@Ninja of War: The momentum/force/speed of the lightning.

@Legion

1) I didn't say Kakashi said anything. I merely said it's only one of many possibilities of what he was referring too.

2) Not if he is doing it in that way. He performed it with such ease that it was portrayed like child's play.

3) Timing? So let me get this straight. Kakashi runs full speed and gets within five feet. This fodder character sees him. Yells. Slashes. All because of timing? No. Timing would of been him seeing Kakashi ran from afar and as Kakashi approached from afar, began his slash. But he waited until the last moment and yelled then slashed. That isn't timing, that's showcasing that he could move just as fast if not faster therefore proving Kakashi just wasn't fast enough. Don't matter what he seen prior. He waited until Kakashi was within striking distance before he moved a single centimeter. Kakashi had every advantage. He had all the momentum. He failed.

4) I don't care for theories especially when they are hard to even grasp. Run slower? Why can't Kakashi just use it standstill like Sasuke? Why couldn't he just use the derivations? Obviously Kakashi didn't want to. Running fast and straightforward gives Chidori it's best possible damage. If the user doesn't run straightforward at such speeds, what good is it? If people could react and counter before, what stops them from going the extra mile? Also the only thing that makes it incomplete is the fact people can react to it. If a technique moved so fast that it hit 99% of the Shinobi population faster than they can react even if the user could not see as it was transpiring, there still wouldn't be a problem because it still hit it's target.

5) Key word. Block. If Sasuke dodged, he'd be faster. If he got hit, he'd be slower. But he blocked which showcases even speed. There's no way you're going to convince me they weren't near even in that fight when the Manga literally portrays it.

6) I'm actually glad you brought that up. Naruto in his tired state, brink of collapsing, was able to uppercut Sasuke, who was already in momentum with his hand inches from Naruto's face, yet the propulsion couldn't beat Naruto's hand out that moved last second? The mere fact Sasuke could even use Chidori in that state proves there's no propulsion factor. He'd be dragged all across the valley, lol. Also he wouldn't be able to hold Chidori facing to his left while in air heading straight. If Chidori has a propulsion, it would pull him to his left and downwards and he wouldn't be able to resist cause he's in mid air, lol.

Too many things wrong with your theory.

Again, how does it affect movement speed?

"Even if there are a lot of enemies, this jutsu can do it in an instant, its the same as your nickname... "

"It doesnt matter how many enemies there are, this'll end it in a flash. Its the same as your nickname"

Official anime dub: "no matter how many of them there are, i can take them down in an instant with this jutsu. Its exactly like your nickname sensei..."

Every single translation Kakashi calls Chidori fast and says its able to take down a large number of enemies in a short period of time and then he even goes so far as to compare it to Minato's nickname. A nickname he recieved for being so fast, not because he has "fast thrusts" or short "time to kill" whatever that means.

What Kishimoto wrote cannot be interpereted any other way and trying to find another meaning is denial/deflection considering the direct parralels he makes between Chidori's attributes and Minato

Ease? Like the 17 shadow clones that failed before him?

He did it with such ease that he was nervous and sweating?

By the time he finished yelling the whole dodge and everything took place

Compare this to the 3rd aikage in the 1st half of 554 if you want to see what it looks like to dodge something with ease

3) Timing? So let me get this straight. Kakashi runs full speed and gets within five feet. This fodder character sees him. Yells. Slashes. All because of timing? No. Timing would of been him seeing Kakashi ran from afar and as Kakashi approached from afar, began his slash. But he waited until the last moment and yelled then slashed. That isn't timing, that's showcasing that he could move just as fast if not faster therefore proving Kakashi just wasn't fast enough. Don't matter what he seen prior. He waited until Kakashi was within striking distance before he moved a single centimeter. Kakashi had every advantage. He had all the momentum. He failed. </div> So jonin level ninja are fodder? I guess Kakashi is more fodder than the rock dude considering Kakashi is a fresh jonin.

Watching someone charge from far away after having studied them for a while and getting an understanding of how fast they are is an advantage for Kakashi? Having tunnel vision and not being able to see anything less than a foot out of direct line of sight is an advantage for Kakashi?

I also want to know how you can tell when he moved considering the ONLY frame with them together has Minato already pulling Kakashi back in the opposite direction he was running and the swing was already finished. For all you know he was yelling and dodging at the same time.

Considering none of the 17 rock JONIN's shadow clones could reflexively dodge close range that means the original had to time it properly from a distance in order to land his strike

So pre-Sharingan and post Sharingan Kakashi would rather not use one of his most destructive jutsu because he refuses to move at a speed in which he can be aware of his surroundings? Thats like saying Naruto would refuse to use the Rasenshuriken unless he uses it the way he did against Kakuzu even though it will sever the chakra network in his hand.

Thats not true.

He can. And he has.

He didnt develop them. He hasnt seen them.

Its actually plenty good considering it has the same destructive capacity when used while stationary. With the added benefit of seeing the opponants counters and being able to react to those counters properly. Its execution wpwould be exactly the same as the Rasengan

Also, none of its destructive force was ever attributed to its speed

Ch 240 p14: "Because the speed of your movements are so fast, you can't see the opponants counter. Because of that, its an incomplete jutsu"

The inability to see a counter makes it incomplete. Not that its easy to dodge.

Reaction time=/=running speed

They werent as exhausted as you are making them out to be. Naruto literally punched Sasuke dozens of feet into a mountain, leaving a crater, and Sasuke had enough stamina to muster another Chidori, Amaterasu, and hold MS through out the entire last clash.

It either pushes/pulls the user. Since no matter how fast a user seems to be or get they still have tunnel vision while using it so it seems to be addative

So you say that tunnel vision happens regardless of speed? Then it's a perception problem, not speed.

@Legion

1) It can be because it obviously is. Why couldn't someone interpret it differently when obviously so many are?

2) What are you talking about? I'm talking about Sasuke thrusting standstill behind Sakura with enough force to kill her.

3) Doesn't matter how far someone is and how much you observe them. If someone runs at you full speed, and you move back just as fast, you move as fast. Not too mention, he pulled a Minato. He literally waited to move until Kakashi was within five feet. We see them clearly in the panel as Kakashi states "Number 18". Kakashi is still in momentum. The guy screams (the scream tells me that Kakashi isn't faster than sound). Slashes upwards. His Slash > Kakashi's speed. One reached the other first. I also like to point out all the clones reacted to Kakashi, and had it not been for Minato blocking all their kunai, Kakashi would have been dead.

But in anycase, I actually retract my argument of Chidori boosting speed. I wanted to see what was actually said from a legit translation. But I need to think and read it over more because of what the Viz has Minato saying...

"From what I saw, it's a strike with a single focus. It certainly has speed and destructive power... But it makes you move too fast to ascertain the opponent's counter attack. It's still imperfect."

I still disagree about Chidori's problem. If a technique connects then there's no reason to see your opponent's counter. Therefore, the problem isn't being able to see the counter, it's why they can counter. As long as the jutsu does it's job, there's no problem. If the target can counter, it is not doing it's job which is thrusting. Anyways, the statement "it makes you move too fast" can be evidence to Chidori boosting speed; therefore, I need to read Gai's and Lee's statements now.

So to clarify are your assumptions based off the Chidori being a ball of tangible lightning or a death stab with said lightning?

If Chidori is a ball of lightning, no the user controls the speed of the ball. If Chidori is the assassination, yes the speed the user moves at is part of the technique. See Eight Trigrams Revolving Heaven it is a technique whereby the user spins to deflect attacks, the power is based on the rotational speed of the user but does not accelerate said speed. The user can agument their speed like Neji using Lee's front lotus to spin them both faster.

The whole thing about chidori not providing it's own propulsion on the grounds that kakashi and sasuke can create it while standing still is illogical, for the simple reason the raikage can stand still with his raiton armor, so that argument gets tossed out of the window. 8 gates guy can also stand still. 7 gates guys stood still over kisame. Almost all speed boosting techniques in naruto boost the user's parameters via a multiper. Obviously, if you are standing still your velocity is 0, so even if your multipler is x 100, 0 x 100 is still 0. basic multiplication people.

And two, no one has properly addressed the tunnel vision issues, so that point still stands lol. The only person who addressed it directly was a moderator and the best argument they had was that naruto has inconsistent physics, which means at worst, we are at a draw, because the best argument the opposition has is that chakra to the arm boosting speed doesn't make sense with physics and logic. But news flash, my argument still stands as a valid theory for the simple fact it's also irrational to believe ninjas don't use their top speed and running. still waiting for proof that base naruto was runs slower with rasengan because he is afraid of tunnel vision. Furthermore the issue with tunnel vision comes when you are moving too fast for your OWN senses. The issue isn't the speed boost by itself. the issue is, can your BRAIN and EYES track the surroundings of your enviorment at those speeds. If you boost your speed to unatural levels, i.e to limits that push your body with a technique, that technique needs to also add a corrective factor to your reflexes,which is the whole reason why the raikage needs the nerve transmission boost from his raiton armor to complement the speed. Kakashi failed to incorporate this corrective facter, so Minato BANNED the technique. Banning a technique is a big deal that people are overlooking. there is a difference between saying a technique is not useful in some situations versus telling someone to never use it again.

Furthermore, no one has proved that the 8 gates or bijuu chakra cloaks fails to stimulate nervous system as much as it boosts the user speed, so that doesn't refute my theory either. Might guy literally runs at relativistic speeds and doesn't have tunnel vision, so it is quite obvious in my point of view that the eight gays corrects for any tunnel vision issues those kinds of speeds would cause presumably by stimulating the nervous system. It isn't directly stated, but at the same time it is heavily implied, so either way it can't be used as a counterargument.

Elvenora said it best: This discussion stems from one thing and one thing alone, people's attempts to explain thetunnel vision'.

@Combat

1) The Propulsion of Chidori is nothing like Lightning Armor and KCM Cloak. Last i checked Lightning Armor isn't something that moves on it's own. Legion thinks Chidori is like a thruster on an Airplane, it has its on push and the users have to pull it back. So no, Lighting Armor and KCM Cloak is nothing like that theory since they don't pull and push the owner, lmao.

2) Why would anyone need to prove wrong an ability of any technique that it isn't stated to have? No one should ever have to prove an ability a fan created for a canon ability. The fan has to prove that they have that ability since the writer did not state they have that ability. That's literally like saying go prove too me there isn't a race of cookie beings on a planet called Bushnu. Smh.

Can this thread be closed? All it is is going in circles.