<p>@FlatZone </p><p>I'm curious to hear how you think the fight will go. Would you give a rundown? Being a new year and all, won't you make an exception for old times sake? </p>

<p>If I have to make something up, then sure. Itachi will end up sealing Kimi and Konan early on, he's not stupid and knows they are Edo Tensei. Then its down to Itachi vs Oro, Oro would try to poison Itachi with a snake bite, and avoid his eyes which did not work last time, but he will try anyway. Oro spits out his sword, and slashes Itachi only to find its a bomb clone, and he gets injured, he heals himself at the cost of chakra by shedding his skin, he shoots a snake arm at Itachi, it turns out to be a crow clone and the real Itachi was in the distance behind it, he lands eye contact with Oro putting him in the shackling stakes genjutsu, Oro is stronger now, so he breaks the genjutsu in a shorter time than before just barely managing to keep his head from getting lopped off. Itachi hasn't used MS yet. Oro uses Slithering Snake mode for the maneoverablity and goes in for a physical confrontation, they clash for a few mins and Itachi being so fast evades the last strikes and jumps away only to land near an explosive tag Oro somehow set.. turns out it was another crow clone and Itachi appears and shoots Great Fireball Jutsu at Oro who summons the Rashomon gates at the last second. Realizing it will go back and forth, they each think they need to end the battle before too long, with Itachi thinking of his smaller reserves compared to Oro. Oro uses the Yamato No Jutsu, Itachi goes into Susanoo, with YM and SoT ready. Same clash as before, the difference being Oro is watching for the SoT this time, and Itachi since he is in prime has much longer to use Susanoo and his techs than last time. Oro has the Yamato heads lunge at Itachi, while the head he is on attacks with the Kusanagi, Itachi blocks all attacks from the front with YM Oro uses that disctraction to go into Hiding like Mole tech to dig under Susanoo to get closer to Itachi. He springs up to slash Itachi, but Itachi is not there.. He is outside his Susanoo which he deactivates instantly, with Amaterasu now upon Orochimaru. Orochimaru sheds his skin as fast as he can and goes underground again, lunging at Itachi again with his Kusanagi and Shadow Snake Hands, Itachi is hit but disperses into crow clones which Oro uses his many shadow snake hands to hit all at once, Itachi uses fireball no jutsu again and Oro goes underground again to avoid it. Oro comes up and uses great breakthough as fast as he can and as soon as it activates he shunshins over to Itachi, bites him and then and stabs him. Itachi makes Eye Contact with his Mangekyo activated, using Tsukuyomi. Oro has no way out and Itachi takes mortal damage, Itachi ends it by sealing Orochimaru again, or cutting off his head and burning him to ashes with Amaterasu. The stab wound and the poison eventually take effect and Itachi dies, Itachi knew Oro would kill him in a long drawn out battle due to his smaller reserves, so he elected to take Oro out even if it meant he dies afterwards. If this was the old Oro from before taking over the White Zetsu and some of Kabuto's flesh, then Itachi could have won without dying.. but this Oro should be stronger than the old Oro. </p>

<p>@Ninja of War </p><p>There is no consensus because up to now, people apparently refuse to even go back and refresh themselves on the BASICS of ninjutsu and genjutsu. </p><p>Just stop it already. The potency of ANY ninjutsu or Genjutsu is proportional to CHAKRA CONTROL AND THE AMOUNT OF MOULDED CHAKRA. It's an equation, and both contribute strongly. </p><p>Itachi has one of the lowest reserves in the manga. So when he is at THIRTY PERCENT, the bulk of his jutsu prowess is coming from his chakra control. Naruto may have weaker chakra control, but he has massive amounts of chakra available. Those two things offset each other. If Itachi is allowed more chakra, then his potency increases notably. </p><p>You used PART ONE NARUTO for your example, which doesn't make sense. Naruto at the time couldn't even make rasengan. He was put to sleep before he was even aware he was in genjutsu. He missed the window because he was too inexperienced. Fast forward 3 years later, even Itachi noticed he improved all around. He actually detected he was in genjutsu and took the STEPS to actually attempt to break it, unlike in Part one. He made it to Step 2: trying to actually break it, and he came up WAY short. </p><p>
Genjutsu Kai is a ninjutsu that requires seals, typically the tiger seal. Naruto has more reserves. He can MOULD more chakra for his Kai to compensate for his weaker chakra control. His best efforts came up way short. </p><p>I like how you called my statement head canon when it's directly from Jiraiya himself. </p><p>Itachi at 100 percent of his strength (which he is in this thread) can make a FAR more potent Ephemeral by simply moulding more chakra for the genjutsu. </p><p>Kimimaro isn't breaking out. Neither is Konan. Not even Orochimaru could break out of his 3 tomoe genjutsu. He wasn't even allowed the chance to TRY and break it in the first place because when he tried to weave his seal for Genjutsu Kai, Itachi cut his arm off before he got the chance, and Oro is a SANNIN level. Orochimaru himself was surprised that 3 tomoe genjutsu could pin him down. </p><p>
People are also ignoring Itachi's clone feinting abilities. The guy was in the middle of a shuriken clash with Sasuke. He created a kage bunshin, substituted with it, hid somewhere(probably underground) and the clone was grappling Sasuke. Sasuke didn't even see this happen at all. We know the bunshin was created during the shuriken clash because Itachi can't weave seals while simultaneously grappling Sasuke. The real Itachi jumped up from behind both of them and threw kunai. Sasuke then threw his shuriken at the wrong Itachi and was clearly surprised to see it was a clone and not the real one, proving he didn't see this substitution at all despite watching Itachi the whole time lmao. </p><p>In part one, Itachi did the same thing, Despite 3 S rank ninjas watching him, he created a bunshin, substituted, and got behind Kakashi in the blink of an eye, a feat Kurenai credited as superhuman. </p><p>In the Kabuto fight, again same thing, The real Itachi was seen deactivating Susano'o and running towards kabuto. Yet both EMS Sasuke and Kabuto were surprised to see that Itachi essentially substituted with a crow clone without either of them noticing and got behind Kabuto. </p><p>Based on all three of these feats, Itachi CLEARLY can spawn clones where he wants and substitute with them and NO ONE he has fought in the canon has noticed it, even sharingan users and Sage mode users. His clone feints are essentially undetectable. He can make his clones appear from behind or in front of himself within a certain range. </p><p>His superior hand seal speed and tactics are too much for these guys to handle. </p><p>It's 3 opponents, all he has to do is create 3 1v1s. Pretty simple. </p><p>Bijuu Dama sized Yakasa beads create the smokescreen like I said. Itachi prepares Totsuka and also does his clone feint trick and makes the clone appear behind all of them. Totsuka takes out Orochimaru, smoke screen clears and crow clone snipes Kimimaro from behind with amaterasu. Then Konan gets put in ephemeral where she is put to sleep, forcing her to release her paper form. Totsuka is not even needed for her. </p>

<p>@Combat. Yes. Itachi is absolutely superior in terms of eye prowess. In terms of feinting (with clones and substitutes), perhaps exactly not superior. Definitely strong, but with oro and the two edos, that no matter how you look at it (in my rundowns) itachi HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO SEAL YET, there are just so many more ways for oro to feint or substitute with edos. </p><p>Moving on to scenario. Oro can use wood release with explosive tags under the wood to wreath around at least a part of the Susannoo by sending out snakes as feelers. Kimi can recalcitrate the wood and ensure it’s not shaken off as easily. Knowing itachi, he will have set up a feint, most likely with sha no sho. </p><p>Now it’s konan’s turn. She releases paper shuriken as an offensive, but itachi will easily stop these. It really is a flimsy attack. However, it was not aimed at itachi. Rather, it was aimed in proximity to oro’s “Yamato no jutsu” to get the explosive tags to go boom. </p><p>It is essential, in order to win, to maintain smokescreens to negate chances of ms genjutsu from occurring, because the ms can see, but then its “blindspot” is that if one makes clones, the ms user cannot determine whichever is the real one to cast genjustu on and thus cancel theirs justus with. </p><p>At this point. Itachi is maintaining susanoo as well as try to end oro with using tsukiyomi to then seal him and the edos because itachi knows oro will be able to escape Amaterasu even if it uses up some chakra to do so. </p><p>And so he will look to end the fight as quickly as possible, but even if he seals the edos (which he only ends up sealing Kimi -I’ll explain later) he cannot seal oro because new era oro has counters and itachi knows this. </p><p>But oro can prolong the fight and this is in his best interests. Don’t try and argue with me on itachi’s chakra measures, because against the combined chakra of both edos (who can recover chakra) and oro, ITACHI HAS LESS. </p><p>So itachi is stuck in smokescreens that oro generates, and Kimi is raring to go... </p>

• • • MORE PARTS COMING ***

<p>Do not give feats that have not done. Oro has never used Wood Release. Only Yamato, Hashirama himself, Danzo with a Hashi face on his arm, Madara with a Hashi face on his chest, and Obito with hashi clone parts as half of his body have actually been able to use Wood Release. Oro has not used it, or stated anywhere to be able to use any Wood Release techs. Same way Naruto and Sasuke have not been shown using Wood Release and therefor cannot use it in the vs battles. </p>

<p>@Flat please check the wiki. I recall seeing it on his page. Also LMAO you yourself write that oro used "Yamato no jutsu" in your rundown. Please check your own statements for any hypocrisy before writing something that critiques another. That undermines your credibility as a discusser. Also, you forget that oro HIMSELF "engineered" Yamato's cells so he could use wood release, and later grafted himself as well. Plus, this is new era oro, so he he has the time to do that and duplicate wood release. </p>

<p>BEEP! wrong. Try again. Yamata No Orochi Jutsu or whatever its called he can use himself. </p>

<p>First of all I doubt Orochimaru would summon kimimaro being he has the ability to use dead bone pulse and he would also never summon konan, this fight is complete bologna being that itachi would have trouble fighting those two alone (kimimaru and konan). Who ever made this is obvously a itach rider and thinks that itachi is way stronger than he actually is, yes itachi would have a high chance of beating orochimaru on one on one, but he wouldn't stand a chance against the three of them... </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>Idk what you want to prove here. You are running with a misinterpreted version of what I posted. </p><p>Claiming "Itachi has one of the lowest reserves of chakra in the manga" is quite a bold statement, hope for your sake you can back it up. I clearly said Beginning part 2 Naruto in my example, so why are you making things up now? Btw when was Naruto put in genjutsu by Itachi in part 1?? </p><p>Proof on claimed Jiraiya statement? Control is more important than amount of chakra for genjutsu, which is what I said before, why do I say so? Since Obito used his MS to control full Kurama. I don't know why you want to go further with strawman here. </p><p>I like how you think that your assumptions trump what actually is known to be true. </p><p>Did you just call Asuma and Kurenai S-rank? Lol, now look who is exaggerating. Why do you have to do that to make Itachi look better? We all know how powerful he is. </p><p>Also, you claimed Itachi has very low chakra reserves, yet you say he can use multiple crow clones, genjutsu and even Amaterasu while still maintaining Susanoo. The two cannot coexist, he either has the reserves or doesn't. From what we have seen, even on his suicide fight with Sasuke, he didn't use any of that. So I'd say the former. </p><p>I don't know why you want to pick a fight with me now all of a sudden, but I do welcome the challenge. I have enjoyed debating with you in the past, however if you continue in this fashion, I don't think I will continue. </p>

<p>@Ninja of War </p><p>No, it's because you are now ignoring BASICS of genjutsu and ninjutsu and you are the one ignoring arguments which is why I got annoyed. I clearly stated from the beginning, Itachi's THIRTY PERCENT usage of Ephemeral entrapping naruto is a feat because at 100 percent he makes his genjutsu more viable/potent. You are FACTUALLY wrong. You cited Kabuto entrapping a part one naruto when we all now he IMPROVED by early part 2, and Itachi with just 30 percent available still easily kept him in ephemeral. </p><p>No, just because he has low stamina ( visibly Tired after a few short battles in Konoha) doesn't mean his stamina is as low as you are claiming. He used three crow clones, multiple amaterasu, tsykuyomi, a few genjutsu, a couple of large katons, and then susano'o before dying. </p><p>
</p><p>
Genjutus KAi? All NINJUTSU and GENJUTSU require you to FIRST mould chakra then manipulate. Even Jiraiya says that genjutsu itself is a type of ninjutsu. Even rasengan works on the same principle. Genjutsu :release requires you to mould chakra and then manipulate said chakra to forcibly bring your body's chakra flow to a stop against the will of the enemy. It's a simple technique. Mould chakra, then control it to stop the malicious flow of chakra in your body. Moulding more chakra increases the power of the genjutsu release. even if part 2 naruto can only properly manipulate 30 percent of his chakra, that's still ALOT with uzumaki reserves. Itachi has less chakra to work with because he is only at 30 percent. Reread Chapters 90-92, you clearly need to refresh yourself. </p><p>Ebisu clearly stated that even with naruto's poor chakra control, he quickly made progress with water walking. Then in Chapter 92, Jiraiya clearly stated that naruto's MASSIVE stamina allows him to get away with his poor chakra control. He is wasteful and not able to manipulate all his chakra properly, but because he can mould so much (especially when you add in NINE TAILS) he can still make powerful/effective jutsu without issue. </p><p>Proof? When naruto was able to tap into the nine tails chakra and MOULD MORE CHAKRA for his summoning, he went from summoning a tadpole to summoning GAMABUNTA of all things. His chakra control didn't improve, but moulding more chakra increased the potency of his technique. Naruto always naturally Moulded MORE chakra than he needs in the first place, and yet with his best efforts he STILL couldn't break a genjutsu from a watered down Itachi. </p><p>Do you also seriously think SM hashi can make a construct as large as Shinsuusenju just because of his chakra control? It's also equally because of his insane reserves. </p><p>What you said about Obito is something you made up. First of all, sharingan incredibly boosts the efficiency of genjutsu. Second of all, Obito himself has HASHIRAMA CELLS which were shown to incredibly boost one's reserves. He easily has the chakra amount, chakra control, plus the support of the Sharingan to achieve that feat. Obito was trained by Madara, he obviously has genjutsu prowess. Madara's Genjutsu was enough to Easily one shot Raikage A4. </p><p>Strawman argument. Asuma could compete with Kisame (explicitly listed as an S rank) in close quarters and Kurenai's genjutsu was good enough to be complemented by Itachi even though he easily broke it. They are top jounin. Weaker than Kakashi and Guy, but still strong. </p><p>This goes for you @Faito as well. Your scenario ignores Itachi's speed advantage. Again, in the instant Kakashi took to blink. Itachi did 4 actions: shurikens, water style tendril jutsu, Shadow clone jutsu, SUBSTITUTION jutsu.Itachi's jutsu execution is not the only problem. It's the INTELLIGENCE behind it. He purposely forced kakashi to create distance and then spawned the clone behind him and substituted, leaving an exploding clone right next to kurenai. Itachi is now a safe distance away from his own nuke, and while Kakashi correctly deduced which one was the real Itachi AFTER the fact, he didn't have a choice. He had to quickly move to save Kurenai who was walking right into a trap. IF Itachi wanted to, he could have had the clone chase after the retreating Itachi and kurenai, grab them DBZ Chiaotzu STYLE, and blow them to the moon. </p><p>
</p><p>Susano'o is fast enough to react to lightning. Totsuka blade is fast enough to blitz both Nagato and Oro without a mental reaction, no matter how hard people downplay. Orochimaru couldn't see the blade. He was genuinely surprised and confused when the blade pierced through him. Itachi also doesn't RELY on speed. He takes advantage of diversions. Yakasa beads were enough to stun SM kabuto enough for him to get tagged by Sasuke's arrow, despite the fact Kabuto showed the ability to casually dodge it before. </p><p>Itachi won't be camping in susano'o the way you set it up. Smokescreens allow his clone feinting to happen even EASIER. He doesn't need smokescreens to clone feint in the first place. All the people he clone feinted in the manga were looking right at him. Even Kakashi has to rely on LOS blockers. Itachi is clearly on par with Hashirama in clone feinting, the same dude who clone feinted Madara, a sensor type, in the middle of a kenjutsu clash. Itachi EASILY gets behind Konan and Kimimaro with a crow clone without them noticing, can't downplay feats. Amaterasu incapacitates Kimi easily and he won't be reacting to a blindside attack, because Itachi would time it for when Kimiaro bends down to summon his bracken dance. So now there is zero chance to dodge. Konan's papers are then destroyed by Itachi's katon, the crow clone stuns her by exploding into crows, and then you can pick the finisher of your choice. This fight literally ends before it begins. And he is only used 3 MS techniques and a cheaper crow clone, well within his stamina range. </p><p>Itachi doesn't need susano'o active constantly. Not his style. He isn't Sasuke. He relies on subterfuge and speed and uses his hax to end the fight, he doesn't spam. Like I said. Yakasa beads box Orochimaru in, stun him, and blind him. He isn't reacting to Totsuka in that condition. Konan's papers aren't doing jack to Susano'o in the meantime, then Itachi can simply deactivate it as orochimaru is sealed away. Totsuka, even if we ignore the fact that it lacks a physical form as per the request of the OP, it still pierced through Nagato, someone durable enough to easily tank a V2 lariat from Bee, who easily overpowered V2 Raikage while in BASE. It also pierced through Kimimaro's SM enhanced bones, which are known for it's insane durability. Totsuka would more than likely go straight through Orochimaru's rashomon gates, assuming he even had the time to create one in the first place. </p><p>Itachi literally can summon yakasa beads, fire totsuka, substitute with clone, all in the time it takes for Orochimaru, Konan and Kimimaro to do one major action. That is the difference in speed. They don't have enough experience against someone with unprecedented genjutsu abilites, unprecedented clone feinting speed, unprecedented jutsu execution speed, incredible combat intellect, and with an ultimate offense and defense to boot. Konan and Kimimaro literally can't harm him. And Orochimaru already bit the dust to a Totsuka blade that was fired without any diversionary tactics. </p>