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  • Well, Kaguya uses Shikotsumyaku, which I suppose confirms that the Kaguya clan is directly descended from her.

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    • Did Naruto trick Kaguya?

      Kaguya is ancestor of Kaguya clan(i think through Hamura which can mean he has that KKG)

      While in one of her dimensions BZ said in other 5 wich can imply that there 6 of them total

      Naruto first in series used not clon related or rasengan delivered or sexy jutsu.

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    • I believe this was a rather good chapter, it at least answers a few things. It also seems that Kokuō got the Boil Release, which then also explains Han's use of steam.

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    • That was very interesting to find out, but what do you think is the reason behind Naruto's clones not dying when Kaguya "killed" him? I think it was just a yang release shadow clone.

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    • FF-Suzaku wrote: Well, Kaguya uses Shikotsumyaku, which I suppose confirms that the Kaguya clan is directly descended from her.

      Just like every other Kekkei Genkai and special ability related to Chakra. That was obvious from the beginning, at least to me.

      As for the translation of her technique, I suppose All-Killing Ash Bones is okay? The Kanji should be 共殺しの灰骨. The Ittai in Naruto's technique is either 一隊, meaning party or gang, or 一体, meaning one body or unity. According to mangastream's translation it could also be 一帯, meaning whole place or zone. Their translation is very liberal.

      Gobi's technique is harder, though. 怪力 is obvious, but the other part could be anything. Also, mangastream doesn't even translate it as a technique, so we should wait for the raws in this case.

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    • what if naruto used a technique like spliting body used by 2nd tsutchiksge?

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    • Na, it was simply a clone. I guess he made BZ think that since the other clones vanished, the leftover one must be the real Naruto, but that wasn't the case.

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    • well kimimaru had the looks of kaguya and her family, all but of course the eyes

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    • @Seelentau sorry by my ignorance but "Rendan" means "Combo", right?

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    • Well Black Zetsu said that a total of four people got in, including the real Naruto. Two "disappeared" also according to BZ. The clone apparently gave it's to Obito and disappeared. But is that what really happened? I suspect Naruto switched with his clone inside of the shifting dimensions, meaning the Naruto that came out was actually the clone, not Naruto. The real Naruto is apparently disappeared. The question is "Where is he?". He might be in Obito's Kamui Dimension and can't be sensed by BZ while in it. Although this would beg to question why BZ sensed Obito and Sakura. Naruto did say his real self was going into the dimension, otherwise I would assume it was a clone all along.

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    • Kinda. It actually refers to a four handed performance on the piano, while the Kanji literally mean Party/Gang and Bullet. I don't know why exactly everyone and myself uses combo, sorry.^^

      @Omega64: BZ didn't say a total of four people, only "a couple". He also said that two vanished, leaving only one Naruto, so yeah, three in total.

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    • Just for fun and with your knowledge, how would you call the technique of Naruto?

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    • So....Sasuke's still not back! Yup, Naruto will definitely stand out as hero if Sakura and Obito don't do something quick! P.S: next chapter MIGHT be woo-hoo for SasuSaku fans O__O Get ready Naruto-Fandom.

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    • Leo Hatake wrote: Just for fun and with your knowledge, how would you call the technique of Naruto?

      It depends on the Kanji. It's either Naruto Uzumaki Gang Combo or Naruto Uzumaki United Combo or Naruto Uzumaki Whole Place Combo.

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    • That is a lot of assumptions there.

      Anyway, glad to see the Five-Tails (while also having Boil Release) was indeed a fountain of physical strength.

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    • Ha! I knew Kaguya Clan was related to Kaguya, not only are the kanji the same, but also similar physical appearance and stuff.

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    • THAT is an assumption we should not make, manbrodude. That scene needs clarification by the raws, since Mei's Boil Release doesn't heat up chakra, it changes its whateveryoucallitinEnglish.

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    • on Page 9 or so, the 9 tail's says he is refining chakra for naruto, so maybe that let him make a super clone or something that got killed in the desert?

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    • I liked this chapter. Naruto's support from the tailed beasts is a nice thing, since they are not completely useless. I knew that Kaguya would have some weakness, as the dimensional techniques are seemingly chakra-costly. The usage of shikotsumyaku was quite surprising(not too surprising, since we don't know all of what she can do, but still).

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    • Seelentau wrote: THAT is an assumption we should not make, manbrodude. That scene needs clarification by the raws, since Mei's Boil Release doesn't heat up chakra, it changes its whateveryoucallitinEnglish.

      Is the word you're looking for the pH level?

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    • Yes. Sorry, still tired from yesterday's football match^^

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    • The real naruto had chakra truth balls behind him.. The one that died didn't. (Shadow clone maybe)Or maybe sasuke can use some resurrecting jutsu like the six paths of pain with his rinnegan. Kakashi said naruto wasn't there anymore.

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    • no hagoromo-hokage part:(

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    • Kaguya and BZ cant sense the other five dimensions since they didn't know naruto's clones didn't disperse.

      BZ didn't sense Sakura and Obito. 'Cuz he said "the other two exhausted their chakra and disappeared" referring to the clones that followed them in.[1]

      Naruto could have teleported to sasuke with the other shadow clone, BZ said he could find sasuke with their Yin and Yang Seals.

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    • Hisana456 wrote: So....Sasuke's still not back! Yup, Naruto will definitely stand out as hero if Sakura and Obito don't do something quick! P.S: next chapter MIGHT be woo-hoo for SasuSaku fans O__O Get ready Naruto-Fandom.

      You say that, but knowing Sasuke, he's just going to be like "WTF are you here!" to Sakura. XD

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    • Seelentau wrote: As for the translation of her technique, I suppose All-Killing Ash Bones is okay? The Kanji should be 共殺しの灰骨. The Ittai in Naruto's technique is either 一隊, meaning party or gang, or 一体, meaning one body or unity. According to mangastream's translation it could also be 一帯, meaning whole place or zone. Their translation is very liberal.

      Gobi's technique is harder, though. 怪力 is obvious, but the other part could be anything. Also, mangastream doesn't even translate it as a technique, so we should wait for the raws in this case.

      From a reliable source:

      • Ashbone Massacre (共殺の灰骨, Togoroshi no Haikotsu)
      • Uzumaki Naruto All-Over Combo (うずまきナルト一帯連弾, Uzumaki Naruto Ittai Rendan)
      • Unrivaled Physical Strength (怪力無双, Kairiki Musō)

      Translations are my own and are a localized a little bit liberally.

      一帯, which basically means "all over the place," doesn't really have any succint, cool-sounding translations. "Area-Wide," "Crowded," or "Wall-to-Wall" maybe?

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    • You can tell it was a clone that got killed at the end - no truth-seeking balls behind him

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    • Can you translate the boiling part?

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    • So Sakura and Obito are going to save Sasuke, one he wants to kill and the other doesn't give a damn about this should be interesting. And looks like Konoha's Original Prankster pull a fast one again, I wonder where he is now.

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    • Didn't really care too much for this chapter. I would have liked to see a lot more progression than we got, such as going back to the Hokages and Hagoromo, and progressing the plot there.

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    • The Kaguya clan connection was obvious though I am surprised that Kishi went out and verified it. Maybe all KKG ninja are descended from her. My original assumption(aka speculation) on KKG was that they were originally bodily and genetic deformities like the ones we in the real world face today before chakra was spread out among humans by the Sage. Once chakra were introduced into the bodies of these individuals further genetic changes occurred through the generations and the kkg we know today were born.

      Hagoromo seems to represent Kaguya after she gained the Rinnegan/Sharingan(eating the fruit) and Hamura seems to represent Kaguya before that event took place. So Kkg like the bones and Byakugan were something she was with born while KKG like the other dojutsu and maybe elemental based kkg is what she gained/passed down through Hagoromo.

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    • Maybe it was Yang release to make things realistic like Naruto turning into ash

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    • It looked she used C4 alongside the bone release.

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    • There is no bone release. You are confusing on how Shikotsumyaku works.

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    • So that attack Naruto did with the help of the Five Tails, was that some Steam thing or Boil Release? And isn't there a possibility that those two are connected somehow? Since boiling water = Steam.

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    • Umishiru wrote: There is no bone release. You are confusing on how Shikotsumyaku works.

      I just call it that for short.

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    • by each chapter of Naruto I am growing to like Kaguya more and more.

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    • Naruto's trick: Yang Release or Ink clone using Gyuki's (Hachibi) ink chakra?? I believe even that is a possibility...

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    • And knowing kishimoto is one hell of an unpredictable author (Just like his title character Naruto) it might be something else..(Never been able to predict what would happen from such tantalizingly poised situations for a while now!!)

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    • This chapter was a little too short...but it seems kishimoto wants to end each chapter that would have us say,"Can't wait for the next one, A week is way too long"...

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    • It was a clone, notice he has no truth seeking ball, only the original have it, not the clones.

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    • Sanycool wrote: And knowing kishimoto is one hell of an unpredictable author (Just like his title character Naruto) it might be something else..(Never been able to predict what would happen from such tantalizingly poised situations for a while now!!)

      That's what I love about Kishimoto.

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    • Its Kakashi transformed into Naruto using Henge no jutsu and now Kakashi's dead. NO!!!!

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    • AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: Its Kakashi transformed into Naruto using Henge no jutsu and now Kakashi's dead. NO!!!!

      While that would give Kakashi a purpose again, I don't see any evidence for that.
      
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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: Its Kakashi transformed into Naruto using Henge no jutsu and now Kakashi's dead. NO!!!!

      While that would give Kakashi a purpose again, I don't see any evidence for that.
      

      It's Obito.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: Its Kakashi transformed into Naruto using Henge no jutsu and now Kakashi's dead. NO!!!!

      While that would give Kakashi a purpose again, I don't see any evidence for that.
      

      True but Kishi has proved himself to be unpredictable many times so if it turns out to be just a shadow clone or substitution, that would be pretty lame.

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    • Hey didn't you guys notice that Kakashi was there even though he never grabbed Obito and its impossible for him to have gotten there on his own since it required an enormous amount of chakra...

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    • The All Knower of Anime and People wrote: Hey didn't you guys notice that Kakashi was there even though he never grabbed Obito and its impossible for him to have gotten there on his own since it required an enormous amount of chakra...

      Kakashi could have used Shunshin, it dosen't require that much chakra.

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    • Ok kakashi part confused me a little. At the end of the chapter he says he entered fine but he is clearly still standing in the ice dimension.

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    • Wrong translation. Kakashi stayed in the ice world.

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    • so does naruto still have that special bond with kurama now that he has all the tailed beast in him?

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    • On that thought Madara1234, are the other tailed beasts within the eight trigrams seal or sealed in their own way.

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    • I think they are within him because they chose to be, i don't think they are forcefully sealed within him

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    • Madara1234 wrote: so does naruto still have that special bond with kurama now that he has all the tailed beast in him?

      Yes they are still good friends

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    • Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

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    • Well, she did transport them all to several various dimensions. A volcanic sort of place, an icy world, and a desert. Wondering is one of them going to be sort of a forest

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

      Just when I thought the Sage of six paths was the most powerful, Kaguya blew my expectations to a hole another level.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

      Technically, she doesn't have any ninjutsu. It was Hagoromo who developed the principals of chakra manipulation and ninshu, and ninjutsu didn't actually come about until much later.

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    • That's why I questioned us listing her techs as ninjutsu. They are jutsu, right, but the nin part means "ninja" which she ain't. In fact, all her techs should be listed as Senjutsu.

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    • Has there been any indication that she's using Sage Arts? I thought the whole point was that she was the first to wield chakra, whereas Sage Arts harness natural energy.

      So far she's really only demonstrated chakra arms, hair needles,and bone projectiles. I personally don't even think Six Paths Sage Mode should be listed for her... especially since it presumably originated with Hagoromo.

      Honestly, I think any ninjutsu-like techniques used by Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Asura, or Indra should probably be given a unique label, like "chakra jutsu" or "proto-ninjutsu."

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    • She can fly, something Kakashi attributed to Six Paths Sage Technique. She is the origin of all chakra. Ten-Tails was described as natural energy, so yes. I'm positive she is using Senjutsu.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

      That would mean that she is genetically related to all of them then. Kekkei Genkai are genetic abilities passed down through a bloodline, unless Hagoromo and Hamura gave birth to all those other clans then it wouldn't make sense for her to have all kekkei genkai just because she is the first human to use chakra. Not to mention she shouldn't actually have ninjutsu because ninja didn't exist at her time. What she's doing isn't really ninjutsu technically.

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    • Again, those kekkei genkai of everyone came to be from fragments of Kaguya's chakra.

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    • One thing for sure about this chapter, Kaguya seems more like a dependent child then like an adult villain of Naruto.

      Like the way I would be fighting Naruto and Sasuke.

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    • Elveonora wrote: That's why I questioned us listing her techs as ninjutsu. They are jutsu, right, but the nin part means "ninja" which she ain't. In fact, all her techs should be listed as Senjutsu.

      It's not explicitly clear what the mechanism behind Kaguya's techniques is. Indeed, the whole matter of chakra vs. natural energy is rather ambiguous in itself.

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    • Spyrocks wrote: One thing for sure about this chapter, Kaguya seems more like a dependent child then like an adult villain of Naruto.

      My theory is that as she ate the fruit from the Shinju the will of the Shinju slowly took her over. This would explain both her child like mentality and the difference between her starting out peace loving then turning into a tyrant. It's also an ongoing theme in Naruto that all bad guys aren't really bad but good people corrupted in some way.

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    • There's not even any evidence that the Shinju had any will or consciousness for that matter. For all we know it was but a magical tree, an object, not a character.

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    • Yeah, but something had to happen and it also explains why she thinks all chakra should be hers and hers alone, the stories that the shinju tree came to life turning itself into the ten tails(that sort of is) and also why Zetsu, and whatever his relationship to her is, is plant like. I admit it's not not 100% fool proof but it does certainly answer more questions than it raises and it's just a theory.

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    • Actually Ten-Tails is Kaguya fused with shinju

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: Actually Ten-Tails is Kaguya fused with shinju

      That's kind of what I'm saying but there's more than one way to fuse, one mind in anothers body or both minds in the same body or both minds and bodies in one joined body. It's been a while since I saw the movie "Akira" but basically he developed powers too rapidly to control them and they took him over, that's what I have the Shinju's power basically doing to Kaguya but based on the stories that the Shinju itself came to life in an attempt to get its chakra back I'm adding in the will of the Shinju also taking her over.

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    • The shinju dosen't have a will, the power corrupted her. Like Orochimaru, if he hadn't gotten some of the powers he had, since working with Anko he wouldn't be evil. Since he was revived without them he has been completely different.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Again, those kekkei genkai of everyone came to be from fragments of Kaguya's chakra.

      Having one's chakra does not give you their KKG, though. If that were the case Orochimaru would not need to switch bodies into order to gain the sharingan. He would have just absorbed Sasuke's chakra like did with Kabuto.

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    • Orochimaru still has all the powers he had before being revived, plus he has his arms back now. Oro just gained a god complex and a lack of care for any other individuals, same with Madara and at one point Kabuto and Nagato.

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    • Man of Sin wrote: Having one's chakra does not give you their KKG, though. If that were the case Orochimaru would not need to switch bodies into order to gain the sharingan. He would have just absorbed Sasuke's chakra like did with Kabuto.

      It does (Rinnegan says hello), but the chakras have to merge first I believe, something that apparently takes some time.

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    • Also guys, Im not trying to be off topic here, but I need to know if you people agree with me here, on who should be the English dub for Hagoromo.

      Should it be John Avner?

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    • Elveonora wrote:

      Man of Sin wrote: Having one's chakra does not give you their KKG, though. If that were the case Orochimaru would not need to switch bodies into order to gain the sharingan. He would have just absorbed Sasuke's chakra like did with Kabuto.

      It does (Rinnegan says hello), but the chakras have to merge first I believe, something that apparently takes some time.

      Madara already had the Rinnegan, a watered version known as the Sharingan. Plus, the Rinnegan is special as you need to be near death to get it, unlike other KKG.

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    • "you need to be near death" that wasn't stated

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    • It wasn't stated but it was hinted to, as Madara only awakened it when he was near death and old. Sasuke awakened it when he was near death. I don't know how to explain that kind of need to awaken the eyes though.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: It wasn't stated but it was hinted to, as Madara only awakened it when he was near death and old. Sasuke awakened it when he was near death. I don't know how to explain that kind of need to awaken the eyes though.

      For now it's most likely a coincidence. What is truly needed to awaken the Rinnegan is to fuse Indra and Asura's chakra in one body.

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    • I'm certain that two different chakras merge over time when exposed to each other. Orochimaru hinted on this during chunin exams in the forest with a claim that it had been many years since Naruto became a jinchuuriki and that his and Kurama's chakra will eventually merge.

      In the same light, the most likely reason for why it took years for Madaara to get the Rinnegan was because his Indra chakra needed time to merge with Ashura chakra into one.

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    • Then why did sasuke only get one rinnegan and madara got two

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    • Yet another chapter showing what a pathetic villain Kaguya is.. and yet another showing us that BZ is really the one whos a threat here.. he literally has to tell her what to do...hes def gonna turn out to be the real last villain either taking her over after she loses, or finding out shes not as great as hes hyped her out to be after spending all these millennia trying to get her back. Besides he makes for a better villain anyways; been around longer, pretty much manipulated all of history, is far more menacing, isnt even human so Kishi can have him be killed without having to dehumaizing him or have him be redeemed, and is essentially pure mass of hatred; a fitting final villain, no? Hatred itself.

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    • I'm not exactly sure that you are reading the same series as the rest of us.

      RexGodwin wrote: Yet another chapter showing what a pathetic villain Kaguya is.. and yet another showing us that BZ is really the one whos a threat here.

      This line being the undeniable proof of that.

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    • Black Zetsu more or less IS Kaguya. He's her will, so of course he'd be calling most of the shots. Before she was sealed, she literally channeled all of her 'drive' into one singular entity. They're one and the same, they just happen to be split off at the moment.

      And I'm with Ten; you sure you're reading the same manga? Kaguya is anything but pathetic. We don't call women who can create their own bloody dimensions and then kick the ass out of Sasuke and Naruto with no effort at all to be "pathetic".

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    • She was apparently harboring feelings for "the children" naruto and sasuke, which is I guess why she hasn't tried to flat out kill them until this chapter.

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    • Not to mention something tells me she wants to save up as much chakra as she can.

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    • Elveonora wrote: I'm certain that two different chakras merge over time when exposed to each other. Orochimaru hinted on this during chunin exams in the forest with a claim that it had been many years since Naruto became a jinchuuriki and that his and Kurama's chakra will eventually merge.

      In the same light, the most likely reason for why it took years for Madaara to get the Rinnegan was because his Indra chakra needed time to merge with Ashura chakra into one.

      Naruto had his mother's chakra inside for years. But he doesn't have chakra chain which is hinted to be a KKG of the Uzumaki.

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    • It wasn't merging, just sealed there somewhere in his guts waiting to be released when he tries to control Kurama.

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    • It wasn't sealed in him, a conscious piece of her chakra was part of the ET seal.

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    • Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

      That would mean that she is genetically related to all of them then. Kekkei Genkai are genetic abilities passed down through a bloodline, unless Hagoromo and Hamura gave birth to all those other clans then it wouldn't make sense for her to have all kekkei genkai just because she is the first human to use chakra. Not to mention she shouldn't actually have ninjutsu because ninja didn't exist at her time. What she's doing isn't really ninjutsu technically.

      Well, here's my thought process. Kaguya was the only human to have chakra, until her children were born. Then the three were the only humans to have chakra. Six Paths then went around the world, spreading peace, love and chakra to all humans. Kekkei Genkai are implied to be the result of some sort of clan-exclusive genetic advantage mixed with chakra. As the progenitor of Chakra, Kaguya has a link to all chakra and I guess can draw upon them. So in that way, while she isn't the literal, biological ancestor of all ninja and their KKG, as the original one, it could call upon their powers. It's kind of like the Pokémon Mew (sorry if you don't follow Pokémon) It can transform into any of the other 720 and use their powers, despite not being one of those 720.

      There's also the fact that we don't know what eating the Chakra fruit did to her besides give her chakra. It could've given her all of the KKG in the world, which would've been passed down to her sons. Since we've only ever seen her direct descendants with the three dojutsu, maybe they went around "blessing" other clans with gifts (a KKG) to bring about peace. That totally sounds like something Six Paths would do and it would explain why she has every KKG while not being the biological ancestor of all the clans.

      And then there's the fact that aside from Asura and Indra, we don't know how many kids Hagoromo may have had. Or Hamura, for that matter. They might've been bigger perverts than Jaraiya and knocked up half of the women in the world. And this happened in ancient times, so Kaguya's bloodline could've been introduced into countless other clans by now, albeit in a massively diluted form, thus presenting itself as one KKG per clan. So she could definitely be the biological ancestor of all ninja in that way as well.

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    • Spyrocks wrote: Also guys, Im not trying to be off topic here, but I need to know if you people agree with me here, on who should be the English dub for Hagoromo.

      Should it be John Avner?

      No really, is the guy who voiced Void from Berserk, capable to voice acting Hagoromo?

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    • Spyrocks wrote:

      Spyrocks wrote: Also guys, Im not trying to be off topic here, but I need to know if you people agree with me here, on who should be the English dub for Hagoromo.

      Should it be John Avner?

      No really, is the guy who voiced Void from Berserk, capable to voice acting Hagoromo?

      I'm leaning more towards Dan Green. I love his work as Pharaoh Atem in Yu-Gi-Oh, and his role as Entei in the Third Pokémon Movie still brings tears to my eyes (hell, I literally got misty eyed just writing this). But in any case, I trust that whoever gets cast will do a good job. Even if the voice doesn't exactly match. (I'm imagining a deep voiced, majestic, imposing, God-like figure)

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Why is everyone so surprised Kaguya has another Kekkei Genkai aside from the three ocular ones? She is literally stated to be the mother of ALL shinobi and the reason why humans have chakra. She obviously has ALL of the Kekkei Genkai and Jutsu in EXISTENCE, because they all came from her (except modern ones like Strength Of A Hundred, Edo Tensei, Harem Jutsu, etc.)! She probably has Haku's Ice release as well. What a shock.

      That would mean that she is genetically related to all of them then. Kekkei Genkai are genetic abilities passed down through a bloodline, unless Hagoromo and Hamura gave birth to all those other clans then it wouldn't make sense for her to have all kekkei genkai just because she is the first human to use chakra. Not to mention she shouldn't actually have ninjutsu because ninja didn't exist at her time. What she's doing isn't really ninjutsu technically.

      Well, here's my thought process. Kaguya was the only human to have chakra, until her children were born. Then the three were the only humans to have chakra. Six Paths then went around the world, spreading peace, love and chakra to all humans. Kekkei Genkai are implied to be the result of some sort of clan-exclusive genetic advantage mixed with chakra. As the progenitor of Chakra, Kaguya has a link to all chakra and I guess can draw upon them. So in that way, while she isn't the literal, biological ancestor of all ninja and their KKG, as the original one, it could call upon their powers. It's kind of like the Pokémon Mew (sorry if you don't follow Pokémon) It can transform into any of the other 720 and use their powers, despite not being one of those 720.

      There's also the fact that we don't know what eating the Chakra fruit did to her besides give her chakra. It could've given her all of the KKG in the world, which would've been passed down to her sons. Since we've only ever seen her direct descendants with the three dojutsu, maybe they went around "blessing" other clans with gifts (a KKG) to bring about peace. That totally sounds like something Six Paths would do and it would explain why she has every KKG while not being the biological ancestor of all the clans.

      And then there's the fact that aside from Asura and Indra, we don't know how many kids Hagoromo may have had. Or Hamura, for that matter. They might've been bigger perverts than Jaraiya and knocked up half of the women in the world. And this happened in ancient times, so Kaguya's bloodline could've been introduced into countless other clans by now, albeit in a massively diluted form, thus presenting itself as one KKG per clan. So she could definitely be the biological ancestor of all ninja in that way as well.

      I don't see how spreading KKG could bring about peace. When Hagoromo seems to hate ninjutsu.

      Hagoromo was ugly, so doubt he got around a lot. It must have been Hamura as he was good looking and probably inherited his mom's horniness alongside the byakugan.

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    • Please tell me what chapter it was in that Kaguya's horniness was referred to.

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    • And for the insane KKG theories, explain how every one has a Tenketsu and will die without it.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: Please tell me what chapter it was in that Kaguya's horniness was referred to.

      When Naruto pulled out the Reverse Harem no jutsu!

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: And for the insane KKG theories, explain how every one has a Tenketsu and will die without it.

      I don't understand what your point is.

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    • Man of Sin
      Man of Sin removed this reply because:
      Double post.
      05:24, July 14, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • LOL


      Kakuzu died even though Naruto's Wind Release: Rasenshuriken did no physical damage only severing the Tenketsu.

      If Kaguya was the first person to have chakra then everyone in the five great shinobi countries descended from her, and would have KKG.

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    • No, Kakuzu did not die because of Rasen Shuriken, he died because Kakashi Raikiri'ed his ass while he was on the floor paralyzed, So your tenketsu theory only half works.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: If Kaguya was the first person to have chakra then everyone in the five great shinobi countries descended from her, and would have KKG.

      Alright then, here's why that is wrong. Chakra has been shown to cause demonstrable physical changes in individuals when introduced (the most patent examples being Orochimaru's juinjutsu utilizing the Sannin's senjutsu chakra to cause mutations, or the introduction of Hagoromo's, offspring's, chakra creating a Rinnegan in a transmigrant). These examples are cases where the chakra has merged with and manipulated the genotype (the DNA) of an individual to affect their phenotype (expressed genetic traits) on an immediate level. It is therefore feasible that the Chakra Circulatory System (CCG) could have originated as just such a chakra mutation. The progenitor members of the population, those who found themselves with this trait, would have found themselves with an innately hyper-efficient way to transmit chakra throughout their bodies, rather than having it settle in eyes, bones, etc. as typical phenotypic Kekkei Genkai (KKG) do. This would have enabled them to better utilize a more varied genre of ninshu or ninjutsu, which would improve their odds of survival in a shinobi-vs-shinobi or shinobi-vs-normal combat situation. This would then allow for an increased lifespan and increased likelihood of reproductive success. Over the untold thousands of generations since Hagoromo founded the world civilization as the characters know it, these individuals would have bred like rabbits, becoming, over a long period of time, the example of a 'normal' Narutoverse dweller.

      A similar track can be followed for the existence and variety of KKG in modern Naruto, which the revision that KKG are likely recessive traits that exhibit complete dominance in the genome.

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    • We already know for a fact that Hagoromo was the one who gave chakra to mankind, using a technique to spread and disperse it to his followers while teaching the Ninshu creed. He did so because he thought that chakra would connect everyone and put an end to war and suffering; however, after he died, mankind eventually transformed ninshu into ninjutsu, severing their bonds and using chakra as a weapon.

      It remains to be seen if other kekkei genkai originated with Kaguya; I'd be willing to bet that Jugo's does, but beyond that I am less certain. I wouldn't be surprised if she were the origin of all these mutations, similar to Apocalypse in the X-Men setting.

      However, there are also several strong implications that these genetic mutations are preserved, if not cultivated, through selective breeding.

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    • Thanks for the logical co-op, FF-Suzaku. Anyway, the combination of these last two posts should demonstrate, with as much scientific accuracy possible in a universe where you can stab someone with magical lightning that sounds like birds, that the existence of universal traits like the CCS does not imply universal presence of KKG.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Alright then, here's why that is wrong. Chakra has been shown to cause demonstrable physical changes in individuals when introduced (the most patent examples being Orochimaru's juinjutsu utilizing the Sannin's senjutsu chakra to cause mutations)
      Juinjutsu was based on a already existing KKG.
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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: If Kaguya was the first person to have chakra then everyone in the five great shinobi countries descended from her, and would have KKG.

      Alright then, here's why that is wrong. Chakra has been shown to cause demonstrable physical changes in individuals when introduced (the most patent examples being Orochimaru's juinjutsu utilizing the Sannin's senjutsu chakra to cause mutations, or the introduction of Hagoromo's, offspring's, chakra creating a Rinnegan in a transmigrant). These examples are cases where the chakra has merged with and manipulated the genotype (the DNA) of an individual to affect their phenotype (expressed genetic traits) on an immediate level. It is therefore feasible that the Chakra Circulatory System (CCG) could have originated as just such a chakra mutation. The progenitor members of the population, those who found themselves with this trait, would have found themselves with an innately hyper-efficient way to transmit chakra throughout their bodies, rather than having it settle in eyes, bones, etc. as typical phenotypic Kekkei Genkai (KKG) do. This would have enabled them to better utilize a more varied genre of ninshu or ninjutsu, which would improve their odds of survival in a shinobi-vs-shinobi or shinobi-vs-normal combat situation. This would then allow for an increased lifespan and increased likelihood of reproductive success. Over the untold thousands of generations since Hagoromo founded the world civilization as the characters know it, these individuals would have bred like rabbits, becoming, over a long period of time, the example of a 'normal' Narutoverse dweller.

      A similar track can be followed for the existence and variety of KKG in modern Naruto, which the revision that KKG are likely recessive traits that exhibit complete dominance in the genome.

      Juinjutsu was based on a already existing KKG. It's like how Obito, Madara, and Danzo getting wood release. In both examples most did not survive having foreign KKG place in their bodies.

      Plus, Madara already had the genetics for the Rinnegan being a descendent of Hagoromo.

      FF-Suzaku wrote: It remains to be seen if other kekkei genkai originated with Kaguya; I'd be willing to bet that Jugo's does, but beyond that I am less certain. I wouldn't be surprised if she were the origin of all these mutations, similar to Apocalypse in the X-Men setting.

      Kaguya has already shown the ability to combine all the elements togethers(Truth Seeking Balls) and allowing Madara to use storm release. So I think it's safe to say that KKGs to combine the elements came from her as well.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: No, Kakuzu did not die because of Rasen Shuriken, he died because Kakashi Raikiri'ed his ass while he was on the floor paralyzed, So your tenketsu theory only half works.

      No Kakashi stabbed him with the Raikiri, destroying the water mask, before Naruto even got there. Tsunade said he died at a cellular level because there was no chakra.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: No, Kakuzu did not die because of Rasen Shuriken, he died because Kakashi Raikiri'ed his ass while he was on the floor paralyzed, So your tenketsu theory only half works.

      No Kakashi stabbed him with the Raikiri, destroying the water mask, before Naruto even got there. Tsunade said he died at a cellular level because there was no chakra.

      Reread the manga. Naruto destroyed two of Kakuzu's hearts. Before him, Kakashi and Hidan destroyed other two hearts. Since Kakuzu had five hearts in total, the last one was destroyed by Kakashi after Naruto's Rasenshuriken landed.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Spyrocks wrote:

      Spyrocks wrote: Also guys, Im not trying to be off topic here, but I need to know if you people agree with me here, on who should be the English dub for Hagoromo.

      Should it be John Avner?

      No really, is the guy who voiced Void from Berserk, capable to voice acting Hagoromo?

      I'm leaning more towards Dan Green. I love his work as Pharaoh Atem in Yu-Gi-Oh, and his role as Entei in the Third Pokémon Movie still brings tears to my eyes (hell, I literally got misty eyed just writing this). But in any case, I trust that whoever gets cast will do a good job. Even if the voice doesn't exactly match. (I'm imagining a deep voiced, majestic, imposing, God-like figure)

      Well I think Void's voice was god like too, but I guess it is too dark for Hagoromo's Character.

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    • I thought Kakashi prepared the Raikiri to kill him but didn't need it, he's never actually shown using it he just prepares the Raikiri and then there is movement.

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    • Man of Sin wrote:

      Juinjutsu was based on a already existing KKG. It's like how Obito, Madara, and Danzo getting wood release. In both examples most did not survive having foreign KKG place in their bodies.

      Plus, Madara already had the genetics for the Rinnegan being a descendent of Hagoromo.

      Kaguya has already shown the ability to combine all the elements togethers(Truth Seeking Balls) and allowing Madara to use storm release. So I think it's safe to say that KKGs to combine the elements came from her as well.

      I was not saying that Orochimaru's juinjutsu are examples of KKG, just that they are examples of the mutagenic effects of chakra on the human genome. In a technical sense, they are adaptations of a KKG used to approximate an unknown variable. The other examples (i.e Wood release, the Rinnegan of both Madara and Sasuke, Storm Release, and the Truth-Seeking Ball super-Kekkei Tota funfest) are all further proof of this. In each case, the introduction of outside chakras (Hashirama's, Asura's, Kaguya's, the Shinju's, and/or Hagoromo's in a case by case basis) caused a genotypic alteration in the affected individual, thereby allowing for the phenotypic trait, the KKG, to manifest. The evidence was presented in order to show that possession of the CCS simply implied a long-extinct person was mutated by chakra to possess Tenketsu and that he or she passed it down through descent with modification, as opposed to implying that Kaguya was a direct ancestor of everyone alive.

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    • Man of Sin wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: Please tell me what chapter it was in that Kaguya's horniness was referred to.

      When Naruto pulled out the Reverse Harem no jutsu!

      I always just thought Kaguya was surprised that Naruto would bust out (and I cannot believe I am saying this) 'That Technique' at that time. It was a completely unexpected turn of events. Face it, if you were fighting someone and they suddenly turned into a large group of attractive, scantily clad men, you would be shocked regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or any implied arousal.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Man of Sin wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: Please tell me what chapter it was in that Kaguya's horniness was referred to.

      When Naruto pulled out the Reverse Harem no jutsu!

      I always just thought Kaguya was surprised that Naruto would bust out (and I cannot believe I am saying this) 'That Technique' at that time. It was a completely unexpected turn of events. Face it, if you were fighting someone and they suddenly turned into a large group of attractive, scantily clad men, you would be shocked regardless of gender, sexual orientation, or any implied arousal.

      No, Sakura implied that it worked on Kaguya because she is a perv like her.

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    • Yamato and Danzo didn't get wood release from Hashirama's chakra, but his corpse which should have been dry of chakra by that time. It was pure genetics.

      Madara had got the Rinnegan because Hagoromo himself was manifesting inside of him. As shown in chapter 683. So it's similar to a tailed beast inside its jinchuuriki.

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    • Whose corpse?

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    • Hashirama's.

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    • No he did not get it from Hagoromo "manifesting" in him. He got it from re-merging the chakras. Don't try to add your speculation as fact.

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    • @Man of Sin, LOL. Oro cultivated cells from Hashirama's remains. Cells produce chakra. And Hagoromo wasn't residing inside of Madara. Madara had Hagoromo's chakra and I suppose Hagoromo used it as a medium to manifest himself in physical world.

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    • Actually, the energy within cells combined with spirit energy produce chakra. Shouldn't the cell be out of energy by that time?

      Btw, it was clear that Hagoromo did not have all the KKG of his mother. So how could he spread them around?

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    • Just because they didn't manifest doesn't mean they weren't in his chakra.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Just because they didn't manifest doesn't mean they weren't in his chakra.

      Exactly. Both Naruto and Tsunade are two of the few Uzumaki's still alive and they're both blonde, when the handful of other Uzumaki's (Kushina, Karin, etc.) are all redheads. Just because those two are blonde, doesn't mean they're not Uzumaki's.

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    • Tunade is technicaly a senju her grand mother was the only one in her family who was Uzumaki, redhair is a recessive trait so minato's blonde hair showed up in naruto. The other Uzumaki are all born from two people in the Uzumaki clan, thats how they got red hair.

      It seems rare that people marry outside the clan.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: Tunade is technicaly a senju her grand mother was the only one in her family who was Uzumaki, redhair is a recessive trait so minato's blonde hair showed up in naruto. The other Uzumaki are all born from two people in the Uzumaki clan, thats how they got red hair.

      It seems rare that people marry outside the clan.

      Well, part-Irish still makes you Irish. So part-Uzumaki is still Uzumaki. :P

      And ew if that's true. Although looking at the Hyuga clan and its uniform brunettes, and the Uchiha's crops of black haired people, I wouldn't be surprised to know Kishimoto's world has severe amounts of in-breeding.

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    • IKR

      Minato-Kushina & Hashirama-Mito are the only known couples to be from different clans.

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    • In-clan breeding makes a lot of sense, actually. The act of crossing over of chromosomes makes it so that even siblings can mate and produce healthy, virile young the majority of the time. And, over time, descent with modification would make it so distant cousins would be so genetically dissimilar that mating and producing defected children would be a rarity. That process has been followed by every sexually reproducing species ever. It makes even more sense when you consider selective breeding for the purpose of preserving KKG.

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    • Are both Nagato's parents Uzumaki? Or just his mum?

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    • Hisana456 wrote: Are both Nagato's parents Uzumaki? Or just his mum?

      Nothing is known about Nagato's parents. Tobi just said Nagato was from the Uzumaki clan. In the anime, Nagato's mother had red hair.

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    • Since red hair is a trait of the Uzumaki clan, its safe to say everyone with red hair has an Uzumaki in their family tree somewhere.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: Since red hair is a trait of the Uzumaki clan, its safe to say everyone with red hair has an Uzumaki in their family tree somewhere.

      That is both silly and fallacious. Red hair is an oft-held trait by Uzumaki's, but it doesn't entail being an Uzumaki (or being descended from one) if someone in the series has it.

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    • Yeah, Gaara is more of an Uzumaki than Naruto. Hair's the proof of course, believe it.

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    • I actually think it's a little silly to assume (at least until it's stated) that all KKG originate with Kaguya. That seems to take biology backwards, that is, these mutations are passed on, but her descendants never have more than one of them.

      Furthermore, we know that Hagoromo gave other people, unrelated to him, the ability to create chakra, so any number of KKG could have developed from those individuals and/or their descendants.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Yeah, Gaara is more of an Uzumaki than Naruto. Hair's the proof of course, believe it.

      Isn't Gaara's brown in the manga?

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    • Skitts wrote: I actually think it's a little silly to assume (at least until it's stated) that all KKG originate with Kaguya. That seems to take biology backwards, that is, these mutations are passed on, but her descendants never have more than one of them.

      Furthermore, we know that Hagoromo gave other people, unrelated to him, the ability to create chakra, so any number of KKG could have developed from those individuals and/or their descendants.

      Were they ever established as fact to be mutations? That was only stated for the Rinnegan by Kakashi which he was wrong about.

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    • KKGs are genetic mutations that give ninja abilities beyond those ordinarily possible. Kakashi wasn't necessarily wrong, actually. The Rinnegan would still have been a mutation, he was just wrong that the Sage of the Six Paths was a myth.

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    • Man of Sin wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Yeah, Gaara is more of an Uzumaki than Naruto. Hair's the proof of course, believe it.

      Isn't Gaara's brown in the manga?

      No. And my comment was meant sarcastically.

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    • Skitts wrote: KKGs are genetic mutations that give ninja abilities beyond those ordinarily possible. Kakashi wasn't necessarily wrong, actually. The Rinnegan would still have been a mutation, he was just wrong that the Sage of the Six Paths was a myth.

      As for Hagoromo passing down chakra, wasn't that only stated on the tampered tablet?

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    • Huh, what do you mean?

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    • Black Zetsu changed only stuff related to Infinite Tsukuyomi and Uchiha acquiring Rinnegan as far as we know.

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    • Yeah, that's what I recalled.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Black Zetsu changed only stuff related to Infinite Tsukuyomi and Uchiha acquiring Rinnegan as far as we know.

      He also left out Hamura for some reason.

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    • Skitts wrote: That seems to take biology backwards, that is, these mutations are passed on, but her descendants never have more than one of them.

      Btw, it's established that Indra inherited the eyes of the Sage while Asura inherited his body. So yeah...real world biology doesn't apply here.

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    • Man of Sin wrote:

      Btw, it's established that Indra inherited the eyes of the Sage while Asura inherited his body. So yeah...real world biology doesn't apply here.

      Except, yes it does. Take, for example, a man with blue eyes and a large nose. He has two children with a woman with brown eyes and a small nose. It is entirely possible for one child to have brown eyes and a big nose, while the other has blue eyes and a small nose. It is equally possible that one or both could inherit both traits from one parent. It isn't like Hagoromo chose to give his dojutsu to Indra and not to Asura. It's just luck of the draw, really.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Man of Sin wrote:

      Btw, it's established that Indra inherited the eyes of the Sage while Asura inherited his body. So yeah...real world biology doesn't apply here.

      Except, yes it does. Take, for example, a man with blue eyes and a large nose. He has two children with a woman with brown eyes and a small nose. It is entirely possible for one child to have brown eyes and a big nose, while the other has blue eyes and a small nose. It is equally possible that one or both could inherit both traits from one parent. It isn't like Hagoromo chose to give his dojutsu to Indra and not to Asura. It's just luck of the draw, really.

      My point was that the powers of the Sage family had divided over the generation.

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    • Man of Sin wrote:

      My point was that the powers of the Sage family had divided over the generation.

      I agree with you, and have made that point on several previous discussions. However, that fact is explainable under the rules of normal biology. Each son of Hagoromo inherited a different trait, with the mother presumably having neither. Therefore, what we can guess is that the Rinnegan-traits display a form of incomplete dominance, and also likely multiple alleles. We can theorize that the Rinnegan manifests with an allele pattern similar to rrr (R being recessive alleles for the Rinnegan) and that non-Rinnegan-esque eyes manifest with an allele pattern of RR (R being dominant alleles for normal eyes). The cross between an rrr and an RR (Hagoromo and wife) occurs. Possible combinations include an RrR or rRr (since the tri-allele trait only exists once, but the trait requires three alleles, one parent will donate two alleles). These two combinations will exist as a Sharingan or the super-chakra of Asura (with RrR being a bit more likely, in this example, to be a Sharingan because only one dojutsu allele is required for manifestation, allowing it to become more common over many generations, as evidenced by modern times). Only a complete reintegration of the two sides' genes (or tampering through the mutagenic effects of chakra, which is the only way we have seen thus far) could possibly create a new Rinnegan naturally.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Man of Sin wrote:

      My point was that the powers of the Sage family had divided over the generation.

      I agree with you, and have made that point on several previous discussions. However, that fact is explainable under the rules of normal biology. Each son of Hagoromo inherited a different trait, with the mother presumably having neither. Therefore, what we can guess is that the Rinnegan-traits display a form of incomplete dominance, and also likely multiple alleles. We can theorize that the Rinnegan manifests with an allele pattern similar to rrr (R being recessive alleles for the Rinnegan) and that non-Rinnegan-esque eyes manifest with an allele pattern of RR (R being dominant alleles for normal eyes). The cross between an rrr and an RR (Hagoromo and wife) occurs. Possible combinations include an RrR or rRr (since the tri-allele trait only exists once, but the trait requires three alleles, one parent will donate two alleles). These two combinations will exist as a Sharingan or the super-chakra of Asura (with RrR being a bit more likely, in this example, to be a Sharingan because only one dojutsu allele is required for manifestation, allowing it to become more common over many generations, as evidenced by modern times). Only a complete reintegration of the two sides' genes (or tampering through the mutagenic effects of chakra, which is the only way we have seen thus far) could possibly create a new Rinnegan naturally.

      Now explain how a magical tattoo turns lightning chakra black.

      Or how there is more chakra than originally in the Shinju.

      Or how Orochimaru switches bodies.


      Some things can't be explained with Real-World logic & physics

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Now explain how a magical tattoo turns lightning chakra black.

      Or how there is more chakra than originally in the Shinju.

      Or how Orochimaru switches bodies.


      Some things can't be explained with Real-World logic & physics

      1. The effect of the new Rinnegan chakra caused the newly empowered Sasuke to gain the ability to subconsciously access the Black Lightning technique. Or Yin chakra has been added to the mix. Or both, Black Lightning is really ill-defined in nature.

      2. More people = more spiritual and physical energy = more chakra

      3. Orochimaru delved deep into the worlds of chakra and science, amalgamating the two. He was able to convert himself, using this magiscience, into a snake being inhabiting a higher plane of existence, which required a human host (typically a corpse, after the effects of the jutsu take hold at least) to inhabit the base plane.

      Explanations: provided! In series ones, at least.

      In all honesty, science cannot be used when explaining some of the crazy happenings in this manga. I am not saying that our science is always the answer, here. Some of the stuff that happens (Hagoromo talking from beyond the grave and physically mutating our heroes, Kabuto being an exact genetic match for basically anyone and not rejecting foreign DNA invading his body, Kaguya being able to traverse through dimensions without tearing both the old and new dimensions apart, etc.) blatantly deny science as an applicable factor. When it is, though, and people deny or misconstrue that it is, I enlighten them.

      Also, as I am prone to long blocks of text, I ask that we please stop the pyramid quoting. Quote JUST the post, or part of the post, you want to reply to, for everyone else's sake.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      1. The effect of the new Rinnegan chakra caused the newly empowered Sasuke to gain the ability to subconsciously access the Black Lightning technique. Or Yin chakra has been added to the mix. Or both, Black Lightning is really ill-defined in nature.

      I was referring to the third Raikage's lightning tattoo.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      3. Orochimaru delved deep into the worlds of chakra and science, amalgamating the two. He was able to convert himself, using this magiscience, into a snake being inhabiting a higher plane of existence, which required a human host (typically a corpse, after the effects of the jutsu take hold at least) to inhabit the base plane.

      Law of conservation of matter, Orochimaru's new body rejects him so both bodies must be present. Yet Sasuke saw several people in Orochimaru's "dimension" if he had several bodies worth of matter he would be too dense to move.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Law of conservation of matter, Orochimaru's new body rejects him so both bodies must be present. Yet Sasuke saw several people in Orochimaru's "dimension" if he had several bodies worth of matter he would be too dense to move.

      To be perfectly honest, I am not exactly sure how White Snake works on a manga level, let alone a science level. This could simply be one of those whole mass-shunt ideas, a la Optimus Prime's trailer from transformers. If Orochimaru has his own personal dimension, he could then shunt the corpses into that dimension, reducing his White Snake's density enough to stay mobile. To be fair though, the law of conservation of matter only applies in thermodynamically closed systems; since the technique literally involves a microdimensional portal being accessed, it is thus perhaps one of the most thermodynamically open systems ever.

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    • 0_o

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Law of conservation of matter, Orochimaru's new body rejects him so both bodies must be present. Yet Sasuke saw several people in Orochimaru's "dimension" if he had several bodies worth of matter he would be too dense to move.

      To be perfectly honest, I am not exactly sure how White Snake works on a manga level, let alone a science level. This could simply be one of those whole mass-shunt ideas, a la Optimus Prime's trailer from transformers. If Orochimaru has his own personal dimension, he could then shunt the corpses into that dimension, reducing his White Snake's density enough to stay mobile. To be fair though, the law of conservation of matter only applies in thermodynamically closed systems; since the technique literally involves a microdimensional portal being accessed, it is thus perhaps one of the most thermodynamically open systems ever.

      I've studied thermodynamics too ;D

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    • Isn't it great? Also, I love how this discussion no longer has anything to do with 684

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    • Dear Lord, so much physical and spiritual concepts. Why can't school be as fun and interesting as Naruto discussions? ^_^

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    • Because school expects you to learn and have fun doing so. We expect you to have fun and learn while doing so.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote: Because school expects you to learn and have fun doing so. We expect you to have fun and learn while doing so.

      School definitely does not expect me to have fun. Otherwise they'd explain everything with Pokémon, Naruto and Yu-Gi-Oh metaphors.

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    • Pokemon Yes You can teach evolution, biodiversity, etc

      Naruto Yes You can teach history through different World Wars in relation to the Ninja Wars

      But YuGioh? I don't think so, save the world using card game loosely based on ancient egypt.? Even if i did grow up watching yugioh, its a stretch, its like saying we can also save the world using spinning tops (Beyblade). lol

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    • AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: Pokemon Yes You can teach evolution, biodiversity, etc

      Naruto Yes You can teach history through different World Wars in relation to the Ninja Wars

      But YuGioh? I don't think so, save the world using card game loosely based on ancient egypt.? Even if i did grow up watching yugioh, its a stretch, its like saying we can also save the world using spinning tops (Beyblade). lol

      I didn't say those things could teach you anything themselves. Only that people could use them as metaphors. Also, Yu-Gi-Oh could teach people about friendship and having faith. (In yourself, not religious faith)

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    • AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote:

      Pokemon Yes You can teach evolution, biodiversity, etc

      Naruto Yes You can teach history through different World Wars in relation to the Ninja Wars

      But YuGioh? I don't think so, save the world using card game loosely based on ancient egypt.? Even if i did grow up watching yugioh, its a stretch, its like saying we can also save the world using spinning tops (Beyblade). lol

      YuGioh teaches you about Ancient Egypt obviously. And Naruto also teaches you about science healing jutsus that use cellular mitosis, Orochimaru's body rejecting him, EMS all of them could be examples of Biology.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: Pokemon Yes You can teach evolution, biodiversity, etc

      Naruto Yes You can teach history through different World Wars in relation to the Ninja Wars

      But YuGioh? I don't think so, save the world using card game loosely based on ancient egypt.? Even if i did grow up watching yugioh, its a stretch, its like saying we can also save the world using spinning tops (Beyblade). lol

      I didn't say those things could teach you anything themselves. Only that people could use them as metaphors. Also, Yu-Gi-Oh could teach people about friendship and having faith. (In yourself, not religious faith)

      I know man. Who in their right mind would try to use them in a literal sense? We use them as metaphors to link to real world topics just as we do with assigned reading books in school.

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    • This thread is getting weirder and weirder.

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    • I hope no religions-are-wrong arguments arise :/

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    • I for one had thought we'd killed this thread weeks ago, and had spread my weirdness elsewhere. Left alone, it's gotten to the point that even I don't know what happened.

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    • A FANDOM user
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