All posts by Kirito975

<p>i still pose the possibility that sussanoo prowess is madaras MS forte, his developmental stages were way advanced compared to other susanoo users at the same MS stage. </p><p>just my own headcanon tbh </p>

how is this still going on

<p>Ehhhh Hokage Naruto is too strong, even if samehada absorbs charka, Narutos Reserves are vast. </p><p>
Also , if samehada absorbs enough nature energy, wouldnt it theoretically turn to stone? </p><p>Hokage Naruto > Kisame </p>

<div class="quote"><i> <p>LoneNinja wrote: I'm one of those few. Everyone likes to downplay them. But the truth of the matter is, Sasuke being weakened by Dimensional Traveling could be said for the Otsutsuki's, cause last I checked, all powers take Chakra. The difference is, they don't need that as an excuse. They still kicked ass, and it took 5 kage, two sixth paths users, and a kid carrying a god destroying Rasengan. </p><p>What could Sasuke do to Kinshiki? He's already proven he can't do anything. </p> </i></div>
<p>i mean, this fight relied completely on taijutsu..and if taijutsu isnt your forte, then having 1 power out of 2 or three depending if youre adept in the other two powers, is like cutting your power 50-66% </p>

<p>this is basically like you reversed the roles lmao , its 6 paths Hashi vs base Hagoromo </p>

i swear this has been going on for like 2 months

<p>hmmmmmm, i would give this to sasuke, at full power he contends with Fused Momo, his biggest disadvantage would be hes outnumbered, but even so he would be able to outspeed, over power both. </p><p>his Rinne techniques could help against kamui and his overall prowess could over power Madara. </p>

<p>well i remember somewhere in the manga/anime that natural elements such as Lightning, was much more powerful. Techniques that use a pre-existing natural, non chakra initiated, element made the techniques much stronger. </p><p>i could be wrong though </p>

<p>Im so proud^ </p>

<p>Naruto's own chakra was said to be 4x of Kakashi's, who was said to have average chakra levels. so naruto has 4x the normal chakra levels of the average shinobi without Kurama's influence. and thats when he was young. </p><p>as a Kage, and continuous training, plus SM - Naruto is easily mid Kage level. </p><p>he would still be the strongest of his Kage Generation barring sasuke, and would be able to be one of the TOP kage of all time. </p>

<p>Knowing how things transpire in naruto, this will be some sort of convoluted mess where he ends up being jiraya. </p><p>I know theyre shoving it in our face and making it way too obvious, but people were saying the exact same thing about Obito back when the Tobi theories started. </p><p>Remember that Obito "died" nobly, uncorrupted, sacrificing himself to protect his best friend and then Kishi pulled him out of nowhere and somehow turned him into one of the most evil characters of Naruto. </p><p>I dont see why Ike wouldnt do the same thing. </p>

<p>^ehhhh idk about that </p>

<p>Okay yes you're right, it makes no sense that i classify Moukton and Dojutsu as two separate things. </p><p>So what i meant by Hax dojutsu is EMS, which again is not an achievable power without body mods. Rinnegan which is not achievable without recreating Hagoromo's Chakra or stealing someone else's Rinnegan. And Obito's use of kamui, which was hax because lets face it, he should've been blind by the time of the fourth shinobi word war and wasnt because of hashi cell modifications because kakashi was using the exact same eye and power as him and he was almost blind by the time of the 4th shinobi world war . </p><p>But Dojutsu techniques such as MS are viable, because a uchiha only needs to experience great emotional upheaval, and do not need an external power source or gift </p>

<p>My bad, i honestly wanted to comment but i left my computer for a bit and this thread blew up more than i expected LOOL </p>

<p>Well Naruto as a kid had 4x the reserves of Kakashi, which is quite a large pool, and with sage mode it makes his chakra that much potent. </p><p>Honestly, given the right training by the right teacher, such Kakashi and other mentors, i honestly think naruto could've become an Elite Jonin, maybe even low Kage level. I think he wouldve been like Hokage Naruto albeit on a smaller scale. he wouldnt have the strength to fight otutsuki members but he would've been able to hold his own against other Kage or Elite jonin </p><p>
tbh that wouldve been a more enjoyable Naruto to watch, he wouldve been more like Jiraya, and he would actually have a chance at losing and would have to resort to tactics and strategic fighting rather than clone spamming or using Kurama/SPSM </p>

<p>Naruto is clapping him every which way. Base Naruto kept up with Momo, after tanking TBB and getting half his chakra absorbed. Kakuzu isnt even close to Momo </p>

<p>Okay im reading the replys and you guys make great points. </p><p>Gai is def the one who had worked through pure sheer of will and Training. But attributing Hashirama's strength to being an ashura incarnite is all well and good but you have to realize something. Having amazing potential means nothing if you cant realize and work for it Naruto is an incarnate as well but throughout their lives, hashirama has been stronger than him. </p><p>Hashirama was killing adult, battle seasoned and hardened uchihas when he was a kid. Naruto couldn't even beat someone like Haku in his youth without Kurama's intervention. </p><p>Now, if we look at the lives of Hashirama and Naruto, Naruto directly got a boost from Hagoromo himself. Hashirama didn't. Say what you will about the wood release, yes its hax, but its hashiramas power that caused it to become as strong as it did. Yamato, Zetsu, Obito & Madara all had wood release, and it was said they all paled in comparison to hashirama - the only one to be comparable to him was Madara who had a hashi cell boost and rinnegan. </p><p>If you can be taught a skill, its not considered an outside power source because you can work for it. if you have a Bijuu or body mods or power directly received from an individual I.E Hagoromo, then that power is not your own as you can not attain that power naturally. so Sage mode and 8 gates are viable, because you can be taught and trained to use them. </p>

<p>But, just for the sake of headcanon, wouldn't it make sense? Yang is the source of vitality and life. it would make scientifical sense that wood releae would have Yang incorporated because all of the times Kurama's YANG chakra was near wood release, it caused it to grow uncontrollably. </p><p>it stands to believe that the defining factor between Mud and Wood Release would indeed be Yang release. </p>

<p>Yes but the Kurama Chakra that naruto uses for those forms are just that - Kurama's chakra. </p><p>if you take away Kurama from naruto and give him sage mode which he earned through training, hes not as strong as hashirama. The premise that im setting is that these power-ups are all stemmed from external sources and not from ones own prowess. </p><p>Example </p><p>- Madara's rinnegan: the rinnegan is only able to be awakened by getting hagoromos chakra, therefore its an external power and not one you can awaken through teachings or training. </p><p>- Sasuke's Rinnegan-Sharingan Hybrid: attained from hagoromo himself/hashi cells( as this is still disputed so i will include both points) again, another external source as he wouldnt be able to awaken it otherwise. </p><p>-Naruto's KCM, BSM, SPSM: all are attained through kurama, and hagoromo respectively. Naruto's Sage Mode is the only viable power up. </p><p>- Ten tails is an external power </p><p>
Hashirama was never a jinchuriki. he never combined his chakra with an Indra reincarnate. He never received a boost from Hagoromo. His power has been built from the ground up through sheer training and experience in battle. Sage mode as well was something that he was taught and he perfected. </p>

<p>i still think that yang and yin release has to play some part in nature transformations. </p><p>Yang Chakra i think is the determining factor for Wood release, i.e wood release being Earth, Water and Yang = Wood </p>