FANDOM


  • Jacce
    Jacce closed this thread because:
    Per request
    03:44, April 11, 2016

    Revisiting this topic since the old thread is closed due to LockForums script, though I doubt any real consensus will be achieved considering the very few people who edit here now.

    The titles seem to have been updated with very little consensus having been achieved. I am of the opinion that the titles provided by Crunchyroll and the DVD's should take precedence over local wiki naming standards, though redirects should exist if users just happen to want to find the episodes using the "wiki's naming standards". This opinion is even more so considering that the official titles do not have a redirect, essentially making the pages impossible to find without using the "List of Episodes" article.

    While some could just say that we could just make redirects for the official titles, I think it would be better that these episode pages using the wiki's local translation naming system be moved back to the official title that is provided on the DVD's and Crunchyroll, which are arguably more official than any names we come up with, not to mention that the names given by the wiki's translations are confusing to users and don't match what they're officially called.

    I understand that Rachin123 is making numbered episode redirects, though I don't think we should be relying on these for users to find the episode they want (what if they don't know the episode number off hand?) and it may confuse them if they type in an episode number and get a result that does not match the official title.

    Yay or nay? Discuss as well.

      Loading editor
    •  Support — I'll be brief, we should be using the most official thing we can find for things like this. That definitely being what you said above @sajuuk. I'm in full agreement.

        Loading editor
    •  Support

        Loading editor
    •  Support — If it seems more official then sure + the episode titles that Crunchyroll and DVD's use are more recognisable.

        Loading editor
    •  Support — seems like a good idea i feel like we should always try to be as official as possible being the official naruto wiki

        Loading editor
    • Is the wiki going to make these official moves too?

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose

        Loading editor
    • Snapper2 wrote: Is the wiki going to make these official moves too?

      Oh man, things like Team 7 and Fire Release are gonna be hard for me to let go of

        Loading editor
    • Snapper2 wrote: Is the wiki going to make these official moves too?

      Um...since when did Viz become official?

        Loading editor
    • Munchvtec wrote: Um...since when did Viz become official?

      Who do you think makes the DVDs that you support?

        Loading editor
    • I meant viz manga translations don't count in the anime. But anyways, like i said, the most official things should be used. As even if it's viz, it's the most official. No? If he's in the wrong then give me reasons why. Not some stupid excuse smh Maybe I'll oppose if you can provide reasons.

        Loading editor
    • Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke
      Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke removed this reply because:
      I do not think this post is relevant.
      01:58, April 8, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • How do I use the template?

        Loading editor
    • Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote: How do I use the template?

      Just type in Support with two of these ({) on either side. But don't add a space at the beginning like you previously did.

        Loading editor
    •  Support — Using the most offical names for things makes the most sense (obviously).

      @Munchvtec I did it wrong again, didn't I? Is there a learning guide for techniques like these?

        Loading editor
    • Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote: Support({)Using the most offical names for things makes the most sense (obviously).

      Surround the Support like this, { } but with two on either end. In the opening above it shows you how. I can't type it exactly how it is because it shows a broken template instead.

      Edit: Haha, good job.

        Loading editor
    • Munchvtec wrote:

      Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote: Support({)Using the most offical names for things makes the most sense (obviously).

      Surround the Support like this, { } but with two on either end. In the opening above it shows you how. I can't type it exactly how it is because it shows a broken template instead.

      Thanks for your help, I really appreciate good people like you. Sorry, I'm such a dunce.

        Loading editor
    • Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote:

      Munchvtec wrote:

      Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote: Support({)Using the most offical names for things makes the most sense (obviously).

      Surround the Support like this, { } but with two on either end. In the opening above it shows you how. I can't type it exactly how it is because it shows a broken template instead.

      Thanks for your help, I really appreciate good people like you. Sorry, I'm such a dunce.

      No problem but we have to keep the thread on topic now ^_^

        Loading editor
    • Munchvtec wrote:

      Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote:

      Munchvtec wrote:

      Tengen Toppa Ita-Sasuke wrote: Support({)Using the most offical names for things makes the most sense (obviously).

      Surround the Support like this, { } but with two on either end. In the opening above it shows you how. I can't type it exactly how it is because it shows a broken template instead.

      Thanks for your help, I really appreciate good people like you. Sorry, I'm such a dunce.

      No problem but we have to keep the thread on topic now ^_^

      Okay, it will be on topic now. But seriously though, why use wiki naming standards for things anyways?

        Loading editor
    • Snapper2 wrote: Is the wiki going to make these official moves too?

      Nothing to add.  Oppose

        Loading editor
    • I like how the only thing Snapper does in ~1 month is to try and defend his own decision by being sarcastic in a serious discussion topic and posting nothing helpful in the slightest.

      Either way, I thought this wiki was obsessive about officialising things like arc names to official data: I find it very strange how just about everything on the wiki has to follow "what the databook / Viz said", yet episodes are apparently told to ignore these conventions and be the "exception" and follow whatever random standards the wiki wants.

      Why can't episodes follow the exact same guidelines as every other article on this wiki? If it's good for everything else (right up to anime filler arc pages on this wiki following what Viz called them), then it's just as good for anime episodes.

      And why on earth would using the official anime episode titles mean replacing things like "Fire Release" with "Fire Style"? When people use arguments like this, it means they don't have an actual argument on the issue.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose — No need to change something that works well. This is a fan wiki, we can choose what we want to do with the material.

        Loading editor
    • BerserkerPhantom wrote:  Oppose — No need to change something that works well. This is a fan wiki, we can choose what we want to do with the material.

      Okay then, let's just ignore the databook! Hell, let's just ignore the entire manga! /sarcasm

      (Yeah no, we're not going down that path. And no, the current system does not "work well", the current system of apparently ignoring official anime episode titles an exception to all other "officially titled" material and I don't see why it gets a free pass to ignore the official titles when nothing else is allowed to do so).

      (And your stance is incredibly strange in general considering...)

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: (Yeah no, we're not going down that path. And no, the current system does not "work well", the current system of apparently ignoring official anime episode titles an exception to all other "officially titled" material).

      Yeah.. That's not for you to decide sweetie. ~☆ Works for one, doesn't for others. It works for me so I vote against your suggestion; Simple as that.

        Loading editor
    • BerserkerPhantom wrote: This is a fan wiki, we can choose what we want to do with the material.

      That's exactly what this thread aims to do; choose what we want to do with the material

        Loading editor
    • AsianReaper wrote: Oh man, things like Team 7 and Fire Release are gonna be hard for me to let go of

      I can assure you that nothing like what Snapper2 is proposing would happen, this proposal is about renaming the anime episode articles only to their official names that are provided in various official locations. No other article is going to get renamed, as the other pages are using the official titles given to them by their respective official source (ie databook, manga etc)

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose

        Loading editor
    • To my knowledge, the only non-official thing we're using is the episode numerization. Everything else is official, because it's taken straight from the Japanese source. Episode titles, arc titles, jutsu titles, everything. What VIZ and other companies do with the Japanese originals is up to them, no one ever said we have to follow them and in fact, I'm against it because of Snapper's reason: If we continue that path of taking the official English titles for episodes, then we can apply the exact same reasoning to literally everything else (as he listed).

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: and posting nothing helpful in the slightest.

      It isn't helpful to be reminded of the full ramifications of your proposal?

      SuperSajuuk wrote: I find it very strange how just about everything on the wiki has to follow "what the databook / Viz said", yet episodes are apparently told to ignore these conventions and be the "exception" and follow whatever random standards the wiki wants.

      Where on the wiki are Viz's translations enforced? Characters don't, as I pointed out. Jutsu don't, as I pointed out. Even the 700+ chapters and volumes don't; if you use Special:RandomInCategory/Chapters, probably the article title will differ from whatever Viz translation is given in the infobox. Some articles do much Viz, sure, but that's not as a result of any conscious effort to do so.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: If it's good for everything else (right up to anime filler arc pages on this wiki following what Viz called them)

      Viz uses:

      "Kakashi: Shadow of the ANBU Black Ops"

      Wiki uses:

      Kakashi's Anbu Arc: The Shinobi That Lives in the Darkness

      Viz uses:

      "Itachi's Story - Light and Darkness"

      Wiki uses:

      Itachi Shinden Book: Light and Darkness

      SuperSajuuk wrote: And why on earth would using the official anime episode titles mean replacing things like "Fire Release" with "Fire Style"?

      • "are arguably more official than any names we come up with"
      • "names given by the wiki's translations are confusing to users and don't match what they're officially called"

      If you're going to call everything that the English anime or manga does "official", and if your heart is going to bleed for those articles that use whatever random translator says instead of what the licensed translation says, then you should want to extend it to the entire wiki, not just anime episodes.

      If, however, you are only interested in anime episodes following Viz, and if you feel it is acceptable for those episode articles to differ from what the other 90% of the wiki does, then go ahead with that.

        Loading editor
    • This proposal is focused exclusively on the anime episodes. Stop derailing this topic with suggestions that this will somehow extend to any other aspect of the wiki, because it's not going to happen and you already knew this before you posted.

      I find it rather hilarious (and highly amusing) how the only thing you've done in just over a month since you "left" is to just come into this topic and oppose the suggestion by making a rather ludicrous suggestion that you know isn't going to happen: it's rather obvious why, as you just want to defend the changes you made to the episode pages.

      I don't know how you can even considering defending that Battle of Valley of Clouds and Lightning is, in any way, an official anime episode title, because it is blatantly not. Wikipedia doesn't use the title, Crunchyroll doesn't use the title, Neon Alley doesn't use the title and nor do any other source: the only location using the wrong title is this wiki. Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who watches the anime is not going to use any of these sources whatsoever and will just assume the wiki is "correct" when it comes to episode titles?

      All the episode title changes you made were unnecessary as you chose to ignore officially stated titles in favour of supposed "literal" translations with no redirects. Your argument is literally not even a valid rationale, it's just your sarcastic opinion about something that isn't going to happen under any circumstances whatsoever.

      You didn't seem to care when DuelMaster93 updated the anime filler arc pages to use the officially given titles provided by Viz, so why do you even care about the anime episodes themselves following the exact same format?

      Don't bother responding if you can't even provide a valid rationale relating to the naming of the anime episodes. They're supposed to be using the official name, and currently they are not: my proposal is to rectify that, but you seem more interested in discussing and suggesting things that aren't going to happen. Viz doesn't use the titles you made up, so stop suggesting that they did.

        Loading editor
    • But the episode titles aren't the only thing that we translate for ourselves. So when you propose to use the VIZ titles, it automatically extends to everything else (as listed above). Or is there a specific reason we should use VIZ' translations of episode titles, but not of virtually every other term? Especially considering we're not a VIZ wiki, but a fan wiki, so there's nothing wrong with fan translations, anyways.

      SuperSajuuk wrote:They're supposed to be using the official name

      And who even said that? Why are the episodes supposed to be using the "official" name, but not every other term? With the very same reasoning you're using, I could open a thread for chakra natures, one for character names and one for all the other terms and there would be no one stopping me.

      Again: This is not a VIZ wiki. There's no one telling us to use VIZ titles.

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: Or is there a specific reason we should use VIZ' translations of episode titles, but not of virtually every other term?

      Because every other term on the wiki has been translated from the databooks and the manga, which are more official than the English Manga translations, which take liberties with naming standards based on phonetic spelling (ie Ohnoki).

      However, the anime is provided in subtitled format translated by people more experienced than us, so we should be using their translations for anime episodes, because those are more official than our own translations. And that's a known fact, or are you suggesting that the wiki is more experienced than the animators (and it's translators) to decide how to name episodes?

      Especially considering we're not a VIZ wiki, but a fan wiki, so there's nothing wrong with fan translations, anyways.

      You do realise what you just said right? I hope you haven't triggered people into vandalising the translations based on this.

      And who even said that?

      You and the rest of the wiki did when you became obsessed with databook-only information over a year ago. If it doesn't matter what any official source says, then let's just change everything as we see fit and screw with the official sources. :D

      Why are the episodes supposed to be using the "official" name, but not every other term?

      Every other article on this wiki uses the official terms that are given by their respective source (all characters and chapters get their information from the databook, manga and anime (with the db and manga being above the anime)). Why do episode articles suddenly get to be the ONLY thing on this wiki which ISN'T using its officially named term given by the official sources?

      Are you suggesting that Naruto Uzumaki is not an official term? Are you suggesting that Kurama is not called Kurama? This is getting to the point of utter stupidity with the logic being used to oppose this.

        Loading editor
    • So translating from the Japanese manga is okay, because it's more official than the English manga. But translating from the Japanese anime is not okay, because another company - that is in no way connected to this wiki - also translates them, but since they get paid for it, it's more official than the Japanese original?

      I'm not suggesting anything. But it's obvious that the episode titles are often plain wrong, as Snapper pointed out.

      If someone puts in a wrong translation, I'm going to correct it, obviously. But generally, fan translations are allowed. Or why do you think Suki-senpai, Suzakun and me are labeled translators?

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: But it's obvious that the episode titles are often plain wrong, as Snapper pointed out.

      No, they're not. They're wrong on the wiki, but the titles given in many officially stated medium are not wrong, unless you can link me official statements from the animators that back up your claim. The wiki is deciding they are wrong for its own random reasoning, when they're exactly what the animators wanted them to be named as. Just like how Battle of Valley of Clouds and Lightning isn't an official title (which I've explained by listing multiple sources using the correct title).

      If someone comes onto this wiki, searches the "Battle of Unraikyo" page and sees that the page has been deleted, they're just going to think that this wiki doesn't cover all of the content. Sure there's a "moved page" notice, but not everyone reads those.

      As for your point about translations, read the Naming policy. We use the Revised Hepburn Romanization and not Wapuro, which is why the english manga translations provided by Viz are not used and that any translations using hepburn romanization are the most official.

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: I don't know how you can even considering defending that Battle of Valley of Clouds and Lightning is, in any way, an official anime episode title, because it is blatantly not.

      I'm not calling the title official, I'm merely observing that the wiki has Valley of Clouds and Lightning for the location and The Battle at the Valley of Clouds and Lightning!! for the chapter, but you're proposing Battle of Unraikyo for the episode. You should want consistency, especially since the location and chapter also don't use Viz's translation.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that anyone who watches the anime is not going to use any of these sources whatsoever and will just assume the wiki is "correct" when it comes to episode titles?

      I think readers are more likely to identify episodes by their number, not their title. They're therefore unlikely to care how the episode's title is translated.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: All the episode title changes you made were unnecessary as you chose to ignore officially stated titles in favour of supposed "literal" translations with no redirects.

      I left the redirects intact when I did the page moves. Omnibender's the one who deleted them.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: it's just your sarcastic opinion

      I'm concerned you don't know what sarcasm is.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: You didn't seem to care when DuelMaster93 updated the anime filler arc pages to use the officially given titles provided by Viz, so why do you even care about the anime episodes themselves following the exact same format?

      Most of his page moves were to the literal translation, not Viz's. The one time he moved to Viz's translation, I seemingly opposed it.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: Why do episode articles suddenly get to be the ONLY thing on this wiki which ISN'T using its officially named term given by the official sources?

      Most of the wiki's articles don't use the "official" names, as I pointed out. Which means the real question is, "Why do episode articles suddenly get to be the ONLY thing on this wiki which IS using its officially named term given by the official sources?"

      SuperSajuuk wrote: If someone comes onto this wiki, searches the "Battle of Unraikyo" page and sees that the page has been deleted, they're just going to think that this wiki doesn't cover all of the content. Sure there's a "moved page" notice, but not everyone reads those.

      You could remake the redirects, thus allowing people to find what they're looking for. Or is that too easy?

      SuperSajuuk wrote: As for your point about translations, read the Naming policy. We use the Revised Hepburn Romanization and not Wapuro, which is why the english manga translations provided by Viz are not used and that any translations using hepburn romanization are the most official.

      You act as though what Viz does with the manga and what it does with the anime are entirely different, which they aren't: the anime, like the manga, doesn't use macrons; the anime, like the manga, uses "style" instead of "release"; the anime, like the manga, calls him "Ohnoki"; etc.

        Loading editor
    • BerserkerPhantom
      BerserkerPhantom removed this reply because:
      ah.. Better not do it >.
      19:18, April 8, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • SuperSajuuk wrote:

      No, they're not.

      Yes, they are. The English VIZ translations of the Japanese episodes are often wrong. They do not convey the same meaning as the Japanese original, whereas our translations do.

      SuperSajuuk wrote:

      As for your point about translations, read the Naming policy. We use the Revised Hepburn Romanization and not Wapuro, which is why the english manga translations provided by Viz are not used and that any translations using hepburn romanization are the most official.

      The romanization of Japanese has nothing to do with its translation.

        Loading editor
    • Official name is better.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose

      There's nothing wrong with the current format. We've relied on direct translations which we've found to often be accurate more times than not. I'm utterly against "westernising" the wikia because of perceived inconveniences.

        Loading editor
    • Terceiro Kazekage wrote: Official name is better.

      So you agree the official names are better, yet you oppose a suggestion designed to restore the official names? That makes little to no sense at all.

        Loading editor
    • Cerez365 wrote: What's more pressing is who let Speysider back into the wiki, gave him rights AGAIN, only for him to cause contention. Will Sisyphus never learn?

      While I do agree that the public "goodbye thread" was ... pathetic (and hypocritical), you should probably take this to a private conversation, so the thread wouldn't derail from its intended topic. Just a suggestion tho :) Let's all play nice :p

        Loading editor
    • Cerez365 should really take the personal comments off the wiki. I'm not going to ignore the fact he's written multiple, veiled harassment comments in the last few months about me, they're completely unnecessary and unwanted.

      I have every right to be on this wiki since I'm not blocked, because I've not broken any policies whatsoever since I returned here. And whether I have rollback rights is immaterial, considering how inactive most of our rollbacks actually are.

      I'm allowed the right to leave a wiki and come back to it after time has passed. Clearly Cerez365 is incapable of leaving the past "in the past" and just wants to write abuse about me at every chance he is able to get.

      And now the thread is derailed. Well done everyone. Why am I not surprised in the slightest? :3

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: And now the thread is derailed. Well done everyone. Why am I not surprised in the slightest? :3

      You can always be the bigger man, but clearly, from experience, that's never an option for you.

      Well anyways, back to the topic. Completely agree with Cerez's message; "We've relied on direct translations which we've found to often be accurate more times than not." If we're using translations for all the content on the wiki, why should we exclude something? You can always just create redirects (of Crunchyroll names) for convenience, if that's what's bothering you.

        Loading editor
    • Because I'm sure the above was nothing more than riveting discussion being shared among the common folk, can anyone explain to me why exactly this is a discussion to be had again?

      I thought everything was quite peachy that we had different naming conventions for the media, as it adequately helped prevent multiple articles being named the same.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose — The current names are better, because they're the literal translation — in my opinion, it's more official than Viz's names...

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: I thought everything was quite peachy that we had different naming conventions for the media, as it adequately helped prevent multiple articles being named the same.

      Just a few users posted in the previous consensus discussion. The opinions of a large number of users was not obtained and the decision had been taken months after the previous thread had died out, meaning that opinions could have changed since then.

        Loading editor
    • Speysider- I think I'm tired of saying it now: I don't like you, and I don't trust you in the slightest. Everything that you do has ulterior motives, but I'm sure you just want to make the wikia a better place so my apologies guys - lets get back on track with the discussion at hand.

        Loading editor
    • (See Below)

      With a slight lean towards Support.

      Mainly because, by our current, almost assbackwards naming conventions, having the episodes use the official Viz names allowed us to not have a disc page for chapters and manga. That way, we could avoid situations like "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Chapter 1)", "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Episode 1)" and instead have "Naruto Uzumaki!!!" [which is the manga chapter] and "Here comes Naruto" [which is the episode].

      And those are my thoughts, take from them what you will.

      EDIT: And let's be absolutely clear, I am only referring to the title of episodes. Let's not get absolutely crazy with this for once please.

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: EDIT: And let's be absolutely clear, I am only referring to the title of episodes. Let's not get absolutely crazy with this for once please.

      This proposal was only ever about the episode titles, it was never about the wider wiki because I would certainly oppose changing every single page to use viz's translations.

      But somehow, a few users felt like bringing up the whole wiki for no reason at all when it wasn't even proposed in the first place, episode titles were the only intention behind this thread. I clarified this in another post, but apparently my post went ignored by the majority of complainers. :p

        Loading editor
    • Slippery slopes are not uncommon here. Never forget this fact.

        Loading editor
    • Can everyone try to keep this discussion on track and not intentionally cause drama by calling users names, other than there current one. Thanks.

        Loading editor
    • I still haven't gotten my answers, though.

        Loading editor
    • What where your questions again?

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: But the episode titles aren't the only thing that we translate for ourselves. So when you propose to use the VIZ titles, it automatically extends to everything else (as listed above). Or is there a specific reason we should use VIZ' translations of episode titles, but not of virtually every other term? Especially considering we're not a VIZ wiki, but a fan wiki, so there's nothing wrong with fan translations, anyways.

      SuperSajuuk wrote:They're supposed to be using the official name

      And who even said that? Why are the episodes supposed to be using the "official" name, but not every other term? With the very same reasoning you're using, I could open a thread for chakra natures, one for character names and one for all the other terms and there would be no one stopping me.

      Again: This is not a VIZ wiki. There's no one telling us to use VIZ titles.

      Basically, this.

        Loading editor
    • As I read along the thread, it seems there is mix feelings on what is considered to be "official". There are different translations to episodes (and general other things). The problem is clear is that. So to settle this argument here, we need to settle what we claim to be "more official" than the other.

      @Sajuuk And don't take this the wrong way Sajuuk, but it seems a bit odd of you to desperately want to change our "fan translations" when a while back you were against changing our arc names to Kishi's who's waaaay more official than anything else.

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: As I read along the thread, it seems there is mix feelings on what is considered to be "official". There are different translations to episodes (and general other things). The problem is clear is that. So to settle this argument here, we need to settle what we claim to be "more official" than the other.

      @Sajuuk And don't take this the wrong way Sajuuk, but it seems a bit odd of you to desperately want to change our "fan translations" when a while back you were against changing our arc names to Kishi's who's waaaay more official than anything else.

      What exactly is Sajuuk's history?

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: Mainly because, by our current, almost assbackwards naming conventions, having the episodes use the official Viz names allowed us to not have a disc page for chapters and manga. That way, we could avoid situations like "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Chapter 1)", "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Episode 1)" and instead have "Naruto Uzumaki!!!" [which is the manga chapter] and "Here comes Naruto" [which is the episode].

      Which I think is a very fair goal. There are only two shortcomings, both of them mild:

      1. Episodes that are named after a chapter end up having a different name than that chapter, ie. "Those Who Dance in the Shadows" (episode) and "The Invisible Dancers" (chapter). The fact that the Japanese is the same was not always obvious and/or noted in either or both articles, and in fact I think this issue still lingers in some cases.
      2. Rigidly following Viz's translations created some situations where articles were blatantly contrary to every other article on the wiki. "Killer Bee and Motoi" (episode) differs from "Killer B and Motoi" (chapter) differs from "Killer B" (character). Are Viz's translations really so important as to be worth having different standards than the rest of the wiki?

      I feel it's worth noting that most episode articles do still use Viz's translation. I didn't want to ask Seelentau to translate 500+ episode titles that would, in all likelihood, not significantly differ from what Viz used, so only those episodes that didn't match what was done elsewhere on the wiki ("Squad 7" → "Team 7", "Wind Style: Rasen Shuriken!" → "Wind Release: Rasenshuriken!", "Byakugan vs. Shadow Clone Jutsu!" → "Byakugan vs. Shadow Clone Technique!") were moved.

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: As I read along the thread, it seems there is mix feelings on what is considered to be "official". There are different translations to episodes (and general other things). The problem is clear is that. So to settle this argument here, we need to settle what we claim to be "more official" than the other.

      As I said before, it depends on what kind of wiki we consider ourselves as. Are we a wiki that covers the English release of Naruto, or are we a wiki that covers the Japanese release of Naruto, the manga in general, so to speak? Are our visitors from countries where VIZ releases the manga or are they from all over the world? Do we use VIZ translations anywhere else? If not, why not? ^And why would we use them for episodes and episodes only? VIZ also translates everything else, why not use their translations for everything else as well? Are their episode titles special? Plus, is it more important to use official English titles than to use fan-translated correct titles? Because let me tell you this; カカシ暗部篇~闇を生きる忍 does not translate to Kakashi: Shadow of the ANBU Black Ops. So if we would use the latter, we wouldn't even use a translation, but an entirely made up name which ignores the Japanese original. Are we fine with ignoring the original manga for the sake of using official English titles? Which brings us back to ^.

        Loading editor
    • Snapper2 wrote:

      TheUltimate3 wrote: Mainly because, by our current, almost assbackwards naming conventions, having the episodes use the official Viz names allowed us to not have a disc page for chapters and manga. That way, we could avoid situations like "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Chapter 1)", "Naruto Uzumaki!!! (Episode 1)" and instead have "Naruto Uzumaki!!!" [which is the manga chapter] and "Here comes Naruto" [which is the episode].

      Which I think is a very fair goal. There are only two shortcomings, both of them mild:

      1. Episodes that are named after a chapter end up having a different name than that chapter, ie. "Those Who Dance in the Shadows" (episode) and "The Invisible Dancers" (chapter). The fact that the Japanese is the same was not always obvious and/or noted in either or both articles, and in fact I think this issue still lingers in some cases.
      2. Rigidly following Viz's translations created some situations where articles were blatantly contrary to every other article on the wiki. "Killer Bee and Motoi" (episode) differs from "Killer B and Motoi" (chapter) differs from "Killer B" (character). Are Viz's translations really so important as to be worth having different standards than the rest of the wiki?

      I feel it's worth noting that most episode articles do still use Viz's translation. I didn't want to ask Seelentau to translate 500+ episode titles that would, in all likelihood, not significantly differ from what Viz used, so only those episodes that didn't match what was done elsewhere on the wiki ("Squad 7" → "Team 7", "Wind Style: Rasen Shuriken!" → "Wind Release: Rasenshuriken!", "Byakugan vs. Shadow Clone Jutsu!" → "Byakugan vs. Shadow Clone Technique!") were moved.

      Quite the valid point actually.

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: @Sajuuk And don't take this the wrong way Sajuuk, but it seems a bit odd of you to desperately want to change our "fan translations" when a while back you were against changing our arc names to Kishi's who's waaaay more official than anything else.

      Because I didn't feel they were necessary. I still feel they're not necessary, but I'm not arguing that point because it will lead nowhere other than another flame war. And I've already stated my opinion on what the official titles are for the episodes, those given by a wide range of other sources.

      As for what wiki we are, this is a wiki that covers all official media related to Naruto. It does not matter what format we use to display this data, but the wiki has used fan translations of the manga ever since it was created. It could have chosen to use Viz translations, but since they use the wrong romanization standard, they were not used for translation info. However, the wiki has always used the official English title given to anime episodes, until recently when it was unilaterally decided to change them for no reason.

      If a large portion of episode articles already use Viz's translation, why do a small portion of episode articles get a free pass not to use Viz's translation? That makes little sense and isn't consistent.

        Loading editor
    • There is no wrong romanization standard. Ohnoki is as valid as Ōnoki.

      The reason for the change is to make them more similar to the wiki's standards.

      I say either we follow VIZ' translations in every aspect, or we continue to do our own thing.

        Loading editor
    • Here's some more articles with the same Japanese but different article titles:

      Chapter Episode
      Breakthrough An Opening
      I'm Watching You I'm Always Watching
      The Connected Ones The Ties That Bind
      The Ones Who Know Everything The All-Knowing
      The Real Dream My True Dream
      What Can Fill a Hole Something to Fill the Hole
      A New Three-Way Deadlock The New Three-Way Deadlock
      Dream World World of Dreams
      I Will Love You Forever I Will Love You Always
      Will of Stone A Will of Stone
      The Five Kage Gathered…!! The Five Kage Assemble
      Contradiction Paradox
      The Seal of Reconciliation Unison Sign

      In some cases the difference is insignificant ("The X" v "A X"). In some cases the different translations result in slightly different meanings ("The Real Dream" v "My True Dream"). In some cases the difference of translation is noted by way of {{looking for}}. In one case the episode title is contrary to the rest of the wiki: "Unison Sign" contradicts every occurrence of "hand seal".

      I'm of the opinion that, when the Japanese is the same, the English should match. But that doesn't necessarily mean Viz's title shouldn't be used. If Seelentau or another translator can comfortably say that Viz's translation is faithful to the Japanese - even if it's not the exact translation they would use - then using Viz's for both chapter and episode might be a reasonable compromise.

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote:Because let me tell you this; カカシ暗部篇~闇を生きる忍 does not translate to Kakashi: Shadow of the ANBU Black Ops.

      ^^

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: There is no wrong romanization standard. Ohnoki is as valid as Ōnoki.

      The reason for the change is to make them more similar to the wiki's standards.

      I say either we follow VIZ' translations in every aspect, or we continue to do our own thing.

      What about Gaara? Shouldn't it be Ga-ra?


      Sorry, I don't know how to do the line-over-the-letter thing.

        Loading editor
    • Which is a translation you're not comfortable with and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. But "Dream World" v "World of Dreams"? The Viz translation is actually closer to how most translations on the wiki are done, as in "Land of Fire" instead of "Fire Land" or "Sword of Totsuka" instead of "Totsuka Sword".

        Loading editor
    • In the same vein lie technique names that are X no Jutsu. We translate them as X Technique, whereas I translated them as Technique of X for the German wiki back in the day. Both are equally fine, but both have nothing to do with VIZ.

      And no, no makron above Gaara's a. Look at his trivia for that. :P

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: In the same vein lie technique names that are X no Jutsu. We translate them as X Technique, whereas I translated them as Technique of X for the German wiki back in the day. Both are equally fine, but both have nothing to do with VIZ.

      If a given translation by Viz is equally fine, perhaps throw them a bone and let their translation stand in those cases in order to satisfy whichever users are concerned about officialisms.

      It's an idea is all. I have neither the interest nor user rights to do any actual page moves, so prefer what you will.

        Loading editor
    • My point is that we're not using a specific translation because VIZ uses them, but because it's a good translation. As already said multiple times, the episode titles of VIZ are mostly incomplete or simply bad translations. Hence why I oppose using them.

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: My point is that we're not using a specific translation because VIZ uses them, but because it's a good translation. As already said multiple times, the episode titles of VIZ are mostly incomplete or simply bad translations. Hence why I oppose using them.

      I understand that. But Viz will, from time to time, come up with a good translation. Opposing their one good translation on the grounds that they have multiple bad translations is not necessarily the most productive course. The wiki owes nothing to Viz and its translations, true, but the wiki also does not need to dig in its heels against Viz.

      You are the translator. If you think it is better that the wiki say $ 1 + 1 = 2 $ rather than $ 2 = 1 + 1 $, then I trust your judgment.

        Loading editor
    •  Support

        Loading editor
    • I'm not trying to rebel against them or anything. :D My way of thinking is just I translate something => it's (usually) usable => VIZ has the same translation? => Good for them", whereas Sajuuk's way of thinking apparently looks like VIZ has a good translation? => We use it => Seelentau translates it differently? => Who cares, VIZ is main or so.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think so, I think Sajuuk just wants to make it more Official.

        Loading editor
    • But VIZ isn't the one-above-all. They release the anime for the American market, nothing else. That doesn't make their translations more correct. Do you want correct titles or "official" titles?

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: But VIZ isn't the one-above-all. They release the anime for the American market, nothing else. That doesn't make their translations more correct. Do you want correct titles or "official" titles?

      Official overrides anything else. If the mangaka were to name every single chapter in English, we would use them regardless of "fan translations". The same applies to anime episodes. Need I remind you that it's not just Viz who market the series, but Crunchyroll is co-owned by TV-Tokyo (interestingly, the official Japanese station to transmit the series) and Crunchyroll provides the anime to a large number of countries that would otherwise not get broadcasting rights.

      It's thanks to that partnership and Crunchyroll that I can legally watch the anime when it releases 30-60 minutes after the transmission in Japan. Otherwise, I would be 100% reliant on a DVD for the anime and would be currently miles behind everyone else, just like a lot of people would be in the world. When an official source exists, we use it, regardless of what the wiki thinks about it. You did this with the databook arc titles, why are you suddenly so interested in not following official material when it comes to the anime?

      It's in the policy that we use official titles. Being "more correct" does not overrule "official titles". Fan translations, for that matter, don't overrule "official titles" either.

      Also, Viz do not release for "just the American market". They distribute to a large number of markets, including the UK, Ireland, South Africa, India and the Philippines. Hell they even have a "European" subdivision which licenses their material in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. If you really think all of these countries are using a bogus translation, go and write to Viz Media's office and complain about their translations.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, I did it with the databooks arc titles: I translated the official arc titles from Japanese to English and we use them.
      And I would prefer to do it with the episode titles: To translate the official episode titles from Japanese to English and use them.

      As I said before, our titles aren't "more correct", they are correct, whereas VIZ titles often are wrong (example above).

      And again, give me one reason why the whole topic wouldn't logically extend to every term that's translated differently by VIZ? Every argument made pro your side can be made for Ohnoki, Fire Style and so on.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose

      @Snapper2 and @Seelentau have already said enough.

        Loading editor
    •  Support

        Loading editor
    • I do want to point out that Viz translations aren't -wrong- as they are official. They are changed yes, but it is pure hubris on our wiki to condemn them as wrong.

      That said, I have decided; after further thought I choose to  Oppose — , for consistencies sake. Situations like "Killer B and Motoi" and "Killer Bee and Motoi" do in fact weigh heavily on my mind and if this makes things more uniform, I say use the direct translations.

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: for consistencies sake. Situations like "Killer B and Motoi" and "Killer Bee and Motoi" do in fact weigh heavily on my mind and if this makes things more uniform, I say use the direct translations.

      And something like Battle of Valley of Clouds and Lightning would be consistent with what?

      I'd concede that there's no difference between "Killer B and Motoi" and "Killer Bee and Motoi" (and we could get away with just that one, as long as a redirect exists for the official title), but there's a lot of pages like the one I linked that are just plainly too different to be considered "official" and there's no way that pages like this could be found by anyone (unless you knew the title).

      The comments by some that suggests the official titles are wrong is pure idiocy however, like you said.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose — Accuracy matters.

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: I do want to point out that Viz translations aren't -wrong- as they are official. They are changed yes, but it is pure hubris on our wiki to condemn them as wrong.

      What? :D So if Kishimoto lets Sasuke say "My left eye is the Rinnegan" and for some reason, VIZ translates it as "My right eye is the Sharingan", the translation is magically correct, even though Sasuke never said that?

      I want the wiki to be as true to the Japanese original as possible. That's why I learned Japanese and that's why I'm a sysop here. Most of those, if not all, discussing here have no experience as translators. And yet you want to change something that isn't broken. I'm sorry, but this is getting out of hand. If you don't even understand why a VIZ translation isn't necessarily correct just because it's by VIZ, I can't help you.

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose — consistency or no.

        Loading editor
    • Sarutobii2
      Sarutobii2 removed this reply because:
      Off Topic
      00:35, April 11, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Seelentau wrote: What? :D So if Kishimoto lets Sasuke say "My left eye is the Rinnegan" and for some reason, VIZ translates it as "My right eye is the Sharingan", the translation is magically correct, even though Sasuke never said that?

      I want the wiki to be as true to the Japanese original as possible. That's why I learned Japanese and that's why I'm a sysop here. Most of those, if not all, discussing here have no experience as translators. And yet you want to change something that isn't broken. I'm sorry, but this is getting out of hand. If you don't even understand why a VIZ translation isn't necessarily correct just because it's by VIZ, I can't help you.

      My friend, I care very little on the why you went and learned Japanese, I'm just saying it is excessive hubris on a fan made wiki part to say official anything is wrong. If Kishimoto was to get fired tomorrow and Shueisha got a new author to start Naruto up again and decided Naruto was now a drag queen name Shaquesha Taytay no amount of us crying will change the fact that Naruto is now Shaquesha Taytay.

      That said, as I already stated, I am for using the Japanese translations to remain consistent with the rest of our title translations.

      EDIT: In unrelated news, in any potential argument in the future, I will now try my very hardest to somehow add Shaquesha Taytay.

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: If Kishimoto was to get fired tomorrow and Shueisha got a new author to start Naruto up again and decided Naruto was now a drag queen name Shaquesha Taytay no amount of us crying will change the fact that Naruto is now Shaquesha Taytay.

      This had me dying laughing because I could believe this with all his female transformations lol

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: That said, as I already stated, I am for using the Japanese translations to remain consistent with the rest of our title translations.

      All of the episodes, barring the ones that were changed, use the Viz translation. If all of the episode pages are not using the official translation, then that is a problem.

      In unrelated news, why are so many people obsessed with thread derailment? Seriously, it's just ridiculous how many off-topic, nonsense comments have been posted so far in this discussion.

        Loading editor
    • Sarutobii2
      Sarutobii2 removed this reply because:
      Off Topic
      00:35, April 11, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • SuperSajuuk wrote:

      TheUltimate3 wrote: That said, as I already stated, I am for using the Japanese translations to remain consistent with the rest of our title translations.

      All of the episodes, barring the ones that were changed, use the Viz translation. If all of the episode pages are not using the official translation, then that is a problem.

      Yes and I'm assuming the argument now is to either have the ones that where changed to either to back to using the Viz names or using the Direct Japanese translations yes? If that is in fact the case I'm for all the episode pages to be using direct Japanese translations now.

      Or am I officially super old and have no idea what we are even talking about anymore and did I just appear to create the Cult of Taytay?

        Loading editor
    • TheUltimate3 wrote: If Kishimoto was to get fired tomorrow and Shueisha got a new author to start Naruto up again and decided Naruto was now a drag queen name Shaquesha Taytay no amount of us crying will change the fact that Naruto is now Shaquesha Taytay.

      And that's fine, because it's something entirely different from what we're discussing here. Kishimoto is the original author, Shueisha the original company, they're the ones making the decisions. If VIZ did the same, we would not follow it, would we?

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: And something like Battle of Valley of Clouds and Lightning would be consistent with what?

      It's consistent with the wiki's article on the chapter, "The Battle at the Valley of Clouds and Lightning!!", and the wiki's article on the location, "Valley of Clouds and Lightning". I don't understand why you're having such a difficult time understanding this.

        Loading editor
    • Snapper2 wrote: I don't understand why you're having such a difficult time understanding this.

      The characters in the anime use the word "Unraikyo", both in subbed and dubbed formats. They don't translate the word, so why should we on the episode article? I don't understand why you're failing to understand that official translations always supercedes whatever we want it to be, like it did with the databook arc titles and other such information. Or is it no longer this wiki's desire to follow official sources and instead write and use whatever standards it wants to confuse readers?

      This wiki is not about pleasing "manga obsessive" fans, it's about appeasing the entire Naruto fandom. Consider opening your mind and start realising that the fandom is more than just "we all use the direct translation".

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: The characters in the anime use the word "Unraikyo", both in subbed and dubbed formats. They don't translate the word, so why should we?

      Viz's translation of the manga translates it differently: "Storm Cloud Ravine". How does the wiki decide which official translation is more official?

      SuperSajuuk wrote: I don't understand why you're failing to understand that official always supercedes whatever we want it to be. Or is it no longer this wiki's desire to follow official sources and instead write and use whatever standards it wants to confuse readers?

      This wiki is not about pleasing "manga obsessive" fans, it's about appeasing the entire Naruto fandom. Consider opening your mind and start realising that the fandom is more than just "we all use the direct translation".

      And if that's your opinion, then you are welcome to it. In which case, you should be in favor of these official translations which you earlier argued against:

        Loading editor
    • How often do I have to repeat that the databook arc titles were translated straight from the Japanese source and we're doing the same by translating the episode titles straight from the Japanese source? It's a pro-Japanese titles argument, so why're bringing it up as if it were a contra-argument?

      And if we want to appease the entire Naruto fandom, we can't let ourselves be limited to the faulty translations of VIZ.

        Loading editor
    • Viz's translation of the manga translates it differently: "Storm Cloud Ravine". How does the wiki decide which official translation is more official?

      The manga has nothing to do with this discussion.

      And if that's your opinion, then you are welcome to it. In which case, you should be in favor of these official translations which you earlier argued against:

      And I've already told you many times that this proposal isn't about "every other article on this wiki", so stop bringing it up at every available chance you can get, it's not interesting any more. I've made it clear that I would oppose any proposal that involves updating every wiki article to follow Viz's format, simply because Viz's manga translations are poorer than the translations of the anime that we get directly from Crunchyroll, which is directly co-owned by TV-Tokyo, who have the broadcasting rights to show the anime in Japan. That makes the translation of the episode itself, provided in the episode itself more official.

      Can we move onto the next argument that isn't the same argument that has been done to death in the discussion?

        Loading editor
    • VIZ' anime titles translations are also poorer than those I do... how often do I have to repeat that?

        Loading editor
    • Seelentau wrote: VIZ' anime titles translations are also poorer than those I do... how often do I have to repeat that?

      Are you paid by the animation studio to do translations for the anime? Are your translations used in the episode subtitles of all the Naruto episodes that are released?

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: The manga has nothing to do with this discussion.

      "Storm Cloud Ravine" is an official translation by an officially licensed translator. If you're going to argue in favor of the wiki using official translations instead of fan translations, your argument should ultimately be in favor of using "Storm Cloud Ravine".

      SuperSajuuk wrote: And I've already told you many times that this proposal isn't about "every other article on this wiki", so stop bringing it up at every available chance you can get, it's not interesting any more.

      I keep bringing it up because you keep not understanding your own argument. You want the wiki to use official translations instead of fan translations. But you only want some of the wiki's articles - episode articles - to use official translations. Every other article you want to use fan translations for. You are not consistent with yourself.

      SuperSajuuk wrote: I've made it clear that I would oppose any proposal that involves updating every wiki article to follow Viz's format, simply because Viz's manga translations are poorer than the translations of the anime that we get directly from Crunchyroll, which is directly co-owned by TV-Tokyo, who have the broadcasting rights to show the anime in Japan. That makes the translation of the episode itself, provided in the episode itself more official.

      Here's an episode hosted on Crunchyroll: "Wind Style: Rasen Shuriken!". Notice the "Wind Style" in the title. Per your argument, "Wind Stlye", because it's used by Crunchyroll, is more official than the wiki's "Wind Release". Therefore, in the interest of making the wiki official, the wiki should start using "Wind Style" instead of "Wind Release". Confirm or deny?

        Loading editor
    • No and no. Does that make their translations more correct? Also no. Do I expect you to actually grasp that? No. Do you want to use correct translations? No? Then I'm probably not longer needed, no?

        Loading editor
    •  Oppose — How can they be Official translations when they're wrong? If the translator looked through the source information, to bring up correct translations, where is the argument against that? The only reason I've read countering him is self flagellation, based on an appeal to authority to Viz Media? And the use of bringing up "Ohnoki" is perfectly acceptable, because if that wouldn't be acceptable, why would this be any more acceptable?

      The argument given by the translator is an from an empirical point of view based on correct translations. If ViZ is wrong they're wrong. End of story. You have no point.

        Loading editor
    • I just like to point out that this situation is quite similar to how we deal with databooks. They often contradict things from the manga. Do we allow that the contradicted info override the information given in the manga? Absolutely not. We instead include the contradiction in the trivia of a appropriate page. The databooks are official but can be wrong and has been shown plenty of times to be so.

        Loading editor
    • Pointing out: Apples and oranges, you're debating a subjective view versus and falsely-equating an empirical argument of utilizing correctly translated titles, for incorrect ones merely because of what? Because the appeal to Viz Media? The licensor?


      Also on nonseqitur(I'll bit): yes the Databooks are over the manga because they're specifically created to explain what's not answered in the manga by the author. By that technicality the wiki shouldn't have added the "elements" that weren't included in the manga.

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote:

      And if that's your opinion, then you are welcome to it. In which case, you should be in favor of these official translations which you earlier argued against:

      And I've already told you many times that this proposal isn't about "every other article on this wiki", so stop bringing it up at every available chance you can get, <...>

      The problem is: What stops us from moving onward to that after agreeing to this, using the same "arguments" you have proposed, since they can be applied to the other proposition as well? If we agree to this, we'll have to agree to that as well, since the situations are too much alike to be differentiated.

      Don't get me wrong; I wouldn't mind using viz translations, but for consistency sake, every article would have to adapt to the change, not a selection of information that's preferred by a few users. And it just so happens that I prefer Seele's translations over Viz, so I'd rather have his.

        Loading editor
    • @One Punch

      The databooks are not over the manga. They are supplementary. Also, the databooks for the most part don't answer anything we don't already know from the manga except jutsu ranks, ranges, ages, heights, weights, and blood types, and other obvious things not revealed in the manga.

      As for the natures. Just because a user wasn't seen using it doesn't mean they don't have it so it's not a contradiction. Unlike the databook not listing Danzo as a user of the Summoning Technique despite clearly using it to summon Baku.

        Loading editor
    • ONEY PUNCH wrote: The argument given by the translator is an from an empirical point of view based on correct translations. If ViZ is wrong they're wrong. End of story. You have no point.

      I don't recall Seelentau being paid to translate for this wiki, nor do I recall him being paid to translate the entire series. If some other translator came in and told us that Seelentau was wrong, then we would change the wrong information to match the correct information. No translator has the final authority or word on any subject on a wiki, these are not personal projects where one user gets to control every aspect of the site and dictate how things are formatted, they're community projects and one person's opinion does not overrule the entire wiki.

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: No translator has the final authority or word on any subject on a wiki, these are not personal projects where one user gets to control every aspect of the site and dictate how things are formatted, they're community projects and one person's opinion does not overrule the entire wiki.

      Which is exactly why we are discussing this here, and like it or not, this is so much more than about episodes. It's about direct translations in general on the wiki.

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: Which is exactkt why we are discussing this here because like or not, this is so much more than about episodes. It's about direct translations in general on the wiki.

      No it isn't, if people want to continue derailing this topic (which was titled specifically about episodes) by bringing up the whole wiki, they can do that in another topic.

      For as long as I've been a member of this wiki (ie pre 2014), we have ALWAYS used Viz translations for the episodes but Viz translations have NEVER been used for the wider wiki. I am simply proposing a change to put the episodes back to the way they have ALWAYS been titled.

      If all the members of this wiki want to keep bringing up the whole wiki being affected by this change, do it in another thread, instead of constantly derailing this topic, which is about episodes. I'll spell it: E P I S O D E S. Not. The. Whole. Damn. Wiki.

      Just close this thread and be done with it. Clearly this wiki doesn't care about anyone else. And clearly the forum moderators don't know how to keep a consensus discussion free of spam and off-topic posts.

        Loading editor
    • And because they've always been VIZ titles, they're magically... correct? Better? More appealing to the fans?

        Loading editor
    • I wouldn't call the thread derailing but more of evolving. You should have seen this coming from a mile away when you think about what the topic revolves around - Viz translations vs. Direct translations.

        Loading editor
    • SuperSajuuk wrote: For as long as I've been a member of this wiki (ie pre 2014), we have ALWAYS used Viz translations for the episodes but Viz translations have NEVER been used for the wider wiki. I am simply proposing a change to put the episodes back to the way they have ALWAYS been titled.

      But that was the exact problem that was raised in Thread:186731 and Thread:171204, for which reason the episode articles were moved: 90% of the wiki's article did not use Viz's translations, and only 10% - the episode articles - did. The wiki is now moving towards 0% Viz titles, and you want to go back to 10%. Why? Why is it so important that 10% of the wiki be different from the other 90%?

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: I wouldn't call the thread derailing but more of evolving. You should have seen this coming from a mile away when think about the topic it revolves around - Viz translations vs. Direct translations.

      So posts like all of these are related to the topic of this discussion then? Good lord, I must need an eye check up. /sarcasm

        Loading editor
    • SS: Didn't say that, have a nice day, pal. If translators disagree they argue and i'm better knowing that people would argue over (x) topic. But this is not the point. Based on translators I know for the most part translators won't disagree as much as hyperbolically as you convey, notice that when people learn a language they develop a skill where "I don't know" to communicate? Nothing based on your own confirmation bias, what I find so laughable is that you consider those statements(FYI: that will be posted beneath, because that's what they are "beneath me")-palpably weak statements of being even worthy of being mentioned on such topic, I feel ashamed that you even bothered to bring up falsehoods that figuratively miss the entire point, especially taking into consideration that in your quote that you attempted dig, knowing that I never once conceded to anything you attempted to accuse me of purposely arguing in bad faith.


      I will tell you what you cut out "If Viz is wrong, they're wrong". And if you can prove they're right on the translations (doubt that)-then prove it, instead of attempting to appeal to authority because of your own preconceived biases. Especially when you yourself doesn't even speak, read or decipher the language. That's the point of a translator. And if you don't want to address that, I don't owe you a single reply more.. Have a nice day. Because again, you have absolutely no point.


      List of non-sequiturs/straw-men
      I don't recall Seelentau being paid to translate for this wiki, nor do I recall him being paid to translate the entire series. No translator has the final authority or word on any subject on a wiki, these are not personal projects where one user gets to control every aspect of the site and dictate how things are formatted,they're community projects and one person's opinion does not overrule the entire wiki.

        Loading editor
    • @Sajuuk You know exactly which posts I was talking about so please don't be sarcastic with me. I am being neutral and both sides make good arguments, I'm simply adding interesting info that should be taken into account.

      @One Punch I don't know if you are directing that statement at me but I'm not being bias. Okay, and we aren't paid either, but do we record the info of the series on the wiki? Yes. Smh

        Loading editor
    • Rachin123 wrote: @Sajuuk You know exactly which posts I was talking about so please don't be sarcastic with me. I am being neutral and both sides make good arguments, I'm simply adding interesting info that should be taken into account.

      @One Punch I don't know if you are directing that statement at me but I'm not being bias. Okay, and we aren't paid either, but do we record the info of the series on the wiki? Yes. Smh

      Nope. Not you, apologies if you thought otherwise.

      "Okay, and we aren't paid either, but do we record the info of the series on the wiki? Yes. Smh"

      Who is talking about being paid, you need to redirrect that Sajuuk. Absolutely no one is talking about monetary issues. Like what relevancy does that have?

        Loading editor
    • I don't know how to put this correctly. I generally am in favour of letting the wiki follow anything that could be considered "official". But since all these "official" translations all rub me in the wrong way a lot, I personally don't want to see them used here. I simply dislike their habit of translating things wrongly or alter the original meaning for whatever reason. I mean, official or not, if it's not close to the original, what's the point? They had one job, dammit.

      Call me nitpicky or biased, but since I too study Japanese, I have a huge grudge towards guys who should do it correctly, but don't.

      The point Snapper2 and Seelentau are defending also appeals to me. If we change one part of the wiki under a certain guideline and could do so with other aspects as well but don't because it's unrelated to the first part, it looks random and arbitrary. I firmly believe that consistency is one things that makes a place like this sorted and well-organised and I don't agree with anything that might change this. So all in all, I must say I  Oppose — .

        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.