Board Thread:Versus Debates/@comment-34656247-20180528093116/@comment-33286580-20180529110324

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: You said otherwise at first xd

i am not saying otherwise. in the first post i said non eye contact genjutsu are normal genjutsu. this time around i just elaborated it seeing as you decided to put it in some sort of special skill like MS jutsu category while talking about the things ill Itachi did. i just wanted to make sure that it had nothing to do with MS and its drawback Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Ah good point.but ah bit isn't really acceptable.

the bit is important.

just how long did it pass since Itachi used Tsukuyomi and than going to confront Naruto. if it was only a hour or two than his eyes were still feeling the effect and if a day or so has passed than his eyes were more or less recovered.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: More like that's how powerful Itachi is and not totsuka, i mean itachi is the one who had to maintain stage 3 susanoo afterall, in the state.When he burned through the toad stomach his sharingan deactivated after just one use of amaterasu and tsukyomi, now to stregthen the second point his eyes didnt really cooldown at all. When he burned the wall, he used two tsukuyomi and one shot of amaterasu>>sharingan deactivated. When up against sasuke he used 1 tsukuyomi and 4 amaterasu >> sharingan remained active. So tsukuyomi is really the chakra consuming tech you would agree?

first of all, it seems more or less that Susanoo doesnt need MS anymore once the user activates it. take Madara's example for it. he did so when he was blind and even when he was using Rinnegan. if you actually look at the last page of 391 when Susanoo is first introduced you will see that even Itachi doesnt have his MS and not even Sharingan active. the whole fight he never once used even Sharingan, just read the manga.

Itachi's eyes were not even SHaringan after the useage of Tsukuyomi and 4 Amaterasu.

Tsukuyomi should be chakra consuming because he manipaluates time in the genjutsu.

Second, the items are the powerful ones. Itachi didnt need to manifest a full half body avatar to use Yata Mirror. he could do same with Totsuka Blade.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

It's not like Minato would be free, his hands would be full,again not fodder guys. It's the same sasuke that fought the kages xd. Minato would have to focusing on his opponent he can't multitask to such an extent even he panic's as seen in the war, tobirama had to come to his rescue, and hearing the name Madara uchiha all 4 of them would be a little scared, knowing Madara's feats and all.

that was an example of many ways Sasuke's arrows can be dodged and deflected.

Scared of Madara...

You make the Madara of the time before he became a legend with his EMS skills and you talk of him from during the war arc where he has EMS-Rinnegan and Mokuton. Make up your mind.

still...

first of all, this is depowered Madara, so he isnt the EMS one who changed landscapes in battle with Hashirama. and also if you must know, it wasnt just Hashirama that fought against Madara and the Uchiha, the whole Senju clan fought alongside in the war era. they werent scared.

even the Kage during the 4 war didnt look scared. they were scared of the Rinnegan-EMS-Mokuto combo that according to them brought Madara closer to immortality but nothing more. they openly decided to fight him. they did get scared when he whipped up the flower jutsu and later with PS, but this skills are not for MS Madara. they soon enough found their will and continued to fight on.

here we have Minato and Hiruzen who are clearly more stronger that the Kage of the 4th war and Jiraiya who is on par or stronger, but stronger certainly with SM. they dont have reason to be afraid.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: That's debateable.

true. but what i say cannot be completely discounted. Hiruzen showed better feats.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

Ah he did, he saw the flying raijin seal but did'nt budge, or maybe he just could'nt. He did have an MS but his mastery over is great? that's obviously unclear. there is nothing shows that he even saw the seal or even the attack. Indeed Izuna was strong and had great mastery over his SHaringan. he was fighting a war against Senju, which included Tobirama and Hashirama and he was the top guy alongside Madara in their clan.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Well Kakashi is wrong, cuz bee didn't have a sharingan but he followed and countered it perfectly..providing he could sense the tag which is unlikely since even obito didn't, that doesn't mean he knows where Minato will appear. Maybe slight of hand? idk about this one, but it was countered by bee, and these guys are masters of their Mangekyou (idk about obito).

B outsmarted Minato. no doubt about that and something Minato praised him for. that didnt mean B saw the attack coming. he guessed it. he knew Minato would attack A from blind side and he intercepted it. he understood feeling the seal that Minato would come for him and so he countered it.

Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: then Jiraiya entering sage mode without MA and PA will be simply useless,the stance is necessary and of course it will mean something to the uchiha team,jiraiya fighting normal, exchanging hands with sasuke then all of a sudden he summons bunta and enters that stance....hmm pretty suspicious, ''he's up to something wonder what it is? he's a legendary sannin so whatever he's up to will definitely not be good 'o' '', -thats something they'll say, and would obviously try to cancel.

first of all. you being the OP says that Team Uchiha has 0 knowledge on his abilities, means they dont know him because if he is legendary Sannin than they should know about him, but you still argue back that they will worry about Jiraiya who they know nothing of because he changes his fighting style.

Second - if they apparently know of him becuse he is the Legendary Sannin than they shouldnt be worrying about Jiraiya summoning Toads. that is how he fights. he uses Toads in his battles.

the stance is to gather chakra to summon Ma and Pa. and indeed i said they would be wary of him, but not knowing what he is doing would actully put them on standby. that is what Pein did. he hid, even though knew Jiraiya's skills excpet SM. Pein only attacked when he knew that the barrier Jiraiya errected would not let him stay hidden and he could be attacked.

In that sense Madara who is an arrogant guy would probably wont be bothered by Jiraiya. he wasnt even going at full strength against the Kage in the war until he was sure of their resolve that they wont back out. Obito is nerfed that he would die at some point midway. Sasuke and Itachi can be preoccupied by Hiruzen and Kakashi for the while till Jiraiya goes for SM.