<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Blaze </p><p>Wow, I have seen some downplays before, but seriously, when you have to go against the manga to make a point seem right, you are wrong. </p> </i></div>
<p>I wonder what I did that went agains the manga. I was simply replying to a guy that said the statement B himself made false, in the manga. </p>

Bee avoided a point blank Amaterasu. Now, you are saying he didn't and he only was able to do that thanks to Sasuke. Lol, Bee has been shown to make substitutions without Sasuke. Furthermore, Bee killed Sasuke twice before that, with his swords and with lariat. And yes countered Amaterasu at point blank range. 

<p>A avoided a point blank Amaterasu, B got hit by a point blank Amaterasu. Now, when you are accusibg me of downplaying someone, you can't up-play someone like that. He literally got hit by the Amaterasu, he escape it via substitution, a substitution that Sasuke cut him off for. If he did it himself, then obviously Taka aren't dumb enough to notice something wrong with that. </p><p>I don't know how the earlier counters helps with your point but B only countered Sasuke because Taka wasn't aware of any of his powers, the lightning release channeling through the sword, the genjutsu immunity and the substitution trick. If Taka was actually informed about everything about B by Obito, they would have caught him easier enough. </p><p>And as I've stated, he didn't counter Amaterasu. </p>

Hid away and escaped to learn enka. I don't know what point you are trying to make by saying that didn't happen. You are literally going against the manga, and that is not acceptable. No one would agree with you because it is simply false. Bee didn't lose, he won.

<p></div> Escaping from a battle while your opponents are still alive doesn't give you a victory. B himself stated that Sasuke was the strongest guy he fought, you are the one going against the manga with this. Jugo stated that Sasuke didn't recover from his earlier battle with Itachi, and so figured why Sasuke in his usual pace. Their mission was to capture B, and that alone, Sasuke didn't try to kill him. I only stated to what the manga shown, I don't need anyone to agree with that, it will still and always be like that, whether anyone agree or not. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: @BlazeRelease </p><p>Lol no, Joa20 simply said he didn't know if bee fought him. I proved that during the 3rd shinobi world war Ayy and Bee were strictly a tag team. He certainly fought minato with ayy multiple times, that's what they even showed us in the canon. Only after the third raikage died did killer bee stop fighting alongside ayy, and was trapped in the village under Ay's orders as the newly established raikage. </p> </i></div>
<p>A didn't state the time nor place where he fought Minato more than the first time they saw each other. So, no. Your statement is simply headcanon and doesn't even have any actual evidence for it. And the fact that even if hypothetically, they fought together, B would be a kid, and A would be the one actually battling. </p>

Reread chapter 543. You didn't address the point. You are literally using headcanon now, which is a red flag that concerns me.  We clearly saw killer bee state he thought of a way to counter amaterasu in the heat of the moment. Reread the chapter where see killer be remerging from the tentacle under water. Chapter 419. he clearly says so on pg 14. Orochimaru's oral rebirth is considered a substitution technique, and in my opinion he could substitute out of amaterasu as well in the right circumstances. Killer bee escaped amaterasu fair and square. 

<p>I have no doubts on Orochimaru substitution technique, he has shown to substitute out the burning touch of Naruto's Kurama Chakra and Sasuke with his Jutsu has escaped Amaterasu. But his substitution is different from B's. He leaves his whole body, and the body left doesn't act as a clone, but is just lifeless shedded skin. In this case, B as the Eight Tails was screaming in pain, which shouldn't be logical, in the sense that duplicate should have soon enough returned to normal and shouldn't have acted as an alive one. It just doesn't fit to the logic of substitution jutsus. </p><p>And if you read the very chapter you refered to, you obviously avoided the point where Gyuki said that he's close to losing his stamina after summoning him. So, no, if he comes out of the water, he'll be burned by another Amaterasu attack and he wouldn't be in the same lace as he was before, since his stamina is already worked up. </p>

Sorry, but I have no reason to beleieve that gyuki's v1 and v2 chakra cloak can't repel amaterasu. Those chakra cloaks is literally one of the things all the jinchuriki have in common bar the shukaku jinchuriki. no reason to beleieve they don't have the same properties. V2 is countering amaterasu. Bloodlusted bee comes out, sasuke is surprised because they think the bee they are carrying is the real one. uses amaterasu in desperation. amaterasu falls off of v2 bee, sasuke is surprised and experiences mangeyko backlash. bee then lariats his head off. the end. the other taka members aren't even worth discussing. they get low diffed as well.

<p>Sorry, but that isn't how it works. Kurama Chakra is simply different from the rest of the beasts. Kurama himself posses a unique ability that gives it's user a Chakra Mode that enhances it's own users. And let's not forget how Naruto's and Kurama's was mixed by that point. The Mix of a Six paths Chakra and Senjutsu with Kurama chakra is simply not equal to any of the other tailed beasts. Each are different from each other, or from your point, Shukaku should have had it's own Chakra Cloak like the others. </p><p>So, as the point I shown about Bee's stamina. Sasuke and Jugo sense about something coming out of the water and they see B coming out, but as B's stamina is already dropped heavily by the Tailed Beat Mode, he isn't coming in his actual speed and Jugo and Sasuke easily dodges Killer B. They deduct that the Bee they are holding is a clone and they decide to lose the mission and actually focus on killing Killer B now. They observe that B used up alot of his Chakra, and so Sasuke decides to either end him with an Amaterasu to the face or cut him down with Chidori Sphere. </p>

lol no, sasuke literally has two healers. jugo is a nice backup healer. he literally healed sasuke's chest. karin is a healer. he has 3 allies, two are healers. I don't buy for a second that the injuries he sustained from itachi suddenly outweigh all of that. Sasuke literally is fighting with 3 allies, and he still got washed. How can anyone honestly say that that version of sasuke is stronger than bee?  and lol, I like how taka was dumb enough not to heal sasuke's "injuries" from his fight with itachi before going into a battle with a perfect jinchuriki, smh. So that is their fault, so this excuse doesn't work.  as far as I am concerned juugo and karin healed him multiple times in that battle.

<p>The writer, spoke through Jugo's mouth that Sasuke didn't recover from that battle at the end. Showing why Killer B was able to overpower him most of the time. Jugo's statements shows how his injuries weren't enough to overweight the aid of three allies. And to top it all, they weren't aiming to even kill B. </p><p>You're overating B, as do many of the other fanbase do, most of them do it on the basis of downplaying Sasuke. You're not taking in the facts that Sasuke wasn't aiming to kill him, didn't know about any of his abilities and didn't recover from the earlier battle with Itachi. </p><p>They did heal him, they obviouy did. But Sasuke's not a jinchuriki, he needs time to recover, healing simply doesn't bring you back to your original form. </p>

So that is their fault, so this excuse doesn't work.  as far as I am concerned juugo and karin healed him multiple times in that battle.

<p>Did statement makes me sigh. </p>

You literally selected the statements that are convenient for you and disregarded all the others and the feats shown. MS sasuke isn't the strongest bee ever fought, it's minato, period. Minato has a much better arsenal suited to taking on bee. ayy+bee couldn't beat minato, while both ayy and bee stomped sasuke solo. sasuke's strongest techniques don't work on bee. Amaterasu? countered by full bijuu subsitution, or v1/v2 cloaks. genjutsu? already countered by gyuki partner method. Killer bee already reacted to sasuke's top speed chidori sword before,  the same technique he called unblockable or something, and killer bee literally embarrased him. Killer bee also can outlast that verison of sasuke without any issue because MS backlash sucks.  

<p>You're using your headcanon again. B never fought Minato more than once, and the only time he fought Minato, he got a good inch close to stabbing him. </p><p>Your first statement would have been correct if your headcanon wasn't headcanon. </p><p>A would have died alongside Sasuke if Gaara didn't come to intervene. B would have been caught if everything about him was informed to Taka. If Obito wasn't stupid enough to just send them. </p>

And lol no, he used amaterasu because it was his last stand. they tried to retreat, but bee didn't let them. he had no choice but to risk the mission and kill killer bee to have any chance of escaping alive. he only realized he could extinguish the flames afterward. He didn't want to sacrifice karin, so he then he tried to see if he could extinguish the flames. to his convenience, he learned how to do it in the moment. then he realized he could now actually capture bee alive with his newfound ability to extinguish the flames.

<p>Yes, I don't think I said anything different from that. Sasuke saw Taka as his own Team Seven and wanted to protect them. So he awakened his Amaterasu. Which made Gyuki scream out in pain. He then further on saved Karin, by cutting down Gyuki's Tentecle. Even though Bee never knew Sasuke had a jutsu that could cut down a big tentecle like that and escaped. If B himself cut the Tentecle, he would have been figured out and he would have been again chased down, while his stamina on to the drop. </p><p>Which brought to how stupid Bee's escape was in the first place. </p>

<p>@Blaze </p><p>You are downplaying Bee. You said he didn't counter Amaterasu, when he clearly did. That is going against the manga, and yes he avoided Amaterasu. Why? Because the real Bee, wasn't burning with Amaterasu. Lol, taka wasn't informed on Bee that's why they were unprepared? Hahaha, now you are bending over backwards to defend taka and downplay Bee. </p><p>Bee had no intel on taka, yet look what happened. Bee won. And no, Bee won because he achieved the outcome he wanted. He wanted to leave the village to learn enka, he didn't want A to know, so he fooled Sasuke into thinking he was captured. </p><p>According to you, Taka won, because they didn't capture Bee. What?? There is no logic in that argument. It's blatantly false. And yes you are going against the manga. Also, don't be immature and say I'm going against the manga, when I'm calling you out on doing it. </p><p>Your argument on the tentacle substitution is a straw man, because, 1) Bee performs the substitution, 2) Sasuke didn't notice, 3)Bee did all this while taking Amaterasu, analyzing it, countering it, and putting up a facade. Furthermore, your argument falls flat based on the fact that Bee can make tentacle substitutions by himself. </p><p>Note: This is not meant to insult you, but to make you realize that you can't spew such falsities and claim it is fact and expect others to agree with you. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Blaze </p><p>You are downplaying Bee. You said he didn't counter Amaterasu, when he clearly did. That is going against the manga, and yes he avoided Amaterasu. Why? Because the real Bee, wasn't burning with Amaterasu. Lol, taka wasn't informed on Bee that's why they were unprepared? Hahaha, now you are bending over backwards to defend taka and downplay Bee. </p> </i></div>
<p>Avoiding/escaping is different from countering it. Naruto countered Amaterasu, Obito countered Amaterasu, Kaguya countered, Madara counter and even Nagato countered. While B, Sasuke and A escaped it/dodged it. There's a difference in it. </p><p>I blame it on plot that Taka wasn't the least given any info on B or Jinchurikis. Sasuke usually does research on his opponents, like Itachi and Orochimaru, and now Obito suddenly decide to not tell anything about B? </p>

Bee had no intel on taka, yet look what happened. Bee won. And no, Bee won because he achieved the outcome he wanted. He wanted to leave the village to learn enka, he didn't want A to know, so he fooled Sasuke into thinking he was captured. 

<p>And if you observe closely, Sasuke got 'almost killed' by B because of the lack of Info. B didn't need any info about Taka because they didn't have any mysterious powers that had advantage over him. Though B knew about the Uchiha and the Sharingan. B's whole escape is also part of thanks to his mysterioud abilities Taka weren't aware of. </p><p>Which was already a logicless escape. B switched himself with a substitution, that's fine. But how did the substitution act as B for so long? How did it suddenly neatrulize to B from the Tailed Beast. How did it stay for so long? </p>

According to you, Taka won, because they didn't capture Bee. What?? There is no logic in that argument. It's blatantly false. And yes you are going against the manga. Also, don't be immature and say I'm going against the manga, when I'm calling you out on doing it. 

<p>I don't recall I ever stating Taka won because of that. They won the battle so far, and B escaping it doesn't give him a win, lmao. Yes yoy are going against the Manga, so far I've only stated things from the Manga, you're the one giving different feats different lebals and calling others immature on pointing it out. </p>

Your argument on the tentacle substitution is a straw man, because, 1) Bee performs the substitution, 2) Sasuke didn't notice, 3)Bee did all this while taking Amaterasu, analyzing it, countering it, and putting up a facade. Furthermore, your argument falls flat based on the fact that Bee can make tentacle substitutions by himself.

<p>If B did cut of his own tentecle and suspiciously threw it under the water, Sasuke and Jugo would be able to deduce whats happening. Sasuke himself escaped from Amaterasu, so it's not unbelieveble for him to think of that. </p><p>If B did the way Sasuke did against Itachi's Anaterasu, that is using the substitution for a surprise attack, then I can consider something. But B himself escaped using that method, taking advantage of the fact knowing that they were here to capture him, and acknowledged the still not recovered and held back from Killing intent Sasuke to be the strongest one he fought so far. And Gyuki, his supply source admitted that B wasted a whole lot of chakra on transforming into him/summoning him. So, it's an escape not a win, as per the manga itself. If you're denying that, then sorry but you're going against the manga. </p>

Note: This is not meant to insult you, but to make you realize that you can't spew such falsities and claim it is fact and expect others to agree with you.

<p>Well any sane man with enough intellegence can't go without insulting while doing a long statement against an opinion he doesn't believe. It's okay even if it was an insult, as long as it's not going too offensive. I too apologize if anything comes out as insulting. </p>

<p>@Blazerelease, No, I have yet to use headcanon actually. </p><p>We have seen multiple chakra infused objects blocking or stalling the burning of amaterasu. Gaara's sand, Ayy's chakra armor, naruto's kn1 cloak. I have no reason to believe that gyuki's v2 cloak can't do it. Killer bee used all of his strength? Lol, but how does that make sense when we have seen him fighting for extended periods of time in bijuu mode during the 4 Shinobi world war? Killer bee may have lost most of his strength, but gyuki still had more in the tank and bijuu can give chakra. Killer bee didn't even show off his best techniques, like his bijuu dama barrage, or tentacles that can obliterate a forest, or his ink clones, or his partial transformations in base. Sauske literally showed his entire hand to bee, while bee had several moves left. Sasuke at the time didn't have any mastery over susano'o. Bee literally outplayed sasuke at every turn. He was the superior opponent, and his jinchuriki powers are part of his arsenal. There is no shame in him using abilities he has access to. Gyuki even tells you that killer bee didn't even need bijuu mode, he had the upper hand. Sasuke had a crater in his chest. Killer bee could have simply entered V2 and blitzed jugo and karin while they were debating on how to heal sasuke, and then there would have been nothing they could do about it. Furthermore, none of taka's attacks even put down base bee. Bee tanked jugo's punch. Bee was also relatively unaffected by the chidori attack, as he recovered so quickly he could shunshin across the mountain before jugo even noticed. taka was legit child's play for bee. Bee isn't overrated. sasuke is hella overrated, so that's why kishimoto had him fight bee. to provide a humbling experience for all the sasuke fanboys out there. </p><p>
The intel argument is just an excuse. Killer bee had little to intel. All he knew was standard knowledge that everyone knows about sharingan. he did not know sasuke's precise mangeyko abilities, it was literally impossible to know because sasuke only recently unlocked his mangeyko. Killer bee had never seen sasuke or any of the taka members before. he didn't know what they were capable of. Why does it matter that killer bee is a raiton user? it's irrelevant. The bottomline is that he reacted to sasuke's raiton sword and countered it. the bottomline is that he outplayed him in swordsmanship. Inexperience and lack of knowledge are a part of the game. Sasuke was less experienced than bee, that's part of the reason he lost. It's obvious he had less experience. killer bee is literally like in his mid-30s and spent the greater part of his youth fighting in a world war. sasuke had also never fought a perfect jinchuriki before, so it was obvious he was gonna lose. That's the whole point, smh. </p><p>Minato represented konoha and fought ayy and bee during the 3rd shinobi world war. This is a clear as day manga fact. I don't know what to tell you. when minato became the 4th hokage, the war came to an end. The third hokage ended the war himself with a peace treaty and then declared minato the 4th hokage. I then PROVED, that ayy and bee were strictly a tag team because they used the double lariat together. It means anyone ayy fights, bee is also fighting. I'm almost sure you didn't even reread the chapter I cited based on your comment. Furthermore, we already saw minato can defeat Ayy with low difficulty, it was bee who had to save ayy. Minato never expressed killer intent against killer bee either, you literally missed the dialogue between them. Minato was given the retreat signal. Minato then said killer bee was a fine shinobi. It's obvious that Minato fought bee and ayy to a stalemate many times. After the death of the third raikage, Ayy then restricted bee from fighting. It's clear that ayy and bee fought together against minato the vast majority of times, if not all of them. </p><p>I honestly don't get what your issue is with bee's substitution. To me , it's simply coming across as hypocrisy. sasuke gets to counter itachi's amaterasu using oral rebirth, and you don't bat an eye. Sasuke was initially in pain from the amaterasu as well. escaping a jutsu and countering the jutsu don't have to be the same thing, the point is that the jutsu didn't kill or incapacitate. but when killer bee gets to do it to sasuke, it's suddenly plot? We clearly see that in bijuu mode, killer bee resides in the center of gyuki. what killer bee did is simple. he quickly moved to one of the tentacles when he saw sasuke about to cut it with chidori, and had already left a clone in the center of gyuki. Killer bee has shown to be a quick thinker, so now you are downplaying his intellect? He doesn't seem like the shrewd type. with his dumb rapping and all, but he is actually pretty shrewd. he instantly understood how minato's FTG worked and protected Ayy. then he also predicted that minato would teleport behind him. </p><p>Without sasuke's intervention, killer bee would have to do what they did when madara absorbed gyuki into gedo mazou sure, sasuke may have noticed killer bee's escape mechanism, but then killer bee simply is forced to continue fighting as normal. He then continues to whoop taka's behind, just like he was doing the entire fight. Killer bee clearly stated he wanted to get the chance to escape from the village to get free time. if he goes and kills taka, then those two hidden cloud dudes would see that he was still alive, and he wouldn't be able to escape the village the way he did. that is the only reason killer bee didn't come back and lariat each of their heads off. </p><p>Again, your healing argument doesn't make sense. What unhealable wounds did he sustain from itachi exactly? Karin and jugo are two of the best healers we have seen in the manga. I can just as easily play your game and say jugo saying that is plot, just so sasuke can save face from the humiliation killer bee handed down to him lol. </p><p>My point about sasuke's amaterasu is simple. He DID NOT KNOW that he had the ability to extinguish the flames beforehand. Sasuke said that himself, chapter 415 pg 9, he was like , "is that my mangeyko power"?He literally only discovered that ability because karin was gonna die from the flames. that proves that when he used amaterasu on gyuki, he was going for the kill, period. and killer bee thought of plan to counter it on the fly. he was already planning which tentacle to to move into and how he can do it without taka noticing. sasuke simply gave him an easy opportunity when he used his chidori spear. Only after sasuke discovered that he could extinguish the flames, did he go back to trying to capture bee alive. this is literally stated on panel, hence why I stated you were using headcanon. Sasuke was bloodlusted, trying to protect himself and his team, and went for the kill, and killer bee still trolled him. </p><p>and rofl. The raikage would have defeated the sasuke that bee fought with low difficulty, even in v1. Sasuke charges with chidori, ayy tanks, then Ayy liger bombs. actually scratch that. ayy would lariat his head off too. And lol, no, Raikage would cut off his leg and arm and have his medic heal him. Raikage would be a cripple, but he at least avenged bee and killed sasuke. gaara saved sasuke's life on that panel. and ayy would be able to live. It's clear sasuke isn't anywhere close to being the strongest bee fought. </p>

<p>@Blaze </p><p>@Combat said most of the points that I wanted to say, so please address them. If you still don't see the light, then I really don't know what to tell you. Try reading the fight in the manga again, looking at the abilities, outcomes and motivations for each character. Right now, the manga doesn't agree with you. </p><p>Also, what exactly have I said that goes against the manga? Please tell me specifically what I said and a chapter in the manga with the actual feat. Otherwise, my observation that you are immature to project your actions to me, stands. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Blaze </p><p>@Combat said most of the points that I wanted to say, so please address them. If you still don't see the light, then I really don't know what to tell you. Try reading the fight in the manga again, looking at the abilities, outcomes and motivations for each character. Right now, the manga doesn't agree with you. </p> </i></div>
<p>I will address it and I take it that you value it as your points too. And I actually intended to counter it yesterday, but unfortunately I mistakingly deleted the statement mid way without saving it.... So now I have to write it down again.... </p><p>What's this talk about the light? Are you that full of yourself that you consider yourself absolutely right, even when I'm pointing the flaws in it? </p><p>Motivations: Bee:First defeating Taka, his motivation changed to escaping and faking himself being caught as soon as the Amaterasu appeared. If you deny that, then you're going against the Manga again. </p><p>Taka: Capturing B. Surving against B. </p><p>Abilities: Taka: An unrecovered and held back Sasuke with a swordsman and CM user, who are also holding back and lack immensely in info. </p><p>B: Healing, experience, and the clear advantage in location and having the freedom of going all out against Tama. </p><p>Outcomes: Taka failed in mission, yet survived against the Eight Tails Jinchuriki without prior info or a stable state in the beginning. </p><p>Bee escaped, which for you gives a win? Then I guess Madara won against Hashirama long ago since he came back alive leaving the clone for Hashi. B himself confirmed that Sasuke was the strongest guy he fought. You agreeing with Combat means that you're also against it, and it as in the Manga. </p>

Also, what exactly have I said that goes against the manga? Please tell me specifically what I said and a chapter in the manga with the actual feat. Otherwise, my observation that you are immature to project your actions to me, stands.

<p>You agreed to Combat and denied the fact that B escaped Taka and declared that as a win. You stated that Taka's lack of info and intent and Sasuke's unrecovered not being an influence in the battle, when it was hinted over it. It doesn't just go beyond the Manga but even against Logic. Like come on? </p><p>@Combat. I find it funny that we keep having silly debates like this on this very character in threads that aren't even related to it. Just find it funny. </p><p>Now to the debate. </p><p>You used headcanons, you can't also vouch for yourself on that. Your headcanon that B fought against Minato several times rather the one time they encountered was false. A didn't even bring B to the one fight they had with Minato together. </p><p>One thing, A's Armour didn't block the Amaterasu. Gaara's Sand did though, and Sasuke wasn't surprised with it. He praised that Gaara's Sand Armour has gotten better, as in the speed. So it means, Gaara's sands probably burning down slowly until he let's go of the sand that's directly touching the flame. Or maybe, it's because it's part of the Earth. The ground Amaterasu stands in, don't burn away fast too. </p><p>Either way, Bee's version two cloak is just made of hard failed beast flesh, flesh that was easily cut by Sasuke's sphere, so I doubt it can handle itself from Amaterasu. </p><p>Gyuki's own words, not mine. Maybe they got stronger, maybe B had more control. on his Chakra, maybe Gyuki </p><p>Just remold his Chakra when it's gone, just like Kurama does for Naruto. Or maybe the Substitution technique costs more Chakra, Orchimaru's Oral rebirth did for Sasuke. </p><p>Gyuki literally said that his Chakra is done, not just B's. Killer B's source of Chakra is Gyuki. </p><p>Sasuke also didn't use all of his jutsus, he didn't use Chidori Sphere, or Kirin that could be more possible with the Amaterasy being used. </p><p>Sasuke could have stabbed a hole in B's neck while he was caught in the genjutsu instead of just standing there because he didn't know about B's powers. </p><p>Sasuke's genjutsu caught B mid flight. Amaterasu caught B. B recovering from that Chidori isn't a big feat considering he has tailed beast Chakra, Naruto eecovered from getting a hole in his chest. </p><p>Bee is overrated alot. Like alot. I've seen people state that B is still stronger than Sasuke in the Boruto Period. There are many idiots in the fanbase, that don't prefer Sasuke and enjoy on overating B so to make 'insult' an anime character. There are alot of Killer B fanboys out there just because he handled against Taka. </p><p>And the writer made the fight for an humble experience for the Sasuke fans, now that's just childish? The writer himself stated that Sasuke is his favorite character, and he already stated through Jugo and even B how you much the fight was different from your assumption and headcanons. </p><p>Killer B didn't need any intel. The advantage of experience and mystery was for him. While Taka didn't know a thing about B. Taka didn't have any myterious power that gave them the advantage other than Amaterasu, which actually is famous in the Shinobi world. </p><p>Enough with your headcanons. A was the only one who fought against Minato more than once. B didn't even hinted to meeting Minato more than once. </p><p>Hypocrisy, really? Itachi found a fleshless skin leftover of Sasuke and found him below, by your and @Ninja's logic, Sasuke won with that. He didn't find a dupiclate of Sasuke and it didn't stay for days. While B's stood for days without returning to normal, without being figured by Kisame nor Obito, nor Karin. What's the bs logic behind that? </p><p>And takking about hypocrisy, I suggest you take a look at your statements. You denied the fact that Taka having no intel on B, not having any killing intent on him, and Sasuke not recovering as having no influence to this battle even though Jugo and Killer B admitted to it. So, would you say the same about Itachi and Naruto who fought against Sasuke, would you say that the battle was as it is, and that the health, intent and motive of them didn't bring much difference to the fight? I doubt you would. </p><p>Killer fakes it with Substitution, tries to escape, gets noticed, this time his chakra is down and he doesn't have much surprises left that comes in cheap. Taka either kills him or actually capture him alive, those are the only two possibitlies. Of course you can argue that Killer B comes out of the water and magically regains all of his stamina and is still protected by the plot. </p><p>Well the injuries would be, getting a hit from a death knock our genjutsu, Tsukuyomi, getting hit by Amaterasu, using the CM, getting Orochimaru extracted from his body, and being close to the explosion coming from Kirin unprotected. Why are you going against the Manga all the time? Jugo's statement literally shows how the Injuries were seriously affecting the battle, he wouldn't have said that if it wasn't for that. </p><p>And no, Karin and Jugo are great healers and all, but they aren't tailed beasts. In the Danzo vs Sasuke battle, Karin stated how even after getting healed from her Uzumaki Chakra Bite thing, Sasuke needed to rest and wasn't even fit for a Chidori. That's the thing, Tailed Beast Jinchuriki's like B and Naruto get healed from their stamina to their wounds instantly. While ordinary characters have to deal with getting blows and fighting on with their condition. </p><p>Um, now you're just trying to put words into my mouth. When have I ever said that Sasuke didn't aim the Amaterasu at B for real? He did it as a self defence act, if you read the manga, you'll see B trying to kill them all with his Tailed Beast Ball, Sasuke did what he did as a succesful lucky defence attack that worked. He learned about his other power to stop the flames and so found out that he can still accomplish the mission. Was that not simple? </p><p>Killer B suddenly knew that Sasuke has a technique to cut off his tentecle? He really got lucky there. </p><p>You're here telling me that B was 'trolling' Taka, ignoring points afte points such as B going for the kill the whole time, him admitting that Sasuke was the toughest guy he fought so far? No, you need to know that that's something that Killer B fanboys act as. </p><p>Rofl, I think I'm remembering having a debate similar to this. Sasuke used Chidori dodging Ayy's direct attack, that actually scratches his Armour, A literally praised him for it. And lol, A did a Liger Bomb, that Sasuke literally tanked with Susanoo, thus balancing the rounds lol, A used his armour and Sasuke his. And lmao, no, just no, A only managed to survive Amaterasu the first Amaterasu attack, because he had prior intel on everything about Sasuke. Yet, he got his hand on Amaterasu. If C wasn't there, his hand would bleed off after he cut off his hand. And this is just too much lol, no Raikage is not whatever you're imagining him to be, he would get engulfed in those flames from foot to head, it's funny how fanboys that don't prefer Sasuke usually say that Sasuke would have died, while A miracuasly will survive flames that he can't get of from his foot to head. A wanted to give up his life to end the life of the guy his brother killed, and so did Sasuke. </p><p>So other than going against the manga, logic and going against actual physics of a character. I see nothing is different here. Sorry for the late post though, things just to start to get busier. </p>

<p>@Blaze </p><p>To be honest, I'm not as interested in this debate, simply because it's been a week since your last response. I made a mistake in saying "@combat made most of the points I wanted to say", simply because it leaves the door open for you to twist statements. So, with that in mind let me address what you stated. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: </p><p>What's this talk about the light? Are you that full of yourself that you consider yourself absolutely right, even when I'm pointing the flaws in it? </p> </i></div>
<p>Right back at you, you completely ignored the context, motivations and abilities of Bee at the moment of the fight with Taka. Context: Bee was cooped up in the village and wanted to leave to learn enka. Motivations: Bee did not have killing intent, he was indifferent to taka, and even attempted to leave the fight before karin sensed him. Abilities: I don't even know why I have to say this, but it is clear that Bee can make tentacle substitutions by himself. So saying he needs Sasuke to do it is not true. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: Motivations: Bee:First defeating Taka, his motivation changed to escaping and faking himself being caught as soon as the Amaterasu appeared. If you deny that, then you're going against the Manga again. </p> </i></div>
<p>False, since as I mentioned above, he tried to leave the fight before that. Please provide proof that his motivation changed at that point, since you are so sure. I've provided mine. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: Taka: Capturing B. Surving against B. </p><p>Abilities: Taka: An unrecovered and held back Sasuke with a swordsman and CM user, who are also holding back and lack immensely in info. </p><p>B: Healing, experience, and the clear advantage in location and having the freedom of going all out against Tama. </p> </i></div>
<p>Except Taka, didn't capture Bee, they were fooled with a tentacle substitution, why do you continue to play that off as something impressive for taka? </p><p>Yes, the whole point of the mission for taka was to capture Bee alive, did you forget lol? Bee is a jinchuriki. 4 on 1 against Bee and you cite that taka was unprepared? Well, that is their fault not Bee's. It is not Bee's advantage that Taka was unprepared, it was taka shooting themselves in the foot. Once again, your argument falls apart for that because Bee was also unprepared, and outnumbered. </p><p>It actually goes in Bee's favor since he did all that without intel (for four members of Taka), that is impressive. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: Outcomes: Taka failed in mission, yet survived against the Eight Tails Jinchuriki without prior info or a stable state in the beginning. </p><p>Bee escaped, which for you gives a win? Then I guess Madara won against Hashirama long ago since he came back alive leaving the clone for Hashi. </p> </i></div>
<p>Lol, I'll say it again, Bee tried to leave once, but was sensed by Karin. His motive was to escape and learn enka. He achieved the outcome he wanted. Lol, citing Madara and Hashirama now? (Sigh), you really trying every trick in the book. Yes Hashirama won, and Madara lost, but Madara didn't achieve the desired outcome. He wanted to beat Hashirama, but obviously failed. </p><p>Bee had no such desires, and it's laughable that you tried to compare the two instances. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: </p><p>You agreed to Combat and denied the fact that B escaped Taka and declared that as a win. You stated that Taka's lack of info and intent and Sasuke's unrecovered not being an influence in the battle, when it was hinted over it. It doesn't just go beyond the Manga but even against Logic. Like come on? </p> </i></div>
<p>Hahahahaha. </p><p>Wow. When have I denied that Bee escaped lol? Now I am convinced that you don't want to have a real debate, resorting to such false accusations. Lack of intel? That argument favors Bee not Sasuke. Logic is not on your side, and definitely not the manga. As @Combat says, I accept your concession. You have failed to provide a statement of mine that is incorrect, with a manga chapter that states the truth. </p><p>So, yes you are projecting your actions on me, and immature for doing so. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Blaze </p><p>To be honest, I'm not as interested in this debate, simply because it's been a week since your last response. I made a mistake in saying "@combat made most of the points I wanted to say", simply because it leaves the door open for you to twist statements. So, with that in mind let me address what you stated. </p> </i></div>
<p>I actually didn't want to reply after a week, but I got free time for it, and didn't have anything else to do at that time. Even I lost interest in this debate. </p><p>But how am I twisting statements? You didn't state much and you agreed to whateved @Combat said. I simply showed the flaws in it. </p>

Right back at you, you completely ignored the context, motivations and abilities of Bee at the moment of the fight with Taka. Context: Bee was cooped up in the village and wanted to leave to learn enka. Motivations: Bee did not have killing intent, he was indifferent to taka, and even attempted to leave the fight before karin sensed him.

<p>Abilities: I don't even know why I have to say this, but it is clear that Bee can make tentacle substitutions by himself. So saying he needs Sasuke to do it is not true. You're mistakened there. Bee had all the killing intent in the world, he literally tried killing Taka four times. His first attempt to escape was him understanding that Taka isn't that easy, since he couldn't kill them in his first attempts. </p><p>Then he transformed into Gyuki to end them. It was only during the moment he got caught that he saw an opening to fake his death and leave. </p><p>And when have I denied Gyuki's substitution jutsu? I have only denied the logic of how accurately he predicted the tentecle will be cut by Sasuke and how it lasted long. </p><p>And no, as I've stated many times before. If B simply did an substitution out of nowhere, Taka will notice it. It isn't out of Sasuke's mind of someone trying to escape Amaterasu, since he did it too. </p>

False, since as I mentioned above, he tried to leave the fight before that. Please provide proof that his motivation changed at that point, since you are so sure. I've provided mine.

<p>As I proved above. </p>

Except Taka, didn't capture Bee, they were fooled with a tentacle substitution, why do you continue to play that off as something impressive for taka? 

<p>I never said Taka captured B, just that was ths point of their mission. Taka survived againt a perfect Jinchuriki, unprepared as you would say, without intel and without full recovery of their strongest man. </p>

Yes, the whole point of the mission for taka was to capture Bee alive, did you forget lol? Bee is a jinchuriki. 4 on 1 against Bee and you cite that taka was unprepared? Well, that is their fault not Bee's. It is not Bee's advantage that Taka was unprepared, it was taka shooting themselves in the foot. Once again, your argument falls apart for that because Bee was also unprepared, and outnumbered. 

<p>One would assume Obito, would give hints to his own fellow Uchiha Sharingan user on how B would be immune to Genjutsu. Obito, nor Kisame were given intel, that's Akatsuki's fault, or you can fashionably call it plot. </p><p>Taka consisted of three fighters not four. B was a perfect jinchuriki, making him a perfect team of two. He had all the assets from Gyuki, Sasuke had with Taka, but more. Healing, superior to Karin's. Power, superior to both Suigetsu's and Jugo's. I don't know if you count a titanic monster as one man, but I'll count it as one </p><p>It was indeed B's advantage that Taka knew nothing about him, while the Sharingan is famous. Are you literally avoiding how the fight went? </p>

It actually goes in Bee's favor since he did all that without intel (for four members of Taka), that is impressive.

<p>He didn't need any intel on them. Everything they did was basic. He lived enough to know all that. </p>

Lol, I'll say it again, Bee tried to leave once, but was sensed by Karin. His motive was to escape and learn enka. He achieved the outcome he wanted. Lol, citing Madara and Hashirama now? (Sigh), you really trying every trick in the book. Yes Hashirama won, and Madara lost, but Madara didn't achieve the desired outcome. He wanted to beat Hashirama, but obviously failed.

<p>Lol, so B wanted to escape by thrusting swords into Sasuke? Ripping his body with his lariet? Or killing all of them with a Tailed Beast Ball. Sure, B wasn't trying to kill them at all…. </p><p>Madara actually did. He wanted Hashi's cells to gain Rinnegen. And he did so and isn't Hashi and Madara from the same show or are they from a whole different universe? B at first tried to kill Taka. And Taka survived. B finally decided to escape after getting hit by Amaterasu. It's funny how you don't notice that. </p><p>
</p>

Bee had no such desires, and it's laughable that you tried to compare the two instances.

<p>Huh? Desires? I'm talking about intent, B was a killer, he started trying to kill Taka from the get go itself, while Taka tried to capture him alive. </p><p>
</p>

Hahahahaha.

Wow. When have I denied that Bee escaped lol? Now I am convinced that you don't want to have a real debate, resorting to such false accusations. Lack of intel? That argument favors Bee not Sasuke. 

<p>Logic is not on your side, and definitely not the manga. As @Combat says, I accept your concession. You have failed to provide a statement of mine that is incorrect, with a manga chapter that states the truth. </p><p>So, yes you are projecting your actions on me, and immature for doing so. </div> Lmao. You're been resorting to headcanons, false accusations, straw grasping arguments and going against the manga and logic. And you picture me as the on doing that? </p><p>Either you stand on the side of the manga or you against it, you can't be on both sides at the same time. Taka had no intel, wasn't recovered, had no killing intent. B admitted to Sasuke being the toughest guy he fought so far and reasoned it to using his Tailed Beast. You guys are going so far against the manga and logic here. </p><p>And it's interesting that you're actually being immature here and falsely calling me on it. I've stated every point you guys brought, it is you all that are avoiding it for obvious reasons. So here's what I'll say for you, I accept your concession. You are using simple nos and insults instead of actually trying counter my points. And have so far failed entirely in this debate and is using immature acts in desperate hopes of 'debating', no offence. But this isn't how you should be in a debate. Atleast try to give a counter, I regard @Combat for doing so atleast, even how long the post would be. </p>

<p>@BlazeRelease </p><p>You keep saying that Taka had no information on B. So, it's unfair for them. But you forgot that EVEN Bee didn't know ANYTHING about Amaterasu. And even then, Bee was still PERFECTLY fine at 100% health after he had escaped it. If Bee had known about it, there's no way Sasuke would've stood up to him. As soon as B notices the Blood flowing through sasuke's left eye, he would instantly dodge it with his full Bijuu speed. Another thing is, that Eight Tails is a large object. So, it was easy for Sasuke to catch him with Amaterasu. B's V1 Bijuu cloak was enough to own the whole Team Taka ( Hell, even his base form fucked all of them ). If he goes V2 Bijuu cloak, not only would he able to EASILY dodge Amaterasu ( Due to being a very small object and also fast ) but he would also be enhanced about 5 times more than his V1 Bijuu cloak due to which, he would literally low-diff the whole Team Taka. </p><p>Also, I just watched the fight on my PC ( I have the fights downloaded ). And honestly, the fight was too one sided. B literally OWNED Team Taka like nothing lmao. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>BlazeRelease wrote: </p><p>
And it's interesting that you're actually being immature here and falsely calling me on it. I've stated every point you guys brought, it is you all that are avoiding it for obvious reasons. So here's what I'll say for you, I accept your concession. You are using simple nos and insults instead of actually trying counter my points. And have so far failed entirely in this debate and is using immature acts in desperate hopes of 'debating', no offence. But this isn't how you should be in a debate. Atleast try to give a counter, I regard @Combat for doing so atleast, even how long the post would be. </p> </i></div>
<p>Lol, I call you out on being immature, and low and behold you say I'm immature. Congratulations, you played yourself. </p><p>You argument on Bee having "killing intent" fails because Bee tried to leave the fight before Sasuke used Amaterasu. Taka actually had some info on Bee, they knew he was a jinchuriki and they knew he was from kumo. That's at least some intel, I'm not sure Bee even knew about the sharingan. So your "lack of intel" argument also fails. </p><p>Finally your, "tentacle substitution" argument fails, because Bee can perform it by himself, when you stated he could not. </p><p>Now, in your last post you are confusing things that @Combat stated, from what I have stated. Stop doing that to try and seem like you have any semblance of an argument. I have address your points to me in full, yet you say I didn't "counter" them. It's funny because my "counters" are actually manga feats, where yours are " If Taka knew this then this would happen", in other words speculation and assumptions. </p><p>Feats > assumptions. </p><p>Note: I could pick holes in your previous post(s), since there are many, but I think it would be better to reduce this "debate" back to these three root issues. If these can be resolved then there would be no reason to go on tangents and exaggerations, as this is way off topic. If you can state your points clearly, short and without any of these false accusations, then I would gladly take you seriously. </p><p>Let's not continue in this fashion, since I could not understand you from the first post of yours that I responded to. </p>