<div class="quote"><i> <p>Elveonora wrote: And natural energy is everywhere, not just on Earth, it's literally the energy from the 'aether' </p> </i></div>
<p>I thought it was actual energy (e.g. energy from the sun and heat and what not). Or do you mean that absorbing Nature energy never seems to do anything to nature, hence it's more like Aether? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Mrsunrider wrote: That aside, senjutsu chakra couldn't exist without chakra (as the term itself implies), but senjutsu itself could, surely? I mean, that's basically how Naruto mastered sennin mode--independent of chakra usage, right?then. </p> </i></div>
<p>I think Senjutsu is just the art of using senjutsu chakra. Sage Mode does involve manipulating pure nature energy, so it's possible that some sort of proto-senjutsu exists which only manipulates nature energy. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Mrsunrider wrote: And then there's nature energy, which appears to have been the other form of energy native to the Shinobi World (alongside stamina). I wonder if the presence of the Divine tree interrupted what would have been an inevitable adoption of nature energy? Had the Otsutsuki clan never visited, perhaps senjutsu might be the norm? </p> </i></div>
<p>Seems probable, yes. Could even be that that's where the Shinju comes from, from Otsutsuki nature energy experiments. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Mrsunrider wrote: So, I guess in a way, the tree and fruits are fed stamina (which in turn is molded into chakra)? </p> </i></div>
<p>Yes, though we've been told various accounts of the nature of chakra, which could or could not be contradictory. I think that the tree fed on physical, spiritual and nature energy to create it's own chakra. Physical energy from the blood of the fallen, spiritual energy from the spirits of the fallen and nature energy from the surroundings. Spirits appear to have infinite chakra, implying that they are also a source of that power. </p><p>In other words, chakra is the power of life (blood) and the afterlife (souls), hence the whole bhuddist reincarnation thing. </p>

<p>@Kill, same thing, natural energy is the energy of the sun, nature etc. pretty much it seems to be just that, energy, taken from outside source. </p>

<p>Shouldn't the Divine Tree from Naruto's world be over at least 2 millennium? I remember them stating it was forbidden to consume the Fruit and that would only bloom once every 1000 years. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Littlegen wrote: Shouldn't the Divine Tree from Naruto's world be over at least 2 millennium? I remember them stating it was forbidden to consume the Fruit and that would only bloom once every 1000 years. </p> </i></div>
<p>We don't really know. It's been 1000 years since Kaguya, but other than that we have no specific timelines. </p>

<p>everything in naruto is contradictory, an example would be that the source material says that chakra came from the fruit of the shinju and that kaguya ate the shinju fruit and her sons gained chakra, and than her son hagoromo spread chakra around. yet it also states that every life form already possesses chakra in its individual parts, Physical and Spiritual energy. so based on this contradiction its safe to assume that chakra didn't actually originate from the fruit. its simply that the fruit grants those who eat of it the ability to merge the energies already present in there bodies </p>

<p>Nah, no, it's not contradictory. Everyone possessing chakra was clearly referring to modern day, not the pre-Kaguya past. </p>

Chakra and Earth... how did Hagoromo give its residents Chakra?

<p>@Littlegen Wasn't it literally stated that Hagoromo spread chakra among people using Ninshu? We don't know much about what Ninshu actually is, but, apparently(I think Kurama said this), it's similar to what Naruto did with Kurama's chakra in the war when he gave everyone chakra cloaks. It's something to note that, even after they were drained, the chakra he gave them didn't fully vanish, instead falling dormant and able to be rekindled. If they didn't already have chakra of their own, the results probably would've been something similar to what Hagoromo did when initially giving humanity chakra. </p>

<p>So if chakra is an essential connection to the spirit and afterlife, maybe it's the case that while the Divine Tree could have been considered an invasive element, perhaps chakra is a naturally (or supernaturally) occurring phenomenon, that the Otsutsuki clan discovered and learned to cultivate? </p><p>In the way <i>we</i> might seem supernatural to any pre-renaissance civilizations in our use of nuclear power, the Otsutsuki managed to detect and harness spiritual power (chakra) and maybe the Divine Tree is a technology for that purpose. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Actionmanrandell wrote: yet it also states that every life form already possesses chakra in its individual parts, Physical and Spiritual energy. </p> </i></div>
<p>Everyone has spiritual and physical energy because they have a body and brain. There's nothing mystical about it. What hagoromo gave was some sort of spiritual component of chakra, something that would allow people to communicate on a deeper level than mere words. However, people used that power to bind their inner energies and form normal chakra instead. </p><p>Kishimoto uses the word "chakra" for a lot of things that are obviously not the same. From the chakra of the fruit (a finite supply of power that can be spread and recovered) to the chakra of people (a supply that regenerates but isn't lost) to the chakra of beasts (solid and flesh-like, self-regenerating). This makes it that there are many apparent contradictions, but closer inspection often reveals it's just inconsistent terminology. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>321Z3R0 wrote: @Littlegen Wasn't it literally stated that Hagoromo spread chakra among people using Ninshu? </p> </i></div>
<p>Yes, though the nature of this chakra makes it clear that it's not normal chakra. For one, people kept this gift and could pass it on through the ages. Yet normal chakra cannot do this. So what Hagoromo gave was more akin to a spirit or essence (similar to Biju essence in that regard), than regular chakra. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Mrsunrider wrote: perhaps chakra is a naturally (or supernaturally) occurring phenomenon, that the Otsutsuki clan discovered and learned to cultivate? </p> </i></div>
<p>The ingredients of chakra are everywhere. Nature energy is a normal phenomenon. Spiritual energy is simply the power of the mind and it's thoughts, experiences etc. Physical energy is simply generated by cells, their strength, chemical energy etc. Some sort of supernatural power from the Shinju allows binding these together into chakra (a substance with both physical and spiritual properties). However the Shinju is also a real, physical thing. So yes, chakra could've occurred naturally in some way. It didn't in the shinobi world, but it could've. </p>