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  • why didn't sasuke's inferno style: honuikasuchi.. what ever infinitely burn Naruto to death? as that's what the fire of the amaterasu does?

    Sasuke had so much of the upper hand in that fight. Sasuke could've/would've killed Naruto if it weren't for plot no jutsu.

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    • How come Obito didn't burst into flames when Sasuke used amaterasu on him?

      Also, don't forget, Sasuke had to suck up chakra from all 9 Bijuu just to get on Naruto's level, and still lost. And Naruto wasn't even fighting with killer intent. On the other hand, Sasuke was. Honestly, in that last fight Sasuke wasn't on Naruto's level. Especially considering he shared his chakra with literally every shinobi in the world, did the most work in fighting Kaguya, fought Madara, fought Juubito, cut the Shinju tree in half, and don't forget. He did this restless over the course of 3 days. Naruto is just a beast.

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    • I think they messed up the story when they made both Naruto and Sasuke too op. They got too many "plot armor" power ups way too quick. Naruto went from barely being able to touch Kakashi to being the most powerful shinobi in the world in a matter of days, same with Sasuke, he could barely defeat a weakened Orochimaru and in a couple of days he can face Madara? Sasuke will never be able to touch Naruto because of "plot", and it goes both ways, they are untouchable. I still love Naruto though (The world and lore not the character)

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    • Because the amaterasu flames had first to get through the v1 cloak, and Naruto simply threw it away.

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    • not that scene. I'm talking about when he turned the amaterasu into an all directions spear.

      on the other hand, sasuke could have also used swap places technique on naruto's tailed beast bomb rasenshuriken and the other one, idk what to call it. and blitzed Naruto UP CLOSE with his indras arrow.

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    • It doesn’t work like that...ameno it’s mid range. It has limited teleportation range, as stated by Madara himself. So no, sasuke couldn’t have swapped his place with Naruto, since Naruto was a long distance away.

      And if we go by that logic, we can say: Why didn’t Naruto use 1000 SPSM shadow clones, why didn’t Naruto use boild release or any other bijuu ability, why didn’t Naruto use continously bijuu bombs or supercharged bijuu bombs, why didn’t Naruto use frog kata etc.

      Trust me, Naruto* wasn’t the one protected by plot in that battle.

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    • was?**

      and XDDDDD I didn't think about any of that omg.

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    • Vladosaurus
      Vladosaurus removed this reply because:
      Double post
      15:40, August 31, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Enton: Honoikazuchi is not canon. It happened only in the anime for hype purpouses. It doesn't exist and never happened.

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    • True, but it's no different from Kagutsuchi which is canon.

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    • @Plot no jutsu, but it's the anime I'm speaking about.

      And as much as Vladosaurus altered my perspective on this battle. I'm still envisioning sasuke having just a slight edge (just by a little bit) in this fight. A question that continuously haunts me. What defence or attack does Naruto have that he can use to defend himself against a super creative and destructive attack from sasuke with amaterasu? It's general knowledge that Naruto has more chakra and stamina and probably more destructive power than sasuke (PROBABLY). But what could Naruto do VS a jutsu that he can't absorb or run away from, and could only hope to attack head on from Sasuke?

      my example:

      imagine a category 5 hurricane, in amaterasu form, being executed like the almighty push, from the palm of sasuke's complete body susanoo hand

      absolute crisis for Naruto, and the surrounding area around him and small villages nearby. Naruto has no possible defence for this

      This jutsu we can call.. Inferno style: Flame control armageddon!

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: imagine a category 5 hurricane, in amaterasu form, being executed like the almighty push, from the palm of sasuke's complete body susanoo hand

      absolute crisis for Naruto, and the surrounding area around him and small villages nearby. Naruto has no possible defemce for this

      This jutsu we can call.. Inferno style: Flame control armageddon!

      Naruto contains it like he did Momshiki's Tailed Beast Bomb, with his chakra cloak rendering Amaterasu useless.

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    • Naruto burns to death in the process of doing that

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: Naruto burns to death in the process of doing that

      He literally doesn't because Version 1 Cloak can hold off Amaterasu so he it's not getting through his full cloak.

      Amaterasu doesn't even burn through regular armour fast, like when Madara was hit with Amaterasu and just took his armour off, or when some Samurai got hit with Amaterasu and just got pulled out of their armour

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    • The range and scope and execution of the attack I just described penetrates all of that tbh.

      Madara and the samurai were hit with a basic usage of the amaterasu. This usage of the amaterasu is God tier

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    • And Momshiki's Tailed Beast Bomb is far more powerful than literally anything than Sasuke could do on his own. Naruto contained it, and Sasuke even noted he could just blow it away if he didn't have to worry about the nearby villagers.

      Sasuke has nowehere near the power that Momshiki does, especially regarding Ninjutsu

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    • Senjutsu Sage
      Senjutsu Sage removed this reply because:
      not finished
      13:51, September 9, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Momoshiki has no ninjutsu of his own. he's a chakra/jutsu thief. Taijutsu is his only original jutsu. Take away chakra pills, take away kinshiki and momoshiki is nothing. (I won't say rinnegan because you'll counter it and say the same about sasuke)

      And it seems to me that you are thinking of the amaterasu as regular fire. It does not disappear, till it disintegrates all it touches. And to make matters worse the way it is being executed. Naruto stands no chance.

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    • Are we actually arguing amaterasu vs God tier characters...? C’mon. It doesn’t work like that. Sasuke can spam amaterasu as much as he wants and in whatever form he want, he can’t beat someone like Naruto with it. If V1 cloak protected Naruto from regular amaterasu, then Six Paths chakra cloak Naruto easily deals with any version of amaterasu. Not to mention that Naruto can both fly and sense amaterasu out, so even the chances of him getting hit in the first place are slim to none.

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: Momoshiki has no ninjutsu of his own. he's a chakra/jutsu thief. Taijutsu is his only original jutsu. Take away chakra pills, take away kinshiki and momoshiki is nothing. (I won't say rinnegan because you'll counter it and say the same about sasuke)

      And it seems to me that you are thinking of the amaterasu as regular fire. It does not disappear, till it disintegrates all it touches. And to make matters worse the way it is being executed. Naruto stands no chance.

      It doesn't matter if Momoshiki stole the jutsu. Whatever jutsu he takes, he sends back at several times the power. And the power of the attack that Naruto contained is way stronger than anything Sasuke could do.

      "It does not disappear" So?

      Samurai just had their burning armour removed.

      Ten Tails just dropped its burning flesh.

      Madara dropped his burning armour.

      Naruto just dropped some burning chakra.

      Obito literally just used Kamui on it.

      Even Jiraiya of all people can seal Amaterasu.

      The "execution" of the technique literally doesn't matter in this case; Sasuke does not have the power to overwhelm Naruto's cloak.

      Heck, even Sasuke's Amaterasu Chidori combo didn't actually burn anything when it clashed against Naruto's Rasengan.

      Sasuke simply does not have the power to make Amaterasu useful against Naruto as anything more than a distraction

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    • So what is Naruto going to do in the midst of a jutsu like that? "drop" his burning kyuubi chakra? and then what? burn to death in his base form?

      again, you revert back to the amaterasu being used in a basic way.

      The tailed beast bomb came at Naruto in a solid containable form. The amaterasu will be coming at Naruto in a dispersed uncontainable form. It'll be coming as a category 5 hurricane winds of inextinguishable fire. Yes, the tailed beast bomb dispersed as it exploded and weakened him but didn't vaporize him. But the amaterasu is different. It will burn and burn him to no end. "Dropping" his kyuubi chakra means death.

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: So what is Naruto going to do in the midst of a jutsu like that? "drop" his burning kyuubi chakra? and then what? burn to death in his base form?

      again, you revert back to the amaterasu being used in a basic way.

      The tailed beast bomb came at Naruto in a solid containable form. The amaterasu will be coming at Naruto in a dispersed uncontainable form. It'll be coming as a category 5 hurricane winds of indistinguishable fire. Yes, the tailed beast bomb dispersed as it exploded and weakened him but didn't vaporize him. But the amaterasu is different. It will burn and burn him to no end. "Dropping" his kyuubi chakra means death.


      Ok,i do this just for the sake of it: Sasuke launches his ocean of amaterasu exhausting his entire chakra while Naruto just sits inside a TSB completely protected. Then what? TSB already countered amaterasu before.

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: So what is Naruto going to do in the midst of a jutsu like that? "drop" his burning kyuubi chakra? and then what? burn to death in his base form?

      again, you revert back to the amaterasu being used in a basic way.

      The tailed beast bomb came at Naruto in a solid containable form. The amaterasu will be coming at Naruto in a dispersed uncontainable form. It'll be coming as a category 5 hurricane winds of indistinguishable fire. Yes, the tailed beast bomb dispersed as it exploded and weakened him but didn't vaporize him. But the amaterasu is different. It will burn and burn him to no end. "Dropping" his kyuubi chakra means death.

      Naruto doesn't need to drop Kyuubi chakra until Sasuke exhausts himself, since Amaterasu takes its sweet time to burn anything.

      I'm not reverting to it being used in its most basic forms, I'm reminding you of its properties. It burns very slowly, and it can be avoided. Why is it relevant? Because if Amaterasu burns slowly, Sasuke needs to use force along with the technique to get through Naruto's cloak. He can't rely on Amaterasu to burn through because it's too slow. So he musters all his force into the technique. Still doesn't compare to Momshiki.

      The Tailed Beast Ball, as you say, literally exploded. With way more force than Sasuke could hope to muster with his attack. And Sasuke acknowledged that Naruto could blow away an attack like that too. Naruto could literally just blow an Amaterasu attack like that away, since he could've blasted a stronger attack away.

      Inextinguishable*

      Dropping his Kyuubi chakra doesn't mean death because he doesn't drop all of it lol. Just the burning layers.

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    • @Squinty, you're persistent with sharp analysis but, in this case it won't. I'll repeat again. The way sasuke executes this jutsu. As violent rush of an almost never ending flow, of a vaporizing force. Naruto's death is certain. You guys have to admit it. Just like when Sasuke's susanoo chidori and naruto's tailed beast bomb rasengan clashed and disintegrated each of the others avatars' chakra (at their heads). It's the same thing with this jutsu and naruto's chakra cloak. The only difference is that the after effect is continuous (sasuke's jutsu vaporizes naruto's chakra cloak as though it and him are being melted by acid, and burning still continues after the jutsu is executed. This is when the slow burning starts tbh)

      Then he should have blown away sasuke's fire ball jutsus. Especially the one he caught with his Chakra arm/hand.

      Even though I do agree to the fact that Naruto has more destructive power and chakra than sasuke. This is one way I see sasuke winning. I stand by it

      @Vladosaurus. You have a point (as usual tbh) but Naruto used those up. And sasuke wouldn't use that jutsu so early in the fight

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    • You don't have to keep repeating, Sasuke in no way shape or form has the power to execute a technique on a level that will vaporize Naruto. He can execute a technique all he wants but that's like a 110 pound boy executing the perfect kick with perfect form at a tree. The tree isn't going to snap in half because no matter how he executes his technique, he does not have the power to do it.

      Also, you say "almost never ending flow of vaporizing force." First of all, Sasuke doesn't have the reserves for "almost never ending." Second of all, Amaterasu has shown several times to not be hot enough to vaporize anything beside water.

      We don't have to admit what isn't true. Also you didn't respond to @Vlad either.

      Naruto plus Sasuke = force that's able to somewhat break part of their avatars' faces. But that's Naruto's force added to it, not just Sasuke. Naruto has more force than Sasuke does.

      That after effect won't be continuous because Sasuke doesn't have the reserves to outlast Naruto's reserves. Sasuke doesn't have the chakra to keep burning at Naruto long enough for Naruto to run out out of chakra for a cloak.

      AGain, Amaterasu has shown by feats that it doesn't burn the way you claim. It's not a continuous burn similar to acid. It's hot and it burns slowly, and it can't be put out by normal means. That's the info we have for Amaterasu.

      In the Manga, Naruto catches the fireball and Sasuke appears behind him directly after. Naruto is able to turn and put his arm up before Sasuke strikes. That means either the fireball dissipated or Naruto did indeed blow the fireball away.

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    • So why do they always cancel each other out if Naruto has more force?

      After the jutsu is executed flames left behind from it that touched Naruto would still be burning him. That's what I mean.

      Use your imagination. If the amaterasu is utilized in such a fashion (as if it were the almighty push, or a category 5 hurricane winds of black flames) wouldn't the raging and forceful and speeding burst of such a technique render Naruto's chakra cloak mediocre and useless? Wouldn't speed and the way the amaterasu is being shot out amplify its burning intensity? It'll be like a blow torch fizzing away at metal.

      I can see sasuke maintaining this technique in his complete body susanoo for at least 15-30 seconds (or less) but the real thing to be feared here is the intensity or aggressiveness of the attack.

      It will be made to feel as though it is a violent never ending flow of a vaporizing force because of the intensity of the attack. plus it's after effects:

      "After the jutsu is executed flames left behind from it that touched Naruto would still be burning him. That's what I mean."

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    • Because Naruto and Sasuke's ultimate attacks have approximately the same power. But there's a reason Naruto could spam SHadow CLones and Rasengan as a kid while Sasuke was limited to 2 Chidori. Their gap in power and stamina didn't change much.

      Naruto can literally just shed the bits of his cloak that are burning.

      Amaterasu was utilized with Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken which packs a massive punch along with microscopic blades, and the Ten Tails just shed the burning flesh with no issues. Naruto's chakra cloak isn't useless. Sasuke's highest level of piercing attack was unable to get through Naruto's cloak. A bigger impact area with slow-burning fire won't get through the cloak.

      Sasuke can't bring enough intensity to actually get through Naruto's cloak before Sasuke himself runs out of chakra.

      Again, it's not never-ending

      Also it's not vaporizing anything except water, since Amaterasu burns slow

      Any flames left behind will be shed by Naruto.

      You still ignored @Vlad

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    • XDDDD you are so persistent

      And I did answer him:

      "@Vladosaurus. You have a point (as usual tbh) but Naruto used those up. And sasuke wouldn't use that jutsu so early in the fight."

      @Squinty imagine this scenario, I'll use a scene from the fight instead of making up my own. (even though you could do the same for Naruto, but just remember I said that this is one way I see sasuke winning):

      • Sasuke in his complete body susanoo, while laying flat on its back, in the water claps Naruto's kurama avatar with kirin and teleports away. Naruto rises out of the water after the attack hits him. Then they both have their emotional exchange in dialogue. Naruto then readies his kurama avatar mouth tailed beast bomb rasengan and leaps at sasuke. Instead of sasuke spamming chidori he waits till Naruto gets within a good range to fire the technique. Sasuke spams Amaterasu flames over his CBS's left hand. As Naruto edges closer within range he raises his CBS's left hand (like how pain would with the almighty push) and thinks to himself*

      "Now you die."

      • With Naruto in range. he does it*

      "Inferno style: Flame control armageddon!"

      • BBOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHHHFFFFFFFFFF-FAAAAAHHHHH* <---- XDDDD sound effects.

      what I'm really trying to get at. what do you think would happen after this? @Vlad and Squinty.

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    • Ok, you are assuming that Sasuke had quite a large chakra left after the explosion to spam amaterasu, which he didn’t. He didn’t even have enough chakra to keep chidori up, as seen quite clearly when his chidori faded off and he was shocked. Sasuke already used amaterasu and it failed, and he didn’t have enough chakra to spam it, hence why he didn’t try it afterwards.

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    • @Jimmy, you edited you response to include a response to Vlad, so I missed it.

      @Vlad, I think he's talking about the anime when they didn't have their final clash and they haven't yet put up their final forms (TB SUsanoo and Asura-type Avatar).

      @Jimmmy, regarding your question as to what would happen in you scenario:

      Naruto's cloak ignores Amaterasu, and the force of Deva Path shoves Sasuke back since 6 Tails was enough power to make the push rebound on its user.

      Or.

      Naruto gets blown back, but is unaffected by Amaterasu since higher piercing attacks have failed to get into his cloak. Also Amaterasu burns about as quickly as it would take vinegar to get through an egg shell

      Or.

      Naruto senses it coming because he has the most powerful Sage Mode, and just shoots Tailed Beast Ball as a projectile or beam, cutting through Sasuke's technique.

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    • Oh, the anime fight scene. Ok, Naruto’s cloak activation is way faster than amaterasu. Vs Momoshiki he went SPSM, conjured Kurama’s head and conjured shadow clones to protect the villagers in literally no time at all, after Momoshiki had already launched his attack. In the time Sasuke launches his rain of amaterasu Naruto easily shields himself with either the cloak or, as i said, TSB. He can also use shadow clones to protect himself or a large Rasengan like he did vs Delta.

      Again, amaterasu, in any shape of form, is just not bothering Naruto that much. Does he need his guard up? Yes, obiously, but that’s about it.

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    • @Squinty, narutos cloak does not ignore this level of attack with amaterasu as it gets disintegrated.

      He does not get blown back. His chakra cloak gets vaporized. Leaving his kurama avatar looking like an almost-vatar with most of its chakra disintegrated. And still being burned by reason of after effect. I wonder what madara's light fang would have done to him if it caught him. Kaguya's ash killing bones sure did the trick

      It will cut through as far as it can last the intense burning and pace at which the burning is coming. Thats about it.

      @Vlad, Shield himself with the cloak all he wants, it will still be disintegrated with this level of attack with amaterasu. Regardless of his cloak activation being so called faster.

      Do not speak as though that rasengan wont be disintegrated to. He already used up the truth seeking balls. Plus if you go back to my scenario, where will he get the time to do atleast any much of that? The most he could possibly do is amplify the size of the tailed beast bomb at kuramas mouth. But getting it big enough to shield himself in time wont happen.

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    • @Jimmy literally his cloak has ignored much stronger forces than any attack Sasuke is capable of. He simply does not have the power to make your hypothetical worth anything. His cloak is strong enough to withstand any force Sasuke is capable of and has the properties to nullify the advantages of Amaterasu. Even Kirin, which uses natural force rather than chakra and is therefore a much higher level of technique, did not pierce Naruto's Avatar.

      Naruto only was blown back by a technique that is way more likely to pierce his cloak, Chidori.

      His chakra cloak does not get vaporized because time and time and time and time again, Amaterasu has shown that it is not hot enough to vaporize even flesh at any fast rate. Heck, 4th Raikage straight up shoved his arm in it to hit Sasuke, then later he looked at his still burning arm and just sliced it off.

      Also, Sasuke does not have a technique on the level of Kaguya's Ash Killing Bones, and maybe Madara's Light Fang would have pierced Naruto. Do you know why? Because Lightning Release is one of the 2 natures with the literal purpose of piercing and cutting. And that's why Sasuke tried Chidori on Naruto while he had his cloak up.

      Naruto's attacks have way more power than Sasuke's. Naruto's attacks will get something like a wall of flames. How many times do I have to repeat it? Sasuke simply can't get into a battle of stamina with Naruto. He cannot keep a technique going longer than Naruto can withstand it. That's an entire point of their dynamic; Naruto has more power but lands hits less, Sasuke has less power but lands hits more. Sasuke has to fight smarter, because he will lose an endurance battle with Naruto.

      You ever wonder why Sasuke only ever tried Amaterasu on Naruto when Naruto didn't have his cloak up? In the It's really because Sasuke knows that Amaterasu is legitimately useless against chakra cloaks.

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    • you're right. but you atleast have to admit that an attack like that would disintegrate most of naruto's kurama avatar chakra as big as he releases it. But wouldn't get through to Naruto himself. So sasuke's only hope is to catch Naruto off guard before he can put up any defence. Because ik for sure if sasuke caught Naruto with an attack like that with him in his SPSM cloak alone and no kurama avatar, death is certain for sure. (you're very persistent with sharp analysis I'll give you that)

      I kinda think he does. a chidori, flame control or susanoo chakra all directions spear (reference to sasuke's attack on itachi when they met in a cave first before there battle) being pulled of in CBS, that could do some damage. Plus he can spam, a chidori and flame control sword plus bow and arrow (a susanoo chakra one to but I'm leaving that out of the equation). And, I'll contradict myself with this but, as much as we all think that Naruto has more chakra and power than sasuke. Sasuke also has a lot of spiritual energy, because of the curse of hatred of the Uchiha clan. The way his susanoo evolves/evolved displays this (its as big as naruto's kurama avatar) So Sasuke's chakra reserves, we can say, is just about 2/4 or 3/4 of naruto's. He's just slightly under him. Well atleast in my opinion.

      lol anyway, my perspective has been altered again. (till I think of something else XDDD)

      On another hand though the strongest attack I can envision for Naruto, Sasuke has no chance of surviving it. A kurama avatar, multi shadow clone jutsu, massive tailed beast bomb rasenshuriken barrage.

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    • @Jimmy

      If Sasuke used enough energy to disinigrate most of Naruto's cloak (and idk if he could even manage that), then Sasuke would be running nearly empty on chakra and it would be easy for Naruto to kill him.

      LOL Chidori, Flame Control, none of that is st the same level of Ash Killing Bones. Ash Killing Bones ignore durability, all those other attacks do not.

      Both Chidori and Amaterasu have proven ineffective in piercing Naruto's cloak.

      Yes, Sasuke has less chakra than Naruto. That means again, he can't try to outlast him with a technique, he has to search for openings because he will run out of chakra first if he just tries to burn away Naruto's defense.

      Regarding your hypothetical in Naruto's favour, Sasuke could teleport Naruto in place of himself

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    • yeah, but Naruto would be dispersing almost as much chakra, so both of them would be burned out. lol so ig the anime did it completely right when they both ended in a draw.

      XDDDD

      Yep (just a little bit less). and VS naruto's kurama avatar. But not VS Naruto in SPSM with no kurama avatar.

      lol, I thought that but didn't say it, because I was thinking, what object would be nearby in mid air that he can swap places with? Plus as Vladosaurus said. Ameno is mid range. Sasuke would be cornered from all directions/ angles (and I think you'll agree with me on this because of how you so imply on the amount of Chakra Naruto has) Flying away is not an option. Trying, out of wit, to get close to one of naruto's avatars to pull off Ameno is a nope also. Naruto won't allow that. His only hope is the substitution jutsu or body flicker technique. (man I always contradict myself XDDDD, but would he even think of using those?)

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    • @Jimmy they may disperse the same amount of chakra, but Naruto has a lot more chakra than Sasuke. So even while Sasuke disperses his full reserves, his full reserves don't equal Naruto's. So Naruto would just kill him after.

      What are you talking about? You realize that glowing cloak is a Tailed Beast chakra cloak right? SPSM is just indicated by his cross slit eyes while they lack the pigmentation of regular Sage Mode. Sasuke is not getting through Naruto's strongest Tailed Beast Cloak with Amaterasu if he can't even get through V1.

      Naruto? Did you see how far he was from the Naruto clone he swapped places with in Kaguya's dimension right before they sealed her? That's pretty far.

      Even saying he can't swap with Naruto. Let's say they're too far. He can just swap with one of the incoming Rasenshuriken when they get into range. And he can definitely use it more than once in a row so he can get even further on a second go. Naruto has to be close enough by that Sasuke won't have time to dodge normally. So if NAruto is that close, he'll be in Sasuke's range within 2 jumps max

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    • Naruto would be weary as well, and most of his Chakra would be disintegrated, plus the chakra that's on him would be burning. He'll "drop" that and be in fatigue.

      And what are you talking about? Of course he is with that level of attack. Especially if hit from up close.

      Going by your logic with amaterasu being slow burning. Ameno has been shown to be a one shot move.

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    • Even if he was weary, he'd still have chakra left. Sasuke would be about dead from using all his chakra trying to beat Naruto in a stamina fight. And shedding a thin outter layer of chakra is nothing for Naruto, he showed that when he and Sasuke were forced out of their Susanoo and Kurama Avatars.

      LOL no he's not. Naruto already proved his cloak wasn't getting penetrated by an even more penetrating attack than Amaterasu, and Amaterasu barely even burns the surface when empowerd by an Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken

      "My logic" What? It burns slow.

      Sasuke used Ameno like 3 different times against Madara in a row when he first got his Rinnegan. He tried for a fourth but Madara got too far. So no, it hasn't shown to be a one shot move.

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    • I'm just coming to the realization that you are not using my scenario. Plus the technique would be brief but rapid and largee scale (as I've described many times) I probably should have said brief. But I'll give you something to understand where I'm getting at better....

      Sooo. going back to my scenario. Due to Naruto about to be hit by a jutsu that he wouldn't expect. By a susanoo that is as large and as powerful. Kurama's avatar being in a vulnerable state (even though it is as large and powerful) would in fact be disintegrated as Naruto won't have time to buff up it's chakra like he did VS momoshiki. I'll admit that it won't get directly to Naruto and venture to say that only the stomach portion (Naruto with his cleverness would drop back into there) and a single hind leg from kurama's chakra avatar would be left and be burning. Naruto would "drop" that and try to spam back up his kurama avatar. BBUuUuUTT in that moment Sasuke would already be on the move to catch Naruto off guard. and what happens next? death or a contrary opinion by you?

      Ameno is not an instant repeat move after just being fired then.

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    • I've been using your scenario this entire time. You say Sasuke uses his Amaterasu in a massive powerful attack to vaporize Naruto. And I've told you time and time again why that won't work.

      Naruto's in full battle mode, it wouldn't matter. Naruto wasn't expecting Sasuke to appear behind him and use Chidori, but Sasuke did and it still did not pierce his cloak.

      Kurama's Avatar isn't in a vulnerable state, it's literally as powerful as Perfect Susanoo. Madara has already stated that Perfect Susanoo rivals a Tailed Beast in power.

      No it wouldn't be disintegrated because

      A) Sasuke doesn't have the strength to force the cloak open

      B) Amaterasu's properties don't aid in quickly burning anything, even flesh itself

      Sasuke wouldn't already be on the move because if he uses enough chakra to try to beat Naruto's ridiculous stamina and defenses, Sasuke is near death from Chakra exhaustion.

      ... Where is your proof, exactly? Sasuke never had occasion to use Ameno twice immediately. He's never stated nor shown restriction from it. His only restrictions are that after spamming it like 5 or 6 times, he has to wait a short while to recharge.

      I've given you multiple pieces of evidence as to why Sasuke doesn't have the reserves, why Naruto's defenses are too high, and why Amaterasu's burning characteristics won't help actually get through the cloak more quickly. The difference is I give you examples and evidence from the manga. Your only argument is "It won't do that this time." or "His cloak will get vaporized." But you never actually give any evidence to support your theory that Sasuke has enough chakra, or Naruto has low enough defense compared to Sasuke's stamina, or that Amaterasu burns fast enough to matter in this discussion.

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    • Sasuke in that moment literally has the chance to chidori, flame control, or susanoo chakra all directions spear Naruto (with his susanoo). Or slash him with a sword of all the previous techniques I just mentioned. Or jab him with a lightning blade. Or jab him with an amaterasu attack similar to the lightning blade, infinitely burning him from the inside out (I just can't imagine you saying that Naruto would drop his guts or heart). Even has the opportunity in that moment to susanoo chakra, flame control, lightning arrow him. And it will matter, just like how a direct undisrupted hit from a tailed beast bomb would shatter the susanoo its the same logic with an attack like that VS naruto's kurama chakra avatar.

      It is and you know it. just don't wanna admit it.

      A. An attack like that does have the strength to force the cloak open

      B. The way the amaterasu is shot out along with speed will have a great effect on the cloak.

      The attack is brief but would cause a lot of damage because "The way the amaterasu is shot out (within that brief space of time) along with speed will have a great effect on the cloak." and what I said in my first paragraph would take place.

      it is obvious that it is so (not an instant refiring move) because if it were not so, the anime would have already done it, even the Manga.

      Opposite to you, I am not a chronicler of facts. My imagination is more important than facts. Having loads of facts is semi important. Using my imagination to amplify my facts. That is important. And it is fact that the way the amaterasu would be shot out along with speed would have an effect on naruto's kurama chakra avatar. and kill him with just his cloak alone, especially if hit from up close. I gave scenarios and theories as to why naruto's cloak would be vaporized, you just don't agree with them. Sasuke would have enough chakra and Naruto would have a low defence compared to Sasuke's power soley because of how vulnerable he would be in the scenario I gave. Lastly, Compare the burning intensity of a lit match to a flame thrower. And the impact intensity of releasing breath (to blow or breathe) to a jumbo jet thruster or a rocket thruster.

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: Opposite to you, I am not a chronicler of facts. My imagination is more important than facts. Having loads of facts is semi important.

      Any further discussion with you is pointless because of this. You gave your scenario and called it a way Sasuke would beat Naruto, even going so far as to call it a "plothole." All I've done is show you how your scenario wouldn't actually work in the context of the series and the information we have.

      You can be as imaginative as you want, but the facts go against your scenario. But this "plothole" you keep claiming? It's not a plothole. And I've explained to you why it's not.

      But if you wanna imagine Sasuke having some incredibly powerful attack that he very clearly does not have, more power to you. You just have to realize that nothing supports these imaginations and they only occur in your head. That's fine, you can enjoy the series however you want. But I thought you actually wanted a discussion on the series, not your made up imagined techs that don't fit in the context of the series

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    • understandable. I acknowledge you as good debater though. even with your low opinion of me

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: yeah, but Naruto would be dispersing almost as much chakra, so both of them would be burned out. lol so ig the anime did it completely right when they both ended in a draw.

      XDDDD

      Yep (just a little bit less). and VS naruto's kurama avatar. But not VS Naruto in SPSM with no kurama avatar.

      lol, I thought that but didn't say it, because I was thinking, what object would be nearby in mid air that he can swap places with? Plus as Vladosaurus said. Ameno is mid range. Sasuke would be cornered from all directions/ angles (and I think you'll agree with me on this because of how you so imply on the amount of Chakra Naruto has) Flying away is not an option. Trying, out of wit, to get close to one of naruto's avatars to pull off Ameno is a nope also. Naruto won't allow that. His only hope is the substitution jutsu or body flicker technique. (man I always contradict myself XDDDD, but would he even think of using those?)


      Naruto had been fighting for THREE F**KING DAYS! He shared chakra throughout the ENTIRE shinobi force! He summoned THOUSANDS of clones! He did most of the work against ALL of the bosses! And yet he and Sasuke still ran out of chakra at the same time even after Sasuke stole chakra from ALL NINE TAILED BEASTS! Dude!!! Do NOT compare their chakra reserves!

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    • CeKond wrote: Naruto had been fighting for THREE F**KING DAYS! He shared chakra throughout the ENTIRE shinobi force! He summoned THOUSANDS of clones! He did most of the work against ALL of the bosses! And yet he and Sasuke still ran out of chakra at the same time even after Sasuke stole chakra from ALL NINE TAILED BEASTS! Dude!!! Do NOT compare their chakra reserves!

      Don't bother. He's just giving Sasuke power he doesn't have to fit a scenario that couldn't happen in the series.

      It's not good or bad, anyone can enjoy the series however they want to.

      But having a discussion with him based on actual feats and evidence won't really get you anywhere.

      @Jimmy,next time you decide you wanna have a thread to discuss something like this, make it clear in the OP that it's just your imagination and you wanna have fun with hypothetical that may not fit the series continuity. Otherwise you're gonna have a long drawn out discussion with someone who thought you actually had evidence to back yourself up.

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    • You deliberately picked out a specific piece of my paragraph all because you knew what I said in it was right. Neglecting "Using my imagination to amplify my facts. that is important." <---- that in an attempt to have something to say against me to make it look as though I'm totally wrong. Secondly change in chakra nature and form applies my way of approaching debates. My meaning? It is a fact that sasuke (not only him) can turn his Chakra into lightning changing its chakra nature (see, I'm using actual feats and evidence in this very argument right now, like with all my other arguments).. Though, through creativity and inventiveness he changes its chakra form making a one track technique into a versatile or diverse one. This is one of many examples of raw data being enhanced by creativity (Using imagination to better what is/was already present). The series is so known for all of this.

      But what I'm trying to say is, I did use actual feats and evidence from the series. I shoved those actual feats and evidence into my imagination as though it were an oven and baked up the thought of "What would happen if this were to happen?" My major example, the amaterasu (an actual feat). There is evidence within the series that the amaterasu's form can be manipulated (by sasuke). Sasuke VS the raikage for example (again I am using actual feats and evidence from the series) So in the case of the jutsu I invented for him, it is a fact that he can use it and would be a deadly weapon against Naruto. But just because you never saw it in the anime or Manga you neglect it being possible. Supremely underestimating the other half of Hagoromo's two large chakras (specifically in the scenario I gave). And don't try to contradict me and say that I to am underestimating Naruto. For I have already admitted that if the susanno was hit by an undisrupted attack from a tailed beast bomb it would be shattered. I have already admitted that Naruto has more chakra than sasuke (for various reasons). But specifically in the scenario I gave, vulnerability leads to defeat. No matter how powerful you are. Guys night guy kick VS zetzu's madara stab to the back is one good example of this. An outrageous attack nearly annihilates that specific madara, but a stab to the back from a weak historical peasant pierces him, with another form (I could say) of the tailed beast chakra cloak or covering (this would be better to say) all over him? absolutely ridiculous. Zetsu's only notable feat is his body dismantling thingy or what ever to call it and talking a lot, and being a bitch for his "mom". There are other examples ik it, cause I can sense it, but I just can't think of any right now. All in all, what ever. And wait, before I leave this comment. Imagine (using one of your examples) Sasuke (with lightning style spammed over his fucking hand) couldn't pierce naruto's cloak and mutilate his face. But zetsu, a God damn weakling, a fabricated son of a celestial bitch pierces frickin madara through the back in tailed beast state. sigh. I could understand if it were iruka sensei. But madara? in that state? sigh part 2 (look at how much of a pussy he was VS Kakashi and Minato. Then now VS madara a jab to the back from him is more powerful than the lightning blade). plus madara absorbed the god tree.

      Obito did it to, but Obito is different to zetzu. and I don't really have much to say on that unless you, a facts machine can tell me the dynamics of how and why that happened. A mere human piercing the power of God (not specifically madara but the literal power itself) when another mere human (sasuke VS Naruto) couldn't. Is the anime trying to tell us that the ash killing bones is equal in power to a stab from zetsu? Are they trying to tell us that a susanoo-kurama avatar slash is equal in power to a jab from Obito? Enhance my wisdom and reasoning oh demi God of facts.

      Sasuke cut madara in half with a lightning sword. Kaguya's whore zetsu pierces madara with no sort of serious power at all. sigh part 3 and ps. I hope you are seeing the contradictions I'm talking about. Seriously, this is really like saying Hagoromo's stab with his lightning technique on his brother, pales in comparison to a stab to the back from, pussysu, bitchsu. That will faeces, false living walking piece of dark coloured trash. Vomit. Horse poop.

      And yes @Cekond. It is an immense fact that if Naruto fought against sasuke seriously he would lose (sasuke) . He does have more chakra than sasuke, solely because of kurama, because I doubt any of that would ever happen (sharing his Chakra) if he had only Sage mode. but that is not the argument. I still see scenarios of sasuke winning. not only because of that technique I invented for him with amaterasu, in that specific scenario. but also because of rinnegan abilities and his own unique to him abilities with the rinnegan. His shrewdness. His cutting edge, technical, 1000 men in one way of fighting.

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    • No, I didn't know you were right. I in fact don't think you're right. You've given no evidence til then that you were right, instead saying "this time it'll work." Lol okay.

      AMaterasu's form can be manipulated, but there's still a limit to how much force Sasuke can put behind it. In any case, you original scenario was literally just Sasuke spewing flames out in your "Category 5 Hurricane winds" which I reminded you he just didn't have the power to do, at least for a duration that would kill Naruto.

      I didn't see your jutsu in the manga or anime, I see facts literally contradicting your supposed jutsu, but now I'm in the wrong for stating how it doesn't work the way you want it to? Sasuke legitimately doesn't have the reserves to force his way through Naruto's cloak, and Amaterasu will not burn through it for him.

      Considering Black Zetsu is the will of Kaguya and most likely has intimate knowledge of how to specifically unleash Kaguya once the components of her chakra are there, I don't see it as an issue that BZ was able to pierce Madara. It seems most likely that it happened because BZ was bringing forth Kaguya, not because he had more power than Madara.

      Your comparison made no sense. You're saying using a moment of Sasuke vs Naruto and comparing it to BZ vs Madara. There's no connection. In any case I already gave you my opinion of BZ piercing Madara.

      Also during BZ vs Kakashi and Minato, wasn't he legitimately holding both of them off just fine? And then stole Kurama faster than Minato, the Yellow Flash of Konoha, could react? Keep in mind that Minato can teleport in front of 8 Gates Guy using Evening Elephant (in its fastest step), catch Truth Seeker Orbs, and teleport back out before Guy plowed him over. And BZ was able to take Kurama from him before he could react. BZ isn't some slouch.

      Also again, BZ's hand stab probably isn't more powerful than Chidori. It's probably a combination of BZ basically being a weak version of Kaguya, BZ activating everything within Madara to form Kaguya, etc.

      The fact that it was Obito's body that did if both times probably helped too. OBito still contained Six Paths chakra at that point, which makes it easier for him to harm TTJs.

      How exactly am I a "facts machine"? I'm not creating facts. I show you evidence from the Manga and tell you how I drew my conclusions. I'm not creating facts.

      Again, Obito had six paths power and also had a weak version of Kaguya attached, he's not just some human.

      Ash Killing Bones is easily on another level since it disintegrates regardless of Cloaks, durability, life force, regen, etc. It's not the same as BZ bringing back Kaguya.

      Again, no serious power up? Six Paths power. When Obito transfered his chakra to Kakashi, he had enough power to make a Perfect SUsanoo with the techs to severely injure Kaguya herself. BZ is not as weak as you claim, especially while hosting Obito's body.

      Naruto doesn't have more chakra solely because of Kurama. If you remember, in Part 1, Sasuke had approximately half of Kakashi's chakra (Sasuke could use Chidori twice vs Kakashi's four times). But Naruto's own reserves were at least four times Kakashi's own, and Kakashi noted that if Naruto mastered Kurama's chakra as well, he could be well over 100 times his own chakra. So base Naruto has more chakra than base Sasuke. They both have more chakra than most though.

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    • Not REALLY a plot hole.

      Naruto used the cloack of the Tailed Beasts' Chakra to block and then remove the black flames from his body. The rest were Shadow Clones.

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    • And I am glad that you admitted that. it's true that sasuke can't beat Naruto in a stamina battle. But vulnerability in that scenario leads him closer and closer to a grave.

      Continue to deny something that is true.

      It did make sense. Sasuke couldn't pierce naruto's cloak and dismantle or tear apart his face with his lightning blade (like kabuto vs Orochimaru) but zetsu pierces madara in tailed beast state? Please do not make that nursling pussy even sound strong.

      Holding them off? They didn't want to harm Obito. He himself admitted that if he detached from Obito he would die. Minato wasn't even expecting that. He did it subtly without Minato's knowledge or awareness.

      That in itself is stringing together facts.

      A human who possessed oozes of the power of God. With out it that piercing would never happen. Zetsu is weak, full stop.

      So you are saying that he pierced madara using six paths senjutsu? because of oozes of it left on Obito as he was in the state before? That I understand and accept completely.

      He is nothing without attaching himself to anybodys' body for the matter. Only being able to stand against the mizukage because of white zetsu with wood Style. Piercing madara because of Obito and couldn't do anything vs Kakashi and Minato if he detached from Obito. He is weak. He is a pussy. I will accept nothing else pertaining to him other than that. Wtf did he do VS team seven when they fought to seal kaguya? Talk? A lot? Smh

      Naruto's large reserves is because of kurama. To debate that is utter blindness and obstinacy. Yes if he perfectly unleashed 'KURAMA'S' chakra.

      @Stoyan. I mean his black flames all directions spear attack on Naruto when they were fighting atop hashi's stone monument. The flames didn't even begin to burn the chakra hand. Which it should have. But as a couple here have said, he could drop it if any burning started. So that scenario to is out of the equation.

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    • I'm not denying any truth, you're failing to give convincing evidence of your claim.

      Again, Zetsu was in possession of Six Paths Senjutsu and has speeds that outplay Minato.

      Good point about them not wanting to harm Obito, I'd forgotten about that. But again, Black Zetsu literally just got in front of Minato's hand and let Minato give him Kurama. Minato's reflexes are insane, and BZ was right in front of his hand where he was looking. BZ is fast.

      I don't make facts. I'm literally just giving you evidence from the manga and telling you what I conclude from it.

      While BZ is formidable, what exactly do you want him to do against SPSM Naruto with a cloak powered by Tailed Beasts and Rinnegan Sasuke? All he can do is advise his mother. And he did. It led to their near death a few times.

      Naruto's large reserves are not only because of Kurama. His large reserves are due to his Uzamaki lineage. Does Kurama make up the majority of his pool of chakra? Absolutely. But if you took away Kurama's chakra, he still has more reserves than most people in the Naruto universe.

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    • Sasuke is the other half of Hagoromo's two large chakras. That is all I can say.

      yeah I understand.

      Still a weak pussy on his own. Having speed alone.

      Exactly, you just agreed with me through this argument. He is weak. He could have even come out in his pussy ass to fight Kakashi. Being more than thousands of years old, such a pussy. In terms of combat he is a dud. In anything with brains, I'll acknowledge his aptitude.

      and yeah, that's true.

      Also in any hope of you seeing this edited part of my reply. You'll agree with me that six paths chakra is greater than the tailed beast chakra right? (since you don't agree with me in them being six paths chakra or senjutsu by themself)

      If so, why did naruto's six paths senjutsu, kurama avatar's punch get so canceled out by sasuke's tailed beast chakra enhanced susanoo (I'd say six paths senjutsu chakra enhanced but...) Six paths senjutsu pierced six paths senjutsu (zetsubito vs Juubidara) But here and now, specifically in this scenario, six paths senjutsu seems to pale in comparison to tailed beast Chakra. And even if I said it was a six paths senjutsu enhanced susanoo, the punch still got nullified and zetsubito pierced madara. so what's going on here? Plus kurama's chakra had no effect on juubito, yet here and now the tailed beasts chakra is stronger than six paths senjutsu. Contradictions I tell you.

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    • They both have an equal amount of Hagoromo's chakra, but Naruto has a higher level of chakra without it so of course he still has much more chakra with it.

      You realize that speed is a big part of how much power one can impart right? Force is equal to mass times acceleration. Going fast enough, a ping pong ball can have the same force as a bullet.

      I didn't agree that he was weak. Just weaker than the ridiculous opponents we've seen him against.


      Naruto's power ups after Hagoromo were his Tailed Beast Cloak that contained half of Kurama and a little chakra from the other beasts, and Six Paths Sage Mode.

      Sasuke's power ups after Hagoromo were his Rinnegan and a significant boost in power.

      Now at this point, the two characters are approximately equal.

      So obviously when Sasuke added all 9 Tailed Beasts to himself, he'd be much stronger than Naruto at that point.

      The punch was nullified because not only does Sasuke have Six Paths power himself, he also had way, way more chakra than Naruto did at that point. Sasuke using all that Tailed Beast chakra to utilize his Six Paths techniques simply made him too much for Naruto to handle. Sasuke was just ridiculously more powerful until Naruto had to have Kurama absorb nearly all the Nature Energy in the area to make Sage chakra for him.

      Tailed Beast chakra in and of itself is not stronger than Six Paths Senjutsu. it was a case of quantity over quality; Sasuke just had massive amounts of chakra at his disposal and used it to power his Six Paths power.

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    • He inherited more of his mother's genes in terms of spirit, yeah. If he grew up without kurama, his reserves would be large (Uzumaki/Senju lineage), but not as large as it would be with Kurama. Growing up without kurama, he'd end being just like hashirama, with sage mode being his extra source of chakra. Significantly enhancing his own chakra (if not higher) as high as it would be with Kurama. The only dif is that he wouldn't have chakra extension arms, the chakra cloak and the tailed beast bomb. But this contradicts me saying that he wouldn't have been able to share his chakra with the ASF ninja if he only had Sage mode. Ig they'd get a significant power boost but wouldn't be as protected as no cloak would be present. But then again nature energy for any and anybody is hard to channel so. I should do an Adult KCM Naruto vs Hashirama thread. And an Adult Sage Mode Naruto vs Hashirama one to. But I'm really not sure if this is right.

      With that argument, you unconsciously admit that the attack I invented for sasuke would work and be effective.

      (This might not make sense but) Equal in terms of the power they possessed. being split half-half (mind-body/the climax of mental and spiritual energy vs the climax of physical power and prowess). But not equal in terms of chakra.

      Like Naruto vs neji when he used the nine tails chakra to release his closed chakra points.

      Yeah

      Yeah. Increased six paths hate/dark/mental and spiritual chakra.

      Lool, exactly like how Naruto gathered additional senjutsu and increased his six paths power. I understand now

      So they're both equal, but one just has more chakra.

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    • Jimmy HE73 wrote: With that argument, you unconsciously admit that the attack I invented for sasuke would work and be effective.

      I'm gonna need you to do me a big ol favour and don't claim that I did things I didn't do.

      Force is mass times acceleration, like I said. Well guess how much mass fire has?

      About 4 times less than air. Meaning it'd be harder for Sasuke to put force behind his fire attack than it is for him to use just about any other technique. Normally this would be offset by the fact that fire also burns, but Amaterasu burns slow as heck.

      Jimmy HE73 wrote: So they're both equal, but one just has more chakra.

      That is exactly correct. That's why Sasuke can't just try to wear Naruto down in a stamina battle. He has to fight much smarter and waste minimal chakra and effort.

      And Sasuke is good at doing exactly that, so in terms of combat they're equal. In certain situations, Sasuke is better, but in others, Naruto is.

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    • So. In all of this lengthy discussion we had (that you probably didn't even enjoy, with a complete stranger both literal and pertaining to me being a newcomer here). Who do you actually think is stronger out of Naruto and sasuke?

      And secondly why'd you change you're account name? Asian Reaper sounded cool

      Thirdly. Itachi's amaterasu vs the 4th mizukage's (the kid looking one) tailed beast cloak sure didn't look like it burned slow. And that was it being used in a basic way.

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    • I'm on this wiki because I enjoy talking about it. Any irritation I have is secondary to me liking these discussions; otherwise, I wouldn't be here at all. I don't really care that you're a newcomer, the most annoying thing is when you said facts were secondary to your imagination. But I don't have anything against you personally and you've brought more conversation to these dying forums, so it's whatever.

      Stronger? Naruto. Combat prowess overall? Equal. Who'd win in an all out fight? In my opinion it's a toss-up.

      Changed my name because I chose it at an edgier time in my life (6 years ago). Besides, while I meant it to be an indicator of my race and also homage to a character set from an old DS game I like (TWEWY), it could be misconstrued as calling myself a "reaper of Asians." WHile that'd be funny, it's not really something I wanted to have as a username anymore.

      Squinty is a name I started using a few years ago and it's stuck. Most of my gaming and drawing accounts now have Squinty in the name somehow

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    • Loooool. Facts are semi important for real. I came here thinking there would be lots of people here wanting share endless ideas. Ig I showed up too late?

      The anime should do special editions of fights that the fans so want to see. But ig that would be a waste of time?

      And ohhh looool

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    • Facts aren't just semi important when you're calling a moment in the series a plot hole. People here discuss hypotheticals and whatnot, but they're all based around the facts of the series.

      If you wanna have a discussion about different takes and ideas for the series, that's fine. Make a thread for that. But when you make a thread claiming that something doesn't make sense in the series when it in fact did make sense because of the facts the series presented, people are obviously going to let you know.

      Essentially, this thread was you saying that parts of the end battle didn't make sense. Then I started telling you how it did make sense based on evidence from the series, but you then said facts matter less than your imagination.

      How does it make sense to start a discussion saying something was wrong about the series, but disregarding the facts in favor of your imagination?

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    • They are considering that Sasuke is the other half of Hagoromo's two large chakras, so imaginatevly him being able to wreck naruto's cloak. with the jutsu I made, ESPECIALLY in a vulnerable state, is possible. Sasuke being the other half of Hagoromo's two large chakras is a fact of the series.

      I regarded the facts then I used my imagination and ^^ (see the facts were semi important, my imagination amplified them (see my imagination being more important). The facts are the foundation, equipment, material or tools for my arguments. My imagination is the actual builder)

      Plus "Itachi's amaterasu vs the 4th mizukage's (the kid looking one) tailed beast cloak sure didn't look like it burned slow. And that was it being used in a basic way." Not to mention his amaterasu vs sasuke's fireball jutsu during their battle. That didn't burn sasuke's fire slow. Clearly the amaterasu is stronger than regular fire. And clearly you're mistaken about it being a slow burner. And clearly if sasuke used the technique I gave him it would work. And clearly he can put the kind of force I implied behind it. Because, the other half of Hagoromo's two large chakras here. But true you so diminish and devalue it you make it seem as though it won't work. Sadly I just remembered these. I gotta go an actually research now. And true you so favour Naruto over sasuke, and because of how the story portrays it. You feel he's ultimately weaker. I for one tbh favour Naruto over sasuke. But I for one also see other scenarios where sasuke can actually win.

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    • @Jimmy, no, facts are not secondary to your imagination. Not at all.

      Sasuke has half of Hagoromo's power plus his own. Naruto has half of Hagoromo's power plus his own. Since they both have equal parts of Hagoromo's power, then it's obvious that Naruto wins in how much chakra he has because he had 4 times more than Sasuke to begin with, and that's excluding Kurama. And why would you think Naruto is in a vulnerable state? He has his literal Avatar and cloak on and is battling against the only one in the world who could actually kill him. His guard is up for this whole battle.

      You're not really using facts properly though. Essentially you're twisting your facts to suit your theory instead of twisting your theory to suit the facts.

      Considering that one feat of Amaterasu burning fast contradicts every other feat from the series and it's an anime-only filler, I'm gonna stick with every other account of it burning literally slow enough to just take your armor off.

      Amaterasu burned through Sasuke's fireball slow enough for him to still be able to react to it, how is that not slow to you?

      Then Sasuke, who is not one of the speedsters of the series, is able to run from Itachi's Amaterasu for a short while. And when it did finally actually hit him, it still burned slow enough for Sasuke to substitute out of his own skin.

      Sasuke even mentioned that he planned to use his substitution once Itachi pulled Amaterasu, so it can be argued that Sasuke let Itachi hit him in order to spread Amaterasu so he could take advantage of its heat for storm clouds.

      "And clearly you're mistaken about it being a slow burner."

      One anime-only filler battle does not counteract the rest of the feats from the actual manga drawn by the author.

      "And clearly if sasuke used the technique I gave him it would work."

      Nope. Already explained why.

      Also again, half of Hagoromo's chakra is nice, but Sasuke and Naruto both received the same level of power from Hagoromo. So Naruto still has more chakra than Sasuke because he started with more.

      "And clearly he can put the kind of force I implied behind it."

      And how did you come to this conclusion? Because he's never used that kind of force before, and like I explained it's not even efficient to try to put that much force behind it. The most impact Amaterasu had in terms of force was when Naruto combined his Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken at it, and it still only did minor damage to the Ten Tails. Last I checked, Naruto isn't lending his technique to Sasuke again only for it to be used on himself.

      I'm not diminishing it or devaluing it. I'm showing you why the manga contradicts your imagination.

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    • Vulnerable in the scenario I gave, or if sasuke ever catches him off guard. So you're trying to tell me that flying through the air with a tailed beast bomb at the mouth of you're avatar is being on guard vs an attack coming like how I described? Not having any time to buff up his Chakra, like vs momoshiki is being on guard vs an attack coming like that?

      This part of your comment is really talking about you with the last part of your comment. And I am actually doing the exact opposite of what you think I am doing. If both of them are equal in power but not chakra or stamina and the other is getting ready to fire an attack with a great extent of his own power briefly. While the other is only using a small fragment of his own power (the tailed beast bomb at the mouth) in a condition or situation where he doesn't have the time to buff up his Chakra (to match the extent of power that is going to be released by his foe). Who do you think reigns victorious in this scenario? It's just like madara when he got stabbed in the back from hashi's wood clone. If he knew that was coming he could have spammed susanoo ribs and that attempted sword stab would be rendered futile. And as I admitted. Only the stomach portion (below the breasts) and a single hind leg would be left. Regardless if the kurama avatar is as powerful when spammed as the susanoo. One is exerting more power than the other in that scenario. Rendering them momentarily unequal in that scenario, as equals. As I will say again. If the susanoo were hit by an undisrupted attack by a tailed beast bomb it would be shattered. Just like how there would be an effect on naruto's kurama avatar in this portrayed scenario.

      Again, that's the amaterasu being used In a basic way. And that wasn't really slow. It sure didn't look and sound like you're vinegar analogy. It moved at a sort of jogging pace but still eventually disintegrated the fire ball. Just like how if fired the way I described it would burn more intensely and faster and would be stronger. Imagine you try to back up for zetsus speed but can't back up for this where the same concepts can be applied. "You're not really using facts properly though. Essentially you're twisting your facts to suit your theory instead of twisting your theory to suit the facts." this is so you and not me. Continually (I went and did my research), sasuke's amaterasu vs danzo burned exactly how I described it but still eventually disintegrated him then he used izanagi. Itachi's amaterasu vs nagato's dog summoning during the war, burned just a little bit faster than how I described it and eventually disintegrated the dog summoning. and keep in mind it was a big target. And it burned at nagato's reanimated body just like how I described it and would have eventually disintegrated him if he hadn't absorbed it. Sasuke's flame control sword cut a ten tails body wall in half (made by some of its body creations). I'm saying this to say that change in chakra form worsens or amplifies the effects of the amaterasu (or any jutsu for the matter) So the jutsu I invented for sasuke, that applies change in chakra form would work. Sasuke's flames also burned quickly through shins metal knives or tools that hit Sakura. And also look at how intensely sasuke's amaterasu hit juubito's spinning black rod. Imagine it now being fired the way I described. Dude the jutsu can work.

      Sasuke isn't one of the what? You're kidding right.

      "Nope. Already explained why.

      Also again, half of Hagoromo's chakra is nice, but Sasuke and Naruto both received the same level of power from Hagoromo. So Naruto still has more chakra than Sasuke because he started with more."

      See my second paragraph ^

      Same thing I said. Just because you've never seen it in the anime or Manga you neglect it being possible. And not really, sasuke's flame control arrow vs one of the ten tails body creations had a good amount of force (not as much but..) behind it, because of its change in chakra form. And see why imagination is more important than facts? With facts just being a supplementer to your imagination? With that significant power boost he should be able to pull it off. You underestimate sasuke and the amaterasu (Plus the rasenshuriken inside the flame control didn't even explode like it should have. We only saw effects of the amaterasu on the ten tails. The shit got disintegrated as it hit, so much for burning slow as heck or like vinegar). Factual thinkers are more times out of most superficial thinkers. But a notable quality is that they are very shrewd. Deeper insight makes you see things that you wouldn't really see. Regarding things that you have already seen but managing to see other things because of what you saw. Hence with you believing that sasuke can't put the necessary force behind the attack I invented for him, disregarding the significant power boost he got. Only going by what you saw. With how amaterasu burns (which you are totally wrong with) and the amount of force he has put behind any attack with amaterasu. With the power he has he should be able to do it.

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    • Can you at least try to separate your thoughts into more functional paragraphs? sifting through your walls of text is irritating and doesn't make it easy to actually see and counter each point.

      Naruto isn't vulnerable in the situation you gave. Ya know why? Because he has sensing far beyond any sensor in the series. Toad Sage Mode grants predictive capabilities comparable to the Sharingan, SPSM is way above that. He would easily sense any attack like that coming.

      When Madara got stabbed in the back by Hashirama, he definitely wouldn't have spammed Susanoo. He didn't even have enough chakra to activate his Sharingan, What makes you think he had enough for Susanoo of all things?

      Again, Kurama's Avatar wouldn't be disintegrated. He'd sense it coming. And either block or use Kurama's shockwave or dodge.

      Amaterasu is very slow in terms of the abilities of most Shinobi in the series, since pretty much everyone of importance got out of it by just leaving the burning bit behind before it burned too far.

      Regarding the Danzo fight, we didn't even see how fast it burned, it was shown in a close shot for one panel. That's not usable as an example.

      Regarding Itachi vs Nagato, I'me surprised I have to explain this but of course the summons were burned. They were mindless beasts. When I keep telling you that Amaterasu burns slow, I keep telling you that relative to Shinobi of the series. It's slow to all the Ninja and Samurai. So many have been able to avoid it because to them, it doesn't burn that fast.

      That's why Nagato was able to dispel the Amaterasu on him just fine.

      "Sasuke isn't one of the what? You're kidding right."

      No idea what this sentence means, elaborate?

      No, I don't neglect things being possible simply because I've never seen it.

      For example, it's probably possible for Sasuke to form 8 Shadow Clones, chain Chidori between them and us the strings of lightning to dice people to tiny bits.

      The difference is, the facts of the series supports that this is possible. Sasuke has enough chakra to be okay dividing it into 8 parts, he has enough skill with Chidori to do with it what he will, and we've already seen Lightning Release chained before.

      Your scenario doesn't fit the same category because there's so much evidence to the contrary of what you're claiming. I don't disagree with you simply because your technique hasn't been seen. I disagree because your technique isn't supported by the series, it's only supported by your imagination and outliers.

      Sasuke's Flame Control Arrow didn't have more force behind it because it was changed to an arrow, it had more force because it was shot out of a Susanoo bow.

      I don't care that Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken didn't explode, because having a Wind Release tech backing up Amaterasu made it hit WAY harder, especially consering it's still a variant of the Rasengan. Which makes sense, because air is 4 times heavier than fire, so it'd be way easier to impart force.

      I saw the effect Amaterasu had on the Ten Tails. It got hit, it screamed, and then just shed the burning flesh. If it has time to just shed its burning flesh, it burns slow.

      And I think you misunderstand my earlier analogy. You compared your technique to corrosive acid. Well the burning properies of Amaterasu are meant to correlate with the acid in your scenario right? But the amount of burning necessary to get through Kurama's cloak is far beyond what Amaterasu is capable of. So my anaolgy meant that if it took something like "corrosive acid" to burn through Kurama's cloak, Amaterasu is closer in burning spead to Vinegar by comparison. It's relative, I wasn't saying Amaterasu literally burned as slow as vinegar.

      Factual thinkers are often superficial thinkers? Um, okay. Got any citations for that or did that come out of your imagination too?

      I'm not disregarding any power boost Sasuke got. I just know it wouldn't help because Naruto got an equal power boost, so their difference in power is still the same.

      Amaterasu could hardly burn a small portion of the Ten Tails when it was empowered in a way Sasuke can't actually do himself. What makes you think Sasuke could suddenly make his attack more powerful?

      And by more powerful, again, remember it's relative. Because Sasuke and Naruto got the same power boost. I know Sasuke is stronger than when they combined their techniques, but so is Naruto and by the same margin.

      I'm not wrong about Amaterasu, Sasuke going for the kill against Samurai couldn't even burn them through before the Samurai were able to have a conversation about it and then Gaara pulled the armor off them.

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    • "Can you at least try to separate your thoughts into more functional paragraphs? sifting through your walls of text is irritating and doesn't make it easy to actually see and counter each point."

      Lol each paragraph is a counter to each point you make. But lol okay I'll do some thing for ya.

      "Naruto isn't vulnerable in the situation you gave. Ya know why? Because he has sensing far beyond any sensor in the series. Toad Sage Mode grants predictive capabilities comparable to the Sharingan, SPSM is way above that. He would easily sense any attack like that coming."

      Then how would he dodge it?

      "When Madara got stabbed in the back by Hashirama, he definitely wouldn't have spammed Susanoo. He didn't even have enough chakra to activate his Sharingan, What makes you think he had enough for Susanoo of all things?"

      I just happened to remember it and used it as an analogy, but regardless, if he had the stamina surely he would have done what I said. And I was really just trying to draw reference to my major point about Naruto being vulnerable. And not having time to counter. Because if he did, yeah, you get what I mean. But let's not take that to seriously.

      "Again, Kurama's Avatar wouldn't be disintegrated. He'd sense it coming. And either block or use Kurama's shockwave or dodge."

      Man lmfao smh, you are so hard to convince.

      "Amaterasu is very slow in terms of the abilities of most Shinobi in the series, since pretty much everyone of importance got out of it by just leaving the burning bit behind before it burned too far."

      After I took time to research and literally gave scenarios you're still going with this? XXDDD Man you'd make a great lawyer.

      "Regarding the Danzo fight, we didn't even see how fast it burned, it was shown in a close shot for one panel. That's not usable as an example."

      Rewatch and you'll see.

      "Regarding Itachi vs Nagato, I'me surprised I have to explain this but of course the summons were burned. They were mindless beasts. When I keep telling you that Amaterasu burns slow, I keep telling you that relative to Shinobi of the series. It's slow to all the Ninja and Samurai. So many have been able to avoid it because to them, it doesn't burn that fast."

      You are extremely hard to convince. XDDDD

      ""Sasuke isn't one of the what? You're kidding right." No idea what this sentence means, elaborate?"

      Sasuke is in the top seven fastest ninja in the Naruto verse. How could you say such a thing?

      "No, I don't neglect things being possible simply because I've never seen it. For example, it's probably possible for Sasuke to form 8 Shadow Clones, chain Chidori between them and us the strings of lightning to dice people to tiny bits. The difference is, the facts of the series supports that this is possible. Sasuke has enough chakra to be okay dividing it into 8 parts, he has enough skill with Chidori to do with it what he will, and we've already seen Lightning Release chained before. Your scenario doesn't fit the same category because there's so much evidence to the contrary of what you're claiming. I don't disagree with you simply because your technique hasn't been seen. I disagree because your technique isn't supported by the series, it's only supported by your imagination and outliers."
      

      Man I'm seriously giving up. XDDD I have to think of another scenario then.

      "Sasuke's Flame Control Arrow didn't have more force behind it because it was changed to an arrow, it had more force because it was shot out of a Susanoo bow."

      Nar bruh, he literally fired it himself. It was vs one of the ten tails body creations. Naruto threw a rasenshuriken (in KCM) at one beside the one sasuke shot his flame control arrow at. I could give you the link. Considering if it really matters to you.

      "I don't care that Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken didn't explode, because having a Wind Release tech backing up Amaterasu made it hit WAY harder, especially consering it's still a variant of the Rasengan. Which makes sense, because air is 4 times heavier than fire, so it'd be way easier to impart force.

      Lmfaooo, you are persistent as hell

      "I saw the effect Amaterasu had on the Ten Tails. It got hit, it screamed, and then just shed the burning flesh. If it has time to just shed its burning flesh, it burns slow."

      Lmfaooo, wow, "Regarding Itachi vs Nagato, I'me surprised I have to explain this but of course the summons were burned. They were mindless beasts. When I keep telling you that Amaterasu burns slow, I keep telling you that relative to Shinobi of the series. It's slow to all the Ninja and Samurai. So many have been able to avoid it because to them, it doesn't burn that fast." And you seem to be forgetting when I told you how it burned edo nagato. lool man

      "And I think you misunderstand my earlier analogy. You compared your technique to corrosive acid. Well the burning properies of Amaterasu are meant to correlate with the acid in your scenario right? But the amount of burning necessary to get through Kurama's cloak is far beyond what Amaterasu is capable of. So my anaolgy meant that if it took something like "corrosive acid" to burn through Kurama's cloak, Amaterasu is closer in burning spead to Vinegar by comparison. It's relative, I wasn't saying Amaterasu literally burned as slow as vinegar."

      But I researched man and showed you you were wrong XDD

      "Factual thinkers are often superficial thinkers? Um, okay. Got any citations for that or did that come out of your imagination too?"

      This is something I learned from experience (experience similar to facts aiding my imagination/deep thought). Factual thinkers tend to lack empathy.

      "I'm not disregarding any power boost Sasuke got. I just know it wouldn't help because Naruto got an equal power boost, so their difference in power is still the same."

      Citation from one of my paragraphs, "If both of them are equal in power but not chakra or stamina and the other is getting ready to fire an attack with a great extent of his own power briefly. While the other is only using a small fragment of his own power (the tailed beast bomb at the mouth) in a condition or situation where he doesn't have the time to buff up his Chakra (to match the extent of power that is going to be released by his foe). Who do you think reigns victorious in this scenario? One is exerting more power than the other in that scenario. Rendering them momentarily unequal in that scenario, as equals. As I will say again. If the susanoo were hit by an undisrupted attack by a tailed beast bomb it would be shattered. Just like how there would be an effect on naruto's kurama avatar in this portrayed scenario."

      "Amaterasu could hardly burn a small portion of the Ten Tails when it was empowered in a way Sasuke can't actually do himself. What makes you think Sasuke could suddenly make his attack more powerful?"

      Citation from one of my paragraphs, "Same thing I said. Just because you've never seen it in the anime or Manga you neglect it being possible. And not really, sasuke's flame control arrow vs one of the ten tails body creations had a good amount of force (not as much but..) behind it, because of its change in chakra form. And see why imagination is more important than facts? With facts just being a supplementer to your imagination? With that significant power boost he should be able to pull it off. You underestimate sasuke and the amaterasu (Plus the rasenshuriken inside the flame control didn't even explode like it should have. We only saw effects of the amaterasu on the ten tails. The shit got disintegrated as it hit, so much for burning slow as heck or like vinegar). Factual thinkers are more times out of most superficial thinkers. But a notable quality is that they are very shrewd. Deeper insight makes you see things that you wouldn't really see. Regarding things that you have already seen but managing to see other things because of what you saw. Hence with you believing that sasuke can't put the necessary force behind the attack I invented for him, disregarding the significant power boost he got. Only going by what you saw. With how amaterasu burns (which you are totally wrong with) and the amount of force he has put behind any attack with amaterasu. With the power he has he should be able to do it."

      "I'm not wrong about Amaterasu, Sasuke going for the kill against Samurai couldn't even burn them through before the Samurai were able to have a conversation about it and then Gaara pulled the armor off them."

      After all my research? XDDD

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    • Each paragraph is a counter to each point I make, but since you didn't do the same to your own paragraphs (as in, separate your points into paragraphs, instead of putting all your points into one paragraph), it was much harder for me to do the same. Thank you for humoring me.

      Going up, down, right, left, etc. But in truth he doesn't need to dodge it. He just needs to releease more chakra and defend. Because Sasuke has neither the force nor the burning capabilities to get through any defense Naruto makes.

      Madara was vulnerable in the scenario because he was so low on chakra that he didn't notice the wood clones because his Sharingan deactivated.

      Depends on how you try to convince me.

      Good job on finding evidence to illustrate your point, but there's more pointing to Shinobi and Samurai being able to react fast enough to escape Amaterasu when it's in their abilities to do so.

      I read the manga. The anime is hard to guage time with because they stretch and shrink time for effect. For example, they could have simply made Danzo burn faster for more of a reveal that he was unaffected. Or they might have cut time due to cost. Another example of time being messed with is when Kakashi and Obito saved Naruto and Sasuke from Ash Killing Bones. Ash Killing Bones are very fast, but it crawled to them for effect.

      Also keep in mind, Danzo likely let Amaterasu just burn him since the damage would easily be undone by Izanagi. It was his crutch in that battle; he used it to dodge kunai/shuriken lol.

      Oh, yo're talking about those five or six little arrows he fired to save Sakura? Yeah, idk about them having much force.

      Okay I'm persistent then.

      I'm not forgetting how it burned Edo Nagato. The emaciated cripple who wasn't even in control of his own actions was able to dispel it before it burned too much. Am I supposed to be impressed by Amaterasu in that scenario?

      You didn't prove me wrong. You compared the burning needed to get through Naruto's cloak as a corrosive acid. And I'm telling you that Amaterasu simply doesn't burn fast enough to get through his cloak. If "corrosive acid" is what's needed to get through the cloak, then Amaterasu is as slow as vinegar. It's all relative. As in:

      Burning needed to get though cloak = corrosive acid

      Amaterasu = Vinegar

      Your "experience" doesn't hold weight in terms of a debate man. And "lacking empathy" is not the same as "superficial."

      It just doesn't burn fast enough to actually burn through his cloak that fast.

      I already explained that Naruto could sense the attack coming and either buff his defense or just supercharge his Tailed Beast Bomb.

      I literally already explained that I'm not neglecting the possibilities simply because I haven't seen them, and I gave you an example. But to go from "possible" to probable," you need actual facts and not your imagination to back yourself up. Otherwise you're just basically making fanfiction.

      Listen, if Sasuke had the power to use Amaterasu on the level you claim, then he would have used it against Naruto because he wanted to kill Naruto. But Sasuke knows that all his power put into one attack is dumb and that Naruto could very likely defend and leave Sasuke vulnerable because of chakra exhaustion.

      You have so little evidence of Amaterasu being fast compared to the majority of the time when it's slow, so yes. I still think Amaterasu burns slow

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    • "Going up, down, right, left, etc. But in truth he doesn't need to dodge it. He just needs to releease more chakra and defend. Because Sasuke has neither the force nor the burning capabilities to get through any defense Naruto makes."

      He won't have time to buff up his Chakra as I keep saying.

      "Also keep in mind, Danzo likely let Amaterasu just burn him since the damage would easily be undone by Izanagi. It was his crutch in that battle; he used it to dodge kunai/shuriken lol."

      Regardless, it still burned him and eventually disintegrated him. At the jogging pace. And lmaooo

      "I'm not forgetting how it burned Edo Nagato. The emaciated cripple who wasn't even in control of his own actions was able to dispel it before it burned too much. Am I supposed to be impressed by Amaterasu in that scenario?"

      Supposed to be impressed that it burned faster than you thought.

      "You didn't prove me wrong. You compared the burning needed to get through Naruto's cloak as a corrosive acid. And I'm telling you that Amaterasu simply doesn't burn fast enough to get through his cloak. If "corrosive acid" is what's needed to get through the cloak, then Amaterasu is as slow as vinegar. It's all relative. As in; Burning needed to get though cloak = corrosive acid. Amaterasu = Vinegar"

      Lool man, I'll give another scenario. This one is hopeless with you.

      "Your "experience" doesn't hold weight in terms of a debate man. And "lacking empathy" is not the same as "superficial."

      Lol yeah it does. How else would we be able to argue if we didn't experience anything we're arguing about. An my experience is golden, factual thinkers are obnoxious know it all's who lack basic understanding of human feelings. They are short sighted and super judgmental a thing that worsens my hate for them and they are also very selfish or one sided. Even though everyone is guilty or found guilty of such said things at points in time. It's more to be seen in factual thinkers. They also claim to have the most common sense not realizing that being overly opinionated and super judgmental is not the suppremety of common sense and reason. That is sublime stupidity. They fail to even comprehend the ideal definition of common sense. Superficial has a couple of definitions, and the context I'm using it in implies that superficial thinking is on the surface thinking. Being extremely opinionated lacking depth and understanding. Empathy is the complete opposite of this. In your case, you're only striking me as superficial in terms of the way you view the amaterasu.

      "It just doesn't burn fast enough to actually burn through his cloak that fast."

      I'll give another scenario.

      "I already explained that Naruto could sense the attack coming and either buff his defense or just supercharge his Tailed Beast Bomb."

      And I'm telling you and have already said that he won't have time. Citation from one of my paragraphs, "Plus if you go back to my scenario, where will he get the time to do atleast any much of that? The most he could possibly do is amplify the size of the tailed beast bomb at kuramas mouth. But getting it big enough to shield himself in time wont happen."

      "I literally already explained that I'm not neglecting the possibilities simply because I haven't seen them, and I gave you an example. But to go from "possible" to probable," you need actual facts and not your imagination to back yourself up. Otherwise you're just basically making fanfiction."

      But my examples man, and my research XDDDD

      "Listen, if Sasuke had the power to use Amaterasu on the level you claim, then he would have used it against Naruto because he wanted to kill Naruto. But Sasuke knows that all his power put into one attack is dumb and that Naruto could very likely defend and leave Sasuke vulnerable because of chakra exhaustion."

      He'd be using a great extent of his own power not all of it. Just like how Naruto could supercharge a tailed beast bomb and do it again.

      "You have so little evidence of Amaterasu being fast compared to the majority of the time when it's slow, so yes. I still think Amaterasu burns slow"

      Your only evidence is madara's armor and the samurai. I gave you more than that.

      In any event here's my other scenario. Instead of pulling chakra from all the tailed beasts and using his teched up susanoo. Sasuke summons the gedo statue.

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    • You claim he won't have time. You have nothing to go off of. Naruto is a sensor of the highest degree, and Sasuke needs to actually build his chakra to make any attack like that work. And Naruto would sense and react accordingly.

      It burned him because he let it, so it's not really a feat. If Danzo was jogging, you realize he's not moving at the full speed of Ninja right? That means Amaterasu still burns slow compared to Shinobi.

      It didn't burn very fast at all. Nagato was mindless and crippled, yet the flames didn't actually burn him all the way through. Pretty slow tbh.

      No, your experience has no weight in a debate, facts do. Empathy has no reason to be here either.

      For example, it could be my experience that I never got the flu even with no shot. That doesn't mean shots are ineffective or that they're placebo. To actually have certainty in something, you need a repeatable experiment.

      Empathy is the ability to understand someone else's feelings. Your feelings don't hold weight in a debate.

      Factual thinkers are short sighted? Lol alright, if you say so.

      And now I'm selfish too. Hm, it seems like this paragraph was made to insult me, but it's okay. I'm not so emotional that it'll hurt me.

      Facts are not surface level, so they're not superficial. Facts just are. Facts are what's true, whether it be a deep truth or a shallow truth. Imagination is very important; I'm an artist and it's very valuable. But your original point of the discussion, attempting to call out a plot hole, is not something rooted in just imagination. It's you thinking that something else should have happened there based on the series. So of course, when the facts are against you, people will tell you.

      Factual thinkers lack depth and understanding? That's like saying a doctor lacks depth and understanding in the medical field because they only have think of the facts.

      Empathy doesn't mean "deep thinker" or "less opinionated." You realize empathy is actually more base in opinion? It's right-brained, it's subjective. Subjectivity, opinion, and empathy all fall under the same right-brained style of thinking. That's not to say the right-brain isn't important or less important than any others; I actually use more of my right brain than left (based on tests I had to do for class and job interviews). But opinions will always hold less value than facts in a debate.

      I'm superficial in terms of Amaterasu? Bold claim. But you're giving it abilities (Sasuke, rather) that it doesn't have. Seems kinda surface-level to me.

      You claim Naruto won't have time to buff his defense but again, you have nothing to go off of. No evidence that the best sensor in the world won't notice Sasuke is coalescing the majority of his chakra into a massive technique.

      Even if Sasuke used all his chakra to try to burn through Naruto's, Naruto would be the one with chakra left to spare.

      My only evidence?

      Madara and his armour.

      Samurai and their armour.

      Obito with Kamui.

      Cripple Nagato with Deva Path.

      Sasuke with his substitution.

      Naruto with his V1 cloak.

      Ten Tails with its shedding ability (this one being empowered with a very high calibre Wind Release).

      "Only evidence" indeed.

      How sure are you that Sasuke can summon the Gedo satue? Currently the Gedo statue is in an alternate dimension sealed up with Kaguya. Even transferring the Kage through to one of Kaguya's dimensions is taxing for Sasuke. How certain are you that he can summon such a massive force through dimensions?

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    • "No, your experience has no weight in a debate, facts do. Empathy has no reason to be here either."

      This is a totally different subject dude off of our debate. Lol and seriously? After saying this, "How exactly am I a "facts machine"? I'm not creating facts. I show you evidence from the Manga and tell you how I drew my conclusions. I'm not creating facts."

      "Empathy is the ability to understand someone else's feelings. Your feelings don't hold weight in a debate."

      I understood your juubito point. You don't accept at all, any of my theories with amaterasu. How change in form worsens its effects. My examples and research.

      "Factual thinkers are short sighted? Lol alright, if you say so. And now I'm selfish too. Hm, it seems like this paragraph was made to insult me, but it's okay. I'm not so emotional that it'll hurt me."

      Nah bruh. I have nothing against you. Tbh. I just have a lot of experiences of being overly criticized. My hate is directed at that. Factual thinkers are assholes man (not particularly you) and short sighted in terms of judging. Not achieving goals or anything like that.

      "Facts are not surface level, so they're not superficial. Facts just are. Facts are what's true, whether it be a deep truth or a shallow truth. Imagination is very important; I'm an artist and it's very valuable. But your original point of the discussion, attempting to call out a plot hole, is not something rooted in just imagination. It's you thinking that something else should have happened there based on the series. So of course, when the facts are against you, people will tell you."

      And most times what they consider "facts" aren't even facts, just their lousy, downright nonsensical, poorly conceived, lacking accuracy and depth for the matter, opinion.

      "Factual thinkers lack depth and understanding? That's like saying a doctor lacks depth and understanding in the medical field because they only have think of the facts."

      And you are thinking about it professionally, I mean it on like a social or interpersonal level. They're just too judgemental and are assholes. Blackholes as I like to call them. And doctors would apply my concept. Facts are supplementers to their imagination, deep thought or considerateness.

      "Empathy doesn't mean "deep thinker" or "less opinionated." You realize empathy is actually more base in opinion? It's right-brained, it's subjective. Subjectivity, opinion, and empathy all fall under the same right-brained style of thinking. That's not to say the right-brain isn't important or less important than any others; I actually use more of my right brain than left (based on tests I had to do for class and job interviews). But opinions will always hold less value than facts in a debate."

      If you can see both sides of a story, that is deep thinking and empathy my friend.

      "I'm superficial in terms of Amaterasu? Bold claim. But you're giving it abilities (Sasuke, rather) that it doesn't have. Seems kinda surface-level to me."

      And you thinking that is surface level. You're neglecting all my points, arguments and research. The biggest one being the fact that sasuke is/has the other half of Hagoromo's chakra. And change in chakra form. I considered your points. Him buffing up his Chakra and what not. Reason why I said only a hind leg and the stomach portion would be left etc. But you neglect all my points and still believe that amaterasu can't be used like that.

      "You claim Naruto won't have time to buff his defense but again, you have nothing to go off of. No evidence that the best sensor in the world won't notice Sasuke is coalescing the majority of his chakra into a massive technique."

      My evidence is obviousness. If it's large scale and wide spread even with his sensing abilities how would he dodge it? This is not madara's light fang. And if he just blocks it as you say this would occur, "And as I admitted. Only the stomach portion (below the breasts) and a single hind leg would be left."

      "Even if Sasuke used all his chakra to try to burn through Naruto's, Naruto would be the one with chakra left to spare."

      He will not be using all his chakra. The attack would be similar to 4tails cloak tailed beast laser bomb (or what ever. It looked like a laser when it was shot out) vs Orochimaru's (hashirama's really) 5 layer rashomon. Brief put powerful. Mainly referring to the effect the bomb had, as it hit the rashomon.

      "Obito with Kamui."

      Imagine if Obito didn't have kamui. And apply my research to that scene.

      "Cripple Nagato with Deva Path."

      This is my evidence. And so what if he's crippled and mindless? He'd be just like Obito if he didn't have kamui. Without his absorption technique he'd eventually be disintegrated.

      "Ten Tails with its shedding ability (this one being empowered with a very high calibre Wind Release)." 'Only evidence' indeed.

      That shit got disintegrated and you know it. I'm pretty sure that shed flesh was eventually burned. Just like naruto's shed cloak.

      "How sure are you that Sasuke can summon the Gedo satue? Currently the Gedo statue is in an alternate dimension sealed up with Kaguya. Even transferring the Kage through to one of Kaguya's dimensions is taxing for Sasuke. How certain are you that he can summon such a massive force through dimensions?"

      • "IMAGINEEEE"* if it did happen, and this is the short sight in terms of judging I'm talking about, sadly you unconsciously displayed it. Because you are seriously making it sound as though if it did happen it would be problems for Naruto. I understand what you are saying, but just imagine so we could debate further. Cause remember I have to prove to you that their are ways that sasuke can beat Naruto. And taxing enough for him to be able to fight like that after?
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    • My comment stands, I'm not a facts machine. I'm reminding you of events in the manga and showing how they don't support your scenario.

      The evidence from the series doesn't support your theories.

      Factual thinkers are a**holes? That's a broad and grossly over-generalizing statement.

      Your technique is poorly conceived because you ignore Sasuke's chakra restrictions, Naruto's ridiculous advantage in chakra and stamina, and the properties of Amaterasu.

      Seeing both sides of a story doesn't mean you agree with both sides. For example, if a girl cheated on her girlfriend, that's bad. But maybe on the girl's side of the story, the boyfriend doesn't give her attention and is generally condescending to her. That's also bad. You can have empathy for the girl, but cheating is still wrong.

      And again, since you didn't actually address the statement, "Empathy" doesn't mean "deep thinker" or "less opinionated."

      I haven't neglected all your points, I've been responding to them. It doesn't matter that Sasuke has half of Hagormo's chakra, because Naruto has the same boost. Change in chakra form didn't help much against the Ten Tails.

      You didn't actually consider my points. You took my points and said "yes, I see these points" but then said Naruto wouldn't have time to buff his chakra, with zero evidence to back it up. You have absolutely no indication that Naruto, one of if not the fastest Shinobi in the series, who's also the absolute best sensor in the series, wouldn't be able to defend. Toad SM, which is way inferior to SPSM, let him dodge and react to the Third Raikage.

      Amaterasu builds up chakra in the eye to the point where Juubito said that his attack was useless since he could sense it coming. How is Naruto not going to sense an even more massive build up of chakra and react in time?

      "obviousness" is not evidence. People thought it was obvious that Naruto's skin glowed in his new form from Hagoromo when the chapter debuted. People thought it was obvious that Sasuke's new eye was red when it came out. Both were wrong.

      You're right, it's not Madara's lightfang. Madara's light fang is faster and actually difficult to see coming and dodge.

      He blocks the attack and continues supplying chakra to his defense as necessary, not that hard.

      If Sasuke doesn't use all his chakra, he won't get close to burning through all of Naruto's chakra. And the attack wouldn't have the same effect as the Tailed Beast Bomb because Sasuke doesn't have the chakra to make a beam similar to that powerful enough to burn all the way through Kurama's Avatar.

      Also I though you said the technique would be widespread? How is it a laserbeam and widespread at the same time?

      Doesn't matter if Obito had Kamui or not. What matters is that he had enough time to react and deal with it before it damaged him too much. Even if he had no way out, this scenario is one of many that proves Amaterasu can be escaped in terms of reaction speed.

      Also if Obito didn't have Kamui, he'd use Izanagi.

      Crippled and not in control of his mind matters because even in this much slower state, he dispelled Amaterasu before much damage occured.

      And like you said, without Rinnegan he'd eventually burn away

      Yes, the portion of the Ten Tails that got hit was burning. Glad you saw that too. But even with the insane cutting power and force of Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken powering Amaterasu, it couldn't even damage much of it or go through it.

      So essentially, you're worried about what happens after your made-up scenarios, whereas I'm more concerned with if your scenarios would even be able to work in the first place. You keep calling me short sighted, but you're just asking me what would happen in a scenario whereas I'm telling you that the foundation of the scenario itself is flawed and wouldn't happen. Sorry you consider that short sighted, but it's not.

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    • "The evidence from the series doesn't support your theories."

      It does. You just want to remain blind to it and not accept it.

      "Factual thinkers are a**holes? That's a broad and grossly over-generalizing statement."

      They are a narcissistic lot

      "Your technique is poorly conceived because you ignore Sasuke's chakra restrictions, Naruto's ridiculous advantage in chakra and stamina, and the properties of Amaterasu."

      Sigh man

      "Seeing both sides of a story doesn't mean you agree with both sides. For example, if a girl cheated on her girlfriend, that's bad. But maybe on the girl's side of the story, the boyfriend doesn't give her attention and is generally condescending to her. That's also bad. You can have empathy for the girl, but cheating is still wrong."

      Exactly, empathizing

      "And again, since you didn't actually address the statement, "Empathy" doesn't mean "deep thinker" or "less opinionated."

      But those are qualities of being empathetic. If I see you being bad at a certain skill, I have enough empathy, deep thought and understanding to know that, you can get better with practice. And not just be opinionated and superficial and see it as a fact that you would never get any better at what you're trying to do.

      "I haven't neglected all your points, I've been responding to them. It doesn't matter that Sasuke has half of Hagormo's chakra, because Naruto has the same boost. Change in chakra form didn't help much against the Ten Tails."

      Again you neglect my point, "If both of them are equal in power but not chakra or stamina and the other is getting ready to fire an attack with a great extent of his own power briefly. While the other is only using a small fragment of his own power (the tailed beast bomb at the mouth) in a condition or situation where he doesn't have the time to buff up his Chakra (to match the extent of power that is going to be released by his foe). Who do you think reigns victorious in this scenario? One is exerting more power than the other in that scenario. Rendering them momentarily unequal in that scenario, as equals. As I will say again. If the susanoo were hit by an undisrupted attack by a tailed beast bomb it would be shattered. Just like how there would be an effect on naruto's kurama avatar in this portrayed scenario." see how your facts are just putting us in an infinite loop. This is for your last sentence,"Sasuke's flame control sword cut a ten tails body wall in half (made by some of its body creations). I'm saying this to say that change in chakra form worsens or amplifies the effects of the amaterasu (or any jutsu for the matter) So the jutsu I invented for sasuke, that applies change in chakra form would work. Sasuke's flames also burned quickly through shins metal knives or tools that hit Sakura. And also look at how intensely sasuke's amaterasu hit juubito's spinning black rod. Imagine it now being fired the way I described. Dude the jutsu can work. Deeper insight makes you see things that you wouldn't really see. Regarding things that you have already seen but managing to see other things because of what you saw. Hence with you believing that sasuke can't put the necessary force behind the attack I invented for him, disregarding the significant power boost he got. Only going by what you saw. With how amaterasu burns (which you are totally wrong with) and the amount of force he has put behind any attack with amaterasu. With the power he has he should be able to do it."

      "You didn't actually consider my points. You took my points and said "yes, I see these points" but then said Naruto wouldn't have time to buff his chakra, with zero evidence to back it up. You have absolutely no indication that Naruto, one of if not the fastest Shinobi in the series, who's also the absolute best sensor in the series, wouldn't be able to defend. Toad SM, which is way inferior to SPSM, let him dodge and react to the Third Raikage."

      That's considering it, then showing you where it's not accurate. And as I will ask again. How exactly would he dodge it? In tailed beast state heading directly towards an attack he wouldn't be expecting. And unlike madara's light fang it's wide spread and large scale (an almighty push of black flames). And even if he senses amaterasu coming. Which doesn't really make sense in a scenario where he would see it spam on sasukes CBS hand. He would think that sasuke is going to use an amaterasu style lightning blade. I'll go again. In the scenario, used from the actual fight, Sasuke darts first (I watched it again) then Naruto jumps. Instead of spamming the lightning blade he spams black flames over his susanoo hand. Camera goes on naruto approaching. Camera shot moves back to Sasuke approaching. As soon as Sasuke feels he's in range, he fires it. Tell me. With Naruto thinking that sasuke is about to use a black flame lightning blade and is not going to use a large scale attack, How would he dodge? Where is the time present to him to buff up his Chakra? Where is his time to block? Where is his time to amplify the tailed beast bomb? Please tell me. You can't. Disintegration happens. Stomach portion hind legs. Naruto drops chakra, sasuke moves in and kills Naruto.

      "Amaterasu builds up chakra in the eye to the point where Juubito said that his attack was useless since he could sense it coming. How is Naruto not going to sense an even more massive build up of chakra and react in time?"

      He spams the flames on his complete body susanoo left hand. Please see response above^ And I'm pretty sure that he said he could have seen sasuke infusing chakra in his left eye. Because everyone could have literally seen sasuke (the viewers including you) going to use amaterasu with his left eye as he shut his right eye and ran toward juubito with Naruto. It was a diversion tactic.

      "obviousness" is not evidence. People thought it was obvious that Naruto's skin glowed in his new form from Hagoromo when the chapter debuted. People thought it was obvious that Sasuke's new eye was red when it came out. Both were wrong."

      Obviousness is evidence in this scenario. Those are totally different stories. Please see my response above^^

      "You're right, it's not Madara's lightfang. Madara's light fang is faster and actually difficult to see coming and dodge."

      Yep, just like my scenario.

      "If Sasuke doesn't use all his chakra, he won't get close to burning through all of Naruto's chakra. And the attack wouldn't have the same effect as the Tailed Beast Bomb because Sasuke doesn't have the chakra to make a beam similar to that powerful enough to burn all the way through Kurama's Avatar. Also I though you said the technique would be widespread? How is it a laserbeam and widespread at the same time?"

      If sasuke uses a great extent of his own chakra but not all. The force behind it would disintegrate naruto's kyuubi chakra avatar (Not all of it. Stomach portion. Hind leg). Considering all my examples and research. Go and watch the attack. Yeah it was shot out something like a laser beam at first but changed as it went. But sasuke's attack would be more like the effect the bomb had, as it hit the rashomon. If only I knew how to attach pictures. Go watch it and see what I mean. If you care that is. 4 tails vs Orochimaru.

      "Also if Obito didn't have Kamui, he'd use Izanagi."

      And if he had neither of those he'd be burned as I said.

      "Crippled and not in control of his mind matters because even in this much slower state, he dispelled Amaterasu before much damage occurred. And like you said, without Rinnegan he'd eventually burn away."

      You're talking as if physical application was needed for that. All he had to do was will the rinnegan to do it. And his mind was being controlled to obey a specific will. He had no control but still had control being will oriented (meaning he had no control over not wanting to harm Naruto and company. But he had control over what jutsu to pull off or what decisions to make under a certain will or instruction). And even if he didn't have control, it's like your saying that if you were walking with you're grandparent and they were about to fall. You wouldn't catch them swiftly. Kabuto reacted swiftly. It still burned a good portion of him before he did that though (absorb the black flames). Amaterasu is not as slow as you claim. You just underestimate it.

      "Yes, the portion of the Ten Tails that got hit was burning. Glad you saw that too. But even with the insane cutting power and force of Ultra Big Ball Rasenshuriken powering Amaterasu, it couldn't even damage much of it or go through it."

      The thing got disintegrated, we only saw effects of the amaterasu.

      "So essentially, you're worried about what happens after your made-up scenarios, whereas I'm more concerned with if your scenarios would even be able to work in the first place. You keep calling me short sighted, but you're just asking me what would happen in a scenario whereas I'm telling you that the foundation of the scenario itself is flawed and wouldn't happen. Sorry you consider that short sighted, but it's not."

      So Naruto would be in trouble vs Sasuke and the gedo mazo? because of how hesitant you are to answer. I finnaly caught you! I never called you short sighted. You just happened to display it and I caught glimpse of it. This is calling you short sighted,"You're so short sighted. With all the examples I gave you. Shins weapons, sasuke's fireball, how it burned at a jogging pace but still eventually disintegrated it. Sasuke's flame control sword vs the body creations wall and how intense the amaterasu hit juubito's spinning black rod and how change in chakra form would worsen it considering these examples. Half of Hagoromo's chakra etc. You still believe amaterasu can't be pulled off like that? And would be deadly vs naruto's kurama avatar in that scenario?"

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    • No, you aren't accepting evidence to the contrary of your imagination.

      Again, broad, over-generalizing, and just wrong.

      Empathizing doesn't mean I agree with you. Just because you see two sides, doesn't mean I have to agree, yet somehow you're getting worked up about "factual thinkers" because I don't agree with you.

      "And not just be opinionated and superficial and see it as a fact that you would never get any better at what you're trying to do."

      This is your example? That's literally an opinion and not fact-based at all. Fact based would be knowing if someone's technique at say, violin wasn't very good. But saying they'd never get better isn't a fact-based thing like you're claiming. Being opinionated isn't a bad thing, you just gotta remember to keep them separate from facts.

      For example, it's my opinion that rock music is better than country music. But that doesn't make rock music objectively better, and I know that. The only real thing you can objectively judge about both is the technical skill displayed.

      I already addressed this point. As Sasuke gathers his chakra to the point where it'd be anywhere powerful enough to be dangerous, Naruto senses it and responds. You say he's in a position where he doesn't have time to respond, but why is that? He's physically faster than Sasuke and has sensing and predictive abilities far above the Sharingan. He already reacted to Sasuke trying to use it as a surprise attack, not as a built up attack. And guess what happened? Naruto blocked it, without even using Sage Mode.

      "My facts" They're not mine lol. I don't own facts. They're just pieces of evidence from the series.

      Flame Control, no matter what the form, has less piercing properties than Lightning Release. That's why Sasuke's strongest attack was Indra's Arrow, not some beam of Amaterasu.

      What you're calling "deeper insight" isn't deeper insight. It's called grasping at straws.

      You're not seeing new things based on things you've already seen. You're seeing things that wouldn't make sense in the context of the series but would look cool.

      Sasuke can't put the necessary force behind the attack, because that's how the story depicts Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto is the brute force and raw power, Sasuke is the cunning and tactical fighter. They're not suddenly going to beat each other at their own game.

      I'm not totally wrong about Amaterasu (it's interesting how you're so annoyed by factual thinkers, yet you keep claiming your opinion as fact).

      How did Naruto avoid the 4th Raikage? he was faster. How did Naruto avoid the Third Raikage? He sensed him. How did Naruto avoid Naruto's Limbo Clone? He sensed him coming. And Naruto can't see Limbo Clones, so you know he wasn't expecting it, but he dodged it anyways. So yeah, Naruto would sense the build up of chakra and react accordingly.

      It doesn't matter if he sees it spam on Sasuke's hand, he can still sense chakra. This guy landed in Konoha and could tell out of everyone in the village, Kakashi was not there. His senses are that refined in Toad Sage Mode. He's going to sense a massive surge of chakra that's right in front of him.

      Again, his sensing allows him predictive capabilities. He senses what Sasuke is doing with his chakra, so of course he'd beef up his chakra Avatar prior.

      You literally can't tell me how Sasuke fires a technique with more force than he ever showed, even against true threats like Kaguya or Momshiki or Kinshiki or even Jigen. You literally can't, but somehow I'm wrong for pointing out that Sasuke doesn't have that firepower.

      No, Juubito said he sensed Sasuke amassing chakra in his left eye. Even Nagato could sense when Itachi was going to use Amaterasu. And that was a small attack. Naruto could sense a bigger attack. And no, the view can't see Sasuke doing that because there's no panel of it. Sasuke literally just attacked out of nowhere. Didn't even run at Juubito at that point. This attack was before Naruto and Sasuke combined attacks.

      No, no matter how much you want it to be, "obviousness" is not evidence.

      No, your scenario is Sasuke builds up way more chakra to do a large scale attack that has less piercing capabilities than Light Fang. So no, not like your scenario.

      Where do you think this force comes from? It comes from his chakra lol, are you serious? He just doesn't have the chakra necessary to blast through Naruto's defenses. Naruto can take hits from something that sliced the moon in half, without Kurama's Avatar, and with a lot of Kurama's chakra fighting independently from himself.

      Sasuke doesn't have the force necessary to send an attack like that that'll have that effect like that on Naruto.

      Dude. No duh Obito would be burned. That's not the point at all. The point is, as Shinobi, Amaterasu does not burn too fast for them to react and apply whatever abilities they have to escape. If they don't have what it takes to escape? Yes, they die. Or cut off the affected limb. But every Shinobi of note has been able to sufficently react to amaterasu even if the burning began on their person, like their clothes.

      His mind was being controlled by Kabuto, who at the same time was managing literally every other Edo Tensei. And Kabuto is nowhere near as fast or formidable with the Rinnegan as nagato is, so that's why that's a factor. Amaterasu burned like an arm and a leg while Nagato just fell and lied there for a sec. If Nagato was in fontrol, he'd be done dispelling the flames before he hit the ground.

      No, the Ten Tails very clearly did not get disintegrated.

      You literally are avoiding my question, what are you on about? If Sasuke can't summon the Gedo statue, it doesn't matter.

      You said I displayed short sightedness, so that's calling me short sighted. You also called me a "factual thinker" and then described all factual thinker as "short sighted" among some other oddly insulting things. I mean, I don't mind you insulting me so it doesn't matter much to me, but just because you're being indirect about it doesn't mean you aren't insulting.

      Shin's weapons. Those little pieces of metal. You're using those as a feat. Lol okay.
      

      Sasuke reacted to the fireball getting burned, so my point still stands.

      Jogging pace is incredibly slow to Shinobi.

      Again, it didn't display much force against the Ten Tails or its little body creations.

      Uh, it didn't get through Juubito's rod so idk why that's an example you're using.

      you keep bringing up Hagoromo's chakra and idk why. Let's say Sasuke is a 5 in terms of power and chakra ad Naruto is a 10. The both receive the same power up of "10" from Hagoromo. Now, Sasuke is a 15, but Naruto is now a 20. Naruto still has more in his reserves than Sasuke.

      Yes, amaterasu cannot be pulled off like that in my opinion, and whatever Sasuke attempted in the same vein as your technique would fail because Sasuke's lesser firepower compared to Naruto's defenses, Naruto's sensing, and the slow burning rate of Amaterasu.

      To answer your question about the Gedo (that wouldn't be summoned, but for some reason you think that me telling you your scenrarios make no sense means I don't have an argument), no, Naruto wouldn't have trouble with Gedo. considering her overpowered it with SM and just a little bit of Kurama's chakra when he was in close range to it and stabbed with a black receiver. But again, Gedo is a nonfactor unless you gimme some evidence that Sasuke can summon it out od Kaguya's dimension and still be alright to fight.

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    • "No, you aren't accepting evidence to the contrary of your imagination."

      Similar to you, with how you so stubbornly stick to amaterasu being a slower burner being almost intentionally blind to all the examples and research presented to you. And that if the amaterasu was shot out in a certain way it would burn more intensely and be stronger and be more destructive. My lit match vs flamethrower analogy. My taking a breath (to breathe or to blow) vs a jumbo jet thruster or rocket thruster. Sasuke's fireball. Itachi vs the mizukage. Sasuke's amaterasu vs Obito's spinning black rod. Here's what my imagination is devising for me again. Even though the amaterasu when shot out in a basic way and on contact burns at a jogging pace it still hits its target intensely. Pool together all of our examples (yours and mine) it is utterly undeniable that in each an every case that the amaterasu is fired it hits intensely. Using that as a reference. Imagine now the amaterasu being fired out in the way I described? It's like throwing a stone vs shooting a bullet. Hurricane winds vs large building structures and you know exactly how that goes. The susanoo is basically a visual representation of the extent and capacity of sasuke's chakra. With it being as big as naruto's kurama avatar. Sasuke in his CBS (especially) does have the power to put the necessary force behind the attack I devised for him. You underestimate sasuke and the amaterasu. Alright. Naruto contained momoshiki's stolen tailed beast bomb. Only to an extent where the arena and a little bit of the surrounding area around it, was destroyed. But his kurama chakra still got disintegrated. I'm pretty sure that when momoshiki and kinshiki sought Naruto out. He wasn't in six paths Sage mode anymore. The amaterasu being shot in the fashion I described will have the same effect of a tailed beast bomb exploding. The only difference is that it wouldn't be shot to a specific location and explode at and epicenter. It's execution would be straight forward, wide spread and large scale but ferocious. (a straightforward tailed beast bomb explosion of Amaterasu black flames. An almighty push of black flames) Your stubbornness in neglecting such obviousness is out of you, just not wanting to be defeated by me.

      Tbh. I had replies to almost all of your points. But a fair way in typing, My phone acted up and did some shit and I got SOOOOOOOOOOO FRUSTRATED! That my mind just instantly detached from this thread. Fuck bruh. That irritated me beyond the limit I could be irritated, sigh. I reached just about here,

      "His mind was being controlled by Kabuto, who at the same time was managing literally every other Edo Tensei. And Kabuto is nowhere near as fast or formidable with the Rinnegan as nagato is, so that's why that's a factor. Amaterasu burned like an arm and a leg while Nagato just fell and lied there for a sec. If Nagato was in fontrol, he'd be done dispelling the flames before he hit the ground."

      But then this trash phone fucked me up. Sigh man. To go back through all that after so much typing. No. Fuck no.

      And I'm so glad that I found this:

      "Keep in mind though, a couple explanations for your points can be explained;

      Sasuke's fireball jutsu when he is as powerful as he is empowered by 6 paths power may very well be more powerful than 5 Bijuu bombs in terms of forward force (especially since the fireball has less surface area).

      In terms of Shunshining out of the way, I've seen Naruto block attacks as many times as Shunshining away. In fact, he blocked Ay several times before finally dodging instead.

      And while many of Naruto's feats have been ignored, Sasuke's have been too. If Sasuke's Chidori has proven penetrating enough to bisect Juubi Madara, how did Naruto tank Sasuke's Chidori in VOTE?

      If Sasuke can simply teleport subjects and weapons into each other, why not do that with Naruto?

      If Sasuke has the Genjutsu capabilities to simultaneously put 9 Tailed Beasts into Genjutsu with a glance, why didn't Sasuke do that as soon as Naruto went Kurama mode?

      If Sasuke can sense Naruto across dimensions, how did he not sense Naruto's clone gathering massive amounts of Nature Energy for Naruto?

      They both have their inconsistencies in their showings. Point is, the story and characters have constantly noted them to be equal, with only Naruto's unyielding resolve and motivation winning him the fight (from a story standpoint)."

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