Talk:Hiruzen Sarutobi

Cleanup

 * This edit could use some cleanup. It's overly fanatic and contains POV. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Feb 20, 2008 @ 06:03 (UTC)

What is wrong with the article...?
something is defenetly wrong with this article... could someone clean this up.

To whoever cleaned it up... thank you

My recent edits
I changed a couple of things to the page which I'll explain here. --ShounenSuki 16:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed every mention of Sarutobi being the Third Hokage's surname to it being his old name. The reason is two-fold. First, there is strong evidence of Sarutobi being the Third's given (and likely only) name and not his surname. Second, the Hokage title works the same as, for instance, the stage names of Kabuki actors. In other words, Hokage is not so much a title as it is an actual name all but replacing his old name. In fact, either the first or the second databook literally calls Sarutobi the Third's "old name".
 * I changed the kanji for his nickname (猿) to the katakana サル. This is how his nickname is written in the manga. Also, it is only the Second Hokage that calls him Saru. The First Holage simply calls him Sarutobi.
 * I removed the mention of, since it isn't named in either the manga, or the databooks, nor is it ever explained how it works. If anybody has a source that does give this information, please mention it.

Uh huh. What about Konohamaru then? He calls himself a Genin of the Sarutobi Clan.

About the "replacing name" thing: not sure about that. People are still calling the Fifth "Tsunade" just as much as they are calling her "Godaime". I think Godaime and Hokage are both titles which are more formally used (Hokage used to address whoever the leader of the village happens to be at the time, while Godaime refers specifically to the Fifth), used in the same way as "President" or "Your Majesty"
 * First of all, why did you reply to a two-year-old discussion?
 * Second of all, in Japanese, the difference between names and titles is far less distinct than in English. The Hokage title falls between a normal title (e.g. queen) and a regnal name (e.g. Elisabeth II). It is very much similar to the stage names taken on by kabuki actors (e.g. actor Natsuo Horikoshi took on the name Jūnidaime Ichikawa Danjūrō, or Ichikawa Danjūrō XII in English).
 * Basically, the Hokage title replaces their old name in practically every aspect of life and it would be a faux pas to address them with their old name, unless you were familiar with them or of higher or equal social rank. Of course, in the beginning it would be difficult to switch, but years into the reign of a Hokage, it would be rare to find someone who still uses the old name, but wasn't intimately familiar with the Hokage. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:48, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * a) Apologies...didn't notice the date
 * ...in any case though, I had a point to make and this looked like the most relevant section at the time.


 * b) About the names...it's kinda the same thing. After all, we don't usually call the Queen of England "Elisabeth II" unless we're distinguishing between different monarchs. We usually refer to her as "The Queen", or more properly "Her Majesty" (taking into account the fact that Japanese culture places more emphasis on respect than western culture). Ignore the President example, it was perhaps bad seeing as we change Presidents so often.


 * c) We agree that Sarutobi was his Surname?

Third databook
I was able to find a scan of the Third Hokage's article in the third databook (thanks to whoever uploaded it). If you want to see it, go here. I'll add some of the details. --ShounenSuki 19:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow, a lot of first names have been revealed since I last came to Narutopedia. ~Kakashi Namikaze (talk) 11:01, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I read Naruto Manga since the first chapter, and till now (Cap. 423) none was revelated about the first name of Sarutobi, so I don't believe that this is your real name (the same for Raiga who is considered a member of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist only in anime, but he don't appear in manga). --Brunoy Anastasiya Seryozhenko ( Talk )  05:00, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * You don't have to believe it. But it's right.--TheUltimate3 05:24, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

When?
When and where was theird and second hokages first name revealed?Saimaroimaru 15:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Third databook. Jacce 15:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Name?
When did we ever learn that his name was Hiruzen? I have never heard of this before.
 * Please read the talkpage before you post. Both of the sections above the one you posted say where his name was released. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Nov 12, 2008 @ 01:22 (UTC)

Earth natured or fire natured?
the third hokage hiruzen can use both earth and fire style jutsus. even though he can use two elements, which element is his chakra naturally lean to. i believe it is earth natured because he uses more earth style jutsus than fire ones.

By JohnnyB317 Feb Friday 13, 2009


 * We simply do not know. It was never stated. Also, at least in the manga, he uses both Fire Release and Earth Release once. --ShounenSuki (talk 21:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't it stated that he knew all of the techniques in the village? Wouldn't this imply that he was capable of every nature? 71.74.188.27 (talk) 02:25, June 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * "said to" ≠ fact. "knew" ≠ can perform. I know the Rasengan, but I can't use it in most everyday situations. ~SnapperTo 02:34, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

refer to him as sarutobi
seeing as he is always referred to as "sarutobi" shoudnt the article refer to kim as sarutobi, not "hiruzen"Hollow Flash (talk) 23:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We refer to Naruto with Naruto, don't we? Would be strange to suddenly refer to somebody else with their surname, although that's what the characters normally say. ~Hakinu (talk 23:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * We do refer to Might Guy as Guy though. ~ NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jul 20, 2009 @ 00:41 (UTC)

That is his stage name not his real name.Hey word on the streets is Vegerot rocks!Vegerot (talk) 23:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

If the databooks, artbooks, and almost all sources are correct, Might Guy is is real name. And by the titans don't use that "Hey word on the streets" thing again.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 23:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

in the bleach wiki they sometimes refer to characters by their surname as well as their given, in the Kisuke Urahara article they refer to him as "Urahara" as well as "Kisuke"Hollow Flash (talk) 13:46, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Much less confusing if we keep to one name, though. ~Hakinu (talk 13:55, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The third databook (which revealed the Third Hokage's given name) seems to prefer "Hiruzen," in parallel with practically all other characters' names. Might Guy and Rock Lee seem to be exceptions and it could very well be that Might and Rock are something like nicknames. --ShounenSuki (talk 00:04, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

just because the databook refers to him as hiruzen, the manga refers to him as sarutobi, the manga is a primary source

The.. databook is at least just as important as the manga. It contains much more, and much more accurate information than what the manga does. Also, sign your comments, please. ~Hakinu (talk 23:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

sarutobi's label
there is no reference in this article to Sandaime being hailed as "the god of the shinobi". Orochimaru said that during their battle,in the manga- chapter 121 page 03.

you may be right
but in the naruto arena mission for the 3rd hokage it says god of shinobi and for the second and first hokage it says the resurection of the second i resrurection of the first these say the time when orochimaru revived the former kages with his jutsu Sartorias (talk) 18:05, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Young Sarutobi Images.
Someone needs to post the images of Hiruzen from Naruto Shippuden 127 and 128, and having images soley from Part I is not always a good thing in my opinion. Showing an image of Young Hiruzen under the abilities section or anywhere swould be rather brilliant :)--Bartallen2 (talk) 11:33, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll get on it in a bit...--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 11:46, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Done..--AlienGamer--Talk (contribs)-- 14:07, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

original design
i have a picture of the original design of sarutobi... if you think it will be a good contribution to the wiki let me know --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 21:33, October 27, 2009 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Unnamed Collaboration Jutsu
Can somebody make a page about the collaboration attack in the begin of the battle with Orochimaru. Kakuzu has his Katon/Futon collaboration jutsu even if it was unnamed and without the exact techs named, so there is no reason not. So can someone please do it. I Don't know how really.--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 02:25, November 17, 2009 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan

more hype
In chapter 140 page 04, Kabuto sais that "it is said" that Hiruzen was the strongest of the 5 Kages although we cant conclude that it referce to the Kages from the last chapters (maybe only to onoki).

Look at his stats. Not only is he the only Kage, but the only shinobi of all with stats to have 5/5 in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. He also has 5/5 intellegence and hand seals. The only reason he has 3/3 in Strength, Speed and Stamina is due to his age. Thus, in his prime, it is likely his stats would have been 40/40, making him the strongest shinobi of all those that are given stats (likely, Nagato, Madara, etc. would be stronger).

They'd be tied at best as 40/40 is the ninja peak stat level. No one can be stronger than that. Plus, the stats are 5 different tiers. People who have incredible strength are 5 tiers in strength. So Tsunade, Jirobo, Gai, Sakura are 5 tiers in strength, doesn't mean they have the same strength, they are just in the top tier in strength. See my example? Oh and the databook stats are stats without any extra influence. Another words without the influence of cursed seal, kekkei genkei or jinchuriki powers. So Hiruzen is most definitely One of the top shinobi period in his old age, In his prime he would of been the best, right there with the Rikudo Sennin. As he was stronger than Hashirama and Tobirama by his own admission, and since Hashirama defeated Madara in his prime. Using your brain you would find Prime Hiruzen is right there with Rikudo Sennin before he became the Juubi's host. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:47, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Young Sarutobi
Someone needs to post an image of Young Sarutobi from the latest Chapter.--Bartallen2 (talk) 16:41, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Age
How old do you think he is? probably like 60 or something close to that.


 * Sign ur signature. And it says it in his Inofbox:


 * Age:
 * 68 - 69 (Deceased) --KiumaruHamachi (talk) 16:09, May 20, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

Family Section
Why isn't Konohamaru Sarutobi listed in the family section of his info box?Umishiru (talk) 05:44, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Fixed.Umishiru (talk) 06:02, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Reign
Is anyone else uncomfortable with Danzo's flashback in Ch 481? People always refer to the Fourth as a young Hokage, and suddenly we're told Sarutobi becomes Hokage when he's still in his nappies (or at least waaaay before Team Sarutobi is formed). Perhaps that scene has a fairly anticlimatic end... i.e. the kids all escape, The Second beats everyone and they all live happily ever after...or at least for a few more years.
 * The people who call the Fourth a young Hokage lived in an era where the Third Hokage was already very old. The Third may have been younger than the Fourth when they first became Hokage, but that is simply no longer how the people view the Third. --ShounenSuki (talk 12:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
If its mentioned he shares a nickname with the Sage of Six Paths, then shouldn't the fact that both use a staff be mentioned as well?


 * The two staffs have almost nothing in common. ~SnapperTo 03:21, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Retirement
Is it ever actually said that Hiruzen retired when Minato took office? Recent chapters indicate Hiruzen still had some amount of official responsibilities during Minato's reign. ~SnapperTo 03:48, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, actually, the first databook mentions it. Although, given the nature of the Hokage title, perhaps abdicated is a better word. Many abdicated monarchs are still somewhat involved with the job, helping their new successor get the hang of things and such. Especially when the new monarch has other things to worry about, like a pregnant wife about to give birth. --ShounenSuki (talk 11:18, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's what I was thinking, but it seemed odd that he had his own personal ANBU too. ~SnapperTo 17:33, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That might be because they were still in a transition period. Those ANBU have spent most of their lives working under the Third. the Third knows what missions are going on and which ANBU are good at what. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:41, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Became Hokage
Does anybody know at what age he became hokage?

Could we add an information that he's youngest person ever elected as the hokage at his trivia?


 * It has never been stated directly, but the various hints and clues point at him having been in his mid-teens to mid-twenties, with his teens being more likely.
 * Unfortunately, without knowing the exact ages of him and the other Hokage, we cannot say he was the youngest with certainty. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:32, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Namikaze Minato was the youngest hokageGiotis (talk) 18:46, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your well-phrased input, based in solid, indisputable facts. It has been utterly invaluable to this disc—
 * Oh wait, it was a random shout with no argument or facts to support it at all... Sorry 'bout that, thought you were helpful for a sec there. —ShounenSuki (talk 21:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you are saying.Giotis (talk) 10:15, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm saying your input was useless and disruptive. —ShounenSuki (talk 13:30, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay it may was useless but please put it more gently.Giotis (talk) 16:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Judging from all the manga images that show young teens and all the given height listings, comparing him when he was appointed Kage to all the other young teens. He looks like he may have been 14 maybe 15, 16 at the most from his physical looks. Was he hinted to be the youngest Kage or the youngest Hokage? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:36, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Facing Nine-Tailed Fox Menacing Ball
[here] does it look like they faced the menacing ball (and surivived) while Minato was gone, or just when Minato zapped the last away and now? Finally, [here], does he look to concerned? As in he could deal with it but it will be exhausting? I ask since if the answers are yes and no respectfully, this means he could deal with this attack (and how many can say that?). Thomas Finlayson (talk) 17:19, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * It does suggest that the Nine-Tails used more than just the shown two chakra blasts, which really isn't surprising in the slightest, as that is his main method of attack.
 * Also, if the Third thought he or the shinobi with him couldn't handle that attack, he would have ordered everyone to leave the second he saw the Nine-Tails forming it. However, he was obviously getting exhausted, since he slumped down just as he saw the blast being formed.
 * In other words, he wasn't in a good state, but he could at least avoid it at such a close range, if not somehow handle it. --ShounenSuki (talk 17:29, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Lava Release
It is quite evident that Hiruzen is capable of using Lava Release as shown in the battle against Orochimaru when he spit mudballs infused with fire to increase the damage of the jutsu... Do you think Lava Release should be added to Hiruzen's kekkai genkai?
 * All he did was catch the mud of fire, he didn't mix earth and fire chakra.--Deva 27 (talk) 21:39, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

He did not use Lava Release, he merely used a combination of Fire Release and Earth Release. Granted it may seem one in the same, but it isn't. On top of that, wasn't it anime only?--Kagi mizu -Seeya 'round 21:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

All techs of the hidden leaf
I can't remember where it is now, but someone linked a Interesting facts thread which supposedly came from the databook. onw of the facts said that sarutobi was said to have a counter for every tech in the village, including MS and EMS abilities, like Tsukuyomi. Does anyone know more about this?
 * It's not true. The Third Hokage was said to be able to use all the techniques in Konoha. It was never said he had a counter to everything. —ShounenSuki (talk 10:08, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

i just looked it up on some sites and i found it on saiyenisland,can someone chack the second fanbook plz,it must be written in there


 * Do you believe everything you read online?  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 17:14, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

ShounenSuki-senpai has translated the second databook, correct? So wherever you're reading this from, it must be wrong.-- Ninja Sheik  17:17, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

@famkck no,that is why i'm asking it.. and saiyenisland is mostly trustyworthy --The tyrant kuma (talk) 20:59, March 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * And I would like this site to also be trustworthy, and not add things without a proper source. A random comment on saiyenisland saying Hiruzen could counter all of Konoha's jutsu does not count as a source.  ~ Fmakck© → Talk → Contributions ~ 21:47, March 20, 2011 (UTC)

shinobi no kami sandaime hokage
I don't know where you guys find up the fact that he was named shinobi kami like sage of six paths.I was watching viz media version on jetix four years ago and nobody said it that hirunzen had nick name shinobi kami. Now maybe you know something I don't, and OK maybe I mist it about the nick name but you people compare man who had crated and revoluzionated ninjutsu the sage with hirunzen who only learned jutsu. Comparing hirunzen and sage is like comparing the creator of letters and the writter of some famous book because if creator of the letter wasn't alive the guy who wrote books could not write because there was nobody to create letters, so hirunzen wouldn't be anything wuthout the sage...YamatoTakeru (talk) 22:16, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Databooks. Third one, if I'm not mistaken. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 03:48, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Ok but still sage is more god like figure than hirunzen79.101.241.110 (talk) 08:13, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Not a forum.Umishiru (talk) 08:16, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well other are also acting as if this is a forum...Naruto is not quantum physic it is a manga...79.101.241.110 (talk) 15:20, April 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * No sir, this is nuclear science/cryogenics lab what is a "manga"? --Cerez™☺ 15:41, April 2, 2011 (UTC)

You're a funny guy, as you say, but if nuclera scienc go any further man on this site will use after that sticks...YamatoTakeru (talk) 21:22, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

Image in his appearance
Do we really need to put that image in his appearance? --_-_-=NejiLoverr26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) 13:43, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason we shouldn't?--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:06, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Hiruzen always wear that, except in combat. --_-_-=NejiLoverr26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) Konohagakure_Symbol.svg 14:23, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't understand. If he always wears it except for in combat, how does that make it a non-necessity?--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 14:51, May 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * If I'm not mistaken, we put image in his appearance if the character shows another outfit, for example, Temari. --_-_-=NejiLoverr26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) Konohagakure_Symbol.svg 03:56, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * No. It was only agreed that we use full body images go in the appearance section like in Kurenai's article for example. Except for some special cases like the time-skip with the "Konoha 11".--Cerez365™ Hyūga Symbol.svg 04:03, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh.. okay, I got it. --_-_-=NejiLoverr26 (Talk-Contribs.-Links) Konohagakure_Symbol.svg 04:18, May 17, 2011 (UTC)

When he became Hokage
Should it be mentioned that he became Hokage before he had turned 20.--TricksterKing (talk) 22:07, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

Actually I'm confused about the date myself ... in both early anime and manga, he looked like 10 when he was told that from tomorrow on he is the Hokage but later it happened when he was like 15-16+ when 2nd Hokage was about to die and told Hiruzen he is the Hokage now --Elveonora (talk) 22:45, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

I haven't seen the earlier time, but it's confirmed that he was hokage before he turned 23-24, going off that and those flashbacks, it's not speculation that he was hokage before turning 20, I'd probably go with the more recent flashback as being canon now, just because Danzo was in the flashback.--TricksterKing (talk) 23:14, February 28, 2012 (UTC)

In the early anime and manga he was being groomed to become a Hokage since apparently they took special interest/notice in him he was never said to be Hokage there. Also where was his age of taking up office confirmed at any point O.o His age is a range and all we would know is his age during the Nine-Tails' attack on Konoha and an assumption of how old he would be going back from there.--Cerez365™ 03:37, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

It's said on the Sannin page that they were six at that point and Hiruzen was already the Hokage, so there's confirmation of when he was definitely the hokage which is about 23-24.--TricksterKing (talk) 05:16, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Strongest Hokage ?
What happened with that with the current revelation of Hashirama being the strongest shinobi in history right after Sage ? --Elveonora (talk) 02:36, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

It was never said that Hashirama was the strongest shinobi after the Sage. Not once. What was said was that his strength was held as mythical as the Sage's existence was. Hiruzen being the strongest Hokage has been stated in like every databook. Skitts (talk) 03:34, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

It was said that no shinobi comparable to his strength are around these days and was said to be stronger than Madara himself thus I don't see how could Hiruzen be the best back in the day. His power was said to be a mythos as people take it as fairy tales these days just like the Sage.--Elveonora (talk) 03:47, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * hiruzen fight the fist and the second alone in a weaken state from the old age beating the two kage using the death seal on three people plus the shadow clone plus earth and fire high level tecnique. so i think is stronger that the first in his prime, but not stronger that madara powered up by orocimaru.--Nitram86 (talk) 09:34, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

They were brainwashed puppets of Orochimaru and were not fighting their best obviously. --Elveonora (talk) 14:34, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage. This has been stated as fact in every databook. Hashirama's strength has simply been expanded on;this doesn't negate those statements. Kabuto said that no currently living shinobi was on Hashirama's level, which implies that there once were some on his level, with Hiruzen being known to be above him. Hashirama's strength was referred to as being as mythical as the existence of the Sage of the Six Paths was. However, Hiruzen was thought of as a God in his prime. Obviously godlike trumps mythical. Skitts (talk) 08:55, March 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Though I agree with Skitts. Just because recent events have come to light doesn't mean everything that was said about the other Hokage were untrue. I will however correct that "mythical" and "godlike" are somewhat the same in terms of how Kishimoto wants it to sound. Not that I believe any of this should concern the wikia too much.--Cerez365™Hyūga Symbol.svg 10:00, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Image
I was perusing an episode and I saw an image of Hiruzen that could possibly replace the one in his infobox. He has his hat on and everything, so you can't really see his hair and there's a slight shadow over his face as a result, but I think the image in his appearance section deals with that issue. Here's a sample of the image - it's more centric and there's no poncho making him look like Condor or that annoying bead of sweat e_e What say ye? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 01:05, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I opt for that image. It shows him wearing the Kage Kasa.--KiumaruHamachi (talk) 01:12, April 16, 2012 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi

I see no problem with the current image, I find it better--Elveonora (talk) 01:22, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it's better to be add in the Hokage's article. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 01:44, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the current Hiruzen's picture shows whole of his face and head--Elveonora (talk) 01:53, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah but his head never left. Also, this.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk)
 * But that is in his article already! —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me) 02:33, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's was the point of it. I'm showing you that there's an image in there that shows his "head"— hair and all.--Cerez 365 ™Hyūga Symbol.svg(talk) 13:56, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Bump.--Cerez 365 ™(talk) 13:55, April 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think a picture of him with the full Kage garb would be appropriate. I also think a picture of him smiling would be the best thing ever, so personally a picture like the one first mentioned here would be awesome.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 14:30, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

Bump again? --Cerez 365 ™(talk) 17:35, April 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I prefer it too.--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 11:09, April 23, 2012 (UTC)