<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: I'm not saying that BoD is some godly technique that can bring down any Uchiha, it obviously must have limitations. The genjutsu probably has a short duration and wears off. Besides, being blind doesn't even slow Madara down as we all know well. Of course, one of the reasons that Hashirama didn't use BoD on Madara is the same reason he didn't use Sage art: True Several Thousand hands technique from the start of their battle at VoTE, plot. </p> </i></div>
<p>I'm sorry, but your argument of Bringer of Darkness doesn't work on the Sharingan, much less the RInnegan. One of the Sharingan's established powers is seeing through Genjutsu, which was established way back in Part I during the Chunin Exams. Sasuke has the strongest Dojutsu available, EMS and Rinnegan. He sees through BoD like its nothing. </p>

<p>It won't work on dojutsu directly, it would block signals from the brain to the eyes, effectively making the target's eyes useless. So using the Sharingan to "see" through genjutsu won't be possible, because under this genjutsu the target won't see anything in the first place. I hope you can understand this argument. </p>

<p>@Supersayiaman, it was outright stated that madara got stronger once he was revived, deny manga facts if you want. @Ninja of War, that's not how the genjustu works, it isn't actual darkness, it made hiruzen and his shadow clones perceive infinite darkness around them, it's a genjustu that simply messes with the user sight and doesn't impair your other senses. All genjustu messes with your sense of sigh t and make you see stuff that isn't there. The sharingan can easily detect the darkness, just like sasuke saw through Cee's infinite light blinding genjustu. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>MlGshinobi wrote: @Supersayiaman, it was outright stated that madara got stronger once he was revived, deny manga facts if you want. @Ninja of War, that's not how the genjustu works, it isn't actual darkness, it made hiruzen and his shadow clones perceive infinite darkness around them, it's a genjustu that simply messes with the user sight and doesn't impair your other senses. All genjustu messes with your sense of sigh t and make you see stuff that isn't there. The sharingan can easily detect the darkness, just like sasuke saw through Cee's infinite light blinding genjustu. </p> </i></div>
<p>That was Hashirama's misconception, MIGShinobi. Hashirama is no longer an expert on Madara, he couldn't know what he was thinking. We have a canon statement that Madara in his Edo Form was far stronger than he was in life, far stronger than his prime. And question: what's Hashirama's counter to Madara just using Outer Path to control him after impaling him with those six Chakra Recievers? Ohthat's right, he has no counter and Hashirama didn't even realize he had already lost. </p>

<p>^^^ I think he meant that Madara got stronger after being revived with Obito's Rinne Tensei which would be accurate as it was shown and stated that Edotensei are brought back with less strength than when they were alive, so edo Madara is stronger than EMS Madara, but not as strong as one eyed Rinnegan Madara. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>SuperSaiyaMan wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>MlGshinobi wrote: @Supersayiaman, it was outright stated that madara got stronger once he was revived, deny manga facts if you want. @Ninja of War, that's not how the genjustu works, it isn't actual darkness, it made hiruzen and his shadow clones perceive infinite darkness around them, it's a genjustu that simply messes with the user sight and doesn't impair your other senses. All genjustu messes with your sense of sigh t and make you see stuff that isn't there. The sharingan can easily detect the darkness, just like sasuke saw through Cee's infinite light blinding genjustu. </p> </i></div>
<p>That was Hashirama's misconception, MIGShinobi. Hashirama is no longer an expert on Madara, he couldn't know what he was thinking. We have a canon statement that Madara in his Edo Form was far stronger than he was in life, far stronger than his prime. And question: what's Hashirama's counter to Madara just using Outer Path to control him after impaling him with those six Chakra Recievers? Ohthat's right, he has no counter and Hashirama didn't even realize he had already lost. </p> </div> <p>Do I really need to post reference for this? Even madara said that tobirama was weaker as an edo tensi, and he said the senju brothers could no longer keep up with their former selves due to being the edo zombies. Madara was stronger in his prime because of kabuto's further modifications, but that doesn't change the manga fact that he was still weaker than his full potential due to being an edo tensi. Hashriama was a good deal stronger when they fought in real life, and he beats him in stamina by just enough to win everyy time. Even after gaining the rinnegan and mokuton, madara was still not able to fully close the gap. And the rods, whoo knows when he implanted those. He hsd to plant those rods manually into obito in order to use them , so that was either plot or happened sometime off panel. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>MlGshinobi wrote: Do I really need to post reference for this? Even madara said that tobirama was weaker as an edo tensi, and he said the senju brothers could no longer keep up with their former selves due to being the edo zombies. Madara was stronger in his prime because of kabuto's further modifications, but that doesn't change the manga fact that he was still weaker than his full potential due to being an edo tensi. Hashriama was a good deal stronger when they fought in real life, and he beats him in stamina by just enough to win everyy time. Even after gaining the rinnegan and mokuton, madara was still not able to fully close the gap. And the rods, whoo knows when he implanted those. He hsd to plant those rods manually into obito in order to use them , so that was either plot or happened sometime off panel. </p> </i></div>
<p>Tobirama and Hashirama were 98 to 99% close to their full strength from Orochimaru's incomplete Edo Tensei. Madara was brought back and enhanced by Kabuto, brought back stronger than he was in life (word for word) due to possessing the Rinnegan and Mokuton. Hashirama was played for a <i>fool</i>, he didn't understand the danger of the chakra receivers and let himself get stabbed <i>six times</i>. You understand this right? All Madara needed to do was use a seal and turn Hashirama into a people puppet. </p>

<p>(Tobirama and Hashirama were 98 to 99%)how the hell you know that?The edo tenseis are weaker than they were in life,hashirama himself said that after madara got revived by rinne tensei madara gained back his full power from the past. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Narutopwnu7 wrote: (Tobirama and Hashirama were 98 to 99%)how the hell you know that?The edo tenseis are weaker than they were in life,hashirama himself said that after madara got revived by rinne tensei madara gained back his full power from the past. </p> </i></div>
<p>Its an educated guess considering that Orochimaru had almost perfected Edo Tensei when he revived them. And no, Orochimaru's Edo Tensei are weaker than they are in life since his isn't completed and perfected. Kabuto's is explicitly said to be able to bring back a shinobi back at full power (Muu vs Onoki), or in Madara's case, bring them back far stronger than they were in their Prime. </p><p>When people say Hashirama and Tobirama are weaker than they are in life, they act like they are what, 50% of what they were? Even less? </p>

<p>That number has no substantiation. The edo tensei are close to full strength, but there is still an obvious gap because hashirama and madara both said that being an edo tensi makes you weaker. No hashirama wasn't played for a fool, madara was seconds away from being sealed but just in the nick of time black zetsu revived him, giving him the power boost to subdue hashirama. Hashriama letting himself be stabbed by those rods was just a bad personality trait, he is used to heal ing off all damage. But it wouldn't have mattered if black zetsu didnt revive madara. </p>