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    • What's stopping it from sealing the juubi?
    • If it can't seal the juubi, then what is it speculative limit?
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    • Nothing hints it can, whilst nothing hints it can't

      Itachi has sealed chakra tanks already, Nagato who most certainly has bijju level chakra was sealed with no problem. I would say it can seal bijju's and probably juubi jinchuriki's.

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    • I'd say at most it could get Bijuu levels. Keep in mind that Naruto couldn't even sense a limit to the Juubi in terms of chakra. I don't think that urn can store essentially limitless chakra.

      Just speculation though of course

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    • It's not the chakra that is to be sealed, it's the physical body.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: It's not the chakra that is to be sealed, it's the physical body.

      Which includes the chakra

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    • Duh. My statement stands

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Duh. My statement stands

      No, not really. Your statement implies that the sealing process doesn't take in account of the target's chakra reserve, which is not true.

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    • Nothing implies that it does, you can always prove me wrong

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Nothing implies that it does, you can always prove me wrong

      But... nothing implies that it doesn't?

      Lol it seals the victim. That's the description we got. It doesn't say "seal the user away from their chakra." Why would you assume that? Pretty much every time we have a technique sealing a victim, it's sealing their chakra too because usually the chakra is a part of the victim lol.

      Besides, the victim is trapped in a Genjutsu world of drunken dreams. Can't be under Genjutsu without chakra.

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    • So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.The body is container of the chakra, the blade seals the body by liquefying it [1]. Also i'd like to point out that the juubi having infinite chakra is also BS, Kaguya was stated by Six Paths Naruto to have more chakra than the juubi, what's more than infinite? infinite²? lmao.

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    • Naruto said he couldn't sense the limit of the chakra, this was before SPSM, as an SPSM his sensory abilities are even better. SoT can seal the Juubi as there is literally nothing stating it can't or that it has a limit and to add one is speculation alone.

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    • If it seals only phisical things it can't seal the juubi

      It will extract and seal the gedo mazo and the tree from it but the chakra will remain there so the bunny thing won't get sealed

      Or if we take the WA Juubi the tailed beast will be separate and they can't get sealed

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.The body is container of the chakra, the blade seals the body by liquefying it [1]. Also i'd like to point out that the juubi having infinite chakra is also BS, Kaguya was stated by Six Paths Naruto to have more chakra than the juubi, what's more than infinite? infinite²? lmao.

      How is saying the SoT can't seal something that has infinite chakra bull? It's fairly reasonable to assume that the gourd has a maximum capacity, unless otherwise stated. What happens to the body is completely irrelevant as its chakra is still be sealed. No one said that the Juubi is infinite. Talk about being disingenuous.

      FlatZone wrote: SoT can seal the Juubi as there is literally nothing stating it can't or that it has a limit and to add one is speculation alone.

      What are you even saying? Merely stating that the SoT can seal the Juubi is speculation alone. You can apply this poor logic to nearly everything.

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    • It's all speculation. But why anyone would assume that a regular Shinobi had the capacity to seal something like the Juubi is beyond me.

      I mean, the container obviously limits it in how much chakra can be sealed in it. That's why Minato couldn't seal Kurama into Naruto as a baby.

      I said Naruto couldn't sense a limit btw, I didn't say infinite. When I said "essentially limitless" I was saying that since the world's most potent sensor couldn't sense its limit, the Juubi had essentially unlimited chakra when comparing to regular Shinobi.

      Idk, just doesn't make sense to assume the gourd has infinite capacity. Kishi pretty much always adds limits to jutsu, and even Itachi states that every jutsu has a weakness.

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    • SoT is not simply a jutsu, it is a legendary artifact like item that's corporeal in origin. The only thing stated to have a limit chakra wise was the Shikigami when sealing the 9 tails. Also it is PURELY speculation to say SoT couldn't seal the 10 Tails, it was never once said to have a limit like that unlike the Shikigami.

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    • @FlatZone

      And it is PURELY speculation to say that SoT can seal the 10 tails. Just because things aren't outright stated, that doesn't mean the limits don't exist lmao. It would be like me assuming that Obito could use Kamui on the entire Sun if no limit on Kamui was made apparent. In situations where there is no explicit answer given to us by Kishimoto, some logic should be applied.

      Do you really think that ALL of the Juubi's chakra as well as its physical form can be stored inside ToS? Do you think this despite some previous chakra limit examples being mentioned, like the Shinigami's limit? Just like ToS, Shinigami is obviously not some average Shinobi technique, its a spirit whose name literally translates into "Death God".

      And I'm not using this as definitive evidence to suggest that ToS can't store the entire Juubi, but you referred to the ToS being "legendary" as if that justifies it sucking in the Juubi. If a spectral deity was shown to have a limit on chakra sealing, then why would a corporeal weapon not have a limit?

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    • Dude, I don't care for your speculation. There is literally nothing stating ToS could not seal the Juubi, you don't like it and don't believe so well that's cool buddy but that's you. Until something comes out and gives that sort of limitation to the SoT then it doesn't have that limitation. Prove it wrong and that would change.. but you can't so it won't change. SoT can seal the Juubi until stated otherwis.

      Also your Kamui example is poor, because it was clearly shown that the larger the thing they want to warp, the more chakra it would need to be warped and it was pointed out multiple times.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Dude, I don't care for your speculation. There is literally nothing stating ToS could not seal the Juubi, you don't like it and don't believe so well that's cool buddy but that's you.

      Cognitive dissonance at it's finest

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    • SoT can seal Juubi, bud. :)

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    • @Flazone how can you say "I don't care for your speculation" but at the same time say the SoT can definitively seal the Juubi? Self-awareness lol.

      But anyways you can't say "nothing says this isn't the case so it must be true." Arguments don't work that way. Otherwise,

      Kakashi knows Izanagi and Izanami, and constantly holds back against literally any opponent because he's fast enough with Kamui to just warp someone's head off considering he can warp TBM Naruto faster than a Sharingan can track. After all, no one said otherwise.

      Kakashi can open as many gates as he wants to since no one said he couldn't and he already opened one.

      (This one's a fun one cus I know you don't believe this one) Naruto and Sasuke still have Hagoromo's chakra since, ya know, no one said otherwise.

      Also your argument about sealing the Nine Tails is factually wrong. Minato specifically couldn't seal all of Kurama into Naruto since Naruto was too small of a container, and so sealed half of Kurama into himself. The limit was the container (Naruto).

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    • Squinty97 wrote: @Flazone how can you say "I don't care for your speculation" but at the same time say the SoT can definitively seal the Juubi? Self-awareness lol.

      But anyways you can't say "nothing says this isn't the case so it must be true." Arguments don't work that way. Otherwise,

      Kakashi knows Izanagi and Izanami, and constantly holds back against literally any opponent because he's fast enough with Kamui to just warp someone's head off considering he can warp TBM Naruto faster than a Sharingan can track. After all, no one said otherwise.

      Kakashi can open as many gates as he wants to since no one said he couldn't and he already opened one.

      (This one's a fun one cus I know you don't believe this one) Naruto and Sasuke still have Hagoromo's chakra since, ya know, no one said otherwise.

      Also your argument about sealing the Nine Tails is factually wrong. Minato specifically couldn't seal all of Kurama into Naruto since Naruto was too small of a container, and so sealed half of Kurama into himself. The limit was the container (Naruto).

      Your last bit just supported my argument lol You people are weird. You keep saying it CAN'T just because you don't want it to, then get mad when somebody says it can.. and again "Also your argument about sealing the Nine Tails is factually wrong. Minato specifically couldn't seal all of Kurama into Naruto since Naruto was too small of a container, and so sealed half of Kurama into himself. The limit was the container (Naruto)." this supports my end of the argument evern more.

      WTH is wrong with you people.

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    • ... No it didn't?

      Your argument was that the Shikigami tech was shown to have a limit. That's false. The Shikigami tech was never said to have a limit, the only limiter in that scenario was Naruto as a container. Why is that relevant?

      Because your argument is saying that the tech itself limited the sealing rather than the container, which isn't true. If Naruto was bigger, Minato wouldn't even need to use the Shikigami tech because he could just seal Kurama into Naruto completely.

      Clarifying this, we know that the container is indeed a limiter when it comes to sealing things. And saying the Totsuka Blade can seal something on the scale of the embodiment of Nature Energy itself is in fact speculation.

      I'm not getting mad that you think it can seal the Juubi by the way. I'm calling out your hypocrisy in shouting "It's speculation!" When that's in fact what you're literally doing. And instead of using evidence, you say "well they never said it wasn't the case so it must be true."

      Interesting also how you ignored the other examples where your logic didn't work.

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    • SoT can seal Juubi, and doesn't matter the reasons why you think it can't. Nothing was stated nor shown ANYWHERE that it can't. It is a mythical corporeal sealing artifact and it was never shown with a limit or said to have a limit, YOU want it to have a limit by saying it can't. Until the author says it can't, it can. Argue all you like I could care less because you can't say otherwise. :)

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    • @Flatzone so you're gonna ignore actual arguments and evidence and examples showing why that logic is flawed and claim you don't care despite parroting the same argument that doesn't make sense?

      Lol it can't seal Juubi just because you want it to. Nothing said it could and nothing showed it could, so it will never have that feat, sorry. Whether or not it could is up for debate, but you just simply claiming it can do it is not evidence saying it can.

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    • lol WHAT EVIDENCE. There is no evidence it can't seal the Juubi, you just think it can't seal the Juubi and that's not evidence.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: What happens to the body is completely irrelevant as its chakra is still be sealed. No one said that the Juubi is infinite. Talk about being disingenuous.

      Both showings of the blade shows it liquefying the targets body, nothing, literally nothing about chakra from both side is stated. Drop your argument and walk away. Ya'll said it's chakra is limitless, which is the premise of you and the mod's argument.

      Squinty Wrote: But why anyone would assume that a regular Shinobi had the capacity to seal something like the Juubi is beyond me.

      Why is this hard to believe? a regular earth style shinobi restrained the juubi for some time. The juubi was completely restrained by a regular shinobi, Hashirama. And the SOT is no normal weapon. Kaguya's expansive TSB which could shatter dimensions can be evaded by a regular shinobi, Obito via Kamui.

      Idk, just doesn't make sense to assume the gourd has infinite capacity. Kishi pretty much always adds limits to jutsu, and even Itachi states that every jutsu has a weakness.

      Kamui's capability to evade attacks is infinite, he can literally slip through any attack.

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    • @FlatZone

      Do you not realise your own hypocrisy? This is a two-way road dude. You're all like "speculation this, speculation that", but the claim you are making is speculation.

      Read my Kamui example again. "It would be like me assuming that Obito could use Kamui on the entire Sun if no limit on Kamui was made apparent." It was a hypothesis in which there had been no limit made apparent for Kamui. READ before spamming "speculation". My example was to show that even if no limit is stated for a specific technique, it is absurd to propel its capabilities to astronomical levels.

      So no, SoT cannot store the entire Juubi until it shows a feat that even remotely matches that level of chakra/energy. I lowkey think that you guys just so badly want to give Itachi a feat of taking down the Juubi, which is why you're not even presenting an argument. That last sentence? That's me speculating

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    • FlatZone wrote: lol WHAT EVIDENCE. There is no evidence it can't seal the Juubi, you just think it can't seal the Juubi and that's not evidence.

      You just think it can and that's not evidence.

      That's the issue here. For some reason speculation works for you and you alone. For some reason, you can say "it's never been said that it can't happen so it must be able to happen" and that's a valid argument? It's not lol.

      This whole thread is speculating, you included.

      You ignored literally every example I gave of me using your own logic to say outlandish things about the series in order to illustrate that your line of reasoning is not sound.

      @Jason

      Lol so then since it doesn't seal chakra according to you, it can't properly seal Kurama. It'll get his flesh and blood and leave behind the chakra avatar because apparently it needs to be spelled out to you that sealing a victim into a drunken Genjutsu world implies sealing the chakra too, since being under Genjutsu requires chakra in the first place.

      Also if you read my previous post, you'll have seen my explanation on the word limitless. Sorry if it was still unclear to you.

      Restraining is different than sealing massive amounts of chakra into a smaller volume. So yeah it's hard for me to believe.

      Kamui's ability is not infinite, it has a time limit. You know, a drawback/weakness to the technique.

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    • IDGAF that the thread is speculation, I say it can store the Juubi because it was never shown or stated to have a limit. There was never any hint, never even anything to compare it to having a limit. You all say "oh It MUST have a limit like that, because I think so and you are wrong" Guess what?? no. You can "TRY" to sound intelligent here and keep commenting the same bs over and over but unlike other users on here I won't entertain your bs. SoT has no such established limit, and until it does what I wrote was completely plausible and possible, it cannot be proven wrong and unless an OP says the SoT can't absorb Juubi as stipulation then it can, and a smaller volume? Naruto was a human new born and by all means not the same as a corpoeral legendary sealing item Your argument falls flat again right there. Try somebody else with that bull, because it will never work on me.

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    • FlatZone wrote: SoT has no such established limit, and until it does what I wrote was completely plausible and possible

      Yes it is in fact possible, good job.

      The issue only arose when you say things like "Oh because nothing was said about this, this must be true." And then go on to say that because it can't be unproven, it has to be true. That's what religion is lol.

      My guy you are literally ignoring every example of your argument being utter trash. Saying that it's true because it cannot be disproven is ridiculous. I've given you examples of your logic being ridiculous and unusable, try to come with an argument and maybe your actual opinion on the matter will be treated with more merit.

      No, no one is saying "oh It MUST have a limit like that, because I think so and you are wrong" Like you're claiming. At least what I'm saying is that literally every jutsu has limit/weakness, and this is something Itachi himself believed to be true. So to believe that SoT has no limits seems stupid. Especially since there's already precedents of containers not being able to handle huge amounts of chakra.

      My argument doesn't fall short because Naruto was a newborn, because Newborn Naruto to Kyuubi is much different than SoT to the embodiment of nature energy.

      Yeah, your first statement is true. You can say whatever you want. But you're just speculating, just like literally everyone else because this is something not explained and not done in the series. This is just like you thinking Obito is a sensor or that the 4th Raikage has some V2 cloak. Just things that make the character you want to talk up cooler, but don't actually have evidence in the series beyond "no one said it wasn't true."

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Both showings of the blade shows it liquefying the targets body, nothing, literally nothing about chakra from both side is stated. Drop your argument and walk away. Ya'll said it's chakra is limitless, which is the premise of you and the mod's argument.

      The blade seals chakra as well. How do you think Sasuke no longer had access to chakra from the curse mark? Your argument has absolutely nothing to stand on. Nope, no one said thst. Stop being disingenous. Heck, I didn't even make the argument you're miscontruing. This is what Squinty said

      I don't think that urn can store essentially limitless chakra.

      That's not claiming that the Juubi's chakra is limitless or infinite. It's simply saying that the Juubi has an enormous chakra reserve.

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    • First reply is most apt. Nothing hints it can, whilst nothing hints it can't.

      The argument that normal shinobi shouldn't be able to seal Juubi doesn't work because Totsuka is not a jutsu, it is a weapon. Totsuka's capabilities doesn't scale to the person wielding it.

      It's possible that it can, but it's also possible that it can't. Anything else is just speculation.

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    • @Inertia

      That’s not the problem though. We’re not disputing a possibility of SoT not having a limit, we’re disputing it being a certainty.

      I think the whole “normal shinobi” thing was to just create a comparison between Totsuka and the Juubi. The largest thing we have seen Totsuka seal is Orochimaru, and the largest chakra being Nagato, both of whom are no where near the level of chakra/energy of the Juubi. Also, the argument that Totsuka is a “legendary” weapon, or “corporeal in origin” means nothing. That is not proof that Totsuka can suck in the Juubi, its just a very questionable line of reasoning.

      I agree with your general point though, of course.

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    • Halcyonite wrote: @Inertia

      That’s not the problem though. We’re not disputing a possibility of SoT having a limit, we’re disputing it being a certainty.

      I think the whole “normal shinobi” thing was to just create a comparison between Totsuka and the Juubi. The largest thing we have seen Totsuka seal is Orochimaru, and the largest chakra being Nagato, both of whom are no where near the level of chakra/energy of the Juubi. Also, the argument that Totsuka is a “legendary” weapon, or “corporeal in origin” means nothing. That is not proof that Totsuka can suck in the Juubi, its just a very questionable line of reasoning.

      I agree with your general point though, of course.

      I definitely would agree with Totsuka sealing Juubi not being certain. Its limits aren't known, after all.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: The blade seals chakra as well. How do you think Sasuke no longer had access to chakra from the curse mark?. Nope, no one said thst. Heck, I didn't even make the argument you're miscontruing. This is what Squinty said

      It does seal chakra AS well. It seals the body, since the chakra is in the body the chakra goes with it (duh). It doesn't directly seal chakra, but just the body. What's so hard to understand? or you don't just like to lose? You didn't have to make the argument, you following in it's trail means you agree with.

      That's not claiming that the Juubi's chakra is limitless or infinite. It's simply saying that the Juubi has an enormous chakra reserve.

      What do you think limitless means genius?


      Squinty97 wrote: Lol so then since it doesn't seal chakra according to you, it can't properly seal Kurama. It'll get his flesh and blood and leave behind the chakra avatar because apparently it needs to be spelled out to you that sealing a victim into a drunken Genjutsu world implies sealing the chakra too, since being under Genjutsu requires chakra in the first place.

      I never said the chakra is left behind lmao. You people are arguing as if the chakra is what's directly being sealed, it not, as proven twice. The blade absorbing the entire body of Nagatao and the 8 headed serpent is proof of this. The body is the container, so whatever is in it goes with it when being sealed, Kurama will go with Naruto if Naruto ever got stabbed since he's inside the container.

      Also if you read my previous post, you'll have seen my explanation on the word limitless. Sorry if it was still unclear to you.

      That doesn't prove your innocence since you were using an outdated statement made by Naruto when there is updated statements further on in a completed manga.

      Restraining is different than sealing massive amounts of chakra into a smaller volume. So yeah it's hard for me to believe.

      But a ReGuLaR shinobi did it, you would've never thought this was possible if it hadn't happen with that cast of mind you're going on with

      Kamui's ability is not infinite, it has a time limit. You know, a drawback/weakness to the technique.

      I know. I'm saying it's ability to pass through attacks is infinite, meaning there is nothing he can't slip through, similarly the blades sealing powers can also be, with it's weakness being it's huge avoidability disadvantage, the caster, other escaping ninjutsu etc. Itachi did say every jutsu has a weakness, but that doesn't mean everyone can find and defeat that weakness, take mugen tsukuyomi for example.

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    • @Jason

      It's still sealing the chakra away, it doesn't matter that it's also sealing the body lol. Like, idk why you're separating the two things.

      What do you mean, I was using Naruto's term at that point because that scales to everything else at and around SM Naruto's level, that for Shinobi at SM Naruto level, the Juubi had essentially limitless chakra. And Naruto had ridiculous reserves himself too.

      What regular Shinobi did sealed the Juubi to a smaller volume? Obito who's body was half-comprised of the very cells that specifically work against Tailed Beasts?

      Or Madara? Who had the same advantage?

      Do you understand the fundamental difference between Kamui's intangibility vs a Sealing tech? Kamui can send any bit away from him, so it makes sense that his own technique can send parts or all of himself to another dimension. It's a jutsu involving himself and just that. It's just sending parts of himself away, meaning it ignores anything else. That's why its limit has to do with time.

      The SoT isn't just dealing with itself or its user, it's dealing with the actual sealing victim. Meaning that its limit can be with what it's sealing, and considering there's literally already precedent for that it's what I believe to be true.

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    • So what if you "Believe to be true", that doesn't make it true, and it isn't evidence to shit nor is there precedence for it as there is nothing stating or hinting the SoT has a sealing limit. It's only what was shown where in the story it was used, and when was there a Juubi laying around that Itachi had to seal to prove that he couldn't? IDC that you don't agree or don't think so, so stop trying to change my mind or say I'm wrong when in reality I'm not. SoT can seal Juubi.

      Edit

      Amazing how nobody see's what I'm doing, there's a point being made.

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    • @Flatzone of course I say "I believe it to be true." Because I, unlike you, understand that since this hasn't happened in the series, none of it will be confirmed so all of our opinions are just speculation that we can argue the likelihood for and nothing else

      Again, your whole "nothing said it wasn't true so it must be true." argument is terrible and I've shown you why.

      I don't even care if you don't change your mind tbh. I'm just confounded as to why you think you're right when you literally have nothing backing you up besides "Well there's no evidence to the contrary" despite me showing you that that kind of logic doesn't work.

      It's your opinion that SoT can seal the Juubi, but that doesn't make it true. At least @Jason is backing up his stance with actual arguments. You have nothing to stand on.

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    • X29

      The sword is a deus ex machina, literally existing as a plot device. We can argue about it all day, but it's just there for plot still and its abilities, along with those of the Yata Mirror, aren't made to make sense.

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    • and you still didn't understand what I was doing. There is no ARGUMENT TO SAY IT IS OR ISN'T so if I say it is how are you going to actually prove it wrong?? You aren't. So until you prove me wrong I say it is. You'll get over it one day.

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    • No, what you were doing was spouting off your own opinion as fact without so much as an argument as to why you thought that beyond "nothing said it's not the case so it has to be true."

      What I've been doing is showing you examples as to why that logic is flawed and reminding you that no matter what you think, it won't be fact because we're all speculating. I also gave you examples of precedents of when a sealing was limited by how much chakra the container could take.

      You're giving nothing to the discussion and essentially saying "This is right because you can't prove it wrong" when what you should be saying is "Here's what I think is right, because of -insert argument-". But you're giving no argument and just proclaiming your opinion as fact even though you did nothing to prove it at all.

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    • @Squinty97 I've seen you destroy this kid on another thread. Good work. He's entitled to his opinion, but he's talking as if it can't be wrong, As if it's already a fact which can't be disproven or argued about. His arrogance is disgusting, yet somehow entertaining.

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    • Lmao you still don't get it. Oh, and for the last time I don't care about you or what you say. I'm saying SoT can seal Juubi and you can spout whatever bullshit you want, there's nothing to dispute that. Keep crying though you all are entertaining me quite well, me and my buds are having a laugh at these threads hahaha @Justaregularchild sure thing sunshine lol

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    • @Flat

      You're avoiding the argument, the problem is that you can't back up your claim that "SoT can seal the juubi" by saing "You can't demostrate that SoT can't seal it"

      It's like I say that the jutsu: Water severing wave, can split the juubi apart and you can't demostrate that it can't because that time it was used it splitted apart the shinjuu tree, and has never been blocked

      Just beacause the bronze sword didn't broke when piercing the wooden shield doesn't mean that it won't broke when it'll attack the steel one

      And just to add SoT doesn't have a 100% success rate, a snake got away from it, so we can be sure that it isn't "limiteless" (that would be the case even if the snake couldn't get away btw, but we even have an example)

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    • FlatZone wrote: Lmao you still don't get it. Oh, and for the last time I don't care about you or what you say. I'm saying SoT can seal Juubi and you can spout whatever bullshit you want, there's nothing to dispute that. Keep crying though you all are entertaining me quite well, me and my buds are having a laugh at these threads hahaha @Justaregularchild sure thing sunshine lol

      Ah so this is another case of you ignoring any opposition because you don't know how to back up your opinion. Good to know.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: It's still sealing the chakra away, it doesn't matter that it's also sealing the body lol. Like, idk why you're separating the two things.

      Backup your statement is all I can say now....since you don't get it. Prove that chakra is a deciding factor on which opponent can and cannot be sealed in relations to the totsuka blade only. Good luck since Itachi is dead and all the statements that exists rests in my favour.

      What do you mean, I was using Naruto's term at that point because that scales to everything else at and around SM Naruto's level, that for Shinobi at SM Naruto level, the Juubi had essentially limitless chakra. And Naruto had ridiculous reserves himself too.

      But the juubi doesn't have limitless chakra as Six paths naruto proved, six paths naruto is the pinnacle of sensors, why not use his words? lmao.

      What regular Shinobi did sealed the Juubi to a smaller volume? Obito who's body was half-comprised of the very cells that specifically work against Tailed Beasts? Or Madara? Who had the same advantage?

      They're regular so meh.

      Do you understand the fundamental difference between Kamui's intangibility vs a Sealing tech? Kamui can send any bit away from him, so it makes sense that his own technique can send parts or all of himself to another dimension. It's a jutsu involving himself and just that. It's just sending parts of himself away, meaning it ignores anything else. That's why its limit has to do with time.

      You're focusing too much on this, i'm proving that there exist a tech that has an infinite footing to it, the possibility of more is no longer impossible.

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    • @Jason

      Um you're ignoring that there's an example that sealing is limited by the container but sure assume that only the Totsuka blade can take in as much chakra as it wants, because of one statement that doesn't even make mention of chakra at all.

      My guy Six Paths Naruto is on a whole other level, and Sage Mode Naruto is already far above Itachi in terms of chakra. So yeah, I'm using it on the scale of Sage Mode Naruto because Itachi is not on the level of Six Paths Naruto.

      Lol "regular" sure.

      There literally fundamentally different and have like zero correlation between what they do and their limits

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    • The snake broke off from a part that wasn't even sealed yet, so of course it got away. If nothing broke off from the SoT sealing process they would be sealed. That would be the same thing as if a part of the Juubi came off before the Ten Tails Coffin Seal finished. You never seem to understand what I try to tell you, so why would I be courteous enough to continue to drive it to you? Instead of can continue saying what I've been saying and get a laugh at you alls frustrations.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Um you're ignoring that there's an example that sealing is limited by the container but sure assume that only the Totsuka blade can take in as much chakra as it wants, because of one statement that doesn't even make mention of chakra at all.

      Backup what seems to be a baseless statement.

      My guy Six Paths Naruto is on a whole other level, and Sage Mode Naruto is already far above Itachi in terms of chakra. So yeah, I'm using it on the scale of Sage Mode Naruto because Itachi is not on the level of Six Paths Naruto.

      So wait, now you're implying that the blade can't seal sage mode Naruto?,I'm sure 5% chakra Itachi is not on Orochimaru and his summoning level at that time but look what happened.?. It still won't make sense to term it as infinite, when it isn't. STOP TRYING LMAO.

      There literally fundamentally different and have like zero correlation between what they do and their limits

      [1]

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    • FlatZone wrote: Instead of can continue saying what I've been saying and get a laugh at you alls frustrations.

      Your logic was extremely flawed, I showed you why, you had no argument in reply. While I'm sad you can't think of an actual reply, I'm glad you're getting a laugh. That's a positive lol

      @Jason

      What statement are you talking about exactly?

      No I never said that, stop trying to strawman. I'm saying that Sage Mode Naruto is a ridiculous sensor already and can sense on a huge scale as shown when he exited the turtle thing and sensed the war. So when he can't sense a limit to something, it's a ridiculously huge bit of chakra far above even himself, who himself has much more chakra than Itachi and if we include the Nine Tails he definitely has more chakra than Nagato. And I still think Itachi could seal Naruto, but the point is the Juubi is on an entirely different level than the biggest chakra giants that Itachi has encountered, and he hasn't even encountered anyone on the level of say, Hashirama in terms of chakra.

      I didn't term it as infinite.

      I mean you just strawmanned to try to win an argument but sure tell me to stop trying lol.

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    • FlatZone wrote: The snake broke off from a part that wasn't even sealed yet, so of course it got away. If nothing broke off from the SoT sealing process they would be sealed. That would be the same thing as if a part of the Juubi came off before the Ten Tails Coffin Seal finished. You never seem to understand what I try to tell you, so why would I be courteous enough to continue to drive it to you? Instead of can continue saying what I've been saying and get a laugh at you alls frustrations.

      Of course the fact that things can get away don't define the limit of the chakra that can be sealed, that example was to demostrate that the sword binding wasn't limitiless, I didn't say that it can't seal someting bigger than the hydra, but te snake that got away was part of the hydra when the sword pierced it so now why should we suppose that the gourd and the sealing method should instead be limitless?

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    • Squinty97 wrote: I'm saying that Sage Mode Naruto is a ridiculous sensor already and can sense on a huge scale as shown when he exited the turtle thing and sensed the war. So when he can't sense a limit to something, it's a ridiculously huge bit of chakra far above even himself, who himself has much more chakra than Itachi and if we include the Nine Tails he definitely has more chakra than Nagato. And I still think Itachi could seal Naruto, but the point is the Juubi is on an entirely different level than the biggest chakra giants that Itachi has encountered, and he hasn't even encountered anyone on the level of say, Hashirama in terms of chakra.

      I didn't term it as infinite.

      • Proof of chakra being a determining factor of who does or does not get sealed is what i'm asking for
      • Limitless is the same as infinite, without limit lol.
      • Reason why it can be sensed is because it gives off the same sensation as the natural energy that moves throughout the world.
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    • Again, conatiners are limiters in terms of what get sealed if the container can't hold that chakra. Naruto being half a Jinjuuriki is the example.

      You keep asking for "proof" but you literally have no proof btw.

      Again, you can ignore context if you want but I already explained why I used the term limitless and if you're still so worked up over it I'm sorry it's upsetting you.

      Idk what your last point is saying tbh.

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    • FlatZone wrote: IDGAF that the thread is speculation, I say it can store the Juubi because it was never shown or stated to have a limit. There was never any hint, never even anything to compare it to having a limit. You all say "oh It MUST have a limit like that, because I think so and you are wrong" Guess what?? no. You can "TRY" to sound intelligent here and keep commenting the same bs over and over but unlike other users on here I won't entertain your bs. SoT has no such established limit, and until it does what I wrote was completely plausible and possible, it cannot be proven wrong and unless an OP says the SoT can't absorb Juubi as stipulation then it can, and a smaller volume? Naruto was a human new born and by all means not the same as a corpoeral legendary sealing item Your argument falls flat again right there. Try somebody else with that bull, because it will never work on me.

      HaHaHa

      Good job at addressing this @Squinty. Much respect.

      I wonder about the "genjutsu-like world of drunken dreams". It implies that whatever is sealed needs to be alive and conscious. And certainly makes sense when we consider what has been sealed before with the TB. Would the juubi be considered conscious?

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Again, conatiners are limiters in terms of what get sealed if the container can't hold that chakra. Naruto being half a Jinjuuriki is the example.

      I see no proof mate, gasps could it be?......that.........you.......don't have any?

      You keep asking for "proof" but you literally have no proof btw.

      My argument is that it seals the body and whatever is in the body goes along with it, we have showings and statement of this. So i don't need to prove anything.

      Again, you can ignore context if you want but I already explained why I used the term limitless and if you're still so worked up over it I'm sorry it's upsetting you.

      Idk what your last point is saying tbh.

      My last point is addressing Naruto and why he couldn't sense the juubi and termed it as limitless.

      • Reason why it can be sensed is because it gives off the same sensation as the natural energy that moves throughout the world.
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    • @Jason

      I just gave you an example showing you that specifically chakra limits what can and can't be sealed, are you just ignoring anything against you right now?

      Yeah uh, How do you jump from "it sealed these targets" to "it can seal any amount of chakra because the chakra is inside a body." How you managed that leap in logic is beyond me.

      Yeah, it gives off the same sensation as Nature Energy. Which he can sense. And couldn't figure out a limit to it. Even though all the nature energy he's looking for is inside the Juubi, as in within its volume, he couldn't sense a limit. What's your point? Do you think he was confusing the Juubi with regular Nature Energy in the world?

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    • Squinty97 wrote: @Jason I just gave you an example showing you that specifically chakra limits what can and can't be sealed, are you just ignoring anything against you right now?

      Actual proof>>> ^^

      Yeah uh, How do you jump from "it sealed these targets" to "it can seal any amount of chakra because the chakra is inside a body." How you managed that leap in logic is beyond me.

      Logic in anime, how nice. :D

      What's your point? Do you think he was confusing the Juubi with regular Nature Energy in the world?

      According to kurama. Anyways this should be irrelevant by now, there is no such thing as infinite chakra, they all have reserves.

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    • @Jason

      Yeah when you bring actual proof then maybe that whole "actual proof>>" thing you got going would have more merit.

      Yeah so since we're discussing hypothetical, we have to use logic. Otherwise there's no point.

      Kurama said that Naruto would confuse Juubi with Nature Energy from the world?

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Yeah when you bring actual proof then maybe that whole "actual proof>>" thing you got going would have more merit.

      So you don't have any proof because i'm not seeing any.

      Yeah so since we're discussing hypothetical, we have to use logic. Otherwise there's no point.

      The blade sealing the bodies is not hypothetical it's an actuality, if not tell me where the bodies of the 8 headed serpent and Edo Nagato resides. In a world of drunken dreams should be your answer.

      Kurama said that Naruto would confuse Juubi with Nature Energy from the world?

      Irrelevant now.

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    • @Jason

      More evidence to stand on than you do so -_(^-^)_- Like idk if you see the hypocrisy. You have no proof and less correlating evidence. Yet you keep asking for ironclad proof as if I need to prove you wrong more than you need to prove your stance right.

      No, what's hypothetical is how much chakra in can seal. You're saying that since it can seal Orochimaru, it should be able to seal the Juubi. Those two things aren't in any way close in terms of chakra, and we've seen precedent that a container that something is sealed in limits how much can be sealed based on chakra.

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    • There you go again with the chakra argument and following behind you is no proof.

      What don't I have proof of? I'm literally speaking from existent evidence, you on the other hand..

      You dont need to prove me wrong, i'm not asking for that, what i'm asking is that you prove you right.

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    • @Jason

      Better evidence than you have.

      You literally have no actual proof either. Of SoT being able to seal any amount of chakra bEcAuSe iT sEaLs ThE wHoLe BoDy.

      ?? I gave evidence as to why my opinion has more credibility, whereas you have nothing. The SoT sealed a Shinobi and you somehow took that and believe it means "it can seal any amount of chakra because it seals the body."

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    • Let's put my two cents here.

      the Totsuka is essentially on the same rank of Kusanagi. by legends they are the same blades, but here we seperate them on what they can do. one seals the other cuts. period.

      so we can safely assume their power levels should be on same level.

      and we have clear evidence that the Kusanagi, the legendary blade that can cut through anuything, couldnt cut throuth the Diamond Staff transformation of Enma nor could it pierce through 4tailed Naruto.

      so a blade of same legend should have somewhat same limits.

      so yes it cannot seal something like the Juubi. no freaking way.

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    • First off, that's horrible logic. Secondly, the fact that the Juubi can be sealed AT ALL, such as in Obito or Madara or Hagoromo using a sealing technique and using themselves as the container goes to show that it indeed CAN be sealed and is NOT too large in size nor quantity of chakra, as the beast does not have unlimited chakra nor unlimited natural energy, Naruto just could not sense the limit at the time with his current sensory abilities, he later does so.. when he says Kaguya has more chakra than the Juubi. It can be sealed into a container useing a sealing technique, so the fact it CAN be sealed immediately shifts this argument. There is no reason the Juubi should not be able to be sealed by SoT, which is not a technique being used by person but a corporeal legendary sealing item, the sealing pot used to seal the 8 tails was also a legendary sealing item and was used to seal the 8 tails multiple times with ease, it may not be corporeal or anything but just the same it is a sealing ITEM. There is plenty logic supporting it being able to seal the 10 Tails.

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    • @Flat

      i dont know who you are talking to, so next time you do, do @(nickname) for future reference.

      Still, if it is me...

      No. that is not horrible logic. Kusanagi and Totsuka are similar level of legendary swords. so their powers should be similar in what they do.

      and, no, you freaking cannot compare the Rikudo tools to the swords. the tools belonged to Rikudo, the ultimate boss of the series, so his weapons should be far beyond the tier of Kusanagi and Totsuka.

      first of all, about the Juubi being sealed into a container. The ones it was sealed in were no ordinary humans. Hagormo, Obito or Madara are not ordinary beings.

      I dont need to say about Hagoromo has he is part Otsutsuki and it is clear that the Otsutsuki stand above all in the series. they freaking created the Shinju which then became the Juubi.

      and as for Madara, he was the reincarnation of Indra, another part Otsutsuki. so the above point.

      as for Obito. the guy had half his body made of Hashirama cells cultivated directly from the Gedo Mazo. that alone gives him the boost he needs to be a container. and even then he was nowhere near capable of using the Juubi power as Madara did, because he was an incomplete conatainer.

      and it has time and again said in the series that you cannot just pick up a random kid and seal a biju in them. it is why Konoha got Kushina from Uzu because of her linage and so was B selected to be the next host for his linage. even the two brothers, Kinkaku and Ginkaku, could handle Kyubi chakra because they were said to be descendents of Hagoromo.

      So, throughout the series it is shown that the container has to be capable to seal a biju. and here we are talking of the Juubi.

      so the idea that Totsuka sword, that mostly holds the same rank as Kusanagi, should not be capable of sealing Juubi.

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    • @Kaze You keep making this "same rank" "same as" stuff up.

      https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Totsuka

      being a variant of something does not make it the same, that's super weak logic. It is an ethereal sealing gourd and also the only known requirements to being able to have the 10 tails sealed inside of you using the coffin seal is being alive and having a Rinnegan eyeball with nothing else mentioned as a requirement. You also failed to grasp the purpose of my post. SoT is an ethereal sealing gourd, it was made to seal things, it was never once said that it could only seal people or small sized/small amounts of things. Yet again, as I have said before there is more evidence to say it can seal the Juubi because the Juubi is clearly not unsealable for the reasons already mentioned. There is no reason AT ALL that SoT can't seal it.

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    • @Flatzone

      Obito with Hashi cells, Madara with Hashi cells, Hagoromo himself, etc, have monstrous vitality so you using those as your baseline to say whether the SoT can seal the Juubi is unfounded.

      SoT could be limited by how much chakra it can intake, and that's already been shown to be the case with sealing in general.

      8 Tails is not the 10 Tails, so comparing the two isn't worth much.

      "variant" just means different in a way or two, not "ridiculously more powerful." Variant in this case is very likely regarding the fact that it seals things at all.

      The Hokage necklace was made to suppress Tailed Beasts and Naruto broke it with Tailed Beast chakra, so the argument that SoT is made to seal so it must be able to seal the Juubi is weak.

      You're right, the SoT isn't only able to seal small things. It sealed Nagato who is a chakra monster. Still nowhere near the Juubi though.

      It's not clearly sealable. You just saying things doesn't make em facts lol.

      Yes there is a reason, chakra restriction. Which was already shown in other sealing methods.

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    • @Flat

      i dont understand what is wrong with the logic that you see. it is a common trope to anime and manga of having a variant of things with different purposed to be about the same power. the fact that it is specifically mentioned to be a variant to Kusanagi just shows that its power level should be around the same scale.

      and it being an ethereal liquid sword is just hype for it, like how Kusanagi could cut through anything.

      on that note...

      remember i said that the Kusanagi could not pierce through 4tailed Naruto and it is supposed to be the one with the cutting ability. so how in the world could Totsuka possibly even pierce the Juubi body?

      and you just ignored all the container points i mentioned, which specifically stated time and again you needed to be someone special to have even the bijus sealed in you.

      and unless something makes the Totsuka some other worldly sword than it cannot possibly contain the power of the Juubi. and it is not an other worldly sword as it is specifically mentioned to be a variant of Kusanagi.

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    • You are all spouting some far fetched speculation and trying to tell me its facts lol You have absolutely, literally zero evidence to say SoT can't seal the Juubi. You are applying your own logic(which isn't very good btw) to try and justify your unfounded and not so relevent speculation to the SoT. Again all that was ever said to be needed to seal the Juubi with the Coffin Seal was a living body and a Rinnegan eye, Obito had that, Madara had that, Hagoromo had that and you trying to tack on further requirements is entirely head canon. SoT has no established limit and as far as saying how likely you think it is that it can't, it doesn't matter at all because that's YOU'RE take on it(which I don't really care about either of your opinions on this). So if I state it can seal the Juubi, there is nothing to prove it can't, it is legendary sealing gourd, it sealed not only Orochimaru, but the Orochi beast, and the Cursed Seal along with it and it seals until the target is gone without stop. Only the snake that broke off and ran was able to get away. I'll have ot repeat myself just for you two, I. Don't. Care. About. Your. Speculation. There is zero inclination that the SoT couldn't seal a beast Beast like the Juubi, would it seal all of it? Idk as the Juubi can freak out and split apart and all of its parts can run away the same way it split away from the God Gates and split away from Amaterasu, but if the Juubi does not split away it will be sealed.

      edit

      keep it up though, we're getting a kick out of this lol

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    • @Flat

      apart from the part that most of it is not speculation.

      it is cannon that Jinchuriki were chosen for their linage, namely Kushina, B, the Gyuki jinchuriki before B, Gaara. they didnt just pick up a random kid from the street and sealed a biju in them.

      Kurama is sealed in Uzumaki. the Gyuki Jinchuriki come from the same family. both families with great linage.

      that is enough to say that you need to be special to have biju sealed in you.

      and if parts of the Juubi need special people of linage, which mostly comes down from the RIkudo line, to be used for sealing them, then speculating that having the Juubi sealed in you needs more than something as simple as the coffin seal. it probably will get the Juubi sealed in anyone, but that person would implode, as Juubito was close to imploding, because he does not have the right linage, body and power.



      and yeah, if you dont want to agree. then lets not agree. simple

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    • @Flatzone Yeah, it is funny how you're crying that one side has no evidence when you also have literally no proof that it can seal the Juubi.

      Your logic is "It was said it can do this, so it must be able to do this to everything and anything." Well that's terrible logic lol. I can give you examples why if you want, but you tend to ignore any evidence anyways and go straight towards the old "You have no proof it can't so that's proof it can" argument which is hilariously bad.

      I'm not tacking on any requirements. It's already established that Jinjuuriki are chosen for their specific lineage. The Juubi would obviously need a much stronger than average host, and that lines up with all its known hosts. In fact, Obito barely contained the Juubi and almost lost himself.

      Plenty of things in the Naruto universe have no established limits, but that doesn't mean they're limitless lol, that's silly.

      If you state that SoT can seal the Juubi, that's fine but it's your opinion and not fact. You'll probably say "You can't prove me wrong!" Okay I'll use your logic then:

      Kakashi knows Izanagi and Izanami. And since he's fast enough to warp TBM Naruto without even Obito realizing, he can warp Itachi's head off. So Kakashi would beat Itachi in a fight. After all, he's shown to be able to do this and there are no established limits to his speed with Kamui.

      See why your logic is terrible?

      That beast was Orochimaru lol, now you're just reaching. His technique transformed him into that. And that thing is what? Only stronger than Manda? Lol the Tailed Beasts are above that and the SoT is already shown to seal Bijuu levels.

      "It's the legendary sealing gourd" Being legendary doesn't make it have unlimited ability. The Seven Swordsmen of the Mist were legendary.

      The curse seal was Orochimaru's chakra so yeah it sealed it, that's not super special lol.

      "Oh it seals everything without stopping except if it gets away like that snake did" Lol nice argument you have there.

      There's zero evidence to support that the SoT can seal on that scale, so idk what your point is. Containers are limited in how much chakra they can take, and the SoT isn't like a Six Paths Tool.

      "It will be sealed." I'm glad you're having a good time lol, because I certainly find it amusing that you're so wrapped up in your own opinion that you can't separate speculation from fact. But yeah that's what you do with Itachi. You just find every way possible, even if you're blatantly making things up (like you trying to say Obito was a sensor) just to try to make him cooler. Itachi is fine, a great character. He doesn't need you jumping through hoops to keep him relevant against Juubi level characters.

      @Kaze Kenjin

      Juubito had the same DNA essentially as Madara, since Madara at that point had no transmigrant chakra and both had Uchiha/Senju cells. So it's not just lineage, it's something else. And what's a limiter we've already seen on various containers? Chakra.

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    • @Kaze

      Interesting comparison you have with the TB and the SoT. Nice proof for a legendary weapon being exaggerated and having a limit.

      @Squinty

      Doesn't some of the transmigrant chakra remain behind? Although, reanimation does allow you to bypass conventional rules. I hope you are as entertained as I am at the lack of self-awareness on this thread lol.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Juubito had the same DNA essentially as Madara, since Madara at that point had no transmigrant chakra and both had Uchiha/Senju cells. So it's not just lineage, it's something else. And what's a limiter we've already seen on various containers? Chakra.

      Madara still had Indra's chakra after his second death. Hence, how Kabuto was able to reawaken his Rinnegan by implanting more of Hashi's DNA into his corpse. This was further proven when Hagoromo materialized right after Hashi transferred some of his chakra into TTJ-Madara's lower half; Hagoromo attributed to his materialization to the combination of Indra's, Asura's, and Kurama's chakra.

      Though lineage plays a role in being a TTJ, I thought it was mostly attributed to will power.

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    • Again, thats not proof of a limit. Try again.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Again, thats not proof of a limit. Try again.

      Proof doesn't exist for either side, when will you get that? There will never be full proof that it can seal it and there will never be proof that it can't seal it. Because it never happened.

      What we're doing is showing evidence from the series that support the likelihood of either side.

      What you're doing is saying that because one side has no proof, that's proof that your side is right. Doesn't work that way.

      @Ninja I was under the assumption that transmigrants no longer have the chakra since Asura and Indra are elsewhere now, could be wrong though. Also yes to that last bit lol.

      @Ultima I thought Madara's Rinnegan came back because that's how he died; with the Rinnegan. Then Kabuto made modifications to bring him back young but also with the Rinnegan still.

      Though what you said about Hashi cells bringing back Hagoromo is something I can't explain, so I guess you're right lol.

      As far as being a TTJ, I definitely think you need the vitality to manage. That's why Uzamakis were always chosen to be Jinjuuriki. Willpower plays a role too, shown by Obito. But I'm pretty sure they only were able to contain it at all because they had stronger bodies, due to Hashi cells.

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    • How the hell do you not realize what I've been doing this entire time??

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    • @Squinty

      It could be just the effect of edo tensei that allows both Madara and Hashirama access to the chakra. Or just some of the chakra remains with them always, makes no difference to the series either way. One other point of interest is the fact that, children apparently have similar chakra signatures compared to their parents. As referenced when Mu stated to the 4th Kazekage that another shinobi, "Gaara", had a similar/same chakra signature in the 4th war. Now, could this also extend to transmigrant chakra? Let's say for Sarada and Boruto?

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    • @Flatzone no one wants to try to interpret your posts for you, because if we did that would be a strawman, as we'd be responding to not what you said but another idea that we assumed you meant.

      So yeah, how about you say what you mean instead lol.

      @Ninja that's true. Wonder if if Boruto and Sarada got together, if the Asura bits and Indra bits would make something powerful. Maybe even the Rinnegan down the line.

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    • @Squinty Just asking, is the Rinnegan still the most powerful dojutsu, or is Boruto's Jogan stronger, or some other eye down the line? Haven't really stuck around with Boruto.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: @Jason Better evidence than you have.

      Third reply and no proof to backup your chakra arguement Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Is admitting you're wrong so hard?

      You literally have no actual proof either. Of SoT being able to seal any amount of chakra bEcAuSe iT sEaLs ThE wHoLe BoDy.

      I'm on a roller-coaster it seems. I never said anything about chakra, that is for you to prove because it is you who's saying such a thing.

      ?? I gave evidence as to why my opinion has more credibility, whereas you have nothing. The SoT sealed a Shinobi and you somehow took that and believe it means "it can seal any amount of chakra because it seals the body."

      Seal any amount is chakra? doesn't seem like my words. Again, never said anything about chakra.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: As far as being a TTJ, I definitely think you need the vitality to manage. That's why Uzamakis were always chosen to be Jinjuuriki. Willpower plays a role too, shown by Obito. But I'm pretty sure they only were able to contain it at all because they had stronger bodies, due to Hashi cells.

      Vitality would be a better word than lineage. I don't know, I've never gotten the impression that Obito and Madara were able to become TTJs due to their enhanced bodies. But then, again, Obito walked off and actually boasted after being impaled by Kakashi's Raikiri and Madara was still fine after taking the brought of a Tailed Beast Full Charge with only an arm missing (how was it cleaned sliced off?). So, you might be right.

      Squinty97 wrote: Wonder if if Boruto and Sarada got together, if the Asura bits and Indra bits would make something powerful. Maybe even the Rinnegan down the line.

      I don't think that's the case (I certainly hope not). Otherwise, Black Zetsu would not only have been trying to convince the transmigrants, but also their children too.

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    • @Jason

      Read the thread. I've made it clear neither side has proof for this, it's all about intepreting the evidence in the series, which I've given you. Sorry you're so hung up on that.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.

      You literally said it'd be bull for the SoT not to seal something even if it had infinite chakra so that's a lie.

      And see above.

      @Ultima yeah it's not very clear. Good point on the children though. They'd still be pretty powerful anyways

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    • the linage topic i brought into the situation of being a Jinchuriki is because the manga time and again mentions it. from the Uzumaki having Kurama sealed in them and the family of B particualarly chosen to be host to Gyuki. it is further illustrated with Ginkaku and Kinkaku. Gaara to has the linage of a Kage.

      Yes, willpower and vitality play a vital role. but the lineage is the key factor.

      Kishimoto was kin on the inheritence throughout the lineage throughout the whole manga, be it the Jinchuriki or Kekkei Genkai or Hiden jutsu. so discounting lineage which was mentioned time and again in regards to jinchuriki is wrong.


      For Madara, he absoulutely retained Indra's chakra. just because a new version of Indra was born does not mean he loses the chakra. he awakened Indra's chakra within him which resulted in the Rinnegan after getting Ashura's chakra after all. so that chakra was retained within him. for example Naruto retaining the small bits of biju chakra that was given to him even after all this years.

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    • About Seals being limited by their container, Naruto was a baby, but the Totsuka blade apparently seals the opponent in a entire genjutsu world. So it vary well may be able to seal the Juubi.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Good point on the children though. They'd still be pretty powerful anyways

      Can't argue with that

      Kaze Kenjin wrote: the linage topic i brought into the situation of being a Jinchuriki is because the manga time and again mentions it. from the Uzumaki having Kurama sealed in them and the family of B particualarly chosen to be host to Gyuki. it is further illustrated with Ginkaku and Kinkaku. Gaara to has the linage of a Kage.

      Kishimoto was kin on the inheritence throughout the lineage throughout the whole manga, be it the Jinchuriki or Kekkei Genkai or Hiden jutsu. so discounting lineage which was mentioned time and again in regards to jinchuriki is wrong.

      Killer Bee was adopted into Ay's family; they are not related by blood. So that alone disproves the notion of a lineage requirement. Only Kushina was mentioned to have been selected as a jinchuriki because of her special chakra. Naruto was selected for convenience's sake and hope that he would defeat "Madara". In the jinchuriki page, it states

      To strengthen the jinchūriki's bond with the village, it is tradition for them to be related to their village's Kage: for example, Killer B is the brother of the Fourth Raikage and Gaara is the son of the Fourth Kazekage

      The only time lineage was mentioned (in regards to being a jinchuriki) was in regards to Kushina being selected to be Kurama's jinchuriki and the Gold and Silver brothers being able to survive eating the flesh of a tailed beast.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Read the thread. I've made it clear neither side has proof for this, it's all about intepreting the evidence in the series, which I've given you. Sorry you're so hung up on that.

      So you admit you have no proof. Finally. And sorry evidence in the series doens't really point to how much chakra the target has, just that who get's pierced, gets sealed. Period.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.

      You literally said it'd be bull for the SoT not to seal something even if it had infinite chakra so that's a lie.

      Because I unlike you was acting on what's already presented on the series, you get pierced you get sealed.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: Read the thread. I've made it clear neither side has proof for this, it's all about intepreting the evidence in the series, which I've given you. Sorry you're so hung up on that.

      So you admit you have no proof. Finally. And sorry evidence in the series doens't really point to how much chakra the target has, just that who get's pierced, gets sealed. Period.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.

      You literally said it'd be bull for the SoT not to seal something even if it had infinite chakra so that's a lie.

      Because I unlike you was acting on what's already presented on the series, you get pierced you get sealed.

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    • @Ultima

      i am not talking about the Raikage's linage. even i know B was adopted by A as his brother.

      i am talking about the linage that had Gyuuki sealed in them. Blue B and those before him. they were the father and uncle of Blue B. and Killer B was chosen as the next host. it can be safely speculated that he comes from Blue B's family lineage, especially the way Blue B talked of him. it was as if he knew him well and he certainly wasnt going to know some random kid who had just recently become a B. also if kumo went to the trouble of making a lineage into Gyuuki Jinchuriki they arent suddenly going to stop doing that just because, especially in a world where clans and blood ties seem to really matter.

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    • BrainBrand wrote: About Seals being limited by their container, Naruto was a baby, but the Totsuka blade apparently seals the opponent in a entire genjutsu world. So it vary well may be able to seal the Juubi.

      Considering that the so-called world is located inside the gourd, it may not be a literal planet.

      Kaze Kenjin wrote: i am not talking about the Raikage's linage. even i know B was adopted by A as his brother.

      i am talking about the linage that had Gyuuki sealed in them. Blue B and those before him. they were the father and uncle of Blue B. and Killer B was chosen as the next host. it can be safely speculated that he comes from Blue B's family lineage, especially the way Blue B talked of him. it was as if he knew him well and he certainly wasnt going to know some random kid who had just recently become a B. also if kumo went to the trouble of making a lineage into Gyuuki Jinchuriki they arent suddenly going to stop doing that just because, especially in a world where clans and blood ties seem to really matter.

      The lineage of Gyuki's previous jinchurikis is the Raikage's lineage. Nothing indicates that Blue B was chosen because of a specific bloodline trait. As I've pointed out before, it's tradition for jinchurikis to be related to the village's Kage to strengthen their bond to the village. Killer was chosen to be the next B because he was the only one out of his peers to suceed in completing the double lariat with Ay. He then was chosen to be Gyuki's next jinchuriki because he was "next in kin". Blue B was talking about Killer B's character, not about where his bloodline came from. You're grasping at straws here.

      Heck, Yugito, being Matabi's jinchuriki further dismantles your argument.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Considering that the so-called world is located inside the gourd, it may not be a literal planet.

      The gourd is way bigger than Naruto at least and Naruto could hold the full 9 tails inside of him, during the war arc.

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    • The gourd is way bigger than Naruto at least and Naruto could hold the full 9 tails inside of him, during the war arc.

      The gourd is only 3-4x bigger than Naruto and Naruto never had the full 9 tails during the war. Regardless, that still doean't mean that the SoT can go from sealing Orochimaru and Nagato to sealing the freaking Juubi.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      The gourd is only 3-4x bigger than Naruto and Naruto never had the full 9 tails during the war. Regardless, that still doean't mean that the SoT can go from sealing Orochimaru and Nagato to sealing the freaking Juubi.

      The point is Naruto was capable of holding the full nine tails, if the Gourd is 3-4x the size why couldn't it take in the Juubi?

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    • @Jason

      You have no proof either so that's irrelevant. And keep up, I've been past this.

      The evidence in the series clearly shows that containers limit how much chakra can be sealed., so that's a lie.

      What do you even mean unlike me. I showed you direct examples of containers being limited in how much chakra they intake. You're acting on the fact that it seald Orochimaru, so it should be able to seal anything at all.

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    • Evidence against being able to seal the Juubi with the SoT? No. Speculation? Sure. You have nothing here.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Considering that the so-called world is located inside the gourd, it may not be a literal planet.

      Obito has a world in his eyeball


      @Squinty...You literally said you have no proof to support your chakra argument, then you proceed to use again that same chakra argument in the second sentence, seems like you don't wanna let go of this, and using human bodies as containers as examples as opposed to a spiritual weapon is not the same thing ;_;

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    • @Squinty

      @Kaze already made the excellent point of the legendary SoT, not living up to the legend. Yet, some users wanna disregard/ignore that and use the same flawed legendary argument for the TB. Even now, some still misunderstand your point of how containers have limits for sealing, and the TB sealing Orochimaru doesn't give it the feat of bypassing this aforementioned limit. But yeah, let's see the rebuttal.

      @Ultima

      Didn't Black Zetsu go after the Indra transmigrants due to their susceptibility to the curse of hatred? It would make sense to go after someone who you could manipulate more easily. I'm still curious about children of transmigrants and what power they could inherit, what do you think?

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    • BrainBrand wrote: The point is Naruto was capable of holding the full nine tails, if the Gourd is 3-4x the size why couldn't it take in the Juubi?

      Are you trying to establish a proportion? If so, it doesn't hold up. Kurama is a squirrel in size and chakra compared to the Juubi.

      FlatZone wrote: Evidence against being able to seal the Juubi with the SoT? No. Speculation? Sure. You have nothing here.

      The cognitive dissonance continues. The onus is on you to prove that the SoT can seal the Juubi. Saying that the blade can seal the beast because there wasn't a stated limit is flawed logic and also speculation. Squinty at least brought up precedent of the limits of sealing in the example of 100% Kurama not being able to be sealed in an infant Naruto. To further cement the precedent, Kurama can't be sealed in the Gedo Mazo until all the other tailed beast have been sealed. So there's now two examples of containers being the limits of sealing techniques.

      Jason the Mangekyou wrote: Obito has a world in his eyeball

      No, he doesn't. His eyeball give him access to a world

      Ninja Of War wrote: Didn't Black Zetsu go after the Indra transmigrants due to their susceptibility to the curse of hatred? It would make sense to go after someone who you could manipulate more easily. I'm still curious about children of transmigrants and what power they could inherit, what do you think?

      He went after the transmigrants of both sons. I think he tampered with the stone tablet just to get the Uchihas to instigate the war with the Senjus for generations.

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    • @Flatzone how are you not understanding that since no one has any proof at all, this entire thread is speculating on the likelihood on whether or not the SoT can seal the Juubi. No one has proof, and that's why this discussion exists at all.

      @Jason

      That world isn't in his eyeball, it's a separate dimension that his eye acts as a portal to.

      The reason I'm saying there is no proof is because there isn't any proof. The SoT never sealed anything near the scale of the Juubi and to say it can or can't is speculation. All we do is make arguments based on evidence from the series.

      And for some reason you ignore evidence from the series that goes against your argument, but that's not my fault.

      The chakra argument is not proof, it's a point in the series that has to do with sealing. Which the SoT does.

      you're using the fact that it sealed Orochimaru as evidence that it can seal the Juubi, idk how those two are remotely the same.

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    • @Ultima

      I must have missed that part of BZ going after both sons. But that doesn't really negate my point of children of transmigrants having similar chakra signature. If the transmigrant is the most likely option, it doesn't mean that their children are not options, what do you say?

      EDIT: Previously I mentioned ToS, when in fact I meant the Kusanagi Sword (KS).

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    • And then Obito went on to seal the other TB's into the Mazo before Kurama at all, in fact 2 were out of order including Kurama weren't they? So no. You keep trying really hard to apply the limits of other things to the SoT and that is a fallicy in itself.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: I must have missed that part of BZ going after both sons. But that doesn't really negate my point of children of transmigrants having similar chakra signature. If the transmigrant is the most likely option, it doesn't mean that their children are not options, what do you say?

      EDIT: Previously I mentioned ToS, when in fact I meant the Kusanagi Sword (KS).

      Transmigrants only possess a portion of the sons' chakra, hence how sensors are were able to differentiate Naruto's/Sasuke's and Hashirama's/Madara's chakra. It's most likely that the sons' chakra aren't passed down to children at all, otherwise BZ would go after the transmigrant's children as well.

      FlatZone wrote: And then Obito went on to seal the other TB's into the Mazo before Kurama at all, in fact 2 were out of order including Kurama weren't they? So no. You keep trying really hard to apply the limits of other things to the SoT and that is a fallicy in itself.

      And Naruto was later able to contain 100% Kurama. Does thst change the fact that he wasn't able to do so as an infant? No, it doesn't. So that's a very moot point. Also, the order of the other Tailed Beasts doesn't matter as long as Kurama is sealed last.

      Everyone here, except you and Jason, are not presenting their claim as a fact. You are completely hypocritical and lack self-awareness to see that you keep on insisting that your speculation and fallacious arguments are fact.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Are you trying to establish a proportion? If so, it doesn't hold up. Kurama is a squirrel in size and chakra compared to the Juubi.

      Well, at the very least it should be able to seal the Kyuubi.

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    • BrainBrand wrote: Well, at the very least it should be able to seal the Kyuubi.

      If your proportionality argument holds true, then sure. But, I doubt that the sword can seal Kurama.

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    • Again, I don't care what you doubt, I don't care what you think. You literally have no real evidence here. In fact if you wanted to compared anything to SoT in the aspect of sealing you would have to compare sealing TOOLS like the Gourd that was used to seal the 8 tails since it is also a gourd and also a sealing tool. Only thing to use in comparison is that. Anything else is you and others trying to compare apples to oranges and it's pathetic. The fact you can't see what I have been doing here shows you don't really pay attention to my posts, my post were more passive aggressive versions of what YOU and a few others already do. You literally can't handle it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Again, I don't care what you doubt, I don't care what you think. You literally have no real evidence here. In fact if you wanted to compared anything to SoT in the aspect of sealing you would have to compare sealing TOOLS like the Gourd that was used to seal the 8 tails since it is also a gourd and also a sealing tool. Only thing to use in comparison is that. Anything else is you and others trying to compare apples to oranges and it's pathetic. The fact you can't see what I have been doing here shows you don't really pay attention to my posts, my post were more passive aggressive versions of what YOU and a few others already do. You literally can't handle it.

      All sealing methods require a container of some sort. That's what the comparison stems from. You are so full of yourself. All we have been seeing is you dismissing other people's arguments on the grounds that they're speculating despite your arguments being nothing but speculation. What is it I can't handle? Is it your incessant hypocrisy? Or your flawed logic? Or, is it your childish behavior for being called out on these things? The fact that you were actively trying to make more passive aggressive versions of what we apparently do just goes to show it's you who can't handle it.

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    • Squinty97 wrote: That world isn't in his eyeball, it's a separate dimension that his eye acts as a portal to.

      Obviously.

      The reason I'm saying there is no proof is because there isn't any proof. The SoT never sealed anything near the scale of the Juubi and to say it can or can't is speculation. All we do is make arguments based on evidence from the series.

      And for some reason you ignore evidence from the series that goes against your argument, but that's not my fault.

      The chakra argument is not proof, it's a point in the series that has to do with sealing. Which the SoT does.

      There we go, accepting isn't hard lmao If we were to go according to the blade description then it would be able to seal it, unless the juubi has some way to counter it, like it shedding skin to counter amaterasu and since no such way was shown makes it more of a reason to say it should.

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    • @UltimaDude keep crying, it's satisfying. @Jason they won't listen because they don't care, they just don't want the SoT being able to seal something like the Juubi lmao

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    • All im seeing here is heavy speculation, little evidence, and everyone acting like they are right. Except Squinty

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    • It's amazing (and hilarious) how certain users claim they don't care about anyone else's points, yet feel the need to continue responding and repeating they don't care lol.

      @Ultima and @LegionZero

      Since Orochimaru's Kusanagi sword (KS) and the YM failed to live up to the legend of, "cutting everything" and "countering everything", do you think that the argument of "legendary items always does what it claims" is flawed?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      Since Orochimaru's Kusanagi sword (KS) and the YM failed to live up to the legend of, "cutting everything" and "countering everything", do you think that the argument of "legendary items always does what it claims" is flawed?

      As far as I can tell, YM hasn't failed to counter anything that attacks it yet. Kirin, likely destroyed a skeletal Susanoo.

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    • @Brain

      Don't want to go too off-topic here, so after my evidence, do you agree the legendary item argument is flawed?

      Ch392, pg 10, you can see one of the snakes from Orochimaru's eight branches technique bypassing the YM (Meaning the YM is not adapting to the snake's attack). Anime further proves this, in episode 138 of part 2, multiple snakes bypassed YM and even constricted Itachi's Susanoo with the YM in tow.

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    • FlatZone wrote: keep crying, it's satisfying. @Jason they won't listen because they don't care, they just don't want the SoT being able to seal something like the Juubi lmao

      There's nothing to cry about here. It's just sad that you continue to say you're right without providing any evidence

      Ninja Of War wrote: Since Orochimaru's Kusanagi sword (KS) and the YM failed to live up to the legend of, "cutting everything" and "countering everything", do you think that the argument of "legendary items always does what it claims" is flawed?

      Yeah, that goes without saying. I never trust such statements without feats to back it up.

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    • @Legionzero thanks. Idk how to explain it more clearly than I have that the thread is speculating lol, but some people keep saying that since one side has no proof, that means they're right. Even though this never happened in the series so there's no proof for either side lol

      @Flatzone

      "Oh I was just doing what you guys were doing the whole time." Can't speak for everyone, but since a large portion of your replies of this nature were directed at me, why don't you find where I stated my opinion as fact and said something along the lines of "You can't prove me wrong so that's proof I'm right." in this thread. Shouldn't be too hard, they're in this thread apparently.

      Also I think it's hilarious that you say "they won't listen because they don't care, they just don't want the SoT being able to seal something like the Juubi lmao"

      Even though you're the one who constantly makes up abilites for different characters to either hype up or downplay different characters. Seems like you're the one who just wants things to be a certain way. Since you have to either make up evidence or try to say "You have no proof so it's proof that I'm right."

      @Jason

      You kept trying to get me to admit I was wrong about something I never even claimed. Worse still, you're belittling on the basis that I have no proof, despite literally no sides having proof. What's the deal here lol, I still haven't been able to figure out what this tangent has been about.

      Well yeah we don't just go by description though. Otherwise, nothing can penetrate Gaara's defense, Chidori can pierce literally anything, Amaterasu is as hot as the sun, Susanoo is unbreachable since it's the ultimate defense, Hiruzen is above every Hokage, etc.

      The SoT can seal targets, but claiming it can seal such a large amount of chakra like the Juubi, which not even a perfect Sage could sense the limit to, is speculation and only that. And I've told you why I thought it makes sense for it to have a limit, because it's literally a sealing weapon and we have precedent about sealing method limits.

      You're using a one sentence description and the feat that it sealed Orochimaru.

      The one-sentence description never mentioned any weakness to the technique, but we know they exists by Itachi's own words about jutsu in general. So just because the description doesn't mention limits, it's not any sort of evidence to say that those limits don't exist.

      The fact that it sealed Orochimaru is just... it's nowhere near the Juubi. Like, imagine saying that since the 17 Genin in Boruto were able to make it difficult for Kakashi to move, they should be able to do the same to Naruto. They aren't comparable.

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    • FlatZone wrote: @Jason they won't listen because they don't care, they just don't want the SoT being able to seal something like the Juubi lmao

      Lmao and now they're attacking the Yata Mirrior


      Squinty97 wrote: You kept trying to get me to admit I was wrong about something I never even claimed. Worse still, you're belittling on the basis that I have no proof, despite literally no sides having proof. What's the deal here lol, I still haven't been able to figure out what this tangent has been about.

      Well yeah we don't just go by description though. Otherwise, nothing can penetrate Gaara's defense, Chidori can pierce literally anything, Amaterasu is as hot as the sun, Susanoo is unbreachable since it's the ultimate defense, Hiruzen is above every Hokage, etc.

      The SoT can seal targets, but claiming it can seal such a large amount of chakra like the Juubi, which not even a perfect Sage could sense the limit to, is speculation and only that. And I've told you why I thought it makes sense for it to have a limit, because it's literally a sealing weapon and we have precedent about sealing method limits.

      The one-sentence description never mentioned any weakness to the technique, but we know they exists by Itachi's own words about jutsu in general. So just because the description doesn't mention limits, it's not any sort of evidence to say that those limits don't exist.

      I really think you're saying it can't seal the juubi because we've never seen it do so. Boruto never fought Orochimaru so we don't know if Orochimaru can beat him. Why does it need to have a weakness or limit? it's a spiritual weapon, it's not bound by the same logic as other things. I know there exists nonsensical statement in the naruto franchise, but using common sense we can spot those out, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, based on showings ,that was contradicted. The blade can seal whatever it pierces, was that contradicted in any way? did the juubi demonstrate anything that can contradict that statement? also can you site the precedent you're talking about, if it's something we've not gone over already.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Lmao and now they're attacking the Yata Mirrior

      Lol, I guess it's easier to ignore/disregard my point than actually acknowledging it. What about the evidence I brought is incorrect?

      You say common sense can spot out nonsensical statements, yet others have shown the "legendary item argument" is flawed. So why still do you think it isn't?

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    • A snake that just got slammed by the mirrior poses no threat to Itachi, I doubt it could even get past stage 3 susanoo's defense either ways the mirrior has already shown that it can expand, the anime evidence is just them creating extra screentime or use the same argument above ^

      I don't know what you're talking abt.

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    • Yes the Shield did expand and it did block all attacks actualy thrown at it, the difference is the snakes slivered slowly around the Susanoo and they are physical actual beings. Then again Sasuke's Kunai, Kusanagi Sword, and explosive tags were reflected off of the Shield too.

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    • The panels I've brought show the YM not adapting to the snakes going over the top, meaning it's not countering the snake attack. If it lived up to the "legendary argument of doing what the legends say" that would not have happened. So, the only logical conclusion would be to say that so called "legendary items", don't have credibility simply for being called legendary. Which would also fall into the category for the TB.

      Btw @Jason, the anime further proves my point, and doesn't show the YM expanding.

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    • How is the snake attacking in Ch392, pg 10? simply being stunned and thrown to the ground doesn't quantify as an attack. From the limited perspective we have it shows that the snake is not even past the shield if it doesn't plan on attacking with it's tongue then it's simply no threat lmao cuz he's out of reach to do anything.

      It's obvious that it can alter it's size, in this scene it's even half of it's size no expanding, no atk. scene before explosive bombs mirrior expanding after bombs

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: How is the snake attacking in Ch392, pg 10? simply being stunned and thrown to the ground doesn't quantify as an attack. From the limited perspective we have it shows that the snake is not even past the shield if it doesn't plan on attacking with it's tongue then it's simply no threat lmao cuz he's out of reach to do anything.

      It's obvious that it can alter it's size, in this scene it's even half of it's size no expanding, no atk. scene before explosive bombs mirrior expanding after bombs

      Once again, my point is about the snake going over the top. So why be factually inaccurate and pretend I'm talking about a different snake? Also, your reasoning for the snake bypassing the YM on the ground is flawed. So, you say that snake is conveniently not attacking now, despite it's actions? Lol, your interpretation does not fit with the scene pal.

      For the last part of your post, you've answered it before, perspective. The YM looks smaller due to the viewing-angle changing.

      And lastly, you still disregard/ignore my point of the legendary item argument being flawed, so we'll wait for the rebuttal.

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    • If it touches the mirror, it gets blocked. I dont know why its so hard for people to understand that.

      The argument about whether or not it can block 360 or expand or whatever is really old and really stupid.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou
      Jason of the Mangekyou removed this reply because:
      '-'
      16:17, March 14, 2020
      This reply has been removed
      • Ninja Of War wrote:

      Once again, my point is about the snake going over the top. Also, your reasoning for the snake bypassing the YM on the ground is flawed. So, you say that snake is conveniently not attacking now, despite it's actions?

      I thought it was the one below, looking at the one at the top I don't see the difference. And don't just ignore evidence because i can play at that game too. I see all the snakes that came in contact with the shield being stunned after they got slammed with the shield, they were temporarily immobile and that's where the TB slashed them, where are they attacking?


      For the last part of your post, you've answered it before, perspective. The YM looks smaller due to the viewing-angle changing.

      It's not expanding then was my point, compared to after the paper bombs.

      And lastly, you still disregard/ignore my point of the legendary item argument being flawed, so we'll wait for the rebuttal.

      We're working on whether it's flawed or not right now, if you succeeded then we'll get to this if i succeed this loses it's relevance


      • LegionZero wrote:

      The argument about whether or not it can block 360 or expand or whatever is really old and really stupid.

      Except there are panels that literally shows it expanding [1]

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    • @Jason

      What am I apparently ignoring? Where are the snakes stunned? Where are the snakes temporary immobile? All that's there are motion lines on the snakes indicating continuous motion. Which then leads to the snake on page 10 going over the top of the YM. The whole exchange is an attack(s) lol.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: It's not expanding then was my point, compared to after the paper bombs.

      What?

      We're working on whether it's flawed or not right now, if you succeeded then we'll get to this if i succeed this loses it's relevance

      How conveniently you again forget/ignore/disregard. My point of the YM being flawed, was an add-on to @Kaze's point of "legendary items being flawed". That's when @Kaze mentioned that Orochimaru's Kusanagi Sword couldn't cut Naruto's 4 tailed form, despite being a legendary weapon able to cut anything. So, it's always been relevant.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: What am I apparently ignoring? Where are the snakes stunned? Where are the snakes temporary immobile? All that's there are motion lines on the snakes indicating continuous motion. Which then leads to the snake on page 10 going over the top of the YM. The whole exchange is an attack(s) lol.

      I think both of us are talking about something different, show a scan don't cite.

      My point of the YM being flawed, was an add-on to @Kaze's point of "legendary items being flawed". That's when @Kaze mentioned that Orochimaru's Kusanagi Sword couldn't cut Naruto's 4 tailed form, despite being a legendary weapon able to cut anything. So, it's always been relevant.

      Am i supposed to know about that lol. One item being flawed doesn't mean all is, you have to prove all is flawed to know that all is flawed.

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    • @Jason

      Ch 392 pg 10, that's me citing authority. Please answer my previous questions: Where are the snakes stunned? Where are the snakes temporary immobile?

      How are you supposed to know? Well, below, your response indicated acknowledgement of the post where I pointed both the Kusanagi sword and the YM out lol. So you claiming you once again forgot?

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Lmao and now they're attacking the Yata Mirrior

      The argument that "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary" is flawed. And yes, to falsify something, only one instance of failure is needed.

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      • Can't you post a scan lol, that's what i'm requesting, citing the same thing changes nothing really man.
      • By that I mean't i wasn't aware of the statement made by the other guy.
      • So using similar logic a weak genin existing would mean all genins are weak. One instance would be needed to prove that something is flawed only if the items under observation are exact. So if all genin's are Boruto, and one is weak, then all is weak.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • LegionZero wrote:

      The argument about whether or not it can block 360 or expand or whatever is really old and really stupid.

      Except there are panels that literally shows it expanding [1]

      I didnt say it doesnt expand.


      You are so busy trying to be right that you missed the entire point of my post

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Can't you post a scan lol, that's what i'm requesting, citing the same thing changes nothing really man.

      I don't know why you are requesting a scan when all the information needed I already provided. Like before, I'm not making an imgur account just for this. However, my previous questions still need answering: Where do you see the snakes stunned? Where do you see the snakes temporary immobile? Third time asking now.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • By that I mean't i wasn't aware of the statement made by the other guy.

      Sure.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • So using similar logic a weak genin existing would mean all genins are weak. One instance would be needed to prove that something is flawed only if the items under observation are exact. So if all genin's are Boruto, and one is weak, then all is weak.

      Arguments of authority need only one instance of failure to be falsified. Your "genin example" isn't an argument of authority. The reverse, "All genins are weak" does fail, since Naruto is still a genin at the end of part two and not weak. Which is the same as the flawed "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary" argument.

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    • LegionZero wrote: I didnt say it doesnt expand.

      If your post wasn't implying anything close, then your post was pointless? lmao


      Ninja Of War wrote: Where do you see the snakes stunned? Where do you see the snakes temporary immobile? Third time asking now.

      They just got slammed by a huge shield, what do you think will happen genius? that was it for the snakes cuz the next panel has the susanoo swinging the sword at them gg.


      Arguments of authority need only one instance of failure to be falsified. Your "genin example" isn't an argument of authority. The reverse, "All genins are weak" does fail, since Naruto is still a genin at the end of part two and not weak. Which is the same as the flawed "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary" argument.

      This is literally a fallacy lmao. Unsound logic.

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    • @Jason

      So only your opinion that the snakes were stunned and temporary immobile? As I said before, the motion lines indicating continuous motion for the snakes doesn't fit your interpretation.

      Lol, how is it a fallacy and unsound logic? I don't think you understand the concept of how things are proven.

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    • It's literally in the manga panels dude lol. There are no motion lines to support movement, because they got stunned and that was the last time we've seen them alive to know that they were moving post stun.


      Do you? they are usually proven by facts, credible sources etc. You're using fallacies lmao. Argument of authority is a fallacy. You have to independently prove that the totsuka, yata mirror is flawed, not assume it is because something else was lol, do you not read your comments before posting?

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    • @Jason

      To be fair, I also think that just because items or weapons are "legendary", it doesn't mean that we should propel their capabilities to insane levels.

      Again, I'm not saying that Totsuka Blade doesn't potentially have this capability. Although, similar concepts to this one have been proven not to be the case when they fail to do something/don't match the expectations. Totsuka had around 30 seconds of total screentime before it could establish such a thing.

      I'm gonna try and use a good example for this. Say, the Rinnegan. At the time of its introduction, we had Jiraiya explain its origins and its power. He obviously did his research, considering he was the first person to outwardly state that he knew exactly what it was when he first saw Nagato. Jiraiya described it as "a legendary eye that would either bring an era of peace or utter chaos". Sounds pretty mighty, am I right? We can compare this awe and sensation to what people in this thread (and others who have watched the anime) think about Totsuka Blade. It being called "corporeal in origin" or "invincible" have the same effect as what was said about the Rinnegan.

      I'm sure I don't have to spell out the difference between these two concepts. One has had enough screentime to adapt, and analyse, and break-down, and build on its strengths and weaknesses. The other has not. Thus, we cannot assume the limitations of the Totsuka Blade to be low, or to be high. But, given that we have seen weaknesses/limitations (no matter how slight they are) of the Rinnegan's abilities, especially in Pain's invasion, we can understand that it is no where near as monumental and legendary as it was initially described. For instance, the Rinnegan was initially made out to be the bringer of the apocalypse, and a divine power that no normal human could comprehend. Don't get me wrong, the Rinnegan is strong as hell, but it's showcasing does not match its first description, at least in my eyes. It would need to be on some DBZ shit to match that. Hence, I don't think that its right to consider Totsuka as limitless in all aspects.

      Now, here's the kicker. All of those statements that I mentioned about these two concepts... are subjective. Jiraiya saying that the Rinnegan would bring "an era of peace or utter chaos" is subjective. Black Zetsu calling the Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror "invincible", is subjective. These statements are by no means a measurement or quantifiable; we cannot make such claims, or deduce such debates, with just these statements. Sure, they might help if they add to your argument, but it cannot be your entire argument.

      Jason, I get what your argument is, and I can't prove it wrong. But you can't prove it right either. It's like science, it will just float as an unbacked theory forever, because Kishimoto will never address this ever.

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    • @Halcyonite

      I understand what you're saying, but i'm not saying it's limitless. Alike the Rinnegan the juubi had enough screen time to show us something that could've settled this, some ability to negate something like the totsuka blade and it's ability, it showed us it could resist Amaterasu but nothing further. The juubi can be sealed using seals like juubi coffin seals, so sealing it is not impossible. My speculative limits for the blade is the casters state, it's reach, avoidability, entities that can negate it's powers or render it ineffective (programmed izanagi users, etc), things it can't pierce etc.

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    • @Jason

      The most related thing I can think of regarding Totsuka Blade is the "things it can't pierce" aspect. Totsuka Blade is rumoured to be a variant of the Kusanagi. Definition of "variant" indicates that the two swords differ in one particular respect from the same thing. Hence, we can understand that aside from their main usages, they are not entirely different.

      Now my point. Kusanagi, the variant of Totsuka, was said to be able to cut through anything at first. However since then, there had been instances in which this was not the case. This is why I think all of the throwaway statements made by Shinobi regarding a particular weapon, ability or person are almost always hyperbolised. "It can cut through anything", or "it will create utter destruction", or "it will make him invincible", or even "its powers are godly". I just don't think exaggerated statements alone are enough.

      However, in the case that they are enough, this is what I think.

      In terms of the Juubi, I don't think that the Totsuka Blade would be able to seal it. My thinking is in regards to how Obito couldn't utilise Kamui once he had become the Ten Tails Jinchuriki... because of the Juubi. You referred to the sealing of Totsuka as a "world of drunken dreams" so I'm trying to fit my thinking with that concept. With that, it seems clear that the Juubi is obviously greatly tied to the Shinobi planet, and is a significant part of its environment. A good comparison to what I'm trying to say would be if someone took the Sun away from Earth. All life would cease to exist if that were to happen. Therefore, if the Juubi, the embodiment of Nature Energy, was to be taken away into Totsuka, there would be substantial repercussions/changes to the Shinobi world.

      Amaterasu, which is said to "burn away anything to nothing", (another hyperbolised statement), failed to burn away the Juubi. This could be because of the nature of the thing it is trying to burn. It shouldn't be able to destroy something so central and pivotal to the deep-rooted ecosystem that has been there since Kaguya's arrival. I'm using "shouldn't"s and "couldn't"s a lot because, again, there's not enough evidence on both sides to make this argument even remotely supported, but this is the best of what I could come up with.

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    • @Jason you said it could seal infinite chakra what do you mean you weren't saying it was limitless lol

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    • @Halcyonite:

      • I don't think totsuka's description is a hyperbole, whatever gets pierced gets sealed if you take that statement and everything showm in the manga you can determine what can get sealed or pierced. Truthseeker orbs? i don't see that happening, pre programmed Izanagi spammers? they get pierced, but does that mean they must get sealed? nope.
      • In the war, the juubi got sealed away, that resulted in no negative repercussions on the planet whatsoever.
      • Amaterasu was working surprisingly, but the juubi simply shed the portion of skin that was ablaze. The statement for amaterasu is a hyperbole yes, but if you take all of the manga showings into consideration everything really can be countered by something. In this case, the counter for the totsuka blade simply isn't the juubi, kamui yes, tsb yes.

      @Squinty.

      • Nothing has infinite chakra as there exists reserves, i remember saying that.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: It's literally in the manga panels dude lol. There are no motion lines to support movement, because they got stunned and that was the last time we've seen them alive to know that they were moving post stun.


      Do you? they are usually proven by facts, credible sources etc. You're using fallacies lmao. Argument of authority is a fallacy. You have to independently prove that the totsuka, yata mirror is flawed, not assume it is because something else was lol, do you not read your comments before posting?

      Where is it tho? Are you not seeing the motion lines around the snakes? I don't know where you are pulling the snakes got stunned or temporary immobile from, so they remain opinion.


      I thank @Halcyonite for already saying most of what I wanted to say. I'm not using any fallacies, I'm using the principle of the burden of proof for authoritative statements. Which the argument "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary" is and fails due to my aforementioned points, so using it as a point for the TB is flawed. If you disagree, please state which fallacy I'm apparently using.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: So if The 8 headed Summoning had infinite chakra and was struck by the sword for sealing he won't be sealed? that's bull.

      Since you forgot again, here's you claiming that it would be bull if the SoT couldn't seal literally infinite chakra so -_('-')_-

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    • @Ninja Of War

      • Can you just man up and make an imgur account,won't even take 2 minutes. Both of us are arguing blind, cuz i'm not seeing what you're seeing. Also if i slam you in the face with a 10 pound shield what would happen to you?
      • You mentioned the Argument of Authority, which is a fallacy. CITE the source of this statement {legendary items carry authority because they are legendary}


      @Squinty

      • The blade capable of sealing a being with infinte chakra doesn't make it limitless, because of the 'body being sealed' argument. Though if the blade could seal an omnipotent being then it would most likely be considered limitless, but that is absurd. But as i've said in non outdated comments infinite chakra doesn't exist.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: I didnt say it doesnt expand.

      If your post wasn't implying anything close, then your post was pointless? lmao

      Again, you are so focused on being right that you miss the point. You can go back read my post a few more times over but you still might miss it because you are stuck on a loop where anything anyone else says is an attempt to prove you wrong.

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    • pointless²

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    • @Legion

      Well said.

      @Jason

      Lol, Ch392, pg 10. I don't know why you say you are blind. Since it's there, and no, I'm not gonna make an imgur account. Which page are you on?

      No, an "argument of authority" is a statement that cites implicit authority from character statements or perceived author statements. Such as "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary". Btw, I'm not making that argument, I'm only pointing out that it's flawed and can't be used as a point for the legendary YM or TB.

      My source? The reason I brought this up is because both you and @FlatZone were using that argument:

      FlatZone wrote: So if I state it can seal the Juubi, there is nothing to prove it can't, it is legendary sealing gourd, it sealed not only Orochimaru, but the Orochi beast, and the Cursed Seal along with it and it seals until the target is gone without stop.

      And...

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Why does it need to have a weakness or limit? it's a spiritual weapon, it's not bound by the same logic as other things. I know there exists nonsensical statement in the naruto franchise, but using common sense we can spot those out, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, based on showings ,that was contradicted.

      I await your response.

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    • .......

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: .......

      Can't or won't respond lol?

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    • xD this guy ^

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    • What do you guys think is the limit to the cutting ability of Totsuka Blade? It doesn't have physical form, so how does it cut?

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    • FlatZone wrote: xD this guy ^

      Indeed, it's hilarious that you can't respond.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: pointless²

      Only because i tried to get you to see the point twice.

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    • BrainBrand wrote: What do you guys think is the limit to the cutting ability of Totsuka Blade? It doesn't have physical form, so how does it cut?

      Mind boggling question.

      LegionZero wrote: Only because i tried to get you to see the point twice.

      You just admitted it was pointless...

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: Only because i tried to get you to see the point twice.

      You just admitted it was pointless...

      I admitted trying to get through to you is pointless. But again, the point goes over your head XD

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou
      Jason of the Mangekyou removed this reply because:
      '-'
      19:32, March 16, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • LegionZero wrote:

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: Only because i tried to get you to see the point twice.

      You just admitted it was pointless...

      I admitted trying to get through to you is pointless. But again, the point goes over your head XD

      sure.

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    • SoT can seal Juubi :)

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    • lmao😂

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    • Ok it's time to be completely serious here, no more having fun here for now.

      Either the https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Totsuka CAN seal the Juubi.

      Or https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Six_Paths_Ten-Tails_Coffin_Seal and https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Six_Paths_%E2%80%94_Chibaku_Tensei are literally the only things in existence PERIOD that can seal the Juubi. Now we can't reach a factual conclusion here.. so to end this on a good note I say that NOTHING except the Coffin Seal and SP Chibaku Tensei can seal the Juubi and as a general rule of thumb in these threads it should stay that way to avoid long pointless threads like this. That takes away nothing from the SoT itself, and just goes to show how exclusive the two other mentioned sealing techs are.

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    • Those are just the only things shown to seal it. Saying those two only can, defeats the purpose of a theory and speculation board.

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    • We have nothing to prove SoT CAN seal the Juubi, while at the same time nothing to PROVE it can't. So in reality the thread will go back and forth forever. I say we leave it at only those two methods being capable of sealing a Juubi and leave it at that.

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    • That's not true, we have the statements; it's just the people who won't accept it ,they have nothing.

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    • There is that loop again.

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    • @Flatzone, I agree. There's a chance it can seal the Juubi, but it's not supported by any feats or statements, just like there aren't any direct feats or statements against it. I always just personally thought it made sense that like with most sealing, the SoT would have a limit on how much chakra it could take.

      @Jason you have no statements besides its function. "It seals its victims." That's not enough to say that it can seal whatever it wants. The function didn't hint at any weakness, though we know one exists by Itachi's words. So your statements aren't in any way definitive

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    • LegionZero wrote: There is that loop again.

      When did Itachi cast Izanami?

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    • They're not my statements lol.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: That's not true, we have the statements; it's just the people who won't accept it ,they have nothing.

      Says the user who ignores/disregards evidence and can't respond when their argument has been shown to be invalid.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: That's not true, we have the statements; it's just the people who won't accept it ,they have nothing.

      Says the user who ignores/disregards evidence and can't respond when their argument has been shown to be invalid.

      Evidence lmao. And simply didn't reply because you didn't wanna comply. GG

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    • @Legion

      Well said.

      @Jason

      Lol, Ch392, pg 10. I don't know why you say you are blind. Since it's there, and no, I'm not gonna make an imgur account. Which page are you on?

      No, an "argument of authority" is a statement that cites implicit authority from character statements or perceived author statements. Such as "legendary items carry authority because they are legendary". Btw, I'm not making that argument, I'm only pointing out that it's flawed and can't be used as a point for the legendary YM or TB.

      My source? The reason I brought this up is because both you and @FlatZone were using that argument:

      FlatZone wrote: So if I state it can seal the Juubi, there is nothing to prove it can't, it is legendary sealing gourd, it sealed not only Orochimaru, but the Orochi beast, and the Cursed Seal along with it and it seals until the target is gone without stop.

      And...

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Why does it need to have a weakness or limit? it's a spiritual weapon, it's not bound by the same logic as other things. I know there exists nonsensical statement in the naruto franchise, but using common sense we can spot those out, Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage, based on showings ,that was contradicted.

      I await your response.

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    • oh look it's deja vu

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    • Lol, gotcha.

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    • If true this makes Itachi hands down the most negligent and incompetent ninja in the entire series. Could've sealed Gedo Mazo/Jyuubi and ended the threat of Akatsuki for good and didn't even try to do so? smdh

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    • CyberianGinseng wrote: If true this makes Itachi hands down the most negligent and incompetent ninja in the entire series. Could've sealed Gedo Mazo/Jyuubi and ended the threat of Akatsuki for good and didn't even try to do so? smdh

      I mean, Edo Tensei would have mowed everyone down while he did that. Also, Madara wouldnt let that happen. Had Madara not known the Edo cheat code the war would have been over much sooner. Itachi made the best choice given the info he had

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    • I mean, Edo Tensei would have mowed everyone down while he did that. Also, Madara wouldnt let that happen. Had Madara not known the Edo cheat code the war would have been over much sooner. Itachi made the best choice given the info he had

      Edo can also be desummoned, Itachi could've made Kabuto desummon all of them and changed their orders in helping aganist Obito so the actual army wouldn't have to waste lives, or just desummoned all of them and going help ganist Obito before relasing the jutsu, or searching info in Kabuto's mind to know that one can take posses of his own body and become like Madara when everyone was relased so again go halep ganist Obito and the relase the jutsu

      But other than this Sasuke could've juts grabbed the totsuka and yata and use them that way

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    • @CyberianGinseng

      Didn't think about that. Nice one.

      @Frwt

      The problem is, most of Kabuto's edos were sealed and thus prevented from being desummoned.

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    • The problem is, most of Kabuto's edos were sealed and thus prevented from being desummoned.

      I meant as a stoppping command, like if Iatchi makes Kabuto relase the jutsu everyoe is relased, while he could just make him desummon evryone and it won't matter that the sealed ones won't get desummoned cause the objective is just to get rid of the "bad edos"

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    • @Frwt

      I don't understand. De-summoning doesn't work if an edo is sealed, so how would Itachi force Kabuto to do it?

      The bad ones meaning the ones that were still left at the time? Chiyo, Kimimaro, Pakura etc?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Frwt

      I don't understand. De-summoning doesn't work if an edo is sealed, so how would Itachi force Kabuto to do it?

      The bad ones meaning the ones that were still left at the time? Chiyo, Kimimaro, Pakura etc?

      Yeah the selaed ones can stay sealed, the thing is getting rid of the ones still on the battlfield in particular of Madara

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    • @Frwt

      I guess Madara would rescind the edo tensei contract like he did when Itachi forced Kabuto to release the jutsu. The others edos would provide some resistance, though I don't think they would be able to compete with Obito, Madara and the juubi.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Frwt

      I guess Madara would rescind the edo tensei contract like he did when Itachi forced Kabuto to release the jutsu. The others edos would provide some resistance, though I don't think they would be able to compete with Obito, Madara and the juubi.

      Well it should be different from relasing the soul, but plot-wise with all the things Madara did, this could work for him

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    • @Frwt

      Well, I didn't think about this but at the time Dan was still an edo, so having him in the alliance would be good. Is there any of Kabuto's edos, besides Madara, that you think would have been of importance to the 4th war?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Frwt

      Well, I didn't think about this but at the time Dan was still an edo, so having him in the alliance would be good. Is there any of Kabuto's edos, besides Madara, that you think would have been of importance to the 4th war?

      I meant working as escaping the control, one of my points was to use all the edo in battle but here I'm just saying to get rid of all of them with a desummon and not try to reuse them

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    • Kabuto didnt know there was a way to for Edo to break their contract the Madara did.

      Madara fodderized everyone. All the Edos in the world wouldnt have helped. He would just create Wood clones to match any Edo's left to fight him and used a perfect Susanoo for each one.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Madara fodderized everyone. All the Edos in the world wouldnt have helped. He would just create Wood clones to match any Edo's left to fight him and used a perfect Susanoo for each one.

      Whoa, there. Slow your roll. It's a stretch to say that he can make 100+ Wood Clones each use PS

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Whoa, there. Slow your roll. It's a stretch to say that he can 100+ Wood Clones each use PS

      How so? Edo Madara has unlimited chakra. He created 25 of them no problem. With Perf Susanoo active he is basically untouchable so he just has to wait for his chakra to auto-refuel and then make some more wood clones.

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    • BTW what damage would those do to EDO's lol?

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    • LegionZero wrote: How so? Edo Madara has unlimited chakra. He created 25 of them no problem. With Perf Susanoo active he is basically untouchable so he just has to wait for his chakra to auto-refuel and then make some more wood clones.

      He doesn't have unlimited chakra, just automatic refills. His Wood Clones used legged Susanoo, not PS.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: BTW what damage would those do to EDO's lol?

      He can easily restrict them with Rinnegan rods

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    • A lot. Every time they regenerate, wood clone Madara can swing that sword and obliterate their bodies while real Madara goes and deals with the 10 tails or whatever.

      But damage doesnt matter because has numerous ways to nietralize them. He can genjutsu them into unconsciousness like he did to the Raikage and carry them all away for BFR.

      Or he can use Wood jutsu to supress their chakra to neutralize them all

      Or he can use Recievers to keep them pinned down

      Or he can Chibaku Tensei them

      Theoretically Preta path and human path could help neutralize them

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    • Pretty sure it was clones with susanoo vs all edo but ok.

      Still even Madara with his stolen powers can't take on all edo's, were speaking Jinchuriki's, Kages, Special Dojutsu weilders, OP Kekkai Genkai weilders etc...

      • The clones: They were only displayed with Stage 2 legged susanoo, which can be dealt with by Mu, the third raikage, Roshi with his lava tech, pakura with her scorch tech, Tayuya with audio genjutsu, plus a whole bunch more.
      • Wood Style: Nagato flexes his wrist and shinra tensei's that shit.
      • CQC for Human path: Largely outnumbered to even try this lmao.
      • Chibaku Tensei: Mu, Itachi, the jinchuriki's bijju dama spam. etc.
      • Perfect Susanoo: Shinra tensei, Bijju dama spam, Jinton, they can shift the ground make it fall lmao..
      • Tengai Shinsei: Will take Madara out too, so totally pointless
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    • The goal would be to seal him, they won't need massive destruction to do that. Only planning and timing. SoT will be the key to sealing him away and all they need to do is make Madara think he's all good then bam just like Orochimaru he gets stabbed and boasts about how stabbing him won't do anything until he notices he is being sealed away and there is nothing he can do about it.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Pretty sure it was clones with susanoo vs all edo but ok.

      They can do whatever Madara can soooo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Still even Madara with his stolen powers can't take on all edo's, were speaking Jinchuriki's, Kages, Special Dojutsu weilders, OP Kekkai Genkai weilders etc...

      Madara single handedly no-diffed multiple on your list.

      He could make one clone for every 5 edo Ninja and still probably be doing just fine. He fought the 5 kage and the only thing they didnt have was a dojutsu. Mind you Madara has the 2 most overpowered Dojutsu in the series. Mu can atomize his enemies and Madara still made a joke of him. A could fist fight the 8 tails and he made him look like a joke.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • The clones: They were only displayed with Stage 2 legged susanoo, which can be dealt with by Mu, the third raikage,

      They were barely getting by when Madara was toying with them. The clones can do whatever Madara can do so if he wanted, there is nothing stopping them from going up levels

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Roshi with his lava tech, pakura with her scorch tech,

      KCM2 Naruto was getting punked by Madara without Susanoo active and KCM1 Naruto made 6 full on Bijuu look like punks. Roshi maybe. Lil ol' Pakura... i really dont think so

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Tayuya with audio genjutsu, plus a whole bunch more.

      Maybe but Madara be trapped in a genjutsu from a part 1 character? Tayuya is high chunin at best. Low jonin with wank. And if Madara is in his taller than mountain ranges Susanoo, her little flute is not gonna reach him.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Wood Style: Nagato flexes his wrist and shinra tensei's that shit.

      Assuming he isnt already cought in the Wood Jutsu. Madara's response. Drop meteors on him. Madara's Deva abilities shit on Nagato's.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • CQC for Human path: Largely outnumbered to even try this lmao.

      All Madara has to do is put out a hand and all Ninjutsu is blocked. Anybody who tries to put their hands on him is drained right then. If Madara is matching all the Edo one for one then this isnt a problem anyways.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Chibaku Tensei: Mu, Itachi, the jinchuriki's bijju dama spam. etc.

      Mu: he tried that. Didnt workout

      Bijudama spam: Madara kinda can control Bijuu. They wont be helping the alliamce for long. Also Limbo clones kinda bitch slapped all the Bijuu. Madara can "begone thot" all of those TBBs

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Perfect Susanoo: Shinra tensei, Bijju dama spam, Jinton, they can shift the ground make it fall lmao..

      Ground is irelevent in the perfect Susanoo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Tengai Shinsei: Will take Madara out too, so totally pointless

      From the perfect Susanoo? No one has ever been yanked out of one of those

      Madara has abilities to counter and neutralize every Edo we saw.

      And lets not mention the copying abilities. If he sees 1 sealing jutsu or even a shadow paralysis Jutsu, everyone is kind of screwed. Imagine 26 perfect Susanoo using Shadow paralysis?

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    • LegionZero wrote: He fought the 5 kage and the only thing they didnt have was a dojutsu. Mind you Madara has the 2 most overpowered Dojutsu in the series. Mu can atomize his enemies and Madara still made a joke of him. A could fist fight the 8 tails and he made him look like a joke.

      Guru Guru fought the 5 kage also plus a hokage plus alliace shinobi's, no big deal. Back then Madara didn't even have the rinnegan, Mu could've done his ass in with jinton, nothing in Madara's arsenal could've tanked that but you know he was plots pet. Atleast Ay fights with his own power compared to stealing others and fighting with it.

      They were barely getting by when Madara was toying with them. The clones can do whatever Madara can do so if he wanted, there is nothing stopping them from going up levels

      Clones are different and weaker from originals so assume less.

      KCM2 Naruto was getting punked by Madara without Susanoo active and KCM1 Naruto made 6 full on Bijuu look like punks. Roshi maybe. Lil ol' Pakura... i really dont think so

      You mean the already exhausted, restrained and fatigued naruto? also Madara got 'punked' by hirudora what's your point?

      Maybe but Madara be trapped in a genjutsu from a part 1 character? Tayuya is high chunin at best. Low jonin with wank. And if Madara is in his taller than mountain ranges Susanoo, her little flute is not gonna reach him.

      Alot of things are from part 1 chill. Not saying it's hold them for long but it'll be enough, forcing him and them to deactivate susanoo and in that moment they can be chooped down, or the original getting totsuka blitzed.

      Assuming he isnt already cought in the Wood Jutsu. Madara's response. Drop meteors on him. Madara's Deva abilities shit on Nagato's.

      Why would he allow that lol. Madara would be dropping it on himself which just dumb.

      All Madara has to do is put out a hand and all Ninjutsu is blocked. Anybody who tries to put their hands on him is drained right then.

      • cough* he can't drain taijutsu *cough* there are other forms of attack he can't absorb, like soul possession by dan kato which is perfect to stall and seal, or genjutsu, or gold dust etc.

      Mu: he tried that. Didnt workout

      Bijudama spam: Madara kinda can control Bijuu. They wont be helping the alliamce for long. Also Limbo clones kinda bitch slapped all the Bijuu. Madara can "begone thot" all of those TBBs

      When did Mu face a CT? LOL. He can't summon the gedo mazou as an edo, sadly he doesn't have limbo clones here as well.

      Ground is irelevent in the perfect Susanoo

      Shift it to make it fall, it bigger they are they hard they fall.

      From the perfect Susanoo? No one has ever been yanked out of one of those

      Madara has abilities to counter and neutralize every Edo we saw.

      And lets not mention the copying abilities. If he sees 1 sealing jutsu or even a shadow paralysis Jutsu, everyone is kind of screwed. Imagine 26 perfect Susanoo using Shadow paralysis?

      • He can't be in PS and use tengai shinsei, it requires base susanoo to weave the seals, besides which PS will only be tanking the TS for the alliance.
      • So does the edo, they can neutralise him.
      • Literally no uchiha copied any jutsu in the whole series so chill, not saying they can't but it's not in their nature to do so, besides which Hiden techs like the kagemane can't be copied
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Guru Guru fought the 5 kage also plus a hokage plus alliace shinobi's, no big deal. Back then Madara didn't even have the rinnegan

      Back when? Im talking about Edo Madara

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Mu could've done his ass in with jinton, nothing in Madara's arsenal could've tanked that but you know he was plots pet.

      Right... plots pet... because absorbing any ninjutsu wasnt a pre-established Rinnegan ability

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Atleast Ay fights with his own power compared to stealing others and fighting with it.

      ....whats your point. Crying about the origin of a characters abilities doesnt stop them from having those abilities

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Clones are different and weaker from originals so assume less.

      Since when? Naruto's shadow clones could still make Kurama Avatars. Even if they were weaker perfect Susanoo's, they would still be perfect Susanoo's and would be stronger than most. And even if the clones don't start out with Madara's max chakra, they will eventually refill because Edo, and the refill will be quicker because Preta Path

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      You mean the already exhausted, restrained and fatigued naruto?

      KCM2 mini TBB and Madara couldnt care less.

      This same Naruto still scales to be weaker than Edo Hashirama who Edo Madara was stronger than.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      also Madara got 'punked' by hirudora what's your point?

      The weaker levels of his Susanoo did, when Madara wasnt fighting to kill. And we know Perfect Susanoo is WAY stronger than the one that was by Hirudora

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Alot of things are from part 1 chill. Not saying it's hold them for long but it'll be enough, forcing him and them to deactivate susanoo and in that moment they can be chooped down, or the original getting totsuka blitzed.

      Did you just say that Tayuya will force Madara to drop Perfect Susanoo?? Or any Susanoo? Thats rich. The skill and power gap between Tayuya and Madara is like, a million times bigger than the scale & power gap between Kurenai and Itachi and we saw what happened to Kurenai.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Why would he allow that lol. Madara would be dropping it on himself which just dumb.

      Nagato doesnt know about Madara's wood release. He didnt even know he had Madara's eyes.

      As for Madara dropping meteors on himself being dumb. He literally did it in the manga. He also has a gigantic flying Susanoo to get a safe distance away. He also know Hiding in Surface so he can use a clone to do it while slips away pretty much in detected.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • cough* he can't drain taijutsu *cough* there are other forms of attack he can't absorb like soul possession by dan kato which is perfect to stall and seal, or genjutsu, or gold dust etc.
      • Cough* Preta can absorb chakra on contact too
      • cough* Madara out-Taijutsu's 90% of the cast.

      I would love to see where it is said/shown soul possession cant be absorbed.

      I would love to see where is is said/shown the chakra in gold dust cant be absorbed.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      When did Mu face a CT? LOL.

      I meant he tried using particle style against Madara. Madara countered that but i didnt realize you were referring specifically to using it against CT

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      He can't summon the gedo mazou as an edo, sadly he doesn't have limbo clones here as well.

      He doesnt need the gedo mazo to control them. He has Sharingan. Not sure where you get the idea that he doesnt have Limbo clones while Edo.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Shift it to make it fall, it bigger they are they hard they fall.

      Big whoop. Perfecr Susanoo falls. Still an inpenetrable defense even if its nit standing upright. Also it flies.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • He can't be in PS and use tengai shinsei, it requires base susanoo to weave the seals, besides which PS will only be tanking the TS for the alliance.

      Never stated or shown that he needs base Susanoo for meteors.

      Susanoo is able to create extra appendages. If thats is an ability exlusive to Itachi's Susanoo, nothing stops Madara from creating a clone for a second Susanoo and summoning the meteors cooperation Ninjutsu style

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • So does the edo, they can neutralise him.

      Because that worked so well when Naruto and Gai and Kakashi and the 5 Kage tried it.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Literally no uchiha copied any jutsu in the whole series so chill, not saying they can't but it's not in their nature to do so, besides which Hiden techs like the kagemane can't be copied

      Tell that to Sasuke and Sarada... And Madara

      Hiden techniques can be copied since anyone can learn them if they had a teacher. KKG, Summons, item specific jutsu and sage mode stuff cant be copied.

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    • People think SoT can seal Madara?!

      Dafuq?!?

      He has Izanagi. There's absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop Izanagi from erasing any attack, including SoT. And he's a master at it so he's not limited to one minute per eye like Danzo. How do you think he fooled everyone with a dead body laying in a tomb so long? He woke his dead ass up with Izanagi and got right back to business. SoT can't do squat to Madara.

      LegionZero wrote: I mean, Edo Tensei would have mowed everyone down while he did that. Also, Madara wouldnt let that happen. Had Madara not known the Edo cheat code the war would have been over much sooner. Itachi made the best choice given the info he had

      How long was Itachi a part of Akatsuki before he died? Wasn't it about 8 years? You mean to tell me Itachi, the super ninja, couldn't get access to Gedo Mazo in 8 years?!? We saw Sasori and Deidara physically present in the room alone with Gedo Mazo during the save Gaara arc. Yet Itachi, the super spy, couldn't finagle that much? Without Gedo Mazo, they couldn't seal the tailed beasts. The whole plan takes a major hit. According to some folks, Itachi could've easily taken care of Gedo Mazo. It's criminal that he didn't do it. He needs to have his corpse dug up and bitch slapped for that alone.

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    • He used Transcription Seal: Izanagi and that is definitely not working how you described it. Also Madara only has 2 uses available of Izanagi to begin with, one for each eye.

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    • He only needs one. Itachi would never get that chance again. Madara has too many counters for anything Itachi could pull out of his anus. He better stick to trying to seal the Juubi he somehow forgot to seal when he was alive. He has a better shot at that. Slim, but better than he does with Madara.

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    • He didn't even know the location of the Gedo if he knew it existed anyway, the Mountains Graveyard wasn't the Akatsuki home base, slim. You hate Itachi the manga character, kind of weird and neck beardish to hate an anime character lol

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    • LegionZero wrote: Right... plots pet... because absorbing any ninjutsu wasnt a pre-established Rinnegan ability

      He didn't had the rinnegan when he attacked MU..saying Madara can tank jinton is abosolute wank, you think Madara would've even survived against the kages with his own powers whilst being alive? hell no.

      ....whats your point. Crying about the origin of a characters abilities doesnt stop them from having those abilities

      Ik, but it just signifies how weak they are to need it in the first place :D

      Since when? Naruto's shadow clones could still make Kurama Avatars. Even if they were weaker perfect Susanoo's, they would still be perfect Susanoo's and would be stronger than most. And even if the clones don't start out with Madara's max chakra, they will eventually refill because Edo, and the refill will be quicker because Preta Path

      Simply because the bijju is also replicated when the clones is being created. Erm that's not how it works, they spawn will less reserves and stay with that...

      KCM2 mini TBB and Madara couldnt care less.

      This same Naruto still scales to be weaker than Edo Hashirama who Edo Madara was stronger than.

      Point still remains. Edo hashirama literally defeated Edo rinnegan Madara....

      Did you just say that Tayuya will force Madara to drop Perfect Susanoo?? Or any Susanoo? Thats rich. The skill and power gap between Tayuya and Madara is like, a million times bigger than the scale & power gap between Kurenai and Itachi and we saw what happened to Kurenai.

      As shown visual genjutsu differs from audio genjutsu, if tayuya was using visual genjutsu i wouldn't have even considered her. CS2 Tayuya + Ay + Itachi = Defeated Madara

      As for Madara dropping meteors on himself being dumb. He literally did it in the manga. He also has a gigantic flying Susanoo to get a safe distance away. He also know Hiding in Surface so he can use a clone to do it while slips away pretty much in detected.

      • Can't do any of that if you're being soloed by Tayuya's genjutsu
      • Pointless attack on an army of immortals. Madara remains dumb
      • Would he even have the chance to do any of that? everyone would be on his ass bitchslapping him.
      • Cough* Preta can absorb chakra on contact too
      • cough* Madara out-Taijutsu's 90% of the cast.

      I would love to see where it is said/shown soul possession cant be absorbed. I would love to see where is is said/shown the chakra in gold dust cant be absorbed.

      • Cough* ik that, hard to make contact when your head keeps falling off with multiple attacks.
      • coughs to death* those were LITERALLY fodders he fought in tai with.
      • He needs to raise his hand to activate the preta path, if he can't see Dan then he can't raise his hand. Note: he nor any of the kage didn't see dan possess tsunade.
      • The chakra should be absorbable but the actual gold dust would remain which would still be a hindrance.

      He doesnt need the gedo mazo to control them. He has Sharingan. Not sure where you get the idea that he doesnt have Limbo clones while Edo.

      Don't overestimate Madara more than you already are. The sharingan pfft. Not sure where you get the idea that he can use limbo clones while edo.

      Big whoop. Perfecr Susanoo falls. Still an inpenetrable defense even if its nit standing upright. Also it flies.

      Impenetrable? so that's the assumption you were under lmao. Laughs in jinton. Lava techs etc.

      Because that worked so well when Naruto and Gai and Kakashi and the 5 Kage tried it.

      They're not the same people....

      Tell that to Sasuke and Sarada... And Madara

      Hiden techniques can be copied since anyone can learn them if they had a teacher. KKG, Summons, item specific jutsu and sage mode stuff cant be copied.

      Sasuke copied taijutsu. Filler Sarada. Madara?. They can't be performed through simple observation, you're making Madara into a greater thief than he is.

      • Here's how it's gonna go down, Mu launches and maintains jinton at madara, he'd naturally absorb it. This would now leave him vulnerable to other attacks, he'd be preoccupied with absorbing a continuous stream of jinton, Itachi can waltz behind him with the totsuka and stab him in the ass, if he chooses to deactivates the preta path to dodge, Jinton will erase him leaving him vulnerable to be sealed still. And that's just two members of the edo army being utilized.
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    • Lol, when did this thread derail into all edos vs edo Madara?

      @LegionZero

      I think a large part of why Madara used all those taxing wood release and rinnegan jutsus was due to him being an edo. Notice when he was brought back to life, he didn't use any wood release, including clones or Tengai Shinsei.

      @CyberianGinseng

      Plot-wise it was probably decided for Itachi to leak information about the Akatsuki, rather than to develop plans to take each of them down. Although I agree, 8 years is a long time to only try and deal with Tobi.

      @Jason

      When the five Kage launched their final attack at edo Madara, Madara shrugged off Ohnoki's dust release with PS.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      He didn't had the rinnegan when he attacked MU..saying Madara can tank jinton is abosolute wank, you think Madara would've even survived against the kages with his own powers whilst being alive? hell no.

      MY GUY! Madara fought Mu and Onoki at the same time and won XD what are on? And he didnt even go all out either because Onoki was dumbfounded at the sight of Madar's perfect Susanoo.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Ik, but it just signifies how weak they are to need it in the first place :D

      Right. Even though Madara was the 2nd strongest ninja by a slim margin before 6 paths characters got involved.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Simply because the bijju is also replicated when the clones is being created. Erm that's not how it works, they spawn will less reserves and stay with that...

      Not when Edo Tensei refills chakra.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Point still remains. Edo hashirama literally defeated Edo rinnegan Madara....

      If we add Hashirama then sure, but if we are just talking about Kabuto's army+the alliance Madara wins.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      As shown visual genjutsu differs from audio genjutsu, if tayuya was using visual genjutsu i wouldn't have even considered her. CS2 Tayuya + Ay + Itachi = Defeated Madara

      Other than the initiation method, audio and visual genjutsu work the same. Part 1 Shikamaru as a fresh ass chunin broke Tayuya's genkutsu by breaking his finger. Madara, like Itachi, will instantly tell he is in a genjutsu and break it or worse.

      The only time any genjutsu worked against a Uchiha Sharingan user was Sage mode Kabuto.

      Raikage cant break Perfect Susanoo. He can barely take on the Susanoo with "skin"

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Can't do any of that if you're being soloed by Tayuya's genjutsu

      Tayuya is insignificant against Madara. she is among the weakest enemies for him to face off against.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Pointless attack on an army of immortals. Madara remains dumb

      It buys him time while Edo's regenerate

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Would he even have the chance to do any of that? everyone would be on his ass bitchslapping him.

      Wasnt a problem aganst the 5 Kage

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Cough* ik that, hard to make contact when your head keeps falling off with multiple attacks.

      Hard to make contact when every opponant is matched 1 for 1 by clones. Hard to make contact when the enemy is in a perfect Susanoo taller than mountains and can fly.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • He needs to raise his hand to activate the preta path, if he can't see Dan then he can't raise his hand. Note: he nor any of the kage didn't see dan possess tsunade.

      Sharingan can see chakra. Rinnegan can see chakra and alternate planes of existence. Madara can see him.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • The chakra should be absorbable but the actual gold dust would remain which would still be a hindrance.

      Against perfect Susanoo? Riiggghhhttt.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Don't overestimate Madara more than you already are. The sharingan pfft.

      Yes, the Sharingan that he once used to take control of full Kyuubi and than a much weaker Obito used to control full Kyuubi. The Sharingan that Obito used to put a perfect Junchuriki under his control

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Not sure where you get the idea that he can use limbo clones while edo.

      The fact that the only ability stated or shown to not be usable due to Edo is summoning the Gedo Mazo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Impenetrable? so that's the assumption you were under lmao. Laughs in jinton.

      Fair. Except jinton didnt help when perf Susanoo was unleashed against the 5 Kage so whats your point?

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Lava techs etc.

      Because Lava release worked so well when the 5 Kage were anihalted be Perfect Susanoo.

      Not sure what "etc." You are talking about because these techniques were shown effective against a "skin" Susanoo while Madara was holding back.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Sasuke copied taijutsu.

      Still copied a technique.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Filler Sarada. Madara?

      Not sure what you mean by Filler.the Boruto anime and manga are telling 2 seperate parts of the same story. They are both canon

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      They can't be performed through simple observation, you're making Madara into a greater thief than he is.

      Kakashi made a career out of this. We saw it happen with him, Sasuke, and Sarada.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Here's how it's gonna go down, Mu launches and maintains jinton at madara, he'd naturally absorb it.

      Yes he would, if we assume Madara isnt in the Perfect Susanoo. But even then this is where your scenerio falls apart because. Given the circumstances he would most likely use a clone to do it. Leaving his real body or other clones to remain on the offensive or strategize(this is a tactic he actually used in the manga). Or he could also just substitute out with a clone and then

      • Fall back while leaving a clone to distract everyone while he prepare Shingai Tensei. While the Edo are all recovering he restrains them with Wood Release or chakra recievers.
      • Or he could sneak around Genjutsu controling all the heavy hitters and turning them against the rest of the Edo. Once he has Shukkaku he can start sealing people left and right
      • Or chibaku Tensei to reduce the numbers to only those who can break out which is a small number of characters.

      Why dont you start of with something that actually forces Madara out of the Perfect Susanoo for starters.

      Ninja Of War wrote: Lol, when did this thread derail into all edos vs edo Madara?

      @LegionZero

      I think a large part of why Madara used all those taxing wood release and rinnegan jutsus was due to him being an edo. Notice when he was brought back to life, he didn't use any wood release, including clones or Tengai Shinsei.

      In all fairness, he didnt need them at that point and he couldnt risk killing the bijuu at the time.

      CyberianGinseng wrote:

      How long was Itachi a part of Akatsuki before he died? Wasn't it about 8 years? You mean to tell me Itachi, the super ninja, couldn't get access to Gedo Mazo in 8 years?!? We saw Sasori and Deidara physically present in the room alone with Gedo Mazo during the save Gaara arc. Yet Itachi, the super spy, couldn't finagle that much? Without Gedo Mazo, they couldn't seal the tailed beasts. The whole plan takes a major hit. According to some folks, Itachi could've easily taken care of Gedo Mazo. It's criminal that he didn't do it. He needs to have his corpse dug up and bitch slapped for that alone.

      What exactly can Itachi do to the Gedo Mazo. IIRC the only thing that can be done to or with it requires Rinnegan.

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    • @Legion

      Before Madara got his rinnegan back, wood release would have been perfect to restrain the bijuu. Kakashi used Kamui successfully on the gedo statue tho.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: When the five Kage launched their final attack at edo Madara, Madara shrugged off Ohnoki's dust release with PS.

      No. [1] He wasn't even in it's range.

      LegionZero wrote: MY GUY! Madara fought Mu and Onoki at the same time and won XD what are on? And he didnt even go all out either because Onoki was dumbfounded at the sight of Madar's perfect Susanoo.

      Like i said, Madara can't tank a jinton, Mu was in his own village so he heeded Madara's threat and let him walk without fighting in order not to cause harm to the village.

      Right. Even though Madara was the 2nd strongest ninja by a slim margin before 6 paths characters got involved.

      MS Madara? Second strongest? LOL.

      Not when Edo Tensei refills chakra.

      It does that but not expand reserves as you suggested.

      • Other than the initiation method, audio and visual genjutsu work the same. Part 1 Shikamaru as a fresh ass chunin broke Tayuya's genkutsu by breaking his finger. Madara, like Itachi, will instantly tell he is in a genjutsu and break it or worse.
      • Raikage cant break Perfect Susanoo. He can barely take on the Susanoo with "skin"
      • Never said he can't break it, just said it'll buy enough time for them to finish him
      • If you read again, you'll see i never said he could.

      Wasnt a problem aganst the 5 Kage

      They were mortals fighting an immortal thief.

      Hard to make contact when every opponant is matched 1 for 1 by clones. Hard to make contact when the enemy is in a perfect Susanoo taller than mountains and can fly.

      The army can make clones as well and with Yagura's ninjutsu he can run around and can turn Madara's clones against themselves. Susanoo isn't relevant in a taijutsu argument.

      Sharingan can see chakra. Rinnegan can see chakra and alternate planes of existence. Madara can see him.

      Based on his dialogue then, he didn't notice.

      Against perfect Susanoo? Riiggghhhttt.

      Why do you keep bringing up Perfect Susanoo? he can't use susanoo when using the preta path, at-least shown, you should know that atleast.

      Yes, the Sharingan that he once used to take control of full Kyuubi and than a much weaker Obito used to control full Kyuubi. The Sharingan that Obito used to put a perfect Junchuriki under his control

      Only Sasuke visual genjusued multiple bijju, Madara has already stolen powers don't give him stolen feats now.

      The fact that the only ability stated or shown to not be usable due to Edo is summoning the Gedo Mazo

      He only performed it after he came alive, that should say something.

      Fair. Except jinton didnt help when perf Susanoo was unleashed against the 5 Kage so whats your point?

      Ohnoki was out of chakra, and it didn't make contact with the susanoo anyways. [2]

      Yes he would, if we assume Madara isnt in the Perfect Susanoo. Given the circumstances he would most likely use a clone to do it. Leaving his real body or other clones to remain on the offensive or strategize(this is a tactic he actually used in the manga). Or he could also just substitute out with a clone  and then Fall back while leaving a clone to distract everyone while he prepare Shingai Tensei. While the Edo are all recovering he restrains them with Wood Release or chakra recievers.Or he could sneak around Genjutsu controling all the heavy hitters and turning them against the rest of the Edo. Once he has Shukkaku he can start sealing people left and right .Or chibaku Tensei to reduce the numbers to only those who can break out which is a small number of characters.
      
      • Clone never shown to use PS
      • Whenever the real body appears they can simply replicate the same plan, because it's so flawless there is no going around it. Even if he's in PS, Jinton will just snap the legs and susanoo disspates, Madara is left falling, Mu repeats jinton, in that moment he absorbs,that's when Itachi strikes.
      • Sneaking around and genjutsuing people? can you be real?
      • Shukaku wasn't among the edo army lol..
      • I already showed how the army can handle CT.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      No. [1] He wasn't even in it's range.

      And in the next chapter he started mercing all of them and Onoki clearly didnt succed in using Jinton to destroy the Susanoo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Like i said, Madara can't tank a jinton, Mu was in his own village so he heeded Madara's threat and let him walk without fighting in order not to cause harm to the village.

      Madara was threatening to destory their village, not warning tgem about destroying the entire thing. You talk about Jinton soloing Perf Susanoo but 2 Jinton users couldnt beat him when he didnt even use it.

      Madara doesnt have to tank it. He can easily avoid it. And judging by the fact that he offscreened all 5 of the Kage. Jinton isnt as big an advantage as you make it out to be

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      MS Madara? Second strongest? LOL.

      Do please change which Madara i have been referencing to to suit your stance.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      It does that but not expand reserves as you suggested.

      Expanding it has nothing to do with anything in this convo. If you are going to grasp at straws, grasp and legitimate one

      Edo Madara has a large supply of chakra and it constantly refills.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Never said he can't break it, just said it'll buy enough time for them to finish him
      • If you read again, you'll see i never said he could.

      I shouldnt even dignify the idea that Tayuya solos Madara with genjutsu with a response anymore.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      They were mortals fighting an immortal thief.

      Ive never seen anyone so butthurt about an expanded arsenal before

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      The army can make clones as well

      Not ones that can do battle with perfect Susanoo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      and with Yagura's ninjutsu he can run around and can turn Madara's clones against themselves.

      Yagura is gonna stop an army with his one mirror jutsu that will work once because Madara wont fall for it twice

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Susanoo isn't relevant in a taijutsu argument.

      It does when it makes taijutsu a non-option.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Based on his dialogue then, he didn't notice.

      Choza could see him so clearly it doesnt make him invisible. Tsunade and Dan talked inside her mind. Nothing indicates that he couldnt see Dan

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Why do you keep bringing up Perfect Susanoo? he can't use susanoo when using the preta path, at-least shown, you should know that atleast.

      A clone can.

      Nothing stops him from having a clone in Susanoo with him to incercept attacks or vice versa. All the while he can keep making clones with that absorbed chakra

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Only Sasuke visual genjusued multiple bijju, Madara has already stolen powers don't give him stolen feats now.

      What stops him controlling multiple bijuu? Oh right nothing. 6 of the other bijuu combined are weaker than Kurama so controling them wouldnt be a problem. I guess you could argue he couldnt do them all at once but even if he has to take control one by one it shouldnt be a problem.

      Obito took control of Kurama while having Yagura and Isobu under his control and Madara beats him out in skill, experience, and power

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      He only performed it after he came alive, that should say something.

      And only like 500 times did he say he wasnt going all out.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Ohnoki was out of chakra, and it didn't make contact with the susanoo anyways. [2]

      If it did work, the 5 kage would have won. Tsunade could have given more chakra for it

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Clone never shown to use PS

      You can keep saying that but shadow clones and wood clones have been shown to do whatever the original user can do.

      There is no evidence supporting the notion that shadow or wood clones are incapable of doing anything the user is capable of doing.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Whenever the real body appears they can simply replicate the same plan, because it's so flawless there is no going around it. Even if he's in PS, Jinton will just snap the legs and susanoo disspates, Madara is left falling, Mu repeats jinton, in that moment he absorbs,that's when Itachi strikes.

      Like i said earlier, if Jinton was that effective against PS. The 5 Kage wouldnt have lost.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Sneaking around and genjutsuing people? can you be real?

      I am. He can do it. Just because utter anihilition is his first tactic doesnt mean this isnt a viable option. He forced the Raikage to do it and he can be stealth if he wants to. Its way more likely than being solo'ed by Tayuya.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Shukaku wasn't among the edo army lol..

      Right. Sorry, he already had captured him so he can start off the fight sealing away Edo's with Shukkaku's power.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • I already showed how the army can handle CT.

      Yea... just because Nagato stood by and let it 3 people stop it doesnt mean Madara will. While they are attempting that Susanoo and Deep Forest Emergence could be coming after them along with possibly multiple.

      Not only that but there are really only a handful of ninja with the destructive capability to destroy it and Madara/Obito would have most of them in this scenerio.

      They also most likely wont attempt to destroy it CT if Madara makes living characters like each of the Kage the core.

      Ninja Of War wrote:

      Before Madara got his rinnegan back, wood release would have been perfect to restrain the bijuu.

      Would have, but he didnt need it.

      Ninja Of War wrote:

      Kakashi used Kamui successfully on the gedo statue tho.

      Fair. But Itachi doesnt have that and IIRC it didnt even work that well and Kakashi was amped by Kyuubi chakra

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    • @Jason

      Your link doesn't show the final attack tho. The end of chapter 588 shows edo Madara being restrained close to the Dust style. Then when he uses un-stabilized PS, he is suddenly further away. So, it's probably an inconsistency, but either way, Ohnoki and Mu not using dust style on PS and Susanoo doesn't bode well on it's effectiveness. Though I agree Ohnoki was out of chakra.

      @Legion

      Kakashi mentioned he didn't complete his attack though. @Cyberian said something similar to Itachi not using TB on the Gedo statue when/if he had the chance. And I have to agree, if Itachi knew he could seal the statue, why didn't he try?

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    • PLOT. Here we go again, you two jumping on Jason, ignoring his valid points(sorry jason but some of your points aren't valid..) and then "And I have to agree, if Itachi knew he could seal the statue, why didn't he try? " what kind of question is this?? PLOT IS THE ANSWER. This is why I have been sitting back and watching these threads for a bit because you bunch are horrible people and Jason if you're going to argue make sure you keep consistent with valid points because even ONE invalid point and these people will try to act like that means everything you said was wrong.

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    • Keep insults out of the forums.

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    • FlatZone wrote: PLOT. Here we go again, you two jumping on Jason, ignoring his valid points(sorry jason but some of your points aren't valid..) and then "And I have to agree, if Itachi knew he could seal the statue, why didn't he try? " what kind of question is this?? PLOT IS THE ANSWER. This is why I have been sitting back and watching these threads for a bit because you bunch are horrible people and Jason if you're going to argue make sure you keep consistent with valid points because even ONE invalid point and these people will try to act like that means everything you said was wrong.

      Jumping on Jason? Because most people disagree with him?

      Wouldnt TB's target have to have consiousness and chakra? The Gedo doesnt have those so i dont think it would work.

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    • LegionZero wrote:

      Wouldnt TB's target have to have consiousness and chakra? The Gedo doesnt have those so i dont think it would work.

      Well, from the description of "genjutsu-like world of drunken dreams". One can infer that the target has to be conscious. Then again, descriptions aren't the be and end all as like @Squinty mentioned, then nothing would be able to pierce Gaara's defense. Do you think that the "revived" juubi meets that criteria?

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    • FlatZone wrote: He didn't even know the location of the Gedo if he knew it existed anyway, the Mountains Graveyard wasn't the Akatsuki home base, slim. You hate Itachi the manga character, kind of weird and neck beardish to hate an anime character lol

      So Deidara and Sasori managed to get in the same room as the Gedo that we see them standing on top of in chapter 254, but Itachi couldn't even manage this in 8 years despite having a cheat code called genjutsu embedded in his eyeballs?

      Itachi's a good character. I like him a lot. Itachi fans are the problem. Weird and neck beardish, now that's a good description of them.

      LegionZero wrote: What exactly can Itachi do to the Gedo Mazo. IIRC the only thing that can be done to or with it requires Rinnegan.

      I'm not the one who made the claim that Itachi could do anything to the Gedo or the Juubi. Someone else made that claim. I'm simply saying that if he has the capability to seal the Juubi then he could've and should've done so at any time during the 8 years or whatever he was with Akatsuki. To not have done so is criminal. People claiming Gedo Mazo is somehow different than the Juubi are simply wrong. The only difference between them is that the statue has been separated from the majority of its chakra.

      Chapter 602 indicates that it still has plenty of chakra. Madara indicates that's what's been keeping him alive. The beast is still conscious as much as the Juubi is. It even behaves the same way that the Juubi does once it's been summoned and released, just like a ravenous beast. We see so in chapter 447. It's summoned. It growls like an animal. And it proceeds to @$$ jack all the chakra in the surrounding area.

      Whatever is capable of sealing the Juubi would also be capable of sealing Gedo Mazo. If you have this capability there's no excuse not to do so. Itachi failed to do so.

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    • The room that it was located in for the meetings was in a separate hideout, the Gedo when unattended is at the Mountains Geaveyard resting on the flower. If Itachi was going to try anything at all it would be there and when nobody was there and thats IF he knew where that was. Nobody but Oro, Kabuto, Zetsu and Obito knew where that place was. Nagato just summoned it to the other hideouts when sealing tailed beasts. Also, for the last time.. you want to know what the answer to your neckbeard rants are?? PLOT. Itachi didn't do any of that because of plot. Simple answer for ya kiddo.

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    • FlatZone wrote: PLOT. Itachi didn't do any of that because of plot. Simple answer for ya kiddo.

      That's an excuse and can be a way to just explain away anything without consequence

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    • FlatZone wrote: The room that it was located in for the meetings was in a separate hideout, the Gedo when unattended is at the Mountains Geaveyard resting on the flower. If Itachi was going to try anything at all it would be there and when nobody was there and thats IF he knew where that was. Nobody but Oro, Kabuto, Zetsu and Obito knew where that place was. Nagato just summoned it to the other hideouts when sealing tailed beasts. Also, for the last time.. you want to know what the answer to your neckbeard rants are?? PLOT. Itachi didn't do any of that because of plot. Simple answer for ya kiddo.

      He didn't need to know where any such place was. Pain regularly summoned Gedo Mazo to wherever they needed when they sealed a tailed beast. That's several chances at least to show up in person and seal the statue. Yet I'm expected to believe that Itachi never once ended up in a room with Gedo Mazo? Or as you now claim, I'm expected to believe the invincible Itachi Uchiha is scared to act when there are others in the room? What are they gonna do?! He couldn't escape afterwards?! Take Gedo off the board and it's game over. It doesn't matter what happens after that. A super spy would fulfill the mission regardless of the fallout afterwards. It takes a split second to summon Susanoo and seal the statue by your logic. Why wait?!?

      If he's too petrified to do that, Itachi can genjutsu information out of anybody. He couldn't find out where Gedo Mazo was? Kabuto tracked Obito down to his hideout with Gedo Mazo sitting in the basement. Kabuto is a much better spy than Itachi, the super spy?!? Really?!? Apparently so. Either that or Pain was so much better at hiding than Obito, the smell ya later, vanishing, space-time master. Neither of those conclusions are even remotely plausible.

      Plot's one answer. Another is incompetence. Either one works.

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    • @Cyberian... No single akatsuki member can defeat all the others combined.

      @Squinty.. It's not much of an excuse if it really happened. The character doesn't move on it's own, he was orchestrated to follow the plot which is what we have now, though there are different ways the mangaka can take for his story. If Itachi had sealed the mazo that would've been it for the story. If Minato had chopped Obito's head off instead of using contract seal that would've been it for the story. If Konan had crushed the rinnegan that would been it etc.

      @Ninja...

      • [1] [2] it clearly didn't tank it so.
      • Mu never faced PS, Ohnoki was drained when PS came.

      @Legion.. Clearly you have a boner for Madara but the amount of headcanon you're using is too much to deal with. The reality of the situation is Madara doesn't fight the way you're describing. And as proven, plus something you've failed to properly disprove, is he can't simply beat MU + Itachi combo.

      • The Particle style negates everything he throws at it, only choice is the preta path.
        • He uses the preta path, but won't be able to stop Itachi from stabbing him. He may have fooled the Kages with his wood clone shenanigan but won't fool an adept MS user + a skilled sensor.
      • Scenario B: He see's Itachi coming to stab him, so he decides to activate PS to evade, but sadly the moment he releases the preta path ability the jinton will go straight through him leaving him even vulnerable to be sealed. gg.
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    • lmao Cyberian, where did Itachi hurt you?? Point it out on your doll.

      and Squinty, you of all people know that line of reasoning is bullshit. Itachi is not the main character and the Gedo Mazo is too important to the story, PLOT demands that Itachi would have never even tried it

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    • @Cyberian

      Without the Gedo Statue, all of the Akatsuki's and Obito's plans fall apart, so it does lead to the question to why Itachi didn't attempt to get rid of it. I acknowledged plot in my initial response, yet plot does not explain a lack of attempt. So good question on your part.


      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      @Ninja...

      • [1] [2] it clearly didn't tank it so.
      • Mu never faced PS, Ohnoki was drained when PS came.

      That's why I mentioned the change in distance, between Madara and the dust style. In Mu's case I meant back in the past when Madara threatened both Ohnoki and him, and then Madara used Susanoo.

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    • That's why I mentioned the change in distance, between Madara and the dust style. In Mu's case I meant back in the past when Madara threatened both Ohnoki and him, and then Madara used Susanoo.

      Are you still saying PS can tank it based on Mu NOT using it? lmao. That's garbage logic dude, given alot of things.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Are you still saying PS can tank it based on Mu NOT using it? lmao. That's garbage logic dude, given alot of things.

      Lol, nice strawman. Didn't say PS can tank it.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Ohnoki and Mu not using dust style on PS and Susanoo doesn't bode well on it's effectiveness.

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    • @Jason

      Yeah, Ohnoki--> PS and Mu--> Susanoo. Effectiveness doesn't mean tanking.

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    • Why not Mu >> PS, it's the same jinton...

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Why not Mu >> PS, it's the same jinton...

      Because Mu didn't face PS...

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Because Mu didn't face PS...

      Neither did Ohnoki yet you stated Ohnoki >> PS. Also the attack potency of jinton doesn't differ between users, Mu and Ohnoki clashing their jinton is proof of that, so if you're claiming Ohnoki's Jinton >> PS, then Mu >> PS.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Neither did Ohnoki yet you stated Ohnoki >> PS. Also the attack potency of jinton doesn't differ between users, Mu and Ohnoki clashing their jinton is proof of that, so if you're claiming Ohnoki's Jinton >> PS, then Mu >> PS.

      I realize now that the intended meaning of "-->", was not conveyed. I agree it's the same dust style. Effectiveness was my main point.

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    • FlatZone wrote: and Squinty, you of all people know that line of reasoning is bullshit. Itachi is not the main character and the Gedo Mazo is too important to the story, PLOT demands that Itachi would have never even tried it

      No, the idea that you can explain away anything by saying "plot" when the series is showing Itachi as less capable than what you wished (despite him already being massively capable anyways), that's the bull right there.

      Itachi never tried, and one of the reasons he may have never tried is because he knew he couldn't.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      @Legion.. Clearly you have a boner for Madara but the amount of headcanon you're using is too much to deal with.

      Thats rich considering you think Tayuya solos Madara via genjutsu.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      The reality of the situation is Madara doesn't fight the way you're describing.

      Wood clone fakeouts and using wood clones to fight for him? Yes. He does. And he did.

      You also act like he doesnt or cant change tactics based on the situation. He did once try to suffocate the Kage by burning the forest around them

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      And as proven, plus something you've failed to properly disprove, is he can't simply beat MU + Itachi combo.

      • The Particle style negates everything he throws at it, only choice is the preta path.

      Only choice? Because dodging it is impossible? Or misdirection with a clone? Madara solo'ed Mu and Onoki and he didnt have the Rinnegan. You wanna keep ignoring that though since it suits your argument that Particle Style>everything

      Particle style did dick all against Perf Susanoo.

      If it truly negated anything thrown at it. The 5 Kage would have beaten Madara, but they were giving thair all when Madara was toying with them.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

        • He uses the preta path, but won't be able to stop Itachi from stabbing him.

      Wood clone fake out

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      He may have fooled the Kages with his wood clone shenanigan but won't fool an adept MS user + a skilled sensor.

      Madara Uchiha was the only ninja alive capable of telling wood/shadow clones apart from the caster. Itachi doesnt have this kind of feat.

      Sensors are the only legit counter to that, IF they can tell the difference

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Scenario B: He see's Itachi coming to stab him, so he decides to activate PS to evade, but sadly the moment he releases the preta path ability the jinton will go straight through him leaving him even vulnerable to be sealed. gg.

      Wood clone faints and multi wood clone Susanoo and/or wood clones for support/defense while he dispatches of particle style users.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Neither did Ohnoki yet you stated Ohnoki >> PS.

      He did. With the assistance of 4 other Kage

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: @Cyberian... No single akatsuki member can defeat all the others combined.

      Why would he have to?

      Pain summons the statue to nearest safe location of whoever's captured a jinchuuriki. Those two are the only Akatsuki physically present at that location. That's exactly what we see when Sasori and Deidara kidnap Gaara. They are the only ones physically present. The only one Itachi was going to have to fight was Kisame. How is he going to stop Itachi from sealing Gedo Mazo and then hauling @$$?

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    • Again, the story would end right there literally lol how is this hard to comprehend?? For plot reasons NOBODY would have even attempted to deal with that thing there let alone Itachi. This is some dcuniverse conspiracy type shit ya'll need to take a break from the internet xD

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    • LegionZero wrote: Only choice? Because dodging it is impossible? Or misdirection with a clone? Madara solo'ed Mu and Onoki and he didnt have the Rinnegan. You wanna keep ignoring that though since it suits your argument that Particle Style>everything.

      Show me Madara soloing Mu and Ohnoki, Show me Mu and Ohnoki fighting back. Show me the age of Ohnoki. And like i said, the clone bs wouldn't work with a sensor there. He can't exactly dodge it in midair, this plan would be initiated after he launches PS, which makes using clones an impossibility cuz Ay will cut down any clone interfering with the plan.

      • Things that can negate it >> Particle style >>Everything. Sadly PS isn't one.

      If it truly negated anything thrown at it

      State things it can't negate which are in Madara's arsenal.

      Wood clone fake out

      • LegionZero wrote:

      Sensors are the only legit counter to that, IF they can tell the difference

        • Don't need the difference just need to know that there aren't any cheap moves in play, when Mu detects this he creates a clone and Jinton's it's ass out of hiding.

      Madara Uchiha was the only ninja alive capable of telling wood/shadow clones apart from the caster. Itachi doesn't have this kind of feat.

      If you read again you'll see I never said he does.

      Wood clone faints and multi wood clone Susanoo and/or wood clones for support/defense while he dispatches of particle style users.

      Don't worry they literally have an army for those, whilst Itachi and Mu is taking care of the original. A single bijju dama solo those.

      CyberianGinseng wrote: Why would he have to?

      What would happen post-sealing? he'd have to face them eventually as Akatsuki's last mission might be to track and kill Itachi.

      • Now as FlatZone said the story would end right there also, since the Mazo is important to the plot.
      • Also there is the possibility that Pein can just de-summon the Gedo Mazo after it got stabbed. But then there is also the use of amaterasu which will remain after it had been de-summoned which brings us back to 'he can't take on all the akatsuki members' and his plans for sasuke would be foiled.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Show me Madara soloing Mu and Ohnoki, Show me Mu and Ohnoki fighting back.

      Chapter: 589 Onoki asked why Madara held back years ago and there are a couple of flashback panels of Mu and Onoki defeated by Madara

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      And like i said, the clone bs wouldn't work with a sensor there.

      Werent sensors monitoring the battlefield that werent of much help to the Kage? Sensors wont stop the clones from you know, fighting and serving as distractions

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      He can't exactly dodge it in midair, this plan would be initiated after he launches PS

      Many characters can and have dodged in midair. PS is mobile and there isnt a Dust user shown capable of launching an attack big enough attack to take out an entire Perf Susanoo. Even if there was would he even let them? Swings from that blade knock people all over the place (as seen when Madara swung its sword) and Onoki/Mu need time to prepare the jutsu.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      which makes using clones an impossibility cuz Ay will cut down any clone interfering with the plan.

      You mean like he did when he and the 5 Kade made a plan to seal Madara... oh. Wait. Tried that. Didnt work out. He wasnt fast enough to blindside Madara and he isnt strong enough to break through ribcage Susanoo, the lowest possible level. He couldnt even break Sasuke's ribcage Susanoo IIRC

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Things that can negate it >> Particle style >>Everything. Sadly PS isn't one.

      The entire volume of Madara vs the Kage disagrees.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      State things it can't negate which are in Madara's arsenal.

      Preta Path. Genjutsu. Tactics.

      You are stuck on this loop where nothing beats coming in contact with particle style and you keep missing the point where nothing has to come into contact with it to counter it. Defensive/evasive maneuvers/techniques are an equally viable counters

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

        • Don't need the difference just need to know that there aren't any cheap moves in play, when Mu detects this he creates a clone and Jinton's it's ass out of hiding.

      Lets say he doesnt hide then. Lets say he just makes 25 wood clones like he did in the manga. What does Mu do then? He cant take them all out at once. And they plow through just about everyone else.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      If you read again you'll see I never said he does.

      You didnt say it, you just heavily implied it as a response to the specific scenario:

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

        • He uses the preta path, but won't be able to stop Itachi from stabbing him. He may have fooled the Kages with his wood clone shenanigan but won't fool an adept MS user + a skilled sensor.


      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Don't worry they literally have an army for those, whilst Itachi and Mu is taking care of the original. A single bijju dama solo those.

      One Madara merced basically a whole division of said army. Most characters dont have the destructive capability to take out Susanoo.

      Since when do Bijuudama solo Madara's Susanoo

      You also seem to forget that the Preta Path is a 360 absorption shield. Of he is absorbing Dust release he is absorbing whatever Itachi tries to hit him with super charging him so he can spam Wood clones, wood justu, and other Rinnegan powers and Susanoo

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    • @Legion:

      • You answered 1 of 3 questions only but anyways the point i was trying to make is they didn't fight back, we saw nothing of the fight except Madara using susanoo.
      • Those sensors were chasing Mu and weren't relaying intel to the kages.
      • Oh yeah, list someone who are on the same level who canonically dodged an attack of this speed in Mid air.
      • This is the third raikage Ay, he has more penetrative power with his hellstab than the fourth. With that he was able to pierce his own body which was regarded as the strongest shield.
      • Jinton was compared to the truthseeker orbs, so wank the PS more. Jinton> ps.
      • Jinton erases physical things, therefore listing genjutsu would be a no brainer nice one.
      • Remember MU is not alone, the 2nd Mizukage, the 4th Mizukage all are formidable foes, enough to beat clones lol. Rasa can literally crush them with a sand tsunami 10x over.
      • Like i said before, those were fodders madara fought when he came back, the edo army consists of high class shinobi's all with a unique arsenal. Kotoamatsuki all solos lmao.
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    • BTW, since we are restricting abilities on others based on what they didn't do. certain people can stop being hypocrites. Madara does not have Limbo Hengoku as an Edo Tensei as he never used it, not even once despite the multiple opportunities in BATTLE.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: What would happen post-sealing? he'd have to face them eventually as Akatsuki's last mission might be to track and kill Itachi.

      • Now as FlatZone said the story would end right there also, since the Mazo is important to the plot.
      • Also there is the possibility that Pein can just de-summon the Gedo Mazo after it got stabbed. But then there is also the use of amaterasu which will remain after it had been de-summoned which brings us back to 'he can't take on all the akatsuki members' and his plans for sasuke would be foiled.

      Orochimaru wasn't too scared of them. Neither were they able to capture him. Pretty sure Itachi is far stronger than Orochimaru. All he has to do is seal the statue and haul his @$$ out of there.

      That's the first rational objection I've heard. But then that means that space-time ninjutsu, which is what summoning is, is a counter to SoT. That brings in Kamui, Flying Thunder God, Summoning, etc. as counters to SoT. Suddenly the limitless sword ain't so limitless. (I'm not claiming it's limitless, but folks in this thread are.)

      Lets not assume all that. Lets instead ask why Kabuto didn't summon Nagato away from Itachi's clutches. He had time. Why wasn't he able to do so? You could say he couldn't, because SoT had a hold to him, or, you can just shout "PLOT! PLOT! PLOT!" at the top of your lungs till you're in respiratory distress. Either works just fine.

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    • If itachi seals the statue there is no story left. The author made it this way not itachi

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    • Kuzan Uchiha wrote: If itachi seals the statue there is no story left. The author made it this way not itachi

      Oooor it's simply because he can't.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Oooor it's simply because he can't.

      How?

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    • Kuzan Uchiha wrote: How?

      Squinty97 wrote: Itachi never tried, and one of the reasons he may have never tried is because he knew he couldn't

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Kuzan Uchiha wrote: How?

      Squinty97 wrote: Itachi never tried, and one of the reasons he may have never tried is because he knew he couldn't

      Haha, Itachi never tried because he was never planned to try by kishimoto.

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    • They don't care about that, plot only matters to them when its convenient to them

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      @Legion:

      • You answered 1 of 3 questions only but anyways the point i was trying to make is they didn't fight back, we saw nothing of the fight except Madara using susanoo.

      They were only crapping themselves in utter disbelief that an individual was that strong. What we saw was so much overwhelming power that the 5 Kage couldnt do anything to stand up to a single swing.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Oh yeah, list someone who are on the same level who canonically dodged an attack of this speed in Mid air.

      Considering Obito managed to jump in fornt of it at point blank range unseen it must not be as fast as you are hyping it to be. Mu also tried it on KCM1 Naruto and Madara was countering KCM2 Naruto

      Obito also dodged a chakra fist from Naruto midair

      Either way, Madara has the Asura Path. Jet feet.

      And honestly, what stops Madara from moving out of the way with Susanoo? Not like it cant move. And fly.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • This is the third raikage Ay, he has more penetrative power with his hellstab than the fourth. With that he was able to pierce his own body which was regarded as the strongest shield.

      Preta Path to absorb Hell Stab and the shield and wood style to supress his chakra and keep him pinned down. Genjutsu to keep him outcold

      Or genjutsu right off the bat and wood style to keep him down

      Or keep him down with a chakra reciever

      Or take control of him with a reciever

      He can probably start turning them 1 by 1

      Or he can write a new seal and take complete control considering Madara knows the secrets of Edo Tensei.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Jinton was compared to the truthseeker orbs, so wank the PS more. Jinton> ps.

      Rasengan is compared to Bijuudama. Being comparable doesnt put them on the same level.

      Wank Jinton. It didnt stop Madara or his Perf Susanoo

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Jinton erases physical things, therefore listing genjutsu would be a no brainer nice one.

      If touching it and surviving is your criteria for a counter: Uchiha Return

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Remember MU is not alone, the 2nd Mizukage,

      Didnt the 2nd Mizukage die fighting Mu, who Madara beat while fighting Onoki while holding back? So strong.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      the 4th Mizukage all are formidable foes, enough to beat clones lol.

      As a jinchuriki maybe. Madara and Obito had the Tailed Beasts at the time

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Rasa can literally crush them with a sand tsunami 10x over.

      Wasnt Gaara stronger than him and he couldnt take Madara with the assistance of the other 4 other Kage? Does he have the power to flood mountain ranges? Because if he doesnt then Perfect Susanoo and Chibaku Tensei and maybe Deep Forest Emergeance

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Like i said before, those were fodders madara fought when he came back, the edo army consists of high class shinobi's all with a unique arsenal.

      Madara has taken on and beaten almost all of them. Or stronger characters with the same abilities and/or at the same time.

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    • Kuzan Uchiha wrote: Haha, Itachi never tried because he was never planned to try by kishimoto.

      Oooorrrr it's because Kishi didn't plan on giving Itachi the SoT until the fight. See? I can make up completely baseless speculation too

      FlatZone wrote: They don't care about that, plot only matters to them when its convenient to them

      Everything is because of plot, including Itachi's prowess. Should we ignore that too? No, because it's a terrible argument. Until Kishi himself say that so and so didn't happen because he didn't want the conflict to end there, bringing up the plot is moot.

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    • Ok then, then Madara didn't have Limbo as a Edo, and he couldn't make more than 25 Wood Clones and the wood clones couldn't make their Susanoo go further than what they showed and nothing changes that. If you say different then you're just a hypocrite

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    • FlatZone wrote: Ok then, then Madara didn't have Limbo as a Edo, and he couldn't make more than 25 Wood Clones and the wood clones couldn't make their Susanoo go further than what they showed and nothing changes that. If you say different then you're just a hypocrite

      Welp, it's a good thing I didn't say different. In fact, didn't you kudos this post I made in response to LegionZero?

      Slow your roll. It's a stretch to say that he can make 100+ Wood Clones each use PS

      Oh wait, you have. I strive not to cut against my own points.

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    • Hm I seemed to have got you two switched on that argument

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    • @UltimaDude

      Good job. The entertainment continues, hope you are enjoying it as much as I am.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Ok it's time to be completely serious here, no more having fun here for now.

      Either the https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sword_of_Totsuka CAN seal the Juubi.

      Or https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Six_Paths_Ten-Tails_Coffin_Seal and https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Six_Paths_%E2%80%94_Chibaku_Tensei are literally the only things in existence PERIOD that can seal the Juubi. Now we can't reach a factual conclusion here.. so to end this on a good note I say that NOTHING except the Coffin Seal and SP Chibaku Tensei can seal the Juubi and as a general rule of thumb in these threads it should stay that way to avoid long pointless threads like this. That takes away nothing from the SoT itself, and just goes to show how exclusive the two other mentioned sealing techs are.

      You all seem to forgot this post. My later posts weren't about me disagreeing that the Juubi or Gezo couldn't be sealed in that fashion, they were disagreeing with hypocrites and people who are choosy with things being plot and not being plot where it helps their bs arguments. My POINT is that you all need to stop being hypocrites. Again, catch yourselves.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @UltimaDude

      Good job. The entertainment continues, hope you are enjoying it as much as I am.

      I'm honestly not.

      FlatZone wrote: You all seem to forgot this post. My later posts weren't about me disagreeing that the Juubi or Gezo couldn't be sealed in that fashion, they were disagreeing with hypocrites and people who are choosy with things being plot and not being plot where it helps their bs arguments. My POINT is that you all need to stop being hypocrites. Again, catch yourselves.

      The only thing to say about your post is that the TTCS and SPCT are the only things confirmed to be able to seal the Juubi. That's it. The only hypocrite I see is you. Point out these so-called hypocrites and actually address their arguments instead of ranting and dismissing points made.

      Again, catch yourselves

      Follow your own advice

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    • Jesus Christ kid what are you even arguing for anymore?? my post makes it more clear that I don't think the SoT can seal the Juubi. You are just being argumentative just to argue, I bet if I told you the sun was hot you would sit there and argue over it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Jesus Christ kid what are you even arguing for anymore?? my post makes it more clear that I don't think the SoT can seal the Juubi. You are just being argumentative just to argue, I bet if I told you the sun was hot you would sit there and argue over it.

      What are you even on about? You brought up the post seemingly wanted us to say something about it. I said something about it that is still in line with your overall point and then moved on to you how have conducted yourself in this thread (which is absolutely abysmal). I don't want to be called a kid by someone who is thin-skinned, can't handle opposing arguments, and outright goes on tirades. It seems that you are grandstanding, stop it.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Oooorrrr it's because Kishi didn't plan on giving Itachi the SoT until the fight. See? I can make up completely baseless speculation too

      Hahah Yes you can, but only you are speculating here. The existence of the manga without Itachi attempting to seal the statue is my proof, the author didn't want it to be so. You guys have a delusional type of logic here, Itachi is not in control the author is, so plot is the answer duh.

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    • Cyberian

      • So you're saying if the entire akatsuki went for Orochimaru they still won't succeed?
      • The point with Nagato is good, the blade did also negate Kabuto's control over Nagato, after the latter got stabbed he came back to his senses. You didn't reply to Amaterasu.
      • Your last line tells me that you don't agree with the 'plot' answer, which is sad because that's literally what it is.


      Legion

      • You're just strengthening my point on that they never fought. Jinton > Alive Ems/MS Madara whether you like it or not.
      • Obito is a kamui spammer, poor example. Nagato can use bansho tenin on Madara to pull him into jinton, then he'd again have no choice to absorb, then Itachi strikes.
      • I was totally using Ay and his hellstand against the susanoo clones, what you on about lol.
      • Niggu Ohnoki was drained and couldn't use jinton again, pretending like you don't know only gives you more things to reply to.
      • If Uchiha return really is your plan, he'd still get stabbed in the back by Itachi cuz he'd be occupied collecting and returning the attack
      • Madara didn't beat MU.
      • Erm Gaara was busy covering the other's assess, Rasa doesn't have to worry abt that here. He solos the clones with a sand tsunami.
      • Niggu Madara fought mortals with limited everything, these guys are nigh immortal like him.
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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: Cyberian

      • So you're saying if the entire akatsuki went for Orochimaru they still won't succeed?
      • The point with Nagato is good, the blade did also negate Kabuto's control over Nagato, after the latter got stabbed he came back to his senses. You didn't reply to Amaterasu.
      • Your last line tells me that you don't agree with the 'plot' answer, which is sad because that's literally what it is.

      I'm saying he was wanted by Akatsuki already. We have no idea how much effort they put into it. In any case, they didn't get him.

      In terms of Itachi, we saw when they sealed Gaara's bijuu that only two Akatsuki members were physically present. Those were the two that brought Gaara. The same is likely true whenever Itachi and Kisame brought a bijuu to seal. He had his opportunity. He would only have to deal with a limited number of Akatsuki at that time. He's quite capable of avoiding Akatsuki afterwards. This is not even a controversial statement.

      I'm not sure what you're asking about Amaterasu. I never said Itachi would use Amaterasu to get rid of Gedo Mazo. I said if he can seal it as this thread is asking then he would have. What does Amaterasu have to do with that? And how does that bring "us back to 'he can't take on all the akatsuki members' and his plans for sasuke would be foiled." Itachi can go meet Sasuke any time he wants. He can leave clues in many places to lure Sasuke to him whenever Sasuke is ready if he'd rather do it that way. They demonstrated they have shared memories that only they remember. Only Sasuke would be able to read these clues so what are you talking about?

      If plot is your answer to everything that's convenient for you then it is also the answer to everything that is inconvenient for you. Plot dictated that the only way to beat the Juubi and Kaguya was the methods used in the plot. Anything else can't beat them, because of plot. The thread starter already deviated from the plot by engaging in this thread, making the thread invalid in the first place.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • You're just strengthening my point on that they never fought. Jinton > Alive Ems/MS Madara whether you like it or not.

      Ignore my citation to the chapter that showed Madara soloing 2 jinton users. TF you mean they never fought?

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Obito is a kamui spammer, poor example.

      How? Obito needed to be solid in order to get in front of the Jinton touch Sasuke. If Obito is fast enough to get in front of it, Madara is fast enough to get away from it.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      Nagato can use bansho tenin on Madara to pull him into jinton, then he'd again have no choice to absorb, then Itachi strikes.

      2 huge problems, one of which I noted in my last post.

      1st problem: Madara can use Deva abilities to negate or nullify Nagato's.

      2nd problem: if Madara has to use Preta Path to absorb Jinton, Itachi's Susanoo cant touch him because it is chakra/Ninjutsu and Preta path absorbs both of those

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • I was totally using Ay and his hellstand against the susanoo clones, what you on about lol.

      And? Doesnt stop any of those clones from using any of said strategies to stop him.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Niggu Ohnoki was drained and couldn't use jinton again, pretending like you don't know only gives you more things to reply to.

      Niggu Onoki used Tsunade as a battery moments before Perf Susanoo made an appearance. Onoki not having chakra isnt an excuse because Tsunade is there for a recharge/battery.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • If Uchiha return really is your plan, he'd still get stabbed in the back by Itachi cuz he'd be occupied collecting and returning the attack

      Cool. Hes more likely to use the 360 ninjutsu defense of Preta path anyways and Itachi wont be able to touch him

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Madara didn't beat MU.

      Yes. He did, at the same time he beat Onoki. Keep ignoring that chapter cite though

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Erm Gaara was busy covering the other's assess, Rasa doesn't have to worry abt that here. He solos the clones with a sand tsunami.

      Gaara was "busy?" If Sand Tsunami beat the clones they would have gotten out of the way so Gaara could solo them all

      They were fighting in the desert. If burying Madara under sand was the answer they wouldn't have lost. There wouldnt have even been a fight.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Niggu Madara fought mortals with limited everything, these guys are nigh immortal like him.

      Most of them dont have the destructive capacity to take on Susanoo even with unlimited chakra.

      Most of them dont have the speed to take on Madara.

      Most of them cant get around 6 Path technique

      Most of them cant stop the effect of chakra recievers

      Most of them cant stop genjutsu

      Most of them cant take on Wood Release

      A few cant take on one of these abilities, but not all of them in one individual wo can make clones to use these abilities at the same time as him

      On top of that he has 7 bijuu + Gedo Mazo for support if he needs it

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    • Kuzan Uchiha wrote: Hahah Yes you can, but only you are speculating here. The existence of the manga without Itachi attempting to seal the statue is my proof, the author didn't want it to be so. You guys have a delusional type of logic here, Itachi is not in control the author is, so plot is the answer duh.

      Are you Kishi? Has there been an interview where he said that he didn't want Itachi to seal the Gedo Mazo? The answer to both questions is no, so therfore you're speculating about authorial intent. Every single thing in the manga is because of plot, so mentioning plot is completely moot.

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    • Shikamaru is only smart because he is a Nara because of plot

      Rasengan is a swirley chakra ball because of plot

      Sasuke' clan died because plot

      Sakumo killed himself because of plot

      Tsunade is a medical ninja because plot

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    • You don't seem to understand, that is literally because of plot. Your arguments are getting even worse.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Shikamaru is only smart because he is a Nara because of plot

      kinda off topic but I don't think being a Nara makes you smart.

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    • FlatZone wrote: You don't seem to understand, that is literally because of plot. Your arguments are getting even worse.

      No, you don't seem to understand. Everything that exists in the manga is due to plot. Unless Kishi, himself, said so, saying that Itachi didn't seal the Gedo Mazo because of plot is not a real argument. If you insist on using plot as an argument, then you won't be taken seriously.

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    • There's no point in even talking to you about this anymore

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Are you Kishi? Has there been an interview where he said that he didn't want Itachi to seal the Gedo Mazo? The answer to both questions is no, so therefore you're speculating about authorial intent. Every single thing in the manga is because of plot, so mentioning plot is completely moot.

      Hahaa i'm not speculating the authors intent, because we have his intent which is the manga, which doesn't have Itachi sealing the statue. Therefore the point you're trying to make is you speculating the authors intent of making Itachi sealing the statue thus making his manga 250 chapters long, though this is non-existent so you can't prove anything. Other arguments are created though on this subject, but you seem fixated on this response haha.

      @Legion Never seen Madara being wanked to such an extent as you have done. Kotoamatsukami one shots him.

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    • Kuzan Uchiha wrote:

      Kotoamatsukami one shots him.

      Cute. And true. But none of the edo in the war had it so it is ultimately irrelevant

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    • LegionZero wrote:

      Kuzan Uchiha wrote:

      Kotoamatsukami one shots him.

      Cute. And true. But none of the edo in the war had it so it is ultimately irrelevant

      It's a summoning crow assigned to Itachi, he can just summon it and cast it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: There's no point in even talking to you about this anymore

      You're absolutely right, dude. Next time, come up with a proper argument

      Kuzan Uchiha wrote; Hahaa i'm not speculating the authors intent, because we have his intent which is the manga, which doesn't have Itachi sealing the statue. Therefore the point you're trying to make is you speculating the authors intent of making Itachi sealing the statue thus making his manga 250 chapters long, though this is non-existent so you can't prove anything. Other arguments are created though on this subject, but you seem fixated on this response haha.

      What you are doing is drawing conclusions from what's presented in the manga without any evidence. That's speculation. You're not Kishi and he hasn't said anything regarding the matter, so you can't claim that you know what he's thinking. You say that I'm fixated on this response, yet here you are responding back to me. Also, have you not been paying attention to the to the thread you created? This is not the only response subject I've addressed

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      FlatZone wrote: There's no point in even talking to you about this anymore

      You're absolutely right, dude. Next time, come up with a proper argument

      Kuzan Uchiha wrote; Hahaa i'm not speculating the authors intent, because we have his intent which is the manga, which doesn't have Itachi sealing the statue. Therefore the point you're trying to make is you speculating the authors intent of making Itachi sealing the statue thus making his manga 250 chapters long, though this is non-existent so you can't prove anything. Other arguments are created though on this subject, but you seem fixated on this response haha.

      What you are doing is drawing conclusions from what's presented in the manga without any evidence. That's speculation. You're not Kishi and he hasn't said anything regarding the matter, so you can't claim that you know what he's thinking. You say that I'm fixated on this response, yet here you are responding back to me. Also, have you not been paying attention to the to the thread you created? This is not the only response subject I've addressed

      Oh a proper argument to what?? This entire thread is speculation alone and there is NO ANSWER to the subject. You think saying things like that mean something when they don't. You need to go take your medication and get off of the internet for awhile, you're pretty cringe here.

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    • Cyberian

      • You ignored my direct question, would the entire akatsuki fail if they had went after orochimaru?
      • Lol the thread is totsuka vs the actual ten tails not the statue.
      • How is that the same thing? using that logic plot also has that the blade can seal anything it pierces thereby contradicting the aforementioned (re:seals to seal kaguya) and indeed rendering the thread useless as we already have our answer in that it can seal the juubi? lmao.
      • The character Itachi was meant to do the things he was shown doing, arguing why he didn't do so and so as if the character controls his own action is just dumb

      Legion

      • Activating a susanoo, with MU not shown to fight back doesn't constitute as a fight. Show me where Mu used jinton?
      • Comparing Madara to a teleportation technique is quite rich. (re:kamui)
      • Itachi's susanoo blade doesn't fall under the same laws as other chakra constructs, it's considered a spirit weapon, why not proceed and say the rinnegan can absorb the reaper death god also. Besides the speed at which objects are launched at the rinnegan user should determine what get's absorbed, or you can just proceed and say the preta path can just stop and absorb Indra's arrow in it's path lmao.
      • Tsunade was also low on chakra, ignore that as well why not.
      • You failed to recognize that Gaara was actually busy trying to protect the others, where's the lie in that?
      • Most of them can't stop so and so.... that type of logic is irrelevant, they're a team here, they'd have each other's back. But individually speaking you are right.
      • Keep being bloody minded and ignore facts, he can't summon the gedo mazo with a fake rinnegan
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    • FlatZone wrote: Oh a proper argument to what?? This entire thread is speculation alone and there is NO ANSWER to the subject. You think saying things like that mean something when they don't.

      There's a different between speculating and not having a proper argument. Saying that Itachi can seal the Juubi is speculating. On the other hand, saying that Itachi didn't seal the Gedo Mazo because of plot is a terrible argument, because everything that occurred is due to plot.

      You need to go take your medication and get off of the internet for awhile, you're pretty cringe here.

      I don't want to hear this from someone who can't handle people dosagreeing with him and had even caused a thread to close because he was being overly aggressive while playing victim. Make proper arguments, next time.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      FlatZone wrote: Oh a proper argument to what?? This entire thread is speculation alone and there is NO ANSWER to the subject. You think saying things like that mean something when they don't.


      There's a different between speculating and not having a proper argument. Saying that Itachi can seal the Juubi is speculating. On the other hand, saying that Itachi didn't seal the Gedo Mazo because of plot is a terrible argument, because everything that occurred is due to plot.

      You need to go take your medication and get off of the internet for awhile, you're pretty cringe here.

      I don't want to hear this from someone who can't handle people dosagreeing with him and had even caused a thread to close because he was being overly aggressive while playing victim. Make proper arguments, next time.

      I don't give a fuck what you don't want to hear. You can move along if you don't like it. You saying you're not wrong, and saying that somebody doesn't "have a proper argument" because they don't agree with you is simply hysterical. Try that bs with some other user, bud.

      @Jason I warned you about these people, shame they can't take their meds and buzz off so people can actually have real conversations on stuff. Otherwise its them getting mad that nobody is kissing their asses and agreeing on everything they say. I guess in a way it is kind of fun though, to wait and see what dumb shit they say next.

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    • FlatZone wrote: @Jason I warned you about these people, shame they can't take their meds and buzz off so people can actually have real conversations on stuff. Otherwise its them getting mad that nobody is kissing their asses and agreeing on everything they say. I guess in a way it is kind of fun though, to wait and see what dumb shit they say next.

      Yeah, that constitutes as an insult. Enough of that.

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    • If Hagoromo was using this sword, I think he very well could seal the Juubi with it.

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    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Activating a susanoo, with MU not shown to fight back doesn't constitute as a fight. Show me where Mu used jinton?

      Show me where he didnt. What we know is Madara was unscathed while both of them were so beat up they couldnt fight back and they would have been in the right to disintegrate Madara. And Madara was holding back.

      Keep ignoring the chapter though. Keep ignoring the part where Onoki was butthurt about the fact that Madara held back in the past

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Comparing Madara to a teleportation technique is quite rich. (re:kamui)

      Obito doesnt have instant teleportation but fine you can have that one.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Itachi's susanoo blade doesn't fall under the same laws as other chakra constructs, it's considered a spirit weapon,

      So you get to arbitrarily decide what chakra constructs do and dont work like other things made of chakra? You got nothing to back this claim.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      why not proceed and say the rinnegan can absorb the reaper death god also.

      Reaper death god is a Summon not a chakra construct nor is it made of chakra. This is like saying Gamabunta can be absorbed

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Tsunade was also low on chakra, ignore that as well why not.

      Her still active healing jutsu and her ability to Katsuyu while crushed and on the edge of death say otherwise

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • You failed to recognize that Gaara was actually busy trying to protect the others, where's the lie in that?

      Decent excuse if Gaara didnt have techniques like Desert Suspension or there wasnt an entire team of telepathic ninja to relay the message to evacuate the area.

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Most of them can't stop so and so.... that type of logic is irrelevant, they're a team here, they'd have each other's back.

      Does it matter who has whos back when none of them can defeat 1 Madara, let alone multiple Madara? With Bijuu?

      Jason of the Mangekyou wrote:

      • Keep being bloody minded and ignore facts, he can't summon the gedo mazo with a fake rinnegan

      Cant summon it but he can control it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: I don't give a fuck what you don't want to hear. You can move along if you don't like it. You saying you're not wrong, and saying that somebody doesn't "have a proper argument" because they don't agree with you is simply hysterical. Try that bs with some other user, bud.

      So do you have an actual argument or not? Your flawed logic posted earlier in the thread is an actual argument

      @Jason I warned you about these people, shame they can't take their meds and buzz off so people can actually have real conversations on stuff. Otherwise its them getting mad that nobody is kissing their asses and agreeing on everything they say. I guess in a way it is kind of fun though, to wait and see what dumb shit they say next.

      Wow, the cringe is real.

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    • @Legion

      • lol go edit the wiki putting MS/EMS Madara or his susanoo's can tank jinton, and cite that chapter as your source💀
      • My two examples I used and the statement in the DB and manga which says it's a spirit weapon backs my claim. Or or or the preta path >>> Indra's arrow?👀 The reaper is a sealing jutsu and also a spirit much like the totsuka.
      • That's after Dan gave her some chakra
      • tf are you talking about? (re: gaara)
      • Niggu what's wrong with you, what bijju does Madara have here? the alliance has the bijju, which will send his clones flying so that the aforementioned doesn't have to.
      • How can he control the statue if it isn't there to control?🙇💀
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