Chicken sin of Stupidity wrote: I think Tengai Shinsei would be too much for even Hashirama. And if Edo Madara could use the preta path, there's really no reason why he can't use the others.
Tenai Shinsei would also kill Madara, not only Hashirama. Kabuto stated this in the 4th war when Madara used it.
It all comes down to 2 factors:
Either Madara beats Hashirama with his Limbo clones
Either Hashirama beats Madara with Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands. Madara still has no answer to this, as Kyuubi + Perfect Susanoo got beat/matched by this.Madara doesn't even have Kurama in this.
Also, don't think that just because Madara has Hashi's cell, it means that they have equal regeneration/duration/stamina. They don't. Hashirama still edges him in this regard.
I think it could go either way, 50/50.
Every main character from the Naruto series got powerups from external factors: Naruto obviously had Kurama from the beginning and eventually received chakra from all bijuu as well as SPSM from Hagormo. He still however has his own trained powers: rasengan, multi shadow clone, rasenshurkien SM which would put him to Kage level (even High Kage level by adulthood).
Sasuke got a bunch of external power-ups : The curse mark from Orochimaru, then he even absorbed Orochimaru for a while, then he took Itachi's eyes to unlock EMS, then he received rinnegan from Hagoromo and even in the final battle he got power-ups from all bijuu. He would still have 3 tomoe sharingan and MS (assuming uses it moderately and doesn't go blind) which also puts him Kage level-ish.
Boruto obviously has his Karma stuff going on and probably had the jougan given to him as well somehow.
So it's a recursive occurrence to get external power ups....
Obviously Jigen is the strongest, followed by Naruto, Sasuke and Momoshiki. Below them are Delta, Kinshiki and Urashiki. Characters like Kabuto or Orochimaru are not in the same league.
It also depends and how strong is your chakra. In the end, the rasengan is just chakra shaped. For instance, even if Minato would master change in chakra nature rasengan, it would probably still be weaker than Naruto’s base rasengan.
Probably Minato has stronger chakra than Konohamaru, but Konohamaru’s wind rasengan seems to be no joke.
I’m not sure, really. I mean, Obito pretty much counters everything with Kamui, including the summons and shinra tensei. And in close combat one would think that Obito has the edge, again, due to Kamui. And if he manages to trap Nagato in his dimension, which isn’t unlikely, the battle is pretty much over. Not to mention that Obito has wood release, and crazy endurance and stamina and if thigs get really bad, Izanagi.
Ok, when Naruto was training to master Nine-tails chakra mode, Iruka and a bunch of Nara clan members tried to stop Naruto from leaving the island and go to the war. The Nara clan members ( who were like 10 members) tried to stop Naruto by using shadow possesion. Naruto, by merly activating ntcm, broke out of their possesion. So, if 10 Nara clan members couldn’t stop unexperienced ntcm Naruto, i’m pretty sure that Shikamaru is not able to stop (any version of) Naruto.
Sasuke couldn’t use the Susanoo when he fought Bee. The first time he ever used it was at the 5 kage summit, which happened some time after the Bee fight. Sasuke barely used amaterasu on his own for the first time vs Bee.
UltimaDude wrote:
Vladosaurus wrote: Flying thundergod works like the summoning technique, yet you don't need blood contract for it. You just teleport somebody from mark 1 to mark 2, and the mark is most likely chakra based.
FTG has nothing to do with the summoning jutsu.
I think it was stated that they work in similar fashion. At the end of the day, both of them are glorified space-time jutsus.
I think you usually needs scrolls to summons objects (Such as weaponry).
Where as summoning living beings, things aren't exactly clear. For instance, Pa could summon Naruto yet he didn't have a blood contract with him (that we know of at least). Yet usually when you summon a living being, you use a blood contract.
I think it's more of a chakra base thing than a blood thing. Madara and Obito could summon Kurama yet i don't think that Bijuu bleed.
Flying thundergod works like the summoning technique, yet you don't need blood contract for it. You just teleport somebody from mark 1 to mark 2, and the mark is most likely chakra based.
The rinnegan user can summon its path thanks to the rinnegan rods, which can handle chakra.
So probably a blood contract is chakra based as well.
Did Sarada display 3 tomoe sharingan until this chapter? I can’t really recall.
Obito, who knew all along that Naruto was Minato’s son, was the one who started the rampage. The whole Minato’s enemy’s thingy doesn’t really add up imo, but whatevs.
Even if Urashiki used a jutsu, not all jutsu become undone after the user's death. For instance, EDO Tensei. But yeah, we'll surly hear from Toneri in some way in the future. We haven't seen the last of him.
I don't think there is such a thing. Once a shinobi, always a shinobi. If you are referring to retiring from serving you country/village, this is another thing. Yes, once you get old enough (at least 50-55 + maybe) you won't be on the front line, that's clear. So you either stop serving your country or you take on an "office" role.
Squinty97 wrote: @Vlad you think Minato was more powerful than Tobirama? I could see Minato being the stronger combatant maybe, but just raw power?
I'd take Minato over Tobirama any day TBH. I've been vocal about this before. You can make an argument that maybe Tobirama would have the upper hand physical wise, being a Senju and all, but i can't see him beating Minato overall. Minato is no push over as well when it comes to physical prowess.
Yes, Tobirama has his legacy as been an inventor of jutsu, but what would put him above Minato? Shadow clones - Minato can do them as well. FTG - Minato is straight up better, and also perfected/extended the jutsu himself. EDO Tensei - Useless. As far as we know, Tobirama can't bring any strong shinobi up from the dead, otherwise he would've done that throughout his battles. Not to mention that it was Orochimaru the one who perfected the jutsu, again.
Tobirama is a strong water style user, supposably the best, but he wouldn't catch Minato dead. Minato was teleporting bijuu bombs and dodging Kamui.So there is that. In close combat, Minato has the rasengan, which is a huge help.
I just can't see Minato losing. They both rely mostly on FTG, at which Minato is simply better and more versatile. I'd take Minato every day.
Minato vs SM Naruto is a more challenging debate in my opinion.
I’d take Naruto over Tobirama. Naruto vs Minato is debatable. 1. Hashirama 2. Naruto/Minato 4. Tobirama 5. Hiruzen 6.Tsunade 7.Kakashi
SM is a trained power. Anyone can attempt to train for it. So it's not a given power-up and it shouldn't be consider an unfair advantage.
There are many factors here: Do Ma And Pa have knowledge on Naruto’s shadow clone - nature energy trick? Does Naruto have SM shadow clones already prepared?
Also their NY aproach is different. Naruto restores his entire chakra with SM shadow clones while Jiraiya didn’t seem to restore his. He was very weared down towards his fight with pain, even if Ma and Pa were still with him.
Also there is the summons debate. A fair fight would mean that neither of them can use any toad summons (except ma and pa). So no Gamabunta or the other toads.
I’d say that vs Pain arc Naruto is 50/50, but war arc SM Naruto beats Jiraiya.
Naruto and Sasuke sensed each other out due to them being linked together with six paths chakra. Sasuke sensed Naruto as adults when he was in Momoshiki’s dimension, so clearly they retained the ability to sense each other. Sasuke also isn’t a sensor, and still managed to see Jigen when he was small. And if a freaking 3 tomoes sharingan ( not even MS) can see jigen, then SPSM shouldn’t have any problem senseing it. Not to mention that Jigen has enormous amount of chakra that Naruto should easily sense out. Remember when Naruto tried to sense out the ten tails in the war and his chakra was overwhelming even compared to Kurama? Jigen has huge amounts of chakra as well...so yes, it was bs that Naruto couldn’t sense him.
Naruto pretty much sensed things that don’t even exist sinde they don’t share the same plane of existance...it’s just forgotting about characters’s abilties