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ALL POSTSChanging Chidori's page to state it boosts one's speed?
<p>So apparently there's credible information that proves that Chidori boosts one's movement speed. Apparently the fact that the users suffer from Tunnel Vision proves this. So my question is, why hasn't anyone put it on the wiki if this is true? Or does the wiki indirectly state this?
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(Edited by LoneNinja)
<p>@LegionZero
</p><p>1) Or it's a cinematic issue. The author doesn't always show the handsigns on panel, even for techniques that always require them.
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2) It's hard to see with minato because the author switches the camera a lot, so a better example is kcm naruto. Chapter 565 pg 11, why is he complaining about being unable to hit his opponents, despite running directly toward roshi? We even see him running toward roshi and meeting him for close combat? With naruto's top speed shunshin that he used to blitz kisame, that shouldn't be an issue. Roshi woud have been rofl blitzed there if naruto was always using his top speed.The issue is tunnel vision plus being off balanced kakashi and guy were also "keeping up" with those jinchuriki even in v2 form. Clearly we aren't gonna say they are all the same speed. Why isn't naruto "running circles" around them here? I highly doubt roshi is anywhere near as fast as full speed kcm naruto </p><p>Furthermore, again, the proof that characters don't always move at their top speed is right there in those chapters you cited. If kcm naruto can run faster than absolute V2 Ayy, then how is naruto being intercepted by V1 Ayy? Exactly, because you elevate your speed when the situation calls for it. He wasn't expecting Ayy to be fast enough to intercept him. </p><p>
3) It's literally impossible for obito be as fast as minato in running speed. Again, whenever we actually see obito commenting on minato's actual speed, he is always impressed. Minato uses top speed to save kushina, uses top speed to save naruto, but using your top speed mid battle constantly is a different thing. Furthermore, I already stated why minato didn't "run circles" around him. Obito can phase in an instant, plus both characters are on the clock. If minato uses top speed he would suffer from tunnel vision and easily phase through and get tagged by obito's chains, and he is also physically off balanced. Minato would only use his top speed if he certain the opponent can't react to him. So like I said, the characters find a middle ground with speed, fast enough to pressure their opponent, but not so fast it causes tunnel vision, but it's situational. There is no evidence that obito himself was running at his top speed there either, unless we are gonna say they are exactly the same speed just because they covered the same distance lol. </p><p>Going by that same logic, base Might Guy is as fast as obito and minato because guy was able to chase down obito and engage him in CQC. </p><p>4) Further proof? Chapter 641 pg 10-11 I'm not buying for a second that kcm naruto and sasuke are the same speed and they are both running at their fastest just because they are running together in a serious fight against a god tier. Sasuke isn't even anywhere near as fast V2 ayy. If the characters are always concerned about running at their fastest, then there is literally no reason why naruto wouldn't just use his top body flicker and try to hit obito with his rasengan. that shows the characters are willing to run at a mid-ground speed because there are more variables/risks involved, aka physics. Tunnel vision+ the opponent reacting to their attack/ and being off balanced. </p><p>5) </p><p>Again, it's relative. Ayy wasn't moving so fast he face planted but there is considerable distance between himself and that wall before naruto moves. If he could stop immediately there is no reason why he is crashing into the wall. Ayy was confirmed to be running at his absolute fastest there and yet he still ended up hitting the wall. Again, physics still applies in naruto even though there are some fictional aspects. You didn't see how naruto came to a stop there, he still has movement lines on him. Killer bee/tsunade said he had "yellow flash" speed and then the manga panel just shows naruto still slowing down his speed. </p><p>
As for raikiri, as I said the reason Minato banned the technique is because the way kakashi was using it, he was clearly running at his top speed and it caused tunnel vision for him, and the reason kakashi was doing it was because it's a piercing move plus it requires handsigns, unlike rasengan. Kakashi has speed and power with the piercing and running at his top speed but it isn't worth getting tagged by an unseen counterattack. In close range kakashi might as well use a kunai or rasengan, but he doesn't do so because of personality in my opinion. Now that he has lost his sharingan, there is 0 reason why he can't form it in his hand and use it in CQC just like he did to Deva pain. If it's true that raikiri boosts his running speed, then using it when your opponent is right in your face doesn't really offer any advantage, especially since kakashi boxed pain in by placing the earth wall right behind him, there was no space for pain to run to. </p><p>Also, The fact that ayy used V1 against obito against obito at the kage summit doesn't help obito's case. If ayy was using v2 there obito would have lost his head because he seem surprised by Ayy's v1 speed. </p><p>
@Flatzone, It's situational. In some situations the characters take the risk but there is always circumstances. It's high risk high reward to use your top speed, and by the end of the manga many of the characters have advanced dojutsu or sensory abilities that would reduce the effect of tunnel vision. * gates guy can get away with using his top speed with night guy because that attack is something 99 percent of the cast can't react to once he starts running. Characters use their top speed mostly to evade extremely fast attacks, or to run to someone's rescue, or to retreat. Not even ayy is running at his top speed 24/7, unless you think v1 ayy is exactly as fast kage summit sasuke just because they both ran at each other, I highly doubt that, as that same v1 ayy when using his top speed could blitz a kisame clone's head off before it can finish a single hand seal. </p>
2) It's hard to see with minato because the author switches the camera a lot, so a better example is kcm naruto. Chapter 565 pg 11, why is he complaining about being unable to hit his opponents, despite running directly toward roshi? We even see him running toward roshi and meeting him for close combat? With naruto's top speed shunshin that he used to blitz kisame, that shouldn't be an issue. Roshi woud have been rofl blitzed there if naruto was always using his top speed.The issue is tunnel vision plus being off balanced kakashi and guy were also "keeping up" with those jinchuriki even in v2 form. Clearly we aren't gonna say they are all the same speed. Why isn't naruto "running circles" around them here? I highly doubt roshi is anywhere near as fast as full speed kcm naruto </p><p>Furthermore, again, the proof that characters don't always move at their top speed is right there in those chapters you cited. If kcm naruto can run faster than absolute V2 Ayy, then how is naruto being intercepted by V1 Ayy? Exactly, because you elevate your speed when the situation calls for it. He wasn't expecting Ayy to be fast enough to intercept him. </p><p>
3) It's literally impossible for obito be as fast as minato in running speed. Again, whenever we actually see obito commenting on minato's actual speed, he is always impressed. Minato uses top speed to save kushina, uses top speed to save naruto, but using your top speed mid battle constantly is a different thing. Furthermore, I already stated why minato didn't "run circles" around him. Obito can phase in an instant, plus both characters are on the clock. If minato uses top speed he would suffer from tunnel vision and easily phase through and get tagged by obito's chains, and he is also physically off balanced. Minato would only use his top speed if he certain the opponent can't react to him. So like I said, the characters find a middle ground with speed, fast enough to pressure their opponent, but not so fast it causes tunnel vision, but it's situational. There is no evidence that obito himself was running at his top speed there either, unless we are gonna say they are exactly the same speed just because they covered the same distance lol. </p><p>Going by that same logic, base Might Guy is as fast as obito and minato because guy was able to chase down obito and engage him in CQC. </p><p>4) Further proof? Chapter 641 pg 10-11 I'm not buying for a second that kcm naruto and sasuke are the same speed and they are both running at their fastest just because they are running together in a serious fight against a god tier. Sasuke isn't even anywhere near as fast V2 ayy. If the characters are always concerned about running at their fastest, then there is literally no reason why naruto wouldn't just use his top body flicker and try to hit obito with his rasengan. that shows the characters are willing to run at a mid-ground speed because there are more variables/risks involved, aka physics. Tunnel vision+ the opponent reacting to their attack/ and being off balanced. </p><p>5) </p><p>Again, it's relative. Ayy wasn't moving so fast he face planted but there is considerable distance between himself and that wall before naruto moves. If he could stop immediately there is no reason why he is crashing into the wall. Ayy was confirmed to be running at his absolute fastest there and yet he still ended up hitting the wall. Again, physics still applies in naruto even though there are some fictional aspects. You didn't see how naruto came to a stop there, he still has movement lines on him. Killer bee/tsunade said he had "yellow flash" speed and then the manga panel just shows naruto still slowing down his speed. </p><p>
As for raikiri, as I said the reason Minato banned the technique is because the way kakashi was using it, he was clearly running at his top speed and it caused tunnel vision for him, and the reason kakashi was doing it was because it's a piercing move plus it requires handsigns, unlike rasengan. Kakashi has speed and power with the piercing and running at his top speed but it isn't worth getting tagged by an unseen counterattack. In close range kakashi might as well use a kunai or rasengan, but he doesn't do so because of personality in my opinion. Now that he has lost his sharingan, there is 0 reason why he can't form it in his hand and use it in CQC just like he did to Deva pain. If it's true that raikiri boosts his running speed, then using it when your opponent is right in your face doesn't really offer any advantage, especially since kakashi boxed pain in by placing the earth wall right behind him, there was no space for pain to run to. </p><p>Also, The fact that ayy used V1 against obito against obito at the kage summit doesn't help obito's case. If ayy was using v2 there obito would have lost his head because he seem surprised by Ayy's v1 speed. </p><p>
@Flatzone, It's situational. In some situations the characters take the risk but there is always circumstances. It's high risk high reward to use your top speed, and by the end of the manga many of the characters have advanced dojutsu or sensory abilities that would reduce the effect of tunnel vision. * gates guy can get away with using his top speed with night guy because that attack is something 99 percent of the cast can't react to once he starts running. Characters use their top speed mostly to evade extremely fast attacks, or to run to someone's rescue, or to retreat. Not even ayy is running at his top speed 24/7, unless you think v1 ayy is exactly as fast kage summit sasuke just because they both ran at each other, I highly doubt that, as that same v1 ayy when using his top speed could blitz a kisame clone's head off before it can finish a single hand seal. </p>
(Edited by CombatIQmatters)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>FlatZone wrote:
Same argument would be applied to every character
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<p>Only characters with unknown abilities, or first time combat. </p>
<p>Only characters with unknown abilities, or first time combat. </p>
(Edited by Ninja Of War)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Ninja Of War wrote:
</p><p>Proof that Minato was using his top speed there?
@Combat actually made a good argument about characters not always using their top speed. It made me think of this instance in a different light. One could argue that Minato didn't use his top speed to gauge "Madara's" abilities at that point.
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<p>Minato is guaging a man who had already shown to be fast enough to keep up with him, had released the 9 tails on his village, kidnapped hos wife, bypassed super high level barriers, displayed intangibility and who he had recognized as having superior time-space jutsu? Minato had gone so far as to believe he was Madara on feats alone and only ruled it u likely because Madara was supposed to be dead. At minimum he believed "Madara" to be a Kage level fighter so i find it highly unlikely that he was testing him at all. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>1) Or it's a cinematic issue. The author doesn't always show the handsigns on panel, even for techniques that always require them. </p> </i></div>
<p>Its not. A majority of the time it will show at least 1 hand sign. Chidori has been activated multiple times with no need for hand signs by Sasuke and Kakashi. </p><p>2) It's hard to see with minato because the author switches the camera a lot, so a better example is kcm naruto. </div> Then how can you make this claim at all? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Chapter 565 pg 11, why is he complaining about being unable to hit his opponents, despite running directly toward roshi? We even see him running toward roshi and meeting him for close combat? With naruto's top speed shunshin that he used to blitz kisame, that shouldn't be an issue. Roshi woud have been rofl blitzed there if naruto was always using his top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>They were outnumbered, fighting against opponents of a similar level with connected vision and Sharingan, a variety of different abilities, and who could use the forrst as cover for sneak and surprise attacks. Naruto caught Roshi just after the moment you specified and was about to merc him until another jinchuriki blindsided him. Then on the same page this occured, Bee and Gyuki discuss how the forest is getting in the way of them seeing the enemy. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>3) It's literally impossible for obito be as fast as minato in running speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Says you but he did it. Its in the manga. Its why Minato had to use FTG to finish him instead of a good old fashion speedblitz from a blind spot. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Again, whenever we actually see obito commenting on minato's actual speed, he is always impressed. Minato uses top speed to save kushina, uses top speed to save naruto, but using your top speed mid battle constantly is a different thing. </p> </i></div>
<p>So a character has to comment every single time that another character is doing something? </p><p>Minato states that the winner of the fight would be the one who is a split second faster. By his own words, the difference in their speeds were fractions of a second. The split second Minato needed was afforded to him by FTG not his raw speed. </p><p>Kishimoto emphasized this even more by writing on the panel that it was a high speed battle. </p><p>Ch 503 p8 Obito states that he is surprised Minato was able to hit him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>There is no evidence that obito himself was running at his top speed there either, unless we are gonna say they are exactly the same speed just because they covered the same distance lol </p> </i></div>
<p>Not sure how you think this warrents a "lol" as you said both characters are on a clock and then you defeated your own claims that its possible that neither of them are using their top speeds. </p><p>"Both characters need to finish their task ASAP. But neither of them are using their top speed but maybe they both were at their top speed and the only instant the manga gave us a direct comparison of their speed they covered the same distance over the same amount of time but im going to laugh because you think that means they are the same speed." </p><p>Like, really bro? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Going by that same logic, base Might Guy is as fast as obito and minato because guy was able to chase down obito and engage him in CQC. </p> </i></div>
<p>This never happened. Guy never chased down Obito. Obito was constantly toying with Guy when they were in a confrontation and Naruto/Kakashi/Bee/Gyuki butted in whenever Obito was going to try something. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>4) Further proof? Chapter 641 pg 10-11 I'm not buying for a second that kcm naruto and sasuke are the same speed and they are both running at their fastest just because they are running together in a serious fight against a god tier. Sasuke isn't even anywhere near as fast V2 ayy. If the characters are always concerned about running at their fastest, then there is literally no reason why naruto wouldn't just use his top body flicker and try to hit obito with his rasengan. that shows the characters are willing to run at a mid-ground speed because there are more variables/risks involved, aka physics. Tunnel vision+ the opponent reacting to their attack/ and being off balanced. </p> </i></div>
<p>Since they are suppose to be working together so why would Naruto leave Sasuke in his dust? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>You didn't see how naruto came to a stop there, he still has movement lines on him. Killer bee/tsunade said he had "yellow flash" speed and then the manga panel just shows naruto still slowing down his speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>The movement lines are super tiny, showing no distance covered in that moment. If his stop took place over a longer distance then the motion lines would be longer. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As for raikiri, as I said the reason Minato banned the technique is because the way kakashi was using it, he was clearly running at his top speed and it caused tunnel vision for him </p> </i></div>
<p>It doesnt make sense to bam a technique because one way to use it is dangerous. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>and the reason kakashi was doing it was because it's a piercing </p> </i></div>
<p>This is both unconfirmed, debunked by the manga, and nonsensical. Peircing attach do not require the user move at high speeds. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>move plus it requires handsigns </p> </i></div>
<p>As do most techniques in the Narutoverse </p><p>Kakashi has speed and power with the piercing and running at his top speed but it isn't worth getting tagged by an unseen counterattack. In close range kakashi might as well use a kunai or rasengan, but he doesn't do so because of personality in my opinion. </div> Chidori does significantly more damage than a kunai. The only reason Kakashi uses Chidori after Minato banning it is because the Sharingan canceled the tunnel vision. After losing the Sharingan he abandoned Chidori. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Now that he has lost his sharingan, there is 0 reason why he can't form it in his hand and use it in CQC just like he did to Deva pain. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because the speed of Chidori would be transferred into the swing, resulting in distorted vision. </p><p>Sasuke in Boruto again states that Chidori only works in conjunction with the Sharingan dispite having used it without running which is what so many on the wiki attribute the tunnel vision to. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>If it's true that raikiri boosts his running speed, then using it when your opponent is right in your face doesn't really offer any advantage, especially since kakashi boxed pain in by placing the earth wall right behind him, there was no space for pain to run to. </p> </i></div>
<p>Besides the fact that Chidori busts through water tanks and boulders? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Also, The fact that ayy used V1 against obito against obito at the kage summit doesn't help obito's case. If ayy was using v2 there obito would have lost his head because he seem surprised by Ayy's v1 speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>He seemed surprised but he noticed A moving at him from quite a distance away and reacted appropriately and then proceeded to give 0 craps about A or his abilities. Casually hopping about and telling his stories. It wasnt even stated that he surprised by his speed at all. Could have been suprised that A went for an attack at all. </p><p>Being surprised=/=being slower </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>@Flatzone, It's situational. In some situations the characters take the risk but there is always circumstances. It's high risk high reward to use your top speed, and by the end of the manga many of the characters have advanced dojutsu or sensory abilities that would reduce the effect of tunnel vision. * gates guy can get away with using his top speed with night guy because that attack is something 99 percent of the cast can't react to once he starts running. Characters use their top speed mostly to evade extremely fast attacks, or to run to someone's rescue, or to retreat. Not even ayy is running at his top speed 24/7, unless you think v1 ayy is exactly as fast kage summit sasuke just because they both ran at each other, I highly doubt that, as that same v1 ayy when using his top speed could blitz a kisame clone's head off before it can finish a single hand seal. </p> </i></div>
<p>Kisame was faking his death to spy on them... </p><p>A didnt start outspeeding Sasuke until he went V2 so yea, Sasuke was competantly competing with V1 A. If V2 wasnt necessary then A would just move faster while in V1 </p><p>It should also be noted that Purple Lightning and powerful breath are lightning Style techniques that have been used and executed in the same fashion as Chidori but are safe to use. </p>
<p>Minato is guaging a man who had already shown to be fast enough to keep up with him, had released the 9 tails on his village, kidnapped hos wife, bypassed super high level barriers, displayed intangibility and who he had recognized as having superior time-space jutsu? Minato had gone so far as to believe he was Madara on feats alone and only ruled it u likely because Madara was supposed to be dead. At minimum he believed "Madara" to be a Kage level fighter so i find it highly unlikely that he was testing him at all. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>1) Or it's a cinematic issue. The author doesn't always show the handsigns on panel, even for techniques that always require them. </p> </i></div>
<p>Its not. A majority of the time it will show at least 1 hand sign. Chidori has been activated multiple times with no need for hand signs by Sasuke and Kakashi. </p><p>2) It's hard to see with minato because the author switches the camera a lot, so a better example is kcm naruto. </div> Then how can you make this claim at all? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Chapter 565 pg 11, why is he complaining about being unable to hit his opponents, despite running directly toward roshi? We even see him running toward roshi and meeting him for close combat? With naruto's top speed shunshin that he used to blitz kisame, that shouldn't be an issue. Roshi woud have been rofl blitzed there if naruto was always using his top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>They were outnumbered, fighting against opponents of a similar level with connected vision and Sharingan, a variety of different abilities, and who could use the forrst as cover for sneak and surprise attacks. Naruto caught Roshi just after the moment you specified and was about to merc him until another jinchuriki blindsided him. Then on the same page this occured, Bee and Gyuki discuss how the forest is getting in the way of them seeing the enemy. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>3) It's literally impossible for obito be as fast as minato in running speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Says you but he did it. Its in the manga. Its why Minato had to use FTG to finish him instead of a good old fashion speedblitz from a blind spot. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Again, whenever we actually see obito commenting on minato's actual speed, he is always impressed. Minato uses top speed to save kushina, uses top speed to save naruto, but using your top speed mid battle constantly is a different thing. </p> </i></div>
<p>So a character has to comment every single time that another character is doing something? </p><p>Minato states that the winner of the fight would be the one who is a split second faster. By his own words, the difference in their speeds were fractions of a second. The split second Minato needed was afforded to him by FTG not his raw speed. </p><p>Kishimoto emphasized this even more by writing on the panel that it was a high speed battle. </p><p>Ch 503 p8 Obito states that he is surprised Minato was able to hit him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>There is no evidence that obito himself was running at his top speed there either, unless we are gonna say they are exactly the same speed just because they covered the same distance lol </p> </i></div>
<p>Not sure how you think this warrents a "lol" as you said both characters are on a clock and then you defeated your own claims that its possible that neither of them are using their top speeds. </p><p>"Both characters need to finish their task ASAP. But neither of them are using their top speed but maybe they both were at their top speed and the only instant the manga gave us a direct comparison of their speed they covered the same distance over the same amount of time but im going to laugh because you think that means they are the same speed." </p><p>Like, really bro? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Going by that same logic, base Might Guy is as fast as obito and minato because guy was able to chase down obito and engage him in CQC. </p> </i></div>
<p>This never happened. Guy never chased down Obito. Obito was constantly toying with Guy when they were in a confrontation and Naruto/Kakashi/Bee/Gyuki butted in whenever Obito was going to try something. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>4) Further proof? Chapter 641 pg 10-11 I'm not buying for a second that kcm naruto and sasuke are the same speed and they are both running at their fastest just because they are running together in a serious fight against a god tier. Sasuke isn't even anywhere near as fast V2 ayy. If the characters are always concerned about running at their fastest, then there is literally no reason why naruto wouldn't just use his top body flicker and try to hit obito with his rasengan. that shows the characters are willing to run at a mid-ground speed because there are more variables/risks involved, aka physics. Tunnel vision+ the opponent reacting to their attack/ and being off balanced. </p> </i></div>
<p>Since they are suppose to be working together so why would Naruto leave Sasuke in his dust? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>You didn't see how naruto came to a stop there, he still has movement lines on him. Killer bee/tsunade said he had "yellow flash" speed and then the manga panel just shows naruto still slowing down his speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>The movement lines are super tiny, showing no distance covered in that moment. If his stop took place over a longer distance then the motion lines would be longer. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As for raikiri, as I said the reason Minato banned the technique is because the way kakashi was using it, he was clearly running at his top speed and it caused tunnel vision for him </p> </i></div>
<p>It doesnt make sense to bam a technique because one way to use it is dangerous. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>and the reason kakashi was doing it was because it's a piercing </p> </i></div>
<p>This is both unconfirmed, debunked by the manga, and nonsensical. Peircing attach do not require the user move at high speeds. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>move plus it requires handsigns </p> </i></div>
<p>As do most techniques in the Narutoverse </p><p>Kakashi has speed and power with the piercing and running at his top speed but it isn't worth getting tagged by an unseen counterattack. In close range kakashi might as well use a kunai or rasengan, but he doesn't do so because of personality in my opinion. </div> Chidori does significantly more damage than a kunai. The only reason Kakashi uses Chidori after Minato banning it is because the Sharingan canceled the tunnel vision. After losing the Sharingan he abandoned Chidori. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Now that he has lost his sharingan, there is 0 reason why he can't form it in his hand and use it in CQC just like he did to Deva pain. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because the speed of Chidori would be transferred into the swing, resulting in distorted vision. </p><p>Sasuke in Boruto again states that Chidori only works in conjunction with the Sharingan dispite having used it without running which is what so many on the wiki attribute the tunnel vision to. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>If it's true that raikiri boosts his running speed, then using it when your opponent is right in your face doesn't really offer any advantage, especially since kakashi boxed pain in by placing the earth wall right behind him, there was no space for pain to run to. </p> </i></div>
<p>Besides the fact that Chidori busts through water tanks and boulders? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Also, The fact that ayy used V1 against obito against obito at the kage summit doesn't help obito's case. If ayy was using v2 there obito would have lost his head because he seem surprised by Ayy's v1 speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>He seemed surprised but he noticed A moving at him from quite a distance away and reacted appropriately and then proceeded to give 0 craps about A or his abilities. Casually hopping about and telling his stories. It wasnt even stated that he surprised by his speed at all. Could have been suprised that A went for an attack at all. </p><p>Being surprised=/=being slower </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>@Flatzone, It's situational. In some situations the characters take the risk but there is always circumstances. It's high risk high reward to use your top speed, and by the end of the manga many of the characters have advanced dojutsu or sensory abilities that would reduce the effect of tunnel vision. * gates guy can get away with using his top speed with night guy because that attack is something 99 percent of the cast can't react to once he starts running. Characters use their top speed mostly to evade extremely fast attacks, or to run to someone's rescue, or to retreat. Not even ayy is running at his top speed 24/7, unless you think v1 ayy is exactly as fast kage summit sasuke just because they both ran at each other, I highly doubt that, as that same v1 ayy when using his top speed could blitz a kisame clone's head off before it can finish a single hand seal. </p> </i></div>
<p>Kisame was faking his death to spy on them... </p><p>A didnt start outspeeding Sasuke until he went V2 so yea, Sasuke was competantly competing with V1 A. If V2 wasnt necessary then A would just move faster while in V1 </p><p>It should also be noted that Purple Lightning and powerful breath are lightning Style techniques that have been used and executed in the same fashion as Chidori but are safe to use. </p>
(Edited by LegionZero)
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<p>LegionZero wrote:
</p><p>Minato is guaging a man who had already shown to be fast enough to keep up with him, had released the 9 tails on his village, kidnapped hos wife, bypassed super high level barriers, displayed intangibility and who he had recognized as having superior time-space jutsu? Minato had gone so far as to believe he was Madara on feats alone and only ruled it u likely because Madara was supposed to be dead. At minimum he believed "Madara" to be a Kage level fighter so i find it highly unlikely that he was testing him at all.
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<p>So no proof on Minato using top speed? When did Obito keep up with Minato before then? Obito set up explosive tags on Naruto which Minato, removed and avoided the explosion. Later Obito appeared behind Minato, and used Kamui to phase through Minato's slash. To grab Minato. </p><p>You are wrong in saying that Obito kept up with him speed wise before then. </p><p>Also, my point was that Minato was gauging Kamui. </p>
<p>So no proof on Minato using top speed? When did Obito keep up with Minato before then? Obito set up explosive tags on Naruto which Minato, removed and avoided the explosion. Later Obito appeared behind Minato, and used Kamui to phase through Minato's slash. To grab Minato. </p><p>You are wrong in saying that Obito kept up with him speed wise before then. </p><p>Also, my point was that Minato was gauging Kamui. </p>
(Edited by Ninja Of War)
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<p>Ninja Of War wrote:
</p><p>So no proof on Minato using top speed?
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<p>Ch 502 p 9 and 12 The fact that he caught Minato's hand means that his reflexes and combat speed were on par with Minato's, he also pulled a 180 and captured Minato in his chains before Minato could react </p><p>502 p 14: Obito and Minato cover roughly equal distance in thair charge at one another </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>You are wrong in saying that Obito kept up with him speed wise before then. </p> </i></div>
<p>Im wrong? Then explain how it is that in CQC Obito wasnt overwhelmed by Minato and Minato couldnt speed blitz Obito from a blind spot. </p><p>How about you prove that he wasnt using his top speed since you believe he wasnt. </p>
<p>Ch 502 p 9 and 12 The fact that he caught Minato's hand means that his reflexes and combat speed were on par with Minato's, he also pulled a 180 and captured Minato in his chains before Minato could react </p><p>502 p 14: Obito and Minato cover roughly equal distance in thair charge at one another </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>You are wrong in saying that Obito kept up with him speed wise before then. </p> </i></div>
<p>Im wrong? Then explain how it is that in CQC Obito wasnt overwhelmed by Minato and Minato couldnt speed blitz Obito from a blind spot. </p><p>How about you prove that he wasnt using his top speed since you believe he wasnt. </p>
(Edited by LegionZero)
<p>@LegionZero
Context. Obito was talking about his phasing speed. It's a battle of speed because once obito senses an attack, he can phase borderline instantly. Minato needs his FTG level 2, his fastest attack, in order to combat that effectively. That is a very different thing then running speed. there is zero evidence that they were using their top speed there. They were standing what? 18 feet away? Minato throws his kunai and then teleports to it like a few seconds after.
Using your top running speed is also not critical if you have ever watched a boxing match or karate. If both characters are willing to come in close to each other for Close quarters combat, then running at your top speed is irrelevant because the fight switches to combat speed.
</p><p>Like I said, be consistent. why didn't obito run circles into might guy's blind spot if he is as fast as minato? Having minato's running speed means you are faster than the 3 previous hokages. With that speed, base guy would have been warped away without any issue. Guy chased him down and stalemated him in CQC. Obito was never shown to be as fast as minato. why isn't he running circles around Fuu and Torune? why isn't he shit blitzing base kabuto? Obito's speed is hard to scale because his fighting style doesn't require him to move much in the first place.
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Yes they are on the clock, which means there is no time for mistakes. Every second of analysis counts, and minato can't afford to be zipping around at his top speed when he doesn't understand the mechanics of kamui. He needs to be close to obito when he intiates ftg level 2 otherwise obito would have time to phase out. He needed to bait obito into materializing and he can't do that if he was zipping through obito at blistering speed, tunnel vision at all. FTG doesn't cause tunnel vision because it's instantenous movement. </p><p>The notion that raikiri boosts speed comes with a plethora of inconsistencies. Again, let's take a look at kakazu. Shikamaru was fast enough to escape kakazu's suprise attack. Izumo and kotetsu "kept up" with that same kakazu in speed. That same kakazu intercepted kakashi's raikiri before he could finish hidan. So now shikamaru is as fast as kakashi when he is wielding rakiri? izmuo and kotetsu are as fast raikiri kakashi because they ran at kakazu with the same speed and covering the same distance?Something is clearly amiss. </p><p>Second of all, Minato should be faster than kakashi in running speed, raikiri or not, yet he does not experience tunnel vision, and last I checked base minato doesn't have any enhanced sensory abilities or a sharingan, so that also debunks that he was using his top speed against obito. why would minato do the very same thing he told kakashi never to do again if his life, his family, his village are all on the line against "madara uchiha" </p><p>Of course he was gauging madara's abilities. Minato only knows of what madara can do from the legends, and clearly "madara" is immortal because he is still alive. He has no idea what "madara" is capable of in terms of jutsu and techniques, so he has to analyze. </p><p>Like I said, kcm naruto should have been running circles around him if he is using his top speed... By your own logic he should have been able to blitz slap roshi, not trade blows. Why not blitz into his blind spot and wack him in the head with rasengan, then pull the rod out while roshi is stunned/injured? </p><p>My point about sasuke and naruto is that it debunks the claim that the characters always use their top speed. Sasuke is completely irrelevant if naruto's goal is to use his absolute top speed. Forget amaterasu, leave sasuke in the dust, and charge at juubito with the rasenshuriken using his "yellow flash speed" Clearly, there are circumstances where the characters opt not to use their top speed. </p><p>As for handsigns, I can easily debunk this. Chapter 332 pg 11. We know for a fact Doton: domu requires at least one earth style handsign, yet he activates it with no shown handsign. Fast forward, and when the plot required it, we can see his hand seals when kakashi is watching him use it to protect himself from choji's attack. The characters can weave seals really fast and it's not always shown for cinematic purposes. </p><p>Again, the bigggest mistake I was making before was forgetting the nature of the attack. It's an assassination technique and any one can see and hear it coming from a mile away. You have to start the technique outside the attack range or it isn't gonna tag any decently skilled opponent. The speed closes the distance efficiently, which is why kakashi needs his top speed. Furthermore, the techinique is chakra intensive. Furthermore, it's a piercing move. Piercing moves benefit from increased speed to ensure you stab through your opponent for a certain kill. But without a sharingan, if your opponent reacts your screwed. </p><p>There is no evidence that sasuke is as fast as v1 ay. They both charged at each other and sasuke used his sharingan for combat speed to dodge the elbow. Ayy tanked chidori so that he could then transition into a body slam, because sasuke's hand was lodged into his body. </p><p>Want more proof the characters don't use their top speed always? Killer bee shunshined across a mountain when he attempted to escape and jugo didn't even notice. yet the whole rest of time they were fighting bee wasn't "running circles" around them, proving my point that using your top speed isn't always applicable in the heat of battle. </p>
Yes they are on the clock, which means there is no time for mistakes. Every second of analysis counts, and minato can't afford to be zipping around at his top speed when he doesn't understand the mechanics of kamui. He needs to be close to obito when he intiates ftg level 2 otherwise obito would have time to phase out. He needed to bait obito into materializing and he can't do that if he was zipping through obito at blistering speed, tunnel vision at all. FTG doesn't cause tunnel vision because it's instantenous movement. </p><p>The notion that raikiri boosts speed comes with a plethora of inconsistencies. Again, let's take a look at kakazu. Shikamaru was fast enough to escape kakazu's suprise attack. Izumo and kotetsu "kept up" with that same kakazu in speed. That same kakazu intercepted kakashi's raikiri before he could finish hidan. So now shikamaru is as fast as kakashi when he is wielding rakiri? izmuo and kotetsu are as fast raikiri kakashi because they ran at kakazu with the same speed and covering the same distance?Something is clearly amiss. </p><p>Second of all, Minato should be faster than kakashi in running speed, raikiri or not, yet he does not experience tunnel vision, and last I checked base minato doesn't have any enhanced sensory abilities or a sharingan, so that also debunks that he was using his top speed against obito. why would minato do the very same thing he told kakashi never to do again if his life, his family, his village are all on the line against "madara uchiha" </p><p>Of course he was gauging madara's abilities. Minato only knows of what madara can do from the legends, and clearly "madara" is immortal because he is still alive. He has no idea what "madara" is capable of in terms of jutsu and techniques, so he has to analyze. </p><p>Like I said, kcm naruto should have been running circles around him if he is using his top speed... By your own logic he should have been able to blitz slap roshi, not trade blows. Why not blitz into his blind spot and wack him in the head with rasengan, then pull the rod out while roshi is stunned/injured? </p><p>My point about sasuke and naruto is that it debunks the claim that the characters always use their top speed. Sasuke is completely irrelevant if naruto's goal is to use his absolute top speed. Forget amaterasu, leave sasuke in the dust, and charge at juubito with the rasenshuriken using his "yellow flash speed" Clearly, there are circumstances where the characters opt not to use their top speed. </p><p>As for handsigns, I can easily debunk this. Chapter 332 pg 11. We know for a fact Doton: domu requires at least one earth style handsign, yet he activates it with no shown handsign. Fast forward, and when the plot required it, we can see his hand seals when kakashi is watching him use it to protect himself from choji's attack. The characters can weave seals really fast and it's not always shown for cinematic purposes. </p><p>Again, the bigggest mistake I was making before was forgetting the nature of the attack. It's an assassination technique and any one can see and hear it coming from a mile away. You have to start the technique outside the attack range or it isn't gonna tag any decently skilled opponent. The speed closes the distance efficiently, which is why kakashi needs his top speed. Furthermore, the techinique is chakra intensive. Furthermore, it's a piercing move. Piercing moves benefit from increased speed to ensure you stab through your opponent for a certain kill. But without a sharingan, if your opponent reacts your screwed. </p><p>There is no evidence that sasuke is as fast as v1 ay. They both charged at each other and sasuke used his sharingan for combat speed to dodge the elbow. Ayy tanked chidori so that he could then transition into a body slam, because sasuke's hand was lodged into his body. </p><p>Want more proof the characters don't use their top speed always? Killer bee shunshined across a mountain when he attempted to escape and jugo didn't even notice. yet the whole rest of time they were fighting bee wasn't "running circles" around them, proving my point that using your top speed isn't always applicable in the heat of battle. </p>
(Edited by CombatIQmatters)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>LegionZero wrote:
</p><p>Ch 502 p 9 and 12
The fact that he caught Minato's hand means that his reflexes and combat speed were on par with Minato's, he also pulled a 180 and captured Minato in his chains before Minato could react
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<p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash(MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>502 p 14: Obito and Minato cover roughly equal distance in thair charge at one another </p> </i></div>
<p>My point was that Minato was gauging Kamui then. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>Im wrong? Then explain how it is that in CQC Obito wasnt overwhelmed by Minato and Minato couldnt speed blitz Obito from a blind spot. </p><p>How about you prove that he wasnt using his top speed since you believe he wasnt. </p> </i></div>
<p>I showed you how in my previous post, note which part of the fight I'm talking about. Should I post it again? </p><p>Don't have to prove that, since I'm asking you for proof on one of your statements. </p>
<p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash(MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>502 p 14: Obito and Minato cover roughly equal distance in thair charge at one another </p> </i></div>
<p>My point was that Minato was gauging Kamui then. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>Im wrong? Then explain how it is that in CQC Obito wasnt overwhelmed by Minato and Minato couldnt speed blitz Obito from a blind spot. </p><p>How about you prove that he wasnt using his top speed since you believe he wasnt. </p> </i></div>
<p>I showed you how in my previous post, note which part of the fight I'm talking about. Should I post it again? </p><p>Don't have to prove that, since I'm asking you for proof on one of your statements. </p>
(Edited by Ninja Of War)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Ninja of War wrote:
</p><p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash (MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved.
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<p>Excellent point. I think the sharingan is often forgotten but it's predicability is a big deal, plus obito's insight into his former master would have given him the advantage there. lol if obito didn't have kamui I'm certain after gauging him minato would have used his top speed against him without any worry, because if your opponent can't react then there is no reason to worry about tunnel vision. I'm certain Obito is fast just by virtue of having hashirama cells but nothing says he is as fast minato. </p>
<p>Excellent point. I think the sharingan is often forgotten but it's predicability is a big deal, plus obito's insight into his former master would have given him the advantage there. lol if obito didn't have kamui I'm certain after gauging him minato would have used his top speed against him without any worry, because if your opponent can't react then there is no reason to worry about tunnel vision. I'm certain Obito is fast just by virtue of having hashirama cells but nothing says he is as fast minato. </p>
(Edited by CombatIQmatters)
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>CombatIQmatters wrote:
@LegionZero
Context. Obito was talking about his phasing speed. It's a battle of speed because once obito senses an attack, he can phase borderline instantly. Minato needs his FTG level 2, his fastest attack, in order to combat that effectively. That is a very different thing then running speed. there is zero evidence that they were using their top speed there. They were standing what? 18 feet away? Minato throws his kunai and then teleports to it like a few seconds after.
Using your top running speed is also not critical if you have ever watched a boxing match or karate. If both characters are willing to come in close to each other for Close quarters combat, then running at your top speed is irrelevant because the fight switches to combat speed.
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<p>Cool and all but this isnt a boxing or karate match. There was much more at stake and Minato's best/quickest win method would be to get behind Obito and get hit on him, which he needed FTG for. Because Obito could read his movements and keep up with them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, be consistent. why didn't obito run circles into might guy's blind spot if he is as fast as minato? Having minato's running speed means you are faster than the 3 previous hokages. With that speed, base guy would have been warped away without any issue. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because he was screwing with Guy, Naruto, Kakashi, and Bee the whole time. He wasnt the least bit concerned about any of them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Guy chased him down and stalemated him in CQC. </p> </i></div>
<p>On some realness, chapters. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito was never shown to be as fast as minato. </p> </i></div>
<p>He was when he and Minato fought and Minato couldnt speed blitz him or pull some "super speed suddenly appear behind the enemy" thing. If Minato was faster he would have been able to get around Obito or strike Obito without Obito realizing it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Why isn't he running circles around Fuu and Torune? </p> </i></div>
<p>He punked them what are you talking about? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>why isn't he shit blitzing base kabuto? </p> </i></div>
<p>Chapter? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Yes they are on the clock, which means there is no time for mistakes. Every second of analysis counts, and minato can't afford to be zipping around at his top speed when he doesn't understand the mechanics of kamui. </p> </i></div>
<p>He did understand the mechanics of Kamui, he analyzed it when he first swung at Obito and phased right through him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>He needs to be close to obito when he intiates ftg level 2 otherwise obito would have time to phase out. He needed to bait obito into materializing and he can't do that if he was zipping through obito at blistering speed, tunnel vision at all. FTG doesn't cause tunnel vision because it's instantenous movement. </p> </i></div>
<p>If he was faster than Obito then Obito wouldnt have time to react and activate Kamui or even see Minato once Minato moved out of his line of sight. Zipping around into his blind spots and sneaking an attack is actually one of the best bets. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>The notion that raikiri boosts speed comes with a plethora of inconsistencies. Again, let's take a look at kakazu. Shikamaru was fast enough to escape kakazu's suprise attack. Izumo and kotetsu "kept up" with that same kakazu in speed. That same kakazu intercepted kakashi's raikiri before he could finish hidan. So now shikamaru is as fast as kakashi when he is wielding rakiri? izmuo and kotetsu are as fast raikiri kakashi because they ran at kakazu with the same speed and covering the same distance?Something is clearly amiss. </p> </i></div>
<p>They didnt keep up with him. In fact the 1st thing they did was stop him from moving his feet and he just punked them with some midrange stuff </p><p>Shikamaru managed to dodge the initial attack but after that Kakuzu was going to merc him before he could get up off the ground and he needed to be saved by Asuma. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Second of all, Minato should be faster than kakashi in running speed, raikiri or not, yet he does not experience tunnel vision, and last I checked base minato doesn't have any enhanced sensory abilities or a sharingan, so that also debunks that he was using his top speed against obito. why would minato do the very same thing he told kakashi never to do again if his life, his family, his village are all on the line against "madara uchiha" </p> </i></div>
<p>Because Minato's senses have grown alongisde his speed. Chidori's speed boost is not something the user would be accustomed to. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Of course he was gauging madara's abilities. Minato only knows of what madara can do from the legends, and clearly "madara" is immortal because he is still alive. He has no idea what "madara" is capable of in terms of jutsu and techniques, so he has to analyze. </p> </i></div>
<p>Minato knew dick all about A and his abilities and the 1st thing he did was go for the kill. He knew dick all about Bees abilities but he decided to taunt him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, kcm naruto should have been running circles around him if he is using his top speed... By your own logic he should have been able to blitz slap roshi, not trade blows. Why not blitz into his blind spot and wack him in the head with rasengan, then pull the rod out while roshi is stunned/injured? </p> </i></div>
<p>What blind spot? His vision was connected to 5 other people and when Naruto was in the middle of mercing him one of the other Edo-jin sucker punched him. In a one-on-one he would have beat them easy, but the environment+their shared vision prevented that from happening. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>My point about sasuke and naruto is that it debunks the claim that the characters always use their top speed. Sasuke is completely irrelevant if naruto's goal is to use his absolute top speed. Forget amaterasu, leave sasuke in the dust, and charge at juubito with the rasenshuriken using his "yellow flash speed" Clearly, there are circumstances where the characters opt not to use their top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>It wasnt his goal to use his top speed at that time. His goal was to cooporate and communicate with Sasuke </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As for handsigns, I can easily debunk this. Chapter 332 pg 11. We know for a fact Doton: domu requires at least one earth style handsign, yet he activates it with no shown handsign. Fast forward, and when the plot required it, we can see his hand seals when kakashi is watching him use it to protect himself from choji's attack. The characters can weave seals really fast and it's not always shown for cinematic purposes. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not debunked. It was explained on page 333 that he is fast enough that it typically cant be seen. </p><p>Ch 308 p5: Sasuke activated Chidori Nagashi while Naruto held one hand </p><p>Ch 308 p 7: Sasuke flows Chidori into his sword while holding said sword </p><p>Ch 348 p12: Kakashi activates Chidori with no hand signs </p><p>Ch 358 p5: Sasuke activates Chidori and then used Sharp Spear while holding his sword in one hand. </p><p>Ch 411 p17: B channels lightning chakra into his sword while holding 7 other swords </p><p>Ch 412 p3: Sasuke activates Chidori without even lifting his hand from the ground </p><p>A's Lightning armor doesnt even use handsigns. The series has made made it chlear that Chidori/Raikiri can be done without hand signs and implies that a variety of lightning jutsu dont beed hand signs. </p><p>There are more insances but im honestly bored of scanning damn near the whole manga to find it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Furthermore, it's a piercing move. Piercing moves benefit from increased speed to ensure you stab through your opponent for a certain kill. But without a sharingan, if your opponent reacts your screwed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Punches, tackles, slashes etc etc, 90% of moves benefit from speed, Chidori is not special </p><p>I dont know how many times i have to say this but Chidori is shown capable of piercing just about whatever without running. The series has never said the speed increases its peircing power and has never shown less peircing power without a run. </p><p>The only thing i recall the series stating about the purpose of the speed is that it is to try to completely bypass reaction time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>There is no evidence that sasuke is as fast as v1 ay. They both charged at each other and sasuke used his sharingan for combat speed to dodge the elbow. Ayy tanked chidori so that he could then transition into a body slam, because sasuke's hand was lodged into his body. </p> </i></div>
<p>They were legit swapping hands and A didnt start dominating Sasuke until going V2. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Want more proof the characters don't use their top speed always? Killer bee shunshined across a mountain when he attempted to escape and jugo didn't even notice. yet the whole rest of time they were fighting bee wasn't "running circles" around them, proving my point that using your top speed isn't always applicable in the heat of battle. </p> </i></div>
<p>Bee wasnt taking them seriously. If he was he would have started his fight with his Bijuu abilities. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash(MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> </i></div>
<p>Predicted? The series established that the Sharingan is useless if the the user is too slow to react properly to an opponant back in the Chunnin Exams arc. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>My point was that Minato was gauging Kamui then. </p> </i></div>
<p>He had already analyzed Kamui after his hand slipped through Obito. </p><p>If he wanted to guage Kamui he would throw things at him or use a shadow clone, not run face first and then get cought off guard. If those chains were like barbed wire or razor wire or if Obito decided to crush his throat he would be dead. </p>
<p>Cool and all but this isnt a boxing or karate match. There was much more at stake and Minato's best/quickest win method would be to get behind Obito and get hit on him, which he needed FTG for. Because Obito could read his movements and keep up with them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, be consistent. why didn't obito run circles into might guy's blind spot if he is as fast as minato? Having minato's running speed means you are faster than the 3 previous hokages. With that speed, base guy would have been warped away without any issue. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because he was screwing with Guy, Naruto, Kakashi, and Bee the whole time. He wasnt the least bit concerned about any of them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Guy chased him down and stalemated him in CQC. </p> </i></div>
<p>On some realness, chapters. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito was never shown to be as fast as minato. </p> </i></div>
<p>He was when he and Minato fought and Minato couldnt speed blitz him or pull some "super speed suddenly appear behind the enemy" thing. If Minato was faster he would have been able to get around Obito or strike Obito without Obito realizing it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Why isn't he running circles around Fuu and Torune? </p> </i></div>
<p>He punked them what are you talking about? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>why isn't he shit blitzing base kabuto? </p> </i></div>
<p>Chapter? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Yes they are on the clock, which means there is no time for mistakes. Every second of analysis counts, and minato can't afford to be zipping around at his top speed when he doesn't understand the mechanics of kamui. </p> </i></div>
<p>He did understand the mechanics of Kamui, he analyzed it when he first swung at Obito and phased right through him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>He needs to be close to obito when he intiates ftg level 2 otherwise obito would have time to phase out. He needed to bait obito into materializing and he can't do that if he was zipping through obito at blistering speed, tunnel vision at all. FTG doesn't cause tunnel vision because it's instantenous movement. </p> </i></div>
<p>If he was faster than Obito then Obito wouldnt have time to react and activate Kamui or even see Minato once Minato moved out of his line of sight. Zipping around into his blind spots and sneaking an attack is actually one of the best bets. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>The notion that raikiri boosts speed comes with a plethora of inconsistencies. Again, let's take a look at kakazu. Shikamaru was fast enough to escape kakazu's suprise attack. Izumo and kotetsu "kept up" with that same kakazu in speed. That same kakazu intercepted kakashi's raikiri before he could finish hidan. So now shikamaru is as fast as kakashi when he is wielding rakiri? izmuo and kotetsu are as fast raikiri kakashi because they ran at kakazu with the same speed and covering the same distance?Something is clearly amiss. </p> </i></div>
<p>They didnt keep up with him. In fact the 1st thing they did was stop him from moving his feet and he just punked them with some midrange stuff </p><p>Shikamaru managed to dodge the initial attack but after that Kakuzu was going to merc him before he could get up off the ground and he needed to be saved by Asuma. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Second of all, Minato should be faster than kakashi in running speed, raikiri or not, yet he does not experience tunnel vision, and last I checked base minato doesn't have any enhanced sensory abilities or a sharingan, so that also debunks that he was using his top speed against obito. why would minato do the very same thing he told kakashi never to do again if his life, his family, his village are all on the line against "madara uchiha" </p> </i></div>
<p>Because Minato's senses have grown alongisde his speed. Chidori's speed boost is not something the user would be accustomed to. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Of course he was gauging madara's abilities. Minato only knows of what madara can do from the legends, and clearly "madara" is immortal because he is still alive. He has no idea what "madara" is capable of in terms of jutsu and techniques, so he has to analyze. </p> </i></div>
<p>Minato knew dick all about A and his abilities and the 1st thing he did was go for the kill. He knew dick all about Bees abilities but he decided to taunt him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, kcm naruto should have been running circles around him if he is using his top speed... By your own logic he should have been able to blitz slap roshi, not trade blows. Why not blitz into his blind spot and wack him in the head with rasengan, then pull the rod out while roshi is stunned/injured? </p> </i></div>
<p>What blind spot? His vision was connected to 5 other people and when Naruto was in the middle of mercing him one of the other Edo-jin sucker punched him. In a one-on-one he would have beat them easy, but the environment+their shared vision prevented that from happening. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>My point about sasuke and naruto is that it debunks the claim that the characters always use their top speed. Sasuke is completely irrelevant if naruto's goal is to use his absolute top speed. Forget amaterasu, leave sasuke in the dust, and charge at juubito with the rasenshuriken using his "yellow flash speed" Clearly, there are circumstances where the characters opt not to use their top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>It wasnt his goal to use his top speed at that time. His goal was to cooporate and communicate with Sasuke </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As for handsigns, I can easily debunk this. Chapter 332 pg 11. We know for a fact Doton: domu requires at least one earth style handsign, yet he activates it with no shown handsign. Fast forward, and when the plot required it, we can see his hand seals when kakashi is watching him use it to protect himself from choji's attack. The characters can weave seals really fast and it's not always shown for cinematic purposes. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not debunked. It was explained on page 333 that he is fast enough that it typically cant be seen. </p><p>Ch 308 p5: Sasuke activated Chidori Nagashi while Naruto held one hand </p><p>Ch 308 p 7: Sasuke flows Chidori into his sword while holding said sword </p><p>Ch 348 p12: Kakashi activates Chidori with no hand signs </p><p>Ch 358 p5: Sasuke activates Chidori and then used Sharp Spear while holding his sword in one hand. </p><p>Ch 411 p17: B channels lightning chakra into his sword while holding 7 other swords </p><p>Ch 412 p3: Sasuke activates Chidori without even lifting his hand from the ground </p><p>A's Lightning armor doesnt even use handsigns. The series has made made it chlear that Chidori/Raikiri can be done without hand signs and implies that a variety of lightning jutsu dont beed hand signs. </p><p>There are more insances but im honestly bored of scanning damn near the whole manga to find it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Furthermore, it's a piercing move. Piercing moves benefit from increased speed to ensure you stab through your opponent for a certain kill. But without a sharingan, if your opponent reacts your screwed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Punches, tackles, slashes etc etc, 90% of moves benefit from speed, Chidori is not special </p><p>I dont know how many times i have to say this but Chidori is shown capable of piercing just about whatever without running. The series has never said the speed increases its peircing power and has never shown less peircing power without a run. </p><p>The only thing i recall the series stating about the purpose of the speed is that it is to try to completely bypass reaction time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>There is no evidence that sasuke is as fast as v1 ay. They both charged at each other and sasuke used his sharingan for combat speed to dodge the elbow. Ayy tanked chidori so that he could then transition into a body slam, because sasuke's hand was lodged into his body. </p> </i></div>
<p>They were legit swapping hands and A didnt start dominating Sasuke until going V2. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Want more proof the characters don't use their top speed always? Killer bee shunshined across a mountain when he attempted to escape and jugo didn't even notice. yet the whole rest of time they were fighting bee wasn't "running circles" around them, proving my point that using your top speed isn't always applicable in the heat of battle. </p> </i></div>
<p>Bee wasnt taking them seriously. If he was he would have started his fight with his Bijuu abilities. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash(MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> </i></div>
<p>Predicted? The series established that the Sharingan is useless if the the user is too slow to react properly to an opponant back in the Chunnin Exams arc. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>My point was that Minato was gauging Kamui then. </p> </i></div>
<p>He had already analyzed Kamui after his hand slipped through Obito. </p><p>If he wanted to guage Kamui he would throw things at him or use a shadow clone, not run face first and then get cought off guard. If those chains were like barbed wire or razor wire or if Obito decided to crush his throat he would be dead. </p>
(Edited by LegionZero)
<p>@Legion
</p><p>It was preempted. Obito knew what Minato would do, all he had to do was to time the counterattack. It's not the same as reaction or first time combat.
</p><p>On gauging Kamui the second time, no the first time he reacted to it. The second time was the analysis. Minato has no idea of this technique. The second instance was most likely to determine that Obito needs to materialize to interact, as with the chain.
</p><p>Really? Minato would be dead from barbed wire? No man. Obito would have just phased through anything Minato threw at him, shadow clones require hand signs, which Minato does not prefer in combat.
</p>
(Edited by Ninja Of War)