(Madara is Obito's ancestor?)
(Madara is Obito's ancestor?)
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It was said in the chapter by Obito that Madara was his ancestor. That is a surprise to me. I wonder how many generations he is descended from Madara. --Senjuto 16:36, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
It was said in the chapter by Obito that Madara was his ancestor. That is a surprise to me. I wonder how many generations he is descended from Madara. --Senjuto 16:36, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
Madara is the ancestor of the whole (current) Uchiha clan members. We aren't sure if they are related from the same line. But if they are blood related, then maybe that one of the reasons why Madara decide to save Obito life.
Madara is the ancestor of the whole (current) Uchiha clan members. We aren't sure if they are related from the same line. But if they are blood related, then maybe that one of the reasons why Madara decide to save Obito life. [[User:Hopemon|Hopemon]] ([[User talk:Hopemon|talk]]) 17:32, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:32, September 19, 2012


For previous discussions about this character, see also Talk:Tobi and its archives.

Long haired Tobi was Obito as well

In the latest chapter we see Madara with white hair as an old man. Should we consider this confirmation that Obito simply grew his hair out while he controlled Yagura and met Itachi? --M4ND0N (talk) 17:16, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Or. We could just wait and see what's going on in that half a frame before jumping to conclusions...--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:21, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Or Madara simply dyed his gray hair to look hot again, no way Obito has identical hair as him.--Elveonora (talk) 21:34, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Uchiha Madara ~Dying his hair so he can wear a mask even though virtually no one would recognize him. Personally I think Madara used the Rinne-tensei on Obito, and like Nagato, that's why he looks old in that last panel. How else could Trollbito survive the rocks? So I guess there could be two Tobis. Nothing is certain. Next week, I guess. --M4ND0N (talk) 03:16, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Cerez is right. WAIT before jumping to conclusions here. Too many possibilities here. (talk) 06:25, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Elveonora, how exactly is it hard to believe that Obito grew his hair? It was years after Kurama's attack.-- (talk) 09:41, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Yes,there sound was the also the same.--@sign. 18:14, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

His age again~

Yo! I'm obviously not the only one who noticed this, but I want to bring it up here in case some of you have an opinion on it:

This timeline shows what the current facts are. Of course I can explain everything, but I'm sure you're able to figure it out by yourselves, huh? Anyway, opinions please :)

tl;dr: Obito is 34 now (ignoring months). Seelentau 愛 21:27, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Care to explain how is 13+16/17 = 34?
EDIT: Kakashi was promoted to Jounin at 13, so ur/this timeline is wrong--Elveonora (talk) 21:29, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
Sure, if you prove me that Kakashi's Jounin age was 13. Obito is 34 years old because 18 (his age when he attacked Konoha) plus the time since then (16 years, Naruto's age) is 34. Seelentau 愛 21:33, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
Chapter 239 page 7, Obito was 14 during attack on Konoha--Elveonora (talk) 21:39, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
There is no age given for Kakashi's promotion in said chapter. And he's 18 in my timeline. Seelentau 愛 21:42, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
The war has ended 1 year before the Tobi's attack on Konoha. That was over 16 years ago, as Kakashi is 30 now, he was 13 during the war. I really don't know how do you get 18, but please don't make yourself a fool as this is elementary school math.--Elveonora (talk) 21:47, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Well then, allow me to explain:
Obito's timeline is this: Genin at 9, Chūnin at 11, dies at 13.
Kakashis's timeline is this: Genin at 5, Chūnin at 6
We know that Obito and Kakashi were a team during the Chūnin exams, so it's likely that they were a team as Genin, too. For that to happen, they'd have to graduate at the same time, resulting in a four year gap in age between Obito (who was 9) and Kakashi (who was 5). Kakashi is promoted to Chūnin a year later at the age of 6, while Obito failed and promoted another year later, being 11 years old (Kakashi being 7). Two years later, Obito dies in the 3SWW at the age of 13, thus Kakashi being 9 (7+2=9) when he's promoted to Jōnin. So far, so good, right? No flaws, at least I can't see any.
Now we know that Tobito's attack on Konoha happened 16 years ago. Kakashi is 30 now and 30-16 is 14. He was 14 years old when Kurama attacked and 9 years old when Obito died, there's a 5 years gap. Because of this gap, Obito is 18, since 13 (his age when he died) plus 5 (the gap) equals 18. Seelentau 愛 21:58, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

There's no gap, just read the trivia for "Obito Uchiha" chapter. Kakashi was 100% 13 during the war, recently promoted to Jounin and the attack happened a year after--Elveonora (talk) 22:13, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I know about the Trivia, but it's just listing the problems. My timeline is explaining what seems to be inconsistency. The only remaining problem is Minato's head on the mountain, but that could simply be edited out in the Tankōbon version, while I doubt that Kishimoto-sensei would rewrite the entire chapter. Seelentau 愛 22:21, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

The problem is, your timeline contradicts with earlier official establishments, thus is wrong. I wouldn't base any timelines upon the aforementioned chapter, if your timeline can explain how a yet-to-be-born person could attend the Academy with Kakashi and staff, we can take it into consideration then.--Elveonora (talk) 22:27, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

At least for Obito's age, the timeline seems to add up. In ShounenSuki's timeline, even he added that the promotion age was calculated under the assumption Obito and Kakashi were the same age, which might not be the case. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:45, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

So under the assumption that Obito is 4 years older than Kakashi, he must have been 17 during the 3rd Shinobi World War, while he looked to be the same age. The problem for this to work is Kakashi's age, he was surely 13 during the war, thus according to that, it doesn't work. Unless people get over the fact that Kishimoto doesn't know how to portray age of his drawings correctly. But I admit it's a pretty nice effort at cleaning up Kishi's canon mess up. Obito being 18 fighting Minato would be MUCH more believable. EDIT: you got me confused, or better I confuse myself now... everything seems to fit, except you had the gap between the war's end and Tobi attack wrong along with Obito's age during his "death" So more opinions on this, and if everyone agrees, I think we can change Obito's age to:

  1. time of death: 17
  2. Part II. 33-34--Elveonora (talk) 01:29, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

There's no way Obito was 17 at the time of his supposed death. I wish Kishi would release an actual timeline, though.. either way, his height speaks for itself, and the fact that he entered the academy at the same time as Kakashi. Obito doesn't fail THAT much. --M4ND0N (talk) 03:10, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

mh, I have to admit that in my tiredness, I forgot to consider that Kakashi and Obito entered the academy at the same time. This fact makes my timeline worthless >.< But I don't see how my gap could possibly be wrong, since I did not create it, but logic did. If we don't take into account my little mistake there, everything fits (again, without using months). Seelentau 愛 05:14, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Did you not go to the Kakashi Talk page and check out the response that I wrote? (talk) 06:23, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Add up Itachi, Kakashi, Naruto and Gai's Ages. Check out their ninja reg numbers and their promotion ages. Then Check Obito and Rin's stats. You will see I am right (talk) 06:23, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Funny. Everyone's saying Kakashi was 13 when he got promoted, but no one is able to prove it. Please do so, otherwise I won't take it into account for further calculating. The timeline isn't as screwed up as one might think. Only the aforementioned problem exists. Seelentau 愛 14:22, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

You talk about logic, yet math isn't your strong point brother ;D Tobi's attack on Konoha happened after the 3rd Shinobi World War, and Kakashi was 14 during that time. Since the Gaiden portrays events before the attack, he got promoted before he turned 14, that's a given. Itachi witnessed a traumatic event from the war, and was 4-5 years old when the Fox decided to play around a bit. It's not believable for younger than 3-4 years old Itachi to have been there... he wouldn't even comprehend and recall something from earlier than that.

So by your theory, 13 (our Jounin promotion age) - 4 years = 9 (Kakashi's Jounin promotion age of yours) great.... a yet to be born Itachi had already a warfare trauma :O Do you need the math to go any further to get more proofs, brother? :)

The only problem now (if we go by a corrected version of your timeline) is to accept/deny that "viz Obito's infobox picture" was 17 there. I mean... might be delayed adolescence or simply Kishi's fail, like 11 years old Itachi being as tall as Orochimaru... all we need now are votes/voices by more naruto wikia members to decide if to change Obito's age to 34 or keep it the way it is and avoid further timeline/canon missteps--Elveonora (talk) 16:14, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not THAT bad with maths. Kakashi was 14 when Kurama/Tobi attacked and the 3NWW ended before the attack. Itachi turned 4 a year prior to the attack, and even though I don't see what Itachi's to do with this, he still had one year to witness an event happening in the 3NWW. Where's the problem and where's your Kakashi-Jōnin-13-proof? Regarding Obito's official age given in the box, I wouldn't change it. He and Kakashi joined the academy at the same time, which renders my timeline invalid, but it's still pretty good 8) Seelentau 愛 17:49, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

He couldn't witness anything if we go by your line of Kakashi being 9 when Obito has "died" as he was 14 during the Fox attack and Itachi 4-5, thus there's no chance as the Gaiden has marked close-to-end of the 3rd war, that would make the latter an infant back then, if not born yet. You got yourself confused now, there's no proof that all the class students have to be about the same age, y u no eating a scenario with Kakashi being 4 and Obito 8 during their first Academy day?

It all works, but for Obito looking too young--Elveonora (talk) 18:05, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Itachi was 5 when Kurama attacked. He had more than one year to witness a traumatic event in the war while being 4. Kakashi was actually 15. Obito died at the age of 13.
I know that Kakashi Gaiden happened near the WW's end, but we don't know how near. There is a possibility of it lasting anothert 4 or 5 years.
What did Obito prior to joining the academy, then?
Maybe I am confused, but only by you. What exactly are you getting at? Please just give me a valid source for Kakashi being 13 years old when he was promoted to Jōnin, I'll see what I can do afterwards. Seelentau 愛 18:17, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Chapter 599

  • Obito: circa 4(x years 7 months) years older than Kakashi
  1. Academy = started along with Kakashi, as of age 8, graduated at 9
  2. Chunin = failed the exams twice, once at 9, then at 10 and succeed as 11 years old
  • Kakashi: circa 4(x years 7 months) years younger than Obito
  1. Academy = started along with Obito, as of age 4, graduated at 5
  2. Chunin = promoted at 6 (Obito being 10 years old)
  3. Jounin = 7

[When Obito succeed, Kakashi was 7 and as of chapter 599 a recent promotion, thus they went fighting right after]

Kakashi was 1 month after his 14th's birthday during the Fox's attack. When Kakashi turned 30, it was 15 years and 11 months after Obito's/Tobi's attack. Thus Obito/Tobi fought Minato as 19 years old.

Check it out, and let me know if there still are any plotholes, if not then it appears ur right and we can change (with agreement of course) his age to:

  • Age at the time of a presumed death/Gaiden: 11
  • Part II: 34-35

--Elveonora (talk) 20:01, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Only Itachi's age and the trauma statement might be problematic, as he was 4-5 during the attack, and if he had seen an incident during the war, then that would mean it lasted about 6-7 years... sounds believable?--Elveonora (talk) 20:46, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

We don't know how old Kakashi and Obito were when they joined the academy, but Obito was (and is) 4 years older. Again, ignore the months, they're making this more complicated.
They graduated at 5 and 9. I don't know how many times Obito failed the Chūnin exams, but guessing from the chapter, I'd say only once at the age of 10 (same exam Kakashi succeeded in). Being 11, Obito became Chūnin. Two years later, he died at the age of 13 (his last given age as Obito), Kakashi being 9 years old (his Jōnin age). You see, it fits perfectly.
You're right about Kakashi being 14, I miscalculated that. Itachi was 5 during Kurama's attack and witnessed the 3WW at 4, meaning the WW lasted at least until one year prior to Naruto's birth and all.
So I'd say we should simply write "30-34" for Obito's age and correcting the promotion ages where it's due. That's all we can do, since as obvious as all this may be, it's only fan talk. I guess it's up to the community to add it, but seeing as how Tsunade's a presumed Raiton user...^^ Seelentau 愛 20:59, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
  • It takes at least 1 year to graduate, so Kakashi had come as 4 at the earliest, and Obito 8 (assuming it took him 1 year as well to graduate, unless he was there like for 5 years already, but that sounds like an epic failure if you ask me) not to mention the time when they started is completely irrelevant that's just an estimate... the only thing that matters is, that they were a team.
  • Months are important, they can make a 1 year difference, sometimes even 2.
  • Viz. chapter 599, Obito failed twice, but the Chunin exams age graduation is what matters, so it's trivial if it was just once.
  • From where did you get that Obito had died 2 years later at the age of 13?

Read the Gaiden and chapter 599 again. Obito has succeed the exams at 11 and Kakashi was by then recently promoted to Jounin at 7... the 3rd Shinobi World War, or at least their participation occurred it appears in a range of few days at max, if not tomorrow.

  • Kakashi's birthday is in September, that means, the current events of manga are already past this point as Kakashi is 30. Naruto's birthday is October, thus Kakashi is 15 years and 11 months older.

Obito has his birthday in February... thus an example: by the time Kakashi was 10 years and 5 months old, Obito turned 15. (thus there's 4 years and 7 months difference between them, depends on what part of a year it is, they are either 4 or 5 years younger/older from each other), that means: Obito is 35 now Unless we reverse it and Kakashi's birthdays comes first as a priority... example: by the time Kakashi turned 7, Obito was still 10 and only a few months later turned 11. (thus Obito being x years +/- 5 months younger), that means: Obito is 34 now

Tobi's age is 100% 34-35 if we switch to this new timeline, it fixes all the errors around these, and is more official than ShounenSuki's opinion/guess that "it's safe to assume that they are the same old" etc. --Elveonora (talk) 21:55, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

You all are still missing a few things. Gai Rin and Obito's registration numbers are very close and they all have the same chuunin graduation age. Gai is 8 months older than Kakashi and Obito is 7 months older. Kakashi was 14 and 25 days older than Naruto. It was said soon after the bridge was destroyed the war ended and Minato was elected Hokage. Obito was a class mate of Gai and Kakashi too. So he is 31 at most 29 at least. You guys are just trying to make his age fit that way so you can make EVERYTHING fit. Just remember there is errors here and he is about the same age as Kakashi there is no other way to put it honestly. I did the math countless times with the databook evidence and manga evidence. 33-34 came up a few times in some calculations, but in most of the logical and leeway accepting calculations 30-31 came up. (talk) 21:28, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

@unnamed user, it's nice you want to save some space, but feel free to post in a standard way and please, add up your calculations for comparison. I'm really interested. Even though Aren't these A LOT used references just some notes from ShounenSuki's timeline? Like, can you provide lines from the databooks/manga that:

  • the war ended shortly after the bridge was destroyed (not to mention if it's there, shortly isn't a definite term)
  • it was considered and argued about that all the classmates do not have to be around the same age
  • no one is trying to fit everything, just official information from manga and databooks, so we provide the most official "facts" as possible instead of "logical assumptions"
  • According to chapter 599 and Gaiden, the war has started right after Obito's promotion to Chunin and Kakashi's to Jounin. Obito was 11 so Kakashi 7... the number 13 again came from the assumption of Obito and Kakashi being the same old, thus it's invalid now.

We can't list things as facts without a reference, and the reference has to be based upon official things not guesses.--Elveonora (talk) 13:52, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

arghs, this discussion is confusing now, ya'll talk without any paragraphs and one even without user name, so who's anwering who? I'm confused! :( Elve-kun, have you answered me? I can't see through this anymore ._. Seelentau 愛 15:06, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT: doesn't matter, both of you please answer to both and all--Elveonora (talk) 15:55, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Obito is confirmed to have "died" at 13 during the end of the war and that image does not mean he went off to war straight after he became chunin, in fact it is 2 diff scenes in that chapter. He has his chunin papers in one and in the other he has flowers at a later and different time, we have no solid clue the time frame between those two scenes and it is presumptuous to assume one and just an opinion, it is fact he was chuunin at 11 and kakashi was chuunin at 6. it is also obito he "died" at 13, reg numbers combined with obito, itachi, gai, naruto, rin and kakashi's databook profiles helps with the facts, but then again we wont know till databook 4 or a official timeline (talk) 21:28, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Again, where are the sources for the mysterious number 13?--Elveonora (talk) 21:51, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

The 13 comes from the databook. It's Obitos age when he died and not made up by me or anyone else. Seelentau 愛 10:52, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Just something I'd like to say for those trying to say Kakashi and Obito were/are the same age. Kakashi, in Part I, stated that he was promoted to Chuunin when he was 6 years younger than Naruto, who was 12 at the time. Do the math. This means in the recent chapter's flashbacks, Kakashi was six when he was shown with his new Chuunin vest. This is key to proving Obito was older than Kakashi, not the same age. Obito graduated from the academy at nine, was on the same team as Kakashi, who acquired his Chuunin rank at age how the hell could they be the same age? -Alexdhamp (talk) 18:23, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

So, Elve-kun, is there anything unclear, do you have any questions? As I said, I can't see through this discussion anymore, so please just ask me and I'll try to answer or to clarify it. Seelentau 愛 08:08, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Can you provide the databook reference/mention? if yes and it really was 13, then this whole topic is pointless and I will just restore the trivia "_" --Elveonora (talk) 21:51, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

What exactly? Obito's only given age is 13, his age of death. It stems from his databook entry (proof). As for Kakashi's "Jōnin-13", it's obviously wrong, as I proved at the top of this discussion. Seelentau 愛 22:57, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

I see, it's correct then. I did calculate Obito's age right though, or at least the results are same 34-35 (depends on the way the months are approached) so Kakashi is a Jounin since 9. Now it's only up to admins, answers would be nice. There are no plotholes now in this case --Elveonora (talk) 23:18, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Then please explain to me how Obito and Kakashi could join the academy at the same time, spend the same year(s) studying and graduated at the same time, when Obito is four years older? Seelentau 愛 23:38, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

They were never shown graduating the academy together, they were shown entering the academy together AND participating in one chunin selection exam together. That was it. So you don't know the facts. Databook 4 is the only real hope for a solid time frame. (talk) 04:03, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

They were a team in the Chūnin exam (being Genin at that time) => they were a Genin team => they must've graduated at the same time. Seelentau 愛 10:47, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Is it so hard to believe Kakashi was trained exclusively by Minato from 5 until his other teammmates were intergrated into his team. (them all being relatively the same age) Kakashi is 19-30 now so 16 years ago he would have been 13-14 only one year after gaiden.(supposedly) say Obito is the the same age as Kaka. now...they would be the same age. 14 during the Kyuubi's attack. Maybe Madara or some younger Uchiha used Obito's eye's (Transplanted) Mangekyou abilities for the Kyuubi's attack?
...yes, it is. There are no reasons to believe that Kakashi hat undergone a special training or so. Seelentau 愛 18:37, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

@Seelentau, where is it stated that the students have to be of the same age? I don't find it impossible for Obito and Kakashi visiting the same class and there being 4 year difference between them...--Elveonora (talk) 17:53, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

I know, I've people in my classes who're 16 and 24 years old. Nothing special. So everything fits now, right? Or are there any other questions? Seelentau 愛 18:37, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

No, everything fits. We should conclude this topic already as it's getting too long to scroll down :P we just need a "go" from the admins, because I won't edit something without others agreeing to prevent wars and arguing--Elveonora (talk) 18:43, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I did and... wtf? I did nothing wrong, but everything's messed up :( Seelentau 愛 18:54, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Omni-kun, it would be nice if you could give us your opinion about all this. It seems like most of the useres here prefer just to revert what they think is wrong instead of actually taking part in the discussion. Seelentau 愛 11:28, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

spec·u·la·tion   [spek-yuh-ley-shuhn]
  1. the contemplation or consideration of some subject: to engage in speculation on humanity's ultimate destiny.
  2. a single instance or process of consideration.
  3. a conclusion or opinion reached by such contemplation: These speculations are impossible to verify.
  4. conjectural consideration of a matter; conjecture or surmise: a report based on speculation rather than facts. (talk) 16:37, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

What he said ^ the only thing safe to consider is him being 29 - 30. (talk) 19:25, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

I won't even look at what IPs have to say. Just saying. Omni-kun, pwwwlllleaaase :( Seelentau 愛 20:10, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

It appears all the work has been pointless, as Obito's P2 age got removed by Omni completely, also MANSON... I think things should be discussed at first before reverting edits--Elveonora (talk) 02:41, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Not pointless at all. I don't care about what you do with the information I provide you. My job here is long since done, but I want to know what Omni-kun and the other reliable members say about this matter... Seelentau 愛 14:17, September 19, 2012 (UTC)


Shouldn't we mention his arm healing itself?--Elveonora (talk) 00:51, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

His entire arm grew back when Minato used a Rasengan on him, what Naruto's did isn't very impressive by comparison. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:07, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I think we should wait until next week when it is (hopefully) explained. Besides how would we put it in there? I mean we hardly know about it. (talk) 01:10, September 12, 2012 (UTC) yomiko-chan

@Omni, I meant in chapter 601 in front of Madara's eyes his arm heals.--Elveonora (talk) 01:19, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

I know, I'm just saying that considering what we saw him do in the past, this isn't exactly news. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:22, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

We saw him repairing it with flower stuff, now it regenerated by itself, I think it's worthy of a mention. EDIT: done--Elveonora (talk) 01:34, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi didn't have the lower with Hashirama's clone with him when he fought Minato. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:42, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

He more than likely had his cells already though, "Hashirama was also able to use medical ninjutsu. His skill with which were such that he could heal himself without forming seals," --Elveonora (talk) 01:56, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Elvenora, read this part again that you've put: "Hashirama was also able to use medical ninjutsu. His skill with which were such that he could heal himself without forming seals - Now, it states HASHIRAMA. It was HIS skills. Just because Obito may have his DNA, does not mean he has his medical skills or medical ninjutsu know how. That's like saying just because Tsuande has his DNA by being one his descendants, means she can also do this. Which she hasn't been shown to do, even though she is highly skilled. This leaves your argument, invalid. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 06:25, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

For two panels, this is way too much speculation. I've seen Sakura do the same thing (heal herself without seals) but I've never seen bruises vanish with any medical nin. We of all people should know Tobi's right side is not "human" for want of a better word, so why not actually wait until Kishimoto explains those two subtle little frames, so there's more to go off that calling it "healing or regeneration"?--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 10:30, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

@Susanoo, "sigh" Hashirama's cells/DNA gives extra powers/properties... hell it's an answer for everything an Uchiha need ;D @Cerez, that's what I mean. His half of the body or at least arm is artificial, clearly Hashi/Zetsu make-up "_" To that medical ninja part, I find it funny that a SELF HEALING ability was enough to list Hashirama as a medical-nin, while Tobi/Obito has surgical skills and apparently similar regenerative ability, yet he isn't one--Elveonora (talk) 15:46, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

It may have been premature or maybe inaccurate to list him as a medical ninja, even though he practised the use of medical-ninjutsu, but people don't necessarily have to be medical-nins in order to be able to carry out experiments or surgery especially when for one, we know nothing about the process to transplant and integrate eyes and secondly, it is related to one specific/Uchiha-related thing that they would have to know about i.e. the transfer of eyes.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 15:55, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

Right Side of the body

Question: Is Obito's whole right side of his body (save his right eye and possibly the face) totally artificial or something? --1337 B33FC4K3 (talk) 16:16, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Obito's right half, more than likely is entirely artificial, or at least his hand is. In chapter 601 we see that he doesn't have it any at all when Madara stapled him back together.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:30, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
to me it seems his right arm is just wrapped in the bandages, close to his body. you can see the volume of the arm...--Holyn (talk) 15:39, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
True his hand may be under there. I guess we just have to wait and see what it's all about then.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:56, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
The arm is a prosthetic in that it's a replacement for the arm he lost(at least three times now). Still, I wouldn't call it 'artificial' as such. It appears to be made of living tissue like with Zetsu. The rest of the body, though, I'm not certain, but I'm thinking he just recovered it naturally with enough time, given that his face wasn't white. Skarn22 (talk) 19:46, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Obito mentions in the article

I really would hate to beat a dead horse here, but this article looks terrible. The plot section is fine, because it mentions Tobi for most of the actions Obito did under the Tobi guise and Obito for the things following the reveal; great. But is that really necessary for the appearance, personality, and abilities section? I mean, it really is frustrating to be reading "Obito has the ability to..." and then in the next sentence, "Tobi can also...". This constant flip-flop between Tobi and Obito's name in sections other than the plot make this article look all over the place and very disorganized. As for anything other than the plot, at least on this article, I think the Tobi references should be changed to Obito. Its fine for the plot section, because we want to show what he did as Tobi and what he did as Obito, but that isn't necessary for the abilities section, since it is all Obito's doing. His abilities as "Tobi" aren't different from his abilities as Obito, because its all him. I realize this may take time, but I'm willing to do it myself with approval from the community. Thoughts? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 05:11, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I am sure the readers do understand that it is all Obito's abilities even when its written Tobi its not that much of a problem, actually it's hardly noticed, don't you feel that you're kinda exaggerating. Anyways I still think you're right, the change should be done.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 16:07, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind changing Tobi to Obito in sections that don't directly chronicle the series. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:03, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you guys that we should change it to confusing.(Titans24 (talk) 17:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC))Titans24

Name by name? Image by image? are you wanting to change all this, remember that some articles still go with "Tobi" name are you sure to change all that? And the Taka reference (Tobi ga taka o umu) where it will go, change anything, after it is does, tell me (I want to know), because with a lot of IMPORTANT things to do, are all yours playing with worthless "problems".
OBS: I am just a user, I DON'T have admin. status, that is only my opinion. MaskedManMadara (talk) 18:31, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Image names don't need to be changed, and this isn't something that would be done by a bot, since not all instances of Tobi are to be changed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:09, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

We don't care about images MaskedManMadara just the names and we're talking only about this article (the abilities section to be more precise) because it is confusing in Obito's article itself, besides no one forgot the important things to do and you're not even the one who will have to deal with them. And please lessen the hostility whene you talk to us we are not fighting we are just rationally discussing.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 19:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

sorry, Charmanking2198 and all any others members, this isn't my best day, I'll be out of wiki and my other sites for somedays, I don't want to fight anyone I'm just enraged. sorry... --MaskedManMadara (talk) 21:30, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, i am sorry too i told you to lessen the hostility but then i ended up getting a little hostile myself.--Charmanking2198 (talk) 23:41, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Tobi / Obito name mixup

I know this has been addressed already for the ability section, but I really feel we should take this up a step further. During most of the times we list Obito as "Tobi" in the story section, he was using Madara's name. I know we can't list him as such, because he isn't Madara. But since his identity has been revealed, shouldn't we just replace Tobi's name with Obito on every part of the article and other articles to avoid confusion? Obito stopped using the Tobi alias around the Itachi retrieval arc, there's no excuse for using it to reference portions of the articles about plotlines where he didn't even use the name imo. --M4ND0N (talk) 06:51, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Truthfully, I have to agree. Reason being we did the same for Kazuma. Even though he went by an alias, his Plot and Background sections sill call him Kazuma. Furthermore, as M4DON accurately mentions, Obito dropped the Tobi alias a long time ago. When Naruto discovered he wasn't the real Madara, he told Naruto he could call him either Tobi or Madara, but that it didn't matter to him, because his name didn't matter. That's no excuse to use the Tobi alias now. Obito is Obito. Saying something like "Obito, under the guise of Tobi" or "Obito, then disguised as Tobi/Madara" should suffice. Otherwise, I'm gonna have to ask we switch all the "Tobi" references to Madara since that's who he was disguised as earlier in the series. Its ridiculous to say "call him Tobi for [Insert Plot arc Title Here]" because that's who his alias was, when we don't call him Madara in the article despite him using that alias for a good while too. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:32, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
EDIT: And if all you're really worried about is having to change all those references, I will personally volunteer to do it myself. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:33, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
You have a point, but isn't part of the issue that we don't know everything for certain? Like, for example, there's debate that some of the actions of 'Tobi' may have been perpetrated by another individual. Like the deal with Yagura. I know it seems like speculation, but really, did we see anything that showed us it could only have been him? Skarn22 (talk) 18:43, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
The point is, Tobi is a generalization for 'the masked guy doing all of this stuff' whereas Obito is just Obito. Unless we know for certain that it's all his doing, I'm not sure it's wise to commit to that. If you ask me, it was a mistake to merge the articles so soon when we know so little of what was actually him believing and saying things(as far as personality) and doing things(abilities), and how much was just him pretending to be Madara(saying I believe such and such and taking credit for things that Madara did which he may not be able to do at all). But this is all just my opinion. I figure we're sure to have to move things around with every chapter that comes out since this stuff is basically unknowable and unpredictable anyhow. Edit: forgot to log in first, my bad. Skarn22 (talk) 18:43, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

That's not the point. We know that everything in the Plot section here on Obito's page was done by Obito, using either Madara's name or the Tobi alias. What we're saying is that, since we don't call him Madara in the sections where he went by that name, we shouldn't call him Tobi in the sections where he went about as Tobi. Especially since he stopped using his Tobi alias back in the Search for Itachi arc. It would be much simpler to just call him Obito everywhere, since that is who he is, rather than constantly switch back and forth from Tobi to Obito. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:54, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see. And actually, looking it over, it looks like the current policy is to assume everything was done by Obito for now as well. In that case, I agree. It's simpler to just use his name, along with appropriately-placed pronouns. Skarn22 (talk) 19:22, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

That's horrible logic as the (once) masked man is hardly Obito anymore. So he has the same body, big deal. His personality, his abilities, his beliefs, virtually everything about him is different from the Obito persona we once knew. In addition, there's the fact he no longer believes "his" old name holds any value, yet would rather be called Tobi or Madara. I believe the name "Tobi" used in this article is to more or less represent a completely different character apart from the previous Obito. I personally cannot fathom that the arguably stupidest kid in the Narutoverse has become one of the most evil masterminds and most intelligent beings in the series. In regards to the timeline, I thoroughly disagree he should be called Obito until he at least acknowledges it himself/we have learned every shred of his background. --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 19:37, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Forgive me if this seems rude, but it really doesn't matter if you agree or if you can "comprehend" Obito as Tobi. He is who he is and that is fact. It doesn't matter how much he's changed or what he formerly was, he is who he is now and that's all we know. Your comments are purely motivated by your bitterness towards the current situation in the manga; a side effect several in the fandom seem to be suffering at the moment. We know that everything that has been perpetrated by Tobi in the present time (so the Plot section of this article) can accurately attributed to Obito Uchiha and, unless we decide to start calling him Madara in the sections where he was, in-story, calling himself "Madara" then it is, in my opinion, and clearly the opinions of others that is utterly useless to keep referring to him as Tobi in the Plot section and the background sections we know to be Obito. Keep your speculation that he's "someone else because he changed too much" out of this. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:41, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

It's not speculation that Tobi is a completely different character apart from Obito. You're jumping to conclusions by wanting to reword the entire article anyways since we don't know Tobi's background in depth. There are far too many flaws and inconsistencies in Tobi's history to determine he is one character or another, namely him controlling Yagura, statements like "do you have ANY idea how long I've been waiting for this" when it would have only been a year since he became "Tobi", and his emotions toward Izuna, yet disregard for Rin, who was supposedly the reason for him changing in the first place. I could go on, but I think you understand the point I'm trying to get across.

I don't see why it's so hard for you to have patience and wait for everything to be explained. Do you not have anything better to do than change every "Tobi" to "Obito" in his article? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 20:11, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, of course. To anybody who hasn't read the last twenty chapters, of course it's still speculation! Oh wait, you did read it? Oh, well then, shall I call you any rude form of the word idiot? I'm not sure whether it's ignorance or simple denial that you're still attempting to refute the fact that Obito is Tobi. The dude had his goddamn mask BLOWN OFF by Naruto, and who was behind that mask? Hmm... I'll take Obito for 500, Alex. I don't see what more explanation you're waiting for, other than Obito's face being behind the mask of Tobi. And Madara calling him Obito. And Obito admitting to doing all of this. And Obito, while still masked a few chapters back, confessed to being Tobi. What else are you looking for? Would you like Kishimoto to hold your hand as you cross the street of absolute denial to get these answers you're waiting for? If you have a personal problem with Obito being Tobi, great for you. Go rage about it on some forum. But as far as the FACTS are concerned, Kishi has confirmed Tobi to be Obito, and you just have to deal with it. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 20:20, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Unless somehow the Tobi from the beginning of Part 2 switched with Obito sometime after killing Konan, god forbid, then there should be no debate. Obito told Kakashi that he didn't reveal himself because the latter let Rin die. He knows Rin, and that's that. Is it so inconceivable that Obito grew his hair out while controlling Yagura? Fair enough, we don't know, and that's why we specify that during the parts that address that part. Another thing, Kakashi and Gai weren't THAT young when Obito attacked the village before the start of the series, added to the immature manner of speaking Obito adapted during that time [something that made me suspicious even then, by the way]. He used Kamui, a jutsu only he and Kakashi can use, and his arm dripped with zetsu goo after Minato royally pwned him. I don't see why these edits are being delayed simply because the "timelines don't match." You do realize that Tobi/Obito said all those things because he was acting as Madara, right? It's confirmed that Madara saved him, so it's easy to speculate that Madara taught him all about his history. But even outside unconfirmed speculation, I can tell you this, based on what's confirmed and based on what I'm suggesting.

1. Tobi is Obito, no questions asked. We don't need more confirmation.

2. Whether or not long-haired Tobi was Obito or not doesn't matter, I'm not talking about those portions of the article, even though it's pretty obvious that this masked man was Obito too, since Madara had white hair at that point in time.

My point is, since we know he's Obito, we should change all references to Tobi's name to Obito's instead. Because not doing so makes the article look messy and inconsistent. I can't believe this is even a debate. People who still deny Tobi is Obito should have no say in how the article is maintained. On chapter 499 I could sort of understand the shock and lack of information creating a doubt among anti-Obito theorists, but this is ridiculous. --M4ND0N (talk) 20:40, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Why is this even being discussed here? talk it out on the policy page that deals with manual of style. — SimAnt 23:16, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's appropriate to call Obito Madara in the sections of plot when he still went my that alias. Simply changing everything to Obito is short-sighted. Someone brought up Kazuma. Kazuma was also thought to be dead, and he did go by a different name, but his different name was just that. He didn't pretend to be someone else entirely, which Obito did, as Madara. Changing everything to Obito is the equivalent of changing tailed beast names in every article, which should not be done, as it creates anachronisms. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:44, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Armageddon must be upon us; I actually agree with Omni for once. Referring to Madara until he is exposed as a fake (when the real Madara is resurrected), then calling him Tobi for the remainder. However, should he be referred to as Obito after the mask comes off? --Uchiha Suraku (talk) 00:58, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Of course he should. He's Obito. I have to disagree with Omni, calling him Madara on top of Tobi / Obito would make the article messier than it already is. Besides, Tobi was an alias he used to hide his real name, and Madara was an alias he used to start a war. That's all these things are, Obito's aliases. --M4ND0N (talk) 02:05, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the above. Switching between Madara, Tobi, and Obito is just pointless, regardless of how you look at it. Obito is Obito. Those are just nicknames. Its irritating to switch from one to the next and is misleading to readers. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 03:40, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with ten tailed fox, Tobi was just a fake name used so he could keep his real identity secret, we all know who he is now so there is no point in keeping that or madara on obito's page anywhere but as nick names or alias's (talk) 11:13, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, as to the argument concerning the Tailed beasts, I am pretty sure that the name Kurama is popping up in multiple sections, both in its Plot and Background, as well as in many other articles, where its name has not been revealed. See Madara Uchiha's page, or even this one, or in the Nine-Tails' Attack on Konoha page, for examples. Point is, if we know their real name, it is pointless and arbitrary to continue citing their monikers in their articles, save for at the very beginning, or in sections detailing how they got that moniker. Readers are going to know Obito is Tobi. Just as they are going to know Kurama is the Nine-Tails. Why then, are we going to refer to Obito as Tobi and Madara in the Plot section? That's just confusing. Especially since, at least in Madara's case, the real Madara popped back up, and now Obito as "Madara" is popping up in Konan's, Obito's article, and anyone who came into contact with Obito as Madara, by the current policy, which makes no sense whatsoever. Just change all occurrences of Tobi to Obito. If necessary, you can throw in, as I suggested "Obito, under the guise of Madara" or "Obito, disguised as Tobi"; something of that nature. But keeping the use of the nicknames is pretty lazy of us. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 13:47, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Completely agreed. There shouldn't be a double standard for Obito, even if a few people don't like how the plot turned out. He's Obito, and that's just how it is. The Tobi who met Kisame was also Obito, since he recognized his unmasked face. Can we skip all this delaying and speculation? I'll personally help Ten Tailed undergo the edits if the admins give their consent. --M4ND0N (talk) 15:02, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

This is not delaying and speculation it is writing in-universe, also i'm not sure who changed Nine-Tailed Demon Fox to kurama throughout the article but it should be fixed. — SimAnt 20:58, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

It's not a mistake that needs to be fixed. It's a decision that's agreed upon throughout the wiki. The Tailed Beasts have actual names, so we changed it accordingly. Obito should be treated the same way. --M4ND0N (talk) 21:10, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Decision agreed upon? I thought that was the wiki policy. From the policy "Articles should be independent of any point in the series, it should not be required that pages be update every time a new event happens in the timeline simply because articles were written from the perspective of someone reading on the latest chapter" and "Articles should be written in an in-universe style". — SimAnt 21:18, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. I'm all for it, and due to the policy I think it's the proper course of action. And since we have admin approval, I guess that's an okay? I'll do my part. --M4ND0N (talk) 22:33, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

What? who said i approved? I was saying i thought Decisions that were agreed upon were policy, this is not in policy.I was referencing a counter argument. — SimAnt 22:45, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Alright, sorry, I got caught up in the momentum. I still think there should be an exception for Obito, since he wasn't referred to as Tobi during those portions of the article that refer to the Nine-Tails attack. And he wasn't referred to at Tobi during the parts of the timeline where he took up Madara's mantle. So in my opinion, it's too complicated to simply call him Tobi, since he rarely used that name aside from the beginning. --M4ND0N (talk) 22:54, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

During the nine-tails attack he was speculated to be madara by minato, but if i recall correctly he was referred to as the masked man or something to that effect. I don't see a problem with writing it as "masked man" during the nine tails portion. PS: I think that only the plot sections, character intro, and arc pages should do this. — SimAnt 22:58, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

That's true enough. But I honestly don't see the harm in calling him Obito since his name was largely ambiguous during the time we called him Tobi. His name is revealed, and we did do this for Kazuma. I like to think we don't go by a double standard method of maintaining the wikia. --M4ND0N (talk) 23:13, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Tailed beast names only popped up in those places because we failed to revert all the times that people kept adding them back. Is Kazuma referred to as Kazuma, in, for example, episode pages before the revelation Furido was Kazuma? He should be called Furido in those instances. Even when Obito was going by Madara, Zetsu still referred to him as Tobi. Did anyone call Obito Tobi between the revelation of him not being Madara and the one of him being Obito? When he was not Madara, we kept on calling him Tobi, because that was the only name only he went by. He should be called either Tobi or masked man in those instances. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:34, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Obito age

isn't obito's age is the same age as Obito.

Madara is Obito's ancestor?

It was said in the chapter by Obito that Madara was his ancestor. That is a surprise to me. I wonder how many generations he is descended from Madara. --Senjuto 16:36, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Madara is the ancestor of the whole (current) Uchiha clan members. We aren't sure if they are related from the same line. But if they are blood related, then maybe that one of the reasons why Madara decide to save Obito life. Hopemon (talk) 17:32, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

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