<p>@Combat </p><p>Sigh. </p><p>Not ignoring anything. Reread what I posted before you make baseless accusations. As I said before, you are running with your own version of what I stated. Using strawman arguments to seem right. I don't expect it from you, since you have made well thought out arguments before, so it's disappointing to see it now. </p><p>I'm factually wrong?? In what exactly?? The fact that chakra control is more important than amount of chakra for genjutsu? How is that wrong? Kabuto's Nirvana technique is more impressive since it can capture so many targets and put them to sleep, not because it was used against rookie Naruto lol. Geez, you really just wanna argue. </p><p>I see what the problem is now, we are not on the same page. You are arguing with yourself basically, as you are misinterpreting what I'm saying. </p><p>So, no point in going further since you are confused. </p>

<p>@flat Boi lmaooooooo u literally write “oro uses Yamato no jutsu” don’t try and edit your reply and then lie boi who do u think ur fooling lmaooooo </p>

<p>I'm pretty sure Itachi can win this fight. But before I say why I believe he could win, I'm going to point out a few things. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja of War Wrote: Claiming "Itachi has one of the lowest reserves of chakra in the manga" is quite a bold statement, hope for your sake you can back it up. </p> </i></div>
<p>Itachi definitely has one of the worst reserves in the series that I've seen. That's one of his weaknesses. Just three Mangekyo usages can be tiring for him as shown when he required rest and his Sharingan deactivated. He was also said to be below average in reserves. Even though those things are shown and said, his best showing against Sasuke shows what he is capable of. On the verge of death he was able to use multiple Chakra taxing techniques. Doesn't mean his reserves aren't low, it just means he can do all that while on the verge of death. But someone with average reserves with his skills and abilities would of been able to do more. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQMatters Wrote: Asuma could compete with Kisame (explicitly listed as an S rank) in close quarters and Kurenai's genjutsu was good enough to be complemented by Itachi even though he easily broke it. </p> </i></div>
<p>Just because someone recieved a compliment and competed in a short physical fight and lived, doesn't mean they are S Class. I do agree that Asuma is S Class from his showing against Hidan and Kakuzu, but not from his showing against Kisame and Itachi. Kurenai is most definitely not S Class. Her physical capabilities haven't shown it. Her techniques haven't shown it. Nothing she has shown has proven to be valid enough to say she is S Class. She has one area of expertise and when it came to an S Class Genjutsu user like Itachi, he showed that her skills were like that of an infant compared to his. Even going as far as doing the whole "What you can do, I can do better" show boat. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQMatters Wrote: Itachi's THIRTY PERCENT usage of Ephemeral entrapping naruto is a feat because at 100 percent he makes his genjutsu more viable/potent. </p> </i></div>
<p>I also disagree with this. What proof is there that his techniques were weaker just because his reserves were thirty percent? Just because his reserves were lower doesn't mean his techniques were thirty percent weaker, LoL. </p><p>Now that's out of the way. Here is why I think Itachi can win. Although Konan is a pretty intelligent Shinobi, I don't see her having the capability of harming Itachi in any way, so at best she would serve as a distraction. Kimimaro is a pretty tough Shinobi, but he's a close range fighter which is something that has disadvanage against Genjutsu users or even someone like the likes of Itachi (at any time he can form a clone without one noticing that can explode). Finally Orochimaru. So far Itachi is two for two in beating Orochimaru without effort. I don't think Orochimaru is weak in any regard. But for some reason, Itachi is his weakness. Itachi always makes Orochimaru seem like a Genin. Itachi just always outsmarts him. Orochimaru is not the type of person to give up easily, but after one single battle against Itachi, he gave up on his eyes. That says a lot. Don't get me wrong, these three are dope shinobi. But do they even compliment each other? Does their abilities work well together? Can't Orochimaru already do what Kimimaro does? What benefit does Konan provide? The only thing they have is partners to break em out of Genjutsu. Even then, Itachi might have planned that and created clones beforehand to prevent that from happening. What I do know is Edo's will need to be sealed by his Totsuka Blade which is the best thing they got going. I also know Itachi will not waste a single Mangekyo usage because he's limited on how many times he can use it. So I doubt he would use it recklessly. </p><p>I do think there's a chance they can win due to Itachi's limitations, but I also think there's a chance that Itachi can as well since he has shown the capability to formulate a strategy to trick even intelligent people such as Kabuto into doing what he wants. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>@Ultima </p><p>Yeah, Itachi using genjutsu on Naruto back then is not as impressive as many make it out to be. Kabuto's temple of Nirvana is more impressive, yet it doesn't get the same treatment. @Combat </p><p>Genjutsu is all about chakra control. Doesn't matter how much chakra you have, if your chakra is disturbed by genjutsu, you need to "reset" it. That version of Naruto not being able to do it, doesn't make Itachi legendary. </p> </i></div>
<p>@Ninja of War </p><p>Okay, look, I apologize that I lost my cool. </p><p>I'll start from the top and I have quoted your origninal statement, and why I believe it's flawed. </p><p>You said that Temple of Nirvana is more impressive. I disagree. He caught fodders (a large amount, but I already proved Itachi easily replicates that feat because in the Viz translation of Chapter 540, Shikaku and Ao INSTINCTIVELY thought Itachi was controlling a large part of the alliance just based on their experiences). Kabuto's Nirvana genjutsu is literal trash compared to Itachi, whose genjutsu CANNOT BE DETECTED BY SENSORS!!!. Karin isn't sensing his genjutsu. Tobirama isn't. Minato isn't. Name any sensor you know. None of them are outdoing Ao+ the entire sensor division. When Itachi uses genjutsu, sharingan users struggle. The second Hebi Sasuke entered the uchiha hideout and made eye contact, he was already in genjutsu. And guess what. Itachi had to TELL HIM AND RELEASE the genjutsu FOR HIM. There is a reason why Obito clearly stated Sasuke didn't see through a single one of Itachi's illusions, and that includes Tsykuyomi. There is no reason to believe that 100 percent ephemeral wouldn't replicate and outdo Temple of Nirvana </p><p>Killer Bee, a Perfect Jin, had to be TOLD by Itachi that he was in genjutsu. Itachi made it obvious when he intentionally made the illusionary itachi turn into crows. That was a very subtle genjutsu. All he did was manipulate Bee's sense of sight and touch very so slightly to confuse him about where the real ITachi actually was after landing on the ground and tricked him into grabbing a faux Itachi. Killer Bee released his tentacle for real, as we see it even after Gyuki breaks him out and there is a HOLE in the ground. Yet Gyuki was only able to release Bee after Itachi told them BOTH that Bee was in genjutsu, and they still barely made it in time to block shurikens. If Itachi had killer intent, he wouldn't have even gave Bee the obvious hints. Bee was a sitting duck and literally lost to Itachi on the first move. Gyuki is literally experienced with genjutsu yet he could not detect that his host was under genjutsu lmao... </p><p>Itachi vs Deidara and Oro also speak for themselves. Kabuto's genjutsu isn't impressive at all compared to Itachi, and that is on all accounts, until Kabuto gains SM. </p><p>Kabuto's Nirvana was immediately sensed by all the competent shinobi involved. Part one naruto wasn't at all competent as he wasn't able to attempt genjutsu Kai in the first place. What proof is there that he even knew how to break genjutsu back then? Based on the information I know of, He only was taught how to break genjutsu during the timeskip. </p><p>Shikamaru casually broke out. Sakura broke out. Guy broke out. Kakashi broke out without his sharingan active. He caught part one naruto who is <<<<<< Early shippuden naruto in both experience and chakra control. </p><p>Your second statement is unsupported by the manga. Genjutsu dissipation requires a a hand seal to be used, and all hand seals are used to manipulate chakra AFTER it is moulded. It's ninjutsu, not taijutsu, so No getting around it. Jiraiya clearly stated that Naruto must BREAK Itachi's control and disturb his chakra flow in order to bring it to a stop. We clearly see that partner method is based on the same principle. In part one, Sakura had to weave signs, mould chakra for genjutsu kai, manipulate it, then INSERT it into naruto to break him out of Nirvana by touching him. Same thing with Chiyo and Sakura in part two. Same principle with kabuto's sound genjutsu. Itachi and Sasuke used genjutsu:sharingan to insert a powerful surge of chakra into each other in order to forcibly release Kabuto's control over their chakra networks by establishing control with their own genjutsu, and brought their respective chakra flows to a stop. The more chakra you put into genjutsu Kai, and the better your chakra control, the better the chance you can release someone from genjutsu. We have seen that even perfect jinchuriki like Yagura couldn't break out because apparently their genjutsu kai wasn't good enough despite bijuu partner method. </p><p>Casting genjutsu itself is no different. Genjutsu is STATED to be a TYPE of NINJUTSU by Jiraiya himself. And Ebisu's diagram in Part One has nothing to indicate that the mechanics of casting ninjutsu and genjtusu are different. Genjutsu requires incredible chakra control to be used yes, because mastering yin release is incredibly difficult but you need the raw materials to be able to use genjutsu in the first place. Tsunade is a medic with expert chakra control yet she can't use genjutsu. Jiraiya can't use genjutsu either despite his incredible chakra control. By your logic no one can break Itachi's genjutsu at all unless they themselves have the chakra control to be a genjutsu type because he clearly has superior chakra control to the people who can't make genjutsu by virtue of being able to make a genjutsu in the first place. That obviously isn't how it works. </p><p>Breaking genjutsu is a battle of your chakra control for genjutsu Kai+ amount of chakra moulded for it vs the Yin release chakra control of Itachi plus the amount of chakra he moulded for the genjutsu. It's a lot more complex than you seem to be saying it is. Naruto already showed that his massive stamina allowed him to summon gamabunta despite the fact that his chakra control was trash for complicated hand seal pattterns (with his base reserves he at best summoned a premature small frog). He literally needed kyuubi levels chakra to make up for his weak chakra control. Same idea applies here. His chakra control may not be the best, but genjutsu kai is only one handseal and he can mould plenty of chakra for it, he has uzumaki reserves. Itachi being at thirty percent means he didn't put much chakra into that version of ephemeral, but he compensated for it with his own insane chakra control in yin release. That's why it's objectively a feat, both characters had their weaknesses/handicaps yet Itachi still won the battle easily, and thus it adds to why he is legendary. Put him at 100 percent, and 90 percent of the verse isn't breaking out of ephemeral. </p><p>In order to make a half decent genjutsu, Jiraiya probably would need to mould all of his chakra reserves to make up the difference for his Yin release chakra control issue , so it isn't practical. Naruto himself mastered Henge jutsu despite general problems with chakra control. It only requires one handsign and Ebisu SHOWED us that he can perfectly manipulate the 20 percent of his chakra required for it. There are also genetic variables involved. Kakashi's chakra control is just fine and he has earth and water natures, but he isn't making mokuton anytime soon because he doesn't have the genes necessary to combine them and create the wood nature transformation. </p><p>Furthermore, I feel people generally don't appreciate just how intelligent ITachi is. In his debut, he literally planned FOUR moves ahead and near instantly grasped the situation in front of him. He weaved all his techniques and then just stood there and adjusted accordingly. If he wanted to he could have thrown the shuriken and then weave more signs while Kakashi was backing away (he is that much faster than kakashi in jutsu execution), but he chose not to. Each action he took when weaving signs in his robe had a meaning to it and was designed to optimize the success of his win condition. Shuriken as a ruse, to cover the tracks of his water style to push Kakashi on the backfoot. Itachi and Kakashi both know of each other because they spent time together in Anbu. Itachi knows about Kakashi's clone feinting. Even Choji's dad knew that Kakashi's MO is : break line of sight, clone feint, then attack from below or behind. Do you think it was a coincidence that Itachi showed no surprise at all when he stabbed Kakashi and it turned out to be a water clone? It's not. He knew what Kakashi's gameplan was and that's why he planned his clone feint in advance (clone feinting counters clone feinting), but he wasn't sure where the real kakashi would attack him from. But it didn't matter, he used his superior clone feinting skill to dispatch the faux Kakashi easily while leaving an exploding clone behind as bait for the real kakashi to attack while he was already a safe distance away. You can clearly see that Kakashi's plan was to attack Itachi's feet. You can see it on panel. Itachi could have detonated his clone right then and there, and it would have killed Kakashi and Kurenai right then and there. But he purposely waited and delayed it, because his goal wasn't to kill them, giving Kakashi the chance to correct things. </p><p>He showed that he could completely control the fight, paint himself as a villain, and even lead them to a win condition, all while jobbing at the same time. the only reason Itachi later ordered Kisame to kill them is because Kakashi released intel that was dangerous to Akatsuki at the time, and Itachi couldn't just ignore that in front of Kisame. He wasted his stamina with tsykuyomi on purpose and purposely chose not to kill Kakashi, but he still needed to incapacitate so as to not blow his cover. With his dwindling reserves, he was easily able to convince Kisame that they couldn't rush to capture naruto from Jiraiya and that they could come back later, and even with that, Kisame remained unconvinced, asking why a retreat was necessary. And in the official translation, Itachi hyped up Jiraiya to be able to defeat the entire Akatsuki, when in reality both him and Kisame could solo one v one. Itachi accomplished his mission that day. Warned konoha that akatsuki was making it's move, reminded Sasuke to get stronger, and purposely failed Nagato's orders to capture to the kyuubi, while having a pact with Obito that prevented Pain from going to konoha himself. IF Itachi brought Pain with him to Konoha, what would have happened???? lmao. </p><p>Itachi made excuses for why they couldn't capture the nine tails ahead of time and just keep him captured until he was ready to be sealed, and he had Obito focus on the other bijuu in the meantime until the clock ran out. Understanding the backstory of Itachi's actions allows us to better understand just how good he is, and why we haven't seen his full potential in battle yet, which is why there is a disconnect in this thread. </p><p>Even Kakashi stated that what Itachi showed there was nothing LMAO, and that was without knowledge on ANY of his MS techniques (Kakashi clearly only knew about MS genjutsu in general, if he actually knew about Tsykuyomi then he would have already known that looking in Itachi's eyes is a big no- no). He was basing it on what Itachi showed during their time as Anbu. So basically, a jobbing Itachi can perfectly plan 4 moves in advance? Yikes. It was even stated during the Sasuke fight that he calculated for all of Sasuke's contingencies all in a fight where he was holding back and dying of a terminal illness. </p><p>Yet, in this thread we have people citing drawbacks from 30 percent Itachi. Itachi was nerfed in that fight in so many ways. No mega handseal speed. No calculated uses of ninjutsu/shuriken feints. No clone feints. Even Kakashi said SOMETHING WASN'T RIGHT. </p><p>In all his other fights, Itachi showed the ability to make and execute strategies to end the fight from the beginning. Kimimaro is nowhere near that level. Orochimaru is experienced but he isn't a genius in battle, his genius is in scientific research. Konan is probably the best intellectual combat tactician in the group, but no offense she doesn't even touch Itachi in intellect. She opted for a sucicide attack against Tobi when a paper clone could have been used instead. Also put all her eggs in one basket with the 600 billion paper bombs. And her arsenal is essentially useless against Itachi's katon variants. IF Obito wasn't being stupid he would have used his katon to get rid of her papers like Jiraiya did instead of underestimating her. </p><p>@JamesSenpai </p><p>MEGA FACE PAlM -_-. CHAPTER 90. Ebisu CLEARLY tells you that genjutsu and ninjutsu are increased by the AMOUNT of chakra put in. It's clearly shown in the diagram. The more chakra moulded, and the more chakra succesfully MANIPULATED by handsigns, the BIGGER THE EXPENDITURE. No offense, but I'm getting really sick and tired of explaining this. Itachi also clearly explained that his 30 percent clone is limited in STRENGTH AND in the jutsu he could use in Chapter 260 pg 16. He couldn't even use any MS techniques at all, not enough chakra available to even make the minimum benchmark for creating them in the first place. Furthermore, it's clearly stated that naruto can keep up with sasuke and sakura because his insane STAMINA allows him to make potent techniques. He sucked at the basic clone jutsu, yet he can spam more shadow clones then kakashi as a kid. His chakra control issue was mostly in handsigns, as he even quickly picked up on the water walking exercise. Kage bunshin is a harder clone technique than basic clones but he has an easier time doing it because it only requires one handseal. Naruto in base has more chakra than Jiraiya yet because of his poor control with handsigns he couldn't summon a big frog. Adding in kyuubi chakra compensated for his chakra control well enough to the point he could summon gamabunta. Yet that same Jiraiya who has way less chakra than naruto+kyuubi can summon gamabunta with ease. Chakra control AND chakra reserves BOTH factor into genjutsu/ninjutsu, end of story. Itachi is at thirty percent and thus ephemeral is weaker because he can't mould more chakra for it. Even with that handicap, he was shown to be simultaneously fighting Kakashi while keeping Naruto in ephemeral, and Chiyo and Sakura HAD to step in to break naruto free. </p><p>But I commend you on a well thought analysis of how Itachi matches up with these three opponents and your comments on his stamina. The reason he matched Sasuke in stamina is because he used his techniques more intelligently and paced himself. Sasuke literally burnt himself out and didn't get anything done, and basically relied on Kirin to bail him out. </p><p>Itachi knows all about partner method, and some users seem to think that he doesn't have ways around it. He does. His shuriken techniques were calculated to be unavoidable by Kabuto because of his skillful use of blindspots. </p><p>His clone feints are also unavoidable for these 3 oppponets. Itachi created and substituted with a clone during a shuriken clash and then reappeared, jumped, and safely threw 3 kunai at sasuke from a safe distance away, and Sasuke didn't notice this at all until it was already happening. Sasuke was grappling a CLONE. People just don't understand... If that was an exploding clone Sasuke was a dead man right then and there. Itachi's ability to spawn clones where he wants is a deadly tool in his arsenal, and he already shows the ability to combo his clone feints with other attacks, increasing the chance that his blindside attack will lead to the successful application of Totsuka or Amaterasu. </p><p>Tell me how EMS Sasuke and Kabuto are watching the REAL Itachi deactivating susano'o and running toward Kabuto, yet they don't notice him:making a crow clone. moving to a hiding spot.crow clone explodes, Itachi gets a free attack from behind. EMS Sasuke can track JUUBITO to an extent, but he can't see Itachi's clone formations. </p><p>No one in the manga has seen this guy's clone formations. No one supporting Team Orochimaru has explained how they deal with it. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: MEGA FACE PAlM -_-. CHAPTER 90. Ebisu CLEARLY tells you that genjutsu and ninjutsu are increased by the AMOUNT of chakra put in. </p> </i></div>
<p>And? Are you saying just cause he has less Chakra that means he's going to use less Chakra for a technique? Is there any proof of that? Do you know the Chakra cost for the Technique? So how do you know if Itachi doesn't just normally use one percent of his Chakra for it and did so here? You don't. I'm well aware that he couldn't use Chakra taxing techniques. But just because he didn't have more than thirty percent of Chakra, doesn't mean his Genjutsu was thirty percent weaker. You made the claim the technique is weaker than normal, now you have to prove it. </p>

<p>@JamesSenpai </p><p>
The point, is, it was SHOWN that the more chakra you put into a genjutsu the MORE Complex and harder to break it is. HE busted out Tsykuyomi against Kakashi, manipulated the perception of time to 72 hours per one real world second, and put him into comatose. That left itachi visibily huffing and sweating.The more complex the genjutsu, the more chakra it requires. We have seen that he can also tone it down to 24 hours and less. He used Tsykuyomi against EMS Sasuke and Kabuto without manipulating time at all. He completely controls how much chakra is put in. Chakra control is much more fixed in comparison to the ability of a ninja to simply summon more chakra. Naruto's chakra control didn't magically improve when he summoned gamabunta. He put an overwhelming amount of chakra into the summoning. </p><p>
</p><p>What you said there ignores an important detail. Ephemeral is not even the canonical name for the genjutsu he casts by using one of his ten fingers. Ephemeral is a name created by the games for the technique based on the usage against naruto. All Itachi said in the canon was that he can cast genjutsu through his fingers. At thirty percent of his original strength, he can only mould a limited amount of chakra. The diagram clearly shows you that the more CHAKRA you put in and manipulate, the stronger the technique, whether it's ninjutsu or genjutsu. </p><p>The chakra cost of the technique is DETERMINED by how much chakra Itachi decides to put in the first place. IT doesn't matter if the specific genjutsu he used against naruto only required 1 percent of his chakra ( that makes it even better), because If he is allowed 100 percent of his strength, he can OBJECTIVELY cast a more powerful genjutsu of his choice through the medium of his choice. </p><p>. </p>

<p>I have seen people use novels for feats and etc here. So we'll use Itachi Shinden, at full power with Tsukuyomi he can make 80 something years go by in a split second in even another Uchiha's brain and it kills them by shutting their brains down if they die in the Tsukuyomi. He also has chakra enhanced strikes. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai </p><p>
The point, is, it was SHOWN that the more chakra you put into a genjutsu the MORE Complex and harder to break it is. HE busted out Tsykuyomi against Kakashi, manipulated the perception of time to 72 hours per one real world second, and put him into comatose. That left itachi visibily huffing and sweating.The more complex the genjutsu, the more chakra it requires. We have seen that he can also tone it down to 24 hours and less. He used Tsykuyomi against EMS Sasuke and Kabuto without manipulating time at all. He completely controls how much chakra is put in. Chakra control is much more fixed in comparison to the ability of a ninja to simply summon more chakra. Naruto's chakra control didn't magically improve when he summoned gamabunta. He put an overwhelming amount of chakra into the summoning. </p><p>
</p><p>What you said there ignores an important detail. Ephemeral is not even the canonical name for the genjutsu he casts by using one of his ten fingers. Ephemeral is a name created by the games for the technique based on the usage against naruto. All Itachi said in the canon was that he can cast genjutsu through his fingers. At thirty percent of his original strength, he can only mould a limited amount of chakra. The diagram clearly shows you that the more CHAKRA you put in and manipulate, the stronger the technique, whether it's ninjutsu or genjutsu. </p><p>The chakra cost of the technique is DETERMINED by how much chakra Itachi decides to put in the first place. IT doesn't matter if the specific genjutsu he used against naruto only required 1 percent of his chakra ( that makes it even better), because If he is allowed 100 percent of his strength, he can OBJECTIVELY cast a more powerful genjutsu of his choice through the medium of his choice. </p><p>. </p> </i></div>
<p>Still not really relevant. So you're saying because he changes how he uses Tsukuyomi, that means the Genjutsu he used on Naruto (which wasn't Tsukuyomi) was weaker than how Itachi would of done it at a hundred percent? There's no evidence the jutsu would of been any different if Itachi was at a hundred percent. Unless you are going as far as to try to say Itachi would waste over thirty percent of Chakra on a single Genjutsu, on a single opponent, which would of been a waste of Chakra with allies there and ready to break him free from it. </p>

<p>@FlatZone </p><p>Why resort to underhanded tactics? </p><p>@Combat </p><p>I accept your apology. Yet, I still feel there is a lot of unfair tactics being used. This makes it difficult to converse with you. </p><p>Check again my post, I compare Kabuto's usage of Nirvana on multiple people and Itachi's usage of Ephemeral on rookie Naruto. The latter is seen as so impressive and a prime example of why Itachi is great with genjutsu, yet the former is not even mentioned as being impressive. There is clear discrepancy there, which is why I highlighted it. </p><p>Now you go and say I'm comparing Nirvana to Itachi's entire arsenal of genjutsu, which is so false. Also, you are making many assumptions with Itachi's genjutsu that have yet to be proven, as @James has said. One example, how do you know that Ephemeral would be stronger with more chakra? Also, give proof, not statements from characters that don't know the inner workings of Itachi's jutsu. </p><p>FYI, there are jutsu that don't become stronger with simply more chakra, e.g. shadow clone. </p><p>Secondly, how is what I said wrong or an assumption about a target needing to deal with an invading genjutsu by resetting their chakra? That's the basis of genjutsu to disturb an opponent's chakra, and for the target to reset their chakra to end the genjutsu. </p><p>Now how do you go from that to, "your logic states Itachi would capture everyone due to Itachi's superior chakra control"??? Like, wtf man? I clearly said control is more important than amount for chakra used for genjutsu. Cited example of this with Obito. But there is more to it for Uchiha obviously, due to added control from the sharingan. </p><p>Yet control isn't even the right word. The user of genjutsu adds their chakra to their opponent's chakra network and creates a disturbance like a parasite. This parasite chakra continues the disturbance which holds up the genjutsu. What do I base this on? The explanation for genjutsu given in the manga and Karin's analysis on whether she or Sasuke were under a genjutsu. </p><p>Lol, Don't think I explained it well, yet I hope you can understand me a bit better. </p><p>So Naruto was trying to reset his chakra, by overpowering it with his own chakra (he should have tried to disturb his own chakra). And obviously that's what happened in that instance, yet why is Naruto not being able to immediately reset his chakra such a big deal? And why is Itachi lauded for doing it? </p><p>My point being, that Naruto is not a good measure of strength for genjutsu. A better measure would have been if Itachi used it on Kakashi and Kakashi was to struggle. </p>

<p>Name me ONE ninjutsu or genjutsu in this manga that wasn't amplified by the users having access to more chakra... I'll wait. And make sure to control for chakra control too. If the chakra control is too bad, then it doesn't make a difference. Even in Sage Mode, Jiraiya lacks any meaningful chakra control to create yin release chakra for genjutsu at all, so no amount of chakra he puts in will make up the difference. </p><p>Pain's shinra Tensei increased in magnitude the more chakra he put in. When he moulded more chakra , he went from destroying Kakashi's earth wall and creating a small crater to nuking the ENTIRE hidden leaf village, and he put so much chakra in his life span shortened. </p><p>How is Ebisu's diagram in part one not clear? When Sakura moulded more chakra for clone technique, 3 clones appeared instead of one. When naruto makes kage bunshin, his kage bunshin are stronger than kakashi's and are easier to maintain due to the massive stamina he has. Kakashi's 5 clones are way weaker than naruto's same 5 clones. More chakra put in, the stronger or more complex or numerous the jutsu. </p><p>When Tobirama and Hashirama were revived in part one, not only could they not use any high end techniques, their water style and mokuton techniques were severly weakened. Look at Hashirama's deep forest emergence during his fights with Madara and look at Edo Madara's replication of his jutsu, then look at what he did in part one. Hashirama was so watered down that he couldn't resist the edo tensei at all, yet in part 2 when he was brought back closer to full power, he broke the control effortlessly. His Chakra control didn't change, his reserves did though. </p><p>Tsykuyomi was explicitly stated to be one of the most powerful genjutsu ever and was clearly shown to have a chakra cost that reflected that, and yet somehow Putting more chakra into genjutsu doesn't amplify the potency according to you lot. </p><p>
When kakashi got chakra from Kurama, he could casually warp objects as large as gyuki. </p><p>Naruto went from summoning a tadpole to summoning gamabunta by simply having his chakra reserves increased. His chakra control didn't change at all. His chakra control was trash, but adding more stamina solved the problem. </p><p>I have made ZERO assumptions. I referenced you guys Ebisu's diagrams, and multiple feats... The whole point of the 8 gates is that increased chakra flow/increased access to chakra increases relevant stats for the user. More chakra available> greater genjutsu and ninjutsu feats... </p><p>
Your point about naruto is incorrect. Genjutsu Kai is a battle of strength just as much as it is about chakra control, which is the whole point of ANY ninjutsu or genjutsu. He moulded his chakra and followed Jiraiya's instructions precisely. Partner method is IDENTICAL to Genjutsu Kai, clearly stated in the canon. It's just more practical to use partner method because chakra inserted from a third party doubles your chances. It's not a guarantee you will break out, as Obito clearly controlled the third mizukage for years.... </p><p>
Your claim that it matters more is unsupported. Itachi's Tsykuyomi was partially credited to his skill with genjutsu by Danzo. His MS eye is required during the chakra control step for him to channel the technique in the first place, but his skill is what allowed him to freely manipulate time. IT still required ALOT of chakra for him to make the genjutsu so potent that the miniumum requirment is sharingan + uchiha bloodline. That is the only genjutsu we have seen immediately make him gasping for breath, because every time he wants to make an illusion powerful enough to potentially render an opponent comatose, that's what it took. When he used it for simple things like showing Sasuke the truth of the massacre, it wasn't anywhere near as draining on him. </p><p>Ephemeral gets stronger with 100 percent Itachi, as per, I don't know, literally the MECHANICS of genjutsu and ninjutsu in the first place ???? </p>