<div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: @BlazeRelease </p><p>Killer beee said something along the lines of sasuke being the only person to dodge his attack besides Ayy, which is nonsense because killer bee fought minato, and minato was shown and stated to be greater than Ayy+Bee and faster than ayy+ bee. so killer bee was wanking sasuke for no apparent reason when he stated that. </p> </i></div>
<p>What we saw with Minato was him and Minato pointing blades at each other, Minato didn't dodge it, he didn't even try to dodge it. Whereas as he himself stated, A was the only one who dodged his attack, that he used with his Chakra cloak, when he was in his prime too. While Minato and they met during when he was a kid. And I feel like you're taking things differently, B never said Sasuke was fast as A, but that he was one of the only other guy who dodged this attack of his, with his chakra cloak and in his prime. While you also should pay attention to what Sasuke said after the battle, which stated that Sasuke wasn't recovered from the battle with Itachi and didn't expect a battle of this degree. </p>

Also, Idk where you got the idea that hashirama wouldn't use his big moves in a serious fight. Hashirama had a soft spot for madara. hashirama wouldn't care about ohnoki if ohnoki was trying to destroy konoha, he would wipe ohnoki out of existence. Hashirama is a nice, kind, charismatic dude. but he made it clear he would kill his own child if they tried to destroy the village.

<p>All the time Madara went against him, he held back most of his powers, Madara himself didn't expect his Sage Mode and the thousand hands, and as his rival and a guy with such extensive knowledge, he didn't know about Hashi's powers. So it means Hashi doesn't use his powers from the get go, it can be because usually he wouldn't need to go that far, or maybe since the jutsus are so wide spread and destructive, he'll probably kill his own men and every other person around him for it. He literally made the Valley of the End with it, and judging by what I remember, Hashi ordered everyone to stay out of the battle. </p>

<p>@Blazerelease </p><p>Except ayy and bee fought minato many times, and they couldn't touch him. they clearly said minato was unsurpassable for them. your second point would be accurate if killer bee didn't claim that sasuke was the strongest person he fought in a serious battle, which again is clear wank. he fought minato. and Minato would easily stomp the version of sasuke that killer bee fought. no susano'o? weakened from his fight with itachi ? it's no contest. FTG level 2 would stomp sasuke and his entire crew. </p><p>Again, the whole theme of hashirama and madara is that hashirama considered madara a friend. you yourself just stated that hashirama didn't need to go all out to defeat him in the past either. Even when he had a clear chance to kill madara, he refused to kill him and instead signed a peace treaty. I have no reason to believe hashirama considered ohnoki a friend that he would hesitate to kill if ohnoki threatened the Leaf. </p>

<p>@Combat. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I didn't know Minato and A and B clashed together more than once. Can you give a referrence to where it was mentioned. </p><p>Even if you were right on the whole clash things, Minato died about 16 years ago. B wouldn't be the same as he was 16 yeard ago, and so in his prime, the most serious battle he had would be against Sasuke. Considering he got almost burned down by the Amaterasu. It shows that in his prime, Sasuke proved to be a more dangerous and serious fighter, don't know it Minato had a more dangerous jutsu than Amaterasu(If what you said about the clashing is true) </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: @Combat. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I didn't know Minato and A and B clashed together more than once. Can you give a referrence to where it was mentioned. </p> </i></div>
<p>Dunno about B, but A told Naruto that he and Minato had clashed many times. Chapter 541 page 8. </p>

<p>Ayy and killer bee were a tag team in battle until the third raikage died and the 4th raikage became hokage. Aye then became overprotective of Bee and banned him from fighting. Ay and Bee fought minato many times during the third 3 shinobi world war. Ayy and bee fought minato many times before Ayy4 became the raikage. When Minato became hokage the war already came to an end. Minato is more dangerous than that version of sasuke lol. Killer bee nearly casually countered amaterasu. Minato can use the FTG barrier to redirect killer bee's bijuu bombs. minato has sealing techs that can potentially surpress bijuu chakra or at least lower killer's bee advantage. repeated Ftg level 2 rasengan can kill bee in his base form once killer cannot maintain bijuu mode. </p><p>Killer bee has no reason to wank sasuke like that when he essentially embarrassed sasuke and his entire crew, despite them having a 4-1 advantage, and they admitted that they needed to go at him as if they trying to kill him in order to have any chance of capturing him alive. If bee didn't want to take a vacation and leave his brother's overwatch. he comes out of the water in V2 blitzes the living hell out of tired sasuke, near dead suigetsu, and weakened juugo and karin lol. My personal theory? Kishimoto didn't flesh out killer bee's backstory properly back then. he didn't know that he would later write minato into killer bee's and ayy's backstory, or Kishimoto was simply trying to wank sasuke. take your pick. But I don't buy for a second weakened MS sasuke is a greater threat than minato. </p>

<p>So far, A was the only one who battled Minato more than once. Killer B, was never mentioned to, and even if he did, he didn't in his prime, and didn't go out as serious as he with Sasuke. </p><p>B didn't counter Amaterasu. He switched himself with a clone, which was already a BS escape by plot. </p><p>B's escape plan depended on Sasuke saving Karin, by cutting the Tentecle, that B used as a duplicate. Or the other way around. </p><p>B's whole escape also depended on Sasuke stopping the Amaterasu or not. If he didn't. B wouldn't survive. </p><p>And no, Suigetsu suggested that they should go after B trying to kill him, if they actually wanted to catch him. Which so far, Sasuke didn't say a word of. </p><p>If B could come back while faking his clone, out of the water, then he probably would still not be recovered from the burns, damage or pain of the Amaterasu. Even if he did come back, he'll be treated again with an Amaterasu which I doubt one would treat oneself to. </p><p>And the last, Sasuke in the end, admitted that he didn't expect a battle this intense, and that his recovery from the previous battle hasn't been completed. While, B, not Suigetsu, not Karin, not Jugo, not even Sasuke, but B admitted to him being the strongest person he fought so far. And I personally think Sasuke would have been able to use his Chidori sphere during both of their close combat rounds, if the mission hadn't been to capture B, not kill him. </p>

<p>@Blazerelease </p><p>Except we have already seen that even the v1 chakra cloak can block amaterasu. naruto did it to sasuke in the closing chapters of the manga. it isn't an overpowering threat. And killer bee could have easily cut off his own tentacle just like he did in the war. amaterasu can't finish him. he was definitely in pain but he still thought of a way to counter it in the heat (heh) of the moment. karin and sasuke simply did the work of removing the tentacle for him. Bloodlusted bee who doesn't want to leave the hidden cloud and get free time away from Ayy comes out of the water in v2 and lariats each taka member's head off as punishment for wasting his time... karin couldn't even sense that the real killer bee was under water. suigetsu is already unconscious. sasuke was tired. jugo was also tired. they can't win in the physical condition they were in at that point. Lol no, killer bee was already deep under water hidden in the tentacle. if sasuke didn't stop the amaterasu then the only thing that dies is killer bee's fake clone. switching himself with a clone is the definition of countering... he was not killed by the jutsu, that is all that matters. he was still in fighting condition. How exactly is that plot no jutsu? this battle is what established some of the abilities of gyuki in the first place. a special ability of his is the ability to place his host in tentacles that can be detached, giving them a second chance in battle. every bijuu gives special abilities to their jinchuriki. Killer bee was clearly joking around with them. he was even talking about how he was gonna have a nice drink of alcohol after he was finished. he shunshin'd across a mountain faster than they could blink. Sasuke literally got embarrassed. he lost in swordsmanship. he got his chest blown open. how much more clear can the writer be that he was inferior? his injuries from itachi are offset by the fact he has 3 allies, one of which is a healer, so it balances out in my opinion. it's not like sasuke was by himself. </p><p>I'm surprised that you think that version of sasuke was a greater threat than minato to bee. I also proved that killer bee and ayy fought minato many times, how is that not enough for you?If you have a counter, please state it. In this case, you can't use killer bee's statement as direct evidence because that statement is what is up on the chopping block. I'm directly challenging that claim. In some cases, feats + other statements > than one questionable statement. and It's pretty safe to say that killer bee's statement about sasuke being his greatest threat is questionable. </p><p>Also, sasuke clearly threw the mission away and agreed with suigetsu after a certain point, because he used amaterasu. he didn't know if he could extinguish the flames beforehand either. it was literally his last stand. he was just fortunate that he learned how to do it in the moment, and killer bee still countered it and could have finished him if he so desired. </p>

<p>@Combat. kurama chakra so far is special among the other tails. So, Naruto using Kurama Chakra to block Amaterasu doesn't equal to every other tailed beasts. </p><p>I doubt he was able to think of a plan while burning from the Amaterasu, he so far was saved from Sasuke saving Karin and cancelling the Amaterasu. </p><p>Bloodlusted B comes out of the water for a straight attack again, as you mentioned, and gets shots with Amaterasu, and this time, he's not gonna survive it. </p><p>Karin was unconscious, as Bee should have been. </p><p>His cunter worked out because of Sasuke's sudden actions. And It was a BS escape because The Eight Tails was still there crying and burnibg in pain in Amaterasu, so far, body replacements don't work like that. </p><p>How are you sure that he wasn't in a fight condition? He admitted that Sasuke was the strongest opponent he faced so far, and so it implies that he probably got extremely damaged, as expected from Amaterasu. </p><p>Just because someone jokes around, doesn't mean they weren't serious. Again, Killer B stated himself so. While Sasuke was obviously not going for a lethal jutsu like Chidori Sphere, since that would ridden the whole point of the battle, and Sasuke's own code on not killing anyone(Until Kage Summit) shows that he wasn't going for the kill, which would make him an idiot for obvious reasons. The Amaterasu was done purely out of no other choice, he started picturing Taka as Team Seven, and how they sacrificed themselves for him and sees that he and Taka can't escape, awakens Amaterasu. It wasn't to kill, since he stopped it mid burn. </p><p>The writer showed how clear he is by stating through Killer B, and Jugo about the battle. </p><p>Jugo who was present and very well in that battle thinks different from you, as he mentioned the injuries. It shows how Sasuke wasn't in his best condition, and even his three allies couldn't fill that gap. </p><p>Were you not paying attention to what @JAO said? A only refered to him. Only A fought against Minato more than once, while Killer B didn't and wasn't close to what he was today. </p><p>Why is it questionable? The man almost got burned down by a fire that will never be put out? He got two shots at Sasuke with the added luck of his powers not being told of, that is, the first time where he surprised Sasuke with the use of Lightning Release showing how he can also use it. And the second time with the genjutsu immunity. While Sasuke wasn't going for the kill, and wasn't recovered from his previous battle. Evidence proves statements that are already not questionable. </p><p>It was a means of Defence. It was fortunate on B's side that the Amaterasu was cancelled and that his tentecle got sliced. </p><p>Killer B probably would have been an close to out of conscious state withe The Amaterasu. </p>

<p>@Blaze </p><p>Wow, I have seen some downplays before, but seriously, when you have to go against the manga to make a point seem right, you are wrong. </p><p>Bee avoided a point blank Amaterasu. Now, you are saying he didn't and he only was able to do that thanks to Sasuke. Lol, Bee has been shown to make substitutions without Sasuke. Furthermore, Bee killed Sasuke twice before that, with his swords and with lariat. And yes countered Amaterasu at point blank range. </p><p>Hid away and escaped to learn enka. I don't know what point you are trying to make by saying that didn't happen. You are literally going against the manga, and that is not acceptable. No one would agree with you because it is simply false. Bee didn't lose, he won. </p>

<p>@BlazeRelease </p><p>Lol no, Joa20 simply said he didn't know if bee fought him. I proved that during the 3rd shinobi world war Ayy and Bee were strictly a tag team. He certainly fought minato with ayy multiple times, that's what they even showed us in the canon. Only after the third raikage died did killer bee stop fighting alongside ayy, and was trapped in the village under Ay's orders as the newly established raikage. Reread chapter 543. You didn't address the point. You are literally using headcanon now, which is a red flag that concerns me. We clearly saw killer bee state he thought of a way to counter amaterasu in the heat of the moment. Reread the chapter where see killer be remerging from the tentacle under water. Chapter 419. he clearly says so on pg 14. Orochimaru's oral rebirth is considered a substitution technique, and in my opinion he could substitute out of amaterasu as well in the right circumstances. Killer bee escaped amaterasu fair and square. </p><p>Sorry, but I have no reason to beleieve that gyuki's v1 and v2 chakra cloak can't repel amaterasu. Those chakra cloaks is literally one of the things all the jinchuriki have in common bar the shukaku jinchuriki. no reason to beleieve they don't have the same properties. V2 is countering amaterasu. Bloodlusted bee comes out, sasuke is surprised because they think the bee they are carrying is the real one. uses amaterasu in desperation. amaterasu falls off of v2 bee, sasuke is surprised and experiences mangeyko backlash. bee then lariats his head off. the end. the other taka members aren't even worth discussing. they get low diffed as well. </p><p>lol no, sasuke literally has two healers. jugo is a nice backup healer. he literally healed sasuke's chest. karin is a healer. he has 3 allies, two are healers. I don't buy for a second that the injuries he sustained from itachi suddenly outweigh all of that. Sasuke literally is fighting with 3 allies, and he still got washed. How can anyone honestly say that that version of sasuke is stronger than bee? and lol, I like how taka was dumb enough not to heal sasuke's "injuries" from his fight with itachi before going into a battle with a perfect jinchuriki, smh. So that is their fault, so this excuse doesn't work. as far as I am concerned juugo and karin healed him multiple times in that battle. </p><p>You literally selected the statements that are convenient for you and disregarded all the others and the feats shown. MS sasuke isn't the strongest bee ever fought, it's minato, period. Minato has a much better arsenal suited to taking on bee. ayy+bee couldn't beat minato, while both ayy and bee stomped sasuke solo. sasuke's strongest techniques don't work on bee. Amaterasu? countered by full bijuu subsitution, or v1/v2 cloaks. genjutsu? already countered by gyuki partner method. Killer bee already reacted to sasuke's top speed chidori sword before, the same technique he called unblockable or something, and killer bee literally embarrased him. Killer bee also can outlast that verison of sasuke without any issue because MS backlash sucks. </p><p>And lol no, he used amaterasu because it was his last stand. they tried to retreat, but bee didn't let them. he had no choice but to risk the mission and kill killer bee to have any chance of escaping alive. he only realized he could extinguish the flames afterward. He didn't want to sacrifice karin, so he then he tried to see if he could extinguish the flames. to his convenience, he learned how to do it in the moment. then he realized he could now actually capture bee alive with his newfound ability to extinguish the flames. </p>