Forum:Purpose of Image Tags and Characters in image templates ?

Apart from a couple of users who have used and, what is the real purpose of these tags? Hardly any uploaders these days use them, one or two users back in the day did use them but nobody really uses them. I'm voting for the removal of these templates that almost nobody actually adds. --Speysider Talk Page 16:28, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

You click them and they carry you to a list of images with these persons tagged in them.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 16:36, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * And that's useful how ? You can just manually add the categories and I doubt anyone goes to those categories of "Images containing the character X" --Speysider Talk Page 16:39, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Firstly, not because you believe something to have no use, means it necessarily has no use. Now, I've used that function in the past to find images of the said tagged persons to add to their articles. With some file names that do not have the person's own name in it, it's a convenient way to find older images. Kitsune added the tags to the image, and for all you know it served a purpose to that user but you removed it citing that you. It's not hurting anyone else to let them alone, so bear up your hatred of them.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 18:09, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * * cough* I uploaded that image and I do not want those templates there because they are stupid and are not even required for uploads. Got a problem with that ? --Speysider Talk Page 18:11, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Very well you uploaded the image to the wiki, I'm not going to go over the whole, "no one owns the images here" bit with you. I've already explained the use of the feature, all I ask is that you respect the fact that while you may not use the function there are others that do or might do so in the future.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 18:23, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Rather than being arrogant and "stuck-up", why don't you try answering the question I asked ? Yes, fine they link to a page with other images, but you could do that without templates whatsoever. And count to me the number of people who put those templates on images. You don't use them yourself, nor does any other person who uploads. One person adding the tags on one image I uploaded doesn't indicate people use them. In fact, even people like Droidkaju don't use them. You are obviously not going to listen a single f'ing word I post anywhere on this wiki because you won't stop your arrogance and I am getting tired of it. Why is it that every time you tell me not to jump down other people's throats, you do EXACTLY the same to everything I post on this wiki ? Why don't you do me and everyone else a favour and back off for once. This wiki was peaceful while you weren't uploading and editing, so why don't you just keep it that way, instead of showing how antagonistic you are to other editors when you don't agree with them ? --Speysider Talk Page 18:29, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Please don't make me treat you both like children and forbid you two from talking to each other. Now, according based on tests I just ran, yes the image tag does indeed link to image catagories of the characters listed, so yes they do indeed serve a purpose. While it is odd to have mention of the characters twice, we got a link to the categories, they are legit, and completely useful templates. Hell they do us a great service they should probably be added to all current and future images.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 19:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * "Please don't make me treat you both like children and forbid you two from talking to each other."

Do it, I've had enough of the arguments Cerez causes with me. Every time I try to bring up discussion he creates a war out of it. Notice how the times Cerez is NOT here that everything is quiet and the minute he shows up, all hell breaks loose ?


 * "Now, according based on tests I just ran, yes the image tag does indeed link to image catagories of the characters listed, so yes they do indeed serve a purpose. While it is odd to have mention of the characters twice, we got a link to the categories, they are legit, and completely useful templates. Hell they do us a great service they should probably be added to all current and future images."

And you can't just do manually without having to be lazy and using a template ? --Speysider Talk Page 20:11, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * So...why exactly should we do it manually, when we very well could just use the template which automatically sets it up o.O Why make the extra effort to do something when we already have something that does what we want? Templates exist so we don't have to do stuff. o.O
 * And you really don't want me to actually forbid you to do anything. Because my methods are more permanent, costly, and not fun. People need enemies. Peers keeps one in check and forces them to observe their own actions. I would be lost without ShounenSuki giving me hell away back when. (Titans I miss fighting with him every other week /cry). Anyway--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

"So...why exactly should we do it manually, when we very well could just use the template which automatically sets it up o.O Why make the extra effort to do something when we already have something that does what we want? Templates exist so we don't have to do stuff. o.O"

Because nobody uses the templates ?

"And you really don't want me to actually forbid you to do anything. Because my methods are more permanent, costly, and not fun. People need enemies. Peers keeps one in check and forces them to observe their own actions. I would be lost without ShounenSuki giving me hell away back when. (Titans I miss fighting with him every other week /cry)."

I don't want to talk to Cerez or have him talk to me in any form. Any time he gets involved, there is always arguments and admin involvement (*cough* you *cough*) because he doesn't know when to keep his nose out of things that don't concern him. Other editors believe him to be way too arrogant and overbearing and it's slightly annoying when a wiki has users like this. Again, have you noticed how, in the last 5 days, there has been no problems between me and Cerez because he wasn't here. The minute he shows up, the messages above occur. --Speysider Talk Page 20:26, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry if this post doesn't turn out properly, I'm not exactly using a pc. Firstly, Speysider, I wasn't trying to sound stuck-up so I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way. I was going for neutral so as to avoid the argument that apparently ensued. Secondly Ulti, I'm sorry that you have to mediate so many of these petty things that get blown out of proportion. Now to answer your question that I overlooked Speysider: I simply didn't know that there was any other way to search and or group the images.

Now for the other stuff such as there being a problem when I'm here with user Speysider, I think that's because I have a shorter fuse when I see stuff like the incessant use of expletives you display on a wiki where children and conservative people are, the bullying of Droidkaju for example and the whole video game images issue, and removing using templates like the "character in images" for something like "widescreen" which doesn't seem like it'll ever serve a purpose (but that's just my opinion) and going further, they are left uncheck and most time than not turn out to be hinderances to the wiki's progress. If Speysider doesn't want to have contact with me that's fine. Now I hope none of this will be taken in the wrong way, because this is the last of it for me, I've already asked to let the templates alone unless there's another option.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 21:01, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

"the incessant use of expletives you display on a wiki"

Naruto is a series that you need to be at least 12 to watch, in most cases 15 because it also contains expletives. And most people start swearing around 13 or 14 because they hear it from others. So my use of expletives isn't a reason.

"where children and conservative people are"

See above.

"the bullying of Droidkaju"

I do not bully him. I give him advice and he ignores it. In one case, you used a rather insulting edit summary as though you think I jump down everyone's throats, when I give plenty of chances to users.

"for something like "widescreen""

Do you know what that is for? Try reading the template page:

"which doesn't seem like it'll ever serve a purpose (but that's just my opinion)"

See above.

"they are left uncheck and most time than not turn out to be hinderances to the wiki's progress."

Excuse me, but how is a template such as Widescreen hindering the progress of this wiki? I think it's better to say your attitude to when I upload a 1080p image is more a hindrance than the use of a template intended for the purpose of tagging images for reupload if they are in the wrong ratio (3 of your uploads from the episode where Darui prepares to fight Kinkaku and Ginkaku is a PRIME example of the usage of that template).

Something to mull over me thinks Cerez. Rather than faulting others, consider yourself as well. --Speysider Talk Page 21:08, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * And if nobody is using them, and I know they damn sure aren't using the Categories one, we should push for using the template.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:10, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Now in order of what was posted, because the last line nudged me and thus gave me interest (which will only lead to bad things)
 * Swearing. Should avoid it. Don't care about what people believe is the "right" time to swear and what not. If people aren't comfortable their opinions should be respected. I am well aware I fail at this at time but...yeah. Lessons are ment to be learned.
 * Bullying. Yeah. You do it. We've been over this before, and it's the reason I watch everything you do. Unlike Cerez I sit silently until it becomes a crisis. Cerez has less restraint than I do. That is probably a good thing.
 * You can't say that the Image Tag template serves no purpose then in the same discussion say that your widesreen template does. I personally think the widescreen template is ass pointless and only serves to increase the e-peen of those who can upload widescreen, and I have so far only seen you use it. And yet, it stays.

You have provided Cerez numerous reasons to examine himself and I hope he does so. But I want you to examine yourself and ask yourself why I am always talking to you.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT CONFLICT: @Speysider: Image tags have been present for a very long time. Concerning the image uploaders can you specify the ones who are not using either one of the templates mentioned in the dispute(Can't find them in the last month, except you)? --Vecanoi (talk) 21:25, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

@TheUltimate3 "Yeah. You do it."

And I'll repeat myself. No I do not bully people. You are just looking for a reason to come down hard on my style. Live with it. Stop hounding me.

"You can't say that the Image Tag template serves no purpose then in the same discussion say that your widesreen template does. I personally think the widescreen template is ass pointless and only serves to increase the e-peen of those who can upload widescreen, and I have so far only seen you use it. And yet, it stays."

That is NOT the point of that template. lrn2read. It is there when an image is in the WRONG ratio! That applies in both original AND shippuden. For example, I have sent a lot of uploads from User:Mutant 16 from the original series that are all in Widescreen which is an incorrect ratio. I would well advise you stop hounding me about image uploads when, you yourself, do not upload ANYTHING to this wiki. I have never seen you use the upload system at all. So yeah.

@Vecanoi: The templates have existed for ages, but they have never been used. One user (see above) has used the tags, but they are never used on any uploads these days. What else do you want me to say or do ? --Speysider Talk Page 21:27, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * How they have never been used, if you yourself use them? --Vecanoi (talk) 21:32, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Excuse me, but I have NEVER USED those templates. Never. If you don't understand the situation, don't get involved. --Speysider Talk Page 21:34, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * The reason you provide for the template does not concern me. Nor does it effect my judgement. As I have pointed out, the Template remains, when I could have said "Stuff it" and deleted it. The same reason why the Image Tag template isn't in any danger of not being used and as I said will probably be used more.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 21:35, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Whatever. All this topic has shown is that two users cannot speak in a civil manner to me without starting needless arguments when they don't agree with what I say or when I ask a very basic question. I don't give a damn if you think I bully people because you are obviously blinded and I do not bully anyone. Anyway, I'm done with this topic, you can continue as much as you want but don't expect further responses from me. --Speysider Talk Page 21:46, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT conflict:
 * It frightens me this was all an excuse for you to start another argument filled with anger, or (and) jealousy. Like that time with the widescreen shots, and the allowed, needed, and "obligatory" monitors. Studying your blinking screaming words it did not seem to me that you were working to achieve cooperation, and benefit to this encyclopedia regarding this needless topic. --Vecanoi (talk) 21:53, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Last response from me. Vecanoi, I have no idea what your talking about, but your not helping the situation by posting things like that. I would advise you stay out of this issue because it involves a problem between me, TU3 and Cerez. Nobody else needs to get involved in something that they have no idea what they are talking about. --Speysider Talk Page 21:59, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

As you wish. Last thing from me also: If this is between you it shouldn't be a forum message. You could have had your private conference anywhere using any type of numerous programs. If it's a forum message anyone is allowed to read and participate. --Vecanoi (talk) 22:06, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * How very mature of you Vecanoi. I like you lol.
 * Anyway, this has been derailed for far to long, so lets end it here. The Image Tag template not only stays but I actively encourage. And we now sit silently in quiet contemplation for the next inevitable battle.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:10, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Any way, I suppose I should explain here finally: I'm not saying I'm faultless in anything but I can honestly say I came here with the full intention to speak civily to the editor, I wasn't the one that blazed up and started cursing people even an Admin who you claim doesn't use the upload function: if you go back to some of the earliest uploads you'll see Ulti there. People's contributions to the wiki change over time, doesn't mean they don't know how it works.
 * Firstly, can you provide source for your information on people and cursing, because that is absolute rubbish. There are people who do no curse and for that reason dub and censorship exists.
 * You need to be that age to use wiki, not read it Secondly when you add that widescreen template, how many of them have been replaced? how many of them do you forsee being replaced? why not simply replace them instead of adding that wordy template?
 * Speysider, I have no issue with you uploading 1080p images to the wiki. What I had a problem with was you coming here and stating that you'd re-upload images in 1080p after others had already uploaded it and from what i've seen there is very little difference between the two versions. Other than that, I have no issue with you uploading 1080p images over poorer qualities one because that's bettering the wiki which shouldn't be a problem. So stop harping on it, it's a non-issue really.
 * As for the bullying I'd cite the messages you've left on the user's page, Ulti's page and most recently you accusing him/her of padding their edit count when they tried to dabble in rawing (I could be wrong I wasn't here for that) even though ¾ of the images uploaded by them are currently being used in articles.
 * I simply see no reason to be removing the template simply because you don't like it, when other people may use it and I'm just asking that it be let alone.
 * Also I'd like to point out to people that this is not an issue between three people, anyone can contribute we can all use the characters in image function, not just the three of us so there's no need, once again, to be rude to Vecanoi.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:16, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

"You need to be that age to use wiki, not read it Secondly when you add that widescreen template, how many of them have been replaced? how many of them do you forsee being replaced? why not simply replace them instead of adding that wordy template?"

I tagged them so that I could back and actually replace them. They're tagged so that a user can go and get the image in the proper aspect ratio. That's all I need to respond to from your lengthy message of rants. Anyway, let's stop here. --Speysider Talk Page 22:21, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, but you have no statistics to show that the template has ever been of any use do you? But yet still these images are tagged for deletion because the ratio is wrong. You don't think your time would be spent more productively finding images with correct ratios such as the ones from the Hoshikage arc. That is what I don't get and mean by counter productive. If anything that is padding your edit count which you seem to detest so much.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 22:28, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * How is putting in a tag to inform the user the image is in an incorrect ratio edit count padding ? If anything, continuing this discussion is edit padding because TU3 has said to stop. Also, to answer your point, I have other things to be doing than uploading images to the wiki, there are many others who can do this, I am simply helping them to find images that need a fix to the ratio. --Speysider Talk Page 22:32, July 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh no. Please continue. /popcorn--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 23:27, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Here is what I feel:

The Image Tags is really not required as it only gives a link of the character in the image which is already there (or has to be there) in the description.

But for the "Characters in image" template, it has a purpose and it categorises the image so that it can be found latter easily when required. If you want to use the template or enter the category manually, its your personal choise. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png (T@lk) 03:50, July 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Cerez, I don't care what you say about having no problem with me uploading 1080p HD images. It is quite obvious you do not like them. For example, I added an image of Atsui nobody else had any problems with and then you came along, added an image and basically showed your hate against 1080p by saying this in the edit summary:

"further back, less rectangular and he basically posed for this"


 * ALL 1080p HD images are meant to be rectangular because they are widescreen! Seriously, can't you start a discussion on talkpages BEFORE YOU GO AND CHANGE THE DAMNED IMAGES I SPENT TIME OBTAINING! --Speysider Talk Page 14:01, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Really Speysider? You uploaded how many images in 1080p format from that episode and I replace one infobox image and you start ranting again? If I really disliked them would I have not replaced all of them? I've already said elsewhere that I don't like rectangular/widescreen! images in infoboxes and I've cropped quite a few to make them more square: Kakuzu, Asuma and I was goig to do Tobi, if the image wasn't locked. Also, please to understand that not because you actually pay to view the anime in 1080p makes the time you spent obtaining them any more valuable than others. I and a few other editors now and in the past have crunchyroll accounts, Fmakck is a prime example of this and he never complained when him images were replaced.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:22, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll rant as long as you continue to change the images I upload. And for a start, if you had a Crunchyroll account, then you should be uploading in 1080p HD when you don't. Also, you cannot compare me to anyone else. And I don't see a problem with Tobi's image, it depicts him and nobody else seems bothered in replacing it, only you. So yeah, rethink your logic. --Speysider Talk Page 14:24, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then friend, you'll continue to rant because as long as there's better out there, your image will be changed. It really doesn't affect me.
 * Can't upload 1080p remember i'm using a relic? I also no longer have a Crunchyroll account because I'm not a twat any more.
 * Can't compare you to anyone else? Classic you.
 * I never asked for your opinion on the Tobi image though. I see you also left a message on Atsui's talk page, wait on people to respond there yeah? -Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:32, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this going a bit off-topic? http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png (T@lk) 14:33, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * He's responding to my previous statement that I had nothing against 1080p images. Apparently he felt it pertinent to broadcast it here as well as Atsui's talk page.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 14:39, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Some ancient facts
*sigh* I can't believe we had such a large thread on such a pathetic topic.

Firstly a few facts and ancient history the youngsters here now probably don't know and haven't bothered to look up:
 * doesn't just add images to categories. It actually adds semantic attributes as well. and you know the semantic attributes are much more powerful for querying)
 * Once upon a time... The Narutopedia was full of images. We didn't know what to do with the massive pile. And we wanted to know what images contained what characters justsus, etc... so that when we wanted to use an image we could actually find one we were looking for instead of having a vault full of them and no way to find anything. Wikia had prior attempted to implement a image tagging feature. And they failed... no seriously FAILED. They failed so badly that blocked users could still add tags and for awhile wikis were full of tag spam filling things up. Wikia gave up and removed the extension (IIRC). So without caring about Wikia... since well... ;) they have never been of much help to us,  was born. We hoped that one day every image would be tagged by some nice person and we could make this a big feature on the wiki.
 * We actually never intended the "Images containing the character " categories to be the primary system kept around for a long time. In fact our greatest desire was to eliminate them completely. They're categories, they're crap. For every different character you tag an image with you have to go and create a new category. It's a stupid system, you shouldn't have to create the categories at all. We wanted to use semantics like Character in image::Naruto Uzumaki from the start. No categories. No page creation. No mess. And we could potentially use it in the future to make really fancy queries!
 * Unfortunately at the time. Semantic Drilldown didn't have the ability to display galleries of images, it only did pages. As a result even though we had the semantics and you could query and list it, etc... there was no gallery based on it. Which was a real problem since well, ;) a list of filenames is pretty useless.
 * But there was some hope for the future. Semantic Forms had something called 'RunQuery'. It basically let you build a semantic form, and then instead of creating a page using it you could turn it into a query form page. You would send someone to the form. They'd input data into it. And the page would dynamically render a template using the data they input into the form. Naturally this would make it possible to use #ask queries in the page to create whole galleries of images when a user inputs a character name into a form, etc...
 * But to our dismay at the time, Wikia didn't have Semantic Forms... (Dun dun duhhhhh...) And it didn't look like they'd have it any time soon. So no RunQuery. No way to have semantic galleries then.
 * So, we made a compromise. We made "Characters in image" output both a semantic attribute and a category. This gave us the semantics we wanted and would hope we could use in the future. And in the meantime gave us category pages that let us have galleries until the bright days of the future where we would have Semantic Forms and we could exterminate all the worthless categories.
 * Fast forward to the future. Or rather, now... We have semantics. We have tags (well, hopefully as long as people kept kindly tagging images and we don't have people rudely undoing things which give us flexibility *glare*). We have Semantic Forms. We have Special:RunQuery. And "someone" needs to write a form to make image galleries out of a semantic form. Queue SimAnt!!! The "tech quy" who replaced me as master template crafter on the wiki.

Now in that vein. Please do not go removing the character in image template. It adds important semantics. And hopefully we can ditch the categories soon. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 05:29, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. So what does the do?  http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (T@lk) 05:40, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * It displays the list of names on the image page. So you know what was tagged. Because there were some issues with trying to use the "[...]s in image" itself to do the displaying. ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 05:43, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * But its already there in the description.  http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png  (T@lk) 05:52, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * And if you're browsing images trying to find images missing tags. How else do you figure out whether a page has been tagged properly? ~ Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (Local Talk &#8285; Animanga Talk) 05:56, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

Aha. So we should add these templates to images which donot have them or were removed from them. http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s145/urbancowgurl777/UltimateSupreme2212-3.png (T@lk) 12:39, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * My opinion is that it should be personal choice if the tags should be on the images. If the uploader didn't add them, I feel it's a bit mean to go and add them when they might have valid reasons not to have them there. For the past several months, I have never seen people add them (not even Cerez) so maybe it's just they don't feel them necessary. tl;dr version: it should be optional, not forced on people. --Speysider Talk Page 12:43, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of having them on all images. It would be a good (but big) undertaking for the community. That way images would be more uniformed and easier to search for.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:07, July 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Once the image is uploaded, it is no longer the users to decide what happens to it. Yes it will be a huge undertaking, but one I feel is worth doing. It will also be long. Oh dear Titans wearing hula skirts singing Devil May Cry it will be long.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 13:36, July 12, 2012 (UTC)