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Madara said "Mito's Clan" when they were talking with Kabuto about Naruto as the host of Kurama, tho Naruto himself never referred to himself as from a clan, nor anyone else commented on Naruto as belonging to the Uzumaki Clan, as it no longer exists. There are no other known living Uzumaki in the village of Konoha... In case Karin settles there tho, would that mean it's functional again tho?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:13, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 
Madara said "Mito's Clan" when they were talking with Kabuto about Naruto as the host of Kurama, tho Naruto himself never referred to himself as from a clan, nor anyone else commented on Naruto as belonging to the Uzumaki Clan, as it no longer exists. There are no other known living Uzumaki in the village of Konoha... In case Karin settles there tho, would that mean it's functional again tho?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:13, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:As a structure the clan no longer exists, but that's not what we're 'focusing' on. It's more of a name. Madara did in fact recognise Naruto as such but, that was only because of the last name. Nagato and Karin are basically a given, what we need to decide is whether or not Naruto should be given the same courtesy.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:57, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
== Your edit ==
 
== Your edit ==

Revision as of 16:57, March 12, 2013

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Symbol as of 618

So, as of chapter 618, it appears that the clan symbol and the village symbol are actually the same. Does anyone disagree with uploading the village symbol as a new revision of the clan symbol? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:56, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

The red swirl is fine on the Uzumaki clan page, but replace the village symbol on the Uzushiogakure page with the clan symbol. Since The Uzumaki were pretty much in charge of the village.--Itachi7000 (talk) 23:09, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

The current Uzumaki symbol has that outer ring. I believe it came from a panel which featured Mito, and those were in the background with that colour in the spiral and the outer ring. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:29, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

That outer ring doesn't seem to actually be part of the symbol, but a complement to it. I remember seeing something like that around an Uchiha clan symbol before. Can't remember from where. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 23:52, January 30, 2013 (UTC) EDIT: Also, every time the symbol is seen, its without the symbol. Take the samurai outfits on the 616 cover for example. Both Sasuke and Naruto have Their clan symbols on them, with Naruto's all over the place. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 23:58, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

The arrows were a bit different in the manga but I think we need to remove the outer ring that we currently have for more accourate depiction. I also think that maybe the symbol should be white(?)/have no colour to match all the other descriptions. It seems like the village's symbol was the red one.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 01:25, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Just leave the red swirl on th oage as it is.--Itachi7000 (talk) 01:35, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Uzumaki and Uchiha symbols. --The Goblin 08:37, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

That's the ticket Gobby. That's part of the reason why I think the Uzumaki symbol should be white, and not red. Apart from that, it was said that Konoha has the symbol of Uzushiogakure on their uniforms, and that's red.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:00, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
Thing is, village symbols have never had colour. They're just the design. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, true, I was just going based off the colour on the Konoha-nin shoulder markings. Not too sure how the Uzushiogakure people made the distinction really. So basically I mean we use this for the village (needs to be renamed -.-") and this for the clan? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:27, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
As far as I understand, I think Uzushio symbol stays as it is, and we either redirect the Uzumaki clan symbol into it (similar to how we use redirects so Shisui's MS shows up in Danzō's and the crow's infobox), or we upload the current Uzushio symbol as a new revision of the Uzumaki symbol. No idea on what happens regarding the colour. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:38, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
Colour was just kind of a "differentiator" to me. We wouldn't mention that one is red or anything like that of course, but if you think it's the safer bet just to use the one we use on Uzushiogakure's article now for everything, I have no qualms with that either.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 12:19, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

I still go by replacing current Uzumaki symbol with Uzushio symbol. Just uploading that as a new revision should do the trick. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:33, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

So the same colourless one for them both? Don't think the filename needs to be change the file-name, people shouldn't concern themselves with that so much. I thought it'd be a good fit to add the red symbol for Uzushio, but we do need to get a move on this.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 07:09, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
For some reason, I'm not being able to save the svg file to my computer to reupload it on top of the current Uzumaki symbol. Anyone with better luck out there? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:01, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
This is what you meant right? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 23:18, February 20, 2013 (UTC)
That's the one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:25, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Known Members

Why are Naruto, Nagato, and Karin all listed as Uzumaki members but Tsunade and Nawaki aren't? They are all descendants of the Uzumaki Clan so they should all be listed, we don't know exactly how Nagato and Karin are related to the Clan, other then they were stated too, however, we know exactly how Tsunade and Nawaki are related to the Clan. {{SUBST:User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4/sig2}} 17:41, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. What should be the preferable way of approaching this is mentioning that they are members of the clan in this article, but it shouldn't be in their articles. Karin probably has no clue about her origins, we don't know which one (if not both) of Nagato's parents are Uzumaki, and we know why Naruto has the last name Uzumaki.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:59, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Hey we do know that karin and Nagato are from the Uzumaki, but In tsunade's case her and Nawaki are related yes, but they aren't directly from the Uzumaki they have Senju background aswell, showing thatyes they may have a bit of Uzumaki for them, but If thier put on the Uzumaki page then they should be put on the Senju page am I right tso thats why remember karin and nagato are Uzumaki so yep--Jean DaichouLoves Naruto 18:00, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah but how do we know that Nagato and Karin aren't in the same scenario as Tsunade and Nawaki? It was never stated how Nagato and Karin are related to the clan, we don't know which one of Nagato's parents come from the Clan. And we haven't even see Karin's parents. So who's to say they aren't related to the Clan in the same way Tsunade and Nawaki are? Ya know through a grandparent? {{SUBST:User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4/sig2}} 18:25, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
But the hair Is also a give away the Uzumaki are mostly the only people In Naruto that have distinct red or orange hair, showing that karin and nagato could be from the clan and they are but your right we don't know how they could be related but we know they are so you'd have to consult that with sysops mate--Jean DaichouLoves Naruto 18:33, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Please add a space between our comments when posting next time, otherwise it looks like one huge group of text and it's difficult to read. Anyway, I don't wanna edit it and mess up anything, so I'll contact the Sysops about this. {{SUBST:User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4/sig2}} 18:35, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Alrighty --Jean DaichouLoves Naruto 18:40, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I was under the impression, that based on what ShounenSuki said a while ago, that clan affiliation is based on the male parent. Given that the Uzumaki part for Tsunade and Nawaki is based on their maternal grandparent, they weren't listed.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:51, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

It is, or at least should be. That's why I mentioned that we didn't know which one of Nagato's parents were Uzumaki. It's under very rare circumstances that a male would take on their wife's clan name, such as if that clan were really high ranking. To date none of those examples have appeared in the series.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 18:55, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
True It may be a clan custom for all we know If a clan member marries a non clan member, but what should we do for Nawaki and Tsunade ?--Jean DaichouLoves Narutohttp://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090302032849/naruto/images/thumb/8/8d/Senju_Symbol.svg/600px-Senju 18:58, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
Those two can be linked to Senju. We don't know their parents, but we do know their parental grandfather he's important enough to shrug it and move on. The other Uzumaki members remain Uzumaki members due to be explicitly stated to be Uzumaki.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 19:09, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Good thats sorted then--Jean DaichouLoves Naruto 19:11, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

But we don't know Tsunade and Nawaki's parents, what if their mom was the daughter of Hashirama and Mito? Then that would make him their maternal grandparent, and their paternal grandparents could possibly be from the Uzumaki clan, or any other clan, or not any clan at all. All I'm trying to say is that Nagato and Karin were only stated to be descendants of the Uzumaki Clan, as I said earlier, what if they were in the same scenario as Tsunade and Nawaki? What makes them any more worthy of being considered Uzumaki then Tsunade and Nawaki? {{SUBST:User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4/sig2}} 19:40, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

We don't need to know who Tsunade and Nawaki's parent's are, her grandfather was a Senju so it's immediately impossible for them to belong to the Uzumaki clan. Neither of them should have their clan as Uzumaki. Mention that they are descendants sure, but not in their infoboxes.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:51, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe there needs to be a clear explanation of how clans/family names work.

  • Jane from House/Family/Clan X marries John from House/Family/Clan Y and has a child A.
  • A is A from House/Family/Clan Y with familial ties to X.
    • A is not a member of House/Family/Clan X, at least not directly.

The field is asking us what clan Naruto for example belonged to. He was from the Namikaze Family (Minato's words, he never said clan, still you never know) with ties to the Uzumaki and just happening to use that last name due to circumstances. Persons who marry into another clan are the only ones that can hold allegiance to two clans, not offspring.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:28, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

That explains that thank you for that cerez :) and could you answer my question on the Huga clan talkpage please --Jean DaichouAllied Shinobi Forces SymbolLoves Naruto 20:32, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Why can't they be Uzumaki if their grandfather is Senju? He's just the grandfather. And going by the whole explanation of clans/families above, that would mean if their mother was the daughter of Hashirama and Mito, and their father was from another clan. They should only be listed as their father's clan. See what I mean? Besides their last names have never been stated, so what if their last name is eventually revealed and it isn't even Senju? What if their last name was their father's and it was something completely different? And he came from another clan? Would they still be considered Senju then? This is what I meant by their parents are important. {{SUBST:User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4/sig2}} 20:52, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think those three should be removed. First of all, all three were explicitly called members of the Uzumaki clan, not just descendants, by Tobi, Kabuto, and Madara. Tsunade and Nawaki aren't considered Uzumaki because Mito married into the Senju clan. You can only be a member of one clan at the time, you're either born into it, or you marry into it. They're not listed as Uzumaki because Mito "became" a Senju when she married into it. Nagato and Karin only have Uzumaki as known ancestry. With Naruto, despite knowing that he got his mother's name instead of his father's, should still be listed as an Uzumaki because as far as we know, there simply isn't a Namikaze clan for Kushina to have married into, and even if she had, I also recall ShounenSuki explaining that men can marry into important clans without their wives losing the important clan name, as to keep the clan's name alive, something like that. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:35, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Omnibender on this one. Nagato and Karin were stated to be of the Uzumaki clan. Naruto is well, obvious.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:47, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
I think you guys might be right. Kabuto say she was from the Uzumaki directly and then in the frame that followed Nagato was drawn alongside the rest of them. That might actually be grounds enough to list them as Uzumaki. As for Naruto, I still don't think he should be an Uzumaki, it does hold true that men can marry into powerful clans as Shounensuki said, instead of taking a "no-name" but at the same time, there was no longer a clan structure for Minato to have married into, so I don't think that would have been the case for them. I think we just need to find a premise for adding people to clans in "exceptional"(?) cases like this one and stick to it. Once that's done we can have an explanation should others come thinking along these lines.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 12:57, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Madara said "Mito's Clan" when they were talking with Kabuto about Naruto as the host of Kurama, tho Naruto himself never referred to himself as from a clan, nor anyone else commented on Naruto as belonging to the Uzumaki Clan, as it no longer exists. There are no other known living Uzumaki in the village of Konoha... In case Karin settles there tho, would that mean it's functional again tho?--Elveonora (talk) 16:13, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

As a structure the clan no longer exists, but that's not what we're 'focusing' on. It's more of a name. Madara did in fact recognise Naruto as such but, that was only because of the last name. Nagato and Karin are basically a given, what we need to decide is whether or not Naruto should be given the same courtesy.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:57, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Your edit

How Is your edit relevant, Its fine but their's no need to say that they've resurfaced cerez O.O ?? --Jean DaichouAllied Shinobi Forces SymbolLoves Naruto 20:46, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

This is not a talkpage first of all. Secondly, if you feel there's a better way to describe people that fled and went into hiding reappearing in the series, go right ahead an edit the article.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:48, March 11, 2013 (UTC)
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