Talk:Geography

Merge
I believe this page should be merged with Locations. --ShounenSuki (talk 02:25, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Getsugakure
Does Getsugakure actually exist? It seems to be the same case as we had with "Soragakure," which turned out to be the Land of the Sky. --ShounenSuki (talk 18:32, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Countries
Should the list of countries be the complete list, or remain as it is with only major countries? A complete list at this point would be 40 countries, but it is relatively easy to list it out, it would just be messy to look at in the table of contents. Perhaps just a list without the summaries? Simant (talk) 21:47, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the article name "promises" that it's going to be about the geography, it seems to me that it tells us to list all the geography. We could make (two? big and smaller places/canon and non-canon places.....) different articles. If you or someone else feels up for it. Personally, I have so little knowledge of the countries that I don't feel "fit" to do it myself.
 * If we decide to keep the article as a whole, I say we cut the summaries on the smaller or less important countries (canon-wise). ~swooshes off to bed~ ~Hakinu (talk 22:00, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

personally im a fan of breaking up the lists by weather or not they were anime only, it gives the reader a sense of what is relevant to whatyoshiyuki17

515
I know Kishimoto once said he was bad in physics, and the this chapter just showed us he's not good with geography either. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:24, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lets just consider that a map made by the shinobi, who have bad intel in the ocean... S im A nt 00:26, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * He has been perfectly consistent up to this chapter. Something's up and until the raw is out, I suggest not changing anything. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:28, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, other than obvious scale issues, what problems does it have? ZeroSD (talk) 10:39, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * If the Mangastream version is to be believed, the Land of Rivers is now Valley, Iwagakure changed to Stone, with Rock being a small country beneath it, the country north-east of Fire is the Hot Springs, and between this country and the Country of Lightning is the Mist. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:15, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except for Mist, that seems like unusual but mundane translation choices. 'Hot Springs' is almost certainly Yugakure. The Mist one's the one that leaves me the most curious... like if Mist owns that bit of land maybe. ZeroSD (talk) 14:12, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sho, I'm not good with Geography, but isn't that the order of where the villages and countries are? --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 14:19, November 3, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi
 * Mist should be one of the islands south/south-east of Kumo, not the country right next to it. ~SnapperTo 16:18, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh. Thanks Snap. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 16:19, November 3, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

since the village issue has contradictory information, why not just look for another translation as a reference?yoshiyuki17

One possibility is it's saying that Mist has that land in addition to it's islands. ZeroSD (talk) 04:34, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it makes the saying that they had no relations with other villages up till now hard as seeing as Kumo and Kohona has had a war before(twice) and unless they went around that land, it will be hard for Kira to not be affected if that map s right. Umishiru (talk) 13:36, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * They've obviously had clashes with other countries before, we've seen them fight on page, and are members of the Five Kage council. I think no relations just means no formal alliances or the like. ZeroSD (talk) 20:50, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys are mistaking this land between the 'Land of Hot springs' and the 'Land of Lighting' as being related to the Land of Water's Hidden Mist village, apparently this 'Land of Mist' has no relation to the Land of Water (host of the Mist village). This would satisfy all prior data concerning the Hidden Mist village and the 'Land of Water'. --Alastar 89 (talk) 02:31, November 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your argument isn't following your own evidence; "Cloud" is used on the map, not "Lightning". ~SnapperTo 05:11, November 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cloud is inside Lightning....Cloud is the villiage, Lightning is the country, i don't see nothing wrong with my logic. I really hope this conflict of data/location gets resolved quickly. --Alastar 89 (talk) 06:39, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sleepy fans translation is out, and it seems like the Valley is ninja village located in the land of rivers. The Stone village is located in the country between Wind and Earth. Their translation also says that it was Kirigakure.--184.14.197.202 (talk) 19:52, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

If this parcel of land is owned by 'Land of water', then that would mean that they gave permission to foreign forces to access their lands to fight other lands, which is crazy since it would mean damage to your land.--Alastar 89 (talk) 07:13, November 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why would it mean that? It's only a small strip of land that could easily by bypassed by sea. Not to mention that Kirigakure has been involved in wars, which might very well both be explained by having mainland territories and explain why they have them in the first place. Not to mention that military access agreements are not unheard of, even when one of the parties is — supposedly — neutral. —ShounenSuki (talk 07:54, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Chapter 515 Clarifications
I finally have the raw and the situation is as confusing as expected. Chapter 515 does indeed place Kirigakure between Yugakure and the Land of Lightning and adds the and  villages to the map as well. At least, I'm assuming they're villages, as all the other names are those of villages.

I'll be updating the map soon. I would appreciate any tips on how to handle this situation, together with the previous issue of the Land of Waves/Land of Whirlpools. —ShounenSuki (talk 10:53, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * thoughts: wait for the next chapter to mention something that contradicts the contradiction. Perhaps the volume release will fix it? Perhaps the country moved over the past 2 years? Space-time country jutsu... S im A nt 14:20, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at the moment, I'm assuming the spot of land Kiri was placed in in chapter 515 was simply another part of the Land of Water. It may have been called an island nation, but that doesn't completely exclude the possibility of it having some territory on the mainland. If this is true, it is quite likely that the peninsula South-East of the Land of Fire is also a part of the Land of Water. Indeed, it seems like we have to rethink our statement that the Land of Water is the smallest of the Five Shinobi Countries. Including the main island, the various smaller island surrounding it, and the possible mainland territories, the Land of Water would easily rival the other countries in territory size.


 * I vaguely remember it being said that the Land of Rivers had no shinobi village, but I may be mistaken in that. If I am mistaken, there being a Tanigakure in the Land of Rivers is very well possible. I'm sure nothing has ever been mentioned about the country Ishi is located in, so that doesn't cause any problems either. It's a shame Kishimoto-sensei didn't give us the location of the Land of Woods, though.


 * My biggest concern at the moment is the Whirlpool/Waves thing. I'm very hesitant to simply remove any mention of the Land of Waves from the map, but I have so far been unable to find any sources that actually locate this country on the island East of the Land of Fire. The island that, of course, used to hold the Land of Whirlpools. Unfortunately, that is about the only place it could be located. Of course it is still very well possible that the name of the country changed, but once again there is no evidence of this. —ShounenSuki (talk 16:02, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * The version i'm looking at only uses hidden village names; i.e. leaf, sand, stone, cloud. so it makes sense to me that if the area between land of lightning and village hidden in hot springs is part of the land of water, that it would also say "mist" like the rest of the areas on the map, not "water".  It also says "rock" and not "stone" for the area between land of wind and earth.  Could the kanji also mean "rock"?  SkyFlicker (talk) 23:19, November 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I updated the map, adding the new country data and some other details. Please tell me what you think ^^ I haven't yet changed the Whirlpool/Wave part yet, though. Still not sure about that. —ShounenSuki (talk 00:41, November 9, 2010 (UTC)