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(Obito + New Databook Info: new section)
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:Bump2--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 15:57, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 
:Bump2--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 15:57, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 
::I've asked Seelentau in the databook translation thread. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:51, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
 
::I've asked Seelentau in the databook translation thread. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:51, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
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I’ve asked Seelantau about this, and there is only overwhelming silence on Juugo’s kekkei genkai in the databook. Besides, the manga doesn’t even make a clear cut implication of a kekkei genkai. I discussed this with [[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] (who supports the kekkei genkai status) in the forum [http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:155223#9 HERE]. I’m not saying Juugo’s ability is absolutely not a kekkei genkai, instead we don’t have sufficient information to make a conclusion.
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::{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" border="1"
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!Summary of <u>[http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:155223#9 THIS]</u> discussion in the forum
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'''Argument for''': Juugo's blood grants passive absorption of natural energy, therefore it is kekkei genkai. That is, kekkei genkai are the only kind of abilities that get transferred when foreign somatic material is transferred into someone’s body.
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'''Argument against''': The above is not unconditionally correct because we have Kakuzu that incorporated foreign hearts into his own body and gained only elemental affinities, and others that incorporated Hashirama’s cells and gained a stronger life force in addition to the kekkei genkai Wood Release. The method of how these foreign somatic materials are incorporated into one’s own body also matters. E.g. Sasuke's body absorbed a lot of Juugo's cell/tissue but he never gained Juugo's abilities.
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'''Argument for''': But the above abilities (i.e. life force and elemental affinities) are not specific to a clan like Juugo’s ability is.
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'''Argument against''': Absorbing natural energy is not exclusive to Juugo’s clan either, rather his clan just has the ability to do it far much easier than regular people, to the extent that it gets accomplished passively. By that token, everyone has life force, but the Uzumaki and Senju clans have an incredible life force that's far greater than regular people's. There absolutely other abilities, which are not kekkei genkai, that are analogous to Juugo's ability. Also, some affinities are the trademarks of certain clans, like Fire and Yin for the Uchiha.
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'''Argument for''': Snide ad hominem (“Not sure if I should take you seriously at this point NoJutsu”). Passive absorption of natural energy is exclusive to Juugo’s clan. There is no evidence to prove otherwise.
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'''Argument against''': The above point just got addressed. Besides, these arguments are not meant to prove that Juugo absolutely doesn't have a kekkei genkai, instead they’re trying to show why it is impossible to argue that he ''definitely'' has a kekkei genkai. Also, there is no other kekkei genkai that can be replicated by simply applying some ointment. No kind of ointment is known to make a normal eyes become a Byakugan or Sharingan, whereas we have one that can replicate Juugo's so-called kekkei genkai.
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I'll go ahead and start making the changes. Anyone should feel free to protest the changes if there is something that has been overlooked. [[User:NoJutsu|NoJutsu]] ([[User talk:NoJutsu|talk]]) 03:33, December 1, 2014 (UTC)
   
 
== Obito + New Databook Info ==
 
== Obito + New Databook Info ==

Revision as of 03:33, December 1, 2014

image

I'd like to use this scene as an image for demonstration of the KKG. It's the only one that actually shows both sage transformation and passive absorption of natural energy and I know Seel's opinion on this already, him stating that it's "Kabuto's malice" rather than natural energy entering his body :D--Elveonora (talk) 13:14, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

Bump--Elveonora (talk) 22:04, September 24, 2014 (UTC)

Status

I hate to open this can of worms again, but going by the fourth databook, none of Jūgo's techniques was marked as either senjutsu or kekkei genkai, pretty much saying his techniques are neither. How do we handle this? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:32, November 15, 2014 (UTC)

For real? Cause unless I'm blind, he is marked as a Sage in the book--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 08:53, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
In his character entry, there is a mark for senjutsu use, but no mark for kekkei genkai. And none of his named techniques in the databook have either senjutsu or kekkei genkai marks. There are a few entries scattered through the databook regarding senjutsu and his cursed seal ability, maybe those can shed a light on the situation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:16, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
None of his abilities have senjutsu? Hmmm... • WindStar7125 [Mod] WindStar7125 Task WindStar7125&#039;s Task 16:37, November 16, 2014 (UTC)
Maybe Seel of FF-Suzaku can shed some light on this--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 16:59, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Bump--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 15:21, November 18, 2014 (UTC)

Bump2--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 15:57, November 19, 2014 (UTC)
I've asked Seelentau in the databook translation thread. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:51, November 19, 2014 (UTC)

I’ve asked Seelantau about this, and there is only overwhelming silence on Juugo’s kekkei genkai in the databook. Besides, the manga doesn’t even make a clear cut implication of a kekkei genkai. I discussed this with Elve (who supports the kekkei genkai status) in the forum HERE. I’m not saying Juugo’s ability is absolutely not a kekkei genkai, instead we don’t have sufficient information to make a conclusion.

Summary of THIS discussion in the forum

Argument for: Juugo's blood grants passive absorption of natural energy, therefore it is kekkei genkai. That is, kekkei genkai are the only kind of abilities that get transferred when foreign somatic material is transferred into someone’s body.

Argument against: The above is not unconditionally correct because we have Kakuzu that incorporated foreign hearts into his own body and gained only elemental affinities, and others that incorporated Hashirama’s cells and gained a stronger life force in addition to the kekkei genkai Wood Release. The method of how these foreign somatic materials are incorporated into one’s own body also matters. E.g. Sasuke's body absorbed a lot of Juugo's cell/tissue but he never gained Juugo's abilities.

Argument for: But the above abilities (i.e. life force and elemental affinities) are not specific to a clan like Juugo’s ability is.

Argument against: Absorbing natural energy is not exclusive to Juugo’s clan either, rather his clan just has the ability to do it far much easier than regular people, to the extent that it gets accomplished passively. By that token, everyone has life force, but the Uzumaki and Senju clans have an incredible life force that's far greater than regular people's. There absolutely other abilities, which are not kekkei genkai, that are analogous to Juugo's ability. Also, some affinities are the trademarks of certain clans, like Fire and Yin for the Uchiha.

Argument for: Snide ad hominem (“Not sure if I should take you seriously at this point NoJutsu”). Passive absorption of natural energy is exclusive to Juugo’s clan. There is no evidence to prove otherwise.

Argument against: The above point just got addressed. Besides, these arguments are not meant to prove that Juugo absolutely doesn't have a kekkei genkai, instead they’re trying to show why it is impossible to argue that he definitely has a kekkei genkai. Also, there is no other kekkei genkai that can be replicated by simply applying some ointment. No kind of ointment is known to make a normal eyes become a Byakugan or Sharingan, whereas we have one that can replicate Juugo's so-called kekkei genkai.

I'll go ahead and start making the changes. Anyone should feel free to protest the changes if there is something that has been overlooked. NoJutsu (talk) 03:33, December 1, 2014 (UTC)

Obito + New Databook Info

Chapter 666, page 6 I think, is right after Obito finished absorbing some Ten-Tails chakra from Madara. Directly after Madara notes that it was correct of Obito to use "Sage Transformation" when he uses his newly regained Truth-Seeking Ball to counter Madara's. A lot of the popular translations I can find on the web just put it as 'Sennin Mode', but when I checked the kanji they were the same exact same ones as Juugo's Sage Transformation. I originally tried to edit the article at the time to include Obito as a user, but I was dismissed.

I'm only bringing it up again because Madara (and I guess obito) as the Juubi's jinchuriki are both using 'Rikudo Senninka (Six Paths Sage Transformation)', according to new databook info. And since Juugo isn't a Kekkei Genkai user, that would mean Sage Transformation isn't a Kekkei Genkai. My point is is that I think what Obito is using post-juubi and what Juugo's clan is using are the same thing. And if I had to make a guess, I'd say this technique is something originally passed down by Hagoromo as the Juubi's jinchuriki. Skarrj (talk) 23:38, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

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