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  • This episode was an interesting one in my opinion, however, I'm sure there is a Pierrot mistake somewhere. Regardless, I was genuinely gripped by the end of the episode. So, does anyone else find Hagoromo having Sharingan ridiculous? I already see how it makes sense, but I always thought that the Sharigan was a devolution of the Rinnegan in nature.

    How would you rate Episode 461?
     
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    11
     
    28
     
    101
     

    The poll was created at 12:04 on May 19, 2016, and so far 147 people voted.

    As always, no illegal links and/or asking about where to watch the episode!

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    • This episode will shut the people up who jumped the gun on calling the previous episode a contradiction of the manga because everyone was caught in IT and after it worshipped her as a goddess, which this episode gave an explanation for. 5/5

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    • Awesome episode, but I think that Hagoromo does not have Byakugan, his white eyes are more like natural. Also, I'm very suprised that Hagoromo has Sharingan.

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    • So, Kaguya's IT did affect the whole world... Which means Gamamaru shouldn't be even talking with Hagoromo and Hamura.

      Also, Hagoromo getting Sharingan... I'm pretty iffy about it.

      Then again, anime-only stuff(fillers and "extensions" of scenes from manga) are about as canon as Rock Lee-spinoff, so not really surprised Studio Pierrot does something like this...

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    • I actually wouldn't be surprised if Hagoromo only gets the Rinnegan from either messing with the tree, or after he and Hamura seal Kaguya's power inside him.

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    • DXAshram wrote: I actually wouldn't be surprised if Hagoromo only gets the Rinnegan from either messing with the tree, or after he and Hamura seal Kaguya's power inside him.

      In the manga, he had the Rinnegan during the Ten-Tails' sealing.

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    • DXAshram wrote: I actually wouldn't be surprised if Hagoromo only gets the Rinnegan from either messing with the tree, or after he and Hamura seal Kaguya's power inside him.

      did u even watch the preview? He has the Rinnegan while confronting Kaguya

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    • Chrillbill wrote: This episode will shut the people up who jumped the gun on calling the previous episode a contradiction of the manga because everyone was caught in IT and after it worshipped her as a goddess, which this episode gave an explanation for. 5/5

      Theres still contradictions yet to have been corrected, so its not like this is entirely consistent. You are also jumping the gun a little. We truly need to wait until the end of this mini-arc to judge its consistency, but it could go either way. (Also, thank you Sarutobi for fixing up my post)

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    • Haven´t seen the episode yet but, reading this few comments already makes me doubt about the quality of the episode (Hagoromo with a Sharingan, WTF!. Pierrot is underselling Hamura). Will come back later to post my thoughts.

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    • Hagoromo having the Sharingan first is logical. his mother has the Rinne Sharingan which is a superior sharingan but it doesn't have the same power as the Rinnegan. its logical that he would have the sharingan first. she has a single Rinne Sharingan he inherited the Sharingan but over both eyes then after learning sage mode his eyes evolved into the Rinnegan this is pretty logical

      also it seems that the toads live in an underground cave system similar to how the otsutsuki lived on the moon.

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    • @Supper Sasuke it make sense that he has it since sharingan becomes a rinnegan plus i think hes byakugan couldnt activate becuz he was always depending on hamura for the most part, ootsutsukis are born with them. One more thing if your not convinced because of lack of canonicity,remember kaguya is a canon ootsutsuki they naturally have byakugans. She got the rinne-sharingan after consumption of the divine fruit so it makes it from kaguya to him in this filler.

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    • An Advocate for Manga wrote:

      Theres still contradictions yet to have been corrected, so its not like this is entirely consistent. You are also jumping the gun a little. We truly need to wait until the end of this mini-arc to judge its consistency, but it could go either way. (Also, thank you Sarutobi for fixing up my post)

      I'm not saying it's all 100% consistent, all I said was they explained what happened to the people after they got caught by IT.

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    • I guess Pierrot thought that even Hagoromo needed to go through the trauma of losing someone to awaken the Sharingan before gaining the Rinnegan.

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    • Just so I'm aware, Hagoromo isn't listed as "Byakugan (Anime Only)" despite the eyes because he didn't active it, correct?

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    • TheUltimate3 wrote: Just so I'm aware, Hagoromo isn't listed as "Byakugan (Anime Only)" despite the eyes because he didn't active it, correct?

      Yes. We can not claim with certainty that Hagoromo has Byakugan, since he's not activated Byakugan in episode.

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    • But why is the Sharingan listed as a Kekkei Genkai and not as a Kekkei Mora (like his Rinnegan)?

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    • Chrillbill wrote: I'm not saying it's all 100% consistent, all I said was they explained what happened to the people after they got caught by IT.

      Well that wasn't the only thing that "those people" regarded as contradicting to the manga, yet it seemed like you made it out to be with the way it was phrased. There were 3 or 4 issues with consistency.

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    • Lulcielid wrote: But why is the Sharingan listed as a Kekkei Genkai and not as a Kekkei Mora (like his Rinnegan)?

      Because Hagoromo's Rinnegan serve as his third eye, similarly as Kaguya's Rinne Sharingan. Hagoromo awaken Sharingan in both eyes, which would mean that Sharingan is his Kekkei Genkai (dojutsu).

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    • they were really underrating hamura but idk why everyone says its messed up for hagoromo to have sharingan when sharingan is the ground work for the rinnegan but this now makes me wander will he have mangekyou sharingan and have a susanooif there doing the sharingan thing logically the m sharingan does come next then he could unlock the rinnegan since he is the first senju/uchiha so it would be next logically

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    • This Ritual thing in the episode implies that the people wrapped in the Shinju´s roots die during the Chakra sapping and by extention dead bodies could theoretically turn into (alived) white zetsu(?).

      The manga (at least to my interpretation) implied that people turn into White Zetsus while they remain alive (albeit uncouncious).

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    • Lulcielid wrote: This Ritual thing in the episode implies that the people wrapped in the Shinju´s roots die during the Chakra sapping and by extention dead bodies could theoretically turn into (alived) white zetsu(?).

      The manga (at least to my interpretation) implied that people turn into White Zetsus while they remain alive (albeit uncouncious).

      maybe they were in the process before they pulled her out so that might mean if they keep fighting for a day everyone in the things will die or 6hrs don't really know the time between hagoromo found his girlfriend and when she went there

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    • anyone else get the feelin tht the girl Haori is the mother of Indra and Asura and tht Hagoromo revives her later with rinne rebirth?

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    • Deeinfernodestroyer wrote: anyone else get the feelin tht the girl Haori is the mother of Indra and Asura and tht Hagoromo revives her later with rinne rebirth?

      yep

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    • Comic rider wrote:

      Deeinfernodestroyer wrote: anyone else get the feelin tht the girl Haori is the mother of Indra and Asura and tht Hagoromo revives her later with rinne rebirth?

      yep

      sweet i'm not alone on tht theory :)

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    • At this rate, wouldn't be surprised if Hagoromo awakens the Rinne Sharingan next episode.

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    • Sarutobii2 wrote: At this rate, wouldn't be surprised if Hagoromo awakens the Rinne Sharingan next episode.

      but hagoromo never had the rinnesharingan

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    • -_-

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    • It pains me that we have to cover this bullshit.

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    • I just like how they showed genuine emotion, like with Gamamaru (Who is also dat boi!!!!!). Proving, like their mother, they were "humans" too.

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    • I really hate you people's negativity... filler, non-canon, bullshit etc. It actually makes sense, explanations:

      • Gamamaru wasn't caught in Infinite Tsukuyomi because as he said, toads rarely ever dream.
      • Indra was said to have inherited his father's eyes if one considers Hagoromo to have had the Sharingan, it makes more sense and is literal.
      • If Hagoromo's Sharingan really evolves into the Rinnegan in the next episode thanks to Natural Energy, then it would make perfect sense, since Indra was stated to have his father's eyes (Sharingan) while Asura his father's body (Sage power) and Asura has long been implied and hypothesized by the fandom to have been a Sage... so if Sharingan + Sage power = Rinnegan, then Indra's chakra + Asura's chakra = Rinnegan, makes sense, doesn't it?

      Good job Pierrot :)

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    • Well, I have to agree, they did a good job. They took Kishimoto's inability to create a consistent background story and went one step further. It is actually quite impressive to come up with more bullshit than the author himself. I honestly thought that was impossible to top. But Pierrot did it.

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    • No this shit is definitely filler but it's really good filler tho

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    • Come on, if you don't enjoy the lore/story anymore and have just negative things to say about it, why stick around? I thought we were fans not haters.

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    • Seelentau wrote: Well, I have to agree, they did a good job. They took Kishimoto's inability to create a consistent background story and went one step further. It is actually quite impressive to come up with more bullshit than the author himself. I honestly thought that was impossible to top. But Pierrot did it.

      why so mad at the back stories?

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    • It's so weird. Kishimoto and the anime team present us a story full of plotholes and inconsistencies but I'm not allowed to be negative about it? Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love and accept everything. It means that you know when something is good and when something is shit. And this filler isn't shit. It's shit that was shat on. The least they could've done was animate the shit Kishimoto presented them. But no, they had to take it one step further and shit on that shit. Now we not only have an already half-assed manga background, but also an anime background that doesn't even match the inconsistent manga background.

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    • Seelentau wrote: It's so weird. Kishimoto and the anime team present us a story full of plotholes and inconsistencies but I'm not allowed to be negative about it? Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love and accept everything. It means that you know when something is good and when something is shit. And this filler isn't shit. It's shit that was shat on. The least they could've done was animate the shit Kishimoto presented them. But no, they had to take it one step further and shit on that shit. Now we not only have an already half-assed manga background, but also an anime background that doesn't even match the inconsistent manga background.

      This is true honestly the whole Kaguya thing is pretty ridiculous and inconsistent Kishi should've just stuck with the sage of six paths thing instead of making retcons but meh I'm one of those ppl that also thought the pain arc would've made a much better conclusion before all this ootsusukis bs came to be

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    • Really I would love the story that is more clear with logic, without any inconsistencies. In the manga there were lot of inconsistencies like the problem with how the moon was formed? how Kaguya sealed everyone without the moon? how Hagoromo got Rinnegan? I think there are many people like me who want little explanation, thank you Pierrot, I can now die in peace if I get to know all these.

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    • So many haters here, lol. Even though Pierrot Studios have explained some of the stuff over which guys were arguing, you still have problems with the anime. Even though the current flashback isn't finished, we have yet to see the manner in which Hagoromo will obtain the Rinnegan. The latest episode made it clear that Hagoromo first obtained the Sharingan(a common topic of debate here). I suggest we all wait to see the next few episodes and then jump to conclusions.

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    • Seelentau wrote: It's so weird. Kishimoto and the anime team present us a story full of plotholes and inconsistencies but I'm not allowed to be negative about it? Being a fan doesn't mean that you have to love and accept everything. It means that you know when something is good and when something is shit. And this filler isn't shit. It's shit that was shat on. The least they could've done was animate the shit Kishimoto presented them. But no, they had to take it one step further and shit on that shit. Now we not only have an already half-assed manga background, but also an anime background that doesn't even match the inconsistent manga background.

      i'm not even gonna lie it is a whole bunch of bad animation., miss placed back stories, unexplained things like how does black zetsu even know what happened when hagoromo and hamura were growing up he wasn't even born yet but to be honest the sage of six paths should've been the one to explain that and the finale ending should've been the fight with six paths madara not kaguya then the whole naruto vs sasuke thing the end though i also think that momoshiki should've showed up back when kaguya hagoromo and hamura were alive and when hagoromo and hamura was questioning her so they would've been able to deal with them and kaguya should've died during the fight then hamura and hagoromo should've made there clans and went there separate ways

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    • one thing i found intrestin about Hagoromo was when he awakened his sharingan he obtained all three tomoe right of the bat were ass if i'm correct the uchiha would awaken with just one or by rare chance two tomoe in obito and itachi's case.

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    • Deeinfernodestroyer wrote: one thing i found intrestin about Hagoromo was when he awakened his sharingan he obtained all three tomoe right of the bat were ass if i'm correct the uchiha would awaken with just one or by rare chance two tomoe in obito and itachi's case.

      i guess if your the original uchiha you can

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    • This episode is perfectly fine as for me. A bit disappointed because of the lack of action, but overall the plot seems to be pretty nice-made. It was able to explain a lot of things that looked condtradictory to the manga storyline in the previous episode. I suppose even Momo/Kin threat to Kaguya was briefly mentioned (when she told Hag/Ham that the ritual is necessary "until the others arrive"). Actually, Hagoromo awakening Sharingan really seems quite odd, but after thinking out, you can understang that it still makes sense, the same with his senjutsu training.

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    • Deeinfernodestroyer wrote: one thing i found intrestin about Hagoromo was when he awakened his sharingan he obtained all three tomoe right of the bat were ass if i'm correct the uchiha would awaken with just one or by rare chance two tomoe in obito and itachi's case.

      Well he is a pretty powerful guy who uses nature transformation like it's nothing. He destroyed a rock with lightning as an afterthought, even thought that jutsu is at least jonin-level.

      As to underselling Hamura, well the Manga barely mentions him at all. Can't see how it can be more undersold than that.

      As to Hagoromo having Sharingan, i discussed it eons ago. There's nothing strange or contradictory about it whatsoever. just salty people being salty.

      As to the toad not being in IT, no limit on Infinite Tsukuyome has ever been explained. does it trap just humans? Does it trap animals too? Because we haven't seen anything suggesting that animals are caught (the bear was around), why would the toads be?

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    • @Thekillman, actually, we've seen that animals are trapped in the IT when Madara casted it.

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    • I really enjoyed the episode!! I can't wait to see more! Also, doesn't Rinne Rebirth kill the user? I thought Haori was going to be the mother too, but Hagoromo will have to find a loop hole for it to work...

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    • Only some people were affected by IT not all villagers and hence Gamamaru was not affected as you can see in the episode. Or May be Mount Myoboku is in another dimension where natural energy is abundant and the planet's natural energy is depleted by that tree, may be Gamamaru was in Mount Myoboku at that time... just a theory.

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    • Thekillman wrote: As to the toad not being in IT, no limit on Infinite Tsukuyome has ever been explained. does it trap just humans? Does it trap animals too? Because we haven't seen anything suggesting that animals are caught (the bear was around), why would the toads be?

      You've never read the manga, huh?

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    • Kaguya obviously released animals from the genjutsu as well or else there wouldn't be any animals. Gamamaru was just one of the ones that got released. Either that or the roots only seek out and bind humans in the first place. It's not like there are any toad-like White Zetsu running around.

      Are they trying to imply Gamamaru already has chakra somehow? If natural energy alone is enough to use "Sage Power" for superhuman strength and Water nature transformation(?) what exactly did the addition of chakra to senjutsu accomplish? And if only Hagoromo is learning senjutsu, how will Hamura acquire his own Truth-Seeking Balls? Will Hagoromo just give him some sage chakra later?

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    • BeyondRed wrote: Kaguya obviously released animals from the genjutsu as well or else there wouldn't be any animals. Gamamaru was just one of the ones that got released. Either that or the roots only seek out and bind humans in the first place. It's not like there are any toad-like White Zetsu running around.

      Are they trying to imply Gamamaru already has chakra somehow? If natural energy alone is enough to use "Sage Power" for superhuman strength and Water nature transformation(?) what exactly did the addition of chakra to senjutsu accomplish? And if only Hagoromo is learning senjutsu, how will Hamura acquire his own Truth-Seeking Balls? Will Hagoromo just give him some sage chakra later?

      i doubt it but it is a good question

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    • All good questions. I would hope the next episode would shed some light on these. I'm also a fan of how the episode acknowledged the fact that no one knows where the tree and Kaguya came from and why. I wonder since they outright said it (during the scene with Gamamaru in Mt. Myuboku) that they will touch on that too later on.

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    • and even hos hamura gets tenseigan

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    • Well, the episode just mentions natural energy being drained not chakra.

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    • and if hagoromo gets rinnegan after he gets sage mode could hamura get tenseigan the same way but using a different variation ?

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    • Probably. That's how it's going to turn out the way I see it. Right now, Hamura and Kaguya are having a... Byakugan battle? And somehow each releasing chakra from it... Hamura is losing as Kaguya claims to possess a much superior Byakugan compared to him, so I expect now some asspull such as that Hamura is going to turn the tide and overpower her by awakening the Tenseigan.

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    • If Sennin Power was the way to obtain the Rinnegan then Why didn't BZ didn't bother in tainting Indra and the Uchiha's so as to learn it? Also the Cursed Mark of Orochimaru is a minimum Sage power... NO, Sharingan + Sage Mode = Rinnegan is pretty bad as an explanation. Also you ran out of Sage Mode but the blood/genes of the Asura don't ran out...

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    • Elveonora wrote: Probably. That's how it's going to turn out the way I see it. Right now, Hamura and Kaguya are having a... Byakugan battle? And somehow each releasing chakra from it... Hamura is losing as Kaguya claims to possess a much superior Byakugan compared to him, so I expect now some asspull such as that Hamura is going to turn the tide and overpower her by awakening the Tenseigan.

      seems possible thats what it seems like that or some new form of byakugan

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    • I don't know if this is the appropiate place to ask this, but if every living thing, human or not has physical energy, and the world, the air, anything non-animate has nature energy, then where did chakra come from? Do Shinju trees absorb nature energy from the world they're planted on and physcial energy from its victims then somehow converts that to spirtual energy chakra? I know I'm wrong somewhere, can someone enlighten me if there is an explanation.

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    • Jawnaphino wrote: I don't know if this is the appropiate place to ask this, but if every living thing, human or not has physical energy, and the world, the air, anything non-animate has nature energy, then where did chakra come from? Do Shinju trees absorb nature energy from the world they're planted on and physcial energy from its victims then somehow converts that to spirtual energy chakra? I know I'm wrong somewhere, can someone enlighten me if there is an explanation.

      Going by what Madara said to Obito, living things have always had physical energy and spiritual energy, but not chakra. After Hagoromo handed chakra out to them, the people learned to use it to connect their inner energies, thus creating more chakra and amplifying the power of their jutsu. When and how the chakra pathway system came into being and chakra became a requirement to even survive was never explained.

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    • Comic rider
      Comic rider removed this reply because:
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      18:16, May 19, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Thanks for the reply. It does clear things up for me!

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    • Elveonora wrote: Probably. That's how it's going to turn out the way I see it. Right now, Hamura and Kaguya are having a... Byakugan battle? And somehow each releasing chakra from it... Hamura is losing as Kaguya claims to possess a much superior Byakugan compared to him, so I expect now some asspull such as that Hamura is going to turn the tide and overpower her by awakening the Tenseigan.

      or he's gonna buss out with some massive gentle fist

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    • @BeyondRed Yeah, it's really absurd how chakra became a requirement for living beings. It's something that they don't really need in order to survive, so why should they die if they run out of chakra?

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    • Just like life on Earth evolved to require oxygen for survival.

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    • Not only to survive, they apparently need chakra just to move since blocking enough tenketsu can immobilise a person. There are also times where losing/gaining chakra has an effect on a person's muscle mass, though it seems inconsistent.

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    • Chakra is basically a mixture of Spiritual energy (mind) and Physical energy (energy produced by cells of the body) If that energy is sapped out they die, my best guess is that Hagoromo taught them to mould these two energies to create chakra for use. Kaguya was the first person to mould these two energies on Naruto's planet.

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    • Nah, it was said that Hagoromo spread chakra to everyone, implying they had no chakra to begin with, although I suppose they had spiritual and mental energies that couldn't be combined. Even the latest anime episode mentions of everyone and everything being drained of Natural Energy by the Shinju, not chakra.

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    • Seelentau wrote: You've never read the manga, huh?

      I'm sorry i forgot about a small panel with cats with barely distinguishable rinnegan-reflections.

      Jawnaphino wrote: I don't know if this is the appropiate place to ask this, but if every living thing, human or not has physical energy, and the world, the air, anything non-animate has nature energy, then where did chakra come from?

      It seems the Tree has the ability to connect the spiritual and physical energy of it's victims and turn that into chakra. It is also accumulating Nature Energy, presumably to grow.

      It makes sense that Nature Energy can be used on it's own in jutsu, after all if you can absorb the energy in water, can't you expel that energy to recreate water? Chakra simply seems to add a versatility factor to it, and in a way Nature Energy seems superior to normal chakra.

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    • Considering that Tenpenchii is said to create its effect using natural energy alone, it should be possible, no chakra or nature transformation involved.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Just like life on Earth evolved to require oxygen for survival.

      But not all life require oxygen to live, though

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Just like life on Earth evolved to require oxygen for survival.

      But not all life require oxygen to live, though

      like fish

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    • The "Hagoromo (w/Sharingan)" versus battle threads.

      I can feel them incoming.

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    • NeedleJizo wrote: The "Hagoromo (w/Sharingan)" versus battle threads.

      I can feel them incoming.

      lol

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    • There's no real indication the tree is feeding off of the humans' energies or chakra or anything. It's just converting them into soldiers for Kaguya while also feeding off of the natural energy in the environment. Which is in line with the God Tree on Momoshiki's planet that apparently sucked its world completely dry.

      Natural energy disturbing the environment or shifting the terrain is one thing, but actually creating water and expelling it like a Water Release technique is something else. It makes the whole "balancing the three energies to use senjutsu" thing seem pointless if it can do all that on its own. Whatever happened to too much natural energy turning you to stone?

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    • Where do you guys think the tree and Kaguya came from? I think whatever world the Otsutsuki come from, they have a God Tree too, and they send seeds(?) to other worlds with life on them to accumlate the planets energy into chakra fruit so that they can use that energy for their own accord, whether it's to extend their life or whatever. I think Kaguya was sent to watch over the Tree, to make sure no one interfered with it, but as time moved on she decided to take the power for herself as she developed a love for the planet and some of its people. Then she maybe began converting the people into White Zetsu soldiers to help defend against Momoshiki and Kinshiki when they would inevitable arrive. What do you guys think?

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    • elveonora you have the same opinion as I am about getting rinnegan.

      I have a theory. As Gammamaru said the divine tree was absorbing natural energy and life forces, it's kind of parasite, maybe created by Ootsutsuki or someone else and send over the planets where the lifes were. Boruto the movie proves that because that shinju on momoshiki planet absorbed every natural energy and that why there is any sign of nature or life. Otsutsuki have different bodies than others as momoshiki stated. I assume that Nature energy is key to their power, Kaguya got Rinne-sharingan after eating Chakra fruit. Chakra Fruit is only product of natural energy that Shinju was absorbing. Gammamaru said that Hagoromo can become like Kaguya, so I can say chakra fruit gives power to absorb natural energy and it's key to ootsutsuki powers, natural energy unlocks every power that kaguya has (if someone have full ootsutsuki body). Look at that Momoshiki stated that Otsutsuki can gain youth, long life. strenght by absorbing/eating chakra, So negative effects of nature energy don't work on Ootsutsuki, It gives them a power. So it means It's highly probably that thanks to nature energy Hagoromo awakes rinnegan, it unlocks him that power, i think. Based that there are statues of frogs, I can say there were people who wanted that power, but who were They? Based that Gamammaru exists in that era, I can say as well Snake sennin and snail sennin exist, because the three of places where they live are legendary. i would mention that momoshiki's appearance after absorbing Kinshiki become like Cursed seals' guys. So maybe Snake sennin is connected to divine tree.

      @up Momoshiki and kinshiki are not that powerful being that Kaguya was afraid of. They didn't know how kaguya looks like, in novel kinshiki asked if is this kaguya (looking at Sasuke). Maybe their ancestors were somehow conected to Kaguya.

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    • Comic rider wrote: they were really underrating hamura but idk why everyone says its messed up for hagoromo to have sharingan when sharingan is the ground work for the rinnegan but this now makes me wander will he have mangekyou sharingan and have a susanooif there doing the sharingan thing logically the m sharingan does come next then he could unlock the rinnegan since he is the first senju/uchiha so it would be next logically

      Punctuations dude. Your comments are so hard to understand, even in other posts.

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    • Some interesting things I noticed: In Episode 458 BZ said not to worry since last time Kaguya cast the IT she didn't kill anyone in it, rather she converted them into WZ. However, in this episode Hagoromo and Hamura find Haori's body trapped and they pronouce her dead. Did they misdiagnose her? I doubt it considering their knowledge and power in healing and other medical stuff. Did BZ overexaggerate? Maybe they do die but are slowly turned to WZ anyway. Maybe she was just really close to death. Also when Kaguya looked at Naruto and Sasuke after she was revived she said "are these Hagoromo's and Hamura's... no, its Indra and Ashura." How did Kaguya know who Indra and Ashura were if she was sealed before they were born? Unless I'm wrong about that. Maybe when BZ revived her he also updated her on the entire history he recorded. He is an extension of her's afterall.

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    • Comic rider wrote:

      UltimaDude wrote: But not all life require oxygen to live, though

      like fish

      ... You realize fish need oxygen to survive right?

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    • Raezil adm wrote: elveonora you have the same opinion as I am about getting rinnegan.

      I have a theory. As Gammamaru said the divine tree was absorbing natural energy and life forces, it's kind of parasite, maybe created by Ootsutsuki or someone else and send over the planets where the lifes were. Boruto the movie proves that because that shinju on momoshiki planet absorbed every natural energy and that why there is any sign of nature or life. Otsutsuki have different bodies than others as momoshiki stated. I assume that Nature energy is key to their power, Kaguya got Rinne-sharingan after eating Chakra fruit. Chakra Fruit is only product of natural energy that Shinju was absorbing. Gammamaru said that Hagoromo can become like Kaguya, so I can say chakra fruit gives power to absorb natural energy and it's key to ootsutsuki powers, natural energy unlocks every power that kaguya has (if someone have full ootsutsuki body). Look at that Momoshiki stated that Otsutsuki can gain youth, long life. strenght by absorbing/eating chakra, So negative effects of nature energy don't work on Ootsutsuki, It gives them a power. So it means It's highly probably that thanks to nature energy Hagoromo awakes rinnegan, it unlocks him that power, i think. Based that there are statues of frogs, I can say there were people who wanted that power, but who were They? Based that Gamammaru exists in that era, I can say as well Snake sennin and snail sennin exist, because the three of places where they live are legendary. i would mention that momoshiki's appearance after absorbing Kinshiki become like Cursed seals' guys. So maybe Snake sennin is connected to divine tree.

      @up Momoshiki and kinshiki are not that powerful being that Kaguya was afraid of. They didn't know how kaguya looks like, in novel kinshiki asked if is this kaguya (looking at Sasuke). Maybe their ancestors were somehow conected to Kaguya.

      yes...yes they are. watch the movie.

      the novel version isnt canon, and Momoshiki namedrops Kaguya so he definitely knew her.

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    • So what I can understand so far out of this is:

      - There has already been nature energy in the world, notably concentrated in areas such as Mount Myokobu.

      - The Shinju feeds off not just the blood of the fallen, but all energies around it. It's pretty much the same as every other incarnation of the World Tree ever. (I always thought that the Shinju was symbiotic with the world, with every untouched millennial fruit rotting into massive amounts of nature energy, which by extension led to the formation of the above-mentioned Sage Lands.)

      - Kaguya's consumption of the fruit gave her a special energy produced by the Shinju, chakra. The chakra also gave her (and through birth her sons) the ability to combine physical and spiritual energy to form more chakra. I had to mention this obvious bit because the core mechanics behind chakra have been beyond screwed by the introduction of the Juubi/Kaguya and there at least has to be some form of explanation behind it.

      - The first version of the Infinite Tsukoyumi killed those entrapped (or, to keep consistent with the manga logic, sapped them of all internal energy and kept them on life support until either the "line" was cut or the transformation into white zetsu completed). People at the time didn't have the ability or anatomy to use chakra, so sapping them dry didn't reduce them to a desiccated corpse.

      - Hagoromo didn't have an inherited ability to use nature energy, he had to learn it. From a toad. Because apparently toads are the only sage beings on the entire planet. Seriously, where did Hashirama learn his Buddha-esque Sage Mode?

      - Byakugan has a Shinra Tensei-style attack. What happened to Air Palm, or those Air Fists we saw two episodes ago?

      Either way, I can't bitch too much about this episode, I like it.

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    • hagoromo just awakened people's abilities to mold there physical and spiritual energies together. and clearly kaguya already had chakra before eating the fruit. otherwise she wouldn't have been able to blow people up without touching them


      on a side note. the fact the shinju was draining the world of natural energy makes me speculate that hashirama's senjutsu was because of his wood release ability.

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    • 1) How is it that Hagoromo's Six Paths Senjutsu is different and far more potent than normal senjutsu, when Hagoromo wasn't born with it and had to learn it from the toads? So how does that toad senjutsu magically convert into Six Paths Senjutsu?

      2) So basically, if EMS Madara learned Senjutsu, he would awaken the Rinnegan? There seems to be some implication of that sort here.

      3) How can the toads use senjutsu without possessing chakra? I thought beings with high chakra reserves were supposed to be the only ones suitable for senjutsu? So how did the toads balance the excess natural energy when it was clearly stated in the Pain arc that counteracting excess natural energy requires chakra control.

      4) And why the fuck can't Hamura use ninjutsu?

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    • 4)Normally we have never seen a Hyuga or a person with naturally developed Byakugan using nature transformation, however Hinata has innate ability to use fire release, lightning release according to databook. May be they all have the ability but they chose to fight with what is easier for them, that is with Byakugan's techniques, only Hagoromo is shown to perform nature transformation in this episode.

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    • Loved the episode, it cleared up some things from the previous episode and cleared up some plotholes left in the manga.

      I am sick of reading these episode discussion threads and reading blatantly inflammatory comments from people who hate the anime. If you don't like it, don't watch the anime anymore and don't ruin it for others by commenting in this thread with insulting remarks about how much you hate it. >_>

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    • Seelentau wrote: Well, I have to agree, they did a good job. They took Kishimoto's inability to create a consistent background story and went one step further. It is actually quite impressive to come up with more bullshit than the author himself. I honestly thought that was impossible to top. But Pierrot did it.

      They did say that this wouldn't exactly be filler. Apart from that, I am digging this story right now. So go hate elsewhere. The history of shinobi that came from Hagoromo's era was amazing and it has been foreshadowed for like 100 chapters or more.


      JouXIII wrote: So, Kaguya's IT did affect the whole world... Which means Gamamaru shouldn't be even talking with Hagoromo and Hamura.

      Also, Hagoromo getting Sharingan... I'm pretty iffy about it.

      Then again, anime-only stuff(fillers and "extensions" of scenes from manga) are about as canon as Rock Lee-spinoff, so not really surprised Studio Pierrot does something like this...

      According to SI, this is not exactly filler and Gamamaru actually makes sense. You since, he claimed that he doesn't dream. Or hardly ever dreams.

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    • Funny, just a few episodes ago, everybody could shit on the series and nobody would bat an eye.

      I would love to say that I enjoyed the episode, but that's not quite true, even though I can't see anything particularly wrong with it. I guess I can't get used to the new setting. While it's nice they included many details such as Hamura's changing hairstyles and Gamamaru's role in general, it so often seemed half-assed and rushed to me. Like, what was that scene with that girl even about? Why would she die instead of being turned into a WZ? Just so that Hagoromo could get a Sharingan? But didn't he have a Byakugan before that? It looks like it, but he never uses it? Why did Hamura have one then? Waaay too much open space for fan speculations which never end well, that's the one true thing recorded on this wiki.

      Anyhow, all in all not a bad episode, but still one I couldn't enjoy as so many others here. And no, I will continue watching regardless.

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    • Norleon knows.

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    • Indrashura wrote:

      Comic rider wrote: they were really underrating hamura but idk why everyone says its messed up for hagoromo to have sharingan when sharingan is the ground work for the rinnegan but this now makes me wander will he have mangekyou sharingan and have a susanooif there doing the sharingan thing logically the m sharingan does come next then he could unlock the rinnegan since he is the first senju/uchiha so it would be next logically

      Punctuations dude. Your comments are so hard to understand, even in other posts.

      if you can read it then its fine

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    • The tree was said to keep the wrapped victims alive, true, but I'm quite sure that there has to be a point when they die before turning into White Zetsu. I mean, it's not like their bodies are alive one second and the next they turn into White Zetsu, they get completely mutated and changed, one shouldn't consider the White Zetsu to be people that they once used to be. In the transformation, there has to be a point of death of their humanity, both in physiological sense and mental sense and then basically from the corpse the White Zetsu gets created.

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    • well the episode was a nice one. however those that think hagomoro's white eye isn't a byakugan shouldn't say so because one all Ootsutsukis with white eyes are said to possess byakugan(I don't think hagoromo is an exception).Moreover,kinshiki ootsutsuki is considered to have byakugan though he never used it in the Movie

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    • MayowaMakinde wrote: well the episode was a nice one. however those that think hagomoro's white eye isn't a byakugan shouldn't say so because one all Ootsutsukis with white eyes are said to possess byakugan(I don't think hagoromo is an exception).Moreover,kinshiki ootsutsuki is considered to have byakugan though he never used it in the Movie

      Kinshiki has Byakugan because in his drawings we saw the swollen veins [1] and databook Zai no Sho [2]. And if I'm not wrong, it is told in the novel!

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    • Elveonora wrote: Probably. That's how it's going to turn out the way I see it. Right now, Hamura and Kaguya are having a... Byakugan battle? And somehow each releasing chakra from it... Hamura is losing as Kaguya claims to possess a much superior Byakugan compared to him, so I expect now some asspull such as that Hamura is going to turn the tide and overpower her by awakening the Tenseigan.

      You are not alone in this theory

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    • If you always try to find reasons why something would not work, you will never be pleased with the story... For example:

      Even if Gamamaru was trapped inside IT, he still had the orb that recorded what happens on the surface and nothing could have stopped him from going at the tree location and learning it's true nature (after Kaguya erased his memory. Did she even believed that animals with "memory" like Gamamaru existed on that planet?). In conclusion, we don't care whether he got trapped in IT or not.

      I think that it is safe to believe that there are more special animals on that planet, since all bijuu are animals or probably Hagoromo made them special by giving them the chakra. The birth of the bijuu is an episode that I really want to see.

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    • Sharingan91 wrote:

      MayowaMakinde wrote: well the episode was a nice one. however those that think hagomoro's white eye isn't a byakugan shouldn't say so because one all Ootsutsukis with white eyes are said to possess byakugan(I don't think hagoromo is an exception).Moreover,kinshiki ootsutsuki is considered to have byakugan though he never used it in the Movie

      Kinshiki has Byakugan because in his drawings we saw the swollen veins [1] and databook Zai no Sho [2]. And if I'm not wrong, it is told in the novel!

      thank you for pointing that out,i believe this strengthens my point

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    • I'm Hoping They Expand On Indra And Ashura's Backgrounds Too Since The Story Is Being Told By Black Zetsu And We See Him In The Preview Of The Next Episode, lol.

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    • MayowaMakinde wrote: thank you for pointing that out,i believe this strengthens my point

      It doesn't.

      The Otsutsuki's natural eye color is white. That's all there is to it. The otsutsuki of the moon were Hamura's descendants (and thus had his Byakugan). We don't even know how Momoshiki and Kinshiki relate to this whole story or how they obtained their power exactly. Them having Byakugan proves exactly nothing.

      Hagoromo has white eyes because that's the color of the Otsutsuki eyes, just like Kaguya's eyes before she got byakugan.

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    • Asura is also Otsutsuki, but he has black eyes, we dont know Indra's eye color, because he always appears with Sharingan.

      So, we can not claim that white color is Otsutsuki natural eye color.

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    • Supper Sasuke wrote: Asura is also Otsutsuki, but he has black eyes, we dont know Indra's eye color, because he always appears with Sharingan.

      So, we can not claim that white color is Otsutsuki natural eye color.

      Asura and Indra are 1/4 alien(otsutsuki) and 3/4 Human

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    • Yes, but they are also a members of Otsutsuki clan, and still they dont have white eyes.

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    • "Otsutsuki" in Asura Otsutsuki is clan name, a surname, Hagoromo X someone's offspring will have their surname Otsutsuki because Hagoromo and Otsutsuki clan have high status, it doesn't mean they have direct relation to Otsutsuki of another planet or they should have Byakugan bloodline. After Kaguya's sealing, Otsutsuki clan branched off into two, Hamura's progeny all gained Byakugan and some of Hagoromo's descendants gained sharingan.

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    • Yeps. Hagoromo and Hamura are half alien half human, Asura and Indra are 1/4 alien 3/4 human, already with no visible alien traits whatsoever, so Asura and Indra's children and their children were mostly Otsutsuki by name alone if anything, no wonder they changed it to Uchiha and Senju eventually. But I think Hamura's Moon descendants (last being Toneri) were more alien by blood than Asura and Indra even, probably by means of inbreeding the genes were preserved, unlike on Earth, where they have vanished almost completely, with the exception of Hyuga having their eyes.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Deeinfernodestroyer wrote: one thing i found intrestin about Hagoromo was when he awakened his sharingan he obtained all three tomoe right of the bat were ass if i'm correct the uchiha would awaken with just one or by rare chance two tomoe in obito and itachi's case.

      Well he is a pretty powerful guy who uses nature transformation like it's nothing. He destroyed a rock with lightning as an afterthought, even thought that jutsu is at least jonin-level.

      As to underselling Hamura, well the Manga barely mentions him at all. Can't see how it can be more undersold than that.

      As to Hagoromo having Sharingan, i discussed it eons ago. There's nothing strange or contradictory about it whatsoever. just salty people being salty.

      As to the toad not being in IT, no limit on Infinite Tsukuyome has ever been explained. does it trap just humans? Does it trap animals too? Because we haven't seen anything suggesting that animals are caught (the bear was around), why would the toads be?

      well we have seen tht cats have been effected by madara's IT so i think tht pretty much confirms tht animals r effected by it.

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    • It's been confirmed that we'll get a backstory of Asura and Indra this June according to Naruto Shippuden's webpage at TV-Tokyo's website...

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    • Shakhmoot wrote: It's been confirmed that we'll get a backstory of Asura and Indra this June according to Naruto Shippuden's webpage at TV-Tokyo's website...

      Sighs, let's just hope it won't be as sh!tty as this arc

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    • Can't wait to see how they fuck that up. I bet they give Asura the Byakugan or something.

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    • Come on, these backstory episodes are still pretty okay. I don't mind if Studio's going to give some for Indra/Asura as well.

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    • Imagine an ass being pulled out of a bigger ass. That's what this filler is for me. They can't even blame this on the manga any longer. That's how bad it is.

      And I'm not even this salty because how shitty this filler is. I can deal with shitty fillers. What I can't deal with are all these inconsistencies that tear the wiki apart. They're making our work unnecessarily complicated, even more than Kishimoto did.

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    • No, they are doing what Kishimoto didn't do, filling the gaps. If it makes sense to you or not is irrelevant, because no explanation was offered by Kishimoto in the first place, so anything goes. If they say Sakura's grandmother is a cow, we list it as true, unless Kishimoto comes out and says that Sakura's grandma isn't a cow.

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    • This Filler Is Awesome Tho. I Really Like It, Lmao. Hagoromo Having The Sharingan Was A Total Surprise Cuz For Some Reason We Just Assumed That He Had The Rinnegan From The Start, lol.

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    • Sarutobii2
      Sarutobii2 removed this reply because:
      Lets not insult users here shall we?
      03:20, May 21, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • JouXIII wrote: Sure, fillers are ok and awesome... if you're kid who doesn't know any better and gets excited easily, that is.

      Go and post those disparaging remarks somewhere else. I'm not a kid and I do not appreciate these persistently disrespectful, demeaning and flamebaiting remarks that are constantly being posted here by filler haters, there are some people who like fillers and it is getting tiresome reading this thread and only viewing posts that don't actually add anything to the discussion. If you don't like fillers, don't damn well watch them, nobody forces you to watch things you don't like!

      I didn't watch those Jiraiya and IT fillers and did I lose sleep over it? No. I didn't persistently sit on this wiki bashing them in front of people who actually genuinely liked them.

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    • Elveonora wrote: No, they are doing what Kishimoto didn't do, filling the gaps. If it makes sense to you or not is irrelevant, because no explanation was offered by Kishimoto in the first place, so anything goes. If they say Sakura's grandmother is a cow, we list it as true, unless Kishimoto comes out and says that Sakura's grandma isn't a cow.

      And that's the problem: Anything goes and we have to document anything, even the most senseless shit (manga or anime, doesn't matter). I mean, you can see the uproar in this wiki each time something new is released? May it be Boruto's Byakugan, Hagoromo's Byakugan or whatever. Is it too much to ask for consistency? The anime is the last possibility to fix Kishimoto's mistakes, but they just constantly make it worse.

      But as Jou said, if you're out for some easy entertainment without looking for sense and logic, the filler are okay-ish.

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    • The Fillers Makes Sense To Me, lol.

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    • Somehow, That Didn't Surprise Me At All.

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    • It's only natural that some controversies still happen, there have always been debatable issues in both manga and anime, plus another official sources. The latter has nothing special to blame with. Except for the wrong fillers in the wrong place and at the wrong time, but it's actually not about this one.

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    • The special thing is that they take Kishimoto's inconsistencies and make them even worse. Just look at how they made the Shinju somehow fall down from the skies, when the manga and databook stated that it grew from the blood shed by mankind. Do you want me to continue?

      On that note: I can't wait to see which of the two plotlines they follow regarding Kaguya's sealing. Or maybe they make up a third one, you never know.

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    • At this point, the most interesting thing is grabbing popcorn and watching this thread. Fillers are not necessarily bad, but this one is. I can't dislike this arc if I don't watch it first, that goes for pretty much every piece of entertainment. The argument "if you don't like, don't watch" is flawed. I for example didn't watch several episodes back, when there was the ninja ostrich. As such, I didn't bash it. Now this arc was supposed to be something that could give Kaguya a proper background, because there was none in the manga, but instead of filling the blanks nice and pretty, they're poking more holes into it. It's not a case of blind filler hate, it's a case of extreme disappointment because even when the manga set the bar super low, they're still not making it.

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    • I think they are doing a damn amazing job with the crumbs that Kishimoto left them with. And something is telling me, that even if they did the most amazing holy mother of god things with this filler arc, people still would not be satisfied and bitch how crappy it is, because 'filler omg not canon doesn't make sense contradicts manga' song.

      I for one have to praise Pierrot for actually TAKING RISKS with their creativity, going so far as to give Hagoromo the Byakugan and Sharingan, expand on the Shinju's origin, have Kaguya use powers before chakra fruit etc. It surely makes for much more interesting show than if they had to follow the manga strictly and fear expanding on any plotholes left by Kishimoto just so it doesn't possibly go against what he had intended by never realized OMG.

      Boruto manga 'omg it's a rehash of the Boruto movie with shittier graphics' Naruto anime 'canon filler' ...'omg they are taking creative liberties to actually do Kishimoto's job that he didn't do properly, how dare they'

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    • As I said, I don't care about the filler quality as a whole. There are good and bad fillers. But they had the possibility to clarify stuff Kishimoto left unclear, and they didn't do it. Instead, the Shinju is now some alien tree and Hagoromo apparently has a Sharingan-turned Byakugan.

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    • You have yourself on numerous occasions acknowledged how many plotholes, errors and contradictions there are in the manga and databooks, by our very beloved benefactor himself.

      Yet somehow it seems Kishi is getting somehow less criticism for not following his own shit fully through, than Pierrot not following his.

      I just wonder what some people's reaction would be if Kishi were to sit on their lap, slowly lean over their shoulder and softly whisper into their ear that it's all actually canon what's shown in this filler and that he was just lazy, so someone else had to do his work for him.

      Again, I don't see how is filling the huge hole left by Kishi by any means crappy, like what's wrong with giving Hagoromo Byakugan/Sharingan? It doesn't contradict anything, it's new lore building on the previously established.

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    • Eh? I wrote about that earlier:

      Seelentau wrote: And that's the problem: Anything goes and we have to document anything, even the most senseless shit (manga or anime, doesn't matter). I mean, you can see the uproar in this wiki each time something new is released? May it be Boruto's Byakugan, Hagoromo's Byakugan or whatever. Is it too much to ask for consistency? The anime is the last possibility to fix Kishimoto's mistakes, but they just constantly make it worse.

      Again: It's not about filling the gaps, it's about how they do it.

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    • By all means enlighten me about how you would have done things better/differently if you had been in charge of the production process, then.

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    • Before, we just accepted the fact that the tree grew from the blood of the fallen and Hagoromo was simply born with the Rinnegan. Although it honestly doesn't make sense with the info we had before because why would there be only one tree? Why not multiple? If a tree existing on a planet prevents another one for growing, sure, but technically the tree didn't exist anymore, now in the form of the Gedo Statue and possibly distributed bit by bit in all the tailed beasts. And if it grows from the blood of the fallen, why wouldn't there be more growing considering all the wars there's been since Kaguya's time. Now we have an explanation that it came from somewhere, whether intentionally sent by the Otsutsuki or not is still unknown.

      As for Hagoromo, why would he be born with the Rinnegan and not his brother? Just random genetic distribution or chakra distribution during their development? Of course now we know he wasn't born with the Rinnegan and that it wasn't a "handed down" trait from his mother's Rinne-Sharigan, not directly anyway.

      Therefore, I would argue that these fillers with their added details to the series actually explain some questions we've had and yet leaves some mystery to wonder about. Overall a positive addition, in my opinion.

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    • I would've animated the manga plot, maybe asked Kishimoto about it (especially the moon thing mentioned above) and that's it. But okay, here are the many inconsistencies from the last two episodes:

      • Why change the Shinju to an alien tree meteor when it was already established that it grew from bloodshed?
      • Why let Kaguya enslave the whole world when the manga said she only enslaved nations?
      • Where is the whole princess-turned-demon-process?
      • Why wasn't Gamamaru affected by the Mugen Tsukuyomi?
      • Why give Hagoromo Hyuga-eyes only to let him awaken the Sharingan?
      • If Gamamaru saw Hagoromo and Hamura fight their mother, why didn't it see her turning into the Jubi?
      • Where's the whole "No one's allowed to eat the Shinju's fruit but Kaguya did it anyways"?
      • Why accurately depict the Shinju as a normal, though giant tree only to let Kaguya somehow summon the TT-tree version?
      • Why let Kaguya cast the MT on a moon that happened to be in a dimension Kaguya was able to open since only seconds earlier? Why not simply let her use her third eye to cast it from the skies on the nation below?
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    • Those are all excellent points. Only a few could possibly be explained by the fact that the passing of time could put a shroud over truth, or at least some details of it. Some are clear examples of ret-con, or semi-ret-con.

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    • The anime can't retcon the source, fortunately.

      Also, I felt like some kind of youtube Naruto anime dude who posts his opinion each week, posting that list. Please don't make me do that again. ._.

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    • Doesn't a databook state about Rinnegan that: It is said that in times of disorder, one who wields the Rinnegan is sent down from the heavens to become either a "God of Creation" who will calm the world or a "Destroyer" who will reduce everything to nothingness yet nothing in the actual manga suggests that... some maybe some things are just flavor lore/myths instead of pure facts?

      • the bloodshed part can still be partially true as to what nourished the tree or as mentioned, flavor lore/myth... does the databook state it as a fact or does it go: it's said/believed that x happened
      • world consists of nations
      • she was a whore of a human king, that 'kinda' makes her a princess, also it now seems like she is the ruler of the land after Tenji got Zetsu'd, so she is a self-proclaimed princess and the fake tradesman said that other nations think she is a tyrant
      • he explained it, toads usually don't dream
      • if we accept that Byakugan is something they are born with and that Hagoromo wasn't born with the Rinnegan, since to my knowledge it has never been stated in the manga or databooks, then Sharingan was given as means to explain his eventual Rinnegan acquisition
      • he gets visions of the future, he doesn't see all the future events at all times in their entirety
      • maybe it didn't refer to humans, but the other Otsutsuki established that no single individual may eat the fruit but Kaguya did it, hence why she probably broke a deal and started to defend against them (Kinshiki and Momoshiki)
      • not explained in manga either
      • to affect the entire planet not just small nation
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    • This episode has less logic than a Cowspirationist's theory.

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    • Seelentau wrote: The special thing is that they take Kishimoto's inconsistencies and make them even worse. Just look at how they made the Shinju somehow fall down from the skies, when the manga and databook stated that it grew from the blood shed by mankind. Do you want me to continue?

      On that note: I can't wait to see which of the two plotlines they follow regarding Kaguya's sealing. Or maybe they make up a third one, you never know.

      Uhm, Didn't They Say The Bloodshed Made The Fruit, Not The Tree Itself?

      Elveonora wrote: I think they are doing a damn amazing job with the crumbs that Kishimoto left them with. And something is telling me, that even if they did the most amazing holy mother of god things with this filler arc, people still would not be satisfied and bitch how crappy it is, because 'filler omg not canon doesn't make sense contradicts manga' song.

      I for one have to praise Pierrot for actually TAKING RISKS with their creativity, going so far as to give Hagoromo the Byakugan and Sharingan, expand on the Shinju's origin, have Kaguya use powers before chakra fruit etc. It surely makes for much more interesting show than if they had to follow the manga strictly and fear expanding on any plotholes left by Kishimoto just so it doesn't possibly go against what he had intended by never realized OMG.

      Boruto manga 'omg it's a rehash of the Boruto movie with shittier graphics' Naruto anime 'canon filler' ...'omg they are taking creative liberties to actually do Kishimoto's job that he didn't do properly, how dare they'

      They Didn't Give Him Byakugan, Just White Eyes, He Never Used Byakugan, lol.

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    • So the Manga is the only source of Canon? That is a very small canon :P Although I understand there are different levels of the story. There's the base canon, then there's that and anything else Kishimoto had a hand in like some of the movies, then there's all of that and anything else under the official and Licensed name of "Naruto".

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      • Can't remember if the tree grew due to bloodshed or the fruit.
      • Yes, but nations not of worlds. She enslaved nations, not the entire world.
      • Yes, but the manga depicted it in a different way, I think.
      • What does toads not dreaming have to do with getting caught in a genjutsu?
      • The Byakugan is (tmk) something the Otsutsuki are born with. Hagoromo is a half-breed, so why give him the violet eyes in the first place?
      • Fair enough. Still weird how they didn't notice their mother vanishing and a big-ass monster appearing. But that's a manga thing.
      • Na, that law was human-made.
      • Kaguya never summoned the TT-tree in the manga.
      • See above, the manga only said nation(s).

      I mean, I don't want you guys to find explanations now. The pure existence of these points is enough proof how Pierrot effed up, no? If they would've put thought into it, there would be nothing to complain for me.

      Jawnaphino, canon is the original publication. For example, Pokémon has three different canon: The game canon, the anime canon and the manga canon. Naruto has one, the manga, while the anime adapts the manga. That's why we (should) give manga information precedence above anime information.

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    • ^ Don't forget the bear.

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    • If I had a nickel for every time I got a headache pondering on a plot hole or inconsistency from Naruto I could probably buy a life-time supply of Tylenol. I just accept the fact that some things are a mystery. It tends to help. Of course when one is trying to edit an official wiki page, I can understand the stress of getting the facts "straight", especially for those long-time fans. I have a lot of respect for my fellow fans, and hard working contributors of this wiki and I hope you aren't beating yourselves up too much about the details.

      Also, thanks for clearing up what exactly Canon is. It's always been a bit confusing to me, I admit.

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    • The only good thing that came from this filler so far is how Hagoromo learned senjutsu. Maybe we actually get an explanation how Six Paths Senjutsu is different from normal senjutsu (although I have my own ideas).

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    • Ooo I would love to know the difference as well. When the whole Six Paths Chakra and powers were introduced sometime by the end of the war arc, it was perhaps the most confusing part of the series, at least in my experience first watching through.

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    • Hagoromo shouldn't even have to learn Senjutsu since he was born with it in the first place

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Hagoromo shouldn't even have to learn Senjutsu since he was born with it in the first place

      Hagoromo was born with chakra. For senjutsu, you need natural energy.

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    • So where is the source of this tree, was it earth because in Boruto movie you can see another tree? does that mean all planets have one god tree? correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it mentioned somewhere that this tree and Kaguya are aliens? many things in manga and anime are left open for interpretation. Anime cannot give every technical detail about the mechanics of a jutsu it seems the animators are following canon rules but sometimes some inconsistency is created and the problem is we try to fit manga and anime together in this wiki, the real problem is for editors.

      I wouldn't mind if this backstory continues 3 or 4 episode it brings out feelings and urge to watch more episode as we've already read the manga and got bored, more so Kaguya's background was completely missed out in manga, we didn't know why she cried, obviously her sons sealed her is the reason but in manga it seemed it wasn't enough, don't know why Kishimoto rushed this part may be he thought it is unrelated to Naruto's story but still interesting to know these things.

      I want to know why Naruto and Sasuke and some others were unaffected by IT, why Tailed beast are required for releasing the jutsu? we all want answers I hope anime gives them, I could give lots of reason for Kaguya's IT inconsistencies, may be Kaguya can limit the number of person to attach to the tree since she became Ten-Tails and can control the Shinju and can released some humans to repopulate when she wants(mentioned in anime). I think Gamamaru escaped the sealing process she stopped sealing everyone in IT at some point and last person sealed was the king,

      And about the TT-tree form, the tree became a TT-tree version only to release fruit. She casted on the moon because she needed more soldiers :-)

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    • Omnibender wrote: Hagoromo was born with chakra. For senjutsu, you need natural energy.

      He was born with Senjutsu chakra, seeing as how he was born from Kaguya. There is no reason why he should learn how to obtain something he already have

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    • He wasn't born with Senjutsu chakra. Kaguya doesn't have Senjutsu chakra.

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    • But Nobody Ever Stated In Series That He Was Born With Senjutsu Chakra. He Did Have A Natural Affinity For It Though.

      Mecha Naruto wrote: So where is the source of this tree, was it earth because in Boruto movie you can see another tree? does that mean all planets have one god tree? correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it mentioned somewhere that this tree and Kaguya are aliens? many things in manga and anime are left open for interpretation. Anime cannot give every technical detail about the mechanics of a jutsu it seems the animators are following canon rules but sometimes some inconsistency is created and the problem is we try to fit manga and anime together in this wiki, the real problem is for editors.

      I wouldn't mind if this backstory continues 3 or 4 episode it brings out feelings and urge to watch more episode as we've already read the manga and got bored, more so Kaguya's background was completely missed out in manga, we didn't know why she cried, obviously her sons sealed her is the reason but in manga it seemed it wasn't enough, don't know why Kishimoto rushed this part may be he thought it is unrelated to Naruto's story but still interesting to know these things.

      I want to know why Naruto and Sasuke and some others were unaffected by IT, why Tailed beast are required for releasing the jutsu? we all want answers I hope anime gives them, I could give lots of reason for Kaguya's IT inconsistencies, may be Kaguya can limit the number of person to attach to the tree since she became Ten-Tails and can control the Shinju and can released some humans to repopulate when she wants(mentioned in anime). I think Gamamaru escaped the sealing process she stopped sealing everyone in IT at some point and last person sealed was the king,

      And about the TT-tree form, the tree became a TT-tree version only to release fruit. She casted on the moon because she needed more soldiers :-)

      The Tailed Beasts Were Required Because Its A Ten Tails Related Jutsu, lol. Gamamaru Probably Escaped Because He Was In Mount Myoboku At The Time, lol.

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    • Seelentau wrote: He wasn't born with Senjutsu chakra. Kaguya doesn't have Senjutsu chakra.

      Kaguya does have Senjutsu chakra, hence the 10-tails having a load of natural energy

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    • The Ten-Tails doesn't have loads of natural energy, it manipulates the natural energy of the trees and seas.

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    • Remember when Naruto tried to sense it's natural energy levels in Sage Mode and Kurama told him it was almost immeasurable so there was no use trying??

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    • Kaguya is both Senjustsu and Ninjutsu's creator.

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    • For those who think that Gamamaru staying at Mount Myōboku would let him escape IT, no it wouldn't. Mount Myōboku is still part of Shinobi World, meaning IT reaches there as well.

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    • If he was underground, in the pitch black where there was no light, he would not have been caught in it.. The IT Light needs to be seen from any source of light. There are no windows or cracks of light underground.

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    • Seelentau wrote: The Ten-Tails doesn't have loads of natural energy, it manipulates the natural energy of the trees and seas.

      What QuakingStar said. Also Hamura, who never had contact with the Ten-Tails chakra was able to use TSBs, meaning he also has some form of Senjutsu chakra

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    • I know it's not a satisfying answer, but maybe, just maybe, summons are not affected by the IT? Sasuke could still summon his hawk after all... But then again, "summoning" was not yet a thing during Kaguya's time I guess...okay, I have no idea after all.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Remember when Naruto tried to sense it's natural energy levels in Sage Mode and Kurama told him it was almost immeasurable so there was no use trying??

      Just because Ten-Tails had, doesn't mean Kaguya had. Unless I'm missing something else, this might actually be a thing this filler has clarified. Kaguya became the Ten-Tails by merging with the God Tree, and in this episode, Gamamaru says the God Tree is draining the land of natural energy. Even then, there's still something not quite natural energy about the Ten-Tails. Its Tenpenchii disrupts natural energy on a grand scale, but it's still considered just ninjutsu in the databook.

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    • There's no reason Gamamaru wouldn't be effected by the IT. The reason he knew about the event was either because he looked into the Memory Stone that records everything above ground and relearned the events or Kaguya didn't bother wiping his memory, thinking he's just an ordinary toad.

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    • Then why wasn't his hawk affected?

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    • Sarutobii2 wrote: There's no reason Gamamaru wouldn't be effected by the IT. The reason he knew about the event was either because he looked into the Memory Stone that records everything above ground and relearned the events or Kaguya didn't bother wiping his memory, thinking he's just an ordinary toad.

      Exactly what I Said 50 post above.

      Also, Kishi said that he wants others to continue his work so other media channels can be cannon too.

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    • RebornedMadara wrote:

      Sarutobii2 wrote: There's no reason Gamamaru wouldn't be effected by the IT. The reason he knew about the event was either because he looked into the Memory Stone that records everything above ground and relearned the events or Kaguya didn't bother wiping his memory, thinking he's just an ordinary toad.

      Exactly what I Said 50 post above.

      Also, Kishi said that he wants others to continue his work so other media channels can be canon too.

      except not the anime obviously.

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    • A 3 episode filler elaborating the background of Kaguya and her sons is actually great. Nice and brief but also elaborative as well. So anyone complaining about the fillers, think long-term. Would you rather that vague background in the manga remain vague?

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    • Cloudtheavenger wrote: A 3 episode filler elaborating the background of Kaguya and her sons is actually great. Nice and brief but also elaborative as well. So anyone complaining about the fillers, think long-term. Would you rather that vague background in the manga remain vague?

      Actually I wouldn't mind at all. The filler so far has left me with more questions than answers.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Seelentau wrote: The Ten-Tails doesn't have loads of natural energy, it manipulates the natural energy of the trees and seas.

      What QuakingStar said. Also Hamura, who never had contact with the Ten-Tails chakra was able to use TSBs, meaning he also has some form of Senjutsu chakra

      That still doesn't mean that Kaguya has Senjutsu chakra. Natural energy is not the same as Senjutsu chakra and the TT, who gives of the same vibes as the natural energy around it, is not made of Senjutsu chakra or natural energy.

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    • Well, TT jinchuuriki become able to use Six Paths Senjutsu, so there has to be something to it.

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    • C'mon, guys, stop splitting the hairs with every unconsistency we can find in this filler. Yeah, there are such things and they surely deserve proper debates, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they immediately drag down all the episodes and make them completely worthless and not enjoyable. It's obviously false. As for me, the main benefit of this filler is that the episodes eventually show the ancient Ootsutsuki family not as some almost voiceless gods or messiahs of the shinobi history, but more closely to humans, with emotions, ambitions and desires of their own. We didn't know much about their actual personalities of these Ootsutsukis, nor their regular life. Now we got to this thanks to the anime. That's the main piece manga wasn't able to show, just let the anime finish the deal. And I'm completely fine if Indra/Asura will get such episodes of their own, since we have seen neither their normal life and growth, nor their true personalities or battle skills yet.

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    • It seems Kaguya mostly kept Hagoromo and Hamura in dark about their alien ancestry and her origins...

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    • Sarutobii2 wrote: There's no reason Gamamaru wouldn't be effected by the IT. The reason he knew about the event was either because he looked into the Memory Stone that records everything above ground and relearned the events or Kaguya didn't bother wiping his memory, thinking he's just an ordinary toad.

      The toads have both crystals that can see across massive distances and wells that instantly transport toads across massive distances. It's not exactly implausible that the toads had spacetime techniques themselves. Not to mention, it's never stated whether animals even have chakra, so it's both plausible they use nature energy as their "Chakra", and thus use such techniques.


      It's pointless to ask for logic in summons, because it doesn't exist. Apparently any toad can be summoned with the contract yet in a split second it can be determined who is summoned. The Sage Mode arc basically showed that no control exists over when you're summoned. So which is it?

      Furthermore, regarding Senjutsu, nature energy exists everywhere, so it must also exist within animals and humans. Therefore, at any point in time, a human is automatically balancing the three energies: spiritual and physical energy exist on their own (since humans have stamina and experience, aka the source of those energies). Ninjutsu is about molding energies, creating chakra, in a sense it's analogous to water being made from processing hydrogen and oxygen (also in the sense that water has properties neither source has). Therefore it should be possible to use Nature energy on it's own. It's never established whether nature energy is just that, or whether water has water-nature-energy and air has air-nature-energy, and whether it can be nature transformed itself. But the Juubi is a mass of natural energy, so clearly it can be used on it's own.

      Senjutsu is about mixing all three energies to create something beyond either: Nature energy has clear risks (petrification) and clear gains (increased resilience, reserves, healing). Ninjutsu has lower power, but also great versatility and negligible risks. Sage mode uses Ninjutsu to alleviate the risks (Physical and spiritual energy suppresses petrification), while having the best of both worlds, and so is clearly superior to either.

      Further points: Six Paths Chibaku Tensei clearly splits the Juubi into the Gedo and a chakra entity. This means that there are no two versions of Kaguya's sealing: Hagoromo and Hamura Chibaku Tensei'd her and Hagoromo became jinchuriki of the chakra mass. Hagoromo summoned the Gedo to survive biju extraction, which explains why Rinnegan can summon it at all, as it makes no sense otherwise.

      The Shinju can both come from space and yet grow from spilled blood. It's not a mutually exclusive statement. Similar things exist for Hagoromo (white eyes are the natural color of the otsutsuki race), Hagoromo was never stated to be born with Rinnegan and Sharingan is it's base form, so none of that contradicts the Manga.

      Kaguya enslaved nations, yes. We haven't seen what went on in the entire world, unlike Madara's IT which clearly showed the major nations affected. She put people back in her lands and rules them, but since we don't know the exact geographical location, we can't say for sure whether she rules the world. Especially since logically, the SP CT that sealed her probably turned a continent worth of mass (if not more) into a moon (and thus, left an ocean). For all we know she ruled a piece of land that's now part of the moon.

      As to Gamamaru, it's not clear what Kaguya did here, so why automatically assume it's a contradiction? They were all clearly unaware that he was sentient, so if she put back the wildlife, would she 1: Bother to wipe their memories and 2: wouldn't Gamamaru regain all memories upon seeing the Memory Stone, even if his memory was wiped?

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    • Seelentau wrote: That still doesn't mean that Kaguya has Senjutsu chakra. Natural energy is not the same as Senjutsu chakra and the TT, who gives of the same vibes as the natural energy around it, is not made of Senjutsu chakra or natural energy.

      Then why does becoming a TTJ automatically gives you access to Senjutsu? The TT may not have Senjutsu chakra, but it sure does grant whoever uses its power Senjutsu chakra. And it is that same chakra that Hagoromo and Hamura were born with, thus allowing them to use TSBs without becoming TTJs

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    • It's not the same chakra, because they were born before Kaguya merged with the Shinju.

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    • Seelentau wrote: It's not the same chakra, because they were born before Kaguya merged with the Shinju.

      But they were born after Kaguya ate the Chakra Fruit, though. Why do you think TTJ's have a similar apparel to Hagoromo?

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    • What does that have to do with the Shinju's use of Senjutsu chakra?

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    • Seelentau wrote: What does that have to do with the Shinju's use of Senjutsu chakra?

      I think he means to say that there is a much deeper connection between the Juubi and Hagoromo than what is implied by this filler. This deep connection is made clear by TTJs, who not only acquire Six Paths Senjutsu but also acquire Hagromo's apparel and TSB staff. What this implies is that the Six Paths Senjutsu has its source in the Juubi, and so, in the God Tree itself. But here in the anime, we see Hagoromo training in Mount Myoboku. This implies that his senjutsu is no different from Naruto's senjutsu. Yet we see that Six Paths Senjutsu is inherently different and vastly superior to normal senjutsu. This has created some confusion and contradictions.

      Because the toad senjutsu isn't something that is inherent in a person's chakra body. Yet TTJs acquire Six Paths Senjutsu, which implies that it is inherent in the Juubi at least. So the question is how did something like the toad senjutsu turn into Six Paths Senjutsu that can be inherited once someone becomes a TTJ.

      And @UltimaDude's point about the TTJ acquiring Hagoromo's robes implies that Hagoromo's inherent power is so closely tied to the Juubi that even his clothes are acquired by later TTJs. So it stands to reason that Six Paths Senjutsu also must also have been inherent to Hagoromo, instead of it being acquired from the toads. I think that was his point.

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    • The Ten-Tails' jinchūriki acquiring Hagoromo's appearance really raises a lot of questions when you think about it. Are they literally turning into Hagoromo, meaning his appearance somehow imprinted on the Ten-Tails' chakra? Or are they just turning into something that happens to be similar to Hagoromo — acquiring the same type of power he was apparently born with, but not actually his power? Basically, are they turning into the Sage of Six Paths or a Sage of Six Paths?

      Though honestly I really doubt there are any coherent answers to that question or how any of this natural energy/Six Paths Senjutsu stuff works. I wouldn't be surprised if we've put way more thought into this than Kishimoto himself did.

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    • @BakumatsuWarrior Ding! Ding! Ding! Thanks for perfectly elaborating my point. I lost my way of words, so explaining things is rather difficult for me

      BeyondRed wrote: The Ten-Tails' jinchūriki acquiring Hagoromo's appearance really raises a lot of questions when you think about it. Are they literally turning into Hagoromo, meaning his appearance somehow imprinted on the Ten-Tails' chakra? Or are they just turning into something that happens to be similar to Hagoromo — acquiring the same type of power he was apparently born with, but not actually his power? Basically, are they turning into the Sage of Six Paths or a Sage of Six Paths?

      I'm pretty sure the person is just turning into something like Hagoromo due to obtaining a power similar to that of the power Hagoromo was born with

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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      Cloudtheavenger wrote: A 3 episode filler elaborating the background of Kaguya and her sons is actually great. Nice and brief but also elaborative as well. So anyone complaining about the fillers, think long-term. Would you rather that vague background in the manga remain vague?

      Actually I wouldn't mind at all. The filler so far has left me with more questions than answers.

      There's still more fillers to come. Keep your questions on hold until they are done.

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    • My point is that even if the Shinju is using senjutsu, it doesn't mean that Kaguya did so before and passed it on to her sons.

      But yeah, basically what BeyondRed said. We're putting way too much thought into all of this, as usual.

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    • Since Naruto had 'Hagoromo-like' apparel due to his kyubi chakra cloak even before any Hagoromo buff/boost/blessing stuff whatever and even Toneri has the magatama tattooed on his neck, I think it's just artistic thing and there really isn't a lore connection in it.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Then why wasn't his hawk affected?

      It's called an error.

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    • An error that wasn't fixed in DB4, Tankobon, or author statements?? Idk about that..

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    • QuakingStar wrote: An error that wasn't fixed in DB4, Tankobon, or author statements?? Idk about that..

      Simple: Garuda does not have a brain! >.<

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    • BerserkerPhantom wrote:

      QuakingStar wrote: An error that wasn't fixed in DB4, Tankobon, or author statements?? Idk about that..

      Simple: Garuda does not have a brain! >.<

      Of course it has an a brain. Obviously, the reason Garuda wasn't affected is because it's an Edo Tensei.

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    • I think the three legendary places are in different dimensions just like Kamui dimension and not in this world. In ch408 Fukasaku must have meant that it would take a month to reach on foot to access Mount Muoboku if we know a secret route (portal), otherwise it would be impossible to find. Because the summons are in different place they are not affected by Infinite Tsukuyomi imo.

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    • I give this episode a 5/5.

      Hagoromo having a sharingan makes sense because:

      1. His sharingan obviously eventually transforms into a Rinnegan since mixing a pure Sharingan with Otsutsuki Chakra grants one a Rinnegan (as seen with Sasuke). With Hagoromo it seems rather gradual.

      2. Hamura started off with a Byakugan. By having his Byakugan and his Otsutsuki Chakra, it eventually transformed into a Tenseigan, just like Toneri. This process proves that the way the Byakugan and Sharingan evolve is related.

      You have to give some props to Hagoromo for unlocking a 3 tomoe sharingan straightaway, though.

      Also, we know another way to unlock the Rinnegan is to mix Indra and Ashura's chakra. I'm sure if Hamura had 2 sons, a way to unlock the Tenseigan would be mixing their chakra.

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    • I believe that before Garuda was summoned by Sasuke he was trapped in the Infinite Tsukoyomi but once he was summoned the Rinngegan/Sasuke's influence broke him out of the jutsu.

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    • Gmanis41 wrote: I believe that before Garuda was summoned by Sasuke he was trapped in the Infinite Tsukoyomi but once he was summoned the Rinngegan/Sasuke's influence broke him out of the jutsu.

      Or......it's just another of those convenient plotholes Kishi throws around from time to time.

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    • Bleacheria wrote: You have to give some props to Hagoromo for unlocking a 3 tomoe sharingan straightaway, though.

      We've pretty much only seen kids awaken Sharingan and they matured it within their teens. Hagoromo is around twenty here, why wouldn't adolescents awaken a fully matured form when they undergo it's requirements> I don't see it as unique, though he's the first shown doing it.


      As to Senjutsu, doesn't it make sense that Kaguya absorbed the Shinju (a vast repository of nature energy) to acquire Senjutsu herself? Hagoromo then absorbed half the Juubi to be it's Jinchuriki, which is then the point that he acquires Six Paths Senjutsu.

      We already know exceptions exist to Infinite Tsukuyome (including Edo Tensei, and Sasuke's rinnegan), so why can't his hawk be immune via Rinnegan extension. Especially since he apparently summoned it without blood, which is a Rinnegan power.

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    • ^ In the manga maybe, but in the anime Sasuke bited his thumb.

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    • Seelentau wrote: My point is that even if the Shinju is using senjutsu, it doesn't mean that Kaguya did so before and passed it on to her sons.

      But yeah, basically what BeyondRed said. We're putting way too much thought into all of this, as usual.

      But the Chakra Fruit came from the Shinju, meaning it also contained Senjutsu chakra

      You can't really blame us, lol

      Elveonora wrote: Since Naruto had 'Hagoromo-like' apparel due to his kyubi chakra cloak even before any Hagoromo buff/boost/blessing stuff whatever and even Toneri has the magatama tattooed on his neck, I think it's just artistic thing and there really isn't a lore connection in it.

      Kurama, being the Nine-Tails, is the closest to the TT, meaning he has chakra that is the most similar ,out of the 9 Bijuus, to the TT. So it makes sense why Naruto had 'Hagoromo-like' apparel. Toneri obtained a power similar to Hamura's, which could explain to magatama markings on his neck

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    • Cloudtheavenger wrote: A 3 episode filler elaborating the background of Kaguya and her sons is actually great. Nice and brief but also elaborative as well. So anyone complaining about the fillers, think long-term. Would you rather that vague background in the manga remain vague?

      Its Actually 5 Episodes Because It Goes Onto Elaborate On Indra And Ashura's Backgrounds Too.

      Bleacheria wrote: I give this episode a 5/5.

      Hagoromo having a sharingan makes sense because:

      1. His sharingan obviously eventually transforms into a Rinnegan since mixing a pure Sharingan with Otsutsuki Chakra grants one a Rinnegan (as seen with Sasuke). With Hagoromo it seems rather gradual.

      2. Hamura started off with a Byakugan. By having his Byakugan and his Otsutsuki Chakra, it eventually transformed into a Tenseigan, just like Toneri. This process proves that the way the Byakugan and Sharingan evolve is related.

      You have to give some props to Hagoromo for unlocking a 3 tomoe sharingan straightaway, though.

      Also, we know another way to unlock the Rinnegan is to mix Indra and Ashura's chakra. I'm sure if Hamura had 2 sons, a way to unlock the Tenseigan would be mixing their chakra.

      Actually Rinnegan Is Acquired Via Sharingan And Hagoromo's Chakra, As It Was Stated That Mixing Indra And Ashura's Chakra Recreates Hagoromo's Chakra.

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    • I meant the TT, not the Shinju. The Shinju is just a tree, obviously^^

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    • Bob1200 wrote: Actually Rinnegan Is Acquired Via Sharingan And Hagoromo's Chakra, As It Was Stated That Mixing Indra And Ashura's Chakra Recreates Hagoromo's Chakra.

      Technically it was never confirmed by Hagoromo that the Sharingan is required to awaken the Rinnegan, that was just Kabuto's assumption. But of course it is a logical conclusion, especially given the latest filler episode.

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    • JouXIII wrote: So, Kaguya's IT did affect the whole world... Which means Gamamaru shouldn't be even talking with Hagoromo and Hamura.

      Also, Hagoromo getting Sharingan... I'm pretty iffy about it.

      Then again, anime-only stuff(fillers and "extensions" of scenes from manga) are about as canon as Rock Lee-spinoff, so not really surprised Studio Pierrot does something like this...

      Mount Myōboku is probably one of those places that has some sort of shielding from the technique. Sasuke was able to summon a bird that obviously wasn't trapped in the technique after all.

      The fact that he got the Sharingan is perfectly logical as he does not possess Byakugan, and his son has it. He's pretty much the son with the most relation to the Rinne Sharingan. Hagoromo and Hamura are probably divisions of Kaguya's power just as Indra and Ashura are Hagoromo's power divided into two.

      The extensions of Manga scenes are quite likely to be approved as canon by Kishimoto, rather than dismissed as non-canon.

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    • The Reason Behind Hagoromo's Sharingan Instead Of Byakugan Could Possibly Be As Simple As He's The First Born, Just Like How Indra Was The First Born Of Hagoromo, lol.

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    • The way I see it, Hagoromo got mostly a share of Kaguya's power post-chakra fruit consumption (Sharingan), while Hamura inherited mostly Kaguya's pre-chakra fruit power (Byakugan) and by unknown means, they evolved Sharingan into Rinnegan and Byakugan into Tenseigan eventually.

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    • Elveonora wrote: The way I see it, Hagoromo got mostly a share of Kaguya's power post-chakra fruit consumption (Sharingan), while Hamura inherited mostly Kaguya's pre-chakra fruit power (Byakugan) and by unknown means, they evolved Sharingan into Rinnegan and Byakugan into Tenseigan eventually.

      Nice theory but what would you consider the eyes hagomoro had before the sharingan, a mere mutation(due to being a hybrid) or what

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    • Hamura has senjutsu now according to the edit made recently on his profile.... im getting confused

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    • MayowaMakinde wrote: Hamura has senjutsu now according to the edit made recently on his profile.... im getting confused

      That's because the databook entry for Six Paths — Chibaku Tensei states that it's a technique only those who have the Six Paths Senjutsu can use.

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    • MayowaMakinde wrote: nice theory but what would you consider the eyes hagomoro had before the sharingan, a mere mutation(due to being a hybrid) or what

      Normal Otsutsuki (alien race) eyes.

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    • Seeing as the next episode seems to include the rest of Black Zetsu's story time, we're probably only going to get half an episode or so devoted to Hagoromo learning senjutsu and the conflict between Kaguya and her sons. Hopefully we at least get to see her become Ten-Tails and take the White Zetsu inside of her or whatever. Also, calling it now that the anime is going to imply the red seal on Hagoromo's forehead is his equivalent of Sage Mode pigmentation, seeing as he has it when he seals his mother in the manga. We likely won't get to see how Hamura obtained his own Truth-Seeking Balls (or the Tenseigan), so maybe the one he used against the Ten-Tails was one of Hagoromo's?

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    • Elveonora
      Elveonora removed this reply because:
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      12:47, May 24, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • There's Supposed To Be 3 More Episodes, The Next Episode Covers Kaguya's Sealing, Then The 2 After Are Indra And Ashura's Backgrounds, lol.

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    • Those 2 episodes you are talking about are marked as Canon. I don't think it will be Indra and Ashura's background just yet. I could be wrong, anyway my source is animefillerlist.

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    • Well Someone Said The Indra And Ashura Background Is Supposed To Happen In June, lol. And I Don't Trust Some Random Website About Naruto Canon, lol.

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    • Well those two episodes are only in the first two weeks, there are still 3 other unnamed episodes in the month. We'll probably get them late June.

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    • I wonder if the next episode is also going to be as controversial as the latest 2.

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    • It's nice the animators showed that Gamamaru was alive even during Kaguya's era. I find it odd that Hamura got the Byakugan, but Hagoromo got the Sharingan without it evolving from the Byakugan. Also, I wonder why Hamura didn't train to learn senjutsu too.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: It's nice the animators showed that Gamamaru was alive even during Kaguya's era. I find it odd that Hamura got the Byakugan, but Hagoromo got the Sharingan without it evolving from the Byakugan. Also, I wonder why Hamura didn't train to learn senjutsu too.

      The Last confirmed it already, as well as the Manga. What's so odd about that?

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    • Nothing odd about Hamura getting the Byakugan, but that Hamura got it but Hagoromo did. Did you even read my comment carefully?

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    • He Did, It Just Wasn't Shown.

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    • Speculation without solid proof. Just like Boruto "activating" his eye, which people speculate to be the Byakugan without it even having veins or him saying "Byakugan", which is normally what those who have it say when activating it.

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    • It isn't Byakugan. I think the eye went blind and he can get eyesight back into it when he activates his tattoo seal thing is all it is.

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    • Hagoromo didn't have Byakugan.

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    • Jawnaphino wrote: Those 2 episodes you are talking about are marked as Canon. I don't think it will be Indra and Ashura's background just yet. I could be wrong, anyway my source is animefillerlist.

      Marked as canon? So can you show me something that indicates that Kishi in some way wrote those episodes, or I'll have to believe this is simply your head canon.

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    • Canon as in it is based off the manga. Meaning they will be back to the fight with Kaguya. I've used the site for a while now and it has been fairly accurate on all anime I watch.

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    • Still it's a filler, although I must admit that's a nice-made one. It's not based on the manga because there was no mention of Kaguya's background in BZ manga tale, nor that of Hagoromo/Hamura. Even the battle against Kaguya (Ten-Tails) wasn't actually shown, only the outcome was told. In te manga, BZ just spoke about the most significant events and facts in the shinobi history Naruto/Sasuke have never known about (i.e. Kaguya's true nature and manipulations to revive her).

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    • Listen, I've been using that site for years and it hasn't lied to me yet. I said "fairly accurate" earlier because I'm acknowledging the fact that any source could be wrong from time to time. Ultimately, believe your own experience. From what I know, tomorrow's episode will be the last filler, then we'll be getting back to the fight with Naruto vs. Kaguya. Take my info with a grain of salt, if you must, but we'll all see in a few weeks whether or not this information was correct.

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    • So slightly off topic, but does anyone know when Kishimoto decided to add aliens to his story? I have to say that it was pretty confusing and weird. I'm glad Pierrot is trying to make a bit more sense of it, but seriously what was Kishi thinking?

      And I was under the impression that the tree was growing on Earth before (something about it soaking up years of blood from human wars), but it does kind of make more sense for it to have been alien. I kind of think it would make even more sense if they said Kaguya had planted it to harvest Chakra, but we'll see where this goes.

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    • Also, I wonder what the connections are between Hagoromo's circle mark on his forehead and Hashirama's circle mark on his forehead while in Sage Mode. Perhaps it's a sign of mastery over Senjutsu.

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    • In an interview, Kishimoto said that he had created lots of in depth lore for the Otsutsuki, but in the end it was decided that he won't elaborate on it, so apparently there was actually some thought put into the thing, but he won't write about it.

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    • I don't know if I'm happy about that or not. On one hand I'd love to know everything I can about everything in Naruto. On the other, having some mystery keeps things interesting and exciting too. What does anyone else think about this?

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    • Jawnaphino wrote: I don't know if I'm happy about that or not. On one hand I'd love to know everything I can about everything in Naruto. On the other, having some mystery keeps things interesting and exciting too. What does anyone else think about this?

      I´m the kind of persona that´s OK with every single aspect of a story not being explained.

      Re: Ootsutsuki backstory

      I think the main reason why Kishimoto didn´t end up writing what he might have elaborated at that point would have been mainly due to time constraint (he very likely might have received some warnings from Jump´s higher ups about how many chapter left until ending the manga around the time Kaguya debuted)

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    • I hope I don't sound like I'm complaining or anything, but the final bit with Kaguya did seem a bit rushed. I thought it was well done, nevertheless.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Just like life on Earth evolved to require oxygen for survival.

      But not all life require oxygen to live, though

      You need chakra :). In the shinobi world I think you need that to live...

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    • Lulcielid wrote: (he very likely might have received some warnings from Jump´s higher ups about how many chapter left until ending the manga around the time Kaguya debuted)

      It was Kishimoto who pushed for an ending, not Jump. If it was Jump's choice, we'd still be going. It seems Kishimoto aimed for 700 chapters and did what he had to do to get there.

      As to Otsutsuki and Aliens, it seems he got inspired by other folklore about people from the moon (which seems to be more common than i initially thought) and so it evolved into that.

      Kaguya IS based upon a princess-from-the-moon story.

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    • Elveonora wrote: I wonder if the next episode is also going to be as controversial as the latest 2.

      The creature at the end of preview is very likely Black Zetsu, and that means the whole fight Kaguya vs sons will be covered already. Quiet fast I would say.

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    • I think it's pretty clear that the being at the end of preview is actually BZ. It's exactly his primary form shown in the manga. Also, the title "Fabricated Past" already implies on BZ's manipulations of the shinobi history.

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    • A FANDOM user
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