- Pain & Konan
- Itachi & Kisame
- Sasori & Deidara
- Sasori & Orochimaru
- Deidara & Goofball Tobi
- Kakuzu & Hidan
- Obito & Zetsu
- Pain & Konan
- Itachi & Kisame
- Sasori & Deidara
- Sasori & Orochimaru
- Deidara & Goofball Tobi
- Kakuzu & Hidan
- Obito & Zetsu
Itachi vs Six paths Sasuke and six paths Naruto is interesting. Yata mirror would stop Amenotejikara in it's tracks. But Itachi has to elevate to complete body susano'o first. He can end up dying to the pincer attack naruto and sasuke used against juubidara before the mirror comes out, because he doesn't have any intel on sasuke's new technique. but that assumes Sasuke would use Ameno immediately, would he?
CombatIQmatters wrote: Itachi vs Six paths Sasuke and six paths Naruto is interesting. Yata mirror would stop Amenotejikara in it's tracks. But Itachi has to elevate to complete body susano'o first. He can end up dying to the pincer attack naruto and sasuke used against juubidara before the mirror comes out, because he doesn't have any intel on sasuke's new technique. but that assumes Sasuke would use Ameno immediately, would he?
Naruto could use the entrapping Rasengan to stop the susanoo from developing completely
CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai The reason I said you are biased is for a few reasons. One, you keep putting words in my mouth. I said Itachi is only invincible while he is wielding both the blade and the mirror, as stated in the canon. How is that so hard to understand? Seriously, reread all my posts. If you think I'm being judgmental, then I'll tone down my posts, but if you actually stopped putting words in my mouth that would be nice.
I stated from the beginning, Itachi has two major weaknesses. He doesn't start in susano'o. If you are fast enough, you can blitz him before he activates it. Two, he has shit stamina and a terminal illness, which means he isn't holding up the mirror long enough against multiple high level opponents. He will succumb to his stamina and die eventually.
It doesn't matter if Itachi is your favorite character or not. Our discussion is about the abilities of the Yata Mirror. The point is the Yata mirror turns back any attack, full stop. The reason I said you were biased was because you made predictable comments like: "You really that delusioned to think Naruto and Sasuke at this current time can't beat Itachi while his Susano'o is up? Sheesh." What does the current Naruto and Sasuke have to do with the shown feats and description of the Yata mirror, absolutely nothing.
No I don't have to prove anything. The bottomline is, Itachi has bound those weapons to his susano'o. There is no evidence that he can currently wield them without it, even if that was the case when he originally found those weapons. The burden of proof is on you to claim that he can. The fact that he doesn't wield them 24/7 would imply there is a cost. Even if there is none, Itachi made the conscious decision to bind them to his susano'o, which costs chakra to maintain. Kunai, swords, and shurikens aren't the same as a spiritual weapon. Paper bombs cost chakra, and any other relevant tool of a similiar category does. The proof is that he didn't use the yata mirror to block kirin. Going by your logic, he could have simply spawned the yata mirror out of his ass and blocked the attack, yet he clearly attributed his survival to his susano'o. That in of itself proves that he must achieve the complete body susano'o before he can wield the mirror, end of story. There isn't even physical evidence that he managed to elevate that far. In my opinion, he only got up to the skeletal susano'o based on all the evidence.
More putting words in my mouth. When did I state that growing and moving are the exact same thing? nowhere. I simply said the mirror grows to adapt to the attack, and if it must, it can move on it's own based on the databook description. It wasn't seen moving in the canon because that wasn't a necessary adapation, growing in size satisfied itachi's needs.
Furthermore, you missed the context of what I said. The mirror clearly was seen moving because it has the sfx:whoosh, which means rapid movement through the air. Again, Chapter 393 pg 6. The mirror rapidly expanded in height, and in this CONTEXT, movement refers to the shield shrinking through the air back to it's normal size. The shield grew but growing and shrinking through the air is a type of movement.
How am I supposed to take you seriously when you can't understand alternative uses for English words. Furthermore, you come at me even suggesting that I would use fake translations to support my argument, when you still haven't accessed the Viz scans and looked up the sfx dictionary for yourself. Like I said, the physical copies of naruto come with a sfx guide. If you don't have a physical copy, then I don't know what to tell you, there are plenty of methods online that you can use to get access to the information. I don't want you claiming I'm using false info, I want you to see it for yourself on your own accord. If you needed assistance, then you should have asked or gotten the resources before blurting out your claims.
Furthermore, Like I said, Kishimoto is right until proven wrong. I don't care about the databook claiming genin sasuke was light speed in reactions, because that was debunked well before that databook entry came out. The databook always has hyperbolic entries, and entries designed for trolling, like claiming sasuke has god like speed and can take on all the akatsuki, while on the same page showing his godlike speed being reacted to. There is a difference between those types of entries and entries that are supported by the manga and have not been debunked in any shape or form.
I don't care about your subjective views about how you judge character credibility. Everyone has been wrong about something, period. Kabuto himself was the one who claimed hirzuen was the strongest and kabuto retracted that statment when he admitted he didn't know about hashirama's true power. The Fact that the databook and shown feats support Black Zetsu's statement debunks your claim. Kishimoto said the shield turns back any attack by altering it's attributes in accordance with the attack in his databook, so he is right until proven wrong.
Lol, and anyone who has watched Itachi's feats knows that Jiraiya isn't even a match for even a serious 3 tomoe Itachi. Jiraiya can't track his clone formation speeds, so he is gonna get stomped by an exploding shadow clone. Everyone knows Itachi was playing the role of a spy when he told kisame that Jiraiya was too much for Kisame + Itachi+ reinforcements. Kisame himself knew that, because after they retreated, he said to itachi "why did we have to retreat, with your power...?". Lmao, even Kisame knows itachi was jobbing to Jiraiya. Rofl, even Kisame alone is enough to beat Jiraiya. Kisame thought Jiraiya was stronger than him based on hype, but he didn't know what Jiraiya was actually capable of. In an actual fight Kisame would literally suck Jiraiya dry. Lion's mane? drained by samehada. Rasengan? drained by samehada. Suiton>katon. Sage mode is irrelevant because Kisame would drain jiraiya dry before he got the chance to turn kisame into stone. Jiriaya would have to fill Kisame with nature energy amounting to the size of Kisame's reserves, and Kisame in base has bijuu levels of chakra. Jiraiya is dead before that happens. With just two sword strikes, Kisame literally absorbed all of Killer Bee's chakra, to the point Killer Bee had to rely purely on Gyuki's chakra to fight Kisame, which says alot. Kisame and Itachi one versus one are two beasts out of Jiraiya's league, so Kisame and Itachi against Jiraiya is pure spite.
This is why I said you were biased, because you bring up statements that were clearly debunked by other statements and shown feats, which comes across like You are grasping at straws. But anyways, I did get a bit hotheaded, So I apologize.
Bruh. The viz doesn't have an sfx guide. I looked it up from up to down. Volume to volume. Literally sound effects aren't described in the Viz. If you have proof, post it. If not, I have nothing to discuss on the matter. I did the research and the research shows you're wrong. Nothing I can do about it.
Why couldn't Itachi wield them? They're items. Not Chakra weapons. Not Kekkei Genkai. What argument do you have that comes from the canon that even remotely hints that he cannot? There is absolutely no reason to even say that you can't wield them. I already made valid points. Orochimaru. They're items. All you have given is just made up stories on the matter. Nothing stemming from the canon. I'm supposed to trust in wild theories? No.
Kishimoto didn't say what you say he did. I don't know why you exaggerate. https://i.imgur.com/fGXONDB.png He said what i said he said. It can repel any attack. Can was used. A shield can block doesn't mean it does it on it's own. A sword can stab someone, doesn't mean it goes around stabbing on it's own. The Yata Mirror can repel any attack, doesn't mean it does it on it's own. I don't know why you don't understand the basics of literature. Zetsu's and the Databook's entry are not proof it can move on it's own accord.
You can call me biased all you want. You can say i put words in your mouth all you want. You said growth is proof it can move on it's own.Don't act ignorant. All I've said so far was exactly what you have said. If not, then you worded yourself wrong, cause I'm clearly not the only one taking it that way.
Although I agree that Itachi can beat Jiraiya, I doubt he would only need three tomoe. That's equivalent to saying he would beat Jiraiya with ease, and that is another reason why the Itachi fan community has such a bad rep. I doubt Jiraiya could be done in by a simple clone tactic. You're making him sound like an Academy Student whose intelligence is far lesser than Itachi's. I also don't think Kisame can beat him. Sage Mode Jiraiya is not some pushover fodder lesser than Kakashi.
@JamesSenpai Blatant ignorance. You yourself cited the databook scan, yet you missed the statement of the mirror "power to change any one of it's physical properties". That is enough proof that it can move if it needs to.
I didn't word myself wrong at all. Like I said, for the umpteenth time, growing and changing in size is a type of movemement, as the author clearly shows you the sfx:whoosh on the mirror on the same page it is decreasing in size back to normal. You are the one acting ignorant, and the reason you still don't get it is because you still haven't accessed the sfx guide. It's not surprising you don't understand the clear English coming out of my keyboard when you literally don't understand the context of my statements. When an object grows in size rapidly, that is considered a type of movement. As choji grows with his expansion jutsu, he is literally displacing all the air above him. The same thing happens when you clearly see kcm naruto's chakra arms growing out from him and there are movement lines drawn on the chakra arm...
IF you truly accessed the Viz like you claimed, you can clearly see the SFX:whoosh there on the manga page. So Idk what to tell you. How hard is it to research what the SFX:whoosh means and confirm what I said? These dictionaries exist online even if you didn't get a physical copy from a bookstore, and even just now I googled a dictionary that says the same thing. http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/search/?keyword=Sfx%3Awhoosh&submitSearch=Search+SFX&x= Sfx:whoosh = swift or fast motion, clearly shown at the bottom of the page on this site. Then, since you supposedly have accessed the Viz scans, the sfx:whoosh is clearly shown on the page I referenced. If after this post, you still somehow don't get it, then I'm confident you are biased. I used the correct translation and I gave you the definition multiple times.
Yes Itachi only needs 3 tomoe to defeat Jiraiya. I use feats to support my arguments, so spare me the nonsense about the "itachi fan community having a bad rep". It only has a bad rep with people who refuse to look at feats critically. Itachi is second only to hashirama when it comes to clone feinting. Itachi literally clone feinted Sage mode kabuto multiple times, yet base Jiraiya is tracking his clone formations? yeah right. Second of all, Itachi is a genius. Jiraiya is smart and creative but he isn't on Itachi's level, period. Anyone who thinks that obviously needs to reread the whole manga. Itachi is literally the second greatest genjutsu user of all time behind shisui, not including those with the ten tails. He can kill Jiraiya in 2 moves. Superior hand seal speed, first of all. Jiraiya won't even know when Itachi has made a move because he lacks a sharingan, not that it helped kakashi and sasuke lmao. On the flip side, Itachi can easily grasp insight into Jiraiya's jutsu formation with his own sharingan. So Itachi can steal initiative in the fight and cast his hand seals the moment he sees jiraiya starting his own handseals, and Itachi's jutsu will still go off first, and there is literally no opening technique in Jiraiya's arsenal that Itachi doesn't have an answer for. So, Finger genjutsu followed by exploding shadow clone wins the fight before it begins. Jiraiya can break the genjutsu but as soon as he does, the clone will already be behind him. Itachi is faster in every way-better jutsu speed, better movement speed, better reflexes, and he has better hax in general, and that isn't even including all his mangeyko hax. Jiraiya isn't on Itachi's level.
Rofl. Kisame is an antimeta swordsman. If you haven't paid attention, samehada is very long in length it's essentially as tall as Kisame is. Furthermore, on top of that, samehada has shown the ability to grow in length by elongating the handle. A battle starts at the most, 30 feet away. With his sword length, Kisame literally only has to cover less than 2/3s of that distance thanks to the reach of samehada. Then on TOP of that, samehada doesn't even need direct physical contact to start absorbing chakra/ninjutsu. Base Jiraiya has no running speed feats (especially backward running feats, and backward running is slower than forward running) to suggest he is any faster than Kisame. So Kisame will chase him down and control the distance with his longsword. You also clearly didn't watch the parts of the canon that showed why swordsmen are antimeta to ninjutsu users because kenjutsu>handsigns. Kisame adds a whole new level to that because even if you get a ninjutsu off before he closes the distance, samehada simply absorbs it. When Kisame charges, Jiraiya is smart enough to know he can't let kisame get into Close range, or jiraiya loses the fight right then and there, because he has no way of escaping or dealing with samehada without access to sage mode. Kisame is physically stronger, more durable, and jiraiya isn't might guy, he isn't beating kisame in Close quarters combat, and his ninjutsu are useless to chakra absorption. Kisame has already shown the ability to even interrupt summoning jutsu. Jiraiya is most likely gonna do what he did to Pain and use a smoke bomb to escape when Kisame charges, so that he can use his guerrilla tactics and stall to enter sage mode. Except, Kisame then has initiative to summon the water dome, fuse with his sword, activating his sensing abilities, and the fight is over. Jiraiya has no way of escaping Kisamehada in the water dome, period. It's highly unlikely that Jiraiya even gets the chance to enter sage mode before Kisame drains him to death.
And you are using abc logic. Base jiraiya can beat kakashi, but kakashi has a much higher chance of defeating kisame compared to base jiraya because he has two things samehada can't stop: genjutsu and kamui. Jiriaya needs to get into sage mode first before he can utilize any genjutsu. Kakashi (depending on the variant) has a decent chance to steal a win against kisame with a genjutsu + kamui more times than not, because he too knows too much about samehada to be stupid enough to try using raikiri on Kisame without a plan. Kisame is likely skilled enough to break kakashi's genjutsu but depending on the variant of kakashi (early war arc kakashi has enough aiming proficiency and chakra reserves to effectively utilize kamui in battle) snipe Kisame's head off just as kisame breaks the genjutsu, and he can do those two moves when kisame tries to close the distance on him.
CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai Blatant ignorance. You yourself cited the databook scan, yet you missed the statement of the mirror "power to change any one of it's physical properties". That is enough proof that it can move if it needs to.
I didn't word myself wrong at all. Like I said, for the umpteenth time, growing and changing in size is a type of movemement, as the author clearly shows you the sfx:whoosh on the mirror on the same page it is decreasing in size back to normal. You are the one acting ignorant, and the reason you still don't get it is because you still haven't accessed the sfx guide. It's not surprising you don't understand the clear English coming out of my keyboard when you literally don't understand the context of my statements. When an object grows in size rapidly, that is considered a type of movement. As choji grows with his expansion jutsu, he is literally displacing all the air above him. The same thing happens when you clearly see kcm naruto's chakra arms growing out from him and there are movement lines drawn on the chakra arm...
IF you truly accessed the Viz like you claimed, you can clearly see the SFX:whoosh there on the manga page. So Idk what to tell you. How hard is it to research what the SFX:whoosh means and confirm what I said? These dictionaries exist online even if you didn't get a physical copy from a bookstore, and even just now I googled a dictionary that says the same thing. http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/search/?keyword=Sfx%3Awhoosh&submitSearch=Search+SFX&x= Sfx:whoosh = swift or fast motion, clearly shown at the bottom of the page on this site. Then, since you supposedly have accessed the Viz scans, the sfx:whoosh is clearly shown on the page I referenced. If after this post, you still somehow don't get it, then I'm confident you are biased. I used the correct translation and I gave you the definition multiple times.
Yes Itachi only needs 3 tomoe to defeat Jiraiya. I use feats to support my arguments, so spare me the nonsense about the "itachi fan community having a bad rep". It only has a bad rep with people who refuse to look at feats critically. Itachi is second only to hashirama when it comes to clone feinting. Itachi literally clone feinted Sage mode kabuto multiple times, yet base Jiraiya is tracking his clone formations? yeah right. Second of all, Itachi is a genius. Jiraiya is smart and creative but he isn't on Itachi's level, period. Anyone who thinks that obviously needs to reread the whole manga. Itachi is literally the second greatest genjutsu user of all time behind shisui, not including those with the ten tails. He can kill Jiraiya in 2 moves. Superior hand seal speed, first of all. Jiraiya won't even know when Itachi has made a move because he lacks a sharingan, not that it helped kakashi and sasuke lmao. On the flip side, Itachi can easily grasp insight into Jiraiya's jutsu formation with his own sharingan. So Itachi can steal initiative in the fight and cast his hand seals the moment he sees jiraiya starting his own handseals, and Itachi's jutsu will still go off first, and there is literally no opening technique in Jiraiya's arsenal that Itachi doesn't have an answer for. So, Finger genjutsu followed by exploding shadow clone wins the fight before it begins. Jiraiya can break the genjutsu but as soon as he does, the clone will already be behind him. Itachi is faster in every way-better jutsu speed, better movement speed, better reflexes, and he has better hax in general, and that isn't even including all his mangeyko hax. Jiraiya isn't on Itachi's level.
Rofl. Kisame is an antimeta swordsman. If you haven't paid attention, samehada is very long in length it's essentially as tall as Kisame is. Furthermore, on top of that, samehada has shown the ability to grow in length by elongating the handle. A battle starts at the most, 30 feet away. With his sword length, Kisame literally only has to cover less than 2/3s of that distance thanks to the reach of samehada. Then on TOP of that, samehada doesn't even need direct physical contact to start absorbing chakra/ninjutsu. Base Jiraiya has no running speed feats (especially backward running feats, and backward running is slower than forward running) to suggest he is any faster than Kisame. So Kisame will chase him down and control the distance with his longsword. You also clearly didn't watch the parts of the canon that showed why swordsmen are antimeta to ninjutsu users because kenjutsu>handsigns. Kisame adds a whole new level to that because even if you get a ninjutsu off before he closes the distance, samehada simply absorbs it. When Kisame charges, Jiraiya is smart enough to know he can't let kisame get into Close range, or jiraiya loses the fight right then and there, because he has no way of escaping or dealing with samehada without access to sage mode. Kisame is physically stronger, more durable, and jiraiya isn't might guy, he isn't beating kisame in Close quarters combat, and his ninjutsu are useless to chakra absorption. Kisame has already shown the ability to even interrupt summoning jutsu. Jiraiya is most likely gonna do what he did to Pain and use a smoke bomb to escape when Kisame charges, so that he can use his guerrilla tactics and stall to enter sage mode. Except, Kisame then has initiative to summon the water dome, fuse with his sword, activating his sensing abilities, and the fight is over. Jiraiya has no way of escaping Kisamehada in the water dome, period. It's highly unlikely that Jiraiya even gets the chance to enter sage mode before Kisame drains him to death.
And you are using abc logic. Base jiraiya can beat kakashi, but kakashi has a much higher chance of defeating kisame compared to base jiraya because he has two things samehada can't stop: genjutsu and kamui. Jiriaya needs to get into sage mode first before he can utilize any genjutsu. Kakashi (depending on the variant) has a decent chance to steal a win against kisame with a genjutsu + kamui more times than not, because he too knows too much about samehada to be stupid enough to try using raikiri on Kisame without a plan. Kisame is likely skilled enough to break kakashi's genjutsu but depending on the variant of kakashi (early war arc kakashi has enough aiming proficiency and chakra reserves to effectively utilize kamui in battle) snipe Kisame's head off just as kisame breaks the genjutsu, and he can do those two moves when kisame tries to close the distance on him.
Properties are the things it's made of. Not what it can do. Where is your proof it can move?
No it isn't. Growing is not a type of movement at all. It's growing. It's taking up more space. Not moving spaces. Movement is going from one place to another. If I swing my arm to the left it has moved from where it was to the left. If I jump up then I moved up. If the shield never left it's place but covered more space then it didn't move from that spot. So it isn't movement since it's still in that spot. Do I really need to pull up a dictionary on you? A simple google search will show you, you have to change locations in order for it to be considered movement.
Viz isn't something illegal to post on here, i looked it up. So I'm calling you out on lying. https://imgur.com/a/DIuRY9F There is no sfx guide on this page or any other page. Anyone can easily find that out since Viz gives you free previews and on the app can earn a some free stuff. Even some Mangas such as Boruto are even free entirely but none have this so called sfx guide. None of the volumes of the entire series in Naruto on the site has an sfx guide, and anyone can check with just the free previews alone. So why are you making up stories? I'm done talking to you cause you have proven too me, you are not someone trustworthy and lie about things for what, to win a debate? Sad. I'm done here.
@JamesSenpai
I showed you clear evidence of your bias. you could easily find plenty of sfx guides online, I just found one and showed it to you and ignored it. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall at this point. I also very clearly stated that the PHYSICAL COPY of the manga has it in bookstores or they exist in a similar section, because I have seen them for other manga, I didn't tell you to use whatever website you are on. What, you think Sfx guides don't exist ? how else do people translate the sound effects? you are just being an idiot. And no I don't have to post Viz scans, because you clearly have access to the resources yourself. Get your self the manga and the sfx guide your goddam self before calling other people liars. >Doesn't have access to Viz, wants other users to post the resources for them because too lazy to do it themselves. Any admin watching this thread could verify my claims. This is what I have been saying the whole time, your reading comprehension baffles me. So I could care less what you think of me. The manga speaks for itself.The shield clearly expanded and has the appropriate SFX in the Viz. Momentum is a property of an object, guess you also don't understand physics either. Momentum = mass times velocity. Velocity being changed means the movement can be changed, it's that simple.
Waste of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't understand what I'm saying, then out here with these false accusations.... smh.
And where do the rules say that I'm required to help a biased user get access to resources? nowhere. so get out of here with that.
Someday, when you get some common sense and actually get yourself a copy of the actual manga before spouting your claims and look into how the sound effect translations and what they mean, I hope you realize how wrong you were when you look at Chapter 393 pg 6. Good day.
CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai
I showed you clear evidence of your bias. you could easily find plenty of sfx guides online, I just found one and showed it to you and ignored it. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall at this point. I also very clearly stated that the PHYSICAL COPY of the manga has it in bookstores or they exist in a similar section, because I have seen them for other manga, I didn't tell you to use whatever website you are on. What, you think Sfx guides don't exist ? how else do people translate the sound effects? you are just being an idiot. And no I don't have to post Viz scans, because you clearly have access to the resources yourself. Get your self the manga and the sfx guide your goddam self before calling other people liars. >Doesn't have access to Viz, wants other users to post the resources for them because too lazy to do it themselves. Any admin watching this thread could verify my claims. This is what I have been saying the whole time, your reading comprehension baffles me. So I could care less what you think of me. The manga speaks for itself.The shield clearly expanded and has the appropriate SFX in the Viz. Momentum is a property of an object, guess you also don't understand physics either. Momentum = mass times velocity. Velocity being changed means the movement can be changed, it's that simple.
Waste of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't understand what I'm saying, then out here with these false accusations.... smh.
And where do the rules say that I'm required to help a biased user get access to resources? nowhere. so get out of here with that.
Someday, when you get some common sense and actually get yourself a copy of the actual manga before spouting your claims and look into how the sound effect translations and what they mean, I hope you realize how wrong you were when you look at Chapter 393 pg 6. Good day.
Fake news. I posted a screenshot of the Viz which hasn't been taken down for the a reason. It would of been taken down by the admins if it wasn't the legit translation according to the rule page. I made sure to look it up before posting cause I seen others getting told that wasn't allowed. Nice try buckaroo. You got caught lying. You don't own anything from the Viz. Dueces Talltales. You using that "buy yourself" crap isn't working. Everyone can see my viz screenshot, where's yours? In fairytale land.