<p>@mcpowa Except she not though because thats exactly what she did to Sasuke. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ootsutsuki wrote: I think Hagoromo will be the sole winner. Some people might think that Kaguya can also do the same, but even though she has a lot of amazing skills, if it's not for Black Zetsu who commanded her, she might even lose the fight against Naruto and Sasuke earlier. </p> </i></div>
<p>Zetsu is her will, she was essentially talking to herself......Thats probably why we never got any of her inner thoughts or self monologues. Black Zetsu was used to convey those thoughts/feelings because he is part of her conciousness </p>

<p>Madara vs Kaguya = Kaguya. You mention sealing would work, and indeed it would, if the only thing that could seal her wasn't Six-Paths Chibaku Tensei, something Madara did not have. So Despite being way smarter, Madara would lose because Kaguya is more broken. </p><p>Madara vs Hagoromo = I think it would either be a tie or a defeat. Hagoromo could seal Madara like he did the Ten-Tails, which would just end the fight. </p><p>Madara vs Obito: Victory. Obito would just be rekt'd. </p><p>Madara vs Hamura = Tie or Victory, don't know enough about Hamura's personal power but the Tenseigan doesn't look anywhere near as broken as the Rinnegan. </p><p>Madara vs Momoshiki or Tonrei = Don't know. Didn't see Boruto movie, and I don't know how strong the Tenseigan really is. </p><p>Madara vs Tenten = Defeat. As I always say, Tenten is an actual weapons master, and unlike everything else in this series, normal weapons are 100% lethal when compared to the ability to destroy a mountain. </p><p>Madara vs Naruto = Tie. See below. </p><p>Madara vs Sasuke = Tie. See below. </p><p>Madara vs Sasuke and Naruto = For these two, in true bromance fashion (and in clear violation of the rules of engagement in this thread) their prime is when they are together. Therefore, in a battle between these two it would either be a Tie or Madara get's defeated. Kishimoto writing himself into a corner notwithstanding, I really believe Naruto and Sasuke are godly enough to kill a god if they wanted to. Not to mention they've shown the ability to rip the tailed beasts out of a jinchuriki, thus removing the immortal part of Madara's power. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>TheUltimate3 wrote: Madara vs Obito: Victory. Obito would just be rekt'd. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not to mention that Obito couldn't even use his own technique (Kamui) while being a TT jinchuuriki, while Madara could just snatch one of Obito's eyes and put it on like a T-shirt and use Kamui effectively as a TT jinchuuriki. </p>

<p>Naruto and Sasuke are definitely not god level. They are pretty much the strongest around. </p><p>Hagoromo needed another person to seal the 10 Tails, but given his advanced knowledge of how to use the Rinnegan and such he should be able to win. </p><p>Normal weapons are far from lethal, Madara could have been given less than a crap about being bisected and Naruto shrugged off being stabbed in the belly. </p><p>Ripping the Tailed Beasts must be incredibly difficult because neither Naruto nor Sasuke tried... When did Sasuke rip a Tailed Beast out of anyone?? </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>WindStar7125 wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>TheUltimate3 wrote: Madara vs Obito: Victory. Obito would just be rekt'd. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not to mention that Obito couldn't even use his own technique (Kamui) while being a TT jinchuuriki, while Madara could just snatch one of Obito's eyes and put it on like a T-shirt and use Kamui effectively as a TT jinchuuriki. </p> </div> <p>From what little I could understand, Obito was referring to his inability to phase. I think if he opened a full portal and sucked himself into it (like he did with Kakashi's eye) he'd be kay. </p><p>EDIT: It could also have simply been a case of Kishimoto acknowledging that he made Madara broken as hell and rationalized it as "Well I'm killing him with Kaguya anyway so whatever! Break my own rules!" </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>TheUltimate3 wrote: From what little I could understand, Obito was referring to his inability to phase. I think if he opened a full portal and sucked himself into it (like he did with Kakashi's eye) he'd be kay. </p><p>EDIT: It could also have simply been a case of Kishimoto acknowledging that he made Madara broken as hell and rationalized it as "Well I'm killing him with Kaguya anyway so whatever! Break my own rules!" </p> </i></div>
<p>Hmm... good point there. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: Naruto and Sasuke are definitely not god level. They are pretty much the strongest around. </p> </i></div>
<p>Naruto and Sasuke kicked the crap out of one eyed TTJ Madara who at the time was beyond god level, albeit not as powerful as Kaguya but still beyond god level, not to mention the fact that they had him running away half the time, so yes Naruto and Sasuke are definitely god level at this point. </p>

<p>Kaguya defeats Madara. Only way to defeat her is by using sealing jutsu, and only Six Paths — Chibaku Tensei seems good enough for that. Madara lacks the seals needed for it. Hagoromo is better than Madara in any way. Only thing Madara has while Hagoromo doesn't is the Rinne Sharingan, but I doubt it'd help against the Sage of the Six Paths. We know too little of Hamura. Momoshiki could be a good match, but I'd give it to Madara in the end. Toneri couldn't defeat Sage Kurama Mode Naruto, so no way he can defeat Ten-Tails' jinchūriki Madara. Tenten doesn't even need to breathe before being crushed. Naruto could deal some serious damage to Madara in his Six Paths Sage Mode as he did with Kaguya, but defeat the Uchiha, no; same for Sasuke. Obito as TTJ loses, but maybe he could fight Madara's Limbo since he has the Rinnegan needed to see the clones and the Truth-Seeking Balls to damage them; but Madara's still too strong for him. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: Naruto and Sasuke are definitely not god level. They are pretty much the strongest around. </p> </i></div>
<p>Considering their bout with Kaguya, I'd say they are god level. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Hagoromo needed another person to seal the 10 Tails, but given his advanced knowledge of how to use the Rinnegan and such he should be able to win. </p> </i></div>
<p>Having someone and needing someone are two different things. Considering how Hagaromo was the one that gave the Six-Paths Chibaku Tensei to Naruto and Sasuke, I think it's pretty clear that, if he wanted, he could do it alone. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Normal weapons are far from lethal, Madara could have been given less than a crap about being bisected and Naruto shrugged off being stabbed in the belly. </p> </i></div>
<p>/shrug, Naruto is a god and so is Madara. Had either of them been normal though, my vote goes to Tenten with a kunai in the gut because yeah, normal weaponry has at the very least been consistent with their "will kill you"ness. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ripping the Tailed Beasts must be incredibly difficult because neither Naruto nor Sasuke tried... When did Sasuke rip a Tailed Beast out of anyone?? </p> </i></div>
<p>They didn't try because they were to busy handing Madara his ass until he cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Jokes aside, I'm saying they <i>could</i>. </p>

<p>I think Madara would defeat the Main Branch Otosuki's, individuals like Kaguya, Tonrei etc, and also Naruto and Sasuke, I honestly believe Kaguya was Kishimoto's way of saving our boys (because she was an f-ing idiot), I just can't conceptualize, whether together or not, those two beating Uchiha Madara as the Second Sage of Six Paths. </p><p>Madara just has too much going for him. </p><p>I can only imagine Hagoromo and Hamura really pushing Madara to the limit and possible beating him, despite Hagoromo's defiance and assertion he created Nishu like his Mother he and his Brother weaponized chakra to fight and seal her, and they had to have mastered it to a high-level to do it. In my mind Hagoromo and Hamura are the very first ever Ninja's of Naruto, they may know ways to use Ninjutsu (and possible in conjuction with Nishu) that Madara's mind hasn't even realized, I seriously feel they have that going for them should time and space compress and allow these characters to meet lol. </p>