Chapter 621 translation
Hi Seelentau, I want to ask about the third missing kanji of Hashirama's Hotei no Jutsu, have you found it? And about Hōbi no Jutsu, is it better to move the page to its literal name? or that's better? —Shakhmoot (Talk) 21:31, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
- Omni-san just added a third kanji for "Hotei", but I don't know if it's right or not. I checked a bad quality scanned panel for this jutsu. So it was unclear for me. And about the naming, let's wait for Viz translation of these technqiues to see what are the appropriate translations for that. —Shakhmoot (Talk) 22:07, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Re: Unconfirmed Kanji
Veil of Cat Fire
- So, "Wrapping Blaze Cat Fire" or "Wrapping Flame Cat Fire"? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:25, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
Hey Seelentau, ich find's zwar mittlerweile schon komisch sich hier auf deutsch zu unterhalten, aber was soll's! Ich arbeite als admin momentan auf einem anderen wiki aktiv mit und wir stehen gerade vor einem kleinen Problem. Viele Familiennamen werden ja in Japan mit Kanji geschrieben und jedes Kanji kann dabei unterschiedlich ausgelegt werden. Betrifft das auch die Vornamen? Die Namen in Hiragana zu schreiben wäre falsch, nicht wahr?
Daher frage ich dich, da du anscheinend auf diesem wiki mit am meisten japanisch verstehst (Hut ab dafür). Weißt du irgendeine Seite im internet, mit der man die Namen ermitteln könnte? Oder eine andere Methode? Wenn nicht, isses nicht schlimm, aber es würde auf jedenfall ungemein helfen! ;)
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
- Nun, wie die Kanji aussehen, weiß ich und auch, wie sie auf Romanji (heißt das so?) geschrieben werden. Ich wusste nur nicht, wie und worüber man Kanji erstellen kann. Die Seite, die du mir gegeben hast, sollte mir aber weiterhelfen können. Vielen Dank! ;)Norleon (talk) 15:06, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
Sage Mode Thoughts?
What's your opinion on the whole Sage Mode issue on its talk page? Do you think there are distinct types of it or something else (like me)? There's no general agreement, so we can't restructure the article until there is one. You know of anything in the manga to (somewhat) clear this up? Skitts (talk) 01:05, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, comrade Seelentau. This is my first time talk to u, nice to meet u ^_^. I just read in ur profile that u know some Japanese things. Can u (if u want or not busy) transate some names for me? THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 15:37, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah. Ok thankyou. Here:
- Jinpachi Mishima = 三島 仁八
- Heihachi Mishima = 三島 平八
- Kazuya Mishima = 三島 一八
- Jin Kazama = 風間 仁
- Jun Kazama = 風間 準
- Asuka Kazama = 風間 飛鳥
- Yoshimitsu = 吉光
- Kunimitsu = 州光
- Ganryu = 巌竜
- Kazumi or Kazume Mishima. (Not sure if this name is actually exist). Or, Miharu Hirano = 平野 美晴.
Hi, comrade. Sorry to disturb, I just want to know if u finished the translate. If u busy then took ur time, only when u r free if u wan. I just come to remind, sorry again for disturbing and thankyou ^_^. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 16:00, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, long time no talking comrade. Comrade, why don't u reply? I'm not angry of course, I just wanna know if u finished it, if I disturb u now then I'm sorry. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 21:02, April 11, 2013 (UTC)
Hi again comrade, ok understood, no need to apologize really, u were busy, and thank you very much for the translations ^_^. Could translate the page (link above)? No need for the name only the description, of course of u r free, sorry for disturbing and thank you ^_^. THANKYOU Small brother (talk) 06:24, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Isn't Niwaka Ame ni mo Makezu? Because we need to edit the music article to create this song article. Anyway, here is the source for the song title. —Shakhmoot (Talk) 20:51, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
Could you check the audio at Talk:Splitting Technique#Rename to Fission Technique.? As far as dialogue goes, we might have a name for the technique, similar to Mirage Genjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:15, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
What exactly does he say? I still can't get over the fact both scanlations got the number of brothers wrong. Is there any way what Madara said can be interpreted as "we're five brothers" instead of "I have five brothers"? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:49, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
Re: Only chapters
That's how it's done since before I came around. I presume it's because if you go to the chapter, there's a number and link to the volume. Volumes also list new characters. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, March 10, 2013 (UTC)
In chapter 597, page 6 if I'm not mistaken. Kakashi says something like "Ore no Kamui no Jikūkan (something else)". The way he says it, can "Kamui no Jikūkan" be considered a name for the dimension Kamui sends stuff to? There's a discussion in the page's talk about a rename. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:25, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Sound Four Technique
What is the exact translation? We currently have it as "Sound Four: Summoning Technique: Four Corner Beast Formation". Kanji and romaji seem to be correct going by Japanese Wikipedia (though they dropped the group's name from the technique's name). 音隠れ四人衆・口寄せ・四獣包囲の陣, Otogakure Yoninshū: Kuchiyose: Shijū Hōi no Jin. First two parts are easy, "Sound Four: Summoning: Four Beasts ??? Formation", but the other part has more translation options. Also, should the Four Beasts part be translated as that? It has two possible meanings, and both apply: Four different summons ("beasts"), and the Sound Four's standing in each direction being a reference to 四神. Maybe even 四神獣? And I have no idea what would be the best translation for 包囲. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:33, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Could you please take a look Mr. Tau? :D
Episode 306 translations
Hi Seelentau and how are you? I have two question for this episode, the first is what's the kanji of Eyebright that said here? I couldn't find the suitable kanji for that at all. The second is about Might Guy's taijutsu technique that used in this episode, what's it? Thanks —Shakhmoot (Talk) 16:42, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
Naruto movie 6
Hi Seelentau, I found in the Studio Pierrot blog webpage that the Earth Golems' name is revealed to be (土牢剛霊無, Dorō Gōremu). What's the exact meaning of its name? —Shakhmoot (Talk) 16:49, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
- There's a topic about it in the episode's talk page as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:22, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, please, once it becomes available, we would like that translated I guess ^_ sound effect signs should not be dismissed :P if not raw then viz would do, but that will take a while.--Elveonora (talk) 19:34, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Raws are available now. We also need a proper translation on Hashirama's new technique. As far as Tangorin can help me, it's "Summit/Top/Peak Transformed Buddha". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:02, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
Episode 308 translations
Hi Seelentau. If you have spare time, could you give the kanji names and literal meaning for these following techniques from the recent episode:
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Madara_Uchiha#creation_of_all_things if any of course, if so, would like to know what you think--Elveonora (talk) 16:49, April 14, 2013 (UTC)
More input needed, not just from you, but anyone, I find this unconcluded and confusing http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Chakra#life_force_topic I believe you have some original japanese sources at your disposal, is this anywhere specified?--Elveonora (talk) 13:08, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
Episode 309 translations
Hi Seelentau, I ask you about the country which appeared in this episode. According to the ending episode, it's called 此の国 (Ko no Kuni). But I couldn't find a suitable translation. The subtitles referred for it to "This nation". —Shakhmoot (Talk) 13:17, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, but we have to name this country to create its article. Should it better to called it (Land of This)??!! —Shakhmoot (Talk) 13:35, April 18, 2013 (UTC)
ancient Kirin topic
Just bored, so wanted to explain it to you. In order to "catch" the natural lightning, Sasuke has to use lightning natured chakra, it wouldn't work with ordinary chakra because there's no way it could reach that high, he just links the natural lightning in the sky with a super-weak chidori in hand like a magnet of sorts, shapes it using shape transformation alone and then brings it down using the link. So all in all, chidori/lightning release is needed to tame it, tho the monster itself isn't created with lightning chakra, that's why it isn't called Lightning Release: Kirin and yet it is one 0_o more examples of the same things are: Fire Release: Mist Blaze Dance Technique and Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning mist blaze uses natural fire to ignite fire release chakra natured gas and with Asuma's technique, the gun-powder is also coated in fire release chakra and then ignited by natural means. Again, I was just bored so it's for nothing, sorry for spamming ur talkpage :)--Elveonora (talk) 11:23, April 19, 2013 (UTC)
So, kanji for some of the ultimates from the game started to appear. I would have waited around a bit longer to add and ask for translations, but some other users already started adding them, so I checked to see if they matched the ones where I could find them. The ones with kanji for now are:
- Cat Fire Bowl. The very literal translation made this an easy one, but I'd like to put some trivia around the actual cat brazier in it, but I have no idea if it has a mythological or cultural significance to point out.
- Five-Mountain Jump. There was a wrong kanji in it, but I corrected it, and the translation is the same as far as I know, so no need to change anything I think.
- Freight Bubbles. I added the kanji for that one, because someone else had added the wrong ones, but I don't know if the game name is an accurate translation of the Japanese.
- Lightning Straight. I did my best to add the literal translation of the several kanji in it.
- Rough Sea Splash. I moved it from "Rough Sea Spume" when someone added the kanji.
- Scale Powder Blasting. We've had the kanji for that from day one basically, since they were readable in one of the earliest videos of the game.
- Scorching River Great Eruption. Another one I moved from the game name when someone added the wrong kanji. I put the kanji I found in more than one source.
- Sickle Mist Technique. The "Ninja Art" part was dropped, like in many articles. The only thing I'm not sure if it's "-kiri" or "-giri".
- Storm Release: Black Hunting. I added the kanji, put what I believe to be the proper pronunciation of the kanji in the trivia, and added literal English, which could use a more proper look.
- Sword of Kagutsuchi. Kanji were added when videos with good enough audio became available, they're correct.
- Tengai Shinsei. Actual kanji are finally available, and I think this will end up being left untranslated, kinda in keeping with some other Rinnegan techniques, particularly Deva Path ones, which this also seems to be.
- Mifune's ultimate is the only new ultimate we still don't have an article for, because we didn't even have the game name for it. The game name for it is "Resident Decapitation", and the only source I have on the Japanese says his ultimate is called 居斬 (いきる, Ikiru). I'm certain that in this technique or in at least one of the above there's a pun or word-play I did not find or recognise.
I'm still going through sites and lists, and I was able to gather a significant portion of the techniques used in the Ultimate Ninja series, though the thread I made about it in the forums is not up to date with what I have, I'm trying to translate as much as I can before asking for help. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:58, April 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Like I said, I'm trying to get as many game jutsu kanji done by myself before asking for you to take a look at it, because when I do ask for it, it'll be a lot. I have a 50 page long file where I'm listing everything I can. Most of it is already in a thread I made in the forums, spanning from UN1 through UN5, and UNS, but it's still missing UNI/S2/SG/S3 techniques in the thread. Most of UNS2/G is coming from the site I got UNS3 info, since most characters' movesets didn't change, only bummer is that they all lost a combo in UNS3, so there's usually one technique being left out, but that site still hasn't published all the movesets. I'm also trying to find Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3 stuff, since that in the Japanese games, that is sort of what would UN6 would have been (UN4, 5 and that are from the same series subset), but so far all I managed are youtube videos, which are harder to get kanji out of. Something I discovered since making the topic, is that kamakiri, written with the same kama kanji, but using a different kanji for the kiri part, is the word for a praying mantis. I'm sort of wondering in the pun is deliberate, and an indication that the romaji would actually be kamakiri instead of kamagiri. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:54, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
Hi Seelentau, wondering why you removed my edit on Kotoamatsukami regarding the decade limitation between uses?... Do you not agree with what I wrote? Thanks. --UchihaFan (talk) 17:44, April 29, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with you that what I wrote can't be proven literally from manga facts.
Consequently, the following statement from Shisui's page "This genjutsu however, could only be used once a decade, unless the user had a way to augment the process such as with Hashirama Senju's cells, thereby drastically reducing the time required from ten years to only a few hours." would also be circumstantial conjecture at best and not pure manga facts.
There are only two references to the use of Kotoamatsukami by Shisui :
1- Ao fought Shisui and has full knowledge of the ability of his Mangekyō Sharingan.
2- Shisui tried using Kotoamatsukami to prevent the coup d'etat.
At the time of his death, Shisui was about the same age as Itachi : around 17 years old... If you assume he did not awake his Mangekyō Sharingan before the age of 7 AND that he can only use Kotoamatsukami twice every decade (once for each eye) then you must conclude that the fight with Ao and the coup d'etat are the only two times Shisui used Kotoamatsukami!
Furthermore, we know the use of Sharigan by non-Uchiha such as Kakashi is very taxing on chakra, thus it is more than reasonable to assume that the use of Mangekyō Sharingan by a crow would be even more so, to the point that it would take a decade for it to "recharge".
Thank you for support ^_ dunno why do people have issues with that. Although, I would like you to check Kakashi's and then Rin and Obito's ninja registration numbers. Is it obviously a retcon, since as of the number, Kakashi was originally to graduate before them, not along with them--Elveonora (talk) 21:11, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I obviously know that since I'm saying the same. But Kakashi's ninja registration number is uneven to those of Obito and Kakashi, suggesting difference of years between his participation in the academy and theirs. At least that's how I understand those numbers, Kakashi's is 009720 while Obito and Rin's are 010886 and 010885, suggesting the other two were in the same bunch of graduates--Elveonora (talk) 21:31, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
Do you understand how the Itachiwashero guy counts? I'm not getting his schematics, I don't want to offend and state him to be wrong, even though I'm more or less certain that Obito is around 34 now. Either I'm too dumb or he isn't explaining it properly.--Elveonora (talk) 10:47, May 10, 2013 (UTC)
From the Old Man and the Dragon's Eye, during the episode, he's also called "Master Chen". What does: Provide an official name translate into exactly? Lord Tangorin gave me some translations, but they don't quite fit Chen. They only fit if I sort of translate them separately, which would result into something like "Old Master". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:31, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
Sakumo killing Sasori's parents matter
I know there isn't any specific reference for this, but the war had begun before Nagato turned 10 (since then was after when Jiraiya began teaching him and noted him to have mastered all basic nature transformation and shit at that age) and Nagato's age during his death is around 42, unless I'm mistaken. Sasori's parents died before he turned 5 since that's when grandma with wooden hand started to teach him puppetry, so let's say 4. 35 (his age) - 4 = 31. 42 (Nagato's age) - 31 years of difference = 11 and as you may know, Second World War as still raged when Nagato was 11, so Sakumo indeed killed the parents during that war. I'm bringing this up because you have removed that from articles--Elveonora (talk) 19:18, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
If we assume the Ame Orphans were about the same age which is safe to I guess, Yahiko died as about 25 years old, SINCE Chouji described him as a man in between 25-30 years old by his appearance, the former being more likely. He died about 17 years before current events during the very end of 3rd Shinobi World War, well... 25+17=42, that's it. Since I doubt Nagato and Konan were older than that, that's their most probable age. Even if it's off by a little bit up or down, Sakumo still killed Sasori's parents during 2nd Shinobi World War for fuc*ing SURE, since it began some time before Nagato's parents died and lasted up to his maturity. Glad I could help--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Depends, Sasori was 35 as we know. It's not that much of an assumption, let's say Yahiko was rather 30 than 25. 54 (Jiraiya's age) - 17 = 37, I doubt there was only 7 year difference between Ame Orphans and J-man when he began teaching them, that would have made him 17 when fighting Hanzo so improbable, Sannin were like in their early 20's so Nagato and Konan being 42 is a very close approximate rather than assumption. We don't know exactly when 2nd Shinobi World War started, but it was before Nagato turned 10 and lasted up to their maturity. And since there is 7 years of difference between Sasori and Nagato (circa) and the former's parents died before he turned 5, there was definitely a war when Nagato was 11. I mean, it's not completely baseless, is it?--Elveonora (talk) 16:27, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Hopefully you don't take a disagreement personally, you can think anything you want about me but you aren't an authority I must agree with, even though I respect you greatly for things you have done for this place and all. I just think in that case, you are seeing more to it than there is. We were told everyone has an affinity and that Uchihas had one for fire, nowhere it suggests the nature itself is hereditary, rather the talent for it is, because if what you are saying was true, then all Uzumakis would share a single chakra nature or any clan with heavy inbreeding for that matter. The reason why Uchihas do is because it's a tradition to use Katon and what's being passed down with the genes is talent, even a person unrelated to Uchiha may have fire affinity.--Elveonora (talk) 19:50, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Re-reading some stuff more in-depth, you might be right actually. It would appear that some people's chakra "lean" towards a certain nature. The whole Kakuzu hearts thing hints as such--Elveonora (talk) 21:30, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if you get on Fan sites but I currently Run http://naruto-fandom.wikia.com/wiki/Naruto_Fandom_Wiki. I am now looking for admins on the wikia, and ways to figure out how to let people create characters using the infoboxes you guys have here. Let me know if you could possibly help please.
Just would like your personal opinion on these:
- http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Ten-Tails#species/classification%20again%20... the topic is dead, so just to talkpage please
- http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Earth_Release:_Earth_Shore_Return#Shinobi%20Alliance something has to be done
- http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Kabuto_Yakushi#the_article_as_is transfusion and transplants do not alter DNA
- http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Six_Paths_of_Pain#Madara_Says :-/
- http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Orochimaru#when_head_hit_a_wall a serious one
So you do in fact agree with some of my sentiments? But this is a wiki, shouldn't be about "who is right" but "what is correct" The only "evidence" they would likely accept is if Kishimoto himself has appeared sitting on their laps, whispering into their ears, while massaging their nipples, this reminds me the whole "is Orochimaru a Sage?" case and many religion-science related topic I have had in the past, I know it's unrelated to this show, but trying to convince fanatics in delusion is pretty much the same. Still, I'd like to hear at least your personal opinion on topics 1, 3 and 5. The author is limited in how much he can explain things and progress the plot at the same time, the manga chapters are getting shorter and shorter... (no idea why is that, but perhaps it's not selling enough?) Funny, since the topics were brought up because the manga ITSELF says otherwise to what we have listed here. First, it's clear Kishimoto obviously has a pretty clear distinction between DNA and cells. A foreign cell doesn't alter DNA of host cell, at least in most cases not, especially not blood cells, unless it's a parasitic virus. The only thing that blood juice did to Kabuto was the injected cells were trying to defeat Kabuto's immune system, procreate and replace his own cells, but his body WON and reverted the process. Kishimoto EVEN bothered to explain what happened to Kabuto and why he looked like that by drawing Jugo and having him clarify it was a result of Sage Transformation (Jugo's own mutative ability), commenting on Orochimaru's doing, that what he did was absorb the chakra that Kabuto had from Anko and undo his Senninka. So already two-three things are false on Narutopedia:
- we state he is a mutant, which is false
- that Orochimaru's DNA was responsible for his form, while he purposely took on that form
- for this, people get confused ans speculate that he lost these powers, which is false, Orochimaru didn't suck out his blood or anything.
The one about white-snake guy's sealing is an obvious one, I don't think I have to repeat myself for 50th time. And at last, Jubi's classification as a "tailed beast" is definitely incorrect, I'm 99% sure of that. Not only it's false, but we should update information as more is getting revealed, the latest pieces of information state it's a deity, so we should list it as such. Another thing, Demonic Statue of the Outer Path and Ten-Tails should have been merged long ago in my opinion. Sorry if it's too long :-/--Elveonora (talk) 12:36, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
The big one
Well, here it comes. The single, most massive translation check request you'll ever receive. Going through the sources linked and mentioned at forum topic, I have done my best to list pretty much every possible technique in the Ultimate Ninja series. There are still a few to come in, but that depends on the site I get kanji for UNS3 updating. At the moment, all the kanji I can copy and paste from somewhere else is listed and translated. The only specific aid I can still provide, other than answering particulars about some translations here and there, is to link specifically for the UNH3 moveset videos, since that one, I wasn't able to find actual moveset lists that I can copy and paste. Don't hesitate to bug me about it, you'll probably want once you see the size of list, if you haven't already. The list. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:31, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
Your skills are required
But doesn't lineage go both ways, meaning Uzumaki could have been first? This is his response to your translation:
- There is no word there that says descend 降りる from Senju Lineage, it says of Senju Lineage/Blood Relations (Kettō), you will never find the descend or descendant Kanji on that text. The Viz Translation uses "of"
- We have here the Younger Son who clearly isn't known to have had red hair, in fact if we look at the anime depiction, the hair color is black and none of his shown Senju descendants did have red hair.
- Then suddenly there's a "descendant" clan (Uzumaki) of the Younger Son whose pure blooded members (Naruto is half) all have red hair? Impossible. Obviously the Uzumakis like ancient clans practice "inbreeding" that they have always had red hair.
Taking Biology into account, hair is one of the most consistent genes, and having the same color of hair in a clan who inbreeds is true. It doesn't make sense that a "descending" clan could develop such an unorthodox hair color if the original hair color was a different color. The interbreeding clan (Senju) would have to have red hair, or a strong dominant gene for it, but the Senjus don't, and red hair in itself is a recessive gene in humans.
Oh, also unrelated, but latest chapters again likely wrongly supports that Hashirama had lived long enough to see Tsunade develop super strength, so about her late childhood/early adolescence I would say... unless she was born like that. Databooks suggest one thing, manga SEVERAL others. Chapter cover 303 says that by Part II. it's been 50 years since his death, meaning he died when Tsunade was 4 .__.--Elveonora (talk) 15:56, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
You are correct, it's missing in the volume release. This is the only thing I could get http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/739/132537/1.jpg ... could be photoshopped or otherwise added by anyone but Kishimoto? take a look before it gets deleted :P--Elveonora (talk) 13:55, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
Tailed Beasts were created in the Jubi's image and share its chakra, their souls were inserted by Rikudou Sennin. Black Zetsu was created in image of White Zetsu, shares his power and is Madara's will embodied. I strongly believe what Madara did back there was Creation of All Things--Elveonora (talk) 20:53, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Yes. It's about concept, both cases were created from something (Tailed Beasts from Jubi's chakra, Black Zetsu from White Zetsu's body) and forms of both are embodiment of will/imagination - Yin and then blown life with - Yang. Well, White Zetsus are clones of Hashirama or rather even possibly clones of Hashirama's Living Clone but as you can see, the latter has no soul/consciousness. Zetsus look NOTHING like Hashirama despite having his DNA, meaning their form was Madara's invention "yin" and he made them alive unlike HLC with "yang" Uchiha Madara in the end, indeed is a lesser version of Sage of Six Paths, also stated by Kabuto.--Elveonora (talk) 21:59, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
No. Also Tailed Beasts weren't created from Jubi, just its chakra. Seemingly even after the process, some had left since Madara sucked it to stay alive. In both cases, something serves as a medium (chakra, body) Rikudou Sennin didn't have to completely (or almost completely) rid the Jubi of its chakra, it was in order to defeat it. Since only a fragment of each of the Tailed Beasts' chakra is/would be enough to revive it, so would have been a fragment enough to create them in the first place. White Zetsus were definitely created with Yin-Yang release too, not only Madara's statement suggests it, but also Swirl Zetsu serves as enough of a proof to me, his forms represents... lack of imagination :D He might have been the very first before Madara settled on the final "design"--Elveonora (talk) 22:46, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
For you it represents a different technique somehow, while to me it seems to be the same thing. The separation part isn't mandatory to the technique. As I said, So6p didn't have to make Jubi an invalid, he could have just used a little bit of its existing chakra rather than permanently removing it from its body and splitting it. But I strongly believe that a medium may be a necessity (not a requirement tho) for Creation of All Things, since there's only as much "imagination" can do. It's easier to do it according to a template/from something than to make nothing turn into existence. Both White and Black Zetsus were created using yin-yang release. Hash's cells as a medium => giving it form and other qualities/attributes with yin => giving it life with yang. For BZ, using already shaped Hash from WZ => turning it into will embodied thus slightly altering its mind and form with yin => giving it life with yang.
I know where you think is a difference though. Adam being made of soil/dirt while Eva from his rib? Now, what more reasoning do you still have for Madara not being BS user?--Elveonora (talk) 13:43, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
He did, he didn't take a part of WZ like his rib and made BZ from it, he created BZ only accordingly to WZ to fit him, notice that BZ is different, so there's body forming. He only glued them together, BZ didn't grow from WZ's body--Elveonora (talk) 16:10, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
I'm saying he didn't grow from his body, by "gluing" I meant that BZ grew in place where WZ has half his side missing. He isn't his alter-ego since they are both separate individuals, so the comparison doesn't work--Elveonora (talk) 16:21, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
You are right. But how does that change being yin-yang release? Even Madara says so. Cool, so WZ's leg was sacrificed to make BZ, they both are still separate entities though. Think of them as of conjoined twins--Elveonora (talk) 16:40, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
I don't think all YYR techniques work the same, creating stuff and **** therefore it must be the same technique Rikudou Sennin used. Izanagi is Yin-Yang Release too, yet it's not "creation" rather manipulation of tangible and intangible, switching them around. I believe either manga states it's it soon, or next databook will list him, but I think we should list him already now, there's not much harm, is there? EDIT: also I believe GoDai already has an explanation for the whole "shinobi alliance doton users" thingy--Elveonora (talk) 17:17, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
In mangastream's version of 632, they put in these two pages after the colour spread, seems to be a sort of recap about Naruto and Sasuke. In this Pierrot blog post, there seems to be something about Road to Ninja and the Prologue to Road to Ninja episode. Something interesting in either of these? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:51, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
should explain the alliance thing?
A nature can be used either as an energy with each having unique properties, or as a material. And according to Godai, using pre-existing source of material (which is more than likely true since it's suggested by usage of techniques) requires less of elemental chakra to manipulate and less skill too. For an example, using nearby water source to form a dragon is less taxing and difficult than what Tobirama did against Hiruzen in manga, creating it from chakra. So same goes for the Earth Wall. Everyone's chakra can be changed into either of the five natures. While it takes years of training to use nature besides one's own affinity, the chakra has since it must have hints of all 5, otherwise it should be possible to change it into anything, not just those main things. The "affinity leaning" must be something contained within cells of an individual which create the chakra rather than the chakra itself, supported by having an organ transplanted giving a nature to the recipient, while getting chakra restored with transfer technique or absorbing it from anyone, DOESN'T grant a new nature. It all supports my understanding ;-) but back to the point.
So while it may be difficult for someone with Wind affinity to use Fire, Hand Seals should help, since they make control and concentration easier. So in my opinion and I strongly believe it, anyone can create elemental chakra of any x from the 5 natures to a lesser extent. For example Naruto was told to imagine two forces grinding edges against each other which would thin and sharpen his chakra in order to create stronger and more of wind natured chakra. So perhaps Katon chakra is being created by thinking of sensation of heat? Water by concentrating about wet and imagining waves? Well in short, if the lesser extent is true and with the GoDai stuff, using pre-existing earth from ground made it much easier, while they wouldn't be able to use it like Hiruzen did, spitting it from mouth. As much and you dislike it and don't want to hear it, if true it says than anyone can do (as long as skilled enough) a basic let's say C or D rank Katon, Doton, Suiton, Raiton and Fuuton technique with hand seals and available material medium. Even though Naruto's affinity is Wind, he isn't skilled at Fuuton, since he can just create amount and maintain it long enough to combine it with shape transformation and form a Shuriken. But he is yet to be shown infusing/enhancing already existing air with wind chakra like Temari, and nowhere close to Danzo (which I would say was the most impressive user) blowing sharp air from mouth. So in short, Naruto is the same level Fuuton user as Shikamaru, Chouji and Ino are Doton, a low one. But he had to combine it with Rasengan and it was hard due to "looking left while also looking right" thingy and he has to use wind natured chakra as energy to do this, while the 3 had benefit of using existing material and doing only very basic form of shape transformation. Disagree?--Elveonora (talk) 18:19, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
That's not really how it works because your saying that by thinking of a certain scene or sensation you can use any element and it shouldn't be hard for naruto to do fire style the thing is that you have to do apply Nature Transformation to change your chakra to a specific type.Whiteraven1 (talk) 18:39, June 2, 2013 (UTC)