Talk:Tobi

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New information
Kishimoto: Tobi’s Identity Revealed Within Next Few Weeks Naruto fans, get excited! From Shonen Jump 35 comes a brand new interview with the legendary creator of Naruto, Masashi Kishimoto! The interview consists of 5 questions in regards to what’s currently and will soon be happening in the great manga known as Naruto. Scans of the interview are included, check them out below! Question: The legendary ninja is now immortal, does Madara Uchiha have any weakness? Kishimoto-sensei: All people, even the strongest ones, have weaknesses, however, Madara does not. So we have to pose the question, where and how will the battle go from here!? Please stay excited and wait with eager anticipation to find out!! Question: What is the connection between Tobi and Madara? Kishimoto-sensei: Both ninja know one another. What kind of relationship do they have? Well, that will be gradually revealed as the story progresses!! Question: Will Tobi’s identity be revealed in the future…!? Kishimoto-sensei: Yes, it will. In fact, Tobi’s identity should be revealed within the next couple of weeks so until then please continue with your predictions!! Question: How will the story of Naruto and Sasuke continue from this point on? Kishimoto-sensei: They will meet again, this time during the war. Just wait until you see what is happening then! Question: We will soon be entering into the climax of the Fourth Shinobi World War arc, please tell us some of the key points that will be coming soon! Kishimoto-sensei: Everything from here on out is key and everything is just going to get more and more electrifying! All your favorite characters will shine brightly so please continue to enjoy Naruto as the great Shinobi World War reaches its climax!

This was taken off Facebook and it might help this wiki. Sam (BAZINGA) 18:05, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Talkpage is used for discussions regarding improvement of the article itself, and related things. This:
 * there's nothing to discuss as it's no new information, just "soon"
 * it's like a forum post


 * I hope you are aware, that not a damn thing was revealed. Hell the entire interview, if it's real, could be summed up as "Wait and see!".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 17:24, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Someone took it from the Shonen Jump magazine thing. Sam (BAZINGA) 17:29, July 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Um... Cerez. This is the interview. --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 22:08, July 31, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

I don't think it should be here, are we going to put up a trivia "Tobi about to be revealed SOOON!!!!!!!!!!!" or something? Or talking about nothing because there's no information to discuss?--Elveonora (talk) 18:40, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

Considering the recent vandalism, I was going to protect the page either way. If sh*t keeps hitting the fan once those chapters come out, I'll extend the protection. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:16, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, what's up with the locking the page? So what, now only the admins can edit his page? You can't make it to where you have to be a member to edit? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:00, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Current protection level requires one to be an auto-confirmed users. Basically, you need to have enough edits in Wikia to prove you're an actual user, that's usually 10 edits. We recently requested the central Wiki to make it so that would be 10 edits here, because we have a history of people with accounts made in other wikis come here to vandalize. I have no idea why you wouldn't be able to edit, seeing you already have 100+ edits in this wiki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:31, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

It won't let me edit this nor the front page for some reason. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 03:08, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

How do I factor into this? Also, Kishimoto cannot talk like that in real life... can he? "Yes his identity will be revealed pleasecontinuewithyourpredictions THANK YOU VERY MUCH!" is what it sounds like in my head =\ Any way, also not for mentioning any of this, we don't do spoilers either way here.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:07, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Well, how will it help this wiki and improve the article?? akz!  15:56, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think this info may prevent some people from flooding this talkpage with theories about Tobi's identity... At least for some time. Abe 16:12,8/1/2012

Not that I need to edit now, but can an admin grant me access to this and the front page? I am unable to manage either articles despite having 100+ edits. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 17:38, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

There we go. Gracias. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 17:46, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, seriously? Why the hell do I keep getting removed from the auto confirmed users group? I have 162 edits.... --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:05, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that's actually possible, at least to my knowledge. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:27, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

I was listed as an auto confirmed user yesterday, and now I am not and I can't edit certain pages. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 03:52, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

What error do you exactly get? -- http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (Talk to me) 12:36, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

The way Tobi is listed as a Kiri ninja - misleading?
The way he is listed, and the fact that he is marked with the Kiri symbol in the jutsu he is listed as a user makes it look like he was an official Kiri ninja or that his origins are from that village, which is wrong. He was controlling the Mizukage back then, but he wasn't an official Kiri ninja. He was what Kabuto was to the villages that he spied, an intruder. Shouldn't there be written something like (unofficial) or something on his page, and also get the Kiri symbol removed from the lists he is included as a user? Patsoumas1995 (talk) 13:11, August 8, 2012 (UTC)

He was "the Mizukage" there for some time, so theoretically was a Kiri ninja? 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 14:17, August 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) 1 Rule of Narutopedia: Take anything Tobi says with a grain of salt because he is slanderous and deceitful. This includes his origin, so for some unknown reason, he's more of a Kirigakure shinobi than Konohagakure. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:29, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * O que la... Tobi is not listed as a Konoha nin because he's not Madara, how the fart are we going to list him as a Konoha nin when you don't know who he is? Even going with "he's Izuna", he's still not be associated with the village, because he died before its founding. Think things through man. That being said, you can simply read his article to see why he's affiliated with the village.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:57, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

For the sake of preventing a redundant argument, I'm not going to say he's Madara. My point was that he knew exactly where the Uchiha meeting place was, as well as the Naka Shrine, including the Valley of the End He also has an in depth knowledge of the history of Konoha's founding and its people, such as the Uchiha, the Aburame, etc., whereas all he did in Kirigakure was manipulate Yagura and in turn, become the "real" Mizukage.

I was never taking into the account he was Madara nor Izuna, just the actions and knowledge he has displayed. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:07, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup... That all definitely makes him a Konoha shinobi؟--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 21:36, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

It does make him more of a Konoha shinobi than Kiri, yup. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 03:27, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Whether or not Tobi has any relation to Konoha or not is a bit off topic. I think it's a valid question as his involvement with the village seems to have been largely secret not to mention invasive. Perhaps being listed as the "Secret Leader of Kirigakure" in the Occupation field and what information is contained in the article is enough. I could go either way though. Arrancar79 (talk) 03:43, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Just chucking in my 2 cents worth here but why is it that we list tobi as being affiliated with Kiri but not Orochimaru with Sunagakure? The situation is exactly the same, they both Manipulated/Acted as their respective kage. --Kiriako (talk) 15:16, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

I guess i will add Orochimaru as being affiliated with Suna then --Kiriako (talk) 09:29, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Orochimaru allied himself with Suna and pretended to be the Kazekage for the duration of one mission. Tobi acted as the de facto Mizukage for who knows how long. Big difference. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:51, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

"For who knows how long." And for all you know it was the same duration as Orochimaru? They both acted as a kage regardless for how long. I personally dont think Tobi should be listed as affiliated with Kiri because its confusing for readers but if he is going to be left as such, i think Orochimaru should be affiliated with Suna aswell.

First of all you can tell the durations between Orochimaru pretending to be the Kazekage and Tobi controlling Yagura to be very different. It doesn't really make sense to me, to compare Orochimaru's actions to those of Tobi who controlled Yagura, for what has to be a much more substantial time than the former.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:23, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru only posed as the Kazekage long enough to order the Suna-nin to work with Otogakure in order to invade Konoha.
 * How is this known? - The corpse of the real Kazekage, though in a bad state was still a recognisable body. That brings it down to less than months, if even weeks.
 * Yagura ruled Kirigakure for a substantially longer time.
 * How is that known? - He was there long enough to have a "reign" and give the village the reputation of being the Bloody Mist Village. Now more than likely that was all Tobi (judging from the type of person Yagura seemed to be in his encounter with Naruto).

Orochimaru was affiliated with Suna regardless of how you look at it. I guess i wont get anywhere arguing with the head honchos so i'll just drop it :D--Kiriako (talk) 14:33, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

If you choose to give up on your argument, the people against it won't complain. Though from what you say, every time a shinobi undertakes a mission especially as a spy/covertly, then they should be affiliated with said village which would make Kabuto even more lost.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 14:39, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * If anything, nothing is really lost not affiliating Tobi with Kiri to be honest. Regardless is regardless, he was manipulating the Mizukage from the shadows and wasn't truly affiliated with the village. I believe Tobi's only true affiliation was to Akatsuki.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 14:45, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Actually im saying exactly the opposite, every time a shinobi undertakes a mission covertly they should not be affiliated with the said village. I only brought up Orochimaru as an example of a ninja who was kind of in the same situation as Tobi but isnt listed as being affiliated, there should be some consistency in deciding for or against. --Kiriako (talk) 15:22, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well said, I have to agree with TheUltimate3. Arrancar79 (talk) 04:22, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Giant image
I never really understood why Tobi's image is huge (with unnecessary scenario as background). Why we don't crop it?--Spcmn (talk) 17:18, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Because it's been sysop protected. And fyi, it's not huge, it's small. If it was huge, as you put it, then it would fill the whole page =.= --Speysider Talk Page 17:25, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Then why is protected? Isn't supposed to be a free encyclopedia? Also, don't play the mentally retarded with me, you know what I'm talking about. If you take a look at others characters (Kiba, Iruka, Rock Lee, Izumo), you'll see that their images are focused at their faces without having a whole scenario.--Spcmn (talk) 20:53, August 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1)It's locked because some articles have serious problems with vandals, massive conflicts of opinions, and general unpleasantness associated with them, hence the locks.
 * 2)There is honestly nothing wrong with the current image, but if you can find one that is closer, and doesn't show his Sharingan (big important part) then knock yourself out.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:57, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Spcmn is referring to the infobox image, I believe (by cropping it, the image would look "bigger"). I wanted to crop it a long time ago, but as it was protected I didn't bother to pursue it since it's a more "cosmetic" oriented issue rather than one of dire necessity.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 21:28, August 9, 2012 (UTC)

Fought Hashirama...
He claims to Kabuto (who is aware of the man's false identity) that he fought Hashirama and obtained his flesh in one of their fights. Chapter 512, page 9--Elveonora (talk) 03:13, August 10, 2012 (UTC)

Can't edit the page, really no voices on this matter?--Elveonora (talk) 22:30, August 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * You mean inside their base? He may have just been keeping up his cover in case someone was listening in. *shrug* Skarn22 (talk) 00:42, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Top secret underground base, only he-Tobi, Kabuto and Zetsu were there (not counting Gedo dude and Hashi plant) he clearly stated in front of Kabuto to have fought Hashirama--Elveonora (talk) 01:15, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

Omni, Cerez... anyone?--Elveonora (talk) 17:14, August 17, 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, and say that this was Kishimoto not wanting to reveal so early that Tobi wasn't really Madara, at least to the readers. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:14, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know... dunno if Kishi mixes his reasons with canonical reasons, like he could have simply skipped the statement. I prefer the canonical reason, because we as the readers, are supposed to learn and understand what's going on in the manga, not Kishi's head. And by the latter, Kabuto was long aware that Tobi isn't Madara, so the statement would be false. And if you take "Kishi's reason" above that, then that basically translates into "Madara Uchiha created Hashi Living Clone" and if that's the case, we should state that in his article : ) See? It goes both ways... there's a lot of confusion between the actions those by hand of Tobi and Madara... if we take it as a fact that Tobi persuaded Yahiko to create Akatsuki and gave Nagato the Rinnegan, even though he was "I, Uchiha Madara" in that instance (false) and it's still being listed despite the statements not being very credible, I think we should take "I fought Hashirama" above these two as in this case, he wasn't speaking of himself as another person, at least not to us readers.--Elveonora (talk) 13:45, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

The sake of continuity could work here. Mayhaps Kabuto knows more to their story that we do currently- that Tobi and Madara are not physically one in the same. I'd assume this might be revealed down the line, the storyline is still open to that.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:58, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Right, but we either decide upon one or the other, no nitpicking and bias. If we take it as a fact (other Tobi's statement, reflected in his article) then we should also take this one, like: "According to Tobi, he also had fought Hashirama and has received his cells after a battle" or cut the speculative Yahiko and Nagato statements and paste them to Madara's article. I doubt Kishi would do such a thing, especially when it was made clear that the manga is narrated from the in-universe character's perspective, not his.--Elveonora (talk) 14:21, August 18, 2012 (UTC)

Further Changes
Before everyone goes into crazy edit mode, I don't think it should be stated that Tobi has any connection to Obito until it is clearly stated and his name is actually spoken. There could have very well been another Uchiha in the vicinity during the war. For now, I believe it should just be stated that he acquired the eye during the war at the Kannabi Bridge and nothing more. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 04:48, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Who said Tobi had a connection with Obito? I at least hope none of the community will be adding that. From the looks of it, Tobi simply stole Obito's eye, nothing more.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 04:49, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

I meant him even possessing Obito's eye. People shouldn't even be using the name "Obito" until his name is explicitly stated, no? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 04:51, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * But the Kanabi Bridge is the connection to Obito. Obito or not, his eye is without a doubt Obito's. That isn't speculation, its fact. The only Uchiha on the site was Obito. One of his eyes went to Kakashi and the other became Tobi's. While we can't state that Tobi is Obito just yet, it is obvious to everyone present that Tobi's Sharingan is Obito's other Sharingan. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:51, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Outside of "Tobi acquired Obito's eye during SWWIII at the Kanabi Bridge" I don't believe anything else is cannon at the moment. But regardless, the eye is definitely Obito's.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 04:57, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * I disagree, Ten Tailed. It was a war, and the Uchiha are known for being very powerful combatants as well as have an appetite for war, so there could have been more in the vicinity at some point. In addition, it makes no sense as to how he could have claimed a crushed Sharingan and actually make use of it when Danzo did the same to Shisui's and there was nothing Tobi could do.

Regardless, the name Obito has not yet been mentioned. There's no point in jumping to conclusions by using a name that hasn't been explicitly stated when pertaining to Tobi. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 05:01, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * So, what you're suggesting to me is that maybe, somehow, there was another Uchiha who just happened to have a Sharingan that just happened to have an ability that just happened to be linked to Kakashi's Kamui which was born in Obito's eyes? Also, no, there were no other Uchiha in the vicinity. Kakashi's team was the only team sent to the area. Minato was miles away from them fighting with Konoha's main forces and teleported to them, so the nearest Konoha troops were miles away from Kanabi Bridge. The eye is Obito's. Period. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:05, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * There was also a flashback of Kakashi in the cemetery, where we know he always goes to visit Obito. Unless there is a massive diversion for a revelation of the calibre of Tobi is, and then Tobi isn't Madara, all signs point to the eye being Obito's. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:07, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * No. What I'm suggesting is not to jump to conclusions by adding implied information (like with Tobi's Uchiha origin, which I can understand for the moment) when virtually anything is possible within a fictional universe.


 * That flashback was relating to Tobi's statement of "making excuses in front of graves" and had little to nothing to do with his explanation of acquiring his Sharingan. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 05:09, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Obito and Tobi names are anagram except for one letter. was obito quoting kakashi talking to tobi when he said "I told you, you shouldn't open your mouth so easily"??Holyn (talk) 05:11, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Uchiha Suraka: No, Omnibender is not stating that. He is stating that all of the flashbacks and dialogue that surrounded the time where Kakashi questioned where Tobi got the eye related to Obito. The Kanabi Bridge is where Obito died and where Tobi and Kakashi got a Sharingan, the regret Tobi keeps shooting at Kakashi is the regret he has over Obito's death, we've all known this, and the grave Kakashi is standing by is Obito's. Since the start of the series, we've known that Kakashi does this. For this to suddenly be some random Uchiha's eye makes no logical sense. This chapter has all fingers pointing at it at least being Obito's eye. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:13, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

That is incorrect, to whomever said Obito's Sharingan was crushed and could not be retrieved by Tobi. From what we've seen, in the image of Obito being crushed, it is not shown that the boulder crushed his face. If such a thing happened and his Sharingan was crushed, then that would also mean Obito's face would've also been crushed, subsequently so would his brain, meaning he would've died on the spot. He would not have time to discuss with Kakashi and tell Rin to transplant the eye to Kakashi. Meaning, from simple logic, it can be easily inferred that Obito's other Sharingan eye was still functional. The only thing that we know for sure was that his body was crushed, and body parts in Naruto have been shown to be replaced so many times, it's not even funny. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 05:14, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Naruto has never replaced his body parts Holyn (talk) 05:18, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * He's referring to Naruto the series, not the person. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:19, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just like how all five fingers were pointed towards Tobi being Madara. Is there a reason it can't just be stated that he simply acquired the eye during the Third Shinobi World War at the Kannabi Bridge so we aren't assuming? Because that's what you're doing if you even mention the name "Obito." --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 05:21, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * You have a point there. Even though in this case from the evidences shown, it is the only sensible conclusion that it is obito's eye.Holyn (talk) 05:25, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, its not assuming. Obito was the only Uchiha at the bridge. The war was the war Obito died in. And you're again wrong. From the beginning, there was always doubt that Tobi was Madara. He was alive long after Madara should've been dead. Many characters commented on this. This literally puts Tobi at the site of Obito's death during the war that he died. We already know that he gave away one Sharingan. If Tobi himself isn't Obito, it is 100% fact that his eye is from Obito. Tobi never gave any solid proof for being Madara. He just had a claim. We have evidence that it is Obito, as if the flashbacks and dialogue didn't point more towards it. Even Kakashi looks shaken. That isn't just random events. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:26, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, I should mention that Tobi said he got the eye "during the battle at the Kanabi Bridge". Not before. Not after. Please tell me who else besides the shinobi Minato slaughtered and Kakashi's team was there? No one. The manga even shows this. Sorry. Its Obito's eye. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:29, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * So you're saying there's absolutely zero possibility of another Uchiha being around the Kannabi Bridge during a world war? This was obviously after Obito died anyways as Tobi was nowhere to be seen, meaning there was time for him to get there, meaning there was time for others, namely Uchiha, to report to a specific landmark. Yes, you are assuming when you come up with a name that has not been mentioned, no matter how likely or not.


 * Oh, and you want to talk about evidence, buddy? I will give you evidence. Tobi's hair resembled Madara's, Tobi has a fan that is nearly identical to Madara's, Tobi possesses Hashirama's DNA and a living clone of Hashirama in his hideout, and Madara also acquired Hashirama's DNA at some point. Tobi has intimate knowledge about Madara and his brother, Tobi evidently looks like Madara as Kisame recognized him after being recruited by him and questioning his identity, and was well aware he was long dead. Tobi's plan coincides with Madara's, Tobi is able to manipulate Kurama with a Sharingan, just like Madara. Jiraiya, Itachi, Minato, and Nagato, all very intelligent shinobi, speculated Madara was behind the Nine-Tails Attack on Konoha/that Tobi was Madara. Do. Not. talk to me about evidence when the only thing you have is that Tobi acquired "Obito's Sharingan" at the Kannabi Bridge. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 05:36, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Allow me to put this in perspective for you. There was zero. Count it. Zero physical evidence that Tobi was Madara. Tobi's hair most certainly does not look like Madara's. Even that suggestion is ludicrous. Madara's hair is long, Tobi's is more like Naruto's. We didn't know Madara himself had Hashirama's DNA until after it was revealed that Madara and Tobi were not, in fact, one and the same, so that is no evidence at all. The only reason Kisame referred to Tobi as Madara is because Tobi himself claimed that he was Madara. Kisame had never seen the real Madara for himself. Tobi and Madara are stated to have known each other, thus why their plans are similar, but we found out during Madara's fight with the Kage that he lived after his fight with Hashirama, so it is plausible to see how they could've met.


 * Now that that argument has been picked apart. Allow me to answer your initial question. Yes. I am telling you that there is absolutely no chance. None. Nada. Zitch. Zero. That there was any other Uchiha at Kanabi Bridge during the battle. Read the manga chapter in which it occured. I just did. The only ninja present were those of the Hidden Rock, Kakashi, Rin, Obito, and later on, Minato. That's it. All. No one else. Tobi claims he got the Sharingan during the battle. Kakashi also got his eye during the battle. I'll let you figure the rest out. We all have. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:45, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

No one said there was no possibility but from the way I understand these dōjutsu work, that person would have had to have been a close relative of Obito's i.e. parents or his sibling in order for that to happen. Even then would their dōjutsu share the same other dimension? That is more improbable that Tobi digging through rubble and taking Obito's eye. All of this is just starting to feel like you're trying to further your own agenda. Ten-Tailed Fox, I'd also like to advise against continuing that discussion with Uchiha Saraku, you can check the previous discussions and archives and you'll see that you're starting the never-ending discussion again...--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 05:48, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * No worries. I planned on ending it with that. There is nothing more to be said. The facts are present. Nothing can change them. I'm not trying to say he is Obito, even though I do think that now more than ever. I'm just saying it is highly improbable that his eye is anything but Obito's. I'll leave it at that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 05:53, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Rofl. Tobi's hair didn't look like Madara's during the Uchiha Clan Massacre/Kirikagure? Hahahahaha, ok. Moving on...Tobi definitely had Hashirama's DNA prior to revealing it. That's how at least White Zetsu was conceived, and weas around during at least part 1. You're currently at 0 for 2. Kisame was skeptical about his identity and Tobi then stepped out of the shadows to reveal himself. That is right before Kisame interrupts and bit off his tongue and committed suicide, and that is why Kisame refers to him as Mizukage and Madara in chapter 404 after removing his mask. Oh, and yeah, he had no idea what Madara looked like. There's just a massive statue of him outside the Fire Country that no one has seen. You're really not doing that well in this argument right now. No explanation for being able to control Kurama? I thought so. No explanation for having an in depth knowledge about Madara and Izuna? What a surprise. You have a point that he said during the war, but to be able to grow that much and fight on par with his teacher in just a year after his supposed death is illogical and unreasonable. No matter what is said, Obito's name was not used in this chapter.

@Cerez Kamui is stated to be usable by any Mangekyo user if they train their chakra enough. This completely contradicts Kakashi's statement about only his and Tobi's jutsu being connected. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 06:03, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Well look at that lol I will admit that I totally forgot how persons obtain Kamui, however, that does not mean that because everyone can potentially use it, that they all share the same dimension. Given that there are a lot of unknowns in the situation, we cannot just assume out of convenience that another Uchiha happened to be there, else why go through all that trouble of getting the eye at the kannabi bridge when he has a lab full of Sharingans he could just "train" and acquired Kamui.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 06:16, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

The main point I was trying to get across is that it is unnecessary to call out names that haven't been mentioned when there are limitless possibilities in this fictional series, regardless of how likely it may be. Is that not a reasonable conclusion? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 06:25, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm new here so please bear with me...If Tobi's right eye is Obito's sharingan, then how do you explain his left eye before he got Nagato's Rinnegan? Before he got the Rinnegan he had a set of sharingan, both left and right. Then he lost his left eye after that battle with Konan. Where did it come from? Did he get it from another unknown Uchiha?George762 (talk) 08:23, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tobi could have gotten that Sharingan from anywhere or it was his. He has a lab full of eyes and makes it a hobby to collect "good eyes". That eye and the right one could be totally unrelated, as he easily sacrificed it for Izanagi.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 08:38, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

So then the "Obito" angle is still under speculation. For all we know Tobi could have just saw the battle at Kannabi Bridge. And apparently Tobi is not the most honest guy. He's been lying throughout the series, one example is him being Madara Uchiha, we all know that was a lie.George762 (talk) 08:58, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Aye. Tobi's identity, at least for some of us, is still up for grabs.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:00, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

If I may, I think I have a related statement to this discussion, since the speculation is very high for Tobi having Obito's right eye to compliment Kakashi's left, and the differing effects of Kamui and the Space-time migration one pulling you into the void (STM) and the other seemingly pushing you into it (Kamui) there would seem to be a rather strong hint towards a uniform parent technique if say Obito ever obtained his mangekyou on his own and harnessed both techniques with his eyes intact, since it is shown that they share a pocket space, and we have seen evidence that a user can use their mangekyou technique (Danzou with Kotoamatsukami) without transforming their eye into the mangekyou state meaning that Tobi just had more time to master it than Kakashi (that and Tobi's body alterations). If this was placed in the wrong place here then feel free to move it, just placing an idea out there. --"Hello, I'm the Doctor; Basically...... Run." (Appointments?) 09:49, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Relevant to this entire discussion I don't feel like reading.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:28, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have also never see Danzō actually use Kotoamatsukami, for one the eye was covered at the time and two we, the readers were only made aware of it after he had done so by Ao-thief-chan. For the time being I also believe it can be left as if, if we turn out to be wrong, we'll just edit accordingly. However I will say that Kishimoto continues to throw us curve balls every week and will more than likely continue until we find out who Tobi is.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk)

Obviously Obito's eye, but surely not him being Obito, the page should be locked because I smell Obitards. Also Tobi's hair is indeed identical to Madara's, just short. Assuming the man controlling Yagura was Tobi and not Madara. I even had a comparison picture saved somewhere of "Tobi" controlling Yagura shown from behind, the same for Edo Madara and the hair is just like if Kishi has copied and pasted it there. Also Tobi having Hashirama's DNA/cells is not confirmed, I think the article should be reworded because we are yet to see any Wood Release, but he sure has some SENJU DNA (Perfect usage of Izanagi) not to mention he may be even a Senju with a Sharingan, lol.--Elveonora (talk) 21:23, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I should point out that his current hairstyle looks closer to Obito's than it ever did to Madara's. And besides, hairstyle as evidence is circumstantial at best, because anyone can get a haircut... As for having Hashirama's cells, he does appear to have them since he has that, uh, clone statue thing in his base. It's true that we haven't seen him use wood release, but if what he said about Izanagi was true then he must be capable of it on some level. Perhaps Zetsu is a product of his wood release. /speculation Skarn22 (talk) 01:26, August 15, 2012 (UTC)

If you will, allow me to maybe shed some light onto this subject. it seems that Mangekyō's work on the Snowflake Rule. For those of you who don't know what that is, its that 2 snowflakes will never ever share the same pattern or in this case Sharingans (unless the Sharingan are from the same person then they have the same pattern).

And if you look at Kakashi's Mangekyō and Tobi's Mangekyō you can see that they are in fact the same pattern meaning that they would have to be from the same person, there is no other way of getting around it Tobi's Mangekyō is Obito's. The patterns are the same and they share the same power and same pocket dimension and such so it has to be from the same person.

As for Tobi being of Uchiha blood (I saw this kinda being argued here as well) I remember in the Anime and Manga that it was said that Kakashi keeps his Sharingan covered because he is not of Uchiha blood and therefore it has some ill effects on him and uses his chakra if he keeps it uncovered. However, if you Look at Tobi he has always had one eye uncovered and that eye had a Sharingan in it (Itachi kept his on all the time even though he could have turned it off) if Tobi wasnt of Uchiha blood wouldn't he have to keep it covered like Kakashi as it would have the same effects on him? that would make logical sense unless he somehow has unlimited chakra.

Now I am not saying that he is Obito (I don't even know why that would be a discussion; we saw Obito die right before our eyes and I don't think clones or dead souls last for as long as it would have to be from that battle till now in the story [close to 15-20 Years if I did my Math right]). I am saying however that with the evidence Kishimoto has presented us with it would make sense that its Obito's eye and that he is of Uchiha blood even if Obito's name has not officially been said by anyone about it the evidence we have of them sharing the same pattern (all other Mangekyōs up to this point have had the same pattern if they belonged to the same person) so we can conclude that it's Obito's eye without it having to be mentioned.Lordofninjas1 (talk) 03:29, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Bug
Once Kurama broke free, Tobi placed the Tailed Beast under his control and ordered it to destroy Konaha.GothicWarrior  (Dyskusja)  16:09, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * ? --Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 16:38, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * ??? What do you mean?? akz! ANBU Symbol.svg 16:40, August 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * He is trying to say that "Konoha" is misspelled as "Konaha" --74.170.139.46 (talk) 18:27, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Time Line
It's just a minor thing but didn't the thing about Tobi manipulating the 3rd Mizukage happen before the Konoha attack? :O FirePit (talk) 21:44, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't really know when that happened, it's just last because that is the latest thing with no clear indication of placement in timeline to be added. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:48, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * oh ok FirePit (talk) 21:51, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

It happened before the clan massacre. Zabuza wasn't enrolled at academy when he killed his comrades. -- The Goblin  22:04, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Actually we do know, Tobi controlled Yagura after the attack on Konoha (in case it was really him) as Zabuza massacred academy students during Yagura's reign and that was 11 years before the start of the series.--Elveonora (talk) 22:22, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Background
"his true identity concealed with only a Sharingan seen behind his mask. " shouldn't this be changed? we have seen his other sharingan and his rinnegan...Holyn (talk) 15:11, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Sharingan
In the Sharingan subheading under the Dōjutsu heading on the Tobi page, shouldn't there be something about how his right Sharingan belonged to Obito Uchiha?--
 * I believe the information is already represented in his article.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:48, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's eyes
Sorry, I am new to this thing, and don't know how to add on to a previous topic, but there was much debate about Tobi having Obito's eyes or that of another Uchiha. One key piece of evidence missed out was that Killer B asked Kakashi how two jutsu could share the same dimension. Furthermore, Kakashi theorized that Tobi was using a single technique which was used to transport his limbs out of harm's way, but when Kakashi used Kamui it moved any attack to that same dimension.

From what I understand about the author, he is not someone who randomly adds in characters at critical moments, and Tobi did say he got his eye from the Kanabi Bridge battle during the war. The only known Uchiha there at the time was Obito. The fact that each Sharingan (I'm assuming) is unique to each user, would mean that the techniques also vary from user to user; e.g Susanoo. For Tobi and Kakashi to use a technique that uses the same principles and dimensions would therefore mean that the two eyes would have to have a link. As such, to me at least, Tobi's eye is Obito's other eye.

So now we have seen Tobi using the Mangekyō Sharingan. How should the respective pages be edited. Should we put it down for Obito as well or not?

Appearance
Should Tobi's skin color be mentioned in the "Appearance" section? If so should it be added that his skin color is darker in the anime than the manga?--Trogdor247 (talk) 22:42, August 19, 2012 (UTC)

It isn't.--Elveonora (talk) 01:43, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

I know it is not i was wondering if it should be added. --Trogdor247 (talk) 01:46, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

No characters have the exact color tone same in anime and manga. Tobi's in the anime isn't any noticeably different, unless you have some images to prove me wrong--Elveonora (talk) 02:11, August 20, 2012 (UTC)

Mangekyō Sharingan pics?
Since it official now that Tobi have the Mangekyō Sharingan shouldn't we add a pic of it just like we did for Kakashi? if anyone can find a good pic that it.--Tchad1 (talk) 13:14, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Interesting Thought
Now, I'm not saying or speculating that Tobi is Obito, but for the sake of a question that's been on my mind for some time, if they are the same... do we merge the two articles together?--Megiddo09 (talk) 13:50, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

No.--Elveonora (talk) 13:54, August 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * So blunt. If they were the same we would have no choice I would think.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:55, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually if they are, which I will doubt until the appointed day, we would have no choice but to merge. It's the same thing we did with Madara.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:01, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

i have a question it not speculation tho just a simple question .. Tobi told Kakashi, ill show you the power of the real Kamui not the one from your borrowed power. so my question is, if his eye is borrowed from obito like we think .. how can he even pretend to show Kakashi the real power of Kamui ? --Tchad1 (talk) 13:59, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe that was an attempt to allude to Tobi's blood lineage, not the fact that he took the eye from an Uchiha.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:01, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

ok i was ust curious but thank for this answer Cerez--Tchad1 (talk) 14:06, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think the same. "Borrowed power" doesn't mean Tobi is Obito, but an Uchiha--Elveonora (talk) 14:11, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Glad to see I was not the only one who interpreted that statement that way. Now my question is, when Tobi is confirmed as a form of Madara once and for all (excuse my ignorance), are the articles going to be re-emerged into one gigantic one or would Tobi remain his separate character? I feel like it's a bit...insulting to just throw all of this information into another article considering that he would no matter what, he is a different entity from Madara.

And my other question is, how do we know Space-Time Migration is a Mangekyo technique? We've never seen the design when he's utilizing said ninjutsu. Isn't it jumping the gun stating it is? Especially when the only time he activates it is when he plans on using Kamui. Had STM been a Mangekyo technique, it would've already been active, no? I mean he's been showing off his regular Sharingan the entire time. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 18:57, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

But there was never a shot of his eye while using the space-time migration. And if Tobi turns out to be "Madara" then that's gonna be fucking confusing, at first separating the two only to merge them again 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 22:57, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Which is why there was never a reason to separate them to begin with until we knew for sure who Tobi was, but whatever. I think it makes sense to keep them apart when it is confirmed next or the following week.

And yes, there is.--Uchiha Suraku (talk) 23:14, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

There has been plenty of reason to split them, but this is not the point of this section. I looked at the page you mentioned, when he does he takes in the explosion in his fight against Konan, and that doesn't show which design is in his eyes when he uses the technique. Considering what we learned this chapter, I think it's least speculative to list STM as a MS technique. What Tobi did after saying he would show Kamui is no different than what we have always seen him doing. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:04, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

the timing makes no sense for obito to be tobi, when tobi attacked the village there was a shot of kakashi still as a child/teen while tobi was a grown man, this shouldn't even be considered 203.118.174.217 (talk) 07:03, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I want everyone to think about this very carefully and please do not delete. If tobi is in actuality not intangible and just transporting that part of his body to the other dimension, and if he must become tangible to transport himself, or his body has to be in the naruto dimension, then does that mean that while he's sending that part of his body to the other dimension, He would be able to be hit by an attack while he was transporting that part of his body to the other dimension? and how come we don't see the swirly distortion in his eyes whenever he becomes 'intangible', or transports a part of his body to the other dimension.--24.166.174.117 (talk) 01:24, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Question 1: No, the attack would go through him. Question 2: Because Kishi decided that's the way the technique would look like when performing those. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:04, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * @Omnibender's previous reply: And because there is no pupil whatsoever, that's why it's hard to even declare it a Sharingan technique, let alone an ability of the MS. Though I agree that aside from increasing the quantity of objects that could be summoned, Tobi's Space-Time Migration did not appear any differently than normally when he activated the Mangekyo. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 02:22, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Please don't try threading replies, this isn't Message Wall. Kakashi's understanding of his technique puts the source of the technique as the eye, and Tobi's explanation of getting the eye corroborates that idea. The fact they share the same dimensions also points in that direction. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:48, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

(Question 1: No, the attack would go through him.) Okayyyy..... Why, I mean do you have any evidence to the contrary. So are you saying that him transporting his whole body to the other dimension and him transferring a part of his own body two different things?--24.166.174.117 (talk) 03:45, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * From what we were shown about the ability so far, Tobi can either teleport himself or teleport something else, he can't do both at the same time. If he's intangible, he can't, by definition, teleport objects, and vice-versa. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:59, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tsunade's Assumption
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tobi#Other_Skills

"Overall, due to being imbued with the First Hokage's cells, Tobi has managed to extend his life to the point where it is believed by others that he may have become immortal."

I went back and looked at the source and apparently this was just Tsunade's assumption back when he was under the guise of Madara and she learned he had the first Hokage's cells, which she thought he used to extend his life. I'm not saying completely omit this line, but I recommend editing this line for that clarity. Nexus32 (talk) 08:09, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Done.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 09:32, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Regardless of pretending to be Madara, didn't Tobi tell Konan the reason he could use Izanagi the way he did was because he had Hashirama's cells? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:59, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Senju DNA/cells, not confirmed to be Hashirama's--Elveonora (talk) 23:06, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi's Kamui?
"Having obtained Obito Uchiha's Sharingan, Tobi has also gained access to the Mangekyō Sharingan through unknown means. With it, he can use techniques such as Kamui and his Space–Time Migration".

According to me this sentence is wrong, because at the moment we haven't evidence that Tobi can use the Kamui (the jutsu could be just of the left eye's MS of Kakashi, like the jutsu of Tobi prerogative of the right one).

I know that Tobi in the last chapter said to Kakashi that he would shown him the true power of the Kamui, but then he has just used his usual jutsu. So, if with the word Kamui we mean just the particular teleportation of Kakashi and not also the space-time migration of Tobi (like IMO the character has done in the last chapter), I think that until now we can't say that Tobi can use Kamui.--JK88 (talk) 10:09, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with this. Once again, the wiki is too speculative. If we go by the facts, it's as follow: Tobi has the Mangekyō Sharingan and he wants to show Kakashi the Kamui's true power. What he has done is using the Jikūkan Idō, as always. He didn't even visibly used his MS. Saying that he actually can use Kamui should only be added when he has done it. The same with the MS: JI should only be marked as an MS JUtsu when it's clear that it's used with an MS. Seelentau 愛議 11:26, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Fixed, curiously enough, I just realised his right eye is carefully hidden after showing them the MS.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 11:33, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Or on the contrary, we should arrive to the conclusion that the Space-Time Migration actually is just another way to use Kamui, and join the pages of the two jutsu (I know that in the third databook are in two separated pages, but the databook follow the plot of the manga at the moment). Just like the Susanoo, they are all with different abilities, anyway are considered just the same jutsu and are all described in the same article.


 * Anyway for now I think is still early to do other things than simply to remove the use of the Kamui from Tobi.--JK88 (talk) 11:41, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Slight correction, Susanoo has in fact not shown different abilities, just different tools. Susanoo on its own is a giant ethereal warrior clad in armor wielding weapons based on their user. Other than that they all preformed the same. Kumai and Space-Time Migration share the same dimension, but function differently (Kumai is long range, SPM is short, Kumai just requires line of sight, SPM requires physical contact).--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:50, August 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed. For now, we should not be quick to make assumptions, let's just wait for the next (few) chapters before merging (or not merging) the articles and saying JI is a MS Jutsu. Seelentau 愛議 13:15, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Actually in the translation i read he does directly relate his technique to kakashi's and calls kakashi's a barrowed kamui and his a real kamui.
 * He called Kakashi's power a borrowed one because Kakashi is not an Uchiha, whereas Tobi was pointing to the fact that he is. He didn't call Kakashi's Kamui a borrowed version the way you're making it out to be, and his real.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:48, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi should be listed and mentioned as having Kamui. We list him as having the Human Path's ability when he said he'd use it. I'm almost even considering listing him as a Tsukuyomi user now. The main reason he wasn't listed before is because he wasn't known to actually have a MS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:59, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you sensei--Elveonora (talk) 23:07, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, I don't understand why are you hesitant to label space-time migration as a sharingan kekkei genkai? It and Kamui are obviously connected, and Kamui, we know is a Kekkei Genkai.--24.166.174.117 (talk) 00:33, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

That technique is listed as kekkei genkai since chapter 597 last week, the thing I don't understand is that there's people saying he did that with regular S instead of MS. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:16, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

I also think Tobi's Space/Time jutsu is just another way to use Kamui.. he said "let me show you the true power of Kamui" and then proceeded to keep on using his regular S/T. The swirl is also similar.. and of course the eyes. Hopefully we get a confirmation next chapter, assuming Tobi's Sharingan is still intact... if not, then we'll have to wait for Kishi but I'm pretty sure it's a Kamui variant, just like how he negated the attack on Gedou Mazo.Fan151.198.114.191 (talk) 08:31, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Change Space-Time Jutsu
It grants him two distinct, yet similar, feats: intangibility and teleportation. that is a direct line from this page but it is not correct, in the chapter One Jutsu we learn when him becomes intangible is simply the teleporation on himself to a different degree then when he teleports completely.

Sign your posts, I'm also very confused myself. Konan's explanation and Kakashi's explanation are different. Why there's this swirl pattern when he teleports to a different place and and when he teleports others and releases them? It can't be the same, as we have seen Tobi making Sasuke intangible by touching him, thus physically in the other dimension... so why there was this swirl pattern when sucking him to the other dimension? Not to mention Kakashi says, intangibility = teleporting himself to the other dimension, but Konan said he can't teleport in ghost mode.--Elveonora (talk) 18:15, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Actually there's nothing wrong with it. In order to spare what should be confusion, we simply call one warping stuff away and the other, "intangibility". At least to me, I believe that's a good way to make a distinction between the two way he uses the ability.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 18:27, August 23, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi's Rinne-Sharingan mask
The mask has 3 eye-holes. It's not painted on. Look at the recent chapters, like 596-598. For now I'm adding that the mask has 3 eye-holes.--Black Ronin8 (talk) 10:56, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

It is true. Holyn (talk) 14:40, August 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * It would seem that this was a recent change as before the third definitely did not look like it had an opening.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:13, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I never thought it was painted O_O--Elveonora (talk) 15:24, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * It was initially, or at least appeared that way, but now it seems to be carved out.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:27, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

big shuriken
Shouldn't it be added to his "tools" infobox section?--Elveonora (talk) 15:02, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's supposed to be reserved for people who use the tool a lot, not just one time.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:23, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

And when did we see him using a sword a lot, not to mention Naruto has a scalper in his infobox, just used one and in a filler... same goes for others. The majority has only-once used tools listed--Elveonora (talk) 15:27, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I should have been more clear. Generic tools aren't listed in infoboxes unless they use it a lot like Toroi whose fighting style revolved around them. Tobi's listed as a sword-user because of the time he supposedly met Itachi, he had a sword.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 15:29, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, so generic things are used only when part of a fighting style, but non-canon one-time filler tools are being listed. Makes sense O_O--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

umm dont those giant shuriken tobi used, fuma shuriken? or are fuma shuriken just the foldable kind?98.26.246.147 (talk) 15:41, August 26, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

Yes, basically that's the gist of it because most if not all shinobi carry the standard, kunai and shuriken into battle, if everyone were to be listed we'd have an unreasonably long list of users. I believe the Fūma shuriken are the foldable types, not too sure if these don't count as well.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 15:47, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Merge Tobi page with Obito
Very well folks, seems like Tobi is Obito as revealed in chapter 599, time to merge both pages 85.246.199.136 (talk) 12:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for volunteering.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Tobi page serves no purpose anymore in the story. Every bit of this article will need to be written into Obito's article. Just great. =.= --Speysider Talk Page 12:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Kishimoto did it on purpose to make editors of Narutopedia go mad on him XD Khaliszt (talk) 12:43, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

And if it's Zetsu (Parasitic Cloned Obito)? I think we should wait one or two chapters more. Yumeyo-yuki (talk) 12:45, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Yumeyo-yuki, no need to rush into this before we know more.--Cosmikaze (talk) 12:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

We should wait a week more, chapter 600, long long explanation incoming known as flashbacks and plot no jutsu--Elveonora (talk) 12:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Community, please leave your thoughts at Forum:Chapter 599- Obito and Tobi so we can get a "collective" view.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:52, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

This is exactly what I feared would happen when Tobi's identity was revealed. People would jump to speculation and the process of merging the pages would be significantly slowed down. Look guys, I was never an Obitard. But it's more or less confirmed by this chapter, and it would be irresponsible not to merge the pages. Did we wait two or more chapters to see if Edo Madara was just Madara's body, and that Tobi had his soul? No. We merged them, because that's what you do when something like this is revealed. Tobi is Obito, so let's just get this over with and merge them. --M4ND0N (talk) 13:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

All those people who put Tobi = Obito because if you type Tobi repeatedly you get Obito" were right?! 207.216.193.120 (talk) 15:28, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The disambiguation
Maybe the disambiguation isn't correct anymore.. it is revealed who he is so it should no longer be a disambiguation to Madara (or at least not to ONLY him). Khaliszt (talk) 12:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * The chapter's been out all of five minutes...--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 12:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, I know.. I was just remembering it ^^ Khaliszt (talk) 12:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

do we jump the gun this time, or...
We cut/paste everything Tobi/Obito/whatever retarded shit has said about "I, Madara" to Madara's article. --Elveonora (talk) 13:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) founding of Akatsuki through Yahiko
 * 2) giving Nagato the Rinnegan (As these had happened before the Kakashi Chronicles)
 * 3) was Obito really responsible for the attack on Konoha, or was it Madara?
 * 4) control of Yagura
 * plothole: Tobi wasn't aware of Minato's techniques, was he? Obito was the latter's student.

How can tobi be obito when; he is always old? by exemple tobi said that he gave nagato the rinnegan at a time prior to the third ninja war when obito was still a little child or was unborn? also the tobi kisame remembers before dying seems rather diferent.

i know this aint a talk page but for the post above, i am starting to think tobi is more than one preson in all of this apperances actually. Reading the manga and putting them all together...kinda makes sense. Just reread and when ever he appears before and during the attack he seems..not the tobi now, while during current appearances he seems a complete different person then before.

also i do not think its a plot hole, havent had any yet. i can fill in gaps whenever someone mentions a supposed plot hole and do not think this is one, kishimoto will fill us all in within a next few chapters. leave everything as if until its all explained(unsigned)

Yes, "Tobi" is either an alias used by more than 1 person, and at least in once instance, it was the real Madara because Nagato had the Rinnegan like 35 years ago, before Obito was even born.--Elveonora (talk) 13:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely there are a bunch of questions that we should make. All the time-related ones which give a lot of illogical sense to the plot, and the motivational-related which are like "why the fuck would he do that"? Khaliszt (talk) 13:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

There were clues early on
At one point 'Tobi' made Kabuto explain the Edo Tensi to him. Then, a few issues ago, we see that Madara knew all about the Edo Tensi and how to release himself from it. From that point onward it was clear that whoever Tobi was he was from a more recent generation.

Beyond the inevitable six-issue backstory arc we're about to see, it'd be interesting to know who in the hell taught Obito to be such an absurdly good fighter.

And does anyone else think the writers will take the opportunity to finally tell us how Kakashi activated his Mangekyo Sharingan? Seems like a good time for it.

The "writers." There is but one Author for the Naruto manga series, Kishimoto the great and powerful troll. 76.197.15.235 (talk) 13:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

^ how he activated his Mangekyou, I'm just going to jump the gun > .> and say that Obito activated his, and since they were linked, Kakashi's also awakened 24.183.38.242 (talk)Ji

Obito's height
If what we saw is true and Obito is Tobi, then how in the hell was he a full grown adult at the time of him using Kurama to attack Konoha whereas Kakashi and Gai were just teenagers. Something must have been done to him to make him a full grown adult. --Senjuto 13:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Kakashi and Guy were 14 with an appearance of almost a full-grown men there as well... Kishimoto sucks when it comes to showing off age of his drawings. For example, 11 years old Itachi is as tall as mature Orochimaru--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that was Tobi, that guy never said or inferred his name was Tobi at all. Just Naruto and modern world put masked man=new masked man Tobi. Simple and as for height, what wrong with Itachi? I have been 6'2 since 7th grade. Only grew an inch from then and now and I'm 18. so he could have been tall and muscular and didn't grow much afterwards.

Nothing's wrong with that, but Kakashi and Guy were about 14-15 years old at the time of the attack and that was a couple of years from the Battle of the Kannabi Bridge, so how would Obito go from the height he was then to being as tall if not taller than Minato when fighting him during the attack initiated by Tobi (Obito) using Kurama. --Senjuto 13:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Growth spurt. You can grow a lot in a few years. Simply put. Realistically you could grow that much, now. It would be hell, the growth pains would hurt but you could.

Also this fight is the only thing keeping me from being sure my hypothesis is correct. I have called everything right about Tobi so far, except this fight. He never called himself Tobi so I thought he was the the older Tobi who i think was Madara, who met Nagato after the second war and maybe saved Obito after the bridge. But if it is Tobi my guess would be it has something to do with his body's alteration to be honest. Only one side of him looks old, the side that leaks the white substance, this makes me think that whatever that was (I think it's related to Zetsu to be honest, it fits. Just by straight facts it fits, that's why Zetsu was important).

Obito
So, like. I think we should get to merging the articles as soon as we can. The main thing to remember is whatever you think of the Obito theory doesn't matter. But I will say this, I think it's ridiculous how the community is still speculating on whether or not he's really Obito. I know it's hard to come to terms with, but the chapter's literally called "Obito Uchiha", and his face is revealed at the end. There's no room for further discussion. any speculation we had before is gone now, and we'll get an explanation down the line. I knew he was Obito for days, so it doesn't bother me.. but yeah. I think the sooner we get it over with, the better. --M4ND0N (talk) 13:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree, I seriously don't know why we're stalling because stalling is really harming us in a whole load of ways. --Speysider Talk Page 13:58, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Look at the Saiyan Island discussion. It's even worse. "He's the Juubi in Obito's body", "He's a Zetsu clone". Why would Kishimoto set it up like this if he isn't Obito? I don't care if people don't like it, he is who he is, and that's who he always was.. hence why Kishi covered the right side of his face during the Konan fight. It's done. He's Obito, so let's merge them. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I believe he is Obito but I think they need to remain separate until Tobi's explained. Some of the things Tobi did, I do not think were Obito.

- You need to use a signature, dude. Anyway, we didn't speculate on whether or not Tobi was Madara or not after Edo Madara was summoned. did we? There could have been TONS of "theoretical" explanations for it, but we chose to merge the articles. And let me remind you guys, that Kishi specifically said Tobi's identity would be revealed in the next few weeks. It's been 4 weeks. So we have to treat this as a revelation, and stop being prissy little whiners about his identity and stall the merging for some last remnant of hope that SOMEHOW he's Kagami or some shit. That's just not going to happen. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

So what's the plan people? I can help on the merge. ~IndxcvNovelist (talk 14:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, Somebody should lower the protection or atleast throw some information about Tobi's revealed identity (source for no obvious reason No Links.).--LaserGhost (talk) 14:11, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. The page should become unlocked, for the sake of allowing a large amount of people to edit the page after the merging. A lot of information needs to be moved. But since the admins have control over it, I hope they do the right thing and allow it to be merged.. this denial is making me sick. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Actually you are right, even if not all the information is correct for Obito, this should be handled like Madara, and needs to be merged, and if later info suggests something else the info can be moved. Only a few things do not makes sense, so it's safe to assume Tobi was Obito for the most part. --J spencer93 (talk) 14:15, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Theoretically this wiki is unbiased. We get based on the manga and on the official sources and official explanations and the original plot of the manga. Today we could see how our biggest official source, the manga, said that TOBI is OBITO. Why is there any doubt to change it? Yeah, I know and I totally agree with the fact it needs MUCH MORE information and explanations. BUT it was said. If in one chapter Kakashi said "I don't like ramen" It would be considered like that, and maybe 10 chapters later he is eating it and he says "I was joking in that moment" and we would have to rechange it but we followed what the official source had said.. Khaliszt (talk) 14:21, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. There shouldn't be a double standard just because people don't like the theory. So if any admins are online, I actually suggest you guys handle the merging. Judging from the reactions the revelation is getting on forums, I find it likely that Tobi's page could be prone to spam, editing, something like [there are many plot holes surrounding the revelation] or attempts to edit the name back to Tobi. Vandalism is possible and likely at this point. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. We've already knew it was him. It's time. -- ScottKazama (talk) 21:25, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yup. There's nothing to discuss. So are any admins online atm? We should get this underway. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Khaliszt, that is what I was saying. And so far there are no plot holes. I have read the entire manga so far several times, no plot holes at all. The Obito thing is explainable, and until the entire plot is finished, you can not call it a plot hole.

You need to add a signature when you reply. Otherwise things get messed up. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Yeah.. this is already done for today. Maybe in 2 or three weeks something changes and it gets better clarified. But right NOW that is what we've got and if this wiki considers itself unbiased we should say what today's manga said, and that is: Tobi is Obito. Like a said before with the example of kakashi and ramen XD Khaliszt (talk) 15:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm a random user on her and I was upset to see that you haven't merged the Obito Uchiha article with the Tobi Article. Please do that soon, or if you're not going to merge it than AT LEAST MENTION OBITO IN TOBI'S ARTICLE AND TOBI IN OBITO'S ARTICLE. It just feels like you guys are all denying it, when the biggest source you have has said it. Changes can always be reverted if new information comes in but as for right now. I say merge it.

Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment
Why was Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment removed from his jutsu list

Obito's image?
Since it's obvious the articles will be merged sooner or later, I'm just gonna say Obito in reference to this article. When that happens, should we change the picture to the unmasked Obito, or leave the current one as it is? --M4ND0N (talk) 15:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I think the unmasked is perfect. If it results to be Obito controlled somehow by someone (just giving an example) he would still have that appearance. And if it's obito totally himself (he still looks like that) i think it is still perfect. So the unmasked view of the last chapter would work very well actually! Let's see if and admin merges it.. Doesn't look like they're on the mood to do it. I understand it, it's complex to do all the merge and maybe next week you have to undo it.. but at least show yourselves, looks like you're giving no importance to it XD I understand the problem. But it's also a matter of biasing, it was already confirmed UNTIL NOW Khaliszt (talk) 16:04, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

All I'm seeing is a bunch of defeated anti Obitards coming up with desperate excuses to disregard Tobi being Obito. Kishi said that it would be revealed in a few weeks, and it's been a month. Obito Uchiha is the chapter title. I don't understand why this is a debate when Madara was split within a day. But I agree, the picture would be great for the article. Obito's still one of the main villains until he dies or turns good again. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Don't tell me ur serios M4ND0N--Elveonora (talk) 16:18, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

serious* And yes, I am. Read my comment on the chapter forum and you'll understand why this is so important to do. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Recommendation: Delay Edits
Reposting this from the Obito talk page. I know the majority above are already raring to merge the Tobi and Obito articles, but I must emphasize that considering the mountain of backstory necessary to bridge the time-skip between Obito's "death" and, at the earliest, Minato's confrontation with Tobi, merging everything right now can muck up the narrative of the page. I don't believe placing a few cursory paragraphs saying "Obito mysteriously surfaces back as Tobi" would suffice at this point.

I'd say we rather wait for the next chapter next week and see how the narrative bridges those intervening years. We don't even have any plausible information (yet) as to how a young Obito that died was transformed into an adult body identified to be Tobi and masquerading as Madara Uchiha. Delaying the merger is not about putting a foot on the throat of so-called "anti-Obitards" as mentioned above. If we are gunning for a seamless page, it would be most plausible and helpful for the editors to get all the fact straight. This is a wiki, after all, not a forum/gossip page where we're always gunning for "first scoop." Magatama90 (talk) 16:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * this was already said before in this same discussion but according to TOBI specifically and it is a repost from a discussion on the chapter forums, what is the need of putting it here? Khaliszt (talk) 16:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. This is a wiki. And as a wiki, we need to keep up to date with the latest content. I say we merge them, or else we risk becoming biased and unprofessional. We've never withheld content before, due to a few gaps and unexplained facts. Why start now? --M4ND0N (talk) 16:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Or, a simple message on their articles reading "WE ARE AWARE THAT TOBI MIGHT BE OBITO" kind of thing will do. akz!  16:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * 1. I did not come from the chapter forums. 2. I'm trying to suggest a more sensible approach to the handling of the edits: we are not denying Tobi is Obito, what I'm saying is that it's better to deal with the edits with complete information. See how images are not replaced with "latest" scans/anime captions unless it is of better quality, or how edits are not made in character profiles unless the information is complete (cf. the edit history of the Kabuto page during the backstory reveals). 3. Is your concept of professional simply being "up-to-date with incomplete information?" That is anything but. Magatama90 (talk) 16:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the image, I'm talking about the information we have. It's completely professional, because that's what we've always done. Why change now because a few people want to cross their fingers and hope he isn't Obito? Many other sites that documents the series have already listed Tobi as Obito. Wikipedia being the most prominent. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Again, not merging the articles right now does not mean we are sowing doubt into the reality that Tobi is Obito. What I say is that the edits should be done when information is complete (as I said, see the history of the Kabuto article). Why are you assuming for other people? Also: invoking Wikipedia is you committing a logical fallacy. The story line of Obito becoming Tobi needs to be explained better, and waiting for the next chapter is most sound. Evidence is incontrovertible with regards to the Madara/Tobi split... and the characters are pretty much different, which is why the split was easy to make. But Obito and Tobi? That key development needs better data, which the next chapter should provide. Let's not be hotheads here please. Magatama90 (talk) 17:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

How am I being a hothead? I'm not even concerned about people not thinking he's Obito, and disregarding it. I'm concerned about a wikia known for being up to date with content, completely ignoring an entire chapter for a whole week. That's just not a professional thing to do. Just remember how we handled Madara's article on the day the chapter came out. We split them. I understand there was more information to fill the gaps, since Tobi already had a sizable amount of info to stand as it's own article seperate from Madara. But we still can't let ourselves ignore content when it's there. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Magatama90 that we should not rush merging the Tobi and Obito pages into one until the backstory of how Obito became Tobi is revealed. Just because it is revealed that Tobi was revealed to be Obito, it does not mean we should just merge it immediately. There is no backstory revealed that tells us how the heck Obito became Tobi, particularly as Magatama90 shares my opinion on how Obito's body became that of a full-sized adult male. We need to be patient and see what chapter 600 and the ones that follow to see the backstory. M4ND0N, it may be completely professional as you say, but we must move with caution and be armed with the information necessary to facilitate a merger of the Tobi and Obito Uchiha pages. --Senjuto (talk) 18:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

This is Stupid
I am a long time editor of Wikipedia, and obviously this is not Wikipedia but you could at least apply some similar standards. Even if you don't want to merge the Tobi/Obito articles, at the very least mention what happened in each article. There is a complete blackout of chapter 599 on both articles, at the very least you could put that his mask was broken and it appeared he was Obito. You have an obligation as a popular website, to keep information up to date! -147.226.196.42 (talk) 17:47, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

The process is lengthy to merge the articles. But I agree, the opposition this revelation is getting is absolutely sickening. Especially with all the pre-established standards this wiki usually has. I think the admins will work on it soon. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Can we at least wait for the admins to wake up? I agree, it's frustrating without having an up to date wiki but let's not get impatient. Nexus32 (talk) 18:29, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, let's be patient and let the admins deal with this themselves. --Senjuto

I AGREE THIS IS STUPID. EITHER MERGE THE ARTICLES OR MENTION CHAPTER 599. Come on Narutopedia. I expected better :(