<p>@MLG, its not about disliking Naruto, or liking Jiraiya, I've argued over narutos case before. I just know facts. And kishi does not say Naruto is smart. If he did, he wouldn't have him a 1.5 in intelligence in part 2. You keep ignoring this and state things. If a story revolves around an idiot, that idiot might have some occasional smart feats, doesn't make them smart. Kakashi did in fact help Naruto with his Rasenshuriken, matter of fact majority of what Naruto did was because of the lessons Kakashi gave him. How did Naruto know to use Shadow Clones for the training? Kakashi. How did Naruto learn how to import nature as well as shape manipulation? Kakashi. Naruto only performed it, because Kakashi guided him. Give credit where credit is do. Yes Naruto did it, however, he did not know HOW to do it. He possessed the tools but not the knowledge, why? Cause he wasn't smart. </p>

<p>That logic makes no sense. Every student has a teacher. By your logic anyone who learned from someone else isnt smart. There is a reason why in school, there are smart students and dumb students. Just because someone teaches you something doesn't mean you understand it. Intelligence is the ability to acquire, retain, understand, and apply knowledge to either gain new knowledge, decuce things, trick people , plan, and use forward thinking. Naruto from episode 1 showed intelligence, he stole the scroll and casually learned how to do an S rank jutsu. Naruto outsmarted neji, outsmarted kiba using wisdom, outsmarted kakazu, used intelligence to free kakashi from zabuza'a water prison, tricked pain a few times. He also learned how to do rasengan in a week after jiraiya showed him it once. Kakashi did his job as a teacher and showed naruto the basic principles. But naruto had to do the rest. Like I said kakashi himself couldn't figure out how to add the chakra nature, and he was impressed by how fast naruto was learning. That's intelligence. Sakura and choji also compared his intelligence to shikamaru. So really, all the evidence in the manga depicts him as smart. Using the shadow clones to help with sage mode was intelligence. He knew from prior training shadow clones transfer back experience to the user, so he took that concept and applied it to his new training. Kakashi wasn't there to tell naruto to do that, naruto clearly is able to absorb and apply knowledge, and that's intelligence. Naruto isn't dumb he is just goofy, just like jiraiya. That databook stat, wherever you got that from, directly contradicts the manga, where several characters outright marveled at naruto's intelligence. You are not giving credit where credit is due </p>

<p>@Shishi, I specified you because you were much worse than MlGShinobi was. While they did get irritated, they mainly kept it at bay, which is fine; a lot of users will get a little heated. Trust me, they and I have had talks about their forum behaviour before, I'm not being biased. You have been much worse as of this discussion. </p><p>Even if MlGShinobi was being nearly as bad as you, that doesn't condone you throwing insults left and right either. If I happened to miss something extremely offensive he said, bring it to my attention, or another mod. Don't hide behind his actions to justify your own. </p><p>Bleh. Anyways. I think Jiraiya would have been able to win. But barely. Very barely. </p>

<p>Well, with the prep they are giving him, he would start off going for the genjustu right away. So yea , he can probably hold off long enough to do so, but I highly doubt it. </p>

<p>@Asian, as I said. Don't talk towards me if you aren't going to talk to MLG about behavior. It takes a 2 cause infliction. Even if I was worst, that does not condone less bad behavior. I do not justify my behavior however, I feel equalism is due. But enough of this topic, back on topic. </p><p>@MLG No, you brought up Naruto's training and Rasenshuriken as if it was an intelligence feat as if he came up with the entire idea on his own, that's the only reason I brought it up. Also that S Rank you refer to, is actually a B rank technique, kinda over classing a technique there bub. And that applying knowledge, anything can do that. Dogs can do that. You tell a dog to sit for treats and eventually without a treat they can do it. Anyways there is no use in explaining myself, it's you who should when Kishi states my evidence. Therefore, you need to address the topic with Kishi, cause as far as Kishi is concerned, Naruto is an Idiot. And Naruto is his main character. </p>

<p>Dude the log is there, you started with the insults out of nowhere and I retaliate d on a much lower level. And Asian did address me, nothing was sugar coated. Rasenshuriken is a feat of intelligence because jiraiya, kakashi, and minato couldn't figure out how to do it but naruto could. I'm not gonna explain why that logic is flawed. Issac newtown learned from his teacher that 5+ 5 =10 . And from there after studying in college he expanded his knowledge on math after studying Gallieo's work he figured out the laws of motions. So isacc Newton didn't figure out everything by himself and there fore by your logic he isn't smart. And please, there is a huge difference between sentience and intelligence. A dog sitting down for treats is simply following orders, that's sentience. Following orders=/= being able to understand and apply advanced knowledge, which is intelligence. Even stupid people can follow orders. You go to ridiculous lengths to undermine naruto. Kakashi didn tell him how to make rasenshuriken because he himself didn't know, he gave naruto the basic principles and naruto figured out the rest. And plus you are ignoring the countless other feats in favor of a random databook number that has no substantiation backing it and contradicts the manga. </p>

<p>It might just be me but everytime there is a argument on these threads that get out of hand, the same people are involved. You know who you are. Shape it up or consequences will be given. </p>

<p>@Shishi... excuse me? Did I not explain it well enough? No, I guess not. I will talk towards you, if I feel I need to, as a forum mod. I've already talked to MlGShinobi about behaviour in the past, and he's been quite cooperative. Like I said, however, MlGShinobi's behaviour has not been nearly as offensive as yours in this thread (or can you prove otherwise?). You've stepped out of line. </p><p>All users get a little heated, as I've explained. Calling him an "idiot who claims irrelevant things" and calling him "dumb," "idiotic," and "mental" are all examples of going too far. @MlGShinobi has not gone that far, except perhaps in the case of responding (I've seen him respond, "you are the one who's mental," which is wrong, despite being in direct response to you insulting his intelligence). In any case, it has been you who has been consistently insulting him, not the other way around. </p><p>Just letting you know, this is your first Forum Warning. The official one will be on your talkpage. If you take issue with it, bring it to my talkpage or bring it to another mod/sysop. </p>

<p>@MLB Doesn't matter if it contradicts the Manga, tons of things contradict the Manga and we take them as fact now. In originality Susanoo users needed Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, however that later changed. Now Kishi has changed something else, no way is it surprising since he does it often. Kishi has Naruto as a 1, don't like it, take it up with the writer. </p><p>@Asian, I honestly don't even care about the warning or even being banned. I can just as easily make a new account. LOL. Also I have not said anything more offensive as MLG. "Dumb" "idiotic" "Mental" are just as bad as "Mental" and "Ignorant" if you say otherwise then you are biased. Was I out of line? Sure. Was I only at fault? Nah. It takes two opposing forces to cause friction. </p>

<p>So...what I think is: If Jiraya already knew the secret of Pain the battle would happen, basically, the same way it did but he would know that he had to wait until for all 6 to enter in battle so he could use the genjutsu. If it succeded he would "kill" all of them with the stone swords, then he could use one of his frogs (the one he used to trap Animal Path) to keep the corpses and keep them away from Nagato. After that he would go after Nagato and do whatever he wanted, kill him, convert him.... </p>