Talk:Rinnegan

Sasuke's Rinnegan
The general impression in the fandom is that Sasuke's Rinnegan is a special one and that's how we treat it here on the wiki. I think it's time to challenge this view once and for all. Sasuke doesn't really have a tomoed Rinnegan, he has the same Rinnegan as Hagoromo and Madara, the tomoe in his Rinnegan is his Sharingan, this was clearly demonstrated in Gaiden, where we saw his Rinnegan without tomoe, and when he activated Mangekyou Sharingan, the tomoe appeared. It was made very apparent.

The Rinnegan NEVER has tomoe. If there's tomoe, then it's either the Rinne Sharingan, or the user is using both the Rinnegan and Sharingan simultaneously. The main reason why the fandom believes that Sasuke's Rinnegan is a special tomoed Rinnegan, is because of the misconception that Sharingan and Rinnegan are evolutions/stages/forms/progressions of each other. With the introduction of Kaguya and Rinne Sharingan, this was proven wrong and the scenes of Sasuke in Gaiden are even more evidence.--Elve Talk Page 18:15, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * We don't treat Sasuke's Rinnegan as special. I made sure that his article explicitely states that the tomoe are from his Sharingan. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:16, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * The picture Sasuke's Rinnegan at full power is misleading though, it implies that the tomoe are the standard way his Rinnegan is supposed to look and that when they are not there. the Rinnegan is not at full power.--Elve Talk Page 18:23, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * True, I probably overlooked that^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 18:25, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it was kept like that because it was stated in gaiden that when Sasuke uses his portal to dimension jump, his visual power weakens, and that was the reason why his Rinnegan looked like the standard version. Sasuke Rinnegan is unique, but it isn't special in any way besides his teleportation ability. So I'd assume not only it was an oversight, but also for that reason. But the wiki never treated it special as I've seen.--— Kinglink15 (Kinglink15) 22:47, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * His Rinnegan didn't weaken, his chakra levels dropped considerably, hence why the tomoe disappeared, the tomoe being Sharingan.--Elve Talk Page 23:25, June 14, 2018 (UTC)
 * Aren't the tomoe part of the EMS? I see you made a similar edit on Sasuke's article, Tau. As a matter of fact, were the tomoe ever stated to be from the EMS, or was that a visual deduction from what was shown? 19:59, June 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, someone reminded me of my values, so I changed it. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:06, June 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Isn't visual deduction just stating something without using words? Why would the tomoe in his Rinnegan appear/disappear along with the Mangekyou in his other eye, if it weren't the Sharingan in fact?--Elve Talk Page 22:00, June 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * Who knows? It's not confirmed so I removed it. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:12, June 16, 2018 (UTC)
 * @Elve, visual deduction is the act of (in this case, us) drawing inferences based on what is seen, or what is shown without any verbal affirmations. There's nothing wrong with it, we do it all the time here on this wiki, since usually what is displayed in the manga is clear. I was just wondering if the tomoe on Sasuke's Rinnegan originating from his EMS was explicitly stated, but it doesn't appear it was. It may or may not have been shown, but it's unconfirmed according to Tau. 01:03, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

red Rinnegan
Looks like I was correct once again... there is no such thing as red Rinnegan. Momoshiki's Rinnegan is the ordinary color, as shown on official artwork. It's red only when he uses his technique.--Elve Talk Page 13:03, July 19, 2018 (UTC)

Though why do most Rinnegan users keep a purple Rinnegan when a technique is being used then? There’s also no reason as to why it goes red in the first place when Momoshiki uses a technique. Gavin The Otter (talk) 17:49, July 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * I believe Elve's argument is for when Momoshiki specifically uses Takamimusubinokami to absorb/release jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:29, July 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Exactly sir.--Elve Talk Page 22:00, July 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * It's also red in other occasions. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:30, July 19, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, but my point is that even after all his eyes turned golden, his Rinnegan changed back to red when he was doing stuff, meaning the red color isn't its default state, but rather an effect of something he does with the eyes.--Elve Talk Page 09:11, July 20, 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, after he transformed, that is certainly the case. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:09, July 20, 2018 (UTC)

Hagoromo Otsutsuki is not listed in the known wielders list, yet he was actually the first person to wield the Rinnegan. Koreanzero (talk) 23:32, January 9, 2019 (UTC)
 * fixed, thanks • Seelentau 愛 議 00:19, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

Urashiki
It's hard to tell since IIRC it was only seen in one shot when it wasn't glowing, but is Urashiki's "regular" Rinnegan blue or the regular purple? IMO it looks a bit more bluer than the regular one. --RexGodwin (talk) 14:56, November 10, 2019 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's the ordinary Rinnegan color, it just sometimes glows blue.--Elve Talk Page 15:41, November 12, 2019 (UTC)

Rinnegan forms
Alright, I think we need to do some updating and correcting. First, Momoshiki's Rinnegan is NOT red, his Rinnegan looks like the ordinary form of Hagoromo's, we saw this on artwork, cover and in the anime as well.... it just turns red for whatever reason, but it's not red all the time, that's my point.... so saying his is red and treating it as a different form is wrong.... it's silver/grey with purplish glow or whatever like we are used to and it turns red then on, so we should fix that. Kinshiki has 2 Rinnegan forms, with and without tomoe. The former, again, glows red but isn't actually red, the latter is the general Rinnegan form and sometimes glows blue. So this is the way I see it:
 * Rinnegan forms:
 * With 6 tomoe (not actually a form, just Sharingan used at the same time)
 * Without tomoe (the one and only form most possibly and likely)
 * Rinnegan colors:
 * the general silver/grey/purplish one
 * yellow Rinnegan (could actually be a form)

That's it.... there's no red Rinnegan or blue Rinnegan, just red glow and blue glow of the general Rinnegan. Just my opinion of course. EDIT: IMO the 6 tomoe Rinnegan isn't a form of Rinnegan in and of itself, just Rinnegan with Sharingan active simultaneously.... yes, I'm saying Urashiki's got the Sharingan.--Elve Talk Page 08:40, November 25, 2019 (UTC)
 * Bump--Elve Talk Page 15:45, November 27, 2019 (UTC)
 * Urashiki having Sharingan wouldn't be surprising at all. Dojutsu in general are all Otsutsuki originated anyways. FlatZone (talk) 21:05, November 27, 2019 (UTC)

Can't wait for next week, when Urashiki eats his Rinnegan to transform. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:12, November 28, 2019 (UTC)
 * Can't wait for you to give actual opinion on the entire eyeball business.--Elve Talk Page 17:33, November 29, 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't have an opinion. I don't watch the Boruto anime at all, the only information I get is from OD's tweets every now and then. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:06, November 29, 2019 (UTC)

While I agree that Urashiki's reddish tomoe Rinnegan is just Rinnegan and Sharingan at the same time, I understand not listing them as such until the anime makes this distinction. I may have added Sharingan to Urashiki's infobox myself when we first saw it, or at least not immediately reverted it upon sight. Regarding Momoshiki's, I'm ok with listing pure red Rinnegan as a form because in one of the iterations, that was the case. Movie poster aside, Momoshiki's Rinnegan were red all the time whether he was using jutsu or not prior to absorbing Kinshiki, at which point it became the standard colour, if I'm not mistaken. For Urashiki, I agree that the "blue" colour isn't an actual form, but rather a "power glow" of his basic looking Rinnegan. It's like the anime's Momoshiki red Rinnegan, that only happens when he's using jutsu. Prior to 135, where Urashiki gets yellow thrown into the mix, for listing purposes, I consider him to have two Rinnegan versions (regular and red tomoe), the regular one having the blue power glow for specific jutsu, the time rewind and origami vanish. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:22, December 1, 2019 (UTC)
 * This. But for Urashiki's red tomoe Rinnegan, is it red though? Red glow ain't the same as red color, the reasoning being the same that the 2nd Rinnegan has blue glow when using jutsu but isn't actually blue.--Elve Talk Page 15:31, December 2, 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, Urashiki's tomoe Rinnegan is clearly red in its default state. --Klue (talk) 17:39, December 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * Wait, hold up! The color of Urashiki's basic Rinnegan doesn't match the Hagoromo style. Looks pretty blue to me. --Klue (talk) 17:49, December 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected then, it seems like they are not just glows. In terms of the blue Rinnegan, while not glowing, while very similar to the general Rinnegan, it indeed has a very slightly different shade.--Elve Talk Page 12:54, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

wait.....
Doesn't Urashiki pretty much confirm, that Rinnegan CAN be deactivated?--Elve Talk Page 04:09, December 3, 2019 (UTC)

Source of sasuke's rinnegan
I don't believe his source is 100% from meeting Hagaromo, though I have no grounds to argue if it sped up the process of him gaining his. I believe that its more so the Hashirama cells kabuto pumped into him. it is established in the main story that an Uchiha infused with Hashirama's cells will develop the Rinnegan. Madara did take years for it to manifest but there are 2 main differences between him and Sasuke, that being amount and type. Madara only got a fairly small piece of Hashirama's flesh, while Sasuke had quiet a lot pumped directly into his heart. Second with type, Madara got plain normal cells, while kabuto states while healing him he is using "much-tinkered Hashirama cells". I believe these two factors are more likely what cause said power up, as they are both directly stated in the story. And (correct me if I'm wrong on this next part) but the only thing directly stated to have been given to Naruto and Sasuke was the sealing jutsu, chapter:674 Sasuke states the jutsu the sage of six paths gave you", though in that same chapter he does say he has six paths power, he would have gain that anyways from the combination of his Indra and the Ashura's chakra he got from the Hashirama cells. Hagaromo does say in chapter 671 that he would "share his power with you" to Sasuke, but whether that includes anything other than the jutsu would be speculation.{Theqwerty910|04:10, 3 January 2023}
 * He also directly received Hashirama's chakra from Hashirama himself, which also could have accelerated it. However, it is noteworthy that he only unlocked one Rinnegan, in the half that is on the same side as his Yin Seal, so it appears Hagoromo may still have had a part to play in him unlocking it (otherwise, he presumably would have unlocked it in both). Arcadia warlic (talk) 10:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, with the Hashi DNA pumped into his heart and the chakra that Hashirama gave him as well as the fact Sasuke is a reincarnate he would have indeed awakened the normal Rinnegan in time. Hagoromo lending him half of his own chakra sped the process up and somehow changed it into a one-eyed Rinnegan. At best this could be a trivia note though. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 05:53, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Amenotejikara's databook entry literally states Hagoromo gave it to him. Image showing Sasuke with Rinnegan and Naruto with SPSM in Naruto's databook 4 profile has a caption literally stating those were powers given to them by Hagoromo. The last section of Sasuke's profile, titled "Kaguya Otsutsuki" explicitly lists Rinnegan and the Yin seal separately as things he received from Hagoromo. People getting Hashirama flesh and chakra is moot for Rinnegan in present day, because what awakens Rinnegan is Hagoromo's chakra, which is Indra+Asura chakra, and Hashirama should no longer have Asura's chakra because Naruto is the current reincarnation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:48, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I hadnt looked into the databooks as, from what ive seen atleast, i thought they werent a reliable source. It might have been a poor translation but didnt one of them refer to Kakashi as omnipotent? Tho if they are reliable, would you be able to point me to where i could read decent translation, i would love to learn more about the series. Theqwerty910|07:11, 18 January 2023

@Omnibender Hashirama's DNA added to Sasuke when healing his heart would have taken awhile to awaken the Rinnegan which would have been the normal two eyed-Rinnegan. Hagoromo's chakra lending somehow turned it into the One-eyed Rinnegan. Naruto getting SPSM strictly because of Hagoromo is also rendered moot when you realize him losing Kurama made him also lose SPSM and now all he has is normal Sage Mode. We also need to remember it was implied by Madara and Kabuto that Kabuto used Hashirama's DNA and implanted it into the Edo body to re-awaken the Rinnegan as Kabuto hypothesized(he thought any Uchiha given Hashi DNA could do this, which is wrong.. but if he did this with Sasuke it would have worked too) which resulted in Madara again having the Rinnegan despite his Edo being from his VotE battle. It basically implies that the chakra one has from being a reincarnate is tied to their DNA meaning that chakra would remain having that quality and not change when another reincarnate appears. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 00:19, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Whatever Kabuto theorised, or whatever other possible source, we have actual, unambiguous conformation of where Sasuke's Rinnegan comes from. Hagoromo also mentioned that Ten-Tails jinchuriki, resurrected Madara is no longer Indra's reincarnate. If just DNA meant he remained Indra's reincarnation, he'd never stop being one, even as Edo Tensei since that it would still be his DNA, but that's not what Hagoromo said. Even when Hagoromo talks about how Madara awakened the Rinnegan, he frames Madara as doing that "before he finished being a reincarnate". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:38, 19 January 2023 (UTC)