Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-142748-20160310084128/@comment-142748-20160310185938

Thekillman wrote: A bit weaker, yes, but still ridiculously strong. No, they didn't get weaker at all. They got stronger from the War Arc. We saw Naruto's improvement and Sasuke's improvement. Yea no, Naruto didn't defeat him. If it wasn't for Hinata getting Hamura's chakra, Naruto would've been defeated very hard. Naruto did defeat Toneri in the one on one fight. After all, Naruto overpowered his best attacks, smashed him through the moon itself, and made the Tenseigan deactivate. Seeing as Hashirama uses large AOE jutsu and Toneri basically one-ups him in that department (or shall i say, hundred-ups him), he gets defeated at his own game. And if jutsu fails, Toneri drains him of his chakra and wins anyway, because Hamura's chakra can only block that. And better yet, Toneri doesn't even need physical contact to drain it. Not to mention Toneri kind of beats Hashirama in strength, speed, and durability by leaps and bounds.

Elveonora wrote: Is the Hamura statue that almost beat Kurama part of Toneri's arsenal? In that case, that might be a good counter against Hashirama's wood statues and dragons. Toneri does have the Hamura Statue, yeah. But how can Hashirama even use his techniques when he's so outclassed in speed and strength?