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ALL POSTSDebunking how strong Itachi is.
<p>There is a misconception that with the Totsuka blade and the Yata Mirror Itachi is invincible and no one can defeat him. But that is completely false.
</p><p>By that logic the invincible Kaguya would have never been sealed, the Ten Tails would have never been defeat by Hagaromo and Hamura nor restrained by Hashirama, Pain would have not lost against Naruto, and Madara's perfect susanoo sword would be able to destroy everything when it couldn't destory a wood golem.
</p><p>Yes the Totsuka blade is an extremely powerful weapon that seals anything it pierces. However since it's a sword it has a certain range. It's not something that can extend to any length chosen by the user. Further more the blade can be dodged, like any other sword. Nor is there any evidence that it can pierce a susanoo or other things just as hard or harder with one stab.
</p><p>The third databook claims that the Yata Mirror is invincible and that nothing can get past it. Well even so you can attack Itachi's feet so therefore he can be pulled from the susanoo. However just regarding the databooks, the databooks are used to supplement the manga only. The manga, canon movies, and anime trump the databooks as databooks just explain certain things that weren't made clear in the original material. They are not some infallable books. If that were true all tailed beasts would be mindless monsters, anyone with a higher stat rating than Itachi would win, Kurama would be the only one to know the origin of the sharingan, etc. While the Yata Mirror was never retconned, it never has been used after the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. You see it when Itachi fights Pain but it never was used. Now going by the logic before Madara's perfect susanoo sword would pierce the shield considering it can destroy all things in the universe (I think that if the mirror did get hit by Madara's sword enough times it would shatter). We have never seen the Yata Mirror being used to defend anything other than a couple of paper bombs. Itachi's susanoo was also utterly destroyed by Kirin so where was the Yata Mirror then?
</p><p>My interpretation is that previous databook information is outdated if retconned in future databooks. Since these things get updated unless the manga or anime support the claims of the databook then I am under the belief that the claim should be disregarded. Going back to the Yata mirror only the databook really says how invincible the mirror is supposed to be, Black Zetsu only says that it can withstand the five elements.
</p><p>Thoughts anyone?
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<p>Because your argument is basically a stereotype with no evidence support ing it. All your evidence like the prime hiruzen thing plus gaara thing were either CLEAR retcons or a development of facts or a character who didn't have credibility. For example are we really gonna believe obito saying you need hashriama cells to use izanagi when it was shown that you don't? That was clearly either a retcon or character ignorance. Like I said, show me evidence that the yata mirror's abilities were retconned. Manga page and chapter. Otherwise denying capabilities is just pure bias with dime underlying motive.
</p><p>@Tengen dbz logic is basically saying that if we haven't seen it tank a planet busting attack, then LOL it can't block the attack because we don't have the feat! The feat isn't necessary because the writer says that the shield adapts to the attributes of the attack, essentially playing copy cat, whether its a ninjutsu , physical attack, or ASTRAL body. If you wanted more feats then go back in time and aak Kishimoto to show more feats, because otherwise we don't have them. Hype is enough if it is given by a credible source andnwith an explanation. The shield turns back any attack so that's what it does. Saying the yata mirror isn't legit simply because you haven't seen it tank a planet busting attack is dbz logic.
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(Edited by MlGshinobi)
<p>@MIG: Why don't YOU show me proper FEATS of the YM instead of just ranting around like a bot? Like I said, the Yata Mirror's description is VAGUE, and hence further FEATS or more <i>precise</i> explanation of the Yata Mirror's capabilities are required. The burden of proof is on YOU, not us. Why? Because, for the umpteenth time, KISHI IS AN UNRELIABLE NARRATOR!! If you can't address that, then please don't bother to reply. You either don't know how to infer conclusions based on available evidence, or you're just an Itachi fanboy who's too desperate to see Itachi win at any cost. I have no idea which one is true.
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(Edited by BakumatsuWarrior)
<p>The description isn't vague at all. It's simple, the shield that turns back any attack, whether it be ninjutsu, astralbody or a physical attack. It's not anymore complicated than that. How does the shield do so? Also simple. Alters its attributes in accordance with the attack, in basic terms, if a meteor hits the shield it matches the meteor and breaks it apart. If a fire wind attack hits it it counters with water and fire. If snakes hit it it counters. It's that simple. The shield also can chsnge any of it's properties, so it can be as big as it needs to be to counter the attack. There you go with the dbz logic again, so you need to see the yata mirror tank a supernova too? Don't use the burden of proof card on me when I stacked a document with the WRITER's words on the table that has not been retconned in any shape or form. You are basically misleading others by using examples where there was the obvious retcon when in this case there isn't. And yea, you can pull the fanboy card too, implying that I so head over heels enjoy the fact itachi has an overpowered shield. I simply give credit where it is due , i'm indifferent to itachi being the one to poessess such a shield but with his intelligence he probably deserves it.It's the equivalent of calling someone a superman fanboy because they admit his kryptonian abilities are over powered as hell. So no the burden of proof is on you to refute kishi moto's words, and so far , all that has been presented are incomparable examples.
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(Edited by MlGshinobi)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>in basic terms, if a meteor hits the shield it matches the meteor and breaks it apart.
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<p>So if the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, which was about 10 kilometers in diameter, were to head towards Itachi, then the shield would magically turn into a 10-km wide shield to protect Itachi and the rest of the ninja world? After all, the Shield can change <i>all</i> of its properties, right? THIS is what I mean when I say that the Yata Mirror's definition is VAGUE and AMBIGUOUS. </p><p>What "property" can it change, and to what <i>extent</i>? What does <i>all properties</i> even mean? If someone with a Rinnegan performs a hugeass Chibaku Tensei, can the Shield produce anti-gravitational forces to counter that? After all, the Yata Mirror can counter "any" attack, right? Whether they be ninjutsu, spiritual, or physical, right? Surely, Chibaku Tensei is ninjutsu as well as physical. Surely, Itachi could have simply taken out the mirror when dealing with Edo Nagato's Chibaku Tensei and destroyed that meanass bitch with Anti-gravity waves. But he didn't. Instead, he sought Naruto and Bee's help. So much for the magical ability of the Mirror to change any of its properties. </p><p>And if by this time, you still haven't grasped how truly VAGUE and AMBIGUOUS the Yata Mirror's supposed capabilities really are, and if you can't fathom how much of a problem this creates in VS discussions, then I have nothing more to say. And I don't care if you call it "dbz logic" or "tank-a-supernova logic" or whatever name that fancies you. The logic is valid, that's all I care about. </p>
<p>So if the meteor that killed the dinosaurs, which was about 10 kilometers in diameter, were to head towards Itachi, then the shield would magically turn into a 10-km wide shield to protect Itachi and the rest of the ninja world? After all, the Shield can change <i>all</i> of its properties, right? THIS is what I mean when I say that the Yata Mirror's definition is VAGUE and AMBIGUOUS. </p><p>What "property" can it change, and to what <i>extent</i>? What does <i>all properties</i> even mean? If someone with a Rinnegan performs a hugeass Chibaku Tensei, can the Shield produce anti-gravitational forces to counter that? After all, the Yata Mirror can counter "any" attack, right? Whether they be ninjutsu, spiritual, or physical, right? Surely, Chibaku Tensei is ninjutsu as well as physical. Surely, Itachi could have simply taken out the mirror when dealing with Edo Nagato's Chibaku Tensei and destroyed that meanass bitch with Anti-gravity waves. But he didn't. Instead, he sought Naruto and Bee's help. So much for the magical ability of the Mirror to change any of its properties. </p><p>And if by this time, you still haven't grasped how truly VAGUE and AMBIGUOUS the Yata Mirror's supposed capabilities really are, and if you can't fathom how much of a problem this creates in VS discussions, then I have nothing more to say. And I don't care if you call it "dbz logic" or "tank-a-supernova logic" or whatever name that fancies you. The logic is valid, that's all I care about. </p>
(Edited by BakumatsuWarrior)
<p>Ok now that's actually legitimate reasoning. The intricate mechanics of how the shield actually alters its attirbutes are ambiguous, but kishimoto doesn't have to subscribe to those in the fandom who want a strict scientific explanation, its a manga for entertainment. And yea, Kishimoto is a bad writer for jot taking that extra step. I addressed the nagato incident before , two things: plot, wnd it wasnt necessary for what was needed. It's the same reason itachi used amaterasu on nagato instead of just sealing him with the totsuka blade, it's all to drag out the battle. Even if the shield creates an anti gravitate force, that just renders him station ary and he has naruto and bee to worry about as well as taking out nagato. Destroying the core was the more proactive choice as it stops the attack actively and created a huge smoke screen to catch nagato off guard. The shield can change any of its properties but it only does so for the attack at hand, meaning the shield is sentient, commanded by itachi, or some combination of both much like gaara's sand. In either case, the yata mirror wasn't used because itachi was using a lower stage of susanoo, so he felt it wasn't necessary and he was right. Why the shield wasnt used again? Plot and bad writing. But that doesn't automatically make it a reason to ignore in vs battles, because as far as we concerned it theoretically doesn't have a known limit. So yea, it does bring an issue of logistics, but that's about it, so we have to go by what we have. So it's best to assume that as long as itachi's stamina holds, nothing is getting through that shield. The only possibility is underground attacks at itachi's feet probably.
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(Edited by MlGshinobi)
<p>Again, being super technical and literal. The YM adapts to any "attack" not attacks, therefore multiple natured attacks won't be countered.
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(Edited by Ninja Of War)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Gmanis41 wrote:
By that logic the invincible Kaguya would have never been sealed, the Ten Tails would have never been defeat by Hagaromo and Hamura nor restrained by Hashirama, Pain would have not lost against Naruto, and Madara's perfect susanoo sword would be able to destroy everything when it couldn't destory a wood golem.
</p><p>Itachi's susanoo was also utterly destroyed by Kirin so where was the Yata Mirror then?
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<p>What? None of those things have anything to do with the Yata Mirror at all. No one ever called any of those characters invincible, and no one said Madara's sword could destroy everything. Kirin never destroyed Susanoo. Itachi brought up Susanoo, and then passed out after it tanked Kirin, causing it to dissipate. Stop making stuff up. New fans will believe you and spread the misinformation around. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Marc Zaddy wrote: As for the post, Yata caps at mountain level </p> </i></div>
<p>HAHAHAHA! Wow it must be nice to just make things up like that in discussions. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: Again, being super technical and literal. The YM adapts to any "attack" not attacks, therefore multiple natured attacks won't be countered. </p> </i></div>
<p>A multiple natured attack is still a single attack. </p>
<p>What? None of those things have anything to do with the Yata Mirror at all. No one ever called any of those characters invincible, and no one said Madara's sword could destroy everything. Kirin never destroyed Susanoo. Itachi brought up Susanoo, and then passed out after it tanked Kirin, causing it to dissipate. Stop making stuff up. New fans will believe you and spread the misinformation around. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Marc Zaddy wrote: As for the post, Yata caps at mountain level </p> </i></div>
<p>HAHAHAHA! Wow it must be nice to just make things up like that in discussions. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: Again, being super technical and literal. The YM adapts to any "attack" not attacks, therefore multiple natured attacks won't be countered. </p> </i></div>
<p>A multiple natured attack is still a single attack. </p>
(Edited by Darth Itachi)
<p>^No, multiple natured attacks attacking at the same time. Example; Gaara, Temari, Kankuro and Darui all attacking Sasuke with their respective jutsus in the summit arc.
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(Edited by Ninja Of War)
<p>I want to point out that despite this shield being called invincible, Itachi only used it once in the series. He didn't use it against Kirin, for instance. To me it raises questions like, what powers this shield? Is it like a Sage of six paths tool that drains massive amounts of chakra? Because, why else would Itachi use such an ultimate defense so conservatively? Kirin would be a much bigger threat than just some kunai Sasuke threw, even though he used the shield against the Kunai only.
</p><p>I would expect that if Yata blocked say a meteor and had to become 10km wide, it would proportionally require more chakra to make it that big and deflect the blast.
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<p>MlGshinobi wrote:
And yea, Kishimoto is a bad writer for jot taking that extra step.
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<p>There aren't more than 24 hours in a day, and the guy already spent 20 of those on work. He didn't have a vacation in 15 years. taking that extra step would've meant he would've taken that time from something else. </p>
<p>There aren't more than 24 hours in a day, and the guy already spent 20 of those on work. He didn't have a vacation in 15 years. taking that extra step would've meant he would've taken that time from something else. </p>
(Edited by Thekillman)
<p>@Ninja of war, the yata mirror has already been shown tanking multiple attacks. And sasuke tanked those attacks with a lower stage of susanoo, so saying the yata mirror can't with no evidence is just bias.
</p><p>@Killman, he didn't use it because of plot. His only major battle was against sasuke and sasuke wasn't powerful enough to show you the planet busting feats everyone wants to see in this thread. Then versus kabuto he didn't use armored susanoo at all. Kishimoto not having a break in 15 years doesn't excuse poor, and inconsistent writing because other writers have done better.
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(Edited by MlGshinobi)