Hello Thomas Finlayson, greetings and welcome to the Narutopedia! Thanks for your edit to the Earth Release: Dropping Lid page.

We do hope that you will stay for a long time. Enjoy your stay as we work to become the best Naruto info site out there. BELIEVE IT!

If you're looking for something to do why not look over the Forums or more specifically Narutopedia Collaboration for a list of projects we're working on. And the Community portal has a lot of recent discussions and places to go listed on it.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Snapper2 (Talk) 00:19, January 26, 2010

Image policy

You should read the image policy. Also, could you tell me what chapter File:Tenzo_Hiding_in_the_Rock.JPG? Simant (talk) 04:33, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

okay, thanks. I updated the information. Simant (talk) 04:38, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion: Wind Release Wind Cutter manga.JPG

Thomas Finlayson, the image Wind Release Wind Cutter manga.JPG which you uploaded has been deleted. We suggest you look over our image policy before you upload another image to make sure you aren't breaking any part of the policy. Jacce | Talk 06:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion: Unkown Konoha Wind Release.JPG

Thomas Finlayson, the image Unkown Konoha Wind Release.JPG which you uploaded has been deleted. We suggest you look over our image policy before you upload another image to make sure you aren't breaking any part of the policy. Jacce | Talk 06:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion: Tenzo Hiding in the Rock.JPG

Thomas Finlayson, the image Tenzo Hiding in the Rock.JPG which you uploaded has been deleted. We suggest you look over our image policy before you upload another image to make sure you aren't breaking any part of the policy. Jacce | Talk 06:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Hidden in Rock Technique

Read the image policy and I not sure those are the same moves since one's an anime-only technique.--Deva 27 (talk) 22:21, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Then what is it? - Talk - Contributions 5:53, April 9, 2010 (UTC)


Please, stop adding that Sasuke has more than one summon. He summoned snakes only because he had absorbed Orochimaru, who had a contract with the snakes. Pain still is the only example of multiple animal summons. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:35, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

That does not make sense. Orochimaru was training Sasuke all of his techniques; do you really believe that he would not teach him his signiture technique? I will concede to the ones coming out of his curse mark, but as for the rest I say summoning spell. - Talk - Contributions 5:53, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
Since Itachi sealed Orochimaru, Sasuke hasn't used a single snake technique. It was assumed that Orochimaru gave him the contract, but as he hasn't used snake techniques since Orochimaru, this was called into question. Other than Pain, everyone else can summon only one species, and Sasuke summonened a hawk, meaning he had to sign a contract with them, something that wouldn't be possible if he already had a contract with another species. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:24, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

First of all, do we have positive proof (databook, manga, etc.) where it Says only one summoning? - Talk - Contributions 6:31, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think there is, but I'm not 100% sure. You'd have to ask someone with access to them. But even if there isn't, there was never confirmation that Sasuke signed a contract with the snakes to begin with. He only used snake techniques after absorbing Orochimaru, and stopped using it after Orochimaru was sealed. It's only logical to think that was the source of his snakes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:36, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

I will grant you that the timing of Sasuke's using snakes is suggestive, but pre-absorbtion his chidori was sufficient so he may not have felt the need. As for after Itachi took Orochimaru out we have to consider his pride; he wanted to use the techniques of his Uchiha heritage over that of Orochimaru, especially after he had declared he was no longer a snake. Plus, it is also logical to assume that Orochimaru would have taught Sasuke how to summon. In other words, a deadlock. Any suggestion? - Talk - Contributions 6:47, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Naruto still seems to be the only member of Team Seven to have learned the Summoning technique from a Sannin. Naruto learned from Jiraiya, it seemed that Sasuke had learned from Orochimaru, though considering what is known, the least speculative statement is that he didn't learn it, and Sakura, even during her training with Tsunade, didn't learn the Summoning technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:37, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

In other words, hair splitting. Okay, new track. When Jiraiya was fighting the Animal Pain, why was he unsurprised to see someone using multiple summons? In two different translations he simply takes it in steed. Granted he could have assumed that it was the power of the Rinnegan, but if Nagato really was the only person to be capable of it, would he not show more surprise? - Talk - Contributions 3:57, April 10, 2010 (UTC) One curious detail to add that I just noticed: Jiraiya summoned Gamaken in a manner similiar to Nagato (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/374/15/), which gives Jiraiya even less reason to believe that it may be a bloodline technique. - Talk - Contributions 3:57, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Like you said, he could have thought it was a power that came along with the Rinnegan. It's one of those all-but-blantanly stated things. Saying people can have only one summon has always worked, and the recent event with Sasuke can still be explained through the Orochimaru absorption. It's still consistent. What do you mean, the clapping of hands? Many techniques use clapping of hands as final seals. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:07, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

No blood was used, just like Pain. The significance being that Pain's ability is already a little less unique and that Jiraiya may have just assumed Nagato's technique to merely be an advanced, though still normal, form of summoning. In the entire series there has been no shock at someone violating a fundamental law of summoning. As for consistancy, not many people use animal summons, and when they do the summons tend to be powerful or diverse enough that they do not need to rely upon any other animals.- Talk - Contributions 4:11, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Sasuke's summoning of Snakes is through his absorption of Orochimaru. Nagato's summoning of multiple animals can be explained very easily. He has not contract is is only summoning dead bodies in the same way he summons people, dead or alive after seeing him summon Konan. The manga has shown it's indeed possible to summon people as shown during teh Chunin exams. ¥ Super Novice Talk 2 Me ¥ 23:25, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

As I said above, it would be logical for Orochimaru to have taught Sasuke how to summon snakes; it is the basis for most of his abilities, and he was teaching a lot to Sasuke as well. - Talk - Contributions 4:29, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

There's no actual proof of that.--Deva 27 (talk) 23:32, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

If you were Orochimaru, what would you teach Sasuke. If you were Sasuke, especially after seeing Orochimaru's summoning ability in the Forest of Death and Naruto's summoning of Gambunta, what is one of the abilities you would want to learn over a 2.5 year period? - Talk - Contributions 5:17, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what we think it's about what has been shown to use. We can't assume anything because then it's not longer fact, but fiction. ¥ Super Novice Talk 2 Me ¥ 00:18, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

That a person can only summon one type of animal is also an assumption, we have had no proof of the matter. - Talk - Contributions 5:24, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

hmm, seem sascuke used his eyes to control Manda and he could have got the snakes from getting orimachi blood into him which may allow him to summon two beast. Though he hasent used the snakes in a wile it could be that once Manda dead there all dead.—This unsigned comment was made by Zetsu123 (talkcontribs) .

Re: Dirt

What was the floor made of? Why couldn't that be turned into earth? - SimAnt 20:17, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like rock to me.- Talk - Contributions 1:23, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

I guess rock is not a earth type substance to you... - SimAnt 20:26, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

LOL. No, my point is earth jutsu has been shown to involve both rock and/or dirt and I thought it should be clarified. Is that clear enough?- Talk - Contributions 1:51, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Talk page

Try using it to solve problems. - SimAnt 03:28, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

LOL I do not know how to start a new one for a jutsu! :-D. Plus there is no guarantee anyone will pay any attention.- Talk - Contributions 8:32, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

It's related to you not knowing how to use the talkpage, and revert warring. - SimAnt 00:40, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
1) I never saw you guys trying it for the Golem. 2) By completely cutting me off it looks more like you are trying to impose your views and denying anyone else the ability. Unfortunately I now have no choice on this matter so I may as well go along. The question of course is whether or not you or anyone else will respond. --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 6:49, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
Minor question by the way, why is it that you can do this, keep someone from editing something that they think is necessary, when you may be wrong about it? Kinda ruins the whole point of this site if someone can just forbid everyone else from contributing; especially if they did not try talk page either. Just curious.—This unsigned comment was made by Thomas Finlayson (talkcontribs) .
Locking a page and reverting it to the state that it was before the dispute has been the practice here for awhile, if the page is being constantly reverted. It is a means to encourage people to use the talk page. - SimAnt 03:06, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
And how is it decided when it should be unlocked? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 8:39, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Talkpage

Towards the top right, there is a tab that says discussion click that and start the talk page. - SimAnt 04:23, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Um... none of those have been blocked recently. - SimAnt 20:19, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
I mean none of them has protection higher than autoconfirmed user on them, which you should be able to edit by now. - SimAnt 20:23, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
You already edited A, and someone seems to have removed most of your edit. - SimAnt 20:25, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
Then you were probably not logged in when you tried. - SimAnt 20:31, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Blocks

When a page is targeted for excessive vandalism, I lock/protect them so only confirmed users can edit it for a while. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:33, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

For now I use one month protection. If that doesn't help, I will make it longer until I reach "eternity". I'm not completely sure on how becomming a confirmed user, but here is what I think is needed. The first is that the user allows the wiki to send a confirmation letter to the users e-mail. The user needs to press the link in the mail, thus confirming it. The address can later be removed, so people can't send e-mails to the user. Then the user must have made at least 100 edits or edit pages for ten days. The last part is however more speculating then the first part. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 19:46, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

If you mean adding the technique to Danzo's userbox, the userbox will do it by itself. It usually takes 24 hours. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:42, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Then you should talk to User:Simant. He made the system. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:50, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
No, he made the self updating infobox system. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 06:53, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Killer Bee Kenjutsu

Yup, I'm the one who removed it. While it makes sense and all, it doesn't come from the manga itself, it wasn't said in any source, be it manga, anime, game, movie, databook or artbook. If you still wish to have that information on the page, I suggest putting that forward in the talk page, making all the proper explanations, all nice and neat. Convince people of that information's accuracy and validity. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re:Grand Fireball

If the Databook says a specific range, its not for us to decide.--Deva 27 (talk) 00:07, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

  • Databook's short range is for technique which act from 0 to 5 meters. That distance doesn't seem to be over 5 meters to me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:12, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
It seems to be pushing it for me, but not close enough to argue over. Fair enough, I was unaware that 0-5m was for short-range. Could you post all of the ranges on the web for those of us who do not have databooks for future reference? --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 5:15, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
Medium range is from 5 to 10 meters, long range is 10+. I don't have a scan, but ShounenSuki's translations are very reliable, as you know. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:28, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
Never saw this before!! Thanks!!! --Thomas Finlayson (talk) 6:30, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
It does seem to affect further than 10+, but it might be explained by the range being where the technique can be initiated. Anyway, if there's info comes from the databooks, it's not up to us to question it, otherwise the text of Iron Sand World Order would have been changed a long time ago, see its talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:30, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
My advice is to go to the talk page and argument your way through it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:38, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


Yah... uh the talkpages are for resolving article problems/improvements. You can't expect all talkpage discussions to be solved instantly, you need to be patient so that editors can read comments and choose to respond if they want to. Also, you should probably read the talkpage policy. - SimAnt 10:20, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Never said you were violating it. Just going a lil off-topic of improvements, sorry to say I really don't see why something like that needs to be discussed. - SimAnt 17:56, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Lightning Release Armour Consequences

That doesn't mean that there are consequences for using the jutsu and its speculation saying they that are concerned.--Deva 27 (talk) 02:44, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe they are scared for their own safety? - SimAnt 03:15, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
My point was, if you don't have 100% evidence it's not gonna go in the page. - SimAnt 03:31, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
If you see something that is there without any evidence feel free to remove it. - SimAnt 03:38, May 21, 2010 (UTC)
Do not go for the "most likely" that is not the goal. - SimAnt 03:44, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Do not use the Wiki as a soapbox

It's bad form, it's annoying to people, and does little to get your point across. In more free words, it makes you look like an ass and quickly causes people to dismiss whatever it is you have to say. You said you want a discussion, then we will discuss if in the talk pages. But do not go about mass editing articles as a means to start a discussion. That will only lead to bad things.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

My apologize. I have more to do with my time than spend hours here. There is a lot of things I miss. That being said, the article was deleted because it already existed. If that was to be debated and what not, it should have remained on the talk page. If nobody brings it up, bump it up for the Recent Changes thing, but do not go out creating and changing a bunch of things as a way to force a discussion.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:21, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Any edits made anywhere will show up on Recent Changes. It's basically how most users (I believe) follow the recently edited aritlces on the wiki. Very very simple.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Look at the search field in the left side of the page. There are a couple menus, and just below the Animanfa Hub, there are some links. The first one is the Recent changes one. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:50, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Nano-Sized Bugs Technique

It was decided that it wasn't a jutsu.--Deva 27 (talk) 18:27, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Jiraiya and Summoning

Starting the exact same discussion in two pages isn't a good idea because it keeps the discussion split. I suggest that instead of creating it in both talks, make it in the most relevant talk, and leave a link to that one in the other talk. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:10, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


Hi Look, maybe you should stop arguing with admins(about mutations or whatsoever) Theirs is the last. If they want they will delete that page and lock it or can block you. Ttogafer (talk) 21:31, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Come now, Ttogafer. You make me sound evil as the Sith. If Finlayson was ban worthy, he'd be gone a long time ago. There is nothing wrong with most of edits. The mutation thing however...--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:38, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
Sometimes you guys do come down a tad strong, though I admit the fact that you have not banned me does indicate you are fair. The thing is though you guys do seem a tad...locked into the databooks, believing if it is not listed it does not exist. I feel that since I do not have one I raise more questions and try to organize stuff more since there is more I am unaware of. Thomas Finlayson (talk) 21:41, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
As is the fate of things when there are official sources of information. Basically, because they come from Kishimoto himself, whatever's in the databook is law. If it's not in the databook, we have to go about it within reason in respect to the series. For example Nine-Tailed Fox Menacing Ball is not in the databooks, but we sure as hell saw it in the manga. That is an example of something presented within reason.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:55, June 5, 2010 (UTC)


Yeah thats true. You should have your vote. Just watch your say, don't be to loud. Ttogafer (talk) 06:47, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Re: @ Ultimate's page

Dude, I just read that entire discussion today, so I know i didn't miss anything, and it was more u ignorin the other editors..That whole discussion was You vs. The Rest of the Community. TheUltimate3, Deva 27, Simant, ShounenSuki, Saimaroimaru, were all for deletion, with u the only one against..Thought i'd point that out before u go on about conspiracy theories. ..World Cup '10 EEENNNNNGGLLLLAAAANNNNDDDD (AlienGamerTalk) 03:36, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Interesting

I didn't ignore anything. I never do. In fact (more information than you need to know) the fact that I don't ignore things is a major problem I have. I answered you. You responded. It went on until it became clear the discussion was basically going in a large circle where it was clear no one would back down, which is why I went to an unbiased person (Snapper) to make the final decision when he sees fit.

And no, I can't "make your life difficult on the site". But I can block you. It is not something I do when there is no reason. Until now, you've done nothing wrong, but changing the reasons on the delete tag in some halfassed "Oh look, I lost so let me be bitter about it" is one of those reasons.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 03:38, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

No Seriously

You and your fanfiction shit can go to hell. I saw your edits, it sad a good user like you have become a moron.Go to hell.Saimaroimaru (talk) 00:42, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Enough. Both of you.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 10:46, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Block

Let's see what happens. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 05:07, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Databook vs Manga

That's what the Narutopedia Forum is for. Make it there.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The Forum. There should be a link at the "Community" thing at the side of you screen.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 02:26, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


Could you stop leaving go here messages on talkpages? It's really annoying... - SimAnt 02:09, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

I meant the "double redirects" on talkpages, telling me to follow the other redirects. - SimAnt 02:27, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
No i mean on summing shuriken you linked to jiraiya then that redirected me again. - SimAnt 05:30, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Images

The same way put messages in articles.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:12, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

Please read the image policy before adding anymore images to the wikia. - SimAnt 06:27, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
You didn't add rationale or licensing. - SimAnt 07:14, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Earth Mausoleum Dumpling

I haven't translated that article yet, but I'll get right on it ^^ I should have it done within 24 hours of writing this message. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 12:13, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Here you go ^^
Earth Release: Earth Mausoleum Dumpling (土遁・土陵団子, Doton: Doryō Dango)
Ninjutsu, B-rank, Offensive, Short to mid-range (0–10 m)
User: Jirōbō
A lump of ground like the Earth, created with herculean strength!!
With chakra work and superhuman strength, he lifts up the very surface of the Earth and throws it! The lump of earth he is holding is gigantic enough to make Naruto go "that's ridiculous!!" in surprise! Of course, the destructive power is obvious, but even just the visual impact can be enough to make enemies lose their fighting spirits and run away, really making this a very exiting technique!!
→↓With the mass of earth Jirōbō lifted, he covers the entire area in shadow!!
[pictures of Jirōbō slamming his hand on the ground and lifting up a gigantic clump of earth]
--ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 23:38, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion: Summoning Kunai Knife.PNG

Thomas Finlayson, the image Summoning Kunai Knife.PNG which you uploaded has been deleted. We suggest you look over our image policy before you upload another image to make sure you aren't breaking any part of the policy. ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:38, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Recent changes

On the column to your left, near where there is the upload image button, there is a recent changes button. It shows logs of pretty much everything done in the wiki. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:38, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

They usually refer to the change made, they were most likely about the bits of information removed. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:50, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Deleted

Sorry. I assumed they had served whatever purpose they were meant to. I've restored them. ~SnapperTo 18:22, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Unnamed

If you mean a list with all of the jutsu's details given (a la List of Ninja Tools), then I'd rather see most of the jutsu folded into their associated character's article.

If you mean just a list of article names, see:

Acidic Sludge, Adamantine Attacking Chains, Air Gold Dust Protective Wall, Altering Terrain Technique, Animal Cursed Seal, Arm Growth Technique, Armageddon Countdown Clock, Assimilation: Red Poisonous Smokescreen, Ball of Light Technique, Bando's Chakra Armour, Barrier Releasing Technique, Barrier Shattering Technique, Barrier: Reclose Technique, Bat Controlling: Ultrasonic Mind Waves, Beast Sealing Technique, Beast-Human Fury Kicks, Beast-Human Needle Senbon, Beeswax Clone, Bell Barrier Technique, Bell Ring Genjutsu, Blade of Wind Barrage, Blinding Bubbles Technique, Blood Transformation Technique, Bloody Mist Absorption Technique, Bō Shadow Clone Technique, Body Alteration, Body Coating, Body Controlling Technique, Body Elimination Technique, Body Fluid Shedding Technique, Body Recreation Technique, Bubble Clone Technique, Bubble Dome, Bubblegum Ninjutsu, Caged Heat Arson Prison, Carbon Control, Carbon Ring, Carbon Whip, Cat Chakra Claw, Cat Genjutsu, Chakra Absorbing Snakes, Chakra Disguise, Chakra Draining Seal, Chakra Edible Creation, Chakra Enhanced Strength, Chakra Enhancing Music, Chakra Ghost Technique, Chakra Hair Trap Technique, Chakra Levitation Technique, Chakra Lock-On... further results

~SnapperTo 19:09, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

The majority of the unnamed manga jutsu debuted after the databook (403+), so there is a good chance they will be named at some point. Many of the leftovers do not fit the definition of "jutsu", instead being tactics or a component of some other ability. ~SnapperTo 22:57, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Summoning

As I said in that discussion before I stopped following it, you have no evidence that the Hokage are actually doing anything unusual. Neither Hiruzen nor the reader can see what they are doing for the chapter preceding that. For all you know, Orochimaru gave Hashirama some kunai. I cede that Sakon and Fukasaku do something, but for this example you can come up with a number of non-summoning related explanations. ~SnapperTo 01:07, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

If he's willing to put kunai in their skulls, why wouldn't he be willing to give them kunai to ideally put in someone else's skull?
Maybe they are earthen kunai?
Maybe Tobirama did something like the Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique?
Maybe there is a kunai stored under each armor segment?
Maybe Hashirama is able to look daggers at someone?
Maybe the armor has some elaborate defense mechanism that causes it to eject kunai when the wearer is grabbed?
Maybe. ~SnapperTo 04:34, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
I answered your question with potential explanations that do not involve summoning. If you find them any more improbable than summoning, you're way too picky. ~SnapperTo 05:37, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
That's not how the judicial system works; it is not my responsibility to prove I didn't kill my next door neighbor. You are the one who wants to believe all peculiarities in a weekly, fictional series have a valid, in-universe explanation. So, you need to prove it is a summoning and not one of the above explanations or (far more likely) artistic license. ~SnapperTo 06:03, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
I find that interesting. You do not want to believe how the kunai are used is artistic license, yet you admit that the choice to use kunai in the first place is unusual. I submit to you that there is no reasonable explanation for how the kunai entered the equation, summoning or not, and that they were used solely because Hashirama needed to perform some sort of counter that would not be damaging enough to destroy a shadow clone. In other words: artistic license.
Further, the shadow clone is not struck by kunai until after it grabs Hashirama. I argue that Hashirama lacks the proper trajectory, armspan, or even time to throw so many kunai in rapid succession. Pretending this is not artistic license, to be a summoning would require that items can be sealed mid-flight in order to be used as projectiles upon release. This has never been displayed outside of video games.
That you would like to overlook all signs of artistic license is fine. You should remember that not everyone shares your interest and that, at some point, arguing in its favor is no longer beneficial to the wiki. The wiki should stick to facts, not what seems the most plausible choice in a long list of unlikely explanations. ~SnapperTo 06:58, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
There is no compromise. You cannot definitively prove that it is a summoning or any sort of jutsu, and clearly nobody can convince you to the contrary.
As to your last point, I do not understand the relationship between summoning and "unavoidable". ~SnapperTo 18:01, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
The whole thing, really.
Though, to be honest, I don't care that much. It's because of these sorts of entirely pointless arguments that I stopped frequenting forums. ~SnapperTo 18:25, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
I want to stop an endless loop of conjecture. If that is all this conversation is going to be, then I suppose I would like to end it. ~SnapperTo 20:54, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
Your knowledge of Star Wars is lacking. ~SnapperTo 05:03, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
It occurs to me that we might be referring to different edits. Please diff which one you mean so that I can elaborate. ~SnapperTo 16:21, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'm relatively certain that's not the diff you meant. ~SnapperTo 16:26, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
I see we continue to be on different pages. You asked this, to which I responded with this in reference to this. When you responded to that with this, I thought that, because you had earlier asked this, this might actually have been in reference to this. Wishing for clarification over whether you meant that or this, I asked this. Being my cryptic self, I did not in fact clarify which "diffs" I meant to include in our discourse. Understandably, you responded to that in reference to this with this. I, having expected you to indicate either this or this, believed you had copied the wrong URL and responded with this. And this is where we find ourselves.
This edit is me dealing with two identical refs. Rather than have the same ref appear twice in the References section, you can have the same ref appear once while being used twice. To do that, the ref must be given a name. When I made the indicated edit, I chose to choose "Trap, It is a" as the name for no other reason than I find myself witty and adorable and because it loosely applies to the event the ref refers to. "Trap, It is a" is a corrupted version of "It's a trap!", said by Admiral Ackbar in Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. As this is a reasonably well-known line from a reasonably well-known series, I said this.
In what seem to be the unlikely event that you asked this in reference to this, wherein I made two hidden comments, I am not familiar with the anime. Accordingly, the comments are there so that someone who has a better knowledge of what happens in what episode can replace the comments with proper refs, the comments meant to help them know where to look.
Long story short: Hello! I'm Snapper2 and will probably be your host for far into the future. ~SnapperTo 23:30, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Seal Objects not Jutsu

Hey! First off you cant seal a Jutsu ,but you can seal an object. Example you can seal a knife or a chain not a genjutsu, Fang over Fang ,or a Chidori. Iv seen TenTen unseal a fireball once but it was an anime only arc so I cant really say if you can really seal stuff like that. Let me know if this answers your question.---TwinDragons TwinRisingDragons (talk) 16:53, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

He sealed alot of water fused with poison and a shark in the water which technically are object. We have seen Shikamaru do this in the past. I know it seems like people make this stuff up as we go ,but thats just how it is. There has never been an situation where you pull a jutsu out of a scroll. ---TwinDragons TwinRisingDragons (talk)

But the concept still applies. Its water and water can be sealed in a scroll. I agree with you when it comes to these thing here Naruto sometimes contradicts it self and leaves everyone with their own opinion ,but at the end of the day you will never see anyone use a scroll to use a jutsu. It would take to long to pull off when you can just do a hand seal ,plus it seems more like a trap then an jutsu which is pretty simple to comprehend. If you could just store jutsu in a scroll he would have used a higher rank attack then water prison ,but water prison would be easy to seal rather then Water Release: A Thousand Feeding Sharks. If you can show me somewhere that shows a character using a scroll to release a jutsu I will admit Im wrong. Good Luck. I do feel bad because its seems like everyone says your wrong about this but I really do believe this is what most of the higher up think.---TwinDragons TwinRisingDragons (talk) 07:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Exploding paper bombs are considered ninja tools don't get it confused you cant pull a jutsu out of a scroll. Plus taking it to the talk page will only get us laughed at. I dont want people around here thinking Im a 12 year old. I dont mind talking on my page but its not a big enough issue to take to the talk page. Do you understand about the scrolls yet? ---TwinDragons TwinRisingDragons (talk) 23:36, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

its totally OK. It seems that you really want a concrete answer to your question ,but I'm not sure if that's possible. Scrolls are a tricky thing. They have been used for so many different things that one could argue that their are different types of scrolls.----TwinDragons TwinRisingDragons (talk) 04:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Renaming

What do you mean by renaming a site? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:27, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think that in wikis case, the old site becomes a redirect to the new one, with articles being imported. No idea how it is done though. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:18, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
What you meant to ask me is how to move an article. Just click on the "move" on the top of the articles to move it to a new name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:32, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


Yes, no problem. I also didn't like the old images. There are still some images for changing and soon I will change them too. I looked the Character section, the Jutsu section, the Team section and the Tool section. The hard thing to do will be the Country section. :)--Donatelo (talk) 00:35, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Two images maximum will be alright, but I will try it with one image. :) I meant that it will be hard to find them in the anime. One by one I will try to find a decent picture for all of them. By the way the images for the lands are all kind a same. There are no such big difference - trees, rivers, mountains and such things. They are not so important, but I like to have an image for all of them. :) --Donatelo (talk) 00:50, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Reaction to last comment

You do know that they may try to just shout you down again, or make their own ninjutsu math formula which may contain threats and/or insults, or something like that. Even if they do give a calmer response, they may just ignore it and focus on the fact that you agree that proving something is not there is difficult and imply that means you have agree with them all along, right? GoldenTopaz (talk) 01:29, October 14, 2010 (UTC)

Flaming Oil Absorption

You are right, because the oil completely vanished. However, I've also thinked ahead. If you see the Databook description for Toad Oil Bullet provided on the page, it's chakra converted into oil, much like a nature. So in the end, Sage Art: Goemon is composed of Fire chakra, Wind chakra, and "Oil chakra." --GoDai (talk) 08:58, November 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, again, I'm not sure if Kishimoto was really thinking too deeply about the lowering of the land, as that might be what it simply is to him. I myself am thinking it's something like either soil compaction, some sort of push that would create a rise somewhere else, or Kishi is guessing there is some room underground to allow for the shifting of earth. Naruto's world isn't the same as ours, after all. Also, I think the only way to create something is to turn chakra into it, and therefore the law of conservation of mass isn't broken at all. Earth Release: Earth Flow Rampart also mentions using chakra to increase the amount. However, I don't think turning matter that was matter from the beginning into chakra is possible, at least by common means, because average ninja cannot just put their palm on the ground and absorb it to use as chakra.

Oh, and on the oil, I'm not quite sure about that, but I found it during my research. I discovered it while removing paper, ink, posion gas, and oil from my list of possible Natures, because they had ranks (B, B, B, C respectively). I judged that Konan simply transformed and Sai just manipulated ink like Gaara with his sand, but it was interesting to note Shizune and Jiraiya used techniques involving changing chakra into the material. Seeing how the Five Basic Natures are translated as the "5 major nature transformations," I do see the possiblity of there being a whole ton of "minor" nature transformations, as converting chakra into oil is basically that. I haven't had the chance to look into that yet. --GoDai (talk) 05:08, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well then again we would want to think on the level of a person who has only the most basic ideas of science. No offense at all to Kishi, but he isn't the most brilliant person in fields of science, shown in the wording of Iron Sand World Order. I "excel" in science myself but here I'm more of a philosophical thinker, as all that is usually used in Naruto is basic, common knowledge of science and a whole lot of added elements such as symbolism, supernatural abilities, and most importantly, Kishi's imagination and point of view poured into the world of Naruto.

And now back to the point. I'm quite confused with what you mean by "dissipate"... I myself have established a few ideas about chakra. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll assume you are speaking of when the tranformed chakra, such as Earth, loses its energy over a period of time, and becomes a "a pre-existing natural element." For that, I am really not sure, because we can then assume most of the battlegrounds the Nauto characters have fought on may have been used for previous shinobi battles. In that case, there are chances the surrounding environment, particularly Earth and Water, may have been produced by shinobi in the past. I think there's no real point in judging this, and I don't think Kishi will consider that either. However, now that you made me think about it, if I really had to make a conclusion, I would say the produced element will disappear over time, the chakra dissipating and becoming excess heat or something similar. I'm guessing this will be really slow, as converted chakra obviously stays converted for a significant period of time. So therefore, anything changed by chakra will slowly lose its change. In the case of increased amount of Earth, it would slowly return into its original amount. I think of converted chakra as chakra that is "disguised" by another element's appearance and properties, and this "disguise" will wear off unlike natural materials. That's my idea, at least. I usually try to "become Kishi" when I do these things, using past events to try and think like him. What I just mentioned is my idea, but I wouldn't worry about it. --GoDai (talk) 07:58, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm maybe. Nice suggestion. I'm trying to organize my ideas at this very moment, in my already-existing theory page. I'll see if I can fit this in. Also, I would also like to see some scientific improvements when he goes on a hiatus to "research," but of course I wouldn't be so disappointed with Kishi for not minding these mistakes. He was honest with not being good at it, so I don't care that much. I can make my own conclusions, and in this kind of manga, sometimes it's better when the author leaves spaces or mistakes for the reader to find their own solutions to, even if they are unintentional. For me, at least. Anyway I hope I helped. --GoDai (talk) 08:51, December 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hahaha if you insist. I'll do it when I have time. I personally just saw it as my own way of viewing Naruto, but you may be right in that it could help others. --GoDai (talk) 03:55, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


Beyond these statistics, Are there any others?

Shinobi/Kunoichi Top Stats
Hiruzen Sarutobi 34
Jiraiya 35,5
Tsunade 35
Naruto Uzumaki 26
Sasuke Uchiha 31,5
Sakura Haruno 26
Kakashi Hatake 34,5
Yamato 31
Sai 27,5
Neji Hyūga 27
Rock Lee 22
Tenten 20,5
Maito Gai 31,5
Ino Yamanaka 21
Shikamaru Nara 24
Chōji Akimichi 20,5
Asuma Sarutobi 32,5
Kiba Inuzuka 22
Shino Aburame 22
Hinata Hyūga 21,5
Kurenai Yūhi 29,5
Genma Shiranui 27
Iruka Umino 26
Anko Mitarashi 25
Hayate Gekkō 24,5
Ibiki Morino 27,5
Ebisu 25
Hiashi Hyūga 30
Hizashi Hyūga 29,5
Orochimaru 35
Kabuto Yakushi 32
Zaku Abumi 14
Dosu Kinuta 16
Kimimaro Kaguya 30,5
Tayuya 24,5
Kidōmaru 25
Jirōbō 23,5
Sakon 25
Ukon 24,5
Temari 24,5
Gaara 29
Kankurō 26,5
Baki 29,5
Yashamaru 22,5
Chiyo 32
Haku 21
Zabuza Momochi 30,5
Kakuzu 32,5
Deidara 32
Hidan 31,5
Sasori 34,5
Kisame Hoshigaki 32,5
Itachi Uchiha 35,5

Leodix | My Talk | Contributions 05:31, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Dan, Obito Uchiha, Rin, & Shizune. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 07:02, December 16, 2010 (UTC)


I was wondering if you care to disclose any other "friends" you share computers with? SimAnt 20:35, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that you haven't answered me yet? SimAnt 21:58, December 26, 2010 (UTC)


Since you intend to keep lying about your sock puppets, I have blocked them all infinitely and you have received a six month block. You should feel proud though, I am going to make a sock puppet policy now because of you. If you have any complaints about this block, I suggest you take them up with wikia, since your excuse is that "we all share the same opinion, edit on the same computer, and support each other". SimAnt 06:37, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

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