<div class="quote"><i> <p>NeedleJizo wrote: As I've said multiple times, the biggest problem in <i>Naruto</i>, from a plot perspective, is that everyone has to be nerfed to make Naruto and Sasuke look stronger than they actually are. </p> </i></div>
<p>That's exactly what happened in Dragon Ball GT. Basically, even Vegeta was nerfed for some time in order to make Goku look stronger. It's why some call it "Dragon Ball Goku Time." >_< </p>

<p>Easy. Madara is the most nerfed. Why? Because Kishimoto literally didn't know how to kill him off, with him admitting that himself (I believe he said so sometime somewhere, don't quote me on that, but If anyone can find that statement, it would help) :) </p>

<p>Dragon Ball Goku Time, now that's clever. Z series was so much better. (off topic gibber jabber ends here) </p><p>It also doesn't help that Naruto uses the same damn things each and every time regardless of the gift he got from Hagoromo. It's like, what's the point of overpowering the guy if all I'm gonna get is Shadow Clones, Rasengan variants, and TB chakra arms? Then to nerf the villains on top of it. Just leaves a lot to be desired. Dat Kishi. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Minamoto15 wrote: Dragon Ball Goku Time, now that's clever. Z series was so much better. (off topic gibber jabber ends here) </p><p>It also doesn't help that Naruto uses the same damn things each and every time regardless of the gift he got from Hagoromo. It's like, what's the point of overpowering the guy if all I'm gonna get is Shadow Clones, Rasengan variants, and TB chakra arms? Then to nerf the villains on top of it. Just leaves a lot to be desired. Dat Kishi. </p> </i></div>
<p>This. In its entirety. </p><p>You give Naruto the TSB and the chakra of all nine TBs. Yet still, he just uses more Rasengan techniques and calls upon Kurama more often. </p><p>You give Sasuke the Rinnegan... all he does is teleport around -___- </p><p>I'm sure some of us would have liked to see TSB manipulation like Obito's when Naruto got them, and we would have like to see Naruto call on ANYONE but Kurama (especially in his fight with Sasuke). </p><p>And again, if all Sasuke was going to do was teleport with the Rinnegan and hardly use the SP technique, then he would have just gotten by with the Body Flicker. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>A True Sage wrote: Honestly, that entire portion seemed odd to me. We have Sasuke... we can all agree that he has natural talent, boosted by his time training with Kakashi and Orochimaru. But even still, jeez...he went toe-to-toe with A, Onoki, Mei, several Samurai, and a few Kage bodyguards, before finally leaving the Summit altogether to have a fight with kage-level Danzo, a fight that he somehow wins, and then after all this he duels Kakashi to the point that Kakashi... Kakashi... freaks out and says, "THIS IS BAD!" </p><p>A single shinobi teenager, not even through with his training yet, fought his way successfully through all those opponents?? He should have been too tired and taxed after just A to continue; he not only continued but he murdered Danzo and made prodigy-future-Hokage Kakashi worry. Keep this in mind. </p><p>Now, fast forward. Remember this panel, Ch. 664? Black Zetsu possessing the body of Obito shortly after the Juubi was extracted from him, and in front of him we have Minato and Kakashi, exhausted and panting, unable to bring down Black freaking Zetsu. </p><p>I see a problem here. Sasuke -- a hero of the plot, a still developing teen shinobi -- overcomes and keeps standing despite combating several very potent foes. Minato and Kakashi -- regarded as masterclass, full grown prodigy ninja -- are struggling and panting, fighting an unconscious-Obito-carrying Black Zetsu. </p><p>I see a problem here. </p> </i></div>
<p>This sort of thing cheapens the earlier manga and anime content. </p><p>Sannin and Kage level ninja who have trained for 15-50+ years (depending on the character) shouldn't be dominated by kids who haven't even reached adulthood yet, no matter what their family tree is. I could understand feeding these people on a platter to the guy the manga is named after but not Sasuke. Hell no. </p>

<p>This is something that irks me: that the student always surpasses the teacher -- even if the teacher is a living legend! -- and they do it when they're 15-16 years old. </p><p>The Sannin and Team 7 are a great illustration. The Sannin were regarded as unusually powerful and intelligent shinobi, and yet each of their students seem to do bigger and greater things than their teachers in no time. It usually goes something like this: "GASP. I hadn't realized [student] had progressed so far under [teacher]... in fact, with that kind of chakra control and power, they may be even MORE powerful than [teacher]!" Yeah, maybe ten years down the road, but why are mid-teen shinobi becoming greater than their masters?! </p><p>I know what it is; it isn't interesting to see a student train beneath a teacher unless, one day, we witness them go beyond their teacher. This storytelling trope will be responsible for at least one incomprehensibly powerful shinobi down the line... Naruto<Boruto<Son<Grandson<Great-Grandson... that Great-Grandson ("GASP I hadn't realized [Great-Grandson] had progressed so far... they may be even MORE powerful than [Grandson]!") will most likely be a deity, capable of the Just Freaking Die Jutsu, by which they just breathe in and out and win battles. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>UnstoppableUchiha wrote: This is something that irks me: that the student always surpasses the teacher -- even if the teacher is a living legend! -- and they do it when they're 15-16 years old. </p><p>The Sannin and Team 7 are a great illustration. The Sannin were regarded as unusually powerful and intelligent shinobi, and yet each of their students seem to do bigger and greater things than their teachers in no time. It usually goes something like this: "GASP. I hadn't realized [student] had progressed so far under [teacher]... in fact, with that kind of chakra control and power, they may be even MORE powerful than [teacher]!" Yeah, maybe ten years down the road, but why are mid-teen shinobi becoming greater than their masters?! </p><p>I know what it is; it isn't interesting to see a student train beneath a teacher unless, one day, we witness them go beyond their teacher. This storytelling trope will be responsible for at least one incomprehensibly powerful shinobi down the line... Naruto<Boruto<Son<Grandson<Great-Grandson... that Great-Grandson ("GASP I hadn't realized [Great-Grandson] had progressed so far... they may be even MORE powerful than [Grandson]!") will most likely be a deity, capable of the Just Freaking Die Jutsu, by which they just breathe in and out and win battles. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not a whole lot of consistency to this idea either. Two ninja from a current generation surpass every ninja from the last couple of generations within 2 years. </p><p>Meanwhile every generation between Madara/Hashirama's & Naruto/Sasuke's actually got WORSE than the one before it. People like Izumo, Kotetsu, Ibiki, Hayate, Genma, Ebisu, Anko, Iruka and Kurenai represented the absolute pits of "evolution" when they should have been monsters if every generation eventually surpasses the last one and they came multiple generations after Madara, etc. </p>

<p>sasuke and naruto were contrasted against Edo Tensei's(Weak shells of their living selves) and survived by plot protection. I don't believe they have ever fought one v one with someone who is in their prime and not hindered by being nerfed, any other crap like sickness or immobility and won, in fact yes they did and they even attempted to double team said person and both still nearly died, that Person was Madara with no eyes, then ONE Rinnegan, Senjutsu, and a bit of Kurama chakra. He basically murdered both of them, but plot made them live. Killer Bee just about killed Sasuke. Sasuke had Taka with him too and they still got pwned, then tricked. Kishi just wanted to end the series, so he made everyone around them weaker, hindered by plot and circumstance and gave Narutard and Sucksuke each half of the freaking SoSP's chakra, giving Sasuke Rinnegan and Naruto SPSM. They then lose the sage's chakra and get embarrassed by Shin for a good while. They eventually come up against Momoshiki and both nearly die and are saved by plot again. It's pretty sad. </p>

<p>The worst nerfs I've seen are: </p><p>1. Naruto vs Madara </p><p>Naruto busts in with <i>normal</i> Tailed Beast Mode instead of the Sage-mode-enhanced mode he's been using mere minutes ago. Completely screws his chances of even slightly sensing the Limbo clone that smacked all the beasts down. Kishi didn't want that to happen because either 1) he came up with Limbo right off the bat as a technique that overpowers the tailed beasts and didn't know how it worked at that point, or 2) he deliberately had Naruto not go Sage Mode so that the plot can progress and he could die. </p><p>2. Tailed Beast Bomb (and Rasenshuriken) </p><p>As stated above, the TBB and RS, in their introduction, destroyed <i>everything</i> within their bounds. During the War, though, neither of them left as relatively-deep a size of a hole. To make matters worse, the Juubi's supposedly country-destroying bombs did almost <i>no damage whatsoever</i> to the terrain and only left smoke and dust behind, and it's the same case with Naruto's largest Rasenshuriken. It's as if the larger the explosion is, the less destructive it is. </p><p>3. Kurama </p><p>Kurama got nerfed in more ways than one. He got nerfed personality-wise by quickly changing from a malevolent being who manipulated Naruto in releasing him (allowing him to wreak havoc on the world again) to a fallen child of the Sage who's tired of being treated like shit and easily falls to Naruto's kindness <i>in a single day</i>. He also changed from being the most powerful being in the Naruto world that no one could defeat to being merely the largest portion of an even more powerful beast that easily falls to a barrage of gigantic Rasengans (the Rasenshuriken is understandable though) and a friggin' invisible kick to the face. </p><p>4. Kakashi </p><p>The Copy Ninja. The man who's learned more than a thousand techniques through the eye given to him by a fallen comrade. Suddenly sees no point in copying techniques anymore once he can use Kamui, and relies solely on his Raikiri, which his Sharingan allows him to use. Loses his Sharingan to Madara and gets no chance of ever getting it back (even after having become Obito's jinchuuriki for a short time). Now sees himself as useless because he doesn't have the Sharingan and can't perform Raikiri, despite the nigh-countless collection of techniques he's learned and could choose a new signature technique out of. </p><p>5. Guy </p><p>Well, to be fair, Guy got a <i>massive</i> buff with his Eighth Gate. Back when it was introduced, it was already considered the highest of forbidden techniques, the user of which surpasses Kage-level and can demolish just about anyone before dying a gruesome death. Such a level, when introduced during the time of the War, would only have been good for the higher-level Edo Tensei zombies and not much higher than that. As it turns out, he surpasses <i>the Juubi jinchuuriki Madara</i>, who is tens of magnitudes stronger than even the strongest Kage, in physical strength and ability. While that's awesome, the nerf comes when Guy's final attack lands <i>a little</i> too far to the left (hitting center would have liquefied Madara's entire torso), and the damage he did to the Tree was almost nil to boot. All so that Naruto can easily get the upper hand on Madara and cut the Tree down himself. </p><p>6. Hagoromo </p><p>The almighty Sage of the Six Paths, bearer of the Rinnegan, founder of Ninshuu, savior of the world, and creator of the tailed beasts. That was him when he was introduced and was an ancient legendary figure. The nerf came when he actually came into the story to give Naruto and Sasuke power. Primarily 1) his identity as a legendary figure was lost, and 2) <i>he had a brother all along, and his mother was even more powerful and was actually the first one to use chakra</i>. </p>

<p>I'd have to go with Madara, Sasuke and Orochimaru. Yup, totally pointless for temperamental and lunatic fools to be that powered-up. </p>