Talk: Kinkaku Force

The Kinkaku Force

Someone needs to expand this page on the skilled Kinkaku Force of Kumogakure and the 20 members who were apparently responsible for the death of Nidaime Hokage. Shounensuki translated it to it's entirety on NarutoFan --Bartallen2 (talk) 18:21, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Can someone give me a link to where it states that this group's name is the Kinkaku Force? Otherwise it's going to be kind of hard to find it since there's no references.--Red-kun (talk) 00:33, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

They are named in chapter 481, on page four, second frame. —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 00:47, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I looked up your translation for the spoiler of that chapter and it says Kinkaku Force, but on all of the chapter versions I see it just says Kumogakure master bounty hunters.--Red-kun (talk) 01:04, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

That is weird, but I can assure you they are the ones who are wrong. (Well, not really wrong, but still...) The Second Hokage clearly says "Kumogakure... The skilled Kinkaku Force?" (雲隠れ…手練の金角部隊か, Kumogakure... Tedai no Kinkaku Butai ka). —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 01:28, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Members

I know it's more than likely that Kinkaku and Ginkaku are members, but is there anything other than similar names suggesting those two are members? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:57, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Not really i suppose. We can remove their names until we get confirmation in the upcoming chapters maybe--Cerez365 (talk) 15:01, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

After asking ShounenSuki to translate the siblings' last conversation within chapter 526, he provided me with the following translation to what Ginkaku says:

"How pathetic... To think we of all people would be used for the technique of the Second Hokage that [we] defeated" (「なさけねぇ…ぶっ倒した二代目火影の術にこのオレ達がかかってるなんてのはな…なあ金角」, "Nasakenē... Buttaoshita Nidaime Hokage no jutsu ni kono ore-tachi ga kakatteru nante no wa na... Naa Kinkaku").

Although he admits that it is not 100% literally stated, there is no doubt in his mind that Ginkaku is saying he and his brother killed the Second Hokage and I'd have to agree from how the prior sentence is worded. This means that the brothers would have had to have been part of the Kinkaku Force during this period, as the entire squad is currently attributed with causing the Second Hokage's death. Blackstar1 (talk) 14:31, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of the name of the group, I think the fact they say in the new chapter that the brothers tried to kill their kage along with the 2nd of the leaf, and he lived through that, that they obviously weren't in the group and didn't have any hand in killing the 2nd. This seems like a combination of a slightly off translation and someone jumping the gun on the connection and it has spread across several pages that clearly needs to be changed at this point. The brothers wouldn't have been part of the cloud, even if they were still alive at the time, when the 2nd died so the translation seems very much wrong in this instance. 173.26.55.148 (talk) 14:03, February 10, 2011 (UTC)miah

With Shounensuki's translation, is there still a reason for them not being added as members?--Cerez₃₆₅™ 16:37, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

It was said that they left the second on the brink of death at the summit between Leaf and Cloud, not that they killed him. The Second fought the Kinkaku force at a different location. Having Kinkaku in their name doesn't mean the Gold and Silver brothers were apart of the group.--Deva 27 16:53, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Ah you're right. For some reason I saw the word "defeat" but thought "kill".--Cerez₃₆₅™ 17:34, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

When it says that you're leaving someone at the brink of death, I'm pretty sure they mean killed. The way I read it, when they were fighting him they wounded him so badly that they left him to die, and Konoha shinobi probably found him before he completely passed away. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Why would Kishi make a squad called "Kinkaku Force" that killed the second, then say that Kinkaku and Ginkaku brought him to the brink of death, but didn't kill him? That would just be horrible storytelling. Sometimes you guys are way too serious about everything needing to be directly stated. Japanese is a vague language as it is. There are a lot of sentences that can mean completely different things depending on the context. I highly doubt the Japanese version of Narutopedia (If it exists) has these types of arguements.MangekyoSasuke (talk) 04:46, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Shikamaru says on his way to fight them to Choji that they Killed The Second Hokage. I don't remember what page or chapter it was but it was when he and his team were on the way to help Darui I think.. so they were part of the Kinkaku Force ItachiWasAHero (talk) 00:21, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

He said defeated there, not killed.--Cerez365^™(talk) 01:11, June 29, 2013 (UTC)

older discussion I know but I think that they are members. Its almost common sense that they are. Munchvtec 13:11, January 28, 2014 (UTC)munchvtec

Kinkaku as a member

In episode 270 @13:10 on Crunchyroll, Shikamaru says before confronting Kinkaku "So we're gonna take care of this monster Kinkaku who killed the Second Hokage". And as we know the Kinkaku Forces killed the 2nd so can we list him as an anime only member? --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:23, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

If we list im then we might as well list ginkaku as well. no? Munchvtec (talk) 14:24, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

Shikamaru said that he defeated the second and not killed. in other translations he said took down. Munchvtec (talk) 14:26, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

I presume we would go with Crunchyroll's subs as their the website it takes you to when you click "watch online" on episode articles, so surely this wiki has faith in their subs. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 14:43, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

we go with the manga here and the manga says took down. Munchvtec (talk) 14:44, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

that is a junk trivia note seel and you know it. This can be settled through the talk page instead of letting an admin control what isn't a flame war and what won't become one. Munchvtec (talk) 14:53, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

I agree, that is junk trivia and is redundant. --Sajuuk _[Mod] ^{Talk Page | Contribs | Channel} 15:15, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

I really don't want to open a new discussion on this every time someone thinks that just because the group and the character share a name, the group was named after the character or whatever. Hence the trivia. There's no harm done in leaving it. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 15:34, December 18, 2014 (UTC)

Revival

I'm wondering why don't we add the members, Shikaku or Shikamaru spoke in their mind conversation he mentioned that Kinkaku defeated Tobirama.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 21:31, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

Because that's not the same event. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 21:36, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

Why? You mean because of this event, the meeting between Tobirama and second Raikage, they were there in Tobirama's era, Tobirama died in war and that is where Kinkaku force surrounded Tobirama's team. In chapter 529 page 11 Shikamru tells that Kinkaku defeated Tobirama.--Mecha Naruto (talk) 21:51, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, during the Raikage meeting. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 22:01, July 13, 2015 (UTC)

Killed the 2nd???

Why does it say this is stated in Chapter 592, page 11. I have read the entire manga and do not remember this at all. The kinkaku force killed him, it was not stated to be he himself. --J spencer93 (talk) 19:43, November 3, 2016 (UTC)

The wiki's translator determined that it was a mistranslation, so it was changed from Kinkaku defeating Tobirama to killing him. Furthermore, the same scene in the anime also notes that Kinkaku killed Tobirama. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 20:53, November 3, 2016 (UTC)

Explanation/context • Seelentau 愛 ^議 21:22, November 3, 2016 (UTC)

No, that's what Shikamaru thought. It's his own character perspective and that does not make it absolute. More accurate would be Tsunade's account, who said they brought him to the brink of death. Whether or not there were two separate events would be nothing more than speculation. Pesa123456789 (talk) 00:05, November 4, 2016 (UTC)

What kind of logic is that? Just because a character thinks it instead of saying it out loud, it's not true? • Seelentau 愛 ^議 12:06, November 4, 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean what kind of logic is that? Can characters not be written to be wrong outright or even morally about a statement or thought? This is a fictional narrative left up for interpretation by the reader.Senfulpie (talk) 00:03, November 10, 2024 (UTC)

Who are you to say he's wrong? That's what is said, that's what the wiki documents. Munchvtec (talk) 01:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

First of all what do you mean by “who are you?” Can we not discuss without you coming off with such hostility and be civil? Second of all what i explained has nothing to do with wiki documents, all i did was be helpful by correcting them on what the previous replier was trying to convey since they didn’t understand what was meant by a character being wrong so that they can answer better. The statement is not meant to be literal yet they took it literally. And it seems like so are you considering that you push your narrative on people without first understanding the context behind their words. Are you not capable of discussing without just outright arguing first?Senfulpie (talk) 01:45, November 10, 2024 (UTC)

There was no hostility, everyone can see that. "Nothing to do with wiki documents"? It has everything to do with them. The character said it, that is what is documented. If it's not meant to be literal, what else is it? Munchvtec (talk) 01:52, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay I am just going to ignore the continuous passive aggressive remarks from you “that everyone can see” because it is way too apparent that you are trying hard to irritate me. Anyway if I state that my previous statement isn’t about the documents then it is quite obvious that my previous statement isn’t about the documents or even Naruto at this point so if you continue to state so then you might as well discuss this with yourself at that point. I honestly can’t believe I have to write a whole paragraph to explain this to you, so the above person stated that it is not logical to state that a character is wrong just because their words were written in thought that explained an event in the past instead of spoken text. Well it is a fictional story so of course a character can be wrong in what information they have learned whether it is through teachings or something they made up in their head otherwise they would be an omniscient character and we know that shikamaru isn’t kishimoto so that isn’t the case. That is it. That’s all i was trying to explain. Please try to at least ask for more context if you are confused about something i wrote.Senfulpie (talk) 02:27, November 10, 2024 (UTC)

When the Two Lights are first revived, a more accurate translation is that they were bound by Nidaime's jutsu, the one they had "left for dead", essentially. This lines up with Shikamaru thinking Tobirama was killed by Kinkaku, and if he was, then it means he was also leading the eponymous Kinkaku Butai. There is no evidence Kumo sent them out, at any rate, as being from Kumo does not mean they are working for them. Arcadia warlic (talk) 02:07, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't want to revive a long dead topic, but this seems like the best place for it. I'm replaying Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 and there's a section where you read up on Ninja history. Anyway, here's the quote.

"Once, the Second Hokage attended a ceremony to commemorate an alliance between the Hidden Cloud Village and the Hidden Leaf Village.

During this ceremony, Kinkaku and Ginkaku, two vile criminals from the Hidden Cloud Village, appeared and attacked both the Hokage and the Raikage.

In the end, the Second Hokage was cornered by the Kinkaku Unit, an his unit was defeated..."

This does seem to treat both events as one, even with the defeat/kill vagueness still being present.--Hawkeye2701 (talk) 22:23, September 20, 2018 (UTC)