<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja of War wrote: </p><p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash (MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> </i></div>
<p>Excellent point. I think the sharingan is often forgotten but it's predicability is a big deal, plus obito's insight into his former master would have given him the advantage there. lol if obito didn't have kamui I'm certain after gauging him minato would have used his top speed against him without any worry, because if your opponent can't react then there is no reason to worry about tunnel vision. I'm certain Obito is fast just by virtue of having hashirama cells but nothing says he is as fast minato. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero Context. Obito was talking about his phasing speed. It's a battle of speed because once obito senses an attack, he can phase borderline instantly. Minato needs his FTG level 2, his fastest attack, in order to combat that effectively. That is a very different thing then running speed. there is zero evidence that they were using their top speed there. They were standing what? 18 feet away? Minato throws his kunai and then teleports to it like a few seconds after. Using your top running speed is also not critical if you have ever watched a boxing match or karate. If both characters are willing to come in close to each other for Close quarters combat, then running at your top speed is irrelevant because the fight switches to combat speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Cool and all but this isnt a boxing or karate match. There was much more at stake and Minato's best/quickest win method would be to get behind Obito and get hit on him, which he needed FTG for. Because Obito could read his movements and keep up with them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, be consistent. why didn't obito run circles into might guy's blind spot if he is as fast as minato? Having minato's running speed means you are faster than the 3 previous hokages. With that speed, base guy would have been warped away without any issue. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because he was screwing with Guy, Naruto, Kakashi, and Bee the whole time. He wasnt the least bit concerned about any of them. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Guy chased him down and stalemated him in CQC. </p> </i></div>
<p>On some realness, chapters. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito was never shown to be as fast as minato. </p> </i></div>
<p>He was when he and Minato fought and Minato couldnt speed blitz him or pull some "super speed suddenly appear behind the enemy" thing. If Minato was faster he would have been able to get around Obito or strike Obito without Obito realizing it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Why isn't he running circles around Fuu and Torune? </p> </i></div>
<p>He punked them what are you talking about? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>why isn't he shit blitzing base kabuto? </p> </i></div>
<p>Chapter? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Yes they are on the clock, which means there is no time for mistakes. Every second of analysis counts, and minato can't afford to be zipping around at his top speed when he doesn't understand the mechanics of kamui. </p> </i></div>
<p>He did understand the mechanics of Kamui, he analyzed it when he first swung at Obito and phased right through him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>He needs to be close to obito when he intiates ftg level 2 otherwise obito would have time to phase out. He needed to bait obito into materializing and he can't do that if he was zipping through obito at blistering speed, tunnel vision at all. FTG doesn't cause tunnel vision because it's instantenous movement. </p> </i></div>
<p>If he was faster than Obito then Obito wouldnt have time to react and activate Kamui or even see Minato once Minato moved out of his line of sight. Zipping around into his blind spots and sneaking an attack is actually one of the best bets. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>The notion that raikiri boosts speed comes with a plethora of inconsistencies. Again, let's take a look at kakazu. Shikamaru was fast enough to escape kakazu's suprise attack. Izumo and kotetsu "kept up" with that same kakazu in speed. That same kakazu intercepted kakashi's raikiri before he could finish hidan. So now shikamaru is as fast as kakashi when he is wielding rakiri? izmuo and kotetsu are as fast raikiri kakashi because they ran at kakazu with the same speed and covering the same distance?Something is clearly amiss. </p> </i></div>
<p>They didnt keep up with him. In fact the 1st thing they did was stop him from moving his feet and he just punked them with some midrange stuff </p><p>Shikamaru managed to dodge the initial attack but after that Kakuzu was going to merc him before he could get up off the ground and he needed to be saved by Asuma. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Second of all, Minato should be faster than kakashi in running speed, raikiri or not, yet he does not experience tunnel vision, and last I checked base minato doesn't have any enhanced sensory abilities or a sharingan, so that also debunks that he was using his top speed against obito. why would minato do the very same thing he told kakashi never to do again if his life, his family, his village are all on the line against "madara uchiha" </p> </i></div>
<p>Because Minato's senses have grown alongisde his speed. Chidori's speed boost is not something the user would be accustomed to. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Of course he was gauging madara's abilities. Minato only knows of what madara can do from the legends, and clearly "madara" is immortal because he is still alive. He has no idea what "madara" is capable of in terms of jutsu and techniques, so he has to analyze. </p> </i></div>
<p>Minato knew dick all about A and his abilities and the 1st thing he did was go for the kill. He knew dick all about Bees abilities but he decided to taunt him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Like I said, kcm naruto should have been running circles around him if he is using his top speed... By your own logic he should have been able to blitz slap roshi, not trade blows. Why not blitz into his blind spot and wack him in the head with rasengan, then pull the rod out while roshi is stunned/injured? </p> </i></div>
<p>What blind spot? His vision was connected to 5 other people and when Naruto was in the middle of mercing him one of the other Edo-jin sucker punched him. In a one-on-one he would have beat them easy, but the environment+their shared vision prevented that from happening. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>My point about sasuke and naruto is that it debunks the claim that the characters always use their top speed. Sasuke is completely irrelevant if naruto's goal is to use his absolute top speed. Forget amaterasu, leave sasuke in the dust, and charge at juubito with the rasenshuriken using his "yellow flash speed" Clearly, there are circumstances where the characters opt not to use their top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>It wasnt his goal to use his top speed at that time. His goal was to cooporate and communicate with Sasuke </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As for handsigns, I can easily debunk this. Chapter 332 pg 11. We know for a fact Doton: domu requires at least one earth style handsign, yet he activates it with no shown handsign. Fast forward, and when the plot required it, we can see his hand seals when kakashi is watching him use it to protect himself from choji's attack. The characters can weave seals really fast and it's not always shown for cinematic purposes. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not debunked. It was explained on page 333 that he is fast enough that it typically cant be seen. </p><p>Ch 308 p5: Sasuke activated Chidori Nagashi while Naruto held one hand </p><p>Ch 308 p 7: Sasuke flows Chidori into his sword while holding said sword </p><p>Ch 348 p12: Kakashi activates Chidori with no hand signs </p><p>Ch 358 p5: Sasuke activates Chidori and then used Sharp Spear while holding his sword in one hand. </p><p>Ch 411 p17: B channels lightning chakra into his sword while holding 7 other swords </p><p>Ch 412 p3: Sasuke activates Chidori without even lifting his hand from the ground </p><p>A's Lightning armor doesnt even use handsigns. The series has made made it chlear that Chidori/Raikiri can be done without hand signs and implies that a variety of lightning jutsu dont beed hand signs. </p><p>There are more insances but im honestly bored of scanning damn near the whole manga to find it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Furthermore, it's a piercing move. Piercing moves benefit from increased speed to ensure you stab through your opponent for a certain kill. But without a sharingan, if your opponent reacts your screwed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Punches, tackles, slashes etc etc, 90% of moves benefit from speed, Chidori is not special </p><p>I dont know how many times i have to say this but Chidori is shown capable of piercing just about whatever without running. The series has never said the speed increases its peircing power and has never shown less peircing power without a run. </p><p>The only thing i recall the series stating about the purpose of the speed is that it is to try to completely bypass reaction time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>There is no evidence that sasuke is as fast as v1 ay. They both charged at each other and sasuke used his sharingan for combat speed to dodge the elbow. Ayy tanked chidori so that he could then transition into a body slam, because sasuke's hand was lodged into his body. </p> </i></div>
<p>They were legit swapping hands and A didnt start dominating Sasuke until going V2. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Want more proof the characters don't use their top speed always? Killer bee shunshined across a mountain when he attempted to escape and jugo didn't even notice. yet the whole rest of time they were fighting bee wasn't "running circles" around them, proving my point that using your top speed isn't always applicable in the heat of battle. </p> </i></div>
<p>Bee wasnt taking them seriously. If he was he would have started his fight with his Bijuu abilities. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Not quite, Obito predicted the slash(MS) and knew he should counter after he used Kamui intangibility, with Kamui warping. All he had to do was reach out his hand and time the grab(closing his hand). Which he could gauge before since he knows Minato. There is no foot-speed involved. </p> </i></div>
<p>Predicted? The series established that the Sharingan is useless if the the user is too slow to react properly to an opponant back in the Chunnin Exams arc. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>My point was that Minato was gauging Kamui then. </p> </i></div>
<p>He had already analyzed Kamui after his hand slipped through Obito. </p><p>If he wanted to guage Kamui he would throw things at him or use a shadow clone, not run face first and then get cought off guard. If those chains were like barbed wire or razor wire or if Obito decided to crush his throat he would be dead. </p>

<p>@Legion </p><p>It was preempted. Obito knew what Minato would do, all he had to do was to time the counterattack. It's not the same as reaction or first time combat. </p><p>On gauging Kamui the second time, no the first time he reacted to it. The second time was the analysis. Minato has no idea of this technique. The second instance was most likely to determine that Obito needs to materialize to interact, as with the chain. </p><p>Really? Minato would be dead from barbed wire? No man. Obito would have just phased through anything Minato threw at him, shadow clones require hand signs, which Minato does not prefer in combat. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Legion </p><p>It was preempted. Obito knew what Minato would do, all he had to do was to time the counterattack. It's not the same as reaction or first time combat. </p> </i></div>
<p>Obito was going for a warp. Which is why he came up behind Minato just like he does with 90% of his opponants. </p><p>In order to properly time grabbing Minato, especially they was he cought him, he needs the necessary reaction time. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>On gauging Kamui the second time, no the first time he reacted to it. The second time was the analysis. Minato has no idea of this technique. The second instance was most likely to determine that Obito needs to materialize to interact, as with the chain. </p> </i></div>
<p>He didnt just react after the 1st time. He sat there and basically narrated what Obito did. Noting that Obito solidified to to catch him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Obito would have just phased through anything Minato threw at him, </p> </i></div>
<p>Thats the point. This is the sensible and safe way to gauge Kamui, if thats what he was doing, but instead he was shocked he slipped through him and he wouldnt have got cought in the chains </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>shadow clones require hand signs, which Minato does not prefer in combat. </p> </i></div>
<p>He prefers notnto have to use signs but he doesnt have a problem using them when it benefits him. He used a shadow clone in 4SWW, he used them for the summoning jutsu, when he FTGed Kurama's TBB, and for Reaper Death Seal. </p>

<p>@Legion </p><p>It's not reaction when you know exactly what your opponent is gonna do, plan a counter and time it perfectly. Knowing is half the battle. </p><p>The second instance, Minato needed to confirm his hypothesis. He needed confirmation to determine when to strike. </p><p>Flinging projectiles while Obito phases through all the time is effective? No. Minato needed to land a physical hit to win. So, he needed to figure out when/if Obito would solidify and work around that. Minato wouldn't learn about that by just throwing projectiles. </p><p>Minato prefers to use hand-signs when not in combat. 4SWW? Minato weaved a sign for shadow clone outside of combat, which he then teleported for FTG slash. FTG Kuama's TBB? Good point there, although Minato did not actually engage Kurama yet, so is that really combat? Reaper Death Seal? Kurama was already restrained then, so not combat. </p><p>LOL, I think we went off topic here. Back on topic now? </p>

<p>@LegionZero, Those hand sign instances you sighted can be debunked because I can simply argue the signs were too fast to be seen just like you are claiming, and just like I already said in my previous. The writer doesn't always show them for cinematic purposes unless it's needed for the plot. Kakashi can follow kakazu's signs and we see a snapshot of kakazu's seal so that the reader can see Domu requires earth style seals. In the sasuke vs deidara instance, sasuke could have easily placed his sword in his armpit before casting the seals. Sasuke could have moved his hand and then placed it back on the ground. Killer bee wasn't stated to require handsigns for his lightning release technique though. Lol no, in a boxing or karate match victory is on the line. The fighters don't always use their top speed because that's not how a fight works. They close the distance between each other, or run away to avoid dangerous combos, but other than that, the emphasis is mostly on combat speed. </p><p>Obito kept up in combat speed due to sharingan, incredible reflexes, and kamui, and knowledge on minato's abilities, nothing more nothing less. Nothing says he was as fast in running speed. FTG level 2 is minato's fastest attack. The kunai was directly above obito. FTG is instant. All minato had to do was slightly adjust his arm and then obito was easily tagged by his rasengan. Minato's top running speed is slower than his FTG. As Ninja of War already explained, it's impossible for minato to have analyzed kamui the first time aroundbecause he was clearly suprised by it. He simply observed, and that was the begininning of his analysis During round 2, Minato was analyzing kamui and obito's fighting style. The proof is on Chapter 502 pg 13, Minato confirms obito's fighting style and he is confident in how kamui works enough to reveal his FTG level 2 trump card. Refer to that user's post, because they explained it perfectly. There is no guarantee obito wouldn't sense minato's top running speed.. We have seen obito reacting to attacks coming into his blindspots multiple times, he clearly has good situational awareness and he has two ears to hear objects coming near him. The second he hears something sus he can phase in an instant. It would be stupid for minato to use his regular running speed to combat such an ability, which is why the second he understood how obito operates, he used FTG level 2 to guarantee he tags obito. </p><p>Lmao what? OBito wasn't screwing around. Project Tsykuyomi was on the line. Chapter 595 pg 10, Obito says to Guy "I'll start with you". Guy stalemated him in CQC, fair and square. Obito wasn't zipping around him because he is not as fast as you think he is. Why throw shurikens at him when he can rofl blitz guy according to you on Chapter 595 pg 9. Let Guy come in close then run a circle around him into his blindspot and warp him away. Obito was stated to be capable of defeating anyone of them with a single touch lmao. Even if Obito is significantly faster than guy, The characters don't always use their top speed. Therefore you don't have any solid evidence that obito is as fast minato. In fact, the fact that obito is always impressed by minato's bodyflicker (such as when minato rescued naruto before obito can stab the baby naruto, minato using his body flicker after warping to kushina and running on top of a nearby tree to avoid kurama's palm) would suggest he isn't as fast as minato. </p><p>So you concede that naruto doesn't always use his top speed in a serious battle. He felt the combination attack with sasuke was worth more than using his top speed, which is the whole point. You can't just say that the characters always use their top speed 24/7 unless you can be sure of their mindset and all the other variables involved, aka PHYSICS and TUNNEL VISION. </p><p>Lol no, who cares that the other jins can see him. The point is, if kcm naruto uses his top speed, roshi can't react to him, and neither can any of the other jins. It doesn't matter that they have shared vision. the characters don't always use their top speed. We see naruto using his top speed to slap away bijuu damas that would have vaporized both guy and kakashi. he used his top speed there because bijuu damas can't "counter attack" like people can, so there was no risk, and when he uses that speed the characters always compare his running speed to the yellow flash's running speed. </p><p>Lol, even after killer bee cleared the forest, naruto wasn't seen using his top speed. We see him opting to block attacks instead of "running circles" like you are claiming would happen if there is a huge speed difference. Like I said, be consistent. Either concede he doesn't always use his top speed or then you are arguing all those V2 jins are as fast as kcm naruto, and by extension, 6 gates guy is as fast as kakashi and they are both as fast as kcm naruto. </p><p>Lol. obito wasn't running circles against Fuu and torune, therefore by your logic Fuu and torune are as fast as minato lmao. Obito punked them by doing what he always does, phase through attacks, and then materializing to counter attack. He sneaked up on insect boy from behind and warped him away. He used a feint to disract mind transfer boy and then warped him away by coming out of the ground. </p><p>Also, not how tunnel vision works. When running, objects in front of you get bigger as you get closer but your peripheral vision gets weaker the faster you run and the longer you run for at that speed the harder it is to see stuff right in front of you. The sharingan increases visual acuity. Raiton armor increases your reflexes, which means your synapses are processing visual information more efficently, also sage mode presumably increases danger sensing, so even if you can't see the attack it's easier for you to be aware that a counter attack is coming. Minato is a literal speed demon. Even for his reflexes, running at his absolute top speed would still cause tunnel vision, because he lacks a sharingan, raiton armor, or sage mode danger sensing. Minato would only risk that if he confident his opponent wouldn't be able to react effectively, and if his opponent blocks it, that isn't too bad because then it becomes a battle of taijutsu skill and combat speed. but if they actually counter attack him, he could be dead. There is no reason for him to risk that against an oppponet he knows can phase, and all that's waiting for minato are chains ready to grab him so that obito can warp him away. </p><p>Minato vs raikage and bee? When did minato ever use his running speed in that fight lol? He used FTG the whole time. V1 ayy wasn't necesaarily using his top speed against sasuke there, so debunked. </p><p>Obito vs kabuto Chapter 489 pg 18-19. Where is obito's yellow flash speed? With that speed he would be able to blitz base kabuto with ease since according to you the characters use their top speed to blitz always. kabuto wouldn't have even had time to weave a single hand seal with that speed coming at him. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: @Legion </p><p>It's not reaction when you know exactly what your opponent is gonna do, plan a counter and time it perfectly. Knowing is half the battle. </p> </i></div>
<p>When/where was it stated that Obito planned on wasting time by having Minato take a swing at him while he snuck up behind him to warp him away with Kamui? When has Obito EVER made it a part of his plan to get cought sneaking up behind an enemy to warp them away? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>The second instance, Minato needed to confirm his hypothesis. He needed confirmation to determine when to strike. </p> </i></div>
<p>And he could have done so by throwing a kunai or using a shadow clone instead of putting humself in unnecessary danger. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Flinging projectiles while Obito phases through all the time is effective? No. Minato needed to land a physical hit to win. So, he needed to figure out when/if Obito would solidify and work around that. Minato wouldn't learn about that by just throwing projectiles. </p> </i></div>
<p>Shadow clone. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Minato prefers to use hand-signs when not in combat. 4SWW? Minato weaved a sign for shadow clone outside of combat, which he then teleported for FTG slash. </p> </i></div>
<p>It was war. They were in the middle of the battlefield and made a shadow clone to take part in combat. He wasnt in the middle of a fight but Minato had time to cast a shadow clone to test Obito since they werent engaging in hand-to-hand. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>FTG Kuama's TBB? Good point there, although Minato did not actually engage Kurama yet, so is that really combat? </p> </i></div>
<p>Really? Minato making the 1st move to confront Kurama and his attack isnt engaging him? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>Reaper Death Seal? Kurama was already restrained then, so not combat. </p> </i></div>
<p>Tell that to the fatal injury he sustained 5 seconds after casting it. The battle wasnt over since Kushina was barely concsious and struggling to hold Kurama back. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Ninja Of War wrote: </p><p>LOL, I think we went off topic here. Back on topic now? </p> </i></div>
<p>O yes. Kakashi called Chidori fast and Minato says it makes him fast in chapter 240 so that should be the end of the discussion. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: @LegionZero, Those hand sign instances you sighted can be debunked because I can simply argue the signs were too fast to be seen just like you are claiming, and just like I already said in my previous. The writer doesn't always show them for cinematic purposes unless it's needed for the plot. </p> </i></div>
<p>Absolutely not. If it wasnt stated/shown to have happened then it didnt happen. </p><p>The manga has shown that a user can reduce or even eliminate the need for hand signs for a technique if they are skilled enough in using it. </p><p>It has also shown that characters who are low on chakra need hand signs to perform jutsu they otherwise wouldnt need signs for. </p><p>There are very few times in the series where no signs are shown without a character explaining they are just super fast at it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>In the sasuke vs deidara instance, sasuke could have easily placed his sword in his armpit before casting the seals. Sasuke could have moved his hand and then placed it back on the ground. Killer bee wasn't stated to require handsigns for his lightning release technique though. </p> </i></div>
<p>So Sasuke went from a vulnerable position to upright so that he could weave signs so that he could lay back down in a vulnerable position to activate Chidori to get back upright to flow it into the sword while Bee who was already shown to be faster than Sasuke was cutting through said sword to kill him.... right.... </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito kept up in combat speed due to sharingan, incredible reflexes, and kamui, and knowledge on minato's abilities, nothing more nothing less. Nothing says he was as fast in running speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>You say nothing more nothing less but Obito was able to tag Minato using combat speed twice and Minato wasnt shown to move faster than Obito at any point in the fight. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>As Ninja of War already explained, it's impossible for minato to have analyzed kamui the first time aroundbecause he was clearly suprised by it. He simply observed, and that was the begininning of his analysis. </p> </i></div>
<p>Simply observed? His breakdown was literally written on the page. If Kakashi can figure out Domu after one look and figure out what he needs to do to beat it then Minato can do the same. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>During round 2, Minato was analyzing kamui and obito's fighting style. The proof is on Chapter 502 pg 13, Minato confirms obito's fighting style and he is confident in how kamui works enough to reveal his FTG level 2 trump card. </p> </i></div>
<p>If round 2 was about analysis he wouldnt have rushed in himself and then let himself get cought in the chains. He has at least 3 safer and even more effective options if his goal was just analysis. </p><p>He thought he was fast enough to get the kill and he was wrong. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Lmao what? OBito wasn't screwing around. Project Tsykuyomi was on the line. </p> </i></div>
<p>Obito was screwing around. He was also fighting all 4 of them for next like, 8 chapters with 0 struggle. Even if his plan was "on the line", he was fighting the strongest the Alliance had to offer and he was handling them all by himself with little effort. </p><p>Ch 473 p 3: after Seeing Naruto use TBB and TBM, Obito states than Naruto is nothing more than a pawn to him and that he knows the limits of his power and that he wouldnt break a sweat against him. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Chapter 595 pg 10, Obito says to Guy "I'll start with you". Guy stalemated him in CQC, fair and square. </p> </i></div>
<p>Stalemate? Guy got one good counter in before Naruto intervened. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito wasn't zipping around him because he is not as fast as you think he is. Why throw shurikens at him when he can rofl blitz guy according to you on Chapter 595 pg 9. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because he needed to put a bit of distance between himself and Naruto who was holding a mini-TBB right behind him. He was also mid-air. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Let Guy come in close then run a circle around him into his blindspot and warp him away. </p> </i></div>
<p>Because Naruto was right there with a mini-TBB </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito was stated to be capable of defeating anyone of them with a single touch lmao. Even if Obito is significantly faster than guy, The characters don't always use their top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>You keep referring to this like its a 1-v-1 but Obito has to make sure hes not leaving himself open to an attack from 3 other characters. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>In fact, the fact that obito is always impressed by minato's bodyflicker (such as when minato rescued naruto before obito can stab the baby naruto, minato using his body flicker after warping to kushina and running on top of a nearby tree to avoid kurama's palm) would suggest he isn't as fast as minato. </p> </i></div>
<p>Being impressed=/=inferiority. If so, then Sasuke surpassed Kakashi in the bell test and surpassed Guy in the Chunnin exams. </p><p>Minato rescued Kushina from Kurama and impressed Obito but could body flicker before getting hit by Obito's chain. HMMMMM </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>So you concede that naruto doesn't always use his top speed in a serious battle. He felt the combination attack with sasuke was worth more than using his top speed, which is the whole point. You can't just say that the characters always use their top speed 24/7 unless you can be sure of their mindset and all the other variables involved, aka PHYSICS and TUNNEL VISION. </p> </i></div>
<p>I dont understand this argument. So because Naruto had to lower his speed in this specific instance in order to cooporate and strategize with a character who is slower than him against an enemy with almost totally unknown powrrs means that Minato who had already seen Obito's abilities wasnt using his top speed? </p><p>Worst decontextualization i have seen all month. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Lol no, who cares that the other jins can see him. The point is, if kcm naruto uses his top speed, roshi can't react to him, and neither can any of the other jins. It doesn't matter that they have shared vision. the characters don't always use their top speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>Clearly not. He showed no problem dodging and countering them 1-on-1 but when they ganged up on him he got rocked. </p><p>Even Minato got tagged by Bee because Bee took advantage of his outside perspective and being out of Minato's line of sight so dont even act like speed is enough to handle multiple opponents under the circumstances Naruto was presented with. </p><p>Kaguya got tagged by Sakura of all people because she got ganged up on by characters who were all slower than her. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>We see naruto using his top speed to slap away bijuu damas that would have vaporized both guy and kakashi. he used his top speed there because bijuu damas can't "counter attack" like people can, so there was no risk, and when he uses that speed the characters always compare his running speed to the yellow flash's running speed. </p> </i></div>
<p>There were only 7 characters who could have attacked him in that moment but whatever. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Lol, even after killer bee cleared the forest, naruto wasn't seen using his top speed. We see him opting to block attacks instead of "running circles" like you are claiming would happen if there is a huge speed difference. Like I said, be consistent. Either concede he doesn't always use his top speed or then you are arguing all those V2 jins are as fast as kcm naruto, and by extension, 6 gates guy is as fast as kakashi and they are both as fast as kcm naruto. </p> </i></div>
<p>I suggest you read that again. The 1st thing that happened after clearly in the forest was Narutogetting knocked off balance then smacked around before he could regain his footing. </p><p>Then Obito comments about how 2-v-6 was too much of a disadvantage for Naruto and Bee. The manga right here confirms it wasnt the stats that put Naruto at a disadvantage. </p><p>I really dont know why Guy you bringing up Guy and Kakashi's speed here.. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Lol. obito wasn't running circles against Fuu and torune, therefore by your logic Fuu and torune are as fast as minato lmao. Obito punked them by doing what he always does, phase through attacks, and then materializing to counter attack. He sneaked up on insect boy from behind and warped him away. He used a feint to disract mind transfer boy and then warped him away by coming out of the ground. </p> </i></div>
<p>Why would he need to run circles around them? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Also, not how tunnel vision works. </p> </i></div>
<p>Apparently thats how it works in Naruto considering characters who have achieved their speed through training can reach speeds far above real life human perceptions and be just fine. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Minato is a literal speed demon. Even for his reflexes, running at his absolute top speed would still cause tunnel vision, </p> </i></div>
<p>Until the manga states that he has this problem then this is your headcanon. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>
Minato vs raikage and bee? When did minato ever use his running speed in that fight lol? He used FTG the whole time. </p> </i></div>
<p>I didnt say he used his running speed. My point i was trying to make was that he did t know anything about their abilities and went straight for kills/checkmates. No reason to believe it was different after he had already seen Obito's phasing ability, especially since he went in for an attack himself rather than using safer, more effective methods to test/analyze/observe/guage Obito. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>V1 ayy wasn't necesaarily using his top speed against sasuke there, so debunked. </p> </i></div>
<p>Then he wouldnt have bothered using V2... </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>CombatIQmatters wrote: </p><p>Obito vs kabuto Chapter 489 pg 18-19. Where is obito's yellow flash speed? With that speed he would be able to blitz base kabuto with ease since according to you the characters use their top speed to blitz always. kabuto wouldn't have even had time to weave a single hand seal with that speed coming at him. </p> </i></div>
<p>That wasnt a fight. Obito was shown to have traveled much further than Kabuto had so we already know he is faster. He didnt know about Kabuto's upgrades so its very likely he underestimated him and once Kabuto started using Edo Tensei, killing him would have been a bad idea. </p>

<p>True, Obito's good but he's not 'taking on a literal army of reanimated ninja that also includes Madara Uchiha' good. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>When/where was it stated that Obito planned on wasting time by having Minato take a swing at him while he snuck up behind him to warp him away with Kamui? When has Obito EVER made it a part of his plan to get cought sneaking up behind an enemy to warp them away? </p> </i></div>
<p>You can't seg-way out of Obito's preferred method of combat. Obito didn't waste time, he counterattacked at the correct moment. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>And he could have done so by throwing a kunai or using a shadow clone instead of putting humself in unnecessary danger. </p> </i></div>
<p>How though? Obito wouldn't fight the clone, he would just remain intangible. Also, not in character for Minato. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>Shadow clone. </p> </i></div>
<p>Not in character for Minato. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>It was war. They were in the middle of the battlefield and made a shadow clone to take part in combat. He wasnt in the middle of a fight but Minato had time to cast a shadow clone to test Obito since they werent engaging in hand-to-hand. </p> </i></div>
<p>Still not combat. Minato and the other hokage erected a barrier to contain the ten-tails, Minato himself was outside the barrier. He was definitely not in combat. Had time to cast the clone? Of course he did, Obito was far away, while his sealing jutsu was taking time to cast. Lol, don't understand, don't think you have a point here. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>Really? Minato making the 1st move to confront Kurama and his attack isnt engaging him? </p> </i></div>
<p>No, Kurama fired a TTB at Minato, that was the first move lol. Also, Minato didn't confront Kurama, he warped the TBB away from the village, how is that engaging him?? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>Tell that to the fatal injury he sustained 5 seconds after casting it. The battle wasnt over since Kushina was barely concsious and struggling to hold Kurama back. </p> </i></div>
<p>Sigh. Now you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Kurama was restrained, Kurama decreased in size, chains loosened, Kushina and Minato protected Naruto. Kurama didn't break free, he could just move a little better. LoL, "the battle wasn't over because Kushina was dying from tailed beast extraction", what kind of argument is that?? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>LegionZero wrote: </p><p>O yes. Kakashi called Chidori fast and Minato says it makes him fast in chapter 240 so that should be the end of the discussion. </p> </i></div>
<p>ch240, Minato calls kakashi's movements fast. So yeah, let's end it there. </p>

I somehow doubt this is going to end here but it's good to have dreams.