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  • Has it ever been stated that Rinnegan wielders are immune to the Sharingan's Genjutsu? Or as I'm really pondering: In what way are they immune? What brings about such immunity?

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    • I mean Itachi's sharingan was immune to sharingan genjutsu, and the rinnegan is basically an evolved mangekyou, so it should be even more resistant towards genjutsu than Itachi's

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    • No it was never stated that they had immunity.

      Kishimoto wasnt super clear that the Rinnegan being a Sharingan evolution was just a misconception by Kabuto/Orochimaru, so fans think it has all the perks of a Sharingan/Mangekyou Sharingan. We know this isnt true because Madara had to deactivate the Rinnegan and use the Mangekyou Sharingan to cast a genjutsu on A.

      Sasukenis the only Rinnegan user shown to use MS abilities and he got special mods from Hagoromo

      @Fan: Itachi is not immune to Sharingan genjutsu. Sasuke casted it on him to release him from Kabuto's genjutsu.

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    • LegionZero wrote: No it was never stated that they had immunity.

      Kishimoto wasnt super clear that the Rinnegan being a Sharingan evolution was just a misconception by Kabuto/Orochimaru, so fans think it has all the perks of a Sharingan/Mangekyou Sharingan. We know this isnt true because Madara had to deactivate the Rinnegan and use the Mangekyou Sharingan to cast a genjutsu on A.

      Sasukenis the only Rinnegan user shown to use MS abilities and he got special mods from Hagoromo

      I see.

      LegionZero wrote: @Fan: Itachi is not immune to Sharingan genjutsu. Sasuke casted it on him to release him from Kabuto's genjutsu.

      I think he's referring to Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan overpowering a 3TS user. Who, unknowing of Itachi's MS or level of power, tried to place him under Genjutsu to immobilize him. But Itachi's reflexes were so sharp, that he countered. Tekka Uchiha being the victim from the novel. @Fan, am I mistaken?

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    • Itachi's full MS Power with Tsukuyomi was only ever shown in the Novel, he actually intended to kill and not disable with that usage but it drained him more than usual. Every other time we read or see of him fighting he isn't actuaslly trying to kill with the Tsukuyomi because of the larger than usual drain risk. He did use it on thousands of bugs at once before he burnt the bugs and the user to ash.

      But no the Rinnegan is not immune to visual Genjutsu, though I do believe it could possibly be much harder to keep in a genjutsu. The only reason Itachi didn't try Genjutsu against Nagato is because Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto so Genjutsu wouldn't have done anything.

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    • Chicken sin of Stupidity wrote:

      I think he's referring to Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan, overpowering a 3TS user, who, (Unknowing of Itachi's MS, or level of power), tried to place him under Genjutsu, to immobilize him. But Itachi's reflexes were so sharp, that he countered. Tekka Uchiha being the victim from the novel.

      Thats not having an innate immunity. That is Itachi displaying his skill. The Sharingan/MS certainly help users deal with genjutsu but it doesnt make them immune to genjutsu

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    • Yeah, I guess that's what he thought about the situation.

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    • Madara had to revert his Rinnegan to the EMS in the fight with the 5 Kage to put Ay in a genjutsu, but was also able to use the Susanoo while blind. It's possible that the Susanoo works differently, but as we've never seen Madara's MS abilities, it's also possible to say the abilities of the Rinnegan are inconsistent. As it stands, I think it's left up to interpretation unless otherwise confirmed later down the line.

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    • Susanoo is only awakened with both MS eyes, Susanoo is used from the brain for the most part. Itachi did it while completely blind, and Madara did it with no eyeballs. Susanoo doesn't require the user to have eyeballs or his dojutsu active.

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    • I believe that this idea Rinnegan users are immune Sharingan-derived Genjutsu comes from the comment from Black Zetsu that Sasuke was immune to the effects of the Infinite Tsukuyomi due to the Rinnegan. People took this as an implication that other lower level Sharingan-derived Genjutsu, including Itachi's Tsukuyomi, must not have an affect on Rinnegan users, which I think is a reasonable conclusion. Obviously there's no hard direct evidence for that, but there certainly is indirect evidence.

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    • Well if the Rinnegan is immune to I.T. then maybe it is immune to visual genjutsu, that is possible. Senjutsu powered Sound Genjutsu is proven to work though so it isn't immune to ALL Genjutsu types.

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    • Rinnegan is kind of the direct counter to I.T. so its also likely that is the only reason it is immune to it

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    • I'm not sure what you mean by direct counter, but if you're talking about ending the jutsu, it's not the only prerequisite. You need the chakra of all nine Bijuu + Rinnegan to do that. And I don't think that it being one of the prerequisite invalidates the implication that the Rinnegan is immune to lower level Sharingan-derived genjutsus either.

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    • Good point. Seems visual Genjutsu really can't affect the Rinnegan.

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    • You have to admit that this rinnegan eye is really really strong and sharp

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    • 26nagato wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by direct counter, but if you're talking about ending the jutsu, it's not the only prerequisite. You need the chakra of all nine Bijuu + Rinnegan to do that. And I don't think that it being one of the prerequisite invalidates the implication that the Rinnegan is immune to lower level Sharingan-derived genjutsus either.

      Just, because the Rinnegan could counter Infinite Tsukuyomi, through doesn't mean it can counter all genjutsus:

      1. Sasuke's Rinnegan is different from other rinnegan's in that it has several tomoe.

      2. It was Sasuke's rinnegan powering up Susanoo, that stopped Infinite Tsukuyomi (IT), not the rinnegan alone.

      3. Being immune to IT doesn't mean being immune to every other ocular genjutsu. Edo Tensei were immune to IT, but weren't immune Kotoamatsukami.

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    • Ok so to be fair Koto-Amatsuki was never shown being used on a living Rinnegan user so that's not a usable example there.

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    • BrainBrand wrote:

      26nagato wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by direct counter, but if you're talking about ending the jutsu, it's not the only prerequisite. You need the chakra of all nine Bijuu + Rinnegan to do that. And I don't think that it being one of the prerequisite invalidates the implication that the Rinnegan is immune to lower level Sharingan-derived genjutsus either.

      Just, because the Rinnegan could counter Infinite Tsukuyomi, through doesn't mean it can counter all genjutsus:

      1. Sasuke's Rinnegan is different from other rinnegan's in that it has several tomoe.

      2. It was Sasuke's rinnegan powering up Susanoo, that stopped Infinite Tsukuyomi (IT).

      3. Being immune to IT doesn't mean being immune to every other ocular genjutsu. Edo Tensei were immune to IT, but weren't immune Kotoamatsukami.

      I take all your points. But Black Zetsu specifically pointed to his Rinnegan as to why he wasn’t affected. The Susano’o could be summed up as a shield for the others, though that’s speculation.

      But I think you’re missing my point. All I am saying is that there is reasonable evidence for someone to conclude that the Rinnegan is immune to Sharingan-derived genjutsu. The points you bring up aren’t evidence against that implication. There are certainly counterpoints anyone can bring up that could question that conclusion since we don’t have anything in verbatim. But as I said, in the end this is all speculation.

      BloodOfTheArchon wrote: Ok so to be fair Koto-Amatsuki was never shown being used on a living Rinnegan user so that's not a usable example there.

      That’s true but I think I understand his point, which is that the Edo-tensei were immune to infinite Tsukuyomi but not to Kotoamatsukami, so why can’t that be the case with the Rinnegan? Which is fine, but I don’t think that shows evidence contrary to the implication.

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    • Both Kakashi and Rinnegan Obito put each other in a genjutsu when they fought him in the Kamui dimension.

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    • I got the point

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    • And one can argue that Obito’s other eye, which was his own original sharingan, was the eye that allowed him to be prone to genjutsu.

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    • 26nagato wrote: And one can argue that Obito’s other eye, which was his own original sharingan, was the eye that allowed him to be prone to genjutsu.

      I doubt it, as far as which eye lines up with which eye, Obito's Rinnegan lines up with Kakashi's sharingan when they directly face each other. If they make eye contact the rinnegan is going to be looking into the sharingan.

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    • BrainBrand wrote:

      26nagato wrote: And one can argue that Obito’s other eye, which was his own original sharingan, was the eye that allowed him to be prone to genjutsu.

      I doubt it, as far as which eye lines up with which eye, Obito's Rinnegan lines up with Kakashi's sharingan when they directly face each other. If they make eye contact the rinnegan is going to be looking into the sharingan.

      Well, even if that was a valid point (which I don’t think it is considering your eyes can move lol), that’s not true. Kakashi was facing Obito. Kakashi’s left and and Obito’s right eye, both sharingans, were lined up with each other.

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    • @26Nagato

      Lol you're right I must have remembered the position of their eyes wrong.

      BloodOfTheArchon wrote: Ok so to be fair Koto-Amatsuki was never shown being used on a living Rinnegan user so that's not a usable example there.

      It is a useable example, because all I was trying to prove by using it is that being immune to IT, doesn't mean your immune to all ocular genjutsu, otherwise Edo Tensei summons would be immune to koto.

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    • It was specifically explained that Sasuke's Susanoo can block I.T.'s light. It seems that Six Paths Power/6 Paths Chakra is what grants immunity to I.T.

      The eyes dont have to be lined up to cast/counter genjutsu. Genjutsu takes control of the target's senses via the eyes. Not even the Sharingan can stop that, it just tips of the Sharingan user that there is a Genjutsu and can see the difference between real and fake.

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    • LegionZero wrote: It was specifically explained that Sasuke's Susanoo can block I.T.'s light. It seems that Six Paths Power/6 Paths Chakra is what grants immunity to I.T.

      No, six paths chakra was not attributed to immunity. If that were the case, Naruto would not have had to go under Sasuke’s Susano’o. And the Susano’o did block the light from the others (Naruto, Kakashi, and Sakura). But ultimately, the immunity, in the words of Black Zetsu, was attributed to the Rinnegan.

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    • Wasn't black Zetsu also immune to IT? Indicating that immunity is not solely based Rinnegan?

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    • Black Zetsu's immunity and the Rinnegans immunity are two separate things. We don't know why Black Zetsu was immune.

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    • I dont recall it ever being outrighted stated that the Rinnegan itself grants immunity to I.T. It was suggested/theorized that it was, but correlation=/=causation.

      The Susanoo being able to block IT wouldnt make sense as it isnt a Rinnegan Jutsu, suggesting that the Rinnegan users chakra has properties that block I.T., not their eyeball itself. And as we know, obtaining the Rinnegan also means getting 6 Paths Chakra.

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    • Having the Rinnegan whether it be transplanted or not there will always be 6 Paths Chakra in the eye. So either way it is still attributed to the Rinnegan itself, also Naruto has SPSM yet it was made clear that he would have been caught if he went outside.

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    • @LegionZero

      You're right it was never stated that the Rinnegan is immune to IT, just speculated.Th only known method of stopping IT from putting someone in a genjutsu is blocking the light from IT.

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    • BloodOfTheArchon wrote: Having the Rinnegan whether it be transplanted or not there will always be 6 Paths Chakra in the eye. So either way it is still attributed to the Rinnegan itself, also Naruto has SPSM yet it was made clear that he would have been caught if he went outside.

      "Made clear"

      How would Sasuke know? He has never experienced or witness the effects of I.T. That very well may just be a cautious assumption on his part.

      Getting 6 Paths chakra from the Rinnegan wouldnt mean the immunity is coming from the eye. Like i said before, correlation=/=causation. The immunity and the Rinnegan are correlated in that they are both the result of 6 Paths Chalkra

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    • In this case the authors intent was clear, if Naruto was outside he would have been caught. It was literally brought up twice.

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    • If it was authors intent then a well informed character would have said it.

      Or an explanation for Sasuke's knowledge would have been given

      Instead Sasuke cites his Susanoo as providing protection while Zetsu questions if it his Rinnegan

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    • If that's your argument then it applies towards the Six Paths chakra too, you have no proof that the SPC is the true reason alone. So then that whole argument is moot.

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    • There is no definitive proof of the Rinnegan being the sole reason either so your point is also moot.

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    • Black Zetsu knows how SPC works and what it is, he knows how I.T. works and what it is, he also knows how the Rinnegan works and what it is. He is literally Kaguya's Will. His only explanation he could think of was the Rinnegan. So if any evidence at all is to be presented logic will tell you that it is the Rinnegan itself which has SPC in it, which Naruto also has yet Sasuke and BZ expected Naruto to be caught if not for the Rinnegan and Susanoo usage from Sasuke protecting him. So evidence points toward it NOT being the SPC that makes the user immune to I.T. but the Rinnegan.

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    • BloodOfTheArchon wrote: Black Zetsu knows how SPC works and what it is, he knows how I.T. works and what it is, he also knows how the Rinnegan works and what it is. He is literally Kaguya's Will. His only explanation he could think of was the Rinnegan. So if any evidence at all is to be presented logic will tell you that it is the Rinnegan itself which has SPC in it, which Naruto also has yet Sasuke and BZ expected Naruto to be caught if not for the Rinnegan and Susanoo usage from Sasuke protecting him. So evidence points toward it NOT being the SPC that makes the user immune to I.T. but the Rinnegan.

      If he knows so well why is questioning or surprised by it. He isnt as all knowing as you make him out to be

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    • You don't get it, Chapter 677, Page 13 BZ says "The light can't penetrate that Susanoo? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" If BZ was referring to the SPC he would have said "His chakra" or "His Six Paths Chakra" not "His Rinnegan". BZ isn't thinking to attribute this to the Susanoo alone, he is attributing it to Rinnegan.

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    • LegionZero
      LegionZero removed this reply because:
      Accidental
      08:59, September 14, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • LegionZero
      LegionZero removed this reply because:
      another accidental im dumb
      09:00, September 14, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • BloodOfTheArchon wrote: You don't get it, Chapter 677, Page 13 BZ says "The light can't penetrate that Susanoo? His Rinnegan can deter even this jutsu?" If BZ was referring to the SPC he would have said "His chakra" or "His Six Paths Chakra" not "His Rinnegan". BZ isn't thinking to attribute this to the Susanoo alone, he is attributing it to Rinnegan.

      And Sasuke, the actual user is attributing it to Susanoo, while BZ is speculating.

      Considering that BZ was in control of a Rinnegan at that moment its bizarre he even has to specualte

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    • No he wasn't, Madara had both Rinnegan in his head and casted I.T. with the Rinne Sharingan. Sasuke attributed the Susanoo to being the reason Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi aren't affected by I.T. BZ's reason as to why it wasn't affecting Sasuke was the Rinnegan, he didn't say "Six Paths Chakra" or "his chakra"

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    • BloodOfTheArchon wrote:

      No he wasn't, Madara had both Rinnegan in his head and casted I.T. with the Rinne Sharingan.

      My bad. I mistook the Rinnegan pattern in his eye for being the actual Rinnegan

      BloodOfTheArchon wrote:

      Sasuke attributed the Susanoo to being the reason Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi aren't affected by I.T.

      And as the caster, we should take explanation over speculatory questions/observations of BZ

      BloodOfTheArchon wrote:

      BZ's reason as to why it wasn't affecting Sasuke was the Rinnegan, he didn't say "Six Paths Chakra" or "his chakra"

      No he questioned if it was the Rinnegan. Pure speculation on BZ's part.

      At the end of it, the only thing we know for sure is that Sasuke's Susanoo blocked the light.

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    • Hey guys why did my comment got removed?!

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    • A FANDOM user
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