Talk:Lava Release

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Mei's Lava Release (yes, again)

The fourth databook states that 溶遁 is something only Mei can use. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 15:16, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Well then, what're we gonna do about it? Change Mei's version to "Dissolution Release" or what?--JOA²⁰15:46, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

It's still called Lava Release though :/ A trivia note should suffice. It could be an advanced version of Lava Release. You should have no issues with this statement considering what you did to Typhoon Release. Munchvtec (talk) 15:47, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

It's not Lava Release, it's Corrosion Release. Typhoon Release is some novel bullshit. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 15:52, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Corrosion is the viz name, no? They called Roshi's Lava Release Corrosion Style. Munchvtec (talk) 15:53, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

No, it's the literal translation. ShounenSuki explained it ages ago. Anyway, if it's something only Mei can use, it obviously can't be the same as the Lava Release the others use. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 15:56, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

It would still be under the Lava release name regardless. According to your idea, combining two chakra natures CAN create more than one advanced nature. Munchvtec (talk) 15:57, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

We go with what it's literally called. Lave Release. Corrosion is an alternate translation as far as i know. Make a trivia note. That's all. If this changes we may as well change everything we know about chakra natures. Magnet release would be screwed as well as Explosion and such. Munchvtec (talk) 16:05, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

It's not my idea, it's the databook's idea. Also, you have literally zero knowledge in Japanese, so why do you think you can tell me what's the right thing to do? • Seelentau 愛 ^議 16:31, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

You're able to tell me what i know, how?? I'm so terribly sorry if i don't happen to know as much as you. Why even bother with talk pages when you're going to do whatever you want anyways? If this gets changed then we will have to change tons of stuff. Munchvtec (talk) 16:55, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Personally, I'd also rather keep it as trivia than making it a separate thing from Lava Release...--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 18:08, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Basically that ^ and according to the canon policy and how we've treated everything else on the wiki that was retconned, Mei's kekkie genkai/technique was retconned to be Lava in the Last Natuto the movie. --Sarutobii2 (talk) 18:25, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

There was another user of 溶遁 in The Last? • Seelentau 愛 ^議 18:33, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I think he is referring to the visual effect, where in the last it looked like lava instead of rubber, just like earlier in anime during summit.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 20:46, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

So it's just an animation mistake then? • Seelentau 愛 ^議 20:56, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

I would say so, yes. The animators during the summit and in the last simply decided to make her lava look like Roshi's instead of the syrup appearance.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 23:23, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Also, if we were to decide on making "Corrosion Release" an actual, separate thing from Lava Release, it would debunk the general idea of "1 KK per two natures" (which we have been following so far). Because of that, unnecessary drama would stir up again, regarding Magnet & Explosion Release, which is something I'd love to avoid... So... Yeah, not to repeat myself, but I'd rather keep it as trivia..--BerserkerPhantom (talk) 23:28, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly what i said @Berserker. Munchvtec (talk) 23:46, July 2, 2016 (UTC)

This seems to me to be more of a trivia note than anything. Official sources have gone back and forth with Corrosive and Lava, which leads me to believe, despite appearances, they are supposed to related in some way.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 00:00, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Agreed with the above, just a trivia note. The fact that it is called "Corrosion Style" and "Lava Style" in different places to refer to the same thing supports the theory that they're probably related in some way, but was never really explained. --Sajuuk 00:02, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I completely understand that but I think we somehow should make the difference more clear... I mean, the sentence doesn't imply that 溶遁 is an entirely different nature. But it does imply that there's more difference than just the Kanji. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 00:09, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I was under the impression that that paragraph with the differences in kanji (fire vs water) was implying the difference with the different kanji, and the functional differences (Mei's Lava Release being rubber, everyone else's being molten rock) was mentioned in the article. (In fact I just checked. It does note the difference).--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 00:33, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Umm, Dodai is one with vulcanised rubber-like Lava Release, and that one uses fire-radical kanji, 熔. Mei's Lava Release is strong acidic mud. --JouXIII (talk) 00:56, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Well, it's just not enough, in my opinion. I mean, do you understand my point? The databook says that Mei's Corrosion Release is unique to her and it looks and works differently. It doesn't even have to do with lava, unlike rubber, for example. Also, the kanji is consequently different. The only time Lava Release was written as 溶遁 was in the book of Sha, at a time Mei didn't even exist. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 00:56, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

So going by the trivia, the only places that the water radical was used to refer to Rōshi's version were Sha no Sho and Kai no Sho, correct? Or is the mention of a "fanbook" in the trivia a mistake, seeing as it was released after Mei's introduction? The trivia could definitely be a lot clearer, especially with how it says the kanji are used interchangeably "nowadays" without establishing whether it is referring to in-universe or the real world.--BeyondRed (talk) 02:33, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

@Seel, can you please write what the databook actually says about it?--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 07:54, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

The "Corrosion Release" bloodline limit that only the Fifth Mizukage can use... the chakra inside the body is converted into a strong acid fluid, a dangerous technique that can dissolve each and everything." (五代目水影にのみ可能な血継限界“溶遁”―体内のチャクラを強酸性の液体に変換し、あらゆるものを溶かす危険な術だ。, Godaime Mizukage ni nomi kanōna kekkei genkai "Yōton"... tainai no chakura o kyōsansei no ekitai ni henkanshi, arayurumono o tokasu kikenna jutsu da.). • Seelentau 愛 ^議 10:43, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, the wording makes it sound like it's indeed separate from Lava Release. For all we know, it might not be Fire+Earth, but during the Summit, she mentioned herself as being user of Fire, Earth and Water (Lightning too that's unrelated to her kekkei genkai) and having 2 Kekkei Genkai and Fire+Water is presumed to be Boil, so it's a fishy business... maybe a combination of natures can indeed get more than just one resulting advanced nature...--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 17:36, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

And if that were true, mostly everything that was considered "wrong" can then be called true, like with the suggestion that Earth+Water can only make Wood in the argument that it cannot make Crystal. So let's not create a wiki meltdown and just leave it as it is with a trivia note, especially as she calls it "Lava Style" in the anime anyway. --Sajuuk 17:39, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

I hate you guys lol. I still think that book is talking about her version of Lava release though. :/ Munchvtec (talk) 17:41, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Or maybe, just maybe... Corrosion Release is not an actual separate kekkei genkai nature (she has not been stated to be a kekkei tota user) and what it is, is her using Lava Release and Boil Release simultaneously, kinda like Hiruzen used a pseudo-Lava Release in the anime. It could explain why she is the only one who can use Corrosion Release, since she is the only known character that possesses both Lava Release and Boil Release.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 17:59, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Please use the indentation format when responding to comments to keep things in-line. Only reset when there are too many indents.

As for your post, that would be dumb and there would have to be a classification for such a thing, which I doubt anyone would get. --Sajuuk 18:01, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

We can't do that @Elve because we just don't know :/ Munchvtec (talk) 18:03, July 3, 2016 (UTC)

Different percentages of elements. Plus earth and minus fire = Lava release (Solid, because we have more earth); Plus fire and minus earth = Lava release Mei (Liquid, because we have less earth); Same with the other double elements! Plus earth and minus water = Wood release (Solid u.u); Plus water and minus earth = Mud release (liquid u.u). --Sharingan91 (talk) 17:48, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

But Earth Release alone can produce mud, without the need of combining it with water or Mud Release altogether. And if it's truly possible to get more than 1 advanced/combined nature from 2 basic ones, then that's just crazy and opens a can full of holes.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 18:17, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

And then? Water release creates the Mist but also Boil release creates the mist XD. Mud release is in the novel Akatsuki hiden. --Sharingan91 (talk) 18:33, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

And as far as we can tell, it was never said to be Kekkei Genkai. Typhoon Release at very least was said to be Kekkei Genkai. Same can't be said about Mud Release. --JouXIII (talk) 18:38, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Water Release can create mist, just like Boil Release, the difference is that the latter is acidic. Did 'Mud Release' have any special effect compared to mud made by Earth Release?--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 20:15, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

Only Boil release of Mei is corrosive. --Sharingan91 (talk) 20:24, July 5, 2016 (UTC)

It's as if she could put the acid in hers Kekkei Genkai. --Sharingan91 (talk) 10:54, July 6, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox Pic

Why on earth are we using Meis version? Roshis is the more well known and first seen user, and the one that is more in line with real Lava, it really makes more sense to use to represent it.--RexGodwin (talk) 07:04, June 29, 2018 (UTC)

I suppose because she is chronologically the first user.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 21:15, June 29, 2018 (UTC)

but Roshi is.--RexGodwin (talk) 02:27, June 30, 2018 (UTC)

Variation Pics

Should there be a gallery that shows the various types of Lava Release or maybe have them placed into the Infobox, like certain jutsu?--Fox Boss (talk) 21:25, May 2, 2019 (UTC)

Boro

I know that the fourth databook called Mei's Yoton unique to her, but since those are only true up to the point of the story they cover, does anyone oppose listing Boro and Mei as the same type of Yoton use? They did make the point of calling Boro's jutsu a form of acid, which is like Mei's. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:59, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

Given how the kanji match Mei's version and both create acid, that seems like it would make the most sense. Actually, between this and the Shippū Ranbu tailed beast thing, is it finally time to bring back up the topic of whether 熔遁 and 溶遁 should be considered two different natures? Aside from that one typo in Sha no Sho, has there ever been anything in-universe that implies they're the same thing?--BeyondRed (talk) 03:46, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

They have the same component natures, which I assume the manga would make a bigger deal about if the same natures could make two separate things. Akatsuki Hiden is the only time there's been a clear case of two natures with the same components. ~SnapperTo 06:04, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

While it's true there were no other examples of the same natures making two different kekkei genkai, what if this was an example all along? I guess what I'm saying is, if that mistake in Rōshi's databook entry had never happened, would we have been treating these as two different natures from the beginning? Looking through the talk page archives, even when Mei's Yōton first appeared ten years ago, there were already users arguing that "acid" wasn't the same thing as "lava", and one of the main reasons for others (mainly ShounenSuki) connecting the two was that Kishimoto had already mixed them up in the databook. But then time went on and things stayed consistent, and years later we got the water/wood mixup in chapter 689, which is a pretty similar situation. Not to mention Jin no Sho outright saying Mei's Yōton is exclusive to her.--BeyondRed (talk) 06:43, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

Come to think of it, if "Lava Release" and "Corrosion Release" really are two different things, is there any proof the latter is actually made of Fire + Earth? Mei just lists three natures but doesn't say which ones make which. Maybe in Kai no Sho?--BeyondRed (talk) 06:53, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

There's no other possible combination. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 11:24, December 7, 2019 (UTC)

Unless it's Fire+Earth+Water, thus retconned into kekkei tota or whatever, but unlikely--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 12:50, December 7, 2019 (UTC)