Sandy Koufax

I've created articles for all the chapters in this volume to allow for some experimentation. Discontinue volume articles? Make volume articles into transclusion-centers? Cut out the chapter articles entirely and c&p the contents into the volume article, a la the Bleach wiki? It also provides an opportunity to decide upon other factors, such if and when to use images for chapters, whether volume exclusives are worth including anywhere, etc.

Depending upon how much hot action this gets, I may move it to a forum. ~SnapperTo 20:16, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well I was thinking once we got the chapter pages done we could remove:
The Tests of the Ninja (うずまきナルト!!, Uzumaki Naruto!!) is volume 1 of the Naruto manga.

01. Uzumaki Naruto! (うずまきナルト!!)
02. Konohamaru (木ノ葉丸!!)
03. Enter Sasuke! (うちはサスケ, Uchiha Sasuke)
04. Hatake Kakashi! (はたけカカシ!!)
05. Pride Goeth Before a Fall! (油断大敵!!, Yudan taiteki!!)
06. Not Sasuke! (サスケ君に限って…!!, Sasuke-kun ni kagitte...!!)
07. Kakashi's Decision (カカシの結論, Kakashi no ketsuron)

from the articles and have that automatically generated from the chapter pages. Having the transclusions of summaries seems to be fine as well, though there may be some issues with patching them together so they are read fluently. - SimAnt 20:21, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

I encourage screwing around with this and related pages to see how things turn out. ~SnapperTo 20:47, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
In regards to images, I'd support inclusion of title pages that aren't part of the story. For example, yes to stuff like this and this, no to this. ~SnapperTo 02:22, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
I have been wanting to have individual chapter covers here for awhile. Hmm, what about those wider covers? - SimAnt 02:48, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
What do you mean? ~SnapperTo 17:06, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Stuff like File:Jinchūriki.jpg. Also, I think it may be better to not transclude the summaries from the chapters to the volumes... either it would require making a field inside the template for the text which could get messy, or maintaining the hundreds of chapters summary tags when people "accidently" break them. - SimAnt 20:27, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Two-page spreads like fine at the infobox default. Unless I'm missing something? ~SnapperTo 21:07, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
Just don't like the "lines" from stitching those together sometimes. - SimAnt 02:38, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
So, to review:
  • chapter transclusions in the volume article - don't bother.
  • chapter images - unrelated splash pages only (?).
  • volume extras (foreword, inserts, etc.) - no opinion.
  • the moon landing - fake.
Do the five people who have taken part in this discussion concur with these findings and/or have anything to add? I think that, for the chapter template, release dates would be impossible to add. W / SJ issue # maybe, but not date. ~SnapperTo 18:53, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
It may also be nice to add a translation of the text on the cover image below the image, since those sometimes provide interesting information. I'm not familiar with how W / SJ issue # works, but yah... release dates would get messy. - SimAnt 19:59, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think cover text makes it into the volumes, so it might be difficult to find them for chapters 2XX-. ~SnapperTo 01:02, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'm curious if there is still a good source for manga chapter covers available, or if we will have to make due with personal collection uploads and translated versions. - SimAnt 02:42, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
narutofan has RAWs up until 445, though I'm not sure about quality. I'd also guess the first few dozen chapters are from scanned volumes. ~SnapperTo 03:09, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Is there somewhere you are getting the summaries, or are you writing them up yourself (since there is no wikipedia link?). I would like to help make the articles as well. - SimAnt 19:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'm writing them on the fly. Things would go a bit faster if I didn't need to create the article + do the infobox, so if you feel like it...
Also, I don't plan to do uncollected chapters until they are collected. So you can do anything after 483, or of course any other chapter; this will be a slow project if I do them all myself. ~SnapperTo 20:12, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not a very good writer... what do you mean not have to create the infobox? premake the pages with them? - SimAnt 00:00, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
Yes. It's tedious to fill out the chapter form. Since I'm doing ten per sitting, I tend to just copy and paste the previous one which leaves a high probability that I'll forget to change something and/or put something under the wrong parameter. So, basically, you can add and fill out the following 500 times:
Also gives other people something foolproof to work on if they're interested.~SnapperTo 03:14, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's foolproof, but i'll work on it... would be easier if i mastered using a bot. - SimAnt 03:50, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

If anyone would like an additional job, I've got all of the black and white chapter covers through volume 27 sitting around. I'll upload them myself as I get to the respective chapters if nobody else is interested. ~SnapperTo 07:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC)


So, what would be messy about transclusions? I'd think it would be as simple as adding <section begin=summary />{{{summary}}}<section end=summary /> to Template:Infobox/Naruto/Chapter.

Similarly, I for some reason decided to spend the last hour-and-a-half making this horribly crude summary thingamabob:

{{#arraymap:{{ArrayRemove|{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Volume number::1]]|sep=,|link=none|sort=Chapter number}}|{{PAGENAME}}}}|,|!|<nowiki/>
=== Chapter {{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|?Chapter number|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}} ===
:'''{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|headers=hide}}''' ({{#ifeq:{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|?Kanji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}|||{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|?Kanji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}}}{{#ifeq:{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|?Romaji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}|||, ''{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Name::!]]|?Romaji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}''}})
{{Transclude section|!|summary}}
| }}

Isn't the sheer number of things a template could do better impressive? ~SnapperTo 05:50, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Some1 would have to go through all the chapters and edit the description to be a variable as part of the template then; Seeing as people are against using form edit, that could be a problem (although most that are against it make bad edits anyways..). Also, that code scares me in someway, i'll look at it more closely later. SimAnt 06:04, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Code Cleaning.
{{#arraymap:{{ArrayRemove|{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Volume number::1]]|sep=,|link=none|sort=Chapter number}}|{{PAGENAME}}}}|,|!|<nowiki/>
=== Chapter {{#ask:[[!]]|?Chapter number|mainlabel=-|headers=hide}} ===
:{{translation|'''[[!]]'''|{{#ask:[[!]]|?Kanji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}|{{#ask:[[!]]|?Romaji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}}}
{{Transclude section|!|summary}}
| }}

SimAnt 06:12, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Template editing usually only goes awry when adding a new parameter (ie. new translation). Other than images, I've never seen anyone ruin what is a functioning value. If you finagle the appropriate templates, I can either make the switch or ask a bot to do so.
And you aren't mesmerized by my efforts? I was taught to make things as clunky and likely-to-blow-up-in-your-face as possible. ~SnapperTo 20:02, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Finagled. SimAnt 00:50, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Is there a delay, or have we encountered an issue? includeonly tags maybe? ~SnapperTo 03:58, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I'd hope it is a delay, since all other stuff besides the transcluding the summary is working, and there are no includeonly tags... will check on it again in the morning, hopefully it will be working then. SimAnt 05:26, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I meant maybe it needs includeonly tags; perhaps the summary tags are only functioning in so much as they are transcluding for the template and not the articles its present in. ~SnapperTo 07:09, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know why it's not working... i tried a simple template with a section with Narutopedia:Sandbox and it came up blank as well... might have to store the summary as a text string in a property. Your welcome to fiddle with those sandboxs trying to get them to work. SimAnt 17:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
It's the template-induced summary tags that are the problem. When they're manually added, the thing works fine. Since those are easier to break than a form, it might be better to scrap the idea if a workaround can't be found. ~SnapperTo 18:28, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
So I guess that was the culprit; using these versions (chapter, volume) yields the desired result, but the volume pages take a while to load so I'm not sure if they're overly demanding. It also makes the yet-to-be-converted pages look awful. Second opinion before continuing with the switch? ~SnapperTo 19:08, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I think that method of using : gets the current version which is alot more demanding then getting the last stored version. I'll do a little research/poking people into using section tags in templates, and if that doesn't work out i'll store the summaries in text properties. SimAnt 19:23, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Emulating another wiki isn't worth unnecessary headache... ~SnapperTo 23:47, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think people could would mess up the section tags in the article much more than they would mess up the template. So either go back to manually adding the section tags, or forget the idea... SimAnt 03:59, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
[1] Can't question chance. At least we know what to do if we decide to give it another go. ~SnapperTo 04:52, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
I'd say rollback the chapters to how they were b4 we started, and hope for this. SimAnt 17:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
Dantman, poked the staff and now it's working well, and without any apparent lag like the other method. A bot needs to remove the manually added ==summary==/==synopsis== tags from the chapter pages, and remove all the manual volume synopsis. (for some reason some chapters have summary header and some have synopsis...) SimAnt 21:54, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
Are there any additional steps? Summaries aren't showing up for volume 4 and onwards. ~SnapperTo 23:31, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
Thats because they use the "Summary" heading, when the template is looking for synopsis. Side-note template using headers is ignored in section same way that <summary> tags are, so change the ==summary== to ==Synopsis==. SimAnt 00:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
What else can we steal from the Bleach wiki?
Additionally, is there a way to eliminate the whitespace created by {{-}}ing the infobox that does not also require giving images a left alignment? ~SnapperTo 04:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
I tried not using {{-}} for the first one.. but that failed with shorter summaries and Turning_The_Tables overlaps images horizontally. Got any ideas? SimAnt 19:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Only what I suggested not doing:

{{#arraymap:{{#ask:[[Concept:Chapter]][[Volume number::{{{volume|0}}}]]|sep=,,,|link=none|sort=Chapter number}}|,,,|!|<nowiki/>
=== Chapter {{#ask:[[!]]|?Chapter number|mainlabel=-|headers=hide}} ===
:{{translation|'''[[!|{{#explode:!|(}}]]'''|{{#ask:[[!]]|?Kanji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}|{{#ask:[[!]]|?Romaji name|mainlabel=-|headers=hide|link=none}}}}
{{Transclude section|!|#Synopsis}}{{Transclude section|!|#Summary}}<div style="clear:left;">| }}

The only thing I like about it is that it is that it does not disrupt the chapter name's indentation. ~SnapperTo 19:29, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

I tried, that, it was worse... SimAnt 19:45, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking you haven't tested the whole thing? My suggestion and your example are decidedly different. ~SnapperTo 19:51, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
Correct. :P. Tried it, disliked the images on left. I'd prefer no images to that, besides click the link for more details. PS: Still working on making TOC not so ugly. SimAnt 19:58, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
Do you think it looks done now, or should i go a step further and add edit links to the individual chapter pages? SimAnt 21:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
That sounds like it would be complicated and subsequently confusing. ~SnapperTo 03:16, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
I did it anyways. Doesn't look to bad, does it? SimAnt 19:43, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Looks fine. My only concern is that people won't understand how they went from editing a section to editing a separate article. ~SnapperTo 20:41, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Hopefully, even if they don't understand, they went to edit the text, and the text is there, so they will edit it. SimAnt 20:46, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
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