All posts by LoneNinja

<p>@Itachi </p><p>How I spend my time is irrelevant too you. How about you worry about yourself? </p><p>@Flat </p><p>Except you see it from Naruto's point of view too. Maybe a dozen feet higher. But they are about the same level. Not even close to being over 70 feet, i can say without a doubt. </p><p>@Combat </p><p>1) Explain Sasuke's punctuation marks then? What was he surprised by? Kabuto's insult to Itachi? Lol. What about when he said "Now!!", he was shocked he had to fire his arrow? Then again when Itachi stated he needed to use Izanami, when he states he has to use "The Izanami!!" he shocked himself? Lol, what? Since your theory doesn't work, !! obviously symbolizes yelling and alertness. Lol, why wouldn't have Kabuto been distracted. What would be the point of the explosions, the arrow, the smoke, and the clone? Obviously to distract him. </p><p>2) Is Sasuke, Orochimaru? No. Is Orochimaru, Sasuke? No. Is Orochimaru Eight Branches? Yes. Is the Eight Branches Orochimaru? Yes. Orochimaru is the Hundred Branches. It's not sharing his body. It's not a separate being. Orochimaru transforms INTO the Eight Branches stated by Kishimoto himself. Therefore that IS his body. Period. </p><p>3) Do you even know why we're discussing this? Kakashi's foot and jumping speed is irrelevant. I stated Itachi would be surprised by a underground attack. You brought up Kakashi's underground attack trying to prove Itachi can sense things underground and react. I stated Itachi barely noticed last second (even with the clone) and since Kakashi's underground doesn't have a speed feat, it's irrelevant. He was underground for a few panels and Itachi barely noticed him until after he caught the clone in the Genjutsu. Therefore, Speed > no speed. No speed because Kakashi was just chilling down there. </p><p>And how is there a no? Kabuto literally said that word for word. "Protecting Sasuke with your Susanoo slowed you down", not protecting Sasuke slowed you down. With his Susanoo... There isn't a no in this case. Also, you don't get to pick and choose. If Itachi can use clone and sub faster than Kabuto can react, why didn't he here? Either A) He isn't smart (which is obviously wrong). Or B) it wouldn't have worked because the circumstances are different. Kabuto is focused on them and not the distractions. </p><p>Lol, so you know tree sizes from afar now? Kimimaro's dead in place panel clearly shows the bones are dozens upon dozens feet high and still with no bottom. That's all the proof I need. Besides, this technique is a Ninjutsu. The more Chakra put into it, the bigger the technique. Obviously the user can control the size through Chakra like majority of Ninjutsu, shown by the difference of Kabuto's and Kimimaro's bone sizes. </p>

<p>@Itachi </p><p>1) Don't comment on what I'm doing unless you understand what I'm doing. Read the feed, if you can't put two together, then oh well. Combat's arguments always rely on "I accept your concession" or "debunked" when no one concedes or when nothing has been debunked. So I'm over using it to prove a point. </p><p>2) I'm pretty sure I explained when something was debunked. </p><p>"No proof it can maneuver on it's own, therefore debunked. " Abilities not shown or stated are completely made up by the person presenting them. Therefore, they are false. </p><p>"Debunked cause Izanami feats are irrelevant." A speed feat that happens in a Genjutsu is irrelevent to the user's actual speed. </p><p>"Jiraiya debunks you cause he loses his cool over the Harem technique all the time. Kakashi debunked you cause he was also clearly surprised. All naruto states is that Kaguya never seen a jutsu like that before. That doesn't mean she doesn't have any experience. So debunked." He stated being suprised by a Harem Technique shows that Kaguya lacked experience. He even stated that Naruto stated she lacked it. So if I have to explain why these debunk his statements, maybe you should head back to school, cause I made these as simple as possible. </p><p>So how about you get off my back. This is already the second thread you came at me randomly. You're already showing that your opinion is merely based off of discontent with my presence. </p>

<p>1) No proof it can maneuver on it's own, therefore debunked. That is mere speculation. It wouldn't even need to be held if that were the case. Changing your attribute and property doesn't mean you can float wherever you want. If the attack doesn't make contact, it can't be blocked by it. </p><p>2) Debunked cause Izanami feats are irrelevant. The author literally showed you multiple times Kabuto trapping Itachi and Sasuke, or hurting him and you downplay him. So irrelevant. Kabuto wasn't going for the kill either. He was after Sasuke. That's enough for me. </p><p>3) How does the databook make it irrelevant? </p><p>4) I'm pretty sure he has a choice. All it takes is a single hand sign. He can perform that with ease as Itachi grabs his Shuriken and tosses them and makes his hand sign. And if they are in the sphere Itachi could try all he wants. Samehada absorbs Chakra. Why couldn't it absorbs the Genjutsu Chakra from Kisame? It's already stated to absorb Chakra from him already. </p><p>And. Jiraiya debunks you cause he loses his cool over the Harem technique all the time. Kakashi debunked you cause he was also clearly surprised. All naruto states is that Kaguya never seen a jutsu like that before. That doesn't mean she doesn't have any experience. So debunked. </p><p>Finally, Yata mirror can only block what makes contact with it. I don't think Ocular Genjutsu fits that. As far as I'm aware those are instant. They aren't physical or spiritual attacks that are fired from the user to the target. Instead they have a condition and once that condition is met, the target is in the Genjutsu. </p>

<p>@Flatzone </p><p>It was shown how high from Nagato staring across at Naruto who was standing on the dog with it's head in the ground. Therefore, not that high. Maybe a dozen or two feet. Tree's can grow to be 300 feet. So where's your proof? </p>

<p>1) "!!" argument is debunked by yourself, as shown in the chapter you provided (580). Sasuke utilized double punctuation before attacking. There was nothing to be surprised about. When he finally was, it was symbolized with "!?" also shown multiple times with Kurenai. Therefore "!!" does not symbolize surprise, "!?" does. </p><p>Also, I hardly count that as feat due to the various distractions performed by two people. 1st, Itachi sends out a Susanoo attack. Second dust covers the top of the cave. Third Sasuke pinned him down with a Susanoo arrow. Fourth, Itachi pressed him. 4 distractions before Kabuto is caught off guard and had it not been for him being pinned or Sasuke's attack even, I doubt it would've worked. Even then he instantly reacted therefore proving he just wasn't aware of his surroundings due to be distracted. This is just evidence on Itachi's clever tactics, nothing more. </p><p>2) Who cares if Sasuke wasn't absorbed. If Sasuke turns into a dragon and is stabbed he's sealed. It seals WHOEVER it pierces not seals someone as long as they don't change forms lol. Just because Orochimaru changes his form doesn't mean he can't be sealed away. Orochimaru is the Eight Branches serpent. They are not separate entities. They are one being. As stated by Kishimoto in the Databook, Orochimaru IS THE SERPENT. Period. Itachi knew it was Orochimaru's technique cause he said it was. He even knew about it, calling it by name. But even after all that and Orochimaru manifested a part of himself in the mouth, Itachi still didn't pierce him. He still waited. Let him laugh. Let him barf out a sword. Let him have his dialogue. Only after Sasuke was mentioned, he has his Susanoo thrust. So debunked. </p><p>3) Actually, Kabuto explicitly stated that his protecting Sasuke with his Susanoo slowed him down. Therefore, the way Itachi tried to save him was the reason. This also proves the distractions were the reason Itachi was able to surprise Kabuto in the earlier argument. Why didn't he just do that again and get away with Sasuke? Answer is it wouldn't have worked. Also why didn't he just full susanoo? They were close enough. Therefore, he was caught off guard and didn't have time to save them both. Key word, caught off guard. If he wasn't, he could of done various things that could of gotten him out of it. </p><p>I never said Kimimaro gets his feat. I say he gets better because his actually has a speed where as Kakashi's underground technique (which took a few panels) does not. Feat > Speculation. Therefore, he doesn't get the feat, he gets better until you prove Kimimaro's bone is slower, point is simple. Evidence or disregarded. </p><p>Lee couldn't do anything. He couldn't move back in time. He couldn't jump. Therefore he couldn't react. He was aware of it. But being aware isn't reacting. Reacting requires a response. </p><p>Finally, no. Trees are not all the same sizes for one. And we can't even see the floor cause the bone forest goes so high. Therefore, irrelevant since Itachi jumped as high as the multiple headed dog's head smashed into the ground. </p>

<p>1) She called him super human because she can't track his movements. Pretty simple. Honestly, I don't need to even explain cause you already did. I like how you are quick to say Itachi isn't trying when it suits you but when it doesn't, you quickly disregard it. What Kurenai reacted to is irrelevant due to the claim you, yourself brought up many times. Itachi wasn't trying to kill her. When it came to the clone, she couldn't follow, Kakashi's eye could. Also Kurenai is not = to any of the three S Class Shinobi in this fight therefore debunked. But for the argument's sake, Kakashi obviously could thus why he knew which was a clone and which was not. Kakashi at that point in time wasn't even equal to Orochimaru according to himself, so debunked. Since when couldn't Kabuto track Itachi's speed? </p><p>2) Wrong. The Totsuka seals whoever it pierces. Orochimaru is stated in the Databook to turn into the multiple headed snake. That monster IS Orochimaru. Using the regenerative powers of the white snake as his vehicle, OROCHIMARU TRANSFORMS INTO AN EIGHT HEADED, EIGHT TAILED WHITE SERPENT that appears from Sasuke's Curse Mark. Sha no Sho page 310, therefore Debunked. </p><p>3) Itachi has shown time and time again to be almost completely not aware from underground attacks or movements. Both times against Kakashi, once against Kabuto. He literally reacts to it last second every time which is why he was hit by Kabuto. And no, jumping isn't going to save anyone unless they can jump higher than Gaara can fly. If jumping was a easy answer, Lee wouldn't have needed saving. You can't hop on them especially when they have branches sprouting out radically. The second Databook compares them to dragon claws or a beast such as that and they... </p><p>slaughters whoever stands on the ground’s surface, down to the last man… </p>

<p>It's explicitly stated to be made of Hashirama's cells so, it's stated to be organic. </p>

<p>1) Does it state that his Susanoo is invincible? Invincible means cannot be defeated or overcome. Yet, Kirin already proved that Susanoo can be destroyed even while equipped with those items and causing damage to Itachi. Therefore, his statement was debunked before it was even stated. </p><p>2) And? Kabuto was after Sasuke. Itachi was just in the way and immortal. It goes both ways. Kabuto couldn't kill Itachi because Itachi was already dead. He had to immobilize him and undo his reanimation with sealing or something else. Also, regaining control might be a possible. The point is, you can say Itachi was inhibited all you want, but he had endless reserves and was at full capability. Make him alive and without Sasuke, Kabuto wouldn't have much trouble blinding him with his light and using sound Genjutsu to easily trap him at his own game. Then kill him while he can't break free since he doesn't have Sasuke's Sharingan to break him free from Kabuto's Genjutsu. What is Itachi going to do? Totsuka Blade? Distraction? Those are your usual counter arguments. Totsuka blade still isn't as fast as perfect sage Kabuto. Distractions didn't work before. Nothing is going to stop him from doing what he did before. </p><p>3) So you admit Black Zetsu called Itachi dense. Him calling Itachi dumb does not conflict with anything he has said before, therefore debunked. If Black Zetsu is right about Itachi being invincible, then he is right about him being dumb. Like I said, you can't nit pick when it only serves you. You don't get to use one statement from a character and claim he's credible then disregard every other. You say translation error? I say prove it. As far as I'm aware, Viz is legit. It literally owns rights to Naruto and that's all I need. That's only one of many arguments how the statement fails. Any Space-Time bypasses it, therefore fails. Black Zetsu is literally more wrong than right, therefore fails (credibility is very important. If someone is a liar and spouts nonsense consistently why would you believe anything especially exaggerated wrong claims like Itachi is invincible when Obito literally can phase into Susanoo thus proving it isn't or Kirin smacking it down and damaging Itachi). </p><p>4) But why would Kisame give him the chance? I believe Kisame would take Itachi as serious as he did Bee. He would use the Great Colliding Wave, it will undoubtedly become a sphere (Yata blocks attacks, doesn't negate jutsu). Itachi will be in it's confines and Kisame would have the likelihood of coming on top since everything about Itachi being in water is bad. Drowning, slowed, etc. There is nothing stopping Kisame from bashing Itachi inside the dome. </p><p>5) Mindless in her fight with her sons? Proof? If you fought ants your entire life you will lack in experience compared to one who has fought gods. Fighting Sixth Paths Naruto alone would be experience incomparable to anything that Itachi has. The harder something is, the more experience earned. Kaguya might be 0-2, but that's only against god tier. As far as I am aware she's 2-0 when it comes to trapping mortals in IT. Black Zetsu is a part of Kaguya. Heck in truth, he's just Will Materialisation, a Ninjutsu created by Kaguya. Also wasn't it explicitly stated to give all his experience to Kaguya? Event Recording. Either way, Black Zetsu is just a Ninjutsu created by Kaguya and stated to be a tool of hers. So his knowledge belongs to her either way. Although I've stated many ways she can kill Itachi, that was if Itachi could get passed her first move. She can literally do what she's always done. Infinite Tsukuyomi and there's nothing Itachi can do to stop her. Since IT has always been her M.O., you can't say she won't use it. She can use it with ease by just flying into the sky and looking upon the moon. </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>1) No, I didn't run out of options. I just seen all I needed. You used an "or". Which means you aren't entirely sure. Therefore, I accept your concession. </p><p>2) Eight Branches Technique states Orochimaru turns into the snake. Itachi stated that this technique belonged to Orochimaru and knew it by name. That's all the proof I need. When Orochimaru was stabbed and sealed so was the Eight Branches. Therefore, they are one in the same. Stabbing Orochimaru while he was the multiple headed snake would of sealed him just the same. </p><p>3) The point about the underground speed is that Itachi literally states he almost didn't notice Kakashi moving underground and was almost caught by surprise. Even then he didn't even notice the real Kakashi until after he was emerging from the ground, realizing he trapped a Shadow Clone in Genjutsu. With that knowledge, the bones can catch him by surprise because they actually have a speed. </p>

<p>1) I accept your concession </p><p>2) I could continue arguing over this, but I know I'm wasting my time cause as you clearly shown, I can say and bring up any proof and you will deny it cause you simply don't want Itachi to lose. Your point of view is biased. After all, you think Itachi is invincible. All I know is you're debunked by Itachi's own statement "So what else Sasuke?". That and the fact he didn't open with Totsuka blade even when Orochimaru first appeared as the multiple headed snake, instead blocked and then slashed when he could simply just have pierced it and sealed Orochimaru away. So debunked. </p><p>3) So what? How does that prove Kakashi can move underground faster than the bones? </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>Almighty God (Supreme Being, aka superior to all which includes Itachi) > Invincible. Debunked. </p><p>Black Zetsu has been wrong multiple times, therefore his statement is debunked. Databook doesn't state he's invincible either, so debunked. </p><p>Can't even prove he can beat Nagato, so debunked. </p><p>Yet, Itachi didn't break the Genjutsu and needed Sasuke, so debunked. </p><p>Kaguya was stated to hold back and conserve her Chakra that entire fight therefore the reason isn't her inexperience, it's due to her limits, so debunked. If Kaguya is inexperienced so is Itachi. I think fighting Hagoromo and Hamura alone beats any experience Itachi could obtain. Let's also not forget her being an Otsutsuki therefore witness to the strongest clan in the entire universe. So debunked. </p><p>Nothing states Itachi can protect himself from the inside, therefore debunked. </p><p>Why would Kisame look into the eyes of someone he knows full well what he is capable of when they fight to the death? Clear evidence of you easily overplaying your character by easily making Kisame have 0 I.q. LMAO. "Itachi, I'm going to kill you, but first let me look into your eyes even though I know full well what you are capable of..." Riot. Yata Mirror is useless against the Great Colliding Wave since the point is to trap the target in a sphere of water. Good Luck keeping up with Kisame merged with Samehada in there. </p><p>Actually, you obviously don't know what a comparative adjective is. Denser is calling another dumber than person A, yes. However, by calling them dumber, they are saying you are more dumb than this person. They are still calling Person A dumb just Person B is dumber. If he wasn't trying to call Itachi dense, he wouldn't have said denser than Itachi, he would of said less smart or would of just called Sasuke dense period. But he didn't. He called them both dense with Sasuke being denser. But I understand how this conflicts with your false evidence so you will do whatever you possibly can to deny it and try to twist the statement. However, you are wasting your time. Any person who has taken your standard ELA course knows how comparatives work. Heck, elementary school should of taught you this. "You're dumb. You're dumber. You're dumbest." Not like it matters, everything Black Zetsu says pretty much is bullshit and that is shown time and time again. So how about you come at me with some real evidence? </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>I am not biased. The fact I hold Itachi at a high regard calling him Kage tier shows that. I'm just not ignorant or super fanned out to call him god tier and invincible. Minato is my absolute favorite character, and even I know he can't stand against God Tier. The fact you think he is god tier and invincible clearly shows you're biased. There is no possible way he can compete with any of the god tier, period. If he could, he would of killed Obito and the entire Akatsuki alone, who weren't god tier. Everyone god tier could solo the Akatsuki. SP Naruto. Sp Sasuke. Kaguya who is the ten tails. Jubi Madara. Jubi Obito. Etc. Itachi cannot, therefore a prime example of how he isn't close to being god tier. </p><p>Also. Another example of a bias point of view. Who cares who came up with the plan. No Sasuke, no plan. No Sasuke, no breaking free. No Sasuke, death. Period. </p><p>About Kaguya's Byakugan. I got a good one. "Plot" LMAO. No, just teasing, I ain't got to rely on that tactic. Who cares what happened between multiple enemies. Itachi isn't any of them. She isn't spamming taxing techniques trying to kill god tier shinobi like Sp Naruto and Sp Sasuke. It's explicitly stated by your all knowing Black Zetsu that she needed to conserve her Chakra. Besides, as if Itachi could make it even that far. I accept your concession on the ETSB. </p><p>LMAO. Clear biased point of view. "Black Zetsu said Itachi is invincible so it's legit." "Black Zetsu called him dense but that part isn't legit". Clear proof how you nit pick accept what only benefits you and deny what conflicts. Enough said, I accept your concession. Also, unless it's from a legal source, it isn't legit. Therefore, only Viz's or the raw translation is legit. So until I see a raw, Black Zetsu called him dense. </p><p>Ice and Fire Dimensions are not attacks. They are environments. Attack. N, an aggressive and violent action against a person or place. Last I checked, none living environments don't have emotion to be aggressive or intention to be violent. Since it's explicitly stated to only block attacks, Itachi can't block natural lava minding it's own business. Just dropping him in is enough while Kaguya leaves. Itachi falls, tries to block, get's surrounded and molted. Good game. Can't block what it doesn't make contact with. What goes up must come down. So even if he could block normal lava (which he can't), he would fall deeper into the lava, the lava will surround him, he will die. But that's just one of many ways how she can easily kill him. Another is teleportation and ash killing in the gravity dimension. Bam, can't block that. No Obito or Kakashi to save the day. Heck, it don't even got to be in that dimension. Teleporting inside his susanno and using the bones to shank him is enough. </p><p>Based on Sp Naruto moving faster than Light. Therefore, Kaguya, Jubi Madara, Sp Sasuke, merged Momoshiki, and anyone who went toe to toe with Naruto who had intent to kill or beat, has the ability to move just as fast. </p><p>Might Guy was moving so fast that it bended space. Therefore, his speed transcends them all since no one else has done the same. </p><p>Totsuka didn't blitz anyone. It hit a controlled puppet of a distracted Kabuto who wasn't even on the scene. </p><p>How would he defeat her? Totsuka? Not fast enough. She doesn't even need to stay around him to win. She can literally leave him like she did Sasuke in a desert to die. And who says she needs to be around Itachi to blow up the world? If she wants to blow up the world she can teleport wherever and whenever and do so. Itachi can't do shit about it. Kaguya is god tier, Itachi is not. You have yet to prove he is. You can't even prove he can beat Nagato who isn't even God Tier, lol. Heck even Kisame with Samehada and Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave can probably take on Itachi. </p>

<p>1) Or he created a clone and that clone used Flicker and got behind the enemy. Since that's a possibility, your theory isn't a fact. And that's all I need since the series has never stated Shadow Clones can appear wherever the user wants. So I accept your concession. </p><p>2) Did Itachi want to seal Nagato? Yes, but didn't open with Totsuka. Therefore debunked. Was there a difference between Orochimaru and Nagato? Yes, Itachi was on the verge of death. Therefore, verge of death was the deciding factor. I notice if series triumphs what you have to say and you have nothing, you always claim plot. And oh please. Clear biased argument. "Plot for only me but no one gets to use it." Smh. Go ahead and scream plot all you want, it's an invalid argument especially since you're in the mindset "I get to say plot but if anyone else does, it's wrong". Therefore, I accept your concession due to lack of a valid argument. People who claim plot just don't have an argument. I already explained why Nagato wasn't opened with Totsuka. Plot argument can only be used if there is no other possible scenario. I gave one, Itachi on the verge of death had no choice and even then it is not counted as an opener. To be an opener it has to be at the start of a battle. If someone joins a battle late, then the battle is still late, it just doesn't reset and become a new battle. Itachi and Sasuke are still drained. Fight, N, take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons. Itachi even attributed Orochimaru joining the fight, asking Sasuke if he had anything else therefore proving the fight had not ended between them. Therefore, it isn't an opener but a continuation of everything that was transpiring. Also, why wouldn't Itachi want to kill Orochimaru the first time? Orochimaru betrayed the Akatsuki by attacking Itachi and was force to flee them after that attack. He made it clear he wanted his eyes, and you think Itachi who is so wise in your eyes, that he wouldn't go after Sasuke? Each time Itachi has used Totsuka, he has used it in the late fight. So debunked. </p><p>3) So "Even though Kakashi's underground technique has no speed feats, he is faster cause his foot speed is faster." Lmao. I accept your concession due to horrid logic and lack of (or more precise no) feats or statements. I have a speed for the Bones. You don't have a speed for Kakashi's underground. Therefore, feat > your theory. </p>

<p>1) I accept your concession. Kakashi with substitution has shown to be able to disappear from multiple panels before showing back up since the very beginning of the series. </p><p>2) I accept your concession. Since you clearly don't deny Orochimaru joining Sasuke's battle, that means it was not an opening move for Itachi. Itachi was on the verge of death, so there was no reason for him not to use the Totsuka blade. Plot is just an excuse people use when they have no answer. Heck, I can use it right now an say Itachi only used it on Orochimaru because of plot. We have two instances of when Totsuka has been used in all his fights. 1) Against Orochimaru as Itachi was on the verge of dying and had taken considerable damage (Itachi literally dies after Orochimaru is sealed and seeing this is late fight, not an opener). 2) Nagato, who he didn't use it on when he had the most opportune moment. Nagato crippled, and unaware. You say plot, I say personality. Seeing as you have no proof (just like with Totsuka's speed) that Itachi would use it personality wise (why would he when he has never shown to do?) as an opener, therefore a concession on that as well. You can speculate all you want, but Manga > Speculations. Manga shows given the right opportunity, Itachi won't just go out of his way Totsuka blading everything unless he has created a 100% strike possibility, or is on the verge of death. </p><p>3) You accept my concession when you're the one conceding, lol? Also your attention spam must be minimal. This is about Kakashi moving underground. The Bones > Underground. Kakashi moving underground doesn't have any speed feats where as the Bones do. Therefore Bones > Kakashi underground in terms of speed. </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>Completely biased. </p><p>"Why is it so hard to understand that if itachi had killer intent against kabuto, kabuto would be dead? " </p><p>If Itachi was alive, he wouldn't have lasted even half as long as he did. And if he didn't have Sasuke, he would of stayed paralyzed and unable to move from the sound Genjutsu. </p><p>Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball, stated to be a able to obliterate the entire world. As if Itachi could stop her. All she would need to do is teleport away, and blow up the world. Itachi wouldn't be able to do anything. So much for your falsity. Accept your own concession. Heck, she can literally instantly teleport Itachi into a realm of lava. Bye bye. Amenominaka, "teleports everyone within a certain range to one of her dimensions. As it occurs instantly, enemies can be caught completely off guard; some have found themselves plunging into a river of lava,[2] and encased within a block of ice.[3]". </p><p>I still have yet to see proof that Totsuka can even move at god tier speed. So I accept your concession that Totsuka cannot move at that speed. </p><p>Also, the biasism. You would say anything to help Itachi win. Smokescreens? The way you take away Kaguya's abilities. Knock Knock, Byakugan. If it were that simple, Sasuke and Naruto who move far faster than Totsuka blade could even dream of reaching, would've done it. Lightning timer? Kaguya moves faster than that. Black Zetsu? He called Itachi dense in Viz. Dense is an informal way of calling someone stupid. So you can take Black Zetsu's comment of Itachi being "invincible" and I'll just use his comment of him being dense in the viz translation. Can't nick pick when it only serves you. He also called Kaguya an almighty god (God, N, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being). That she was the progenitor of Chakra. He also said Sasuke getting out of Kaguya's desert dimension was impossible. That Tobi likely perished in Deidara's explosion. Black Zetsu has said a lot of things that turned out to be wrong. Therefore, he is hardly a credible source of information when it comes to others. </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>I'm pretty sure everyone has stated majority of what you said. So if no one has done a good job, you haven't either. </p>

<p>1) Same can be said for Itachi and said he used that timing for himself. </p><p>2) I accept your concession because I never said that. I said that that Itachi has never used Totsuka blade as an opener. Orochimaru joined the fight between Sasuke and Itachi. Therefore, it was not an opening move. I also accept your concession on plot/experience excuse. I literally cited you evidence from the manga and you have no counterargument, other than it's "plot" because you don't want Itachi to lose. </p><p>3) Actually, his statement is all we need. He stated Gaara saved him. That is enough. </p>

<p>@Legion </p><p>2) Still don't see the relevance. How does that prove Chidori has propulsion? </p><p>
4) So no proof of character moving faster than sound while talking. Therefore, Kakashi was not moving faster than sound. </p><p>5) "but it can be countered". Why? Why can it be countered by anyone? If it moved 1/3rd the speed of light, how can just anyone counter? As I shown with point 3), you have to be moving as fast to counter it. Not just anyone can move 1/3rd the speed of light. Heck not just anyone can react to lightning. </p>

<p>1) I accept your concession. You clearly see Kakashi's head above the water wall, him being shown diving under is completely made up by you and only him swimming after the wall is over with is shown. Kakashi has shown time and time again that substitution transpires faster than one may perceive. Simply making a clone and substituting to get away faster than those can see, is child's play. You put two together. I see no statement from Kishimoto, and seeing as a simple Body Flicker can accomplish what Itachi did, what you say is merely a theory. </p><p>2) I accept your concession still. Just making excuses now. Where's your excuse for Nagato and why Itachi used Amaterasu instead when he had the perfect chance to just one shot Nagato while he was crippled and unaware? </p><p>3) Why would I need to prove Kakashi's speed? I'm not the one arguing for him. I know Kimimaro's bone speed. Kimimaro's bone = weightless Lee. Kakashi underground = unknown. Therefore Kimimaro's Bone > Underground due to Underground having no speed feats. It's pretty simple, lmao. Feats > biased point of views. </p>

<p>@Combat </p><p>I refuse to believe bs, is all. Itachi, the Totsuka blade, anything Itachi even possesses couldn't even hope to move at god tier speed. Your only evidence to Totsuka blade's speed is Orochimaru which is still debated by everyone. And Orochimaru is no where close to their speed so the feat against him is irrelevant. Until you show me proof that Totsuka is faster than Light, then keep dreaming. Kaguya easily destroys the world. The shield can't block what doesn't connect. Kaguya just blows up the planet and Itachi wouldn't be able to stop it. Byebye with ease. Heck, that's overkill. All she really needs to do is teleport inside Susanoo and take Itachi into another dimension and drop him in a lake of lava. Lmao. Itachi is nowhere near God tier even with those items. Quit overplaying him, he couldn't even solo Kabuto. </p>