Talk: Yin–Yang Release

All characters?

Is Yin-Yang Release going to be applied to all characters' infobox? Yin-Yang release is the core basis on all ninjutsu, particularly non-elemental jutsu. As Fukasaku explained, spiritual and physical energy are combined to mold chakra. Kakashi and Yamato also referred to Shikamaru's and Ino's jutsus to be Yin-Yang jutsus.

Oh, and yeah, I'm new here so I'm trying to learn how all this works. —This unsigned comment was made by UltimateDeadpool (talk • contribs) .

It can be added, but eventually. We know they're based on Yin and Yang, but we don't know the exact mechanics behind it. For that reason, the only characters so far which will have Yin Release, Yang Release and Yin-Yang Release added to their infoboxes are Rinnegan users, and Izanagi users. Oh, when commenting on talk pages, sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:20, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't it kinda redundant to attribute Yin and Yang individually to characters? Based on our knowledge, they don't do anything individually, they have to be used together to use ninjutsu or Izanagi.

UltimateDeadpool (talk) 02:24, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

From what we know Yin-Yang Release is created by merging Yin Release and Yang Release. Izanagi was explicitly said to be Yin-Yang Release. We don't know other examples of Yin-Yang Release specifically, and we don't know how the other jutsu implied are exactly. Are they Yin-Yang as well, are they just Yin or just Yang? Because we can't say that, we can't add those natures without speculating. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:49, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

If Yin-Yang Release is to be attributed to all ninjutsu, then it would be considered a General Skill, and those aren't listed in infoboxes unless they are considered a specialty.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:51, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the thing though, Fukasaku explained that ninjutsu is created by using spiritual and physical energy together, which creates chakra. He explained this while explaining how to use senjutsu, which adds natural energy to your spiritual and physical energy, and the three create sage chakra. In addition, as I already said, when Naruto asked about Shikamaru's and Ino's jutsus when Kakashi and Yamato were explaining the chakra natures, they said that they'd explain Yin-Yang release later. So there's no question to me that all jutsus use Yin-Yang release, and that is undoubtedly the 6th chakra nature that Jiraiya talked about: Katon, Fuuton, Raiton, Doton, Suiton, and Onmyoton.

Izanagi confuses me, this new explanation that we got mostly contradicts the explanation we got before during the Sasuke and Danzo fight, and honestly doesn't sound any different from ninjutsu other than being more of a "magic wand no jutsu." Izanagi, despite being Yin-Yang release like any other jutsu, is just a very high-level doujutsu/kekkei genkai that can only be done with specific requirements.

And I can understand the "General Skill" argument. Although I'm a little more O.C.D., lol.

UltimateDeadpool (talk) 19:57, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

It is a bit confusing, but it seems like Izanagi is just a high level technique that requires BOTH great control over manipulating yin/yang and it's a kekkei genkai-- a mention that seems missing from the the description. It was mentioned in a few places that you need both the powers of senju and Uchiha to use it, so it's not simply yin-yang manipulation. That is more like you were saying, simply the basis for all jutsu, and more specifiically the non-elemental types. I know you want to limit it to things thathave been stated so there are references, but even then you should be able to change this article and the others to reflect that even though we don't know how they work, some jutsu like shadow manipulation fall under this catagory and that Izanagi is a high level tech that can only be used by those with the combined powers, an advanced kekkei genkai. 173.26.55.253 (talk) 18:00, October 22, 2010 (UTC) Miah

It would be good to add about Banbutsu Sōzō there? talk|contribuitions 17:13, May 5, 2011

If yamato specifically states "the manipulation of Yin and Yang is the source of non-elemental jutsu such as the Shadow Imitation Technique, Multi-Size Technique, medical ninjutsu, genjutsu, etc", and nature releases are a form of ninjitsu, then how is Yin & Yang manipulation a "nature type"? Genjutsu is not a sub-form of ninjutsu, so yin & yang manipulation cannot be a "nature manipulation" ninjutsu. Yin Release, Yang Release, and Yin-Yang Release should all be removed. They are not nature types, nor nature transformations, the quote even outright says "non-elemental jutsu". No offense, but I think ya'll put wayyyyy too much speculation into this to actually create pages for these 3 things. SkyFlicker (talk) 17:29, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

All elements are nature transformations, but not all nature transformations are elements. The word 'element' is actually never used in the series, only the words 'nature' and 'nature transformations'. Yin and Yang have been called such, as well. —ShounenSuki ^{(talk | contribs | translations)} 17:33, May 18, 2011 (UTC)

Basis?

I'm unable to tell, is the article saying that Yin-Yang Release forms the basis of all ninjutsu, or physical energy + spiritual energy? If it's the former, does anyone have a link to where that is stated? Skitts (talk) 09:58, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

are not yin/yang and spiritual/physical energy the same thing ? --Elveonora (talk) 16:44, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge, since Yin and Yang are nature transformations while physical energy and spiritual energy are the components of chakra. Skitts (talk) 17:36, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

nothing to indicate they are different, most techniques transform chakra into something --89.173.134.22 (talk) 01:49, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Anyone else no where that bit comes from? Skitts (talk) 19:31, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

To mold chakra you have to combine spiritual and physical energy. --Elveonora (talk) 01:01, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

@Turry. If you read the discussion above this one you'll see that the info came from Fukasaku's explanation of Senjutsu to Naruto I also think Sakura(or someone) did it a while back in the series albeit she didn't use Yin and Yang but spiritual and physical energies. While I don't think the two sets are different especially with the explanation of Creation of All Things. With that I'd assume that's what the article is supposed to be saying however they don't used them in their raw forms but in the form of chakra to perform techniques.--Cerez₃₆₅™ 01:09, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Woop. I finally got an explanation. Gracias. :-)

Edit- Hm, in the translation I just read, Fukasaku only mentioned physical and spiritual energy, not Yin or Yang in his Senjutsu explanation. I'll keep an eye out for Sakura's. Skitts (talk) 20:47, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

It's the same thing. --Elveonora (talk) 22:07, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

But they're not. Spiritual and Physical are what make up chakra, Yin and Yang are Nature transformations. Skitts (talk) 22:09, January 30, 2012 (UTC)

Yin and Yang "release" are nature transformations. --Elveonora (talk) 03:56, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

In'yoton or onmyoton?

In the anime Tobi calls it in'yoton, which one is it?--Red-kun (talk) 17:52, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

For me it also sound like this.--LeafShinobi (talk) 20:55, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

bloodline limit

Yin Release/Yang Release are likely something anyone can learn and use (non-elemental techniques), but isn't "Yin-Yang" unique? It's 2 "releases" used at once, just like Earth-Water=Wood etc. and since "Sharingan/Rinnegan, both Uchiha&Senju, So6p, Ten-Tails" and related terms are being spelled in relation to this constantly, I'd conclude as such.--Elveonora (talk) 01:03, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

The fact we don't know how each of them is made individually makes all of that speculation, and thus pointless to discuss until more information is disclosed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:16, October 22, 2012 (UTC)

Zetsu Creation Technique

I think we should make a new jutsu page for the technique used in the creation of the White Zetsu Army and Black Zetsu. If not both, atleast Black Zetsu. We know that the jutsu used Wood Relese and Yin-Yang Release to give it life as well as transfer the user's will and Madara teaches the techniques to Obito(And it referred to as a technique). Skarrj (talk) 09:36, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ah so you went ahead yeah and created one without waiting for a discussion. Why even bother to have this here? The White Zetsu Army clones are nothing more than creations that came about because Hashirama's cells are being fed chakra. Madara himself said they were nothing more than severely weakened clones of the First. They're about the same as the faces jutting out of Madara's chest and Danzō's arm. Blaxk Zetsu was also created through what I'm assuming is Yin-Yang Release which is still speculation at this point. Madara did say he was going to teach Obito Yin-Yang techniques, but he didn't say "I'm going to teach you Yin-Yang Release so you can create the White Zetsu Army clones" The creation of those clones was as much a natural occurrence as probably growing tomatoes.--Cerez365^™(talk) 13:48, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure either way. Unless some translation was severely messed up, I do recall some of Madara's parting words with Obito saying something about Zetsu being created through Yin-Yang Release, and not just Black Zetsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:09, December 19, 2012 (UTC)

All elements

Would users with Yin, Yang and Yin-Yang Release not have access to all five elements as well?--Reliops (talk) 16:37, May 26, 2013 (UTC)Reliops

No 0_0--Elveonora (talk) 17:30, May 26, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's high time we stop fooling ourselves. Naruto and Madara have been pulling elements from nowhere with their newfound power. I think by now it's obvious that they both have all 5 basic elements at their disposal.--Reliops (talk) 01:09, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

YRR has nothing to do with that--Elveonora (talk) 14:35, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Some research

I'm trying to figure out the mechanics behind all this and have a question regarding this sentence: "The Sage of the Six Paths had such a mastery over the Yin–Yang Release that he used Yin to make his dreams take form, and then used Yang to make his fantasies real. He could even make them come to life." - When was that said? Seelentau 愛^議 17:54, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I can honestly say I haven't seen, or at least recall seeing, anything around the lines of that information ever stated in the manga or the anime. It should either be removed as speculation or sourced... if there is a source that is. Kromatz ^(talk) 18:02, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Chapter 510, Obito says that to Konan. --kiadony --talk to me-- 18:12, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I thought so, too. But no, he doesn't. Seelentau 愛^議 18:16, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

So the sentence in the article is a mistranslation of that part then :/ I don't see any other options. --kiadony --talk to me-- 18:18, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

That's pretty much it - it's a mistranslation. We can easily correctly translate the information though. There are options. Kromatz ^(talk) 18:35, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 18:49, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Well, the translation we had of that chapter can be found at Forum:New Year's Fact Checking. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:55, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

I translated it myself yesterday prior to asking this question, and the above statement is just overstated and wrong. Yang doesn't make fantasies real, it gives life to form. Yin gives form to imagination, not to dreams. And to make something come to life is what BS/Izanagi does, it's nothing special. Seelentau 愛^議 10:45, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Should we put an infobox for this topic like other Kekkei Genkai releases?

Wouldn't it make sense for it now?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 22:15, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

No. Why would it? Yin-Yang has never been linked to kekkei genkai. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:24, August 8, 2013 (UTC)

It has, however, been associated with Obito's black orbs, which Tobirama specifically stated are Yin-Yang Release. Hiruzen also mentioned that it was made up of at least four of the basic elements, though he didn't say which, and was beyond that of kekkei genkai or kekkei tōta. That means, while it is neither of those two, it is more advanced than we originally believed it to be. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 02:22, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

The fact that Hiruzen stated the orbs to be atleast four different elements, combined with Tobirama's comment, implies that YYR could be a kkgenkai. Even though never directly stated, we have enough evidence to conclude so. Just look at Guren's Crystal Release for reference. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 02:52, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

I just pointed out that Hiruzen stated that it wasn't a kekkei genkai or a tōta. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 02:54, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yea, I know. But what I'm trying to point out is that Hiruzen's phrase could be interpreted differently form what you may think. "Beyond any kkg or kkt" could be of those that are already known to exist. KotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 02:59, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Except the only known YYR users are Grandpa Six and Uchiha rejects with Hash implants, after Obito explained to Konan the yin yang stuff about Izanagi, she even called it "power of six paths"--Elveonora (talk) 12:57, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, well, nice as that is, Kishi threw that out the window when he called Obito's black orbs Yin-Yang Release, and then had Hiruzen mention it was made of four or more natures. So... yeah. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 21:51, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure the chakra weapons are yin-yang release? Originally, when Obito hit Tobirama, the latter regenerated. The way I get it, Obito simply uses a YYR techniques along with the chakra weapons to achieve the new effect.--Elveonora (talk) 21:59, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty positive. Tobirama said something along the lines of "his technique...?! Its derived from the Yin-Yang Release!" That would make it Yin-Yang. Seelauntau confirmed it for us on another talk page I think. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 05:03, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

I would agree that it needs an info box like other kekkei genkai besides obito's black orbs have been called yin-yang release as TTF has already stated and a jutsu has been created from it so I would agree in that and infobox should be made for this --ROOT根 11:58, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Then explain how come did Tobirama regenerate at first. If his YYR and TTCW are one and the same--Elveonora (talk) 12:17, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

I don't have to explain anything. It took Tobirama several chapters to regenerate, so it could be that Obito's second transformation enhanced the technique. Regardless, Tobirama said its Yin-Yang Release, so the one who bears the burden of proof is you. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:54, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Direct quote from Tobirama was, "It can't be... don't tell me... your technique...? Fourth, we can't afford to take anymore significant wounds, even if we are just Reincarnations! That guy... he's using a Yin-Yang technique that can nullify ninjutsu!" ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:58, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

And no where in that statements it says he refers to the chakra weapons.--Elveonora (talk) 01:07, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

...I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Anyone who read the chapter knows exactly what he was talking about. No one argues that but you. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 01:34, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

...Pass to the establishment of an infobox then. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 14:09, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

I think the topic has strayed from the original point. The topic was made to discuss whether or not this page should have a kekkei genkai infobox. I think that it shouldn't. Nothing so far hints or suggests that Yin-Yang source is genetic in anyway, which is when we use the kekkei genkai infobox. It doesn't matter if the black orbs are four element combinations or Yin-Yang, its source isn't genetic, so by definition, the kekkei genkai box is not to be used. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:35, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

I guess there's no hard evidence. But again still, Konan called YYR power of six paths (Sage of Six Path's power) and the only known users are related to him or have stolen Senju/Uchiha power--Elveonora (talk) 17:42, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Konan said that using both Uchiha and Senju powers were the Sage's power. That power was a YYR, but that doesn't necessarily mean all YYR is something from the Sage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:56, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

Basis of All Ninjutsu?

I asked for evidence of this a year or two ago (on this same talk page, no less) and none of what was given actually supported the claim that all ninjutsu is based on Yin-Yang Release. And speaking of that, the article is very unclear. Is it saying EITHER Yin Release OR Yang Release is a necessary basis for ninjutsu, or is it saying Yin-Yang Release is the necessary basis for ninjutsu? Because it says both.

Anyway, as I said before, I'm confused. Ordinary chakra is composed of both Physical Energy and Spiritual Energy. People before tried to say that Fukasaku said something in support of ninjutsu being based on YYR when teaching Naruto what Sage Mode was, but in that all he said was that ordinary chakra is a combination of Physical and Spiritual energies, and that Sage Mode adds a third energy to the mix, natural energy. TL;DR No where does this article cite where in the manga it was stated or implied that all ninjutsu are based on Yin Release, Yang Release or YYR. The Tobirama citation is just him talking about YYR nullifying Edo Tensei's recovery process. Source(s) please? Skitts (talk) 04:15, July 19, 2014 (UTC)