User talk:North1nj

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RE: Edit revisions
The information is irrelevant and serves little to no purpose regarding 'Kamui'. If it was relevant, it would have been there a long time ago. Based off your reasoning of putting it there, then virtually every other technique would need the same trivia information. Ventillate (talk) 16:34, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Beyond what Ventillate said, the jutsu was already widely known as Kamui before because it was revealed in the third databook, which was published four years before that chapter. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:06, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

I really wish that made any sense. “If it was relevant, it would have been there a long time ago. Based off your reasoning of putting it there, then virtually every other technique would need the same trivia information.” So because someone didn’t put it there before, that automatically means it isn’t relevant? No? Under YOUR logic, there wouldn’t be any point in allowing any future edits unless the information is new because “it would have been there a long time ago.” Omnibender’s explanation makes sense to me now so I’m going to let it go but I’m trying to figure out again is this a unilateral decision? Are you the only person that can decide what appears on the Kamui page? If so, why be difficult about what can appear there? It isn’t irrelevant... it displays an inconsistency in the show that’s worth noting. However, Not to YOU apparently. That’s why I’m asking if it’s just you that gets to decide.

ALSO, the data book saying the technique is called Kamui does not explain why Kakashi nor Obito never referred to it as such until chapter 595.. Y’all are explaining how the information is irrelevant. Y’all are just being stingy
 * Kakashi and Obito not referring to the jutsu by name isn't noteworthy. There are several jutsu that are never called by name in the manga, and are only named in databooks. Or jutsu that are only named a long time after being introduced, like Kotoamatsukami. This doesn't require an explanation, it just is. Also, please observe comment order in talk pages, new replies go at the bottom of the conversation. Also also, remember to sign your comments, just put four tildes ~ at the end of your message. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:08, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

okay so now there’s something wrong with the edit I made on that episode ... what? You said “not specific to the episode, as you yourself noted, properly worded in chapter article”

first of all it’s NOT properly worded or phrased in the chapter. Both the chapter and the episode have the same inconsistency. I don’t understand how y’all can be so petty with these edits. That’s clear trivia North1nj (talk) 05:44, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

re: village in distress episode & corresponding chapter inconsistency
What I meant by the inconsistency not being specific the episode is that this wasn't something that was changed by the episode. You tend to edit information in articles based on what happens in episodes. Episodes are the adaptation of the manga, so how things happen in the manga always come first. The supposed inconsistency you added to the episode isn't an inconsistency because it happened the same way in the manga, it wasn't something that was changed by the anime. Pointing out the real reason why the summoning failed as a trivia is like pointing out Itachi's real motivation for killing the Uchiha when he's introduced, or mentioning that Obito survived and was taken in by Madara right when he's crushed, or that he was Tobi right when he first showed up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:24, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * And once again, new topics in talk pages go at the bottom. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:26, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

its inconsistent to the PLOT of the show sir... the fact that it happened in both the anime AND manga shows that it’s a PLOT inconsistency. The writers of the show changed the reason why the 4th hokage didn’t get reanimated. That’s what I was pointing out. That’s why I tagged the chapter that it also happened in. Because it’s something that’s inconsistent to the overall plot. North1nj (talk) 18:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * And that is as much an inconsistency as as the other reveals. Hiruzen and Orochimaru thought it was one reason, but then it turned out to be another. Or do you want to add the ninshu explanation of chakra to the early chapters and episodes as well, because that's a much greater inconsistency. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:27, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

It’s not though? Sending the plot backwards and explaining the real motivations for why Itachi did what he did or how chakra came to be are not plot inconsistencies. They explained in the show why Itachi lied. They built and explained the “inconsistency” into the actual storyline. They never said Orochimaru or Hiruzen “thought” anything. They both explicitly said that fourth wasn’t reanimated bc of Hiruzen and then the show gave a different reason for why he didn’t reanimate and never explained why Hiruzen thought what he thought. Lol what makes it more inconsistent is the fact that Hiruzen was LOOKING at Minato when he performed the Reaper Death Seal (episode: Thank You). Something else they showed when they went back in time to when the Nine tails attacked the village. North1nj (talk) 19:54, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

No. First, you keep saying the show gave a different reason. Manga and anime did the same thing, so there's no difference between them. At least this is what I'm understanding you're arguing when you say "the show". Only difference between them is that in the anime, the kanji for "four" is visible in the coffin that doesn't work. Noting things in both the chapter and anime article is also redundant, specially when thing to be noted isn't a difference between them. Orochimaru and Hiruzen took what happened at face value and assigned an explanation to that, that the audience took at face value because the characters did. When Orochimaru resurrects them during the war, he did research the Uzumaki sealing jutsu, so now he knows better (he had no idea what the seal was during the fight), which is the entire point of going to acquire the mask, so he can resurrect the Hokage proper this time after releasing their souls. Whatever explanation or retcon or whatever you want to call it, saying that the chapter and episode were written to make the audience believe x or y is wrong because it implies prior knowledge of the future reason it didn't work and misdirected the audience. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:57, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

If you think that I'm arguing a DIFFERENCE between the anime and manga then you're not understanding me. Most of the things I note are inconsistencies with the entire plot of the show. And whats funny about the last sentence of your paragraph there is that that is exactly what creators did. They wrote episode 249 "Thank you" and the corresponding chapter and put Hiruzen outside the barrier when Minato performed the Reaper Death Seal. So like I said in the last parapraph i wrote you, He MUST have known that Minato's soul was encumbered because that was an episode dictating what occurred in the PAST BEFORE he fought Orochimaru and used the Reaper for himself. So once again, that would be a PLOT inconsistency... Not a difference between the anime and manga. Thats not what im trying to note. Im noting the inconsistency in the overall plot. The same thing Im noting when hashirama gave sasuke that jutsu. It was never revealed in the plot what it was.. even though it happened in both the anime and manga.. so its a plot inconsistency.. based on the fact that they never revealed the reason they even brought it up.North1nj (talk) 01:33, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

You keep saying things wrong. You keep saying "the creators" when talking about the anime, like a collective writer group. They didn't write a thing. That's how you come across, which is why I wrote out what I did, because I wanted to confirm what you were trying to say. Kishimoto wrote the manga chapter, and the studio adapted it, and no one in the anime wrote anything for that. There's no anime original content there to be assigned to another creator. What you're not getting is that while Hiruzen watching Minato use the seal is set chronologically before he fought Orochimaru, those events were written only years later in real life, and the things that were written later can and do explain why Orochimaru and Hiruzen thought what they did. Hiruzen might have known enough of the Dead Demon Consuming Seal to know Minato's soul had been sealed, but not necessarily enough about Impure World Reincarnation to know that it couldn't overcome that seal. Orochimaru's explanation of the research was as much to the reader as it was to Hiruzen. You keep harping on an in-universe inconsistency, when in fact there is none, which is further explained by out-of-universe context. The Sasuke and Hashirama thing is also not a plot inconsistency. Sure, it was set up, but not bringing that up merely makes that an abandoned, dangling thread, not a plot inconsistency. Your mislabelling of things gives rise to most of the non-issues you raise. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

me saying the creators is so far beside the point. What difference does it make to the point of what I’m saying that there is 1 writer or 300? The fact remains that it was never explained why Hiruzen thought he stopped the revival when he saw him use the Reaper seal himself. It’s obvious that the thank you episode was written years later. But in the writing of that episode, it was known that Hiruzen thought he stopped the revival. So why would they place him outside the barrier and have him watch the seal be activated and act like he knew what it was? When Hiruzen and Enma saw him weave the signs they knew it was the Reaper. They said it in the episode and corresponding chapter. What out of universe context explains this inconsistency? They never gave a reason for why he thought he stopped the reanimation. Hiruzen knew while he was fighting Orochimaru what the cost of using that Jutsu was: his soul. So he had to have known that Minato’s soul was encumbered too. “Thank you” being written years after this only proves my point further. They knew when they wrote that episode that they had Hiruzen in the prior episode making it seem like he stopped the revival when he should’ve already known that he didn’t have to do anything to stop the revival. And they never explained why he thought what he thought. What you said about him not knowing enough about the reanimation Jutsu is a baseless assumption. They never talked about what he did and didn’t know about the reanimation Jutsu. In any way you decide to look at it, it is inconsistent with the plot to first make it seem as if Hiruzen stopped the reanimation, THEN explain that that’s not what really happened without providing a valid reason for why he thought what he thought especially when he saw Minato use the Jutsu that he knows encumbers the soul North1nj (talk) 00:50, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Funny enough, I can debunk your point about Hiruzen not knowing enough about the Reanimation Jutsu to know that it couldn’t overcome the seal. The fact that he used it in the fight against Orochimaru in the first place !!! Why would he use it if he didn’t know that it would work? Obviously he knew the reanimation Jutsu couldn’t overcome the seal bc he used it to seal the first two hokages!!... North1nj (talk) 02:55, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

This is frustrating. You keep bringing up the points that explain why there is no contradiction, yet use those to say there is one. Hiruzen and Enma had to be outside the barrier because seeing Minato use the seal is what allows him to know this is the specific seal Minato used, just that. Even if he already knew the hand seals for it before, seeing Minato weave them is what allows him to say for certain against Orochimaru that this is the seal the Fourth used. Even in the chapter, Hiruzen is uncertain he's the one who stopped it or how. Official translation is "I may have somehow stopped the third" (emphasis mine). We have the what, even if not quite the why or the how. W know he didn't know enough about Impure World Reincarnation because if he did, he'd know there was no point in trying to physically attack and destroy the reincarnated Hokage like he did with his jutsu and explosive tags, and would have gone straight to trying to seal their souls from the start. Him knowing that Minato's soul is sealed and not knowing enough about IWR means he can't be 100% sure that IWR can't overcome the Dead Demon Consuming Seal. My point about the other chapter being written years later is that, even if there was an inconsistency or retcon, that would have been created by the information from the later chapters, and as such would be an inconsistency of those later chapters, not the earlier one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:39, 28 February 2021 (UTC)