Talk:Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken

herp derp
There ain't even a nature prefix to confuse us this time. If it were called Wind Release: Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken, you would have had a point Foxie, but there's no evidence of any nature's involvement. Some people just refuse to be wrong :P--Elveonora (talk) 11:19, May 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * He really could make our lives easier if he would just give Naruto some unique abilities. Moving on... if there is no elemental prefix, then logic would assume it is all Wind Release, as is the case with Mini-Rasenshuriken and the like. If IS an elemental prefix, then we assume that it is just that element in the technique, as is the case with Lava Rasenshuriken.
 * And we've seen water cut through metal, wind that does blunt force damage, a giant (#*@ing tree that can talk. I'm not buying that only wind nature chakra can cut.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:54, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * ^_ worth of mention is that the TBB didn't even have the Fuuton specific shuriken-like blades when it was being formed. It's clear to me that the shuriken shape is just shape transformation in case of this technique and Lavashuriken--Elveonora (talk) 11:58, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * While I personally believe that Wind Release is being used as part of the technique, I agree that it should be left off the page until confirmed.--Soul reaper (talk) 12:41, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Soul reaper. —「SaiST」Mangekyō Sharingan Sasuke (Eternal).svg 15:49, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Blades mean presence of wind chakra, I can't understand how people can be so obtuse about it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:30, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Time to back off it would seem. Children be all quiet and happy now, that being what matters the most. Indeed, another lecture that ignored ordinary chakra already having cutting properties and what shape transformation can do would be just too much.--Elveonora (talk) 22:55, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except that Rasenshuriken isn't normal chakra, it's wind chakra. Please go read on how it has blades because the wind chakra is used instead of regular chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:03, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * So air bullets are actually cutting things. Water that is strong enough to cut metal is moving in such a fashion that it is turning into wind. In fact, all the earth, water and fire dragons are exactly the same.
 * Because yes, only Wind Release produces shurikens. Only. However no need to stroke your own ego. Nobody has the will to keep fighting this stupid discussion. Congratulations.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 23:24, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * And thank God for that, because Omnibender is absolutely right. Sorry. Its absolutely mental to believe Rasenshuriken is anything other than wind. That's what it has and shall always be. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 00:52, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Chakra can be shaped into wolves, lions and so on, yet not into a shuriken you say, logic much--Elveonora (talk) 10:55, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * You're one to talk about logic. Right. Especially since Naruto adding wind chakra (to Wind Release: Rasengan) automatically gave it tiny shuriken blades. And I guess that also means that Mini-Rasenshuriken and Big Ball Rasenshuriken aren't Wind Release either, since, you know, you don't have "Wind Release" on a giant billboard to state for you the obvious. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 17:08, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Nothing really to add. Like I said, not going to fight the stupid fight. Congratulations.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:13, May 15, 2014 (UTC)


 * And I suppose the wind element is also an orange color? It actually is attributed with a white/absence of color. The blades on this are in fact made from Chakra, which also makes the same chakra coat that Naruto wears. Koriami (talk) 15:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

I honestly couldn't sit by and watch people confuse themselves. The Rasenshuriken's blades aren't made just from wind chakra, or Nature Transformation, but from Shape Transformation. Naruto simply picked the best shape possible (and the simplest) to make his wind chakra effective. The whole process, the shape transformation and the nature transformation, equates to Rasenshuriken.... sorry, WIND RELEASE; Rasenshuriken. Anything remotely involving Rasenshuriken has, by default, wind release because of such process. And there's nothing that can really change that... aside from Kishi himself.--Super Kurama (talk) 17:12, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

Pic
A pic could be gotten right? I cant get pictures so I cant. Munchvtec (talk) 16:46, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's better to wait for the raws for a better depiction. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 18:40, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Am I seeing things...
...or is Naruto using one of the black orbs? • Seelentau 愛 議 20:14, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * How about this? Seems Naruto used one of those black orbs when he performed this Rasengan (The second orb from the left). — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 20:22, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Na, that's his staff reverting to its original orb form, since they can only stay in a certain form for so long. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:23, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure, black balls are... black. We have so many black balls/substances that we can't tell them apart--Elveonora (talk) 20:30, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe this is a case of simply waiting for how the anime will depict them, or waiting until coloured manga versions appear to clear up the confusion... --Speysider Talk Page 20:44, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, in the panel Naruto throws it, we can still count four of the six orbs he still has. I think that's only a bad angle. That attack went way up high in the sky where the Chibaku Tensei were, and the TSB have a control-range of 70m. I think those CT were higher than that, so Naruto wouldn't have been able to control them so far. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:22, May 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * Probably an oversight or something. No reason to ask Kurama for chakra to create a Tailed Beast Ball, when we could have just used one of his Truth Seeking Balls. Either way, I doubt he's using one of them for the attack.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 22:27, May 14, 2014 (UTC)

Omni-kun, there's no need for Naruto to control it after he has thrown it, though. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:38, May 15, 2014 (UTC)

On another note: There are no signs of the usual chakra blobs that form the Bijudama. Also, we already know that the Bijudama is made of Yin and Yang chakra. So... • Seelentau 愛 議 10:40, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Never stated. It's positive black and negative white chakras, not YYR--Elveonora (talk) 10:57, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't say YYR, I said Yin chakra and Yang chakra. Yin is positive black and Yang is negative white. It was stated that the Biju are made of those two chakra types and Minato split Kurama in Yin and Yang. You'd have to be really blind not to see the connection. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:07, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not really, Yang Kurama could do a TBB just fine. People take the Yin Fox/Yang Fox split too literary despite us knowing so little about it--Elveonora (talk) 11:10, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, then let's leave that aside. There are still the "no chakra blobs" and the "movement sign" arguments open to discussion. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:14, May 15, 2014 (UTC)

In the colored version, it's even more obvios that it's a TSB that's floating to Naruto's palm... guys, come on... • Seelentau 愛 議 09:46, May 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Now I'm confused.--10:44, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:46, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have not seen these colored pages so I don't know what you are talking about. Did he use a Tailed Beast Ball, a Truth Seeking Ball, magic Naruto fun time magic?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 10:47, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I claim that he used a Truth Seeking Ball, based on a) the missing "assmbling" of the YinYang-Chakra needed for a Tailed Beast Ball and b) the floating movement and the sound word. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:53, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * I do just want to chime in, we've seen Naruto and B fire Continuous Tailed Beast Balls without showing the gathering of chakra and the floating movement sound. Similar to how we've seen Naruto preform Rasengans without him first showing us him summoning a clone and swirling the chakra, or practically any technique that requires handseals forgoing the handseal part.--10:53, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * I know, but then the new chapter came and Naruto fired six BRS and his TSB vanished. Coincidence? I don't think so. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:57, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Honestly it could have been an oversight. Kishimoto has made them before. Countless times. I don't know. I don't much care either so do whatever you feel is necessary.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * An oversight of six black orbs for half of the chapter? I doubt that. The only problem is the inconsistency of how many orbs Naruto actually has. When he came back to life, he had 7 orbs and 2 rods, then he used 3 rods to capture Madara's shadow, presumably 1 orb for the first BRS and 6 for the ones in this chapter, leaving him with -1 orb. My solution to that problem is that he used Madara's rod, which impaled Sakura. Since Madara is most likely out of control of that orb, it should be no problem for Naruto to use it. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:13, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

I'm cool with listing TSB as a parent to this if others wish so, them vanishing when Naruto used all those TBBRS is enough for me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:05, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Kinjutsu
Why is every version of Rasenshuriken dubbed Kinjutsu? The original Wind Release: Rasenshuriken was labelled a kinjutsu because of the drawback. The drawback has been solved with the original technique and has never been mentioned when it comes to new variations, so it seems unneeded in the infobox. SasookayIsRlyCoo (talk) 03:44, May 15, 2014 (UTC)SasookayIsRlyCoo
 * That's what I was thinking but what can ya do.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 10:22, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that we should remove the kinjutsu classification from the Rasenshuriken and derivatives? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:19, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Ulti, that doesn't make any sense at all, the infobox should document the technique in its original use, not with modifications--Elveonora (talk) 17:36, May 15, 2014 (UTC)
 * If I wasn't clear, the original Wind Release: Rasenshuriken is a kinjutsu as was declared by Tsunade. Every other Rasenshuriken he made however wasn't given such classification. Especially since the reason it was made a kinjutsu was because it could royally screw Naruto over because he couln't throw it, and now every variation of the technique can be thrown.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:11, May 15, 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't a picture be added?
Well two? I think when the RAW is out we should add the BFRS itself and its explosion to show its aftermath?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 18:45, May 17, 2014 (UTC)
 * All the usual places I check for RAWs don't have them yet. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:13, May 17, 2014 (UTC)

not wind release
Official coloring confirms so.--Elveonora (talk) 22:36, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Rasenshuriken has always been like that in the official coloured version, all the way back to when it was used against Kakuzu. Here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:38, May 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed. If anything it only furthers the argument that it is Wind Release, because Kishimoto colored the original Wind Release Rasenshuriken as red, when it has Kurama's chakra, to begin with way back in its inception. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 04:43, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Link doesn't work for me, but I believe I know which image you are referring to. I recall that Kishimoto had originally intended for the Rasenshuriken to be red/orange, but scrapped the idea. As you can see, Wind Release: Rasengan is light-blue on volume 58 cover. I also recall it being light-blue in an official chapter coloring.--Elveonora (talk) 11:11, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * The digital colour comics consistently depict the Rasenshuriken as orange or yellow.--Soul reaper (talk) 11:14, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Those aren't colored by Kishimoto tho--Elveonora (talk) 11:24, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * ... your point? This is one of the digital colour comics, it's just an early release, like we had once before. The colouring of the TBB Rasenshuriken is coloured here as the rasenshuriken has been in all other colour comics versions of the series.--Soul reaper (talk) 12:29, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, then it's irrelevant anyway since it isn't done by Kishimoto and I think shouldn't be labeled canon--Elveonora (talk) 16:09, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Who labeled them canon? You were the one trying to use it as an argument against the Wind Release, which it wouldn't have been anyways. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 16:20, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * It would, since Wind Release Rasengan is colored as blue by Kishimoto. So if this one were done by him, it would have meant it ain't wind release.--Elveonora (talk) 16:32, May 20, 2014 (UTC)
 * Again; Rasenshuriken is Wind Release, period. If it has the name "Rasenshuriken" in it, then Naruto's using the steps to make it; Wind Chakra included. Shape and Nature Transformations. The color shouldn't have a damn thing to do with it aside from Kurama's influences. Not to mention, the Rasengan was influenced from the Bijudama; it shouldn't be hard to figure out that Naruto just combines the two (Bijudama and Rasenshuriken) for this absurdly powerful technique.--Super Kurama (talk) 15:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Elevenora Except, Wind Release Rasenshuriken with the Kyūbi's influence was drawn as red by Kishimoto way back in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc, so again, your logic fails. This jutsu has been and always shall be Wind Release. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 15:44, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

@Foxie, pics or didn't happen--Elveonora (talk) 16:59, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Had you bothered to do your own research, you'd know that the image in question sits at the bottom of the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken page. Been there for ages. In fact, it was linked to you in literally the second response of this conversation. Edit: Also shown in the official colored volumes during the fight with Kakuzu. Again, its as simple as looking. You can see that image here ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 18:20, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * "Was considering" changed his mind obviously, since it's light-blue in its latest official colorings. Also the digital volume is irrelevant, it's only "official" as far as anime is "official"--Elveonora (talk) 18:37, May 21, 2014 (UTC)

Truth-Seeking Ball
In the latest chapter, we can see that Naruto doesn't have the balck orbs near him, which leads me to believe that the article's jutsu is built on a Truth-Seeking Ball. Your thoughts?--JOA20 (talk) 06:48, May 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Nice catch, though I wouldn't know how to edit that info into the article. --Questionaredude (talk) 07:41, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed, this supports what I stated above. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:36, May 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds right to me. It happened in the previous chapter but it wasn't as clear. This chapter confirms it.--Soul reaper (talk) 11:07, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed.--Elveonora (talk) 11:38, May 21, 2014 (UTC)
 * Are you sure it isn't just a regular Bijuudama? Naruto still has his Truth-Seeking Balls, though it appears that only six of them. Xfing (talk) 16:42, June 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * We are sure he made the TBBs outta the TSBs. Although it's no surprise considering that TSBs are Tailed Beast chakra--Elveonora (talk) 16:54, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

And he only has six because the other three were shaped into stakes to bind Madara's first Limbo shadow, last seen under the watchful eye of one of his shadow clones. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:29, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

And because when he used the Multiple TBB Rasenshuriken, the six TSBs were temporarily gone. WindStar7125 (talk) 00:41, June 7, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

Ying-Yang Release
We know that With help from Kurama, Naruto adds wind-natured chakra to a Truth-Seeking Ball creating the characteristic shuriken-like blades and we also knows that TSB's type is Ying-Yang Release that's mean TBBRS as well is a ying-yang release + wind-natured chakra Asesino04 (talk) 09:30, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * Showed no signs of ninjutsu cancelling effects yet, so no. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 12:12, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

Kurama's Contribution
I could be wrong but after knowing that Naruto could borrow the other Tailed Beasts' Chakra to create techniques, doesn't this article say something like Kurama is the one providing the wind Chakra? --MERCURIOUS (talk) 12:19, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why does everyone think Kurama contributed anything to the technique? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:34, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Kurama doesn't have Wind Release chakra according to the manga. — Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol.svg (Talk) 13:40, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * @Seel, maybe because Naruto called out to the fox when he made the jutsu? Regardless, all we know is that Naruto asked Kurama for help, nothing more nothing less.--JOA20 (talk) 14:50, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that Kurama provided Wind chakra, English isn't my first language so when the article says something like "with Kurama's help, Naruto add wind nature chakra" it looked to me like Kurama is the one providing it. @JOA also didn't Kurama provide the Bijuudama chakra for the jutsu--MERCURIOUS (talk) 17:31, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * JOA, Naruto called out to him and Kurama answered. There is no sign at all that Kurama did anything else than that. Also, Naruto didn't ask for help, he just said Kurama's name, if I recall correctly. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:06, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * He said Kurama, and Kurama acknowledged. Unless Naruto is able to create Tailed Beast Balls without a tailed beast, the Tailed Beast Ball was Kurama's contribution. Not sure what was difficult about that.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 18:09, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * But what did Kurama contribute? Naruto was shown to be capable of utilizing the negative white and positive black chakras himself during the training and Wind is his. Unless Yin Kurama is unlike Yang Kurama and he doesn't have free access to its chakra due to a new seal--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well, like how all tailed beasts have special abilities (Shukaku's cursed seal, Son Goku's Lava Release), Kurama's special ability might be the Tailed Beast Ball. Think about it, when Naruto fought against Yang Kurama and took its chakra (thereby activating the Nine-Tails chakra mode cloak for the first time), it could still produce a TBB many times its own size. Also, when Naruto 1st activated Tailed Beast Mode with Yang Kurama, the TBB matched the power of five tailed beasts' combined TBBs. Now Naruto asks Yin Kurama to create a TBB along with his Rasenshuriken? It's looking like Kurama's specialty is the TBB. While all other Tailed Beasts have special abilities in terms of elements, seals, etc., Kurama's strongest area seems to be the TBB. WindStar7125 (talk) 18:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * Ulti, Naruto didn't create a TBB for this technique, he used the black orbs. I thought that was already made clear? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:46, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe that's what he was doing, he was "infusing" the TSB with a TBB, so to speak. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:51, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Which raises an even greater question about Kurama's role in its creation--Elveonora (talk) 18:52, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * As I said, you can see that he uses one of the orbs. It's pure speculation to say that Kurama had anything to do with this technique, just because Naruto called out to him. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:32, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Why would he have done so otherwise?--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * To signal that he's going to attack, obviously. People tend to do that. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:43, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Well, you are free to remove it.--Elveonora (talk) 19:49, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Seel, forgive me but that is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard you suggest. "I'm going to use a Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken now. Just thought you'd like to know Kurama."
 * Really? Really? I mean godsdamnit Really?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:02, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I mean godsdamnit really. Like holy piss and shit really. I mean now we are just going full on hat on ass. Why the flying fuck would he even bother calling it a tailed beast ball, a technique that requires a tailed beast, if it for all intensive purposes is just freaky chakra? Like godsdamnit really.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:06, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

No idea, but nowhere in that moment is there a sign of a TBB being formed or used. On the other hand, there are multiple signs that it was in fact a TSB. You know me, I'm the last one who'd speak against the manga and probably one of the most unbiased users here, so I'm saying this with all seriousness: Despite its name, there was no TBB created for this technique. However, it could be that a TBB and a TSB are one and the same. But that's another topic, I guess. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:13, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's quite possible that this technique is a TBB in name only. Perhaps instead of providing negative white and positive black chakras, Yin Kurama indeed provided the Wind Release in this one. Gosh, there's too many unknowns...--Elveonora (talk) 20:17, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I mean godsdamnit why does everything have to be so godsdamned difficult here? I mean da fuck would be the point of even wasting a panel on Kurama? Hell you partially made the stupid that is this even a thing by suggesting a tailed beast ball is a Truth Seeking Ball. Like godsdamn how does something that was so simple become so damned stupid.
 * Seriously, Kurama + Naruto x Wind Chakra = Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken. It's not even complex. It doesn't even require any logical jumps. Just look at the damned manga. I mean godsdamnit to hell.
 * I'm done. Do whatever the hell ya'll want with this technique. Because fucking shit fuck.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 20:20, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Mental collapse much? You get angered so easily... you should be wary of strokes and heart attacks. The whole points are:


 * Naruto used an already cast TSB to form this, so where does Kurama come into play?
 * There was no channeling of negative white and positive black chakras done

Know this though, you aren't alone in this, we all are frustrated from the lack of proper explanations given--Elveonora (talk) 20:29, June 10, 2014 (UTC)


 * Congratulations. You guys broke TheUltimate. In all honesty, he's right, though. You have to be some sort of genius to see Naruto call on Son Goku for assistance with a Rasenshuriken, Shukaku for assistance with a Rasengan, and then look at him calling on Kurama and say, "Nope. Nothing to see here." How one even comes to that conclusion is so beyond my line of thought, it actually makes me head hurt thinking about it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:30, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * See? Now you know what I felt like when I tried to explain that Orochimaru wasn't sealed by Itachi, because there wouldn't have been a need to put emphasis on random snakes in 2-3 panels ;)--Elveonora (talk) 20:35, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * The thing is, in both other instances, Naruto asked for help more or less. There was an actual conversation about what to do with the chakra. In this case, he just says Kurama's name and it responds with "Yeah". Naruto doesn't ask for help, there's no fluctuating of chakra and he obviously used a TSB. Kurama had nothing to do with this technique. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:37, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps having decided to actually try something out by himself, he just wanted Kurama's approval and he was given it, hence the "yeah" :D--Elveonora (talk) 20:42, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm done. Logic has absolutely flown out the window on this wiki, dived through a ravine, and into an abyss of willful ignorance. There is no reason, are you hearing me?, none, for those two panels to exist, unless Naruto was signalling Kurama for use of his chakra. B makes it very clear in the chapters in which he trained Naruto that without becoming a tailed beast, a TBB can't even be formed, so Naruto obviously needs the power of Kurama to make one. He did not turn the TSB into a TBB in that instance, he did so later when throwing the multiplied variation; it simply formed in his hand like the Super Mini-Tailed Beast Ball does, or did we forget that was a thing too? /rant Now if you'll excuse me, I need a whole lot of booze if I'm going to continue with these two topics I'm in. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 20:45, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Seel, please...... just stop. It's not going to sound sane with reiteration.. -- Koto Talk Page-My Contributions 20:47, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Then where's the fluctuation of the two chakras? And why are there movement lines next to the orb? @Koto, there's nothing else I can do. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:49, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Isn't there at least 1 manga instance in which the chakra gathering was skipped before the ball got fired?--Elveonora (talk) 21:55, June 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * Dunno, but even if there is, it still leaves open the movement lines. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:59, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

OK this conversation doesn't even make sense anymore. We know Son Goku contributed to the Lava Release Rasenshuriken, we know Shukaku contributed to the Magnet Release Rasengan, Then Naruto calls out to Kurama the same way he does to Son Goku and Shukaku, and all of a sudden, it's a special case? @Seel, if Kurama didn't contribute the Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken, then Son Goku and Shukaku didn't contribute to the LRRS and MRR, respectively. Where did you get the idea that Kurama didn't contribute? Hell, why is this a topic on the talk page? Kurama contributed the same way the other two tailed beasts did. WindStar7125 (talk) 23:14, June 10, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125
 * The other two contributed chakra natures, but what did Kurama contribute? Just chakra? Except no, Naruto turned his already cast TSB into the TBB, so he didn't need further chakra--Elveonora (talk) 10:34, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * WindStar, where did you get the idea that Kurama did contribute? Because Naruto said his name? Naruto actually asked the other beasts for their chakra (more or less), while in Kurama's case, not one word implies that Naruto needed any help from Kurama. He said his name and Kurama responded. That's all we see in the manga, everything beyond that is pure speculation on your side. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:37, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Even a day later, the sheer amounts of fuck it stupid remains. I thought a day would allow me clarity, but no. Still sheer unadulterated stupid. If you really want to get rid of it just fucking do it already. Nobody is going to convince you otherwise and I would much rather have a costly wiki wide edit war than to see this...."point" go on any further.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:44, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Except his point is completely valid. You assume that there was something more to it and the fact is, Kurama did have nothing to contribute, Naruto was already using its chakra at the moment and had cast the truth seeking balls--Elveonora (talk) 11:47, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Ulti, why're you so upset about this? I'm making points and all I see is you guys saying why you're right, but not why I'm wrong. I can list my points again, if you want. But I'm not going to edit stuff we have not agreed upon. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:49, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) It's TheUltimate3. I accept TU3 or TheUltimate.
 * 2) I'm upset because this is the kind of shit that makes this place back breakingly stupid to work with. Something as simple, as obvious, as so fucking standard can get a stick rammed up it's ass and twisted because Kishimoto didn't explicitly state something. Because you two seem to think everybody on the planet is so godsdamned stupid that we require Kishimoto to provide us the very logical loops he himself has already given us before doing anything.
 * 3) I mean holy shit people, this technique is called "Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuirken". A technique we know needs the use of a Tailed Beast. Who is Naruto's true tailed beast? Kurama. Even ignoring the in story explanations of such, why the actual fuck would Kishimoto waste a panel to do something that isn't even necessary. "Hey Naruto doesn't need Kurama to make Tailed Beast Balls, so I'm just going to show him say Kurama's name as he makes a Tailed Beast Ball because fuck it all right." Like godsdamnmit seriously.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 11:55, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Aye, got that.
 * 2) That's the manga's fault. This is just another example for why we need a fact policy. I say "add only what was said", you say "add what was said and the most logical meaning" or so.
 * 3) I understand what you're meaning, but he isn't creating a TBB there. This may sound farfetched, but what if TBB and TSB are one and the same? We never heard Naruto calling those orbs TSB, did we? • Seelentau 愛 議 11:59, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * /sigh. Okay. Like I said, do what you want. I don't have the energy for this.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:02, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * It's just a stupid manga, man. Calm down^^ • Seelentau 愛 議 12:04, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

It's about the wiki that I've spent the better half of seven years helping run that has in the last year decided to go hog monkey with believing that our readers are to stupid to use what was already presented to us to figure even the simplest shit out. I mean we've actually reached the point where we have to sit here and say "Uhhh a tailed beast ball had no contribution from a tailed beast! In fact I say it isn't even a tailed beast ball! (But why did Naruto call it one? Why would Kishimoto even waste a panel then?) Mraaaa who cares? It's not a Tailed Beast Ball!".
 * It's like watching something you've put so much time and energy into, and watch someone come up and punch you in the dick because of it. Punch you straight in the dick over and and over and then sit there and laugh about it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:12, June 11, 2014 (UTC),
 * Forget the above. A long needed rant, but this is neither the place nor the time. As I said, do whatever you want.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:19, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Weird. I call you Ulti all the time and you do not seem bothered, but when someone else does so, you feel the need to correct them :P just my observation--Elveonora (talk) 12:21, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I've told you to call me TheUltimate3 three plenty of times in the past. I just stopped trying with you.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg (talk) 12:22, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh man, I'm sorry that all this made you feel dickpunched, believe me. I'm an editor in the German Narutopedia since seven years, too. I know exactly what you're dealing with. But maybe that's why I want everything as clearly stated as possible, and I wouldn't have brought this whole topic up if it wasn't worth it. But well, if it's ending in such a stupid way, let's not change anything and just wait. I'd rather have no conclusion than one someone's not happy with. • Seelentau 愛 議 12:27, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

@Seel, to answer your question, this is what I see (not that it matters, my first comment on this was completely ignored): Son Goku's chakra mending with Naruto's Rasenshuriken to create the LRRS, and Shukaku's cursed seal mending with Naruto's Rasengan to create the MRR. Due to the way Naruto called out to Kurama (the same way as the others), isn't it plausible that Kurama created the Tailed Beast Ball, and Naruto combined it with his Rasenshuriken? Just like how Naruto combined his Rasenshuriken and Rasengan with the other Tailed Beasts? WindStar7125 ( talk) WindStar7125 (talk) 17:58, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * As I said multiple times already, Naruto did not call out to Kurama in the same way as he did to the other beasts.
 * Also, the "TBB" was no TBB, but a TSB. This was hinted at by the moving lines and confirmed when Naruto used the multiple TBBRS later. Also, the usual accumulation of the YY chakra used in a TBB is missing here. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:09, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the TSB already are tailed beast chakra, there was literary nothing for Kurama to do there--Elveonora (talk) 19:50, June 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have to give you props. For you to type that, actually thinking to yourself that you're making any sort of logical conclusion at all. That's... that's just incredible. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol.svg 02:30, June 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not making any logical conclusions. I'm saying you what the manga showed. You're the guys who're interpreting a call for help in the word "Kurama". • Seelentau 愛 議 08:21, June 12, 2014 (UTC)