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ALL POSTSTsukuyomi...unbreakable?
<p>Some guy created a theory about Tsukuyomi being unbreakable. Here it is:
</p><p>Itachi was unmistakably a genjutsu master, but how good was he, really? Let's go back to the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. Sasuke notices a pattern and says this about Itachi: "The exact same words as before, as well as crows, starting out with your favorite genjutsu farce, eh."
</p><p>The pattern Sasuke notices is that Itachi has a habit, when Itachi says "Sasuke, you've gotten stronger", Sasuke is in a genjutsu. So what's the point of me saying this? It's what Itachi says after he blocked Kirin with Susanoo: "You really have gotten stronger Sasuke." What I'm getting at is Sasuke was still in genjutsu, when Susanoo blocked Kirin.
</p><p>Tobi said that Itachi planned out the contingencies for his fight with Sasuke, but how would he be able to make sure Sasuke did what he wanted? The answer is hypnotic genjutsu. You might be thinking that's impossible, because Sasuke broke out of his strongest genjutsu, Tsukuyomi, but did Sasuke really break it? It's true that Itachi said Tsukuyomi could be broken by the sharingan, but you should keep 2 things in mind: if Tsukuyomi actually couldn't be broken by 3 Tomoe would Itachi actually tell Kakashi that? Itachi wanted to make it believable that he was killed by Sasuke, if Tsukuyomi couldn't be broken by Sasuke, that would cast doubt on Sasuke's ability to beat him. The second thing to keep in mind is Itachi is a liar, as I mentioned above Itachi had reason to lie.
</p><p>Discuss.
</p>
(Edited by BrainBrand)
<p>I still don't understand the premise of this theroy.
</p><p>Why does OP think Sasuke was still under Genjutsu?
</p><p>Why does OP think Tsukuyomi operates differently than Tsukuyomi was stated and shown to operate?
</p><p>Why is OP comparing it to Koto when they both work fundamentally differently and have been stated and shown to be different?
</p><p>Why would Itachi keep Sasuke under a chakra-taxing jutsu for a long amount of time to make Sasuke try to kill Itachi, when that was Sasuke's goal in the first place?
</p><p>EDIT: lowkey I didn't read @Legion's most recent post, which asks many of the same questions I just did. But yeah I'd like o know the answers
</p>
(Edited by Squinty97)
We'll have to wait on the OP for that.
(Edited by JamesSenpai)
<p>First of all i disagree with that theory, some points make sense, but the conclusion...nah.
</p><p>Secondly (saying the sasuke breaking out of tsukuyomi part wasnt genjutsu) we all saw sasuke broke out of tsukuyomi,and didnt it occur to you that was this even a full powered tsukuyomi?
Given that itachi didnt want to kill sasuke and that he was sick and at near death state, the tsukuyomi he used on sasuke was weak and no sort of time manipulation was shown as compared to the tsukuyommi Itachi used on Kakashi, where he manipulated hours into seconds, also he used tsukuyomi on kid Sasuke, where sasuke was forced to see his parents death hundreds of times over and over (another hint of time manipulation).That genjutsu also seemed like a regular one, forcing your opponent to see otherwise,it was not obvious as tsukuyomi is whereas the enviroment becomes totally different. And even if he did use a full power tsukuyomi then sasuke would be lying flat on the ground for a week and rip itachi's plan. I hope you understand from the very complicated explanation. ^/_\^
</p>
(Edited by Jason of the Mangekyou)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>AsianReaper wrote:
I still don't understand the premise of this theroy.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I'm with you on that one. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: didnt it occur to you that was this even a full powered tsukuyomi? </p> </i></div>
<p>It was a full-power tsukuyome, since there was never any indication that he can control the level of power of Tsukuyome. He can control the world the victim is in and shape it according to his desire. Both in terms of space and time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: No sort of time manipulation was shown </p> </i></div>
<p>Kakashi experienced 3 days of torture in a second. Sasuke broke it within a minute (in Tsukuyome). Going by similar time compressions, that means Sasuke broke it within a fraction of real-time. You wouldn't notice any time manipulation at those speeds. So no, Sasuke broke it fair and square. </p>
<p>I'm with you on that one. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: didnt it occur to you that was this even a full powered tsukuyomi? </p> </i></div>
<p>It was a full-power tsukuyome, since there was never any indication that he can control the level of power of Tsukuyome. He can control the world the victim is in and shape it according to his desire. Both in terms of space and time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: No sort of time manipulation was shown </p> </i></div>
<p>Kakashi experienced 3 days of torture in a second. Sasuke broke it within a minute (in Tsukuyome). Going by similar time compressions, that means Sasuke broke it within a fraction of real-time. You wouldn't notice any time manipulation at those speeds. So no, Sasuke broke it fair and square. </p>
(Edited by Thekillman)
<p>@The Killman
I'm sure you're gonna say that this isn't cannon, but itachi did show time manipulation in the novel against izumi 70 plus years in a pico second,that novel was approved by the manga artist and obito in the manga stated <i>itachi killed his gf</i> and that's what happened in the novel unlike in the anime. o yea time manipulation is there.
</p><p>You kinda missed what i was actually trying to say, itachi used tsukuyomi on kid sasuke, he could'nt repel it (for obvious reasons) then he tried to use it again against teen sasuke with 3 tomoe Sharingan, nothing hints that Sasuke was even capable of breaking out of it, so why would itachi used tsukuyomi on sasuke without such knowledge? that was also his last lap, is itachi dumb enough to use such a tech against sasuke knowing the effects it has on the opponent, the effects im referring to is being hospitalized for a week..then after sasuke collapses itachi would die and orochimaru wont be sealed and yeah ;_;
And again, compared to the two tsukuyomi we saw, tthe one ita used on sasuke seemed pretty cheap, like basic genjutsu \'-'/ .
</p>
(Edited by Jason of the Mangekyou)
Obito didnt say anything about a lover in the manga. And Itachi didnt use a time intensive Tsukuyomi.
(Edited by LegionZero)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:
</p>
I'm sure you're gonna say that this isn't cannon, but itachi did show time manipulation</i></div>
<p>I did say he can use time manipulation. I'm saying he can't control the power level of tsukuyome. there's no such thing as a "weak" tsukuyome, since in it's basis it's a genjutsu that pulls it's victim into a genjutsu world that the caster has full control over. Whether Itachi uses it to make a single copy of Sasuke have his eyes gouged out or whether he uses it on 100 Kakashi copies to torture them doesn't matter, because in both cases he's doing the exact same thing. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: that was also his last lap, is itachi dumb enough to use such a tech against sasuke knowing the effects it has on the opponent, the effects im referring to is being hospitalized for a week </p> </i></div>
<p>The whole point of the fight was to test whether Sasuke had gotten strong enough. If he hadn't resisted tsukuyome, then he would've just done the same as the previous times, namely taunted him for being weak and then leaving. Itachi fought him previously when capturing Naruto, doing the same kind of moves (e.g. Tsukuyome, easily defeating his attacks) </p>
<p>I did say he can use time manipulation. I'm saying he can't control the power level of tsukuyome. there's no such thing as a "weak" tsukuyome, since in it's basis it's a genjutsu that pulls it's victim into a genjutsu world that the caster has full control over. Whether Itachi uses it to make a single copy of Sasuke have his eyes gouged out or whether he uses it on 100 Kakashi copies to torture them doesn't matter, because in both cases he's doing the exact same thing. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: that was also his last lap, is itachi dumb enough to use such a tech against sasuke knowing the effects it has on the opponent, the effects im referring to is being hospitalized for a week </p> </i></div>
<p>The whole point of the fight was to test whether Sasuke had gotten strong enough. If he hadn't resisted tsukuyome, then he would've just done the same as the previous times, namely taunted him for being weak and then leaving. Itachi fought him previously when capturing Naruto, doing the same kind of moves (e.g. Tsukuyome, easily defeating his attacks) </p>
(Edited by Thekillman)
Typical Itachi Fans
(Edited by BigVibber)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>BigVibber wrote:
Typical Itachi Fans
</p>
</i></div>
<p>? </p>
<p>? </p>
(Edited by Squinty97)
What I mean is that some of them are changing the basis of this storyline just to make it seem like he is stronger than he should be. The only explanation for this theory is itachi being able to break the fourth wall or something
(Edited by BigVibber)