All posts by Ishi208

<p>This is tricky because you'd have to play the battle out every 5 seconds since that's how Tendo Pain works. I'd like to say H/O/C would win just because they'd overwhelm him but none of them have any idea how Tendo works. I'd say right of the bat someone dies just out of sheer amazemnt of his abilites. Also none know how to beat Chibaku tensei so they could all just get sealed by it. Chiyo is only good to pull the others out of Bansho Tenin because her puppets would break from ST and Onokis Dust release gets dispelled by ST(although he can still put on pressure). </p><p>PS:Actually If Tendo sets up CT, I can see Hiruzen using RDS whilst being sucked and sacrificing himself to save the other two but that's only if CT stops if Tendo dies(which I would think he would). </p>

<p>I don'think a Rasengan would beat Choji espescially seeing that Jigokudo(Naraka path) was perfectely fine after he got hit by it. Choji's handled maybe worse going up against CS2 Jirobo. Choza blocked searing ash cloud with expansion and got up just fine and although its not the exact same thing, Bee blocked Itachi's shurikens with Gyuki's partial hand transformation so I don't see why Choji can't do something similar if Konohamaru uses Shuriken shadow clone jutsu(Although It might be easier to dodge than I'm making it out to be). Konohamaru has guts but I meant this as an "Intent to kill" fight so I would think with no mercy Choji wins. </p>

<p>Does anyone think Gaara has enough sand in his gourd to defend against a full power Butterfly bomb? It takes time for him to create sand beneath the ground and him stopping a meteor was mainly because he was in a desert where there was sand in abundance. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Lion chakra wrote: Choji Kage level...? </p><p>No </p><p>This would be a bad day for Choji. Gaara wins without spilling his tea. </p> </i></div>
<p>You don't have to be kage level to beat a kage, if you recall the rank of a young ninja by the name of I think it was Naruto... </p><p>Explain how the battle plays out in your mind </p>

<p>I've already said why I think Hidan would win but as this debate goes on I've tried to fight for Zabuza. The only thing I could come up with which I haven't covered is when Zabuza (In his first fight with Team 7, camo gear) appears inside the triangle of Naru and the others and before he could swing a panel shows Kakashi's sharingan "looking/seeing" and intercepts his swing and this could be attributed to the Sharingan use. However, Zabuza spoke before the Sharingan panel twice. This is of course assuming sharingan still worked in the mist which was only considered to be null when Zabuza thickened the mist in their second encounter, although considered to most to be negated despite the density of the mist especially more into the series. </p><p>My whole issue with Zabuza is that Silent killing is not instant. He just says it is and evidence shows something completely different. Kakashi reacted to it and countered before Zabuza could swing Kubikiribocho. Hidan has shown to be excellent at close combat and shown great awareness like sensing shadows creeping up on him in his second bout with Shikamaru at the start and great reflexes and quick thinking like when he used his scythe as a platform to dodge Shikamarus chakra blade mid air. Zabuza hit Kakashi's clone which was a feint, kicked him into water and put him in a water prisoned. (3 hits technically 1)Kakashi dodged all of Zabuza's attacks with Kubikiribocho. Second encounter Kakashi hit three times once with KKB which Kakashi said was intentional and it wasn't a head swing and it didn't even hurt him it grazed him (Kakashi had enough chakra for shadow clones and to beat Zabuza with one hand). Furthermore, instead of finishing Kakashi, Zabuza runs back into the thick mist which he knows he can't maintain for long. Not saying Hidan isn't cocky but couple this with the fact that he gave info on how hes countering the Sharingan so Kakashi can find a way to stop him. I don't man, seems pretty dumb and cocky to me. The other two hits in the second encounter came from a contact block in thickened mist which again didn't even scratch him and the last was Zabuza's first strike when Kakashi was revealing his Sharingan and he put his hand through the knife to block it which was also said to be intentional. (3 hits technically 0) </p><p>I think most people just want to give Zabuza credit because by some random standards he deserves better, literally the only reason. Zabuza is a character introduced at the very start of the series. It does matter that Hidan was fighting with a Part 2 squad and Zabuza a Part 1 squad. </p><p>PS:Another point for Zabuza is that Hidan takes time to draw his diagram but when he draws it when hes alone in the forest with Shikamaru its pretty quick. I think in the anime its as quick as Kakuzus Fire and Wind masks fusing together. </p><p>PPS:Just realised how much I boasted Kakashi in this lol. He's so weak XD truly a copying monkey. </p>

<p>@Marc&Dako I've written why I think it's not as easy as you think in the description. </p>

Danzo should win with Koto otherwise Onoki can just Dust release anything Danzo has. Danzo is on a timer with Izanagi and Onoki can just sit in the sky make his earth clones and pressure Danzo. Onoki can make himself faster than Danzo by making himself lighter and heavier to withstand Baku. The only thing that's a concern other than what I've stated is '''if''' Danzo's wind jutsu can cut Onoki's earth wall or other earth jutsu but I'm not sure how the elements stack up against each other.

<p>@Marc I agree. </p><p>At first I thought @Munch was talking about Hidan but RT Kakuzu beats Kakashi in his sleep. </p>

<p>@Ravenlot 27 I thought only STCT could seal Kaguya </p><p>@JouXIII Although (without giving much thought to it) I'd say Kaguya curb stomps both of them, if she couldn't dodge Sakura's Chaaaaa punch what's to say she can't dodge TB? </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>UltimaDude wrote: @Ishi208 I apologies for getting irritated. It's really not worth discussing, though </p> </i></div>
<p>No worries :) If you don't want to discuss it that's completely fine. </p>

<p>Hanzo is an unknown in the Naruto-verse. Kinda like Hiruzen. He's only hype unfortunately so its almost meaningless to include him in debates :/ </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Thekillman wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>Ishi208 wrote: All I know of is that it's said in the Manga "A Sharingan that can activate Susanoo is a rarity", it's not saying A Mangekyo Sharingan that can activate Susanoo is a rarity. I don't see Tobi even implying it. </p> </i></div>
<p>Since a regular Sharingan can not activate Susanoo to begin with, it's clear that he's referring to the Mangekyou. </p><p>Secondly, being able to is a very different from actually doing. E.g. Kakashi may be able to learn Hiraishin, but clearly he didn't. Shisui may be able to awaken Susanoo, but clearly he didn't. Considering that Sasuke awoke and matured it through extreme rage, yet Shisui was clearly not gripped by the Curse of Hatred, it may simply be this difference that prevents him from using it. </p> </div> <p>What about Itachi? Was he gripped by the Curse of Hatred?? Saying Kakashi could learn Hiraishin is a hole in Naruto too big to use as justifiable answer. Why didn't anyone in Naruto learn Hiraishin or only strong jutsu?? Susanoo isn't something you have to train to use, it's given with MS. Just like all the abilities of the Sharingan or a better example would be the Rinnegan. Sasuke didn't train to use his powers but could channel Tailed beast use his Hidden ability of teleportation and set up CT within hours some minutes. </p><p>Susanoo is a last resort and uses a lot of chakra without EMS so seeing it is rare in itself even with MS. This could be used as a case against Shisui w/Susanoo but saying it's rare in MS users, I would say within the bracket of "Rarity" Shisui still lies. </p><p>Also when Tobi said this, how many Sharingan users were alive, 4? Even more so how many had both their eyes, 1? I'd say 1/4 is rare. </p><p>@Ultimadude It seems you're getting irritated with my opinion saying "I'm arguing the fact" when I've only posted once and the second was simply asking you a question. I'm just trying to reach a conclusion whether it be my own thoughts or ones someone else has advocated. On to the point of the debate, if you've have seen the OVA or if you've forgotten Danzo steals Shisui's eye but he escapes. Danzo stays put and tells Root members to chase him and activates it in front of them without Danzo's watch so he doesn't activate Susanoo in front of him. Moreover, on Chapter 476 P7 Danzo says "is this" as he strikes Sasuke only to have it blocked by Susanoo implying he knew what it was. This reference is just additional proof. </p><p>To me and I think this is the only point worth debating on whether Shisui has Susanoo is that he used it with one eye in the OVA. However I dismiss this because of a few reasons. Firstly, Susanoo is said only to need awakening of MS not present usage of both eyes. Point against for this is Obito and Kakashi but I chalk it up to plot since the awakening of Susanoo by Kakashi was so gripping and served a purpose (plot) greater than the Naruto-verses malleable and self-contradicting logic. Secondly, although he may be Madara he used Susanoo with no eyes and again with only one of his eyes (Rinnegan) after he was fully resurrected. One eye is debatable but no eyes...*Facepalm*. Thirdly, when Itachi used Susanoo he didn't even have his base sharingan activated even when it was fully armored and had TB & YM out. </p><p>Unless someone wants to debate these points apart from mentioning "It's OVA so it's not canon" I won't say anything else on the matter other than advising the OP to specify rules and abilities for their respective debates :) </p>

<p>@UltimaDude How does it contradict the Manga? </p><p>@AsianReaper All I know of is that it's said in the Manga "A Sharingan that can activate Susanoo is a rarity", it's not saying A Mangekyo Sharingan that can activate Susanoo is a rarity. I don't see Tobi even implying it. </p><p>MS was said to only activate in a handful of users. In the anime only(I think) it was only shown that MS users were somewhat abundant over Izanagi usage (Itachi anecdote when explaining it to Sasuke) but there's no way to argue that the ones fighting were the only ones which posses MS plus Izanagi doesn't need MS. </p><p>As I mentioned before, I think OP should have clarified its usage in the debate but to me it doesn't make much of a difference. </p>

<p>Shisui awakened MS in both eyes so he can use Susanoo according to the Manga. The anime is not canon but shouldn't be disregarded completely. As a community we must deduce what is acceptable and what isn't. It's not a far-fetched idea to say Shisui has Susanoo but in the future OPs should state the restrictions and abilities of the battle participants. </p><p>Also using anything straight of the bat should come down to if OP says both sides start of at full chakra since it has to be kneaded and simply doesn't just appear. Dojutsu seems like a special case though since its been shown multiple times to just active in times of non battle situations and have been attributed to hold their own chakra. (I'm not sure when or who says it but it was directed at Nagato-It might have been Tobi or Zetsu). </p><p>Having said this Shisui could activate Kotoamatsukami and slowly encapsulate the surrounding area until he catches Minato. I guess from there if Minato knows what's coming which he probably won't since Shisui prominence was after Minato's death, he could teleport out and then try to use his sensory ability to track Shisui. But the biggest problem with this is that before Minato could get within a feasible amount to attack from, Shisui Genjutsu would be safely in range to hit him. </p><p>Shisui also has this fear factor as a "do not to approach" in war. To keep enemies such a distant away with pure Dojutsu is such an accomplishment. I think Minato had flee on sight due to FTG. If he marks you and lets you run, you could lead him back to your HQ giving Konoha a great boost to its war effort. </p><p>Even if this is Edo Minato I still say Koto trumps him. I think Shisui was so strong that he had to be killed off. In Shinto mythology Kotoamatsukami is the name given to the first gods that came into existence. It's sort of like saying how Hashirama was considered to be a God (before hacks), no one could oppose him. </p><p>If this is Shisui wo/Kotoamatsukami, it becomes more a tighter battle. Edo Minato I think beats him but regular Minato doesn't have Kurama. Personally I would account for Shisui having knowledge on Minato. Minato is just so renowned I would consider Shisui looking him up (during his days in Konoha) as well as other notable Konoha shinobi. Especially since Shisui is a master of BFT in which so was Minato or at least renowned as the fastest shinobi of his time (Not sure if he could do the afterimage clones and other BFT abilities). If Shisui does have knowledge I think he could retreat from Minato FTG Kunai and match him with Taijustu especially with the Sharingan. I don't think Minato could mark him unless he gets his around Shisui (to his back). This would just be to buy time to set up a zonal Genjutsu (like with Ao team). Without knowledge I think Minato wins. FTG is very pressurising without knowing how to defend against it since you don't expect it (Like Obito) and I don't think Sharingan can react to it like I said earlier, only SM is its weakness and people with hacks. </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>Uchiahmasters wrote: </p> <div class="quote"> <p>Ishi208 wrote: But what do you mean by the story mode specifics? </p> </i></div>
<p>you know the secret factors that happen if you get all the stars during the quick time events. </p> </div> <p>Oohhhh. Yh they're good. I took screenshot's of all the anime images. </p>

<p>There's many different types of intelligence. Jutsu, Life and Battle. Uchiha's are very gifted in battle smart and apart from strong ninja's who are obviously smart like Minato and Kakashi, Shikamaru is an outlier where he's not the strongest but his thought process makes up for it. People like Tobirama, Hiruzen, Madara and Orochimaru are Jutsu smart. Looking beyond the fighting and segregation are people who are life smart like Shisui, Jiraiya, Itachi, and Hashirama. Hashirama because he literally invented the modern day Shinobi world. </p><p>Notes: I'm not sure I can give extra credit to Naruto, Obito or Madara for intelligence more than what can be seen since their knowledge is so predicated by plot its hard to give them Life smart. They were just a nexus to fight each other until the other surrenders to their own ideals. Kishi chose Naruto (There's nothing wrong with that). Though all are battle smart. </p><p>Rasa is more smarter than Gaara since he was inventing jutsu for the Sand village but we didn't get to see much of him so it's null. But Gaara is life smart, more so than plot allows him to be. I'd add him to the Life smart list. </p><p>Minato is jutsu smart but he was surprised at Orochimaru undoing the RDS when Oro found it through Uzumaki research and Minato did extensive research on Uzumaki's too so I'd put him below the ones I've mentioned. </p><p>Madara and Tobirama's Jutsu smart is questionable. How did they know so much when there time had long since past. I think it's obviously plot but they are of another caliber in terms of being sheer ninjas and Tobirama did create some very common and powerful jutsu. </p><p>Nagato I think was just strong. His alignment of Pains when fighting Naruto was smart though. He's not life smart to me since all he was defeated by is a book which he could've read himself and plot. </p>