Talk: Ten-Tails (Kara)

Eye

Its eye is exactly the same as Kaguya's as the Ten-Tails, though having just 6 tomoe, but so did Kaguya initially before later transformations. What people forget, is that in-universe, Sasuke has never ever heard the term 'Rinne Sharingan' unlike us readers who know about it, in fact, no character has mentioned it so far. So of course he is gonna label it a Rinnegan since he doesn't know any better.... he did the same thing during 4th Ninja War where he called Infinite Tsukuyomi a Rinnegan Genjutsu, yet databook provided us with information that it's a Rinne Sharingan thing. Short version: Sasuke doesn't know the term Rinne Sharingan so he calls it Rinnegan instead.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 06:08, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. ★WindStar7125

20:43, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

Ditto.--Sarutobii2 (talk) 01:22, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for feedback. This is one of those tough cases.... we should document exactly what is stated, but should we document things that are mentioned but possibly not true if we know better? With the first approach, we should have listed the Sharingan as evolution of the Byakugan according to Kakashi when he mentioned such in early Part 1, but we didn't because he stated a theory, not a fact. Some fans forget, that not everything the characters in-universe state has to be a fact, they are not written to be omniscient. In this case, we know that Kaguya as the Ten-Tails' eye is Rinne Sharingan, this Ten-Tails' eye looks identical. Sasuke has a precedent of calling Rinne Sharingan just Rinnegan, so it seems reasonable to ignore what Sasuke says, change it to Rinne Sharingan and note in the Trivia that Sasuke called it a Rinngan.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 06:38, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Well the RAW did say that the beast possessed a Rinnegan, not a Rinne Sharingan. Heck do we have the Rinne Sharingan even appearing in name uin the manga itself?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 07:11, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Did you read what I wrote above? No, we don't, hence Sasuke doesn't know about Rinne Sharingan, only we do as readers.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 07:19, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Could be a retcon however, wouldn't be the first time a dojutsu was called something else and in the manga it was called something else. --SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 07:42, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Should we give precedence to information from a supplementary guide book that is five years old, over the latest information found in the source material? And for what reason would the author purposely mislead the reader — even years after the guidebook's release? Maybe we should reevaluate our thinking. Maybe the Rinne Sharingan is a Rinnegan, just as the Mangekyou Sharingan is a Sharingan.--Klue (talk) 11:43, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

It's not our job to correct the manga. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 13:34, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Don't we already do so though?--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 13:35, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

We can't, really. It's not like our articles magically change the manga. The people read "Sasuke said Rinnegan", go to the wiki and read "Sasuke said Rinne Sharingan" and think we're stupid. Just document the manga, it's not that hard. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 13:40, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Sasuke also said that Infinite Tsukuyomi is genjutsu of the Rinnegan, we note that only in trivia, though.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 14:02, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Language is flexible enough to make certain side-steps in text, if necessary. When I wrote the chapter article, I considered such a contention could happen, and instead of writing out the dōjutsu's name, I just said he made note of the eye, which is still true. As far as article texts are concerned, this remains viable, but for infobox listing purposes, we would be required to forego the artifice. Also Seelentau, I've lurked in other forums and places where there's Naruto fandom discussions, people think we're stupid one way or the other, no matter what, no matter how correct we try to be. I've seen people calling us dumb because they thought we listed the same user three times in the Wood Release: Cutting Technique article. If we just document the manga, repeating the manga's inconsistencies means we're stupid. If we work through the inconsistencies with logic and list things more sensibly, it's different from what the manga says and it means we're stupid. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:46, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

"Rinnegan genjutsu can be dealt with using Rinnegan... probably." --- I thought Sasuke was telling us that the Mugen Tsukuyomi is a type of Rinnegan genjutsu. Not that the eye itself is literally a Rinnegan. --Klue (talk) 16:43, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Cept it's a Rinne Sharingan genjutsu. Technically, as the progenitor, Rinne Sharingan is both a Rinnegan and Sharingan and to our knowledge, Rinnegan has no genjutsu powers of its own, those stemming from the Sharingan side. In fact, Sasuke's 'Rinnegan' could protect from the Mugen Tsukuyomi only through the use of his Susanoo, a Sharingan power.... this is pretty much all the evidence we need to deduce that Sasuke doesn't know any better and labels anything resembling the Rinnegan as such.--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 17:06, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

I realize the Mugen Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu of the Rinne Sharingan. Did not suggest otherwise. I'm simply pointing out that Sasuke only spoke on the type of, or the family in which the technique belongs. It's not as if he said, "Rinnegan's genjutsu." --Klue (talk) 17:25, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

"It has a dōjutsu that Sasuke Uchiha identifies as a Rinnegan, but which more closely resembles a Rinne Sharingan." ~Snapper T o 17:33, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

That's what we can do for the articles, but it doesn't solve what we treat it as in the infobox--Elve _[Mod] ^{Talk Page|Contribs} 17:41, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

The possibility of being wrong exists even beyond whether it's a Rinnegan or a Rinne Sharingan because you don't know whether to call it a kekkei genkai or a kekkei mora. Just do |Kekkei Mora=Rinne Sharingan~~presumed and move on. ~Snapper T o 18:01, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Point could be made as to why we even have a new article for this creature. Jigen called it Ten-Tails, so why is this information not in the Ten-Tails' article? To the people saying it's different from Kaguya's TT: How do you know, without knowing its backstory? At the moment, aside from its looks, there's nothing that suggests it's anything else than the TT we already knew. The only thing we don't know is how it got there. So if we'd want to be 100% correct, this article should be merged with the original TT. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 18:54, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

For it to be the same TT, there would have been need to acquire at least some portion of the nine tailed beasts again, and with Naruto being their communications hub, one of them would have sounded a distress signal, or at least went "I can't talk to X any more, something's up". Something like this seems very significant not to mention. Even in the anime Shukakau dropped a word to Gaara about losing contact with Gyūki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:10, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

True. • Seelentau 愛 ^議 19:29, June 11, 2019 (UTC)

Not to mention it can't be Kaguya, she was depowered and sealed in a new moon in her primary dimension.If it were Kaguya, that'd be the Gedo Mazo.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:39, June 11, 2019 (UTC)