<p>@Trappedinmygenjutsu. 1. It does not make any more sense on him to use tsukuyomi if he doesn't want to gain anything from it. </p><p>Though Itachi's core goal was for Sasuke to kill him, I expect it was something he wished before Sasuke had Orochimaru at risk of possesing him. Now it was more of between risking his beloved brother's life for something he wished to hide or just straight out make Oro get out of him or make Sasuke release Oro out of him. the second idea seems more applicable seeing that it doesn't lay the risk of his brother being possesed by a immortal creepy Snake guy forever since he would atleast die and be saved from him. </p><p>There can also be a chance of Itachi just straight away making Sasuke think that's he's in real life fighting him and so in the end of the tsukuyomi he will kill him. cause you know the genjutsu seemed to be more real based for a reason(other then the famous Watered down version of Tsukuyomi which I don't believe at all) and then he might as well supply him off alot of Amaterasu seals other than just one considering Itachi's smart and so would expect 'Madara' to escape from that one, and also taking that he did the last one when he was able to get enough close to Sasuke and when he only had that much chakra left for him. and maybe also prepare something for Danzo since he knows that Danzo could be a danger to Sasuke, he could have used more seals for Danzo too. </p><p>So it seems possible for him to do so and also considering there's a possible way for extracting Oro out of CM users, seeing that Sasuke even used it and that Itachi's a genius and would also search for ways to save his beloved brother. </p><p>2.Actually we haven't.Tsukuyomi at it's strongest was possibly with Kakashi or Sasuke(though I think the reason Sasuke got a 24 hour tsukuyomi instead of a 72 hour was because of maybe his uchiha blood resistence) the one you're talking about happened in a novel. in which even in it's anime version it wasn't shown. and we already how much non canon stuff they have and yet they didn't think it was to animated, so there<i>s that. And her sharingan was not compared to a guy who trained his whole life under the two geniuses. and was pure Uchiha and the closest blood relative possible and a reincarnation of Indra.</i> Oh and I think the girl you're mentioning is Izumi right? </p><p>3.It still was different from his other two and so had to be noticed if it was watered down that is. He should know about it. </p><p>4.Tsukuyomi itself doesn't actually kill the target. If the target has a sharingan then he very well can atleast survive it long enough to be treated for it. Remember in the Tsukuyomi, Sasuke really shouldn't have known that he was in a Tsukuyomi. So Itachi very well could have done many things to save his brother and not reveal the truth. </p><p>But this all doesn't actually explain the Amaterasu part, where he literally ignited his brother with the highest level of fire release jutsu, black flames that cannot be put down. </p><p>5.Why would it be suspicious? it can easily be ignored with the reason of eye contact. Sasuke could just speculate that he wasn't able to make clear enough eye contact. Every single shinobi uses only a small amount of jutsus for their uses even if they have alot more. like Kakashi. He could also just think that it was due to low chakra and all. </p><p>I don't see the need of using Tsukuyomi if it suppose to be a watered down version. Though I don't see how it wouldn't be suspisious for Itachi to fall down all of a sudden from Susanoo and then poke at Sasuke's forehead smiling and saying that he is sorry and that there won't be a next time? and wouldn't Sasuke be suspicious about suddenly using Amaterasu out of nowhere at 'Madara'. </p><p>And anyways, it wasn't like Itachi had other plans, like sealing his brother and preparing koto for changing Sasuke.s </p>

<p>No lol,novels are considered as cannon because they were supervised by kishi himself.Second sasuke did not resist tsukuyomi in part 1,itachi didnt even want to kill him LOL.``Its still different from his other two and so had to be noticed if it was watered down.``Wrong,sasuke knew itachi his entire childhood yet still bellived itachi turned evil.Obito himself said that sasuke did not break the illusion made by itachi.Like,how would sasuke notice as 12 years old kid and getting 24 hours straight tortured?You are expecting him to notice the difference while it may not even be possible for sasuke to do so.I will say once again,tsukuyomi is 1s/of the real time.Sasuke and itachi fought far longer than 1 second in that watered down version. </p>

<p>@Kakashisologod1, novels weren't <i>supervised</i>, they were <i>illustrated</i> by Kishimoto, I think you've confused it with the case of Boruto manga which is actually <i>supervised</i> by him. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Namikazenaruto9 wrote: I thought Watered down Tsukuyomi meant lesser time dilation. 1 sec being equivalent to a week is a weaker Tsukuyomi than one in which 1 sec of real world is equivalent to a year in genjutsu

I read through most arguments and I quit agree with most of them as they all fit in the scenario. But here are a few conclusion I have made:

Non Uchiha can't even hope to survive this genjutsu. Most of the non uchihas would be dead if they get hit by it. They won't escape no matter what if they get caught.(think abt hashirama, tobirama etc)

Even among the uchihas most won't break, as the required condition was to be close relative. Even if we take EMS madara its highly unlikely he would be able to break it on his first try though perhaps he might become resistant to it on subsequent attempts like sasuke. </p> </i></div>
<p>"Same blood" does not refer to a close family member. It refers to Uchiha blood. We know this because Itachi was talking about Uchiha blood when he says "we are the true masters of the Sharingan." right before his statement about "same blood," meaning he is clearly putting all Uchiha's in the same category as himself. Kakashi tells Asuma and Kurenai to close their eyes because, "only another person with a Sharingan can probably fight with his." Kakashi is clearly talking about himself, not an Uchiha at all. By saying "that is true (meaning Kakashi's claim about himself) only another Sharingan user (Kakashi or someone like him) could challenge me... some resistance could be made to this Mange Sharingan... Only a Sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me," Itachi addresses Kakashi's claim, meaning Itachi is talking about Kakashi, not any Uchiha at all. He never says "close relative." He only says "same blood," meaning "our blood" as he mentioned moments before, meaning "Uchiha blood," nothing else. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BrainBrand wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>Ravenlot 27 wrote: As I and some other people already said, Sasuke could've used the time manipulation aspect to his advantage, breaking Tsukuyomi from inside out, which didn't allow it to run in his head for an extended period of time, i.e. he could've broken it for 1/<i>some</i> of a minute in a real time while it was <i>some</i> minute within the Tsukuyomi time. </p> </i></div>
<p>Kakashi indicated that the opposite was true. Kakashi said </p>

"He uses mangekyou sharingan. It's more powerful than the original sharingan. If you're caught by his ocular jutsu, <i>he has you instantly. It has nothing to do with whether you can defeat genjutsu or not."</i>

</div> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BrainBrand wrote: So Itachi said Tsukuyomi can't be broken and Kakashi implied it was useless to attempt it. </p> </i></div>
<p>Only way you could believe this is if you totally ignored the context of the conversation. Chiyo was specifically talking about a situation where there were two people: one who got caught and one to break him out. She says, "If it's one on one, surely flee. If it's two on one, take the rear... Even if that's impossible, they can help their partner by cancelling the genjutsu themselves." She's not even talking about a situation where someone caught in a genjutsu is trying to break out of it, only the one where their partner breaks them out of it. </p><p>Kakashi then remarks specifically on the situation that Chiyo was talking about by saying, "Well, that's (meaning what Chiyo just said) alright for a normal genjutsu level, but in this case... it will be a little more trouble. He uses an eye jutsu that surpasses the original Sharingan, the Mangekyou Sharingan. If you are struck by that eye jutsu, his genjutsu can affect you in an instant. There is no cancelling the effects of it." In other words, he's telling them that Chiyo's strategy will not work. He isn't even talking about anything else. </p><p>And not only that, but Kakashi intentionally reveals to Itachi that he himself has acquired the Mangekyou Sharingan. He does this by asking Itachi about his macular degeneration, lol. Itachi is like Dafuq? "Kakakashi-san... impossible, you..." Itachi now knows Kakashi has Mangekyou and is shocked as hell that a non-uchiha could do that. </p><p>Kakashi then says, "Well! Last time I was unprepared," (meaning he didn't have Mangekyou before) "but I'm not like that this time. This won't go the same way it did last time." (meaning now I have Mangekyou and you can't do to me what you did before) In the context of the conversation, Kakashi is clearly stating Mangekyou can fight Mangekyou. </p>

<p>@BlazeRelease </p><p>Edit: So sorry for the length of this post. </p><p>You made some great points. The main reason that I believe that he wouldn't risk ending the battle so early, is because Itachi was ridiculously fixed on the idea of dying by Sasuke's hands. </p><p>As a major point, I don't think this is a separate "watered down" version of Tsukuyomi. Every technique can be used with a varying array of expertise. Itachi in these scenarios is, holding back his techniques so he doesn't go overboard with the damage he does. He always walks the fine line between looking serious, and not outright killing his allies (Leaf ninja and Sasuke). </p><p>1.Itachi's core character flaw was forcing Sasuke on this crazy vendetta rather than being open with his younger brother. He spent nearly a decade of deceiving every one of his true intentions, and even managed to trick Sasuke, Kisame, the Uchiha, & Kakashi about who he was as a person. </p><p>Orochimaru in the grand scheme of things, was not a major threat to Itachi. He had to be extracted at some point in that battle, but Itachi always had his trump card (Susanoo) waiting for Orochimaru. </p><p>When I went back and analysed the battle again for small details, I found it is interesting how Itachi shifts the flow of the battle from the different ninja arts (Shurikenjutsu, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, etc). It almost looks like Itachi used this battle as a final test to Sasuke, to prepare him from the likes of Orochimaru, Danzo, and Madara. He certainly pushed Sasuke hard, but always seemed to ease up whenever Sasuke was in any major trouble. </p><p>2.Tsukuyomi has definitely been used in a "pulled punch" manner throughout the series. The only time Itachi went for the kill in the series was in the Uchiha massacre. He was able to distort time and space in that scenario to the extent that Izami's brain was not able to process the information quick enough which lead to her death (as well as her body thinking that she died of natural causes). Even this version was merciful compared to using that time to constantly torture his victim. </p><p>Sasuke (as a child) would have been dead if Itachi didn't "pull his punch" with that Tsukuyomi. Itachi didn't want to kill the likes of Kakashi and Sasuke, and logically wouldn't have tried to kill either of them. </p><p>3.Sasuke is one of the smartest characters in the series, but he was not able to tell Itachi's true intentions for nearly a whole decade. It honestly would be more surprising if Sasuke noticed anything different, especially considering Sasuke was tunnel visioned by his Revenge. </p><p>4.Genjustu can't usually kill a person, but Itachi has been shown to be able to accomplish this feat (against someone with a fully matured sharingan as well). Incapacitating (even extremely fatiguing) Sasuke would have ruined the whole point of the fight. </p><p>The main explanation for the Ameterasu part of the fight, is that Itachi was aware of some techniques that Orochimaru would have passed on to Sasuke (as Orochimaru is a pain in the ass to kill). Another explanation, was that Itachi had a method for removing the flames from Sasuke if it really got to that extreme point (removing flames like Sasuke, fire sealing like Jiraiya, or possibly Totsuka blade?). </p><p>Itachi couldn't expect this level of defence from Genjutsu though considering Sasuke's two major mentors (Kakashi and Orochimaru) stood no chance against Itachi's Sharingan abilities. Orochimaru in particular was laughable in terms of going against Itachi's genjutsu (Itachi using base sharingan, and not even making eye contact completely immobilising him). </p><p>
5.Genjustu (and in particular Tsukuyomi) had to be used in this fight. It's his trademark ability and it's a part of his identity. Not using this ability would have been a colossal red flag, and even watchers of the series would've probably been genuinely pissed off if a character didn't use their signature ability in a fight. This is like Naruto not using the shadow clone justu in a fight, it just would have been way to obvious that something was off. </p>

<p>This long posts,Jesus. </p>

<p>
@CyberianGinsing: </p><p>The context of the situation did not imply that Kakashi was talking only about Chiyo's methods of breaking genjutsu. What Kakashi and Chiyo said is similar to this: </p><p>Chiyo: if we stab his armor with this technique he'll go down </p><p>Kakashi: In this case that won't work. He uses a superior armor to the original. It doesn't matter what technique you use, they won't work on it. </p><p>Like I illustrated above Kakashi said in a general sense, not in a specific sense that cancelling the effects will not work. He may of started of talking specifically about specific methods, but then he moved to general methods. If he meant Chiyo's method were the only ones that won't work he could of said "His genjutsu is instant, those methods will not work." Instead of "His genjutsu is instant, there is no cancelling the affects of it." </p><p>
Kakashi having the MS actually supports my point. Kakashi fought without looking in the eye despite having MS. Kakashi didn't think his MS could defeat Tsukuyomi. </p>

<p>Well, Kakashi obviously didn't mean that there's no way to break Tsukuomi at all, especially since he was told otherwise by Itachi himself in their previous confrontation. The only thing he could mean is that nobody from his current team would be able to withstand Tsukuyomi at the moment, which isn't that surprising, because a) Naruto couldn't even cancel Itachi's basic genjutsu by himself b) while Sakura and Chiyo obviously could withstand usual genjutsu, Tsukuyomi's calibre is too much for them c) I don't think Kakashi himself would risk falling for Tsukuyomi the second time since there's no guarantee he could fight it even with his MS. However, I'd like to note it's a pointless case to discuss as Itachi immediately told Kakashi he couldn't use MS at the moment (because of the 30% chakra clone body). </p>

<p>So annoying when people type in quote boxes. Makes it hard to find their replies when they make no effort to distinguish from the quote. If you're going to do that, could you please use bold text for you answer? </p><p>Lol. No. He was responding to her saying you could "cancel" the genjutsu from the outside. He says there won't be any such "cancelling." </p><p>We know only that the jutsu can't be cancelled from the outside when there's time dilation. Kakashi sites this as the reason by saying "it can affect you in an instant." The only people for whom it's an instant are the people who are outside of it. Sorry, this doesn't support your claim. You have to really stretch Kakashi's words to get <i>Tsukuyomi can never be broken, under any circumstances, so don't even try!</i> </p><p>In any case, Kakashi is not an authority on all people with Sharingans. He only knows what he's been able to find out about himself. This only applies to him and other transplant recipients. He cannot speak for all Uchihas, especially since Sasuke broke Tsukuyomi, which he never even finds out about. He's clearly confident about his own chances, though. He's mainly concerned about everyone else. </p><p>Please, explicitly state exactly what you're referring to with Kakashi "fought without looking." Kind of hard to tell when I have to read a bunch of pages to find what you're talking about. </p><p>Where did Kakashi say he was doing what he's very clearly advising everyone without a Sharingan to do? Tell me the chapter where he says this, please; I don't see it. </p><p>If you're talking about, Kakashi ducking underground, that's what he often does, due to being an earth user, who relies on guile to win. He's never shown avoiding Itachi's gaze or looking at his feet. Was he afraid Pain was going to put him in genjutsu too? </p>

<p>@Ravenlot: And besides, Itachi had already informed Kakashi that a non-Uchiha sharingan user has no chance of breaking Tsukuyomi with his borrowed sharingan anyway. So obviously, Kakashi isn't going to use his MS to break Tsukuyomi, because he already knows that as a Hatake, his borrowed sharingan isn't going to do the trick. </p>