FANDOM


  • 1) Originally claimed to be made up of the chakra of the other Tailed Beasts and also the ancestor of the entire chakra. © Kurama / Nine-Tails

    Bottom line: Ten-Tails - chakra.

    2. Then, after hitting the Tailed Beast Ball by the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path, Naruto says that the chakra statue has disappeared. Later, Naruto says again that the evil chakra of the statue has disappeared and Kurama adds that the creature has no emotions, so it is impossible to feel it.

    2.1. That's where the fun begins. Kurama says that Ten-Tails is natural energy circulating around the planet, this is what Naruto feels in the earth, water and air. (Here we are shown four spheres that imply the natural energy of earth, water, air and Ten-Tails.)

    Bottom line: Ten-Tails is natural energy.

    3. Further, Uchiha Obito being Jinchuriki Ten-Tails uses Truth-Seeking Balls, but not the essence. After senjutsu attack by Gamakichi (by the way, why he suddenly decided to use Senjutsu?), Naruto notices that Senjutsu > Truth-Seeking Balls. Naruto also notes that Ten-Tails is like nature itself, and Saske confirms that natural energy can only be defeated by natural energy.

    Bottom line: Ten-Tails is natural energy.

    4. After a few volumes, by the time Black Zetsu betrayed him, he was pumping the chakra out of the victims of Infinite Tsukuyomi, to which Naruto says even Ten-Tails had less chakra.

    Bottom line: Ten-Tails is the chakra.

    There's a lot of contradictions, don't you think?

      Loading editor
    • Yeah, Naruto is full of plotholes and contradictions, deal with it.

        Loading editor
    • Its not a contradiction. Nothing stops both from being true

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Its not a contradiction. Nothing stops both from being true

      You'd better explain, then.

        Loading editor
    • For starters, i dont have to explain anything

      Secondly, there is nothing to explain. The 2 statements don't contradict eachother. The 10 Tails can have natural energy and chakra.

      Also can you cite the chapters so the rest of us can see the statements in context?

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: For starters, i dont have to explain anything

      Secondly, there is nothing to explain. The 2 statements don't contradict eachother. The 10 Tails can have natural energy and chakra.

      Also can you cite the chapters so the rest of us can see the statements in context?

      Please, chapters:

      1. 594

      2. 609

      3. 610

      3.1. 642 и 643

      4. 679

      P.S. You don't understand, because he was claimed to be a natural energy, and not a chakra that was out of the question.

        Loading editor
    • You think that because it says one thing that the other cant be true and that isnt the case.

      You are also comparing the Juubi itself with its Jinchuriki which a false equivalence

        Loading editor
    • These aren't contradictions, none of them are. The Ten-Tails is a construct of natural energy. But, it has chakra, as it's the origin of chakra. What kind of chakra? Senjutsu chakra. Simple. Your issue with the Truthseekers Orbs makes no sense. Naruto says the reason Senjutsu works against the Orbs and against the Juubi Jinchruki is because natural energy is just as effective against itself as it is against non-senjutsu attacks ("natural energy works against itself too!"). It's not that Senjutsu is greater than the Truthseekers like you said, but that Senjutsu is immune to the Truthseekers's ability to nullify Ninjutsu

      Also, Gamakichi's ability to use Senjutsu didn't come out of nowhere. It was hinted by him earlier being able to see the natural energy Fukasaku absorbed to demonstrated Sage Mode to Naruto. Only Sages can actually see the natural energy.

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote: These aren't contradictions, none of them are. The Ten-Tails is a construct of natural energy. But, it has chakra, as it's the origin of chakra. What kind of chakra? Senjutsu chakra. Simple. Your issue with the Truthseekers Orbs makes no sense. Naruto says the reason Senjutsu works against the Orbs and against the Juubi Jinchruki is because natural energy is just as effective against itself as it is against non-senjutsu attacks ("natural energy works against itself too!"). It's not that Senjutsu is greater than the Truthseekers like you said, but that Senjutsu is immune to the Truthseekers's ability to nullify Ninjutsu

      Also, Gamakichi's ability to use Senjutsu didn't come out of nowhere. It was hinted by him earlier being able to see the natural energy Fukasaku absorbed to demonstrated Sage Mode to Naruto. Only Sages can actually see the natural energy.

      But isn't he called first one (chakra) and then another (natural energy)? How can he be natural energy and have a chakra at the same time?

      The Cataclysm (4 databook) description says that it has a huge amount of chakra and only interacts with nature's energy, but for some reason the Senjutsu technique does not have, which is strange.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      But isn't he called first one (chakra) and then another (natural energy)? How can he be natural energy and have a chakra at the same time?

      That is literally how Senjutsu works. You have this bizarre idea that natural energy and chakra cant be held by the same person/creature. Its not true so get out of that mindset.

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      The Cataclysm (4 databook) description says that it has a huge amount of chakra and only interacts with nature's energy, but for some reason the Senjutsu technique does not have, which is strange.

      Probably because it only used chakra.

        Loading editor
    • The only way for both to be true is if it's both chakra (physical and mental energy) and natural energy at the same time. You'd have to assume they're not mutually exclusive- if you take both to be true that is.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      The Cataclysm (4 databook) description says that it has a huge amount of chakra and only interacts with nature's energy, but for some reason the Senjutsu technique does not have, which is strange.

      Probably because it only used chakra.

      How exactly does it work as you see it? According to information from the fourth database, it uses interaction with natural energy, which = Senjutsu.

      Maybe you still know why no Jugo technique has the Senjutsu classification. And also, why Truth-Seeking Ball according to the same database (in the description) is Senjutsu, but does not have the proper classification? (in the manga also equated to Senjutsu)

        Loading editor
    • Natural Energy isn't Senjutsu.

      Senjutsu uses Nature Energy, but Nature Energy in and of itself is not Senjutsu. Senjutsu is when a technique uses Sage chakra, which is a mixture of nature energy and chakra

        Loading editor
    • Let's for a moment pretend that all statements so far, in regards to the Jubi/Shinju from all the media are true. So if the anime statement, that it absorbs natural energy is true, that would explain why it can be sensed only as natural energy. It can also produce chakra fruit, so some processes probably happen inside that create said chakra. So probably: soul + natural energy = spiritual/mental energy, blood + natural energy = physical energy, but that's just my headcanon. Natural energy may serve as a catalyst in creation of chakra, without necessarily being part of it, but it can be added to chakra as well.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      But isn't he called first one (chakra) and then another (natural energy)? How can he be natural energy and have a chakra at the same time?

      The Cataclysm (4 databook) description says that it has a huge amount of chakra and only interacts with nature's energy, but for some reason the Senjutsu technique does not have, which is strange.

      I don't see the hang up here. It is a construct of natural energy, meaning that it is formed from the God Tree seed consuming the planet's energy. But, as a living thing it produces chakra (the original chakra bearing living thing, in fact). Both can be and are true.

      Cataclysm doesn't control the Senjutsu chakra inside the Juubi, that's why it's not Senjutsu. It's massive chakra just screws with the flow of the planet's natural energy, causing the destruction. When it's just the amount of chakra causing it, it falls under Ninjutsu.

        Loading editor
    • Elveonora wrote: So if the anime statement, that it absorbs natural energy is true, that would explain why it can be sensed only as natural energy.

      What do you mean? Why would it absorbing natural energy make them think it is natural energy?

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote:

      I don't see the hang up here. It is a construct of natural energy, meaning that it is formed from the God Tree seed consuming the planet's energy. But, as a living thing it produces chakra (the original chakra bearing living thing, in fact). Both can be and are true.

      Cataclysm doesn't control the Senjutsu chakra inside the Juubi, that's why it's not Senjutsu. It's massive chakra just screws with the flow of the planet's natural energy, causing the destruction. When it's just the amount of chakra causing it, it falls under Ninjutsu.

      1. So Juubi / Ten-Tails has a sage chakra? 2. How can Chakra influence natural energy? For example, the same Kabuto uses senjutsu (spiritual, physical and natural energy) to manipulate the cave.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      1. So Juubi / Ten-Tails has a sage chakra? 2. How can Chakra influence natural energy? For example, the same Kabuto uses senjutsu (spiritual, physical and natural energy) to manipulate the cave.

      1) Yes. It has natural energy in it's chakra, that's what Senjutsu chakra is. That's why Kurama said that Naruto would need Sage Mode to get a true grasp of what kind of power the Juubi has.

      2) In the case of Cataclysm, the databook merely says that the Juubi's enormous amount of chakra can disturb the flow of the planet's natural energy, which causes the natural disasters. He's not manipulating natural energy in the sense of incorporating it into a jutsu directly. Kabuto used Senjutsu to control the cave, as we see in the technique name. He's creating Senjutsu chakra and using that to give temporary life in inorganic things. The Juubi basically just interferes with how natural energy flows on the planet.

      One is controlling natural energy (senjutsu) the other merely uses chakra (Ninjutsu) to disturb natural energy. Technically, this means enough normal chakra could be accomplish Cataclysm too.

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote:

      1) Yes. It has natural energy in it's chakra, that's what Senjutsu chakra is. That's why Kurama said that Naruto would need Sage Mode to get a true grasp of what kind of power the Juubi has.

      2) In the case of Cataclysm, the databook merely says that the Juubi's enormous amount of chakra can disturb the flow of the planet's natural energy, which causes the natural disasters. He's not manipulating natural energy in the sense of incorporating it into a jutsu directly. Kabuto used Senjutsu to control the cave, as we see in the technique name. He's creating Senjutsu chakra and using that to give temporary life in inorganic things. The Juubi basically just interferes with how natural energy flows on the planet.

      One is controlling natural energy (senjutsu) the other merely uses chakra (Ninjutsu) to disturb natural energy. Technically, this means enough normal chakra could be accomplish Cataclysm too.

      Okay, what about the "Truth-Seeking Balls", which in the fourth database is the result of Six Paths Senjutsu, but Senjutsu's classification does not have, as well as the "ability to turn Ninjutsu into nothing" that Saska attributes to Senjutsu?

        Loading editor
    • TSB arent Senjutsu because they don't use Natural Energy. They nullify Ninjutsu because of Yin Yang release.

      Whats a Saska?

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: TSB arent Senjutsu because they don't use Natural Energy. They nullify Ninjutsu because of Yin Yang release.

      Whats a Saska?

      Sasuke*

      It does not contain any natural energy, but is the result of possession of six routes senjutsu... how is that?

        Loading editor
    • Because 6P Senjutsu gives the user understanding of all things. With that understanding the user manipulates TSB, but the TSB themselves are just chakra, not Senjutsu chakra.

      Also Sasuke didnt say nature energy is effective against nature energy. Naruto theorized it and admitted that he didnt really know what he was talking about in that same panel

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Because 6P Senjutsu gives the user understanding of all things. With that understanding the user manipulates TSB, but the TSB themselves are just chakra, not Senjutsu chakra.

      Also Sasuke didnt say nature energy is effective against nature energy. Naruto theorized it and admitted that he didnt really know what he was talking about in that same panel

      Ok, if Truth-Seeking Ball is not senjutsu, why did Naruto and Tobirama have idea to attack Obito with senjutsu?

      Tobirama justified that idea with a toad attack. Because Obito couldn't neutralize it, it means senjutsu is effective.

      But a little later Sasuke in a dialogue with Naruto confirms that only senjutsu is effective against senjutsu.

      From this we conclude that Tobirama and Naruto had different reasons to attack with senjutsu? At the same time, Tobirama's conclusion was only about balls, but both attacked Obito's body.

        Loading editor
    • Sasuke did t say anything. There were no arrows pointing the text to him. Naruto explained his theory and then admitted he wasnt sure.

      Senjutsu is not the only effective thing to use against Senjutsu. Sage Naruto, Sage Jiraiya, Sage Kabuto have all been effectively fought against without senjutsu. Guy almost killed Madara with pure taijutsu. Senjutsu was jist yhe most effective method at the time

      Senjutsu was the most effective method at the time because Truthseekers cant neutralize natural energy. That is why Naruto and Tobirama attacked with it, as explained by Tobirama. If you look in chapter 642 the Rasengan is shown tearing apart the TSB.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Sasuke did t say anything. There were no arrows pointing the text to him. Naruto explained his theory and then admitted he wasnt sure.

      Senjutsu is not the only effective thing to use against Senjutsu. Sage Naruto, Sage Jiraiya, Sage Kabuto have all been effectively fought against without senjutsu. Guy almost killed Madara with pure taijutsu. Senjutsu was jist yhe most effective method at the time

      Senjutsu was the most effective method at the time because Truthseekers cant neutralize natural energy. That is why Naruto and Tobirama attacked with it, as explained by Tobirama. If you look in chapter 642 the Rasengan is shown tearing apart the TSB.

      He neutralised Minato's arm with his hand, not with the Truth-Seeking Ball. Okay, if it's just about the superiority of senjutsu over the neutralization of ninjutsu, then everything is clear. It's just that Naruto's words about "nature versus nature" didn't give me any peace, because the balls are not senjutsu.

      Neutralization of Ninjutsu is the power of Jinchuriki Ten-Tails?

        Loading editor
    • Whether or not TSBs have natural energy is unclear. Naruto definitely implies they are, as that's his explanation for why Gamakichi's Senjutsu technique wasn't destroyed by the TSBs. We know for sure Obito had natural energy through Six Paths chakra, and Naruto and Tobirama both directly infer that, because Kichi's technique wasn't erased, that Senjutsu techniques work on the Juubi Jinchuriki too This implies the TSBs have Senjutsu chakra in them like their caster. Possibly the databook just made an oversight, it happens (for example, it forgot to list Danzo as having a Summon).

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote: Whether or not TSBs have natural energy is unclear. Naruto definitely implies they are, as that's his explanation for why Gamakichi's Senjutsu technique wasn't destroyed by the TSBs. We know for sure Obito had natural energy through Six Paths chakra, and Naruto and Tobirama both directly infer that, because Kichi's technique wasn't erased, that Senjutsu techniques work on the Juubi Jinchuriki too This implies the TSBs have Senjutsu chakra in them like their caster. Possibly the databook just made an oversight, it happens (for example, it forgot to list Danzo as having a Summon).

      TSBs is not senjutsu, Naruto's words are nothing, it was about neutralizing the Ninjutsu, the power of the ten-tail ginchurika, which can be bypassed using senjutsu.

      TSBs - senjutsu, Naruto is right, Gamakichi's snot destroyed the ball structure only because the snot is senjutsu. But... Lord Two says that the balloons couldn't neutralise the snot just because it's senjutsu, so it's about neutralising

      I don't believe these versions can't be tied together, and Naruto is just an idiot talking about senjutsu's opposition to senjutsu...

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:


      TSBs is not senjutsu, Naruto's words are nothing, it was about neutralizing the Ninjutsu, the power of the ten-tail ginchurika, which can be bypassed using senjutsu.

      TSBs - senjutsu, Naruto is right, Gamakichi's snot destroyed the ball structure only because the snot is senjutsu. But... Lord Two says that the balloons couldn't neutralise the snot just because it's senjutsu, so it's about neutralising

      I don't believe these versions can't be tied together, and Naruto is just an idiot talking about senjutsu's opposition to senjutsu...

      Yu're not really making an argument here, you're just saying the TSBs aren't Senjutsu. Naruto and Tobirama do say this. Here are the order of events and statements:

      Gamakichi fires a Senjutsu Water Release attack.

      The TSBs do not destroy the Senjutsu attack on contact like other Ninjutsu

      Naruto and Tobirama realize they have to use Senjutsu on Obito.

      Senjutsu works on Obito.

      Naruto says he knew Obito would be hurt by Senpo: Rasengan because of Gamakichi's attack not being destroyed, because "Natural energy is effective against itself".


      This is clearly saying that the power to avoid being destroyed by the TSBs is the same power that can hurt the Juubi Jinchuriki: Natural energy. The power that Obito has in his body.

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:


      TSBs is not senjutsu, Naruto's words are nothing, it was about neutralizing the Ninjutsu, the power of the ten-tail ginchurika, which can be bypassed using senjutsu.

      TSBs - senjutsu, Naruto is right, Gamakichi's snot destroyed the ball structure only because the snot is senjutsu. But... Lord Two says that the balloons couldn't neutralise the snot just because it's senjutsu, so it's about neutralising

      I don't believe these versions can't be tied together, and Naruto is just an idiot talking about senjutsu's opposition to senjutsu...

      Yu're not really making an argument here, you're just saying the TSBs aren't Senjutsu. Naruto and Tobirama do say this. Here are the order of events and statements:

      Gamakichi fires a Senjutsu Water Release attack.

      The TSBs do not destroy the Senjutsu attack on contact like other Ninjutsu

      Naruto and Tobirama realize they have to use Senjutsu on Obito.

      Senjutsu works on Obito.

      Naruto says he knew Obito would be hurt by Senpo: Rasengan because of Gamakichi's attack not being destroyed, because "Natural energy is effective against itself".


      This is clearly saying that the power to avoid being destroyed by the TSBs is the same power that can hurt the Juubi Jinchuriki: Natural energy. The power that Obito has in his body.

      Naruto does say that BUT immediately afterwards he says that he doesnt really know for sure.

      And then the databook comes out and says that TSB are Ninjutsu, not Senjutsu.

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote:

      Yu're not really making an argument here, you're just saying the TSBs aren't Senjutsu. Naruto and Tobirama do say this. Here are the order of events and statements:

      Gamakichi fires a Senjutsu Water Release attack.

      The TSBs do not destroy the Senjutsu attack on contact like other Ninjutsu

      Naruto and Tobirama realize they have to use Senjutsu on Obito.

      Senjutsu works on Obito.

      Naruto says he knew Obito would be hurt by Senpo: Rasengan because of Gamakichi's attack not being destroyed, because "Natural energy is effective against itself".


      This is clearly saying that the power to avoid being destroyed by the TSBs is the same power that can hurt the Juubi Jinchuriki: Natural energy. The power that Obito has in his body.

      So the neutralization of ninjutsu is also senjutsu?

        Loading editor
    • No. Neutralization of Ninjutsuis an ability of the TSB using Yin-Yang Release. There is no nature energy in them therefore not Senjutsu

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: No. Neutralization of Ninjutsuis an ability of the TSB using Yin-Yang Release. There is no nature energy in them therefore not Senjutsu

      Obito ripped off the Minato's hand with his hand, not with the ball. So the neutralization was used by the body of the jinchuriki.

        Loading editor
    • No he used the Truth Seeker. He even left it stuck to Minato in the spot where it made contact.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: No he used the Truth Seeker. He even left it stuck to Minato in the spot where it made contact.

      Are you sure? It's just that the accent is on the hand...

      Well, if the neutralization of ninjutsu is a TSB technique, then what is the point of the attack on the body of jinchuriki Ten-Tails, if the advantage of senjutsu Tobirama understood from the attack on TSB?

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Are you sure? It's just that the accent is on the hand...

      Accent? What?

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Well, if the neutralization of ninjutsu is a TSB technique, then what is the point of the attack on the body of jinchuriki Ten-Tails, if the advantage of senjutsu Tobirama understood from the attack on TSB?

      To hurt Obito... The TSB were fast enough to get between Obito and the Rasengan but since the Rasengan had natural energy it plowed threw the ball and the landed the hit on Obito. Its drawn in the chapter.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Are you sure? It's just that the accent is on the hand...

      Accent? What?

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Well, if the neutralization of ninjutsu is a TSB technique, then what is the point of the attack on the body of jinchuriki Ten-Tails, if the advantage of senjutsu Tobirama understood from the attack on TSB?

      To hurt Obito... The TSB were fast enough to get between Obito and the Rasengan but since the Rasengan had natural energy it plowed threw the ball and the landed the hit on Obito. Its drawn in the chapter.

      I don't get it. If I may, more details.

        Loading editor
    • Attacking Obito with the Senjutsu Rasengan had 2 purposes

      • to injure Obito
      • to test if Senjutsu would actually work against the TSB

      They knew that the TSB was fast enough to get inbetween Obito and their attack so if their theory was correct they could land a surprise hit on Obito

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Attacking Obito with the Senjutsu Rasengan had 2 purposes

      • to injure Obito
      • to test if Senjutsu would actually work against the TSB

      They knew that the TSB was fast enough to get inbetween Obito and their attack so if their theory was correct they could land a surprise hit on Obito

      Wasn't the point there that they could hurt the body?

      What does it have to do with the balls, they didn't even try to neutralize the attack...

        Loading editor
    • Go read the the chapters. They were looking for a way to attack Obito that wouldnt be neutralized by the TSB. The Rasengan tore through the TSB and they hit Obito

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Go read the the chapters. They were looking for a way to attack Obito that wouldnt be neutralized by the TSB. The Rasengan tore through the TSB and they hit Obito

      Don't worry, I read those chapters. [67 volume, chapters 642-643]

      Honestly, the manga is open before my eyes and I don't see where Rasengan hit TSB. I see how, Naruto attacked the back of Obito with Rasengan.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      Naruto does say that BUT immediately afterwards he says that he doesnt really know for sure.

      And then the databook comes out and says that TSB are Ninjutsu, not Senjutsu.

      1) It would matter if he said he didn't know for sure, because Tobirama and Obito say the same thing, and the attack works, meaning he's right.

      2) He doesn't even say what you said. Naruto says "I can't explain it well", because he's notably bad at explaining the mechanics of jutsu in the series. But he clearly says that it's the collision of 2 natural energy sources that prevents the annihilation effect of the TSBs.

      3) I've already addressed the databook. It's most likely an oversight (like Danzo not being listed as a summoner), because it says you need the power of the Six Paths to use TSBs, which includes natural energy.

      ReweR 1331 wrote:


      So the neutralization of ninjutsu is also senjutsu?

      The neutralization of ninjutsu is caused by Yin-Yang style specifically (Obito says this). But the TSBs are partly compose of Natural energy.

        Loading editor
    • MindForged wrote:

      1) It would matter if he said he didn't know for sure, because Tobirama and Obito say the same thing, and the attack works, meaning he's right.

      Something working doesnt necessarily validate the explanation of how it worked

      Kabuto believed Sharingan evolved into Rinnegan by mixing Senju and Uchiha, but the truth is its a seperate dojutsu achieved through 6 Paths chakra.

      Jiraiya believed Nagato awakened the Rinnegan, but it was really a transplant of Madara's eyes.

      MindForged wrote:

      2) He doesn't even say what you said. Naruto says "I can't explain it well", because he's notably bad at explaining the mechanics of jutsu in the series. But he clearly says that it's the collision of 2 natural energy sources that prevents the annihilation effect of the TSBs.

      Thats not what he said though. He could be easily saying that you need a Sage to fight a Sage and not natural energy in an attack to stop it from being effected by TSB. Not one character noted that they had Senjutsu chakra

      MindForged wrote:

      3) I've already addressed the databook. It's most likely an oversight (like Danzo not being listed as a summoner),

      That would be believable if the databook also didnt break down the justu so thoroughly.

      Missing a label? Understandable. Missing a key fact in a detailed explanation... highly improbable

      MindForged wrote:

      because it says you need the power of the Six Paths to use TSBs, which includes natural energy.

      The power of 6 Paths also includes just having 6 Paths chakra, which Obito, Kakashi, and Sasuke all have had and Obito only had natural energy as a jinchuriki

      MindForged wrote:

      But the TSBs are partly compose of Natural energy.

      As stated nowhere.

      It would actually make more sense that they cant neutralize natural energy because they themselves dont have natural energy to counter it

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      MindForged wrote:

      1) It would matter if he said he didn't know for sure, because Tobirama and Obito say the same thing, and the attack works, meaning he's right.

      Something working doesnt necessarily validate the explanation of how it worked

      it corroborates it though

      LegionZero wrote: Kabuto believed Sharingan evolved into Rinnegan by mixing Senju and Uchiha, but the truth is its a seperate dojutsu achieved through 6 Paths chakra.

      Jiraiya believed Nagato awakened the Rinnegan, but it was really a transplant of Madara's eyes.

      "It really just depends on whether you think Kishimoto has plans for a reveal regarding this stuff or if the facts/statements/showings left afterwards are the truth of the story"- you in the time scaling thread. These cases are different because they actually were confirmed by be false later on in the story.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Go read the the chapters. They were looking for a way to attack Obito that wouldnt be neutralized by the TSB. The Rasengan tore through the TSB and they hit Obito

      Can you tell us where exactly Rasengan got on TSB?

        Loading editor
    • Babyfriend1 wrote:

      "It really just depends on whether you think Kishimoto has plans for a reveal regarding this stuff or if the facts/statements/showings left afterwards are the truth of the story"- you in the time scaling thread. These cases are different because they actually were confirmed by be false later on in the story.

      And the databook revealed that the databook later clarified that the TSB themselves were not senjutsu and didnt have nature energy

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Can you tell us where exactly Rasengan got on TSB?

      Chapter 642 page 14 top left panel

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Can you tell us where exactly Rasengan got on TSB?

      Chapter 642 page 14 top left panel

      It's blood, not a collapsed ball. Look at page 13, where Naruto attacked the back with Rasengan and Obito has 10 balls (8 behind the back, 2 on the arms).

        Loading editor
    • Ooooooo it is.

      Welp that might be some kinda plot hole because ninjutsu works on the Juubi

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Ooooooo it is.

      Welp that might be some kinda plot hole because ninjutsu works on the Juubi

      Yeah, the ninjutsu is working, remember the scorch release Naruto and Sasuke from which Obito took damage

        Loading editor
    • Nature energy/senjutsu is the most effective against Juubi/Juubi jinchuriki but other things still work

      TSB cant neutralize nature energy but dont actually have nature energy

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Nature energy/senjutsu is the most effective against Juubi/Juubi jinchuriki but other things still work

      TSB cant neutralize nature energy but dont actually have nature energy

      Chakra Ten-Tails is called natural energy, but the ball has no natural energy? What do you mean?

      And then what is the point of Tobirama and Naruto's actions, if their versions are essentially different, if the presence of natural energy in the balloons is not taken into account? Both Tobirama and Naruto came to the conclusion that senjutsu was effective only because senjutsu damaged the balls, and therefore the balls and the jinchuriki itself have one chakra.

        Loading editor
    • Having nature energy doesnt mean everything that comes from it is embedded with Natural Energy. Many of Hagoromo and Kaguya's abilities are not senjutsu

      Even the expansive Truthseeker isnt labeled Senjutsu. The TSB's were explained quite a few times by the databooks and characters so i dont think there is some kind of oversight or mistake about their composition

      Naruto and Tonirama's actions only prove that Nature Energy is really strong against Obito, and the statement Naruto made as about using senjutsu against Obito and not about senjutsu against the TSB

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Having nature energy doesnt mean everything that comes from it is embedded with Natural Energy. Many of Hagoromo and Kaguya's abilities are not senjutsu

      Even the expansive Truthseeker isnt labeled Senjutsu. The TSB's were explained quite a few times by the databooks and characters so i dont think there is some kind of oversight or mistake about their composition

      Naruto and Tonirama's actions only prove that Nature Energy is really strong against Obito, and the statement Naruto made as about using senjutsu against Obito and not about senjutsu against the TSB

      Tobirama and Naruto implied that both the balls and Obito itself have the same chakra, which makes them effective against senjutsu.

      The question is what kind of chakra they are:

      - the ten-tail chakra (aka natural energy). In that case, the balls are not senjutsu. But then the question arises, where does jinchuriki senjutsu chakra come from if the ten-tailed chakra, even if it is natural energy, but senjutsu chakra does not own? And how is it possible that natural energy is called the usual chakra?

      - senjutsu chakra, it is the ten-tail chakra (the chakra consists of three components / energies). In that case, the balls are senjutsu.

        Loading editor
    • Naruto and Tobirama never said anything about the make up of TSB

      Juubi chakra is not natural energy. Chakra and natural energy are 2 different things. The Juubi has both

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Naruto and Tobirama never said anything about the make up of TSB

      Juubi chakra is not natural energy. Chakra and natural energy are 2 different things. The Juubi has both

      They didn't talk, but decided to attack at the same time, because they realized that if senjutsu acts against balls, it means it acts against jinchuriki Ten-Tails. This means that both the balls and jinchuriki itself have the same chakra, which is vulnerable to senjutsu.

      Otherwise, there is simply no connection.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      They didn't talk, but decided to attack at the same time, because they realized that if senjutsu acts against balls, it means it acts against jinchuriki Ten-Tails. This means that both the balls and jinchuriki itself have the same chakra, which is vulnerable to senjutsu.

      By talk i meant the dialogue after and the inner thoughts/monologue during the attack

      Anyways, senjutsu working against the TSB gave them the idea to try to use Senjutsu on Obito. There was never any correlation made between Obito's composition and the TSB's composition. The only explaination as to why or how senjutsu is effective was only given for Obito.

      If the TSB are pure chakra and Obito has the same chakra then he shouldnt need the TSB to neutralize ninjutsu. Simply relasing some chakra would do it but that isnt the case so there are clear differences with Obito and the TSB. In fact, Minato and Naruto's giant Senjutsu Bijuu mode Rasengan didnt have any advantages over the TSB, it just wasnt nullified.

      Any implications between the two were clarified in the databook and they dont support the TSB's being composed of natural energy and that should be enough to put this argument to bed.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      They didn't talk, but decided to attack at the same time, because they realized that if senjutsu acts against balls, it means it acts against jinchuriki Ten-Tails. This means that both the balls and jinchuriki itself have the same chakra, which is vulnerable to senjutsu.

      By talk i meant the dialogue after and the inner thoughts/monologue during the attack

      Anyways, senjutsu working against the TSB gave them the idea to try to use Senjutsu on Obito. There was never any correlation made between Obito's composition and the TSB's composition. The only explaination as to why or how senjutsu is effective was only given for Obito.

      If the TSB are pure chakra and Obito has the same chakra then he shouldnt need the TSB to neutralize ninjutsu. Simply relasing some chakra would do it but that isnt the case so there are clear differences with Obito and the TSB. In fact, Minato and Naruto's giant Senjutsu Bijuu mode Rasengan didnt have any advantages over the TSB, it just wasnt nullified.

      Any implications between the two were clarified in the databook and they dont support the TSB's being composed of natural energy and that should be enough to put this argument to bed.

      It may be worth looking at the original, rather than being satisfied with the translation. And yet, it's weird. Obito received damage from ninjutsu (Scorch Release), which he could neutralize with balls, so what is the advantage of senjutsu over ninjutsu? (except that the balls can't neutralize senjutsu)

      P.S. means now that you have seen the number of balls and the direct hit of Rasengana on the back of Obito, do you agree that the words Naruto have weight?  :)

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      It may be worth looking at the original, rather than being satisfied with the translation.

      This topic has actually been discussed to death and multiple translators on this wiki have look at it already and cross-referenced it with other translations

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      And yet, it's weird. Obito received damage from ninjutsu (Scorch Release), which he could neutralize with balls, so what is the advantage of senjutsu over ninjutsu? (except that the balls can't neutralize senjutsu)

      • Senjutsu is a big multiplier
      • Senjustu isnt neutralized by TSB
      • Senjutsu just works better against Senjutsu

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      P.S. means now that you have seen the number of balls and the direct hit of Rasengana on the back of Obito, do you agree that the words Naruto have weight?  :)

      They have weight when it comes to the jinchuriki of the Juubi, not the TSB

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Juubi chakra is not natural energy. Chakra and natural energy are 2 different things. The Juubi has both

      They didn't just say it had natural energy. They said it is natural energy. They also said it was the collection of all the tailed beasts' chakra

        Loading editor
    • Babyfriend1 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: Juubi chakra is not natural energy. Chakra and natural energy are 2 different things. The Juubi has both

      They didn't just say it had natural energy. They said it is natural energy. They also said it was the collection of all the tailed beasts' chakra

      That is figurative

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      Babyfriend1 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: Juubi chakra is not natural energy. Chakra and natural energy are 2 different things. The Juubi has both

      They didn't just say it had natural energy. They said it is natural energy. They also said it was the collection of all the tailed beasts' chakra

      That is figurative

      But then naruto says that if the ten tails is natural energy then he can sense it the same way he senses regular natural energy which he then does. Also, why do you think it's figurative?

        Loading editor
    • The Juubi has natural energy, it is not made of nature energy and it isnt nature energy incarnate.

      Saying it os the embodiment of natural energy is figurative. Because it has so much of it

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      It may be worth looking at the original, rather than being satisfied with the translation.

      This topic has actually been discussed to death and multiple translators on this wiki have look at it already and cross-referenced it with other translations

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      And yet, it's weird. Obito received damage from ninjutsu (Scorch Release), which he could neutralize with balls, so what is the advantage of senjutsu over ninjutsu? (except that the balls can't neutralize senjutsu)

      • Senjutsu is a big multiplier
      • Senjustu isnt neutralized by TSB
      • Senjutsu just works better against Senjutsu

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      P.S. means now that you have seen the number of balls and the direct hit of Rasengana on the back of Obito, do you agree that the words Naruto have weight?  :)

      They have weight when it comes to the jinchuriki of the Juubi, not the TSB

      Well, jinchuriki Ten-Tails is vulnerable to senjutsu due to the fact that it itself has natural energy / senjutsu chakra.

      For what reason are TSB vulnerable to senjutsu if they do not carry natural energy?

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      For what reason are TSB vulnerable to senjutsu if they do not carry natural energy?

      TSB are not vulnerable to Senjutsu they just cant nullify senjutsu

      As for why Senjutsu cant be nullified, no answer was ever given. It just cant. The manga hasnt directly stated that they have natural energy even when breaking it down in depth. The databook on doesnt classify TSB as senjutsu on 2 occasions and doesnt say it has nature energy in them either explanation.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      For what reason are TSB vulnerable to senjutsu if they do not carry natural energy?

      TSB are not vulnerable to Senjutsu they just cant nullify senjutsu

      As for why Senjutsu cant be nullified, no answer was ever given. It just cant. The manga hasnt directly stated that they have natural energy even when breaking it down in depth. The databook on doesnt classify TSB as senjutsu on 2 occasions and doesnt say it has nature energy in them either explanation.

      Didn't the TSB structure start falling apart after the Gamakichi attack?

        Loading editor
    • No

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: No

      Okay, basically, it makes sense.

      Does the default balloon powder everything like a Dust Release or not?

        Loading editor
    • Dude, if you read the databook entry for TSB, it should become clear that they can have whatever effect, it all depends on the mixtures of natures used.

        Loading editor
    • Elveonora wrote: Dude, if you read the databook entry for TSB, it should become clear that they can have whatever effect, it all depends on the mixtures of natures used.

      Yes, and it also says that this is a force that is superior to Bloodline Limit and Bloodline Selection, although this is a direct quote from Hiruzena, which refers to balls as destroying everything into powder, something like Dust Release, only with the ability to change shape, which means they are suitable for both attack and defense (he also assumed that TSB is the result of 4+ elements).

        Loading editor
    • Read the manga/databook. All the answers you are looking for are there

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Read the manga/databook. All the answers you are looking for are there

      Is that the easiest answer for you?) I read it, but the manga left too many questions.

      For example, in the next topic you never answered, what is the predisposition to an element (easy, but what does it have to do with?), and also what does it mean when you say that Naruto (for example) Seishitsu Wind? It has a predisposition to create an element, or its body does have wind energy, which when added to the chakra forms a Wind Release (the data book describes Seishitsu Henka, it's a Seishitsu addition to the chakra).

      All these topics are related, because they lead us to TSB, which in the data book have some properties / Seishitsu inside. Wood Release = Earth Release + Water Release, but Wood does not carry any properties of land or water (Seishitsu Earth and Seishitsu Water), it carries a new Seishitsu, - Wood. Shouldn't it be the same with TSB?

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Is that the easiest answer for you?) I read it, but the manga left too many questions.

      That is the easiest answer. You need to read these things more carefully because you are asking a lot of questions that the manga/databook has answers to

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      For example, in the next topic you never answered, what is the predisposition to an element (easy, but what does it have to do with?), and also what does it mean when you say that Naruto (for example) Seishitsu Wind? It has a predisposition to create an element, or its body does have wind energy, which when added to the chakra forms a Wind Release (the data book describes Seishitsu Henka, it's a Seishitsu addition to the chakra).

      There is literally no answer to that question. All this stuff about wind energy and the body adding elemental energy, doesnt exist. You have come up with with these concepts and then ask us if they are correct. It comes off like you misunderstanding something fundemental from the manga or databooks that its easier to direct you to the manga/databook/wiki page so you can review the information and come to a better understanding

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      All these topics are related, because they lead us to TSB, which in the data book have some properties / Seishitsu inside. Wood Release = Earth Release + Water Release, but Wood does not carry any properties of land or water (Seishitsu Earth and Seishitsu Water), it carries a new Seishitsu, - Wood. Shouldn't it be the same with TSB?

      The manga and databook explain very clearly that they have all the basic nature transformations and yin-yang

      There are some fan translations that incorrectly say Wood release, it is suppose to be the 5 basic elements

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Is that the easiest answer for you?) I read it, but the manga left too many questions.

      That is the easiest answer. You need to read these things more carefully because you are asking a lot of questions that the manga/databook has answers to

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      For example, in the next topic you never answered, what is the predisposition to an element (easy, but what does it have to do with?), and also what does it mean when you say that Naruto (for example) Seishitsu Wind? It has a predisposition to create an element, or its body does have wind energy, which when added to the chakra forms a Wind Release (the data book describes Seishitsu Henka, it's a Seishitsu addition to the chakra).

      There is literally no answer to that question. All this stuff about wind energy and the body adding elemental energy, doesnt exist. You have come up with with these concepts and then ask us if they are correct. It comes off like you misunderstanding something fundemental from the manga or databooks that its easier to direct you to the manga/databook/wiki page so you can review the information and come to a better understanding

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      All these topics are related, because they lead us to TSB, which in the data book have some properties / Seishitsu inside. Wood Release = Earth Release + Water Release, but Wood does not carry any properties of land or water (Seishitsu Earth and Seishitsu Water), it carries a new Seishitsu, - Wood. Shouldn't it be the same with TSB?

      The manga and databook explain very clearly that they have all the basic nature transformations and yin-yang

      There are some fan translations that incorrectly say Wood release, it is suppose to be the 5 basic elements

      TSB is the result of Fire Release, Water Release, Wind Release, Earth Release, Lightning Release and Release Yin-Yang? Or is it just a ball that has all the basic Seishitsu by default?

        Loading editor
    • This is kinda besides the topic but it should be mentioned that neutralization of ninjutsu is not a property of Yin-Yang release itself but rather an effect of unnamed ninjutsu based on Yin-Yang release.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote: TSB is the result of Fire Release, Water Release, Wind Release, Earth Release, Lightning Release and Release Yin-Yang? Or is it just a ball that has all the basic Seishitsu by default?

      The answer you are looking for is in the databook

      Solo King wrote:

      This is kinda besides the topic but it should be mentioned that neutralization of ninjutsu is not a property of Yin-Yang release itself but rather an effect of unnamed ninjutsu based on Yin-Yang release.

      I dont believe that was ever stated. Tobirama says he most likely using a Yin-Yang Jutsu but the databook clarifies that the TSB can be imbued with Yin-Yang. The TSB is the jutsu he is talking about

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote: TSB is the result of Fire Release, Water Release, Wind Release, Earth Release, Lightning Release and Release Yin-Yang? Or is it just a ball that has all the basic Seishitsu by default?

      The answer you are looking for is in the databook

      Solo King wrote:

      This is kinda besides the topic but it should be mentioned that neutralization of ninjutsu is not a property of Yin-Yang release itself but rather an effect of unnamed ninjutsu based on Yin-Yang release.

      I dont believe that was ever stated. Tobirama says he most likely using a Yin-Yang Jutsu but the databook clarifies that the TSB can be imbued with Yin-Yang. The TSB is the jutsu he is talking about

      The data book says it's a ball that has inside all Seishitsu.

      The TSB wiki page says that it is formed from release 7+.

        Loading editor
    • Well , there is your answer

        Loading editor
    • No, it’s a different jutsu, Tobirama himself says so (chapter 642 page 4). Juubi Jinchuuriki use it on both themselves (defensively) and Truth Seeking Orbs (defensively and offensively). If ordinary ninjutsu worked on JJ then Tobirama wouldn’t have noted that Senjutsu is effective against Obito. Also, Obito couldn’t neutralise ninjutsu in his uncontrolled state, as evident by Hiruzen not dying when he got hit by TSO.

        Loading editor
    • The databooks clarify that Yin-Yang can be added to the TSB. YinYang+TSB is the jutsu.

      Juubi Jinchuriki cannot use YinYang on themselves to nujjify ninjutsu, every jutsu that was nullified was done by the TSB. 642 Page1 shows Obito engulfed in flames until the TSB came to him and page 2 shows smoke coming his body at the point of impact. Ninjutsu works, it just doesnt work all that well

      Senjutsu is the most effective thing against Juub Jinchuriki but not the only thing

        Loading editor
    • 1. Tobirama explicitly stated that ninjutsu erasure is an effect of a jutsu based Yin-Yang release, not the affect of the spheres themsleves. He said this after nothing the fact that Rasenshuriken+Kagutsuchi combo had no effect on Obito.

      2. Yin-Yang has no properties that allows user to automatically erase all kinds of ninjutsu. Only a ninjutsu that’s based on it has such effect.

      3. Obito was not engulfed in flames but the surroundings were, ninjutsu neutralization is not an area of effect kind spell but rather a contact type. The steam/smoke probably came from Sasuke and Naruto’s combo attack’s explosion since we don’t see Obito suffering any external injuries.

      4. Tobirama noted that senjutsu works on Obito precisely when Naruto landed his Rasengan on Obito’s back, not because he could effectively attack the spheres. Even Obito himself was surprised that senjutsu could work on him. Why would either of these things be brought up if the body of JJ and TSO didn’t share the same attributes?

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: The databooks clarify that Yin-Yang can be added to the TSB. YinYang+TSB is the jutsu.

      Juubi Jinchuriki cannot use YinYang on themselves to nujjify ninjutsu, every jutsu that was nullified was done by the TSB. 642 Page1 shows Obito engulfed in flames until the TSB came to him and page 2 shows smoke coming his body at the point of impact. Ninjutsu works, it just doesnt work all that well

      Senjutsu is the most effective thing against Juub Jinchuriki but not the only thing

      According to the data book, Yin-Yang in the balls is by default.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: The databooks clarify that Yin-Yang can be added to the TSB. YinYang+TSB is the jutsu.

      Juubi Jinchuriki cannot use YinYang on themselves to nujjify ninjutsu, every jutsu that was nullified was done by the TSB. 642 Page1 shows Obito engulfed in flames until the TSB came to him and page 2 shows smoke coming his body at the point of impact. Ninjutsu works, it just doesnt work all that well

      Senjutsu is the most effective thing against Juub Jinchuriki but not the only thing

      According to the data book, Yin-Yang in the balls is by default.

      Its not always active

      Solo King wrote:

      1. Tobirama explicitly stated that ninjutsu erasure is an effect of a jutsu based Yin-Yang release, not the affect of the spheres themsleves.

      Applying YinYang to the TSB for nullification is the jutsu. If it was not the jutsu, the databook would have clarified that

      Solo King wrote:

      He said this after nothing the fact that Rasenshuriken+Kagutsuchi combo had no effect on Obito.

      Solo King wrote:

      3. Obito was not engulfed in flames but the surroundings were, ninjutsu neutralization is not an area of effect kind spell but rather a contact type. The steam/smoke probably came from Sasuke and Naruto’s combo attack’s explosion since we don’t see Obito suffering any external injuries.

      The Rasenshuriken-Kagetsuchi combo wasnt nullified by Obito, it was nullified but the TSB. If Juubito's body was nullified ninjutsu it would have disappeared on contact.

      Instead what happened was Juubito got hit by the attack, he thought about how they used FTG to hit him with it, flew back, the attack exploded, the TSB flew to to him in the middle of the fire and then nullified the flames. There is a panel showing the TSB nullifying them, not Juubito

      The smoke/steam effect being there is proof enough that Juubito did not nullify the attack. Its also the same effect seen when Obito heals. Not only did the attack hit him, it caused some damage, just not enough to matter

      The only nullification ever shown was by TSB and not the Jinchuriki

      Solo King wrote:

      2. Yin-Yang has no properties that allows user to automatically erase all kinds of ninjutsu. Only a ninjutsu that’s based on it has such effect.

      So little is explained about YinYang you can't accurately make that claim. What we do know is that adding YinYang to the TSB allows them to nullify ninjutsu. This is shown in the manga and clarified by the databook

      Solo King wrote:

      4. Tobirama noted that senjutsu works on Obito precisely when Naruto landed his Rasengan on Obito’s back, not because he could effectively attack the spheres. Even Obito himself was surprised that senjutsu could work on him. Why would either of these things be brought up if the body of JJ and TSO didn’t share the same attributes?

      The JJ's body isnt made of chakra. JJ's body isnt a TSB. The TSB do all kinds of crazy things that the JJ just can't do.

      It was never said that it was effective because Obito's body couldnt nullify it. Just because the attack is effective on both doesnt mean it is effective for the same reason. It was never said that it was effective because Obito's body couldnt nullify it

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: The databooks clarify that Yin-Yang can be added to the TSB. YinYang+TSB is the jutsu.

      Juubi Jinchuriki cannot use YinYang on themselves to nujjify ninjutsu, every jutsu that was nullified was done by the TSB. 642 Page1 shows Obito engulfed in flames until the TSB came to him and page 2 shows smoke coming his body at the point of impact. Ninjutsu works, it just doesnt work all that well

      Senjutsu is the most effective thing against Juub Jinchuriki but not the only thing

      According to the data book, Yin-Yang in the balls is by default.

      Its not always active

      Solo King wrote:

      1. Tobirama explicitly stated that ninjutsu erasure is an effect of a jutsu based Yin-Yang release, not the affect of the spheres themsleves.

      Applying YinYang to the TSB for nullification is the jutsu. If it was not the jutsu, the databook would have clarified that

      Solo King wrote:

      He said this after nothing the fact that Rasenshuriken+Kagutsuchi combo had no effect on Obito.

      Solo King wrote:

      3. Obito was not engulfed in flames but the surroundings were, ninjutsu neutralization is not an area of effect kind spell but rather a contact type. The steam/smoke probably came from Sasuke and Naruto’s combo attack’s explosion since we don’t see Obito suffering any external injuries.

      The Rasenshuriken-Kagetsuchi combo wasnt nullified by Obito, it was nullified but the TSB. If Juubito's body was nullified ninjutsu it would have disappeared on contact.

      Instead what happened was Juubito got hit by the attack, he thought about how they used FTG to hit him with it, flew back, the attack exploded, the TSB flew to to him in the middle of the fire and then nullified the flames. There is a panel showing the TSB nullifying them, not Juubito

      The smoke/steam effect being there is proof enough that Juubito did not nullify the attack. Its also the same effect seen when Obito heals. Not only did the attack hit him, it caused some damage, just not enough to matter

      The only nullification ever shown was by TSB and not the Jinchuriki

      Solo King wrote:

      2. Yin-Yang has no properties that allows user to automatically erase all kinds of ninjutsu. Only a ninjutsu that’s based on it has such effect.

      So little is explained about YinYang you can't accurately make that claim. What we do know is that adding YinYang to the TSB allows them to nullify ninjutsu. This is shown in the manga and clarified by the databook

      Solo King wrote:

      4. Tobirama noted that senjutsu works on Obito precisely when Naruto landed his Rasengan on Obito’s back, not because he could effectively attack the spheres. Even Obito himself was surprised that senjutsu could work on him. Why would either of these things be brought up if the body of JJ and TSO didn’t share the same attributes?

      The JJ's body isnt made of chakra. JJ's body isnt a TSB. The TSB do all kinds of crazy things that the JJ just can't do.

      It was never said that it was effective because Obito's body couldnt nullify it. Just because the attack is effective on both doesnt mean it is effective for the same reason. It was never said that it was effective because Obito's body couldnt nullify it

      What are you talking about? The data book clearly lists all TSB components, this: Fire, Water, Earth, Light, Wind and Yin-Yang. That's it.


      I really do not understand, the ball initially appears with all the elements / seishitsu, that is, the user has the ability to create a chakra that originally has it, or like all other techniques of the bloodline limit class, is formed by merging multiple components, and in our case after the merge of all 7?

        Loading editor
    • 1. It doesn’t matter if it’s active or not, basic Yin-Yang release has no such properties that allows it to automatically neutralise any ninjutsu. It’s like saying every Katon is inextinguishable because Amaterasu is also Katon.

      2. Tobirama outright says it’s a different ninjutsu that is not specifically affiliated with the spheres. If he did, he would have outright stated that TSO can erase ninjutsu as well.

      3. We never saw Obito burning or being engulfed in flames, which makes it possible that the ninjutsu was already neutralised before TSO made contact with Amaterasu. We never saw him him taking damage either.

      4. I don’t think it was anywhere stated that TSO don’t automatically come with Yin-Yang release. What is undeniable though is that JJ utilise some sort of jutsu based on this chakra style to nullify every ninjutsu that comes in contact.

      5. They aren’t made out of pure chakra but they are infused with it, the same when Naruto is when he’s uses Kurama Modes. I don’t know where are you getting the idea that they can’t use the jutsu through their bodies.

      6. The thing is that Tobirama, Sasuke and Obito were surprised that Naruto’s Rasengan was able to deal damage to Obito’s body. Such notion would have been completely useless if all what possessed ninjutsu immunity were his black spheres.

        Loading editor
    • Solo King wrote: 1. It doesn’t matter if it’s active or not, basic Yin-Yang release has no such properties that allows it to automatically neutralise any ninjutsu. It’s like saying every Katon is inextinguishable because Amaterasu is also Katon.

      2. Tobirama outright says it’s a different ninjutsu that is not specifically affiliated with the spheres. If he did, he would have outright stated that TSO can erase ninjutsu as well.

      3. We never saw Obito burning or being engulfed in flames, which makes it possible that the ninjutsu was already neutralised before TSO made contact with Amaterasu. We never saw him him taking damage either.

      4. I don’t think it was anywhere stated that TSO don’t automatically come with Yin-Yang release. What is undeniable though is that JJ utilise some sort of jutsu based on this chakra style to nullify every ninjutsu that comes in contact.

      5. They aren’t made out of pure chakra but they are infused with it, the same when Naruto is when he’s uses Kurama Modes. I don’t know where are you getting the idea that they can’t use the jutsu through their bodies.

      6. The thing is that Tobirama, Sasuke and Obito were surprised that Naruto’s Rasengan was able to deal damage to Obito’s body. Such notion would have been completely useless if all what possessed ninjutsu immunity were his black spheres.

      Do you think the ball is formed as a result of the release of 7 elements, or initially has all 7 elements?

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      What are you talking about? The data book clearly lists all TSB components, this: Fire, Water, Earth, Light, Wind and Yin-Yang. That's it.

      What are you talking about? I have no idea what statement you are asking about

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      I really do not understand, the ball initially appears with all the elements / seishitsu, that is, the user has the ability to create a chakra that originally has it, or like all other techniques of the bloodline limit class, is formed by merging multiple components, and in our case after the merge of all 7?

      What?

      Solo King wrote:

      1. It doesn’t matter if it’s active or not, basic Yin-Yang release has no such properties that allows it to automatically neutralise any ninjutsu.

      A YinYang jutsu is YinYang release so YinYang has the ability to neutralize ninjutsu.

      The way he is using YinYang in the TSB allows them to neutralize ninjutsu. The databook even says using its natures in different ways gives them different effects.

      Solo King wrote:

      2. Tobirama outright says it’s a different ninjutsu that is not specifically affiliated with the spheres. If he did, he would have outright stated that TSO can erase ninjutsu as well.

      He never said it was unrelated to the TSB and only the TSB displayed nullification

      Solo King wrote:

      3. We never saw Obito burning or being engulfed in flames, which makes it possible that the ninjutsu was already neutralised before TSO made contact with Amaterasu.

      We literally did.


      Solo King wrote:

      We never saw him him taking damage either.

      We saw him regenerating from damage

      Solo King wrote:

      4. I don’t think it was anywhere stated that TSO don’t automatically come with Yin-Yang release.

      Databook

      Solo King wrote:

      What is undeniable though is that JJ utilise some sort of jutsu based on this chakra style to nullify every ninjutsu that comes in contact.

      Only TSB were shown neutralising

      Neither the manga nor the databook identify a jutsu that does what you say.

      Solo King wrote:

      5. They aren’t made out of pure chakra but they are infused with it, the same when Naruto is when he’s uses Kurama Modes. I don’t know where are you getting the idea that they can’t use the jutsu through their bodies.

      The databook say they are balls of condensed chakra with all 7 nature transformations

      Solo King wrote:

      6. The thing is that Tobirama, Sasuke and Obito were surprised that Naruto’s Rasengan was able to deal damage to Obito’s body. Such notion would have been completely useless if all what possessed ninjutsu immunity were his black spheres.

      They were surprised that it did major damage. We have seen Obito effected by ninjutsu. And it was minimal

      Nothing shows or states that JJ's bodies are immune to ninjutsu

        Loading editor
    • to add to the contradiction, the Boruto manga contradicts the statement that the shinju is the origin of chakra. as the Kara Scientist Amado explains that the Otsutuski clan are parasites who go from planet to planet, planting shinju, the shinju then feed off the chakra and life force of the planets, forming the chakra fruit, the fruit is formed not from its own chakra but the chakra and genetic make up of the life forms of the planets it is feeding off. meaning that the fruit that formed on Naruto's planet that was eventually ate by kaguya was not the tree's chakra but the chakra of the people who already lived on that world.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      What are you talking about? The data book clearly lists all TSB components, this: Fire, Water, Earth, Light, Wind and Yin-Yang. That's it.

      What are you talking about? I have no idea what statement you are asking about

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      I really do not understand, the ball initially appears with all the elements / seishitsu, that is, the user has the ability to create a chakra that originally has it, or like all other techniques of the bloodline limit class, is formed by merging multiple components, and in our case after the merge of all 7?

      What?

      Solo King wrote:

      1. It doesn’t matter if it’s active or not, basic Yin-Yang release has no such properties that allows it to automatically neutralise any ninjutsu.

      A YinYang jutsu is YinYang release so YinYang has the ability to neutralize ninjutsu.

      The way he is using YinYang in the TSB allows them to neutralize ninjutsu. The databook even says using its natures in different ways gives them different effects.

      Solo King wrote:

      2. Tobirama outright says it’s a different ninjutsu that is not specifically affiliated with the spheres. If he did, he would have outright stated that TSO can erase ninjutsu as well.

      He never said it was unrelated to the TSB and only the TSB displayed nullification

      Solo King wrote:

      3. We never saw Obito burning or being engulfed in flames, which makes it possible that the ninjutsu was already neutralised before TSO made contact with Amaterasu.

      We literally did.


      Solo King wrote:

      We never saw him him taking damage either.

      We saw him regenerating from damage

      Solo King wrote:

      4. I don’t think it was anywhere stated that TSO don’t automatically come with Yin-Yang release.

      Databook

      Solo King wrote:

      What is undeniable though is that JJ utilise some sort of jutsu based on this chakra style to nullify every ninjutsu that comes in contact.

      Only TSB were shown neutralising

      Neither the manga nor the databook identify a jutsu that does what you say.

      Solo King wrote:

      5. They aren’t made out of pure chakra but they are infused with it, the same when Naruto is when he’s uses Kurama Modes. I don’t know where are you getting the idea that they can’t use the jutsu through their bodies.

      The databook say they are balls of condensed chakra with all 7 nature transformations

      Solo King wrote:

      6. The thing is that Tobirama, Sasuke and Obito were surprised that Naruto’s Rasengan was able to deal damage to Obito’s body. Such notion would have been completely useless if all what possessed ninjutsu immunity were his black spheres.

      They were surprised that it did major damage. We have seen Obito effected by ninjutsu. And it was minimal

      Nothing shows or states that JJ's bodies are immune to ninjutsu

      How do you see TSB being created? Naruto has no Yin Release and Obito has no Yang Release.

      The data book takes into account the permanent presence of Yin-Yang, not the ability to add Yin-Yang to TSB. The balloons either started to neutralize everything by default after Ten-Tails submission, or Obito used the Yin-Yang Release technique because TSB has Yin-Yang.

        Loading editor
    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      to add to the contradiction, the Boruto manga contradicts the statement that the shinju is the origin of chakra. as the Kara Scientist Amado explains that the Otsutuski clan are parasites who go from planet to planet, planting shinju, the shinju then feed off the chakra and life force of the planets, forming the chakra fruit, the fruit is formed not from its own chakra but the chakra and genetic make up of the life forms of the planets it is feeding off. meaning that the fruit that formed on Naruto's planet that was eventually ate by kaguya was not the tree's chakra but the chakra of the people who already lived on that world.

      Is this actually what was said though? Do the raws reflect that he said it absorbs chakra from the planet and not life-force or energy? I can see a translator misunderstanding something like that

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      How do you see TSB being created?

      The only person to create a TSB was Kaguya

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Naruto has no Yin Release and Obito has no Yang Release.

      Not sure where you got that idea from. They both have all the basic Releases

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      The data book takes into account the permanent presence of Yin-Yang, not the ability to add Yin-Yang to TSB. The balloons either started to neutralize everything by default after Ten-Tails submission, or Obito used the Yin-Yang Release technique because TSB has Yin-Yang.

      The TSB have YinYang. They do not always neutralize ninjutsu because the user has to actually use the natures inside. The databook says different combination of the natures inside have different effects.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      How do you see TSB being created?

      The only person to create a TSB was Kaguya

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Naruto has no Yin Release and Obito has no Yang Release.

      Not sure where you got that idea from. They both have all the basic Releases

      Okay, describe the process as you understand it.

      In almost every answer you send me to read manga and data books, but it seems that you didn't even bother to read them yourself?! In the fourth book of data, there is no Yin in the Naruto profile, and in the Obito profile there is no Yang.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Okay, describe the process as you understand it.

      What process?

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      In almost every answer you send me to read manga and data books, but it seems that you didn't even bother to read them yourself?! In the fourth book of data, there is no Yin in the Naruto profile, and in the Obito profile there is no Yang.

      Yin and Yang Release entry says Naruto has YinYang release because he got Hagoromo's power. Obito has YinYang through the TSB. YinYang is part Yin and part Yang(assuming YinYang isnt just Yin and Yang at the same time).

      Maybe Obito isnt listed as Yang because only the TSB have it Yang & YinYang. But the databook clarifies elsewhere that Naruto himself uses YinYang meaning he has Yin release

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Okay, describe the process as you understand it.

      What process?

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      In almost every answer you send me to read manga and data books, but it seems that you didn't even bother to read them yourself?! In the fourth book of data, there is no Yin in the Naruto profile, and in the Obito profile there is no Yang.

      Yin and Yang Release entry says Naruto has YinYang release because he got Hagoromo's power. Obito has YinYang through the TSB. YinYang is part Yin and part Yang(assuming YinYang isnt just Yin and Yang at the same time).

      Maybe Obito isnt listed as Yang because only the TSB have it Yang & YinYang. But the databook clarifies elsewhere that Naruto himself uses YinYang meaning he has Yin release

      The process of forming TSB...

        Loading editor
    • Its never elaborated on.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Its never elaborated on.

      But TSB is formed from all the transformations of nature, right? So the ball is made up of Fire Release, Wind Release, Lightning Release, Earth Release and Yin-Yang Release?

        Loading editor
    • It is made of chakra that has all of those nature transformations.

      How it is formed is never elaborated on.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: It is made of chakra that has all of those nature transformations.

      How it is formed is never elaborated on.

      Okay, here's an example for you. Dust Release appears as a result of mixing Fire Release, Wind Release and Earth Release. Is that right? Yes, it does. © Manga and Databook.

      TSB appears as a result of mixing Fire Release, Wind Release, Lightning Release, Earth Release, Water Release and Yin-Yang Release. That TSB is created from the releases is confirmed by the Databook on TSB Kaguya.

      Basically, there's no difference, but there is one thing. If Dust Release is something new and doesn't carry the Fire, Wind and Earth properties inside, then TSB somehow retains the properties of all the components that were used in the creation.

        Loading editor
    • The TSB are chakra. They are not made from nature release. They are chakra.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: The TSB are chakra. They are not made from nature release. They are chakra.

      The data book specifies that TSB does not simply contain the strength of the 5 basic natures and Yin-Yang, but it is created from all 7 of the natural Chakras.

        Loading editor
    • No it says it contains all of them.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: No it says it contains all of them.

      Check out the wiki and data book on the Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball, it says it is made up of all natural chakras.

        Loading editor
    • It doesnt say that it is made of them.

      • TSB entry says they "encompass" all elements. The TSB entry says specifically that the TSB are super consensed chakra
      • ETSB says it is the same as TSB and takes in all releases
        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: It doesnt say that it is made of them.

      • TSB entry says they "encompass" all elements. The TSB entry says specifically that the TSB are super consensed chakra
      • ETSB says it is the same as TSB and takes in all releases

      How can he not say if it is explicitly written that TSB consists of all natural chakras?

        Loading editor
    • It has all releases within it. It is not made of those natures

      The ball itself is CHAKRA. That chakra is capable of all nature tranformations.

      Its not like a 7 way fusion between nature releases. It is not a megazord.

      Whatever you think you know about TSB. You need to forget it and read the relevent chapters/databook entries. Like really read it, and break down what is being said. Im not trying to be a dick but every time we tell you what the source material says you point out another statement as if it contradicts other facts about it and they don't.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: It has all releases within it. It is not made of those natures

      The ball itself is CHAKRA. That chakra is capable of all nature tranformations.

      Its not like a 7 way fusion between nature releases. It is not a megazord.

      Whatever you think you know about TSB. You need to forget it and read the relevent chapters/databook entries. Like really read it, and break down what is being said. Im not trying to be a dick but every time we tell you what the source material says you point out another statement as if it contradicts other facts about it and they don't.

      The nature of the chakra - what is it? In my understanding, this is energy that has the properties of a certain element.

        Loading editor
    • Chakra is a neutral energy that can take on the properties of elements, but by default has none.

      Nature transformations are what happens when chakra is manipulated to take on the properties/form of an element.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Chakra is a neutral energy that can take on the properties of elements, but by default has none.

      Nature transformations are what happens when chakra is manipulated to take on the properties/form of an element.

      There, that's right.

      But TSB consists of 7 natural chakras. The question is, where did they come from if the user did not use the transformation of nature?

        Loading editor
    • The only person who actually creates is Kaguya. Hagoromo, Obito, and Madara got them after becoming Juubi Jinchuriki

      Naruto got his while his 9 Bijuu chakra mode was active. Maybe it has something to do with Juubi/Kaguya's chakra.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: The only person who actually creates is Kaguya. Hagoromo, Obito, and Madara got them after becoming Juubi Jinchuriki

      Naruto got his while his 9 Bijuu chakra mode was active. Maybe it has something to do with Juubi/Kaguya's chakra.

      Um, is it possible that this has something to do with using Yin-Yang Release?

      I just remembered the White Zetsu, who for the entire manga has been classified as a Wood Release (body as a plant) and a Yin-Yang Release (soul / mind + ?)?

        Loading editor
    • I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

      Tailed Beast is created by technique, and White Zetsu is created by technique, too.

      Killer B called the Zetsu Wood Release, and Madara claimed that they were created with the Yin-Yang Release.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

      Tailed Beast is created by technique, and White Zetsu is created by technique, too.

      Killer B called the Zetsu Wood Release, and Madara claimed that they were created with the Yin-Yang Release.

      Its clarified later on that they are human-plant mutants created by the God Tree/Kaguya

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

      Tailed Beast is created by technique, and White Zetsu is created by technique, too.

      Killer B called the Zetsu Wood Release, and Madara claimed that they were created with the Yin-Yang Release.

      Its clarified later on that they are human-plant mutants created by the God Tree/Kaguya

      Does this somehow contradict the elements that were used when creating them?

      - Release Yin-Yang (Yin - soul / consciousness Zetsu, Yang - life energy / revival) - Release Wood (the formation of a plant - like body that comes to life when the Yang is burned)

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

      Tailed Beast is created by technique, and White Zetsu is created by technique, too.

      Killer B called the Zetsu Wood Release, and Madara claimed that they were created with the Yin-Yang Release.

      Its clarified later on that they are human-plant mutants created by the God Tree/Kaguya

      Does this somehow contradict the elements that were used when creating them?

      - Release Yin-Yang (Yin - soul / consciousness Zetsu, Yang - life energy / revival) - Release Wood (the formation of a plant - like body that comes to life when the Yang is burned)

      None of those things were used. Madara and B were wrong

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: I have no idea what anything you just said is suppose to mean. White Zetsu is not a jutsu. White Zetsu are living, plant based creatures

      Tailed Beast is created by technique, and White Zetsu is created by technique, too.

      Killer B called the Zetsu Wood Release, and Madara claimed that they were created with the Yin-Yang Release.

      Its clarified later on that they are human-plant mutants created by the God Tree/Kaguya

      Does this somehow contradict the elements that were used when creating them?

      - Release Yin-Yang (Yin - soul / consciousness Zetsu, Yang - life energy / revival) - Release Wood (the formation of a plant - like body that comes to life when the Yang is burned)

      None of those things were used. Madara and B were wrong

      Okay, where's that disproved?

        Loading editor
    • Chapter 681. Black Zetsu said that the White Zetsu were just people trapped in the tree that he released

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Chapter 681. Black Zetsu said that the White Zetsu were just people trapped in the tree that he released

      How does that contradict, I don't understand? The Zetsu says where they came from in general. Did you see them when the Black Zetsu explains their origins? It's just bodies, pieces that don't look like the original.

        Loading editor
    • Because Madara thought he created them with YinYang.

      Madara didnt create them, they were trapped in the Mazo long ago by Kaguya. We know the jutsu used to create white Zetsu and its not YinYang

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Because Madara thought he created them with YinYang.

      Madara didnt create them, they were trapped in the Mazo long ago by Kaguya. We know the jutsu used to create white Zetsu and its not YinYang

      1) Nowhere is it refuted that these elements were used (Wood, Yin and Yang). 2) The technique that captures people in cocoons for a moment with Wood Release 3) After transformation in cocoons, these are no longer human beings, but living plants (Yang acts either as a reviving force or as a transformation of bodies) that have their own consciousness (Yin gives a new soul / new consciousness to bodies).

      It's simple. And yes, Madara also said that the White Zets came from the merger of Hashirama's cells and the Demonic Statue of the Outer Path, and then added that they were the result of the Yin-Yang Release. Do you really think Kishimoto is an idiot, or maybe you'll finally realise that there's a connection between these things?

        Loading editor
    • The people were not captured in wood release either. They caprured by the Shinju.

      Kishimoto, through Black Zetsu's exposition, is the one who explained that the White Setsu did not come from where Madara thought they did. You know what i think? Kishimoto made a retcon and you just cant wrap your head around that. What you need to realize is that madara was wrong, and B was wrong. As explained by Black Zetsu. So dont come at me like i'm a fuckin idiot when you cant seem to read the manga

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: The people were not captured in wood release either. They caprured by the Shinju.

      Kishimoto, through Black Zetsu's exposition, is the one who explained that the White Setsu did not come from where Madara thought they did. You know what i think? Kishimoto made a retcon and you just cant wrap your head around that. What you need to realize is that madara was wrong, and B was wrong. As explained by Black Zetsu. So dont come at me like i'm a fuckin idiot when you cant seem to read the manga

      I'm not saying Madara was right, he thought that the Zetsu appeared because of the fusion of cells with the statue, but he claimed that he created them with Yin-Yang Release. It's all practically on the same page. Ah, so you're for retcon, well, I'll put it this way. Before the retcon, White Zets were created with Yin-Yang Release?)

      P.S. If anything, Yin-Yang Release doesn't necessarily work the way Hagoromo used it to create animals.

        Loading editor
    • It doesnt matter how they were made before the retcon.

      YinYang works in lots of ways. Just like any other nature release.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: It doesnt matter how they were made before the retcon.

      YinYang works in lots of ways. Just like any other nature release.

      Show me the page regarding the retcon of Release Yin-Yang usage.

      Previously: White Zetsu appeared as a result of the fusion of Hashirama cells with a heretic statue. In doing so, Madara used Release Yin-Yang. As well as for what - unknown, but perhaps it was as I described above.

      Now: White Zetsu were pulled out of the statue by Black Zetsu, not the result of the merger of the statue and Hashirama cells. That's it.

      How does this "retcon" disprove the use of Yin-Yang? Did the Zetsu originally fall out alive and conscious? No.

        Loading editor
    • ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Show me the page regarding the retcon of Release Yin-Yang usage.

      It is in chapter 681. Black Zetsu explicitly explains that the White Zetsu were people trapped in the Mazo that he removed. The databook explains this as well

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      How does this "retcon" disprove the use of Yin-Yang?

      This discredits Madara's explaination of where they came from. He believed he created them using YinYang buuuut as BZ explained, that is not what happened

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Did the Zetsu originally fall out alive and conscious? No.

      Concsious? No. The Infinite Tsukuyomi put them to sleep while the Shinjuu kept them asleep & transformed them

      Alive? Yes. As i explained in the paragraph above

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote:

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Show me the page regarding the retcon of Release Yin-Yang usage.

      It is in chapter 681. Black Zetsu explicitly explains that the White Zetsu were people trapped in the Mazo that he removed. The databook explains this as well

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      How does this "retcon" disprove the use of Yin-Yang?

      This discredits Madara's explaination of where they came from. He believed he created them using YinYang buuuut as BZ explained, that is not what happened

      ReweR 1331 wrote:

      Did the Zetsu originally fall out alive and conscious? No.

      Concsious? No. The Infinite Tsukuyomi put them to sleep while the Shinjuu kept them asleep & transformed them

      Alive? Yes. As i explained in the paragraph above

      I never saw a refutation for using Release Yin-Yang.

      It was only refuted where the White Zetsu came from. If they were previously the result of the merger of the Hashirama cells and the statue, now they were simply pulled out of the statue by the Black Zetsu. That's it. Where has the use of Yin-Yang been disproved? Nowhere.

        Loading editor
    • Ok. Follow me on this one. Madara claimed to have created them with YinYang. BZ revealed that Madara did not make them. If Madara did not make them, then they are not the result of the method he believed he used to create them. Whatever Madara claimed about the origin of White Zetsu was wrong. He was tricked into believing those things by Black Zetsu.

      BZ and the databook explain that Madara had nothing to do with the creation of white Zetsu, and explained their true origins, which had nothing to do with YinYang.

        Loading editor
    • God bless you, LegionZero. You have the patience of a saint.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.