QuakingStar wrote: Like I said that would be the same difference for Real Wind. Itachi would survive it just like against Kirin.
You do remember that Kirin tore apart Susanoo leaving Itachi even more dead and that Gai's, who could barely move and was exhausted, Hirudora pretty much raped Madara's Susanoo right?
Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke SP chakra that, when combined with SM and EMS respectively, form SPSM and Rinnegan. Just because you activate a new form or mode does not mean you can produce that chakra to utilize that mode whenever you want. If that was the case then Naruto can constantly produce and use NE and SM even if he wasn't a perfect Jinchuriki since he activated it before. He can also create the chakra of all nine Biju since he received and used their chakra to create his own cloak in SPSM.
Assuming what you said is true about the chakra gift only being there until it was used up, then why wouldn't Hinata still be able to use the Hamura chakra to activate Tenseigan. She hardly used all of it to destroy the Tenseigan Altar seeing as she received all of it (that is like Biju levels of chakra). The only reason she needed Naruto's help to destroy the Altar was because her Gentle Step wasn't destructive enough and Plot no Jutsu.
QuakingStar wrote: You see that's now how it works.. chakra gifts alone are temporary no exceptions. Danzo needed the Hashi face(flesh and the chakra it generates) to have hashi chakra AND wood release permanently(almost lol) Madara needed to implant the flesh/cells into his chest wound in order to get Hashi chakra and Rinnegan(he did not get wood release as you need the Hashi face for that except in a zetsu's case, or yamato's case) Sasuke's heart was repaired with Hashi cells. If somebody simply gives you chakra, it will expire eventually because you have no source to regenerate that chakra because it isn't YOURS. That's why Kakashi could never keep the DMS after Obito left.
Yeah ... I guess that means Naruto also lost his SPSM that he got from Hagoromo's chakra.
But ... Itachi doesn't have a stabilized (aka. Complete Body) Susanoo. Gai wrecked Madara's armored one (I think it was armored) (who had EMS, Rinnegan and magic Hashi cells) with 7 gates in a second. I don't get how Itachi survives this.
Minato 87 wrote:
AnonymousBlank wrote: Whenever we see Gai use the 6/7th Gate he is always perfectly fine aside from being out of breath. Plus Hirudora pretty much destroyed Madara's humanoid Susanoo.
Humanoid Susanoo<Armoured Susanoo (plus Itachi has Yata mirror).
That reminds me, is Madara's Susanoo without the skeleton showing his humanoid or armored one? Cuz if it is his armored one then Gai broke it like nothing else.
^ Gai doesn't need the 8th gate to break through Susanoo lol.
Byakugan. It's abilities are nice, simple and very effective. You get to see through everything, telescopic vision to go along with that, 360 degree vision and, if we accept the fillers, micro and heat vision.
And, if we are also talking about having it IRL, I can use the "I'm blind" card just for kicks.
Hinata is a direct descendant of the Otsutsuki since she was the heiress of the Hyuga Main family. And by the chakra of Otsutsuki member I believe it is specifically Hamura's Otsutsuki descendants so the whole Otsutsuki chakra from Naruto wouldn't work.
I don't think its really possible for Boruto to get anything special seeing as it either belongs to Naruto (which he doesn't want to do), Sasuke (and by extension possibly Sarada), Hashirama or a villain. I would like to see him become a sage except not through the toads.
I never got how Sasuke absorbed the Biju chakra with his PS up while in Madara vs. Gokage, Ohnoki's Jinton only worked on the wood clone Susanoo army and Edo Madara was because they couldn't absorb it with the Susanoo up.
Minato 87 wrote: Guy can't beat healthy Itachi (without 8 Gates). He can't use the gate forever and he can't break the Susanoo (gates above the 5. are much painful and they have time limit-).
Whenever we see Gai use the 6/7th Gate he is always perfectly fine aside from being out of breath. Plus Hirudora pretty much destroyed Madara's humanoid Susanoo.
Sayian101 wrote: @AnonymousBlank
You COMPLETELY underestimate itachi's 3T sharingan. he will EASILY evade, read and counter nagato's movements and jutsus. the FACT that nagato lacks the ability to read movements let alone predict it gives itachi the advantage no matter what. and keep in mind that itachi is no kakashi, unlike him, itachi has feats where he is always 2jutsus ahead of his oppnent each time and THOSE were sharingan users! so what hope is their for nagato? lol.
Gen > rinnegan w/o susanoo
amaterasu > animal paths
3T perception > asura paths
Totsuka > human and petra path
Susanoo yata = deva path(which rarely ever otk anyways)
Nagato's only hope to win is 6paths of pain or using CT asap. oh and FYI, itachi's skill in gen can't even noticed by the sensory division.(not like it matters, time tsukuyomi unbreakable)
Dude ...what you said doesn't make any sense. First off, Nagato has better speed feats with DEAD BODIES than Itachi. So Nagato would destroy him in Taijutsu. Secondly, Nagato's Rinnegan is Madara's Rinnegan. So unless you are telling me that the ridiculous predictive abilities granted by the Sharingan, enhanced by the MS, and even further enhanced by the EMS are gone once the Rinnegan activates, Nagato completely and utterly destroys just about every character in the series in Taijutsu except Edo Madara and up. So -
- Rinnegan > Genjutsu
- Rinnegan > 3T/MS perception
- Preta path > Susanoo/Totsuka/Yata
- Asura > Any weapon Itachi has
- Deva > Everything Itachi has
Basically Nagato >>>>>>>>>> Itachi. Itachi's advantage of perception means nothing if he can't keep up. Or do you think that Sasuke was winning against Lee before the Chunin Exams.
P.S. Better than Sensory division? Who cares? Nagato could sense through a barrier set up by Kabutomaru (probably in SM) meant specifically to stop people from sensing through it. And if you think (for some reason) that Nagato can't, he has Rinnegan, this means he can see the chakra.
Who honestly cares about CT when Nagato doesn't even need to use it? OP says that they start a few dozen feet from each other with no impairments, health or mobility wise. Nagato ST'd Bee a good ways away and then appears right behind him without the guy (who is one of the fastest ninjas alive) noticing. And this is right before Nagato absorbs Gyuki's chakra and gets all healed up (for the most part anyway since his legs were still fucked). This means all he needs to do is blitz Itachi who can either -
1. Realise he can't win and try to run away only to be pulled back by a Bansho Ten'in. Or alternatively take a Chakra Laser/Rocket Punch/Missile Barrage up the ass resulting in -
- i) Itachi gets his soul ripped out.
- ii) Itachi gets vaporised.
- iii) Itachi gets mushed.
- iv) Itachi gets blown up.
2. Shoot Amaterasu which is Shinra Tensei'd back or just absorbed where -
- i) Itachi is burnt to death for the sins of patricide, matricide, numerous accounts of attempted fratricide, attempted murder, attempted kidnapping, terrorism and torture.
- ii) [See 1. i) for result]
3. Summon Susanoo as fast as possible where if it -
- i) has a fist/sword/TB (TB is very unlikely) to swing at Nagato it will be repelled with a Shinra Tensei. This sends Itachi flying where a few missiles/lasers etc. keep him busy long enough for Deva path to recharge. [See 1. i) for what happens next]
-ii) does not have a limb to swing Nagato uses Bansho Ten'in and rips out his soul or if the man can't be bothered to do so, just use one (or multiple) of the pointy implements the Asura path had when it tried to tear apart Tsunade to skewer Itachi.
4. As Nagato is in possession of enough common sense to not look at an Uchiha's eyes, especially one that was in his own terrorist organisation, Itachi may try to use a normal genjutsu or his Ephemeral. And since this fails (not because of Rinnegan immunity but because of Nagato being a sensor, sensing it and using the Preta path to absorb Itachi's chakra), please refer to your favored form of death for Itachi in 1. or 3. ii).
In any of the above cases where Itachi is drawn towards Nagato his attempts at Taijutsu/Bukijutsu etc. are prevented by the Asura path. Any attempts of Ninjutsu/Genjutsu are prevented through the use of sensory capabilities and/or the Preta path.
You will soon be arriving in the Pure World. As always, I hope you enjoyed your trip on Pein Airlines.
I honestly forgot about Limbo since Gai would be blitzing everyone so he unknowingly avoids with his warping of space, Sasuke and Naruto can see/sense it. Kakashi however has no idea of it actually being there to kill him which mean that while he waits for everyone to kill each other off he would be intangible just to be safe so when its him vs. Madara, Madara just needs to wait for the time limit to expire and he wins.
Well that is only if everyone doesn't decide to kill him first before murdering each other anyway. So that means either Madara wins or is the first casualty. If the latter is the case, Narujesus or DMS Kakashi would win, then Sasuke and finally Gai who will always be either be first in the grave or the second when everyone else takes advantage of the 90% dead state Juubidara is in before following the guy into the Pure World.
Then Kisame just uses his kenjutsu. I don't get what the big deal is. Kakuzu has to defend and attack with Doton: Domu since everything else will be eaten by Samehada or just plain destroyed with brute force. And since it can eat chakra still in the body, every strike literally drains Kakuzu of his chakra.
Even ignoring that, Kisame still tanked a Lariat from an 8-tailed v.2 Bee and got right back up with healing from Samehada despite his chest getting caved in and every vital organ, sans his brain, mushed.
What exactly is Kakuzu gonna do to him? Use his masks? Those will go rather quickly since the Earth one stays in his body all the time. The only one to watch out for is the Lightning one and that is only for when he uses his Suiton and can't defend with Samehada, meaning that Kisame will gun for it in particular. Once its gone the rest are relatively easy pickings.
Is Kakuzu the six? Cuz I'm not seeing this whole "outsmart him" thing. Kakuzu got tricked by Naruto who, while able to think of good plans on the fly, by all means should have gotten killed if not for plot armor. That or Kakuzu has never dealt with clones or multiple opponents before.
This "range of ways" being feed Samehada, and by extension Kisame, all his chakra. Yeah gg man. XD
TTJ Madara heals from pretty much anything and is part Zetsu so he doesn't need to eat/sleep/drink and probably regenerates from any dying cells like Wolverine so no aging there. At best Kakashi can pull a draw with Madara. 8 Gates Gai is too fast to be caught, Sasuke will simply replace himself with a piece of dirt on the ground or one of the others, and like so many other situations, Naruto's clone will throw him out of the way or simply appear in front of himself to block Kamui. Kakashi literally has no chance of winning this.
First are somethings that I don't get with how the OP was phrased.
His Power Level is Over 9000!!! wrote: Jiraiya: During his battle with Pain
Itachi: During his battle with Sasuke
No restrictions and fair fights
While Itachi was later said to not be ill that just means that he can't die from it like during Itachi vs. Sasuke. Just because he lacks a brain tumor or tuberculosis (whatever his illness is) doesn't mean his endurance goes up at all. It's not like it actually affects his speed speed, strength etc. And where are some people getting "perfect eyesight" from, the guy is still pretty much blind.
LoneNinja wrote: 1.1) Jiraiya stated he was going all out at the very beginning of the fight thus voids your claim he wasn't. You keep forgetting Itachi could use other Genjutsu besides the Sharingan based. The fact people said he could control multiple people on the manga chapter I provided, pretty much seals this case. Shisui also was able to use genjutsu outside a sensors range on multiple people, shown during Ao's flashback.
Pretty sure at the time Itachi was trying to kill Sasuke until Kishi retconned the thing just so Sasuke had a reason to be at odds with Konoha. So saying Jiraiya was going all out is clearly incorrect seeing as what SM did hadn't been defined yet aside from stronger jutsu.
1. Pein's receiver stabbed through SM Jiraiya's forearm and shoulder with ease while SM Naruto shattered it like glass with a block.
2. Jiraiya didn't have any additional sensing abilities or else he would have known three other Peins (or reinforcements at the least) were coming and drop his guard.
3. SM Naruto (indirectly) on top of Gamabunta a good ways away from the 6PoP and Tsunade was able to intercept the Asura path, who cleared at least 60m-70m in 1 second from our perspective (therefore is actually moving much faster), before it reached Tsunade while Jiraiya moved at the same speed. And I think we all agree that Jiraiya >>> Naruto speed wise.
4. SM Naruto crushes the Asura path with one hit whereas it tore of SM Jiraiya's arm without Ma or Pa realising until they looked down.
1.2) Not even gonna reply to this because the clones were also gathering their chakra and had their hands clapped. Also about the Kakashi thing, Kakashi could only make a handful of Shadow Clones while Naruto could make over a thousand without Kyubi.
Doesn't have to do with the debate but I think that Kakashi is just shit at telling chakra levels without the Sharingan
2)I asked for a toad that could benefit Jiraiya, Gama is not one when he can just be Genjutsu'd, Amaterasu'd, Tsukuyomi'd, etc.
Seeing as Gama was fast enough to get in between Kisame and Naruto (with neither realising until it had happened) as well as stop Samehada dead in its tracks, I'm pretty sure that Gama could actually make a difference
LoneNinja wrote: 3)Then read the Manga chapter it has listed.
Well that is clearly an exaggeration seeing as these guys are sensing some pretty accurate shit going down a few hundred miles away. Now if Itachi can cast genjutsu at that distance he is op even for the best of the best outside characters like Kaguya, Juubidara and Juubito
6) I think I gave you a reasonable time and it still isn't on there, so can't be used.
Fact is though Jiraiya always has fuinjutsu materials on him just like when he first sealed Amaterasu. Not to mention when he started burning the message into Fukusaku's back. That means he can simply use a rock to seal it away. That makes it even worse for Itachi since he (Jiraiya) is a Doton user, so one rock wall with the seal already on it and one MS power is useless
8) There's no way a toad can get away from an Amaterasu flame when it could hit A in his Lightning Armor form and he needed Body Flicker+Lightning Armor to dodge it. That is a made up assumption that a toad is fast enough to dodge it.
Gamakichi used NE against TTJ Obito, if he can use it why wouldn't the older boss level summons be able to aka they sense Amaterasu and jump. Plus Gamabunta was able to keep up with SM Naruto and Pein's fight actually intercepting the Deva path who is definitely the fastest. This means that in terms of speed if
Amaterasu >= CS2 Sasuke < Orochimaru = 4 Tails v.2 < 6 Tails v.2 >= Deva = SM Naruto
And Gamabunta could intercept Deva moving full speed to stop Naruto re-entering SM then the giant toads are able to dodge Amaterasu along with Jiraiya/SM Jiraiya.
^ Emaciated (abnormally thin, weak) not emancipated (freedom from something e.g laws or people). I pretty much agree with Itachi dying. Nagato probably wouldn't need CT to win.