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  • Squinty97
    Squinty97 closed this thread because:
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    17:13, February 25, 2018

    Madara has both Rinnegan and the Rinne Sharingan, Hagoromo has the Susano'o from the anime

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    • Madara wins IMO.He has more expirence and more power than hagoromo.

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    • The same Hagoromo who only half of his chakra was able to empower Naruto and Sasuke into being able to double team Madara into near defeat?(until he escaped to get his other eye, then subsequently got raped by Black Zetsu) Yeah Hagoromo would win in the end.

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    • Sasuke+naruto=hagoromo,madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>naruto+sasuke.So hag loses.

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    • lol Naruto and sasuke don't equal hago.. they have half of his chakra each, but not his powers. veeery different. and madara was weaker than them when they were fighting him together. hago wins.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol Naruto and sasuke don't equal hago.. they have half of his chakra each, but not his powers.

      Naruto and Sasuke don't even have half his power. Hagoromo has two rinnegan (more than Sasuke) and has the full Juubi (more than Naruto). He's also the Rinnegan's true owner and has been for far longer than Madara, and was born with all his power.

      Hagoromo would win this.

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    • Madara has more expirence and power.

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    • lol madara lived only 20 years of his life fighting (from when he was 10 to when he was 30), and the rest in a cave, secluded from literally everything. and hago lived more than a thousand years, while fighting the strongest in the universe at not even his strongest form. who has more knowledge and experience now?

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    • Hag didnt fight,u dont have a proof he did.

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    • lol how would u even know if I had proof or not? and even if I didn't have proof that he fought, u don't proof that he didn't.

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    • In peacefull era?

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    • so? doesn't mean he didn't train, now, does it?

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    • Training and fighting your entire life are 2 diffrent things.

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    • lol that's what a lot characters have done in the Narutoverse, and some of them are pretty much kage lvl.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol madara lived only 20 years of his life fighting (from when he was 10 to when he was 30), and the rest in a cave, secluded from literally everything. and hago lived more than a thousand years, while fighting the strongest in the universe at not even his strongest form. who has more knowledge and experience now?

      Hagoromo didn't live for more than a thousand years. where are you getting that info from? His chakra was able to transmigrate through time, but he didn't live for a thousand years.

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    • @Lorenzo i just wanted to correct u,no need to go on defensive^^.Edit: who was the guy that kishimoto didnt know how to kill :P

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    • Context. He didn't know how to kill Rinne Sharingan Madara, but guess what?? He figured it out later and used it on Kaguya instead.. it was Six Paths Chibaku Tensei.

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    • Every character has weakness,even the strongest ones have one,however madara does not-Kishi.Authors words.

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    • Listen, the context of that statement.. do you know what it was??

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Listen, the context of that statement.. do you know what it was??

      XD that madara dosent have any weaknesses,but plot.

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    • No, the context is Rinne Sharingan TTJ Madara. Without Six Paths Chibaku Tensei he can't be beaten. Same thing with Kaguya. That was the context. Come on man, I know you're more sensible than that.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No, the context is Rinne Sharingan TTJ Madara. Without Six Paths Chibaku Tensei he can't be beaten. Same thing with Kaguya. That was the context. Come on man, I know you're more sensible than that.

      Madara can be beaten in other ways. It's just that naruto and sasuke would never survive long enough to carry out these plans.

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    • I know that.I did not say hag is a fodder.It would be close but i see madara winning.Edit:Can hag even use SPCT alone?

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    • c'mon hagoromo has the creation of all things, he just can create a tool imagining and saying "this tool can seal jubidara" and eventualy it will be created thus sealing madara

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    • In your dreams.

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    • @kakashisologod if you don't like the fact that hago can beat madara's ass badly you can just say it, you don't have to be so spiritually linked with madara ^^

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    • U have to show proof that he can do that,not act so childlishly like u do for naruto :)

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: I know that.I did not say hag is a fodder.It would be close but i see madara winning.Edit:Can hag even use SPCT alone?

      He was able to give that power to Naruto and Sasuke on his own. All he has to do to win, is touch Madara and he can cast the technique. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to: the tags were just a means to give the technique to Naruto and Sasuke.

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    • Touching madara is already hard.^^

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Touching madara is already hard.^^

      And touching hagoromo is going to be easy?

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: U have to show proof that he can do that,not act so childlishly like u do for naruto :)

      hago created his tools by this technique, he can also create one powerfull enough to seal TTJ

      what did you mean by childish (also i'm 9 yrs old and you should be careful with the way speaking because i may not understand everything you write, and what else can you expect from a girl like me)

      all things i said before for the creation of all things, firstly have been discussed by me and Omega64 (the most accurate name in naruto answers)

      do you want me to post a link for you to read them and to rethink about it :)

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    • Dude he wouldev had been named solo god,not god who was equal to his brother,who had byakugan and tenseigan.If hag could really do that hamura wouldnt had been equal to him.What i expect u to understand is that madara isnt weak and is defenetly WAY stronger than naruto.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Dude he wouldev had been named solo god,not god who was equal to his brother,who had byakugan and tenseigan.If hag could really do that hamura wouldnt had been equal to him.What i expect u to understand is that madara isnt weak and is defenetly WAY stronger than naruto.

      (if that's directed to me) this thread isn't about naruto and i didn't write about naruto here

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    • wait, wait, wait... how in the freaking hell is madara actually beat hago again? I think I missed that part.. nope.. im pretty sure part doesn't exist.. infinite tsukuyomi? nah. doesn't work against susanoo infused with sp chakra. just by having more chakra? pretty sure both can have the same quantity. experience? in fighting as an ems user, yes. in fighting as an ttj, tsb user, and senjutsu. no. who has bigger susanoo? hago. who knows rinne better? hago. who uses senjutsu since he was 18? hago. do I need to continue?

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    • Sasukes susano was special thus it blocked IT,we cant know if SP chakra is needed because BZ didnt give any fruther comment,so dont make assumptions.Hag was also never said to have bigger than TTJ madara,before u say look at the wiki,i will say that TTJ madara never showed using susano.Expirence madara defenetly wins.Amount of chakra?Hag is missing half of TT while madara without TT has less chakra than hag.Probably the same amount.U are right hag was the master of rinnegan i will give him that.This is indeed a close match-up.I see this going in more of a madaras favor,only by a little

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Sasukes susano was special thus it blocked IT,we cant know if SP chakra is needed because BZ didnt give any fruther comment,so dont make assumptions.Hag was also never said to have bigger than TTJ madara,before u say look at the wiki,i will say that TTJ madara never showed using susano.Expirence madara defenetly wins.Amount of chakra?Hag is missing half of TT while madara without TT has less chakra than hag.Probably the same amount.U are right hag was the master of rinnegan i will give him that.This is indeed a close match-up.I see this going in more of a madaras favor,only by a little

      the only thing that bothers me in ur comment, is that u said that sasuke's susanoo was special. he had the same chakra as indra, who was hago's son, and had half of his chakra as well (all this before sasuke 'died'). after he 'died', he still got hago's chakra, as well as his own from his rinne.

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    • He had special tomoe rinnegan

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    • jj Hago>jjMadara

      Sealed GG

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    • If it was easy as that sasuke and naruto wouldnt had needed help to defeat kaguya.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: He had special tomoe rinnegan

      lol and that might have given him ameno, but momo could absorb almost anything that had chakra added to it, and use it for himself, as well as madara who could use limbo. that seriously points out to hago having an special rinne himself. and the only way that sasuke was able to block IT was cuz of the transparency of the susanoo, which filtered the light in some way. and susanoo is made of chakra, so most susanoo users with sp chakra should be able to avoid IT. imo. every single KG, or dojutsu in this matter, seems to be unique after a few years of usage, varying to clan, circumstances, and fighting style. so sasuke having an "special rinne" is nothing but an opinion, imo of course (lol seems kinda redundant). he had 6 tomoe and only one rinne, while momo had had two red rinnes in each palms of his hands, and madara had two in his eye sockets and could use limbo. this is used in ms, and ems as well. think bout it.

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    • Ameno is his own rinnegan ability.Tomoes give him MS ablitys.

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    • Like Kakashisologod said, Amenotejikara and his Space-time tech are his own unique Rinnegan abilities, the same way Madara has Limbo and Tengai Shinsei. Same pattern as the Mangekyo, each user gets two unique techs for each Rinnegan eye it seems. Sasuke's Mangekyo abilities are in his Rinnegan.

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    • Hamura and Hagoromo sealed kaguya without having any tailed beast enhancements. Naruto and sasuke needed the help of obito, kakashi, sakura and plot armor to seal kaguya. Only naruto was able to keep up with kaguya in that fight because of his tailed beast enhancements. Sasuke only managed to land one hit and that was after naruto chopped off her arm and she was running low on chakra.

      This is the difference in power between Hamura, Hagoromo and naruto and sasuke. Hagoromo then becomes the ten tail's jinchuriki after sealing kaguya which increased his power exponentially, meaning theres no way madara stands a chance.

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    • @Lorenzo u are forgetting the fact that madara totaly destroyed naruto and sasuke.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: @Lorenzo u are forgetting the fact that madara totaly destroyed naruto and sasuke.

      that's why he was smashed by naruto even without his chakra cloak

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    • He wasnt smashed whatsoever.HE was weakend by guys kick.

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    • but nothing prevented him from absorbing lava rasenshuriken

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    • funny thing i didn't found any chapters of jj madara smashing naruto or sasuke oh well hahahaha

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    • Madara was holding back lol.

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    • naruto and sasuke were the biggest threats there, there's no reason for him to hold back against ttj threats LOOOOL, but he just couldn't do more

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    • He said himself that adults shouldnt fight seriously against children,heck he couldev had absorbed lava shuriken if he wanted to.

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    • i doubt that naruto and sasuke were normal children and madara was aware of that

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    • Still children...

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    • OH c'mon you just can't accept that madara wasn't able to take on two "children" and will never be able to even if he's resurracted

      plus this thread is abuot hago beating madara's ass badly and not about two "children" beating his ass badly so i don't see a reason to countinue arguing

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    • They were 17 and that is def not children.

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    • Compared to him,they are.@Uzumaki1naruto CAN U STOP hyping naruto and sasuke?!?!?!?

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    • @Kakashi ur saying the reason for madara "holding" back its because they were children,didn't madara killed sasuke with a sword?

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: He said himself that adults shouldnt fight seriously against children

      A statement he made to break Onoki's spirit.

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    • lol isn't onoki like his age? and madara did kinda, a little bit, get his ass kinda handed to him by no-cloak spsm Naruto, when he had just healed. he could've used shinra tensei, susanoo ribcage, chakra absorbtion, tsb, and something else just to stop naruto's attack in the scene. pretty sure Naruto using the cloak, which doubled his power, and sasuke's help, were enough to utterly kill juudara imo

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    • @Lorenzo see?He didnt use anything,but limbo.

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    • u mean me, or the other Lorenzo? and I don't know what u meant by ur last comment, kakashi.

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    • Yes you,my friend.What i meant by my comment was he didnt want to fight at full power and was shocked how much of a boost naruto gain.

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    • so? like, really, that's no reason to get ur ass kicked. just cuz ur going easy on ur attacks and shit, doesn't mean that u can leave ur guard open. basic ninja-shit that madara should, and already knows. for real man, just stop. kakashi was surprised by naruto's and sakura's boost at the first shippuden fight against him that we get to see, but did he get hit? nope. and coming back to madara, when he was an edo and was only using ems, and gaara held him with his sand onto the ground, while Naruto got real fucking close, and almost landed a massive rasegan on madara, did he get hit by it? not. he used his rinne to absorb it. its literally the same occasion. both madara's were at a weaker form, but could still dodge, counter, or any other thing u can name. why did the edo madara not get hit then, if he was fighting against "children", and wasn't at full power, jusu like the other ttj madara that went against spsm naruto? explain.

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    • Like i said he didnt absorb it.Simple as that.

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    • oh, so I guess my argument is correct. yay

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    • We are both correct and incorrect at the same time.

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    • good. I like being right, even though im wrong lol

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    • Wouldev had loved if we saw hago fight when he became TTJ.

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    • lol he would kill though. hey, I made some new threads. can u check them out?

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    • I will.Check mine too.

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    • cool

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Compared to him,they are.@Uzumaki1naruto CAN U STOP hyping naruto and sasuke?!?!?!?

      when you stop hyping madara so badly

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    • lol I wanted to say that too.

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    • Oh please,Kishimoto himself didnt know how to kill madara.Naruto wasnt called invincible in any way.

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    • lol madara was, but its seems that since black zesty killed him, black zetsu> spsm Naruto lol

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    • Sigh.It was PLOT.BZ<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SPSM naruto.

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    • sorry. its just that I was thinking of raditz, so I got all confused, u know

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    • Well madara also thought BZ was on his side too.If it was 1vs1 match madara would stomp.

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    • lol madara would be running at black zetsu at full speed, and zetsu just disappears into the ground, comes out behind madara AND.... uses 1000 years of death.... zestu wins lol

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol madara would be running at black zetsu at full speed, and zetsu just disappears into the ground, comes out behind madara AND.... uses 1000 years of death.... zestu wins lol

      Sooo kakashi>Madara XD.

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    • well, BZ's so old, he probably invented 1000 years of death (maybe he named it that, cuz he's a 1000 y/o)

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    • So Hagoromo can endow immense power, summon the souls of Kage, and can use creation of all things while he was dead. Considering all of that while dead, Hagoromo wins, Hagoromo just needs to touch Madara since he has the sealing jutsu. Hagoromo could just summon Kage or other ninja to empower or help him, he could summon the tailed beasts, Hagoromo easily wins this

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    • That would be hag+help vs madara LOL.Hag loses .

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: That would be hag+help vs madara LOL.Hag loses .

      That's still his power, even then, he himself made the six paths chibaku Tensei, he would just need to touch Madara to seal him

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    • Andy Roque wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: That would be hag+help vs madara LOL.Hag loses .

      That's still his power, even then, he himself made the six paths chibaku Tensei, he would just need to touch Madara to seal him

      SP CT is his own power true.BUT Bijjus are inside both of them so he cant really summon them.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Andy Roque wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: That would be hag+help vs madara LOL.Hag loses .

      That's still his power, even then, he himself made the six paths chibaku Tensei, he would just need to touch Madara to seal him

      SP CT is his own power true.BUT Bijjus are inside both of them so he cant really summon them.

      The tailed beasts are just an option, he has so many options to defeat Madara, I haven't even touched on his tools. Bashōsen, Benihisago, Kohaku no Jōhei, Bōkinjō, Shakujō, Shichiseiken, Sword of Nunoboko. All tools of his that have plenty of opportunity to kill or seal him.

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    • Hagoromo can summon tons of powerful people from the dead.. Hagoromo is simply on a level that Madara could never reach.

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    • Sword of nunboko that wasnt able to overpower sasukes and narutos sword XD.Thats totaly going to defeat madara.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Sword of nunboko that wasnt able to overpower sasukes and narutos sword XD.Thats totaly going to defeat madara.

      Good to see you no longer have an argument

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    • None of those weapons are going to seal madara,once he got rinnesharingan only SP CT is able to seal madara.

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    • We are talking about TTJ Hagoromo here right?

      Because if it is, you guys do realize that Hagoromo also needs to be sealed in order to be defeated, right?

      Also, being alive for far longer than Madara while also possessing powers of the Six Paths, he has a far more advanced understanding of his (and by extension, Madara's) abilities than Madara does. Also, considering the fact that Hagoromo (along with his brother) defeated Kaguya (a far more powerful being than Madara) with just the two of them, it's safe to say they don't come short on battle strategy from what we've seen from her abilities.

      Also, considering that Hagoromo actually possesses something capable of sealing grand beings away (SP:CT), while Madara does not, I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume Hagoromo will win.

      However if we were comparing sheer power and abilities, they are roughly near equal, with Hagoromo being slightly more powerful overall.

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    • kudos man

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    • Unlike madara hagoromo didnt absorb shinju trunk,thus he isnt immortal.Dude rinnegan users have diffrent set abilitys,he may use his better,but dosent mean he knows everything about madaras,let alone use them better.Kaguya isnt far more powerfull than madara,kishi needed plot to kill madara,kaguya got defeated in a fair fight.Once again,madara can kill hag,while hag needs to touch madara.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Unlike madara hagoromo didnt absorb shinju trunk,thus he isnt immortal.

      The trunk is part of the ten tails. Hagoromo is also TTJ, so he also has the trunk

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    • Not really,madara had TT but didnt have trunk right a way.

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    • @Kakashisologod That's because TTJ Obito seperated it from himself in order to cast IT.

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    • then why wasnt he immortal?

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    • What stops Hagoromo from just summoning all the Kage, Sasuke, Obito and the Akatsuki, then endowing them all with the six paths and just completely overpowering Madara

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    • @Kakashisologod Who says he wasn't? Last time I checked, TTJ Obito pretty much took every attack and was only defeated by taking Tailed Beasts out of him.

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    • Andy Roque wrote: What stops Hagoromo from just summoning all the Kage, Sasuke, Obito and the Akatsuki, then endowing them all with the six paths and just completely overpowering Madara

      Whats stopping madara from asking kaguya for help?See how ridicolous your logic is?

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    • since madara has rinnesharingan means he has shinju inside himself which means kaguya is inside madara

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: since madara has rinnesharingan means he has shinju inside himself which means kaguya is inside madara

      Thats his logic.He says that him summoning sasuke,obito 9 bijjus(that are inside of them)is a fair fight.

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: since madara has rinnesharingan means he has shinju inside himself which means kaguya is inside madara

      Black Zetsu needed Infinite Tsukuyome and chakra from all people in the world to revive Kaguya. TTJ Madara doesn't have Kaguya's power.

      Andy Roque wrote: What stops Hagoromo from just summoning all the Kage, Sasuke, Obito and the Akatsuki, then endowing them all with the six paths and just completely overpowering Madara

      When he empowered Naruto and Sasuke he used up his own chakra. So if he did this move, he'd be spent. so it's a stupid move.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Uzumaki1naruto wrote: since madara has rinnesharingan means he has shinju inside himself which means kaguya is inside madara

      Black Zetsu needed Infinite Tsukuyome and chakra from all people in the world to revive Kaguya. TTJ Madara doesn't have Kaguya's power.

      Andy Roque wrote: What stops Hagoromo from just summoning all the Kage, Sasuke, Obito and the Akatsuki, then endowing them all with the six paths and just completely overpowering Madara

      When he empowered Naruto and Sasuke he used up his own chakra. So if he did this move, he'd be spent. so it's a stupid move.

      i said it not to mean what you wrote, but kakashisologod said "what stops him from summoning kaguya and i said that since kaguya is ten tails + shinju and is inside madara, he can't summon her, but since she is inside madara doesn't mean that he has the same power as her (in fact madara has rinnesharingan so i think he might have the same kekkei moras as kaguya like yomotsu hirasaka etc)

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: i said it not to mean what you wrote, but kakashisologod said "what stops him from summoning kaguya and i said that since kaguya is ten tails + shinju and is inside madara, he can't summon her, but since she is inside madara doesn't mean that he has the same power as her (in fact madara has rinnesharingan so i think he might have the same kekkei moras as kaguya like yomotsu hirasaka etc)

      It doesn't matter either way. Madara has Rinne Sharingan because that's the juubi's eye. Doesn't mean he has Kaguya's other powers. In fact i think it's clear he doesn't have those powers, since they only appeared in Kaguya after chakra from people all over the world was absorbed.

      Whether he tries to manifest or summon her, it won't do any good.

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    • And i said that guys logic was just as good as mine @Uzumaki1naruto.

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    • both are immortal, by the way. madara regenerated from night guy without the trunk, even while missing half of kurama. since hago is a much more perfect ttj, his regeneration is probably way better as well.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Uzumaki1naruto wrote: i said it not to mean what you wrote, but kakashisologod said "what stops him from summoning kaguya and i said that since kaguya is ten tails + shinju and is inside madara, he can't summon her, but since she is inside madara doesn't mean that he has the same power as her (in fact madara has rinnesharingan so i think he might have the same kekkei moras as kaguya like yomotsu hirasaka etc)

      It doesn't matter either way. Madara has Rinne Sharingan because that's the juubi's eye.

      going by your logic why then obito didn't have rinnesharingan before he summoned shinju tree he had it inside himsef but didn't have rinnesharingan (madara awakened it after absorbing tree)so ...

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: going by your logic why then obito didn't have rinnesharingan before he summoned shinju tree he had it inside himsef but didn't have rinnesharingan (madara awakened it after absorbing tree)so ...

      Because the Juubi was still being restored to it's full power. He also lacked complete control. Even after he improved his grasp over the Juubi, Naruto and Sasuke could still rip out the Biju, even though Naruto's attacks against Madara did no such thing.

      Even though the Shinju he manifested was the juubi's final form, it still needed time to manifest it's power properly. Madara even said so. Madara on the other hand reformed the Juubi almost completely on his first try. Presumably he needed some time to restore the missing part of Kurama, but nevertheless he eventually achieved this.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: both are immortal, by the way. madara regenerated from night guy without the trunk, even while missing half of kurama. since hago is a much more perfect ttj, his regeneration is probably way better as well.

      Mind showing the pages?

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    • okay. by the way, do I need to tell a moderator that a am doing so? (I will anyways, cuz im tired of u, @kakashi). well, I tried. it didn't work, but I can tell where to look. volume 70, chap 4, page 78-79 (I think). if u say u cant find it, I know u are lying, just so u know.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Mind showing the pages?

      Madara retrieved his second eye after fighting with SP Naruto and Sasuke. That was after Guy unleashed the Eight Gates. Madara absorbed the Shinju after he obtained his second eye.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Unlike madara hagoromo didnt absorb shinju trunk,thus he isnt immortal.Dude rinnegan users have diffrent set abilitys,he may use his better,but dosent mean he knows everything about madaras,let alone use them better.Kaguya isnt far more powerfull than madara,kishi needed plot to kill madara,kaguya got defeated in a fair fight.Once again,madara can kill hag,while hag needs to touch madara.

      You know what I find hilarious? It's the fact that you are unaware of your own hypocrisy. You yourself often ask for proof, only to realize you don't have any either.

      "Madara can kill hag", "Kaguya isn't far more powerful than Madara", Kishi needed plot to kill Madara".

      You need to bring some bread to the table, not dirt. Those are all just baseless assumptions and excuses you create in order to deceive yourself into thinking you're correct, when you know you really aren't. What annoys me the most is that you state them like they are one-hundred percent fact, which they aren't.

      "Unlike madara hagoromo didnt absorb shinju trunk,thus he isnt immortal.",

      Hagoromo is the original TTJ - meaning he possesses all complete versions of the Tailed Beasts. Madara was missing half of Kurama. Obito summoned the Shinju Tree only after transforming into the TTJ, and because of this, it is by extension a portion of the Ten-Tails' power. Madara reabsorbed it, thereby restoring the power to the wielder. So logically we can assume Hagoromo already possess' this portion of the power.

      "Madara can kill hag",

      Oh look, more dirt he hath brought to thy table... Hagoromo is the original TTJ and original wielder of the Rinnegan. Just by knowing this alone we can discern that they are basically almost equal in sheer power and both possess pseudo-immortality. You can even say Madara was weaker, as he was missing a portion of Kurama. Hagoromo also stated that Madara had not reached his own level yet (Naruto 671:7).

      "Kaguya isn't far more powerful than Madara",

      The dirt is piling up, we still don't have anything good to eat yet. Kaguya is far more powerful than Madara. Hagoromo stated previously that she was much more powerful than he was (Naruto 670:10), so therefore we can logically conclude she was stronger than Madara. Sasuke himself even states that the chakra she possesses is on a completely different level than he Madara had (Naruto 679:15).

      Kakashisologod wrote: then why wasnt he immortal?

      Once again, a completely baseless assumption in every sense of the term, stated like fact. How do you know he was not "immortal", when it was never addressed nor referenced anywhere that he wasn't? In fact, I find it baffling how you could even make this assumption in the first place, considering how Madara's powers, are just really Hagoromo's powers!

      TL;DR: In the end, Madara isn't even aware of a power that can seal him away even exists, so it's safe to assume he would not even expect it coming. Hagoromo wouldn't even try and prolong the fight with needless flashy techniques - his first priority is to seal Madara. Hagoromo will win. Eating dirt also killed us.

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    • @Thekillman Actually, Madara first absorbed Shinju after Naruto hit him with Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken, which also cut Shinju. After that Madara fought Naruto and Sasuke briefly, and after that he took Kakashi's Sharingan, used Kamui and took second Rinnegan from Obito(while also giving Obito back his other Sharingan).

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    • While i am not working in the dirt like you XD.And u know what i find funny?Its that u think hag knows madaras abilitys better than madara.Baseless assumption.Please,u can check it on the internet and look at kishi talking about madara,hell u can also look at the page Itachi vs madara and @Princess brought that link.Also chakra lvl dosent really matter,i mean having more chakra dosent make somebody more powerfull.When hag stated that,it was 1 eyed madara without shinju trunk,3 eyed madara with shinju trunk is MUCH more powerfull.Do not compare those two versions of madara.Chapter 670 page 10 you say?Well thats only hag talking about himself and naruto saying how PS and nagato told him about him and u are telling me i am talking dirt XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: While i am not working in the dirt like you XD.And u know what i find funny?Its that u think hag knows madaras abilitys better than madara.Baseless assumption

      Hagoromo knew his mother. The Rinnegan is his own power, which he likely had for a very long time. He was TTJ for most of his life. And you suggest "end of life Rinnegan, 11th hour TTJ" madara knows better what Hagoromo has known for possibly his entire life?

      JouXIII wrote: @Thekillman Actually, Madara first absorbed Shinju after Naruto hit him with Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken, which also cut Shinju. After that Madara fought Naruto and Sasuke briefly, and after that he took Kakashi's Sharingan, used Kamui and took second Rinnegan from Obito(while also giving Obito back his other Sharingan).

      Ah yea thanks for the correction. It's such a jam-packed part of the manga.

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    • Still havent provided evidence that madara dosent know about his abilitys like hag does.

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    • lol is that even relevant? lets say madara has a desert eagle. hag has a desert eagle with three different sights, a knife, and maybe even a grenade. this is like Bruce lee (hag) vs chuck Norris (madara). its this simple. every single thing that madara can do, will do, or thinks about doing, has already been done by hag, and twice as good as madara.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: While i am not working in the dirt like you XD.And u know what i find funny?Its that u think hag knows madaras abilitys better than madara.Baseless assumption.Please,u can check it on the internet and look at kishi talking about madara,hell u can also look at the page Itachi vs madara and @Princess brought that link.Also chakra lvl dosent really matter,i mean having more chakra dosent make somebody more powerfull.When hag stated that,it was 1 eyed madara without shinju trunk,3 eyed madara with shinju trunk is MUCH more powerfull.Do not compare those two versions of madara.Chapter 670 page 10 you say?Well thats only hag talking about himself and naruto saying how PS and nagato told him about him and u are telling me i am talking dirt XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

      So basically you have nothing to back up your claims, and that you possess the literary skills of a six year-old. You want me to look up an interview from Kishimoto for "proof"? It doesn't really matter what came out of his mouth - if it's not in the official source material, it's not there, period. You ask for "proof", and I've given them. I referenced the pages I got my reasoning from, which for some reason your "special" mind cannot comprehend, while all you bring is...well frankly speaking, nothing. I find it hilarious how you can accuse me of making baseless assumptions just because you lack the processing power for any type of critical thinking. Maybe you should understand what the words 'baseless' and 'assumption' actually mean first, and you'll see that it falls in line with what you've been putting out.

      I never said that Hagoromo "knows" Madara's abilities better than Madara himself, I stated that he understands them better than Madara. Hagoromo has been the TTJ for longer than Madara has, so logically he would have a far more advanced understanding of the abilities a TTJ possesses. I mean, how could he not? They are both the same type of Jinchuuriki, so logically they should have roughly the same powers right?

      To put this into context, what was the difference between the powers granted to Minato and Naruto when they were both the Jinchuuriki of Kurama? There wasn't any, they both showed the same abilities.

      "Also chakra lvl dosent really matter,i mean having more chakra dosent make somebody more powerfull.", "3 eyed madara with shinju trunk is MUCH more powerfull."

      Okay, so basically what you're saying is that TTJ Obito is at the same level of strength as TTJ Madara. Obito was missing both Kurama and Gyuki and had to make due with just portions of their chakra. It was made pretty clear that TTJ Madara was on another level compared to Obito, and all Madara had was 1.5 more TB. So you're wrong there.

      Also, what does absorbing the Shinju tree actually do, exactly? Other than just reabsorbing the chakra from the tree, as well as the Rinne-Sharingan, what other powers does it give him? Care to explain? In fact, it wasn't even an actual god tree. It was just a portion of the Ten-Tails that Obito manifested because he lacked the Rinne-Sharingan, and was unaware of how to actually cast the genjutsu. So no, it didn't give him "extra" power, as it was supposed to be there from the beginning. Absorbing it just returns the portion of power split off back to the wielder.

      Also, how does having the Rinne-Sharingan make Madara "much more" powerful exactly? Not from what we've have seen. The only abilities it had displayed was casting Infinite Tskuyomi, and Dimension Shifting. Both of which, we're countered by Naruto and Sasuke.

      Kakashisologod wrote: Still havent provided evidence that madara dosent know about his abilitys like hag does.

      Oh look here guys. He wants us to provide evidence, while he himself doesn't have any! THE IRONY!

      While having Six Path's Senjutsu does give you ultimate understanding of all five nature transformations, it does not give you understanding of all of the abilities of a TTJ. Madara didn't know how to cast IS until the disembodied voice of Kaguya called out to him. Hagoromo has been around a lot longer, and he knows all the tricks, so Madara has no surprises. Madara was also unaware of the fact he could be sealed, so, yeah. He definitely doesn't know all of Hagoromo's abilities.

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    • I dont have evidence?So u are saying that sasuke<<<<<naruto just because naruto has higher chakra lvl?See my point?I am sorry @Lorenzo said that hag knows to use madaras abilitys and counter them LOL.Also do they have knowledge here?I mean hag can just come up to madara and seal him since madara dosent know about it.No dimension shifting wasnt countered by sasuke and naruto,but obito.@Princess actually brought evidence,he posted a link.AND STILL chapter 670 page 10 IS ONLY about them talking.SO THATS FALSE WHAT u bought up.

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    • No, in the bottom left corner Hagoromo clearly states that she was "more powerful than anyone." Of course that's open to interpretation, however it's still something, compared to your nothing. I subtracted the fan art pages from the page count. So no, it's not false.

      As for the chakra level argument, Naruto definitely has far more raw power, so it holds true. So yes, in terms of raw power Naruto>Sasuke. However, just because person A has more raw power than person B doesn't necessarily mean mean A can beat B.

      As for the link to his interview, it doesn't matter. Not in source material? Then it's not material. Unusable and utterly pointless. If the only thing holding up your arguments is something he said in an interview, you need to rethink your strategy altogether.

      What do you mean by "do they have knowledge here"? You mean if they have knowledge of each others abilities? I've already covered this previously.

      Hagoromo will win, fight me.

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    • No he dosent LOL.And we were talking about chakra levels not raw power.Reason why i asked about knowledge is because if madara dosent know about the seal,he is done for.

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    • Hago has the Sage mode too

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    • Kjubi wrote: Hago has the Sage mode too

      He has SPS not SPSM.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: He has SPS not SPSM.

      Doesn't matter. Hagoromo gave Naruto that power, so whatever exact Sage form Hagoromo has, it's equivalent to that if not better.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: He has SPS not SPSM.

      Doesn't matter. Hagoromo gave Naruto that power, so whatever exact Sage form Hagoromo has, it's equivalent to that if not better.

      I said its not the same,not that its weaker.

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    • and hago has sp senjutsu himself, and sp senjutsu from the juubi. that would make him juudara 2 rinne lvl easily imo. hago with his own rinne, plus his sharingan, would be at 3 eyed juudara lvl, as well. hago could have rinnesharingan as well, and guess who would use it better?... the supposed yoda, in this case....

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: and hago has sp senjutsu himself, and sp senjutsu from the juubi. that would make him juudara 2 rinne lvl easily imo. hago with his own rinne, plus his sharingan, would be at 3 eyed juudara lvl, as well. hago could have rinnesharingan as well, and guess who would use it better?... the supposed yoda, in this case....

      He dosent have rinnesharingan,but with the rest i agree.

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    • Just to clear up a few things, Hagoromo said Madara was approaching him in power when Madara only had one Rinnegan. When Madara had both Rinnegan and the RinneSharingan in terms of visual prowess Madara is ahead, in terms of chakra Hagoromo is ahead because he wielded all the tailed beasts at 100% while Madara is missing a few pieces. If a fight were to ensue I think Hagoromo would win because Madara didn't quite master his visual prowess but it'd be a close fight. If Madara would live a few years longer with the Juubi and his three eyes, then I'd bet on him. Madara also has the potential to outdo Hagoromo despite lacking some experience with his eyes.

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    • Approaching does not mean close.. the only thing Madara would of had over him is the Rinne Sharingan. Everywhere else Hag wins.

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    • @xshady, ur right. madara might win, but only if used all his powers, and had experience with said powers. but if he doesn't, then hago kill him

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: @xshady, ur right. madara might win, but only if used all his powers, and had experience with said powers. but if he doesn't, then hago kill him

      Sealed to be more precise,madara is immortal.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: @xshady, ur right. madara might win, but only if used all his powers, and had experience with said powers. but if he doesn't, then hago kill him

      Sealed to be more precise,madara is immortal.

      so was hagoromo..

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    • @kakakshi, it was just an expression.

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    • @QuakingStar Why does it matter? We aren't debating for One Rinnegan Juubidara, we're talking about Dual Rinnegan+RinneSharingan Juubidara and we both can agree that in terms of visual prowess Madara is superior correct? It's literally the pinnacle of dojutsu. Everywhere else in regards to what? Chakra sure due to tailed beasts. Speed? Strength? Potency? We can't say for certain, we don't have enough feats from both Hagoromo and Juubidara but from scaling we can certainly say they're close in overall performance with the noteable differences being Madara has better eyes and Hagoromo has the better chakra.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote: @QuakingStar Why does it matter? We aren't debating for One Rinnegan Juubidara, we're talking about Dual Rinnegan+RinneSharingan Juubidara and we both can agree that in terms of visual prowess Madara is superior correct? It's literally the pinnacle of dojutsu. Everywhere else in regards to what? Chakra sure due to tailed beasts. Speed? Strength? Potency? We can't say for certain, we don't have enough feats from both Hagoromo and Juubidara but from scaling we can certainly say they're close in overall performance with the noteable differences being Madara has better eyes and Hagoromo has the better chakra.

      U have Madaras picture...how can u vote for a close fight?XD

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    • @Kakashisologod1 Lol, I have a Madara photo but I'm not biased for or against him or anyone else in any way. Close fight learning handidly towards Hagoromo, if Madara mastered his abilities then him.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote: @Kakashisologod1 Lol, I have a Madara photo but I'm not biased for or against him or anyone else in any way. Close fight learning handidly towards Hagoromo, if Madara mastered his abilities then him.

      This is like putting madara vs rinnegan sasuke(who mastered his rinnegan abilitys better).Madara has less expirience with it.

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    • @Kakashisologod1 Not really, Madara wouldn't need to master his dojutsu to beat Rinnegan Sasuke because it's on an entirely different level.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote: @Kakashisologod1 Not really, Madara wouldn't need to master his dojutsu to beat Rinnegan Sasuke because it's on an entirely different level.

      I was comparing on how much they mastered rinnegan.Not a battle.

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    • @Kakashisologod1 "This is like putting madara vs rinnegan sasuke." It seemed like it, but alright.

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    • What i meant was that hag is more expirienced with the rinnegan than madara.

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    • Hag has watched everything since he died, especially the transmigrants and the bijuu. He is better with the Rinnegan, and he knows all of Madara's experiences and abilities. Madara isn't beating Hagoromo.. he literally watched everything.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Hag has watched everything since he died, especially the transmigrants and the bijuu. He is better with the Rinnegan, and he knows all of Madara's experiences and abilities. Madara isn't beating Hagoromo.. he literally watched everything.

      What if he had his eyes closed?xd

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    • @QuakingStar I agree that Hagoromo wins in this case. However, let's not forget that Madara does have a superior third eye (Rinnesharingan.) and the fact that Hagoromo may be a bit lackluster in terms of skill in combat due to not being in battle for so long despite seeing a lot. Hagoromo wins, but I'd argue that if Madara mastered his eyes then he'd win.

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    • The only thing that Madara has over him is the Rinne Sharingan. Hagoromo wins this simply because he already knows how to defeat somebody like Kaguya and TTJ Madara. I would also argue that Hag has the Rinne Sharingan.. I think he sealed it away though hence the seal tattoo on his forehead. He was a TTJ with the Rinnegan and simply floating towards the moon opens up the Rinne Sharingan, apparently it is already there but you need to go towards the moon to open the eye up, thus awakening it. I'm positive Hagoromo knew this.

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    • yeah... im pretty sire I made a comment just like urs, once before.

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    • Didn't see it, plus yours was sloppy anyway.

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    • well, damn, then a I think u need u need some glasses, since im the type of person that repeats comments over and over again specially to people like u. wait, how did u know if it was sloppy, since u didn't see it? interesting huh? ps, did u check the dates on the previous comments, just to see how old some of them are?

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    • I literally went and looked at it when you whined about my comment being similar to yours, Happy little buddy? :)

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    • @QuakingStar Hagoromo cannot beat Kaguya and has stated himself that Kaguya is superior to him, Hagoromo and his brother beat Kaguya. It's not a solo feat. Hagoromo also does not possess the Rinnesharingan and has stated the eye on his forehead is the MS. I don't think you can just get the Rinnegan, fly to the moon and acquire the Rinnesharingan, Madara had absorbed the Shinju tree beforehand. Either way Hagoromo doesn't have the Rinnesharingan and has a weaker dojutsu than Madara, he's just more experienced with his set of eyes. If Madara mastered his eyes then in terms of visual prowess he'd be superior to Hagoromo. Just how Hagoromo is superior to Madara in terms of chakra, it's really close to be honest.

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    • The MS part, that is anime only. The seal in his forehead is never explained. I'm inclined to believe he sealed away his Rinne Sharingan, also he sealed the Ten Tails(His mother) away with Hamura's help before he even became a Ten Tailed Jinchuriki.. we both know how massive a boost it is once you become a TTJ and Hag was a fully complete TTJ. TTJ Hag is stronger than TTJ Madara, and I'm positive he had Rinne Sharingan.. I just believe like I said, that he sealed it away.. considering it a sin to have it.

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    • Maybe he sealed his third eye before getting it?So he would not become next kaguya?

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    • That's possible too.

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    • First things first, Hagoromo should definitely have more chakra because Madara had only 50% of Kurama and <100% of the other Bijuus.

      Secondly, Hagoromo's Susanoo is much larger than any other Susanoo we've seen, which means his can squash anything Madara can make (meteors, Susanoos, Wood Release structures).

      Thirdly, although it can be argued Madara has more experience with fighting, he doesn't have a whole lot of it with his Six Paths powers while Hagoromo has lived with it his entire life.

      Also, Hagoromo has his Treasured Tools which can easily seal Madara. As seen in the series, Madara didn't bother with them as he literally spat out what could be his only hope against Hagoromo.

      I'm also assuming Hagoromo has far more experience in senjutsu and Natural Energy, being able to use (probably) every single element there is, and knowledge in general.

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    • Actually only thing that could seal 3 eyed madara was SP CT

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    • Hagoromo had said only that Madara was APPROACHING him and his mother. Meaning that even with the Shinju Tree absorbed into him and the Rinne Sharingan.. Hagoromo is still stronger than him.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: When Madara absorbed the SHinju into himself, Hagoromo had said only that Madara was APPROACHING him. Meaning that even with the Shinju Tree absorbed into him and the Rinne Sharingan.. Hagoromo is still stronger than him.

      Didnt he say that when he had 1 eye he was approaching him?I might be wrong.

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    • Madara takes it. At least Double Rinnegan + God Tree + Rinnesharingan Madara can take on Hagoromo in my opinion.

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    • Hag says "He's using the TTJ's power to try and get close to me.. ..and my mothers power" Madara had only 1 eye at the time but the line is clear, TTJ Hagoromo's power is on his mothers level of power, just not EXACTLY the same. Madara is trying to approach that.

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    • It's clear there's gonna be a lot of assumption in this discussion due to lack of info, but I don't see why people are assuming absorbing the God Tree is much of a boost. Yes, it clearly rejuvenated the two halves of Madara into one piece again, but if you think about it, what more could it have done? The God Tree he absorbed wasn't the actual, original God Tree. It was the empty form, or "shell" (much like the Gedo Statue), of the final version of the Ten Tails. And because Madara already had within him the Juubi, that meant the tree Obito had left wasn't much of anything really, maybe just some giant tree with a lot of natural energy. If the tree really had a significant amount of chakra within it to make Madara more powerful, that's literally creating chakra out of nowhere, if you think about it.

      Also, there's no way Madara can seal Hagoromo because he doesn't have the Treasured Tools nor those Ying-Yang hand symbol thingies. On the other hand, Hagoromo already has multiple ways to seal him. And it can basically be confirmed that, on the ninjutsu side, Hagoromo is the clear winner. He probably has the advantage over everyone when it comes to the elements, and he has more chakra than Madara, and his Susanoo is bigger. (That may seem like a stale argument, but what can Madara do to get past his Susanoo? Hagoromo can see through his Limbo, too.)

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    • @QuakingStar The anime is the only thing we have to go off of. Why would you be inclined to believe he sealed away his RinneSharingan? It's simple, he never had it to begin with. Anime display >> Your assumption without any substance. He said it was a MS, so I'm gonna go with that despite being anime. Also, you're wrong. Hagoromo said Madara was approaching him when he only had one Rinnegan, afterwards he absorbed the Shinju tree, gained his second Rinnegan and the RinneSharingan. I think it's pretty clear that in terms of visual prowess/raw dojutsu potency Madara is ahead, but Hagoromo mastered his eyes over the years. And no that line isn't an indication that Hagoromo is anywhere near Kaguya, Kaguya is in a tier of her own. She's superior to Hagoromo and they are not the same. Please stop trying to put Kaguya and Hagoromo on the same level, it's pretty clear Kaguya is superior and Madara gained a piece of her power, being the Rinnesharingan.

      @EternalMangekyōRinneSharingan Hagoromo certainly has more chakra than Madara as he wielded 100% of all tailed beasts, there's no debate regarding that. I do disagree with the fact that Hagoromo could do away with anything Madara could make given his eyes have the better potency. By scaling and logic, Dual Rinnegan+RinneSharingan > Dual Rinnegan+MS. Hagoromo has the more experienced eyes, but Madara's eyes would be more potent by scaling and he certainly wouldn't be lack luster regarding useage/experience seeing as though he had significant intel on the Rinnegan, he just held back against Naruto and Sasuke. I'm not entirely sure if the treasured tools would be effective seeing as though Madara spat it out and said they didn't matter at all. Unless that was just Kishi trying to make an opening for Madara to be defeated.

      There's no evidence that the Shinju tree did anything more than give Madara a durability and healing boost. Also, just because you have a way to seal someone doesn't mean you win, you have to actually incapacitate said person first. The five Kage had means of sealing Madara but lost horribly. (Not comparing Hag to the five Kage, just pointing out that because you can seal and the other potentially cannot doesn't mean you win.) Also let's not forget when Madara first emerged as the Juubi's host he had the Six paths sealing tools, so it's not that he was never capable of doing any form of sealing, he just saw it as useless. Furthermore, just because Hagoromo can detect Limbo clones doesn't mean he'd be able to react to all four of them and also Madara doing jutsu all at once. We've also never seen Juubi Madara spawn a Susano'o, if the RinnegSharingan would allow that? Perhaps, if so then I'm certain it'd be in an entirely different league than his Edo/EMS Perfect Susano'o by logic. But I don't think Susano'o would be the deciding factor here. I also see senjutsu being a non-factor considering Madara stated it was easy to wield.

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    • @XShadyShadow I'm just not convinced the Rinne Sharingan would do anything in this fight. Madara just hasn't shown the feats, so I'm just gonna have to assume there aren't any bar IT. And yes you're right in that just having those Tools doesn't mean you're gonna win. But at the same time, how will Madara win? Because of the similarities between the two, the winner would be decided by how unique they are and how those unique advantages help them. There isn't any way Madara would do serious damage against Hagoromo because of the Susanoo advantage I mentioned. Maybe through Limbo, but even then they can only use taijutsu, and Hagoromo could damage Madara back by attacking the shadows. And don't forget, Hagoromo would absorb any jutsu Madara performs through Preta Path (vice versa too, leading to my next point).

      And that is why the Tools are the key to Hagoromo's victory. I can't tell you how he will seal Madara, but eventually he will because guess what? They won't be able to do much to each other (because of their similar abilities) until Madara slips. And Hagoromo won't slip because he will definitely outlast Madara, and when that time comes, Madara would be regretting disposing those Tools.

      Regarding your Susanoo point, again I'm gonna have to assume Madara is limited to the Susanoo we've seen from him. There's just too many hypotheticals in this battle...  :/

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    • Madara is also a ttj like hag and should have susano even bigger than his as he has more powerful dojjutsu.Also hag also needs a feat where he shows he is faster than madara to actually seal him.IMO hag should not be included in battles,too little feats.

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    • The only Dojutsu he has that Hag does not is the Rinne Sharingan. Hag is also the only person to ever fully master the Rinnegan. That Susanoo claim is speculation alone.

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    • That is true, Hagoromo is truly difficult to analyse what little he's shown, in a versus thread. But, for the sake of this one, we just have to base his abilities off what we've heard about him. Now all I'm wondering is just how long that battle would last?

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    • @EternalMangekyōRinneSharingan You don't think the RinneSharingan would do anything in a fight? It's the strongest dojutsu, lol. If anything the Rinnegan and Tailed beast chakra from Madara and Hagoromo will be the deciding factors. So I'm gonna have to severly disagree on the point that the RinneSharingan wouldn't do anything. We don't have feats but by logic new eye powers grant new abilities (Sharingan,MS,EMS,Byakugan,etc.) It's a re-occuring theme. Sure, we haven't seen any feats from it regarding Madara but it's a bit disingenuous to think that it can only do IT. You do realize that the reason Kaguya was able to dimension hop was because of the RinneSharingan correct? Not saying that Madara would do the same, just stating that it's highly unlikely that he wouldn't gain any abilities from obtaining the Rinnesharingan, it's a dojutsu powerup afterall. Regarding Madara's Limbo:

      "Perceiving this phantom is impossible, the enemies unpreparedness invites disaster.A person who posses the Rinnegan can intervene in an adjacent world, an extremely distance world. In that space a shadow is produced, which everyone who is connected with the current world can't feel. Not only will the jutsu user gain a duplicate of himself with "equal ability", but it will also be invisible. Squaring of against a user, counter attack is impossible, going up against this ability will result in one losing against such a powerful enemy. The Rinnegan can shape one shadow. With a complete set of two Rinnegan it can shape 4. When fighting the enemy in close combat the shadow will stay away. But after a time the shadow will return." According to a translation from the 4th databook, although we aren't entirely sure seeing as though Madara hasn't displayed it.

      Susano'o wouldn't be that big of an advantage for Hag, a pre-Juubi amped Madara was able to subdue all nine tailed beasts with one strike for each beast with just one Limbo, so even if their use of ninjutsu is called into debate their taijutsu should be enough considering there would be five people Hagoromo would essentially face off against. If they both begin absorbing each other's jutsu then it's not as simple as "someone's gonna slip up." Their gonna go into a battle of Taijutsu as ninjutsu would prove ineffective for both, and in terms of that Madara has the superior feats by far. Not only that but he has four Limbo clones of himself, so essentially Hagoromo would have to fight 5 Madaras. I'm sure Hagoromo doesn't slack for taijutsu, but I don't see him fighting off five Madara's all at once especially with the feats he displayed, such as fodderizing seven gate Gai and reacting to Gai in Eight gates. Madara has also instantly regenerated half of his body after absorbing the Shinju tree and claimed immortality, meaning that even if Hagoromo did manage to damage him severely he'd likely recover from it with relative ease, he also has the option to swap himself out with a Limbo clone if things get too nasty. Hagoromo would be far more likely to make a mistake than Madara because he could easily be pressured far more from Limbo.

      But this debate in itself is speculation due to the fact that we've never seen Madara go all out, especially in his final form and we haven't seen enough from Hagoromo. We haven't seen enough from both of them. Regarding Susano'o, the only thing I think would be into question is if Madara could use it. "Rinnesharingan." It does have Sharingan in it so maybe you'd also be capable of using your MS techniques? If so then without a doubt Madara's Susano'o would be in an entirely different tier than his previous one. He got Juubi amped and reached the pinnacle of dojutsu.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote:

      @EternalMangekyōRinneSharingan You don't think the RinneSharingan would do anything in a fight? It's the strongest dojutsu, lol. If anything the Rinnegan and Tailed beast chakra from Madara and Hagoromo will be the deciding factors. So I'm gonna have to severly disagree on the point that the RinneSharingan wouldn't do anything. We don't have feats but by logic new eye powers grant new abilities (Sharingan,MS,EMS,Byakugan,etc.) It's a re-occuring theme. Sure, we haven't seen any feats from it regarding Madara but it's a bit disingenuous to think that it can only do IT. You do realize that the reason Kaguya was able to dimension hop was because of the RinneSharingan correct? Not saying that Madara would do the same, just stating that it's highly unlikely that he wouldn't gain any abilities from obtaining the Rinnesharingan, it's a dojutsu powerup afterall.

      Was Rinne-Sharingan said to be the strongest dojutsu? I don't think so.
      Besides Rinne-Sharingan means that it's Kaguya fighting(especially considering TT was Kaguya and that hagoromo made the seals to prevent her awakening. All Madara did was reverse them so logically speaking it would be kaguya fighting) And besides I don't think Madara even has the reserves to use Rinne- Sharingan.

      XShadyShadow wrote: Regarding Madara's Limbo:

      "Perceiving this phantom is impossible, the enemies unpreparedness invites disaster.A person who posses the Rinnegan can intervene in an adjacent world, an extremely distance world. In that space a shadow is produced, which everyone who is connected with the current world can't feel. Not only will the jutsu user gain a duplicate of himself with "equal ability", but it will also be invisible. Squaring of against a user, counter attack is impossible, going up against this ability will result in one losing against such a powerful enemy. The Rinnegan can shape one shadow. With a complete set of two Rinnegan it can shape 4. When fighting the enemy in close combat the shadow will stay away. But after a time the shadow will return." According to a translation from the 4th databook, although we aren't entirely sure seeing as though Madara hasn't displayed it.

      Susano'o wouldn't be that big of an advantage for Hag, a pre-Juubi amped Madara was able to subdue all nine tailed beasts with one strike for each beast with just one Limbo, so even if their use of ninjutsu is called into debate their taijutsu should be enough considering there would be five people. If they both begin absorbing each other's jutsu then it's not as simple as "someone's gonna slip up." Their gonna go into a battle of Taijutsu as ninjutsu would prove ineffective for both, and in terms of that Madara has the superior feats by far. Not only that but he has four Limbo clones of himself, so essentially Hagoromo would have to fight 5 Madaras. I'm sure Hagoromo doesn't slack for taijutsu, but I don't see him fighting off five Madara's all at once especially with the feats he displayed. Not only this but Madara instantly regenerated half of his body after absorbing the Shinju tree, meaning that even if Hagoromo did manage to damage him severly he'd likely recover from it, he also has the option to swap himself out with a Limbo clone. Hagoromo would be far more likely to make a mistake than Madara because he could easily be pressured far more from Limbo.
      three things I would point out here:
      1)Hagoromo can "see" the shadow.
      2)Hagoromo too can use shadow clone(also he has significant advantage in ninjutsu especially since he doesn't has to weave many signs being Kaguya's son and all)
      3)The power of both Indra and Ashura is his base power. It's a natural for him unlike madara Which means his use would be significantly much better than Madara.
      I don't know why you are making fuss about limbo, but it's definitely not gonna give him any advantage over Hagoromo

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      But this debate in itself is speculation due to the fact that we've never seen Madara go all out, especially in his final form and we haven't seen enough from Hagoromo.

      Before you talk about Madara going all out, Think about Hagoromo's Base state(the chakra he inherited from kaguya) That by itself would far more than Madara's own chakra(or even from Hashirama's cells). That by itself should give a highly significant advantage. Besides if I remember correctly Hagoromo could use ninjutsu without hand-signs that should give him another significant advantage.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9 I think it's pretty clear that the Rinne Sharingan is the strongest dojutsu. It's attacks are planetary level and on an entirely different scale than the other dojutsu (Infinite Tsukuyomi, God:Nativity of a world of trees, Kaguya's dimension shifting Ameno.) and the fact that it's the originator of all dojutsu then devolved into other dojutsu. Of course Madara has the reserves to use the RinneSharingan because he casted two of it's jutsu's. (Infinite Tsukuyomi and God:Nativity of a world of trees.) No it's not Kaguya fighting just because you have the Rinne Sharingan, Madara awakened his own. You're just flat out wrong in regards to your first point.

      1)Okay? I never said Hagoromo couldn't see Madara's Limbo clones because he clearly can. What's your point?

      2) Shadow clones differ from Limbo clones, if Shadow clones take enough damage they disperse and only have a portion of the user's chakra/power. You have to actually seal a Limbo clone to defeat it and they gain full stats of the caster. It's essentially another Madara. Limbo clone >> Shadow clone.

      3) Limbo would clearly give Madara a taijutsu advantage, fighting five Madaras especially considering Madara has the strength and speed feats to back it up while Hagoromo is near, if not entirely featless regarding taijutsu. Not only that but Madara can actually replace himself with a Limbo if he wants, Limbo is superior to Shadow clones. I don't know what you're talking about, but that's a clear indication of an advantage.

      Base stats don't mean much considering they're both Juubi amped and where are you getting with this whole part Kaguya/Indra/Ashura thing?? Using ninjutsu without weaving signs isn't a significant advantage in this situation and where did you get that from? Not that I doubt it, just curious.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote:

      @Namikazenaruto9 I think it's pretty clear that the Rinne Sharingan is the strongest dojutsu. It's attacks are planetary level and on an entirely different scale than the other dojutsu (Infinite Tsukuyomi, God:Nativity of a world of trees, Kaguya's dimension shifting Ameno.) and the fact that it's the originator of all dojutsu then devolved into other dojutsu. Of course Madara has the reserves to use the RinneSharingan because he casted two of it's jutsu's. (Infinite Tsukuyomi and God:Nativity of a world of trees.) No it's not Kaguya fighting just because you have the Rinne Sharingan, Madara awakened his own. You're just flat out wrong in regards to your first point.
      I am not. I believe that Rinnegan is stronger. Rinnegan can break all of those jutsu(other than that teleportation). And as I told you before TT is kaguya. Those tailed beast were the precursor to prevent kaguya from reawakening. Once Madara "awakened"(which is point when kaguya starts manifesting in his body) the Rinne-sharingan he had essentially become "Kaguya".

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      1)Okay? I never said Hagoromo couldn't see Madara's Limbo clones because he clearly can. What's your point?

      I believe you wrote an essay Limbo's ability particularly on the invisible thing. I thought perhaps you may have forgotten.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      2) Shadow clones differ from Limbo clones, if Shadow clones take enough damage they disperse and only have a portion of the user's chakra/power. You have to actually seal a Limbo clone to defeat it and they gain full stats of the caster. It's essentially another Madara. Limbo clone >> Shadow clone.
      Disproved by naruto. Naruto's clones easily kept up with Madara's limbo. Besides during VOTE-2 Naruto's clones weren't dissipating even on being hit).

      XShadyShadow wrote: 3) Limbo would clearly give Madara a taijutsu advantage, fighting five Madaras especially considering Madara has the strength and speed feats to back it up while Hagoromo is near, if not entirely featless regarding taijutsu. Not only that but Madara can actually replace himself with a Limbo if he wants, Limbo is superior to Shadow clones. I don't know what you're talking about, but that's a clear indication of an advantage.

      I explained this already.

      XShadyShadow wrote: Base stats don't mean much considering they're both Juubi amped and where are you getting with this whole part Kaguya/Indra/Ashura thing?? Using ninjutsu without weaving signs isn't a significant advantage in this situation and where did you get that from? Not that I doubt it, just curious.

      They do. Especially in Hagoromo 's case since he Beat Kaguya in Base(with Help from his brother of course)That should give you indication of how strong he was already in Base.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9 As I've said before, The Rinne Sharingan does planetary level attacks and it's attacks are on an entirely different scale than the Rinnegan and other dojutsu. The Rinnegan has resistance to the Rinne Sharingan but can't cast out it's jutsu, you need the Rinnegan and the power of the tailed beasts in order to do get rid of infinite Tsukuyomi. If you're saying that the Rinnegan is better solely because of this, then by your logic I guess the Reincarnation jutsu must be superior as well conidering it's immune to the effects of Infinite Tsukuyomi. Madara did not actually become Kaguya until Black zetsu set it into play, him gaining powers (Tailed beasts, Rinne Sharingan, Rinnegan, Shinju tree, etc.) Is just power that's comparable to her own so it set the potential for him to be turned into Kaguya. However, he still had his own consciousness and was Madara until Black zetsu transformed him directly. So no, with Madara having the Rinne Sharingan it would be Madara fightning, NOT Kaguya because he only transformed into Kaguya because of Black zetsu's direct involvement.

      1) I didn't write an essay, I copied a paragraph from the translated databook and it includes invisibility of Limbo, but the point I was making is that Limbo could potentially do ninjutsu, the same as Madara.


      2) Naruto didn't disprove anything, his clones and Madara's Limbos went head to head for one panel, what happened next was Sasuke hiding himself and Naruto under Susano'o with his clones being gone and Limbo clones being perfectly fine in which indicates Naruto's clones lost. If anything that proves that Shadow clones are indeed inferior to Limbo clones, even Sasuke told Naruto not to leave his Susano'o because Madara's Limbo clones were waiting outside. If Limbo clones could be beaten by Shadow clones then I'm certain this would've happened and Sasuke wouldn't have been worried about them. Especially at the end when they surrounded Team 7. Naruto's clones still dispersed after taking a certain amount of damage. Limbo clones have to actually be sealed, BIG difference.


      3) You were proven wrong. Limbo clones >> Shadow clones. Try again.


      4) Hagoromo had the Dual Rinnegan+MS in which were the true contributors to him and Hamura beating Kaguya, him activating Susano'o during battle was a testament to this. I highly doubt his physical attributions played a serious role, he's featless regarding physical strength and speed. Just admit that in terms of taijutsu from what we've seen, Madara has the better feats and showings along with Limbo useage.

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    • First of all Rinne-Sharingan has 3 jutsu. 2 of which can be negated by the use of rinnegan(with TB power of course). But what abt Rinnegan side of jutsu? Rinne-Sharingan Cannot stop any of them.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      1) I didn't write an essay, I copied a paragraph from the translated databook and it includes invisibility of Limbo, but the point I was making is that Limbo could potentially do ninjutsu, the same as Madara.

      Were they shown to use ninjutsu? Because I don't remember them using any.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 2) Naruto didn't disprove anything, his clones and Madara's Limbos went head to head for one panel, what happened next was Sasuke hiding himself and Naruto under Susano'o with his clones being gone and Limbo clones being perfectly fine in which indicates Naruto's clones lost. If anything that proves that Shadow clones are indeed inferior to Limbo clones, even Sasuke told Naruto not to leave his Susano'o because Madara's Limbo clones were waiting outside. If Limbo clones could be beaten by Shadow clones then I'm certain this would've happened and Sasuke wouldn't have been worried about them. Especially at the end when they surrounded Team 7. Naruto's clones still dispersed after taking a certain amount of damage. Limbo clones have to actually be sealed, BIG difference.

      Not at all on contrary in the panel they kept fighting till IT started. After that their fate wasn't shown(And you know what happens in IT.)

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      3) You were proven wrong. Limbo clones >> Shadow clones. Try again.

      I wasn't. Infact if Limbo had been so effective than Naruto and sasuke would have been forced to fight them on their own. But that didn't happen, Because of which Madara was forced to use plan B the meteorites to delay them.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      4) Hagoromo had the Dual Rinnegan+MS in which were the true contributors to him and Hamura beating Kaguya, him activating Susano'o during battle was a testament to this. I highly doubt his physical attributions played a serious role, he's featless regarding physical strength and speed. Just admit that in terms of taijutsu from what we've seen, Madara has the better feats and showings along with Limbo useage.

      Featless or not. He beat Kaguya without power up or Biju, That puts his base leagues ahead of Madara. And since the power-up because of Bijus is same it's clear that base would matter.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9 You just won't stop will you? Lol. The Rinne Sharingan likely has more than three abilities, Ameno alone is a dimension shifter (Kaguya made 3-4 dimensions) so those could be counted and why does it matter? I already told you before that they're on an entirely different scale then other dojutsu, those three abilities are planetary. Nothing the Rinnegan has is planetary. Not only that, but you need the Rinnegan and the power of the tailed beasts to cast it away. That's not a solo Rinnegan feat. The Rinnegan alone cannot stop any Rinne Sharingan jutsu and it scales A LOT higher than the Rinnegan abilities. What's your point?

      1) I never said they were displayed using ninjutsu, I was merely pointing out the databooks hints/suggests that they could, I even mentioned prior that they didn't show it. Pay attention.

      2)Wrong again, like I said before. They fought on ONE panel, they didn't fight until IT started. But the simple fact that when IT started, Naruto's clones were gone and Limbo clones were left unscathed we can infer that Naruto's clones didn't perform very well. Especially considering Sasuke warned him about Limbo afterwards and they surrounded Naruto and Sasuke after IT passed.

      3)Naruto and Sasuke were about to have to face them towards the end, Madara throwing in meteorites that he casually made and compared to raindrops has no bearing on his Limbo clones whatsoever. They are just further distractions. Madara wasn't forced to do anything after attaining his second Rinnegan against Naruto and Sasuke.

      Wrong again, dude. Hagoromo did not defeat Kaguya on his own, so your scaling for base Hagoromo is off for starters. Not only this but he did get a power up, he attained two Rinnegan and MS moments before lol. There is no proof or any evidence that points to Hagoromo using Taijutsu to defeat Kaguya, therefore you cannot say he's leagues ahead of someone when you can't scale his base attributes (Unless you mean his visual abilities.) and they're also featless. The tailed beasts give you physical enhancements (More, potent chakra. Stronger and faster physicality, etc.) We have nothing pointing at how good Hagoromo was regarding raw strength and speed in a fight. So trying to debate how good Hagoromo's taijutsu is in base form is pointless. What you were trying to say before is that he's an Ōtsutsuki. So yes he has powerful chakra naturally, that doesn't make him skilled or even good at Taijutsu. But you know who we do have feats for regarding taijutsu at base? And even when he's in Juubi form and has essentially five versions of himself that can fight all at once? I rest my case.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote: @Namikazenaruto9 You just won't stop will you? Lol. The Rinne Sharingan likely has more than three abilities, Ameno alone is a dimension shifter (Kaguya made 3-4 dimensions) so those could be counted and why does it matter? I already told you before that they're on an entirely different scale then other dojutsu, those three abilities are planetary. Nothing the Rinnegan has is planetary. Not only that, but you need the Rinnegan and the power of the tailed beasts to cast it away. That's not a solo Rinnegan feat. The Rinnegan alone cannot stop any Rinne Sharingan jutsu and it scales A LOT higher than the Rinnegan abilities. What's your point?

      Why are you hyping the rinne-sharingan so much? Which planetary feat you are talking abt? IT? Ameno? Wood release :Nativity thing? IT isn't going to effect the rinnegan holder. Wood release stuff too won't harm him. Ameno- you can bring a dimension so what? Rinnegan has ability to completely take care of opponent. Human path.(remove the soul)Naraka Path completely heal within sec and pass judgement. Deva Path. And so many other things.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      1) I never said they were displayed using ninjutsu, I was merely pointing out the databooks hints/suggests that they could, I even mentioned prior that they didn't show it. Pay attention.
      Makes them weaker to shadow cones considering that they can do devastating damage with ninjutsu.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      2)Wrong again, like I said before. They fought on ONE panel, they didn't fight until IT started. But the simple fact that when IT started, Naruto's clones were gone and Limbo clones were left unscathed we can infer that Naruto's clones didn't perform very well. Especially considering Sasuke warned him about Limbo afterwards and they surrounded Naruto and Sasuke after IT passed.
      clones suffered the fate most likely because of IT. That's why sasuke told him not to go out or he would suffer the same fate like others. Sasuke didn't say anything abt limbo.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      3)Naruto and Sasuke were about to have to face them towards the end, Madara throwing in meteorites that he casually made and compared to raindrops has no bearing on his Limbo clones whatsoever. They are just further distractions. Madara wasn't forced to do anything after attaining his second Rinnegan against Naruto and Sasuke.

      Like running away from a fight. Whatever you say dude...

      XShadyShadow wrote: Wrong again, dude. Hagoromo did not defeat Kaguya on his own, so your scaling for base Hagoromo is off for starters. Not only this but he did get a power up, he attained two Rinnegan and MS moments before lol. There is no proof or any evidence that points to Hagoromo using Taijutsu to defeat Kaguya, therefore you cannot say he's leagues ahead of someone when you can't scale his base attributes (Unless you mean his visual abilities.) and they're also featless. The tailed beasts give you physical enhancements (More, potent chakra. Stronger and faster physicality, etc.) We have nothing pointing at how good Hagoromo was regarding raw strength and speed in a fight. So trying to debate how good Hagoromo's taijutsu is in base form is pointless. What you were trying to say before is that he's an Ōtsutsuki. So yes he has powerful chakra naturally, that doesn't make him skilled or even good at Taijutsu. But you know who we do have feats for regarding taijutsu at base? And even when he's in Juubi form and has essentially five versions of himself that can fight all at once? I rest my case.

      Was that power-up? I don't think so.
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    • Madara wanted to put both sasuke and naruto in IT,thats why he was running away,but after seeing that sasuke can protect them,he started fighting seriously.Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>naruto and sasuke fact.

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    • But TTJ Hagoromo > TTJ Madara. Base Hag > Base Madara. Facts.

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    • There is a thing that is bothering me for a while.Since hag gave both naruto and sasuke his chakra+power boosts shouldnt they be as strong as hamura and hag(base).

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    • No, Hag was no longer a TTJ When he died, he was at base state so they each have half of base Hag's chakra.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No, Hag was no longer a TTJ When he died, he was at base state so they each have half of base Hag's chakra.

      Yeah,so why arent they as strong as hamura and hag(base).

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    • cuz they only got half. kinda like Naruto only had half of kurama during the 4th, and both halves during the toneri fight.. u can obviously tell the difference. and if I may add, hamura is probably stronger than both Naruto and sasuke at their primes. with tenseigan, I mean.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: cuz they only got half. kinda like Naruto only had half of kurama during the 4th, and both halves during the toneri fight.. u can obviously tell the difference. and if I may add, hamura is probably stronger than both Naruto and sasuke at their primes. with tenseigan, I mean.

      Yes,but he gave both of them half OF power and HIS chakra.Shouldnt they be as strong as base hag and hamura?

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    • well, which base hago and hamura? the ones vs kaguya (they were pretty much noobs at this point), or the ones at their peaks? and he didn't give them anything besides his chakra, out of the seals. the seals were probably the 'power' part of it, but since they have no more seals, only chakra remains. now, full powered Naruto (in the vote fight) and full powered sasuke (vote fight) would be equal to, or higher than hamura (with tenseigan, at prime), and right bellow hago (with juubi, at prime). so if they worked together, as they were in the vote, they would be easily stronger than hago at full power. they could for real beat him. now, if it was the kurama-susanoo fusion at the boruto movie, the they would be equal to hago, easily. that's all imo

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    • @NarutoNamikaze9 It's not about me hyping anything, I'm literally telling you the truth and facts. All mentioned jutsu are planetary, if not damn near period. If anything you're trying to down-play the Rinne Sharingan to appeal to a point that you've already failed to make, you know what your saying isn't true so now you're resorting to downplaying established feats. Are you serious? The desert Ameno could've easily solo'd Naruto and Sasuke (Oh lookie, a Rinnegan wielder.) if they didn't have plot armor and Obito there to save them. On two seperate occasions actually when she tossed Sasuke in another Ameno location. No Rinnegan path can save you from that. Rinne Sharingan > All dojutsu. It's powers are stronger than any other dojutsu, you clearly don't know how scaling works. Just because you have immunity or resistance to something doesn't degrade it's potency, the Rinne Sharingan has shown far more devastating feats than the Rinnegan. One including Ameno that can one-shot a Rinnegan user. You're downplaying and it's irritating, stop it.

      1) It's not devastating lol, you're overrating shadow clones. As I've said before shadow clones only gain a portion of the users overall chakra/strength while Limbo retains all stats. One Madara limbo clone pre-Juubi amped knocked all tailed beasts away with one hit on each Tailed beast.

      2) Doubt it. You're actually putting yourself in a corner, if you're saying Naruto clones > Limbo then are you saying that Naruto can beat Juubidara in terms of taijutsu? There was no ninjutsu involved. You're off somewhere and you know it. It's pretty clear Madara's limbo clones defeated Naruto's considering Madara used them again to surround team 7. Especially since Naruto didn't use clones again as a response, so if Madara used them against Naruto again and the whole team 7, Limbo clones had zero damage after tussling with Naruto's clones and Naruto didn't bother with using clones against them again, what does that tell you? Why would Madara bother with Limbo if it proved ineffective? Clearly the Limbo clones > Naruto's shadow clones. But you're gonna look for something inaccurate to make a false point. You do it everytime, face facts and learn to infer. Just because the manga doesn't flat out say something doesn't mean it isn't so if manga feats make it more than obvious.

      3) Running away? Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ran away from Naruto and Sasuke? LOL. He casually made a CT that was leagues better than Nagato's and it took both Naruto and Sasuke to take out those CT while Madara called them raindrops. Yeah he was "running away." Sasuke even noted that they wouldn't stop coming. It's more than obvious he flew upwards to actually complete what he set out to do (IT.) and to attain the Rinne Sharingan. Especially considering he came back and said he was done toying with them. You can't debate this, they'd get wrecked.

      Are you serious right now? Hagoromo gained BOTH his Rinnegan and MS on his forehead just before fighting Kaguya because he essentially killed his brother but revived him with the tag the toad gave him. Do you pay attention at all? Either you have something against Madara or you're just heavily misinformed. You're the same person who thought EMS Madara didn't have PS. Lol.

      @QuakingStar Base Hagoromo is better than base Madara, but once again in terms of chakra. Doubt it for actual skill and taijutsu. In terms of TTJ it's literally the same story, Hagoromo has the better chakra easily while it's literally the same for Madara in terms of dojutsu and taijutsu.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote: @NarutoNamikaze9 It's not about me hyping anything, I'm literally telling you the truth and facts. All mentioned jutsu are planetary, if not damn near period. If anything you're trying to down-play the Rinne Sharingan to appeal to a point that you've already failed to make, you know what your saying isn't true so now you're resorting to downplaying established feats. Are you serious? The desert Ameno could've easily solo'd Naruto and Sasuke (Oh lookie, a Rinnegan wielder.) if they didn't have plot armor and Obito there to save them. On two seperate occasions actually when she tossed Sasuke in another Ameno location. No Rinnegan path can save you from that. Rinne Sharingan > All dojutsu. It's powers are stronger than any other dojutsu, you clearly don't know how scaling works. Just because you have immunity or resistance to something doesn't degrade it's potency, the Rinne Sharingan has shown far more devastating feats than the Rinnegan. One including Ameno that can one-shot a Rinnegan user. You're downplaying and it's irritating, stop it.

      You are comparing newly awakened Rinnegan to Rinne-Sharingan? You say that Naruto and sasuke were saved by obito yet you refuse to admit the fact that a rinnegan holder too can open dimensions. That's how sasuke got into momoshiki's dimension to save naruto. Kaguya's Dimension teleportation would have been easily nullified with that ability of sasuke's rinnegan.
      Can Rinne Sharingan save you from Human path? OR the Pretha Path? Or even Deva Path? No it can't. Even if Kaguya managed to surprise sasuke with teleportation and had grabbed him he could have easily used Deva path to escape her clutches. but it didn't happen because sasuke was new to the rinnegan so stop quoting feats from Kaguya Vs Team-7

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      1) It's not devastating lol, you're overrating shadow clones. As I've said before shadow clones only gain a portion of the users overall chakra/strength while Limbo retains all stats. One Madara limbo clone pre-Juubi amped knocked all tailed beasts away with one hit on each Tailed beast.
      I am not over rating anything. The Shadow clones survived indra's arrow in the VOTE-2 fight. You can check out the fight in anime.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 2) Doubt it. You're actually putting yourself in a corner, if you're saying Naruto clones > Limbo then are you saying that Naruto can beat Juubidara in terms of taijutsu? There was no ninjutsu involved. You're off somewhere and you know it. It's pretty clear Madara's limbo clones defeated Naruto's considering Madara used them again to surround team 7. Especially since Naruto didn't use clones again as a response, so if Madara used them against Naruto again and the whole team 7, Limbo clones had zero damage after tussling with Naruto's clones and Naruto didn't bother with using clones against them again, what does that tell you? Why would Madara bother with Limbo if it proved ineffective? Clearly the Limbo clones > Naruto's shadow clones. But you're gonna look for something inaccurate to make a false point. You do it everytime, face facts and learn to infer. Just because the manga doesn't flat out say something doesn't mean it isn't so if manga feats make it more than obvious.

      I beg to differ especially when Naruto had sealed quite a few of them and was involved with others in fighting them in taijutsu. And yes I mean that naruto could actually beat jubidaara in terms of taijutsu but his OP healing is gonna be a significant factor in such confrontation. The reason why naruto didn't use shadow clones ,Well for starters Madara didn't get second chance to use limbo since he was backstabbed by BZ and before he was backstabbed he was talking to team-7.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 3) Running away? Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ran away from Naruto and Sasuke? LOL. He casually made a CT that was leagues better than Nagato's and it took both Naruto and Sasuke to take out those CT while Madara called them raindrops. Yeah he was "running away." Sasuke even noted that they wouldn't stop coming. It's more than obvious he flew upwards to actually complete what he set out to do (IT.) and to attain the Rinne Sharingan. Especially considering he came back and said he was done toying with them. You can't debate this, they'd get wrecked.

      So before this scenario of rain drops What was madara doing? And What conclusion did he arrive at when he fought the two? And when Sasuke and Naruto tried to stop Madara He escaped by using Limbo which were matched by Shadow clones. When Madara realized that limbo couldn't buy him enough time he uses the CT which were also being destroyed by the duo but it was taking time . The time which madara needed to cast IT.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      Are you serious right now? Hagoromo gained BOTH his Rinnegan and MS on his forehead just before fighting Kaguya because he essentially killed his brother but revived him with the tag the toad gave him. Do you pay attention at all? Either you have something against Madara or you're just heavily misinformed. You're the same person who thought EMS Madara didn't have PS. Lol.
      IT's really annoying when you keep claiming that I am heavily misinformed when you keep using non-canon stuff to prove your point. I don't have anything against madara. And that's funny that you would bring EMS madara here especially considering people agreed with me in the thread abt EMS madara.

      XShadyShadow wrote: @QuakingStar Base Hagoromo is better than base Madara, but once again in terms of chakra. Doubt it for actual skill and taijutsu. In terms of TTJ it's literally the same story, Hagoromo has the better chakra easily while it's literally the same for Madara in terms of dojutsu and taijutsu.

      You keep claiming this but you forget that Hagoromo was the one who fought Kaguya in base with his bro. That's leagues ahead of madara has done anything in his base.
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    • @Namikazenaruto9 "A Rinnegan holder can open dimensions." See the difference? Sasuke can make a portal to GET to Kaguyas dimension, Kaguya literally changes the entirety of the landscape to HER dimension in which she controls. Sasuke can only enter or leave said dimension, he doesn't have one of his own. Not only that but it's incredibly taxing for Sasuke to even do that, he only has two tries at best. And actually yes the Rinne Sharingan can save you from a path, it's called changing the dimension to either where you and your jutsu fall in lava or get pinned in her desert realm where she can one-shot you and it with ease. It's whichever way you wanna die. The only reason Sasuke lived was because he had PS that could fly, that's a MS ability not a Rinnegan one. And yes, I'm gonna continue to use Sasuke and Kaguya because it's the only interaction we've seen of Rinne Sharingan and Rinnegan against one another. Don't you get it? She doesn't need to grab Sasuke, or anyone for that sake to teleport them. She can change the landscape to her dimension. And like I said before, the Rinne Sharingan has planetary level feats. The Rinnegan does not, by scaling that makes it stronger. Having resistance against it doesn't exactly make you better, the Rinne Sharingan has better potency. Experience can't negate that big of a power gap so saying Sasuke was new with his Rinnegan is irrelevant.

      1) You are overrating Shadow clones, you previously said they could use devastating ninjutsu but now you're talking about a shadow clones durability?? Stay on topic, they only gain a portion of the original users power. Them being durable isn't the same as them doing "devastating ninjutsu." You're overrating shadow clones, severely underestimating the Rinne Sharingan by not acknowledging it's superiority over other dojutsu, and downplaying Madara's Limbo. Sasuke himself said that his and Naruto's physical attacks don't work on Limbo.

      2) First and foremost, Naruto had only sealed one not a few but it wasn't Naruto's doing. Naruto and Sasuke both incapacitated it because they blitz(Sasuke's Ameno.) Madara with a sealing jutsu but Madara swapped himself out for his Limbo. Naruto+Sasuke >> Naruto clones. No Naruto cannot beat Madara in terms of taijutsu. Madara did get a second chance to use Limbo, Sasuke said they were surrounding him and Naruto before the whole BZ thing happened. Also, Madara >> Naruto taijutsu in base. Right? Madara being a TTJ+Sage mode is better than Naruto's six paths sage mode. Madara blocked SSP Naruto's attack while being severely beaten and wounded by Eight gates gai. You have to agree or else you retract your argument about Hagoromo being better than Madara because of his base.

      3) See you need to pay attention, notice how I said "Dual Rinnegan Madara." Not one Rinnegan Madara so that's fairly irrelevant. And your statement makes no sense, Madara casted CT and sent Limbo's at them at the same time. So how would Madara think Limbo wouldn't be a good enough distraction if he literally used them both in conjuction? If Madara's Limbo weren't a threat then Sasuke wouldn't have warned Naruto about them being outside, if they weren't a threat then Naruto would've used his shadow clones against them again in the end (He didn't and wouldn't because Naruto realized that would be a waste of chakra.) If they weren't a threat Naruto's clones would've beat them and Madara wouldn't have used them if ineffective. Sasuke has also once again said that Naruto and his own physical attacks don't work on Limbo. I can keep telling you ways how you're wrong. Exactly, it took both Naruto and Sasuke to destroy something Madara casually created and thought of as raindrops, keep proving my point.

      4) You are misinformed and I've used everything canon to inform you. What're you talking about? What non-canon have I used while debating you? Don't worry, I'll wait. No one agreed with you regarding Madara not having PS, Bakumatsu joined in and thought it was retarded that some people actually believed EMS Madara didn't have PS. You just keep making up stuff or what you're saying is flat out wrong. Killer723 disagreed with you too. You know what annoys me? Having to constantly rehash many things to you that the manga has made clear.

      5)It doesn't matter. Why? Because he was using his two Rinnegan and MS. He got a power up beforehand, that was the powerup. If he fought Kaguya with his brother with a bare Sharingan or without MS or Rinnegan then I'd give that to you because that means they won without haxed eyes therefore pointing to his base attributes/taijutsu but that's not the case. Hagoromo fighting Kaguya with his brother when he has two Rinnegan and a MS says nothing about about his taijutsu. Him being an Ootsuki gives him strong chakra, yet says nothing about his taijutsu once again. It's not that I'm forgetting anything, it's the simple fact that you are by not acknowledging Hagoromo got an eye power up before fighting her.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote:

      @Namikazenaruto9 "A Rinnegan holder can open dimensions." See the difference? Sasuke can make a portal to GET to Kaguyas dimension, Kaguya literally changes the entirety of the landscape to HER dimension in which she controls. Sasuke can only enter or leave said dimension, he doesn't have one of his own. Not only that but it's incredibly taxing for Sasuke to even do that, he only has two tries at best.
      No idea why you are talking about chakra reserves. But whatever floats your boat bro.
      The dimensions were said to have been created by Kaguya herself, the ability to create them has nothing to do with actually interchanging with them which is the actual ability of the Rinne-sharingan. Rinnegan can do that too is the thing I am pointing out and if sasuke had the ability during Kaguya's fight he could have escaped any of her dimension.
      And What about Limbo,Ameno, Momoshiki's Rinnegan? aren't they OP compared to Rinne-Sharingan?
      EDIT: Sasuke survived because of HAWK not PS. So you are wrong abt MS thing.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      And actually yes the Rinne Sharingan can save you from a path, it's called changing the dimension to either where you and your jutsu fall in lava or get pinned in her desert realm where she can one-shot you and it with ease. It's whichever way you wanna die. The only reason Sasuke lived was because he had PS that could fly, that's a MS ability not a Rinnegan one.
      I believe I addressed this one in my previous reply. Sasuke too can escape the dimension by opening portals. And Two I don't think Rinne Sharingan would save you from Deva Path. Kaguya would be forced to use brute force to escape sasuke. Rinne-Sharingan won't allow her to escape from it.

      XShadyShadow wrote: And yes, I'm gonna continue to use Sasuke and Kaguya because it's the only interaction we've seen of Rinne Sharingan and Rinnegan against one another. Don't you get it? She doesn't need to grab Sasuke, or anyone for that sake to teleport them. She can change the landscape to her dimension. And like I said before, the Rinne Sharingan has planetary level feats. The Rinnegan does not, by scaling that makes it stronger. Having resistance against it doesn't exactly make you better, the Rinne Sharingan has better potency. Experience can't negate that big of a power gap so saying Sasuke was new with his Rinnegan is irrelevant.

      Come on bro seriously? Rinne-Sharingan feats could be easily replicated by someone with Rinnegan and High amount of Chakra. That's what I have been trying to establish here all this time. And by taking team-7 Vs Kaguya fight you are already weakening your case since sasuke didn't had experience or the chakra to do the feats.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      1) You are overrating Shadow clones, you previously said they could use devastating ninjutsu but now you're talking about a shadow clones durability?? Stay on topic, they only gain a portion of the original users power. Them being durable isn't the same as them doing "devastating ninjutsu." You're overrating shadow clones, severely underestimating the Rinne Sharingan by not acknowledging it's superiority over other dojutsu, and downplaying Madara's Limbo. Sasuke himself said that his and Naruto's physical attacks don't work on Limbo.

      Well in your previous reply you wrote something on the lines that "shadow clones dissipate on being hit with sufficient force", And my counter was it's not true after Naruto actually got SPSM. His clones in VOTE-2 survived Indra' arrow, A durability feat.
      In comparing the limbo and shadow clones I said Shadow clones are superior because they can use ninjutsu too. Sasuke only mentioned that only six-paths attack effect the limbo not physical. The sword isn't six-paths.
      And yes I am staying on topic.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 2) First and foremost, Naruto had only sealed one not a few but it wasn't Naruto's doing. Naruto and Sasuke both incapacitated it because they blitz(Sasuke's Ameno.) Madara with a sealing jutsu but Madara swapped himself out for his Limbo. Naruto+Sasuke >> Naruto clones. No Naruto cannot beat Madara in terms of taijutsu. Madara did get a second chance to use Limbo, Sasuke said they were surrounding him and Naruto before the whole BZ thing happened. Also, Madara >> Naruto taijutsu in base. Right? Madara being a TTJ+Sage mode is better than Naruto's six paths sage mode. Madara blocked SSP Naruto's attack while being severely beaten and wounded by Eight gates gai. You have to agree or else you retract your argument about Hagoromo being better than Madara because of his base.

      And why should I retract my argument?
      Naruto easily kept up with Madara after power-up. Let's keep this madara vs Naruto and sasuke aside since it will unnecessarily prolong the debate.
      Since we are talking about limbo I should point out that shadow clones most probably suffered their fate because of IT and not defeat. Since their is no panel depicting that I cannot say for sure which was stronger.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 3) See you need to pay attention, notice how I said "Dual Rinnegan Madara." Not one Rinnegan Madara so that's fairly irrelevant. And your statement makes no sense, Madara casted CT and sent Limbo's at them at the same time. So how would Madara think Limbo wouldn't be a good enough distraction if he literally used them both in conjuction? If Madara's Limbo weren't a threat then Sasuke wouldn't have warned Naruto about them being outside, if they weren't a threat then Naruto would've used his shadow clones against them again in the end (He didn't and wouldn't because Naruto realized that would be a waste of chakra.) If they weren't a threat Naruto's clones would've beat them and Madara wouldn't have used them if ineffective. Sasuke has also once again said that Naruto and his own physical attacks don't work on Limbo. I can keep telling you ways how you're wrong. Exactly, it took both Naruto and Sasuke to destroy something Madara casually created and thought of as raindrops, keep proving my point.

      Oh so does that increase madara's strength?(other than limbo but since we are already debating that), If Naruto and sasuke were kicking his butt with single rinnegan it's more than obvious they could do it with madara having both, And Madara wasn't better than Naruto in taijutsu after power-up. When did Madara said that? Because I didn't find the panel. was it after IT?

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      4) You are misinformed and I've used everything canon to inform you. What're you talking about? What non-canon have I used while debating you? Don't worry, I'll wait.
      Well let see for starters..

      Hagoromo having MS? And you calling it a power-up.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      No one agreed with you regarding Madara not having PS, Bakumatsu joined in and thought it was retarded that some people actually believed EMS Madara didn't have PS. You just keep making up stuff or what you're saying is flat out wrong. Killer723 disagreed with you too. You know what annoys me? Having to constantly rehash many things to you that the manga has made clear.
      How about you go to appropriate thread and check out yourself? I did give you thread link last time plus it's not worth discussing here.

      XShadyShadow wrote: 5)It doesn't matter. Why? Because he was using his two Rinnegan and MS. He got a power up beforehand, that was the powerup. If he fought Kaguya with his brother with a bare Sharingan or without MS or Rinnegan then I'd give that to you because that means they won without haxed eyes therefore pointing to his base attributes/taijutsu but that's not the case. Hagoromo fighting Kaguya with his brother when he has two Rinnegan and a MS says nothing about about his taijutsu. Him being an Ootsuki gives him strong chakra, yet says nothing about his taijutsu once again. It's not that I'm forgetting anything, it's the simple fact that you are by not acknowledging Hagoromo got an eye power up before fighting her.

      And all this is based on a filler? Great.
      And Seriously He fought Kaguya whose taijutsu demolished PS and you still believe that Madara is stronger in Taijutsu and other ninja ability?

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    • Hamura may have insane tajjutsu,while hag is better at other aspects?See my point?We have no feats for hag.Also sasukes rinnegan isnt an ordinary rinnegan.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Hamura may have insane tajjutsu,while hag is better at other aspects?See my point?We have no feats for hag.Also sasukes rinnegan isnt an ordinary rinnegan.

      Well you could complain abt that. But even if you say other attributes that includes Ninjutsu etc. That would still make Hagoromo better and besides even Hagoromo 's rinnegan isn't ordinary.
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    • Yes it is.Its called rinnegan,he just has better mastery over it.Sasukes rinnegan is called TOMOE rinnegan.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Yes it is.Its called rinnegan,he just has better mastery over it.Sasukes rinnegan is called TOMOE rinnegan.

      And Hagoromo's Rinnegan is called Kekkei Mora.
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    • Didnt meant the third eye,but the other two.

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    • Which third eye are you talking about?

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    • Sealed one.

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    • That's not rinnegan.
      And Besides DB put his rinnegan in the same category as Kaguya's Rinne-Sharingan/Byakugan

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    • I stated this when you said that RS is weaker than the rinnegan by saying sasuke can open portals and i said that he does not have an ordinary rinnegan.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: I stated this when you said that RS is weaker than the rinnegan by saying sasuke can open portals and i said that he does not have an ordinary rinnegan.

      Even Momoshiki was able to do that.
      It's clear rinnegan can do that, Also Hagoromo 's rinnegan was special.

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    • With the pills.

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    • what pills?

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    • The ones he used to go trough dimensions?

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    • lack of chakra isn't the issue here, cross Dimension traveling can be done by the rinnegan is the point here.

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    • Nagato wasnt able to,madara wasnt able to,only sasuke was with his Tomoe rinnegan.Momoshiki needed pills.

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    • Momoshiki has his own Rinnegan techs.. absorb and amplify, then expel chakra/ninjutsu, and space-time tech.. Sasuke has Amenotejikara and the space time travel tech, Madara had Limbo and Tengai Shinsei, Hagoromo had the undead soul summoning tech and the creation of all things tech. Nagato(if he actually knew about them) would have used Limbo and Tengai Shinsei but plot demanded he had no knowledge of them. That solve it?

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Momoshiki has his own Rinnegan techs.. absorb and amplify, then expel chakra/ninjutsu, and space-time tech.. Sasuke has Amenotejikara and the space time travel tech, Madara had Limbo and Tengai Shinsei, Hagoromo had the undead soul summoning tech and the creation of all things tech. Nagato(if he actually knew about them) would have used Limbo and Tengai Shinsei but plot demanded he had no knowledge of them. That solve it?

      Yeah,since people here assume everyone can go trough kaguyas dimensions,only sasuke could cause rinnegan gave him that ability.Also about nagato not being able to use TS and limbo...he would be way too overpowered LOL.

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    • its funny to think bout it, since we don't any of those things fro sure... like, at all lol.

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    • @NamikazeNaruto9 Yeah I'm clearly wasting my time debating with you. You literally just said if Sasuke and Naruto were beating Madara with one Rinnegan then they can clearly beat Madara with another Rinnegan powerup. That is by far the most illogical thing I've ever read, especially considering Madara made a CT leagues above Sasuke's and Nagatos upon obtaining it and yes Madara compared his CT to raindrops. You keep going in circles that with arguments that aren't making much sense but you don't realize it. Also, what does Kaguya's taijutsu destroying a PS have to do with Hagoromo? That's a feat for Kaguya not Hagoromo. You can't even scale him off of that because like I said before I'm sure that she was beaten with useage of dojutsu prowess. Of course someone would believe Madara is superior in taijutsu considering their is 5 of him essentially, and he actually has established taijutsu feats that are very good.

      How about I go to the appropiate thread? If I didn't do that then how would I be able to list two people to you that disagreed with you while you haven't named even one person that agreed? The burden of proof regarding that is on you. And I don't know what to tell you, the Rinne Sharingan is above the Rinnegan in terms of destructive capabilities and it's scaling. I dunno how you're trying to disagree with manga feats/facts but okay.

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    • XShadyShadow wrote:

      @NamikazeNaruto9 Yeah I'm clearly wasting my time debating with you. You literally just said if Sasuke and Naruto were beating Madara with one Rinnegan then they can clearly beat Madara with another Rinnegan powerup. That is by far the most illogical thing I've ever read, especially considering Madara made a CT leagues above Sasuke's and Nagatos upon obtaining it and yes Madara compared his CT to raindrops.

      Well XShadyShadow
      Think of the fight in this manner, After obtaining the second rinnegan did Madara get chakra boost? Or maybe new abilities? No he didn't. He only got extra 4 limbo(or 8 I don't remember the number) Which may or may-not be superior to shadow clones other than that the dual rinnegan madara is pretty much the same.
      And of course Madara use of CT would be superior to Nagato or sasuke considering he was TTJ at that time. So I don't see the validity of your argument.
      I am still waiting for the "raindrop panel". I am quite sure that Madara didn't call them raindrop especially since he was focused on casting IT rather than talking.

      XShadyShadow wrote:

      You keep going in circles that with arguments that aren't making much sense but you don't realize it. Also, what does Kaguya's taijutsu destroying a PS have to do with Hagoromo? That's a feat for Kaguya not Hagoromo. You can't even scale him off of that because like I said before I'm sure that she was beaten with useage of dojutsu prowess. Of course someone would believe Madara is superior in taijutsu considering their is 5 of him essentially, and he actually has established taijutsu feats that are very good.

      I don't go in circles. I just like to verify before going to next step.
      I pointed out that feat because Hagoromo fought far superior opponent compared to madara throughout his lifetime(excluding when he was TTJ) And he came out of it alive. Madara's prowess in base doesn't even close to that fight. whether you take his fight with Hashirama or TB or anything else. Also Hagoromo(not alone) Defeated Full powered Kaguya unlike the time when team-7 fought her(she was missing Kurama's major chunk) And all I am pointing out is that This feat is much above than any of madara's feat.
      Also I still think Hagoromo could fight Madara with shadow clones.

      XShadyShadow wrote: How about I go to the appropiate thread? If I didn't do that then how would I be able to list two people to you that disagreed with you while you haven't named even one person that agreed? The burden of proof regarding that is on you. And I don't know what to tell you, the Rinne Sharingan is above the Rinnegan in terms of destructive capabilities and it's scaling. I dunno how you're trying to disagree with manga feats/facts but okay.

      You are still goin about that thread?(*sigh)

      Why don't you try to disprove with feats when I clearly showed you that Rinne-Sharingan doesn't has specialized techs unlike Rinnegan. Rinnegan can do all of what Rinne-Sharingan can do, But Rinne-Sharingan cannot do what Rinnegan can. Or one can put it this way simply Rinnegan is lot more versatile than Rinne-Sharingan The power difference you are claiming has nothing to do with dojutsu's power but the amount of chakra. Unless Rinne-Sharingan abilities are retconned I am not gonna change my stand.

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    • just go watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8vMbYLvC5M i did write a comment but i needed to register so it was deleted so yeah just watch the video

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    • That guy(seththeprogrammer) mixes cannon with his own head cannon to make sense of something lol.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: That guy(seththeprogrammer) mixes cannon with his own head cannon to make sense of something lol.

      that may be true however that dose not change the fact that he gave chakra to the world and in his prime he would still have all the chakra on earth and well you know the ten tails so yeah Hagoromo still wins agents Madara

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    • Makes no sense,how does having more chakra make hagoromo win????

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    • because he can do more crazy stuff like dropping a moon on Madara or the expansive truth seeking orb not to sure if he can use eto but still moon being dropped on him

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    • Saotransformer wrote: because he can do more crazy stuff like dropping a moon on Madara or the expansive truth seeking orb not to sure if he can use eto but still moon being dropped on him

      He can not use ETSB,nor can he drop a moon on him.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Saotransformer wrote: because he can do more crazy stuff like dropping a moon on Madara or the expansive truth seeking orb not to sure if he can use eto but still moon being dropped on him

      He can not use ETSB,nor can he drop a moon on him.

      but he made a moon with his brother and it was stated in the anime that he could make a moon like ball of rock by Nagato plus the ten tails complete power that he received after becoming it's jinchuuriki and well it did laid waste to the planet before it was stopped by Hagoromo and his brother the ten tails is at least large island level if you watch the episode then you see the size difference between the massive fire pit or what ever that was and to the land around it not only that but Madara was almost killed by 8 gates Guy so small moon or large island fire thing could kill him and if that fails then Hagoromo simply has more experience with the truth seeking balls. In the seen when Obito made a sword that looks like a strand of DNA, he said that it is the sword that a hermit (Hagoromo) used to make the world (by this i belive he means ninshu not the planet itself) and then theirs that shield. so Hagoromo has more experience with Madara's greatest weapon the tsb. however Madara still has his jutsu's but Hagorormo can just fly out of the way or mach it with a far more powerful version of the same jutsu seeing as he mastered the five chakra releases and can probity use dust releases seeing has how he can use fire, wind and earth releases. Finally you Mr Kakashisologod1 do not provide any evidence agent the things that i say also Hagoromo wins agent Madara because of the things a said above

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    • Again WITH his brother,NOT ALONE.Sure 1 eyed TTJ madara was nearly killed,but we are using the three eyed madara here.Dont use anime as evidence,use manga since it was written by an author.

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    • ok then look at the comment above mine Namikazenaruto9s also the seen when the massive fire pits were seen that is in the manga and again with picking at one point in my argument which is "oh its with his brother, NOT ALONE" also you forgot a space any way doesn't Hagoromo also have two rinnegan and rinnesharingan i don't see how having the same eyes has Hagoromo makes Madara win

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    • They do not have the same eyes,madara has rinnesharingan,while hags is sealed.

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    • wait so Hagoromo can just unseal his and then they will have the same eyes if not can you tell me who sealed his rinnesharingan and provide evidence

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    • Saotransformer wrote: wait so Hagoromo can just unseal his and then they will have the same eyes if not can you tell me who sealed his rinnesharingan and provide evidence

      It clearly is not the same and he did that so he would not become the next kaguya.

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    • how is it not the same and if he did it him self then he can remove the seal so yes they do have the same eyes

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    • Saotransformer wrote: how is it not the same and if he did it him self then he can remove the seal so yes they do have the same eyes

      Did he do that himself?

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Saotransformer wrote: how is it not the same and if he did it him self then he can remove the seal so yes they do have the same eyes

      Did he do that himself?

      he sealed hi's own rinne sharingan so why can't he just unseal it and then they have the same eyes

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    • Saotransformer wrote:

      Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Saotransformer wrote: how is it not the same and if he did it him self then he can remove the seal so yes they do have the same eyes

      Did he do that himself?

      he sealed hi's own rinne sharingan so why can't he just unseal it and then they have the same eyes

      Why cant madara just ask for help?

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Saotransformer wrote:

      Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Saotransformer wrote: how is it not the same and if he did it him self then he can remove the seal so yes they do have the same eyes

      Did he do that himself?

      he sealed hi's own rinne sharingan so why can't he just unseal it and then they have the same eyes

      Why cant madara just ask for help?

      because its a one on one fight and a don't see the connection between asking for help and unsealing your own power that power being the rinne sharingan

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    • We can only use WHAT WE SAW,not what can happen lol.

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    • As far as we're aware, Hagoromo does not have the Rinne Sharingan. Everything else is just speculation.

      We haven't seen Madara use more than IT either, so it's questionable if he has full control over all of Kaguya's power, especially since Kaguya was already influencing him pretty hard.

      Even so, Hagoromo could do stuff Madara never even hinted at, like summoning the ghosts of the previous Kage without DNA and without hosts. or appearing as a spirit being, physically transmigrating into the world.

      In the end i think Hagoromo wins because it's his power, power he's had since birth and power he's been able to refine however much he needed. Madara only just achieved this power, which gives Hagoromo the advantage.

      We've seen Hagoromo being able to create both halves of the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, so Hagoromo has a confirmed way to defeat Madara.

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    • @Thekillman can you tell this guy that hag cant use ETSB.

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    • Seelentau
      Seelentau removed this reply because:
      ~
      22:55, January 10, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Hagoromo stomps.

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