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  • On other wikis Kaguya is said to be Planet level but she should be far higher and here is why, she created 6 dimensions each with a planet and a star. Considering her ETSB was going to wipe out the entire dimension it should be a Star+ level attack considering it would wipe out the planet the moon, the space in between the planet and the star, and the star itself, what do you guys think?

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    • I think dimension in this context simply meant planet. Considering what a TSB can do, she was probably going to atomize and recreate it from scratch.

      She's definitely planet level though.

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    • I disagree she should be far higher than planet level

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    • No one confuses "Dimension" with "Planet" and the two aren't synonyms. Her ETSB is much greater than planet level.

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    • Well, the problem is that we don't know for sure if "dimension" = "planet" in the Naruto universe, though it was often implied that's the case.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: No one confuses "Dimension" with "Planet" and the two aren't synonyms

      We travel to her dimensions, which then turn out to be planets. It's not clear if they're all in the same star system either. So what then is her dimension exactly? The planets themselves? The entire star system? Is it the same star system as the Shinobi planet?

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    • Let me guess. You are following the Versus Battles Wiki's logic. That wiki literally is going through havoc and the Naruto calcs are being done over again because people are either too deluded or too generous with the Naruto characters. We don't even know if Kaguya even created those dimensions she teleported to. Also, we don't know how destructive it really is. For all we know, the whole turning the world into nothing and reshape can be just a hyperbole. It could just be meant as the power its destructive capabilities is so great that it would seem that world would be destroyed, and by world I mean Earth. Even then it will take a long time to even create it.

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    • dimension, as I thought, means a universe (I looked it up). if she was lying or not, is the problem

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    • Thekillman wrote: We travel to her dimensions, which then turn out to be planets. It's not clear if they're all in the same star system either. So what then is her dimension exactly?

      Where else would they land by traveling to another dimension if not a planet?

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    • A big problem of believing that she could destroy the universe with that technique is to mean she has done it before, which is bs on its own.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: dimension, as I thought, means a universe (I looked it up). if she was lying or not, is the problem

      A dimension doesn't have to be an entire universe. Look at the Kamui dimension, it obviously isn't an entire universe

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    • how do u know? it has not roof/sealing. it has matter. people can live in it.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: how do u know? it has not roof/sealing. it has matter. people can live in it.

      It's still not an universe....

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    • Kamui's Dimension is more like a small planet. We have no proof to even believe there is more out there to even consider it being a universe. Come on now. Stop grasping onto straws that's not even there.

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    • funny. u cant say for sure that the kamui ISNT a universe, now, can u?

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    • Neither can u. Literally not every definition of dimension means universe. It can easily translate to world, which can also be another way of saying planet.

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    • I quit... whatever man... can she, or can she not destroy an universe? by logic of the tsb, yes.. by power scaling of what we've seen from her, no... that's my final answer.

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    • DB4 calls the parallel time-spaces her dimensions. In the manga Kaguya says "this is my time-space", we later find out Kaguya can create new time-space's. Momoshiki who is weaker than Kaguya as he was trying to attain her power was stated to have created a parallel time-space in the Boruto movie novel "He was even draining the chakra that was beyond the parallel dimension he’d made."

      Hence we know Kaguya created the parallel time-space's.


      Kaguyas parallel time-space's can be confirmed to be atleast the size of a Solar System for these reasons,


      Kaguya showed no fatigue and grew more powerful after destroying and then creating a time-space which is at least the size of a Solar System.

      She is capable of instantly rewriting the time-space of any of her 6 parallel time-space's which are at least the size of a Solar System.


      So Kaguya is at least Solar System level+, after all Kaguya is on a whole different level than the Ten Tails which literally is the planet, and has multiple moon to planet level feats.


      The downplay that the Naruto verse gets is pretty severe.

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    • Kaguya saying "This is my time-space", can easily just mean territory, or something she is familiar with. If she's solar system level, she should easily been able to handle Naruto and Sasuke. It is clear that Kaguya has high chakra. Her not showing fatigue is not shocking, and even so the ETSB was powered by hundreds and hundreds of shinobi, so I doubt she was doing that much work. Considering no one in the series has ever shown to be even planet level, are we to just believe she is solar system level. I swear the overrating the Narutoverse is pretty severe.

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    • She did show fatigue that is the reason she went to her main dimension so there is that and then she has done this before because this is the method used to recreate dimensions which is why BZ knew what was going to happen solar system is on the higher end but Star is on the lower end.

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    • So you are telling me that a solar system-level god couldn't easily wipe the floor with Naruto and Sasuke who are at best moon level. I don't think so. Kaguya is severely hyped. We don't have enough proof to believe that she created those dimensions. Like I said, her calling it her time-space can easily mean her territory or place of familiarity. For deluded fans, she is solar system level high end and star level low end. If it was as so obvious as you guys fight so hard to point out, we would already include it here, but we don't because we follow facts.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: So you are telling me that a solar system-level god couldn't easily wipe the floor with Naruto and Sasuke who are best moon level. I don't think so. Kaguya is severely hyped. Yea try again. She did not create those dimensions. For deluded fans, she is solar system level high end and star level low end. If it was as you guys fight so hard to point out, we would already include it here, but we don't because we know follow facts.

      Lol, what makes you say Naruto and Sasuke are at best moon level? They had both just received power-ups from Hagoromo. The Ten Tails literally is the planet.

      You did not refute a single one of my points... you're just downplaying.

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    • I think we should close this thread. This is just a bunch of nonsense, fanon bs.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: I think we should close this thread. This is just a bunch of nonsense, fanon bs.

      You're downplaying since you cannot refute a single one of my points. Kinshiki was stated to be capable of splitting planets too.

      In the manga Kaguya says "this is my time-space", we later find out Kaguya can create new time-space's. It's insane nonsense to say she did not create the parallel time-spaces adding the consideration that Momoshiki who is weaker than her was stated to be capable of. Regardless if she created them or not it doesn't matter.

      Kaguya showed no fatigue and grew more powerful after destroying and then creating a time-space which is at least the size of a Solar System.

      She is capable of instantly rewriting the time-space of any of the 6 parallel time-space's which are at least the size of a Solar System.

      Close this thread when you have actual evidence to the contrary. Rather than just calling it fanon bs..

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    • And Madara's Susanoo was stated to be able to reshape the universe. The Sword of Nunoboko was said to be able to do the same. Until she has actually shown to do it, words are just words. We can sure speculate, but that's about it. Rewriting or switching, because they are two separate things. If she could as easily create dimension, why not easily create an attack that would obliterate everyone, and if the ETSB is her best bet, that is just pathetic because she also needs the chakra of the people too. Also, how would Kakashi even know that she "rewrite" the world. If she rewrite the world in an instant, why couldn't she have easily taken them down. Easy because she can't. So why don't you go and bring this mumbo jumbo stuff to the Naruto Fanon Wiki or that trash wiki, Versus Battles Wiki.

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    • Madara's Susano'o was actually stated to be capable of "reshaping all things in nature". Which is in line with the Ten Tails being stated to literally be the planet, the Sword of Nunoboko which was stated to be capable of destroying the planet, and Kinshiki who can split planets. Plus we have multiple moon to small-planet size explosions.

      Kaguya is only Solar System level with the ETSB and likely reality warping. She is Planet level+ in all other regards.

      You're also forgetting that Kaguya didn't want to kill Naruto and Sasuke. She wanted to take their chakra...

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    • DC52 wrote: You're downplaying since you cannot refute a single one of my points. Kinshiki was stated to be too.

      Thats a hyperbole. Also, I don't recall the ten tails having any moon level feats.

      Why are you allowed to post links to manga panels? Is there a loop hole I can take advantage of?

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote:

      DC52 wrote: You're downplaying since you cannot refute a single one of my points. Kinshiki was stated to be too.

      Thats a hyperbole. Also, I don't recall the ten tails having any moon level feats.

      Why are you allowed to post links to manga panels? Is there a loop hole I can take advantage of?

      You can find the feats here.

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    • Considering that she had trouble defeating Naruto and Sasuke, i seriously doubt that anything beyond planet level is a reasonable assessment of her power.

      As i said before, it's not clear what exactly her dimension is, whether it's the planet, or an entire solar system. But her abilities etc suggest that she's planet level, not solar system level.

      DC52 wrote: Madara's Susano'o was actually stated to be capable of "reshaping all things in nature". Which is in line with the Ten Tails being stated to literally be the planet

      And the ten tails isn't the planet, so you just undermined your own logic.

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    • ... the extent of her dimensions is known.

      Kaguyas parallel time-space's can be confirmed to be atleast the size of a Solar System for these reasons,

      Pertaining to the Ten Tails "imagine... the very earth and water that compromise this world... flows within every fiber of its being... its life force is that of the planet". Hagoromo said that the revival of the Ten Tails would signify the end of the world. The Ten Tails is the progenitor of all that exists in this world. It is said that the Ten-Tails split open the Earth and drank Oceans.

      Second form Ten Tails was shown as a mass of chakra the size of a small planet.

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    • DC52 wrote: You can find the feats here.

      I get the ten tails was said to have the chakra of a small planet but what I'm saying is that it hasn't shown any moon level feats. But more importantly, why are you allowed to post links to manga panels??

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    • Almost nobody in the Narutoverse has displayed planet level feats, and yet want to believe a character is solar system level. All we have is speculations. He said, she said, blah blah blah, but with no receipts.

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    • Well, here are the numerous moon to small planet size explosions. The problem is that for some reason you cant accept what Kishimoto wrote many many times. It's not some passing statement which should be disregarded.

      Those explosions would be planet size going by the calculation which puts the Naruto planet at a little smaller than Jupiter.

      Believe Kaguya is Solar System level...? The ETSB was the start of a new time-space which we know to be at least the size of a Solar System.

      Plus I should mention that Momoshiki has a Star to Solar System level, and a Solar System level feat in the Boruto Movie novel.

      Anyways, i'm done with this argument for now. The downplay is strong with Naruto.

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    • Well clearly me and the majority on the wiki can't accept these apparent facts then. Also, I looked at them, those explosions may at best be moon level, and not even all of them, and how exactly do you even suggest that that means they can be planet to star to solar system level. Those are the only feats you have and at best they are moon level with Kaguya (giving her the benefit of the doubt) planet level. No higher.

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    • DC52 wrote: ... the extent of her dimensions is known.

      Except it's not. For all we know, all planets are in the same star system. There's nothing to suggest that the star seen at each dimension is a different star each time.

      In any case, it's clear that Kaguya's use of "dimension" is absolutely nothing like, say, Obito's dimension. Obito had a weird crystalline world, whereas Kaguya's are honest-to-god planets.

      DC52 wrote: Pertaining to the Ten Tails "imagine... the very earth and water that compromise this world... flows within every fiber of its being... its life force is that of the planet". Hagoromo said that the revival of the Ten Tails would signify the end of the world. The Ten Tails is the progenitor of all that exists in this world. It is said that the Ten-Tails split open the Earth and drank Oceans.

      Second form Ten Tails was shown as a mass of chakra the size of a small planet.

      All sounds like hyperbole to me. Besides, we already know that few shinobi can stand against a Biju, and pretty much nobody could stand against the Ten Tails. So yes, the Ten Tails heralds the end of the world, as in, "the end of shinobi" not "literal destruction of the planet".

      Humanity has enough nukes in the real world to destroy all life yet we're at least a dozen orders of magnitude from actually destroying a planet. Considering the power of similar-level shinobi etc, the Juubi would be the end of life on the surface, not the entire planet.

      It's also not clear what exactly the sensing sphere represents, since nature energy can't be sensed by anyone except sages. Does that mean that the sphere represents people's chakra?

      DC52 wrote: Well, here are the numerous moon to small planet size explosions. The problem is that for some reason you cant accept what Kishimoto wrote many many times. It's not some passing statement which should be disregarded

      Yea no those are not moon sized, not in the Earth moon sense. Not only do these explosions make no sense whatsoever in a realistic context (so any real attempts to calculate energy from size is wrong), their size is perhaps a hundred kilometers high (it doesn't seem to properly reach space). the moon is an order of magnitude bigger than that.

      DC52 wrote: Anyways, i'm done with this argument for now. The downplay is strong with Naruto.

      No, your extrapolations are extremely rough, and you seem to always assume the highest values. Explosion size isn't a very meaningful statistic if you don't know how it correlates to power. In reality, explosion size is related to physical properties. Which is why we can scale explosion power of nukes with each other (but not with other things). Naruto has a bunch of extremely unrealistic explosions (hello, deidara!).

      I've long recognized that Naruto isn't a perfectly self-consistent series. Speeds don't add up, sizes don't add up, strengths don't add up. Consistency is needed to get proper calculations, but you can't get those. Plus, planet scaling is something i've seen across many many fanbases for several shows and i've rarely ever seen anyone get it right. Mostly because space is big, planets are big and it's either hard to get right or impossible to make sense of for the audience. (mostly because at planetary sizes, you wouldn't be able to see much detail. Not even the chinese wall is visible from space, despite the fanatical persistence of this myth).

      DC52 wrote: Those explosions would be planet size going by the calculation which puts the Naruto planet at a little smaller than Jupiter.

      Where does he get his initial scaling from, because i can't find it in the pictures. EDIT: I can crudely approximate the Naruto planet at 17000Km from that first picture, using his scale of 3.76km/pixel. Jupiter size my ass. Since my actual circle tool on paint can't perfectly fit the planet, it also shows that a lens-effect was used. So it's actually comparable to earth. EDIT2:

      Error estimate: Assuming i'm within 1 pixel for a 3-point circle approximation, the error here is about 3 pixels. The picture fills about 1/18th of my circle, so i estimate my error to be 3*18 pixels for the circle shape approximation. Now, my big circle is 4585 pixels and my screengrab is about 700 pixels, so any small error in the screengrab is 6.55 worse in the end result. total error: (three-point approx *shape approx * scale approx *scale)=3*18*6.55*3.76km/pix =1300 km error. Since my circle approximation is slightly bigger than the screengrab (the planet is not a perfect circle in the manga frame) i assume i overestimated the size, which puts it remarkably close to the diameter of the earth.


      EDIT3: just noticed this now: the last calculation:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/NarutoBattleIndex/comments/5gih5y/circumference_of_the_naruto_planet/
      

      says the diameter of the planet is 56000km. the diameter of jupiter is three times that. I don't know why it calculates the circumference and compares that since it makes no sense. I also already proved that that figure is contradicted hard by other panels in the manga.

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    • The databook said her giant gudodama can "return the world to nothing" or something like that, so there's that.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: The databook said her giant gudodama can "return the world to nothing" or something like that, so there's that.

      You want to open the can of worms that are the databooks?

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    • Whatever, i agree she's planet level.

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    • Forget the databooks she created 6 dimensions that have stars in them, Star creation requires the same amount of energy as star destruction again star is a lowball

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    • DC52 wrote:

      In the manga Kaguya says "this is my time-space", we later find out Kaguya can create new time-space's.

      @Rachin123
      I think guy has a point. Kaguya was said to be capable of doing that stuff. Even if we ignore the stuff about the use of ETSB, She did show parallel dimension. And the info abt different time-space cannot be verified otherwise(it's just an info, I think the characters words are enough in this case).

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: @Rachin123
      I think guy has a point. Kaguya was said to be capable of doing that stuff. Even if we ignore the stuff about the use of ETSB, She did show parallel dimension. And the info abt different time-space cannot be verified otherwise(it's just an info, I think the characters words are enough in this case).

      "this is my time space" can mean anything, including "this is my planet" and "this is my solar system". Picking "this is my solar system" is no more valid than "this is my planet".

      We also have no timeframe for the creation of these planets. Her other feats do not put her beyond Planet-level, i already questioned her ability to actually blow up a planet, so what evidence is there that the solar-system end of this extrapolation is true? Cause i don't see any, everything suggests she's at the planet end of the scale.

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    • @Rachin, so can I post manga panels too if they're the viz translation?

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    • we never saw the full powered juubi, besides from kaguya's rabbit transformation. if we saw kaguya go full juubi mode, she would probably be planet lvl just by using juubi bombs/bijuu bullets. now, naruto's super bijuu rasenshuriken's explosion (compared to the planet that he was in) seemed big enough to be moon lvl. I would need to check to be sure, but it sure seemed like it. we haven't moon lvl (or above) feats for stronger or equal powered charcters (madara, sasuke, obito, etc), but im pretty sure they can reach said lvl. if characters like toneri, or even obito were shown/said to be planet lvl, pretty sure the strongest character in the whole show has to be at least planetary system, or above.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      DC52 wrote: ... the extent of her dimensions is known.

      Except it's not. For all we know, all planets are in the same star system. There's nothing to suggest that the star seen at each dimension is a different star each time.

      In any case, it's clear that Kaguya's use of "dimension" is absolutely nothing like, say, Obito's dimension. Obito had a weird crystalline world, whereas Kaguya's are honest-to-god planets.


      That's simply wrong. They were clearly demonstrated as each being parallel. Plus Obito described them as being time space's each just like the Kamui dimension.

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    • do u even what a time space is? its a type of transportation. that comment makes from zero sense, to negative-ten sense.

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    • ... Do you know what time space is? It's a 4D structure like our universe.

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    • Kaguya being planet level is hard to swallow in the first place given what we seen of her, so I really doubt she is even solar system. This discussion is not going to get anywhere so we might as well close it.

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    • im talking bout Naruto. I tried being a smartass once before, by being... well, a smartass, then someone got to me and said "this shit doesn't matter in Naruto".. the same applies here- time space in Naruto= mode of transportation, real time space= 4D structure, as u said. simple

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    • So since no one answered me and no one is reprimanding DC52 from posting viz translations, I'm gonna assume its ok :D.

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    • Sure it's "ok" for you to believe that. Nothing about Kaguya is going change on this wiki though so...

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    • Considering Bijuu destroyed mountains with ease and Naruto knocked out a casual moonbuster with less than full Kurama. Kaguya being a planet buster is not all that crazy considering the Ten Tails makes even Kurama look like a punk ant in comparison.....

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    • Who said Toneri was a casual moon buster? He didn't even destroy the moon, he cut it. If he was as you say, a casual moon buster, he could have easily went to Earth to wreck havoc, instead of using the moon to do the dirty work.

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    • Toneri with Tenseigan cut the moon in half with a sword made of his own chakra. And wasn't feeling ware from it. I don't know how much more casual you can get

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    • Last time I checked. In order to be a moon buster, you have to actually destroy the moon. Cutting it in half doesn't cut it. That's like someone punching a large hole in a mountain and based on your logic, they are mountain busters.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Last time I checked. In order to be a moon buster, you have to actually destroy the moon. Cutting it in half doesn't cut it. That's like someone punching a large hole in a mountain and based on your logic, they are mountain busters.

      Toneri stated that he was going to destroy the planet by crashing the moon into it, and then re-creating the Earth.

      Hence Toneri is Planet level+ via statements/power-scaling, and Moon level+ with telekinesis for being capable of rapidly moving the moon.

      Toneri cutting the moon in half would be ~ multi-continent level. Naruto was capable of casually tanking and no-selling this beam with his hand. That would be a Moon level feat for KSM Naruto which should scale to Toneri.

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    • So does he have to cut it 12 more times for it to count as destroyed?? Because destroyed means damaging something beyond repair and I don't think duct tape will help the moon. There are very few things that can be cut in half and not be considered destroyed and the moon is not one of them.

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    • @DC52

      If he had telekinesis, why didn't he use it against Naruto? I doubt it was that causing the moon to move. Also, you are taking the recreating Earth thing too literal. He could as easily mean take over the Earth, and making it in his own image. Nothing to do with actually being able to create a planet. I mean geez you guys love hyping these characters up.

      @LegionZero

      Yes it does. You make no sense. And if he has to cut it 12 times, that's not a "casual" moon buster. We have no proof how many times he could do that either or if he had any techniques in his arsenal to actually destroy the moon. Like I said, why waste time with the moon if he was already a moon buster, and apparently by your words, a casual moon buster.

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    • Cut anything in half and it is considered destroyed, phone, car, bed. Moon is no different. Chunks of the moon were flying to Earth. Does he have to do multiple slices in one burst for it to be considered destroyed? Does he have to use a tribladed sword and cut the moon in 4 for it to be destroyed?

      no matter how you look at it, he has the destructive force to easily destroy a moon.

      Miriam webster: Definition of destroy

         transitive verb
      
         1:  to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of
      
         2: to put out of existence.
      
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    • Clearly the second one is the more acceptable one we use. When we say destroy the moon, we mean obliterate it into basically nothingness or into a bunch of pieces. Not cut it in half. Based on your logic just because you did damage to something means you are that level. If I punched a hole in a wall, I guess I am a wall level buster, even though I did not completely wreck the wall. I mean geez man.

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    • No, you are a wall buster if you ruin the structural integrity of the wall with your punch.

      Toneri ruined the structural integrity of the moon with ease. He didn't chip a piece off, he cut through its center. The moon is no longer whole. It is no longer in the condition to be considered capable of functioning properly. It is a controlled destruction.

      Now stop cherry picking meanings because it suits your view.

      But I guess Pain didn't destroy the leaf village, he just squished it.

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    • No Pain destroyed the village. The village was no more. Piccolo destroyed the moon, literally. Nobody is cherry picking. You are overrating a feat. He did not "destroy" it, enough to be considered a moon buster. He simply cut it. The moon was not in tact, but it's still the moon. If it were to shattered into a billion pieces or something then we can talk about moon busting. Sorry but that is that. You can go about it all you want, but the truth is there. I mean exactly are you guys trying to accomplish here? Nothing is going to change here. So you might as well go somewhere else with that logic. I suggest the Versus Battles Wiki as they love hyping things up, especially Naruto characters.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Clearly the second one is the more acceptable one we use. When we say destroy the moon, we mean obliterate it into basically nothingness or into a bunch of pieces. Not cut it in half.

      That is cherry picking. Finding the definition of that fits your stance of "bs" without an actual counter arguments. Toneri has shown the destructive force to slice a moon in half with his energy. He also has a technique capable of exceeding the diameter of the moon and passing through it. If that energy were to be condensed and rapidly allowed to expand(explode) it would break to moon into smaller pieces. Regardless of how many pieces of the moon there are, it is still destroyed, because be it 1/2 or 1/1000, it is still incapable of being what it was. Taking a look at the technique it isn't even a sword. It is a hyper focused beam. Explosion is in its name.

      Rachin123 wrote: Kaguya saying "This is my time-space", can easily just mean territory, or something she is familiar with.

      That is a cherry pick. Time-space. A New set of time and space. In no context does time-space mean "place i own."

      Technically, Pain didn't destroy the village. The village was not one solid, connected structure. All he did was push buildings.

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    • DC52 wrote: That's simply wrong. They were clearly demonstrated as each being parallel. Plus Obito described them as being time space's each just like the Kamui dimension.

      I have no idea what you mean by "they are parallel".

      Also, did you just imply Obito can make planets too? Because i'm pretty sure that contextually, Obito meant that she could access these "dimensions" like he can access his.

      DC52 wrote: ... Do you know what time space is? It's a 4D structure like our universe.

      Irrelevant. What Kaguya calls a "dimension" isn't actually a dimension in the physics sense. If it is used in the physics sense then we'd be living in a 5-D (or more) world, meaning that the word "time-space" itself is wrong.

      LegionZero wrote: Considering Bijuu destroyed mountains with ease and Naruto knocked out a casual moonbuster with less than full Kurama.

      I object to the use of "casual" here. The moon in Naruto is a thin shell, not a solid object. The amount of moon Toneri cut is more like a small planetoid (or an upper-level Chibaku Tensei). it's not as far removed from, say, Sasuke cutting Chibaku Tensei with his blade as you make it seem.

      DC52 wrote: Toneri stated that he was going to destroy the planet by crashing the moon into it, and then re-creating the Earth.

      That still does not make him Planet level. Recreating the Earth would be fairly easy, since the moon doesn't really smash the planet that hard from a de-orbit. Sure it would be hot as hell and quite a bit of atmosphere would be burnt off, but it's not like Toneri would have to reconstitute a whole planet from stray atoms.

      Continent level is an appropriate term, i like it. Does he have the power to reshape the surface of the Earth? seems fine by me, comparable to Hagoromo and the Juubi, so it fits.

      LegionZero wrote: That is a cherry pick. Time-space. A New set of time and space. In no context does time-space mean "place i own."

      You do realize that picking one over the other IS a cherry pick either way? Also, yes, in the context Kaguya uses it and in the context of Kamui, Kaguya's use of Time Space most definitely means "place i own".

      LegionZero wrote:

      Technically, Pain didn't destroy the village. The village was not one solid, connected structure. All he did was push buildings.

      Considering that the people lived and rebuilt it, he indeed did not destroy the village, if you consider a village also consists of the people in it.

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    • Yay a post with some substance and counter arguments.

      Dimension can refer to perception, which would be more in line with the concept of 4 and 5 dimensionality.

      However Kaguya creates alternate dimensions in terms of space, she creates an entirely new space where there was none and is said to be capable of destroying and rebuilding a space if need be. Each of these dimensions have at least a star and a planet far enough away to sustain earthlings and far enough away from the edge of the universe that it can't be seen

      Good point on the hollowness of the moon. I checked some clips from the Last and looking at the thickness of the holes they are not very thick at all.

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    • I guess we can conclude that ETSB was going to destroy the whole dimension. but while it would we don't actually know how big is dimension of her is.

      The only person other then Kaguya who we can conclude to travel through each of her planets in a very detailed way would Sasuke. From what we know he had travelled each of her dimensions for like 7 years right? So considering his rinnegen Sharingan combo eye allows him to easily navigate and search through every detail of it's area very easily and also considering he has summons for travel and his natural speed is already equal to SPSM Kurama Cloak Naruto's then he would sketch the whole land faster than any person possible. if 7 years is what it took then.....(I actually don't what to calculate about it. maybe you guys could)

      While Obito's dimension was a pocket dimension it very well could be a rough size of a village as a sqaure dimension. though I also just think it's just palace size dimension if anything cause you know everything it warps kind of conveniently get's just in the right place.

      Kaguya's dimension could very well be of country size too.

      And her ETSB technique makes it seem like she's going to destroy everything in a blink of a second. maybe it could cause major destruction and cause the already artificial dimension to collapse thus slowly destoy the dimension. Example like Amaterasu's potentiel to destroy almost anything, but not instantly.

      Also all the different dimensions could very well be in a single solar system or a dimension.Considering the shinobi world could very well be the biggest dimension.

      And even Momoshinki without some tentails level chakra had a planet of his own. so it could be that Otsutsuki clans like to claim planets for their own. and Kaguya being very strong gained more dimensions than momoshinki.

      Well these are my honest opinions.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Dimension can refer to perception, which would be more in line with the concept of 4 and 5 dimensionality.

      A more proper name would simply have been a parallel reality or a pocket universe, although that tends to create the wrong impression (IE a vast expanse of space, whereas in Obito's case it seems to be more of a rather big room)

      LegionZero wrote: Each of these dimensions have at least a star and a planet far enough away to sustain earthlings and far enough away from the edge of the universe that it can't be seen

      I seriously question the idea that they're all in different star systems. I also serious reservations about whether she was going to actually destroy the time-space or the planet, and how she made it.

      The big problem i have is that it's absolutely not clear how much power it actually costs to make such a dimension. Obito has his own kamui basement, yet when he awoke Kamui it wasn't like he nearly exhausted himself creating the dimension itself. It's not even clear how big it is, since it seems he can enter and exit the dimension from anywhere regardless of his actual position in the Shinobi world or his actual position in the Kamui world. Yet the times we see the kamui dimension, we never see it's edges.

      The second big problem is that we have no idea about the rules regarding the creation of pocket dimensions. According to certain interpretations of Quantum Mechanics, a vacuum can spontaneously form a universe without external input. IE, If obito or kaguya splits off a tiny piece of reality from our own world they can theoretically spawn an entirely new universe.

      The third problem i have is one regarding time. Judging by Obito's basement space, the creation of space-time itself is not energetically that hard. So i can conditionally buy that Kaguya can create large empty spaces. But she had possibly thousands of years to make her own worlds (Which also creates questions such as "why"?). If she's on the higher end of Continent level then periodically dumping some of her excess power into some Earth Release jutsu could easily form a planet in, say, a century.

      The fourth and final big problem i have is mostly one of terminology and context. Kaguya calls the Shinobi World her "seed plot", and i see a strong connection to her "Dimensions". I can easily see that Kaguya simply has Dominion (in the Tolkien sense) over the solar system and considers that her "time space". A big enough star can fit quite a few planets in it's Goldilocks zone, assuming she didn't use any external methods to terraform them (IE if mars spontaneously formed an atmosphere like earth, it would take millions of years for it to revert to modern-day levels).

      The lava planet could easily be the closest to the star, the ice planet furthest. I don't see why it can't fit within one solar system, with Kaguya making either all planets inhabitable or Kishimoto simply using Artistic License (IE like ninja standing in space on the surface of the moon)

      This is why i have such a huge problem with kaguya being solar system level: I see so many variables and so many unknowns.

      LegionZero wrote: Good point on the hollowness of the moon. I checked some clips from the Last and looking at the thickness of the holes they are not very thick at all.

      I was actually shocked how thin it was. But yea, considering what we see Naruto, Sasuke, the Juubi and madara do, Toneri's power is somewhat in line with theirs. It seems to me that Toneri used up most of the Tenseigan's power in one fight, whereas the other characters weren't still at their reserve limits, so i'd say that their levels are roughly comparable.

      So i understand the dispute about whether he "destroyed the moon", i think it's not really the right question to ask.

      Still, i'd like to make clear that a planet is really really big. Despite not seeming so, the difference between "continental" and "planetary" is still huge.

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    • "I have no idea what you mean by "they are parallel".

      Also, did you just imply Obito can make planets too? Because i'm pretty sure that contextually, Obito meant that she could access these "dimensions" like he can access his."

      The panel I linked shows that Sasuke felt Naruto's chakra from a parallel time-space, they aren't all planets in the same time-space.

      "Irrelevant. What Kaguya calls a "dimension" isn't actually a dimension in the physics sense. If it is used in the physics sense then we'd be living in a 5-D (or more) world, meaning that the word "time-space" itself is wrong."

      You must not understand what 5-D is. The fifth dimension is an axis containing all the next possible nows, in a sense it's probability. Each point on that line is a 4-D time-space. What you just said is pure nonsense.

      "That still does not make him Planet level. Recreating the Earth would be fairly easy, since the moon doesn't really smash the planet that hard from a de-orbit. Sure it would be hot as hell and quite a bit of atmosphere would be burnt off, but it's not like Toneri would have to reconstitute a whole planet from stray atoms.

      Continent level is an appropriate term, i like it. Does he have the power to reshape the surface of the Earth? seems fine by me, comparable to Hagoromo and the Juubi, so it fits."

      If i recall correctly Toneri stated that he would reduce the planet to rubble. As iv'e explained before the Juubi has numerous Moon to Planet level feats.

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    • LegionZero wrote: That is cherry picking. Finding the definition of that fits your stance of "bs" without an actual counter arguments. Toneri has shown the destructive force to slice a moon in half with his energy. He also has a technique capable of exceeding the diameter of the moon and passing through it. If that energy were to be condensed and rapidly allowed to expand(explode) it would break to moon into smaller pieces. Regardless of how many pieces of the moon there are, it is still destroyed, because be it 1/2 or 1/1000, it is still incapable of being what it was.

      So now my stance is bs, well so is yours sir. Anyone in their right mind knows by being a moon buster you have to destroy, and by destroy obliterate it. So please stop with this bs change its form bull crap. All it was was cut in half. That does not qualify to being a moon buster. So rather you consider it destroyed, it does not mean he's a moon buster. Come back when he had displayed the ability to destroy the moon as Piccolo who is a casual moon buster.

      LegionZero wrote: That is a cherry pick. Time-space. A New set of time and space. In no context does time-space mean "place i own."

      Technically, Pain didn't destroy the village. The village was not one solid, connected structure. All he did was push buildings.

      As explained by @thekillman, giving the context, it can mean "place of my own". Doesn't mean she created it. And if I'm cherry picking, so are you. Was the village still in tact or was it in ruins. Hence destroyed. If Toneri destroyed the moon, it would here on the wiki that he destroyed the moon by cutting it, but instead all it says is he cut the moon in half.

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    • Actually in these subjects it is difficult to get anywhere, because there are always two points of view very emphasized, those that undervalue and those that overestimate, and each not only has a rigid way of seeing things but is closed to anything And does not even show solid fundamentals for what it says.

      Well, I wanted more than anything to comment on two arguments shown here. The first in Naruto have not shown Luna or Planet level exploits because they have not destroyed a Moon or a Planet. That is a very superficial way of seeing the destructive power, because you do not have to destroy a mountain or an island to have that power, you only have to demonstrate a feat that demonstrates a level of energy necessary to destroy this or that thing. For example, destroying at subatomic level a couple of kilometers you would conveniently enter the Moon level and destroying a couple of tens of kilometers would exceed the planet level if you destroy it at the subatomic level so you do not need Naruto to destroy a Moon or a Planet to enter that category. And the way he claims that Naruto has not demonstrated a feat as such is quite questionable because I do not think that every feat of Naruto has been evaluated for that user to affirm that. The same can be said of hoping that for the Kinrin Tensei Baku of Toneri to be Moon Level would have had to destroy it, another superficial conclusion.

      The other is that if Kaguya does not easily end with Naruto and Sasuke can not be Solar System Level or similar is quite wrong. It should be clarified that in such a case that is true, Kaguya would be Solar System Level only with the Bocho Gudodama and that it would not be Solar System Level blinking or yawning for what it does not deny in any way that it is since it did not have that power Of attack until creating the Bocho Gudodama.

      Sincerely, I think that the God Tiers of Naruto must prowl the Planet Level by calculations that I have witnessed in different forums, that Kaguya pass that level is debatable and there is enough evidence to determine it, so it remains as something uncertain. At least as I perceive it and by the evidence that I have witnessed to date, but I do not assure that it is so until at least I can verify it myself, and deny or affirm something sharply without having something that substantiates it if it is absurd.

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    • @Rachin: i didn't say your stance was bs. I said the stance you are taking is that it is bs simply because you dont like the idea.

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    • A few things here. These terms, "planet level," "solar system level," etc. aren't even clearly defined. If they're not clearly defined they don't have any real meaning in a discussion.

      Kaguya being "solar system level" has no meaning. How she creates dimensions or rearranges dimensions is irrelevant. Creating pocket dimensions is a regular thing in the Narutoverse. Jiraiya's toads had several pocket dimensions. Does that make the toad "city level" or whatever the hell that means? Orochimaru created a pocket dimension; what level is he? What is Obito? Infinite Rent-a-Center Warehouse Level?! Kaguya's pocket dimensions are simply on a different scale than regular ninjas.

      Clearly, we have no idea of the laws of nature in her pocket dimensions. That heavy gravity dimension certainly didn't have normal physical laws. It's not like she's creating stars and planets in the real world of the Narutoverse. She's only doing these things in the time-spaces she has direct control of.

      Since pocket dimensions necessarily involve warping of space-time, stating this time-space is at least as big as the solar system is a completely meaningless statement. Unless you can prove that 1) it contains as much mass and energy as a solar system in the real world, 2)it required as much mass and energy to create as the ones in the real world, and 3) she could replicate this feat in the real world with known physical laws (not the bootleg sandbox physical laws she created in her time-space) then you have no case to call her "Solar System level" or whatever the hell that means.

      Feats are the only thing that can demonstrate what level someone is, because words are more often than not hyperbole or at least vague and freely interpretable. For example, Mifune is said that ninjutsu won't work on Mifune. This is hyperbole. We know this because we are introduced to the method he uses to stop ninjas from using ninjutsu. He blitzes them so they don't have time to perform hand signs. Clearly, this is only going to be effective against some ninjas. Taken literally no ninja anywhere could ever attack with ninjutsu if Mifune was in the room and refused to allow them to. Yet there is no doubt that Mifune would be incapable of stopping Itachi's hand speed, the 4th's mobility, or Raikage's raw physical speed.

      It is easy to see how Kaguya can destroy a planet with orbital bombardment in a short period of time. Madara already demonstrated this capability. I have no reason to doubt she is "planetary level" whatever the hell that means. I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe that she can affect a solar system much at all. It's not like she's going to pull the sun out of the sky or cause it to go nova in the Narutoverse real world.

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    • Come-on people Kaguya was clearly way stronger than some mere planet buster. Afterall even naruto should be much stronger than some mere moon busting level. Naruto gave chakra to entire alliance, And that Kyubi cloak was supposedly 3 times the person's own chakra(and that's lower bound I'm talking about here given that was from half kyubi). And merely Fraction of that chakra(I mean cloud ninjas being a fraction of the alliance) was supposedly capable of charging up that Moon canon which would have destroyed the moon. This clearly shows that Naruto was moon buster even before he got those creepy power-ups. And Kaguya was on whole other level than BM naruto..

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    • And how would they what it takes to blow up the moon when they have never done it before. They sure were confident enough to believe it, but who really knows. I can say that together at the very best, Naruto and Sasuke are moon busters, but they clearly have never demonstrated any feats to scale to that level alone. You talk about explosions and is quick to assume that because they are big, they are moon level. Clearly none of their explosions are make up a continent. Multi-city level at the best. Not to mention the inconsistencies with the explosions itself anyway. Saying you can do it and actually showing it is two different things. Again, where are the receipts?

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    • I mean, I see a lot of people dismissing evidence brought up. You all can't prove that it is hyperbole. The Otsutsuki were always powerful. Toneri, whom had NO EXPERIENCE with the Tenseigan AT ALL split the moon. Kaguya is immortal and considered a goddess. It wouldn't be beyond her power to destroy a planet, solar system or dimension. People just love to downplay stuff due to inconsistencies in the databook and context of the manga when it comes to other techniques. IMO, they are way more powerful that we are lead to believe.

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    • @Rachin123
      I don't think your comparison of DBZ feats with Naruto isn't even fair in the first place.In DBZ the author mostly gets away with anything by use of Dragonballs to restore it back whereas Naruto is somewhat darker. Things don't mend magically here they mend overtime, Any such destructive feat like the one you want would leave a really big mess for the author which would be really difficult to get away with.
      Have you honestly thought what would have happened:
      if kaguya actually used ETSB to get our heroes. Of course they needed the plot protection to survive the fight against such superior and adept foe.
      Or the time when Moon was falling and Killer B was about to fire the cannon. He's perfect jinchuriki and has really good idea about the destruction he could cause and that Guy actually hesitated to fire the cannon. It clearly shows the canon was more than sufficient to destroy the moon. So again our heroes needed the "plot protection" to survive for another day. And Last I checked Characters word had more weight than our personal opinion.
      Now I am not saying that we should add the buster stuff in the wiki but we can agree on the basic destructive power in this thread atleast.

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    • @Princeharris

      And people love to overrate them too so...

      @Namikaze

      Oh please stop. Kishi tried to push the series to be like DBZ and you know it. Aliens. Who can throw the largest scale attacks. Powerups out their ass. The word of characters can also be interpreted different ways, and some of them do not make sense in the first place so we don't have to believe it one way or the other. That's like saying that Madara's Susanoo's sword can reshape the world. Are we to take that seriously because it's the word of the character? Oh and to use that excuse of Killer B being a perfect jinchuriki and well aware of the abilities, amounts to nothing when has never even demonstrated such a feat himself. So, yea, try again. In any way, no we do not have to agree to anything.

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    • Were they even really aliens or extradimensional beings? Madara's Susanoo did have the power to reshape the world. It cut mountains... that counts as reshaping.

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    • lol haha, but yeah, they were aliens.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Madara's Susanoo did have the power to reshape the world. It cut mountains... that counts as reshaping.

      Oh haha. Clearly mountain cutting wasn't all he was talking about, otherwise he would say my swords can cut mountains. Madara pretty much thought he was a god, and given how powerful he was, I don't blame him.

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    • I think this will probably never have a definitive answer, unless we see it in a kaguya related story or if kishi confirms it. Right now, we can either go by character statements & databook info or only go by what we see. Kinda sucks.

      LegionZero wrote: Were they even really aliens or extradimensional beings? Madara's Susanoo did have the power to reshape the world. It cut mountains... that counts as reshaping.

      Databook said they came from another world. It's vague, if they're from the same dimension as the naruto world though.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze Oh please stop. Kishi tried to push the series to be like DBZ and you know it. Aliens. Who can throw the largest scale attacks. Powerups out their ass. The word of characters can also be interpreted different ways, and some of them do not make sense in the first place so we don't have to believe it one way or the other. That's like saying that Madara's Susanoo's sword can reshape the world. Are we to take that seriously because it's the word of the character? Oh and to use that excuse of Killer B being a perfect jinchuriki and well aware of the abilities, amounts to nothing when has never even demonstrated such a feat himself. So, yea, try again. In any way, no we do not have to agree to anything.

      Come on...
      Which part about Dragonballs you didn't get. The author has fricking Dragonball to reverse anything. He can bring back anything in the series protagonist or any random destruction his characters does can be restored.
      I already mentioned several scenarios which are irreversible in Narutoverse(protagonists dying in the hands of Kaguya, Moon Cannon actually destroying moon before heroes solve problem) and In Dragonball could have simply reversed because of it. So it's better to trust the word of Characters than to mire in speculation whether character was over exaggerating.
      Killer B's TBB could easily decimate cities also he has seen both kurama and Ten-tails forming the TBB and he will most definitely have idea about how much chakra would be required.

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    • @Namikaze

      You make zero sense. BY your logic, we have to take everything a character says literally. There can be no such thing as a hyperbole or metaphor. Get out of here. You are never going to convince me. I mean there is a reason Naruto characters never scale to DBZ. Their destructive capabilities, strength, speed and martial arts don't compare. And for some reason they are planet level+. This is too funny. I'm not even continue waste my time trying to convince you anymore. You can believe what you want.

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    • @Rachin123 Too be fair, martial arts in DBZ is not that great. They usually rely on having more power

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: People just love to downplay stuff due to inconsistencies in the databook and context of the manga when it comes to other techniques.

      From where i'm standing, people love to hype stuff to death, picking only the data that supports a high-end estimate and ignoring all the contractions, waving away all the uncertainties and unclear parts as if they're a mere nuisance.

      There are no cold hard facts that make Kaguya solar-system level. It's just an interpretation that she may be. Fill in the factors and assumptions slightly differently and she's not even planet-level. There isn't some rule that the higher estimate is always right.

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    • Well, if her "dimensions" had Suns and moons, why couldn't she make them? I mean, what technique can "destroy and recreate a dimension" but only "destroys and recreates a planet" in some random system with its own star? She's a goddess with goddly power and we don't even know how old she is. She could have been around for eons and created her dimensions millennia ago. We don't know. But trying to downplay feats because of a damn data book won't help. She's a goddess with a being that possesses near infinite chakra sealed inside her. It wouldn't be beyond her power to do such a thing. If the Sage of Six Paths could create a moon, Kaguya, someone much more powerful than him in terms of chakra potency and chakra reserves, should be able to do much much more than him. Not to mention the very nature of chakra defies physics all the time. It would be nothing for Kaguya to have just rewrite everything in a "pocket dimension" to become what equates to a full star system. I mean, it's her space so she can bend the laws the was she wants with her technique. In other anime, it's done all the time.

      Her being whatever level doesn't matter, but it is a possibility and people should treat it as a "possibility" and not something that's absolutely false. Let it remain a possibility instead of dismissing it completely.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: If the Sage of Six Paths could create a moon, Kaguya, someone much more powerful than him in terms of chakra potency and chakra reserves, should be able to do much much more than him.

      Yea about that. I think it's fairly clear he didn't actually make a moon from scratch. He simply lifted up dirt from the earth with a Chibaku tensei (and it's also hollow).

      Princeharris1993 wrote: I mean, it's her space so she can bend the laws the was she wants with her technique.

      She cant, as evidenced by the High Gravity planet.

      Princeharris1993 wrote: It would be nothing for Kaguya to have just rewrite everything in a "pocket dimension" to become what equates to a full star system.

      I don't think it would be "nothing" for her, in any sense of that word.

      Princeharris1993 wrote: Her being whatever level doesn't matter, but it is a possibility and people should treat it as a "possibility" and not something that's absolutely false. Let it remain a possibility instead of dismissing it completely.

      It's funny because you seem to be advocating she's most definitely star system.

      There are a lot of unknowns, but judging from the knowns her power isn't solar system level. If it's easy to make a solar system in your own space-time, then she's not solar system level. The only reason people think that is because of a vague reference to space-time and some heavy extrapolation, whereas everything else suggests she's planet-revel or thereabout.

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    • Honestly I think this is up for interpretation. Other wikis generally credit the ETSO with Planet Level DC because they prefer to go with lowball / consistency. However if you see the dimension thing as a the whole thing as a Small Star (basically a Red Dwarf to Yellow Dwarf) + a Earth-Like Planet, I can see you arguing Star to Start+. I'm really open headed when it comes to Kaguya because, let's be honest, that fight was so vague that you could literally interpret her to be fodder Moon+ to Planet level.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze You make zero sense. BY your logic, we have to take everything a character says literally. There can be no such thing as a hyperbole or metaphor. Get out of here. You are never going to convince me. I mean there is a reason Naruto characters never scale to DBZ. Their destructive capabilities, strength, speed and martial arts don't compare. And for some reason they are planet level+. This is too funny. I'm not even continue waste my time trying to convince you anymore. You can believe what you want.

      Well by your logic you can take anything you feel like isn't it?Afterall your thoughts carry more weight than the characters actually using the jutsu and claiming something especially when their is no other way to confirm the feat? So basically you are just claiming that the supposed character doesn't know the destruction level of his or her jutsu. And your so called interpretation carries more word?

      @Rachin123 In all my writings I have not once tried to compare naruto characters with DBZ. You are the one who is doing that and trying to get away from the point I actually stated. I just pointed out the author of DBZ can get away with stuff like that because he can always restore the destroyed thing with Dragonballs. Naruto's author has no such plot device and hence would have much difficult time in restoring the destroyed thing.
      Besides it's author fault that he didn't provide the necessary details or else you guys would not have gotten away with this twisting the dimension stuff into planets and solar system.

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    • @Namikaze

      And again you make no sense. I never said my thoughts carry more weight than the character, but that things they say can be interpreted in different ways, it doesn't always have to be literal and such.

      Then you go to say that just because DBZ has dragon balls that we should discredit their abilities like destroying islands, cities and the moon, etc. because they can bring them back by wishing for it. Go tell a DBZ fan and so how fast you get dealt with.

      And exactly. It is the author's fault for not providing the necessary details so we wouldn't doubt these claims or statements. And it because of him that deluded fans believe Naruto characters to be light speed and solar system level. I mean it's both sad and laughable.

      But, whatever helps you sleep at night ;)

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    • Well I am glad to know that we are on same page.
      And I am fairly certain that Naruto characters are no match for DBZ(other than kaguya and only because of immortality and ETSB). So no delusion on my part.
      Besides I am not worried about how fast I would be dealt with by DBZ fans when I clearly know the scope of the two anime is different. DBZ is currently multiversal level by now and Naruto's story is still on earth(exclude kaguya's story), It would be hilarious if someone tries to even compare them..

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    • @Thekillman

      Kaguyas parallel time-space's can be confirmed to be atleast the size of a Solar System for these reasons,

      Kaguya was going to destroy and recreate one of her time-spaces.

      Kaguyas ETSB is Solar System level by cold hard facts. You're also ignoring the numerous Planet level statements that i have posted.

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    • the youtuber seththeprogramer actually uses math to prove his statements and have proven on several videos that kaguya is atleast a solar system buster

      toneri was able to slice the moon in half causually with a small attack. the japanese language is a literal language so when kaguya says this is my time space she is speaking literally not figuratiely, when it is said that her expansive truth seeking ball is going to erase the entire space time they were in its talking literally. when they say time space they are not refering to some tiny planet they are talking about an honest to god complete 100% reproduction of space and time. the word dimension implies something on an entire geometric rate. dimension is defined as a measureable extent of some kind, such as length, breath, depth or height so when she says this is my space time dimension this would mean that its the same size as the space and time that naruto and company were transported from. since space and time are put into the same sentence as dimension this is implying that her dimension is as large as normal space and time. as for kamui its most likely just as large as the regular space time that naruto and all of them are from its simply devoid of any form aside from the squares that are floating inside it.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: And I am fairly certain that Naruto characters are no match for DBZ

      Well, it's not surprising. Power is fairly easy to get in DBZ, whereas in Naruto it requires both hard work AND talent to be a considerable power, and also genetics just to make it near the top. Yet nothing beats the sheer power of eating a fruit. No matter how hard a ninja works they'll never naturally be Fruit-eater level.

      On the other hand in DBZ, there's no apparent upper limit on power that one can achieve. it just keeps on going. So, if the Naruto characters played by DBZ rules, i don't see why someone like Madara couldn't be a universe buster.

      I personally don't see the point of comparing dissimilar universes.

      Actionmanrandell wrote: the youtuber seththeprogramer actually uses math to prove his statements and have proven on several videos that kaguya is atleast a solar system buster

      It's funny since she never uses this power to defeat Naruto and Sasuke. Seems to me there's a clear mismatch between what people want her to be, and what she actually is.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: the youtuber seththeprogramer actually uses math to prove his statements and have proven on several videos that kaguya is atleast a solar system buster

      Annnd there goes your statement's credibility

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote: the youtuber seththeprogramer actually uses math to prove his statements and have proven on several videos that kaguya is atleast a solar system buster

      Annnd there goes your statement's credibility

      Ikr, seth's knowledge of naruto is so clearly lacking. He uses too many assumptions and head-canons to try to make sense of things. Don't take his statements seriously because more often than not, he's clearly wrong.

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    • Guys we should not take everything character says seriously.Madara said his PS can destroy everything in entire universe.There is a thing called hyperbole.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: the japanese language is a literal language so when kaguya says this is my time space she is speaking literally not figuratiely,

      This is quite a remarkable assertion that I've never heard anywhere... ever. Can you explain how you came by such a conclusion?

      I tend to doubt it. I'm not even sure what you really mean by this, since Japanese is perfectly capable of expressing all types of figurative language I've ever encountered, such as metaphor, personification, simile, hyperbole, idiom, puns, etc.

      Case in point, 起死回生, “wake from death and return to life,” doesn't mean someone had an actual near death experience. It means “to turn a bad or desperate situation into a success.”

      And 我田引水, “pulling water to my own rice paddy,” doesn't mean you're a rice farmer irrigating your crops. It means “doing or saying things for one’s own benefit.”

      At this point, I'm highly sceptical of your claim. However, I'm open to new information. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Guys we should not take everything character says seriously.Madara said his PS can destroy everything in entire universe.There is a thing called hyperbole.

      It actually says "destroy all things in nature", which is inline with a planet level Ten Tails via statements, planet level Juubi-Obito via statments, planet level Toneri via statements, and planet level Kinshiki via statements.

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    • actually, kinshiki is least probable of being planet lvl. even by statements, since the book that said that wasn't written by kishi, and it said 'with the power to destroy worlds', which is probably a line referring to Shakespeare's writing, where he says something like 'I am become death, destroyer of worlds'

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    • thing is by statments Obito is planet lvl via sword of nunoboku, so I doubt that kinshiki would be any lower that the weakest juubi jinjuricki

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    • Holy halibut.

      Okay, @DC52, links to illegal manga scanlations are not allowed here. Stop it. I really don't feel like combing all your walls of text and removing every link, so just listen to this warning.

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    • CyberianGinseng wrote: This is quite a remarkable assertion that I've never heard anywhere... ever. Can you explain how you came by such a conclusion?

      Yea i support your statement. I've also never seen a purely 100% literal language. sure there are variations in how literal a language can be and depending on how it's constructed, it can be used to express a variation of thoughts, but a language without hyperbole, without idioms or figure of speech? That doesn't exist.

      DC52 wrote: It actually says "destroy all things in nature", which is inline with a planet level Ten Tails via statements, planet level Juubi-Obito via statments, planet level Toneri via statements, and planet level Kinshiki via statements.

      So a Perfect Susanoo can destroy planets now? Wow that escalated quickly.

      I think it simply refers to the fact that since he can slice mountains, there isn't really any natural construct (rivers, forests, etc) that he can't reshape in some way. This is similar to the Biju, who can use their nuclear power to reshape the surface of the planet.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: actually, kinshiki is least probable of being planet lvl. even by statements, since the book that said that wasn't written by kishi, and it said 'with the power to destroy worlds', which is probably a line referring to Shakespeare's writing, where he says something like 'I am become death, destroyer of worlds'

      That line was said by Oppenheimer at a nuclear test. Which also refers to the glassing of the planet and destroying all life on it, what we nowadays refer to as M.A.D.

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    • thanks bro... (lucky me, I didn't say all that with a "for sure" in the end hehe)

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    • Just saying,madara said that his PS can destroy everything in the universe,but nobody took that seriously...

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Just saying,madara said that his PS can destroy everything in the universe,but nobody took that seriously...

      But he didn't say that he could destroy everything in the universe. He said he could destroy everything in nature. Nature can refer to a lot of things. From context (He just destroyed a mountain) it's clear that he's talking about reshaping the surface of the planet.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Kakashisologod1 wrote: Just saying,madara said that his PS can destroy everything in the universe,but nobody took that seriously...

      But he didn't say that he could destroy everything in the universe. He said he could destroy everything in nature. Nature can refer to a lot of things. From context (He just destroyed a mountain) it's clear that he's talking about reshaping the surface of the planet.

      Oh,ok.

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    • @Thekillman

      "It's funny since she never uses this power to defeat Naruto and Sasuke. Seems to me there's a clear mismatch between what people want her to be, and what she actually is."

      Kaguya was not trying to kill Naruto and Sasuke until she started the ETSB.. Plus Kaguya is only Solar System level with the ETSB and likely reality warping. Otherwise Kaguya is Planet level+.

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    • Kaguya is only planet level via ETSB at best, and that's based on no feats, just speculation. She has no other techniques that even scale to moon level.

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    • "Kaguya is only planet level via ETSB at best" - yet you don't actually have evidence that it was only planet level at best. It's best is we all just leave it to Kishi and his work.

      With her space-time technique, she IS a reality warper, as she can rewrite ANY aspect of a given space. That alone makes her much greater than earth or solar system level.

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    • And yet you have no solid proof that Kaguya is solar system level. She doesn't even rewrite any time-space, she teleports you to a different dimension. By that logic all teleportors are reality warpers. I mean if you want you can take it as their reality has been changed. One minute they are on Earth, the next in 6 other dimensions. That is about as much reality warping you get. But, that's there reality that changed, not actual reality.

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    • Those dimensions themselfs might be planets,so when she says she is going to destroy those dimensions implies that she IS planet buster.Far above solar system lvl is pure nonsense.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: And yet you have no solid proof that Kaguya is solar system level. She doesn't even rewrite any time-space, she teleports you to a different dimension. By that logic all teleportors are reality warpers. I mean if you want you can take it as their reality has been changed. One minute they are on Earth, the next in 6 other dimensions. That is about as much reality warping you get. But, that's there reality that changed, not actual reality.

      As iv'e explained above, Kaguyas ETSB was going to destroy and recreate a time-space that we know to be at least the size of a Solar System. Kaguya is Planet level+ in her other regards.

      Kakashisologod1 wrote: Those dimensions themselfs might be planets,so when she says she is going to destroy those dimensions implies that she IS planet buster.Far above solar system lvl is pure nonsense.

      As iv'e explained multiple times above, those dimensions were shown to be atleast the size of a Solar System.

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    • No tf she is not planet in other regards. She has never displayed anything remotely close to moon level. Her saying that it was going to be the start of a new time-space, could as easily mean, a time of a new era. I mean what would be the point of wiping a whole solar system for? Clearly the statement was metaphorically speaking. As much as I struggle believe that she could destroy a planet, that would the best she can do in my opinion. Until she has receipts and actually shown to do it, I am going interpret the statement as such. Got a problem, don't care.

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    • No, a new time-space could not mean "a time of a new era". Time-space in physics is a 4-Dimensional structure of any size. In Naruto the Kamui dimension, and Limbo are described as parallel time-spaces. As iv'e explained before Obito said that each of Kaguya's realms are time-spaces like the Kamui dimension.

      The Ten Tails quite literally is the planet, and has numerous moon to planet level feats/statements as iv'e explained before.

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    • All the ETSB is a gigantic version of Truth Seeking Balls. How could it literally create a new time-space? Also, this is fiction. They don't always follow physics in the first place. I mean they can breath in space, but not in water. The gravity on the moon seems to not differ from Earth's gravity. I mean are we to take what it says about Obito's sword literally when he has no feats to prove it being even be moon level. Also, again we have no proof she created those dimensions. Anyone can name something that no one else's owns. We do it all the time.

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    • "An expansive kekkei moura truthseeker orb that contains each and every nature. Wind, Earth, Lightning, Water, Shadow, and Light. It's the start of a new time-space. And you all will become sacrifices to it."

      A parallel time-space like the Kamui dimension, Kaguya's time-space has been shown to be at least the size of a solar system. Also, as i explained before, Kaguya's time-spaces were clearly demonstrated as being parallel.

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    • Again, we don't know for a fact that she created those dimensions. They can be parallel all they want. You ever heard of alternate worlds or dimensions? I mean for what reason would she feel the need to make them. She already was the basically the strongest being. I mean, you mean to tell me that she used the ETSB 6 times, destroying 6 solar systems, just to create 6 new ones. I mean this just sounds ridiculous. The planet is one thing. The solar system is a whole different thing. And clearly like I said, what she said, could easily be taking as it is the start of a new era. And like I said, why destroy the whole solar system? All she was worried about was Earth? This would mean that Kinshiki and Momoshiki were around solar system level too and clearly their feats contradict that, so clearly Kaguya is not solar system level, even with the ETSB. Read in between the lines. When has actually feats, which she had none that extend to that, just speculations, then we can talk.

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    • Momoshiki has two Solar System level feats in the Boruto Movie novel. Time-space is a scientific concept with a definition which is used in Naruto.. It's not some vague statement like you think it is.

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    • What solar system feats did momoshiki have?

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      CyberianGinseng wrote: This is quite a remarkable assertion that I've never heard anywhere... ever. Can you explain how you came by such a conclusion?

      Yea i support your statement. I've also never seen a purely 100% literal language. sure there are variations in how literal a language can be and depending on how it's constructed, it can be used to express a variation of thoughts, but a language without hyperbole, without idioms or figure of speech? That doesn't exist.

      Exactly. This seems to be some vague notion of Japanese language that the originator pulled whole cloth from his behind. Not even the author of Loglan, an artificial language designed to be more logical (whatever that means) than natural languages, makes this claim. It's like people form these vague notions of something from incomplete information, then make incredible leaps of logic, only to form nonsensical conclusions based on it.

      DC52 wrote: @Thekillman

      Kaguyas parallel time-space's can be confirmed to be atleast the size of a Solar System for these reasons,

      Kaguya was going to destroy and recreate one of her time-spaces.

      Kaguyas ETSB is Solar System level by cold hard facts. You're also ignoring the numerous Planet level statements that i have posted.

      Some of this is demonstrably false.

      • You cannot determine how far the laws of physics diverge in her dimensions from the real Narutoverse. The gravity dimension indicates a significant divergence.
      • You cannot determine the mass or luminosity of this star or planetary body inside her dimensions.
      • Without physical laws and an estimate of the mass and brightness of the star, you cannot determine its distance from the "planet."
      • without knowing the distance, you cannot determine the size of the "solar systems" in her dimensions.
      • without this determination, you can't compare her dimensions to the real Narutoverse.
      • without this knowledge, you can't prove how much mass and space-time she's actually manipulating.
      • Without all of the above stating Kaguya is "Solar System Level" becomes meaningless.

      It cannot be denied that Kaguya is a planet buster. She could quite easily destroy a planet with nothing more than prolonged planetary bombardment, using just the level of power Edo Madara displayed, but stretched out over a short period of time. Kaguya was on an entirely different scale than Edo Madara, so we know she is capable of this. However, anything beyond planet buster is simple speculation on your part.

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    • What solar system feats? We know there are different time-spaces, but what we don't know is if Kaguya can actually destroy a solar system and create a new one. Ad yes, these statements are very farfetch'd. Like I said, if you want believe she actually created those 6 dimensions, not to be confused with planets, answer me when did she have time to do this and why she did it. All because she said this was her time-space when teleporting Team 7 and Obito to the dimensions and because she said that with her ESTB, it was going to be start of a new time-space, that she instantly became solar system plus, without sufficient proof. When the fact is nobody in Naruto should moon level feats (excluding Toneri who really only create a moon length size sword only, never destroyed it). And we are just suppose to believe that it went from at best moon level (being generous) to solar system, completely skipping planet level (which would make more sense for her considering the whole solar system wasn't heard target). I'm just going to stop this back and forth. Clearly you are dead set on hyping her up, instead of taking everything they say literally.

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    • This sun could be incredibly small and yet close to the so called planet.So if she would to destroy dimension she would destroy a planet.

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    • that is an assumption, unlike the fact that there is a star in that dimension stop low-balling Kaguya

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    • ^How about you stop hyping Kaguya.

      This is exactly why they say Naruto fans are the worst because of ridiculous stuff like this, giving the rest of us a bad name. Smh.

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    • well star level is quite accurate considering characters like Kinshiki have planetary statements and Kaguya is far stronger than him

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: well star level is quite accurate considering characters like Kinshiki have planetary statements and Kaguya is far stronger than him

      Coughs kinshiki can not destroy planets coughs.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: that is an assumption, unlike the fact that there is a star in that dimension stop low-balling Kaguya

      No. Actually, it's an unknown. And since nobody knows then absolutely nobody can make remarkable claims... you know... like the ones people are making about Kaguya being able to destroy solar systems.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: ^How about you stop hyping Kaguya.

      This is exactly why they say Naruto fans are the worst because of ridiculous stuff like this, giving the rest of us a bad name. Smh.

      I'd say DBZ fanboys are the worse. Have you seen the stuff they been saying? But, back on topic, Kaguya is only at best a planet level, which she only is when she gathers the chakra of everybody on the planet.

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    • @UltimaDude

      I'm sorry I have disagree. There are the occasional DBZ fans that are bad, but they never overstep their boundaries when it comes to power because it is well known how powerful the characters are. There is a reason they came up with the term, "Narutards". At least when we say DBZ characters are planet level, we see feats, which we then we can actually power scale others too. In Naruto, no feats, just statements that contradict what we've seen, but sure lets believe or take their words literally. But, yes, I can agree to Kaguya being planet level at best.

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    • actually, there is a term called 'dragon ball suckers', for ur information.

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    • I actually know that, but show me a bunch of examples of these DBZ fans that make the characters out to be stronger than they really are, because I can find plenty of information of Naruto fans believing Naruto characters stand a chance against DBZ characters and other characters they clearly are no match against.

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    • like how goku or/and vegeta could take on complete marvel or dc universe and come out alive single handedly? is that enough for you as an example..

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    • lol every single trunks, cell, and buu fan... how bout that?...... ps. I am a dragon ball sucker....

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    • @Namikaze

      They say the same thing about Naruto and Sasuke, amongst other characters. Also, DBZ characters stand a waaaaaayyyy better chance against the Marvel and DC Uinverse than Naruto characters do.

      @Lorenzo

      You can't say every Trunks, Cell and Buu fan. And not nearly every fan of those characters either.

      But, we are going off topic. Kaguya has no feats. Has no reason to destroy an entire solar system. Kaguya at best is planet level, and that's with no feats.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze

      They say the same thing about Naruto and Sasuke, amongst other characters. Also, DBZ characters stand a waaaaaayyyy better chance against the Marvel and DC Uinverse than Naruto characters do.

      So you really believe that goku and vegeta can take on complete marvel and dc? Never knew I would find one here.
      Besides I never heard naruto fan say stuff like that.But whatever you say so.

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    • @Namikaze

      I never said that. What I said is they would stand a better chance than any Naruto character. Of course I don't think that Goku or Vegeta can take on the Marvel or DC Universe and win. And of course you never heard that. Out of all the ridiculous fights Naruto characters get matched against you never heard of that. Shoot I heard Naruto can beat Superman, which couldn't be more false. Goku on the other hand, especially can actually beat a few Superman incarnations. Naruto only stands a chance against the animated ones. But, whatever. Be in denial.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @UltimaDude

      I'm sorry I have disagree. There are the occasional DBZ fans that are bad, but they never overstep their boundaries when it comes to power because it is well known how powerful the characters are. There is a reason they came up with the term, "Narutards". At least when we say DBZ characters are planet level, we see feats, which we then we can actually power scale others too. In Naruto, no feats, just statements that contradict what we've seen, but sure lets believe or take their words literally. But, yes, I can agree to Kaguya being planet level at best.

      Bruh, have you seen the YouTube comments? There are DBZ fanboys who think that a few DBZ characters can solo Marvel and DC. But to each their own, I guess. Though, we can all agree that every fanboy is a disgrace to their respective franchise.

      Back on topic, I'm just SMH to the people who think that Kaguya can destroy a universe, much less a solar system. I mean seriously, nothing ever indicated that Kaguya is that powerful. This is why I absolutely abhor vague statements, people draw ridiculous conclusions from them

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze Out of all the ridiculous fights Naruto characters get matched against you never heard of that. Shoot I heard Naruto can beat Superman, which couldn't be more false. Goku on the other hand, especially can actually beat a few Superman incarnations. Naruto only stands a chance against the animated ones. But, whatever. Be in denial.

      Come on where did you hear naruto actually beating superman? Never heard of it And why would I be in denial when I know they can't beat DC universe alone.
      I just told you how biased the DBZ fans are. Weren't you the one who wanted example where DBZ fans would overhype their characters? Just gave that and I got over it. And I am definitely not in DENIAL..
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    • @Namikaze

      And I told you how biased Narutards are. I just find it hilarious that you never heard that Naruto can take on Superman anywhere, or that Naruto characters can beat the entirety of the Marvel and DC Universe, but just so happens to here when DBZ fans make up the worst fights. Either you are in denial or you seriously are clueless to it, which is hard to swallow, considering how plastered it is. I never heard that Goku or Vegeta can singlehandedly beat the Marvel and DC Universe. If it exists, it's no common. And actually I wanted way more than one example of DB suckers hyping there characters more Narutards do. But, this is not the place for this. If you wish to continue, go to my talkpage.

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    • @namikaze Just search naruto vs superman and you'll see all the comic vine threads. It not uncommon.

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    • Naruto blitzes superman boyzzz.Superman gets thrashed in the dirt :P

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Naruto blitzes superman boyzzz.Superman gets thrashed in the dirt :P

      yah Especially if he uses Sexy jutsu. I heard superman has constitution of not hurting womens. ;-)

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    • Aside from kaguya's giant gudodama, how strong would a bijuudama from her be? Country level or something?

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    • or Naruto be like 1000 years of death (aka most powerful known Naruto jutsu in the whole narutoverse)

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Aside from kaguya's giant gudodama, how strong would a bijuudama from her be? Country level or something?

      It would be a half a nine tails stronger than what the ten tails used since the ten tails only had 8.5 bijuu in the war arc. So around small country level.

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    • Even Toneri is planet level as his databook entry states

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    • @Lorenzo VonMT you really don't think a planet's population worth of chakra is equal to just a half of the nine tails, do you?

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    • also they were amped by nine tails chakra boosting them by at least 3x

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Even Toneri is planet level as his databook entry states

      Databook isnt 100% true,it has errors.

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    • That is true but things like this are somewhat on point considering the statments prior to that one about toneri were all accurate

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: @Lorenzo VonMT you really don't think a planet's population worth of chakra is equal to just a half of the nine tails, do you?

      What are you talking about?

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    • Er, i was asking how strong a bijuudama from kaguya would be. You said "It would be a half a nine tails stronger". I was trying to say, everyone's chakra that got absorbed by kaguya, can't be equal to just half of the nine tails in terms of power.

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    • Who really knows because some of that chakra included people with high levels of chakra themselves, like Tsunade, the Third Raikage, Gaara, and Orochimaru. I wouldn't go as far as to say the Nine-Tails chakra is bigger than the whole world's chakra. That's ridiculous.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Er, i was asking how strong a bijuudama from kaguya would be. You said "It would be a half a nine tails stronger". I was trying to say, everyone's chakra that got absorbed by kaguya, can't be equal to just half of the nine tails in terms of power.

      I wasn't considering the chakra she absorbed from the people in the infinite tsukuyomi of course.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Who really knows because some of that chakra included people with high levels of chakra themselves, like Tsunade, the Third Raikage, Gaara, and Orochimaru. I wouldn't go as far as to say the Nine-Tails chakra is bigger than the whole world's chakra. That's ridiculous.

      Half nine-tails covered almost complete world.. Perhaps complete nine-tails could do something like that.

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    • Half nine-tails covered almost complete world.. Perhaps complete nine-tails could do something like that.

      Based on what?

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Half nine-tails covered almost complete world.. Perhaps complete nine-tails could do something like that.

      Based on what?

      Based on the fact that he actually shared the chakra with the alliance?

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    • That's not the entire world though. There were still people at their villages and around the world. There is also the fact that they have been fighting already. Just because he shared some chakra with about a few hundred shinobi doesn't mean he has more chakra than the entire shinobi world, especially given the circumstance.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: That's not the entire world though. There were still people at their villages and around the world. There is also the fact that they have been fighting already. Just because he shared some chakra with about a few hundred shinobi doesn't mean he has more chakra than the entire shinobi world, especially given the circumstance.

      the world's people which you are talking about doesn't even has well developed chakra network. Or in other words you could say they are negligible. They just have chakra only for 'living'.Most of the fighting force was on the field, Their were no so called holding backs..
      On top of that he did give a cloak to sakura too if you are forgetting. So full Nine-tails may have chakra equivalent to the full alliance at the very least.
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    • Most of the alliance died too. Just saying.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Most of the alliance died too. Just saying.

      you mean the god tree sucking their chakra dry? Didn't that get reversed after IT?

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    • It's debatable whether or not, non-shinobi even have chakra in the first place. Still, Rachin123 has a point. There's still the missing nin, shinobi who might've stayed behind to guard their respective village, ninja villages who didn't participate in the war(E.g. the hidden rain village), animal summonings, and possibly more.

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    • If you put it that I think you have got thee point...

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    • @Namikazenaruto9 With shinobi that were under IT? Yeah. With shinobi who got their chakra absorbed before IT? They're as dead as Neji.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Based on the fact that he actually shared the chakra with the alliance?

      You know what? I'm going to be extremely generous and say that the alliance consisted of 1 million people (that's a very extreme estimate). Going by the real world, there are 7 billion on Earth. So that would mean that Kurama gave 1 mill people out of 7 bill chakra. That's less than .1% (0.01428571428%, to be exact) of the world's population. Therefore, complete Kurama's chakra being able to be shared with the entire world is complete BS

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    • It was stated that 80,000 shinobi and samurai make up the allied shinobi force. More than 2/3 died in the in the war based on the numbers we've seen. About 3,000 to 5,000 marched on the battlefield against the Ten-Tails, and I'm being generous. While impressive the Nine-Tails can spare so much chakra, that doesn't mean his chakra is more than the collective chakra of the shinobi, samurai or ninja monks, amongst others. Sorry I am just not believing it.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: You know what? I'm going to be extremely generous and say that the alliance consisted with 1 million people (that's a very extreme estimate). Going by the real world, there are 7 billion on Earth. So that would mean that Kurama gave 1 mill people out of 7 bill chakra. That's less than .1% (0.01428571428%, to be exact) of the world's population. Therefore, complete Kurama's chakra being able to be shared with the entire world is complete BS

      You don't need to be generous.
      The 7 billion you are talking about(which might not be the number for naruto world by the way) Are useless. their chakra levels are pitiable and they don't even have developed chakra networks to be shinobi. Infact even the individual village is capable of wiping out that population.
      Also I did agree its not equal to the world. At best more than the alliance.
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    • But, what was the point of bringing up Kurama for? Was it to compare it Kaguya or something?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: But, what was the point of bringing up Kurama for? Was it to compare it Kaguya or something?

      comparing Kurama's TBB with kaguya's I guess?

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: comparing Kurama's TBB with kaguya's I guess?

      So, were you implying that Kurama's TBB can do considerable damage to the planet?

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote: comparing Kurama's TBB with kaguya's I guess?

      So, were you implying that Kurama's TBB can do considerable damage to the planet?

      On the big island yes,but not on planet lol.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote: comparing Kurama's TBB with kaguya's I guess?

      So, were you implying that Kurama's TBB can do considerable damage to the planet?

      well Kurama's chakra even in SM pales in comparison to her's right? So kaguya's TBB should destroy at least a country right?
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    • Kaguya doesn't have the TBB though so...

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Kaguya doesn't have the TBB though so...

      Not even as TT?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Kaguya doesn't have the TBB though so...

      She should be able to use it though

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    • That is all a matter of speculation. No proof. And given everything, it is highly doubtful, or else she would have used it.

      But onto the topic at hand. Kaguya is planet level via ETSB, based on logical reasoning and no feats. Kaguya is only planet level+ based on pure speculation, illogical reasoning, different interpretation of statements and no feats. So can we please shut this down now.

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    • Kaguya doesn't have bijuudama? She can transform into the ten tails, can't she?

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    • dude, why u getting so pissed? if u don't like the thread, then don't read it anymore. u don't have close it. just cuz people don't agree to ur opinion, doesn't mean u can just go around shutting them down.

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    • @Lorenzo

      How about you stop blowing things out of proportion. I am not mad. I said we should shut this down because there is no solid proof, other than vague statements and no feats to say Kaguya is more than planet level. It's not about people disagreeing with me, it's about having no actual receipts to prove she is. It's not even a fact that she is planet level because we've never seen any feats, but that's if we were to assume that the ETSB would do such, which based on her character, why would she need to be anything more than planet level? It just doesn't make any sense. And just FYI, just because I have the power to shut down this thread, doesn't mean I will based on my personal view. If that was the case, this would have been shut down. So how about you stop where you are. Thank you very much.

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    • @Lorenzo it's because they keep hyping Kaguya even though we have no proof that Kaguya is above planet-level.

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    • and? people hype a lot, but what bout people who are always underestimating a characters just cuz they don't like them? its basically the same thing. I could say right here: why don't u guys just close this? nobody seems to get the lvl that _blank_ is in. its useless." get it?

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    • And you could @Lorenzo. Nobody is stopping you. It's not like it's against the rules. But, you saying I'm pissed is beyond ridiculous. I more shocked to the hype she is receiving with no receipts. And to be quite clear, my position is neutral. I don't like or dislike her.

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    • A FANDOM user
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