<div class="quote"><i> <p>BakumatsuWarrior wrote: @Gerisama: Thanks for reminding us about the glaring timeline issues Kishi introduced when he revealed that the masked man was Obito. I think making Obito the villain was one of the biggest mistakes Kishi made in the series (along with Kaguya the Rabbit Bitch, who was a boring-ass villain). It introduced all sorts of timeline issues, along with the fact that a 13 year-old going batshit crazy for "romantic love" sounds lame as fuck. 13 year-olds boys only have crushes and masturbate to porn; they don't go around plotting the end of the world and killing their own senseis, especially if the 13 year-old in question had a very kind heart before his "crush" died. </p> </i></div>
<p>Wow, what a horribly worded and extremely one-sided opinion that is in no way truth at all. Love has caused many wars, deaths, tragedies, etc. over the course of history. Like, seriously, pick up a history book. People will do some <i>horrible</i> things in the name of lost love and, you'll find, <i>most</i> of the people who perpetrate these crimes out of lost love tend to be younger rather than older. </p><p>Secondly, really? Are you inferring that Obito is unrealistic because teenage boys don't have the capacity for anything but blind lust? Have you <i>met</i> a teenage boy (or been one?). I'd have a hard time believing either based on your statement alone. </p><p>Love is a powerful emotion and thirteen year old anybodys (boys or otherwise) are extremely impressible and easily influenced emotionally. Now, not all of them are 'shinobi' capable of destroying the world with their crazy eye powers, but there are a reason that people go crazy and do things like commit mass murder (pick your poison on <i>how</i> they do this), or do something as tragic as take their own lives. </p><p>Forgive the harshness of this next statement, but I hate when people who have <i>no</i> idea what they're talking about try to be literary critics. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ten Tailed Fox wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>BakumatsuWarrior wrote: @Gerisama: Thanks for reminding us about the glaring timeline issues Kishi introduced when he revealed that the masked man was Obito. I think making Obito the villain was one of the biggest mistakes Kishi made in the series (along with Kaguya the Rabbit Bitch, who was a boring-ass villain). It introduced all sorts of timeline issues, along with the fact that a 13 year-old going batshit crazy for "romantic love" sounds lame as fuck. 13 year-olds boys only have crushes and masturbate to porn; they don't go around plotting the end of the world and killing their own senseis, especially if the 13 year-old in question had a very kind heart before his "crush" died. </p> </i></div>
<p>Wow, what a horribly worded and extremely one-sided opinion that is in no way truth at all. Love has caused many wars, deaths, tragedies, etc. over the course of history. Like, seriously, pick up a history book. People will do some <i>horrible</i> things in the name of lost love and, you'll find, <i>most</i> of the people who perpetrate these crimes out of lost love tend to be younger rather than older. </p><p>Secondly, really? Are you inferring that Obito is unrealistic because teenage boys don't have the capacity for anything but blind lust? Have you <i>met</i> a teenage boy (or been one?). I'd have a hard time believing either based on your statement alone. </p><p>Love is a powerful emotion and thirteen year old anybodys (boys or otherwise) are extremely impressible and easily influenced emotionally. Now, not all of them are 'shinobi' capable of destroying the world with their crazy eye powers, but there are a reason that people go crazy and do things like commit mass murder (pick your poison on <i>how</i> they do this), or do something as tragic as take their own lives. </p><p>Forgive the harshness of this next statement, but I hate when people who have <i>no</i> idea what they're talking about try to be literary critics. </p> </div> <p>That being said, Obito being Tobi was incredibly boring in the predictability of it. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ten Tailed Fox wrote: Wow, what a horribly worded and extremely one-sided opinion that is in no way truth at all. Love has caused many wars, deaths, tragedies, etc. over the course of history. Like, seriously, pick up a history book. People will do some <i>horrible</i> things in the name of lost love and, you'll find, <i>most</i> of the people who perpetrate these crimes out of lost love tend to be younger rather than older. </p><p>Secondly, really? Are you inferring that Obito is unrealistic because teenage boys don't have the capacity for anything but blind lust? Have you <i>met</i> a teenage boy (or been one?). I'd have a hard time believing either based on your statement alone. </p><p>Love is a powerful emotion and thirteen year old anybodys (boys or otherwise) are extremely impressible and easily influenced emotionally. Now, not all of them are 'shinobi' capable of destroying the world with their crazy eye powers, but there are a reason that people go crazy and do things like commit mass murder (pick your poison on <i>how</i> they do this), or do something as tragic as take their own lives. </p><p>Forgive the harshness of this next statement, but I hate when people who have <i>no</i> idea what they're talking about try to be literary critics. </p> </i></div>
<p>Err nope I never said people don't do bad stuff for love. I merely stated that a 13 year-old going about with the "destroy the world" and ruthlessly killing people along the way is simply ridiculous. Why is that so difficult to understand? Did your childhood crush ditch you when you were 13 so now you get butthurt whenever someone trashes teenage "love"? Well whatever. No need to get so butthurt. </p><p>And yes, I know something about history. <i>Almost all</i> wars were chiefly caused by nationalism, xenophobia, lust for power and dominion, natural resources, religion, etc. I don't know a single major war that was fought for "love". Crimes of passion? Certainly, they're too many. But wars? NOPE. Why don't YOU pick up a history book? Also by any chance, are you a big fan of cheesy romance films that says "love conquers all"? Love seems like a touchy issue for you. </p><p>P.S. I never claimed I was a literary critc. Also, I've been a teenage boy, I've had my crushes, and most importantly, I watched a fuck lot of porn during those days instead of plotting the end of the world just because I couldn't get some of my crushes to date me. </p>

<p>@BakumatsuWarrior, </p><p>Uhh, let's recap. </p><p>Yes, Obito was a teenage boy. That means any sort of heart break hurts a whole lot worse, since you're just around hitting puberty and those hormones are killer. </p><p>Not only that, it wasn't JUST that his love died. He sacrificed his life so she and his best friend could live (I know that he survived, but he still made that sacrifice, Madara just saved him). Obito's best friend promised to keep Rin safe at any cost. </p><p>Then, he finds out Kakashi and Rin are in trouble, so he rushes to save them. Along the way, he finds out his sensei won't be on time to save them, again. When he gets there, he sees Kakashi, his best friend, with his hand through Rin, his love, with Chidori, the Jutsu that the eye Obito gave him helped complete. </p><p>I'm not surprised he was messed up. </p>

And now back to the original topic please.

<div class="quote"><i> <p>GerizzyYMcrew wrote: ^ thats not a timelime issue at all...you just stated your own damn opinions which pretty much dont matter </p> </i></div>
<p>Indeed it's just my opinion. But I think there's enough inconsistencies to regard it as a timeline issue. So let me break down Gerisama's objections pointwise: </p><p>1. Jiraiya taught the 3 Ame orphans during the 2nd War, most likely <i>before</i> he mentored Minato. </p><p>2. Even if he mentored Minato before mentoring the Ame orphans, Minato and Nagato should <i>roughly be the same age</i> (Nagato might be a bit older, given that the manga seems to suggest that the training of the Ame orphans took place before Minato's) </p><p>3. Yet the Wiki page says that Minato died aged 24, while Yahiko died at age 15 and Nagato died at age 35. </p><p>4. This is inconsistent because Minato would have been 40 during the Pain Arc, yet the supposedly older Nagato was only 35 when he attacked Konoha. </p><p>5. That's not all. Minato was probably 22-23 years old when Obito "died" at the battle of Kannabi Bridge. That would place Nagato and Yahiko in their early 20's during Obito's "death" </p><p>6. Yet Yahiko died at at <i>age 15</i>, and during that time Minato too would have been in his teens, just like Nagato and Konan. </p><p>7. But Obito had turned evil and manipulated the Ame orphans <i>before Yahiko died</i>, which implies that Obito turned evil when Minato <i>was in his teens</i>. </p><p>8. But we know from the manga that Minato was older than 21 years old when Obito turned evil, which is a clear contradiction. </p><p>Hence, there are severe timeline issues involved. </p><p>But someone could argue that Minato was trained <i>before</i> Nagato, and that makes Minato older than Nagato. However, there are several problems with this line of reasoning: </p><p>i) The 2nd War started when the Sanin were in their teens. Nawaki died in that war, and Tsunade was a teen during that time (as clearly depicted in the manga). </p><p>ii) So it follows from Point (i) that the Sanin were busy throughout their teens and maybe till they were age 20 because of the 2nd War. That means it's highly unlikely Jiraiya trained his genin squad (with Minato) during the War. </p><p>iii) We know Jiraiya trained the Ame orphans towards the end of the 2nd War. He spent 3 years near Ame to prepare them for the hardships ahead. It is generally assumed that the war was already over by that time. Because if it hadn't, Jiraiya wouldn't have had an easy time staying with Nagato & co. due to the war. </p><p>iv) From Point (ii) we've established that Minato being trained during the 2nd War was highly unlikely. From Point (iii) we know that Nagato was trained towards the end of the war. So the only likely period when Minato was trained by Jiraiya was <i>after</i> Nagato's training. Hence Minato and Nagato should roughly be the same age, with Nagato being most likely older. And this creates timeline issues. </p><p>
<irrelevant rant> </p><p>
</p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>AsianReaper wrote: Yes, Obito was a teenage boy. That means any sort of heart break hurts a whole lot worse, since you're just around hitting puberty and those hormones are killer. </p> </i></div>
<p>Still a lame motivation. Plus those hormones would impair his rational mind, without which manipulating Yagura, Kirigakura and Akatsuki would have been impossible. Also, even if we accept that the plot of "an innocent 13 year old boy turning into the most evil bastard in the whole world" is sensible enough, but still, Obito's feats of manipulating Yagura; Kirigakure; Iwagakure; Yahiko-era Akatsuki; Pein-era Akatsuki; and a whole lot of other people we don't know about; is still hard to digest. </p><p>We must remember that 13-year old Obito was not like 13 year old Itachi, who was wayyyyy matured for his age. Obito was naive, innocent and clumsy. Are we supposed to believe that some 14 year old punk who was clumsy as hell suddenly turned into the greatest manipulator in the entire series? That simply doesn't make sense. At least Itachi was shown to be incredibly matured at a young age. Obito was basically Naruto with a sharingan. It's his <i>steep and sudden transition</i> from clumsy to Master Manipulator, as well as his Rin issues, that makes Obito so unconvincing as a villain. </p><p></irrelevant rant> </p>

<p>^ was minato's age given specifically in the manga or databooks? </p>

24 at time of death.

<p>If you count chapter 698 as the "ending of the war" then it lasted 4 full days (or 3?). </p>

<p>@Bakamatsu Warrior, Madara was the one who schooled Obito. He trained him to be a near mirror image of him. And like I said before, wasn't ONLY Rin that made him go crazy. It was everything leading up to it. He just realized he didn't want to live in a world where a shinobi system had his best friend stabbing his love through the chest. Being a kid, he ran away from the real world instead of trying to pull through it. Madara's influence didn't help either </p>