All posts by Rage gtx

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Bikingbi wrote: There is another member of Uzumaki survives. If you guys notice it is Karin ( the girl on Sasuke' team). Orochimaru once mention she is an Uzumaki clan member (red hair). </p> </i></div>
<p>You don't say?!*Nicolas Cage face* </p><p>Also what do you think about Nagato? </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: Oh? So, why didn't Sasuke have the same large levels of chakra as Madara then? If they are both Indra's incarnates then by that logic they all should have the same chakra levels, right? </p><p>And you telling me to read manga better when you started this argument because you misunderstood Hashirama's manga statement is quite rich. I'd also advise you to stop with the brute rhetoric. I admitted to making a mistakes in judgement in the duration of this debate and I apologized for it. You can take your condescending attitude elsewhere. </p><p>Hashirama takes this with high difficulty. </p> </i></div>
<p>What is Madara "large levels" where did you find them? Marada's Sasuke's and Uchiha's chakra in general was called strong, evil, prominent, malicious - it was never was called large and never was, existence of Sunanoo itself proves that one does not need big reserves to have big jutsu. </p><p>Are arguing in pure statement which is literal Hashirama stated for one to share chakra with entire SA(several dozens of thousand people) one must have comparable to his chakra levels. Kurama explained that Naruto gave everyone his chakra(already fulfilling Hashirama's logical requirement) which worked as mediator. </p><p>I do not use brute rhetoric - and I advise you stop trying to act as mod here, you were give undeniable manga facts which you are still denying and that makes you biased. If you unable to follow normal conversation without moving goal posts then just stop. </p><p>Hashirama loses. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: Yes, there was some chakra exchange thing that I missed. I apologize. </p><p>But still, he did use Nine Tails' Chakra not his own chakra as you said. I re-read that chapter once again and Gyuki said to him that as he used NT chakra, his own chakra would get sucked in, but he didn't specify the amount of chakra Kurama sucked in exchange for the amount of chakra he got from Kurama. 'Cause if Kurama would take in the same amount of chakra that Naruto would take from him, then considering Naruto's chakra is 4 times larger than Kakashi's while Kurama's chakra is 100folds more, Naruto would have died pretty early. </p><p>I butchered the math but I hope my point got across to you. </p><p>Also, I re-read Chapter 567 too, and Gyuki again deduced that Kurama had stopped absorbing Naruto's chakra at some point. He didn't specify when. However, it is heavily hinted by Kurama's flashback that he stopped absorbing his chakra after Naruto told him that he'd come for his hate one day, more specifically in Chapter 539 AFTER Naruto and Killer Bee had yet to fight edo Itachi and Nagato. So yeah, the chakra absorption had stopped long ago. And Bee himself said that Naruto would have died if he made so much clones using the same amount of chakra as his. </p><p>Seriously dude, if you want to see Naruto's potential without Kurama's chakra, look no further than his fight with Pain. He had no assistance from Nine-Tails there yet he couldn't make more than one or two clones asides from the ones he left in Myoboku to collect Natural energy, before ruining their balance. Why didn't he have that problem during the Fourth War after taking Kurama's chakra in? He could make half a dozen/a dozen clones with the capabilities to take down Kage-level edos, and he could use SM and Wind Release without breaking their balance. He was nowhere near Hashirama's chakra feats. </p> </i></div>
<p>You are too biased to conclude anything. Naruto won't die because again we don't know how much he does waste on justu castion - this same problem with Hashirama you are concluded he has bigger than Naruto chakra because of size justu he casts - which is utterly fallacious because we don't know thing about their chakra usage. So spare everyone's time and do not bother with "maths" at all. </p><p>I won't even address your bs about chapter 539 - it shows how sore orator you are. </p><p>And lastly Naruto everywhere near Hashirama feats because he is same frikin reincarnation of Ashura with same bloodline and with Kurama chakra he by far tops Hashirama feats. For the future learn how to read manga stop making weak excuses when you are pointed to facts it is not matter of belief. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: Kurama stopped draining Naruto's chakra much earlier than that </p> </i></div>
<p>Not much earlier, it was during or slightly prior that fight during Edo Jinchuriki, first sings Kurama shown at time Madara used Advent of a World of Flowering Trees, and at this time already rest of battle fields were dominated by Naruto and it was moments before jinchuriki fight. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: @Rage gtx </p><p>You keep talking about us checking facts but you haven't provided something resembling of a source yet, where as I just gave you manga proof that Naruto used Nine-Tails chakra at the start of the War something which you disputed. </p><p>Where did it say that Kurama takes some of Naruto's chakra in exchange for the one he gives to him? Sure, Naruto did experience harmful side-effects when using the out of control, TB forms in the past with the red cloaks, but he overcame that after he imprisoned Kurama with his Torii seal. He even said it himself in that one Chapter I linked you that Kurama was being kept in a separate section from him, meaning there was no way for Kurama to take his chakra. </p> </i></div>
<p>Man you need reread manga ASAP you missed huge chunks of lore: </p><p>Despite the passive abilities and enhancements he gains, Naruto's use of the Nine-Tails Chakra Mode is initially marked by limitations due to the Nine-Tails refusing to cooperate with him. This prevents him from using Tailed Beast Balls while in this form,[17] though he is eventually able to create miniature versions.[18] Because Naruto "shelves" his own chakra in this form and instead draws on the Nine-Tails', his early uses of it come with a risk that the Nine-Tails will take that shelved chakra, resulting in Naruto's death. Naruto must, therefore, be careful of how long he uses the form for and how many shadow clones he creates, as doing too many only increases the risk.[19] The Nine-Tails eventually stops trying to take Naruto's chakra,[20] and soon after that, starts cooperating, removing these limitations.[21] </p><p>from: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nine-Tails_Chakra_Mode </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Vladosaurus wrote: @Rage gtx Their chakra did not collide...you're like the only one who ever mentioned them colliding. </p> </i></div>
<p>It was collision Tobirama lifted finger and tried to use some harmful chakra on Sasuke but he was interrupted by Hashirama which caused cracks. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: lol If hashi's chakra lvls were the same as Naruto, he wouldn't have scared the whole team taka, along with the other three hokage, including tobirama himself, who almost made sasuke and orochimaru shit their pants by raising his chakra lvl to literal pinkie heights hahaha </p> </i></div>
<p>For the last time it chakra collision between two not only Hashirama's chakra. Also it's not like Naruto ever tried intimidate someone and it's not like Taka was scared the moment they saw Hashirama only when he actively used chakra. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: @Rage gtx </p><p>Not disputing that Naruto has large levels of chakra, but compared to Hashirama's they're like a fart in a hurricane. Kakashi estimated Naruto's chakra to be four times larger than his reserves, and 200 times larger when counting the Kyuubi. So, it makes sense that Naruto can use Multiple Shadow Clones even by his own chakra reserves since the Multiple Shadow Clone jutsu does not require any sort of precise chakra control to pull off. </p><p>And what do you mean didn't access Kurama's chakra until after the first half of the war? The entire point of the Torii seal was so Naruto could access Kurama's chakra with ease. He pulled out a huge chunk of Kurama's chakra as soon as the Torii seal was established [1] so your point is moot. </p><p>And my earlier reference did not defeat my whole point. You just got a differen understanding of it from mine. </p><p>Also, could you cool it with the rhetoric? I am being frustrated that I'm having this debate right now, but I have yet to devolve into calling you or anyone else "cognitively challenged". </p> </i></div>
<p>Just like guy that posted before you, you need check you facts - what you mean fart in hurricane? Do you have any factual proof that Hashirama incomparable more chakra than Naruto? Also what you mean control over Multiple Shadow Clones - it's kinjutsu because it drains chakra and kills user did you even read manga? </p><p>And then you surprised why I ask about cognitive ability(although I did not ask you but Vladosaurus) Naruto seal was blocked at chunin exam. At war he used his own chakra because that's the way using Biju chakra works - when Naruto uses Fox chakra, Fox takes equal amount of Naruto chakra, also if Shadow clone used chakra drain is multiplied by number of clones - now count how much Naruto clones in 9TCM there were in 4th.... Kurama only stopped draining Naruto during fight with Son Goku when rest(minus Gokage vs Madara) of 4th war fights were already done with Naruto's help. </p>

<p>@Vladosaurus check you facts man before calling something ridiculous. We don't even know how chakra taxing these techniques were but somehow you ignore that Madara who can use PS which in comparable size while having less chakra than Hashirama. And about 4FRS it was when Kurama were not allowing amphibian technique - after 4 frs SM wears off not Naruto chakra exhausts he still has shitton of chakra left, I really suggest you to reread manga you missed out some key points here and there. </p>

<p>@Mr. Grave Man your own reference defeats your whole point. Read what Hashirama said "Sharing chakra with every shinobi in alliance = Having same chakra as Hashirama" Do you argue that Naruto did it? Because Kurama described whole process in details. So here we are from Hashirama own words: Having enough chakra to give every shinobi is his chakra level. Mixing in Fox chakra is something that surprises even him. Your problem is that you think is Naruto level chakra is something low where as even at chininshiken at age 12 with blocked seal(Fox chakra not mixing in) by Orochimaru he still was able to use Multiple Shadow Clone Technique chakra taxing kinjutsu. And considering that firs half of 4th war he used his own chakra even while in 9TCM, it's perfectly fine that Naruto has comparable to Hashirama chakra level. </p><p>@Vladosaurus sorry no offense but do you have cognitive problems - the only logic way from Hashirama own words is that they have comparable levels of chakra, just because you don't like it does not become illogical. And also crackings were from his and Tobirama chakra collision not from his chakra alone, so you need to conclude that Tobirama also has this much chakra(wich is known not to be true) otherwise your point is moot. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: @Rage gtx The guy himself confirms it. When Naruto is distributing his chakra to everyone, he says "Wow, he almost has as much chakra as me." </p><p>I understand if you're not OK with it, but this is canon so it doesn't fall under the "outright bullshit" category. </p> </i></div>
<p>And I already posted about the matter right here in thread. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Rage gtx wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>Vladosaurus wrote: @Yuoh03 Actually, he said that Naruto with Kurama (half) had almost as much chakra as him. So Hashirama had more than him. </p> </i></div>
<p>He did not he said that Naruto sharing(Naruto's own) chakra with SA must have same chakra volume as himself second later he got astonished by fact there was Fox chakra also. By the way sharing works Naruto(without Fox) having same chakra volume as Hashirama is given fact. </p> </div> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Rage gtx wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: how was he supposed to know whose chakra was whose? they chakras were merged at the time, so he couldn't say with certainty that said chakra was higher than his. for all we, as in everybody, know, he didn't even know that he was talking bout kurama's chakra as well. </p> </i></div>
<p>Umm what? Hashirama just said - giving chakra to entire SA is same chakra level as himself. <i>Naruto gave his chakra to every shinobi in SA</i>. His chakra was mediator(only Naruto chakra can be mediator) between SA members and Fox chakra - so Naruto by his own chakra alone is comparable to Hashirama. </p> </div> <p>Problem is not what "guy" himself confirmed, but what you understood from it. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Mr. Grave wrote: Hashirama has more chakra than Naruto with half of Kurama sealed in him. </p> </i></div>
<p>No offense man but that's outright bullshit. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: how was he supposed to know whose chakra was whose? they chakras were merged at the time, so he couldn't say with certainty that said chakra was higher than his. for all we, as in everybody, know, he didn't even know that he was talking bout kurama's chakra as well. </p> </i></div>
<p>Umm what? Hashirama just said - giving chakra to entire SA is same chakra level as himself. <i>Naruto gave his chakra to every shinobi in SA</i>. His chakra was mediator(only Naruto chakra can be mediator) between SA members and Fox chakra - so Naruto by his own chakra alone is comparable to Hashirama. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Vladosaurus wrote: @Yuoh03 Actually, he said that Naruto with Kurama (half) had almost as much chakra as him. So Hashirama had more than him. </p> </i></div>
<p>He did not he said that Naruto sharing(Naruto's own) chakra with SA must have same chakra volume as himself second later he got astonished by fact there was Fox chakra also. By the way sharing works Naruto(without Fox) having same chakra volume as Hashirama is given fact. </p>

Never thought about simple oversight from Author? As reason.

<p>So only cite is non-canon novel and wike self reference? Well then I don't agree it's safe to conclude that they no longer exist. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Thekillman wrote: There is no actual mention of them dying out, just that the Senju clan no longer exists. Which rules out extermination. </p><p>So, they probably got disbanded. </p> </i></div>
<p>Sorry for late response, but I don't remember at any point manga stating that clan no longer exists can you cite at least one occurrence, without it claim of whatever happened to Senju is baseless. </p>

<p>There even possibility of them living their ordinary life in Konoha without standing up too much. Considering there was no moment mentioning them like "You know your clan also died out.", when Hashirama and Tobirama spoke with Sasuke about Uchihas and their wipeout. But then again it may Kishi's usual bad writting. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: He also didn't use much jutsus after he was revived. Does that mean that those fire techniques use up a lot of chakra? </p> </i></div>
<p>It does actually, and he used fire techniques and used Susanoo only when was forced and then quickly dealth with them using limbo unlike playing around ET Madara. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> If Edos have unlimited chakra, then Edo Tobirama wouldn't have been concerned about chakra.</i></div>
<p>He would cause using Four red yang formation shaved off his max chakra until it was destroyed no matter how much ET is restores it would still burn away into sustaining force field. More if they were not ET one could argue that FRYF won't last this long. Madara never had anything that continuosly wasted his chakra so much but you can see that even with his clones he did not use Susanoo farther than normal humanoid form - wich not even MS limit it was same limitations and conidering he was ET no way real one could use this stunt as real fighting move. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> If Edos can't be tired, then Edo Minato wouldn't be breathing in exhaustion after transferring Yin-Kurama to Naruto.</i></div>
<p>Lol what do not made thing up. He was not exhausted - he was surprised by BZ still used Rasengan right away. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Edo Madara </i></div>
<p>-_- </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> All I see are baseless claims. Bring up feats to support your claims. We were referring to Alive Madara (you know, before he died in his battle against Hashirama?).</i></div>
<p>He aslo alive kicked Naruto, Sasuke SA and all Biju ass while using one Rinnegan without being TTJ, reread manga baseless claim my ass! </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> So you are going to ignore what was shown in the movie, which is canon? </i></div>
<p>No I just point out that CANON manga had it rather different way. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> I already mentioned a speed feat that VOTE 2 performed</i></div>
<p>Too bad there was none considering he was tottaly dominated by exhaused and unwilling to kill Naruto. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Reread the chapter, Madara was still flying when Sasuke caught up to him.</i></div>
<p>Madara was bisected by Sasuke when he was standing still invoking Kamui near Kakashi whose eye he took - he was not flying impact send him to air but we can see him standing near Kakashi frame before that. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Can he destroy one without Susanoo? I don't think so</i></div>
<p>Too bad for you he can, with means like: CT, Meteor or even Asura path. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> You're missing the point: the feat require a lot of chakra</i></div>
<p>And you missing point lot of Sasuke chakra is just drop for example Naruto. More so manga implies that Madara has more chakra due Hashirama implant...so don't get what you are trying to argue here exept for moving goalpost. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: I was referring to the his fights against Kinshiki and Momoshiki...... </p> </i></div>
<p>Yeah and Madara with 5 kage and Boruto would have beat them even better. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Based on absolutely nothing. You're such a hypocrite</i></div>
<p>lol what? Weren't their successors beating Kinshiki and Momoshiki also? - super feat you atributed to Sasuke just above? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> The pot calls the kettle black.</i></div>
<p>Well if you it that way, I suggest you reality check </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Well, I've realized that all you do is spew nonsense claims with no evidence whatsoever.</i></div>
<p>Ok, just don't turn this into personal. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: So , I'm not going to debate with you anymore </p> </i></div>
<p>Well have nice day! :) </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: Can you prove that making 25 woodclones using Susanoo takes a lot of chakra? Alive Madara was able to control Kurama with his Sharingan and armored him with his Susanoo. So I'd that would be in the same ballpark as forming PS </p> </i></div>
<p>Of course I can - he didn't so after res - when doing so was optimal choice to fight off Sasuke, Naruto and Sai and later Biju. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: They are completely two different things. If Edos have unlimited chakra, then they would be putting as much chakra into their techniques as they, yet we don't see that. In regards to Edo Madara, he did not outlast the 5 Kage, he completely outmatched them </p> </i></div>
<p>Nope there are not living Madara would not have wasted chakra so reckelessly cause it would not return to him so easily. Thing is ET can't be tired or weared off so saying that living Madara would have done same is farfetched bs. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: First of all, I was referring to the speed Sasuke has displayed in the videos, in which Madara has never shown and could only replicate while being a TTJ. Second of all, Alive Madara did not have a Rinnegan, only the EMS. Third of all, Sasuke receiving damage from Momoshiki is completely irrelevant. Fourth of all, no one is going by hype, so I don't know why you keep bringing up the word </p> </i></div>
<p>Sasuke never done anything that Rinnegan Madara for some could not replicate. Second dead people can't awaken Rinnegan so really don't get what about your bullshit "Alive Madara did not have a Rinnegan" is? And lastly showing some animations(where studio p take as much freedom as it wants) to prove Sasuke "unrepitable" feats show how hych hype train rider you are, why didn't show me VotE 2 Sasuke then from anime? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Sasuke has caught up to a speeding TTJ Madara and bisected him.</i></div>
<p>Correction caught up with standing still TTJ Madara and bisected him when he was Kamuing himself - more bothered with second Rinnegan. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Sasuke has destroyed a mountain-destroying asteroid, with nothing but a Chidori.</i></div>
<p>Lol Madara detroyed several mountains with his PS alone. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Sasuke has transported to Kaguya's dimensions with no aide and has transported to Momoshiki's dimension.</i></div>
<p>He said he can do cause of Rinnegan - any Rinnegan user can do it if they knew about place. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> Sasuke has been in fights, while using mostly taijutsu and very little ninjutsu, that caused the environment to shift.</i></div>
<p>Whait what... What this is about you mean his fight with Kaguya - where suckd miserably so much that - useless Sakura(his own words) needed to save him? Lok that's talent got making falures as feats. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: </p> These are not hype, they are feats of Sasuke's speed, power, and chakra. Going by these feats, he beats the 5 Kages handily. Feats are what people in versus debates mostly go off of, not hype</i></div>
<p>By feast 5 kage wipe floor with Sasuke - and each of them able to destroy mountain. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: Yeah, no. Sasuke is Nagato, with both Rinnegan and Sharingan abilities and more chakra. This is an excellent exchange. Like I said before, don't kid yourself </p> </i></div>
<p>Man you need to let go your fanon since we on wikia. </p>

<p>Man I won't argue with person who don't know how to discuss in debate, even less chanses for us to "agrue" since you either using dupes or stolen other person nickname(both are bad things to do, also swearing is counterproductive). And for rest who might come with same "argument" for the last time Sasuke never blitzed TTJ Madara - Once he used Ameno on his sword while Madara was attacking in result Madara ending on his sword(not blitz since blitz is not escape), second him and Naruto attacking TTJ Madara in wich he switched with limbo clone and the last when he bisected Kamuing Madara who was not concerned with Sasuke's attack at all. None of these attacks can be considered blitzing. I suggest you to read manga again, you really need it. </p>