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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Something Kunoichi101 found, there's something going on in articles with converted infoboxes and galleries. See Hiramekarei.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I believe I set up a fix to that immediately. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Fissionintroduce wrote: I don't know if it has anything to do with that but the manga chapters which have been adapted are no longer visible in the infobox for all the episodes of Sarada Uchiha Arc (Naruto Gaiden). </p> </i></div>
<p>I'm still not quite sure how to fix this at the moment. I'll get to it as soon as I can, but this appears to be a very isolated case having to do with the odd chapter name of "Naruto #700+1". </p>
<p>I believe I set up a fix to that immediately. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Fissionintroduce wrote: I don't know if it has anything to do with that but the manga chapters which have been adapted are no longer visible in the infobox for all the episodes of Sarada Uchiha Arc (Naruto Gaiden). </p> </i></div>
<p>I'm still not quite sure how to fix this at the moment. I'll get to it as soon as I can, but this appears to be a very isolated case having to do with the odd chapter name of "Naruto #700+1". </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>WindStar7125 wrote:
Any updates, FishTank? It's been a while and there are some questions and comments that you haven't responded to yet.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>Hi, there. Sorry, I've been swamped with some other projects and general changes with Fandom. I know that there are some outstanding infoboxes yet to be ported, but would you please summarize for me any remaining issues there are with those already deployed? </p>
<p>Hi, there. Sorry, I've been swamped with some other projects and general changes with Fandom. I know that there are some outstanding infoboxes yet to be ported, but would you please summarize for me any remaining issues there are with those already deployed? </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
</p>
I don't quite get why there are now two links to the derived jutsu query, both in the section title, and as an entry reading "All derived jutsu". Does the way that work requires at least one entry to generate the "derived jutsu" collapsible section title?</i></div>
<p>Yes, because a list of or search for derived jutsu literally is data, and shouldn't just have a header. This way, there is indeed a visual indication, and that "All derived jutsu" only appears if the only derived jutsu are non-canon. Otherwise, the link in the header when there are at least some canonical jutsu goes to the same place. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Yes. Though we do have a few exceptions where we don't quite know how to make work... </p> </i></div>
<p>Is the way it works currently how you want it? Or did you want to make a specific change in how exceptions are handled that is different from how it is now? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Kunoichi101 wrote: the episode infobox has caused a close merge or something to the credits box </p> </i></div>
It appears properly for me on both desktop and mobile. The infobox may have pushed the full-width table down, but that's to be expected with a full-width table. <div class="quote"><i> <p>Omnibender wrote: Also regarding infoboxes, something changed the Japanese air date field into a single field, instead of the separate month, day, year fields that still are the case for English air dates. </p> </i></div>
I've looked back through the last few years of revisions to the Episode infobox, and I don't see where the Japanese dates were separated in the manner you describe, though I would suspect they really should not have been separated and should be a consistent and comprehensive date. <hr><p>Any response to the design proposal above? </p>
<p>Yes, because a list of or search for derived jutsu literally is data, and shouldn't just have a header. This way, there is indeed a visual indication, and that "All derived jutsu" only appears if the only derived jutsu are non-canon. Otherwise, the link in the header when there are at least some canonical jutsu goes to the same place. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Yes. Though we do have a few exceptions where we don't quite know how to make work... </p> </i></div>
<p>Is the way it works currently how you want it? Or did you want to make a specific change in how exceptions are handled that is different from how it is now? </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Kunoichi101 wrote: the episode infobox has caused a close merge or something to the credits box </p> </i></div>
It appears properly for me on both desktop and mobile. The infobox may have pushed the full-width table down, but that's to be expected with a full-width table. <div class="quote"><i> <p>Omnibender wrote: Also regarding infoboxes, something changed the Japanese air date field into a single field, instead of the separate month, day, year fields that still are the case for English air dates. </p> </i></div>
I've looked back through the last few years of revisions to the Episode infobox, and I don't see where the Japanese dates were separated in the manner you describe, though I would suspect they really should not have been separated and should be a consistent and comprehensive date. <hr><p>Any response to the design proposal above? </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p><kbd>~movie</kbd> / <kbd>~movie canon</kbd> has now been fixed to the indicated behavior on jutsu articles.
</p>
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
italics not being applied to certain unnamed things in infoboxes, like teams in character infoboxes;
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I'll go back to those and get them consistent. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>for characters in lesser canon, like movies, if they use jutsu that is from manga, anime, novel, and canon movies, it doesn't show up in their character infobox. For example, Hiruko (missing-nin) uses Projection Technique, Big Ball Rasengan, and Lightning Cutter, but they don't show up in his character infobox. </p> </i></div>
<p>To clarify: if a given character is ONLY in games and / or non-canonical movies, you want to show all jutsu in their character article's infobox, and show them without a clarifier like <sup>(Movie only)</sup> (because that would be redundant). Correct? If so, I can do that when I do the character infoboxes. </p> <hr><figure class="article-thumb tright show-info-icon" style="width: 180px">
<figcaption> </figcaption></figure><p>I wanted to run another design idea by you all. I'd like to consider moving the "edit" link in the infobox (seen in this screenshot) to a less obtrusive icon (that also won't show up in mobile). The proposed icons are:
</p>
<p>I'll go back to those and get them consistent. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>for characters in lesser canon, like movies, if they use jutsu that is from manga, anime, novel, and canon movies, it doesn't show up in their character infobox. For example, Hiruko (missing-nin) uses Projection Technique, Big Ball Rasengan, and Lightning Cutter, but they don't show up in his character infobox. </p> </i></div>
<p>To clarify: if a given character is ONLY in games and / or non-canonical movies, you want to show all jutsu in their character article's infobox, and show them without a clarifier like <sup>(Movie only)</sup> (because that would be redundant). Correct? If so, I can do that when I do the character infoboxes. </p> <hr><figure class="article-thumb tright show-info-icon" style="width: 180px">
<figcaption> </figcaption></figure><p>I wanted to run another design idea by you all. I'd like to consider moving the "edit" link in the infobox (seen in this screenshot) to a less obtrusive icon (that also won't show up in mobile). The proposed icons are:
</p>
- an eye icon for "Browse" of the semantic data (though we could just as easily add that to the edit dropdown)
- an image icon for image search, currently placed up against the title.
- a pencil icon for form editing — It's actually redundant, given the "Edit with form" button for the article, but you may not want to get rid of it altogether.
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>Please confirm that the <kbd>~movie</kbd> / <kbd>~movie canon</kbd> behavior above is the expected behavior.
</p>
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Jutsu derivation in Chidori looks and functions like it should. As a manga and anime jutsu, it shows "children" and "grandchildren" jutsu that appear in the those media, and the "derived jutsu" title of the section links to a query that shows every "children" jutsu, but not "grandchildren" jutsu across all media. In Chidori Sharp Spear, while there is no derived jutsu in manga and anime, it does have in games. While the list should be empty in the article, the "derived jutsu" link to the query should still show up, where the "children" jutsu would be listed.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I've made a fix to this. Tell me what you think about it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Other stuff I've noticed, for the forms and infoboxes that have been updated, unnamed jutsu are not showing up in italic. When a certain specific jutsu is defined, but has no official name, it is simply tagged as unnamed. The italic is our shorthand for unnamed things, like jutsu, character, tools and teams. For example, Water Release: Hiding in Water Technique is unnamed, but in chapter and episode articles showing its debut, it's not showing up in italic, giving the impression it's a named jutsu. It remains in italic when showing up in other not yet updated forms. </p> </i></div>
<p>Should be fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>What else? Air dates are not showing up for episodes in List of Animated Media. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>And since you're making changes anyway, issues and inconsistencies we've had for a while that no one has been able to fix as far as I'm aware of: italics not being applied to certain unnamed things in infoboxes, like teams in character infoboxes; for characters in lesser canon, like movies, if they use jutsu that is from manga, anime, novel, and canon movies, it doesn't show up in their character infobox. For example, Hiruko (missing-nin) uses Projection Technique, Big Ball Rasengan, and Lightning Cutter, but they don't show up in his character infobox. I believe that has something to do with the movie/canon movie situation WindStar7125 has explained above. </p> </i></div>
<p>I haven't deployed character infoboxes yet, but I can pursue either solution if I know what you're looking for. I can include additional media appearances or do a similar solution in this case to Derived Jutsu where the current set is shown (plus canonical movies) and a link to show the non-canonical appearances. </p>
<p>I've made a fix to this. Tell me what you think about it. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Other stuff I've noticed, for the forms and infoboxes that have been updated, unnamed jutsu are not showing up in italic. When a certain specific jutsu is defined, but has no official name, it is simply tagged as unnamed. The italic is our shorthand for unnamed things, like jutsu, character, tools and teams. For example, Water Release: Hiding in Water Technique is unnamed, but in chapter and episode articles showing its debut, it's not showing up in italic, giving the impression it's a named jutsu. It remains in italic when showing up in other not yet updated forms. </p> </i></div>
<p>Should be fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>What else? Air dates are not showing up for episodes in List of Animated Media. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>And since you're making changes anyway, issues and inconsistencies we've had for a while that no one has been able to fix as far as I'm aware of: italics not being applied to certain unnamed things in infoboxes, like teams in character infoboxes; for characters in lesser canon, like movies, if they use jutsu that is from manga, anime, novel, and canon movies, it doesn't show up in their character infobox. For example, Hiruko (missing-nin) uses Projection Technique, Big Ball Rasengan, and Lightning Cutter, but they don't show up in his character infobox. I believe that has something to do with the movie/canon movie situation WindStar7125 has explained above. </p> </i></div>
<p>I haven't deployed character infoboxes yet, but I can pursue either solution if I know what you're looking for. I can include additional media appearances or do a similar solution in this case to Derived Jutsu where the current set is shown (plus canonical movies) and a link to show the non-canonical appearances. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>WindStar7125 wrote:
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I'm admittedly a bit confused here as to what the desired behavior is, and want to make sure I have this right. </p><p>To confirm: </p>
PAGE TITLE
IMAGE
KANJI/ROMAJI (in translation template) </p> </i></div>
<figure class="article-thumb tright show-info-icon" style="width: 180px">
<figcaption> <p class="caption">Common display, default skin</p> </figcaption></figure><p>As mentioned above, there are both semantic (they are equivalent titles in a different language (which happens to be the source language), and therefore should be equal in terms of placement and size) and UX (putting titles / names for the same thing should be clustered near each other) reasons for placing them together consistently. These are true titles, rather than key/value pairs. Because they describe the object, rather than the images (specifically) or subobjects, placing them at the topic makes more topological sense. The text for English and Japanese titles was previously below the size threshold for basic readability but is now at 14px (the same as paragraph text in the body of the article). Therefore, I would dispute that it is "too much large text too close to each other". Smaller label width would indeed cause words like "Classification" to be broken onto two lines, but a smaller font-size would also begin to present legibility problems (12px is the UX threshold, for both English and Japanese text).
</p><p>As for the infobox size itself, our research shows that 270px is pretty optimal for desktop screens (and most wiki authors seem to agree as it's the <abbr title="mode">most common</abbr>, <abbr title="mean">average</abbr>, and <abbr title="median">most moderate</abbr> size of infoboxes surveyed throughout the network). It's pretty well balanced on Fandom's default skin (which you really should try).
</p>
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Something functional I've noticed. Before, when a manga/anime jutsu had derived jutsu in a lower canon, while it wasn't listed in the infobox, the infobox did contain a piped link reading "derived jutsu" to a query that listed the derived jutsu, like there is for jutsu and tools in character infoboxes at the moment, with those listing all the jutsu and tools used by the character regardless of medium. This was something that made game, movie, and novel jutsu easier to find. For example, Chidori True Spear is derived from Chidori Sharp Spear, but since there is no longer the link to the query, nothing in the CSS articles indicates the existence of CTS. The link still shows up and has that function for jutsu that do have manga and anime derived jutsu, like Rasengan and Chidori.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>I'm unclear what the difference is that you'd like to indicate between Chidori's </p>
<p>I'm admittedly a bit confused here as to what the desired behavior is, and want to make sure I have this right. </p><p>To confirm: </p>
- <kbd>~movie</kbd> in a jutsu's
users=should display in the jutsu's "Users" as <sup>(Movie only)</sup>. - <kbd>~movie</kbd> in a jutsu's
users=should not display in the user's "Jutsu". - <kbd>~movie canon</kbd> in a jutsu's
users=should display in the jutsu's "Users" as <sup>(Movie only)</sup>. - <kbd>~movie canon</kbd> in a jutsu's
users=should display in the user's "Jutsu" without any special qualifier (such as <sup>(Movie only)</sup>).
PAGE TITLE
IMAGE
KANJI/ROMAJI (in translation template) </p> </i></div>
<figure class="article-thumb tright show-info-icon" style="width: 180px">
<figcaption> <p class="caption">Common display, default skin</p> </figcaption></figure><p>As mentioned above, there are both semantic (they are equivalent titles in a different language (which happens to be the source language), and therefore should be equal in terms of placement and size) and UX (putting titles / names for the same thing should be clustered near each other) reasons for placing them together consistently. These are true titles, rather than key/value pairs. Because they describe the object, rather than the images (specifically) or subobjects, placing them at the topic makes more topological sense. The text for English and Japanese titles was previously below the size threshold for basic readability but is now at 14px (the same as paragraph text in the body of the article). Therefore, I would dispute that it is "too much large text too close to each other". Smaller label width would indeed cause words like "Classification" to be broken onto two lines, but a smaller font-size would also begin to present legibility problems (12px is the UX threshold, for both English and Japanese text).
</p><p>As for the infobox size itself, our research shows that 270px is pretty optimal for desktop screens (and most wiki authors seem to agree as it's the <abbr title="mode">most common</abbr>, <abbr title="mean">average</abbr>, and <abbr title="median">most moderate</abbr> size of infoboxes surveyed throughout the network). It's pretty well balanced on Fandom's default skin (which you really should try).
</p>
<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Something functional I've noticed. Before, when a manga/anime jutsu had derived jutsu in a lower canon, while it wasn't listed in the infobox, the infobox did contain a piped link reading "derived jutsu" to a query that listed the derived jutsu, like there is for jutsu and tools in character infoboxes at the moment, with those listing all the jutsu and tools used by the character regardless of medium. This was something that made game, movie, and novel jutsu easier to find. For example, Chidori True Spear is derived from Chidori Sharp Spear, but since there is no longer the link to the query, nothing in the CSS articles indicates the existence of CTS. The link still shows up and has that function for jutsu that do have manga and anime derived jutsu, like Rasengan and Chidori.
</p>
</i></div><p>I'm unclear what the difference is that you'd like to indicate between Chidori's </p>
- Chidori Current
parent jutsu=Chidori|jutsu media=Anime, Manga, Novel, Game- Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
parent jutsu=Chidori Current|jutsu media=Anime, Manga, Novel, Game
- Sword of Kusanagi: Chidori Katana
- Chidori Sharp Spear
parent jutsu=Chidori|jutsu media=Anime, Manga, Game- Chidori True Spear
parent jutsu=Chidori Sharp Spear|jutsu media=Game
- Chidori True Spear
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>WindStar7125 wrote:
</p><p>I presume this is a move for consistency (which I have no issues with) across infoboxes, since the Volume infobox, unlike others, has displayed the triad of names above the image before the proposal? Or are there other reasons too for this move?
</p>
</i></div>
<p>There are minor semantic / UX reasons, but this is mostly for consistency. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>WindStar7125 wrote: Aside from that,
<p>Yes, though it may take a day or two. </p>
<p>There are minor semantic / UX reasons, but this is mostly for consistency. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>WindStar7125 wrote: Aside from that,
~movie canon works no differently than ~movie and should still display <sup>(Movie only)</sup> in the jutsu infobox. If I recall correctly, UltimateSupreme is the one who implemented this when canon movies became a thing, so can you fix this please?
</p>
</i></div><p>Yes, though it may take a day or two. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>I'm seeing it on a single line, but this might be a good time to rename that to "Jutsu Type".
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Munchvtec wrote:
Not sure if it's been mentioned, and I don't feel like reading everything here, so I'll just ask anyway. In the Technique Infoboxes, the 'n' in 'classification' doesn't fit, placing it below the rest of the word. Can this be fixed?
</p>
</i></div>
<p>Can you provide a screenshot and a link? </p>
<p>Can you provide a screenshot and a link? </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Seelentau wrote:
Could you change "Airing" to "Air date" please?
</p>
</i></div>
<p>Done. </p>
<p>Done. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Something not quite right with the volume form, see any volume page to see some extra code showing up, and no inclusion of chapter summaries.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>WindStar7125 wrote: Another issue: the infobox in this chapter article links to an anime episode despite there being no anime adaptation for the respective chapter. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Omnibender wrote: Something else I discovered that I don't know if it's temporary is that the ai rdates have vanished in arc pages. Go to the Academy Entrance Arc page linked in this episode, or any page in Category:Arcs save Plot of Naruto, every one that has episode lists lacks air dates. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p>
- Extra code fixed in the draft.
- Chapter summaries still aren't working, and I'll figure this out before reinstalling the draft.
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>WindStar7125 wrote: Another issue: the infobox in this chapter article links to an anime episode despite there being no anime adaptation for the respective chapter. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Omnibender wrote: Something else I discovered that I don't know if it's temporary is that the ai rdates have vanished in arc pages. Go to the Academy Entrance Arc page linked in this episode, or any page in Category:Arcs save Plot of Naruto, every one that has episode lists lacks air dates. </p> </i></div>
<p>Fixed. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>The Arc page airdates are fixed. But I'll definitely try to fix the Boruto issue, which is causing the Metal Lee Goes Wild links to be incorrect.
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>WindStar7125 wrote:
Another issue: the infobox in this chapter article links to an anime episode despite there being no anime adaptation for the respective chapter.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>That's another Naruto / Boruto confusion that I'll square away tomorrow. </p>
<p>That's another Naruto / Boruto confusion that I'll square away tomorrow. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
Boruto episodes are showing links to original Naruto episodes in the previous and next fields.
</p>
</i></div>
<p>Can you show a link on where you see this? Metal Lee Goes Wild! looks fine. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Minamoto15 wrote: I dig the overall look of the info boxes, but are the images always going look this big, or can that adjusted to fit the sleeker design we’ve always had? Maybe it’s just me.... </p> </i></div>
<p>The images are sized to meet the width of the infobox, which is a little different in dimension. They're resampled to be optimal at that size. In many cases, that's actually smaller at 270px than the classic infobox's 300px. Interesting feedback that you think they look bigger when they're actually smaller. 😀 </p>
<p>Can you show a link on where you see this? Metal Lee Goes Wild! looks fine. </p> <div class="quote"><i> <p>Minamoto15 wrote: I dig the overall look of the info boxes, but are the images always going look this big, or can that adjusted to fit the sleeker design we’ve always had? Maybe it’s just me.... </p> </i></div>
<p>The images are sized to meet the width of the infobox, which is a little different in dimension. They're resampled to be optimal at that size. In many cases, that's actually smaller at 270px than the classic infobox's 300px. Interesting feedback that you think they look bigger when they're actually smaller. 😀 </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>That's easy enough to adjust. How would you feel about placing the (full-width) Kanji/Kana+Romaji title fields above the image immediately after the English title?
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<div class="quote"><i>
<p>Omnibender wrote:
</p>
Something not quite right with the volume form, see any volume page to see some extra code showing up, and no inclusion of chapter summaries.</i></div>
Yep, I saw that after I started rechecking. I've reverted it and taken it back to Draft form. I think it's not understanding the difference between Naruto and Boruto, to start.<div class="quote"><i>In tools volume, the other name field is being rendered different from before, instead of being another entry under names, it's sort of a subclass of its own, see Kubikiribōchō. </i></div>
<p>That was intentional. See Thread:269574#17. I'd like to consolidate the names that are in that format. </p>
Yep, I saw that after I started rechecking. I've reverted it and taken it back to Draft form. I think it's not understanding the difference between Naruto and Boruto, to start.<div class="quote"><i>In tools volume, the other name field is being rendered different from before, instead of being another entry under names, it's sort of a subclass of its own, see Kubikiribōchō. </i></div>
<p>That was intentional. See Thread:269574#17. I'd like to consolidate the names that are in that format. </p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>Since there were no other flaws identified in your testing or mine, I have started rolling a couple of these out. Let me know if there are issues.
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>Yes, I would like to. Now that we're agreed in principle to move forward, let's make a different thread (or put on my Talk page) the flaws you guys are seeing in the Drafts that are here, so that they can be corrected before deployment. Let's do that before rolling out the next batch.
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>I haven't talked to UltimateSupreme directly in several months, but PIs have been part of the plan for over a year.
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)
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<p>It's been over a month since this post launched, and about two weeks since the last reply. I'm interpreting Dantman's response as "yes, so long as SMW works". UltimateSupreme gave a go-ahead in other internal communications when he was a part of Vanguard. Can we move ahead at this point?
</p>
(Edited by FishTank)