the anime they have weekly episodic time, so they can take their time and flesh out the exams more. FlatZone (talk) 10:10, June 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree with that sentiment FlatZone, but none of that answers the real question here: how are we going to document said events in character articles? Is it, "manga takes priority over anime", or "anime retcons manga", or noting both variations in articles, as we've done before? Case and point, let's use Naruto's article as an example: in the manga, Naruto noticed something suspicious about Boruto's victory over Shikadai and had his wife confirm his suspicions. In today's episode, Boruto exposed himself by using Purple Lightning against Shinki, causing the Hokage to intervene without needing his wife. Does one event retcon the other in character articles, or do we note them both? 17:55, June 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * I say we list both events. I mean, we listed all the mess that was the anime's take on Kaguya and Hagoromo, and that conflicted a lot more than anything currently happening on the anime. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:31, June 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * What Omni says. Our job is supposedly to document everything 'Naruto/Boruto' whatever, not to make sense of it, the latter is more fun though 'smiles'--Elve Talk Page 21:51, June 7, 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your responses, guys. Does anyone have any other thoughts? 22:42, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

Bumping this once more. 20:13, June 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Don't think we need separate sections for both telling of events like with Hagoromo's article. What we're doing currently as in the case of Boruto's article seems fine in regrades to documenting both the anime and movie. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 05:54, June 17, 2018 (UTC)
 * HA HA HA HA! It's fine now. Why? Because I am here!
 * No we do not need to separate the sections for retelling the same event. As per the canon policy, the Boruto anime is equal level to the movie, which means technically the anime does retcon the events shown in the movie as it comes out several years later. If we must reference both, then we can make note of the difference.--TheUltimate3 Akimichi Symbol.svg (talk) 01:05, June 18, 2018 (UTC)
 * As long as we finally have a consistent method of documenting events in the manga and the anime across character articles, I'll be satisfied. The Boruto anime does have significant differences from the Boruto manga/movie, but admittedly not a copious amount of them. However, if the anime does arrive at a point where it has an egregious quantity of contradictions with the manga in an arc (like the Otsutsuki history on Earth between both of them), then I'd think separate sections would be necessary. 07:37, June 18, 2018 (UTC)

Arc 10 and 11
So are we going to rename these two arcs from what they were called in the DVD release if the translations are correct? I can help changing the name on linked pages. Fissionintroduce (talk) 19:05, November 29, 2019 (UTC)
 * iirc we use DVD names above others, but mention others of course. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:42, November 29, 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok I've rechecked WSJ and I couldn't find any name for the 10th arc but they did name the 11th one in the 16th issue of 2019 here. Fissionintroduce (talk) 13:59, November 30, 2019 (UTC)

Alternate anime arc names
I've noticed in most of the arc pages that there are at least two other alternate names. Supposedly the names from the DVD releases are the ones we go by, so where do the second alternate names come from? And regarding the "Jūgo Arc", it is only referred as so by one of the writers but not called that on the DVD releases. So it's either the "Cursed Seal Arc" or "Cursed Seal Infection Arc". OmegaRasengan (talk) 16:42, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Anyone? OmegaRasengan (talk) 16:33, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * From what I understand, we call the arc from whatever official source material we have first and then refers to the other official names as "also known as". If not from the DVD releases, they usually come from magazines such as the Weekly Shōnen Jump, V Jump or Saikyō Jump, they can also be included on official product/event such as this sugoroku posted by TV TOKYO a while ago which also include episode range. I wanted to reference all the Boruto arc names with a reliable source before but didn't do it for some reason but the current ones are all genuine. I commented about the Jūgo Arc on its talk page here. Fissionintroduce (talk) 19:31, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

"Decoupling"
Hi.

The page seems a little incongruent on the relationship between "Naruto Next Generations" and "Two Blue Vortex": it labels TBV as a Part II of NNG (as opposed to Part II of Boruto as a whole) and lists the first arc of TBV as if it's related to NNG; at the same time, the intro to the page uses the past tense, implying that NNG is a finished work, and therefore TBV isn't its second part, but rather a sequel series that constitutes the second part of Boruto as a whole.

This is a little contradictory, and I think we should lean towards the second interpretation: given the change in title and logo, and the fact that the chapter count re-started, it's pretty clear that TBV is, publication-wise, a new, sequel series that is Part II of "Boruto", rather than Part II of "Boruto: NNG", and treating it as such is misleading.

I therefore propose to conceptually "decouple" the two series by moving some of the info to the TBV page and twitching this page here and there to clear up any confusion. I can make those edits myself, I just want to know if there is any objection, suggestion, or concern regarding my proposal.

Bye

Deppintosh (talk) 08:40, 7 September 2023 (UTC)