Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation

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Casket
Is it not reasonable to assume that the third casket contained what was meant to be Lord Fourth Hokage, as Sarutobi made sure to stop it?

ShieldmaidenI live by honor and die like a warrior 04:03, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. --Puppet King ' 00:24, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It couldn't be the Fourth Hokage because his soul is trapped inside de Shinigami, so he can't be brough back to life with this jutsu. L Mars (talk) 11:57, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please keep this sort of speculation on fan fora.
 * Considering the circumstances, it is beyond ridiculous to think the third coffin held anyone other than the Fourth Hokage, but there is simply not solid evidence for it. --ShounenSuki (talk 14:15, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I think the unseen body is the sage of six paths
 * Don't forget the fact that Orochimaru knew nothing of of Shiji Fuujin before that fight. It's not unreasonable to assume that Orochimaru was attempting to summon the 4th. It is however, a screw up that Sarutobi made it a note to stop it when he knew that the 4th couldn't possibly be in there because his soul is trapped within the Shinigami.


 * Where exactly does it ever say you can't be brought out of the Shinigami's stomach? Wouldn't Minato be able to be summoned and then if he dies he just goes back inside the Death God? Because they make it fairly apparent that the Coffin Hiruzen blocked was Minato...Orochimaru summons 3 coffins, 1st and 2nd Hokages come out, the coffin with the 4 on it is stopped, does anything else have to be said? At least mention on the page that this could very possibly have been Minato, who else would it have been?


 * But Minato would'nt've scared Madara. and Kabuto even stats: Don't Worry, No one knows about it." So it has to be someone that he is terrified of. KiumaruHamachi (talk) 16:10, April 12, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi


 * I think it could be madaras brother because they are equal in strenght and its more logical to me than the fourth or the sage of the six paths ITACHI&#39;95 (talk) 18:37, April 12, 2010 (UTC)ITACHI'95

i dont understand...when orochimaru did it he definitley summoned the 4th. though he is in the shinigami, it is possible for him to be REANIMATED. His body and his soul.... are seperate and the shinigami asside, it is said that the 4th was one of the strongest warriors hence sarutobi stopped it + he knew this because of the 4 on the coffin. in Kabuto's case it could be the fourth but i tend to feel that it was most likley the SOSP; sage of six paths. Also it could be his bro dude to them both being equaly strong. But until it is revealed, we have no idea due to there being no hints what so ever. Wolfvang

Yeah I'm pretty sure it was Minato that Orochimaru was going to summon, but as for the unknown that Kabuto brought out, I think it was Shisui. I would not want it to be the Sage of the Six Paths, that would be way too epic and Kabuto couldn't be that powerful...but I know anything's possible...

I agree that Orochimaru was going to summon Minato, but as for Kabuto, I know it could be Shishui, but did you ever think that the last Casket might be the body of Madara's Brother? I doubt it was the sage of six paths only cause pain was one of the bodies kabuto summoned. Dj q-pid (talk)

Could have been the Fourth Kazekage or Mizukage. We can speculate to the world is destoryed a bllion timesover but till Kishi saids something, it is not the fourth hokage or any kage for that matter.Saimaroimaru (talk) 22:45, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible that the unidentified person in the kasket is Hashirama Senju? Since he's the only person I could think of that Madara could be scared of... User:T0rw0ri (talk) 16:41 May 26th 2010(GMT+1)

Chaper 489
Did Kabuto sacrifice the Taki-nin's bodies for the technique?--GoDai (talk) 01:40, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * No as you can see Anko inspecting it in the same chapter. Though since only one body is shown he may have used the other 2.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 01:42, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe he attacked a few others before for the one shown for the sacrifice. Either that or he needs less (or possibly none at all) bodies to use the technique.--GoDai (talk) 02:01, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can only speculate but speculation can't go in the article.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 02:02, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about, even Madara admited it --'--Monkeyworld

WTF!?
I can guesstimate Kakuzu and Sasori but how exactly did Kabuto find Nagato and especially Deidara (after blowing himself supposedly to bits) and Itachi? (last time we saw him he was with Madara and Zetsu)Questionaredude (talk) 04:20, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Read how the jutsu works before you comment. You only insult yourself when you don't.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 04:21, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Those aren't their "actual" bodies, just mere sacrifices. Those sacrifices are then covered in dust an ash (by the technique) to create the looks of the souls that inhabit those sacrifices.

madara probably accepted the offer of kabuto because kabuto bring izuna uchiha(madaras brother) to life again

Alive again?
Would Kakuzu, Sasori, Deidara, Nagato, and Itachi be considered alive again because of this jutsu? Evilpuppy123 (talk) 07:11, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * No.  ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 07:18, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

hidan
now we know hidan isnt dead because kabuto diddnt bring him back so we can infer hidan is still alive.
 * Hidan is listed as being incapacitated.--Deva 27 (talk) 19:18, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Plus you don't know if Kabuto wants Hidan with him, or if he could summon him (more chakra spent or he dind't had the necessary corpse) L Mars (talk) 19:27, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * This technique involves bringing back a deceased person. Hidan is still dying due to lack of nutrition where Shikamaru left him. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:33, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Unless I am mistaken, Hidan was only buried about a month before Kabuto resurrected everyone. It is unknown how long it takes for Hidan to die, and Kabuto would most likely not try to resurrect him unless he knew for sure that Hidan was dead. Also, it should be noted that Kabuto did not merely resurrect allies. Nagato did turn to Naruto's side after they came face to face. But anyways, the point is that we can't assume anything about Kabuto's use of the jutsu at this point. He did what he did because Kishimoto wanted him to do it. As far as I am concerned, the case is closed. Making assumptions would merely be speculation. Ryne 91 (talk) 19:54, April 2, 2010 (UTC) Ryne I slightly agree with ryne, though hidan had to use his technique to stay alive, so assuming he is still burried (or his head at least) then he is very likley to have died. Nutrition dosent really count due to him not having a stomach. + Hidan is not good with multiple opponents rather only a couple/1. So even if he is dead i doubt he would be wanted. Kazaku made up for most of hidans flaws. + If you think back, hidan was always recieving fatal attacks which would not be wanted on the battle field. Wolfvang

Hidan Isnt died ..its mentioned that he dien slowly due to his lose of vitmins or wtf

Itachi WTF???!!
Itachi has been summoned but now he got no eyes cos they r currently with Sasuke so wat does he bring 2 da table? Plus think of Sasuke's surprise when he sees his bro back in action... 121.209.67.200 (talk) 23:33, April 3, 2010 (UTC)Ulti Da Naruto Fan

Forgive me for the rudeness, but read the article before asking the obvious. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:43, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

He might not get to see his bro because it will take him awhile for his eyes to heal or whatever and madara might want to seperate them to avoid any problems.

The resurrected Itachi and others still retain their abilities, at least to an extent as seen when the 1st and 2nd were resurrected. Their power lies in their soul. Itachi's physical body was removed of its eyes, not his spiritual. So he would bring a lot to the table. However, not to full strength as seen when the 1st and 2nd were resurrected.--Knizes (talk) 19:09, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Who's to say he won't be in full power? When Hiruzen fought Hashirama and Tobirama he said they were strong as ever. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:06, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Doesn't "土" mean "Earth"? Is it possible for it to mean "World"? Or is it that "穢土" as one word means "Impure World"?--GoDai (talk) 19:19, April 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * It also means ground or world. That has different meanings.
 * Earth (as in "Ground" or "Land") is "地." "World" is "世界." That's what I go by after I learned Japanese. By what I know, "土" is "Earth (as in "dirt" or "soil," and like Earth Release 土遁)." --GoDai (talk) 06:30, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nowadays, 土 is mostly used to refer to soil and ground, but it does have an archaic meaning of country and world. For instance, the Amida Buddha's Pure Land is called, means birthplace,  means homeland or mainland, and  means the whole country.
 * 穢土 refers to the world we humans are living in. The opposite of the Amida Buddha's Pure Land. The Impure World. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:32, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see, so it means something like "unholy" in this case?--GoDai (talk) 04:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Holy and unholy are rather difficult to use in a purely Buddhist context, as there are no true gods to declare what is holy and what is not. The Impure World is impure because it is corrupted, filled with people bound by earthly desires and thus by their Karma. The Pure Land is pure because it is free of earthly corruptions, allowing the people living their to build off their Karma until they reach enlightenment. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:40, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

When ?
When did Tobirama Senju use this jutsu ???? --Petar93 (talk) 17:00, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Did you read the last chapter.--Deva 27 (talk) 17:05, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

yeah and that is why i asked was it in the anime or in the manga because i might have missed it --Petar93 (talk) 17:07, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was never shown using it, it was just said that he could.--Deva 27 (talk) 17:12, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Summoning: Impure World Resurrection ??
It a bit weird in the manga look analyze: the bodies namely Kakuzu, Itachi, Deidara, Sasori, Nagato :


 * Kakuzu: Konoha has possesion of Kakuzu for autopsy to study the damage of the Rasen-shuriken?
 * Itachi: Akatsuiki has this bodies if they don't how can madara give itachi's eyes to sasuke?
 * Deidara: Didn't he use C0 Jutsu? So there is nosign of his corpse?
 * Sasori: Didn't Kankuro has Sasori's body stated in the manga during Sasuke's attack?
 * Nagato: Didn't Konan had Nagato's and Yahiko"s body?

Can anyone clarify this? -joboyaltar--Joboyaltar (talk) 11:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read the description of the Jutsu. You dont need the body, just the soulL Mars (talk) 11:37, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

those are just the souls not there corpse so kabuto sacrificed someones body in order for nagato kakuzu deidara sasori and itachi's spirit to go to that body he dont need there real corpse when using this tech just the spirit and the sacrificed body!!!!!!!!!

It would be nice if y'all signed your posts, ya know. But i agree: Why don't you people READ the dammit article before you ask the same doubt asked by at least 100 odd people before you? This wiki is full of the same question!! BlazeUchiha 17:02, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

kabuto said he had surpass the former users o this jutsu so maybe he dont need any corpse to bring the souls of the death--Sasuke exiled (talk) 19:54, April 9, 2010 (UTC)sasuke exiled

i don't think anybody knows the answer but please discuss this does itachi still have his sharingan and does nagato has his rinnegan ? its his soul so does the eye doujutsu sticks to it or does they have just normal eyes ?(i don't see nagato with normal eyes) --Petar93 (talk) 16:55, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Probably, when Orochimaru summoned Hashirama, he could still use Wood Release jutsu. Kekkei genkai appear to be tied to the soul. And since Kabuto claims he's better with the jutsu than Oro was, it's only logical to assume that they'll still have their abilities. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:29, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably should include it somewhere in the article that hashirama could still use his kekkei genkai. - S im A nt 17:41, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

it didn't seem my question to be stupid huh :D --Petar93 (talk) 19:28, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Summoning: IWR - special fuda tag
In the description of this skill, the returned soul retains its own free-will until a special fuda tag is placed. The descriptions describes how to destroy the returned soul - but never makes it clear if the soul can ever regain free-will. Would removing the fuda tag give the soul its free-will back? Or has this question not been addressed yet in the series? -Tofugolem 22:40, April 10, 2010 (EDT)


 * Unknown. Orochimaru places the tags in the Hokage's skulls, so removal wasn't really an option. ~SnapperTo 03:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Soul transfer
This jutsu brings the soul back into a body, then the body takes the souls shape... its just like Orochimaru's immortality jutsu, however we consider him to live afer the jutsu is use, then shouldn't Nagato, Itachi, Sasori, Deidara and Kakuzu be considered alive as well????--Silverblade1 (talk) 02:50, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Orochimaru isn't a mindless puppet, brought into this world by force and bound to another person's will. --ShounenSuki (talk 08:34, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Kabuto
The resurrected souls are aware of what's happening (when the 2nd told the 3rd that he was sorry), but are controlled by the summoner. Do the resurrected souls act more so defensively or offensively? Additionally if the new Kabuto is killed with these resurrected souls summoned, will the technique become void?--65.82.83.226 (talk) 14:48, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * The summoned souls would follow every command the summoner gives them no matter what it is, and I think if the summoner dies the bodies would just turn to dust.--Deva 27 (talk) 14:55, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do believe that the Third Hokage said that even if he killed Orochimaru, the First and Second Hokage would simply keep on fighting. --ShounenSuki (talk 15:14, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even if the caster dies, the revived souls keep on going but it is uncertain if their intentions remain the same after the caster dies.

Sasori
Due to the way the jutsu works is safe to assume that this revived sasor is made of flesh and bones as opposed to a living puppet as he was for most of his later life (his grandmother said he looked just as he did when he left the village and that was many yeras prior to the begining of the story). Does this mean that this Sasori have the memories of only when he was a living human? or does he retain his memories as a living puppet? remeber that after they were brought back both the 1st and 2nd had memories of their time alive and remeber the 3rd. WhiteStrike(talk) 22:24, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * He was still alive even though he was a puppet, so he would still have them.--Deva 27 (talk) 22:31, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

cheap!
doesn't the whole "cant be killed be normal means, must have soul removed to destory" take all the fun out of it??? whats the chance masashi well add a "time effect" where the revived return to human flesh? now that half the Akatsuki is back?--Silverblade1 (talk) 03:17, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

We don't know until we see it so we can only guess for now --Petar93 (talk) 04:32, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Resurrected Growth
Do the resurrected shinobi have the ability to advance their powers now? BlazeUchiha 10:00, April 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * even if they can do it i don't think they will do it on there own i mean if Kabuto is controlling them he will leave them at where their stats are (simple: Kabuto won't want that)


 * The answer to this question is unknown as no summoned person has been around long enough for try however it is doubtful that they can; being dead and all. ¥ S uper N ovice ↔ T alk 2 M e  ¥ 14:54, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Just throwing this out there to add to what many are overlooking...it could be Danzo (although not likely because Madara may not be so surprised to see him since he fought him). It could be Hanzou, which would cause some surprise i believe...or worse (in my opinion) it could be Jiraiya...which would be pretty messed up.

but when madara saw the las casquet he said "you bastard... . Where did you get that?" and since the soul is everything you need to perform the jutsu, it's most likely someone who's soul is sealed or destroyed even though only orochimaru and first and second hokage come to my mind81.10.220.248 (talk) 13:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I personally figured it would either be 1) Sage of Six Paths, or 2) Madara by some strange twist. Since other than the 1st hokage, theres no1 other than the Sage that would scare him, and if it was Madara that was resurrected, it'd kinda throw some real kinks into his "i'm madara" stuff, lol.--SkyFlicker (talk) 04:25, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Are the Resurrected Weaker?
I've often seen people say that those ressurected don't retain their full power. I somewhat agree with it because I doubt that Hiruzen, even though he's stated to be the "God of all Shinobi", would be able to beat both Hashirama (who has also been stated as the strongest Hokage along with Minato and Hiruzen) and Tobirama at the height of their power. I haven't seen it officially confirmed, but I could've missed it. Anyone? Skitts (talk) 18:12, July 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Some might call wound regeneration stronger, not weaker. ~SnapperTo 18:36, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Also, i wanted to know if their chakra levels could be depleted like normal people. Or if they have an infinite supply of chakra.Neji of the gentle fist (talk) 20:58, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * If their chakra is available than it must be tied to their souls, but since the souls cannot be destroyed I "think" that the chakra level does not drop. One other thing, one person once said that the shinobi of that time were weaker than the modern ones, and the 1st and 2nd showed no signs of tiring in the manga despite the high-level jutsu they were performing. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 22:35, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't remember if this line was anime-only, but Hiruzen said something like "they are as strong as ever". With that in mind, I would say this is similar to Mirrored Sudden Attacker Technique, they have a fixed amount of chakra, which doesn't drop. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:06, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't find any mention of Hiruzen saying they were at the same strength (at least in the manga), the closest thing was this http://onemanga.com/naruto/119/15 It could have been a mistranslation of course but that's all I could find, maybe it was said in the anime. @snapper I know that wound regeneration is a plus >_> What I was saying was that they didn't seem to be as powerful as they could have been, or at least said to have been. Not sure if that (if true) was the techniques doing or Orochimaru's (why he'd do that I'm not sure, unless he himself wanted to kill Hiruzen) *rant rant*
 * What about the 2nd using high level water jutsu attacks on dry land? That would require a lot of ability and power as well. Also, the wood jutsu the 1st used, breaking right through the building they are on and through the Earth Wall, would Yamato be capable of that (and yes we know his genes are not as strong, but it serves as a basis to start at)? Thomas Finlayson (talk) 17:16, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, they may be stronger for another reason. When Kabuto summoned Nagato and Itachi, they were fine. Nagato's article mentions how he was able to walk unhindered, and Itachi should not be weakened by his sickness since they technically have no bodies. Thus Nagato is now mobile and Itachi will not break down coughing blood as readily. Moreover, as long as no drop in chakra, they should not tire, so they will be able to outlast their opponents. I admit of course that the 1st and 2nd did not fight long enough to begin to show signs of becoming tired. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 17:45, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say they didn't display great power, but that they didn't seem as powerful as they were said to have been. On the note of Nagato and Itachi, that would be  a plus for Itachi, no terminal illness and deteriorating eyesight, but Nagato was more formmidable as the 6 Paths (assuming he can't use the technique in his ressurected state) so that might not help him so much. It might be as Omni said, maybe they have a set amount of chakra so they were unable to use their strongest techs, similar to those under the effect of Nagato's Shapeshifting Technique. Heh, then the resurrected Nagato will bring Kabuto back to life if he dies xP jk. Skitts (talk) 20:16, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Never said they wouldn't be able to use their stronger techniques. You should also remember that Orochimaru wiped their minds, so they were greatly restricted by that. They weren't ninja at that point, they were mindless tools. They had no autonomy whatsoever. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:58, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that a bad thing? They become true ninja that way. Moreover, Nagato was forced to use the 6 paths since he could not walk. Now he can, and with all of the abilities inside of him. This does make it easier to surprise him, but his offensive ability will be greater and with the Pains there were certain ways to deal with them and their abilities; not so much now. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 04:34, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

How??
Am I right in saying that the soul of the user of the Four Symbols Seal is sealed within the death god's stomach. If so how was Minato's soul used by Orochimaru just before his fight against the 3rd (in the 3rd coffin marked 'Four')? Bladeedalb (talk) 18:57, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * You dont' know if it were Minato. And even if in the anime every sign indicates Minato, remember one thing, in the manga there were only 2 coffins, not 3. So at most the third coffin was a mistake, or something to give more "momento" to the scene. L Mars (talk) 19:02, July 13, 2010 (UTC)