Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-32617252-20171028231750/@comment-734582-20171103085346

Namikazenaruto9 wrote: They are definitely not the same things. Hashirama is using the ability of his strong body just like madara uses his dojutsu. Kurama or any other summon would technically would be addition of foes especially when hashirama didn't use summon to fight back. Nature energy doesn't exist for shits n giggles. It's real energy that exists in the world, and serves a real function. Ranging from the heat and work stored in air, heat stored in the earth, work stored in the flow of water, energy embedded in light. Without that energy, the world would be a cold dead rock. Emphasis on cold.

Sage Mode steals that energy to use it for your own gain, just as Sharingan can steal another's power, either figuratively via Jutsu or literally via Genjutsu. We can go 20 rounds about what is morally worse or whatever, but Sage Mode is by it's very definition not one's own power, it's literally, completely and without ambiguity external power. Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Afterall the summoner of dead army has also subjugated them. Edo Tensei doesn't really require subjugation though. But that's not my point when people use Edo Tensei in fights. My point with Edo Tensei in versus debates is that it usually involves summoning people far more powerful than the summoner and so the debate isn't about the summoner, it's about the summoned.

Typical examples are Orochimaru or Kabuto summoning Edo Madara or Edo Nagato. Namikazenaruto9 wrote: That wasn't the case, Hashirama was clearly frustrated by madara's attempts at destroying the village. He didn't consider killing him until he realized that madara would keep coming back for more. I agree. He realized it moments before he entered Sage Mode, as it was clear just how deep Madara had fallen from everything he'd said at this point.

Namikazenaruto9 wrote: It's quite clear that Hashirama had enough chakra to fool madara with clone. Madara on other hand couldn't keep even basic sharingan activated. Clones don't take that much energy. Even kakashi, perpetually known for his low chakra, can make clones and yet still use his Chidori. Hashirama also didn't use a jutsu for his finisher but a simple sword stab, so why exactly do you think he had a ton of chakra left?

Besides, Madara escaped death with Izanagi, so clearly he had chakra left (that he saved for Izanagi). We know that it costs a ton of chakra to cast.