Board Thread:Naruto Discussions/@comment-44455926-20191119200613/@comment-44455926-20191124213618

@Nashikeine

Jiraiya is no speedster indeed but with the 2-3 scenes we see him use his speed, he's definitely superior to each individual Pain in speed and strenght who managed to avoid the rasenshuriken by just jumping away from it, of course Nagato couldn't save every body but Jiraiya doesn't have to focus on so many bodies, if Jiraiya is on a distance Pain was, in an open field, dodging it would be no problem.

Second, how will Naruto kill Ma and Pa on Jiraiyas shoulders if he doesn't already kill Jiraiya himself? Naruto can't push or pull objects around like Deva can.

That super long time you said takes Ma and Pa to perform the genjutsu is about 5 minutes, neither did Jiraiya hide but just wait for the Pains to come towards him. There was no hiding there besides retreating and creating a strategy.

Naruto has never used Ma and Pa in any battle other than against Pain and they weren't even summoned, they just went along. Ma and Pa wouldn't be nearly as useful to Naruto as they were to Jiraiya, They can't collect chakra for him neither can they do collab jutsu. So even if Naruto had one Ma and Pa of his own it wouldn't change the battle much, Naruto probably wouldn't even consider summoning them.

Jiraiya managed to hide his presence from the rinnegan, He can summon and hide in barriers within his toads, hiding his presence completely, he isn't one of the best spies in the Narutoverse for no reason.

Now, if y'all wanna start including Kurama and stuff like that what's the point of comparing Sage Jiraiya with Sage Naruto? In an actual fight Jiraiya could take out Naruto before he even enters Sage mode. Bloodlust Jiraiya just rips Naruto apart, Kurama can't do anything.


 * Crushing* Toad Stomach.I'd pay money to see Naruto struggle around in the stomach, trying to create shadow clones so he can actually pull off rasenshuriken, Now if a massive rasengan could blow up the big toad? Maybe, but i can't really imagine Naruto creating a rasenshuriken in that situation.

We're comparing Pain Arc Naruto and Jiraiya since he already "surpassed" Jiraiya by that point and is considered much stronger for some reason. There are also many factors we didn't talk about like intel that would probably be a bigger advantage for Jiraiya than Naruto. Again i'll point out that i don't think SM Jiraiya is much stronger than SM Naruto, or at all, but there are many situations where he could take the win and not just get taken out in one second without any resistance like many people here seem to think.