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  • Izanagi seems like the logical choice, but i just want to makes sure. did obito uses kamui to let the flames phase through him after contact or did he used izanagi? i think he used izanagi for 5 reasons.

    1. he could 2. said he kept it secret which is why he survived it. (itachi knows about kamui) 3. the flames hit and followed as obito walked back. so he wasn't intangible 4. he screamed in agony implying the flames did hit. wouldn't happen if kamui 5. in the dark area, it was silent for a sec. then obito returned. like izanagi


    there was better reasons written by others, but i don't want to steal their glory

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    • In what instance are you referring too? Where is this?

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    • TheOneWhoLovesNaruto wrote: In what instance are you referring too? Where is this?

      After Sasuke vs Itachi, when Sasuke's eye automatically used Amaterasu against Obito after he revealed his sharingan. Itachi programmed Sasuke's eyes to unleash Amaterasu on Obito.

      @Sayian101: I think you're right here. Going by Obito's screams and his claims of a "secret", it seems logical to conclude that Obito used Izanagi. Kamui is Obito's trademark ability. If Konan could figure it out its mechanics, then Itachi should have figured it out too. So there's no reason to call Kamui a "secret" Itachi didn't know about.

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    • I just looked at it again, and there is no way that he used kamui. I know that much for sure. Then, on to speculation. I can not think of a way other than izanagi. Afterwards, he said that it was a good thing that Itachi didn't know everything about him, or else he would be dead. I don't know how that may translate into this, because Itachi knew about izanagi. If there was something else, I don't know what it could be.

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    • TheOneWhoLovesNaruto wrote: I just looked at it again, and there is no way that he used kamui. I know that much for sure. Then, on to speculation. I can not think of a way other than izanagi. Afterwards, he said that it was a good thing that Itachi didn't know everything about him, or else he would be dead. I don't know how that may translate into this, because Itachi knew about izanagi. If there was something else, I don't know what it could be.

      Itachi knew about Izanagi, but perhaps he didn't know that Obito could use it. But this sounds absurd, since Itachi was fooled into believing that Obito was actually Madara, and it sounds ridiculous for Itachi to believe that "Madara" couldn't use Izanagi.

      Maybe Obito's actual secret was the collection of spare sharingans he had, so that he could spam Izanagi at least a hundred times. Perhaps Itachi believed that Obito possessed only one sharingan. I don't know. None of these speculations really fit well. But at least it should be obvious that Kamui isn't the secret Obito was talking about. Konan had it figured out. So would Itachi.

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    • Why couldn't Obito use Kamui? He has been able to suck in an explosion with Kamui, so it's quite logical that he simply used Kamui to suck in Amaterasu. The other option would simply be to detach his burning zetsu arm and replace it with a new one.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Why couldn't Obito use Kamui? He has been able to suck in an explosion with Kamui, so it's quite logical that he simply used Kamui to suck in Amaterasu. The other option would simply be to detach his burning zetsu arm and replace it with a new one.

      Except that he'd be sucking his own body parts away to the Kamui dimension along with the flames, which does not solve the problem. The Zetsu bit sounds quite plausible, though.

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    • ^Even if that was the case for Kamui, he could still just replace his zetsu bits.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^Even if that was the case for Kamui, he could still just replace his zetsu bits.

      Yes. Your Zetsu theory is quite a good one.

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    • Can't he use Kamui to phase away only his body, and not the flames?

      Itachi must've figured out the teleportation part of Kamui, but did obito show him the phasing part?

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    • Thekillman wrote: Can't he use Kamui to phase away only his body, and not the flames?

      Itachi must've figured out the teleportation part of Kamui, but did obito show him the phasing part?

      I don't think we've ever seen Obito phasing through an attack after the said attack made physical contact with his body. This is nicely illustrated when that Aburame bodyguard of Danzo infected Obito's right arm with his nanovirus. Had Obito possessed the ability to remove the infection by phasing the virus away, he would have done so. Instead he just cut off his arm and replaced it with another one. The only way Obito could phase away from the virus would be before the virus made contact with his flesh, i.e. when the Aburame guy was lunging towards Obito but had not yet made physical contact.

      The same thing seems to apply to the Amaterasu incident. Obito's body had already come into contact with the black flames. There probably was no way he could phase through it, since Obito hasn't shown any of that feat in the manga so far. So the two options are Izanagi or replacement of his body part with magic Hashi cells. But considering the fact that Obito appeared in one piece without any signs of amputation so quickly, the only explanation that fits is Izanagi.

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    • As good as the replacement zetsu arm idea is, it can't be it. When he comes back out of the dark, he puts his mask on with one hand, and the other arm he puts behind his head, revealing it is still there. Also, the flames had already spread to other parts of his body. I am convinced that it must have been izanagi, and that the thing Itachi didn't know was the collection of spare sharingan.

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    • Yes, it was Izanagi. He still had both arms, so no cell replacement was used and Obito's Kamui doesn't work like that.

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    • Seelentau wrote: Yes, it was Izanagi. He still had both arms, so no cell replacement was used and Obito's Kamui doesn't work like that.

      More importantly, his suit is still intact. Izanagi simply writes off damage as a dream. Had he replaced his arm, it would've been visible as a damaged suit.

      I just checked the manga. It had to be Izanagi. And the others were correct about Kamui.

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    • Izanagi theory still has this flaw - Obito said he kept some things secret from Itachi, which actually allowed him to survive back then, but Itachi was pretty knowledgeable about the kinjutsu of Uchiha, especially Izanagi/Izanami and their history, we know it for sure thanks to the battle against Kabuto and the aftermatch. It's hard to imagine Itachi wasn't able to foresee the possibility of "Madada", the legendary leader and the most powerful Uchiha in history, having mastered the Izanagi technique. That's why for me Kamui theory seems more plausible - Izanagi's limits were already explored and descriped, and Itachi was familiar with them, but Kamui was Obito's personal jutsu only he possessed. OK, Itachi is smart, but he's not omniscient. He wasn't even aware of Obito learning the truth about him, and he truly believed Tobi was Madara all the way.

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    • Kamui still doesn't work that way. Obito wasn't necessarily refering to Izanagi, but to his countless eyes.

      The only flaw about Izanagi is that Obito had to know about Itachi's scripted Amaterasu, so he could activate Izanagi before Amaterasu killed him. Maybe he activated it while Amaterasu hit him or so, but the fact that he came back unscathed is proof enough that it was Izanagi and not Kamui.

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    • @Seelentau: Perhaps Obito activated Izanagi the moment he saw Sasuke's eye change to Itachi's MS. There's almost always some time gap between moment when Itachi/Sasuke activates the technique and the moment when the black flames are actually manifested onto the victim. Sensors like Nagato could figure out Itachi activating the technique long before the black flames were actually produced.

      So I think Obito had sufficient time to activate Izanagi as the sequence of events gave him the necessary time. First, Sasuke's eye suddenly changes to Itachi's MS pattern. Then, blood starts flowing through the eye. And only after that do the black flames consume Obito. I think that's sufficient time for Obito to react with Izanagi before the flames hit him.

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    • Nagato showed no such ability. He was looking at itachi's right eye and assumed it was amatersau from the bleeding but he was wrong, it was just kotoamatsukami working on itachi. Also, obito could have just prepped izanagi beforehand. Izanagi is one of the most inconsistent jutsu in the series, but in Danzo's use he would prep the hand signs, then after that each eye would remain open for 60 seconds protect ing from any attack in that time frame. Obito was shocked when he saw sasuke's eye changed, so there was no way he was focused enough to activate izanagi on that spot that fast, not even Danzo could do that, he just prepped izanagi before hand. But then again as I said, izanagi is inconsistent so the best answer for obito's survival was having his hidden eye have a prepped izanagi, or it wss simply plot.

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    • BakumatsuWarrior wrote:

      Thekillman wrote: Can't he use Kamui to phase away only his body, and not the flames?

      Itachi must've figured out the teleportation part of Kamui, but did obito show him the phasing part?


      I don't think we've ever seen Obito phasing through an attack after the said attack made physical contact with his body. This is nicely illustrated when that Aburame bodyguard of Danzo infected Obito's right arm with his nanovirus. Had Obito possessed the ability to remove the infection by phasing the virus away, he would have done so. Instead he just cut off his arm and replaced it with another one. The only way Obito could phase away from the virus would be before the virus made contact with his flesh, i.e. when the Aburame guy was lunging towards Obito but had not yet made physical contact.

      The same thing seems to apply to the Amaterasu incident. Obito's body had already come into contact with the black flames. There probably was no way he could phase through it, since Obito hasn't shown any of that feat in the manga so far. So the two options are Izanagi or replacement of his body part with magic Hashi cells. But considering the fact that Obito appeared in one piece without any signs of amputation so quickly, the only explanation that fits is Izanagi.

      Hmm, interesting you brought that up. little off topic but still relevant as far as kamui goes. what is your take on genjutsu? i remember reading some threads few weeks ago on similar topic about whether or not genjutsu can effect obito's eyes/chakra network when he's in intangible mode. some say it should still work others say it won't. unfortunately I can't remember if the thread said if he gets hit by gen before or after going kamui.

      excuse my quote error. i have no idea how that crap works.

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    • MIGshinobi said: Nagato showed no such ability. He was looking at itachi's right eye and assumed it was amatersau from the bleeding but he was wrong, it was just kotoamatsukami working on itachi.

      Except that Nagato was behind Itachi and was facing his back when he "sensed" the Koto starting its work. Nagato didn't see Itachi's eye bleed when he first sensed the genjutsu. He specifically says to himself something along the lines of, "The air pressure has suddenly changed!!" and then loudly calls out to Naruto, warning him that Itachi was about to use Amaterasu. It's only later when Itachi turns back to face Nagato and use Amaterasu on him. So no, you're wrong in this one.

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    • BakumatsuWarrior wrote: @Seelentau: Perhaps Obito activated Izanagi the moment he saw Sasuke's eye change to Itachi's MS. There's almost always some time gap between moment when Itachi/Sasuke activates the technique and the moment when the black flames are actually manifested onto the victim. Sensors like Nagato could figure out Itachi activating the technique long before the black flames were actually produced.

      So I think Obito had sufficient time to activate Izanagi as the sequence of events gave him the necessary time. First, Sasuke's eye suddenly changes to Itachi's MS pattern. Then, blood starts flowing through the eye. And only after that do the black flames consume Obito. I think that's sufficient time for Obito to react with Izanagi before the flames hit him.

      lol if he had enough time to activate izanagi, why not just use kamui? lol

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    • Sayian101 wrote:

      BakumatsuWarrior wrote:

      Thekillman wrote: Can't he use Kamui to phase away only his body, and not the flames?

      Itachi must've figured out the teleportation part of Kamui, but did obito show him the phasing part?


      I don't think we've ever seen Obito phasing through an attack after the said attack made physical contact with his body. This is nicely illustrated when that Aburame bodyguard of Danzo infected Obito's right arm with his nanovirus. Had Obito possessed the ability to remove the infection by phasing the virus away, he would have done so. Instead he just cut off his arm and replaced it with another one. The only way Obito could phase away from the virus would be before the virus made contact with his flesh, i.e. when the Aburame guy was lunging towards Obito but had not yet made physical contact.

      The same thing seems to apply to the Amaterasu incident. Obito's body had already come into contact with the black flames. There probably was no way he could phase through it, since Obito hasn't shown any of that feat in the manga so far. So the two options are Izanagi or replacement of his body part with magic Hashi cells. But considering the fact that Obito appeared in one piece without any signs of amputation so quickly, the only explanation that fits is Izanagi.

      Hmm, interesting you brought that up. little off topic but still relevant as far as kamui goes. what is your take on genjutsu? i remember reading some threads few weeks ago on similar topic about whether or not genjutsu can effect obito's eyes/chakra network when he's in intangible mode. some say it should still work others say it won't. unfortunately I can't remember if the thread said if he gets hit by gen before or after going kamui.

      excuse my quote error. i have no idea how that crap works.

      Sorry for not replying earlier. I think genjutsu should work on Obito, whether intangible or not. If the argument is that parts of Obito's chakra network is in the Kamui space while he's intangible, and that hence, his incomplete chakra network cannot be disrupted to put him under genjutsu, then we must take the argument to its logical conclusion and conclude that Obito can't move or do anything while intangible. Because parts of Obito's nervous system+chakra network+ body parts are in Kamui space.

      Taken to its logical conclusion, that specific argument leads one to conclude that Obito should die the moment he sends parts of his body to other dimensions. That obviously is not true. So I think that if Obito can move and jump around while being intangible, then it follows that he should be vulnerable to genjutsu, provided that the chakra is disrupted at the part of the body that is in the real world and not in Kamui space.

      lol if he had enough time to activate izanagi, why not just use kamui? lol

      Logic Win for you :) I honestly don't know. Kishi hasn't fully clarified what Obito actually did during that incidence, so all we can do is speculate.

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    • Sayian101 wrote: lol if he had enough time to activate izanagi, why not just use kamui? lol

      If he was aware of Itachi's powers, that means he had a 50/50 chance to guess Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi. If Genjutsu works even through kamui, it means he had to take a chance with Kamui or ensure success via Izanagi.

      realistically though, he had no way to be sure of what actually was happening. All Obito saw was Sasuke's Sharingan activating. Assuming it was some sort of attack was a safe bet. Since Obito had enough Sharingan, he could activate Izanagi without it being a great loss and ensure survival or risk death attempting Kamui as it may not necessarily defend against it (say, if Genjutsu works through Kamui).

      As to Obito's "secret", maybe it simply was that he wasn't truly one-eyed but in fact hid a regular sharingan behind his mask?

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    • Itach already knows that obito has spare eyes... they slaughtered the uchiha clan together. The scret is that he isn't actually madara. We saw how shook obito got when kabuto revealed that he knew, so if itachi figured it out things would have went downhill for obito fast. @Baku, yea I will give you that , he can sense it, but he didn't have any enhanced precognition other than he doesn't haveto see itachi's eyes to know it might be coming, because he " sensed" it after itachi's eyes already started bleeding.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Sayian101 wrote: lol if he had enough time to activate izanagi, why not just use kamui? lol

      If he was aware of Itachi's powers, that means he had a 50/50 chance to guess Amaterasu or Tsukuyomi. If Genjutsu works even through kamui, it means he had to take a chance with Kamui or ensure success via Izanagi.

      realistically though, he had no way to be sure of what actually was happening. All Obito saw was Sasuke's Sharingan activating. Assuming it was some sort of attack was a safe bet. Since Obito had enough Sharingan, he could activate Izanagi without it being a great loss and ensure survival or risk death attempting Kamui as it may not necessarily defend against it (say, if Genjutsu works through Kamui).

      As to Obito's "secret", maybe it simply was that he wasn't truly one-eyed but in fact hid a regular sharingan behind his mask?

      ok

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    • I'm trying to recall if Obito ever used Kamui in Itachi's presence

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    • He didn't use Izanagi-after Itachi's death, he used Izanagi in battle against Konan and he had only 1 Sharingan (which means he can't use Izanagi twice).

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    • Tobi has dozens of Sharingan...

      Again, it was Izanagi because he came back without any damage to his clothes.

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    • The third databook states it was Kamui.

      No further discussion is needed.

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    • Seelentau owns all naruto databooks and manga in raw format, and he is a Japanese translator. Pretty sure if it said it was Kamui Seelentau would know that. Bring proof next time if you have any.

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    • eh, I'm pretty sure it doesn't state that.

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    • http://oi68.tinypic.com/162yz5.jpg

      This databook was released at a point where Tobi wasn't revealed yet, so of course it's not going to say Kamui by name.

      However it describes kamui's properties of slipping through any attack and uses Itachi's amaterasu as an example.

      Pretty cut and dry to me.

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    • Ah, in Tobi's article. Should've said that the first time. :P

      Well, I guess that's case closed.

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    • it's using two examples, the slipping through one wasn't referring to amaterasu but rasengan. the amaterasu one it states he vanished through the air, izanagi works the same way, you vanish then return the way you were unscathed.

      if you look at the non red underline part when it questioned how "madara" survived his battle with hashirama, that same power is referring to izanagi. so either way it doesn't cut and dry confirmed whether it's linking it to kamui or izanagi or both. what we do know is the pics it showed is kamui and what's it referring to about amaterasu and surviving his fight with hashirama could be izanagi. if it were strictly kamui they would not had brought up that madara vs hashi fight. imo

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    • Sayian101 wrote: it's using two examples, the slipping through one wasn't referring to amaterasu but rasengan. the amaterasu one it states he vanished through the air, izanagi works the same way, you vanish then return the way you were unscathed.

      Nope. The entire red underline refers to Kamui. The vanishing through the air part refers to his teleporting Kamui.

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    • BakumatsuWarrior wrote:

      Thekillman wrote: Can't he use Kamui to phase away only his body, and not the flames?

      Itachi must've figured out the teleportation part of Kamui, but did obito show him the phasing part?

      I don't think we've ever seen Obito phasing through an attack after the said attack made physical contact with his body. This is nicely illustrated when that Aburame bodyguard of Danzo infected Obito's right arm with his nanovirus. Had Obito possessed the ability to remove the infection by phasing the virus away, he would have done so. Instead he just cut off his arm and replaced it with another one. The only way Obito could phase away from the virus would be before the virus made contact with his flesh, i.e. when the Aburame guy was lunging towards Obito but had not yet made physical contact.

      The same thing seems to apply to the Amaterasu incident. Obito's body had already come into contact with the black flames. There probably was no way he could phase through it, since Obito hasn't shown any of that feat in the manga so far. So the two options are Izanagi or replacement of his body part with magic Hashi cells. But considering the fact that Obito appeared in one piece without any signs of amputation so quickly, the only explanation that fits is Izanagi.

      In his fight with Konan. He tries to Warp away but the paper bombs attach themselves to him so he has to stop, then he switches to his faster intangibility and sends his body away and the paper bombs that were stuck to him then phase through his body. He could have done the same with the flames.

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    • Nah, he just spammed kamui like he always does.

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    • A FANDOM user
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