Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-31672013-20180831233027/@comment-34194151-20180928201155

@NamikazeNaruto

1)Jiraiya has no genjutsu breaking feats. Not saying he can't break her genjutsu but it's a stretch to say he would be immediately aware of her genjutsu and would be immediately able to break it while worried about 3 other jounin. He also doesn't have any of the advantages that allowed itachi to detect it and break it with ease and efficiency.

2) I literally stated that kakashi can't counter the collaboration ninjutsu. but it doesn't matter because kakashi has 3 teammates in this battle to misdirect gamabunta's attention.

3) Like I said, the human path was caught off guard by the jutsu and was ensnared. If team jounin sees the technique coming, they can chakra walk. chakra walking is a precuationary measure, not a reactionary one. Obviously if they are already ensnared, they are screwed. And Raiton>Doton. nothing suggests kakashi can't counter the technique.

4) the problem with most of what you are saying is that it assumes the jounin just let jiraiya run away. Obviously if jiraiya gets to escape and user guerilla tactics, then they would have trouble. but we are skipping a whole bunch of steps for jiraiya to safely escape right off the bat. What jutsu would allow him to immediately escape the jounin? Kakashi can open with his lightning fang jutsu from mid-range. asuma can use wind to amplify it. guy initiates leaf whirlwind and kurenai follows behind him and asuma to get close enough for genjutsu.

@AsianReaper. Well yes the chain tactic was effective but choji and chouza were sitting ducks afterward. But the thing is pain was already standing on the chain but he didn't see it because it was well-hidden. what if kakashi simply replaced the chain with the dogs? Choji and chouza use double human boulder and they could use the chain to grab on to an object in the environment to resist it. The dogs simultaenously suprise pain from undeground and all directions. when used as a surprise attack, Zabuza couldn't react to all the dogs and zabuza is around the same speed tier with kakashi, and kakashi is around the same speed tier with zabuza. I'm not sure if the dogs are fast enough though, but with kakashi's arsenal he could have came up with something that allowed his team to deal with another pain.

And I said that Deva path was in trouble the second ashura path "died" why would nagato let his strongest path die? if Deva path went down, then it means that kakashi and friends are free to find the weaker pains. Nagato needs deva path in order for his information gathering tactics to work.